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From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IETF 105 LSR Working Group Meeting Minutes
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IETF 105 LSR Working Group Meeting Minutes
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IETF 105 LSR Working Group Meeting Minutes
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From: tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>
To: ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>,  Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> (YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol) to Proposed Standard
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> (YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol) to Proposed Standard
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I have been looking some more at this I-D and have some more doubts and
queries.

s.2.2
OLD
   The area and area/interface containers respectively define the OSPF
   configuration and operational state for OSPF areas and interfaces.

NEW
   The area and area/interface containers define the OSPF
   configuration and operational state for OSPF areas and interfaces
respectively.

The current text suggests area corresponds to configuration and
area/interface to operational state!

OLD
       "WG Web:   <http://datatracker.ietf.org/group/lsr/>
NEW
       "WG Web:   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/lsr/>


I am puzzled by the use of derived-from...

      container router {
         when "derived-from-or-self(../../header/type, "
             + "'ospf:ospfv2-router-lsa')" {
why is this derived-from-or-self when I can see nothing derived from the
base type?

       container network {
         when "derived-from-or-self(../../header/type, "
             + "'ospfv2-network-lsa')" {
ditto

       container summary {
         when "derived-from(../../header/type, "
            + "'ospfv2-summary-lsa-type')" {
why is this not derived-from-or-self when there are derivations from the
base type?

         when "derived-from(../../header/type, "
            + "'ospfv2-external-lsa-type')" {
           description
             "Only applies to AS-external LSAs and NSSA LSAs.";
Yes, since they are derived-from external-lsa but external-lsa per se
will be excluded which I assume is intended


     identity operation-mode { description  "OSPF operation mode.";
I cannot see any explanation of where this is used or what it is

router capabilities (RFC7770) appears in the YANG but is not itself a
feature; is there an assumption that all current routers will support
RFC7770?

lsa-id
sometimes dotted-quad, sometimes uint32, sometimes both; why?

     grouping ospfv2-lsa {
...
       container header {
         must "(derived-from(type, "
...
           description
             "Opaque type and ID only apply to Opaque LSAs.";
The must and the description match but why are they part of container
header and  not part of  the leaves?

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "tom petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 5:30 PM

I think that this could do with a few tweaks.

RFC 7884 is in the YANG module but not in the I-D references nor in the
body of the I-D.

The names of the TLV are not quite the same as in IANA and since new TLV
are not regarded as updates to RFC7770, then precision is called for in
order to find them with confidence via IANA

I cannot find router-address-tlv in IANA nor is there a YANG reference
clause and since there was some confusion over router-id in 2018, this
is one I want to check against its RFC, whatever that is.

The RPC can disrupt routing; elsewhere I have seen such actions limited
by a default
nacm:deny all
so users have to be positively configured to invoke the RPC.

I am unclear about rpc clear-neighbor.  Yes, it clears the adjacency but
what then?  Is it held down, allowed to come back up or what?

rpc or action?  I have yet to work out the pros and cons of each but was
rather expecting action as opposed to rpc for these.

leaf cost {type uint16
mostly have a range, but some do not; should they?

 typedef ospf-metric { type uint32 {  range "0 .. 16777215";
but
 leaf cost { type ospf-metric {  range "0..16777214";
looks odd; if intended, I suggest adding a note of explanation

some leaf metric are type ospf-metric others are type uint16; again
looks odd (but may be intended)

references to bfd-yang are not consistent
 RFC YYYY - YANG Data Model for Bidirectional
         Forwarding Detection (BFD).
 draft-ietf-bfd-yang-xx.txt:
     YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)";
I think the former clearer

I notice that many of the YANG enumeration have numeric values, others
do not, which makes me curious; not wrong but since YANG does not put
them on the wire, I think that having no numeric value is commoner

With priority
e.g.  list unreserved-bandwidth {
     leaf priority {
which is high and which is low?

Likewise with boolean e.g.
           leaf best { type boolean; description
               "Indicates if the alternate is the preferred.";
does true mean the alternate is preferred?

This I-D is big - 125pp - and I will not finish reviewing it by July
17th but expect to do so some time later in the month - I will post
again when I have.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "The IESG" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: "IETF-Announce" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <lsr@ietf.org>; "Stephane Litkowski"
<stephane.litkowski@orange.com>; <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>;
<lsr-chairs@ietf.org>; <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2019 5:55 PM
Subject: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> (YANG Data Model
for OSPF Protocol) to Proposed Standard


>
> The IESG has received a request from the Link State Routing WG (lsr)
to
> consider the following document: - 'YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol'
>   <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> as Proposed Standard
>
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final
> comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-07-17. Exceptionally, comments may
be
> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of
> the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
> Abstract
>
>
>    This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to
configure
>    and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
>    7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
>    (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.
>
>
>
>
> The file can be obtained via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/ballot/
>
>
> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
>
>
> The document contains these normative downward references.
> See RFC 3967 for additional information:
>     rfc4973: OSPF-xTE: Experimental Extension to OSPF for Traffic
Engineering (Experimental - Independent Submission Editor stream)
>     rfc1765: OSPF Database Overflow (Experimental - IETF stream)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


From nobody Thu Aug  1 13:46:51 2019
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 16:48:44 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Albert Bloomberg <afu14@bloomberg.net>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, Albert F <albert.f168@gmail.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
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References: <5D3A0EB4029103460087056A_0_2148724@msclnypmsgsv03> <01c901d54326$80a67af0$81f370d0$@ndzh.com> <DM5PR11MB202727A18322CE10B30D93F2C1C10@DM5PR11MB2027.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAEaWqmokZiFUVYr2Wcnk8hK38xZyL918RnBmrKaiPjh213hS=A@mail.gmail.com> <82732FCE-F604-4501-AED0-EE35E86A72B8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmW4ArDmej-U0Mad+qmawx-D8wcvv836Xjjo6PB8tNLEkg@mail.gmail.com> <BYAPR11MB36380DEC34EF63CE660D4E07C1C20@BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] draft-merciaz-idr-bgp-bfd-strict-mode
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Les,

On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 12:23:05AM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> I have a related question:
> 
> In the case where the BGP neighbor is multiple hops away, what benefit does BFD dampening provide?
> (Note that I am assuming that there likely would be single hop BFD sessions used by the IGPs (for example) along the path to the BGP neighbor and expecting that BFD dampening would be use for the single hop sessions when appropriate.)

Multihop eBGP is an example case.  There may be no "IGP" between the two
routers.

-- Jeff


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Dear authors:

I just finished reading this document.  Thank you for your work on it.

Why was it decided to create a bis document and not just an Update to
rfc5306?  Either way works for me, I'm just curious.

Knowing that the change in this document, with respect to rfc5306, is new
functionality, I tried very hard to not make comments about the unchanged
text, I really did.  However, there are a couple of significant items that
I *have* to comment on (please see in-line)...mostly related to lack of
clarity, or opportunities that we should take to improve.  In general, I
think the text could use a bit more clarity, but I won't insist on it to
avoid further changes.

The result of the elimination of =C2=A72 (Conventions Used in This Document=
) is
that explanations of what restart/restarting and start/starting mean were
removed. I think those helped frame the expectations of the operation.  In
the current document, there is no formal definition of those terms.  I
strongly believe that the text should be restored, perhaps at the end of
the Overview.

I will wait until the major items (in-line) are addressed before I start
the IETF Last Call.

Thanks!!

Alvaro.

[Line numbers from idnits.]


...
11 Abstract
...
18   This document additionally describes a mechansim for a router to
19   signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initiate a restart while
20   maintaining forwarding plane state.  This allows the neighbors to
21   maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also
22   allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies down in the event of
23   other topology changes.

[nit] s/mechansim/mechanism


...
100 1.  Overview
...
158   It is assumed that the three-way handshake [RFC5303] is being used on
159   Point-to-Point circuits.

[major] If only assumed, will the mechanism work if 3-way handshake is not
used?  Why it is not mandated?

161 2.  Approach

163 2.1.  Timers
...
171   An instance of the timer T1 is maintained per interface, and
172   indicates the time after which an unacknowledged (re)start attempt
173   will be repeated.  A typical value might be 3 seconds.

[minor] s/A typical value might be 3 seconds./A typical value is 3 seconds.

175   An instance of the timer T2 is maintained for each LSP database
176   (LSPDB) present in the system, i.e., for a Level 1/2 system, there
177   will be an instance of the timer T2 for Level 1 and an instance for
178   Level 2.  This is the maximum time that the system will wait for
179   LSPDB synchronization.  A typical value might be 60 seconds.

[minor] s/A typical value might be 60 seconds./A typical value is 60
seconds.

181   A single instance of the timer T3 is maintained for the entire
182   system.  It indicates the time after which the router will declare
183   that it has failed to achieve database synchronization (by setting
184   the overload bit in its own LSP).  This is initialized to 65535
185   seconds, but is set to the minimum of the remaining times of received
186   IS-IS Hellos (IIHs) containing a restart TLV with the Restart
187   Acknowledgement (RA) set and an indication that the neighbor has an
188   adjacency in the "UP" state to the restarting router.

[nit] I think a comma would help in differentiating the two things in the
last sentence:  s/and/, and

[major] Maybe it's just me, but I don't know what the "the remaining times
of...an indication that the neighbor has an adjacency in the "UP" state to
the restarting router" is.  Please clarify.

190   NOTE: The timer T3 is only used by a restarting router.

192 2.2.  Restart TLV
...
200 Type 211

202      Length: Number of octets in the Value field (1 to (3 + ID Length))
203      Value

[minor] s/Length:...(1 to (3 + ID Length))/Length:...(1 or (3 + ID Length))

[nit] Add a line before "Value".

205                                       No. of octets
206        +-----------------------+
207        |   Flags               |     1
208        +-----------------------+
209        | Remaining Time        |     2
210        +-----------------------+
211        | Restarting Neighbor ID|     ID Length
212        +-----------------------+

214    Flags (1 octet)

216         0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7
217        +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
218        |Reserved|PA|PR|SA|RA|RR|
219        +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+

[minor] Do you intend for IANA to assign the remaining bits?

221        RR - Restart Request
222        RA - Restart Acknowledgement
223        SA - Suppress adjacency advertisement
224        PR - Restart is planned
225        PA - Planned restart acknowledgement

[major] The functionality in this document (old and new) depends on a
single bit being set.  What should a receiver do if more than one bit is
set?  Are there valid combinations of multiple bits?

227   (Note: Remaining fields are )

[nit] Leftover text...


...
245        Note: Implementations based on earlier drafts of RFC 5306
246        may not include this field in the TLV when the RA bit is set.
247        In this case, a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN circuit
248        SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the local
249        system.

[major] I think it is time we stop catering to old/non-compliant
implementations.  The last time that a draft didn't include the System ID
was draft-ietf-isis-restart-03 in March 2003: more than 15 years ago!!


...
360 2.2.3.  Use of PR and PA Bits
...
376   a.  if this is the first IIH with the PR bit set that this system has
377       received associated with this adjacency, then the adjacency is
378       marked as being in "Planned Restart state" and the adjacency
379       holding time is refreshed -- otherwise, the holding time is not
380       refreshed.  The holding time SHOULD be set to the "remaining
381       time" specified in the received IIH with PR set.  The "remaining
382       time" transmitted according to (b) below MUST reflect the actual
383       time after which the adjacency will now expire.  Receipt of a
384       normal IIH with the PR bit reset will clear the "Planned Restart
385       mode" state and cause the receiving router to set the adjacency
386       hold time to the locally configured value.  This procedure allows
387       the router planning a restart to cause the neighbor to maintain
388       the adjacency long enough for restart to successfully complete.
389       Whether or not an adjacency is marked as being in "Planned
390       Restart mode" has no effect on adjacency state transitions.

[minor] Is it "Planned Restart state" or "Planned Restart mode" state?

392   b.  immediately (i.e., without waiting for any currently running
393       timer interval to expire, but with a small random delay of a few
394       tens of milliseconds on LANs to avoid "storms") transmit over the
395       corresponding interface an IIH including the restart TLV with the
396       PR bit clear and the PA bit set.  The "Remaining Time" MUST be
397       set to the current time (in seconds) before the holding timer on
398       this adjacency is due to expire.  If the corresponding interface
399       is a LAN interface, then the Restarting Neighbor System ID SHOULD
400       be set to the System ID of the router from which the IIH with the
401       PR bit set was received.  This is required to correctly associate
402       the acknowledgement and holding time in the case where multiple
403       systems on a LAN are planning a restart at approximately the same
404       time.

[major] "System ID SHOULD be set to the System ID of the router from which
the...PR bit set was received.  This is required to correctly associate the
acknowledgement...where multiple systems on a LAN are planning a restart at
approximately the same time."  IOW, if the System ID is not set correctly,
then the sender of the IIH+PR won't necessarily know the reply is to it...
When is it ok to not set the System ID that way?  IOW, why is MUST not
used?  [BTW, I know this is the same text as in 2.2.1...this comment
applies there too.]


...
428   While the adjacency is in planned restart state the following actions
429   MAY be taken:

[major] The steps below are optional (MAY)...that is ok.  (a) talks about a
compromised ability to flood updates on a LAN is adjacencies are not reset,
which sound very serious to me.  What are the considerations for an
implementation/deployment to decide using these optional actions?  Should
they be used on LANs, but not necessarily in other link types (just as an
example)?

[minor] The actions below are independent of each other, right?  It may be
worth mentioning that.

431   a.  If additional topology changes occur, the adjacency which is in
432       planned restart state MAY be brought down even though the hold
433       time has not yet expired.  Given that the neighbor which has
434       signaled a planned restart is not expected to update its
435       forwarding plane in response to signaling of the topology changes
436       (since it is restarting) traffic which transits that node is at
437       risk of being improperly forwarded.  On a LAN circuit, if the
438       router in planned restart state is the DIS at any supported
439       level, the adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down whenever any LSP
440       update is either generated or received so as to trigger a new DIS
441       election.  Failure to do so will compromise the reliability of
442       the Update Process on that circuit.  What other criteria are used
443       to determine what topology changes will trigger bringing the
444       adjacency down is a local implementation decision.

[nit] s/received so as to/received, so as to

[major] "adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down...Failure to do so will
compromise the reliability of the Update Process on that circuit."  When is
it ok to not bring these adjacencies down?  If the operator already decided
to deploy these optional steps, why wouldn't the adjacencies be always
brought down?  IOW, why is MUST not used?

446   b.  If a BFD session to the neighbor which signals a planned restart
447       is in the UP state and subsequently goes DOWN, the event MAY be
448       ignored since it is possible this is an expected side effect of
449       the restart.  Use of the Control Plane Independent state as
450       signalled in BFD control packets [RFC5880] SHOULD be considered
451       in the decision to ignore a BFD Session DOWN event

[nit] Move the reference to rfc5880 to the first mention of BFD.

[nit] s/Session DOWN event/Session DOWN event.


...
467 2.3.1.  Adjacency Reacquisition during Restart

469   The restarting router explicitly notifies its neighbor that the
470   adjacency is being reacquired, and hence that it SHOULD NOT
471   reinitialize the adjacency.  This is achieved by setting the RR bit
472   in the restart TLV.  When the neighbor of a restarting router
473   receives an IIH with the restart TLV having the RR bit set, if there
474   exists on this interface an adjacency in state "UP" with the same
475   System ID, and in the case of a LAN circuit, with the same source LAN
476   address, then the procedures described in Section 3.2.1 are followed.

[minor] s/3.2.1/2.2.1


...
492   On a LAN circuit, the LAN-ID assigned to the circuit SHOULD be the
493   same as that used prior to the restart.  In particular, for any
494   circuits for which the restarting router was previously DIS, the use
495   of a different LAN-ID would necessitate the generation of a new set
496   of pseudonode LSPs, and corresponding changes in all the LSPs
497   referencing them from other routers on the LAN.  By preserving the
498   LAN-ID across the restart, this churn can be prevented.  To enable a
499   restarting router to learn the LAN-ID used prior to restart, the LAN-
500   ID specified in an IIH with RR set MUST be ignored.

[major] "the LAN-ID assigned to the circuit SHOULD be the same as that used
prior to the restart...churn can be prevented."  Are there cases when
(without knowledge of other changes) the LAN-ID would be better off being
something else?  IOW, why would a MUST not fit here?


...
516   On a Point-to-Point link, receipt of an IIH not containing the
517   restart TLV is also treated as an acknowledgement, since it indicates
518   that the neighbor is not restart capable.  However, since no CSNP is
519   guaranteed to be received over this interface, the timer T1 is
520   cancelled immediately without waiting for a complete set of CSNPs.
521   Synchronization may therefore be deemed complete even though there
522   are some LSPs which are held (only) by this neighbor (see
523   Section 3.4).  In this case, we also want to be certain that the
524   neighbor will reinitialize the adjacency in order to guarantee that
525   the SRMflags have been set on its database, thus ensuring eventual
526   LSPDB synchronization.  This is guaranteed to happen except in the
527   case where the Adjacency Three-Way State in the received IIH is "UP"
528   and the Neighbor Extended Local Circuit ID matches the extended local
529   circuit ID assigned by the restarting router.  In this case, the
530   restarting router MUST force the adjacency to reinitialize by setting
531   the local Adjacency Three-Way State to "DOWN" and sending a normal
532   IIH.

[minor] s/3.4/2.4


...
567   If an interface is active, but does not have any neighboring router
568   reachable over that interface, the timer T1 would never be cancelled,
569   and according to Section 3.4.1.1, the SPF would never be run.
570   Therefore, timer T1 is cancelled after some predetermined number of
571   expirations (which MAY be 1).

[minor] s/3.4.1.1/2.4.1.1

573 2.3.2.  Adjacency Acquisition during Start
...
592   Upon receipt of an IIH with the SA bit set, the behavior described in
593   Section 3.2.2 is followed.

[minor] s/3.2.2/2.2.2


...
642   When the T2 timer(s) are cancelled or expire, transmission of
643   "normal" IIHs (with RR, RA, and SA bits clear) will begin.

[minor] A "normal" IIH is mentioned before, but this is the first time that
it is described ("with RR, RA, and SA bits clear").  Shouldn't this
definition be expanded to include the PR/PA bits?  Also, it would be nice
if the term was defined earlier in the text: move the parenthesis to the
first mention.


...
659 2.4.  Database Synchronization
...
670   When (re)starting, a router starts an instance of timer T2 for each
671   LSPDB as described in Section 3.3.1 or Section 3.3.2.  In addition to
672   normal processing of the CSNPs, the set of LSPIDs contained in the
673   first complete set of CSNPs received over each interface is recorded,
674   together with their remaining lifetime.  In the case of a LAN
675   interface, a complete set of CSNPs MUST consist of CSNPs received
676   from neighbors that are not restarting.  If there are multiple
677   interfaces on the (re)starting router, the recorded set of LSPIDs is
678   the union of those received over each interface.  LSPs with a
679   remaining lifetime of zero are NOT so recorded.

[minor] s/Section 3.3.1 or Section 3.3.2/Section 2.3.1 or Section 2.3.2


...
710 2.4.1.1.  Restarting
...
766   Once the other level's SPF has run and any inter-level propagation
767   has been resolved, the router's own LSPs can be generated and
768   flooded.  Any own LSPs that were previously ignored, but that are not
769   part of the current set of own LSPs (including pseudonodes), MUST
770   then be purged.  Note that it is possible that a Designated Router
771   change may have taken place, and consequently the router SHOULD purge
772   those pseudonode LSPs that it previously owned, but that are now no
773   longer part of its set of pseudonode LSPs.

[major] This is a Normative conflict: "...(including pseudonodes), MUST
then be purged...the router SHOULD purge those pseudonode LSPs"   How is it
possible to always (MUST) purge the LSPs, but not always (SHOULD)?  Perhaps
s/SHOULD/MUST


...
793 2.4.1.2.  Starting
...
815   To avoid the possible formation of temporary blackholes, the starting
816   router sets the SA bit in the restart TLV (as described in
817   Section 3.3.2) in all IIHs that it sends.

[minor] s/3.3.2/2.3.2


...
967 4.  IANA Considerations

969   This document defines the following IS-IS TLV that is listed in the
970   IS-IS TLV codepoint registry:

972      Type        Description                            IIH   LSP   SNP
973      ----        -----------------------------------    ---   ---   ---
974      211         Restart TLV                              y     n     n

[major] You're missing the Purge column.

[major] This section should also ask IANA to change the reference from
rfc5306 to this document.

976 5.  Security Considerations
...
1000   If an SA bit is set in a false IIH, this could cause suppression of
1001   the advertisement of an IS neighbor, which could either continue for
1002   an indefinite period or occur intermittently with the result being a
1003   possible loss of reachability to some destinations in the network
1004   and/or increased frequency of LSP flooding and SPF calculation.

[major] Please add similar considerations as above for the new bits.

