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White" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" Cc: , "'Alvaro Retana'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 22:32:49 -0400 Message-ID: <02a401d47254$595132e0$0bf398a0$@riw.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGBRR7jQEXwX4VNe4CpnDtMjgxDeaXiHkRg Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] OpenFabric X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 02:32:53 -0000 > Aren=E2=80=99t you a WG chair =F0=9F=98=89? If you=E2=80=99re going to = continue work on this draft, > please rename the file so it shows up in the LSR drafts. If = you=E2=80=99re just going to > let it expire and descend into obscurity, no action is necessary. I'll get to it in the next couple of days. I have a list of stuff that = needs to be changed... Thanks for pulling this back to the front of the = list. =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Fri Nov 2 19:11:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA56130E16; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GgkK5DI9LHXa; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 210BB130E13; 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charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20181104032459.3DF97B8139A@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 20:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC7810 (5486) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 03:25:12 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC7810, "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5486 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Teresa Date Reported: 2018-08-31 Held by: Alvaro Retana (IESG) Section: 4.6 Original Text ------------- Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. Corrected Text -------------- Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. Notes ----- Two sentences to explain 'available bandwidth' on a bundled link, but one says "sum of component available bandwidth minus xxx", the other says "sum of component available bandwidth", is conflicting. need to change the first sentence to 'sum of component residual bandwidth minus xxx' -------------------------------------- RFC7810 (draft-ietf-isis-te-metric-extensions-11) -------------------------------------- Title : IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions Publication Date : May 2016 Author(s) : S. Previdi, Ed., S. Giacalone, D. Ward, J. Drake, Q. 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lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83B3120072; Sun, 4 Nov 2018 06:22:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154134136264.31922.160465757103098840@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 06:22:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 14:22:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Routing with Reverse Metric Authors : Naiming Shen Shane Amante Mikael Abrahamsson Filename : draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-11-04 Abstract: This document describes a mechanism to allow IS-IS routing to quickly and accurately shift traffic away from either a point-to-point or multi-access LAN interface during network maintenance or other operational events. This is accomplished by signaling adjacent IS-IS neighbors with a higher reverse metric, i.e., the metric towards the signaling IS-IS router. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Nov 4 07:38:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBF04130E2E; Sun, 4 Nov 2018 07:38:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yaron Sheffer To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154134589488.32046.1179323499664545252@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 07:38:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2018 15:38:15 -0000 Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer Review result: Has Nits Summary: document has non-security related nits. Details * The definition of "segment" is different here from the one used in the architecture RFC. The RFC is more abstract, quoting: A node steers a packet through an ordered list of instructions, called "segments". Whereas here a segment is simply a sub-path. This is confusing to a non-expert, and perhaps indicates a change in the group's thinking. * SID/Label Sub-TLV: is it Mandatory? If so, please point it out. * "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional" - I find this sentence confusing. Maybe replace by "The SR-Algorithm TLV is mandatory for routers that implement segment routing"? * The reference under "IGP Algorithm Type" registry should be to the IANA registry itself, not to the I-D that defines it. (In particular since the IANA registry has already been established, https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types). * OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV Flags octet: add the usual incantation about reserved bits. * In general I agree with the reasoning in the Security Considerations. I would like to raise the question if, in addition to mis-routing, this adds a threat of massive denial-of-service on MPLS endpoints, e.g. by allowing an attacker who has OSPF access to introduce routing loops. (This may be completely bogus, I am far from expert with either of these protocols). 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X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 07:26:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement Authors : Peter Psenak Ketan Jivan Talaulikar Wim Henderickx Padma Pillay-Esnault Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2018-11-04 Abstract: Every OSPF interface is assigned an identifier, Interface ID, which uniquely identifies the interface on the router. In some cases it is useful to know the assigned Interface ID on the remote side of the adjacency (Remote Interface ID). This draft describes the extensions to OSPF link-local signalling (LLS) to advertise the Local Interface Identifier. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 5 00:12:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FECB128CFD; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 00:12:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yn7-KDV0Q5wz; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 00:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB23F1274D0; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 00:12:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2584; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1541405559; x=1542615159; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3RuELjpgQ6FBMgNfmr0KL29zO6bV7UatfVy1re84ukE=; b=bO0Z9bHHyMSjOJd/NWfPLXABFDdPYZuVKMVXnYQbYoQJ4MlrorcQcfVz 0zpg4HX7xpfsZsitpAJEocCsICHOTEn+Zu4hZ3dirXOGJWi7nyCa0aM/i ui7JDVLwdOF2jg6PRFmaTtWSTQaaejIMMEOsw8YCdTsL4Xvg7CAtBTeVu A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AGAADB+t9b/xbLJq1kGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUgQBAQEBCwGCan8og3aId41Ely2Beg0lhEcCg2Y1DA0BAwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAgEBAm0cDIU7AQUjFTMNARALEgYCAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBNw4GAQwBBwEBgx6?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQ+nMIEgDoU9hFMFgQuLAoFBP4ERgxKDGwSEY4JXAoh3hkCFUYoqCZERGIF?= =?us-ascii?q?VhQCCfIcPl0aBRQI0gVUzGggbFTuCbYImFxKIS4U/PjABjh4BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,467,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="7813543" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Nov 2018 08:12:35 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wA58CY1h007576; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 08:12:34 GMT Message-ID: <5BDFFB72.7010100@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 09:12:34 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yaron Sheffer , secdir@ietf.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: <154134589488.32046.1179323499664545252@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154134589488.32046.1179323499664545252@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 08:12:42 -0000 Hi Yaron, thanks for your comments, please see inline: On 04/11/18 16:38 , Yaron Sheffer wrote: > Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer > Review result: Has Nits > > Summary: document has non-security related nits. > > Details > > * The definition of "segment" is different here from the one used in the > architecture RFC. The RFC is more abstract, quoting: A node steers a packet > through an ordered list of instructions, called "segments". Whereas here a > segment is simply a sub-path. This is confusing to a non-expert, and perhaps > indicates a change in the group's thinking. the definition in this draft relates to segment as used by IGPs, in which case a segment represents the sub-path. There are other segments outside of IGPs which can represent other things, but they are not covered by this draft. > > * SID/Label Sub-TLV: is it Mandatory? If so, please point it out. SID/Label Sub-TLV is not advertised on its own. It is advertised as a sub-TLV of the: 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV 3.3. SR Local Block TLV Both of these section specify that SID/Label Sub-TLV MUST be included. > > * "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional" - I find this sentence confusing. Maybe > replace by "The SR-Algorithm TLV is mandatory for routers that implement > segment routing"? the text says: "If the SR-Algorithm TLV is not advertised by the node, such node is considered as not being segment routing capable." Isn't that sufficient? > > * The reference under "IGP Algorithm Type" registry should be to the IANA > registry itself, not to the I-D that defines it. (In particular since the IANA > registry has already been established, > https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types). I got another comment from Opsdir last call review to include the I-D that defined it. I Added them both, hopefully that satisfy everybody. > > * OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV Flags octet: add the usual incantation about > reserved bits. Done. > * In general I agree with the reasoning in the Security Considerations. I would > like to raise the question if, in addition to mis-routing, this adds a threat > of massive denial-of-service on MPLS endpoints, e.g. by allowing an attacker > who has OSPF access to introduce routing loops. (This may be completely bogus, > I am far from expert with either of these protocols). above is addressed by usage of the usage of the OSPF authentication as described in the security section. thanks, Peter > > . > From nobody Mon Nov 5 00:21:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1A4130DCE; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 00:21:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154140606207.9280.12190867306336189810@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 00:21:02 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 08:21:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPFv3 Extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Peter Psenak Stefano Previdi Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2018-11-05 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF). This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required for Segment Routing with MPLS data plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 5 01:36:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928E1130DDB; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 01:36:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rJpG5wgKaxrg; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 01:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D4B2130DE2; 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05 Nov 2018 09:36:03 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (xch-rtp-013.cisco.com [64.101.220.153]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wA59a3gj029371 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Nov 2018 09:36:03 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 04:36:02 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 04:36:02 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" , "Dean Bogdanovic" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Call for "YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol" - draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AQHUdOr3ed/NV4bBuEW8s3yrJ3fMhA== Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 09:36:02 +0000 Message-ID: <000932D3-2B05-4BAC-AA0A-12A31D5C41D7@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.78.56] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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[110.170.235.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k75-v6sm39580687pfb.119.2018.11.05.01.59.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Nov 2018 01:59:56 -0800 (PST) From: Dean Bogdanovic Message-Id: <0D515666-4110-42EE-A620-77CFB06D7E41@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_69D74C48-E28F-4395-9412-EBB051A8805E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 16:59:53 +0700 In-Reply-To: <000932D3-2B05-4BAC-AA0A-12A31D5C41D7@cisco.com> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <000932D3-2B05-4BAC-AA0A-12A31D5C41D7@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol" - draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 10:00:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_69D74C48-E28F-4395-9412-EBB051A8805E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR associated with this document. Dean > On Nov 5, 2018, at 4:36 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Authors and Contributors, > =20 > Please confirm that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required = for full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have = already been filed. If not, explain why? Each author/contributor should = respond explicitly to this list. > =20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 --Apple-Mail=_69D74C48-E28F-4395-9412-EBB051A8805E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80= =99m not aware of any IPR associated with this document.

Dean

On Nov 5, 2018, at 4:36 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:

Authors and Contributors,
 
Please confirm = that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for full = conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been = filed. If not, explain why? Each author/contributor should respond = explicitly to this list.
 
Thanks,
Acee 

= --Apple-Mail=_69D74C48-E28F-4395-9412-EBB051A8805E-- From nobody Mon Nov 5 02:28:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240351274D0; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 02:28:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Acee Lindem To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org, ketant@cisco.com, Ketan Talaulikar , iesg-secretary@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154141371609.9202.681861639869550496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 02:28:36 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 10:28:36 -0000 Acee Lindem has requested publication of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/ From nobody Mon Nov 5 17:42:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1320212F295; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com, lsr@ietf.org, Yingzhen Qu , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <154146851206.4249.18070760125893242959.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2018 17:41:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Protocol Action: 'OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09.txt) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 01:41:52 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement' (draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id-09.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Link State Routing Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-lls-interface-id/ Technical Summary This draft describes the extensions to OSPF link-local signalling (LLS) to advertise the Local Interface Identifier. Working Group Summary There was initially some contention as to whether interface ID discovery via OSPFv2 LLS was required given that the interface ID can be advertised via OSPF GMPLS TE extensions [RFC4203]. However, given that the advantages of fewer LSAs, discovery concurrent with neighbor discovery, and incompatibilities with implementations adding nodes to the TE topology, the consensus was to advance this simple mechanism. Additionally, both IS-IS and OSPFv3 have similar hello-based interface ID discovery. Document Quality This document has been a WG document for more than 1 year and has had several good reviews. The author list includes multiple vendor affiliations. Personnel Yingzhen Qu is the Document Shepherd. Alvaro Retana is the Responsible Area Director. From nobody Mon Nov 5 19:51:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CBE130DCC for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 19:51:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xpwFd89R6Yoy for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 19:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x443.google.com (mail-pf1-x443.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::443]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 200DD12D4EA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 19:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x443.google.com with SMTP id j13-v6so5444216pff.11 for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2018 19:51:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :message-id:date:to; bh=6hvCoZAfQaJfNkj4fi3Mov5YT9pS/i+znwpWWeEuy1E=; b=IjRXPzox1C4Q2pinxkmUt965NyAP55LWKA1PAAL/W720Pkco2JI3vTy0b9iq7E6ehD JWJX5CYsqxe7NFgAERPhMLMhbjBcZziIjM6JnTDMDCG2Eg3HkLi/rnxR+akmuEp3Mn8K 1W4+ZZ9tIwE2p63dj0F//AkwJ32JqaCN7aCGdpTCXnxbldKFlkSRpkyqOeD2wo9TZNtA g6J0SMmScx3EEbsjl1Mfdq50qRU6k3Y2XHZQd//MSQBNe2fLzJQbgoXE6iweeKaGyJwa bo8T2u8xUv8KQflV1JgLxeVApl9kVN6LECzmp2vaoO3biFhhZODdajRiB1bZu3Csy2mL FAAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=6hvCoZAfQaJfNkj4fi3Mov5YT9pS/i+znwpWWeEuy1E=; b=E7Z1859321KyjhYPN6AkqI0WbNfjIkVZyZsjCUJ03aGutVUEUlTHtUGVS5emyh6cQt b0ZwpyMzOvtY51lQg7SN8yPN2+twwumzulW8wjRI2HnUotMSQdQ5OOVVUSXQ6G8iznb+ scMoPSqUxPE1TV9QBLnlLOIp9pFIubfjiuoMDynQFVbTy6XiJdgpJst+EKVULeD8P/ED Gjm+y3dx5jYPzjb/3Od65352GxY82KTe0tqA6w999V3BfNAQbhBgYhw2c7kiS0ueAR/n 0SM7DD/s+GUcZV3kZ+xARhKBzYj+kHKIMB8z+/d+BsMkWca34adHQSW66W+Yvx973Vc4 o5hA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKG8BeIOMYYADZrLGQLTxkgn1iv4OIjAEz0TxFSOCCb+b/Ypb0I PHkxm6vAYK2GxMJl35Ll7HYGte9qNY0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dS6/7OZwy11kQWAOp2+mi2OVf9/7DmrHxdUf/4atBUSWy92xTdjCSOp8KHzCsRJQ39zDjh7g== X-Received: by 2002:a62:93d5:: with SMTP id r82-v6mr21441693pfk.55.1541476296168; Mon, 05 Nov 2018 19:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:1520:956c:5c0d:2023? ([2001:67c:370:128:1520:956c:5c0d:2023]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u19-v6sm70537226pfj.115.2018.11.05.19.51.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Nov 2018 19:51:35 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 10:51:33 +0700 To: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 03:51:38 -0000 Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: This is good work and I support it. I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol = available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we=E2=80=99= re at it. In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth = operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues by = using QUIC. Tony From nobody Mon Nov 5 20:21:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F12130DD9 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HovS5LMU3FCQ for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71CEC130DD2 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 185891E4F6; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 23:20:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 23:20:56 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: tony.li@tony.li Cc: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181106042056.GA29303@pfrc.org> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 04:21:39 -0000 On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 10:51:33AM +0700, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: > > This is good work and I support it. Ditto. > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol available > and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we’re at it. In > particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth operation in the > modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues by using QUIC. I'm ambivalent of the transport, but agree that TCP shouldn't be the default answer. My concerns that I tried raising via jabber summarize roughly as follows: - TCP is prone to interesting backpressure issues, typically as a result of packet loss or slow receivers. - TCP timers can react poorly in some environments where you may want time sensitive things. This includes something as long as 3 second BGP hold timers. - IGPs have a lot of interesting timer hacks to try to ensure that a given domain has a consistent database prior to running an SPF. In the face of "stuck" flooding due to backpressure or other things, some of these may need to be revisited. It's been over a year since I looked at QUIC. I agree with Tony that a number of the properties it had on my last read are desirable. I'd suggest that its behavior (especially timers) in the event of packet loss should be given a look at based on the comments above. - Jeff From nobody Mon Nov 5 20:21:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA686130F20 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0CHOoJEwWcd8 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net [194.109.24.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7051F130EE9 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2018 20:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:215]) by smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id Jss3gEXppSskCJss3gU0L5; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 05:21:46 +0100 Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.163.74.169]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 06 Nov 2018 05:21:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 05:21:43 +0100 From: Henk Smit To: tony.li@tony.li Cc: lsr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> Message-ID: <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDJQx7HlyIxDgZFSaon3B2RD0YlmSpxK0UgCyzalIXGf9jq/SGVwCIb0xx2njTjAacKW0QXhGC+2ysSL/OoM/nTU5R8v730ttZGmW46+AKCBpZ+rxtx2 NcfXkHkJQ8/2eB1+F/L70eMOhSqZEv9BhP1bwNBCawZroSiiZrdNS/7vVuQlOGGzhN+tT9CfXZesXfeRPvVYvl4fTEnfpNlFioZOxKEzPK0DSunqQkelIRrt Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 04:21:55 -0000 Thanks, Tony. We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP stack in it. That made it the obvious choice. Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's ability to use TCP for flooding. That TLV has several sub-TVLs. 1) the TCP port-number 2) an IPv4 address 3) and/or an IPv6 address We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates: 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number or other identifier to use to connect over that protocol. This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today. And add/replace it with other protocols in the future. henk. tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51: > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: > > This is good work and I support it. > > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we’re > at it. In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues > by using QUIC. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Tue Nov 6 00:35:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7221F12D4F1 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 00:35:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R8rcXnoufsWN for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 00:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB9A8130DCB for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 00:35:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2058; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1541493330; x=1542702930; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=8hOOdDulo0lc7djxhbVoFbyRBVTmf01DRo3t0usP8hA=; b=CW1MTEuKIzD322PXgxBCbU3YKf9mI2Tvm2vKtXnM923S+OJqe5mnwnet g7eqLYBVAK2TlHtP+YH51AV5fU/u8KKUP6CrfDFB9LQQ07xjJaC2A5e2q fM9L2kV0cw5SQgrVpeCStacDaUu/TAq0U5sMp8PVspkbhgqajbDaQfrCw 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ANAAALUuFb/5tdJa1kGwEBAQEDAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BBwMBAQGBUQYBAQELAYFVL4FlMowEpVSBegsBAYhGIjQNDQEDAQECAQECbR0?= =?us-ascii?q?LhXs4GQE+QiYBBBuFG6oYijKLdheBQT+BEYdqhgECiTUDlXsJAoFejykggVW?= =?us-ascii?q?IIoZplCCDAgIRFIEmHTiBVXAVgyiCJheOG4xOgS2BHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,471,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="475315757" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Nov 2018 08:35:17 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wA68ZHdl013518 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 08:35:17 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 02:35:16 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 02:35:16 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-01 Thread-Index: AdR1qD81pjgkV90qR46upnlNNAREXQ== Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 08:35:16 +0000 Message-ID: <49f4a0ace8424a119d1f7b7d9eceba21@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Comments on draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 08:35:31 -0000 Having now read the draft in its entirety... As per the discussion in the WG meeting today... I agree that MT and its relationship to address-families can be confusing. I also agree that when deploying multiple address-family support the decisi= on to use/not-use MT can be confusing. I also agree that now that IPv6 only deployments are becoming a reality whe= ther to use MTID #0 or MTID #2 can be confusing. Etc. The discussion in the WG seemed to focus on the benefits of writing a deplo= yment guide to both recommend desirable deployments configurations and aler= t folks to the problems they are likely to see if they are not careful in e= nsuring their topology usage matches their actual address-family support. It is often the case that vendors write configuration/deployment guides to = provide guidance to their customers as to how to configure a feature. In do= ing so, a vendor is free to express their biases as to what they consider a= preferred strategy. If the IETF were to do the same thing, there is a higher bar - since any IE= TF document represents a consensus of the WG in which it was written. There is more than one way to configure address-family support and each of = us may have our biases as to which of the multiple strategies is preferred.= Consensus on this is not required nor is it necessarily easy to achieve. I am therefore NOT eager to have the IETF become the home of "feature deplo= yment guides". If we were to proceed with this draft at all, I therefore think we should l= imit the scope to merely explaining what the requirements for correct opera= tion are using the various modes. I emphasize again that RFC 1195 speaks quite directly to the limitations of= using a single topology to support multiple "address-families". (The discu= ssion there is CLNS/IP oriented - but the issues are the same as IPv4/IPv6.= ) I am not fully convinced we need an additional draft on this topic. But I a= m convinced that IETF should NOT be writing deployments guides. Les From nobody Tue Nov 6 01:00:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C19E1130E1B; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 01:00:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hi3h7adPlIlg; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 01:00:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9E16124BE5; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 01:00:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id n10-v6so5513087pgv.10; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 01:00:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2xJMclPpH4J+mNCTzFIylLs1nr9/x/ZD356jp9P582k=; b=FQ7MfcNySjnMLyoHpq1GVAmPsJxwQuXwkL0Yn9L6BttwUZq98mL4wS01Rxrz2ScYxc RW9pyDBfKqKC/1sDBBgqm/vs1abLsm6ZQWQVTAJJgYWUMLXpE4hMEuQmRiCvJ/cMT03P FTJVQ+4AobF/CU2hc5tLLTZsim3EoLnbOcmgd6ZwsuEY6WecenbOsLD2IrHzbcqCzO7N Cl2IUPomxPRCcpjy1GHOHjb5oQlXQ55fhMe1c44NP5ldxg7auFyV5NM/13aiMWsJeq1T yaY2O4hA4Tb8QT/AVEUGfmao3qG7SY0HkeHUPg+/pWdACOmB3TERvD9BaA9OnfKgWvCW uZTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2xJMclPpH4J+mNCTzFIylLs1nr9/x/ZD356jp9P582k=; b=hUL0MOG+8PpAo4KeOLb4qoDNJiZF39NadlL9VMZ1k9apFdjCAPmJL0I/Ojql5j5i21 FEv7xjT7T+gzfOQOvpTvbN8e/1xrGCmPxy486I/rNJnLjg1OoIYr5lVeEAnERyb409pY 4ZuuLjSqYoSJAb40EUCamntnMhn3TzfdsYU9TxT5Bf3Swqji451WWdd9sodfQb5U5oE+ +INj8IMnzFQArRaIzFOAKk3fV9FL7Z5dvy1Q1RBKa9aYLYIWae2pEE5r9LCF4uPzEGu3 35TQg7/GABUt6HuoFBhpk3lHGrWZsfFZvqJeGBzQZaFkWERlP/7ofQzrb6WUULg5hdFY 3obA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKqA9B8wxUKQBYAO0FXGhXPDyVmo/CFr6iyJs/D6Fsux7e7tI5H irVtfwLjIfpRBqQxQ+uV+oWUybGD X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5c8pvj6Bk90bvYKk7lUB2fZFx3HxJRIYCZEvCmPElCCOn0cMRZYzJGhoCHj1s8fZJb6XsmS7A== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2d82:: with SMTP id t124mr22913426pgt.260.1541494812822; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 01:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.30.16.28] ([49.231.0.179]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u6-v6sm25185841pgq.19.2018.11.06.01.00.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Nov 2018 01:00:12 -0800 (PST) To: Peter Psenak , secdir@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: <154134589488.32046.1179323499664545252@ietfa.amsl.com> <5BDFFB72.7010100@cisco.com> From: Yaron Sheffer Message-ID: <09c65027-5352-f783-7cbb-af5f8aa95cec@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 08:13:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5BDFFB72.7010100@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2018 09:00:17 -0000 Thank you Peter, this addresses my comments. Yaron On 05/11/2018 10:12, Peter Psenak wrote: > Hi Yaron, > > thanks for your comments, please see inline: > > > On 04/11/18 16:38 , Yaron Sheffer wrote: >> Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer >> Review result: Has Nits >> >> Summary: document has non-security related nits. >> >> Details >> >> * The definition of "segment" is different here from the one used in the >> architecture RFC. The RFC is more abstract, quoting: A node steers a >> packet >> through an ordered list of instructions, called "segments". Whereas >> here a >> segment is simply a sub-path. This is confusing to a non-expert, and >> perhaps >> indicates a change in the group's thinking. > > the definition in this draft relates to segment as used by IGPs, in > which case a segment represents the sub-path. There are other segments > outside of IGPs which can represent other things, but they are not > covered by this draft. > > >> >> * SID/Label Sub-TLV: is it Mandatory? If so, please point it out. > > SID/Label Sub-TLV is not advertised on its own. It is advertised as a > sub-TLV of the: > > 3.2.  SID/Label Range TLV > 3.3.  SR Local Block TLV > > Both of these section specify that SID/Label Sub-TLV MUST be included. > >> >> * "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional" - I find this sentence confusing. >> Maybe >> replace by "The SR-Algorithm TLV is mandatory for routers that implement >> segment routing"? > > > the text says: > >    "If the SR-Algorithm TLV >    is not advertised by the node, such node is considered as not being >    segment routing capable." > > Isn't that sufficient? > > >> >> * The reference under "IGP Algorithm Type" registry should be to the IANA >> registry itself, not to the I-D that defines it. (In particular since >> the IANA >> registry has already been established, >> https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types). >> > > I got another comment from Opsdir last call review to include the I-D > that defined it. I Added them both, hopefully that satisfy everybody. > >> >> * OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV Flags octet: add the usual >> incantation about >> reserved bits. > > Done. > > > > >> * In general I agree with the reasoning in the Security >> Considerations. I would >> like to raise the question if, in addition to mis-routing, this adds a >> threat >> of massive denial-of-service on MPLS endpoints, e.g. by allowing an >> attacker >> who has OSPF access to introduce routing loops. (This may be >> completely bogus, >> I am far from expert with either of these protocols). > > above is addressed by usage of the usage of the OSPF authentication as > described in the security section. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> . >> > From nobody Tue Nov 6 19:00:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E278C12785F for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 19:00:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fU6wk1QMWJHH for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 19:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x644.google.com (mail-pl1-x644.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::644]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D58F127332 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 19:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x644.google.com with SMTP id n4-v6so7194891plp.2 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 19:00:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :message-id:date:to; bh=kRI8Pt5M9pNs3jqah7TAgKTUKeO+HbY5YlgKjiW9aC4=; b=Y9ITDdYAPxU4U4WODHWYYAcYvx8tSPBTTgSSoIeAckAZGvvlJ5b64AifFZegSzWLER dEv+Otop1aSkY9GOR9x9JssXMBSNMGj8Jnc6Onu68ixlFMv3j7hQ588NaJvUWWE1TXAo GMg+YgxiHYJdnvbMlSrobyvdl3KNUwIfmAbAuW/SyMyZhocLDXZs7UxVD++UmniRtUqG 3+xQUtuNpuF6XK/+4rU1SsZnKqt9NhNoqhpVZOYPVgt4e5W7P237HOsAQHkIdeC9UmU+ tDdUxwyeetPLN5bznOBdD5Ml/dF1glbwefUgeokSXK07edYY5JJeNWDTLgKcvVYja9qn WJgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=kRI8Pt5M9pNs3jqah7TAgKTUKeO+HbY5YlgKjiW9aC4=; b=auMPF6/glC8Uiui5U612gtnqmW8rL/h+nwFBBsUQos4s0MZFI1ngpWKQ6WYRFq9PVG AP1ve9AK8WnakLngpMpptf1i6I8XJAS9de13Bt8yWsidVVqrhaGj56/Iqs9EodzSUmBo ZRRHlN5UebWMpE+5sMuhdkLdtqaTBYX2LLwGgNj+M5cDtsA1BzgFF15wF3xEoan2vP8u r36cDDq7Qg5QDYXrPQi8HQar/oifylcbywnKmcHaSoEprzePBrJ9lkXzK7WWQdGZvljq m6PAbnpo/h9bPqvQ7f8sapwVgLCkW4blytgd6y2Xf6l8608843Nb0i0Kqt7uZMzF5220 AfTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJfG2D5PjkLt3O6l0/1uGVy0Ix8hes61JtHQGzbEvgO2X9LOU5O 2tZyWWd9FxILUgf3Mx2NwcCAZDiCUzo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cFIvn0djH0/s1AutLPFFcOXT3YT4pMDCE9u2FkokCgOsEnWY2QpN2VUDpX0VnQdDnqB4Jazg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d24:: with SMTP id 33-v6mr125579plu.319.1541559646389; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 19:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:1833:34ed:9c08:c7dd? ([2001:67c:370:128:1833:34ed:9c08:c7dd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u12-v6sm46125231pfi.83.2018.11.06.19.00.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Nov 2018 19:00:45 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: <425FF31B-A4DB-4187-8BAA-7F9E89F26882@tony.li> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 10:00:43 +0700 To: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Side meeting: Flooding reduction X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 03:00:48 -0000 Hi all, I would like to invite all interested parties to a side meeting to = discuss (and resolve) our direction on the LSR flooding proposals. Time: 9am Friday, Nov. 9 Location: Boromphimarn 3 Please RSVP unicast to me.=20 If I don=E2=80=99t see a critical mass of responses within 24 hours, I = will mail out a cancellation. Otherwise, the meeting is on. Thanks, Tony From nobody Tue Nov 6 20:09:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD1EB127148 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sV2PHzlfoi2v for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 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IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQQhdtsLtzGL0aulBBpslE59KVCif6AgAEjL2A= Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 04:09:44 +0000 Message-ID: <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 04:09:50 -0000 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([2001:67c:370:128:551d:cb33:c46b:13b6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i88-v6sm49326196pfi.66.2018.11.06.20.38.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Nov 2018 20:38:16 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <0044DE1B-0A9F-46F4-83BC-EB2F5C59151C@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2127D708-4D20-4C97-88D6-E09D2B41316A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:38:13 +0700 In-Reply-To: <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Cc: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 04:38:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2127D708-4D20-4C97-88D6-E09D2B41316A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Les, > On Nov 7, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > 2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are = rather dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base = specification by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding = bursts on an interface in support of fast convergence. There are = existing and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of = neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence = is supported. So the statement that the existing protocol per interface = flooding is a blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) = accurate. The more accurate characterization of the flooding problem in = dense topologies is the amount of redundant flooding (i.e., a node may = receive many copies of a new LSP) - which your proposal does nothing to = address (I understand it was not intended to address this problem which = you discuss in a different draft). >=20 > My point here is that there are existing implementations which would = get no benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone = writing a new implementation may find it simpler to make use of a = transport mechanism like TCP - but I do not think there is compelling = data that demonstrates that the scalability of an implementation using = your proposal is better than that of many existing implementations. >=20 > This then suggests that for existing implementations the main = motivation to support your proposal is to help other implementations = which have not optimized their existing implementations. :-) > Comments?=20 If there are undocumented implementation enhancements, then other = implementations cannot be presumed to have implemented them. Other = implementors are fully within their rights to propose other solutions to = the same issues that the undocumented enhancements address. My recommendation would be to document these enhancements. However, if = you choose not to, I think that the WG is fully within its rights to = pursue other solutions. Regards, Tony p.s. Nothing is new again. This is analogous to the situation with = HSRP/VRRP. Have we learned from that? --Apple-Mail=_2127D708-4D20-4C97-88D6-E09D2B41316A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Les,

On Nov = 7, 2018, at 11:09 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> = wrote:

2)Your statements regarding = existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are rather dated. Many years ago = implementations varied from the base specification by allowing much = faster flooding and contiguous flooding bursts on an interface in = support of fast convergence. There are existing and successful = deployments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and thousands of = nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. So the = statement that the existing protocol per interface flooding is a = blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The = more accurate characterization of the flooding problem in dense = topologies is the amount of redundant flooding (i.e., a node may receive = many copies of a new LSP) - which your proposal does nothing to address = (I understand it was not intended to address this problem which you = discuss in a different draft).

My point here is that there are existing implementations = which would get no benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that = someone writing a new implementation may find it simpler to make use of = a transport mechanism like TCP - but I do not think there is compelling = data that demonstrates that the scalability of an implementation using = your proposal is better than that of many existing = implementations.

This then suggests that for existing implementations the main = motivation to support your proposal is to help other implementations = which have not optimized their existing implementations. :-)
Comments? 


If = there are undocumented implementation enhancements, then other = implementations cannot be presumed to have implemented them.  Other = implementors are fully within their rights to propose other solutions to = the same issues that the undocumented enhancements address.

My recommendation would = be to document these enhancements.  However, if you choose not to, = I think that the WG is fully within its rights to pursue other = solutions.

Regards,
Tony

p.s. Nothing is new again.  This = is analogous to the situation with HSRP/VRRP.  Have we learned from = that?

= --Apple-Mail=_2127D708-4D20-4C97-88D6-E09D2B41316A-- From nobody Tue Nov 6 20:51:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C95130DCF for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:51:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CWuydKZU4PjX for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9466C12785F for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id c25-v6so12354467edt.8 for ; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 20:51:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KIMmD61UW8bvLnYQV3mdEa2X8/+NR+VusqG7cKsYhvY=; b=Ff64CTwCMQHTUNr6fwYntX5dlcfZ5r8Mmy2j8sTbI8rVjhfTGlfTo9/GFwk8j6Aiqg 0kPOvr8Q+wmhOhX7JFozxKxggxW33RggEVFovKePg+uh2TTMykyH3npT9tLsq5JITrkh yyOWrV281B4qKk/o0ilkC2qWXGrq10ZiKPJKCW4Q+AKxKsZcmKvpR/H0I0lDsM3mkXQa UybBHFnolspvpD7c/+D233dIEdLmCpYaIWno5oFs91786fFi7MqyI60+F5wCdU/s4dzY N7ZlJkkUwuwTJarwOnLDaAt7nMArlKWyRP8sFybj6ea3bswgedeXLRAOivjgQ0SNDP0D ZI8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KIMmD61UW8bvLnYQV3mdEa2X8/+NR+VusqG7cKsYhvY=; b=W9k1mhu3jqejoog6mjjvbAdtIxUuL/2+Y2vbCAy7GUjEqgC90jngysHl5RV+kl4j4Y 9aeFMJibF+jl8RN7EH7lQS9maRJrAzsIvj9G4nXx/E4oQ4AWyw/8oG4QQblh8Y8kjN2E ls/CisBdtw4sLeUYTsELTwjnLwTi7o7DGrKDTQcR9THoRs5oiMUpyGplW8W+vrlVIeu0 UoHQ2VJRd0Dp8vaXuOKQo+r0OnnXvmiMUpGaec0Pr91Uwhr+XCaQchYY/Glb4igV7Fj5 Ro/MhEbNg2Po4iAzcxmgVmEXN2qiMX8XSRCI9TiaFN7jzBJotT4AjvzDXId3YYeq5GCQ uQvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLiRIDGlcBm1nDt8DWn/BfzhUPWi3EMWP0MgDvqdJoiYfRHCxAm tMFjJMO/UxI8z4EhoeJy9Twi7p/GZWWppbJzcsEDgXEx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fWRrZmmlhgA2aIDcWWK7Chtg/k4QSwLEYeaHM0MHkgefP/jjtWtXbMgP2dPs3qbW5Q/DBrs3QwypAHDrQAY8c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:7d4:: with SMTP id u20mr666505edy.81.1541566297553; Tue, 06 Nov 2018 20:51:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:50:39 +0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl, Tony Li , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000903d2f057a0bdf05" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 04:51:42 -0000 --000000000000903d2f057a0bdf05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > 2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are > rather dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base > specification by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding > bursts on an interface in support of fast convergence. There are existing > and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and > thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. So > the statement that the existing protocol per interface flooding is a > blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The more > accurate characterization of the flooding problem in dense topologies is > the amount of redundant flooding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of a > new LSP) - which your proposal does nothing to address (I understand it was > not intended to address this problem which you discuss in a different > draft). > > unsurprisingly +1 here ... Further, if you start to go that path (i.e. max. flooding transport speed which contrary to Les I think does have value but not necessarily for ISIS) and you _really_ care about max. flooding speed you end up most likely in _go over UDP_ route as people like bitttorent or QUIC guys went. There is a good reason behind that ;-) Moreover, if you form adjacencies that way you'll find that MT/MI problems are fairly trivial to resolve. Problem being though taht the 'well-known port', 'well-known-protocol', 'well-known-ethertype' allowing for policing of the protocol vanishes and you have to be smarter ... two old hands' gave you two cents ;-) --- tony --000000000000903d2f057a0bdf05 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are rath= er dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base specification= by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding bursts on an inte= rface in support of fast convergence. There are existing and successful dep= loyments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and thousands of nodes = in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. So the statement that= the existing protocol per interface flooding is a blocking factor in highl= y meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The more accurate characterizati= on of the flooding problem in dense topologies is the amount of redundant f= looding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of a new LSP) - which your pr= oposal does nothing to address (I understand it was not intended to address= this problem which you discuss in a different draft).


unsurprisingly=C2=A0+1 here ...

Further, if you start to go that path (i.e. max. fl= ooding transport speed which contrary to Les I think does have value but no= t necessarily for ISIS) and you _really_ care about max. flooding speed you= end up most likely in _go over UDP_ route as people like bitttorent or QUI= C guys went. There is a good reason behind that ;-) Moreover, if you form a= djacencies that way you'll find that MT/MI problems are fairly trivial = to resolve. Problem being though taht the 'well-known port', 'w= ell-known-protocol', 'well-known-ethertype' allowing for polici= ng of the protocol vanishes and you have to be smarter ...
<= br>
two old hands' gave you two cents ;-)

=
--- tony
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([2001:67c:370:128:599b:2dbd:5b78:dfab]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v12-v6sm39257030pfa.167.2018.11.06.23.58.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Nov 2018 23:58:42 -0800 (PST) From: Dean Bogdanovic Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FBCBC2B5-3163-45ED-B149-57EC6CA93A18" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:58:39 +0700 In-Reply-To: <169CC7F6-0D2A-4FF4-AB43-C16A8AED5885@cisco.com> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" , "KiranKoushik.AgraharaSreenivasa@verisonwireless.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <169CC7F6-0D2A-4FF4-AB43-C16A8AED5885@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol" - draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 07:58:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FBCBC2B5-3163-45ED-B149-57EC6CA93A18 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR related to this draft=20 Dean > On Nov 7, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Authors and Contributors, > =20 > Please confirm that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required = for full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have = already been filed. If not, explain why? Each author/contributor should = respond explicitly to this list. > =20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 --Apple-Mail=_FBCBC2B5-3163-45ED-B149-57EC6CA93A18 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi,

I=E2=80= =99m not aware of any IPR related to this draft 

Dean

On Nov 7, 2018, at 2:44 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:

Authors and Contributors,
 
Please confirm = that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for full = conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been = filed. If not, explain why? Each author/contributor should respond = explicitly to this list.
 
Thanks,
Acee 

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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gtLVgR3P8iFH for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 00:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82e.google.com (mail-qt1-x82e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CBF41286D9 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 00:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82e.google.com with SMTP id c16-v6so5736331qtj.13 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 00:39:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uAOjfNEh/Dk8qz3QQQZ21aP9+x6/K/HnMNpRO+G405w=; 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AGRZ1gKQrFVDovMGeolVuErIZPzItRfjf0PasajonaXgGUgXcfvmzNNv 7BtlBoDW3rB/0wAAITR3P4g5lzIfYKxlybdqO1yocGMS2rQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5etOzlNlrr/Q5+OhhBMtH65susVtgm2jQ1JGtytf+lyT/y2e1C6CvZ4IgLWemppRb0WE8RmOKs8U6PnSJXvHi8= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e84f:: with SMTP id l15mr856744qvo.124.1541579961433; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 00:39:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 09:39:11 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl, Tony Li , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe9789057a0f0d7a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 08:39:26 -0000 --000000000000fe9789057a0f0d7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, > There are existing and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of > neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. While I completely agree with your above observation (and as a matter of fact first person to tell me that was actually Henk around year 2000) may I ask what problem are we solving with vast majority of the proposals in space of "IGP scaling" for data center deployments currently on the table ? Are we perfecting the perfect ? It sounds that what is really needed is a deployment guide (perhaps in the form of informational RFC) documenting that use of ISIS in 1000(s) node DC cluster is fine provided features X, Y, Z are enabled. Otherwise folks out there in the field no matter what is done here will keep using BGP for huge 50 node DC clusters because RFC7938 says so. Cheers, Robert. On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:09 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Henk/Gunter - > > Couple of points. > > 1)IS-IS PDUs are sent directly over layer 2 - whereas TCP (or other > transport) are sent over Layer3. > This means we have a potential fate sharing issue where IIHs (which > continue to be sent over Layer 2 in your proposal (as I understand it) ma= y > be successfully exchanged but the transport session set up to send > LSPs/SNPs may fail. This is the exact issue RFC 6213 has addressed. > > What should happen if IIHs are being successfully exchanged, the neighbor= s > both indicate support for the extension, but the transport session fails = to > come up or goes down? > Would you follow similar behavior to RFC 6213 i.e., bring the adjacency > down? If so, how would you determine when you can bring the adjacency up? > > I appreciate you have indicated this as TBD in Section 7.6 of the draft, > but you also say in Section 7.5 that adjacency should NOT go down when > transport session fails - which implies we can have an ongoing condition > where an adjacency is up but > flooding cannot be done- which is a pathological condition. > > 2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are > rather dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base > specification by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding > bursts on an interface in support of fast convergence. There are existing > and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and > thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. = So > the statement that the existing protocol per interface flooding is a > blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The mo= re > accurate characterization of the flooding problem in dense topologies is > the amount of redundant flooding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of= a > new LSP) - which your proposal does nothing to address (I understand it w= as > not intended to address this problem which you discuss in a different > draft). > > My point here is that there are existing implementations which would get > no benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone writing a > new implementation may find it simpler to make use of a transport mechani= sm > like TCP - but I do not think there is compelling data that demonstrates > that the scalability of an implementation using your proposal is better > than that of many existing implementations. > > This then suggests that for existing implementations the main motivation > to support your proposal is to help other implementations which have not > optimized their existing implementations. :-) > Comments? > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Henk Smit > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 8:22 PM > > To: tony.li@tony.li > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP > > > > > > Thanks, Tony. > > > > We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP stac= k > > in it. > > That made it the obvious choice. > > > > Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's > > ability to use TCP for flooding. > > That TLV has several sub-TVLs. > > 1) the TCP port-number > > 2) an IPv4 address > > 3) and/or an IPv6 address > > > > We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates: > > 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use > > 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number > > or other identifier to use to connect over that protocol. > > > > This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today. > > And add/replace it with other protocols in the future. > > > > henk. > > > > > > > > tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51: > > > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: > > > > > > This is good work and I support it. > > > > > > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol > > > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we=E2= =80=99re > > > at it. In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth > > > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues > > > by using QUIC. > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000fe9789057a0f0d7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Les,

> There are existing and suc= cessful deployments of an instance with thousands of=C2=A0
> n= eighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is = supported.=C2=A0=C2=A0

While I completely agre= e with your above observation (and as a matter of fact first person to tell= me that was actually Henk around year 2000) may I ask what problem are we = solving with vast majority of the proposals in space of "IGP scaling&q= uot; for data center deployments currently on the table ? Are we perfecting= the perfect ?=C2=A0

It sounds that what is really= needed is a deployment guide (perhaps in the form of informational RFC) do= cumenting that use of ISIS in 1000(s) node DC cluster is fine provided feat= ures X, Y, Z are enabled.=C2=A0

Otherwise folks ou= t there in the field no matter what is done here will keep using BGP for hu= ge 50 node DC clusters because RFC7938 says so.

Ch= eers,
Robert.


<= div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:09 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
=
Henk/Gunter -

Couple of points.

1)IS-IS PDUs are sent directly over layer 2 - whereas TCP (or other transpo= rt) are sent over Layer3.
This means we have a potential fate sharing issue where IIHs (which continu= e to be sent over Layer 2 in your proposal (as I understand it) may be succ= essfully exchanged but the transport session set up to send LSPs/SNPs may f= ail. This is the exact issue RFC 6213 has addressed.

What should happen if IIHs are being successfully exchanged, the neighbors = both indicate support for the extension, but the transport session fails to= come up or goes down?
Would you follow similar behavior to RFC 6213 i.e., bring the adjacency dow= n? If so, how would you determine when you can bring the adjacency up?

I appreciate you have indicated this as TBD in Section 7.6 of the draft, bu= t you also say in Section 7.5 that adjacency should NOT go down when transp= ort session fails - which implies we can have an ongoing condition where an= adjacency is up but
flooding cannot be done-=C2=A0 which is a pathological condition.

2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are rath= er dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base specification= by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding bursts on an inte= rface in support of fast convergence. There are existing and successful dep= loyments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and thousands of nodes = in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. So the statement that= the existing protocol per interface flooding is a blocking factor in highl= y meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The more accurate characterizati= on of the flooding problem in dense topologies is the amount of redundant f= looding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of a new LSP) - which your pr= oposal does nothing to address (I understand it was not intended to address= this problem which you discuss in a different draft).

My point here is that there are existing implementations which would get no= benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone writing a new = implementation may find it simpler to make use of a transport mechanism lik= e TCP - but I do not think there is compelling data that demonstrates that = the scalability of an implementation using your proposal is better than tha= t of many existing implementations.

This then suggests that for existing implementations the main motivation to= support your proposal is to help other implementations which have not opti= mized their existing implementations. :-)
Comments?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 8:22 PM
> To: tony.li@tony.= li
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org=
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP
>
>
> Thanks, Tony.
>
> We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP sta= ck
> in it.
> That made it the obvious choice.
>
> Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's
> ability to use TCP for flooding.
> That TLV has several sub-TVLs.
> 1) the TCP port-number
> 2) an IPv4 address
> 3) and/or an IPv6 address
>
> We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates:
> 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use
> 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or other identifier to use to connect over that pro= tocol.
>
> This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today.
> And add/replace it with other protocols in the future.
>
> henk.
>
>
>
> tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51:
> > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list:
> >
> > This is good work and I support it.
> >
> > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol<= br> > > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we= =E2=80=99re
> > at it.=C2=A0 In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwi= dth
> > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start iss= ues
> > by using QUIC.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "hhwsmit@xs4all.nl" , Tony Li , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQQhdtsLtzGL0aulBBpslE59KVCif6AgAEjL2CAALcWgP//nYkg Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 08:54:44 +0000 Message-ID: <202838e9138148cf95965531edfa97af@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_202838e9138148cf95965531edfa97afXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link 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Li , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d9f374057a0f7aba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 09:09:52 -0000 --000000000000d9f374057a0f7aba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, I am very well aware about different scopes of both drafts. Actually I read them all. But just wanted to make sure your point about ISIS working fine today with 1000s node networks is really a prove that flooding optimisation is still *practically* needed/required. Btw ... Henk has a second proposal - a companion document to flooding over TCP on flooding reduction too. Perhaps you missed it :) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-dnfm/ Thx, R. On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 9:54 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Robert =E2=80=93 > > > > The comment being discussed here is in regards to the potential benefits > of altering IS-IS to use a different way of flooding over an interface. > > Whether we agree/disagree on this does not have any bearing on the high > amount of redundant flooding which occurs in a highly meshed network =E2= =80=93 > which I think all of us agree is a problem worth addressing. > > > > The latter is addressed in a number of drafts =E2=80=93 including Henk/Gu= nter=E2=80=99s > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-dnfm/ . > > > > But this thread is about > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp/ = . > > > > Please do not confuse the two. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:39 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* hhwsmit@xs4all.nl; Tony Li ; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP > > > > Hi Les, > > > > > There are existing and successful deployments of an instance with > thousands of > > > neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergenc= e > is supported. > > > > While I completely agree with your above observation (and as a matter of > fact first person to tell me that was actually Henk around year 2000) may= I > ask what problem are we solving with vast majority of the proposals in > space of "IGP scaling" for data center deployments currently on the table= ? > Are we perfecting the perfect ? > > > > It sounds that what is really needed is a deployment guide (perhaps in th= e > form of informational RFC) documenting that use of ISIS in 1000(s) node D= C > cluster is fine provided features X, Y, Z are enabled. > > > > Otherwise folks out there in the field no matter what is done here will > keep using BGP for huge 50 node DC clusters because RFC7938 says so. > > > > Cheers, > Robert. > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:09 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > Henk/Gunter - > > Couple of points. > > 1)IS-IS PDUs are sent directly over layer 2 - whereas TCP (or other > transport) are sent over Layer3. > This means we have a potential fate sharing issue where IIHs (which > continue to be sent over Layer 2 in your proposal (as I understand it) ma= y > be successfully exchanged but the transport session set up to send > LSPs/SNPs may fail. This is the exact issue RFC 6213 has addressed. > > What should happen if IIHs are being successfully exchanged, the neighbor= s > both indicate support for the extension, but the transport session fails = to > come up or goes down? > Would you follow similar behavior to RFC 6213 i.e., bring the adjacency > down? If so, how would you determine when you can bring the adjacency up? > > I appreciate you have indicated this as TBD in Section 7.6 of the draft, > but you also say in Section 7.5 that adjacency should NOT go down when > transport session fails - which implies we can have an ongoing condition > where an adjacency is up but > flooding cannot be done- which is a pathological condition. > > 2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are > rather dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base > specification by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding > bursts on an interface in support of fast convergence. There are existing > and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of neighbors and > thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergence is supported. = So > the statement that the existing protocol per interface flooding is a > blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The mo= re > accurate characterization of the flooding problem in dense topologies is > the amount of redundant flooding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of= a > new LSP) - which your proposal does nothing to address (I understand it w= as > not intended to address this problem which you discuss in a different > draft). > > My point here is that there are existing implementations which would get > no benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone writing a > new implementation may find it simpler to make use of a transport mechani= sm > like TCP - but I do not think there is compelling data that demonstrates > that the scalability of an implementation using your proposal is better > than that of many existing implementations. > > This then suggests that for existing implementations the main motivation > to support your proposal is to help other implementations which have not > optimized their existing implementations. :-) > Comments? > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Henk Smit > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 8:22 PM > > To: tony.li@tony.li > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP > > > > > > Thanks, Tony. > > > > We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP stac= k > > in it. > > That made it the obvious choice. > > > > Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's > > ability to use TCP for flooding. > > That TLV has several sub-TVLs. > > 1) the TCP port-number > > 2) an IPv4 address > > 3) and/or an IPv6 address > > > > We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates: > > 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use > > 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number > > or other identifier to use to connect over that protocol. > > > > This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today. > > And add/replace it with other protocols in the future. > > > > henk. > > > > > > > > tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51: > > > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: > > > > > > This is good work and I support it. > > > > > > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol > > > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we=E2= =80=99re > > > at it. In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth > > > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues > > > by using QUIC. > > > > > > Tony > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > --000000000000d9f374057a0f7aba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Les,

I am very well aware about diff= erent scopes of both drafts. Actually I read them all.=C2=A0

=
But just wanted to make sure your point about ISIS working fine = today with 1000s node networks is really a prove that flooding optimisation= is still *practically* needed/required.=C2=A0

Btw= ... Henk has a second proposal - a companion document to flooding over TCP= on flooding reduction too. Perhaps you missed it :)

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft= -hsmit-lsr-isis-dnfm/=C2=A0=C2=A0

Thx,
= R.

On Wed, Nov 7= , 2018 at 9:54 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

Robert =E2=80=93=

=C2=A0

The comment being discussed here is i= n regards to the potential benefits of altering IS-IS to use a different wa= y of flooding over an interface.

Whether we agree/disagree on this doe= s not have any bearing on the high amount of redundant flooding which occur= s in a highly meshed network =E2=80=93 which I think all of us agree is a problem worth addressing.

=C2=A0

The latter is addressed in a number o= f drafts =E2=80=93 including Henk/Gunter=E2=80=99s https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-dnfm/<= /a> .

=C2=A0

But this thread is about https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp/ .

=C2=A0

Please do not confuse the two.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:39 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: hhwsmit@x= s4all.nl; Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP

=C2=A0

Hi Les,

=C2=A0

> There are existing and successful deployments o= f an instance with thousands of=C2=A0

> neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network a= nd sub-second convergence is supported.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

While I completely agree with your above observation= (and as a matter of fact first person to tell me that was actually Henk ar= ound year 2000) may I ask what problem are we solving with vast majority of= the proposals in space of "IGP scaling" for data center deployments currently on the table ? Are we perfecting the= perfect ?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It sounds that what is really needed is a deployment= guide (perhaps in the form of informational RFC) documenting that use of I= SIS in 1000(s) node DC cluster is fine provided features X, Y, Z are enable= d.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Otherwise folks out there in the field no matter wha= t is done here will keep using BGP for huge 50 node DC clusters because RFC= 7938 says so.

=C2=A0

Cheers,
Robert.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 5:09 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsber= g) <ginsberg@cis= co.com> wrote:

Henk/Gunter -

Couple of points.

1)IS-IS PDUs are sent directly over layer 2 - whereas TCP (or other transpo= rt) are sent over Layer3.
This means we have a potential fate sharing issue where IIHs (which continu= e to be sent over Layer 2 in your proposal (as I understand it) may be succ= essfully exchanged but the transport session set up to send LSPs/SNPs may f= ail. This is the exact issue RFC 6213 has addressed.

What should happen if IIHs are being successfully exchanged, the neighbors = both indicate support for the extension, but the transport session fails to= come up or goes down?
Would you follow similar behavior to RFC 6213 i.e., bring the adjacency dow= n? If so, how would you determine when you can bring the adjacency up?

I appreciate you have indicated this as TBD in Section 7.6 of the draft, bu= t you also say in Section 7.5 that adjacency should NOT go down when transp= ort session fails - which implies we can have an ongoing condition where an= adjacency is up but
flooding cannot be done-=C2=A0 which is a pathological condition.

2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are rath= er dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base specification= by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding bursts on an inte= rface in support of fast convergence. There are existing and successful deployments of an instance with thousand= s of neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second convergen= ce is supported. So the statement that the existing protocol per interface = flooding is a blocking factor in highly meshed topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The more accurate characte= rization of the flooding problem in dense topologies is the amount of redun= dant flooding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of a new LSP) - which y= our proposal does nothing to address (I understand it was not intended to address this problem which you discus= s in a different draft).

My point here is that there are existing implementations which would get no= benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone writing a new = implementation may find it simpler to make use of a transport mechanism lik= e TCP - but I do not think there is compelling data that demonstrates that the scalability of an implementa= tion using your proposal is better than that of many existing implementatio= ns.

This then suggests that for existing implementations the main motivation to= support your proposal is to help other implementations which have not opti= mized their existing implementations. :-)
Comments?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 8:22 PM
> To: tony.li@tony.= li
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org=
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP
>
>
> Thanks, Tony.
>
> We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP sta= ck
> in it.
> That made it the obvious choice.
>
> Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's
> ability to use TCP for flooding.
> That TLV has several sub-TVLs.
> 1) the TCP port-number
> 2) an IPv4 address
> 3) and/or an IPv6 address
>
> We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates:
> 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use
> 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0or other identifier to use to connect over that pro= tocol.
>
> This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today.
> And add/replace it with other protocols in the future.
>
> henk.
>
>
>
> tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51:
> > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list:
> >
> > This is good work and I support it.
> >
> > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol<= br> > > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we= =E2=80=99re
> > at it.=C2=A0 In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwi= dth
> > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start iss= ues
> > by using QUIC.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--000000000000d9f374057a0f7aba-- From nobody Wed Nov 7 01:51:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51334128CF2 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 01:51:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qdsF1gAR23ey for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 01:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x936.google.com (mail-ua1-x936.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::936]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5337A128CB7 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 01:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x936.google.com with SMTP id d19so4340972uaq.11 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 01:51:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SdG5jwR1axYoQbiROf79NU4EbeTeIUJkWLT61lb3ItA=; b=fq1OPbyg6atP6AsgS1PcvqEtwZLsFIHM2vTcMihVnb5kUJALqpCtHokkhQ0No0q1Hb wYJ93+eTLhjJs0ecKMJXIwHIFpdJRAHUiWoicEaKtbXYKeec2X8G3gwpyUq6rFoI9nEI b502F7npm1B9OubEwIWSrt61qvc0fxWVacVClGz9ST8iBfhPRoFK2L3mt/GXLnaHYClA wxIaNsqcg0TarGyDKOWZlYkZ42GPAHo8JHlG5CdH0QpJYLfhZTuRzWk/bpYIeLotFo9V +4XxPSnhkAawWQFo3dnI/GydsOAv1OjsT7ECvROZ/Rt4Bok0G6lBEkn9vpAMBx1ZJZZJ +4Fw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SdG5jwR1axYoQbiROf79NU4EbeTeIUJkWLT61lb3ItA=; b=WJcla7PFSm510umtxPV2betSlbCjaCwiaTAF93ACXbpr+5lQB208LC3SV7gnZWtpLW Bh6Ta5oJJGCP0o7Zdc2aawZggWF1hamXKE+vFjmT7x6ma6rsWckCoLg5xKBRvR/mHYBg a7QeOjMrreQF3w6WS80t9K85slfjVbfzRG/+2VBoqwydTq30UCf+ngi6NmhHvdFZP1Tt D9IjLbwa+9SGC8VWpkfzhctzs93KMDvyP3EwRCAqCgOGX4GW6Uzyll0DNczWEnzZUaJp HgkChFaFdFwRbVDDQa+vF+5ch9mcLC3H7Y5TCNcEeNNFI2hqo6dzA/wYFdXFLX9cIDXU phxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLrx8LxFv7Wd9qKoz1eSdrr+8v2FBOcVkP97AuHWoceSmxqM0nK lEyrdI71SaiYyvYl07JSGzZw0nBJYl9aZ3yYID0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dtAQ5gjC3Wtn0qU4TP9UpXqsbzoyRwBNb7N2CV3jOnwa+6Zl7M0sraIEF3rb/xGv5PYVECxcypsVYl1hr5FEc= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:13d3:: with SMTP id n19mr305795uae.37.1541584267434; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 01:51:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <49f4a0ace8424a119d1f7b7d9eceba21@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <49f4a0ace8424a119d1f7b7d9eceba21@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> From: Uma Chunduri Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 16:50:52 +0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a6dd48057a100e63" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Comments on draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 09:51:11 -0000 --000000000000a6dd48057a100e63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Les, Thanks for your comments. > If we were to proceed with this draft at all, I therefore think we should limit the scope to merely explaining what the requirements for correct operation are using the various modes. Agree and this aspect is baked-in along with some common pitfalls. It also clears the terminology and nuances here w.r.t "Topology" and "Address Family". > I am not fully convinced we need an additional draft on this topic. But I am convinced that IETF should NOT be writing deployments guides. I would like to listen to other opinions too. But at least when operator commented otherwise in the LSR meeting on the mike and I got 2 emails with few suggestions and interest. Let me clarify a bit here. This is precisely laying out various options w.r.t IPv6 only and why this topic has been confusing for lot of folks (other than few experts, like you!). Would be glad to get your comments on the text where it is sounding objectionable to you or in general if you are seeking any improvements. Thx in advance for that. -- Uma C. On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:35 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Having now read the draft in its entirety... > > As per the discussion in the WG meeting today... > > I agree that MT and its relationship to address-families can be confusing. > I also agree that when deploying multiple address-family support the > decision to use/not-use MT can be confusing. > I also agree that now that IPv6 only deployments are becoming a reality > whether to use MTID #0 or MTID #2 can be confusing. > > Etc. > > The discussion in the WG seemed to focus on the benefits of writing a > deployment guide to both recommend desirable deployments configurations and > alert folks to the problems they are likely to see if they are not careful > in ensuring their topology usage matches their actual address-family > support. > > It is often the case that vendors write configuration/deployment guides to > provide guidance to their customers as to how to configure a feature. In > doing so, a vendor is free to express their biases as to what they consider > a preferred strategy. > If the IETF were to do the same thing, there is a higher bar - since any > IETF document represents a consensus of the WG in which it was written. > There is more than one way to configure address-family support and each of > us may have our biases as to which of the multiple strategies is preferred. > Consensus on this is not required nor is it necessarily easy to achieve. > > I am therefore NOT eager to have the IETF become the home of "feature > deployment guides". > > If we were to proceed with this draft at all, I therefore think we should > limit the scope to merely explaining what the requirements for correct > operation are using the various modes. > I emphasize again that RFC 1195 speaks quite directly to the limitations > of using a single topology to support multiple "address-families". (The > discussion there is CLNS/IP oriented - but the issues are the same as > IPv4/IPv6.) > I am not fully convinced we need an additional draft on this topic. But I > am convinced that IETF should NOT be writing deployments guides. > > Les > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000a6dd48057a100e63 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Les,

Thanks for your comments.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > If we were to proceed with this draft at all, I therefore think we should l= imit the scope to merely explaining what the requirements for correct opera= tion are using the various modes.=C2=A0

Agree and = this aspect is baked-in along with some common pitfalls. It also clears the= terminology and nuances here w.r.t "Topology" and "Address = Family".

