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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>, "shraddha@juniper.net" <shraddha@juniper.net>, "cfilsfil@cisco.com" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>, "ketant@cisco.com" <ketant@cisco.com>, "arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com" <arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 11:57:21 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] SRLG usage in the IGP Flexible Algorithm draft
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Alexander,

On 30/04/2020 17:21, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a question about the proposed usage of SRLG in the IGP Flexible 
> Algorithm <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07> draft.
> 
> This usage is defined Section 12 of the draft with the reference to the 
> SRLG exclude rule as following:
> 
> 
> 
>        2.  Check if any exclude SRLG rule is part of the Flex-Algorithm
> 
>        definition.  If such exclude rule exists, check if the link is
> 
>        part of any SRLG that is also part of the SRLG exclude rule.  If
> 
>        the link is part of such SRLG, the link MUST be pruned from the
> 
>        computation.
> 
> This looks effectively undistinguishable from the usage of the exclude 
> Admin groups rule as described in the same Section 12 of the draft:
> 
>        1.  Check if any exclude rule is part of the Flex-Algorithm
> 
>        definition.  If such exclude rule exists, check if any color that
> 
>        is part of the exclude rule is also set on the link.  If such a
> 
>        color is set, the link MUST be pruned from the computation.
> 
>  From my POV, with such a definition, there is no need in the dedicated 
> “Exclude SRLG” rule as part of the specification of the Flexible 
> Algorithm, since such the SRLG Exclude rule can be replaced with a 
> matching Exclude All rule  using Admin groups.

there is one very important point. Maintaining the affinities is 
operationally complex. Some networks have already deployed SRLGs. If 
SRLG exclude with flex-algo gives people what they want, asking them to 
deploy affinities would be redundant. That's the main point.

Simple use case:

I have two SRLGs in the network. For some specific traffic I want to 
send the data via two independent streams. I want to avoid single SRLG 
failure to affect both streams. I define two flex-algos, each one 
excluding one SRLG. No need to define extra affinities. This is btw not 
an academical example, this has been requested by real users.


> 
> I also think that such a usage of SRLG does not fit the needs of the 
> TI-LFA 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa-03> 
> draft that considers an SRLG as a resource that fails when any of the 
> links/nodes comprising it fails. E.g., it says in Section 2:
> 
>     The Point of Local Repair (PLR), S, needs to find a node Q (a repair
> 
>     node) that is capable of safely forwarding the traffic to a
> 
>     destination D affected by the failure of the protected link L, a set
> 
>     of links including L (SRLG), or the node F itself.  The PLR also
> 
>     needs to find a way to reach Q without being affected by the
> 
>     convergence state of the nodes over the paths it wants to use to
> 
>     reach Q: the PLR needs a loop-free path to reach Q.

I see no conflict between the LFA draft and flex-algo one. If you do, 
please be precise where the conflict is.

> 
> To me this suggests that SRLGs are only relevant when computing backup 
> paths for specific failures, e.g., an LFA for failure of a link hat 
> belongs to a specific SRLG must be computed in the topology from which 
> all the links belonging to the same SRLG are pruned. This understanding 
> matches RFC 4090 that states in Section 6.2 “Procedures for Backup Path 
> Computation”:

SRLG is a mechanism to express fate share. I see no reason why SRLG 
could not be used for other than LFA purposes.

thanks,
Peter


> 
>        - The backup LSP cannot traverse the downstream node and/or link
> 
>          whose failure is being protected against.  Note that if the PLR
> 
>          is the penultimate hop, node protection is not possible, and
> 
>          only the downstream link can be avoided. The backup path may be
> 
>          computed to be SRLG disjoint from the downstream node and/or
> 
>          link being avoided.
> 
> If SRLGs are only relevant for computation of backup paths, it is not 
> clear to me if they should be part of the definition of a specific 
> Flexible Algorithm.
> 
> What, if anything, did I miss?
> 
> Regards, and lots of thanks in advance,
> 
> Sasha
> 
> Office: +972-39266302
> 
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "shraddha@juniper.net" <shraddha@juniper.net>, "cfilsfil@cisco.com" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>, "ketant@cisco.com" <ketant@cisco.com>, "arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com" <arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: SRLG usage in the IGP Flexible Algorithm draft
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Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 07:46:19 +0000
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To: Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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> On Apr 30, 2020, at 9:57 AM, Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>=20
> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

Hi Henk,

Thanks for the thoughtful writeup. Let's not be too cynical at the start =
though! :)

I'd note that our environment is a bit more controlled than the =
end-to-end internet environment. In IS-IS we are dealing with single =
link (logical) so very simple solutions (CTS/RTS, ethernet PAUSE) could =
be viable. That aside, yes, there are queues and opportunity for loss =
between the receiving linecard interface and the IS-IS process on the =
router, but that path is much more accessible (controllable) to the =
control loop than all the routers and networks between 2 endpoints for =
an internet TCP connection.

Also, while it's generally accepted that end-to-end internet based =
protocols need to be TCP friendly (e.g., the datagram-based congestion =
control algorithms (DCCP)), I'm not sure this requirement needs to be =
applied the same way for IS-IS. Thus our choice of algorithms may well =
be less restricted.

Thanks,
Chris.
[as WG member]


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From: Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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Group,

			I think we/you are looking at two different =
problems: 1) a hop count of 1 or maybe two between the two end points 2) =
and the multiple / many hop count between the two end points.

			RFC3649 does a =E2=80=9Cship-in-the night=E2=80=9D=
 type implementation of #1, where there is an excess of capacity between =
the two end points. It also IMO addresses the ability to burst and then =
close a shorter term connection.

			Thus, I think that your issue is mostly the #2 =
problem and the problem that most CA algorithms IMO always try to =
increase capacity and thus at some point must exceed capacity. TCP must =
find a range of capacity per flow (assuming a consistent a number of =
packets per sec). However, what is maybe missed (I missed it in the =
document) is the ability not to overshoot the TCP threshold point and =
trigger multiple initial congestion events in/exiting the slow-start =
phase.

FYI:  My implementations tend to try to identify a connection of =
packets-per-sec with a range using prime numbers, and possibly identify =
excess capacity and subdivide that capacity into future multiple =
connections. This type of implementation is much easier to do from a =
server, that implements the #1 scenario above where the server is one of =
the end points.


Mitchell Erblich
erblichs@earthlink.net



> On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:57 AM, Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
> That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS =
flooding.
>=20
> My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to
> optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of =
TCP.
> I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.
> But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
>=20
>=20
> What does TCP do:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
>=20
> 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being
> overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size
> in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
> 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links =
between
> sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an =
educated
> guess at what speed it can send.
>=20
>=20
> The part we seem to be missing:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at
> how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?
> Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate
> as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able
> to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
>=20
> If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,
> without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is =
look
> at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs =
can
> not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not =
immediately
> send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the =
PSNP,
> like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a =
little
> to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
>=20
> In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the
> receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This
> is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
> fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information
> a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than =
what
> TCP can learn from incoming acks.
>=20
>=20
> The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5 =
seconds.
> And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means =
that
> the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5 =
seconds.
> For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and =
whenever
> they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about
> flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes
> a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
>=20
> When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the
> full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped =
LSPs.
> If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will =
probably
> not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might =
send
> hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or
> partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
>=20
>=20
> A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a
> multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a =
congestion-control
> algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more
> specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do =
PSNPs
> under load.
>=20
> Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller) =
PSNPs.
> More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
>=20
>=20
> Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
>=20
> I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs
> 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
>=20
> As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the =
receiving
> router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on
> interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A =
receiver
> can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper =
bound
> to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a =
flow-control
> window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both. Maybe =
the
> receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in =
the
> future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
>=20
>=20
> What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks =
(LANs).
>=20
> When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections
> introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP =
connections ?
> Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS =
?
> There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy =
quickly.
>=20
> However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.
> How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine =
whether
> there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most =
LSPs
> that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There =
are
> no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send
> PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to
> me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust =
their
> sending speed accordingly.
>=20
> When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best. =
Because
> all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make
> sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not =
sure
> this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than
> ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
>=20
>=20
> My conclusion:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more
> detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's
> good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good =
enough.
> But it's a start.
>=20
> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.
>=20
>=20
> henk.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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Mitchell,

> 			I think we/you are looking at two different =
problems: 1) a hop count of 1 or maybe two between the two end points 2) =
and the multiple / many hop count between the two end points.


IS-IS adjacencies are always between immediate L3 neighbors, ignoring =
strange things like tunneling.


> 			Thus, I think that your issue is mostly the #2 =
problem and the problem that most CA algorithms IMO always try to =
increase capacity and thus at some point must exceed capacity. TCP must =
find a range of capacity per flow (assuming a consistent a number of =
packets per sec). However, what is maybe missed (I missed it in the =
document) is the ability not to overshoot the TCP threshold point and =
trigger multiple initial congestion events in/exiting the slow-start =
phase.


Modern router designs have interface bandwidths from 10-400Gb/s.  The =
CPU would be hard pressed to supply 1Gb/s, therefore for most of the =
circumstances that we=E2=80=99re concerned about, the link capacity is =
never the issue.

Tony


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Inline=E2=80=A6

Mitchell Erblich
Implementation of IS-IS for Extreme Networks in what seems Eons ago=E2=80=A6=

erblichs@earthlink.net



> On May 3, 2020, at 11:12 PM, tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Mitchell,
>=20
>> 			I think we/you are looking at two different =
problems: 1) a hop count of 1 or maybe two between the two end points 2) =
and the multiple / many hop count between the two end points.
>=20
>=20
> IS-IS adjacencies are always between immediate L3 neighbors, ignoring =
strange things like tunneling.

IS-IS has two levels of neighbors via hello level 1s (LSAs) and hello =
level  2s :, so immediate is somewhat relative..

>=20
>=20
>> 			Thus, I think that your issue is mostly the #2 =
problem and the problem that most CA algorithms IMO always try to =
increase capacity and thus at some point must exceed capacity. TCP must =
find a range of capacity per flow (assuming a consistent a number of =
packets per sec). However, what is maybe missed (I missed it in the =
document) is the ability not to overshoot the TCP threshold point and =
trigger multiple initial congestion events in/exiting the slow-start =
phase.
>=20
>=20
> Modern router designs have interface bandwidths from 10-400Gb/s.  The =
CPU would be hard pressed to supply 1Gb/s, therefore for most of the =
circumstances that we=E2=80=99re concerned about, the link capacity is =
never the issue.

	Sorry, I disagree ,, Link capacity is always an issue.. wrt to =
video we now have 4k/8.3mpixels video streams with 8k support at the TV =
in the near future. And as you mentioned 400Gb via Link Aggregation=E2=80=A6=
 Whether a single or multiple 1 core, 4core or more is used and the =
speed of the Eth interface(s) is based on the platform. I would assume =
that hello 2 level neighbors / adjacencies would be more WAN based and =
thus stresses a router=E2=80=99s link capacity more than a standard =
neighbors via hello 1s=E2=80=A6=20

		Even more grey scale or the number of different colors =
of pixels require more link capacity=E2=80=A6

		Pixelation on your TV is based on either link capacity =
or not being able to process the packets, and thus either get dropped or =
just skipped.

		Even compression consumes CPU processing a requires an =
=E2=80=9Centire frame=E2=80=9D / partial frame to be recieved before the =
frame can be processed.

		If we jump to OSPF it is the DRs and BDRs, I would =
assume consume more link capacity, than DRothers (note; does not use =
TCP).=20

		So, link capacity and/or packet-per-sec processing Will =
always be an issue in some/many environments, and is more so with IPv4 =
due to fragmentation given fixed input queue/fifos sizes, and whether =
the router then does tail drops, or REDS (random early discards), or =
does delay of dropping an adjacency because it is processing a massive =
number of LSAs and has not processed the hello,,, Please tell me 1 =
router can process say 1GByte of min sized packets at wire speeds of say =
400Gb/sec, via echo requests/responses=E2=80=A6 aka 1 million pings as a =
quick stress test..

 Even with long enough FIFOs, don=E2=80=99t we have longer latencies as =
we queue up the packets? This is a side effect of link capacity=E2=80=A6=20=


	Even limiting the number of routers in a area and having slower =
or faster convergence, is based on link capacity and CPU capacity,,, aka =
the platform

>=20
> Tony
>=20


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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] SRLG usage in the IGP Flexible Algorithm draft
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Hi Sasha,

On 03/05/2020 09:46, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
> Peter,
> 
> Lots of thanks for a prompt response.
> 
> My reading of your response is as following:
> 
> There are two different ways in which SRLG information can be used with 
> Flexible Algorithms:
> 
> 1.In a context of a single Flexible Algorithm, it can be used for 
> computation of backup paths (e.g., as described in the TI-LFA draft). 
> This usage does not require association of any specific SRLG with the 
> given Flexible Algorithm.
> 
> 2.In the context of multiple Flexible Algorithms it can be used for 
> creating disjoint sets of paths by pruning the links belonging to a 
> specific SRLG from the topology on which a specific Flexible Algorithm 
> computes its paths. This usage:
> 
> a.Extends the definition of the topology used by a given Flexible 
> Algorithm that can be defined using Admin groups (a.k.a. affinities)
> 
> b.Facilitates usage of already deployed SRLG configurations where such 
> configuration have been in place
> 
> c.Requires explicit association of a given Flexible Algorithm with a 
> specific set of SRLG as defined in the current Flex Algo draft.
> 
> The two usages mentioned above are strictly orthogonal.

yes, above is exactly right

> 
> If the understanding above is correct, it makes to me sense to add the 
> corresponding clarifying text to the draft.

sure, I will add it in a next version.

thanks,
Peter


> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sasha
> 
> Office: +972-39266302
> 
> Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 1, 2020 12:57 PM
> To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>; 
> shraddha@juniper.net; cfilsfil@cisco.com; ketant@cisco.com; 
> arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; rtgwg@ietf.org; Michael Gorokhovsky 
> <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>
> Subject: Re: SRLG usage in the IGP Flexible Algorithm draft
> 
> Alexander,
> 
> On 30/04/2020 17:21, Alexander Vainshtein wrote:
> 
>  > Hi all,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I have a question about the proposed usage of SRLG in the IGP Flexible
> 
>  > Algorithm 
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Wn8dBNRoEXXTU1kJz6RrsR6H2?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07> 
> draft.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > This usage is defined Section 12 of the draft with the reference to
> 
>  > the SRLG exclude rule as following:
> 
>  >
> 
>  >
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        2.  Check if any exclude SRLG rule is part of the
> 
>  > Flex-Algorithm
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        definition.  If such exclude rule exists, check if the link is
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        part of any SRLG that is also part of the SRLG exclude rule.
> 
>  > If
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        the link is part of such SRLG, the link MUST be pruned from the
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        computation.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > This looks effectively undistinguishable from the usage of the exclude
> 
>  > Admin groups rule as described in the same Section 12 of the draft:
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        1.  Check if any exclude rule is part of the Flex-Algorithm
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        definition.  If such exclude rule exists, check if any color
> 
>  > that
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        is part of the exclude rule is also set on the link.  If such a
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        color is set, the link MUST be pruned from the computation.
> 
>  >
> 
>  >  From my POV, with such a definition, there is no need in the
> 
>  > dedicated “Exclude SRLG” rule as part of the specification of the
> 
>  > Flexible Algorithm, since such the SRLG Exclude rule can be replaced
> 
>  > with a matching Exclude All rule  using Admin groups.
> 
> there is one very important point. Maintaining the affinities is 
> operationally complex. Some networks have already deployed SRLGs. If 
> SRLG exclude with flex-algo gives people what they want, asking them to 
> deploy affinities would be redundant. That's the main point.
> 
> Simple use case:
> 
> I have two SRLGs in the network. For some specific traffic I want to 
> send the data via two independent streams. I want to avoid single SRLG 
> failure to affect both streams. I define two flex-algos, each one 
> excluding one SRLG. No need to define extra affinities. This is btw not 
> an academical example, this has been requested by real users.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I also think that such a usage of SRLG does not fit the needs of the
> 
>  > TI-LFA
> 
>  > <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3GhKPQ2JAgebW7vLidLjXRx6H2?u=https%3A%
> 
>  > 2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa-0
> 
>  > 3> draft that considers an SRLG as a resource that fails when any of
> 
>  > the links/nodes comprising it fails. E.g., it says in Section 2:
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     The Point of Local Repair (PLR), S, needs to find a node Q (a
> 
>  > repair
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     node) that is capable of safely forwarding the traffic to a
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     destination D affected by the failure of the protected link L, a
> 
>  > set
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     of links including L (SRLG), or the node F itself.  The PLR also
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     needs to find a way to reach Q without being affected by the
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     convergence state of the nodes over the paths it wants to use to
> 
>  >
> 
>  >     reach Q: the PLR needs a loop-free path to reach Q.
> 
> I see no conflict between the LFA draft and flex-algo one. If you do, 
> please be precise where the conflict is.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > To me this suggests that SRLGs are only relevant when computing backup
> 
>  > paths for specific failures, e.g., an LFA for failure of a link hat
> 
>  > belongs to a specific SRLG must be computed in the topology from which
> 
>  > all the links belonging to the same SRLG are pruned. This
> 
>  > understanding matches RFC 4090 that states in Section 6.2 “Procedures
> 
>  > for Backup Path
> 
>  > Computation”:
> 
> SRLG is a mechanism to express fate share. I see no reason why SRLG 
> could not be used for other than LFA purposes.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Peter
> 
>  >
> 
>  >        - The backup LSP cannot traverse the downstream node and/or
> 
>  > link
> 
>  >
> 
>  >          whose failure is being protected against.  Note that if the
> 
>  > PLR
> 
>  >
> 
>  >          is the penultimate hop, node protection is not possible, and
> 
>  >
> 
>  >          only the downstream link can be avoided. The backup path may
> 
>  > be
> 
>  >
> 
>  >          computed to be SRLG disjoint from the downstream node and/or
> 
>  >
> 
>  >          link being avoided.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > If SRLGs are only relevant for computation of backup paths, it is not
> 
>  > clear to me if they should be part of the definition of a specific
> 
>  > Flexible Algorithm.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > What, if anything, did I miss?
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Regards, and lots of thanks in advance,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Sasha
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Office: +972-39266302
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Cell:      +972-549266302
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com 
> <mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> 
>  >
> 
>  >
> 
>  > ______________________________________________________________________
> 
>  > _____
> 
>  >
> 
>  > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> 
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> 
>  > Telecom. If you have received this transmission in error, please
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> 
> ___________________________________________________________________________
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> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains 
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From nobody Mon May  4 02:47:42 2020
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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On Friday I wrote:
> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

Christian Hopps wrote 2020-05-04 01:27:
> Let's not be too cynical at the start though! :)

I wasn't trying to be cynical.
Let me explain my line of reasoning two years ago.

When reading about the proposals for limiting the flooding topology
in IS-IS, I read a requirement doc. It said that the goal was to
support areas (flooding domains) of 10k routers. Or maybe even 100k
routers. My immediate thought was: "how are you gonna sync the LSDB
when a router boots up ? That takes 300 to 3000 seconds !?".

This is the problem I wanted to solve. I hadn't even thought of
routers in dense topologies that have 1k+ neighbors.


There are currently heathens that use BGP as IGP in their data-centers.
There's even a cult that is developing a new IGP on top of BGP (LSVR).
If they think BGP/BGP-LS/LSVR are good choices for an IGP, why is that ?
One reason is that people claim that BGP is more scalable. Note, when
doing "Internet-routing" with large number of prefixes, routers, or
some implementations of BGP, still sometimes need minutes, or dozens
of minutes to process and re-advetise all those prefixes. So when we
talk about minutes, why do people think BGP is so much more wonderful ?
I think it's TCP. TCP can transport lots of info quickly and 
efficiently.
And conceptually TCP is easy to understand for the user ("you write
into a socket, you read from a socket on the other box. done").

If TCP is good enough for BGP bulk-transport, it should be good
enough for IS-IS bulk-transport.

If there are issues with using TCP for routing-protocols, I'm sure
we've solved those by now (in our implementations). We can use those
same solutions/tweaks we use for BGP's TCP in ISIS's TCP. Or am I
too naive now ?

BTW, all the implementations I've worked with used regular TCP. All
the Open Source BGPs seem to be using the regular TCP in their
kernels. Can someone explain why TCP is good for BGP but not for IS-IS ?

Almost 24 years ago, I sat on a bench in Santa Cruz discussing protocols
with an engineer who had a lot more experience than I had, and still 
have.
He was designing LDP at the time (with Yakov). LDP also uses TCP.
He said "if we had to design IS-IS now, of course we'd use TCP as
transport now". I never forgot that.


The goal here is not to make IS-IS transport optimal. We don't need to
use maximum available bandwidth. I just happen to think we need the
same 2 elements that TCP has: sender-side congestion-avoidance and
receiver-side flow-control. I hope I have explained why sender-side
congestion-control in IS-IS is not enough (you don't get the feedback
you need to make it work). Les and others have tried to explain
why receiver-side flow-control is hard to implement (the receiving
IS-IS might not know about the state of its interfaces, linecards, etc).

That's why I think we need both.
And when we implement both, it'll start to look like TCP.
So why not use TCP itself ?
Or Quic ? Or another transport that's already implemented ?

> I'd note that our environment is a bit more controlled than the
> end-to-end internet environment. In IS-IS we are dealing with single
> link (logical) so very simple solutions (CTS/RTS, ethernet PAUSE)
> could be viable.

Les's argument is that it's often not so controlled.

Let me ask you one question:
In your algorithm, the receiving IS-IS will send a "pause signal" when
it is overrun. How does IS-IS know it is overrun ? The router is 
dropping
IS-IS pdu's on the interface, on the linecard, on the queue between 
linecards
and Control Plane, on the IS-IS process's input-queue. When queues are 
full,
you can't send a message up saying "we didn't have space for an IS-IS 
message,
but we're sending you this message that we've just dropped an IS-IS 
message".
How do you envision this works ?

Imho receiver-side flow-control can only send a rough upper-bound on how 
many
pdu's it can receive normally.

A solution with a "pause signal" is basically the same as a 
receiver-side
flow-control, where the receive-window is either 0 or infinite.

> Thus our choice of algorithms may well be less restricted.

I'm looking forward to seeing (an outline of) your algorithm.

Again, I'm not pushing for TCP (anymore). I'm not pushing for anything.
I'm just trying to explain the problems that I see with solutions
that are, imho, a bit too simple to really help. Maybe I'm wrong, and
the problem is simpler than I think. Experimentation would be nice.

henk.


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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "shraddha@juniper.net" <shraddha@juniper.net>, "cfilsfil@cisco.com" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>, "ketant@cisco.com" <ketant@cisco.com>, "arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com" <arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>
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Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 12:05:24 +0200
From: Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl>
To: Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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Mitchel wrote:
> IS-IS has two levels of neighbors via hello level 1s (LSAs) and hello
> level  2s :, so immediate is somewhat relative..

As Tony said, Level-2 neighbors are still directly adjacent.
There might be layer-2 switches between them.
But there are never layer-3 routers between 2 adjacent level-2 
neighbors.

Les's point is that interfaces, linecards, and the interface
between the data-plane and the control-plane can all be seen
as points between 2 ISIS instances/process on two different
routers, where ISIS messages might be dropped. And that
therefor you need congestion-control (in stead of, or added
to) receiver-side flow-control.

> Sorry, I disagree, Link capacity is always an issue..

Note, we're not trying to find the maximum number of LSPs
we can transmit. We just want to improve the speed a bit.
 From 33 LSPs/sec today to 10k LSPs/sec or something in
that order. There's no need to send 10 million LSPs/sec.

Suppose the average LSP is 500 bytes.
Suppose a router sends 10k LSPs per second.
I think if ISISes can send 10k LSPs/sec, we've solved the problem
for 99.99% of networks.

10k LSPs is 5 000 000 bytes. Is 40 000 000 bits. Is 40 Mbps.
So a continuous stream of 10k LSPs/sec takes 40 Mbps to transmit.

For LSP-flooding, bandwidth itself is never the problem.

henk.


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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> On May 4, 2020, at 5:47 AM, Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>=20
> I'm looking forward to seeing (an outline of) your algorithm.

I'm not trying to push any particular algorithm, we already have some =
proposals. My intention was only to suggest that we not disregard =
solutions too aggressively. The argument that there are too many queues =
in one routers implementation of a punt path, or there are so few or =
none that one can't tell IS-IS from other traffic early enough doesn't =
mean that one couldn't consider what *would* be required for a simple =
solution to be viable. If a simple solution is elegant enough then =
perhaps market forces start coming in to play and the cost to implement =
isn't actually that high.

In any case we already have a couple proposed semi-solutions and during =
the meeting it seemed to be agreed that people would write some code and =
collect some data at this point.

Thanks,
Chris.
[as WG member]=


From nobody Mon May  4 05:51:42 2020
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Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 05:51:41 -0700
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Subject: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12
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Reviewer: Scott Bradner
Review result: Ready

This is an OPS-DIR review of Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy
Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS

This ID proposes extensions to IS-IS to permit an egress LSR in a MPLS network
to signal ingress LSRs in the network that it can process the Entropy Labels
used in load balancing of traffic flows.

The extensions are simple and are clearly explained in the ID.  The ID itself
is short and simple and, as such, makes me wonder (rhetorically) why it took 12
versions of the ID to get to this point.

I see no operations-related issues with the proposal.




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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender isn't enough
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Henk -

Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to reply =
to this one.
Top posting for better readability.

There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of whi=
ch is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly diffe=
rent than that for which TCP is used.
I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which Brun=
o reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any =
changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnitud=
e faster than it commonly does today.
This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and will no=
t need "TCP".

Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address famili=
es whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which I think =
is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments where mu=
ltiple address family support is needed

I really don't want to do either of the above.

Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and both of=
 the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail will be requ=
ired.
It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK faste=
r - and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is exp=
ressed in ISO 10589:

" partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
        action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
        It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds respectivel=
y) associated with a much slower flooding rate and implementations I am awa=
re of use values in this order of magnitude. These numbers need to be reduc=
ed if we are to flood faster, but the relationship between the two needs to=
 remain the same.

It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will result=
 in additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this=
 has some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementa=
tion which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should a=
lso be able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be=
 smarter than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-ls=
r-isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still considering.=
 Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can =
support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagatio=
n rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle fa=
ster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout the n=
etwork in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example o=
f the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support faster =
flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster =
flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency. M=
ore work needs to be done here...

In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think you h=
ave provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on this=
 topic,

Thanx.

    Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender is=
n't
> enough
>=20
>=20
> Hello all,
>=20
> Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
> That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS
> flooding.
>=20
> My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to
> optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.
> I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.
> But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
>=20
>=20
> What does TCP do:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
>=20
> 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being
> overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size
> in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
> 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links between
> sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an educated
> guess at what speed it can send.
>=20
>=20
> The part we seem to be missing:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at
> how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?
> Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate
> as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able
> to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
>=20
> If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,
> without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is look
> at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can
> not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
> immediately
> send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the
> PSNP,
> like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a
> little
> to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
>=20
> In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the
> receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This
> is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
> fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information
> a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what
> TCP can learn from incoming acks.
>=20
>=20
> The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
> seconds.
> And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means
> that
> the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
> seconds.
> For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
> whenever
> they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about
> flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes
> a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
>=20
> When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the
> full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped
> LSPs.
> If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will
> probably
> not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might
> send
> hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or
> partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
>=20
>=20
> A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a
> multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-control
> algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more
> specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do PSNPs
> under load.
>=20
> Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)
> PSNPs.
> More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
>=20
>=20
> Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
>=20
> I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs
> 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
>=20
> As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
> receiving
> router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on
> interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A receiver
> can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound
> to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
> flow-control
> window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both. Maybe
> the
> receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in
> the
> future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
>=20
>=20
> What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks
> (LANs).
>=20
> When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections
> introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
> connections ?
> Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?
> There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.
>=20
> However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.
> How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine whether
> there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most
> LSPs
> that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There
> are
> no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send
> PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to
> me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their
> sending speed accordingly.
>=20
> When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best. Because
> all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make
> sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure
> this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than
> ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
>=20
>=20
> My conclusion:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more
> detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's
> good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enough.
> But it's a start.
>=20
> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.
>=20
>=20
> henk.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


From nobody Tue May  5 02:43:39 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12
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Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
Review result: Has Issues

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12
Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
Review Date: 2020-05-05
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
Intended Status: Proposed Standard

Summary:
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
before publication.

Comments:
Disclaimer: I reviewed an earlier version (-08) as part of the early
directorate review, which could be located at -
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-08-rtgdir-early-dhody-2019-09-12/

I have reviewed this and the OSPF I-D together and you will find similar
comments for both I-Ds. You could discuss them in one place.

Major Issues:
None

Minor Issues:

(1) Introduction

   Recently, mechanisms have been defined to signal labels via link-
   state Interior Gateway Protocols (IGP) such as IS-IS [RFC8667].

   Is there a better way to introduce IS-IS extension for SR (than saying that
   it is just an example to signal labels)?

(2) Section 3

    Query: The text says that the ABR "MUST" preserve the ELC setting where as
    the ASBR "SHOULD" preserve it. What is the reason for using SHOULD in case
    of ASBR? Maybe we can spell out in which case ASBR might not preserve the
    ELC setting.

(3) Section 4

   The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
   advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.

   Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
   support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
   advertised only when following conditions are met:

   *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
      the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].

   *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
      value.

   *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
      load-balancing function.

   Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
   absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
   it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?

   I see similar language in RFC8491 but I think we could be clearer in this
   I-D for ERLD.

(4) Section 4

    What would be the behavior if an IS-IS router receives an ERLD of the node
    but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
    RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within IS-IS. If it is to
    just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.

(5) Section 4

    We need to clearly state that this new MSD Type is carried in Node MSD
    sub-TLV as described in [RFC8491]. And then I guess we don't really need
    figure 2? The format is as per RFC 8491!

Nits:

(1) Abstract - use term LSP instead of tunnel for consistency

   OLD:
   An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel.
   NEW:
   An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.
   END

(2) Expand BGP-LS on first use!

Thanks!
Dhruv



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Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
Review result: Has Issues

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
Review Date: 2020-05-05
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
Intended Status: Proposed Standard

Summary:
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
before publication.

Comments:

Disclaimer: I reviewed an earlier version (-09) as part of the early
directorate review, which could be located at -
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-09-rtgdir-early-dhody-2019-09-12/

I have reviewed this and the IS-IS I-D together and you will find similar
comments for both I-Ds. You could discuss them in one place.

Major Issues:
None

Minor Issues:
(1) Introduction

   Recently, mechanisms have been defined to signal labels via link-
   state Interior Gateway Protocols (IGP) such as OSPFv2 [RFC8665] and
   OSPFv3 [RFC8666].

   Is there a better way to introduce OSPF extension for SR (than saying that
   it is just an example to signal labels)?

(2) Section 3

    Query: The text says that the ABR "MUST" preserve the ELC setting where as
    the ASBR "SHOULD" preserve it. What is the reason for using SHOULD in case
    of ASBR? Maybe we can spell out in which case ASBR might not preserve the
    ELC setting.

(3) Section 4

   The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
   advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.

   Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
   support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
   advertised only when following conditions are met:

   *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
      the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].

   *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
      value.

   *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
      load-balancing function.

   Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
   absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
   it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?

(4) Section 4

    What would be the behavior if an OSPF router receives a ERLD of the node
    but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
    RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within OSPF. If it is to
    just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.

Nits:
(1) Change OSPF Working group to LSR Working group in the metadata (first line
of the I-D)

(2) Abstract - use term LSP instead of tunnel for consistency

   OLD:
   An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel.
   NEW:
   An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.
   END

(3) Section 4 s/Node MSD sub-TLV/Node MSD TLV/

(4) Expand BGP-LS on first use.

Thanks!
Dhruv




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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-10
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Hi Alvaro,

thanks for your comments.


I apologize for the delay in responding to your comments.

I tried to address all of them, some have been resolved during ISIS 
draft review, in which case I took the same resolution for this draf.

Please see inline, look for ##PP

Dear Authors:

Happy New Year!

I have finished reading this document, reviewing the e-mail archive
and all the various reviews and comments.  Quoting one of the authors,
"it is essential that the two IGPs provide equivalent functionality"
[1] -- so I have considered draft-ietf-isis-te-app-09 in parallel with
this one (I'm sending out a separate yet very similar review for it).

In general, I think both drafts need some work.  When appropriate, I
have used "[c]" to highlight comparisons.  I tried to put equivalent
comments in both documents, but may have missed a few...

I have some significant concerns (see details inline) about this
document -- and as a result about the ISIS draft.  I want to point out
a couple of them here:

(A) Deployment Considerations

This document contains what I would characterize as a "distributed"
Deployment Considerations section through §8, §9 and §10.  There is a
lot of content, but I still made some comments inline about other
important information.  Please consider consolidating all the
deployment-related information in one place.  rfc5706 (specially §2)
may be useful, please take a look.


##PP
I have kept "Attribute Advertisements and Enablement" section (moved it 
up) and combined "Deployment Considerations" and "Interoperability, 
Backwards Compatibility and Migration" into single section "Deployment 
Considerations" similar to what has been done for ISIS




[c] This document does not include equivalent information to what is
in §7.* in the ISIS draft.  Please consider "importing" it (or at
least making a reference).


##PP
done


(B) I was able to identify one significant functional difference which
warrants a discussion of the reason for it and maybe the pros/cons:

    §3 talks about the behavior when "both SABM Length and UDABM Length 
are 0".
    This document makes the use of the attributes mandatory by all 
applications
    (in conflict with §8.2) while the ISIS draft makes their use 
optional (§4.1).


##PP
removed the text in section 3 and clarified in section "Use of Zero 
Length Application Identifier Bit Masks" to match what is in ISIS draft.


I will wait for this review to be addressed before moving both
documents forward together.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/7zkoaLfUe19JxTOWaKWO51wK9gg


[Line numbers from idnits.]

...
16	Abstract

18	   Various link attributes have been defined in OSPF in the context of
19	   the MPLS Traffic Engineering (TE) and GMPLS.  Since the original
20	   RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g., SRTE,
21	   LFA) have been defined which also make use of the link attribute
22	   advertisements.  This document defines how to distribute link
23	   attributes in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 for applications other than MPLS TE
24	   or GMPLS.

[c] This abstract is a lot more general, while the ISIS one provides
more specifics, including talking about RSVP-TE instead of MPLS TE...

[minor] It may not be obvious to all readers what the relationship is
between RSVP-TE and  MPLS TE...

##PP
Made it similar to ISIS draft.



...
89	1.  Introduction

91	   Various link attributes have been defined in OSPFv2 [RFC2328] and
92	   OSPFv3 [RFC5340] in the context of the MPLS TE and GMPLS.  All these
93	   attributes are distributed by OSPFv2 as sub-TLVs of the Link-TLV
94	   advertised in the OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA [RFC3630].  In OSPFv3, they
95	   are distributed as sub-TLVs of the Link-TLV advertised in the OSPFv3
96	   Intra-Area-TE-LSA as defined in [RFC5329].

[nit] s/defined in OSPFv2/defined for OSPFv2

[nit] s/context of the MPLS/context of MPLS

[minor] "All these attributes..."  Which attributes?  I'm sure the
references are made later, but since they are mentioned here first,
please put references here.  [[c] The ISIS draft mentions the relevant
RFCs from the start.]

98	   Many of these link attributes are useful outside of traditional MPLS
99	   Traffic Engineering or GMPLS.  This brings its own set of problems,
100	   in particular how to distribute these link attributes in OSPFv2 and
101	   OSPFv3 when MPLS TE and GMPLS are not deployed or are deployed in
102	   parallel with other applications that use these link attributes.

[nit] "own set of problems"  Are there others you want to highlight
besides the distribution?

[minor] What is an application?  I think I can tell the difference
between an "application", as used in this document, and an
"application" as what the ART area does: "The ART area develops
application protocols and architectures in the IETF." [1]  Please
define what an application is in the context of this document.

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/art/about/

[major] Related to applications...  "distinction between link
attributes used by TE and link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or
OSPFv3 applications" [§2.1]  Some of the other applications mentioned
(SRTE, for example) are also related to Traffic Engineering, so the
general use of TE and non-TE as a distinction is very confusing and
seems to assume the type of applications that can use the alternate
advertisement are limited to "non-TE" -- but I'm sure that is not the
objective.  Please be clear in the use of general terms like TE.

[c] The ISIS draft seems to be more careful/explicit when pointing out
the difference.

[nit] s/distribute these link attributes...with other applications
that use these link attributes./distribute these link
attributes...with other applications that may use them.


##PP
Changed to match the ISIS draft,


...
124	1.1.  Requirements notation

126	   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
127	   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
128	   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].

[major] Use the rfc8174 template.

##PP
done


[c] Before starting with the solution, the ISIS draft has a section
("Legacy Advertisements") that talks about the current state.  I
thought that was very helpful.  An equivalent section in this case
would review (or at least point to) RFC3630, RFC5329, RFC7471,
RFC7684, RFC8362...


##PP
done. Moved some of the content from section 2.1 to this new section.


...
136	2.1.  OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA

138	   Extended Link Opaque LSAs as defined in [RFC7684] for OSPFv2 and
139	   Extended Router-LSAs [RFC8362] for OSPFv3 are used to advertise link
140	   attributes that are used by applications other then MPLS TE or GMPLS.
141	   These LSAs were defined as a generic containers for distribution of
142	   the extended link attributes.  There are several advantages in using
143	   them:

145	   1.  Advertisement of the link attributes does not make the link part
146	       of the TE topology.  It avoids any conflicts and is fully
147	       compatible with [RFC3630] and [RFC5329].

149	   2.  The OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA remains
150	       truly opaque to OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 as originally defined in
151	       [RFC3630] and [RFC5329] respectively.  Their contents are not
152	       inspected by OSPF, that acts as a pure transport.

154	   3.  There is clear distinction between link attributes used by TE and
155	       link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 applications.


[major] "used by TE" is ambiguous because SRTE, for example, is a form
of TE.  Note that the TE term is used extensively throughout the
document...and it may cause that same type of confusion.  The same
applies for the mention of "non-TE" later on...  Please be explicit
and don't simply use TE/non-TE, but as necessary qualify the use.


##PP
fixed

157	   4.  All link attributes that are used by other applications are
158	       advertised in a single LSA, the Extended Link Opaque LSA in
159	       OSPFv2 or the OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA [RFC8362] in OSPFv3.

161	   The disadvantage of this approach is that in rare cases, the same
162	   link attribute is advertised in both the TE Opaque and Extended Link
163	   Attribute LSAs in OSPFv2 or the Intra-Area-TE-LSA and E-Router-LSA in
164	   OSPFv3.  Additionally, there will be additional standardization
165	   effort.  However, this could also be viewed as an advantage as the
166	   non-TE use cases for the TE link attributes are documented and
167	   validated by the LSR working group.

[minor] "...both the TE Opaque and Extended Link Attribute LSAs in
OSPFv2 or the Intra-Area-TE-LSA and E-Router-LSA in OSPFv3."  It might
be good to introduce (maybe in the §2 introduction) how the
information is advertised today so that this makes sense to the casual
reader.

##PP
done


[nit] "Additionally, there will be additional standardization effort."
  Not really a technical argument...  Hopefully when attributes are
standardized in one case they will at the same time standardized for
using the alternate advertisement mechanism.

##PP
removed

[major] "non-TE use cases"  Same comment as above: SRTE is a form of
TE.  Please either be specific and use MPLS TE/RSVP-TE, or clearly
define the terms somewhere so that readers understand that non-TE
still includes TE mechanisms like SRTE...

##PP
done

[nit] The last sentence is unnecessary..  The registration policy for
the registries is set at "IETF Review or IESG Approval", which means
that any RFC from any WG would be ok to register a new value (IETF
Review), and that there may even exist cases when an RFC is not needed
(IESG Approval)...and there are also ranges for Experimental Use and
FCFS.  IOW, there is no guarantee that new attributes, or even the
rehashing of existing ones for "non-TE use cases" will even go through
the IETF, much less the lsr WG.


##PP
removed





169	   Extended Link Opaque LSA [RFC7684] and E-Router-LSA [RFC8362] are
170	   used to advertise any link attributes used for non-TE applications in
171	   OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 respectively, including those that have been
172	   originally defined for TE applications.

[minor] Please include a forward reference to §4 somewhere.

##PP
done

[nit] This is the 3rd time that you mention this...

##PP
It is important :)



174	   TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue to use OSPFv2 TE
175	   Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].

[nit] Also mentioned above...

##PP
We need to make this very clear. I rather keep it in multiple places




177	   The format of the link attribute TLVs that have been defined for TE
178	   applications will be kept unchanged even when they are used for non-
179	   TE applications.  Unique code points will be allocated for these TE
180	   link attribute TLVs from the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV Sub-TLV
181	   Registry [RFC7684] and from the OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry
182	   [RFC8362].  For each reused TLV, the code point will be defined in an
183	   IETF document along with the expected use-case(s).


[minor] s/Unique code points will be allocated.../Unique code points
are allocated...
Please also add a pointer to the IANA Considerations section here.

##PP
done


[major] "For each reused TLV, the code point will be defined in an
IETF document along with the expected use-case(s)."  It sounds as if
the intent of this sentence is to set a requirement for future work.
However, as I mentioned above, the Registration Policy defined for the
registries don't support asking for any type of IETF documentation.

##PP
removed



185	3.  Advertisement of Application Specific Values

187	   To allow advertisement of the application specific values of the link
188	   attribute, a new Application Specific Link Attributes (ASLA) sub-TLV
189	   is defined.  The ASLA sub-TLV is a sub-TLV of the OSPFv2 Extended
190	   Link TLV [RFC7471] and OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV [RFC8362].

[minor] s/RFC7471/RFC7684

##PP
fixed


...
221	      SABM Length: Standard Application Identifier Bit-Mask Length.  It
222	      MUST be a multiple of 4 bytes.  If the Standard Application Bit-
223	      Mask is not present, the Standard Application Bit-Mask Length MUST
224	      be set to 0.

[c] The ISIS draft defines the L-flag to indicate that the
"applications listed...MUST use the legacy advertisements".  There is
no equivalent functionality here.  Please see my comments about this
in §4.1 (of the ISIS draft).

##PP
That is correct, there is no L-flag in OSPF. We do not plan to use TE 
Opaque LSA for anything else than what they have been defined for.





...
231	      Standard Application Identifier Bit-Mask: Optional set of bits,
232	      where each bit represents a single standard application.  Bits are
233	      defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app], which also request a new IANA
234	      "Link Attribute Applications" registry under "Interior Gateway
235	      Protocol (IGP) Parameters" for them.  The bits are repeated here
236	      for informational purpose:

[minor] s/Bits are defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app], which also
request a new IANA "Link Attribute Applications" registry under
"Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) Parameters" for them./Bits are
defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

##PP
done

238	         Bit-0 (R-bit): RSVP TE

[nit] s/RSVP TE/RSVP-TE

##PP
done

240	         Bit-1 (S-bit): Segment Routing TE

242	         Bit-2 (F-bit): Loop Free Alternate (LFA).  Includes all LFA
243	         types

[just wondering] Given that we're trying to future-proof...  Can there
be cases where the link attributes for "normal" LFA, vs Remote LFA
(for example) might need to be different?  Considering that part of
the justification for this work is the need to potentially advertise
different attributes per application, and given that the question
"what is meant by LFA?" came up more than once on the mailing list, I
guess the answer might be yes (at least for some use cases).  Knowing
that the user has their own bits to play with, I'm sure they can
accommodate if the need comes up.   Just thinking out loud...


##PP
has been closed with ISIS draft.


...
248	   Standard Application Identifier Bits are defined/sent starting with
249	   Bit 0.  Additional bit definitions that are defined in the future
250	   SHOULD be assigned in ascending bit order so as to minimize the
251	   number of octets that will need to be transmitted.

[major] "Additional bit definitions that may be defined in the future
SHOULD be assigned in ascending bit order so as to minimize the number
of octets that will need to be transmitted."  This statement about
assignment belongs in the IANA Consideration section as part of the
instructions to IANA on how to manage the space.

[major] When would it be ok for IANA not to assign the values in
order?  IOW, why is that a SHOULD and not a MUST?

[minor] Given the intent to minimize the transmissions, should there
be a statement standardizing that behavior?  I'm thinking of something
like: "In order to minimize the number of octets transmitted, the
sender SHOULD/MUST (?) transmit only the minimum necessary amount of
information..."  IOW, the assignment policy, and the ability to
advertise the *ABM Length is useless unless the sender takes advantage
of it.


#PP
removed this text, as bits and the registry that defines them is 
specified in ISIS draft.


253	   User Defined Application Identifier Bits have no relationship to
254	   Standard Application bits and are NOT managed by IANA or any other
255	   standards body.  It is recommended that bits are used starting with
256	   Bit 0 so as to minimize the number of octets required to advertise
257	   all of them.

[nit] "all of them", what?  s/all of them/any User Defined Applications.

##PP
Changed to "all UDAs"


259	   Undefined bits in both Bit-Masks MUST be transmitted as 0 and MUST be
260	   ignored on receipt.  Bits that are NOT transmitted MUST be treated as
261	   if they are set to 0 on receipt.

[major] "Undefined bits MUST be transmitted as 0 and MUST be ignored
on receipt."  What if the sender and the receiver support a different
set of applications?  For example, suppose that the sender supports a
new application identified by the N-bit, and sets only that bit; the
receiver treats the N-bit as unknown (= undefined) and ignores it.
The result is that, for the receiver, there seems to be no indication
of an application.  Is "no application" a valid indication, or should
at least one bit always be set?

##PP
Just like unknown TLVs, unknown bits MUST be ignored.
I have added more text, similar to ISIS.

Note that below the case is presented for when "neither the Standard
Application Bits nor the User Defined Application bits are set (i.e.,
both SABM Length and UDABM Length are 0)", but the condition is
different because the bits are not present (see my comment below).

[minor] Following on the previous comment...  It seems that a
requirement is for the routers/nodes in the domain to agree on the
meaning of the bits: support the same Standard Applications and
interpret the User Defined bit mask the same way.  Please add this
type of information to the potential new Deployment Considerations
Section.

##PP
For Standard Applications it is obvious that we need to agree on the 
meaning of the bits. That's why we are standardizing them. For User 
Defined bits, I would rather avoid specifying anything, it's up to the 
user what it does.

[nit] "Bits that are NOT transmitted MUST be..."  While I understand
what you mean, having Normative language for the behavior of things
that are not received doesn't seem appropriate.  How about something
like this: "Any omitted bits MUST be..."?

##PP
aligned with ISIS draft.


...
271	   The advantage of not making the Application Bit-Masks part of the
272	   attribute advertisement itself is that we can keep the format of the
273	   link attributes that have been defined previously and reuse the same
274	   format when advertising them in the ASLA sub-TLV.

[nit] s/we can keep the format of the link attributes that have been
defined previously and reuse the same format when advertising them in
the ASLA sub-TLV./the format of any previously defined link attributes
can be kept and reused when advertising them in the ASLA sub-TLV.


##PP
done


276	   When neither the Standard Application Bits nor the User Defined
277	   Application bits are set (i.e., both SABM Length and UDABM Length are
278	   0) in the ASLA sub-TLV, then the link attributes included in it MUST
279	   be considered as being applicable to all applications.

[major] s/bits are set/bits are present
"set" gives the impression of them being "1"; it's different to have
them all be 0 than to have then not be there.

[major] The specification of what to do when "both SABM Length and
UDABM Length are 0" is inconsistent with §8.2.  Please specify the
behavior only once.


##PP
I have removed this text and added the text to "Deployment consideration 
" section. The text matches what is in the ISIS draft.

[c] The ISIS draft leaves open the possibility for applications to use
the attributes while this document makes it mandatory. I think this is
a significant functional difference.

##PP
I have aligned with ISIS.


281	   If, however, another advertisement of the same link attribute
282	   includes any Application Bit-Mask in the ASLA sub-TLV, applications
283	   that are listed in the Application Bit-Masks of such ASLA sub-TLV
284	   SHOULD use the attribute advertisement which has the application
285	   specific bit set in the Application Bit-Masks.

287	   If the same application is listed in the Application Bit-Masks of
288	   more then one ASLA sub-TLV, the application SHOULD use the first
289	   advertisement and ignore any subsequent advertisements of the same
290	   attribute.  This situation SHOULD be logged as an error.

[major] For the first two SHOULDs (in the last two paragraphs: "SHOULD
use the attribute advertisement" and "SHOULD use the first
advertisement").  When is it ok to not do as specified?  For example,
are there specific considerations related to not selecting the first
advertisement?  Why would a receiver not use the attribute
advertisement which has the application specific bit set?  IOW, why
are these not MUSTs?

##PP
Changed to MUST.





292	   This document defines the initial set of link attributes that MUST
293	   use ASLA sub-TLV if advertised in the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV or in
294	   the OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV.  If the ASLA sub-TLV includes any link
295	   attribute(s) NOT listed below, they MUST be ignored.  Documents which
296	   define new link attributes MUST state whether the new attributes
297	   support application specific values and as such MUST be advertised in
298	   an ASLA sub-TLV.  The link attributes that MUST be advertised in ASLA
299	   sub-TLVs are:

[nit] s/use ASLA sub-TLV/use the ASLA sub-TLV

##PP
fixed



[major] "initial set of link attributes that MUST use [the] ASLA
sub-TLV if advertised..."    The second paragraph in this section says
that "ASLA sub-TLV is an optional sub-TLV" -- that is a true
statement.  However, the ASLA sub-TLV is (according to this paragraph)
mandatory when the link attributes are used.

Suggestion (for the second paragraph)>

    The ASLA sub-TLV is an optional sub-TLV and can appear multiple 
times in the
    OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV and OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV.  It MUST be 
present if
    any of the link attributes listed at the end on this section are
    advertised.  It has the following format:


##PP
done


301	      - Shared Risk Link Group

303	      - Unidirectional Link Delay

305	      - Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

307	      - Unidirectional Delay Variation

309	      - Unidirectional Link Loss

311	      - Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth

313	      - Unidirectional Available Bandwidth

315	      - Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth

317	      - Administrative Group

319	      - Extended Administrative Group

321	      - TE Metric

[minor]  Please include references for the definition of these attributes.

##PP
done


323	4.  Reused TE link attributes

325	   This section defines the use case and code points from the OSPFv2
326	   Extended Link TLV Sub-TLV Registry and OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV
327	   Registry for some of the link attributes that have been originally
328	   defined for TE or GMPLS.

[minor] "defines the...code points"  The code points are
assigned/defined by IANA later on..   Perhaps: "This section defines
the use cases and indicates the code points (see Section 12)..."

##PP
done


...
408	4.4.  TE Metric

410	   [RFC3630] defines TE Metric.

[minor] rfc3630 calls it "Traffic Engineering Metric"

##PP
fixed


...
417	5.  Maximum Link Bandwidth

[nit] Include the application independent attributes in a single
section -- a sub-section each.

419	   Maximum link bandwidth is an application independent attribute of the
420	   link that is defined in [RFC3630].  Because it is an application
421	   independent attribute, it MUST NOT be advertised in ASLA sub-TLV.
422	   Instead, it MAY be advertised as a sub-TLV of the Extended Link
423	   Opaque LSA Extended Link TLV in OSPFv2 [RFC7684] or sub-TLV of OSPFv3
424	   E-Router-LSA Router-Link TLV in OSPFv3 [RFC8362].

[minor] I understand why the "Maximum link bandwidth is an application
independent attribute of the link".  But I am having a harder time
understanding why other bandwidth-related metrics (specifically
Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth, Unidirectional Available Bandwidth
and Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth) are not treated the same way.
A similar question was raised on the list and the treatment was
justified in order to support use cases where the bandwidth is managed
per application [1].  I don't want to revisit the discussion here
about the treatment, but it is important for the reader to understand
the existence of those use cases.  Please add a paragraph or two
talking about the consideration.

##PP
added a similar section as the one that has been added to ISIS draft.


[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/xl8HWDeQqYNcv_X_568-xv6rfvk

[minor] This attribute and other bandwidth-related ones are prone to
interaction as multiple applications may want to use the resources.
While the use of the resources is out of scope, it would be helpful to
include that type of information in a Deployment Considerations
section.

[c] A related point was made when reviewing the ISIS draft [1].

[1] 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/isis-wg/2M2pho1EZcVTkOOQssLQUVO0HY4


##PP
I hope the added section makes it clear.


...
[minor][c] The ISIS draft also calls out the Maximum Reservable Link
Bandwidth and Unreserved Bandwidth as attributes specific to
RSVP-TE...but this document doesn't [§4.2.2].  Why?  I think the
answer has to do with this text from §2.1:

    TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue to use OSPFv2 TE
    Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].

Is that correct?

##PP
more precisely, Maximum Reservable Link Bandwidth and Unreserved 
Bandwidth as RSVP-TE specific attributes are not allowed in ASLA TLV. 
These attributes MUST use TE Opaque LSAs.

If so, it wasn't completely clear to me that the sub-TLVs defined in
rfc3630 and rfc5329 continue to be advertised when using
RSVP-TE/GMPLS.

##PP
- all TLVs defined in rfc3630 and rfc5329 can continue to be advertised 
in legacy TE Opaque LSAs when used with RSVP-TE/GMPLS

- Maximum Reservable Link and Bandwidth and Unreserved Bandwidth as 
RSVP-TE specific attributes MUST only use the TE Opaque LSAs and MUST 
never be advertised in ASLA.

- we do support app bit in ASLA TLV for RSVP-TE. This allows attributes 
that are allowed to be advertised in ASLA TLV to be associated with RSVP-TE.

- It might be worth including stronger wording in §2.1.


##PP
there can not be a stronger wording.

- Given that some of the sub-TLVs (from rfc3630 and rfc5329) are
reused (§4.3 through §7), maybe it is worth providing some guidance on
not using those if RSVP-TE is the only application, or avoiding their
inclusion in the original LSAs.

##PP
I added a new subsection in the "Deployment Considerations" to describe 
the above RSVP case and the case of Maximum Reservable Link Bandwidth 
and Unreserved Bandwidth/



434	6.  Local Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLV

[major] The Local/Remote Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLVs (rfc5329) can
include multiple addresses for a link.  It seems to me that it could
be possible for different applications to use different addresses.  If
that is the case, then it seems that these sub-TLVs should not be
application independent.  Why are they not considered to be
application specific?

[minor] Why are IPv4 addresses not considered?

##PP
IPv4 local address is part of the basic spec.
IPv6 remote address has been added in rfc8379.


...
460	8.1.  Use of TE LSA Advertisements

[c] I made the same comments in §5.1 of the ISIS draft.

462	   Bit Identifers for Standard Applications are defined in Section 3.
463	   All of the identifiers defined in this document are associated with
464	   applications which were already deployed in some networks prior to
465	   the writing of this document.  Therefore, such applications have been
466	   deployed using the TE LSA advertisements.  The Standard Applications
467	   defined in this document MAY continue to use TE LSA advertisements
468	   for a given link so long as at least one of the following conditions
469	   is true:

[nit] s/Identifers/Identifiers

##PP
fixed

[major] Even if specifying the behavior for the Standard Applications,
this document cannot Normatively specify anything affecting the case
where "applications have been deployed using the legacy
advertisements".  s/MAY/may

[] I think that the text in this section can be generalized to any
application, not just ones defined in this document.  s/The Standard
Applications defined in this document MAY continue/The Standard
Applications may continue

##PP
I believe this has been closed during ISIS review.
I also added a sentence at the end of this section to match ISIS.



471	      The application is RSVP-TE

473	      The application is SRTE or LFA and RSVP-TE is not deployed
474	      anywhere in the network

476	      The application is SRTE or LFA, RSVP-TE is deployed in the
477	      network, and both the set of links on which SRTE and/or LFA
478	      advertisements are required and the attribute values used by SRTE
479	      and/or LFA on all such links is fully congruent with the links and
480	      attribute values used by RSVP-TE

[] To generalize:

    o  A single application is deployed in the network

    o  Multiple applications are deployed in the network and all the 
links and
       attribute values are fully congruent between them.

482	   Under the conditions defined above, implementations which support the
483	   extensions defined in this document have the choice of using TE LSA
484	   advertisements or application specific advertisements in support of
485	   SRTE and/or LFA.  This will require implementations to provide
486	   controls specifying which type of advertisements are to be sent/
487	   processed on receive for these applications.  Further discussion of
488	   the associated issues can be found in Section 10.

[] To generalize: s/in support of SRTE and/or LFA/in support of other
applications

490	   New applications which future documents define to make use of the
491	   advertisements defined in this document MUST NOT make use of TE LSA
492	   advertisements.

[major] Why not?  Just as the cases above, the application may run my
itself on the network, and/or the attributes may be fully congruent.


##PP
again, this has been closed with ISIS. I updated accordingly.



494	8.2.  Use of Zero Length Application Identifier Bit Masks

[minor] This section is partially redundant with the behavior
specified in §3.  Please make the specification only once.

##PP
removed from 3.


496	   If link attributes are advertised associated with zero length
497	   Application Identifier Bit-Masks for both standard applications and
498	   user defined applications, then that set of link attributes MAY be
499	   used by any application.  If support for a new application is
500	   introduced on any node in a network in the presence of such
501	   advertisements, these advertisements MAY be used by the new
502	   application.  If this is not what is intended, then existing
503	   advertisements MUST be readvertised with an explicit set of
504	   applications specified before a new application is introduced.

[major] s/MAY be used/may be used
It is just a statement of fact...

##PP
updated to match ISIS


506	9.  Attribute Advertisements and Enablement

[c] This section is pretty much the same in both drafts.  Consider
making the specification only once (maybe in the ISIS draft -- because
the applications are defined there) and then referencing it.  Note the
generalization comment below.

##PP
I believe it's good to keep it for readability. I made it same as in 
ISIS draft.


...
517	   In the case of RSVP-TE, the advertisement of application specific
518	   link attributes implies that RSVP is enabled on that link.  The
519	   absence of RSVP-TE application specific link attributes in
520	   combination with the absence of legacy advertisements implies that
521	   RSVP is NOT enabled on that link.

[minor] Specifying by implication sounds confusing to me.  Can we come
up with Normative language to accompany the text above?

Suggestion>
    The R-bit in the SABM MUST be set only if RSVP is enabled on the
    corresponding link.  All RSVP-enabled links MUST have a 
corresponding link
    attributes advertisement.

523	   In the case of SRTE, advertisement of application specific link
524	   attributes does NOT indicate enablement of SRTE.  The advertisements
525	   are only used to support constraints which may be applied when
526	   specifying an explicit path.  SRTE is implicitly enabled on all links
527	   which are part of the Segment Routing enabled topology independent of
528	   the existence of link attribute advertisements.

530	   In the case of LFA, advertisement of application specific link
531	   attributes does NOT indicate enablement of LFA on that link.
532	   Enablement is controlled by local configuration.

534	   If, in the future, additional standard applications are defined to
535	   use this mechanism, the specification defining this use MUST define
536	   the relationship between application specific link attribute
537	   advertisements and enablement for that application.

[] To generalize:

Suggestion>
    For Standard Applications, advertisement of application specific link
    attributes does NOT indicate enablement of the application on that 
link.  If
    additional Standard Applications are defined with a different enablement
    expectation, then the corresponding specification MUST define the 
alternate
    relationship between application specific link attribute 
advertisements and
    enablement for that application.

539	   This document allows the advertisement of application specific link
540	   attributes with no application identifiers i.e., both the Standard
541	   Application Identifier Bit-Mask and the User Defined Application Bit
542	   Mask are not present (See Section 3).  This supports the use of the
543	   link attribute by any application.  In the presence of an application
544	   where the advertisement of link attribute advertisements is used to
545	   infer the enablement of an application on that link (e.g., RSVP-TE),
546	   the absence of the Application Identifier leaves ambiguous whether
547	   that application is enabled on such a link.  This needs to be
548	   considered when making use of the "any application" encoding.

[major] What does the use of the "any application" encoding say about
RSVP-TE?  My interpretation is that if RSVP-TE is used, then the "any
application" encoding can't be used.  Is that correct?  Please be
specific.

##PP
I hope all the above comments were addressed by reusing ISIS text, which 
has been approved already.


550	10.  Backward Compatibility

[major] This section talks about the case where legacy advertisements
are already in use.  This document cannot Normatively define what
those deployments do, because by definition they are not necessarily
implementing this specification.  IOW, phrases like "OSPF routers in
that domain SHOULD continue to advertise" are out of place.

[] Instead of trying to fix the text, I believe that the §8.1 already
covers the scenarios discussed here.  Also, please consider
"importing" the 7.* sub-sections from the ISIS draft.

##PP
done

...
556	   In fact, there is at least one OSPF implementation that utilizes the
557	   link attributes advertised in TE Opaque LSAs [RFC3630] for Non-RSVP
558	   TE applications.  For example, this implementation of LFA and remote
559	   LFA utilizes links attributes such as Shared Risk Link Groups (SRLG)
560	   [RFC4203] and Admin Group [[RFC3630] advertised in TE Opaque LSAs.
561	   These applications are described in [RFC5286], [RFC7490], [RFC7916]
562	   and [RFC8102].

[nit] s/Non-RSVP TE/Non-RSVP-TE

564	   When an OSPF routing domain includes routers using link attributes
565	   from the OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSAs or the OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA for
566	   Non-RSVP TE applications defined in this document (i.e.  SRTE and
567	   LFA), OSPF routers in that domain SHOULD continue to advertise such
568	   OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSAs or the OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA.  In such a
569	   deployment, the advertised attributes SHOULD be the same and Non-
570	   RSVP application access to link attributes is a matter of local
571	   policy.

[nit] s/Non-RSVP TE/Non-RSVP-TE

[nit] s/Non-RSVP/Non-RSVP-TE

573	   When advertising link-attributes for any new applications other then
574	   RSVP-TE, SRTE or LFA, OSPF routers MUST NOT use TE Opaque LSA or
575	   OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA.  Instead, advertisement in the OSPFv2
576	   Extended Link Attributes LSAs or OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA MUST be used.

[major] (A similar statement was made in §8.1.)  Why?  Just as the
cases from §8.1, the application may run my itself on the network,
and/or the attributes may be fully congruent.

578	   It is RECOMMENDED to advertise link-attributes for RSVP-TE in the
579	   existing TE LSAs.

[major] When is it ok to not do so?  IOW, why isn't it "REQUIRED"?
I'm asking this question as a matter of process, but the conditions
laid out in §8.1 seems to already answer the question.  As I mentioned
above, the cases in this section seem to already be covered in §8.1.


##PP
I hope all the above comments were addressed by reusing and modifying 
ISIS pieces as needed.



581	11.  Security Considerations
...
591	   Implementations MUST assure that malformed TLV and Sub-TLV defined in
592	   this document are detected and do not provide a vulnerability for
593	   attackers to crash the OSPF router or routing process.  Reception of
594	   a malformed TLV or Sub-TLV SHOULD be counted and/or logged for
595	   further analysis.  Logging of malformed TLVs and Sub-TLVs SHOULD be
596	   rate-limited to prevent a Denial of Service (DoS) attack (distributed
597	   or otherwise) from overloading the OSPF control plane.

[major] "Implementations MUST assure that malformed TLV and Sub-TLV
defined in this document are detected and do not provide a
vulnerability for attackers to crash the OSPF router or routing
process."  How can this be Normatively enforced?  How is the
individual ability of an implementation to avoid crashes required for
interoperability?  IOW, I don't think you can use "MUST" in the
sentence above.  s/MUST/must

##PP
Above text is used in several OSPF RFCs -  rfc8476 being an example. I 
change to "must".


[major] What about vulnerabilities introduced by this document?  This
document doesn't define new TE-related attributes, just a new way to
advertise them...perhaps include something like this:

    This document defines a new way to advertise already defined TE 
Attributes.
    As the ASLA sub-TLV is not used for SPF computation or normal 
routing, the
    extensions specified here have no direct effect on IP routing. 
Tampering
    with the information defined in this document may have an effect on
    applications using it, including potential sub-optimal Traffic 
Engineering.
    This is not new...see [RFC5305], [RFC5307], [RFC6119], and [RFC8570].

And then there are other possible vulnerabilities introduced by the
new encodings...  For example, a rogue router can render the data
unusable by setting the incorrect bit-mask...  At best, this action
could result in sub-optimal paths (by taking some links out of
consideration)...  Consider adding text related to that.

##PP
I added the text similar to what is in the ISIS draft.



599	12.  IANA Considerations

601	12.1.  OSPFv2

603	   OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV Sub-TLVs registry [RFC7684] defines sub-TLVs
604	   at any level of nesting for OSPFv2 Extended Link TLVs.  This
605	   specification updates OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV sub-TLVs registry with
606	   the following TLV types:

[nit] s/OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV/The OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV

##PP
done

[major] s/This specification updates OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV sub-TLVs
registry with the following TLV types:/IANA has assigned the following
TLV types:

##PP
done
...
633	12.2.  OSPFv3

635	   OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry [RFC8362] defines sub-TLVs at
636	   any level of nesting for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs.  This specification
637	   updates OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry with the following TLV
638	   types:

[nit] s/OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV/The OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV

##PP
done

[major] s/This specification updates OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV
Registry with the following TLV types:/IANA has assigned the following
TLV types:

##PP
done


...
737	15.2.  Informative References

[major] These references should be Normative:

##PP
done.

thanks,
Peter



739	   [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]
740	              Ginsberg, L., Psenak, P., Previdi, S., Henderickx, W., and
741	              J. Drake, "IS-IS TE Attributes per application", draft-
742	              ietf-isis-te-app-08 (work in progress), October 2019.

744	   [RFC2328]  Moy, J., "OSPF Version 2", STD 54, RFC 2328,
745	              DOI 10.17487/RFC2328, April 1998,
746	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc2328>.

748	   [RFC4203]  Kompella, K., Ed. and Y. Rekhter, Ed., "OSPF Extensions in
749	              Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
750	              (GMPLS)", RFC 4203, DOI 10.17487/RFC4203, October 2005,
751	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc4203>.
...
776	   [RFC7471]  Giacalone, S., Ward, D., Drake, J., Atlas, A., and S.
777	              Previdi, "OSPF Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric
778	              Extensions", RFC 7471, DOI 10.17487/RFC7471, March 2015,
779	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7471>.

     [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-r…  Alvaro Retana



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Subject: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Les,

> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsbe=
rg)
> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
[...]
> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior =
of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled be=
cause it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=20=20

1) Do you have data on this?

2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate on=
 one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the network?

3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenario=
 where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

- Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adjace=
nt node j. Clearly Dij>0.
- Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k are=
 missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between adj=
acent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and =
D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

It seems that the time needed:
- for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)
- for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in sync =
with k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs th=
e period of LSDB inconsistency?
It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this would =
mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shorte=
st path.

Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originated=
 by the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let'=
s start with the simple case.=20

Thanks,
--Bruno

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsbe=
rg)
> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>=20
> Henk -
>=20
> Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
> I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to repl=
y to this one.
> Top posting for better readability.
>=20
> There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
> There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of w=
hich is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
>=20
> I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly dif=
ferent than that for which TCP is used.
> I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which Br=
uno reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without an=
y changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude faster than it commonly does today.
> This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and will =
not need "TCP".
>=20
> Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
>=20
> a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
>=20
> b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address fami=
lies whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which I thin=
k is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments where =
multiple address family support is needed
>=20
> I really don't want to do either of the above.
>=20
> Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and both =
of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail will be re=
quired.
> It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK fas=
ter - and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
> The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is e=
xpressed in ISO 10589:
>=20
> " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
        > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
        > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
>=20
> Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds respectiv=
ely) associated with a much slower flooding rate and implementations I am a=
ware of use values in this order of magnitude. These numbers need to be red=
uced if we are to flood faster, but the relationship between the two needs =
to remain the same.
>=20
> It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will resu=
lt in additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and th=
is has some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implemen=
tation which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should=
 also be able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to =
be smarter than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
>=20
> LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-=
lsr-isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't=
 aware of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
> What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still considerin=
g. Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN ca=
n support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle =
faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout the=
 network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example=
 of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support faste=
r flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faste=
r flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=
 More work needs to be done here...
>=20
> In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think you=
 have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on th=
is topic,
>=20
> Thanx.
>=20
    > Les
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
> > To: lsr@ietf.org
> > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender =
isn't
> > enough
> >=20
> >=20
> > Hello all,
> >=20
> > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
> > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS
> > flooding.
> >=20
> > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to
> > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.
> > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.
> > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
> >=20
> >=20
> > What does TCP do:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
> >=20
> > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being
> > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size
> > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
> > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links between
> > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an educated
> > guess at what speed it can send.
> >=20
> >=20
> > The part we seem to be missing:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at
> > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?
> > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate
> > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able
> > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
> >=20
> > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,
> > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is look
> > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can
> > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
> > immediately
> > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the
> > PSNP,
> > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a
> > little
> > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
> >=20
> > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the
> > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This
> > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
> > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information
> > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what
> > TCP can learn from incoming acks.
> >=20
> >=20
> > The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
> > seconds.
> > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means
> > that
> > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
> > seconds.
> > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
> > whenever
> > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about
> > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes
> > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
> >=20
> > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the
> > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped
> > LSPs.
> > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will
> > probably
> > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might
> > send
> > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or
> > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
> >=20
> >=20
> > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a
> > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-control
> > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more
> > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do PSNPs
> > under load.
> >=20
> > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)
> > PSNPs.
> > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
> >=20
> >=20
> > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
> >=20
> > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs
> > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
> >=20
> > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
> > receiving
> > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on
> > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A receiver
> > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound
> > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
> > flow-control
> > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both. Maybe
> > the
> > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in
> > the
> > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
> >=20
> >=20
> > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks
> > (LANs).
> >=20
> > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections
> > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
> > connections ?
> > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?
> > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.
> >=20
> > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.
> > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine whether
> > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most
> > LSPs
> > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There
> > are
> > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send
> > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to
> > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their
> > sending speed accordingly.
> >=20
> > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best. Because
> > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make
> > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure
> > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than
> > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
> >=20
> >=20
> > My conclusion:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more
> > detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's
> > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enough.
> > But it's a start.
> >=20
> > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.
> >=20
> >=20
> > henk.
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding across a network
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Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 23:35:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Bruno -



Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person. =
 Ahhh...the good old days...



First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a s=
mall number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.

The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands=
). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.



Take the following simple topology:



   |  | ... |            |

     +---+             +---+

     | C |             | E |

     +---+             +---+

       |                 | 1000

     +---+             +---+

     | B |-------------| D |

     +---+   1000      +---+

       |                 |

       |                 |

        \               /

         \            /

          \         /

           \      /

             +---+

             | A |

             +---+



There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southb=
ound of A (not shown).

Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.



C is a node with 1000 neighbors.

When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via=
 C.

All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.

Let's say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20=
 LSPs/seconds.

If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.

All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay=
 time).

D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.



When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they =
will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.

But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP up=
dates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffi=
c.



Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to c=
onverge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a go=
od amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.



One can always come up with examples - based on a specific topology and a s=
pecific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face =
of inconsistent flooding speed support.

But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.



    Les



> -----Original Message-----

> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM

> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org

> Subject: Flooding across a network

>

> Les,

>

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> [...]

> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavio=
r

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?

>

> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenar=
io

> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

>

> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adja=
cent

> node j. Clearly Dij>0.

> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>

> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k =
are

> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

>

> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between

> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i;=
 and

> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

>

> It seems that the time needed:

> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)

> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in syn=
c with

> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

>

> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs

> the period of LSDB inconsistency?

> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this woul=
d

> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shor=
test

> path.

>

> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originat=
ed by

> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's =
start

> with the simple case.

>

> Thanks,

> --Bruno

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> >

> > Henk -

> >

> > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.

> > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to re=
ply to

> this one.

> > Top posting for better readability.

> >

> > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.

> > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of

> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

> >

> > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly

> different than that for which TCP is used.

> > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which =
Bruno

> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any

> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude

> faster than it commonly does today.

> > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and wil=
l not

> need "TCP".

> >

> > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

> >

> > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

> >

> > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address

> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which =
I

> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments =
where

> multiple address family support is needed

> >

> > I really don't want to do either of the above.

> >

> > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and

> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail wil=
l be

> required.

> > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK f=
aster -

> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.

> > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is

> expressed in ISO 10589:

> >

> > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic

>         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.

>         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

> >

> > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds

> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and

> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. Thes=
e

> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationshi=
p

> between the two needs to remain the same.

> >

> > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will re=
sult in

> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this h=
as

> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementatio=
n

> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also=
 be

> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smar=
ter

> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

> >

> > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-

> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware

> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.

> > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still consider=
ing.

> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can

> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion

> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle

> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout t=
he

> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller exampl=
e

> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support fast=
er

> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faste=
r

> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

> More work needs to be done here...

> >

> > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think y=
ou

> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on t=
his

> topic,

> >

> > Thanx.

> >

>     > Les

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Henk Smit

> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM

> > > To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sende=
r

> isn't

> > > enough

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:

> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00

> > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS

> > > flooding.

> > >

> > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to

> > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TC=
P.

> > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.

> > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control

> > >

> > >

> > > What does TCP do:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.

> > >

> > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being

> > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size

> > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.

> > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links betw=
een

> > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an

> educated

> > > guess at what speed it can send.

> > >

> > >

> > > The part we seem to be missing:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at

> > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?

> > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate

> > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able

> > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.

> > >

> > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,

> > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is lo=
ok

> > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs c=
an

> > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not

> > > immediately

> > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the

> > > PSNP,

> > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a

> > > little

> > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.

> > >

> > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause th=
e

> > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. Thi=
s

> > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do

> > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information

> > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than wh=
at

> > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.

> > >

> > >

> > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5

> > > seconds.

> > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means

> > > that

> > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5

> > > seconds.

> > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and

> > > whenever

> > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about

> > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.

> > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes

> > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.

> > >

> > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the

> > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped

> > > LSPs.

> > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will

> > > probably

> > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might

> > > send

> > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or

> > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.

> > >

> > >

> > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a

> > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-

> control

> > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a mor=
e

> > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do

> PSNPs

> > > under load.

> > >

> > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller=
)

> > > PSNPs.

> > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).

> > >

> > >

> > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.

> > >

> > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:

> > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm

> > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs

> > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism

> > >

> > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the

> > > receiving

> > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on

> > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A recei=
ver

> > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bo=
und

> > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a

> > > flow-control

> > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.

> Maybe

> > > the

> > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in

> > > the

> > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.

> > >

> > >

> > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point network=
s

> > > (LANs).

> > >

> > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections

> > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP

> > > connections ?

> > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DI=
S ?

> > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickl=
y.

> > >

> > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.

> > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine

> whether

> > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most

> > > LSPs

> > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There

> > > are

> > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can sen=
d

> > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to

> > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust the=
ir

> > > sending speed accordingly.

> > >

> > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.

> Because

> > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And mak=
e

> > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not su=
re

> > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than

> > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.

> > >

> > >

> > > My conclusion:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more

> > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.

> > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's

> > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enoug=
h.

> > > But it's a start.

> > >

> > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

> > >

> > >

> > > henk.

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > Lsr mailing list

> > > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Lsr mailing list

> > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>

> __________________________________________________________

> __________________________________________________________

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> modified, changed or falsified.

> Thank you.



--_000_MW3PR11MB46198A668B9F2532BCCC38FEC1A70MW3PR11MB4619namp_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Bruno -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Seems like it was not too long ago that we were d=
iscussing this in person. &nbsp;Ahhh...the good old days...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">First, let's agree that the interesting case does=
 not involve 1 or even a small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding spe=
ed does not matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The interesting cases involve a large number of L=
SPs (hundreds or thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance tech=
niques are not applicable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Take the following simple topology:<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; | ... |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | C |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | E |<o:p></o:p></span><=
/b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &nbsp;| 1000<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:=
p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | B |-------------| D |<o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43; &nbsp;&nbsp;1=
000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:=
p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | A |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">There is a topology northbound of C and E (not sh=
own) and a topology southbound of A (not shown).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where =
cost is high.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">C is a node with 1000 neighbors. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">When all links are up, shortest path for all nort=
hbound destinations is via C.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">All nodes in the network support fast flooding ex=
cept for Node D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Let&#8217;s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second =
and slow flooding (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">If &nbsp;Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 sec=
onds (plus internode delay time).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/pro=
cess the LSP updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinat=
ions via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has=
 yet to receive all LSP updates and still believes that shortest path is vi=
a B-C. It will loop traffic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would =
have taken 50 seconds to converge, but there would be significantly less lo=
oping. There could be a good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable =
to looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">One can always come up with examples &#8211; base=
d on a specific topology and a specific failure - where things might be bet=
ter/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsistent flooding speed support.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">But I hope this simple example illustrates the pi=
tfalls.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: bruno.decraene@orange.com &lt;bruno.de=
craene@orange.com&gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cis=
co.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Flooding across a network</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Les,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounce=
s@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:ls=
r-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; [...]</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the network sup=
port faster flooding the behavior</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the whole network may not be &quot;better=
&quot; when faster flooding is enabled</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB incon=
sistency.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where =
increasing the flooding rate on</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB in=
consistency across the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; network?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretica=
l analysis on a simple scenario</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; where a single LSP needs to be flooded acros=
s the network.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood th=
e LSP from node i to the adjacent</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - Let's call k the node originating this LSP=
 at t0=3D0s</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across=
 the network as all nodes but k are</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know about th=
e 'old' topology.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Let's call&nbsp; SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k,=
 using Dij as the metric between</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) t=
he shortest path from k to i; and</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i=
.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; It seems that the time needed:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get=
 in sync with k, is D(k,j)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - for all nodes across the network to learn =
about the LSP, and get in sync with</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding delay on =
one adjacency could prolongs</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; It seems to me that it can only improve/decr=
ease it. Otherwise, this would</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a link can =
increase the cost of the shortest</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; path.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Note: I agree that there are other cases, su=
ch as&nbsp; multiple LSPs originated by</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs originated =
by multiple nodes, but let's start</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; with the simple case.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Thanks,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; --Bruno</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounce=
s@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:ls=
r-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Henk -</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Thanx for your thoughtful posts.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I have read your later posts on this th=
read as well - but decided to reply to</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; this one.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Top posting for better readability.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; There is broad agreement that faster fl=
ooding is desirable.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; There are now two proposals as to how t=
o address the issue - neither of</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent=
).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I have commented on why IS-IS flooding =
requirements are significantly</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; different than that for which TCP is used.</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I think it is also useful to note that =
even the simple test case which Bruno</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reported on in last week's interim meeting d=
emonstrated that without any</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was abl=
e to flood an order of magnitude</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; faster than it commonly does today.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; This gives me hope that we are looking =
at the problem correctly and will not</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; need &quot;TCP&quot;.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Introducing a TCP based solution requir=
es:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; a)A major change to the adjacency forma=
tion logic</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; b)Removal of the independence of the IS=
-IS protocol from the address</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; families whose reachability advertisements i=
t supports - something which I</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; think is a great strength of the protocol - =
particularly in environments where</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; multiple address family support is needed</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; I really don't want to do either of the=
 above.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Your comments regarding PSNP response t=
imes are quite correct - and</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss this - t=
hough I agree more detail will be</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; required.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; It is intuitive that if you want to flo=
od faster you also need to ACK faster -</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; and probably even retransmit faster when tha=
t is needed.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; The basic relationship between retransm=
it interval and PSNP interval is</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &quot; partialSNPInterval - This is the=
 amount of time between periodic</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&gt; action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.&quot;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommended values =
(2 seconds and 5 seconds</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; respectively) associated with a much slower =
flooding rate and</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; implementations I am aware of use values in =
this order of magnitude. These</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we are to floo=
d faster, but the relationship</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; between the two needs to remain the same.</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; It is also true - as you state - that s=
ending ACKs more quickly will result in</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; additional PDUs which need to be received/pr=
ocessed by IS-IS - and this has</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; some impact. But I think it is reasonable to=
 expect that an implementation</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; which can support sending and receiving LSPs=
 at a faster rate should also be</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate.=
 But we still need to be smarter</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where=
 we have a burst.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; LANs are a more difficult problem than =
P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-lsr-</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this =
- but not because we aren't aware</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of this - just have focused on the P2P behav=
ior first.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; What the best behavior on a LAN may be =
is something I am still considering.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed at which =
the slowest IS on the LAN can</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; support may not be the best strategy - as it=
 also slows down the propagation</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; rate for systems downstream from the nodes o=
n the LAN which can handle</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an impact o=
n flooding speed throughout the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; network in a way which may be out of proport=
ion. This is a smaller example</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; of the larger issue that when only some node=
s in the network support faster</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network m=
ay not be &quot;better&quot; when faster</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs the =
period of LSDB inconsistency.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; More work needs to be done here...</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; In summary, I don't expect to have to &=
quot;reinvent TCP&quot; - but I do think you</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; have provided a useful perspective for us to=
 consider as we progress on this</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; topic,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Thanx.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Les</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ls=
r-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf Of Henk Smit</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:5=
8 AM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org=
"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">lsr@ietf.org</span>=
</a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congesti=
on-avoidance algorithm on the sender</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; isn't</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; enough</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello all,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde=
 and myself published this draft:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; That started this discussion about=
 flow/congestion control and ISIS</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; My thoughts were that once we star=
t implementing new algorithms to</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'l=
l end up with our own version of TCP.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think most people here have a go=
od general understanding of TCP.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; But if not, this is a good overvie=
w how TCP does it:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.or=
g/wiki/TCP_congestion_control">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://en.wikipedia.=
org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; What does TCP do:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP does 2 things: flow control an=
d congestion control.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Flow control is: the receiver t=
rying to prevent itself from being</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; overloaded. The receiver indicates=
, through the receiver-window-size</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; in the TCP acks, how much data it =
can or wants to receive.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Congestion control is: the send=
er trying to prevent the links between</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; sender and receiver from being ove=
rloaded. The sender makes an</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; educated</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; guess at what speed it can send.</=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; The part we seem to be missing:</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the sender to make a guess at =
what speed it can send, it looks at</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; how the transmission is behaving. =
Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Do drop-percentage and RTT change =
? Do acks come in at the same rate</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; as the sender sends segments ? Are=
 there duplicate acks ? To be able</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; to do this, the sender must know w=
hat to expect. How acks behave.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; If you want an ISIS sender to make=
 a guess at what speed it can send,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; without changing the protocol, the=
 only thing the sender can do is look</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; at the PSNPs that come back from t=
he receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be predicted. Because a good I=
SIS implementation does not</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; immediately</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; send a PSNP when it receives a LSP=
. 1) the receiver should jitter the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; like it should jitter all packets.=
 And 2) the receiver should wait a</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; little</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; to see if it can combine multiple =
acks into a single PSNP packet.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; In TCP, if a single segment gets l=
ost, each new segment will cause the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver to send an ack with the s=
eqnr of the last received byte. This</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; is called &quot;duplicate acks&quo=
t;. This triggers the sender to do</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this=
 can't be be done. The information</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender can get from looking at i=
ncoming PSNPs is a lot less than what</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP can learn from incoming acks.<=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem with sender-side conge=
stion control:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; In ISIS, all we know is that the d=
efault retransmit-interval is 5</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; And I think most implementations u=
se that as the default. This means</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; that</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the receiver of an LSP has one req=
uirement: send a PSNP within 5</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the rest, implementations are =
free to send PSNPs however and</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; whenever</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; they want. This means a sender can=
 not really make conclusions about</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capa=
city of the receiver, etc.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no ordering when flooding=
 LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a=
 lot harder.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; When you think about it, you reali=
ze that a sender should wait the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; full 5 seconds before it can make =
any real conclusions about dropped</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; If a sender looks at PSNPs to dete=
rmine its flooding speed, it will</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; probably</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be able to react without a del=
ay of a few seconds. A sender might</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; send</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; hunderds or thousands of LSPs in t=
hose 5 seconds, which might all or</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; partially be dropped, complicating=
 matters even further.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; A sender-sider algorithm should sp=
ecify how to do PSNPs.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; So imho a sender-side only algorit=
hm can't work just like that in a</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-vendor environment. We must =
not only specify a congestion-</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; control</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithm for the sender. We must =
also specify for the receiver a more</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; specific algorithm how and when to=
 send PSNPs. At least how to do</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; PSNPs</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; under load.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that this might result in the=
 receiver sending more (and smaller)</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; More packets might mean more conge=
stion (inside routers).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Will receiver-side flow-control wo=
rk ?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't know if that's enough. It =
will certainly help.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think to tackle this problem, we=
 need 3 parts:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) sender-side congestion-control =
algorithm</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) more detailed algorithm on rece=
iver when and how to send PSNPs</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) receiver-side flow-control mech=
anism</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; As discussed at length, I don't kn=
ow if the ISIS process on the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiving</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; router can actually know if its ru=
nning out of resources (buffers on</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; interfaces, linecards, etc). That'=
s implementation dependent. A receiver</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; can definitely advertise a fixed v=
alue. So the sender has an upper bound</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; to use when doing congestion-contr=
ol. Just like TCP has both a</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-control</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; window and a congestion-control wi=
ndow, and a sender uses both.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Maybe</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver can even advertise a dyna=
mic value. Maybe now, maybe only in</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; future. An advertised upper limit =
seems useful to me today.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; What I didn't like about our own p=
roposal (flooding over TCP):</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem I saw with flooding ov=
er TCP concerns multi-point networks</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding over a multi-point n=
etwork, setting up TCP connections</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; introduces serious challenges. Who=
 are the endpoints of the TCP</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; connections ?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LA=
N create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no backup DIS in ISIS (un=
like OSPF). Things get messy quickly.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; However, the other two proposals d=
o not solve this problem either.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; How will a sender-side congestion-=
avoidence algorithm determine</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; whether</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; there were drops ? There are no ac=
ks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; that are broadcasted are received =
by all other ISes on the LAN. There</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; are</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; no acks. Only after the DIS has se=
nt its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs to request retransmissions. =
It seems impossible (or very hard) to</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; me for all ISes on a LAN to keep t=
rack of dropped LSPs and adjust their</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; sending speed accordingly.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding on a LAN, the receiv=
er-side algorithm seems best.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Because</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; all ISes can see what the lowest a=
dvertised sending-speed is. And make</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; sure they send slow enough to not =
overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; this is a good solution, but is se=
ems easier and more realistic than</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-s=
ide congestion-avoidance.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; My conclusion:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sender-side congestion-control won=
't work without specifying in more</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; detail how and when to send PSNPs.=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Receiver-side flow-control will ce=
rtainly help. I dont' know if it's</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; good enough. I don't know if adver=
tising a static value is good enough.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; But it's a start.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I still think we'll end up re-impl=
ementing a new (and weaker) TCP.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; __________________________________=
_____________</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><s=
pan style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/lsr">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; _______________________________________=
________</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/lsr"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https:=
//www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
______________</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
______________</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; _____</p>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 02:03:58 +0200
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Hi Les,

A side comment but your example shows another - one may say even much more
serious issue.

Assume we have LFA/TI-LFA enabled in the network and precomputed on B which
get's activated and shifts traffic to E when detects that C is down.
Detection is fast .. 10s-100s of milliseconds.

Now if B converges fast and recomputes topology much faster then D it may
remove protection and send packets to D natively. Well clearly as we
established D is slow and will loop it back.

That is why I mentioned the other day that a fast control plane is not
always a good thing (I am sure many will say the opposite - but it is ok
;).

But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rather a
good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.

Best,
Robert.



On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:35 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Bruno -
>
>
>
> Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in
> person.  Ahhh...the good old days...
>
>
>
> First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a
> small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
>
> The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
> thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not
> applicable.
>
>
>
> Take the following simple topology:
>
>
>
> *   |  | ... |            |*
>
> *     +---+             +---+*
>
> *     | C |             | E |*
>
> *     +---+             +---+*
>
> *       |                 | 1000*
>
> *     +---+             +---+*
>
> *     | B |-------------| D |*
>
> *     +---+   1000      +---+*
>
> *       |                 |*
>
> *       |                 |*
>
> *        \               /*
>
> *         \            /*
>
> *          \         /*
>
> *           \      /*
>
> *             +---+*
>
> *             | A |*
>
> *             +---+*
>
>
>
> There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology
> southbound of A (not shown).
>
> Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
>
>
>
> C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
>
> When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is
> via C.
>
> All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
>
> Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Nod=
e D) is
> 20 LSPs/seconds.
>
> If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
>
> All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode
> delay time).
>
> D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
>
>
>
> When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates the=
y
> will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.
>
> But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP
> updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop
> traffic.
>
>
>
> Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to
> converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a
> good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
>
>
>
> One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific topolo=
gy and a
> specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the fa=
ce
> of inconsistent flooding speed support.
>
> But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
>
>
>
>     Les
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
>
> > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>
> > Subject: Flooding across a network
>
> >
>
> > Les,
>
> >
>
> > > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>] On
> Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>
> > (ginsberg)
>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>
> > [...]
>
> > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
> behavior
>
> > of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enable=
d
>
> > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>
> >
>
> > 1) Do you have data on this?
>
> >
>
> > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rat=
e
> on
>
> > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
>
> > network?
>
> >
>
> > 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple
> scenario
>
> > where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
>
> >
>
> > - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the
> adjacent
>
> > node j. Clearly Dij>0.
>
> > - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
>
> >
>
> > >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but =
k
> are
>
> > missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
>
> >
>
> > Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between
>
> > adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to
> i; and
>
> > D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i..
>
> >
>
> > It seems that the time needed:
>
> > - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)
>
> > - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in
> sync with
>
> > k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)
>
> >
>
> > Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolong=
s
>
> > the period of LSDB inconsistency?
>
> > It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this
> would
>
> > mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the
> shortest
>
> > path.
>
> >
>
> > Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs
> originated by
>
> > the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let'=
s
> start
>
> > with the simple case.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > --Bruno
>
> >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>] On
> Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>
> > (ginsberg)
>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>
> > >
>
> > > Henk -
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
>
> > > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to
> reply to
>
> > this one.
>
> > > Top posting for better readability.
>
> > >
>
> > > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
>
> > > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither =
of
>
> > which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
>
> > >
>
> > > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly
>
> > different than that for which TCP is used.
>
> > > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case whic=
h
> Bruno
>
> > reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without an=
y
>
> > changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of
> magnitude
>
> > faster than it commonly does today.
>
> > > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and
> will not
>
> > need "TCP".
>
> > >
>
> > > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
>
> > >
>
> > > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
>
> > >
>
> > > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address
>
> > families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something whic=
h
> I
>
> > think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environment=
s
> where
>
> > multiple address family support is needed
>
> > >
>
> > > I really don't want to do either of the above.
>
> > >
>
> > > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and
>
> > both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail
> will be
>
> > required.
>
> > > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK
> faster -
>
> > and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
>
> > > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval =
is
>
> > expressed in ISO 10589:
>
> > >
>
> > > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
>
> >         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
>
> >         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
>
> > >
>
> > > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds
>
> > respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
>
> > implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude.
> These
>
> > numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the
> relationship
>
> > between the two needs to remain the same.
>
> > >
>
> > > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will
> result in
>
> > additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this
> has
>
> > some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an
> implementation
>
> > which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should
> also be
>
> > able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be
> smarter
>
> > than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
>
> > >
>
> > > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far
> draft-ginsberg-lsr-
>
> > isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't
> aware
>
> > of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
>
> > > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still
> considering.
>
> > Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN c=
an
>
> > support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the
> propagation
>
> > rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle
>
> > faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout
> the
>
> > network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller
> example
>
> > of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support
> faster
>
> > flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
> faster
>
> > flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y.
>
> > More work needs to be done here...
>
> > >
>
> > > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think
> you
>
> > have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on
> this
>
> > topic,
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanx.
>
> > >
>
> >     > Les
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
>
> > > > To: lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the
> sender
>
> > isn't
>
> > > > enough
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Hello all,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:
>
> > > >
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
>
> > > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS
>
> > > > flooding.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to
>
> > > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of
> TCP.
>
> > > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.
>
> > > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
>
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > What does TCP do:
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from bein=
g
>
> > > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-siz=
e
>
> > > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
>
> > > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links
> between
>
> > > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an
>
> > educated
>
> > > > guess at what speed it can send.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The part we seem to be missing:
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks =
at
>
> > > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT=
 ?
>
> > > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rat=
e
>
> > > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be abl=
e
>
> > > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can sen=
d,
>
> > > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is
> look
>
> > > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs
> can
>
> > > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
>
> > > > immediately
>
> > > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP.. 1) the receiver should jitter
> the
>
> > > > PSNP,
>
> > > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait =
a
>
> > > > little
>
> > > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause
> the
>
> > > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte.
> This
>
> > > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
>
> > > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The informatio=
n
>
> > > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than
> what
>
> > > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
>
> > > > seconds.
>
> > > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This mean=
s
>
> > > > that
>
> > > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
>
> > > > seconds.
>
> > > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
>
> > > > whenever
>
> > > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions abou=
t
>
> > > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
>
> > > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This mak=
es
>
> > > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the
>
> > > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about droppe=
d
>
> > > > LSPs.
>
> > > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will
>
> > > > probably
>
> > > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender mig=
ht
>
> > > > send
>
> > > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all o=
r
>
> > > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a
>
> > > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-
>
> > control
>
> > > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a
> more
>
> > > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do
>
> > PSNPs
>
> > > > under load.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and
> smaller)
>
> > > > PSNPs.
>
> > > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
>
> > > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
>
> > > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs
>
> > > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
>
> > > >
>
> > > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
>
> > > > receiving
>
> > > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers o=
n
>
> > > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A
> receiver
>
> > > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper
> bound
>
> > > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
>
> > > > flow-control
>
> > > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.
>
> > Maybe
>
> > > > the
>
> > > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only =
in
>
> > > > the
>
> > > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point
> networks
>
> > > > (LANs).
>
> > > >
>
> > > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connection=
s
>
> > > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
>
> > > > connections ?
>
> > > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the
> DIS ?
>
> > > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy
> quickly.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.
>
> > > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine
>
> > whether
>
> > > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume mo=
st
>
> > > > LSPs
>
> > > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. The=
re
>
> > > > are
>
> > > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can
> send
>
> > > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard=
)
> to
>
> > > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust
> their
>
> > > > sending speed accordingly.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.
>
> > Because
>
> > > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And
> make
>
> > > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not
> sure
>
> > > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic tha=
n
>
> > > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > My conclusion:
>
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> > > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in mor=
e
>
> > > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.
>
> > > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it'=
s
>
> > > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good
> enough.
>
> > > > But it's a start.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > henk.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > > Lsr mailing list
>
> > > > Lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > Lsr mailing list
>
> > > Lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> >
>
> > __________________________________________________________
>
> > __________________________________________________________
>
> > _____
>
> >
>
> > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>
> > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
> > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez
> recu ce
>
> > message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s
>
> > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme
> ou
>
> > falsifie. Merci.
>
> >
>
> > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
>
> > information that may be protected by law;
>
> > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
> delete
>
> > this message and its attachments.
>
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>
> > Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--000000000000c5f0bf05a4ef80bb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Les,<div><br></div><div>A side comment but your example=
 shows another - one may say even much more serious issue.=C2=A0</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Assume we have LFA/TI-LFA enabled in the network and precomp=
uted on B which get&#39;s activated and shifts traffic to E when detects th=
at C is down. Detection is fast .. 10s-100s of milliseconds.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Now if B converges fast and recomputes topology much faste=
r then D it may remove protection and send packets to D natively. Well clea=
rly as we established D is slow and will loop it back.=C2=A0</div><div><br>=
</div><div>That is why I mentioned the other day that a fast control plane =
is not always a good thing (I am sure many will say the opposite - but it i=
s ok ;).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>But this proves that consistent con=
vergence time in a domain is rather a good thing regardless if it takes 2 s=
ec or 50 sec on all nodes.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>R=
obert.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:35 AM Le=
s Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ie=
tf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p>Bruno -<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in perso=
n.=C2=A0 Ahhh...the good old days...<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>First, let&#39;s agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or e=
ven a small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousa=
nds). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicab=
le.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Take the following simple topology:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | ... |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | C |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | E |<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0| 1000<u></u><=
u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | B |-------------| D |<u></u><u></u></span></b></=
p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+ =C2=A0=C2=A01000=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0+---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u=
></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u=
></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
A |<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology sou=
thbound of A (not shown).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>C is a node with 1000 neighbors. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is =
via C.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p>Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (No=
de D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If =C2=A0Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode de=
lay time).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates th=
ey will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p>But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP=
 updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop tra=
ffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds t=
o converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a=
 good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific topol=
ogy and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged i=
n the face of inconsistent flooding speed support.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>&gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank=
">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange=
.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM</p>
<p>&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a></p>
<p>&gt; Subject: Flooding across a network</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; Les,</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg</p>
<p>&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p>&gt; [...]</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding th=
e behavior</p>
<p>&gt; of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster floo=
ding is enabled</p>
<p>&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding=
 rate on</p>
<p>&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<=
/p>
<p>&gt; network?</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; 3) In the meantime, let&#39;s try the theoretical analysis on a sim=
ple scenario</p>
<p>&gt; where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; - Let&#39;s call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i t=
o the adjacent</p>
<p>&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.</p>
<p>&gt; - Let&#39;s call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nod=
es but k are</p>
<p>&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know about the &#39;old&#39; topolog=
y.</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; Let&#39;s call=C2=A0 SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the m=
etric between</p>
<p>&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let&#39;s call SP(k,i) the shortest path fr=
om k to i; and</p>
<p>&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i..</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; It seems that the time needed:</p>
<p>&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k=
,j)</p>
<p>&gt; - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get =
in sync with</p>
<p>&gt; k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could pro=
longs</p>
<p>&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency?</p>
<p>&gt; It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, thi=
s would</p>
<p>&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of th=
e shortest</p>
<p>&gt; path.</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as=C2=A0 multiple LS=
Ps originated by</p>
<p>&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but =
let&#39;s start</p>
<p>&gt; with the simple case.</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; Thanks,</p>
<p>&gt; --Bruno</p>
<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg</p>
<p>&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Henk -</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Thanx for your thoughtful posts.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but deci=
ded to reply to</p>
<p>&gt; this one.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Top posting for better readability.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.</p=
>
<p>&gt; &gt; There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - n=
either of</p>
<p>&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are signif=
icantly</p>
<p>&gt; different than that for which TCP is used.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test ca=
se which Bruno</p>
<p>&gt; reported on in last week&#39;s interim meeting demonstrated that wi=
thout any</p>
<p>&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of =
magnitude</p>
<p>&gt; faster than it commonly does today.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctl=
y and will not</p>
<p>&gt; need &quot;TCP&quot;.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Introducing a TCP based solution requires:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the a=
ddress</p>
<p>&gt; families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something =
which I</p>
<p>&gt; think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environ=
ments where</p>
<p>&gt; multiple address family support is needed</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I really don&#39;t want to do either of the above.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct =
- and</p>
<p>&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more deta=
il will be</p>
<p>&gt; required.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need=
 to ACK faster -</p>
<p>&gt; and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP in=
terval is</p>
<p>&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &quot; partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between=
 periodic</p>
<p>&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; action for tra=
nsmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.</p>
<p>&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; It shall be le=
ss than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.&quot;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 second=
s</p>
<p>&gt; respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and</p>
<p>&gt; implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude=
. These</p>
<p>&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relat=
ionship</p>
<p>&gt; between the two needs to remain the same.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickl=
y will result in</p>
<p>&gt; additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and =
this has</p>
<p>&gt; some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an impleme=
ntation</p>
<p>&gt; which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate shoul=
d also be</p>
<p>&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to b=
e smarter</p>
<p>&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draf=
t-ginsberg-lsr-</p>
<p>&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we ar=
en&#39;t aware</p>
<p>&gt; of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still=
 considering.</p>
<p>&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the L=
AN can</p>
<p>&gt; support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the pr=
opagation</p>
<p>&gt; rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can han=
dle</p>
<p>&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throug=
hout the</p>
<p>&gt; network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller =
example</p>
<p>&gt; of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network suppor=
t faster</p>
<p>&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&=
quot; when faster</p>
<p>&gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsis=
tency.</p>
<p>&gt; More work needs to be done here...</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; In summary, I don&#39;t expect to have to &quot;reinvent TCP&q=
uot; - but I do think you</p>
<p>&gt; have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progres=
s on this</p>
<p>&gt; topic,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Thanx.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; Les</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">lsr-bo=
unces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf Of Henk Smit</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><sp=
an style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">lsr@ietf.org</span></a><=
/p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm =
on the sender</p>
<p>&gt; isn&#39;t</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; enough</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello all,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published t=
his draft:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-is=
is-flooding-over-tcp-00" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; That started this discussion about flow/congestion contro=
l and ISIS</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algo=
rithms to</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; optimize ISIS flooding speed, we&#39;ll end up with our o=
wn version of TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think most people here have a good general understandin=
g of TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_c=
ontrol" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://en.wikipedia.=
org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; What does TCP do:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.</=
p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself=
 from being</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-=
window-size</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive=
.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent th=
e links between</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender mak=
es an</p>
<p>&gt; educated</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; guess at what speed it can send.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The part we seem to be missing:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,=
 it looks at</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What =
is the RTT ?</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at th=
e same rate</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ?=
 To be able</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks=
 behave.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed =
it can send,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender =
can do is look</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RT=
T of PSNPs can</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does=
 not</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; immediately</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; send a PSNP when it receives a LSP.. 1) the receiver shou=
ld jitter the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver sh=
ould wait a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; little</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP=
 packet.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment w=
ill cause the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last receiv=
ed byte. This</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; is called &quot;duplicate acks&quot;. This triggers the s=
ender to do</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can&#39;t be be done. =
The information</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot =
less than what</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP can learn from incoming acks.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem with sender-side congestion control:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-inter=
val is 5</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; And I think most implementations use that as the default.=
 This means</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; that</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP w=
ithin 5</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs howe=
ver and</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; whenever</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; they want. This means a sender can not really make conclu=
sions about</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, e=
tc.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs=
. This makes</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When you think about it, you realize that a sender should=
 wait the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions ab=
out dropped</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding spee=
d, it will</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; probably</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A =
sender might</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; send</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which m=
ight all or</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.<=
/p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.<=
/p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; So imho a sender-side only algorithm can&#39;t work just =
like that in a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a cong=
estion-</p>
<p>&gt; control</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the re=
ceiver a more</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least h=
ow to do</p>
<p>&gt; PSNPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; under load.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that this might result in the receiver sending more =
(and smaller)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).=
</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Will receiver-side flow-control work ?</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s enough. It will certainly =
help.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to se=
nd PSNPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; As discussed at length, I don&#39;t know if the ISIS proc=
ess on the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiving</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; router can actually know if its running out of resources =
(buffers on</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; interfaces, linecards, etc). That&#39;s implementation de=
pendent. A receiver</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has=
 an upper bound</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has b=
oth a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-control</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses=
 both.</p>
<p>&gt; Maybe</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, m=
aybe only in</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me toda=
y.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; What I didn&#39;t like about our own proposal (flooding o=
ver TCP):</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-p=
oint networks</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs).</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP =
connections</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of t=
he TCP</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; connections ?</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connecti=
on to the DIS ?</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get =
messy quickly.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; However, the other two proposals do not solve this proble=
m either.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm det=
ermine</p>
<p>&gt; whether</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We=
 assume most</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on th=
e LAN. There</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; are</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, =
ISes can send</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or=
 very hard) to</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs an=
d adjust their</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sending speed accordingly.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems=
 best.</p>
<p>&gt; Because</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed=
 is. And make</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS=
. I&#39;m not sure</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more rea=
listic than</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidanc=
e.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; My conclusion:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sender-side congestion-control won&#39;t work without spe=
cifying in more</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; detail how and when to send PSNPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont&#3=
9; know if it&#39;s</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; good enough. I don&#39;t know if advertising a static val=
ue is good enough.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; But it&#39;s a start.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I still think we&#39;ll end up re-implementing a new (and=
 weaker) TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" tar=
get=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=
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<p>&gt; </p>
<p>&gt; __________________________________________________________</p>
<p>&gt; __________________________________________________________</p>
<p>&gt; _____</p>
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Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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[as WG member]

I think it would be more productive if we stay focused on trying to =
improve flooding speed/efficiency here. How about let's get some of the =
proposals being mulled over actually written, and provide some data, and =
leave all the hand-wringing and theorizing about being too-successful =
for after we've shown we could be? :)

Thanks,
Chris.


