From nobody Sun Jul 1 02:08:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0E2130E29; Sun, 1 Jul 2018 02:08:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153043611378.27444.17648440843328553974@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 02:08:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 09:08:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement Authors : Peter Psenak Ketan Jivan Talaulikar Wim Henderickx Padma Pillay-Esnault Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-07-01 Abstract: Every OSPF interface is assigned an identifier, Interface ID, which uniquely identifies the interface on the router. In some cases it is useful to know the Interface ID assigned by the adjacent router on its side of the adjacency (Remote Interface ID). This draft describes the extensions to OSPF link-local signalling to advertise the Local Interface Identifier. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 1 15:54:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6229D130E8A; Sun, 1 Jul 2018 15:54:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153048566035.27357.3241478538453160488@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 15:54:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-05.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2018 22:54:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Yang Data Model for OSPF SR (Segment Routing) Protocol Authors : Derek Yeung Yingzhen Qu Jeffrey Zhang Ing-Wher Chen Acee Lindem Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-05.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2018-07-01 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage OSPF Segment Routing. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 2 01:38:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9ED130F04; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 01:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=alibaba-inc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSHHluZMK55T; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 01:37:49 -0700 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YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3NwcmluZzwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48ZGl2ICBzdHlsZT0ibGluZS1oZWln aHQ6MjAuMHB4O2NsZWFyOmJvdGg7Ij48YnIgPjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2Pg== ------=ALIBOUNDARY_36405_529a6940_5b39e456_c7cca-- From nobody Mon Jul 2 08:18:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640A512777C; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 08:18:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153054469638.16408.13529025998984671774@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 08:18:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-21.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 15:18:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for IS-IS protocol Authors : Stephane Litkowski Derek Yeung Acee Lindem Jeffrey Zhang Ladislav Lhotka Filename : draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-21.txt Pages : 104 Date : 2018-07-02 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage IS-IS protocol on network elements. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-21 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-21 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-21 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 2 10:01:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1DE127598; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 10:01:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153055087821.16504.13575706386055556293@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 10:01:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 17:01:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Routing with Reverse Metric Authors : Naiming Shen Shane Amante Mikael Abrahamsson Filename : draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-07-02 Abstract: This document describes a mechanism to allow IS-IS routing to quickly and accurately shift traffic away from either a point-to-point or multi-access LAN interface during network maintenance or other operational events. This is accomplished by signaling adjacent IS-IS neighbors with a higher reverse metric, i.e., the metric towards the signaling IS-IS router. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 2 13:31:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D78A13130C; Mon, 2 Jul 2018 13:31:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153056348924.16480.11669100773997902496@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:31:29 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-12.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2018 20:31:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Yang Data Model for OSPF Protocol Authors : Derek Yeung Yingzhen Qu Jeffrey Zhang Ing-Wher Chen Acee Lindem Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-12.txt Pages : 109 Date : 2018-07-02 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage OSPF. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 3 03:40:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914C3130E34; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 03:39:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBF4JQ1beWAe; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 03:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C9A9130E4A; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 03:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7C604695BAD8F; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:39:48 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.210) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:39:50 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:39:39 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUEgftvbjq5MWnD06UoPCF/D0SYKR9SGkQ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 10:39:38 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 10:39:57 -0000 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153063361759.4893.14001099780675025968.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 09:00:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] lsr - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 102 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 16:00:26 -0000 Dear Acee Lindem, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. lsr Session 1 (2:30 requested) Monday, 16 July 2018, Morning Session I 0930-1200 Room Name: Van Horne size: 130 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/sessions/lsr.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Link State Routing Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Acee Lindem Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 70 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: idr rtgwg rtgarea lsvr rift spring Second Priority: bess bier netmod People who must be present: Acee Lindem Christian Hopps Alvaro Retana Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jul 3 09:13:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F930130EAC; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 09:13:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.512 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GnOWwK1K-JOJ; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E01D413103B; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 09:08:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8950; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1530634139; x=1531843739; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=Lqt5av9D4ITVgkaw3bF/B7UuAcaIZYtt6Uho0BjJx/s=; b=VZKBNjtJZpyBBjzN49tZdaqGT9sAxBZEqgcIR7GVlYmma107VWjpvFDa qLz1RXA7kyDo7orn1/uQI1B9uHLleVp8hjusESv1pXLU6yIf6CK9GkniG 5wuBwp/pHawRarT7lUyBGYhd3lqv4MqjfQP2Ie9Zp7Le70cvAiW9V53Pq g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DLAACPnjtb/5JdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYMbLmJ/KAqDb4gEjD+CB5UoFIFmCxgNhAFGAheCAiE0GAE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQECAQECbRwMhTYBAQEBAwEBIRE6CQIMBAIBBgIRBAEBAwIjAwICAiULFAE?= =?us-ascii?q?ICAIEAQ0FgyABgX8PjR+bSIIciE2BOoELh2KCFYEOASeCaIMYAQECAQGBJF6?= =?us-ascii?q?CWzGCJAKFVoFqhRGFFYdlCQKGBIVYg0GBQB4lg0mIC4d7gjqHLQIREwGBJB0?= =?us-ascii?q?4gVJwFRohKgGCPgmCQ4hIhT5vAY9egRoBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,304,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="138110348" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 03 Jul 2018 16:08:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w63G8vRe009298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:08:57 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:08:56 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:08:56 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Lizhenbin , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUEgftvbjq5MWnD06UoPCF/D0SYKR9SGkQgABj0AA= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:08:56 +0000 Message-ID: <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing 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3 11:46:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A0C130DE7; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:46:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9blrf_cj8FL3; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E854130DD8; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 11:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1faQJJ-0007n3-8Z; Tue, 03 Jul 2018 18:45:57 +0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 11:45:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: Lizhenbin , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: 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k65-v6sm735345ywd.13.2018.07.03.14.15.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Jul 2018 14:15:08 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.e.1.180613 Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 14:15:06 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Lizhenbin , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" Message-ID: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 21:15:13 -0000 Robin, Pretty much same comment as Acee - I'm not clear as to why... Protocol YANG models developed in the last years clearly provide much bette= r and more scalable approach to what has been proposed in the draft, since w= e are talking is-is - look at notifications in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg= . How do you propose to corelate operational state to configuration? gRPC provides high performance RPC framework to streaming the telemetry da= ta that is structured, easy to consume and extend.=20 I'm not going to go into technical discussion, however would appreciate you= r response as to why NMP (please do not restate the points in the section 4 = of the draft, they are quite incorrect)=20 Thanks! Cheers, Jeff =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 09:21, "Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: Hi Robin,=20 I'm not arguing to deprecate BMP. What I am arguing is that the fact th= at BMP was created 15 years ago doesn't necessarily mean we should create an= analogous IMP for IS-IS given the current IETF OPS technologies and the fac= t that faster link speeds and Moore's law facilitate deployment of these new= OPS technologies. Anyway, I looked at the agenda and I will definitely atte= nd GROW on Wednesday afternoon for the discussion.=20 Thanks, Acee=20 =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 6:40 AM, "Lizhenbin" wrote: =20 Hi Acee, Thank for your attention to the new draft. Please refer to my reply= inline. =20 Best Regards, Robin =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lin= dem (acee) Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 9:24 PM To: Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) ; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft= -gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt =20 Hi Yunan, Shunwan, and Zhenbin,=20 =20 What are the advantages of inventing a new protocol over just using= YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI?=20 [Robin] In the draft we simply mention the difference between NMP a= nd protocols you mentioned for the management plane. Though there is maybe s= ome overlap between the two types of protocols, the protocols you mentioned = is not enough for monitoring the control protocol. For example, would we lik= e to use YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI to export the packets of contro= l protocols such as update message of BGP and/or ISIS PDU, etc. for the purp= ose of monitoring? =20 =20 Operators and vendors are doing this anyway. A second alternative w= ould be to listen passively in IS-IS (or OSPF for that matter). Why would an= yone want this?=20 [Robin] In fact we tried the method you proposed. From our point of= view, the basic design principle should be that the monitoring entity shoul= d be decoupled from the monitored entity. This is to avoid following cases: 1. The failure of operation of the control protocol may affect the = monitoring at the same time. 2. The limitation of the control protocol will also have effect on = the monitoring. For example, for the method of listening passively, if there= are multiple hops between the listener and the network devices, it has to s= et up a tunnel as the virtual link for direct connection. But the TCP-based = monitoring protocol need not care about it.=20 =20 =20 As far as where it belongs, we have a rather full agenda in LSR so = I don't think we want to devote time to it there at IETF 102. =20 [Robin] Though the WG the draft should belong to is not determined = yet, we think the work belongs to OPS area and send the notice to GROW WG an= d OPSAWG. We also applied for the presentation in the two WGs. We should hav= e copied the notice to the related WGs of RTG area. So the LSR WG and RTGWG = WG mailing list are added. More comments and suggestions are welcome. =20 Thanks, Acee =20 =20 =20 On 7/2/18, 8:20 AM, "GROW on behalf of Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Techno= logy Research Dept. NW)" wrote: =20 Dear GROW & OPSAWG WGs, =20 We have proposed a Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) for the co= ntrol plane OAM. NMP for ISIS is illustrated in this draft to showcase the b= enefit and operation of NMP. Yet, we haven't decided which WG it belongs to.= =20 =20 =20 Comments and suggestions are very welcome!=20 =20 Thank you! =20 =20 Yunan Gu Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd =20 -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org= ]=20 Sent: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 20:07 To: Zhuangshunwan ; Lizhenbin ; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) Subject: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitor= ing-protol-00.txt =20 =20 A new version of I-D, draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.tx= t has been successfully submitted by Yunan Gu and posted to the I= ETF repository. =20 Name: draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol Revision: 00 Title: Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) Document date: 2018-07-02 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 15 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gu-n= etwork-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gu-netwo= rk-mornitoring-protol/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-network-mo= rnitoring-protol-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gu-= network-mornitoring-protol =20 =20 Abstract: To enable automated network OAM (Operations, administration = and management), the availability of network protocol running st= atus information is a fundamental step. In this document, a netw= ork monitoring protocol (NMP) is proposed to provision the infor= mation related to running status of IGP (Interior Gateway Protocol)= and other control protocols. It can facilitate the network troubleshooting of control protocols in a network domain. T= ypical network issues are illustrated as the usecases of NMP for IS= IS to showcase the necessity of NMP. Then the operations and the = message formats of NMP for ISIS are defined. In this document ISIS = is used as the illustration protocol, and the case of OSPF and other= control protocols will be included in the future version. =20 =20 = =20 =20 =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time = of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. =20 The IETF Secretariat =20 _______________________________________________ GROW mailing list GROW@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow =20 =20 _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =20 From nobody Tue Jul 3 17:51:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3551130E1D; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 17:51:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=castlepoint.net header.b=XG3Ccque; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=HEDn/Jty Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pj5bbkIT432i; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 17:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5407F130E77; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 17:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B797420F12; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 20:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 03 Jul 2018 20:51:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=castlepoint.net; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=ypSDOp06I/CjGi Axm+YgQ1DV6loDaHyXmdehPuqDcws=; b=XG3Ccquej+3/APETY0wepeRNXKUw9K j7ilcwWmeSzALetnMpkdc+WBuzuPgq6mVQqHak6A7v4YRbL1X66ZdI+VZKGwq3qs t/gFBtMe7kl5rqn69Ew9yzF4CSVc2LtWy9XGufqDHs7eink1gwnH+MkBHfNvyZ8R 4MxEiaaVDdBC4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=ypSDOp 06I/CjGiAxm+YgQ1DV6loDaHyXmdehPuqDcws=; b=HEDn/JtyAXhbplICDusIWg 0g0t3GIzUluXYnZuUMBPpuoS+29Ffeb2x+gnPbNIKlSJbkBsxUkIhX7SZKLZO6td zmcTTQ5iIbcCLWfXlFftrfsGr11u1HzV9tT9hnLpDxbilMpq5dCjzrJXwryQiA9U 840I4inZyvbhjxIdTTBWbuuodon+OCIiuShvCD0UZEKJ+MRENCQSuXDGkKN2A8aQ CIFzXSWw5e4g8FPh3CMRbrVYOrZNxd12aurteF7Zy0bWfdVnVBI4Bte0HEKcZ1CK xOwn8E7wpk8wNR7MKTRkBK3sXHBwKRnl3TBATbgpzCTp3/Q1rFm9qZBMEgFSdq0A == X-ME-Proxy: X-ME-Sender: Received: from [10.0.1.23] (c-67-174-103-115.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.174.103.115]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E0A52E47DC; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 20:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii X-Apple-Auto-Saved: 1 X-Apple-Mail-Plain-Text-Draft: yes From: Shane Amante X-Apple-Mail-Remote-Attachments: YES X-Apple-Base-Url: x-msg://109/ In-Reply-To: <87in6f3exj.fsf@chopps.org> X-Apple-Windows-Friendly: 1 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 12:31:22 -0600 Cc: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric@ietf.org, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" X-Apple-Mail-Signature: SKIP_SIGNATURE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <204CB4E4-5B28-4E2D-9955-D7800CA4226A@castlepoint.net> References: <87in6f3exj.fsf@chopps.org> X-Uniform-Type-Identifier: com.apple.mail-draft To: Christian Hopps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR poll for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-10 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2018 00:51:50 -0000
Apologies for the delay in responding.  I am not personally aware of IPR related to draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-10 and Apple will continue to abide by RFC 8179.

Thanks,

-shane


On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote:

Hi Authors,

Can you please respond (including the mailing list) indicating if you are aware of any IPR relating to draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric?

Thanks,
Chris.

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From nobody Tue Jul 3 18:59:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BF4130E9B; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:59:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyAoWamP-IIR; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73AC1127598; Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7E734B64C4216; Wed, 4 Jul 2018 02:58:57 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.40) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Wed, 4 Jul 2018 02:58:58 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by dggemm423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Wed, 4 Jul 2018 09:58:54 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Randy Bush , "Acee Lindem (acee)" CC: "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUEgftvbjq5MWnD06UoPCF/D0SYKR9SGkQgABj0AD//6XCAIAA/p7Q Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 01:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F5E8@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2018 01:59:03 -0000 Hi Randy, Since BMP is promoted in GROW WG, the work has much similarity with BMP. So= we applied for the presentation here. Best Regards, Robin -----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 2:46 AM To: Acee Lindem (acee) Cc: Lizhenbin ; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; lsr@i= etf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-netw= ork-mornitoring-protol-00.txt i am confused as why this is in grow. it's protocol. randy From nobody Wed Jul 4 20:34:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79964130E94; Wed, 4 Jul 2018 20:34:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] 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boundary="----=ALIBOUNDARY_44258_56241940_5b3d91b3_12aec5" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?Comments_on_draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 03:34:22 -0000 ------=ALIBOUNDARY_44258_56241940_5b3d91b3_12aec5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLAoKSSBoYXZlIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgY29tbWVudHMgYW5kIGhvcGUgaXQnIHMgbm90 IHRvbyBsYXRlLgoKMS4gSW4gZmFjdCwgUkZDNjc5MCBkb2Vzbid0IHJlcXVpcmUgaW50ZXJtZWRp YXRlIHJvdXRlcnMgdG8gaGF2ZSB0aGUgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSBvZiBwZXJmb3JtaW5nIEVMLWJhc2Vk IGxvYWQtYmFsYW5jaW5nIG1lY2hhbmlzbS4gSW5zdGVhZCwgaXQganVzdCBwcm92aWRlcyBhbiBl bnRyb3B5IGluIHRoZSBNUExTIHBhY2tldCB3aGljaCBtYXkgYmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGZvciBpbnRl cm1lZGlhdGUgcm91dGVycyB0byBwZXJmb3JtIGxvYWQtYmFsYW5jaW5nLiAgSW4gY29udHJhc3Qs 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NW)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUEgftvbjq5MWnD06UoPCF/D0SYKR9SGkQgABj0ACAAsYxUA== Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 10:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B24130EC1; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:48:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PrttrygRDhEk; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 725D9126DBF; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id EB887275D7E6B; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:48:51 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.212) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 11:48:53 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 18:48:41 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Jeff Tantsura , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUExLxzpXvqzyrikSNWqEPCnbxK6SAcbFQ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 10:48:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 10:48:59 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NW)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUEgftvbjq5MWnD06UoPCF/D0SYKR9SGkQgABj0ACAAsYxUIAAvX6A Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 21:49:01 +0000 Message-ID: <29C6DD4F-507B-4309-83DB-66B2D9328ECD@cisco.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for 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15.00.1320.000; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 18:03:33 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Lizhenbin , Jeff Tantsura , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFE3VtpVbllBnyEqcvQyKalT/p6SBL2oA Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 22:03:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 22:03:39 -0000 SGkgUm9iaW4sIA0KDQpJIGtub3cgZm9yIGEgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhcHBs aWNhdGlvbnMgd3JpdHRlbiB0aGF0IGRvIHBhc3NpdmUgbW9uaXRvcmluZyB1c2luZyBJUy1JUyBh bmQgc2ltcGx5IGFkdmVydGlzaW5nIHlvdXJzZWxmIGluIG92ZXJsb2FkIG1vZGUuIEFkZGl0aW9u YWxseSwgZ2l2ZW4gdGhhdCBhbGwgcm91dGVzIGluIGFuIGFyZWEgaGF2ZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBMU0RC LCB5b3UgZG9uJ3QgcmVhbGx5IGhhdmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGFzIEJHUC4gDQoN CldpdGggcmVzcGVjdCB0byBzY2FsYWJpbGl0eSwgSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoZSBhZHZhbnRhZ2Ugb2Yg dGhlIFlBTkcgbW9kZWxzIGlzIG1vcmUgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YgY29uc3VtcHRpb24gYW5kIGhhdmlu ZyBhIHNpbmdsZSBuZXR3b3JrIHByb2dyYW1tYWJpbGl0eSBwYXJhZGlnbSByYXRoZXIgdW5pcXVl IHBlci1wcm90b2NvbCBtb25pdG9yaW5nLiBBZGRpdGlvbmFsbHksIFlBTkcsIE5FVENPTkYsIFJF 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Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xzcg0KICAgICAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KICAgIEdST1cgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0DQogICAgR1JPV0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZ3Jvdw0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Jul 5 15:19:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9436612777C; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 15:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GvK-ush0ugCi; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 15:19:30 -0700 (PDT) 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draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHUFBEZ4EJ3HXR8sUadOhOWKPsIEqSBKPaQ Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 22:19:26 +0000 Message-ID: <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131OPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 22:19:33 -0000 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[47.36.65.40]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h71-v6sm3752928ith.5.2018.07.05.16.48.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:48:41 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.e.1.180613 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:48:39 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: , "=?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmO?= (=?UTF-8?B?5LmJ5YWI?=)" , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label References: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3613654121_139486885" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 23:48:45 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3613654121_139486885 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 Please see inline (MSD section). Hope this clarifies, thanks! =20 Cheers, Jeff =20 =20 =20 [jeff] both IGP drafts have identical description of the BMI-MSD: =E2=80=9CBase MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS labe= ls a node is capable of imposing, including all service/transport/special la= bels.=E2=80=9D PCEP draft supports only a subset of overall MSD functionality and in gener= al it is expected that this info would come from IGPs(BGP-LS). However the functoriality provided by PCEP is inline with the =C2=A0BMI-MSD def= inition in the IGP drafts, at the node granularity only though.=20 =20 =20 3. Section 5 introduces the MSD concept. I wonder whether this concept is a= ligned with the MSD concept as defined in the PCEP-SR draft or the MSD conce= pt as defined in the IGP-MSD draft. In PCEP-SR draft, it said " The "Maximum SID Depth" (1 octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label stack depth in the context of this document) that a PCC is capable of imposing on a packet. =20 In the IGP-MSD draft, it said " MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry), called Base MSD is used to signal the total number of SIDs a node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation element/controller. " =20 If I understand it correctly, the MSD in this draft=3D=3Dthe MSD in PCEP-SR dra= ft=3D=3Dthe Base MSD (i.e., the MSD of type 1), No? =20 [SLI] Today, the two IGP drafts does not seem to agree on the definition ISIS says:=E2=80=9D Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number o= f MPLS labels a node is capable of imposing, including all service/transport/special labels.=E2=80=9D OSPF says:=E2=80=9D MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of= SIDs a node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation element/controller and is only relevant to the part of the stack created as the result of the computation.=E2=80=9D =20 MSD is just MSD is defines a maximum number of labels to be pushed. This is= the definition we use and it is compliant with the one used in PCEP-SR: =E2=80=9CThe "Maximum SID Depth" (1 octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label stack depth in context of this document) that a PCC is capable of imposing on a packet.=E2=80=9D =20 As we also say: =E2=80=9CThis includes any kind of labels (service, entropy, tran= sport...).=E2=80=9D, we are compliant with the BMI-MSD defined in IS-IS. =20 =20 =20 Best regards, Xiaohu ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ =20 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. =20 This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf= .org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls=20 --B_3613654121_139486885 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

&n= bsp;

Please see inline (MSD section).

Hope this clarifies, thanks!

&= nbsp;

Cheers,

<= /div>

Jeff

 =

 

=

 =

[jeff] both IGP drafts h= ave identical description of the BMI-MSD:

=E2=80=9CBase MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) sig= nals the total number of MPLS labels a node is capable of imposing, includin= g all service/transport/special labels.=E2=80=9D

PCEP draft supports only a subset of ove= rall MSD functionality and in general it is expected that this info would co= me from IGPs(BGP-LS).

However the functoriality provided by PCEP is inline with the= =C2=A0BMI-MSD definition in the IGP drafts, at the node granularity only though= .

 

 

3. Section 5 introduces the MSD concept. I wonder whether this concep= t is aligned with the MSD concept as defined in the PCEP-SR draft or the MSD concept as defined in the IGP-MSD dra= ft. In PCEP-SR draft, it said "

The "Maximum SID Depth" (1
   octet) field (MSD) specifies the ma= ximum number of SIDs (MPLS label
   stack depth in the context of this document) that a =
PCC is capable of
&nbs=
p;  imposing on a packet.
 
In the IGP-MSD draft, =
it said "
MSD of type 1 (=
IANA Registry), called Base MSD is used to signal the
   total number of SIDs a node is =
capable of imposing, to be used by a
   path computation element/controller.  "=
;
 
<=
span style=3D'color:black'>If I understand it correctly, the MSD in this draft=
=3D=3Dthe MSD in PCEP-SR draft=3D=3Dthe Base MSD (i.e., the MSD of type 1), No?
 
[SLI] Today, the two IGP drafts does not seem to agree on the de=
finition
ISIS says:=E2=80=9D Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of MPLS<=
/span>
   labels a node is capable of =
imposing, including all
   servic=
e/transport/special labels.=E2=80=9D
OSPF says:=E2=80=9D MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the num=
ber of SIDs a
   node is capabl=
e of imposing, to be used by a path computation
   element/controller and is only relevant to the part of the=
 stack
   created as the result o=
f the computation.=E2=80=9D
 
MSD is just MSD is defines a maximum number of labels to =
be pushed. This is the definition we use and it is compliant with the one us=
ed in PCEP-SR:
=E2=80=9CThe &q=
uot;Maximum SID Depth" (1
 &nbs=
p; octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label
   stack depth in context of this docu=
ment) that a PCC is capable of
  =
 imposing on a packet.=E2=80=9D
 
As we also say: =E2=80=9CThis includes any kind of labels (=
service, entropy, transport...).=E2=80=9D, we are compliant with the BMI-MSD defin=
ed in IS-IS.
 
 
 

Best regards,

Xiaohu

____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes =
peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doiv=
ent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans au=
torisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointe=
s. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, defo=
rme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
Thi=
s message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged informa=
tion that may be protected by law;
they should not be d=
istributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If yo=
u have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete thi=
s message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered=
, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or fals=
ified.
Thank you.
______________=
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--B_3613654121_139486885-- From nobody Thu Jul 5 17:14:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD7C130DDB; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 17:14:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GAuYu3afIzfq; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 17:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89D70130DC9; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 17:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fbEOT-0006ne-9Z; Fri, 06 Jul 2018 00:14:37 +0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Lizhenbin Cc: GMO Crops , opsawg@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 00:14:43 -0000 robin, > It is not described clearly in the draft that reusing BMP is also a > possible option for monitoring IGP. We will refine the draft. if i could also use bmp for monitoring dns, smtp, and ntp, i could stop using nagios! i think what acee is trying to say is that "B" in BMP does not stand for Bypass. randy From nobody Thu Jul 5 18:04:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1816E130FBD; Thu, 5 Jul 2018 18:04:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=alibaba-inc.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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09:25:08 +0800 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:25:08 +0800 From: "=?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?=" To: "Jeff Tantsura" , "stephane.litkowski" , "mpls@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Reply-To: "=?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?=" Message-ID: <2520eff6-aafa-42af-99e7-0374f0dd027b.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> X-Mailer: [Alimail-Mailagent revision 268][W4_5295521][v5ForWebDing][Safari] MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, In-Reply-To: x-aliyun-mail-creator: W4_5295521_v5ForWebDing_QvNTW96aWxsYS81LjAgKE1hY2ludG9zaDsgSW50ZWwgTWFjIE9TIFggMTBfMTJfNikgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNjA0LjUuNiAoS0hUTUwsIGxpa2UgR2Vja28pIFZlcnNpb24vMTEuMC4zIFNhZmFyaS82MDQuNS42La Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=ALIBOUNDARY_2649_4af24940_5b3ec4f4_148547" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] 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Tantsura" , "stephane.litkowski" , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHUFMhGwHOQIGJUOk2f1ocjobR1gKSBdVTg Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:23:16 +0000 Message-ID: <92153050d9b946d28070a394a13592ff@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <2520eff6-aafa-42af-99e7-0374f0dd027b.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <2520eff6-aafa-42af-99e7-0374f0dd027b.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.82.219] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_92153050d9b946d28070a394a13592ffXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on 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--_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAC8E0F80NKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Fri Jul 6 00:15:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7039D130DE2 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2NbEieL7Yd5I for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 00:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com 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2018 15:41:33 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Randy Bush , "Jeff Tantsura" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFKwNGJxmvGzFU0mBKic4v/AlZ6SBzPPA Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 07:41:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: 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ICAgIA0KICAgICAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KICAgICAgICBMc3IgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgICAgIExzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAg ICAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xzcg0KICAgICAgICAN CiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0KICAgIEdST1cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgR1JPV0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZ3Jvdw0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Fri Jul 6 01:23:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C75130E8D; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 01:23:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] 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([fe80::b08d:5b75:e92c:a45f%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:22:58 +0200 From: To: =?utf-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?= , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHUFBEZ4EJ3HXR8sUadOhOWKPsIEqSBKPaQgAAX8QCAAJpxsA== Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 08:22:57 +0000 Message-ID: <14859_1530865379_5B3F26E2_14859_202_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F03AD@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <43768014-1ce8-43d0-9f9b-04eba6f87904.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>, <7608_1530829167_5B3E996F_7608_323_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F0131@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F03ADOPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 08:23:05 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B1F03ADOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 W1hpYW9odV0gWWVzIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIG5lZWQgZm9yIHRoZW0gdG8gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlIHRoZSBF TEMuIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgbmVlZCBmb3IgdGhlbSB0byBhZHZlcnRpc2UgdGhlIGNh cGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgcmVhZGluZyB0aGUgbWF4aW11bSBsYWJlbCBzdGFjayBkZXB0aCBhbmQgcGVy Zm9ybWluZyBFTC1iYXNlZCBsb2FkLWJhbGFuY2luZywgaWYgSSB1bmRlcnN0b29kIGl0IGNvcnJl Y3RseS4gSU1ITywgaXQgc2VlbXMgYmV0dGVyIHRoYXQgdGhlIEVMQyBhbmQgdGhlIEVSTEQgYXJl IGRlZmluZWQgYXMgdHdvIGluZGVwZW5kZW50IGNhcGFiaWxpdGllcywgaW4gb3RoZXIgd29yZHMs IHRoZSBFUkxEIHNlbWFudGljcyBzaG91bGQgbm90IGluY2x1ZGUgdGhlIEVMQyBzZW1hbnRpY3Mg 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(amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aJlUy4qgxJg3; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x22c.google.com (mail-pl0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B4DA130E03; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id s24-v6so2624149plq.6; Fri, 06 Jul 2018 02:32:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=uryqkUNSTGcEp8neLWPHnly5mz9bII2J545GKJDLEi4=; b=mvmCKfWg+AMj4BEPpSwjZZhegAqk+8o7/RmMKFTesfrIcfSBsihz/aji5AdfPLfWXp jigMLnMZObMqBEjKOPWAJuFedLVj5QaRbBO9w7rQx4j9dMDp1aswKrEOIR5LAmiVq/H0 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AAOMgpdLEOq41hFPzLZw/Pa6TYsOp2jEfbUQnByuk0gWNh8dK53IimVgLpJSlba11rF8bejsaFRhEPSYD1zQxKJiwKg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:1007:: with SMTP id b7-v6mr9478089pla.277.1530869528755; Fri, 06 Jul 2018 02:32:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 2002:a17:90a:37e7:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:32:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:32:08 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Vy9SusSFuyJBIgqKn49wEBv1Oks Message-ID: To: Randy Bush Cc: Lizhenbin , lsr@ietf.org, GMO Crops , opsawg@ietf.org, RTGWG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075815b05705156b7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:32:11 -0000 --00000000000075815b05705156b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8BWhy anyone would need BMP wrapper to monitor IGP ? BGP has been recently polluted enough that it works just perfectly fine without a new draft/rfc or single line of code change to act as IGP monitoring protocol. Just enable AFI 16388 / SAFI 71 as described in RFC7752 (possibly with many additional follow-up extensions being currently cooked) and ride on. r. On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:14 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > robin, > > > It is not described clearly in the draft that reusing BMP is also a > > possible option for monitoring IGP. We will refine the draft. > > if i could also use bmp for monitoring dns, smtp, and ntp, i could > stop using nagios! > > i think what acee is trying to say is that "B" in BMP does not stand > for Bypass. > > randy > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > --00000000000075815b05705156b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8BWhy anyone would need BMP wrap= per to monitor IGP ?=C2=A0

BGP has been recently polluted enough that it works just perfectly fin= e without a new draft/rfc or single line of code change to act as IGP monit= oring protocol.=C2=A0

= Just enable =C2=A0AFI 16388 / SAFI 71 as described in RFC7752 (possibly wit= h many additional follow-up extensions being currently cooked) and ride on.= =C2=A0

r.
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Fri, Jul 6, 201= 8 at 2:14 AM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
robin,

> It is not described clearly in the draft that reusing BMP is also a > possible option for monitoring IGP. We will refine the draft.=C2=A0
if i could also use bmp for monitoring dns, smtp, and ntp, i could stop using nagios!

i think what acee is trying to say is that "B" in BMP does not st= and
for Bypass.