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I am not fully convinced we need an additional draft on this topic. But I a= m convinced that IETF should NOT be writing deployments guides.
<= br>
I would like to listen to other opinions too. But at least wh= en operator commented otherwise in the LSR meeting on the mike and I got 2 = emails with few suggestions and interest.

Let me c= larify a bit here. This is precisely laying out various options w.r.t IPv6 = only and why this topic has been confusing for lot of=C2=A0 folks (other th= an few experts, like you!).=C2=A0
Would be glad to get your comme= nts on the text where it is sounding objectionable to you or in general if = you are seeking any improvements. Thx in advance for that.

--
Uma C.



On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:35 P= M Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsber= g@cisco.com> wrote:
Having n= ow read the draft in its entirety...

As per the discussion in the WG meeting today...

I agree that MT and its relationship to address-families can be confusing.<= br> I also agree that when deploying multiple address-family support the decisi= on to use/not-use MT can be confusing.
I also agree that now that IPv6 only deployments are becoming a reality whe= ther to use MTID #0 or MTID #2 can be confusing.

Etc.

The discussion in the WG seemed to focus on the benefits of writing a deplo= yment guide to both recommend desirable deployments configurations and aler= t folks to the problems they are likely to see if they are not careful in e= nsuring their topology usage matches their actual address-family support.
It is often the case that vendors write configuration/deployment guides to = provide guidance to their customers as to how to configure a feature. In do= ing so, a vendor is free to express their biases as to what they consider a= preferred strategy.
If the IETF were to do the same thing, there is a higher bar - since any IE= TF document represents a consensus of the WG in which it was written.
There is more than one way to configure address-family support and each of = us may have our biases as to which of the multiple strategies is preferred.= Consensus on this is not required nor is it necessarily easy to achieve.
I am therefore NOT eager to have the IETF become the home of "feature = deployment guides".

If we were to proceed with this draft at all, I therefore think we should l= imit the scope to merely explaining what the requirements for correct opera= tion are using the various modes.
I emphasize again that RFC 1195 speaks quite directly to the limitations of= using a single topology to support multiple "address-families". = (The discussion there is CLNS/IP oriented - but the issues are the same as = IPv4/IPv6.)
I am not fully convinced we need an additional draft on this topic. But I a= m convinced that IETF should NOT be writing deployments guides.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les

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--000000000000a6dd48057a100e63-- From nobody Wed Nov 7 05:26:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5C712DD85 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 05:26:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MUmTZjvA0Ums for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 05:26:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B206712D4EA for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 05:26:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:208]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id KNqOgiCit0ZZEKNqOgNQke; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:26:07 +0100 Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.163.74.169]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:26:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:26:04 +0100 From: Henk Smit To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: tony.li@tony.li, lsr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHKQfy5+TCBQQdrRuC5MOJmMBkMUtW2GAvnwf2z9MKirEIr9VqASxlxC6/SnCQi4mR5CuNDDvCs5ifmPgLSqaDDbdDSBvnlPG+bQTIU9zajSoXjdcckR NqkrLGrKoKsZKlG19P4EhK/b4QJuuQNI82+cMz2e5GAW1tboLTWVcDFCLB+ebQr6ceFW/xPCpUKpGEpHAg2VBfmzguSLBCphVPvGVtHMQjRb/4YC7hoSBKcy /2Ik/JUXPm7kUvmwMBU9GQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 13:26:14 -0000 Hi Les, Comments inline. Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) schreef op 2018-11-07 05:09: > 1)IS-IS PDUs are sent directly over layer 2 - whereas TCP (or other > transport) are sent over Layer3. > This means we have a potential fate sharing issue where IIHs (which > continue to be sent over Layer 2 in your proposal (as I understand it) > may be successfully exchanged but the transport session set up to send > LSPs/SNPs may fail. This is the exact issue RFC 6213 has addressed. The problem that RFC6213 tries to solve is a case where one of the neighbors is thinking that the other does not support BFD. And thus the lack of BFD is not used as an indication that something is wrong. Right ? When using TCP, both neighbors are aware that they want/need to use TCP. Because both advertise the capability in a TVL in the IIH. So this problem won't occur. The solution of RFC 6213 is to include a new BFD-TLV in the IIHs. Well, our proposal also includes a TLV in the IIH. Same solution. Another thing that might be noteworthy is that we propose to use ISIS-Flooding-over-TCP only on p2p interfaces. Because we believe that the majority of large IS-IS networks (in data-centers at least) will configure all their ethernet-interfaces to be p2p. The problem-description in section 2 in RFC6213 seems to indicate a situation with 3 routers (A, B and C) connected via one interface. Correct ? So that's a multi-point interface. If we would want to do Flooding-over-TCP on multi-point interfaces, we will need a much more complex algorithm (involving the DIS, and potentially a backup DIS too). Not worth it, imho. The benefits of this proposal is that a) it's simple, and b) it's using existing technology (TCP). > What should happen if IIHs are being successfully exchanged, the > neighbors both indicate support for the extension, but the transport > session fails to come up or goes down? > Would you follow similar behavior to RFC 6213 i.e., bring the > adjacency down? If so, how would you determine when you can bring the > adjacency up? That is a good question. > I appreciate you have indicated this as TBD in Section 7.6 of the > draft, but you also say in Section 7.5 that adjacency should NOT go > down when transport session fails - which implies we can have an > ongoing condition where an adjacency is up but > flooding cannot be done- which is a pathological condition. My gut feeling says we should not tear down the adjacency. What if two routers can exchange IIHs and do proper flooding of LSPs. But they can not exchange IP packets ? This could happen. IS-IS does not have a way to deal with this. IS-IS would keep advertising the link to the rest of the network. And blackhole traffic. But people have never complained about this risk before. Why ? My guess is that implementations are good enough that we know ip-forwarding almost works. It is my opinion that we can be just as sure that TCP between two directly connected routers will work just as good. If not, it's probably a bug. Just as likely that ip-forwarding won't work between the same two routers. The reason I propose to not tear down the adjacency is that it makes other things much more complex. The state of the TCP connection itself would introduce new state that makes it harder to do things like non-stop-forwarding, graceful restart, process restarts, fail-over to a hot-standby 2nd control-plane, etc. > 2)Your statements regarding existing flooding limitations of IS-IS are > rather dated. Many years ago implementations varied from the base > specification by allowing much faster flooding and contiguous flooding > bursts on an interface in support of fast convergence. There are > existing and successful deployments of an instance with thousands of > neighbors and thousands of nodes in a network and sub-second > convergence is supported. So the statement that the existing protocol > per interface flooding is a blocking factor in highly meshed > topologies is not (IMO) accurate. The more accurate characterization > of the flooding problem in dense topologies is the amount of redundant > flooding (i.e., a node may receive many copies of a new LSP) - which > your proposal does nothing to address (I understand it was not > intended to address this problem which you discuss in a different > draft). I worked on IS-IS in the nineties. Yes, my knowledge is outdated. However, I've not seen any RFC or draft or documents that indicate how to do better flooding. That means implementors have to reinvent the wheel. Packet-pacing, high-bandwidth, back-pressure, etc will steer implementations towards proprietary solutions that will resemble things that TCP does. If so, why not use TCP ? Or another existing transport protocol that does even better ? We're trying to solve flooding issues. In very dense networks. And in networks with many routers. The requirements document that I read earlier this year mentions 10k routers. Tony Li suggested last month to me that flooding algorithms should be able to deal with situations where single routers have 1k adjacencies. If we want to improve the protocol, I think we should also improve the situation where we need to flood 10k LSPs over a single adjacency. That's the problem we try to solve here. > My point here is that there are existing implementations which would > get no benefit from your proposal. It might be argued that someone > writing a new implementation may find it simpler to make use of a > transport mechanism like TCP - but I do not think there is compelling > data that demonstrates that the scalability of an implementation using > your proposal is better than that of many existing implementations. When I worked at cisco in the nineties, that IS-IS implementation could deal with 250 routers in a double full mesh. That's 500 adjacencies per router. Those routers were running 100MHz and 200MHz mips cpus. Some were even cisco 7000s with 68040 cpus. That worked. With my outdated knowledge, I can not understand who a datacenter fabric where routers have 64 or 128 adjacencies could be a problem. Not with a proper implementation. But we're trying to fix that too. > This then suggests that for existing implementations the main > motivation to support your proposal is to help other implementations > which have not optimized their existing implementations. :-) > Comments? Proper IS-IS implementations should split up in 3 threads at least. One thread for maintaining adjacencies, one for doing flooding and one for doing SPFs (and route-installs). That way an SPF doesn't hold up flooding. And heavy flooding or long SPFs don't break adjacencies. How many implementations in the field do that ? Heck, I've even seen today's implementations that do not split off adjacency-maintenance as a separate process or thread. Anyway, the question is: if you want to have 10k LSPs in your flooding domain, do we depend on custom improvements, or do we want something that's documented ? One of the things that inspired me to do this proposal was LSVR. LSVR uses BGP-LS to transport LSPs. Why ? The word on the street is that "BGP scales so much better". Why does BGP scale so good ? Imho there is one main reason: BGP uses TCP for transport. Now I don't like LSVR (and I don't like BGP-LS). Because LSVR seems to re-invent the wheel, with no real improvements over IS-IS, except for the fact that it uses BGP which uses TCP. If that's the main benefit of LSVR, then why not just use TCP and be done with it ? BTW, there is another reason for our proposal. With the incoming drafts about flooding-topology-reduction, there is a new problem. All these proposals have situations where non-flooding adjacencies suddenly change to flooding adjacencies. When that happens, the LSDBs need to be synchronized again. To do that, all of them propose "just send a CSNP and be done with it". Well, the more LSPs, the more CNSPs that need to be sent. With 10k LSPs that's 110 CSNPs. CSNPs are not reliable. This re-synchronization happens when there is churn in the IGP. Are we sure CSNPs aren't dropped somewhere ? Can we start sending LSPs because we know the neighbor has sent all its CSNPs yet ? With reliable transport for LSPs and SNPs these worst-case scenarios will improve. Apologies for the long text. I hope it explains our goals and proposal a bit more. henk. > > Les > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lsr On Behalf Of Henk Smit >> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 8:22 PM >> To: tony.li@tony.li >> Cc: lsr@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP >> >> >> Thanks, Tony. >> >> We picked TCP because every router on the planet already has a TCP >> stack >> in it. >> That made it the obvious choice. >> >> Our draft described a TVL in the IIHs to indicate a router's >> ability to use TCP for flooding. >> That TLV has several sub-TVLs. >> 1) the TCP port-number >> 2) an IPv4 address >> 3) and/or an IPv6 address >> >> We can change the first sub-TVL so that it indicates: >> 1) 1 or 2 bytes indicating what protocol to use >> 2) the remainder of the sub-TLV is an indicator what port-number >> or other identifier to use to connect over that protocol. >> >> This way we can start improving IS-IS with TCP today. >> And add/replace it with other protocols in the future. >> >> henk. >> >> >> >> tony.li@tony.li schreef op 2018-11-06 04:51: >> > Per the WG meeting, discussing on the list: >> > >> > This is good work and I support it. >> > >> > I would remind folks that TCP is NOT the only transport protocol >> > available and that perhaps we should be considering QUIC while we’re >> > at it. In particular, flooding is a (relatively) low bandwidth >> > operation in the modern network and we could avoid slow-start issues >> > by using QUIC. >> > >> > Tony >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Lsr mailing list >> > Lsr@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Wed Nov 7 06:06:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECAD130DC5 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 06:06:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id obkeoho1IsFQ for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 06:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC93C130DC4 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 06:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:208]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id KOTlgiZ9U0ZZEKOTlgNdCJ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 15:06:46 +0100 Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.163.74.169]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 15:06:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 15:06:45 +0100 From: Henk Smit To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: tony.li@tony.li, lsr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20181106042056.GA29303@pfrc.org> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <20181106042056.GA29303@pfrc.org> Message-ID: <864cdf79a4921a1e6753d848f313efa5@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfGY9Ia9+g3XQw6IqgNYDBIrIZLg7VcjZBdA1K9FzSQQdBaFTDXjnZGBHvpt4sD8FP24xRj2/yGDTQAjODET2pArIOegwoYdiXT/AvrAfssBzb999YdUe NetXYasxYZgfgLKTik/5zmvVxNUjTDbg0/P3rtyeMQGOja+wqIvaEPbCQYprcAbnnDPx3CyPjpgMeg9gb/AFenB6QDIIw/OqI/xK/7/4lbxXeR0h/gHOghwJ CF/ISMhXF+4UPmc5inuq1Q== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:06:58 -0000 Hi Jeff, Jeffrey Haas wrote on 2018-11-06 05:20: > I'm ambivalent of the transport, but agree that TCP shouldn't be the > default > answer. I picked TCP because every router has a working TCP implementation. And TCP is good enough for BGP. And thus also considered good enough for LSVR. If that's the case, I'd assume it is good enough for IS-IS as well. It's easy to adjust our draft so that new transports can be introduced over time. We can do TCP now. Add Quic later. And add other, new, better transports later, when they become available. I don't know much about Quic. But it seems the protocol and details are not 100% stable yet. Maybe soon. So maybe we can do TCP now, and Quic later ? Also, Quic might be easy to implement for router OSes that run on top of Unix. But for OSes that use QNS, vxWorks, or something proprietary, Quic might be more work. (It's up to others to decide if that's important or not. I have no opinion on this matter myself). > My concerns that I tried raising via jabber summarize roughly as > follows: > - TCP is prone to interesting backpressure issues, typically as a > result of > packet loss or slow receivers. If a receiver is slow, that's the same situation as when IS-IS on the neighbor is slow. Retransmissions happen. Retransmissions with 10589 flooding are fixed time (5 seconds). (I guess some modern implementations do something smarter). So convergence would have been impacted with native flooding too. Note that our proposal only does TCP over directly connected routers. I'm sorry to say I have little experience with behaviour of BGP in real networks. Where did you observe these backpressure issues ? EBGP or iBGP ? I expect to see more problems with iBGP, because iBGP goes over multiple hops, which can cause all kinds of issues. EBGP is mostly over directly connected interfaces. I expect TCP to behave much nicer There. TCP behaviour of IS-IS flooding would resemble eBGP more than iBGP. At least, that is my expectation. Note. If you would do flooding over a tunnel, flooding over TCP might be beneficial too. Because of tunnel overhead (e.g. GRE-headers) tunnels usually have a smaller MTU. Therefor all max-sized LSPs will need to be fragmented when sent over the tunnel. This is also (especially) true for CSNPs. For packet-based tunneling-protocols, that means 2 packets for each max-sized LSP or CSNP. When using TCP, the LSPs get spread out over multiple segments, which should make reassembly a bit easier/cheaper. > - TCP timers can react poorly in some environments where you may want > time > sensitive things. This includes something as long as 3 second BGP > hold > timers. When you do flooding-over-tcp, then you don't need to send PSNPs (acks) or do retransmission of LSPs. So you don't need timers for those. Things become less time-sensitive (at the cost of potentially slower flooding). > - IGPs have a lot of interesting timer hacks to try to ensure that a > given > domain has a consistent database prior to running an SPF. In the > face of > "stuck" flooding due to backpressure or other things, some of these > may need > to be revisited. Again, it is my expectation that in case of problems with TCP, that same situation would have been worse with native ISIS flooding. Also note that in BGP, every update packet over every peering has significance. If one gets delayed, it slow down overall convergence. In ISIS flooding, a router will receive multiple copies of the same LSP. So if one TCP-connection is slow, the router might still receive the same LSPs over other paths. And the impact on overall convergence is likely to be less. Of course, this implies that routers flood over more than 1 or 2 interfaces. If we do one of the flooding-reduction proposals, I hope we'll end up with a situation where we have 3 or 4 redundant flooding topologies, so that routers will still receive LSPs quickly over other topologies when the primary topology has problems. > It's been over a year since I looked at QUIC. I agree with Tony that a > number of the properties it had on my last read are desirable. I'd > suggest > that its behavior (especially timers) in the event of packet loss > should be > given a look at based on the comments above. One other benefit of doing flooding over TCP is that part of the flooding administration is now outsourced to TCP. And TCP usually runs in another thread of process, inside or outside the kernel. This means that we'll automatically get a light form of multi-threading. Less work for the IS-IS process/threads. Quic runs in user-space. I don't know if that means it is a library, and functions run in the user's thread/process. Or whether Quic is a separate process/thread. If Quic runs in IS-IS's thread, it means we lose a cheap form performance improvements because of multi-threading. henk. 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"tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQQhdtsLtzGL0aulBBpslE59KVCif6AgAEjL2CAAQc9AP//vlGA Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 16:06:18 +0000 Message-ID: <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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DQo+ID4+IExzciBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPj4gTHNyQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHNyDQo= From nobody Wed Nov 7 11:57:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35CEA130DCB for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:57:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXtokHVEPLno for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from slice.pfrc.org (slice.pfrc.org [67.207.130.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4BE130DCA for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 11:56:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by slice.pfrc.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4B7461E4FB; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:56:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:56:18 -0500 From: Jeffrey Haas To: Henk Smit Cc: lsr@ietf.org, tony.li@tony.li Message-ID: <20181107195617.GD19684@pfrc.org> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <20181106042056.GA29303@pfrc.org> <864cdf79a4921a1e6753d848f313efa5@xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <864cdf79a4921a1e6753d848f313efa5@xs4all.nl> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:57:00 -0000 Henk, On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 03:06:45PM +0100, Henk Smit wrote: > Jeffrey Haas wrote on 2018-11-06 05:20: > > >I'm ambivalent of the transport, but agree that TCP shouldn't be > >the default > >answer. > > I picked TCP because every router has a working TCP implementation. Having just done a history lesson on BGP for NLNOG, it's sort of fun to see this. :-) > >My concerns that I tried raising via jabber summarize roughly as > >follows: > >- TCP is prone to interesting backpressure issues, typically as a > >result of > > packet loss or slow receivers. > > If a receiver is slow, that's the same situation as when IS-IS on the > neighbor is slow. Retransmissions happen. Retransmissions with 10589 > flooding are fixed time (5 seconds). (I guess some modern > implementations > do something smarter). So convergence would have been impacted with > native flooding too. I guess my question to those who live in IGP land is how often is this a problem? In the case of an IGP, the backpressure means you have databases that are out of sync and end up with bad forwarding. > Note that our proposal only does TCP over directly connected routers. > I'm sorry to say I have little experience with behaviour of BGP in > real networks. Where did you observe these backpressure issues ? EBGP > or iBGP ? Both iBGP and eBGP. The two general issues are slow receivers (scale) or responses to dropped packets. The general experiment I recommend to people trying to do this sort of thing is take your TCP stream of choice, pace it according to your transmission needs, and then drop 5-30% of the packets. Observe what happens. TCP recovers fine. But the hiccups can do bad things when timeliness is expected. For example, 3 second hold times for aggressive BGP peering may time out. I guess I'd restate my concern as "for this application, ensure that you're okay with the results of stalled trasnmission". Effectively, see the answer to the question I asked above about native behaviors. > Also note that in BGP, every update packet over every peering has > significance. > If one gets delayed, it slow down overall convergence. This is true. It's usually survivable due to hop-by-hop forwarding in BGP's case, but it can still do bad things. > In ISIS > flooding, a router > will receive multiple copies of the same LSP. So if one > TCP-connection is slow, > the router might still receive the same LSPs over other paths. And > the impact > on overall convergence is likely to be less. This, I think, is a better point addressing my concerns. Thanks. > Of course, this implies that routers flood over more than 1 or 2 > interfaces. If > we do one of the flooding-reduction proposals, I hope we'll end up > with a situation > where we have 3 or 4 redundant flooding topologies, so that routers > will still > receive LSPs quickly over other topologies when the primary topology > has problems. :-) -- Jeff From nobody Wed Nov 7 13:35:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413D3124BE5 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jJg69mrI9n6 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57B0A12F1AB for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 13:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:205]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id KVTvgArrww2L8KVTvgi37s; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 22:35:29 +0100 Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.163.74.169]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 22:35:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 22:35:23 +0100 From: Henk Smit To: Jeffrey Haas Cc: lsr@ietf.org, tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <20181107195617.GD19684@pfrc.org> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <20181106042056.GA29303@pfrc.org> <864cdf79a4921a1e6753d848f313efa5@xs4all.nl> <20181107195617.GD19684@pfrc.org> Message-ID: <02bcf651a3a8c5db50fde4227663f3f0@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfBxN6n3CHm7T9lmjHhUCa2IlPT0WjFRcVVQhGrSdmtrZhUg2ZQHRcBt5aAcI5aRRm8dDzaPmZbVYiDcI2kNCcl/1D2LyhPTluyDnQe+e0Kts8xZP8tZE LnJ6F7SBYRgKizkDvPCvumabF6F/kGoUp+EfSUE2juzbYmwHoTbu26OvM1XZGNodPJWCby+IRQKqnGR38ld28mYWr/ENWvhXsgX0E0eRE1tf6HzW9lfdn7vr R/ejxeJ8d0wgjgvwEo0wsA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 21:35:34 -0000 Jeffrey Haas wrote 2018-11-07 20:56: > I guess my question to those who live in IGP land is how often is this > a > problem? In the case of an IGP, the backpressure means you have > databases > that are out of sync and end up with bad forwarding. As discussed below, if you have multiple flooding paths, and not all of them are congested or throttled, when at least one copy of the LSP makes it across, convergence will be fast. > Both iBGP and eBGP. The two general issues are slow receivers (scale) > or > responses to dropped packets. Slow receivers are a problem for native flooding too. Although I suspect you mean: after congestion problems, and the situation improves, native flooding will recover quickly, while TCP might intentionally keep things slow for a longer period of time. Correct ? Yes, that is an issue. > The general experiment I recommend to people trying to do this sort of > thing > is take your TCP stream of choice, pace it according to your > transmission > needs, and then drop 5-30% of the packets. Observe what happens. Don't we have DSCP for this ? And remember, the TCP connection will (almost) always be between two directly connected endpoints. > TCP recovers fine. But the hiccups can do bad things when timeliness > is > expected. For example, 3 second hold times for aggressive BGP peering > may > time out. Our proposal is to do only flooding over TCP. Adjacency management is still done based on native IIHs (and BFD). Even if TCP stalls the flooding, the adjacency should stay up. With flooding over multiple paths, it should not be a fatal event. > I guess I'd restate my concern as "for this application, ensure that > you're > okay with the results of stalled trasnmission". Effectively, see the > answer > to the question I asked above about native behaviors. [Flooding happens over multiple paths. As long as one path is quick, convergence will be quick too]. > This, I think, is a better point addressing my concerns. Thanks. I expect there will be more issues that need to be addressed. E.g. an old rule of thumb is: don't generate a routing update (packet) unless you are pretty sure you can send it right away, and the receiver can receive it. Otherwise a lot of the actual communication might be stale information. I'm not sure if people find this rule of thumb still relevant these days. (I know people who do not). With an abundance of cpu-cores, memory and bandwidth, it seems many problems of the past are not visible anymore. Unless you start pushing beyond what most people do. But if you do care, it is advisable to keep your TCP window-sizes small. Maybe at the default 16KB, maybe even 8KB or 4KB. With a window-size of 4KB you might be able to still send a dozen average-size LSPs, and those might get stuck/stale in TCP. But I think that's a good trade-off to get syncing of large LSDBs. As long as you don't set the window-size to 64KB or larger. And maybe even then, stale LSPs might be less of a problem than old-timers think. henk. From nobody Wed Nov 7 14:21:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C209A129C6A for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:21:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k4NORYguXfj5 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52F1B124BE5 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:205]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id KWCZgBGSJw2L8KWCZgi7xa; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:21:31 +0100 Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.163.74.169]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:21:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 23:21:31 +0100 From: Henk Smit To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: tony.li@tony.li, lsr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFtFO1ZwLAMaM+RdwAY4UK6LSka6jmEPtsewdr+/N46tPlQY50yFVACtVI0sH8WlVYXck0ijhcBWKqEHR8Udc1VpAfAO6tTSjJchFnzIw9BVc+0yavBe 317tU4/eX4Z+MFqPIN9Sp2JroYPWbToe6C4hbXrel8KPmF38puDNTHGOUbPpt4RtA3o7oCpgFC7iCsqLIT0xSwxr4/bBmOMD5eW0ZM9cZspRb0bjxmuqsUbs Ftw8sUYDd4uwDTx/v7rC5Q== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 22:21:41 -0000 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote 2018-11-07 17:06: >> The problem that RFC6213 tries to solve is a case where one of the >> neighbors is thinking that the other does not support BFD. And thus >> the lack of BFD is not used as an indication that something is wrong. >> Right ? >> > [Les:] This is not correct. > The key paragraph is in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6213#section-2 > > " The problem with this solution is that it assumes that the > transmission and receipt of IS-IS Hellos (IIHs) shares fate with > forwarded data packets. This is not a fair assumption to make given > that the primary use of BFD is to protect IPv4 (and IPv6) > forwarding, > and IS-IS does not utilize IPv4 or IPv6 for sending or receiving its > hellos." > > We have seen cases where IPv4/IPv6 data packet delivery has been > compromised - but IS-IS PDU delivery was unaffected. This led to the > following behavior: > > 1)IS-IS exchanges hellos and bring adjacency up. Routes using the link > are installed > 2)BFD session is started and comes up > 3)After a time some problem occurs which only impact IP traffic - BFD > session goes down. > 4)IS-IS adjacency is brought down due to BFD session down, but IS-IS > continues to send hellos. If they are successfully exchanged then > IS-IS adjacency is almost immediately restored and we resume > installing IP routes using the link even though BFD session never > comes up. Data traffic gets dropped. Thanks for the explanation. But that is kinda what I wanted to say. BFD is failing (because the IP-path is failing), and IS-IS doesn't realize this, because it thinks that BFD isn't being used (because "BFD session never comes up". > The extensions in RFC 6213 allow IS-IS to know when both sides support > BFD, which means the sequence changes to: > > 1)IS-IS exchanges hellos - but adjacency remains in INIT state. > 2)BFD session is initiated - IS-IS adjacency remains in INIT state > until BFD session comes up. > > Thus IS-IS never installs routes using the link unless we know IP > traffic can be successfully delivered. > We can then use BFD both as a requirement to bring the adjacency up > AND as fast failure detection. OK. What do you suggest we do to fix this failure case if we do flooding over TCP ? - We could make BFD mandatory when flooding over TCP ? If the IP-path is broken, TCP will fail, but BFD will also fail ? - We bring the adjacency to UP state, but we don't include it in our own LSP immediately. Only after the TCP session has been established, we advertise the new adjacency in our LSP. Would that be enough ? It would stop routes from being calculated over the new adjacency. Maybe wait until the TCP connection has been set up, and a pair of IIHs has been exchanged over it ? (So authentication and other stuff can be verified for the TCP session). Or maybe even wait until IIHs have been sent, and then full sets of CSNPs are exchanged in both directions ? That last suggestion starts approaching the way OSPF does this. If I recall correctly, OSPF will only include adjacencies in its type-1 LSA after DDs have been exchanged, and the full LDSB has been synchronized. Would you want IS-IS to do the same ? - If the TCP session breaks, do you want to stop including the adjacency in the LSP ? This will make things like NSF, process restart and control plane failover much harder. >> What if two routers can exchange IIHs and do proper flooding of >> LSPs. But they can not exchange IP packets ? This could happen. >> IS-IS does not have a way to deal with this. > > [Les:] RFC 6213 was written precisely to address this case - and works > very well. The fact that BFD is working does not mean it is 100% sure that aal IP traffic will work. Failures might depend on protocol number, portnumbers, packetsize, etc. I agree that it is likely that if BFD works, all of IP will work. But it's no guarantee. Likewise we have to decide how paranoia we want to be that if IIHs are exchanged, how sure are we that TCP can exchange LSPs as well ? Maybe a good compromise would be: 1) don't advertise the adjacency in your LSPs until the TCP flooding connection has been established. (And maybe IIHs/CSNPs are exchanged). 2) after connection is fully up (IIHs and flooding works), use longer time-outs to determine whether TCP is still working. 3) when the other side closes a TCP connection (by FIN or RST), don't stop advertising the adjacency in your LSP immediately. In stead, for the next 10 seconds or so, try to re-establish the TCP connection first. If re-establishment doesn't work, then the router can stop including the adjacency in its LSP. This would prevent routers advertising new adjacencies that have a problem with TCP. But if it works, and suddenly stops working, convergence is slower (10 seconds or so). But the protocol has the ability to re-establish the TCP session, to make it more flexible. Would that be acceptable ? > [Les:] Actually they have. :-) That's why we wrote RFC 6213 - because > the problem has been seen in the field. I was talking about a router forwarding traffic. BFD between router A and router B could work, but B (for some reason) doesn't forward traffic. That was my extreme example to show that BFD doesn't protect all weird failure scenarios possible. The question is: how paranoia does a protocol want to be ? > [Les:] I appreciate your concerns - and it is true that "most of the > time" if we cannot receive IP traffic we likely cannot receive IS-IS > PDUs . But actual field experience has shown this is not always the > case - and when it is not the lack of recognition of the failed state > has major impacts. > > I don't think you can ignore this case just because it will happen > infrequently. We got BFD to protect against that. But if I understand correctly, you propose that if the TCP session doesn't come up, or get torn down later, we also bring down the adjacency, even when IIHs are still exchanged. That's reasonable, of course. Even if it makes things slightly more complicated. > [Les:] I am not suggesting that this aspect of scaling can be ignored. > But I am saying implementations have successfully addressed this with > "smarter implementations" and done so w/o requiring protocol > extensions. I personally agree with this position. Vendors should be able to distinguish themselves from the competition. But people working for operators have a different view. When this draft got published, we got private email from an operator addressing a number of issues (mainly when using unnumbered interfaces). His point was: he wanted to make sure that all corner-cases are handled identically by all vendors. Or at least in an inter-operable way. Therefor he wanted every little detail of implementation explicitly mentioned. I guess seeing your backbone go down because of vendor-specific enhancements (or lack thereof) will give you a different view on the matter. So I think that if vendors do things that are noticable on the wire, even if they should be compatible with standard behaviour, those things should be documented at least. Therefor I thought: "if all vendors are gonna implement their own pacing and their own reliability and their own high throughput, why not all use the same well-known transport protocol". Hence our proposal. > [Les:] I think the details of the "smart implementations" have not > been formally documented because they did not require protocol > extensions (i.e., they are interoperable w implementations which do > not have equal smarts) and they are largely seen as the value add > resulting from significant development/test efforts. Why would I want > to give that knowledge away for free when I might use it to gain a > competitive advantage? Router vendors do not. Operators probably do want everything written down. For themselves and to ensure inter-operability. > Perhaps it is time to revisit that and consider writing some sort of > BCP document - but that is a separate discussion. If the people who want this knowledge shared, can find someone who can has that knowledge, and who wants to write it down, they should go ahead. :) The thing that surprises me a little that a lot of these protocol enhancements (or even brand new protocols) would not be necessary if all implementations were perfect. It seems that in some cases we try to improve networks not by improving equipment, but by trying just a slightly different way to do things. Again, if people think that LSVR is a good idea, then how can they think that ISIS flooding over TCP is not a good idea ? This is the base idea for our proposal. A quick look at the LSVR draft show people from Cisco, Nokia (and Arrcus). (I'm not sure what Juniper or Arista or other vendors think about using BGP-LS). > [Les:] I do not advocate "just send an CSNP and be done with it" for > the very reasons you mention. > You will see that > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-01#section-6.7.2 > specifies that normal LSPDB synchronization occurs on adjacency > bringup. That test mentioned enabling (and thus also disabling) flooding over specific adjacencies. When you (re-)enable flooding over an adjacency, you need to do the synchronization over again. So you need to exchange CSNPs and transmit any missing LSPs. That's what I meant by writing "and be done with it". It's not a complex idea. But when CSNPs get dropped, synchronization becomes more expensive (because you transmit LSPs which might not have been necessary). I hope using TCP will make synchronization in this case more efficient. henk. From nobody Wed Nov 7 14:41:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6812129C6A for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:41:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sb6fZUmZ2w97 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:41:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBBAD1271FF for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 14:41:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id 189so23381807qkj.8 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:41:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Q/ZXvSEzVgXBafEHWcVpCW7DVieBXxkUNPXauZ6PRiA=; b=Yy6DMjisFGX+l2imlH0FZY8qq4BJFNPp0FqlI8R4/vUsbnHuTHbQkFTvpfgZquSWNo coQRC3w/6RRh/opLDv4cSslZ8zhXfsVsRO44yFA5pcuOzLDwUlNFMXcNvFXtHizyCnxt O9SwKhUG64rJRrZHsHrSuKsumN8S3Ls2oV5d0PRqHlMtYnChnHDHqJY5NtUQSdT/jTfU fLbF7xQF0rU0dCl63hw8qegdP1xeatCg/EwpjHAYMi80YtFDll7Q7Hsq+zYpPISSEb08 S7WRquJkry/9nTmxNIhn2+2fFhy8uLWSy7evMZxxBG4+GpfK/03/l6mnGVvrTUkU19hd VhpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Q/ZXvSEzVgXBafEHWcVpCW7DVieBXxkUNPXauZ6PRiA=; b=dYcMhy6G4rSvMP1w2ffwzKlzj6Fn9wsah0QH3k5JUgWSOcRDfv3mmaaZwkW8cF/0EW WbFXroJ4FU7w1WwkWEiy8CdpZyUiH5KHifQFXGUfR48j7MXOGFmjgNvmV25/rx/eXYVx TmZg2FHzeVw0usPQldwnJ7A299IdEdByvB71zBloQgXvA8Fb4uwRWhrB/CJnsIRMaHGe HQYcMm5HO6E1+fNrecGBkCfcCPCCpa2GA4sx7itZOKJjR/4YiNh5KGUzgYT1LKyignn/ bTLicEnj8qpSS6wya3WGbj/DhBBpCMINaqBUs2bjI+bW71nYQgMc9tQcmE/sVCtqccnB FlrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gL+6FfQO8MSH1HzE9d9wmMtmoUfUGNYFgLblhhoT9X9ZKGgeN7w JUg14a+9TrCST6vEfNQ3fQyJN3mckus3ZuPbB5C7TQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d7Upt8SNfcffMJuzv9CQuvy3C3kWQh341sG7cy8Hn+K+34t5QHomHii4J+dwQEK1fuwCj87tavA4cw4QyaZN8= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7644:: with SMTP id i4mr2129178qtr.293.1541630493960; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 14:41:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 23:41:23 +0100 Message-ID: To: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org, Tony Li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f7c2f5057a1ad19b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2018 22:41:37 -0000 --000000000000f7c2f5057a1ad19b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Henk, > - We could make BFD mandatory when flooding over TCP ? I don't think this would be a good idea. See especially for p2p fiber links loss of light is a much faster and better trigger/indicator that your link or adjacent router is down. Using BFD there which in most cases operates in a distributed mode on the line cards and tells you nothing about LC to RP path, or RP liveness IMO does not make much sense in such designs. Of course when your "link" is still p2p but is an emulated one over someone else IP network this is different story, but I don't think this is most common deployment model in data center's fabric. Thx, R. --000000000000f7c2f5057a1ad19b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Henk,

> - We could make BFD= mandatory when flooding over TCP ?=C2=A0=C2=A0

I don't think this would be a good idea.=C2=A0
See especially for p2p fiber links loss of light is a much fas= ter and better trigger/indicator that your link or adjacent router is down.= =C2=A0

Using BFD there which in most cases operate= s in a distributed mode on the line cards and tells you nothing about LC to= RP path, or RP liveness IMO does not make much sense in such designs.=C2= =A0

Of course when your "link" is still = p2p but is an emulated one over someone else IP network this is different s= tory, but I don't think this is most common deployment model in data ce= nter's fabric.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.
=C2=A0
--000000000000f7c2f5057a1ad19b-- From nobody Wed Nov 7 16:36:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C37A1286E7 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 16:36:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7B4SLS1YHf7O for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 16:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93648124D68 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 16:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id e4so23797061qkh.6 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 16:36:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=j+S/Iyccn7RAq8IFskr8J312ENUIP7JsQ5RL7eZb3Bo=; b=SS1+7q0pxZvuqaL4MtEQiZYa+1mROy8mdRn583YjUu/wip6ZSLR/fRbIe8nN3bsbnA rVtSGlyv9ZHP2f1L6Vt8uUAxnPNxDK7WWFbdPtPex8+MPcsVrARPJ5Gszp5JCmjaJKPB JDpfsRbv6jpZ4i2N1ppW1aWfsaAYqZX8CVrWp2gQNkp3x7OywyM7hDW3yk1saa9iUfXX RpHLzlaqAaPMLPgfUvyt2pYrpwdEAwt/Hn2pC65KyvFPk6yqcnGPggDRbGjB039a/mI8 luUf65apJIdVc1nAuGbL99PGX8NzgcN1qAP4D5F045d3DccfrNgsrcXYfsWNiJUaINBV 7Xjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=j+S/Iyccn7RAq8IFskr8J312ENUIP7JsQ5RL7eZb3Bo=; b=UfhJLOxNzIuEzT0fQjdyjBvFWRcajokvGggmF9WYHo9TSxE2iEnVLondK76NmHDqPq o9/pAcITWGrT31JLuEOK7VaV9FJRAtgJfKjyzusVfy8rOWmCgmm2LlcGHWXEgIAE7Jxu qTPEqUdXXo05IV0ekGInhjRVWLqLGz2D7F4VuvMyhdglnObL8Q3Dezg1Ct8vw6iRV0IU jxiSdyGBKrPfZLbatqZXfRhLYgcqjtgQZY5z9yDB7hnJkiTJk7KStk4WiCEUYzYJUkT1 u1vgYZci8I9HXpn4hbPxa1t4BFs7EXjUa5a/PoNzaRdhsoma620dtPbN+pOnmjsDTgX5 Iatw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJ7MIeIjMDCCC3rknE4w86UyM/+pivy/Obd7z/MpncC8W0pqzQk FQbxaZkABKizBUGCIscMXCgAyRNkIASBnwsSIpH9CA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fzAnnL06L+aLgpqrNMnwFzsx2035qErk1KK4IQBjCUIiPbc4If6KkKY/A0KmqOXf+/DV04lArfJx4SnTrCaKE= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2cfc:: with SMTP id 57-v6mr2402951qtx.277.1541637389782; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 16:36:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:36:19 +0100 Message-ID: To: hhwsmit@xs4all.nl Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org, Tony Li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fda516057a1c6cc2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 00:36:33 -0000 --000000000000fda516057a1c6cc2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" All, > Again, if people think that LSVR is a good idea, then how can they > think that ISIS flooding over TCP is not a good idea ? This is > the base idea for our proposal. A quick look at the LSVR draft > show people from Cisco, Nokia (and Arrcus). (I'm not sure what > Juniper or Arista or other vendors think about using BGP-LS). > I would like to make one additional observation here ... We are experiencing BGP-LS crusade (completely outside of LSVR) as there is some demand to send data carried by IGP (incl SR, TE and now even BFD extensions) to remote controllers over TCP. I am pretty sure that BGP-LS would have never started if we would have had an ability to send LSDB content over TCP day one. /* Let's put controller to controller NNI across ASes aside for a moment. */ With that to me ability to progress with TCP transport extension for ISIS (and OSPF) is actually more important then work on flooding reduction. I know it may not be a popular statement, but that is based on both looking at the operational side as well as BGP protocol side. Thx, R. --000000000000fda516057a1c6cc2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,
=C2=A0
Again, if people think that LSVR is a good = idea, then how can they
think that ISIS flooding over TCP is not a good idea ? This is
the base idea for our proposal. A quick look at the LSVR draft
show people from Cisco, Nokia (and Arrcus). (I'm not sure what
Juniper or Arista or other vendors think about using BGP-LS).

I would like to make one additional observation here= ...=C2=A0

We are experiencing BGP-LS crusade (com= pletely outside of LSVR) as there is some demand to send data carried by IG= P (incl SR, TE and now even BFD extensions) to remote controllers over TCP.= =C2=A0

I am pretty sure that BGP-LS would have nev= er started if we would have had an ability to send LSDB content over TCP da= y one. /* Let's put controller to controller NNI across ASes aside for = a moment. */