> On May 5, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rather =
a good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.=20
>=20


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Subject: [Lsr] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few editorial nits:

— Section 1 —

   In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be

Nit: you need a closing parenthesis instead of the second comma.

   This capability, referred to as Entropy Readable Label
   Depth (ERLD) as defined in [RFC8662] may be used by ingress LSRs to

Nit: this needs a comma after the citation.

— Section 3 —

   originator.  Similarly in a multi-domain network, the identity of the

Nit: “Similarly” needs a comma after it.

   When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it

Nit: remove the open parenthesis.

   an Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) is outside of the scope

Nit: the abbreviation “ASBR” is not used elsewhere in the document, so there’s
no reason to include it.

— Section 4 —

   A new MSD-type [RFC8491], called ERLD-MSD is defined to advertise the

Nit: 8491 capitalizes the “T” in “MSD-Type”.
Nit: there needs to be a comma after “ERLD-MSD”.




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Subject: [Lsr] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

— Section 1 —

   In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be

Nit: you need a closing parenthesis instead of the second comma.

   This capability, referred to as Entropy Readable Label
   Depth (ERLD) as defined in [RFC8662] may be used by ingress LSRs to

Nit: this needs a comma after the citation.

— Section 3 —

   When an OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between

Nit: the abbreviation “ABR” is not used elsewhere in the document, so there’s
no reason to include it.

— Section 3.1 —

   Prefix TLV includes a one octet Flags field.

Nit: hyphenate “one-octet” as a compound modifier.

— Section 4 —

   The ERLD is advertised in a Node MSD sub-TLV [RFC8476] using the
   ERLD-MSD type defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-mpls-elc].

Just checking: is the IS-IS draft the right reference here in this OSPF
document?

There does seem to be so much common text between that document and this one
that I really don’t understand why these (the IS-IS and OSPF signaling) were
not put into one document, and this reference really drives that home.




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COMMENT:
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What Barry said.

Also, I presume your AD has approved going over the usual limit of five authors.




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COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

As with the IS-IS document, I assume the presence of six authors, above our
usual limit of five, was approved by your AD.

I agree with Barry's point that this document and the IS-IS document could
easily have been combined.  Even some of the syntactical things he corrected
are present in both documents.

When would you ever not do what the two SHOULDs in Section 3 say?




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From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 09:52:08 +0200
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To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Christian,

It is not about "hand-wringing and theorizing about being too-successful".

It is about impact to the overall network service when you make ISIS
convergence not consistent across nodes of the topology, I think our goal
is not to converge ISIS faster by improving flooding speed ... it is much
more about how to deliver user packets with minimal disruption upon
topology changes.

Best,
R.

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 5:48 AM Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote:

> [as WG member]
>
> I think it would be more productive if we stay focused on trying to
> improve flooding speed/efficiency here. How about let's get some of the
> proposals being mulled over actually written, and provide some data, and
> leave all the hand-wringing and theorizing about being too-successful for
> after we've shown we could be? :)
>
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>
>
> > On May 5, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
> >
> > But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rather a
> good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.
> >
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Christian,<div><br></div><div>It is not about &quot;hand-w=
ringing and theorizing about being too-successful&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r></div><div>It is about impact to the overall network service when you mak=
e ISIS convergence=C2=A0not consistent=C2=A0across nodes of the topology, I=
 think our goal is not to converge ISIS faster by improving flooding speed =
... it is much more about how to deliver user packets with minimal disrupti=
on upon topology changes.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best,<br>R.</div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Wed, May 6, 2020 at 5:48 AM Christian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@=
chopps.org">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[as WG member]<br>
<br>
I think it would be more productive if we stay focused on trying to improve=
 flooding speed/efficiency here. How about let&#39;s get some of the propos=
als being mulled over actually written, and provide some data, and leave al=
l the hand-wringing and theorizing about being too-successful for after we&=
#39;ve shown we could be? :)<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Chris.<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On May 5, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert=
@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rather=
 a good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes. <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Murray Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Murray:

Hi!

Yes, I have.

In this case, this document was the result of merging several other
documents so it was decided to allow 6 authors (the rest became
contributors). The same is true for the OSPF version.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On May 6, 2020 at 1:44:50 AM, Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker (
noreply@ietf.org) wrote:

Also, I presume your AD has approved going over the usual limit of five
authors.

--000000000000f999bc05a4f895b5
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">Murray:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica=
,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;=
font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-siz=
e:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"=
>Yes, I have.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">In th=
is case, this document was the result of merging several other documents so=
 it was decided to allow 6 authors (the rest became contributors). The same=
 is true for the OSPF version.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Ari=
al;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font=
-size:13px">Thanks!</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-siz=
e:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"=
>Alvaro.</div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on">On May 6, 2020 at 1:44:50 AM, Mu=
rray Kucherawy via Datatracker (<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org">noreply=
@ietf.org</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><spa=
n><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;=
,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-w=
eight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tr=
ansform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,2=
55,255);display:inline!important;float:none">Also, I presume your AD has ap=
proved going over the usual limit of five authors.<span class=3D"Apple-conv=
erted-space">=C2=A0</span></span></div></span></blockquote> <div class=3D"g=
mail_signature"></div></body></html>

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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>,  Barry Leiba via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org,  draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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On May 6, 2020 at 1:12:42 AM, Barry Leiba wrote:


Barry:

Hi!


> =E2=80=94 Section 4 =E2=80=94
>
> The ERLD is advertised in a Node MSD sub-TLV [RFC8476] using the
> ERLD-MSD type defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-mpls-elc].
>
> Just checking: is the IS-IS draft the right reference here in this OSPF
> document?

Yes, it is. =C2=A0The new ERLD-MSD type is defined there for all routing pr=
otocols.


> There does seem to be so much common text between that document and this =
one
> that I really don=E2=80=99t understand why these (the IS-IS and OSPF sign=
aling) were
> not put into one document, and this reference really drives that home.

One of the objectives of merging the (old) isis and ospf WGs into the
lsr WG (this happened a couple of years ago) was to have common
discussions about two IETF protocols that are similar: both are link
state protocols, for example.

However, they are different protocols and deployments use one or the
other -- sometimes with religious-like fervor.

We have discussed the prospect of having a single document specifying
both OSPF and ISIS behavior, plus any corresponding BGP-LS extensions.
Among other things, that could reduce the document load... =C2=A0However,
the consensus in the WG is that the result of that would be potential
confusion when it comes time to talk about the features supported or
required in a specific network. =C2=A0For example, it is much clearer if an
RFP requests support for rfcxxx than if it has to be specific about
rfcxxx/Section y (where the desired protocol extension is specified),
while not requiring Section z (for the other protocol).

As a result we ended up with two documents. =C2=A0As a tradeoff, I've
insisted in as much common language as possible and to process the two
documents the same time when possible.


Thanks!

Alvaro.


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To: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>, rtg-dir@ietf.org
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 13:40:19 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi Dhruv,

thanks, for your comments, please see inline:


On 05/05/2020 11:44, Dhruv Dhody via Datatracker wrote:
> Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
> Review result: Has Issues
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
> Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
> they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
> request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
> For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
> ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
> 
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
> be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
> comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
> updating the draft.
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
> Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
> Review Date: 2020-05-05
> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
> Intended Status: Proposed Standard
> 
> Summary:
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
> before publication.
> 
> Comments:
> 
> Disclaimer: I reviewed an earlier version (-09) as part of the early
> directorate review, which could be located at -
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-09-rtgdir-early-dhody-2019-09-12/
> 
> I have reviewed this and the IS-IS I-D together and you will find similar
> comments for both I-Ds. You could discuss them in one place.
> 
> Major Issues:
> None
> 
> Minor Issues:
> (1) Introduction
> 
>     Recently, mechanisms have been defined to signal labels via link-
>     state Interior Gateway Protocols (IGP) such as OSPFv2 [RFC8665] and
>     OSPFv3 [RFC8666].
> 
>     Is there a better way to introduce OSPF extension for SR (than saying that
>     it is just an example to signal labels)?

What about:

Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane relies on Interior Gateway 
Protocols (IGP) such as OSPFv2 [RFC8665] and OSPFv3 [RFC8666] to signal 
labels.


> 
> (2) Section 3
> 
>      Query: The text says that the ABR "MUST" preserve the ELC setting where as
>      the ASBR "SHOULD" preserve it. What is the reason for using SHOULD in case
>      of ASBR? Maybe we can spell out in which case ASBR might not preserve the
>      ELC setting.

redistribution is a local matter on the box and is not standardized, so 
it's quite hard to mandate a specific behavior. That's why SHOULD.


> 
> (3) Section 4
> 
>     The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
>     advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.
> 
>     Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
>     support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
>     advertised only when following conditions are met:

What is meant is that even though all the below conditions are set, if 
the node does not support the advertisement, one can not conclude what 
its ERLD is.

If the node supports the advertisement of the ERLD, but the below 
conditions are not met, the node should not advertise the ELC capability 
in a first place.

> 
>     *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
>        the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].
> 
>     *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
>        value.
> 
>     *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
>        load-balancing function.
> 
>     Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
>     absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
>     it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?
> 
> (4) Section 4
> 
>      What would be the behavior if an OSPF router receives a ERLD of the node
>      but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
>      RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within OSPF. If it is to
>      just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.

the behavior is specified in the RFC 8662.  OSPF is just a messenger, 
not the consumer of this information.

> 
> Nits:
> (1) Change OSPF Working group to LSR Working group in the metadata (first line
> of the I-D)

fixed.

> 
> (2) Abstract - use term LSP instead of tunnel for consistency
> 
>     OLD:
>     An ingress Label
>     Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
>     given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
>     via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
>     as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel.
>     NEW:
>     An ingress Label
>     Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
>     given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
>     via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
>     as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.
>     END

fixed.

> 
> (3) Section 4 s/Node MSD sub-TLV/Node MSD TLV/

fixed.


> 
> (4) Expand BGP-LS on first use.

done.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> Thanks!
> Dhruv
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12
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Hi Dhruv,

thanks, for your comments, please see inline:


On 05/05/2020 11:43, Dhruv Dhody via Datatracker wrote:
> Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
> Review result: Has Issues
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
> Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
> they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
> request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
> For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
> ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
> 
> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
> be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
> comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
> updating the draft.
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12
> Reviewer: Dhruv Dhody
> Review Date: 2020-05-05
> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
> Intended Status: Proposed Standard
> 
> Summary:
> I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
> before publication.
> 
> Comments:
> Disclaimer: I reviewed an earlier version (-08) as part of the early
> directorate review, which could be located at -
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-08-rtgdir-early-dhody-2019-09-12/
> 
> I have reviewed this and the OSPF I-D together and you will find similar
> comments for both I-Ds. You could discuss them in one place.
> 
> Major Issues:
> None
> 
> Minor Issues:
> 
> (1) Introduction
> 
>     Recently, mechanisms have been defined to signal labels via link-
>     state Interior Gateway Protocols (IGP) such as IS-IS [RFC8667].
> 
>     Is there a better way to introduce IS-IS extension for SR (than saying that
>     it is just an example to signal labels)?


What about:

Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane relies on Interior Gateway 
Protocols (IGP) such as IS-IS [RFC8667] to signal labels.


> 
> (2) Section 3
> 
>      Query: The text says that the ABR "MUST" preserve the ELC setting where as
>      the ASBR "SHOULD" preserve it. What is the reason for using SHOULD in case
>      of ASBR? Maybe we can spell out in which case ASBR might not preserve the
>      ELC setting.

redistribution is a local matter on the box and is not standardized, so 
it's quite hard to mandate a specific behavior. That's why SHOULD.

> 
> (3) Section 4
> 
>     The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
>     advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.
> 
>     Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
>     support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
>     advertised only when following conditions are met:

What is meant is that even though all the below conditions are set, if 
the node does not support the advertisement, one can not conclude what 
its ERLD is.

If the node supports the advertisement of the ERLD, but the below 
conditions are not met, the node should not advertise the ELC capability 
in a first place.

> 
>     *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
>        the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].
> 
>     *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
>        value.
> 
>     *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
>        load-balancing function.
> 
>     Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
>     absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
>     it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?
> 
>     I see similar language in RFC8491 but I think we could be clearer in this
>     I-D for ERLD.
> 
> (4) Section 4
> 
>      What would be the behavior if an IS-IS router receives an ERLD of the node
>      but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
>      RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within IS-IS. If it is to
>      just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.

the behavior is specified in the RFC 8662.  ISIS is just a messenger, 
not the consumer of this information.


> 
> (5) Section 4
> 
>      We need to clearly state that this new MSD Type is carried in Node MSD
>      sub-TLV as described in [RFC8491]. And then I guess we don't really need
>      figure 2? The format is as per RFC 8491!

done.

> 
> Nits:
> 
> (1) Abstract - use term LSP instead of tunnel for consistency
> 
>     OLD:
>     An ingress Label
>     Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
>     given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
>     via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
>     as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel.
>     NEW:
>     An ingress Label
>     Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
>     given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
>     via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
>     as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.
>     END
> 

fixed

> (2) Expand BGP-LS on first use!

fixed.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> Thanks!
> Dhruv
> 
> 
> 
> 


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To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:21:35 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Barry,

thanks for comments, I fixed them all.

thanks,
Peter


On 06/05/2020 06:58, Barry Leiba via Datatracker wrote:
> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Just a few editorial nits:
> 
> — Section 1 —
> 
>     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> 
> Nit: you need a closing parenthesis instead of the second comma.
> 
>     This capability, referred to as Entropy Readable Label
>     Depth (ERLD) as defined in [RFC8662] may be used by ingress LSRs to
> 
> Nit: this needs a comma after the citation.
> 
> — Section 3 —
> 
>     originator.  Similarly in a multi-domain network, the identity of the
> 
> Nit: “Similarly” needs a comma after it.
> 
>     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
> 
> Nit: remove the open parenthesis.
> 
>     an Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) is outside of the scope
> 
> Nit: the abbreviation “ASBR” is not used elsewhere in the document, so there’s
> no reason to include it.
> 
> — Section 4 —
> 
>     A new MSD-type [RFC8491], called ERLD-MSD is defined to advertise the
> 
> Nit: 8491 capitalizes the “T” in “MSD-Type”.
> Nit: there needs to be a comma after “ERLD-MSD”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:26:57 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Barry,

thanks for your comments. I have fixed all editorial comments.

For the last two comments, Alvaro has already taken care of.

thanks,
Peter


On 06/05/2020 07:12, Barry Leiba via Datatracker wrote:
> Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> — Section 1 —
> 
>     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> 
> Nit: you need a closing parenthesis instead of the second comma.
> 
>     This capability, referred to as Entropy Readable Label
>     Depth (ERLD) as defined in [RFC8662] may be used by ingress LSRs to
> 
> Nit: this needs a comma after the citation.
> 
> — Section 3 —
> 
>     When an OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> 
> Nit: the abbreviation “ABR” is not used elsewhere in the document, so there’s
> no reason to include it.
> 
> — Section 3.1 —
> 
>     Prefix TLV includes a one octet Flags field.
> 
> Nit: hyphenate “one-octet” as a compound modifier.
> 
> — Section 4 —
> 
>     The ERLD is advertised in a Node MSD sub-TLV [RFC8476] using the
>     ERLD-MSD type defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-mpls-elc].
> 
> Just checking: is the IS-IS draft the right reference here in this OSPF
> document?



> 
> There does seem to be so much common text between that document and this one
> that I really don’t understand why these (the IS-IS and OSPF signaling) were
> not put into one document, and this reference really drives that home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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To: Murray Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Murray,

On 06/05/2020 07:52, Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker wrote:
> Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> As with the IS-IS document, I assume the presence of six authors, above our
> usual limit of five, was approved by your AD.
> 
> I agree with Barry's point that this document and the IS-IS document could
> easily have been combined.  Even some of the syntactical things he corrected
> are present in both documents.
> 
> When would you ever not do what the two SHOULDs in Section 3 say?

advertising ELC property with prefix advertisement is optional. We can 
not mandate it. It would make all routers not advertising this data 
violating this spec.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network


Bruno -



Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person. =
 Ahhh...the good old days...

[Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.



First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a s=
mall number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.

The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands=
). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.



Take the following simple topology:



   |  | ... |            |

     +---+             +---+

     | C |             | E |

     +---+             +---+

       |                 | 1000

     +---+             +---+

     | B |-------------| D |

     +---+   1000      +---+

       |                 |

       |                 |

        \               /

         \            /

          \         /

           \      /

             +---+

             | A |

             +---+



There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southb=
ound of A (not shown).

Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.



C is a node with 1000 neighbors.

When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via=
 C.

All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.

Let's say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20=
 LSPs/seconds.

If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.

All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay=
 time).

D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.



[Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.



When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they =
will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.

But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP up=
dates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffi=
c.



[Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to =
sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not=
 including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.



Quoting you "when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding th=
e behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is=
 enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."



Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; a=
ll nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 5=
0 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.



Hence I'm restating my questions:



> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?





Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to c=
onverge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a go=
od amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.

[Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the netw=
ork, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across the path/=
network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates to LSDB up=
date ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, I'd suggest =
that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976

(*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you want=
. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. But a=
t some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are invol=
ved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)



--Bruno



One can always come up with examples - based on a specific topology and a s=
pecific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face =
of inconsistent flooding speed support.

But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.



    Les



> -----Original Message-----

> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM

> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org

> Subject: Flooding across a network

>

> Les,

>

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> [...]

> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?

>

> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenar=
io

> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

>

> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adja=
cent

> node j. Clearly Dij>0.

> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>

> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k =
are

> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

>

> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between

> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i;=
 and

> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

>

> It seems that the time needed:

> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)

> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in syn=
c with

> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

>

> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs

> the period of LSDB inconsistency?

> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this would

> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shor=
test

> path.

>

> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originat=
ed by

> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's =
start

> with the simple case.

>

> Thanks,

> --Bruno

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> >

> > Henk -

> >

> > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.

> > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to re=
ply to

> this one.

> > Top posting for better readability.

> >

> > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.

> > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of

> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

> >

> > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly

> different than that for which TCP is used.

> > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which =
Bruno

> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any

> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude

> faster than it commonly does today.

> > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and wil=
l not

> need "TCP".

> >

> > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

> >

> > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

> >

> > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address

> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which I

> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments =
where

> multiple address family support is needed

> >

> > I really don't want to do either of the above.

> >

> > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and

> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail wil=
l be

> required.

> > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK f=
aster -

> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.

> > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is

> expressed in ISO 10589:

> >

> > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic

>         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.

>         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

> >

> > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds

> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and

> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. These

> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationship

> between the two needs to remain the same.

> >

> > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will re=
sult in

> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this h=
as

> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementation

> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also=
 be

> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smar=
ter

> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

> >

> > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-

> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware

> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.

> > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still consider=
ing.

> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can

> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion

> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle

> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout t=
he

> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example

> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support fast=
er

> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster

> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

> More work needs to be done here...

> >

> > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think y=
ou

> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on t=
his

> topic,

> >

> > Thanx.

> >

>     > Les

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Henk Smit

> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM

> > > To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender

> isn't

> > > enough

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:

> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00

> > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS

> > > flooding.

> > >

> > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to

> > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TC=
P.

> > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.

> > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control

> > >

> > >

> > > What does TCP do:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.

> > >

> > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being

> > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size

> > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.

> > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links betw=
een

> > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an

> educated

> > > guess at what speed it can send.

> > >

> > >

> > > The part we seem to be missing:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at

> > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?

> > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate

> > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able

> > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.

> > >

> > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,

> > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is lo=
ok

> > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs c=
an

> > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not

> > > immediately

> > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the

> > > PSNP,

> > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a

> > > little

> > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.

> > >

> > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the

> > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This

> > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do

> > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information

> > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than wh=
at

> > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.

> > >

> > >

> > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5

> > > seconds.

> > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means

> > > that

> > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5

> > > seconds.

> > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and

> > > whenever

> > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about

> > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.

> > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes

> > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.

> > >

> > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the

> > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped

> > > LSPs.

> > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will

> > > probably

> > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might

> > > send

> > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or

> > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.

> > >

> > >

> > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a

> > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-

> control

> > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more

> > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do

> PSNPs

> > > under load.

> > >

> > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)

> > > PSNPs.

> > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).

> > >

> > >

> > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.

> > >

> > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:

> > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm

> > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs

> > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism

> > >

> > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the

> > > receiving

> > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on

> > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A recei=
ver

> > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bo=
und

> > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a

> > > flow-control

> > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.

> Maybe

> > > the

> > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in

> > > the

> > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.

> > >

> > >

> > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks

> > > (LANs).

> > >

> > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections

> > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP

> > > connections ?

> > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DI=
S ?

> > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickl=
y.

> > >

> > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.

> > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine

> whether

> > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most

> > > LSPs

> > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There

> > > are

> > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send

> > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to

> > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust the=
ir

> > > sending speed accordingly.

> > >

> > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.

> Because

> > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make

> > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not su=
re

> > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than

> > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.

> > >

> > >

> > > My conclusion:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more

> > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.

> > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's

> > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enoug=
h.

> > > But it's a start.

> > >

> > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

> > >

> > >

> > > henk.

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > Lsr mailing list

> > > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Lsr mailing list

> > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>

> __________________________________________________________

> __________________________________________________________

> _____

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<body lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"tab-interval:35.4=
pt">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D">Les,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
si-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-farea=
st-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-=
fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">
 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Seems like it was not too long ago that =
we were discussing this in person. &nbsp;<span class=3D"SpellE">Ahhh</span>=
...the good old days...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Indeed, may b=
e not to the point of concluding. Indeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">First, let's agree that the interesting =
case does not involve 1 or even a small number of LSPs. For those cases flo=
oding speed does not matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The interesting cases involve a large nu=
mber of LSPs (hundreds or thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoid=
ance techniques are not applicable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Take the following simple topology:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; | ... |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | C |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | E |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp=
;| 1000<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | B |-------------| D |<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43; &nbsp;&nbsp;1000&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; | A |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">There is a topology northbound of C and =
E (not shown) and a topology southbound of A (not shown).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D=
-E where cost is high.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">When all links are up, shortest path for=
 all northbound destinations is via C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All nodes in the network support fast fl=
ooding except for Node D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let&#8217;s say fast flooding is 500 LSP=
s/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If &nbsp;Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs =
to flood.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All nodes except for D can receive these=
 in 2 seconds (plus internode delay time).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Thanks for yo=
ur example. Agreed so far.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">When A and B and all southbound nodes re=
ceive/process the LSP updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound=
 destinations via D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">But for the better part of 50 seconds, N=
ode D has yet to receive all LSP updates and still believes that shortest p=
ath is via B-C. It will loop traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=
=3D"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-fon=
t-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"></span></i></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-=
family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F49=
7D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to sync LS=
DB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not includ=
ing FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Quoting you &#8220;wh=
en only some nodes in the network support faster flooding
 the behavior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faste=
r flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=
&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Taking your own examp=
les, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding;
 all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is=
 50 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hence I&#8217;m resta=
ting my questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; when only s=
ome nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the whole net=
work may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; because it prolo=
ngs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 1) Do you have d=
ata on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 2) If not, can y=
ou provide an example where increasing the flooding
 rate on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; one adjacency pr=
olongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network?<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Had all nodes used slow flooding, it sti=
ll would have taken 50 seconds to converge, but there would be significantl=
y less looping. There could be a good amount
 of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] You are using=
 an example where ordering FIB updates across the
 network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _<i>FIB</i>_ inconsistency acro=
ss the path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translate=
s to LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, =
I&#8217;d suggest that we focus on IGP
 flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[1]
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/rfc6976</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">(*) We can discuss lo=
op free IGP converge in a different thread if you
 want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than <span =
class=3D"SpellE">
oFIB</span>. But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multi=
ple LSPs are involved. (and I mean _<i>fast</i>_ not _<i>ordered</i>_)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-fami=
ly:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">One can always come up with examples &#8=
211; based on a specific topology and a specific failure - where things mig=
ht be better/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsistent
 flooding speed support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">But I hope this simple example illustrat=
es the pitfalls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; From: bruno.decraene@orange.com &lt=
;bruno.decraene@orange.com&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;gin=
sberg@cisco.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Subject: Flooding across a network<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Les,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;t=
ext-underline:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
 On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; [...]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the ne=
twork support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the whole network may not be &qu=
ot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; because it prolongs the period of L=
SDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an examp=
le where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period o=
f LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 3) In the meantime, let's try the t=
heoretical analysis on a simple scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; where a single LSP needs to be floo=
ded across the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - Let's call Dij the time needed to=
 flood the LSP from node i to the adjacent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - Let's call k the node originating=
 this LSP at t0=3D0s<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is inconsiste=
nt across the network as all nodes but k are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know=
 about the 'old' topology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Let's call&nbsp; SPT(k) the SPT roo=
ted on k, using Dij as the metric between<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call =
SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance betwee=
n k and i.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; It seems that the time needed:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP=
, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - for all nodes across the network =
to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding =
delay on one adjacency could prolongs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; It seems to me that it can only imp=
rove/decrease it. Otherwise, this would<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a =
link can increase the cost of the shortest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Note: I agree that there are other =
cases, such as&nbsp; multiple LSPs originated by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs or=
iginated by multiple nodes, but let's start<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; with the simple case.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; --Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;t=
ext-underline:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
 On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Henk -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thanx for your thoughtful post=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I have read your later posts o=
n this thread as well - but decided to reply to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; this one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Top posting for better readabi=
lity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; There is broad agreement that =
faster flooding is desirable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; There are now two proposals as=
 to how to address the issue - neither of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or e=
quivalent).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I have commented on why IS-IS =
flooding requirements are significantly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; different than that for which TCP i=
s used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I think it is also useful to n=
ote that even the simple test case which Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; reported on in last week's interim =
meeting demonstrated that without any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-I=
S was able to flood an order of magnitude<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; faster than it commonly does today.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; This gives me hope that we are=
 looking at the problem correctly and will not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; need &quot;TCP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Introducing a TCP based soluti=
on requires:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; a)A major change to the adjace=
ncy formation logic<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; b)Removal of the independence =
of the IS-IS protocol from the address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; families whose reachability adverti=
sements it supports - something which I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; think is a great strength of the pr=
otocol - particularly in environments where<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; multiple address family support is =
needed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I really don't want to do eith=
er of the above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Your comments regarding PSNP r=
esponse times are quite correct - and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss=
 this - though I agree more detail will be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; It is intuitive that if you wa=
nt to flood faster you also need to ACK faster -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; and probably even retransmit faster=
 when that is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; The basic relationship between=
 retransmit interval and PSNP interval is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &quot; partialSNPInterval - Th=
is is the amount of time between periodic<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.&qu=
ot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommende=
d values (2 seconds and 5 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; respectively) associated with a muc=
h slower flooding rate and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; implementations I am aware of use v=
alues in this order of magnitude. These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we ar=
e to flood faster, but the relationship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; between the two needs to remain the=
 same.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; It is also true - as you state=
 - that sending ACKs more quickly will result in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; additional PDUs which need to be re=
ceived/processed by IS-IS - and this has<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; some impact. But I think it is reas=
onable to expect that an implementation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; which can support sending and recei=
ving LSPs at a faster rate should also be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a fas=
ter rate. But we still need to be smarter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in ca=
ses where we have a burst.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; LANs are a more difficult prob=
lem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-lsr-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent=
 on this - but not because we aren't aware<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of this - just have focused on the =
P2P behavior first.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; What the best behavior on a LA=
N may be is something I am still considering.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed =
at which the slowest IS on the LAN can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; support may not be the best strateg=
y - as it also slows down the propagation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; rate for systems downstream from th=
e nodes on the LAN which can handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an=
 impact on flooding speed throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network in a way which may be out o=
f proportion. This is a smaller example<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the larger issue that when only =
some nodes in the network support faster<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole =
network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; flooding is enabled because it prol=
ongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; More work needs to be done here...<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; In summary, I don't expect to =
have to &quot;reinvent TCP&quot; - but I do think you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; have provided a useful perspective =
for us to consider as we progress on this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; topic,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thanx.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Les<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----=
-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;
 On Behalf Of Henk Smit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30,=
 2020 6:58 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; To:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [Lsr] Why only a=
 congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; isn't<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; enough<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello all,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van=
 de Velde and myself published this draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-t=
cp-00"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:=
none">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00=
</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; That started this discuss=
ion about flow/congestion control and ISIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; My thoughts were that onc=
e we start implementing new algorithms to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; optimize ISIS flooding sp=
eed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think most people here =
have a good general understanding of TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; But if not, this is a goo=
d overview how TCP does it:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://en.=
wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; What does TCP do:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP does 2 things: flow c=
ontrol and congestion control.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Flow control is: the r=
eceiver trying to prevent itself from being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; overloaded. The receiver =
indicates, through the receiver-window-size<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; in the TCP acks, how much=
 data it can or wants to receive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Congestion control is:=
 the sender trying to prevent the links between<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sender and receiver from =
being overloaded. The sender makes an<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; educated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; guess at what speed it ca=
n send.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The part we seem to be mi=
ssing:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the sender to make a =
guess at what speed it can send, it looks at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; how the transmission is b=
ehaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Do drop-percentage and RT=
T change ? Do acks come in at the same rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; as the sender sends segme=
nts ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to do this, the sender mu=
st know what to expect. How acks behave.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; If you want an ISIS sende=
r to make a guess at what speed it can send,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; without changing the prot=
ocol, the only thing the sender can do is look<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; at the PSNPs that come ba=
ck from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be predicted. Because=
 a good ISIS implementation does not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; immediately<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; send a PSNP when it recei=
ves a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; like it should jitter all=
 packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; little<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to see if it can combine =
multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; In TCP, if a single segme=
nt gets lost, each new segment will cause the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver to send an ack w=
ith the seqnr of the last received byte. This<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; is called &quot;duplicate=
 acks&quot;. This triggers the sender to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-retransmission. In I=
SIS, this can't be be done. The information<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender can get from loo=
king at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP can learn from incomi=
ng acks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem with sender-s=
ide congestion control:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; In ISIS, all we know is t=
hat the default retransmit-interval is 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; And I think most implemen=
tations use that as the default. This means<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the receiver of an LSP ha=
s one requirement: send a PSNP within 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the rest, implementat=
ions are free to send PSNPs however and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; whenever<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; they want. This means a s=
ender can not really make conclusions about<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding speed, dropped L=
SPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no ordering when=
 flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender-side algorithm f=
or ISIS a lot harder.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When you think about it, =
you realize that a sender should wait the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; full 5 seconds before it =
can make any real conclusions about dropped<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; If a sender looks at PSNP=
s to determine its flooding speed, it will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be able to react with=
out a delay of a few seconds. A sender might<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; send<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; hunderds or thousands of =
LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; partially be dropped, com=
plicating matters even further.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; A sender-sider algorithm =
should specify how to do PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; So imho a sender-side onl=
y algorithm can't work just like that in a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-vendor environment.=
 We must not only specify a congestion-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; control<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithm for the sender.=
 We must also specify for the receiver a more<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; specific algorithm how an=
d when to send PSNPs. At least how to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; PSNPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; under load.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that this might resu=
lt in the receiver sending more (and smaller)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; More packets might mean m=
ore congestion (inside routers).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Will receiver-side flow-c=
ontrol work ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't know if that's en=
ough. It will certainly help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think to tackle this pr=
oblem, we need 3 parts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) sender-side congestion=
-control algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) more detailed algorith=
m on receiver when and how to send PSNPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) receiver-side flow-con=
trol mechanism<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; As discussed at length, I=
 don't know if the ISIS process on the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiving<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; router can actually know =
if its running out of resources (buffers on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; interfaces, linecards, et=
c). That's implementation dependent. A receiver<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; can definitely advertise =
a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to use when doing congest=
ion-control. Just like TCP has both a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-control<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; window and a congestion-c=
ontrol window, and a sender uses both.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Maybe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver can even adverti=
se a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; future. An advertised upp=
er limit seems useful to me today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; What I didn't like about =
our own proposal (flooding over TCP):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem I saw with fl=
ooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding over a mult=
i-point network, setting up TCP connections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; introduces serious challe=
nges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; connections ?<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Full mesh ? Or do all ISe=
s on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no backup DIS in=
 ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; However, the other two pr=
oposals do not solve this problem either.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; How will a sender-side co=
ngestion-avoidence algorithm determine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; whether<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; there were drops ? There =
are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; that are broadcasted are =
received by all other ISes on the LAN. There<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; no acks. Only after the D=
IS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs to request retransm=
issions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; me for all ISes on a LAN =
to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sending speed accordingly=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding on a LAN, t=
he receiver-side algorithm seems best.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Because<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; all ISes can see what the=
 lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sure they send slow enoug=
h to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; this is a good solution, =
but is seems easier and more realistic than<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or=
 sender-side congestion-avoidance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; My conclusion:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sender-side congestion-co=
ntrol won't work without specifying in more<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; detail how and when to se=
nd PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Receiver-side flow-contro=
l will certainly help. I dont' know if it's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; good enough. I don't know=
 if advertising a static value is good enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; But it's a start.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I still think we'll end u=
p re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; _________________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; ______________________________=
_________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; ___________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; ___________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; _____<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Ce message et ses pieces jointes pe=
uvent contenir des informations<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; confidentielles ou privilegiees et =
ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; pas etre diffuses, exploites ou cop=
ies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding across a network
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Bruno -

I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB update tim=
e nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.

Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from the tri=
gger event.

T+ 2 seconds:
-----------------
B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound d=
estinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
Let's assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.

D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds tha=
t all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes to=
 the forwarding plane.

T+7 seconds
-----------------
B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is bein=
g forwarded via D.

D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding p=
lane for Northbound destinations still point to B.

We have a loop.

T + 30 seconds
--------------------
D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its for=
warding plane.
Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.

T+ 50 seconds
-------------------
D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates.
It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations v=
ia E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
Let's assume this will take 5 seconds.

T + 55 seconds
--------------------
D has completed forwarding plane updates - no more looping.

That is all I am trying to illustrate.

If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop avoidanc=
e could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example for simplici=
ty) - it is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node fail=
ures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.
The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency wh=
ich results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude faster f=
looding than other nodes - which is what you asked me to clarify.

   Les



From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network

Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network


Bruno -



Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person. =
 Ahhh...the good old days...

[Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.



First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a s=
mall number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.

The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands=
). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.



Take the following simple topology:



   |  | ... |            |

     +---+             +---+

     | C |             | E |

     +---+             +---+

       |                 | 1000

     +---+             +---+

     | B |-------------| D |

     +---+   1000      +---+

       |                 |

       |                 |

        \               /

         \            /

          \         /

           \      /

             +---+

             | A |

             +---+



There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southb=
ound of A (not shown).

Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.



C is a node with 1000 neighbors.

When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via=
 C.

All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.

Let's say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20=
 LSPs/seconds.

If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.

All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay=
 time).

D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.



[Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.



When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they =
will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.

But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP up=
dates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffi=
c.



[Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to =
sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not=
 including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.



Quoting you "when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding th=
e behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is=
 enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."



Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; a=
ll nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 5=
0 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.



Hence I'm restating my questions:



> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavio=
r

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?





Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to c=
onverge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a go=
od amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.

[Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the netw=
ork, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across the path/=
network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates to LSDB up=
date ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, I'd suggest =
that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976

(*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you want=
. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. But a=
t some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are invol=
ved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)



--Bruno



One can always come up with examples - based on a specific topology and a s=
pecific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face =
of inconsistent flooding speed support.

But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.



    Les



> -----Original Message-----

> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com> <bruno.=
decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM

> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> Subject: Flooding across a network

>

> Les,

>

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> [...]

> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavio=
r

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?

>

> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenar=
io

> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

>

> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adja=
cent

> node j. Clearly Dij>0.

> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>

> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k =
are

> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

>

> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between

> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i;=
 and

> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

>

> It seems that the time needed:

> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)

> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in syn=
c with

> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

>

> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs

> the period of LSDB inconsistency?

> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this woul=
d

> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shor=
test

> path.

>

> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originat=
ed by

> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's =
start

> with the simple case.

>

> Thanks,

> --Bruno

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> >

> > Henk -

> >

> > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.

> > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to re=
ply to

> this one.

> > Top posting for better readability.

> >

> > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.

> > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of

> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

> >

> > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly

> different than that for which TCP is used.

> > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which =
Bruno

> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any

> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude

> faster than it commonly does today.

> > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and wil=
l not

> need "TCP".

> >

> > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

> >

> > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

> >

> > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address

> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which =
I

> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments =
where

> multiple address family support is needed

> >

> > I really don't want to do either of the above.

> >

> > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and

> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail wil=
l be

> required.

> > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK f=
aster -

> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.

> > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is

> expressed in ISO 10589:

> >

> > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic

>         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.

>         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

> >

> > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds

> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and

> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. Thes=
e

> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationshi=
p

> between the two needs to remain the same.

> >

> > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will re=
sult in

> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this h=
as

> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementatio=
n

> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also=
 be

> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smar=
ter

> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

> >

> > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-

> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware

> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.

> > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still consider=
ing.

> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can

> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion

> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle

> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout t=
he

> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller exampl=
e

> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support fast=
er

> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faste=
r

> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

> More work needs to be done here...

> >

> > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think y=
ou

> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on t=
his

> topic,

> >

> > Thanx.

> >

>     > Les

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Henk Smit

> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM

> > > To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sende=
r

> isn't

> > > enough

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:

> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00

> > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS

> > > flooding.

> > >

> > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to

> > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TC=
P.

> > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.

> > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control

> > >

> > >

> > > What does TCP do:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.

> > >

> > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being

> > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size

> > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.

> > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links betw=
een

> > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an

> educated

> > > guess at what speed it can send.

> > >

> > >

> > > The part we seem to be missing:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at

> > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?

> > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate

> > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able

> > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.

> > >

> > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,

> > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is lo=
ok

> > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs c=
an

> > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not

> > > immediately

> > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the

> > > PSNP,

> > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a

> > > little

> > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.

> > >

> > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause th=
e

> > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. Thi=
s

> > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do

> > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information

> > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than wh=
at

> > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.

> > >

> > >

> > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5

> > > seconds.

> > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means

> > > that

> > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5

> > > seconds.

> > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and

> > > whenever

> > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about

> > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.

> > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes

> > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.

> > >

> > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the

> > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped

> > > LSPs.

> > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will

> > > probably

> > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might

> > > send

> > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or

> > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.

> > >

> > >

> > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a

> > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-

> control

> > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a mor=
e

> > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do

> PSNPs

> > > under load.

> > >

> > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller=
)

> > > PSNPs.

> > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).

> > >

> > >

> > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.

> > >

> > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:

> > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm

> > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs

> > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism

> > >

> > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the

> > > receiving

> > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on

> > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A recei=
ver

> > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bo=
und

> > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a

> > > flow-control

> > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.

> Maybe

> > > the

> > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in

> > > the

> > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.

> > >

> > >

> > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point network=
s

> > > (LANs).

> > >

> > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections

> > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP

> > > connections ?

> > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DI=
S ?

> > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickl=
y.

> > >

> > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.

> > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine

> whether

> > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most

> > > LSPs

> > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There

> > > are

> > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can sen=
d

> > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to

> > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust the=
ir

> > > sending speed accordingly.

> > >

> > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.

> Because

> > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And mak=
e

> > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not su=
re

> > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than

> > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.

> > >

> > >

> > > My conclusion:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more

> > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.

> > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's

> > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enoug=
h.

> > > But it's a start.

> > >

> > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

> > >

> > >

> > > henk.

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > Lsr mailing list

> > > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Lsr mailing list

> > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>

> __________________________________________________________

> __________________________________________________________

> _____

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bruno &#8211;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The example is straightforward and does not need to =
consider FIB update time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different no=
des.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various t=
ime points from the trigger event.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T&#43; 2 seconds:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-----------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF a=
nd for all Northbound destinations previously reachable via C it installs p=
aths via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let&#8217;s assume it take 5 seconds to update the f=
orwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It trigge=
rs an SPF and finds that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C.=
 It makes no changes to the forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T&#43;7 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-----------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbou=
nd destinations is being forwarded via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entr=
ies in its forwarding plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have a loop.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T &#43; 30 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Stil=
l no changes to its forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T&#43; 50 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to No=
rthbound destinations via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Let&#8217;s assume this will take 5 seconds.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">T &#43; 55 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">--------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">D has completed forwarding plane updates &#8211; no =
more looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That is all I am trying to illustrate.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you want to start arguing that node protecting LF=
As &#43; microloop avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly &nbsp;took those=
 out of the example for simplicity) &#8211; it is easy enough to change the=
 example to include multiple node failures or a node
 failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The point here is to look at the impact of long-live=
d LSDB inconsistency which results when some nodes support flooding an orde=
r of magnitude faster flooding than other nodes &#8211; which is what you a=
sked me to clarify.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> bruno.decraene@orange.com &lt;bruno.dec=
raene@orange.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Les,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"FR" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif"> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@ci=
sco.com">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf=
.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Bruno -<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Seems like it was no=
t too long ago that we were discussing this in person. &nbsp;Ahhh...the goo=
d old days...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] Indeed, may=
 be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">First, let's agree t=
hat the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a small number of LSPs.=
 For those cases flooding speed does not matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">The interesting case=
s involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands). And in such cases=
 LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Take the following s=
imple topology:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; | =
... |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o=
:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; | C |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; | E |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;| 1000<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; | B |-------------| D |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43; &nbsp;&nbsp;1000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;---&#43=
;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | A |<o:p></o:p></span></=
b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">There is a topology =
northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southbound of A (not shown=
).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Cost on all links is=
 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">C is a node with 100=
0 neighbors.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">When all links are u=
p, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via C.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">All nodes in the net=
work support fast flooding except for Node D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Let&#8217;s say fast=
 flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">If &nbsp;Node C fail=
s we have 1000 LSPs to flood.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">All nodes except for=
 D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay time).<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D can receive LSPs i=
n 50 seconds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] Thanks for =
your example. Agreed so far.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">When A and B and all=
 southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they will start sending t=
raffic to Northbound destinations via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">But for the better p=
art of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP updates and still beli=
eves that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] May I remin=
d you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to sync LSDB (LSP data=
base). That is already a big enough subject. It does not including FIB (upd=
ates), nor IP forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Quoting you &#8220;=
when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior of=
 the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is en=
abled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Taking your own exa=
mples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; all nodes but D supp=
ort fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 50 seconds. Hence th=
is example does not illustrate your
 statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hence I&#8217;m res=
tating my questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; &gt; when only=
 some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; of the whole n=
etwork may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; because it pro=
longs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; 1) Do you have=
 data on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; 2) If not, can=
 you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; one adjacency =
prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt; network?<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Had all nodes used s=
low flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to converge, but there w=
ould be significantly less looping. There could be a good amount of blackho=
ling, but this is preferable to looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] You are usi=
ng an example where ordering FIB updates across the network, e.g. as per [1=
], allows to reduce _<i>FIB</i>_ inconsistency across the path/network. And=
 you seem to conclude from this that
 this translates to LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. I=
n this thread, I&#8217;d suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB syn=
c only. (*)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[1] <a href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">(*) We can discuss =
loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you want. IMO, the use of s=
egment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. But at some point, it st=
ill relies on fast flooding when multiple
 LSPs are involved. (and I mean _<i>fast</i>_ not _<i>ordered</i>_) <o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">--Bruno<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">One can always come =
up with examples &#8211; based on a specific topology and a specific failur=
e - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsisten=
t flooding speed support.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">But I hope this simp=
le example illustrates the pitfalls.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; L=
es<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; -----Original M=
essage-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; From: <a href=
=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, =
May 05, 2020 8:28 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; To: Les Ginsber=
g (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</=
a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Subject: Floodi=
ng across a network<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Les,<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr =
[<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Sent: Mond=
ay, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; [...]<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; when only =
some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; of the whole ne=
twork may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; because it prol=
ongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; 1) Do you have =
data on this?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; 2) If not, can =
you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; one adjacency p=
rolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; network?<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; 3) In the meant=
ime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenario<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; where a single =
LSP needs to be flooded across the network.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; - Let's call Di=
j the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adjacent<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; node j. Clearly=
 Dij&gt;0.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; - Let's call k =
the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;From t0, th=
e LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k are<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; missing the LSP=
 and hence only know about the 'old' topology.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Let's call&nbsp=
; SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; adjacent nodes =
i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; D(k,i) the shor=
test distance between k and i.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; It seems that t=
he time needed:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; - for node j to=
 learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; - for all nodes=
 across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; k, is Max[for a=
ll j] D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Then how can re=
ducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; the period of L=
SDB inconsistency?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; It seems to me =
that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this would<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; mean that decre=
asing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shortest<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; path.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Note: I agree t=
hat there are other cases, such as&nbsp; multiple LSPs originated by<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; the same node, =
and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's start<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; with the simple=
 case.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; --Bruno<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; -----Origi=
nal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr =
[<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Sent: Mond=
ay, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Henk -<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Thanx for =
your thoughtful posts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; I have rea=
d your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to reply to<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; this one.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Top postin=
g for better readability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; There is b=
road agreement that faster flooding is desirable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; There are =
now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; which is propos=
ing to use TCP (or equivalent).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; I have com=
mented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; different than =
that for which TCP is used.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; I think it=
 is also useful to note that even the simple test case which Bruno<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; reported on in =
last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; changes to the =
protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnitude<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; faster than it =
commonly does today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; This gives=
 me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and will not<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; need &quot;TCP&=
quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Introducin=
g a TCP based solution requires:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; a)A major =
change to the adjacency formation logic<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; b)Removal =
of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; families whose =
reachability advertisements it supports - something which I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; think is a grea=
t strength of the protocol - particularly in environments where<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; multiple addres=
s family support is needed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; I really d=
on't want to do either of the above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Your comme=
nts regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; both of the dra=
ft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail will be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; required.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; It is intu=
itive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK faster -<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; and probably ev=
en retransmit faster when that is needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; The basic =
relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; expressed in IS=
O 10589:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &quot; par=
tialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; action for transmission of Partial Se=
quence Number PDUs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTrans=
mission-Interval.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Of course =
ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; respectively) a=
ssociated with a much slower flooding rate and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; implementations=
 I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. These<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; numbers need to=
 be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationship<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; between the two=
 needs to remain the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; It is also=
 true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will result in<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; additional PDUs=
 which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this has<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; some impact. Bu=
t I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; which can suppo=
rt sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also be<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; able to send/re=
ceive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smarter<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; than sending on=
e PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; LANs are a=
 more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-lsr-<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; isis-flooding-s=
cale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't aware<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; of this - just =
have focused on the P2P behavior first.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; What the b=
est behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still considering.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Slowing floodin=
g down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; support may not=
 be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagation<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; rate for system=
s downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; faster flooding=
 - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; network in a wa=
y which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; of the larger i=
ssue that when only some nodes in the network support faster<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; flooding the be=
havior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; flooding is ena=
bled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; More work needs=
 to be done here...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; In summary=
, I don't expect to have to &quot;reinvent TCP&quot; - but I do think you<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; have provided a=
 useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on this<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; topic,<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Thanx.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&gt; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----=
Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; From:=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf O=
f Henk Smit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent:=
 Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <=
a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subje=
ct: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; isn't<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; enoug=
h<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello=
 all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Two y=
ears ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00=
">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; That =
started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flood=
ing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; My th=
oughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; optim=
ize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I thi=
nk most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; But i=
f not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://en.wikipedia.=
org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; What =
does TCP do:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP d=
oes 2 things: flow control and congestion control.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Fl=
ow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; overl=
oaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; in th=
e TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Co=
ngestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links between<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sende=
r and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; educated<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; guess=
 at what speed it can send.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
art we seem to be missing:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; For t=
he sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; how t=
he transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Do dr=
op-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; as th=
e sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to do=
 this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; If yo=
u want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; witho=
ut changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is look<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; at th=
e PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; not b=
e predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; immed=
iately<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; send =
a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; like =
it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; littl=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to se=
e if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; In TC=
P, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; is ca=
lled &quot;duplicate acks&quot;. This triggers the sender to do<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-=
retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sen=
der can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP c=
an learn from incoming acks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
roblem with sender-side congestion control:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; In IS=
IS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; secon=
ds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; And I=
 think most implementations use that as the default. This means<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; that<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the r=
eceiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; secon=
ds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; For t=
he rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; whene=
ver<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; they =
want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flood=
ing speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; There=
 is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sen=
der-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; full =
5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; If a =
sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; proba=
bly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; not b=
e able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; send<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; hunde=
rds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; parti=
ally be dropped, complicating matters even further.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; A sen=
der-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; So im=
ho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi=
-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; control<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; algor=
ithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; speci=
fic algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; PSNPs<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; under=
 load.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Note =
that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; More =
packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Will =
receiver-side flow-control work ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I don=
't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I thi=
nk to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) se=
nder-side congestion-control algorithm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) mo=
re detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) re=
ceiver-side flow-control mechanism<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; As di=
scussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ving<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; route=
r can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; inter=
faces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A receiver<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; can d=
efinitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to us=
e when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-=
control<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; windo=
w and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Maybe<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; futur=
e. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; What =
I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
roblem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs=
).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; intro=
duces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; conne=
ctions ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Full =
mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; There=
 is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Howev=
er, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; How w=
ill a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; whether<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; there=
 were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; that =
are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; are<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; no ac=
ks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs=
 to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; me fo=
r all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sendi=
ng speed accordingly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Because<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; all I=
Ses can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sure =
they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; this =
is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-=
flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; My co=
nclusion:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sende=
r-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; detai=
l how and when to send PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Recei=
ver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; good =
enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enough.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; But i=
t's a start.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I sti=
ll think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; _____=
__________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr m=
ailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; __________=
_____________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; Lsr mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D=
"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; _______________=
___________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; _______________=
___________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; _____<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Ce message et s=
es pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; confidentielles=
 ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; pas etre diffus=
es, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; message par err=
eur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; a l'expediteur =
et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; electroniques e=
tant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; falsifie. Merci=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; This message an=
d its attachments may contain confidential or privileged<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; information tha=
t may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; they should not=
 be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; If you have rec=
eived this email in error, please notify the sender and delete<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; this message an=
d its attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; As emails may b=
e altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; modified, chang=
ed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&gt; Thank you.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MW3PR11MB46199CC33B10BC9D3D622D2AC1A40MW3PR11MB4619namp_--


From nobody Wed May  6 07:28:13 2020
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From: Elwyn Davies via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
Review result: Ready with Nits

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
Review Date: 2020-05-06
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
IESG Telechat date: 2020-05-21

Summary:
Ready with nits.  Aside:  I have to say that the convolutions and
cross-referencing of doing the OSPF and IS-IS  extensions plus BGP-LS added to
the cross-linking with MPLS is leading to mind-blowing complexity.  Sooner or
later something is going to blow up here!

Major issues:
None

Minor issues:
None

Nits/editorial comments:

Abstract and title :  The application to BGP-LS (s5) is not mentioned in the
abstract or the title.  Also the first use of BGP-LS needs to be expanded.

Abstract: s/tunnel/LSP/

s1: Suggest s/SR-MPLS/Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane/

s1: Query:  As a non-expert in this area, I was wondering if the signalling
capability is or will be implemented in IS-IS?  A brief comment on the status
wrt IS-IS would be helpful.  [It turns out that you already reference the
document that implements this later in this draft.]

s1, last sentence: s/it's/it is/

s3: It would be a good idea to expand 'prefix' to 'address prefix
advertisement' on its first occurrence here.  Thereafter 'prefix' is fine by me.

s3, para 3: Why would a router not advertise the ELC with all prefixes?  Can
you say why this ought not to be a MUST.

s4, para 3: In that case, what does the absence signify?  Should we care?

s4, para 4:
This needs a correction and a reference to where the Link MSD Sub-TLV is
defined.  As a matter of interest, is there any reason why this should be sent
in an OSPF context?  If not why not just prohibit sending it? If it is received
should it provoke an error rather than being ignored? OLD: When the ERLD
MSD-Type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV, it MUST be
ignored. NEW:
 When the ERLD-MSD type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV
 [RFC8476], it MUST be ignored.
ENDS

s5:  This section needs to be rewritten to be 'future proof' rather than
referring to the temporary allocations.  A note about the temporary allocations
can be added with a RFC Editor note requesting its removal on final publication.




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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding across a network
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:33:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network

Bruno -

I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB update tim=
e nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
[Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB and IP =
packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
I'd like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.

Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from the tri=
gger event.

T+ 2 seconds:
-----------------
B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound d=
estinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
Let's assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.

D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds tha=
t all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes to=
 the forwarding plane.

T+7 seconds
-----------------
B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is bein=
g forwarded via D.

D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding p=
lane for Northbound destinations still point to B.

We have a loop.

T + 30 seconds
--------------------
D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its for=
warding plane.
Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.

T+ 50 seconds
-------------------
D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates.
It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations v=
ia E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
Let's assume this will take 5 seconds.

T + 55 seconds
--------------------
D has completed forwarding plane updates - no more looping.

That is all I am trying to illustrate.

If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop avoidanc=
e could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example for simplici=
ty) - it is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node fail=
ures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.
[Bruno] I'm not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops avoid=
ance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so including multiple=
 node failures.

But again, let's stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the o=
ne speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).

The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency wh=
ich results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude faster f=
looding than other nodes - which is what you asked me to clarify.
[Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster flooding c=
ould prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

Again, with you own words: "when only some nodes in the network support fas=
ter flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when fas=
ter flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y."
And with less words: "when only some nodes in the network support faster fl=
ooding [...]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."

--Bruno

   Les



From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network

Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network


Bruno -



Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person. =
 Ahhh...the good old days...

[Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.



First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a s=
mall number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.

The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands=
). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.



Take the following simple topology:



   |  | ... |            |

     +---+             +---+

     | C |             | E |

     +---+             +---+

       |                 | 1000

     +---+             +---+

     | B |-------------| D |

     +---+   1000      +---+

       |                 |

       |                 |

        \               /

         \            /

          \         /

           \      /

             +---+

             | A |

             +---+



There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southb=
ound of A (not shown).

Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.



C is a node with 1000 neighbors.

When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via=
 C.

All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.

Let's say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20=
 LSPs/seconds.

If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.

All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay=
 time).

D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.



[Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.



When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they =
will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.

But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP up=
dates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffi=
c.



[Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to =
sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not=
 including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.



Quoting you "when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding th=
e behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is=
 enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."



Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; a=
ll nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 5=
0 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.



Hence I'm restating my questions:



> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?





Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to c=
onverge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a go=
od amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.

[Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the netw=
ork, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across the path/=
network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates to LSDB up=
date ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, I'd suggest =
that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976

(*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you want=
. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. But a=
t some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are invol=
ved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)



--Bruno



One can always come up with examples - based on a specific topology and a s=
pecific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face =
of inconsistent flooding speed support.

But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.



    Les



> -----Original Message-----

> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com> <bruno.=
decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM

> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> Subject: Flooding across a network

>

> Les,

>

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> [...]

> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?

>

> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenar=
io

> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

>

> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adja=
cent

> node j. Clearly Dij>0.

> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>

> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k =
are

> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

>

> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between

> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i;=
 and

> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

>

> It seems that the time needed:

> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)

> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in syn=
c with

> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

>

> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs

> the period of LSDB inconsistency?

> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this would

> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shor=
test

> path.

>

> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originat=
ed by

> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's =
start

> with the simple case.

>

> Thanks,

> --Bruno

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> >

> > Henk -

> >

> > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.

> > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to re=
ply to

> this one.

> > Top posting for better readability.

> >

> > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.

> > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of

> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

> >

> > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly

> different than that for which TCP is used.

> > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which =
Bruno

> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any

> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude

> faster than it commonly does today.

> > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and wil=
l not

> need "TCP".

> >

> > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

> >

> > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

> >

> > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address

> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which I

> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments =
where

> multiple address family support is needed

> >

> > I really don't want to do either of the above.

> >

> > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and

> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail wil=
l be

> required.

> > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK f=
aster -

> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.

> > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is

> expressed in ISO 10589:

> >

> > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic

>         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.

>         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

> >

> > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds

> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and

> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. These

> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationship

> between the two needs to remain the same.

> >

> > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will re=
sult in

> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this h=
as

> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementation

> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also=
 be

> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smar=
ter

> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

> >

> > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-

> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware

> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.

> > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still consider=
ing.

> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can

> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion

> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle

> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout t=
he

> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example

> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support fast=
er

> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster

> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

> More work needs to be done here...

> >

> > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think y=
ou

> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on t=
his

> topic,

> >

> > Thanx.

> >

>     > Les

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Henk Smit

> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM

> > > To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender

> isn't

> > > enough

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:

> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00

> > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS

> > > flooding.

> > >

> > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to

> > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TC=
P.

> > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.

> > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control

> > >

> > >

> > > What does TCP do:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.

> > >

> > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being

> > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size

> > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.

> > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links betw=
een

> > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an

> educated

> > > guess at what speed it can send.

> > >

> > >

> > > The part we seem to be missing:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at

> > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?

> > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate

> > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able

> > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.

> > >

> > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,

> > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is lo=
ok

> > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs c=
an

> > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not

> > > immediately

> > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the

> > > PSNP,

> > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a

> > > little

> > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.

> > >

> > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the

> > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This

> > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do

> > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information

> > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than wh=
at

> > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.

> > >

> > >

> > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5

> > > seconds.

> > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means

> > > that

> > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5

> > > seconds.

> > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and

> > > whenever

> > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about

> > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.

> > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes

> > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.

> > >

> > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the

> > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped

> > > LSPs.

> > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will

> > > probably

> > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might

> > > send

> > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or

> > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.

> > >

> > >

> > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a

> > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-

> control

> > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more

> > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do

> PSNPs

> > > under load.

> > >

> > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)

> > > PSNPs.

> > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).

> > >

> > >

> > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.

> > >

> > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:

> > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm

> > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs

> > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism

> > >

> > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the

> > > receiving

> > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on

> > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A recei=
ver

> > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bo=
und

> > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a

> > > flow-control

> > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.

> Maybe

> > > the

> > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in

> > > the

> > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.

> > >

> > >

> > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks

> > > (LANs).

> > >

> > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections

> > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP

> > > connections ?

> > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DI=
S ?

> > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickl=
y.

> > >

> > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.

> > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine

> whether

> > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most

> > > LSPs

> > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There

> > > are

> > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send

> > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to

> > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust the=
ir

> > > sending speed accordingly.

> > >

> > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.

> Because

> > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make

> > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not su=
re

> > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than

> > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.

> > >

> > >

> > > My conclusion:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more

> > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.

> > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's

> > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enoug=
h.

> > > But it's a start.

> > >

> > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

> > >

> > >

> > > henk.

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > Lsr mailing list

> > > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Lsr mailing list

> > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>

> __________________________________________________________

> __________________________________________________________

> _____

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-han=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-farea=
st-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-=
fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">
 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno &#8211;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I am somewhat at a loss to understand your =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The example is straightforward and does not=
 need to consider FIB update time nor the ordering of prefix updates on dif=
ferent nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] The example is s=
traightforward but you are referring to FIB and
 IP packets forwarding as per those FIBs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">I&#8217;d like we focus =
on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Consider the state of Node B and Node D at =
various time points from the trigger event.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">T&#43; 2 seconds:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers=
 an SPF and for all Northbound destinations previously reachable via C it i=
nstalls paths via D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let&#8217;s assume it take 5 seconds to upd=
ate the forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. =
It triggers an SPF and finds that all Northbound destinations are reachable=
 via B-C. It makes no changes to the forwarding
 plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">T&#43;7 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all=
 Northbound destinations is being forwarded via D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP upda=
tes. Entries in its forwarding plane for Northbound destinations still poin=
t to B.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">We have a loop.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">T &#43; 30 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP upda=
tes. Still no changes to its forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Traffic to Northbound destinations is still=
 looping.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">T&#43; 50 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">-------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">It triggers (another) SPF and calculates pa=
ths to Northbound destinations via E. It begins to update its forwarding pl=
ane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let&#8217;s assume this will take 5 seconds=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">T &#43; 55 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D has completed forwarding plane updates &#=
8211; no more looping.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">That is all I am trying to illustrate.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If you want to start arguing that node prot=
ecting LFAs &#43; microloop avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly &nbsp;t=
ook those out of the example for simplicity) &#8211; it
 is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node failures or =
a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] I&#8217;m not ta=
lking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to
<span class=3D"SpellE">microloops</span> avoidance, some algorithms can han=
dle any graph transition so including multiple node failures.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">But again, let&#8217;s s=
tick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the
 one speaking about <span class=3D"SpellE">microloops</span> in the forward=
ing plane).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:=
Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The point here is to look at the impact of =
long-lived LSDB inconsistency which results when some nodes support floodin=
g an order of magnitude faster flooding
 than other nodes &#8211; which is what you asked me to clarify.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><i style=3D=
"mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-f=
amily:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"></span></i></b><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-fam=
ily:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;=
mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno]
 No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster flooding could </=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">p=
rolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi=
-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi=
-language:EN-US">Again, with you own words: &#8220;when only some nodes in =
the network support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may n=
ot be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled
 because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi=
-language:EN-US">And with less words: &#8220;when only some nodes in the ne=
twork support faster flooding [&#8230;]
<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp;</span>it prolongs the period of LSD=
B inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi=
-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi=
-language:EN-US">--Bruno</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ascii-font=
-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"> bruno.decraene@orange.com &lt;bruno.decraen=
e@orange.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color:#1=
F497D">Les,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color:#1=
F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;"> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@ci=
sco.com">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf=
.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Bruno -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Seems like it was not too long ago that =
we were discussing this in person. &nbsp;Ahhh...the good old days...<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Indeed, may be not=
 to the point of concluding. Indeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">First, let's agree that the interesting =
case does not involve 1 or even a small number of LSPs. For those cases flo=
oding speed does not matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">The interesting cases involve a large nu=
mber of LSPs (hundreds or thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoid=
ance techniques are not applicable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Take the following simple topology:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; | ... |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | C |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | E |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp=
;| 1000<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p=
></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | B |-------------| D |<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43; &nbsp;&nbsp;1000&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; | A |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;mso-ansi-=
language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">There is a topology northbound of C and =
E (not shown) and a topology southbound of A (not shown).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D=
-E where cost is high.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">When all links are up, shortest path for=
 all northbound destinations is via C.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All nodes in the network support fast fl=
ooding except for Node D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Let&#8217;s say fast flooding is 500 LSP=
s/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">If &nbsp;Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs =
to flood.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">All nodes except for D can receive these=
 in 2 seconds (plus internode delay time).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] Thanks for your ex=
ample. Agreed so far.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">When A and B and all southbound nodes re=
ceive/process the LSP updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound=
 destinations via D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">But for the better part of 50 seconds, N=
ode D has yet to receive all LSP updates and still believes that shortest p=
ath is via B-C. It will loop traffic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] May I remind you t=
hat we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to sync LSDB (LSP database). =
That is already a big enough subject. It
 does not including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Quoting you &#8220;when on=
ly some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior of the wh=
ole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding
 is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Taking your own examples, =
in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; all nodes but D support fas=
t flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency
 is 50 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hence I&#8217;m restating =
my questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; when only some n=
odes in the network support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the whole network =
may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; because it prolongs t=
he period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 1) Do you have data o=
n this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 2) If not, can you pr=
ovide an example where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; one adjacency prolong=
s the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network?<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Had all nodes used slow flooding, it sti=
ll would have taken 50 seconds to converge, but there would be significantl=
y less looping. There could be a good amount
 of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[Bruno] You are using an e=
xample where ordering FIB updates across the network, e.g. as per [1], allo=
ws to reduce _<i>FIB</i>_ inconsistency
 across the path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this tran=
slates to LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thr=
ead, I&#8217;d suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*=
)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">[1]
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/rfc6976</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">(*) We can discuss loop fr=
ee IGP converge in a different thread if you want. IMO, the use of segment =
routing/source routing is better than oFIB.
 But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are=
 involved. (and I mean _<i>fast</i>_ not _<i>ordered</i>_)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">One can always come up with examples &#8=
211; based on a specific topology and a specific failure - where things mig=
ht be better/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsistent
 flooding speed support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">But I hope this simple example illustrat=
es the pitfalls.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; From:
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com<=
/a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Subject: Flooding across a network<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Les,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;t=
ext-underline:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
 On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; [...]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the ne=
twork support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the whole network may not be &qu=
ot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; because it prolongs the period of L=
SDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an examp=
le where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period o=
f LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; 3) In the meantime, let's try the t=
heoretical analysis on a simple scenario<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; where a single LSP needs to be floo=
ded across the network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - Let's call Dij the time needed to=
 flood the LSP from node i to the adjacent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - Let's call k the node originating=
 this LSP at t0=3D0s<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is inconsiste=
nt across the network as all nodes but k are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know=
 about the 'old' topology.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Let's call&nbsp; SPT(k) the SPT roo=
ted on k, using Dij as the metric between<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call =
SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance betwee=
n k and i.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; It seems that the time needed:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP=
, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; - for all nodes across the network =
to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding =
delay on one adjacency could prolongs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; It seems to me that it can only imp=
rove/decrease it. Otherwise, this would<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a =
link can increase the cost of the shortest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Note: I agree that there are other =
cases, such as&nbsp; multiple LSPs originated by<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs or=
iginated by multiple nodes, but let's start<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; with the simple case.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; --Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;t=
ext-underline:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]
 On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39=
 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Henk -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thanx for your thoughtful post=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I have read your later posts o=
n this thread as well - but decided to reply to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; this one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Top posting for better readabi=
lity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; There is broad agreement that =
faster flooding is desirable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; There are now two proposals as=
 to how to address the issue - neither of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or e=
quivalent).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I have commented on why IS-IS =
flooding requirements are significantly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; different than that for which TCP i=
s used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I think it is also useful to n=
ote that even the simple test case which Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; reported on in last week's interim =
meeting demonstrated that without any<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-I=
S was able to flood an order of magnitude<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; faster than it commonly does today.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; This gives me hope that we are=
 looking at the problem correctly and will not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; need &quot;TCP&quot;.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Introducing a TCP based soluti=
on requires:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; a)A major change to the adjace=
ncy formation logic<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; b)Removal of the independence =
of the IS-IS protocol from the address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; families whose reachability adverti=
sements it supports - something which I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; think is a great strength of the pr=
otocol - particularly in environments where<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; multiple address family support is =
needed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; I really don't want to do eith=
er of the above.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Your comments regarding PSNP r=
esponse times are quite correct - and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss=
 this - though I agree more detail will be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; required.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; It is intuitive that if you wa=
nt to flood faster you also need to ACK faster -<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; and probably even retransmit faster=
 when that is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; The basic relationship between=
 retransmit interval and PSNP interval is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &quot; partialSNPInterval - Th=
is is the amount of time between periodic<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.&qu=
ot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommende=
d values (2 seconds and 5 seconds<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; respectively) associated with a muc=
h slower flooding rate and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; implementations I am aware of use v=
alues in this order of magnitude. These<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we ar=
e to flood faster, but the relationship<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; between the two needs to remain the=
 same.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; It is also true - as you state=
 - that sending ACKs more quickly will result in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; additional PDUs which need to be re=
ceived/processed by IS-IS - and this has<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; some impact. But I think it is reas=
onable to expect that an implementation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; which can support sending and recei=
ving LSPs at a faster rate should also be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a fas=
ter rate. But we still need to be smarter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in ca=
ses where we have a burst.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; LANs are a more difficult prob=
lem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-lsr-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent=
 on this - but not because we aren't aware<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of this - just have focused on the =
P2P behavior first.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; What the best behavior on a LA=
N may be is something I am still considering.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed =
at which the slowest IS on the LAN can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; support may not be the best strateg=
y - as it also slows down the propagation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; rate for systems downstream from th=
e nodes on the LAN which can handle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an=
 impact on flooding speed throughout the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; network in a way which may be out o=
f proportion. This is a smaller example<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; of the larger issue that when only =
some nodes in the network support faster<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole =
network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; flooding is enabled because it prol=
ongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; More work needs to be done here...<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; In summary, I don't expect to =
have to &quot;reinvent TCP&quot; - but I do think you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; have provided a useful perspective =
for us to consider as we progress on this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; topic,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thanx.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Les<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----=
-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none;text-underline:none">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;
 On Behalf Of Henk Smit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30,=
 2020 6:58 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; To:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [Lsr] Why only a=
 congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; isn't<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; enough<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello all,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van=
 de Velde and myself published this draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-t=
cp-00"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:=
none">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00=
</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; That started this discuss=
ion about flow/congestion control and ISIS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; My thoughts were that onc=
e we start implementing new algorithms to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; optimize ISIS flooding sp=
eed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think most people here =
have a good general understanding of TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; But if not, this is a goo=
d overview how TCP does it:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control"><span styl=
e=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://en.=
wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; What does TCP do:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP does 2 things: flow c=
ontrol and congestion control.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Flow control is: the r=
eceiver trying to prevent itself from being<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; overloaded. The receiver =
indicates, through the receiver-window-size<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; in the TCP acks, how much=
 data it can or wants to receive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Congestion control is:=
 the sender trying to prevent the links between<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sender and receiver from =
being overloaded. The sender makes an<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; educated<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; guess at what speed it ca=
n send.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The part we seem to be mi=
ssing:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the sender to make a =
guess at what speed it can send, it looks at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; how the transmission is b=
ehaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Do drop-percentage and RT=
T change ? Do acks come in at the same rate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; as the sender sends segme=
nts ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to do this, the sender mu=
st know what to expect. How acks behave.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; If you want an ISIS sende=
r to make a guess at what speed it can send,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; without changing the prot=
ocol, the only thing the sender can do is look<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; at the PSNPs that come ba=
ck from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be predicted. Because=
 a good ISIS implementation does not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; immediately<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; send a PSNP when it recei=
ves a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; like it should jitter all=
 packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; little<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to see if it can combine =
multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; In TCP, if a single segme=
nt gets lost, each new segment will cause the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver to send an ack w=
ith the seqnr of the last received byte. This<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; is called &quot;duplicate=
 acks&quot;. This triggers the sender to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-retransmission. In I=
SIS, this can't be be done. The information<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender can get from loo=
king at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP can learn from incomi=
ng acks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem with sender-s=
ide congestion control:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; In ISIS, all we know is t=
hat the default retransmit-interval is 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; And I think most implemen=
tations use that as the default. This means<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the receiver of an LSP ha=
s one requirement: send a PSNP within 5<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; For the rest, implementat=
ions are free to send PSNPs however and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; whenever<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; they want. This means a s=
ender can not really make conclusions about<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding speed, dropped L=
SPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no ordering when=
 flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender-side algorithm f=
or ISIS a lot harder.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When you think about it, =
you realize that a sender should wait the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; full 5 seconds before it =
can make any real conclusions about dropped<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; If a sender looks at PSNP=
s to determine its flooding speed, it will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; probably<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; not be able to react with=
out a delay of a few seconds. A sender might<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; send<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; hunderds or thousands of =
LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; partially be dropped, com=
plicating matters even further.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; A sender-sider algorithm =
should specify how to do PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; So imho a sender-side onl=
y algorithm can't work just like that in a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-vendor environment.=
 We must not only specify a congestion-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; control<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithm for the sender.=
 We must also specify for the receiver a more<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; specific algorithm how an=
d when to send PSNPs. At least how to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; PSNPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; under load.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that this might resu=
lt in the receiver sending more (and smaller)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; More packets might mean m=
ore congestion (inside routers).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Will receiver-side flow-c=
ontrol work ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't know if that's en=
ough. It will certainly help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I think to tackle this pr=
oblem, we need 3 parts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) sender-side congestion=
-control algorithm<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) more detailed algorith=
m on receiver when and how to send PSNPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) receiver-side flow-con=
trol mechanism<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; As discussed at length, I=
 don't know if the ISIS process on the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiving<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; router can actually know =
if its running out of resources (buffers on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; interfaces, linecards, et=
c). That's implementation dependent. A receiver<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; can definitely advertise =
a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; to use when doing congest=
ion-control. Just like TCP has both a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-control<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; window and a congestion-c=
ontrol window, and a sender uses both.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Maybe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver can even adverti=
se a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; future. An advertised upp=
er limit seems useful to me today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; What I didn't like about =
our own proposal (flooding over TCP):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem I saw with fl=
ooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding over a mult=
i-point network, setting up TCP connections<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; introduces serious challe=
nges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; connections ?<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Full mesh ? Or do all ISe=
s on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no backup DIS in=
 ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; However, the other two pr=
oposals do not solve this problem either.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; How will a sender-side co=
ngestion-avoidence algorithm determine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; whether<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; there were drops ? There =
are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; that are broadcasted are =
received by all other ISes on the LAN. There<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; no acks. Only after the D=
IS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs to request retransm=
issions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; me for all ISes on a LAN =
to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sending speed accordingly=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding on a LAN, t=
he receiver-side algorithm seems best.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Because<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; all ISes can see what the=
 lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; sure they send slow enoug=
h to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; this is a good solution, =
but is seems easier and more realistic than<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or=
 sender-side congestion-avoidance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; My conclusion:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sender-side congestion-co=
ntrol won't work without specifying in more<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; detail how and when to se=
nd PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Receiver-side flow-contro=
l will certainly help. I dont' know if it's<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; good enough. I don't know=
 if advertising a static value is good enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; But it's a start.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I still think we'll end u=
p re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; _________________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decora=
tion:none;text-underline:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span style=3D"color:=
windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; ______________________________=
_________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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tion:none;text-underline:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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windowtext;text-decoration:none;text-underline:none">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; ___________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; ___________________________________=
_______________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
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ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; pas etre diffuses, exploites ou cop=
ies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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naler<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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y contain confidential or privileged<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; information that may be protected b=
y law;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; they should not be distributed, use=
d or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; If you have received this email in =
error, please notify the sender and delete<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; this message and its attachments.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; As emails may be altered, Orange is=
 not liable for messages that have been<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; modified, changed or falsified.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">&gt; Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">_________________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
_____<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent =
contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent don=
c<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sa=
ns autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signa=
ler<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que l=
es pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alterati=
on,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
 message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">This message and its attachments may cont=
ain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">they should not be distributed, used or c=
opied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">If you have received this email in error,=
 please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
iable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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From nobody Wed May  6 07:48:35 2020
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 10:48:27 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.

The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you have =
LSDB inconsistency. That is going to last until the last node in the =
network has updated it's LSDB.

Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain =
circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.

I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the operator =
flag the broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise =
IS-IS should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood =
around the problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).

Thanks,
Chris.
[as WG member]


> On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>=20
> Les,
> =20
> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> =20
> Bruno =E2=80=93
> =20
> I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
> The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB =
update time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
> [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB =
and IP packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
> I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
> =20
> Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from =
the trigger event.
> =20
> T+ 2 seconds:
> -----------------
> B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all =
Northbound destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via =
D.
> Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.
> =20
> D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and =
finds that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes =
no changes to the forwarding plane.
> =20
> T+7 seconds
> -----------------
> B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is =
being forwarded via D.
> =20
> D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its =
forwarding plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
> =20
> We have a loop.
> =20
> T + 30 seconds
> --------------------
> D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to =
its forwarding plane.
> Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
> =20
> T+ 50 seconds
> -------------------
> D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
> It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound =
destinations via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
> Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..
> =20
> T + 55 seconds
> --------------------
> D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more looping.
> =20
> That is all I am trying to illustrate.
> =20
> If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop =
avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example =
for simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to =
include multiple node failures or a node failure plus some northbound =
link failures on other nodes.
> [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to =
microloops avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so =
including multiple node failures.
> =20
> But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. =
(you are the one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
> =20
> The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB =
inconsistency which results when some nodes support flooding an order of =
magnitude faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you =
asked me to clarify.
> [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster =
flooding could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> =20
> Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the =
network support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may =
not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the =
period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
> And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network =
support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
> =20
> --Bruno
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>=20
> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> =20
> Les,
> =20
> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> =20
> Bruno -
> =20
> Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in =
person.  Ahhh...the good old days...
> [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
> =20
> First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or =
even a small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not =
matter.
> The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or =
thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not =
applicable.
> =20
> Take the following simple topology:
> =20
>    |  | ... |            |
>      +---+             +---+
>      | C |             | E |
>      +---+             +---+
>        |                 | 1000
>      +---+             +---+
>      | B |-------------| D |
>      +---+   1000      +---+
>        |                 |
>        |                 |
>         \               /
>          \            /
>           \         /
>            \      /
>              +---+
>              | A |
>              +---+
> =20
> There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology =
southbound of A (not shown).
> Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
> =20
> C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
> When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations =
is via C.
> All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
> Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding =
(Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.
> If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
> All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode =
delay time).
> D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
> =20
> [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.
> =20
> When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates =
they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.
> But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all =
LSP updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will =
loop traffic.
> =20
> [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in =
order to sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. =
It does not including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.
> =20
> Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support =
faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" =
when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
> =20
> Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast =
flooding; all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB =
inconsistency is 50 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your =
statement.
> =20
> Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my questions:
> =20
> > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the =
behavior
> > of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is =
enabled
> > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> >=20
> > 1) Do you have data on this?
> >
> > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding =
rate on
> > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
> > network?
> =20
> =20
> Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds =
to converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could =
be a good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
> [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the =
network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across =
the path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this =
translates to LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In =
this thread, I=E2=80=99d suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB =
sync only. (*)
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976
> (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you =
want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than =
oFIB. But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple =
LSPs are involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)
> =20
> --Bruno
> =20
> One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific =
topology and a specific failure - where things might be =
better/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsistent flooding speed =
support.
> But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
> =20
>     Les
> =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
> > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> > Subject: Flooding across a network
> >
> > Les,
> >
> > > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
> > (ginsberg)
> > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> > [...]
> > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the =
behavior
> > of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is =
enabled
> > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> >
> > 1) Do you have data on this?
> >
> > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding =
rate on
> > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
> > network?
> >
> > 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple =
scenario
> > where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
> >
> > - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the =
adjacent
> > node j. Clearly Dij>0.
> > - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
> >
> > >=46rom t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes =
but k are
> > missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
> >
> > Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric =
between
> > adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k =
to i; and
> > D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.
> >
> > It seems that the time needed:
> > - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is =
D(k,j)
> > - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get =
in sync with
> > k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)
> >
> > Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could =
prolongs
> > the period of LSDB inconsistency?
> > It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this =
would
> > mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the =
shortest
> > path.
> >
> > Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs =
originated by
> > the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but =
let's start
> > with the simple case.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --Bruno
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
> > (ginsberg)
> > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> > >
> > > Henk -
> > >
> > > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
> > > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided =
to reply to
> > this one.
> > > Top posting for better readability.
> > >
> > > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
> > > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - =
neither of
> > which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
> > >
> > > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are =
significantly
> > different than that for which TCP is used.
> > > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case =
which Bruno
> > reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without =
any
> > changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of =
magnitude
> > faster than it commonly does today.
> > > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly =
and will not
> > need "TCP".
> > >
> > > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
> > >
> > > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
> > >
> > > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the =
address
> > families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something =
which I
> > think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in =
environments where
> > multiple address family support is needed
> > >
> > > I really don't want to do either of the above.
> > >
> > > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - =
and
> > both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more =
detail will be
> > required.
> > > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to =
ACK faster -
> > and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
> > > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP =
interval is
> > expressed in ISO 10589:
> > >
> > > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
> >         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
> >         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
> > >
> > > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds
> > respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
> > implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. =
These
> > numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the =
relationship
> > between the two needs to remain the same.
> > >
> > > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly =
will result in
> > additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and =
this has
> > some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an =
implementation
> > which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should =
also be
> > able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be =
smarter
> > than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
> > >
> > > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far =
draft-ginsberg-lsr-
> > isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we =
aren't aware
> > of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
> > > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still =
considering.
> > Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the =
LAN can
> > support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the =
propagation
> > rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can =
handle
> > faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed =
throughout the
> > network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller =
example
> > of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support =
faster
> > flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when =
faster
> > flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.
> > More work needs to be done here...
> > >
> > > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do =
think you
> > have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress =
on this
> > topic,
> > >
> > > Thanx.
> > >
> >     > Les
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
> > > > To: lsr@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the =
sender
> > isn't
> > > > enough
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this =
draft:
> > > > =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
> > > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and =
ISIS
> > > > flooding.
> > > >
> > > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms =
to
> > > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version =
of TCP.
> > > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of =
TCP.
> > > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What does TCP do:
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from =
being
> > > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the =
receiver-window-size
> > > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
> > > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links =
between
> > > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an
> > educated
> > > > guess at what speed it can send.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The part we seem to be missing:
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it =
looks at
> > > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the =
RTT ?
> > > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same =
rate
> > > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be =
able
> > > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks =
behave.
> > > >
> > > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can =
send,
> > > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do =
is look
> > > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of =
PSNPs can
> > > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
> > > > immediately
> > > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should =
jitter the
> > > > PSNP,
> > > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should =
wait a
> > > > little
> > > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP =
packet.
> > > >
> > > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will =
cause the
> > > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received =
byte. This
> > > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
> > > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The =
information
> > > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less =
than what
> > > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is =
5
> > > > seconds.
> > > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This =
means
> > > > that
> > > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
> > > > seconds.
> > > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
> > > > whenever
> > > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions =
about
> > > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> > > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This =
makes
> > > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
> > > >
> > > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait =
the
> > > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about =
dropped
> > > > LSPs.
> > > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it =
will
> > > > probably
> > > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender =
might
> > > > send
> > > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might =
all or
> > > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that =
in a
> > > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-
> > control
> > > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver =
a more
> > > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to =
do
> > PSNPs
> > > > under load.
> > > >
> > > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and =
smaller)
> > > > PSNPs.
> > > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
> > > >
> > > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> > > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> > > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send =
PSNPs
> > > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
> > > >
> > > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
> > > > receiving
> > > > router can actually know if its running out of resources =
(buffers on
> > > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A =
receiver
> > > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an =
upper bound
> > > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
> > > > flow-control
> > > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.
> > Maybe
> > > > the
> > > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe =
only in
> > > > the
> > > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point =
networks
> > > > (LANs).
> > > >
> > > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP =
connections
> > > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
> > > > connections ?
> > > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to =
the DIS ?
> > > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy =
quickly.
> > > >
> > > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem =
either.
> > > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine
> > whether
> > > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume =
most
> > > > LSPs
> > > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. =
There
> > > > are
> > > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes =
can send
> > > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very =
hard) to
> > > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and =
adjust their
> > > > sending speed accordingly..
> > > >
> > > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.
> > Because
> > > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. =
And make
> > > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm =
not sure
> > > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic =
than
> > > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My conclusion:
> > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in =
more
> > > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> > > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if =
it's
> > > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good =
enough.
> > > > But it's a start.
> > > >
> > > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) =
TCP.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > henk.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Lsr mailing list
> > > > Lsr@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Lsr mailing list
> > > Lsr@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
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Thread-Topic: Flooding across a network
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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--_000_MW3PR11MB4619C956E9BD70B295E788D2C1A40MW3PR11MB4619namp_
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Bruno -

The key in this example is when all nodes in the network realize that there=
 are no longer any northbound paths via C.
I am willing to stipulate that nodes that can receive LSPs faster will also=
 be able to flood LSPs faster. If that isn't the case we might as well all =
stop working on faster flooding.

In the example, all nodes other than D will have reconverged to a topology =
with no northbound paths via C in time (2 seconds + network propagation tim=
e + FIB update time).
How long would you like to allow for this? 10 seconds? 15 seconds?
That still leaves Node D in an inconsistent state for 35+ seconds where it =
thinks there are still Northbound paths via C.

If all nodes support the same flooding rate (faster or slower) they will al=
l reach an LSDB state where there are no Northbound paths via C within a fe=
w seconds of each other.
So - yes - there can still be loops even with consistent flooding rates - b=
ut they will be an order of magnitude shorter (a few seconds vs 50 seconds =
in the example).

  Les


From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 7:33 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network

Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network

Bruno -

I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB update tim=
e nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
[Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB and IP =
packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
I'd like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.

Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from the tri=
gger event.

T+ 2 seconds:
-----------------
B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound d=
estinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
Let's assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.

D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds tha=
t all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes to=
 the forwarding plane.

T+7 seconds
-----------------
B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is bein=
g forwarded via D.

D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding p=
lane for Northbound destinations still point to B.

We have a loop.

T + 30 seconds
--------------------
D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its for=
warding plane.
Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.

T+ 50 seconds
-------------------
D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations v=
ia E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
Let's assume this will take 5 seconds..

T + 55 seconds
--------------------
D has completed forwarding plane updates - no more looping.

That is all I am trying to illustrate.

If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop avoidanc=
e could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example for simplici=
ty) - it is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node fail=
ures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.
[Bruno] I'm not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops avoid=
ance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so including multiple=
 node failures.

But again, let's stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the o=
ne speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).

The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency wh=
ich results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude faster f=
looding than other nodes - which is what you asked me to clarify.
[Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster flooding c=
ould prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

Again, with you own words: "when only some nodes in the network support fas=
ter flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when fas=
ter flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y."
And with less words: "when only some nodes in the network support faster fl=
ooding [...]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."

--Bruno

   Les



From: bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com> <bruno.de=
craene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network

Les,

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Flooding across a network


Bruno -



Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person. =
 Ahhh...the good old days...

[Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.



First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a s=
mall number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.

The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands=
). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.



Take the following simple topology:



   |  | ... |            |

     +---+             +---+

     | C |             | E |

     +---+             +---+

       |                 | 1000

     +---+             +---+

     | B |-------------| D |

     +---+   1000      +---+

       |                 |

       |                 |

        \               /

         \            /

          \         /

           \      /

             +---+

             | A |

             +---+



There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southb=
ound of A (not shown).

Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.



C is a node with 1000 neighbors.

When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via=
 C.

All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.

Let's say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20=
 LSPs/seconds.

If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.

All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay=
 time).

D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.



[Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.



When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they =
will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.

But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP up=
dates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffi=
c.



[Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to =
sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not=
 including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.



Quoting you "when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding th=
e behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is=
 enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency."



Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding; a=
ll nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 5=
0 seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.



Hence I'm restating my questions:



> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavio=
r

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?





Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to c=
onverge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a go=
od amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.

[Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the netw=
ork, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across the path/=
network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates to LSDB up=
date ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, I'd suggest =
that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)

[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976

(*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you want=
. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. But a=
t some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are invol=
ved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)



--Bruno



One can always come up with examples - based on a specific topology and a s=
pecific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face =
of inconsistent flooding speed support.

But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.



    Les



> -----Original Message-----

> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com> <bruno.=
decraene@orange.com<mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com>>

> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM

> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> Subject: Flooding across a network

>

> Les,

>

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> [...]

> > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavio=
r

> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is enabled

> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

>

> 1) Do you have data on this?

>

> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate =
on

> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the

> network?

>

> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenar=
io

> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.

>

> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adja=
cent

> node j. Clearly Dij>0.

> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s

>

> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k =
are

> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.

>

> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between

> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i;=
 and

> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.

>

> It seems that the time needed:

> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)

> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in syn=
c with

> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)

>

> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs

> the period of LSDB inconsistency?

> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this woul=
d

> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shor=
test

> path.

>

> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs originat=
ed by

> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's =
start

> with the simple case.

>

> Thanks,

> --Bruno

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg

> (ginsberg)

> > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM

> >

> > Henk -

> >

> > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.

> > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to re=
ply to

> this one.

> > Top posting for better readability.

> >

> > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.

> > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of

> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).

> >

> > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly

> different than that for which TCP is used.

> > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which =
Bruno

> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any

> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnit=
ude

> faster than it commonly does today.

> > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and wil=
l not

> need "TCP".

> >

> > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:

> >

> > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic

> >

> > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address

> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something which =
I

> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments =
where

> multiple address family support is needed

> >

> > I really don't want to do either of the above.

> >

> > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and

> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail wil=
l be

> required.

> > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK f=
aster -

> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.

> > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is

> expressed in ISO 10589:

> >

> > " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic

>         > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.

>         > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."

> >

> > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds

> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and

> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. Thes=
e

> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationshi=
p

> between the two needs to remain the same.

> >

> > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will re=
sult in

> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this h=
as

> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementatio=
n

> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also=
 be

> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smar=
ter

> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.

> >

> > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsber=
g-lsr-

> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't a=
ware

> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.

> > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still consider=
ing.

> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can

> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagat=
ion

> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle

> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout t=
he

> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller exampl=
e

> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support fast=
er

> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faste=
r

> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.

> More work needs to be done here...

> >

> > In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think y=
ou

> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on t=
his

> topic,

> >

> > Thanx.

> >

>     > Les

> >

> >

> > > -----Original Message-----

> > > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Henk Smit

> > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM

> > > To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

> > > Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sende=
r

> isn't

> > > enough

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello all,

> > >

> > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:

> > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00

> > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS

> > > flooding.

> > >

> > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to

> > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TC=
P.

> > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.

> > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control

> > >

> > >

> > > What does TCP do:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.

> > >

> > > 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being

> > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size

> > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.

> > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links betw=
een

> > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an

> educated

> > > guess at what speed it can send.

> > >

> > >

> > > The part we seem to be missing:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at

> > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?

> > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate

> > > as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able

> > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.

> > >

> > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,

> > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is lo=
ok

> > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs c=
an

> > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not

> > > immediately

> > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the

> > > PSNP,

> > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a

> > > little

> > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.

> > >

> > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause th=
e

> > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. Thi=
s

> > > is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do

> > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information

> > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than wh=
at

> > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.

> > >

> > >

> > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5

> > > seconds.

> > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. This means

> > > that

> > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5

> > > seconds.

> > > For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and

> > > whenever

> > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about

> > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.

> > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes

> > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.

> > >

> > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the

> > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped

> > > LSPs.

> > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will

> > > probably

> > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might

> > > send

> > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or

> > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.

> > >

> > >

> > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a

> > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-

> control

> > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a mor=
e

> > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do

> PSNPs

> > > under load.

> > >

> > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller=
)

> > > PSNPs.

> > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).

> > >

> > >

> > > Will receiver-side flow-control work ?

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.

> > >

> > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:

> > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm

> > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs

> > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism

> > >

> > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the

> > > receiving

> > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on

> > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A recei=
ver

> > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bo=
und

> > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a

> > > flow-control

> > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.

> Maybe

> > > the

> > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in

> > > the

> > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.

> > >

> > >

> > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point network=
s

> > > (LANs).

> > >

> > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections

> > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP

> > > connections ?

> > > Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DI=
S ?

> > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickl=
y.

> > >

> > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.

> > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine

> whether

> > > there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most

> > > LSPs

> > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There

> > > are

> > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can sen=
d

> > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) =
to

> > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust the=
ir

> > > sending speed accordingly..

> > >

> > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.

> Because

> > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And mak=
e

> > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not su=
re

> > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than

> > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.

> > >

> > >

> > > My conclusion:

> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D

> > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more

> > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.

> > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's

> > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enoug=
h.

> > > But it's a start.

> > >

> > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.

> > >

> > >

> > > henk.

> > >

> > > _______________________________________________

> > > Lsr mailing list

> > > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Lsr mailing list

> > Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>

> __________________________________________________________

> __________________________________________________________

> _____

>

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___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler

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ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,

Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;

they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.

If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.

As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________



Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc

pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler

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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bruno &#8211;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The key in this example is when all nodes in the net=
work realize that there are no longer any northbound paths via C.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am willing to stipulate that nodes that can receiv=
e LSPs faster will also be able to flood LSPs faster. If that isn&#8217;t t=
he case we might as well all stop working on faster flooding.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the example, all nodes other than D will have rec=
onverged to a topology with no northbound paths via C in time (2 seconds &#=
43; network propagation time &#43; FIB update time).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How long would you like to allow for this? 10 second=
s? 15 seconds?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That still leaves Node D in an inconsistent state fo=
r 35&#43; seconds where it thinks there are still Northbound paths via C.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If all nodes support the same flooding rate (faster =
or slower) they will all reach an LSDB state where there are no Northbound =
paths via C within a few seconds of each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So &#8211; yes &#8211; there can still be loops even=
 with consistent flooding rates &#8211; but they will be an order of magnit=
ude shorter (a few seconds vs 50 seconds in the example).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>
bruno.decraene@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 06, 2020 7:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Les,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"FR" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif"> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@ci=
sco.com">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Bruno &#8211;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">I am somewhat at a loss=
 to understand your comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">The example is straight=
forward and does not need to consider FIB update time nor the ordering of p=
refix updates on different nodes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] The example is=
 straightforward but you are referring to FIB and IP packets forwarding as =
per those FIBs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I&#8217;d like we focu=
s on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Consider the state of N=
ode B and Node D at various time points from the trigger event.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">T&#43; 2 seconds:<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">-----------------<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">B has received all LSP =
Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound destinations previously =
reachable via C it installs paths via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Let&#8217;s assume it t=
ake 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D has received 40 of th=
e 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds that all Northbound destin=
ations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes to the forwarding plane.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">T&#43;7 seconds<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">-----------------<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">B has completed FIB upd=
ates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is being forwarded via D.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D has now received 140 =
of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding plane for Northbound des=
tinations still point to B.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">We have a loop.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">T &#43; 30 seconds<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">--------------------<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D has now received 600 =
of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its forwarding plane.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Traffic to Northbound d=
estinations is still looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">T&#43; 50 seconds<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">-------------------<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D has finally received =
all 1000 LSP updates..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">It triggers (another) S=
PF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations via E. It begins to upda=
te its forwarding plane.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Let&#8217;s assume this=
 will take 5 seconds..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">T &#43; 55 seconds<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">--------------------<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">D has completed forward=
ing plane updates &#8211; no more looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">That is all I am trying=
 to illustrate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">If you want to start ar=
guing that node protecting LFAs &#43; microloop avoidance could help (NOTE =
I explicitly &nbsp;took those out of the example for simplicity) &#8211; it=
 is easy enough to change the example to include multiple
 node failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on othe=
r nodes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] I&#8217;m not =
talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops avoidance, some algor=
ithms can handle any graph transition so including multiple node failures.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But again, let&#8217;s=
 stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the one speaking abou=
t microloops in the forwarding plane).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">The point here is to lo=
ok at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency which results when some n=
odes support flooding an order of magnitude faster flooding than other node=
s &#8211; which is what you asked me to clarify.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Bruno] No. I asked yo=
u to clarify why having a node with faster flooding could
</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">prolongs the period of LSDB inconsiste=
ncy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Again, with you own wo=
rds: &#8220;when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the=
 behavior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster fl=
ooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of
 LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">And with less words: &=
#8220;when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding [&#8230;]=
&nbsp; it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">--Bruno</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b>From:</b> <a href=3D=
"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">Les,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span lang=3D"FR" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif"> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@ci=
sco.com">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf=
..org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Flooding across a network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Bruno -<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Seems like it was no=
t too long ago that we were discussing this in person. &nbsp;Ahhh...the goo=
d old days...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">First, let's agree t=
hat the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a small number of LSPs.=
 For those cases flooding speed does not matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">The interesting case=
s involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thousands). And in such cases=
 LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not applicable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Take the following s=
imple topology:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; | =
... |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o=
:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; | C |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; | E |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;| 1000<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; | B |-------------| D |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; &#43;---&#43; &nbsp;&nbsp;1000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;---&#43=
;<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; /<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | A |<o:p></o:p></span></=
b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;---&#43;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">There is a topology =
northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology southbound of A (not shown=
).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Cost on all links is=
 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">C is a node with 100=
0 neighbors.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">When all links are u=
p, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via C.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">All nodes in the net=
work support fast flooding except for Node D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Let&#8217;s say fast=
 flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">If &nbsp;Node C fail=
s we have 1000 LSPs to flood.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">All nodes except for=
 D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode delay time).<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">D can receive LSPs i=
n 50 seconds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">When A and B and all=
 southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates they will start sending t=
raffic to Northbound destinations via D.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">But for the better p=
art of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP updates and still beli=
eves that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in=
 order to sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. I=
t does not including FIB (updates), nor
 IP forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">Quoting you &#8220;when only some nodes in the network support fa=
ster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quo=
t; when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs
 the period of LSDB inconsistency.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast f=
looding; all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsis=
tency is 50 seconds. Hence this example
 does not illustrate your statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">Hence I&#8217;m restating my questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the network support faster floo=
ding the behavior<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when fast=
er flooding is enabled<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the f=
looding rate on<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency acro=
ss the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">&gt; network?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Had all nodes used s=
low flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to converge, but there w=
ould be significantly less looping. There could be a good amount of blackho=
ling, but this is preferable to looping.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates acros=
s the network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _<i>FIB</i>_ inconsistency=
 across the path/network. And you seem
 to conclude from this that this translates to LSDB update ordering. Those =
are two different things. In this thread, I&#8217;d suggest that we focus o=
n IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[1]
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/rfc6976</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">(*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread i=
f you want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than o=
FIB. But at some point, it still relies
 on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are involved. (and I mean _<i>fast</i>=
_ not _<i>ordered</i>_)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">--Bruno<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">One can always come =
up with examples &#8211; based on a specific topology and a specific failur=
e - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the face of inconsisten=
t flooding speed support.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">But I hope this simp=
le example illustrates the pitfalls.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; L=
es<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; -----Original M=
essage-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; From: <a href=
=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, =
May 05, 2020 8:28 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; To: Les Ginsber=
g (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</=
a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Subject: Floodi=
ng across a network<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Les,<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr =
[<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Sent: Mond=
ay, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; [...]<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; when only =
some nodes in the network support faster flooding the behavior<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; of the whole ne=
twork may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; because it prol=
ongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; 1) Do you have =
data on this?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; 2) If not, can =
you provide an example where increasing the flooding rate on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; one adjacency p=
rolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; network?<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; 3) In the meant=
ime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple scenario<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; where a single =
LSP needs to be flooded across the network.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; - Let's call Di=
j the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the adjacent<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; node j. Clearly=
 Dij&gt;0.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; - Let's call k =
the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;From t0, th=
e LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k are<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; missing the LSP=
 and hence only know about the 'old' topology.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Let's call&nbsp=
; SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; adjacent nodes =
i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; D(k,i) the shor=
test distance between k and i.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; It seems that t=
he time needed:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; - for node j to=
 learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; - for all nodes=
 across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; k, is Max[for a=
ll j] D(k,j)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Then how can re=
ducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could prolongs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; the period of L=
SDB inconsistency?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; It seems to me =
that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this would<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; mean that decre=
asing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the shortest<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; path.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Note: I agree t=
hat there are other cases, such as&nbsp; multiple LSPs originated by<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; the same node, =
and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but let's start<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; with the simple=
 case.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; --Bruno<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; -----Origi=
nal Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; From: Lsr =
[<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;te=
xt-decoration:none">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; (ginsberg)<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Sent: Mond=
ay, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Henk -<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Thanx for =
your thoughtful posts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; I have rea=
d your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to reply to<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; this one.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Top postin=
g for better readability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; There is b=
road agreement that faster flooding is desirable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; There are =
now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither of<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; which is propos=
ing to use TCP (or equivalent).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; I have com=
mented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are significantly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; different than =
that for which TCP is used.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; I think it=
 is also useful to note that even the simple test case which Bruno<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; reported on in =
last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without any<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; changes to the =
protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of magnitude<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; faster than it =
commonly does today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; This gives=
 me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and will not<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; need &quot;TCP&=
quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Introducin=
g a TCP based solution requires:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; a)A major =
change to the adjacency formation logic<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; b)Removal =
of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the address<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; families whose =
reachability advertisements it supports - something which I<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; think is a grea=
t strength of the protocol - particularly in environments where<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; multiple addres=
s family support is needed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; I really d=
on't want to do either of the above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Your comme=
nts regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; both of the dra=
ft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail will be<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; required.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; It is intu=
itive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK faster -<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; and probably ev=
en retransmit faster when that is needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; The basic =
relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval is<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; expressed in IS=
O 10589:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &quot; par=
tialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; action for transmission of Partial Se=
quence Number PDUs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTrans=
mission-Interval.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Of course =
ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; respectively) a=
ssociated with a much slower flooding rate and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; implementations=
 I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude. These<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; numbers need to=
 be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the relationship<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; between the two=
 needs to remain the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; It is also=
 true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will result in<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; additional PDUs=
 which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this has<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; some impact. Bu=
t I think it is reasonable to expect that an implementation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; which can suppo=
rt sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should also be<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; able to send/re=
ceive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be smarter<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; than sending on=
e PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; LANs are a=
 more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-ginsberg-lsr-<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; isis-flooding-s=
cale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't aware<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; of this - just =
have focused on the P2P behavior first.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; What the b=
est behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still considering.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Slowing floodin=
g down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN can<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; support may not=
 be the best strategy - as it also slows down the propagation<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; rate for system=
s downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can handle<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; faster flooding=
 - thereby having an impact on flooding speed throughout the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; network in a wa=
y which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller example<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; of the larger i=
ssue that when only some nodes in the network support faster<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; flooding the be=
havior of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; flooding is ena=
bled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; More work needs=
 to be done here...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; In summary=
, I don't expect to have to &quot;reinvent TCP&quot; - but I do think you<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; have provided a=
 useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on this<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; topic,<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Thanx.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&gt; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----=
Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; From:=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:windo=
wtext;text-decoration:none">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf O=
f Henk Smit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent:=
 Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <=
a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Subje=
ct: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the sender<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; isn't<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; enoug=
h<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello=
 all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Two y=
ears ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this draft:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00=
">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; That =
started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flood=
ing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; My th=
oughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms to<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; optim=
ize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of TCP.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I thi=
nk most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; But i=
f not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://en.wikipedia.=
org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; What =
does TCP do:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP d=
oes 2 things: flow control and congestion control.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Fl=
ow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; overl=
oaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-size<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; in th=
e TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Co=
ngestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links between<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sende=
r and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; educated<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; guess=
 at what speed it can send.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
art we seem to be missing:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; For t=
he sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; how t=
he transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT ?<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Do dr=
op-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same rate<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; as th=
e sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be able<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to do=
 this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; If yo=
u want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can send,<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; witho=
ut changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is look<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; at th=
e PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of PSNPs can<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; not b=
e predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; immed=
iately<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; send =
a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; like =
it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; littl=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to se=
e if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; In TC=
P, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause the<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; is ca=
lled &quot;duplicate acks&quot;. This triggers the sender to do<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-=
retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sen=
der can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than what<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP c=
an learn from incoming acks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
roblem with sender-side congestion control:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; In IS=
IS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; secon=
ds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; And I=
 think most implementations use that as the default. This means<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; that<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the r=
eceiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; secon=
ds.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; For t=
he rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; whene=
ver<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; they =
want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions about<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flood=
ing speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; There=
 is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This makes<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; a sen=
der-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; full =
5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about dropped<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; If a =
sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; proba=
bly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; not b=
e able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender might<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; send<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; hunde=
rds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all or<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; parti=
ally be dropped, complicating matters even further.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; A sen=
der-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; So im=
ho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; multi=
-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; control<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; algor=
ithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a more<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; speci=
fic algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; PSNPs<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; under=
 load.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Note =
that this might result in the receiver sending more (and smaller)<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; More =
packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Will =
receiver-side flow-control work ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I don=
't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I thi=
nk to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) se=
nder-side congestion-control algorithm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) mo=
re detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) re=
ceiver-side flow-control mechanism<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; As di=
scussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ving<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; route=
r can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; inter=
faces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A receiver<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; can d=
efinitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper bound<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; to us=
e when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-=
control<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; windo=
w and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Maybe<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; recei=
ver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe only in<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; the<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; futur=
e. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; What =
I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; The p=
roblem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point networks<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs=
).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP connections<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; intro=
duces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; conne=
ctions ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Full =
mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the DIS ?<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; There=
 is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy quickly.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Howev=
er, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; How w=
ill a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; whether<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; there=
 were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume most<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; that =
are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. There<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; are<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; no ac=
ks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs=
 to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very hard) to<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; me fo=
r all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust their<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sendi=
ng speed accordingly..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; When =
flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Because<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; all I=
Ses can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And make<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; sure =
they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not sure<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; this =
is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-=
flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; My co=
nclusion:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sende=
r-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in more<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; detai=
l how and when to send PSNPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Recei=
ver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; good =
enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good enough.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; But i=
t's a start.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; I sti=
ll think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; _____=
__________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr m=
ailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; __________=
_____________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; Lsr mailin=
g list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D=
"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></=
a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; <a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">
<span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; _______________=
___________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; _______________=
___________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; _____<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Ce message et s=
es pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; confidentielles=
 ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; pas etre diffus=
es, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; message par err=
eur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; a l'expediteur =
et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; electroniques e=
tant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Orange decline =
toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; falsifie. Merci=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; This message an=
d its attachments may contain confidential or privileged<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; information tha=
t may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; they should not=
 be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; If you have rec=
eived this email in error, please notify the sender and delete<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; this message an=
d its attachments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; As emails may b=
e altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; modified, chang=
ed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; Thank you.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">___________________________________=
___________________________________________________________________________=
___________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Ce message et ses pieces jointes pe=
uvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doive=
nt donc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou cop=
ies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le=
 signaler<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi=
 que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'al=
teration,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Orange decline toute responsabilite=
 si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">This message and its attachments ma=
y contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by l=
aw;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">they should not be distributed, use=
d or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">If you have received this email in =
error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments=
.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">As emails may be altered, Orange is=
 not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p=
></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">________________________________________________________________=
_________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informatio=
ns confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vou=
s avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">This message and its attachments may contain confidential or pri=
vileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisa=
tion.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">If you have received this email in error, please notify the send=
er and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that=
 have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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From nobody Wed May  6 08:40:57 2020
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From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 21:10:08 +0530
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To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org,  last-call@ietf.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/-GXHT547No-BQ9HAljjLI5h5JC4>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply, snipping to points that need further discussion...

> What about:
>
> Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane relies on Interior Gateway
> Protocols (IGP) such as OSPFv2 [RFC8665] and OSPFv3 [RFC8666] to signal
> labels.
>

Much better.


> > (3) Section 4
> >
> >     The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
> >     advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.
> >
> >     Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
> >     support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
> >     advertised only when following conditions are met:
>
> What is meant is that even though all the below conditions are set, if
> the node does not support the advertisement, one can not conclude what
> its ERLD is.
>
> If the node supports the advertisement of the ERLD, but the below
> conditions are not met, the node should not advertise the ELC capability
> in a first place.
>

There are two things here - (a) the actual load balancing capability
of a node (b) the capability to advertise the ELC/ERLD. Usually
capability and the advertisement of the capability go together. In
this case we want to be explicit that the absence of ERLD-MSD
indicates just (b) and not (a).

You do use the word "only", so may its all fine! I will leave it to
you/shepherd.

> >
> >     *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
> >        the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].
> >
> >     *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
> >        value.
> >
> >     *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
> >        load-balancing function.
> >
> >     Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
> >     absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
> >     it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?
> >
> > (4) Section 4
> >
> >      What would be the behavior if an OSPF router receives a ERLD of the node
> >      but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
> >      RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within OSPF. If it is to
> >      just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.
>
> the behavior is specified in the RFC 8662.  OSPF is just a messenger,
> not the consumer of this information.
>

Is there some text in RFC 8662 the clarify what one does on the
receiving side? I found only the sending conditions in section 4. How
does a receiving node behaves when he receives conflicting
information, which one does he trust (no ELC present or ERLD=10). We
could have interop issues here if you leave it open.

Thanks!
Dhruv

PS. Since the comments are the same for the IS-IS I-D, no need duplicate them.


From nobody Wed May  6 09:00:16 2020
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi Dhruv,

please see inline:

On 06/05/2020 17:40, Dhruv Dhody wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Thanks for your reply, snipping to points that need further discussion...
> 
>> What about:
>>
>> Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane relies on Interior Gateway
>> Protocols (IGP) such as OSPFv2 [RFC8665] and OSPFv3 [RFC8666] to signal
>> labels.
>>
> 
> Much better.
> 
> 
>>> (3) Section 4
>>>
>>>      The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
>>>      advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.
>>>
>>>      Do you mean to differentiate between support for the capability itself v/s
>>>      support for 'advertisement' only. But RFC 8662 says that ERLD value is
>>>      advertised only when following conditions are met:
>>
>> What is meant is that even though all the below conditions are set, if
>> the node does not support the advertisement, one can not conclude what
>> its ERLD is.
>>
>> If the node supports the advertisement of the ERLD, but the below
>> conditions are not met, the node should not advertise the ELC capability
>> in a first place.
>>
> 
> There are two things here - (a) the actual load balancing capability
> of a node (b) the capability to advertise the ELC/ERLD. Usually
> capability and the advertisement of the capability go together. In
> this case we want to be explicit that the absence of ERLD-MSD
> indicates just (b) and not (a).
> 
> You do use the word "only", so may its all fine! I will leave it to
> you/shepherd.

yes, the absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements only indicates that a node 
does not support advertisement of (b).

It can not be interpreted that (b) is not supported.  Old nodes that do 
not advertise ERLD-MSD can not be assumed not to support non-zero ERLD.

The "only" is there to express the above.

> 
>>>
>>>      *  MUST be entropy label capable and, as a consequence, MUST apply
>>>         the data-plane procedures defined in [RFC6790].
>>>
>>>      *  MUST be able to read an ELI/EL, which is located within its ERLD
>>>         value.
>>>
>>>      *  MUST take into account an EL within the first ERLD labels in its
>>>         load-balancing function.
>>>
>>>      Thus, I am not sure about this sentence. Maybe you mean to say that the
>>>      absence only indicates that the ERLD-MSD value of the node is unknown (and
>>>      it might still be capable of handling ELI/EL)?
>>>
>>> (4) Section 4
>>>
>>>       What would be the behavior if an OSPF router receives a ERLD of the node
>>>       but no ELC set for the corresponding prefix? That would be an error as per
>>>       RFC 8662, we should specify how one handles it within OSPF. If it is to
>>>       just ignore the ERLD, we should explicitly say that.
>>
>> the behavior is specified in the RFC 8662.  OSPF is just a messenger,
>> not the consumer of this information.
>>
> 
> Is there some text in RFC 8662 the clarify what one does on the
> receiving side? I found only the sending conditions in section 4. How
> does a receiving node behaves when he receives conflicting
> information, which one does he trust (no ELC present or ERLD=10). We
> could have interop issues here if you leave it open.

well, if the node does not support ELC, then ERLD value is irrelevant. 
It's like having a speed limit for a road with no entry.

But that is something that does not belong to protocol drafts.

thanks,
Peter


> 
> Thanks!
> Dhruv
> 
> PS. Since the comments are the same for the IS-IS I-D, no need duplicate them.
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Congestion (flow) control thoughts.
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Hi Xuesong,

> <Xuesong> I think there is no need to distinguish the concept of flow =
control and congestion control, considering that the core idea is the =
same: monitor the sending rate to match the capability of the =
bottleneck, no matter there are competitors or not. And the control loop =
is necessary in both case.=20


This matches my perspective.


> <Xuesong> Thank you for explaining about the bottleneck of flooding =
and different cc solutions that are under discussion. It is helpful and =
I will read the drafts.=20
> There is still one more question left in the previous email: " What is =
the criteria of comparing different solutions?". I think this is crucial =
for further discussion and comparative tests. I notice that in Bruno's =
data, some parameters are mentioned, such as " Duration"," LSP/second"," =
avg inter-LSP delay", "retransmission time". I'm wondering whether it is =
able to choose a better solution through these parameters. If not, what =
should be added or considered. (Some other issues are also considered =
when choosing cc mechanism in layer 4, such as: fairness among flows, =
co-existence with other cc mechanism .. )


Sorry for missing the question. The criteria are, I think, quite clear: =
minimize overall flooding time.  As Bruno=E2=80=99s figures show, that =
does NOT happen simply by transmitting at the maximum rate. That causes =
overruns, resulting in retransmissions and that ends up being quite slow =
(tho we can work on that too). The question then is: what control =
mechanisms do we put in place to ensure minimal flooding time? This =
needs to interoperate across the full spectrum of implementations: fast =
brand X needs to not overrun slow brand Y while performing well with =
fast brand Z.

The floor is very much open.

Tony


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From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 12:50:41 -0400
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References: <24209_1588692477_5EB185FD_24209_35_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3D455@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB46198A668B9F2532BCCC38FEC1A70@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <6287_1588771252_5EB2B9B4_6287_332_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3F698@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB46199CC33B10BC9D3D622D2AC1A40@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <10562_1588775602_5EB2CAB2_10562_251_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3FB63@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <87CDE7F3-E08D-4C45-9AF1-9DAD635F8908@chopps.org> <MW3PR11MB461958F226F7CC072E702ED9C1A40@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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I guess all this discussion has to do with this other part of that =
document:

   "o  Limitations on the processing rate of incoming control traffic

   However, intentionally using different flooding rates on different
   interfaces increases the possibility of longer periods of LSDB
   inconsistency which in turn delays network wide convergence."

[chopps: but using dynamic rates (thus different), allows one to flood =
around a bad node in the network, among other things, see below]

   Many implementations provide knobs to control the rate of LSP
   flooding on a per interface basis.  To the extent that this serves as
   a flow control mechanism, this may reduce the number of dropped LSPs
   during high activity bursts and thereby reduce the number of LSP
   retransmissions required.  As LSP retransimssion timers are typically
   long (multiple seconds), this may result in shorter convergence times
   than if the LSP burst was uncontrolled.  But if the performance
   characteristics of routers in the network are such that some routers
   consistently accept and process fewer LSPs/second than other routers,
   convergence will be degraded.  Tuning LSP transmission timers on a
   per interface basis will never provide optimal convergence.
   Consistent flooding rates should be used on all interfaces."

This last bit is what people are disagreeing with since we are now =
considering dynamically updating the flooding rate to be locally =
optimal, and I believe that last part is targeted at that concept.

The document is implying that it is not only minimizing LSDB =
inconsistency in the network by flooding at the same rate on all =
interfaces, but it is asserting that doing differently will never =
provide optimal convergence. I believe that assertion is false; it is =
ignoring topological differences. Consider this network:

+-+
| | --- [C0] ... [x0]
|A|                |
| | ------------ [C1]
+-+

If the same flooding rate is used everywhere, or even just on As =
interfaces, and C1 and x0 (prior to the LSDB change) used to reach [A] =
through [C1->A] but after the LSDB change will reach [A] through =
[x0->..C0] you will have guaranteed a loop between [C1] and [x0] to =
reach [A] for all the unnecessary flooding delay the document is adding =
through equality requirements.=20

If instead you flood optimally (allowing for going as fast as possible) =
then the loop is minimized to the difference between [A]-[C1] flood time =
and [A]-[C0]-...-[x0] flood time. Clearly an optimal flooding rate (even =
if unequal) minimizes the loop between [C1] and [x0]. This is just one =
of any number of similar topologies that are possible (imagine a bunch =
of sub-topologies that replicate the issue above).

Anyway I'm with Tony Li here, we need some running code and data to look =
at with various scenarios.

Thanks,
Chris.
[as WG member]

> On May 6, 2020, at 10:58 AM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) =
<ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Chris -
>=20
> I agree.
>=20
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-flooding-scale-02#sect=
ion-3.1 states:
>=20
> " Inability to handle LSP reception at the
>   targeted flooding rate should be viewed as an error condition which
>   should be reported.  If this condition persists, it indicates that
>   the network is provisioned in a way which does not support optimal
>   convergence.  Steps need to be taken to resolve this issue.  Such
>   steps could include upgrading the routers that demonstrate this
>   condition consistently, altering the configuration on the =
problematic
>   routers or altering the position of the problematic routers in the
>   network so as to reduce the overall load on those routers, or
>   reducing the LSP transmission rate network-wide."
>=20
>   Les
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 7:48 AM
>> To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
>> Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
>> <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>>=20
>> Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.
>>=20
>> The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you have =
LSDB
>> inconsistency. That is going to last until the last node in the =
network has
>> updated it's LSDB.
>>=20
>> Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain
>> circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.
>>=20
>> I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the =
operator flag the
>> broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS
>> should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood =
around the
>> problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Chris.
>> [as WG member]
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Les,
>>>=20
>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>=20
>>> Bruno =E2=80=93
>>>=20
>>> I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
>>> The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB =
update
>> time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
>>> [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB =
and IP
>> packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
>>> I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
>>>=20
>>> Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from =
the
>> trigger event.
>>>=20
>>> T+ 2 seconds:
>>> -----------------
>>> B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all =
Northbound
>> destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding =
plane.
>>>=20
>>> D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and =
finds that
>> all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no =
changes to
>> the forwarding plane.
>>>=20
>>> T+7 seconds
>>> -----------------
>>> B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations =
is being
>> forwarded via D.
>>>=20
>>> D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its =
forwarding
>> plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
>>>=20
>>> We have a loop.
>>>=20
>>> T + 30 seconds
>>> --------------------
>>> D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to =
its
>> forwarding plane.
>>> Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
>>>=20
>>> T+ 50 seconds
>>> -------------------
>>> D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
>>> It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound =
destinations
>> via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..
>>>=20
>>> T + 55 seconds
>>> --------------------
>>> D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more looping.
>>>=20
>>> That is all I am trying to illustrate.
>>>=20
>>> If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop
>> avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the =
example for
>> simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to =
include multiple node
>> failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on =
other nodes.
>>> [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to =
microloops
>> avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so =
including
>> multiple node failures.
>>>=20
>>> But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. =
(you are the one
>> speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
>>>=20
>>> The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB =
inconsistency
>> which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude
>> faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked me =
to clarify.
>>> [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster =
flooding
>> could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>=20
>>> Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the =
network
>> support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be
>> "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the =
period of
>> LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>>> And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network =
support
>> faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>>>=20
>>> --Bruno
>>>=20
>>>   Les
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>=20
>>> Les,
>>>=20
>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>=20
>>> Bruno -
>>>=20
>>> Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in =
person.
>> Ahhh...the good old days...
>>> [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
>>>=20
>>> First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or =
even a small
>> number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
>>> The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
>> thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are =
not
>> applicable.
>>>=20
>>> Take the following simple topology:
>>>=20
>>>   |  | ... |            |
>>>     +---+             +---+
>>>     | C |             | E |
>>>     +---+             +---+
>>>       |                 | 1000
>>>     +---+             +---+
>>>     | B |-------------| D |
>>>     +---+   1000      +---+
>>>       |                 |
>>>       |                 |
>>>        \               /
>>>         \            /
>>>          \         /
>>>           \      /
>>>             +---+
>>>             | A |
>>>             +---+
>>>=20
>>> There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology
>> southbound of A (not shown).
>>> Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
>>>=20
>>> C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
>>> When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations =
is via C.
>>> All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
>>> Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding =
(Node D) is 20
>> LSPs/seconds.
>>> If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
>>> All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus =
internode delay
>> time).
>>> D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
>>>=20
>>> [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.
>>>=20
>>> When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP =
updates
>> they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.
>>> But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all =
LSP
>> updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will =
loop traffic.
>>>=20
>>> [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in =
order to
>> sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It =
does not
>> including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.
>>>=20
>>> Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support =
faster
>> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when =
faster
>> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>>>=20
>>> Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast =
flooding;
>> all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB =
inconsistency is 50
>> seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.
>>>=20
>>> Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my questions:
>>>=20
>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
>> behavior
>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
>> enabled
>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>>=20
>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
>>>>=20
>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding =
rate
>> on
>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
>>>> network?
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 =
seconds to
>> converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could =
be a
>> good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
>>> [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across =
the
>> network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across =
the
>> path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates =
to
>> LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, =
I=E2=80=99d
>> suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)
>>> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976
>>> (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if =
you want.
>> IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB. =
But at
>> some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are =
involved.
>> (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)
>>>=20
>>> --Bruno
>>>=20
>>> One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific =
topology and
>> a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in =
the
>> face of inconsistent flooding speed support.
>>> But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
>>>=20
>>>    Les
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Flooding across a network
>>>>=20
>>>> Les,
>>>>=20
>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>>>> (ginsberg)
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>>>> [...]
>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
>> behavior
>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
>> enabled
>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>>=20
>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
>>>>=20
>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding =
rate
>> on
>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
>>>> network?
>>>>=20
>>>> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple =
scenario
>>>> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
>>>>=20
>>>> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to =
the
>> adjacent
>>>> node j. Clearly Dij>0.
>>>> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
>>>>=20
>>>>> =46rom t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all =
nodes but k
>> are
>>>> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
>>>>=20
>>>> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric =
between
>>>> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k =
to i; and
>>>> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.
>>>>=20
>>>> It seems that the time needed:
>>>> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is =
D(k,j)
>>>> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get =
in sync
>> with
>>>> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)
>>>>=20
>>>> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could
>> prolongs
>>>> the period of LSDB inconsistency?
>>>> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, =
this
>> would
>>>> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of =
the
>> shortest
>>>> path.
>>>>=20
>>>> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs =
originated
>> by
>>>> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but =
let's
>> start
>>>> with the simple case.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> --Bruno
>>>>=20
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>>>> (ginsberg)
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Henk -
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
>>>>> I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided =
to reply
>> to
>>>> this one.
>>>>> Top posting for better readability.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
>>>>> There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - =
neither of
>>>> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are =
significantly
>>>> different than that for which TCP is used.
>>>>> I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case =
which
>> Bruno
>>>> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that =
without
>> any
>>>> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of
>> magnitude
>>>> faster than it commonly does today.
>>>>> This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly =
and will
>> not
>>>> need "TCP".
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
>>>>>=20
>>>>> b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the =
address
>>>> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something =
which
>> I
>>>> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in =
environments
>> where
>>>> multiple address family support is needed
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I really don't want to do either of the above.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct - =
and
>>>> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more =
detail will
>> be
>>>> required.
>>>>> It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to =
ACK faster
>> -
>>>> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
>>>>> The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP =
interval is
>>>> expressed in ISO 10589:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
>>>>> action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
>>>>> It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds
>>>> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
>>>> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of =
magnitude.
>> These
>>>> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the
>> relationship
>>>> between the two needs to remain the same.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly =
will result
>> in
>>>> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and =
this
>> has
>>>> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an
>> implementation
>>>> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate =
should also
>> be
>>>> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to =
be
>> smarter
>>>> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-
>> ginsberg-lsr-
>>>> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we =
aren't
>> aware
>>>> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
>>>>> What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still
>> considering.
>>>> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the =
LAN
>> can
>>>> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the
>> propagation
>>>> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can
>> handle
>>>> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed =
throughout
>> the
>>>> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller
>> example
>>>> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network =
support
>> faster
>>>> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
>> faster
>>>> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB =
inconsistency.
>>>> More work needs to be done here...
>>>>>=20
>>>>> In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do =
think
>> you
>>>> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we =
progress on
>> this
>>>> topic,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanx.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Les
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
>>>>>> To: lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the
>> sender
>>>> isn't
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this =
draft:
>>>>>> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
>>>>>> That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and =
ISIS
>>>>>> flooding.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms
>> to
>>>>>> optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version =
of
>> TCP.
>>>>>> I think most people here have a good general understanding of =
TCP.
>>>>>> But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> What does TCP do:
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from =
being
>>>>>> overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the =
receiver-window-size
>>>>>> in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
>>>>>> 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links
>> between
>>>>>> sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an
>>>> educated
>>>>>> guess at what speed it can send.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The part we seem to be missing:
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it =
looks at
>>>>>> how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the =
RTT ?
>>>>>> Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same
>> rate
>>>>>> as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be =
able
>>>>>> to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can =
send,
>>>>>> without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do =
is
>> look
>>>>>> at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of =
PSNPs
>> can
>>>>>> not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>> send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter =
the
>>>>>> PSNP,
>>>>>> like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should =
wait a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will =
cause the
>>>>>> receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. =
This
>>>>>> is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
>>>>>> fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The =
information
>>>>>> a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less =
than
>> what
>>>>>> TCP can learn from incoming acks.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The problem with sender-side congestion control:
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
>>>>>> seconds.
>>>>>> And I think most implementations use that as the default. This =
means
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
>>>>>> seconds.
>>>>>> For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
>>>>>> whenever
>>>>>> they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions =
about
>>>>>> flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
>>>>>> There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This
>> makes
>>>>>> a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait =
the
>>>>>> full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about =
dropped
>>>>>> LSPs.
>>>>>> If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it =
will
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender =
might
>>>>>> send
>>>>>> hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all =
or
>>>>>> partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in =
a
>>>>>> multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-
>>>> control
>>>>>> algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a
>> more
>>>>>> specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do
>>>> PSNPs
>>>>>> under load.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and =
smaller)
>>>>>> PSNPs.
>>>>>> More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
>>>>>> 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
>>>>>> 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send PSNPs
>>>>>> 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
>>>>>> receiving
>>>>>> router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers =
on
>>>>>> interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A
>> receiver
>>>>>> can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an =
upper
>> bound
>>>>>> to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
>>>>>> flow-control
>>>>>> window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.
>>>> Maybe
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe =
only
>> in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point
>> networks
>>>>>> (LANs).
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP
>> connections
>>>>>> introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
>>>>>> connections ?
>>>>>> Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to =
the DIS
>> ?
>>>>>> There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy =
quickly.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem =
either.
>>>>>> How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine
>>>> whether
>>>>>> there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume
>> most
>>>>>> LSPs
>>>>>> that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN. =
There
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can =
send
>>>>>> PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very =
hard)
>> to
>>>>>> me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust =
their
>>>>>> sending speed accordingly..
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.
>>>> Because
>>>>>> all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And
>> make
>>>>>> sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm =
not
>> sure
>>>>>> this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic =
than
>>>>>> ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> My conclusion:
>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>>> Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in
>> more
>>>>>> detail how and when to send PSNPs.
>>>>>> Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if =
it's
>>>>>> good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good =
enough.
>>>>>> But it's a start.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) =
TCP.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> henk.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>=20
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>> __________________________________________________________
>>>>=20
>> __________________________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>>=20
>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous =
avez recu
>> ce
>>>> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
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>>>> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme
>> ou
>>>> falsifie. Merci.
>>>>=20
>>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged
>>>> information that may be protected by law;
>>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
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>>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender =
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>>>=20
>>>=20
>> __________________________________________________________
>> __________________________________________________________
>> _____
>>>=20
>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous =
avez recu ce
>> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages
>> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme ou
>> falsifie. Merci.
>>>=20
>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged
>> information that may be protected by law;
>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.
>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender =
and delete
>> this message and its attachments.
>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that =
have been
>> modified, changed or falsified.
>>> Thank you.
>>>=20
>> __________________________________________________________
>> __________________________________________________________
>> _____
>>>=20
>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous =
avez recu ce
>> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les =
messages
>> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, =
deforme ou
>> falsifie. Merci.
>>>=20
>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or =
privileged
>> information that may be protected by law;
>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without =
authorisation.
>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender =
and delete
>> this message and its attachments.
>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that =
have been
>> modified, changed or falsified.
>>> Thank you.
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 17:06:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
CC: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 17:09:41 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Les, maybe I am missing your point, but it sounds like what you are 
asking for is a (better?) version of the micro-loop prevention work, so 
as to mitigate the interaction between inconsistent convergence and 
fast-reroute?

Yours,
Joel

On 5/6/2020 1:53 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> Bruno -
> 
> I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to understand each other. I am trying my best.
> 
> Look at it this way:
> 
> You are the customer. 😊
> I am the vendor.
> 
> The failure scenario I describe below happens and you notice that all Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever fast flooding is enabled.
> I think you are going to complain about this - to me. 😊
> 
> And I am going to tell you that this is a consequence of enabling fast flooding in the presence of a node which does not support it. Your options to reduce the period of looping will be:
> 
> 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flooding
> 2)Disable fast flooding
> 3)Redesign your network
> 
>      Les
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM
>> To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>>
>>> From: Christian Hopps [mailto:chopps@chopps.org]
>>>
>>> Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.
>>>
>>> The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you have LSDB
>> inconsistency.
>>
>> Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.
>> I would even say: "The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP then you
>> have LSDB inconsistency." But no big deal if there is disagreement on this
>> detail.
>>
>>> That is going to last until the last node in the network has updated it's LSDB.
>>
>> Absolutely.
>> So the faster we flood, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.
>>
>> Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood faster, there is a chance of
>> shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in all cases, I don't see how this could
>> make the LSDB inconsistency longer.
>>
>>
>>> Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain
>> circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.
>>>
>>> I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the operator flag the
>> broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS
>> should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood around the
>> problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).
>>
>> +1
>> On a side note, I would not call a router flooding slowly as "broken". I find it
>> understandable that in a given network there are different type of routers
>> (core vs aggregation), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencies with 50 PEs
>> vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware
>> generations, different software, different vendors with different
>> perspectives/markets.
>>
>> Thank you Chris.
>>
>> --Bruno
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris.
>>> [as WG member]
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Les,
>>>>
>>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
>>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
>>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>>
>>>> Bruno –
>>>>
>>>> I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
>>>> The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB update
>> time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
>>>> [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB and IP
>> packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
>>>> I’d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from the
>> trigger event.
>>>>
>>>> T+ 2 seconds:
>>>> -----------------
>>>> B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound
>> destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
>>>> Let’s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.
>>>>
>>>> D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds
>> that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes
>> to the forwarding plane.
>>>>
>>>> T+7 seconds
>>>> -----------------
>>>> B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is
>> being forwarded via D.
>>>>
>>>> D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding
>> plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
>>>>
>>>> We have a loop.
>>>>
>>>> T + 30 seconds
>>>> --------------------
>>>> D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its
>> forwarding plane.
>>>> Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
>>>>
>>>> T+ 50 seconds
>>>> -------------------
>>>> D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
>>>> It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations
>> via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
>>>> Let’s assume this will take 5 seconds..
>>>>
>>>> T + 55 seconds
>>>> --------------------
>>>> D has completed forwarding plane updates – no more looping.
>>>>
>>>> That is all I am trying to illustrate.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop
>> avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example for
>> simplicity) – it is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node
>> failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.
>>>> [Bruno] I’m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops
>> avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so including
>> multiple node failures.
>>>>
>>>> But again, let’s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the
>> one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
>>>>
>>>> The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency
>> which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude
>> faster flooding than other nodes – which is what you asked me to clarify.
>>>> [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster flooding
>> could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>>
>>>> Again, with you own words: “when only some nodes in the network
>> support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be
>> "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of
>> LSDB inconsistency.”
>>>> And with less words: “when only some nodes in the network support
>> faster flooding […]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.”
>>>>
>>>> --Bruno
>>>>
>>>>     Les
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>>
>>>> Les,
>>>>
>>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
>>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
>>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>>>>
>>>> Bruno -
>>>>
>>>> Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person.
>> Ahhh...the good old days...
>>>> [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
>>>>
>>>> First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a
>> small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
>>>> The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
>> thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not
>> applicable.
>>>>
>>>> Take the following simple topology:
>>>>
>>>>     |  | ... |            |
>>>>       +---+             +---+
>>>>       | C |             | E |
>>>>       +---+             +---+
>>>>         |                 | 1000
>>>>       +---+             +---+
>>>>       | B |-------------| D |
>>>>       +---+   1000      +---+
>>>>         |                 |
>>>>         |                 |
>>>>          \               /
>>>>           \            /
>>>>            \         /
>>>>             \      /
>>>>               +---+
>>>>               | A |
>>>>               +---+
>>>>
>>>> There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology
>> southbound of A (not shown).
>>>> Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
>>>>
>>>> C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
>>>> When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via
>> C.
>>>> All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
>>>> Let’s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20
>> LSPs/seconds.
>>>> If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
>>>> All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode
>> delay time).
>>>> D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.
>>>>
>>>> When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP
>> updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.
>>>> But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP
>> updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop traffic.
>>>>
>>>> [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to
>> sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It does not
>> including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.
>>>>
>>>> Quoting you “when only some nodes in the network support faster
>> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when faster
>> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.”
>>>>
>>>> Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast flooding;
>> all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistency is 50
>> seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.
>>>>
>>>> Hence I’m restating my questions:
>>>>
>>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
>> behavior
>>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
>> enabled
>>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding
>> rate on
>>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
>>>>> network?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds to
>> converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could be a
>> good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
>>>> [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across the
>> network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across the
>> path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates to
>> LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread, I’d
>> suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)
>>>> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976
>>>> (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if you
>> want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than oFIB.
>> But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs are
>> involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)
>>>>
>>>> --Bruno
>>>>
>>>> One can always come up with examples – based on a specific topology
>> and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged in the
>> face of inconsistent flooding speed support.
>>>> But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
>>>>
>>>>      Les
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Flooding across a network
>>>>>
>>>>> Les,
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>>>>> (ginsberg)
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
>> behavior
>>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
>> enabled
>>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding
>> rate on
>>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
>>>>> network?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple
>> scenario
>>>>> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to the
>> adjacent
>>>>> node j. Clearly Dij>0.
>>>>> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=0s
>>>>>
>>>>> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes but k
>> are
>>>>> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between
>>>>> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and
>>>>> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems that the time needed:
>>>>> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)
>>>>> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get in sync
>> with
>>>>> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)
>>>>>
>>>>> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could
>> prolongs
>>>>> the period of LSDB inconsistency?
>>>>> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, this
>> would
>>>>> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of the
>> shortest
>>>>> path.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs
>> originated by
>>>>> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but
>> let's start
>>>>> with the simple case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> --Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>>>>> (ginsberg)
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henk -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
>>>>>> I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided to
>> reply to
>>>>> this one.
>>>>>> Top posting for better readability.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
>>>>>> There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neither
>> of
>>>>> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are
>> significantly
>>>>> different than that for which TCP is used.
>>>>>> I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case which
>> Bruno
>>>>> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that without
>> any
>>>>> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of
>> magnitude
>>>>> faster than it commonly does today.
>>>>>> This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly and
>> will not
>>>>> need "TCP".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the
>> address
>>>>> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something
>> which I
>>>>> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in environments
>> where
>>>>> multiple address family support is needed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't want to do either of the above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct -
>> and
>>>>> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more detail will
>> be
>>>>> required.
>>>>>> It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to ACK
>> faster -
>>>>> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
>>>>>> The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interval
>> is
>>>>> expressed in ISO 10589:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
>>>>>          > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
>>>>>          > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds
>>>>> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
>>>>> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude.
>> These
>>>>> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the
>> relationship
>>>>> between the two needs to remain the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly will result
>> in
>>>>> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and this
>> has
>>>>> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an
>> implementation
>>>>> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate should
>> also be
>>>>> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to be
>> smarter
>>>>> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-
>> ginsberg-lsr-
>>>>> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we aren't
>> aware
>>>>> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
>>>>>> What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still
>> considering.
>>>>> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the LAN
>> can
>>>>> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the
>> propagation
>>>>> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can
>> handle
>>>>> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed
>> throughout the
>>>>> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller
>> example
>>>>> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network support
>> faster
>>>>> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
>> faster
>>>>> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB
>> inconsistency.
>>>>> More work needs to be done here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do think
>> you
>>>>> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progress on
>> this
>>>>> topic,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanx.
>>>>>>
>>>>>      > Les
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
>>>>>>> To: lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the
>> sender
>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this
>> draft:
>>>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
>>>>>>> That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and ISIS
>>>>>>> flooding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms
>> to
>>>>>>> optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version of
>> TCP.
>>>>>>> I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP.
>>>>>>> But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does TCP do:
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from being
>>>>>>> overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-
>> size
>>>>>>> in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
>>>>>>> 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links
>> between
>>>>>>> sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an
>>>>> educated
>>>>>>> guess at what speed it can send.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The part we seem to be missing:
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it looks at
>>>>>>> how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the RTT
>> ?
>>>>>>> Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same
>> rate
>>>>>>> as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be
>> able
>>>>>>> to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can
>> send,
>>>>>>> without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do is
>> look
>>>>>>> at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of
>> PSNPs can
>>>>>>> not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>> send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter the
>>>>>>> PSNP,
>>>>>>> like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wait a
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will cause
>> the
>>>>>>> receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte. This
>>>>>>> is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
>>>>>>> fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The information
>>>>>>> a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less than
>> what
>>>>>>> TCP can learn from incoming acks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem with sender-side congestion control:
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
>>>>>>> seconds.
>>>>>>> And I think most implementations use that as the default. This
>> means
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
>>>>>>> seconds.
>>>>>>> For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
>>>>>>> whenever
>>>>>>> they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions
>> about
>>>>>>> flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
>>>>>>> There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This
>> makes
>>>>>>> a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait the
>>>>>>> full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about
>> dropped
>>>>>>> LSPs.
>>>>>>> If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it will
>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>> not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender
>> might
>>>>>>> send
>>>>>>> hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all
>> or
>>>>>>> partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in a
>>>>>>> multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-
>>>>> control
>>>>>>> algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a
>> more
>>>>>>> specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do
>>>>> PSNPs
>>>>>>> under load.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and
>> smaller)
>>>>>>> PSNPs.
>>>>>>> More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
>>>>>>> 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
>>>>>>> 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send
>> PSNPs
>>>>>>> 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
>>>>>>> receiving
>>>>>>> router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers on
>>>>>>> interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A
>> receiver
>>>>>>> can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an upper
>> bound
>>>>>>> to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
>>>>>>> flow-control
>>>>>>> window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.
>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe
>> only in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point
>> networks
>>>>>>> (LANs).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP
>> connections
>>>>>>> introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
>>>>>>> connections ?
>>>>>>> Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to the
>> DIS ?
>>>>>>> There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy
>> quickly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either.
>>>>>>> How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine
>>>>> whether
>>>>>>> there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume
>> most
>>>>>>> LSPs
>>>>>>> that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN.
>> There
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can send
>>>>>>> PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very
>> hard) to
>>>>>>> me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust
>> their
>>>>>>> sending speed accordingly..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.
>>>>> Because
>>>>>>> all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And
>> make
>>>>>>> sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm not
>> sure
>>>>>>> this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic than
>>>>>>> ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My conclusion:
>>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>> Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in
>> more
>>>>>>> detail how and when to send PSNPs.
>>>>>>> Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if it's
>>>>>>> good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good
>> enough.
>>>>>>> But it's a start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> henk.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>> __________________________________________________________
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>> __________________________________________________________
>> _____
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>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
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>> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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>>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>> __________________________________________________________
>> _____
>>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:31:44 -0700
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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This is not a simple let's-build-a-better-mechanism problem, this is an
epistemology problem and uneven information diffusion cannot be fixed by
magic when dealing with total distributed computation. Traditional
Link-state basically only works because we assume an epsilon consistently
(correct term for "eventual" consistency) with very small epsilon across
the whole topology. It used that epsilon in seconds was good, now epsilon
in hundreds of milliseconds is perceived problematic. If we start to build
things where the gradient varies across the network we will have unintended
consequences of distributed computation Les describes that cannot be wished
away so we better acknowledge them (diffusion is somewhat better unevent
gradient scenarios but @ cost of slower convergence under normal condition
pi times eye measure ;-).

A possible partial remediation to the problem is to prioritize flooding of
topology information over reachability (prefixes) but alas, in ISIS that's
not how the packets are laid out.

back to shelling peanuts ;-)

--- tony

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 11:19 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote=
:

> Les, maybe I am missing your point, but it sounds like what you are
> asking for is a (better?) version of the micro-loop prevention work, so
> as to mitigate the interaction between inconsistent convergence and
> fast-reroute?
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 5/6/2020 1:53 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> > Bruno -
> >
> > I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to understand each other. I
> am trying my best.
> >
> > Look at it this way:
> >
> > You are the customer. =F0=9F=98=8A
> > I am the vendor.
> >
> > The failure scenario I describe below happens and you notice that all
> Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever fast flooding is
> enabled.
> > I think you are going to complain about this - to me. =F0=9F=98=8A
> >
> > And I am going to tell you that this is a consequence of enabling fast
> flooding in the presence of a node which does not support it. Your option=
s
> to reduce the period of looping will be:
> >
> > 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flooding
> > 2)Disable fast flooding
> > 3)Redesign your network
> >
> >      Les
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM
> >> To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> >> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
> >>
> >>> From: Christian Hopps [mailto:chopps@chopps.org]
> >>>
> >>> Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.
> >>>
> >>> The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you have
> LSDB
> >> inconsistency.
> >>
> >> Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.
> >> I would even say: "The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP then
> you
> >> have LSDB inconsistency." But no big deal if there is disagreement on
> this
> >> detail.
> >>
> >>> That is going to last until the last node in the network has updated
> it's LSDB.
> >>
> >> Absolutely.
> >> So the faster we flood, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.
> >>
> >> Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood faster, there is a chance of
> >> shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in all cases, I don't see how
> this could
> >> make the LSDB inconsistency longer.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain
> >> circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.
> >>>
> >>> I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the operato=
r
> flag the
> >> broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS
> >> should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood
> around the
> >> problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).
> >>
> >> +1
> >> On a side note, I would not call a router flooding slowly as "broken".
> I find it
> >> understandable that in a given network there are different type of
> routers
> >> (core vs aggregation), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencies
> with 50 PEs
> >> vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware
> >> generations, different software, different vendors with different
> >> perspectives/markets.
> >>
> >> Thank you Chris.
> >>
> >> --Bruno
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Chris.
> >>> [as WG member]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Les,
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
> >>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> >>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> >>>>
> >>>> Bruno =E2=80=93
> >>>>
> >>>> I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
> >>>> The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB
> update
> >> time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
> >>>> [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB
> and IP
> >> packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
> >>>> I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
> >>>>
> >>>> Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points from
> the
> >> trigger event.
> >>>>
> >>>> T+ 2 seconds:
> >>>> -----------------
> >>>> B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all
> Northbound
> >> destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
> >>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plan=
e.
> >>>>
> >>>> D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and
> finds
> >> that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no
> changes
> >> to the forwarding plane.
> >>>>
> >>>> T+7 seconds
> >>>> -----------------
> >>>> B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations =
is
> >> being forwarded via D.
> >>>>
> >>>> D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its
> forwarding
> >> plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
> >>>>
> >>>> We have a loop.
> >>>>
> >>>> T + 30 seconds
> >>>> --------------------
> >>>> D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to
> its
> >> forwarding plane.
> >>>> Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
> >>>>
> >>>> T+ 50 seconds
> >>>> -------------------
> >>>> D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
> >>>> It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound
> destinations
> >> via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
> >>>> Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..
> >>>>
> >>>> T + 55 seconds
> >>>> --------------------
> >>>> D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more looping.
> >>>>
> >>>> That is all I am trying to illustrate.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop
> >> avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the example
> for
> >> simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to inclu=
de
> multiple node
> >> failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on other
> nodes.
> >>>> [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to m=
icroloops
> >> avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so includin=
g
> >> multiple node failures.
> >>>>
> >>>> But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.=
 (you are
> the
> >> one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
> >>>>
> >>>> The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB
> inconsistency
> >> which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude
> >> faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked me =
to
> clarify.
> >>>> [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster
> flooding
> >> could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> >>>>
> >>>> Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the netw=
ork
> >> support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be
> >> "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the perio=
d
> of
> >> LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
> >>>> And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network su=
pport
> >> faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsiste=
ncy.=E2=80=9D
> >>>>
> >>>> --Bruno
> >>>>
> >>>>     Les
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
> >>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> >>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> >>>>
> >>>> Les,
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
> >>>> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
> >>>> Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
> >>>>
> >>>> Bruno -
> >>>>
> >>>> Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in
> person.
> >> Ahhh...the good old days...
> >>>> [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
> >>>>
> >>>> First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or
> even a
> >> small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
> >>>> The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
> >> thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are n=
ot
> >> applicable.
> >>>>
> >>>> Take the following simple topology:
> >>>>
> >>>>     |  | ... |            |
> >>>>       +---+             +---+
> >>>>       | C |             | E |
> >>>>       +---+             +---+
> >>>>         |                 | 1000
> >>>>       +---+             +---+
> >>>>       | B |-------------| D |
> >>>>       +---+   1000      +---+
> >>>>         |                 |
> >>>>         |                 |
> >>>>          \               /
> >>>>           \            /
> >>>>            \         /
> >>>>             \      /
> >>>>               +---+
> >>>>               | A |
> >>>>               +---+
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology
> >> southbound of A (not shown).
> >>>> Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
> >>>>
> >>>> C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
> >>>> When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations
> is via
> >> C.
> >>>> All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
> >>>> Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding=
 (Node D)
> is 20
> >> LSPs/seconds.
> >>>> If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
> >>>> All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internod=
e
> >> delay time).
> >>>> D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
> >>>>
> >>>> [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.
> >>>>
> >>>> When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP
> >> updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via
> D.
> >>>> But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all
> LSP
> >> updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop
> traffic.
> >>>>
> >>>> [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in
> order to
> >> sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It doe=
s
> not
> >> including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.
> >>>>
> >>>> Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support fas=
ter
> >> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
> faster
> >> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB
> inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
> >>>>
> >>>> Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast
> flooding;
> >> all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y
> is 50
> >> seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my questions:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
> >> behavior
> >>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
> >> enabled
> >>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding
> >> rate on
> >>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
> >>>>> network?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50
> seconds to
> >> converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could b=
e
> a
> >> good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
> >>>> [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates across t=
he
> >> network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across
> the
> >> path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates =
to
> >> LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread,
> I=E2=80=99d
> >> suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)
> >>>> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976
> >>>> (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread if y=
ou
> >> want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than
> oFIB.
> >> But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSPs
> are
> >> involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)
> >>>>
> >>>> --Bruno
> >>>>
> >>>> One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific t=
opology
> >> and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged
> in the
> >> face of inconsistent flooding speed support.
> >>>> But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
> >>>>
> >>>>      Les
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
> >>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>> Subject: Flooding across a network
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Les,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
> >>>>> (ginsberg)
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> >>>>> [...]
> >>>>>> when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the
> >> behavior
> >>>>> of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding is
> >> enabled
> >>>>> because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1) Do you have data on this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the flooding
> >> rate on
> >>>>> one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across the
> >>>>> network?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simple
> >> scenario
> >>>>> where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to th=
e
> >> adjacent
> >>>>> node j. Clearly Dij>0.
> >>>>> - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all nodes
> but k
> >> are
> >>>>> missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric
> between
> >>>>> adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k
> to i; and
> >>>>> D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seems that the time needed:
> >>>>> - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is
> D(k,j)
> >>>>> - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and get
> in sync
> >> with
> >>>>> k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could
> >> prolongs
> >>>>> the period of LSDB inconsistency?
> >>>>> It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, thi=
s
> >> would
> >>>>> mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of th=
e
> >> shortest
> >>>>> path.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as  multiple LSPs
> >> originated by
> >>>>> the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, but
> >> let's start
> >>>>> with the simple case.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> --Bruno
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
> >>>>> (ginsberg)
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Henk -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
> >>>>>> I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decided =
to
> >> reply to
> >>>>> this one.
> >>>>>> Top posting for better readability.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
> >>>>>> There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - neith=
er
> >> of
> >>>>> which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are
> >> significantly
> >>>>> different than that for which TCP is used.
> >>>>>> I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test case
> which
> >> Bruno
> >>>>> reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that withou=
t
> >> any
> >>>>> changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order of
> >> magnitude
> >>>>> faster than it commonly does today.
> >>>>>> This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly an=
d
> >> will not
> >>>>> need "TCP".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the
> >> address
> >>>>> families whose reachability advertisements it supports - something
> >> which I
> >>>>> think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in
> environments
> >> where
> >>>>> multiple address family support is needed
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I really don't want to do either of the above.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct -
> >> and
> >>>>> both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more
> detail will
> >> be
> >>>>> required.
> >>>>>> It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need to
> ACK
> >> faster -
> >>>>> and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
> >>>>>> The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP interv=
al
> >> is
> >>>>> expressed in ISO 10589:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> " partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between periodic
> >>>>>          > action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
> >>>>>          > It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds
> >>>>> respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
> >>>>> implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitude=
.
> >> These
> >>>>> numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the
> >> relationship
> >>>>> between the two needs to remain the same.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly
> will result
> >> in
> >>>>> additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - and
> this
> >> has
> >>>>> some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an
> >> implementation
> >>>>> which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate shoul=
d
> >> also be
> >>>>> able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to b=
e
> >> smarter
> >>>>> than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft-
> >> ginsberg-lsr-
> >>>>> isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we
> aren't
> >> aware
> >>>>> of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
> >>>>>> What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still
> >> considering.
> >>>>> Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the L=
AN
> >> can
> >>>>> support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the
> >> propagation
> >>>>> rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can
> >> handle
> >>>>> faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed
> >> throughout the
> >>>>> network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smaller
> >> example
> >>>>> of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network suppor=
t
> >> faster
> >>>>> flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
> >> faster
> >>>>> flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB
> >> inconsistency.
> >>>>> More work needs to be done here...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In summary, I don't expect to have to "reinvent TCP" - but I do
> think
> >> you
> >>>>> have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progres=
s
> on
> >> this
> >>>>> topic,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanx.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>      > Les
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
> >>>>>>> To: lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm on the
> >> sender
> >>>>> isn't
> >>>>>>> enough
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this
> >> draft:
> >>>>>>>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00
> >>>>>>> That started this discussion about flow/congestion control and IS=
IS
> >>>>>>> flooding.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorithms
> >> to
> >>>>>>> optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own version o=
f
> >> TCP.
> >>>>>>> I think most people here have a good general understanding of TCP=
.
> >>>>>>> But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What does TCP do:
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself from
> being
> >>>>>>> overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-window-
> >> size
> >>>>>>> in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive.
> >>>>>>> 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the links
> >> between
> >>>>>>> sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes an
> >>>>> educated
> >>>>>>> guess at what speed it can send.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The part we seem to be missing:
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> For the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, it look=
s
> at
> >>>>>>> how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops ? What is the R=
TT
> >> ?
> >>>>>>> Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks come in at the same
> >> rate
> >>>>>>> as the sender sends segments ? Are there duplicate acks ? To be
> >> able
> >>>>>>> to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks behave.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it can
> >> send,
> >>>>>>> without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can do i=
s
> >> look
> >>>>>>> at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of
> >> PSNPs can
> >>>>>>> not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not
> >>>>>>> immediately
> >>>>>>> send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the receiver should jitter
> the
> >>>>>>> PSNP,
> >>>>>>> like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should wai=
t
> a
> >>>>>>> little
> >>>>>>> to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP packet.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will caus=
e
> >> the
> >>>>>>> receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received byte.
> This
> >>>>>>> is called "duplicate acks". This triggers the sender to do
> >>>>>>> fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The
> information
> >>>>>>> a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less tha=
n
> >> what
> >>>>>>> TCP can learn from incoming acks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval is 5
> >>>>>>> seconds.
> >>>>>>> And I think most implementations use that as the default. This
> >> means
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP within 5
> >>>>>>> seconds.
> >>>>>>> For the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs however and
> >>>>>>> whenever
> >>>>>>> they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusions
> >> about
> >>>>>>> flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> >>>>>>> There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs. This
> >> makes
> >>>>>>> a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wait th=
e
> >>>>>>> full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about
> >> dropped
> >>>>>>> LSPs.
> >>>>>>> If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, it wi=
ll
> >>>>>>> probably
> >>>>>>> not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A sender
> >> might
> >>>>>>> send
> >>>>>>> hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might all
> >> or
> >>>>>>> partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like that in=
 a
> >>>>>>> multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congestion-
> >>>>> control
> >>>>>>> algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiver a
> >> more
> >>>>>>> specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how to do
> >>>>> PSNPs
> >>>>>>> under load.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and
> >> smaller)
> >>>>>>> PSNPs.
> >>>>>>> More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Will receiver-side flow-control work ?
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> >>>>>>> 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> >>>>>>> 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send
> >> PSNPs
> >>>>>>> 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on the
> >>>>>>> receiving
> >>>>>>> router can actually know if its running out of resources (buffers
> on
> >>>>>>> interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent. A
> >> receiver
> >>>>>>> can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an uppe=
r
> >> bound
> >>>>>>> to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both a
> >>>>>>> flow-control
> >>>>>>> window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses both.
> >>>>> Maybe
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe
> >> only in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP):
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point
> >> networks
> >>>>>>> (LANs).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP
> >> connections
> >>>>>>> introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the TCP
> >>>>>>> connections ?
> >>>>>>> Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connection to th=
e
> >> DIS ?
> >>>>>>> There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). Things get messy
> >> quickly.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem either=
.
> >>>>>>> How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determine
> >>>>> whether
> >>>>>>> there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We assume
> >> most
> >>>>>>> LSPs
> >>>>>>> that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LAN.
> >> There
> >>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>> no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes can
> send
> >>>>>>> PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or very
> >> hard) to
> >>>>>>> me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and adjust
> >> their
> >>>>>>> sending speed accordingly..
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems best.
> >>>>> Because
> >>>>>>> all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is. And
> >> make
> >>>>>>> sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS. I'm no=
t
> >> sure
> >>>>>>> this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realistic
> than
> >>>>>>> ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My conclusion:
> >>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>>>>>> Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying in
> >> more
> >>>>>>> detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> >>>>>>> Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know if
> it's
> >>>>>>> good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is good
> >> enough.
> >>>>>>> But it's a start.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker) TCP=
.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> henk.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Lsr mailing list
> >>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Lsr mailing list
> >>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >>>>>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >>>>> _____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> >>>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> >>>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
> avez
> >> recu ce
> >>>>> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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> messages
> >>>>> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> >>>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere,
> >> deforme ou
> >>>>> falsifie. Merci.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
> privileged
> >>>>> information that may be protected by law;
> >>>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisatio=
n.
> >>>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender
> and
> >> delete
> >>>>> this message and its attachments.
> >>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that ha=
ve
> >> been
> >>>>> modified, changed or falsified.
> >>>>> Thank you.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> _____
> >>>>
> >>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> >>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
> avez recu
> >> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> >>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
> messages
> >> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> >>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere,
> deforme
> >> ou falsifie. Merci.
> >>>>
> >>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
> privileged
> >> information that may be protected by law;
> >>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation=
.
> >>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender a=
nd
> >> delete this message and its attachments.
> >>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that hav=
e
> >> been modified, changed or falsified.
> >>>> Thank you.
> >>>>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> _____
> >>>>
> >>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> >>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous
> avez recu
> >> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> >>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les
> messages
> >> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> >>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere,
> deforme
> >> ou falsifie. Merci.
> >>>>
> >>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or
> privileged
> >> information that may be protected by law;
> >>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation=
.
> >>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender a=
nd
> >> delete this message and its attachments.
> >>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that hav=
e
> >> been modified, changed or falsified.
> >>>> Thank you.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Lsr mailing list
> >>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> __________________________________________________________
> >> _____
> >>
> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez
> recu ce
> >> message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es
> >> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e
> ou
> >> falsifie. Merci.
> >>
> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d
> >> information that may be protected by law;
> >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
> delete
> >> this message and its attachments.
> >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have
> been
> >> modified, changed or falsified.
> >> Thank you.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This is not a simple let&#39;s-build-a-better-mechani=
sm problem, this is an epistemology problem and uneven information diffusio=
n cannot be fixed by magic when dealing with total distributed computation.=
 Traditional Link-state basically only works because we assume an epsilon c=
onsistently (correct term for &quot;eventual&quot; consistency) with very s=
mall epsilon across the whole topology. It used that epsilon in seconds was=
 good, now epsilon in hundreds of milliseconds is perceived problematic. If=
 we start to build things where the gradient varies across the network we w=
ill have unintended consequences of distributed computation Les describes t=
hat cannot be wished away so we better acknowledge them (diffusion is somew=
hat better unevent gradient scenarios but @ cost of slower convergence unde=
r normal condition pi times eye measure ;-). <br></div><div><br></div><div>=
A possible partial remediation to the problem is to prioritize flooding of =
topology information over reachability (prefixes) but alas, in ISIS that&#3=
9;s not how the packets are laid out.<br></div><div><br></div><div>back to =
shelling peanuts ;-) <br></div><div><br></div><div>--- tony <br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On We=
d, May 6, 2020 at 11:19 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelha=
lpern.com">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Les, maybe I am missing your point, but it so=
unds like what you are <br>
asking for is a (better?) version of the micro-loop prevention work, so <br=
>
as to mitigate the interaction between inconsistent convergence and <br>
fast-reroute?<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 5/6/2020 1:53 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:<br>
&gt; Bruno -<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to understand each other. I=
 am trying my best.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Look at it this way:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; You are the customer. =F0=9F=98=8A<br>
&gt; I am the vendor.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The failure scenario I describe below happens and you notice that all =
Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever fast flooding is enabl=
ed.<br>
&gt; I think you are going to complain about this - to me. =F0=9F=98=8A<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; And I am going to tell you that this is a consequence of enabling fast=
 flooding in the presence of a node which does not support it. Your options=
 to reduce the period of looping will be:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flooding<br>
&gt; 2)Disable fast flooding<br>
&gt; 3)Redesign your network<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orang=
e.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; To: Christian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Christian Hopps [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.=
org" target=3D"_blank">chopps@chopps.org</a>]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental he=
re.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it yo=
u have LSDB<br>
&gt;&gt; inconsistency.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.<br>
&gt;&gt; I would even say: &quot;The minute the LSP originator changes the =
LSP then you<br>
&gt;&gt; have LSDB inconsistency.&quot; But no big deal if there is disagre=
ement on this<br>
&gt;&gt; detail.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; That is going to last until the last node in the network has u=
pdated it&#39;s LSDB.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Absolutely.<br>
&gt;&gt; So the faster we flood, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood faster, there is a chanc=
e of<br>
&gt;&gt; shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in all cases, I don&#39;t s=
ee how this could<br>
&gt;&gt; make the LSDB inconsistency longer.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in cert=
ain<br>
&gt;&gt; circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsiste=
nt.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the =
operator flag the<br>
&gt;&gt; broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-=
IS<br>
&gt;&gt; should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood =
around the<br>
&gt;&gt; problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; +1<br>
&gt;&gt; On a side note, I would not call a router flooding slowly as &quot=
;broken&quot;. I find it<br>
&gt;&gt; understandable that in a given network there are different type of=
 routers<br>
&gt;&gt; (core vs aggregation), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencie=
s with 50 PEs<br>
&gt;&gt; vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware<=
br>
&gt;&gt; generations, different software, different vendors with different<=
br>
&gt;&gt; perspectives/markets.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thank you Chris.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --Bruno<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Chris.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; [as WG member]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decra=
ene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Les,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gi=
nsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@=
ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a network<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bruno =E2=80=93<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The example is straightforward and does not need to consid=
er FIB update<br>
&gt;&gt; time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referri=
ng to FIB and IP<br>
&gt;&gt; packets forwarding as per those FIBs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consist=
ency.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time po=
ints from the<br>
&gt;&gt; trigger event.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T+ 2 seconds:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for=
 all Northbound<br>
&gt;&gt; destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.<b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwa=
rding plane.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an =
SPF and finds<br>
&gt;&gt; that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes n=
o changes<br>
&gt;&gt; to the forwarding plane.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T+7 seconds<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound des=
tinations is<br>
&gt;&gt; being forwarded via D.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in=
 its forwarding<br>
&gt;&gt; plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We have a loop.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T + 30 seconds<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no c=
hanges to its<br>
&gt;&gt; forwarding plane.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T+ 50 seconds<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbou=
nd destinations<br>
&gt;&gt; via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; T + 55 seconds<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --------------------<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more=
 looping.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That is all I am trying to illustrate.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + m=
icroloop<br>
&gt;&gt; avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly=C2=A0 took those out of th=
e example for<br>
&gt;&gt; simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to i=
nclude multiple node<br>
&gt;&gt; failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on o=
ther nodes.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with re=
gards to microloops<br>
&gt;&gt; avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so incl=
uding<br>
&gt;&gt; multiple node failures.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB co=
nsistency. (you are the<br>
&gt;&gt; one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB=
 inconsistency<br>
&gt;&gt; which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitu=
de<br>
&gt;&gt; faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked=
 me to clarify.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with =
faster flooding<br>
&gt;&gt; could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes i=
n the network<br>
&gt;&gt; support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not =
be<br>
&gt;&gt; &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is enabled because it prol=
ongs the period of<br>
&gt;&gt; LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the =
network support<br>
&gt;&gt; faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs the period of LSDB i=
nconsistency.=E2=80=9D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --Bruno<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Les<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decra=
ene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@=
ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a network<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Les,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gi=
nsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a network<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bruno -<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing=
 this in person.<br>
&gt;&gt; Ahhh...the good old days...<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Ind=
eed.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; First, let&#39;s agree that the interesting case does not =
involve 1 or even a<br>
&gt;&gt; small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matt=
er.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hund=
reds or<br>
&gt;&gt; thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques a=
re not<br>
&gt;&gt; applicable.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Take the following simple topology:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 | ... |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| C |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| E |<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 1000<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| B |-------------| D |<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---+=C2=A0 =C2=A01000=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 +---+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 \=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0\=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 \=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0\=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 /<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---=
+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| A =
|<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---=
+<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and =
a topology<br>
&gt;&gt; southbound of A (not shown).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is h=
igh.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; C is a node with 1000 neighbors.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound de=
stinations is via<br>
&gt;&gt; C.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for =
Node D.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slo=
w flooding (Node D) is 20<br>
&gt;&gt; LSPs/seconds.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If=C2=A0 Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plu=
s internode<br>
&gt;&gt; delay time).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the =
LSP<br>
&gt;&gt; updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations=
 via D.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to r=
eceive all LSP<br>
&gt;&gt; updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will =
loop traffic.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS floo=
ding in order to<br>
&gt;&gt; sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It=
 does not<br>
&gt;&gt; including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network s=
upport faster<br>
&gt;&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be &quot;better=
&quot; when faster<br>
&gt;&gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsi=
stency.=E2=80=9D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support=
 fast flooding;<br>
&gt;&gt; all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB inconsis=
tency is 50<br>
&gt;&gt; seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.<br=
>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my questions:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; when only some nodes in the network support faster=
 flooding the<br>
&gt;&gt; behavior<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; whe=
n faster flooding is<br>
&gt;&gt; enabled<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<=
br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing=
 the flooding<br>
&gt;&gt; rate on<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y across the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have take=
n 50 seconds to<br>
&gt;&gt; converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There cou=
ld be a<br>
&gt;&gt; good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB update=
s across the<br>
&gt;&gt; network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency acr=
oss the<br>
&gt;&gt; path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this transla=
tes to<br>
&gt;&gt; LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thre=
ad, I=E2=80=99d<br>
&gt;&gt; suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different t=
hread if you<br>
&gt;&gt; want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better tha=
n oFIB.<br>
&gt;&gt; But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple =
LSPs are<br>
&gt;&gt; involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --Bruno<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a =
specific topology<br>
&gt;&gt; and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchan=
ged in the<br>
&gt;&gt; face of inconsistent flooding speed support.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.<b=
r>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.de=
craene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gins=
berg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Flooding across a network<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Les,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Lsr [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsbe=
rg<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ginsberg)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [...]<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; when only some nodes in the network support faster=
 flooding the<br>
&gt;&gt; behavior<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of the whole network may not be &quot;better&quot; whe=
n faster flooding is<br>
&gt;&gt; enabled<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.<=
br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Do you have data on this?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing=
 the flooding<br>
&gt;&gt; rate on<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistenc=
y across the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) In the meantime, let&#39;s try the theoretical anal=
ysis on a simple<br>
&gt;&gt; scenario<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the netw=
ork.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Let&#39;s call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP =
from node i to the<br>
&gt;&gt; adjacent<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Let&#39;s call k the node originating this LSP at t0=
=3D0s<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the netwo=
rk as all nodes but k<br>
&gt;&gt; are<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know about the &#39;old=
&#39; topology.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Let&#39;s call=C2=A0 SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using=
 Dij as the metric between<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let&#39;s call SP(k,i) the sho=
rtest path from k to i; and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems that the time needed:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync w=
ith k, is D(k,j)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - for all nodes across the network to learn about the =
LSP, and get in sync<br>
&gt;&gt; with<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; k, is Max[for all j] D(k,j)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjace=
ncy could<br>
&gt;&gt; prolongs<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. O=
therwise, this<br>
&gt;&gt; would<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase t=
he cost of the<br>
&gt;&gt; shortest<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; path.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as=C2=
=A0 multiple LSPs<br>
&gt;&gt; originated by<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multipl=
e nodes, but<br>
&gt;&gt; let&#39;s start<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with the simple case.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; --Bruno<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Lsr [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsbe=
rg<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (ginsberg)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Henk -<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanx for your thoughtful posts.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have read your later posts on this thread as wel=
l - but decided to<br>
&gt;&gt; reply to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this one.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Top posting for better readability.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is broad agreement that faster flooding is d=
esirable.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There are now two proposals as to how to address t=
he issue - neither<br>
&gt;&gt; of<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirement=
s are<br>
&gt;&gt; significantly<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different than that for which TCP is used.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think it is also useful to note that even the si=
mple test case which<br>
&gt;&gt; Bruno<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reported on in last week&#39;s interim meeting demonst=
rated that without<br>
&gt;&gt; any<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood=
 an order of<br>
&gt;&gt; magnitude<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; faster than it commonly does today.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This gives me hope that we are looking at the prob=
lem correctly and<br>
&gt;&gt; will not<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; need &quot;TCP&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Introducing a TCP based solution requires:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic<=
br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protoco=
l from the<br>
&gt;&gt; address<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; families whose reachability advertisements it supports=
 - something<br>
&gt;&gt; which I<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; think is a great strength of the protocol - particular=
ly in environments<br>
&gt;&gt; where<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multiple address family support is needed<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I really don&#39;t want to do either of the above.=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Your comments regarding PSNP response times are qu=
ite correct -<br>
&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I ag=
ree more detail will<br>
&gt;&gt; be<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; required.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster y=
ou also need to ACK<br>
&gt;&gt; faster -<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and probably even retransmit faster when that is neede=
d.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The basic relationship between retransmit interval=
 and PSNP interval<br>
&gt;&gt; is<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot; partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of =
time between periodic<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; action for tran=
smission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; It shall be les=
s than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds =
and 5 seconds<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; respectively) associated with a much slower flooding r=
ate and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; implementations I am aware of use values in this order=
 of magnitude.<br>
&gt;&gt; These<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, =
but the<br>
&gt;&gt; relationship<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; between the two needs to remain the same.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs=
 more quickly will result<br>
&gt;&gt; in<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by=
 IS-IS - and this<br>
&gt;&gt; has<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect th=
at an<br>
&gt;&gt; implementation<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a fast=
er rate should<br>
&gt;&gt; also be<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we st=
ill need to be<br>
&gt;&gt; smarter<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a=
 burst.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and t=
hus far draft-<br>
&gt;&gt; ginsberg-lsr-<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not =
because we aren&#39;t<br>
&gt;&gt; aware<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What the best behavior on a LAN may be is somethin=
g I am still<br>
&gt;&gt; considering.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowes=
t IS on the LAN<br>
&gt;&gt; can<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; support may not be the best strategy - as it also slow=
s down the<br>
&gt;&gt; propagation<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN =
which can<br>
&gt;&gt; handle<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding=
 speed<br>
&gt;&gt; throughout the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; network in a way which may be out of proportion. This =
is a smaller<br>
&gt;&gt; example<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the n=
etwork support<br>
&gt;&gt; faster<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be =
&quot;better&quot; when<br>
&gt;&gt; faster<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of =
LSDB<br>
&gt;&gt; inconsistency.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; More work needs to be done here...<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In summary, I don&#39;t expect to have to &quot;re=
invent TCP&quot; - but I do think<br>
&gt;&gt; you<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; have provided a useful perspective for us to consider =
as we progress on<br>
&gt;&gt; this<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; topic,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanx.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Les<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On Behalf Of Henk Sm=
it<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [Lsr] Why only a congestion-avoidance=
 algorithm on the<br>
&gt;&gt; sender<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; isn&#39;t<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; enough<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello all,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself =
published this<br>
&gt;&gt; draft:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-h=
smit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; That started this discussion about flow/conges=
tion control and ISIS<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flooding.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; My thoughts were that once we start implementi=
ng new algorithms<br>
&gt;&gt; to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; optimize ISIS flooding speed, we&#39;ll end up=
 with our own version of<br>
&gt;&gt; TCP.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think most people here have a good general u=
nderstanding of TCP.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But if not, this is a good overview how TCP do=
es it:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_c=
ongestion_control" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedi=
a.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_control</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What does TCP do:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion=
 control.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) Flow control is: the receiver trying to pre=
vent itself from being<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; overloaded. The receiver indicates, through th=
e receiver-window-<br>
&gt;&gt; size<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants=
 to receive.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to=
 prevent the links<br>
&gt;&gt; between<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sender and receiver from being overloaded. The=
 sender makes an<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; educated<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; guess at what speed it can send.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The part we seem to be missing:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For the sender to make a guess at what speed i=
t can send, it looks at<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; how the transmission is behaving. Are there dr=
ops ? What is the RTT<br>
&gt;&gt; ?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Do drop-percentage and RTT change ? Do acks co=
me in at the same<br>
&gt;&gt; rate<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as the sender sends segments ? Are there dupli=
cate acks ? To be<br>
&gt;&gt; able<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to do this, the sender must know what to expec=
t. How acks behave.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at =
what speed it can<br>
&gt;&gt; send,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; without changing the protocol, the only thing =
the sender can do is<br>
&gt;&gt; look<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver.=
 But the RTT of<br>
&gt;&gt; PSNPs can<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implemen=
tation does not<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; immediately<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; send a PSNP when it receives a LSP. 1) the rec=
eiver should jitter the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSNP,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the =
receiver should wait a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; little<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to see if it can combine multiple acks into a =
single PSNP packet.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each ne=
w segment will cause<br>
&gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the =
last received byte. This<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is called &quot;duplicate acks&quot;. This tri=
ggers the sender to do<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can&#39;t b=
e be done. The information<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNP=
s is a lot less than<br>
&gt;&gt; what<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TCP can learn from incoming acks.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The problem with sender-side congestion contro=
l:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In ISIS, all we know is that the default retra=
nsmit-interval is 5<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; seconds.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; And I think most implementations use that as t=
he default. This<br>
&gt;&gt; means<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: se=
nd a PSNP within 5<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; seconds.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For the rest, implementations are free to send=
 PSNPs however and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whenever<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they want. This means a sender can not really =
make conclusions<br>
&gt;&gt; about<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the =
receiver, etc.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or se=
nding PSNPs. This<br>
&gt;&gt; makes<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When you think about it, you realize that a se=
nder should wait the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; full 5 seconds before it can make any real con=
clusions about<br>
&gt;&gt; dropped<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its fl=
ooding speed, it will<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; probably<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to react without a delay of a few =
seconds. A sender<br>
&gt;&gt; might<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; send<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 secon=
ds, which might all<br>
&gt;&gt; or<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; partially be dropped, complicating matters eve=
n further.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to=
 do PSNPs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So imho a sender-side only algorithm can&#39;t=
 work just like that in a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; multi-vendor environment. We must not only spe=
cify a congestion-<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; control<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; algorithm for the sender. We must also specify=
 for the receiver a<br>
&gt;&gt; more<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs.=
 At least how to do<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSNPs<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; under load.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Note that this might result in the receiver se=
nding more (and<br>
&gt;&gt; smaller)<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSNPs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; More packets might mean more congestion (insid=
e routers).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Will receiver-side flow-control work ?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I don&#39;t know if that&#39;s enough. It will=
 certainly help.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 part=
s:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm<br=
>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when an=
d how to send<br>
&gt;&gt; PSNPs<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As discussed at length, I don&#39;t know if th=
e ISIS process on the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receiving<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; router can actually know if its running out of=
 resources (buffers on<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces, linecards, etc). That&#39;s implem=
entation dependent. A<br>
&gt;&gt; receiver<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the=
 sender has an upper<br>
&gt;&gt; bound<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to use when doing congestion-control. Just lik=
e TCP has both a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flow-control<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; window and a congestion-control window, and a =
sender uses both.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Maybe<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. M=
aybe now, maybe<br>
&gt;&gt; only in<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; future. An advertised upper limit seems useful=
 to me today.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What I didn&#39;t like about our own proposal =
(flooding over TCP):<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The problem I saw with flooding over TCP conce=
rns multi-point<br>
&gt;&gt; networks<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (LANs).<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When flooding over a multi-point network, sett=
ing up TCP<br>
&gt;&gt; connections<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; introduces serious challenges. Who are the end=
points of the TCP<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; connections ?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Full mesh ? Or do all ISes on a LAN create a T=
CP-connection to the<br>
&gt;&gt; DIS ?<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSPF). =
Things get messy<br>
&gt;&gt; quickly.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; However, the other two proposals do not solve =
this problem either.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence al=
gorithm determine<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; whether<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; there were drops ? There are no acks (PSNPs) o=
n a LAN. We assume<br>
&gt;&gt; most<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that are broadcasted are received by all other=
 ISes on the LAN.<br>
&gt;&gt; There<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its perio=
dic CSNPs, ISes can send<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems imp=
ossible (or very<br>
&gt;&gt; hard) to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of drop=
ped LSPs and adjust<br>
&gt;&gt; their<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sending speed accordingly..<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algo=
rithm seems best.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Because<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; all ISes can see what the lowest advertised se=
nding-speed is. And<br>
&gt;&gt; make<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure they send slow enough to not overload the=
 slowest IS. I&#39;m not<br>
&gt;&gt; sure<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a good solution, but is seems easier a=
nd more realistic than<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congesti=
on-avoidance.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; My conclusion:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sender-side congestion-control won&#39;t work =
without specifying in<br>
&gt;&gt; more<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; detail how and when to send PSNPs.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help=
. I dont&#39; know if it&#39;s<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; good enough. I don&#39;t know if advertising a=
 static value is good<br>
&gt;&gt; enough.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; But it&#39;s a start.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I still think we&#39;ll end up re-implementing=
 a new (and weaker) TCP.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; henk.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ______________________________________________=
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From: Mitchell Erblich <erblichs@earthlink.net>
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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:57:52 -0700
Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Robert,

		I agree with you=E2=80=A6

		Disruptions based on protocol changes with =
non-current/legacy type products and/or intenal black-hole , loss of =
packets/rexmits, aka reliability should be primary.  Even good/great =
ideas of IPv4 / IPv6 intermediate systems/routers find small =
incompatibilities either with the protocol and/or CLI errors.

		With that said, I definitely like the OSPF DR/BDR =
functionality in Eth/multi-access/non-p2p environments for single router =
failures IMO adds reliability and mitigates certain types of =
disruptions.

		However, with wireless devices, one must still respect =
that bottlenecks need to be resolved when dealing with these slower/down =
ward scaling environments. This is just not just a packet-per-sec / =
bytes-per-second issue but frequently are smaller packet/segment sizes , =
a scaling of the number of simultaneous connections, and loss of =
packets/segments in these newer environments

		And, sorry, Eth is there with 100Gb and LACP exists, =
that will eventually push upward scaling proposals.

	=09
Mitchell Erblich
erblichs@earthlink.net



> On May 6, 2020, at 12:52 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> Christian,
>=20
> It is not about "hand-wringing and theorizing about being =
too-successful".=20
>=20
> It is about impact to the overall network service when you make ISIS =
convergence not consistent across nodes of the topology, I think our =
goal is not to converge ISIS faster by improving flooding speed .... it =
is much more about how to deliver user packets with minimal disruption =
upon topology changes.=20
>=20
> Best,
> R.
>=20
> On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 5:48 AM Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> =
wrote:
> [as WG member]
>=20
> I think it would be more productive if we stay focused on trying to =
improve flooding speed/efficiency here. How about let's get some of the =
proposals being mulled over actually written, and provide some data, and =
leave all the hand-wringing and theorizing about being too-successful =
for after we've shown we could be? :)
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>=20
>=20
> > On May 5, 2020, at 8:03 PM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
> >=20
> > But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is =
rather a good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.=20=

> >=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 21:41:38 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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--5eb39187_3f07acc3_2480
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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Robert,

Assuming C and E provide access to the same set of destinations, that are=
 closer of further away from C and E.
B (which is fast), after it notifies A that it can=E2=80=99t reach C dire=
ctly will cause A to send traffic to D. D - dependent on total cost would=
 start happily sending some traffic towards destinations behind C to B so=
 L=46A on B wouldn=E2=80=99t really help.