randy

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--00000000000075815b05705156b7-- From nobody Fri Jul 6 02:46:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B44130E2D; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GomPNboiE7y3; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A3BA130DEE; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 02:46:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12418; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1530870410; x=1532080010; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wohjtGl2wKa1rmgXIW0CxeG1ZoEnbaiMEGklqdz7e4o=; b=MPZgD7DUHFNSWXCeRhiH53RNJNFFWMzRV/x9hGvzevxGpr2zpTP7i5x3 lbhj0k4X53hapzKYEb+lAqz0fEVlu//5FEsxQc4Z/IO3qiGwgTHa6KlEf gDw8RnONVBnEwwYskhdpgbi8FDNyzakv6m/ORMmmArA1BTR8/IPWJTOOF E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D6AADM+T5b/xbLJq1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYMbgRBtEiiDeogEX407IoM0hQKMehSBZgsYDYQBRgKCTjQ?= =?us-ascii?q?YAQIBAQIBAQJtHAyFNgEBAQECAQEBIQ8BBTYEBQIMBAkCEQQBAQECAiMDAgI?= =?us-ascii?q?hBh8JCAYBDAYCAQGDHAGBZwMNCA+NTZtIghyEW4I5DYEugTqBC4k4P4EOASc?= =?us-ascii?q?MgV5+glZCAQECAQGBJF6CW4JVAoVWgWsmhGuMUisJhgaFWzaDBQaBQB4lg0m?= =?us-ascii?q?CRoVGh3uCOk+BNIVTgUE4gVIzGggbFRohgmkJgkOISIU/PjABj1EBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,315,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="4947039" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jul 2018 09:46:47 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.105] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-105.cisco.com [10.63.23.105]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w669klqM003495; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 09:46:47 GMT To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Lizhenbin , Jeff Tantsura , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <0b3e7ad1-2d6b-79c0-6981-ed1e833b76a0@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 10:46:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:46:54 -0000 On 05/07/2018 23:03, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Robin, > > I know for a fact that there have been applications written that do passive monitoring using IS-IS and simply advertising yourself in overload mode. Additionally, given that all routes in an area have the same LSDB, you don't really have the same requirements as BGP. > > With respect to scalability, I believe the advantage of the YANG models is more in terms of consumption and having a single network programmability paradigm rather unique per-protocol monitoring. Additionally, YANG, NETCONF, RESTCONF, gNMI, and streaming telemetry are happening now irrespective of your proposal. > > I agree that a custom protocol will result in fewer bits on the wire and potentially less processing on the network device. However, I certainly don't believe that this alone is a reason to do it. If we want less bits on the wire, then adding support for a binary encoding (e.g. CBOR) to the existing YANG management protocols seems like a better path forwards to me since that seems to have the widest benefit.  CBOR encoded YANG (if using numerical "SIDs" rather than strings for the field names, draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor) is a pretty tight encoding, and is designed for IOT and constrained devices.  A CBOR encoding probably won't be quite as compact as custom TLVs, but I doubt that it would be significantly bigger either, and it has quite a few other benefits (code reuse, can be generically decoded). Thanks, Rob > > > Thanks, > Acee > > > On 7/5/18, 6:49 AM, "GROW on behalf of Lizhenbin" wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > Before we propose the NMP idea, we carefully compared it with the existing NETCONF, gRPC and YANG models work: > 1. Based on my experience in the YANG model work, it may be not satisfactory for these models does not define config/oper of all features of specific protocol and these models have much relation with each other and it is difficult to stabilize the definition. > 2. For monitoring the control protocol, it is not enough based on the existing YANG models such as the packets of control protocol which should be monitored but not defined in YANG models. > 3. Performance concern on the existing NETCONF. > 4. Standardization of the existing gRPC. > > We would like to define the NMP based on the usecases. That is, a specific set of parameters exported by NMP can satisfy the purpose of a specific usecase. Thus the protocol can be deployed incrementally. > > > Best Regards, > Robin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 5:15 AM > To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Lizhenbin ; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > Cc: lsr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) > Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > Robin, > > Pretty much same comment as Acee - I'm not clear as to why... > Protocol YANG models developed in the last years clearly provide much better and more scalable approach to what has been proposed in the draft, since we are talking is-is - look at notifications in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg. How do you propose to corelate operational state to configuration? > > gRPC provides high performance RPC framework to streaming the telemetry data that is structured, easy to consume and extend. > > I'm not going to go into technical discussion, however would appreciate your response as to why NMP (please do not restate the points in the section 4 of the draft, they are quite incorrect) > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > Jeff > > On 7/3/18, 09:21, "Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: > > Hi Robin, > I'm not arguing to deprecate BMP. What I am arguing is that the fact that BMP was created 15 years ago doesn't necessarily mean we should create an analogous IMP for IS-IS given the current IETF OPS technologies and the fact that faster link speeds and Moore's law facilitate deployment of these new OPS technologies. Anyway, I looked at the agenda and I will definitely attend GROW on Wednesday afternoon for the discussion. > Thanks, > Acee > > On 7/3/18, 6:40 AM, "Lizhenbin" wrote: > > Hi Acee, > Thank for your attention to the new draft. Please refer to my reply inline. > > Best Regards, > Robin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 9:24 PM > To: Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) ; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > Hi Yunan, Shunwan, and Zhenbin, > > What are the advantages of inventing a new protocol over just using YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI? > [Robin] In the draft we simply mention the difference between NMP and protocols you mentioned for the management plane. Though there is maybe some overlap between the two types of protocols, the protocols you mentioned is not enough for monitoring the control protocol. For example, would we like to use YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI to export the packets of control protocols such as update message of BGP and/or ISIS PDU, etc. for the purpose of monitoring? > > > Operators and vendors are doing this anyway. A second alternative would be to listen passively in IS-IS (or OSPF for that matter). Why would anyone want this? > [Robin] In fact we tried the method you proposed. From our point of view, the basic design principle should be that the monitoring entity should be decoupled from the monitored entity. This is to avoid following cases: > 1. The failure of operation of the control protocol may affect the monitoring at the same time. > 2. The limitation of the control protocol will also have effect on the monitoring. For example, for the method of listening passively, if there are multiple hops between the listener and the network devices, it has to set up a tunnel as the virtual link for direct connection. But the TCP-based monitoring protocol need not care about it. > > > As far as where it belongs, we have a rather full agenda in LSR so I don't think we want to devote time to it there at IETF 102. > [Robin] Though the WG the draft should belong to is not determined yet, we think the work belongs to OPS area and send the notice to GROW WG and OPSAWG. We also applied for the presentation in the two WGs. We should have copied the notice to the related WGs of RTG area. So the LSR WG and RTGWG WG mailing list are added. More comments and suggestions are welcome. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > > On 7/2/18, 8:20 AM, "GROW on behalf of Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" wrote: > > Dear GROW & OPSAWG WGs, > > We have proposed a Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) for the control plane OAM. NMP for ISIS is illustrated in this draft to showcase the benefit and operation of NMP. Yet, we haven't decided which WG it belongs to. > > > Comments and suggestions are very welcome! > > Thank you! > > > Yunan Gu > Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: 2018年7月2日 20:07 > To: Zhuangshunwan ; Lizhenbin ; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Yunan Gu and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol > Revision: 00 > Title: Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) > Document date: 2018-07-02 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 15 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol > > > Abstract: > To enable automated network OAM (Operations, administration and > management), the availability of network protocol running status > information is a fundamental step. In this document, a network > monitoring protocol (NMP) is proposed to provision the information > related to running status of IGP (Interior Gateway Protocol) and > other control protocols. It can facilitate the network > troubleshooting of control protocols in a network domain. Typical > network issues are illustrated as the usecases of NMP for ISIS to > showcase the necessity of NMP. Then the operations and the message > formats of NMP for ISIS are defined. In this document ISIS is used > as the illustration protocol, and the case of OSPF and other control > protocols will be included in the future version. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > 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mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 05:59:28 -0400 From: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" To: Robert Wilton CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Lizhenbin , Jeff Tantsura , "grow@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFKwzieqxxaEAfUazAgI7bkDwWKSCNjiAgAADioA= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 09:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <0b3e7ad1-2d6b-79c0-6981-ed1e833b76a0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0b3e7ad1-2d6b-79c0-6981-ed1e833b76a0@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.106.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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d="scan'208,217";a="138940265" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jul 2018 11:20:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w66BKhh3000958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:20:43 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 07:20:42 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 07:20:42 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , =?utf-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?= , "Jeff Tantsura" , "stephane.litkowski" , "mpls@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label Thread-Index: AQHUFRtgGpvlAPnlqkudFHQhe9Vb6A== Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 11:20:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1300246B-BE81-4F77-8413-6874B96379B5@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1300246BBE814F7784136874B96379B5ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Comments on draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 11:20:48 -0000 --_000_1300246BBE814F7784136874B96379B5ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6CSlQqK50SrO; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 619F3126F72; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fbQKZ-0005WS-Fq; Fri, 06 Jul 2018 12:59:23 +0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 05:59:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk Cc: Lizhenbin , lsr@ietf.org, GMO Crops , opsawg@ietf.org, RTGWG In-Reply-To: References: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43F070@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <35FD4375-DF78-4E5B-A1A4-ACCC332A8E5E@cisco.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE26@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 12:59:36 -0000 > =E2=80=8BWhy anyone would need BMP wrapper to monitor IGP ? probably similar reasons that folk seem to need bgp-ls to get the is-is/ospf databases. is-is and ospf have decades of complexity layered on un-simple bases. so we seek yet another layer of gunk through which to see them more 'simply.' i would say an optimistic view might be that it will take a couple more decades to gunk up bgp-ls and bmp so that we want yet another layer. but it would appear that my optimism is not warranted. randy From nobody Fri Jul 6 06:20:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB375130EF1 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 06:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com 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=?us-ascii?q?A0CcAgDM+T5b/4kNJK1cGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEIAQEBAYJTdmJ/KAqYKYFlIpAihQ6BegslhEcCgi0hNRcBAgEBAgEBAm0?= =?us-ascii?q?cDIU2AQEBAQMdXBACAQgRBAEBKAcyFAkIAgQOBYMgAYEbZA+rMYRbg3SBNQW?= =?us-ascii?q?IbYIVgTYMgi4ugUGBVwIDAYISgnyCJAKRaodlCQKGBIkcgUCEDIgMijWHLwI?= =?us-ascii?q?REwGBJB8BNSaBLHAVZQGCPoIwiGSFPm+OOIEaAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,316,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="138865480" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jul 2018 13:44:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w66DinOA004951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Jul 2018 13:44:49 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 09:44:49 -0400 Received: from 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[Lsr] IETF 102 LSR Working Group Call for Agenda Items X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 13:44:59 -0000 --_000_70C116FC16C1409999E83CF6421448DFciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zhibo, As I told you, the LSR WG agenda is fully subscribed for IETF 102. Note tha= t dynamic metric adjustment is not a new idea and is supported by many wire= less routing protocols (e.g., BABEL) as well as EIGRP. However, I realize t= hat you are proposed a controller framework as opposed to local network adj= ustments. Perhaps, you could request a slot in the Routing Working Group as= they are meeting twice. Thanks, Acee On Jul 6, 2018, at 3:15 AM, Huzhibo > wrote: Hi, Request a slot to discuss Network Automatic Optimization Based on Dynamic A= djustment of IGP Metrics: Drafts: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hu-lsr-network-automatic-optimizatio= n/ Presenter: ZhiBo Hu Duration: 15 mins Thanks! ZHiBo From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 9:45 PM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] IETF 102 LSR Working Group Call for Agenda Items Hi Folks, The LSR (link-state-routing) WG will be meeting on Monday, July 16, 2018 fr= om 9:30 to 12:00 (the first WG slot of IETF 102). Please send us (lsr-chairs@ietf.org) any reques= ts for presentation slots. Thanks, Acee --_000_70C116FC16C1409999E83CF6421448DFciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1980AAC02BB0DF49A7DD47A21E5A7F68@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zhibo, 

As I told you, the LSR WG agenda is fully subscribed for IE= TF 102. Note that dynamic metric adjustment is not a new idea and is suppor= ted by many wireless routing protocols (e.g., BABEL) as well as EIGRP. Howe= ver, I realize that you are proposed a controller framework as opposed to local network adjustments. Perhaps, y= ou could request a slot in the Routing Working Group as they are meeting tw= ice. 

Thanks,
Acee

On Jul 6, 2018, at 3:15 AM, Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi,<= /div>
 
Request a slot to discuss<= b class=3D""> Network Automatic Optimization Based on Dynamic Adjustment of IGP Metrics:
 
Drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-hu-lsr-network-automatic-optimization/=
Presenter: ZhiBo Hu
 
Duration: 15 mins=
 
Thanks!
ZHiBo
 
 
Fr= om: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Linde= m (acee)
Sent: M= onday, June 18, 2018 9:45 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] IETF 102 LSR Working Group Call for Agenda Items
 
Hi Folks,
=  
The LSR (link-st= ate-routing) WG will be meeting on Monday, July 16, 2018 from 9:30 to 12:00= (the first WG slot of IETF 102).
=  
Please send us (= lsr-chairs@ietf.org) any request= s for presentation slots.
=  
Thanks,
Acee

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"lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IETF 102 LSR Working Group Call for Agenda Items Thread-Index: AQHUFPkeTNqsE7TLkkCbnub2VqRERKSCeB2A///A6AA= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 13:58:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2271245A-3BAF-4E6F-9C6F-790066BBC1A2@cisco.com> <06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DFAC8E0F95@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <70C116FC-16C1-4099-99E8-3CF6421448DF@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <70C116FC-16C1-4099-99E8-3CF6421448DF@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EF4E39B1D1FE462CBB3E6C21EA6036A1ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IETF 102 LSR Working Group Call for Agenda Items X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Jul 2018 16:00:59 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 12:00:59 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 6 Jul 2018 12:00:59 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement - draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-02 Thread-Index: AQHUFUKHBAaD2qmJN0W/v9CDGHX2Eg== Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 16:00:59 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BB6DC69C61874BDF8B882109D55F87CDciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement - draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:01:04 -0000 --_000_BB6DC69C61874BDF8B882109D55F87CDciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWxsLA0KDQpUaGUgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIGhhcyBjb21wbGV0ZWQgYW5kIHdlIHdpbGwgcmVxdWVz dCBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbi4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQWNlZQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBMc3IgPGxzci1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnPiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgIkFjZWUgTGluZGVtIChhY2VlKSIgPGFjZWU9NDBjaXNj by5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpEYXRlOiBNb25kYXksIEp1bmUgMTgsIDIwMTggYXQgMTI6 MDcgUE0NClRvOiAibHNyQGlldGYub3JnIiA8bHNyQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogW0xzcl0g 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-0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christian Hopps To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Christian Hopps , lsr-chairs@ietf.org, chopps@chopps.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153089417238.5189.1627065729430930652.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:22:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2018 16:22:53 -0000 Christian Hopps has requested publication of draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-11 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ From nobody Sat Jul 7 20:25:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589B0130F65; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 20:25:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sl1a82xG-Vw1; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 20:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA009130F66; Sat, 7 Jul 2018 20:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fc0KB-0003HZ-NR; Sun, 08 Jul 2018 03:25:23 +0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2018 20:25:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Lizhenbin Cc: GMO Crops , opsawg@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2018 03:25:30 -0000 robin, i am not ignoring you. i did not want to write unless i had something possibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to think, always difficult. > I would also like to propose following draft for your reference which > trigger us to move forward for better network maintenance with > multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play different > roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/ [ warning: my memory is likely fuzzy, and the glass is dark ] at an ietf in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of the snmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. the snmp folk were shocked to learn that no operators used snmp for other than monitoring; no one had snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the cli[1]. from this was born netconf and the xml path. credit where due: phil eng was already well down this path at the time of that meeting. but netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model. snmp had models, whether we thought they were pretty or not. thus yang was born, and , of course, a new generation wants to use the latest modern toys such as restconf, openconfig, json, ... draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for network telemetry," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a priori, a bad one. but a few comments from a jaded old dog. for a new paradigm to gain traction, it must be *significantly* better than the old one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing. in the story above, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an unfashionable encoding. and yang clearly provided something needed and missing from netconf. note that this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and we dis the itu et alia. second, draft-song-ntf is an export-only model. while telemetry is extremely important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and may not speak. and the more it evolves to a really attractive paradigm and model, the more annoyed i will be that i can not use it for control. and lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of all evil." do not get distracted by squeezing bits out of an encoding. focus on things such as simple, clear, securable, extensible ... randy --- 0 - i would love help pinning down which meeting 1 - i still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt. an american political slogan of the era was "it's the economy, stupid." From nobody Sun Jul 8 15:41:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899F91310EE; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2tF48uaPTT6D; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57E8B1310EB; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1009EACFA8FD5; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:41:14 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:41:15 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.30]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.22]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 15:41:11 -0700 From: Yingzhen Qu To: "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review Thread-Index: AQHUFwzESVuP/IhseEmo//2PfJJvzg== Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 22:41:09 +0000 Message-ID: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.246.195] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B8E130DF6; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 18:05:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UBhEYQE7ibzN; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 18:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x243.google.com (mail-it0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A337112777C; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 18:05:01 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, "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000058b58d0570869a78" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 01:05:06 -0000 --00000000000058b58d0570869a78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin, Einar pointed exactly right points, very little to add. Let=E2=80=99s keep is-is (narrow) scope. 1. There=E2=80=99s operational state of the protocol - I don=E2=80=99t real= ly see what=E2=80=99s missing in IETF/OpenConfig YANG models that would nessesarily require new work? Please be specific in your answers 2. What=E2=80=99s in LSDB - to my understanding you are not looking at that= ? Reading your draft - it only concerns operational state, not the content, so BMP is not really a comparable solution either... Wrt gRPC and some other work being done by OpenConfig/open source community - besides Einar=E2=80=99s points - we have got great working relationship w= ith the team working on these technologies, there are gRPC and gNMI drafts in RTGWG that would be updated when the need arise. Wrt performance - there=E2=80=99s significant amount of research/testing an= d comparisons of gRPC vs most of other RPC solutions, at scale, we in networking won=E2=80=99t reach in quite some time, I=E2=80=99d advice to lo= ok it up. We could discuss other advantages of running on top of HTTPv2 separately. Please note - I=E2=80=99m not judging your proposal, but trying to understa= nd why, we as the community should be spending time and effort on it, so far you you didn=E2=80=99t manage to convince me. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks, Jeff On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 04:45 Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) < einarnn@cisco.com> wrote: > Robin, > > With respect to your points below: > > > - #1 =E2=80=93 The draft ISIS model doesn=E2=80=99t seem to have many = lateral > dependencies as far as I can see. And if it is incomplete from the > perspective of monitoring the health of ISIS, then it should be extend= ed. > I=E2=80=99m not sure why it would be difficult to stabilise the defini= tion? > - #2 =E2=80=93 This seems to be the same issue of an incomplete model.= Can you > clearly articulate any data that you think should be available that *c= annot > be modelled in YANG*? > - #3 =E2=80=93 Agreed that exporting high volume, low latency telemetr= y one > the baseline transport suggested in ietf-netconf-yang-push would > perhaps have issues. This is one of the reasons why transport extensib= ility > is an explicit part of the draft. > - #4 =E2=80=93 IMO, as long as the encoding for data is clearly define= d in an > "open" way, then this is not really an issue yet. I still think we nee= d to > experiment with encodings, but I do not think an entirely new protocol= will > serve network operators. > > > I=E2=80=99d also like to add to the last point and say that I do not thin= k adding > new protocols and new encodings will serve network operators well. Over t= he > last few years operators have been making it clear that they want to > simplify their interactions with the network, and not have more things th= ey > need to understand thrown at them. Acee isn=E2=80=99t suggesting deprecat= ing BMP, > and neither am I, but in at least two discussions with operators I have > attended, when introduced to BMP, their initial reaction could be > summarised as "this looks interesting, but why have you introduced > *another* protocol for this?" > > I completely support identifying the use cases you have, but would really > like to see us focus on rectifying any deficiencies we can identify with > existing proposals, rather than dilute our efforts. > > Cheers, > > Einar > > On 5 Jul 2018, at 11:48, Lizhenbin wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > Before we propose the NMP idea, we carefully compared it with the existin= g > NETCONF, gRPC and YANG models work: > 1. Based on my experience in the YANG model work, it may be not > satisfactory for these models does not define config/oper of all features > of specific protocol and these models have much relation with each other > and it is difficult to stabilize the definition. > 2. For monitoring the control protocol, it is not enough based on the > existing YANG models such as the packets of control protocol which should > be monitored but not defined in YANG models. > 3. Performance concern on the existing NETCONF. > 4. Standardization of the existing gRPC. > > We would like to define the NMP based on the usecases. That is, a specifi= c > set of parameters exported by NMP can satisfy the purpose of a specific > usecase. Thus the protocol can be deployed incrementally. > > > Best Regards, > Robin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com > ] > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 5:15 AM > To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Lizhenbin < > lizhenbin@huawei.com>; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > Cc: lsr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology > Research Dept. NW) > Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > Robin, > > Pretty much same comment as Acee - I'm not clear as to why... > Protocol YANG models developed in the last years clearly provide much > better and more scalable approach to what has been proposed in the draft, > since we are talking is-is - look at notifications in > draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg. How do you propose to corelate operational > state to configuration? > > gRPC provides high performance RPC framework to streaming the telemetry > data that is structured, easy to consume and extend. > > I'm not going to go into technical discussion, however would appreciate > your response as to why NMP (please do not restate the points in the > section 4 of the draft, they are quite incorrect) > > Thanks! > > Cheers, > Jeff > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 09:21, "Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" < > lsr-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrot= e: > > Hi Robin, > I'm not arguing to deprecate BMP. What I am arguing is that the fact > that BMP was created 15 years ago doesn't necessarily mean we should crea= te > an analogous IMP for IS-IS given the current IETF OPS technologies and th= e > fact that faster link speeds and Moore's law facilitate deployment of the= se > new OPS technologies. Anyway, I looked at the agenda and I will definitel= y > attend GROW on Wednesday afternoon for the discussion. > Thanks, > Acee > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 6:40 AM, "Lizhenbin" wrote: > > Hi Acee, > Thank for your attention to the new draft. Please refer to my repl= y > inline. > > Best Regards, > Robin > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org > ] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 9:24 PM > To: Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) < > guyunan@huawei.com>; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for > draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > Hi Yunan, Shunwan, and Zhenbin, > > What are the advantages of inventing a new protocol over just usin= g > YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI? > [Robin] In the draft we simply mention the difference between NMP > and protocols you mentioned for the management plane. Though there is may= be > some overlap between the two types of protocols, the protocols you > mentioned is not enough for monitoring the control protocol. For example, > would we like to use YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI to export the > packets of control protocols such as update message of BGP and/or ISIS PD= U, > etc. for the purpose of monitoring? > > > Operators and vendors are doing this anyway. A second alternative > would be to listen passively in IS-IS (or OSPF for that matter). Why woul= d > anyone want this? > [Robin] In fact we tried the method you proposed. From our point o= f > view, the basic design principle should be that the monitoring entity > should be decoupled from the monitored entity. This is to avoid following > cases: > 1. The failure of operation of the control protocol may affect the > monitoring at the same time. > 2. The limitation of the control protocol will also have effect on > the monitoring. For example, for the method of listening passively, if > there are multiple hops between the listener and the network devices, it > has to set up a tunnel as the virtual link for direct connection. But the > TCP-based monitoring protocol need not care about it. > > > As far as where it belongs, we have a rather full agenda in LSR so > I don't think we want to devote time to it there at IETF 102. > [Robin] Though the WG the draft should belong to is not determined > yet, we think the work belongs to OPS area and send the notice to GROW WG > and OPSAWG. We also applied for the presentation in the two WGs. We shoul= d > have copied the notice to the related WGs of RTG area. So the LSR WG and > RTGWG WG mailing list are added. More comments and suggestions are welcom= e. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > > On 7/2/18, 8:20 AM, "GROW on behalf of Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP > Technology Research Dept. NW)" guyunan@huawei.com> wrote: > > Dear GROW & OPSAWG WGs, > > We have proposed a Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) for the > control plane OAM. NMP for ISIS is illustrated in this draft to showcase > the benefit and operation of NMP. Yet, we haven't decided which WG it > belongs to. > > > Comments and suggestions are very welcome! > > Thank you! > > > Yunan Gu > Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.or= g > ] > Sent: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 20:07 > To: Zhuangshunwan ; Lizhenbin < > lizhenbin@huawei.com>; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. > NW) > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.t= xt > has been successfully submitted by Yunan Gu and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol > Revision: 00 > Title: Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) > Document date: 2018-07-02 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 15 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-= 00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol/ > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol > > > Abstract: > To enable automated network OAM (Operations, administration > and > management), the availability of network protocol running > status > information is a fundamental step. In this document, a > network > monitoring protocol (NMP) is proposed to provision the > information > related to running status of IGP (Interior Gateway Protocol= ) > and > other control protocols. It can facilitate the network > troubleshooting of control protocols in a network domain. > Typical > network issues are illustrated as the usecases of NMP for > ISIS to > showcase the necessity of NMP. Then the operations and the > message > formats of NMP for ISIS are defined. In this document ISIS > is used > as the illustration protocol, and the case of OSPF and othe= r > control > protocols will be included in the future version. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time > of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > _______________________________________________ > OPSAWG mailing list > OPSAWG@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > > --00000000000058b58d0570869a78 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Robin,

Einar pointed exactly right points, very little to add.
Let=E2=80=99s keep is-is (narrow) scope.
1. There=E2=80=99s operational state of the protocol - I don=E2= =80=99t really see what=E2=80=99s missing in IETF/OpenConfig YANG models th= at would nessesarily require new work?
Please be spe= cific in your answers

2.= What=E2=80=99s in LSDB - to my understanding you are not looking at that? = Reading your draft - it only concerns operational state, =C2=A0not the cont= ent, so BMP is not really a comparable solution either...

Wrt gRPC and some other work being done b= y OpenConfig/open source community - besides Einar=E2=80=99s points - we ha= ve got great working relationship with the team working on these technologi= es, there are gRPC and gNMI drafts in RTGWG that would be updated when the = need arise.
Wrt performance - there=E2=80=99s signif= icant amount of research/testing and comparisons of gRPC vs most of other R= PC solutions, at scale, we in networking won=E2=80=99t reach in quite some = time, I=E2=80=99d advice to look it up. We could discuss other advantages o= f running on top of HTTPv2 separately.

Please note - I=E2=80=99m not judging your proposal, but try= ing to understand why, we as the community should be spending time and effo= rt on it, so far you you didn=E2=80=99t manage to convince me.

Looking forward to your reply.
=

Thanks,
Jeff

On Thu, Ju= l 5, 2018 at 04:45 Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) <einarnn@cisco.com> wrote:
Robin,

With respect to your points below:

  • #1 =E2=80=93 The draft ISIS model doesn=E2=80=99t seem to have many lat= eral dependencies as far as I can see. And if it is incomplete from the per= spective of monitoring the health of ISIS, then it should be extended. I=E2= =80=99m not sure why it would be difficult to stabilise the definition?
  • #2 =E2=80=93 This seems to be the same issue of an= incomplete model. Can you clearly articulate any data that you think shoul= d be available that cannot be=C2=A0modelled in YANG?
  • #3 =E2=80=93 Agreed that ex= porting high volume, low latency telemetry one the baseline transport sugge= sted in=C2=A0ietf-netconf-yang-push wo= uld perhaps have issues. This is one of the reasons why transport extensibility is an explicit part of the draft.
    • <= li>#4 =E2=80=93 IMO, as long as the en= coding for data is clearly defined in an "open" way, then this is= not really an issue yet. I still think we need to experiment with encoding= s, but I do not think an entirely new protocol will serve network operators.=

I=E2=80=99d also like to add to the last point and say that I do not t= hink adding new protocols and new encodings will serve network operators we= ll. Over the last few years operators have been making it clear that they w= ant to simplify their interactions with the network, and not have more things they need to understand thrown at th= em. Acee isn=E2=80=99t suggesting deprecating BMP, and neither am I, but in= at least two discussions with operators I have attended, when introduced t= o BMP, their initial reaction could be summarised as "this looks interesting, but why have you introduced another=C2=A0protocol for this?"

I completely support identifying the use cases you have, but would rea= lly like to see us focus on rectifying any deficiencies we can identify wit= h existing proposals, rather than dilute our efforts.

Cheers,

Einar

On 5 Jul 2018, at 11:48, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Jeff,
Before we propose the NMP idea, we carefully compared it with the existing = NETCONF, gRPC and YANG models work:
1. Based on my experience in the YANG model work, it may be not satisfactor= y for these models does not define config/oper of all features of specific = protocol and these models have much relation with each other and it is diff= icult to stabilize the definition.
2. For monitoring the control protocol, it is not enough based on the exist= ing YANG models such as the packets of control protocol which should be mon= itored but not defined in YANG models.
3. Performance concern on the existing NETCONF.
4. Standardization of the existing gRPC.

We would like to define the NMP based on the usecases. That is, a specific = set of parameters exported by NMP can satisfy the purpose of a specific use= case. Thus the protocol can be deployed incrementally.


Best Regards,
Robin



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 5:15 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Lizhenbin= <lizhenbin@hu= awei.com>; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) <= ;guyunan@huawei.com= >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network= -mornitoring-protol-00.txt

Robin,

Pretty much same comment as Acee - I'm not clear as to why...
Protocol YANG models developed in the last years clearly provide much bette= r and more scalable approach to what has been proposed in the draft, since = we are talking is-is - look at notifications in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-c= fg. How do you propose to corelate operational state to configuration?

gRPC provides high performance RPC framework =C2=A0to streaming the telemet= ry data that is structured, easy to consume and extend.

I'm not going to go into technical discussion, however would appreciate= your response as to why NMP (please do not restate the points in the secti= on 4 of the draft, they are quite incorrect)

Thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff

=EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 09:21, "Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" = <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org on behalf of acee= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Hi Robin,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I'm not arguing to deprecate BMP. What I am arguing i= s that the fact that BMP was created 15 years ago doesn't necessarily m= ean we should create an analogous IMP for IS-IS given the current IETF OPS = technologies and the fact that faster link speeds and Moore's law facilitate deployment of these new OPS technologies. Anyway, I looked = at the agenda and I will definitely attend GROW on Wednesday afternoon for = the discussion.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Acee

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=EF=BB=BFOn 7/3/18, 6:40 AM, "Lizhenbin" <lizhenbin@huawei.co= m> wrote:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Hi Acee,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thank for your attention to the n= ew draft. Please refer to my reply inline.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Best Regards,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Robin



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0-----Original Message-----
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Sent: Monday, July 02, 2018 9:24 = PM
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0To: Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technol= ogy Research Dept. NW) <guyunan@huawei.com>; grow@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: = New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Hi Yunan, Shunwan, and Zhenbin, <= br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0What are the advantages of invent= ing a new protocol over just using YANG and NETCONF, RESTCONF, or gNMI?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[Robin] In the draft we simply me= ntion the difference between NMP and protocols you mentioned for the manage= ment plane. Though there is maybe some overlap between the two types of pro= tocols, the protocols you mentioned is not enough for monitoring the control protocol. For example, would we like to use YANG and NETCONF, REST= CONF, or gNMI to export the packets of control protocols such as update mes= sage of BGP and/or ISIS PDU, etc. for the purpose of monitoring?


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Operators and vendors are doing t= his anyway. A second alternative would be to listen passively in IS-IS (or = OSPF for that matter). Why would anyone want this?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[Robin] In fact we tried the meth= od you proposed. From our point of view, the basic design principle should = be that the monitoring entity should be decoupled from the monitored entity= . This is to avoid following cases:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A01. The failure of operation of th= e control protocol may affect the monitoring at the same time.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02. The limitation of the control = protocol will also have effect on the monitoring. For example, for the meth= od of listening passively, if there are multiple hops between the listener = and the network devices, it has to set up a tunnel as the virtual link for direct connection. But the TCP-based monitoring protocol need not care= about it.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0As far as where it belongs, we ha= ve a rather full agenda in LSR so I don't think we want to devote time = to it there at IETF 102. =C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0[Robin] Though the WG the draft s= hould belong to is not determined yet, we think the work belongs to OPS are= a and send the notice to GROW WG and OPSAWG. We also applied for the presen= tation in the two WGs. We should have copied the notice to the related WGs of RTG area. So the LSR WG and RTGWG WG mailing list are added. More c= omments and suggestions are welcome.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Acee



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0On 7/2/18, 8:20 AM, "GROW on= behalf of Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" <grow-bounces@ietf.= org on behalf of guyunan@huawei.com<= /a>> wrote:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Dear GROW= & OPSAWG WGs,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0We have p= roposed a Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP) for the control plane OAM. NMP = for ISIS is illustrated in this draft to showcase the benefit and operation= of NMP. Yet, we haven't decided which WG it belongs to.


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Comments = and suggestions are very welcome!

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thank you= !


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Yunan Gu<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Huawei Te= chnologies Co. Ltd

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0-----Orig= inal Message-----
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0From: internet-drafts@= ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Sent: 201= 8=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 20:07
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0To: Zhuan= gshunwan <= zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; Guyunan (Yunan= Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW) <guyunan@huawei.com>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Subject: = New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0A new ver= sion of I-D, draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0has been = successfully submitted by Yunan Gu and posted to the IETF repository.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Name: draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Revision:= 00
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title: Network Monitoring Protocol (NMP)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Document = date: 2018-07-02
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Group: Individual Submission
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Pages: 15
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0URL: =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gu-networ= k-mornitoring-protol-00.txt
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Status: = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol/
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Htmlized:= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Htmlized:= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Abstract:=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0To enable automated network OAM (Operations, administration and =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0management), the availability of network protocol running status =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0information is a fundamental step.=C2=A0 In this document, a netwo= rk
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0monitoring protocol (NMP) is proposed to provision the information=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0related to running status of IGP (Interior Gateway Protocol) and =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0other control protocols.=C2=A0 It can facilitate the network
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0troubleshooting of control protocols in a network domain.=C2=A0 Ty= pical
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0network issues are illustrated as the usecases of NMP for ISIS to<= br> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0showcase the necessity of NMP.=C2=A0 Then the operations and the m= essage
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0formats of NMP for ISIS are defined.=C2=A0 In this document ISIS i= s used
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0as the illustration protocol, and the case of OSPF and other contr= ol
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0protocols will be included in the future version.