--000000000000149c50058f246645
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px"><div style=3D"margin:0px">Dear authors:</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I just finished =
reading this document.=C2=A0 Thank you for your work on it.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Why was it decided to c=
reate a bis document and not just an Update to rfc5306?=C2=A0 Either way wo=
rks for me, I&#39;m just curious.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">Knowing that the change in this document, with re=
spect to rfc5306, is new functionality, I tried very hard to not make comme=
nts about the unchanged text, I really did.=C2=A0 However, there are a coup=
le of significant items that I *have* to comment on (please see in-line)...=
mostly related to lack of clarity, or opportunities that we should take to =
improve.=C2=A0 In general, I think the text could use a bit more clarity, b=
ut I won&#39;t insist on it to avoid further changes.</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">The result of the elimination=
 of =C2=A72 (Conventions Used in This Document) is that explanations of wha=
t restart/restarting and start/starting mean were removed. I think those he=
lped frame the expectations of the operation.=C2=A0 In the current document=
, there is no formal definition of those terms.=C2=A0 I strongly believe th=
at the text should be restored, perhaps at the end of the Overview.</div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">I will wait unt=
il the major items (in-line) are addressed before I start the IETF Last Cal=
l.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Thank=
s!!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">Alva=
ro.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[Lin=
e numbers from idnits.]</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">11<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan>Abstract</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">18<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 This document additionally describes a mechansim for a router to</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">19<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-sp=
ace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initi=
ate a restart while</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">20<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 maintaining forwarding p=
lane state.=C2=A0 This allows the neighbors to</div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">21<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">22<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies d=
own in the event of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">23<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 other topology changes.<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/=
mechansim/mechanism</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">100<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
>1.=C2=A0 Overview</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">158<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</sp=
an> =C2=A0 It is assumed that the three-way handshake [RFC5303] is being us=
ed on</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">159<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Point-to-Point circuits.</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] If only assu=
med, will the mechanism work if 3-way handshake is not used?=C2=A0 Why it i=
s not mandated?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">161<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
>2.=C2=A0 Approach</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">163<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan>2.1.=C2=A0 Timers</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">171<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 An instance of the timer T1 is maintained per interface, and<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">172<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 indicates the time after which an unacknowl=
edged (re)start attempt</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">173<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 will be repeated.=
=C2=A0 A typical value might be 3 seconds.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/A typical value might be 3 sec=
onds./A typical value is 3 seconds.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">175<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 An instance of the timer T2 is maintained for =
each LSP database</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">176<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 (LSPDB) present in the sy=
stem, i.e., for a Level 1/2 system, there</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">17=
7<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 w=
ill be an instance of the timer T2 for Level 1 and an instance for</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">178<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Level 2.=C2=A0 This is the maximum time that the sy=
stem will wait for</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">179<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 LSPDB synchronization.=
=C2=A0 A typical value might be 60 seconds.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/A typical value might be 60 s=
econds./A typical value is 60 seconds.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">181<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 A single instance of the timer T3 is mainta=
ined for the entire</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">182<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 system.=C2=A0 It indica=
tes the time after which the router will declare</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">183<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 that it has failed to achieve database synchronization (by setting</=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px">184<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"wh=
ite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the overload bit in its own LSP).=C2=A0 This=
 is initialized to 65535</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">185<span class=3D"A=
pple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 seconds, but is se=
t to the minimum of the remaining times of received</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">186<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
> =C2=A0 IS-IS Hellos (IIHs) containing a restart TLV with the Restart</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">187<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Acknowledgement (RA) set and an indication that=
 the neighbor has an</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">188<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 adjacency in the &quot=
;UP&quot; state to the restarting router.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><b=
r></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] I think a comma would help in diffe=
rentiating the two things in the last sentence: =C2=A0s/and/, and</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] Maybe it&=
#39;s just me, but I don&#39;t know what the &quot;the remaining times of..=
.an indication that the neighbor has an adjacency in the &quot;UP&quot; sta=
te to the restarting router&quot; is.=C2=A0 Please clarify.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">190<span class=3D"Apple=
-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 NOTE: The timer T3 is =
only used by a restarting router.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">192<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span>2.2.=C2=A0 Restart TLV</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">..=
.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">200<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> Type 211</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">202<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Length: Number of octets in the V=
alue field (1 to (3 + ID Length))</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">203<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Value</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">[minor] s/Length:...(1 to (3 + ID Length))/Length:...(1 or (3 + ID Leng=
th))</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[ni=
t] Add a line before &quot;Value&quot;.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">205<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 No. of octets</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">206<span class=3D"A=
pple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0+-----------------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">207<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 Flags =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">208<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+------=
-----------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">209<span class=3D"Apple-t=
ab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Re=
maining Time =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">210<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-----------------------+</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">211<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Restarting Neighbor ID| =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 ID Length</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">212<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-----=
------------------+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">214<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</=
span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Flags (1 octet)</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">216<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 =C2=A01 =C2=A02 =C2=A03 =
=C2=A04 =C2=A05 =C2=A06 =C2=A07</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">217<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">218<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|Reserved|PA|PR|SA|RA|RR|</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">219<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] Do you intend for IANA to assign=
 the remaining bits?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">221<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RR - Restart Request</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">222<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0RA - Restart Acknowledgement</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">223<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SA - Suppress adjacency advertisement=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">224<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PR - Restart is planne=
d</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">225<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PA - Planned restart =
acknowledgement</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">[major] The functionality in this document (old and new) depends on=
 a single bit being set.=C2=A0 What should a receiver do if more than one b=
it is set?=C2=A0 Are there valid combinations of multiple bits?</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">227<span class=3D"A=
pple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 (Note: Remaining f=
ields are )</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">[nit] Leftover text...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">245<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note: Implementations based on earlier=
 drafts of RFC 5306</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">246<span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may=
 not include this field in the TLV when the RA bit is set.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">247<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In this case, a router that is expecti=
ng an RA on a LAN circuit</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">248<span class=3D"=
Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the local</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">249<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0system.</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] I think it is time we s=
top catering to old/non-compliant implementations.=C2=A0 The last time that=
 a draft didn&#39;t include the System ID was draft-ietf-isis-restart-03 in=
 March 2003: more than 15 years ago!!</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">360<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span>2.2.3.=C2=A0 Use of PR and PA Bits</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">376<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 a. =C2=A0if this is the first=
 IIH with the PR bit set that this system has</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
">377<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 received associated with this adjacency, then the adjacen=
cy is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">378<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 marked as being in &quo=
t;Planned Restart state&quot; and the adjacency</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">379<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 holding time is refreshed -- otherwise, the holding ti=
me is not</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">380<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 refreshed.=C2=A0 Th=
e holding time SHOULD be set to the &quot;remaining</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">381<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span=
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time&quot; specified in the received IIH with PR set=
.=C2=A0 The &quot;remaining</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">382<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 time&quot; transmitted according to (b) below MUST reflect the actual</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">383<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time after which the adjacency wi=
ll now expire.=C2=A0 Receipt of a</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">384<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 normal IIH with the PR bit reset will clear the &quot;Planned Restar=
t</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">385<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mode&quot; state and cause =
the receiving router to set the adjacency</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">38=
6<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 hold time to the locally configured value.=C2=A0 This procedu=
re allows</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">387<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the router planning=
 a restart to cause the neighbor to maintain</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>388<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the adjacency long enough for restart to successfully com=
plete.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">389<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" sty=
le=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether or not an adja=
cency is marked as being in &quot;Planned</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">39=
0<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Restart mode&quot; has no effect on adjacency state transitio=
ns.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[min=
or] Is it &quot;Planned Restart state&quot; or &quot;Planned Restart mode&q=
uot; state?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">392<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 b. =C2=A0immediately (i.e., without waiting for any currently runnin=
g</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">393<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 timer interval to expire, b=
ut with a small random delay of a few</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">394<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 tens of milliseconds on LANs to avoid &quot;storms&quot;) transm=
it over the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">395<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span=
" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 corresponding int=
erface an IIH including the restart TLV with the</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">396<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PR bit clear and the PA bit set.=C2=A0 The &quot;Remai=
ning Time&quot; MUST be</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">397<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 set t=
o the current time (in seconds) before the holding timer on</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">398<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this adjacency is due to expire.=C2=A0 If th=
e corresponding interface</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">399<span class=3D"=
Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is =
a LAN interface, then the Restarting Neighbor System ID SHOULD</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">400<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be set to the System ID of the router fro=
m which the IIH with the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">401<span class=3D"A=
pple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PR b=
it set was received.=C2=A0 This is required to correctly associate</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">402<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the acknowledgement and holding time =
in the case where multiple</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">403<span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sy=
stems on a LAN are planning a restart at approximately the same</div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px">404<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:=
pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;System ID SHOULD be set to t=
he System ID of the router from which the...PR bit set was received.=C2=A0 =
This is required to correctly associate the acknowledgement...where multipl=
e systems on a LAN are planning a restart at approximately the same time.&q=
uot; =C2=A0IOW, if the System ID is not set correctly, then the sender of t=
he IIH+PR won&#39;t necessarily know the reply is to it...=C2=A0 When is it=
 ok to not set the System ID that way?=C2=A0 IOW, why is MUST not used? =C2=
=A0[BTW, I know this is the same text as in 2.2.1...this comment applies th=
ere too.]</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">42=
8<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 W=
hile the adjacency is in planned restart state the following actions</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">429<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 MAY be taken:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] The steps below are optional (MAY).=
..that is ok. =C2=A0(a) talks about a compromised ability to flood updates =
on a LAN is adjacencies are not reset, which sound very serious to me.=C2=
=A0 What are the considerations for an implementation/deployment to decide =
using these optional actions?=C2=A0 Should they be used on LANs, but not ne=
cessarily in other link types (just as an example)?</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] The actions below are i=
ndependent of each other, right?=C2=A0 It may be worth mentioning that.</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">431<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 a.=C2=A0 I=
f additional topology changes occur, the adjacency which is in</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">432<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:p=
re">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 planned restart state MAY be brought down=
 even though the hold</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">433<span class=3D"Appl=
e-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time ha=
s not yet expired.=C2=A0 Given that the neighbor which has</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">434<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 signaled a planned restart is not expected t=
o update its</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">435<span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 forwarding plane=
 in response to signaling of the topology changes</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">436<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (since it is restarting) traffic which transits that n=
ode is at</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">437<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 risk of being impro=
perly forwarded.=C2=A0 On a LAN circuit, if the</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">438<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 router in planned restart state is the DIS at any supp=
orted</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">439<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 level, the adjacency(ie=
s) SHOULD be brought down whenever any LSP</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">4=
40<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 update is either generated or received so as to trigger a new=
 DIS</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">441<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 election.=C2=A0 Failure =
to do so will compromise the reliability of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
442<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Update Process on that circuit.=C2=A0 What other criteri=
a are used</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">443<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to determine what =
topology changes will trigger bringing the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">4=
44<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 adjacency down is a local implementation decision.</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/received s=
o as to/received, so as to</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down...Fa=
ilure to do so will compromise the reliability of the Update Process on tha=
t circuit.&quot; =C2=A0When is it ok to not bring these adjacencies down?=
=C2=A0 If the operator already decided to deploy these optional steps, why =
wouldn&#39;t the adjacencies be always brought down?=C2=A0 IOW, why is MUST=
 not used?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0p=
x">446<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 b.=C2=A0 If a BFD session to the neighbor which signals a planned resta=
rt</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">447<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is in the UP state and s=
ubsequently goes DOWN, the event MAY be</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">448<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 ignored since it is possible this is an expected side effect of<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px">449<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"w=
hite-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the restart.=C2=A0 Use of the=
 Control Plane Independent state as</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">450<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 signalled in BFD control packets [RFC5880] SHOULD be considered</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">451<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the decision to ignore a BFD S=
ession DOWN event</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">[nit] Move the reference to rfc5880 to the first mention of BFD.<=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[nit] s/=
Session DOWN event/Session DOWN event.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">467<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span>2.3.1.=C2=A0 Adjacency Reacquisition during Restart</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">469<span cl=
ass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 The restar=
ting router explicitly notifies its neighbor that the</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px">470<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</sp=
an> =C2=A0 adjacency is being reacquired, and hence that it SHOULD NOT</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">471<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 reinitialize the adjacency.=C2=A0 This is achie=
ved by setting the RR bit</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">472<span class=3D"=
Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 in the restart TL=
V.=C2=A0 When the neighbor of a restarting router</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">473<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 receives an IIH with the restart TLV having the RR bit set, if there=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">474<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"=
white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 exists on this interface an adjacency in s=
tate &quot;UP&quot; with the same</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">475<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 System ID=
, and in the case of a LAN circuit, with the same source LAN</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">476<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 address, then the procedures described in Section 3.2.1 a=
re followed.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">[minor] s/3.2.1/2.2.1</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">492<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 On a LAN circuit, the LAN-ID assigned to the circuit SHOUL=
D be the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">493<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" s=
tyle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 same as that used prior to the res=
tart.=C2=A0 In particular, for any</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">494<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 circuits=
 for which the restarting router was previously DIS, the use</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">495<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 of a different LAN-ID would necessitate the generation of=
 a new set</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">496<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 of pseudonode LSPs, and correspo=
nding changes in all the LSPs</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">497<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 referencing t=
hem from other routers on the LAN.=C2=A0 By preserving the</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">498<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 LAN-ID across the restart, this churn can be prevented.=C2=
=A0 To enable a</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">499<span class=3D"Apple-tab-=
span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 restarting router to learn =
the LAN-ID used prior to restart, the LAN-</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">5=
00<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 =
ID specified in an IIH with RR set MUST be ignored.</div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] &quot;the LAN-ID assign=
ed to the circuit SHOULD be the same as that used prior to the restart...ch=
urn can be prevented.&quot; =C2=A0Are there cases when (without knowledge o=
f other changes) the LAN-ID would be better off being something else?=C2=A0=
 IOW, why would a MUST not fit here?</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><=
div style=3D"margin:0px">516<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-s=
pace:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 On a Point-to-Point link, receipt of an IIH not c=
ontaining the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">517<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 restart TLV is also treated a=
s an acknowledgement, since it indicates</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">518=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 th=
at the neighbor is not restart capable.=C2=A0 However, since no CSNP is</di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px">519<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"whit=
e-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 guaranteed to be received over this interface,=
 the timer T1 is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">520<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 cancelled immediately with=
out waiting for a complete set of CSNPs.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">521=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Sy=
nchronization may therefore be deemed complete even though there</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">522<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 are some LSPs which are held (only) by this neighbor =
(see</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">523<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Section 3.4).=C2=A0 In this case, we a=
lso want to be certain that the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">524<span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 neighbor wi=
ll reinitialize the adjacency in order to guarantee that</div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">525<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 the SRMflags have been set on its database, thus ensuring eve=
ntual</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">526<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" styl=
e=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 LSPDB synchronization.=C2=A0 This is =
guaranteed to happen except in the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">527<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 case whe=
re the Adjacency Three-Way State in the received IIH is &quot;UP&quot;</div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px">528<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white=
-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 and the Neighbor Extended Local Circuit ID matc=
hes the extended local</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">529<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 circuit ID assigned =
by the restarting router.=C2=A0 In this case, the</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">530<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 restarting router MUST force the adjacency to reinitialize by settin=
g</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">531<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D=
"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the local Adjacency Three-Way State to &q=
uot;DOWN&quot; and sending a normal</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">532<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 IIH.</d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/=
3.4/2.4</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">=
<br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">567<=
span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 If =
an interface is active, but does not have any neighboring router</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">568<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 reachable over that interface, the timer T1 would nev=
er be cancelled,</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">569<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 and according to Section 3=
.4.1.1, the SPF would never be run.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">570<span=
 class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Therefo=
re, timer T1 is cancelled after some predetermined number of</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">571<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre=
">	</span> =C2=A0 expirations (which MAY be 1).</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/<a href=3D"http://3.4.1.1=
/2.4.1.1">3.4.1.1/2.4.1.1</a></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">573<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span>2.3.2.=C2=A0 Adjacency Acquisition during Start</div><div st=
yle=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">592<span class=3D"App=
le-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Upon receipt of an I=
IH with the SA bit set, the behavior described in</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px">593<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 Section 3.2.2 is followed.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/3.2.2/2.2.2</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
>...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">642<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 When the T2 timer(s) are cancelled or =
expire, transmission of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">643<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 &quot;normal&quot; =
IIHs (with RR, RA, and SA bits clear) will begin.</div><div style=3D"margin=
:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] A &quot;normal&quot; IIH =
is mentioned before, but this is the first time that it is described (&quot=
;with RR, RA, and SA bits clear&quot;).=C2=A0 Shouldn&#39;t this definition=
 be expanded to include the PR/PA bits?=C2=A0 Also, it would be nice if the=
 term was defined earlier in the text: move the parenthesis to the first me=
ntion.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">659<s=
pan class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.4.=C2=A0 D=
atabase Synchronization</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">670<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 When (re)starting, a router starts an instance of timer T2=
 for each</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">671<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 LSPDB as described in Section 3.3=
.1 or Section 3.3.2.=C2=A0 In addition to</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">67=
2<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 n=
ormal processing of the CSNPs, the set of LSPIDs contained in the</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">673<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 first complete set of CSNPs received over each inter=
face is recorded,</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">674<span class=3D"Apple-ta=
b-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 together with their remai=
ning lifetime.=C2=A0 In the case of a LAN</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">67=
5<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 i=
nterface, a complete set of CSNPs MUST consist of CSNPs received</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">676<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 from neighbors that are not restarting.=C2=A0 If ther=
e are multiple</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">677<span class=3D"Apple-tab-s=
pan" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 interfaces on the (re)starti=
ng router, the recorded set of LSPIDs is</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">678=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 th=
e union of those received over each interface.=C2=A0 LSPs with a</div><div =
style=3D"margin:0px">679<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 remaining lifetime of zero are NOT so recorded.</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/Sec=
tion 3.3.1 or Section 3.3.2/Section 2.3.1 or Section 2.3.2</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">710<span class=3D"Apple-tab=
-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.4.1.1.=C2=A0 Restarting</div><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">766<span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Once the other l=
evel&#39;s SPF has run and any inter-level propagation</div><div style=3D"m=
argin:0px">767<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</s=
pan> =C2=A0 has been resolved, the router&#39;s own LSPs can be generated a=
nd</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">768<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 flooded.=C2=A0 Any own LSPs that were =
previously ignored, but that are not</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">769<spa=
n class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 part o=
f the current set of own LSPs (including pseudonodes), MUST</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">770<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"=
>	</span> =C2=A0 then be purged.=C2=A0 Note that it is possible that a Desi=
gnated Router</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">771<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 change may have taken place, =
and consequently the router SHOULD purge</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">772=
<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 th=
ose pseudonode LSPs that it previously owned, but that are now no</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">773<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 longer part of its set of pseudonode LSPs.</div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] This is a=
 Normative conflict: &quot;...(including pseudonodes), MUST then be purged.=
..the router SHOULD purge those pseudonode LSPs&quot; =C2=A0 How is it poss=
ible to always (MUST) purge the LSPs, but not always (SHOULD)?=C2=A0 Perhap=
s s/SHOULD/MUST</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">793<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>2.4=
.1.2.=C2=A0 Starting</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div><div style=3D"=
margin:0px">815<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</=
span> =C2=A0 To avoid the possible formation of temporary blackholes, the s=
tarting</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">816<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" st=
yle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 router sets the SA bit in the resta=
rt TLV (as described in</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">817<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 Section 3.3.2) in a=
ll IIHs that it sends.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px">[minor] s/3.3.2/2.3.2</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></=
div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">...</div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px">967<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-=
space:pre">	</span>4.=C2=A0 IANA Considerations</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">969<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" s=
tyle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 This document defines the followin=
g IS-IS TLV that is listed in the</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">970<span c=
lass=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 IS-IS TLV=
 codepoint registry:</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px">972<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	<=
/span> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Description =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IIH =C2=A0 LSP =C2=A0 SNP</div><div style=3D"margin:0px=
">973<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---- =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--------------------------=
--------- =C2=A0 =C2=A0--- =C2=A0 --- =C2=A0 ---</div><div style=3D"margin:=
0px">974<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0211 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Restart TLV =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0y =C2=A0 =C2=A0 n =C2=A0 =C2=A0 n</div><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] You&#39;re missing th=
e Purge column.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px">[major] This section should also ask IANA to change the reference f=
rom rfc5306 to this document.</div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px">976<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spac=
e:pre">	</span>5.=C2=A0 Security Considerations</div><div style=3D"margin:0=
px">...</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1000<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" s=
tyle=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 If an SA bit is set in a false IIH=
, this could cause suppression of</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1001<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 the adve=
rtisement of an IS neighbor, which could either continue for</div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px">1002<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pr=
e">	</span> =C2=A0 an indefinite period or occur intermittently with the re=
sult being a</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1003<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 possible loss of reachability=
 to some destinations in the network</div><div style=3D"margin:0px">1004<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =C2=A0 and/o=
r increased frequency of LSP flooding and SPF calculation.</div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div style=3D"margin:0px">[major] Please add simi=
lar considerations as above for the new bits.</div><div><br></div></div><di=
v class=3D"bloop_container"><div class=3D"bloop_frame">  </div></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
Thread-Index: AQHVSUrslUkXmsWrK0aNc/yn6CTKWqbnwqmA
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 16:05:50 +0000
Message-ID: <9B3FEAB8-A438-4203-87CF-C317B4D17118@cisco.com>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> (YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol) to Proposed Standard
Thread-Index: AQHVMPbyA7zpnYSMMEeoMtXRc7x4zKbq7eMA
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 13:35:12 +0000
Message-ID: <C9DA99E9-9D21-4F4C-AAD2-D8DD2D11D590@cisco.com>
References: <156208651736.23780.6260088684182501848.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00bb01d5334e$f5f16000$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <005901d54880$467e6540$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-yang-23.txt> (YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol) to Proposed Standard
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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alvara, Anton, Michael,

Thank you for the work done for this document.

Just curious about section 3: OSPFv2 routers send their IPv6 address(es) and
OSPFv3 routers send their IPv4 address(es). But, what happens when OSPFv3
routers are multi-topology ? Should they also send their IPv6 address(es)? Of
course, in this case, the issue fixed by your memo does not exist ;-) Probably
worth mentioning anyway that OSPFv3 multi-topology does not need this feature.

Regards,

-éric



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-25.txt
	Pages           : 127
	Date            : 2019-08-05

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
   7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
   (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-25
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-25

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-25


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
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Roni, thanks for your review. I entered a No Objection ballot.

Alissa


> On Jun 30, 2019, at 7:27 AM, Roni Even via Datatracker =
<noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Reviewer: Roni Even
> Review result: Ready
>=20
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
> like any other last call comments.
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> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-??
> Reviewer: Roni Even
> Review Date: 2019-06-30
> IETF LC End Date: 2019-07-11
> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
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> Summary: The document is ready for publication as a standard track RFC
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--0000000000009968b8058f70d5d2
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On August 5, 2019 at 8:52:19 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com) wrote:

With https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5838/, separate instances are
required for IPv4 and IPv6 topologies. With this enhancement, you'd only
need to advertise TE information in one of those instances.

Right.

I think there=E2=80=99s an opportunity to clarify; the text talks about OSP=
Fv2/IPv4
+ OSPFv3/IPv6: I think we could add a sentence or two (maybe at the start
of the Operation section) to clarify.

Thanks!!

Alvaro.

--0000000000009968b8058f70d5d2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">On August 5, 2019 at 8:52:19 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) (<a=
 href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</font></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div> <div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;l=
etter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!=
important">With<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5838/" style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word;word-break:break-word;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5838/</a><span style=3D=
"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align=
:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:=
0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">=
, separate instances are required for IPv4 and IPv6 topologies. With this e=
nhancement, you&#39;d only need to advertise TE information in one of those=
 instances.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span></font=
></div></span></blockquote></div><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Right.</font><=
/p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">I think there=E2=80=99s an opportunity to cl=
arify; the text talks about OSPFv2/IPv4 + OSPFv3/IPv6: I think we could add=
 a sentence or two (maybe at the start of the Operation section) to clarify=
.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Thanks!!</font></p><p><font face=3D=
"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></p><d=
iv><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></font>=
</div> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

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cc:ing lsr for input before progress. We have good overlap, but too be
sure, the list.

The draft cleared WGLC:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-04

In discussion of next steps, the following comments were made by Alvaro
which need to be addressed:

<alvaro>
- In general, idnits and the IESG likes it very much when the specific
phrase =E2=80=9Cthis document updates rfcxxx by=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D appears i=
n the Abstract and the
Introduction.  There=E2=80=99s some similar text there, but not exactly.   =
Just a
nit.

- There are no Security Considerations!!

- Use the rfc8174 template!

- "all routers SHOULD be provisioned with and signal the same BAR and IPA
values=E2=80=9D. When would you not do that?  Why is that not a MUST?

- =E2=80=9C...MUST treat the advertising BFR as incapable of supporting BIE=
R for
the sub-domain.  How incapable routers are handled is outside the scope of
this document.=E2=80=9D  That is a Normative contradiction?  How are router=
s
supposed to meet the MUST if they don=E2=80=99t know what to do?

- s/MUST also be clear/MUST also be specified
</alvaro>

Authors, please address these comments. Xiejingrong has volunteered to be
Document Shepherd, once cleared.

Thank you,
Shep
(chairs)

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>cc=
:ing lsr for input before progress. We have good overlap, but too be sure, =
the list.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The draft cleared WGLC:</div><div>=
<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-bier-bar-ipa-04">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bier-bar-ipa-04</=
a><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div>In discussion of next steps, th=
e following comments were made by Alvaro which need to be addressed:</div><=
div><br></div><div>&lt;alvaro&gt;</div><div><div class=3D"gmail-gs" style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;width:929px;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDr=
aft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><div class=3D"gmail-"><div id=3D"gmail-:1so=
" class=3D"gmail-ii gmail-gt" style=3D"margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div=
 id=3D"gmail-:1sp" class=3D"gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH gmail-msg-186372996456422=
9277"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964=
564229277gmail_signature">- In general, idnits and the IESG likes it very m=
uch when the specific phrase =E2=80=9Cthis document updates rfcxxx by=E2=80=
=A6=E2=80=9D appears in the Abstract and the Introduction.=C2=A0 There=E2=
=80=99s some similar text there, but not exactly. =C2=A0 Just a nit.</div><=
div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_signature"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_signature">- There are no Security=
 Considerations!!</div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_sign=
ature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_signature"=
>- Use the rfc8174 template!</div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-186372996456422927=
7gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail=
_signature">- &quot;all routers SHOULD be provisioned with and signal the s=
ame=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail-il">BAR</span>=C2=A0and IPA values=E2=80=9D. =
When would you not do that?=C2=A0 Why is that not a MUST?</div><div class=
=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_signature">- =E2=80=9C...MUST treat the adv=
ertising BFR as incapable of supporting=C2=A0<span class=3D"gmail-il">BIER<=
/span>=C2=A0for the sub-domain.=C2=A0 How incapable routers are handled is =
outside the scope of this document.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0That is a Normative cont=
radiction?=C2=A0 How are routers supposed to meet the MUST if they don=E2=
=80=99t know what to do?</div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gma=
il_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1863729964564229277gmail_sig=
nature">- s/MUST also be clear/MUST also be specified</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail-yj6qo"></div><div class=3D"gmail-adL"></div></div></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail-hi"></div></div></div></div><div>&lt;/alvaro&gt;</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Authors, please address these comments. Xiejingrong has volunteer=
ed to be Document Shepherd, once cleared.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank yo=
u,</div><div>Shep</div><div>(chairs)</div></div></div></div></div>

--0000000000005d8fae058f8c9f04--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26.txt
	Pages           : 127
	Date            : 2019-08-07

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
   7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
   (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF SR (Segment Routing) Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-09.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2019-08-07

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF Segment Routing.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as
   defined in RFC 7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore
   Architecture (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.


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Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

An easy item to address.  Per Section 5,  “Specifically, TE traffic may be
delivered to the wrong tail-end router, which could lead to suboptimal routing
or even traffic loops”, the impact could also include providing access to an
attacker.  Perhaps:

OLD:
Specifically, TE traffic may be delivered to the wrong tail-end router, which
could lead to suboptimal routing or even traffic loops.

NEW:
Specifically, TE traffic may be delivered to the wrong tail-end router, which
could lead to suboptimal routing; traffic loops; or expose the traffic to
attacker inspection or modification.





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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 4

Do the two steps listed have to happen in a particular order in order to
avoid breakage?



From nobody Thu Aug  8 03:36:40 2019
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From: Alvaro Retana <alvaro.retana@futurewei.com>
To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
CC: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: (with DISCUSS)
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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 10:36:32 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/8cSWCDDY-i31WcvK6SzV0qkZ5-o>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: (with DISCUSS)
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From: Alvaro Retana <alvaro.retana@futurewei.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: (with COMMENT)
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From nobody Sat Aug 10 15:41:44 2019
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Restart Signaling for IS-IS
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Paul Wells
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2019-08-10

Abstract:
   This document describes a mechanism for a restarting router to signal
   to its neighbors that it is restarting, allowing them to reestablish
   their adjacencies without cycling through the down state, while still
   correctly initiating database synchronization.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a router to
   signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initiate a restart while
   maintaining forwarding plane state.  This allows the neighbors to
   maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also
   allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies down in the event of
   other topology changes.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a restarting
   router to determine when it has achieved Link State Protocol Data
   Unit (LSP) database synchronization with its neighbors and a
   mechanism to optimize LSP database synchronization, while minimizing
   transient routing disruption when a router starts.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5306.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Sat Aug 10 16:43:02 2019
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
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Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
To: Les Ginsberg <ginsberg@cisco.com>
References: <94BA6E02-A8B7-4EA8-8D08-55A2B3E447A0@cisco.com> <BYAPR11MB363878ED9A05B5744FF08BD2C1D30@BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/gEipW2xvDlUMf8ukaeCjDFVl8rk>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Tony


> On Aug 12, 2019, at 7:48 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) =
<ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> I am not aware of any relevant IPR.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> From: Acee Lindem (acee)=20
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 7:36 AM
> To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>; Les Ginsberg =
(ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com <mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>; Paul Wells =
(pauwells) <pauwells@cisco.com <mailto:pauwells@cisco.com>>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> Subject: IPR Poll for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
> =20
> Authors,
> =20
> Are you aware of any IPR associated with the subject draft.
> =20
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20=

> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
> =20
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
> =20
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>I am not aware of any relevant IPR.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 12, 2019, at 7:48 AM, Les Ginsberg =
(ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">I am not aware of any relevant =
IPR.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Les<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-style: none =
none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; =
padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; =
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Acee Lindem (acee)<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, August 12, 2019 =
7:36 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tony Li &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt;; Les =
Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Paul Wells (pauwells) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pauwells@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">pauwells@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>IPR Poll for "Hierarchical =
IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Authors,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Are you aware of =
any IPR associated with the subject draft.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">If so, has this =
IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and =
5378 for more details).<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">If you are listed =
as a document author or contributor please respond<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">to this email regardless of =
whether or not you are aware of any<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG =
mailing<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">list.* The =
document will not advance to the next stage until a<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">response has been received from =
each author and contributor.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">If you are on the =
LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">contributor, then please =
explicitly respond only if you are aware of<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">any IPR that has not yet been =
disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D"">Acee</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Support as co-author.

T


> On Aug 12, 2019, at 7:33 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll =
will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =
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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Support as co-author.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">T</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Aug 12, 2019, at 7:33 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">This begins a two week LSR Working =
Group Adoption Poll for the "Hierarchical IS-IS" - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM =
UTC on August 27<sup class=3D"">th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption =
poll.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Acee<o:p =
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normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
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14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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=20

Support.=20

=20

Susan  Hares=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem =
<acee@cisco.com>
Date: Monday, August 12, 2019 at 5:58 PM
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" =
- draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll =
will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
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'>Support. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Susan=C2=A0 Hares =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
on behalf of Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Monday, =
August 12, 2019 at 5:58 PM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;lsr@ietf.org&quot; =
&lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption =
Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>This begins a two week LSR Working Group =
Adoption Poll for the &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM =
UTC on August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate your support of =
objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption =
poll.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 15:40:23 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Support.

However assuming the draft will reach rough consensus of support I do
recommend to change the title during the conversion to WG document. ISIS is
already hierarchical today as even the abstract of the draft clearly says.

Thx,
R.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:57 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the
> "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll
> will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your
> support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Support.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>However assuming the dra=
ft will reach rough consensus of support I do recommend to change the title=
 during the conversion to WG document. ISIS is already hierarchical today a=
s even the abstract of the draft clearly says.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Thx,<br>R.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:57 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7145451673943002816WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a two wee=
k LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM UTC o=
n August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate
 your support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption po=
ll.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Acee<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
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Robert,

Thank you for your support.  What would you suggest? =20

Tony


> On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:40 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> Support.=20
>=20
> However assuming the draft will reach rough consensus of support I do =
recommend to change the title during the conversion to WG document. ISIS =
is already hierarchical today as even the abstract of the draft clearly =
says.=20
>=20
> Thx,
> R.
>=20
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:57 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
> This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll =
will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Acee
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr>
> _______________________________________________
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Robert,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank you for your support. &nbsp;What =
would you suggest? &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug =
13, 2019, at 6:40 AM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" class=3D"">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Support.&nbsp;<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">However assuming the draft will reach =
rough consensus of support I do recommend to change the title during the =
conversion to WG document. ISIS is already hierarchical today as even =
the abstract of the draft clearly says.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thx,<br class=3D"">R.</div></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:57 PM Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br class=3D""></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7145451673943002816WordSection1"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">This =
begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the "Hierarchical =
IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at =
12:00 AM UTC on August 27<sup class=3D"">th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate
 your support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption =
poll.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D""><u =
class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">Thanks,<u =
class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt" class=3D"">Acee<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
Lsr mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
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target=3D"_blank" =
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</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Lsr =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br =
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:48:57 +0200
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To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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> What would you suggest?

How about:  draft-ietf-lsr-n-level-isis-00 ?

r.


On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:42 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

>
> Robert,
>
> Thank you for your support.  What would you suggest?
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2019, at 6:40 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> Support.
>
> However assuming the draft will reach rough consensus of support I do
> recommend to change the title during the conversion to WG document. ISIS is
> already hierarchical today as even the abstract of the draft clearly says.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; What woul=
d you suggest? =C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div>How about:=
=C2=A0 draft-ietf-lsr-n-level-isis-00 ?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></d=
iv><div>r.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:42 PM =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflo=
w-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div>Robert,<div><br></div><div>Thank you fo=
r your support.=C2=A0 What would you suggest? =C2=A0</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Tony</div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Aug 13, 20=
19, at 6:40 AM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" targ=
et=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"gmail-m_81=
87389578121561614Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Support.=
=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>However assuming the draft will reach rough conse=
nsus of support I do recommend to change the title during the conversion to=
 WG document. ISIS is already hierarchical today as even the abstract of th=
e draft clearly says.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div></div>=
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>,  "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
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On August 10, 2019 at 6:44:49 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) (
ginsberg@cisco.com) wrote:

Les:

Hi!

I have a couple of comments below related to backwards compatibility: I
think there is a way to not change the behavior of current implementations
*and* not throw out old implementations.  See below.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

...

245            Note: Implementations based on earlier drafts of RFC 5306

246            may not include this field in the TLV when the RA bit is set=
.

247            In this case, a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN
circuit

248            SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the
local

249            system.



[major] I think it is time we stop catering to old/non-compliant
implementations.  The last time that a draft didn't include the System ID
was draft-ietf-isis-restart-03 in March 2003: more than 15 years ago!!



[Les:] While I am in sympathy with your position, the existing RFC has
allowed implementations based on early versions of the draft to exist and
defined how to interoperate with them. It is therefore conceivable that an
implementor simply never chose to update their implementation since they
never had an interoperability problem reported. I do not see the value in
removing this interoperability. The lack of this support would only be
meaningful in the event multiple systems on the same LAN were restarting at
the same time =E2=80=93 which of course is possible but not probable. I wil=
l
continue to listen if you REALLY feel strongly about this, but in the
spirit of =E2=80=9Cbeing generous in what you receive=E2=80=9D I left this =
unchanged.

We should have caught and eliminated the problem when rfc3874 was
published. <sigh>  BTW, the text above should mention rfc3874 and not
rfc5306.

<rant> IMO, catering to non-standard implementations in a formal
specification devalues the standards process: if the purpose is to create
interoperable implementations, but we=E2=80=99re still going to bend over b=
ackwards
to allow non-compliant implementations (with the product of the WG, the
consensus, etc.), then why are we going through the pain of agreeing on and
standardizing anything?  We might as well just let anyone implement
anything=E2=80=A6or never change the original draft if specifications alrea=
dy
exist=E2=80=A6  </rant>

In this case, making the System ID optional, and explaining how/when it
should be used (as you did above), would fix the issue and bring
non-compliant implementations into the fold.  IOW, I think we would all be
happy if the wording changed from =E2=80=9Callow non-compliant implementati=
ons=E2=80=9D to
=E2=80=9Cthis field is optional=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6for example:

OLD>

   Required when the RA or PA bit is set. Otherwise

   this field SHOULD be omitted when sent and

   MUST be ignored when received.


NEW>

   This field is required when the PA bit is set, and MAY be present when
the

   RA bit is set.  Specifically, it is used when multiple systems on the
same

   LAN are restarting {more details}. If the RA or PA bit is not set, this

   field SHOULD be omitted when sent and MUST be ignored when received.


...

...

428       While the adjacency is in planned restart state the following
actions

429       MAY be taken:



[major] The steps below are optional (MAY)....that is ok.  (a) talks about
a compromised ability to flood updates on a LAN is adjacencies are not
reset, which sound very serious to me.  What are the considerations for an
implementation/deployment to decide using these optional actions?  Should
they be used on LANs, but not necessarily in other link types (just as an
example)?



[Les:] You have agreed that the use of MAY is appropriate here. Which means
all of the text describing what might cause the neighbor of the restarting
router to choose to bring the adjacency down is not normative.

MAY is a Normative keyword, so the text *is* Normative=E2=80=A6the actions =
are
Optional.

We did describe a significant issue that would occur on a LAN if action
were not taken, but as we are allowing that none of the actions are
normative I do not see that the use of MUST would be appropriate in the
description.

Sorry, that was not the question.  I=E2=80=99m not asking (here) why the ac=
tions
are not mandatory.

Let me try again=E2=80=A6. If the actions are optional (MAY), when might an
implementation decide that one of them is an important action to take?  For
example,  (c) makes it optional to suppress LSP/*SNPs=E2=80=A6can you provi=
de
guidance to when/why an implementation might decide to implement this
suggestion and when it might not?