Cheers,
Jeff
On May 5, 2020, 5:04 PM -0700, Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wrote=
:
> Hi Les,
>
> A side comment but your example shows another - one may say even much m=
ore serious issue.
>
> Assume we have L=46A/TI-L=46A enabled in the network and precomputed on=
 B which get's activated and shifts traffic to E when detects that C is d=
own. Detection is fast .. 10s-100s of milliseconds.
>
> Now if B converges fast and recomputes topology much faster then D it m=
ay remove protection and send packets to D natively. Well clearly as we e=
stablished D is slow and will loop it back.
>
> That is why I mentioned the other day that a fast control plane is not =
always a good thing (I am sure many will say the opposite - but it is ok =
;).
>
> But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rather =
a good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.
>
> Best,
> Robert.
>
>
>
> > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:35 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40=
cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> > > Bruno -
> > >
> > > Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in =
person.=C2=A0 Ahhh...the good old days...
> > >
> > > =46irst, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 o=
r even a small number of LSPs. =46or those cases flooding speed does not =
matter.
> > > The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or t=
housands). And in such cases L=46A/microloop avoidance techniques are not=
 applicable.
> > >
> > > Take the following simple topology:
> > >
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=C2=A0 =7C ... =7C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C C =7C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C E =7C
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C=
 1000
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C B =7C-------------=7C D =7C
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+ =C2=A0=C2=A01000=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0=C2=A0+---+
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=

> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =7C=

> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =5C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =5C=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =5C=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =5C=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 +---+
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =7C A =7C
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 +---+
> > >
> > > There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topolog=
y southbound of A (not shown).
> > > Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
> > >
> > > C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
> > > When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destination=
s is via C.
> > > All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
> > > Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow floodin=
g (Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.
> > > If =C2=A0Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
> > > All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus interno=
de delay time).
> > > D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
> > >
> > > When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updat=
es they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.
> > > But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive al=
l LSP updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will l=
oop traffic.
> > >
> > > Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seco=
nds to converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There cou=
ld be a good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
> > >
> > > One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific =
topology and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unch=
anged in the face of inconsistent flooding speed support.
> > > But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
> > >
> > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > =46rom: bruno.decraene=40orange.com <bruno.decraene=40orange.com>=

> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
> > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com>; lsr=40ietf.or=
g
> > > > Subject: =46looding across a network
> > > >
> > > > Les,
> > > >
> > > > > =46rom: Lsr =5Bmailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg
> > > > (ginsberg)
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> > > > =5B...=5D
> > > > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding the=
 behavior
> > > > of the whole network may not be =22better=22 when faster flooding=
 is enabled
> > > > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Do you have data on this=3F
> > > >
> > > > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the floodi=
ng rate on
> > > > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across th=
e
> > > > network=3F
> > > >
> > > > 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simpl=
e scenario
> > > > where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
> > > >
> > > > - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to =
the adjacent
> > > > node j. Clearly Dij>0.
> > > > - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
> > > >
> > > > >=46rom t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all no=
des but k are
> > > > missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
> > > >
> > > > Let's call=C2=A0 SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the met=
ric between
> > > > adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from=
 k to i; and
> > > > D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i..
> > > >
> > > > It seems that the time needed:
> > > > - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D=
(k,j)
> > > > - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and ge=
t in sync with
> > > > k, is Max=5Bfor all j=5D D(k,j)
> > > >
> > > > Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could p=
rolongs
> > > > the period of LSDB inconsistency=3F
> > > > It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, t=
his would
> > > > mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of =
the shortest
> > > > path.
> > > >
> > > > Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as=C2=A0 multiple =
LSPs originated by
> > > > the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, bu=
t let's start
> > > > with the simple case.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > --Bruno
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > =46rom: Lsr =5Bmailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf Of Le=
s Ginsberg
> > > > (ginsberg)
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > Henk -
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanx for your thoughtful posts.
> > > > > I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but decid=
ed to reply to
> > > > this one.
> > > > > Top posting for better readability.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.
> > > > > There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue - ne=
ither of
> > > > which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).
> > > > >
> > > > > I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are signifi=
cantly
> > > > different than that for which TCP is used.
> > > > > I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test cas=
e which Bruno
> > > > reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that with=
out any
> > > > changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order o=
f magnitude
> > > > faster than it commonly does today.
> > > > > This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correctly=
 and will not
> > > > need =22TCP=22.
> > > > >
> > > > > Introducing a TCP based solution requires:
> > > > >
> > > > > a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic
> > > > >
> > > > > b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the ad=
dress
> > > > families whose reachability advertisements it supports - somethin=
g which I
> > > > think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in envir=
onments where
> > > > multiple address family support is needed
> > > > >
> > > > > I really don't want to do either of the above.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correct -=
 and
> > > > both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more de=
tail will be
> > > > required.
> > > > > It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also need =
to ACK faster -
> > > > and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.
> > > > > The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP int=
erval is
> > > > expressed in ISO 10589:
> > > > >
> > > > > =22 partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between per=
iodic
> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> action for tran=
smission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.
> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> It shall be les=
s than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.=22
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seconds=

> > > > respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and
> > > > implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitu=
de.. These
> > > > numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the rel=
ationship
> > > > between the two needs to remain the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quickly=
 will result in
> > > > additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - an=
d this has
> > > > some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an imple=
mentation
> > > > which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate sho=
uld also be
> > > > able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to=
 be smarter
> > > > than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.
> > > > >
> > > > > LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far draft=
-ginsberg-lsr-
> > > > isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we =
aren't aware
> > > > of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.
> > > > > What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am still =
considering.
> > > > Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the=
 LAN can
> > > > support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the =
propagation
> > > > rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can h=
andle
> > > > faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed thro=
ughout the
> > > > network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smalle=
r example
> > > > of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network supp=
ort faster
> > > > flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be =22better=22=
 when faster
> > > > flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB incons=
istency.
> > > > More work needs to be done here...
> > > > >
> > > > > In summary, I don't expect to have to =22reinvent TCP=22 - but =
I do think you
> > > > have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progr=
ess on this
> > > > topic,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanx.
> > > > >
> > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> Les
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > =46rom: Lsr <lsr-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of Henk Smit
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM
> > > > > > To: lsr=40ietf.org
> > > > > > Subject: =5BLsr=5D Why only a congestion-avoidance algorithm =
on the sender
> > > > isn't
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published this =
draft:
> > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-ove=
r-tcp-00
> > > > > > That started this discussion about flow/congestion control an=
d ISIS
> > > > > > flooding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My thoughts were that once we start implementing new algorith=
ms to
> > > > > > optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own versi=
on of TCP.
> > > > > > I think most people here have a good general understanding of=
 TCP.
> > > > > > But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:
> > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP=5Fcongestion=5Fcontrol
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What does TCP do:
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) =46low control is: the receiver trying to prevent itself f=
rom being
> > > > > > overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receiver-wind=
ow-size
> > > > > > in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to receive..
> > > > > > 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent the li=
nks between
> > > > > > sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender makes a=
n
> > > > educated
> > > > > > guess at what speed it can send.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The part we seem to be missing:
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > =46or the sender to make a guess at what speed it can send, i=
t looks at
> > > > > > how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops =3F What is=
 the RTT =3F
> > > > > > Do drop-percentage and RTT change =3F Do acks come in at the =
same rate
> > > > > > as the sender sends segments =3F Are there duplicate acks =3F=
 To be able
> > > > > > to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How acks beh=
ave.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what speed it c=
an send,
> > > > > > without changing the protocol, the only thing the sender can =
do is look
> > > > > > at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the RTT of=
 PSNPs can
> > > > > > not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation does not=

> > > > > > immediately
> > > > > > send a PSNP when it receives a LSP.. 1) the receiver should j=
itter the
> > > > > > PSNP,
> > > > > > like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver should=
 wait a
> > > > > > little
> > > > > > to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PSNP pac=
ket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment will =
cause the
> > > > > > receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last received b=
yte. This
> > > > > > is called =22duplicate acks=22. This triggers the sender to d=
o
> > > > > > fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. The info=
rmation
> > > > > > a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lot less=
 than what
> > > > > > TCP can learn from incoming acks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The problem with sender-side congestion control:
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-interval =
is 5
> > > > > > seconds.
> > > > > > And I think most implementations use that as the default. Thi=
s means
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP withi=
n 5
> > > > > > seconds.
> > > > > > =46or the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs howeve=
r and
> > > > > > whenever
> > > > > > they want. This means a sender can not really make conclusion=
s about
> > > > > > flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver, etc.
> > > > > > There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSNPs.. T=
his makes
> > > > > > a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When you think about it, you realize that a sender should wai=
t the
> > > > > > full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions about =
dropped
> > > > > > LSPs.
> > > > > > If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding speed, i=
t will
> > > > > > probably
> > > > > > not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. A send=
er might
> > > > > > send
> > > > > > hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which might=
 all or
> > > > > > partially be dropped, complicating matters even further.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs.
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just like tha=
t in a
> > > > > > multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a congesti=
on-
> > > > control
> > > > > > algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the receiv=
er a more
> > > > > > specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least how t=
o do
> > > > PSNPs
> > > > > > under load.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Note that this might result in the receiver sending more (and=
 smaller)
> > > > > > PSNPs.
> > > > > > More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will receiver-side flow-control work =3F
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:
> > > > > > 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm
> > > > > > 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to send P=
SNPs
> > > > > > 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS process on t=
he
> > > > > > receiving
> > > > > > router can actually know if its running out of resources (buf=
fers on
> > > > > > interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation dependent.=
 A receiver
> > > > > > can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender has an =
upper bound
> > > > > > to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has both =
a
> > > > > > flow-control
> > > > > > window and a congestion-control window, and a sender uses bot=
h.
> > > > Maybe
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now, maybe=
 only in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me today.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding over TCP)=
:
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi-point=
 networks
> > > > > > (LANs).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TCP conn=
ections
> > > > > > introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of the T=
CP
> > > > > > connections =3F
> > > > > > =46ull mesh =3F Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-connecti=
on to the DIS =3F
> > > > > > There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSP=46). Things get me=
ssy quickly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, the other two proposals do not solve this problem ei=
ther.
> > > > > > How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm determi=
ne
> > > > whether
> > > > > > there were drops =3F There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN. We a=
ssume most
> > > > > > LSPs
> > > > > > that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on the LA=
N. There
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs, ISes=
 can send
> > > > > > PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (or ver=
y hard) to
> > > > > > me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs and ad=
just their
> > > > > > sending speed accordingly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm seems bes=
t.
> > > > Because
> > > > > > all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-speed is.=
 And make
> > > > > > sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest IS.. I=
'm not sure
> > > > > > this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more realist=
ic than
> > > > > > ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoidance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My conclusion:
> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > > > > Sender-side congestion-control won't work without specifying =
in more
> > > > > > detail how and when to send PSNPs.
> > > > > > Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont' know =
if it's
> > > > > > good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value is go=
od enough.
> > > > > > But it's a start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and weaker)=
 TCP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > henk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> > > > > > Lsr mailing list
> > > > > > Lsr=40ietf.org
> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> > > > >
> > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F
> > > > > Lsr mailing list
> > > > > Lsr=40ietf.org
> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> > > >
> > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> > > >
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<div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>Robert,<br />
<br />
Assuming C and E provide access to the same set of destinations, that are=
 closer of further away from C and E.<br />
B (which is fast), after it notifies A that it can=E2=80=99t reach C dire=
ctly will cause A to send traffic to D. D - dependent on total cost would=
 start happily sending some traffic towards destinations behind C to B so=
 L=46A on B wouldn=E2=80=99t really help.</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br />
<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On May 5, 2020, 5:04 PM -0700, Robe=
rt Raszuk &lt;robert=40raszuk.net&gt;, wrote:<br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 style=3D=22border-left-color: grey; border-=
left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left:=
 10px;=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>Hi Les,
<div><br /></div>
<div>A side comment but your example shows another - one may say even muc=
h more serious issue.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Assume we have L=46A/TI-L=46A enabled in the network and precomputed=
 on B which get's activated and shifts traffic to E when detects that C i=
s down. Detection is fast .. 10s-100s of milliseconds.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Now if B converges fast and recomputes topology much faster then D i=
t may remove protection and send packets to D natively. Well clearly as w=
e established D is slow and will loop it back.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>That is why I mentioned the other day that a fast control plane is n=
ot always a good thing (I am sure many will say the opposite - but it is =
ok ;).&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>But this proves that consistent convergence time in a domain is rath=
er a good thing regardless if it takes 2 sec or 50 sec on all nodes.&=231=
60;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Robert.</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div><br /></div>
</div>
<br />
<div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22 class=3D=22gmail=5Fattr=22>On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 1:=
35 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg=3D<a href=3D=22mailto:40cisco.=
com=40dmarc.ietf.org=22>40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br />=
</div>
<blockquote class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=22>
<div lang=3D=22EN-US=22 xml:lang=3D=22EN-US=22>
<div>
<p>Bruno -<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in per=
son.&=23160; Ahhh...the good old days...<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>=46irst, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or e=
ven a small number of LSPs. =46or those cases flooding speed does not mat=
ter.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or thou=
sands). And in such cases L=46A/microloop avoidance techniques are not ap=
plicable.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>Take the following simple topology:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160; =7C&=23160; =7C ... =7C&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C<u></u><u>=
</u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160=
;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+<u=
></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C C =7C&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C =
E =7C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160=
;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+<u=
></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C&=23160;&=23160;&=
=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; &=23160;=7C 1000<u></u><u></u></span></b></p=
>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160=
;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+<u=
></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C B =7C-------------=7C D =7C<u></=
u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+ &=23160;&=23160;1000&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160; &=23160;&=23160;+---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C&=23160;&=23160;&=
=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C&=23160;&=23160;&=
=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =5C&=23160;&=
=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; /<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =5C&=
=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23=
160;&=23160; /<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60; =5C&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; /=
<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60;&=23160; =5C&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; /<u></u><u></u></=
span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; =7C A =7C<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><b><span style=3D=22font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;=
=22>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=231=
60;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; +---+<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology s=
outhbound of A (not shown).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>C is a node with 1000 neighbors. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p>When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations i=
s via C.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p>Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (=
Node D) is 20 LSPs/seconds.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>If &=23160;Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode =
delay time).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP updates =
they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations via D.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p>But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive all L=
SP updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loop=
 traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50 seconds=
 to converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could =
be a good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specific top=
ology and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchang=
ed in the face of inconsistent flooding speed support.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>&=23160;&=23160;&=23160; Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
<p>&gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; =46rom: <a href=3D=22mailto:bruno.decraene=40orange.com=22 target=
=3D=22=5Fblank=22>bruno.decraene=40orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto=
:bruno.decraene=40orange..com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>bruno.decraene=40=
orange.com</a>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM</p>
<p>&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:ginsberg=40ci=
sco.com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>ginsberg=40cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D=
=22mailto:lsr=40ietf..org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr=40ietf.org</a></=
p>
<p>&gt; Subject: =46looding across a network</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Les,</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; =46rom: Lsr =5B<a href=3D=22mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org=22=
 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none=22>mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org</span></a>=5D On Behalf Of Les Gi=
nsberg</p>
<p>&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p>&gt; =5B...=5D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding =
the behavior</p>
<p>&gt; of the whole network may not be =22better=22 when faster flooding=
 is enabled</p>
<p>&gt; because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; 1) Do you have data on this=3F</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the floodi=
ng rate on</p>
<p>&gt; one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across th=
e</p>
<p>&gt; network=3F</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a simpl=
e scenario</p>
<p>&gt; where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i to =
the adjacent</p>
<p>&gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.</p>
<p>&gt; - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;=46rom t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all=
 nodes but k are</p>
<p>&gt; missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.</p>=

<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Let's call&=23160; SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the m=
etric between</p>
<p>&gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path from=
 k to i; and</p>
<p>&gt; D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i..</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; It seems that the time needed:</p>
<p>&gt; - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D=
(k,j)</p>
<p>&gt; - for all nodes across the network to learn about the LSP, and ge=
t in sync with</p>
<p>&gt; k, is Max=5Bfor all j=5D D(k,j)</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Then how can reducing the flooding delay on one adjacency could p=
rolongs</p>
<p>&gt; the period of LSDB inconsistency=3F</p>
<p>&gt; It seems to me that it can only improve/decrease it. Otherwise, t=
his would</p>
<p>&gt; mean that decreasing the cost on a link can increase the cost of =
the shortest</p>
<p>&gt; path.</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Note: I agree that there are other cases, such as&=23160; multipl=
e LSPs originated by</p>
<p>&gt; the same node, and multiple LSPs originated by multiple nodes, bu=
t let's start</p>
<p>&gt; with the simple case.</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; Thanks,</p>
<p>&gt; --Bruno</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; =46rom: Lsr =5B<a href=3D=22mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org=22=
 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowtext;text-decoratio=
n:none=22>mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org</span></a>=5D On Behalf Of Les Gi=
nsberg</p>
<p>&gt; (ginsberg)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Henk -</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Thanx for your thoughtful posts.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I have read your later posts on this thread as well - but de=
cided to reply to</p>
<p>&gt; this one.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Top posting for better readability.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; There is broad agreement that faster flooding is desirable.<=
/p>
<p>&gt; &gt; There are now two proposals as to how to address the issue -=
 neither of</p>
<p>&gt; which is proposing to use TCP (or equivalent).</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I have commented on why IS-IS flooding requirements are sign=
ificantly</p>
<p>&gt; different than that for which TCP is used.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I think it is also useful to note that even the simple test =
case which Bruno</p>
<p>&gt; reported on in last week's interim meeting demonstrated that with=
out any</p>
<p>&gt; changes to the protocol at all IS-IS was able to flood an order o=
f magnitude</p>
<p>&gt; faster than it commonly does today.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; This gives me hope that we are looking at the problem correc=
tly and will not</p>
<p>&gt; need =22TCP=22.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Introducing a TCP based solution requires:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; a)A major change to the adjacency formation logic</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; b)Removal of the independence of the IS-IS protocol from the=
 address</p>
<p>&gt; families whose reachability advertisements it supports - somethin=
g which I</p>
<p>&gt; think is a great strength of the protocol - particularly in envir=
onments where</p>
<p>&gt; multiple address family support is needed</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; I really don't want to do either of the above.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Your comments regarding PSNP response times are quite correc=
t - and</p>
<p>&gt; both of the draft proposals discuss this - though I agree more de=
tail will be</p>
<p>&gt; required.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; It is intuitive that if you want to flood faster you also ne=
ed to ACK faster -</p>
<p>&gt; and probably even retransmit faster when that is needed.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; The basic relationship between retransmit interval and PSNP =
interval is</p>
<p>&gt; expressed in ISO 10589:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; =22 partialSNPInterval - This is the amount of time between =
periodic</p>
<p>&gt; &=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=
gt; action for transmission of Partial Sequence Number PDUs.</p>
<p>&gt; &=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=
gt; It shall be less than minimumLSPTransmission-Interval.=22</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Of course ISO 10589 recommended values (2 seconds and 5 seco=
nds</p>
<p>&gt; respectively) associated with a much slower flooding rate and</p>=

<p>&gt; implementations I am aware of use values in this order of magnitu=
de.. These</p>
<p>&gt; numbers need to be reduced if we are to flood faster, but the rel=
ationship</p>
<p>&gt; between the two needs to remain the same.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; It is also true - as you state - that sending ACKs more quic=
kly will result in</p>
<p>&gt; additional PDUs which need to be received/processed by IS-IS - an=
d this has</p>
<p>&gt; some impact. But I think it is reasonable to expect that an imple=
mentation</p>
<p>&gt; which can support sending and receiving LSPs at a faster rate sho=
uld also be</p>
<p>&gt; able to send/receive PSNPs at a faster rate. But we still need to=
 be smarter</p>
<p>&gt; than sending one PSNP/one LSP in cases where we have a burst.</p>=

<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; LANs are a more difficult problem than P2P - and thus far dr=
aft-ginsberg-lsr-</p>
<p>&gt; isis-flooding-scale has been silent on this - but not because we =
aren't aware</p>
<p>&gt; of this - just have focused on the P2P behavior first.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; What the best behavior on a LAN may be is something I am sti=
ll considering.</p>
<p>&gt; Slowing flooding down to the speed at which the slowest IS on the=
 LAN can</p>
<p>&gt; support may not be the best strategy - as it also slows down the =
propagation</p>
<p>&gt; rate for systems downstream from the nodes on the LAN which can h=
andle</p>
<p>&gt; faster flooding - thereby having an impact on flooding speed thro=
ughout the</p>
<p>&gt; network in a way which may be out of proportion. This is a smalle=
r example</p>
<p>&gt; of the larger issue that when only some nodes in the network supp=
ort faster</p>
<p>&gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be =22better=22=
 when faster</p>
<p>&gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB incons=
istency.</p>
<p>&gt; More work needs to be done here...</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; In summary, I don't expect to have to =22reinvent TCP=22 - b=
ut I do think you</p>
<p>&gt; have provided a useful perspective for us to consider as we progr=
ess on this</p>
<p>&gt; topic,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; Thanx.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&=23160;&gt; Les</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =46rom: Lsr &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.=
org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowtext;text-dec=
oration:none=22>lsr-bounces=40ietf.org</span></a>&gt; On Behalf Of Henk S=
mit</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2020 6:58 AM</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: <a href=3D=22mailto:lsr=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5F=
blank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowtext;text-decoration:none=22>lsr=40=
ietf.org</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: =5BLsr=5D Why only a congestion-avoidance algo=
rithm on the sender</p>
<p>&gt; isn't</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; enough</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello all,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Two years ago, Gunter Van de Velde and myself published=
 this draft:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D=22https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hsmit-ls=
r-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=22c=
olor:windowtext;text-decoration:none=22>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-hsmit-lsr-isis-flooding-over-tcp-00</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; That started this discussion about flow/congestion cont=
rol and ISIS</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; My thoughts were that once we start implementing new al=
gorithms to</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; optimize ISIS flooding speed, we'll end up with our own=
 version of TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think most people here have a good general understand=
ing of TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; But if not, this is a good overview how TCP does it:</p=
>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D=22https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP=5Fconges=
tion=5Fcontrol=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowte=
xt;text-decoration:none=22>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP=5Fcongestion=
=5Fcontrol</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; What does TCP do:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP does 2 things: flow control and congestion control.=
</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) =46low control is: the receiver trying to prevent it=
self from being</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; overloaded. The receiver indicates, through the receive=
r-window-size</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; in the TCP acks, how much data it can or wants to recei=
ve..</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) Congestion control is: the sender trying to prevent =
the links between</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sender and receiver from being overloaded. The sender m=
akes an</p>
<p>&gt; educated</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; guess at what speed it can send.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The part we seem to be missing:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =46or the sender to make a guess at what speed it can s=
end, it looks at</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; how the transmission is behaving. Are there drops =3F W=
hat is the RTT =3F</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Do drop-percentage and RTT change =3F Do acks come in a=
t the same rate</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; as the sender sends segments =3F Are there duplicate ac=
ks =3F To be able</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to do this, the sender must know what to expect. How ac=
ks behave.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; If you want an ISIS sender to make a guess at what spee=
d it can send,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; without changing the protocol, the only thing the sende=
r can do is look</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; at the PSNPs that come back from the receiver. But the =
RTT of PSNPs can</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; not be predicted. Because a good ISIS implementation do=
es not</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; immediately</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; send a PSNP when it receives a LSP.. 1) the receiver sh=
ould jitter the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNP,</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; like it should jitter all packets. And 2) the receiver =
should wait a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; little</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to see if it can combine multiple acks into a single PS=
NP packet.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; In TCP, if a single segment gets lost, each new segment=
 will cause the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver to send an ack with the seqnr of the last rece=
ived byte. This</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; is called =22duplicate acks=22. This triggers the sende=
r to do</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; fast-retransmission. In ISIS, this can't be be done. Th=
e information</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender can get from looking at incoming PSNPs is a lo=
t less than what</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; TCP can learn from incoming acks.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem with sender-side congestion control:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; In ISIS, all we know is that the default retransmit-int=
erval is 5</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; And I think most implementations use that as the defaul=
t. This means</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; that</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the receiver of an LSP has one requirement: send a PSNP=
 within 5</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; seconds.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =46or the rest, implementations are free to send PSNPs =
however and</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; whenever</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; they want. This means a sender can not really make conc=
lusions about</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flooding speed, dropped LSPs, capacity of the receiver,=
 etc.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no ordering when flooding LSPs, or sending PSN=
Ps.. This makes</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; a sender-side algorithm for ISIS a lot harder.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When you think about it, you realize that a sender shou=
ld wait the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; full 5 seconds before it can make any real conclusions =
about dropped</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; If a sender looks at PSNPs to determine its flooding sp=
eed, it will</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; probably</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; not be able to react without a delay of a few seconds. =
A sender might</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; send</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; hunderds or thousands of LSPs in those 5 seconds, which=
 might all or</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; partially be dropped, complicating matters even further=
.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; A sender-sider algorithm should specify how to do PSNPs=
.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; So imho a sender-side only algorithm can't work just li=
ke that in a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; multi-vendor environment. We must not only specify a co=
ngestion-</p>
<p>&gt; control</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; algorithm for the sender. We must also specify for the =
receiver a more</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; specific algorithm how and when to send PSNPs. At least=
 how to do</p>
<p>&gt; PSNPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; under load.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Note that this might result in the receiver sending mor=
e (and smaller)</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; More packets might mean more congestion (inside routers=
).</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Will receiver-side flow-control work =3F</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't know if that's enough. It will certainly help.<=
/p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think to tackle this problem, we need 3 parts:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 1) sender-side congestion-control algorithm</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 2) more detailed algorithm on receiver when and how to =
send PSNPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; 3) receiver-side flow-control mechanism</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; As discussed at length, I don't know if the ISIS proces=
s on the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiving</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; router can actually know if its running out of resource=
s (buffers on</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; interfaces, linecards, etc). That's implementation depe=
ndent. A receiver</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; can definitely advertise a fixed value. So the sender h=
as an upper bound</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; to use when doing congestion-control. Just like TCP has=
 both a</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; flow-control</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; window and a congestion-control window, and a sender us=
es both.</p>
<p>&gt; Maybe</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; receiver can even advertise a dynamic value. Maybe now,=
 maybe only in</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; the</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; future. An advertised upper limit seems useful to me to=
day.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; What I didn't like about our own proposal (flooding ove=
r TCP):</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; The problem I saw with flooding over TCP concerns multi=
-point networks</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; (LANs).</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding over a multi-point network, setting up TC=
P connections</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; introduces serious challenges. Who are the endpoints of=
 the TCP</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; connections =3F</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =46ull mesh =3F Or do all ISes on a LAN create a TCP-co=
nnection to the DIS =3F</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; There is no backup DIS in ISIS (unlike OSP=46). Things =
get messy quickly.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; However, the other two proposals do not solve this prob=
lem either.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; How will a sender-side congestion-avoidence algorithm d=
etermine</p>
<p>&gt; whether</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; there were drops =3F There are no acks (PSNPs) on a LAN=
. We assume most</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; LSPs</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; that are broadcasted are received by all other ISes on =
the LAN. There</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; are</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; no acks. Only after the DIS has sent its periodic CSNPs=
, ISes can send</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSNPs to request retransmissions. It seems impossible (=
or very hard) to</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; me for all ISes on a LAN to keep track of dropped LSPs =
and adjust their</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sending speed accordingly.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; When flooding on a LAN, the receiver-side algorithm see=
ms best.</p>
<p>&gt; Because</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; all ISes can see what the lowest advertised sending-spe=
ed is. And make</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; sure they send slow enough to not overload the slowest =
IS.. I'm not sure</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; this is a good solution, but is seems easier and more r=
ealistic than</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; ISIS-flooding-over-TCP or sender-side congestion-avoida=
nce.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; My conclusion:</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sender-side congestion-control won't work without speci=
fying in more</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; detail how and when to send PSNPs.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Receiver-side flow-control will certainly help. I dont'=
 know if it's</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; good enough. I don't know if advertising a static value=
 is good enough.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; But it's a start.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; I still think we'll end up re-implementing a new (and w=
eaker) TCP.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; henk.</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt;</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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=5F=5F=5F</p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
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ank=22><span style=3D=22color:windowtext;text-decoration:none=22>Lsr=40ie=
tf.org</span></a></p>
<p>&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D=22https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=22=
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<p>&gt; &gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
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<p>&gt;</p>
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<p><u></u>&=23160;<u></u></p>
</div>
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute Reuse
        Authors         : Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2020-05-07

Abstract:
   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
   original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
   Segment Routing Traffic Engineering, Loop Free Alternate) have been
   defined which also make use of the link attribute advertisements.  In
   cases where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
   attributes the current advertisements do not support application
   specific values for a given attribute nor do they support indication
   of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
   link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements in
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 which address both of these shortcomings.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse@ietf.org>
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Hi Alvaro,

the new version which addresses your comments have been posted.

thanks,
Peter

On 05/05/2020 12:08, Peter Psenak wrote:
> Hi Alvaro,
> 
> thanks for your comments.
> 
> 
> I apologize for the delay in responding to your comments.
> 
> I tried to address all of them, some have been resolved during ISIS
> draft review, in which case I took the same resolution for this draf.
> 
> Please see inline, look for ##PP
> 
> Dear Authors:
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> I have finished reading this document, reviewing the e-mail archive
> and all the various reviews and comments.  Quoting one of the authors,
> "it is essential that the two IGPs provide equivalent functionality"
> [1] -- so I have considered draft-ietf-isis-te-app-09 in parallel with
> this one (I'm sending out a separate yet very similar review for it).
> 
> In general, I think both drafts need some work.  When appropriate, I
> have used "[c]" to highlight comparisons.  I tried to put equivalent
> comments in both documents, but may have missed a few...
> 
> I have some significant concerns (see details inline) about this
> document -- and as a result about the ISIS draft.  I want to point out
> a couple of them here:
> 
> (A) Deployment Considerations
> 
> This document contains what I would characterize as a "distributed"
> Deployment Considerations section through §8, §9 and §10.  There is a
> lot of content, but I still made some comments inline about other
> important information.  Please consider consolidating all the
> deployment-related information in one place.  rfc5706 (specially §2)
> may be useful, please take a look.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> I have kept "Attribute Advertisements and Enablement" section (moved it
> up) and combined "Deployment Considerations" and "Interoperability,
> Backwards Compatibility and Migration" into single section "Deployment
> Considerations" similar to what has been done for ISIS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [c] This document does not include equivalent information to what is
> in §7.* in the ISIS draft.  Please consider "importing" it (or at
> least making a reference).
> 
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> (B) I was able to identify one significant functional difference which
> warrants a discussion of the reason for it and maybe the pros/cons:
> 
>      §3 talks about the behavior when "both SABM Length and UDABM Length
> are 0".
>      This document makes the use of the attributes mandatory by all
> applications
>      (in conflict with §8.2) while the ISIS draft makes their use
> optional (§4.1).
> 
> 
> ##PP
> removed the text in section 3 and clarified in section "Use of Zero
> Length Application Identifier Bit Masks" to match what is in ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> I will wait for this review to be addressed before moving both
> documents forward together.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/7zkoaLfUe19JxTOWaKWO51wK9gg
> 
> 
> [Line numbers from idnits.]
> 
> ...
> 16	Abstract
> 
> 18	   Various link attributes have been defined in OSPF in the context of
> 19	   the MPLS Traffic Engineering (TE) and GMPLS.  Since the original
> 20	   RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g., SRTE,
> 21	   LFA) have been defined which also make use of the link attribute
> 22	   advertisements.  This document defines how to distribute link
> 23	   attributes in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 for applications other than MPLS TE
> 24	   or GMPLS.
> 
> [c] This abstract is a lot more general, while the ISIS one provides
> more specifics, including talking about RSVP-TE instead of MPLS TE...
> 
> [minor] It may not be obvious to all readers what the relationship is
> between RSVP-TE and  MPLS TE...
> 
> ##PP
> Made it similar to ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 89	1.  Introduction
> 
> 91	   Various link attributes have been defined in OSPFv2 [RFC2328] and
> 92	   OSPFv3 [RFC5340] in the context of the MPLS TE and GMPLS.  All these
> 93	   attributes are distributed by OSPFv2 as sub-TLVs of the Link-TLV
> 94	   advertised in the OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA [RFC3630].  In OSPFv3, they
> 95	   are distributed as sub-TLVs of the Link-TLV advertised in the OSPFv3
> 96	   Intra-Area-TE-LSA as defined in [RFC5329].
> 
> [nit] s/defined in OSPFv2/defined for OSPFv2
> 
> [nit] s/context of the MPLS/context of MPLS
> 
> [minor] "All these attributes..."  Which attributes?  I'm sure the
> references are made later, but since they are mentioned here first,
> please put references here.  [[c] The ISIS draft mentions the relevant
> RFCs from the start.]
> 
> 98	   Many of these link attributes are useful outside of traditional MPLS
> 99	   Traffic Engineering or GMPLS.  This brings its own set of problems,
> 100	   in particular how to distribute these link attributes in OSPFv2 and
> 101	   OSPFv3 when MPLS TE and GMPLS are not deployed or are deployed in
> 102	   parallel with other applications that use these link attributes.
> 
> [nit] "own set of problems"  Are there others you want to highlight
> besides the distribution?
> 
> [minor] What is an application?  I think I can tell the difference
> between an "application", as used in this document, and an
> "application" as what the ART area does: "The ART area develops
> application protocols and architectures in the IETF." [1]  Please
> define what an application is in the context of this document.
> 
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/art/about/
> 
> [major] Related to applications...  "distinction between link
> attributes used by TE and link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or
> OSPFv3 applications" [§2.1]  Some of the other applications mentioned
> (SRTE, for example) are also related to Traffic Engineering, so the
> general use of TE and non-TE as a distinction is very confusing and
> seems to assume the type of applications that can use the alternate
> advertisement are limited to "non-TE" -- but I'm sure that is not the
> objective.  Please be clear in the use of general terms like TE.
> 
> [c] The ISIS draft seems to be more careful/explicit when pointing out
> the difference.
> 
> [nit] s/distribute these link attributes...with other applications
> that use these link attributes./distribute these link
> attributes...with other applications that may use them.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> Changed to match the ISIS draft,
> 
> 
> ...
> 124	1.1.  Requirements notation
> 
> 126	   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
> 127	   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
> 128	   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].
> 
> [major] Use the rfc8174 template.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> [c] Before starting with the solution, the ISIS draft has a section
> ("Legacy Advertisements") that talks about the current state.  I
> thought that was very helpful.  An equivalent section in this case
> would review (or at least point to) RFC3630, RFC5329, RFC7471,
> RFC7684, RFC8362...
> 
> 
> ##PP
> done. Moved some of the content from section 2.1 to this new section.
> 
> 
> ...
> 136	2.1.  OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA
> 
> 138	   Extended Link Opaque LSAs as defined in [RFC7684] for OSPFv2 and
> 139	   Extended Router-LSAs [RFC8362] for OSPFv3 are used to advertise link
> 140	   attributes that are used by applications other then MPLS TE or GMPLS.
> 141	   These LSAs were defined as a generic containers for distribution of
> 142	   the extended link attributes.  There are several advantages in using
> 143	   them:
> 
> 145	   1.  Advertisement of the link attributes does not make the link part
> 146	       of the TE topology.  It avoids any conflicts and is fully
> 147	       compatible with [RFC3630] and [RFC5329].
> 
> 149	   2.  The OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA remains
> 150	       truly opaque to OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 as originally defined in
> 151	       [RFC3630] and [RFC5329] respectively.  Their contents are not
> 152	       inspected by OSPF, that acts as a pure transport.
> 
> 154	   3.  There is clear distinction between link attributes used by TE and
> 155	       link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 applications.
> 
> 
> [major] "used by TE" is ambiguous because SRTE, for example, is a form
> of TE.  Note that the TE term is used extensively throughout the
> document...and it may cause that same type of confusion.  The same
> applies for the mention of "non-TE" later on...  Please be explicit
> and don't simply use TE/non-TE, but as necessary qualify the use.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> fixed
> 
> 157	   4.  All link attributes that are used by other applications are
> 158	       advertised in a single LSA, the Extended Link Opaque LSA in
> 159	       OSPFv2 or the OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA [RFC8362] in OSPFv3.
> 
> 161	   The disadvantage of this approach is that in rare cases, the same
> 162	   link attribute is advertised in both the TE Opaque and Extended Link
> 163	   Attribute LSAs in OSPFv2 or the Intra-Area-TE-LSA and E-Router-LSA in
> 164	   OSPFv3.  Additionally, there will be additional standardization
> 165	   effort.  However, this could also be viewed as an advantage as the
> 166	   non-TE use cases for the TE link attributes are documented and
> 167	   validated by the LSR working group.
> 
> [minor] "...both the TE Opaque and Extended Link Attribute LSAs in
> OSPFv2 or the Intra-Area-TE-LSA and E-Router-LSA in OSPFv3."  It might
> be good to introduce (maybe in the §2 introduction) how the
> information is advertised today so that this makes sense to the casual
> reader.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> [nit] "Additionally, there will be additional standardization effort."
>    Not really a technical argument...  Hopefully when attributes are
> standardized in one case they will at the same time standardized for
> using the alternate advertisement mechanism.
> 
> ##PP
> removed
> 
> [major] "non-TE use cases"  Same comment as above: SRTE is a form of
> TE.  Please either be specific and use MPLS TE/RSVP-TE, or clearly
> define the terms somewhere so that readers understand that non-TE
> still includes TE mechanisms like SRTE...
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> [nit] The last sentence is unnecessary..  The registration policy for
> the registries is set at "IETF Review or IESG Approval", which means
> that any RFC from any WG would be ok to register a new value (IETF
> Review), and that there may even exist cases when an RFC is not needed
> (IESG Approval)...and there are also ranges for Experimental Use and
> FCFS.  IOW, there is no guarantee that new attributes, or even the
> rehashing of existing ones for "non-TE use cases" will even go through
> the IETF, much less the lsr WG.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> removed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 169	   Extended Link Opaque LSA [RFC7684] and E-Router-LSA [RFC8362] are
> 170	   used to advertise any link attributes used for non-TE applications in
> 171	   OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 respectively, including those that have been
> 172	   originally defined for TE applications.
> 
> [minor] Please include a forward reference to §4 somewhere.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> [nit] This is the 3rd time that you mention this...
> 
> ##PP
> It is important :)
> 
> 
> 
> 174	   TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue to use OSPFv2 TE
> 175	   Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].
> 
> [nit] Also mentioned above...
> 
> ##PP
> We need to make this very clear. I rather keep it in multiple places
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 177	   The format of the link attribute TLVs that have been defined for TE
> 178	   applications will be kept unchanged even when they are used for non-
> 179	   TE applications.  Unique code points will be allocated for these TE
> 180	   link attribute TLVs from the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV Sub-TLV
> 181	   Registry [RFC7684] and from the OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry
> 182	   [RFC8362].  For each reused TLV, the code point will be defined in an
> 183	   IETF document along with the expected use-case(s).
> 
> 
> [minor] s/Unique code points will be allocated.../Unique code points
> are allocated...
> Please also add a pointer to the IANA Considerations section here.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> [major] "For each reused TLV, the code point will be defined in an
> IETF document along with the expected use-case(s)."  It sounds as if
> the intent of this sentence is to set a requirement for future work.
> However, as I mentioned above, the Registration Policy defined for the
> registries don't support asking for any type of IETF documentation.
> 
> ##PP
> removed
> 
> 
> 
> 185	3.  Advertisement of Application Specific Values
> 
> 187	   To allow advertisement of the application specific values of the link
> 188	   attribute, a new Application Specific Link Attributes (ASLA) sub-TLV
> 189	   is defined.  The ASLA sub-TLV is a sub-TLV of the OSPFv2 Extended
> 190	   Link TLV [RFC7471] and OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV [RFC8362].
> 
> [minor] s/RFC7471/RFC7684
> 
> ##PP
> fixed
> 
> 
> ...
> 221	      SABM Length: Standard Application Identifier Bit-Mask Length.  It
> 222	      MUST be a multiple of 4 bytes.  If the Standard Application Bit-
> 223	      Mask is not present, the Standard Application Bit-Mask Length MUST
> 224	      be set to 0.
> 
> [c] The ISIS draft defines the L-flag to indicate that the
> "applications listed...MUST use the legacy advertisements".  There is
> no equivalent functionality here.  Please see my comments about this
> in §4.1 (of the ISIS draft).
> 
> ##PP
> That is correct, there is no L-flag in OSPF. We do not plan to use TE
> Opaque LSA for anything else than what they have been defined for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 231	      Standard Application Identifier Bit-Mask: Optional set of bits,
> 232	      where each bit represents a single standard application.  Bits are
> 233	      defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app], which also request a new IANA
> 234	      "Link Attribute Applications" registry under "Interior Gateway
> 235	      Protocol (IGP) Parameters" for them.  The bits are repeated here
> 236	      for informational purpose:
> 
> [minor] s/Bits are defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app], which also
> request a new IANA "Link Attribute Applications" registry under
> "Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) Parameters" for them./Bits are
> defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 238	         Bit-0 (R-bit): RSVP TE
> 
> [nit] s/RSVP TE/RSVP-TE
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 240	         Bit-1 (S-bit): Segment Routing TE
> 
> 242	         Bit-2 (F-bit): Loop Free Alternate (LFA).  Includes all LFA
> 243	         types
> 
> [just wondering] Given that we're trying to future-proof...  Can there
> be cases where the link attributes for "normal" LFA, vs Remote LFA
> (for example) might need to be different?  Considering that part of
> the justification for this work is the need to potentially advertise
> different attributes per application, and given that the question
> "what is meant by LFA?" came up more than once on the mailing list, I
> guess the answer might be yes (at least for some use cases).  Knowing
> that the user has their own bits to play with, I'm sure they can
> accommodate if the need comes up.   Just thinking out loud...
> 
> 
> ##PP
> has been closed with ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> ...
> 248	   Standard Application Identifier Bits are defined/sent starting with
> 249	   Bit 0.  Additional bit definitions that are defined in the future
> 250	   SHOULD be assigned in ascending bit order so as to minimize the
> 251	   number of octets that will need to be transmitted.
> 
> [major] "Additional bit definitions that may be defined in the future
> SHOULD be assigned in ascending bit order so as to minimize the number
> of octets that will need to be transmitted."  This statement about
> assignment belongs in the IANA Consideration section as part of the
> instructions to IANA on how to manage the space.
> 
> [major] When would it be ok for IANA not to assign the values in
> order?  IOW, why is that a SHOULD and not a MUST?
> 
> [minor] Given the intent to minimize the transmissions, should there
> be a statement standardizing that behavior?  I'm thinking of something
> like: "In order to minimize the number of octets transmitted, the
> sender SHOULD/MUST (?) transmit only the minimum necessary amount of
> information..."  IOW, the assignment policy, and the ability to
> advertise the *ABM Length is useless unless the sender takes advantage
> of it.
> 
> 
> #PP
> removed this text, as bits and the registry that defines them is
> specified in ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> 253	   User Defined Application Identifier Bits have no relationship to
> 254	   Standard Application bits and are NOT managed by IANA or any other
> 255	   standards body.  It is recommended that bits are used starting with
> 256	   Bit 0 so as to minimize the number of octets required to advertise
> 257	   all of them.
> 
> [nit] "all of them", what?  s/all of them/any User Defined Applications.
> 
> ##PP
> Changed to "all UDAs"
> 
> 
> 259	   Undefined bits in both Bit-Masks MUST be transmitted as 0 and MUST be
> 260	   ignored on receipt.  Bits that are NOT transmitted MUST be treated as
> 261	   if they are set to 0 on receipt.
> 
> [major] "Undefined bits MUST be transmitted as 0 and MUST be ignored
> on receipt."  What if the sender and the receiver support a different
> set of applications?  For example, suppose that the sender supports a
> new application identified by the N-bit, and sets only that bit; the
> receiver treats the N-bit as unknown (= undefined) and ignores it.
> The result is that, for the receiver, there seems to be no indication
> of an application.  Is "no application" a valid indication, or should
> at least one bit always be set?
> 
> ##PP
> Just like unknown TLVs, unknown bits MUST be ignored.
> I have added more text, similar to ISIS.
> 
> Note that below the case is presented for when "neither the Standard
> Application Bits nor the User Defined Application bits are set (i.e.,
> both SABM Length and UDABM Length are 0)", but the condition is
> different because the bits are not present (see my comment below).
> 
> [minor] Following on the previous comment...  It seems that a
> requirement is for the routers/nodes in the domain to agree on the
> meaning of the bits: support the same Standard Applications and
> interpret the User Defined bit mask the same way.  Please add this
> type of information to the potential new Deployment Considerations
> Section.
> 
> ##PP
> For Standard Applications it is obvious that we need to agree on the
> meaning of the bits. That's why we are standardizing them. For User
> Defined bits, I would rather avoid specifying anything, it's up to the
> user what it does.
> 
> [nit] "Bits that are NOT transmitted MUST be..."  While I understand
> what you mean, having Normative language for the behavior of things
> that are not received doesn't seem appropriate.  How about something
> like this: "Any omitted bits MUST be..."?
> 
> ##PP
> aligned with ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> ...
> 271	   The advantage of not making the Application Bit-Masks part of the
> 272	   attribute advertisement itself is that we can keep the format of the
> 273	   link attributes that have been defined previously and reuse the same
> 274	   format when advertising them in the ASLA sub-TLV.
> 
> [nit] s/we can keep the format of the link attributes that have been
> defined previously and reuse the same format when advertising them in
> the ASLA sub-TLV./the format of any previously defined link attributes
> can be kept and reused when advertising them in the ASLA sub-TLV.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> 276	   When neither the Standard Application Bits nor the User Defined
> 277	   Application bits are set (i.e., both SABM Length and UDABM Length are
> 278	   0) in the ASLA sub-TLV, then the link attributes included in it MUST
> 279	   be considered as being applicable to all applications.
> 
> [major] s/bits are set/bits are present
> "set" gives the impression of them being "1"; it's different to have
> them all be 0 than to have then not be there.
> 
> [major] The specification of what to do when "both SABM Length and
> UDABM Length are 0" is inconsistent with §8.2.  Please specify the
> behavior only once.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> I have removed this text and added the text to "Deployment consideration
> " section. The text matches what is in the ISIS draft.
> 
> [c] The ISIS draft leaves open the possibility for applications to use
> the attributes while this document makes it mandatory. I think this is
> a significant functional difference.
> 
> ##PP
> I have aligned with ISIS.
> 
> 
> 281	   If, however, another advertisement of the same link attribute
> 282	   includes any Application Bit-Mask in the ASLA sub-TLV, applications
> 283	   that are listed in the Application Bit-Masks of such ASLA sub-TLV
> 284	   SHOULD use the attribute advertisement which has the application
> 285	   specific bit set in the Application Bit-Masks.
> 
> 287	   If the same application is listed in the Application Bit-Masks of
> 288	   more then one ASLA sub-TLV, the application SHOULD use the first
> 289	   advertisement and ignore any subsequent advertisements of the same
> 290	   attribute.  This situation SHOULD be logged as an error.
> 
> [major] For the first two SHOULDs (in the last two paragraphs: "SHOULD
> use the attribute advertisement" and "SHOULD use the first
> advertisement").  When is it ok to not do as specified?  For example,
> are there specific considerations related to not selecting the first
> advertisement?  Why would a receiver not use the attribute
> advertisement which has the application specific bit set?  IOW, why
> are these not MUSTs?
> 
> ##PP
> Changed to MUST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 292	   This document defines the initial set of link attributes that MUST
> 293	   use ASLA sub-TLV if advertised in the OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV or in
> 294	   the OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV.  If the ASLA sub-TLV includes any link
> 295	   attribute(s) NOT listed below, they MUST be ignored.  Documents which
> 296	   define new link attributes MUST state whether the new attributes
> 297	   support application specific values and as such MUST be advertised in
> 298	   an ASLA sub-TLV.  The link attributes that MUST be advertised in ASLA
> 299	   sub-TLVs are:
> 
> [nit] s/use ASLA sub-TLV/use the ASLA sub-TLV
> 
> ##PP
> fixed
> 
> 
> 
> [major] "initial set of link attributes that MUST use [the] ASLA
> sub-TLV if advertised..."    The second paragraph in this section says
> that "ASLA sub-TLV is an optional sub-TLV" -- that is a true
> statement.  However, the ASLA sub-TLV is (according to this paragraph)
> mandatory when the link attributes are used.
> 
> Suggestion (for the second paragraph)>
> 
>      The ASLA sub-TLV is an optional sub-TLV and can appear multiple
> times in the
>      OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV and OSPFv3 Router-Link TLV.  It MUST be
> present if
>      any of the link attributes listed at the end on this section are
>      advertised.  It has the following format:
> 
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> 301	      - Shared Risk Link Group
> 
> 303	      - Unidirectional Link Delay
> 
> 305	      - Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay
> 
> 307	      - Unidirectional Delay Variation
> 
> 309	      - Unidirectional Link Loss
> 
> 311	      - Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth
> 
> 313	      - Unidirectional Available Bandwidth
> 
> 315	      - Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth
> 
> 317	      - Administrative Group
> 
> 319	      - Extended Administrative Group
> 
> 321	      - TE Metric
> 
> [minor]  Please include references for the definition of these attributes.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> 323	4.  Reused TE link attributes
> 
> 325	   This section defines the use case and code points from the OSPFv2
> 326	   Extended Link TLV Sub-TLV Registry and OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV
> 327	   Registry for some of the link attributes that have been originally
> 328	   defined for TE or GMPLS.
> 
> [minor] "defines the...code points"  The code points are
> assigned/defined by IANA later on..   Perhaps: "This section defines
> the use cases and indicates the code points (see Section 12)..."
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> ...
> 408	4.4.  TE Metric
> 
> 410	   [RFC3630] defines TE Metric.
> 
> [minor] rfc3630 calls it "Traffic Engineering Metric"
> 
> ##PP
> fixed
> 
> 
> ...
> 417	5.  Maximum Link Bandwidth
> 
> [nit] Include the application independent attributes in a single
> section -- a sub-section each.
> 
> 419	   Maximum link bandwidth is an application independent attribute of the
> 420	   link that is defined in [RFC3630].  Because it is an application
> 421	   independent attribute, it MUST NOT be advertised in ASLA sub-TLV.
> 422	   Instead, it MAY be advertised as a sub-TLV of the Extended Link
> 423	   Opaque LSA Extended Link TLV in OSPFv2 [RFC7684] or sub-TLV of OSPFv3
> 424	   E-Router-LSA Router-Link TLV in OSPFv3 [RFC8362].
> 
> [minor] I understand why the "Maximum link bandwidth is an application
> independent attribute of the link".  But I am having a harder time
> understanding why other bandwidth-related metrics (specifically
> Unidirectional Residual Bandwidth, Unidirectional Available Bandwidth
> and Unidirectional Utilized Bandwidth) are not treated the same way.
> A similar question was raised on the list and the treatment was
> justified in order to support use cases where the bandwidth is managed
> per application [1].  I don't want to revisit the discussion here
> about the treatment, but it is important for the reader to understand
> the existence of those use cases.  Please add a paragraph or two
> talking about the consideration.
> 
> ##PP
> added a similar section as the one that has been added to ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/xl8HWDeQqYNcv_X_568-xv6rfvk
> 
> [minor] This attribute and other bandwidth-related ones are prone to
> interaction as multiple applications may want to use the resources.
> While the use of the resources is out of scope, it would be helpful to
> include that type of information in a Deployment Considerations
> section.
> 
> [c] A related point was made when reviewing the ISIS draft [1].
> 
> [1]
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/isis-wg/2M2pho1EZcVTkOOQssLQUVO0HY4
> 
> 
> ##PP
> I hope the added section makes it clear.
> 
> 
> ...
> [minor][c] The ISIS draft also calls out the Maximum Reservable Link
> Bandwidth and Unreserved Bandwidth as attributes specific to
> RSVP-TE...but this document doesn't [§4.2.2].  Why?  I think the
> answer has to do with this text from §2.1:
> 
>      TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue to use OSPFv2 TE
>      Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> ##PP
> more precisely, Maximum Reservable Link Bandwidth and Unreserved
> Bandwidth as RSVP-TE specific attributes are not allowed in ASLA TLV.
> These attributes MUST use TE Opaque LSAs.
> 
> If so, it wasn't completely clear to me that the sub-TLVs defined in
> rfc3630 and rfc5329 continue to be advertised when using
> RSVP-TE/GMPLS.
> 
> ##PP
> - all TLVs defined in rfc3630 and rfc5329 can continue to be advertised
> in legacy TE Opaque LSAs when used with RSVP-TE/GMPLS
> 
> - Maximum Reservable Link and Bandwidth and Unreserved Bandwidth as
> RSVP-TE specific attributes MUST only use the TE Opaque LSAs and MUST
> never be advertised in ASLA.
> 
> - we do support app bit in ASLA TLV for RSVP-TE. This allows attributes
> that are allowed to be advertised in ASLA TLV to be associated with RSVP-TE.
> 
> - It might be worth including stronger wording in §2.1.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> there can not be a stronger wording.
> 
> - Given that some of the sub-TLVs (from rfc3630 and rfc5329) are
> reused (§4.3 through §7), maybe it is worth providing some guidance on
> not using those if RSVP-TE is the only application, or avoiding their
> inclusion in the original LSAs.
> 
> ##PP
> I added a new subsection in the "Deployment Considerations" to describe
> the above RSVP case and the case of Maximum Reservable Link Bandwidth
> and Unreserved Bandwidth/
> 
> 
> 
> 434	6.  Local Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLV
> 
> [major] The Local/Remote Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLVs (rfc5329) can
> include multiple addresses for a link.  It seems to me that it could
> be possible for different applications to use different addresses.  If
> that is the case, then it seems that these sub-TLVs should not be
> application independent.  Why are they not considered to be
> application specific?
> 
> [minor] Why are IPv4 addresses not considered?
> 
> ##PP
> IPv4 local address is part of the basic spec.
> IPv6 remote address has been added in rfc8379.
> 
> 
> ...
> 460	8.1.  Use of TE LSA Advertisements
> 
> [c] I made the same comments in §5.1 of the ISIS draft.
> 
> 462	   Bit Identifers for Standard Applications are defined in Section 3.
> 463	   All of the identifiers defined in this document are associated with
> 464	   applications which were already deployed in some networks prior to
> 465	   the writing of this document.  Therefore, such applications have been
> 466	   deployed using the TE LSA advertisements.  The Standard Applications
> 467	   defined in this document MAY continue to use TE LSA advertisements
> 468	   for a given link so long as at least one of the following conditions
> 469	   is true:
> 
> [nit] s/Identifers/Identifiers
> 
> ##PP
> fixed
> 
> [major] Even if specifying the behavior for the Standard Applications,
> this document cannot Normatively specify anything affecting the case
> where "applications have been deployed using the legacy
> advertisements".  s/MAY/may
> 
> [] I think that the text in this section can be generalized to any
> application, not just ones defined in this document.  s/The Standard
> Applications defined in this document MAY continue/The Standard
> Applications may continue
> 
> ##PP
> I believe this has been closed during ISIS review.
> I also added a sentence at the end of this section to match ISIS.
> 
> 
> 
> 471	      The application is RSVP-TE
> 
> 473	      The application is SRTE or LFA and RSVP-TE is not deployed
> 474	      anywhere in the network
> 
> 476	      The application is SRTE or LFA, RSVP-TE is deployed in the
> 477	      network, and both the set of links on which SRTE and/or LFA
> 478	      advertisements are required and the attribute values used by SRTE
> 479	      and/or LFA on all such links is fully congruent with the links and
> 480	      attribute values used by RSVP-TE
> 
> [] To generalize:
> 
>      o  A single application is deployed in the network
> 
>      o  Multiple applications are deployed in the network and all the
> links and
>         attribute values are fully congruent between them.
> 
> 482	   Under the conditions defined above, implementations which support the
> 483	   extensions defined in this document have the choice of using TE LSA
> 484	   advertisements or application specific advertisements in support of
> 485	   SRTE and/or LFA.  This will require implementations to provide
> 486	   controls specifying which type of advertisements are to be sent/
> 487	   processed on receive for these applications.  Further discussion of
> 488	   the associated issues can be found in Section 10.
> 
> [] To generalize: s/in support of SRTE and/or LFA/in support of other
> applications
> 
> 490	   New applications which future documents define to make use of the
> 491	   advertisements defined in this document MUST NOT make use of TE LSA
> 492	   advertisements.
> 
> [major] Why not?  Just as the cases above, the application may run my
> itself on the network, and/or the attributes may be fully congruent.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> again, this has been closed with ISIS. I updated accordingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 494	8.2.  Use of Zero Length Application Identifier Bit Masks
> 
> [minor] This section is partially redundant with the behavior
> specified in §3.  Please make the specification only once.
> 
> ##PP
> removed from 3.
> 
> 
> 496	   If link attributes are advertised associated with zero length
> 497	   Application Identifier Bit-Masks for both standard applications and
> 498	   user defined applications, then that set of link attributes MAY be
> 499	   used by any application.  If support for a new application is
> 500	   introduced on any node in a network in the presence of such
> 501	   advertisements, these advertisements MAY be used by the new
> 502	   application.  If this is not what is intended, then existing
> 503	   advertisements MUST be readvertised with an explicit set of
> 504	   applications specified before a new application is introduced.
> 
> [major] s/MAY be used/may be used
> It is just a statement of fact...
> 
> ##PP
> updated to match ISIS
> 
> 
> 506	9.  Attribute Advertisements and Enablement
> 
> [c] This section is pretty much the same in both drafts.  Consider
> making the specification only once (maybe in the ISIS draft -- because
> the applications are defined there) and then referencing it.  Note the
> generalization comment below.
> 
> ##PP
> I believe it's good to keep it for readability. I made it same as in
> ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> ...
> 517	   In the case of RSVP-TE, the advertisement of application specific
> 518	   link attributes implies that RSVP is enabled on that link.  The
> 519	   absence of RSVP-TE application specific link attributes in
> 520	   combination with the absence of legacy advertisements implies that
> 521	   RSVP is NOT enabled on that link.
> 
> [minor] Specifying by implication sounds confusing to me.  Can we come
> up with Normative language to accompany the text above?
> 
> Suggestion>
>      The R-bit in the SABM MUST be set only if RSVP is enabled on the
>      corresponding link.  All RSVP-enabled links MUST have a
> corresponding link
>      attributes advertisement.
> 
> 523	   In the case of SRTE, advertisement of application specific link
> 524	   attributes does NOT indicate enablement of SRTE.  The advertisements
> 525	   are only used to support constraints which may be applied when
> 526	   specifying an explicit path.  SRTE is implicitly enabled on all links
> 527	   which are part of the Segment Routing enabled topology independent of
> 528	   the existence of link attribute advertisements.
> 
> 530	   In the case of LFA, advertisement of application specific link
> 531	   attributes does NOT indicate enablement of LFA on that link.
> 532	   Enablement is controlled by local configuration.
> 
> 534	   If, in the future, additional standard applications are defined to
> 535	   use this mechanism, the specification defining this use MUST define
> 536	   the relationship between application specific link attribute
> 537	   advertisements and enablement for that application.
> 
> [] To generalize:
> 
> Suggestion>
>      For Standard Applications, advertisement of application specific link
>      attributes does NOT indicate enablement of the application on that
> link.  If
>      additional Standard Applications are defined with a different enablement
>      expectation, then the corresponding specification MUST define the
> alternate
>      relationship between application specific link attribute
> advertisements and
>      enablement for that application.
> 
> 539	   This document allows the advertisement of application specific link
> 540	   attributes with no application identifiers i.e., both the Standard
> 541	   Application Identifier Bit-Mask and the User Defined Application Bit
> 542	   Mask are not present (See Section 3).  This supports the use of the
> 543	   link attribute by any application.  In the presence of an application
> 544	   where the advertisement of link attribute advertisements is used to
> 545	   infer the enablement of an application on that link (e.g., RSVP-TE),
> 546	   the absence of the Application Identifier leaves ambiguous whether
> 547	   that application is enabled on such a link.  This needs to be
> 548	   considered when making use of the "any application" encoding.
> 
> [major] What does the use of the "any application" encoding say about
> RSVP-TE?  My interpretation is that if RSVP-TE is used, then the "any
> application" encoding can't be used.  Is that correct?  Please be
> specific.
> 
> ##PP
> I hope all the above comments were addressed by reusing ISIS text, which
> has been approved already.
> 
> 
> 550	10.  Backward Compatibility
> 
> [major] This section talks about the case where legacy advertisements
> are already in use.  This document cannot Normatively define what
> those deployments do, because by definition they are not necessarily
> implementing this specification.  IOW, phrases like "OSPF routers in
> that domain SHOULD continue to advertise" are out of place.
> 
> [] Instead of trying to fix the text, I believe that the §8.1 already
> covers the scenarios discussed here.  Also, please consider
> "importing" the 7.* sub-sections from the ISIS draft.
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> ...
> 556	   In fact, there is at least one OSPF implementation that utilizes the
> 557	   link attributes advertised in TE Opaque LSAs [RFC3630] for Non-RSVP
> 558	   TE applications.  For example, this implementation of LFA and remote
> 559	   LFA utilizes links attributes such as Shared Risk Link Groups (SRLG)
> 560	   [RFC4203] and Admin Group [[RFC3630] advertised in TE Opaque LSAs.
> 561	   These applications are described in [RFC5286], [RFC7490], [RFC7916]
> 562	   and [RFC8102].
> 
> [nit] s/Non-RSVP TE/Non-RSVP-TE
> 
> 564	   When an OSPF routing domain includes routers using link attributes
> 565	   from the OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSAs or the OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA for
> 566	   Non-RSVP TE applications defined in this document (i.e.  SRTE and
> 567	   LFA), OSPF routers in that domain SHOULD continue to advertise such
> 568	   OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSAs or the OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA.  In such a
> 569	   deployment, the advertised attributes SHOULD be the same and Non-
> 570	   RSVP application access to link attributes is a matter of local
> 571	   policy.
> 
> [nit] s/Non-RSVP TE/Non-RSVP-TE
> 
> [nit] s/Non-RSVP/Non-RSVP-TE
> 
> 573	   When advertising link-attributes for any new applications other then
> 574	   RSVP-TE, SRTE or LFA, OSPF routers MUST NOT use TE Opaque LSA or
> 575	   OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA.  Instead, advertisement in the OSPFv2
> 576	   Extended Link Attributes LSAs or OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA MUST be used.
> 
> [major] (A similar statement was made in §8.1.)  Why?  Just as the
> cases from §8.1, the application may run my itself on the network,
> and/or the attributes may be fully congruent.
> 
> 578	   It is RECOMMENDED to advertise link-attributes for RSVP-TE in the
> 579	   existing TE LSAs.
> 
> [major] When is it ok to not do so?  IOW, why isn't it "REQUIRED"?
> I'm asking this question as a matter of process, but the conditions
> laid out in §8.1 seems to already answer the question.  As I mentioned
> above, the cases in this section seem to already be covered in §8.1.
> 
> 
> ##PP
> I hope all the above comments were addressed by reusing and modifying
> ISIS pieces as needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 581	11.  Security Considerations
> ...
> 591	   Implementations MUST assure that malformed TLV and Sub-TLV defined in
> 592	   this document are detected and do not provide a vulnerability for
> 593	   attackers to crash the OSPF router or routing process.  Reception of
> 594	   a malformed TLV or Sub-TLV SHOULD be counted and/or logged for
> 595	   further analysis.  Logging of malformed TLVs and Sub-TLVs SHOULD be
> 596	   rate-limited to prevent a Denial of Service (DoS) attack (distributed
> 597	   or otherwise) from overloading the OSPF control plane.
> 
> [major] "Implementations MUST assure that malformed TLV and Sub-TLV
> defined in this document are detected and do not provide a
> vulnerability for attackers to crash the OSPF router or routing
> process."  How can this be Normatively enforced?  How is the
> individual ability of an implementation to avoid crashes required for
> interoperability?  IOW, I don't think you can use "MUST" in the
> sentence above.  s/MUST/must
> 
> ##PP
> Above text is used in several OSPF RFCs -  rfc8476 being an example. I
> change to "must".
> 
> 
> [major] What about vulnerabilities introduced by this document?  This
> document doesn't define new TE-related attributes, just a new way to
> advertise them...perhaps include something like this:
> 
>      This document defines a new way to advertise already defined TE
> Attributes.
>      As the ASLA sub-TLV is not used for SPF computation or normal
> routing, the
>      extensions specified here have no direct effect on IP routing.
> Tampering
>      with the information defined in this document may have an effect on
>      applications using it, including potential sub-optimal Traffic
> Engineering.
>      This is not new...see [RFC5305], [RFC5307], [RFC6119], and [RFC8570].
> 
> And then there are other possible vulnerabilities introduced by the
> new encodings...  For example, a rogue router can render the data
> unusable by setting the incorrect bit-mask...  At best, this action
> could result in sub-optimal paths (by taking some links out of
> consideration)...  Consider adding text related to that.
> 
> ##PP
> I added the text similar to what is in the ISIS draft.
> 
> 
> 
> 599	12.  IANA Considerations
> 
> 601	12.1.  OSPFv2
> 
> 603	   OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV Sub-TLVs registry [RFC7684] defines sub-TLVs
> 604	   at any level of nesting for OSPFv2 Extended Link TLVs.  This
> 605	   specification updates OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV sub-TLVs registry with
> 606	   the following TLV types:
> 
> [nit] s/OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV/The OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> [major] s/This specification updates OSPFv2 Extended Link TLV sub-TLVs
> registry with the following TLV types:/IANA has assigned the following
> TLV types:
> 
> ##PP
> done
> ...
> 633	12.2.  OSPFv3
> 
> 635	   OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry [RFC8362] defines sub-TLVs at
> 636	   any level of nesting for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs.  This specification
> 637	   updates OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV Registry with the following TLV
> 638	   types:
> 
> [nit] s/OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV/The OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> [major] s/This specification updates OSPFv3 Extended LSA Sub-TLV
> Registry with the following TLV types:/IANA has assigned the following
> TLV types:
> 
> ##PP
> done
> 
> 
> ...
> 737	15.2.  Informative References
> 
> [major] These references should be Normative:
> 
> ##PP
> done.
> 
> thanks,
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 739	   [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]
> 740	              Ginsberg, L., Psenak, P., Previdi, S., Henderickx, W., and
> 741	              J. Drake, "IS-IS TE Attributes per application", draft-
> 742	              ietf-isis-te-app-08 (work in progress), October 2019.
> 
> 744	   [RFC2328]  Moy, J., "OSPF Version 2", STD 54, RFC 2328,
> 745	              DOI 10.17487/RFC2328, April 1998,
> 746	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc2328>.
> 
> 748	   [RFC4203]  Kompella, K., Ed. and Y. Rekhter, Ed., "OSPF Extensions in
> 749	              Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
> 750	              (GMPLS)", RFC 4203, DOI 10.17487/RFC4203, October 2005,
> 751	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc4203>.
> ...
> 776	   [RFC7471]  Giacalone, S., Ward, D., Drake, J., Atlas, A., and S.
> 777	              Previdi, "OSPF Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric
> 778	              Extensions", RFC 7471, DOI 10.17487/RFC7471, March 2015,
> 779	              <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7471>.
> 
>       [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-r…  Alvaro Retana
> 
> 
> 
> 



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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
To: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, gen-art@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi Elwyn,

please see inline:

On 06/05/2020 16:25, Elwyn Davies via Datatracker wrote:
> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
> Review result: Ready with Nits
> 
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
> like any other last call comments.
> 
> For more information, please see the FAQ at
> 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
> Review Date: 2020-05-06
> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
> IESG Telechat date: 2020-05-21
> 
> Summary:
> Ready with nits.  Aside:  I have to say that the convolutions and
> cross-referencing of doing the OSPF and IS-IS  extensions plus BGP-LS added to
> the cross-linking with MPLS is leading to mind-blowing complexity.  Sooner or
> later something is going to blow up here!
> 
> Major issues:
> None
> 
> Minor issues:
> None
> 
> Nits/editorial comments:
> 
> Abstract and title :  The application to BGP-LS (s5) is not mentioned in the
> abstract or the title.  Also the first use of BGP-LS needs to be expanded.

Why would the BGP-LS need to be mentioned in the abstract?

I have expanded the first use of BGP-LS

> 
> Abstract: s/tunnel/LSP/

done

> 
> s1: Suggest s/SR-MPLS/Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane/
> 
> s1: Query:  As a non-expert in this area, I was wondering if the signalling
> capability is or will be implemented in IS-IS?  A brief comment on the status
> wrt IS-IS would be helpful.  [It turns out that you already reference the
> document that implements this later in this draft.]

yes, it is being added to ISIS. Yes, this draft reference the ISIS 
draft. I see no reason to to include ISIS draft status in this document 
though.


> 
> s1, last sentence: s/it's/it is/

done

> 
> s3: It would be a good idea to expand 'prefix' to 'address prefix
> advertisement' on its first occurrence here.  Thereafter 'prefix' is fine by me.

"prefix" is being used in almost all OSPF and ISIS document, we never 
use address prefix.


> 
> s3, para 3: Why would a router not advertise the ELC with all prefixes?  Can
> you say why this ought not to be a MUST.

advertising ELC property with prefix advertisement is optional. We can
not mandate it. It would make all routers not advertising this data
violating this spec.

> 
> s4, para 3: In that case, what does the absence signify?  Should we care?

the absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements only indicates that a node
does not support advertisement of ERLD

It can not be interpreted that ERLD is not supported.  Old nodes that do
not advertise ERLD-MSD can not be assumed not to support non-zero ERLD.


> 
> s4, para 4:
> This needs a correction and a reference to where the Link MSD Sub-TLV is
> defined.  As a matter of interest, is there any reason why this should be sent
> in an OSPF context?  If not why not just prohibit sending it? If it is received
> should it provoke an error rather than being ignored? OLD: When the ERLD
> MSD-Type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV, it MUST be
> ignored. NEW:
>   When the ERLD-MSD type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV
>   [RFC8476], it MUST be ignored.

done.

> ENDS
> 
> s5:  This section needs to be rewritten to be 'future proof' rather than
> referring to the temporary allocations.  A note about the temporary allocations
> can be added with a RFC Editor note requesting its removal on final publication.

I suppose you meant section 6 - IANA Considerations.

I have updated the IANA section.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Thu May  7 02:17:42 2020
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
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CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:20:31 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMENcCK46A63FA_NPsh84Sv11FOgPe4JKAH3o+=hJgjXOQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/-uPWIRoBUacsY7YxoKbkCb4LNGk>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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--00000000000002d8cc05a50b6519
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Hey Jeff,

What if in your analysis A-D link metric is 1500 ? Still A will send to B !

See in all of this discussion from my pov it is not really about danger of
making LSDB inconsistent for much longer.

It is however about operator upgrading to new release a router, maybe even
reading release notes stating that flooding speed optimizations defined in
RFC ZZZ are implemented and final effect he sees are microloops lasting 10s
of seconds for his traffic.

Yes some vendors have good tools to protect from microloops, but those must
be enabled. Moreover those still require manual timer configuration how
long to keep loop free protection in place. And I am not aware any vendor
has a cli command showing how long it took in all routers in my area/level
to install in FIB result of various levels/cases of topology changes.

So I am not saying faster is not good. I am saying if you make car faster
do not forget to equip it with seat belts and make enough of warnings that
driver will actually fasten them.

Best,
R.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 6:41 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Robert,
>
> Assuming C and E provide access to the same set of destinations, that are
> closer of further away from C and E.
> B (which is fast), after it notifies A that it can=E2=80=99t reach C dire=
ctly will
> cause A to send traffic to D. D - dependent on total cost would start
> happily sending some traffic towards destinations behind C to B so LFA on=
 B
> wouldn=E2=80=99t really help.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>

--00000000000002d8cc05a50b6519
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hey Jeff,</div><div><br></div><div>What if in your an=
alysis A-D link metric is 1500 ? Still A will send to B !</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>See in all of this discussion from my pov it is not really about da=
nger of making LSDB inconsistent for much longer.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div=
><div>It is however about operator upgrading to new release a router, maybe=
 even reading release notes stating that flooding speed optimizations defin=
ed in RFC ZZZ are implemented and final effect he sees are microloops=C2=A0=
lasting 10s of seconds for his traffic.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Yes =
some vendors have good tools to protect from microloops, but those must be =
enabled. Moreover those still require manual timer configuration how long t=
o keep loop free protection in place. And I am not aware any vendor has a c=
li command=C2=A0showing how long it took in all routers in my area/level to=
 install in FIB result of various levels/cases of topology changes.=C2=A0</=
div><div><br></div><div>So I am not saying faster is not good. I am saying =
if you make car faster do not forget to equip it with seat belts and make e=
nough of=C2=A0warnings that driver will actually fasten them.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>R.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2=
020 at 6:41 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com"=
>jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div dir=3D"auto">Robert,<br>
<br>
Assuming C and E provide access to the same set of destinations, that are c=
loser of further away from C and E.<br>
B (which is fast), after it notifies A that it can=E2=80=99t reach C direct=
ly will cause A to send traffic to D. D - dependent on total cost would sta=
rt happily sending some traffic towards destinations behind C to B so LFA o=
n B wouldn=E2=80=99t really help.</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection"><br>
<div>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000002d8cc05a50b6519--


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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org,  "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Lsr] OSPFv3 Implementations of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc
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Dear lsr WG:

If you=E2=80=99ve been following the progress of this document, you will ha=
ve
noticed that it is already in IESG Evaluation.

IANA discovered a typo in the draft; the current text says "Bit 0x04 in the
"OSPFv3 Prefix Options (8 bits) registry has been assigned to the E-Flag
(ELC Flag)=E2=80=9D.   However, the value assigned by IANA is 0x40.


Does anyone have an OSPFv3 implementation of this document?  If so, which
value is used, 0x04 or 0x40?  Are there deployments?


The Shepherd report doesn=E2=80=99t mention any implementations, and with t=
he help
of the authors it has already been confirmed that cisco, Nokia and Huawei
don=E2=80=99t have an OSPFv3 implementation.


Please respond by COB on May 14.


Thanks!

Alvaro.

--0000000000005a531d05a50e9b08
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">Dear lsr WG:</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helv=
etica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,A=
rial;font-size:13px">If you=E2=80=99ve been following the progress of this =
document, you will have noticed that it is already in IESG Evaluation.</div=
><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">IANA discovered a typo =
in the draft; the current text says &quot;Bit 0x04 in the &quot;OSPFv3 Pref=
ix Options (8 bits) registry has been assigned to the E-Flag (ELC Flag)=E2=
=80=9D. =C2=A0 However, the value assigned by IANA is 0x40.=C2=A0</div><div=
 style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"fon=
t-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Does anyone have an OSPFv3 impleme=
ntation of this document?=C2=A0 If so, which value is used, 0x04 or 0x40?=
=C2=A0 Are there deployments?</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Aria=
l;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-=
size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13=
px">The Shepherd report doesn=E2=80=99t mention any implementations, and wi=
th the help of the authors it has already been confirmed that cisco, Nokia =
and Huawei don=E2=80=99t have an OSPFv3 implementation.</div><div style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:He=
lvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Please respond by COB on May 14.</div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Thanks!</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica,Arial;font-size:13px">Alvaro.</div></body></html>

--0000000000005a531d05a50e9b08--


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
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To: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Congestion (flow) control thoughts.
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Hi Xuesong,

> I agree that "minimal flooding time " is a good choice, which may =
differ from the traditional cc in layer 4, which is difficult to get the =
completion time for each flow.
> I am still a little confused about " fast brand X needs to not overrun =
slow brand Y while performing well with fast brand Z". Is this talking =
about interoperation between different company device, which may use =
different type of cc mechanism?


Yes, I=E2=80=99m talking about interoperability.=20

Normally, in this working group, interoperability implies that each =
implementation is sending and receiving correctly formatted packets and =
computing correctly. This particular item adds in one other degree of =
complexity: timeliness. An implementation must be able to go fast or =
slow, depending on the needs of the receiver.

Tony


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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Les,

=20
> I have specifically used an example where =E2=80=9Cmicroloop =
avoidance=E2=80=9D is not applicable. So I did not want to use the term =
=E2=80=9Cmicroloop=E2=80=9D but rather used =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so as =
not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=80=9D is a potential =
solution for the sub-optimal behavior.
> Hope you can appreciate that point.
> =20
> It would be easy enough to include more nodes in the topology which =
only support slow flooding. The end result would be the same.
> I have kept the example simple in the hopes we could more easily agree =
that what I describe can happen when not all nodes support faster =
flooding =E2=80=93 which is the only point I am trying to make. Whether =
the ratio of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small or about the same =
doesn=E2=80=99t eliminate the possibility that the same behavior could =
be seen =E2=80=93 though it might alter the location of the topology =
change which would be problematic.
> =20
> =46rom an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that what you =
really care about is whether packets get successfully forwarded or not. =
I am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assume forwarding =
behavior will be optimal when not all nodes support fast flooding.


Your point is well-made. There are certainly going to be topologies =
where making flooding faster would result in worse behavior.

However, the point is that there are also topologies where flooding =
faster would improve convergence. To support those, we must have faster =
flooding. Please focus on that goal.

Regards,
Tony



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Les,<div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I have specifically used an example =
where =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=80=9D is not applicable. So I did =
not want to use the term =E2=80=9Cmicroloop=E2=80=9D but rather used =
=E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so as not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop =
avoidance=E2=80=9D is a potential solution for the sub-optimal =
behavior.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hope you can appreciate that point.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">It would =
be easy enough to include more nodes in the topology which only support =
slow flooding. The end result would be the same.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I have =
kept the example simple in the hopes we could more easily agree that =
what I describe can happen when not all nodes support faster flooding =
=E2=80=93 which is the only point I am trying to make. Whether the ratio =
of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small or about the same doesn=E2=80=99t =
eliminate the possibility that the same behavior could be seen =E2=80=93 =
though it might alter the location of the topology change which would be =
problematic.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">=46rom an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that what =
you really care about is whether packets get successfully forwarded or =
not. I am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assume forwarding =
behavior will be optimal when not all nodes support fast =
flooding.</div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Your point is well-made. There are certainly going =
to be topologies where making flooding faster would result in worse =
behavior.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>However, the point is that =
there are also topologies where flooding faster would improve =
convergence. To support those, we must have faster flooding. Please =
focus on that goal.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Tony</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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From: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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--_000_7255730c312a40a1a2d36972095845a4nokiasbellcom_
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Hi authors:

After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know whether ther=
e is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SRH size with enabling fl=
ex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because without flex-algo we h=
ave to have a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enabl=
e flex-algo under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory=
 we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it sti=
ll meet TE requirement. So my question is whether the flex-algo can be used=
 as tool to reduce SRH size?



Cheers !

WANG Weibin

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi authors:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I wa=
nt to know whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SR=
H size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because=
 without flex-algo we have to have
 a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-algo=
 under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory we can eve=
n construct &nbsp;a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it still mee=
t TE requirement. So my question is whether
 the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Cheers !</span></i><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">WANG Weibin<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
To: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, "sarahchen@arista.com" <sarahchen@arista.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Questions about draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04
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Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 06:25:08 +0000
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Subject: [Lsr] Questions about draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04
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Hi Tony, Sarah

Thank you for your work about Flooding Reduction mechanism. I think it is v=
ery useful for IGP scalability.
When Sarah giving presentation for draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorith=
m-00 in LSR interim meeting, I raised a question about how to handle multip=
oint failure in the flooding topology. I remembered that draft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-04 was mentioned. I have read this draft, especially section =
6.8.11 and temporary flooding relevant content. I think it is a valid metho=
d logically. (We have tried to raise some examples to challenge this method=
, but in all these cases, this method works) Considering that reliability o=
f IGP is crucial for deployment, we are still wondering whether some mathem=
atical proof is necessary (or possible) to guarantee that, in all the possi=
ble scenarios, proper convergence could be achieved when using flooding red=
uction algorithm, just as traditional IGP mechanism. The proof may be case =
by case depending on the flooding reduction algorithm, but we think even so=
me example or clue about how to do this will be very helpful.

Best Regards
Xuesong


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<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">Hi Tony, Sarah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">Thank you for your work about Flooding Reduction mechanism.=
 I think it is very useful for IGP scalability.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">When Sarah giving presentation for draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-f=
looding-algorithm-00 in LSR interim meeting, I raised a question about how =
to handle multipoint failure in the flooding topology.
 I remembered that draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04 was mentioned. I have=
 read this draft, especially section 6.8.11 and temporary flooding relevant=
 content. I think it is a valid method logically. (We have tried to raise s=
ome examples to challenge this method,
 but in all these cases, this method works) Considering that reliability of=
 IGP is crucial for deployment, we are still wondering whether some mathema=
tical proof is necessary (or possible) to guarantee that, in all the possib=
le scenarios, proper convergence
 could be achieved when using flooding reduction algorithm, just as traditi=
onal IGP mechanism. The proof may be case by case depending on the flooding=
 reduction algorithm, but we think even some example or clue about how to d=
o this will be very helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph;line-height:15.75pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">Xuesong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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</body>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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Hi Wang,

You are correct. Though I wouldn't call it a goal but rather a benefit/adva=
ntage - same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can be reduced.

Thanks,
Ketan

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shangh=
ai)
Sent: 08 May 2020 19:07
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

Hi authors:

After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know whether ther=
e is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SRH size with enabling fl=
ex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because without flex-algo we h=
ave to have a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enabl=
e flex-algo under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory=
 we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it sti=
ll meet TE requirement. So my question is whether the flex-algo can be used=
 as tool to reduce SRH size?



Cheers !

WANG Weibin

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Wang,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You are c=
orrect. Though I wouldn&#8217;t call it a goal but rather a benefit/advanta=
ge &#8211; same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can be reduced.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ketan<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
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0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 May 2020 19:07<br>
<b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi authors:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After reading through this draf=
t lsr-flex-algo, I want to know whether there is a potential goal of this d=
raft to reduce the SRH size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv=
6 deployment, because without flex-algo
 we have to have a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we =
enable flex-algo under special topology and link constraint condition, in t=
heory we can even construct &nbsp;a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, =
but it still meet TE requirement. So
 my question is whether the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH siz=
e?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif">Cheers !</span></i><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;T=
imes New Roman&quot;,serif">WANG Weibin<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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From: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ketan, thank you for clarification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wang Weibin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;ketant@ci=
sco.com&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2020<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=
=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=C4=EA</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=D4=C2</sp=
an>9<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;=CE=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=
=DA&quot;,sans-serif">=C8=D5</span> 14:52<br>
<b>To:</b> Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com=
&gt;; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US">Hi Wang,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US">You are correct. Though I wouldn=A1=AFt call it a goal but rather a b=
enefit/advantage =A8C same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can be =
reduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:E=
N-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 May 2020 19:07<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi authors:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I wa=
nt to know whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SR=
H size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because=
 without flex-algo we have to have
 a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-algo=
 under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory we can eve=
n construct &nbsp;a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it still mee=
t TE requirement. So my question is whether
 the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Cheers !</span></i><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">WANG Weibin<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
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Hi Xuesong,


> Thank you for your work about Flooding Reduction mechanism. I think it =
is very useful for IGP scalability.


Thank you, we very much appreciate that.


> When Sarah giving presentation for =
draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00 in LSR interim meeting, I =
raised a question about how to handle multipoint failure in the flooding =
topology. I remembered that draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04 was =
mentioned. I have read this draft, especially section 6.8.11 and =
temporary flooding relevant content. I think it is a valid method =
logically. (We have tried to raise some examples to challenge this =
method, but in all these cases, this method works) Considering that =
reliability of IGP is crucial for deployment, we are still wondering =
whether some mathematical proof is necessary (or possible) to guarantee =
that, in all the possible scenarios, proper convergence could be =
achieved when using flooding reduction algorithm, just as traditional =
IGP mechanism. The proof may be case by case depending on the flooding =
reduction algorithm, but we think even some example or clue about how to =
do this will be very helpful.


A proof? Ok, I can try to be rigorous, but it=E2=80=99s been a very long =
time. I apologize in advance to Kireeti, Mr. Myers, Mr. Douglas, and =
Prof. Greever for what follows.


Definition: Let G=3D(V, E) be a finite graph. F=3D(V, E=E2=80=99) is a =
=E2=80=98flooding topology=E2=80=99 on G if E=E2=80=99 is a subset of E =
and F is connected.


We normally have other properties for flooding topologies, such as being =
bi-connected, relatively sparse, minimal diameter, and minimal degree, =
but those properties are not relevant for this proof.


Definition: Let C=3D(V*, E*), V* a subset of V, E* a subset of E, be the =
=E2=80=98cut=E2=80=99 of G. This represents the failures in the =
topology. Let G=E2=80=99 =3D G - C, the topology after failure, and let =
F=E2=80=99 =3D F - C, be the flooding topology after failure.=20


Definition: Let R =3D E - E* - E=E2=80=99. This is the set of 'recovery =
edges': edges that have not failed and are not part of the flooding =
topology.


Corollary: R is finite.=20

Proof: G is finite, by definition. Therefore E is finite, E* must be =
finite, and E=E2=80=99 is finite.


Lemma 1: If G=E2=80=99 is connected, then F=E2=80=99 + R is connected.

Proof:=20

G=E2=80=99 =3D G - C =3D (V, E) - (V*, E*) =3D (V - V*, E - E*). =20

F=E2=80=99 + R =3D (F - C) + (E - E* - E=E2=80=99) =3D (V, E=E2=80=99) - =
(V*, E*) + (E - E* - E=E2=80=99) =3D ( V - V*, E=E2=80=99 - E* ) + ( E - =
E* - E=E2=80=99) =3D ( V - V*, E=E2=80=99 - E* + E - E* - E=E2=80=99 ) =3D=
 ( V - V*, E - E* - E* ) =3D ( V - V*, E - E* ) =3D G=E2=80=99.

Q.E.D.


Lemma 2: If G=E2=80=99 is connected, then incrementally adding edges =
from R to F=E2=80=99 will yield a connected flooding topology.

Proof: By induction. Let R=E2=80=99 be a subset of R. Induction =
property: Either F' + R=E2=80=99 is connected, or R=E2=80=99 is a proper =
subset of R.

Base case: R=E2=80=99 is the empty set. If F=E2=80=99 is connected, then =
F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is connected and the property is satisfied. If =
F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is not connected, R=E2=80=99 is empty, which is =
a proper subset of R.

Induction case: Let r be a recovery edge in R - R=E2=80=99 (i.e., a new =
edge to add).  If F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is connected, then the =
property is satisfied already. If F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 + r is =
connected, the property is satisfied. If R=E2=80=99 + r =3D R, then by =
Lemma 1, the property is satisfied. Otherwise, R=E2=80=99 + r !=3D R, =
and the property is satisfied. By our corollary, the induction must =
terminate.

Q.E.D.



Bugs, questions, and comments are welcome.

Regards,
Tony


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Xuesong,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify; =
line-height: 15.75pt;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thank you for =
your work about Flooding Reduction mechanism. I think it is very useful =
for IGP scalability.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div>Thank you, we very much =
appreciate that.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify; line-height: 15.75pt;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify; line-height: 15.75pt;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">When Sarah giving presentation for =
draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00 in LSR interim meeting, I =
raised a question about how to handle multipoint failure in the flooding =
topology. I remembered that draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04 was =
mentioned. I have read this draft, especially section 6.8.11 and =
temporary flooding relevant content. I think it is a valid method =
logically. (We have tried to raise some examples to challenge this =
method, but in all these cases, this method works) Considering that =
reliability of IGP is crucial for deployment, we are still wondering =
whether some mathematical proof is necessary (or possible) to guarantee =
that, in all the possible scenarios, proper convergence could be =
achieved when using flooding reduction algorithm, just as traditional =
IGP mechanism. The proof may be case by case depending on the flooding =
reduction algorithm, but we think even some example or clue about how to =
do this will be very helpful.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>A proof? Ok, I can try =
to be rigorous, but it=E2=80=99s been a very long time. I apologize in =
advance to Kireeti, Mr. Myers, Mr. Douglas, and Prof. Greever for what =
follows.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Definition: Let G=3D(V, E) be a finite graph. =
F=3D(V, E=E2=80=99) is a =E2=80=98flooding topology=E2=80=99 on G if =
E=E2=80=99 is a subset of E and F is connected.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>We normally have other =
properties for flooding topologies, such as being bi-connected, =
relatively sparse, minimal diameter, and minimal degree, but those =
properties are not relevant for this proof.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Definition: Let C=3D(V*, =
E*), V* a subset of V, E* a subset of E, be the =E2=80=98cut=E2=80=99 of =
G. This represents the failures in the topology. Let G=E2=80=99 =3D G - =
C, the topology after failure, and let F=E2=80=99 =3D F - C, be the =
flooding topology after failure.&nbsp;</div><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Definition: Let R =3D E =
- E* - E=E2=80=99. This is the set of 'recovery edges': edges that have =
not failed and are not part of the flooding topology.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Corollary: R is finite.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Proof: G is finite, by definition. =
Therefore E is finite, E* must be finite, and E=E2=80=99 is =
finite.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Lemma 1: If G=E2=80=99 is connected, =
then F=E2=80=99 + R is connected.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Proof:&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">G=E2=80=99 =3D G - C =3D (V, E) - (V*, =
E*) =3D (V - V*, E - E*). &nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">F=E2=80=99 + R =3D (F - C) + (E - E* - =
E=E2=80=99) =3D (V, E=E2=80=99) - (V*, E*) + (E - E* - E=E2=80=99) =3D ( =
V - V*, E=E2=80=99 - E* ) + ( E - E* - E=E2=80=99) =3D ( V - V*, E=E2=80=99=
 - E* + E - E* - E=E2=80=99 ) =3D ( V - V*, E - E* - E* ) =3D ( V - V*, =
E - E* ) =3D G=E2=80=99.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Q.E.D.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Lemma 2: If G=E2=80=99 =
is connected, then incrementally adding edges from R to F=E2=80=99 will =
yield a connected flooding topology.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Proof: By induction. Let R=E2=80=99 be =
a subset of R. Induction property: Either F' + R=E2=80=99 is connected, =
or R=E2=80=99 is a proper subset of R.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Base case: R=E2=80=99 is the empty set. =
If F=E2=80=99 is connected, then F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is connected =
and the property is satisfied. If F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is not =
connected, R=E2=80=99 is empty, which is a proper subset of R.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Induction case: Let r be =
a recovery edge in R - R=E2=80=99 (i.e., a new edge to add). &nbsp;If =
F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 is connected, then the property is satisfied =
already. If F=E2=80=99 + R=E2=80=99 + r is connected, the property is =
satisfied. If R=E2=80=99 + r =3D R, then by Lemma 1, the property is =
satisfied. Otherwise, R=E2=80=99 + r !=3D R, and the property is =
satisfied. By our corollary, the induction must terminate.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Q.E.D.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Bugs, questions, and =
comments are welcome.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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References: <28938a998b384038b6dd513db00072cf@nokia-sbell.com>
Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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Weibin,

One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains, would be q=
uite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has implemented node capabilities=
 only, so all links on a node will have to be pruned.
The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with global view computing=
 a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS + PCEP scenario) vs buil=
ding a dynamic topology of connected nodes that meet a set of constrains, in=
 first case, change in topology/capabilities would cause path recalculation/=
reoptimization on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the topo=
logy locally.

Regards,
Jeff

> On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@no=
kia-sbell.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Ketan, thank you for clarification.
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Cheers!
> =20
> Wang Weibin
> =20
> From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>=20
> Sent: 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 14:52
> To: Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>; lsr@ie=
tf.org
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
> =20
> Hi Wang,
> =20
> You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goal but rather a ben=
efit/advantage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can b=
e reduced.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Ketan
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shang=
hai)
> Sent: 08 May 2020 19:07
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
> =20
> Hi authors:
> =20
> After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know whether the=
re is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SRH size with enabling fl=
ex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because without flex-algo we ha=
ve to have a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable f=
lex-algo under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory we c=
an even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it still mee=
t TE requirement. So my question is whether the flex-algo can be used as too=
l to reduce SRH size?
> =20
> =20
> =20
> Cheers !
> =20
> WANG Weibin
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Weibin,<div><br></div><div>One could have a=
n algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains, would be quite similar to c=
olored links. Note - ERLD has implemented node capabilities only, so all lin=
ks on a node will have to be pruned.</div><div>The tradeoffs are - having ce=
ntralized controller with global view computing a path that meets the constr=
aints(classical BGP-LS + PCEP scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of co=
nnected nodes that meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in topolo=
gy/capabilities would cause path recalculation/reoptimization on the PCE whi=
le in the second - IGP would recompute the topology locally.</div><div><br><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &=
lt;weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ketan, thank you for clarification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wang Weibin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;ketant@cis=
co.com&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2020<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=
=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=B9=B4</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,s=
ans-serif">=E6=9C=88</span>9<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;=
=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=A5</span> 14:5=
2<br>
<b>To:</b> Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com&=
gt;; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Hi Wang,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goal but rather a b=
enefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can=
 be reduced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ie=
tf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 May 2020 19:07<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi authors:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I wan=
t to know whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SRH s=
ize with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because wit=
hout flex-algo we have to have
 a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-algo u=
nder special topology and link constraint condition, in theory we can even c=
onstruct &nbsp;a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it still meet TE=
 requirement. So my question is whether
 the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&q=
uot;,serif">Cheers !</span></i><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
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From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" <gengxuesong@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Questions about draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-04
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--_004_5fae04a3f0c5429f84af69f3ba001abfhuaweicom_--


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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
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COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work put into this document. The document is easy to read.

Please find below one non-blocking COMMENTs and two NITs.

I hope that this helps to improve the document,

Regards,

-éric

== COMMENT ==

For my own curiosity, is there a possibility that a router receives conflicting
node capability via OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 (assuming that both are running over the
same network and using the same router-ID over OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) ?

== NITS ==

-- section 4 --
The "one" is ambiguous in "the router MUST advertise the smallest one." even if
we can guess that it is not "interface" ;-)

-- Sections 3 & 4 --
Is there a meaningful difference between the "advertizing" of section 3 and the
"signaling" of section 4?




From nobody Mon May 11 09:03:21 2020
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COMMENT:
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Thank you for the work put into this document. The document is easy to read.

Like other ADs, I wonder why the IS-IS and OSPF are separate documents.

Please find below one NIT.

I hope that this helps to improve the document,

Regards,

-éric

== NIT ==

-- section 4 --
The "one" is ambiguous in "the router MUST advertise the smallest one." even if
we can guess that it is not "interface" ;-)




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Hi Xuesong,

> Thank you for giving detailed proof, and it is very helpful to =
understand the mechanism.
> As I understand, it is showed in the proof that if there is proper =
temporary flooding in R =3D E - E* - E=E2=80=99, same connectivity could =
be achieved by the flooding topology F=E2=80=99 just as G=E2=80=99. I =
agree with this.


I=E2=80=99m glad it helped.


> The problem for me now is how to enable the temporary flooding =
properly.
> Here is an example:
> <image001.png>
> The solid line presents the physical link inside flooding topology, =
and the dashed line presents the physical link out of flooding topology.
> =46rom the view of me, when multipoint failure happens, node 3 is =
supposed to enable the temporary flooding between 3 and 4, in order to =
connect with the nodes inside the red box, while the other dashed line =
between node 1 and node nobody is not supposed to do temporary flooding =
although node 1 is connected to the failed link directly.
> It seems a little unclear for me about how the node itself could =
decide whether a dashed line should do temporary flooding or not in this =
case.


The problem that you=E2=80=99re asking about is partition detection.

To explain this, I=E2=80=99ve taken the liberty of adding some more =
labels to your diagram.

To start, each node has its link state database and the flooding =
topology.  Each node should receive link state updates from nodes in its =
partition, but will not receive updates from other nodes, thus the link =
state database is partially inconsistent and must be treated with care.

For example, node 2 will see updates from nodes 1, 6, and 7, informing =
it of the failure, but it will not receive an update from node 8.

Now, the job of each node is try to compute the partitions of the =
flooding topology.  In particular, each node needs to understand which =
nodes are in its partition. A node cannot know all of the partitions =
that exist, but it turns out that that=E2=80=99s irrelevant.

Once a node understands which nodes are in its partition, then it is a =
simple matter to see which links should be enabled for temporary =
flooding.  If a neighbor is in the same partition (e.g., nodes 1 and 5), =
then adding the link adds no value. If the neighbor is not in the same =
partition (e.g., nodes 3 and 4), then it becomes a recovery link.

The actual computation of the partitions is straightforward, with one =
caveat: we always want to perform a two-way check for connectivity.  An =
implementation should be doing this during SPF already, so this should =
be familiar. The reason for doing this is quite clear: in node 2=E2=80=99s=
 link state database (LSDB), the LSP for node 8 will show connectivity =
to node 1 even after the failure. However, node 1=E2=80=99s LSP will =
clearly show that the adjacency has failed.  We can only infer =
connectivity when we see both sides of the adjacency are up.

Given this, the specific algorithm that you choose is an implementation =
detail.  You could do a breadth-first search or a depth-first search. =
Our implementation chooses to walk the entire flooding topology, =
building a tree of the partitions that it detects. [IPR note: we have a =
IPR claim for this approach, with the =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t sue us, we =
won=E2=80=99t sue you=E2=80=9D terms.]

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Tony



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Xuesong,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Thank you for giving detailed proof, and =
it is very helpful to understand the mechanism.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">As I understand, it is =
showed in the proof that if there is proper temporary flooding in R =3D =
E - E* - E=E2=80=99, same connectivity could be achieved by the flooding =
topology F=E2=80=99 just as G=E2=80=99. I agree with =
this.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div>I=E2=80=99m glad it =
helped.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D"">The problem for me now is how to enable the temporary =
flooding properly.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">Here is an =
example:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><span =
id=3D"cid:image001.png@01D627D9.8B8E3EB0">&lt;image001.png&gt;</span></spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">The solid line presents =
the physical link inside flooding topology, and the dashed line presents =
the physical link out of flooding topology.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">=46rom the view of me, =
when multipoint failure happens, node 3 is supposed to enable the =
temporary flooding between 3 and 4, in order to connect with the nodes =
inside the red box, while the other dashed line between node 1 and node =
nobody is not supposed to do temporary flooding although node 1 is =
connected to the failed link directly.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">It seems a little =
unclear for me about how the node itself could decide whether a dashed =
line should do temporary flooding or not in this case.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
problem that you=E2=80=99re asking about is partition =
detection.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">To =
explain this, I=E2=80=99ve taken the liberty of adding some more labels =
to your diagram.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">To start, each node has its link state database and the =
flooding topology. &nbsp;Each node should receive link state updates =
from nodes in its partition, but will not receive updates from other =
nodes, thus the link state database is partially inconsistent and must =
be treated with care.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">For example, node 2 will see updates from nodes 1, 6, and 7, =
informing it of the failure, but it will not receive an update from node =
8.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Now, the =
job of each node is try to compute the partitions of the flooding =
topology. &nbsp;In particular, each node needs to understand which nodes =
are in its partition. A node cannot know all of the partitions that =
exist, but it turns out that that=E2=80=99s irrelevant.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Once a node understands =
which nodes are in its partition, then it is a simple matter to see =
which links should be enabled for temporary flooding. &nbsp;If a =
neighbor is in the same partition (e.g., nodes 1 and 5), then adding the =
link adds no value. If the neighbor is not in the same partition (e.g., =
nodes 3 and 4), then it becomes a recovery link.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The actual computation of the =
partitions is straightforward, with one caveat: we always want to =
perform a two-way check for connectivity. &nbsp;An implementation should =
be doing this during SPF already, so this should be familiar. The reason =
for doing this is quite clear: in node 2=E2=80=99s link state database =
(LSDB), the LSP for node 8 will show connectivity to node 1 even after =
the failure. However, node 1=E2=80=99s LSP will clearly show that the =
adjacency has failed. &nbsp;We can only infer connectivity when we see =
both sides of the adjacency are up.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Given this, the specific algorithm that =
you choose is an implementation detail. &nbsp;You could do a =
breadth-first search or a depth-first search. Our implementation chooses =
to walk the entire flooding topology, building a tree of the partitions =
that it detects. [IPR note: we have a IPR claim for this approach, with =
the =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t sue us, we won=E2=80=99t sue you=E2=80=9D =
terms.]</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I hope =
this helps.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><img=
 apple-inline=3D"yes" id=3D"FBBC20E8-042E-4B67-B905-1524B3928E01" =
src=3D"cid:F83CE6E7-95F2-41DF-AE50-C462FB6E535B" =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Hi Eric,

please see inline:

On 11/05/2020 18:02, Éric Vyncke via Datatracker wrote:
> Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Thank you for the work put into this document. The document is easy to read.
> 
> Like other ADs, I wonder why the IS-IS and OSPF are separate documents.

Alvaro has responded to similar query from Barry Leiba.

> 
> Please find below one NIT.
> 
> I hope that this helps to improve the document,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -éric
> 
> == NIT ==
> 
> -- section 4 --
> The "one" is ambiguous in "the router MUST advertise the smallest one." even if
> we can guess that it is not "interface" ;-)

ok, what would you like to say instead "one"?

Would this be better:

If a router has multiple interfaces with different capabilities of 
reading the maximum label stack depth, the router MUST advertise the 
smallest value found across all of its interfaces.

thanks,
Peter


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Hi Eric,

please see inline:

On 11/05/2020 17:55, Éric Vyncke via Datatracker wrote:
> Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Thank you for the work put into this document. The document is easy to read.
> 
> Please find below one non-blocking COMMENTs and two NITs.
> 
> I hope that this helps to improve the document,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -éric
> 
> == COMMENT ==
> 
> For my own curiosity, is there a possibility that a router receives conflicting
> node capability via OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 (assuming that both are running over the
> same network and using the same router-ID over OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) ?

that would be a bug likely, as the capability is not specific to any of 
the protocol and they only act as messengers. But we can not mandate any 
cross protocols checking either.

> 
> == NITS ==
> 
> -- section 4 --
> The "one" is ambiguous in "the router MUST advertise the smallest one." even if
> we can guess that it is not "interface" ;-)
> 
> -- Sections 3 & 4 --
> Is there a meaningful difference between the "advertizing" of section 3 and the
> "signaling" of section 4?

not really. In IGPs we tend to use "advertise" more. If you prefer, I 
can change all to "advertise" or to "signal" for consistency.

thanks,
Peter



> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Mon May 11 11:08:10 2020
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To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, gen-art@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
References: <158877512992.25308.14489968716385236242@ietfa.amsl.com> <5f206fd3-8918-9c1f-e403-8591c54acf83@cisco.com>
From: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/L1QK4gU1a-tLjNLr51ZWfYcRFEg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi, Peter.

In the light of some of your responses here, I would just like to 
clarify that one of the reasons for gen-art reviews is to try and make 
extremely complicated technical documents more accessible for those who 
are not as deeply embedded in the jargon and technicalities of the 
subject as well as making sure that readers can quickly determine 
whether a document is relevant to work that they are doing.

Please take this into account when considering your further actions.

Note that the optionality of ERLD-MSD advertisements appears on 
reflection to be a more serious issue than just an editorial nit.