=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Please no= te that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until t= he htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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--00000000000058b58d0570869a78-- From nobody Sun Jul 8 20:58:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C65A130E13; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 20:58:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=icloud.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hZHIlOsXsqKj; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 20:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com (mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com [17.120.66.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20598130E11; Sun, 8 Jul 2018 20:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process-dkim-sign-daemon.mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com by mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) id <0PBK00M00YTULJ00@mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com>; Mon, 09 Jul 2018 03:58:41 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1531108721; bh=7oSE7lma3/MXiMcf/l4Fdjspafsw8ONTNuo6bm9Mk7M=; h=From:Message-id:Content-type:MIME-version:Subject:Date:To; b=pVElb3/ggDbXPs1DdQLo5nUjIjTffO4tgxp7ZMv20frSH5tKZLN1ohtBuP97NDSJn LELfJcDgJo7LhjIwYq+89tKXwBRWkby3Df/MR4mXbVAAPU4Wy7SCH6BfgYZva173y3 MnyGNwY1HnDD7msKaBU3IB8tCc5E8pDff7LgBAS06QWiQD1xNVX5IrwEGeJpgf1t4G wkR9FjJfJykyFTCTZ+hlaBzP+i+d8fsYhmgsEPO0IFjjigow7TUiXHgooiZkPvD19L fcdSNEh5gGN1MP0xGlM6OZxKxnBdCl9dhGpvbrlE3qWgRGclYsqw7246YQdJ33ThwM 4kUcEbjXOnQHg== Received: from icloud.com ([127.0.0.1]) by mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.2.20170607 64bit (built Jun 7 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0PBK00O02Z1OVO00@mr90p54im-ztdg04142001.me.com>; Mon, 09 Jul 2018 03:58:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2018-07-09_01:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=3 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1807090045 From: Greg Skinner Message-id: <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2D33E9D-4BB6-4726-9C0D-4D3504EE01EE" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2018 20:58:35 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: GMO Crops , opsawg@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org To: Randy Bush , lizhenbin@huawei.com References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 03:58:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B2D33E9D-4BB6-4726-9C0D-4D3504EE01EE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Randy, Is the OPS-NM Configuration Management Requirements (ops-nm) Bof = from IETF 52 (10 December = 2001) the meeting you were thinking of? There are also references to an = IAB meeting in 2002 about the lack of use of SNMP for network = configuration in SNMP compared with CLI, Netconf, Netflow = that = culminated in RFC 3535 . Robin, Regarding the draft in question, I generally agree with the concerns = others have made that it doesn=E2=80=99t appear to provide anything that = other technologies such as YANG provide. Also, IMO, the draft needs = considerable work to be more easily understood. For example, there are = many acronyms such as CSNP and PSNP that are not defined, and may be = misunderstood by readers not familiar with ISIS. In the packet format = sections, there are several uncapitalized uses of =E2=80=98should=E2=80=99= . Do the authors consider these to be non-normative requirements? = There are also statements such as "Network OAM statistics show that a = relatively large part of the network issues are caused by the = disfunction of various routing protocols and MPLS signalings=E2=80=9D = that are offered without citations. Regards, Greg > On Jul 7, 2018, at 8:25 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 > robin, >=20 > i am not ignoring you. i did not want to write unless i had something > possibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to think, always > difficult. >=20 >> I would also like to propose following draft for your reference which >> trigger us to move forward for better network maintenance with >> multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play different >> roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/ >=20 > [ warning: my memory is likely fuzzy, and the glass is dark ] >=20 > at an ietf in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of > the snmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. the snmp folk = were > shocked to learn that no operators used snmp for other than = monitoring; > no one had snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the > cli[1]. from this was born netconf and the xml path. credit where = due: > phil eng was already well down this path at the time of that meeting. >=20 > but netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model. snmp had models, > whether we thought they were pretty or not. thus yang was born, and , > of course, a new generation wants to use the latest modern toys such = as > restconf, openconfig, json, ... >=20 > draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for network > telemetry," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a priori, a bad one. but = a > few comments from a jaded old dog. >=20 > for a new paradigm to gain traction, it must be *significantly* better > than the old one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing. in the > story above, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an = unfashionable > encoding. and yang clearly provided something needed and missing from > netconf. note that this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and = we > dis the itu et alia. >=20 > second, draft-song-ntf is an export-only model. while telemetry is > extremely important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and > may not speak. and the more it evolves to a really attractive = paradigm > and model, the more annoyed i will be that i can not use it for = control. >=20 > and lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of > all evil." do not get distracted by squeezing bits out of an = encoding. > focus on things such as simple, clear, securable, extensible ... >=20 > randy >=20 > --- >=20 > 0 - i would love help pinning down which meeting >=20 > 1 - i still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt. an american > political slogan of the era was "it's the economy, stupid." >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B2D33E9D-4BB6-4726-9C0D-4D3504EE01EE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Randy,

Is = the OPS-NM Configuration Management Requirements (ops-nm) = Bof from IETF 52 (10 December 2001) the meeting you were = thinking of?  There are also references to an IAB meeting in 2002 = about the lack of use of SNMP for network configuration in SNMP compared with CLI, Netconf, Netflow that = culminated in RFC 3535.

Robin,

Regarding the draft in question, I generally agree with the = concerns others have made that it doesn=E2=80=99t appear to provide = anything that other technologies such as YANG provide.  Also, IMO, = the draft needs considerable work to be more easily understood. =  For example, there are many acronyms such as CSNP and PSNP that = are not defined, and may be misunderstood by readers not familiar with = ISIS.  In the packet format sections, there are several = uncapitalized uses of =E2=80=98should=E2=80=99.  Do the authors = consider these to be non-normative requirements?  There are also = statements such as "Network OAM statistics show that a relatively large = part of the network issues are caused by the disfunction of various = routing protocols and MPLS signalings=E2=80=9D that are offered without = citations.

Regards,
Greg

On = Jul 7, 2018, at 8:25 PM, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

robin,

i am not ignoring you. =  i did not want to write unless i had something
possibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to = think, always
difficult.

I would also like to = propose following draft for your reference which
trigger = us to move forward for better network maintenance with
multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play = different
roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/

[ warning: my memory is likely = fuzzy, and the glass is dark ]

at an ietf = in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of
the snmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. =  the snmp folk were
shocked to learn that no = operators used snmp for other than monitoring;
no one had = snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the
cli[1].  from this was born netconf and the xml path. =  credit where due:
phil eng was already well down = this path at the time of that meeting.

but = netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model.  snmp had = models,
whether we thought they were pretty or not. =  thus yang was born, and ,
of course, a new = generation wants to use the latest modern toys such as
restconf, openconfig, json, ...

draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for = network
telemetry," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a = priori, a bad one.  but a
few comments from a jaded = old dog.

for a new paradigm to gain = traction, it must be *significantly* better
than the old = one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing.  in the
story above, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an = unfashionable
encoding.  and yang clearly provided = something needed and missing from
netconf.  note that = this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and we
dis = the itu et alia.

second, draft-song-ntf is = an export-only model.  while telemetry is
extremely = important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and
may not speak.  and the more it evolves to a really = attractive paradigm
and model, the more annoyed i will be = that i can not use it for control.

and = lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of
all evil."  do not get distracted by squeezing bits out = of an encoding.
focus on things such as simple, clear, = securable, extensible ...

randy

---

0 - i would = love help pinning down which meeting

1 - i = still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt.  an american
   political slogan of the era was "it's the = economy, stupid."


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from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jul 2018 09:14:24 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.38] ([10.147.24.38]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w699ENRn015947; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:14:23 GMT Message-ID: <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 11:14:23 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 09:14:29 -0000 Hi Yingzhen, thanks for your review. As regards to first IDNITS warning, not sure about the first one, I took the section "Requirements Language" from RFC8395 as suggested by Loa. RFC2119 is only referenced there, that should not be a problem though. I removed the reference to ISO10589. thanks, Peter On 09/07/18 00:41 , Yingzhen Qu wrote: > Dear authors, > > I have done shepherd review of draft-ietf-ospf-lls-id-04 as requested by > LSR chairs. I’d like to thank all authors for their contributions on > this document, also people who have reviewed this document and provided > valuable comments and discussions. > > The document is well written and ready for publication. > > IDNITS check found a couple of nits: > > Miscellaneous warnings: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** The document contains RFC2119-like boilerplate, but doesn't seem to > > mention RFC 2119. The boilerplate contains a reference [BCP14], > but that > > reference does not seem to mention RFC 2119 either. > > -- The document date (July 1, 2018) is 7 days in the past. Is this > > intentional? > > Checking references for intended status: Proposed Standard > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative > references > > to lower-maturity documents in RFCs) > > == Unused Reference: 'ISO10589' is defined on line 200, but no explicit > > reference was found in the text > > '[ISO10589] International Organization for Standardization, > "Intermed...' > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'BCP14' > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'ISO10589' > > Summary: 1 error (**), 0 flaws (~~), 1 warning (==), 3 comments (--). > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks, > > Yingzhen > From nobody Mon Jul 9 05:06:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C56E124C04; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 05:06:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bH1dMnwO56wz; 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d="scan'208";a="140412513" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jul 2018 11:36:42 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w69Bafei004796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:36:42 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 07:36:41 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 07:36:41 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review Thread-Index: AQHUFwzESVuP/IhseEmo//2PfJJvzqSG32iA///kswA= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:36:41 +0000 Message-ID: <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; 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q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1531139167; x=1532348767; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TEL4POPELvFjpIHbOcrQstwg6Ek5NIhL/X3loSxNJLk=; b=Gv0m2pi+fNcfNJ3e3eDb7FpW7lcuACltLY3UiRx8ks/JXzUuDWVUHZ3H nhmLaXyCIHmsnoorBC93Ig1tpWT7pcJzwNuHFlY66c3SrMI2QsrrO2StH GSLpB/RAjzNuyAaaJxiItQP5sDXeYMyZEdr8mf3T7gStOuhckNNshAv3F w=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,330,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="5003805" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jul 2018 12:26:04 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.38] ([10.147.24.38]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w69CQ3Bi022605; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 12:26:04 GMT Message-ID: <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 14:26:03 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 12:26:09 -0000 Hi Acee, that is exactly what I have in the draft. thanks, Peter On 09/07/18 13:36 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Peter, > > The new boiler plate for requirements language, with references to both RFC 2119 and RFC 8174, is: > > > 1.1. Requirements Language > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP > 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all > capitals, as shown here. > > > This should resolve the IDNITS warning. > > Thanks, > Acee > > On 7/9/18, 5:14 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" wrote: > > Hi Yingzhen, > > thanks for your review. > > As regards to first IDNITS warning, not sure about the first one, I took > the section "Requirements Language" from RFC8395 as suggested by Loa. > RFC2119 is only referenced there, that should not be a problem though. > > I removed the reference to ISO10589. > > thanks, > Peter > > On 09/07/18 00:41 , Yingzhen Qu wrote: > > Dear authors, > > > > I have done shepherd review of draft-ietf-ospf-lls-id-04 as requested by > > LSR chairs. I’d like to thank all authors for their contributions on > > this document, also people who have reviewed this document and provided > > valuable comments and discussions. > > > > The document is well written and ready for publication. > > > > IDNITS check found a couple of nits: > > > > Miscellaneous warnings: > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ** The document contains RFC2119-like boilerplate, but doesn't seem to > > > > mention RFC 2119. The boilerplate contains a reference [BCP14], > > but that > > > > reference does not seem to mention RFC 2119 either. > > > > -- The document date (July 1, 2018) is 7 days in the past. Is this > > > > intentional? > > > > Checking references for intended status: Proposed Standard > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative > > references > > > > to lower-maturity documents in RFCs) > > > > == Unused Reference: 'ISO10589' is defined on line 200, but no explicit > > > > reference was found in the text > > > > '[ISO10589] International Organization for Standardization, > > "Intermed...' > > > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'BCP14' > > > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'ISO10589' > > > > Summary: 1 error (**), 0 flaws (~~), 1 warning (==), 3 comments (--). > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks, > > > > Yingzhen > > > > > From nobody Mon Jul 9 05:29:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA940130EBB; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 05:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 08:29:53 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review Thread-Index: AQHUFwzESVuP/IhseEmo//2PfJJvzqSG32iA///kswCAAFDagP//vgSA Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 12:29:53 +0000 Message-ID: <13338F6E-0DFD-4D80-8719-1947514933B9@cisco.com> References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: 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(Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E3321801510; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:13:07 +0200 (CEST) To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> <13338F6E-0DFD-4D80-8719-1947514933B9@cisco.com> From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:13:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <13338F6E-0DFD-4D80-8719-1947514933B9@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 14:13:13 -0000 Folks, I agree - no reason to delay! There is one small difference between what is in the document and what is in the RFC I pointed to The document has "...as described in [BCP 14] [RFC2119] [RFC8174]..." While RFC has "...as described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174]..." The reference list in the RFC do not have BCP 14 listed as a reference. I don't know if this helps. Acee BCP 14 is both [RFC2119] and [RFC8174]. /Loa On 2018-07-09 14:29, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Strange, I'd remove the reference to [BCP14] since RFC 8174 and BCP 14 are the same document. I'm going to request publication as this certainly isn't enough to delay for an update. > > Thanks, > Acee > > On 7/9/18, 8:26 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" wrote: > > Hi Acee, > > that is exactly what I have in the draft. > > thanks, > Peter > > On 09/07/18 13:36 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > The new boiler plate for requirements language, with references to both RFC 2119 and RFC 8174, is: > > > > > > 1.1. Requirements Language > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in BCP > > 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all > > capitals, as shown here. > > > > > > This should resolve the IDNITS warning. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > On 7/9/18, 5:14 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" wrote: > > > > Hi Yingzhen, > > > > thanks for your review. > > > > As regards to first IDNITS warning, not sure about the first one, I took > > the section "Requirements Language" from RFC8395 as suggested by Loa. > > RFC2119 is only referenced there, that should not be a problem though. > > > > I removed the reference to ISO10589. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > On 09/07/18 00:41 , Yingzhen Qu wrote: > > > Dear authors, > > > > > > I have done shepherd review of draft-ietf-ospf-lls-id-04 as requested by > > > LSR chairs. I’d like to thank all authors for their contributions on > > > this document, also people who have reviewed this document and provided > > > valuable comments and discussions. > > > > > > The document is well written and ready for publication. > > > > > > IDNITS check found a couple of nits: > > > > > > Miscellaneous warnings: > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ** The document contains RFC2119-like boilerplate, but doesn't seem to > > > > > > mention RFC 2119. The boilerplate contains a reference [BCP14], > > > but that > > > > > > reference does not seem to mention RFC 2119 either. > > > > > > -- The document date (July 1, 2018) is 7 days in the past. Is this > > > > > > intentional? > > > > > > Checking references for intended status: Proposed Standard > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about using normative > > > references > > > > > > to lower-maturity documents in RFCs) > > > > > > == Unused Reference: 'ISO10589' is defined on line 200, but no explicit > > > > > > reference was found in the text > > > > > > '[ISO10589] International Organization for Standardization, > > > "Intermed...' > > > > > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'BCP14' > > > > > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: ref. 'ISO10589' > > > > > > Summary: 1 error (**), 0 flaws (~~), 1 warning (==), 3 comments (--). > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Yingzhen > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Mon Jul 9 07:15:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D437D128CF3; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 07:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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Jul 2018 14:14:51 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 10:14:50 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 10:14:50 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Loa Andersson , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review Thread-Index: AQHUFwzESVuP/IhseEmo//2PfJJvzqSG32iA///kswCAAFDagP//vgSAgABf5oD//71sAA== Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:14:50 +0000 Message-ID: <583FDE1C-4085-4B8B-9855-DAC07EE0D2ED@cisco.com> References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> 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[10.147.24.38] ([10.147.24.38]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w69FC3uV010187; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 15:12:04 GMT Message-ID: <5B437B43.2090704@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 17:12:03 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loa Andersson , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <6FD38147-EA21-4336-B436-1072BF449DE2@huawei.com> <5B43276F.2040405@cisco.com> <8A3E4F27-F540-424E-8617-2C986FD3DA00@cisco.com> <5B43545B.7070403@cisco.com> <13338F6E-0DFD-4D80-8719-1947514933B9@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 Shepherd review X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 15:12:11 -0000 Hi Loa, thanks for pointing that out. I'll fix it. thanks, Peter On 09/07/18 16:13 , Loa Andersson wrote: > Folks, > > I agree - no reason to delay! > > There is one small difference between what is in the document and what > is in the RFC I pointed to > > The document has "...as described in [BCP 14] [RFC2119] [RFC8174]..." > > While RFC has "...as described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174]..." > > The reference list in the RFC do not have BCP 14 listed as a reference. > I don't know if this helps. > > Acee > > BCP 14 is both [RFC2119] and [RFC8174]. > > /Loa > > On 2018-07-09 14:29, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> >> Strange, I'd remove the reference to [BCP14] since RFC 8174 and BCP 14 >> are the same document. I'm going to request publication as this >> certainly isn't enough to delay for an update. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> On 7/9/18, 8:26 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" wrote: >> >> Hi Acee, >> that is exactly what I have in the draft. >> thanks, >> Peter >> On 09/07/18 13:36 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >> > Hi Peter, >> > >> > The new boiler plate for requirements language, with references >> to both RFC 2119 and RFC 8174, is: >> > >> > >> > 1.1. Requirements Language >> > >> > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", >> "SHALL NOT", >> > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", >> "MAY", and >> > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as >> described in BCP >> > 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they appear in all >> > capitals, as shown here. >> > >> > >> > This should resolve the IDNITS warning. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Acee >> > >> > On 7/9/18, 5:14 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Yingzhen, >> > >> > thanks for your review. >> > >> > As regards to first IDNITS warning, not sure about the >> first one, I took >> > the section "Requirements Language" from RFC8395 as >> suggested by Loa. >> > RFC2119 is only referenced there, that should not be a >> problem though. >> > >> > I removed the reference to ISO10589. >> > >> > thanks, >> > Peter >> > >> > On 09/07/18 00:41 , Yingzhen Qu wrote: >> > > Dear authors, >> > > >> > > I have done shepherd review of draft-ietf-ospf-lls-id-04 >> as requested by >> > > LSR chairs. I’d like to thank all authors for their >> contributions on >> > > this document, also people who have reviewed this >> document and provided >> > > valuable comments and discussions. >> > > >> > > The document is well written and ready for publication. >> > > >> > > IDNITS check found a couple of nits: >> > > >> > > Miscellaneous warnings: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >> > > ** The document contains RFC2119-like boilerplate, >> but doesn't seem to >> > > >> > > mention RFC 2119. The boilerplate contains a >> reference [BCP14], >> > > but that >> > > >> > > reference does not seem to mention RFC 2119 either. >> > > >> > > -- The document date (July 1, 2018) is 7 days in the >> past. Is this >> > > >> > > intentional? >> > > >> > > Checking references for intended status: Proposed >> Standard >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >> > > (See RFCs 3967 and 4897 for information about >> using normative >> > > references >> > > >> > > to lower-maturity documents in RFCs) >> > > >> > > == Unused Reference: 'ISO10589' is defined on line >> 200, but no explicit >> > > >> > > reference was found in the text >> > > >> > > '[ISO10589] International Organization for >> Standardization, >> > > "Intermed...' >> > > >> > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: >> ref. 'BCP14' >> > > >> > > -- Possible downref: Non-RFC (?) normative reference: >> ref. 'ISO10589' >> > > >> > > Summary: 1 error (**), 0 flaws (~~), 1 warning >> (==), 3 comments (--). >> > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Yingzhen >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > From nobody Mon Jul 9 09:13:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE05131116; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:13:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Acee Lindem To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org, Yingzhen Qu , iesg-secretary@ietf.org, yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153115282676.5442.11121527194052920564.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 09:13:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 16:13:48 -0000 Acee Lindem has requested publication of draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-04 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ From nobody Mon Jul 9 14:57:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4578A13107F; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GOVjAfzqAfjf; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8BC113107D; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C2530732E198; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:57:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 22:57:25 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.132]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.236]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:57:17 -0700 From: Haoyu song To: Randy Bush , Lizhenbin CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , GMO Crops , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFKw5+X6kcVEEo0W4WxYQgude5KSCRYQAgALdE4CAAlGdAA== Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 21:57:17 +0000 Message-ID: <78A2745BE9B57D4F9D27F86655EB87F9374EFB21@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.209.217.185] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 21:57:31 -0000 Hi Randy, Thank you for comments on draft-song-ntf. I'm not sure I understand your second point. Could you please clarify it? Please note we didn't enforce any specific model on the telemetry yet. This= doc only concerns the aspect on how to acquire data from networks. It does= support the dynamic and interactive configuration for data acquirement. Bu= t control is out of scope of this document, although we confirm that teleme= try plus control complete the closed control loop. Maybe I misunderstood yo= ur point. Thanks! Haoyu -----Original Message----- From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 8:25 PM To: Lizhenbin Cc: lsr@ietf.org; GMO Crops ; opsawg@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.or= g Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-g= u-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt robin, i am not ignoring you. i did not want to write unless i had something poss= ibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to think, always difficult= . > I would also like to propose following draft for your reference which=20 > trigger us to move forward for better network maintenance with=20 > multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play different > roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/ [ warning: my memory is likely fuzzy, and the glass is dark ] at an ietf in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of the s= nmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. the snmp folk were shocked= to learn that no operators used snmp for other than monitoring; no one had= snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the cli[1]. from this = was born netconf and the xml path. credit where due: phil eng was already well down this path at the time of that meeting. but netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model. snmp had models, wheth= er we thought they were pretty or not. thus yang was born, and , of course= , a new generation wants to use the latest modern toys such as restconf, op= enconfig, json, ... draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for network telemetry= ," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a priori, a bad one. but a few comment= s from a jaded old dog. for a new paradigm to gain traction, it must be *significantly* better than= the old one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing. in the story ab= ove, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an unfashionable encoding. = and yang clearly provided something needed and missing from netconf. note= that this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and we dis the itu et al= ia. second, draft-song-ntf is an export-only model. while telemetry is extreme= ly important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and may not spea= k. and the more it evolves to a really attractive paradigm and model, the = more annoyed i will be that i can not use it for control. and lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of all = evil." do not get distracted by squeezing bits out of an encoding. focus on things such as simple, clear, securable, extensible ... randy --- 0 - i would love help pinning down which meeting 1 - i still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt. an american political slogan of the era was "it's the economy, stupid." _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg From nobody Tue Jul 10 17:41:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com 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from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jul 2018 00:40:59 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (xch-aln-016.cisco.com [173.36.7.26]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w6B0exes008740 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 Jul 2018 00:40:59 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com (173.37.102.26) by XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (173.36.7.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 19:40:58 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) by XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com ([173.37.102.26]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 19:40:58 -0500 From: "Tim Evens (tievens)" To: Greg Skinner , Randy Bush , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , GMO Crops , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUExMHVLjWoqpkGkGBWxrfSNrSi6SAySSAgAC8j4CAAKF8AIAC3RSAgAGboICAAnf4gA== Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 00:40:58 +0000 Message-ID: <646634D0-AB75-4715-AB1C-8BB378F2ADF6@cisco.com> References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> In-Reply-To: <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.56.244] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_646634D0AB754715AB1C8BB378F2ADF6ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: 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(PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=9jB9WPDOdvCB8R4igLhyI6eY+mkFf/VM6CMOGN7ZBPU=; b=lcfVDcgO10INtCWk6EllfBKvmc5nzi8GYF3aVhyp2HRbwr4Yomxu/ygC/MMW93kHEX 1wPeqJJjmM+ud/TUB26+76NDjfu7AYRRqP7R0oXfU7Pu7OlbQMVmhKJ+KH01Wv65/tsg J2DQDOlI6nd452cbaHQNy0UxuK1MO1/iv/CkK4Uum4bkOUXrtiEQlhjMOrH06JzvWkMQ 0+8PFnsbq83IUf1+IpWr1sFK/1JyJkH3iWrvNxFJmmtZ1qz6KIvQNKq9FvcNxNHVCt4s 4UfgsQolq5Afy+lcM4WIA8SxEv7pUh6kO1OAR4A4ovZQUo/Rt7vrv74KvlVNfK+HiDFU URVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9jB9WPDOdvCB8R4igLhyI6eY+mkFf/VM6CMOGN7ZBPU=; b=b7AVy82cllVEPg+7EmcVUVUWe4VOALDRbcUgLa5lvtGvVRfPXI2DT2mWUtuU0J6g5i HTrGA6z5EFyH2jeVXVrGXHeq1yEjEmt04LAo5NUUDW3FXwCQ+6WHoS8sk/125JQHCBxP 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<14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> <646634D0-AB75-4715-AB1C-8BB378F2ADF6@cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 11:24:52 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Gwg86mTRT5CNPtJVbEcnyyUwEH4 Message-ID: To: "Tim Evens (tievens)" Cc: Greg Skinner , Randy Bush , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" , GMO Crops , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000baff480570b5d146" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 09:24:57 -0000 --000000000000baff480570b5d146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim, I already suggested use of BGP-LS *as-is* in this thread on Jul 6th. But I guess we all agree that this is not the best use of BGP protocol to be now a vehicle of NMS only because it is easy with BGP to establish a TCP session and to distribute "stuff" in a relatively loop free fashion. Thx, R. On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:40 AM, Tim Evens (tievens) < tievens=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Hi Robin, Yunan, Shunwan, > > > > I'm a little late to this thread due to being preoccupied with a newborn. > > > > Below are my comments, which take into consideration the other comments= =E2=80=A6 > sans the YANG/telemetry debate. Considering we do use BGP-LS extensively= , > I don't think YANG is the only solution to these link-state monitoring > use-cases. > > > > BMP doesn't change or limit what's available in BGP. It encapsulates and > multiplexes BGP over a single stream for remote monitoring. BGP-LS > (RFC7752) can be used today to monitor link state protocols (ISIS, OSPF). > BGP-LS also can be used to monitor EPE and direct/static routes, which is= a > bit of a stretch on putting that in BGP-LS, but nonetheless=E2=80=A6 BGP= -LS is > available via BMP. > > > > "Section 3.1, ISIS Adjacency Issues" > > > > As written, this is covered by BGP-LS LINK NLRI. We see a LINK change > (advertised verses withdrawn) when the adjacency changes. If the router > dies or the control-plane fails in some way, we still see the NLRI change > from the other side of the adjacency (perspective). > > > > What we are missing is a BGP-LS "attribute" tlv (on local entries) for > links/nodes that indicates the REASON why the LINK (also NODE) is > withdrawn, but.... this is not available without changing the IGP protoco= l > itself (e.g. new ISIS TLV) or by implementing a solution architecture tha= t > requires BGP-LS feeds from all ISIS/OSPF nodes. As written, I see NMP > (including Netconf/gNMI/telemetry) requiring sessions from all nodes sinc= e > the targeted data is not available in ISIS TLV's today. For example, th= e > ISIS LSDB on node-A does not have any local (device specific) information > from all the other nodes unless there are TLV's to convey that informatio= n. > > > > Regarding requiring BGP-LS feeds from many or all nodes... We need this > regardless of this draft because of segment-routing/egress peer > engineering. Due to EPE, we already recommend BGP-LS peering (feeds) fr= om > all EPE nodes (normally via a peering server) so that we can > collect/monitor EPE (hopefully using https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-ietf-grow-bmp-local-rib-01). Adding LINK/NODE withdrawal/down > reason should not overstep into YANG/Netconf/Telemetry. > > > > "3.2. Forwarding Path Disconnection" > > > > This seems to be more of a fit for telemetry with interface/link > monitoring. Although, if the link was working at some point and it goes > down due to MTU or otherwise, the BGP-LS REASON attribute should be able = to > convey that. BGP-LS wouldn't convey anything if the link was never > established. Currently, it's assumed that the link advertisement means > it's established. This could be changed if we added a LINK NLRI state > TLV. The LINK could be updated (advertised) multiple times, changing > based on state. If the LINK doesn't establish, the withdrawal could > indicate the reason. > > > > "3.3. ISIS LSP Synchronization Failure" > > > > If a new BGP-LS LINK attribute is used as mentioned above to convey LINK > adv state, it should then be feasible to add a state to indicate > inconsistency. If the link/adj changes to down, then the withdrawal LINK > reason attribute could indicate the cause. > > > > The BGP-LS reason and state tlv's would only apply to the links/nodes tha= t > originate from the BGP-LS speaker. Other node/link advertisements would > not have the attribute/tlv. This is why the solution would recommend > enabling BGP-LS feeds from nodes that matter enough to get this level of > local info. This btw would solve a problem we have with BGP-LS today whe= re > optional TLV's are not present unless ISIS/OSPF have specific features > enabled, such as traffic-engineering... even IPv4/IPv6 router ID's are no= t > included unless enabled specifically (isis) per node. > > > > "4. Extensions of NMP for ISIS" > > > > Most of the new messages are redundant to the existing BGP-LS > advertisements and withdrawals. Telemetry of course could also convey > this=E2=80=A6 > > > > The initiation message could lead to overloading it with all kinds of > device specific info. Some constraint is needed. > > > > The per peer (adjacency) header is missing multi-topology. BGP-LS > includes the protocol type (e.g. CT) and MT (missing from this draft). > > > > All in all, I believe the use-cases described have merit and I think we > can do this with BGP-LS, which doesn't require BMP but could be used. > > > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > > > On 7/8/18, 8:59 PM, "GROW on behalf of Greg Skinner" < > grow-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of gregskinner0=3D40icloud.com@ > dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Randy, > > > > Is the OPS-NM Configuration Management Requirements (ops-nm) Bof > from IETF 52 (10 December > 2001) the meeting you were thinking of? There are also references to an > IAB meeting in 2002 about the lack of use of SNMP for network configurati= on > in SNMP compared with CLI, Netconf, Netflow > that culminated > in RFC 3535 . > > > > Robin, > > > > Regarding the draft in question, I generally agree with the concerns > others have made that it doesn=E2=80=99t appear to provide anything that = other > technologies such as YANG provide. Also, IMO, the draft needs considerab= le > work to be more easily understood. For example, there are many acronyms > such as CSNP and PSNP that are not defined, and may be misunderstood by > readers not familiar with ISIS. In the packet format sections, there are > several uncapitalized uses of =E2=80=98should=E2=80=99. Do the authors c= onsider these to > be non-normative requirements? There are also statements such as "Networ= k > OAM statistics show that a relatively large part of the network issues ar= e > caused by the disfunction of various routing protocols and MPLS signaling= s=E2=80=9D > that are offered without citations. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Jul 7, 2018, at 8:25 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > > > > robin, > > i am not ignoring you. i did not want to write unless i had something > possibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to think, always > difficult. > > > I would also like to propose following draft for your reference which > trigger us to move forward for better network maintenance with > multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play different > roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/ > > > [ warning: my memory is likely fuzzy, and the glass is dark ] > > at an ietf in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of > the snmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. the snmp folk were > shocked to learn that no operators used snmp for other than monitoring; > no one had snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the > cli[1]. from this was born netconf and the xml path. credit where due: > phil eng was already well down this path at the time of that meeting. > > but netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model. snmp had models, > whether we thought they were pretty or not. thus yang was born, and , > of course, a new generation wants to use the latest modern toys such as > restconf, openconfig, json, ... > > draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for network > telemetry," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a priori, a bad one. but a > few comments from a jaded old dog. > > for a new paradigm to gain traction, it must be *significantly* better > than the old one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing. in the > story above, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an unfashionable > encoding. and yang clearly provided something needed and missing from > netconf. note that this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and we > dis the itu et alia. > > second, draft-song-ntf is an export-only model. while telemetry is > extremely important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and > may not speak. and the more it evolves to a really attractive paradigm > and model, the more annoyed i will be that i can not use it for control. > > and lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of > all evil." do not get distracted by squeezing bits out of an encoding. > focus on things such as simple, clear, securable, extensible ... > > randy > > --- > > 0 - i would love help pinning down which meeting > > 1 - i still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt. an american > political slogan of the era was "it's the economy, stupid." > > > > _______________________________________________ > GROW mailing list > GROW@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow > > --000000000000baff480570b5d146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tim,

=
I already suggested use of BGP-LS *as-is* in this thread= on Jul 6th.=C2=A0

But= I guess we all agree that this is not the best use of BGP protocol to be n= ow a vehicle of NMS only because it is easy with BGP to establish a TCP ses= sion and to distribute "stuff" in a relatively loop free fashion.= =C2=A0

Thx,
R.

On Wed, Ju= l 11, 2018 at 2:40 AM, Tim Evens (tievens) <tievens=3D4= 0cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Robin, Yunan, Shunwan,

=C2=A0

I'm a little late to this thread due to being pr= eoccupied with a newborn.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Below are my comments, which take into consideration= the other comments=E2=80=A6 sans the YANG/telemetry debate.=C2=A0 Consider= ing we do use BGP-LS extensively, I don't think YANG is the only soluti= on to these link-state monitoring use-cases.

=C2=A0

BMP doesn't change or limit what's available= in BGP. It encapsulates and multiplexes BGP over a single stream for remot= e monitoring.=C2=A0=C2=A0 BGP-LS (RFC7752) can be used today to monitor lin= k state protocols (ISIS, OSPF).=C2=A0 BGP-LS also can be used to monitor EPE and direct/static routes, which is a bit of a stretch = on putting that in BGP-LS, but nonetheless=E2=80=A6 =C2=A0BGP-LS is availab= le via BMP.

=C2=A0

"Section 3.1, ISIS Adjacency Issues"

=C2=A0

As written, this is covered by BGP-LS LINK NLRI.=C2= =A0 We see a LINK change (advertised verses withdrawn) when the adjacency c= hanges.=C2=A0 If the router dies or the control-plane fails in some way, we= still see the NLRI change from the other side of the adjacency (perspective).=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

What we are missing is a BGP-LS "attribute"= ; tlv (on local entries) for links/nodes that indicates the REASON why the = LINK (also NODE) is withdrawn, but.... this is not available without changi= ng the IGP protocol itself (e.g. new ISIS TLV) or by implementing a solution architecture that requires BGP-LS feeds from= all ISIS/OSPF nodes.=C2=A0 As written, I see NMP (including Netconf/gNMI/t= elemetry) requiring sessions from all nodes since the targeted data is not = available in ISIS TLV's today.=C2=A0 =C2=A0For example, the ISIS LSDB on node-A does not have any local (device specific)= information from all the other nodes unless there are TLV's to convey = that information.

=C2=A0

Regarding requiring BGP-LS feeds from many or all no= des...=C2=A0 We need this regardless of this draft because of segment-routi= ng/egress peer engineering.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Due to EPE, we already recommend BG= P-LS peering (feeds) from all EPE nodes (normally via a peering server) so that we can collect/monitor EPE (hopefully using = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-grow-bmp-local-= rib-01). Adding LINK/NODE withdrawal/down reason should not overst= ep into YANG/Netconf/Telemetry.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

"3.2.=C2=A0 Forwarding Path Disconnection"=

=C2=A0

This seems to be more of a fit for telemetry with in= terface/link monitoring.=C2=A0 Although, if the link was working at some po= int and it goes down due to MTU or otherwise, the BGP-LS REASON attribute s= hould be able to convey that.=C2=A0 BGP-LS wouldn't convey anything if the link was never established.=C2=A0 Currently, it'= ;s assumed that the link advertisement means it's established.=C2=A0 Th= is could be changed if we added a LINK NLRI state TLV.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The LINK= could be updated (advertised) multiple times, changing based on state. =C2=A0=C2=A0If the LINK doesn't establish, the withdrawal co= uld indicate the reason. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

"3.3.=C2=A0 ISIS LSP Synchronization Failure&qu= ot;

=C2=A0

If a new BGP-LS LINK attribute is used as mentioned = above to convey LINK adv state, it should then be feasible to add a state t= o indicate inconsistency. If the link/adj changes to down, then the withdra= wal LINK reason attribute could indicate the cause.