In the end, I just think that if you=E2=80=99re offering options, then it w=
ould
make the specification better if you provided guidance on when it might be
more important to use those options and when it might not.  If you can=E2=
=80=99t
provide additional guidance, then we can move on.



I therefore left this text unchanged.



[minor] The actions below are independent of each other, right?  It may be
worth mentioning that.

[Les:] I have rephrased this as =E2=80=9Csome or all of the following actio=
ns MAY
be taken=E2=80=9D.





431       a.  If additional topology changes occur, the adjacency which is
in

432           planned restart state MAY be brought down even though the hol=
d

433           time has not yet expired.  Given that the neighbor which has

434           signaled a planned restart is not expected to update its

435           forwarding plane in response to signaling of the topology
changes

436           (since it is restarting) traffic which transits that node is
at

437           risk of being improperly forwarded.  On a LAN circuit, if the

438           router in planned restart state is the DIS at any supported

439           level, the adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down whenever any
LSP

440           update is either generated or received so as to trigger a new
DIS

441           election.  Failure to do so will compromise the reliability o=
f

442           the Update Process on that circuit.  What other criteria are
used

443           to determine what topology changes will trigger bringing the

444           adjacency down is a local implementation decision.



[nit] s/received so as to/received, so as to



[major] "adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down...Failure to do so will
compromise the reliability of the Update Process on that circuit."  When is
it ok to not bring these adjacencies down?  If the operator already decided
to deploy these optional steps, why wouldn't the adjacencies be always
brought down?  IOW, why is MUST not used?

[Les:] Answered above

If this option is chosen, why wouldn=E2=80=99t the adjacency be brought dow=
n?

>From above, I understand the action in (a) is optional=E2=80=A6no problem. =
 But if
an implementation chooses to implement it, why wouldn=E2=80=99t the adjacen=
cy be
brought down?

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">On August 10, 2019 at 6:44:49 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsber=
g) (<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</f=
ont></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Les:</font></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Hi!</font></div><div style=3D"marg=
in:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"=
><font face=3D"Helvetica">I have a couple of comments below related to back=
wards compatibility: I think there is a way to not change the behavior of c=
urrent implementations *and* not throw out old implementations.=C2=A0 See b=
elow.</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></=
font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Thanks!</font=
></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div>=
<div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font></div><div=
 style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div> <div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;l=
etter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;w=
hite-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue"=
 vlink=3D"purple"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><div></div></font></div></span><=
/blockquote></div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" st=
yle=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span>=
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div class=3D"WordS=
ection1"><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:=
1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div style=3D"border-=
style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">...</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">245<span class=3D"apple-tab=
-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0=
</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note: Implementations based on ear=
lier drafts of RFC 5306</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">246<span class=
=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-=
space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may not include this =
field in the TLV when the RA bit is set.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">247<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In t=
his case, a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN circuit</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">248<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the =
local</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">249<span class=3D"apple-tab-span=
">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</spa=
n></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0system.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[major] I think it is tim=
e we stop catering to old/non-compliant implementations.=C2=A0 The last tim=
e that a draft didn&#39;t include the System ID was draft-ietf-isis-restart=
-03 in March 2003: more than 15 years ago!!</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Les:] While I am in sympathy with y=
our position, the existing RFC has allowed implementations based on early v=
ersions of the draft to exist and defined how to interoperate with them. It=
 is therefore conceivable that an implementor simply never chose to update =
their implementation since they never had an interoperability problem repor=
ted. I do not see the value in removing this interoperability. The lack of =
this support would only be meaningful in the event multiple systems on the =
same LAN were restarting at the same time =E2=80=93 which of course is poss=
ible but not probable. I will continue to listen if you REALLY feel strongl=
y about this, but in the spirit of =E2=80=9Cbeing generous in what you rece=
ive=E2=80=9D I left this unchanged.</p></div></font></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">We shoul=
d have caught and eliminated the problem when rfc3874 was published. &lt;si=
gh&gt; =C2=A0BTW, the text above should mention rfc3874 and not rfc5306.</f=
ont></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">&lt;rant&gt; IMO, catering to non-stand=
ard implementations in a formal specification devalues the standards proces=
s: if the purpose is to create interoperable implementations, but we=E2=80=
=99re still going to bend over backwards to allow non-compliant implementat=
ions (with the product of the WG, the consensus, etc.), then why are we goi=
ng through the pain of agreeing on and standardizing anything?=C2=A0 We mig=
ht as well just let anyone implement anything=E2=80=A6or never change the o=
riginal draft if specifications already exist=E2=80=A6 =C2=A0&lt;/rant&gt;<=
/font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">In this case, making the System ID op=
tional, and explaining how/when it should be used (as you did above), would=
 fix the issue and bring non-compliant implementations into the fold.=C2=A0=
 IOW, I think we would all be happy if the wording changed from =E2=80=9Cal=
low non-compliant implementations=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cthis field is option=
al=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6for example:</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">OLD&=
gt;=C2=A0</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Required when =
the RA or PA bit is set. Otherwise</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this field SHOULD be omitted when sent and</font></p><p><font =
face=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be ignored when received.</font></p><p=
><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">NEW&gt=
;=C2=A0</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0 =C2=A0This field is re=
quired when the PA bit is set, and MAY be present when the=C2=A0</font></p>=
<p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0 =C2=A0RA bit is set.=C2=A0 Specifically,=
 it is used when multiple systems on the same=C2=A0</font></p><p><font face=
=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0 =C2=A0LAN are restarting {more details}. If the RA or=
 PA bit is not set, this=C2=A0</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0field SHOULD be omitted when sent and MUST be ignored when received.=
</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></p><p><font face=3D"Helv=
etica">...</font></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"=
 style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><sp=
an><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"WordSec=
tion1"><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.=
5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div style=3D"border-st=
yle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;pad=
ding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
...</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">428<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=
</span>=C2=A0 While the adjacency is in planned restart state the following=
 actions</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">429<span class=3D"apple-tab-s=
pan">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</=
span></span>=C2=A0 MAY be taken:</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[major] The steps below are option=
al (MAY)....that is ok. =C2=A0(a) talks about a compromised ability to floo=
d updates on a LAN is adjacencies are not reset, which sound very serious t=
o me.=C2=A0 What are the considerations for an implementation/deployment to=
 decide using these optional actions?=C2=A0 Should they be used on LANs, bu=
t not necessarily in other link types (just as an example)?</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Les:] You have agre=
ed that the use of MAY is appropriate here. Which means all of the text des=
cribing what might cause the neighbor of the restarting router to choose to=
 bring the adjacency down is not normative.</p></div></font></div></div></d=
iv></div></span></blockquote></div><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">MAY is a Nor=
mative keyword, so the text *is* Normative=E2=80=A6the actions are Optional=
.</font></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D=
"font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-inden=
t:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div class=3D"WordSection=
1"><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;=
border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div style=3D"border-style:=
none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding=
:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Helvetica"=
>We did describe a significant issue that would occur on a LAN if action we=
re not taken, but as we are allowing that none of the actions are normative=
 I do not see that the use of MUST would be appropriate in the description.=
</font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></=
div><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Sorry, that was not the question.=C2=A0 I=
=E2=80=99m not asking (here) why the actions are not mandatory.</font></p><=
p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Let me try again=E2=80=A6. If the actions are op=
tional (MAY), when might an implementation decide that one of them is an im=
portant action to take?=C2=A0 For example, =C2=A0(c) makes it optional to s=
uppress LSP/*SNPs=E2=80=A6can you provide guidance to when/why an implement=
ation might decide to implement this suggestion and when it might not?</fon=
t></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">In the end, I just think that if you=E2=
=80=99re offering options, then it would make the specification better if y=
ou provided guidance on when it might be more important to use those option=
s and when it might not.=C2=A0 If you can=E2=80=99t provide additional guid=
ance, then we can move on.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font=
></p><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-v=
ariant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div lang=3D"=
EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div=
 style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-=
left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div style=3D"border-style:none no=
ne none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 4pt"><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br cl=
ass=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">I therefore left this text unchanged.</p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[minor] =
The actions below are independent of each other, right?=C2=A0 It may be wor=
th mentioning that.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Les:] I have rephrased this =
as =E2=80=9Csome or all of the following actions MAY be taken=E2=80=9D.</p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">431<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></s=
pan>=C2=A0 a.=C2=A0 If additional topology changes occur, the adjacency whi=
ch is in</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">432<span class=3D"apple-tab-s=
pan">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</=
span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 planned restart state MAY be brought down =
even though the hold</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">433<span class=3D=
"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 time has not yet expired.=C2=
=A0 Given that the neighbor which has</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
434<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 signaled a pl=
anned restart is not expected to update its</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">435<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=
=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 forward=
ing plane in response to signaling of the topology changes</p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">436<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 (since it is restarting) traffic which transits that node is at<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">437<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></s=
pan>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 risk of being improperly forwarded.=C2=A0 On a LAN=
 circuit, if the</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">438<span class=3D"app=
le-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 router in planned restart state is=
 the DIS at any supported</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">439<span cla=
ss=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converte=
d-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 level, the adjacency(ies)=
 SHOULD be brought down whenever any LSP</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l">440<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 update is =
either generated or received so as to trigger a new DIS</p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">441<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 election.=C2=A0 Failure to do so will compromise the reliability of<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">442<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></s=
pan>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Update Process on that circuit.=C2=A0 What oth=
er criteria are used</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">443<span class=3D=
"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-converted-spa=
ce">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to determine what topology cha=
nges will trigger bringing the</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">444<spa=
n class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<span class=3D"Apple-con=
verted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 adjacency down is a =
local implementation decision.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[nit] s/received so as to/received, so=
 as to</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">[major] &quot;adjacency(ies) SHOULD be brought down...Failur=
e to do so will compromise the reliability of the Update Process on that ci=
rcuit.&quot; =C2=A0When is it ok to not bring these adjacencies down?=C2=A0=
 If the operator already decided to deploy these optional steps, why wouldn=
&#39;t the adjacencies be always brought down?=C2=A0 IOW, why is MUST not u=
sed?</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Les:] Answered above</p></div></font></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><p><font face=3D"He=
lvetica">If this option is chosen, why wouldn=E2=80=99t the adjacency be br=
ought down?</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">From above, I understand =
the action in (a) is optional=E2=80=A6no problem.=C2=A0 But if an implement=
ation chooses to implement it, why wouldn=E2=80=99t the adjacency be brough=
t down?</font></p></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"></=
div></body></html>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:57:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>,  Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 17:07:21 +0200
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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> lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy

 Sounds great !

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy=C2=A0</d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div>=C2=A0Sounds great !</div><div><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_2463668458461885902WordSection=
1"><div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;borde=
r-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><di=
v><div><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><di=
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WGLC: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg (and remaining IPR replies)
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: WGLC: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg (and remaining IPR replies)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WGLC: draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg (and remaining IPR replies)
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>,  "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-02
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On August 13, 2019 at 11:46:10 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) (
ginsberg@cisco.com) wrote:

Hi!


...

245            Note: Implementations based on earlier drafts of RFC 5306

246            may not include this field in the TLV when the RA bit is set=
.

247            In this case, a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN
circuit

248            SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the
local

249            system.



[major] I think it is time we stop catering to old/non-compliant
implementations.  The last time that a draft didn't include the System ID
was draft-ietf-isis-restart-03 in March 2003: more than 15 years ago!!



[Les:] While I am in sympathy with your position, the existing RFC has
allowed implementations based on early versions of the draft to exist and
defined how to interoperate with them. It is therefore conceivable that an
implementor simply never chose to update their implementation since they
never had an interoperability problem reported. I do not see the value in
removing this interoperability. The lack of this support would only be
meaningful in the event multiple systems on the same LAN were restarting at
the same time =E2=80=93 which of course is possible but not probable. I wil=
l
continue to listen if you REALLY feel strongly about this, but in the
spirit of =E2=80=9Cbeing generous in what you receive=E2=80=9D I left this =
unchanged.

We should have caught and eliminated the problem when rfc3874 was
published. <sigh>  BTW, the text above should mention rfc3874 and not
rfc5306.

*[Les:] Well, I did ask where you were when RFC 3847 (not 3874 as I
mistakenly mentioned)  was approved. **=F0=9F=98=8A*

<rant> IMO, catering to non-standard implementations in a formal
specification devalues the standards process: if the purpose is to create
interoperable implementations, but we=E2=80=99re still going to bend over b=
ackwards
to allow non-compliant implementations (with the product of the WG, the
consensus, etc.), then why are we going through the pain of agreeing on and
standardizing anything?  We might as well just let anyone implement
anything=E2=80=A6or never change the original draft if specifications alrea=
dy
exist=E2=80=A6  </rant>

In this case, making the System ID optional, and explaining how/when it
should be used (as you did above), would fix the issue and bring
non-compliant implementations into the fold.  IOW, I think we would all be
happy if the wording changed from =E2=80=9Callow non-compliant implementati=
ons=E2=80=9D to
=E2=80=9Cthis field is optional=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6for example:

OLD>

   Required when the RA or PA bit is set. Otherwise

   this field SHOULD be omitted when sent and

   MUST be ignored when received.



NEW>

   This field is required when the PA bit is set, and MAY be present when
the

   RA bit is set.  Specifically, it is used when multiple systems on the
same

   LAN are restarting {more details}. If the RA or PA bit is not set, this

   field SHOULD be omitted when sent and MUST be ignored when received.



*[Les:] There is no reason to extend this option to PA bit. Legacy issues =
=E2=80=93
if they exist at all - only exist in regards to RA. How about if I rewrite
the text with something like this?*

*=E2=80=9CVery early draft versions of the restart functionality did not in=
clude
the Restarting Neighbor System ID in the TLV. RFC 5306 allowed for the
possibility of interoperating with these legacy implementations by*

*stating that a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN circuit  SHOULD
assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the local  system if the TLV
is received with RA set and Restarting Neighbor System ID is not present.*

*It is an implementation choice whether to continue to accept (on a LAN) a
TLV with RA set and Restarting Neighbor System ID absent. Note that the
omission of the Restarting Neighbor System ID only introduces ambiguity in
the case where there are multiple systems on a LAN*

*simultaneously performing restart.=E2=80=9D*

*??*

Yes, that looks good=E2=80=A6just to be extra picky about the rfc2119 keywo=
rds:
 s/SHOULD/should   It is not Normative in this document.

I=E2=80=99ll go ahead and start the IETF LC.  You can submit this change no=
w, or as
other LC comments come in.

Thanks!!

Alvaro.

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On August 13, 2019 at 11:46:10 AM, Les Ginsberg =
(ginsberg) (<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>) w=
rote:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></=
div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div> <div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:nor=
mal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n=
one;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"=
blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div></div><div><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;bord=
er-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div><d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;font-variant-caps:=
normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><div><div><div><div style=3D"bord=
er-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blu=
e;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;=
border-left-width:1.5pt;border-left-color:blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Hel=
vetica,sans-serif">...</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">245<span class=3D"a=
pple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"apple-converte=
d-space">=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Note: Implementations base=
d on earlier drafts of RFC 5306</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">246<span c=
lass=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"apple=
-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may not include t=
his field in the TLV when the RA bit is set.</span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-ser=
if">247<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In =
this case, a router that is expecting an RA on a LAN circuit</span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Hel=
vetica,sans-serif">248<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is directed at the loca=
l</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt=
;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">249<span class=3D"apple-tab-span">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0system.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">[major] I think it is time we stop cateri=
ng to old/non-compliant implementations.=C2=A0 The last time that a draft d=
idn&#39;t include the System ID was draft-ietf-isis-restart-03 in March 200=
3: more than 15 years ago!!</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helveti=
ca,sans-serif">[Les:] While I am in sympathy with your position, the existi=
ng RFC has allowed implementations based on early versions of the draft to =
exist and defined how to interoperate with them. It is therefore conceivabl=
e that an implementor simply never chose to update their implementation sin=
ce they never had an interoperability problem reported. I do not see the va=
lue in removing this interoperability. The lack of this support would only =
be meaningful in the event multiple systems on the same LAN were restarting=
 at the same time =E2=80=93 which of course is possible but not probable. I=
 will continue to listen if you REALLY feel strongly about this, but in the=
 spirit of =E2=80=9Cbeing generous in what you receive=E2=80=9D I left this=
 unchanged.</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=
We should have caught and eliminated the problem when rfc3874 was published=
. &lt;sigh&gt; =C2=A0BTW, the text above should mention rfc3874 and not rfc=
5306.</span></p><p><b><i>[Les:] Well, I did ask where you were when RFC 384=
7 (not 3874 as I mistakenly mentioned) =C2=A0was approved.<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></i></b><b><i><span style=3D"font-family:=
&#39;Segoe UI Emoji&#39;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=8A</span></i></b></p><p><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">&lt;rant&gt; IM=
O, catering to non-standard implementations in a formal specification deval=
ues the standards process: if the purpose is to create interoperable implem=
entations, but we=E2=80=99re still going to bend over backwards to allow no=
n-compliant implementations (with the product of the WG, the consensus, etc=
.), then why are we going through the pain of agreeing on and standardizing=
 anything?=C2=A0 We might as well just let anyone implement anything=E2=80=
=A6or never change the original draft if specifications already exist=E2=80=
=A6 =C2=A0&lt;/rant&gt;</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:Helvetica,sans-serif">In this case, making the System ID optional, and =
explaining how/when it should be used (as you did above), would fix the iss=
ue and bring non-compliant implementations into the fold.=C2=A0 IOW, I thin=
k we would all be happy if the wording changed from =E2=80=9Callow non-comp=
liant implementations=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cthis field is optional=E2=80=9D=
=E2=80=A6for example:</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-famil=
y:Helvetica,sans-serif">OLD&gt;=C2=A0</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Required when the RA o=
r PA bit is set. Otherwise</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-=
family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0this field SHOULD be omitted when=
 sent and</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,=
sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be ignored when received.</span></p><p><span =
style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></p>=
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">NEW&gt;=
=C2=A0</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,san=
s-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0This field is required when the PA bit is set, and MA=
Y be present when the=C2=A0</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0RA bit is set.=C2=A0 Specificall=
y, it is used when multiple systems on the same=C2=A0</span></p><p><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0LAN ar=
e restarting {more details}. If the RA or PA bit is not set, this=C2=A0</sp=
an></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0field SHOULD be omitted when sent and MUST be ignored when rec=
eived.</span></p><p><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,san=
s-serif">=C2=A0</span></p><p><b><i>[Les:] There is no reason to extend this=
 option to PA bit. Legacy issues =E2=80=93 if they exist at all - only exis=
t in regards to RA. How about if I rewrite the text with something like thi=
s?</i></b></p><p><b><i>=E2=80=9CVery early draft versions of the restart fu=
nctionality did not include the Restarting Neighbor System ID in the TLV. R=
FC 5306 allowed for the possibility of interoperating with these legacy imp=
lementations by</i></b></p><p><b><i>stating that a router that is expecting=
 an RA on a LAN circuit=C2=A0 SHOULD assume that the acknowledgement is dir=
ected at the local=C2=A0 system if the TLV is received with RA set and Rest=
arting Neighbor System ID is not present.</i></b></p><p><b><i>It is an impl=
ementation choice whether to continue to accept (on a LAN) a TLV with RA se=
t and Restarting Neighbor System ID absent. Note that the omission of the R=
estarting Neighbor System ID only introduces ambiguity in the case where th=
ere are multiple systems on a LAN</i></b></p><p><b><i>simultaneously perfor=
ming restart.=E2=80=9D</i></b></p><p><b><i>??</i></b></p></div></div></div>=
</div></div></span></blockquote></div><p>Yes, that looks good=E2=80=A6just =
to be extra picky about the rfc2119 keywords: =C2=A0s/SHOULD/should =C2=A0 =
It is not Normative in this document.</p><p>I=E2=80=99ll go ahead and start=
 the IETF LC.=C2=A0 You can submit this change now, or as other LC comments=
 come in.</p><p>Thanks!!</p><p>Alvaro.</p></body></html>

--0000000000007ddf1b05900414f4--


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Subject: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03.txt> (Restart Signaling for IS-IS) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Link State Routing WG (lsr) to
consider the following document: - 'Restart Signaling for IS-IS'
  <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-03.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-08-27. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of
the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This document describes a mechanism for a restarting router to signal
   to its neighbors that it is restarting, allowing them to reestablish
   their adjacencies without cycling through the down state, while still
   correctly initiating database synchronization.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a router to
   signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initiate a restart while
   maintaining forwarding plane state.  This allows the neighbors to
   maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also
   allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies down in the event of
   other topology changes.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a restarting
   router to determine when it has achieved Link State Protocol Data
   Unit (LSP) database synchronization with its neighbors and a
   mechanism to optimize LSP database synchronization, while minimizing
   transient routing disruption when a router starts.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5306.





The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.





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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Restart Signaling for IS-IS
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Paul Wells
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2019-08-13

Abstract:
   This document describes a mechanism for a restarting router to signal
   to its neighbors that it is restarting, allowing them to reestablish
   their adjacencies without cycling through the down state, while still
   correctly initiating database synchronization.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a router to
   signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initiate a restart while
   maintaining forwarding plane state.  This allows the neighbors to
   maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also
   allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies down in the event of
   other topology changes.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a restarting
   router to determine when it has achieved Link State Protocol Data
   Unit (LSP) database synchronization with its neighbors and a
   mechanism to optimize LSP database synchronization, while minimizing
   transient routing disruption when a router starts.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5306.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 13:18:24 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?lsr=40ietf.org?=" <lsr@ietf.org>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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+1

Cheers,
Jeff
On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wrot=
e:
> > lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy
>
> =C2=A0Sounds great =21
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr=40ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--5d531b1c_5992a02e_12dc6
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<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>+1</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br />
<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Rob=
ert Raszuk &lt;robert=40raszuk.net&gt;, wrote:<br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 class=3D=22spark=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22marg=
in: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid =231abc9c;=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>&gt; lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy&=23160;</div>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22><br /></div>
<div>&=23160;Sounds great =21</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22>
<blockquote class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote spark=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22margin: =
5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid =23e67e22;=22>
<div lang=3D=22EN-US=22 xml:lang=3D=22EN-US=22>
<div class=3D=22gmail-m=5F2463668458461885902WordSection1=22>
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er-left:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt=22>
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thin solid =233498db;=22 class=3D=22spark=5Fquote=22>
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<blockquote style=3D=22margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: =
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</div>
</div>
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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Lsr mailing list<br />
Lsr=40ietf.org<br />
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<br /></blockquote>
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From: Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:53:42 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Support!

Thanks,
Sarah

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:19 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> +1
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, wrote:
>
> > lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy
>
>  Sounds great !
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Sup=
port!=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Thanks,</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Sarah</div></div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, A=
ug 13, 2019 at 1:19 PM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gm=
ail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div dir=3D"auto">+1</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5450534426396806843matchFont">Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageReplySection">On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Ra=
szuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@rasz=
uk.net</a>&gt;, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"gmail-m_-5450534426396806843spark_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid rgb(26,188,15=
6)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0Sounds great !</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote gmail-m_-5450534426396806843spark_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid rgb(230,126,34)=
">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5450534426396806843gmail-m_2463668458461885902WordSe=
ction1">
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid rg=
b(52,152,219)" class=3D"gmail-m_-5450534426396806843spark_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5px;padding-left:10px;border-left:thin solid rg=
b(211,84,0)" class=3D"gmail-m_-5450534426396806843spark_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br></blockquote>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000002a927f059006ad2f--


From nobody Tue Aug 13 15:20:10 2019
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF SR (Segment Routing) Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-10.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2019-08-13

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF Segment Routing.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as
   defined in RFC 7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore
   Architecture (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-sr-yang-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Support 

Regards,
Jeff

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 13:18, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>> On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, wrote:
>> > lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy 
>> 
>>  Sounds great !
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Support&nbsp;<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Aug 13, 2019, at 13:18, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href="mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">

<title></title>


<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto">+1</div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
<div class="matchFont">Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href="mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" class="spark_quote" style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid #1abc9c;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">&gt; lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy&nbsp;</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div>
<div>&nbsp;Sounds great !</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote spark_quote" style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: thin solid #e67e22;">
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<div>
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From nobody Wed Aug 14 02:39:03 2019
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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+1
Regards
Simone
>>> Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com> Mercoled=C3=AC 14 Agosto 2019 >>>
+1 support of the adoption and the name!
=20
Jingrong
=20
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 4:18 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Robert Raszuk <robert@ras=
zuk.net>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco=
.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical =
IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
=20
+1
=20
Cheers,=20
Jeff
On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, wrote:



> lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy=20
=20
 Sounds great !
=20
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<html><head>=0A=0A<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Novell Groupwise =
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class=3D"GroupWiseMessageBody" id=3D"GroupWiseSection_1565775475000_Simone.=
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pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}=0Adiv.WordSection1=0A	{page:WordSection1;}=0A--><=
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layout v:ext=3D"edit">=0A<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />=0A</o:shapel=
ayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=0A<div class=3D"GroupWiseMessageBody" =
id=3D"GroupWiseSection_1565744365000_Simone Colombo"><span class=3D"Groupwi=
seReplyHeader">&gt;&gt;&gt; Xiejingrong &lt;xiejingrong@huawei.com&gt; =
Mercoled=C3=AC 14 Agosto 2019 &gt;&gt;&gt;<br></span><div>=0A<div =
class=3D"WordSection1">=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-famil=
y: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;'>+1 support of the adoption =
and the name!<o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); font-family: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: =
"Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 10.5pt;'>Jingrong<o:p></o:p></span></div>=
=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D'color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri",sans-serif; =
font-size: 10.5pt;'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>=0A<div>=0A<div =
style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; =
border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt =
0cm 0cm; border-image: none;">=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D'font-family: "Calibri",sans-=
serif; font-size: 11pt;'>From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D'font=
-family: "Calibri",sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;'> Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org]=0A<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>=0A<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =
August 14, 2019 4:18 AM<br>=0A<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsbe=
rg@cisco.com&gt;; Robert Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt;<br>=0A<b>Cc:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org; Tony Li &lt;tony.li@tony.li&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br>=0A<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group =
Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isi=
s-01<o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span=
></div>=0A<div name=3D"messageBodySection">=0A<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">+1<o:p></o:p></span=
></div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection">=0A<div =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>=0A<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A=
<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<d=
iv name=3D"messageReplySection">=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM -0700, =
Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a=
>&gt;, wrote:<br>=0A<br>=0A<o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A<blockquote =
style=3D"border-width: medium medium medium 1pt; border-style: none none =
none solid; border-color: currentColor currentColor currentColor rgb(26, =
188, 156); margin: 3.75pt; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 8pt; border-image: =
none;">=0A<div>=0A<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; lsr-isis-extended-hierarchy&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></div>=0A</div>=0A<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>=0A</=
div>=0A<div>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;Sounds great !<o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A</div>=0A<d=
iv>=0A<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<div =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">___=
____________________________________________<br>=0ALsr mailing list<br>=0A<=
a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>=0A<a href=3D"https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></div>=0A</blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A</div></div=
></div></body></html>

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From nobody Wed Aug 14 07:09:19 2019
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From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding
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Dear Tony Li, Peter Psenak, Les Ginsberg, Huaimo Chen, Tony Przygienda, Dave Cooper, Luay Jalil, Srinath Dontula:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Dynamic
Flooding on Dense Graphs" (draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding) was submitted to
the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3684/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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From: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hi Acee,

I am not aware of any relevant IPR.

Paul

On 8/12/19 9:36 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>
> Authors,
>
> Are you aware of any IPR associated with the subject draft.
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
>
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
>
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
>
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
>
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
>
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>


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    Hi Acee,<br>
    <br>
    I am not aware of any relevant IPR.<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/12/19 9:36 AM, Acee Lindem (acee)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:94BA6E02-A8B7-4EA8-8D08-55A2B3E447A0@cisco.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Are you
            aware of any IPR associated with the subject draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If so, has
            this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">(see RFCs
            3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If you are
            listed as a document author or contributor please respond<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">to this
            email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">relevant
            IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">list.* The
            document will not advance to the next stage until a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">response has
            been received from each author and contributor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If you are
            on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">contributor,
            then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">any IPR that
            has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,<br>
            Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
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--------------8D2487D3772EA0DDC0C3AE2E--


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Some comments on this draft:

1. The size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is =
it the right direction to make the network more hierarchical?=20

2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also be traversed in =
hierarchical way, is it more efficient?

3. Is there any other methods to scale out the IS-IS deployment?

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5 =
22:33
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll =
will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Some comments on this =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1. The size of network is =
increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is it the right direction to =
make the network more hierarchical? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>2. More hierarchical network =
means the traffic will also be traversed in hierarchical way, is it more =
efficient?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>3. Is there any other methods =
to scale out the IS-IS deployment?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>China =
Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2019</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>8</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>12</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 22:33<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> =
lsr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> [Lsr] LSR Working Group =
Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>This begins a two week LSR =
Working Group Adoption Poll for the &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM =
UTC on August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate your support of =
objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption =
poll.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Hi Aijun,

> 1. The size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is =
it the right direction to make the network more hierarchical?=20


Well, given that we=E2=80=99re talking a link state protocol running SPF =
over a database in O(n log n) time, it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that we =
don=E2=80=99t want to scale the size of an area indefinitely. While =
modern processors are amazing (especially to those of us that started =
off with KHz 8080=E2=80=99s), it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that Moore=E2=80=99=
s law is over and that we cannot expect infinite compute power anytime =
in the future.  The alternative is to partition the network in some way. =
 Once partitioned, hierarchical arrangement seems like a natural fit. =
It=E2=80=99s been said that the only real tool that we have over scale =
is hierarchy.  Divide and conquer.