Regards,

Elwyn

On 07/05/2020 08:53, Peter Psenak wrote:

> Hi Elwyn,
>
> please see inline:
>
> On 06/05/2020 16:25, Elwyn Davies via Datatracker wrote:
>> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
>> Review result: Ready with Nits
>>
>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
>> like any other last call comments.
>>
>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>>
>> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>
>> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
>> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
>> Review Date: 2020-05-06
>> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
>> IESG Telechat date: 2020-05-21
>>
>> Summary:
>> Ready with nits.  Aside:  I have to say that the convolutions and
>> cross-referencing of doing the OSPF and IS-IS  extensions plus BGP-LS 
>> added to
>> the cross-linking with MPLS is leading to mind-blowing complexity.  
>> Sooner or
>> later something is going to blow up here!
>>
>> Major issues:
>> None
>>
>> Minor issues:
>> None
>>
>> Nits/editorial comments:
>>
>> Abstract and title :  The application to BGP-LS (s5) is not mentioned 
>> in the
>> abstract or the title.  Also the first use of BGP-LS needs to be 
>> expanded.
>
> Why would the BGP-LS need to be mentioned in the abstract?
At present BGP-LS is the subject of a separate document and this 
document extends the BGP add-on called BGP-LS as well as OSPF v2 and 
v3.  It is therefor important that implementers of BGP-LS can easily 
find documents that are relevant to their work.
>
> I have expanded the first use of BGP-LS
>
>>
>> Abstract: s/tunnel/LSP/
>
> done
>
>>
>> s1: Suggest s/SR-MPLS/Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane/
>>
>> s1: Query:  As a non-expert in this area, I was wondering if the 
>> signalling
>> capability is or will be implemented in IS-IS?  A brief comment on 
>> the status
>> wrt IS-IS would be helpful.  [It turns out that you already reference 
>> the
>> document that implements this later in this draft.]
>
> yes, it is being added to ISIS. Yes, this draft reference the ISIS 
> draft. I see no reason to to include ISIS draft status in this 
> document though.
As has been mentioned in other reviews of this document and the 
corresponding IS-IS document, having two documents that cover this 
extension is not very desirable.  As a non-expert, but who knows that 
OSPF and IS-IS provide closely related functionality, one gets to this 
point in the document and wonders why OSPF and not IS-IS. If the WG does 
not bite the bullet and combine the drafts, it would be highly desirable 
to point out that the same functionality is being proposed for all three 
protocols
>
>
>>
>> s1, last sentence: s/it's/it is/
>
> done
>
>>
>> s3: It would be a good idea to expand 'prefix' to 'address prefix
>> advertisement' on its first occurrence here.  Thereafter 'prefix' is 
>> fine by me.
>
> "prefix" is being used in almost all OSPF and ISIS document, we never 
> use address prefix.
Really? Revisiting RFC 2328 (OSPFv2) we see that prefix is not used at 
all and in RFC 5340 (OSPF for IPv6)  the term prefix is introduced as 
'IP address prefix'.  In order to make it clear of what this is a 
prefix, and what is going on here, expanding the initial usage is highly 
desirable.
>
>
>>
>> s3, para 3: Why would a router not advertise the ELC with all 
>> prefixes?  Can
>> you say why this ought not to be a MUST.
>
> advertising ELC property with prefix advertisement is optional. We can
> not mandate it. It would make all routers not advertising this data
> violating this spec.
Er, no.  Nothing is said or would be said about routers that do not 
support ELC at all or do not support it on all interfaces.  I am 
assuming that it is not intended to make implementation of this 
capability mandatory in all OSPF deployments. I was trying to understand 
why a router that satisfies the previous condition so that it is 
legitimate for it to announce ELC with any IP address prefix might wish 
to only announce it with some prefixes and not others.  This is an 
interesting question for implementers as the SHOULD implies that an 
implementation has to provide a configuration option on a per prefix basis
>
>>
>> s4, para 3: In that case, what does the absence signify?  Should we 
>> care?
>
> the absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements only indicates that a node
> does not support advertisement of ERLD
>
> It can not be interpreted that ERLD is not supported.  Old nodes that do
> not advertise ERLD-MSD can not be assumed not to support non-zero ERLD.
>
There are just too many negatives in this last sentence!  OK.. so if the 
router does not suport ERLD-MSD advertisements what can or must the 
ingress router do to usefully position ELs it is intending to send that 
might pass through this router?  On further reflection, it seems to me 
that either there should be some sort of default value for the label 
stack depth that would otherwise be distributed with ERLD-MSD or routers 
that support ELs MUST advertise the depth they support.

This is looking rather like an issue rather than just a nit.

>
>>
>> s4, para 4:
>> This needs a correction and a reference to where the Link MSD Sub-TLV is
>> defined.  As a matter of interest, is there any reason why this 
>> should be sent
>> in an OSPF context?  If not why not just prohibit sending it? If it 
>> is received
>> should it provoke an error rather than being ignored? OLD: When the ERLD
>> MSD-Type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV, it 
>> MUST be
>> ignored. NEW:
>>   When the ERLD-MSD type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD 
>> Sub-TLV
>>   [RFC8476], it MUST be ignored.
>
> done.
Did you address the question of whether should actually provoke an error 
since it appears to be a protocol error?
>
>> ENDS
>>
>> s5:  This section needs to be rewritten to be 'future proof' rather than
>> referring to the temporary allocations.  A note about the temporary 
>> allocations
>> can be added with a RFC Editor note requesting its removal on final 
>> publication.
>
> I suppose you meant section 6 - IANA Considerations.
Yes, I did.  Sorry.
>
> I have updated the IANA section.
Good.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


From nobody Mon May 11 11:15:18 2020
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To: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, gen-art@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Hi Elwyn,

please see inline (##PP)


On 11/05/2020 19:37, Elwyn Davies wrote:
> Hi, Peter.
> 
> In the light of some of your responses here, I would just like to
> clarify that one of the reasons for gen-art reviews is to try and make
> extremely complicated technical documents more accessible for those who
> are not as deeply embedded in the jargon and technicalities of the
> subject as well as making sure that readers can quickly determine
> whether a document is relevant to work that they are doing.
> 
> Please take this into account when considering your further actions.
> 
> Note that the optionality of ERLD-MSD advertisements appears on
> reflection to be a more serious issue than just an editorial nit.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Elwyn
> 
> On 07/05/2020 08:53, Peter Psenak wrote:
> 
>> Hi Elwyn,
>>
>> please see inline:
>>
>> On 06/05/2020 16:25, Elwyn Davies via Datatracker wrote:
>>> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
>>> Review result: Ready with Nits
>>>
>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
>>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
>>> like any other last call comments.
>>>
>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>>>
>>> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>
>>> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
>>> Reviewer: Elwyn Davies
>>> Review Date: 2020-05-06
>>> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
>>> IESG Telechat date: 2020-05-21
>>>
>>> Summary:
>>> Ready with nits.  Aside:  I have to say that the convolutions and
>>> cross-referencing of doing the OSPF and IS-IS  extensions plus BGP-LS
>>> added to
>>> the cross-linking with MPLS is leading to mind-blowing complexity.
>>> Sooner or
>>> later something is going to blow up here!
>>>
>>> Major issues:
>>> None
>>>
>>> Minor issues:
>>> None
>>>
>>> Nits/editorial comments:
>>>
>>> Abstract and title :  The application to BGP-LS (s5) is not mentioned
>>> in the
>>> abstract or the title.  Also the first use of BGP-LS needs to be
>>> expanded.
>>
>> Why would the BGP-LS need to be mentioned in the abstract?
> At present BGP-LS is the subject of a separate document and this
> document extends the BGP add-on called BGP-LS as well as OSPF v2 and
> v3.  It is therefor important that implementers of BGP-LS can easily
> find documents that are relevant to their work.

##PP
not that I necessarily agree, but let me add it.

>>
>> I have expanded the first use of BGP-LS
>>
>>>
>>> Abstract: s/tunnel/LSP/
>>
>> done
>>
>>>
>>> s1: Suggest s/SR-MPLS/Segment Routing with the MPLS Data Plane/
>>>
>>> s1: Query:  As a non-expert in this area, I was wondering if the
>>> signalling
>>> capability is or will be implemented in IS-IS?  A brief comment on
>>> the status
>>> wrt IS-IS would be helpful.  [It turns out that you already reference
>>> the
>>> document that implements this later in this draft.]
>>
>> yes, it is being added to ISIS. Yes, this draft reference the ISIS
>> draft. I see no reason to to include ISIS draft status in this
>> document though.
> As has been mentioned in other reviews of this document and the
> corresponding IS-IS document, having two documents that cover this
> extension is not very desirable.  As a non-expert, but who knows that
> OSPF and IS-IS provide closely related functionality, one gets to this
> point in the document and wonders why OSPF and not IS-IS. If the WG does
> not bite the bullet and combine the drafts, it would be highly desirable
> to point out that the same functionality is being proposed for all three
> protocols

##PP

Alvaro has responded to this already. Please have a look at his response 
to Barry Leiba's comments.

All I would add is that we have had many separate RFCs for OSPF and ISIS 
specifying the same functional extension in the past. I see no reason 
why that would suddenly became an issue.



>>
>>
>>>
>>> s1, last sentence: s/it's/it is/
>>
>> done
>>
>>>
>>> s3: It would be a good idea to expand 'prefix' to 'address prefix
>>> advertisement' on its first occurrence here.  Thereafter 'prefix' is
>>> fine by me.
>>
>> "prefix" is being used in almost all OSPF and ISIS document, we never
>> use address prefix.
> Really? Revisiting RFC 2328 (OSPFv2) we see that prefix is not used at
> all and in RFC 5340 (OSPF for IPv6)  the term prefix is introduced as
> 'IP address prefix'.  In order to make it clear of what this is a
> prefix, and what is going on here, expanding the initial usage is highly
> desirable.


well, one can argue that we have "OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV", not the 
"OSPFv2 Extended Address Prefix TLV" and "OSPFv3 PrefixOptions" rather 
than "OSPFv3 AddressPrefixOptions"

>>
>>
>>>
>>> s3, para 3: Why would a router not advertise the ELC with all
>>> prefixes?  Can
>>> you say why this ought not to be a MUST.
>>
>> advertising ELC property with prefix advertisement is optional. We can
>> not mandate it. It would make all routers not advertising this data
>> violating this spec.
> Er, no.  Nothing is said or would be said about routers that do not
> support ELC at all or do not support it on all interfaces.  I am
> assuming that it is not intended to make implementation of this
> capability mandatory in all OSPF deployments. I was trying to understand
> why a router that satisfies the previous condition so that it is
> legitimate for it to announce ELC with any IP address prefix might wish
> to only announce it with some prefixes and not others.  This is an
> interesting question for implementers as the SHOULD implies that an
> implementation has to provide a configuration option on a per prefix basis


##PP
I don't see a problem. We can not mandate the advertisement of something 
that is optional.



>>
>>>
>>> s4, para 3: In that case, what does the absence signify?  Should we
>>> care?
>>
>> the absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements only indicates that a node
>> does not support advertisement of ERLD
>>
>> It can not be interpreted that ERLD is not supported.  Old nodes that do
>> not advertise ERLD-MSD can not be assumed not to support non-zero ERLD.
>>
> There are just too many negatives in this last sentence!  OK.. so if the
> router does not suport ERLD-MSD advertisements what can or must the
> ingress router do to usefully position ELs it is intending to send that
> might pass through this router?  

##PP
What to do is not protocol specific and can not be specified in protocol 
drafts that specify hoe to advertise the ERLD value. Please note that 
ERLD is NOT used by protocols.

> On further reflection, it seems to me
> that either there should be some sort of default value for the label
> stack depth that would otherwise be distributed with ERLD-MSD or routers
> that support ELs MUST advertise the depth they support.

##PP
I don't see how we can suddenly start to mandate this.

> 
> This is looking rather like an issue rather than just a nit.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> s4, para 4:
>>> This needs a correction and a reference to where the Link MSD Sub-TLV is
>>> defined.  As a matter of interest, is there any reason why this
>>> should be sent
>>> in an OSPF context?  If not why not just prohibit sending it? If it
>>> is received
>>> should it provoke an error rather than being ignored? OLD: When the ERLD
>>> MSD-Type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD Sub-TLV, it
>>> MUST be
>>> ignored. NEW:
>>>    When the ERLD-MSD type is received in the OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 Link MSD
>>> Sub-TLV
>>>    [RFC8476], it MUST be ignored.
>>
>> done.
> Did you address the question of whether should actually provoke an error
> since it appears to be a protocol error?

##PP
I replaced it with your proposed text.

thanks,
Peter

>>
>>> ENDS
>>>
>>> s5:  This section needs to be rewritten to be 'future proof' rather than
>>> referring to the temporary allocations.  A note about the temporary
>>> allocations
>>> can be added with a RFC Editor note requesting its removal on final
>>> publication.
>>
>> I suppose you meant section 6 - IANA Considerations.
> Yes, I did.  Sorry.
>>
>> I have updated the IANA section.
> Good.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 


From nobody Mon May 11 12:18:43 2020
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 19:18:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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--_004_cd7fb45d780b472687fdf9ee4e1f032ehuaweicom_--


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-10
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On May 5, 2020 at 6:08:27 AM, Peter Psenak wrote:


Peter:

Hi!


...
> I tried to address all of them, some have been resolved during ISIS
> draft review, in which case I took the same resolution for this draf.
>
> Please see inline, look for ##PP


There's only one outstanding comment that I don't think was answered
-- or at least I missed the meaning of the answer. =C2=A0Please see below.


I am also including some comments based on -11. =C2=A0Except for the
Normative language in =C2=A712.1, all the comments are basically
nits/suggestions.


I am starting the IETF Last Call for this document and
draft-ietf-isis-te-app. =C2=A0We can work on these remaining comments while
we do that.

Thanks!

Alvaro.



...
> 434 6. Local Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLV
>
> [major] The Local/Remote Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLVs (rfc5329) can
> include multiple addresses for a link. It seems to me that it could
> be possible for different applications to use different addresses. If
> that is the case, then it seems that these sub-TLVs should not be
> application independent. Why are they not considered to be
> application specific?
>
> [minor] Why are IPv4 addresses not considered?
>
> ##PP
> IPv4 local address is part of the basic spec.
> IPv6 remote address has been added in rfc8379.

For IPv4: what basic spec?

For IPv6: rfc8379 doesn=E2=80=99t seem to relate to the questions =E2=80=94=
 am I
missing something?





[Line numbers from idnits]

draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11

...
168	4.1. =C2=A0OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA
...
184	 =C2=A0 3. =C2=A0There is clear distinction between link attributes use=
d by RSVP-
185	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 TE and link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or OS=
PFv3
186	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 applications.

[nit] s/is clear distinction/is a clear distinction


...
203	 =C2=A0 TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue use OSPFv2 T=
E
204	 =C2=A0 Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].

[nit] s/continue use/continue to use


...
213	5. =C2=A0Advertisement of Application Specific Values
...
252	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SABM Length: Standard Application Identifier Bit-M=
ask Length in
253	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0octets. =C2=A0The legal values are 0, 4 or 8. =C2=
=A0If the Standard
254	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Application Bit-Mask is not present, the Standard =
Application Bit-
255	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mask Length MUST be set to 0.

257	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0UDABM Length: User Defined Application Identifier =
Bit-Mask Length
258	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in octets. =C2=A0The legal values are 0, 4 or 8. =
=C2=A0If the User Defined
259	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Application Bit-Mask is not present, the User Defi=
ned Application
260	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bit-Mask Length MUST be set to 0.

[minor] "The legal values are 0, 4 or 8." =C2=A0Should the statement be
Normative ("MUST be...")? =C2=A0I know there is a sentence below about
ignoring the sub-TLV if a different value is received -- IOW, just a
suggestion.


...
319	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Unidirectional Link Dela [RFC7471]

321	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay [RFC7471]
322	 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Unidirectional Delay Variation [RFC7471]

[nit] There seems to be a line missing...


...
532	12.1. =C2=A0Use of Legacy RSVP-TE LSA Advertisements

534	 =C2=A0 Bit Identifiers for Standard Applications are defined in Sectio=
n 5.
535	 =C2=A0 All of the identifiers defined in this document are associated =
with
536	 =C2=A0 applications which were already deployed in some networks prior=
 to
537	 =C2=A0 the writing of this document. =C2=A0Therefore, such application=
s have been
538	 =C2=A0 deployed using the RSVP-TE LSA advertisements. =C2=A0The Standa=
rd
539	 =C2=A0 Applications defined in this document MAY continue to use RSVP-=
TE LSA
540	 =C2=A0 advertisements for a given link so long as at least one of the
541	 =C2=A0 following conditions is true:

[major] s/MAY/may


...
651	12.3.4. =C2=A0Use of Application Specific Advertisements for RSVP-TE

653	 =C2=A0 The extensions defined in this document support RSVP-TE as one =
of the
654	 =C2=A0 supported applications. =C2=A0It is however RECOMMENDED to adve=
rtise all
655	 =C2=A0 link-attributes for RSVP-TE in the existing OSPFv2 TE Opaque LS=
A
656	 =C2=A0 [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329] to maintain ba=
ckward
657	 =C2=A0 compatibility. =C2=A0RSVP-TE can eventually utilize the applica=
tion
658	 =C2=A0 specific advertisements for newly defined link attributes, whic=
h are
659	 =C2=A0 defined as application specific.

[minor] "It is however RECOMMENDED to advertise all link-attributes
for RSVP-TE in the existing..." =C2=A0The application specific
advertisements can be used and result in duplicate information. =C2=A0The
ISIS draft includes some sample steps to eliminate redundancy and get
rid of the legacy advertisements -- can we add something similar here?


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Subject: [Lsr] Considerations for Extended TE Metrics (draft-ietf-isis-te-app)
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Dear authors:


When reviewing the updates to draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11, I
noticed the following difference with respect to
draft-ietf-isis-te-app-12:


[] draft-ietf-isis-te-app-12:

437	4.2.3. =C2=A0Considerations for Extended TE Metrics

439	 =C2=A0 [RFC8570] defines a number of dynamic performance metrics assoc=
iated
440	 =C2=A0 with a link. =C2=A0It is conceivable that such metrics could be=
 measured
441	 =C2=A0 specific to traffic associated with a specific application.
442	 =C2=A0 Therefore this document includes support for advertising these =
link
443	 =C2=A0 attributes specific to a given application. =C2=A0However, in p=
ractice it
444	 =C2=A0 may well be more practical to have these metrics reflect the
445	 =C2=A0 performance of all traffic on the link regardless of applicatio=
n. =C2=A0In
446	 =C2=A0 such cases, advertisements for these attributes will be associa=
ted
447	 =C2=A0 with all of the applications utilizing that link.


[] draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11:

449	8. =C2=A0Considerations for Extended TE Metrics

451	 =C2=A0 [RFC7471] defines a number of dynamic performance metrics assoc=
iated
452	 =C2=A0 with a link. =C2=A0It is conceivable that such metrics could be=
 measured
453	 =C2=A0 specific to traffic associated with a specific application.
454	 =C2=A0 Therefore this document includes support for advertising these =
link
455	 =C2=A0 attributes specific to a given application. =C2=A0However, in p=
ractice it
456	 =C2=A0 may well be more practical to have these metrics reflect the
457	 =C2=A0 performance of all traffic on the link regardless of applicatio=
n. =C2=A0In
458	 =C2=A0 such cases, advertisements for these attributes can be associat=
ed
459	 =C2=A0 with all of the applications utilizing that link, for example, =
by
460	 =C2=A0 listing all applications in the Application Bit-Mask.



The difference is in the last sentence: the OSPF draft points at how
the user can associate the attributes with all the
applications...while the ISIS draft just says that the "attributes
will be associated with all of the applications".

I'm assuming that the ISIS operation is similar: the new sub-TLV would
have to include all the appropriate bits in the Application Bit-Mask.
Is that a correct assumption, or will ISIS behave differently?

Please clarify the text in the ISIS draft.


As I mentioned in the thread about draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse,
I am starting the IETF Last Call for both documents. =C2=A0We can work on
this clarification during that time.


Thanks!

Alvaro.


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Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 10:42:14 -0700
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/c0NkeIajnGVl6oO7WS9fDTYhbh4>
Subject: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-isis-te-app-12.txt> (IS-IS TE Attributes per application) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Link State Routing WG (lsr) to
consider the following document: - 'IS-IS TE Attributes per application'
  <draft-ietf-isis-te-app-12.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-05-29. Exceptionally, comments may
be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning
of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
   original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
   Segment Routing Traffic Engineering, Loop Free Alternate) have been
   defined which also make use of the link attribute advertisements.  In
   cases where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
   attributes the current advertisements do not support application
   specific values for a given attribute nor do they support indication
   of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
   link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements
   which address both of these shortcomings.





The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-te-app/



No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.






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Subject: [Lsr] Last Call: <draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11.txt> (OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute Reuse) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Link State Routing WG (lsr) to
consider the following document: - 'OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute
Reuse'
  <draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11.txt> as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-05-29. Exceptionally, comments may
be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning
of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
   original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
   Segment Routing Traffic Engineering, Loop Free Alternate) have been
   defined which also make use of the link attribute advertisements.  In
   cases where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
   attributes the current advertisements do not support application
   specific values for a given attribute nor do they support indication
   of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
   link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements in
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 which address both of these shortcomings.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/



No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.






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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>,  Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
Cc: "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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--000000000000cb044b05a5a0f296
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Hi!

Yes, we cannot specify something that routers unaware of this specification
should or shouldn=E2=80=99t do.

I believe that Elwyn=E2=80=99s point is this: *if a router supports this
specification* then when would it not advertise the ELC?  IOW, the
specification only obviously applies to implementations that support it =E2=
=80=94
in that case I would think that if a router supports ELs on all of its
interfaces then it would always advertise the ELC, right?


Thanks!

Alvaro.

On May 11, 2020 at 3:18:34 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com) wrote:

Note that the optionality of ERLD-MSD advertisements appears on
reflection to be a more serious issue than just an editorial nit.

So what would you suggest? There are existing implementations that support
multipath forwarding entropy using MPLS entropy labels but do not signal
that capability in OSPF. We can't have a document that retroactively
mandates that they signal it. This wouldn't be backward compatible. How can
you possibly see this as a serious issue?

--000000000000cb044b05a5a0f296
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">Hi!</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Ari=
al;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font=
-size:13px">Yes, we cannot specify something that routers unaware of this s=
pecification should or shouldn=E2=80=99t do.</div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvet=
ica,Arial;font-size:13px">I believe that Elwyn=E2=80=99s point is this: *if=
 a router supports this specification* then when would it not advertise the=
 ELC?=C2=A0 IOW, the specification only obviously applies to implementation=
s that support it =E2=80=94 in that case I would think that if a router sup=
ports ELs on all of its interfaces then it would always advertise the ELC, =
right?</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br><=
/div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Thanks!</div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Alvaro.</div> <br><p class=3D"=
airmail_on">On May 11, 2020 at 3:18:34 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) (<a href=3D"m=
ailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"ci=
te" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fami=
ly:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font=
-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:st=
art;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px=
;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">Not=
e that the optionality of ERLD-MSD advertisements appears on<span class=3D"=
Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);fo=
nt-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:norm=
al;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-a=
lign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spac=
ing:0px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#3=
9;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font=
-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-=
transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255=
,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">reflection to be a more seri=
ous issue than just an editorial nit.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
=C2=A0</span></span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetic=
a Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:=
0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14=
px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spa=
cing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-spac=
e:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39=
;helvetica Neue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-varian=
t-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;tex=
t-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">So what wo=
uld you suggest? There are existing implementations that support multipath =
forwarding entropy using MPLS entropy labels but do not signal that capabil=
ity in OSPF. We can&#39;t have a document that retroactively mandates that =
they signal it. This wouldn&#39;t be backward compatible. How can you possi=
bly see this as a serious issue?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=
=A0</span></span><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;helvetica N=
eue&#39;,helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"></div></span></bl=
ockquote> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div></body></html>

--000000000000cb044b05a5a0f296--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
Thread-Index: AQHWJ8k7oO1z/U9/ckeQP7PcRQnIMqioAQ6AgAAf7hA=
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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--_000_D8D0350E81E24DEAA10F038A32894FDCciscocom_--


From nobody Thu May 14 18:25:54 2020
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From: Warren Kumari via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com, acee@cisco.com
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Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 18:25:50 -0700
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Subject: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection

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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Nit: “ When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a  
prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,   it
SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.“

S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.

S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ — some protocols will not have
/ carry the ELC.

Apologies if I missed it, but I didn’t see discussion on *exporting* ELC into
other protocols...




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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse@ietf.org>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] AD Review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-10
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Hi Alvaro,

please see inline (##PP)

On 14/05/2020 19:26, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> On May 5, 2020 at 6:08:27 AM, Peter Psenak wrote:
> 
> 
> Peter:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 
> ...
>> I tried to address all of them, some have been resolved during ISIS
>> draft review, in which case I took the same resolution for this draf.
>>
>> Please see inline, look for ##PP
> 
> 
> There's only one outstanding comment that I don't think was answered
> -- or at least I missed the meaning of the answer.  Please see below.
> 
> 
> I am also including some comments based on -11.  Except for the
> Normative language in §12.1, all the comments are basically
> nits/suggestions.
> 
> 
> I am starting the IETF Last Call for this document and
> draft-ietf-isis-te-app.  We can work on these remaining comments while
> we do that.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
>> 434 6. Local Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLV
>>
>> [major] The Local/Remote Interface IPv6 Address Sub-TLVs (rfc5329) can
>> include multiple addresses for a link. It seems to me that it could
>> be possible for different applications to use different addresses. If
>> that is the case, then it seems that these sub-TLVs should not be
>> application independent. Why are they not considered to be
>> application specific?
>>
>> [minor] Why are IPv4 addresses not considered?
>>
>> ##PP
>> IPv4 local address is part of the basic spec.
>> IPv6 remote address has been added in rfc8379.
> 
> For IPv4: what basic spec?
> 
> For IPv6: rfc8379 doesn’t seem to relate to the questions — am I
> missing something?

##PP
interface's IP address is part of the Router-LSA's link data - RFC2328, 
section A.4.2.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Line numbers from idnits]
> 
> draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-11
> 
> ...
> 168	4.1.  OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA and OSPFv3 E-Router-LSA
> ...
> 184	   3.  There is clear distinction between link attributes used by RSVP-
> 185	       TE and link attributes used by other OSPFv2 or OSPFv3
> 186	       applications.
> 
> [nit] s/is clear distinction/is a clear distinction

##PP
fixed
> 
> 
> ...
> 203	   TE link attributes used for RSVP-TE/GMPLS continue use OSPFv2 TE
> 204	   Opaque LSA [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329].
> 
> [nit] s/continue use/continue to use

##PP
fixed
> 
> 
> ...
> 213	5.  Advertisement of Application Specific Values
> ...
> 252	      SABM Length: Standard Application Identifier Bit-Mask Length in
> 253	      octets.  The legal values are 0, 4 or 8.  If the Standard
> 254	      Application Bit-Mask is not present, the Standard Application Bit-
> 255	      Mask Length MUST be set to 0.
> 
> 257	      UDABM Length: User Defined Application Identifier Bit-Mask Length
> 258	      in octets.  The legal values are 0, 4 or 8.  If the User Defined
> 259	      Application Bit-Mask is not present, the User Defined Application
> 260	      Bit-Mask Length MUST be set to 0.
> 
> [minor] "The legal values are 0, 4 or 8."  Should the statement be
> Normative ("MUST be...")?  I know there is a sentence below about
> ignoring the sub-TLV if a different value is received -- IOW, just a
> suggestion.

##PP
Changed to MUST be

> 
> 
> ...
> 319	      - Unidirectional Link Dela [RFC7471]
> 
> 321	      - Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay [RFC7471]
> 322	      - Unidirectional Delay Variation [RFC7471]
> 
> [nit] There seems to be a line missing...

##PP
sorry, what line is missing? There is a page break there.


> 
> 
> ...
> 532	12.1.  Use of Legacy RSVP-TE LSA Advertisements
> 
> 534	   Bit Identifiers for Standard Applications are defined in Section 5.
> 535	   All of the identifiers defined in this document are associated with
> 536	   applications which were already deployed in some networks prior to
> 537	   the writing of this document.  Therefore, such applications have been
> 538	   deployed using the RSVP-TE LSA advertisements.  The Standard
> 539	   Applications defined in this document MAY continue to use RSVP-TE LSA
> 540	   advertisements for a given link so long as at least one of the
> 541	   following conditions is true:
> 
> [major] s/MAY/may

##PP
ok, changed to may

> 
> 
> ...
> 651	12.3.4.  Use of Application Specific Advertisements for RSVP-TE
> 
> 653	   The extensions defined in this document support RSVP-TE as one of the
> 654	   supported applications.  It is however RECOMMENDED to advertise all
> 655	   link-attributes for RSVP-TE in the existing OSPFv2 TE Opaque LSA
> 656	   [RFC3630] and OSPFv3 Intra-Area-TE-LSA [RFC5329] to maintain backward
> 657	   compatibility.  RSVP-TE can eventually utilize the application
> 658	   specific advertisements for newly defined link attributes, which are
> 659	   defined as application specific.
> 
> [minor] "It is however RECOMMENDED to advertise all link-attributes
> for RSVP-TE in the existing..."  The application specific
> advertisements can be used and result in duplicate information.  The
> ISIS draft includes some sample steps to eliminate redundancy and get
> rid of the legacy advertisements -- can we add something similar here?

##PP
not really. We do NOT want to do what ISIS does in OSPF. ISIS has a 
problem with the amount of data they can advertise in the TLV. OSPF does 
not have that issue and as such we are NOT trying to get rid of the old 
advertisements for RSVP TE to avoid duplication.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> 


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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr@ietf.org
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPFv3 Implementations of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc
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Hi,

I'm going to update the draft to use bit 0x40 in "OSPFv3 Prefix Options 
(8 bits) registry" for E-Flag (ELC Flag).

thanks,
Peter

On 07/05/2020 15:10, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> Dear lsr WG:
> 
> If you’ve been following the progress of this document, you will have 
> noticed that it is already in IESG Evaluation.
> 
> IANA discovered a typo in the draft; the current text says "Bit 0x04 in 
> the "OSPFv3 Prefix Options (8 bits) registry has been assigned to the 
> E-Flag (ELC Flag)”.   However, the value assigned by IANA is 0x40.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have an OSPFv3 implementation of this document?  If so, 
> which value is used, 0x04 or 0x40?  Are there deployments?
> 
> 
> The Shepherd report doesn’t mention any implementations, and with the 
> help of the authors it has already been confirmed that cisco, Nokia and 
> Huawei don’t have an OSPFv3 implementation.
> 
> 
> Please respond by COB on May 14.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.


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To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Warren,

On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:
> Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Nit: “ When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
> prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,   it
> SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.“
> 
> S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.

fixed.

> 
> S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ — some protocols will not have
> / carry the ELC.

fixed.

> 
> Apologies if I missed it, but I didn’t see discussion on *exporting* ELC into
> other protocols...

what do you mean by "exporting"?

thanks,
Peter

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Fri May 15 10:25:50 2020
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In-Reply-To: <c463544f-0397-bc06-a65a-e6c42a1cadcd@cisco.com>
From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 13:25:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHw9_iL2v74h2fgDGxRu4UoZRPUMnGHvyG7kpE37rR9vvp9jqw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/7HdaPtqpV-E5gZOAsUqOsewUves>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Warren,
>
> On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:
> > Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> >
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> >
> >
> > Please refer to
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> >
> >
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR)
> redistributes a
> > prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,
>  it
> > SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C
> >
> > S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.
>
> fixed.
>

thanks!

>
> >
> > S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protocol=
s will
> not have
> > / carry the ELC.
>
> fixed.
>

thanks!

>
> >
> > Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expor=
ting* ELC
> into
> > other protocols...
>
> what do you mean by "exporting"?
>

Sorry -- the above discusses : "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary
Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix ... FROM some other protocol,  "
(imports), but presumably you would also like to be able to do "When an
OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix
**INTO** some other protocol,  ..." (exports). Yes, the "other protocol"
document should describe this in detail, but I think that it is worth
mentioning the topic here -- we may be helpful for implementers to keep in
mind that this may occur, and so the data should be reachable
(likely through the RIB).

W


>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

--0000000000005683cd05a5b31af0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Pete=
r Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Warre=
n,<br>
<br>
On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:<br>
&gt; Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<=
br>
&gt; email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi=
s<br>
&gt; introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss=
-criteria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/i=
esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
&gt; for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br=
>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; COMMENT:<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) r=
edistributes a<br>
&gt; prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it<br>
&gt; SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.<br>
<br>
fixed.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">thanks!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protoco=
ls will not have<br>
&gt; / carry the ELC.<br>
<br>
fixed.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">thanks!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expo=
rting* ELC into<br>
&gt; other protocols...<br>
<br>
what do you mean by &quot;exporting&quot;?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">S=
orry -- the above discusses : &quot;<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvet=
ica,sans-serif">When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redis=
tributes a=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-seri=
f">prefix ... FROM some other protocol,=C2=A0 &quot; (imports), but presuma=
bly you would also like to be able to do &quot;</span><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary R=
outer (ASBR) redistributes a</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helveti=
ca,sans-serif">=C2=A0prefix **INTO** some other protocol,=C2=A0 ...&quot; (=
exports). Yes, the &quot;other protocol&quot; document should describe this=
 in detail, but I think that it is worth mentioning the topic here -- we ma=
y be helpful for implementers to keep in mind that this may occur, and so t=
he data should be reachable (likely=C2=A0through the RIB).</span></div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">W</span></div><div>=C2=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature">I don&#39;t think the execution is relevant when=
 it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br>This is like putting ra=
bid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen tho=
se particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<=
/div></div>

--0000000000005683cd05a5b31af0--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/yW01Hg8rrucldIpqfS3ShRHRTtk>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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References: <158950595036.5639.14249690264747935521@ietfa.amsl.com> <c463544f-0397-bc06-a65a-e6c42a1cadcd@cisco.com> <CAHw9_iL2v74h2fgDGxRu4UoZRPUMnGHvyG7kpE37rR9vvp9jqw@mail.gmail.com> <AE27DFF2-B2F1-460F-8A30-EC7D233A14DD@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <AE27DFF2-B2F1-460F-8A30-EC7D233A14DD@cisco.com>
From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 17:08:18 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHw9_i+=p-8JTu_mcYTVZ636+BquMOmbFR4z6jqG_2vSYgyZXQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>,  "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/PrbF_xz5NIQiOaXZaSH5cBIKRco>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:34 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Warren,
>
>
>
> *From: *Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
> *Date: *Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM
> *To: *"Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <
> lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Acee Lindem <
> acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Warren Kumari's No Objection on
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
> *Resent-From: *<alias-bounces@ietf.org>
> *Resent-To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Yingzhen Qu <
> yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Warren,
>
> On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:
> > Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> >
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> >
> >
> > Please refer to
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> >
> >
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR)
> redistributes a
> > prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,
>  it
> > SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C
> >
> > S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.
>
> fixed.
>
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
> >
> > S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protocol=
s will
> not have
> > / carry the ELC.
>
> fixed.
>
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
> >
> > Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expor=
ting* ELC
> into
> > other protocols...
>
> what do you mean by "exporting"?
>
>
>
> Sorry -- the above discusses : "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary
> Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix ... FROM some other protocol,  "
> (imports), but presumably you would also like to be able to do "When an
> OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix
> **INTO** some other protocol,  ..." (exports). Yes, the "other protocol"
> document should describe this in detail, but I think that it is worth
> mentioning the topic here -- we may be helpful for implementers to keep i=
n
> mind that this may occur, and so the data should be reachable
> (likely through the RIB).
>
>
>
> Can you suggest some text? Do you realize that in the Routing Area, route
> redistribution (aka, route import/export) has always been considered an
> implementation matter and is not formally specified. It would hard to
> standardize this now (other than Routing Policy YANG model) due to
> differences between implementations.
>

Sure -- how about something like:
   When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
   prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,
   it SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.
  **In addition ASBRs should allow the
  ELC signaling for the prefix to be preserved when redistributing
to another instance of OSPF or to some other protocol**

(Addition in asterisks).
Note that this is just a suggestion / not a hill I care to die on -- as an
ops person, when I read "you should be able to preserve X when importing
into Y", I automatically start wondering how / if I can preserve X when
exporting from Y.

But, 'm also fine if y'all don't want to address this,
W



>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
> W
>
>
>
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
>


--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

--00000000000095463b05a5b63810
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:34 PM Acee=
 Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_5558453121978136652WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Warren, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Warren Kumari &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:warren@kumari.net" target=3D"_blank">warren@kumari.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Peter Psenak (ppsenak)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot=
;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;, Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Warren Kumari&#39;s No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpl=
s-elc-13: (with COMMENT)<br>
<b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yingz=
hen.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Chri=
stian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">chop=
ps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-Date: </b>Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at =
7:28 AM Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Warren,<br>
<br>
On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:<br>
&gt; Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<=
br>
&gt; email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi=
s<br>
&gt; introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss=
-criteria.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
&gt; for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br=
>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; COMMENT:<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) r=
edistributes a<br>
&gt; prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it<br>
&gt; SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.<br>
<br>
fixed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana,sans-serif">thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protoco=
ls will not have<br>
&gt; / carry the ELC.<br>
<br>
fixed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana,sans-serif">thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expo=
rting* ELC into<br>
&gt; other protocols...<br>
<br>
what do you mean by &quot;exporting&quot;?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Verdana,sans-serif">Sorry -- the above discusses : &quot;</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundar=
y Router (ASBR) redistributes a=C2=A0prefix ...
 FROM some other protocol,=C2=A0 &quot; (imports), but presumably you would=
 also like to be able to do &quot;When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary R=
outer (ASBR) redistributes a=C2=A0prefix **INTO** some other protocol,=C2=
=A0 ...&quot; (exports). Yes, the &quot;other protocol&quot; document shoul=
d
 describe this in detail, but I think that it is worth mentioning the topic=
 here -- we may be helpful for implementers to keep in mind that this may o=
ccur, and so the data should be reachable (likely=C2=A0through the RIB).<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can you suggest some text? Do you realize that in th=
e Routing Area, route redistribution (aka, route import/export) has always =
been considered an implementation matter and is not formally specified. It =
would hard to standardize this now
 (other than Routing Policy YANG model) due to differences between implemen=
tations.=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"=
>Sure -- how about something like: </div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0When an OSPF Autonomo=
us System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix fro=
m another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0it SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.<span class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></div><div>=
<span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=C2=
=A0 **In addition ASBRs should allow the</span></div><div><span class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">=C2=A0 ELC signaling =
for the prefix to be preserved when redistributing to=C2=A0another instance=
 of OSPF or to some other protocol**</span><br></div><div><span class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div=
><span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">(Ad=
dition in asterisks).</span></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Note that this is just a suggestion / n=
ot a hill I care to die on -- as an ops person, when I read &quot;you shoul=
d be able to preserve X when importing into Y&quot;, I automatically start =
wondering how / if I can preserve X when exporting from Y.=C2=A0</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">But, =
&#39;m also fine if y&#39;all don&#39;t want to address this,</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">W</div><br></=
div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_5558453121978136652WordSection1"><div=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Arial,sans-serif">W</span><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-=
left:0.5in">
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I don&#39;t think the ex=
ecution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br=
>
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr=
et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature">I don&#39;t think the execution is relevant when=
 it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br>This is like putting ra=
bid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen tho=
se particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<=
/div></div>

--00000000000095463b05a5b63810--


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWKt88nb8XfiX4B0qfq1WC166yAqippCoAgAAxL7A=
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 00:06:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/joAT91HYWByWVGUwEM8-NDvp2eE>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Support.

Best Regards,
Huaimo as co-author
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40=
cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:39 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C85d75c098f3e415eda0508d7f907c4fc%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637251684079273956&sdata=3D9JPE4sYiSzUvjpQKav7k3nSjv=
FYcjG6Y4ZWRIb1pNe8%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

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<head>
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252">
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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
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Support.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo as co-author</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt; on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ie=
tf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG =
adoption call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. =
Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on Jun=
e 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. </span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-=
lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%=
7C85d75c098f3e415eda0508d7f907c4fc%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7=
C0%7C637251684079273956&amp;sdata=3D9JPE4sYiSzUvjpQKav7k3nSjvFYcjG6Y4ZWRIb1=
pNe8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"gNTHUOL8EPbAIVFpnd/DDc2vQ705YEjAR=
i&#43;oY6RnLVtyHY82BosJVlvLK1uKRI&#43;hQPPFYXimAQjF9q2M37erBEyzy1c06oqDxSbk=
X9iIU2J8EiTjtBRnIaDGahhetI&#43;m&#43;qKeRyTydF2k0TNYhJRBwxxmRTFbAXti8cojQdW=
0l4I=3D">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<=
/a></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org" <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/MLPPyxGALeIIeFEq3xS8iLlKnow>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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Hi Acee,

    Yes. I am aware of IPRs that apply to this draft, which have been discl=
osed in compliance with IETF IPR rules.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:47 PM
To: draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reducti=
on@ietf.org>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-re=
duction-08 IPR Poll


Authors,



Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08=
.txt.



If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules

(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).



If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any

relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a

response has been received from each author and contributor.



If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or

contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.



Thanks,

Acee

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<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Acee,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes. I am&nbsp;aware of IPRs that apply to this draft, which =
have been&nbsp;disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &l=
t;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org &lt;draft-cc-lsr-floodi=
ng-reduction@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-floo=
ding-reduction-08 IPR Poll</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Authors, </span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Are you aware of any IPR that applies to&n=
bsp;draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">If so, has this IPR been disclosed in comp=
liance with IETF IPR rules&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for mo=
re details).</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">If you are listed as a document author or =
contributor please respond</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">to this email regardless of whether or not=
 you are aware of any</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">relevant IPR. *The response needs to be se=
nt to the LSR WG mailing</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">list.* The document will not advance to th=
e next stage until a</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">response has been received from each autho=
r and contributor.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">If you are on the LSR WG email list but ar=
e not listed as an author or</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">contributor, then please explicitly respon=
d only if you are aware of</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in=
 conformance with IETF rules.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Acee</span></p>
</div>
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</div>
</body>
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From nobody Fri May 15 18:41:50 2020
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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 21:41:18 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHw9_iJRsxungrW7jAMcZDpceQ8PDsK_YDqKZ-yUEbd666PrDA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>,  "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/ni1Ljhc6i7-p2oiwcYsWnqux9GQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:07 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Warren =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> The problem I have with your suggestion is that we do not know whether th=
e
> destination protocol for redistribution even supports the signaling.
>
>
>
> I am very supportive of Acee=E2=80=99s characterization of redistribution=
 as
> outside the scope of specification.
>
>
Okey dokey, I=E2=80=99m convinced...

Thanks, w


>
> I think we can say what happens intra-protocol =E2=80=93 but we should st=
ay away
> from inter-protocol statements.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * Warren Kumari
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 2:08 PM
> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org; Alvaro Retana <
> aretana.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;
> lsr@ietf.org; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari's No Objection on
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:34 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Warren,
>
>
>
> *From: *Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
> *Date: *Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM
> *To: *"Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <
> lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Acee Lindem <
> acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: Warren Kumari's No Objection on
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
> *Resent-From: *<alias-bounces@ietf.org>
> *Resent-To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Yingzhen Qu <
> yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Warren,
>
> On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:
> > Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> >
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> >
> >
> > Please refer to
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> >
> >
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR)
> redistributes a
> > prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,
>  it
> > SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C
> >
> > S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.
>
> fixed.
>
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
> >
> > S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protocol=
s will
> not have
> > / carry the ELC.
>
> fixed.
>
>
>
> thanks!
>
>
> >
> > Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expor=
ting* ELC
> into
> > other protocols...
>
> what do you mean by "exporting"?
>
>
>
> Sorry -- the above discusses : "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary
> Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix ... FROM some other protocol,  "
> (imports), but presumably you would also like to be able to do "When an
> OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a prefix
> **INTO** some other protocol,  ..." (exports). Yes, the "other protocol"
> document should describe this in detail, but I think that it is worth
> mentioning the topic here -- we may be helpful for implementers to keep i=
n
> mind that this may occur, and so the data should be reachable
> (likely through the RIB).
>
>
>
> Can you suggest some text? Do you realize that in the Routing Area, route
> redistribution (aka, route import/export) has always been considered an
> implementation matter and is not formally specified. It would hard to
> standardize this now (other than Routing Policy YANG model) due to
> differences between implementations.
>
>
>
> Sure -- how about something like:
>
>    When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
>    prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,
>    it SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.
>
>   **In addition ASBRs should allow the
>
>   ELC signaling for the prefix to be preserved when redistributing
> to another instance of OSPF or to some other protocol**
>
>
>
> (Addition in asterisks).
>
> Note that this is just a suggestion / not a hill I care to die on -- as a=
n
> ops person, when I read "you should be able to preserve X when importing
> into Y", I automatically start wondering how / if I can preserve X when
> exporting from Y.
>
>
>
> But, 'm also fine if y'all don't want to address this,
>
> W
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
> W
>
>
>
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
>
--=20
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in
the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
pants.
   ---maf

--0000000000006307db05a5ba07b3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:07 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_6338967231461229235WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Warren =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The problem I have with your suggestion is that we d=
o not know whether the destination protocol for redistribution even support=
s the signaling.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am very supportive of Acee=E2=80=99s characterizat=
ion of redistribution as outside the scope of specification.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Okey dokey, I=E2=80=99m convinced...</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks, w</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue"=
 vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_6338967231461229235WordSection1"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think we can say what happens intra-protocol =E2=
=80=93 but we should stay away from inter-protocol statements.</p></div></d=
iv><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_63389=
67231461229235WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>
Warren Kumari<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 2:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>; Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@i=
etf.org</a>; The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
lsr@ietf.org</a>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Warren Kumari&#39;s No Objection on draft-ietf-os=
pf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:34 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Warren,
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Warren Kumari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:warr=
en@kumari.net" target=3D"_blank">warren@kumari.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;Peter Psenak (ppsenak)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-=
ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@=
ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@c=
isco.com</a>&gt;, Alvaro Retana &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana.ietf@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">aretana.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Warren Kumari&#39;s No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpl=
s-elc-13: (with COMMENT)<br>
<b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yingz=
hen.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Chri=
stian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">chop=
ps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Resent-Date: </b>Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:25 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
Hi Warren,<br>
<br>
On 15/05/2020 03:25, Warren Kumari via Datatracker wrote:<br>
&gt; Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<=
br>
&gt; email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi=
s<br>
&gt; introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss=
-criteria.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
&gt; for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br=
>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; COMMENT:<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Nit: =E2=80=9C When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) r=
edistributes a<br>
&gt; prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other protocol,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it<br>
&gt; SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.=E2=80=9C<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/the /OSPF/OSPF/.<br>
<br>
fixed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">thanks!</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; S/for the prefix/for the prefix (if it exists)/ =E2=80=94 some protoco=
ls will not have<br>
&gt; / carry the ELC.<br>
<br>
fixed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">thanks!</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Apologies if I missed it, but I didn=E2=80=99t see discussion on *expo=
rting* ELC into<br>
&gt; other protocols...<br>
<br>
what do you mean by &quot;exporting&quot;?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">Sorry -- the abo=
ve discusses : &quot;</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sa=
ns-serif">When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistribut=
es a=C2=A0prefix ... FROM some other protocol,=C2=A0 &quot; (imports), but =
presumably
 you would also like to be able to do &quot;When an OSPF Autonomous System =
Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a=C2=A0prefix **INTO** some other prot=
ocol,=C2=A0 ...&quot; (exports). Yes, the &quot;other protocol&quot; docume=
nt should describe this in detail, but I think that it is worth
 mentioning the topic here -- we may be helpful for implementers to keep in=
 mind that this may occur, and so the data should be reachable (likely=C2=
=A0through the RIB).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Can you suggest some text? Do you realize that in th=
e Routing Area, route redistribution (aka, route import/export) has always =
been considered an implementation matter and is not
 formally specified. It would hard to standardize this now (other than Rout=
ing Policy YANG model) due to differences between implementations.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif">Sure -- how about something like:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary=
 Router (ASBR) redistributes a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prefix from another instance of the OSPF or from some other pr=
otocol,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0it SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix.<span clas=
s=3D"m_6338967231461229235gmaildefault"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ve=
rdana&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"m_6338967231461229235gmaildefault"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0 **In additi=
on ASBRs should allow the</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"m_6338967231461229235gmaildefault"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0 ELC signali=
ng for the prefix to be preserved when redistributing to=C2=A0another insta=
nce of OSPF or to some other protocol**</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"m_6338967231461229235gmaildefault"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif">(Addition in aster=
isks).</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif">Note that this is just a suggestion / not a hill I care to die on --=
 as an ops person, when I read &quot;you should be able to preserve X when =
importing into Y&quot;, I automatically start wondering
 how / if I can preserve X when exporting from Y.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif">But, &#39;m also fine if y&#39;all don&#39;t want to address this,<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-=
serif">W<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">W</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
<br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">
I don&#39;t think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad ide=
a in the first place.<br>
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr=
et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don&#39;t think the execution is relevant when it =
was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br>
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regr=
et at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0---maf<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">I don&#39;t think the execution is relev=
ant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place.<br>This is like pu=
tting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having ch=
osen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0---maf</div>

--0000000000006307db05a5ba07b3--


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Subject: [Lsr] Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[[ nits ]]

[ section 1 ]
* "(e.g., SR-MPLS" is missing a closing parenthesis

[ section 3 ]
* "...unless all of its interfaces...":" do management interfaces, or other
  interfaces over which no forwarding is taking place, count in this definition
  of "all"?  If not, does this text need to be tightened or is this just one
  of those things all implementers will naturally figure out? (I'm actually
  betting this is just something readers will intuit.)




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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs
        Authors         : Tony Li
                          Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Huaimo Chen
                          Tony Przygienda
                          Dave Cooper
                          Luay Jalil
                          Srinath Dontula
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05.txt
	Pages           : 47
	Date            : 2020-05-17

Abstract:
   Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can
   result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead
   associated with flooding.  This can be addressed by decreasing the
   flooding topology so that it is less dense.

   This document discusses the problem in some depth and an
   architectural solution.  Specific protocol changes for IS-IS, OSPFv2,
   and OSPFv3 are described in this document.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 05:06:51 -0400
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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--00000000000095fc1e05a5d45e4b
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Am reading through this thread late but want to chime in on the discussion.

Router Isis
fast-flood x

The concept of ISIS fast flooding has been around for decades and is
critical for ISIS LSDB synchronization to so all nodes have all prefixes to
avoid micro loops and within the network.

The concept of fast flood feature is basically to flood the number of LSPs
that need to be flooded before starting the local SPF.  So with fast flood
enabled all nodes in the domain wait till the last LSP is flooded before it
runs its local SPF.  By fast flooding it reduces the overall number of SPFs
executed and allows the LSDB to be synchronized by all nodes in the domain.

Let=E2=80=99s say a link went down or came up topology change.  The router =
should
at a minimum flood at least that LSP that triggered the SPF before running
its local SPF.  Fast flooding is recommended by all vendors as it improves
convergence times and limits duration of LSDB inconsistencies during which
time  micro loops form.

In case where a few routers don=E2=80=99t have fast flood enabled, those  f=
ew
router in slow mode may have to run multiple SPFs before completely being
synchronized.  I think that question where a mix of slow and fast exist
versus all slow or all fast you may have mixed unpredictable behaviors that
you really would have to test out in a lab or live network.

In my experience I have always had all nodes running fast flood mode as the
feature has been around for a long time and recommended for optimal
convergence.

There are many other parameters with ISIS that come into play to optimize
convergence below which may vary by vendor but can improve convergence and
minimize micro loops below:

One of them is setting all P2P routed links to circuit type point-to-point
to avoid DIS election.

Both ISIS and OSPF have the iSPF incremental SPF so only the changed part
of the tree is updated and not the entire tree to save on SPF processing.

With short spf interval and spf delay the local spf May start before the
lsp that triggered the spf is flooded.

Lsp pacing can be used to speed up end to end flooding.

Hello padding TLV 8 for MTU defection to help with convergence so max
number of LSPs can be sent during flooding.

Increase lsp lifetime to maximum to reduce control traffic so cpu can be
optimized to refresh lsp=E2=80=99s

Reduce the frequency of periodic lsp flooding of topology to reduce link
utilization by Isis

Ignore lsp errors instead of purging them

Carful balance of event processing and throttling of events to maximize
convergence times

Prefix prioritization on critical prefixes such as MPLS FEC binding.

LFA and RLFA for pre computed backup paths

BFD for ms failure detection

Overall Isis as far as scalability far exceeds ospf with stability with
domains with a very large number of nodes in the 100s and high number of
adjacencies per node.

As far as stability and convergence both ospf and Isis are equivalent from
my experience.

Kind regards

Gyan
Verizon

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:03 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Les,
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM
> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Christian Hopps
> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
>
>
> Bruno =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> I have specifically used an example where =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=
=80=9D is not
> applicable. So I did not want to use the term =E2=80=9Cmicroloop=E2=80=9D=
 but rather used
> =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so as not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoid=
ance=E2=80=9D is a potential
> solution for the sub-optimal behavior.
>
> [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean exactly by =E2=80=9Cmicroloop =
avoidance=E2=80=9D.
>
> On my side, I mean =E2=80=9CLoop avoidance using Segment Routing=E2=80=9D=
 [1] which _*is*_
> applicable. (Note that I=E2=80=99m not saying that all _*implementations*=
_ cover
> all cases.)
>
> [1]
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop-08
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope you can appreciate that point.
>
>
>
> It would be easy enough to include more nodes in the topology which only
> support slow flooding. The end result would be the same.
>
> [Bruno] The question is whether the activation of fast flooding on one
> (some) node(s)/IGP adjacency(es) may result in delaying the LSDB
> synchronization network wide. It=E2=80=99s not about the number of slow n=
odes.
>
>
>
> You seem to assume that we have a majority of fast nodes, and some
> remaining slow nodes. In which cases I agree that in some cases the
> overall/network wide behavior may be a slow LSDB sync. But not slower tha=
n
> with slow nodes only.
>
> I have kept the example simple in the hopes we could more easily agree
> that what I describe can happen when not all nodes support faster floodin=
g
> =E2=80=93 which is the only point I am trying to make.
>
> [Bruno] If your point is that while we have slow nodes in the network, in
> some cases the network wide behavior can be =E2=80=9Cslow=E2=80=9D, somew=
here between =E2=80=9Call
> nodes are fast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Call nodes are slow=E2=80=9D, then I =
agree with you.
>
>
>
> However what you said is: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network su=
pport
> faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency=
.=E2=80=9D
>
> In that sentence, I disagree with =E2=80=9Cprolongs=E2=80=9D which accord=
ing to 2
> dictionaries means =E2=80=9Clasting longer=E2=80=9D.
>
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/prolong
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prolong
>
>
>
> Because, at least to me, this reads as =E2=80=9CThe introduction of fast-=
flooding
> nodes in the network (may) increase the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=
=80=9D
>
>
>
> Whether the ratio of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small or about the same
> doesn=E2=80=99t eliminate the possibility that the same behavior could be=
 seen =E2=80=93
> though it might alter the location of the topology change which would be
> problematic.
>
>
>
> From an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that what you really car=
e about
> is whether packets get successfully forwarded or not.
>
> [Bruno] Yes, but let=E2=80=99s not combine multiple (complex) problems.
>
> Here I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB synchronization a=
cross the
> network. Plus this is exactly the point that you raised: =E2=80=9Cincreas=
e the
> period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assume forwarding behavi=
or will
> be optimal when not all nodes support fast flooding.
>
> [Bruno] Which is very different from your original point =E2=80=9Cwhen on=
ly some
> nodes in the network support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the=
 period
> of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 2:18 AM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
>
>
> Les,
>
>
>
> > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> >
>
> > Bruno -
>
> >
>
> > I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to understand each other. I
> am trying my best.
>
> +1 +1
>
>
>
> > Look at it this way:
>
> >
>
> > You are the customer. =F0=9F=98=8A
>
> > I am the vendor.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what (technical) point you are trying to make.
>
>
>
> Coming back to your statement : =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the netw=
ork
> support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB incon=
sistency
> .=E2=80=9D
>
> Your example is flawed on two points:
>
> - Your performance indicator is "micro loop duration", while we are
> talking about the duration of LSP flooding across the network. So the
> metric should be "LSP flooding time" (or "period of LSDB inconsistency")
>
> - Your example is about one node doing slower flooding, while we are
> interested in the case when one node support faster flooding. (It's quite
> clear that if one node is slower, the end to end flooding time may be
> longer. The point you are raising is when one node is doing faster floodi=
ng)
>
>
>
> Can you fix your example on those 2 points?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> > The failure scenario I describe below happens and you notice that all
> Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever fast flooding is
> enabled.
>
> > I think you are going to complain about this - to me. =F0=9F=98=8A
>
> >
>
> > And I am going to tell you that this is a consequence of enabling fast
> flooding in the presence of a node which does not support it. Your option=
s
> to reduce the period of looping will be:
>
> >
>
> > 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flooding
>
> > 2)Disable fast flooding
>
> > 3)Redesign your network
>
> >
>
>     > Les
>
> >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM
>
> > > To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>
> > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
> > >
>
> > > > From: Christian Hopps [mailto:chopps@chopps.org <chopps@chopps.org>=
]
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you hav=
e
> LSDB
>
> > > inconsistency.
>
> > >
>
> > > Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.
>
> > > I would even say: "The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP then
> you
>
> > > have LSDB inconsistency." But no big deal if there is disagreement on
> this
>
> > > detail.
>
> > >
>
> > > > That is going to last until the last node in the network has update=
d
> it's LSDB.
>
> > >
>
> > > Absolutely.
>
> > > So the faster we flood, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.
>
> > >
>
> > > Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood faster, there is a chance o=
f
>
> > > shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in all cases, I don't see how
> this could
>
> > > make the LSDB inconsistency longer.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain
>
> > > circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the
> operator flag the
>
> > > broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS
>
> > > should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood
> around the
>
> > > problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).
>
> > >
>
> > > +1
>
> > > On a side note, I would not call a router flooding slowly as "broken"=
.
> I find it
>
> > > understandable that in a given network there are different type of
> routers
>
> > > (core vs aggregation), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencies
> with 50 PEs
>
> > > vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware
>
> > > generations, different software, different vendors with different
>
> > > perspectives/markets.
>
> > >
>
> > > Thank you Chris.
>
> > >
>
> > > --Bruno
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Thanks,
>
> > > > Chris.
>
> > > > [as WG member]
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Les,
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
>
> > > > > To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
>
> > > > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Bruno =E2=80=93
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
>
> > > > > The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB
> update
>
> > > time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to
> FIB and IP
>
> > > packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
>
> > > > > I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points
> from the
>
> > > trigger event.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+ 2 seconds:
>
> > > > > -----------------
>
> > > > > B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all
> Northbound
>
> > > destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding p=
lane.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and
> finds
>
> > > that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no
> changes
>
> > > to the forwarding plane.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+7 seconds
>
> > > > > -----------------
>
> > > > > B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound
> destinations is
>
> > > being forwarded via D.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its
> forwarding
>
> > > plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > We have a loop.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T + 30 seconds
>
> > > > > --------------------
>
> > > > > D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes
> to its
>
> > > forwarding plane.
>
> > > > > Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+ 50 seconds
>
> > > > > -------------------
>
> > > > > D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
>
> > > > > It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound
> destinations
>
> > > via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T + 55 seconds
>
> > > > > --------------------
>
> > > > > D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more loopin=
g.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > That is all I am trying to illustrate.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloo=
p
>
> > > avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the exampl=
e
> for
>
> > > simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to incl=
ude
> multiple node
>
> > > failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on othe=
r
> nodes.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards t=
o
> microloops
>
> > > avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so includi=
ng
>
> > > multiple node failures.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consisten=
cy. (you
> are the
>
> > > one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB
> inconsistency
>
> > > which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude
>
> > > faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked me=
 to
> clarify.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster
> flooding
>
> > > could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the n=
etwork
>
> > > support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be
>
> > > "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the
> period of
>
> > > LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
> > > > > And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network=
 support
>
> > > faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsist=
ency.=E2=80=9D
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > --Bruno
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >    Les
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
>
> > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>
> > > > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Les,
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
>
> > > > > To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Bruno -
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this i=
n
> person.
>
> > > Ahhh...the good old days...
>
> > > > > [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 o=
r
> even a
>
> > > small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
>
> > > > > The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
>
> > > thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are
> not
>
> > > applicable.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Take the following simple topology:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >    |  | ... |            |
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >      | C |             | E |
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >        |                 | 1000
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >      | B |-------------| D |
>
> > > > >      +---+   1000      +---+
>
> > > > >        |                 |
>
> > > > >        |                 |
>
> > > > >         \               /
>
> > > > >          \            /
>
> > > > >           \         /
>
> > > > >            \      /
>
> > > > >              +---+
>
> > > > >              | A |
>
> > > > >              +---+
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a
> topology
>
> > > southbound of A (not shown).
>
> > > > > Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
>
> > > > > When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound
> destinations is via
>
> > > C.
>
> > > > > All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flood=
ing (Node
> D) is 20
>
> > > LSPs/seconds.
>
> > > > > If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
>
> > > > > All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus
> internode
>
> > > delay time).
>
> > > > > D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > [Bruno] Thanks for your example. Agreed so far.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > When A and B and all southbound nodes receive/process the LSP
>
> > > updates they will start sending traffic to Northbound destinations vi=
a
> D.
>
> > > > > But for the better part of 50 seconds, Node D has yet to receive
> all LSP
>
> > > updates and still believes that shortest path is via B-C. It will loo=
p
> traffic.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > [Bruno] May I remind you that we are discussing IS-IS flooding in
> order to
>
> > > sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already a big enough subject. It
> does not
>
> > > including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support =
faster
>
> > > flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be "better" when
> faster
>
> > > flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of LSDB
> inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Taking your own examples, in both cases (all nodes support fast
> flooding;
>
> > > all nodes but D support fast flooding) the period of LSDB
> inconsistency is 50
>
> > > seconds. Hence this example does not illustrate your statement.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my questions:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding t=
he
>
> > > behavior
>
> > > > > > of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding i=
s
>
> > > enabled
>
> > > > > > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > 1) Do you have data on this?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the
> flooding
>
> > > rate on
>
> > > > > > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across
> the
>
> > > > > > network?
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Had all nodes used slow flooding, it still would have taken 50
> seconds to
>
> > > converge, but there would be significantly less looping. There could
> be a
>
> > > good amount of blackholing, but this is preferable to looping.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] You are using an example where ordering FIB updates acros=
s
> the
>
> > > network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce _FIB_ inconsistency across
> the
>
> > > path/network. And you seem to conclude from this that this translates
> to
>
> > > LSDB update ordering. Those are two different things. In this thread,
> I=E2=80=99d
>
> > > suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and LSDB sync only. (*)
>
> > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976
>
> > > > > (*) We can discuss loop free IGP converge in a different thread i=
f
> you
>
> > > want. IMO, the use of segment routing/source routing is better than
> oFIB.
>
> > > But at some point, it still relies on fast flooding when multiple LSP=
s
> are
>
> > > involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_)
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > --Bruno
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > One can always come up with examples =E2=80=93 based on a specifi=
c topology
>
> > > and a specific failure - where things might be better/worse/unchanged
> in the
>
> > > face of inconsistent flooding speed support.
>
> > > > > But I hope this simple example illustrates the pitfalls.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >     Les
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > > > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 8:28 AM
>
> > > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > > > Subject: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Les,
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>=
]
> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg
>
> > > > > > (ginsberg)
>
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 4:39 PM
>
> > > > > > [...]
>
> > > > > > > when only some nodes in the network support faster flooding t=
he
>
> > > behavior
>
> > > > > > of the whole network may not be "better" when faster flooding i=
s
>
> > > enabled
>
> > > > > > because it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > 1) Do you have data on this?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > 2) If not, can you provide an example where increasing the
> flooding
>
> > > rate on
>
> > > > > > one adjacency prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency across
> the
>
> > > > > > network?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > 3) In the meantime, let's try the theoretical analysis on a
> simple
>
> > > scenario
>
> > > > > > where a single LSP needs to be flooded across the network.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > - Let's call Dij the time needed to flood the LSP from node i t=
o
> the
>
> > > adjacent
>
> > > > > > node j. Clearly Dij>0.
>
> > > > > > - Let's call k the node originating this LSP at t0=3D0s
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > >From t0, the LSDB is inconsistent across the network as all
> nodes but k
>
> > > are
>
> > > > > > missing the LSP and hence only know about the 'old' topology.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Let's call  SPT(k) the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric
> between
>
> > > > > > adjacent nodes i and j. Let's call SP(k,i) the shortest path
> from k to i; and
>
> > > > > > D(k,i) the shortest distance between k and i.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > It seems that the time needed:
>
> > > > > > - for node j to learn about the LSP, and get in sync with k, is
> D(k,j)
>
> > > > >
>
--=20

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

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<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Am reading through this thread late but wa=
nt to chime in on the discussion.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Router Isis=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">fast-flood x</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The concept of ISIS fast flooding h=
as been around for decades and is critical for ISIS LSDB synchronization to=
 so all nodes have all prefixes to avoid micro loops and within the network=
. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The concept of =
fast flood feature is basically to flood the number of LSPs that need to be=
 flooded before starting the local SPF.=C2=A0 So with fast flood enabled al=
l nodes in the domain wait till the last LSP is flooded before it runs its =
local SPF.=C2=A0 By fast flooding it reduces the overall number of SPFs exe=
cuted and allows the LSDB to be synchronized by all nodes in the domain.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Let=E2=80=99s say a link w=
ent down or came up topology change.=C2=A0 The router should at a minimum f=
lood at least that LSP that triggered the SPF before running its local SPF.=
=C2=A0 Fast flooding is recommended by all vendors as it improves convergen=
ce times and limits duration of LSDB inconsistencies during which time =C2=
=A0micro loops form.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In =
case where a few routers don=E2=80=99t have fast flood enabled, those =C2=
=A0few router in slow mode may have to run multiple SPFs before completely =
being synchronized.=C2=A0 I think that question where a mix of slow and fas=
t exist versus all slow or all fast you may have mixed unpredictable behavi=
ors that you really would have to test out in a lab or live network.</div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In my experience I have always=
 had all nodes running fast flood mode as the feature has been around for a=
 long time and recommended for optimal convergence.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">There are many other parameters with ISIS that =
come into play to optimize convergence below which may vary by vendor but c=
an improve convergence and minimize micro loops below:</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">One of them is setting all P2P routed links =
to circuit type point-to-point to avoid DIS election.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Both ISIS and OSPF have the iSPF incremental =
SPF so only the changed part of the tree is updated and not the entire tree=
 to save on SPF processing.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">With short spf interval and spf delay the local spf May start before th=
e lsp that triggered the spf is flooded.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">Lsp pacing can be used to speed up end to end flooding.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Hello padding TLV 8 for MT=
U defection to help with convergence so max number of LSPs can be sent duri=
ng flooding.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Increase ls=
p lifetime to maximum to reduce control traffic so cpu can be optimized to =
refresh lsp=E2=80=99s</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Re=
duce the frequency of periodic lsp flooding of topology to reduce link util=
ization by Isis=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ig=
nore lsp errors instead of purging them=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Carful balance of event processing and throttling of =
events to maximize convergence times=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Prefix prioritization on critical prefixes such as MPLS =
FEC binding.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">LFA and RLF=
A for pre computed backup paths=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">BFD for ms failure detection=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">Overall Isis as far as scalability far exceeds osp=
f with stability with domains with a very large number of nodes in the 100s=
 and high number of adjacencies per node. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">As far as stability and convergence both ospf and =
Isis are equivalent from my experience.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div dir=3D"auto">Verizon=C2=A0</div><div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 202=
0 at 12:03 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:soli=
d;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">







<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Les,<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0cm 0cm;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">
 Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">ginsberg@cisco.com</a=
>] <br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 7, 2020 =
4:55 PM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<b=
r>
<b style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.=
org</a>; Christian Hopps<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Flooding =
across a network<u style=3D"font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"=
font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Br=
uno =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I =
have specifically used an example where =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=80=
=9D is not applicable. So I did not want to use the term =E2=80=9Cmicroloop=
=E2=80=9D but rather used =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so as
 not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=80=9D is a potential s=
olution for the sub-optimal behavior.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
[Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean exactly by =E2=80=9C<span class=
=3D"m_-4910320200823046147SpellE">microloop</span>
 avoidance=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
On my side, I mean =E2=80=9CLoop avoidance using Segment Routing=E2=80=9D [=
1] which _<i>is</i>_
 applicable. (Note that I=E2=80=99m not saying that all _<i>implementations=
</i>_ cover all cases.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
[1]
<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bashandy-rt=
gwg-segment-routing-uloop-08" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html=
/draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop-08</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ho=
pe you can appreciate that point.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">It=
 would be easy enough to include more nodes in the topology which only supp=
ort slow flooding. The end result would be the same.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
[Bruno] The question is whether the activation of fast flooding on one (som=
e)
 node(s)/IGP adjacency(<span class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147SpellE">es</spa=
n>) may result in delaying the LSDB synchronization network wide. It=E2=80=
=99s not about the number of slow nodes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
You seem to assume that we have a majority of fast nodes, and some remainin=
g
 slow nodes. In which cases I agree that in some cases the overall/network =
wide behavior may be a slow LSDB sync. But not slower than with slow nodes =
only.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I =
have kept the example simple in the hopes we could more easily agree that w=
hat I describe can happen when not all nodes support faster flooding =E2=80=
=93 which is the
 only point I am trying to make.<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u=
><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
[Bruno] If your point is that while we have slow nodes in the network, in
 some cases the network wide behavior can be =E2=80=9Cslow=E2=80=9D, somewh=
ere between =E2=80=9Call nodes are fast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Call nodes are=
 slow=E2=80=9D, then I agree with you.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
However what you said is: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network supp=
ort faster
 flooding [=E2=80=A6]<span>=C2=A0 </span>it prolongs the period of LSDB inc=
onsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
In that sentence, I disagree with =E2=80=9Cprolongs=E2=80=9D which accordin=
g to 2 dictionaries
 means =E2=80=9Clasting longer=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<a href=3D"https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/prolong=
" target=3D"_blank">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglai=
s/prolong</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<a href=3D"https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prolong" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prolong</a><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
Because, at least to me, this reads as =E2=80=9CThe introduction of fast-fl=
ooding
 nodes in the network (may) increase the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=
=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Wh=
ether the ratio of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small or about the same does=
n=E2=80=99t eliminate the possibility that the same behavior could be seen =
=E2=80=93 though it might
 alter the location of the topology change which would be problematic.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Fr=
om an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that what you really care ab=
out is whether packets get successfully forwarded or not.<span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125)"></span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[B=
runo]
 Yes, but let=E2=80=99s not combine multiple (complex) problems.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
Here I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB synchronization acr=
oss the
 network. Plus this is exactly the point that you raised: =E2=80=9Cincrease=
 the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I =
am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assume forwarding behavior w=
ill be optimal when not all nodes support fast flooding.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
[Bruno] Which is very different from your original point =E2=80=9Cwhen only=
 some
 nodes in the network support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]<span>=C2=A0
</span>it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div=
 class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
--Bruno<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1.5pt;pad=
ding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt;border-left-color:blue">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0cm 0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@ora=
nge.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com<=
/a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 07, 2020 2:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Christian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">Les, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Bruno -<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to u=
nderstand each other. I am trying my best.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">+1 +1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Look at it this way:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; You are the customer.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif">=
=F0=9F=98=8A</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I am the vendor.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;m not sure what (technical) point you are tryi=
ng to make.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Coming back to your statement : =E2=80=9Cwhen
<span style=3D"background-color:aqua">only some nodes in the network suppor=
t faster flooding</span> [=E2=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs
<span style=3D"background-color:yellow">the period of LSDB inconsistency</s=
pan>.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your example is flawed on two points:<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Your performance indicator is &quot;micro loop dur=
ation&quot;, while we are talking about the duration of LSP flooding across=
 the network. So the metric should be
 &quot;LSP flooding time&quot; (or &quot;<span style=3D"background-color:ye=
llow">period of LSDB inconsistency</span>&quot;)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Your example is about one node doing slower floodi=
ng, while we are interested in
<span style=3D"background-color:aqua">the case when one node support faster=
 flooding</span>. (It&#39;s quite clear that if one node is slower, the end=
 to end flooding time may be longer. The point you are raising is when one =
node is doing faster flooding)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Can you fix your example on those 2 points?<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--Bruno<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; The failure scenario I describe below happens a=
nd you notice that all Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever=
 fast flooding is enabled.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I think you are going to complain about this - =
to me.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif">=
=F0=9F=98=8A</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; And I am going to tell you that this is a conse=
quence of enabling fast flooding in the presence of a node which does not s=
upport it. Your options to reduce
 the period of looping will be:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flood=
ing<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 2)Disable fast flooding<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 3)Redesign your network<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; To: Christian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a netwo=
rk<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Christian Hopps [<a href=3D"mai=
lto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:chopps@chopps.org</a>]<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno persistence has made me realize=
 something fundamental here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The minute the LSP originator changes=
 the LSP and floods it you have LSDB<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; inconsistency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; I would even say: &quot;The minute the LSP=
 originator changes the LSP then you<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; have LSDB inconsistency.&quot; But no big =
deal if there is disagreement on this<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; detail.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; That is going to last until the last =
node in the network has updated it&#39;s LSDB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Absolutely.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; So the faster we flood, the shorter the LS=
BD inconsistency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood =
faster, there is a chance of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in =
all cases, I don&#39;t see how this could<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; make the LSDB inconsistency longer.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsi=
stency can be bad in certain<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; circumstances e.g., if a critical node is =
slow and thus inconsistent.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I believe the right way to fix this i=
s a simple one, help the operator flag the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; broken router software/hardware for replac=
ement, but otherwise IS-IS<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; should just try to do the best job it can =
do to which is to flood around the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possi=
ble).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; +1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; On a side note, I would not call a router =
flooding slowly as &quot;broken&quot;. I find it<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; understandable that in a given network the=
re are different type of routers<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; (core vs aggregation), different roles (P =
having 50 IGP adjacencies with 50 PEs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2=
 P), different hardware<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; generations, different software, different=
 vendors with different<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; perspectives/markets.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thank you Chris.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; --Bruno<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Chris.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; [as WG member]<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM,
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Les,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<=
a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ginsberg@cisc=
o.com</a>]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:1=
4 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a n=
etwork<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I am somewhat at a loss to under=
stand your comments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The example is straightforward a=
nd does not need to consider FIB update<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; time nor the ordering of prefix updates on=
 different nodes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] The example is straightf=
orward but you are referring to FIB and IP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; packets forwarding as per those FIBs.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP=
 flooding and LSDB consistency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Consider the state of Node B and=
 Node D at various time points from the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; trigger event.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+ 2 seconds:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----------------<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; B has received all LSP Updates. =
It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; destinations previously reachable via C it=
 installs paths via D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 s=
econds to update the forwarding plane.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has received 40 of the 1000 LS=
P updates. It triggers an SPF and finds<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; that all Northbound destinations are reach=
able via B-C. It makes no changes<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; to the forwarding plane.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+7 seconds<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----------------<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; B has completed FIB updates. Tra=
ffic to all Northbound destinations is<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; being forwarded via D.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has now received 140 of the 10=
00 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; plane for Northbound destinations still po=
int to B.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We have a loop.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T + 30 seconds<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --------------------<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has now received 600 of the 10=
00 LSP updates. Still no changes to its<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; forwarding plane.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Traffic to Northbound destinatio=
ns is still looping.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+ 50 seconds<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -------------------<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has finally received all 1000 =
LSP updates..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It triggers (another) SPF and ca=
lculates paths to Northbound destinations<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; via E. It begins to update its forwarding =
plane.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=99s assume this will t=
ake 5 seconds..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T + 55 seconds<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --------------------<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has completed forwarding plane=
 updates =E2=80=93 no more looping.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; That is all I am trying to illus=
trate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you want to start arguing tha=
t node protecting LFAs + microloop<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly=C2=
=A0 took those out of the example for<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to=
 change the example to include multiple node<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; failures or a node failure plus some north=
bound link failures on other nodes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking =
about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; avoidance, some algorithms can handle any =
graph transition so including<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; multiple node failures.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But again, let=E2=80=99s stick t=
o LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; one speaking about microloops in the forwa=
rding plane).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The point here is to look at the=
 impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; which results when some nodes support floo=
ding an order of magnitude<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93=
 which is what you asked me to clarify.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] No. I asked you to clari=
fy why having a node with faster flooding<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsis=
tency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, with you own words: =E2=
=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; support faster flooding the behavior of th=
e whole network may not be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is=
 enabled because it prolongs the period of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwh=
en only some nodes in the network support<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolo=
ngs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --Bruno<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:=
21 AM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a n=
etwork<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Les,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<=
a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ginsberg@cisc=
o.com</a>]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:3=
5 AM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf..org</a><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Flooding across a n=
etwork<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno -<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Seems like it was not too long a=
go that we were discussing this in person.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Ahhh...the good old days...<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to th=
e point of concluding. Indeed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; First, let&#39;s agree that the =
interesting case does not involve 1 or even a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; small number of LSPs. For those cases floo=
ding speed does not matter.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The interesting cases involve a =
large number of LSPs (hundreds or<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloo=
p avoidance techniques are not<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; applicable.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Take the following simple topolo=
gy:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | ... =
|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
C |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 | E |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | 1000<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | =
B |-------------| D |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-=
--+=C2=A0=C2=A0 1000=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0/<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | A |<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; There is a topology northbound o=
f C and E (not shown) and a topology<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; southbound of A (not shown).<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cost on all links is 10 except B=
-D and D-E where cost is high.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; C is a node with 1000 neighbors.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; When all links are up, shortest =
path for all northbound destinations is via<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; C.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; All nodes in the network support=
 fast flooding except for Node D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding =
is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; LSPs/seconds.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If=C2=A0 Node C fails we have 10=
00 LSPs to flood.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; All nodes except for D can recei=
ve these in 2 seconds (plus internode<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; delay time).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] Thanks for your example.=
 Agreed so far.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; When A and B and all southbound =
nodes receive/process the LSP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; updates they will start sending traffic to=
 Northbound destinations via D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But for the better part of 50 se=
conds, Node D has yet to receive all LSP<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; updates and still believes that shortest p=
ath is via B-C. It will loop traffic.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] May I remind you that we=
 are discussing IS-IS flooding in order to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; sync LSDB (LSP database). That is already =
a big enough subject. It does not<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; including FIB (updates), nor IP forwarding=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Quoting you =E2=80=9Cwhen only s=
ome nodes in the network support faster<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; flooding the behavior of the whole network=
 may not be &quot;better&quot; when faster<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; flooding is enabled because it prolongs th=
e period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Taking your own examples, in bot=
h cases (all nodes support fast flooding;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; all nodes but D support fast flooding) the=
 period of LSDB inconsistency is 50<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; seconds. Hence this example does not illus=
trate your statement.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hence I=E2=80=99m restating my q=
uestions:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; when only some nodes i=
n the network support faster flooding the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; behavior<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; of the whole network may no=
t be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; enabled<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; because it prolongs the per=
iod of LSDB inconsistency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Do you have data on this=
?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 2) If not, can you provide =
an example where increasing the flooding<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; rate on<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; one adjacency prolongs the =
period of LSDB inconsistency across the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; network?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Had all nodes used slow flooding=
, it still would have taken 50 seconds to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; converge, but there would be significantly=
 less looping. There could be a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; good amount of blackholing, but this is pr=
eferable to looping.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] You are using an example=
 where ordering FIB updates across the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; network, e.g. as per [1], allows to reduce=
 _FIB_ inconsistency across the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; path/network. And you seem to conclude fro=
m this that this translates to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; LSDB update ordering. Those are two differ=
ent things. In this thread, I=E2=80=99d<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; suggest that we focus on IGP flooding and =
LSDB sync only. (*)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [1]
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976" target=3D"_blank">https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc6976</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (*) We can discuss loop free IGP=
 converge in a different thread if you<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; want. IMO, the use of segment routing/sour=
ce routing is better than oFIB.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; But at some point, it still relies on fast=
 flooding when multiple LSPs are<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; involved. (and I mean _fast_ not _ordered_=
)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --Bruno<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; One can always come up with exam=
ples =E2=80=93 based on a specific topology<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; and a specific failure - where things migh=
t be better/worse/unchanged in the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; face of inconsistent flooding speed suppor=
t.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But I hope this simple example i=
llustrates the pitfalls.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">
bruno.decraene@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020=
 8:28 AM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Flooding across a =
network<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Les,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Lsr [<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (ginsberg)<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, May 4, 2=
020 4:39 PM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [...]<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; when only some nodes i=
n the network support faster flooding the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; behavior<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; of the whole network may no=
t be &quot;better&quot; when faster flooding is<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; enabled<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; because it prolongs the per=
iod of LSDB inconsistency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Do you have data on this=
?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 2) If not, can you provide =
an example where increasing the flooding<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; rate on<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; one adjacency prolongs the =
period of LSDB inconsistency across the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; network?<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 3) In the meantime, let&#39=
;s try the theoretical analysis on a simple<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; scenario<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; where a single LSP needs to=
 be flooded across the network.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; - Let&#39;s call Dij the ti=
me needed to flood the LSP from node i to the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; adjacent<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; node j. Clearly Dij&gt;0.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; - Let&#39;s call k the node=
 originating this LSP at t0=3D0s<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;From t0, the LSDB is in=
consistent across the network as all nodes but k<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; are<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; missing the LSP and hence o=
nly know about the &#39;old&#39; topology.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let&#39;s call=C2=A0 SPT(k)=
 the SPT rooted on k, using Dij as the metric between<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; adjacent nodes i and j. Let=
&#39;s call SP(k,i) the shortest path from k to i; and<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D(k,i) the shortest distanc=
e between k and i.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It seems that the time need=
ed:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; - for node j to learn about=
 the LSP, and get in sync with k, is D(k,j)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_-4910320200823046147MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; </span></p></div></div></div></b=
lockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" dat=
a-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"georgia, serif"><font size=
=3D"1" color=3D"#000000">G</font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000">yan=C2=
=A0 Mishra</font></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Network Engineering &amp; Technology=
=C2=A0</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"georgia, serif">Verizon=C2=A0</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><fon=
t size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Silver Spring, MD 20=
904</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif">Phone: 301 502-1347</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Email: <a href=3D=
"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.=
com</a></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div><br></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000095fc1e05a5d45e4b--


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Dear LSR WG,

Any comments, suggestions or feedback is welcome.

--
Uma C.


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, May 17, 2020 at 9:16 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt
To: Uma Chunduri <umac.ietf@gmail.com>, Jeff Tantsura <
jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>



A new version of I-D, draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt
has been successfully submitted by Uma Chunduri and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons
Revision:       03
Title:          IS-IS Multi Topology Deployment Considerations
Document date:  2020-05-17
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          9
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons/
Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03

Abstract:
   This document analyzes IS-IS Multi Topology (MT) applicability in
   various IS-IS deployments.  This document explores the nuances around
   the terminology and usage of various IS-IS address families,
   topologies with different considerations, for choosing the right
   combination for a specific deployment scenario.

   This document also discusses various ways one can deploy IPv6 only
   IS-IS topology.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear LSR WG,<div><br></div><div>Any comments, suggestions =
or feedback is welcome.</div><div><br></div><div>--</div><div>Uma C.</div><=
div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<=
/span><br>Date: Sun, May 17, 2020 at 9:16 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notifi=
cation for draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt<br>To: Uma Chu=
nduri &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:umac.ietf@gmail.com">umac.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ie=
tf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Shraddha Hegde &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shraddha@juniper=
.net">shraddha@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Uma Chunduri and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-de=
ployment-cons<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A003<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IS-IS Multi Topology Deployment Co=
nsiderations<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-05-17<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draf=
t-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons/" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-m=
t-deployment-cons/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-=
cons-03</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chunduri-lsr-is=
is-mt-deployment-cons</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chunduri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chundu=
ri-lsr-isis-mt-deployment-cons-03</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document analyzes IS-IS Multi Topology (MT) applicability=
 in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0various IS-IS deployments.=C2=A0 This document explores the nu=
ances around<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the terminology and usage of various IS-IS address families,<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0topologies with different considerations, for choosing the rig=
ht<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0combination for a specific deployment scenario.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document also discusses various ways one can deploy IPv6 =
only<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IS-IS topology.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>

--0000000000001358ec05a5e47428--


From nobody Mon May 18 00:32:54 2020
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org>
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Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 15:32:47 +0800
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Hi, Acee:

=20

I am not aware of any IPR that applies to =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 =
3:47
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll

=20

Authors,=20

=20

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.

=20

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20

(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

=20

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any

relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a

response has been received from each author and contributor.

=20

If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or

contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>I am not aware of any IPR that =
applies to =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>China =
Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2020</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>5</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>16</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 3:47<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<=
span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> =
lsr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> [Lsr] Flooding Topology =
Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR =
Poll<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Authors, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Are you =
aware of any IPR that applies =
to&nbsp;draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>If so, =
has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR =
rules&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more =
details).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>If you =
are listed as a document author or contributor please =
respond<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>to this email regardless of whether or not =
you are aware of any<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>relevant IPR. *The response =
needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>list.* =
The document will not advance to the next stage until =
a<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>response has been received from each author =
and contributor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>If you =
are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author =
or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>contributor, then please explicitly respond =
only if you are aware of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>any IPR that has not yet been =
disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRmxvb2RpbmcgVG9wb2xvZ3kgQ29tcHV0YXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on_Algorithm_-_draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08_Working_Group?= =?utf-8?q?_Adoption_Call?=
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Yes, support as co-author.

The algorithm is needed for the flooding reduction deployment and should =
be standardized especially in distributed mode.

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Acee Lindem (acee)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 =
3:40
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lsr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - =
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

=20

This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =
=E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please =
issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June =
5th, 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience.=20

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/

=20

Thanks,
Acee


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Yes, support as =
co-author.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>The algorithm is needed for the =
flooding reduction deployment and should be standardized especially in =
distributed mode.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'>China =
Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] </span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=
=A8 </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2020</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>5</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>16</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 3:40<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> =
lsr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> [Lsr] Flooding Topology =
Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group =
Adoption Call<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>This =
begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =
=E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please =
issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June =
5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a =
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:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></b=
ody></html>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] RE:  Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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From nobody Mon May 18 02:45:39 2020
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
To: Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Erik,

please see inline:


On 17/05/2020 06:36, Erik Kline via Datatracker wrote:
> Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> [[ nits ]]
> 
> [ section 1 ]
> * "(e.g., SR-MPLS" is missing a closing parenthesis

yes, this has been fixed as a response to previous comments.

> 
> [ section 3 ]
> * "...unless all of its interfaces...":" do management interfaces, or other
>    interfaces over which no forwarding is taking place, count in this definition
>    of "all"?  

no, only those over which forwarding happens should be considered.


> If not, does this text need to be tightened or is this just one
>    of those things all implementers will naturally figure out? (I'm actually
>    betting this is just something readers will intuit.)

I would think so. It's kind of obvious that one would not take into 
consideration interfaces like loopback or other types over which real 
forwarding does not happen. The original text used line-cards instead of 
interfaces, but that was changed to interfaces based on comments from 
Alvaro.

If you insist, I can add a text to exclude the "non forwarding" 
interfaces, but I can see more questions coming in as a result :)

thanks,
Peter

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From nobody Mon May 18 07:40:02 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : IS-IS TE Attributes per application
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Peter Psenak
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Wim Henderickx
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2020-05-18

Abstract:
   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
   original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
   Segment Routing Traffic Engineering, Loop Free Alternate) have been
   defined which also make use of the link attribute advertisements.  In
   cases where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
   attributes the current advertisements do not support application
   specific values for a given attribute nor do they support indication
   of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
   link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements
   which address both of these shortcomings.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-te-app/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Mon May 18 10:33:52 2020
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From: Xufeng Liu <xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 13:33:36 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEz6PPQ8VA4cZNd=udcfpRL-UQSuZ43UwZPAzGvCC_FhHDdAow@mail.gmail.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/EHxH3B4X1XbCVc-Zszn_L4h9MeE>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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--000000000000b1dae505a5ef9080
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I am not aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed.

Thanks,

- Xufeng

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:32 AM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
wrote:

> Hi, Acee:
>
>
>
> I am not aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards.
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org] *=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 *Acee
> Lindem (acee)
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=
=A5 3:47
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org
> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* lsr@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
>
>
>
> Authors,
>
>
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies
> to draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
>
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
>
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
>
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
>
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
>
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
>
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>

--000000000000b1dae505a5ef9080
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt">I am not aware of</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"> any IP=
R that has not yet been disclosed.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt">- Xufeng<br></span></p></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:32 AM=
 Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_bla=
nk">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, =
Acee:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)" lang=3D"EN-US">I am not aware of any IPR that applies to draft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction-08.txt.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Best Regards.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">Aijun Wang<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US">China Telecom</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><di=
v><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;bor=
der-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0cm 0c=
m"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=
=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></=
span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93" lang=
=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-b=
ounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] </span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93" lang=3D"EN-US">Acee Lin=
dem (acee)<br></span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span=
></span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93" l=
ang=3D"EN-US"> 2020</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:=E5=AE=
=8B=E4=BD=93">=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">5</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"=
EN-US">16</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 3:47<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=
=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a=
 href=3D"mailto:draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org</a><br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=
=81<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=
=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Po=
ll<u></u><u></u></span></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Authors, <u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t" lang=3D"EN-US">Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08.txt.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If =
so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" =
lang=3D"EN-US">(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If you are listed as a document autho=
r or contributor please respond<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">to this email regardless =
of whether or not you are aware of any<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">relevant IPR. *The=
 response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing<u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">list.* T=
he document will not advance to the next stage until a<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">re=
sponse has been received from each author and contributor.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not =
listed as an author or<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">contributor, then please explicitl=
y respond only if you are aware of<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">any IPR that has not y=
et been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11p=
t" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p></=
div></div></blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000b1dae505a5ef9080--


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From: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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From: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org" <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 19:42:27 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/SexNC2EqztM6ShsRNBWDk52qvPI>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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Sender: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 13:02:01 -0700
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Cc: "draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org" <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
References: <47A153D9-E547-4C4D-A828-EB4410A44048@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/MfQIXvv1eEKqePv9Lyvec2FxHUE>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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> On May 15, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF =
rules.
> =20


Hi,

Our IPR disclosure for dynamic flooding =
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4044/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4044/>) may also apply to this draft.

I am not a lawyer and I don=E2=80=99t play one on this mailing list, =
either.

Regards,
Tony


--Apple-Mail=_BDFAF883-2ECE-40BE-928B-832D041AB7B4
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 15, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">If you are =
on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">contributor, then please =
explicitly respond only if you are aware of<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D"">any IPR that has not yet been =
disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Hi,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Our IPR disclosure for dynamic flooding (<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4044/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4044/</a>) may also apply to =
this draft.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
am not a lawyer and I don=E2=80=99t play one on this mailing list, =
either.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Regards,</div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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In-Reply-To: <c142498d599848878eda62eae76ea3e9@nokia-sbell.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 21:52:02 -0400
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To: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>,  "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/0xQjxBtT1py2hkjqgnQH0oufEIk>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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--00000000000038befd05a5f687bd
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Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help reduced SRH
size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS, however can the
0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=99s an IGP extension used in any =
pure IP
network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.

Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or PPR(preferred
path routing).

Kind regards

Gyan

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <
weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote:

> Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing information;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> Wang Weibin
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8810=E6=97=A5 3:24
> *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
> *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
>
>
>
> Weibin,
>
>
>
> One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains, would b=
e
> quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has implemented node
> capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to be pruned.
>
> The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with global view
> computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS + PCEP
> scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes that meet a s=
et
> of constrains, in first case, change in topology/capabilities would cause
> path recalculation/reoptimization on the PCE while in the second - IGP
> would recompute the topology locally.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <
> weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> Ketan, thank you for clarification.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
> Wang Weibin
>
>
>
> *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 14:52
> *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>;
> lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
>
>
>
> Hi Wang,
>
>
>
> You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goal but rather a
> benefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS where the label stack=
 can be
> reduced.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB -
> CN/Shanghai)
> *Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
>
>
>
> Hi authors:
>
>
>
> After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know whether
> there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SRH size with
> enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because without
> flex-algo we have to have a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6
> SIDs, if we enable flex-algo under special topology and link constraint
> condition, in theory we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel
> without SRH, but it still meet TE requirement. So my question is whether
> the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Cheers !*
>
>
>
> *WANG Weibin*
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
--=20

Gyan  Mishra

Network Engineering & Technology

Verizon

Silver Spring, MD 20904

Phone: 301 502-1347

Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

--00000000000038befd05a5f687bd
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Flex algo is usually mentioned in the cont=
ext of SR-TE to help reduced SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV=
6 and SR-MPLS, however can the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=99=
s an IGP extension used in any pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR=
-MPLS or SRv6. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Al=
so can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or PPR(preferred path =
routing).</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=
=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div><=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-443176356570243603WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing inf=
ormation;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers!</p></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" lin=
k=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_-443176356570243603WordSect=
ion1"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wang Weibin<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jef=
ftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> 2020<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\00=
8f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=B9=B4</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\008f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=
=E6=9C=88</span>10<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\0=
08f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=A5</span> 3:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wa=
ng@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Weibin,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimization=
s constrains, would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has impl=
emented node capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to be prun=
ed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller wi=
th global view computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS=
 + PCEP scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes that me=
et a set of constrains, in first case,
 change in topology/capabilities would cause path recalculation/reoptimizat=
ion on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the topology local=
ly.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On May 9, 2020, at 01=
:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nok=
ia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=EF=BB=BF <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ketan, thank you for clarification.<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wang Weibin<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 2020<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\00=
8f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=E5=B9=B4</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\008f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=
=E6=9C=88</span>9<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;\005fae\00=
8f6f\0096c5\009ed1&quot;,sans-serif">=E6=97=A5</span> 14:52<br>
<b>To:</b> Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wa=
ng@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">Hi Wang,</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">You are correct. Though I would=
n=E2=80=99t call it a goal but rather a benefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same ap=
plies to SR-MPLS where the label stack can be reduced.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">Thanks,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">Ketan</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 May 2020 19:07<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi authors:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I wa=
nt to know whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the SR=
H size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6 deployment, because=
 without flex-algo we have to have
 a big SRH size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-algo=
 under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory we can eve=
n construct =C2=A0a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH, but it still mee=
t TE requirement. So my question is whether
 the flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Cheers !</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">=C2=A0</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">WANG Weibin</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"georgia, serif"><font si=
ze=3D"1" color=3D"#000000">G</font><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000">yan=
=C2=A0 Mishra</font></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Network Engineering &amp; Technology=
=C2=A0</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"georgia, serif">Verizon=C2=A0</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><fon=
t size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Silver Spring, MD 20=
904</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif">Phone: 301 502-1347</font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
font size=3D"1" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif">Email: <a href=3D=
"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.=
com</a></font></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div><div><br></div></div=
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References: <24209_1588692477_5EB185FD_24209_35_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3D455@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB46198A668B9F2532BCCC38FEC1A70@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <6287_1588771252_5EB2B9B4_6287_332_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3F698@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB46199CC33B10BC9D3D622D2AC1A40@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <10562_1588775602_5EB2CAB2_10562_251_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E3FB63@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <87CDE7F3-E08D-4C45-9AF1-9DAD635F8908@chopps.org> <9992_1588784982_5EB2EF56_9992_201_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E40256@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB4619015E4B356DFC225CD001C1A40@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <6544_1588843052_5EB3D22C_6544_99_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E415A8@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <MW3PR11MB46193B31C35D5CA02F58AF81C1A50@MW3PR11MB4619.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <26975_1588867353_5EB43119_26975_5_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E423B4@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <CABNhwV1Pr-bU1zU-icFcaBTdotroV=VPkfrU4xW+jJhUAoozHA@mail.gmail.com> <31044_1589805734_5EC282A6_31044_440_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48E6052C@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 02:18:50 -0400
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com
Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
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On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:42 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Hello Gyan,
>
>
>
> Nice to know that fast LSP flooding is important to you.
>
> You are right that there are existing code and knobs to improve IGP
> convergence in general, and in particular to the specific implementation
> you are referring to (I=E2=80=99d bet that its first letter start with C)=
.
>
> Focusing on efficient flooding, which is the subject of this thread,
> =E2=80=9Cfast-flood x=E2=80=9D is indeed a nice name. AFAIR, the feature =
has been
> introduced approximately 15 years ago and was indeed an improvement. Many
> more have been introduced as part of the fast IGP convergence project tha=
t
> I=E2=80=99d been running in this company, resulting in very significant a=
nd much
> needed improvement on that implementation.
>
> Despite the name =E2=80=9Cfast flood=E2=80=9D, I don=E2=80=99t think that=
 anyone is claiming that
> it=E2=80=99s solving the broad issue of efficient LSP flooding.
>
> LSP-pacing may also be configured in order to influence the delay between
> two consecutively sent LSP.
>
>
>
> One question, which you have likely faced when enabling these knobs, is
> the right values to configure, depending on the receiver (=E2=80=99s capa=
bility)
>
If you have multiple implementation on the sender side =E2=80=93with differ=
ent ways
> to implement =E2=80=98fast flooding=E2=80=99- and different platforms (=
=E2=80=98s capability) on
> the receiver side, combined with various usages (e.g. from 2 to 50 IGP
> adjacencies, with or without BGP/RSVP-TE/multicast=E2=80=A6.) the matrix =
is quickly
> getting significant. Your vendor of the receiver implementation may help
> you; or not (significantly).
>
   Gyan> I completely understand the issue and that makes sense that with
the variables thrown out there with a mixed vendor environment with a
variety of platforms and sender flooding capability, and the receiver
receiving the flooded LSP capability to be processed during its local SPF
and overrunning the receivers.  So this is a real world worst case scenario
which can happen with flow control and how to deal with the resulting slow
convergence and sub optimal routing with micro loops. Got it.