=C2=A0

The BGP-LS reason and state tlv's would only app= ly to the links/nodes that originate from the BGP-LS speaker.=C2=A0 Other n= ode/link advertisements would not have the attribute/tlv.=C2=A0=C2=A0 This = is why the solution would recommend enabling BGP-LS feeds from nodes that matter enough to get this level of local info.=C2=A0 This = btw would solve a problem we have with BGP-LS today where optional TLV'= s are not present unless ISIS/OSPF have specific features enabled, such as = traffic-engineering... even IPv4/IPv6 router ID's are not included unless enabled specifically (isis) per node.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

"4.=C2=A0 Extensions of NMP for ISIS" <= /u>

=C2=A0

Most of the new messages are redundant to the existi= ng BGP-LS advertisements and withdrawals.=C2=A0 Telemetry of course could a= lso convey this=E2=80=A6

=C2=A0

The initiation message could lead to overloading it = with all kinds of device specific info.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Some constraint is need= ed.

=C2=A0

The per peer (adjacency) header is missing multi-top= ology.=C2=A0 BGP-LS includes the protocol type (e.g. CT) and MT (missing fr= om this draft).

=C2=A0

All in all, I believe the use-cases described have m= erit and I think we can do this with BGP-LS, which doesn't require BMP = but could be used.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Tim

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 7/8/18, 8:59 PM, "= ;GROW on behalf of Greg Skinner" <grow-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of gregskinner0=3D40icloud.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:<= u>

=C2=A0

Randy,

=C2=A0

Is the=C2=A0OPS-NM Configu= ration Management Requirements (ops-nm) Bof=C2=A0from IETF 52 (10 Decem= ber 2001) the meeting you were thinking of?=C2=A0 There are also references to an IAB meeting in 2002 about the lack of use of SNMP for network config= uration in=C2=A0SNMP compared with CLI, Netconf, Netflow=C2= =A0that culminated in=C2=A0RFC 3535.

=C2=A0

Robin,

=C2=A0

Regarding the draft in qu= estion, I generally agree with the concerns others have made that it doesn= =E2=80=99t appear to provide anything that other technologies such as YANG = provide.=C2=A0 Also, IMO, the draft needs considerable work to be more easily understood.=C2=A0 For example, there are many acron= yms such as CSNP and PSNP that are not defined, and may be misunderstood by= readers not familiar with ISIS.=C2=A0 In the packet format sections, there= are several uncapitalized uses of =E2=80=98should=E2=80=99. =C2=A0Do the authors consider these to be non-normative requirements?=C2= =A0 There are also statements such as "Network OAM statistics show tha= t a relatively large part of the network issues are caused by the disfuncti= on of various routing protocols and MPLS signalings=E2=80=9D that are offered without citations.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Jul 7, 2018, at 8:25 P= M, Randy Bush <randy@= psg.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

robin,

i am not ignoring you. =C2=A0i did not want to write unless i had something=
possibly useful to say; and that requires pretending to think, always
difficult.


I would also like to prop= ose following draft for your reference which
trigger us to move forward for better network maintenance with
multiple tools in which gRPC/NETCOF and NMP/BMP may play different
roles: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ntf/


[ warning: my memory is likely fuzzy, and the glass is dark ]

at an ietf in the late '90s[0], there was a hastily called meeting of the snmp standards bearers and a bunch of operators. =C2=A0the snmp folk we= re
shocked to learn that no operators used snmp for other than monitoring;
no one had snmp write enabled on devices; ops configured with the
cli[1]. =C2=A0from this was born netconf and the xml path. =C2=A0credit whe= re due:
phil eng was already well down this path at the time of that meeting.

but netconf/xml was a mechanism and lacked a model. =C2=A0snmp had models,<= br> whether we thought they were pretty or not. =C2=A0thus yang was born, and ,=
of course, a new generation wants to use the latest modern toys such as
restconf, openconfig, json, ...

draft-song-ntf yearns for an "architectural framework for network
telemetry," a lofty and worthwhile goal not, a priori, a bad one. =C2= =A0but a
few comments from a jaded old dog.

for a new paradigm to gain traction, it must be *significantly* better
than the old one, or the old paradigm must be clearly failing. =C2=A0in the=
story above, snmp was clearly failing, aside from using an unfashionable encoding. =C2=A0and yang clearly provided something needed and missing from=
netconf. =C2=A0note that this paradigm shift has taken over 20 years; and w= e
dis the itu et alia.

second, draft-song-ntf is an export-only model. =C2=A0while telemetry is extremely important, i will be very frustrated if i can only hear and
may not speak. =C2=A0and the more it evolves to a really attractive paradig= m
and model, the more annoyed i will be that i can not use it for control.
and lastly, to quote don knuth, "premature optimization is the root of=
all evil." =C2=A0do not get distracted by squeezing bits out of an enc= oding.
focus on things such as simple, clear, securable, extensible ...

randy

---

0 - i would love help pinning down which meeting

1 - i still have the "it's the cli, stupid" tee shirt. =C2=A0= an american
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0political slogan of the era was "it's the econom= y, stupid."

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
GROW mailing list
GROW@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/grow


--000000000000baff480570b5d146-- From nobody Wed Jul 11 05:56:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2191130E1E; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 05:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGRLrQc4z2q6; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 05:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91BDE130E75; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 05:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.rg.net) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdEfW-0000az-K6; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 12:56:30 +0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 08:56:30 -0400 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Tim Evens (tievens)" , Greg Skinner , "lizhenbin@huawei.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" , GMO Crops , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> <646634D0-AB75-4715-AB1C-8BB378F2ADF6@cisco.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/25.3 Mule/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 12:56:42 -0000 > But I guess we all agree that this is not the best use of BGP protocol to > be now a vehicle of NMS only because it is easy with BGP to establish a TCP > session and to distribute "stuff" in a relatively loop free fashion. now that dns over tcp/tls is being deployed, we can return to the other overused protocol. < emoji for drippinng sarcasm > randy From nobody Wed Jul 11 19:34:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3CE2130EC2; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:34:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AH-0PvyAicfJ; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39A86127148; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 73E4B29E17717; Thu, 12 Jul 2018 03:34:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMI424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.153) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Thu, 12 Jul 2018 03:34:37 +0100 Received: from DGGEMI524-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.70]) by DGGEMI424-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.153]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 12 Jul 2018 10:34:32 +0800 From: "Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)" To: Greg Skinner , Randy Bush , "rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "acee@cisco.com" , "einarnn=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , GMO Crops , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFzkzPZnVEqxzXE6jr7Maa1QaIaSK3fOg Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 02:34:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> In-Reply-To: <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.184.132] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C01B0098369B2D4391851938DA6700B7CA5C88DGGEMI524MBSchina_" MIME-Version: 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NW)" To: Robert Raszuk , "Tim Evens (tievens)" CC: Greg Skinner , GMO Crops , "lsr@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [GROW] [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-gu-network-mornitoring-protol-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHUFzkzPZnVEqxzXE6jr7Maa1QaIaSIqxwAgACSYACAAehmwA== Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 06:36:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <624FB76E-1588-4D6E-8DD6-A666C77A9201@gmail.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F43FE44@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8F4403E7@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <14AE5E1F-CE52-4061-A1B5-F34FCA8E461F@icloud.com> <646634D0-AB75-4715-AB1C-8BB378F2ADF6@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.184.132] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C01B0098369B2D4391851938DA6700B7CA5CFDDGGEMI524MBSchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [GROW] FW: New 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07:26:29 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-22.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 14:26:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for IS-IS protocol Authors : Stephane Litkowski Derek Yeung Acee Lindem Jeffrey Zhang Ladislav Lhotka Filename : draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-22.txt Pages : 104 Date : 2018-07-16 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage IS-IS protocol on network elements. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-22 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-22 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-22 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 17 04:13:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76535130E11; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 04:13:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vABD6DLmiOpB; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 04:13:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46246130DDB; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 04:13:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2377; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1531826009; x=1533035609; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=rlQbIpjP8HLPpHl3DnaMusIKAuW+Gf0FOqgq2704tjY=; b=dzrOgVtrEiZWOhAqzsGtqG5xYjFZj4jQ/QaLWeIjYcenicPyWjsjJPl+ yvMfU3hFhQlpC8m9wokIVTflinbuBqTZ/iV2n6IYe6gokI33bUsxYLfQH EDU1Q1K8dcQdPflnRbxT5770KwFWcULzVvD454b5cUTTJ5ZLhdonE/j/U o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CaAAA8zk1b/49dJa1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYMbLoFiMot3jDyXRYF6CgGEbIJsITQYAQIBAQIBAQJtKIV?= =?us-ascii?q?3PxIBGiRCFw8BBAENDROFBawQikWJAoFXP4EQjWMCkVGICwkCgT6NX4FLhBG?= =?us-ascii?q?IEZFtAhEUgSQdOIFScBU7gmqCJBeOF40UgRoBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,365,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="144305727" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Jul 2018 11:13:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w6HBDSW2006230 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:13:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:13:27 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:13:27 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "uma.chunduri@huawei.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Thread-Index: AdQdvIF2mtuL/a9RTae0GqOPQrjRDA== Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:13:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.23.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:13:32 -0000 Hi Uma, I would like share more context on the concerns that I raised on this propo= sal in LSR WG yesterday where we could not complete our discussion on the m= ike due to time constraints. IGPs were originally invented for topology computation and then route progr= amming based on the SPT computed. We've extended IGPs to carry/flood inform= ation and this includes information that were meant for various application= s. IGPs always do distribute topology computation - that is the core princi= ple. The PPR proposal takes IGPs into the area of flooding p2p paths and then se= tting up forwarding state along the path - essentially introducing path pro= visioning capabilities into it. Essentially adding a new functionality that= is NOT distributed topology computation. For clarity, I could summarize the PPR as follows (please correct if wrong)= : - Someone (head-end or controller) computes a SR Path which is expressed as= a SID List (it's a list of EROs just like in RSVP-TE - loose or strict) - The head-end floods this SR Path (and its EROs) into the IGP domain so al= l routers in the area get the P2P paths computed by all head-ends - Each router then must look at every such SR Path flooded by every router = and examine if it is part of the ERO list; if so then it needs to program t= he forwarding state for that PPR id (aka label) - The headend can then just look at this like a "tunnel" and do something l= ike IGP shortcut to the destination behind it This is picking EROs from RSVP-TE and putting them into IGPs for flooding p= 2p path state pervasively. Consider the kind of flooding scale and challeng= es when all these SR Paths go to every router irrespective of whether they = need/use it. Then on top of that, we are proposing IGPs to program a local = cross-connect if they are on that SR Path. My question is, why not just use RSVP-TE in this case? RSVP-TE does signall= ing but it does it only on the nodes that matter for a specific LSP.=20 This is called SR but it introduces a forwarding state on each of the hops = (i.e. the PPR label cross-connect) - something different from SR architectu= re. Including SPRING group as well for the review of this proposed SR solut= ion. Seems like a mishmash of SR and RSVP-TE to me and I am concerned about wher= e this takes IGPs. Thanks, Ketan From nobody Tue Jul 17 05:57:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A324130F06; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:57:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HRJQM-iC0kMc; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04934130E48; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6D470547ECF77; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:57:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:57:05 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.107]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.145]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 05:56:59 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Thread-Index: AdQdvIF2mtuL/a9RTae0GqOPQrjRDAADEYXA Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 12:56:59 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.124.182.105] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 12:57:17 -0000 Hi Ketan, In-line [Uma]: -- Uma C. -----Original Message----- From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:13 AM To: Uma Chunduri ; lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Hi Uma, I would like share more context on the concerns that I raised on this propo= sal in LSR WG yesterday where we could not complete our discussion on the m= ike due to time constraints. IGPs were originally invented for topology computation and then route progr= amming based on the SPT computed. We've extended IGPs to carry/flood inform= ation and this includes information that were meant for various application= s. IGPs always do distribute topology computation - that is the core princi= ple. The PPR proposal takes IGPs into the area of flooding p2p paths and then se= tting up forwarding state along the path - essentially introducing path pro= visioning capabilities into it. Essentially adding a new functionality that= is NOT distributed topology computation. For clarity, I could summarize the PPR as follows (please correct if wrong)= : - Someone (head-end or controller) computes a SR Path which is expressed as= a SID List (it's a list of EROs just like in RSVP-TE - loose or strict) - The head-end floods this SR Path (and its EROs) into the IGP domain so al= l routers in the area get the P2P paths computed by all head-ends - Each router then must look at every such SR Path flooded by every router = and examine if it is part of the ERO list; if so then it needs to program t= he forwarding state for that PPR id (aka label) - The headend can then just look at this like a "tunnel" and do something l= ike IGP shortcut to the destination behind it This is picking EROs from RSVP-TE and putting them into IGPs for flooding p= 2p path state pervasively. Consider the kind of flooding scale and challeng= es when all these SR Paths go to every router irrespective of whether they = need/use it. Then on top of that, we are proposing IGPs to program a local = cross-connect if they are on that SR Path. My question is, why not just use= RSVP-TE in this case? RSVP-TE does signalling but it does it only on the n= odes that matter for a specific LSP.=20 [Uma]: This helps in deployments, who is seeking source routing paradigm, = but SID stack on the packet is unsustainable. This statement is applicable = for both MPLS and IPv6 case.=20 Coming to the EROs in IGP - it was there in SR drafts, inc= luding as working group draft for 3 years. But what completely lacked was = how to use those. There are significant differences in the format and impor= tantly usage to solve various issues including hardware=20 Compatibilities of various line cards (and hence available = paths), MTU and line rate issues. I don't think you can use RSVP-TE to solv= e these SR issues. This is called SR but it introduces a forwarding state on each of the hops = (i.e. the PPR label cross-connect) - something different from SR architectu= re.=20 [Uma]: You already introduced per path state in various cases (binding sid= s to local policy, flex-algo). This has been discussed lately as part of r= e-chartering discussion.=20 This thread discusses that in detail and I fully concur wh= at Dave said here https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/spring/current/msg0= 3794.html=20 From nobody Tue Jul 17 06:33:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81715130DC7; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:33:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id py5w-QAzdNkZ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90E1A12F1A2; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:33:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3978; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1531834434; x=1533044034; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kCjCV6fdUsfapVRFX6jJltTtUjjK/CGPUBkzU2Xesc4=; b=MP237eBuXLT9AN0P3bAVaOYIjv+qxVymUt7TYVPHjkhb/8NM4+m6Q7jh aQCvg74AIFpHj+iUir4APMsHfzxcclRKNGQdL8geR9J/53ETdNIR25pAp K1eOCxzAprvdQ1age03iOtjLSxcheY/ulSBD/41L8zoai21UWBU/ILWdr g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,365,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="5231707" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Jul 2018 13:33:52 +0000 Received: from [10.86.246.30] ([10.86.246.30]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6HDXpdO000458; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:33:52 GMT Message-ID: <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:33:52 -0400 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uma Chunduri , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:33:59 -0000 Hi Uma, On 17/07/18 08:56 , Uma Chunduri wrote: > Hi Ketan, > > > In-line [Uma]: > -- > Uma C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:13 AM > To: Uma Chunduri ; lsr@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org > Subject: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing > > Hi Uma, > > I would like share more context on the concerns that I raised on this proposal in LSR WG yesterday where we could not complete our discussion on the mike due to time constraints. > > IGPs were originally invented for topology computation and then route programming based on the SPT computed. We've extended IGPs to carry/flood information and this includes information that were meant for various applications. IGPs always do distribute topology computation - that is the core principle. > > The PPR proposal takes IGPs into the area of flooding p2p paths and then setting up forwarding state along the path - essentially introducing path provisioning capabilities into it. Essentially adding a new functionality that is NOT distributed topology computation. > > For clarity, I could summarize the PPR as follows (please correct if wrong): > - Someone (head-end or controller) computes a SR Path which is expressed as a SID List (it's a list of EROs just like in RSVP-TE - loose or strict) > - The head-end floods this SR Path (and its EROs) into the IGP domain so all routers in the area get the P2P paths computed by all head-ends > - Each router then must look at every such SR Path flooded by every router and examine if it is part of the ERO list; if so then it needs to program the forwarding state for that PPR id (aka label) > - The headend can then just look at this like a "tunnel" and do something like IGP shortcut to the destination behind it > > This is picking EROs from RSVP-TE and putting them into IGPs for flooding p2p path state pervasively. Consider the kind of flooding scale and challenges when all these SR Paths go to every router irrespective of whether they need/use it. Then on top of that, we are proposing IGPs to program a local cross-connect if they are on that SR Path. My question is, why not just use RSVP-TE in this case? RSVP-TE does signalling but it does it only on the nodes that matter for a specific LSP. > > [Uma]: This helps in deployments, who is seeking source routing paradigm, but SID stack on the packet is unsustainable. This statement is applicable for both MPLS and IPv6 case. > Coming to the EROs in IGP - it was there in SR drafts, including as working group draft for 3 years. But what completely lacked was how to use those. There are significant differences in the format and importantly usage to solve various issues including hardware > Compatibilities of various line cards (and hence available paths), MTU and line rate issues. I don't think you can use RSVP-TE to solve these SR issues. > > This is called SR but it introduces a forwarding state on each of the hops (i.e. the PPR label cross-connect) - something different from SR architecture. > > [Uma]: You already introduced per path state in various cases (binding sids to local policy, flex-algo). This has been discussed lately as part of re-chartering discussion. flex-algo is NOT a per path state. It's a regular prefix-SID, which is bound to a prefix only. The problem with your proposal is that you flood all paths to all routers in the area and ask every router to evaluate all of them and see which of them may apply. This scale poorly. thanks, Peter > This thread discusses that in detail and I fully concur what Dave said here https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/spring/current/msg03794.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > . > From nobody Tue Jul 17 06:43:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C6EA130E58; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:43:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id smvkttkTyk4J; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C219130DC7; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 405898DFAA81F; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:43:12 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:43:14 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.107]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.200]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:43:11 -0700 From: Uma Chunduri To: Peter Psenak , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Thread-Index: AdQdvIF2mtuL/a9RTae0GqOPQrjRDAADEYXAABEsdAAADnF8YA== Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:43:10 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.124.182.105] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:43:21 -0000 Hi Peter, -----Original Message----- From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:34 AM To: Uma Chunduri ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-rou= ting > flex-algo is NOT a per path state. It's a regular prefix-SID, which is b= ound to a prefix only. Not quite. I will come back to this bit later. >The problem with your proposal is that you flood all paths to all routers= in the area and ask every router to evaluate all of them and see which of = them may apply. This scale poorly. Please see Section 6, in 01 version. -- Uma C. From nobody Tue Jul 17 06:54:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3608F12D7F8; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C_MHCcVA8fxc; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:54:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE7BB129385; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:54:43 -0000 SGkgQWxsLA0KDQpJIHdhcyByZXZpZXdpbmcgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCBhcyB0aGUgU2hlcGhlcmQuIEl0 IGlzIGEgZmFpcmx5IHNpbXBsZSBhbmQgc3RyYWlnaHRmb3J3YXJkIGJpcyB1cGRhdGUgdG8gUkZD NzgxMCB0byBmaXggYW4gZW5jb2RpbmcgZXJyb3IuDQoNClRoZXJlIGlzIG9uZSBwb2ludCB0aGF0 IEkgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBhbmQgV0cgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIuIA0KDQpUaGUgZHJh ZnQgaW4gdGhlIGFwcGVuZGl4IHRhbGtzIGFib3V0IHR3byBpbnRlcnByZXRhdGlvbnMgb2YgdGhl IGVycm9uZW91cyBzdWItVExWcyBhbmQgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIG9uIHRoZSBsaXN0 IEkgZ2V0IHRoZSBpbXByZXNzaW9uIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGF0IGxlYXN0IHR3byBpbXBsZW1l bnRhdGlvbnMgb3V0IHRoZXJlIHdoaWNoIGRpZCBkaWZmZXJlbnQgaW50ZXJwcmV0YXRpb25zLiBE byB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyIHB1dHRpbmcgaW4gYSBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIChpLmUuIG5vdCBu b3JtYXRpdmUgcGVyaGFwcykgdGhhdCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgdXBkYXRlZCB0byB0aGlzIHNw ZWNpZmljYXRpb25zIGFjY2VwdCB0aGUgc3ViLVRMViB3aXRoIHRoZSBSZXNlcnZlZCBmaWVsZCBp bmNsdWRlZCBhbmQgc2l6ZSA1PyBTbyB0aGV5IGRvbid0IGNvbnNpZGVyIHN1Y2ggYW4gZW5jb2Rp bmcgYXMgZXJyb3Igb3IgbWFsZm9ybWVkIG9uIHJlY2VwdGlvbj8NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2V0YW4N Cg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExzciA8bHNyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBBY2VlIExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkNClNlbnQ6IDE4IEp1bmUgMjAx OCAxNzozOA0KVG86IExlcyBHaW5zYmVyZyAoZ2luc2JlcmcpIDxnaW5zYmVyZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+ OyBDaHJpc3RpYW4gSG9wcHMgPGNob3Bwc0BjaG9wcHMub3JnPjsgbHNyQGlldGYub3JnDQpDYzog bHNyLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgbHNyLWFkc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtMc3Jd IFdHIExhc3QgQ2FsbCBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1sc3ItaXNpcy1yZmM3ODEwYmlzLTAwDQoNCkhp IExlcywgDQpZZXMgLSB0aGUgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCBMYXN0IGNhbGwgaGFzIGNvbXBsZXRlZC4g V2UnbGwgZmluZCBhIHNoZXBoZXJkIGFuZCByZXF1ZXN0IHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uLg0KVGhhbmtzLA0K QWNlZSANCg0K77u/T24gNi8xNS8xOCwgMTA6NDkgQU0sICJMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgKGdpbnNiZXJn KSIgPGdpbnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCiAgICBXRyBjaGFpcnMgLQ0KICAgIA0K ICAgIENhbiB3ZSBjb25zaWRlciBXRyBsYXN0IGNhbGwgY29tcGxldGVkPyAoSXQgaGFzIGJlZW4g bW9yZSB0aGFuIDMgd2Vla3MuLi4pDQogICAgDQogICAgV291bGQgcmVhbGx5IGxpa2UgdG8gZ2V0 IHRoaXMgc21hbGwgYnV0IGltcG9ydGFudCBjb3JyZWN0aW9uIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBBU0FQDQoNCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpMc3IgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0DQpMc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vbHNyDQo= From nobody Tue Jul 17 07:55:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD02E130E3D; 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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:55:23 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:55:22 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 09:55:22 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Uma Chunduri , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Thread-Index: AdQdvIF2mtuL/a9RTae0GqOPQrjRDAADEYXAAAUMrUA= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:55:22 +0000 Message-ID: <65fa2a7254484e82b29971edb55524e6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.23.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:55:48 -0000 Hi Uma, Please check inline below. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Uma Chunduri =20 Sent: 17 July 2018 08:57 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: RE: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Hi Ketan, In-line [Uma]: -- Uma C. -----Original Message----- From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:13 AM To: Uma Chunduri ; lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Hi Uma, I would like share more context on the concerns that I raised on this propo= sal in LSR WG yesterday where we could not complete our discussion on the m= ike due to time constraints. IGPs were originally invented for topology computation and then route progr= amming based on the SPT computed. We've extended IGPs to carry/flood inform= ation and this includes information that were meant for various application= s. IGPs always do distribute topology computation - that is the core princi= ple. The PPR proposal takes IGPs into the area of flooding p2p paths and then se= tting up forwarding state along the path - essentially introducing path pro= visioning capabilities into it. Essentially adding a new functionality that= is NOT distributed topology computation. For clarity, I could summarize the PPR as follows (please correct if wrong)= : - Someone (head-end or controller) computes a SR Path which is expressed as= a SID List (it's a list of EROs just like in RSVP-TE - loose or strict) - The head-end floods this SR Path (and its EROs) into the IGP domain so al= l routers in the area get the P2P paths computed by all head-ends - Each router then must look at every such SR Path flooded by every router = and examine if it is part of the ERO list; if so then it needs to program t= he forwarding state for that PPR id (aka label) - The headend can then just look at this like a "tunnel" and do something l= ike IGP shortcut to the destination behind it This is picking EROs from RSVP-TE and putting them into IGPs for flooding p= 2p path state pervasively. Consider the kind of flooding scale and challeng= es when all these SR Paths go to every router irrespective of whether they = need/use it. Then on top of that, we are proposing IGPs to program a local = cross-connect if they are on that SR Path. My question is, why not just use= RSVP-TE in this case? RSVP-TE does signalling but it does it only on the n= odes that matter for a specific LSP.=20 [Uma]: This helps in deployments, who is seeking source routing paradigm, = but SID stack on the packet is unsustainable. This statement is applicable = for both MPLS and IPv6 case.=20 [KT] Could we look at why the SID stack is getting "unsustainable" in the f= irst place? Coming to the EROs in IGP - it was there in SR drafts, inc= luding as working group draft for 3 years. But what completely lacked was = how to use those. [KT] Right and I never thought/realized that this was the purpose of those = EROs. I repeat the scale challenge and that you are proposing to re-purpose= IGPs for programming MPLS cross-connects for hop-by-hop LSP setup. This is= my concern. There are significant differences in the format and importantly usage to s= olve various issues including hardware=20 Compatibilities of various line cards (and hence available = paths), MTU and line rate issues. I don't think you can use RSVP-TE to solv= e these SR issues. This is called SR but it introduces a forwarding state on each of the hops = (i.e. the PPR label cross-connect) - something different from SR architectu= re.=20 [Uma]: You already introduced per path state in various cases (binding sid= s to local policy, flex-algo). This has been discussed lately as part of r= e-chartering discussion.=20 This thread discusses that in detail and I fully concur wh= at Dave said here https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/spring/current/msg0= 3794.html=20 [KT] Dave's argument was in multicast context while he was giving the p2p e= xample perhaps as a worst case theoretical example. IMHO we should not look= at such worst case scenarios. To me, this is a hybrid proposal to bring a = hop by hop path (which is why the SID stack is so huge) like in RSVP-TE int= o an SR network and then try to figure out a way to do this in IGPs. You ca= n feel free to disagree :-) Thanks, Ketan From nobody Tue Jul 17 10:30:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B7B130F6D; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhcNRf4Oj6KG; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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boundary="_002_14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429dXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 17:30:16 -0000 --_002_14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429dXCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 S2V0YW4gLQ0KDQpUaGFueCBmb3IgdGFraW5nIG9uIHRoZSByb2xlIG9mIHNoZXBoZXJkLg0KDQpJ IGFtIGF0dGFjaGluZyBzb21lIHByb3Bvc2VkIGRpZmZzIHdoaWNoIEkgdGhpbmsgYWRkcmVzc2Vz IHlvdXIgY29uY2Vybi4NCkxldCBtZSBrbm93IGlmIHRoaXMgc3VmZmljZXMgYW5kIHdlIGNhbiBw dWJsaXNoIGFuIHVwZGF0ZS4NCg0KICAgTGVzDQoNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBLZXRhbiBUYWxhdWxpa2FyIChrZXRhbnQpDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXks 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Jul 2018 17:37:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w6HHbSeQ014055 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 17 Jul 2018 17:37:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 12:37:28 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 12:37:27 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Uma Chunduri , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing Thread-Index: AdQdvIF2mtuL/a9RTae0GqOPQrjRDAADEYXAAAz7kgAAAFMmAAACjBWA Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 17:37:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9c5c3e8313aa44f7bff40f5a64e7d59f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.23.93] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 17:37:33 -0000 Uma - I share the concerns expressed by Ketan and Peter. Although I will certainly consider the additional response you seem to have= hinted at in your reply to Peter, it seems to me that Section 6 of your dr= aft acknowledges that there is a scaling problem - and then references what= seems to be a non-existent draft (I could not find "draft-ce-ppr-graph-00"= ???) as a proposed solution. In any further response you make it would be good if you did indicate wheth= er you agree PPR has a scaling issue - and given the contents of Section 6 = of your draft - also discuss why we should consider PPR + some additional s= caling enhancements when we already have at least one solution which does s= cale linearly. Thanx. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:43 AM > To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > ; lsr@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-r= outing >=20 > Hi Peter, >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:34 AM > To: Uma Chunduri ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > ; lsr@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-r= outing >=20 >=20 > > flex-algo is NOT a per path state. It's a regular prefix-SID, which is > bound to a prefix only. >=20 > Not quite. I will come back to this bit later. >=20 > >The problem with your proposal is that you flood all paths to all route= rs > in the area and ask every router to evaluate all of them and see which of= them > may apply. This scale poorly. >=20 > Please see Section 6, in 01 version. >=20 > -- > Uma C. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Tue Jul 17 11:29:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C76130FF6; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:29:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Anehz85U_1ut; 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d="scan'208";a="143939814" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Jul 2018 18:29:27 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (xch-aln-015.cisco.com [173.36.7.25]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w6HITRRq005554 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:29:27 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:29:26 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:29:26 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 Thread-Index: AQHT8qrG9J6mz5ZwvU69LFjauFcew6Rh3oSAgAUpHQCALLy+sIAAkbaA//+7taA= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:29:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y3gatmql.fsf@chopps.org> <45c18832cc9143f9b6fff0c1da4b742c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <6623B634-A565-454C-AD4E-E2DE28C89B93@cisco.com> <4dbe9a99763d4d39a320fcf498303eda@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.23.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:29:43 -0000 SGkgTGVzLA0KDQpUaGlzIHNvdW5kcyBnb29kLiBJIHdvdWxkIHN1Z2dlc3QgYmVpbmcgbGliZXJh bCBpbiByZWNlaXZlIChpLmUuIGFjY2VwdCBhbmQgaW50ZXJwcmV0IHRoZSBpbmNvcnJlY3QgZW5j b2RpbmcpIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBuZWVkIHRvIHNlbmQgdGhhdCBlcnJvbmVvdXMgZW5jb2Rp bmcuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCktldGFuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9t OiBMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgKGdpbnNiZXJnKSANClNlbnQ6IDE3IEp1bHkgMjAxOCAxMzozMA0KVG86 IEtldGFuIFRhbGF1bGlrYXIgKGtldGFudCkgPGtldGFudEBjaXNjby5jb20+OyBBY2VlIExpbmRl bSAoYWNlZSkgPGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPjsgQ2hyaXN0aWFuIEhvcHBzIDxjaG9wcHNAY2hvcHBz Lm9yZz47IGxzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KQ2M6IGxzci1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGxzci1hZHNAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBbTHNyXSBXRyBMYXN0IENhbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbHNy LWlzaXMtcmZjNzgxMGJpcy0wMA0KDQpLZXRhbiAtDQoNClRoYW54IGZvciB0YWtpbmcgb24gdGhl IHJvbGUgb2Ygc2hlcGhlcmQuDQoNCkkgYW0gYXR0YWNoaW5nIHNvbWUgcHJvcG9zZWQgZGlmZnMg d2hpY2ggSSB0aGluayBhZGRyZXNzZXMgeW91ciBjb25jZXJuLg0KTGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaWYgdGhp cyBzdWZmaWNlcyBhbmQgd2UgY2FuIHB1Ymxpc2ggYW4gdXBkYXRlLg0KDQogICBMZXMNCg0KDQo+ IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEtldGFuIFRhbGF1bGlrYXIgKGtl dGFudCkNCj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgSnVseSAxNywgMjAxOCA2OjU1IEFNDQo+IFRvOiBBY2Vl IExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkgPGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPjsgTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVyZykg DQo+IDxnaW5zYmVyZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+OyBDaHJpc3RpYW4gSG9wcHMgPGNob3Bwc0BjaG9wcHMu b3JnPjsgDQo+IGxzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDYzogbHNyLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgbHNyLWFk c0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogW0xzcl0gV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIGZvciBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLWxzci1pc2lzLXJmYzc4MTBiaXMtMDANCj4gDQo+IEhpIEFsbCwNCj4gDQo+IEkgd2FzIHJl dmlld2luZyB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGFzIHRoZSBTaGVwaGVyZC4gSXQgaXMgYSBmYWlybHkgc2ltcGxl IGFuZCANCj4gc3RyYWlnaHRmb3J3YXJkIGJpcyB1cGRhdGUgdG8gUkZDNzgxMCB0byBmaXggYW4g ZW5jb2RpbmcgZXJyb3IuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGVyZSBpcyBvbmUgcG9pbnQgdGhhdCBJIHdvdWxkIGxp a2UgdGhlIGF1dGhvcnMgYW5kIFdHIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIGRyYWZ0IGluIHRo ZSBhcHBlbmRpeCB0YWxrcyBhYm91dCB0d28gaW50ZXJwcmV0YXRpb25zIG9mIHRoZSANCj4gZXJy b25lb3VzIHN1Yi0gVExWcyBhbmQgZnJvbSB0aGUgY29udmVyc2F0aW9uIG9uIHRoZSBsaXN0IEkg Z2V0IHRoZSANCj4gaW1wcmVzc2lvbiB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhdCBsZWFzdCB0d28gaW1wbGVt ZW50YXRpb25zIG91dCB0aGVyZSB3aGljaCANCj4gZGlkIGRpZmZlcmVudCBpbnRlcnByZXRhdGlv bnMuIERvIHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgcHV0dGluZyBpbiBhIA0KPiBzdWdnZXN0aW9uIChp LmUuIG5vdCBub3JtYXRpdmUgcGVyaGFwcykgdGhhdCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgdXBkYXRlZCAN Cj4gdG8gdGhpcyBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIHN1Yi1UTFYgd2l0aCB0aGUgUmVz ZXJ2ZWQgZmllbGQgDQo+IGluY2x1ZGVkIGFuZCBzaXplIDU/IFNvIHRoZXkgZG9uJ3QgY29uc2lk ZXIgc3VjaCBhbiBlbmNvZGluZyBhcyBlcnJvciBvciBtYWxmb3JtZWQgb24gcmVjZXB0aW9uPw0K PiANCj4gVGhhbmtzLA0KPiBLZXRhbg0KPiANCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N Cj4gRnJvbTogTHNyIDxsc3ItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFjZWUgTGlu ZGVtIChhY2VlKQ0KPiBTZW50OiAxOCBKdW5lIDIwMTggMTc6MzgNCj4gVG86IExlcyBHaW5zYmVy ZyAoZ2luc2JlcmcpIDxnaW5zYmVyZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+OyBDaHJpc3RpYW4gSG9wcHMgDQo+IDxj aG9wcHNAY2hvcHBzLm9yZz47IGxzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBDYzogbHNyLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9y ZzsgbHNyLWFkc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0xzcl0gV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIGZv ciBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWxzci1pc2lzLXJmYzc4MTBiaXMtMDANCj4gDQo+IEhpIExlcywNCj4gWWVz IC0gdGhlIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgTGFzdCBjYWxsIGhhcyBjb21wbGV0ZWQuIFdlJ2xsIGZpbmQg YSBzaGVwaGVyZCANCj4gYW5kIHJlcXVlc3QgcHVibGljYXRpb24uDQo+IFRoYW5rcywNCj4gQWNl ZQ0KPiANCj4g77u/T24gNi8xNS8xOCwgMTA6NDkgQU0sICJMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgKGdpbnNiZXJn KSIgPGdpbnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiAgICAgV0cgY2hhaXJzIC0NCj4g DQo+ICAgICBDYW4gd2UgY29uc2lkZXIgV0cgbGFzdCBjYWxsIGNvbXBsZXRlZD8gKEl0IGhhcyBi ZWVuIG1vcmUgdGhhbiAzIA0KPiB3ZWVrcy4uLikNCj4gDQo+ICAgICBXb3VsZCByZWFsbHkgbGlr ZSB0byBnZXQgdGhpcyBzbWFsbCBidXQgaW1wb3J0YW50IGNvcnJlY3Rpb24gDQo+IHB1Ymxpc2hl ZCBBU0FQDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXw0KPiBMc3IgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IExzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xzcg0K From nobody Tue Jul 17 11:40:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781EC130E4C; 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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a81:4849:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:40:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <65fa2a7254484e82b29971edb55524e6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <65fa2a7254484e82b29971edb55524e6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:40:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: Uma Chunduri , "lsr@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006228c3057136463f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:40:10 -0000 --0000000000006228c3057136463f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > [Uma]: This helps in deployments, who is seeking source routing paradigm, but SID stack on the packet is unsustainable. This statement is applicable for both MPLS and IPv6 case. >[KT] Could we look at why the SID stack is getting "unsustainable" in the first place? I am not sure what you want to look - plz don't ask topology of a particular deployment and how the SRH/SR-MPLS path is crafted? Please see the generic example and some of the references in the draft. You have to tell me the issues summarized for various deployments (including brownfield scenarios) are not an issue. If this is not an issue there is no need for MSD capability either and all the hoops to discover this capability and work around. I don't think you can definitely say, you can limit X SR SIDs in SRH and Y labels etc.. >[KT] Dave's argument was in multicast context while he was giving the p2p example perhaps as a worst case theoretical example. IMHO we should not look at such worst case scenarios. >To me, this is a hybrid proposal to bring a hop by hop path (which is why the SID stack is so huge) like in RSVP-TE into an SR network and then try to figure out a way to do this in IGPs. You can feel free to disagree :-) This is not the worst case scenario (I just referred to the thread overall and discussion of adding a FIB entry is considered OK and being argued it is not OK stating that as considered as "state" - I feel at some level we are confusing with this and the soft state and refresh required thereof ); it could be the base scenario, depending on the deployment. -- Uma C. --0000000000006228c3057136463f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 > [Uma]:=C2=A0 This helps in deployments, who is seeking source routing paradigm, but SID stack on the packet is unsustainab= le. This statement is applicable for both MPLS and IPv6 case. =

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &= gt;[KT] Could we look at why the SID stack is getting "unsustainable" in the first place?