> 2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also be traversed =
in hierarchical way, is it more efficient?


The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that =
the data plane is necessarily hierarchical.


> 3. Is there any other methods to scale out the IS-IS deployment?


If you=E2=80=99ve been following along, Dynamic Flooding =
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-03 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-03>) allows =
us to address the limitations that we have with flooding, allowing us to =
scale the size of an area. However, it does not address the O(n log n) =
cost of SPF that will still ultimately bound the growth of areas and in =
turn necessitate more hierarchy.

Regards,
Tony



--Apple-Mail=_F3B083A9-1478-4D88-93BC-CC62A4EEC757
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Aijun,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">1. The =
size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is it the =
right direction to make the network more hierarchical?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Well, =
given that we=E2=80=99re talking a link state protocol running SPF over =
a database in O(n log n) time, it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that we don=E2=80=
=99t want to scale the size of an area indefinitely. While modern =
processors are amazing (especially to those of us that started off with =
KHz 8080=E2=80=99s), it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that Moore=E2=80=99s law =
is over and that we cannot expect infinite compute power anytime in the =
future. &nbsp;The alternative is to partition the network in some way. =
&nbsp;Once partitioned, hierarchical arrangement seems like a natural =
fit. It=E2=80=99s been said that the only real tool that we have over =
scale is hierarchy. &nbsp;Divide and conquer.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also be =
traversed in hierarchical way, is it more =
efficient?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>The hierarchical =
arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that the data plane is =
necessarily hierarchical.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">3. Is there any other methods to scale out =
the IS-IS deployment?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>If you=E2=80=99ve been =
following along, Dynamic Flooding (<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-03" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-03<=
/a>) allows us to address the limitations that we have with flooding, =
allowing us to scale the size of an area. However, it does not address =
the O(n log n) cost of SPF that will still ultimately bound the growth =
of areas and in turn necessitate more hierarchy.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Tony</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 16:56:38 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMFNkVbgbN1v7Q_4PBfLVN=Me_whcR36Um-Eu_AgSDF4Xg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr]  =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBMU1IgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCBBZG9wdGlvbiBD?= =?utf-8?q?all_for_=22Hierarchical_IS-IS=22_-_draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchic?= =?utf-8?q?al-isis-01?=
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Hi Tony,

> The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that the
data plane is necessarily hierarchical.

Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but
failed.

While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you have
any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane is non
hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control plane used
traverses multiple levels ?

Thx,
R.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 4:40 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

>
> Hi Aijun,
>
> 1. The size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is it
> the right direction to make the network more hierarchical?
>
>
>
> Well, given that we=E2=80=99re talking a link state protocol running SPF =
over a
> database in O(n log n) time, it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that we don=E2=80=
=99t want to scale
> the size of an area indefinitely. While modern processors are amazing
> (especially to those of us that started off with KHz 8080=E2=80=99s), it=
=E2=80=99s pretty
> clear that Moore=E2=80=99s law is over and that we cannot expect infinite=
 compute
> power anytime in the future.  The alternative is to partition the network
> in some way.  Once partitioned, hierarchical arrangement seems like a
> natural fit. It=E2=80=99s been said that the only real tool that we have =
over scale
> is hierarchy.  Divide and conquer.
>
>
> 2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also be traversed in
> hierarchical way, is it more efficient?
>
>
>
> The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that the
> data plane is necessarily hierarchical.
>
>
> 3. Is there any other methods to scale out the IS-IS deployment?
>
>
>
> If you=E2=80=99ve been following along, Dynamic Flooding (
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-03) allows us
> to address the limitations that we have with flooding, allowing us to sca=
le
> the size of an area. However, it does not address the O(n log n) cost of
> SPF that will still ultimately bound the growth of areas and in turn
> necessitate more hierarchy.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Tony,</div><div><br></div>&gt; The hierarchical ar=
rangement of the control plane does NOT imply that the data plane is necess=
arily hierarchical.=C2=A0=C2=A0<br><div><br></div><div>Since Aijun posted h=
is question I was trying to think of such model, but failed.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BG=
P - do you have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where dat=
a plane is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while con=
trol plane used traverses multiple levels ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
Thx,</div><div>R.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 4:40 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"=
><div><br></div>Hi Aijun,<div><br></div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><div class=3D"gmail-m_-3253465627320614944WordSection1" style=3D"font=
-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal=
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:non=
e"><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73=
,125)">1. The size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. =
Is it the right direction to make the network more hierarchical?<span class=
=3D"gmail-m_-3253465627320614944Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span>=
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Well, giv=
en that we=E2=80=99re talking a link state protocol running SPF over a data=
base in O(n log n) time, it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that we don=E2=80=99t wa=
nt to scale the size of an area indefinitely. While modern processors are a=
mazing (especially to those of us that started off with KHz 8080=E2=80=99s)=
, it=E2=80=99s pretty clear that Moore=E2=80=99s law is over and that we ca=
nnot expect infinite compute power anytime in the future.=C2=A0 The alterna=
tive is to partition the network in some way.=C2=A0 Once partitioned, hiera=
rchical arrangement seems like a natural fit. It=E2=80=99s been said that t=
he only real tool that we have over scale is hierarchy.=C2=A0 Divide and co=
nquer.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail-m_-3253465627320614944WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;f=
ont-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal=
;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none=
;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style=3D"ma=
rgin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></=
u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also=
 be traversed in hierarchical way, is it more efficient?</span></div></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The hierarchical arra=
ngement of the control plane does NOT imply that the data plane is necessar=
ily hierarchical.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail-m_-3253465627320614944WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-we=
ight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div =
style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-se=
rif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><=
u></u><u></u></span></div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:1=
2pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)">3. Is there any other methods to scale out th=
e IS-IS deployment?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></blockquote><br>=
</div><div><br></div><div>If you=E2=80=99ve been following along, Dynamic F=
looding (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding-03" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynam=
ic-flooding-03</a>) allows us to address the limitations that we have with =
flooding, allowing us to scale the size of an area. However, it does not ad=
dress the O(n log n) cost of SPF that will still ultimately bound the growt=
h of areas and in turn necessitate more hierarchy.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Regards,</div><div>Tony</div><div><br></div><br></div></div>______________=
_________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Hi Robert,


> > The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply =
that the data plane is necessarily hierarchical. =20
>=20
> Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, =
but failed.=20
>=20
> While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you =
have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane =
is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control =
plane used traverses multiple levels ?=20


Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect.  At the =
intersection, traffic can transition between the areas without entering =
the parent level.

While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also point out that the existence of =
hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate its use. This is =
another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the job at hand.

Tony


--Apple-Mail=_2D40C64F-09CB-493C-B40E-61A8378B4377
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Robert,<div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">&gt; The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does =
NOT imply that the data plane is necessarily =
hierarchical.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Since =
Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but =
failed.&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">While it is easy to envision this =
with DV protocols say BGP - do you have any pointer to a link state =
protocol architecture where data plane is non hierarchical (links do not =
belong to upper levels) while control plane used traverses multiple =
levels ?&nbsp;</div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect. =
&nbsp;At the intersection, traffic can transition between the areas =
without entering the parent level.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also =
point out that the existence of hierarchy for the control plane does not =
mandate its use. This is another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool =
for the job at hand.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_2D40C64F-09CB-493C-B40E-61A8378B4377--


From nobody Thu Aug 15 14:37:48 2019
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Reviewer: Russ Housley
Review result: Ready with Nits

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04
Reviewer: Russ Housley
Review Date: 2019-08-15
IETF LC End Date: 2019-08-27
IESG Telechat date: Unknown

Summary: Ready with Nits

Major Concerns:

None


Minor Concerns:

None


Nits:

Section 3.2.3: The lettered paragraphs at the top of the section
begin with lower case letters, but the lettered paragraphs at the
top of the section begin with upper case letters.  Please be
consistent.

Section 3.2.3: s/time after which the adjacency will now expire/
                /time after which the adjacency will expire/

Section 3.2.3 says:

   ... It
   is therefore useful to signal a planned restart (if the forwarding
   plane on the restarting router is maintained) so that ...

I suggest:

   ... If
   the forwarding plane on the restarting router is maintained, it
   is useful to signal a planned restart so that ...


From nobody Thu Aug 15 23:26:38 2019
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Hi, Acee:

=20

It=E2=80=99s interesting to extend the ISIS hierarchical in this way. =
What I considering is the complexity of its deployment in future. Maybe =
we can discuss/emphasizes on this aspect deep later.

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 =
21:02
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang; lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: LSR Working Group =
Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

Speaking as LSR WG Member:

=20

Hi Aijun,=20

I agree that most deployments will not move to greater than two levels =
given that we=E2=80=99ve gone this many decades with two and the =
predominant underlay deployment is one level. However, there appears to =
be sufficient interest and couple with good technical work on the =
specification to move to the next stage and adopt this as a working =
group document. =20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Date: Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 3:11 AM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

Some comments on this draft:

1. The size of network is increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is =
it the right direction to make the network more hierarchical?=20

2. More hierarchical network means the traffic will also be traversed in =
hierarchical way, is it more efficient?

3. Is there any other methods to scale out the IS-IS deployment?

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5 =
22:33
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll =
will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your =
support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>It=E2=80=99s interesting to =
extend the ISIS hierarchical in this way. What I considering is the =
complexity of its deployment in future. Maybe we can discuss/emphasizes =
on this aspect deep later.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>China =
Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2019</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>8</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>15</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 21:02<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun Wang; =
lsr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Re: [Lsr] =
</span>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D<span lang=3DEN-US>: LSR Working Group Adoption =
Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Speaking as LSR WG =
Member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hi =
Aijun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I agree that most deployments will not move =
to greater than two levels given that we=E2=80=99ve gone this many =
decades with two and the predominant underlay deployment is one level. =
However, there appears to be sufficient interest and couple with good =
technical work on the specification to move to the next stage and adopt =
this as a working group document. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 3:11 AM<br><b>To: =
</b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b></span><span style=3D'font-family:"MS =
Gothic";color:black'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
&quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Some comments on this =
draft:</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>1. The size of network is =
increasing, but it is becoming more flat. Is it the right direction to =
make the network more hierarchical? </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>2. More hierarchical network =
means the traffic will also be traversed in hierarchical way, is it more =
efficient?</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>3. Is there any other methods =
to scale out the IS-IS deployment?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideogra=
ph'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideogra=
ph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideogra=
ph'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideogra=
ph'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>China =
Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
</span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2019</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>8</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>12</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 22:33<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=
=98<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> [Lsr] LSR Working =
Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01</span></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>This begins a two week LSR Working Group =
Adoption Poll for the &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM =
UTC on August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate your support of =
objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption =
poll.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: <tony.li@tony.li>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: <lsr@ietf.org>
References: <8BAFFDB4-62B0-4018-966E-6861D89D0BD1@cisco.com> <01a501d55338$945c2b40$bd1481c0$@org.cn> <C90AD13E-1512-4373-9CF7-32BAD6D65EC6@tony.li> <CAOj+MMFNkVbgbN1v7Q_4PBfLVN=Me_whcR36Um-Eu_AgSDF4Xg@mail.gmail.com> <24D935ED-28C3-4A84-B42C-E429EC2D6FE8@tony.li>
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Hi, Tony:

=20

Would you like to elaborate this in more detail to show how you design =
the control plane hierarchically but the traffic can be transported =
horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the following graph:

=20



If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will =
not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the =
link information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two =
connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 tony.li@tony.li
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 =
23:37
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Robert Raszuk
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

=20

Hi Robert,

=20





> The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that =
the data plane is necessarily hierarchical. =20

=20

Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but =
failed.=20

=20

While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you =
have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane =
is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control =
plane used traverses multiple levels ?=20

=20

=20

Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect.  At the =
intersection, traffic can transition between the areas without entering =
the parent level.

=20

While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also point out that the existence of =
hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate its use. This is =
another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the job at hand.

=20

Tony

=20


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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi, Tony:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Would you like to elaborate this in more detail to show how you =
design the control plane hierarchically but the traffic can be =
transported horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the following =
graph:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
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src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D55441.A38ECD70"></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If, as you stated,=C2=A0 we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although =
we will not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you =
flood the link information hierarchically but let the traffic between =
the two connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>tony.li@tony.li<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> 2019</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>8</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>15</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 23:37<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Robert =
Raszuk<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> lsr@ietf.org; Aijun =
Wang<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
&quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi =
Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>&gt; The =
hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that the =
data plane is necessarily hierarchical.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Since =
Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but =
failed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>While it =
is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you have any =
pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane is non =
hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control plane =
used traverses multiple levels =
?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Consider any topology where two =
peer areas intersect. &nbsp;At the intersection, traffic can transition =
between the areas without entering the parent =
level.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should =
also point out that the existence of hierarchy for the control plane =
does not mandate its use. This is another tool in the toolbox. Use the =
right tool for the job at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Tony<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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From nobody Fri Aug 16 07:10:20 2019
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From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding
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Dear Tony Li, Peter Psenak, Les Ginsberg, Huaimo Chen, Tony Przygienda, Dave Cooper, Luay Jalil, Srinath Dontula:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Dynamic
Flooding on Dense Graphs" (draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding) was submitted to
the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3686/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat


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Subject: Re: [Lsr]  =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTFNSIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgQWRvcHRpb24g?= =?utf-8?q?Call_for_=22Hierarchical_IS-IS=22_-_draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchi?= =?utf-8?q?cal-isis-01?=
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Ajun:

=20

I=E2=80=99ll let Tony provide his answer to your question.   Let me =
provide an alternate topology that your example might fit into

=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence/>=
 draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt describes a problem with =
IGP convergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may be deployed in =
some 5G networks.  One way to solve the convergence problem is to =
provide an alternate fast convergence topology that uses hierarchy to =
provide shorter paths through the Grid portion of the grid-ring =
topology. =20

=20

Suppose in this topology, the regular IGP (ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 =
level hierarchy. =20

=20

The alternate fast convergence algorithm uses a multiple level hierarchy =
in order to provide faster convergence.   The multiple levels provide =
=E2=80=9Cshort-cut=E2=80=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in =
the Grid topology.  As discussions on this forum have indicated, the =
fast convergence topologies run in parallel with the normal IGP =
forwarding providing an alternate forwarding path.   If you would like =
me to explain how the hierarchy can provide faster convergence for a =
grid, I can provide that explanation to you (online or offline).   =20

=20

Forwarding on the node needs to handle the multiple IGP routes.  Since  =
the fast convergence topologies provide early notification of forwarding =
problems in the normal IGP, the forward processing in the nodes might =
check this alternate topology for unknown routes.   Other ways of =
merging the two forwarding RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.  =
Since (per your example) R1 and R7 since the this link would be known to =
the regular IGP, the traffic could flow over this path.=20

=20

I hope this helps=E2=80=A6=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

PS =E2=80=93 I would refresh the =
draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt, but the draft submission =
seems to have a problem this morning.  This draft is still a rough =
draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should update sections. =20

=20

=20

From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 2:48 AM
To: tony.li@tony.li; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

Hi, Tony:

=20

Would you like to elaborate this in more detail to show how you design =
the control plane hierarchically but the traffic can be transported =
horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the following graph:

=20



If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will =
not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the =
link information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two =
connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 tony.li@tony.li
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 =
23:37
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Robert Raszuk
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

=20

Hi Robert,

=20

=20

> The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that =
the data plane is necessarily hierarchical. =20

=20

Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but =
failed.=20

=20

While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you =
have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane =
is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control =
plane used traverses multiple levels ?=20

=20

=20

Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect.  At the =
intersection, traffic can transition between the areas without entering =
the parent level.

=20

While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also point out that the existence of =
hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate its use. This is =
another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the job at hand.

=20

Tony

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Ajun:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ll let Tony provide his answer =
to your question. =C2=A0=C2=A0Let me provide an alternate topology that =
your example might fit into<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-conver=
gence/"><span =
style=3D'color:#3D22B3;background:#F9F9F9;text-decoration:none'>draft-har=
es-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00</span></a>.txt describes a problem with =
IGP convergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may be deployed in =
some 5G networks.=C2=A0 </span><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>One way to solve the convergence problem =
is to provide an alternate fast convergence topology that uses hierarchy =
to provide shorter paths through the Grid portion of the grid-ring =
topology.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Suppose in this topology, the regular IGP =
(ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 level hierarchy.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The alternate fast convergence algorithm =
uses a multiple level hierarchy in order to provide faster =
convergence.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The multiple levels provide =
=E2=80=9Cshort-cut=E2=80=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in =
the Grid topology.=C2=A0 As discussions on this forum have indicated, =
the fast convergence topologies run in parallel with the normal IGP =
forwarding providing an alternate forwarding path.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you =
would like me to explain how the hierarchy can provide faster =
convergence for a grid, I can provide that explanation to you (online or =
offline). =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Forwarding on the node needs to handle the =
multiple IGP routes.=C2=A0 Since=C2=A0 the fast convergence topologies =
provide early notification of forwarding problems in the normal IGP, the =
forward processing in the nodes might check this alternate topology for =
unknown routes.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Other ways of merging the two forwarding =
RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.=C2=A0 Since (per your =
example) R1 and R7 since the this link would be known to the regular =
IGP, the traffic could flow over this path. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I hope this helps=E2=80=A6 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>PS =E2=80=93 I would refresh the =
draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt, but the draft submission =
seems to have a problem this morning. =C2=A0This draft is still a rough =
draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should update =
sections.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun =
Wang<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 16, 2019 2:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
tony.li@tony.li; 'Robert Raszuk'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: LSR =
Working Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi, Tony:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Would you like to elaborate this in more =
detail to show how you design the control plane hierarchically but the =
traffic can be transported horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the =
following graph:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><img border=3D0 width=3D488 height=3D341 =
id=3D"=E5=AF=B9=E8=B1=A1_x0020_1" =
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D55418.A71A61D0"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>If, as you stated,&nbsp; we connect R1 and =
R7 via one link(although we will not do so, if we design the network =
hierarchically), how you flood the link information hierarchically but =
let the traffic between the two connected L1 area bypass the L2 =
area?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span></b>tony.li@tony.li<br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:</b> 2019<span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E5=B9=B4</span>8<span lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=9C=88</span>15<span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=97=A5</span> 23:37<br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b> Robert =
Raszuk<br><b><span lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span>:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang<br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group =
Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi =
Robert,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>&gt; The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane =
does NOT imply that the data plane is necessarily =
hierarchical.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think =
of such model, but failed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols =
say BGP - do you have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture =
where data plane is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper =
levels) while control plane used traverses multiple levels =
?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Consider any topology where two =
peer areas intersect. &nbsp;At the intersection, traffic can transition =
between the areas without entering the parent =
level.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>While =
I<span lang=3DZH-CN>=E2=80=99</span>m at it, I should also point out =
that the existence of hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate =
its use. This is another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the =
job at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Tony<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></=
div></body></html>
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels
        Authors         : Anton Smirnov
                          Alvaro Retana
                          Michael Barnes
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2019-08-16

Abstract:
   When using Traffic Engineering (TE) in a dual-stack IPv4/IPv6
   network, the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) TE Label Switched
   Paths (LSP) infrastructure may be duplicated, even if the destination
   IPv4 and IPv6 addresses belong to the same remote router.  In order
   to achieve an integrated MPLS TE LSP infrastructure, OSPF routes must
   be computed over MPLS TE tunnels created using information propagated
   in another OSPF instance.  This issue is solved by advertising cross-
   address family (X-AF) OSPF TE information.

   This document describes an update to RFC5786 that allows for the easy
   identification of a router's local X-AF IP addresses.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Alvaro Retana <alvaro.retana@futurewei.com>
To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
CC: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Sender: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
References: <8BAFFDB4-62B0-4018-966E-6861D89D0BD1@cisco.com> <01a501d55338$945c2b40$bd1481c0$@org.cn> <C90AD13E-1512-4373-9CF7-32BAD6D65EC6@tony.li> <CAOj+MMFNkVbgbN1v7Q_4PBfLVN=Me_whcR36Um-Eu_AgSDF4Xg@mail.gmail.com> <24D935ED-28C3-4A84-B42C-E429EC2D6FE8@tony.li> <00b601d553fe$9636a5a0$c2a3f0e0$@org.cn>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hi Aijun,

> If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will =
not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the =
link information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two =
connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?


The link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either the top area or the =
bottom area.  R1 or R7 needs to participate in two areas and leak routes =
between the two areas.

Tony


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Aijun,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">If, as you =
stated,&nbsp; we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will not do =
so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the link =
information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two connected =
L1 area bypass the L2 area?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either the top area or the =
bottom area. &nbsp;R1 or R7 needs to participate in two areas and leak =
routes between the two areas.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Support.

> On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:33 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the "Hierarchic=
al IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:=
00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your support of objection on=
 this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Support.</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Aug 12, 2019, at 8:33 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href="mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">

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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate
 your support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>
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Sender: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
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To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hi Aijun,

Les kindly points out that what I=E2=80=99ve suggested here is =
completely non-standard and requires multiple IS-IS instances.

Tony



> On Aug 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>=20
> Hi Aijun,
>=20
>> If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we =
will not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood =
the link information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two =
connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?
>=20
>=20
> The link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either the top area or =
the bottom area.  R1 or R7 needs to participate in two areas and leak =
routes between the two areas.
>=20
> Tony
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_81543F53-7CA0-4EE7-B5DF-02C09A55980C
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Aijun,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Les kindly points out that what I=E2=80=99=
ve suggested here is completely non-standard and requires multiple IS-IS =
instances.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, <a =
href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" class=3D"">tony.li@tony.li</a> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi Aijun,<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">If, as you =
stated,&nbsp; we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will not do =
so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the link =
information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two connected =
L1 area bypass the L2 area?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either the top area or the =
bottom area. &nbsp;R1 or R7 needs to participate in two areas and leak =
routes between the two areas.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 21:16:32 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMGoqBS2jVCZrEsNs_+ymmjgwCDYd-dRBWaNGR_r9R71YA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/PWLsR8wix3MNRBOyfoME-7ahRNg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hey Les,

Of course the objective of the draft is clear and I do not think anyone is
questioning that. There was however topic of data and control plane
congruence requirement and I think we all agreed by now that this is rather
required in link state protocol as it is defined today.

As to the overall direction which I think initial Aijun's mail brought up
was if hierarchy is actually best answer to scale a protocol.

Divide and conquer is great strategy, but as such it could be realized with
flat levels interconnected by ISIS LSP reflectors as pure control plane
scaling solution (still reusing most of today's machinery - leaking,
summarization etc ...) Some form of DIS analogy except here to interconnect
many flat levels.

So I think the overall point to the WG is if building additional data and
control plane levels is the most optimal solution to scale link state
protocols up. Sure it can be done and it will be one more optional tool in
the toolbox, but is this the right/best tool for the job ?

Thx,
R.


On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 8:08 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> To expand on this a bit, the point of the draft extensions is to add
> additional levels of hierarchy and use existing mechanisms (leaking,
> summarization) to have traffic flow up/down the hierarchy.
>
> The intent is NOT to bypass the hierarchy.
>
>
>
> People can use multiple instances and redistribution to do whatever they
> may wish. In that context two instances of IS-IS are no different then on=
e
> instance of two different protocols.
>
> But this is decidedly NOT the intent of the draft.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li
> *Sent:* Friday, August 16, 2019 11:01 AM
> *To:* Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Robert Raszuk
> <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical
> IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
>
>
> Les kindly points out that what I=E2=80=99ve suggested here is completely
> non-standard and requires multiple IS-IS instances.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
>
>
> If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will no=
t
> do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the link
> information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two connected =
L1
> area bypass the L2 area?
>
>
>
>
>
> The link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either the top area or the
> bottom area.  R1 or R7 needs to participate in two areas and leak routes
> between the two areas.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>

--00000000000092219b059040d48a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Les,<div><br></div><div>Of course the objective of the=
 draft is clear and I do not think anyone is questioning that. There was ho=
wever topic of data and control plane congruence requirement and I think we=
 all agreed by now that this is rather required in link state protocol as i=
t is defined today.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>As to the overall direct=
ion which I think initial Aijun&#39;s mail brought up was if hierarchy is a=
ctually best answer to scale a protocol.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Div=
ide and conquer is great strategy, but as such it could be realized with fl=
at levels interconnected by ISIS LSP reflectors as pure control plane scali=
ng solution (still reusing most of today&#39;s machinery - leaking, summari=
zation etc ...) Some form of DIS analogy except here to interconnect many f=
lat levels.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>So I think the overall point to =
the WG is if building additional data and control plane levels is the most =
optimal solution to scale link state protocols up. Sure it can be done and =
it will be one more optional tool in the toolbox, but is this the right/bes=
t tool for the job ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div>=
<div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 8:08 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5653119968794658029WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">To expand on this a bit, the point of the draft exte=
nsions is to add additional levels of hierarchy and use existing mechanisms=
 (leaking, summarization) to have traffic flow up/down the hierarchy.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The intent is NOT to bypass the hierarchy.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">People can use multiple instances and redistribution=
 to do whatever they may wish. In that context two instances of IS-IS are n=
o different then one instance of two different protocols.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But this is decidedly NOT the intent of the draft.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>
<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a><br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 16, 2019 11:01 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tony Li &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank"=
>tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_=
blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarc=
hical IS-IS&quot; - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Aijun,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Les kindly points out that what I=E2=80=99ve suggest=
ed here is completely non-standard and requires multiple IS-IS instances.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Aug 16, 2019, at 9:03 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:tony.=
li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">
tony.li@tony.li</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Aijun,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">If, as you stated,=C2=A0 we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we wi=
ll not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the l=
ink information hierarchically but let the traffic
 between the two connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12pt;font-family:SimSun"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The link between R1 and R7 needs to belong to either=
 the top area or the bottom area.=C2=A0 R1 or R7 needs to participate in tw=
o areas and leak routes between the two areas.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--00000000000092219b059040d48a--


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Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-isis-te-app-06
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Acee Lindem has requested publication of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-06 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-te-app/


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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Restart Signaling for IS-IS
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Paul Wells
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-05.txt
	Pages           : 25
	Date            : 2019-08-16

Abstract:
   This document describes a mechanism for a restarting router to signal
   to its neighbors that it is restarting, allowing them to reestablish
   their adjacencies without cycling through the down state, while still
   correctly initiating database synchronization.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a router to
   signal its neighbors that it is preparing to initiate a restart while
   maintaining forwarding plane state.  This allows the neighbors to
   maintain their adjacencies until the router has restarted, but also
   allows the neighbors to bring the adjacencies down in the event of
   other topology changes.

   This document additionally describes a mechanism for a restarting
   router to determine when it has achieved Link State Protocol Data
   Unit (LSP) database synchronization with its neighbors and a
   mechanism to optimize LSP database synchronization, while minimizing
   transient routing disruption when a router starts.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5306.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis.all@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5306bis-04
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hi Robert,


> Of course the objective of the draft is clear and I do not think =
anyone is questioning that. There was however topic of data and control =
plane congruence requirement and I think we all agreed by now that this =
is rather required in link state protocol as it is defined today.=20
>=20
> As to the overall direction which I think initial Aijun's mail brought =
up was if hierarchy is actually best answer to scale a protocol.=20


It=E2=80=99s the best answer that we have today.


> Divide and conquer is great strategy, but as such it could be realized =
with flat levels interconnected by ISIS LSP reflectors as pure control =
plane scaling solution (still reusing most of today's machinery - =
leaking, summarization etc ...) Some form of DIS analogy except here to =
interconnect many flat levels.=20


If you have a number of areas all at a single level, you need to have =
some mechanism for computing paths between the areas.  You suggest =
=E2=80=98LSP reflectors=E2=80=99 which might suggest carrying all LSPs =
from one area and putting them into another area.  That approach has the =
same scalability properties as just running one single, giant area. I =
would not recommend this. =20

If I take a less literal interpretation of =E2=80=98LSP reflectors=E2=80=99=
, then you are performing summarization, not reflection, at area =
boundaries. If no further information about the inter-area topology is =
known, then this devolves to a distance-vector like approach, where =
summaries circulate between areas and cumulative metric information is =
used to select the optimal path.  Effectively, you=E2=80=99re running =
RIP for your level 2 protocol, with all of the benefits and deficiencies =
of RIP.

If you would like an incremental improvement, you could carry path =
information with your summaries, and perform a path vector based path =
selection.  Effectively, you=E2=80=99re running BGP as your level 2 =
protocol, with all of the benefits and deficiencies of BGP.

And, of course, if you would like to carry full topology information in =
level 2, you could have the properties of a link-state protocol at level =
2. IMHO, this is optimal at this time.

Now, if someone wants to come along and provide an entirely new concept =
in routing protocols, they could certainly do so, but we really =
haven=E2=80=99t made significant progress in this area for 25 years, so =
waiting would seem to well over everyone=E2=80=99s retirement event =
horizon.



> So I think the overall point to the WG is if building additional data =
and control plane levels is the most optimal solution to scale link =
state protocols up. Sure it can be done and it will be one more optional =
tool in the toolbox, but is this the right/best tool for the job ?=20


I submit that the question is largely irrelevant to the matter of =
working group adoption.  We are not obligated to select only the best, =
if only because that can change over time. Further, we have no other =
proposals on the table.  Our proposal is the natural and logical =
extension of the two-level hierarchy that was originally conceived for =
IS-IS. =46rom the perspective of getting to =E2=80=98running code=E2=80=99=
 it is the obvious choice because almost all of the code written for =
level 2 can be trivially abstracted for other levels. We have =
demonstrated significant working group interest already, so we should =
move forward so that we can enable people to use this tool if they =
choose to.