With that to me ability to progress w= ith TCP transport extension for ISIS (and OSPF) is actually more important = then work on flooding reduction. I know it may not be a popular statement, = but that is based on both looking at the operational side as well as BGP pr= otocol side.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.=C2=A0
--000000000000fda516057a1c6cc2-- From nobody Wed Nov 7 17:54:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC52130DD8 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nwW3icDA9GuF for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3C681292F1 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A6E0B5E655D5; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:33 +0000 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.88]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.237]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:28 -0800 From: Uma Chunduri To: Henk Smit , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "tony.li@tony.li" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQZ8TBmL8UxQUmNSJZ4oRfDnaVCq4WAgAGO/ACAAJtwAIAASPYA Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:28 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854136A1D3F@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.126.172.225] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 01:54:38 -0000 DQoNCgk+QlRXLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbm90aGVyIHJlYXNvbiBmb3Igb3VyIHByb3Bvc2FsLiBXaXRo IHRoZSBpbmNvbWluZyBkcmFmdHMgYWJvdXQgZmxvb2RpbmctdG9wb2xvZ3ktcmVkdWN0aW9uLCB0 aGVyZSBpcyBhIG5ldyBwcm9ibGVtLg0KCT5BbGwgdGhlc2UgcHJvcG9zYWxzIGhhdmUgc2l0dWF0 aW9ucyB3aGVyZSBub24tZmxvb2RpbmcgYWRqYWNlbmNpZXMgc3VkZGVubHkgY2hhbmdlIHRvIGZs b29kaW5nIGFkamFjZW5jaWVzLiBXaGVuIHRoYXQgaGFwcGVucywgdGhlIExTREJzIG5lZWQgdG8g 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ZWRlZCBpbnN1cmFuY2UuLi4NCg0KLS0NClVtYSBDLg0K From nobody Wed Nov 7 17:55:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6604A1292F1 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:55:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BK7Esfou4KWg for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 836B1130DE9 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 09A1C52B7F75A; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:55 +0000 Received: from SJCEML521-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.88]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.104]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:54:53 -0800 From: Uma Chunduri To: Robert Raszuk , "hhwsmit@xs4all.nl" CC: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Tony Li , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQZ8TBmL8UxQUmNSJZ4oRfDnaVCq4WAgAGO/ACAAJtwAIAALMUAgABo1YCAACWqgP//iObg Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:54:52 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854136A1D52@sjceml521-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: 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Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Nov 2018 02:48:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wA82mWVK022360 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 02:48:32 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 20:48:32 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 20:48:31 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Henk Smit CC: "tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQQhdtsLtzGL0aulBBpslE59KVCif6AgAEjL2CAAQc9AP//vlGAgADXSYD//9vs0A== Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 02:48:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 02:48:48 -0000 Henk - Top posting for better readability. =20 1)Whether we should publicly document what smart implementers have done is = not relevant here (though I appreciate this thread has sparked interest). I= f folks want to discuss this please do so in a separate thread. The only point I am making is that there are implementations which have alr= eady solved the problems you are trying to address by using TCP and have do= ne so w/o requiring protocol extensions. These implementations will not ben= efit from your proposal. 2)Your solution introduces two sub-sessions associated with an adjacency - = one the traditional hello exchange over Layer 2 - the other a "TCP-like" se= ssion used to support the IS-IS Update process (LSP flooding). Both sub-sessions MUST be in the UP state in order for an adjacency to be u= sable. If either of the sub-sessions is down then the adjacency isn't usabl= e and advertisement of the neighbor MUST be withdrawn. Otherwise we risk bl= ackholes. 3)Because the fate of the two sub-sessions is not guaranteed share fate, yo= u have to deal with this issue conceptually similar to the way RFC 6213 has= done. This is an essential part of the solution which you must define. 4)It is true BFD does not detect all possible failures - and it is possible= there are still scenarios where BFD session state might not always share = fate with the corresponding address-family data packets. If you have ideas = for improvements here that would certainly be of interest to the IETF commu= nity. But BFD does work quite well and is widely deployed and its use to pr= event IGP adjacency UP unless BFD session is also up has definitely solved = real world problems. 5)The suppression of IS-IS adjacency advertisement until completion of init= ial LSPDB sync ("be like OSPF") has been addressed by use of the Suppress A= djacency(SA) bit as defined in RFC 5306 (IS-IS Restart). Note SA bit applie= s to cold start - not restart (do not be misled by the name of the containi= ng document). 6)CSNP reliability is a known issue. ISO 10589 addressed this issue by requ= iring that SRM bit be set for all LSPs in the local LSPDB on adjacency UP i= n addition to sending a CSNP set. As an aside, ISO 10589 did this even thou= gh at the time (circa 1990) the underlying P2P sub-networks were all reliab= le (think LAPB, LAPD, X.25). Belt and suspenders.. In cases where both of the neighbors already have (most of) the LSPDB, the = loss of a CSNP results in unnecessary flooding of many LSPs. Avoiding this = cost may be ameliorated by making initial CSNP exchange reliable (RFC 5306 = includes this as part of the restart mechanism). But we are dealing w tran= sitory failures - and TCP is not immune to this The fact that no IS-IS cod= e is required to recover from this when TCP is used does not mean that retr= ansmissions come for free. There is no free lunch. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Henk Smit > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 2:22 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP >=20 >=20 >=20 > Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote 2018-11-07 17:06: >=20 > >> The problem that RFC6213 tries to solve is a case where one of the > >> neighbors is thinking that the other does not support BFD. And thus > >> the lack of BFD is not used as an indication that something is wrong. > >> Right ? > >> > > [Les:] This is not correct. > > The key paragraph is in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6213#section-2 > > > > " The problem with this solution is that it assumes that the > > transmission and receipt of IS-IS Hellos (IIHs) shares fate with > > forwarded data packets. This is not a fair assumption to make given > > that the primary use of BFD is to protect IPv4 (and IPv6) > > forwarding, > > and IS-IS does not utilize IPv4 or IPv6 for sending or receiving its > > hellos." > > > > We have seen cases where IPv4/IPv6 data packet delivery has been > > compromised - but IS-IS PDU delivery was unaffected. This led to the > > following behavior: > > > > 1)IS-IS exchanges hellos and bring adjacency up. Routes using the link > > are installed > > 2)BFD session is started and comes up > > 3)After a time some problem occurs which only impact IP traffic - BFD > > session goes down. > > 4)IS-IS adjacency is brought down due to BFD session down, but IS-IS > > continues to send hellos. If they are successfully exchanged then > > IS-IS adjacency is almost immediately restored and we resume > > installing IP routes using the link even though BFD session never > > comes up. Data traffic gets dropped. >=20 > Thanks for the explanation. > But that is kinda what I wanted to say. > BFD is failing (because the IP-path is failing), and IS-IS doesn't > realize this, because it thinks that BFD isn't being used (because > "BFD session never comes up". >=20 > > The extensions in RFC 6213 allow IS-IS to know when both sides support > > BFD, which means the sequence changes to: > > > > 1)IS-IS exchanges hellos - but adjacency remains in INIT state. > > 2)BFD session is initiated - IS-IS adjacency remains in INIT state > > until BFD session comes up. > > > > Thus IS-IS never installs routes using the link unless we know IP > > traffic can be successfully delivered. > > We can then use BFD both as a requirement to bring the adjacency up > > AND as fast failure detection. >=20 > OK. What do you suggest we do to fix this failure case if we do > flooding over TCP ? >=20 > - We could make BFD mandatory when flooding over TCP ? If the IP-path > is broken, TCP will fail, but BFD will also fail ? >=20 > - We bring the adjacency to UP state, but we don't include it in our own > LSP immediately. Only after the TCP session has been established, we > advertise the new adjacency in our LSP. Would that be enough ? It would > stop routes from being calculated over the new adjacency. > Maybe wait until the TCP connection has been set up, and a pair of IIHs > has been exchanged over it ? (So authentication and other stuff can > be verified for the TCP session). > Or maybe even wait until IIHs have been sent, and then full sets of > CSNPs > are exchanged in both directions ? >=20 > That last suggestion starts approaching the way OSPF does this. If I > recall > correctly, OSPF will only include adjacencies in its type-1 LSA after > DDs > have been exchanged, and the full LDSB has been synchronized. Would you > want IS-IS to do the same ? >=20 > - If the TCP session breaks, do you want to stop including the adjacency > in the LSP ? This will make things like NSF, process restart and control > plane failover much harder. >=20 > >> What if two routers can exchange IIHs and do proper flooding of > >> LSPs. But they can not exchange IP packets ? This could happen. > >> IS-IS does not have a way to deal with this. > > > > [Les:] RFC 6213 was written precisely to address this case - and works > > very well. >=20 > The fact that BFD is working does not mean it is 100% sure that aal > IP traffic will work. Failures might depend on protocol number, > portnumbers, packetsize, etc. I agree that it is likely that if BFD > works, all of IP will work. But it's no guarantee. > Likewise we have to decide how paranoia we want to be that if IIHs > are exchanged, how sure are we that TCP can exchange LSPs as well ? >=20 > Maybe a good compromise would be: > 1) don't advertise the adjacency in your LSPs until the TCP flooding > connection has been established. (And maybe IIHs/CSNPs are exchanged). > 2) after connection is fully up (IIHs and flooding works), use longer > time-outs to determine whether TCP is still working. > 3) when the other side closes a TCP connection (by FIN or RST), don't > stop advertising the adjacency in your LSP immediately. In stead, > for the next 10 seconds or so, try to re-establish the TCP connection > first. If re-establishment doesn't work, then the router can stop > including the adjacency in its LSP. >=20 > This would prevent routers advertising new adjacencies that have a > problem > with TCP. But if it works, and suddenly stops working, convergence is > slower (10 seconds or so). But the protocol has the ability to > re-establish > the TCP session, to make it more flexible. >=20 > Would that be acceptable ? >=20 > > [Les:] Actually they have. :-) That's why we wrote RFC 6213 - because > > the problem has been seen in the field. >=20 > I was talking about a router forwarding traffic. > BFD between router A and router B could work, but B (for some reason) > doesn't forward traffic. That was my extreme example to show that BFD > doesn't protect all weird failure scenarios possible. The question is: > how paranoia does a protocol want to be ? >=20 > > [Les:] I appreciate your concerns - and it is true that "most of the > > time" if we cannot receive IP traffic we likely cannot receive IS-IS > > PDUs . But actual field experience has shown this is not always the > > case - and when it is not the lack of recognition of the failed state > > has major impacts. > > > > I don't think you can ignore this case just because it will happen > > infrequently. >=20 > We got BFD to protect against that. > But if I understand correctly, you propose that if the TCP session > doesn't > come up, or get torn down later, we also bring down the adjacency, even > when IIHs are still exchanged. That's reasonable, of course. Even if it > makes > things slightly more complicated. >=20 > > [Les:] I am not suggesting that this aspect of scaling can be ignored. > > But I am saying implementations have successfully addressed this with > > "smarter implementations" and done so w/o requiring protocol > > extensions. >=20 > I personally agree with this position. > Vendors should be able to distinguish themselves from the competition. >=20 > But people working for operators have a different view. > When this draft got published, we got private email from an operator > addressing a number of issues (mainly when using unnumbered interfaces). > His point was: he wanted to make sure that all corner-cases are handled > identically by all vendors. Or at least in an inter-operable way. > Therefor he wanted every little detail of implementation explicitly > mentioned. I guess seeing your backbone go down because of > vendor-specific > enhancements (or lack thereof) will give you a different view on the > matter. >=20 > So I think that if vendors do things that are noticable on the wire, > even > if they should be compatible with standard behaviour, those things > should > be documented at least. Therefor I thought: "if all vendors are gonna > implement their own pacing and their own reliability and their own > high throughput, why not all use the same well-known transport > protocol". > Hence our proposal. >=20 > > [Les:] I think the details of the "smart implementations" have not > > been formally documented because they did not require protocol > > extensions (i.e., they are interoperable w implementations which do > > not have equal smarts) and they are largely seen as the value add > > resulting from significant development/test efforts. Why would I want > > to give that knowledge away for free when I might use it to gain a > > competitive advantage? >=20 > Router vendors do not. > Operators probably do want everything written down. > For themselves and to ensure inter-operability. >=20 > > Perhaps it is time to revisit that and consider writing some sort of > > BCP document - but that is a separate discussion. >=20 > If the people who want this knowledge shared, can find someone who can > has that knowledge, and who wants to write it down, they should go > ahead. :) >=20 > The thing that surprises me a little that a lot of these protocol > enhancements (or even brand new protocols) would not be necessary > if all implementations were perfect. It seems that in some cases we > try to improve networks not by improving equipment, but by trying > just a slightly different way to do things. >=20 > Again, if people think that LSVR is a good idea, then how can they > think that ISIS flooding over TCP is not a good idea ? This is > the base idea for our proposal. A quick look at the LSVR draft > show people from Cisco, Nokia (and Arrcus). (I'm not sure what > Juniper or Arista or other vendors think about using BGP-LS). >=20 > > [Les:] I do not advocate "just send an CSNP and be done with it" for > > the very reasons you mention. > > You will see that > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-01#section-6.= 7.2 > > specifies that normal LSPDB synchronization occurs on adjacency > > bringup. >=20 > That test mentioned enabling (and thus also disabling) flooding over > specific > adjacencies. When you (re-)enable flooding over an adjacency, you need > to do the synchronization over again. So you need to exchange CSNPs and > transmit any missing LSPs. That's what I meant by writing "and be done > with it". > It's not a complex idea. But when CSNPs get dropped, synchronization > becomes > more expensive (because you transmit LSPs which might not have been > necessary). > I hope using TCP will make synchronization in this case more efficient. >=20 > henk. 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Tony Li , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP Thread-Index: AQHUdYQQhdtsLtzGL0aulBBpslE59KVCif6AgAEjL2CAAPZ5AIAALMUAgABo1oCAACWpgP//0aMA Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 02:50:22 +0000 Message-ID: <6990DA1F-D58D-4AC4-9C5E-FC1E0A584F1E@cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.7.107] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6990DA1FD58D4AC49C5EFC1E0A584F1Eciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.141, xch-rtp-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IS-IS over TCP X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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([2001:67c:370:128:6dfb:69bf:783b:9efe]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v12-v6sm2483819pfa.167.2018.11.07.18.59.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 18:59:22 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 09:59:19 +0700 Cc: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> To: Les Ginsberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 02:59:31 -0000 Les, > 1)Whether we should publicly document what smart implementers have = done is not relevant here (though I appreciate this thread has sparked = interest). If folks want to discuss this please do so in a separate = thread. > The only point I am making is that there are implementations which = have already solved the problems you are trying to address by using TCP = and have done so w/o requiring protocol extensions. These = implementations will not benefit from your proposal. >=20 You are the one who started this thread. You are the one who said that = this solution is not necessary because you have your own proprietary = secret solution to the problem.=20 You cannot expect anyone to take that position seriously. Other people = want the problem solved and references to secret solutions is simply = teasing. Tony From nobody Wed Nov 7 19:33:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC2F128DFD for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:33:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxEnmgLmnPp4 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:33:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F19441293FB for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:33:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1844; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1541648006; x=1542857606; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ovV2dROGDZ8BQIjJY+CQ3C23zfKiSxV/FbK92pzRLog=; b=Aw5frh9FEUX5TqCA7GT63lrE4VrmUuuEC0U5+zzCOZ3xikmGz53/iXf3 lJlpqXNzejuAUagfWQqetP5cEDYjBF18jdWbhn/ECpsCXhtDTrOyL1DsT lKu6pK9uQK8GaAGHspHtZAhs8XsGyb6aPYmhKcbsxMgvtLyC1IPPG3rPO 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BfAABBruNb/5BdJa1jGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBZYIEgWgnCpgCgg2JA5AnCwEBhGwCgwkiOBYBAwEBAgEBAm0?= =?us-ascii?q?cAQuFOgEBAQEDOj8MBAIBCBEEAQEfECERHQgCBA4FCBOEcAMVqTWIDg2CGYt?= =?us-ascii?q?4F4FBP4QjgTeBH4gDAp8ULgkCjWaDIiCBV4UBihCOH4YsgncCERSBJjQhgVV?= =?us-ascii?q?wFYMngicXhxCHDEExjDOBHwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,478,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="260314015" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Nov 2018 03:33:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wA83XPNl005394 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:33:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 21:33:25 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 21:33:24 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Teasing us with secrets Thread-Index: AQHUdw8OBM/yX9Djp0WvtiBUc0Pqo6VFNMpA Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 03:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.236] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 03:33:29 -0000 Tony - I am not "teasing". I also don't think this is much of a secret. I am pretty sure experienced implementers know what I am talking about. (BTW, I include you in that group. :-) ) I also am pretty sure many of our customers know what I am talking about si= nce it is their scale requirements that have forced us to improve our imple= mentations. What I am very concerned about is that we are focused on the wrong problem.= We don't have a problem flooding a large number of LSPs on a single interf= ace. We do have a problem flooding the same LSP redundantly on many different li= nks in a densely meshed network. Les=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Li On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 6:59 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Cc: Henk Smit ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Teasing us with secrets >=20 >=20 > Les, >=20 > > 1)Whether we should publicly document what smart implementers have done > is not relevant here (though I appreciate this thread has sparked interes= t). If > folks want to discuss this please do so in a separate thread. > > The only point I am making is that there are implementations which have > already solved the problems you are trying to address by using TCP and ha= ve > done so w/o requiring protocol extensions. These implementations will not > benefit from your proposal. > > >=20 >=20 > You are the one who started this thread. You are the one who said that th= is > solution is not necessary because you have your own proprietary secret so= lution > to the problem. >=20 > You cannot expect anyone to take that position seriously. Other people wa= nt > the problem solved and references to secret solutions is simply teasing. >=20 > Tony From nobody Wed Nov 7 19:40:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB4C130E43 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:40:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Ae8ZQ1L6Vql for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3174512958B for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2018 19:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id v9-v6so6371343pff.2 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:40:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aCn8mcBQ7fsZLTmU2vDyX+2M2dmiq0zW0HW1tD9FwGE=; b=fAcByWoeTXVvqQCuwPQXQXx6T0noxQTJe26cJaqbNP4i+aC/uotTRvGD9WYK3Ea9e7 GTizVIC1lvJEzk+qIJT80z2vv20gKx4g3DFM1gZx86kpQzomHBhAan4mfB/dX23itnRi esm5dg2BweKATz/pPeIY7eOSH8pBIxObesrL94ad0sPQ2SdX9eBSFp80JrhMha1naepn L3Hr7znt6FUdUK+kzEcBk0mpCtw/4ntTvqRMkn01pEUtD6o6aIk1GicYC5+wLN+SsLcT Q49A/6xF+NJI5uqkGQY3nlriKOLt5cNVv7N8kKuhutyX5vhnLcjRkU80ZHM0kOKAFD07 kjIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=aCn8mcBQ7fsZLTmU2vDyX+2M2dmiq0zW0HW1tD9FwGE=; b=RdeN+AttHbiCXpZPOMNzxq15QLN36aGnOZoWCzvv+JWcuuPoFQDm9lFJrlbmSk7rPD 14/03C8nkMPXKmlyyz7VzO/bTlhQR1KvJaj7rmrlthp4h1pAjuLvXr5N2880VOFXG9ug 9jX0806RiDC41AMbxfVzyOfzXr0A0b2jcECe1XdYQk/M7OIqKR+LQhLaRDS3F5X71iuw 0VlHLLX7gIFuOucxQ6NW4rIkGQBVXflc416U4Wg4EJL6DisFzxOLzctYoqRHnPK2ya1Z olFtUO+8KTSv1ndimBKXAwxLV3mgY78YkzMNNLNYCCcC2WJMz6uOOPOFwUZdbCEsSPr2 5ipg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJzIdhOLL0JX9QSHDq/pVH0NwtwwImcHwIW2W86SIQkHt68y15H 6VYqKnJGK3mHFyUo9LbYUIBjr34dhT0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5ea5hcA7Zsr/14+7MJuQWIzhLGQIIx92PG13NM+IwrLUCyD1li6HayHJEgDsH3GV4Z9L4KSag== X-Received: by 2002:a63:1b48:: with SMTP id b8mr2510723pgm.187.1541648419400; Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:6dfb:69bf:783b:9efe? ([2001:67c:370:128:6dfb:69bf:783b:9efe]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 72-v6sm2529279pfl.126.2018.11.07.19.40.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:40:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 10:40:16 +0700 Cc: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> To: Les Ginsberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 03:40:21 -0000 Les, > I am not "teasing". > I also don't think this is much of a secret. >=20 > I am pretty sure experienced implementers know what I am talking = about. > (BTW, I include you in that group. :-) ) Ongoing undocumented knowledge is wholly irrelevant when writing = standards. There=E2=80=99s simply nothing to reference and thus a = tease. It=E2=80=99s true that there is no obligation to document this = knowledge, but at the same time, that knowledge cannot be used to = pre-empt alternative solutions. > What I am very concerned about is that we are focused on the wrong = problem. We don't have a problem flooding a large number of LSPs on a = single interface. The fact that there is undocumented knowledge that completely = contradicts established standards that is necessary for scalable = operations implies that there is indeed a problem. Tony From nobody Thu Nov 8 01:32:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF8A12D4E7 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:32:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jN9-UOe0klqp for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com (mail-pl1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0FF12870E for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 01:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id q19-v6so6282538pll.7 for ; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 01:32:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WaSyqo8BsdgORqBC5KvX0INREe93VmA9Yq2+ddVIFpM=; b=aqRj/sqKQ4WcXvB5DCAJvFiGVSzAtvWDVU1NUw0EnREtbcOy694GVMS/8WlXu2YAHQ Bd4rp293Tbr9k6g8iF8QPg4rT2qyEyNyOLK/NTF81hetSVr3ZRqiMzBnaWJTPAEUmEZ2 ZxTe0y25v2gdIheJEGVhkFrEWSrOfhPZ4/nN75jwmH9J4PCYIFzVz7yq5Rb3Ngn0FGBM XNG5HS2fGTGUC5cZJgH+TK4NICwzx7mIfPhfhPn5PKMSWDIAFljOQcK+KDuTd8y09bm0 LeEbmTIcXBDD1Mo+bZ+evXI3Za+19xSBumafgse/gat4sXnBwEJPOqqZUt3CGxgYzluF sR6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WaSyqo8BsdgORqBC5KvX0INREe93VmA9Yq2+ddVIFpM=; b=fO3fG5hGUzLmMjVbKZzhHm8e/mTjrkBQuQPHn2Xrk64zCAXKlESdh2oOaNcaua3mLL zp5RenUyaJJT7F3yr8XrZvVPSxxgJMwabdLc2Zoq+bpwvFNut6zUy+COcX0BgBwoOupq iDO0iUZVjGIBTYU3O6mgNX5s785r6fnZGHhrceizszkYUXfzax3C8dRRAOvwPrVobw4q OioNMamlvBQlRS9XjxzAU3RIUDczZFWEe2ZGdILr/dt+50s65hEWjztppL3q5zHfng05 FsEtl/WptGHHiuUV6Lcvwzp+dSPXV/wQUel2D9t1wiYHfsoU36zq4O5JH8cSEcN9zAYN OtDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gImJjWNoqfhMI8Y5aycfw/YpPPh3ia29wT/3aGUsiEhg2Hz8kct 0MHPYG456a554VZsS8Z1Uf0+pzphm9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5ezLSE8TDobJukU9lq9INjeUI0+88bFheHBQkBLI0vEQuMLJQMENjhxHRMu+DAV6uENGxGdDQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:3225:: with SMTP id y34-v6mr3710423plb.227.1541669544694; Thu, 08 Nov 2018 01:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:a8db:db3b:2c87:76ef? ([2001:67c:370:128:a8db:db3b:2c87:76ef]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s22-v6sm6476584pfi.15.2018.11.08.01.32.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Nov 2018 01:32:24 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <425FF31B-A4DB-4187-8BAA-7F9E89F26882@tony.li> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 16:32:21 +0700 Cc: lsr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <425FF31B-A4DB-4187-8BAA-7F9E89F26882@tony.li> To: Tony Li X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Side meeting: Flooding reduction X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 09:32:27 -0000 Folks, I=E2=80=99m sorry to say that we weren=E2=80=99t able to achieve = critical mass. Meeting canceled. Tony > On Nov 7, 2018, at 10:00 AM, tony.li@tony.li wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I would like to invite all interested parties to a side meeting to = discuss (and resolve) our direction on the LSR flooding proposals. >=20 > Time: 9am Friday, Nov. 9 > Location: Boromphimarn 3 >=20 > Please RSVP unicast to me.=20 >=20 > If I don=E2=80=99t see a critical mass of responses within 24 hours, I = will mail out a cancellation. Otherwise, the meeting is on. >=20 > Thanks, > Tony >=20 From nobody Thu Nov 8 19:12:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C4812D7F8; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 19:12:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154173313543.25548.11077043390580478827@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 19:12:15 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 03:12:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Stefano Previdi Les Ginsberg Clarence Filsfils Ahmed Bashandy Hannes Gredler Bruno Decraene Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2018-11-08 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF). This draft describes the necessary IS-IS extensions that need to be introduced for Segment Routing operating on an MPLS data-plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 8 20:46:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D39130DBE; Thu, 8 Nov 2018 20:46:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Acee Lindem To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Uma Chunduri , uma.chunduri@huawei.com, Christian Hopps , lsr-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154173877954.25571.4301541430061288806.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 20:46:19 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 04:46:20 -0000 Acee Lindem has requested publication of draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/ From nobody Fri Nov 9 03:43:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF85130DFF; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 03:43:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154176382068.14988.1978718865200503742@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 03:43:40 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-06.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:43:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF Link Traffic Engineering (TE) Attribute Reuse Authors : Peter Psenak Acee Lindem Les Ginsberg Wim Henderickx Jeff Tantsura Hannes Gredler John Drake Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-06.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2018-11-09 Abstract: Various link attributes have been defined in OSPF in the context of the MPLS Traffic Engineering (TE) and GMPLS. Many of these link attributes can be used for applications other than MPLS Traffic Engineering or GMPLS. This document defines how to distribute such attributes in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 for applications other than MPLS Traffic Engineering or GMPLS. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 9 03:44:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195CF130DE9; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 03:44:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKk_ALTuYC-q; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 03:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C93C130DFD; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 03:44:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3076; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1541763864; x=1542973464; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FK+tRHRHWqRkwei0x9tKgpcHYoMzCcp6xgNU/L+fj1g=; b=iGZzo9HDWEAEIKUTYvRThmZJqbh+nRub9uG6wXzSJf7shqjNmgjqbLcI QT3GzzHacASl4YSeFX19LIQSyM6UZ++Qqu3rx+gg1WegvNH64yffprze0 x3lheUcPYngKo41+WifqaU97trdZT2/kQzgr3QBwlv8Y7YVjYqRFH/vy/ k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AOAABLcuVb/xbLJq1kGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBVAEBAQEBAQsBgmlPIRIng3iId40pmSwNJYRHAoNDNwo?= =?us-ascii?q?NAQMBAQIBAQJtHAyFOgEBAQMBIxUzDQEQCxIGAgIFFgsCAgkDAgECATcOBgE?= =?us-ascii?q?MAQcBAYMegXkID6c/gSAOhT2EYAWBC4sIgUE/gRGDEoMbBIRjglcCiH+GRpA?= =?us-ascii?q?HCZEZGIFXhQGCfIcal3GBWSKBVTMaCBsVO4JtgiYXEohMhT8+AzABjUMBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.54,483,1534809600"; d="scan'208";a="7928198" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Nov 2018 11:44:21 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wA9BiKPK008187; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 11:44:20 GMT Message-ID: <5BE57314.7060706@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 12:44:20 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yaron Sheffer , secdir@ietf.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: <154134589488.32046.1179323499664545252@ietfa.amsl.com> <5BDFFB72.7010100@cisco.com> <09c65027-5352-f783-7cbb-af5f8aa95cec@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <09c65027-5352-f783-7cbb-af5f8aa95cec@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 11:44:28 -0000 Hi Yaron, On 06/11/18 07:13 , Yaron Sheffer wrote: > Thank you Peter, this addresses my comments. latest version (17) includes your comments. thanks, Peter > > Yaron > > On 05/11/2018 10:12, Peter Psenak wrote: >> Hi Yaron, >> >> thanks for your comments, please see inline: >> >> >> On 04/11/18 16:38 , Yaron Sheffer wrote: >>> Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer >>> Review result: Has Nits >>> >>> Summary: document has non-security related nits. >>> >>> Details >>> >>> * The definition of "segment" is different here from the one used in the >>> architecture RFC. The RFC is more abstract, quoting: A node steers a >>> packet >>> through an ordered list of instructions, called "segments". Whereas >>> here a >>> segment is simply a sub-path. This is confusing to a non-expert, and >>> perhaps >>> indicates a change in the group's thinking. >> >> the definition in this draft relates to segment as used by IGPs, in >> which case a segment represents the sub-path. There are other segments >> outside of IGPs which can represent other things, but they are not >> covered by this draft. >> >> >>> >>> * SID/Label Sub-TLV: is it Mandatory? If so, please point it out. >> >> SID/Label Sub-TLV is not advertised on its own. It is advertised as a >> sub-TLV of the: >> >> 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV >> 3.3. SR Local Block TLV >> >> Both of these section specify that SID/Label Sub-TLV MUST be included. >> >>> >>> * "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional" - I find this sentence >>> confusing. Maybe >>> replace by "The SR-Algorithm TLV is mandatory for routers that implement >>> segment routing"? >> >> >> the text says: >> >> "If the SR-Algorithm TLV >> is not advertised by the node, such node is considered as not being >> segment routing capable." >> >> Isn't that sufficient? >> >> >>> >>> * The reference under "IGP Algorithm Type" registry should be to the >>> IANA >>> registry itself, not to the I-D that defines it. (In particular since >>> the IANA >>> registry has already been established, >>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types). >>> >> >> I got another comment from Opsdir last call review to include the I-D >> that defined it. I Added them both, hopefully that satisfy everybody. >> >>> >>> * OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV Flags octet: add the usual >>> incantation about >>> reserved bits. >> >> Done. >> >> >> >> >>> * In general I agree with the reasoning in the Security >>> Considerations. I would >>> like to raise the question if, in addition to mis-routing, this adds >>> a threat >>> of massive denial-of-service on MPLS endpoints, e.g. by allowing an >>> attacker >>> who has OSPF access to introduce routing loops. (This may be >>> completely bogus, >>> I am far from expert with either of these protocols). >> >> above is addressed by usage of the usage of the OSPF authentication as >> described in the security section. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >>> >>> . >>> >> > . > From nobody Fri Nov 9 06:30:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5E0D130E08; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 06:30:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oKyMIpeG1fSR; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 06:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E90E41277C8; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 06:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42s2cX4KSQz2009; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:30:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.31]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42s2cX3P5Yz8sYT; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:30:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM22.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::8c90:f4e9:be28:2a1%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:30:20 +0100 From: To: "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc Thread-Index: AdR4OJWYmH00pYTzTK6gvxR+PFXbGg== Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 14:30:19 +0000 Message-ID: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6AOPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 14:30:24 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6AOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG, Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how to encode the entropy = label capability for SR but we hadn't found a consensus on the target solut= ion. IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various people that have = participated to this discussion. Following this discussion, we are coming with the following proposal that t= he WG need to validate: The entropy label capability is still considered as a per node property (fo= r simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC per linecard). The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do= not want to have an ERLD per linecard). However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging to the node itse= lf in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes. A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or a = different one) are redistributing routes between each other. The inter-area use case is also creating a similar situation. When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a segment it must ensur= e that the tail-end of the segment is entropy label capable otherwise packe= ts will be dropped. As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, the entropy label capabi= lity of the node who has firstly originated the prefix, should be associate= d to the prefix during the redistribution. In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy label capability f= or each prefix advertised by a node. The entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix Attribut= es IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684). The entropy label capability may be set for local prefixes (e.g. loopbacks)= by a local configuration and for leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a pre= fix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix may be als= o leaked/redistributed. An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix segment only if= the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the ELC set in the Pre= fix Attributes. An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adjacency segment only if = the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertised the Adj SID is advert= ising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable). For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the signaling of the bindi= ng SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts. Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we can progress thes= e documents. Brgds, Stephane ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6AOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi WG,

 

Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how= to encode the entropy label capability for SR but we hadn’t found a = consensus on the target solution.

IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face va= rious people that have participated to this discussion.

 

Following this discussion, we are coming with the fo= llowing proposal that the WG need to validate:

 

The entropy label capability is still considered as = a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC p= er linecard).

The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for s= implicity reason, we do not want to have an ERLD per linecard).<= /p>

 

However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not bel= onging to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes.

A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running = the same protocol or a different one) are redistributing routes between eac= h other.

The inter-area use case is also creating a similar s= ituation.

 

When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a= segment  it must ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy l= abel capable otherwise packets will be dropped.

 

As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, t= he entropy label capability of the node who has firstly originated the pref= ix, should be associated to the prefix during the redistribution.

 

In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an ent= ropy label capability for each prefix advertised by a node.

The entropy label capability will be encoded as part= of the Prefix Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684).

The entropy label capability may be set for local pr= efixes (e.g. loopbacks) by a local configuration and for leaked/redistribut= ed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated t= o the prefix may be also leaked/redistributed.

 

An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node= /Prefix segment only if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as= the ELC set in the Prefix Attributes.

An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adj= acency segment only if the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertise= d the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable).

 

For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the= signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts.

 

 

Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal = so we can progress these documents.

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6AOPEXCLILMA4corp_-- From nobody Sat Nov 10 07:50:50 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E759B124408; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ucpoue9r-ULy; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com (mail-oi1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A929212426A; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id u130-v6so3943084oie.7; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=GBE/lWbaVj0Lw3a2RegW1QpiZ2GKxteGLDGLhA8ZQX8=; b=Wv5qNW9KAExjf6rX4oApU4vl6eFiwfp84mTSOqn9bENXX6l8FxgqrxOInUryq3rb3Z XvRjxldvkWvXo3RzWKtWtOwZso9JUUWWoWDE4JN2r9IOZaOslteKRrsdPgZnJE3uSEen nqv6xIOjrHmdUbh4I00/ST5TUsEC2Hen9KESpPBNoBfmGKEMgwoIuwMETWzk9RjlqyNA a9GtI/MiiRAM627OhrzpEqT8dUcWyKbcGo8HYOk4hcSJ2D6CuitLkUtGr310J1Ffl//F EEEsmlXUSji/aeTXJ091+VTCnLnAqm/EiV/qs7ut8pnL/1Jwv11d9QBcgASI1O7OcnYO hcgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=GBE/lWbaVj0Lw3a2RegW1QpiZ2GKxteGLDGLhA8ZQX8=; b=R8UXtpDcTTwLdEBT3nNpFb2R5SEOIvjEYiRmjJP0zmMeCgcm/LPPJwgUK9A3/onnM7 LBqeOmRJKt8Bp56eAw4PLL/ysA5McMJOdhztKkB/ZCJpoa1ldn2bYZNqLTdU3rtPIvdu xyLQ2QOEMiIDE9LdipIa5ga3phMmTEhaaHfy+vR0hFm900RkcDNO9P7yTnGC1MKVABIY Xho9pfEdD64ZdqC2oeMosJwGsFaqgWfTJwWBut3nSYa83wwcflxcePKG66rk1hJ4+TqF K9bgdVpE00Wx6OORI00Qq6fY1NwKZvydtgLu4lmFs6sFYKIPDgGzqQ2ZWMVTBuTqem/X 5OSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLHzDnjsYKiA1R5lTnQgJhA2WR2kO1Y8cjKxKCbo3t9EVQfa2sR tU5fNPYytjDvTEj1g5neL59M1cQW X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5d1Gdimb/fxVXAf/ECBJOm/JcWvHEaqFHZZqwkSnNqVyJH+53NVv5fIBxf6CdWkwdYnZl/UbA== X-Received: by 2002:aca:e607:: with SMTP id d7-v6mr7024011oih.68.1541865036628; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ ([2600:1700:720:1050:1453:2926:a4d6:568c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n129-v6sm4012310oif.23.2018.11.10.07.50.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Nov 2018 07:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: Cc: , , Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 10:50:34 -0500 Message-ID: <051f01d4790d$1edfdbb0$5c9f9310$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdR5DQEetHFILxLVQJuDw/lQFwBnKQ== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:50:42 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. = The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related = drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and = sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide = assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing = Directorate, please see = =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it = would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF = Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through = discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 Reviewer: Russ White Review Date: 10 November 2018 IETF LC End Date: 12 December 2018 Intended Status: Standards Track Summary:=20 This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that = should be considered prior to publication. Overall, this document is well written, and the mechanisms described are = well thought out.=20 Major Issues: No major issues found. Minor Issues: No minor issues found. Nits: Section 2.1 Algorithms identifiers are defined in Section 3.2. "Algorithm" rather than "Algorithms." Sections 2.1 and 2.2 "Length" is listed as "variable," but not further definition is = provided. From the text it seems like valid values here would be 3 or = 20, in octets, as this is explicit in section 2.3, but it might be good = to clarify (ie, just copy the text for "Length" in section 2.3 to these = sections as well). =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Sat Nov 10 15:24:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE25128CFD; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:24:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27FgTGIlBNvD; 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11 Nov 2018 04:10:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wAB4A41E003304 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 11 Nov 2018 04:10:04 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:10:03 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:10:03 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "7riw77@gmail.com" <7riw77@gmail.com>, "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 Thread-Index: AdR5DQEetHFILxLVQJuDw/lQFwBnKQAZdVwA Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 04:10:03 +0000 Message-ID: <96cd911e65504ceaa3c83d14d70f5d2a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <051f01d4790d$1edfdbb0$5c9f9310$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <051f01d4790d$1edfdbb0$5c9f9310$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.115.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-20 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 04:10:14 -0000 UnVzcyAtDQoNClRoYW54IGZvciB0aGUgcmV2aWV3Lg0KUmVzcG9uc2VzIGlubGluZS4NCg0KDQo+ IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IDdyaXc3N0BnbWFpbC5jb20gPDdy aXc3N0BnbWFpbC5jb20+DQo+IFNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAxMCwgMjAxOCA3OjUx IEFNDQo+IFRvOiBydGctYWRzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IENjOiBydGctZGlyQGlldGYub3JnOyBkcmFm dC1pZXRmLWlzaXMtc2VnbWVudC1yb3V0aW5nLWV4dGVuc2lvbnMuYWxsQGlldGYub3JnOw0KPiBs c3JAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUnRnRGlyIHJldmlldzogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pc2lzLXNl Z21lbnQtcm91dGluZy1leHRlbnNpb25zLTIwDQo+IA0KPiBIZWxsbywNCj4gDQo+IEkgaGF2ZSBi ZWVuIHNlbGVjdGVkIGFzIHRoZSBSb3V0aW5nIERpcmVjdG9yYXRlIHJldmlld2VyIGZvciB0aGlz IGRyYWZ0LiBUaGUNCj4gUm91dGluZyBEaXJlY3RvcmF0ZSBzZWVrcyB0byByZXZpZXcgYWxsIHJv dXRpbmcgb3Igcm91dGluZy1yZWxhdGVkIGRyYWZ0cyBhcw0KPiB0aGV5IHBhc3MgdGhyb3VnaCBJ RVRGIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBhbmQgSUVTRyByZXZpZXcsIGFuZCBzb21ldGltZXMgb24gc3BlY2lhbA0K PiByZXF1ZXN0LiBUaGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiB0aGUgcmV2aWV3IGlzIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYXNzaXN0 YW5jZSB0byB0aGUgUm91dGluZw0KPiBBRHMuIEZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFib3V0IHRo ZSBSb3V0aW5nIERpcmVjdG9yYXRlLCBwbGVhc2Ugc2VlIA0KPiBodHRwOi8vdHJhYy50b29scy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9hcmVhL3J0Zy90cmFjL3dpa2kvUnRnRGlyDQo+IA0KPiBBbHRob3VnaCB0aGVzZSBj b21tZW50cyBhcmUgcHJpbWFyaWx5IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBSb3V0aW5nIEFEcywgaXQN Cj4gd291bGQgYmUgaGVscGZ1bCBpZiB5b3UgY291bGQgY29uc2lkZXIgdGhlbSBhbG9uZyB3aXRo IGFueSBvdGhlciBJRVRGIExhc3QNCj4gQ2FsbCBjb21tZW50cyB0aGF0IHlvdSByZWNlaXZlLCBh bmQgc3RyaXZlIHRvIHJlc29sdmUgdGhlbSB0aHJvdWdoDQo+IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gb3IgYnkgdXBk YXRpbmcgdGhlIGRyYWZ0Lg0KPiANCj4gRG9jdW1lbnQ6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaXNpcy1zZWdtZW50 LXJvdXRpbmctZXh0ZW5zaW9ucy0yMA0KPiBSZXZpZXdlcjogUnVzcyBXaGl0ZQ0KPiBSZXZpZXcg RGF0ZTogMTAgTm92ZW1iZXIgMjAxOA0KPiBJRVRGIExDIEVuZCBEYXRlOiAxMiBEZWNlbWJlciAy MDE4DQo+IEludGVuZGVkIFN0YXR1czogU3RhbmRhcmRzIFRyYWNrDQo+IA0KPiBTdW1tYXJ5Og0K PiANCj4gVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBiYXNpY2FsbHkgcmVhZHkgZm9yIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uLCBi dXQgaGFzIG5pdHMgdGhhdCBzaG91bGQgYmUNCj4gY29uc2lkZXJlZCBwcmlvciB0byBwdWJsaWNh dGlvbi4NCj4gDQo+IE92ZXJhbGwsIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXMgd2VsbCB3cml0dGVuLCBhbmQg dGhlIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGFyZQ0KPiB3ZWxsIHRob3VnaHQgb3V0Lg0KPiANCj4g TWFqb3IgSXNzdWVzOg0KPiANCj4gTm8gbWFqb3IgaXNzdWVzIGZvdW5kLg0KPiANCj4gTWlub3Ig SXNzdWVzOg0KPiANCj4gTm8gbWlub3IgaXNzdWVzIGZvdW5kLg0KPiANCj4gTml0czoNCj4gDQo+ IFNlY3Rpb24gMi4xDQo+IA0KPiBBbGdvcml0aG1zIGlkZW50aWZpZXJzIGFyZSBkZWZpbmVkIGlu IFNlY3Rpb24gMy4yLg0KPiANCj4gIkFsZ29yaXRobSIgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gIkFsZ29yaXRobXMu Ig0KPiANCg0KW0xlczpdIEFjayAtIHRoYW54Lg0KDQo+IFNlY3Rpb25zIDIuMSBhbmQgMi4yDQo+ IA0KPiAiTGVuZ3RoIiBpcyBsaXN0ZWQgYXMgInZhcmlhYmxlLCIgYnV0IG5vdCBmdXJ0aGVyIGRl ZmluaXRpb24gaXMgcHJvdmlkZWQuIEZyb20NCj4gdGhlIHRleHQgaXQgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSB2YWxp ZCB2YWx1ZXMgaGVyZSB3b3VsZCBiZSAzIG9yIDIwLCBpbiBvY3RldHMsIGFzIHRoaXMgaXMNCj4g ZXhwbGljaXQgaW4gc2VjdGlvbiAyLjMsIGJ1dCBpdCBtaWdodCBiZSBnb29kIHRvIGNsYXJpZnkg KGllLCBqdXN0IGNvcHkgdGhlIHRleHQgZm9yDQo+ICJMZW5ndGgiIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gMi4zIHRv IHRoZXNlIHNlY3Rpb25zIGFzIHdlbGwpLg0KPiANCltMZXM6XSBUaGUgbGVuZ3RoIG9mIHRoZSBz dWItVExWICBpcyB2YXJpYWJsZSBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZSBsZW5ndGggb2YgdGhlIFNJRCBpdHNlbGYg aXMgdmFyaWFibGUuDQoNCkJvdGggc2VjdGlvbnMgaGF2ZSB0aGUgdGV4dDoNCg0KPHNuaXA+DQpT SUQvSW5kZXgvTGFiZWw6IGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgViBhbmQgTCBmbGFncywgaXQgY29udGFp bnMNCiAgICAgIGVpdGhlcjoNCg0KICAgICAgKiAgQSA0IG9jdGV0IGluZGV4IGRlZmluaW5nIHRo ZSBvZmZzZXQgaW4gdGhlIFNJRC9MYWJlbCBzcGFjZQ0KICAgICAgICAgYWR2ZXJ0aXNlZCBieSB0 aGlzIHJvdXRlciB1c2luZyB0aGUgZW5jb2RpbmdzIGRlZmluZWQgaW4NCiAgICAgICAgIFNlY3Rp b24gMy4xLiAgSW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlIHRoZSBWIGFuZCBMIGZsYWdzIE1VU1QgYmUgdW5zZXQuDQoN CiAgICAgICogIEEgMyBvY3RldCBsb2NhbCBsYWJlbCB3aGVyZSB0aGUgMjAgcmlnaHRtb3N0IGJp dHMgYXJlIHVzZWQgZm9yDQogICAgICAgICBlbmNvZGluZyB0aGUgbGFiZWwgdmFsdWUuICBJbiB0 aGlzIGNhc2UgdGhlIFYgYW5kIEwgZmxhZ3MgTVVTVA0KICAgICAgICAgYmUgc2V0Lg0KPGVuZCBz bmlwPg0KDQpUaGUgdGV4dCBmb3IgU2VjdGlvbiAyLjMgaXMgbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgZGlmZmVyZW50 IGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gZmxhZ3MgZmllbGQgaW4gdGhlIFNJRC9MYWJlbCBzdWItVExW IGFuZCB0aGVyZSBhbHNvIGFyZSBubyBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGZpZWxkcyBpbiB0aGUgc3ViLVRMViBv dGhlciB0aGFuIHRoZSBTSUQgaXRzZWxmLg0KDQpJIHRoZXJlZm9yZSB0aGluayB0aGUgdGV4dCBh cyBpcyBzaG91bGQgYmUgZmluZSAtIGJ1dCBJIGFtIG9wZW4gdG8gc3VnZ2VzdGlvbi4NClJ1c3Mg LSBjb3VsZCB5b3UgcmV2aWV3IHRoaXMgb25lIG1vcmUgdGltZSBpbiBsaWdodCBvZiB0aGUgYWJv dmUgYW5kIGxldCBtZSBrbm93IHdoYXQgeW91IHRoaW5rPw0KDQogICBMZXMNCg0KDQo+IPCfmIog L3INCg0K From nobody Mon Nov 12 01:53:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558C412D4EE for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB5570; H:AM0PR07MB5137.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: MHWxKRkldA51Ne43u+lZ/069oe+dRyLoqqRkCufFAQDoPC3+2S1ybKsCpsn4C4YUk1VKatYis73hnBO3zGG21yGwuVslq46aMmfH23fCIeUzjL6Jub1/Gp53Eekx013ZJSmEmOaVzLwWtcz8v9Tf/ebodBg+d/Nj6xFGKC0jtEhISyuzaRQLG3fsbru4aiiHA+5l6USFAV4jng7d8n2v0OHPnBtkxgFuHA8ywNf3e45rr7Yrc0x984EytJjk/6cFfqtcwTcPhFJV0z7LcdfPyzrJePBer0EPY7hl+HJiTpMIRrSa2aUxkiqv/eHyJ7X8E6doBGB1F4WxkliIvu0KRcROCsyYXIgJiA3vD9NZSww= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: abf22dc4-8d60-4312-f54c-08d64884ab73 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Nov 2018 09:53:16.8108 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB5570 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:53:21 -0000 PiBXaGF0IEkgYW0gdmVyeSBjb25jZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQgaXMgdGhhdCB3ZSBhcmUgZm9jdXNlZCBv biB0aGUgd3JvbmcgcHJvYmxlbS4gV2UgZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSBhIHByb2JsZW0gZmxvb2RpbmcgYSBs YXJnZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgTFNQcyBvbiBhIHNpbmdsZSBpbnRlcmZhY2UuDQoNClRoZSBmYWN0IHRo YXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgdW5kb2N1bWVudGVkIGtub3dsZWRnZSB0aGF0IGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgY29udHJh ZGljdHMgZXN0YWJsaXNoZWQgc3RhbmRhcmRzIHRoYXQgaXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IGZvciBzY2FsYWJs ZSBvcGVyYXRpb25zIGltcGxpZXMgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBpbmRlZWQgYSBwcm9ibGVtLg0KDQpH Vj4gSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIFRvbnkuIE1heWJlIHRoZSBJU0lTb1RDUCBkcmFmdCBpcyBhZGRyZXNz aW5nIHRoZSB3cm9uZyBwcm9ibGVtLCBidXQgdGhlIFdHIHNob3VsZCBlaXRoZXIgZXhwbGFpbiBv ciBzaG91bGQgbm90IHVzZSB1bmRvY3VtZW50ZWQga25vd2xlZGdlIGFzIGFyZ3VtZW50LiBVbmRv Y3VtZW50ZWQgaXMgdW5kb2N1bWVudGVkLiBVbmRvY3VtZW50ZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaXMgbm90 IGEgbm9ybWF0aXZlIHBvc2l0aW9uIHRvIHNheSAib25seSB0aGUgaGFwcHkgZmV3IGtub3csIGFu ZCB3ZSBhcmUgbm90IGV4cGxhaW5pbmciLiBUaGF0IHNlZW1zIG5vdCBhIG5pY2UgYW5kIGZyaWVu ZGx5IGFuZCBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBwb3NpdGlvbiB0byBkZWZlbmQuIFRoZSBhdXRob3JzIG9mICJk cmFmdC1oc21pdC1sc3ItaXNpcy1mbG9vZGluZy1vdmVyLXRjcC0wMCIgIHRyaWVkIHRvIGRlbGl2 ZXIgYW4gZWR1Y2F0ZWQgb2JqZWN0aXZlIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIGFuZCBleHBsYW5hdGlvbiB3aHkg dGhlcmUgaXMgYW4gaXNzdWUgd2l0aCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBzdGFuZGFyZCBiZWhhdmlvciwgYW5k IHNvZmFyIEkgZGlkIG5vdCByZWNlaXZlIGFueSBpbmRpY2F0aW9uIGF0IGFsbCwgd2hhdCBpcyB3 cm9uZyBvciBpbmNvcnJlY3Qgd2l0aCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnRlZCBpc3N1ZXMgaW4gdGhlIGRyYWZ0 LWhzbWl0LWxzci1pc2lzLWZsb29kaW5nLW92ZXItdGNwLTAwIGRyYWZ0LiANCg0KRy8NCg0KLS0t LS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExzciA8bHNyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiB0b255LmxpQHRvbnkubGkNClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciA4 LCAyMDE4IDA0OjQwDQpUbzogTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIDxnaW5zYmVyZ0BjaXNjby5jb20+DQpDYzog bHNyQGlldGYub3JnOyBIZW5rIFNtaXQgPGhod3NtaXRAeHM0YWxsLm5sPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6 IFtMc3JdIFRlYXNpbmcgdXMgd2l0aCBzZWNyZXRzDQoNCg0KTGVzLA0KDQo+IEkgYW0gbm90ICJ0 ZWFzaW5nIi4NCj4gSSBhbHNvIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgaXMgbXVjaCBvZiBhIHNlY3JldC4N Cj4gDQo+IEkgYW0gcHJldHR5IHN1cmUgZXhwZXJpZW5jZWQgaW1wbGVtZW50ZXJzIGtub3cgd2hh dCBJIGFtIHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQuDQo+IChCVFcsIEkgaW5jbHVkZSB5b3UgaW4gdGhhdCBncm91 cC4gOi0pICkNCg0KDQpPbmdvaW5nIHVuZG9jdW1lbnRlZCBrbm93bGVkZ2UgaXMgd2hvbGx5IGly cmVsZXZhbnQgd2hlbiB3cml0aW5nIHN0YW5kYXJkcy4gIFRoZXJl4oCZcyBzaW1wbHkgbm90aGlu ZyB0byByZWZlcmVuY2UgYW5kIHRodXMgYSB0ZWFzZS4NCg0KSXTigJlzIHRydWUgdGhhdCB0aGVy ZSBpcyBubyBvYmxpZ2F0aW9uIHRvIGRvY3VtZW50IHRoaXMga25vd2xlZGdlLCBidXQgYXQgdGhl IHNhbWUgdGltZSwgdGhhdCBrbm93bGVkZ2UgY2Fubm90IGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gcHJlLWVtcHQgYWx0 ZXJuYXRpdmUgc29sdXRpb25zLg0KDQoNCj4gV2hhdCBJIGFtIHZlcnkgY29uY2VybmVkIGFib3V0 IGlzIHRoYXQgd2UgYXJlIGZvY3VzZWQgb24gdGhlIHdyb25nIHByb2JsZW0uIFdlIGRvbid0IGhh dmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIGZsb29kaW5nIGEgbGFyZ2UgbnVtYmVyIG9mIExTUHMgb24gYSBzaW5nbGUg aW50ZXJmYWNlLg0KDQpUaGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIHVuZG9jdW1lbnRlZCBrbm93bGVk Z2UgdGhhdCBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IGNvbnRyYWRpY3RzIGVzdGFibGlzaGVkIHN0YW5kYXJkcyB0aGF0 IGlzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSBmb3Igc2NhbGFibGUgb3BlcmF0aW9ucyBpbXBsaWVzIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUg aXMgaW5kZWVkIGEgcHJvYmxlbS4NCg0KVG9ueQ0KDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpMc3IgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpMc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHNyDQo= From nobody Mon Nov 12 05:56:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458971274D0; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 05:56:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.87.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154203096524.4318.18326552498552665331@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 05:56:05 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-01.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 13:56:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IGP Flexible Algorithm Authors : Peter Psenak Shraddha Hegde Clarence Filsfils Ketan Talaulikar Arkadiy Gulko Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-01.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-11-12 Abstract: IGP protocols traditionally compute best paths over the network based on the IGP metric assigned to the links. Many network deployments use RSVP-TE based or Segment Routing based Traffic Engineering to enforce traffic over a path that is computed using different metrics or constraints than the shortest IGP path. This document proposes a solution that allows IGPs themselves to compute constraint based paths over the network. This document also specifies a way of using Segment Routing Prefix-SIDs to steer packets along the constraint- based paths. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 12 08:47:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F4184130E0E for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 08:47:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5yrmkZZpLrcA for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 08:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE017130DCB for ; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r6sm19149185pgk.91.2018.11.12.09.13.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:13:45 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:13:44 -0800 Cc: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> To: Les Ginsberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:13:49 -0000 Les, > Discussion of bypassing the ISO 10589 flooding pacing timer was done = in public many years ago when sub-second convergence was introduced. > Here is one public paper: >=20 > = https://inl.info.ucl.ac.be/publications/achieving-sub-second-igp-convergen= ce-.html >=20 > There are also multiple vendor specific configuration guides which = discuss tuning LSP pacing for fast convergence - please consult your = favorite vendor's documentation links (not my place to share such = links). >=20 > No doubt others can find other public references. Thank you for the reference, that=E2=80=99s helpful. =20 Are you aware of the standards status of this document vs ISO 10589? It seems to me that unless there=E2=80=99s some document on the = standards track that the average developer might not comply with it. Tony From nobody Mon Nov 12 09:44:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2BA130DE2 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:44:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CIu70vmwUoPu for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B46D130DBE for ; 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d="scan'208";a="262384759" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 12 Nov 2018 17:44:28 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wACHiSEL001388 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:44:28 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:44:27 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 11:44:27 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Teasing us with secrets Thread-Index: AQHUdw8OBM/yX9Djp0WvtiBUc0Pqo6VFNMpAgABrMwCABr55AIAAbiIA//+iZiA= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:44:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5a37bb28572b4a59bf184fd99c41e07f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.115.123] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:48:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c128-v6sm1098398pfg.97.2018.11.12.09.48.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:48:33 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <5a37bb28572b4a59bf184fd99c41e07f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:48:31 -0800 Cc: Henk Smit , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> <5a37bb28572b4a59bf184fd99c41e07f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> To: Les Ginsberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:48:41 -0000 Les, As you=E2=80=99ve said in person, following the LSP transmission and = re-transmission timer requirements is one of the first things to go. Yes, updating the RFC with all of the other learnings would be one way = forward. Tony > On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Tony - >=20 > AFAIK no one has suggested or is planning to update/modify a standard. >=20 > This falls into a category of standard deviations that was initially = documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3719 . > If the WG feels this is important enough perhaps the best thing to do = is update that RFC. >=20 > I would however like us to agree that the subject of this thread is = inappropriate. :-) >=20 > Les >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tony Li On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li >> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:14 AM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> Cc: Henk Smit ; lsr@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Teasing us with secrets >>=20 >>=20 >> Les, >>=20 >>> Discussion of bypassing the ISO 10589 flooding pacing timer was done = in >> public many years ago when sub-second convergence was introduced. >>> Here is one public paper: >>>=20 >>> https://inl.info.ucl.ac.be/publications/achieving-sub-second-igp- >> convergence-.html >>>=20 >>> There are also multiple vendor specific configuration guides which = discuss >> tuning LSP pacing for fast convergence - please consult your favorite = vendor's >> documentation links (not my place to share such links). >>>=20 >>> No doubt others can find other public references. >>=20 >>=20 >> Thank you for the reference, that=E2=80=99s helpful. >>=20 >> Are you aware of the standards status of this document vs ISO 10589? >>=20 >> It seems to me that unless there=E2=80=99s some document on the = standards track >> that the average developer might not comply with it. >>=20 >> Tony >=20 From nobody Mon Nov 12 10:29:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C633A130E65 for ; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:28:54 +0000 From: "Yutianpeng (Tim)" To: "tony.li@tony.li" , Les Ginsberg CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , Henk Smit Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets Thread-Index: AQHUeq9wik2byycsoUq4cUPoKAKJ46VManqAgAAEu2A= Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:28:53 +0000 Message-ID: <35FF0D51C8DAB54B95B0426331F984FF520A3CE8@lhreml523-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> <5a37bb28572b4a59bf184fd99c41e07f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.126.98] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:29:04 -0000 SGksDQpQZXJzb25hbGx5LCBJIGJlbGlldmUgbm93IHdlIHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIG1vcmUgYmVzdCBw cmFjdGljZXMgYW5kIHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBjb21wYXJpbmcgd2l0aCAyMDA0Lg0KQWxzbyBp dCB3b3J0aCBvbmNlIHVwZGF0ZSB3aGVuIHNlZ21lbnQgcm91dGluZyBjb21lcy4NClRpbQ0KDQot LS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTHNyIFttYWlsdG86bHNyLWJvdW5jZXNA aWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiB0b255LmxpQHRvbnkubGkNClNlbnQ6IDEyIE5vdmVtYmVy IDIwMTggMTc6NDkNClRvOiBMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgPGdpbnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBs c3JAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IEhlbmsgU21pdCA8aGh3c21pdEB4czRhbGwubmw+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog W0xzcl0gVGVhc2luZyB1cyB3aXRoIHNlY3JldHMNCg0KDQpMZXMsDQoNCkFzIHlvdeKAmXZlIHNh aWQgaW4gcGVyc29uLCBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGhlIExTUCB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gYW5kIHJlLXRyYW5z bWlzc2lvbiB0aW1lciByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgaXMgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBmaXJzdCB0aGluZ3MgdG8g Z28uDQoNClllcywgdXBkYXRpbmcgdGhlIFJGQyB3aXRoIGFsbCBvZiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgbGVhcm5p bmdzIHdvdWxkIGJlIG9uZSB3YXkgZm9yd2FyZC4NCg0KVG9ueQ0KDQoNCj4gT24gTm92IDEyLCAy MDE4LCBhdCA5OjQ0IEFNLCBMZXMgR2luc2JlcmcgKGdpbnNiZXJnKSA8Z2luc2JlcmdAY2lzY28u Y29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IFRvbnkgLQ0KPiANCj4gQUZBSUsgbm8gb25lIGhhcyBzdWdnZXN0 ZWQgb3IgaXMgcGxhbm5pbmcgdG8gdXBkYXRlL21vZGlmeSBhIHN0YW5kYXJkLg0KPiANCj4gVGhp cyBmYWxscyBpbnRvIGEgY2F0ZWdvcnkgIG9mIHN0YW5kYXJkIGRldmlhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCB3YXMg aW5pdGlhbGx5IGRvY3VtZW50ZWQgIGluIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9yZmMz NzE5IC4NCj4gSWYgdGhlIFdHIGZlZWxzIHRoaXMgaXMgaW1wb3J0YW50IGVub3VnaCBwZXJoYXBz IHRoZSBiZXN0IHRoaW5nIHRvIGRvIGlzIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGF0IFJGQy4NCj4gDQo+IEkgd291bGQg aG93ZXZlciBsaWtlIHVzIHRvIGFncmVlIHRoYXQgdGhlIHN1YmplY3Qgb2YgdGhpcyB0aHJlYWQg aXMgDQo+IGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUuIDotKQ0KPiANCj4gICBMZXMNCj4gDQo+IA0KPj4gLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4+IEZyb206IFRvbnkgTGkgPHRvbnkxYXRob21lQGdtYWls LmNvbT4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIHRvbnkubGlAdG9ueS5saQ0KPj4gU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBOb3Zl bWJlciAxMiwgMjAxOCA5OjE0IEFNDQo+PiBUbzogTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVyZykgPGdp bnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4NCj4+IENjOiBIZW5rIFNtaXQgPGhod3NtaXRAeHM0YWxsLm5sPjsg bHNyQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogVGVhc2luZyB1cyB3aXRoIHNlY3JldHMNCj4+ IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBMZXMsDQo+PiANCj4+PiBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIGJ5cGFzc2luZyB0aGUgSVNP IDEwNTg5IGZsb29kaW5nIHBhY2luZyB0aW1lciB3YXMgZG9uZSANCj4+PiBpbg0KPj4gcHVibGlj IG1hbnkgeWVhcnMgYWdvIHdoZW4gc3ViLXNlY29uZCBjb252ZXJnZW5jZSB3YXMgaW50cm9kdWNl ZC4NCj4+PiBIZXJlIGlzIG9uZSBwdWJsaWMgcGFwZXI6DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly9pbmwu aW5mby51Y2wuYWMuYmUvcHVibGljYXRpb25zL2FjaGlldmluZy1zdWItc2Vjb25kLWlncC0NCj4+ IGNvbnZlcmdlbmNlLS5odG1sDQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gVGhlcmUgYXJlIGFsc28gbXVsdGlwbGUgdmVu ZG9yIHNwZWNpZmljIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gZ3VpZGVzIHdoaWNoIA0KPj4+IGRpc2N1c3MNCj4+ IHR1bmluZyBMU1AgcGFjaW5nIGZvciBmYXN0IGNvbnZlcmdlbmNlIC0gcGxlYXNlIGNvbnN1bHQg eW91ciBmYXZvcml0ZSANCj4+IHZlbmRvcidzIGRvY3VtZW50YXRpb24gbGlua3MgKG5vdCBteSBw bGFjZSB0byBzaGFyZSBzdWNoIGxpbmtzKS4NCj4+PiANCj4+PiBObyBkb3VidCBvdGhlcnMgY2Fu IGZpbmQgb3RoZXIgcHVibGljIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMuDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhhbmsgeW91IGZv ciB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlLCB0aGF04oCZcyBoZWxwZnVsLg0KPj4gDQo+PiBBcmUgeW91IGF3YXJl IG9mIHRoZSBzdGFuZGFyZHMgc3RhdHVzIG9mIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgdnMgSVNPIDEwNTg5Pw0K Pj4gDQo+PiBJdCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0aGF0IHVubGVzcyB0aGVyZeKAmXMgc29tZSBkb2N1bWVu dCBvbiB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmRzIA0KPj4gdHJhY2sgdGhhdCB0aGUgYXZlcmFnZSBkZXZlbG9wZXIg bWlnaHQgbm90IGNvbXBseSB3aXRoIGl0Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBUb255DQo+IA0KDQpfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KTHNyIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K THNyQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xzcg0K From nobody Mon Nov 12 10:35:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B57130E04 for ; 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Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:35:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8C41CC22-2350-446F-9755-0AB1A6CE55EB@tony.li> <42003bf67cf6a6f5f2735bf867f8f1ef@xs4all.nl> <6255e2641d37460da22755c236d0f7bc@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9f869bf4488f460baa46d7a81431afb5@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <9106B076-F4E9-4CF2-B8E3-63188914AE93@tony.li> <306c10ac128d4f989f1ff5126b4ba6f2@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <769B70E1-D35F-4D44-B3A1-E10D872F0388@tony.li> <56563956-ACB8-41CA-A50D-578C36D7ADFD@tony.li> <5a37bb28572b4a59bf184fd99c41e07f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:35:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org, hhwsmit@xs4all.nl Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cbcd87057a7bf6e6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Teasing us with secrets X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:35:28 -0000 --000000000000cbcd87057a7bf6e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IETF seems to be doing great job in defining protocols and their extensions. It doesn't do that great job in defining the dynamics of protocols and their recommended behavior. That's called a "vendor's secret sauce". This thread seems to be a good example of that. In BGP there was similar discussions on number of timers which BIPs (best implementation practices) are well known to limited circle of folks. Sometimes instead of such timers different safety checks are implemented under the hood. Take BGP MRAI as example ... some implementations do it one way some completely other and claim our MRAI is 0. But when asked "Do you always generate bgp update immediately" -- you hear "Oh NO !" Draft written by Paul to make it easy to implement for those from outside the circle did not go far in spite of becoming IDR WG doc: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-mrai-dep-04 Here we have a proposal to replace part of that sauce with TCP and maybe QUIC in a backwards compatible fashion to allow for more food diversity. Yes it is a burden for existing chefs to now have to handle one more in/out channel, but let's realize that if we keep status quo alternative solutions to running IGPs may be winning more markets ... Kind regards, Robert. On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:48 PM wrote: > > Les, > > As you=E2=80=99ve said in person, following the LSP transmission and > re-transmission timer requirements is one of the first things to go. > > Yes, updating the RFC with all of the other learnings would be one way > forward. > > Tony > > > > On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > > > Tony - > > > > AFAIK no one has suggested or is planning to update/modify a standard. > > > > This falls into a category of standard deviations that was initially > documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3719 . > > If the WG feels this is important enough perhaps the best thing to do i= s > update that RFC. > > > > I would however like us to agree that the subject of this thread is > inappropriate. :-) > > > > Les > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tony Li On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > >> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:14 AM > >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > >> Cc: Henk Smit ; lsr@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: Teasing us with secrets > >> > >> > >> Les, > >> > >>> Discussion of bypassing the ISO 10589 flooding pacing timer was done = in > >> public many years ago when sub-second convergence was introduced. > >>> Here is one public paper: > >>> > >>> https://inl.info.ucl.ac.be/publications/achieving-sub-second-igp- > >> convergence-.html > >>> > >>> There are also multiple vendor specific configuration guides which > discuss > >> tuning LSP pacing for fast convergence - please consult your favorite > vendor's > >> documentation links (not my place to share such links). > >>> > >>> No doubt others can find other public references. > >> > >> > >> Thank you for the reference, that=E2=80=99s helpful. > >> > >> Are you aware of the standards status of this document vs ISO 10589? > >> > >> It seems to me that unless there=E2=80=99s some document on the standa= rds track > >> that the average developer might not comply with it. > >> > >> Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000cbcd87057a7bf6e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IETF seems to be doin= g great job in defining protocols and their extensions. It doesn't do t= hat great job in defining the dynamics of protocols and their recommended b= ehavior. That's called a "vendor's secret sauce".=C2=A0

This thread seems to be a good example of that.=C2= =A0

In BGP there was similar discussions on number= of timers which BIPs (best implementation practices) are well known to lim= ited circle of folks.=C2=A0 Sometimes instead of such timers different safe= ty checks are implemented under the hood. Take BGP MRAI as example ... some= implementations do it one way some completely other and claim our MRAI is = 0. But when asked "Do you always generate bgp update immediately"= -- you hear "Oh NO !"

Draft written by = Paul to make it easy to implement for those from outside the circle did not= go far in spite of becoming IDR WG doc:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet= f-idr-mrai-dep-04

Here we have a proposal to r= eplace part of that sauce with TCP and maybe QUIC in a backwards compatible= fashion to allow for more food diversity. Yes it is a burden for existing = chefs to now have to handle one more in/out channel, but let's realize = that if we keep status quo alternative solutions to running IGPs may be win= ning more markets ...=C2=A0

Kind regards,
Rober= t.


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 6:48 PM <to= ny.li@tony.li> wrote:

Les,

As you=E2=80=99ve said in person, following the LSP transmission and re-tra= nsmission timer requirements is one of the first things to go.

Yes, updating the RFC with all of the other learnings would be one way forw= ard.

Tony


> On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote= :
>
> Tony -
>
> AFAIK no one has suggested or is planning to update/modify a standard.=
>
> This falls into a category=C2=A0 of standard deviations that was initi= ally documented=C2=A0 in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3719 = .
> If the WG feels this is important enough perhaps the best thing to do = is update that RFC.
>
> I would however like us to agree that the subject of this thread is in= appropriate. :-)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 9:14 AM
>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>> Cc: Henk Smit <hhwsmit@xs4all.nl>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: Teasing us with secrets
>>
>>
>> Les,
>>
>>> Discussion of bypassing the ISO 10589 flooding pacing timer wa= s done in
>> public many years ago when sub-second convergence was introduced.<= br> >>> Here is one public paper:
>>>
>>> https://inl.info.ucl.a= c.be/publications/achieving-sub-second-igp-
>> convergence-.html
>>>
>>> There are also multiple vendor specific configuration guides w= hich discuss
>> tuning LSP pacing for fast convergence - please consult your favor= ite vendor's
>> documentation links (not my place to share such links).
>>>
>>> No doubt others can find other public references.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the reference, that=E2=80=99s helpful.
>>
>> Are you aware of the standards status of this document vs ISO 1058= 9?
>>
>> It seems to me that unless there=E2=80=99s some document on the st= andards track
>> that the average developer might not comply with it.
>>
>> Tony
>

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--000000000000cbcd87057a7bf6e6-- From nobody Mon Nov 12 15:06:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FA3130DD0; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:06:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efA-PV0WlcQO; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C732D12785F; 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12 Nov 2018 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wACN6h4Z004727 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 23:06:44 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:06:43 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:06:43 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" , "Dean Bogdanovic" , "kk@employees.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Call for "YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol" - draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AQHUetxg8StCs1phcE+LikBJ6PVW5A== Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 23:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <6A7DB50A-D42F-4FDC-B4E0-CBDBF1B7C207@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RB/iz0wKn4rRrOEYJKPjRKLtBThaEtWgKFGYMFA4cnY=; b=lhQ2l6kP8y0GEw3ej5+VwUj4igJjFES+u3RjlGAPNW3hyYma6F/QmoYCQWQG1hfPiq Jl3QqZjpDud+mNDDyN90TVDP2AcypA81OaFRMfiljxOEPS6jtaw77mtwwhV7kuBdK62Z b0TrJKnMG1a1bHQUVJvB6tkIyo+/Q7eJ6gnn57kuBTv79w8GxZP4puCz3DgJTDxTtXDl 8Fch/6/P8w19mGCmqiPCQcLjNw0SR/PsRFH+uEIhoApnG42L2nr3eB0QaGpuVj9Z6uqQ /jt7ZWaFhmZje5ItKAOg2r7BZx79k/thF4CoMHRUN37fSB+u+s6WDD60pz/taSeIgJ7i kPMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLp5hnUUloblIAxvucPPphxHq3liJNzTzMpfyXF4/xBYwgX9ikl JLWb3hC1cZNTJXD+nUJ1xCFmgWBMfzOxEmsPREc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cOa0YlAdfSRiVdIwUMg19Adxw+yaJrN6Sw7KoEJC1ZWl0Id/+xd8IYwQud2xB+Lt0cN0AjKS0arJ0XBIqWKVc= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b30b:: with SMTP id c11-v6mr2337184iof.275.1542070864105; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:01:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6A7DB50A-D42F-4FDC-B4E0-CBDBF1B7C207@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6A7DB50A-D42F-4FDC-B4E0-CBDBF1B7C207@cisco.com> From: Kiran K Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:00:52 -0600 Message-ID: To: acee@cisco.com Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org, ivandean@gmail.com, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000012d89e057a815a28" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 17:07:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol" - draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 01:01:06 -0000 --00000000000012d89e057a815a28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi I'm not aware of any IPRs associated with this document. Thanks Kiran On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 5:06 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors and Contributors, > > > > Please confirm that any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for > full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been > filed. If not, explain why? Each author/contributor should respond > explicitly to this list. > > > > Thanks, > Acee > --00000000000012d89e057a815a28 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
I'm not aware of any IPRs associated with this = document.
Thanks
Kiran


On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 5:06 PM A= cee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:

Authors and Contrib= utors,

=C2=A0

Please confirm that= any and all appropriate IPR disclosures required for full conformance with= the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79 have already been filed. If not, expla= in why? Each author/contributor should respond explicitly to this list.