=C2=A0

I am= not sure what you want to look - plz don't ask topology of a particular deployment and how the SRH/SR-MPLS path is crafted?=C2=A0=

Please see the generic example and some of the references in the draft.=C2=A0 You have to tell me the issues summarized for various deployments (including brownfield scenarios) are not an issue.= =C2=A0

If this is not an issue there is no need for MSD capability either and all the hoops to discover this capability and work around. I don't think you =C2=A0can definitely say, you can limit X SR SIDs in SRH and Y labels etc..

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <= span>=C2=A0>[KT] Dave's argument was in multicast context while he was giving the p2p example perhaps as a worst case theoret= ical example. IMHO we should not look at such worst case scenarios.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <= span>=C2=A0>To me, this is a hybrid proposal to bring a hop by hop path (which is why the SID stack is so huge) like in RSVP-TE i= nto an SR network and then try to figure out a way to do this in IGPs. You can = feel free to disagree :-)

=C2=A0

= This is not the worst case scenario (I just referred to the thread overall and discussion of adding a FIB entry is considered OK= =C2=A0and being argued it is not OK=C2=A0stating that as considered as = = =C2=A0"state" - I feel at some level we are confusing with this and the soft state and refresh required thereof ); = it could be the base scenario, depending on the deployment.

=C2=A0

--

Uma = C.


--0000000000006228c3057136463f-- From nobody Tue Jul 17 11:43:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2BA130EF3; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sPgU46sCt9kt; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x235.google.com (mail-yb0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 887A5130E2A; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x235.google.com with SMTP id s1-v6so826604ybk.3; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=idgWpuCjcU7L5hfS9rq/ZJsR8gu8tpOzOm0RITKqsFc=; b=qWNsjwJMn1b1yJw7rPIoIn5pmEBiYULEa1R1hbhPzMkMvDnUWVgs0jImUk9tquHLPM Ht3whhvOIEt5YyTB9gQ0dBCahWw0Z40y+x/a4v0pN/OcNxTgpmynRGKTgXm+nj/qsFA2 1voDdmkjUZQ7G3rTv/ldCf0oPXOo7gMPtd7yn23nqyYbhPO3VUN8h9v8kawZQkyA6ZC/ QMuIPq+GlXWLxt9/cKcfqMFuL8bB9YLlMBJAni8ihH4qEhL9wQim3dEUmac7ghRs4vjv PDT/Zi5mE6IXa4OR4N2RSJFMyNVl2wnoK5jsZnJhUGnDVihy7KiFQHYBVSvpaw0L2PAR +fBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=idgWpuCjcU7L5hfS9rq/ZJsR8gu8tpOzOm0RITKqsFc=; b=QZQbvZkLUXpLddQ42nalWvW+SFB1f/8o3dd6cka4vSCdbn6rP6gUwGvZpk+8QOU1bQ MmX8InZOJRauIEgoiF4XxbE6fNbnKjspCQK6cjiyqHtyQAeQq892UIEIBgpn3oMZPrs3 SS3CEC+VHh3yXzKcNJwAU/CLX0WQp5L4r7JrJJbTtn7LoIVeGjaASj16FsSWyz7JK7UZ or48PGklhIenOs86p5Yc8S19DrwBXojByuA+DHtnO2BliVv7Ys0Ij1jOuDYvswVlqjF/ wh2+I/SWXQ40LK182xf1IGeYdLM1rRs3H40ILRii+OYy154AtgAjTiTUEkhRaGi4o4lj BJCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEfh1PqPz44iZSsMsG30V2SLsh7090j6y4qHl/g3kzpYJoT9bK+ Q2Os1FOb1yT7lzy2Zy3PBqt5d6LBCOh4ORhxGPo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdOX1rFscOgt7LmXtw8T3B4bhMjNrQ5I7zzDeKNjNhIhb2d3VT+AA9r5osp9y2S4tEXijtaxe1Jfjm1kzR+iy0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bec5:: with SMTP id k5-v6mr1489502ybm.399.1531853018797; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a81:4849:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 11:43:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9c5c3e8313aa44f7bff40f5a64e7d59f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <9c5c3e8313aa44f7bff40f5a64e7d59f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:43:38 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Uma Chunduri , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000008a2160571365307" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:43:42 -0000 --00000000000008a2160571365307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Les - in-line .. > > Although I will certainly consider the additional response you seem to > have hinted at in your reply to Peter, it seems to me that Section 6 of > your draft acknowledges that there is a scaling problem [Uma]: What it says is there is no scale issue in certain deployments where only limited number of pats are required (examples given). In that case you don't need any *further extensions* as referred. As we noted this is fully backward compatible for SR-MPLS and SRH data planes and one can go ahead and use it one can't find a path and SID depth is an issue (in terms of any of these, HW compatibility, Line rate, header tax or MTU). > - and then references what seems to be a non-existent draft (I could not > find "draft-ce-ppr-graph-00" ???) as a proposed solution. > [Uma]: This will be posted soon, few things are being worked out. This helps in certain cases (you will see soon), where you want to scale optimized paths. > > In any further response you make it would be good if you did indicate > whether you agree PPR has a scaling issue - [Uma]: Plz see above.. > Thanx. > > Les > > --00000000000008a2160571365307 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Les -

in-line

..
=C2=A0

Although I will certainly consider the additional response you seem to have= hinted at in your reply to Peter, it seems to me that Section 6 of your dr= aft acknowledges that there is a scaling problem

[Uma]:=C2=A0 What it says is there is no scale issue in certain deplo= yments where only limited number of pats are required (examples given).=C2= =A0 In that case you don't need any *further extensions* as referred.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As we noted this = is fully backward compatible for SR-MPLS and SRH data planes and one can go= ahead and use it one can't find a path and SID depth is an issue (in t= erms of=C2=A0 any of these, HW compatibility, Line rate, header tax or MTU)= .=C2=A0
=C2=A0
- and then re= ferences what seems to be a non-existent draft (I could not find "draf= t-ce-ppr-graph-00" ???) as a proposed solution.
= =C2=A0
[Uma]: This will be posted soon, few things are being work= ed out. This helps in certain cases (you will see soon), where you want to = scale optimized paths.
=C2=A0

In any further response you make it would be good if you did indicate wheth= er you agree PPR has a scaling issue -

[Um= a]: Plz see above..


Thanx.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les

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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 Thread-Index: AQHT8qrGJqItV2jLOk6/uKLGp9vNZ6RhijtQgAUplACALWYVgP//58jwgABk/gD//9Y7MIAABNUA Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 21:17:15 +0000 Message-ID: <645AE1B0-8EEF-46C4-879D-E93B4AF12808@cisco.com> References: <87y3gatmql.fsf@chopps.org> <45c18832cc9143f9b6fff0c1da4b742c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <6623B634-A565-454C-AD4E-E2DE28C89B93@cisco.com> <4dbe9a99763d4d39a320fcf498303eda@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <7e2032fa396b4f89b57c64fd4cbc4d7a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7e2032fa396b4f89b57c64fd4cbc4d7a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.123.54] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 21:17:23 -0000 RldJVyAtIEkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBMZXMuIFdlIHJlYWxseSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIHN1cHBvcnQg Ym90aCBpbnRlcnByZXRhdGlvbnMgb2YgdGhlIGFtYmlndW91cyBlbmNvZGluZy4gDQpUaGFua3Ms DQpBY2VlIA0KDQrvu79PbiA3LzE3LzE4LCA1OjA2IFBNLCAiTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVy ZykiIDxnaW5zYmVyZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQogICAgS2V0YW4gLQ0KICAgIA0KICAg IEkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byBiZSBvdmVybHkgcHJlc2NyaXB0aXZlIGhlcmUuDQogICAgVGhlIG5l ZWQgZm9yIHN1cHBvcnRpbmcgYmFja3dhcmRzIGNvbXBhdGliaWxpdHkgaXMgbGltaXRlZCBieSB0 aGUgYW1vdW50IG9mIGV4aXN0aW5nIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgYnkgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIHRoYXQg 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 95475130E46; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:28:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.82.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153186293558.12801.3135134244413513055@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:28:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 21:28:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Spencer Giacolone Dave Ward John Drake Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2018-07-17 Abstract: In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network- performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to data-path selection as other metrics. This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information can be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion. The information distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to make path-selection decisions based on network performance. Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which network-performance information is distributed. The mechanisms for measuring network performance or acting on that information, once distributed, are outside the scope of this document. This document obsoletes RFC 7810. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 17 14:31:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92AE0130E4B; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aUWlqnmZr1m0; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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"Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 Thread-Index: AQHT8qrGJqItV2jLOk6/uKLGp9vNZ6RhijtQgAUplACALWYVgP//58jwgABk/gD//9Y7MIAACKBw Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 21:31:34 +0000 Message-ID: <553aae77d96c4ae497f535928b58ed76@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <87y3gatmql.fsf@chopps.org> <45c18832cc9143f9b6fff0c1da4b742c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <6623B634-A565-454C-AD4E-E2DE28C89B93@cisco.com> <4dbe9a99763d4d39a320fcf498303eda@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <7e2032fa396b4f89b57c64fd4cbc4d7a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7e2032fa396b4f89b57c64fd4cbc4d7a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.23.93] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:26:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000120a3b0571396f86" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:26:18 -0000 --000000000000120a3b0571396f86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Saku Ytti Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 5:17 PM Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 To: umac.ietf@gmail.com Cc: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org, "Horneffer, Martin" , Edward Crabbe < edward.crabbe@gmail.com>, robjs@google.com, milojevicigor@gmail.com, sluong@cisco.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org Not aware of any IPR. On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 at 00:16, Uma Chunduri wrote: > > Dear All, > > All authors have responded to the IPR Poll. > > Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond to the IPR Poll > - Martin H. > - Edward C. > - Rob S. > - Igor M. > - Saku Y. > > Please respond to the LSR list thread. > > -- > Uma C. > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri wrote: >> >> Still need one author's and couple of contributors response for the above subject. >> >> Please respond to the LSR list thread. >> >> -- >> Uma C. > > -- ++ytti --000000000000120a3b0571396f86 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

---------- Forwarded messag= e ----------
From: Saku Ytti <saku@ytti.fi>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on d= raft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
To: umac.ietf@gmail.com
Cc: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-= extensions@ietf.org, "Horneffer, Martin" <Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de>, Edward = Crabbe <edward.crabbe@gmail.c= om>, robjs@google.com, milojevicigor@gmail.com, sluong@cisco.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org


Not aware of any IPR.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2018 at 00:16, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> All authors have responded to the IPR Poll.
>
> Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond to the IPR Po= ll
>=C2=A0 - Martin H.
>=C2=A0 - Edward C.
>=C2=A0 - Rob S.
>=C2=A0 - Igor M.
> - Saku Y.
>
> Please respond to the LSR list thread.
>
> --
> Uma C.
>
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Still need one author's and couple of contributors response fo= r the above subject.
>>
>> Please respond to=C2=A0 the LSR list thread.
>>
>> --
>> Uma C.
>
>


--
=C2=A0 ++ytti

--000000000000120a3b0571396f86-- From nobody Tue Jul 17 15:27:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA83130FD9 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qMtiNB63cjXt for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x235.google.com (mail-ua0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D41FA131002 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x235.google.com with SMTP id t14-v6so1703509uao.8 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4fJiOurzosq6C8f0SMCC0sdMQGFOta9o8wJDGHJtm1Q=; b=r6b7RvrFIqmWmHGe4Jfk9p1F9Qba100YL2/l3qy4t75hHcflSdEN+2MeChXA+5W422 AzD/VPry1DF7usZpfLaeSfS+VntE8x21enHMO7g2kCSLtOeBgsW1ZAdr1YZcfE+wDMvr Y6nh/NzI4mDezO9wqjtpOEAINhP0Xut1nvGvsZ7U88w9jDXJvHuBN/pjbG6bMPff23sc /txFAEyzldgwyU1bb7Oncanhw6Tk0E0MjqkEdY+ZmSDi9E6TgIZIRGGPzizu0Rn9vQ+v dnnH7QWPuhO15VZYm0tB4wGv/A4Ncfz3uw324ob6DN53hG8BYrpW6txAfpq/ja86rTTo kZkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=4fJiOurzosq6C8f0SMCC0sdMQGFOta9o8wJDGHJtm1Q=; b=NZZNpkHjLZYAn8zSNDz5lcr62PUnToCqIAw+/Z+wH/St5A3N8MJ5X/hOpz4DpUn9DO 8mMK3SlD4cdDW2ff1K17ri7in4tcnupBik7auv4tcLpV6Pr0/vWR/bjIzyFBIjCULZ13 4i2JT98Rijn5fFhOaVY/N4jLTRBOYrjz+HyyukDBu02HSXqKc1nOK9OXL43Nf3RMeblG P9i/HW0DYhIQh85fML/6vt7Zqu0OK4ual1ZTDtAGJKWn6IfcZoom0dbGIQZ35HkVDonR sbKnkb2sJm+jtv0SpsTphCId3s1u/A3niNldfzodiou+ALLGOLsom9gnXTJtmf7F6aMb qzew== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHLYEkjeE5qgJjuTal3JBHwDC6aJEdAm8yuRiUbhdmtzN+s1q82 ALn7vP+3o97mWI+3OpOJxuzO95bSLprSAEp4dx8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpd0amxyny8g+oamKIp08Byv+NQjRYg89pEnCKRmlBdecWRlOaqbmssDAbbSdJcMtgntqTWjmuzGonfrbRrMN/I= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:6654:: with SMTP id b20-v6mr2462764uaq.193.1531866404930; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a67:153:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:26:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:26:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e8c9b405713970f2" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:27:05 -0000 --000000000000e8c9b405713970f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Igor Milojevic Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 1:27 AM Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 To: Uma Chunduri Cc: Edward Crabbe , Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de, Rob Shakir , Saku Ytti , draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, sluong@cisco.com Not aware of any IPR related. Igor On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 at 23:16, Uma Chunduri wrote: > Dear All, > > All authors have responded to the IPR Poll. > > Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond to the IPR Poll > - Martin H. > - Edward C. > - Rob S. > - Igor M. > - Saku Y. > > Please respond to the LSR list thread. > > -- > Uma C. > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > >> Still need one author's and couple of contributors response for the above >> subject. >> >> Please respond to the LSR list thread. >> >> -- >> Uma C. >> > > --000000000000e8c9b405713970f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

---------- Forwarded messag= e ----------
From: Igor Milojevic <milojevicigor@= gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 1:27 AM
Subject: = Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
= To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail= .com>
Cc: Edward Crabbe <edward.crabbe@gmail.com>, Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de, Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com>, Saku Ytti <saku@ytti.fi>, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensio= ns@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org= , sluong@cisco.com


<= div>
Not aware of any IPR related.

Ig= or

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 at 23:16, Uma Chun= duri <umac.ietf= @gmail.com> wrote:
Dea= r All,

All authors have responded to the IPR Poll.

Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond = to the IPR Poll=C2=A0
=C2=A0- Martin H.
=C2=A0- Edward = C.
=C2=A0- Rob S.
=C2=A0- Igor M.
- Saku Y.

Please respond to the LSR lis= t thread.

--
Uma C.

On Fri, Ju= n 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Still need one author's and couple of= contributors response for the above subject.

Please res= pond to=C2=A0 the LSR list thread.

--
Um= a C.


--000000000000e8c9b405713970f2-- From nobody Tue Jul 17 15:27:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25642130FC8 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1DRXwZMp2HRL for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x229.google.com (mail-vk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 261EC131002 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x229.google.com with SMTP id h22-v6so1461482vke.4 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=A4rxO77zK+qcyLbBtilU3eTpGKII6XoDCeQ4g6fDi3E=; b=jj7WysNDqyw0SBuhQ/QQEvUOwky7GCG5Zhgpegwe6nRPSHJsWKtEqzR9tARWK26iSP uh2b6ZY5BBREsdDLLmpDBqpEYSmVJxHhs/7BINyJ5n2vNU40dhTMG4Tfg4lyg8KJrLTD LrZ3oeRChM8QDXA7ZAa6pYKPRrPMMNCpbNk79GDQ0zu+ynwRpE3V2iiczzdxV1tC7jxS w/hpompDrh4JKAKzpAf5nhDaSAw4vq3tXs5r4V59B8i3lHpyJ0oHFQn9MNcYlmo4AALB 3ws4M2h/hz/DjsMYzH5nAjvCAxQzUQMQuWJeAHqbuZqjjtW628YRrUtd4nz6N1/XaKgj Q+mQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=A4rxO77zK+qcyLbBtilU3eTpGKII6XoDCeQ4g6fDi3E=; b=Jz5n192pHk8NXDntoi6DJSm0epcFi+B7RlmIDDcBePvnIPfMvYrDs4yAPZEa4fyw9c DTSM2ijeHxNoaYsRKAceY+HskI1SD2YtoTmacNP2ZOAccMDBq+622tJvSqYkZA3G0qHh T6noJReaehYtL+HZEb+CpWxyJF/8UjFjRIHuL06nliUBFGabmBwZsSHbZz6V16mVdeXP ncTAAiyeHG6Zoc7u8vmYQIRCxW1yDR1w7iTh05hMFHMzTlWo+I/5Tr6dh7sFxWF2n6Ch 8ZuZ0sw1W62tvTgKdzFfeUSHff5hZdSJddNxK1eBpPDl2PNQ0/YmGqFHRSE35KZBqgKn wL6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHUVp4UVzsBC6LleYWjbGYma7vo8LWl9PtBHgLTsStLW40ysDju NFdknoez35C57L6spKurvn1lMgRiSL4aStW/dvs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdAkwsJY7OVh+ImzOF7u4nwfFubdgnhgW4uzoUS5J75YEmBJKTk4uT3X1dJ+nS3yjaNRqL8G6ucuDWAU0sS8eU= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:acc4:: with SMTP id v187-v6mr1931238vke.32.1531866443123; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a67:153:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:27:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:27:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002f8e46057139737d" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 22:27:40 -0000 --0000000000002f8e46057139737d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rob Shakir Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:52 PM Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 To: Saku Ytti Cc: umac.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org, "Horneffer, Martin" , Edward Crabbe < edward.crabbe@gmail.com>, milojevicigor@gmail.com, sluong@cisco.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org I am not aware of any IPR other than that already disclosed. Thanks, r. > > --0000000000002f8e46057139737d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

---------- Forwarded messag= e ----------
From: Rob Shakir <robjs@google.com><= /span>
Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: IPR Poll follo= w up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
To: Saku Ytti <= saku@ytti.fi>
Cc: umac.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routin= g-extensions@ietf.org, "Horneffer, Martin" <Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de>, Edwar= d Crabbe <edward.crabbe@gmail= .com>, milojevicigor@gmai= l.com, sluong@cisco.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org


I am not aware of any IPR other than that already disclosed.
=
Thanks,
r.

<= br>
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2018 04:32:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:32:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement Authors : Peter Psenak Ketan Jivan Talaulikar Wim Henderickx Padma Pillay-Esnault Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-07-18 Abstract: Every OSPF interface is assigned an identifier, Interface ID, which uniquely identifies the interface on the router. In some cases it is useful to know the Interface ID assigned by the adjacent router on its side of the adjacency (Remote Interface ID). This draft describes the extensions to OSPF link-local signalling to advertise the Local Interface Identifier. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 18 08:23:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447D7130F2B; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 08:23:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3z_1Inzx1XT; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 08:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EFFE131167; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 08:23:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1297; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1531927419; x=1533137019; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vsIqsfbw/IS9rhFlgF0ldUswy5G6Oie6WpKPkWfCjUc=; b=jWPLoOla2owa/PsptSmGlIkHTx9hotD9zsRM8/fYm/gNoy4bdSAhVSgh 1EhVL3SGcva1BkfoC1Lsw65bdHUHmKnVpnOw6kmh7WQacw9AHLZWdD2PK mGaZLLeFvFQXyRv8NmU3L6ZavGNpHsbrojmGv0VqXUsGzbg0n5vza/8sK s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,370,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="5197913" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 18 Jul 2018 15:23:37 +0000 Received: from [10.86.242.4] (che-vpn-cluster-2-4.cisco.com [10.86.242.4]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6IFNZUN029454; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 15:23:36 GMT Message-ID: <5B4F5B76.30002@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 11:23:34 -0400 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uma Chunduri , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" References: <5a180e3dc86047beb3991ad8b1d6d54d@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F192C@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5B4DF040.6050004@cisco.com> <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854135F1997@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 15:23:42 -0000 Hi Uma, On 17/07/18 09:43 , Uma Chunduri wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:34 AM > To: Uma Chunduri ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; lsr@ietf.org > Cc: spring@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Concerns with draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-preferred-path-routing > > > > flex-algo is NOT a per path state. It's a regular prefix-SID, which is bound to a prefix only. > > Not quite. I will come back to this bit later. please do so, as I don't know what do you mean by "Not quite". > > >The problem with your proposal is that you flood all paths to all routers in the area and ask every router to evaluate all of them and see which of them may apply. This scale poorly. > > Please see Section 6, in 01 version. the section 6 points to a solution that does not exist as of yet. I can only comment once it is available, but the fact that you need an extra hooks to address the scalability just confirms the limited scaling property of the basic proposal. thanks, Peter > > -- > Uma C. > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > . > From nobody Thu Jul 19 07:35:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB7341310DE; Thu, 19 Jul 2018 07:34:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.82.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153201088176.5295.7684252053090060455@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 07:34:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-19.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 14:34:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Stefano Previdi Les Ginsberg Clarence Filsfils Ahmed Bashandy Hannes Gredler Stephane Litkowski Bruno Decraene Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-19.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2018-07-19 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF). This draft describes the necessary IS-IS extensions that need to be introduced for Segment Routing operating on an MPLS data-plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jul 21 13:35:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2EA1292F1 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2018 13:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZjkmyTdoLs0 for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2018 13:35:39 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Lindem (acee)" To: Uma Chunduri CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 Thread-Index: AQHUITJhkJPhUOUKe0i3lXgBcrSMmQ== Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2018 20:35:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <79ED960E-DA77-43A1-8764-E466F56F62A1@gmail.com> <39ADDFD9-8137-45E4-9D7B-F7062CDB2F00@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <39ADDFD9-8137-45E4-9D7B-F7062CDB2F00@oracle.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B07575BAF9BF49E9A52FE3EE84ED0F76ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] FW: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: 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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 01:07:47 -0000 --000000000000ce4bfe0571a04568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sure, thx Acee. Write-up has been updated to reflect on this (and few other things as well). Hope chairs can move this draft to the next stage. -- Uma C. On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Uma, > > Here is the response from Ed. Since things were hectic at IETF 102, I > neglected to forward it to the list. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > *From: *Edward Crabbe > *Date: *Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 7:56 PM > *To: *Jeff Tantsura > *Cc: *"draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" < > draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment- > routing-extensions-16 > *Resent-From: * > *Resent-To: *Acee Lindem , Christian Hopps < > chopps@chopps.org>, Yingzhen Qu > *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 7:57 PM > > > > > > Apologies for the dilatory response; apparently there is an issue with > list mail on the account listed for this draft. > > > > I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft. > > > > On Jul 18, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > Please respond ASAP > > > > > > *From:* Uma Chunduri > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:32 PM > *To:* draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org > *Cc:* lsr-chairs@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment- > routing-extensions-16 > > > > Dear Authors, > > > > > > Edward C. didn't respond his IPR response (despite multiple reminders). > > > > Per Chris one option is to try few more days (may be his mail ID changed > and one of the authors can contact him) or else remove him from the > contributors list to quickly move forward. > > > > Once that is done, I have to make small update in the write up (regarding > the IPR poll status) and chairs can take the next steps. > > > > Best, > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > All authors have responded to the IPR Poll. > > > > Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond to the IPR Poll > > - Martin H. > > - Edward C. > > - Rob S. > > - Igor M. > > - Saku Y. > > > > Please respond to the LSR list thread. > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > > Still need one author's and couple of contributors response for the above > subject. > > > > Please respond to the LSR list thread. > > > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > > > > > > > --000000000000ce4bfe0571a04568 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure, thx Acee.

Write-up has been updat= ed to reflect on this (and few other things as well).=C2=A0

<= /div>
Hope chairs can move this=C2=A0draft=C2=A0to the next stage.

--
Uma C.

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Acee Li= ndem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Uma, <= /u>

Here is the respons= e from Ed. Since things were hectic at IETF 102, I neglected to forward it = to the list.

Thanks,

Acee<= /span>

From: Edward Crabbe <<= a href=3D"mailto:edward.crabbe@oracle.com" target=3D"_blank">edward.crabbe@= oracle.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 7:56 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant@gmail.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensi= ons@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-segment-routi= ng-extensions@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-rout= ing-extensions-16
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>
Resent-To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.qu= @huawei.com>
Resent-Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 7:57 PM

=C2=A0

Apologies for the d= ilatory response; apparently there is an issue with list mail on the accoun= t listed for this draft.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I am not aware of a= ny IPR related to this draft.

=C2=A0

On Jul 18, 2018, at= 4:42 PM, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant@gmail.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Please respond ASAP=



=C2=A0

From: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com<= span>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 3:32 PM
To: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-= extensions@ietf.org
Cc: = lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: IPR Poll follow up on draft-ietf-isis-segment-rout= ing-extensions-16

=C2=A0

Dear Authors,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Edward C. didn't respond his IPR response (despite multiple remin= ders).

=C2=A0

Per Chris one option is to try few more days (may be his mail ID chan= ged and one of the authors can contact him)=C2=A0 or else=C2=A0 remove him = from the contributors list to quickly move forward.

=C2=A0

Once that is done, I have to make small update in the write up (regar= ding the IPR poll status) and chairs can take the next steps.=

=C2=A0

Best,

=C2=A0

--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

=C2=A0

All authors have responded to the IPR Poll.

=C2=A0

Still couple of contributors (as listed) need to respond to the IPR P= oll=C2=A0

=C2=A0- Martin H.

=C2=A0- Edward C.

=C2=A0- Rob S.

=C2=A0- Igor M.

- Saku Y.

=C2=A0

Please respond to the LSR list thread.

=C2=A0

--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Still need one author's and couple of contributors response for t= he above subject.

=C2=A0

Please respond to=C2=A0 the LSR list thread.

=C2=A0

--

Uma C.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0




--000000000000ce4bfe0571a04568-- From nobody Mon Jul 23 00:49:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596E5130E1E for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 00:49:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DC_PNG_UNO_LARGO=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_08=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fgjqC6gjGwh1 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 00:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m176115.mail.qiye.163.com (m176115.mail.qiye.163.com [59.111.176.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08502130E57 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 00:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m176115.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 0F0D3662129; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:49:18 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Peter Psenak'" , Cc: , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 15:49:16 +0800 Message-ID: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01D4229C.B6843FF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQiVR2O/y14KzohRb+x/lA57qn80AAA8B+w Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kIGBQJHllBS1VLV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWS1ZQUlXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6MDI6MDo*TDoiPTQoTzwrFDEo ThQaCTNVSlVKTkhJSEhJSk1NTkxNVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWVdZCAFZQU9KTUJJNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a64c61d2d3d9373kuws0f0d3662129 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:49:34 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01D4229C.B6843FF0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01D4229C.B6843FF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01D4229C.B6843FF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_002_0019_01D4229C.B6843FF0" ------=_NextPart_002_0019_01D4229C.B6843FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please reply on this thread within the LSR wg) Hi, Peter: I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about "OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval", which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 meeting. Thanks for your comments on the presentation material . Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about "how it retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information": Let's see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 of the draft(I copy it also below for your conveniences ): Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and router S2 that locates in area 1: 1) Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA 2) When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it into summary LSA, add the "Source Router Information", which is router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. 3) R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the prefixes of N1 is from S1. 4) Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 5) Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered accordingly. Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add it into the context of this draft in updated version. Best Regards. Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. ------=_NextPart_002_0019_01D4229C.B6843FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

(Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the = IDR mail list, please reply on this thread within the LSR = wg)

 

Hi, Peter:

 

I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, = the author of draft about “OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval”, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the = IETF102 meeting.

Thanks for your comments on the presentation = material.

Below are my explanation that regarding to the question = about “how it retrievals the inter-area topology based on the = extension information”:

 

Let’s see the graph that = illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 of the draft(I copy it also below for = your conveniences ):

 

 

Assuming we want to rebuild the = connection between router S1 and router S2 that locates in area = 1:

1)       = Normally, router S1 = will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA

2)       = When this router LSA = reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it into summary LSA, add the = “Source Router Information”, which is router id of S1 in = this example, as proposed in this draft.

3)       = R1 then floods this = extension summary LSA to R0, which is running BGP-LS protocol with IP = SDN Controller. The controller then knows the prefixes of N1 is from = S1.

4)       = Router S2 will do the = similar process, and the controller will also knows the prefixes N1 is = also from S2

5)       = Then it can = reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which prefix is N1. The = topology within Area 1 can then be recovered accordingly. =   

 

Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, = I can add it into the context of this draft in updated = version.

 

 

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation = Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, China.