Regards,
Tony



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>> Nits:
>>=20
>> Section 3.2.3: The lettered paragraphs at the top of the section
>> begin with lower case letters, but the lettered paragraphs at the
>> top of the section begin with upper case letters.  Please be
>> consistent.
>>=20
> [Les:] Done

Cool.

>> Section 3.2.3: s/time after which the adjacency will now expire/
>>                /time after which the adjacency will expire/
>>=20
> [Les:] I left this unchanged.  The text is identical to text in =
Section 3.2.1 regarding the RA bit. The point of using "now expire" is =
to emphasize that the expiration time has been adjusted as a result of =
the RR/PR request.
> Hope this is OK with you.

Sure.  That makes sense.

>> Section 3.2.3 says:
>>=20
>>   ... It
>>   is therefore useful to signal a planned restart (if the forwarding
>>   plane on the restarting router is maintained) so that ...
>>=20
>> I suggest:
>>=20
>>   ... If
>>   the forwarding plane on the restarting router is maintained, it
>>   is useful to signal a planned restart so that ...
>=20
> [Les:] I rewrote this paragraph. The term "restart" has been defined =
in Section 2 to be associated with a control plane restart which =
involves maintenance of the forwarding plane - so some of the text was =
redundant.=20
> I hope the revised text is both more readable and more precise.

I just fetched the -05 version.  The revised paragraph looks good to me.

Russ


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Hi, Susan:
It seems better to introduce one new draft to introduce your =E2=80=9Cvirtua=
l topology=E2=80=9D solution, especially the control plane and forward plane=
 behavior, how it interact with the deployed level 1/2 solutions.

I think to improve the convergence performance in large network such as 5G/I=
P RAN network is one attractive topic but we need to select/make the solutio=
ns being deployed easily and smoothly.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Aug 16, 2019, at 22:23, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ajun:
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ll let Tony provide his answer to your question.   Let me provid=
e an alternate topology that your example might fit into
> =20
> draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt describes a problem with IGP c=
onvergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may be deployed in some 5G n=
etworks.  One way to solve the convergence problem is to provide an alternat=
e fast convergence topology that uses hierarchy to provide shorter paths thr=
ough the Grid portion of the grid-ring topology.=20
> =20
> Suppose in this topology, the regular IGP (ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 lev=
el hierarchy.=20
> =20
> The alternate fast convergence algorithm uses a multiple level hierarchy i=
n order to provide faster convergence.   The multiple levels provide =E2=80=9C=
short-cut=E2=80=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in the Grid topol=
ogy.  As discussions on this forum have indicated, the fast convergence topo=
logies run in parallel with the normal IGP forwarding providing an alternate=
 forwarding path.   If you would like me to explain how the hierarchy can pr=
ovide faster convergence for a grid, I can provide that explanation to you (=
online or offline).   =20
> =20
> Forwarding on the node needs to handle the multiple IGP routes.  Since  th=
e fast convergence topologies provide early notification of forwarding probl=
ems in the normal IGP, the forward processing in the nodes might check this a=
lternate topology for unknown routes.   Other ways of merging the two forwar=
ding RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.  Since (per your example) R1=
 and R7 since the this link would be known to the regular IGP, the traffic c=
ould flow over this path.
> =20
> I hope this helps=E2=80=A6
> =20
> Sue Hares
> =20
> PS =E2=80=93 I would refresh the draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.=
txt, but the draft submission seems to have a problem this morning.  This dr=
aft is still a rough draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should upda=
te sections.=20
> =20
> =20
> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 2:48 AM
> To: tony.li@tony.li; 'Robert Raszuk'
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hi=
erarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
> =20
> Hi, Tony:
> =20
> Would you like to elaborate this in more detail to show how you design the=
 control plane hierarchically but the traffic can be transported horizontall=
y? Let=E2=80=99s consider the following graph:
> =20
> <image001.png>
> If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will not=
 do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the link inf=
ormation hierarchically but let the traffic between the two connected L1 are=
a bypass the L2 area?
> =20
> =20
> Best Regards.
> =20
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf=
.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 tony.li@tony.li
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 2=
3:37
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Robert Raszuk
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarc=
hical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
> =20
> =20
> Hi Robert,
> =20
> =20
>=20
> > The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that th=
e data plane is necessarily hierarchical. =20
> =20
> Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but f=
ailed.=20
> =20
> While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you have a=
ny pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane is non hie=
rarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control plane used tra=
verses multiple levels ?=20
> =20
> =20
> Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect.  At the intersection=
, traffic can transition between the areas without entering the parent level=
.
> =20
> While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also point out that the existence of hie=
rarchy for the control plane does not mandate its use. This is another tool i=
n the toolbox. Use the right tool for the job at hand.
> =20
> Tony
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Susan:<div>It seems better to introduce=
 one new draft to introduce your =E2=80=9Cvirtual topology=E2=80=9D solution=
, especially the control plane and forward plane behavior, how it interact w=
ith the deployed level 1/2 solutions.</div><div><br></div><div>I think to im=
prove the convergence performance in large network such as 5G/IP RAN network=
 is one attractive topic but we need to select/make the solutions being depl=
oyed easily and smoothly.</div><div><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature" dir=3D=
"ltr">Aijun Wang<div>China Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 16=
, 2019, at 22:23, Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@=
ndzh.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D">Ajun:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1=
F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I=E2=80=
=99ll let Tony provide his answer to your question. &nbsp;&nbsp;Let me provi=
de an alternate topology that your example might fit into<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&q=
uot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;ser=
if&quot;"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-lsr-grid-r=
ing-convergence/"><span style=3D"color:#3D22B3;background:#F9F9F9;text-decor=
ation:none">draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00</span></a>.txt describe=
s a problem with IGP convergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may b=
e deployed in some 5G networks.&nbsp; </span><span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">One way to solve th=
e convergence problem is to provide an alternate fast convergence topology t=
hat uses hierarchy to provide shorter paths through the Grid portion of the g=
rid-ring topology.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F4=
97D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Suppose i=
n this topology, the regular IGP (ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 level hierarch=
y.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The alternate fast conv=
ergence algorithm uses a multiple level hierarchy in order to provide faster=
 convergence.&nbsp;&nbsp; The multiple levels provide =E2=80=9Cshort-cut=E2=80=
=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in the Grid topology.&nbsp; As d=
iscussions on this forum have indicated, the fast convergence topologies run=
 in parallel with the normal IGP forwarding providing an alternate forwardin=
g path.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you would like me to explain how the hierarchy can pr=
ovide faster convergence for a grid, I can provide that explanation to you (=
online or offline). &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&qu=
ot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F4=
97D">Forwarding on the node needs to handle the multiple IGP routes.&nbsp; S=
ince&nbsp; the fast convergence topologies provide early notification of for=
warding problems in the normal IGP, the forward processing in the nodes migh=
t check this alternate topology for unknown routes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Other ways o=
f merging the two forwarding RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.&nbsp=
; Since (per your example) R1 and R7 since the this link would be known to t=
he regular IGP, the traffic could flow over this path. <o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;;color:#1F497D">I hope this helps=E2=80=A6 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&q=
uot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quo=
t;;color:#1F497D">Sue Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:=
#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">PS =E2=
=80=93 I would refresh the draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt, but=
 the draft submission seems to have a problem this morning. &nbsp;This draft=
 is still a rough draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should update s=
ections.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border=
-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@=
ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun Wang<br=
><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 16, 2019 2:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>; 'Robert Raszuk'<br><b>Cc:</b> <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] </span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS UI Gothic&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: LSR Working Group Adop=
tion Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"=
>Hi, Tony:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F4=
97D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Would you like t=
o elaborate this in more detail to show how you design the control plane hie=
rarchically but the traffic can be transported horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s c=
onsider the following graph:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN=
">&lt;image001.png&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot=
;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">If, as you stated,&nbsp; we conn=
ect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will not do so, if we design the netw=
ork hierarchically), how you flood the link information hierarchically but l=
et the traffic between the two connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-f=
areast-language:ZH-CN">Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-langu=
age:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-=
align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Aijun Wa=
ng<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">China Telecom<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-lang=
uage:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0=
pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-=
CN">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=
 <a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D=
"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b><span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span></b><a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">=
tony.li@tony.li</a><br><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=
=97=B4</span>:</b> 2019<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span>8<span lang=3D"Z=
H-CN">=E6=9C=88</span>15<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span> 23:37<br><b><s=
pan lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b> Robert Raszuk<br>=
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr=
@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Aijun Wang<br><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=
=E9=A2=98</span>:</b> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarc=
hical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-=
fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Hi Robert,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-languag=
e:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-la=
nguage:ZH-CN">&gt; The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NO=
T imply that the data plane is necessarily hierarchical.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><=
span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language=
:ZH-CN">Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model,=
 but failed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;H=
elvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">While it i=
s easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you have any pointer t=
o a link state protocol architecture where data plane is non hierarchical (l=
inks do not belong to upper levels) while control plane used traverses multi=
ple levels ?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
</div></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:=
ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Consider any topology where two peer are=
as intersect. &nbsp;At the intersection, traffic can transition between the a=
reas without entering the parent level.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN">While I<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E2=80=99</span>m at it, I should=
 also point out that the existence of hierarchy for the control plane does n=
ot mandate its use. This is another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool f=
or the job at hand.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">Tony<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fa=
reast-language:ZH-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockq=
uote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>______________________=
_________________________</span><br><span>Lsr mailing list</span><br><span><=
a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-339EE090-34CE-4650-B1FB-8418DD666A81--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Link Traffic Engineering (TE) Attribute Reuse
        Authors         : Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-08.txt
	Pages           : 18
	Date            : 2019-08-19

Abstract:
   Various link attributes have been defined in OSPF in the context of
   the MPLS Traffic Engineering (TE) and GMPLS.  Many of these link
   attributes can be used for applications other than MPLS Traffic
   Engineering or GMPLS.  This document defines how to distribute such
   attributes in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 for applications other than MPLS
   Traffic Engineering or GMPLS.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Aug 19 07:03:32 2019
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Acee Lindem has requested publication of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-08 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 17:06:42 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMGEGW2fpydr+eeuDnT=9MNC90+4pGQQpgzDuCSv0yNpLw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/z1OBbkIes-A-FO1bZB4ovzK35cY>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Hi Huaimo,

Ad 1 - Let me observe that constructing hierarchy is not always driven by
number of nodes in a given level can safely support. One could indeed build
a global flat link state network in single level/area if only looking at
number of nodes. But in number of cases benefits from hierarchy could be
seen in reduced flooding radius and enforced summarization. Hint:  me why
my routers in Sydney have to be aware about link flap in POP in Toronto ?

Ad 6 - Interesting .. I asked the same question to authors offline :)

Thx,
R.




On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 4:27 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Support and have the following comments:
>
>
>
>    1. It seems not necessary to have 8 levels of hierarchies. 3 or at
>    most 4 levels of hierarchies should be enough. IS-IS with 3 levels of
>    hierarchies may support a network with 1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about =
10^9
>    =3D 1 billion nodes. IS-IS with 4 levels of hierarchies may support a =
network
>    with 1k*1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about 10^12 =3D 1 trillion nodes.
>    2. For PDU type, section 2.2 of the draft proposes to use 8 bits (all
>    three reserved bits plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). It see=
ms
>    better to use 6 bits (one reserved bit plus the 5 bits for the existin=
g PDU
>    type). Adding one reserved bit into the PDU Type allows people to defi=
ne 32
>    new PDU types, which is enough for the new PDU types needed for new
>    hierarchies.
>    3. Section 3 =E2=80=9CAdditional PDUs=E2=80=9D of the draft, defines 6=
 new PDU Types
>    for =E2=80=99Level n LAN IS to IS hello PDU=E2=80=99 (Ln-LAN-HELLO-PDU=
), where n is 3, 4,
>    5, 6, 7, and 8. In addition, the following new PDU Types should be def=
ined
>    (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies):
>       1. 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n LSP=E2=80=9D, wher=
e n is 3, and 4
>       2. 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n CSNP=E2=80=9D, whe=
re n is 3, and 4
>       3. 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n PSNP=E2=80=9D, whe=
re n is 3, and 4
>    4. On a broadcast interface, Level 1 LSPs are multicast through MAC
>    0x0180.c200.0014 (which is called AllL1ISs), and Level 2 LSPs are mult=
icast
>    through MAC 0x0180.c200.0015 (which is called AllL2ISs). It seems that
>    Level n LSPs should be multicast through AllLnISs, where n is 3, and 4
>    (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies), thus
>       1. 2 new MAC should be assigned to AllLnISs, where n is 3, and 4.
>    5. The existing DIS for a broadcast interface periodically multicast
>    through AllL1ISs and AllL2ISs a Complete SNP (CSNP). It seems that the=
 DIS
>    should be extended to periodically multicast a CSNP through AllLnISs, =
where
>    n is 1, 2, 3, and 4 (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies).
>    6. When there may be 3 or more levels of hierarchies, is it allowed to
>    have 3 or more levels (consecutive) configured on an interface? It see=
ms
>    that there is no description about this in the draft.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Monday, August 12, 2019 10:33 AM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS"
> - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
>
>
>
> This begins a two week LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the
> "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll
> will end at 12:00 AM UTC on August 27th, 2019. Please indicate your
> support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption poll.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0Huaimo,<div><br></div><div>Ad 1 - Let me observe t=
hat constructing hierarchy is not always driven by number of nodes in a giv=
en level can safely support. One could indeed build a global flat link stat=
e network in single level/area if only looking at number of nodes. But in n=
umber of cases benefits from hierarchy could be seen in reduced flooding ra=
dius and enforced summarization. Hint:=C2=A0 me why my routers in Sydney ha=
ve to be aware about link flap in POP in Toronto ?=C2=A0<br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Ad 6 - Interesting .. I asked the same question to authors offli=
ne :)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 4:27 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support and have the =
following comments:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style=3D=
"margin-left:0in">
It seems not necessary to have 8 levels of hierarchies. 3 or at most 4 leve=
ls of hierarchies should be enough. IS-IS with 3 levels of hierarchies may =
support a network with 1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about 10^9 =3D 1 billion no=
des. IS-IS with 4 levels of hierarchies
 may support a network with 1k*1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about 10^12 =3D 1 t=
rillion nodes.<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668Ms=
oListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:0in">
For PDU type, section 2.2 of the draft proposes to use 8 bits (all three re=
served bits plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). It seems better to =
use 6 bits (one reserved bit plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). Ad=
ding one reserved bit into the PDU
 Type allows people to define 32 new PDU types, which is enough for the new=
 PDU types needed for new hierarchies.<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail=
-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:0in"=
>
Section 3 =E2=80=9CAdditional PDUs=E2=80=9D of the draft, defines 6 new PDU=
 Types for =E2=80=99Level n LAN IS to IS hello PDU=E2=80=99 (Ln-LAN-HELLO-P=
DU), where n is 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. In addition, the following new PDU Ty=
pes should be defined (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies):
<u></u><u></u></li><ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=
=3D"margin-left:0in">
2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n LSP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, a=
nd 4<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParag=
raphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:0in">
2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n CSNP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, =
and 4<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListPara=
graphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:0in">
2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n PSNP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, =
and 4<u></u><u></u></li></ol>
<li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=
=3D"margin-left:0in">
On a broadcast interface, Level 1 LSPs are multicast through MAC 0x0180.c20=
0.0014 (which is called AllL1ISs), and Level 2 LSPs are multicast through M=
AC 0x0180.c200.0015 (which is called AllL2ISs). It seems that Level n LSPs =
should be multicast through AllLnISs,
 where n is 3, and 4 (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies), thus<u>=
</u><u></u></li><ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=
=3D"margin-left:0in">
2 new MAC should be assigned to AllLnISs, where n is 3, and 4.<u></u><u></u=
></li></ol>
<li class=3D"gmail-m_5429499422651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=
=3D"margin-left:0in">
The existing DIS for a broadcast interface periodically multicast through A=
llL1ISs and AllL2ISs a Complete SNP (CSNP). It seems that the DIS should be=
 extended to periodically multicast a CSNP through AllLnISs, where n is 1, =
2, 3, and 4 (considering at most
 4 levels of hierarchies).<u></u><u></u></li><li class=3D"gmail-m_542949942=
2651164668MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style=3D"margin-left:0in">
When there may be 3 or more levels of hierarchies, is it allowed to have 3 =
or more levels (consecutive) configured on an interface? It seems that ther=
e is no description about this in the draft.<u></u><u></u></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Best Regards,<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Huaimo<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 12, 2019 10:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchica=
l IS-IS&quot; - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a two wee=
k LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for the &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01. The poll will end at 12:00 AM UTC o=
n August 27<sup>th</sup>, 2019. Please indicate
 your support of objection on this list prior to the end of the adoption po=
ll.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Acee<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Hi Huaimo,


> Support and have the following comments:


Thank you for your support and comments.

> It seems not necessary to have 8 levels of hierarchies. 3 or at most 4 =
levels of hierarchies should be enough. IS-IS with 3 levels of =
hierarchies may support a network with 1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about =
10^9 =3D 1 billion nodes. IS-IS with 4 levels of hierarchies may support =
a network with 1k*1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about 10^12 =3D 1 trillion =
nodes.


This is correct.  It=E2=80=99s not absolutely necessary. However, as =
Robert mentioned, it does give the network designer flexibility to =
create the hierarchy that matches the needs of his network.  The cost of =
the additional levels is very small, given that we=E2=80=99re =
considering adding any levels at all, so it seemed sensible to define =
all of the levels at once.

=E2=80=9C=46rom an architectural point of view, if a number isn=E2=80=99t =
obviously too large, then it=E2=80=99s probably too small.=E2=80=9D  =E2=80=
=94 Ross Callon


> For PDU type, section 2.2 of the draft proposes to use 8 bits (all =
three reserved bits plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). It seems =
better to use 6 bits (one reserved bit plus the 5 bits for the existing =
PDU type). Adding one reserved bit into the PDU Type allows people to =
define 32 new PDU types, which is enough for the new PDU types needed =
for new hierarchies.


Agreed, it=E2=80=99s more than necessary.  Since we=E2=80=99re opening =
the issue, it seemed useful to make use of the space.

> Section 3 =E2=80=9CAdditional PDUs=E2=80=9D of the draft, defines 6 =
new PDU Types for =E2=80=99Level n LAN IS to IS hello PDU=E2=80=99 =
(Ln-LAN-HELLO-PDU), where n is 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. In addition, the =
following new PDU Types should be defined (considering at most 4 levels =
of hierarchies):
> 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n LSP=E2=80=9D, where n is =
3, and 4
> 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n CSNP=E2=80=9D, where n =
is 3, and 4
> 2 new PDU Types for =E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n PSNP=E2=80=9D, where n =
is 3, and 4


That's a natural consequence of your first point.


> On a broadcast interface, Level 1 LSPs are multicast through MAC =
0x0180.c200.0014 (which is called AllL1ISs), and Level 2 LSPs are =
multicast through MAC 0x0180.c200.0015 (which is called AllL2ISs). It =
seems that Level n LSPs should be multicast through AllLnISs, where n is =
3, and 4 (considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies), thus 2 new MAC =
should be assigned to AllLnISs, where n is 3, and 4.


Good point, thank you, yes, we overlooked that.


> The existing DIS for a broadcast interface periodically multicast =
through AllL1ISs and AllL2ISs a Complete SNP (CSNP). It seems that the =
DIS should be extended to periodically multicast a CSNP through =
AllLnISs, where n is 1, 2, 3, and 4 (considering at most 4 levels of =
hierarchies).


Agreed, but we were not planning on being explicit about restating all =
of the rules for each level.  We should be more explicit and say that =
all behaviors of level 2 are replicated upwards.


> When there may be 3 or more levels of hierarchies, is it allowed to =
have 3 or more levels (consecutive) configured on an interface? It seems =
that there is no description about this in the draft.



This was intentionally not precluded and thus supported.  Again please =
note that as are only defining the behavior for contiguous levels at =
this time.

Tony


--Apple-Mail=_0F74C712-FD8C-4758-BF90-760D8C588B24
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Huaimo,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">Support and have the following =
comments:</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div>Thank you for your support =
and comments.</div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">It seems not necessary to have 8 levels of =
hierarchies. 3 or at most 4 levels of hierarchies should be enough. =
IS-IS with 3 levels of hierarchies may support a network with 1k*1k*1k =
nodes, which is about 10^9 =3D 1 billion nodes. IS-IS with 4 levels of =
hierarchies may support a network with 1k*1k*1k*1k nodes, which is about =
10^12 =3D 1 trillion nodes.</span></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This is correct. =
&nbsp;It=E2=80=99s not absolutely necessary. However, as Robert =
mentioned, it does give the network designer flexibility to create the =
hierarchy that matches the needs of his network. &nbsp;The cost of the =
additional levels is very small, given that we=E2=80=99re considering =
adding any levels at all, so it seemed sensible to define all of the =
levels at once.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>=E2=80=9C=46rom an =
architectural point of view, if a number isn=E2=80=99t obviously too =
large, then it=E2=80=99s probably too small.=E2=80=9D &nbsp;=E2=80=94 =
Ross Callon</div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">For PDU type, =
section 2.2 of the draft proposes to use 8 bits (all three reserved bits =
plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). It seems better to use 6 =
bits (one reserved bit plus the 5 bits for the existing PDU type). =
Adding one reserved bit into the PDU Type allows people to define 32 new =
PDU types, which is enough for the new PDU types needed for new =
hierarchies.</span></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Agreed, it=E2=80=99s more than necessary. =
&nbsp;Since we=E2=80=99re opening the issue, it seemed useful to make =
use of the space.</div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">Section 3 =E2=80=9CAdditional PDUs=E2=80=9D of =
the draft, defines 6 new PDU Types for =E2=80=99Level n LAN IS to IS =
hello PDU=E2=80=99 (Ln-LAN-HELLO-PDU), where n is 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. =
In addition, the following new PDU Types should be defined (considering =
at most 4 levels of hierarchies):</span></blockquote></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1" style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; =
margin-top: 0in;" class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"a" style=3D"margin-bottom: =
0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=3D""><li class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">2 new PDU Types for =
=E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n LSP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, and 4<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">2 new PDU Types for =
=E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n CSNP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, and 4<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 15.546667098999023px; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">2 new PDU Types for =
=E2=80=98=E2=80=99Level n PSNP=E2=80=9D, where n is 3, and =
4</li></ol></ol></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>That's a natural consequence of your first =
point.</div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">On a broadcast interface, Level 1 LSPs are =
multicast through MAC 0x0180.c200.0014 (which is called AllL1ISs), and =
Level 2 LSPs are multicast through MAC 0x0180.c200.0015 (which is called =
AllL2ISs). It seems that Level n LSPs should be multicast through =
AllLnISs, where n is 3, and 4 (considering at most 4 levels of =
hierarchies), thus&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">2 =
new MAC should be assigned to AllLnISs, where n is 3, and =
4.</span></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Good point, thank you, yes, we overlooked =
that.</div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">The existing DIS for a broadcast interface =
periodically multicast through AllL1ISs and AllL2ISs a Complete SNP =
(CSNP). It seems that the DIS should be extended to periodically =
multicast a CSNP through AllLnISs, where n is 1, 2, 3, and 4 =
(considering at most 4 levels of hierarchies).</span></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Agreed, but we were not =
planning on being explicit about restating all of the rules for each =
level. &nbsp;We should be more explicit and say that all behaviors of =
level 2 are replicated upwards.</div><div><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
11pt; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"">When there may be 3 or more =
levels of hierarchies, is it allowed to have 3 or more levels =
(consecutive) configured on an interface? It seems that there is no =
description about this in the draft.</span></blockquote></div><div><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div></div></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This was intentionally =
not precluded and thus supported. &nbsp;Again please note that as are =
only defining the behavior for contiguous levels at this time.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_0F74C712-FD8C-4758-BF90-760D8C588B24--


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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just two quick questions about references:

- Is there no reference for mtu-ignore (see section 2.4)? If not, can you
further describe what exactly would be disabled?

- Also is there no reference for OSPF Non-Stop Routing (NSR) (see section
2.4)...?

And one more comment:

In the interface-common-config part (p76 and p77) you provide example or
default values for various intervals and delays. Where does those values come
from? Would it be possible to provide a reference/RFC that specifies actual
default values? Especially when you specify something normatively ("The value
MUST be greater than 'hello-interval'.") it would be good to provide a
reference!  Do any specification maybe also specify min and max value? If so,
you should mention them here as well! If not would it make sense to recommend
min and max values? If possible I would strongly support to describe min and
max values as well!



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Aijun:

=20

It is certainly useful to introduce a new draft for a virtual topology =
solution for 5G/IPRAN topologies.   However, I awaited two things prior =
to releasing that draft:  a) additional feedback on the problem =
statement from some key people and b) the hierarchical ISIS adoption.=20

=20

As to virtual topologies =E2=80=A6 As you indicated virtual topologies =
are carried in IGPs MT-ISIS (RFC5120).   These virtual topologies could =
utilize the hierarchical ISIS extension.   These virtual topologies =
could also use the alternate fast convergence algorithms.   =20

=20

I noticed that MT-ISIS MT IDs #3996-4096 are development, experimental, =
and proprietary features.  Perhaps deployment of the hierarchy for =
MT-ISIS might prove an good way for a network operations staff to get =
confidence that the hierarchy does not have an operational problem.     =
Alternatively,  you could define a standard MT topology which specific =
rules for hierarchical MT-ISIS.  Are you suggesting an standard MT =
topology be defined for hierarchical  ISIS?     =20

=20

Susan Hares=20

=20

From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 5:29 AM
To: Susan Hares
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; tony.li@tony.li; Robert Raszuk
Subject: Re: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: LSR Working Group Adoption Call =
for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

Hi, Susan:

It seems better to introduce one new draft to introduce your =
=E2=80=9Cvirtual topology=E2=80=9D solution, especially the control =
plane and forward plane behavior, how it interact with the deployed =
level 1/2 solutions.

=20

I think to improve the convergence performance in large network such as =
5G/IP RAN network is one attractive topic but we need to select/make the =
solutions being deployed easily and smoothly.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom


On Aug 16, 2019, at 22:23, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote:

Ajun:

=20

I=E2=80=99ll let Tony provide his answer to your question.   Let me =
provide an alternate topology that your example might fit into

=20

 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence/>=
 draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt describes a problem with =
IGP convergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may be deployed in =
some 5G networks.  One way to solve the convergence problem is to =
provide an alternate fast convergence topology that uses hierarchy to =
provide shorter paths through the Grid portion of the grid-ring =
topology. =20

=20

Suppose in this topology, the regular IGP (ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 =
level hierarchy. =20

=20

The alternate fast convergence algorithm uses a multiple level hierarchy =
in order to provide faster convergence.   The multiple levels provide =
=E2=80=9Cshort-cut=E2=80=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in =
the Grid topology.  As discussions on this forum have indicated, the =
fast convergence topologies run in parallel with the normal IGP =
forwarding providing an alternate forwarding path.   If you would like =
me to explain how the hierarchy can provide faster convergence for a =
grid, I can provide that explanation to you (online or offline).   =20

=20

Forwarding on the node needs to handle the multiple IGP routes.  Since  =
the fast convergence topologies provide early notification of forwarding =
problems in the normal IGP, the forward processing in the nodes might =
check this alternate topology for unknown routes.   Other ways of =
merging the two forwarding RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.  =
Since (per your example) R1 and R7 since the this link would be known to =
the regular IGP, the traffic could flow over this path.=20

=20

I hope this helps=E2=80=A6=20

=20

Sue Hares=20

=20

PS =E2=80=93 I would refresh the =
draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt, but the draft submission =
seems to have a problem this morning.  This draft is still a rough =
draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should update sections. =20

=20

=20

From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 2:48 AM
To: tony.li@tony.li; 'Robert Raszuk'
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

Hi, Tony:

=20

Would you like to elaborate this in more detail to show how you design =
the control plane hierarchically but the traffic can be transported =
horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the following graph:

=20

<image001.png>

If, as you stated,  we connect R1 and R7 via one link(although we will =
not do so, if we design the network hierarchically), how you flood the =
link information hierarchically but let the traffic between the two =
connected L1 area bypass the L2 area?

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 tony.li@tony.li
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 =
23:37
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Robert Raszuk
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for =
"Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01

=20

=20

Hi Robert,

=20

=20

> The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply that =
the data plane is necessarily hierarchical. =20

=20

Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think of such model, but =
failed.=20

=20

While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols say BGP - do you =
have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture where data plane =
is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper levels) while control =
plane used traverses multiple levels ?=20

=20

=20

Consider any topology where two peer areas intersect.  At the =
intersection, traffic can transition between the areas without entering =
the parent level.

=20

While I=E2=80=99m at it, I should also point out that the existence of =
hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate its use. This is =
another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the job at hand.