=C2=A0

Thanks,
Acee

--00000000000012d89e057a815a28-- From nobody Tue Nov 13 11:08:24 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3C0130E2E for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:08:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z8mkLhjHQEeu for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com 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Lindem (acee)" To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: "Restart Signaling for IS-IS" - draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis Thread-Index: AQHUe4XUghGsoUHRl06DFeAGPn2Z1Q== Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:19:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CAB36FB72D69410BBF8B5DBC54FF2742ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] "Restart Signaling for IS-IS" - draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:19:46 -0000 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--_000_CAB36FB72D69410BBF8B5DBC54FF2742ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Nov 13 11:39:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63FD3128CB7 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:39:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSZEBk_QABYy for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 796B5128B14 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 11:39:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3553; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542137987; x=1543347587; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=3/H0aAlFYeRzVgDLi9Q49tOrD9yeerFVxqIAQeqGZgQ=; b=mMBsJ4koKVuISOJSE4T9G4Wwe4eHR1l7+2iz/vQtWu9zb/bbWuUWUdJM nxY64HC7TwAYPXyJJ/nV+ixIeHJ4bUubFyxCAijRMCI5FWwmrdfqHQfkX Js5J5oMuvgt+TSZF1w1yFQPKpj+7KWWRgRdUuTybr8Jf/i5FEBHbUJEpC A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,229,1539648000"; d="scan'208,217";a="470631557" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Nov 2018 19:39:46 +0000 Received: from [10.19.43.167] (sjc-pauwells-nitro6.cisco.com [10.19.43.167]) (authenticated bits=0) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id wADJdj8h028397 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:39:46 GMT To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Cc: "mike@mshand.org.uk" References: From: Paul Wells Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 13:39:40 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F8185E9AC1F3BD4081731ECB" Content-Language: en-US X-Authenticated-User: pauwells X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.19.43.167, sjc-pauwells-nitro6.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for draft for "Restart Signaling for IS-IS" - draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:39:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F8185E9AC1F3BD4081731ECB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Acee, I'm not aware of any IPR for this draft. Regards, Paul On 11/13/18 1:08 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > Les, Paul, Mike, > > In preparation for the requested WG last call, I’d ask again if you > are aware of any IPR. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --------------F8185E9AC1F3BD4081731ECB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Acee,

I'm not aware of any IPR for this draft.

Regards,
Paul


On 11/13/18 1:08 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:

Les, Paul, Mike,

 

In preparation for the requested WG last call, I’d ask again if you are aware of any IPR.

 

Thanks,

Acee


_______________________________________________
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:15:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Wt2oCtLwd3B9OTPrhyzdl7W24u+qxb1MI68s2BKUYS4=; b=tc8SboX55Fz2a6tVlF59myxzRe+0NsdHYSkkAzsz/OQ04SOpv5PJRQXs6HzNDQeiyP 15RNY2EBMComY6or+VmwXH+vZNe0ZbOqgbMNPvAUVXEVc5mdFeCdlar/cu9+aZt/nTji xg9iNABzu+q+a7oO+0qiqxVJNU4+AWoBKZ5zbZf8OSneS0o9nS6yonhSjH7dFcEnN/ah fmIpfEOupRGsPESIvcd/McK4Ja7apz7Spm7v/dxjxYuD+v+QHQzqQy3bS4F05ZT15Tzk Riz4Y7JNktqAZZV5HGVIvSSNyzLrxi/atAoVLxhjjNc/FvzjjuyvalJJa4bYoz39CBTQ 77WA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Wt2oCtLwd3B9OTPrhyzdl7W24u+qxb1MI68s2BKUYS4=; b=k0UmInWZnkhNRJzKypocWX/d16s6E0S0xZbinx51dz5B4vYoITXJBafUwHEDpTNtx3 7Dw4e2Hqq6MqA8udGd195qLlrp4p+jmUi1JrVM4RGzsr/R90FtIs5NfPqOTD5RsE/pGK 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lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:15:55 -0000 --0000000000001b37cd057a990785 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/support On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 16:53 Qin Wu wrote: > I support this work as one of coauthors. > > > > -Qin > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *=E4=BB= =A3=E8=A1=A8 *Acee Lindem (acee) > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8814=E6=97= =A5 6:11 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* lsr@ietf.org > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP s= ecurity > capability support in the PCE discovery - > draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 > > > > At the LSR WG meeting in Bangkok, there was general agreement that we > should adopt this draft given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. Plea= se > indicate your support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, Wednesday Novemb= er > 26th, 2018. Note the authors may refresh the draft to address some > comments prior to that time. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000001b37cd057a990785 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/support
On Tue, Nov 13,= 2018 at 16:53 Qin Wu <bill.wu@hua= wei.com> wrote:

I support this work as one of coauthors.

=C2=A0

-Qin

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
= =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5 6:11
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr@ietf= .org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capabili= ty support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-suppo= rt-00

=C2=A0

At t= he LSR WG meeting in Bangkok, there was general agreement that we should ad= opt this draft given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. Please indicate= your support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, Wednesday November 26th, 2018. Note the authors may refr= esh the draft to address some comments prior to that time.

<= /u>=C2=A0

<= /u>=C2=A0

Than= ks,

Acee=

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--0000000000001b37cd057a990785-- From nobody Tue Nov 13 21:49:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2DF12872C for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:49:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qB0m-Dy4MsL3 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6467D126BED for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 21:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4CC3AF58E44A1 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:49:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMI405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.143) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:49:29 +0000 Received: from DGGEMI532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.74]) by dggemi405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.143]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:49:17 +0800 From: Mahendra Singh Negi To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VOxBZQ Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:49:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57FC1130DD1 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id f12-v6so10898141iog.0 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:16:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xsMKyFx8QwK36D/qvC1ZLUU9XWY93+G4x355dpEMzjo=; b=TDcF/hzWDXWrUIrIQi9Sq1mLY0dfmlAtdPZIJcxMh9h+0VS4l1bJJFnLHh+2LrEhet GEa6wP+MUnPTL5+52f9NBVJdapHs/2YeWST2IpNsojOII9Z877HU6Zz3d+8fD34Ac6um mG1d+CjORMxIsjnDL2nms0JMfSPQ3eZqcjBFDwLT8UrjPVhwl4IVlYuW6VbZQECCoN/l 4CkIGs2G+RRcihHXBWV0GtuKAdlekttvcIBL6Kylv98BqZxVJfH/dNL4V80w1yNiCp4K bv3RVWoQaHcqGfn1iCf5g4a+0oA2HOerHX/TCS2w8CvL4tmNRrwLY9F1yeLIiX7M/ip1 TwGQ== 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In-Reply-To: From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 11:46:11 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 06:16:25 -0000 Support WG Adoption. Thanks! Dhruv (co-author) On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 3:41 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > At the LSR WG meeting in Bangkok, there was general agreement that we sho= uld adopt this draft given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. Please in= dicate your support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, Wednesday November 2= 6th, 2018. Note the authors may refresh the draft to address some comments = prior to that time. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Tue Nov 13 22:25:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE53130E02 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:25:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ICM3pw4KRim8 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (m21397.mail.qiye.163.com [223.252.213.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED86130DE1 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2018 22:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m21397.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 14649143DE5; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:25:45 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:25:43 +0800 Message-ID: <009001d47be2$dff0e9c0$9fd2bd40$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0091_01D47C25.EE1429C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VOzbvg Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kIGBQJHllBS1VLV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWS1ZQUlXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6PSI6Hjo4OjkVDTkaTg1WHDIR GRkwCjxVSlVKTk9JSkxNTE9OSENMVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWVdZCAFZQUNIQ0s3Bg++ X-HM-Tid: 0a6710e5a6c07f6bkuuk14649143de5 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24gUG9sbCBmb3IgSUdQIGV4?= =?utf-8?q?tension_for_PCEP_security_capability_support_in_the_PCE_discove?= =?utf-8?q?ry_-_draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 06:25:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01D47C25.EE1429C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/Support. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5 6:11 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr@ietf.org =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP = security capability support in the PCE discovery - = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 =20 At the LSR WG meeting in Bangkok, there was general agreement that we = should adopt this draft given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. = Please indicate your support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, = Wednesday November 26th, 2018. Note the authors may refresh the draft to = address some comments prior to that time.=20 =20 =20 Thanks, Acee=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01D47C25.EE1429C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes/Support.

 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB= =B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem = (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80= =81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8814=E6=97=A5 = 6:11
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: = lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for = IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery = - = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00

 

At the LSR WG meeting in = Bangkok, there was general agreement that we should adopt this draft = given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. Please indicate your = support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, Wednesday November = 26th, 2018. Note the authors may refresh the draft to address = some comments prior to that time.

 

 

Thanks,

Acee =

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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wkgTVfkCV6gG; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 03:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4793012958B; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 03:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.86.154]) by tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id wAEBnhhN020185; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:49:43 +0900 Received: from vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CD46391AB; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:49:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.87.134]) by vc2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C3E639166; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:49:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [129.60.13.98]) by jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7AC3940073C; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:49:43 +0900 (JST) From: Tomonori Takeda Message-ID: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:49:19 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CC-Mail-RelayStamp: 1 To: rtg-ads@ietf.org Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Tomonori Takeda X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 11:49:53 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda Review Date: Nov 14th, 2018 IETF LC End Date: Nov 16th, 2018 Intended Status: Proposed Standard o Summary: This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be considered prior to publication. o Comments: This document defines OSPFv3 extensions for Segment Routing with MPLS data plane. This document is mostly ready, but further clarification would be good for better understanding of the protocol definitions (see below). This document is well aligned with a related document draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions. o Major Issues: None o Minor Issues: 1) Flooding Scope of SR-Algorithm TLV In Section 4.1, it says: "If the SR-Algorithm TLV appears in multiple OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSAs that have different flooding scopes, the SR-Algorithm TLV in the OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSA with the area-scoped flooding scope MUST be used." At the same time, it say: "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, area- scoped flooding is REQUIRED." So, does it mean a) a router MUST use area-scoped flooding for sending, and b) a router MUST support different flooding scopes for receiving? 2) LSA Type for OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV In Section 5, it defines IA-Flag. It is not clear how this relates to LSA type. Do we simply ignore LSA type being used to carry OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV? 3) Meaning of SID/Index/Label in Prefix SID Sub-TLV In Section 6, it says: "SID/Index/Label: According to the V and L flags, it contains either: A 32-bit index defining the offset in the SID/Label space advertised by this router. A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmost bits are used for encoding the label value." I understand how V Flag relates to this selection, but it is not clear how L flag relates to this selection. o Nits None Thanks, Tomonori Takeda From nobody Wed Nov 14 05:13:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75617130E4C; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:13:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcCOwOpF3vY0; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D8CB130DDF; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:13:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3856; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542201221; x=1543410821; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NPePeieDElFYhGbvIhzgleBxr7ieXX8kIgvFVQ/DNA8=; b=FHFwzkwU8x/l4qdcW7+lgifmAl0kWis260UozjLzEvk4Mfjz9UaB111H iZx/zPDYvtX2wtQ35E2JHDABAOWZGFLnSxEZ0T65dwzVUytMr0enYjzL5 1XmZK70yJraMH19RnRZ8Plwpw1ZYty3PkTMDXQHzNj5UXntRnZZRgd9pP g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AkAABWHuxb/xbLJq1iGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBVAIBAQEBCwGCaU8hEicEg3SId40pmTANI4RJAoNpNwoNAQM?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQJtHAyFOgEBAQMBIw8BBUABEAsUBAICBRYLAgIJAwIBAgFFBgEMAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BAYMegXkID6dpgSEOhUGEbIELixGBQD+BEYMSgxALAoRlglcClSOKOwmGd4o?= =?us-ascii?q?rGIFYTIQ5gnyEMYJrjSyKVYFbIoFVMxoIGxWDKAiCHheIXoU/PgMxjWYBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,232,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8043383" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Nov 2018 13:13:38 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.43] ([10.147.24.43]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAEDDbBi027290; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:13:38 GMT Message-ID: <5BEC1F81.9080103@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:13:37 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tomonori Takeda , rtg-ads@ietf.org CC: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org References: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.43, [10.147.24.43] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:13:44 -0000 Hi Tomonori, please see inline: On 14/11/18 12:49 , Tomonori Takeda wrote: > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related > drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and > sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide > assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing > Directorate, please see ​ > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF > Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through > discussion or by updating the draft. > > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt > Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda > Review Date: Nov 14th, 2018 > IETF LC End Date: Nov 16th, 2018 > Intended Status: Proposed Standard > > o Summary: > This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that > should be considered prior to publication. > > o Comments: > This document defines OSPFv3 extensions for Segment Routing with MPLS > data plane. > > This document is mostly ready, but further clarification would be good > for better understanding of the protocol definitions (see below). > > This document is well aligned with a related document > draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions. > > o Major Issues: > None > > o Minor Issues: > 1) Flooding Scope of SR-Algorithm TLV > In Section 4.1, it says: > > "If the SR-Algorithm TLV appears in > multiple OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSAs that have different > flooding scopes, the SR-Algorithm TLV in the OSPFv3 Router > Information Opaque LSA with the area-scoped flooding scope MUST be > used." > > At the same time, it say: > > "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, area- > scoped flooding is REQUIRED." > > So, does it mean a) a router MUST use area-scoped flooding for sending, > and no. It says that that for the purpose of the SR-Algorithm TLV area scope is required. That means it cannot be link-scope, but it can be autonomous-system scope, because that is also covering the area-scope. b) a router MUST support different flooding scopes for receiving? SR-Algorithm TLV is sub-TLV of Router Information Opaque LSA, which can be flooded in various flooding scopes - link, area, autonomous system. The flooding scope is not specific to SR-Algorithm TLV, it is generic one applicable to Router Information Opaque LSA. > > 2) LSA Type for OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV > In Section 5, it defines IA-Flag. It is not clear how this relates to > LSA type. Do we simply ignore LSA type being used to carry OSPFv3 > Extended Prefix Range TLV? I think we can remove this bit, given that we know the route type from the LSA type itself. This was taken from the OSPFv2, where the Extended Prefix LSA does not carry the type. Will remove. > > 3) Meaning of SID/Index/Label in Prefix SID Sub-TLV > In Section 6, it says: > > "SID/Index/Label: According to the V and L flags, it contains > either: > > A 32-bit index defining the offset in the SID/Label space > advertised by this router. > > A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmost bits are used for > encoding the label value." > > I understand how V Flag relates to this selection, but it is not clear > how L flag relates to this selection. L flag is not relevant, I will remove the reference to it. Please let me know if you are fine with my responses. thanks, Peter > > o Nits > None > > > Thanks, > Tomonori Takeda > > . > From nobody Wed Nov 14 05:24:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AF7130DF0; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:24:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wbcZgqocbmhz; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw1.uni-kl.de (mailgw1.uni-kl.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:120::220]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD866130E3F; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.fg-networking.de (mail.fg-networking.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:cd01::23]) by mailgw1.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id wAEDOJGR006911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:24:19 +0100 Received: from login.fg-networking.de (login.fg-networking.de [131.246.197.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.fg-networking.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C12EB2007A; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:24:16 +0100 (CET) Received: by login.fg-networking.de (Postfix, from userid 11002) id 75E05186; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:24:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:24:16 +0100 From: Erik Auerswald To: Peter Psenak Cc: Tomonori Takeda , rtg-ads@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181114132416.js5len3zao4bitkg@fg-networking.de> References: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> <5BEC1F81.9080103@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5BEC1F81.9080103@cisco.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:24:47 -0000 Hi Peter, please see inline (I have kept just the relevant part): On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 02:13:37PM +0100, Peter Psenak wrote: > On 14/11/18 12:49 , Tomonori Takeda wrote: > > [...] > > 1) Flooding Scope of SR-Algorithm TLV > > In Section 4.1, it says: > > > > "If the SR-Algorithm TLV appears in > > multiple OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSAs that have different > > flooding scopes, the SR-Algorithm TLV in the OSPFv3 Router > > Information Opaque LSA with the area-scoped flooding scope MUST be > > used." > > > > At the same time, it say: > > > > "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, area- > > scoped flooding is REQUIRED." > > > > So, does it mean a) a router MUST use area-scoped flooding for sending, > > and > > no. It says that that for the purpose of the SR-Algorithm TLV area scope is > required. That means it cannot be link-scope, but it can be > autonomous-system scope, because that is also covering the area-scope. May I suggest to add the words "at least" to make the wording more explicit? "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, at least area-scoped flooding is REQUIRED." Thanks, Erik From nobody Wed Nov 14 06:00:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDC5130E8E; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:59:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TJMlqVpvNmMP; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5C37130E7B; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 05:59:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1356; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542203990; x=1543413590; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Sbr9QIUSAUDwOAB8Jwzjgq3IGZDjNcGCCVwIAMkjg/4=; b=Cm14iMCjnL4D+r62QsQuiYRgXYnY8/lr+x4ZjqfRoX0RDIXKvk4N+Myz zfQaIM1qwppUKzUb5LKRcVWRlCCLYtHwIOXx++5kQfzpoXKAX6IQDehh/ W3XZlzLa3u1cJAf5RTwDHB6uICLNrlrhi4CgiGbFuT061eWP+PGbwbSai Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DKAgAAKexb/xbLJq1iHAEBAQQBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQGBZYM5IRKNFo0pmTANhGwCg2k4FgEDAQECAQECbSiFOgEBAQMBOEABEAs?= =?us-ascii?q?YCRYPCQMCAQIBRQYNAQcBAYUXCKkoDoVBhGuMHIFAP4ERgxKKWQKPTJASCZE?= =?us-ascii?q?iGIFYhQWCfIccmAGBXCGBVTMaCBsVgyiCT44LPgOOFwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,232,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8041348" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Nov 2018 13:59:47 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.43] ([10.147.24.43]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAEDxlYg003057; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:59:47 GMT Message-ID: <5BEC2A52.7050207@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 14:59:46 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Auerswald CC: Tomonori Takeda , rtg-ads@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org References: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> <5BEC1F81.9080103@cisco.com> <20181114132416.js5len3zao4bitkg@fg-networking.de> In-Reply-To: <20181114132416.js5len3zao4bitkg@fg-networking.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.43, [10.147.24.43] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 13:59:53 -0000 Hi Erik, On 14/11/18 14:24 , Erik Auerswald wrote: > Hi Peter, > > please see inline (I have kept just the relevant part): > > On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 02:13:37PM +0100, Peter Psenak wrote: >> On 14/11/18 12:49 , Tomonori Takeda wrote: >>> [...] >>> 1) Flooding Scope of SR-Algorithm TLV >>> In Section 4.1, it says: >>> >>> "If the SR-Algorithm TLV appears in >>> multiple OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSAs that have different >>> flooding scopes, the SR-Algorithm TLV in the OSPFv3 Router >>> Information Opaque LSA with the area-scoped flooding scope MUST be >>> used." >>> >>> At the same time, it say: >>> >>> "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, area- >>> scoped flooding is REQUIRED." >>> >>> So, does it mean a) a router MUST use area-scoped flooding for sending, >>> and >> >> no. It says that that for the purpose of the SR-Algorithm TLV area scope is >> required. That means it cannot be link-scope, but it can be >> autonomous-system scope, because that is also covering the area-scope. > > May I suggest to add the words "at least" to make the wording more > explicit? > > "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, at least > area-scoped flooding is REQUIRED." sure, will do that. thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Erik > . > From mike@mshand.org.uk Wed Nov 14 09:08:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D58DA12D4EE for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mshand-org-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5COXBcBUzFKE for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C8FF128A6E for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id p4so8963406wrt.7 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mshand-org-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=xFWdvIDPX5mwdS/2W1pIyDSG1npK7h7v5ZTLE72DTjg=; b=YCi/oKwGKMX/3QRjT8+4EdccpbrCIsIckZgWA5Ag6/QfyxecNJ6TPgwnsigrAcR/Wk rkGyeaWemuLB0RGR1yj9a6haNTje0gnDhOQTrQisD7JCFTCBOi8KkLclKCiiPpr9wzsR mfTyrtZ4XSNIyT5nP0F6bDe+bVklY92YNUL7W4bNpc9JUxP/VlXOaxvVTsx8OV3kFhjb icpWZdc3kG02MHUPOn7kxpqtin5BLTKAavJcscvwMxGZ9OCmelms/2cNGqb/dv9HBZ1e XxaLCZkvBLthd2mT/cKGlTa8cp5HWXZBf663SREK5yuyf3iD1IU37Fj/c0OtKvkNmjlY LBmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=xFWdvIDPX5mwdS/2W1pIyDSG1npK7h7v5ZTLE72DTjg=; b=N2MlyJy7uxEtUaaqX3a/NNB9TzMYaVmEWyzmSy3JgHJXM1WlpPRBaYf7TqRdEadbQZ wklFHtyilSkMITovhYNpDKa3l2XxTH+PgdLG4uE4jxwIOlCLV7yCC6unBjvTxnkADy+2 VJUNkrafSOAvbEhVa0zkZuUXAMuLvyHq/WzTGXZ0NcgU5qRandcM+5OuXjsMSahU3UBA /2OtvevIEi1JWk6Shq7apxFH9YlWKi1e09gBtbEVeXyNjIAi/FhrFyxEIA7YSz5go7rF R57Snk9DzIca4FKP61pQOoiU/ZlN5o7jlQALnq7w6Ffwxi/VvS/CBHGQlkZhOtGOg3SZ 1DXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKVTslZxsgoifWsCoyFF42DBNtR+O39w6W0UHPQ6bUK+FiNMGIu 6e9b6YKkUojJEJQ9reWO5Piqx0Tj2Bg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cnsKc7EyI/6joLRaQJxHKDeEcot+qzxvGVLowCl3w9Hsz2zSFKtOVHe7lur+9J3f4Z1d3fuA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4bd2:: with SMTP id l18-v6mr2780713wrt.168.1542215313352; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.67] (host86-165-134-174.range86-165.btcentralplus.com. [86.165.134.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a18-v6sm24418276wrt.79.2018.11.14.09.08.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Nov 2018 09:08:32 -0800 (PST) To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" References: From: Mike Shand Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 17:08:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6DD1E079E57CDC4C4513363F" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for draft for "Restart Signaling for IS-IS" - draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 17:10:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6DD1E079E57CDC4C4513363F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Acee,     I'm not aware of any relevant IPR.     Mike On 13-Nov-18 7:08 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > Les, Paul, Mike, > > In preparation for the requested WG last call, I’d ask again if you > are aware of any IPR. > > Thanks, > > Acee > --------------6DD1E079E57CDC4C4513363F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Acee,
    I'm not aware of any relevant IPR.
    Mike

On 13-Nov-18 7:08 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:

Les, Paul, Mike,

 

In preparation for the requested WG last call, I’d ask again if you are aware of any IPR.

 

Thanks,

Acee


--------------6DD1E079E57CDC4C4513363F-- From nobody Wed Nov 14 12:01:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AD8130F3E; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:00:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 284Uoq4k3c98; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com 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security capability support in the PCE discovery" Thread-Index: AQHUfFS2PDtN4E7S7E6qQHfZ2u+b7w== Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:00:37 +0000 Message-ID: <187CBC34-EDA1-4512-A3BC-AC2BE9CD10C5@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_187CBC34EDA14512A3BCAC2BE9CD10C5ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.155, xch-rtp-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:01:01 -0000 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security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) Thread-Index: AQHUfFTwoBXbshwY8UaVaZkPeid/AA== Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:02:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B560A25F8B3F4279BB0B75D847D385C6ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.151, xch-rtp-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:02:34 -0000 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NYQeYceQaOmH; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CE68130EFE; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id A436BB8132F; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, lsr@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20181114204411.A436BB8132F@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8491_on_Signaling_Maximum_SID_Depth_=28MSD?= =?utf-8?q?=29_Using_IS-IS?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:44:44 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8491 Title: Signaling Maximum SID Depth (MSD) Using IS-IS Author: J. Tantsura, U. Chunduri, S. Aldrin, L. Ginsberg Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: November 2018 Mailbox: jefftant.ietf@gmail.com, uma.chunduri@huawei.com, aldrin.ietf@gmail.com, ginsberg@cisco.com Pages: 10 Characters: 20269 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-19.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8491 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8491 This document defines a way for an Intermediate System to Intermediate System (IS-IS) router to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular Segment ID (SID) stack can be supported in a given network. This document only defines one type of MSD: Base MPLS Imposition. However, it defines an encoding that can support other MSD types. This document focuses on MSD use in a network that is Segment Routing (SR) enabled, but MSD may also be useful when SR is not enabled. This document is a product of the Link State Routing Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Wed Nov 14 16:00:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E09130DC9; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:00:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rmp6wMpKl4iA; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55B81294D0; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 16:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from vc1.ecl.ntt.co.jp (vc1.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.86.153]) by tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id wAENxeI6028905; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:59:40 +0900 Received: from vc1.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vc1.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56814EA7577; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:59:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.87.134]) by vc1.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB7FEA751B; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:59:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [129.60.13.98]) by jcms-pop21.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 450F0400AB9; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:59:40 +0900 (JST) References: <42c3e097-9789-49d4-cf15-c3713f4a1c0b@lab.ntt.co.jp> <5BEC1F81.9080103@cisco.com> <20181114132416.js5len3zao4bitkg@fg-networking.de> <5BEC2A52.7050207@cisco.com> From: Tomonori Takeda Message-ID: <96563328-db52-0c31-78ea-2ff46436311e@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:59:17 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5BEC2A52.7050207@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CC-Mail-RelayStamp: 1 To: Peter Psenak , Erik Auerswald Cc: rtg-ads@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Tomonori Takeda X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 00:00:09 -0000 Hi Peter, Eric, Thanks. Proposed changes look good to me. Tomonori On 2018/11/14 22:59, Peter Psenak wrote: > Hi Erik, > > On 14/11/18 14:24 , Erik Auerswald wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> >> please see inline (I have kept just the relevant part): >> >> On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 02:13:37PM +0100, Peter Psenak wrote: >>> On 14/11/18 12:49 , Tomonori Takeda wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> 1) Flooding Scope of SR-Algorithm TLV >>>> In Section 4.1, it says: >>>> >>>>     "If the SR-Algorithm TLV appears in >>>>      multiple OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSAs that have different >>>>      flooding scopes, the SR-Algorithm TLV in the OSPFv3 Router >>>>      Information Opaque LSA with the area-scoped flooding scope MUST be >>>>      used." >>>> >>>> At the same time, it say: >>>> >>>>     "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, area- >>>>      scoped flooding is REQUIRED." >>>> >>>> So, does it mean a) a router MUST use area-scoped flooding for sending, >>>> and >>> >>> no. It says that that for the purpose of the SR-Algorithm TLV area >>> scope is >>> required. That means it cannot be link-scope, but it can be >>> autonomous-system scope, because that is also covering the area-scope. >> >> May I suggest to add the words "at least" to make the wording more >> explicit? >> >>      "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV advertisement, at least >>       area-scoped flooding is REQUIRED." > > sure, will do that. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Thanks, >> Erik >> . >> > > > -- Tomonori Takeda NTT Network Service Systems Labs. +81-422-59-7092 From nobody Wed Nov 14 18:29:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECCDE130E26 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 18:29:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Dt6YgOYKJwq for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 18:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D711130E1C for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 18:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B32548040 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 03:29:19 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 36078440210; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 03:29:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 03:29:19 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 02:29:25 -0000 Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, 7722) ? My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea to customers first, but when implementations became available, customers really did not want to implement it because of the overloading of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management complexity. Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any later work like flex-Algos ? If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, i wonder if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a topology and those remain viable: I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. Thanks! Toerless From nobody Wed Nov 14 20:41:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8E4128A5C for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:41:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8iF9V6PykxzV for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE1B01271FF for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 20:41:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2748; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542256868; x=1543466468; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=BoW3CRmhV8GVTlobbF7QzZIrj/jchDELCRNJ8HqvM1E=; b=ctvT+Z9bvlHDFnLhDOm/qvQfyXBTlGvBtM0vjZHmdMMUC1wnCjS2thAQ 2FseRWItvz8o53tAQhuwBeAztxIK/dL+r4OvvIqO0D0Xxfd7WYgkpnytM +3sIbAV4uT0GaHIWWAwRB641xz3QRwGgQZG5hIHNv1/uHuMcOr5pOd5df I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AEAABV+Oxb/5ldJa1iGgEBAQEBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEHAgEBAQGBUQUBAQEBCwGBVS5mgQInCowGi3qCDZc2FIFmCwEBGAuESQK?= =?us-ascii?q?DSSI0DQ0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU6AQEBBAEBODQEEwQCAQgOAwQBAR8QJwsdCAI?= =?us-ascii?q?EARIIgxqCAQ+pWoogBYwFF4FAP4QjgxsBAQIBgSsBEgGFegKJNZYqCQKGdoo?= =?us-ascii?q?jIIFYjx2JXYNPii8CERSBJh84ZHFwFTuCbIInF4hehT5BMQGLWYEfgR8BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,235,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="482207320" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2018 04:41:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wAF4f7wK007789 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Nov 2018 04:41:07 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 22:41:07 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 22:41:06 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Toerless Eckert , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q Thread-Index: AQHUfIsQfFyL7MO/SkqsJ4uRxzsGkaVQP6Hw Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 04:41:06 +0000 Message-ID: <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.46.44] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 04:41:11 -0000 Toerless - It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mention say= anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the information in various topology specific forwarding structures are used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are associated with the corresponding topology." RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that "could= " be used to determine on what topology a packet should be forwarded. RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in Sect= ion 3: "It is assumed, but outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is able to choose which topology to use for each packet" IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively define) an= y relationship between DSCP and MT. ??? Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > To: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q >=20 > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, 7722) ? >=20 > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > customers really did not want to implement it because of the overloading > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management > complexity. >=20 > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any > later work like flex-Algos ? >=20 > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, i w= onder > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > topology and those remain viable: >=20 > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. >=20 > Thanks! > Toerless >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Wed Nov 14 23:21:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF2612872C for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 23:21:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6lj93OZAzwf for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 23:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E522127B92 for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2018 23:21:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1586; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542266516; x=1543476116; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=l8uIL8mrADaHAc72cAERGPUDv1ZerEDUjiKCV7FtJrY=; b=JSDC4GceHfDzpbMD3eQYfkO287C7HS4E+V19s5X5eJaAPtWJ6Eyl7AFu MmwneHdHtKtP2tfdNJs+ZsbwAN3BbI0ee/Q8TJKjS48SBnXJDgkVnvoZY /ubRLF83hs+mE5I9CC3FQHCHZ/YZJedmGYqyt6e6ecyyb4lmDO2OKaBM+ 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CpAAC7He1b/xbLJq1iHAEBAQQBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQGBVAQBAQsBgmlPIRInjG+NKJkwDRgLhEkCg2w3Cg0BAwEBAgEBAm0cDIU?= =?us-ascii?q?6AQEBAwEBATY2ChELDgoJFg8JAwIBAgEVMAYBDAYCAQGDHoF5CA+pJg6FQYR?= =?us-ascii?q?eBYwcgUA/hCODGwEBhzwCiTWGF5ATCZEjGIFYiAGHHIldjiWBWyKBVTMaCBs?= =?us-ascii?q?VO4JsgicXiF6FPz4DMI4YAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,235,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8060026" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2018 07:21:54 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.43] ([10.147.24.43]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAF7Lrt4022430; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:21:53 GMT Message-ID: <5BED1E91.7030509@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 08:21:53 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Toerless Eckert , lsr@ietf.org References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.43, [10.147.24.43] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:21:58 -0000 Toerless, On 15/11/18 03:29 , Toerless Eckert wrote: > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, 7722) ? > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > customers really did not want to implement it because of the overloading > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management complexity. > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any > later work like flex-Algos ? no, but if someone wanted to do so it can. draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo does not say anything about DHCP. thanks, Peter > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, i wonder > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > topology and those remain viable: > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > Thanks! > Toerless > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > . > From nobody Thu Nov 15 05:16:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD7BF12D4EC for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 05:16:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.291 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.291 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2PMUFlq1zJU2 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 05:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 839D812D4E7 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 05:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42whh85M3MzCr4Y for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:16:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42whh83VPpzDq82 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:16:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.193.71.118] (10.168.234.6) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.31.10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:16:08 +0100 To: References: From: Organization: Orange Message-ID: <9733_1542287768_5BED7198_9733_182_1_16a11aed-c9b3-cc15-0a2f-7afd84024780@orange.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:16:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: [10.168.234.6] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 13:16:12 -0000 Hi all, PCE chair hat on, I need to rectify the statement below: at this stage, PCE, as a WG, has not reach any consensus on this I-D, which has only been discussed within the LSR WG. There may be individuals involved in both WGs, but that is not a PCE WG consensus. However, I suggest that the PCE WG's members (BCC'd) share their view on this poll using the LSR mailig list. Thanks, Julien On 13/11/2018 23:10, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > At the LSR WG meeting in Bangkok, there was general agreement that we > should adopt this draft given that the PCE WG believes it is useful. > Please indicate your support or objection prior to 12:00 AM UT, > Wednesday November 26^th , 2018. Note the authors may refresh the > draft to address some comments prior to that time. > >   > >   > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Nov 15 06:48:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A86C12D4EF for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2lmi1W37NwUW for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 06:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AF6312785F for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 06:48:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=772; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542293295; x=1543502895; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject: content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZgKwiBL5+PorzWQyX8V2WuB6wb0/7+itNPzE/ZWOE+c=; b=Id3L/792K1gxYUgUoVMQAbG1iglHSgz2BdWiijRIL+IT1NOPx9Yjcs7Y Z+cdvAeR06padQlDUoaw3UtZ3cBvmna9J3qwxzETVsqNuoznH5V9P76J4 dgelF3mHhaHN2S+iTX0eCqV7MrGQSqurPhUu+ePzTNxVbKrr6aIjdrjC+ U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D6AAA/hu1b/xbLJq1iHQEBBQEHBQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BVAUBCwGDWRKNFqZaCgOIXjcGDQEDAQECAQECbR0LhXsvET0WGAMCAQIBSw0?= =?us-ascii?q?IAQGFH6lGDoVBhGWMHIFAP458Ao9OkBYJkSQYiVqHHIJ0lROBXCIngS4zGgg?= =?us-ascii?q?bFYMokFo+A45lAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,236,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8011755" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2018 14:48:12 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.43] ([10.147.24.43]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAFEmAsc025789 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:48:11 GMT Message-ID: <5BED872A.7090201@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:48:10 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.43, [10.147.24.43] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions - small change X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 14:48:18 -0000 Hi, as a part of the RtgDir review we got a comment about the usage of the IA bit in the OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV (Section 5). We defined this bit for OSPFv2 originally. In OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Range TLV is carried as a top level TLV of the Extended Prefix Opaque LSA, which is not specific to any route-type, so we needed a mechanism to prevent redundant flooding of Prefix Range TLVs between areas. In OSPFv3 however, we are advertising the Extended Prefix Range TLV in the type specific LSAs, so we can use standard rules to prevent the "looping" of advertisements. So we want to remove the IA bit from the flags field in OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV. I would like to know whether anyone has any objection. thanks, Peter From nobody Thu Nov 15 07:01:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F5C12D4EF for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.291 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.291 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oSnNfd12CoO7 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F11BB130DC5 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42wl1D5Wjqz2yh8 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:01:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42wl1D4lfBz3wcR for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:01:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.193.71.118] (10.168.234.2) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup (10.114.31.10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:01:04 +0100 To: References: From: Organization: Orange Message-ID: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:00:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Originating-IP: [10.168.234.2] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:01:08 -0000 Hi, Contributor hat on, I take the opportunity mentioned by Acee to highlight some of the issues in the current version: - The I-D teaches multiple time about RFC 5088 and 5089 (while 8253 is only mentioned in the introduction): the discussed mechanism has been used multiple times, there is no need to elaborate so much (see section 3.1.1 of RFC 8306 for example); - Section 3 includes the PCE-CAP-FLAGS sub-TLV definition: having a given specification in multiples places brings no value but may create discrepancies, please stick to the references to the aforementioned RFCs; - Section 3 tries to list the existing flag allocations: these are inaccurate (e.g. RFC 6006 has been obsoleted by RFC 8306), incomplete (e.g. RFC 8231 is missing) and inappropriate (this is the role of the IANA registry, not of every new I-D!); - Contrary to the written text, the I-D does not "extend" anything, it requests bit allocation from an existing registry; the IANA section (7) is thus key: please make it point to the relevant registry, namely "PCE Capability Flags" managed within the "OSPFv2 Parameters" (https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv2-parameters/ospfv2-parameters.xml#ospfv2-parameters-14). Thanks, Julien On 13/11/2018 23:10, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Note the authors may refresh the draft to address some comments prior > to that time. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Nov 15 07:17:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BB1130DCE; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:17:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fORQYR1A9E6i; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 07:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFBA512D4EF; 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d="scan'208";a="479277677" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2018 15:17:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wAFFHsLE032454 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:17:54 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 10:17:53 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 10:17:53 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VRRJ+A//+w54A= Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:17:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> In-Reply-To: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:22:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 11E75440210; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:22:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:22:23 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:22:29 -0000 Thanks, Les, Peter So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP recommendation to not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this would not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still any customer demand for this option. Cheers Toerless P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetNet flow is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows could be 6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be routed differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would just result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a dead horse (DSCP MTR). On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Toerless - > > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. > > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mention say anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? > > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > information in various topology specific forwarding structures are > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are associated > with the corresponding topology." > > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that "could" be used to determine on what topology a packet should be forwarded. > > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in Section 3: > > "It is assumed, but > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" > > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively define) any relationship between DSCP and MT. > > ??? > > Les > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, 7722) ? > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > > customers really did not want to implement it because of the overloading > > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management > > complexity. > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any > > later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, i wonder > > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR > > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and > > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, > > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > > topology and those remain viable: > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > Thanks! > > Toerless > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Nov 15 15:28:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8653E130E19 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:28:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4jrkW2JlsOAr for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x733.google.com (mail-qk1-x733.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::733]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4C13129619 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x733.google.com with SMTP id n12so34665328qkh.11 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Wg5/O9GV0PTR0aqQfuOrgCYudY9aiTJZFQRjenqxi0o=; b=HqteKOKoBaVJK0CcTGK42Vku03GI1Z/CUrykN9GAbStSMPMHi/sthRIE3cRfUWhmOA XV8Ew/N4yYsBnqTywrLkI+XLuZYZrwaUq5f26TodkTYVYesNs3aavqDLIQXgyTITY7CP sCudY/X1nx2Isocsf57+VbSWqT/5H4ZSnpwUTXKtZqGzAMvHPemH+YEmxS46dyNWhK/3 GzSvcopDBL31bFVuYqJ3BMcrjo80T32rBibsITrw8hZ6P9N9kEh+/6orFeJ6eg2becP/ vjfvcPUCMWf9/FnHut8EaPO6cuI9jQorM6JtxN0r3nFXm9oGergjCUlyqhTgp3oA3Fx2 MFQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Wg5/O9GV0PTR0aqQfuOrgCYudY9aiTJZFQRjenqxi0o=; b=rdDzU5Mj76f5qwhwxUmetBaVpgNjgrURw1HDDdyP9XsmoKlWHNPFCmuvR03x83Yxiv AtidJp240cukbyjxb36IYuw8WkMOUuwsG0S2zVb+nGf/VrVcu7Bp5nKyZBxMBuiI2e6w cISNGNJF1sXIn9b70eVx4vGA95xVD+6Og3kEvAy/KXgQg2ZLBUuLCSqBAF8qY8fNx+TA t8AT+fNJ+f2fXsMH3ucTY897ccplWOWhMHjuVfs2sP2XejXnV/LpBU72moFc96fEgNce J63QTedoIbZWQ36Rm2xn148yFz18+Hl+enZeZJtaEyPd3mUd9kvsZJH1ImD4tepqJ7Xn FCBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLWXv6ThZnQg/kDOWpCVyBut98EYyFkq785fwzmryPZohQSgwgD YAMZdVOZCnWv0yz5ImBYfq+mAoH2rNFncoE1/fecvg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eNWYP9rKLwZv1yi/BugTrEcC+7yd0mao4vIv+sMphMCgF2z0ieN1PpgopCDMsy6YLM0XtE91EJ2DZJ7svEWTQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7598:: with SMTP id s24mr8174720qtq.6.1542324517628; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 15:28:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:28:27 +0100 Message-ID: To: tte@cs.fau.de Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000008294057abc69c3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:28:41 -0000 --000000000000008294057abc69c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Toerless, Please observe that DSCP based steering may be very useful vehicle for end hosts/applications influencing how their packets are transported. So instead of closing that option I recommend we at least take a good look at what alternative mechanism exists. And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that this is not there and it should never be. Cheers, R. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:22 AM Toerless Eckert wrote: > > Thanks, Les, Peter > > So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP > recommendation to > not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this would > not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be > participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still any > customer demand for this option. > > Cheers > Toerless > > P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetNet flow > is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows could be > 6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be routed > differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would just > result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a dead > horse (DSCP MTR). > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > Toerless - > > > > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. > > > > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mention > say anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? > > > > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > > information in various topology specific forwarding structures are > > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are associated > > with the corresponding topology." > > > > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that > "could" be used to determine on what topology a packet should be forwarded. > > > > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in > Section 3: > > > > "It is assumed, but > > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is > > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" > > > > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively define) > any relationship between DSCP and MT. > > > > ??? > > > > Les > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, > 7722) ? > > > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > > > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > > > customers really did not want to implement it because of the > overloading > > > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management > > > complexity. > > > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any > > > later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, > i wonder > > > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR > > > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and > > > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, > > > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > > > topology and those remain viable: > > > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Toerless > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > -- > --- > tte@cs.fau.de > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000008294057abc69c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Toerless,

Please observe that DSCP = based steering may be very useful vehicle for end hosts/applications influe= ncing how their packets are transported.=C2=A0

So = instead of closing that option I recommend we at least take a good look at = what alternative mechanism exists.=C2=A0

And btw I= read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define algorithm w= hich takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that this is not th= ere and it should never be.=C2=A0

Cheers,
R.



On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:22 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:

Thanks, Les, Peter

So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP recommendation= to
not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this would
not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be
participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still any
customer demand for this option.

Cheers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Toerless

P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetNet flow is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows could be
6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be routed
differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would just
result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a dead
horse (DSCP MTR).

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Toerless -
>
> It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email.
>
> What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mentio= n say anything normative about DSCP and topologies??
>
> RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: >
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8<= /a>
> "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 information in various topology specific forwarding struc= tures are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are= associated
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with the corresponding topology."
>
> RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that &= quot;could" be used to determine on what topology a packet should be f= orwarded.
>
> RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in= Section 3:
>
> "It is assumed, but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 outside the scope of this specification, that the network= layer is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 able to choose which topology to use for each packet"= ;
>
> IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively defin= e) any relationship between DSCP and MT.
>
> ???
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM
> > To: lsr@ietf.or= g
> > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q
> >
> > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of pa= th,
> > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120,= 7722) ?
> >
> > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good ide= a
> > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > > customers really did not want to implement it because of the over= loading
> > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management
> > complexity.
> >
> > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced = in any
> > later work like flex-Algos ?
> >
> > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad i= dea, i wonder
> > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document fro= m LSR
> > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic = and
> > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RF= Cs,
> > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a<= br> > > topology and those remain viable:
> >
> > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be ch= anged
> > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is suppo= rted
> > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Toerless
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--
---
tte@cs.fau.de

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--000000000000008294057abc69c3-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 16:07:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC7E130DED for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:07:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7-zUQHycTkm5 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:07:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C053126CB6 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7285254800B; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 01:07:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 66AE5440210; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 01:07:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 01:07:08 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Robert Raszuk Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:07:16 -0000 On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:28:27AM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hey Toerless, > > Please observe that DSCP based steering may be very useful vehicle for end > hosts/applications influencing how their packets are transported. > > So instead of closing that option I recommend we at least take a good look > at what alternative mechanism exists. I think back when DSCP was selected for MTR in implementations, it was done so due to the absence of better options. But as i mentioned, the overloading of DSCP between QoS and routing made it (in my memory) undesirable to operators. And when designing new solutions with new QoS like in DetNet its yet a similar possible problem. If we hopefully do not need to find solutions for IPv4, i would rather like to see something like what SR did, e.g.: IPv6 header extension. These are AFAIK now also easily settable from linux programs (ok., maybe not yet from javascript). Or much easier of course the existing IPv6 multi-addressing solutions where hosts can also lern semntics of these addresses. And map to diffeent flex-topologies instead of just multi-homing exit points (which i think was the main use-case so far). > And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define > algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that > this is not there and it should never be. Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation. Cheers Toerless > Cheers, > R. > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:22 AM Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > > Thanks, Les, Peter > > > > So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP > > recommendation to > > not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this would > > not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be > > participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still any > > customer demand for this option. > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > > > P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetNet flow > > is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows could be > > 6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be routed > > differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would just > > result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a dead > > horse (DSCP MTR). > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > > > Toerless - > > > > > > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. > > > > > > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mention > > say anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? > > > > > > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > > > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > > > information in various topology specific forwarding structures are > > > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are associated > > > with the corresponding topology." > > > > > > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that > > "could" be used to determine on what topology a packet should be forwarded. > > > > > > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in > > Section 3: > > > > > > "It is assumed, but > > > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is > > > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" > > > > > > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively define) > > any relationship between DSCP and MT. > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > > > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, > > 7722) ? > > > > > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > > > > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > > > > customers really did not want to implement it because of the > > overloading > > > > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management > > > > complexity. > > > > > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in any > > > > later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, > > i wonder > > > > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from LSR > > > > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic and > > > > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three RFCs, > > > > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > > > > topology and those remain viable: > > > > > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > > > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > > > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Toerless > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Lsr mailing list > > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > -- > > --- > > tte@cs.fau.de > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Nov 15 16:25:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B2D130E3A for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:25:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rk2LLC0r41MS for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58DB0128B14 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id q1so34835000qkf.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:25:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y+Cx6TnGPGxc4yiRigCkiI29qPFf9hw7IBGVePG7EHs=; b=X1tVtJ+sSIYNcR6IqVSh7IGiYckIhJV67KUc+U/f4ZsfD3TuKWAI5f48dKzDRtp/gJ OY3f2jwbXKkW8tJoUQTVIN5jUKycuP1UqIV2wpJ5DZKP6YCAaVgLzddYsGgU3Tz945u5 +P39VyH05+hMWZXg2b1SEoaEe2RAxcMMJCcgqXCzidcuOuOR3MnyM1MVGQXYRm0mBkE/ zJKiH3Jz87RV0DWAmNav992BqOfDwCaBqTmed6jKqCgMNVMd1dmECxjKYjd5Mob9WDuh aMWiwxkQu9rzs2+6ci3Eu7yc71Zibvg1nP8MWEHL2NBVqDaFbpQLdML1/Odvg1oyI9aZ uZaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y+Cx6TnGPGxc4yiRigCkiI29qPFf9hw7IBGVePG7EHs=; b=MeIDVOcTmG89SQmXkmAtEgEk8yGmeKnJm1FAqjqe5I0hUdqT+B6F767Lx7uwov/MBl cOa1n1bOzmofIcJZjouA5H/yVOVYVDFtVnPXa6jFwYPjR+PaMwvwU2nk2PBL+FtUElCQ 6nRZDxLha3cEiZIRgMEVq2lxRPLwzjk5nzomS6k4peJeQVZ6ec6fUg2DNLmZv10/sEC9 S2uMiofOzUH81kCh5ooP0G3KmUJgQ0hwmPI7pxjKiahN8HqXhAJCmSigevekl9gqpYYP qoeHObIkzaSGVy56seyrmopdBgJ0gg0WEUP/LRE60zkUbcKG3zO8CT3uozH0WWOBZyFM MT3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLbN+RhrkElfzFcKCuOgbBkhjnMQ/16TzLdwDJwWu/1oHiYBjbB v8zLNq/r/rAHiXziZGgQ5rsdGWT1mD8E4p8LcfqDwo3ui+E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fO5iGUhdxmR/iCK1HsFLLC9GkXAyuAPtaQKGFdfsFQzoYtw5m5fZNJoN5hWY8bojwaxBJGeIxgCHB8ESTq9vk= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7598:: with SMTP id s24mr8324742qtq.6.1542327906154; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:25:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 01:24:55 +0100 Message-ID: To: tte@cs.fau.de Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f950b5057abd3266" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:25:10 -0000 --000000000000f950b5057abd3266 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > If we hopefully do not need to find solutions for IPv4 Well how much unpopular that may be I would not dismiss IPv4 that quickly yet. I am not sure who do you include under "operators" umbrella, but let's keep in mind that there are enterprise networks where some form of end point based influencing packet paths is desired - yet no mpls, no sr and no even IPv6 running on those end points any time soon. Example: I need to provide dual streaming of identical unicast flows over dis-joined paths between the application servers. Naturally it is internal network so if I enable DSCP based mapping into disjointed topologies (of any form) that solves my issue without any additional state imposed to the apps or to the network. Thx, R. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:07 AM Toerless Eckert wrote: > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:28:27AM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Hey Toerless, > > > > Please observe that DSCP based steering may be very useful vehicle for > end > > hosts/applications influencing how their packets are transported. > > > > So instead of closing that option I recommend we at least take a good > look > > at what alternative mechanism exists. > > I think back when DSCP was selected for MTR in implementations, it was > done so due to the absence of better options. But as i mentioned, the > overloading of DSCP between QoS and routing made it (in my memory) > undesirable to operators. And when designing new solutions with new QoS > like in DetNet its yet a similar possible problem. > > If we hopefully do not need to find solutions for IPv4, i would rather > like to see something like what SR did, e.g.: IPv6 header extension. These > are AFAIK now also easily settable from linux programs (ok., maybe not > yet from javascript). Or much easier of course the existing IPv6 > multi-addressing solutions where hosts can also lern semntics of these > addresses. And map to diffeent flex-topologies instead of just > multi-homing exit points (which i think was the main use-case so far). > > > And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define > > algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that > > this is not there and it should never be. > > Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for > routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify > that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what > Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation. > > Cheers > Toerless > > > Cheers, > > R. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:22 AM Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks, Les, Peter > > > > > > So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP > > > recommendation to > > > not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this would > > > not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be > > > participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still any > > > customer demand for this option. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Toerless > > > > > > P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetNet > flow > > > is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows could be > > > 6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be routed > > > differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would just > > > result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a dead > > > horse (DSCP MTR). > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > > > Toerless - > > > > > > > > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. > > > > > > > > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you > mention > > > say anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? > > > > > > > > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: > > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > > > > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > > > > information in various topology specific forwarding structures are > > > > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are > associated > > > > with the corresponding topology." > > > > > > > > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that > > > "could" be used to determine on what topology a packet should be > forwarded. > > > > > > > > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement > in > > > Section 3: > > > > > > > > "It is assumed, but > > > > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is > > > > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" > > > > > > > > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively > define) > > > any relationship between DSCP and MT. > > > > > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > > > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > > > > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of > path, > > > > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, > > > 7722) ? > > > > > > > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea > > > > > to customers first, but when implementations became available, > > > > > customers really did not want to implement it because of the > > > overloading > > > > > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting management > > > > > complexity. > > > > > > > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced > in any > > > > > later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > > > > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad > idea, > > > i wonder > > > > > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document from > LSR > > > > > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is historic > and > > > > > not recommended anymore and make this an update to above three > RFCs, > > > > > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to select a > > > > > topology and those remain viable: > > > > > > > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be > changed > > > > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is > supported > > > > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > > > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Toerless > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Lsr mailing list > > > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Lsr mailing list > > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > -- > > > --- > > > tte@cs.fau.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > -- > --- > tte@cs.fau.de > --000000000000f950b5057abd3266 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> If we hopefully do not need to fi= nd solutions for IPv4=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Well how much unpopul= ar that may be I would not dismiss IPv4 that quickly yet.=C2=A0

I am not sure who do you include under "operators" umbrel= la, but let's keep in mind that there are enterprise networks where som= e form of end point based=C2=A0 influencing packet paths is desired - yet n= o mpls, no sr and no even IPv6 running on those end points any time soon.= =C2=A0

Example: I need to provide dual streaming o= f identical unicast flows over dis-joined paths between the application ser= vers. Naturally it is internal network so if I enable DSCP based mapping in= to disjointed topologies (of any form) that solves my issue without any add= itional state imposed to the apps or to the network.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.



=


= On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 1:07 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:28:27AM +0100, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Hey Toerless,
>
> Please observe that DSCP based steering may be very useful vehicle for= end
> hosts/applications influencing how their packets are transported.
>
> So instead of closing that option I recommend we at least take a good = look
> at what alternative mechanism exists.

I think back when DSCP was selected for MTR in implementations, it was
done so due to the absence of better options. But as i mentioned, the
overloading of DSCP between QoS and routing made it (in my memory)
undesirable to operators. And when designing new solutions with new QoS
like in DetNet its yet a similar possible problem.

If we hopefully do not need to find solutions for IPv4, i would rather
like to see something like what SR did, e.g.: IPv6 header extension. These<= br> are AFAIK now also easily settable from linux programs (ok., maybe not
yet from javascript). Or much easier of course the existing IPv6
multi-addressing solutions where hosts can also lern semntics of these
addresses. And map to diffeent flex-topologies instead of just
multi-homing exit points (which i think was the main use-case so far).

> And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to defi= ne
> algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement tha= t
> this is not there and it should never be.

Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for
routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what
Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation.

Cheers
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Toerless

> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:22 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks, Les, Peter
> >
> > So... is there any opinion about creating a normative or BCP
> > recommendation to
> > not use DSCP to distinguish topologies/flex-algos ? Mabybe this w= ould
> > not be appropriate for LSR, but TSVWG, but i think it would be > > participants in LSR that would know if there is actually still an= y
> > customer demand for this option.
> >
> > Cheers
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Toerless
> >
> > P.S.: Context of the email is DetNet trying to define what a DetN= et flow
> > is and currently this includes the thinking that DetNet flows cou= ld be
> > 6-tuple flows including DSCP because different DSCP could be rout= ed
> > differently in the network via MTR, and that concept IMHO would j= ust
> > result in making a foal (DetNet) a lot more complex because of a = dead
> > horse (DSCP MTR).
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:41:06AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= wrote:
> > > Toerless -
> > >
> > > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your emai= l.
> > >
> > > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications = you mention
> > say anything normative about DSCP and topologies??
> > >
> > > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the sta= tement:
> > >
> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#se= ction-3.8
> > > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify= how the
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 information in various topology specific forwar= ding structures are
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 used during packet forwarding or how incoming p= ackets are associated
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with the corresponding topology."
> > >
> > > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of someth= ing that
> > "could" be used to determine on what topology a packet = should be forwarded.
> > >
> > > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a st= atement in
> > Section 3:
> > >
> > > "It is assumed, but
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 outside the scope of this specification, that t= he network layer is
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 able to choose which topology to use for each p= acket"
> > >
> > > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normati= vely define)
> > any relationship between DSCP and MT.
> > >
> > > ???
> > >
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert<= br> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM
> > > > To: l= sr@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology select= ion Q
> > > >
> > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selec= tion of path,
> > > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4= 915, 5120,
> > 7722) ?
> > > >
> > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like = a good idea
> > > > to customers first, but when implementations became ava= ilable,
> > > > customers really did not want to implement it because o= f the
> > overloading
> > > > of DSCP between QoS and routing and the resulting manag= ement
> > > > complexity.
> > > >
> > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-i= ntroduced in any
> > > > later work like flex-Algos ?
> > > >
> > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in gener= al a bad idea,
> > i wonder
> > > > if it would be appropriate to have a short normative do= cument from LSR
> > > > defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is= historic and
> > > > not recommended anymore and make this an update to abov= e three RFCs,
> > > > maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to= select a
> > > > topology and those remain viable:
> > > >
> > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFC= s to be changed
> > > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well an= d is supported
> > > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with m= ultiple
> > > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Toerless
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Lsr mailing list
> > > > Lsr@i= etf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l= sr
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lsr mailing list
> > > Lsr@ietf.o= rg
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > tte@cs.fau.de<= /a>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >

--
---
tte@cs.fau.de
--000000000000f950b5057abd3266-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 16:47:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33413130E0F for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i7vBuRcZqovN for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32e.google.com (mail-ot1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F836130E08 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id i20so13400750otl.0 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rob-sh.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bPGhQ2YXXwJFkSqL1exkEf+6FCp4Fwi0m7IsqYREc/8=; b=EndeIKHNBE3QtQRDfnpsRErE4V/V6luG6mgWFprRGJB9ogH1Mu1w7Xiw6WC44xQTLj /plHKi9X4RrM0bQv7xhgVUbjt4pBNBe4WR9Wltt+Oi92lrtyXoSev25pyiM1xVKXkjhg bFjPlr6AUfCyqTAWssSkVLnMkZ2E3N3qY+PGdxwXLEhlmFdYg2kFzvpOkjp+QOjTUGk6 mNW9W6Ij/sYWk2vp9XeOxZafL3Z058YC8+vlbU31QRmvbiBTYdmWIUootWGWitBWHber oD5FlGAFvCeLURXQ3dt4wYCnE/QPZsYQqJR8DdETMeOQD5ckdaviGi7Tzvvdwi7tHiGQ b29A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bPGhQ2YXXwJFkSqL1exkEf+6FCp4Fwi0m7IsqYREc/8=; b=hmwkm1nlq/uJvL80SOoS6k+n0V61yf7OuSY3pjk6rlZK79I1LeEcHESRzPVrD2ckGc 4friP6eCJ2hcPq4z2+Qeh1Lg/ubAi6zhvXgzAwjmt1+XydBcl43QNhJ9uKBN+ppc/Lvz rS4kSw/BodKWNW7WPHubuy0lwxLRYdE6zovpKkiFC5J7Sy/pTQRoHe9WXqcrJFsbGbam rUeU3VQzg8rRlYPvMki9L7VVgJVi+HjDqHbuwYlItvZzdwRUHKj09gddo8amSs7aAPmx OZNW38krpwXpOz6+9HzQlRxCuCYDNPHucF8Y9PEc8RaVA1pyGY+TGTnvaXC7f18OQqa0 HZKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKeoHEwExHZPv34O6UsVRYbJiMIsakP/ap7faN5UjH0AKGLHRij SaLutRYHJK7FRjVnoYgatEXyTA6nHxrqqnXnpFbrGA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5dNjcGoc6yHoeUE5Zh/As2dT1E2bWdanqPcpyE76aT+Mg8dv88K0P80x4umBflfHbevEwlvqtlcb69hvZWQ5x0= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:b8e:: with SMTP id 14mr4794396oth.279.1542329257787; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> In-Reply-To: <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> From: Rob Shakir Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 16:47:26 -0800 Message-ID: To: Toerless Eckert Cc: Robert Raszuk , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000899ae0057abd832c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:47:41 -0000 --000000000000899ae0057abd832c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 16:07 Toerless Eckert wrote: > > And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define > > algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that > > this is not there and it should never be. > > Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for > routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify > that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what > Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation. > A number of networks on which I have worked have used DSCP-based tunnel selection to choose between RSVP-TE LSPs. This essentially is different routing based on DSCP, which seems to be something that you're trying to cover -- is that correct? If so, given that these are running in real networks, I find it hard to conclude that any IETF standard should declare them as failed. r. --000000000000899ae0057abd832c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, 15 Nov= 2018 at 16:07 Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.= fau.de> wrote:
> And btw = I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define
> algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement tha= t
> this is not there and it should never be.

Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for
routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what
Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation.
=

A number of networks on which I have worked have used D= SCP-based tunnel selection to choose between RSVP-TE LSPs. This essentially= is different routing based on DSCP, which seems to be something that you&#= 39;re trying to cover -- is that correct?

If so, g= iven that these are running in real networks, I find it hard to conclude th= at any IETF standard should declare them as failed.

r.


--000000000000899ae0057abd832c-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 19:54:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3DB130E69 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 19:54:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g_xR8VjG9qnd for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 19:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317351298C5 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 19:54:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 498EAB648FC83 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 03:54:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 03:54:08 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.171]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:54:03 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VQarGAgAFc6gA= Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 03:54:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> In-Reply-To: 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F06130E69; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 20:18:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wu9vaxZe06od; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 20:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37A13124D68; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 20:18:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2C9B0828E7A54; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 04:18:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 04:18:27 +0000 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.172]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 12:18:20 +0800 From: wangzitao To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) Thread-Index: AdR9Yz21zGsCAgKvRj2FP0CTrSh6Cg== Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 04:18:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2CDF89FBDGGEMM527MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected 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[183.89.24.193]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s9sm21550305pgl.88.2018.11.15.20.47.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Nov 2018 20:47:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1E6285A8-B74B-423F-9544-4CB5E27BB595 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16B92) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:47:55 +0700 Cc: Toerless Eckert , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Robert Raszuk , lsr@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> To: Rob Shakir Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 04:48:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail-1E6285A8-B74B-423F-9544-4CB5E27BB595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Rob I have seen number of MBH networks using DSCP to change forwarding - AKA PBR= . The question is really - what is here to standardize? RSVP-TE use cases mentioned by Rob (CBTS/PBTS in IOS realm) are classical ex= amples of Policy Based Routing and as such are subject to implementation det= ails, not standardization. Am I missing something? Regards, Jeff > On Nov 16, 2018, at 07:47, Rob Shakir wrote: >=20 >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 16:07 Toerless Eckert wrote: >> > And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define >> > algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that= >> > this is not there and it should never be. >>=20 >> Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for >> routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify >> that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what >> Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation.=20 >=20 > A number of networks on which I have worked have used DSCP-based tunnel se= lection to choose between RSVP-TE LSPs. This essentially is different routin= g based on DSCP, which seems to be something that you're trying to cover -- i= s that correct? >=20 > If so, given that these are running in real networks, I find it hard to co= nclude that any IETF standard should declare them as failed. >=20 > r. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --Apple-Mail-1E6285A8-B74B-423F-9544-4CB5E27BB595 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Rob
I have seen number of MBH networ= ks using DSCP to change forwarding - AKA PBR.

The q= uestion is really - what is here to standardize?

RS= VP-TE use cases mentioned by Rob (CBTS/PBTS in IOS realm) are classical exam= ples of Policy Based Routing and as such are subject to implementation detai= ls, not standardization.

Am I missing something?


Regards,
Jeff=

On Nov 16, 2018, at 07:47, Rob Shakir <<= a href=3D"mailto:rjs@rob.sh">rjs@rob.sh> wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 16:07 Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitat= ion) to define
> algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that=
> this is not there and it should never be.

Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for
routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify
= that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what
Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation.
<= div>
A number of networks on which I have worked have used DSC= P-based tunnel selection to choose between RSVP-TE LSPs. This essentially is= different routing based on DSCP, which seems to be something that you're tr= ying to cover -- is that correct?

If so, given that= these are running in real networks, I find it hard to conclude that any IET= F standard should declare them as failed.

r.
<= div>

________= _______________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/lsr
= --Apple-Mail-1E6285A8-B74B-423F-9544-4CB5E27BB595-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 21:01:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3626128A5C; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 21:01:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aVDkCLuzd8zv; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 21:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4F612777C; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 21:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7DAC91E92DFA6; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:01:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:01:21 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.171]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:01:15 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VQarGAgAAEuYCAAVl0wA== Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:01:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: 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From nobody Thu Nov 15 22:20:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0120A128C65 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:20:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JBPxWV2dRKGi for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9092F12426A for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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[73.158.115.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n23-v6sm51234145pfg.84.2018.11.15.22.55.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:55:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Li Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_082AD131-6348-4533-AAED-C47FB60FFDE3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 22:55:56 -0800 In-Reply-To: <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> Cc: Rob Shakir , Les Ginsberg , Toerless Eckert , Robert Raszuk , lsr@ietf.org To: Jeff Tantsura References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 06:56:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_082AD131-6348-4533-AAED-C47FB60FFDE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura = wrote: >=20 > The question is really - what is here to standardize? There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are = solving problem XYZ. Please don=E2=80=99t break this. Tony --Apple-Mail=_082AD131-6348-4533-AAED-C47FB60FFDE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

The question is really - what is = here to standardize?


There=E2=80=99s a fine = architectural BCP here: this is how we are solving problem XYZ. =  Please don=E2=80=99t break this.

Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_082AD131-6348-4533-AAED-C47FB60FFDE3-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 23:19:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD59130E03 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:19:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SqJsZfHaYHik for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68E14130DC8 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id w19-v6so18823137eds.1 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:19:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DvzHhMU/g23m8rFVck6CSlsW1dbG+VVCL2Np5qZ6lEQ=; b=pWV3FqdRdWRcVOKn5oo8tK4bhHHcJWDOveC3avXVW/tsRHTWVh6DR/zkF5g23LmHSr 8qeB+hqQsFSZzgonxNGmnlDZg0RICTee3mLFqsn98FQe+0EFYMDN38Esy25BAAzdfT5R 86605U5qhio5iVfe3Qfa1BDIIhrtM/Lm4VIobZANrHq+RbmtwGExP31gc+MxGYdXaLAw nIasjTxC01D0KG1m6q4IpBLguGwSMLtGjpBqeHmnsZc2Y80dkuYthMUrgMD6ApAUkEMR B9erSC2yGFg/Sf/ZN0blG1k+6GZ3FP2VSJw00cRSJEvW6O5APNQvqTOZ8kPHW0OqaN5p bXLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DvzHhMU/g23m8rFVck6CSlsW1dbG+VVCL2Np5qZ6lEQ=; b=BqNaddPduzHMbDX2SqrzDWPeO7+TPYpoOjK7PMH8nm076ZoTqM/nvlQSkoz7yQNEvl 5xqT3Zgez/XgcDOr4YpGamO0Mvp+X+2QVnul1XL4oYjFxa8r5PpR6A116Lpy1ikUSjeM R206eORvfbn6w3ZaAli+5Acqo8AdnAzz4qk6UhUAA+2YfxrZTmcbuaQJ32z7pdi8oOQO nrjNiKBa4hdXHo9orMJ8m6kMm4bHpWm0azgbVbFWhc7HgKRBYswbh+w/aS2P25tj1OT6 uLsRiNTDcVXqsod5e4eFZVgIB3TjmWIDG+WGzAzHOSeXubWQKJNEOuo0xWanJRz4LXye ELGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJZGKfnGxDDaFhwv/JGyWOpvQQsFTkxnGHURqXz1LcG5GnFO+Mr RXRKXmcvrorcz/WDaGy4YJvohGMM10jqBEUvyu8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5datDNmaL4ZFFwxYUl0Vxihe9YdN/cgvdironhcBnoueVjU5jJgwclTlv3ZQ8lLsTu9rdj/6mYhvJX8tEzS1XE= X-Received: by 2002:a50:8c21:: with SMTP id p30-v6mr8524049edp.34.1542352741855; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:19:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jeff Tantsura Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:18:50 -0800 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: Rob Shakir , Les Ginsberg , Toerless Eckert , Robert Raszuk , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004bf6b5057ac2fb72" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 07:19:05 -0000 --0000000000004bf6b5057ac2fb72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony, What architecture? PBR is a form of: match DSCP X set next-hop Y needs no interoperability... If someone wants to describe how they use a particular vendor feature to solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the more BCPs - the better. Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process - it was a bad idea back then, hasn=E2=80=99t got any better now... besides - now we have got a toolbox th= at wasn=E2=80=99t available then. Cheers, Jeff On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li wrote: > > > On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > > The question is really - what is here to standardize? > > > > There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are solving= problem > XYZ. Please don=E2=80=99t break this. > > Tony > > --0000000000004bf6b5057ac2fb72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony,

What architecture?
PBR is a form of:
match DSCP X
s= et next-hop Y
needs no interoperability...
If someone wants to descri= be how they use a particular vendor feature to solve a particular problem i= n a BCP, sure, the more BCPs - the better.

Wrt using DSCP in routing= decision process - it was a bad idea back then, hasn=E2=80=99t got any bet= ter now... besides - now we have got a toolbox that wasn=E2=80=99t availabl= e then.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:


On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM= , Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

The question is really - what is here to standardiz= e?


There=E2=80=99s a= fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are solving problem XYZ.=C2=A0= Please don=E2=80=99t break this.

Tony

<= /div>
--0000000000004bf6b5057ac2fb72-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 23:37:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1E2130F08 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:37:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sdMTh5Sqb-OF for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146CD130EF7 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id q1so35980770qkf.13 for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:37:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W2C/mIOkT/isJfhqXvwJavOMRVlnt4IxGcn1vTOlCGU=; b=dKMhQOjkod2R3fzzBHThCb5DYgixxB5wye6Nt9j8dCz0vCH/K5ONK/L29hhFqEpShK ZQtNAGhp55gKzU1KqD7Pwunp6obpZESaXjtn7PPFMU8YIGq5eTTJlYzLlCE7hEC8on44 ayLA3Uj2YQsFHRSNurxz/PYiznWd/2RkhO1mnD8gP9PE431zo5+bFXlTGM6cR5j77J93 wTPyyhFWEZPUCQkk8bULu/IJ0dl6Y9g96+SmGAletYvDCKx8eDYKW5Ola6N1ZEIyIVLh /gKBvgnHclYoaxZWTddN9LCBF826+4Zzbj4f/QDrP4wvRP4PjlvG3owK7juF7ivhUSfI 4MiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W2C/mIOkT/isJfhqXvwJavOMRVlnt4IxGcn1vTOlCGU=; b=dh3fUcN4sjmE0oqbeF36Y433IdNgTJxtoV7Dx4cS2F7LUr4c4dIbp9Htd5xXJ72fPT gAr2SsHRgKjw8816fcKTW3hf9DW4Lzbe3NJhUpITCd4ErWQdqjwKivxwV4L+/JAL4Dad 6ilECzoYHdhIMx8nQzqfLJzXu8B0eCqbqHRYyTDKzpC9TxvfbmkbT9tXWiSFVdsVEgDX QrYz4ll3LOS59ltnK1rpiDgY0o7DSGcQaSHnYiyC1Vzl7uX6pZxYGx6klKn4dHOw2bh1 yo1X2AGKnrWEQbPVCvYXUtm2PKZ1nBohh7uhWPrwVcuq9YEnNeCv93Oh8bJPLSbGNN2+ 2j/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKZ0+MYcHSu5m0M4utE0HOUrarJB8+olsRhBM2yKUVwKSmprckG XK/GwCZ57c/9hrF+Y9nGKRYQ/FQ+DGsfGgsiL3/xRQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5f2LwJMk9mvhngcARJx+1O7YShTzD5PF0Rs7Us+JuYqmrCaBQicJFVev8vGr7DyzpFHrx4vE2fzfTAV2EW/B3M= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7598:: with SMTP id s24mr9321159qtq.6.1542353864074; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:37:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:37:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: tony1athome@gmail.com, rjs@rob.sh, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , tte@cs.fau.de, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002fc522057ac33e7a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 07:37:52 -0000 --0000000000002fc522057ac33e7a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff, > What architecture? > PBR is a form of: > match DSCP X > set next-hop Y > needs no interoperability... That's pretty narrow view. I could say the worst possible example :) You would have to either encapsulate or apply your sample config consistently on every hop. Brrrrr. To me DSCP can be used to map packets to different routing context, different plane or can be used as a parameter in flex-algorithm. Thx, R. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:19 AM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Tony, > > What architecture? > PBR is a form of: > match DSCP X > set next-hop Y > needs no interoperability... > If someone wants to describe how they use a particular vendor feature to > solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the more BCPs - the better. > > Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process - it was a bad idea back then, > hasn=E2=80=99t got any better now... besides - now we have got a toolbox = that > wasn=E2=80=99t available then. > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li wrote: > >> >> >> On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura >> wrote: >> >> The question is really - what is here to standardize? >> >> >> >> There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are solvin= g problem >> XYZ. Please don=E2=80=99t break this. >> >> Tony >> >> --0000000000002fc522057ac33e7a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jeff,

> What architecture?
= > PBR is a form of:
> match DSCP X
> set next-hop Y
> = needs no interoperability...

That's pretty narrow vi= ew. I could say the worst possible example :)=C2=A0 You would have to eithe= r encapsulate or apply your sample config consistently on every hop. Brrrrr= .

To me DSCP can be used to map packets to differe= nt routing context, different plane or can be used as a parameter in flex-a= lgorithm.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.




On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:19 AM Jeff Tant= sura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com= > wrote:
Tony,

What a= rchitecture?
PBR is a form of:
match DSCP X
set next-hop Y
ne= eds no interoperability...
If someone wants to describe how they use a p= articular vendor feature to solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the = more BCPs - the better.

Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process -= it was a bad idea back then, hasn=E2=80=99t got any better now... besides = - now we have got a toolbox that wasn=E2=80=99t available then.

Chee= rs,
Jeff
On Thu, Nov 15, = 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:


On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM= , Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

The question is really - wha= t is here to standardize?


There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are sol= ving problem XYZ.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t break this.

Tony

--0000000000002fc522057ac33e7a-- From nobody Thu Nov 15 23:44:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FBB3129C6B; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:44:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HXZcnX7NgMkh; Thu, 15 Nov 2018 23:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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Jeff Tantsura Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 00:14:45 -0800 Message-ID: To: Robert Raszuk Cc: tony1athome@gmail.com, rjs@rob.sh, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , tte@cs.fau.de, lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004483c2057ac3c338" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:15:01 -0000 --0000000000004483c2057ac3c338 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert, match DSCP X set context Y or plane Z doesn=E2=80=99t make it any different. It has been used and abused in any possible way. If you want to write a BCP saying - use it for X/Y/Z but not for A/B/C because of.... - your business. As to using it someplace else - I=E2=80=99d expect respective documents to = cover the use, flex-algo drafts as to your example. More fundamentally, (flex-algo is the best example) we have got context aware metadata in a form of: MPLS labels (SR SID), v6 EHs, plethora of overlay encaps, etc, with accompanying CP extensions that can be used to achieve exactly that. Now tell me - why again DSCP? P.S. in my previous life, working on 5G transport slicing (yes, i know :)) - i needed per slice identity over the common transport, we ended up looking at UDP port ranges, rather than DSCP - too few bits Cheers, Jeff On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 23:37 Robert Raszuk wrote: > Jeff, > > > What architecture? > > PBR is a form of: > > match DSCP X > > set next-hop Y > > needs no interoperability... > > That's pretty narrow view. I could say the worst possible example :) You > would have to either encapsulate or apply your sample config consistently > on every hop. Brrrrr. > > To me DSCP can be used to map packets to different routing context, > different plane or can be used as a parameter in flex-algorithm. > > Thx, > R. > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:19 AM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Tony, >> >> What architecture? >> PBR is a form of: >> match DSCP X >> set next-hop Y >> needs no interoperability... >> If someone wants to describe how they use a particular vendor feature to >> solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the more BCPs - the better. >> >> Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process - it was a bad idea back then= , >> hasn=E2=80=99t got any better now... besides - now we have got a toolbox= that >> wasn=E2=80=99t available then. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura >>> wrote: >>> >>> The question is really - what is here to standardize? >>> >>> >>> >>> There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are solvi= ng >>> problem XYZ. Please don=E2=80=99t break this. >>> >>> Tony >>> >>> --0000000000004483c2057ac3c338 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert,

match DSCP X
set context Y or plane Z doesn=E2=80=99t mak= e it any different.
It has been used and abused in any possible way. If = you want to write a BCP saying - use it for X/Y/Z but not for A/B/C because= of.... - your business.

As to using it someplace else - I=E2=80=99d= expect respective documents to cover the use, flex-algo drafts as to your = example.

More fundamentally, (flex-algo is the best example) we have= got context aware metadata in a form of: MPLS labels (SR SID), v6 EHs, ple= thora of overlay encaps, etc, with accompanying CP extensions that can be u= sed to achieve exactly that.

Now tell me - why again DSCP?

P.= S. in my previous life, working on 5G transport slicing (yes, i know :)) - = i needed per slice identity over the common transport, we ended up looking = at UDP port ranges, rather than DSCP - too few bits

Cheers,
Jeff<= br>
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 23:3= 7 Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net<= /a>> wrote:
Jef= f,

> What architecture?
> PBR is a form o= f:
> match DSCP X
> set next-hop Y
> needs no interoperab= ility...

That's pretty narrow view. I could say the = worst possible example :)=C2=A0 You would have to either encapsulate or app= ly your sample config consistently on every hop. Brrrrr.

To me DSCP can be used to map packets to different routing context, = different plane or can be used as a parameter in flex-algorithm.=C2=A0

Thx,
R.





Tony,

What archi= tecture?
PBR is a form of:
match DSCP X
set next-hop Y
needs = no interoperability...
If someone wants to describe how they use a parti= cular vendor feature to solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the more= BCPs - the better.

Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process - it = was a bad idea back then, hasn=E2=80=99t got any better now... besides - no= w we have got a toolbox that wasn=E2=80=99t available then.

Cheers,<= br>Jeff
On Thu, Nov 15, 2018= at 22:56 Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:

On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff= Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

The question is= really - what is here to standardize?

<= div>
There=E2=80=99s a fine architectural BCP here: this is h= ow we are solving problem XYZ.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t break this.
=

Tony

--0000000000004483c2057ac3c338-- From nobody Fri Nov 16 02:40:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C972130DCF for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:40:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYGITUh9tQYA for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3F79130DCE for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D260548135; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:40:36 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 4A795440210; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:40:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:40:36 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Rob Shakir Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Robert Raszuk , lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181116104036.rvmrnwvgs5r452pd@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:40:44 -0000 Rob, Thats actually a good example, i had forgotten about that one. This is also a lot more scalable than MTR given how (if i remember correctly, you would only have O(#DSCP,#egres-PE) entries. Cheers Toerless On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:47:26PM -0800, Rob Shakir wrote: > On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 16:07 Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > And btw I read Peter's note as possibility (or invitation) to define > > > algorithm which takes into account DSCP rather then a announcement that > > > this is not there and it should never be. > > > > Sure, i am only talking about the solutions that tried to use DSCP for > > routing so far. I think those failed. And when other agree and we codify > > that, then that would not exclude the option for new work (like what > > Peter may have in mind) to superceed that recommendation. > > > > A number of networks on which I have worked have used DSCP-based tunnel > selection to choose between RSVP-TE LSPs. This essentially is different > routing based on DSCP, which seems to be something that you're trying to > cover -- is that correct? > > If so, given that these are running in real networks, I find it hard to > conclude that any IETF standard should declare them as failed. > > r. > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Fri Nov 16 02:50:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCE1130DC3 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:50:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UxVB9U29ViYZ for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0D3A126BED for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B108548136; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:49:59 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 6BDFD440210; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:49:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:49:59 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: Robert Raszuk , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , rjs@rob.sh, tony1athome@gmail.com, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181116104959.wqzwuikn4kctpppl@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20181115232222.psroxxfwhxrdscns@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <20181116000708.sl6htsevtalu44wx@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5785DD05-7B7E-4AD5-9B9D-D4DB80B14B16@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:50:07 -0000 On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:14:45AM -0800, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > P.S. in my previous life, working on 5G transport slicing (yes, i know :)) > - i needed per slice identity over the common transport, we ended up > looking at UDP port ranges, rather than DSCP - too few bits Right. The main issue is when you start requiring new/more DSCP for a purpose that is not QoS. Which by itself is not a good hard definition, but at least a starting point. Cheers Toerless > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 23:37 Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > Jeff, > > > > > What architecture? > > > PBR is a form of: > > > match DSCP X > > > set next-hop Y > > > needs no interoperability... > > > > That's pretty narrow view. I could say the worst possible example :) You > > would have to either encapsulate or apply your sample config consistently > > on every hop. Brrrrr. > > > > To me DSCP can be used to map packets to different routing context, > > different plane or can be used as a parameter in flex-algorithm. > > > > Thx, > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:19 AM Jeff Tantsura > > wrote: > > > >> Tony, > >> > >> What architecture? > >> PBR is a form of: > >> match DSCP X > >> set next-hop Y > >> needs no interoperability... > >> If someone wants to describe how they use a particular vendor feature to > >> solve a particular problem in a BCP, sure, the more BCPs - the better. > >> > >> Wrt using DSCP in routing decision process - it was a bad idea back then, > >> hasn???t got any better now... besides - now we have got a toolbox that > >> wasn???t available then. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Jeff > >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 22:56 Tony Li wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Nov 15, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Jeff Tantsura > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> The question is really - what is here to standardize? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> There???s a fine architectural BCP here: this is how we are solving > >>> problem XYZ. Please don???t break this. > >>> > >>> Tony > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Fri Nov 16 02:51:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1663126BED; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:50:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.88.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154236545786.519.11469247727788570805@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 02:50:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:50:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPFv3 Extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Peter Psenak Stefano Previdi Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2018-11-16 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF). This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required for Segment Routing with MPLS data plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 16 05:04:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6247E124408; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:04:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.968 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:04:42 -0000 --_000_07D916564A0C40DAA6B919E669C89C20ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUWluLA0KVGhpcyBsb29rcyBtb3JlIGxpa2UgYXBwbHlpbmcgYSBtZWNoYW5pc20gYW5hbG9n b3VzIHRvIEJHUCBjYXBhYmlsaXRpZXMgbmVnb3RpYXRpb24gdG8gUENDPC0+UENFLiBIb3dldmVy LCBwbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgYW5kIGZpbGUgdGhlIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSBJUFIgZGlzY2xvc3VyZSBpZiBh cHBsaWNhYmxlLg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KQWNlZQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBRaW4gV3UgPGJpbGwud3VAaHVhd2Vp LmNvbT4NCkRhdGU6IEZyaWRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTYsIDIwMTggYXQgMjo0NCBBTQ0KVG86IEFj ZWUgTGluZGVtIDxhY2VlQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4sIGRyYWZ0LXd1LWxzci1wY2UtZGlzY292ZXJ5LXNl 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XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 08:17:32 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Qin Wu , "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VRRJ+A//+w54CAATndgIAANtaA Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:17:32 +0000 Message-ID: <9FCA225D-C4A4-4DEC-B5D2-942C3AC78EA0@cisco.com> References: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.152, xch-rtp-012.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:17:38 -0000 SGkgUWluLCANCg0KVGhpcyB3YXMgYXQgYSB0aW1lIHdoZW4gdGhlcmUgd2VyZSBjb25jZXJucyBh Ym91dCBhZHZlcnRpc2luZyBub24tSUdQIHNwZWNpZmljIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGluIE9TUEYodjMp IFJvdXRlciBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBMU0FzLiBXZSd2ZSBzaW5jZSBhc3N1YWdlZCBvdXIgY29uY2Vy bnMgd2l0aCBSRkMgNzc3MCB3aGVyZSBJIGFkZGVkIHRoZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5ICBvZiBhZHZl cnRpc2luZyBtdWx0aXBsZSBpbnN0YW5jZXMgb2YgdGhlIE9TUEYodjMpIFJvdXRlciBJbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBMU0EuIE5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIG5ldyBkcmFmdCBzaG91bGQgdXBkYXRlIGJvdGggUkZD 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ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E036130ED8; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:45:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Pete Resnick To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.88.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154237593213.617.1926432231677036618@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:45:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:45:32 -0000 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 Reviewer: Pete Resnick Review Date: 2018-11-16 IETF LC End Date: 2018-11-16 IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat Summary: One serious concern, one minor issue, and some nits. Major issues: In 3.1: I get worried when I see this: SID/Label: If length is set to 3, then the 20 rightmost bits represent a label. So, the Length is not a length, but rather a flag. This seems like it has the potential for an interop problem. If a general implementation treats it as a length, it's going to get the left-most 24 bits when the value is 3. Even if the implementation chooses the right-most 24 bits, it's only supposed to take the right-most 20 bits and mask off the extra 4 bits. Or are you going to specify that implementations must always set the extra 4 bits to 0? Maybe this sort of thing is the way things have always been done for TLVs, and if so feel free to ignore me, but from an code implementation perspective, this seems like an accident waiting to happen. (Known sometimes as a "foot-gun".) Minor issues: In 4.4: The SRMS Preference TLV MAY only be advertised once in the OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSA and has the following format: You mean MUST, not MAY there. In 7.1 and 7.2: If SID/Index/Label is a label, is it using the low 20 bits of the first 3 bytes of the field (i.e., bits 4-23)? Is there a requirement that the high 4 bits and the low 8 bits must be cleared by the implementation? Some clarification would be useful. In 8.1: You talk about setting the IA-flag, but this version of the document doesn't define the IA-flag anymore. Is it defined elsewhere? Nits/editorial comments: In 3.1: Ignoring the issue stated above, I also found this text a bit confusing: Length: Variable, 3 or 4 octets Obviously you mean that the value of Length is either 3 or 4. At first I read it as the value of Length was variable, and that it took up 3 or 4 octets in the Sub-TLV. If this is the way you've always written these things, fine, but it seems to me it would be clearer to say. Length: Either 3 or 4 In 5: s/we need a single advertisement/a single advertisement is needed Just being pedantic. If you like it, use it. If not, don't. From nobody Fri Nov 16 06:39:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20732130ED1; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 06:39:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NW2lLSv1xAtW; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 06:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC358130ED0; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 06:39:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3447; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542379160; x=1543588760; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dkDNuu0dCBZZ3ct4XBTmoqbiQiqyFjr9sV4N+2cXL1g=; b=nAOcSkajwmB+RXL0Eqp0NU34aFVKxKCrFXgmoxaWvY9donhND03nzHyi nSAnUWE9weobyn6Tnix2oaLHH6sdwPVypRAvon5w0cj4QOjStyFkA/gig CqBvbuFGF/Y0UBuDsmsITg+iRXj3osowsyDHdVQACxLtRXBCc2Jpv56nT I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AFAABM1e5b/xbLJq1jGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBUgMBAQEBAQsBgmlwEoQfiHeNKpc2FIFmDSOESQKDdjU?= =?us-ascii?q?IDQEDAQECAQECbRwMhTwBAQEDASMVQAEFCwsUBAICBRYLAgIJAwIBAgFFBgE?= =?us-ascii?q?MAQcBAYMegXkID6gTgSEOhUGEWwWBC4sRgUA/gRGDEoMbAoFJgxyCVwKJRYY?= =?us-ascii?q?MhVmKQAmGeootGIFYhQeCfSaGeI01iluBRwE2gVUzGggbFYMogiMDFxKITIU?= =?us-ascii?q?/PgOOFQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,240,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8037383" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Nov 2018 14:39:17 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.43] ([10.147.24.43]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAGEdG79016727; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:39:17 GMT Message-ID: <5BEED694.9060606@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 15:39:16 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pete Resnick , gen-art@ietf.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: <154237593213.617.1926432231677036618@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154237593213.617.1926432231677036618@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.43, [10.147.24.43] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:39:23 -0000 Hi Pete, please see inline: On 16/11/18 14:45 , Pete Resnick wrote: > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review result: Ready with Issues > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just > like any other last call comments. > > For more information, please see the FAQ at > > . > > Document: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-18 > Reviewer: Pete Resnick > Review Date: 2018-11-16 > IETF LC End Date: 2018-11-16 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat > > Summary: One serious concern, one minor issue, and some nits. > > Major issues: > > In 3.1: > > I get worried when I see this: > > SID/Label: If length is set to 3, then the 20 rightmost bits > represent a label. > > So, the Length is not a length, but rather a flag. This seems like it has the > potential for an interop problem. If a general implementation treats it as a > length, it's going to get the left-most 24 bits when the value is 3. Even if > the implementation chooses the right-most 24 bits, it's only supposed to take > the right-most 20 bits and mask off the extra 4 bits. Or are you going to > specify that implementations must always set the extra 4 bits to 0? no. We have other documents that use the same and none of them enforces the other bits to 0. When we say we only use specific bits, the rest can be set to anything. > > Maybe this sort of thing is the way things have always been done for TLVs, and > if so feel free to ignore me, but from an code implementation perspective, this > seems like an accident waiting to happen. (Known sometimes as a "foot-gun".) > > Minor issues: > > In 4.4: > > The SRMS Preference TLV MAY only be advertised once in the OSPFv3 > Router Information Opaque LSA and has the following format: > > You mean MUST, not MAY there. sure, I will change to MUST. > > In 7.1 and 7.2: > > If SID/Index/Label is a label, is it using the low 20 bits of the first 3 bytes > of the field (i.e., bits 4-23)? right. > Is there a requirement that the high 4 bits and > the low 8 bits must be cleared by the implementation? there is no such requirement really. >Some clarification would be useful. > > In 8.1: > > You talk about setting the IA-flag, but this version of the document doesn't > define the IA-flag anymore. Is it defined elsewhere? my bad, we have removed IA in last version, but I forgot to remove this part. I removed it. > > Nits/editorial comments: > > In 3.1: > > Ignoring the issue stated above, I also found this text a bit confusing: > > Length: Variable, 3 or 4 octets > > Obviously you mean that the value of Length is either 3 or 4. At first I read > it as the value of Length was variable, and that it took up 3 or 4 octets in > the Sub-TLV. If this is the way you've always written these things, fine, but > it seems to me it would be clearer to say. > > Length: Either 3 or 4 Done. > > In 5: > > s/we need a single advertisement/a single advertisement is needed > > Just being pedantic. If you like it, use it. If not, don't. Done. Please let me know if you agree or disagree with my responses. thanks, Peter > > > . > From nobody Fri Nov 16 13:39:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F73128D09 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:39:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i8xmxmEF4B2G for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36B48127333 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id n46so22658079otb.9 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:39:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LfR3kItMy6MbWKpbRB3cn+rG4BMVJQrqy2a2KjXZICA=; b=I+5k6L6IW/vqb2XKKeiB0KVoaxCEKMjr5AGR0O9pJEYb5g4zlocT+F/gBmnL/glPJA 4K0jMv6UDIG30Z8TRfF2SOECtcpg+MPoKrCWYoNctByGL9Dz6iQClI3Or1xzTTDgSCSQ rbNGouSqZWmP6XYgcYxWkw9TYnSt/xN/q/f4jX6wVwJnIfh6uGaJIsHlSrYFYcRStFBZ HgHhIchM1iCReKudolDHLJ6tTQRC81383ub+Mx/y9s6+0ePZG4JlZkIyeJ1MrfXELMue 5aXFqgTb2VrmOOnA0ktk2E5NPwUpd50qjt9T2Y7ff+mzZKTVu02WSjZ8Q5xojomWDYbX 8Ung== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LfR3kItMy6MbWKpbRB3cn+rG4BMVJQrqy2a2KjXZICA=; b=fZeZvRXSEy+orZXWKJXMUCREi3kpt/Mh5CNudl2mM6RWJGjpmTUV6GKygoeVihsile vwvWtqjiAOUR/9RgD+XQ/SkhkEMEhqhwF7pIiYMVHh1+uLMw5SvPFF33Ju5KYYIgAcIe br1B+WzOKj/8Cny+b4Sz0xXl8LdoUvHmG/YswdeAIX3i07Gl9lXTerG6OpslfHg/zjjJ jVdgTnyiOejw7b5rUpcIdKMEmBpx+O0ASmi9MKV3YkCG0XvkZMNcdoHwunA3LYxrrVQ+ 1NU30/p5pE+JG3u/2hDRH6noRcfcXZ4cafwaajHyyARGBkUih2PusprOSh7xfEQIJi7H zgzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLzMkpcB2Lk0tVhD+nlz2PFiG5STBIpofzVaZtRHmz2ZGCSfgKr wwmgizQ3ezqT3IsCK0wAj6zuUR3xHg4tLoNB27Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cF5dVGDZW6k8bwPaN5lOP/R/ZB0XdMqWQpe4HF3XrBchHetQKM5SL4pR4Fe3MEzbpkJSP37qBJIOInvdidVy4= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:437d:: with SMTP id y58mr7187945oti.287.1542404388475; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:39:47 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: References: <5BED872A.7090201@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:39:47 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" , "Goethals, Dirk (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , Mahendra Singh Negi , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000acd96b057acf01b1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions - small change X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 21:39:52 -0000 --000000000000acd96b057acf01b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter: Hi! -18 still has one reference to the IA-flag in =C2=A78.1. Please remove it. Thanks! Alvaro. On November 16, 2018 at 1:20:18 AM, Mahendra Singh Negi ( mahendrasingh@huawei.com) wrote: Hi Acee/Peter, This change doesn't impact our implementation. Thanks, Mahendra -----Original Message----- From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] Sent: 15 November 2018 20:55 To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) ; lsr@ietf.org Cc: Goethals, Dirk (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; Mahendra Singh Negi Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions - small change Hi Peter, I agree - it is not needed in OSPFv3 Extended LSAs. Hi Dirk, Mahendra, How will this impact your implementations? Thanks, Acee =EF=BB=BFOn 11/15/18, 9:48 AM, "Lsr on behalf of Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" < lsr-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote: Hi, as a part of the RtgDir review we got a comment about the usage of the IA bit in the OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV (Section 5). We defined this bit for OSPFv2 originally. In OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Range TLV is carried as a top level TLV of the Extended Prefix Opaque LSA, which is not specific to any route-type, so we needed a mechanism to prevent redundant flooding of Prefix Range TLVs between areas. In OSPFv3 however, we are advertising the Extended Prefix Range TLV in the type specific LSAs, so we can use standard rules to prevent the "looping" of advertisements. So we want to remove the IA bit from the flags field in OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV. I would like to know whether anyone has any objection. thanks, Peter _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --000000000000acd96b057acf01b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Peter:

Hi!

=
-18 still has one reference to the IA-fl= ag in =C2=A78.1.=C2=A0 Please remove it.

Thanks!

Alvaro= .

On November 16, 2018 at 1:20:18 AM, Mah= endra Singh Negi (mahendrasingh= @huawei.com) wrote:

Hi Acee/Peter,

This change doesn't impact our implementation.

Thanks,
Mahendra

-----Original Message-----
From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee= @cisco.com] =20
Sent: 15 November 2018 20:55
To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <pps= enak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: Goethals, Dirk (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <dirk.goethals@nokia.com>; Mahendra Singh Negi <mahendrasingh@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions - = small change

Hi Peter, =20
I agree - it is not needed in OSPFv3 Extended LSAs.

Hi Dirk, Mahendra, =20

How will this impact your implementations?

Thanks,
Acee

=EF=BB=BFOn 11/15/18, 9:48 AM, "Lsr on behalf of Peter Psenak (pps= enak)" <lsr-bounces@ietf.or= g on behalf of ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi,
=20
as a part of the RtgDir review we got a comment about the usage of = the =20
IA bit in the OSPFv3 Extended Prefix Range TLV (Section 5).
=20
We defined this bit for OSPFv2 originally. In OSPFv2 Extended Prefi= x =20
Range TLV is carried as a top level TLV of the Extended Prefix Opaq= ue =20
LSA, which is not specific to any route-type, so we needed a mechan= ism =20
to prevent redundant flooding of Prefix Range TLVs between areas.
=20
In OSPFv3 however, we are advertising the Extended Prefix Range TLV= in =20
the type specific LSAs, so we can use standard rules to prevent the= =20
"looping" of advertisements.
=20
So we want to remove the IA bit from the flags field in OSPFv3 Exte= nded =20
Prefix Range TLV.
=20
I would like to know whether anyone has any objection.
=20
thanks,
Peter
=20
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
=20

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
= Lsr@ietf.org
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--000000000000acd96b057acf01b1-- From nobody Fri Nov 16 13:40:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA590128D09; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:40:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKVZCvO6kThT; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com (mail-ot1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE47F127333; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id n46so22659651otb.9; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:40:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=B7N76vQ9FXSwSUj9fFHLXfPf9CXJkbAhR5bqqZOu2q0=; b=NPfcJn0uYYtbvqWfdEoTOlY09yBuQVvHUb7/688eQPBPJJU+I2Ae2bW/60sv3obhw0 Bv8p+1JWd4O7y/XcoWbhq/MDlOmT1RT/dbs+7GyAS7GHS5nGGuiaoroDUTz7YcndpJEV CoESmxO8mQQBS/QHMJHIu9+Alhiu+PLsXQr5k2VSRQqe6WG+fHaQ6B8qZCi2YenrK8KA jrTSICgWKXwCxF1oOzgawXoNg8zSC8X5qqxoLov9OWuIPjzzNS3/YWbLHC8Bzve/xj8l hlLee2eXqbxW8HsqSXhlMLsGUwedutlJwA6C73Lhjd8HlXcgIKhmnM1XuVkkxReXzjbo Pb+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=B7N76vQ9FXSwSUj9fFHLXfPf9CXJkbAhR5bqqZOu2q0=; b=CJZAELwvm0AFUROUBjBIdd9bp+zdG0STWJ2K9LmqtCuoiTcGtClKD4bA9L8nf8Jk8K SMbqL4hqzObrfjpWdqKSK1pboFDMejLnh+rCLganAVZnvn2kR0z9MBXF/MP67BBkpzw2 grNl9jFDw9qi4HbXtEzorVPGbFtM0HbkeJm+GtRGkJmA4qMCy/H4XnSEvCQJj+jp8091 pqxxlOv9YrnuhsrAz+GR8rvZVEDUyYXFrq3d8glseBLhg/V9PxfxDfsp3Q5CjbYiLyl1 3RJTKQ9yq9jgPnXHMPE4+ufw0AgG03wofJQDnuxhe4VOIffB3aW4Ghm9kAnQ1zMcSqDI uP3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gITWHFBJn6ULVX6bZC8KsJiP12YblEPTW0xWj+crIbM7haSlg6j 9MnWUjtoQ+L6alxWUW+YUApWQa04WzI+mO3i0ifNHT93 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eKC33SmQwJWlatTBRLSTTeFjTeXamOGzHjX305HVH/QLHei7Bkk1A27WQbvuvohRmpVcUKHWVdHqBILINF0gw= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:3de2:: with SMTP id l89mr7671528otc.239.1542404426662; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 13:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:40:26 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <5BD848FF.7060400@cisco.com> References: <154058293310.8782.9766839380541329981@ietfa.amsl.com> <5BD848FF.7060400@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 16:40:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org, Peter Psenak , Joe Clarke Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f38932057acf0329" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 21:40:30 -0000 --000000000000f38932057acf0329 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Took the ops-dir and the ietf@ietf lists off.] Hi! Joe makes a really good point below about the TLV types and RFC7770. It looks like we all missed it! :-( To quote Peter (from a message in this thread), "I don't think it is good to specify the behavior which is described somewhere else.=E2=80=9D Looking at -18, Section 4 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions) has the exact same text [*] as Section 3 in draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions. Given that the IANA allocation is done in draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, and that draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions refers back to it, then I would like to see the following changes: (1) In draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, Section 3: These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]). These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]). The TLVs defined below are applicable to both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3; see also [ID.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions]. =E2=80=A6and add an Informative reference to draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions. (2) In draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions, replace the entire Section 4 with: " Segment Routing requires some additional router capabilities to be advertised to other routers in the area. These SR capabilities are advertised in the OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]), and specified in [ID.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions]. =E2=80=9C Even though draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions is already with the RFC Editor, it is waiting for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls, so we can still make changes. Please submit a new version (and send an update of the XML to the rfc-editor). I am scheduling draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions on the Dec/6 IESG Telechat. Please submit an update before the end of this month. Thanks!! Alvaro. [*] Except for the OSPFv3 being specifically called out, and a couple of other minor points. On October 30, 2018 at 8:05:27 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com) wrote: > With respect to TLV types 8, 9, 14, and 15, they are defined in > draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, and it took me a while to figure > out where you were getting those values and why they weren't spelled out in the > IANA considerations. You have a normative reference to this, which is good, > but you only mention it with respect to the algorithm parameters. I think > another mention is required. > > I'm going to be pedantic here. According to RFC7770, when a new OSPF Router > Information LSA TLV is defined, the spec needs to explicitly state if it'= s > applicable to OSPFv2, v3, or both. While you reference the TLVs from > draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, I didn't see that either document > _explicitly_ states that they are applicable to both. ##PP added the following to each of the values: Type: X as defined in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and aplicable to OSPFv3. --000000000000f38932057acf0329 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
[Took the ops-dir and the ietf@ietf lists off.]

Hi!

Joe makes a really good point below about the TLV types and RFC7770.=C2=A0= It looks like we all missed it! :-(

To quote Peter (from a mess= age in this thread), "I don't think it is good to specify t= he behavior which is described somewhere else.=E2=80=9D

Looking at -18, Section 4 (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segm= ent-routing-extensions) has the exact same text [*] as Section 3 in=C2=A0dr= aft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions.=C2=A0 Given that the IANA allocat= ion is done in=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, and that=C2= =A0draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions refers back to it, the= n I would like to see the following changes:

(1) In=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, Section 3= :

<OLD>
These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Information Op= aque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]).

<NEW>
These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Inform= ation Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]).=C2=A0 The TLVs defined below are a= pplicable to both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3; see also [ID.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-= routing-extensions].

=E2=80=A6and a= dd an Informative reference to draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-exten= sions.

(2) In draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv= 3-segment-routing-extensions, replace the entire Section 4 with:

"
Segment = Routing requires some additional router capabilities to be advertised to ot= her routers in the area.

These SR capabilities are adv= ertised in the OSPFv3 Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]),= and specified in [ID.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions].
=E2=80=9C


Even though draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions is already with t= he RFC Editor, it is waiting for=C2=A0draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpl= s, so we can still make changes.=C2=A0 Please submit a new version (and sen= d an update of the XML to the rfc-editor).

I am scheduling=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensi= ons on the Dec/6 IESG Telechat.=C2=A0 Please submit an update before the en= d of this month.
Thanks!!

Alvaro.



[*] Except for the OSPFv3 being specifically= called out, and a couple of other minor points.

On October 30, 2018 at 8:05:27 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com) wrote:

>= ; With respect to TLV types 8, 9, 14, and 15, they are defined in=C2=A0
> draft-ietf-ospf-se= gment-routing-extensions, and it took me a while to figure=C2=A0
> out where you were gettin= g those values and why they weren't spelled out in the=C2=A0
> IANA considerations. You = have a normative reference to this, which is good,=C2=A0
<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'helvetica Neue',helveti= ca;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:no= rmal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:= none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);= display:inline!important;float:none">> but you only mention it with resp= ect to the algorithm parameters. I think=C2=A0
> another mention is required.=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
= > I'm going to be pedantic her= e. According to RFC7770, when a new OSPF Router=C2=A0
> Information LSA TLV is defined, the = spec needs to explicitly state if it's=C2=A0
> applicable to OSPFv2, v3, or both. While = you reference the TLVs from=C2=A0
> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, I didn't= see that either document=C2=A0
> _explicitly_ states that they are applicable to both.=C2=A0

##PP=C2=A0
added the following to each of the values:=C2=A0

Type: X as defined in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] a= nd=C2=A0
aplicable t= o OSPFv3.=C2=A0
--000000000000f38932057acf0329-- From nobody Fri Nov 16 14:08:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDAA6127333; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:08:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric@ietf.org, Christian Hopps , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, chopps@chopps.org, lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.88.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154240609078.528.14858768990875787621.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 14:08:10 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 22:08:11 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 1 Perhaps expand IIH on first usage? Section 1.2 (We could perhaps use "virtual network" instead of "VPN", to avoid ambiguity about whether its traffic is encrypted. This is quite tangential to the actual document, so feel free to ignore.) Section 1.5 Using an offset implies a need to do bounds checking and/or clamping. Section 2 discusses this to some extent, though it may be worth an additional mention here or in the security considerations. Section 2 The Reverse Metric TLV is a new TLV to be used inside IS-IS Hello PDU. This TLV is used to support the IS-IS Reverse Metric mechanism that allows a "reverse metric" to be send to the IS-IS neighbor. nits: "inside an IS-IS Hello PDU"; "sent" Do we need to say "network byte order" for the Metric field? The W bit seems to allow one node to modify the metric for traffic to adjacent nodes, which is a slightly broader permission than what is described in the security considerations and could merit mention therein. (The existing text there on authentication should suffice even for this permission, though.) U bit (0x02): The "Unreachable" bit specifies that the metric calculated by addition of the reverse metric value to the "default metric" is limited to (2^24-1). Does this mean that 2^24-1 is the maximum value (as opposed to the maximum of 2^24-2 when the bit is not set) or that it is the only allowed value? [...] This sub-TLV is optional, if it appears more than once then the entire Reverse Metric TLV MUST be ignored. nit: comma splice Section 3.2 When an M-ISIS router receives a Reverse Metric TLV, it MUST add the received Metric value to its Default Metric in all Extended IS Reachability TLVs for all topologies. [...] (I assume this is still scoped to the link in question. I don't know whether there's any need to add more text to clarify that, though.) Section 3.3 If a DIS is configured to apply Traffic Engineering over a link and it receives metric sub-TLV in a Reverse Metric TLV, it should update the Traffic Engineering Default Metric sub-TLV value of the corresponding Extended IS Reachability TLV or insert a new one if not present. Is "metric sub-TLV" short for "Traffic Engineering Default Metric sub-TLV"? In the case of multi-access LANs, the "W" Flags bit is used to signal from a non-DIS to the DIS whether to change the metric and, optionally Traffic Engineering parameters for all nodes in the Pseudonode LSP or solely the node on the LAN originating the Reverse Metric TLV. nit: comma after "optionally" When the DIS receives the Reverse Metric TLV with the 'W' bit set, does that mean it ignores any such TLVs it receives without the 'W' bit set, or would both the global and router-specific offsets be applied? Section 3.5 Please expand CSPF on first use. (Also, nit-level, I am inferring that "a CSPF recalculation" would be more grammatical, but am not entirely sure.) Also, SHOULD and RECOMMENDED have the same strength, so from an editorial perspective the current text could be consolidated. But perhaps the intent was to have the 2^24-1 case be a stronger requirement, in which case MUST could be used? It is RECOMMENDED that implementations provide a capability to disable any IS-IS metric changes by Reverse Metric mechanism through neighbor's Hello PDUs. It can be to a node's individual interface Default Metric or Traffic Engineering parameters based upon receiving a properly formatted Reverse Metric TLVs. I'm failing to parse this last sentence. The first sentence seems to be saying that implementations should provide a knob to ignore received Reverse Metric TLVs, so maybe the second sentence is trying to say what the behavior would be in the case that the received Reverse Metric TLV is ignored? I'm not sure. Section 4 The enhancement in this document makes it possible for one IS-IS router to manipulate the IS-IS Default Metric and, optionally, Traffic Engineering parameters of adjacent IS-IS neighbors. [...] Just to check my understanding: this manipulation is for parameters either for links directed at the IS-IS router sending Reverse Metric, or for links directed to multicast neighbors on a multi-access LAN (or both)? Section 5 It's a little surprising to me to see a new registry created with a single value allocated, the value of which matches the sub-TLV of the same name in the "Sub-TLVs for TLVs 22, 23, 25, 141, 222, and 223 (Extended IS reachability, IS Neighbor Attribute, L2 Bundle Member Attributes, inter-AS reachability information, MT-ISN, and MT IS Neighbor Attribute TLVs)" registry, but I do not object to doing it this way. Appendix B The risks of misidentifying one side of a point-to-point link or one or more interfaces attached to a multi-access LAN and subsequently increasing its IS-IS metric and potentially increased latency, jitter or packet loss. [...] nit: I'm not sure this is a complete sentence. I think "The risks of..." implies there will be another clause following, and also that "subsequently increasing" and "potentially increased" have mismatched verb tense, but I am not entirely certain I am working towards the intended meaning. From nobody Fri Nov 16 17:35:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4032F128B14 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:35:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8IogoQOnsVm for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9475126CB6 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4F08F501A3079; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 01:35:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 01:35:34 +0000 Received: from SJCEML521-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.221]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.170]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 17:35:31 -0800 From: Uma Chunduri To: Jeff Tantsura , Robert Raszuk CC: "tte@cs.fau.de" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "rjs@rob.sh" , "tony1athome@gmail.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q Thread-Index: AQHUfIsRQFnrTbhmIkW5pf4jEeImxaVQx90AgAE5SYCAAAGxgIAACs8AgAALQwCAAEMxgIAAI8QAgAAGZgCAAAU8AIAACmOAgACaz9A= Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 01:35:30 +0000 Message-ID: <25B4902B1192E84696414485F5726854136DA063@sjceml521-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: 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nQTvu4gmKkoB for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 01:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2835B1286D9 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 01:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id BF2DA5863DD9F; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:55:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:55:22 +0000 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:55:18 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Toerless Eckert , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q Thread-Index: AQHUfIsVtb1RI/dr5kG5905Pe7jBEaVPu6UAgAcjpwA= Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2D2C4E3@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.151.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 09:55:28 -0000 Hi Les, Thanks for the summary and citations.=20 To my understanding, although DSCP based steering could be used in multi-to= pology scenarios, such usage is not defined in IETF specifications. Actuall= y there can be many ways of choosing which topology is used for the forward= ing of a particular packet. Thus the relationship between DSCP and MT is no= t that tightly coupled.=20 Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsbe= rg) > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 12:41 PM > To: Toerless Eckert ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q >=20 > Toerless - >=20 > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. >=20 > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you mention s= ay > anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? >=20 > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the statement: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > information in various topology specific forwarding structures are > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are associated > with the corresponding topology." >=20 > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something that "cou= ld" > be used to determine on what topology a packet should be forwarded. >=20 > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a statement in Se= ction > 3: >=20 > "It is assumed, but > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer is > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" >=20 > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively define) > any relationship between DSCP and MT. >=20 > ??? >=20 > Les >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of path, > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, 5120, 7722)= ? > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good idea to > > customers first, but when implementations became available, customers > > really did not want to implement it because of the overloading of DSCP > > between QoS and routing and the resulting management complexity. > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced in > > any later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad idea, > > i wonder if it would be appropriate to have a short normative document > > from LSR defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is > > historic and not recommended anymore and make this an update to above > > three RFCs, maybe also pointing out that there are other methods to > > select a topology and those remain viable: > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be changed > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is supported > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > Thanks! > > Toerless > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Mon Nov 19 04:49:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E767F12F1A5 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 04:49:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from 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X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A1C130DF3 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 05:09:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Yeu4LmtjcbD for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 05:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3D13130E14 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 05:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id wAJD8tPM027385; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:08:55 GMT Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD6622040; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:08:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A4422203B; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:08:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V ([88.131.62.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id wAJD8rYR027868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:08:54 GMT From: To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Dongjie \(Jimmy\)'" , "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , "'Toerless Eckert'" , References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2D2C4E3@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <38DB77CA-43CA-4DC6-9C16-3AD25ECB8426@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <38DB77CA-43CA-4DC6-9C16-3AD25ECB8426@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:08:52 -0000 Message-ID: <002c01d48009$05e2d600$11a88200$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-gb Thread-Index: AQGzrt05CLJ8f0KihH+ISN7QkNWeVQKoLJrhAs0/j6kCD4X/0KVci3bg X-Originating-IP: 88.131.62.38 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24232.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--22.880-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--22.880-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24232.007 X-TMASE-Result: 10--22.879700-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: nI1cAR4k0Hap5Rjnl5atAnFPUrVDm6jt11dpco6u0HuL+72Niu/rKQdq b5fC0EclZgeF+dVIoFxuY/A8Bf1X4LwkDW+N8FCIutvHF25zoU93gvNDlwkK8z9gymO/6/RqWKo DKTsuRuT9tJHS0PSrKO6PIkzkjO7m9n9o7CPPk4vhqJ6oLOc8QRdnqTrUdQnPZOV3cNsnUIYfah 0XtuYfoKMMOYNWzQmEtcWFqI/JoUGa03wBl4TTsEhEDfw/93Bu8GRhP/nTHNZUvqB5o/Lqc7DuD wwmJUS3uItJR8la7O1KuK4RVuevC0X7dI9czDtMqa6SJk58+Lb4qCLIu0mtIE+0uGVOF08QAvK0 O9Xf2H5NVembZZlu1ypIKtGJTQ4jo2Z3ulin6a2zI1v7J4hECrOA0SKY3oCFMacxaAmSlGitGgS aDEUO7AXOPvrW0hQ76ABdYrf00usCvT5/UnZb1FaA5UKX+E3VuCESrx7wlnLMB0kPsl40wx5WLt 2ZJGilOVifhIdUyWcdaG/ra8E41Rmy7bIQKVwXqbg9uWhLYLcFcnqPYTPUh5uSv4SfxhK3M7nDU IL90GvnzlXMYw4XMIGsNX5eg/aOL+25vAeQJJeLZAVphLW/bSq2rl3dzGQ1DBbGvtcMofyUTGVA hB5EbQ== X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 13:09:17 -0000 I think that this thread keeps mixing concepts. As Acee says, using DSCP = to select a topology is feasible. Similarly, using DSCP to govern access = to / usage of resources is a thing (as Jeff said for slicing, and as = other have said for queues, etc.) But that is a far thing from policy-based routing which is, erm, = something else altogether. Adrian -----Original Message----- From: Lsr On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: 19 November 2018 12:49 To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = ; Toerless Eckert ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q Hi Jie, Actually, the usage of DSCP to steer traffic onto a topology was = specified in RFC 4915. However, this required an ecosystem to provision = and mark traffic as it ingressed the OSPF MT routing domain (which was = not specified). We (Cisco) had an implementation in the mid-2000s but it = really didn't get a lot of deployment or implementation by other = vendors.=20 Thanks, Acee =EF=BB=BFOn 11/19/18, 4:55 AM, "Lsr on behalf of Dongjie (Jimmy)" = wrote: Hi Les, =20 Thanks for the summary and citations.=20 =20 To my understanding, although DSCP based steering could be used in = multi-topology scenarios, such usage is not defined in IETF = specifications. Actually there can be many ways of choosing which = topology is used for the forwarding of a particular packet. Thus the = relationship between DSCP and MT is not that tightly coupled.=20 =20 Best regards, Jie =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 12:41 PM > To: Toerless Eckert ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q >=20 > Toerless - >=20 > It's pretty hard to understand the context for your email. >=20 > What leads you to believe that any of the MT specifications you = mention say > anything normative about DSCP and topologies?? >=20 > RFC4915 does not mention DSCP at all - but does make the = statement: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4915#section-3.8 > "It is outside of the scope of this document to specify how the > information in various topology specific forwarding structures = are > used during packet forwarding or how incoming packets are = associated > with the corresponding topology." >=20 > RFC 5120 does mention DSCP, but only as an example of something = that "could" > be used to determine on what topology a packet should be = forwarded. >=20 > RFC 7722 also mentions DSCP as an example, but there is a = statement in Section > 3: >=20 > "It is assumed, but > outside the scope of this specification, that the network layer = is > able to choose which topology to use for each packet" >=20 > IGP WGs have never attempted to recommend (let alone normatively = define) > any relationship between DSCP and MT. >=20 > ??? >=20 > Les >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lsr On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert > > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 6:29 PM > > To: lsr@ietf.org > > Subject: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q > > > > Whats the current best guidance on using DSCP for selection of = path, > > specifically for selection of topology with MTR (RFCs 4915, = 5120, 7722) ? > > > > My understanding from history is that this looked like a good = idea to > > customers first, but when implementations became available, = customers > > really did not want to implement it because of the overloading = of DSCP > > between QoS and routing and the resulting management complexity. > > > > Has the idea of using DSCP for path selection been re-introduced = in > > any later work like flex-Algos ? > > > > If there could be rough consensus that this is in general a bad = idea, > > i wonder if it would be appropriate to have a short normative = document > > from LSR defining that the use of DSCP for topology selection is > > historic and not recommended anymore and make this an update to = above > > three RFCs, maybe also pointing out that there are other methods = to > > select a topology and those remain viable: > > > > I specifically would not like to see the actual MTR RFCs to be = changed > > in status, because MTR actually does work quite well and is = supported > > in products and deployed with IP multicast, even with multiple > > topologies for IP multicast in live-live scenarios. > > > > Thanks! > > Toerless > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Mon Nov 19 06:15:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36808130DC8 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 06:15:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.971 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.971 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wAJEF5Sk008388 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:15:07 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com (173.36.7.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 08:15:04 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 08:15:04 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , Toerless Eckert , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR: Using DSCP for path/topology selection Q Thread-Index: AQHUfIsQfFyL7MO/SkqsJ4uRxzsGkaVQP6HwgAcH0YCAADCZAP//sSzw Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:15:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181115022918.pfgcztognsjeb37v@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <4085ff6f77b5443ca4de319f9a909a01@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927C2D2C4E3@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> 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IGFuIExTUCBmcm9tIEUsIHdoaWxlIEQsIEUsIGFuZCBGIHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgZ2V0IGFuIExTUCBm cm9tIEIuDQoNClNpbmNlIENEL0RDIHdhcyBuZXZlciBkb3duLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyByZWFzb24g dG8gZG8gYSBkYXRhYmFzZSBleGNoYW5nZSBvdmVyIGl0Lg0KDQpJdCBzZWVtcyBsaWtlIHRoZSBu ZXR3b3JrIGlzIHBlcm1hbmVudGx5IGJyb2tlbiwgYXMgdGhlIGZsb29kaW5nIHRvcG9sb2d5IGlz IHBhcnRpdGlvbmVkIGJ5IENEL0RDLg0KDQpEaWQgSSBtaXNzIHNvbWV0aGluZz8NCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 19 10:00:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668DD12D4E9; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:00:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.47, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham 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(TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 12:00:12 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 12:00:11 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc Thread-Index: AdR4OJWYmH00pYTzTK6gvxR+PFXbGgH+ARaQ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:00:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.169] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a68386836e63444b940d5d49fcf39496XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.13, xch-rcd-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:00:31 -0000 --_000_a68386836e63444b940d5d49fcf39496XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephane - The use case for this proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the abse= nce of a controller. If the WG agrees that this use case needs to be addressed I believe the pro= posal below is a good and viable compromise. I say "compromise" because - as you mention below - ELC/ELRD are functional= ly node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires signaling between = AS's and the vehicle we have for doing that is a prefix advertisement. The = compromise is to advertise ELC associated with a prefix - but not do so for= ERLD. This seems reasonable to me. One change to what you state below - I think "when a prefix is leaked or re= distributed, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST also be leaked/redistrib= uted.". Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@orange.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc Hi WG, Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how to encode the entropy = label capability for SR but we hadn't found a consensus on the target solut= ion. IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various people that have = participated to this discussion. Following this discussion, we are coming with the following proposal that t= he WG need to validate: The entropy label capability is still considered as a per node property (fo= r simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC per linecard). The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do= not want to have an ERLD per linecard). However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging to the node itse= lf in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes. A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or a = different one) are redistributing routes between each other. The inter-area use case is also creating a similar situation. When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a segment it must ensur= e that the tail-end of the segment is entropy label capable otherwise packe= ts will be dropped. As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, the entropy label capabi= lity of the node who has firstly originated the prefix, should be associate= d to the prefix during the redistribution. In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy label capability f= or each prefix advertised by a node. The entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix Attribut= es IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684). The entropy label capability may be set for local prefixes (e.g. loopbacks)= by a local configuration and for leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a pre= fix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix may be als= o leaked/redistributed. An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix segment only if= the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the ELC set in the Pre= fix Attributes. An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adjacency segment only if = the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertised the Adj SID is advert= ising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable). For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the signaling of the bindi= ng SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts. Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we can progress thes= e documents. Brgds, Stephane ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_a68386836e63444b940d5d49fcf39496XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stephane –<= /o:p>

 

The use case for this = proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence of a controller.