Thank you for the explanation.

> With IS-IS, the problem is exacerbated because the protocol is typically
> vital to the network and all its usages and customers. So nobody wants to
> be held accountable if the parameters turned to be =E2=80=98non-optimal=
=E2=80=99 over the
> next decade. Especially as routing =E2=80=98incidents=E2=80=99 may alread=
y happen with
> default configuration.
>
>  Gyan>  Default change are painful for operators but unfortunately they d=
o
> happen and throw off any tuning or standard template deployed.
>
>
>
> Sending fast is =E2=80=9Ceasy=E2=80=9D, but what we need is an effective =
communication
> between the two entities involved: one sender and a receiver; sometimes
> referred to as goodput. RFC 2914 =E2=80=9CCongestion Control Principles=
=E2=80=9D [1] may
> be an introduction to this.
>
> e.g. you can probably speak English to me at 200-250 words per minutes bu=
t
> I can assure you that it would be more effective to speak to me at a lowe=
r
> rate, because of limitations on the receiver side.
>
> That=E2=80=99s similar for machines in general and IS-IS in particular, e=
specially
> since IS-IS is not that fast to recover from lost LSPs.
>
> The problem is not new and referred to as flow control. From [2] =E2=80=
=9CIn data
> communications <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_communications>, *flow
> control* is the process of managing the rate of data transmission between
> two nodes to prevent a fast sender from overwhelming a slow receiver. It
> provides a mechanism for the receiver to control the transmission speed, =
so
> that the receiving node is not overwhelmed with data from transmitting
> node.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s what we are working on.
>
>  Gyan>  Makes sense.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2914
>
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_control_(data)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra [mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:07 AM
> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> *Cc:* Christian Hopps; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
>
>
>
>
> Am reading through this thread late but want to chime in on the discussio=
n.
>
>
>
> Router Isis
>
> fast-flood x
>
>
>
> The concept of ISIS fast flooding has been around for decades and is
> critical for ISIS LSDB synchronization to so all nodes have all prefixes =
to
> avoid micro loops and within the network.
>
>
>
> The concept of fast flood feature is basically to flood the number of LSP=
s
> that need to be flooded before starting the local SPF.  So with fast floo=
d
> enabled all nodes in the domain wait till the last LSP is flooded before =
it
> runs its local SPF.  By fast flooding it reduces the overall number of SP=
Fs
> executed and allows the LSDB to be synchronized by all nodes in the domai=
n.
>
>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s say a link went down or came up topology change.  The route=
r should
> at a minimum flood at least that LSP that triggered the SPF before runnin=
g
> its local SPF.  Fast flooding is recommended by all vendors as it improve=
s
> convergence times and limits duration of LSDB inconsistencies during whic=
h
> time  micro loops form.
>
>
>
> In case where a few routers don=E2=80=99t have fast flood enabled, those =
 few
> router in slow mode may have to run multiple SPFs before completely being
> synchronized.  I think that question where a mix of slow and fast exist
> versus all slow or all fast you may have mixed unpredictable behaviors th=
at
> you really would have to test out in a lab or live network.
>
>
>
> In my experience I have always had all nodes running fast flood mode as
> the feature has been around for a long time and recommended for optimal
> convergence.
>
>
>
> There are many other parameters with ISIS that come into play to optimize
> convergence below which may vary by vendor but can improve convergence an=
d
> minimize micro loops below:
>
>
>
> One of them is setting all P2P routed links to circuit type point-to-poin=
t
> to avoid DIS election.
>
>
>
> Both ISIS and OSPF have the iSPF incremental SPF so only the changed part
> of the tree is updated and not the entire tree to save on SPF processing.
>
>
>
> With short spf interval and spf delay the local spf May start before the
> lsp that triggered the spf is flooded.
>
>
>
> Lsp pacing can be used to speed up end to end flooding.
>
>
>
> Hello padding TLV 8 for MTU defection to help with convergence so max
> number of LSPs can be sent during flooding.
>
>
>
> Increase lsp lifetime to maximum to reduce control traffic so cpu can be
> optimized to refresh lsp=E2=80=99s
>
>
>
> Reduce the frequency of periodic lsp flooding of topology to reduce link
> utilization by Isis
>
>
>
> Ignore lsp errors instead of purging them
>
>
>
> Carful balance of event processing and throttling of events to maximize
> convergence times
>
>
>
> Prefix prioritization on critical prefixes such as MPLS FEC binding.
>
>
>
> LFA and RLFA for pre computed backup paths
>
>
>
> BFD for ms failure detection
>
>
>
> Overall Isis as far as scalability far exceeds ospf with stability with
> domains with a very large number of nodes in the 100s and high number of
> adjacencies per node.
>
>
>
> As far as stability and convergence both ospf and Isis are equivalent fro=
m
> my experience.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
> Verizon
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 12:03 PM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Les,
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM
> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Christian Hopps
> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
>
>
> Bruno =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> I have specifically used an example where =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=
=80=9D is not
> applicable. So I did not want to use the term =E2=80=9Cmicroloop=E2=80=9D=
 but rather used
> =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so as not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoid=
ance=E2=80=9D is a potential
> solution for the sub-optimal behavior.
>
> [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean exactly by =E2=80=9Cmicroloop =
avoidance=E2=80=9D.
>
> On my side, I mean =E2=80=9CLoop avoidance using Segment Routing=E2=80=9D=
 [1] which _*is*_
> applicable. (Note that I=E2=80=99m not saying that all _*implementations*=
_ cover
> all cases.)
>
> [1]
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop-08
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope you can appreciate that point.
>
>
>
> It would be easy enough to include more nodes in the topology which only
> support slow flooding. The end result would be the same.
>
> [Bruno] The question is whether the activation of fast flooding on one
> (some) node(s)/IGP adjacency(es) may result in delaying the LSDB
> synchronization network wide. It=E2=80=99s not about the number of slow n=
odes.
>
>
>
> You seem to assume that we have a majority of fast nodes, and some
> remaining slow nodes. In which cases I agree that in some cases the
> overall/network wide behavior may be a slow LSDB sync. But not slower tha=
n
> with slow nodes only.
>
> I have kept the example simple in the hopes we could more easily agree
> that what I describe can happen when not all nodes support faster floodin=
g
> =E2=80=93 which is the only point I am trying to make.
>
> [Bruno] If your point is that while we have slow nodes in the network, in
> some cases the network wide behavior can be =E2=80=9Cslow=E2=80=9D, somew=
here between =E2=80=9Call
> nodes are fast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Call nodes are slow=E2=80=9D, then I =
agree with you.
>
>
>
> However what you said is: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network su=
pport
> faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency=
.=E2=80=9D
>
> In that sentence, I disagree with =E2=80=9Cprolongs=E2=80=9D which accord=
ing to 2
> dictionaries means =E2=80=9Clasting longer=E2=80=9D.
>
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/prolong
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prolong
>
>
>
> Because, at least to me, this reads as =E2=80=9CThe introduction of fast-=
flooding
> nodes in the network (may) increase the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=
=80=9D
>
>
>
> Whether the ratio of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small or about the same
> doesn=E2=80=99t eliminate the possibility that the same behavior could be=
 seen =E2=80=93
> though it might alter the location of the topology change which would be
> problematic.
>
>
>
> From an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that what you really car=
e about
> is whether packets get successfully forwarded or not.
>
> [Bruno] Yes, but let=E2=80=99s not combine multiple (complex) problems.
>
> Here I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB synchronization a=
cross the
> network. Plus this is exactly the point that you raised: =E2=80=9Cincreas=
e the
> period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assume forwarding behavi=
or will
> be optimal when not all nodes support fast flooding.
>
> [Bruno] Which is very different from your original point =E2=80=9Cwhen on=
ly some
> nodes in the network support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the=
 period of
> LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 07, 2020 2:18 AM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
>
>
> Les,
>
>
>
> > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> >
>
> > Bruno -
>
> >
>
> > I am sorry it has been so difficult for us to understand each other. I
> am trying my best.
>
> +1 +1
>
>
>
> > Look at it this way:
>
> >
>
> > You are the customer. =F0=9F=98=8A
>
> > I am the vendor.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what (technical) point you are trying to make.
>
>
>
> Coming back to your statement : =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the netw=
ork
> support faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB incon=
sistency
> .=E2=80=9D
>
> Your example is flawed on two points:
>
> - Your performance indicator is "micro loop duration", while we are
> talking about the duration of LSP flooding across the network. So the
> metric should be "LSP flooding time" (or "period of LSDB inconsistency")
>
> - Your example is about one node doing slower flooding, while we are
> interested in the case when one node support faster flooding. (It's quite
> clear that if one node is slower, the end to end flooding time may be
> longer. The point you are raising is when one node is doing faster floodi=
ng)
>
>
>
> Can you fix your example on those 2 points?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> > The failure scenario I describe below happens and you notice that all
> Northbound destinations loop for 35 seconds whenever fast flooding is
> enabled.
>
> > I think you are going to complain about this - to me. =F0=9F=98=8A
>
> >
>
> > And I am going to tell you that this is a consequence of enabling fast
> flooding in the presence of a node which does not support it. Your option=
s
> to reduce the period of looping will be:
>
> >
>
> > 1)Upgrade the slow node to support faster flooding
>
> > 2)Disable fast flooding
>
> > 3)Redesign your network
>
> >
>
>     > Les
>
> >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 10:10 AM
>
> > > To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>
> > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > Subject: RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network
>
> > >
>
> > > > From: Christian Hopps [mailto:chopps@chopps.org <chopps@chopps.org>=
]
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Bruno persistence has made me realize something fundamental here.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you hav=
e
> LSDB
>
> > > inconsistency.
>
> > >
>
> > > Exactly my point. Thank you Chris.
>
> > > I would even say: "The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP then
> you
>
> > > have LSDB inconsistency." But no big deal if there is disagreement on
> this
>
> > > detail.
>
> > >
>
> > > > That is going to last until the last node in the network has update=
d
> it's LSDB.
>
> > >
>
> > > Absolutely.
>
> > > So the faster we flood, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.
>
> > >
>
> > > Now IMO, even if a single/few nodes flood faster, there is a chance o=
f
>
> > > shortening the LSDB inconsistency. But in all cases, I don't see how
> this could
>
> > > make the LSDB inconsistency longer.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Les is pointing out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain
>
> > > circumstances e.g., if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I believe the right way to fix this is a simple one, help the
> operator flag the
>
> > > broken router software/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS
>
> > > should just try to do the best job it can do to which is to flood
> around the
>
> > > problem (i.e., flood as optimally as possible).
>
> > >
>
> > > +1
>
> > > On a side note, I would not call a router flooding slowly as "broken"=
.
> I find it
>
> > > understandable that in a given network there are different type of
> routers
>
> > > (core vs aggregation), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencies
> with 50 PEs
>
> > > vs PE having only 2 IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware
>
> > > generations, different software, different vendors with different
>
> > > perspectives/markets.
>
> > >
>
> > > Thank you Chris.
>
> > >
>
> > > --Bruno
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Thanks,
>
> > > > Chris.
>
> > > > [as WG member]
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > On May 6, 2020, at 10:33 AM, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Les,
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM
>
> > > > > To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN
>
> > > > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Bruno =E2=80=93
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I am somewhat at a loss to understand your comments.
>
> > > > > The example is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB
> update
>
> > > time nor the ordering of prefix updates on different nodes.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] The example is straightforward but you are referring to
> FIB and IP
>
> > > packets forwarding as per those FIBs.
>
> > > > > I=E2=80=99d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Consider the state of Node B and Node D at various time points
> from the
>
> > > trigger event.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+ 2 seconds:
>
> > > > > -----------------
>
> > > > > B has received all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all
> Northbound
>
> > > destinations previously reachable via C it installs paths via D.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding p=
lane.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > D has received 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and
> finds
>
> > > that all Northbound destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no
> changes
>
> > > to the forwarding plane.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+7 seconds
>
> > > > > -----------------
>
> > > > > B has completed FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound
> destinations is
>
> > > being forwarded via D.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > D has now received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its
> forwarding
>
> > > plane for Northbound destinations still point to B.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > We have a loop.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T + 30 seconds
>
> > > > > --------------------
>
> > > > > D has now received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes
> to its
>
> > > forwarding plane.
>
> > > > > Traffic to Northbound destinations is still looping.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T+ 50 seconds
>
> > > > > -------------------
>
> > > > > D has finally received all 1000 LSP updates..
>
> > > > > It triggers (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound
> destinations
>
> > > via E. It begins to update its forwarding plane.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > T + 55 seconds
>
> > > > > --------------------
>
> > > > > D has completed forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more loopin=
g.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > That is all I am trying to illustrate.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > If you want to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloo=
p
>
> > > avoidance could help (NOTE I explicitly  took those out of the exampl=
e
> for
>
> > > simplicity) =E2=80=93 it is easy enough to change the example to incl=
ude
> multiple node
>
> > > failures or a node failure plus some northbound link failures on othe=
r
> nodes.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards t=
o
> microloops
>
> > > avoidance, some algorithms can handle any graph transition so includi=
ng
>
> > > multiple node failures.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > But again, let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consisten=
cy. (you
> are the
>
> > > one speaking about microloops in the forwarding plane).
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The point here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB
> inconsistency
>
> > > which results when some nodes support flooding an order of magnitude
>
> > > faster flooding than other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked me=
 to
> clarify.
>
> > > > > [Bruno] No. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster
> flooding
>
> > > could prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Again, with you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the n=
etwork
>
> > > support faster flooding the behavior of the whole network may not be
>
> > > "better" when faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the
> period of
>
> > > LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D
>
> > > > > And with less words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network=
 support
>
> > > faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]  it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsist=
ency.=E2=80=9D
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > --Bruno
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >    Les
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM
>
> > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>
> > > > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Les,
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
> <ginsberg@cisco.com>]
>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM
>
> > > > > To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; lsr@ietf..org
>
> > > > > Subject: RE: Flooding across a network
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Bruno -
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Seems like it was not too long ago that we were discussing this i=
n
> person.
>
> > > Ahhh...the good old days...
>
> > > > > [Bruno] Indeed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > First, let's agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 o=
r
> even a
>
> > > small number of LSPs. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.
>
> > > > > The interesting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or
>
> > > thousands). And in such cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are
> not
>
> > > applicable.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Take the following simple topology:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >    |  | ... |            |
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >      | C |             | E |
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >        |                 | 1000
>
> > > > >      +---+             +---+
>
> > > > >      | B |-------------| D |
>
> > > > >      +---+   1000      +---+
>
> > > > >        |                 |
>
> > > > >        |                 |
>
> > > > >         \               /
>
> > > > >          \            /
>
> > > > >           \         /
>
> > > > >            \      /
>
> > > > >              +---+
>
> > > > >              | A |
>
> > > > >              +---+
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > There is a topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a
> topology
>
> > > southbound of A (not shown).
>
> > > > > Cost on all links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > C is a node with 1000 neighbors.
>
> > > > > When all links are up, shortest path for all northbound
> destinations is via
>
> > > C.
>
> > > > > All nodes in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.
>
> > > > > Let=E2=80=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flood=
ing (Node
> D) is 20
>
> > > LSPs/seconds.
>
> > > > > If  Node C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.
>
> > > > > All nodes except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus
> internode
>
> > > delay time).
>
> > > > > D can receive LSPs in 50 seconds.
>
> > > > >
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--00000000000069d16505a5fa41f0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:42 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno=
.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">







<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_6339842505386838829WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hello
<span class=3D"m_6339842505386838829SpellE">Gyan</span>,<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Nice to kn=
ow that fast LSP flooding is important to you.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">You are ri=
ght that there are existing code and knobs to improve IGP convergence
 in general, and in particular to the specific implementation you are refer=
ring to (I=E2=80=99d bet that its first letter start with C).<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Focusing o=
n efficient flooding, which is the subject of this thread, =E2=80=9Cfast-fl=
ood
 x=E2=80=9D is indeed a nice name. AFAIR, the feature has been introduced a=
pproximately 15 years ago and was indeed an improvement. Many more have bee=
n introduced as part of the fast IGP convergence project that I=E2=80=99d b=
een running in this company, resulting in very significant
 and much needed improvement on that implementation.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Despite th=
e name =E2=80=9Cfast flood=E2=80=9D, I don=E2=80=99t think that anyone is c=
laiming that it=E2=80=99s solving
 the broad issue of efficient LSP flooding.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">LSP-pacing=
 may also be configured in order to influence the delay between two consecu=
tively
 sent LSP.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">One questi=
on, which you have likely faced when enabling these knobs, is the right
 values to configure, depending on the receiver (=E2=80=99s capability)</sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D=
"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_6339842505386838829Word=
Section1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">If you hav=
e multiple implementation on the sender side =E2=80=93with different ways t=
o implement
 =E2=80=98fast flooding=E2=80=99- and different platforms (=E2=80=98s capab=
ility) on the receiver side, combined with various usages (e.g. from 2 to 5=
0 IGP adjacencies, with or without BGP/RSVP-TE/multicast=E2=80=A6.) the mat=
rix is quickly getting significant. Your vendor of the receiver
 implementation may help you; or not (significantly).</span></p></div></div=
></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; I completely understa=
nd the issue and that makes sense that with the variables thrown out there =
with a mixed vendor environment with a variety of platforms and sender floo=
ding capability, and the receiver receiving the flooded LSP capability to b=
e processed during its local SPF and overrunning the receivers.=C2=A0 So th=
is is a real world worst case scenario which can happen with flow control a=
nd how to deal with the resulting slow convergence and sub optimal routing =
with micro loops. Got it. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Thank you for the explanation.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_633984250=
5386838829WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:#1f497d"></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_633=
9842505386838829WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">With IS-IS=
, the problem is exacerbated because the protocol is typically vital to
 the network and all its usages and customers. So nobody wants to be held a=
ccountable if the parameters turned to be =E2=80=98non-optimal=E2=80=99 ove=
r the next decade. Especially as routing =E2=80=98incidents=E2=80=99 may al=
ready happen with default configuration.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; =C2=A0Default change are painful for operators but unfortunatel=
y they do happen and throw off any tuning or standard template deployed.<u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Sending fa=
st is =E2=80=9Ceasy=E2=80=9D, but what we need is an effective communicatio=
n between the
 two entities involved: one sender and a receiver; sometimes referred to as=
 <span class=3D"m_6339842505386838829SpellE">
goodput</span>. RFC 2914 =E2=80=9CCongestion Control Principles=E2=80=9D [1=
] may be an introduction to this.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">e.g. you c=
an probably speak English to me at 200-250 words per minutes but I can
 assure you that it would be more effective to speak to me at a lower rate,=
 because of limitations on the receiver side.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">That=E2=80=
=99s similar for machines in general and IS-IS in particular, especially si=
nce
 IS-IS is not that fast to recover from lost LSPs.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The proble=
m is not new and referred to as flow control. From [2] =E2=80=9C</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">In
</span><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_communications" title=
=3D"Data communications" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">data commun=
ications</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US">,
<b>flow control</b> is the process of managing the rate of data transmissio=
n between two nodes to prevent a fast sender from overwhelming a slow recei=
ver. It provides a mechanism for the receiver to control the transmission s=
peed, so that the receiving node
 is not overwhelmed with data from transmitting node.=E2=80=9D</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">That=E2=80=
=99s what we are working on.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; =C2=A0Makes sense. =C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Kind regar=
ds,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Bruno<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[1]
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2914" target=3D"_blank">https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc2914</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[2]
<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_control_(data)" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_control_(data)</a><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p></div></div><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div cl=
ass=3D"m_6339842505386838829WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<span class=3D"m_6339842505386838829SpellE">Gyan</span> Mishra [mailto:<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECR</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">AENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Christian Hopps; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg); <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding across a network<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Am reading through this=
 thread late but want to chime in on the discussion.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Router Isis=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">fast-flood x<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">The concept of ISIS fas=
t flooding has been around for decades and is critical for ISIS LSDB synchr=
onization to so all nodes have all prefixes to avoid micro loops and within=
 the network. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">The concept of fast flo=
od feature is basically to flood the number of LSPs that need to be flooded=
 before starting the local SPF.=C2=A0 So with fast flood enabled all nodes =
in the domain wait till the last LSP is flooded
 before it runs its local SPF.=C2=A0 By fast flooding it reduces the overal=
l number of SPFs executed and allows the LSDB to be synchronized by all nod=
es in the domain.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Let=E2=80=99s say a lin=
k went down or came up topology change.=C2=A0 The router should at a minimu=
m flood at least that LSP that triggered the SPF before running its local S=
PF.=C2=A0 Fast flooding is recommended by all vendors
 as it improves convergence times and limits duration of LSDB inconsistenci=
es during which time =C2=A0micro loops form.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">In case where a few rou=
ters don=E2=80=99t have fast flood enabled, those =C2=A0few router in slow =
mode may have to run multiple SPFs before completely being synchronized.=C2=
=A0 I think that question where a mix of slow and fast
 exist versus all slow or all fast you may have mixed unpredictable behavio=
rs that you really would have to test out in a lab or live network.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">In my experience I have=
 always had all nodes running fast flood mode as the feature has been aroun=
d for a long time and recommended for optimal convergence.<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">There are many other pa=
rameters with ISIS that come into play to optimize convergence below which =
may vary by vendor but can improve convergence and minimize micro loops bel=
ow:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">One of them is setting =
all P2P routed links to circuit type point-to-point to avoid DIS election.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Both ISIS and OSPF have=
 the iSPF incremental SPF so only the changed part of the tree is updated a=
nd not the entire tree to save on SPF processing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">With short spf interval=
 and spf delay the local spf May start before the lsp that triggered the sp=
f is flooded.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Lsp pacing can be used =
to speed up end to end flooding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Hello padding TLV 8 for=
 MTU defection to help with convergence so max number of LSPs can be sent d=
uring flooding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Increase lsp lifetime t=
o maximum to reduce control traffic so cpu can be optimized to refresh lsp=
=E2=80=99s<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Reduce the frequency of=
 periodic lsp flooding of topology to reduce link utilization by Isis=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Ignore lsp errors inste=
ad of purging them=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Carful balance of event=
 processing and throttling of events to maximize convergence times=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Prefix prioritization o=
n critical prefixes such as MPLS FEC binding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">LFA and RLFA for pre co=
mputed backup paths=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">BFD for ms failure dete=
ction=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Overall Isis as far as =
scalability far exceeds ospf with stability with domains with a very large =
number of nodes in the 100s and high number of adjacencies per node. =C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">As far as stability and=
 convergence both ospf and Isis are equivalent from my experience.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">Verizon=C2=A0<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at =
12:03 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style=3D"color:#1f497d">Les,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com=
</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Christian Hopps<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Bruno =E2=80=93</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I have specifically used an example where =E2=80=9Cmic=
roloop avoidance=E2=80=9D is not applicable. So I did not want to use the t=
erm =E2=80=9Cmicroloop=E2=80=9D but rather used =E2=80=9Cloop=E2=80=9D so a=
s not to suggest that =E2=80=9Cmicroloop avoidance=E2=80=9D is a potential
 solution for the sub-optimal behavior.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno] I=E2=80=99m not sure w=
hat you mean exactly by =E2=80=9C<span class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910=
320200823046147spelle">microloop</span> avoidance=E2=80=9D.</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">On my side, I mean =E2=80=9CLo=
op avoidance using Segment Routing=E2=80=9D [1] which _<i>is</i>_ applicabl=
e. (Note that I=E2=80=99m not saying that all _<i>implementations</i>_ cove=
r all cases.)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[1] =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop-08" target=3D=
"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-u=
loop-08</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Hope you can appreciate that point.</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">It would be easy enough to include more nodes in the t=
opology which only support slow flooding. The end result would be the same.=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno] The question is whethe=
r the activation of fast flooding on one (some) node(s)/IGP adjacency(<span=
 class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147spelle">es</span>) may =
result in delaying the LSDB synchronization
 network wide. It=E2=80=99s not about the number of slow nodes.</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">You seem to assume that we hav=
e a majority of fast nodes, and some remaining slow nodes. In which cases I=
 agree that in some cases the overall/network wide behavior may be a slow L=
SDB sync. But
 not slower than with slow nodes only.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I have kept the example simple in the hopes we could m=
ore easily agree that what I describe can happen when not all nodes support=
 faster flooding =E2=80=93 which is the only point I am trying to make.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno] If your point is that =
while we have slow nodes in the network, in some cases the network wide beh=
avior can be =E2=80=9Cslow=E2=80=9D, somewhere between =E2=80=9Call nodes a=
re fast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Call nodes are slow=E2=80=9D, then
 I agree with you.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">However what you said is: =E2=
=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support faster flooding [=E2=80=
=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">In that sentence, I disagree w=
ith =E2=80=9Cprolongs=E2=80=9D which according to 2 dictionaries means =E2=
=80=9Clasting longer=E2=80=9D.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><a href=3D"https://dictionary.=
cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/prolong" target=3D"_blank">https://di=
ctionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/prolong</a></span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><a href=3D"https://www.merriam=
-webster.com/dictionary/prolong" target=3D"_blank">https://www.merriam-webs=
ter.com/dictionary/prolong</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Because, at least to me, this =
reads as =E2=80=9CThe introduction of fast-flooding nodes in the network (m=
ay) increase the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Whether the ratio of Fast/Slow nodes is large or small=
 or about the same doesn=E2=80=99t eliminate the possibility that the same =
behavior could be seen =E2=80=93 though it might alter the location of the =
topology change which
 would be problematic.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">From an operator=E2=80=99s POV, I am pretty sure that =
what you really care about is whether packets get successfully forwarded or=
 not.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno] Yes, but let=E2=80=99s=
 not combine multiple (complex) problems.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Here I=E2=80=99d like we focus=
 on LSP flooding and LSDB synchronization across the network. Plus this is =
exactly the point that you raised: =E2=80=9Cincrease the period of LSDB inc=
onsistency.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I am demonstrating that it isn=E2=80=99t safe to assum=
e forwarding behavior will be optimal when not all nodes support fast flood=
ing.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno] Which is very differen=
t from your original point =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network sup=
port faster flooding [=E2=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs the period of LSDB incon=
sistency.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:35.4pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">--Bruno</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 07, 2020 2:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Christian Hopps &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Flooding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">Les, <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; From: Les Ginsberg (ginsb=
erg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ginsbe=
rg@cisco.com</a>]
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Bruno -</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I am sorry it has been so=
 difficult for us to understand each other. I am trying my best.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">+1 +1</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Look at it this way:</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; You are the customer.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">=F0=9F=98=8A</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I am the vendor.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;m not sure what (technic=
al) point you are trying to make.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Coming back to your statement =
: =E2=80=9Cwhen
<span style=3D"background:aqua">only some nodes in the network support fast=
er flooding</span> [=E2=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs
<span style=3D"background:yellow">the period of LSDB inconsistency</span>.=
=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your example is flawed on two =
points:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Your performance indicator i=
s &quot;micro loop duration&quot;, while we are talking about the duration =
of LSP flooding across the network. So
 the metric should be &quot;LSP flooding time&quot; (or &quot;<span style=
=3D"background:yellow">period of LSDB inconsistency</span>&quot;)</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- Your example is about one no=
de doing slower flooding, while we are interested in
<span style=3D"background:aqua">the case when one node support faster flood=
ing</span>. (It&#39;s quite clear that if one node is slower, the end to en=
d flooding time may be longer. The point you are raising is when one node i=
s doing faster flooding)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Can you fix your example on th=
ose 2 points?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--Bruno</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; The failure scenario I de=
scribe below happens and you notice that all Northbound destinations loop f=
or 35 seconds whenever fast flooding
 is enabled.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; I think you are going to =
complain about this - to me.
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">=F0=9F=98=8A</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; And I am going to tell yo=
u that this is a consequence of enabling fast flooding in the presence of a=
 node which does not support it.
 Your options to reduce the period of looping will be:</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 1)Upgrade the slow node t=
o support faster flooding</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 2)Disable fast flooding</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; 3)Redesign your network</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; Les<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; From:
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, May=
 06, 2020 10:10 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; To: Christian Hopps =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">chopps@chopps.or=
g</a>&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Cc: Les Ginsberg (gi=
nsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsber=
g@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [Lsr] F=
looding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Christian=
 Hopps [<a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:chopp=
s@chopps.org</a>]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno persisten=
ce has made me realize something fundamental here.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; The minute the =
LSP originator changes the LSP and floods it you have LSDB</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; inconsistency.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Exactly my point. Th=
ank you Chris.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; I would even say: &q=
uot;The minute the LSP originator changes the LSP then you</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; have LSDB inconsiste=
ncy.&quot; But no big deal if there is disagreement on this</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; detail.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; That is going t=
o last until the last node in the network has updated it&#39;s LSDB.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Absolutely.</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; So the faster we flo=
od, the shorter the LSBD inconsistency.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Now IMO, even if a s=
ingle/few nodes flood faster, there is a chance of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; shortening the LSDB =
inconsistency. But in all cases, I don&#39;t see how this could</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; make the LSDB incons=
istency longer.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Les is pointing=
 out that LSDB inconsistency can be bad in certain</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; circumstances e.g., =
if a critical node is slow and thus inconsistent.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; I believe the r=
ight way to fix this is a simple one, help the operator flag the</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; broken router softwa=
re/hardware for replacement, but otherwise IS-IS</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; should just try to d=
o the best job it can do to which is to flood around the</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; problem (i.e., flood=
 as optimally as possible).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; +1</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; On a side note, I wo=
uld not call a router flooding slowly as &quot;broken&quot;. I find it</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; understandable that =
in a given network there are different type of routers</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; (core vs aggregation=
), different roles (P having 50 IGP adjacencies with 50 PEs</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; vs PE having only 2 =
IGP adjacencies with 2 P), different hardware</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; generations, differe=
nt software, different vendors with different</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; perspectives/markets=
.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Thank you Chris.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt;
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; --Bruno</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; Chris.</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; [as WG member]<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On May 6, =
2020, at 10:33 AM,
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a> wrote:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Les,</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Les =
Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wedn=
esday, May 6, 2020 4:14 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: DECRAE=
NE Bruno TGI/OLN</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: R=
E: Flooding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno =E2=
=80=93</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I am somew=
hat at a loss to understand your comments.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The exampl=
e is straightforward and does not need to consider FIB update</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; time nor the orderin=
g of prefix updates on different nodes.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] Th=
e example is straightforward but you are referring to FIB and IP</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; packets forwarding a=
s per those FIBs.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I=E2=80=99=
d like we focus on LSP flooding and LSDB consistency.</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Consider t=
he state of Node B and Node D at various time points from the</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; trigger event.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+ 2 secon=
ds:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----------=
-------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; B has rece=
ived all LSP Updates. It triggers an SPF and for all Northbound</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; destinations previou=
sly reachable via C it installs paths via D.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=
=99s assume it take 5 seconds to update the forwarding plane.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has rece=
ived 40 of the 1000 LSP updates. It triggers an SPF and finds</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; that all Northbound =
destinations are reachable via B-C. It makes no changes</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; to the forwarding pl=
ane.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+7 second=
s</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----------=
-------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; B has comp=
leted FIB updates. Traffic to all Northbound destinations is</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; being forwarded via =
D.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has now =
received 140 of the 1000 LSP updates. Entries in its forwarding</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; plane for Northbound=
 destinations still point to B.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; We have a =
loop.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T + 30 sec=
onds</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----------=
----------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has now =
received 600 of the 1000 LSP updates. Still no changes to its</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; forwarding plane.</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Traffic to=
 Northbound destinations is still looping.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T+ 50 seco=
nds</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----------=
---------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has fina=
lly received all 1000 LSP updates..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; It trigger=
s (another) SPF and calculates paths to Northbound destinations</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; via E. It begins to =
update its forwarding plane.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=
=99s assume this will take 5 seconds..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; T + 55 sec=
onds</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ----------=
----------</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D has comp=
leted forwarding plane updates =E2=80=93 no more looping.</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; That is al=
l I am trying to illustrate.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If you wan=
t to start arguing that node protecting LFAs + microloop</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; avoidance could help=
 (NOTE I explicitly=C2=A0 took those out of the example for</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; simplicity) =E2=80=
=93 it is easy enough to change the example to include multiple node</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; failures or a node f=
ailure plus some northbound link failures on other nodes.</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] I=
=E2=80=99m not talking about LFA/FRR. And with regards to microloops</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; avoidance, some algo=
rithms can handle any graph transition so including</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; multiple node failur=
es.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; But again,=
 let=E2=80=99s stick to LSP flooding and LSDB consistency. (you are the</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; one speaking about m=
icroloops in the forwarding plane).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The point =
here is to look at the impact of long-lived LSDB inconsistency</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; which results when s=
ome nodes support flooding an order of magnitude</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; faster flooding than=
 other nodes =E2=80=93 which is what you asked me to clarify.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] No=
. I asked you to clarify why having a node with faster flooding</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; could prolongs the p=
eriod of LSDB inconsistency.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Again, wit=
h you own words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; support faster flood=
ing the behavior of the whole network may not be</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &quot;better&quot; w=
hen faster flooding is enabled because it prolongs the period of</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; LSDB inconsistency.=
=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; And with l=
ess words: =E2=80=9Cwhen only some nodes in the network support</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; faster flooding [=E2=
=80=A6]=C2=A0 it prolongs the period of LSDB inconsistency.=E2=80=9D</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --Bruno<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From:
<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decrae=
ne@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wedn=
esday, May 06, 2020 6:21 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: Les Gi=
nsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc:
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a></span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: R=
E: Flooding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Les,</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Les =
Ginsberg (ginsberg) [<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com</a>]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wedn=
esday, May 6, 2020 1:35 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; To: DECRAE=
NE Bruno TGI/OLN;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf..org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf..org</a></span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: R=
E: Flooding across a network</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno -</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Seems like=
 it was not too long ago that we were discussing this in person.</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; Ahhh...the good old =
days...</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; [Bruno] In=
deed, may be not to the point of concluding. Indeed.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; First, let=
&#39;s agree that the interesting case does not involve 1 or even a</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; small number of LSPs=
. For those cases flooding speed does not matter.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The intere=
sting cases involve a large number of LSPs (hundreds or</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; thousands). And in s=
uch cases LFA/microloop avoidance techniques are not</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; applicable.</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Take the f=
ollowing simple topology:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 | ... |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | C |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | E |</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | 1000</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | B |-------------| D |</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=C2=A0=C2=A0 1000=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
+---+</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0/</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 \=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 /</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 | A |=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +---+=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; There is a=
 topology northbound of C and E (not shown) and a topology</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; southbound of A (not=
 shown).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Cost on al=
l links is 10 except B-D and D-E where cost is high.</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; C is a nod=
e with 1000 neighbors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; When all l=
inks are up, shortest path for all northbound destinations is via</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; C.</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; All nodes =
in the network support fast flooding except for Node D.</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Let=E2=80=
=99s say fast flooding is 500 LSPs/second and slow flooding (Node D) is 20<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; LSPs/seconds.</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If=C2=A0 N=
ode C fails we have 1000 LSPs to flood.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; All nodes =
except for D can receive these in 2 seconds (plus internode</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; delay time).</span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D can rece=
ive LSPs in 50 seconds.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_6339842505386838829m-4910320200823046147msoplaintext" style=
=3D"margin-left:70.8pt"></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_sig=
nature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.ver=
izon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-=
block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWir=
eless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:=
81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Ve=
rizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan M=
ishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><=
font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network=
 Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>r=
chitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-heigh=
t:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>1310=
1 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 02:39:45 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV3jQ=C6ynJBsKhJW_b=hkq7CKPFG2ci0vXE_0jZH9KtXQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/cOVKuTv2fgKUG04Z1WG_fTpJf5U>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.

Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
flooding topology based on the algorithm.

This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link
state routing protocol convergence.

Gyan

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:

> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000e9cfc705a5fa8c1c
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<div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few =
questions related to the draft.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm u=
sed in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where =
the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flo=
oding algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by t=
he area leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each=
 mode the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes =
the flooding topology based on the algorithm. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood red=
uction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely mesh=
ed ospf or Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would im=
proving overall link state routing protocol convergence.</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM =
Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com">yfan@casa-systems.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-452825092809012430WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-au=
thor.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></=
span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"=
><div class=3D"m_-452825092809012430WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week =
(due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Compu=
tation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to =
this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>,
 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" target=3D"_blank">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000e9cfc705a5fa8c1c--


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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
References: <28938a998b384038b6dd513db00072cf@nokia-sbell.com> <48FED425-3613-42BD-9892-4CD6786EF1BB@gmail.com> <c142498d599848878eda62eae76ea3e9@nokia-sbell.com> <CABNhwV3qDts57XyD4B4bzwD=m9we2m+M9HJ++S8f=-=Lh6+pXQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 09:38:08 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/7-VE3tmgxFZAPf1tH3k_vBfN7Cw>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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Gyan,

On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> 
> Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help reduced 
> SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS, 

though segment list reduction may be seen as one of the benefits of the 
flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivation behind it. The 
primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynamic any to any 
constrained based routing.

> however can 
> the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it’s an IGP extension used in any 
> pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.

SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can be used, if it 
provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.

> 
> Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or PPR(preferred 
> path routing).

same answer as above.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Gyan
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) 
> <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing information;____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Cheers!
> 
>     ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Wang Weibin____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *From:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
>     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* 2020年5月10日 3:24
>     *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>
>     *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
>     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>; lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Weibin,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains,
>     would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has implemented
>     node capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to be
>     pruned.____
> 
>     The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with global view
>     computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS + PCEP
>     scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes that
>     meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in
>     topology/capabilities would cause path recalculation/reoptimization
>     on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the topology
>     locally.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Regards,____
> 
>     Jeff____
> 
> 
> 
>     ____
> 
>         On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>> wrote:____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Ketan, thank you for clarification.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Cheers!____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Wang Weibin____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
>         <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>
>         *Sent:* 2020年5月9日 14:52
>         *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>; lsr@ietf.org
>         <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Hi Wang,____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         You are correct. Though I wouldn’t call it a goal but rather a
>         benefit/advantage – same applies to SR-MPLS where the label
>         stack can be reduced.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Thanks,____
> 
>         Ketan____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>
>         *On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>         *Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07
>         *To:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>         *Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Hi authors:____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know
>         whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the
>         SRH size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6
>         deployment, because without flex-algo we have to have a big SRH
>         size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-algo
>         under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory
>         we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH,
>         but it still meet TE requirement. So my question is whether the
>         flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         /Cheers !/____
> 
>         **____
> 
>         *WANG Weibin*____
> 
>         _______________________________________________
>         Lsr mailing list
>         Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr____
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     Lsr mailing list
>     Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> 
> -- 
> 
> Gyan  Mishra
> 
> Network Engineering & Technology
> 
> Verizon
> 
> Silver Spring, MD 20904
> 
> Phone: 301 502-1347
> 
> Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
> 
> 
> 


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To: elwynd <elwynd@googlemail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
Cc: "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
References: <5ec2f7c9.1c69fb81.720d3.4998@mx.google.com>
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 10:00:32 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
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Elwyn,

On 18/05/2020 23:02, elwynd wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I am not convinced by the discussion that has ensued from my review.
> 
> s3, para 3:
> 
>     If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD
>     advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
> 
> - Both Acee amd I didn't immediately understand that 'every local host prefix' was not every
>    prefix that the router might advertise.  It would be good to explain that this is the case.

what exactly needs to be explained? The local property of the prefix?

> 
> - As I previously stated, with a SHOULD it ought to be explained why one might not want to
>    advertise the ELC with some subset of the local host prefixes.

SHOUDL is used not to say that one does it for subset of host prefixes, 
but rather because MUST can not be used for reasons mentioned earlier.

 From the functionality perspective it is sufficient to advertise it 
with a single local prefix. We specified for "every local prefix" to 
make it simpler.

> 
> - Given that there are now two sets of prefixes, would/SHOULD/MUST ELC be advertised with the
>    prefixes that are not local host prefixes?

no, only with local host prefixes. I can add  "MUST NOT be advertised 
with any other prefix" if that's what you are after.


> 
> s4, para 3:
> 
>     The absence of ERLD-MSD advertisements indicates only that the
>     advertising node does not support advertisement of this capability.
> 
> Firstly, I cannot see why this statement or its absence might affect other EL mechanisms that
> don't use OSPF to do signaling of ELC.

It does not. All we say that if it is not advertised by OSPF, it means 
the router does not support the advertisement in OSPF. Nothing else. It 
has no effect on any other mechanisms that might be used to derive these 
capabilities.

> 
> If I understand RFC 8662 correctly, if OSPF is being used to distribute ELC adverts and the ERLD
> is not advertised by OSPF, then either the ERLD has to be supplied by other means or it will
> effectively default to zero.
> 
> Thus, I would suggest that the paragraph above should be replaced with:
> 
>     Advertisement of ERLD via OSPF using ERLD-MSD is OPTIONAL.  If a router does not advertise
>     ERLD, then the EL positioning calculations described in [RFC8662] will assume a vaue of zero
>     for the ERLD of this router unless a different value is supplied by alternative means.

I don't think we should be specifying anything that belongs to RFC8662 
here in this draft. What we specify in this draft is how to advertise 
something in OSPF, not how this is being used, because this information 
is not used by OSPF. The usage of this info is outside of the scope of 
this draft and if anything needs to be added in that regard it should be 
done by updating the RFC8662.

regards,
Peter



> 
> Regards,
> 
> Elwyn
> 
> Sent from Samsung tablet.
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
> Date: 14/05/2020 21:43 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" 
> <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, gen-art@ietf.org
> Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
> 
> Hi Alvaro, Elwyn,
> 
> *From: *Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 3:46 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" 
> <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Elwyn Davies <elwynd@dial.pipex.com>, 
> "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, 
> "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" 
> <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Yes, we cannot specify something that routers unaware of this 
> specification should or shouldn’t do.
> 
> I believe that Elwyn’s point is this: *if a router supports this 
> specification* then when would it not advertise the ELC?  IOW, the 
> specification only obviously applies to implementations that support it 
> — in that case I would think that if a router supports ELs on all of its 
> interfaces then it would always advertise the ELC, right?
> 
> That’s true – but not advertising the OSPF capability could imply that 
> either ELC MSD or advertisement of the OSPF capability is not supported. 
> Although I might not have worded it as such, that was clear to me from 
> the text. Feel free to recommend alternate text if you feel it is 
> necessary.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Acee
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> On May 11, 2020 at 3:18:34 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com 
> <mailto:acee@cisco.com>) wrote:
> 
>     Note that the optionality of ERLD-MSD advertisements appears on
>     reflection to be a more serious issue than just an editorial nit.
> 
>     So what would you suggest? There are existing implementations that
>     support multipath forwarding entropy using MPLS entropy labels but
>     do not signal that capability in OSPF. We can't have a document that
>     retroactively mandates that they signal it. This wouldn't be
>     backward compatible. How can you possibly see this as a serious issue?
> 


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute Reuse
        Authors         : Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12.txt
	Pages           : 21
	Date            : 2020-05-19

Abstract:
   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  Since the
   original RSVP-TE use case was defined, additional applications (e.g.,
   Segment Routing Traffic Engineering, Loop Free Alternate) have been
   defined which also make use of the link attribute advertisements.  In
   cases where multiple applications wish to make use of these link
   attributes the current advertisements do not support application
   specific values for a given attribute nor do they support indication
   of which applications are using the advertised value for a given
   link.  This document introduces new link attribute advertisements in
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 which address both of these shortcomings.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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There are also htmlized versions available at:
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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12


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Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

This is a straight forward document, thanks.

Is there any associated YANG module required to manage this protocol
enhancement?  If so, is that already being worked or, or planned work for the
WG?

Regards,
Rob




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COMMENT:
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Hi,

Same comment as for equivalent OSPF draft.

Is there any associated YANG module required to manage this protocol
enhancement?  If so, is that already being worked or, or planned work for the
WG?

Regards,
Rob




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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWLcQkBDMo31f08UCX338ZXvyL2qivAAcA
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 11:19:08 +0000
Message-ID: <6C7A8B8D-4B1F-4EB1-81A3-97028B8F4841@cisco.com>
References: <158988234165.12066.13516127881736126146@ietfa.amsl.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
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Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>,  "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>
References: <158771396796.16808.7505639544953079846@ietfa.amsl.com> <E17FABFB-FF20-4BB0-8A2A-214A4E5DE04E@cisco.com> <db960001-7069-53da-d494-f7b12566756c@ericsson.com> <08CE25A6-F1BF-49BF-8DF1-B947096F562F@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/35gVvXJn65Qc5hf-q7Q8hueoPOs>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-11
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Mohit, thanks for your review. Acee, thanks for your responses. I =
entered a No Objection ballot.

Alissa


> On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:26 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Mohit,=20
> =20
> From: Mohit Sethi M <mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com =
<mailto:mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 2:29 AM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>, =
"gen-art@ietf.org <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>" <gen-art@ietf.org =
<mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>>
> Cc: "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>" =
<draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org =
<mailto:draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org>>, "last-call@ietf.org =
<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>" <last-call@ietf.org =
<mailto:last-call@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-11
> =20
> HI Acee,
>=20
> On 4/24/20 3:38 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Hi Mohit,
>> =20
>> Speaking as document shepherd. See inline.=20
>> =20
>> On 4/24/20, 3:39 AM, "Mohit Sethi via Datatracker" <noreply@ietf.org> =
<mailto:noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>> =20
>>     Reviewer: Mohit Sethi
>>     Review result: Ready with Nits
>> =20
>>     I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General =
Area
>>     Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
>>     by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
>>     like any other last call comments.
>> =20
>>     For more information, please see the FAQ at
>> =20
>>     <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq> =
<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>> =20
>>     Document: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-11
>>     Reviewer: Mohit Sethi
>>     Review Date: 2020-04-24
>>     IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05
>>     IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
>> =20
>>     Summary: This document specifies how Entropy Label Capability =
(ELC) and Entropy
>>     Readable Label Depth (ERLD) are advertised using IS-IS. For =
advertising ELC, a
>>     flag in the Prefix Attribute Flags is used. For advertising ERLD, =
a Node MSD
>>     Advertisement is used.
>> =20
>>     Major issues:
>> =20
>>     Minor issues: The document is short and straightforward. For =
someone like me
>>     who is not familiar with the routing area, would it make sense to =
explain why
>>     signalling ELC information with MPLS is not sufficient (or what =
are the
>>     benefits of advertising with IS-IS)?
>> =20
>> I guess I'm wondering what you mean "signaling ELC information with =
MPLS"? With segment routing, the IGPs can be the only choice for =
signaling ELC capability. I don=E2=80=99t believe this comment requires =
any action.=20
> I hope that you don't expect a gen-art reviewer to be an expert on =
every topic. I certainly am NOT on expert on routing. I interpreted the =
following text in the draft:
>=20
>> It also
>>    introduces the concept of Entropy Label Capability (ELC) and =
defines
>>    the signaling of this capability via MPLS signaling protocols.
> to imply that signaling ELC information with MPLS is possible but this =
draft defines a mechanism for signaling the same information with IS-IS. =
Maybe the need for this is very obvious for those in the routing domain =
in which case ignoring my comment is perfectly fine.=20
> =20
> Even though you are not an expert on routing, you should realize that =
=E2=80=9Cwith MPLS=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cvia MPLS signaling protocols=E2=80=
=9D have very different connotations. If you reference section 3 of the =
reference document [RFC6790], you=E2=80=99ll the MPLS signaling =
protocols currently supporting ELC signaling. As I stated previously, =
with segment routing none of these protocols are required for =
deployment.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> --Mohit
>=20
>> =20
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>> =20
>> =20
>>     Nits/editorial comments:
>> =20
>>     In section 3, "used as the ECL  Flag" should perhaps be "used as =
the ELC Flag"?
>>     In section 4, "IANA for EARLD-MSD" should perhaps be "IANA for =
ERLD-MSD"?
>>     In section 6, "ECL Flag (E-flag)." should perhaps be "ELC Flag =
(E-flag)."?
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Gen-art mailing list
> Gen-art@ietf.org <mailto:Gen-art@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Mohit, thanks for your review. Acee, thanks for your =
responses. I entered a No Objection ballot.<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Alissa</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:26 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
Mohit,<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Mohit Sethi M &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mohit.m.sethi@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Wednesday, April 29, =
2020 at 2:29 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:gen-art@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">gen-art@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gen-art@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">gen-art@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.all@ietf.org</a>&gt;, "<a =
href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">last-call@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:last-call@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">last-call@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Re: Genart last call =
review of draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-11<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><p =
style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" class=3D"">HI Acee,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">On 4/24/20 3:38 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">Hi Mohit,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">Speaking as document shepherd. See inline. <o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">On 4/24/20, 3:39 AM, "Mohit Sethi via Datatracker" <a =
href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">&lt;noreply@ietf.org&gt;</a> wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reviewer: Mohit Sethi<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Review result: Ready with Nits<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for =
this draft. The General Area<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Review Team =
(Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; by the IESG for the IETF Chair.&nbsp; =
Please treat these comments just<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; like any other =
last call comments.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For more =
information, please see the FAQ at<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">&lt;https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq&gt;</a>.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Document: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-11<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reviewer: Mohit Sethi<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Review Date: 2020-04-24<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-05<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a =
telechat<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Summary: This document =
specifies how Entropy Label Capability (ELC) and Entropy<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Readable Label Depth (ERLD) are advertised =
using IS-IS. For advertising ELC, a<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; flag in the =
Prefix Attribute Flags is used. For advertising ERLD, a Node MSD<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Advertisement is used.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Major issues:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Minor issues: The document is short and =
straightforward. For someone like me<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; who is not =
familiar with the routing area, would it make sense to explain why<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; signalling ELC information with MPLS is =
not sufficient (or what are the<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; benefits of =
advertising with IS-IS)?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">I guess I'm wondering what you mean =
"signaling ELC information with MPLS"? With segment routing, the IGPs =
can be the only choice for signaling ELC capability. I don=E2=80=99t =
believe this comment requires any action. <o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre></blockquote><p style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" =
class=3D"">I hope that you don't expect a gen-art reviewer to be an =
expert on every topic. I certainly am NOT on expert on routing. I =
interpreted the following text in the draft:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">It also<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; introduces the concept =
of Entropy Label Capability (ELC) and defines<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp; the signaling of this capability via MPLS =
signaling protocols.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">to imply that signaling ELC information =
with MPLS is possible but this draft defines a mechanism for signaling =
the same information with IS-IS. Maybe the need for this is very obvious =
for those in the routing domain in which case ignoring my comment is =
perfectly fine.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Even =
though you are not an expert on routing, you should realize that =E2=80=9C=
with MPLS=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cvia MPLS signaling protocols=E2=80=9D =
have very different connotations. If you reference section 3 of the =
reference document [RFC6790], you=E2=80=99ll the MPLS signaling =
protocols currently supporting ELC signaling. As I stated previously, =
with segment routing none of these protocols are required for =
deployment.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">Acee<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><p =
style=3D"margin-left: 0.5in;" class=3D"">--Mohit<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">Acee<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nits/editorial =
comments:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In section 3, "used as the =
ECL&nbsp; Flag" should perhaps be "used as the ELC Flag"?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In section 4, "IANA for EARLD-MSD" should =
perhaps be "IANA for ERLD-MSD"?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In section 6, =
"ECL Flag (E-flag)." should perhaps be "ELC Flag (E-flag)."?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></pre></blockquote></div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Gen-art mailing list</span><br =
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text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Gen-art@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">Gen-art@ietf.org</a><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
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normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
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class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art</a><br =
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class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/rG-IpIMAHXFas5HA1LZmTDmnl74>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Two editorial nits:
** Section 3.  Editorial.  s/ When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS
levels ([RFC5302],/When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels
[RFC5302],/

** Section 4.  Figure 2.  The text says that “A MSD-Type Code 2 has been
assigned by IANA”, but Figure 2 says “MSD-Type=TBD2”.




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References: <28938a998b384038b6dd513db00072cf@nokia-sbell.com> <48FED425-3613-42BD-9892-4CD6786EF1BB@gmail.com> <c142498d599848878eda62eae76ea3e9@nokia-sbell.com> <CABNhwV3qDts57XyD4B4bzwD=m9we2m+M9HJ++S8f=-=Lh6+pXQ@mail.gmail.com> <17654e27-0efa-bcff-67ba-01541ebc350d@cisco.com>
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:37:14 -0400
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To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>,  "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

> Gyan,
>
> On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> >
> > Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help reduced
> > SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS,
>
> though segment list reduction may be seen as one of the benefits of the
> flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivation behind it. The
> primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynamic any to any
> constrained based routing.
>
> > however can
> > the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=99s an IGP extension used=
 in any
> > pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.
>
> SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can be used, if it
> provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.
>

    Gyan> Please clarify.  I would think that since the flex algo
capability is part of the IGP independent of the data plane is what you are
saying, so any data plane can use the feature.

So you are saying even if it can that their maybe a data plane specific
algo awareness to be able to use or route the algo specific traffic.  So
for example can native IPv4 or IPv6 date plane can it without any specific
algo awareness can it utilitize flex algo constraint based steering.  Also
others mentioned is their special hooks or programming required to make it
work with RSVP-TE or PPR.

>
> >
> > Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or PPR(preferred
> > path routing).
>
> same answer as above.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Gyan
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> > <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing information;____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Cheers!
> >
> >     ____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Wang Weibin____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     *From:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>>
> >     *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8810=E6=97=A5 3:24
> >     *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>
> >     *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>; lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> >     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Weibin,____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains,
> >     would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has implemente=
d
> >     node capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to be
> >     pruned.____
> >
> >     The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with global view
> >     computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS + PCEP
> >     scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes that
> >     meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in
> >     topology/capabilities would cause path recalculation/reoptimization
> >     on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the topology
> >     locally.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Regards,____
> >
> >     Jeff____
> >
> >
> >
> >     ____
> >
> >         On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>> wrote:____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Ketan, thank you for clarification.____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Cheers!____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Wang Weibin____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> >         <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>
> >         *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 14:52
> >         *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>; lsr@ietf.org
> >         <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> >         *Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Hi Wang,____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goal but r=
ather a
> >         benefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS where the l=
abel
> >         stack can be reduced.____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Thanks,____
> >
> >         Ketan____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>=
>
> >         *On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >         *Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07
> >         *To:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> >         *Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         Hi authors:____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to know
> >         whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the
> >         SRH size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6
> >         deployment, because without flex-algo we have to have a big SRH
> >         size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable flex-alg=
o
> >         under special topology and link constraint condition, in theory
> >         we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel without SRH,
> >         but it still meet TE requirement. So my question is whether the
> >         flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         ____
> >
> >         /Cheers !/____
> >
> >         **____
> >
> >         *WANG Weibin*____
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         Lsr mailing list
> >         Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
> >         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr____
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Lsr mailing list
> >     Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >
> > --
> >
> > Gyan  Mishra
> >
> > Network Engineering & Technology
> >
> > Verizon
> >
> > Silver Spring, MD 20904
> >
> > Phone: 301 502-1347
> >
> > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, M=
ay 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com=
">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
Gyan,<br>
<br>
On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help reduced=
 <br>
&gt; SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS, <br>
<br>
though segment list reduction may be seen as one of the benefits of the <br=
>
flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivation behind it. The <br>
primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynamic any to any <br>
constrained based routing.<br>
<br>
&gt; however can <br>
&gt; the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=99s an IGP extension use=
d in any <br>
&gt; pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.<br>
<br>
SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can be used, if it <br>
provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.<br>
</blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gy=
an&gt; Please clarify.=C2=A0 I would think that since the flex algo capabil=
ity is part of the IGP independent of the data plane is what you are saying=
, so any data plane can use the feature.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">So you are saying even if it can that their maybe a =
data plane specific algo awareness to be able to use or route the algo spec=
ific traffic.=C2=A0 So for example can native IPv4 or IPv6 date plane can i=
t without any specific algo awareness can it utilitize flex algo constraint=
 based steering.=C2=A0 Also others mentioned is their special hooks or prog=
ramming required to make it work with RSVP-TE or PPR.</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or PPR(preferre=
d <br>
&gt; path routing).<br>
<br>
same answer as above.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Kind regards<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Gyan<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">w=
eibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nok=
ia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing in=
formation;____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers!<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Wang Weibin____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftan=
t.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8810=E6=97=A5 3:24<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia=
-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____<b=
r>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Weibin,____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizatio=
ns constrains,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERL=
D has implemented<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0node capabilities only, so all links on a node will=
 have to be<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pruned.____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller w=
ith global view<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0computing a path that meets the constraints(classic=
al BGP-LS + PCEP<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connect=
ed nodes that<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology/capabilities would cause path recalculatio=
n/reoptimization<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recomput=
e the topology<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0locally.____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibi=
n (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nok=
ia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.w=
ang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&=
gt; wrote:____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ketan, thank you for clarification.__=
__<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers!____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Wang Weibin____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>=
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@c=
isco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=
=97=A5 14:52<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai=
)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nok=
ia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.w=
ang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&=
gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-al=
go____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Wang,____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=
=80=99t call it a goal but rather a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0benefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same appl=
ies to SR-MPLS where the label<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stack can be reduced.____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ketan____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr=
-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN=
/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-=
algo____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi authors:____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0After reading through this draft lsr-=
flex-algo, I want to know<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether there is a potential goal of =
this draft to reduce the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH size with enabling flex-algo with=
 admin group in SRv6<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployment, because without flex-algo=
 we have to have a big SRH<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0size when the SRH include more SRv6 S=
IDs, if we enable flex-algo<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under special topology and link const=
raint condition, in theory<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we can even construct =C2=A0a end to =
end SR path/tunnel without SRH,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but it still meet TE requirement. So =
my question is whether the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0flex-algo can be used as tool to redu=
ce SRH size?____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/Cheers !/____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0**____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*WANG Weibin*____<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________________=
__________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/lsr____" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/lsr____</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">L=
sr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ls=
r" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/lsr</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Gyan=C2=A0 Mishra<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Network Engineering &amp; Technology<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Verizon<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Silver Spring, MD 20904<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Phone: 301 502-1347<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@ve=
rizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000072a66105a607ecd8--


From nobody Tue May 19 15:43:53 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question about the scope of some normative language, which may
or may not be problematic but I'm too ignorant of OSPF details to be
able to answer myself.  In Section 3 we say that:

   When an OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
   connected areas it MUST preserve the ELC setting.

My undesrtanding is that it's normal operation for an ABR to
distribution information about prefixes and such between areas, and in
particular that an ABR does not necessarily need to know the semantic
details of every bit of information being distributed in that fashion.
So, I am imagining a scenario where some routers in both areas
advertise/understand the ELC flag but the ABR between them does not
implement this spec.  What would happen in such a scenario?  If the ABR
is still expected to distribute the ELC setting without change, isn't
that just a core requirement from the respective OSPF specs, as opposed
to a new requirement imposed by this spec (which, in this scenario, the
ABR is not claiming to adhere to anyway)?

There is perhaps a similar question about the ASBR guidance, though when
doing cross-protocol signalling there is a more clear need for the ASBR
to understand the semantics of the flags it is redistributing (and it's
only a "SHOULD").


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1

The abstract is pretty explicit that "this draft defines" both ELC and
ERLD signaling capabilities, but this section only has a clear statement
for the ELC.  Should we put something at the end of the last paragraph
about "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using OSPFv2
and OSPFv3"?

   In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be

side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
surprising to me.

Section 3

   If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD
   advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.

Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
prefixes?

Section 7

Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
to external parties?

   This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
   capabilities using OSPF and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
   considerations as described in [RFC5340], [RFC7770], [RFC7752],
   [RFC7684], [RFC8476], [RFC8662],

RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
directly in this list as well.

   [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
   [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
   document.

Could we also have a brief note that the (respective) OSPF security
mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?

   Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
   redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
   node.

This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
occur)?

Section 8

I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
co-authors?

Section 10.2

It's slightly surprising to see the core OSPF protocols only listed as
informative, but I can see how they are to be considered "basic
specifications" in the vein of
https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/normative-informative-references/




From nobody Tue May 19 15:44:46 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSPF
document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
they only appear for one document's review.

Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
in Section 3:

   When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
   MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.

The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
implement this document?

Likewise, the ASBR case for cross-protocol redistribution seems to
rather inherently require understanding the semantics of the flags being
translated.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1

Should we add a sentence at the end of the last paragraph about how
"this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using IS-IS"?

   In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be

side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
surprising to me.

Section 3

   unless all of its interfaces are capable of processing ELs.  If a
   router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC
   for every local host prefix it advertises in IS-IS.

Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
prefixes?

Section 4

I agree with Roman's comment about code 2 vs TBD2.

   ERLD in the range between 0 to 255.  The scope of the advertisement
   depends on the application.  If a router has multiple interfaces with

Just to check: w.r.t. "scope", both this document and the OSPF one only
define usage of this MSD type at the scope of a single node, right?  (I
don't see a particular reason to preclude using it at a different
scope.)

Section 6

      - Bit 3 in the Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV
      registry has been assigned to the ELC Flag.  IANA is asked to

Is there an "IS-IS" in the name of this registry?

Section 7

Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
to external parties?

   This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
   capabilities using IS-IS and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
   considerations as described in [RFC7981], [RFC7752], [RFC7794],
   [RFC8491], [RFC8662], [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and

RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
directly in this list as well.

   [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
   document.

Could we also have a brief note that the normal IS-IS authentication
mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?

   Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
   redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
   node.

This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
occur)?

Section 8

I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
co-authors?

Section 10.1

Should we reference RFC 7981 from Section 4 as well?  Right now we seem
to only use it for the security considerations, which is not necessarily
enough to qualify it as a normative reference.




From nobody Tue May 19 20:52:32 2020
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/WLAINv_6RtO04_nKdJxF5weH_fM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thank you very much for your questions and support.

    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmai=
l.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dma=
rc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.

Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.

This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.

Gyan

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&sdata=3DyBEjECqdVgodmO5T3C%2FRQE2=
1bFKOWX6lpJA0CMdJ18A%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
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=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1=
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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD


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<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
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<br>
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<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></=
div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
>&nbsp; &nbsp; This F</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(50, 49, 48); font-fam=
ily: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); di=
splay: inline !important; font-size: 12pt;">looding
</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(50, 49, 48); font-family: Arial, Helvetica=
, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !import=
ant; font-size: 12pt;">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(50, 49, 48); font-family: Arial, Helvetica=
, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !import=
ant; font-size: 12pt;">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"=
color: rgb(50, 49, 48); font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI W=
eb (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSyst=
emFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: r=
gb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"><span style=3D"font-family: =
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display=
: inline !important; font-size: 12pt;">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the&nbsp;d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
>Best Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"=
>Huaimo</span></div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;hayabusagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;yfan@casa-systems.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=
=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.&nbsp; In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yan=
he Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com">yfan@casa-systems.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-452825092809012430WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-=
author.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-452825092809012430WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u=
></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 wee=
k (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding Topology Computati=
on Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list =
by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>,
 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.iet=
f.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaim=
o.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&amp;sdata=3DyBEjECqdVgodmO5T=
3C%2FRQE21bFKOWX6lpJA0CMdJ18A%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"PSGrXs&#=
43;M1d&#43;83B61ghQmtFyhunNMpdkfRcLqtn2XKTee5JqkLLA2T05pbHYh1HZls2xEIk9&#43=
;0osjhjzveki6iSy3ArauiEuAry3M&#43;fQU1eR3OWk&#43;OXUORL7&#43;neiZy6fPpg8jBW=
a7diqgGzRc4iBhKFVevtcqwnJy9IdVDiGemuo=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&amp;sdata=3DhTQLnO1j3UqxcJP2hEs9D=
pYQiSOZpw00SF2LNrwgtKc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" shash=3D"lyeHakc0ieopTqOLnZhGup8Vo1Ss1j4/SVG6erE=
O9klCIXOnnSveAX1szsni6FruOP7voq9EEyz/EgDDJdfzvqbLDbPh8ql1&#43;pbxSoMNBgarDV=
xf4bPe496rzofO&#43;yivnftQHtcVM3dbQH4egS1cXjRZzRX2KRY25v1W4dR3VKQ=3D" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=
</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267321230&amp;sdata=3DmYvXS9UFr5=
23Pxr9%2B3Il52dsAEPsTWglyYsCtUDUdo0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"htt=
p://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"oifcHM1IRKpHA8Hnt1VT2SiPwPbraUdmFyzfeyRf8NAK=
pikGWcXYvLZuuYRkuEvusxqZAnglvOn7SOZ9t2bgbZ4pZtN1g2C&#43;2wWe7Hp7&#43;KawVFz=
VMd4TAimhX7JuiZ3t45b9mf5hIczz7Bk5ZhYO4Nlx1EZt7OHTO/FQwtEbP98=3D" target=3D"=
_blank" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204); padding-bottom:1em; display:inline-b=
lock"><img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; width:81px" src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
</div>
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
References: <28938a998b384038b6dd513db00072cf@nokia-sbell.com> <48FED425-3613-42BD-9892-4CD6786EF1BB@gmail.com> <c142498d599848878eda62eae76ea3e9@nokia-sbell.com> <CABNhwV3qDts57XyD4B4bzwD=m9we2m+M9HJ++S8f=-=Lh6+pXQ@mail.gmail.com> <17654e27-0efa-bcff-67ba-01541ebc350d@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2-fH07f5iOedVgkP0-d7g=rgrVR7zV84w4VtQ+6ujzTA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/XWpwl9Y4X3lAtMRw2DphcGW1WH8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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On 20/05/2020 00:37, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com 
> <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Gyan,
> 
>     On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:
>      >
>      > Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help
>     reduced
>      > SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS,
> 
>     though segment list reduction may be seen as one of the benefits of the
>     flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivation behind it. The
>     primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynamic any to any
>     constrained based routing.
> 
>      > however can
>      > the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it’s an IGP extension used
>     in any
>      > pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.
> 
>     SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can be used, if it
>     provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.
> 
> 
>      Gyan> Please clarify.  I would think that since the flex algo 
> capability is part of the IGP independent of the data plane is what you 
> are saying, so any data plane can use the feature.

not really. You need to have a way to forward traffic for different 
algos over different paths.

> 
> So you are saying even if it can that their maybe a data plane specific 
> algo awareness to be able to use or route the algo specific traffic.  So 
> for example can native IPv4 or IPv6 date plane can it without any 
> specific algo awareness can it utilitize flex algo constraint based 
> steering.  

if you have IP prefix P1 and you want to be able to send the traffic to 
it via 3 different paths via native IPv4 network how would you do that?

> Also others mentioned is their special hooks or programming 
> required to make it work with RSVP-TE or PPR.
> 

I let RSVP experts to find a way how to use the flex-algo paths. I'm 
sure there are ways to do so :)

thanks,
Peter

> 
>      >
>      > Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or
>     PPR(preferred
>      > path routing).
> 
>     same answer as above.
> 
>     thanks,
>     Peter
> 
>      >
>      > Kind regards
>      >
>      > Gyan
>      >
>      > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>      > <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>> wrote:
>      >
>      >     Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing information;____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     Cheers!
>      >
>      >     ____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     Wang Weibin____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     *From:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
>     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>      >     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
>     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>>>
>      >     *Sent:* 2020年5月10日 3:24
>      >     *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>     <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
>      >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>>
>      >     *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
>     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>
>      >     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>>;
>     lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:lsr@ietf.org
>     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
>      >     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     Weibin,____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains,
>      >     would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has
>     implemented
>      >     node capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to be
>      >     pruned.____
>      >
>      >     The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with global
>     view
>      >     computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS
>     + PCEP
>      >     scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes that
>      >     meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in
>      >     topology/capabilities would cause path
>     recalculation/reoptimization
>      >     on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the topology
>      >     locally.____
>      >
>      >     __ __
>      >
>      >     Regards,____
>      >
>      >     Jeff____
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >     ____
>      >
>      >         On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>      >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
>      >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>> wrote:____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Ketan, thank you for clarification.____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Cheers!____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Wang Weibin____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
>     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>
>      >         <mailto:ketant@cisco.com <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>>
>      >         *Sent:* 2020年5月9日 14:52
>      >         *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>      >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
>      >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
>     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>>; lsr@ietf.org
>     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>      >         <mailto:lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf..org>>
>      >         *Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Hi Wang,____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         You are correct. Though I wouldn’t call it a goal but
>     rather a
>      >         benefit/advantage – same applies to SR-MPLS where the label
>      >         stack can be reduced.____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Thanks,____
>      >
>      >         Ketan____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>>
>      >         *On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
>      >         *Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07
>      >         *To:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
>      >         *Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         Hi authors:____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to
>     know
>      >         whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the
>      >         SRH size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6
>      >         deployment, because without flex-algo we have to have a
>     big SRH
>      >         size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable
>     flex-algo
>      >         under special topology and link constraint condition, in
>     theory
>      >         we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel
>     without SRH,
>      >         but it still meet TE requirement. So my question is
>     whether the
>      >         flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         ____
>      >
>      >         /Cheers !/____
>      >
>      >         **____
>      >
>      >         *WANG Weibin*____
>      >
>      >         _______________________________________________
>      >         Lsr mailing list
>      > Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org
>     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>>
>      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr____
>      >
>      >     _______________________________________________
>      >     Lsr mailing list
>      > Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org
>     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>>
>      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>      >
>      > --
>      >
>      > Gyan  Mishra
>      >
>      > Network Engineering & Technology
>      >
>      > Verizon
>      >
>      > Silver Spring, MD 20904
>      >
>      > Phone: 301 502-1347
>      >
>      > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com
>     <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com
>     <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>>
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
> -- 
> 
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
> 
> *Gyan Mishra*
> 
> /Network Solutions A//rchitect /
> 
> /M 301 502-1347
> 13101 Columbia Pike
> /Silver Spring, MD
> 
> 


From nobody Wed May 20 01:39:03 2020
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 10:38:52 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Roman,

On 20/05/2020 00:01, Roman Danyliw via Datatracker wrote:
> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Two editorial nits:
> ** Section 3.  Editorial.  s/ When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS
> levels ([RFC5302],/When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels
> [RFC5302],/

I must be missing something, but what's the diff between the original 
and proposed text?

> 
> ** Section 4.  Figure 2.  The text says that “A MSD-Type Code 2 has been
> assigned by IANA”, but Figure 2 says “MSD-Type=TBD2”.

the figure 2 has been removed based on the previous comments.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Wed May 20 03:32:47 2020
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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--00000000000074b0a805a611eaaa
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On May 20, 2020 at 4:38:54 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com) wrote:


> Two editorial nits:
> ** Section 3. Editorial. s/ When a router propagates a prefix between ISI=
S

> levels ([RFC5302],/When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels
> [RFC5302],/

I must be missing something, but what's the diff between the original
and proposed text?


The =E2=80=9C(=E2=80=9C =E2=80=A6. I think others may have commented to add=
 =E2=80=9C)=E2=80=9D.  Either way should
work.


Thanks!


Alvaro.

--00000000000074b0a805a611eaaa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on">On May 20=
, 2020 at 4:38:54 AM, Peter Psenak (<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">pp=
senak@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</p> <div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cle=
an_bq" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:norma=
l;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spaci=
ng:0px"><span><div></div><div><br>&gt; Two editorial nits:<span class=3D"Ap=
ple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>&gt; ** Section 3. Editorial. s/ When=
 a router propagates a prefix between ISIS<span class=3D"Apple-converted-sp=
ace">=C2=A0</span><br>&gt; levels ([RFC5302],/When a router propagates a pr=
efix between ISIS levels<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span>=
<br>&gt; [RFC5302],/<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>=
<br>I must be missing something, but what&#39;s the diff between the origin=
al<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span><br>and proposed text?=
<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0</span></div></span></blockquot=
e></div><p><br></p><p>The =E2=80=9C(=E2=80=9C =E2=80=A6. I think others may=
 have commented to add =E2=80=9C)=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 Either way should work.</=
p><p><br></p><p>Thanks!</p><p><br></p><p>Alvaro.</p></body></html>

--00000000000074b0a805a611eaaa--


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To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:58:48 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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On 20/05/2020 12:32, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> 
> 
> On May 20, 2020 at 4:38:54 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com 
> <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>) wrote:
> 
>>
>> > Two editorial nits:
>> > ** Section 3. Editorial. s/ When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS
>> > levels ([RFC5302],/When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels
>> > [RFC5302],/
>>
>> I must be missing something, but what's the diff between the original
>> and proposed text?
> 
> 
> The “(“ …. I think others may have commented to add “)”.  Either way 
> should work.

ah, yeah that has been fixed already :)

thanks,
Peter
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Alvaro.
> 


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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, "aretana.ietf@gmail.com" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:36:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Roman Danyliw's No Objection on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with COMMENT)
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From: LEI LIU <liulei.kddi@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 07:56:17 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org" <draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 IPR Poll
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Hi, Acee,

I am not aware of any IPR that applies to
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.

Best Regards.
Lei

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:47 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Authors,
>
>
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies
> to draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond
>
> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any
>
> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
>
> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a
>
> response has been received from each author and contributor.
>
>
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of
>
> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>

--000000000000cbfeee05a6159515
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi, Acee, <br><br>I am not aware of any IPR that applies t=
o draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08. <br><br>Best Regards.<br>Lei <br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:47 PM Acee Lin=
dem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5468895981030920737WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Authors, <u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Are you aware of any =
IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08.txt.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">If so, has this IPR b=
een disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">(see RFCs 3979, 4879,=
 3669 and 5378 for more details).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">If you are listed as =
a document author or contributor please respond<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">to this email regardl=
ess of whether or not you are aware of any<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">relevant IPR. *The re=
sponse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">list.* The document w=
ill not advance to the next stage until a<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">response has been rec=
eived from each author and contributor.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">If you are on the LSR=
 WG email list but are not listed as an author or<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">contributor, then ple=
ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">any IPR that has not =
yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Acee<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_signature"></div></div>

--000000000000cbfeee05a6159515--


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From: LEI LIU <liulei@ieee.org>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 07:58:13 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Best regards,


Lei

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:40 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,</span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Best regards,=C2=A0</span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><br></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Lei</span></p></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, =
May 15, 2020 at 12:40 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40=
cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4523772018361380701WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week =
(due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Compu=
tation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to =
this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>,
 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" target=3D"_blank">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_signature"></div></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 11:14:39 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV2Y3kemTdHYBamZwAB+m5DefxqTC0shPan2cGHd9TARTg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Huaimo

This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
high bandwidth E-W traffic.

Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.

Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
same as this draft.  Please confirm.

There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.


https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html

We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.

Kind regards

Gyan


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynam=
ic
> Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data
> center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used =
by
> the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
> Gyan
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&sdata=3DyBEjECqdVgodm=
O5T3C%2FRQE21bFKOWX6lpJA0CMdJ18A%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewe=
i.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&sdata=3DhTQLnO1j3UqxcJP2hEs9DpYQiSOZpw00SF2LN=
rwgtKc%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b=
08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725467226=
7321230&sdata=3DmYvXS9UFr523Pxr9%2B3Il52dsAEPsTWglyYsCtUDUdo0%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000780b6105a615db96
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo=C2=A0</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature =
for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature d=
escription and it does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Ple=
ase confirm.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">There=
 maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature deploye=
d before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a h=
ref=3D"https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-900=
0-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/u=
s/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-7=
43015.html</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">We are te=
sting this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure that this is=
 the same as the draft on the standards track.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaim=
o Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hi Gy=
an,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:12pt;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
);color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quo=
t;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-=
serif;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(=
50,49,48)"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:=
12pt;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Best =
Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Huaim=
o</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Ca=
libri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> Lsr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan =
Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@iet=
f.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=
=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 =
PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>,
 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637254672267311232&amp;sdata=3DyBEjECqdVgodmO5T3C%2FRQE21bFKOWX6lpJA0=
CMdJ18A%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267311232&amp;sdata=3DhTQLnO1j3UqxcJP2hEs9D=
pYQiSOZpw00SF2LNrwgtKc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C67789a4ab2b84b08385508d7fbbf82c1%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637254672267321230&amp;sdata=3DmYvXS9UFr5=
23Pxr9%2B3Il52dsAEPsTWglyYsCtUDUdo0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"padding-b=
ottom:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img=
 width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;" src=3D"htt=
p://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br><a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring=
,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:blac=
k"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
 face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:georgia,=
serif">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pik=
e+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD<=
/a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000780b6105a615db96--


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References: <28938a998b384038b6dd513db00072cf@nokia-sbell.com> <48FED425-3613-42BD-9892-4CD6786EF1BB@gmail.com> <c142498d599848878eda62eae76ea3e9@nokia-sbell.com> <CABNhwV3qDts57XyD4B4bzwD=m9we2m+M9HJ++S8f=-=Lh6+pXQ@mail.gmail.com> <17654e27-0efa-bcff-67ba-01541ebc350d@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2-fH07f5iOedVgkP0-d7g=rgrVR7zV84w4VtQ+6ujzTA@mail.gmail.com> <b08f0f8e-2e0c-a259-3e92-c959bc4c3dfd@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <b08f0f8e-2e0c-a259-3e92-c959bc4c3dfd@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 11:44:16 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV04OQoufunZC_51vjtPiDcb+5M72ZvNMsRsXHSk_WAfuw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>,  "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VxeUbsprbOXvq26THJoyi_wtBCQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
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On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 4:16 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

> On 20/05/2020 00:37, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com
> > <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Gyan,
> >
> >     On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> >      >
> >      > Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context of SR-TE to help
> >     reduced
> >      > SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SRV6 and SR-MPLS,
> >
> >     though segment list reduction may be seen as one of the benefits of
> the
> >     flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivation behind it. Th=
e
> >     primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynamic any to any
> >     constrained based routing.
> >
> >      > however can
> >      > the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=99s an IGP extensi=
on used
> >     in any
> >      > pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-MPLS or SRv6.
> >
> >     SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can be used, if it
> >     provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.
> >
> >
> >      Gyan> Please clarify.  I would think that since the flex algo
> > capability is part of the IGP independent of the data plane is what you
> > are saying, so any data plane can use the feature.
>
> not really. You need to have a way to forward traffic for different
> algos over different paths.


   Gyan> That is what I was expecting. So the flex algo draft talks in the
context of SR-MPLS and SRV6 as those are the two data planes currently
supported.  Any other data planes would require development of a
specification to use flex algo, but more so an industry business need or
gap that is being filled with the development.  SRv6 has more ubiquitous
use cases then SR-MPLS, so both together cover most every use case
requiring steering.  So then is their a need to steer with native IPV4 or
IPV6.

>
>
> >
> > So you are saying even if it can that their maybe a data plane specific
> > algo awareness to be able to use or route the algo specific traffic.  S=
o
> > for example can native IPv4 or IPv6 date plane can it without any
> > specific algo awareness can it utilitize flex algo constraint based
> > steering.
>
> if you have IP prefix P1 and you want to be able to send the traffic to
> it via 3 different paths via native IPv4 network how would you do that?
>
> > Also others mentioned is their special hooks or programming
> > required to make it work with RSVP-TE or PPR.
> >
>
> I let RSVP experts to find a way how to use the flex-algo paths. I'm
> sure there are ways to do so :)
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> >      >
> >      > Also can flex algo be used in conjunction with RSVP-TE or
> >     PPR(preferred
> >      > path routing).
> >
> >     same answer as above.
> >
> >     thanks,
> >     Peter
> >
> >      >
> >      > Kind regards
> >      >
> >      > Gyan
> >      >
> >      > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >      > <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com=
>
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      >     Jeff, I see what you said, thank you for sharing
> information;____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     Cheers!
> >      >
> >      >     ____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     Wang Weibin____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     *From:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> >      >     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> >     <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>>>
> >      >     *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8810=E6=97=A5 3:24
> >      >     *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >     <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
> >      >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>>
> >      >     *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>
> >      >     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>>;
> >     lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:lsr@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
> >      >     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     Weibin,____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     One could have an algo with MSD/ERLD as optimizations
> constrains,
> >      >     would be quite similar to colored links. Note - ERLD has
> >     implemented
> >      >     node capabilities only, so all links on a node will have to =
be
> >      >     pruned.____
> >      >
> >      >     The tradeoffs are - having centralized controller with globa=
l
> >     view
> >      >     computing a path that meets the constraints(classical BGP-LS
> >     + PCEP
> >      >     scenario) vs building a dynamic topology of connected nodes
> that
> >      >     meet a set of constrains, in first case, change in
> >      >     topology/capabilities would cause path
> >     recalculation/reoptimization
> >      >     on the PCE while in the second - IGP would recompute the
> topology
> >      >     locally.____
> >      >
> >      >     __ __
> >      >
> >      >     Regards,____
> >      >
> >      >     Jeff____
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >     ____
> >      >
> >      >         On May 9, 2020, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shangha=
i)
> >      >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
> >      >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>> wrote:____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Ketan, thank you for clarification.____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Cheers!____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Wang Weibin____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>
> >      >         <mailto:ketant@cisco.com <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>>
> >      >         *Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 14:52
> >      >         *To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >      >         <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>
> >      >         <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com
> >     <mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>>>; lsr@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> >      >         <mailto:lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf..org>>
> >      >         *Subject:* RE: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Hi Wang,____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         You are correct. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goa=
l but
> >     rather a
> >      >         benefit/advantage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS wher=
e the
> label
> >      >         stack can be reduced.____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Thanks,____
> >      >
> >      >         Ketan____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>>
> >      >         *On Behalf Of *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
> >      >         *Sent:* 08 May 2020 19:07
> >      >         *To:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
> >      >         *Subject:* [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         Hi authors:____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         After reading through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want t=
o
> >     know
> >      >         whether there is a potential goal of this draft to reduc=
e
> the
> >      >         SRH size with enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv=
6
> >      >         deployment, because without flex-algo we have to have a
> >     big SRH
> >      >         size when the SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable
> >     flex-algo
> >      >         under special topology and link constraint condition, in
> >     theory
> >      >         we can even construct  a end to end SR path/tunnel
> >     without SRH,
> >      >         but it still meet TE requirement. So my question is
> >     whether the
> >      >         flex-algo can be used as tool to reduce SRH size?____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         ____
> >      >
> >      >         /Cheers !/____
> >      >
> >      >         **____
> >      >
> >      >         *WANG Weibin*____
> >      >
> >      >         _______________________________________________
> >      >         Lsr mailing list
> >      > Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>>
> >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr____
> >      >
> >      >     _______________________________________________
> >      >     Lsr mailing list
> >      > Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>>
> >      > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >      >
> >      > --
> >      >
> >      > Gyan  Mishra
> >      >
> >      > Network Engineering & Technology
> >      >
> >      > Verizon
> >      >
> >      > Silver Spring, MD 20904
> >      >
> >      > Phone: 301 502-1347
> >      >
> >      > Email: gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com
> >     <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.co=
m
> >     <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>>
> >      >
> >      >
> >      >
> >
> > --
> >
> > <http://www.verizon.com/>
> >
> > *Gyan Mishra*
> >
> > /Network Solutions A//rchitect /
> >
> > /M 301 502-1347
> > 13101 Columbia Pike
> > /Silver Spring, MD
> >
> >
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 4:16 AM Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">On 20/05/2020 00:37, Gyan Mishra wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 3:38 AM Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pps=
enak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppse=
nak@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 19/05/2020 03:52, Gyan Mishra wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Flex algo is usually mentioned in the context=
 of SR-TE to help<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reduced<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; SRH size to circumvent MSD issues for both SR=
V6 and SR-MPLS,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0though segment list reduction may be seen as one of=
 the benefits of the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0flex-algo, it is certainly not the primary motivati=
on behind it. The<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary motivation of flex-algo is to provide dynam=
ic any to any<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0constrained based routing.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; however can<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; the 0-127 flex algo extensions since it=E2=80=
=99s an IGP extension used<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in any<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; pure IP network independent of SR flavors SR-=
MPLS or SRv6.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SR/SRv6 is used as a dataplane. Any data plane can =
be used, if it<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0provides a way to route an algo specific traffic.<b=
r>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Please clarify.=C2=A0 I would think that =
since the flex algo <br>
&gt; capability is part of the IGP independent of the data plane is what yo=
u <br>
&gt; are saying, so any data plane can use the feature.<br>
<br>
not really. You need to have a way to forward traffic for different <br>
algos over different paths.</blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; That is what I was expecting. So the flex =
algo draft talks in the context of SR-MPLS and SRV6 as those are the two da=
ta planes currently supported.=C2=A0 Any other data planes would require de=
velopment of a specification to use flex algo, but more so an industry busi=
ness need or gap that is being filled with the development.=C2=A0 SRv6 has =
more ubiquitous use cases then SR-MPLS, so both together cover most every u=
se case requiring steering.=C2=A0 So then is their a need to steer with nat=
ive IPV4 or IPV6. =C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; So you are saying even if it can that their maybe a data plane specifi=
c <br>
&gt; algo awareness to be able to use or route the algo specific traffic.=
=C2=A0 So <br>
&gt; for example can native IPv4 or IPv6 date plane can it without any <br>
&gt; specific algo awareness can it utilitize flex algo constraint based <b=
r>
&gt; steering.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
if you have IP prefix P1 and you want to be able to send the traffic to <br=
>
it via 3 different paths via native IPv4 network how would you do that?<br>
<br>
&gt; Also others mentioned is their special hooks or programming <br>
&gt; required to make it work with RSVP-TE or PPR.<br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
I let RSVP experts to find a way how to use the flex-algo paths. I&#39;m <b=
r>
sure there are ways to do so :)<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Also can flex algo be used in conjunction wit=
h RSVP-TE or<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PPR(preferred<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; path routing).<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same answer as above.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0thanks,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Peter<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Kind regards<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Gyan<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:25 PM Wang, Weibin (=
NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell=
.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia=
-sbell.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:=
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff, I see what you said,=
 thank you for sharing information;____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers!<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Wang Weibin____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Jeff Tantsura &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@=
gmail.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a><b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 2020=E5=B9=B45=E6=
=9C=8810=E6=97=A5 3:24<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - =
CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" =
target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.c=
om</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ke=
tant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisc=
o.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;&=
gt;&gt;;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">l=
sr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft=
-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Weibin,____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One could have an algo wit=
h MSD/ERLD as optimizations constrains,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0would be quite similar to =
colored links. Note - ERLD has<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0implemented<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0node capabilities only, so=
 all links on a node will have to be<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pruned.____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The tradeoffs are - having=
 centralized controller with global<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0view<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0computing a path that meet=
s the constraints(classical BGP-LS<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ PCEP<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0scenario) vs building a dy=
namic topology of connected nodes that<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0meet a set of constrains, =
in first case, change in<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0topology/capabilities woul=
d cause path<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0recalculation/reoptimization<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on the PCE while in the se=
cond - IGP would recompute the topology<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0locally.____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jeff____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On May 9, 20=
20, at 01:27, Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia=
-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang=
@nokia-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:=
____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ketan, thank=
 you for clarification.____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers!____<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Wang Weibin_=
___<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Keta=
n Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">ketant@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a> &=
lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 2020=
=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 14:52<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* Wang, =
Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia=
-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang=
@nokia-sbell.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weibin.wang@nokia-sbel=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf." target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.</a>.org&gt;&gt;<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* R=
E: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Wang,____=
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You are corr=
ect. Though I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a goal but<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rather a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0benefit/adva=
ntage =E2=80=93 same applies to SR-MPLS where the label<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0stack can be=
 reduced.____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,____<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ketan____<br=
>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*From:* Lsr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*On Behalf O=
f *Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Sent:* 08 M=
ay 2020 19:07<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*To:* <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*Subject:* [=
Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi authors:_=
___<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0After readin=
g through this draft lsr-flex-algo, I want to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0know<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether ther=
e is a potential goal of this draft to reduce the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SRH size wit=
h enabling flex-algo with admin group in SRv6<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deployment, =
because without flex-algo we have to have a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0big SRH<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0size when th=
e SRH include more SRv6 SIDs, if we enable<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0flex-algo<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0under specia=
l topology and link constraint condition, in<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0theory<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0we can even =
construct =C2=A0a end to end SR path/tunnel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0without SRH,<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but it still=
 meet TE requirement. So my question is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0whether the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0flex-algo ca=
n be used as tool to reduce SRH size?____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/Cheers !/__=
__<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0**____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*WANG Weibin=
*____<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0____________=
___________________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing =
list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">Lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/lsr____" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr____</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__________________________=
_____________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">Lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/=
listinfo/lsr</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; --<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Gyan=C2=A0 Mishra<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Network Engineering &amp; Technology<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Verizon<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Silver Spring, MD 20904<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Phone: 301 502-1347<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Email: <a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizo=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.=
com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@veriz=
on.com</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.=
com" target=3D"_blank">gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://www.verizon.com/</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; *Gyan Mishra*<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; /Network Solutions A//rchitect /<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; /M 301 502-1347<br>
&gt; 13101 Columbia Pike<br>
&gt; /Silver Spring, MD<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,


> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for =
densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.

Thank you.

> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly =
the same as this draft.  Please confirm.=20


It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and unpublished =
algorithm. =20

This will give us three different implementations, using three different =
algorithms, none of which will inter-operate.  Whee!!! :-(


> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the =
feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the =
IETF.


Our implementation shipped last year.


> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to =
ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.


It does not appear to be, but someone from Cisco should confirm.

Tony


--Apple-Mail=_F89A3C54-A41C-4D94-BC51-AF5068239D60
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Gyan,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">This is a much needed feature that operators have been =
needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data =
centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W =
traffic.</div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>Thank =
you.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D"">Please look at the feature description and it does =
seem to be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please =
confirm.&nbsp;</div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div>It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and =
unpublished algorithm. &nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>This =
will give us three different implementations, using three different =
algorithms, none of which will inter-operate. &nbsp;Whee!!! =
:-(</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">There maybe other vendors due to =
industry demand have to get the feature deployed before it reaches =
standards vendor consensus with the IETF.</div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Our implementation =
shipped last year.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">We are testing this =
feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure that this is the =
same as the draft on the standards =
track.</div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It does not appear to =
be, but someone from Cisco should confirm.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tony</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_F89A3C54-A41C-4D94-BC51-AF5068239D60--


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Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I wasn't clear on where the  thread ended up from the Gen-ART review, but I'm
nevertheless suggesting some text below to resolve the main sticking point.

OLD
If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD advertise the
ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.

NEW
If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD advertise the
ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. The absence of these
advertisements implies that advertisement of the ELC is not supported.

Not sure if that matches the intent though.




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Reviewer: Kyle Rose
Review result: Ready with Nits

This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's
ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written
primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's
authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF
discussion list for information.

When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this
review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC
tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review.

This document describes a mechanism for specifying per-application attributes
for link state routing using IS-IS. It proposes no routing functionality
changes to applications making use of such attributes, only enabling the
ability to choose which attributes in an advertisement apply to a particular
application, and consequently I see no specifically transport-related issues in
this draft.

Nonetheless, I have a few comments.

* Update language?

There are several places in which it is possible that normative language in
prior RFCs is revised. For example, in section 6.1, the last paragraph states:

  New applications which future documents define to make use of the
  advertisements defined in this document MUST NOT make use of legacy
  advertisements.

This looks like it was written in such a way as to avoid requiring such
updates, but it would be good to confirm that there is no normative language in
older documents that would conflict with this requirement.

* Encoding

In section 4.1, the bit masks are defined with a 7 bit length field for which
only 4 bits are useful (values 0-8). It may make sense to keep the 3 high order
bits as "reserved" and set to zero, but either way it would be nice to
understand the justification for whatever design decision is made.

You go to some length to save space (e.g., a zero-length SABM means "all
applications") but always include an octet for UDABM length, which I presume
will be zero outside the lab in most cases. How much does an extra octet cost?
If it's a lot, you could use the three high-order bits to represent the first
three applications (RSVP-TE, SRTE, and LFA) and save yourself an octet until a
fourth application appears.

For that matter, how likely are you to get to 256 standardized applications
under IS-IS?

The fallback from application-specific advertisements to legacy advertisements
is not entirely clear. It sounds like:

 - An application is to use the legacy advertisements if there is at least one
 application specific advertisement for that application with L=1, in which
 case *all* advertisements for that application must also have L=1. - An
 application is to use the application-specific advertisements if there is at
 least one application specific advertisement for that application with L=0, in
 which case *all* advertisements for that application must also have L=0, *and*
 that application is to ignore all legacy advertisements.

In effect, use of legacy advertisements vs. app-specific advertisements is
all-or-nothing. If that's the case, wouldn't a top-level TLV specifying a
legacy mask for applications be more compact, less redundant, and further
reduce the overall number/size of advertisements?

Anyway, I'm out of my element, so feel free to ignore these comments if I'm way
off the mark.



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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <l=
sr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Huaimo

This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.
[HC]: Thank you very much.

Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.

Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.
[HC]: It seems different.

There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7=
fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949669307&sd=
ata=3D9nLFlmBSFxBQayL0fCiq864Ylvzyksk3U0GmZPbhPts%3D&reserved=3D0>

We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Grap=
hs", which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm.

Kind regards

Gyan


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thank you very much for your questions and support.

    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.

Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.

This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.

Gyan

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949679298&sdata=3D08cwC5X8u06cotUPxaWyOq3eu=
YKGK9Pfh0pieb7Tqf0%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
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8b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949679298&sdata=
=3DtyTKAAIC3DyLtli74eDEYNscLfuULnvGwGUu25BeuBA%3D&reserved=3D0>
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%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949689289&sdata=3DPP=
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fqWeyBBLf7wUCsV4%3D&reserved=3D0>

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%25=
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01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949699284&sdata=3DeZ%2BBnU12=
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%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949699284&sdata=3DeZ%2BBnU124L=
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%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949699284&sdata=3D%2=
FoV6iULRSggdYhbq%2FJosVJeUYYufjIKeQ3hTIjEzRfk%3D&reserved=3D0>

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD


--_000_MN2PR13MB3117E84C778B11D71FAF8135F2B70MN2PR13MB3117namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below w=
ith [HC].</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; ls=
r@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: Thank you very much.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for=
 dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature description and it does seem t=
o be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please confirm.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It seems different.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to =
get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with =
the IETF.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949669307&amp;sdata=3D9nLFlmBSF=
xBQayL0fCiq864Ylvzyksk3U0GmZPbhPts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-sw=
itches/white-paper-c11-743015.html" shash=3D"IQW3Z8okmM7y0Mh7Z&#43;ixryOSyb=
MD9WSG43In60lD7Vs&#43;DCsPBGr0cYo&#43;cXCMp66uVrfhF0sLChTRRbiqH3wrCiZk8Ju6i=
pQDbqwCHwtBx2jyLQORNt6ay/2gG8sjujqicMQlrKfAauZ8qCFaEEv23Sj&#43;u8uMTXO35ejV=
QIVhtvA=3D">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexu=
s-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wa=
nted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: <span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &=
quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-syste=
m, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; back=
ground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe=
 UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMa=
cSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-col=
or: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Hu=
aimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futu=
rewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Hi G=
yan,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-seri=
f; font-size:12pt; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55); color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"display:inlin=
e!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(50,49,48)"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; display:in=
line!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the&nbsp;d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Best=
 Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Huai=
mo</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"=
Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> =
Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.&nbsp; In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft.=
 Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on Ju=
ne 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637255844949679298&amp;sdata=3D08cwC5X8u06cotUPxaWyOq3euYKGK9Pfh0pieb=
7Tqf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"IBsD4B8m9z&#43;wXThruPdLR03aqSOf=
hHJfKx4Jt0d/T3gOGijSwU7o&#43;P6Fuqi15ptY4okldG&#43;mme1mEoCg9wWCwChtJnmSXY1=
11b342sBZreq8DoXxG5kPcHXXw&#43;caSGTxyg/s4fyyuHoTGmBMyIX0SAJvRNYg10A4A5fnYc=
b4&#43;Mo=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-l=
sr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
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</blockquote>
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ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em; font-family:georgia,serif; colo=
r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect&nbsp;</i></font=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
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pi5Jo5nWnEX/mN7czKLoMqkif&#43;0gv4nZIJgExEfjc8l4OQKya78DMCL0f/ahXoeeV2WpAx5=
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=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
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e&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" sh=
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 Spring, MD</a></p>
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<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
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nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
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13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>, "tsv-art@ietf.org" <tsv-art@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 06:28:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 09:51:13 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Alissa,

On 20/05/2020 21:57, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote:
> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I wasn't clear on where the  thread ended up from the Gen-ART review, but I'm
> nevertheless suggesting some text below to resolve the main sticking point.
> 
> OLD
> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD advertise the
> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
> 
> NEW
> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD advertise the
> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. The absence of these
> advertisements implies that advertisement of the ELC is not supported.