=20

Tony

=20

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Aijun:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It is certainly useful to introduce a new draft for a virtual =
topology solution for 5G/IPRAN topologies.=C2=A0=C2=A0 However, I =
awaited two things prior to releasing that draft:=C2=A0 a) additional =
feedback on the problem statement from some key people and b) the =
hierarchical ISIS adoption. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As to virtual topologies =E2=80=A6 As you indicated virtual =
topologies are carried in IGPs MT-ISIS (RFC5120).=C2=A0=C2=A0 These =
virtual topologies could utilize the hierarchical ISIS =
extension.=C2=A0=C2=A0 These virtual topologies could also use the =
alternate fast convergence algorithms.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I noticed that MT-ISIS MT IDs #3996-4096 are development, =
experimental, and proprietary features. =C2=A0Perhaps deployment of the =
hierarchy for MT-ISIS might prove an good way for a network operations =
staff to get confidence that the hierarchy does not have an operational =
problem.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Alternatively, =C2=A0you could define a =
standard MT topology which specific rules for hierarchical MT-ISIS. =
=C2=A0Are you suggesting an standard MT topology be defined for =
hierarchical =C2=A0ISIS? =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Susan Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun =
Wang<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 19, 2019 5:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan =
Hares<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org; tony.li@tony.li; Robert =
Raszuk<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: LSR =
Working Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi, =
Susan:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>It seems better to =
introduce one new draft to introduce your =E2=80=9Cvirtual =
topology=E2=80=9D solution, especially the control plane and forward =
plane behavior, how it interact with the deployed level 1/2 =
solutions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
think to improve the convergence performance in large network such as =
5G/IP RAN network is one attractive topic but we need to select/make the =
solutions being deployed easily and =
smoothly.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div id=3DAppleMailSignature><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>China Telecom<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Aug 16, 2019, at =
22:23, Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Ajun:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ll let Tony provide his answer =
to your question. &nbsp;&nbsp;Let me provide an alternate topology that =
your example might fit into</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-conver=
gence/"><span =
style=3D'color:#3D22B3;background:#F9F9F9;text-decoration:none'>draft-har=
es-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00</span></a>.txt describes a problem with =
IGP convergence for the grid-ring phone topology that may be deployed in =
some 5G networks.&nbsp; <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>One way to solve =
the convergence problem is to provide an alternate fast convergence =
topology that uses hierarchy to provide shorter paths through the Grid =
portion of the grid-ring topology.&nbsp; </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Suppose in this topology, the regular IGP =
(ISIS) algorithm keeps the 2 level hierarchy.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>The alternate fast convergence algorithm =
uses a multiple level hierarchy in order to provide faster =
convergence.&nbsp;&nbsp; The multiple levels provide =
=E2=80=9Cshort-cut=E2=80=9D paths for the IGP in a virtual topology in =
the Grid topology.&nbsp; As discussions on this forum have indicated, =
the fast convergence topologies run in parallel with the normal IGP =
forwarding providing an alternate forwarding path.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you =
would like me to explain how the hierarchy can provide faster =
convergence for a grid, I can provide that explanation to you (online or =
offline). &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Forwarding on the node needs to handle the =
multiple IGP routes.&nbsp; Since&nbsp; the fast convergence topologies =
provide early notification of forwarding problems in the normal IGP, the =
forward processing in the nodes might check this alternate topology for =
unknown routes.&nbsp; &nbsp;Other ways of merging the two forwarding =
RIBs generated by the two IGPs also exist.&nbsp; Since (per your =
example) R1 and R7 since the this link would be known to the regular =
IGP, the traffic could flow over this path. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I hope this helps=E2=80=A6 =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Sue Hares </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>PS =E2=80=93 I would refresh the =
draft-hares-lsr-grid-ring-convergence-00.txt, but the draft submission =
seems to have a problem this morning. &nbsp;This draft is still a rough =
draft. Some feedback I received indicates I should update =
sections.&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Lsr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun Wang<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 16, 2019 =
2:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>; 'Robert =
Raszuk'<br><b>Cc:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS UI =
Gothic","sans-serif"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: LSR =
Working Group Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi, Tony:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Would you like to elaborate this in more =
detail to show how you design the control plane hierarchically but the =
traffic can be transported horizontally? Let=E2=80=99s consider the =
following graph:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&lt;image001.png&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>If, as you stated,&nbsp; we connect R1 and =
R7 via one link(although we will not do so, if we design the network =
hierarchically), how you flood the link information hierarchically but =
let the traffic between the two connected L1 area bypass the L2 =
area?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Best Regards.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Aijun Wang</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>China Telecom</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DZH-CN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b><span lang=3DZH-CN>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span></b><a =
href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a><br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:</b> 2019<span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E5=B9=B4</span>8<span lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=9C=88</span>15<span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=97=A5</span> 23:37<br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b> Robert =
Raszuk<br><b><span lang=3DZH-CN>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span>:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Aijun Wang<br><b><span =
lang=3DZH-CN>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b> Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group =
Adoption Call for &quot;Hierarchical IS-IS&quot; - =
draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi =
Robert,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'=
>&gt; The hierarchical arrangement of the control plane does NOT imply =
that the data plane is necessarily =
hierarchical.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>Since Aijun posted his question I was trying to think =
of such model, but failed.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";mso-fareas=
t-language:ZH-CN'>While it is easy to envision this with DV protocols =
say BGP - do you have any pointer to a link state protocol architecture =
where data plane is non hierarchical (links do not belong to upper =
levels) while control plane used traverses multiple levels =
?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Consider any topology where two =
peer areas intersect. &nbsp;At the intersection, traffic can transition =
between the areas without entering the parent =
level.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>While =
I<span lang=3DZH-CN>=E2=80=99</span>m at it, I should also point out =
that the existence of hierarchy for the control plane does not mandate =
its use. This is another tool in the toolbox. Use the right tool for the =
job at hand.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Tony</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></=
div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Lsr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0113_01D55698.70691410--


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr]  =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?utf-8?q?etf-ospf-yang-26=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?=
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Hi Acee,

Thanks for these changes/additions.

One comment below.

> On 20. Aug 2019, at 17:05, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Mirja,=20
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 8/19/19, 12:25 PM, "Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker" =
<noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
>    Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
>    draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: No Objection
>=20
>    When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to =
all
>    email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
>    introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
>    Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>    for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
>    The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>=20
>=20
>=20
>    =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    COMMENT:
>    =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>    Just two quick questions about references:
>=20
>    - Is there no reference for mtu-ignore (see section 2.4)? If not, =
can you
>    further describe what exactly would be disabled?
>=20
> I added "specified in section 10.6 of [RFC2328]." to the sentence.=20
>=20
>=20
>    - Also is there no reference for OSPF Non-Stop Routing (NSR) (see =
section
>    2.4)...?
>=20
> While many vendors have implemented this feature, there is no standard =
as the goal is to restart without other OSPF routers being impacted. We =
did add the additional text to describe the feature and differences with =
OSPF Graceful Restart.=20
>=20
>    And one more comment:
>=20
>    In the interface-common-config part (p76 and p77) you provide =
example or
>    default values for various intervals and delays. Where does those =
values come
>    from? Would it be possible to provide a reference/RFC that =
specifies actual
>    default values? Especially when you specify something normatively =
("The value
>    MUST be greater than 'hello-interval'.") it would be good to =
provide a
>    reference!  Do any specification maybe also specify min and max =
value? If so,
>    you should mention them here as well! If not would it make sense to =
recommend
>    min and max values? If possible I would strongly support to =
describe min and
>    max values as well!
>=20
> The whole question of defaults generated quite a lot of discussion as =
there isn't really any one-size-fits all default and the sample values =
are very conservative. This is how we ended up with sample values in the =
text rather than YANG defaults. Since the protocol specification =
doesn=E2=80=99t specify min and max values, we were hesitant to specify =
them in the YANG model more than 20 years later. Also, many vendors have =
supported sub-second hellos. This wasn't a good idea and it has been =
supplanted by BFD. I will add RFC 2328 Appendix C as a reference for the =
sample values.=20

Good to hear that this was discussed! I understand the problem and a =
YANG is not the right place to =E2=80=9Cchange=E2=80=9D the spec. Adding =
a reference would be good!

One more question regarding the sentence with normative language above: =
Is that already specified in some other spec and it would make sense to =
not use normative language here but provide the reference?=20

Mirja



>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Qin Wu'" <bill.wu@huawei.com>, <pce@ietf.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 17:39:42 +0100
Organization: Old Dog Consulting
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/uh8N7OlDIq3xYEOVv3J2Su6bfa8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Solicit feedback on draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-01
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Hi Qin,

I didn't see any response to this email, so I thought I should chip in with
some (old, old, old) memories and context.

tl;dr I am generally supportive of this work, but I think a little
fine-tuning is needed.

If I recall correctly, the situation when 5088 and 5089 were produced was
that there was mission creep. The initial idea was to discover the existence
of PCE-capable routers in the network, but it was quickly realised a
specific address might be preferable for reaching the PCE, so there was need
for the PCE Discovery TLV to contain an address, and it was decided to
encode it as a TLV. Then the rot set in and we determined there were some
other useful pieces of information to encode. And then we thought that it
would be helpful to have an array of capability bits.

At this point the IGP working groups started to get worried. As Les and Acee
noted, the concern was that we would be carrying "large" amounts of data in
the IGP that was not directly related to the primary purpose of the IGP
(packet routing) or even the secondary purpose (TE). We had a bit of a fight
on our hands at this stage because the PCE implementers had already built
stuff, and the IGP "purists" were digging in. So we agreed to stabilise with
"this far and no further" and the lines in 5088/9 that say:
   No additional sub-TLVs will be added to the PCED TLV in the future.
   If a future application requires the advertisement of additional PCE
   information in OSPF, this will not be carried in the Router
   Information LSA.
The idea was that it would be OK to define new capability bits, but not to
add more TLVs.

I don't recall being delighted by this outcome at the time, but it certainly
allowed us to move forward. It seemed to me that PCEs were not the only
devices exchanging non-routing information in the IGP, and if there was a
concern about volume of data or convergence time, then this seemed a bigger
problem that needed a more general resolution. On the other hand, IETF
consensus is what it is.

The approach that others have taken in this situation is to add flags as
needed, but to put the additional discovery information in the PCEP Open
message. Thus, at a high level, a PCC can decide whether there is any point
in opening a PCEP session with a PCE, but may have to try the session to
find out exactly what options are available and might, at that time,
discover that the PCE is not suitable.

Looking at your draft, the addition of the two bit flags is easy and
uncontroversial. 

It is the addition of the Key-ID and Key-Chain-Name sub-TLVs that cause you
to want to change the RFCs. And I think you have a special case here because
using the TCP security mechanism, the PCEP Open message would come too late
to exchange the relevant information. That is, you need the security
information to set up the secure TCP session before the PCEP Open messages
can be exchanged.

This point could usefully be made more clear in the document. That is, why
you cannot use the alternate mechanism for exchanging PCE characteristics
and capabilities. After that has been done, I think that it would be
reasonable to allow the approach you are describing subject to LSR WG
consensus. (The alternative, which is perfectly acceptable within the
architecture and within some operational environments, is configuration. But
configuration doesn't work in the larger use cases, and another mechanism
would constitute a third way of exchanging PCE information, and that sounds
ridiculous.)

However, while I think that you should be allowed through the doorway, I
don't think you should leave the door open behind you. That means that you
should update 5088/9 to allow your new sub-TLVs, but you should leave in
place the ruling that no more new sub-TLVs are allowed. I *think* that is
what you're trying to do, but I don't think your Section 4 is the right way
to do that - it is not necessary to make edits to the old documents to make
this change, you can simply say... 
Section 4 of [RFC5088] states that no new sub-TLVs will be added to the PCED
TLV, and no new PCE information will be carried in the Router Information
LSA. This document updates RFC 5088 by allowing the two new sub-TLVs defined
in this document to be carried in the PCED TLV of the for use in the Router
Information LSA.
Section 4 of [RFC5089] states that no new sub-TLVs will be added to the PCED
TLV, and no new PCE information will be carried in the Router CAPABLITY TLV.
This document updates RFC 5089 by allowing the two new sub-TLVs defined in
this document to be carried in the PCED TLV of the for use in the Router
CAPABILITY TLV.

Along the way, we're also going to need to do some work on Section 7. The
whole point of your draft is to exchange information about security
features, and that makes it highly sensitive if it can be attacked. For
example, just toggling the two new capability bits can be a downgrade
attack. And tweaking the content of the new TLVs would, I imagine, enable
man-in-the-middle attacks. At the least, I think you have to use "MUST" to
insist that the IGP is protected for authentication and integrity of the
PCED TLV if the mechanism described in your draft is used. And I think you
should try to describe some of the risks.

I'm not sure how sensitive the new TLVs are to snooping, but you should note
that section 8 of RFC 5088/9 points out that "OSPF/IS-IS provides no
encryption mechanism for protecting the privacy of LSAs" and that if access
to this information can make the secure TCP session any less secure then the
approach is at risk.

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: 04 June 2019 05:18
To: pce@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] Solicit feeback on
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support-01

Hi, Folks:
Draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support was adopted by LSR WG in
December 2018 due to security importance for routing protocol.
Julien shared his comments and also help look for comments and feedback from
PCE WG on this draft during poll adoption call in LSR WG.
Recently we made a quick update to
draft-ietf-lsr-pce-discovery-security-support without technical content
changes.
We would like to solicit comments and feedback again on this draft. Thanks
in advance!

-Qin


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From nobody Wed Aug 21 04:42:06 2019
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From: Kathleen Moriarty via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 04:42:04 -0700
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Subject: [Lsr] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07
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Reviewer: Kathleen Moriarty
Review result: Has Nits

I apologize for the very late review.  I see you are already working on Roman's
discuss, so perhaps this nit could be addressed still.

In the security considerations section, the following text is included:

   As such, no new
   security threats are introduced beyond the considerations in OSPFv2
   [RFC2328], OSPFv3 [RFC5340], and [RFC5786].

However, new considerations follow and as such, the above statement isn't
entirely accurate.  I do agree that no security is provided in these protocols,
and that is not new, but new information is exposed.  Perhaps saying additional
considerations follow would be better than saying "no new security threats are
introduced".

Thank you,
Kathleen


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From nobody Wed Aug 21 06:29:36 2019
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From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, stephane.litkowski@orange.com, lsr@ietf.org
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Subject: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Per the Gen-ART review, I think 2.3 may be a little clearer if it were to say
"The field 'version' is used to indicate the OSPF LSA version and is mandatory."

I did not review this entire document but I'm balloting based on the Gen-ART
review.



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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:07 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi. Kathleen,
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 8/21/19, 7:42 AM, "Kathleen Moriarty via Datatracker" <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>     Reviewer: Kathleen Moriarty
>     Review result: Has Nits
>
>     I apologize for the very late review.  I see you are already working
> on Roman's
>     discuss, so perhaps this nit could be addressed still.
>
>     In the security considerations section, the following text is include=
d:
>
>        As such, no new
>        security threats are introduced beyond the considerations in OSPFv=
2
>        [RFC2328], OSPFv3 [RFC5340], and [RFC5786].
>
>     However, new considerations follow and as such, the above statement
> isn't
>     entirely accurate.  I do agree that no security is provided in these
> protocols,
>     and that is not new, but new information is exposed.  Perhaps saying
> additional
>     considerations follow would be better than saying "no new security
> threats are
>     introduced".
>
> As document shepherd and LSR WG Co-Chair, I disagree. There is no new
> information exposed. This draft simply enables the TE endpoints from both
> IPv4 and IPv6 to be advertised in either OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 rather than
> relegating advertisement of IPv4 TE information to OSPFv2 and IPv6 TE
> information to OSPFv3. If anything, it improves security by reducing the
> surface area for attacks to a single protocol rather than both protocols.
>
> I won't fight it and it is really too late, but I dislike the sentence
especially when used on a protocol with no security properties.  If someone
doesn't realize the current state and overall lack of security, this
sentence doesn't help.

Best regards,
Kathleen


> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>     Thank you,
>     Kathleen
>
>
>
>

--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen

--0000000000009d067a0590a09175
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 8:07 AM Acee =
Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi. Kathl=
een, <br>
<br>
=EF=BB=BFOn 8/21/19, 7:42 AM, &quot;Kathleen Moriarty via Datatracker&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf.org=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Reviewer: Kathleen Moriarty<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Review result: Has Nits<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I apologize for the very late review.=C2=A0 I see you are alr=
eady working on Roman&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discuss, so perhaps this nit could be addressed still.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the security considerations section, the following text is=
 included:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As such, no new<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0security threats are introduced beyond the consi=
derations in OSPFv2<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2328], OSPFv3 [RFC5340], and [RFC5786].<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, new considerations follow and as such, the above sta=
tement isn&#39;t<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 entirely accurate.=C2=A0 I do agree that no security is provi=
ded in these protocols,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and that is not new, but new information is exposed.=C2=A0 Pe=
rhaps saying additional<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 considerations follow would be better than saying &quot;no ne=
w security threats are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 introduced&quot;.<br>
<br>
As document shepherd and LSR WG Co-Chair, I disagree. There is no new infor=
mation exposed. This draft simply enables the TE endpoints from both IPv4 a=
nd IPv6 to be advertised in either OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 rather than relegating =
advertisement of IPv4 TE information to OSPFv2 and IPv6 TE information to O=
SPFv3. If anything, it improves security by reducing the surface area for a=
ttacks to a single protocol rather than both protocols. <br>
<br></blockquote><div>I won&#39;t fight it and it is really too late, but I=
 dislike the sentence especially when used on a protocol with no security p=
roperties.=C2=A0 If someone doesn&#39;t realize the current state and overa=
ll lack of security, this sentence doesn&#39;t help.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Thanks,<br>
Acee<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kathleen<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><di=
v>Kathleen</div></div></div></div>

--0000000000009d067a0590a09175--


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[It looks like the datatracker didn=E2=80=99t send out the text to Roman=E2=
=80=99s
DISCUSS.  I didn=E2=80=99t receive it, nor do I see it in the mail archive.=
  So I=E2=80=99m
pasting it here. =E2=80=94 Alvaro.]

- - - - - - - - - - -
DISCUSS
- - - - - - - - - - -

A =E2=80=9Cdiscuss to discuss=E2=80=9D.  Per the convention outlined in
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines, thank you for
clearly noting the implication of not securing these nodes properly.

Furthermore, following the convention, I would have expected Section 4 to
have enumerated the sensitive writeable/creatable/deletable data nodes; and
the sensitive readable nodes individually.  For a model this large, I can
imagine that individual enumeration would be a long list.

In the case of read operations, the text opens with saying that =E2=80=9Cso=
me of
the readable data nodes ...=E2=80=9D and later says =E2=80=9CThe exposure o=
f the ... LSDB
will expose the detailed topology ...=E2=80=9D.  Can you help me understand=
 which
part of ietf-ospf.yang is the LSDB and which parts refer to =E2=80=9Csome o=
f the
readable nodes=E2=80=9D?  Is there are a difference, or is this text assert=
ing that
all parts of the modules are sensitive and need access control?

A related line of questioning for the write operation.  The text opens with
saying that =E2=80=9CThere are a number of data nodes defined in ietf-ospf.=
yang ...
[and that] [w]rite operations ... to these nodes without proper protection
can have a negative effect on the network operations ... [and] ... the
ability to modify OSPF configuration ...=E2=80=9D is problematic.  Can you =
help me
understand which parts of the text is the =E2=80=9COSPF configuration=E2=80=
=9D vs. =E2=80=9Cthere
are number of data nodes ...=E2=80=9D?  If there isn=E2=80=99t a different,=
 is the text
asserting that all parts of the modules are sensitive and need access
control?


- - - - - - - - - - -
COMMENT
- - - - - - - - - - -

(1) Idnits returned a seemingly valid few reference issues:

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 1765

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 4973

(2) Editorial
-- Section 4.  Isn=E2=80=99t RFC8341, =E2=80=9Cthe Network Configuration Ac=
cess Control
Model=E2=80=9D rather than the =E2=80=9CNETCONF access control model=E2=80=
=9D?

-- Section 4.  Typo.  s/specificationn/specification/

-- Section 4.  Remove the duplicate instance of the phrase =E2=80=9Cfor leg=
acy
implementations that do not support key-chains=E2=80=9D.

-- Section 4.  Typo.  s/The OSPF YANG module support/the OSPF YANG module
supports/

Alvaro Retana

--000000000000f7559a0590a1f13a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">[It looks like the datatracker didn=E2=80=99t se=
nd out the text to Roman=E2=80=99s DISCUSS.=C2=A0 I didn=E2=80=99t receive =
it, nor do I see it in the mail archive.=C2=A0 So I=E2=80=99m pasting it he=
re. =E2=80=94 Alvaro.]</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_signature">- - - - - - =
- - - - -</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">DISCUSS</div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_signature">- - - - - - - - - - -</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">A =E2=80=9Cdiscuss to discuss=E2=80=
=9D.=C2=A0 Per the convention outlined in <a href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/=
trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines">https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki=
/yang-security-guidelines</a>, thank you for clearly noting the implication=
 of not securing these nodes properly. =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_sign=
ature"><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signatu=
re">Furthermore, following the convention, I would have expected Section 4 =
to have enumerated the sensitive writeable/creatable/deletable data nodes; =
and the sensitive readable nodes individually.=C2=A0 For a model this large=
, I can imagine that individual enumeration would be a long list. =C2=A0</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">=
In the case of read operations, the text opens with saying that =E2=80=9Cso=
me of the readable data nodes ...=E2=80=9D and later says =E2=80=9CThe expo=
sure of the ... LSDB will expose the detailed topology ...=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 =
Can you help me understand which part of ietf-ospf.yang is the LSDB and whi=
ch parts refer to =E2=80=9Csome of the readable nodes=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 Is th=
ere are a difference, or is this text asserting that all parts of the modul=
es are sensitive and need access control? =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_s=
ignature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">A related line of questi=
oning for the write operation.=C2=A0 The text opens with saying that =E2=80=
=9CThere are a number of data nodes defined in ietf-ospf.yang ... [and that=
] [w]rite operations ... to these nodes without proper protection can have =
a negative effect on the network operations ... [and] ... the ability to mo=
dify OSPF configuration ...=E2=80=9D is problematic.=C2=A0 Can you help me =
understand which parts of the text is the =E2=80=9COSPF configuration=E2=80=
=9D vs. =E2=80=9Cthere are number of data nodes ...=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0 If ther=
e isn=E2=80=99t a different, is the text asserting that all parts of the mo=
dules are sensitive and need access control?</div><div class=3D"gmail_signa=
ture"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_signature">- - - - - - - - - - -</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">COMM=
ENT</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">- - - - - - - - - - -</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature">(1) Idnits returned a seemingly valid few reference is=
sues:</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature">=C2=A0 ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC =
1765</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_sign=
ature">=C2=A0 ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 4=
973</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signa=
ture">(2) Editorial</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">-- Section 4.=C2=A0=
 Isn=E2=80=99t RFC8341, =E2=80=9Cthe Network Configuration Access Control M=
odel=E2=80=9D rather than the =E2=80=9CNETCONF access control model=E2=80=
=9D?</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_sign=
ature">-- Section 4.=C2=A0 Typo. =C2=A0s/specificationn/specification/</div=
><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">--=
 Section 4.=C2=A0 Remove the duplicate instance of the phrase =E2=80=9Cfor =
legacy implementations that do not support key-chains=E2=80=9D.</div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">-- Sectio=
n 4.=C2=A0 Typo. =C2=A0s/The OSPF YANG module support/the OSPF YANG module =
supports/</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature">Alvaro Retana=C2=A0</div></div></div></body></html>

--000000000000f7559a0590a1f13a--


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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org,  Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr]  =?utf-8?q?Roman_Danyliw=E2=80=99s_DISCUSS_on_draft-ietf-os?= =?utf-8?q?pf-yang-26?=
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On August 21, 2019 at 11:08:26 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana.ietf@gmail.com)
wrote:

Hi!

Just replying to this piece:

- - - - - - - - - - -
COMMENT
- - - - - - - - - - -

(1) Idnits returned a seemingly valid few reference issues:

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 1765

  ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 4973

Yes, we listed as Normative all the references to features implemented in
the model.  In particular, these two RFCs document features that are widely
used, and were considered important by the team to include.

Both of these were called out in the IETF LC.

Alvaro.

--0000000000005f66a60590a20169
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">On August 21, 2019 at 11:08:26 AM, Alvaro Retana (<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</fo=
nt></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Hi!</font></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div style=3D=
"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Just replying to this piece: =C2=A0</=
font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></=
div> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-varian=
t-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div><font face=3D=
"Helvetica"><div class=3D"gmail_signature">- - - - - - - - - - -</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_signature">COMMENT</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature">- - -=
 - - - - - - - -</div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div class=3D"gmail_signature" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-ind=
ent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">(1) Idnits=
 returned a seemingly valid few reference issues:</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
signature" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacin=
g:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:n=
ormal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:s=
tart;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0p=
x">=C2=A0 ** Downref: Normative reference to an Experimental RFC: RFC 1765<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-=
caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_signature" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-sp=
acing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spa=
ce:normal;word-spacing:0px">=C2=A0 ** Downref: Normative reference to an Ex=
perimental RFC: RFC 4973</div></div></font></div></span></blockquote></div>=
<p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Yes, we listed as Normative all the references =
to features implemented in the model.=C2=A0 In particular, these two RFCs d=
ocument features that are widely used, and were considered important by the=
 team to include.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Both of these were =
called out in the IETF LC.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</f=
ont></p></body></html>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "Stephane Litkowski" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
In-Reply-To: <3C6675D0-AFE8-46C2-BF6A-12FA19787A9C@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 16:25:17 -0400
Cc: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/lnPzzrG2x9Brejqi2jC96BsT5H8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Acee,

> On Aug 21, 2019, at 1:01 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alissa,
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 8/21/19, 9:29 AM, "Alissa Cooper via Datatracker" =
<noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
>    Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>    draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: No Objection
>=20
>    When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to =
all
>    email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
>    introductory paragraph, however.)
>=20
>=20
>    Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>    for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>=20
>=20
>    The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>=20
>=20
>=20
>    =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    COMMENT:
>    =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>    Per the Gen-ART review, I think 2.3 may be a little clearer if it =
were to say
>    "The field 'version' is used to indicate the OSPF LSA version and =
is mandatory."
>=20
> This change has already been made in response to the Gen-ART review.

My specific suggestion was to include =E2=80=9CLSA=E2=80=9D after =
=E2=80=9COSPF=E2=80=9D since that seemed to be the source of the =
confusion.

Best,
Alissa

>=20
> 2.3.  OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
>=20
>   The data model defined herein supports both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3.
>=20
>   The field 'version' is used to indicate the OSPF version and is
>   mandatory.  Based on the configured version, the data model varies =
to
>   accommodate the differences between OSPFv2 and OSPFv3.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
>    I did not review this entire document but I'm balloting based on =
the Gen-ART
>    review.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
CC: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 03:58:07 +0000
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--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01B3439CF1marathon_--


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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) Can we check whether it's okay to use the yang "string" type for raw
cryptographic keys (e.g., ospfv2-key, ospfv3-key)?  My understanding was
that yang strings were limited to human-readable, but that the crypto
keys could be raw binary values.

(2) Do we need to say anything about how to indicate when there are
discontinuities for the various "counter" types?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm happy to see the discussion around Roman's Discuss.

Section 1

   YANG [RFC6020][RFC7950] is a data definition language used to define
   the contents of a conceptual data store that allows networked devices
   to be managed using NETCONF [RFC6241].  YANG is proving relevant
   beyond its initial confines, as bindings to other interfaces (e.g.,
   ReST) and encodings other than XML (e.g., JSON) are being defined.

This text feels a bit stale at this point.

Section 2

   model varies among router vendors.  Differences are observed in terms
   of how the protocol instance is tied to the routing domain, how
   multiple protocol instances are be instantiated among others.

nit: the grammar here is a bit odd, with the comma suggesting the start
of a list but no "and" present.

Section 2.2

   The ospf module is intended to match to the vendor specific OSPF
   configuration construct that is identified by the local identifier
   'name'.

I don't really understand what this is intended to mean.

Section 2.7

hello-timer in the module claims to be a rt-types:timer-value-seconds16
but shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32.
Similarly, the wait-itmer is a rt-types:timer-value-seconds32, which
also shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32, which is perhaps more
reasonable but perhaps not entirely accurate.
Other 'timer' leafs seem to have similar issues.

Section 3

     feature ospfv2-authentication-trailer {
       description
         "Use OSPFv2 authentication trailer for OSPFv2
          authentication.";

Is the feature for "use" or "support for"?
(Similarly for the ospfv3 authentication features.)

     identity ospfv2-lsa-option {
       description
         "Baes idenity for OSPFv2 LSA option flags.";

nit: "Base"

     identity v2-p-bit {
       base ospfv2-lsa-option;
       description
         "Only used in type-7 LSA. When set, an NSSA
          border router should translate the type-7 LSA
          to a type-5 LSA.";

There seem to be a few "identity <foo>-bit" stanzas whose description do
not mention the named bit specifically (but many that do).  Do we want
to be consistent about doing so?  (Likewise for <foo>-flag.)

     grouping tlv {
       description
         "Type-Length-Value (TLV)";
       leaf type {
         type uint16;
         description "TLV type.";
       }
       leaf length {
         type uint16;
         description "TLV length (octets).";
       }
       leaf value {
         type yang:hex-string;
         description "TLV value.";

Is there a way to apply a constraint so the 'length' matches the
hext-string's length?

     grouping router-capabilities-tlv {

The various descriptions hereunder could perhaps benefit from section
references, as, e.g., two nodes named "informational-capabilities" may
otherwise require some effort to distinguish.  Well, aside from the fact
that one is currently listed as "capabilitiess" with two esses, which
seems unlikely to be intended.

     grouping ospf-router-lsa-bits {
       container rputer-bits {

s/rputer/router/?

         container te-opaque {
           [...]
           container link-tlv {
             description "Describes a singel link, and it is constructed
             of a set of Sub-TLVs.";

s/singel/single/

     grouping ospfv3-lsa-external {
       [...]
       leaf referenced-link-state-id {
         type yang:dotted-quad;

RFC 5340 section 2.2 implies that the Link State ID is going to be a
32-bit identifier that need not be represented as dotted-quad, as it
does not have addressing semantics.  (dotted-quad seems to be used for
Link-State-ID-shaped things elsewhere, too, though the preferred form
may be the union of dotted-quad and uint32.)

     grouping lsa-common {
       description
           "Common fields for OSPF LSA representation.";
       leaf decode-completed {
         type boolean;
         description
           "The OSPF LSA body was successfully decoded other than
            unknown TLVs. Unknown LSAs types and OSPFv2 unknown
            opaque LSA types are not decoded. Additionally,
            malformed LSAs are generally not accepted and are
            not be in the Link State Database.";

nit: "are not be" is not grammatical.

     grouping lsa-key {
       description
         "OSPF LSA key.";

This could maybe benefit from a more descriptive description; is this a
sort or lookup key, for example?

       container database {
         description "Container for per AS-scope LSA statistics.";
         list as-scope-lsa-type {
           [...]
           leaf lsa-cksum-sum {
             type uint32;
             description
               "The sum of the LSA checksums of the LSA type.";

[It's not entirely clear to me why this sum-of-checksums is a useful
thing to track, but it may not be this document's role to do so.
Though, perhaps we do need to say if the sum is computed as integers
modulo 2**32.]

       leaf transmit-delay {
         type uint16;
         units seconds;
         description
           "Estimated time needed to transmit Link State Update
            (LSU) packets on the interface (seconds). LSAs have
            their age incremented by this amount on advertised
            on the interface. A sample value would be 1 second.";

nit: "on advertised on" does not seem grammatical.

       leaf lls {
       [...]
       container ttl-security {

Should these have a default value?

           case ospfv3-auth-ipsec {
             when "derived-from-or-self(../../../../../../rt:type, "
               +  "'ospfv3')" {
               description "Applied to OSPFv3 only.";
             }
             if-feature ospfv3-authentication-ipsec;
             leaf sa {
                 type string;

I don't see RFC 4552 talking about names for SAs; where would this be
discussed (and, are they guaranteed to be human-readable)?

           leaf poll-interval {
             type uint16;
             units seconds;
             description
               "Neighbor poll interval (seconds) for sending OSPF
                hello packets to discover the neighbor on NBMA
                networks. This interval dictates the granularity for
                discovery of new neighbors. A sample would be 2 minutes
                for a legacy Packet Data Network (PDN) X.25 network.";

Maybe "2 minutes (120 seconds)" since the units are seconds?

       container preference {
         description
           "Route preference configuration In many
            implementations, preference is referred to as
            administrative distance.";

nit: missing sentence break?