 

 

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------=_NextPart_001_0018_01D4229C.B6843FF0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01D4229C.B6843FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00017.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00017.txt" _______________________________________________ Idr mailing list Idr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01D4229C.B6843FF0-- From nobody Mon Jul 23 01:14:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27627130E35 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 01:14:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RupaFX9Eo9Hx for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 01:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C87EC130E17 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 01:14:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2503; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532333689; x=1533543289; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DpWmXzu7gp4JLYJF/XNaTEslzABR/O3W43dWaMG4+ds=; b=de/ffjoBFkuxpcABfSDt/CgHfJaAAwnuVaenVwB41QuyMFhk3X75OIt1 bdNSsF/o87PDL7QsxiacUdYSGVcrfuv+sBATfKNw9SipyUStMQImwHztU QhJaK+pF8V9iIw+lHORfWG3Y+3cWF1L7Nn6xv64IPEatvJBp+Os3UHUL+ k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,392,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="146268345" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Jul 2018 08:14:49 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6N8ElAl013362; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 08:14:47 GMT Message-ID: <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 10:14:46 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aijun Wang , chopps@chopps.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" , "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 08:14:52 -0000 Hi Aijun, you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does not work because: 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. In summary, what you propose does not work. thanks, Peter On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please > reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > > Hi, Peter: > > I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about OSPF > extension for inter-area topology retrieval > , > which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 meeting. > > Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > . > > Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about how it > retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information: > > Lets see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 > > of the draft(I copy it also below for your conveniences ): > > Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and router > S2 that locates in area 1: > > 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA > > 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it > into summary LSA, add the Source Router Information, which is router > id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > > 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running > BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the > prefixes of N1 is from S1. > > 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also > knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > > 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which prefix > is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered accordingly. > > Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add it > into the context of this draft in updated version. > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > From nobody Mon Jul 23 02:16:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734B7130DDF for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 02:16:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.008 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.008 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=2.899, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q-cpelmhDGWc for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 02:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1683B1277D2 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 02:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 8B0CF143ACE; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:16:13 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Peter Psenak'" , Cc: , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 17:16:11 +0800 Message-ID: <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQiXUg/7S7poHuFTa6MvY7URwd/pQAB/QPw Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Nz46Dyo*NjotVjQ#GUgsT04SDRkKChRVSlVKTkhJ SEhMSENIQkpDVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQU5JSU03V1kSC1lBWUlKQlVKT0lVTUJVTExZBg++ X-HM-Tid: 0a64c66cc2467f6bkuuk8b0cf143ace Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BGIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBm?= =?gb2312?b?b3IgaW50ZXItYXJlYSB0b3BvbG9neSByZXRyaWV2YWw=?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 09:16:31 -0000 Hi, Peter: Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the = numbered interface, which are normal in our network. For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the = possible solutions and feedback you later. For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other = questions then? Best Regards. Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA7=D4=C223=C8=D5 16:15 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem = (acee)'; 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval Hi Aijun, you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on = the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does not work because: 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be = connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. In summary, what you propose does not work. thanks, Peter On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please=20 > reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > > Hi, Peter: > > I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =A1=B0OSPF=20 > extension for inter-area topology retrieval=A1=B1 > ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102=20 > meeting. > > Thanks for your comments on the presentation material=20 > . > > Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =A1=B0how it=20 > retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension = information=A1=B1: > > Let=A1=AFs see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3=20 > xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your=20 > conveniences ): > > Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and=20 > router > S2 that locates in area 1: > > 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA > > 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it=20 > into summary LSA, add the =A1=B0Source Router Information=A1=B1, which = is router=20 > id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > > 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running=20 > BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the=20 > prefixes of N1 is from S1. > > 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also=20 > knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > > 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which=20 > prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered accordingly. > > Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add=20 > it into the context of this draft in updated version. > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Mon Jul 23 03:19:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8146A130E17 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 03:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uhQ1choO7cW5 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 03:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AB59127598 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 03:19:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4023; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532341176; x=1533550776; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=a9+AXVkndGCHxKLmbESwNtWkDXZnebgxcrtrsXhqrPw=; b=VP7JLJ3old7tdDmrurxgze4SoTTIvlypxL4hxogTOvgrXN7PmRMIqqva 30U0cA9nBxZfnZQuRkjKuvwFU6WcrfO9fHGtBBuM6A1ZHLb/FFyoyWMQ3 xFU0UrwABgcZLvCxny2yaheBkF1Uuq2YnklQRO6NYF7viraLhoP4z+Wt5 w=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,393,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="146877194" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Jul 2018 10:19:35 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6NAJX29031138; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 10:19:34 GMT Message-ID: <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 12:19:33 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aijun Wang , "'Peter Psenak'" , chopps@chopps.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BGIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBm?= =?gb2312?b?b3IgaW50ZXItYXJlYSB0b3BvbG9neSByZXRyaWV2YWw=?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 10:19:39 -0000 Hi Aijun, On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Peter: > > Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the numbered > interface, which are normal in our network. > For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the possible > solutions and feedback you later. > > For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other questions > then? the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they are connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. The idea you are proposing simply does not work. thanks, Peter > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > -----ʼԭ----- > : Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] > ʱ: 2018723 16:15 > ռ: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org > : lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > : Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval > > Hi Aijun, > > you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on the > fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does not work > because: > > 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be connected > via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. > > In summary, what you propose does not work. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please >> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >> >> Hi, Peter: >> >> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about OSPF >> extension for inter-area topology retrieval >> > ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 >> meeting. >> >> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >> > r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >> >> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about how it >> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information: >> >> Lets see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 >> > xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your >> conveniences ): >> >> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and >> router >> S2 that locates in area 1: >> >> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA >> >> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it >> into summary LSA, add the Source Router Information, which is router >> id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >> >> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running >> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the >> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >> >> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also >> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >> >> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which >> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > accordingly. >> >> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add >> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Aijun Wang >> >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >> >> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > China. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Mon Jul 23 04:07:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D178D130E6F for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PCGGOafI3T_n for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (m88102.mail.qiye.163.com [106.2.88.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99C0130E6D for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 7BA6C4279B; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:07:40 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Peter Psenak'" , Cc: , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:07:38 +0800 Message-ID: <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQibrpsHc6O2WhISBWkZYHRwC1xLwAA8G4w Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6NBw6Iyo5KzoiITRWNQwCLRU1LSwwCkhVSlVKTkhJ SE9PS0xLSE1CVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUxITkw3V1kSC1lBWUlKQlVKT0lVTUJVTExZBg++ X-HM-Tid: 0a64c6d2cb389865kuuu7ba6c4279b Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICBSZWdhcmRpbmcgT1NQRiBleHRl?= =?gb2312?b?bnNpb24gZm9yIGludGVyLWFyZWEgdG9wb2xvZ3kgcmV0cmlldmFs?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:07:58 -0000 Hi, Peter: For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. DR = and DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then = the process and proposal described in this draft will still work. We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore = it then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no = larger than /32 for IPv4 network. Best Regards. Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA7=D4=C223=C8=D5 18:20 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem = (acee)'; 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Lsr] =B4=F0=B8=B4: Regarding OSPF extension for = inter-area topology retrieval Hi Aijun, On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Peter: >=20 > Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the=20 > numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the=20 > possible solutions and feedback you later. >=20 > For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other=20 > questions then? the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they = are connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. The idea you are proposing simply does not work. thanks, Peter >=20 > Best Regards. >=20 > Aijun Wang > Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation = > Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA7=D4=C223=C8=D5 16:15 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org > =B3=AD=CB=CD: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem = (acee)';=20 > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area = topology=20 > retrieval >=20 > Hi Aijun, >=20 > you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on = > the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does=20 > not work > because: >=20 > 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be=20 > connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. >=20 > In summary, what you propose does not work. >=20 > thanks, > Peter >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please = >> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >> >> Hi, Peter: >> >> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =A1=B0OSPF=20 >> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=A1=B1 >> > l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102=20 >> meeting. >> >> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >> > f-inte > r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >> >> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =A1=B0how it=20 >> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension = information=A1=B1: >> >> Let=A1=AFs see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3=20 >> > e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your=20 >> conveniences ): >> >> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and=20 >> router >> S2 that locates in area 1: >> >> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA >> >> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it=20 >> into summary LSA, add the =A1=B0Source Router Information=A1=B1, = which is=20 >> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >> >> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running=20 >> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the = >> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >> >> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also = >> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >> >> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which=20 >> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > accordingly. >> >> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add = >> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Aijun Wang >> >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >> >> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > China. >> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >=20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Mon Jul 23 04:30:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0B3130E6F for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:30:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XRfjhPkiH2Lh for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EB0B130E5D for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 04:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6034; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532345405; x=1533555005; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5HFdgusS4qaBvIdpcNNCQt7615bhVmH8smtPwJBP9Ak=; b=bqd9NsZ7BHyGl5XJE9C9942DW8wddH3TiQuAweBj+HhawkCbZbD7kpET Dpiocb3Pflxac6UgjBWyhe4idq3GCES2ArEYC2+h3RmuCrvP34HNlg3Pb I9yvnwkymU/zZqKZy5C6c4R8XmhnqyHny3+qzGzyRIvEH9KhLh+baQoKF g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,393,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="146952763" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Jul 2018 11:30:04 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6NBU0HN032524; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:30:01 GMT Message-ID: <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 13:30:00 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aijun Wang , chopps@chopps.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICBSZWdhcmRpbmcgT1NQRiBleHRl?= =?gb2312?b?bnNpb24gZm9yIGludGVyLWFyZWEgdG9wb2xvZ3kgcmV0cmlldmFs?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 11:30:07 -0000 Hi Aijun, On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Peter: > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would include the interface address only. > DR and > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then the > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore it > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only for a specific one. > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no larger > than /32 for IPv4 network. protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. thanks, Peter > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > -----ʼԭ----- > : Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] > ʱ: 2018723 18:20 > ռ: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org > : lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > : Re: [Lsr] : Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology > retrieval > > Hi Aijun, > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> Hi, Peter: >> >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the >> possible solutions and feedback you later. >> >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> questions then? > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they are > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Aijun Wang >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. >> >> -----ʼԭ----- >> : Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] >> ʱ: 2018723 16:15 >> ռ: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org >> : lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >> : Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology >> retrieval >> >> Hi Aijun, >> >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does >> not work >> because: >> >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. >> >> In summary, what you propose does not work. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >> >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >>> >>> Hi, Peter: >>> >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about OSPF >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval >>> >> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 >>> meeting. >>> >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >>> >> > f-inte >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >>> >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about how it >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information: >>> >>> Lets see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 >>> >> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your >>> conveniences ): >>> >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and >>> router >>> S2 that locates in area 1: >>> >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA >>> >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it >>> into summary LSA, add the Source Router Information, which is >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >>> >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >>> >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >>> >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered >> accordingly. >>> >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >>> >>> Best Regards. >>> >>> Aijun Wang >>> >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >>> >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, >> China. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > . > From nobody Mon Jul 23 18:41:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49E1130F53 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.908 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.908 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MdNVJcYyvUk5 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24FD7130E9E for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id q11-v6so4656711oic.12 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Tm6ZsnUc7IwdMtmLKn/T2HnyTkrqy6qCakc3Fvb43eQ=; b=utLUqS2gwUMC4fgMzGpDBt0GL5M2UB+vEwlO/CObs1wVVxeNadNr9xPkxWRiOQUn/H OuLjw26c49ScMsV2scJdmTvcP9L8ZjFAlHdZaHqk2384JgNstIGZYqYVpsnDumRtdbN8 qM+yU78/a9vANXReUrvx+JAwzrp2DhJ4fn+Regk2kZn5h1wxP/Sxs/RmJcWkslSP50eA 1YFtYsMRAOmyBZ9LCI4PJ7h2/aqYXS6LR7LBhm5blDsyF8/uhcFuvaguwlUC2oPfiRpL uRxqw1ruLaRn/U/PXT3G5MNH491lQ04B6VkBvKCRIJKlTsYWJnBmeWiUZiCRvIA2s5bq 5bdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Tm6ZsnUc7IwdMtmLKn/T2HnyTkrqy6qCakc3Fvb43eQ=; b=JP+/omOUl+yH3iz7+n8LwvETnw4WFaVD0pT7yXNc9XGdEr99UbK566+NRRcAOfJKn1 mQBICaATUoFA8QbPfi08xAEZPnxYD5dYvdFPAetrQoKe89dRm+1KTvuYEa4kioHp0z0A 1Y+xq5Aw0b8koG/U04rdjxEXk2VAFzmvhWXuusLcHdW6vaz9j3l24Me2rVdsXz3PbsBM OJu23ncMZZKeH+76MuBSe0/hkenQbInMY1Fm+Flehf2rPqpnr3Cu/Z5R9iFEJ4o60F9J 5fRXQ85N6s0aE9KC10BMsP8RP3Zue6kbkRHM2GomMuSqQKBeokgTe3PHyUvbIjLCAzcE yAtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGsqr9w9LSktJv1SeCHjedmUyK598E1ml8GSSmLrwpT8B//Ac/G eoXb+1N2gMDNFxY/IbhVxclPs3R4Npn/eUO4E1HCyA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfHawL41zz8tIog50GTYckds/ktBxidTdE7qfFP4gc3/zJgYv6ZHtK6+bmxyZRPS7+vQTAzu1buuHVxs8Lx2Wk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:bf88:: with SMTP id p130-v6mr1127847oif.344.1532396497890; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 18:41:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> From: Rob Shakir Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 19:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: Peter Psenak Cc: Aijun Wang , chopps@chopps.org, lsr@ietf.org, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e981490571b4dc23" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BGIGV4dGVu?= =?utf-8?q?sion_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:41:44 -0000 --000000000000e981490571b4dc23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years. 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please let=E2=80=99= s not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. r. On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak wrote: > Hi Aijun, > > On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > Hi, Peter: > > > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. > > only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would > include the interface address only. > > > > DR and > > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then > the > > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore = it > > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? > > the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF > defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only > for a specific one. > > > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN > > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no > larger > > than /32 for IPv4 network. > > protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from > multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your > proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Best Regards. > > > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > China. > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com= @dmarc.ietf.org] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 18:20 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.= org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Li= ndem (acee)'; > > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extens= ion for inter-area topology > > retrieval > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Peter: > >> > >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the > >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the > >> possible solutions and feedback you later. > >> > >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other > >> questions then? > > > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they > are > > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. > > > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > >> > >> Best Regards. > >> > >> Aijun Wang > >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation > >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > >> > >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org] > >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 16:15 > >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org > >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee L= indem (acee)'; > >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area = topology > >> retrieval > >> > >> Hi Aijun, > >> > >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on > >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does > >> not work > >> because: > >> > >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be > >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. > >> > >> In summary, what you propose does not work. > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please > >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > >>> > >>> Hi, Peter: > >>> > >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about =E2=80= =9COSPF > >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D > >>> >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 > >>> meeting. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > >>> > >> >> f-inte > >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. > >>> > >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about =E2=80= =9Chow it > >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information= =E2=80=9D: > >>> > >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 > >>> >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your > >>> conveniences ): > >>> > >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and > >>> router > >>> S2 that locates in area 1: > >>> > >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA > >>> > >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it > >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information=E2=80=9D= , which is > >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > >>> > >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running > >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the > >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. > >>> > >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also > >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > >>> > >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which > >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > >> accordingly. > >>> > >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add > >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. > >>> > >>> Best Regards. > >>> > >>> Aijun Wang > >>> > >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department > >>> > >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > >> China. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >> Lsr@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >> Lsr@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000e981490571b4dc23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF.
There are also a multitude of other solutions here already:

1) IGP = adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably two for a r= obust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years.
2) BG= P-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area.
3) streamin= g telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI.

All these solutions exist= in shipping implementations - please let=E2=80=99s not add to the system c= omplexity of the IGP here.

r.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> w= rote:
Hi Aijun,

On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
>
> For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent<= br> > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. <= br>
only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would
include the interface address only.


> DR and
> DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then= the
> process and proposal described in this draft will still work.
> We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore= it
> then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation?

the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF
defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only
for a specific one.

> Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SD= N
> controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no la= rger
> than /32 for IPv4 network.

protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your
proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best Regards.
>
> Aijun Wang
> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 18:20
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: = lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (ac= ee)';
> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF exten= sion for inter-area topology
> retrieval
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
> On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>>
>> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the<= br> >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network.
>> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation th= e
>> possible solutions and feedback you later.
>>
>> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> questions then?
>
> the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they= are
> connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example.
>
> The idea you are proposing simply does not work.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Cor= poration
>> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.
>>
>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6= =97=A5 16:15
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org
>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem= (acee)';
>> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-a= rea topology
>> retrieval
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>>
>> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area base= d on
>> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It doe= s
>> not work
>> because:
>>
>> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be=
>> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix.
>>
>> In summary, what you propose does not work.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list,= please
>>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg)
>>>
>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>
>>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =E2=80=9COSPF
>>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D
>>> <https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topo
>>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the I= ETF102
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material
>>>
>> <https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-lsr-osp
>> f-inte
>> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>.
>>>
>>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =E2=80=9Chow it
>>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension info= rmation=E2=80=9D:
>>>
>>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at secti= on 3
>>> <https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topology-
>>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for yo= ur
>>> conveniences ):
>>>
>>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 a= nd
>>> router
>>> S2 that locates in area 1:
>>>
>>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its rout= er LSA
>>>
>>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will conv= ert it
>>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information= =E2=80=9D, which is
>>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >>>
>>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is ru= nning
>>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then kn= ows the
>>> prefixes of N1 is from S1.
>>>
>>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller wi= ll also
>>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2
>>>
>>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, wh= ich
>>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered=
>> accordingly.
>>>
>>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I = can add
>>> it into the context of this draft in updated version.
>>>
>>> Best Regards.
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>
>>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
>>>
>>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,B= eijing,
>> China.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> .
>

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
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--000000000000e981490571b4dc23-- From nobody Mon Jul 23 20:37:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79935130DFE for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:37:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.01 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=2.899, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WOSMC22frUp1 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25F2130FC4 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id F3AEF143C60; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:37:22 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Rob Shakir'" , "'Peter Psenak'" Cc: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:37:21 +0800 Message-ID: <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01D42342.AFD543B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQi74cdqTtavkdVRwqFqHNwRanWVwAA47nw Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Mww6Fjo6LjovFysBSh5JDkkPAj9PCU5VSlVKTkhJ T0tIT05ITU5LVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUhPSE5KN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a64ca5ce68e7f6bkuukf3aef143c60 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTog562U5aSNOiBSZWdhcmRpbmcg?= =?utf-8?q?OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 03:37:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01D42342.AFD543B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Peter: =20 For point-to-point interface, as described in OSPFv2(RFC2328 12.4.1.1. = Describing point-to-point interfaces) = , the router LSA will = include two links description for each interface, within which the = =E2=80=9Ctype 3 link=E2=80=9D(stub network) will describe the subnet = mask of the point-to-point interface. For broadcast/NBMA interface, the DR will be elected and it will = generate the network LSA which will include also the subnet mask of the = connected interface. For unnumbered and virtual link, if you consider we should include them = also for all possible scenarios even if we seldom use them in large = network, we can consider expand the summary LSA to cover it, as done by = this draft. For Anycast prefixes situation that you described(although we seldom = plan our network in such way), the PCE controller will not deduce the = wrong information from the reported information------Different router = advertise the same prefix, why can=E2=80=99t they be connected in = logically?=20 =20 On summary, the ABR can know and report the originator of the connected = interface=E2=80=99s prefixes, and also the connected information for the = unnumbered/virtual link from the traditional router LSA/network LSA = message, thus can transfer them to the router that run BGP-LS, then to = the PCE controller to retrieval the topology. =20 To Rob:=20 =20 BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology and = has more flexibility to control the topology export as described in RFC = 7752 .=20 =20 Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two = different methods to get the topology. Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the = advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points = with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to = redundancy category as information got from different areaes are = different. Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for = the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to = contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal = solution when compared with BGP-LS. =20 We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that = we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The proposed = extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is = the complexity of IGP protocol itself. =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 = 7:04 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant); Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval =20 +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably = two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for = years.=20 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area.=20 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please = let=E2=80=99s not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. r.=20 On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak = wrote: Hi Aijun, On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Peter: >=20 > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes.=20 only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would include the interface address only. > DR and > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then = the > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore = it > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only for a specific one. > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by = SDN > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no = larger > than /32 for IPv4 network. protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. thanks, Peter >=20 > Best Regards. >=20 > Aijun Wang > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5 18:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; = chopps@chopps.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee = Lindem (acee)'; > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF = extension for inter-area topology > retrieval >=20 > Hi Aijun, >=20 > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> Hi, Peter: >> >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the >> possible solutions and feedback you later. >> >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> questions then? >=20 > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they = are > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. >=20 > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. >=20 > thanks, > Peter >=20 >=20 >> >> Best Regards. >> >> Aijun Wang >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom = Corporation >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. >> >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org] >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5 16:15 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee = Lindem (acee)'; >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area = topology >> retrieval >> >> Hi Aijun, >> >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based = on >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does >> not work >> because: >> >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. >> >> In summary, what you propose does not work. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >> >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, = please >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >>> >>> Hi, Peter: >>> >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =E2=80=9COSPF >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D >>> = >> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 >>> meeting. >>> >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >>> >> = > f-inte >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >>> >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =E2=80=9Chow it >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension = information=E2=80=9D: >>> >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 >>> = >> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your >>> conveniences ): >>> >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and >>> router >>> S2 that locates in area 1: >>> >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA >>> >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router = Information=E2=80=9D, which is >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >>> >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows = the >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >>> >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will = also >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >>> >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered >> accordingly. >>> >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can = add >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >>> >>> Best Regards. >>> >>> Aijun Wang >>> >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >>> >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, >> China. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >=20 > . >=20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01D42342.AFD543B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Peter:

 

For point-to-point interface, as =
described in =C2=A0OSPFv2(RFC2328 =
12.4.1.1.=C2=A0 Describing point-to-point interfaces), the router =
LSA will include two links description for each interface, within which =
the =E2=80=9Ctype 3 link=E2=80=9D(stub network) will describe the subnet =
mask of the point-to-point interface.

For broadcast/NBMA interface, the = DR will be elected and it will generate the network LSA which will = include also the subnet mask of the connected = interface.

For unnumbered and virtual link, = if you consider we should include them also for all possible scenarios = even if we seldom use them in large network, we can consider expand the = summary LSA to cover it, as done by this draft.

For Anycast prefixes situation = that you described(although we seldom plan our network in such way), the = PCE controller will not deduce the wrong information from the reported = information------Different router advertise the same prefix, why = can=E2=80=99t they be connected in logically?

 

On summary, the ABR can know and = report the originator of the connected interface=E2=80=99s prefixes, and = also the connected information for the unnumbered/virtual link from the = traditional router LSA/network LSA message, thus can transfer them to = the router that run BGP-LS, then to the PCE controller to retrieval the = topology.

 

To Rob:

 

BGP-LS is one prominent method to = get the underlay network topology and has more flexibility to control = the topology export as described in RFC 7752. =

 

Solution 1) that you proposed is = possible, but we will not run two different methods to get the = topology.

Solution 2) is also one possible = deployment, but it eliminates the advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it = needs several interaction points with the underlay network. and such = deployment is not belong to redundancy category as information got from = different areaes are different.

Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry = technology should be used mainly for the monitor of network devices, it = requires the PCE controller to contact with every router in the network, = is also not the optimal solution when compared with = BGP-LS.

 

We can update the current draft = to include all possible scenarios that we are not aiming at beginning = for integrity consideration. The proposed extension does not add to = complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is the complexity of IGP = protocol itself.

 

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support = Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] =
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 7:04
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter = Psenak
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Dongjie (Jimmy); = chopps@chopps.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; = Acee Lindem (acee)
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension = for inter-area topology retrieval

 

+1 to Peter. We should not define = fragile solutions within the IETF.

There are also a multitude of = other solutions here already:

1) IGP adjacency with one router in = each area (at a minimum - probably two for a robust system) over a = tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years.
2) BGP-LS to one router = (ditto robustness comment) in each area.
3) streaming telemetry of = the LSDB contents via gNMI.

All these solutions exist in shipping = implementations - please let=E2=80=99s not add to the system complexity = of the IGP here.

r.

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter = Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:

Hi Aijun,

On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang = wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
>
> For routers that connected by = LAN, the router will establish adjacent
> neighbor with DR, but = not only DR advertises the connected prefixes.

only the Network = LSA includes the network mask, other routers would
include the = interface address only.


> DR and
> DRother will all = advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then the
> = process and proposal described in this draft will still work.
> We = seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore = it
> then? Or other persons has some idea on such = situation?

the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really = relevant. IETF
defines solutions that MUST work for all possible = scenarios, not only
for a specific one.

> Anycast prefixes = are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN
> = controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no = larger
> than /32 for IPv4 network.

protocol allows to = advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from
multiple = routers without these routers being directly connected. Your
proposal = is based on the assumptions that are = incorrect.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best = Regards.
>
> Aijun Wang
> Network R&D and = Operation Support Department
> China Telecom Corporation Limited = Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.
>
> = -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
> = =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5 18:20
> = =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; = 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org
> = =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)';
> 'Dongjie = (Jimmy)'
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension = for inter-area topology
> retrieval
>
> Hi = Aijun,
>
> On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang = wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>>
>> Actually, I = consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the
>> = numbered interface, which are normal in our network.
>> For the = two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the
>> = possible solutions and feedback you later.
>>
>> For = the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other
>> = questions then?
>
> the fact that two routers announce the = same subnet, does not mean they are
> connected together by p2p = link. Anycast prefix is an example.
>
> The idea you are = proposing simply does not work.
>
> thanks,
> = Peter
>
>
>>
>> Best = Regards.
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> Network R&D = and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation
>> = Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.
>>
>> = -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
>> = =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5 16:15
>> = =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org
>> = =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)';
>> 'Dongjie = (Jimmy)'
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: = [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology
>> = retrieval
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>>
>> you = are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based = on
>> the fact that two routers are connected to the same = subnet. It does
>> not work
>> = because:
>>
>> 1. connections between routers can be = unnumbered 2. routers can be
>> connected via LAN, in which = case only DR announces the prefix.
>>
>> In summary, = what you propose does not work.
>>
>> = thanks,
>> = Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/07/18 09:49 = , Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent = wrongly to the IDR mail list, please
>>> reply on this = thread within the LSR wg)
>>>
>>> Hi, = Peter:
>>>
>>> I am Aijun Wang from China = Telecom, the author of draft about =E2=80=9COSPF
>>> = extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D
>>> = <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-in= ter-area-topo
>>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by = Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102
>>> = meeting.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments on the = presentation material
>>>
>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slid= es-102-lsr-osp
>> f-inte
>> = r-area-topology-retrieval-00>.
>>>
>>> Below = are my explanation that regarding to the question about =E2=80=9Chow = it
>>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the = extension information=E2=80=9D:
>>>
>>> = Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section = 3
>>> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-a= rea-topology-
>>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I = copy it also below for your
>>> conveniences = ):
>>>
>>> Assuming we want to rebuild the = connection between router S1 and
>>> router
>>> = S2 that locates in area 1:
>>>
>>> 1)Normally, = router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router = LSA
>>>
>>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the = ABR router R1, it will convert it
>>> into summary LSA, add = the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information=E2=80=9D, which = is
>>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this = draft.
>>>
>>> 3)R1 then floods this extension = summary LSA to R0, which is running
>>> BGP-LS protocol with = IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the
>>> = prefixes of N1 is from S1.
>>>
>>> 4)Router S2 = will do the similar process, and the controller will = also
>>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from = S2
>>>
>>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the = connection between S1 and S2, which
>>> prefix is N1. The = topology within Area 1 can then be recovered
>> = accordingly.
>>>
>>> Does the above explanation = can answer your question. if so, I can add
>>> it into the = context of this draft in updated = version.
>>>
>>> Best = Regards.
>>>
>>> Aijun = Wang
>>>
>>> Network R&D and Operation = Support Department
>>>
>>> China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing,
>> = China.
>>>
>>
>> = _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing = list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>&g= t;
>> = _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing = list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>&g= t;
>
> = _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing = list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> =
> .
> =

_______________________________________________
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------=_NextPart_000_0038_01D42342.AFD543B0-- From nobody Tue Jul 24 01:21:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FC2131047 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:21:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LqlTPfAJGh3K for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7D9131045 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 01:21:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11777; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532420495; x=1533630095; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XrDzJNNPwx4u2n5L8U9aeqh9P9tYGtgxgiOv5rDtwXA=; b=BShUIx4H1pc2oY8o8U/2tbm75m6KNgT90VZb2O82hXPPlzNv3FwJFq+m JSAhAFClYsocOC0kwGXSGsQ7YJ5vi50PsW6pIDrZuWtf8dyB5qdk+mvjp HmIeFq0b1NHKcDyZnul+2l2XagHzyeH/wEDhc8hRKG8Dtc7z+kvgDifxI I=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,397,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="147423006" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Jul 2018 08:21:34 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6O8LWGf020091; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:21:32 GMT Message-ID: <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:21:32 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aijun Wang , "'Rob Shakir'" CC: "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" , chopps@chopps.org, "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" , lsr@ietf.org, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTog562U5aSNOiBSZWdhcmRpbmcg?= =?utf-8?q?OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:21:43 -0000 Hi Aijun, On 24/07/18 05:37 , Aijun Wang wrote: > _Hi, Peter:_ > > For point-to-point interface, as described in OSPFv2(RFC2328 12.4.1.1. Describing point-to-point interfaces) , the router LSA will include two links description for each interface, within which the “type 3 link”(stub network) will describe the subnet mask of the point-to-point interface. > > For broadcast/NBMA interface, the DR will be elected and it will > generate the network LSA which will include also the subnet mask of the > connected interface. > > For unnumbered and virtual link, if you consider we should include them > also for all possible scenarios even if we seldom use them in large > network, we can consider expand the summary LSA to cover it, as done by > this draft. there is no way to address unnumbered p2p case your way, because there is no Summary LSA generated to other area in such case. Anyway, reconstructing a topology of a remote area based on the prefix announcements that come from it is a broken concept. I have given you several examples where your proposal does not work. thanks, Peter > > For Anycast prefixes situation that you described(although we seldom > plan our network in such way), the PCE controller will not deduce the > wrong information from the reported information------Different router > advertise the same prefix, why can’t they be connected in logically? > > On summary, the ABR can know and report the originator of the connected > interface’s prefixes, and also the connected information for the > unnumbered/virtual link from the traditional router LSA/network LSA > message, thus can transfer them to the router that run BGP-LS, then to > the PCE controller to retrieval the topology. > > _To Rob: _ > > BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology and > has more flexibility to control the topology export as described in RFC > 7752 . > > Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two > different methods to get the topology. > > Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the > advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points > with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to > redundancy category as information got from different areaes are different. > > Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for > the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to > contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal > solution when compared with BGP-LS. > > We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that > we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The proposed > extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is > the complexity of IGP protocol itself. > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > *发件人:*Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] > *发送时间:*2018年7月24日7:04 > *收件人:*Peter Psenak > *抄送:*Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); > Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) > *主题:*Re: [Lsr] 答复: 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area > topology retrieval > > +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. > > There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: > > 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably > two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for > years. > 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. > 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. > > All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please let’s not > add to the system complexity of the IGP here. > > r. > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak > > > wrote: > > Hi Aijun, > > On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > Hi, Peter: > > > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. > > only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would > include the interface address only. > > > > DR and > > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then the > > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore it > > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? > > the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF > defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only > for a specific one. > > > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN > > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no larger > > than /32 for IPv4 network. > > protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from > multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your > proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Best Regards. > > > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > > > -----邮件原件----- > >发件人: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >发送时间: 2018年7月23日18:20 > >收件人: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org > > >抄送: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >主题: Re: [Lsr] 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology > > retrieval > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Peter: > >> > >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the > >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the > >> possible solutions and feedback you later. > >> > >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other > >> questions then? > > > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they are > > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. > > > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > >> > >> Best Regards. > >> > >> Aijun Wang > >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation > >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > >> > >> -----邮件原件----- > >>发件人: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >>发送时间: 2018年7月23日16:15 > >>收件人: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org > >>抄送: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >>主题: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology > >> retrieval > >> > >> Hi Aijun, > >> > >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on > >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does > >> not work > >> because: > >> > >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be > >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. > >> > >> In summary, what you propose does not work. > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please > >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > >>> > >>> Hi, Peter: > >>> > >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about “OSPF > >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval” > >>> >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 > >>> meeting. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > >>> > >> >> f-inte > >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. > >>> > >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about “how it > >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information”: > >>> > >>> Let’s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 > >>> >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your > >>> conveniences ): > >>> > >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and > >>> router > >>> S2 that locates in area 1: > >>> > >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA > >>> > >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it > >>> into summary LSA, add the “Source Router Information”, which is > >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > >>> > >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running > >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the > >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. > >>> > >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also > >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > >>> > >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which > >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > >> accordingly. > >>> > >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add > >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. > >>> > >>> Best Regards. > >>> > >>> Aijun Wang > >>> > >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department > >>> > >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > >> China. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > >Lsr@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From 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-0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Aijun Wang , "'Rob Shakir'" CC: "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" , "chopps@chopps.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbTHNyXSAg562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BG?= =?utf-8?Q?_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= Thread-Index: AQHUIv+sZJhqtOnJTkGb07IHtlQAkqSeXHoA///jVNA= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:44:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.119.209] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.24, xch-rcd-014.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTog562U5aSNOiBSZWdhcmRpbmcg?= =?utf-8?q?OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:44:57 -0000 SGkgQWlqdW4sDQoNCllvdXIgZHJhZnQgaW50cm9kdWNlcyB0aGUgU291cmNlIFJvdXRlciBJRCB3 aGljaCBpcywgYnkgaXRzZWxmLCBhbiB1c2VmdWwgcHJvdG9jb2wgZXh0ZW5zaW9uLiBIb3dldmVy LCB0aGUgdXNlLWNhc2Ugb24gaW50ZXItYXMgdG9wb2xvZ3kgcmV0cmlldmFsIGhhcyBpc3N1ZXMg d2hpY2ggaGFzIGJlZW4gc2hhcmVkIGJ5IG1hbnkgb2YgdXMgYXQgdGhlIG1pa2UsIG9mZmxpbmUg YW5kIG9uIHRoZSBsaXN0Lg0KDQpDb3VsZCB5b3UgY29uc2lkZXIgZGUtY291cGxpbmcgdGhlIHR3 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(ketant)" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , Aijun Wang , "'Rob Shakir'" CC: "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" , "chopps@chopps.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbTHNyXSAg562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgT1NQ?= =?utf-8?Q?F_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= Thread-Index: AQHUI1vP6519typ+MUSplAYUSoSHTA== Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:37:13 +0000 Message-ID: <44287233-F703-4B4A-A70A-622AE7C1811D@cisco.com> References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: 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Depth) using IS-IS" Thread-Index: AQHUI12lI255rbsZokGVl0alH/Mkkg== Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:50:21 +0000 Message-ID: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9C8E9159A0194AF188623278885E5B2Bciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.153, xch-rtp-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Early Allocation Request for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:50:26 -0000 --_000_9C8E9159A0194AF188623278885E5B2Bciscocom_ 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bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:44:55 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-011.cisco.com (173.36.7.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:44:55 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:44:55 -0500 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 Thread-Index: AQHT8qrG9J6mz5ZwvU69LFjauFcew6Rh3oSAgAUpHQCALLy+sIAAkbaA//+7taCAAIDFAIAABv4AgApLkIA= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:44:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y3gatmql.fsf@chopps.org> <45c18832cc9143f9b6fff0c1da4b742c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <6623B634-A565-454C-AD4E-E2DE28C89B93@cisco.com> <4dbe9a99763d4d39a320fcf498303eda@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <14116bedbaae4aa78a36add828f9429d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <7e2032fa396b4f89b57c64fd4cbc4d7a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <553aae77d96c4ae497f535928b58ed76@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <553aae77d96c4ae497f535928b58ed76@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.240] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.21, xch-aln-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:45:01 -0000 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<003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> <44287233-F703-4B4A-A70A-622AE7C1811D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <44287233-F703-4B4A-A70A-622AE7C1811D@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [161.44.212.240] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.24, xch-aln-014.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTogUmVnYXJkaW5n?= =?utf-8?q?_OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 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Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9K7kPrCGKIh3 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E103912777C for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 09:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id n84-v6so8537609oib.9 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 09:21:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CayMv0Fj8aad0bImljXXB4wteo1JwXwoOswVjI1d8Eo=; 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AOUpUlFZfDadr0g+mwsJaKRW2RyTzq00Kzvdo9Alc3ZUZNkSdNszcG3y 5ydKtnqekr9RjDQNeLS0ocKcrLwQXrFcRMmCdWy6ng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdRhme2denEE0C3+/EHW0NLOmHKjUq4HDWuUfKTCB1oNAsSk4QY5qfOUMPPlS3kkHjxMirQSDl+EuUhNT8z2S0= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e2d3:: with SMTP id z202-v6mr4124059oig.121.1532449316833; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:3312:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> From: Rob Shakir Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 12:21:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aijun Wang Cc: Peter Psenak , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , chopps@chopps.org, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , lsr@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002a9c7a0571c1294e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBP?= =?utf-8?q?SPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:22:00 -0000 --0000000000002a9c7a0571c1294e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 23 July 2018 at 23:37, Aijun Wang wrote: > > > *To Rob: * > > > > BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology and > has more flexibility to control the topology export as described in RFC > 7752 . > > > > Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two > different methods to get the topology. > What is the other method that you're running alongside an IGP adjacency? This is a single method that just uses the IGP protocol that you have today. > Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the > advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points with > the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to redundancy > category as information got from different areaes are different. > Yes, the information is different but this is why you have areas within the IGP. Are you implying that your controller cannot merge topologies from different areas? I'd suggest that this is something that is relatively trivial to add into that code, rather than changing the code running on your routers. > Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for the > monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to contact with > every router in the network, is also not the optimal solution when compared > with BGP-LS. > This is not true. LSDB export via streaming telemetry (for the entire LSDB) is possible in today's running code with IS-IS, and models are written for OSPF's LSDB. The controller just needs to interact with one device per area per the existing discussion. Assertion that this is not the optimal solution seems more like opinion to me. Some justification would be useful for us to understand why the existing solutions that are shipping aren't suitable. Why should we further complicate protocols that ship for everyone if there is no technical reason to do so? > We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that > we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The proposed > extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is the > complexity of IGP protocol itself. > You're asking for information that is explicitly partitioned (based on the fact that your network is partitioned into areas) to be exported into an area simply to reduce the number of adjacencies between a controller and the network to N (where N is the redundancy of the controller) rather than N*areas -- why is this the right trade-off? r. --0000000000002a9c7a0571c1294e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 23 July 2018 at 23:37, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.c= n> wrote:

= =C2=A0

To Rob:

=C2=A0<= u>

BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay= network topology and has more flexibility to control the topology export a= s described in RFC 7752.

=C2= =A0

Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but= we will not run two different methods to get the topology.


What is the other method that you&#= 39;re running alongside an IGP adjacency? This is a single method that just= uses the IGP protocol that you have today.
=C2=A0

Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates= the advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points = with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to redundancy = category as information got from different areaes are different.

=

Yes, the information is differ= ent but this is why you have areas within the IGP. Are you implying that yo= ur controller cannot merge topologies from different areas? I'd suggest= that this is something that is relatively trivial to add into that code, r= ather than changing the code running on your routers.
=C2=A0

=

Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should b= e used mainly for the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE contr= oller to contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal = solution when compared with BGP-LS.


This is not true. LSDB export via streaming telemetry (for = the entire LSDB) is possible in today's running code with IS-IS, and mo= dels are written for OSPF's LSDB. The controller just needs to interact= with one device per area per the existing discussion.=C2=A0

=
Assertion that this is not the optimal solution seems more like = opinion to me. Some justification would be useful for us to understand why = the existing solutions that are shipping aren't suitable. Why should we= further complicate protocols that ship for everyone if there is no technic= al reason to do so?
=C2=A0

=C2= =A0We can update the curr= ent draft to include all possible scenarios that we are not aiming at begin= ning for integrity consideration. The proposed extension does not add to co= mplexity of IGP. What we discussed here is the complexity of IGP protocol i= tself.


=
=C2=A0You're asking for infor= mation that is explicitly partitioned (based on the fact that your network = is partitioned into areas) to be exported into an area simply to reduce the= number of adjacencies between a controller and the network to N (where N i= s the redundancy of the controller) rather than N*areas -- why is this the = right trade-off?

=
r.
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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:25:14 +0000 (UTC) RT-Owner: amanda.baber From: "Amanda Baber via RT" Reply-To: iana-questions@iana.org In-Reply-To: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> References: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> Message-ID: X-RT-Loop-Prevention: IANA X-RT-Ticket: IANA #1117133 X-Managed-BY: RT 4.2.9 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) X-RT-Originator: amanda.baber@icann.org To: acee@cisco.com, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:25:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] [IANA #1117133] Early Allocation Request for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:25:18 -0000 Hi Acee, We actually aren't able to create registries through the RFC 7120 early allocation process. We'll have to hold off until the IESG notifies us that they've approved the document for publication. Best regards, Amanda On Tue Jul 24 14:50:47 2018, acee@cisco.com wrote: > Hi Amanda, et al, > > Can we get the registry for “IGP MSD Types” created as well? We now > have another draft allocating a code point. The IS-IS TLVs have > already been allocated through the early allocation process. > > Hi Authors, > > Please change “MSD Types” to “IGP MSD Types” in the IANA section > consistent with other registries in the “Interior Gateway Protocol > (IGP) Parameters” registry grouping. > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp- > parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types > > Thanks, > Acee From nobody Tue Jul 24 13:54:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10488130DF0; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="147717750" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Jul 2018 20:54:30 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w6OKsTt0028118 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:54:30 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:54:29 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:54:29 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "iana-questions@iana.org" , "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" , "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [IANA #1117133] Early Allocation Request for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS" Thread-Index: AQHUI12lI255rbsZokGVl0alH/MkkqSfFS0A///FHQA= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:54:29 +0000 Message-ID: <6B7BF6FD-5615-492C-A403-32FF078F55BF@cisco.com> References: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 24 Jul 2018 13:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZTh80AjXZKvD; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 13:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.icann.org (smtp01.icann.org [192.0.46.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 415D91311AA; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 13:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from request3.lax.icann.org (request1.lax.icann.org [10.32.11.221]) by smtp01.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC3CE0698; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by request3.lax.icann.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id 22B07C205E2; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:54:53 +0000 (UTC) RT-Owner: amanda.baber From: "Acee Lindem via RT" Reply-To: iana-questions@iana.org In-Reply-To: <6B7BF6FD-5615-492C-A403-32FF078F55BF@cisco.com> References: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> <6B7BF6FD-5615-492C-A403-32FF078F55BF@cisco.com> Message-ID: X-RT-Loop-Prevention: IANA X-RT-Ticket: IANA #1117133 X-Managed-BY: RT 4.2.9 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) X-RT-Originator: acee@cisco.com To: aretana.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:54:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [IANA #1117133] Early Allocation Request for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:55:04 -0000 Hi Amanda, It seems to me that we created the RFC 7684 TLV registry via early allocation so that we could allocate code points from other drafts. If this is, in fact, the case, we'll need to manage the IGP MSD Type in the WG. Thanks, Acee On 7/24/18, 4:25 PM, "Amanda Baber via RT" wrote: Hi Acee, We actually aren't able to create registries through the RFC 7120 early allocation process. We'll have to hold off until the IESG notifies us that they've approved the document for publication. Best regards, Amanda On Tue Jul 24 14:50:47 2018, acee@cisco.com wrote: > Hi Amanda, et al, > > Can we get the registry for “IGP MSD Types” created as well? We now > have another draft allocating a code point. The IS-IS TLVs have > already been allocated through the early allocation process. > > Hi Authors, > > Please change “MSD Types” to “IGP MSD Types” in the IANA section > consistent with other registries in the “Interior Gateway Protocol > (IGP) Parameters” registry grouping. > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp- > parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types > > Thanks, > Acee From nobody Tue Jul 24 14:28:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D1F1311C9; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XME7beS7rHHc; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp01.icann.org (smtp01.icann.org [192.0.46.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B31DE131149; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 14:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from request3.lax.icann.org (request1.lax.icann.org [10.32.11.221]) by smtp01.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB854E06AC; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:28:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by request3.lax.icann.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id B28EBC205D1; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:28:24 +0000 (UTC) RT-Owner: amanda.baber From: "Amanda Baber via RT" Reply-To: iana-questions@iana.org In-Reply-To: References: <9C8E9159-A019-4AF1-8862-3278885E5B2B@cisco.com> <6B7BF6FD-5615-492C-A403-32FF078F55BF@cisco.com> Message-ID: X-RT-Loop-Prevention: IANA X-RT-Ticket: IANA #1117133 X-Managed-BY: RT 4.2.9 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) X-RT-Originator: amanda.baber@icann.org To: acee@cisco.com, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:28:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] [IANA #1117133] Early Allocation Request for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:28:29 -0000 Hi Acee, According to our logs, although we made individual registrations through the early allocation process, it looks like all of the RFC 7684 registries at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv2-parameters were created in September 2015, after the document was approved by the IESG. Amanda On Tue Jul 24 20:54:52 2018, acee@cisco.com wrote: > Hi Amanda, > > It seems to me that we created the RFC 7684 TLV registry via early > allocation so that we could allocate code points from other drafts. > > If this is, in fact, the case, we'll need to manage the IGP MSD Type > in the WG. > > Thanks, > Acee > > On 7/24/18, 4:25 PM, "Amanda Baber via RT" > wrote: > > Hi Acee, > > We actually aren't able to create registries through the RFC 7120 > early allocation process. We'll have to hold off until the IESG > notifies us that they've approved the document for publication. > > Best regards, > Amanda > > On Tue Jul 24 14:50:47 2018, acee@cisco.com wrote: > > Hi Amanda, et al, > > > > Can we get the registry for “IGP MSD Types” created as well? We now > > have another draft allocating a code point. The IS-IS TLVs have > > already been allocated through the early allocation process. > > > > Hi Authors, > > > > Please change “MSD Types” to “IGP MSD Types” in the IANA section > > consistent with other registries in the “Interior Gateway Protocol > > (IGP) Parameters” registry grouping. > > > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp- > > parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > > From nobody Tue Jul 24 15:50:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99E813121B; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.82.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153247264682.22467.8760186360081409332@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:50:46 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 22:50:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-07-24 Abstract: This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack can be supported in a given network. This document only defines one type of MSD maximum label imposition, but defines an encoding that can support other MSD types. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 24 15:53:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5BB131218 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uGLHAjY6fxMr for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x241.google.com (mail-pl0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C6D131217 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x241.google.com with SMTP id s17-v6so2390532plp.7 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hErm0XaZEYn0RYMu37NHnKZhrqrWWQDuJjUUxqFBN2w=; b=NIzRe/dqZWsB+YOJBSv38QiFT0VBvH0Udcamy92rqt+xmfbpXScDLbEqKsqg2NjpHV YRn1cnaUPtJS/kYkZM46e0OADH4cgDziehg3300ThOOtMpK2d9r4wCCDQ5OjnrK1RDV1 ZNj4iMVhZcVUA9gCh9FH9jgFmvZmuZW0PmhzPsY+S8zmR6KpWoXuFmI2StHXG7uJqi8Q AgeBizZMLBKSfzrswvgYCeRNDDBbV5ihT5nzIxq5rCQ8SpcbhBiZ2CaEC/yCJIJUQRue QgRi1guvAOFdXUBsFd1HDXJt50cR0VqZEbbFVBj6KgorVmfC4UrETyGn9Dpv4DczgLsC d22Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id :thread-topic:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hErm0XaZEYn0RYMu37NHnKZhrqrWWQDuJjUUxqFBN2w=; b=OxInjsB83IM6fpWyv6cZtwtXKnydaSXxKQnwgSm03Qel98yndVeV4uwJO0Yr11xuHO d3bQf35OUnF2cfs65Z5CRE6KeNH4a6OCgR0A3dWSEXnTFuIRxlWfCpGNtBC0Hlx5Js0I 6xkWN5mcITIN1eigVTjAlSZdOd3xeMFmMaBUNJIVrRGqiFjjmWFkRs2uy5uF6k1Xm+9S WEKAbeL/Cy/N4IYQmppruCQLjrLG4odCXF64v2OUV+oLpflORH45pVtvJQKg453wiI/y J+VxNLX7KXmQiqCpqBEiaW214lOMVlZPvA2AgNWYXmgUSty0WrpTJgHBPyPCwz5WWToC r5LQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlER4Ng/mam3J+H1JmusSkwBkofxdboWxYdY9v4R1gbD/JhD8O35 Dop1yNe75KZ7QnJchGoKpwdMSjI8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcP0UivK8bI83DA4AG1I/gqG+ebUL6VYI5tvzL5gIY1oHnBAo38G3aaBatd/CGTcWcM0VUQqA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:740a:: with SMTP id g10-v6mr18758185pll.204.1532472818861; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.12] ([2601:647:5801:7388:7dc6:578c:6a89:d711]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s66-v6sm17749464pfe.53.2018.07.24.15.53.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:38 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.f.0.180709 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 15:53:37 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13.txt References: <153247264682.22467.8760186360081409332@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153247264682.22467.8760186360081409332@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 22:53:42 -0000 Folks, The only update is the correct name for the registry - from "MSD Types" to = "IGP MSD Types" Cheers, Jeff =EF=BB=BFOn 7/24/18, 15:51, "lsr-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ie= tf.org" wrote: =20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. =20 Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-07-24 =20 Abstract: This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multipl= e types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack can be supported in a given network. This document only defines one type o= f MSD maximum label imposition, but defines an encoding that can support other MSD types. =20 =20 The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ =20 There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m= sd-13 =20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-1= 3 =20 =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. =20 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ =20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =20 From nobody Tue Jul 24 16:09:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D4E131221; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:09:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.82.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153247375802.22648.17908404380800307783@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:09:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-15.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:09:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Peter Psenak Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-15.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2018-07-24 Abstract: This document defines a way for an OSPF Router to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack can be supported in a given network. This document defines only one type of MSD, but defines an encoding that can support other MSD types. Here the term OSPF means both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 24 16:53:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02075130E67 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:53:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DNNNY9MXu2Fw for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (m88102.mail.qiye.163.com [106.2.88.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFEEC130E26 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 16:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 81FC7415AF; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 07:53:39 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Peter Psenak \(ppsenak\)'" , "'Rob Shakir'" Cc: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , , References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> <44287233-F703-4B4A-A70A-622AE7C1811D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 07:53:37 +0800 Message-ID: <003701d423a9$8ac4de70$a04e9b50$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHUI1vQB2aOPXBr0kadIEZqLLPUHKSehQgQgACEW6A= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6MBg6MCo5CDohAyoRVgswTzA*Ti0wCQNVSlVKTkhJ T0xNT0hLS0JOVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUpCTkJJN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a64ceb66ed19865kuuu81fc7415af Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICAg562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBS?= =?utf-8?q?egarding_OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:53:57 -0000 Hi, Ketan and Acee: I am working on the other use cases of "Source Router ID" extension, = which may corresponding to that in RFC7794. Once finished, I will update = the draft. RFC5392 and RFC5316 are for inter-AS TE extension, not inter-area = scenario and solution that proposed in this draft. -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = [mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 = 23:56 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem (acee); Peter Psenak (ppsenak); = Aijun Wang; 'Rob Shakir' =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'; chopps@chopps.org; lsr@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval Ack and IMHO the reference to this inter-AS use-case should be removed = as it is very specific and works in very limited cases as opposed to = rfc5392 which presented a proper OSPF solution for this specific problem = (rfc5316 does same for IS-IS). Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Acee Lindem (acee)=20 Sent: 24 July 2018 10:37 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = ; Aijun Wang ; 'Rob = Shakir' Cc: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' ; chopps@chopps.org; = lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval Hi Ketan,=20 =EF=BB=BFOn 7/24/18, 7:44 AM, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" = wrote: Hi Aijun, =20 Your draft introduces the Source Router ID which is, by itself, an = useful protocol extension. I agree. What is the use case for advertisement in IS-IS? Perhaps this = could be used as the primary motivation.=20 However, the use-case on inter-as topology retrieval has issues which = has been shared by many of us at the mike, offline and on the list. And this could be moved to an appendix or even completely.=20 Thanks, Acee=20 =20 Could you consider de-coupling the two? =20 Also, if the proposal for learning inter-AS as described by you = works for your own specific network design (and you don't think any of = the points made affect that decision), then please go ahead. However, I = do not see the point of trying to get that as an IETF document? =20 Thanks, Ketan =20 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Psenak (ppsenak)=20 Sent: 24 July 2018 04:22 To: Aijun Wang ; 'Rob Shakir' = Cc: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' ; chopps@chopps.org; = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem = (acee) Subject: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval =20 Hi Aijun, =20 On 24/07/18 05:37 , Aijun Wang wrote: > _Hi, Peter:_ > > For point-to-point interface, as described in OSPFv2(RFC2328 = 12.4.1.1. Describing point-to-point interfaces) = , the router LSA will = include two links description for each interface, within which the = =E2=80=9Ctype 3 link=E2=80=9D(stub network) will describe the subnet = mask of the point-to-point interface. > > For broadcast/NBMA interface, the DR will be elected and it will=20 > generate the network LSA which will include also the subnet mask = of=20 > the connected interface. > > For unnumbered and virtual link, if you consider we should include = > them also for all possible scenarios even if we seldom use them in = > large network, we can consider expand the summary LSA to cover it, = as=20 > done by this draft. =20 there is no way to address unnumbered p2p case your way, because = there is no Summary LSA generated to other area in such case. =20 Anyway, reconstructing a topology of a remote area based on the = prefix announcements that come from it is a broken concept. I have given = you several examples where your proposal does not work. =20 thanks, Peter =20 > > For Anycast prefixes situation that you described(although we = seldom=20 > plan our network in such way), the PCE controller will not deduce = the=20 > wrong information from the reported information------Different = router=20 > advertise the same prefix, why can=E2=80=99t they be connected in = logically? > > On summary, the ABR can know and report the originator of the=20 > connected interface=E2=80=99s prefixes, and also the connected = information for=20 > the unnumbered/virtual link from the traditional router = LSA/network=20 > LSA message, thus can transfer them to the router that run BGP-LS, = > then to the PCE controller to retrieval the topology. > > _To Rob: _ > > BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network = topology=20 > and has more flexibility to control the topology export as = described=20 > in RFC > 7752 . > > Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two = > different methods to get the topology. > > Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the = > advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction = points=20 > with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to=20 > redundancy category as information got from different areaes are = different. > > Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly = for=20 > the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to=20 > contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal=20 > solution when compared with BGP-LS. > > We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios = that=20 > we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The=20 > proposed extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we=20 > discussed here is the complexity of IGP protocol itself. > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, China. > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] > = *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 7:04 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Peter Psenak > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant);=20 > Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area=20 > topology retrieval > > +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the = IETF. > > There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: > > 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - = probably=20 > two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks = for=20 > years. > 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. > 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. > > All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please = let=E2=80=99s=20 > not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. > > r. > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak=20 > > > wrote: > > Hi Aijun, > > On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > Hi, Peter: > > > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish = adjacent > > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected = prefixes. > > only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers = would > include the interface address only. > > > > DR and > > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each = other, then the > > process and proposal described in this draft will still = work. > > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can = we ignore it > > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? > > the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really = relevant. IETF > defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, = not only > for a specific one. > > > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily = filtered by SDN > > controller because the link prefixes between two routers = will be no larger > > than /32 for IPv4 network. > > protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary = mask from > multiple routers without these routers being directly = connected. Your > proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Best Regards. > > > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, China. > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A518:20 > >=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; = chopps@chopps.org > > >=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org ; = 'Ketan Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding = OSPF extension for inter-area topology > > retrieval > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Peter: > >> > >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection = and the > >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will = investigation the > >> possible solutions and feedback you later. > >> > >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have = other > >> questions then? > > > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not = mean they are > > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an = example. > > > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > >> > >> Best Regards. > >> > >> Aijun Wang > >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom = Corporation > >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > >> > >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A516:15 > >>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org = > >>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org ; = 'Ketan Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for = inter-area topology > >> retrieval > >> > >> Hi Aijun, > >> > >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote = area based on > >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. = It does > >> not work > >> because: > >> > >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers = can be > >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the = prefix. > >> > >> In summary, what you propose does not work. > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail = list, please > >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > >>> > >>> Hi, Peter: > >>> > >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft = about =E2=80=9COSPF > >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D > >>> = >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the = IETF102 > >>> meeting. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > >>> > >> = >> f-inte > >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. > >>> > >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question = about =E2=80=9Chow it > >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension = information=E2=80=9D: > >>> > >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at = section 3 > >>> = >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for = your > >>> conveniences ): > >>> > >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router = S1 and > >>> router > >>> S2 that locates in area 1: > >>> > >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its = router LSA > >>> > >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will = convert it > >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router = Information=E2=80=9D, which is > >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this = draft. > >>> > >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which = is running > >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller = then knows the > >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. > >>> > >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the = controller will also > >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > >>> > >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and = S2, which > >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be = recovered > >> accordingly. > >>> > >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if = so, I can add > >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. > >>> > >>> Best Regards. > >>> > >>> Aijun Wang > >>> > >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department > >>> > >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, > >> China. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > >Lsr@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > =20 =20 From nobody Tue Jul 24 19:58:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B83B130FA8; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:58:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.82.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153248753044.22467.13690671813522913594@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 19:58:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-04.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 02:58:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS Authors : Xiaohu Xu Sriganesh Kini Siva Sivabalan Clarence Filsfils Stephane Litkowski Filename : draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-04.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-07-24 Abstract: Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to load balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL). An ingress Label Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a given tunnel unless an egress LSR has indicated via signaling that it has the capability of processing ELs, referred to as Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel. In addition, it would be useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability of reading the maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-balancing, referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD), in the cases where stacked LSPs are used for whatever reasons. This document defines mechanisms to signal these two capabilities using IS-IS. These mechanisms are useful when the label advertisement is also done via IS-IS. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 24 20:40:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4102130FAE for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:40:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.008 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.008 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=2.899, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BbCY2ib_pxCn for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7F4130F62 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 67B17143ACA; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:39:52 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Peter Psenak'" , "'Rob Shakir'" Cc: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:39:50 +0800 Message-ID: <005b01d423c9$24c1db30$6e459190$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQjJ2oFgQI29I52QkuKr2x/6mN/BgAnwpRw Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6NAg6MCo4NToaFyoPCy1OQys9UTgaChxVSlVKTkhJ T0JLS0tJQktNVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUpNQ0pPN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a64cf8589ca7f6bkuuk67b17143aca Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTogICDnrZTlpI06IOetlOWkjTog?= =?utf-8?q?Regarding_OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 03:40:11 -0000 Hi, Peter: Actually, only the unnumbered scenario that you insisted has no = straightforward solution for the topology reconstruction. As I had = explained previously, unnumbered interface deployment is very seldom = within our network, because it is unavailable for remote testing and = management. If we still need to cover it, one viable way is to let "summary LSA" = also announced it, with "Link State ID" is identical to the neighboring = router, and the proposed "source router ID" is the original router = itself. PCE/SDN controller can then recognize and reconstruct the = topology correctly under such scenario. >From the view of other point, let the "summary LSA" carry the "source = router ID" can aid us reconstruct the underlay multi-area topology in = most of common scenario, will do no harm to the traditional IGP flooding = and SPF calculation. I am also investigating other use case of this = extension as suggested by Acee and Ketan. Very thanks for your comments to this draft again, and wish you can work = together with us for the suitable solution. Best Regards. Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak = [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 = 16:22 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Rob Shakir' =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; = chopps@chopps.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; lsr@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval Hi Aijun, On 24/07/18 05:37 , Aijun Wang wrote: > _Hi, Peter:_ > > For point-to-point interface, as described in OSPFv2(RFC2328 = 12.4.1.1. Describing point-to-point interfaces) = , the router LSA will = include two links description for each interface, within which the = =E2=80=9Ctype 3 link=E2=80=9D(stub network) will describe the subnet = mask of the point-to-point interface. > > For broadcast/NBMA interface, the DR will be elected and it will=20 > generate the network LSA which will include also the subnet mask of=20 > the connected interface. > > For unnumbered and virtual link, if you consider we should include=20 > them also for all possible scenarios even if we seldom use them in=20 > large network, we can consider expand the summary LSA to cover it, as=20 > done by this draft. there is no way to address unnumbered p2p case your way, because there = is no Summary LSA generated to other area in such case. Anyway, reconstructing a topology of a remote area based on the prefix = announcements that come from it is a broken concept. I have given you = several examples where your proposal does not work. thanks, Peter > > For Anycast prefixes situation that you described(although we seldom=20 > plan our network in such way), the PCE controller will not deduce the=20 > wrong information from the reported information------Different router=20 > advertise the same prefix, why can=E2=80=99t they be connected in = logically? > > On summary, the ABR can know and report the originator of the=20 > connected interface=E2=80=99s prefixes, and also the connected = information for=20 > the unnumbered/virtual link from the traditional router LSA/network=20 > LSA message, thus can transfer them to the router that run BGP-LS,=20 > then to the PCE controller to retrieval the topology. > > _To Rob: _ > > BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology=20 > and has more flexibility to control the topology export as described=20 > in RFC > 7752 . > > Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two=20 > different methods to get the topology. > > Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the=20 > advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points=20 > with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to=20 > redundancy category as information got from different areaes are = different. > > Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for=20 > the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to=20 > contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal=20 > solution when compared with BGP-LS. > > We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that = > we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The=20 > proposed extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we=20 > discussed here is the complexity of IGP protocol itself. > > Best Regards. > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] > = *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5= 7:04 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Peter Psenak > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant);=20 > Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area=20 > topology retrieval > > +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. > > There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: > > 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably = > two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for=20 > years. > 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. > 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. > > All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please = let=E2=80=99s=20 > not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. > > r. > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak=20 > > > wrote: > > Hi Aijun, > > On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > Hi, Peter: > > > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish = adjacent > > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected = prefixes. > > only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers = would > include the interface address only. > > > > DR and > > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each = other, then the > > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we = ignore it > > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? > > the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. = IETF > defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not = only > for a specific one. > > > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered = by SDN > > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be = no larger > > than /32 for IPv4 network. > > protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary = mask from > multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. = Your > proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > Best Regards. > > > > Aijun Wang > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, China. > > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A518:20 > >=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; = chopps@chopps.org > > >=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan = Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF = extension for inter-area topology > > retrieval > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Peter: > >> > >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and = the > >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation = the > >> possible solutions and feedback you later. > >> > >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have = other > >> questions then? > > > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not = mean they are > > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. > > > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > >> > >> Best Regards. > >> > >> Aijun Wang > >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom = Corporation > >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > >> > >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > ] > >>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A516:15 > >>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org = > >>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan = Talaulikar > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > >>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for = inter-area topology > >> retrieval > >> > >> Hi Aijun, > >> > >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area = based on > >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It = does > >> not work > >> because: > >> > >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can = be > >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. > >> > >> In summary, what you propose does not work. > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >> > >> > >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, = please > >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > >>> > >>> Hi, Peter: > >>> > >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =E2=80=9COSPF > >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D > >>> = >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the = IETF102 > >>> meeting. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > >>> > >> = >> f-inte > >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. > >>> > >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =E2=80=9Chow it > >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension = information=E2=80=9D: > >>> > >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at = section 3 > >>> = >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your > >>> conveniences ): > >>> > >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 = and > >>> router > >>> S2 that locates in area 1: > >>> > >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its = router LSA > >>> > >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will = convert it > >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router = Information=E2=80=9D, which is > >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > >>> > >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is = running > >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then = knows the > >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. > >>> > >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller = will also > >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > >>> > >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, = which > >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > >> accordingly. > >>> > >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I = can add > >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. > >>> > >>> Best Regards. > >>> > >>> Aijun Wang > >>> > >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department > >>> > >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research = Institute,Beijing, > >> China. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Lsr mailing list > >>Lsr@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > >Lsr@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > . > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Tue Jul 24 20:50:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C747130FBD for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WSEoTEoUtc7 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (m88102.mail.qiye.163.com [106.2.88.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD2B130FA2 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 20:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m88102.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 13EAD413B5; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:50:18 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Rob Shakir'" Cc: "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , , "'Peter Psenak'" , "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:50:16 +0800 Message-ID: <005c01d423ca$99c382c0$cd4a8840$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01D4240D.A7E6C2C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdQjaoZ2jsa5+t0pSeCl+uWH2J3IzgAXrN5g Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1ktWUFJV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWQgYFAkeWUFLVUtXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6PCo6Mhw*IToeSCotSBE6DUI*IQxPCjhVSlVKTkhJ T0JLTUlJQk9IVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZDB4ZWUEdGhcIHldZ CAFZQUpCT05MN1dZEgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWQY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a64cf8f163c9865kuuu13ead413b5 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTog562U5aSNOiBS?= =?utf-8?q?egarding_OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 03:50:31 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D4240D.A7E6C2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Rob: =20 If we use BGP-LS to get the underlay topology, we will not consider = deployment other methods such as IGP adjacency or LSDB telemetry, = although all of them are applicable. If we deploy BGP-LS adjacency with routers in multi-area to get the full = multi-area topology, it will be no different with the traditional IGP = adjacency, increase the complexity that BGP-LS solution itself can = reduce. =20 On the other hand, if we do not solve such scenario, isn=E2=80=99t = BGP-LS one complete solution for underlay IGP topology gathering? =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5 = 0:22 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Peter Psenak; = Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology = retrieval =20 =20 =20 On 23 July 2018 at 23:37, Aijun Wang wrote: =20 To Rob:=20 =20 BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology and = has more flexibility to control the topology export as described in RFC = 7752 .=20 =20 Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two = different methods to get the topology. =20 What is the other method that you're running alongside an IGP adjacency? = This is a single method that just uses the IGP protocol that you have = today. =20 Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the = advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points = with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to = redundancy category as information got from different areaes are = different. =20 Yes, the information is different but this is why you have areas within = the IGP. Are you implying that your controller cannot merge topologies = from different areas? I'd suggest that this is something that is = relatively trivial to add into that code, rather than changing the code = running on your routers. =20 Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for = the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to = contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal = solution when compared with BGP-LS. =20 This is not true. LSDB export via streaming telemetry (for the entire = LSDB) is possible in today's running code with IS-IS, and models are = written for OSPF's LSDB. The controller just needs to interact with one = device per area per the existing discussion.=20 =20 Assertion that this is not the optimal solution seems more like opinion = to me. Some justification would be useful for us to understand why the = existing solutions that are shipping aren't suitable. Why should we = further complicate protocols that ship for everyone if there is no = technical reason to do so? =20 We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that = we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The proposed = extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is = the complexity of IGP protocol itself. =20 You're asking for information that is explicitly partitioned (based on = the fact that your network is partitioned into areas) to be exported = into an area simply to reduce the number of adjacencies between a = controller and the network to N (where N is the redundancy of the = controller) rather than N*areas -- why is this the right trade-off? =20 r. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D4240D.A7E6C2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Rob:

 

If we use BGP-LS to get the underlay topology, we will not consider = deployment other methods such as IGP adjacency or LSDB telemetry, = although all of them are applicable.