If the WG agrees that = this use case needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good = and viable compromise.

 

I say “compromis= e” because – as you mention below – ELC/ELRD are function= ally node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires signaling betwee= n AS’s and the vehicle we have for doing that is a prefix advertiseme= nt. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with a prefix – but no= t do so for ERLD.

This seems reasonable = to me.

 

One change to what you= state below – I think “when a prefix is leaked or redistribute= d, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST = also be leaked/redistributed.”.

 

   Les<= /o:p>

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-e= lc

 

Hi WG,

 

Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how= to encode the entropy label capability for SR but we hadn’t found a = consensus on the target solution.

IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face va= rious people that have participated to this discussion.

 

Following this discussion, we are coming with the fo= llowing proposal that the WG need to validate:

 

The entropy label capability is still considered as = a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC p= er linecard).

The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for s= implicity reason, we do not want to have an ERLD per linecard).<= /p>

 

However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not bel= onging to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes.

A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running = the same protocol or a different one) are redistributing routes between eac= h other.

The inter-area use case is also creating a similar s= ituation.

 

When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a= segment  it must ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy l= abel capable otherwise packets will be dropped.

 

As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, t= he entropy label capability of the node who has firstly originated the pref= ix, should be associated to the prefix during the redistribution.

 

In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an ent= ropy label capability for each prefix advertised by a node.

The entropy label capability will be encoded as part= of the Prefix Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684).

The entropy label capability may be set for local pr= efixes (e.g. loopbacks) by a local configuration and for leaked/redistribut= ed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated t= o the prefix may be also leaked/redistributed.

 

An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node= /Prefix segment only if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as= the ELC set in the Prefix Attributes.

An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adj= acency segment only if the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertise= d the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable).

 

For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the= signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts.

 

 

Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal = so we can progress these documents.

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p>
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
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As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_a68386836e63444b940d5d49fcf39496XCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 19 10:28:53 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2AA8130E8E for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4fn8xkw8O6H for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B250130E34 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id g189so2481696pgc.5 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=Puw3fS4YfM+a6u8xbTT6ZvB+trj01OpHb3ZP6GdGlIE=; b=VxxVbMSfTT6LfPEQTqbczIm6X3f1+XDKCnHF80GKxRqf/FEJeUHlbaL/3prAm3TplH djbAtaQPZ7wbjB+rfnCfDC0qc7eYbaON4VZ5vCOFB8n/l/o1fIqdsABsAWMktCly5gS8 Jj9wG3hnjfCGqtd+RbuftqpCauDVJctSmRtHSEDq4njJPgXYP+TjbUpC/BAtgwyxPXXq xyDTXHWpGd6Ibp8PfaiZOx+RzF9VpNqwozK9hxMBIPZPfZN2SgZw9G7LMG1q/1YyaWHe bxIMDxovU6gXY87ur+DlPH6TY0Te+OE0SX1En7gNM3UyqsNIEOoOHCCL5ckegr3CFhkl Lg3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=Puw3fS4YfM+a6u8xbTT6ZvB+trj01OpHb3ZP6GdGlIE=; b=EnU+ej9Cae2IxO7agxtSbLB9fCaxeSSpkbZOIDy5AN209hm5hE9MDoHf/PuT8TtLzh YGpit2qFvhPD8ZCSUyMIBkvSDu1K6Jv7KAqvOPf29z1McDrbc4Oe2TQJhG4Uha1BUv3D 5YqyqJQNAjZcjLyt5FInIqMfYQkdFlIT35T9Mq4W0CVcpOO8gd1tvCmzjxs3rpkAbDIG 1wOX/35S4PtidtehWBGn5AmHC6zUrTgyVx8JpKET2hDBKvV/1zsJcVxURMQrnOzv/ZU+ YN1jY6/d+dVrfHXRWSuWfz/zWESELU0iobFcELJFXEjirVzCGykw/cshCFNrRR/BL15X 2BCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJqs7+xuq3oZj3YdxuGG21IzpXxwtEr/dV4Px+r94tPvgNhcwvs /oEJFthKxvSKJYs8pTq4zo/egIUL X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eBYpS4oLZhP4XZRqTKXhikvan1314QpM1ThPW/q0NmzCBzbOI5DyHvQUXhVHSpvEyJdRbIYQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:220d:: with SMTP id i13mr12815789pfi.162.1542652121748; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r130sm1688623pfr.48.2018.11.19.10.28.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:41 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_49EA7E14-4445-4559-9C18-99BDCD500FF1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:28:40 -0800 To: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] On flooding, diameter, and degree X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:28:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_49EA7E14-4445-4559-9C18-99BDCD500FF1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, I=E2=80=99d like to expound a bit more on a point that I made at the = mike in Bangkok. The figures of merit for a flooding algorithm are the resulting diameter = of the flooding topology and the maximum degree of the nodes in the = topology. The diameter is important because it says how many hops an link state = update will have to traverse before it covers the topology. This = dictates what the convergence time of the network will be. The degree is important because it is the measure of the amount of = replication that a node will have to do during flooding, and, more = importantly, it is also a bound on the number of times that a node can = receive replicas of the same update. If the degree is too high, then = the node can be overwhelmed by an influx of flooding, resulting in = instability. For a flooding algorithm to be seriously considered, it is important to = characterize these results and understand how they grow under scale. In = particular, I=E2=80=99m concerned about tree based algorithms because = they typically have a large diameter because the tree is tall and = spindly, or they end up with a large degree, because the tree is quite = bushy. I would very much like to see candidate algorithms present how they = perform. Here=E2=80=99s a few data points from our algorithm simulations, just = for comparison: Graph Diameter Degree =20 K4,17 4 10 K4,40 4 23 K8,80 4 22 K8,200 4 53 K16,200 6 28 K20,400 5 45 K40,800 6 43 Thanks, Tony --Apple-Mail=_49EA7E14-4445-4559-9C18-99BDCD500FF1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi all,

I=E2=80=99d like to = expound a bit more on a point that I made at the mike in = Bangkok.

The = figures of merit for a flooding algorithm are the resulting diameter of = the flooding topology and the maximum degree of the nodes in the = topology.

The = diameter is important because it says how many hops an link state update = will have to traverse before it covers the topology. This dictates what = the convergence time of the network will be.

The degree is important because it is = the measure of the amount of replication that a node will have to do = during flooding, and, more importantly, it is also a bound on the number = of times that a node can receive replicas of the same update.  If = the degree is too high, then the node can be overwhelmed by an influx of = flooding, resulting in instability.

For a flooding algorithm to be = seriously considered, it is important to characterize these results and = understand how they grow under scale.  In particular, I=E2=80=99m = concerned about tree based algorithms because they typically have a = large diameter because the tree is tall and spindly, or they end up with = a large degree, because the tree is quite bushy.

I would very much like to see candidate = algorithms present how they perform.

Here=E2=80=99s a few data points from = our algorithm simulations, just for comparison:

Graph      Diameter       =  Degree                 =       
K4,17      4   =             10
K4,40     =  4               = 23
K8,80=      4               = 22
K8,200     4           =     53
K16,200    6           =     28
K20,400    5           =     45
K40,800    6           =     43

Thanks,
Tony



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\(3445.9.1\)) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:12:51 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" To: David Allan I References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] On flooding, diameter, and degree X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:12:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2CFDBCA6-0CC4-4316-9F66-BF57D3C1A784 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dave, Thanks very much for commenting. I=E2=80=99m a bit confused about your = column =E2=80=9CReceipt Degree=E2=80=9D and perhaps how flooding works = in your proposal. Let=E2=80=99s use the example from your section 4.2, where =E2=80=98a=E2=80= =99 and =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99 are the roots and there are only two tiers. Suppose that =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 has an update. It replicates to all = lower nodes, except that the link from =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=993=E2= =80=99 has failed. Per section 4.4, it seems like this is an update received from an = upstream member adjacency. Since this is only a two-tier system, the = lower nodes have no downstream nodes, so they do not replicate back to = the upstream. How do nodes =E2=80=98b=E2=80=99 .. =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99 = ever get the update? How does =E2=80=983=E2=80=99? If I=E2=80=99m misunderstanding 4.4, and all of =E2=80=98i=E2=80=99, = =E2=80=A6, =E2=80=98x=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=A6, = =E2=80=99n=E2=80=99 replicate back to =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99, then = doesn=E2=80=99t it have a receipt degree higher than 2? Or are =E2=80=98i=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=99n=E2=80=99 special cases that do = upstream replication, resulting in paths a - i - z - 3 and a - n - z - = 3? Very confused, Tony > On Nov 19, 2018, at 1:44 PM, David Allan I = wrote: >=20 > HI Tony: > =20 > Re: draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm=E2=80=A6.=20 > =20 > My draft falls under the =E2=80=9Cbushy=E2=80=9D class of solutions, = to borrow your terminology.=20 > =20 > So mapping to your datapoints and translating what I presented in = Bangkok to actual numbers: > =20 > Graph Fault free Single Fault Replication Receipt =20= > Diameter Worst case Degree Degree > Diameter =20 > K4,17 2 3 17 2 > K4,40 2 3 40 2 > K8,80 2 3 80 2 > K8,200 2 3 200 2 > K16,200 2 3 200 2 > K20,400 2 3 400 2 > K40,800 2 3 800 2 > =20 > Worst case occurs when an inter node link fails, as the LSA from one = end of the link needs to loop back via the other root to the node at the = other end of the failed link. > =20 > Rgds > Dave > =20 > From: Lsr On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:29 AM > To: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: [Lsr] On flooding, diameter, and degree > =20 > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > I=E2=80=99d like to expound a bit more on a point that I made at the = mike in Bangkok. > =20 > The figures of merit for a flooding algorithm are the resulting = diameter of the flooding topology and the maximum degree of the nodes in = the topology. > =20 > The diameter is important because it says how many hops an link state = update will have to traverse before it covers the topology. This = dictates what the convergence time of the network will be. > =20 > The degree is important because it is the measure of the amount of = replication that a node will have to do during flooding, and, more = importantly, it is also a bound on the number of times that a node can = receive replicas of the same update. If the degree is too high, then = the node can be overwhelmed by an influx of flooding, resulting in = instability. > =20 > For a flooding algorithm to be seriously considered, it is important = to characterize these results and understand how they grow under scale. = In particular, I=E2=80=99m concerned about tree based algorithms because = they typically have a large diameter because the tree is tall and = spindly, or they end up with a large degree, because the tree is quite = bushy. > =20 > I would very much like to see candidate algorithms present how they = perform. > =20 > Here=E2=80=99s a few data points from our algorithm simulations, just = for comparison: > =20 > Graph Diameter Degree =20 > K4,17 4 10 > K4,40 4 23 > K8,80 4 22 > K8,200 4 53 > K16,200 6 28 > K20,400 5 45 > K40,800 6 43 > =20 > Thanks, > Tony --Apple-Mail=_2CFDBCA6-0CC4-4316-9F66-BF57D3C1A784 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Dave,

Thanks very much for commenting. =  I=E2=80=99m a bit confused about your column =E2=80=9CReceipt = Degree=E2=80=9D and perhaps how flooding works in your = proposal.

Let=E2=80=99s use the example from your section 4.2, where = =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99 are the roots and there are = only two tiers.

Suppose that =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 has an update.  It = replicates to all lower nodes, except that the link from =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99= to =E2=80=993=E2=80=99 has failed.

Per section 4.4, it seems like this is = an update received from an upstream member adjacency. Since this is only = a two-tier system, the lower nodes have no downstream nodes, so they do = not replicate back to the upstream.  How do nodes =E2=80=98b=E2=80=99= .. =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99 ever get the update? How does =E2=80=983=E2=80=99?=

If I=E2=80=99m = misunderstanding 4.4, and all of =E2=80=98i=E2=80=99, =E2=80=A6, = =E2=80=98x=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=A6, =E2=80=99n=E2=80=99= replicate back to =E2=80=98z=E2=80=99, then doesn=E2=80=99t it have a = receipt degree higher than 2?

Or are =E2=80=98i=E2=80=99 and =E2=80=99n= =E2=80=99 special cases that do upstream replication, resulting in paths = a - i - z - 3 and a - n - z - 3?

Very confused,
Tony






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--_004_CO1PR15MB1095B2BD1CCECF817C623F66D0D80CO1PR15MB1095namp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 19 17:52:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 682FA1292AD; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:52:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uvlCLypxmhN3; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7E54128C65; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0E3D028603B27; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:52:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:52:13 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.171]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:52:06 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "julien.meuric@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 Thread-Index: AQHUe526dSPtnSYkHEyCurv+AS1R46VQarGAgAAEuYCAAVl0wIAAF0AAgAYPOMA= Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:52:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <11985_1542294064_5BED8A30_11985_324_6_9a8baf2a-ea10-02db-7550-268f88b7a66e@orange.com> <9FCA225D-C4A4-4DEC-B5D2-942C3AC78EA0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9FCA225D-C4A4-4DEC-B5D2-942C3AC78EA0@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Poll for IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery - draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-00 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:52:19 -0000 SSBhbSBoYXBweSB0byB1cGRhdGUgUkZDNTA4OCBhbmQgUkZDNTA4OSB0byBhbGxvdyBhZHZlcnRp 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Restart Signaling for IS-IS Thread-Index: AQHUgFZKcJQaAjWOZUa249M4IQn8WaVX5LjQ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:57:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1e5e2e0c733644689749b0b77ba6ff3d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.169] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1e5e2e0c733644689749b0b77ba6ff3dXCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.21, xch-aln-011.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-00 - Restart Signaling for IS-IS X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:57:57 -0000 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<9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, In-Reply-To: x-aliyun-mail-creator: W4_5404398_v5ForWebDing_QvNTW96aWxsYS81LjAgKE1hY2ludG9zaDsgSW50ZWwgTWFjIE9TIFggMTBfMTJfNikgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNjA0LjUuNiAoS0hUTUwsIGxpa2UgR2Vja28pIFZlcnNpb24vMTEuMC4zIFNhZmFyaS82MDQuNS42La Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=ALIBOUNDARY_78179_48bf7940_5bf36e77_dd1ee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc_=26_draft-ietf-ospf-mpl?= =?utf-8?q?s-elc?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 02:16:36 -0000 ------=ALIBOUNDARY_78179_48bf7940_5bf36e77_dd1ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLAoKSU1ITywgaXQgc2VlbXMgYSBsaXR0bGUgYml0IG9kZCB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGludGVy 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[73.189.13.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y6sm14867651pfl.187.2018.11.19.21.16.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Nov 2018 21:16:57 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-DEC0D22A-E9C1-41C6-A332-9DF1C6EF7026 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16B92) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 21:16:56 -0800 Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-00 - Restart Signaling for IS-IS X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 05:17:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail-DEC0D22A-E9C1-41C6-A332-9DF1C6EF7026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes/support=20 Regards, Jeff > On Nov 19, 2018, at 14:22, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > The begins a Working Group Last Call for the subject document. Please post= for review comments and/or support/objection to this document before 12:00 A= M UTC on Tuesday, December 4th, 2018. > =20 > Other than some RFC boiler plate changes, the RFC 5306 BIS document really= only adds the PR/PA bit handling in section 2.2.3 and the addition of the P= lanned Restart State to sections 3.1 and 3.2. > =20 > Thanks, > Acee > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --Apple-Mail-DEC0D22A-E9C1-41C6-A332-9DF1C6EF7026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes/support 

Regards,
Jeff

On Nov 19, 2018, at 14:22, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

The begins a Working Group Last Call for the subject document. Please post for review comments and/or support/objection to this document before 12:00 AM UTC on Tuesday, December 4th, 2018.

 

Other than some RFC boiler plate changes, the RFC 5306 BIS document really only adds the PR/PA bit handling in section 2.2.3 and the addition of the Planned Restart State to sections 3.1 and 3.2.

 

Thanks,

Acee

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--Apple-Mail-DEC0D22A-E9C1-41C6-A332-9DF1C6EF7026-- From nobody Mon Nov 19 22:41:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB1B1292AD; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:41:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WlCZ3MpdRdht; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:41:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from m17616.mail.qiye.163.com (m17616.mail.qiye.163.com [59.111.176.16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027A1128B14; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m17616.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 651D6101626; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 14:41:24 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , , Cc: References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 14:41:25 +0800 Message-ID: <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0125_01D480DF.1DA482D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdR4OJWYmH00pYTzTK6gvxR+PFXbGgH+ARaQABqGrWA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kIGBQJHllBS1VLV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWS1ZQUlXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6MBA6Szo6ODkRKzE9LB86HkNP KChPC0hVSlVKTk9JTUJNS0JLQ0xNVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWVdZCAFZQUlPQ0pKNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a672fda24519374kuws651d6101626 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogW3NwcmluZ10gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pc2lzLW1w?= =?gb2312?b?bHMtZWxjICYgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLW1wbHMtZWxj?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 06:41:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0125_01D480DF.1DA482D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Les and Stephane: =20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-ext-00 = is trying to solve what you are concerning for. As you said, ELC/ERLD are functionally node capabilities, but when we = try to send traffic, we should consider the prefixes itself. The above draft proposal to add prefix originator to address this. After getting this information, the receiver can then build the relationship between prefixes and ELC/ERLD. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 2:00 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; lsr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: spring@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Stephane =A8C =20 The use case for this proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence of a controller. If the WG agrees that this use case needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good and viable compromise. =20 I say =A1=B0compromise=A1=B1 because =A8C as you mention below =A8C = ELC/ELRD are functionally node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires = signaling between AS=A1=AFs and the vehicle we have for doing that is a prefix advertisement. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with a = prefix =A8C but not do so for ERLD. This seems reasonable to me. =20 One change to what you state below =A8C I think =A1=B0when a prefix is = leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST also be leaked/redistributed.=A1=B1. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Lsr On Behalf Of = stephane.litkowski@orange.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Hi WG, =20 Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how to encode the = entropy label capability for SR but we hadn=A1=AFt found a consensus on the = target solution. IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various people that = have participated to this discussion. =20 Following this discussion, we are coming with the following proposal = that the WG need to validate: =20 The entropy label capability is still considered as a per node property = (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC per linecard). The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we = do not want to have an ERLD per linecard). =20 However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes. A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or = a different one) are redistributing routes between each other. The inter-area use case is also creating a similar situation. =20 When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a segment it must = ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy label capable otherwise = packets will be dropped. =20 As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, the entropy label capability of the node who has firstly originated the prefix, should be associated to the prefix during the redistribution. =20 In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy label = capability for each prefix advertised by a node. The entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684). The entropy label capability may be set for local prefixes (e.g. = loopbacks) by a local configuration and for leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix may = be also leaked/redistributed. =20 An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix segment only = if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the ELC set in the Prefix Attributes. An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adjacency segment only = if the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertised the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable). =20 For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts.=20 =20 =20 Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we can progress = these documents. =20 Brgds, =20 Stephane =20 _________________________________________________________________________= ___ _____________________________________________ =20 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme = ou falsifie. Merci. =20 This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0125_01D480DF.1DA482D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Les and = Stephane:

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-prefix-originato= r-ext-00 is trying to solve what you are concerning = for.

As you said, ELC/ERLD are = functionally node capabilities, but when we try to send traffic, we = should consider the prefixes itself.

The above draft proposal to add = prefix originator to address this. After getting this information, the = receiver can then build the relationship between prefixes and = ELC/ERLD.

 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 2:00
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: = stephane.litkowski@orange.com; = lsr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = spring@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] = draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Stephane = =A8C

 

The use = case for this proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence = of a controller.

If the WG agrees that this use case = needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good and viable = compromise.

 

I say = =A1=B0compromise=A1=B1 because =A8C as you mention below =A8C ELC/ELRD = are functionally node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires = signaling between AS=A1=AFs and the vehicle we have for doing that is a = prefix advertisement. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with = a prefix =A8C but not do so for ERLD.

This seems = reasonable to me.

 

One change = to what you state below =A8C I think =A1=B0when a prefix is leaked or = redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST also be = leaked/redistributed.=A1=B1.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@orange.c= om
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM
To: = lsr@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: = [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Hi WG,

 

Some discussions occurred on the = mailing list on how to encode the entropy label capability for SR but we = hadn=A1=AFt found a consensus on the target = solution.

IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various = people that have participated to this = discussion.

 

Following this discussion, we are coming with the following = proposal that the WG need to validate:

 

The entropy label capability is = still considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do = not want to have an ELC per linecard).

The ERLD is considered as a per = node property (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ERLD per = linecard).

 

However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging = to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the = nodes.

A = typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or a = different one) are redistributing routes between each = other.

The = inter-area use case is also creating a similar = situation.

 

When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a = segment  it must ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy = label capable otherwise packets will be dropped.

 

As a consequence, when prefixes are = redistributed, the entropy label capability of the node who has firstly = originated the prefix, should be associated to the prefix during the = redistribution.

 

In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy = label capability for each prefix advertised by a = node.

The = entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix = Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684).

The entropy label capability may be = set for local prefixes (e.g. loopbacks) by a local configuration and for = leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, = the ELC associated to the prefix may be also = leaked/redistributed.

 

An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix = segment only if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the = ELC set in the Prefix Attributes.

An ingress should set the entropy = label below an Adjacency segment only if the adjacent neighbor of the = node that has advertised the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is = entropy label capable).

 

For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the = signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts. =

 

 

Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we = can progress these documents.

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

____________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________<=
/span>
 
Ce =
message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent =
donc
pas etre diffuses, =
exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par =
erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. =
Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles =
d'alteration,
Orange =
decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.
 
This =
message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by =
law;
they should not be =
distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.
If you =
have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete =
this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages =
that have been modified, changed or =
falsified.
Thank =
you.
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00:52:19 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Aijun Wang , "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc Thread-Index: AdR4OJWYmH00pYTzTK6gvxR+PFXbGgH+ARaQABqGrWAAAHMhgA== Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 06:52:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.42.169] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c5e73da276944c0ab38efea85facb531XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 06:52:24 -0000 --_000_c5e73da276944c0ab38efea85facb531XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWlqdW4gqEMNCg0KSW4gdGhlIGludGVyLUFTIGNhc2UsIHdoYXQgaXMgbmVlZGVkIGlzIHRvIGtu b3cgRUxDIG9mIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hdGluZyBub2RlLiBTaW1wbHkga25vd2luZyB3aG8gdGhlIG9y aWdpbmF0b3Igb2YgYW4gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlbWVudCBpcyBub3Qgc3VmZmljaWVudC4NCg0KSWYgRUxD IGlzIGFkdmVydGlzZWQgYXMgYSBub2RlIGNhcGFiaWxpdHksIHRoZW4gYSBjb250cm9sbGVyIHdp dGggYWNjZXNzIHRvIEJHUC1MUyBkYXRhYmFzZSBmb3IgYm90aCBBU3MgY291bGQgZGV0ZXJtaW5l IEVMQyBieSBwaWVjaW5nIHRvZ2V0aGVyIHRoZSBub2RlIGNhcGFiaWxpdHkgYWR2ZXJ0aXNlbWVu dCBhbmQgdGhlIHByZWZpeCBhZHZlcnRpc2VtZW50IHcgb3JpZ2luYXRpbmcgcm91dGVyLWlkLg0K 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Aijun =A8C

 

In the inter-AS case, what is needed is to know ELC of the originating= node. Simply knowing who the originator of an advertisement is not suffici= ent.

 

If ELC is advertised as a node capability, then a controller with acce= ss to BGP-LS database for both ASs could determine ELC by piecing together = the node capability advertisement and the prefix advertisement w originating router-id.

 

But what Stephane has proposed for the inter-AS case is a way to know = ELC in the absence of a controller.

This means nodes in AS #1 need to have ELC capability info for nodes i= n AS #2.

As there is no way to redistribute IGP Node Capability advertisements = between different IGP instances, the alternative is to advertise ELC associ= ated with a prefix advertisement since the prefix advertisement can be redistributed between IGP instances.<= /o:p>

Knowing the originator of the prefix is necessary, but it is not suffi= cient.

 

Hope this is clear.

 

    Les

 

 

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.c= n>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:41 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; stephane.lit= kowski@orange.com; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: =B4=F0=B8= =B4: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-el= c

 

Hi, L= es and Stephane:

=  

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-ext-= 00 is trying to solve what you are concerning for.

As yo= u said, ELC/ERLD are functionally node capabilities, but when we try to sen= d traffic, we should consider the prefixes itself.

The a= bove draft proposal to add prefix originator to address this. After getting= this information, the receiver can then build the relationship between pre= fixes and ELC/ERLD.

=  

=  

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang<= /span>

Network R&D and Op= eration Support Department

China Telecom Corporat= ion Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

=  

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 2:00
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; lsr@ietf= .org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: spring@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-is= is-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Stephane =A8C

 

The use case for this = proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence of a controller.

If the WG agrees that = this use case needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good = and viable compromise.

 

I say =A1=B0compromise= =A1=B1 because =A8C as you mention below =A8C ELC/ELRD are functionally nod= e capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires signaling between AS=A1= =AFs and the vehicle we have for doing that is a prefix advertisement. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with a prefix =A8C but not d= o so for ERLD.

This seems reasonable = to me.

 

One change to what you= state below =A8C I think =A1=B0when a prefix is leaked or redistributed, t= he ELC associated to the prefix MUST = also be leaked/redistributed.=A1=B1.

 

   Les<= /o:p>

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of stepha= ne.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-e= lc

 

Hi WG,

 

Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how= to encode the entropy label capability for SR but we hadn=A1=AFt found a c= onsensus on the target solution.

IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face va= rious people that have participated to this discussion.

 

Following this discussion, we are coming with the fo= llowing proposal that the WG need to validate:

 

The entropy label capability is still considered as = a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC p= er linecard).

The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for s= implicity reason, we do not want to have an ERLD per linecard).<= /p>

 

However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not bel= onging to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes.

A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running = the same protocol or a different one) are redistributing routes between eac= h other.

The inter-area use case is also creating a similar s= ituation.

 

When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a= segment  it must ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy l= abel capable otherwise packets will be dropped.

 

As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, t= he entropy label capability of the node who has firstly originated the pref= ix, should be associated to the prefix during the redistribution.

 

In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an ent= ropy label capability for each prefix advertised by a node.

The entropy label capability will be encoded as part= of the Prefix Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684).

The entropy label capability may be set for local pr= efixes (e.g. loopbacks) by a local configuration and for leaked/redistribut= ed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated t= o the prefix may be also leaked/redistributed.

 

An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node= /Prefix segment only if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as= the ELC set in the Prefix Attributes.

An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adj= acency segment only if the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertise= d the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable).

 

For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the= signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts.

 

 

Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal = so we can progress these documents.

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

_=
___________________________________________________________________________=
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UkU+PC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D503OPEXCLILMA4corp_-- From nobody Mon Nov 19 23:56:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737C3124408 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 23:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07Va9r9yERk8 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 23:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7750D128B14 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2018 23:56:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=666; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542700598; x=1543910198; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M1z1YCGVy1fUUl/yfYD6kJfr5bXp4ax7Q7P1jZnrT8Y=; b=hXo9CBwvmhq24ejQywsWdLbpnRTvFAlk3oHk6BloxboyPUtjmGqoAqkR g9jJK3W0kAuQq2tm6SPO9QxbyuENylmuKL6L79xqFMNcNP0pH+Nfnk13Y STBjc9TuZciOkT+s86up2uAVC83cvd87/TlKjs++ZRmCl2in+QV0iefsv 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,256,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8170891" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Nov 2018 07:56:36 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAK7uZlh025197; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 07:56:36 GMT Message-ID: <5BF3BE34.6050405@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:56:36 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-00 - Restart Signaling for IS-IS X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 07:56:42 -0000 I support this work. thanks, Peter On 19/11/18 23:22 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > The begins a Working Group Last Call for the subject document. Please > post for review comments and/or support/objection to this document > before 12:00 AM UTC on Tuesday, December 4^th , 2018. > > Other than some RFC boiler plate changes, the RFC 5306 BIS document > really only adds the PR/PA bit handling in section 2.2.3 and the > addition of the Planned Restart State to sections 3.1 and 3.2. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Tue Nov 20 00:10:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC1B1292AD; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:10:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, 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<9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <2ca6d24d-18f2-4df2-ab04-64ece1d4031b.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>, <3489_1542698391_5BF3B597_3489_286_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D503@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <3489_1542698391_5BF3B597_3489_286_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D503@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> x-aliyun-mail-creator: W4_5404398_v5ForWebDing_QvNTW96aWxsYS81LjAgKE1hY2ludG9zaDsgSW50ZWwgTWFjIE9TIFggMTBfMTJfNikgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNjA0LjUuNiAoS0hUTUwsIGxpa2UgR2Vja28pIFZlcnNpb24vMTEuMC4zIFNhZmFyaS82MDQuNS42La Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=ALIBOUNDARY_108446_4def4940_5bf3c14f_e1c3e1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?=5Bspring=5D__draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc_=26_draft?= =?utf-8?q?-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group 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PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXYgIHN0eWxlPSJsaW5lLWhlaWdodDoyMC4wcHg7Y2xlYXI6Ym90aDsi PjxiciA+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+ ------=ALIBOUNDARY_108446_4def4940_5bf3c14f_e1c3e1-- From nobody Tue Nov 20 00:25:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358B612D4EB; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:25:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c5IHHaH2DLJm; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C10F1292AD; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42zf055kvPzBsWf; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.18]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 42zf054dsZz3wbK; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:25:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cba:56d0:a732:ef5a%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:25:09 +0100 From: To: =?utf-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?= , spring , Lsr , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "spring@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc Thread-Index: AQHUgKiH4YCwrVdAoESEv/Qy2iyI8aVYU2KA Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:25:09 +0000 Message-ID: <12805_1542702309_5BF3C4E5_12805_182_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D5BD@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <2ca6d24d-18f2-4df2-ab04-64ece1d4031b.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>, <3489_1542698391_5BF3B597_3489_286_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D503@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <37ba0ffd-aff7-46e3-933e-d20f178df90a.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <37ba0ffd-aff7-46e3-933e-d20f178df90a.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D5BDOPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:25:15 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D5BDOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2UgY2Fu4oCZdCBmb3Igc29tZSBpbnRlcm5hbCBkZXNpZ24vc2VjdXJpdHkgcmVhc29ucy4NCg0K RnJvbTogTHNyIFttYWlsdG86bHNyLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiA/Pz8o Pz8pDQpTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAyMCwgMjAxOCAwOToxMA0KVG86IHNwcmluZzsg THNyOyBsc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCkNjOiBzcHJpbmdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHNy XSBbc3ByaW5nXSBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWlzaXMtbXBscy1lbGMgJiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW9zcGYtbXBs cy1lbGMNCg0KV2h5IG5vdCBkaXJlY3RseSB1c2UgdGhlIEJHUCBvdmVyIFNSIG1vZGVsIGp1c3Qg bGlrZSB0aGUgQkdQIG92ZXIgTERQIG1vZGVsPw0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpYaWFvaHUNCg0K 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<9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn>, In-Reply-To: x-aliyun-mail-creator: W4_5404398_v5ForWebDing_QvNTW96aWxsYS81LjAgKE1hY2ludG9zaDsgSW50ZWwgTWFjIE9TIFggMTBfMTJfNikgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNjA0LjUuNiAoS0hUTUwsIGxpa2UgR2Vja28pIFZlcnNpb24vMTEuMC4zIFNhZmFyaS82MDQuNS42La Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=ALIBOUNDARY_24039_47340940_5bf3c748_b2c71f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] =?utf-8?q?=5Bspring=5D_draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc_=26_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-ospf-mpls-elc?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:35:35 -0000 ------=ALIBOUNDARY_24039_47340940_5bf3c748_b2c71f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154270588540.18411.7232664047014948402@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:24:45 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-19.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:24:45 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPFv3 Extensions for Segment Routing Authors : Peter Psenak Stefano Previdi Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-19.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2018-11-20 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". These segments are advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF). This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required for Segment Routing with MPLS data plane. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 20 01:30:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AAD12D4EF; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:30:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSbMbDjW8Xi2; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:30:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3795A1292AD; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 01:30:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3494; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1542706255; x=1543915855; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=O1cLKBmVZAwu+OvW+Gje9PRz5o6oPFu6duHo9bpU2fM=; b=aI8x7VKY0xaCtSuv47DA1A2NADVOul0+OIi3/mW9SFJnX82RS6DPVA4O +zv+B6e/n7Zy9PZtPlaGFODrkq/VGJQhrlTPPEGDNVt6c7U8YRzsbduME TA1z0vmdMAkpy9hV1Vbqnn4TEoTJ6TJukSliTKFadD4URLEv6YqKQPb59 U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,256,1539648000"; d="scan'208";a="8115994" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Nov 2018 09:30:53 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.21] ([10.147.24.21]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wAK9UpWD003397; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:30:52 GMT Message-ID: <5BF3D44A.1070403@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 10:30:50 +0100 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alvaro Retana , draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org CC: lsr@ietf.org, Joe Clarke References: <154058293310.8782.9766839380541329981@ietfa.amsl.com> <5BD848FF.7060400@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.21, [10.147.24.21] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-16 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:30:58 -0000 Hi Alvaro, done. Have some issues posting the new ospfv2 draft, so requested manual posting. thanks, Peter On 16/11/18 22:40 , Alvaro Retana wrote: > [Took the ops-dir and the ietf@ietf lists off.] > > Hi! > > Joe makes a really good point below about the TLV types and RFC7770. It > looks like we all missed it! :-( > > To quote Peter (from a message in this thread), "I don't think it is > good to specify the behavior which is described somewhere else.” > > Looking at -18, Section 4 > (draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions) has the exact same > text [*] as Section 3 in draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions. > Given that the IANA allocation is done > in draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, and > that draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions refers back to > it, then I would like to see the following changes: > > (1) In draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, Section 3: > > > These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Information Opaque > LSA (defined in [RFC7770]). > > > These SR capabilities are advertised in the Router Information Opaque > LSA (defined in [RFC7770]). The TLVs defined below are applicable to > both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3; see also > [ID.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions]. > > …and add an Informative reference to > draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions. > > (2) In draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions, replace the > entire Section 4 with: > > " > Segment Routing requires some additional router capabilities to be > advertised to other routers in the area. > > These SR capabilities are advertised in the OSPFv3 Router Information > Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770]), and specified in > [ID.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions]. > “ > > > Even though draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions is already with > the RFC Editor, it is waiting > for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls, so we can still make > changes. Please submit a new version (and send an update of the XML to > the rfc-editor). > > I am scheduling draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions on the > Dec/6 IESG Telechat. Please submit an update before the end of this month. > > Thanks!! > > Alvaro. > > > > [*] Except for the OSPFv3 being specifically called out, and a couple of > other minor points. > > On October 30, 2018 at 8:05:27 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com > ) wrote: > >> > With respect to TLV types 8, 9, 14, and 15, they are defined in >> > draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, and it took me a while to figure >> > out where you were getting those values and why they weren't spelled out in the >> > IANA considerations. You have a normative reference to this, which is good, >> > but you only mention it with respect to the algorithm parameters. I think >> > another mention is required. >> > >> > I'm going to be pedantic here. According to RFC7770, when a new OSPF Router >> > Information LSA TLV is defined, the spec needs to explicitly state if it's >> > applicable to OSPFv2, v3, or both. While you reference the TLVs from >> > draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions, I didn't see that either document >> > _explicitly_ states that they are applicable to both. >> >> ##PP >> added the following to each of the values: >> >> Type: X as defined in [I-D.ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions] and >> aplicable to OSPFv3. From nobody Tue Nov 20 02:00:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C883412F18C; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 02:00:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 883gpTRAwU91; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 02:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35A1712D4F1; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 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<8003_1542708052_5BF3DB54_8003_416_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D796@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn>, <40e4b72b-4e6d-4450-a2f7-39f731a87672.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <40e4b72b-4e6d-4450-a2f7-39f731a87672.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B76D796OPEXCLILMA4corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 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X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy: Received: from alcoop-m-c46z.fios-router.home (pool-108-51-101-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.51.101.98]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A21A1102A0; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 15:41:58 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 15:41:57 -0500 Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric.all@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6BDEE760-BD1F-4CFA-A5DD-F359D6ACCA1B@cooperw.in> References: <153979199224.27586.17724630615593051025@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" , Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-15 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 20:42:04 -0000 Stewart, thanks for your review. Naiming, thanks for your responses. I = have entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Oct 21, 2018, at 5:21 PM, Naiming Shen (naiming) = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Stewart, >=20 > Thanks for detailed review and comments, please see some > replies inline. the modified version diff is attached, please reivew. >=20 > thanks. > - Naiming >=20 > >=20 >> On Oct 17, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Stewart Bryant = wrote: >>=20 >> Reviewer: Stewart Bryant >> Review result: Ready with Issues >>=20 >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just >> like any other last call comments. >>=20 >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>=20 >> . >>=20 >> Document: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-15 >> Reviewer: Stewart Bryant >> Review Date: 2018-10-17 >> IETF LC End Date: 2018-10-17 >> IESG Telechat date: 2018-11-21 >>=20 >> Summary: Generally a well written document, but some earlier text on = what a >> reverse metric is and what it does would be very helpful to the = reader. Also >> the reader is left with the impression that the use of this gives = disruption >> free network changes, and yet it does not discuss microloops. >>=20 >> Major issues: None >>=20 >> Minor issues: >> 1.2. Distributed Forwarding Planes >>=20 >> >> Temporarily signaling >> the 'Reverse Metric' over this link to discourage the traffic via = the >>=20 >> SB> I know it's always chicken and egg, but it would be useful if a >> SB> clearer definition of reverse metric were provided before you >> SB> explained its use. >=20 > I have added a paragraph at the beginning of the Introduction = section >=20 >>=20 >> corresponding line-card will help to reduce the traffic loss in the >> network. In the meantime, the remote PE routers will select a >> different set of PE routers for the BGP best path calculation or use >> a different link towards the same PE router on which a line-card is >> resetting. >>=20 >> SB> Remember that when you change paths you have to deal with >> SB> microloops. >=20 > Well, this =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 is just like a normal = IS-IS metric change. > and microloops is implied. This document does not create new > condition or trying to address the issue. It assumes final = convergence > state will be reached for the mentioned use cases. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> 1.5. IS-IS Reverse Metric >>=20 >> This document uses the routing protocol itself as the transport >> mechanism to allow one IS-IS router to advertise a "reverse metric" >> in an IS-IS Hello (IIH) PDU to an adjacent node on a point-to-point >> or multi-access LAN link. This would allow the provisioning to be >> performed only on a single node, setting a "reverse metric" on a = link >> and have traffic bidirectionally shift away from that link = gracefully >> to alternate, viable paths. >>=20 >> SB> Again you need to be much clearer what a reverse metric is before >> SB> you cite the use cases and advantages. >=20 > added a new paragraph. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> 3.1. Processing Changes to Default Metric >>=20 >> It is important to use the same IS-IS metric type on both ends of = the >> link and in the entire IS-IS area or level. >>=20 >> SB> Isn't the point about links redundant given that it needs to be = the >> SB> same in the area/the level >=20 > This sentence is talking about it does not deal with the case of > one side of the link uses IS-IS wide metric, but the other side > of the link uses a narrow metric. It is saying it=E2=80=99s = broken and we > don=E2=80=99t support such a mixup, thus =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2= =80=99 also does not handle. >=20 >>=20 >> On the receiving side of >> the 'reverse-metric' TLV, the accumulated value of configured metric >> and the reverse-metric needs to be limited to 63 in "narrow" metric >> mode and to (2^24 - 2) in "wide" metric mode. >> This applies to both >> the Default Metric of Extended IS Reachability TLV and the Traffic >> Engineering Default Metric sub-TLV in LSP or Pseudonode LSP for the >> "wide" metric mode case. If the "U" bit is present in the flags, = the >> accumulated metric value is to be limited to (2^24 - 1) for both the >> normal link metric and Traffic Engineering metric in IS-IS "wide" >> metric mode. >>=20 >> SB> A clarifying note explaining the different usage of 2^24 - 1 and >> SB> 2^24 - 2 would be helpful to the reader. >=20 > Yes, added a sentence in the TLV definition part to describe them > in some detail. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> 3.2. Multi-Topology IS-IS Support on Point-to-point links >>=20 >> The Reverse Metric TLV is applicable to Multi-Topology IS-IS = (M-ISIS) >> [RFC5120]. On point-to-point links, if an IS-IS router is = configured >> for M-ISIS, it MUST send only a single Reverse Metric TLV in IIH = PDUs >> toward its neighbor(s) on the designated link. >>=20 >> SB> Might you not want to use this on a topology by topology basis? >> SB> For example you might want to bring up important typologies = first. >=20 > this document does not support that. The main reason is that the > pnode LSP is shared by all the topologies, and it=E2=80=99s not = per topology > pnode definition. For backwards competibility of this draft, it = follows > the same logic. Otherwise we need a flag day in the network to = use > =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> its >> inbound metric value to be the maximum and this puts the link of = this >> new node in the last resort position without impacting the other IS- >> IS nodes on the same LAN. >>=20 >> SB> It is only down in S3.4 that you provide this simple definition = of >> SB> reverse metric as the "inbound metric". It would be helpful to = have this >> SB> earlier in the text. >=20 > yes, indeed. a new paragraph is added. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> It is RECOMMENDED also that the CSPF does the immediate CSPF >> re-calculation when the Traffic Engineering metric is raised to = (2^24 >> - 2) to be the last resort link. >>=20 >> SB> Again it would help the reader if "link of last resort" was = earlier >> SB> in the text, >=20 > =E2=80=98link of last resort=E2=80=99 is only for certain use = cases, but not all. added > also in the TLV definition section. >=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> It is RECOMMENDED that implementations provide a capability to >> disable any changes by Reverse Metric mechanism through neighbor's >> Hello PDUs. >>=20 >> SB> Changes of what? That sentence does not seem to read very well. >=20 > added the =E2=80=9CIS-IS metric changes=E2=80=9D. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> If an implementation enables this mechanism by default, it is >> RECOMMENDED that it be disabled by the operators when not explicitly >> using it. >>=20 >> SB> Why not RECOMMEND that it be disabled by default, or perhaps >> SB> strengthen that to MUST be disabled by default. >=20 > As also replied also to Alvaro=E2=80=99s AD review comments, one = of the main > use case is for operational maintenance window to divert the = traffic > into certain links by using the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 = mechanism. If an operator > has to track down all the nodes on the LAN side of the links, and = to > manually enable the feature one by one correctly, then it defeats = the > purpose of this to simplify the operational use case here. >=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> it is highly RECOMMENDED that operators configure >> authentication of IS-IS PDUs to mitigate use of the Reverse Metric >> TLV as a potential attack vector. >>=20 >> SB> Not sure that you can qualify RFC2119 RECOMMENDED >=20 > changed to lower case. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >>> =46rom the IANA section >>=20 >> SB> Why is 18 chosen in an otherwise empty registry? >=20 > Originally, it inherits the same sub-TLV from IS-IS TE sub-TLV = RFC > RFC 5305, and the Traffic Engineering Metric sub-TLV is 18. > now this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV has it=E2=80=99s = own registry, but we keep the > number the same. >=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Regarding Appendix A and I think Appendix B >>=20 >> SB> As noted earlier you really need to talk about microloops. There >> SB> is no disruption free lunch available. >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> Nits/editorial comments: >>=20 >>> =46rom ID-nits >> ** Downref: Normative reference to an Informational RFC: RFC 5443 >> This is correctly dealt with in the LC >>=20 >> =3D=3D Outdated reference: A later version (-07) exists of >> draft-shen-isis-spine-leaf-ext-03 >> I am sure the RFC Editor will address, but could usefully be fixed in = any >> respin. >>=20 > Good catch. corrected. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Tue Nov 20 18:14:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95912124C04; Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:14:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric@ietf.org, Christian Hopps , aretana.ietf@gmail.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, chopps@chopps.org, lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <154276647860.29877.6964419270149869326.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:14:38 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Spencer Dawkins' Yes on draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:14:39 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-16: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I really enjoyed reading this specification. It reminds me of when I could understand routing :-) I have a few comments you might consider along with any other feedback you get during IESG Evaluation. This isn't my area of expertise, but is 3.5. Operational Guidelines For the use case in Section 1.1, a router SHOULD limit the duration of advertising a Reverse Metric TLV towards a neighbor only for the period of operational window. "period of operational window" common terminology in IS-IS-land? The MAY in Routers that receive a Reverse Metric TLV MAY send a syslog message or SNMP trap, in order to assist in rapidly identifying the node in the network that is advertising an IS-IS metric or Traffic Engineering parameters different from that which is configured locally on the device. doesn't seem like a BCP14 interworking requirement-type MAY. Is this text intended to say something like If routers that receive a Reverse Metric TLV send a syslog message or SNMP trap, this will assist in rapidly identifying the node in the network that is advertising an IS-IS metric or Traffic Engineering parameters different from that which is configured locally on the device. ? This text It is RECOMMENDED that implementations provide a capability to disable any IS-IS metric changes by Reverse Metric mechanism through neighbor's Hello PDUs. It can be to a node's individual interface Default Metric or Traffic Engineering parameters based upon receiving a properly formatted Reverse Metric TLVs. also seems like advice, not interworking requirements. Is this text intended to say something like It is advisable that implementations provide a capability to disable any IS-IS metric changes by Reverse Metric mechanism through neighbor's Hello PDUs. It can be to a node's individual interface Default Metric or Traffic Engineering parameters based upon receiving a properly formatted Reverse Metric TLVs. And while we're talking about that text, I'm not sure how clear "It can be to" is in the second sentence in that paragraph. Is this text intended to say something like This capability can disable IS-IS metric changes to either a node's individual interface Default Metric or Traffic Engineering parameters based upon receiving a properly formatted Reverse Metric TLVs. ? I'm not sure I can parse this text. The risks of misidentifying one side of a point-to-point link or one or more interfaces attached to a multi-access LAN and subsequently increasing its IS-IS metric and potentially increased latency, jitter or packet loss. I don't think it's a complete sentence ... From nobody Wed Nov 21 02:34:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB66912958B; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:34:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PMQozg4-s8hF; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D618C12F1A2; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.69]) by opfednr23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 430JpP1MLSz5wCQ; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:34:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.42]) by opfednr05.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 430JpP02d8zyQD; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:34:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM41.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c845:f762:8997:ec86%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:34:04 +0100 From: To: "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AdSBhYgiLVXk+bRuTn68pWj1+aWyiQ== Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:34:04 +0000 Message-ID: <576_1542796445_5BF5349D_576_261_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BE@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:34:10 -0000 --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_" --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Here are some comments I have on the model: =B7 The model should use the LSR WG as point of contact and no more= the OSPF WG =B7 In the feature multi-topology: s/-Topolgy/-Topology =B7 In the packet-type typedef: s/database-descripton/database-desc= ription. =B7 In the container lsa-log description: s/conatiner/container =B7 OSPF model has no keychain feature, while ISIS has one. We need= to agree on a common way to go. =B7 In the container link-tlvs, the link-type is an uint8 , wouldn'= t it be better to use an enum to get a description of what is the link type= ? =B7 Need to expand "af" to "address-family" everywhere in the model= (comments received from Yang doctor in the ISIS model review =3D> ISIS has= done this expansion). =B7 Ietf-spf-delay timers use uint16 while ISIS uses timer-value-mi= lliseconds =B7 The grouping instance-config has a "uses instance-fast-reroute-= state". It would be better to put it in the instance-state container. =B7 The model uses the "ospf-protocol" identity while IS-IS uses ju= st "isis". We need to find a common way to define the protocol identity nam= e. RIP yang model uses just "rip", so I suppose OSPF has to align. =B7 In the feature "fast-reroute" reference: s/Rereoute/Reroute/ =B7 The description of the identity "ospf-lsa-type" is strange: "Ba= se identity for OSPFv3 and OSPFv3 Link State Advertisements". Do you mean j= ust : "Base identity for OSPFv3 Link State Advertisements" =B7 It seems that you are using a typedef uint24 for the metric. In= IS-IS there is a metric typedef for this purpose. =B7 In the if-state-type, the value 6 is referred as "bdr" while t= he RFC talks about "backup". "bdr" works for sure, we just need to agree if= we align on RFC naming or common usage naming. =B7 In the nbr-state-type, why using "ex-start" instead of "exstart= ", again the RFC does not use the "-". =B7 In the packet-type: s/Acknowlegement/Acknowledgement/ =B7 In the ospfv2-router-link, the type is uint8, would be better t= o have an enum. Note that this appears multiple times in the model. =B7 In the leaf-list attached-router "line 1376", why using dotted-= quad instead of ip-address type ? =B7 In the grouping area-stat, there are checksum sums that are usi= ng int32 type while checksums are using uint32 or some other checksum sums = (like in interface-stat) also use uint32. Need to be consistent here. =B7 In the grouping interface-physical-link-config, why do you say = that it applies to physical interfaces ? Can't you run OSPF on VLANs ? =B7 Please set default values as much as you can (for instance in i= nterface-common-config or interface-physical-link-config or interface-confi= g...) =B7 Why do you have interface-physical-link-config and interface-co= nfig, what difference do you make between the two ? My point is why there i= s still so much containers/leaves in the interface-config and why couldn't = we put them in the other groupings or even create additional ones if requir= ed. =B7 What is the purpose of some empty groupings that you have creat= ed ? like "ospf-config" or "ospf-state" =B7 In the multi-topology-area-common-config, you are using a limit= ed uint32 type for the default cost while you have defined a uint24 type th= at you can use. It appears also in area-common-config. On the draft: =B7 In the overview (=A71), reference to 7950 does not appear as a = link, maybe an XML issue. =B7 =A72.2: s/The topology container/The "topologies" container Brgds, [Orange logo] Stephane Litkowski Network Architect Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET Orange Expert Future Networks phone: +33 2 23 06 49 83 NEW ! mobile: +33 6 71 63 27 50 NEW ! stephane.litkowski@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Here are some comments I have on the model:

=B7         The model should use the LSR WG as point of = contact and no more the OSPF WG

=B7         In the feature multi-topology: s/-Topolgy/-T= opology

=B7         In the packet-type typedef: s/database-descr= ipton/database-description.

=B7         In the container lsa-log description: s/cona= tiner/container

=B7         OSPF model has no keychain feature, while IS= IS has one. We need to agree on a common way to go.

=B7         In the container link-tlvs, the link-type is= an uint8 , wouldn’t it be better to use an enum to get a description= of what is the link type ?

=B7         Need to expand “af” to ”ad= dress-family” everywhere in the model (comments received from Yang do= ctor in the ISIS model review =3D> ISIS has done this expansion).

=B7         Ietf-spf-delay timers use uint16 while ISIS = uses timer-value-milliseconds

=B7         The grouping instance-config has a “us= es instance-fast-reroute-state”. It would be better to put it in the = instance-state container.

=B7         The model uses the “ospf-protocol̶= 1; identity while IS-IS uses just “isis”. We need to find a com= mon way to define the protocol identity name. RIP yang model uses just R= 20;rip”, so I suppose OSPF has to align.

=B7         In the feature “fast-reroute” re= ference: s/Rereoute/Reroute/

=B7         The description of the identity “ospf-= lsa-type” is strange: “Base identity for OSPFv3 and OSPFv3 Link= State Advertisements”. Do you mean just : “Base identity for O= SPFv3 Link State Advertisements”

=B7         It seems that you are using a typedef uint24= for the metric. In IS-IS there is  a metric typedef for this purpose.=

=B7          In the if-state-type, the value 6 is r= eferred as “bdr” while the RFC talks about “backup”= . “bdr” works for sure, we just need to agree if we align on RF= C naming or common usage naming.

=B7         In the nbr-state-type, why using “ex-s= tart” instead of “exstart”, again the RFC does not use th= e “-“.

=B7         In the packet-type: s/Acknowlegement/Acknowl= edgement/

=B7         In the ospfv2-router-link, the type is uint8= , would be better to have an enum. Note that this appears multiple times in= the model.

=B7         In the leaf-list attached-router “line= 1376”, why using dotted-quad instead of ip-address type ?=

=B7         In the grouping area-stat, there are checksu= m sums that are using int32 type while checksums are using uint32 or some o= ther checksum sums (like in interface-stat) also use uint32. Need to be con= sistent here.

=B7         In the grouping interface-physical-link-conf= ig, why do you say that it applies to physical interfaces ? Can’t you= run OSPF on VLANs ?

=B7         Please set default values as much as you can= (for instance in interface-common-config or interface-physical-link-config= or interface-config…)

=B7         Why do you have interface-physical-link-conf= ig and interface-config, what difference do you make between the two ? My p= oint is why there is still so much containers/leaves in the interface-confi= g and why couldn’t we put them in the other groupings or even create additional ones if required.=

=B7         What is the purpose of some empty groupings = that you have created ? like “ospf-config” or “ospf-state= ”

=B7         In the multi-topology-area-common-config, yo= u are using a limited uint32 type for the default cost while you have defin= ed a uint24 type that you can use. It appears also in area-common-config.

 

On the draft:

=B7         In the overview (=A71), reference to 7950 do= es not appear as a link, maybe an XML issue.