I added the suggested text, plus I added "OSPF" at the end. So the text is:

"If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD 
advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. 
The absence of these advertisements implies that advertisement of the 
ELC is not supported in OSPF."

I added similar text to ISIS ELC draft.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> Not sure if that matches the intent though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <1242ad52-bb48-8526-b65b-d413e0cd9e25@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:05:39 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Benjamin,

thanks for review, please see inline (##PP):

On 20/05/2020 00:44, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote:
> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: Discuss
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSPF
> document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
> they only appear for one document's review.
> 
> Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
> in Section 3:
> 
>     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>     MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> 
> The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
> the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
> implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
> requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
> document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
> implement this document?

##PP
this is a new requirement and only applies to the routers that support 
this document. We are not making normative requirements of devices that 
don't implement this document, we cannot.

Maybe we can add that it only applies to the routers that supports this 
extension:

"When a router supporting this extension propagates a prefix between 
ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix."

Would it work?


> 
> Likewise, the ASBR case for cross-protocol redistribution seems to
> rather inherently require understanding the semantics of the flags being
> translated.

similarly to the above I can chnage to:

"When a router supporting this extension redistribute a prefix ..."


> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Section 1
> 
> Should we add a sentence at the end of the last paragraph about how
> "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using IS-IS"?

not sure I understand, how is described in the body of the document.

> 
>     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> 
> side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
> privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
> talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
> surprising to me.

this document describes the ELC/ERLD capability signaling for SR MPLS. 
For non SR MPLS cases, thee are existing mechanisms to learn ELC/ERLD.

I can replace the text with:

"In cases where SR is used with the MPLS Data Plane"

Would it work?


> 
> Section 3
> 
>     unless all of its interfaces are capable of processing ELs.  If a
>     router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC
>     for every local host prefix it advertises in IS-IS.
> 
> Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
> prefixes?

Do we have to? I can add "MUST NOT set ELC with for any other prefix", 
but I find it unneeded.

> 
> Section 4
> 
> I agree with Roman's comment about code 2 vs TBD2.

that has been fixed already.

> 
>     ERLD in the range between 0 to 255.  The scope of the advertisement
>     depends on the application.  If a router has multiple interfaces with
> 
> Just to check: w.r.t. "scope", both this document and the OSPF one only
> define usage of this MSD type at the scope of a single node, right?  (I
> don't see a particular reason to preclude using it at a different
> scope.)

the scope here means where the information will be flooded - area only 
or network wide. No such thing as a node scope.


> 
> Section 6
> 
>        - Bit 3 in the Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV
>        registry has been assigned to the ELC Flag.  IANA is asked to
> 
> Is there an "IS-IS" in the name of this registry?

no the registry name is "Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV".


> 
> Section 7
> 
> Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
> information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
> to external parties?

why would this be "internal information" and why redistribution would be 
"external party"? Redistribution between IGPs is predominantly done 
between IGPs under same administrative domain.


> 
>     This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
>     capabilities using IS-IS and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
>     considerations as described in [RFC7981], [RFC7752], [RFC7794],
>     [RFC8491], [RFC8662], [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
> 
> RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
> 6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
> directly in this list as well.

would not that be implicit when mentioning RFC 8662?


> 
>     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
>     document.
> 
> Could we also have a brief note that the normal IS-IS authentication
> mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?

do we need to repeat this every time we add a bit in the TLV?

> 
>     Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
>     redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
>     node.
> 
> This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
> erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
> flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
> occur)?

yes, there is a text there already:

"Incorrectly setting of the ERLD value may lead to poor or no 
load-balancing of the traffic."

> 
> Section 8
> 
> I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
> you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
> consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
> co-authors?

I'm not fun of this 5 authors rule to be honest.

> 
> Section 10.1
> 
> Should we reference RFC 7981 from Section 4 as well?  Right now we seem
> to only use it for the security considerations, which is not necessarily
> enough to qualify it as a normative reference.

we reference RFC8491, which references RFC 7981. I don't see a need to 
reference RFC 7981 directly.

thanks,
Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:16:44 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Benjamin,

thanks for review.

Please see inline (##PP) two responses to OSPF specific comments.


On 20/05/2020 00:43, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote:
> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: Discuss
> 
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
> 
> 
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> 
> 
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I have a question about the scope of some normative language, which may
> or may not be problematic but I'm too ignorant of OSPF details to be
> able to answer myself.  In Section 3 we say that:
> 
>     When an OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>     connected areas it MUST preserve the ELC setting.
> 
> My undesrtanding is that it's normal operation for an ABR to
> distribution information about prefixes and such between areas, and in
> particular that an ABR does not necessarily need to know the semantic
> details of every bit of information being distributed in that fashion.
> So, I am imagining a scenario where some routers in both areas
> advertise/understand the ELC flag but the ABR between them does not
> implement this spec.  What would happen in such a scenario?  If the ABR
> is still expected to distribute the ELC setting without change, isn't
> that just a core requirement from the respective OSPF specs, as opposed
> to a new requirement imposed by this spec (which, in this scenario, the
> ABR is not claiming to adhere to anyway)?
> 
> There is perhaps a similar question about the ASBR guidance, though when
> doing cross-protocol signalling there is a more clear need for the ASBR
> to understand the semantics of the flags it is redistributing (and it's
> only a "SHOULD").
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Section 1
> 
> The abstract is pretty explicit that "this draft defines" both ELC and
> ERLD signaling capabilities, but this section only has a clear statement
> for the ELC.  Should we put something at the end of the last paragraph
> about "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using OSPFv2
> and OSPFv3"?

##PP
this has been already addressed based on previous comments. Latest text 
is as follows:

"Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to 
load-balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL). An ingress Label
Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a given 
Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated via 
signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to as the 
Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP. In addition, it would be 
useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability for reading the 
maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-balancing, 
referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD). This document 
defines a mechanism to signal these two capabilities using OSPFv2 and 
OSPFv3 and BGP-LS."
> 
>     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> 
> side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
> privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
> talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
> surprising to me.
> 
> Section 3
> 
>     If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD
>     advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
> 
> Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
> prefixes?
> 
> Section 7
> 
> Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
> information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
> to external parties?
> 
>     This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
>     capabilities using OSPF and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
>     considerations as described in [RFC5340], [RFC7770], [RFC7752],
>     [RFC7684], [RFC8476], [RFC8662],
> 
> RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
> 6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
> directly in this list as well.
> 
>     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
>     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
>     document.
> 
> Could we also have a brief note that the (respective) OSPF security
> mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?
> 
>     Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
>     redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
>     node.
> 
> This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
> erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
> flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
> occur)?
> 
> Section 8
> 
> I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
> you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
> consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
> co-authors?
> 
> Section 10.2
> 
> It's slightly surprising to see the core OSPF protocols only listed as
> informative, but I can see how they are to be considered "basic
> specifications" in the vein of
> https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/normative-informative-references/

##PP
right, I can add it as normative, or remove completely, or keep as 
informative. Whatever you like :)

thanks,
Peter


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On May 21, 2020 at 6:05:41 AM, Peter Psenak wrote:


Peter:

Hi!


> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSP=
F
> > document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
> > they only appear for one document's review.
> >
> > Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
> > in Section 3:
> >
> > When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
> > MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> >
> > The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
> > the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
> > implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
> > requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
> > document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
> > implement this document?
>
> ##PP
> this is a new requirement and only applies to the routers that support
> this document. We are not making normative requirements of devices that
> don't implement this document, we cannot.
>
> Maybe we can add that it only applies to the routers that supports this
> extension:
>
> "When a router supporting this extension propagates a prefix between
> ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefi=
x."
>
> Would it work?


You're right, we can only apply requirements to routers that support
this specification. =C2=A0IOW, adding the clarification is not necessary.


My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:

(1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
different level? =C2=A0The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? =C2=A0If so, then
the requirement (MUST) is not needed. =C2=A0My reading of rfc7794 is that
the propagation is optional...

(2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
scenarios? =C2=A0IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
the L1L2 support this specification?


Thanks!

Alvaro.


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Alvaro,

On 21/05/2020 13:44, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> On May 21, 2020 at 6:05:41 AM, Peter Psenak wrote:
> 
> 
> Peter:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> DISCUSS:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSPF
>>> document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
>>> they only appear for one document's review.
>>>
>>> Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
>>> in Section 3:
>>>
>>> When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>>> MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
>>>
>>> The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
>>> the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
>>> implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
>>> requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
>>> document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
>>> implement this document?
>>
>> ##PP
>> this is a new requirement and only applies to the routers that support
>> this document. We are not making normative requirements of devices that
>> don't implement this document, we cannot.
>>
>> Maybe we can add that it only applies to the routers that supports this
>> extension:
>>
>> "When a router supporting this extension propagates a prefix between
>> ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix."
>>
>> Would it work?
> 
> 
> You're right, we can only apply requirements to routers that support
> this specification.  IOW, adding the clarification is not necessary.
> 
> 
> My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
> 
> (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
> different level?  The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
> attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels?  If so, then
> the requirement (MUST) is not needed.  My reading of rfc7794 is that
> the propagation is optional...

depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not. 
That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.

> 
> (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
> support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
> scenarios?  IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
> the L1L2 support this specification?

drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security 
Considerations section.

thanks,
Peter


> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> 


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From: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 09:08:30 -0400
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "tsv-art@ietf.org" <tsv-art@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:28 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
wrote:

> > * Update language?
> >
> > There are several places in which it is possible that normative language
> in
> > prior RFCs is revised. For example, in section 6.1, the last paragraph
> states:
> >
> >   New applications which future documents define to make use of the
> >   advertisements defined in this document MUST NOT make use of legacy
> >   advertisements.
> >
> > This looks like it was written in such a way as to avoid requiring such
> > updates, but it would be good to confirm that there is no normative
> language
> > in
> > older documents that would conflict with this requirement.
> >
> [Les:] For applications which preexisted the writing of this draft (the
> ones defined in Section 7.4) there are existing deployments which use
> legacy advertisements.
> Transitioning to use new advertisements has to account for partial
> deployment of such support.
> And the transition has to be managed by the network operator using knobs
> provided by implementations. This is onerous - but unavoidable in these
> cases.
>
> For new applications we want to avoid this complexity/pain. So we specify
> new applications MUST use the new advertisements from day ONE.
>
> As these are new applications there is no legacy to deal with and no
> existing specification which would be in conflict.
>

That's what I figured. Is it the case that new standardized applications
require an RFC? If so, I think this is fine.


> > * Encoding
> >
> > In section 4.1, the bit masks are defined with a 7 bit length field for
> which
> > only 4 bits are useful (values 0-8). It may make sense to keep the 3
> high order
> > bits as "reserved" and set to zero, but either way it would be nice to
> > understand the justification for whatever design decision is made.
> >
> > You go to some length to save space (e.g., a zero-length SABM means "all
> > applications") but always include an octet for UDABM length, which I
> > presume
> > will be zero outside the lab in most cases. How much does an extra octet
> > cost?
> > If it's a lot, you could use the three high-order bits to represent the
> first
> > three applications (RSVP-TE, SRTE, and LFA) and save yourself an octet
> until a
> > fourth application appears.
> >
> > For that matter, how likely are you to get to 256 standardized
> applications
> > under IS-IS?
> >
> [Les:] The limitation for the xABM length to be no more than 8 bytes was
> introduced only recently based on a review comment.
> The concern was that without a limit, it would be theoretically possible
> for the ABM itself to consume the full sub-TLV space, leaving no room for
> the actual link attribute advertisements.
> So we placed a maximum length to avoid this potential issue.
> As each application consumes one bit, with an 8 byte maximum length we can
> support 64 applications.
>
Sigh... yes, math is hard.


> This seems more than we will ever get to - but if anyone in the WG thinks
> this is not large enough they should speak now so we can increase the
> maximum.
>

I suspect even 64 is safely more than you'll need, but if not there's
always the possibility of a new TLV later on. :-)


> There are existing implementations of this draft which have been deployed.
> Changing the bit positions as you suggested would not be backwards
> compatible.
> I do not think the small space savings would be worth the trouble.
>

Understood, though I will point out that this illustrates the potential
harm in deploying something hard to change prior to standardization.
Thankfully, IS-IS is not interdomain, meaning that any such change would
impose costs only on those who deployed early.

> > In effect, use of legacy advertisements vs. app-specific advertisements
> is
> > all-or-nothing. If that's the case, wouldn't a top-level TLV specifying a
> > legacy mask for applications be more compact, less redundant, and further
> > reduce the overall number/size of advertisements?
> >
> [Les:] The information being advertised here (link attributes) is
> necessarily associated with a top level TLV describing a link to a neighbor
> (TLVs 22, 23, 25, 141, 222, and 223) . Without that context the link
> attribute information is meaningless.
>

Yes, this makes sense, and probably would have been obvious were I more
familiar with IS-IS and link state routing in general.
Thanks,
Kyle

--0000000000002c093f05a6283661
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:28 AM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; * Update language?<br=
>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There are several places in which it is possible that normative langua=
ge in<br>
&gt; prior RFCs is revised. For example, in section 6.1, the last paragraph=
 states:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0New applications which future documents define to make use=
 of the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertisements defined in this document MUST NOT make use =
of legacy<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertisements.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; This looks like it was written in such a way as to avoid requiring suc=
h<br>
&gt; updates, but it would be good to confirm that there is no normative la=
nguage<br>
&gt; in<br>
&gt; older documents that would conflict with this requirement.<br>
&gt; <br>
[Les:] For applications which preexisted the writing of this draft (the one=
s defined in Section 7.4) there are existing deployments which use legacy a=
dvertisements.<br>
Transitioning to use new advertisements has to account for partial deployme=
nt of such support.<br>
And the transition has to be managed by the network operator using knobs pr=
ovided by implementations. This is onerous - but unavoidable in these cases=
.<br>
<br>
For new applications we want to avoid this complexity/pain. So we specify n=
ew applications MUST use the new advertisements from day ONE.<br>
<br>
As these are new applications there is no legacy to deal with and no existi=
ng specification which would be in conflict.<br></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">That&#39;s wha=
t I figured. Is it the case that new standardized applications require an R=
FC? If so, I think this is fine.<br></div></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; * Encoding<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In section 4.1, the bit masks are defined with a 7 bit length field fo=
r which<br>
&gt; only 4 bits are useful (values 0-8). It may make sense to keep the 3 h=
igh order<br>
&gt; bits as &quot;reserved&quot; and set to zero, but either way it would =
be nice to<br>
&gt; understand the justification for whatever design decision is made.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; You go to some length to save space (e.g., a zero-length SABM means &q=
uot;all<br>
&gt; applications&quot;) but always include an octet for UDABM length, whic=
h I<br>
&gt; presume<br>
&gt; will be zero outside the lab in most cases. How much does an extra oct=
et<br>
&gt; cost?<br>
&gt; If it&#39;s a lot, you could use the three high-order bits to represen=
t the first<br>
&gt; three applications (RSVP-TE, SRTE, and LFA) and save yourself an octet=
 until a<br>
&gt; fourth application appears.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; For that matter, how likely are you to get to 256 standardized applica=
tions<br>
&gt; under IS-IS?<br>
&gt;<br>
[Les:] The limitation for the xABM length to be no more than 8 bytes was in=
troduced only recently based on a review comment.<br>
The concern was that without a limit, it would be theoretically possible fo=
r the ABM itself to consume the full sub-TLV space, leaving no room for the=
 actual link attribute advertisements.<br>
So we placed a maximum length to avoid this potential issue.<br>
As each application consumes one bit, with an 8 byte maximum length we can =
support 64 applications.<br></blockquote><div><span class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-size:small"></span></div><div><span class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-size:small">Sigh... yes, math is hard.<br></span></div><div><=
span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"></span>=C2=A0</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
This seems more than we will ever get to - but if anyone in the WG thinks t=
his is not large enough they should speak now so we can increase the maximu=
m.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=
=3D"gmail_default">I suspect even 64 is safely more than you&#39;ll need, b=
ut if not there&#39;s always the possibility of a new TLV later on. :-)<br>=
</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">
There are existing implementations of this draft which have been deployed. =
Changing the bit positions as you suggested would not be backwards compatib=
le.<br>
I do not think the small space savings would be worth the trouble.<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t">Understood, though I will point out that this illustrates the potential =
harm in deploying something hard to change prior to standardization. Thankf=
ully, IS-IS is not interdomain, meaning that any such change would impose c=
osts only on those who deployed early.<br></div><div style=3D"font-size:sma=
ll" class=3D"gmail_default"></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
&gt; In effect, use of legacy advertisements vs. app-specific advertisement=
s is<br>
&gt; all-or-nothing. If that&#39;s the case, wouldn&#39;t a top-level TLV s=
pecifying a<br>
&gt; legacy mask for applications be more compact, less redundant, and furt=
her<br>
&gt; reduce the overall number/size of advertisements?<br>
&gt; <br>
[Les:] The information being advertised here (link attributes) is necessari=
ly associated with a top level TLV describing a link to a neighbor (TLVs 22=
, 23, 25, 141, 222, and 223) . Without that context the link attribute info=
rmation is meaningless.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"f=
ont-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">Yes, this makes sense, and probably=
 would have been obvious were I more familiar with IS-IS and link state rou=
ting in general.<br></div></div><div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=
=3D"gmail_default"></div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult">Thanks,</div><div style=3D"font-size:small" class=3D"gmail_default">Ky=
le</div></div><br></div></div>

--0000000000002c093f05a6283661--


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From: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
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Cc: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)
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Thanks!
Alissa

> On May 21, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alissa,
>=20
> On 20/05/2020 21:57, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote:
>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut =
this
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>> Please refer to =
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I wasn't clear on where the  thread ended up from the Gen-ART review, =
but I'm
>> nevertheless suggesting some text below to resolve the main sticking =
point.
>> OLD
>> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD =
advertise the
>> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
>> NEW
>> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD =
advertise the
>> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. The absence =
of these
>> advertisements implies that advertisement of the ELC is not =
supported.
>=20
> I added the suggested text, plus I added "OSPF" at the end. So the =
text is:
>=20
> "If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD =
advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. =
The absence of these advertisements implies that advertisement of the =
ELC is not supported in OSPF."
>=20
> I added similar text to ISIS ELC draft.
>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>> Not sure if that matches the intent though.


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Thanks!<div class=3D"">Alissa<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On May =
21, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Peter Psenak &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Hi Alissa,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">On 20/05/2020 21:57, Alissa =
Cooper via Datatracker wrote:</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Alissa Cooper has entered the =
following ballot position for<br class=3D"">draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: =
No Objection<br class=3D"">When responding, please keep the subject line =
intact and reply to all<br class=3D"">email addresses included in the To =
and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br class=3D"">introductory =
paragraph, however.)<br class=3D"">Please refer to <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><b=
r class=3D"">for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT =
positions.<br class=3D"">The document, along with other ballot =
positions, can be found here:<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/</a><=
br =
class=3D"">---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br class=3D"">COMMENT:<br =
class=3D"">---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br class=3D"">I wasn't clear on where the &nbsp;thread ended up =
from the Gen-ART review, but I'm<br class=3D"">nevertheless suggesting =
some text below to resolve the main sticking point.<br class=3D"">OLD<br =
class=3D"">If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it =
SHOULD advertise the<br class=3D"">ELC with every local host prefix it =
advertises in OSPF.<br class=3D"">NEW<br class=3D"">If the router =
supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD advertise the<br =
class=3D"">ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. The =
absence of these<br class=3D"">advertisements implies that advertisement =
of the ELC is not supported.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I added the suggested text, plus =
I added "OSPF" at the end. So the text is:</span><br style=3D"caret-color:=
 rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">"If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it =
SHOULD advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in =
OSPF. The absence of these advertisements implies that advertisement of =
the ELC is not supported in OSPF."</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">I added similar text to ISIS ELC draft.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Peter</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Not =
sure if that matches the intent =
though.</blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Xufeng Liu <xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 09:46:51 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Support as a co-author.
Thanks,
- Xufeng

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 3:40 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support as a co-author=
.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,</span></div><div>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt">- Xufeng<br></span></div></div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 15, 202=
0 at 3:40 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-5698184734927547888WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week =
(due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Compu=
tation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to =
this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>,
 2020. Here is a URL for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" target=3D"_blank">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:36:58 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV1W3EDJpqUjLGj3-E-8L1R=75oAgtHX==9qkfrvrZy2ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/rMUvadl8cSiuVlkDBTiqtuJx-zg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
> Huaimo
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949669307&sdata=3D9nLFlmBSFxBQayL0fCiq864Ylvzyks=
k3U0GmZPbhPts%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm.
>

    Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having
two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to
me.


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/

>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynam=
ic
> Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data
> center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used =
by
> the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
> Gyan
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949679298&sdata=3D08cwC5X8u06co=
tUPxaWyOq3euYKGK9Pfh0pieb7Tqf0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewe=
i.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949679298&sdata=3DtyTKAAIC3DyLtli74eDEYNscLfuULnvGwGUu2=
5BeuBA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b=
9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725584494=
9689289&sdata=3DPPAEeVtUFf4l1J46AvbBRXWE6zymmTpZls6wSTCY5bI%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949689289&sdata=3D0lc7p9qzWy1VsJxX2ig1%2BHJWN=
HMfqWeyBBLf7wUCsV4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Gyan
> Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949699284&sdata=3DeZ%2BBnU124L7SGnc%2BQURZRhN=
mbMYvBMNTGG0to0%2BiuR8%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949699284&sdata=3DeZ%2BBnU124L7SGnc%2BQURZRhN=
mbMYvBMNTGG0to0%2BiuR8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b=
9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725584494=
9699284&sdata=3D%2FoV6iULRSggdYhbq%2FJosVJeUYYufjIKeQ3hTIjEzRfk%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below w=
ith [HC].</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_-2546997010845183490appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"C=
alibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b>=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=
=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: Thank you very much.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for=
 dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature description and it does seem t=
o be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to =
get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with =
the IETF.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949669307&amp;sdata=3D9nLFlmBSF=
xBQayL0fCiq864Ylvzyksk3U0GmZPbhPts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series=
-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wa=
nted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&qu=
ot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,Bl=
inkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
.=C2=A0</span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft comp=
are to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventua=
l standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for=
 optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features stand=
ardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for ope=
rators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;H=
elvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:in=
line!important"></span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quo=
t;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,Bli=
nkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
</div></div></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hi Gy=
an,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:12pt;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
);color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"display:inline!im=
portant;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49,48)"><span style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;display:inline!im=
portant;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Best =
Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Huaim=
o</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg" dir=
=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif">From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>&gt;
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" =
target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=
=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 =
PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637255844949679298&amp;sdata=3D08cwC5X8u06cotUPxaWyOq3euYKGK9Pfh0pieb=
7Tqf0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949679298&amp;sdata=3DtyTKAAIC3DyLtli74eDEY=
NscLfuULnvGwGUu25BeuBA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949689289&amp;sdata=3DPPAEeVtUFf=
4l1J46AvbBRXWE6zymmTpZls6wSTCY5bI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"padding-bot=
tom:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img w=
idth=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px" src=3D"http://ss=
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<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
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huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637255844949689289&amp;sdata=3D0lc7p9qzWy1=
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/a></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD=
?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gy=
an Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:blac=
k"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
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huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26%7C0fee8ff2a3=
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amily:georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
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B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Caf6069f07e9c4b9b881508d7fcd08b26=
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arget=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
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gb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><i=
mg width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px" src=3D"http:=
//ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+C=
olumbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=
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s A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
 face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0=
<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pik=
e+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD<=
/a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
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a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
CC: "tsv-art@ietf.org" <tsv-art@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Tsvart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/AIpCD4-q9ZxWXbvM5esP6HJvZRY>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions.

 Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction. =
 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  or c=
ompeting features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood red=
uction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature=
 be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGq=
YEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>

    [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two =
modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode).=
 The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding topo=
logy computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a =
flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <l=
sr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Huaimo

This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.
[HC]: Thank you very much.

Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.

Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.
[HC]: It seems different.

There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7=
fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sd=
ata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>

We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Grap=
hs", which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm.

    Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reductio=
n.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  o=
r competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood =
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feat=
ure be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGq=
YEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>

Kind regards

Gyan


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thank you very much for your questions and support.

    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.

Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.

This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.

Gyan

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0v=
At2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
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Network Solutions Architect

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Gyan Mishra

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

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<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin: 0px"><span>&nbsp;</span>Gyan&gt; How doe=
s this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Would th=
ey be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or compe=
ting features for optimized flood reduction. Would having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing t=
o me.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin: 0px">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-=
dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df=
274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6=
37256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" style=3D"margin: 0px">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(=
204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex">
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<div style=3D"margin: 0px">
<div style=3D"margin: 0px">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin: 0px">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin: 0px"><span style=3D"margin: 0px; backgro=
und-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"></span><span sty=
le=3D"margin: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !i=
mportant"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin: 0px"><br style=3D"color: rgb(50, 49, 48)=
; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quo=
t;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;=
Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can pr=
ovide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribu=
ted mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flo=
oding topology computation algorithm for the
 distributed mode. The former proposes a&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family: C=
alibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);=
 display: inline !important">flooding topology computation algorithm to be =
used in the distributed mode.&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; ls=
r@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Hu=
aimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futu=
rewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left=
:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below w=
ith [HC].</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-2546997010845183490appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D=
"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</=
b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: Thank you very much.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for=
 dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature description and it does seem t=
o be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please confirm.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It seems different.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to =
get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with =
the IETF.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451q=
kfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=
=3D"https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-s=
eries-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html" shash=3D"aVqVlAu3zDKWMu5Szd7Zu/=
yFMXY2O6fMHGXfNoW&#43;ZF6SKVLtG7QoxSx/bDCJGclzKHz2NSkGddDyolEQEbTsjnUMBjK3N=
Bu&#43;/a1hqSIpSJeaotK&#43;VoMITm0vFVxL66lIbnmCpaRcqsC1I3qutAv0V6x8c&#43;LK=
oRUe3ODZHr5dtmA=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/product=
s/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.htm=
l</a></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wa=
nted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255); d=
isplay:inline!important">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
.&nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the=
 WG LC draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Would they be two eventual standard=
 options in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or competing features for optimized=
 flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features
 standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing f=
or operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing to me.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd=
947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;=
sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" or=
iginalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng/" shash=3D"iIuBKRS/6cNc19bPilRPUXua8IohcNt&#43;&#43;tslrXHDwns2&#43;SnJW=
3&#43;rnBROpRU2ykibA3gLnXexLFQIVmMGi0b3&#43;uSglLTP2pE&#43;os1FIkqBrOzELiqF=
powMKtSgqU40lrODG5G1vsMvgvbAD8HuAOHB&#43;wVnU/1Hzl8guUoTfHBc8N8=3D">https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left=
:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display=
:inline!important"></span><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);=
 display:inline!important"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Hi G=
yan,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-seri=
f; font-size:12pt; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55); color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"display:inlin=
e!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(50,49,48)"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; display:in=
line!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the&nbsp;d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Best=
 Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Huai=
mo</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg" di=
r=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if">From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.&nbsp; In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft.=
 Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on Ju=
ne 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2B=
ghP7%2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"nFGq70jqU0WHdgrhFC/mFc02eVBO=
6F&#43;0TXPIeOp7egcmDLyUZ3gBozoYYzJM3Ip3r7MUFwSuhR2Y0wV9EPHy9Dz08h0CqiL/sNf=
gcsIQ5zVtswM4G1Dx2/7DnkwhZeLmiSgwCm&#43;8DefTPHy7rLXocZ8AsTwogRAlwfWXu4DSgu=
Y=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzN=
xb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" shash=3D"L8eAHIfz1AEmM56W20MxFMnlrh&#43;eB6juU=
mwecUfU5MOTOO1dsj/Hx9O9BnpBIYMMpoeEu5gmNGHNpzBZwul030ozjVmFmsMLpAmMQJLN5t1V=
20BO1rQLMt&#43;DLwkjQYR5nN/z9i4M8UxL3lFbUya8PcDhqK7f9qXglT/zLY0FfaU=3D" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=
</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327633988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCku=
MU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http:=
//www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"XC3pOvTijnaCWOoVBJZQqbu89sVRAUcsyjtSLX3e5ibwTP=
wrZXcB&#43;pf6jybphShfaSnLG4sG2Pln1OeHPO7ik9r429Cqpr8eqafnBxtwjcEZVuW&#43;U=
&#43;Yk/IBb39uL4FZ04wX0Im5KddzNXNLMWyxW7ku4yu3zaRJrIiPfaWxcCVE=3D" target=
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;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"QMi0aUN4W=
YqJSMh2ArgctQyJOMmQmXpdKvZKbwiF6ZakgSBxRSO7BjlNcln8a85d7aUjfzgD0JWbgXHddbJm=
23zlIQ57ek9f4f9GrhYyEOJ2e&#43;A4QhUBObXVeltYDesK1OkMhu36ygtc44joprZB1fFd/yq=
Ebb4A03kD2BnPQbk=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7f=
d947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327643983&amp=
;sdata=3Dma%2Bv7qm1pab2bjLQ5szL4wCjOCOc5WuYoFHmxd9BOy8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
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&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;=
source=3Dg" shash=3D"m74UZtxR6JB1F&#43;JKIMZfaqTfm4Kt1Dbev6DckT4fDYXVJXqo6I=
MaN2TbBiuScbaUNR63OSB6Lj2ZCfHVKCvH6J8UZnHJ4DDCiyzFr9v3kIR5HiXKHKvvd31XDgZ5b=
RprtO0hRHW0C9a1NRM&#43;Lc3O6R8qyGj&#43;MFsODGRjDHtBjm0=3D"></a><b style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan
 Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em; font-family:georgia,serif; colo=
r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect&nbsp;</i></font=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"F&#43;WlneS=
rP31G2YlhFTmLrFtQATiuO9vyrTpZ5f5gH6Lc&#43;/zPp2XOnjkWP68rL1N/UwFLcwyI1K9SPq=
13XHCDjckeB2WS4aiTyfD9up9rVmnSvMjOu&#43;GxGM/kbswTYZt04fSq/PytOLRqrvBWx&#43=
;DqQNmWuKCA&#43;8MsuO1m/TipPYI=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:g=
eorgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&amp;sdata=
=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
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ike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" =
shash=3D"k69/PrFdtUQkc75U5WoKNT8BwS981uJcQBq&#43;iWvVhSkfNdztt2vtlCDv5PiyJG=
iH6Dt62nXUmQU6aJlptilh2JMbLjudDcI0IMi7k/hwV/aiptJjoFC72OS37RVk5guMEEIeT8/iA=
3Myi1v9FuRbanOLtcX1kz7LDj4mhYOdPqg=3D" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
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3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327673971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1R=
U7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"htt=
p://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"w0Urx8L8apu2uHIMo1yLoGd6WLa64ilvSN9PyQsgYQgk=
YYSBR3&#43;o96/c/qZ8jV1OT7Oxa3qDkCvF&#43;a2DaQ&#43;VoGKIY4O9bSAi6SrPl0N7U8c=
QSOdYoC8Mv&#43;OL2Zs&#43;W9KH9JSxRD8w5cCzfNr7KMpQl6YmZs/A1awo8AGPaJvcN&#43;=
k=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204); padding-bottom:1em; =
display:inline-block"><img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;=
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il"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
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huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327673971&amp;sdata=3DYcMh3o%2F2a=
%2FNmVBFKcj4c8MsQn8GfQS41843hjMi3hrs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43=
;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"wu/7Z9Jn&=
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<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sb=
k84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https:=
//www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Sil=
ver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"B01vxDpmBT&#4=
3;cICHostuDkzEdkuw7rcrpHRhFX0xAcRSFyor9GwCTi8&#43;A1aUasBi3R5O8&#43;q969dLN=
TCfTZVbLKAItErFr3NZk8xiur&#43;zN9yqRZ3jjcc9QknMVqrTHRk0BrUqmWKCLpIeBB1l8aqt=
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=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&amp;sdata=
=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" origina=
lsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;=
%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D=
"zSwax7brNUwbzNUjLczQEZuyzkFxTymfdqP49F0OmLgj8GMmMqOLYriJoXRViTjwZNcHs/zBt0=
oBfmsL6ToqoJPLZywpCo&#43;Yg4VO5lDHLEyifIfxP40SA/IvVtOUAR&#43;Raf4xJ8YrcQWXe=
QcEzxd8tJFCYQe6PynD1NKAMQ72h4U=3D">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
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ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
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<img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; width:81px" src=3D"ht=
tp://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
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To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
Cc: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 18:55:13 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/1BxFDhdB23RAKjor-4EG2fr0NM8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with COMMENT)ret, .
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Alissa,

as Les correctly pointed out privately to me, this updated text is not 
entirely correct. Not advertising the ELC bit can be result of:

a) router not supporting this extension
b) router supporting this extension, but not supporting ELC

So I would rather keep the original text unchanged.

This is not anything new. This ambiguity is common for any new protocol 
extension that signals a boolean type of information.

thanks,
Peter


On 21/05/2020 15:09, Alissa Cooper wrote:
> Thanks!
> Alissa
> 
>> On May 21, 2020, at 3:51 AM, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com 
>> <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alissa,
>>
>> On 20/05/2020 21:57, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote:
>>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: No Objection
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> COMMENT:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> I wasn't clear on where the  thread ended up from the Gen-ART review, 
>>> but I'm
>>> nevertheless suggesting some text below to resolve the main sticking 
>>> point.
>>> OLD
>>> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD 
>>> advertise the
>>> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
>>> NEW
>>> If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD 
>>> advertise the
>>> ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. The absence 
>>> of these
>>> advertisements implies that advertisement of the ELC is not supported.
>>
>> I added the suggested text, plus I added "OSPF" at the end. So the 
>> text is:
>>
>> "If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD 
>> advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF. 
>> The absence of these advertisements implies that advertisement of the 
>> ELC is not supported in OSPF."
>>
>> I added similar text to ISIS ELC draft.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>> Not sure if that matches the intent though.
> 


From nobody Thu May 21 10:51:24 2020
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 13:51:07 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV3e_qm=RmTQyQ+yCWN+pt_d1Aw8-W9gkRwH+_kAyphu8Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your questions.
>
>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide tw=
o
> modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode=
).
> The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding
> topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former
> proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the
> distributed mode.
>

   Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as
to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a homogeneous
complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.

In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
specification flow nicely.

I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however
there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP
Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but
really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have sep=
arate
draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm
concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.

Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/

This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
distributed algorithm see below

6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-=
05#section-6.4>.
Area Leader Responsibilities

   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
   flooding topologies.

   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.

   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.

   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
   destabilizing the network.
6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-=
05#section-6.5>.
Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation

   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
   flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
   defined by the protocol.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
   the Area Leader.

   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the
responsibility of the

network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common
understanding of what the given algorithm value represents.


Former =3D WG LC
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08

Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft

Separate question-

In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section
6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for
flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe
0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely
separate since a different function then flex algo values.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07


> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
> Huaimo
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH=
%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm.
>
>
>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynam=
ic
> Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data
> center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used =
by
> the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
> Gyan
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUt=
jkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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i.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FB=
jEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=3D0=
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> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327633988&sdata=3DynmYABCZrGN%2F8N64BptBEbnBH=
xMR7S3b%2FkVz5uO0EZI%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A=
%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0f=
ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327643983&sdata=3Dma%2Bv7=
qm1pab2bjLQ5szL4wCjOCOc5WuYoFHmxd9BOy8%3D&reserved=3D0>*Gyan
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEm=
jK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy=
%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327673971&sdata=3DYcMh3o%2F2a%2FNmVBFKcj4c8Ms=
Qn8GfQS41843hjMi3hrs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5w=
DLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFb=
TKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>13101
> Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000e11c3b05a62c287b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!important;borde=
r-color:rgb(0,0,0)!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!important;border-color=
:rgb(0,0,0)!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204)">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif"><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">=
=C2=A0</span>Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for fl=
ood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the ope=
rators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood reduction. W=
ould having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing t=
o me.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a=
 href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=
=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=
=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a>=
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-=
serif;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif"><span style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span=
><span style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;d=
isplay:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif"><br style=3D"color:rgb(50,49,48);font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot=
;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-syst=
em,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can pr=
ovide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribu=
ted mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flo=
oding topology computation algorithm for the
 distributed mode. The former proposes a=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline!important;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255)">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the=
 distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference eac=
h other as to how they play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any provi=
de a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solv=
ed. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In my opinion=
 it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the solution is co=
mplete and holistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall specification fl=
ow nicely. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I know=
 that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however there=
 are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Link sta=
te protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but really it=
=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe it might we wise to have separat=
e draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm=
 concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would va=
ry as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Later =3D Dynamic floodin=
g =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distributed=C2=A0</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">T=
his later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribut=
ed algorithm see below=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto" style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!important;border-color:rgb(0,0=
,0)!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important"><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;box-sizing:border-box;overf=
low:auto;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:0px;b=
order-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-r=
adius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:white"><span class=
=3D"h3" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-family:monospace;font-weight:bo=
ld;line-height:0pt;margin-top:21px;margin-bottom:10.5px;font-size:1em;displ=
ay:inline;color:inherit"><a class=3D"selflink" id=3D"section-6.4" href=3D"h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#sec=
tion-6.4" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-family:monospace;background-c=
olor:transparent;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</a>.  Area Leader Responsibiliti=
es</span>

   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
   flooding topologies.

   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.

   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.

   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
   destabilizing the network.

<span class=3D"h3" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-family:monospace;fon=
t-weight:bold;line-height:0pt;margin-top:21px;margin-bottom:10.5px;font-siz=
e:1em;display:inline;color:inherit"><a class=3D"selflink" id=3D"section-6.5=
" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding-05#section-6.5" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;outline:-webkit-focus-r=
ing-color auto 5px;font-family:monospace;background-color:transparent;color=
:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</a>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span>

   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
   flooding topology based on the Area Leader&#39;s advertised algorithm.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
   defined by the protocol.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
   the Area Leader.

   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the <span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt">res=
ponsibility of the=C2=A0</span></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;box-sizing:border-box;overflow:a=
uto;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;l=
ine-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:0px;border=
-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius=
:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:white"><span style=3D"f=
ont-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt">network o=
perator to guarantee that all nodes in </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace">the area have a common=
 understanding of what the given algorithm </span><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace">value represents.<=
/span></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;=
,Monaco,monospace;box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-size:10.5pt;padd=
ing:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-brea=
k:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;bord=
er-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-r=
adius:4px;background-color:white"><br></pre></div><div dir=3D"auto">Former =
=3D WG LC=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a></div><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as wel=
l as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding d=
raft=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Separate ques=
tion-</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In light of the fl=
ooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions floo=
ding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non=
 overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-127.=C2=A0 I would t=
hink the flooding algorithm range of values is completely separate since a =
different function then flex algo values.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-=
lsr-flex-algo-07</a></div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;=
padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_-9202218654295123373appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"C=
alibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;=
color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> Gya=
n Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" sty=
le=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:36 AM</font></div></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div id=3D"m_-9202=
218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif=
" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">=
<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below w=
ith [HC].</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490appendonsend"></di=
v>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg" dir=
=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif">From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 20=
20 11:14 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<b=
r>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: Thank you very much.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for=
 dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature description and it does seem t=
o be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to =
get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with =
the IETF.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451q=
kfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-=
series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wa=
nted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: <span style=3D"display:inline!important;background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255)">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
.=C2=A0</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the=
 WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard=
 options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized=
 flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features
 standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing f=
or operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd=
947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;=
sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding/</a></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"display:inline!important;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span style=3D"display:inline!important;background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hi Gy=
an,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:12pt;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
);color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calib=
ri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255);color:rgb(50,49,48)"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(=
255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Best =
Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Huaim=
o</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_54430628246269=
53867divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
">From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" =
target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=
=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 =
PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2B=
ghP7%2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
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a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000e11c3b05a62c287b--


From nobody Thu May 21 12:39:51 2020
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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:38:56 -0700
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Peter,

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:05:39PM +0200, Peter Psenak wrote:
> Benjamin,
> 
> thanks for review, please see inline (##PP):
> 
> On 20/05/2020 00:44, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote:
> > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: Discuss
> > 
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> > 
> > 
> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> > 
> > 
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSPF
> > document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
> > they only appear for one document's review.
> > 
> > Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
> > in Section 3:
> > 
> >     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
> >     MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> > 
> > The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
> > the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
> > implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
> > requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
> > document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
> > implement this document?
> 
> ##PP
> this is a new requirement and only applies to the routers that support 
> this document. We are not making normative requirements of devices that 
> don't implement this document, we cannot.
> 
> Maybe we can add that it only applies to the routers that supports this 
> extension:
> 
> "When a router supporting this extension propagates a prefix between 
> ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix."
> 
> Would it work?

That would work, yes.
I think what bothers me about the current text is that it feels like a
global statement that holds universally everywhere (and as such would be
"scope overreach").  Even to say something like "ELC signaling MUST be
preserved when a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels" (which is
superficially similar) does not bother me very much, since it presumes a
knowledge of what ELC signaling is (and thus, implementation of this
document) in a way that "unknown prefix attribute flag 3" does not.  That
is, we clearly (given your above explanation) don't expect the "unknown
prefix attribute flag 3" to get propagaged, and only when we know that it's
the ELC signalling does the requirement kick in, if that makes sense.

With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
thanks!  I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear in
the document.

> 
> > 
> > Likewise, the ASBR case for cross-protocol redistribution seems to
> > rather inherently require understanding the semantics of the flags being
> > translated.
> 
> similarly to the above I can chnage to:
> 
> "When a router supporting this extension redistribute a prefix ..."
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Section 1
> > 
> > Should we add a sentence at the end of the last paragraph about how
> > "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using IS-IS"?
> 
> not sure I understand, how is described in the body of the document.

I think I maybe put a little more detail on the motivation for this
question in the OSPF document's comments.  Basically, it's about parity
between Abstract and Introduction -- the Introduction says clearly "this
draft defines a mechanism to signal the ELC using IS-IS", but there is not
an analogous statement about the ERLD signaling mechanism.  As such, it's
an editorial matter of style and you should feel free to ignore the comment
or do what you see fit.

> > 
> >     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> > 
> > side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
> > privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
> > talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
> > surprising to me.
> 
> this document describes the ELC/ERLD capability signaling for SR MPLS. 
> For non SR MPLS cases, thee are existing mechanisms to learn ELC/ERLD.
> 
> I can replace the text with:
> 
> "In cases where SR is used with the MPLS Data Plane"
> 
> Would it work?

Sure, thanks.

> 
> > 
> > Section 3
> > 
> >     unless all of its interfaces are capable of processing ELs.  If a
> >     router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC
> >     for every local host prefix it advertises in IS-IS.
> > 
> > Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
> > prefixes?
> 
> Do we have to? I can add "MUST NOT set ELC with for any other prefix", 
> but I find it unneeded.

This is the "comment" section of the document, so no, you don't have to :)
I mostly ask because we give guidance on what to do for local host prefixes
but say nothing about the other case.  That could be taken to imply that we
don't know what guidance to give, even though someone skilled in the area
who thinks through what the mechanism is doing will come to the conclusion
that it makes no sense/is actively harmful to advertise the ELC for other
prefixes.

> > 
> > Section 4
> > 
> > I agree with Roman's comment about code 2 vs TBD2.
> 
> that has been fixed already.
> 
> > 
> >     ERLD in the range between 0 to 255.  The scope of the advertisement
> >     depends on the application.  If a router has multiple interfaces with
> > 
> > Just to check: w.r.t. "scope", both this document and the OSPF one only
> > define usage of this MSD type at the scope of a single node, right?  (I
> > don't see a particular reason to preclude using it at a different
> > scope.)
> 
> the scope here means where the information will be flooded - area only 
> or network wide. No such thing as a node scope.

Oops, sorry for misremembering that part, and thanks for the clarification.

> 
> > 
> > Section 6
> > 
> >        - Bit 3 in the Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV
> >        registry has been assigned to the ELC Flag.  IANA is asked to
> > 
> > Is there an "IS-IS" in the name of this registry?
> 
> no the registry name is "Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV".

Okay, thanks for confirming.

> 
> > 
> > Section 7
> > 
> > Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
> > information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
> > to external parties?
> 
> why would this be "internal information" and why redistribution would be 
> "external party"? Redistribution between IGPs is predominantly done 
> between IGPs under same administrative domain.

I don't have any scenario in mind; I just wanted to check if there were any
significant considerations to mention.  It sounds like there aren't such
considerations, and thus nothing to mention.
> 
> > 
> >     This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
> >     capabilities using IS-IS and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
> >     considerations as described in [RFC7981], [RFC7752], [RFC7794],
> >     [RFC8491], [RFC8662], [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
> > 
> > RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
> > 6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
> > directly in this list as well.
> 
> would not that be implicit when mentioning RFC 8662?

Yes; this is mostly a question of style.

> 
> > 
> >     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
> >     document.
> > 
> > Could we also have a brief note that the normal IS-IS authentication
> > mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?
> 
> do we need to repeat this every time we add a bit in the TLV?

It's my preference, though not a strict need.

> > 
> >     Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
> >     redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
> >     node.
> > 
> > This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
> > erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
> > flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
> > occur)?
> 
> yes, there is a text there already:
> 
> "Incorrectly setting of the ERLD value may lead to poor or no 
> load-balancing of the traffic."

I thought that was about the ERLD value, not the ELC indicator, but trust
you to know best.

> > 
> > Section 8
> > 
> > I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
> > you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
> > consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
> > co-authors?
> 
> I'm not fun of this 5 authors rule to be honest.
> 
> > 
> > Section 10.1
> > 
> > Should we reference RFC 7981 from Section 4 as well?  Right now we seem
> > to only use it for the security considerations, which is not necessarily
> > enough to qualify it as a normative reference.
> 
> we reference RFC8491, which references RFC 7981. I don't see a need to 
> reference RFC 7981 directly.

Okay.

Thanks for the clarifications and updates!

-Ben


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Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 12:41:15 -0700
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, aretana.ietf@gmail.com
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:16:44PM +0200, Peter Psenak wrote:
> Hi Benjamin,
> 
> thanks for review.
> 
> Please see inline (##PP) two responses to OSPF specific comments.
> 
> 
> On 20/05/2020 00:43, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote:
> > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13: Discuss
> > 
> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> > introductory paragraph, however.)
> > 
> > 
> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> > 
> > 
> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > I have a question about the scope of some normative language, which may
> > or may not be problematic but I'm too ignorant of OSPF details to be
> > able to answer myself.  In Section 3 we say that:
> > 
> >     When an OSPF Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> >     connected areas it MUST preserve the ELC setting.
> > 
> > My undesrtanding is that it's normal operation for an ABR to
> > distribution information about prefixes and such between areas, and in
> > particular that an ABR does not necessarily need to know the semantic
> > details of every bit of information being distributed in that fashion.
> > So, I am imagining a scenario where some routers in both areas
> > advertise/understand the ELC flag but the ABR between them does not
> > implement this spec.  What would happen in such a scenario?  If the ABR
> > is still expected to distribute the ELC setting without change, isn't
> > that just a core requirement from the respective OSPF specs, as opposed
> > to a new requirement imposed by this spec (which, in this scenario, the
> > ABR is not claiming to adhere to anyway)?
> > 
> > There is perhaps a similar question about the ASBR guidance, though when
> > doing cross-protocol signalling there is a more clear need for the ASBR
> > to understand the semantics of the flags it is redistributing (and it's
> > only a "SHOULD").
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Section 1
> > 
> > The abstract is pretty explicit that "this draft defines" both ELC and
> > ERLD signaling capabilities, but this section only has a clear statement
> > for the ELC.  Should we put something at the end of the last paragraph
> > about "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using OSPFv2
> > and OSPFv3"?
> 
> ##PP
> this has been already addressed based on previous comments. Latest text 
> is as follows:
> 
> "Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to 
> load-balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL). An ingress Label
> Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a given 
> Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated via 
> signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to as the 
> Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP. In addition, it would be 
> useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability for reading the 
> maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-balancing, 
> referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD). This document 
> defines a mechanism to signal these two capabilities using OSPFv2 and 
> OSPFv3 and BGP-LS."

Great; thanks!

> >     In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
> > 
> > side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
> > privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
> > talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
> > surprising to me.
> > 
> > Section 3
> > 
> >     If the router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD
> >     advertise the ELC with every local host prefix it advertises in OSPF.
> > 
> > Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
> > prefixes?
> > 
> > Section 7
> > 
> > Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
> > information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
> > to external parties?
> > 
> >     This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
> >     capabilities using OSPF and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
> >     considerations as described in [RFC5340], [RFC7770], [RFC7752],
> >     [RFC7684], [RFC8476], [RFC8662],
> > 
> > RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
> > 6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
> > directly in this list as well.
> > 
> >     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
> >     [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
> >     document.
> > 
> > Could we also have a brief note that the (respective) OSPF security
> > mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?
> > 
> >     Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
> >     redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
> >     node.
> > 
> > This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
> > erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
> > flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
> > occur)?
> > 
> > Section 8
> > 
> > I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
> > you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
> > consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
> > co-authors?
> > 
> > Section 10.2
> > 
> > It's slightly surprising to see the core OSPF protocols only listed as
> > informative, but I can see how they are to be considered "basic
> > specifications" in the vein of
> > https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/normative-informative-references/
> 
> ##PP
> right, I can add it as normative, or remove completely, or keep as 
> informative. Whatever you like :)

Keep it as-is seems simplest, then.  But thanks :)

-Ben


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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In-Reply-To: <424B17B1-D66D-4708-A819-855E972841AF@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 16:20:07 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/rzf63rsWQY8KZCfafj7wo1pbNiI>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the
discussion for this.

If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful.

That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
then I am all set.

I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
feature.

I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that
scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much much
needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of
using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good id=
ea to
> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions.
>
>
>
>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide tw=
o
> modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode=
).
> The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding
> topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former
> proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the
> distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
>
>
>
> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propos=
ed
> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>
>
>
> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
> specification flow nicely.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that fr=
om
> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples b=
ut
> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have s=
eparate
> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm
> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>
>
>
> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
> distributed
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>
>
>
> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
> distributed algorithm see below
>
>
>
> *6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-05#section-6.4>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>
>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>
>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>
>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>
>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>
>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>
>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>
>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>
>    flooding topologies.
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>
>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>
>
>
>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>
>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>
>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>
>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>
>    destabilizing the network.
>
>
>
> *6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-05#section-6.5>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>
>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>
>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>
>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>
>    defined by the protocol.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>
>    the Area Leader.
>
>
>
>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>
>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsi=
bility of the
>
> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common un=
derstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>
>
>
> Former =3D WG LC
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>
>
>
> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>
>
>
> Separate question-
>
>
>
> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>
>
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> Huaimo
>
>
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
>
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
>
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH=
%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm..
>
>
>
>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can
> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodin=
g
> topology.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
>
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
>
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUt=
jkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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i.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FB=
jEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> *Gyan
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>Mishra*
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEm=
jK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy=
%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5w=
DLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFb=
TKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000ca114f05a62e3d68
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR m=
ail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If you have link to any particular dates in t=
he archives would be helpful.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archi=
ves then I am all set.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I=
 support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed featu=
re. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think overa=
ll both drafts will really help large data centers with any overlay underla=
y vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horiz=
ontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much much needed feature.=
=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of using BGP =
in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div><div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:0=
7 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. =
It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1=
1:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC=
 draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard optio=
ns in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features
 for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features s=
tandardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for=
 operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544b=
a4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668=
6327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;r=
eserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flood=
ing reduction can provide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centraliz=
ed mode and distributed mode). The latter describes
 the two modes, but does not include any flooding topology computation algo=
rithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a=C2=A0<span style=3D"b=
ackground:white">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the =
distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It =
maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as to how they=
 play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any provide a homogeneous compl=
ete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It is a good idea to have this new draft reference t=
he dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft=
 provides a framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a se=
parate flooding topology. This algorithm
 is just the first to be formally proposed in a draft. Note that another al=
gorithm was presented during the LSR virtual interim which replaced IETF 10=
7. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">In my opinion it may not =
be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the solution is complete and h=
olistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall specification flow nicely. =
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this. <u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pu=
rple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I know that efforts were =
made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however there are many inherent =
differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspec=
tive you can treat like apples to apples
 but really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe it might we wise t=
o have separate draft for both and have references linking together as the =
same algorithm concept and mathematically however the actual code implement=
ation would vary as the LSDB link state data
 structures are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Later =3D Dynamic floodin=
g =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distributed=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This later draft per sect=
ion excerpt provides both centralized and distributed algorithm see below=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 class=3D"m_2130119924291467262h3"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-05#section-6.4" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#3d22b=
3">6.4</span></a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertis=
e</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In order for Dynami=
c</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flood=
ing</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;">=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area Leader may update the flood=
ing</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;">=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the netw=
ork</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;">=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology changes.=C2=A0 If the Area=
 Leader</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quo=
t;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new floodin=
g</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and=
 old</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"=
><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertis=
e a</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;">=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Su=
b-</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><=
u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding =
is</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><=
u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this applies whether the Area L=
eader</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;=
"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u=
><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u=
><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 class=3D"m_2130119924291467262h3"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-05#section-6.5" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#27167=
3">6.5</span></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></=
b></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><=
u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Le=
ader</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"=
><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and =
the</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;">=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Leader&#39;s advertised algor=
ithm.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;=
"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by th=
e</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></=
u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by th=
e</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable node=
s by</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"=
><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is fr=
om</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><=
u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the res=
ponsibility of the=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all;box-si=
zing:border-box;word-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-=
right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4=
px;overflow:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the are=
a have a common understanding of what the given algorithm value represents.=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in;background:white;word-break:break-all;box-si=
zing:border-box;word-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-=
right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4=
px;overflow:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08=
</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Provides algorithm for di=
stributed mode for this draft as well as the algorithm to be used for distr=
ibuted mode later dynamic flooding draft=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Separate question-<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">In light of the flooding =
algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding al=
gorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overla=
pping with the flex algo codepoints
 I believe 0-127.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm range of value=
s is completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">=
<div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;=
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"></blockquote></div></div></div></div><d=
iv lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924=
291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-le=
ft:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-r=
ight:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Huaimo<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-al=
ign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"color:b=
lack">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlin=
k=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0=
in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div>
<div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" l=
ink=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSectio=
n1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.=
0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div=
>
<div id=3D"m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=
=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"=
><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt=
;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><d=
iv>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><di=
v lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_21301199242=
91467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-lef=
t:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-ri=
ght:0in"><div><div><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 1=
1:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lan=
g=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467=
262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:sol=
id #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0=
in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:s=
olid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right=
:0in">
<div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></=
div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div cla=
ss=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"bor=
der:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-l=
eft:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"b=
order:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin=
-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answer=
s are inline below with [HC].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D=
"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:n=
one;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border=
:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left=
:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" lin=
k=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1=
"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><=
div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.=
0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black">Huaimo<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-al=
ign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183=
490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"color:b=
lack">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div cl=
ass=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"bo=
rder:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-=
left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"=
border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margi=
n-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div></div></div></div></blockquot=
e></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_21301199242914=
67262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:s=
olid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right=
:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left=
:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-rig=
ht:0in"><div><div><div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This is a much needed fea=
ture that operators have been needing for densely meshed topologies that co=
mmonly exist in data centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[HC]: Thank you very much=
.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Below is link from Cisco =
which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP=
 data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Please look at the featur=
e description and it does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 =
Please confirm.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[HC]: It seems different.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">There maybe other vendors=
 due to industry demand have to get the feature deployed before it reaches =
standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><=
div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=
=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;m=
argin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt=
;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div></div></div></div>=
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D=
"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:n=
one;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border=
:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left=
:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fe=
n%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwh=
ite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%=
7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7=
C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwu=
WpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/e=
n/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c1=
1-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We are testing this featu=
re and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the=
 draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pur=
ple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote=
 style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6=
.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquo=
te style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in=
 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[HC]: <span style=3D"colo=
r:black;background:white">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_213=
0119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;bo=
rder-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;m=
argin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Ho=
w does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Wou=
ld they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or =
competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing t=
o me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%=
2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPg=
lGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lan=
g=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467=
262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:sol=
id #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0=
in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:s=
olid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right=
:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" v=
link=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div>=
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><di=
v><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:=
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><=
div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 1=
1:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blo=
ckquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><b=
lockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in =
0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div>=
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"></blockquote></div></di=
v></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote=
></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"=
><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt=
;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0=
pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote=
 style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6=
.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
This F</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#323130;background:white">looding Topology Computation
 algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute t=
he flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data center clos dense meshed topologie=
s with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in the centralize=
d mode to compute the flooding topology.
 =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Best Regards,<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Huaimo</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-al=
ign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183=
490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"color:b=
lack">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on b=
ehalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D=
"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSection1"><d=
iv><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;pa=
dding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div>=
<div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><di=
v><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div>
<div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></=
div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=
=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_21301199242914672=
62WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:soli=
d #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0i=
n"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:so=
lid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:=
0in"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:=
solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-righ=
t:0in"><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I support WG adoption and=
 have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Does this flooding algori=
thm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in data center clos dense meshe=
d topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the phy=
sical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flooding
 algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the ar=
ea leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode=
 the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the f=
looding topology based on the algorithm.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This dynamic algorithm fo=
r optimized flood reduction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding i=
n highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization=
 of flooding would improving overall link
 state routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3=
:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bo=
unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG ado=
ption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=
=9D draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM,=
 UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection=
.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr=
-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C6=
0df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%=
7C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7=
%2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d=
oc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">_________________________=
______________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzN=
xb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262Word=
Section1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #ccc=
ccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><di=
v><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #c=
ccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><=
div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid =
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"=
><div><div><div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
s://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.=
com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b754=
47f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632763=
3988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-decoration:none"=
><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><i=
mg border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.8437in;height:.1=
875in" id=3D"m_2130119924291467262_x0000_i1028" alt=3D"Image removed by sen=
der."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0=
D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank=
">
</a>Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/m=
aps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-=
bottom:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M 301 =
502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">1=
3101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327663981&amp;sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKv=
vOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
s://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.=
com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b754=
47f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632767=
3971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-decoration:non=
e"><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">=
<img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.8437in;height:=
.1875in" id=3D"m_2130119924291467262_x0000_i1027" alt=3D"Image removed by s=
ender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A=
+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg"=
>
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-=
bottom:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M 301 =
502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sb=
k84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">131=
01
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327693961&amp;sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
s://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.=
com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b754=
47f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632769=
3961&amp;sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-decoration:none"=
><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><i=
mg border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.8437in;height:.1=
875in" id=3D"m_2130119924291467262_x0000_i1026" alt=3D"Image removed by sen=
der."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M =
301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Colum=
bia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-de=
coration:none"><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;p=
adding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.84=
37in;height:.1875in" id=3D"m_2130119924291467262_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image =
removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" l=
ink=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_2130119924291467262WordSectio=
n1"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bott=
om:.0001pt"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M =
301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0=
<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
Thread-Index: AQHWKvCWbO+rNwui80Sty0q3wo/aI6iuQDRQgAC6fICAAVrmiIAAx0uAgADIYX+AAL9sAIAAAVeagAA06ID//+MZAIAARoiA///qD4A=
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:01:43 +0000
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In-Reply-To: <E093695B-78DE-4332-B4E7-87343077624E@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 22:13:49 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/nvi9-MQ7DfHXuEC5OUf84tnH658>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
minimum.

I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow without
a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.

Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and
CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.

>From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?

That would help.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08

4.1

Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue

For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.

My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to right
or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the FT
is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node b=
y
node.

4.2

1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
          D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };

This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected nodes

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html

My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.

So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.

For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two
spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in th=
e
> discussion for this.
>
>
>
> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful=
.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=9C=
epiphany=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
> then I am all set.
>
>
>
> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
> feature.
>
>
>
> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that
> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much muc=
h
> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround o=
f
> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>
>
>
> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorith=
m/
>
>
>
> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good id=
ea to
> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions.
>
>
>
>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide tw=
o
> modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode=
).
> The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding
> topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former
> proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the
> distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
>
>
>
> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propos=
ed
> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>
>
>
> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
> specification flow nicely.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that fr=
om
> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples b=
ut
> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have s=
eparate
> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm
> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>
>
>
> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
> distributed
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>
>
>
> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
> distributed algorithm see below
>
>
>
> *6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-05#section-6.4>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>
>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>
>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>
>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>
>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>
>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>
>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>
>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>
>    flooding topologies.
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>
>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>
>
>
>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>
>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>
>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>
>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>
>    destabilizing the network.
>
>
>
> *6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-05#section-6.5>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>
>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>
>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>
>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>
>    defined by the protocol.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>
>    the Area Leader.
>
>
>
>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>
>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsi=
bility of the
>
> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common un=
derstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>
>
>
> Former =3D WG LC
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>
>
>
> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>
>
>
> Separate question-
>
>
>
> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>
>
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> Huaimo
>
>
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
>
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
>
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH=
%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm..
>
>
>
>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liv=
iazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can
> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodin=
g
> topology.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
>
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
>
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUt=
jkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewe=
i.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FB=
jEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> *Gyan
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>Mishra*
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Network
> Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEm=
jK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy=
%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>13101
> Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5w=
DLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFb=
TKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b=
75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668632=
7693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.* <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000b4680c05a6332e55
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good t=
o have a stick diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts a=
re hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology =
examples. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Four ma=
in topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and CLOS (=
 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Tha=
t would help.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a hr=
ef=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction=
-08">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-=
08</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=C2=A0</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"b=
ox-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,m=
onospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:0px;b=
order-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-right-r=
adius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:white">For each no=
de B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and star=
ts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work le=
ft to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each=
 node B with directly attached node R via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B fr=
om Cq until the FT is build for all nodes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a=
 wide diameter FT matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=
=3D1 and go node by node.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">4.2=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre class=
=3D"newpage" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:=
break-word;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4p=
x;border-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-c=
olor:white">1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq th=
at is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connec=
ted nodes=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-0=
0.html">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-0=
0.html</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algori=
thm from the verbiage.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">S=
o this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards lea=
f spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connect=
ed to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out =
the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding=
-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started r=
eviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any =
particular dates in the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=
=9D than an =E2=80=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the que=
stions I have so if all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft movi=
ng forward as flood reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both dra=
fts will really help large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spi=
ne leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally wit=
h a large spine footprint - this is a
 much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of th=
e workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous compl=
exity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the other recently presented dynamic floodin=
g draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ch=
en-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You can see they both make use of the dynamic floodi=
ng infra in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pur=
ple"><div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1"><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">=
<div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1"><div><div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0=
in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204=
,204)"></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blu=
e" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1"><div>=
<div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-wid=
th:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea=
 to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusag=
sm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0Gyan&gt; How does this dra=
ft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two =
eventual standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing featu=
res for optimized flood reduction. Would having two
 flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reducti=
on feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me=
.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2=
Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futu=
rewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu=
5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft p=
lus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two modes of flooding redu=
ctions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode). The latter describes =
the two modes, but does not include any flooding
 topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former propos=
es a=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:white">flooding topology computat=
ion algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference =
each other as to how they play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any pr=
ovide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being s=
olved. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first
 to be formally proposed in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presen=
ted during the LSR virtual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall spe=
cification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe
 it might we wise to have separate draft for both and have references linki=
ng together as the same algorithm concept and mathematically however the ac=
tual code implementation would vary as the LSDB link state data structures =
are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m213011992429146=
7262h3" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;color:black"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-0=
5#section-6.4" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span></a>.=C2=A0 Area=
 Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
.=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m213011992429146=
7262h3" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;color:black"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-0=
5#section-6.5" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</span></a>.=C2=A0 Dist=
ributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-fam=
ily:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of what the given =
algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-redu=
ction-08" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-=
lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm
 range of values is completely separate since a different function then fle=
x algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-0=
7" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-f=
lex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-920221865429512337=
3divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-920221865429512337=
3divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-920221865429512337=
3x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-=
9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD94=
40Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;color:black">The feature appear=
s implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs&quot;, which doe=
s not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..=C2=A0</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for f=
lood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the op=
erators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood reduction. =
Would having two flood reduction features standardized
 versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.=
=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd94720=
1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=
=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding Topology Comput=
ation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding
 on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data cente=
r clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the =
area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-920221865429512337=
3x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabus=
agsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flooding algo=
rithm mentioned in centralized mode the
 flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=
=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the algorithm =
and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algorithm. =
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.=
=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state =
routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-s=
ystems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60=
df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%=
2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzN=
xb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlin=
k=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1"><div><div><b=
lockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327633988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%=
0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Soluti=
ons Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327663981&amp;sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKv=
vOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327673971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>=
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif">
</a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVh=
M3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"=
 style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327693961&amp;sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327693961&amp;sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-3104503748293921115Wor=
dSection1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid=
;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-rig=
ht:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Georgia,serif">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid=
 windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error=
! Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:Georgia,serif">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decorati=
on:none;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pad=
ding:0in;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"m_-3104503748293921115_=
x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><a href=3D"https://=
www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?ent=
ry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 22:32:13 -0400
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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I see the diagrams Appendix A -  reviewing

Thanks

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:13 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
> minimum.
>
> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>
> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>
> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
>
> That would help.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>
> 4.1
>
> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>
> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>
> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to righ=
t
> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the =
FT
> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node=
 by
> node.
>
> 4.2
>
> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.
>
>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>
>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>
>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>
> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected node=
s
>
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html
>
> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>
> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>
> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two
> spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
>> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
>> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
>> lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in
>> the discussion for this.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpfu=
l.
>>
>>
>>
>> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D.
>>
>>
>>
>> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
>> then I am all set.
>>
>>
>>
>> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
>> feature.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
>> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology tha=
t
>> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much mu=
ch
>> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround =
of
>> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm/
>>
>>
>>
>> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good i=
dea to
>> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
>> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thanks much for your questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havi=
ng
>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing =
to
>> me.
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9li=
viazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide
>> two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed
>> mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any
>> flooding topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The
>> former proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in
>> the distributed mode.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
>> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
>> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
>> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
>> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
>> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propo=
sed
>> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
>> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so th=
e
>> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
>> specification flow nicely.
>>
>>
>>
>> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
>> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that f=
rom
>> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples =
but
>> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have =
separate
>> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorith=
m
>> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
>> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
>> distributed
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>
>>
>>
>> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
>> distributed algorithm see below
>>
>>
>>
>> *6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flood=
ing-05#section-6.4>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>>
>>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>>
>>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>>
>>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>>
>>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>>
>>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>>
>>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>>
>>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>>
>>    flooding topologies.
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>>
>>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>>
>>
>>
>>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>>
>>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>>
>>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>>
>>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>>
>>    destabilizing the network.
>>
>>
>>
>> *6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flood=
ing-05#section-6.5>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>>
>>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>>
>>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>>
>>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>
>>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>>
>>    defined by the protocol.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>
>>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>>
>>    the Area Leader.
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>>
>>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the respons=
ibility of the
>>
>> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common u=
nderstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Former =3D WG LC
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>>
>>
>>
>> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
>> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>>
>>
>>
>> Separate question-
>>
>>
>>
>> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
>> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
>> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
>> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
>> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>>
>>
>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.o=
rg
>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC=
].
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.o=
rg
>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>> Huaimo
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for
>> densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to
>> accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>>
>> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic
>> flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly th=
e
>> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>>
>> [HC]: It seems different.
>>
>>
>>
>> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
>> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-se=
ries-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-se=
ries-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40=
futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d=
5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2Bz=
H%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
>> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>>
>> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
>> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
>> algorithm..
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havi=
ng
>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing =
to
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9li=
viazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>>
>>
>>
>>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
>> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
>> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It ca=
n
>> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodi=
ng
>> topology.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
>> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
>> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
>> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
>> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
>> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
>> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
>> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>>
>>
>>
>> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
>> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
>> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall li=
nk
>> state routing protocol convergence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>>
>> Support it as a co-author.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Yanhe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=
=9CFlooding
>> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support=
 or
>> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
>> for your convenience.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIU=
tjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurew=
ei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2F=
BjEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4=
b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372566863=
27633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=3D=
0>
>>
>> *Gyan
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>Mishra*
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Network
>> Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XE=
mjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAq=
y%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4=
b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372566863=
27673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>13101
>> Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5=
wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqF=
bTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4=
b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372566863=
27693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=3D=
0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.* <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000007fca9505a63370d9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I see the diagrams Appendix A - =C2=A0revi=
ewing=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21=
, 2020 at 10:13 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be goo=
d to have a stick diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both draft=
s are hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topolo=
gy examples. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Four=
 main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and CLO=
S ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual=
 topology shared?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
That would help.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduct=
ion-08" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate =
queue=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Mon=
aco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:=
0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-ri=
ght-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:white">For ea=
ch node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and star=
ts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work le=
ft to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each=
 node B with directly attached node R via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B fr=
om Cq until the FT is build for all nodes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a=
 wide diameter FT matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=
=3D1 and go node by node.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">4.2=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Mon=
aco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:=
0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-ri=
ght-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:white">1.  Fi=
nding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connec=
ted nodes=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-0=
0.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My interpreta=
tion of the algorithm from the verbiage.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is =
geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that cou=
ld be leaf connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iter=
atively build out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or lea=
f spine leaf.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regar=
ds=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204=
,204)">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started r=
eviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any =
particular dates in the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=
=9D than an =E2=80=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the que=
stions I have so if all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft movi=
ng forward as flood reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both dra=
fts will really help large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spi=
ne leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally wit=
h a large spine footprint - this is a
 much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of th=
e workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous compl=
exity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the other recently presented dynamic floodin=
g draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ch=
en-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You can see they both make use of the dynamic floodi=
ng infra in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pur=
ple"><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">=
<div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;borde=
r-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=
;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"></blockquote></div></div></div></div><=
div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><div><blockquot=
e style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:=
0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea=
 to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusag=
sm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0Gyan&gt; How does this dra=
ft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two =
eventual standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing featu=
res for optimized flood reduction. Would having two
 flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reducti=
on feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me=
.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2=
Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futu=
rewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu=
5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft p=
lus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two modes of flooding redu=
ctions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode). The latter describes =
the two modes, but does not include any flooding
 topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former propos=
es a=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:white">flooding topology computat=
ion algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference =
each other as to how they play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any pr=
ovide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being s=
olved. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first
 to be formally proposed in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presen=
ted during the LSR virtual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall spe=
cification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe
 it might we wise to have separate draft for both and have references linki=
ng together as the same algorithm concept and mathematically however the ac=
tual code implementation would vary as the LSDB link state data structures =
are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.4" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
.=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of what the given =
algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-redu=
ction-08" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-=
lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm
 range of values is completely separate since a different function then fle=
x algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-0=
7" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-f=
lex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m=
_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m=
_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m=
_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-=
9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD94=
40Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;color:black">The feature appear=
s implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs&quot;, which doe=
s not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..=C2=A0</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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</div>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for f=
lood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the op=
erators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood reduction. =
Would having two flood reduction features standardized
 versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.=
=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd94720=
1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=
=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding Topology Comput=
ation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding
 on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data cente=
r clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the =
area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m=
_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRply=
FwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabus=
agsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flooding algo=
rithm mentioned in centralized mode the
 flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=
=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the algorithm =
and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algorithm. =
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.=
=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state =
routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-s=
ystems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60=
df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%=
2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzN=
xb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlin=
k=3D"purple"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none non=
e solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;mar=
gin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327633988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%=
0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Soluti=
ons Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327663981&amp;sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKv=
vOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327673971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>=
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVh=
M3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327693961&amp;sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327693961&amp;sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN=
-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"bor=
der-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6p=
t;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><d=
iv><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;bo=
rder-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border=
-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><div><div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid=
 windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error=
! Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decorati=
on:none;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pad=
ding:0in;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width:0.8437in;height:0.1875in" id=3D"m_648954865319751832m_-3104=
503748293921115_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span=
></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,8=
5,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
 height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"fon=
t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" styl=
e=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font><=
/i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
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References: <63330FD6-EDE8-4938-AA85-948279C57E34@cisco.com> <DM6PR06MB509842BA0E42A4938ACB2B94EEB80@DM6PR06MB5098.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3jQ=C6ynJBsKhJW_b=hkq7CKPFG2ci0vXE_0jZH9KtXQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117C43CA052E4E29D7428CBF2B60@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV2Y3kemTdHYBamZwAB+m5DefxqTC0shPan2cGHd9TARTg@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117E84C778B11D71FAF8135F2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV1W3EDJpqUjLGj3-E-8L1R=75oAgtHX==9qkfrvrZy2ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117A5E68B341A203266C64AF2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3e_qm=RmTQyQ+yCWN+pt_d1Aw8-W9gkRwH+_kAyphu8Q@mail.gmail.com> <424B17B1-D66D-4708-A819-855E972841AF@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2cDoNotaePw30eZa5wE61NC_vh8cFaZHh_nPqs1ibFsg@mail.gmail.com> <E093695B-78DE-4332-B4E7-87343077624E@cisco.com> <CABNhwV1cfOE+trZGM-s44xU0su5RUgL2c7ubRCdc3EFCWsdujw@mail.gmail.com> <CABNhwV0kA5vXxFbwZ__MjDNYsymEfKawMR1qqXoKVr24mOGATw@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:59:37 -0700
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi, Gyan,

I presented
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html i=
n
the last IETF. You may find the slides below helpful in understanding the
algorithm:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-lsr-01/materials/slides-i=
nterim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flooding-algo-sarah.pdf

Thanks,
Sarah

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:32 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I see the diagrams Appendix A -  reviewing
>
> Thanks
>
> Gyan
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:13 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
>> minimum.
>>
>> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
>> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>>
>> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
>> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>>
>> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
>>
>> That would help.
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>>
>> 4.1
>>
>> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>>
>> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
>>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>>
>> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
>> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to rig=
ht
>> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
>> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the=
 FT
>> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
>> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go nod=
e by
>> node.
>>
>> 4.2
>>
>> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.
>>
>>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>>
>>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH'=
s
>>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
>>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>>
>>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>>
>> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected
>> nodes
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.htm=
l
>>
>> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>>
>> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
>> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>>
>> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to tw=
o
>> spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
>> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
>>> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
>>> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
>>> lsr@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in
>>> the discussion for this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be
>>> helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archive=
s
>>> then I am all set.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
>>> feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with an=
y
>>> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology th=
at
>>> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much m=
uch
>>> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround=
 of
>>> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algori=
thm/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good =
idea to
>>> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
>>> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Thanks much for your questions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operator=
s
>>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would hav=
ing
>>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing=
 to
>>> me..
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fda=
tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9l=
iviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide
>>> two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribute=
d
>>> mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any
>>> flooding topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The
>>> former proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in
>>> the distributed mode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each othe=
r
>>> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
>>> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solve=
d.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
>>> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
>>> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
>>> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally prop=
osed
>>> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
>>> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so
>>> the solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
>>> specification flow nicely.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
>>> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that =
from
>>> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples=
 but
>>> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have=
 separate
>>> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorit=
hm
>>> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
>>> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
>>> distributed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
>>> distributed algorithm see below
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding-05#section-6.4>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>>>
>>>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV..  In order for Dynamic
>>>
>>>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>>>
>>>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>>>
>>>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>>>
>>>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>>>
>>>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>>>
>>>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and ol=
d
>>>
>>>    flooding topologies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>>>
>>>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>>>
>>>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>>>
>>>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>>>
>>>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>>>
>>>    destabilizing the network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding-05#section-6.5>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leade=
r
>>>
>>>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>>>
>>>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>>>
>>>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>>
>>>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>>>
>>>    defined by the protocol.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>>
>>>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes b=
y
>>>
>>>    the Area Leader.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>>>
>>>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the respon=
sibility of the
>>>
>>> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common =
understanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Former =3D WG LC
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-0=
8
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
>>> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Separate question-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
>>> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserve=
d
>>> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
>>> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
>>> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Huaimo
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.=
org
>>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with
>>> [HC].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Huaimo
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
>>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.=
org
>>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Huaimo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for
>>> densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to
>>> accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>>>
>>> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic
>>> flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly
>>> the same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>>>
>>> [HC]: It seems different.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the featur=
e
>>> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-s=
eries-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-s=
eries-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%4=
0futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1=
d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2B=
zH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
>>> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>>>
>>> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
>>> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
>>> algorithm..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operator=
s
>>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would hav=
ing
>>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing=
 to
>>> me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fda=
tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9l=
iviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
>>> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
>>> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It c=
an
>>> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flood=
ing
>>> topology.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Huaimo
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
>>> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
>>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
>>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
>>> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
>>> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
>>> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
>>> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mod=
e
>>> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes th=
e
>>> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
>>> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
>>> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall l=
ink
>>> state routing protocol convergence.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote=
:
>>>
>>> Support it as a co-author.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Yanhe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the
>>> =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please=
 issue your support
>>> or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a
>>> URL for your convenience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fda=
tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQI=
UtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40future=
wei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fe=
dc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2=
FBjEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>>
>>> *Gyan
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>Mishra*
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Network
>>> Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilve=
r%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3X=
EmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilve=
r%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BA=
qy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>13101
>>> Columbia Pike
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilve=
r%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp=
5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilve=
r%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkq=
FbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Error! Filename not specified.* <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--000000000000863e2305a633d200
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Hi,=
 Gyan,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">I presented=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm=
-00.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-=
flooding-algorithm-00.html</a>=C2=A0in the last IETF. You may find the slid=
es below helpful in understanding the algorithm:</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-size:small"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/int=
erim-2020-lsr-01/materials/slides-interim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flood=
ing-algo-sarah.pdf">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-lsr-0=
1/materials/slides-interim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flooding-algo-sarah.=
pdf</a></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Thanks,</div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Sarah</div></div><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 2=
1, 2020 at 7:32 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I see the diagrams A=
ppendix A - =C2=A0reviewing=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">G=
yan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:13 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stic=
k diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts are hard to fo=
llow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples. =C2=
=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies=
 - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - re=
al world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared=
?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">That would help.=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-red=
uction-08</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=C2=A0</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=3D"box-sizing:b=
order-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace;fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;line-he=
ight:1.12;word-break:break-all;border:0px;border-radius:4px;background-colo=
r:white">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and star=
ts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work le=
ft to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each=
 node B with directly attached node R via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B fr=
om Cq until the FT is build for all nodes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a=
 wide diameter FT matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=
=3D1 and go node by node.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">4.2=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Mon=
aco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;border:0px;border-radius:4px=
;background-color:white">1.  Finding and removing the first element with no=
de A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connec=
ted nodes=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-0=
0.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My interpreta=
tion of the algorithm from the verbiage.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is =
geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that cou=
ld be leaf connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iter=
atively build out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or lea=
f spine leaf.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regar=
ds=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started r=
eviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any =
particular dates in the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=
=9D than an =E2=80=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the que=
stions I have so if all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft movi=
ng forward as flood reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both dra=
fts will really help large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spi=
ne leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally wit=
h a large spine footprint - this is a
 much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of th=
e workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous compl=
exity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the other recently presented dynamic floodin=
g draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ch=
en-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You can see they both make use of the dynamic floodi=
ng infra in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,=
204)"></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width=
:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea=
 to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusag=
sm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0Gyan&gt; How does this dra=
ft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two =
eventual standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing featu=
res for optimized flood reduction. Would having two
 flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reducti=
on feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2=
Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futu=
rewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu=
5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft p=
lus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two modes of flooding redu=
ctions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode). The latter describes =
the two modes, but does not include any flooding
 topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former propos=
es a=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:white">flooding topology computat=
ion algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference =
each other as to how they play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any pr=
ovide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being s=
olved. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first
 to be formally proposed in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presen=
ted during the LSR virtual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall spe=
cification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe
 it might we wise to have separate draft for both and have references linki=
ng together as the same algorithm concept and mathematically however the ac=
tual code implementation would vary as the LSDB link state data structures =
are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.4" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
..=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;bo=
rder-radius:4px;overflow:auto;font-family:monospace;background-color:white"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:blac=
k">network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common u=
nderstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.</span><u style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;bo=
rder-radius:4px;overflow:auto;font-family:monospace;background-color:white"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:blac=
k">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fam=
ily:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-redu=
ction-08" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-=
lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm
 range of values is completely separate since a different function then fle=
x algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-0=
7" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-f=
lex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293=
921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293=
921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293=
921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490di=
vRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-=
9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD94=
40Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;color:black">The feature appear=
s implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs&quot;, which doe=
s not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..=C2=A0</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for f=
lood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the op=
erators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood reduction. =
Would having two flood reduction features standardized
 versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.=
=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd94720=
1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=
=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding Topology Comput=
ation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding
 on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data cente=
r clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the =
area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293=
921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_=
m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabus=
agsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flooding algo=
rithm mentioned in centralized mode the
 flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=
=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the algorithm =
and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algorithm. =
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.=
=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state =
routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-s=
ystems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60=
df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%=
2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzN=
xb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327633988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%=
0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Soluti=
ons Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327663981&amp;sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKv=
vOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327673971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>=
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVh=
M3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327693961&amp;sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327693961&amp;sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN=
-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;=
border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-righ=
t:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid=
 windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error=
! Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decorati=
on:none;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pad=
ding:0in;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-36772590841444=
80752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image r=
emoved by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18p=
x; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-fami=
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:36:32 -0400
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To: Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Great Thanks Sarah!!

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:59 PM Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com> wrote:

> Hi, Gyan,
>
> I presented
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html=
 in
> the last IETF. You may find the slides below helpful in understanding the
> algorithm:
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-lsr-01/materials/slides=
-interim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flooding-algo-sarah.pdf
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:32 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>>
>> I see the diagrams Appendix A -  reviewing
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:13 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>>> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
>>> minimum.
>>>
>>> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
>>> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>>>
>>> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
>>> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>>>
>>> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
>>>
>>> That would help.
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-0=
8
>>>
>>> 4.1
>>>
>>> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>>>
>>> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>>>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node =
R
>>>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>>>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>>>
>>> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with an=
y
>>> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to ri=
ght
>>> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
>>> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until th=
e FT
>>> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
>>> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go no=
de by
>>> node.
>>>
>>> 4.2
>>>
>>> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>>>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD=
.
>>>
>>>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>>>
>>>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH=
's
>>>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>>>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add =
A
>>>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>>>
>>>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>>>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>>>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>>>
>>> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected
>>> nodes
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.ht=
ml
>>>
>>> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>>>
>>> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared toward=
s
>>> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>>>
>>> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to
>>> two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out th=
e FT
>>> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
>>>> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
>>>> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
>>>> lsr@ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in
>>>> the discussion for this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be
>>>> helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the
>>>> archives then I am all set.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
>>>> feature.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with
>>>> any overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topolo=
gy
>>>> that scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a =
much
>>>> much needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the
>>>> workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous
>>>> complexity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algor=
ithm/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gyan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good=
 idea to
>>>> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
>>>> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>>> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.co=
m>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks much for your questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>>>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operato=
rs
>>>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would ha=
ving
>>>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>>>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusin=
g to
>>>> me..
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9=
liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide
>>>> two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribut=
ed
>>>> mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any
>>>> flooding topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The
>>>> former proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used
>>>> in the distributed mode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each
>>>> other as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide=
 a
>>>> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solv=
ed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-floodin=
g
>>>> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
>>>> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
>>>> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally pro=
posed
>>>> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
>>>> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so
>>>> the solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overal=
l
>>>> specification flow nicely.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
>>>> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that=
 from
>>>> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apple=
s but
>>>> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to hav=
e separate
>>>> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algori=
thm
>>>> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation woul=
d
>>>> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
>>>> distributed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
>>>> distributed algorithm see below
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *6.4 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding-05#section-6.4>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>>>>
>>>>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV..  In order for Dynamic
>>>>
>>>>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a floodin=
g
>>>>
>>>>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>>>>
>>>>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the networ=
k
>>>>
>>>>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>>>>
>>>>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>>>>
>>>>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and o=
ld
>>>>
>>>>    flooding topologies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise =
a
>>>>
>>>>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>>>>
>>>>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>>>>
>>>>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>>>>
>>>>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>>>>
>>>>    destabilizing the network.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *6.5 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding-05#section-6.5>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Lead=
er
>>>>
>>>>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and th=
e
>>>>
>>>>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>>>>
>>>>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>>>
>>>>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>>>>
>>>>    defined by the protocol.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>>>
>>>>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes =
by
>>>>
>>>>    the Area Leader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>>>>
>>>>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the respo=
nsibility of the
>>>>
>>>> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common=
 understanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Former =3D WG LC
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-=
08
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
>>>> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Separate question-
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
>>>> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserv=
ed
>>>> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints =
I
>>>> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values i=
s
>>>> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Huaimo
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
>>>> lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.co=
m>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with
>>>> [HC].
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Huaimo
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
>>>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>>>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
>>>> lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Huaimo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for
>>>> densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to
>>>> accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>>>>
>>>> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic
>>>> flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly
>>>> the same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>>>>
>>>> [HC]: It seems different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the
>>>> feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the=
 IETF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-=
series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-=
series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%=
40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD9440Ihj1bKPWl%2=
BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensur=
e
>>>> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>>>>
>>>> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
>>>> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
>>>> algorithm..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>>>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operato=
rs
>>>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would ha=
ving
>>>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>>>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusin=
g to
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9=
liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gyan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.co=
m>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gyan,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
>>>> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies fo=
r
>>>> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It =
can
>>>> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floo=
ding
>>>> topology.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Huaimo
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>>>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
>>>> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
>>>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
>>>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used i=
n
>>>> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where th=
e
>>>> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic floodin=
g
>>>> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by th=
e
>>>> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mo=
de
>>>> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes t=
he
>>>> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
>>>> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
>>>> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall =
link
>>>> state routing protocol convergence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gyan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Support it as a co-author.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Yanhe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>>>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the
>>>> =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Pleas=
e issue your support
>>>> or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is
>>>> a URL for your convenience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fd=
atatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327614000&sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQ=
IUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%2FLg%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>
>>>> https://www..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futur=
ewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591f=
edc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAlvbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%=
2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544b=
a4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668=
6327633988&sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+S=
ilver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>Mishra*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+S=
ilver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Network
>>>> Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilv=
er%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.ch=
en%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt4p2yDXi%2Fqm3=
XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%=
0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilv=
er%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.ch=
en%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327663981&sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0B=
Aqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKvvOH4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%=
0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544b=
a4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668=
6327673971&sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&reserve=
d=3D0>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>>
>>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+S=
ilver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>13101
>>>> Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilv=
er%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.ch=
en%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&sdata=3D2sVGWVhM3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGf=
p5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%=
0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilv=
er%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.ch=
en%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327693961&sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhk=
qFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%=
0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544b=
a4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725668=
6327693961&sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>>
>>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Error! Filename not specified.* <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>>
>>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>>
>>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+S=
ilver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
>>> Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+S=
ilver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
>> Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000008b54e005a63456b6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Great Thanks Sarah!!</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:59 PM Sar=
ah Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sarahchen@arista.com">sarahchen@arista.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Hi, Gyan,</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-size:small">I presented=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.=
ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.=
html</a>=C2=A0in the last IETF. You may find the slides below helpful in un=
derstanding the algorithm:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small=
"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-lsr-01/mater=
ials/slides-interim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flooding-algo-sarah.pdf" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-lsr-01/ma=
terials/slides-interim-2020-lsr-01-sessa-2-dynamic-flooding-algo-sarah.pdf<=
/a></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Thanks,</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Sarah</div></div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:32 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">I see the diagrams Appendix A - =C2=A0reviewing=C2=A0</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 10:1=
3 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div></div></div></blockquote=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to ha=
ve a stick diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts are h=
ard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology exam=
ples. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Four main t=
opologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 t=
ier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topolo=
gy shared?=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">That wo=
uld help.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-0=
8" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flo=
oding-reduction-08</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=
=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=3D"box=
-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,mon=
ospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0p=
x;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;border:0px;border-radius:4px;backgr=
ound-color:white">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to max=
imum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and star=
ts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work le=
ft to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each=
 node B with directly attached node R via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B fr=
om Cq until the FT is build for all nodes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a=
 wide diameter FT matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=
=3D1 and go node by node.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">4.2=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><pre style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Mon=
aco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;border:0px;border-radius:4px=
;background-color:white">1.  Finding and removing the first element with no=
de A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connec=
ted nodes=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-0=
0.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My interpreta=
tion of the algorithm from the verbiage.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is =
geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that cou=
ld be leaf connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iter=
atively build out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or lea=
f spine leaf.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind regar=
ds=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div></blo=
ckquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu=
, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote>=
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started r=
eviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any =
particular dates in the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=
=9D than an =E2=80=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the que=
stions I have so if all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft movi=
ng forward as flood reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both dra=
fts will really help large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spi=
ne leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally wit=
h a large spine footprint - this is a
 much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of th=
e workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous compl=
exity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the other recently presented dynamic floodin=
g draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ch=
en-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You can see they both make use of the dynamic floodi=
ng infra in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,=
204)"></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></block=
quote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><d=
iv><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-=
left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></=
div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none =
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margi=
n-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea=
 to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusag=
sm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-=
US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;b=
order-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right=
:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none =
none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><d=
iv>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none =
none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;=
margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><b=
lockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,=
204,204)">
<div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D=
"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)=
"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none soli=
d;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;bo=
rder-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><=
/div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"bord=
er-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt=
;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><di=
v><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;bor=
der-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0Gyan&gt; How does this dra=
ft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two =
eventual standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing featu=
res for optimized flood reduction. Would having two
 flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reducti=
on feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2=
Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futu=
rewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu=
5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft p=
lus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two modes of flooding redu=
ctions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode). The latter describes =
the two modes, but does not include any flooding
 topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former propos=
es a=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:white">flooding topology computat=
ion algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference =
each other as to how they play together or =C2=A0in some respects if any pr=
ovide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being s=
olved. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first
 to be formally proposed in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presen=
ted during the LSR virtual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This will also make the overall spe=
cification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe
 it might we wise to have separate draft for both and have references linki=
ng together as the same algorithm concept and mathematically however the ac=
tual code implementation would vary as the LSDB link state data structures =
are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.4" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
..=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre></div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote>=
</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><di=
v><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-w=
idth:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D=
"_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</sp=
an></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;bo=
rder-radius:4px;overflow:auto;font-family:monospace;background-color:white"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:blac=
k">network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common u=
nderstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.</span><u style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;bo=
rder-radius:4px;overflow:auto;font-family:monospace;background-color:white"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:blac=
k">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fam=
ily:monospace"></u></pre>
</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none=
 none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:=
4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><=
div><div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div=
></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-s=
tyle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;mar=
gin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><d=
iv><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-redu=
ction-08" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-=
lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm
 range of values is completely separate since a different function then fle=
x algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-0=
7" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-f=
lex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none =
none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;=
margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div></=
div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></block=
quote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><d=
iv><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-=
left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_6235694016151345864gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_6489548653197=
51832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRp=
lyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_6235694016151345864gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_6489548653197=
51832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRp=
lyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for yo=
ur questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_6235694016151345864gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_6489548653197=
51832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-=
2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-=
9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=3DCPEu2451qkfD94=
40Ihj1bKPWl%2BzH%2BiuYUwuWpfzR%2B0Q%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;color:black">The feature appear=
s implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs&quot;, which doe=
s not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..=C2=A0</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for f=
lood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the op=
erators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood reduction. =
Would having two flood reduction features standardized
 versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.=
=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd94720=
1%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327604003&amp;sdata=
=3DTGrkecn6m9liviazX7qqPglGqYEWu5Ekg2FRIaDpBZ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.c=
hen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,san=
s-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding Topology Comput=
ation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding
 on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data cente=
r clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the =
area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-a=
lign:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_6235694016151345864gmail-m_-3677259084144480752m_6489548653197=
51832m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-=
2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black">=
 Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabus=
agsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote>=
</div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><di=
v><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-w=
idth:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></di=
v></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width=
:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-st=
yle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;marg=
in:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><di=
v><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-w=
idth:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-sty=
le:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margi=
n:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0 In the dynamic flooding algo=
rithm mentioned in centralized mode the
 flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=
=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the algorithm =
and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algorithm. =
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.=
=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state =
routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div>=
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style=
:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:=
5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><=
div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-widt=
h:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:=
none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5=
pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div></=
div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquo=
te></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div=
></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><di=
v><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:=
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-sty=
le:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margi=
n:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div=
><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-wi=
dth:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-styl=
e:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin=
:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-s=
ystems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></b=
lockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><=
div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-widt=
h:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-lef=
t-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-s=
tyle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;mar=
gin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-=
width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-colo=
r:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-st=
yle:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;marg=
in:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><di=
v><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:=
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(=
204,204,204)"></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div=
></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote>=
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none =
none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;=
margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><b=
lockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;=
padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,=
204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none n=
one none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in=
 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none no=
ne solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4=
.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60=
df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637256686327614000&amp;sdata=3DFkKUWXneiQIUtjkGB6RITfo0vAt2qhkwDWB%2BghP7%=
2FLg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><=
/div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></b=
lockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US=
"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;bor=
der-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0=
in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div=
><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid=
;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;bor=
der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=
=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in=
 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>=
<div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;borde=
r-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"=
></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"=
EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none soli=
d;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-ri=
ght:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote=
 style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0=
in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"=
><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none =
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8p=
t;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;=
border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;bord=
er-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:1in">
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
</p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></di=
v></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div=
></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"E=
N-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid=
;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-rig=
ht:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none s=
olid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt=
;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><=
div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;b=
order-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;borde=
r-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:=
1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaim=
o.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327623992&amp;sdata=3DtyEhpdkwdbAVJqAl=
vbfzNxb7n1qLGrrEZ%2FBjEKa9rVs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https:=
//www..ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a></p></blockquote></div></div></div>=
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></=
div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockqu=
ote></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><blockquote st=
yle=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in =
0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none non=
e solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.=
8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquot=
e style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:=
0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)=
"><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none=
 solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8=
pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><bl=
ockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;p=
adding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327633988&amp;sdata=3Dii1nTDHCkuMU0AfaMkLjY6N2ww2STRdJBbhHozWSL9I%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%=
0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Arial,s=
ans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Soluti=
ons Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327653980&amp;sdata=3DTYHrbd1wDXt=
4p2yDXi%2Fqm3XEmjK4V7zu3caXeNJFthU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A=
+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;sour=
ce=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327663981&amp;sdata=3D5b0tVVJLdEO9%2FuAksAsc0BAqy%2F%2F%2BE7EBPjRlkKv=
vOH4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://www.goo=
gle.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327673971&amp;sdata=3DBbk8qEHi1RU7J1x%2FNP11v8CYcnDLszZQiNRLmklSDOY%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>=
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686327683966&amp;sdata=3D2sVGWVh=
M3Sbk84D2ZyaCYUGfp5wDLt8U8uLpgMJuwSU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A=
+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;sour=
ce=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df27=
4544ba4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
256686327693961&amp;sdata=3DOQccpoFntfT0LMaEVNaWmGhkqFbTKJLWu4PIlTuKFoA%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C60df274544ba=
4b75447f08d7fd947201%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256686=
327693961&amp;sdata=3DzKzhCcHJbUpzdvulN4y1N92e6KJKAEqHvdF5KDKJKH8%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN=
-US"><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;=
border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-righ=
t:0in;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div><div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entr=
y=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2=
%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid=
 windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error=
! Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entr=
y=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2=
%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decorati=
on:none;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pad=
ding:0in;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width:0.8437in;height:0.1875in" id=3D"m_6235694016151345864gmail-=
m_-3677259084144480752m_648954865319751832m_-3104503748293921115_x0000_i102=
5" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entr=
y=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2=
%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0=
+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike=
</a>=C2=A0<br></font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/1310=
1+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3D=
g">Silver Spring, MD</a></p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0=
+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike=
</a>=C2=A0<br></font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/1310=
1+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3D=
g">Silver Spring, MD</a></p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your suggestion.