For the spf- and lsa-logs, do we require that the 'id' is assigned in
any particular order, or do we just rely on the included timestamp(s)
for any time-ordering required by the consumer?

     grouping notification-neighbor {
       [...]
       leaf neighbor-ip-addr {
         type yang:dotted-quad;
         description "Neighbor address.";

neighbors can only be identified by IPv4 addresses?

       leaf packet-source {
         type yang:dotted-quad;

packet sources, too? (multiple times)

       description
         "This notification is sent when aa neighbor
          state change is detected.";

nit: s/aa/a/

Section 4

   Additionally, local specificationn of OSPF authentication keys and
   the associated authentication algorithm is supported for legacy
   implementations that do not support key-chains [RFC8177] for legacy
   implementations that do not support key-chains.  It is RECOMMENDED
   that implementations migrate to key-chains due the seamless support
   of key and algorithm rollover, as well as, the encryption of key
   using the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) Key Wrap Padding
   Algorithm [RFC5649].

(Roman caught the nits, so I won't duplicate that.)
I expected to see something about keeping the actual key material
secret, as well.



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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Section 2.7

Why are the neighbor configuration and operational state under different
subtrees here? I thought one of the goals of NMDA was to avoid this.

* Section 2.9

Is there a reason why the clear operation for neighbors is defined using an RPC
operation instead of simply an action under the relevant interface?

* Meta comment

NMDA is misspelt as NDMA in several places throughout the document including
the abstract and the introduction. Suggest a global search and replace.

Editorial
========

* Under ospfv2-lsa-option

s/Baes idenity/Base identity/



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To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh@kaloom.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-27.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-27.txt
	Pages           : 129
	Date            : 2019-08-22

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
   7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
   (NMDA) as described in RFC 8342.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-27
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-27

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-27


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until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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--_000_6C8DADE8F27C4843AAF07605ACDA9385ciscocom_--


From nobody Thu Aug 22 18:44:15 2019
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 20:44:02 -0500
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:30:27AM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Ben, 
> 
> ﻿On 8/22/19, 1:46 AM, "Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker" <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
>     Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
>     draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: Discuss
>     
>     When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>     email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>     introductory paragraph, however.)
>     
>     
>     Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>     for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>     
>     
>     The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>     
>     
>     
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     DISCUSS:
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     
>     (1) Can we check whether it's okay to use the yang "string" type for raw
>     cryptographic keys (e.g., ospfv2-key, ospfv3-key)?  My understanding was
>     that yang strings were limited to human-readable, but that the crypto
>     keys could be raw binary values.
> 
> It does only include human-readable keys. Here is the RFC 7950 YANG ABNF definition.
> 
> 
>    ;; any Unicode or ISO/IEC 10646 character, including tab, carriage
>    ;; return, and line feed but excluding the other C0 control
>    ;; characters, the surrogate blocks, and the noncharacters
>    yang-char = %x09 / %x0A / %x0D / %x20-D7FF /
>                                ; exclude surrogate blocks %xD800-DFFF
>               %xE000-FDCF /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFDD0-FDEF
>               %xFDF0-FFFD /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFE-FFFF
>               %x10000-1FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x1FFFE-1FFFF
>               %x20000-2FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x2FFFE-2FFFF
>               %x30000-3FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x3FFFE-3FFFF
>               %x40000-4FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x4FFFE-4FFFF
>               %x50000-5FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x5FFFE-5FFFF
>               %x60000-6FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x6FFFE-6FFFF
>               %x70000-7FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x7FFFE-7FFFF
>               %x80000-8FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x8FFFE-8FFFF
>               %x90000-9FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x9FFFE-9FFFF
>               %xA0000-AFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xAFFFE-AFFFF
>               %xB0000-BFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xBFFFE-BFFFF
>               %xC0000-CFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xCFFFE-CFFFF
>               %xD0000-DFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xDFFFE-DFFFF
>               %xE0000-EFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xEFFFE-EFFFF
>               %xF0000-FFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFFE-FFFFF
>               %x100000-10FFFD  ; exclude noncharacters %x10FFFE-10FFFF
> 
> However, this is the intent as this is support for implementations that don't support key-chains (RFC 8177). The "Security Considerations" recommend key chains. We'll add the hexadecimal specification as another reason for preferring key-chains. 

Okay, that's enough to resolve the discuss.

>  
>   
>     (2) Do we need to say anything about how to indicate when there are
>     discontinuities for the various "counter" types?
> 
> I've never heard any mention of counter discontinuities in the context of OSPF control plane counters. 

Oh, I think this is more of a YANG thing than an OSPF thing (and I'm hardly
a YANG expert).  That is, the yang:counter32 and similar types are
constrained to only ever increment ("count events that happened", roughly),
as opposed to a gauge32 that measures the current level of something and
can go up or down, or a generic uint32.  Of course, in the real world
software crashes or restarts, so a YANG consumer might in practice see the
value of a "counter" type go backwards, even though that's forbidden by the
spec.  In some cases (and I don't know exactly when it becomes most
relevant), the YANG model includes a "discontinuity time" (e.g., router
restart time) to indicate when the counters were last reset to zero, in
order to give consumers a sense for how long it took the counter to get
that big.  It's entirely possible that this doesn't make sense for the OSPF
counters, and if you tell me that I'm happy to clear.

Searching for "RFC YANG discontinuity" brings up several representative
results, such as RFC 8343, which says:

           leaf discontinuity-time {
             type yang:date-and-time;
             mandatory true;
             description
               "The time on the most recent occasion at which any one or
                more of this interface's counters suffered a
                discontinuity.  If no such discontinuities have occurred
                since the last re-initialization of the local management
                subsystem, then this node contains the time the local
                management subsystem re-initialized itself.";


>     
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     COMMENT:
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     
>     I'm happy to see the discussion around Roman's Discuss.
>     
>     Section 1
>     
>        YANG [RFC6020][RFC7950] is a data definition language used to define
>        the contents of a conceptual data store that allows networked devices
>        to be managed using NETCONF [RFC6241].  YANG is proving relevant
>        beyond its initial confines, as bindings to other interfaces (e.g.,
>        ReST) and encodings other than XML (e.g., JSON) are being defined.
>     
>     This text feels a bit stale at this point.
> 
> Updated in -27.
>     
>     Section 2
>     
>        model varies among router vendors.  Differences are observed in terms
>        of how the protocol instance is tied to the routing domain, how
>        multiple protocol instances are be instantiated among others.
>     
>     nit: the grammar here is a bit odd, with the comma suggesting the start
>     of a list but no "and" present.
> 
> Fixed in -27.
>     
>     Section 2.2
>     
>        The ospf module is intended to match to the vendor specific OSPF
>        configuration construct that is identified by the local identifier
>        'name'.
>     
>     I don't really understand what this is intended to mean.
> 
> I removed this paragraph and augmented the next one.

Thanks; it makes a lot more sense to me now.

>     Section 2.7
>     
>     hello-timer in the module claims to be a rt-types:timer-value-seconds16
>     but shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32.
>     Similarly, the wait-itmer is a rt-types:timer-value-seconds32, which
>     also shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32, which is perhaps more
>     reasonable but perhaps not entirely accurate.
>     Other 'timer' leafs seem to have similar issues.
> 
> Fixed. 
>     
>     Section 3
>     
>          feature ospfv2-authentication-trailer {
>            description
>              "Use OSPFv2 authentication trailer for OSPFv2
>               authentication.";
>     
>     Is the feature for "use" or "support for"?
>     (Similarly for the ospfv3 authentication features.)
> 
> The latter - fixed. 
>     
>          identity ospfv2-lsa-option {
>            description
>              "Baes idenity for OSPFv2 LSA option flags.";
>     
>     nit: "Base"
> 
> Fixed. 
>     
>          identity v2-p-bit {
>            base ospfv2-lsa-option;
>            description
>              "Only used in type-7 LSA. When set, an NSSA
>               border router should translate the type-7 LSA
>               to a type-5 LSA.";
>     
>     There seem to be a few "identity <foo>-bit" stanzas whose description do
>     not mention the named bit specifically (but many that do).  Do we want
>     to be consistent about doing so?  (Likewise for <foo>-flag.)
> 
> Made these consistent. This was added very late when we realized that YANG type bit is not extendable. 

The YANG type bit is not extendable?!  I'll have to remebmer that for the
future...

>          grouping tlv {
>            description
>              "Type-Length-Value (TLV)";
>            leaf type {
>              type uint16;
>              description "TLV type.";
>            }
>            leaf length {
>              type uint16;
>              description "TLV length (octets).";
>            }
>            leaf value {
>              type yang:hex-string;
>              description "TLV value.";
>     
>     Is there a way to apply a constraint so the 'length' matches the
>     hext-string's length?
> 
> Since this is returned operational data, it doesn't make a lot of sense to put constraints on it. It is basically what the router returns. If it is wrong, it wouldn't have been parsed correctly in the first place. 

Ah, good point.

>          grouping router-capabilities-tlv {
>     
>     The various descriptions hereunder could perhaps benefit from section
>     references, as, e.g., two nodes named "informational-capabilities" may
>     otherwise require some effort to distinguish.  Well, aside from the fact
>     that one is currently listed as "capabilitiess" with two esses, which
>     seems unlikely to be intended.
> 
> I fixed the description on these to differential between the list uint32 flags and the identities.

Thanks (BTW please double-check the description for "leaf functional-flag",
that currenty looks like "Individual informational capability flag.")

>          grouping ospf-router-lsa-bits {
>            container rputer-bits {
>     
>     s/rputer/router/?
> 
> Fixed. 
>     
>              container te-opaque {
>                [...]
>                container link-tlv {
>                  description "Describes a singel link, and it is constructed
>                  of a set of Sub-TLVs.";
>     
>     s/singel/single/
> 
> Fixed. 
>     
>          grouping ospfv3-lsa-external {
>            [...]
>            leaf referenced-link-state-id {
>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>     
>     RFC 5340 section 2.2 implies that the Link State ID is going to be a
>     32-bit identifier that need not be represented as dotted-quad, as it
>     does not have addressing semantics.  (dotted-quad seems to be used for
>     Link-State-ID-shaped things elsewhere, too, though the preferred form
>     may be the union of dotted-quad and uint32.)
> 
> Good catch. This should be unit32 for OSPFv3. There were two instances of this. 
>     
>          grouping lsa-common {
>            description
>                "Common fields for OSPF LSA representation.";
>            leaf decode-completed {
>              type boolean;
>              description
>                "The OSPF LSA body was successfully decoded other than
>                 unknown TLVs. Unknown LSAs types and OSPFv2 unknown
>                 opaque LSA types are not decoded. Additionally,
>                 malformed LSAs are generally not accepted and are
>                 not be in the Link State Database.";
>     
>     nit: "are not be" is not grammatical.
> 
> Fixed - "will not be".
>     
>          grouping lsa-key {
>            description
>              "OSPF LSA key.";
>     
>     This could maybe benefit from a more descriptive description; is this a
>     sort or lookup key, for example?
> 
> Yes - I've improved.
>     
>            container database {
>              description "Container for per AS-scope LSA statistics.";
>              list as-scope-lsa-type {
>                [...]
>                leaf lsa-cksum-sum {
>                  type uint32;
>                  description
>                    "The sum of the LSA checksums of the LSA type.";
>     
>     [It's not entirely clear to me why this sum-of-checksums is a useful
>     thing to track, but it may not be this document's role to do so.
>     Though, perhaps we do need to say if the sum is computed as integers
>     modulo 2**32.]
> 
> This is from the OSPF MIB (RFC 4750). It is not used functionally as one cannot guarantee differing LSDBs will not yield the same checksum. However, if the checksums are different, you can assure the databases are different. 

Thanks for the extra text -- it helps confirm my guess as to what's going
on.

>            leaf transmit-delay {
>              type uint16;
>              units seconds;
>              description
>                "Estimated time needed to transmit Link State Update
>                 (LSU) packets on the interface (seconds). LSAs have
>                 their age incremented by this amount on advertised
>                 on the interface. A sample value would be 1 second.";
>     
>     nit: "on advertised on" does not seem grammatical.
> 
> Fixed - "when advertised on".
>     
>            leaf lls {
>            [...]
>            container ttl-security {
>     
>     Should these have a default value?
> 
> I think 1 would be appropriate since only virtual-links and sham-links require more.
>     
>                case ospfv3-auth-ipsec {
>                  when "derived-from-or-self(../../../../../../rt:type, "
>                    +  "'ospfv3')" {
>                    description "Applied to OSPFv3 only.";
>                  }
>                  if-feature ospfv3-authentication-ipsec;
>                  leaf sa {
>                      type string;
>     
>     I don't see RFC 4552 talking about names for SAs; where would this be
>     discussed (and, are they guaranteed to be human-readable)?
> 
> If it is not human readable, how would it be configured? 

I wasn't sure if this was config or operational state, but you make a good
point.

>                leaf poll-interval {
>                  type uint16;
>                  units seconds;
>                  description
>                    "Neighbor poll interval (seconds) for sending OSPF
>                     hello packets to discover the neighbor on NBMA
>                     networks. This interval dictates the granularity for
>                     discovery of new neighbors. A sample would be 2 minutes
>                     for a legacy Packet Data Network (PDN) X.25 network.";
>     
>     Maybe "2 minutes (120 seconds)" since the units are seconds?
> 
> Fixed.
>     
>            container preference {
>              description
>                "Route preference configuration In many
>                 implementations, preference is referred to as
>                 administrative distance.";
>     
>     nit: missing sentence break?
> 
> Fixed.
>     
>     For the spf- and lsa-logs, do we require that the 'id' is assigned in
>     any particular order, or do we just rely on the included timestamp(s)
>     for any time-ordering required by the consumer?
> 
> I added ordering to the description of the spf-log and lsa-log. However, the id is a purely internal value to provide a uniqueness key for the YANG list. 

Understood, and thanks.

>          grouping notification-neighbor {
>            [...]
>            leaf neighbor-ip-addr {
>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>              description "Neighbor address.";
>     
>     neighbors can only be identified by IPv4 addresses?
> 
> Changed to IP address type.
>     
>            leaf packet-source {
>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>     
>     packet sources, too? (multiple times)
>     
> Changed to IP address type. 
> 
>            description
>              "This notification is sent when aa neighbor
>               state change is detected.";
>     
>     nit: s/aa/a/
> 
> Fixed. 
>     
>     Section 4
>     
>        Additionally, local specificationn of OSPF authentication keys and
>        the associated authentication algorithm is supported for legacy
>        implementations that do not support key-chains [RFC8177] for legacy
>        implementations that do not support key-chains.  It is RECOMMENDED
>        that implementations migrate to key-chains due the seamless support
>        of key and algorithm rollover, as well as, the encryption of key
>        using the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) Key Wrap Padding
>        Algorithm [RFC5649].
>     
>     (Roman caught the nits, so I won't duplicate that.)
>     I expected to see something about keeping the actual key material
>     secret, as well.
> 
> Can you suggest some text?

How's this?

The actual authentication key data (whether locally specified or part of a
key-chain) is sensitive and needs to be kept secret from unauthorized
parties; compromise of the key data would allow an attacker to forge OSPF
traffic that would be accepted as authentic, potentially compromising the
entirey OSPF domain.

Thanks,

Ben


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Subject: [Lsr] IANA Request for Early Allocation for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: IANA <iana@iana.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <216ECAE7-83B4-45EE-92B0-FADA3B467489@cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:39:26 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Hi!

Just a nit...

IANA can correct me here=E2=80=A6.  The registries are not eligible for Ear=
ly
Allocation (rfc7120) because the allocation policy is Expert Review.  Not
to worry, IANA can ask the DEs for allocation.  The nit is that the
allocation would not be subject to renewal/expiration, but would be
permanent.

In any case, this request is ok with me.

Alvaro.

On August 23, 2019 at 12:29:34 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com)
wrote:

We have a request for IANA allocation for this draft from a vendor
implementing the draft. Please provide early allocation for the code points=
.



 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">Hi!</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D=
"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvet=
ica">Just a nit...</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helv=
etica"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">=
IANA can correct me here=E2=80=A6.=C2=A0 The registries are not eligible fo=
r Early Allocation (rfc7120) because the allocation policy is Expert Review=
.=C2=A0 Not to worry, IANA can ask the DEs for allocation.=C2=A0 The nit is=
 that the allocation would not be subject to renewal/expiration, but would =
be permanent.</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica=
"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">In an=
y case, this request is ok with me.</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><=
font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font fa=
ce=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font></div> <font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font><=
p class=3D"airmail_on"><font face=3D"Helvetica">On August 23, 2019 at 12:29=
:34 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) (<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.co=
m</a>) wrote:</font></p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span=
><div><font face=3D"Helvetica"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0=
in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px">We have a request for IANA allocation for this draft from a=
 vendor implementing the draft. Please provide early allocation for the cod=
e points.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:=
rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;=
text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">=
=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/" s=
tyle=3D"word-wrap:break-word;word-break:break-word;color:rgb(149,79,114);te=
xt-decoration:underline">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-m=
pls-elc/</a></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"=
>=C2=A0</p></font></div></span></blockquote> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"=
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:18:34 +0000
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/s99HtUurCZdcVH0686q_NvVCrSA>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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On August 23, 2019 at 2:18:37 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) (
ginsberg@cisco.com) wrote:

Most IS-IS TLV registries are =E2=80=9CExpert Review=E2=80=9D and we have b=
een doing early
allocation for many years now.

Are you now saying this has been invalid process for all of these years??

No, not exactly.

What I=E2=80=99m saying is that the rfc7120 process doesn=E2=80=99t apply t=
o registries
which are Expert Review only; specifically, look at =C2=A73.

For Expert Review only registries, IANA still has to be in the loop when
doing the allocation, because they are the interface with the DEs.
However, unlike early allocations done through rfc7120, the DE-assigned
ones don=E2=80=99t expire=E2=80=A6and the requirements for Expert Review ma=
y be simpler.
So, the allocation may be done =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D, as in before the pr=
ocess is
complete=E2=80=A6which is perfectly fine, as long as there are no explicit
instructions in the registry-creating RFC, and the DE approves.

For example, a registry with an RFC Required policy needs an RFC =E2=80=94
obviously!  So the rfc7120 process allows for the early (=3D before an RFC =
is
published) assignment.  As part of the process, the assignments expire
every year and have to be explicitly renewed=E2=80=A6.in case the work is a=
bandoned
and never completed, for example.

OTOH, unless explicitly indicated in the RFC that defined the registry, a
DE may assign a code point at pretty much any time (see =C2=A75/rfc8126).

Again, IANA can correct me.

Alvaro.

--0000000000001b11270590cd5e61
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">On August 23, 2019 at 2:18:37 PM, Les Ginsberg (=
ginsberg) (<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>) wr=
ote:</div> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-=
family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:n=
ormal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent=
:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><div la=
ng=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div></div><div><div class=3D"W=
ordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Most IS-IS TLV registries are =E2=80=9C=
Expert Review=E2=80=9D and we have been doing early allocation for many yea=
rs now.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Are you now sa=
ying this has been invalid process for all of these years??</p></div></div>=
</div></span></blockquote></div><p>No, not exactly.</p><p>What I=E2=80=99m =
saying is that the rfc7120 process doesn=E2=80=99t apply to registries whic=
h are Expert Review only; specifically, look at =C2=A73. =C2=A0</p><p>For E=
xpert Review only registries, IANA still has to be in the loop when doing t=
he allocation, because they are the interface with the DEs.=C2=A0 However, =
unlike early allocations done through rfc7120, the DE-assigned ones don=E2=
=80=99t expire=E2=80=A6and the requirements for Expert Review may be simple=
r.=C2=A0 So, the allocation may be done =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D, as in befo=
re the process is complete=E2=80=A6which is perfectly fine, as long as ther=
e are no explicit instructions in the registry-creating RFC, and the DE app=
roves.</p><p>For example, a registry with an RFC Required policy needs an R=
FC =E2=80=94 obviously!=C2=A0 So the rfc7120 process allows for the early (=
=3D before an RFC is published) assignment.=C2=A0 As part of the process, t=
he assignments expire every year and have to be explicitly renewed=E2=80=A6=
.in case the work is abandoned and never completed, for example.</p><p>OTOH=
, unless explicitly indicated in the RFC that defined the registry, a DE ma=
y assign a code point at pretty much any time (see =C2=A75/rfc8126).</p><p>=
Again, IANA can correct me.</p><p>Alvaro.</p></body></html>

--0000000000001b11270590cd5e61--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 20:07:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IANA Early Allocation Request for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Extension for Prefix Originator
        Authors         : Aijun Wang
                          Acee Lindem
                          Jie Dong
                          Ketan Talaulikar
                          Peter Psenak
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-02.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2019-08-25

Abstract:
   This document describes Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) v2 and OSPFv3
   encodings to advertise the router-id of the originator of inter-area
   prefixes for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 Link-State Advertisement (LSA), which
   are needed in several use cases in multi-area OSPF use cases.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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From nobody Mon Aug 26 08:03:08 2019
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28.txt
	Pages           : 132
	Date            : 2019-08-26

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
   7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
   (NMDA) as described in RFC 8342.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Aug 26 08:10:09 2019
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 10:09:47 -0500
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Acee,

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 03:02:18PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Ben, 
> 
> ﻿On 8/22/19, 9:44 PM, "Benjamin Kaduk" <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:
> 
>     On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:30:27AM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>     > Hi Ben, 
>     > 
>     > On 8/22/19, 1:46 AM, "Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker" <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>     > 
>     >     Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
>     >     draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: Discuss
>     >     
>     >     When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>     >     email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>     >     introductory paragraph, however.)
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>     >     for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>     >     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >     DISCUSS:
>     >     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >     
>     >     (1) Can we check whether it's okay to use the yang "string" type for raw
>     >     cryptographic keys (e.g., ospfv2-key, ospfv3-key)?  My understanding was
>     >     that yang strings were limited to human-readable, but that the crypto
>     >     keys could be raw binary values.
>     > 
>     > It does only include human-readable keys. Here is the RFC 7950 YANG ABNF definition.
>     > 
>     > 
>     >    ;; any Unicode or ISO/IEC 10646 character, including tab, carriage
>     >    ;; return, and line feed but excluding the other C0 control
>     >    ;; characters, the surrogate blocks, and the noncharacters
>     >    yang-char = %x09 / %x0A / %x0D / %x20-D7FF /
>     >                                ; exclude surrogate blocks %xD800-DFFF
>     >               %xE000-FDCF /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFDD0-FDEF
>     >               %xFDF0-FFFD /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFE-FFFF
>     >               %x10000-1FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x1FFFE-1FFFF
>     >               %x20000-2FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x2FFFE-2FFFF
>     >               %x30000-3FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x3FFFE-3FFFF
>     >               %x40000-4FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x4FFFE-4FFFF
>     >               %x50000-5FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x5FFFE-5FFFF
>     >               %x60000-6FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x6FFFE-6FFFF
>     >               %x70000-7FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x7FFFE-7FFFF
>     >               %x80000-8FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x8FFFE-8FFFF
>     >               %x90000-9FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x9FFFE-9FFFF
>     >               %xA0000-AFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xAFFFE-AFFFF
>     >               %xB0000-BFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xBFFFE-BFFFF
>     >               %xC0000-CFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xCFFFE-CFFFF
>     >               %xD0000-DFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xDFFFE-DFFFF
>     >               %xE0000-EFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xEFFFE-EFFFF
>     >               %xF0000-FFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFFE-FFFFF
>     >               %x100000-10FFFD  ; exclude noncharacters %x10FFFE-10FFFF
>     > 
>     > However, this is the intent as this is support for implementations that don't support key-chains (RFC 8177). The "Security Considerations" recommend key chains. We'll add the hexadecimal specification as another reason for preferring key-chains. 
>     
>     Okay, that's enough to resolve the discuss.
>     
>     >  
>     >   
>     >     (2) Do we need to say anything about how to indicate when there are
>     >     discontinuities for the various "counter" types?
>     > 
>     > I've never heard any mention of counter discontinuities in the context of OSPF control plane counters. 
>     
>     Oh, I think this is more of a YANG thing than an OSPF thing (and I'm hardly
>     a YANG expert).  That is, the yang:counter32 and similar types are
>     constrained to only ever increment ("count events that happened", roughly),
>     as opposed to a gauge32 that measures the current level of something and
>     can go up or down, or a generic uint32.  Of course, in the real world
>     software crashes or restarts, so a YANG consumer might in practice see the
>     value of a "counter" type go backwards, even though that's forbidden by the
>     spec.  In some cases (and I don't know exactly when it becomes most
>     relevant), the YANG model includes a "discontinuity time" (e.g., router
>     restart time) to indicate when the counters were last reset to zero, in
>     order to give consumers a sense for how long it took the counter to get
>     that big.  It's entirely possible that this doesn't make sense for the OSPF
>     counters, and if you tell me that I'm happy to clear.
>     
>     Searching for "RFC YANG discontinuity" brings up several representative
>     results, such as RFC 8343, which says:
>     
>                leaf discontinuity-time {
>                  type yang:date-and-time;
>                  mandatory true;
>                  description
>                    "The time on the most recent occasion at which any one or
>                     more of this interface's counters suffered a
>                     discontinuity.  If no such discontinuities have occurred
>                     since the last re-initialization of the local management
>                     subsystem, then this node contains the time the local
>                     management subsystem re-initialized itself.";
> 
> I did some research and the OSPF MIB (RFC 4750) did have a discontinuity time (ospfDiscontinuityTime). I added discontinuity-time for each applicable object in the -28 version. 

Thank you for doing the research -- I had forgotten to even check for an
analogous MIB!

The updates in the -28 look good, and I've cleared in the datatracker.

-Ben


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From nobody Mon Aug 26 10:46:17 2019
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Subject: [Lsr] lsr - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 106
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Acee Lindem, a Chair of the lsr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Link State Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Acee Lindem

Number of Sessions: 2
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours, 1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict:  ipsecme idr rtgwg lsvr
 Technology Overlap:  rift spring
 Key Participant Conflict:  bfd bess


People who must be present:
  Acee Lindem
  Christian Hopps
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Mon Aug 26 12:18:24 2019
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Call for "Hierarchical IS-IS" - draft-li-lsr-isis-hierarchical-isis-01
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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:05:21 +0000
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9FF2D71C-7945-4116-82CC-293E3CDBE343@cisco.com>
References: <9FF2D71C-7945-4116-82CC-293E3CDBE343@cisco.com>
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 17:13:25 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, IANA <iana@iana.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/NZ1KOG7GovVvKfyVW7PngcAt_xE>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IANA Request for Early Allocation for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08
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On August 23, 2019 at 10:50:34 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com)
wrote:

Hi!

We have a request for IANA allocation for this draft from a vendor
implementing the draft. Please provide early allocation for the code points.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/

This request is fine with me.