=B7         =A72.2: s/The topology container/The “= topologies” container

 

Brgds,

 

 

3D"O=

 <= o:p>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET

Orange Expert Fut= ure Networks

phone: +33 2 23 06 49 83  N= EW !
mobile: +33 6 71 63 27 50  NEW = ;!
s= tephane.litkowski@orange.com

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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Thank you.
--_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_-- --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Description: image001.jpg Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.jpg"; size=1093; creation-date="Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:34:04 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:34:04 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAoACgDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD1O48f afbXMsDWl0WjcoSAuDg49aj/AOFiad/z53f5L/jXB6r/AMhe9/67v/M1Ur5Geb4pSaTX3H2dPJcJ KCbT+89H/wCFiad/z53f5L/jR/wsTTv+fO7/ACX/ABrziip/tnFd19xX9iYPs/vPR/8AhYmnf8+d 3+S/40V5xRR/bOK7r7g/sTB9n95b1X/kL3v/AF3f+ZqpW3Po17qGo3s0Cx7DdPGpeQLvbOdq56mo R4d1EmEFYVaZdyI0oDY9cda450KspNqLO2niKUYJOSvbv5GVRWwPC+qmR4zFErI/l4aUDc2A2B68 GmDw7qTQrIIkJZVYR+YN+GOAdvuan6tW/lf3FfWqH86+8yqK2bjQG0+EvqU/2dmyIgieYGI6gkHg 0VM6M4O0tGVCtCavF3R1o8Oa7BcTtbXdh5TztPGJYyxjY9xxwcUxfDniNZ1m+32DOIPs+WjJymc8 8dc96KK+y/s+l3f3s+J/tKt2X3Ie+geJZJlla/0/eswmH7s/eChfT0FXDo2rDTRCktoLoIqfaCxy NrZGPlz+GaKKpYGmr6vXzJlj6sraLTyMrUPCOuant+03lh8pJ+RGXJPUniiiisZ5Thpvmldv1N4Z xioLljZL0R//2Q== --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BEOPEXCLILMA4corp_-- From nobody Wed Nov 21 17:19:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F41130E5A; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ruob8XYOW4Br; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from m176115.mail.qiye.163.com (m176115.mail.qiye.163.com [59.111.176.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5EDF130DFF; Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from WangajPC (unknown [219.142.69.77]) by m176115.mail.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 196406610B9; Thu, 22 Nov 2018 09:18:46 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)'" , , Cc: References: <9208_1541773820_5BE599FC_9208_47_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B746E6A@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <012401d4809c$0f8142d0$2e83c870$@org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2018 09:18:46 +0800 Message-ID: <006601d48201$51f2ecc0$f5d8c640$@org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01D48244.60162CC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AdR4OJWYmH00pYTzTK6gvxR+PFXbGgH+ARaQABqGrWAAAHMhgABYenIA Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kIGBQJHllBS1VLV1koWUFKTEtLSjdXWS1ZQUlXWQkOFx4IWUFZMjUtOj cyP0FLVUtZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6M0k6ARw5NDkSFTcpHQ9NQy0U LQ1PCjpVSlVKTk9JQ09CTkhJQktOVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxMWVdZCAFZQUhNS0hNNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a6738ff79d29373kuws196406610b9 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogW3NwcmluZ10gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pc2lzLW1w?= =?gb2312?b?bHMtZWxjICYgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1vc3BmLW1wbHMtZWxj?= X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2018 01:19:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01D48244.60162CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Les: =20 Can we consider more aggressively to convert between the Router = Information LSA(defined in RFC7770) and IS-IS Router CAPABILITY TLV(defined in = RFC7981) when we do OSPF/IS-IS redistribution? When the redistribution occurs between different OSPF instances or IS-IS instances, such LSA or TLV need only be flooded into another instances, = no conversion are involved. =20 Doing so can meet other future requirements for node capabilities information between different IGP instances. And will not make the user confusion for the usage of associated sub TLV. =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 14:52 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; stephane.litkowski@orange.com; = lsr@ietf.org =B3=AD=CB=CD: spring@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Aijun =A8C =20 In the inter-AS case, what is needed is to know ELC of the originating = node. Simply knowing who the originator of an advertisement is not sufficient. =20 If ELC is advertised as a node capability, then a controller with access = to BGP-LS database for both ASs could determine ELC by piecing together the node capability advertisement and the prefix advertisement w originating router-id. =20 But what Stephane has proposed for the inter-AS case is a way to know = ELC in the absence of a controller. This means nodes in AS #1 need to have ELC capability info for nodes in = AS #2. As there is no way to redistribute IGP Node Capability advertisements between different IGP instances, the alternative is to advertise ELC associated with a prefix advertisement since the prefix advertisement = can be redistributed between IGP instances. Knowing the originator of the prefix is necessary, but it is not = sufficient. =20 Hope this is clear. =20 Les =20 =20 =20 From: Aijun Wang =20 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:41 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; = stephane.litkowski@orange. com; lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Hi, Les and Stephane: =20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-ext-00 = is trying to solve what you are concerning for. As you said, ELC/ERLD are functionally node capabilities, but when we = try to send traffic, we should consider the prefixes itself. The above draft proposal to add prefix originator to address this. After getting this information, the receiver can then build the relationship between prefixes and ELC/ERLD. =20 =20 Best Regards. =20 Aijun Wang Network R&D and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China. =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 2:00 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; lsr@ietf..org = =20 =B3=AD=CB=CD: spring@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Stephane =A8C =20 The use case for this proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence of a controller. If the WG agrees that this use case needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good and viable compromise. =20 I say =A1=B0compromise=A1=B1 because =A8C as you mention below =A8C = ELC/ELRD are functionally node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires = signaling between AS=A1=AFs and the vehicle we have for doing that is a prefix advertisement. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with a = prefix =A8C but not do so for ERLD. This seems reasonable to me. =20 One change to what you state below =A8C I think =A1=B0when a prefix is = leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST also be leaked/redistributed.=A1=B1. =20 Les =20 =20 From: Lsr On Behalf Of = stephane.litkowski@orange.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Cc: spring@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc =20 Hi WG, =20 Some discussions occurred on the mailing list on how to encode the = entropy label capability for SR but we hadn=A1=AFt found a consensus on the = target solution. IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various people that = have participated to this discussion. =20 Following this discussion, we are coming with the following proposal = that the WG need to validate: =20 The entropy label capability is still considered as a per node property = (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ELC per linecard). The ERLD is considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we = do not want to have an ERLD per linecard). =20 However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the nodes. A typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or = a different one) are redistributing routes between each other. The inter-area use case is also creating a similar situation. =20 When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a segment it must = ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy label capable otherwise = packets will be dropped. =20 As a consequence, when prefixes are redistributed, the entropy label capability of the node who has firstly originated the prefix, should be associated to the prefix during the redistribution. =20 In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy label = capability for each prefix advertised by a node. The entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684). The entropy label capability may be set for local prefixes (e.g. = loopbacks) by a local configuration and for leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix may = be also leaked/redistributed. =20 An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix segment only = if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the ELC set in the Prefix Attributes. An ingress should set the entropy label below an Adjacency segment only = if the adjacent neighbor of the node that has advertised the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is entropy label capable). =20 For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts.=20 =20 =20 Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we can progress = these documents. =20 Brgds, =20 Stephane =20 _________________________________________________________________________= ___ _____________________________________________ =20 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez = recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme = ou falsifie. Merci. =20 This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01D48244.60162CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Les:

 

Can we consider more = aggressively to convert between the Router Information LSA(defined in = RFC7770) and  IS-IS Router CAPABILITY TLV(defined in RFC7981) when = we do OSPF/IS-IS redistribution?

When the redistribution occurs = between different OSPF instances or IS-IS instances, such LSA or TLV = need only be flooded into another instances, no conversion are = involved.

 

Doing so can meet other future = requirements for node capabilities information between different IGP = instances. And will not make the user confusion for the usage of = associated sub TLV.

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 14:52
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Aijun Wang; = stephane.litkowski@orange.com; = lsr@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = spring@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [spring] = draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Aijun = =A8C

 

In the = inter-AS case, what is needed is to know ELC of the originating node. = Simply knowing who the originator of an advertisement is not = sufficient.

 

If ELC is = advertised as a node capability, then a controller with access to BGP-LS = database for both ASs could determine ELC by piecing together the node = capability advertisement and the prefix advertisement w originating = router-id.

 

But what = Stephane has proposed for the inter-AS case is a way to know ELC in the = absence of a controller.

This means nodes in AS #1 need to = have ELC capability info for nodes in AS #2.

As there is = no way to redistribute IGP Node Capability advertisements between = different IGP instances, the alternative is to advertise ELC associated = with a prefix advertisement since the prefix advertisement can be = redistributed between IGP instances.

Knowing the = originator of the prefix is necessary, but it is not = sufficient.

 

Hope this = is clear.

 

    Les

 

 

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&g= t;
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:41 PM
To: Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; stephane.litkowski@orange.c= om; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: = spring@ietf.org
Subject: = =B4=F0=B8=B4: [spring] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Hi, Les and = Stephane:

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-ospf-prefix-originato= r-ext-00 is trying to solve what you are concerning = for.

As you said, ELC/ERLD are = functionally node capabilities, but when we try to send traffic, we = should consider the prefixes itself.

The above draft proposal to add = prefix originator to address this. After getting this information, the = receiver can then build the relationship between prefixes and = ELC/ERLD.

 

 

Best = Regards.

 

Aijun = Wang

Network R&D = and Operation Support Department

China Telecom = Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, = China.

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] =
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC= =E4: 2018=C4=EA11=D4=C220=C8=D5 2:00
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: stephane.litkowski@orange.c= om; lsr@ietf..org
=B3=AD=CB=CD<= span lang=3DEN-US>: spring@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC= =E2: Re: [spring] = draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Stephane = =A8C

 

The use = case for this proposal is to support inter-AS scenarios in the absence = of a controller.

If the WG agrees that this use case = needs to be addressed I believe the proposal below is a good and viable = compromise.

 

I say = =A1=B0compromise=A1=B1 because =A8C as you mention below =A8C ELC/ELRD = are functionally node capabilities. But the inter-AS use case requires = signaling between AS=A1=AFs and the vehicle we have for doing that is a = prefix advertisement. The compromise is to advertise ELC associated with = a prefix =A8C but not do so for ERLD.

This seems = reasonable to me.

 

One change = to what you state below =A8C I think =A1=B0when a prefix is leaked or = redistributed, the ELC associated to the prefix MUST also be = leaked/redistributed.=A1=B1.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@orange.c= om
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2018 6:30 AM
To: = lsr@ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org
Subject: = [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc & = draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc

 

Hi WG,

 

Some discussions occurred on the = mailing list on how to encode the entropy label capability for SR but we = hadn=A1=AFt found a consensus on the target = solution.

IETF 103 was the opportunity to meet face to face various = people that have participated to this = discussion.

 

Following this discussion, we are coming with the following = proposal that the WG need to validate:

 

The entropy label capability is = still considered as a per node property (for simplicity reason, we do = not want to have an ELC per linecard).

The ERLD is considered as a per = node property (for simplicity reason, we do not want to have an ERLD per = linecard).

 

However IGPs may advertise prefixes that are not belonging = to the node itself in addition to the local prefixes of the = nodes.

A = typical use case is when two IGP domains (running the same protocol or a = different one) are redistributing routes between each = other.

The = inter-area use case is also creating a similar = situation.

 

When an ingress node pushes an entropy label below a = segment  it must ensure that the tail-end of the segment is entropy = label capable otherwise packets will be dropped.

 

As a consequence, when prefixes are = redistributed, the entropy label capability of the node who has firstly = originated the prefix, should be associated to the prefix during the = redistribution.

 

In terms of encoding, we propose to associate an entropy = label capability for each prefix advertised by a = node.

The = entropy label capability will be encoded as part of the Prefix = Attributes IGP extension (RFC7794 and RFC7684).

The entropy label capability may be = set for local prefixes (e.g. loopbacks) by a local configuration and for = leaked/redistributed prefixes. When a prefix is leaked or redistributed, = the ELC associated to the prefix may be also = leaked/redistributed.

 

An ingress should set the entropy label below a Node/Prefix = segment only if the prefix associated to the Node/Prefix segment as the = ELC set in the Prefix Attributes.

An ingress should set the entropy = label below an Adjacency segment only if the adjacent neighbor of the = node that has advertised the Adj SID is advertising an ERLD (and so is = entropy label capable).

 

For the binding SID, as IGPs are not involved in the = signaling of the binding SID, there is nothing to do in these drafts. =

 

 

Let us know your comments/feedback on this proposal so we = can progress these documents.

 

Brgds,

 

Stephane

 

___________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________________<=
/pre>
 
Ce message et ses =
pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou =
privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas =
etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu =
ce message par erreur, veuillez le =
signaler
a l'expediteur et =
le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques =
etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange =
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------=_NextPart_000_0067_01D48244.60162CC0-- From nobody Fri Nov 23 01:52:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A17F130E0F for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2018 01:52:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.361 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.361 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d0QVaU8nKGWY for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2018 01:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur02on0703.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe05::703]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC88B130DFC for ; 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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:40:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154322525935.8424.14603656506222659721@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:40:59 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-25.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 09:40:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for IS-IS protocol Authors : Stephane Litkowski Derek Yeung Acee Lindem Jeffrey Zhang Ladislav Lhotka Filename : draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-25.txt Pages : 112 Date : 2018-11-26 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage IS-IS protocol on network elements. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-25 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-25 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-25 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3392; H:VI1PR07MB5022.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: CKS3VJ9rLE1GLvaGxdur8bD9LvwcrZ+zK4R4XTgnciObeybN/UsS4x+hsDPDmEV6Vh+EtZPs+aWnUeDiKrGB6urcIDbTMuu2+fguWrF6H0ihJ6f2VnMSD2Xf1bC+UXSVS8nb8TaZsYx9iuuvqmQy/zcrEknSrMBJnHr7V0yYEilGWSmiTb0HE16aCBgZ3HikMtJgOoP5ZnvkvqeyflwA0zyjc4VAK37jA/gjRW1cVCZZNEtHMv+gEe5ZauQxTPUwIhv0xUNpyReyGy80kd35LJzeN12bAvx30N3eGlJ06bOnCFf/5yxcRON3K3YOQ8FyXtGEpkPwUEkRCYqjWhR+e3jexnfFgbqCg8vpK5n4Jwg= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <282418FE446B7249998519574B0022A8@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7fe83488-fb11-4aed-7800-08d65458fd21 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Nov 2018 11:10:50.7193 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3392 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-24 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:11:00 -0000 Some quirks in-25 I see lots of YANG reference statements - good - but no mention of them in the I-D references - not so good. My list is 5130 5305 5306 5880 5881 6119 6232 7794 7810 7917 8405 Also perhaps OLD reference "RFC XXXX - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; OLD reference "draft-ietf-bfd-yang-xx.txt: YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)"; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; Line length is within the RFC limit but the effect is to spread many of the description clauses over multiple lines with indentation of 56 characters, not user friendly e.g. description "List of max LSP bandwidths for different priorities."; Acknowledgements is TBD. I note that the editor list of the YANG module is somewhat longer than the editor list of the I-D. I note that the augmentation of interfaces seems to have no conditional and so will augment all interfaces. I think that this is a generic issue but do not see it being addressed anywhere. In a similar vein, you are defining MPLS objects and I am unclear whether or not those should be conditional, or part of the MPLS YANG modules or both (copying Tarek for this) Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebben Aries" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:45 AM > Reviewer: Ebben Aries > Review result: On the Right Track > > 1 module in this draft: > - ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang > > No YANG compiler errors or warnings (from pyang 1.7.5 and yanglint 0.16.54) > > "ietf-isis@2018-08-09" module is compatible with the NMDA architecture. > > Module ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang: > - Both the description and the draft name reference that this module is > specific to configuration but contains operational state nodes in addition > to RPCs and notifications. Any wording suggesting this is only > configuration should be changed > - Module description must contain most recent copyright notice per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.1 > - Module description reads "common across all of the vendor implementations". > I don't think this needs to be called out as such as that is the overall > intention of *all* IETF models > - This module contains '22' features (and the respective OSPF module currently > contains '26'). While it is understood the purpose of these features in the > module, take precaution as to complexity for clients if they need to > understand >=3D quantity of features per module in use on a > network-element. We are going to end up w/ feature explosion to convey > *all* possible features of each network-element leading to divergence back > towards native models at the end of the day. A large amount of these > feature names could be defined within a more global namespace (e.g. nsr) but > this gives us a granular yet cumbersome approach (e.g. feature isis:nsr, > ospf:nsr, etc..) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' does not have any input leaf that covers clearing a > specific neighbor/adjacency (See comments below as well regarding RPC > alignment w/ the OSPF model) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' has an input node of 'interface' however this is just > a string type. Is there any reason this is not a leafref/if:interface-ref > (much like in the OSPF model) > - Child nodes within a container or list SHOULD NOT replicate the parent > identifier per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.3. 1. > > A case in point is the list /afs/af that has a leaf of 'af' > > > ipv4 > true > > > > Not only is this replication, but we should likely not abbreviate 'afs' if > we are using the expanded 'address-family' in other IETF models such as > ietf-i2rs-rib > > > General comments on the draft + nits: > - Since YANG tree diagrams are used, please include an informative reference > per https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.4 > - Section 1.1 does not need to exist since this would be covered by the > reference mentioned above > - Reference to NMDA compliance should be contained within Section 1 (vs. > Section 2) per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.5 > - Section 2: It seems reference should be given to the location of where the > ietf-routing module is defined (As well as reference to NMDA RFC in the > above reference) > - Section 2.1: "Additional modules may be created this to support..." needs > slight rewording adjustment > - Section 3: The RPC operations are named 'clear-adjacency' and > 'clear-database' rather w/ reliance off namespacing for uniqueness. This > section refers to 'clear-isis-database' and 'clear-isis-adjacency' > - Section 4: Notification name mismatch in this section from actual naming > within the module (e.g. 'adjacency-change' should rather be > 'adjacency-state-change') > - Section 7: Security Considerations will need updating to be patterned after > the latest version of the template at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.7 > - Section 12: All modules imported within this module MUST be referenced > within this section per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.9. > There are quite a few missing from this section right now > - Appendix A: Some of the XML elements are off in alignment > - Appendix A: Examples must be validated. The example given has the following > issues: > - /routing[name=3D'SLI'] and /routing/description are invalid data nodes and > do not exist. I'm not sure why they are in the XML example here > - The example is meant to reference configuration however > /routing/interfaces is a r/o container > - The control-plane-protocol 'type' needs to be qualified - e.g. > isis:isis > - The area-address does not validate against the pattern regex and must end > with a '.' e.g. > 49.0001.0000. > - metric-type/value is set to 'wide' which is invalid. This should rather > be 'wide-only' > - isis/afs/af/af is set to 'ipv4-unicast' which is invalid. This should > rather be 'ipv4' per iana-routing-types > - /interfaces/interface/type must be populated and is invalid. This should > rather be qualified as such: > ianaift:softwar eLoopback > ianaift:etherne tCsmacd > - /interfaces/interface/link-up-down-trap-enable must have a value > associated as such: > enabled > - NP container 'priority' has a must statement checking if an interface-type > is set to 'broadcast' however if you take the XML example from this > section, it will fail to validate even if is not defined > underneath an interface-type of 'point-to-point'. It seems to me that > this logic may need to be readjusted or not exist at all (priority can > still be set on implementations on loopback interfaces - which would > default to 'broadcast' in the example here). Could you not solve this > with use of 'when' vs. 'must' as such: > > when '../interface-type =3D "broadcast"' { > description "Priority can only be set for broadcast interfaces."; > } > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.18 .2. > > - /interfaces/interface/ipv4/mtu must contain a valid value (and likely not > need to be defined for Loopback0) > - 'isis/mpls-te/ipv4-router-id' is invalid and should rather be > 'isis/mpls/te-rid/ipv4-router-id' > - 'isis/afs/af/enabled' is invalid and should rather be 'isis/afs/af/enable' > - Examples should use IPv6 addresses where appropriate per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.12 . > - Looking at the latest revision of ietf-ospf (draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17) and > some comments performed earlier this year, I would suggest that for where > there are similarities that descriptions should be aligned both within the > same module and across modules > > Examples: > > # ietf-isis > container node-tags { > if-feature node-tag; > list node-tag { > leaf tag { > type uint32; > description "Node tag value."; > } > description "List of tags."; > } > description "Node Tag container"; > } > ... > container node-tags { > if-feature node-tag; > list node-tag { > key tag; > leaf tag { > type uint32; > description > "Node tag value."; > } > description > "List of tags."; > } > description > "Container for node tags."; > } > > # ietf-ospf > container node-tags { > if-feature node-tag; > list node-tag { > key tag; > leaf tag { > type uint32; > description > "Node tag value."; > } > description > "List of tags."; > } > description > "Container for node admin tags."; > } > > * Note: This is seen for other like leafs as well (e.g. short-delay, > long-delay, etc..) > - Suggest alignment of attributes across RPCs from ietf-isis and ietf-ospf > (e.g. ietf-ospf currently defines generic actions with a > 'routing-protocol-name' as an argument vs. protocol specific with > 'routing-protocol-instance-name') > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Tue Nov 27 07:57:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840B6130DDA; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:57:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rR0rhVAMI_xW; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 722A312D4E9; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4347hz3c3cz5vxw; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:57:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.17]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4347hz21WLzDq7m; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:57:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:57:38 +0100 From: To: tom petch , Ebben Aries , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg.all@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-24 Thread-Index: AQHUamm3Tc1MJKh1akycFTlwKg/n+KVj/pHg Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:57:38 +0000 Message-ID: <19850_1543334259_5BFD6973_19850_302_6_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7768B5@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <154025553381.13801.5009678921928527816@ietfa.amsl.com> <03ff01d48641$8f8d8600$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <03ff01d48641$8f8d8600$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-24 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:57:45 -0000 Hi Tom, Thanks for your comments. I will fix them asap. Regarding: " Line length is within the RFC limit but the effect is to spread many of t= he description clauses over multiple lines with indentation of 56 character= s, not user friendly e.g. description "List of max LSP bandwidths= for different priorities."; " What's your suggestion on this one ? Brgds, -----Original Message----- From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 12:11 To: Ebben Aries; yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg.all@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org; Tarek Saad (t= saad) Subject: Re: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isi= s-cfg-24 Some quirks in-25 I see lots of YANG reference statements - good - but no mention of them in the I-D references - not so good. My list is 5130 5305 5306 5880 5881 6119 6232 7794 7810 7917 8405 Also perhaps OLD reference "RFC XXXX - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; OLD reference "draft-ietf-bfd-yang-xx.txt: YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)"; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; Line length is within the RFC limit but the effect is to spread many of the description clauses over multiple lines with indentation of 56 characters, not user friendly e.g. description "List of max LSP bandwidths for different priorities."; Acknowledgements is TBD. I note that the editor list of the YANG module is somewhat longer than the editor list of the I-D. I note that the augmentation of interfaces seems to have no conditional and so will augment all interfaces. I think that this is a generic issue but do not see it being addressed anywhere. In a similar vein, you are defining MPLS objects and I am unclear whether or not those should be conditional, or part of the MPLS YANG modules or both (copying Tarek for this) Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebben Aries" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:45 AM > Reviewer: Ebben Aries > Review result: On the Right Track > > 1 module in this draft: > - ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang > > No YANG compiler errors or warnings (from pyang 1.7.5 and yanglint 0.16.54) > > "ietf-isis@2018-08-09" module is compatible with the NMDA architecture. > > Module ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang: > - Both the description and the draft name reference that this module is > specific to configuration but contains operational state nodes in addition > to RPCs and notifications. Any wording suggesting this is only > configuration should be changed > - Module description must contain most recent copyright notice per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.1 > - Module description reads "common across all of the vendor implementations". > I don't think this needs to be called out as such as that is the overall > intention of *all* IETF models > - This module contains '22' features (and the respective OSPF module currently > contains '26'). While it is understood the purpose of these features in the > module, take precaution as to complexity for clients if they need to > understand >=3D quantity of features per module in use on a > network-element. We are going to end up w/ feature explosion to convey > *all* possible features of each network-element leading to divergence back > towards native models at the end of the day. A large amount of these > feature names could be defined within a more global namespace (e.g. nsr) but > this gives us a granular yet cumbersome approach (e.g. feature isis:nsr, > ospf:nsr, etc..) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' does not have any input leaf that covers clearing a > specific neighbor/adjacency (See comments below as well regarding RPC > alignment w/ the OSPF model) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' has an input node of 'interface' however this is just > a string type. Is there any reason this is not a leafref/if:interface-ref > (much like in the OSPF model) > - Child nodes within a container or list SHOULD NOT replicate the parent > identifier per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.3. 1. > > A case in point is the list /afs/af that has a leaf of 'af' > > > ipv4 > true > > > > Not only is this replication, but we should likely not abbreviate 'afs' if > we are using the expanded 'address-family' in other IETF models such as > ietf-i2rs-rib > > > General comments on the draft + nits: > - Since YANG tree diagrams are used, please include an informative reference > per https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.4 > - Section 1.1 does not need to exist since this would be covered by the > reference mentioned above > - Reference to NMDA compliance should be contained within Section 1 (vs. > Section 2) per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.5 > - Section 2: It seems reference should be given to the location of where the > ietf-routing module is defined (As well as reference to NMDA RFC in the > above reference) > - Section 2.1: "Additional modules may be created this to support..." needs > slight rewording adjustment > - Section 3: The RPC operations are named 'clear-adjacency' and > 'clear-database' rather w/ reliance off namespacing for uniqueness. This > section refers to 'clear-isis-database' and 'clear-isis-adjacency' > - Section 4: Notification name mismatch in this section from actual naming > within the module (e.g. 'adjacency-change' should rather be > 'adjacency-state-change') > - Section 7: Security Considerations will need updating to be patterned after > the latest version of the template at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.7 > - Section 12: All modules imported within this module MUST be referenced > within this section per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.9. > There are quite a few missing from this section right now > - Appendix A: Some of the XML elements are off in alignment > - Appendix A: Examples must be validated. The example given has the following > issues: > - /routing[name=3D'SLI'] and /routing/description are invalid data nodes and > do not exist. I'm not sure why they are in the XML example here > - The example is meant to reference configuration however > /routing/interfaces is a r/o container > - The control-plane-protocol 'type' needs to be qualified - e.g. > isis:isis > - The area-address does not validate against the pattern regex and must end > with a '.' e.g. > 49.0001.0000. > - metric-type/value is set to 'wide' which is invalid. This should rather > be 'wide-only' > - isis/afs/af/af is set to 'ipv4-unicast' which is invalid. This should > rather be 'ipv4' per iana-routing-types > - /interfaces/interface/type must be populated and is invalid. This should > rather be qualified as such: > ianaift:softwar eLoopback > ianaift:etherne tCsmacd > - /interfaces/interface/link-up-down-trap-enable must have a value > associated as such: > enabled > - NP container 'priority' has a must statement checking if an interface-type > is set to 'broadcast' however if you take the XML example from this > section, it will fail to validate even if is not defined > underneath an interface-type of 'point-to-point'. It seems to me that > this logic may need to be readjusted or not exist at all (priority can > still be set on implementations on loopback interfaces - which would > default to 'broadcast' in the example here). Could you not solve this > with use of 'when' vs. 'must' as such: > > when '../interface-type =3D "broadcast"' { > description "Priority can only be set for broadcast interfaces."; > } > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.18 .2. > > - /interfaces/interface/ipv4/mtu must contain a valid value (and likely not > need to be defined for Loopback0) > - 'isis/mpls-te/ipv4-router-id' is invalid and should rather be > 'isis/mpls/te-rid/ipv4-router-id' > - 'isis/afs/af/enabled' is invalid and should rather be 'isis/afs/af/enable' > - Examples should use IPv6 addresses where appropriate per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.12 ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3454; H:VI1PR07MB4717.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: p5t7DbkA4AhHYSde8YXQ5e397b3wBNCUu+R0yQmdfm3HRCK61Fxgo/5jQMFcWP28k9Ki3uToPCJzQihMbK9vIIh+UILXUGmaWOQrNLMLyCNHKjcYCnweJaJvRLKN24bmFEmCRT8QkNeKwJKBrv5IZmujjfbALNNyaG2tZKGIbGkf1i+9YN5Nxf+lXckjVxaO3XkZHnv0EDo44qOfIwH9nsWqgLrfOn2H0fOQpKOd7M/jRdnC2ISCdz4eKLuNi66zJ0+CmYOE3FSPQrI+GOU3tFqsjocQ9D97mXGlCH/dxf1brLT1DJ4IItQ3Yms7j3g/ECxztGTZphNLjtbkoN5K31/b8LPCrrfp8QNJo+6bAgk= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 496e68a9-cafd-499b-18ff-08d6548ba5ce X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Nov 2018 17:13:28.1450 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3454 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-24 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 17:13:35 -0000 ---- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:57 PM Hi Tom, Thanks for your comments. I will fix them asap. Regarding: " Line length is within the RFC limit but the effect is to spread many of the description clauses over multiple lines with indentation of 56 characters, not user friendly e.g. description "List of max LSP bandwidths for different priorities."; " What's your suggestion on this one ? Fix it:-) having a sentence of text jump about the page makes it hard to read. A worse example is " leaf flags { type bits { bit A { position 7; description "The A bit represents the Anomalous (A) bit. The A bit is set when the measured value of this parameter exceeds its configured maximum threshold. The A bit is cleared when the measured value falls below its configured reuse threshold. If the A bit is clear, the value represents steady-state link performance."; } } " where each line of the description is split into two with part starting indented 56 characters and the other part not indented at all. Mahesh commented on draft-ietf-pce-pcep-yang-08 recently that "- The module uses indentation that varies all over the module, from 2 spaces to 5. Please fix the module to have consistent indentation." Well, this I-D is worse by an order of magnitude so I think needs fixing. Tom Petch Brgds, -----Original Message----- From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 12:11 To: Ebben Aries; yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg.all@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org; Tarek Saad (tsaad) Subject: Re: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-24 Some quirks in-25 I see lots of YANG reference statements - good - but no mention of them in the I-D references - not so good. My list is 5130 5305 5306 5880 5881 6119 6232 7794 7810 7917 8405 Also perhaps OLD reference "RFC XXXX - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD).Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; OLD reference "draft-ietf-bfd-yang-xx.txt: YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)"; NEW reference "RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD). -- Note to RFC Editor Please replace YYYY with published RFC number for draft-ietf-bfd-yang."; Line length is within the RFC limit but the effect is to spread many of the description clauses over multiple lines with indentation of 56 characters, not user friendly e.g. description "List of max LSP bandwidths for different priorities."; Acknowledgements is TBD. I note that the editor list of the YANG module is somewhat longer than the editor list of the I-D. I note that the augmentation of interfaces seems to have no conditional and so will augment all interfaces. I think that this is a generic issue but do not see it being addressed anywhere. In a similar vein, you are defining MPLS objects and I am unclear whether or not those should be conditional, or part of the MPLS YANG modules or both (copying Tarek for this) Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebben Aries" Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:45 AM > Reviewer: Ebben Aries > Review result: On the Right Track > > 1 module in this draft: > - ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang > > No YANG compiler errors or warnings (from pyang 1.7.5 and yanglint 0.16.54) > > "ietf-isis@2018-08-09" module is compatible with the NMDA architecture. > > Module ietf-isis@2018-08-09.yang: > - Both the description and the draft name reference that this module is > specific to configuration but contains operational state nodes in addition > to RPCs and notifications. Any wording suggesting this is only > configuration should be changed > - Module description must contain most recent copyright notice per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.1 > - Module description reads "common across all of the vendor implementations". > I don't think this needs to be called out as such as that is the overall > intention of *all* IETF models > - This module contains '22' features (and the respective OSPF module currently > contains '26'). While it is understood the purpose of these features in the > module, take precaution as to complexity for clients if they need to > understand >=3D quantity of features per module in use on a > network-element. We are going to end up w/ feature explosion to convey > *all* possible features of each network-element leading to divergence back > towards native models at the end of the day. A large amount of these > feature names could be defined within a more global namespace (e.g. nsr) but > this gives us a granular yet cumbersome approach (e.g. feature isis:nsr, > ospf:nsr, etc..) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' does not have any input leaf that covers clearing a > specific neighbor/adjacency (See comments below as well regarding RPC > alignment w/ the OSPF model) > - RPC 'clear-adjacency' has an input node of 'interface' however this is just > a string type. Is there any reason this is not a leafref/if:interface-ref > (much like in the OSPF model) > - Child nodes within a container or list SHOULD NOT replicate the parent > identifier per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.3. 1. > > A case in point is the list /afs/af that has a leaf of 'af' > > > ipv4 > true > > > > Not only is this replication, but we should likely not abbreviate 'afs' if > we are using the expanded 'address-family' in other IETF models such as > ietf-i2rs-rib > > > General comments on the draft + nits: > - Since YANG tree diagrams are used, please include an informative reference > per https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.4 > - Section 1.1 does not need to exist since this would be covered by the > reference mentioned above > - Reference to NMDA compliance should be contained within Section 1 (vs. > Section 2) per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.5 > - Section 2: It seems reference should be given to the location of where the > ietf-routing module is defined (As well as reference to NMDA RFC in the > above reference) > - Section 2.1: "Additional modules may be created this to support..." needs > slight rewording adjustment > - Section 3: The RPC operations are named 'clear-adjacency' and > 'clear-database' rather w/ reliance off namespacing for uniqueness. This > section refers to 'clear-isis-database' and 'clear-isis-adjacency' > - Section 4: Notification name mismatch in this section from actual naming > within the module (e.g. 'adjacency-change' should rather be > 'adjacency-state-change') > - Section 7: Security Considerations will need updating to be patterned after > the latest version of the template at > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.7 > - Section 12: All modules imported within this module MUST be referenced > within this section per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.9. > There are quite a few missing from this section right now > - Appendix A: Some of the XML elements are off in alignment > - Appendix A: Examples must be validated. The example given has the following > issues: > - /routing[name=3D'SLI'] and /routing/description are invalid data nodes and > do not exist. I'm not sure why they are in the XML example here > - The example is meant to reference configuration however > /routing/interfaces is a r/o container > - The control-plane-protocol 'type' needs to be qualified - e.g. > isis:isis > - The area-address does not validate against the pattern regex and must end > with a '.' e.g. > 49.0001.0000. > - metric-type/value is set to 'wide' which is invalid. This should rather > be 'wide-only' > - isis/afs/af/af is set to 'ipv4-unicast' which is invalid. This should > rather be 'ipv4' per iana-routing-types > - /interfaces/interface/type must be populated and is invalid. This should > rather be qualified as such: > ianaift:softwar eLoopback > ianaift:etherne tCsmacd > - /interfaces/interface/link-up-down-trap-enable must have a value > associated as such: > enabled > - NP container 'priority' has a must statement checking if an interface-type > is set to 'broadcast' however if you take the XML example from this > section, it will fail to validate even if is not defined > underneath an interface-type of 'point-to-point'. It seems to me that > this logic may need to be readjusted or not exist at all (priority can > still be set on implementations on loopback interfaces - which would > default to 'broadcast' in the example here). Could you not solve this > with use of 'when' vs. 'must' as such: > > when '../interface-type =3D "broadcast"' { > description "Priority can only be set for broadcast interfaces."; > } > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-4.18 .2. > > - /interfaces/interface/ipv4/mtu must contain a valid value (and likely not > need to be defined for Loopback0) > - 'isis/mpls-te/ipv4-router-id' is invalid and should rather be > 'isis/mpls/te-rid/ipv4-router-id' > - 'isis/afs/af/enabled' is invalid and should rather be 'isis/afs/af/enable' > - Examples should use IPv6 addresses where appropriate per > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20#section-3.12 ________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. 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b=F+Uk1ExaRGsd/yO2ACz38tKZExctX4WFgfVelyHGogztsqU58YD3WH64m73oVKOzrA wGX9+zruyt/sMmVwrqiYJTPz+CfqhpEZIA5PXshaw01uXDCBpsHdUeC4T+HGnDikVzEl FpNx25NGqFSUobZ4IvpgcmCqRuzi4XidHmTORbyQwaoMEFRzmQc7a32I3y2cYgcVsyYU emS0btrH4lGpbIfcqxCZS89qLtWPg8+yIczDjrTXvbGJOnxZjkaRivfkckO+SLTIt2T0 UI1bn7W+x7RKbfvWI3hcd20CK9LFCjSawHcHyVWWabrPfDZDwpxB429aAQi1e8O1zb3X JDYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZqpboeWoHAm8fD65WrY717eCkUYsAZe/oB/YFb5wlASqBDr+xq 3jBoeIJGSwL4GhalJI2iQivxSr/Lgw0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VddhJq6QBBmqSErtxOCzDyBCj+dZ1lc3a21dMS7n80a4Z2r7Ka4ph33dz9B8DPJaEYNXf+3g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:84e4:: with SMTP id 91mr28467183wrg.237.1543351383595; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 12:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from INARA ([82.138.197.10]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l13sm495121wmb.27.2018.11.27.12.43.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Nov 2018 12:43:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: Daniel King X-Google-Original-Sender: "Daniel King" From: To: Cc: References: <8504C66D-7395-4B58-A9B4-C413B6BC0DD9@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:43:01 -0000 Message-ID: <001501d48691$ca8b8c70$5fa2a550$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01D48691.CA8DD660" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKSWy1wvOxMrmML85wt6ZLbipQ/BgIzQ+LTo9bSSiA= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:43:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01D48691.CA8DD660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Acee, all.=20 =20 No, I am not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. =20 BR, Dan.=20 =20 =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: = 2018=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 11:59 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org ; pce@ietf.org = =20 =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP = security capability support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) =20 Authors =E2=80=93 Reminder that you need to explicitly reply to this = poll.=20 =20 From: Lsr > on = behalf of Acee Lindem > Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 3:02 PM To: draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support = > Cc: "lsr@ietf.org " > Subject: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability = support in the PCE discovery" (Corrected) =20 Authors,=20 =20 Are you aware of any IPR that applies to = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support? =20 If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules = (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). =20 There are currently no IPR disclosures against = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support. =20 If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to = this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant = IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list. The = document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been = received from each author and contributor. =20 If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or = contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any = IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. =20 Thanks, Acee ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01D48691.CA8DD660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Acee, all. =

 

No, I am not aware = of any IPR that applies to this draft.

 

BR, Dan. = <= /p>

 

= =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= := Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] =
= =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4= := 2018= =E5=B9=B4= 11= =E6=9C=88= 16= =E6=97=A5= 11:59
= =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= := draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support
= =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81= := lsr@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org
= =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98= := Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability = support in the PCE discovery" = (Corrected)

 

Authors =E2=80=93 = Reminder that you need to explicitly reply to this poll. =

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on = behalf of Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Date: = Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 3:02 PM
To: = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support <draf= t-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support@ietf.org>
Cc: = "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP extension for PCEP security capability = support in the PCE discovery" = (Corrected)

 

Authors, =

 

Are you aware of = any IPR that applies to = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support?

 

If so, has this = IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, = 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 

There are = currently no IPR disclosures against = draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support.

    =

If you are listed = as a document author or contributor please respond to this email = regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The = response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list. The document will = not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from = each author and contributor.

    =

If you are on the = LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then = please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not = yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

 

Thanks,

Acee

<= /html> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01D48691.CA8DD660-- From nobody Tue Nov 27 14:43:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C85412870E; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:43:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <154335858528.11907.13232768948226002927@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:43:05 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-18.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 22:43:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol Authors : Derek Yeung Yingzhen Qu Jeffrey Zhang Ing-Wher Chen Acee Lindem Filename : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-18.txt Pages : 116 Date : 2018-11-27 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage OSPF. The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC 7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-18 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-18 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-18 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 27 14:53:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC93130DC5; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:53:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.96 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.96 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.46, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9FXeV2uQJ9f; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:53:04 -0800 (PST) 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XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 17:53:00 -0500 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AdSBhYgiLVXk+bRuTn68pWj1+aWyiQFHmleA Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 22:53:00 +0000 Message-ID: <58C71B78-1C6A-4FB5-B64A-7A38628028C1@cisco.com> References: <576_1542796445_5BF5349D_576_261_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BE@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <576_1542796445_5BF5349D_576_261_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BE@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/related; 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Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 434fTK43gczDq7J; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 13:04:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4bd:9b2b:3651:6fba%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 13:04:21 +0100 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AdSBhYgiLVXk+bRuTn68pWj1+aWyiQFHmleAABtuT+A= Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 12:04:21 +0000 Message-ID: <19021_1543406661_5BFE8445_19021_254_3_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <576_1542796445_5BF5349D_576_261_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BE@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <58C71B78-1C6A-4FB5-B64A-7A38628028C1@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <58C71B78-1C6A-4FB5-B64A-7A38628028C1@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.2] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0OPEXCLILMA4corp_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 12:04:27 -0000 --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0OPEXCLILMA4corp_" --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:52:46 -0000 --00000000000021fd3f057bbb8eb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear authors: I just finished reading this document. Even though it is relatively short, I have significant concerns and I think it needs more work. Please take a look at the detailed comments in-line below -- I'm highlighting some of the issues here. (1) What is the Update to rfc2328? Please be specific in both the Abstract and the Introduction to indicate how rfc2328 is Updated. Also, see my question about rfc6987 in =C2=A76. (2) Operational/Deployment Considerations. There are several places (specially in =C2=A73) where the specification offers a choice (e.g. by usi= ng MAY). Some of those choices would be better informed if there was a discussion of the considerations behind them. Please take a look at rfc5706 (specially =C2=A72). Either a discussion close to where the behavi= or is specified or a separate section is ok. Please also keep migration in mind (see comments in =C2=A75). (3) Both the IANA and Security Considerations sections need more details. I will wait for them to be addressed before starting the IETF Last Call. Thanks! Alvaro. [The line numbers come from idnits.] ... 11 H-bit Support for OSPFv2 12 draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-06 [nit] Please make the title more descriptive. "non-transit router", "host mode", etc. come to mind. 14 Abstract 16 OSPFv3 defines an option bit for router-LSAs known as the R-bit in 17 RFC5340. If the R-bit is clear, an OSPFv3 router can participate in 18 OSPF topology flooding, however it will not be used as a transit 19 router. In such cases, other routers in the OSPFv3 routing domain 20 only install routes to allow local traffic delivery. This document 21 defines the H-bit functionality to prevent other OSPFv2 routers from 22 using the router for transit traffic in OSPFv2 routing domains as 23 described in RFC 2328. This document updates RFC 2328. [minor] Describing the functionality in terms of OSPFv2 would have been nice. IOW, there's no need (in the Abstract) to force the reader to go figure out what OSPFv3 already did to decide if it's worth reading this document or not. [major] What is the Update to rfc2328? Please be specific, both here and in the Introduction: don't just mention the section updated, but (more important) what is the update about. "This document updates rfc2328 by assigning a bit...changing the SPF process...creating a registry..." All/none/something else? Note that the answer to "what is the update?" doesn't have to be all. I think that the registry creation is a must. But Updating because of the SPF changes means that you expect an rfc2328 implementation to consider the H-bit when running SPF. I think you really mean that implementations of this document (i.e. not all rfc2328 implementations) have to use the modified SPF. That is my guess...please consider the answer carefully. ... 42 Copyright Notice 44 Copyright (c) 2018 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the 45 document authors. All rights reserved. 47 This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal 48 Provisions Relating to IETF Documents 49 (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of 50 publication of this document. Please review these documents 51 carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect 52 to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must 53 include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of 54 the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as 55 described in the Simplified BSD License. 57 This document may contain material from IETF Documents or IETF 58 Contributions published or made publicly available before November 59 10, 2008. The person(s) controlling the copyright in some of this 60 material may not have granted the IETF Trust the right to allow 61 modifications of such material outside the IETF Standards Process. 62 Without obtaining an adequate license from the person(s) controlling 63 the copyright in such materials, this document may not be modified 64 outside the IETF Standards Process, and derivative works of it may 65 not be created outside the IETF Standards Process, except to format 66 it for publication as an RFC or to translate it into languages other 67 than English. [major] As far as I can tell, the first version of draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2-hbit (the predecessor of this document) was published in 2015. So the copyright text above doesn't apply. Are we missing other predecessors? If not, then this issue should be easy to fix. In at least the XML editor that I use, there's an option to indicate pre-RFC5378 work, or not. In this case it seems like it should be No. ... 85 1. Introduction [minor] Same comment as for the Abstract: describing the functionality in terms of OSPFv2 would have been nicer. You can still make the reference to the R-bit at the end, if you really want to. 87 OSPFv3 [RFC5340] defines an option bit for router-LSAs known as the 88 R-bit. If the R-bit is clear, an OSPFv3 router can participate in 89 OSPFv3 topology flooding without acting as a transit router. In such 90 cases, other routers in the OSPFv3 routing domain only install routes 91 used for local traffic. 93 This functionality is particularly useful for BGP Route Reflectors, 94 known as virtual Route Reflectors (vRRs), that are not in the 95 forwarding path but are in central locations such as data centers. 96 Such Route Reflectors typically are used for route distribution and 97 are not capable of forwarding transit traffic. However, they need to 98 learn the OSPF topology for: 100 1. SPF computation for Optimal Route Reflection functionality as 101 defined in [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection] 103 2. Reachability resolution for its Route Reflector Clients. [nit] Clearly route reflection is not the only motivation for this work. The justification only related to RRs seems gratuitous. Just a nit... 105 This document defines the R-bit functionality equivalent for OSPFv2 106 defined in [RFC2328] by introducing a new router-LSA bit known as the 107 "H-bit". This document updates appendix A.4.2 of RFC 2328. [nit] s/OSPFv2 defined in [RFC2328]/OSPFv2 [RFC2328] It sounds as if "the R-bit functionality equivalent for OSPFv2" is already in rfc2328. [major] Please be specific about what the Update is. ... 117 3. H-bit Support 119 This document defines a new router-LSA bit known as the Host Bit or 120 the H-bit. An OSPFv2 router advertising a router-LSA with the H-bit 121 set indicates to other OSPFv2 routers in the area supporting the 122 functionality that it MUST NOT be used as a transit router. The bit 123 value usage of the H-bit is reversed from the R-bit defined in OSPFv3 124 [RFC5340] to support backward compatibility. The modified OSPFv2 125 router-LSA format is: [minor] "...MUST NOT be used as a transit router" Put a forward reference to =C2=A74. [nit] The text keeps making reference to the R-bit. Even though there is a relationship, the H-bit is an independent feature. IOW, I don't think there's a need to explain the relationship to OSPFv3. [minor] On the same topic: The comparison to OSPFv3 is made and the "reverse" bit setting is justified "to support backward compatibility", but that is not explained anywhere. I was hoping that =C2=A75 (Auto Discovery = and Backward Compatibility) would say something, but it doesn't. 127 0 1 2 3 128 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 129 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 130 | LS age | Options | 1 | 131 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 132 | Link State ID | 133 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 134 | Advertising Router | 135 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 136 | LS sequence number | 137 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 138 | LS checksum | length | 139 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 140 |H|0|0|N|W|V|E|B| 0 | # links | 141 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 142 | Link ID | 143 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 144 | Link Data | 145 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 146 | Type | # TOS | metric | 147 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 148 | ... | 149 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 150 | TOS | 0 | TOS metric | 151 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 152 | Link ID | 153 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 154 | Link Data | 155 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 156 | ... | 158 bit H 159 When set, an OSPFv2 router is a non-transit router and is 160 incapable of forwarding transit traffic. [nit] Please label the figure: Figure 1... [minor] Even though it seems obvious from the figure, please be explicit in saying that the H-bit is the first bit (or however that bit is identified)... 162 When the H-bit is set, an OSPFv2 router is a non-transit router and 163 should not be used to forward transit traffic. In this mode, the 164 other OSPFv2 routers in the area SHOULD NOT use the originating 165 OSPFv2 router for transit traffic, but MAY use the OSPFv2 router for 166 local traffic destined to that OSPFv2 router. [minor] The first/second sentences seem redundant: "should not be used to forward transit traffic...SHOULD NOT use the originating OSPFv2 router for transit traffic". [major] When would the non-transit router be used for transit? IOW, why use "SHOULD NOT" and not "MUST NOT"? [major] "MAY use the OSPFv2 router for local traffic destined to that OSPFv2 router" I'm not sure what behavior is being specified here. The text sounds as if it was optional to even consider the router as a traffic destination. Is that the intent? Why? What would make a network operator decide one way or the other? 168 An OSPFv2 router originating a router-LSA with the H-bit set SHOULD 169 advertise all its non-local router links with a link cost of 170 MaxLinkMetric as defined in Section 3 of [RFC6987]. This is to 171 increase the applicability of the H-bit to partial deployments where 172 it is the responsibility of the operator to ensure that OSPFv2 173 routers not supporting the H-bit do not install routes causing 174 routing loops. [major] When would a router not advertise MaxLinkMetric? IOW, why use SHOULD and not MUST? [major] What are "non-local router links"? I always thought of links to be local to the router...what am I missing? [nit] s/advertise all its non-local router links with a link cost of MaxLinkMetric as defined in Section 3 of [RFC6987]/advertise all its non-local router links with a link cost of MaxLinkMetric [RFC6987] 176 When the H-bit is set, IPv4 prefixes associated with local interfaces 177 in other areas MAY be advertised in summary LSAs. Non-local IPv4 178 prefixes, e.g., those advertised by other routers and installed 179 during the SPF computation, MAY be advertised in summary-LSAs if 180 configured by policy. Likewise, when the H-bit is set, only IPv4 181 prefixes associated with local interfaces MAY be advertised in AS- 182 external LSAs. Non-local IPv4 prefixes, e.g., those exported from 183 other routing protocols, MUST NOT be advertised in AS-external-LSAs. 184 Finally, when the H-bit is set, an Area Border Router (ABR) MUST 185 advertise a consistent H-bit setting in its self-originated router- 186 LSAs for all attached areas. [minor] Some of the behavior specified in this paragraph may be non intuitive -- for example: "When the H-bit is set, IPv4 prefixes associated with local interfaces in other areas MAY be advertised in summary LSAs." During normal operation (aka rfc2328), these prefixes are always advertised (assuming normal areas, etc.)...and given that these are local to the router, it can be argued that one is not using the router as transit...on the other hand, going to a different area can be interpreted as transit. In either case, it would be nice if more was said about the optional nature of including these prefixes in the summary LSA. What are the operational considerations? [minor] The same comment for "prefixes associated with local interfaces MAY be advertised in AS-external LSAs". [major] "Non-local IPv4 prefixes...MAY be advertised in summary-LSAs if configured by policy." Doesn't advertising result in the router being transit? Doesn't it defeats the purpose of setting the H-bit? But there may be operational reasons to do so -- e.g. if the router is the only ABR..= . [major] "Non-local IPv4 prefixes...MUST NOT be advertised in AS-external-LSAs." This behavior seems consistent with the purpose of the H-bit, but not with the rest of the paragraph. Again, why is this different (operationally) than transiting for non-external inter-area prefixes. [major] "...an Area Border Router (ABR) MUST advertise a consistent H-bit setting in its self-originated router-LSAs for all attached areas." What do you mean by "consistent"? Do you mean "the same", i.e. be non-transit for all areas? Do you mean "compatible", i.e. so that the setting avoids potential loops or black holes? Please be specific. And please explain why -- again, what are the operational considerations? ... 214 5. Auto Discovery and Backward Compatibility 216 To avoid the possibility of any routing loops due to partial 217 deployment, this document defines a OSPF Router-Information LSA 218 functional capability bit known as the Host Support capability. [minor] A reference to rfc7770 would be nice. [mayor] I'm guessing that the RI LSA MUST be area-scoped, right? Please be specific. 220 Auto Discovery via announcement of the Host Support Functional 221 Capability ensures that the H-bit functionality and its associated 222 SPF changes SHOULD only take effect if all the routers in a given 223 OSPF area support this functionality. [major] When can the functionality take effect even if not all routers in the area support it? Or maybe it is that it won't take effect even if all routers support it... IOW, why SHOULD and not MUST? [major] There's no guarantee that the RI LSA will reach a router before the route-carrying LSAs -- which I think implies that SPF could be run before verifying full H-bit support. The result may be a loop...or a loop may exist until the lack of area-wide support is verified... IOW, it seems to me that this auto discovery mechanism may not work as expected. Migration is an important Deployment Consideration. [major] What is the process to verify area-wide support? Should the router build a tree...run SPF...inspect the LSAs...?? I'm assuming/hoping that this is a common enough operation that it is specified already somewhere else... 225 Implementations are encouraged to provide a configuration parameter 226 to manually override enforcement of the H-bit functionality in 227 partial deployments where the topology guarantees that OSPFv2 routers 228 not supporting the H-bit do not compute routes resulting in routing 229 loops. More precisely, the advertisement of MaxLinkMetric for the 230 router's non-local links will prevent OSPFv2 routers not supporting 231 the H-bit from attempting to use it for transit traffic. [minor] The text seems to indicate what the second sentence is a clarification of the first one: "Implementations are encouraged to... More precisely..." But in reality you are talking about two different things: the ability to consider the H-bit even in partial deployments, *and*, advertising MaxLinkMetric. Please consider rewording to clarify. 233 6. OSPF AS-External-LSAs/NSSA LSAs with Type 2 Metrics 235 When calculating the path to an OSPF AS-External-LSA or NSSA-LSA with 236 a Type-2 metric, the advertised Type-2 metric is taken as more 237 significant than the OSPF intra-area or inter-area path. Hence, 238 advertising the links with MaxLinkMetric as specified in [RFC6987] 239 does not discourage transit traffic when calculating AS external or 240 NSSA routes. Consequently, OSPF routers implementing [RFC6987] or 241 this specification should advertise a Type-2 metric of LSInfinity for 242 any self-originated AS-External-LSAs or NSSA-LSAs in situations when 243 the OSPF router is acting as a stub router [RFC6987] or implementing 244 this specification. [major] Should there be Normative language in this paragraph? [major] This paragraph talks about what a stub router (rfc6987) should do. In order to do that, this document should be tagged to Update rfc6987. Is that the intent? 246 7. IANA Considerations 248 IANA is requested to create the OSPF Router-LSA bit registry with the 249 following assignments: 251 Value Description Reference 252 0x01 Area Border Router (B-bit) [RFC2328] 253 0x02 AS Boundary Router (E-bit) [RFC2328] 254 0x04 Virtual Link Endpoint (V-bit) [RFC2328] 255 0x08 Historic (W-bit) [RFC1584] [major] Even though rfc1584 is classified as Historic, that doesn't mean that the bit is as well, or that it has been deprecated (at least I didn't see that in rfc5110). Please put a name to it -- "wild-card multicast"? 256 0x10 Unconditional NSSA Translator (Nt-bit) [RFC3101] 257 0x20 Unassigned 258 0x40 Unassigned 259 0x80 Host (H-bit) This Document [major] What should be the assignment policy (rfc8126)? [minor] Besides the 8 bits above, the Router-LSA (rfc2328) has another 8 bits (to the right) that seem unassigned...should they be included in this registry as well? [major nit] I couldn't find where rfc2328 talks about the value of these bits being 0 and what to do if they are not. By creating this new registry, you have the opportunity to (at least) clarify that. 261 This document also defines a new Router Functional Capability 262 [RFC7770] known as the Host Support Functional Capability. This 263 document requests IANA to allocate the value of this capability from 264 the Router Functional Capability Bits TLV. [minor] s/TLV/Registry 266 8. Security Considerations 268 This document introduces no new security considerations beyond those 269 already specified in [RFC6987], [RFC2328], and [RFC5340]. [major] [*] This section says nothing! rfc6987 has no Security Considerations to speak of (sorry!)...rfc2328's Security Considerations only talk about authentication, and there's no mention of rfc5709 or rfc7474...and rfc5340 doesn't apply because this document is not about OSPFv3 -- also, rfc5340 doesn't have specific Security Considerations related to the R-bit. [*] I don't really have a SecDir hat...just pretending I do. Suggestion: tell the reader why there are no new security considerations. "This document introduces functionality to do a, b, and c... Non of that affects security..." Of course, more words would be nice. There is one specific item that I think should be mentioned as a risk. =C2= =A75 talks about using Auto Discovery "to avoid the possibility of any routing loops due to partial deployment". Even with proper authentication, there is the possibility that a (rogue) router can advertise the Host Support capability without really supporting it (there's no way to verify!!). The result can be a loop... I don't think this issue can be mitigated, but mentioning it would go a long way in demonstrating that you at least thought about the issues. ... 279 10.1. Normative References ... 290 [RFC3101] Murphy, P., "The OSPF Not-So-Stubby Area (NSSA) Option", 291 RFC 3101, DOI 10.17487/RFC3101, January 2003, 292 . 294 [RFC5340] Coltun, R., Ferguson, D., Moy, J., and A. Lindem, "OSPF 295 for IPv6", RFC 5340, DOI 10.17487/RFC5340, July 2008, 296 . [minor] These 2 references can be Informative. ... 307 10.2. Informative References ... 319 [RFC6987] Retana, A., Nguyen, L., Zinin, A., White, R., and D. 320 McPherson, "OSPF Stub Router Advertisement", RFC 6987, 321 DOI 10.17487/RFC6987, September 2013, 322 . [major] Because of the specification of the use of MaxLinkMetric, this reference has to be Normative. rfc6987 is already in the DownRef registry. --00000000000021fd3f057bbb8eb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Dear authors:

I just finished reading this document.=C2= =A0 Even though it is relatively short, I have significant concerns and I t= hink it needs more work.=C2=A0 Please take a look at the detailed comments = in-line below -- I'm highlighting some of the issues here.

(1) What is the Update to rfc2328?=C2=A0 Please= be specific in both the Abstract and the Introduction to indicate how rfc2= 328 is Updated.=C2=A0 Also, see my question about rfc6987 in =C2=A76.
=

(2) Operational/Deployment Consideration= s.=C2=A0 There are several places (specially in =C2=A73) where the specific= ation offers a choice (e.g. by using MAY).=C2=A0 Some of those choices woul= d be better informed if there was a discussion of the considerations behind= them.=C2=A0 Please take a look at rfc5706 (specially =C2=A72).=C2=A0 Eithe= r a discussion close to where the behavior is specified or a separate secti= on is ok.=C2=A0 Please also keep migration in mind (see comments in =C2=A75= ).

(3) Both the IANA and Security C= onsiderations sections need more details.


I will w= ait for them to be addressed before starting the IETF Last Call.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


[The line numbers come from idnits.]

...
11 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0H-bit Support for OSPFv2
12 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-06

[nit] Please make the title more descriptive. =C2=A0"n= on-transit router", "host mode", etc. come to mind.


14 Abstract
16 =C2=A0 OSPFv3 defines an= option bit for router-LSAs known as the R-bit in
17 =C2=A0 RFC5340.=C2=A0 If the R-bit is clear, an OSPF= v3 router can participate in
18 =C2=A0 OSPF topology flooding, however it will not be used as a transit
19 =C2=A0 router.=C2=A0 In such= cases, other routers in the OSPFv3 routing domain
20 =C2=A0 only install routes to allow local traffic d= elivery.=C2=A0 This document
21 =C2=A0 defines the H-bit functionality to prevent other OSPFv2 routers fr= om
22 =C2=A0 using the router = for transit traffic in OSPFv2 routing domains as
23 =C2=A0 described in RFC 2328.=C2=A0 This document upd= ates RFC 2328.