If we deploy BGP-LS adjacency with routers in multi-area to get the = full multi-area topology, it will be no different with the traditional = IGP adjacency, increase the complexity that BGP-LS solution itself can = reduce.

 

On the other hand, if we do not solve such scenario, isn=E2=80=99t = BGP-LS one complete solution for underlay IGP topology = gathering?

 

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support = Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] =
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5 0:22
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun = Wang
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Peter Psenak; Ketan = Talaulikar (ketant); lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem = (acee)
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extension = for inter-area topology retrieval

 

 

 

On 23 July 2018 at 23:37, Aijun = Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> = wrote:

 

To Rob:

 

BGP-LS is one = prominent method to get the underlay network topology and has more = flexibility to control the topology export as described in RFC 7752.

 

Solution 1) that you = proposed is possible, but we will not run two different methods to get = the topology.

 

What is the other method that = you're running alongside an IGP adjacency? This is a single method that = just uses the IGP protocol that you have = today.

 

Solution 2) is also = one possible deployment, but it eliminates the advantage of the BGP-LS, = in which it needs several interaction points with the underlay network. = and such deployment is not belong to redundancy category as information = got from different areaes are different.

 

Yes, the information is different = but this is why you have areas within the IGP. Are you implying that = your controller cannot merge topologies from different areas? I'd = suggest that this is something that is relatively trivial to add into = that code, rather than changing the code running on your = routers.

 

Solution = 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for the monitor = of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to contact with every = router in the network, is also not the optimal solution when compared = with BGP-LS.

 

This is not true. LSDB export via = streaming telemetry (for the entire LSDB) is possible in today's running = code with IS-IS, and models are written for OSPF's LSDB. The controller = just needs to interact with one device per area per the existing = discussion. 

 

Assertion that this is not the = optimal solution seems more like opinion to me. Some justification would = be useful for us to understand why the existing solutions that are = shipping aren't suitable. Why should we further complicate protocols = that ship for everyone if there is no technical reason to do = so?

 

 We can update = the current draft to include all possible scenarios that we are not = aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The proposed extension = does not add to complexity of IGP. What we discussed here is the = complexity of IGP protocol itself.

 

 You're = asking for information that is explicitly partitioned (based on the fact = that your network is partitioned into areas) to be exported into an area = simply to reduce the number of adjacencies between a controller and the = network to N (where N is the redundancy of the controller) rather than = N*areas -- why is this the right trade-off?

 

r.

<= /html> ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01D4240D.A7E6C2C0-- From nobody Tue Jul 24 21:11:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0481130F79; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wCctfX6e0-MR; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA3C0130FA2; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 36CD079D0C59C; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 05:10:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.399.0; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 05:10:55 +0100 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.107]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.200]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 21:10:51 -0700 From: Yingzhen Qu To: "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHUHoshlhUniy0UPEe3ODqwDjvqnqSf0xWA Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 04:10:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3070DEEB-D659-4C12-93E9-F65009F6B73F@huawei.com> References: <153191356776.2859.14205758456640564525@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <153191356776.2859.14205758456640564525@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTHNyIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIExzckBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHNyDQog ICAgDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jul 24 23:09:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4EF130E3A for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:09:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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-0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tony Przygienda Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:08:28 +0200 Message-ID: To: Rob Shakir Cc: ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , Christian Hopps , ketant@cisco.com, wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn, lsr@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000417b780571ccb717" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BGIGV4dGVu?= =?utf-8?q?sion_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 06:09:10 -0000 --000000000000417b780571ccb717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable pretty obvious +1 here --- tony On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 3:41 AM Rob Shakir wrote: > +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. > > There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: > > 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably tw= o > for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years. > 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. > 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. > > All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please let=E2=80= =99s not > add to the system complexity of the IGP here. > > r. > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Aijun, >> >> On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> > Hi, Peter: >> > >> > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent >> > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. >> >> only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would >> include the interface address only. >> >> >> > DR and >> > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then >> the >> > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. >> > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore >> it >> > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? >> >> the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF >> defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only >> for a specific one. >> >> > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SD= N >> > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no >> larger >> > than /32 for IPv4 network. >> >> protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from >> multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your >> proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> > >> > Best Regards. >> > >> > Aijun Wang >> > Network R&D and Operation Support Department >> > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, >> China. >> > >> > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org] >> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 18:20 >> > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps= .org >> > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee L= indem (acee)'; >> > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF exten= sion for inter-area topology >> > retrieval >> > >> > Hi Aijun, >> > >> > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> >> Hi, Peter: >> >> >> >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the >> >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. >> >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the >> >> possible solutions and feedback you later. >> >> >> >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> >> questions then? >> > >> > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they >> are >> > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. >> > >> > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. >> > >> > thanks, >> > Peter >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Best Regards. >> >> >> >> Aijun Wang >> >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporatio= n >> >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. >> >> >> >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.c= om@dmarc.ietf.org] >> >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 16:15 >> >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org >> >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee = Lindem (acee)'; >> >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >> >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area= topology >> >> retrieval >> >> >> >> Hi Aijun, >> >> >> >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based o= n >> >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does >> >> not work >> >> because: >> >> >> >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be >> >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. >> >> >> >> In summary, what you propose does not work. >> >> >> >> thanks, >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >> >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, pleas= e >> >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >> >>> >> >>> Hi, Peter: >> >>> >> >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about =E2=80= =9COSPF >> >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D >> >>> > >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 >> >>> meeting. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >> >>> >> >> > >> f-inte >> >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >> >>> >> >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about =E2=80= =9Chow it >> >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension >> information=E2=80=9D: >> >>> >> >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 >> >>> > >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your >> >>> conveniences ): >> >>> >> >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and >> >>> router >> >>> S2 that locates in area 1: >> >>> >> >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA >> >>> >> >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it >> >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information=E2=80= =9D, which is >> >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >> >>> >> >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running >> >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows th= e >> >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >> >>> >> >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will als= o >> >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >> >>> >> >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which >> >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered >> >> accordingly. >> >>> >> >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can ad= d >> >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >> >>> >> >>> Best Regards. >> >>> >> >>> Aijun Wang >> >>> >> >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >> >>> >> >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing= , >> >> China. >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Lsr mailing list >> >> Lsr@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Lsr mailing list >> >> Lsr@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Lsr mailing list >> > Lsr@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > >> > . >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000417b780571ccb717 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
pretty obvious +1 here

--- tony

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at = 3:41 AM Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
+1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IE= TF.

There are also a multitude of other solutions here already:
<= br>1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably t= wo for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years.=
2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area.
3= ) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI.

All these solut= ions exist in shipping implementations - please let=E2=80=99s not add to th= e system complexity of the IGP here.

r.
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak <ppsenak= =3D40cisco.= com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
H= i Aijun,

On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
>
> For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent<= br> > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. <= br>
only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would
include the interface address only.


> DR and
> DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then= the
> process and proposal described in this draft will still work.
> We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore= it
> then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation?

the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF
defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only
for a specific one.

> Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SD= N
> controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no la= rger
> than /32 for IPv4 network.

protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your
proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best Regards.
>
> Aijun Wang
> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 18:20
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: = lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (ac= ee)';
> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF exten= sion for inter-area topology
> retrieval
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
> On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>>
>> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the<= br> >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network.
>> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation th= e
>> possible solutions and feedback you later.
>>
>> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> questions then?
>
> the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they= are
> connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example.
>
> The idea you are proposing simply does not work.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Cor= poration
>> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.
>>
>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6= =97=A5 16:15
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org
>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem= (acee)';
>> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-a= rea topology
>> retrieval
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>>
>> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area base= d on
>> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It doe= s
>> not work
>> because:
>>
>> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be=
>> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix.
>>
>> In summary, what you propose does not work.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list,= please
>>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg)
>>>
>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>
>>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about = =E2=80=9COSPF
>>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D
>>> <https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topo
>>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the I= ETF102
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material
>>>
>> <https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-lsr-osp
>> f-inte
>> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>.
>>>
>>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about = =E2=80=9Chow it
>>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension info= rmation=E2=80=9D:
>>>
>>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at secti= on 3
>>> <https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topology-
>>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for yo= ur
>>> conveniences ):
>>>
>>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 a= nd
>>> router
>>> S2 that locates in area 1:
>>>
>>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its rout= er LSA
>>>
>>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will conv= ert it
>>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information= =E2=80=9D, which is
>>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >>>
>>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is ru= nning
>>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then kn= ows the
>>> prefixes of N1 is from S1.
>>>
>>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller wi= ll also
>>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2
>>>
>>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, wh= ich
>>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered=
>> accordingly.
>>>
>>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I = can add
>>> it into the context of this draft in updated version.
>>>
>>> Best Regards.
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>
>>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
>>>
>>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,B= eijing,
>> China.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org=
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> .
>

_______________________________________________
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--000000000000417b780571ccb717-- From nobody Tue Jul 24 23:32:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD89130E3E for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:32:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R_aT1z_tXs1Y for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 155B1130E43 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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([2601:647:5801:7388:9dc9:4ed:fcb6:5b58]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f5-v6sm21611399pgn.34.2018.07.25.00.32.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-683CD80F-B2C8-4BB5-992E-D9CDC8BAEE3A Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:32:25 -0700 Cc: Rob Shakir , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , Christian Hopps , ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, ketant@cisco.com, wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn, lsr@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5A408E19-71A6-4BB8-A626-425038B0EE4A@gmail.com> References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> To: Tony Przygienda Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBPU1BGIGV4dGVu?= =?utf-8?q?sion_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 07:32:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail-683CD80F-B2C8-4BB5-992E-D9CDC8BAEE3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not going to repeat all the comments made before, +1 Regards, Jeff > On Jul 24, 2018, at 23:08, Tony Przygienda wrote: >=20 > pretty obvious +1 here=20 >=20 > --- tony=20 >=20 >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 3:41 AM Rob Shakir wrote: >> +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. >>=20 >> There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: >>=20 >> 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably tw= o for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years.=20= >> 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area.=20 >> 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. >>=20 >> All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please let=E2=80=99= s not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. >>=20 >> r.=20 >>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak wrote: >>> Hi Aijun, >>>=20 >>> On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: >>> > Hi, Peter: >>> >=20 >>> > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent >>> > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes.=20= >>>=20 >>> only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would >>> include the interface address only. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> > DR and >>> > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then= the >>> > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. >>> > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore= it >>> > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? >>>=20 >>> the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF >>> defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only >>> for a specific one. >>>=20 >>> > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SD= N >>> > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no la= rger >>> > than /32 for IPv4 network. >>>=20 >>> protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from= >>> multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your >>> proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. >>>=20 >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>>=20 >>> >=20 >>> > Best Regards. >>> >=20 >>> > Aijun Wang >>> > Network R&D and Operation Support Department >>> > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, C= hina. >>> >=20 >>> > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>> > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.co= m@dmarc.ietf.org] >>> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5= 18:20 >>> > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps= .org >>> > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee L= indem (acee)'; >>> > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >>> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF exten= sion for inter-area topology >>> > retrieval >>> >=20 >>> > Hi Aijun, >>> >=20 >>> > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: >>> >> Hi, Peter: >>> >> >>> >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the >>> >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. >>> >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the >>> >> possible solutions and feedback you later. >>> >> >>> >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >>> >> questions then? >>> >=20 >>> > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they= are >>> > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. >>> >=20 >>> > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. >>> >=20 >>> > thanks, >>> > Peter >>> >=20 >>> >=20 >>> >> >>> >> Best Regards. >>> >> >>> >> Aijun Wang >>> >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporatio= n >>> >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. >>> >> >>> >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>> >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.c= om@dmarc.ietf.org] >>> >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 16:15 >>> >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org >>> >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee L= indem (acee)'; >>> >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' >>> >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area= topology >>> >> retrieval >>> >> >>> >> Hi Aijun, >>> >> >>> >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based o= n >>> >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does >>> >> not work >>> >> because: >>> >> >>> >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be >>> >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. >>> >> >>> >> In summary, what you propose does not work. >>> >> >>> >> thanks, >>> >> Peter >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: >>> >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, pleas= e >>> >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi, Peter: >>> >>> >>> >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about =E2=80= =9COSPF >>> >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D >>> >>> >> >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 >>> >>> meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> f-inte >>> >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. >>> >>> >>> >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about =E2=80= =9Chow it >>> >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension informatio= n=E2=80=9D: >>> >>> >>> >>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 >>> >>> >> >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your >>> >>> conveniences ): >>> >>> >>> >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and >>> >>> router >>> >>> S2 that locates in area 1: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA= >>> >>> >>> >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it= >>> >>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information=E2=80=9D= , which is >>> >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. >>> >>> >>> >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running >>> >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows th= e >>> >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. >>> >>> >>> >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will als= o >>> >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 >>> >>> >>> >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which >>> >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered >>> >> accordingly. >>> >>> >>> >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can ad= d >>> >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best Regards. >>> >>> >>> >>> Aijun Wang >>> >>> >>> >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department >>> >>> >>> >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing= , >>> >> China. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Lsr mailing list >>> >> Lsr@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Lsr mailing list >>> >> Lsr@ietf.org >>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >> >>> >=20 >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Lsr mailing list >>> > Lsr@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >=20 >>> > . >>> >=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --Apple-Mail-683CD80F-B2C8-4BB5-992E-D9CDC8BAEE3A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not going to repeat all the comments made b= efore, +1

Regards,
Jeff

On Jul 24, 2018, at 23:08, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:

pretty obvious +1 here

=
--- tony

On T= ue, Jul 24, 2018 at 3:41 AM Rob Shakir <rjs= @rob.sh> wrote:
+1 to Peter. W= e should not define fragile solutions within the IETF.

There are also= a multitude of other solutions here already:

1) IGP adjacency with o= ne router in each area (at a minimum - probably two for a robust system) ove= r a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for years.
2) BGP-LS to one router= (ditto robustness comment) in each area.
3) streaming telemetry of the L= SDB contents via gNMI.

All these solutions exist in shipping implemen= tations - please let=E2=80=99s not add to the system complexity of the IGP h= ere.

r.
On Mon, Jul 2= 3, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Aijun,

On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
>
> For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes.
only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would
include the interface address only.


> DR and
> DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then t= he
> process and proposal described in this draft will still work.
> We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore i= t
> then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation?

the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF
defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only
for a specific one.

> Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN=
> controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no lar= ger
> than /32 for IPv4 network.

protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from
= multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your
proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best Regards.
>
> Aijun Wang
> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, C= hina.
>
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97=A5= 18:20
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: l= sr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)';
> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Regarding OSPF extens= ion for inter-area topology
> retrieval
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
> On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>>
>> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network.
>> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the=
>> possible solutions and feedback you later.
>>
>> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other >> questions then?
>
> the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they a= re
> connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example.
>
> The idea you are proposing simply does not work.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corp= oration
>> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.
>>
>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org]
>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8823=E6=97= =A5 16:15
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org
>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; 'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)';
>> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'
>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-ar= ea topology
>> retrieval
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>>
>> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based= on
>> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does=
>> not work
>> because:
>>
>> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be<= br> >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix.
>>
>> In summary, what you propose does not work.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, p= lease
>>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg)
>>>
>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>
>>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about =E2= =80=9COSPF
>>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval=E2=80=9D
>>> <https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topo
>>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IE= TF102
>>> meeting.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material
>>>
>> <https://datatracker.= ietf.org/meeting/102/materials/slides-102-lsr-osp
>> f-inte
>> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>.
>>>
>>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about =E2= =80=9Chow it
>>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension infor= mation=E2=80=9D:
>>>
>>> Let=E2=80=99s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at sectio= n 3
>>> <https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-inter-area-topology-
>>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for you= r
>>> conveniences ):
>>>
>>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 an= d
>>> router
>>> S2 that locates in area 1:
>>>
>>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its route= r LSA
>>>
>>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will conve= rt it
>>> into summary LSA, add the =E2=80=9CSource Router Information=E2= =80=9D, which is
>>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft.
= >>>
>>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is run= ning
>>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then kno= ws the
>>> prefixes of N1 is from S1.
>>>
>>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller wil= l also
>>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2
>>>
>>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, whi= ch
>>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered<= br> >> accordingly.
>>>
>>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I c= an add
>>> it into the context of this draft in updated version.
>>>
>>> Best Regards.
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>
>>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
>>>
>>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Be= ijing,
>> China.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org<= br> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org<= br> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> .
>

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
____________________= ___________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/lsr
= --Apple-Mail-683CD80F-B2C8-4BB5-992E-D9CDC8BAEE3A-- From nobody Wed Jul 25 00:49:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F384130F80 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:49:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1BbLC08bZrWb for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F106130F1E for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 00:49:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16796; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532504972; x=1533714572; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=c/LkMDXIQ+r2j6lOKWgk0lueZgnd0v0w5I8KzALgjjE=; b=Zsq1e6lfQNRZwSueRO11acGxJfZ6l0UCftI1kMjeL06ZWTsaHf82aTqM DmgHWxLfmmSUIO4CSMpcZAyvz/NHiRGW3rXX5TT1iSXBM8bWsvsdpAvZO RqHDO9byYALBrBYG4EjqNgrqv8AMIlxFbTJ/SzkG4s3Uy/Iykpnq/gpvS 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,400,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="428554557" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 25 Jul 2018 07:49:28 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6P7nPBF003330; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 07:49:26 GMT Message-ID: <5B582B85.4000000@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 09:49:25 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Aijun Wang , "'Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)'" , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , "'Rob Shakir'" CC: "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" , chopps@chopps.org, lsr@ietf.org References: <001601d42259$a860fff0$f922ffd0$@org.cn> <5B558E76.3010703@cisco.com> <003201d42265$cd011af0$670350d0$@org.cn> <5B55ABB5.60806@cisco.com> <003f01d42275$5ec00eb0$1c402c10$@org.cn> <5B55BC38.3050605@cisco.com> <003701d422ff$a1b203b0$e5160b10$@org.cn> <5B56E18C.4060903@cisco.com> <44287233-F703-4B4A-A70A-622AE7C1811D@cisco.com> <003701d423a9$8ac4de70$a04e9b50$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <003701d423a9$8ac4de70$a04e9b50$@org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICAg562U5aSNOiAg562U5aSNOiBS?= =?utf-8?q?egarding_OSPF_extension_for_inter-area_topology_retrieval?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 07:49:36 -0000 Hi Aijun, On 25/07/18 01:53 , Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Ketan and Acee: > > I am working on the other use cases of "Source Router ID" extension, which may corresponding to that in RFC7794. you want to use Extended Prefix LSA for advertising the "Source router ID", not the Summary LSA. thanks, Peter > Once finished, I will update the draft. > RFC5392 and RFC5316 are for inter-AS TE extension, not inter-area scenario and solution that proposed in this draft. > > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] > 发送时间: 2018年7月24日 23:56 > 收件人: Acee Lindem (acee); Peter Psenak (ppsenak); Aijun Wang; 'Rob Shakir' > 抄送: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)'; chopps@chopps.org; lsr@ietf.org > 主题: RE: 答复: [Lsr] 答复: 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval > > Ack and IMHO the reference to this inter-AS use-case should be removed as it is very specific and works in very limited cases as opposed to rfc5392 which presented a proper OSPF solution for this specific problem (rfc5316 does same for IS-IS). > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: 24 July 2018 10:37 > To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) ; Aijun Wang ; 'Rob Shakir' > Cc: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' ; chopps@chopps.org; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: 答复: [Lsr] 答复: 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval > > Hi Ketan, > > On 7/24/18, 7:44 AM, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" wrote: > > Hi Aijun, > > Your draft introduces the Source Router ID which is, by itself, an useful protocol extension. > > I agree. What is the use case for advertisement in IS-IS? Perhaps this could be used as the primary motivation. > > > However, the use-case on inter-as topology retrieval has issues which has been shared by many of us at the mike, offline and on the list. > > And this could be moved to an appendix or even completely. > > Thanks, > Acee > > Could you consider de-coupling the two? > > Also, if the proposal for learning inter-AS as described by you works for your own specific network design (and you don't think any of the points made affect that decision), then please go ahead. However, I do not see the point of trying to get that as an IETF document? > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > Sent: 24 July 2018 04:22 > To: Aijun Wang ; 'Rob Shakir' > Cc: 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' ; chopps@chopps.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) > Subject: Re: 答复: [Lsr] 答复: 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology retrieval > > Hi Aijun, > > On 24/07/18 05:37 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > _Hi, Peter:_ > > > > For point-to-point interface, as described in OSPFv2(RFC2328 12.4.1.1. Describing point-to-point interfaces) , the router LSA will include two links description for each interface, within which the “type 3 link”(stub network) will describe the subnet mask of the point-to-point interface. > > > > For broadcast/NBMA interface, the DR will be elected and it will > > generate the network LSA which will include also the subnet mask of > > the connected interface. > > > > For unnumbered and virtual link, if you consider we should include > > them also for all possible scenarios even if we seldom use them in > > large network, we can consider expand the summary LSA to cover it, as > > done by this draft. > > there is no way to address unnumbered p2p case your way, because there is no Summary LSA generated to other area in such case. > > Anyway, reconstructing a topology of a remote area based on the prefix announcements that come from it is a broken concept. I have given you several examples where your proposal does not work. > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > For Anycast prefixes situation that you described(although we seldom > > plan our network in such way), the PCE controller will not deduce the > > wrong information from the reported information------Different router > > advertise the same prefix, why can’t they be connected in logically? > > > > On summary, the ABR can know and report the originator of the > > connected interface’s prefixes, and also the connected information for > > the unnumbered/virtual link from the traditional router LSA/network > > LSA message, thus can transfer them to the router that run BGP-LS, > > then to the PCE controller to retrieval the topology. > > > > _To Rob: _ > > > > BGP-LS is one prominent method to get the underlay network topology > > and has more flexibility to control the topology export as described > > in RFC > > 7752 . > > > > Solution 1) that you proposed is possible, but we will not run two > > different methods to get the topology. > > > > Solution 2) is also one possible deployment, but it eliminates the > > advantage of the BGP-LS, in which it needs several interaction points > > with the underlay network. and such deployment is not belong to > > redundancy category as information got from different areaes are different. > > > > Solution 3)--Streaming telemetry technology should be used mainly for > > the monitor of network devices, it requires the PCE controller to > > contact with every router in the network, is also not the optimal > > solution when compared with BGP-LS. > > > > We can update the current draft to include all possible scenarios that > > we are not aiming at beginning for integrity consideration. The > > proposed extension does not add to complexity of IGP. What we > > discussed here is the complexity of IGP protocol itself. > > > > Best Regards. > > > > Aijun Wang > > > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > > > *发件人:*Rob Shakir [mailto:rjs@rob.sh] > > *发送时间:*2018年7月24日7:04 > > *收件人:*Peter Psenak > > *抄送:*Dongjie (Jimmy); chopps@chopps.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); > > Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) > > *主题:*Re: [Lsr] 答复: 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area > > topology retrieval > > > > +1 to Peter. We should not define fragile solutions within the IETF. > > > > There are also a multitude of other solutions here already: > > > > 1) IGP adjacency with one router in each area (at a minimum - probably > > two for a robust system) over a tunnel. Deployed in many networks for > > years. > > 2) BGP-LS to one router (ditto robustness comment) in each area. > > 3) streaming telemetry of the LSDB contents via gNMI. > > > > All these solutions exist in shipping implementations - please let’s > > not add to the system complexity of the IGP here. > > > > r. > > > > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:30 Peter Psenak > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > On 23/07/18 13:07 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > > Hi, Peter: > > > > > > For routers that connected by LAN, the router will establish adjacent > > > neighbor with DR, but not only DR advertises the connected prefixes. > > > > only the Network LSA includes the network mask, other routers would > > include the interface address only. > > > > > > > DR and > > > DRother will all advertise type 1 and type 2 LSA with each other, then the > > > process and proposal described in this draft will still work. > > > We seldom use the ip unnumbered features in our network, can we ignore it > > > then? Or other persons has some idea on such situation? > > > > the fact that you do not use unnumbered is not really relevant. IETF > > defines solutions that MUST work for all possible scenarios, not only > > for a specific one. > > > > > Anycast prefixes are often /32 long, this can be easily filtered by SDN > > > controller because the link prefixes between two routers will be no larger > > > than /32 for IPv4 network. > > > > protocol allows to advertise the same prefix with an arbitrary mask from > > multiple routers without these routers being directly connected. Your > > proposal is based on the assumptions that are incorrect. > > > > thanks, > > Peter > > > > > > > > Best Regards. > > > > > > Aijun Wang > > > Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > > China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > > > > > -----邮件原件----- > > >发件人: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > > =40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > > ] > > >发送时间: 2018年7月23日18:20 > > >收件人: Aijun Wang; 'Peter Psenak'; chopps@chopps.org > > > > >抄送: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan Talaulikar > > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > > > 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > > >主题: Re: [Lsr] 答复: Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology > > > retrieval > > > > > > Hi Aijun, > > > > > > On 23/07/18 11:16 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > >> Hi, Peter: > > >> > > >> Actually, I consider mainly the point-to-point connection and the > > >> numbered interface, which are normal in our network. > > >> For the two situations that you mentioned, I will investigation the > > >> possible solutions and feedback you later. > > >> > > >> For the point-to-point and numbered interface, do you have other > > >> questions then? > > > > > > the fact that two routers announce the same subnet, does not mean they are > > > connected together by p2p link. Anycast prefix is an example. > > > > > > The idea you are proposing simply does not work. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Peter > > > > > > > > >> > > >> Best Regards. > > >> > > >> Aijun Wang > > >> Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation > > >> Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China. > > >> > > >> -----邮件原件----- > > >>发件人: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak > > =40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > > ] > > >>发送时间: 2018年7月23日16:15 > > >>收件人: Aijun Wang; chopps@chopps.org > > >>抄送: lsr@ietf.org ; 'Ketan Talaulikar > > (ketant)'; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'; > > >> 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > > >>主题: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF extension for inter-area topology > > >> retrieval > > >> > > >> Hi Aijun, > > >> > > >> you are trying to reconstruct the topology of the remote area based on > > >> the fact that two routers are connected to the same subnet. It does > > >> not work > > >> because: > > >> > > >> 1. connections between routers can be unnumbered 2. routers can be > > >> connected via LAN, in which case only DR announces the prefix. > > >> > > >> In summary, what you propose does not work. > > >> > > >> thanks, > > >> Peter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 23/07/18 09:49 , Aijun Wang wrote: > > >>> (Sorry for my previous mail sent wrongly to the IDR mail list, please > > >>> reply on this thread within the LSR wg) > > >>> > > >>> Hi, Peter: > > >>> > > >>> I am Aijun Wang from China Telecom, the author of draft about “OSPF > > >>> extension for inter-area topology retrieval” > > >>> > >>> l ogy-ext/>, which is presented by Mr.Jie Dong during the IETF102 > > >>> meeting. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for your comments on the presentation material > > >>> > > >> > >> f-inte > > >> r-area-topology-retrieval-00>. > > >>> > > >>> Below are my explanation that regarding to the question about “how it > > >>> retrievals the inter-area topology based on the extension information”: > > >>> > > >>> Let’s see the graph that illustrates in Fig.1 at section 3 > > >>> > >>> e xt-00#section-3> of the draft(I copy it also below for your > > >>> conveniences ): > > >>> > > >>> Assuming we want to rebuild the connection between router S1 and > > >>> router > > >>> S2 that locates in area 1: > > >>> > > >>> 1)Normally, router S1 will advertise prefix N1 within its router LSA > > >>> > > >>> 2)When this router LSA reaches the ABR router R1, it will convert it > > >>> into summary LSA, add the “Source Router Information”, which is > > >>> router id of S1 in this example, as proposed in this draft. > > >>> > > >>> 3)R1 then floods this extension summary LSA to R0, which is running > > >>> BGP-LS protocol with IP SDN Controller. The controller then knows the > > >>> prefixes of N1 is from S1. > > >>> > > >>> 4)Router S2 will do the similar process, and the controller will also > > >>> knows the prefixes N1 is also from S2 > > >>> > > >>> 5)Then it can reconstruct the connection between S1 and S2, which > > >>> prefix is N1. The topology within Area 1 can then be recovered > > >> accordingly. > > >>> > > >>> Does the above explanation can answer your question. if so, I can add > > >>> it into the context of this draft in updated version. > > >>> > > >>> Best Regards. > > >>> > > >>> Aijun Wang > > >>> > > >>> Network R&D and Operation Support Department > > >>> > > >>> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, > > >> China. > > >>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Lsr mailing list > > >>Lsr@ietf.org > > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Lsr mailing list > > >>Lsr@ietf.org > > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > >Lsr@ietf.org > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > . > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > . > From nobody Wed Jul 25 01:16:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED3B130E4A; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 01:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sokojIMEHegH; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 01:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21C6B130F83; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 01:16:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3623; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1532506586; x=1533716186; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Rx/yHW046ynY3wOsNjq7FRtCs9Hq5YAkCYGh48/i2Ew=; b=lFNO3akDQSnWyV+M7pjUnpGwAIu9TjyGQn/zWpXIZ1ZpE4ixYuRCOXAO iGIB0kA/Nm+RU6HJgrVVQINixHOLY1Upt+cn4u4TiSz3Y2tRBQXkj9IO3 Oi3TxtShPq2xQhY/uo3rsHULVCnzqp0B9ary2sxr9p5c98rjQ4g8wUIIp 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D6AQCRMVhb/4QNJK1bGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYNNY38og36UQ4IMjSiKGgsYDYRHAoJaITcVAQIBAQIBAQJ?= =?us-ascii?q?tHAyFNwEBAQMBASEVNgoBEAsYAgIFFgsCAgkDAgECARUwBgEMAQUCAQGDHYF?= =?us-ascii?q?/D69XgSAOhF6FdoELh3cXgUE/gRGDEoMbAQECAQEWhEeCVQKHbIUwjFYJhhW?= =?us-ascii?q?JH4FGRINSgkqFVYpEh2OBVyKBUjMaCBsVGiGCaQmLDIVAPTCOCgEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,400,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="147380744" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 25 Jul 2018 08:16:10 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.53] (ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com [10.60.140.53]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6P8G89f002000; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:16:09 GMT Message-ID: <5B5831C8.9090701@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:16:08 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yingzhen Qu , "draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <153191356776.2859.14205758456640564525@ietfa.amsl.com> <3070DEEB-D659-4C12-93E9-F65009F6B73F@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <3070DEEB-D659-4C12-93E9-F65009F6B73F@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.53, ams-ppsenak-nitro4.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:16:30 -0000 Hi Yingzhen, sure, I fix it with other comments that may come. thanks, Peter On 25/07/18 06:10 , Yingzhen Qu wrote: > Hi authors, > > I just run idnits against version 05, and there is still a warning: > > Miscellaneous warnings: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > == The document seems to lack the recommended RFC 2119 boilerplate, even if > it appears to use RFC 2119 keywords -- however, there's a paragraph with > a matching beginning. Boilerplate error? > > RFC 8174, paragraph 11: > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", > and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as > described in BCP 14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they > appear in all capitals, as shown here. > > ... text found in draft: > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", > and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as > described in BCP14 [RFC2119] [RFC8174] when, and only when, they > ........................^ > appear in all capitals, as shown here. > > > This is really minor. I suppose you can fix it later with other comments if there is any. > > Thanks, > Yingzhen > > > On 7/18/18, 4:33 AM, "Lsr on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. > > Title : OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement > Authors : Peter Psenak > Ketan Jivan Talaulikar > Wim Henderickx > Padma Pillay-Esnault > Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 2018-07-18 > > Abstract: > Every OSPF interface is assigned an identifier, Interface ID, which > uniquely identifies the interface on the router. In some cases it is > useful to know the Interface ID assigned by the adjacent router on > its side of the adjacency (Remote Interface ID). > > This draft describes the extensions to OSPF link-local signalling to > advertise the Local Interface Identifier. > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-05 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > From nobody Wed Jul 25 08:26:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23EB512D7F8 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bI2xs7-HYlXu 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Statement for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01 Thread-Index: AQHUJCvMKyCb4JcaZk6PewS6oUW0eQ== Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:26:03 +0000 Message-ID: <10586733-71A9-4176-9715-D4F3535DD9F7@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1058673371A941769715D4F3535DD9F7ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.155, xch-rtp-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IPR Statement for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:26:08 -0000 --_000_1058673371A941769715D4F3535DD9F7ciscocom_ 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153264368314.24806.10784421442296221484@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 15:21:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-13.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 22:21:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Yang Data Model for OSPF Protocol Authors : Derek Yeung Yingzhen Qu Jeffrey Zhang Ing-Wher Chen Acee Lindem Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-13.txt Pages : 113 Date : 2018-07-26 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage OSPF. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 31 07:07:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745AD12872C; Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:07:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <153304602040.5962.1405809920091386791@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:07:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-05.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 14:07:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS Authors : Xiaohu Xu Sriganesh Kini Siva Sivabalan Clarence Filsfils Stephane Litkowski Filename : draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-05.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-07-29 Abstract: Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to load balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL). An ingress Label Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a given tunnel unless an egress LSR has indicated via signaling that it has the capability of processing ELs, referred to as Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel. In addition, it would be useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability of reading the maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-balancing, referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD), in the cases where stacked LSPs are used for whatever reasons. This document defines mechanisms to signal these two capabilities using IS-IS. These mechanisms are useful when the label advertisement is also done via IS-IS. In addition, this document introduces the Non-IGP Functional Capabilities Sub-TLV for advertising IS-IS router's actual non-IGP functional capabilities. ELC is one of such non-IGP functional capabilities. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/