However, IANA pointed out (separately) that the proposed bit (0x04) in
the OSPFv3 Prefix Options is a deprecated value which was assigned to MOSPF
at one time.  Even if, according to rfc5340, there are no known
implementations of MOSPF in OSPFv3, I would like to ask IANA to not assign
the the 0x04 value to this draft, but instead to assign the next available
value.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

--0000000000007c04a005910ba02e
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font=
 face=3D"Helvetica">On August 23, 2019 at 10:50:34 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) (=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</font></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div><div styl=
e=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica">Hi!</font></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica"><br></font></div> <div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq" style=3D"font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spaci=
ng:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:=
normal;word-spacing:0px"><span><font face=3D"Helvetica"><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:nor=
mal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:n=
one;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">We have a request for IANA allocat=
ion for this draft from a vendor implementing the draft. Please provide ear=
ly allocation for the code points.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n:0in 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:no=
rmal;word-spacing:0px">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in=
 0in 0.0001pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-os=
pf-mpls-elc/" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;word-break:break-word;color:rgb=
(149,79,114);text-decoration:underline">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/</a></p></font></span></blockquote></div><p><font fa=
ce=3D"Helvetica">This request is fine with me. =C2=A0</font></p><p><font fa=
ce=3D"Helvetica">However, IANA pointed out (separately) that the proposed b=
it (0x04) in the=C2=A0OSPFv3 Prefix Options is a deprecated value which was=
 assigned to MOSPF at one time.=C2=A0 Even if, according to rfc5340, there =
are no known implementations of MOSPF in OSPFv3, I would like to ask IANA t=
o not assign the the 0x04 value to this draft, but instead to assign the ne=
xt available value.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Thanks!</font></p=
><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">Alvaro.</font></p><p><font face=3D"Helvetica">=
<br></font></p> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
CC: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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--_000_D3A5F3A107844506B4E4A6491B7EFDF8ciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Aug 26 15:22:49 2019
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Subject: [Lsr] Protocol Action: 'YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'YANG Data Model for OSPF Protocol'
  (draft-ietf-ospf-yang-28.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Link State Routing Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux and Deborah
Brungard.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/





Technical Summary

   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.  The model is based on YANG 1.1 as defined in RFC
   7950 and conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture
   (NDMA) as described in RFC 8342.

Working Group Summary

   Straight forward process in the WG.

Document Quality

   The document has been reviewed by a YANG doctor and his comments 
   have been addressed in the latest revisions.

Personnel

   Stephane Litkowski is the document shepherd.
   Alvaro Retana is the responsible AD. 


From nobody Mon Aug 26 20:10:34 2019
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Extension for Prefix Originator
        Authors         : Aijun Wang
                          Acee Lindem
                          Jie Dong
                          Peter Psenak
                          Ketan Talaulikar
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-03.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2019-08-26

Abstract:
   This document describes Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) v2 and OSPFv3
   encodings to advertise the router-id of the originator of inter-area
   prefixes for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 Link-State Advertisement (LSA), which
   are needed in several use cases in multi-area OSPF use cases.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Thread-Topic: [IANA #1150448] IANA Request for Early Allocation for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <alvaro.retana@futurewei.com>, Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <alvaro.retana@futurewei.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-06: (with DISCUSS)
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:22:45 +0000
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--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01B343F0EDmarathon_--


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From: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "aretana.ietf\@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs\@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang\@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr\@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> writes:

> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:30:27AM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Hi Ben,=20
>>=20
>> =EF=BB=BFOn 8/22/19, 1:46 AM, "Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker" <noreply@=
ietf.org> wrote:
>>=20
>>     Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
>>     draft-ietf-ospf-yang-26: Discuss
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>     email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut t=
his
>>     introductory paragraph, however.)
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria=
.html
>>     for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     --------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>     DISCUSS:
>>     --------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     (1) Can we check whether it's okay to use the yang "string" type for=
 raw
>>     cryptographic keys (e.g., ospfv2-key, ospfv3-key)?  My understanding=
 was
>>     that yang strings were limited to human-readable, but that the crypto
>>     keys could be raw binary values.
>>=20
>> It does only include human-readable keys. Here is the RFC 7950 YANG ABNF=
 definition.
>>=20
>>=20
>>    ;; any Unicode or ISO/IEC 10646 character, including tab, carriage
>>    ;; return, and line feed but excluding the other C0 control
>>    ;; characters, the surrogate blocks, and the noncharacters
>>    yang-char =3D %x09 / %x0A / %x0D / %x20-D7FF /
>>                                ; exclude surrogate blocks %xD800-DFFF
>>               %xE000-FDCF /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFDD0-FDEF
>>               %xFDF0-FFFD /    ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFE-FFFF
>>               %x10000-1FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x1FFFE-1FFFF
>>               %x20000-2FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x2FFFE-2FFFF
>>               %x30000-3FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x3FFFE-3FFFF
>>               %x40000-4FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x4FFFE-4FFFF
>>               %x50000-5FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x5FFFE-5FFFF
>>               %x60000-6FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x6FFFE-6FFFF
>>               %x70000-7FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x7FFFE-7FFFF
>>               %x80000-8FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x8FFFE-8FFFF
>>               %x90000-9FFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %x9FFFE-9FFFF
>>               %xA0000-AFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xAFFFE-AFFFF
>>               %xB0000-BFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xBFFFE-BFFFF
>>               %xC0000-CFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xCFFFE-CFFFF
>>               %xD0000-DFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xDFFFE-DFFFF
>>               %xE0000-EFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xEFFFE-EFFFF
>>               %xF0000-FFFFD /  ; exclude noncharacters %xFFFFE-FFFFF
>>               %x100000-10FFFD  ; exclude noncharacters %x10FFFE-10FFFF
>>=20
>> However, this is the intent as this is support for implementations that =
don't support key-chains (RFC 8177). The "Security Considerations" recommen=
d key chains. We'll add the hexadecimal specification as another reason for=
 preferring key-chains.=20
>
> Okay, that's enough to resolve the discuss.
>
>>=20=20
>>=20=20=20
>>     (2) Do we need to say anything about how to indicate when there are
>>     discontinuities for the various "counter" types?
>>=20
>> I've never heard any mention of counter discontinuities in the context o=
f OSPF control plane counters.=20
>
> Oh, I think this is more of a YANG thing than an OSPF thing (and I'm hard=
ly
> a YANG expert).  That is, the yang:counter32 and similar types are
> constrained to only ever increment ("count events that happened", roughly=
),
> as opposed to a gauge32 that measures the current level of something and
> can go up or down, or a generic uint32.  Of course, in the real world
> software crashes or restarts, so a YANG consumer might in practice see the
> value of a "counter" type go backwards, even though that's forbidden by t=
he
> spec.  In some cases (and I don't know exactly when it becomes most

In fact, such occassions are taken into account in the definition of the ya=
ng:counter32 type [RFC6991]. The ietf-ospf also properly describes, for eac=
h use of that type, the situations when a discontinuity may occur.=20

> relevant), the YANG model includes a "discontinuity time" (e.g., router
> restart time) to indicate when the counters were last reset to zero, in
> order to give consumers a sense for how long it took the counter to get
> that big.  It's entirely possible that this doesn't make sense for the OS=
PF
> counters, and if you tell me that I'm happy to clear.

Another means for learning about discontinuities may be notifications - for=
 example, a discontinuity in nbr-event-count can probably be inferred from =
the nbr-state-change notification.

Lada


>
> Searching for "RFC YANG discontinuity" brings up several representative
> results, such as RFC 8343, which says:
>
>            leaf discontinuity-time {
>              type yang:date-and-time;
>              mandatory true;
>              description
>                "The time on the most recent occasion at which any one or
>                 more of this interface's counters suffered a
>                 discontinuity.  If no such discontinuities have occurred
>                 since the last re-initialization of the local management
>                 subsystem, then this node contains the time the local
>                 management subsystem re-initialized itself.";
>
>
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     --------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>     COMMENT:
>>     --------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     I'm happy to see the discussion around Roman's Discuss.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Section 1
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>        YANG [RFC6020][RFC7950] is a data definition language used to def=
ine
>>        the contents of a conceptual data store that allows networked dev=
ices
>>        to be managed using NETCONF [RFC6241].  YANG is proving relevant
>>        beyond its initial confines, as bindings to other interfaces (e.g=
.,
>>        ReST) and encodings other than XML (e.g., JSON) are being defined.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     This text feels a bit stale at this point.
>>=20
>> Updated in -27.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Section 2
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>        model varies among router vendors.  Differences are observed in t=
erms
>>        of how the protocol instance is tied to the routing domain, how
>>        multiple protocol instances are be instantiated among others.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: the grammar here is a bit odd, with the comma suggesting the st=
art
>>     of a list but no "and" present.
>>=20
>> Fixed in -27.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Section 2.2
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>        The ospf module is intended to match to the vendor specific OSPF
>>        configuration construct that is identified by the local identifier
>>        'name'.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     I don't really understand what this is intended to mean.
>>=20
>> I removed this paragraph and augmented the next one.
>
> Thanks; it makes a lot more sense to me now.
>
>>     Section 2.7
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     hello-timer in the module claims to be a rt-types:timer-value-second=
s16
>>     but shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32.
>>     Similarly, the wait-itmer is a rt-types:timer-value-seconds32, which
>>     also shows up in the tree(s) as a uint32, which is perhaps more
>>     reasonable but perhaps not entirely accurate.
>>     Other 'timer' leafs seem to have similar issues.
>>=20
>> Fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Section 3
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          feature ospfv2-authentication-trailer {
>>            description
>>              "Use OSPFv2 authentication trailer for OSPFv2
>>               authentication.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Is the feature for "use" or "support for"?
>>     (Similarly for the ospfv3 authentication features.)
>>=20
>> The latter - fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          identity ospfv2-lsa-option {
>>            description
>>              "Baes idenity for OSPFv2 LSA option flags.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: "Base"
>>=20
>> Fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          identity v2-p-bit {
>>            base ospfv2-lsa-option;
>>            description
>>              "Only used in type-7 LSA. When set, an NSSA
>>               border router should translate the type-7 LSA
>>               to a type-5 LSA.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     There seem to be a few "identity <foo>-bit" stanzas whose descriptio=
n do
>>     not mention the named bit specifically (but many that do).  Do we wa=
nt
>>     to be consistent about doing so?  (Likewise for <foo>-flag.)
>>=20
>> Made these consistent. This was added very late when we realized that YA=
NG type bit is not extendable.=20
>
> The YANG type bit is not extendable?!  I'll have to remebmer that for the
> future...
>
>>          grouping tlv {
>>            description
>>              "Type-Length-Value (TLV)";
>>            leaf type {
>>              type uint16;
>>              description "TLV type.";
>>            }
>>            leaf length {
>>              type uint16;
>>              description "TLV length (octets).";
>>            }
>>            leaf value {
>>              type yang:hex-string;
>>              description "TLV value.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Is there a way to apply a constraint so the 'length' matches the
>>     hext-string's length?
>>=20
>> Since this is returned operational data, it doesn't make a lot of sense =
to put constraints on it. It is basically what the router returns. If it is=
 wrong, it wouldn't have been parsed correctly in the first place.=20
>
> Ah, good point.
>
>>          grouping router-capabilities-tlv {
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     The various descriptions hereunder could perhaps benefit from section
>>     references, as, e.g., two nodes named "informational-capabilities" m=
ay
>>     otherwise require some effort to distinguish.  Well, aside from the =
fact
>>     that one is currently listed as "capabilitiess" with two esses, which
>>     seems unlikely to be intended.
>>=20
>> I fixed the description on these to differential between the list uint32=
 flags and the identities.
>
> Thanks (BTW please double-check the description for "leaf functional-flag=
",
> that currenty looks like "Individual informational capability flag.")
>
>>          grouping ospf-router-lsa-bits {
>>            container rputer-bits {
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     s/rputer/router/?
>>=20
>> Fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>              container te-opaque {
>>                [...]
>>                container link-tlv {
>>                  description "Describes a singel link, and it is constru=
cted
>>                  of a set of Sub-TLVs.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     s/singel/single/
>>=20
>> Fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          grouping ospfv3-lsa-external {
>>            [...]
>>            leaf referenced-link-state-id {
>>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     RFC 5340 section 2.2 implies that the Link State ID is going to be a
>>     32-bit identifier that need not be represented as dotted-quad, as it
>>     does not have addressing semantics.  (dotted-quad seems to be used f=
or
>>     Link-State-ID-shaped things elsewhere, too, though the preferred form
>>     may be the union of dotted-quad and uint32.)
>>=20
>> Good catch. This should be unit32 for OSPFv3. There were two instances o=
f this.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          grouping lsa-common {
>>            description
>>                "Common fields for OSPF LSA representation.";
>>            leaf decode-completed {
>>              type boolean;
>>              description
>>                "The OSPF LSA body was successfully decoded other than
>>                 unknown TLVs. Unknown LSAs types and OSPFv2 unknown
>>                 opaque LSA types are not decoded. Additionally,
>>                 malformed LSAs are generally not accepted and are
>>                 not be in the Link State Database.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: "are not be" is not grammatical.
>>=20
>> Fixed - "will not be".
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>          grouping lsa-key {
>>            description
>>              "OSPF LSA key.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     This could maybe benefit from a more descriptive description; is thi=
s a
>>     sort or lookup key, for example?
>>=20
>> Yes - I've improved.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>            container database {
>>              description "Container for per AS-scope LSA statistics.";
>>              list as-scope-lsa-type {
>>                [...]
>>                leaf lsa-cksum-sum {
>>                  type uint32;
>>                  description
>>                    "The sum of the LSA checksums of the LSA type.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     [It's not entirely clear to me why this sum-of-checksums is a useful
>>     thing to track, but it may not be this document's role to do so.
>>     Though, perhaps we do need to say if the sum is computed as integers
>>     modulo 2**32.]
>>=20
>> This is from the OSPF MIB (RFC 4750). It is not used functionally as one=
 cannot guarantee differing LSDBs will not yield the same checksum. However=
, if the checksums are different, you can assure the databases are differen=
t.=20
>
> Thanks for the extra text -- it helps confirm my guess as to what's going
> on.
>
>>            leaf transmit-delay {
>>              type uint16;
>>              units seconds;
>>              description
>>                "Estimated time needed to transmit Link State Update
>>                 (LSU) packets on the interface (seconds). LSAs have
>>                 their age incremented by this amount on advertised
>>                 on the interface. A sample value would be 1 second.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: "on advertised on" does not seem grammatical.
>>=20
>> Fixed - "when advertised on".
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>            leaf lls {
>>            [...]
>>            container ttl-security {
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Should these have a default value?
>>=20
>> I think 1 would be appropriate since only virtual-links and sham-links r=
equire more.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>                case ospfv3-auth-ipsec {
>>                  when "derived-from-or-self(../../../../../../rt:type, "
>>                    +  "'ospfv3')" {
>>                    description "Applied to OSPFv3 only.";
>>                  }
>>                  if-feature ospfv3-authentication-ipsec;
>>                  leaf sa {
>>                      type string;
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     I don't see RFC 4552 talking about names for SAs; where would this be
>>     discussed (and, are they guaranteed to be human-readable)?
>>=20
>> If it is not human readable, how would it be configured?=20
>
> I wasn't sure if this was config or operational state, but you make a good
> point.
>
>>                leaf poll-interval {
>>                  type uint16;
>>                  units seconds;
>>                  description
>>                    "Neighbor poll interval (seconds) for sending OSPF
>>                     hello packets to discover the neighbor on NBMA
>>                     networks. This interval dictates the granularity for
>>                     discovery of new neighbors. A sample would be 2 minu=
tes
>>                     for a legacy Packet Data Network (PDN) X.25 network.=
";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Maybe "2 minutes (120 seconds)" since the units are seconds?
>>=20
>> Fixed.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>            container preference {
>>              description
>>                "Route preference configuration In many
>>                 implementations, preference is referred to as
>>                 administrative distance.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: missing sentence break?
>>=20
>> Fixed.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     For the spf- and lsa-logs, do we require that the 'id' is assigned in
>>     any particular order, or do we just rely on the included timestamp(s)
>>     for any time-ordering required by the consumer?
>>=20
>> I added ordering to the description of the spf-log and lsa-log. However,=
 the id is a purely internal value to provide a uniqueness key for the YANG=
 list.=20
>
> Understood, and thanks.
>
>>          grouping notification-neighbor {
>>            [...]
>>            leaf neighbor-ip-addr {
>>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>>              description "Neighbor address.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     neighbors can only be identified by IPv4 addresses?
>>=20
>> Changed to IP address type.
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>            leaf packet-source {
>>              type yang:dotted-quad;
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     packet sources, too? (multiple times)
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>> Changed to IP address type.=20
>>=20
>>            description
>>              "This notification is sent when aa neighbor
>>               state change is detected.";
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     nit: s/aa/a/
>>=20
>> Fixed.=20
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     Section 4
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>        Additionally, local specificationn of OSPF authentication keys and
>>        the associated authentication algorithm is supported for legacy
>>        implementations that do not support key-chains [RFC8177] for lega=
cy
>>        implementations that do not support key-chains.  It is RECOMMENDED
>>        that implementations migrate to key-chains due the seamless suppo=
rt
>>        of key and algorithm rollover, as well as, the encryption of key
>>        using the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) Key Wrap Padding
>>        Algorithm [RFC5649].
>>=20=20=20=20=20
>>     (Roman caught the nits, so I won't duplicate that.)
>>     I expected to see something about keeping the actual key material
>>     secret, as well.
>>=20
>> Can you suggest some text?
>
> How's this?
>
> The actual authentication key data (whether locally specified or part of a
> key-chain) is sensitive and needs to be kept secret from unauthorized
> parties; compromise of the key data would allow an attacker to forge OSPF
> traffic that would be accepted as authentic, potentially compromising the
> entirey OSPF domain.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--=20
Ladislav Lhotka=20
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67


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Subject: [Lsr] Protocol Action: 'OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels'
  (draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-07.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Link State Routing Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Deborah Brungard and Martin
Vigoureux.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te/





Technical Summary

      This document specifies extensions to OSPF Traffic Engineering 
      to include allow tunnel endpoints for both IPv4 and IPv6 to be
      advertised in the OSPF traffic engineering LSAs for either OSPFv2
      or OSPFv3. In cases where the topologies are congruent, this allows
      TE information to be only advertised in one of the two.

      Non-normative text also describes how this information is used
      across address families in the TE tunnel computation.

Working Group Summary

      There has been some confusion on how this is used and the draft
      has gone through iterations to separate the normative advertisement
      from the TE tunnel computation itself. This has now been clarified 
      and there are no objections to the draft. 

Document Quality

      This document has been a WG document for a multiple years.
      It is stable, without changes to the technical solution and only
      clarifications, as well as, separation of the advertisement from
      the TE tunnel computation. 

Personnel

      Acee Lindem is the Document Shepherd.
      Martin Vigoureux is the Responsible AD, on behalf of Alvaro Retana


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR Disclosure Juniper's Statement about IPR related to draft-decraene-lsr-isis-flooding-speed
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From nobody Wed Aug 28 08:31:20 2019
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding
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Hi WG,

First, IANAL.

It may be worth noting that in this IPR disclosure the licensing is not =
the "normal" patent protection type (i.e., "use freely as long as you =
don't sue us on some other patent").

Thanks,
Chris.

> On Aug 14, 2019, at 10:09 AM, IETF Secretariat <ietf-ipr@ietf.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Dear Tony Li, Peter Psenak, Les Ginsberg, Huaimo Chen, Tony =
Przygienda, Dave Cooper, Luay Jalil, Srinath Dontula:
>=20
>=20
> An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled =
"Dynamic
> Flooding on Dense Graphs" (draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding) was =
submitted to
> the IETF Secretariat on  and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
> Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3684/). The title of the IPR =
disclosure is
> "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR related to
> draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding"
>=20
>=20
> Thank you
>=20
> IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20


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From: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/KRiIWhir-5i_-fg1ON71-JD7TY8>
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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--_000_CH2PR13MB34627356CECA59C9E442D16686A30CH2PR13MB3462namp_
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Can anybody tell what was the conclusion (if any) in previous discussions i=
n various WGs on why the readable label depth in an LSR has to be entropy l=
abel specific ?

IOW can we just modify this as "readable label depth" as opposed to "entrop=
y readable label depth" ?
This would allow any other special purpose label inserted in the stack and =
would be at par with current MSD type "Base MPLS Imposition MSD" ( https://=
www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml ).


--
Uma C.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can anybody tell what was the conclusion (if any) in=
 previous discussions in various WGs on why the readable label depth in an =
LSR has to be entropy label specific ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IOW can we just modify this as &#8220;readable label=
 depth&#8221; as opposed to &#8220;entropy readable label depth&#8221; ?<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This would allow any other special purpose label ins=
erted in the stack and would be at par with current MSD type &#8220;Base MP=
LS Imposition MSD&#8221; (
<a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.x=
html">https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml<=
/a> ).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></p>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Uma -

Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-labe=
l-12#section-4

In short, we do not assume that EL Load Balancing can be performed for gene=
ric MSD.

Thanx.

   Les


From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:38 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07

Can anybody tell what was the conclusion (if any) in previous discussions i=
n various WGs on why the readable label depth in an LSR has to be entropy l=
abel specific ?

IOW can we just modify this as "readable label depth" as opposed to "entrop=
y readable label depth" ?
This would allow any other special purpose label inserted in the stack and =
would be at par with current MSD type "Base MPLS Imposition MSD" ( https://=
www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml ).


--
Uma C.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Uma &#8211;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please read <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/d=
raft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-12#section-4">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-12#section=
-4</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In short, we do not assume that EL Load Balancing ca=
n be performed for generic MSD.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanx.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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4.0pt">
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>
Uma Chunduri<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can anybody tell what was the conclusion (if any) in=
 previous discussions in various WGs on why the readable label depth in an =
LSR has to be entropy label specific ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IOW can we just modify this as &#8220;readable label=
 depth&#8221; as opposed to &#8220;entropy readable label depth&#8221; ?<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This would allow any other special purpose label ins=
erted in the stack and would be at par with current MSD type &#8220;Base MP=
LS Imposition MSD&#8221; (
<a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.x=
html">https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml<=
/a> ).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
Thread-Index: AQHVXd/ksSeWFROOokmGeVd/cL8YDqcRBXTQ///B0oCAAEPG8P//xdoA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:30:46 +0000
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:00:40 -0700
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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References: <BAE7E3E4-F817-43DA-BA7E-34E31A16E562@cisco.com> <BYAPR11MB3638247F602F41AC87FB3E16C1A30@BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <4BBEA66D-0B41-43E6-8CDE-1E0428988718@cisco.com> <BYAPR11MB3638B39096DD691416307957C1A30@BYAPR11MB3638.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <2C160FA5-28ED-4B07-8A37-5F1A7E5AB73E@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/guQDpPhfovYvWiFhNbQv7BtIdNw>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Acee,

I agree with your statement.
We (MSD DE=E2=80=99s) have OKed temporary allocation.
I believe WGLC would be in place.

Regards,
Jeff

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 14:30, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Uma,
> =20
> The draft states that an explicit ERLD is required. I=E2=80=99m not a forw=
arding ASIC expert so I can=E2=80=99t envision all the trade-offs but I cert=
ainly don=E2=80=99t see much risk in continuing with the ERLD as this has be=
en in the drafts for some time.
> =20
> All,
> =20
> I=E2=80=99d like to Working Group Last Call these drafts as I believe they=
 are ready and we even have some implementation momentum. Anyone disagree?
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:59 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com=
>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Point taken=E2=80=A6
> =20
>   Les
> =20
> From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:56 PM
> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Uma Chunduri <uma.chundu=
ri@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Les,
> =20
> Then what you meant in your response was, =E2=80=9Cgeneric RLD=E2=80=9D as=
 opposed to =E2=80=9Cgeneric MSD=E2=80=9D.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:46 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com=
>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Acee =E2=80=93
> =20
> I do understand the question =E2=80=93 and I believe the reference I cited=
 provides the answer. You need to read the referenced draft.
> =20
> If you have a cogent argument why it is safe to assume that the combinatio=
n of actions required to support EL translate to any other type of activity t=
hat might be required on a label stack, please make it. Then Uma=E2=80=99s s=
uggestion might make sense.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:34 PM
> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Uma Chunduri <uma.chundu=
ri@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Hi Les,
> I think the question is whether there can be a single RLD depth MSD rather=
 than a RLD solely for entropy label discovery.
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <g=
insberg@cisco.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:29 PM
> To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.or=
g>
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Uma =E2=80=93
> =20
> Please read https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-lab=
el-12#section-4
> =20
> In short, we do not assume that EL Load Balancing can be performed for gen=
eric MSD.
> =20
> Thanx.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Uma Chunduri
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:38 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
> =20
> Can anybody tell what was the conclusion (if any) in previous discussions i=
n various WGs on why the readable label depth in an LSR has to be entropy la=
bel specific ?
> =20
> IOW can we just modify this as =E2=80=9Creadable label depth=E2=80=9D as o=
pposed to =E2=80=9Centropy readable label depth=E2=80=9D ?
> This would allow any other special purpose label inserted in the stack and=
 would be at par with current MSD type =E2=80=9CBase MPLS Imposition MSD=E2=80=
=9D ( https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml )=
.
> =20
> =20
> --
> Uma C.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--Apple-Mail-1FC8FD19-EDF8-49CE-B204-A56CA6AE9DEB
Content-Type: text/html;
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Acee,<div><br></div><div>I agree with your s=
tatement.</div><div>We (MSD DE=E2=80=99s) have OKed temporary allocation.</d=
iv><div>I believe WGLC would be in place.<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignatu=
re" dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Aug 28,=
 2019, at 14:30, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">ac=
ee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D=
"ltr">

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Uma, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft states that an explicit ERLD is required. I=
=E2=80=99m not a forwarding ASIC expert so I can=E2=80=99t envision all the t=
rade-offs but I certainly don=E2=80=99t see much risk in continuing with the=
 ERLD as this has been in the drafts for some time.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99d like to Working Group Last Call these dra=
fts as I believe they are ready and we even have some implementation momentu=
m. Anyone disagree?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">"Les Ginsberg (ginsb=
erg)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:59 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt;, Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@futurewei.com">uma.=
chunduri@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, "<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.or=
g</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Point taken=E2=80=A6<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;Les<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Acee Lindem (=
acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com"=
>ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri=
@futurewei.com">uma.chunduri@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ie=
tf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Les, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Then what you meant in you=
r response was, =E2=80=9Cgeneric RLD=E2=80=9D as opposed to =E2=80=9Cgeneric=
 MSD=E2=80=9D.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<br>
Acee <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">"Les Ginsberg (ginsb=
erg)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:46 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt;, Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@futurewei.com">uma.=
chunduri@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, "<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.or=
g</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">Acee =E2=80=93<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">I do understand the quest=
ion =E2=80=93 and I believe the reference I cited provides the answer. You n=
eed to read the referenced draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">If you have a cogent argu=
ment why it is safe to assume that the combination of actions required to su=
pport EL translate to any other type of activity that might be required on a=
 label stack, please make it. Then
 Uma=E2=80=99s suggestion might make sense.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in"><b>From:</b> Acee Lindem (=
acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com"=
>ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri=
@futurewei.com">uma.chunduri@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">Hi Les, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">I think the question is w=
hether there can be a single RLD depth MSD rather than a RLD solely for entr=
opy label discovery.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of "Les G=
insberg (ginsberg)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 4:29 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Uma Chunduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:uma.chunduri@futurewei.com">um=
a.chunduri@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, "<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.=
org</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">Uma =E2=80=93<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">Please read <a href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-12#section-4"=
>
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-spring-entropy-label-12#section-=
4</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">In short, we do not assum=
e that EL Load Balancing can be performed for generic MSD.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">Thanx.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Uma Chunduri<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">Can anybody tell what was=
 the conclusion (if any) in previous discussions in various WGs on why the r=
eadable label depth in an LSR has to be entropy label specific ?<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">IOW can we just modify th=
is as =E2=80=9Creadable label depth=E2=80=9D as opposed to =E2=80=9Centropy r=
eadable label depth=E2=80=9D ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">This would allow any othe=
r special purpose label inserted in the stack and would be at par with curre=
nt MSD type =E2=80=9CBase MPLS Imposition MSD=E2=80=9D (
<a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xh=
tml">https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml</a=
> ).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in">Uma C.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>________=
_______________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr mailing list</sp=
an><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><spa=
n><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] Working Group Last Call for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using ISIS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [mpls] Working Group Last Call for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using ISIS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
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From: Sri <sriganeshkini@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:24:46 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/y5KEjX0YLDSUyukWsByhvWllJlw>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS" - draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07
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--000000000000be4b8f05916a81fd
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I am not aware of any IPR

-
Sri

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:11 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Authors,
>
>
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07?
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
>
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
>
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
>
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
>
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
>
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
>
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000be4b8f05916a81fd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">I am not aware of any IPR<div><br></div><div>-</div><div>S=
ri</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:11 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4654225793863871794WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">Authors,=
=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">Are you a=
ware of any IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-07?</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">If so, ha=
s this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0</span><sp=
an style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">(see RFCs=
 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">If you ar=
e listed as a document author or contributor please respond</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">to this e=
mail regardless of whether or not you are aware of any</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">relevant =
IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">list.* Th=
e document will not advance to the next stage until a</span><span style=3D"=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">response =
has been received from each author and contributor.</span><span style=3D"co=
lor:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">If you ar=
e on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or</span><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">contribut=
or, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of</span><span sty=
le=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">any IPR t=
hat has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.</span><span =
style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">=C2=A0</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">Thanks,</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;color:black">Acee</spa=
n><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000be4b8f05916a81fd--


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From: Sri <sriganeshkini@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:25:52 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOndX-vDJAMCM2Q-Qhk3bgsexWBN49i0Pr9YQTNR2DxTRi4dsg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/wMJ7yKxKHyV_B76PiqnrLnElTBc>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label-stack Depth Using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08 (Updated Subject)
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I am not aware of any IPR

-
Sri

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:10 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Friday, August 30, 2019 at 3:06 PM
> *To: *"draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *"Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable
> Label-stack Depth Using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08
>
>
>
> Authors,
>
>
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08?
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
>
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
>
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
>
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
>
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
>
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
>
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I am not aware of any IPR<div><br></div><div>-</div><div>S=
ri</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 12:10 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5222460096979755783WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"color:=
black">From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"color:black">Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, August 30, 2019 at 3:06 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-mp=
ls-elc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>&quot;Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readab=
le Label-stack Depth Using OSPF&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-08<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Authors,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-e=
lc-08?
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=
=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">response has been received from each author and contributor.</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author =
or</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rul=
es.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Acee</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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