<= /div>
[minor] Describing t= he functionality in terms of OSPFv2 would have been nice.=C2=A0 IOW, there&= #39;s no need (in the Abstract) to force the reader to go figure out what O= SPFv3 already did to decide if it's worth reading this document or not.=

[major] What is the Update to rf= c2328?=C2=A0 Please be specific, both here and in the Introduction: don'= ;t just mention the section updated, but (more important) what is the updat= e about. =C2=A0"This document updates rfc2328 by assigning a bit...cha= nging the SPF process...creating a registry..." =C2=A0All/none/somethi= ng else?

<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">Note that the answer to &q= uot;what is the update?" doesn't have to be all.=C2=A0 I think tha= t the registry creation is a must.=C2=A0 But Updating because of the SPF ch= anges means that you expect an rfc2328 implementation to consider the H-bit= when running SPF.=C2=A0 I think you really mean that implementations of th= is document (i.e. not all rfc2328 implementations) have to use the modified= SPF.=C2=A0 That is my guess...please consider the answer carefully.
<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">

...
42 Copyr= ight Notice

44 =C2=A0 Copyright (c) 2018 IETF= Trust and the persons identified as the
45 =C2=A0 document authors.=C2=A0 All rights reserved.

47 =C2=A0 This document is subject to BCP 78 and the I= ETF Trust's Legal
48 =C2= =A0 Provisions Relating to IETF Documents
49 =C2=A0 (ht= tps://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of
50 =C2=A0 publication of this document.= =C2=A0 Please review these documents
51 =C2=A0 carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions w= ith respect
52 =C2=A0 to this = document.=C2=A0 Code Components extracted from this document must
53 =C2=A0 include Simplified BSD Licens= e text as described in Section 4.e of
54 =C2=A0 the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warra= nty as
55 =C2=A0 described in = the Simplified BSD License.

57 =C2=A0 This do= cument may contain material from IETF Documents or IETF
58 =C2=A0 Contributions published or made public= ly available before November
59 =C2=A0 10, 2008.=C2=A0 The person(s) controlling the copyright in some of= this
60 =C2=A0 material may = not have granted the IETF Trust the right to allow
61 =C2=A0 modifications of such material outside the I= ETF Standards Process.
62 =C2= =A0 Without obtaining an adequate license from the person(s) controlling
63 =C2=A0 the copyright in such = materials, this document may not be modified
64 =C2=A0 outside the IETF Standards Process, and derivative= works of it may
65<= span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> =C2=A0 not= be created outside the IETF Standards Process, except to format
66 =C2=A0 it for publication as an RFC o= r to translate it into languages other
67 =C2=A0 than English.

[m= ajor] As far as I can tell, the first version of draft-keyupate-ospf-ospfv2= -hbit (the predecessor of this document) was published in 2015.=C2=A0 So th= e copyright text above doesn't apply.=C2=A0 Are we missing other predec= essors?

If not, then this issue sho= uld be easy to fix.=C2=A0 In at least the XML editor that I use, there'= s an option to indicate pre-RFC5378 work, or not.=C2=A0 In this case it see= ms like it should be No.


=
...
85 1.=C2=A0 Introduction

[minor] Same comment as for the Abstract: describing the funct= ionality in terms of OSPFv2 would have been nicer.=C2=A0 You can still make= the reference to the R-bit at the end, if you really want to.

87 =C2=A0 OSPFv3 [RFC5340] defines an option bit for rout= er-LSAs known as the
88 =C2=A0= R-bit.=C2=A0 If the R-bit is clear, an OSPFv3 router can participate in
89 =C2=A0 OSPFv3 topology floodi= ng without acting as a transit router.=C2=A0 In such
90 =C2=A0 cases, other routers in the OSPFv3 routing= domain only install routes
91 = =C2=A0 used for local traffic.

93<= span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> =C2=A0 Thi= s functionality is particularly useful for BGP Route Reflectors,
94 =C2=A0 known as virtual Route Reflect= ors (vRRs), that are not in the
95 =C2=A0 forwarding path but are in central locations such as data cente= rs.
96 =C2=A0 Such Route Refle= ctors typically are used for route distribution and
97 =C2=A0 are not capable of forwarding transit traff= ic.=C2=A0 However, they need to
98 =C2=A0 learn the OSPF topology for:

100 = =C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 SPF computation for Optimal Route Reflection functionality = as
101 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 de= fined in [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-optimal-route-reflection]

103 =C2=A0 2.=C2=A0 Reachability resolution for its Route Reflector= Clients.

=
[nit] Clearly route refle= ction is not the only motivation for this work.=C2=A0 The justification onl= y related to RRs seems gratuitous.=C2=A0 Just a nit...

105 =C2=A0 This document defines the R-bit functionality equivale= nt for OSPFv2
106 =C2=A0 defin= ed in [RFC2328] by introducing a new router-LSA bit known as the
107 =C2=A0 "H-bit".=C2=A0 This= document updates appendix A.4.2 of RFC 2328.

[nit] s/OSPFv2 defined in [RFC2328]/OSPFv2 [RFC2328] =C2=A0It so= unds as if "the R-bit functionality equivalent for OSPFv2" is alr= eady in rfc2328.
[major] Please be = specific about what the Update is.


...
117 3.=C2=A0 H-bit Support

119 =C2=A0 This document defines a new router-LSA bit kno= wn as the Host Bit or
120 =C2= =A0 the H-bit.=C2=A0 An OSPFv2 router advertising a router-LSA with the H-b= it
121 =C2=A0 set indicates to= other OSPFv2 routers in the area supporting the
122 =C2=A0 functionality that it MUST NOT be used as a t= ransit router.=C2=A0 The bit
123 =C2=A0 value usage of the H-bit is reversed from the R-bit defined in OS= PFv3
124 =C2=A0 [RFC5340] to = support backward compatibility.=C2=A0 The modified OSPFv2
125 =C2=A0 router-LSA format is:

[minor] "...MUST NOT be used as a transit = router" =C2=A0Put a forward reference to =C2=A74.

[nit] The text keeps making reference to the R-bit.=C2= =A0 Even though there is a relationship, the H-bit is an independent featur= e.=C2=A0 IOW, I don't think there's a need to explain the relations= hip to OSPFv3.

<= /div>
[minor] On the same = topic: =C2=A0The comparison to OSPFv3 is made and the "reverse" b= it setting is justified "to support backward compatibility", but = that is not explained anywhere.=C2=A0 I was hoping that =C2=A75 (Auto Disco= very and Backward Compatibility) would say something, but it doesn't.

127 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3
128 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 = 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
129 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+
130 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LS age =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Options =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
131 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+
132 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Link State ID =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
133 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
134 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Advertising Router =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
135 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
136 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 LS sequence number =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
137 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
138 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 LS checksum =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 length =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<= /div>
139 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
140 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |H|0|0|N|W|V|E|B|= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0# links =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
141 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
142 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Link I= D =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
143 <= /span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
1= 44 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Link Data =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
145 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
146 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Type =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 # TOS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0metric =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
147 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
148 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
149 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
150 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0TOS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0TOS =C2=A0metric =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
151 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
152 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Link ID =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
153 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+
154 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Link Data =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |
155 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
156 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0... = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|

15= 8 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0bit H
1= 59 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When set, an OSPFv2 router is a non-transit rout= er and is
160 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0incapable of forwarding transit traffic.

[nit] Please label the figure: Figure 1...

[minor] Even though it seems obvious fr= om the figure, please be explicit in saying that the H-bit is the first bit= (or however that bit is identified)...

162 = =C2=A0 When the H-bit is set, an OSPFv2 router is a non-transit router and<= /div>
163 =C2=A0 should not be used = to forward transit traffic.=C2=A0 In this mode, the
164 =C2=A0 other OSPFv2 routers in the area SHOULD NO= T use the originating
165 =C2= =A0 OSPFv2 router for transit traffic, but MAY use the OSPFv2 router for
166 =C2=A0 local traffic destine= d to that OSPFv2 router.

[minor] Th= e first/second sentences seem redundant: "should not be used to forwar= d transit traffic...SHOULD NOT use the originating OSPFv2 router for transi= t traffic".
[major] When would= the non-transit router be used for transit?=C2=A0 IOW, why use "SHOUL= D NOT" and not "MUST NOT"?

[major] "MAY use the OSPFv2 router for local traffic destined t= o that OSPFv2 router" =C2=A0 I'm not sure what behavior is being s= pecified here.=C2=A0 The text sounds as if it was optional to even consider= the router as a traffic destination.=C2=A0 Is that the intent?=C2=A0 Why?= =C2=A0 What would make a network operator decide one way or the other?

168 =C2=A0 An OSPFv2 router originating a router-= LSA with the H-bit set SHOULD
169 =C2=A0 advertise all its non-local router links with a link cost of
170 =C2=A0 MaxLinkMetric as defin= ed in Section 3 of [RFC6987].=C2=A0 This is to
171 =C2=A0 increase the applicability of the H-bit to part= ial deployments where
172 =C2= =A0 it is the responsibility of the operator to ensure that OSPFv2
173 =C2=A0 routers not supporting the = H-bit do not install routes causing
174 =C2=A0 routing loops.

[ma= jor] When would a router not advertise MaxLinkMetric?=C2=A0 IOW, why use SH= OULD and not MUST?
<= br>
[major] What are= "non-local router links"?=C2=A0 I always thought of links to be = local to the router...what am I missing?

[nit] s/advertise all its non-local router links with a link cost of = MaxLinkMetric as defined in Section 3 of [RFC6987]/advertise all its non-lo= cal router links with a link cost of MaxLinkMetric [RFC6987]

176 =C2=A0 When the H-bit is set, IPv4 prefixes associate= d with local interfaces
177 = =C2=A0 in other areas MAY be advertised in summary LSAs.=C2=A0 Non-local IP= v4
178 =C2=A0 prefixes, e.g., = those advertised by other routers and installed
179 =C2=A0 during the SPF computation, MAY be advertised = in summary-LSAs if
1= 80 =C2=A0 = configured by policy.=C2=A0 Likewise, when the H-bit is set, only IPv4
181 =C2=A0 prefixes associated wit= h local interfaces MAY be advertised in AS-
182 =C2=A0 external LSAs.=C2=A0 Non-local IPv4 prefixes, e.g.= , those exported from
183 =C2= =A0 other routing protocols, MUST NOT be advertised in AS-external-LSAs.
184 =C2=A0 Finally, when the H-b= it is set, an Area Border Router (ABR) MUST
185 =C2=A0 advertise a consistent H-bit setting in its self-o= riginated router-
18= 6 =C2=A0 L= SAs for all attached areas.

[minor]= Some of the behavior specified in this paragraph may be non intuitive -- f= or example: "When the H-bit is set, IPv4 prefixes associated with loca= l interfaces in other areas MAY be advertised in summary LSAs." =C2=A0= During normal operation (aka rfc2328), these prefixes are always advertised= (assuming normal areas, etc.)...and given that these are local to the rout= er, it can be argued that one is not using the router as transit...on the o= ther hand, going to a different area can be interpreted as transit.=C2=A0 I= n either case, it would be nice if more was said about the optional nature = of including these prefixes in the summary LSA.=C2=A0 What are the operatio= nal considerations?
=
[minor] The sam= e comment for "prefixes associated with local interfaces MAY be advert= ised in AS-external LSAs".

[ma= jor] "Non-local IPv4 prefixes...MAY be advertised in summary-LSAs if c= onfigured by policy." =C2=A0Doesn't advertising result in the rout= er being transit?=C2=A0 Doesn't it defeats the purpose of setting the H= -bit?=C2=A0 But there may be operational reasons to do so -- e.g. if the ro= uter is the only ABR...

[major] &qu= ot;Non-local IPv4 prefixes...MUST NOT be advertised in AS-external-LSAs.&qu= ot; =C2=A0This behavior seems consistent with the purpose of the H-bit, but= not with the rest of the paragraph.=C2=A0 Again, why is this different (op= erationally) than transiting for non-external inter-area prefixes.

[major] "...an Area Border Router (ABR= ) MUST advertise a consistent H-bit setting in its self-originated router-L= SAs for all attached areas." =C2=A0 What do you mean by "consiste= nt"?=C2=A0 Do you mean "the same", i.e. be non-transit for a= ll areas?=C2=A0 Do you mean "compatible", i.e. so that the settin= g avoids potential loops or black holes?=C2=A0 Please be specific.=C2=A0 An= d please explain why -- again, what are the operational considerations?


...
214 5= .=C2=A0 Auto Discovery and Backward Compatibility

216 =C2=A0 To avoid the possibility of any routing loops due to parti= al
217 =C2=A0 deployment, this= document defines a OSPF Router-Information LSA
218 =C2=A0 functional capability bit known as the Host Su= pport capability.
[minor] A referen= ce to rfc7770 would be nice.

[mayor= ] I'm guessing that the RI LSA MUST be area-scoped, right?=C2=A0 Please= be specific.

220 =C2=A0 Auto Discovery via a= nnouncement of the Host Support Functional
221 =C2=A0 Capability ensures that the H-bit functionality and= its associated
222<= span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> =C2=A0 SPF= changes SHOULD only take effect if all the routers in a given
223 =C2=A0 OSPF area support this function= ality.

[major] When can the functio= nality take effect even if not all routers in the area support it?=C2=A0 Or= maybe it is that it won't take effect even if all routers support it..= .=C2=A0 IOW, why SHOULD and not MUST?

[major] There's no guarantee that the RI LSA will reach a router bef= ore the route-carrying LSAs -- which I think implies that SPF could be run = before verifying full H-bit support.=C2=A0 The result may be a loop...or a = loop may exist until the lack of area-wide support is verified... IOW, it s= eems to me that this auto discovery mechanism may not work as expected.=C2= =A0 Migration is an important Deployment Consideration.

[major] What is the process to verify area-wide suppor= t?=C2=A0 Should the router build a tree...run SPF...inspect the LSAs...??= =C2=A0 I'm assuming/hoping that this is a common enough operation that = it is specified already somewhere else...

225 = =C2=A0 Implementations are encouraged to provide a configuration parameter=
226 =C2=A0 to manually overri= de enforcement of the H-bit functionality in
227 =C2=A0 partial deployments where the topology guarantees= that OSPFv2 routers
228 =C2= =A0 not supporting the H-bit do not compute routes resulting in routing
229 =C2=A0 loops.=C2=A0 More prec= isely, the advertisement of MaxLinkMetric for the
230 =C2=A0 router's non-local links will prevent OS= PFv2 routers not supporting
231 =C2=A0 the H-bit from attempting to use it for transit traffic.

[minor] The text seems to indicate what the = second sentence is a clarification of the first one: "Implementations = are encouraged to... More precisely..." =C2=A0But in reality you are t= alking about two different things: the ability to consider the H-bit even i= n partial deployments, *and*, advertising MaxLinkMetric.=C2=A0 Please consi= der rewording to clarify.

233 6.=C2=A0 OSPF AS= -External-LSAs/NSSA LSAs with Type 2 Metrics

235 =C2=A0 When calculating the path to an OSPF AS-External-LSA or NSSA-LSA= with
236 =C2=A0 a Type-2 metr= ic, the advertised Type-2 metric is taken as more
237 =C2=A0 significant than the OSPF intra-area or inte= r-area path.=C2=A0 Hence,
238 = =C2=A0 advertising the links with MaxLinkMetric as specified in [RFC6987]
239 =C2=A0 does not discourage = transit traffic when calculating AS external or
240 =C2=A0 NSSA routes.=C2=A0 Consequently, OSPF routers = implementing [RFC6987] or
241 = =C2=A0 this specification should advertise a Type-2 metric of LSInfinity fo= r
242 =C2=A0 any self-originat= ed AS-External-LSAs or NSSA-LSAs in situations when
243 =C2=A0 the OSPF router is acting as a stub router= [RFC6987] or implementing
244 = =C2=A0 this specification.

[major]= Should there be Normative language in this paragraph?

[major] This paragraph talks about what a stub router (= rfc6987) should do.=C2=A0 In order to do that, this document should be tagg= ed to Update rfc6987.=C2=A0 Is that the intent?

246 <= /span>7.=C2=A0 IANA Considerations

248 =C2= =A0 IANA is requested to create the OSPF Router-LSA bit registry with the
249 =C2=A0 following assignment= s:

251 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Value =C2= =A0 Description =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reference
252 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x01 =C2=A0= =C2=A0Area Border Router (B-bit) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2328]
253 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x02 =C2=A0 =C2=A0AS Boundary Router (E-bit= ) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2328]
254 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 0x04 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Virtual Link Endpoint (V-bit) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC2328]
255 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x08 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Historic (W-bit) =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC1584]

[major] = Even though rfc1584 is classified as Historic, that doesn't mean that t= he bit is as well, or that it has been deprecated (at least I didn't se= e that in rfc5110).=C2=A0 Please put a name to it -- "wild-card multic= ast"?

256 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x1= 0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unconditional NSSA Translator (Nt-bit) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[= RFC3101]
257 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A00x20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unassigned
258 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x40 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unassigned
<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">259 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x80 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0Host (H-bit) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This Document

[major] What should be the assignment policy (r= fc8126)?

<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] Besides the 8 bits= above, the Router-LSA (rfc2328) has another 8 bits (to the right) that see= m unassigned...should they be included in this registry as well?

[major nit] I couldn't find where rfc2328= talks about the value of these bits being 0 and what to do if they are not= .=C2=A0 By creating this new registry, you have the opportunity to (at leas= t) clarify that.
261 =C2=A0 This document als= o defines a new Router Functional Capability
262 =C2=A0 [RFC7770] known as the Host Support Functional Ca= pability.=C2=A0 This
263 =C2= =A0 document requests IANA to allocate the value of this capability from
264 =C2=A0 the Router Functional= Capability Bits TLV.

[minor] s/TLV= /Registry

=
266 8.=C2=A0 Security Considerations=

268 =C2=A0 This document introduces no new= security considerations beyond those
269 =C2=A0 already specified in [RFC6987], [RFC2328], and [RFC5340]= .

[major] <SecDir hat on> [*= ]

This section says nothing! =C2= =A0rfc6987 has no Security Considerations to speak of (sorry!)...rfc2328= 9;s Security Considerations only talk about authentication, and there's= no mention of rfc5709 or rfc7474...and rfc5340 doesn't apply because t= his document is not about OSPFv3 -- also, rfc5340 doesn't have specific= Security Considerations related to the R-bit.

<hat off>

[*] I d= on't really have a SecDir hat...just pretending I do.

Suggestion: tell the reader why there are no new sec= urity considerations. =C2=A0"This document introduces functionality to= do a, b, and c...=C2=A0 Non of that affects security..." =C2=A0Of cou= rse, more words would be nice.

Ther= e is one specific item that I think should be mentioned as a risk. =C2=A0= =C2=A75 talks about using Auto Discovery "to avoid the possibility of = any routing loops due to partial deployment".=C2=A0 Even with proper a= uthentication, there is the possibility that a (rogue) router can advertise= the Host Support capability without really supporting it (there's no w= ay to verify!!).=C2=A0 The result can be a loop...=C2=A0 I don't think = this issue can be mitigated, but mentioning it would go a long way in demon= strating that you at least thought about the issues.


...
279 10.1.=C2=A0 Normativ= e References
...
290 =C2=A0 [RFC3101] =C2=A0Murphy= , P., "The OSPF Not-So-Stubby Area (NSSA) Option",
291 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0RFC 3101, DOI 10.17487/RFC3101, January 2003,
292 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0<https://www.rfc-= editor.org/info/rfc3101>.

29= 4 =C2=A0 [= RFC5340] =C2=A0Coltun, R., Ferguson, D., Moy, J., and A. Lindem, "OSPF=
295 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for IPv6", RFC 5340, DOI 10.17487/RFC5340, Jul= y 2008,
296 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5340>.

[minor] These 2 references can be Informative.<= /div>


...
307 10.2.=C2=A0 Informative References
...
319 =C2= =A0 [RFC6987] =C2=A0Retana, A., Nguyen, L., Zinin, A., White, R., and D.
320 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0McPherson, "OSPF Stub Router Advertisement", = RFC 6987,
321 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DOI 10.17487/RFC6987, September 2013,
322 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6987>.

[major] Because of the specification of the use of MaxLinkM= etric, this reference has to be Normative. =C2=A0rfc6987 is already in the = DownRef registry.

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X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_31F7DFA57BB54E79AFD9829AE34BC485ciscocom_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 64.101.220.152, xch-rtp-012.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 17:08:54 -0000 --_004_31F7DFA57BB54E79AFD9829AE34BC485ciscocom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_31F7DFA57BB54E79AFD9829AE34BC485ciscocom_" --_000_31F7DFA57BB54E79AFD9829AE34BC485ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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definitions=2018-11-28_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1811280185 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 21:33:58 -0000 --_000_130DB3CF2B314CAEABE6E1B79A330820junipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +lsr to the cc Hi Alvaro, On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana > wrote: [major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is differen= t between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471. The differen= ce comes from the correction made to address this report [1]. Instead of t= rying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be f= iled against rfc7471. Please submit it and I will approve. [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5486 Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong? Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 p= aragraph in question: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since t= he same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves t= he duplication! The erratum wants it to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence duplicated, but change "avai= lable" to "(residual)" in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly= be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix wou= ld be to change the paragraph to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available residual bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for= the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Nai= vely, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the = equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly = equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wro= ng. If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as wr= itten. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own errat= um as you suggest, I guess. $0.02, --John P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00. --_000_130DB3CF2B314CAEABE6E1B79A330820junipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6F40BE95C2852D4EAFBC9EA78397DFFA@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +lsr to the cc

Hi Alvaro,

On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wro= te:

[major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is differen= t between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471.  The dif= ference comes from the correction made to address this report [1].  In= stead of trying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471.  Pleas= e submit it and I will approve.


Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong?

Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7= 810 paragraph in question:

   =
Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or = similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the = erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be:

Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence du= plicated, but change "available" to "(residual)" in the= first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyeballing it= , it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change the paragraph to be:

   =
Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  =
For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly:

   =
Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available residual ba=
ndwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can= 't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter = of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they tr= uly are exactly equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong.

If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to = be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would ne= ed its own erratum as you suggest, I guess.

$0.02,

--John

P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsberg-lsr-i= sis-rfc7810bis-00.
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Comments inline Yours Irrespectively, John From: Idr On Behalf Of John Scudder Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:34 PM To: Alvaro Retana Cc: lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf. org ; draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ie= tf.org; Hares Susan ; idr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Idr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draf= t-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] +lsr to the cc Hi Alvaro, On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana > wrote: [major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is differen= t between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471. The differen= ce comes from the correction made to address this report [1]. Instead of t= rying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be f= iled against rfc7471. Please submit it and I will approve. [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5486 Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong? Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 p= aragraph in question: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since t= he same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves t= he duplication! The erratum wants it to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence duplicated, but change "avai= lable" to "(residual)" in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly= be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix wou= ld be to change the paragraph to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. [JD] John's suggestion, above, is correct. in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available residual bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for= the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Nai= vely, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the = equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly = equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wro= ng. If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as wr= itten. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own errat= um as you suggest, I guess. $0.02, --John P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00. --_000_BN7PR05MB4354E24C37DB62D04A3CF104C7D10BN7PR05MB4354namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Comments inline

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; On Behalf Of John Scudder
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:34 PM
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-idr= -te-pm-bgp@ietf.org; Hares Susan <shares@ndzh.com>; idr-chairs@ietf.o= rg
Subject: [Idr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review = of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14]

 

+lsr to the cc

 

Hi Alvaro,

 

On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:<= o:p>

 

[major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only d= efinition that is different between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis = and rfc7471.  The difference comes from the correction made to address this report [1].  Instead of trying to fix the defini= tion here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471.&n= bsp; Please submit it and I will approve.

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum a= ll wrong?

 

Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a prob= lem with the RFC 7810 paragraph in question:

 

   Avai=
lable Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a=

   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE float=
ing-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link o=
r forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual =
bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for t=
he actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.&nb=
sp; For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of =
the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth=
 used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path p=
ackets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the=
 sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.



 






It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste prob=
lem or similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. B=
ut the erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be:






 






Available Bandwidth: This field=
 carries the available bandwidth on a


   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floa=
ting-point


   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link =
or forwarding


   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual=
 bandwidth


   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for =
the actual


   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.&n=
bsp; For a bundled


   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of=
 the component


   link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwid=
th used for the


   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path =
packets.For a


   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be th=
e sum of the


   component link available bandwidths.






 






So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sent=
ence duplicated, but change "available" to "(residual)"=
 in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyebal=
ling it, it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change
 the paragraph to be:






 






   Avai=
lable Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a=



   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE float=
ing-point


   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link o=
r forwarding


   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual =
bandwidth


   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for t=
he actual


   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.&nb=
sp; For a bundled


   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of =
the component


   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth=
 used for the


   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path p=
ackets.  For a


   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the su=
m of the


   component link available bandwidths.


 


[JD]  John’s suggestion, above, is cor=
rect.






 






in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly:<=
o:p>






 






   Avai=
lable Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a=



   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE float=
ing-point


   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link o=
r forwarding


   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual =
bandwidth


   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for t=
he actual


   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.&nb=
sp; For a bundled


   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the=
 component


   link available residual bandwidths minus th=
e measured bandwidth used for the


   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path pack=
ets.  For a


   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the=
 sum of the


   component link available bandwidths.





 






I have no idea which of these is right, but the erra=
tum can't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a =
matter of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe =
they truly are exactly equivalent
 or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong.






 






If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 lo=
oks to be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 w=
ould need its own erratum as you suggest, I guess.






 






$0.02,






 






--John






 






P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00.
--_000_BN7PR05MB4354E24C37DB62D04A3CF104C7D10BN7PR05MB4354namp_-- From nobody Wed Nov 28 14:16:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D46130E27; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.992 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.992 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uGcw-3GL8i6K; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x336.google.com (mail-ot1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48532126F72; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 40so25091637oth.4; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aBC0SsAdDb4HbH+/DynY7YTGGCxbDDD2I4VYsM1auOE=; b=gt6JdYoIVWEy/6nAl2NT9vsB6veQz+frr4yQHnPSxxqPb+6mqzhLNXJ55Cr0ndSGxe naQeE+dSlfK+nJqDrZTcVzkMmr3cMy6mDgl1WzaHu6HI42xZiOsCQ/0oQJriT9QRfZ+1 AR8nMwiy4EqdvWO6qfBWPLKBl/+MD9l+YQ3k4kW8rARFTUK3oh9hVC3lt23iCceAz3Cl bGQ5ZRKsswoCyws2ZEUoUcqENDUW6UMKqTVsMbLem8fHpW4fJhLc2lveRg0zjJvMFtrc 3rm+NtOMklnWv4kEBYF/Ephf9TswDDtMWih2WZetSfVD5wvyXqa7gO5Cc0Gx2DBc+Gad KPeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aBC0SsAdDb4HbH+/DynY7YTGGCxbDDD2I4VYsM1auOE=; b=cSHMfraYkSG8FooU3rz58skYqus4QGTjdBRVK1wcAI4fnDMutq5mpYS6sEVSPGvjvO cLubF40S4qJEt1wCRmleiYWskFeEU8+ztcSVqQjOK/4ibSUPUQdvNvNWaNmNHSgm29zt j9AtXqc9uJn8kYpH9mDxyjqj60u6wzxNZnIdsnl+2ZX2jFL+O/fCmaGIh5T9EuQCmRua L5ua0bhibTOoTEshoiXaaB1Wv7jmSLmDXbPywMdg+NpQ2mwwHYjZJcDS6skmT3AgU5Q5 8fkh19nzJ3A5s87SXrGBikDCSkna8qA1W1dTF3viKIm04AfE9crekHP32i9qdVTYqXyw 88ig== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYcUa2G9/xi7Ea0KNhiOtNRY158u5ZWUGXg+hf2KtIe7F4+6BR3 9k5D7zTDjhhtTXY95euCu6/+DbXcL0r29PjbdBY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Uo4oJH4p079r1wMw/H/ZGESIAS7FxeZSXsmxG0wePYX8wZ/gVK8ItINP0Ar3TccTN9GPQLBNjgXibNV/f/P5U= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2269:: with SMTP id o96mr23318869ota.45.1543443356574; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:55 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <130DB3CF-2B31-4CAE-ABE6-E1B79A330820@juniper.net> References: <130DB3CF-2B31-4CAE-ABE6-E1B79A330820@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:15:55 -0800 Message-ID: To: John Scudder Cc: Hares Susan , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ffe81f057bc0e8ee" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:15:59 -0000 --000000000000ffe81f057bc0e8ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John: Hi! I should have pointed to the current version of rfc7810bis [1], which now reads: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5 = ) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link residual bandwidths (see Section 4.5 = ) minus the sum of the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets on all component links. This version gets rid of the duplication and uses =E2=80=9Cresidual=E2=80= =9D. Because it=E2=80=99s been through WGLC I am assuming it is correct. If not, please let me know *now*, as I am about to start the IETF LC. Thanks! Alvaro. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 On November 28, 2018 at 4:33:54 PM, John Scudder (jgs@juniper.net) wrote: +lsr to the cc Hi Alvaro, On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: [major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is different between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471. The difference comes from the correction made to address this report [1]. Instead of trying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471. Please submit it and I will approve. [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5486 Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong? Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 paragraph in question: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. *For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths.* It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. *For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. * So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence duplicated, but change "available" to "(residual)" in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change the paragraph to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available *residual* bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong. If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own erratum as you suggest, I guess. $0.02, --John P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00. --000000000000ffe81f057bc0e8ee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
John:

Hi!

<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:= 13px;margin:0px;line-height:auto">I should have pointed to the current vers= ion of rfc7810bis [1], which now reads:
   Available Bandwidth: This field carries the =
available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for t=
he actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link residual bandwidths (see Section 4.5) minus the sum =
of the
   measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE
   label switched path packets on all component links.
This version gets rid of the= duplication and uses =E2=80=9Cresidual=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Because it=E2=80=99= s been through WGLC I am assuming it is correct.=C2=A0 If not, please let m= e know *now*, as I am about to start the IETF LC.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


On November 28,= 2018 at 4:33:54 PM, John Scudder (jgs@j= uniper.net) wrote:

+lsr to the cc

Hi Alvaro,

On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail= .com> wrote:

[major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is different between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471.=C2=A0 The difference comes from the correction made to address this report [1].=C2=A0 Instead of trying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471.=C2=A0 Please submit it and I will approve.


Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong?

Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 paragraph in question:

Availab=
le Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be:

Available Ba=
ndwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence duplicated, but change "available" to "(residual)" in t= he first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change the paragraph to be:

Availab=
le Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  =
For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly:

Availab=
le Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available residual ba=
ndwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong.

If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own erratum as you suggest, I guess.

$0.02,

--John

P.S.: I see the defect remains in=C2=A0draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00.
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by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id 32so25091691ota.12; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:34:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DlYTQljLLJysr2mjKyjHzg5JrdlLUNg48mBYDJD2Xsk=; b=nXEJDmnkPmskU4ZJpnTuWvhBj50ZeWxoAbl9QVto/ZuwhEWbQ6yaPIYy3/+EeR63hg 0jYtIYVTG3FnsOMmB9SAzHM4KSEtEVJnWh1XY4SJSFXo18pHrlIzTswZPR5HG1xNin05 DQGIYUYoaDzZYyYCyPCFCcy9oPf81CgDDcyPdmDR2tjNmqKB5Wi8SivnqqGcE2qixp/p wgXJnja0GlMqqss/oIirPtfZeAda1tgYzAWd7H1gWHz+1EkL/36CNOHD07E8OQa5RBNX pqT6hulempdoVKYGZrQ2ZLRxor4d5UBC8JDJiUw1sggp6w7vwJcPUHd0ljzpRsRLeqJr UmHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DlYTQljLLJysr2mjKyjHzg5JrdlLUNg48mBYDJD2Xsk=; b=RSNbm4FZcG5ea3JI+v5aLcRcNq80LdVpJfyYupuuBjq25E4Umji+8AUdkACL7m/hjC 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Hares Susan , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , lsr-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cb25d7057bc12cde" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:34:58 -0000 --000000000000cb25d7057bc12cde Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am explicitly copying the authors of rfc7810bis to get them involved in this discussion. Also cc=E2=80=99d lsr-chairs. Even if the two versions are algebraically identical, and because the definitions in draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp depend on *both* documents, I would prefer it if the text was the same to avoid any confusion. We are still in time to make changes to either rfc7471 (erratum) or rfc7810bis. Thanks! Alvaro. On November 28, 2018 at 5:26:06 PM, John Scudder (jgs@juniper.net) wrote: Ah, I was looking at an old version of 7810bis, sorry about that. ISTM that: - if the two versions are actually algebraically identical (as I speculated but do not insist) then it would be nicer to adopt the "available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths" version since it matches the language in RFC 7471 and is less confusing that way, but if they're logically identical it doesn't reeeeally matter. - if John Drake is correct in his reply that the "available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths" is correct (implying the other version isn't, for some reason), then 7810bis is wrong and needs to be changed. - If 7810bis is correct, and John is wrong, then there needs to be an erratum against RFC 7471. I think that covers the universe of possibilities. I still don't know which is right, though. No additional charge, --John On Nov 28, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: John: Hi! I should have pointed to the current version of rfc7810bis [1], which now reads: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5 ) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link residual bandwidths (see Section 4.5 ) minus the sum of the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets on all component links. This version gets rid of the duplication and uses =E2=80=9Cresidual=E2=80= =9D. Because it=E2=80=99s been through WGLC I am assuming it is correct. If not, please let me know *now*, as I am about to start the IETF LC. Thanks! Alvaro. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 On November 28, 2018 at 4:33:54 PM, John Scudder (jgs@juniper.net) wrote: +lsr to the cc Hi Alvaro, On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote: [major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is different between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471. The difference comes from the correction made to address this report [1]. Instead of trying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471. Please submit it and I will approve. [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5486 Maybe I'm missing something but isn't that erratum all wrong? Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 paragraph in question: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. *For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths.* It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. *For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. * So the proposed "fix" is to leave the sentence duplicated, but change "available" to "(residual)" in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change the paragraph to be: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly: Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point format with units of bytes per second. For a link or forwarding adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available *residual* bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets. For a bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component link available bandwidths. I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong. If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own erratum as you suggest, I guess. $0.02, --John P.S.: I see the defect remains in draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00. --000000000000cb25d7057bc12cde Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
I am explicitly copying the authors of rfc7810bis to get them involved = in this discussion.=C2=A0 Also cc=E2=80=99d lsr-chairs.

Even if t= he two versions are algebraically identical, and because the definitions in= =C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp depend on *both* documents, I would prefer i= t if the text was the same to avoid any confusion.=C2=A0 We are still in ti= me to make changes to either rfc7471 (erratum) or rfc7810bis.

Th= anks!

Alvaro.

On November 28, 2= 018 at 5:26:06 PM, John Scudder (jgs@jun= iper.net) wrote:

Ah, I was looking at an old version of 7810bis, sorry about that.

ISTM that:

- if the two versions are actually algebraically identical (as I speculated but do not insist) then it would be nicer to adopt the "available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the=C2=A0component link available bandwidths" version since it matches the language in RFC 7471 and is less confusing that way, but if they're logically identical it doesn't reeeeally matter.
- if John Drake is correct in his reply that the "available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the=C2=A0component link available bandwidths" is correct (implying the other version isn't, for some reason), then 7810bis is wrong and needs to be changed.
- If 7810bis is correct, and John is wrong, then there needs to be an erratum against RFC 7471.

I think that covers the universe of possibilities. I still don't know which is right, though.

No additional charge,

--John

On Nov 28, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail= .com> wrote:

John:

Hi!

I should have pointed t= o the current version of rfc7810bis [1], which now reads:
Available Bandwidth: This field carries the availabl=
e bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link residual bandwidths (see Section 4.5) minus the sum of the
   measured bandwidth used for the actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE
   label switched path packets on all component links.
This version gets rid o= f the duplication and uses =E2=80=9Cresidual=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Because it=E2=80=99s been through WGLC I = am assuming it is correct.=C2=A0 If not, please let me know *now*, as I am about to start the IETF LC.

Thanks!

Alvaro.


On November 28, 2018 at 4:33:54 PM, John Scudder (jgs@juniper.net) wrote:

+lsr to the cc

Hi Alvaro,

On Nov 28, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Alvaro Retana <aretana.iet= f@gmail.com> wrote:
[major] AFAICT, Available Bandwidth is the only definition that is different between rfc7810/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis and rfc7471.=C2=A0 The difference comes from the correction made to address this report [1].=C2=A0 Instead of trying to fix the definition here, I think that a similar report should be filed against rfc7471.=C2=A0 Please submit it and I will approve.


Maybe I'm missing something but isn= 9;t that erratum all wrong?

Here is why I think so. I agree that there is a problem with the RFC 7810 paragraph in question:

Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth o=
n a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

It seems obvious that there was a cut-and-paste problem or similar, since the same sentence is duplicated with minor changes. But the erratum leaves the duplication! The erratum wants it to be:

Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth on a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  Fo=
r a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link (residual) bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

So the proposed "fix" is to leav= e the sentence duplicated, but change "available" to "(residual)&q= uot; in the first copy? I don't think that could possibly be right. Just eyeballing it, it seems to me as though the correct fix would be to change the paragraph to be:

Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth o=
n a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available bandwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  =
For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

in which case it would match RFC 7471. Or possibly:

Available Bandwidth: This field carries the available bandwidth o=
n a
   link, forwarding adjacency, or bundled link in IEEE floating-point
   format with units of bytes per second.  For a link or forwarding
   adjacency, available bandwidth is defined to be residual bandwidth
   (see Section 4.5) minus the measured bandwidth used for the actual
   forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a bundled
   link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the component
   link available residual ba=
ndwidths minus the measured bandwidth used for the
   actual forwarding of non-RSVP-TE label switched path packets.  For a
   bundled link, available bandwidth is defined to be the sum of the
   component link available bandwidths.

I have no idea which of these is right, but the erratum can't be right. Naively, they look algebraically the same, it's just a matter of where in the equation you subtract the measured bandwidth. Maybe they truly are exactly equivalent or maybe there is some subtlety that makes one right and one wrong.

If the first option above is right, then RFC 7471 looks to be correct as written. If the first option is wrong, then RFC 7471 would need its own erratum as you suggest, I guess.

$0.02,

--John

P.S.: I see the defect remains in=C2=A0draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00.

--000000000000cb25d7057bc12cde-- From nobody Wed Nov 28 14:38:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7429B124C04; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UuKLy7-ghZZB; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com (mail-oi1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 301C7126F72; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v6so24107852oif.2; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5DRHYI/MQVyenjpYkBRxUKkqDg6p3gEjlj25gma21rI=; b=CEDTCpS79fWO6m2g/5zqaUP05NRUF1vXdMm+Zu0peAOth4z7CijlzaNkAzDHQm3RS5 m7Rn0+WAR/dN5ISCAu9ytt1bCiFDUfGuqjFRvVlRRp3CyvtVhu/pzZJsx4r8cXDp3E3B Hrh+LoMBxobX32E9xbtj6yr0lGgEEiog4NrUJstk0eI/35jKrZ1jMF1XVffZvznEvVsZ FbIXHApASrJwgTIdNl5EEVyemchxNSp5+W0z4QVw4O+ktqyY5WMCj+ZObaBqlDYrSFYu 2p01KpC1IGT1ng4CsuoBMH0UiftAZn6r1YUgEnHgxysJisqdcKlsiABPiEcmnTmXiGIm x74g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5DRHYI/MQVyenjpYkBRxUKkqDg6p3gEjlj25gma21rI=; b=uCYYv5BOCQAGST8lN7upe0Tu3Vg4nTYoaMs2Nq7tGFrxptfYnSZBmAS8cbEUwtwt+b 5bwPT2Jo74tB7GJs9u4mWtAyjl4rGcy2KeVGQQjTHrLXhzSH/ymsVVZP0qswqb3bLmTT y9qNn/8MHsh4lw9sX2C65xeg8nQ65TU7FSb1tfAnyOiXCkFtp7bfL2MccE8rsF6BslWt DuCnCioFwHQCAi8uJLgvPvh1/kDK4D9XnLSyLC96QoKKpz/CJVs7Hymyv4J1Jgi6NejE FBJx0Jfr/QDRsSzanVu7KoSe9zAd7AbGU3P2P8Ejd3ARDoZVmp1njwONdwavgPd+TGKf 42eA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWa8cNQNu48QEDCK9sYpIQKVazvhUm+nwNJiydHTL6zOwMshypjw vyzYaA3zSdujhAwp7vBk75tSzbdN6TtWVn9MyUsJ5A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WuxKkTBOFUEbFAWJaQLGIq9rEXU55vGrejRxteAvMLAYNhyq5r3sJ50BLR0a/e2xoIkK/uUZCfOd0DbQSDye8= X-Received: by 2002:aca:aa81:: with SMTP id t123mr14648191oie.218.1543444682891; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:01 -0800 From: Alvaro Retana X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 14:38:01 -0800 Message-ID: To: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , lsr@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000de5ae057bc138f3" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:38:07 -0000 --0000000000000de5ae057bc138f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear authors: Thanks for taking on this work!! I have just a couple of comments. (1) There are too many authors in the front page. I know that the list was cut prior to rfc7810 being processed, and that Les was added to hold the pen on this revision, so I'll let this one proceed. Just one thing: please group the authors by affiliation (which will reduce the size of the header). (2) Both rfc7471 and rfc7810 can be Informative references. (3) There's an active thread related to the definition of Available Bandwidth [1]. Please keep an eye on it and participate as needed. I don't think the ongoing discussion is a showstopper at this point. I am starting the IETF Last Call. Thanks! Alvaro. [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/zOdpuIbCViJToCsC9mNnRmoEiQw --0000000000000de5ae057bc138f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Dear authors:

Thanks for taking on this work!!

I have just a couple of comments.

(1) There are too many authors in the front p= age.=C2=A0 I know that the list was cut prior to rfc7810 being processed, a= nd that Les was added to hold the pen on this revision, so I'll let thi= s one proceed.=C2=A0 Just one thing: please group the authors by affiliatio= n (which will reduce the size of the header).

(2) Both rfc7471 and rfc7810 can be Informative references.

(3) There's an active thread relate= d to the definition of Available Bandwidth [1].=C2=A0 Please keep an eye on= it and participate as needed.

I do= n't think the ongoing discussion is a showstopper at this point.=C2=A0 = I am starting the IETF Last Call.

Thanks!

<= div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">Alvaro.


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mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:46:05 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Alvaro Retana , John Scudder , "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" CC: Hares Susan , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] Thread-Index: AQHUh2IUrBnuVadtQ0WJMfZeIBYRAqVmJa2AgAAC0QCAAAJ8gP//nLSw Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:46:05 +0000 Message-ID: <0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <130DB3CF-2B31-4CAE-ABE6-E1B79A330820@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.67.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.11, xch-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:46:13 -0000 --_000_0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWx2YXJvIOKAkw0KDQpBcyBsZWFkIGF1dGhvciBvbiByZmM3ODEwYmlzIEkgYW0gaGFwcHkgdG8g bW9kaWZ5IHRoZSBsYW5ndWFnZSB0byBiZSBjb25zaXN0ZW50IHdpdGggUkZDNzQ3MS4gVGhhdCBz ZWVtcyBsaWtlIHRoZSBmYXIgZWFzaWVyIHBhdGh3YXkgc28gbG9uZyBhcyB3ZSBoYXZlIHlvdXIg YXNzdXJhbmNlICh3aGljaCBpdCBzZWVtcyB3ZSBkbykgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHdpbGwgbm90IHVuZHVs eSBkZWxheSBwcm9ncmVzcyBvZiByZmM3ODEwYmlzLg0KDQpJIGRvIGZpbmQgdGhhdCB0aGUgZmFj 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Zm9udC1zaXplOjEwLjBwdDtmb250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtIZWx2ZXRpY2EmcXVvdDssc2Fucy1z ZXJpZiI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250XCHALN001ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Nov 28 15:01:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01C9128BCC; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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AFSGD/Ux+RdHu+IVCXTRMmiUhbPun7udm7eV9qLhRxOJJJkFSGjPWAzovCyRmbWifaQtytwOMVO6Jj5RE7TtbaxYFjc= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e603:: with SMTP id d3mr19574505oih.289.1543446063556; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 18:01:02 -0500 From: Alvaro Retana In-Reply-To: <0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <130DB3CF-2B31-4CAE-ABE6-E1B79A330820@juniper.net> <0036030cefb74a5385c47470e8e71250@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Airmail (528) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 18:01:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , John Scudder , "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" Cc: Hares Susan , "idr-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf. org" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000592fa8057bc18a8a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:01:08 -0000 --000000000000592fa8057bc18a8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On November 28, 2018 at 5:46:08 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ( ginsberg@cisco.com) wrote: Les: Hi! As lead author on rfc7810bis I am happy to modify the language to be consistent with RFC7471. That seems like the far easier pathway so long as we have your assurance (which it seems we do) that this will not unduly delay progress of rfc7810bis. I already requested the start of the IETF LC for rfc7810bis. I don=E2=80= =99t think the potential changes we=E2=80=99re talking about will be that significant = to delay. I do find that the fact that you raised this issue in the context of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp rather confusing (though I can appreciate that it was your review of the idr draft that brought the discrepancy to your attention). Yes, draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp was simply first on my queue=E2=80=A6so I rea= d it first. It would have been less confusing =E2=80=93 at least to me =E2=80=93 if you= had raised this point in a separate email regarding rfc7810bis. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/92-08uCr6-ctnRU9i3FHA-ucFEw Thanks! Alvaro. --000000000000592fa8057bc18a8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On November 28, 2018 at 5:46:08= PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) (ginsber= g@cisco.com) wrote:

Les:

<= /font>
Hi!
=

As = lead author on rfc7810bis I am happy to modify the language to be consisten= t with RFC7471. That seems like the far easier pathway so long as we have y= our assurance (which it seems we do) that this will not unduly delay progre= ss of rfc7810bis.

I already requested the start of the IETF LC for rfc7810bis.= =C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think the potential changes we=E2=80=99re talking ab= out will be that significant to delay.

I do find that the fact that you raised this issue in the = context of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp rather confusing (though I can apprecia= te that it was your review of the idr draft that brought the discrepancy to= your attention).

Yes,=C2=A0draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp was simply first on my queue=E2= =80=A6so I read it first.

It would have been less confusing =E2=80=93 at least to me =E2=80=93 if= you had raised this point in a separate email regarding rfc7810bis.=

https://ma= ilarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/92-08uCr6-ctnRU9i3FHA-ucFEw=C2=A0

Thanks!

Alvaro.




--000000000000592fa8057bc18a8a-- From nobody Wed Nov 28 15:08:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21121277C8; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:08:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ketant@cisco.com, Ketan Talaulikar , lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <154344652089.13648.8720737396948274076.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:08:40 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Last Call: (IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 23:08:41 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Link State Routing WG (lsr) to consider the following document: - 'IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-12-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network- performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to data-path selection as other metrics. This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information can be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion. The information distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to make path-selection decisions based on network performance. Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which network-performance information is distributed. The mechanisms for measuring network performance or acting on that information, once distributed, are outside the scope of this document. This document obsoletes RFC 7810. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3257/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3259/ From nobody Wed Nov 28 22:34:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBE7130E12 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:34:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z34zIq58GbZF for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C15612F1AC for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2018 22:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E3D63A70BC7AF for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 06:34:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 06:34:24 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.69]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:34:18 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHUh6zqof8Whcdp6UC9WPo7rDaUAqVmSzUw Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 06:34:18 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.244] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-wu-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-01.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 06:34:30 -0000 di0wMSBoYXMganVzdCBiZWVuIHBvc3RlZCB0byBhZGRyZXNzIHJlY2VpdmVkIGNvbW1lbnRzIHNv IGZhci4NClRoZSBkaWZmIGlzOg0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlmZj91cmwyPWRy YWZ0LXd1LWxzci1wY2UtZGlzY292ZXJ5LXNlY3VyaXR5LXN1cHBvcnQtMDENCg0KLVFpbg0KLS0t LS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IEktRC1Bbm5vdW5jZSBbbWFpbHRvOmktZC1hbm5vdW5j 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Received: from OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::65de:2f08:41e6:ebbe]) by OPEXCLILM7E.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::b91c:ea2c:ac8a:7462%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:43:58 +0100 From: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 Thread-Index: AdSBhYgiLVXk+bRuTn68pWj1+aWyiQFHmleAABtuT+AACtVEAAAkvUKA Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 10:43:58 +0000 Message-ID: <26904_1543488239_5BFFC2EF_26904_436_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B777AA8@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <576_1542796445_5BF5349D_576_261_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B7731BE@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <58C71B78-1C6A-4FB5-B64A-7A38628028C1@cisco.com> <19021_1543406661_5BFE8445_19021_254_3_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B776CB0@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <31F7DFA5-7BB5-4E79-AFD9-829AE34BC485@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <31F7DFA5-7BB5-4E79-AFD9-829AE34BC485@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.4] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B777AA8OPEXCLILMA4corp_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Shepherd's review of ietf-ospf.yang and draft-ietf-ospf-yang-17 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 10:44:05 -0000 --_004_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B777AA8OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B777AA8OPEXCLILMA4corp_" --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924B777AA8OPEXCLILMA4corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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<154351936632.25938.11884630997758101699@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:22:46 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:22:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions Authors : Les Ginsberg Stefano Previdi Spencer Giacolone Dave Ward John Drake Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-03.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2018-11-29 Abstract: In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network- performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to data-path selection as other metrics. This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information can be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion. The information distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to make path-selection decisions based on network performance. Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which network-performance information is distributed. The mechanisms for measuring network performance or acting on that information, once distributed, are outside the scope of this document. This document obsoletes RFC 7810. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 29 11:32:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD45130E96; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:32:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-1.459, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8izgmt6K50lG; Thu, 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multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ff790d4b1dc248d5961ba3dacf735d80XCHALN001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Available Bandwidth erratum 5486 [was: Re: AD Review of draft-ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp-14] X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:32:02 -0000 --_000_ff790d4b1dc248d5961ba3dacf735d80XCHALN001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbHNyLWlzaXMtcmZjNzgxMGJp cy0wMyBoYXMgYmVlbiBwdWJsaXNoZWQuIFRoaXMgYWRkcmVzc2VzIHRoZSBpbmNvbnNpc3RlbmN5 IHdpdGggUkZDNzQ3MS4NCg0KICAgTGVzDQoNCg0KRnJvbTogTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVy 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"Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000092b2d057be6786d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 19:04:34 -0000 --000000000000092b2d057be6786d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On November 29, 2018 at 2:36:30 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ( ginsberg@cisco.com) wrote: Les: (1) There are too many authors in the front page. I know that the list was cut prior to rfc7810 being processed, and that Les was added to hold the pen on this revision, so I'll let this one proceed. Just one thing: please group the authors by affiliation (which will reduce the size of the header)= . [Les:] Given that it is customary to list the editors first, I find it awkward to do this. Hmm..I couldn=E2=80=99t find that in rfc7322 (RFC Style Guide). Not a showstopper. (2) Both rfc7471 and rfc7810 can be Informative references. [Les:] I find this request a bit odd. RFC7810 would certainly seem to be a normative reference as 99% of the text in the bis version is taken verbatim from RFC 7810. RFC7471 is referenced only in the Appendix, but still =E2=80=93 it is the consistency in language between the two documents which is one of the motivations for changes. This seems pretty essential to me. ??? "Normative references specify documents that must be read to understand=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=9D [1] I don=E2=80=99t think either reference is necessary to understand the conte= nt of this document. On one hand, rfc7810 is being obsoleted, which means that this document is completely replacing it (anything that would have been relevant from rfc7810 is now in this document). OTOH, while consistency is nice, the text in the Appendix doesn=E2=80=99t carry normative wight. BTW, the text where rfc7471 is referenced is this: "This matches the corresponding advertisements specified in the equivalent OSPF specification [RFC7471] and the corresponding BGP-LS specification [I-D.ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp].=E2=80=9D According to your argument, I-D.ietf-idr-te-pm-bgp would also be essential and would need to be a Normative reference=E2=80=A6. In any case, there is no significant issue with a misplaced Normative reference. The inverse (Informative references that should be Normative) is much more important. [1] https://www.ietf.org/blog/iesg-statement-normative-and-informative-referenc= es/ (3) There's an active thread related to the definition of Available Bandwidth [1]. Please keep an eye on it and participate as needed. [Les:] V3 of this draft has been published addressing this point. Thanks for the update. If you agree with my comments above there is then no need for any additional changes. I obviously don=E2=80=99t, but there=E2=80=99s no need to discuss any more.= I won=E2=80=99t stop the document from processing as is. Alvaro. --000000000000092b2d057be6786d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
On November 29, 2018 at 2:36:30= PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) (ginsber= g@cisco.com) wrote:

Les:

<= /font>

(1) There are too many authors in th= e front page.=C2=A0 I know that the list was cut prior to rfc7810 being pro= cessed, and that Les was added to hold the pen on this revision, so I'l= l let this one proceed.=C2=A0 Just one thing: please group the authors by a= ffiliation (which will reduce the size of the header).

=C2=A0

[Les:] Given that it is customary to list the editors first, I f= ind it awkward to do this.=C2= =A0

Hmm..I couldn=E2=80=99t find that in rfc7322 (RFC Style Guide).

Not a showstopper.


(2) Both = rfc7471 and rfc7810 can be Informative references.

=C2=A0

[Les:] I find this request a bit odd.

R= FC7810 would certainly seem to be a normative reference as 99% of the text = in the bis version is taken verbatim from RFC 7810.

=

RFC7471 is referenced only in the Appendi= x, but still =E2=80=93 it is the consistency in language between the two do= cuments which is one of the motivations for changes. This seems pretty esse= ntial to me.

???

=

"Normative refer= ences specify documents that must be read to understand=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D [= 1]

I don=E2=80=99t think either refer= ence is necessary to understand the content of this document.=C2=A0 On one = hand, rfc7810 is being obsoleted, which means that this document is complet= ely replacing it (anything that would have been relevant from rfc7810 is no= w in this document).=C2=A0 OTOH, while consistency is nice, the text in the= Appendix doesn=E2=80=99t carry normative wight.

BTW, the text where rfc7471 is referenced is this: "This m= atches the corresponding advertisements specified in the equivalent OSPF sp= ecification [RFC7471] and the corresponding BGP-LS specification [I-D.ietf-= idr-te-pm-bgp].=E2=80=9D =C2=A0According to your argument,=C2=A0I-D.ietf-id= r-te-pm-bgp would also be essential and would need to be a Normative refere= nce=E2=80=A6.

In any case, there is n= o significant issue with a misplaced Normative reference.=C2=A0 The inverse= (Informative references that should be Normative) is much more important.<= /font>

[1]=C2=A0https://www.= ietf.org/blog/iesg-statement-normative-and-informative-references/=C2= =A0


(3) There's an active thread related to the definition of = Available Bandwidth [1].=C2=A0 Please keep an eye on it and participate as = needed.

=C2=A0

[Les:] V3 of this draft has been pub= lished addressing this point.

Thanks for the update.

=

If you agree with= my comments above there is then no need for any additional changes.=

I ob= viously don=E2=80=99t, but there=E2=80=99s no need to discuss any more.=C2= =A0 I won=E2=80=99t stop the document from processing as is.

<= font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.

--000000000000092b2d057be6786d--

On Nov 19, 2018, at 1:44 PM, David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com> wrote:

HI = Tony:
 
Re: = draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm=E2=80=A6. 
 
My draft = falls under the =E2=80=9Cbushy=E2=80=9D class of solutions,  to = borrow your terminology. 
 
So mapping to your datapoints and = translating what I presented in Bangkok to actual numbers:
 
Graph   =    Fault free      Single = Fault    Replication     = Receipt   
Diameter =        Worst = case       = Degree          Degree
Diameter          =                   =   
K4,17      2         =       = 3            &= nbsp;  = 17            =   2
K4,40      2         =       = 3            &= nbsp;  = 40            =   2
K8,80      2         =       = 3            &= nbsp;  = 80            =   2
K8,200     2           =     = 3            &= nbsp;  = 200            = ; 2
K16,200    2           =     = 3            &= nbsp;  = 200            = ; 2
K20,400    2           =     = 3            &= nbsp;  = 400            = ; 2
K40,800    2           =     = 3            &= nbsp;  = 800            = ; 2
 
Worst case occurs when an inter node link fails, as the LSA = from one end of the link needs to loop back via the other root to the = node at the other end of the failed link.
 
Rgds
Dave
 
From: Lsr= <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of tony.li@tony.li
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 = 10:29 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] On flooding, = diameter, and degree
 
 
Hi all,
 
I=E2=80=99d like to expound a bit more on a point that I made = at the mike in Bangkok.
 
The figures of merit for a flooding algorithm are the = resulting diameter of the flooding topology and the maximum degree of = the nodes in the topology.
 
The diameter is important because it says how many hops an = link state update will have to traverse before it covers the topology. = This dictates what the convergence time of the network will be.
 
The degree is important because it is = the measure of the amount of replication that a node will have to do = during flooding, and, more importantly, it is also a bound on the number = of times that a node can receive replicas of the same update.  If = the degree is too high, then the node can be overwhelmed by an influx of = flooding, resulting in instability.
 
For a flooding algorithm to be seriously considered, it is = important to characterize these results and understand how they grow = under scale.  In particular, I=E2=80=99m concerned about tree based = algorithms because they typically have a large diameter because the tree = is tall and spindly, or they end up with a large degree, because the = tree is quite bushy.
 
I would very much like to see candidate algorithms present = how they perform.
 
Here=E2=80=99s a few data points from our algorithm = simulations, just for comparison:
 
Graph      Diameter       =  Degree                 =       
K4,17      4   =             10
K4,40      4         =       23
K8,80      4   =             22
K8,200     4           =     53
K16,200    6   =             28
K20,400    5           =     45
K40,800    6   =             43
 
Thanks,
Tony