    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other a=
s to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a homogeneo=
us complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.

[HC]: I will add the reference in the draft.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 1:51 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <l=
sr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions.

 Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction. =
 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  or c=
ompeting features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood red=
uction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature=
 be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&sdata=3D4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%=
2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&reserved=3D0>

    [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two =
modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode).=
 The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding topo=
logy computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a =
flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.

   Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as=
 to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a homogeneou=
s complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.

In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall specific=
ation flow nicely.

I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=92s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft=
 for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm concep=
t and mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as t=
he LSDB link state data structures are completely different.

Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&sdata=3D4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%=
2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&reserved=3D0>

This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below


6.4<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba60=
8d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824703852=
&sdata=3DFvMPjTxl622QWR0mgEZFUlnwM5rGlRKKdTWSTjPXcBs%3D&reserved=3D0>.  Are=
a Leader Responsibilities

   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
   flooding topologies.

   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.

   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.

   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
   destabilizing the network.

6.5<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba60=
8d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824703852=
&sdata=3D9IDNZX2%2F5FTACbaHZd4faYuNVCx5LXaSjlJUc409ocU%3D&reserved=3D0>.  D=
istributed Flooding Topology Calculation

   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
   flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
   defined by the protocol.

   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
   the Area Leader.

   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsibi=
lity of the

network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common unde=
rstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.


Former =3D WG LC
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sdata=3DZqopm1yqpqM=
1ZD7ObT0BFMIUSJd0iT6Ri2b6vStCJCo%3D&reserved=3D0>

Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft

Separate question-

In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely sepa=
rate since a different function then flex algo values.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sdata=3DMOIfltBuiViPgsuRYDxQ5lDQj=
IRjP%2BojrhcVN8hwOPI%3D&reserved=3D0>


Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM

To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Huaimo

This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.
[HC]: Thank you very much.

Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.

Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.
[HC]: It seems different.

There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7=
fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&sd=
ata=3DPm51EVp6O2zpw30mvKMJPh6HsoYQbwVzSYOubRRBVq0%3D&reserved=3D0>

We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Grap=
hs", which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm.

    Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reductio=
n.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  o=
r competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood =
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feat=
ure be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824723756&sdata=3DRyLoLJDPfL16ZPZF5qzbHZjMT=
dmemUWu468jtQh9l2k%3D&reserved=3D0>

Kind regards

Gyan


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thank you very much for your questions and support.

    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.

Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.

This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.

Gyan

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824723756&sdata=3D8fExZMtHNTeVuZkWgp25GiSyI=
nqOm8M3OAcmG%2B8cWtc%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
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Network Solutions Architect

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Gyan Mishra

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

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Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
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--_000_MN2PR13MB31175080DCB1F7FBC8658965F2B40MN2PR13MB3117namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your suggestion.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference=
 each other as to how they play together or &nbsp;in some respects if any p=
rovide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being =
solved.
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
[HC]: I will add the reference in the draft.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; ls=
r@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!important; border-color:rgb(0,=
0,0)!important; color:rgb(0,0,0)!important">
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!import=
ant; border-color:rgb(0,0,0)!important; color:rgb(0,0,0)!important">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Hu=
aimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futu=
rewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span=
>Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reductio=
n.&nbsp; Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolb=
ox &nbsp;or competing features for optimized flood reduction.
 Would having two flood reduction features standardized versus one default =
IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.&nbsp; Just as it wa=
s confusing to me.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">
<div style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><=
a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&amp;sdata=
=3D4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" ori=
ginalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/" shash=3D"gu0qb1U6YjvZmBmlIawrs0W95Y3mqI0HqxjKhpXZjj0E7ysqNJyPXoviTYLhJG=
2YZwQV/HUpQhFLf28x6vOjLpoXDcq63&#43;awlFEysrPcN95rGzLeTKD37JxPz9GJE1ftXc4F5=
3re12Kq6RMtKj0nvoNDhyOTD2jj0V835WaqoM4=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"margi=
n:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,s=
ans-serif">
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<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">
<span style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; =
display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; display=
:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"margin:0px; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,=
sans-serif">
<br style=3D"color:rgb(50,49,48); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&nbsp; &nbsp; [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can pr=
ovide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribu=
ted mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flo=
oding topology computation algorithm for the
 distributed mode. The former proposes a&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; display:inline!important; background-colo=
r:rgb(255,255,255)">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in t=
he distributed mode.&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for both docum=
ents to reference each other as to how they play together or &nbsp;in some =
respects if any provide a homogeneous complete holistic solution for floodi=
ng problem being solved. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine bo=
th drafts so the solution is complete and holistic.&nbsp; This will also ma=
ke the overall specification flow nicely. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP=
 solution, however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSP=
F that from IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples t=
o apples but really it=92s apples and
 oranges.&nbsp; Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft for both and =
have references linking together as the same algorithm concept and mathemat=
ically however the actual code implementation would vary as the LSDB link s=
tate data structures are completely different.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader=
 based and distributed&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fd=
af9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824693892&amp;=
sdata=3D4vWmUdR%2BbXWXgjyBAw62Ig%2BxUyKPuq6uucKbrfbNv5w%3D&amp;reserved=3D0=
" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding/" shash=3D"gu0qb1U6YjvZmBmlIawrs0W95Y3mqI0HqxjKhpXZjj0E7ysqNJyPXoviT=
YLhJG2YZwQV/HUpQhFLf28x6vOjLpoXDcq63&#43;awlFEysrPcN95rGzLeTKD37JxPz9GJE1ft=
Xc4F53re12Kq6RMtKj0nvoNDhyOTD2jj0V835WaqoM4=3D">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This later draft per section excerpt provides both centra=
lized and distributed algorithm see below&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0)!important; border=
-color:rgb(0,0,0)!important; color:rgb(0,0,0)!important">
<pre class=3D"x_newpage" style=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,mo=
nospace; box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0p=
x 0px 1em; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:=
break-all; word-wrap:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; bo=
rder-top-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-le=
ft-radius:4px; background-color:white"><span class=3D"x_h3" style=3D"box-si=
zing:border-box; font-family:monospace; font-weight:bold; line-height:0pt; =
margin-top:21px; margin-bottom:10.5px; font-size:1em; display:inline; color=
:inherit"><a class=3D"x_selflink" id=3D"x_section-6.4" href=3D"https://nam1=
1.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.or=
g%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23section-6.4&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824703852&amp;sdata=
=3DFvMPjTxl622QWR0mgEZFUlnwM5rGlRKKdTWSTjPXcBs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" origina=
lsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-05#section-6.4" shash=3D"KwjcrEKktP9tb9MLYT/e2&#43;lNdvgBD5DpM5i6Hf22oGn=
s/TRN7EYHWsr&#43;P5gQVyANbanXBPfgN1/5IQcrVtSBdieKuGS5vBFwngTng3PtJtN21NciFF=
Ar2LGWhsN6rAFmAtCmR6sARKQzjpYj&#43;x1weODHMKWhnGnQBuPLk9ETtVg=3D" style=3D"=
box-sizing:border-box; font-family:monospace; background-color:transparent;=
 color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</a>.  Area Leader Responsibilities</span>=0A=
=0A=
   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise=0A=
   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic=0A=
   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding=0A=
   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding=0A=
   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network=0A=
   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader=0A=
   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding=0A=
   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old=0A=
   flooding topologies.=0A=
=0A=
   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a=0A=
   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.=0A=
=0A=
   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-=0A=
   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is=0A=
   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader=0A=
   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.=0A=
=0A=
   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks=0A=
   destabilizing the network.=0A=
=0A=
<span class=3D"x_h3" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; font-family:monospace;=
 font-weight:bold; line-height:0pt; margin-top:21px; margin-bottom:10.5px; =
font-size:1em; display:inline; color:inherit"><a class=3D"x_selflink" id=3D=
"x_section-6.5" href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637256802824703852&amp;sdata=3D9IDNZX2%2F5FTACbaHZd4faYuNVCx5LXaSjlJU=
c409ocU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" shash=3D"hFMNVBhIO/I=
0dI/bRwdiEocvGPuJxOI98F1CP7/Tnvyg&#43;Pg2aDqHE6drMECZokretzWGgHSz9wkTAqfNpy=
91&#43;6stEg61wL0qth5j7HjXaWVjXYWn4U3vGfnKrh044mOt0OWllmuF&#43;&#43;hQKGrQ/=
jbMjGJvrtve2u8NuVi1vI4WZDU=3D" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; font-family:=
monospace; background-color:transparent; color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</a>.  Di=
stributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span>=0A=
=0A=
   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader=0A=
   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the=0A=
   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the=0A=
   flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.=0A=
=0A=
   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the=0A=
   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as=0A=
   defined by the protocol.=0A=
=0A=
   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the=0A=
   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by=0A=
   the Area Leader.=0A=
=0A=
   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from=0A=
   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the <span styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt">re=
sponsibility of the&nbsp;</span></pre>
<pre class=3D"x_newpage" style=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,mo=
nospace; box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0p=
x 0px 1em; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:=
break-all; word-wrap:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; bo=
rder-top-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-le=
ft-radius:4px; background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&qu=
ot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace">the area have a common understanding of =
what the given algorithm </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace">value represents.</span></pre>
<pre class=3D"x_newpage" style=3D"font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,mo=
nospace; box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0p=
x 0px 1em; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:=
break-all; word-wrap:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; bo=
rder-top-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-le=
ft-radius:4px; background-color:white"><br></pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Former =3D WG LC&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba=
608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372568028247137=
98&amp;sdata=3DZqopm1yqpqM1ZD7ObT0BFMIUSJd0iT6Ri2b6vStCJCo%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flo=
oding-reduction-08" shash=3D"DCvlu6DYXdmhEmEC8L&#43;SdboqwSN36t5wWBVaCTJydC=
ZDWPMA5889uKLLWtNCmLkSyLTqgl0FBD0/yha4p4VQTG&#43;9UjAvDJXQVv8RI/aCWFMZjaskD=
E04h&#43;PUirzbOquVJ25fXcZE4YJMP3ebBlk5WbCEX/aOq1UVb2G&#43;Nf63wa4=3D">http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a></d=
iv>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as=
 well as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic floodi=
ng draft&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Separate question-</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the=
 bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints =
reserved for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoi=
nts I believe 0-127.&nbsp; I would think
 the flooding algorithm range of values is completely separate since a diff=
erent function then flex algo values.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fd=
af9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&amp;=
sdata=3DMOIfltBuiViPgsuRYDxQ5lDQjIRjP%2BojrhcVN8hwOPI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" =
originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-al=
go-07" shash=3D"gHmQKir0dzfvvEJfmZtwpIFA20cPz6ejYb4aG9JnHNgMet/70fwvGly83S5=
mHO3bFgdCtSikxoxGhzHkWHBT7aONgFnFA0aAagInGMnI2VHU9RVuYfD3Sfb64HoiYh2BKve0Wv=
X2Gociyt&#43;xxjX0SHbFmjkX4a&#43;eKOTDvRzrfPk=3D">https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D=
"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b>=
 Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
 style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:36 AM</font></div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D=
"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below w=
ith [HC].</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490appendonsend"></=
div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg" d=
ir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if">From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 20=
20 11:14 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Huaimo&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is a much needed feature that operators have been ne=
eding for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to =
accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: Thank you very much.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for=
 dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Please look at the feature description and it does seem t=
o be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please confirm.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It seems different.&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to =
get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with =
the IETF.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824713798&amp;sdata=3DPm51EVp6O=
2zpw30mvKMJPh6HsoYQbwVzSYOubRRBVq0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-sw=
itches/white-paper-c11-743015.html" shash=3D"UmouTPTc8MrpWGVOMyNGFpwsGh4grP=
2LCAYU1eP5xuhmwZPv8&#43;4FObqEVqIM8zRcaUn4Ukm0OW9QzbG1BwI6PtXDmC13cN&#43;NF=
nJWoKTNWeQBeLkMOUD7rLf9q9Q8Ha8gFrVb9DHcbK88MhaMO3FSADZbSVWmHbpafEN1D6hBFGs=
=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/sw=
itches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wa=
nted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.</=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: <span style=3D"display:inline!important; background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
.&nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the=
 WG LC draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Would they be two eventual standard=
 options in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or competing features for optimized=
 flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features
 standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing f=
or operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing to me.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&am=
p;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fd=
af9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824723756&amp;=
sdata=3DRyLoLJDPfL16ZPZF5qzbHZjMTdmemUWu468jtQh9l2k%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" or=
iginalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng/" shash=3D"Xl4nKHkyfXPMkwz6NYmTYDCqYb5trxtjlHHbbfNjVHxaB60eBEqo2zO8DUTEP=
B21noKwzZmsfWOv/UsYTg8B&#43;dtGuh&#43;Z/k78W5h6YHJ9TT5htNSlzd7lpphch6UtWyrl=
d0o27LJyrbgF&#43;ovAovn5Ax8wQ7KdtXYc/ovF4K9pN9g=3D" target=3D"_blank">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"display:inline!important; background-color=
:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><span style=3D"display:inline!important; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Hi G=
yan,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; Thank you very much for your questions and support.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">&nbs=
p; &nbsp; This F</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-seri=
f; font-size:12pt; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,2=
55); color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">Topology Computation
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(5=
0,49,48)">algorithm can be used in the D</span><span style=3D"font-family:C=
alibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; display:inline!important; background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255); color:rgb(50,49,48)"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,=
Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; display:inline!important; background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255)">ynamic
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the&nbsp;d=
ata center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be use=
d by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topolo=
gy. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Best=
 Regards,</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Huai=
mo</span></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_544306282462=
6953867divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if">From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020=
 2:39 AM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to=
 the draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding alg=
orithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP path=
s where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.&nbsp; In the dyn=
amic flooding algorithm mentioned in centralized
 mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distributed to all no=
des.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode the area leader determines the alg=
orithm and then each node computes the flooding topology based on the algor=
ithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction woul=
d reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or =
Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimization of flooding would improving ove=
rall link state routing protocol convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan&nbsp;</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG=
 adoption call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft.=
 Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on Ju=
ne 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL
 for your convenience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protec=
tion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc=
-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637256802824723756&amp;sdata=3D8fExZMtHNTeVuZkWgp25GiSyInqOm8M3OAcmG%=
2B8cWtc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"lw2JbOQOhydVaaGOvAWh0qaAsHkcyv=
HwqPxxYyOjgmNOj/XlCcG04Kt49FA2b//gcOdTfxMloixiqTlS4ElhN/U1Q1uyfSrqaj1K7uJBq=
Ihg79KH9EgghxuOdiGKMVM9Ck6q6mvgoZ9x0YXzrYidGgfDe2AJ/cQWpJeNd55NxzE=3D" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduct=
ion/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824733714&amp;sdata=3Dtsa4Ojxc3ylgeUecgkmfh=
2om5Yiff1PBuskEcI06zwg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" shash=3D"nQxJfVpynOubBFWdRhvTgk43TvOktnxQJF6fwtP=
GaefNra2fEeILxr02dv57PzL3nuTkoa/OFRCz0/UjuxJSeLCXVJ2nDhmc&#43;yetjjC1qrZKkR=
8n/yLAGWibPjeu4/b9Vi6kgMLw6vH/2r&#43;HC2HPG/KwASfX8/zigq8Ru/ULkx4=3D" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=
</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824743667&amp;sdata=3Dh47l%2FQYNn=
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4sXh3EZiY1Xz9XAyQi3uIm1JO28974PfYVVtyfRZPnSvKhnGcr48ABKyQQMGElfADXo9Ld/nVYL=
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t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
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p;source=3Dg" shash=3D"NfH6x9my7qQxH76x8zeixl6GoTr4/gUFNFAr8lrpexkGgzuxH07O=
nGKnZPLnaOHCOlxSP5HaFdzheB8Reuo9s55Gp/m7VBx6wxCFI9EKUBQ1r&#43;yQoam/PIU&#43=
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erif">Gyan<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3D=
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urce%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47b=
b3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824=
753624&amp;sdata=3D3IMpHFXLe3o2uWZUkGsx6qBNZVwojdx24VuAGlZHSB0%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;=
Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgm=
ail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"OmAlUOmGIY1sj4fMGOAUReVbuvHEvppe7F6DKJW2I1SBtj=
jC1lmntnV&#43;NOklyyskfP/euN963jfpduw3Nv8PTyhMoiLx5NMEMJ&#43;MrumuFmodb2UjS=
0wTwkNDw9h7HTmkJnS&#43;ltkZb6dRngGfX1UHLjj&#43;JZlTQvLqeqZ42e3XbuE=3D" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">
</a>Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em; font-family:georgia,serif; colo=
r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect&nbsp;</i></font=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824753624&amp;sdata=3DgT67YHrFxcy=
FOuAJJN7TNy4r6b95MwEhzRL5yAeqa%2FY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
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ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"e8TTRmxEH88=
Eh/N8lfQHoZ8L9TqQthUOEEFl8PAnE&#43;DkxU2/38Oiwlm5yXvXJ&#43;QmdrHpMuSL0Y4p17=
r3M2xkZuCX/t6RRZ77o/5x1W05P0BPyvsUQhnLQaQIlXfqNa06TWK/0v9Nou9fx4D9Evkr9&#43=
;NMKg0v/r&#43;W40oEiaqlH3U=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:georg=
ia,serif">13101
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</font></i><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824753624&amp;sdata=
=3DgT67YHrFxcyFOuAJJN7TNy4r6b95MwEhzRL5yAeqa%2FY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" origi=
nalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#4=
3;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=
=3D"e8TTRmxEH88Eh/N8lfQHoZ8L9TqQthUOEEFl8PAnE&#43;DkxU2/38Oiwlm5yXvXJ&#43;Q=
mdrHpMuSL0Y4p17r3M2xkZuCX/t6RRZ77o/5x1W05P0BPyvsUQhnLQaQIlXfqNa06TWK/0v9Nou=
9fx4D9Evkr9&#43;NMKg0v/r&#43;W40oEiaqlH3U=3D" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
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huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824763585&amp;sdata=3D09iR61WVYxs=
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RDWiMgLRm0pFEnrT1fe0ekSvGLqjzCEDsjk/Swxk5IvY7GHe2RumYxu9Kv/Lz5wcZ0nrWiKaKsr=
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r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
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F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
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mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7f=
daf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824773542&amp=
;sdata=3DR%2FgBETIY57llywOkt%2FPq014B2SQ3Ym7kN2%2F9ubP3%2FWI%3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Co=
lumbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmai=
l&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"gflwkT5KxFZ2v4vUzzvNGfi6KfOsJgwY1v&#43;G6B&#43;I=
A1OfIuF/B/K54yoAmXwcVuloUmHjLG8ieeUp/firGP3seijeTviJvSurJ17c2oH9XvwoJ1oAA1n=
gK8ZgAk4x1lso7NvdGj4mnb7dKvTKDBcU1maHKEWIBNq7ge4L9IP7hrU=3D"></a>
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ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>
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F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824773542&amp;sdata=3DMNku9GCzbL4=
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fgSXmyDnJakyENjlRvCUU1TK5D10WrB0AdJ1oyYt3qQTycWdL9FBO7LUBjkhlioQSSz8tW43mfn=
VHBZQ&#43;FZykoNxsdscVbgslhuro78WD1M&#43;lo&#43;SndjerqgcDenlH7TzteuwNuzhDX=
7/X9jfsHffR&#43;1NJvNVjKwk=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:georg=
ia,serif">13101
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=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
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%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637256802824783499&amp;sdata=
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riginalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pik=
e&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" sh=
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<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
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ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
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40futurewei.com%7Ce0f4766963da47bb3ba608d7fdaf9134%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline belo=
w.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a minim=
um.
[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorithm is in Appendix.
I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow without=
 a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.

Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and=
 CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=92s.

>From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached.

That would help.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3DglKNEHI0pma=
vkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&reserved=3D0>

4.1

Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue


For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.

My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any no=
de in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to right or=
 vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with direct=
ly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the FT is bu=
ild for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching ph=
ysical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.
[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is an iterative loop aft=
er every node is added to FT. This loop connects each node whose D =3D 1 (i=
.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a link =
on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on FT to have its D > 1=
. Page 5 of the attached slides shows some details for this loop.

4.2


1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
          D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };

This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected nodes
[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html<h=
ttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf=
.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3D0%2B33ORq8C=
FVJuZjTNSQwvI1UjK6W8xdcz%2FlOXsYMTxc%3D&reserved=3D0>

My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.

So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards le=
af spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.

For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two s=
pines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT topo=
logy 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>, "lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call





Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the =
discussion for this.



If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful.



No =96 it was more an =93evolution=94 than an =93epiphany=94.



That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives th=
en I am all set.



I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed feat=
ure.



I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any ov=
erlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that sca=
les out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much much nee=
ded feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of usi=
ng BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.



Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/=
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm%2F&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C=
0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3DiCY2R=
DNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlhuHdsM0%3D&reserved=3D0>



You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://nam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%=
2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurew=
ei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrBoA2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes=
%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,

Acee









Kind regards



Gyan



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com>> wrote:

Speaking as WG Co-chair:



Hi Gyan,



I guess you=92ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea to re=
view the LSR mailing list archives.



From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>, "lsr@ietf.org<mail=
to:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call







On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thanks much for your questions.



 Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction. =
 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  or c=
ompeting features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood red=
uction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature=
 be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446391897&sdata=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNxUZ6LhjTbIJDT5=
gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&reserved=3D0>



    [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two =
modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode).=
 The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding topo=
logy computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a =
flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.



   Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as=
 to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a homogeneou=
s complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.



It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first to be formally proposed in a draft. Not=
e that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virtual interim which=
 replaced IETF 107.



In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall specific=
ation flow nicely.



No =96 we=92re not going to do this.



Thanks,

Acee



I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=92s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft=
 for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm concep=
t and mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as t=
he LSDB link state data structures are completely different.



Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446401884&sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFrye6L7vgdHjLIY5=
0hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE1QF0%3D&reserved=3D0>



This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below



6.4<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d20=
8d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446401884=
&sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZOF1UWxQE%3D&reserved=3D0>.  A=
rea Leader Responsibilities



   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise

   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic

   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding

   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding

   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network

   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader

   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding

   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old

   flooding topologies.



   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a

   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.



   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-

   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is

   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader

   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.



   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks

   destabilizing the network.



6.5<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d20=
8d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446411879=
&sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gMLUp%2BcVjB4%3D&reserved=3D0>=
.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation



   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader

   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the

   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the

   flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.



   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the

   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as

   defined by the protocol.



   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the

   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by

   the Area Leader.



   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from

   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsibi=
lity of the

network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common unde=
rstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.



Former =3D WG LC

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&sdata=3DkIqZH1iGc%2=
BVFx3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzHRKxp5Et4o%3D&reserved=3D0>



Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft



Separate question-



In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely sepa=
rate since a different function then flex algo values.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446421873&sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUATTDuUvKgFl9AtQ=
zuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM%3D&reserved=3D0>





Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM

To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call







On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].



Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



Huaimo



This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.

[HC]: Thank you very much.



Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.



Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.

[HC]: It seems different.



There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.



https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7=
fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446431887&sd=
ata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%2F2WGYtA7HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&reserved=3D0>



We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.

[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Grap=
hs", which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..



    Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reductio=
n.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  o=
r competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood =
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feat=
ure be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.





https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH8U3Fyb9Ejxjv%=
2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOLkZGO8FN4%3D&reserved=3D0>



Kind regards



Gyan





On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thank you very much for your questions and support.



    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.



Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call





I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.



Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.



This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.



Gyan



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQbkD0lpbQ8BfAjX=
ZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<https://nam11.safelinks.protectio=
n.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&=
data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5=
cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&sdata=
=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1ueJJeUuuMZsI3yTdsVkji8%3D&reserved=3D0>

--

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om/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40fu=
turewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chc=
eH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&reserved=3D0>

Gyan <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fw=
ww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%2=
50A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&sdata=3Db%=
2FrOXTZ8ayq5rzEPxpOlLuMfEvsw3FPbOVkqQUcnieQ%3D&reserved=3D0> Mishra

<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.go=
ogle.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7=
C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee=
8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&sdata=3DGLW4e%2BM=
cjf8oIZmuUXtgcfmzrB%2BBWqXsvDquWI492EU%3D&reserved=3D0>Network Solutions Ar=
chitect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dh=
ttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%25=
0D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&sdata=3Dpsm7wBWSK%=
2BEtFkhnb9B3soi0S6%2FrAXm%2FEXMoo6dnGKM%3D&reserved=3D0>
Silver Spring, MD<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D=
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M 301 502-1347
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Silver Spring, MD


--_000_MN2PR13MB31179DB87C96DA218F9EB1D0F2B40MN2PR13MB3117namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org &lt;=
lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick =
diagram at a minimum. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorit=
hm is in Appendix.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math &nbsp;minor and both drafts are=
 hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology ex=
amples. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf s=
pine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=92s.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That would help.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d=
208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044463719=
00&amp;sdata=3DglKNEHI0pmavkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction-08" shash=3D"oAVuWHrnZHJAQbAS3IsMMhDlvZw&#43;&#43;O7Eyoy=
r5v&#43;rJQtLK7E0SLxnTT/oTrmo5sZizeBfyZoVSfFpsiW86CzwL5qQqEx4nWs7GyYJGbWOvB=
rw2Pn9iJXK0KKDifPrI&#43;uKfyHfKExopNju2/3lj01X5QexPnHiLV6YYL6a6w20Noo=3D">h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a>=
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.1&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre class=3D"x_newpage" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; fon=
t-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0p=
x 0px 1em; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:=
break-all; word-wrap:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; bo=
rder-top-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-le=
ft-radius:4px; background-color:white">For each node B on FT whose D is one=
 (from minimum to maximum=0A=
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R=0A=
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and=0A=
       increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and =
starts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and wor=
k left to right or vice versa.&nbsp; For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with =
each node B with directly attached node R
 via link L.&nbsp; Increment node B from Cq until the FT is build for all n=
odes.&nbsp; Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching physical t=
opology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is&nbs=
p;<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (Wes=
t European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont,=
 Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255,=
 255, 255); display: inline !important">an
 iterative loop after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each no=
de whose D =3D 1 (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a n=
ode through a link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on F=
T to have its D &gt; 1. Page 5 of the
 attached slides shows some details for this loop.</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;S=
egoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, Bli=
nkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background=
-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.2&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre class=3D"x_newpage" style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; fon=
t-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0p=
x 0px 1em; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:=
break-all; word-wrap:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; bo=
rder-top-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-le=
ft-radius:4px; background-color:white">1.  Finding and removing the first e=
lement with node A in Cq that is=0A=
       not on FT and one PH's D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH's D &lt; PH's ConMa=
xD.=0A=
=0A=
       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT=0A=
=0A=
       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH'=
s=0A=
          D &lt; PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs=0A=
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH's D &lt; PH's ConMaxD), PH's D&#43;&#43;=
, and add A=0A=
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.=0A=
=0A=
       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the=0A=
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, &#43;&#43;Ma=
xD,=0A=
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directl=
y connected nodes&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
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PMfm1oakWypxO6xzRrYIsdfiTXXOgeQgFmCuOrzPObAdEx6bWJo&#43;BO9X6gTtm&#43;S3Ytc=
R6T08S3pDZblTJNHBDGN3TC5HHLcvteUwj/y3U75uqbgIPjSFXipHPzpcFU&#43;M=3D">https=
://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html</a></d=
iv>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is=
 geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf =
connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively bui=
ld out the FT topology 3 node arch &nbsp;spine leaf spine or leaf spine lea=
f.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Ace=
e Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font=
-size:12pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started=
 reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to an=
y particular dates in the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">No =96 it was more an =93evolution=94 than an =93e=
piphany=94. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the q=
uestions I have so if all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft mo=
ving forward as flood reduction is a much needed feature. &nbsp;<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both d=
rafts will really help large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan s=
pine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally w=
ith a large spine footprint - this is
 a much much needed feature.&nbsp; This also helps eliminate complexity of =
the workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous com=
plexity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Here is the other recently presented dynamic flood=
ing draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outl=
ook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dy=
namic-flooding-algorithm%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.co=
m%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C0%7C637257104446381892&amp;sdata=3DiCY2RDNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlh=
uHdsM0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc=
/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/" shash=3D"lVptdkAe3N&#43;YUdbbF=
UUH9UnBgtIQqBAohVZ6uwvSspuYdczg92SnlV&#43;16OZpqqJQ4XoceO7wHhRVrrVrr6IR/Kdi=
JDWq6GdfjvJrnjyDKwVKUFi/LxDFvvv5zw15IhDhZchCp42/cOXNR9WnC2TG56oMIVXCt5hPPbu=
wo2FgApg=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-=
lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">You can see they both make use of the dynamic floo=
ding infra in
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4=
e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&amp;sdata=
=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrBoA2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
 originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding/" shash=3D"zVKcKFGog4gaY5XvSgO0kewBks3SUVGowl&#43;ugISZXm3iw4w3s2Qgmy=
wQx3D1oPKOWCmzWaLhLZTSmSnGc82wEH03gArA70evVDtIvlBeRY5pEoEl29g2wec5CAEnVk8Cg=
/w1zHe2SVSIpbNVaEOTssc8A561M4wXvUV1gEA3HxA=3D" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards&nbsp;<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan&nbsp;<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 a=
t 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Speaking as WG Co-chai=
r:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u=
></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I guess you=92ve joine=
d this discussion late. It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing l=
ist archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt; color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at =
11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions.</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC=
 draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Would they be two eventual standard optio=
ns in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or competing features
 for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features s=
tandardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for=
 operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing to me.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76=
b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710=
4446391897&amp;sdata=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNxUZ6LhjTbIJDT5gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&amp;r=
eserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding/" shash=3D"PPC58jaCJCCOmvp1C079W7AMvmTzN0NfmJB/wEHMhkf2x8=
rwJx1DqaHLqMzuNHPSR3n/x6h1sxuUM/ZCcP21I8qIcTP3FDOW7GZJot2KowuPfHy4aXqVBZkzm=
g88TwsuYYhpHIFYsNUD4xDmR03fdqMfXrDfdAuCrN0bmjjVbjU=3D" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flood=
ing reduction can provide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centraliz=
ed mode and distributed mode). The latter describes
 the two modes, but does not include any flooding topology computation algo=
rithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a&nbsp;<span style=3D"b=
ackground-color:white">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used i=
n the distributed mode.&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; It=
 maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as to how the=
y play together or &nbsp;in some respects if any provide a homogeneous comp=
lete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
 &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is a good idea to h=
ave this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The e=
xisting dynamic flooding draft provides a framework for any dynamic floodin=
g algorithm that provides a separate
 flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propose=
d in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virt=
ual interim which replaced IETF 107. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">In my opinion it may not=
 be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the solution is complete and =
holistic.&nbsp; This will also make the overall specification flow nicely. =
&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">No =96 we=92re not goi=
ng to do this.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">I know that efforts were=
 made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however there are many inherent=
 differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspe=
ctive you can treat like apples to apples
 but really it=92s apples and oranges.&nbsp; Maybe it might we wise to have=
 separate draft for both and have references linking together as the same a=
lgorithm concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation =
would vary as the LSDB link state data
 structures are completely different.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Later =3D Dynamic floodi=
ng =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distributed&nbsp;<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11=
.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org=
%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446401884&amp;sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFrye6L7vgdHj=
LIY50hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE1QF0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" shash=3D"dKh&#43;baB=
r6LC&#43;Rr2m1AyX8nR6vnDrn5z4hN9Kd9nXi59CArRabm7TKUCSZhsEKkgEcTAvZVGfwz410u=
EfaoTD9XmEgv3YTy11cgTjp6bgBcWtRmTGw6D3slE5026H7TjFXIBUbNUfplPJ7rI/ZC79injlw=
7f2HXVWQishSKNKQqU=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">This later draft per sec=
tion excerpt provides both centralized and distributed algorithm see below&=
nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m2130119924=
291467262h3" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"font-family:monosp=
ace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:monospace; color:black"><=
a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%2=
3section-6.4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76=
b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710=
4446401884&amp;sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZOF1UWxQE%3D&amp=
;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-i=
etf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.4" shash=3D"ABXGirY51l&#43;h0hDocl7p3=
IAr0cIkJf5N3uV4IuEMQhEGwJ77JCAjVmAACBhE7&#43;a6Fw&#43;KFAMSycAWyZtYnJP7Sbsa=
tnYa9CHiVv9t2u1MOXxZ76LDag6Wltu289na1Ea5pFQAk4LDMG4P&#43;f1NHmE7jScXoaOdcT6=
5nQuN3ekCMjY=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace; color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span></a>.&nbsp; A=
rea Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-family:monosp=
ace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader operates in ce=
ntralized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Su=
b-TLV.&nbsp; In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Flooding to be enabled it also MU=
ST compute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology for the area.&nbsp; The =
Area Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology at any time, however, it=
 should not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; with undue or overly frequent top=
ology changes.&nbsp; If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; operates in centralized mode and =
needs to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology, it floods the new flood=
ing topology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; flooding topologies.</span><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader operates in di=
stributed mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; non-zero algorithm in its Area Le=
ader Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font=
-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; When the Area Leader advertises a=
lgorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; TLV and does not advertise a floo=
ding topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; disabled for the area.&nbsp; Note=
 this applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospa=
ce"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; intends to operate in centralized=
 mode or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Note that once Dynamic Flooding i=
s enabled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; destabilizing the network.</span>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m2130119924=
291467262h3" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"font-family:monosp=
ace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:monospace; color:black"><=
a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%2=
3section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76=
b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710=
4446411879&amp;sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gMLUp%2BcVjB4%3D=
&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" shash=3D"hVGmHz7P6kR9GWPe55qsm=
yFaKCrdTqD/&#43;d0FVH9z31HuQp&#43;d6lWA72BbEX6/xNbLHGwY2C7Z9Knx/3aVoQCq4qXc=
M/YLGtaoYaNmj4MZH4YX9LLmvPh&#43;rdKoePJRi1AZN3955giBI6snbGDbYyYwJBneQ0y&#43=
;6MKu&#43;LcmUuqy39I=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
<span style=3D"font-family:monospace; color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</span></a>.=
&nbsp; Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><u style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader advertises a n=
on-zero algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area th=
at support Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; value of algorithm advertised by =
the Area Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; flooding topology based on the Ar=
ea Leader's advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Nodes that do not support the val=
ue of algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Area Leader MUST continue to use =
standard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined by the protocol.</span><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Nodes that do not support the val=
ue of algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Area Leader MUST be considered as=
 Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; the Area Leader.</span><u style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the value of the algorithm adv=
ertised by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; the range 128-254 (private distri=
buted algorithms), it is the responsibility of the&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"=
font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; box-sizing:border-box;=
 word-wrap:break-word; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radius:=
4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; overflo=
w:auto; font-family:monospace; background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">network operator=
 to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of wha=
t the given algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; box-sizing:border-box;=
 word-wrap:break-word; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radius:=
4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; overflo=
w:auto; font-family:monospace; background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u =
style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
</pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Former =3D WG LC&nbsp;<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11=
.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org=
%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&amp;sdata=3DkIqZH1iGc%2BVF=
x3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzHRKxp5Et4o%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08" shash=3D=
"BNxZ2zvmDkTINdo3ksgUyEFrJaFZ9bkcaLx0HDfjdpFeO5FkPUEwlAnWMtLToxlCFq5lYQYUTX=
hLL/9H6O7jF&#43;ID5aEfI9Ns5ttuZxjnH&#43;G9A&#43;Z7vbtei7Qna4KBalGt12SJAm4dy=
ewI0zvelhtyWAOTsM2ZoH4g0XTlfc1qs7M=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Provides algorithm for d=
istributed mode for this draft as well as the algorithm to be used for dist=
ributed mode later dynamic flooding draft&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Separate question-<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">In light of the flooding=
 algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding a=
lgorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overl=
apping with the flex algo codepoints
 I believe 0-127.&nbsp; I would think the flooding algorithm range of value=
s is completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11=
.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org=
%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446421873&amp;sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUATTDuUvKgFl=
9AtQzuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07" shash=3D"i/ANS2g8G9DAoq0=
zRhQXlLLhTQk0lKb7nkVSmlv3JZBCXBsx&#43;YLaGY0Tsr7F6NfRmMHJRER6aX7d6yBM1XMyZB=
HDMV9TbcfPo5VI44r2YzTp15qFYFxS8Q6w5Fl5zmP0eJmB/BP8ZdAmI4o5daoBOElkQPbe4Cv2p=
PLPjEz7CKM=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf=
t-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"x_MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; tex=
t-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123=
373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:=
black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123=
373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at =
11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answer=
s are inline below with [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"x_MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; tex=
t-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123=
373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:=
black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Huaimo&nbsp;<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">This is a much needed fe=
ature that operators have been needing for densely meshed topologies that c=
ommonly exist in data centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffi=
c.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: Thank you very muc=
h.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Below is link from Cisco=
 which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECM=
P data center topologies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Please look at the featu=
re description and it does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp;=
 Please confirm.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: It seems different=
.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">There maybe other vendor=
s due to industry demand have to get the feature deployed before it reaches=
 standards vendor consensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11=
.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2F=
en%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fw=
hite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257104446431887&amp;sdata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%2F2WGYtA7=
HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.cisco.com/c/en/=
us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-=
743015.html" shash=3D"MZ8KIQBUiEfMtpGI2T8gFW8&#43;GKF9QJfjNAoYngRSE4tYkef0w=
N8sMjeTtpNRFFG9a86XZ8xKJ0yjgsQhZVlFAezJrqQUzGWTDILjLaNt94/GsyUtX3r64jwF7XRq=
MdDBH28R7KfjiQTQ70invE20haA3HSLDhnnxevlLI4tLIXI=3D" target=3D"_blank">https=
://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-swi=
tches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">We are testing this feat=
ure and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as th=
e draft on the standards track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: <span style=3D"bac=
kground-color:white; color:black">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; H=
ow does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Wo=
uld they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or=
 competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing t=
o me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp; <u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11=
.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org=
%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH8U3Fyb9Ej=
xjv%2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOLkZGO8FN4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" shash=3D"RE9qY5t=
w8JCo7I9pMzYmcDF5XyYeMjy1qlecYfm&#43;SfqaYEmqKcvb4wgCzbMDC3HoA7ZC/9BNeYR4b2=
ABxEmQNZ1BLby65AnDMK8QPYxcVGKIt3t9Wtll18izuB1m/YUg12/7kTuO6EmfOpuK2EQWAZmXz=
zP4G1PbBxLkonDpJkI=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Kind regards&nbsp;<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at =
11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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b(204,204,204)">
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b(204,204,204)">
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you v=
ery much for your questions and support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; This F</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; background-c=
olor:white; color:rgb(50,49,48)">looding Topology
 Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs =
to compute the flooding topologies for the&nbsp;data center clos dense mesh=
ed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in th=
e centralized mode to compute the flooding
 topology. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt">&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div class=3D"x_MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; tex=
t-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123=
373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:=
black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">I support WG adoption an=
d have a few questions related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Does this flooding algor=
ithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in data center clos dense mesh=
ed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the ph=
ysical topology.&nbsp; In the dynamic flooding
 algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the ar=
ea leader and distributed to all nodes.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode=
 the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the f=
looding topology based on the algorithm.
 &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">This dynamic algorithm f=
or optimized flood reduction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding =
in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimizatio=
n of flooding would improving overall link
 state routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan&nbsp;<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at =
3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
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<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Plea=
se issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<=
sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQbkD0lpbQ8BfAjXZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"MU0Nu951DnHHn2J0J2UdlUxUdCw6JF9p9Rix3=
2TAu8&#43;U2msWPBNFaba/jJJW05shx&#43;ElTxM7pVB&#43;86Iv2GDzDc/&#43;icwUBvWQ=
84SHx9zdGY4AnsbUJdEq3viqHUnJAqoeKVe27JFyky5PZVJGv6v38UPFUE906sFgCIZDngvgfDI=
=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-floodi=
ng-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">________________________=
_______________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&amp;sdata=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1=
ueJJeUuuMZsI3yTdsVkji8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ietf=
.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" shash=3D"E0Uf&#43;5u12kcRtmOm2i8R2xeohKHKXg0&#43=
;2XFYM9pCWtfLOJwnWSCXo9dIUCtdcSpuMQhtcNCR2JvDaZ0ch&#43;UKdfU2jEmBt&#43;&#43=
;Te5kNrPNPIPmutg&#43;5MpBXtwG&#43;RaBfRvHacE6sPzPKHuVEJAwjozsZOFpDaFR82TAI7=
j9E7hk2ois=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<=
/a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
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ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
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<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
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406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446451864&amp;sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chceH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&amp;=
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kbsrG2zzslizRNuGfO6pHk0MPUtUWhwhyTLKHJ/I0NjauCkdAs5EPr4TfIN/9qHCesLzDUpiVNl=
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 padding:0in; text-decoration:none; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"htt=
ps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google=
.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSil=
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C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee=
8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&amp;sdata=3Db%2Fr=
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3;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" =
shash=3D"Z4O1vlidx2jXd4p6WErVAIwpMJr1rumlwwDB7DUFhEnCBYhY366&#43;w2DZwLD&#4=
3;elBveZK5GUE86NG6HL&#43;4mwrgaJDQwcifHIkChIGrxP779sEd2QyLB0xhHpf6Zy00OGVDO=
/HEQskZ/upXhKlrgk/SCw8r9VRg0IP5&#43;QrzNgoL8rA=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a h=
ref=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F=
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font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network
 Solutions Architect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
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F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446481860&amp;sdata=3Dp0ttOIduJDiC0qR91gpSHhFnYJ6uVzJUJdV5qfOCPlw%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#=
43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail=
&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"V/gn6oDeEznypeeH6rBYYibHf5Q6ck5eKxATLRzkuepKlBd6X=
UL97xZt8rewFw7LKfDdn31IByVkKZOvoeftUwgCPSDE/QrEs8CEM3egYkYeymruWNdsu72NxXNS=
/GauknXmOsgExrO0zrObvNiG2wZHrQqmPSR6471tQBIQQ6A=3D" target=3D"_blank">Silve=
r
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446491855&amp;sdata=3Dik1xhwQyDjOvNfMg%2BQMAIIiMPkWlUER3K5q99T43c%2Fo%3D&am=
p;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"Egifq9eDsm=
nJGKww6JPZrkEbejAuYiO/ssnZhk7QzTKlITsDd59i67uVHGjng/qlD66Rmcj0m4CmwI4YkYa7h=
OF5WlTJpTbdCRBZBhudPKa7jRx1czIwoXJ0IEQZ9whDej&#43;9z64MlwL2rIxOxM7WERtSPibc=
WxVs0VcR7jcWJoI=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windo=
wtext; padding:0in; text-decoration:none; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions Arc=
hitect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7f=
df5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446491855&amp=
;sdata=3D2U%2B3C5vUgVYU0GgNHfX2GRpsPVMm43GWWqzxm%2BOdOKQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Columb=
ia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&am=
p;source=3Dg" shash=3D"qIXEVNTJYm&#43;E7wZ3p76rQuWNXCrt9xyj9WQfS/O6SqrUp4/Y=
lvKd2U56ydNDQblFjAjJ&#43;rGSxCs15oQ1WifHS3CN&#43;OUaLD20AkGPZ2a70CKJq2UjTk&=
#43;arYEVVaKgmYiGVkbCh1DYkGmgmDn/Q2TMO9sJAayZV7EwRiXbL5Tdc9E=3D" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Georgia,serif"></a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection=
.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2B=
Columbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26so=
urce%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406=
057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446=
501852&amp;sdata=3DeCAT1E6b8XpInRH0rt3JhcsRLGIoq32a5UOw84kqLQw%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columb=
ia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;sour=
ce=3Dg" shash=3D"PaK/flKdsNu0grtPzRi7R6RFfTAgSgeC4EsD/5ffXfgyFWrjA4v38F7DkO=
wFYbaZPi9H0c91rKA3Or84tTp4mE64kjV1&#43;na6EEJZ5IuZxvTO9pLFLppLigNsaqjEzWKQC=
CKa32AgZuh2UnrAuEhTVL7kQKS/xg0IgVX3klWkGWM=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Georgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446511843&amp;sdata=3De6tNSbiepHHR7EJywi46nnEh2sD7JNdlKBF%2Bj%2B2WV8w=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/131=
01&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dg=
mail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"AzYpTEDSQ3gxrX10d&#43;ecNfmFGNzo6KUYST09uvZwe=
ydx6fi1NAWCm8s9i0rBhLquoOc29WSkP7fmBVXP&#43;kiRndwfUsMzNM41bSO36IHy5LM2xdfY=
8Vd7qwR5M&#43;X3U4yF9pQu1MUq25NV93unQJ/SOQX6pk7ZkfXqfqnbJa3erDg=3D" target=
=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446511843&amp;sdata=3DmlfQG0sJIh5NUKLahCziTmtrCWqimi13RAze0SXZ2cE%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"Bixx9q&#43;Sak=
kKMIfrcptlW&#43;bWc7VQc8bZDCzcD6P/j/EiGT8qGZf7E8mwnoSDeGQo2XPPazvuNNcLUUTYe=
1IY6ezjgqL6zzfF7f/pOPhNv&#43;yGKE6d93lPzqaYj1QxLJw2526XaQ6KX7qJjJIIWBUepZdB=
KSacGJIcbw6j3Lf209A=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid w=
indowtext; padding:0in; text-decoration:none; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Erro=
r!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"x_m_-3104503748293921115WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions Arc=
hitect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zq=
PW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#=
43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"ukLfPQ0=
&#43;/F1eKItPd7kF9PZ3Pfm&#43;Xd1/TqMnEJPYnMevQ1d0vFElVbUpGPZMQYqkfU3K1ybF4m=
vqgew7zp6okWm6eCpHh713GSeJJ82tpEXGggiWn1PTlxOpufBElG3wmY207HZZba6iR101giZE8=
VJ4uMV520ErpEwgbyYA2mQ=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,s=
erif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zqPW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC=
14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/1=
3101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"ukLfPQ0&#43;/F1eKItPd7kF9PZ3Pfm&#43;Xd1/T=
qMnEJPYnMevQ1d0vFElVbUpGPZMQYqkfU3K1ybF4mvqgew7zp6okWm6eCpHh713GSeJJ82tpEXG=
ggiWn1PTlxOpufBElG3wmY207HZZba6iR101giZE8VJ4uMV520ErpEwgbyYA2mQ=3D" target=
=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446531830&amp;sdata=3Dj7qLXVJD4j8=
%2FviHXL9MOvkB3MB5k2jEh%2BnprB5sh%2FvA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#=
43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"in84M6f=
EY4/Er0ODFG5iZTcrA9EshDDRhqZfPzQ8xFyySkBmdSZ9xP7Md4BLXlItUwF/DSr7RgxYVXDqZt=
Bl1zK4zHRUkqz1GVtHW1v6ZsV6yOqCEFR1rTLBIpCg/zGH6w48eTS86cZ3qVHPW18TEaqRRgFKv=
nokaVXyn/qvWDM=3D"></a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446541830&amp;sdata=3DsTN2HQO64Um1VqZkhLZMa8Mi7S8WykmI%2BsqVNa921uI%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"cqTL938WM0In=
HeQ16&#43;&#43;oKOFoDoCQhjh4tMcT8OG2nm36th3TZWGEoieFuRMSsTzz5Z/p0gOmTcD1U/O=
MHAp2DSiny6B4X90MITGRTxUDVdhkwZm5hbbfxb1SGaPrI7Mq//QiISHHnxrgkmPS0qZYo43/vL=
jalFQdOHcxRlVx7s8=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid win=
dowtext; padding:0in; text-decoration:none; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions Arc=
hitect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446541830&amp;sdata=3DkvKt%2FhIAt=
w0TihRjOw2QUQwsciGPZsEvA7Ajyd8nu0Y%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"JHyVw7qZPN&=
#43;lS2TjQndctdMEOFKgVPI8VxEbj&#43;5gMF2i/QHgBWVKzTWEI3g/QfBeHQSZfuQIJqI5KE=
vTODbaykGaKZv2ksJ0Zvp58uLlPO1GOwH5KLqxzmXhORCTZ9yqJ7KWZAizHdt4/ZAaraufLqW2n=
OEwwLm0A8epn19zUFw=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif=
">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446551824&amp;sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfsgol2MPiv%2BtS3bfa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101=
&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgma=
il&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"QaL2nEFX&#43;4kp0OGQ5mVjUAXe&#43;DDI0galC2twsHk=
lPDI9hpy7tgo1vChImC5Mndebx6kNTj1HQsn4LguGIgy4BMHoEnSmm4FkDGgeYGWJcJAzV9AB2u=
Qwms6fJAEab3Ztfq59N1RR1AeWFbi/H2d&#43;rUjp3TFV1I7rLCZPgQU94r0=3D" target=3D=
"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
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s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"QaL2nEFX&#4=
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<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb=
76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257=
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E8L9qIZJxlZEhYtE3hPp/AE2kD7cB3VZwITVWegx/yLZxaknDagFhBxtODF189U8WCaQlU&#43;=
7g7k0ji5Drk1FzysSZJJTkQ9tA=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decora=
tion:none; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
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u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b=
><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</spa=
n></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions A=
rchitect&nbsp;</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQM=
sm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43=
;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"EN9ZGndkh=
CzQV8YXrgEh7V/amQbtBywP2cmyV&#43;BlTyhbjDrm0WdabzNXKrt2YKZXrg7&#43;RTMTZPek=
d&#43;5OBL11qDjTf0DMd9nOxg2Wsp9XeODuhg&#43;pqYMNCYU62hjLwl5BtjEaues1ycwD1tr=
oW0KtwZR6Ia7iNs&#43;K0FtStKXn1L8=3D" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13=
101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQMsm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/131=
01&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dg=
mail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"EN9ZGndkhCzQV8YXrgEh7V/amQbtBywP2cmyV&#43;BlT=
yhbjDrm0WdabzNXKrt2YKZXrg7&#43;RTMTZPekd&#43;5OBL11qDjTf0DMd9nOxg2Wsp9XeODu=
hg&#43;pqYMNCYU62hjLwl5BtjEaues1ycwD1troW0KtwZR6Ia7iNs&#43;K0FtStKXn1L8=3D"=
>Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
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huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DuYQI13rtEKi=
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//www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Sil=
ver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"GW4H1GpQHyB2a=
VkDlySs5yPsSvsc0uqS0&#43;zybBpHnXaSAnJCrxeGnG3wPFM88ah6o9d60MZBz2eMM36Htd5a=
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pSVXORFnWWuf48eIbDNEsOns=3D"></a></div>
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></=
p>
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
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</blockquote>
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Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DD7sb4GOCEO=
eHEvKNjVxo0Sy004BHtfqiE4k65sSuxiY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http:=
//www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"Wu6&#43;IN87lxJRSepC&#43;qHsPOEaU7ZxjV&#43;Ado=
cKMTh2DSjggOD9hmHFIyigWJRUQur9jWiNH8T&#43;2CqlWaxfmrZ4WQio1JKnuxJA1QN9aMDCH=
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</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org,  The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:


Peter:

Hi!


> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
> thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear =
in
> the document.

I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)


I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
discussion.


...
> > My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
> >
> > (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
> > different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
> > attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
> > the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
> > the propagation is optional...
>
> depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
> That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.

Right.

For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
the other bits in rfc7794. =C2=A0No changes are needed.

If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
address Ben's comment:

OLD>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC530=
2], it
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.

NEW>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a=
 prefix
=C2=A0 =C2=A0between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).

[Similar for OSPF.]



I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...

For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
originate a new LSA.

Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes informatio=
n between
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix =
Opaque LSA
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC7684] including the received ELC setting. =C2=A0If the rec=
eived information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA =
is not needed.


For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).

Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes informatio=
n between
=C2=A0 =C2=A0connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area=
-Prefix-LSA
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST be the same as the received value.




> > (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
> > support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
> > scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
> > the L1L2 support this specification?
>
> drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
> Considerations section.

I think that text is ok.


Thanks!

Alvaro.


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 20:41:37 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV0CC6wBrPkiA+vKjpX--JPBPfRzJ=0GDP3BqH4NPaecKQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/8xO1-NhFmr4gY_KGoE1C9wevA_c>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Huaimo

Thank you for the slide deck.  That really helps understand the algorithm.

I will let you know if I have any questions.

The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by limiting the
convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all nodes and
links are part of the flood scope.  From the examples in the slide deck I
did not see mentioned what is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm
where when you have a meshed network in the slide 5 examples, how do you
limit the flooding on redundant links duplicate flooding with the many
meshed paths as you iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq().  I believe
with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes.

I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and
problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in
duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine leaf
it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to lea=
f
links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the
redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much
worse then circular nodal mesh.

Thank you

Gyan

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline
> below.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM
> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org=
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
> minimum.
> [HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorithm is in Appendi=
x.
> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>
> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>
> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
> [HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached.
>
> That would help.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3DglKNEH=
I0pmavkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> 4.1
>
> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>
> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>
> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to righ=
t
> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the =
FT
> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node=
 by
> node.
> [HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is an iterative loop
> after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each node whose D =3D=
 1
> (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a
> link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on FT to have it=
s
> D > 1. Page 5 of the attached slides shows some details for this loop.
>
> 4.2
>
> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.
>
>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>
>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>
>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>
> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected node=
s
> [HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.
>
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0f=
ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3D0%2B33O=
Rq8CFVJuZjTNSQwvI1UjK6W8xdcz%2FlOXsYMTxc%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>
> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>
> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two
> spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in th=
e
> discussion for this.
>
>
>
> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful=
.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=9C=
epiphany=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
> then I am all set.
>
>
>
> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
> feature.
>
>
>
> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that
> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much muc=
h
> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround o=
f
> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>
>
>
> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorith=
m/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm%2F&data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3DiC=
Y2RDNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlhuHdsM0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrBo=
A2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good id=
ea to
> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions.
>
>
>
>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446391897&sdata=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNxU=
Z6LhjTbIJDT5gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide tw=
o
> modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode=
).
> The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding
> topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former
> proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the
> distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
>
>
>
> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propos=
ed
> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>
>
>
> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
> specification flow nicely.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that fr=
om
> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples b=
ut
> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have s=
eparate
> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm
> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>
>
>
> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
> distributed
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446401884&sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFrye=
6L7vgdHjLIY50hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE1QF0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
> distributed algorithm see below
>
>
>
> *6.4 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23s=
ection-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b40605=
7d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710444640=
1884&sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZOF1UWxQE%3D&reserved=3D0>=
.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>
>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>
>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>
>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>
>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>
>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>
>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>
>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>
>    flooding topologies.
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>
>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>
>
>
>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>
>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>
>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>
>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>
>    destabilizing the network.
>
>
>
> *6.5 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23s=
ection-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b40605=
7d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710444641=
1879&sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gMLUp%2BcVjB4%3D&reserved=
=3D0>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>
>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>
>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>
>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>
>    defined by the protocol.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>
>    the Area Leader.
>
>
>
>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>
>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsi=
bility of the
>
> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common un=
derstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>
>
>
> Former =3D WG LC
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&sdata=3DkIqZH1=
iGc%2BVFx3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzHRKxp5Et4o%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>
>
>
> Separate question-
>
>
>
> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446421873&sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUATT=
DuUvKgFl9AtQzuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>
>
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> Huaimo
>
>
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
>
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
>
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446431887&sdata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%2=
F2WGYtA7HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm..
>
>
>
>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH8=
U3Fyb9Ejxjv%2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOLkZGO8FN4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can
> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodin=
g
> topology.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
>
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
>
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQbk=
D0lpbQ8BfAjXZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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i.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&sdata=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1ueJJeUuuMZsI3yTd=
sVkji8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b40=
6057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710444=
6451864&sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chceH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>
> *Gyan
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A=
%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02=
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ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&sdata=3Db%2FrOX=
TZ8ayq5rzEPxpOlLuMfEvsw3FPbOVkqQUcnieQ%3D&reserved=3D0>Mishra*
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A=
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ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&sdata=3DGLW4e%2=
BMcjf8oIZmuUXtgcfmzrB%2BBWqXsvDquWI492EU%3D&reserved=3D0>*Network
> Solutions Architect *
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%=
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40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&sdata=3Dpsm7wBWSK%2BEtFkhnb9B3soi0S=
6%2FrAXm%2FEXMoo6dnGKM%3D&reserved=3D0>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
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> *M 301 502-1347
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>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
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>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b40=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
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> *Silver Spring, MD
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er%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> --
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b40=
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>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000d80d2505a6460281
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">Thank you for the slide deck.=C2=A0 That really helps unders=
tand the algorithm. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">I will let you=C2=A0know if I have any questions.</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The goal of the algorithm is to speed up conve=
rgence by limiting the convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time=
 until all nodes and links are part of the flood scope.=C2=A0 From the exam=
ples in the slide deck I did not see mentioned what is done with the dynami=
c flooding algorithm where when you have a meshed network in the slide 5 ex=
amples, how do you limit the flooding on redundant links duplicate flooding=
 with the many meshed paths as you iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq()=
.=C2=A0 I believe with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 link=
s between nodes. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and problemati=
c with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate r=
edundant flooding that slows down convergence.=C2=A0 With spine leaf it=E2=
=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to leaf lin=
ks.=C2=A0 With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the red=
undant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much wo=
rse then circular nodal mesh. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Ca=
libri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> Gyan=
 Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:13 PM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">ls=
r@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=
=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick =
diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorit=
hm is in Appendix.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts are=
 hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology ex=
amples. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf s=
pine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That would help.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d=
208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044463719=
00&amp;sdata=3DglKNEHI0pmavkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-l=
sr-flooding-reduction-08</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and =
starts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and wor=
k left to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with =
each node B with directly attached node R
 via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B from Cq until the FT is build for all n=
odes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching physical t=
opology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is=C2=
=A0<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West=
 European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Robo=
to,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;display:inline!important;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,255,255)">an
 iterative loop after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each no=
de whose D =3D 1 (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a n=
ode through a link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on F=
T to have its D &gt; 1. Page 5 of the
 attached slides shows some details for this loop.</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Seg=
oe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMac=
SystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;display:inline!impo=
rtant;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.2=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directl=
y connected nodes=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.</div></div></di=
v></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.h=
tml&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d2=
08d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710444637190=
0&amp;sdata=3D0%2B33ORq8CFVJuZjTNSQwvI1UjK6W8xdcz%2FlOXsYMTxc%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is=
 geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf =
connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively bui=
ld out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or leaf spine lea=
f.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p>Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black=
">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mai=
l archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any particular dates in =
the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the questions I have so if =
all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft moving forward as flood =
reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both drafts will really help=
 large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS =
highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally with a large spine foot=
print - this is
 a much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of =
the workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous com=
plexity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057=
d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381=
892&amp;sdata=3DiCY2RDNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlhuHdsM0%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4=
e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&amp;sdata=
=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrBoA2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussio=
n late. It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=
From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduct=
ion.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators too=
lbox =C2=A0or competing features
 for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features s=
tandardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for=
 operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446391897&amp;sdata=
=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNxUZ6LhjTbIJDT5gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provi=
de two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed=
 mode). The latter describes
 the two modes, but does not include any flooding topology computation algo=
rithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a=C2=A0<span style=3D"b=
ackground-color:white">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used i=
n the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for=
 both documents to reference each other as to how they play together or =C2=
=A0in some respects if any provide a homogeneous complete holistic solution=
 for flooding problem being solved.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is a good idea to have this new draft ref=
erence the dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic floodi=
ng draft provides a framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provi=
des a separate
 flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propose=
d in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virt=
ual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to=
 combine both drafts so the solution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This w=
ill also make the overall specification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do t=
his.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a=
 common IGP solution, however there are many inherent differences between I=
SIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat li=
ke apples to apples
 but really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe it might we wise t=
o have separate draft for both and have references linking together as the =
same algorithm concept and mathematically however the actual code implement=
ation would vary as the LSDB link state data
 structures are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Central=
ized leader based and distributed=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446401884&amp;sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFrye6L7vgdHjLIY50hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE=
1QF0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This later draft per section excerpt provides =
both centralized and distributed algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257104446401884&amp;sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZO=
F1UWxQE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span></=
a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
.=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257104446411879&amp;sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gM=
LUp%2BcVjB4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"=
_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</spa=
n></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of what the given =
algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.c=
om%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&amp;sdata=3DkIqZH1iGc%2BVFx3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzH=
RKxp5Et4o%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for th=
is draft as well as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dyn=
amic flooding draft=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing =
that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA =
codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex a=
lgo codepoints
 I believe 0-127.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm range of value=
s is completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446421873&amp;sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUATTDuUvKgFl9AtQzuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115m_21301199242914672=
62m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115m_21301199242914672=
62m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with=
 [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115m_21301199242914672=
62m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This is a much needed feature that operators h=
ave been needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data =
centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced =
feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologi=
es.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Please look at the feature description and it =
does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">There maybe other vendors due to industry dema=
nd have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor cons=
ensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fc=
ollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.=
html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d=
208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044464318=
87&amp;sdata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%2F2WGYtA7HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&amp;res=
erved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collate=
ral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">We are testing this feature and planning to de=
ploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standar=
ds track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;co=
lor:black">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft com=
pare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventu=
al standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features fo=
r optimized flood reduction. Would having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing t=
o me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH8U3Fyb9Ejxjv%2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOL=
kZGO8FN4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questi=
ons and support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">looding Topology
 Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs =
to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data center clos dense mesh=
ed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in th=
e centralized mode to compute the flooding
 topology. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115m_21301199242914672=
62m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divR=
plyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I support WG adoption and have a few questions=
 related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic f=
looding algorithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0=
 In the dynamic flooding
 algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the ar=
ea leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode=
 the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the f=
looding topology based on the algorithm.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood red=
uction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely mesh=
ed ospf or Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would im=
proving overall link
 state routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-system=
s.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQbkD0lpbQ8BfAjXZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">______________________________________________=
_<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&amp;sdata=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1=
ueJJeUuuMZsI3yTdsVkji8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
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<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446451864&amp;sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chceH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"https:=
//nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co=
m%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&amp;sdata=3Db%2FrOXT=
Z8ayq5rzEPxpOlLuMfEvsw3FPbOVkqQUcnieQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4=
e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&amp;sdata=
=3DGLW4e%2BMcjf8oIZmuUXtgcfmzrB%2BBWqXsvDquWI492EU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" tar=
get=3D"_blank"></a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black"=
>Network
 Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://w=
ww.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&amp;sdata=3Dpsm7wBWSK%2=
BEtFkhnb9B3soi0S6%2FrAXm%2FEXMoo6dnGKM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blan=
k" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446481860&amp;sdata=3Dp0ttOIduJDiC0qR91gpSHhFnYJ6uVzJUJdV5qfOCPlw%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446491855&amp;sdata=3Dik1xhwQyDjOvNfMg%2BQMAIIiMPkWlUER3K5q99T43c%2Fo%3D&am=
p;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtex=
t;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7f=
df5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446491855&amp=
;sdata=3D2U%2B3C5vUgVYU0GgNHfX2GRpsPVMm43GWWqzxm%2BOdOKQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"htt=
ps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google=
.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpri=
ng%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40=
futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d=
5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446501852&amp;sdata=3DeCAT1E6b8XpInRH0rt3JhcsRL=
GIoq32a5UOw84kqLQw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif"=
 target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446511843&amp;sdata=3De6tNSbiepHHR7EJywi46nnEh2sD7JNdlKBF%2Bj%2B2WV8w=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/m=
aps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446511843&amp;sdata=3DmlfQG0sJIh5NUKLahCziTmtrCWqimi13RAze0SXZ2cE%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zq=
PW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zqPW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC=
14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446531830&amp;sdata=3Dj7qLXVJD4j8=
%2FviHXL9MOvkB3MB5k2jEh%2BnprB5sh%2FvA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blan=
k"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://www=
.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Sprin=
g,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446541830&amp;sdata=3DsTN2HQO64Um1VqZkhLZMa8Mi7S8WykmI%2BsqVNa921uI%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446541830&amp;sdata=3DkvKt%2FhIAt=
w0TihRjOw2QUQwsciGPZsEvA7Ajyd8nu0Y%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446551824&amp;sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfsgol2MPiv%2BtS3bfa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446551824&amp;sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfs=
gol2MPiv%2BtS3bfa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><=
/a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb=
76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257=
104446561816&amp;sdata=3DfaawTrV7ADwTXxvf%2BKE9WX64z1r5ro%2B7bmfhRMbW2Xg%3D=
&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decoration:none;co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;c=
olor:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" id=3D"m_7=
924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image remove=
d by sender." style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;"></span></span></=
a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></=
u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Arch=
itect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQM=
sm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQMsm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DuYQI13rtEKi=
dJMaMnowsjiSAqbN3Ygeu4X2eQL7LCts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"></a=
></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DD7sb4GOCEO=
eHEvKNjVxo0Sy004BHtfqiE4k65sSuxiY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"padding-bot=
tom:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img w=
idth=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;" src=3D"http:=
//ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:blac=
k"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
 face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:georgia,=
serif">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pik=
e+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD<=
/a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000d80d2505a6460281--


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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
References: <63330FD6-EDE8-4938-AA85-948279C57E34@cisco.com> <DM6PR06MB509842BA0E42A4938ACB2B94EEB80@DM6PR06MB5098.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3jQ=C6ynJBsKhJW_b=hkq7CKPFG2ci0vXE_0jZH9KtXQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117C43CA052E4E29D7428CBF2B60@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV2Y3kemTdHYBamZwAB+m5DefxqTC0shPan2cGHd9TARTg@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117E84C778B11D71FAF8135F2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV1W3EDJpqUjLGj3-E-8L1R=75oAgtHX==9qkfrvrZy2ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117A5E68B341A203266C64AF2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3e_qm=RmTQyQ+yCWN+pt_d1Aw8-W9gkRwH+_kAyphu8Q@mail.gmail.com> <424B17B1-D66D-4708-A819-855E972841AF@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2cDoNotaePw30eZa5wE61NC_vh8cFaZHh_nPqs1ibFsg@mail.gmail.com> <E093695B-78DE-4332-B4E7-87343077624E@cisco.com> <CABNhwV1cfOE+trZGM-s44xU0su5RUgL2c7ubRCdc3EFCWsdujw@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB31179DB87C96DA218F9EB1D0F2B40@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV0CC6wBrPkiA+vKjpX--JPBPfRzJ=0GDP3BqH4NPaecKQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

> I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and =
problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results =
in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine =
leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is =
spine to leaf links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine =
expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows =
exponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. =20

One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes a =
flooding topology at the node level.  If the adjacency between A and B =
is on the flooding topology, then any single link between them may be =
used for flooding.  If you have 128 way parallel links, this is an =
immediate 128x improvement in flooding overhead.  What=E2=80=99s more, A =
and B do not need to agree on which link they are using and can use =
different links, resulting in an asymmetric situation, without any loss =
of correctness or performance.=20

Regards,
Tony


--Apple-Mail=_E55AD659-D2FD-41E9-A9B2-45FA5ED1E894
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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Hi Gyan,</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh =
is much more intensive and problematic with ECMP then a circular =
topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate redundant flooding that =
slows down convergence.&nbsp; With spine leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X =
horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.&nbsp; With =
spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP =
grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much worse then =
circular nodal mesh. &nbsp;</div></div></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div><div>One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that =
it computes a flooding topology at the node level. &nbsp;If the =
adjacency between A and B is on the flooding topology, then any single =
link between them may be used for flooding. &nbsp;If you have 128 way =
parallel links, this is an immediate 128x improvement in flooding =
overhead. &nbsp;What=E2=80=99s more, A and B do not need to agree on =
which link they are using and can use different links, resulting in an =
asymmetric situation, without any loss of correctness or =
performance.&nbsp;</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Tony</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 21:11:44 -0400
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To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Huaimo

Thinking about physical topology a little further as with the FT algorithm
it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical however the overall
coverage is based on those basic parameters of degree number of links and
nodes as well as width and depth of the topology.

Thinking about it further the clos leaf spine DC style topology is much
worse in terms of flooding due to physical topology that leafs don=E2=80=99=
t
physical connection and are interconnected via the spine creating massive
ECMP and overload of the spine super spine.  So the physical DC leaf spine
topology really exacerbates the flooding due to the non full mesh nature of
the topology.

With a service provider core which is typically a mesh style multi tier
multiple concentric circles mix of full and partial mesh and hub spoke type
physical topologies.

So with flooding with full mesh every node connects with every node so you
don=E2=80=99t have an overload of flooding being funneled through a super s=
pine as
you do with a leaf spine DC architecture.  So in a full mesh which is the
best case scenario for flooding perspective from my point of view which
each node as root connects to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow
the flooding scope and it=E2=80=99s pretty controlled and you can limit the
redundant flooding.  When the physical topology changes to a much more
partially meshed the ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the flooding
and longer convergence time.

So I think in the slide deck and draft look at scenario where their is
tremendous ECMP from partial meshing and how the flood reduction algorithm
improves the flooding and convergence.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Huaimo
>
> Thank you for the slide deck.  That really helps understand the algorithm=
.
>
>
> I will let you know if I have any questions.
>
> The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by limiting the
> convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all nodes and
> links are part of the flood scope.  From the examples in the slide deck I
> did not see mentioned what is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm
> where when you have a meshed network in the slide 5 examples, how do you
> limit the flooding on redundant links duplicate flooding with the many
> meshed paths as you iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq().  I believe
> with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes.
>
> I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and
> problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in
> duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine lea=
f
> it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to l=
eaf
> links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the
> redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is mu=
ch
> worse then circular nodal mesh.
>
> Thank you
>
> Gyan
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline
>> below.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM
>> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> *Cc:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.or=
g
>> >
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
>> minimum.
>> [HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorithm is in
>> Appendix.
>> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
>> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>>
>> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
>> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>>
>> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
>> [HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached.
>>
>> That would help.
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C=
0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3DglKNE=
HI0pmavkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> 4.1
>>
>> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>>
>> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
>>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>>
>> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
>> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to rig=
ht
>> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
>> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the=
 FT
>> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
>> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go nod=
e by
>> node.
>> [HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is an iterative loop
>> after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each node whose D =
=3D 1
>> (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a
>> link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on FT to have i=
ts
>> D > 1. Page 5 of the attached slides shows some details for this loop.
>>
>> 4.2
>>
>> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.
>>
>>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>>
>>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH'=
s
>>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
>>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>>
>>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>>
>> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected
>> nodes
>> [HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.htm=
l
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446371900&sdata=3D0%2B33=
ORq8CFVJuZjTNSQwvI1UjK6W8xdcz%2FlOXsYMTxc%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>>
>> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
>> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>>
>> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to tw=
o
>> spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
>> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
>> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
>> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
>> lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in
>> the discussion for this.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpfu=
l.
>>
>>
>>
>> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D.
>>
>>
>>
>> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
>> then I am all set.
>>
>>
>>
>> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
>> feature.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
>> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology tha=
t
>> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much mu=
ch
>> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround =
of
>> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm%2F&data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3DiC=
Y2RDNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlhuHdsM0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&sdata=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrB=
oA2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good i=
dea to
>> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
>> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thanks much for your questions.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havi=
ng
>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing =
to
>> me.
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446391897&sdata=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNx=
UZ6LhjTbIJDT5gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide
>> two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed
>> mode). The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any
>> flooding topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The
>> former proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in
>> the distributed mode.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
>> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
>> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
>> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
>> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
>> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propo=
sed
>> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
>> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so th=
e
>> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
>> specification flow nicely.
>>
>>
>>
>> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
>> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that f=
rom
>> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples =
but
>> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have =
separate
>> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorith=
m
>> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
>> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
>> distributed
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446401884&sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFry=
e6L7vgdHjLIY50hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE1QF0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
>> distributed algorithm see below
>>
>>
>>
>> *6.4 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23=
section-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4060=
57d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044464=
01884&sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZOF1UWxQE%3D&reserved=3D0=
>.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>>
>>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>>
>>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>>
>>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>>
>>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>>
>>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>>
>>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>>
>>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>>
>>    flooding topologies.
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>>
>>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>>
>>
>>
>>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>>
>>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>>
>>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>>
>>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>>
>>    destabilizing the network.
>>
>>
>>
>> *6.5 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23=
section-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4060=
57d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044464=
11879&sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gMLUp%2BcVjB4%3D&reserved=
=3D0>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>>
>>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>>
>>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>>
>>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>
>>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>>
>>    defined by the protocol.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>>
>>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>>
>>    the Area Leader.
>>
>>
>>
>>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>>
>>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the respons=
ibility of the
>>
>> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common u=
nderstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Former =3D WG LC
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C=
0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&sdata=3DkIqZH=
1iGc%2BVFx3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzHRKxp5Et4o%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
>> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>>
>>
>>
>> Separate question-
>>
>>
>>
>> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
>> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
>> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
>> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
>> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446421873&sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUAT=
TDuUvKgFl9AtQzuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>>
>>
>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.o=
rg
>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC=
].
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
>> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.o=
rg
>> <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>> Huaimo
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for
>> densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to
>> accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>>
>> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic
>> flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly th=
e
>> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>>
>> [HC]: It seems different.
>>
>>
>>
>> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
>> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-se=
ries-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-se=
ries-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40=
futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d=
5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446431887&sdata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%=
2F2WGYtA7HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
>> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>>
>> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
>> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
>> algorithm..
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
>> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
>> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havi=
ng
>> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
>> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing =
to
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH=
8U3Fyb9Ejxjv%2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOLkZGO8FN4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>>
>>
>>
>>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
>> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
>> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It ca=
n
>> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodi=
ng
>> topology.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Huaimo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
>> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
>> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
>> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
>> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
>> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
>> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
>> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>>
>>
>>
>> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
>> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
>> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall li=
nk
>> state routing protocol convergence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>>
>> Support it as a co-author.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Yanhe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
>> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>>
>>
>>
>> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=
=9CFlooding
>> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support=
 or
>> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
>> for your convenience.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446441864&sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQb=
kD0lpbQ8BfAjXZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurew=
ei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&sdata=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1ueJJeUuuMZsI3yT=
dsVkji8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
46451864&sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chceH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>
>> *Gyan
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250=
A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&sdata=3Db%2FrO=
XTZ8ayq5rzEPxpOlLuMfEvsw3FPbOVkqQUcnieQ%3D&reserved=3D0>Mishra*
>>
>>
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250=
A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&sdata=3DGLW4e%=
2BMcjf8oIZmuUXtgcfmzrB%2BBWqXsvDquWI492EU%3D&reserved=3D0>*Network
>> Solutions Architect *
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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S6%2FrAXm%2FEXMoo6dnGKM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446481860&sdata=3Dp0ttOIduJDiC0qR91gpSHhFnYJ=
6uVzJUJdV5qfOCPlw%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
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d=3D0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250=
A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446491855&sdata=3D2U%2B3=
C5vUgVYU0GgNHfX2GRpsPVMm43GWWqzxm%2BOdOKQ%3D&reserved=3D0>13101
>> Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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Ioq32a5UOw84kqLQw%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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D7JNdlKBF%2Bj%2B2WV8w%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
46511843&sdata=3DmlfQG0sJIh5NUKLahCziTmtrCWqimi13RAze0SXZ2cE%3D&reserved=3D=
0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446521838&sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zqPW4BNxxuyEQd%2F=
ky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC14%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
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ky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC14%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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MB5k2jEh%2BnprB5sh%2FvA%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
46541830&sdata=3DsTN2HQO64Um1VqZkhLZMa8Mi7S8WykmI%2BsqVNa921uI%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446541830&sdata=3DkvKt%2FhIAtw0TihRjOw2QUQws=
ciGPZsEvA7Ajyd8nu0Y%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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fa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446551824&sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfsgol2MPiv%2BtS3b=
fa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> --
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
46561816&sdata=3DfaawTrV7ADwTXxvf%2BKE9WX64z1r5ro%2B7bmfhRMbW2Xg%3D&reserve=
d=3D0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446571816&sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQMsm6kW0RSiWOhNdI=
Fc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc%3D&reserved=3D0>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
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Fc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww=
.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen=
%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753=
a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&sdata=3DuYQI13rtEKidJMaMnowsjiSAqb=
N3Ygeu4X2eQL7LCts%3D&reserved=3D0>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Sil=
ver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b4=
06057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044=
46581809&sdata=3DD7sb4GOCEOeHEvKNjVxo0Sy004BHtfqiE4k65sSuxiY%3D&reserved=3D=
0>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000002f696005a6466f66
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">Thinking about physical topology a little further as with th=
e FT algorithm it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical however =
the overall coverage is based on those basic parameters of degree number of=
 links and nodes as well as width and depth of the topology.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thinking about it further the clos le=
af spine DC style topology is much worse in terms of flooding due to physic=
al topology that leafs don=E2=80=99t physical connection and are interconne=
cted via the spine creating massive ECMP and overload of the spine super sp=
ine.=C2=A0 So the physical DC leaf spine topology really exacerbates the fl=
ooding due to the non full mesh nature of the topology. =C2=A0</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">With a service provider core which i=
s typically a mesh style multi tier multiple concentric circles mix of full=
 and partial mesh and hub spoke type physical topologies. =C2=A0</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So with flooding with full mesh ev=
ery node connects with every node so you don=E2=80=99t have an overload of =
flooding being funneled through a super spine as you do with a leaf spine D=
C architecture.=C2=A0 So in a full mesh which is the best case scenario for=
 flooding perspective from my point of view which each node as root connect=
s to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow the flooding scope and it=
=E2=80=99s pretty controlled and you can limit the redundant flooding.=C2=
=A0 When the physical topology changes to a much more partially meshed the =
ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the flooding and longer convergence =
time.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So I think in the =
slide deck and draft look at scenario where their is tremendous ECMP from p=
artial meshing and how the flood reduction algorithm improves the flooding =
and convergence.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind re=
gards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</=
div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabu=
sagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you for the slide deck.=C2=A0 That =
really helps understand the algorithm. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">I will let you=C2=A0know if I have any questions.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The goal of the algorithm i=
s to speed up convergence by limiting the convergence scope and expanding o=
ut 1 link at a time until all nodes and links are part of the flood scope.=
=C2=A0 From the examples in the slide deck I did not see mentioned what is =
done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when you have a meshed netwo=
rk in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flooding on redundant link=
s duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you iteratively grow the=
 FT nodes scope Cq().=C2=A0 I believe with the dynamic flooding it does a d=
egree of 2 so 2 links between nodes. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more inte=
nsive and problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that re=
sults in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.=C2=A0 Wi=
th spine leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth i=
s spine to leaf links.=C2=A0 With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the s=
pine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponenti=
ally and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Ch=
en &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaim=
o.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-sty=
le:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"=
ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family=
:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-=
serif">From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:13 PM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" =
target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">ls=
r@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:Cal=
ibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick =
diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorit=
hm is in Appendix.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts are=
 hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology ex=
amples. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf s=
pine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That would help.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d=
208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044463719=
00&amp;sdata=3DglKNEHI0pmavkJwY%2BykW0%2BArX10F74JP0WMEvG6FY88%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-l=
sr-flooding-reduction-08</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and =
starts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and wor=
k left to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with =
each node B with directly attached node R
 via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B from Cq until the FT is build for all n=
odes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching physical t=
opology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is=C2=
=A0<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West=
 European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Robo=
to,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;display:inline!important;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,255,255)">an
 iterative loop after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each no=
de whose D =3D 1 (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a n=
ode through a link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on F=
T to have its D &gt; 1. Page 5 of the
 attached slides shows some details for this loop.</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Seg=
oe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMac=
SystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;display:inline!impo=
rtant;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.2=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directl=
y connected nodes=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.</div></div></di=
v></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.h=
tml&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d2=
08d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725710444637190=
0&amp;sdata=3D0%2B33ORq8CFVJuZjTNSQwvI1UjK6W8xdcz%2FlOXsYMTxc%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-fl=
ooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is=
 geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf =
connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively bui=
ld out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or leaf spine lea=
f.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p>Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black=
">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mai=
l archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any particular dates in =
the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the questions I have so if =
all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft moving forward as flood =
reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both drafts will really help=
 large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS =
highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally with a large spine foot=
print - this is
 a much much needed feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of =
the workaround of using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous com=
plexity.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057=
d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381=
892&amp;sdata=3DiCY2RDNVQtNcoWRomiMNfyyVhtAf7DossHwlhuHdsM0%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4=
e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446381892&amp;sdata=
=3Dm%2FyOgcPdrBoA2ZPOs0jhC%2BT%2B4sxDes%2BooNO9hqQ1CIA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
 target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussio=
n late. It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=
From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduct=
ion.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators too=
lbox =C2=A0or competing features
 for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction features s=
tandardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for=
 operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446391897&amp;sdata=
=3DmyU2K8Y9ZPNxUZ6LhjTbIJDT5gZo0HBZGCMEwsad6CE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provi=
de two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed=
 mode). The latter describes
 the two modes, but does not include any flooding topology computation algo=
rithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a=C2=A0<span style=3D"b=
ackground-color:white">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used i=
n the distributed mode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for=
 both documents to reference each other as to how they play together or =C2=
=A0in some respects if any provide a homogeneous complete holistic solution=
 for flooding problem being solved.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is a good idea to have this new draft ref=
erence the dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic floodi=
ng draft provides a framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provi=
des a separate
 flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propose=
d in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virt=
ual interim which replaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to=
 combine both drafts so the solution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This w=
ill also make the overall specification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do t=
his.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a=
 common IGP solution, however there are many inherent differences between I=
SIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat li=
ke apples to apples
 but really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe it might we wise t=
o have separate draft for both and have references linking together as the =
same algorithm concept and mathematically however the actual code implement=
ation would vary as the LSDB link state data
 structures are completely different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Central=
ized leader based and distributed=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446401884&amp;sdata=3DA0He%2BkbFrye6L7vgdHjLIY50hzWE%2Bty0reMCMbE=
1QF0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This later draft per section excerpt provides =
both centralized and distributed algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257104446401884&amp;sdata=3DK%2BSin3SGk78gUaBME9B5UjYUncvtprSkvLZO=
F1UWxQE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span></=
a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
.=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257104446411879&amp;sdata=3DeqK0e8YFYfRgXo%2F6K%2BSPT3mCdFXDoME6gM=
LUp%2BcVjB4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"=
_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</spa=
n></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of what the given =
algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.c=
om%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0%7C637257104446411879&amp;sdata=3DkIqZH1iGc%2BVFx3SyBaja8Nedu2m7G4OlzH=
RKxp5Et4o%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for th=
is draft as well as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dyn=
amic flooding draft=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing =
that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA =
codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex a=
lgo codepoints
 I believe 0-127.=C2=A0 I would think the flooding algorithm range of value=
s is completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446421873&amp;sdata=3Ds6y04UJjyUATTDuUvKgFl9AtQzuNbV6vgkbeuQw1UNM=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-31045037482939211=
15m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-31045037482939211=
15m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with=
 [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-31045037482939211=
15m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divRpl=
yFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This is a much needed feature that operators h=
ave been needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data =
centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced =
feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologi=
es.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Please look at the feature description and it =
does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">There maybe other vendors due to industry dema=
nd have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor cons=
ensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fc=
ollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.=
html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d=
208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372571044464318=
87&amp;sdata=3DWiNe%2B5vVFxheyMEmT92pdJRtoA%2F2WGYtA7HT%2FlJs1J0%3D&amp;res=
erved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collate=
ral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">We are testing this feature and planning to de=
ploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standar=
ds track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;co=
lor:black">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft com=
pare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventu=
al standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features fo=
r optimized flood reduction. Would having
 two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood red=
uction feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing t=
o me.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DRirosOO%2BSH8U3Fyb9Ejxjv%2B%2BeeMwW8%2FHpOL=
kZGO8FN4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questi=
ons and support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">looding Topology
 Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs =
to compute the flooding topologies for the=C2=A0data center clos dense mesh=
ed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in th=
e centralized mode to compute the flooding
 topology. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-31045037482939211=
15m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_54=
43062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I support WG adoption and have a few questions=
 related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic f=
looding algorithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0=
 In the dynamic flooding
 algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the ar=
ea leader and distributed to all nodes.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode=
 the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the f=
looding topology based on the algorithm.
 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood red=
uction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely mesh=
ed ospf or Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would im=
proving overall link
 state routing protocol convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-system=
s.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9=
f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257104446441864&amp;sdata=3DfqmSXecEZOQbkD0lpbQ8BfAjXZvOZ8bzCWeEsfQojw4=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">______________________________________________=
_<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446451864&amp;sdata=3Dxg2AvQQfqPS228FUYFhK1=
ueJJeUuuMZsI3yTdsVkji8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446451864&amp;sdata=3Dh%2BrHjI5NY37uHQIjPKYv5GW6J6chceH6U3dbj3xwb7A%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"https:=
//nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co=
m%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446461859&amp;sdata=3Db%2FrOXT=
Z8ayq5rzEPxpOlLuMfEvsw3FPbOVkqQUcnieQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4=
e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&amp;sdata=
=3DGLW4e%2BMcjf8oIZmuUXtgcfmzrB%2BBWqXsvDquWI492EU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" tar=
get=3D"_blank"></a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black"=
>Network
 Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://w=
ww.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446471858&amp;sdata=3Dpsm7wBWSK%2=
BEtFkhnb9B3soi0S6%2FrAXm%2FEXMoo6dnGKM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446481860&amp;sdata=3Dp0ttOIduJDiC0qR91gpSHhFnYJ6uVzJUJdV5qfOCPlw%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446491855&amp;sdata=3Dik1xhwQyDjOvNfMg%2BQMAIIiMPkWlUER3K5q99T43c%2Fo%3D&am=
p;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtex=
t;padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7f=
df5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446491855&amp=
;sdata=3D2U%2B3C5vUgVYU0GgNHfX2GRpsPVMm43GWWqzxm%2BOdOKQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"htt=
ps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google=
.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpri=
ng%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40=
futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d=
5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446501852&amp;sdata=3DeCAT1E6b8XpInRH0rt3JhcsRL=
GIoq32a5UOw84kqLQw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif"=
 target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446511843&amp;sdata=3De6tNSbiepHHR7EJywi46nnEh2sD7JNdlKBF%2Bj%2B2WV8w=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/m=
aps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446511843&amp;sdata=3DmlfQG0sJIh5NUKLahCziTmtrCWqimi13RAze0SXZ2cE%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zq=
PW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446521838&amp;sdata=3D9u8%2Fhg6zqPW4BNxxuyEQd%2Fky69FmzGY7bwz7uZW%2FC=
14%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446531830&amp;sdata=3Dj7qLXVJD4j8=
%2FviHXL9MOvkB3MB5k2jEh%2BnprB5sh%2FvA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blan=
k"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><a href=3D"https://www=
.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Sprin=
g,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b=
406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104=
446541830&amp;sdata=3DsTN2HQO64Um1VqZkhLZMa8Mi7S8WykmI%2BsqVNa921uI%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446541830&amp;sdata=3DkvKt%2FhIAt=
w0TihRjOw2QUQwsciGPZsEvA7Ajyd8nu0Y%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446551824&amp;sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfsgol2MPiv%2BtS3bfa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446551824&amp;sdata=3Dw5mciZkFOfs=
gol2MPiv%2BtS3bfa7xI5KZj7WHYnxBFYM%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><=
/a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_=
blank">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb=
76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257=
104446561816&amp;sdata=3DfaawTrV7ADwTXxvf%2BKE9WX64z1r5ro%2B7bmfhRMbW2Xg%3D=
&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decoration:none;co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;c=
olor:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" id=3D"m_2=
269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748293921115_x0000_i1025=
" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." style=3D"width:0.8437in;height:0.1875in"=
></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></=
u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Arch=
itect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQM=
sm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8=
ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257104446571816&amp;sdata=3DdvcFR%2BGQMsm6kW0RSiWOhNdIFc8ntpHrhdAFFYqWi%2Fc=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DuYQI13rtEKi=
dJMaMnowsjiSAqbN3Ygeu4X2eQL7LCts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"></a=
></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_=
blank">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7Cc9f9e8ddb76b406057d208d7fdf5cb4e%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257104446581809&amp;sdata=3DD7sb4GOCEO=
eHEvKNjVxo0Sy004BHtfqiE4k65sSuxiY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"padding-bot=
tom:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img w=
idth=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px" src=3D"http://ss=
7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:blac=
k"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
 face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" style=3D"font-family:georgia,=
serif" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pik=
e+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">=
Silver Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D=
%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,8=
5,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
 height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"fon=
t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" styl=
e=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font><=
/i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--0000000000002f696005a6466f66--


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Reviewer: Michael Scharf
Review result: Ready

This document has been reviewed as part of the transport area review team's
ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written
primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the document's
authors and WG to allow them to address any issues raised and also to the IETF
discussion list for information.

When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this
review as part of the last-call comments they receive. Please always CC
tsv-art@ietf.org if you reply to or forward this review.

I have read this document as TSV-ART reviewer. As far as I can tell, there are
no transport area issues.




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References: <63330FD6-EDE8-4938-AA85-948279C57E34@cisco.com> <DM6PR06MB509842BA0E42A4938ACB2B94EEB80@DM6PR06MB5098.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3jQ=C6ynJBsKhJW_b=hkq7CKPFG2ci0vXE_0jZH9KtXQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117C43CA052E4E29D7428CBF2B60@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV2Y3kemTdHYBamZwAB+m5DefxqTC0shPan2cGHd9TARTg@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117E84C778B11D71FAF8135F2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV1W3EDJpqUjLGj3-E-8L1R=75oAgtHX==9qkfrvrZy2ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117A5E68B341A203266C64AF2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3e_qm=RmTQyQ+yCWN+pt_d1Aw8-W9gkRwH+_kAyphu8Q@mail.gmail.com> <424B17B1-D66D-4708-A819-855E972841AF@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2cDoNotaePw30eZa5wE61NC_vh8cFaZHh_nPqs1ibFsg@mail.gmail.com> <E093695B-78DE-4332-B4E7-87343077624E@cisco.com> <CABNhwV1cfOE+trZGM-s44xU0su5RUgL2c7ubRCdc3EFCWsdujw@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB31179DB87C96DA218F9EB1D0F2B40@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV0CC6wBrPkiA+vKjpX--JPBPfRzJ=0GDP3BqH4NPaecKQ@mail.gmail.com> <331DE9C9-BF8A-483D-B4D5-366D3FBF4C22@tony.li>
In-Reply-To: <331DE9C9-BF8A-483D-B4D5-366D3FBF4C22@tony.li>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 16:43:49 -0400
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To: tony.li@tony.li
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:02 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

>
> Hi Gyan,
>
> I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and
> problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in
> duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine lea=
f
> it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to l=
eaf
> links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the
> redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is mu=
ch
> worse then circular nodal mesh.
>
>
> One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes a flooding
> topology at the node level.  If the adjacency between A and B is on the
> flooding topology, then any single link between them may be used for
> flooding.  If you have 128 way parallel links, this is an immediate 128x
> improvement in flooding overhead.  What=E2=80=99s more, A and B do not ne=
ed to
> agree on which link they are using and can use different links, resulting
> in an asymmetric situation, without any loss of correctness or performanc=
e.
>

   Gyan>. Agreed.  The dynamic flooding really helps with X way ECMP
prevalent in high density data center clos multi tier leaf spine parial
mesh topologies that scale massive bandwidth breadth wise horizontally for
E-W flows.

>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:02 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.=
li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><d=
iv><br></div><div>Hi Gyan,</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;fon=
t-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:n=
ormal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:norm=
al;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">I think with clos spine leaf the =
mesh is much more intensive and problematic with ECMP then a circular topol=
ogy nodal mesh that results in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down=
 convergence.=C2=A0 With spine leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width=
 axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.=C2=A0 With spine leaf as you g=
row sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant fl=
ooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. =C2=
=A0</div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>One very nice thing about dynami=
c flooding is that it computes a flooding topology at the node level.=C2=A0=
 If the adjacency between A and B is on the flooding topology, then any sin=
gle link between them may be used for flooding.=C2=A0 If you have 128 way p=
arallel links, this is an immediate 128x improvement in flooding overhead.=
=C2=A0 What=E2=80=99s more, A and B do not need to agree on which link they=
 are using and can use different links, resulting in an asymmetric situatio=
n, without any loss of correctness or performance.=C2=A0</div></div></block=
quote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt;. =
Agreed.=C2=A0 The dynamic flooding really helps with X way ECMP prevalent i=
n high density data center clos multi tier leaf spine parial mesh topologie=
s that scale massive bandwidth breadth wise horizontally for E-W flows.</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-br=
eak:after-white-space"><div></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>To=
ny</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-botto=
m:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.co=
m/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=
=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0p=
x;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0=
px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;fon=
t-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1=
em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif=
">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, =
MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000334df805a656ce73--


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References: <63330FD6-EDE8-4938-AA85-948279C57E34@cisco.com> <DM6PR06MB509842BA0E42A4938ACB2B94EEB80@DM6PR06MB5098.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3jQ=C6ynJBsKhJW_b=hkq7CKPFG2ci0vXE_0jZH9KtXQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117C43CA052E4E29D7428CBF2B60@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV2Y3kemTdHYBamZwAB+m5DefxqTC0shPan2cGHd9TARTg@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117E84C778B11D71FAF8135F2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV1W3EDJpqUjLGj3-E-8L1R=75oAgtHX==9qkfrvrZy2ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB3117A5E68B341A203266C64AF2B70@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV3e_qm=RmTQyQ+yCWN+pt_d1Aw8-W9gkRwH+_kAyphu8Q@mail.gmail.com> <424B17B1-D66D-4708-A819-855E972841AF@cisco.com> <CABNhwV2cDoNotaePw30eZa5wE61NC_vh8cFaZHh_nPqs1ibFsg@mail.gmail.com> <E093695B-78DE-4332-B4E7-87343077624E@cisco.com> <CABNhwV1cfOE+trZGM-s44xU0su5RUgL2c7ubRCdc3EFCWsdujw@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR13MB31179DB87C96DA218F9EB1D0F2B40@MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <CABNhwV0CC6wBrPkiA+vKjpX--JPBPfRzJ=0GDP3BqH4NPaecKQ@mail.gmail.com> <331DE9C9-BF8A-483D-B4D5-366D3FBF4C22@tony.li> <CABNhwV3-rokZfwTGJi9fwe_DEoJB9L1cEUqz9FvCG4EFmLXFKQ@mail.gmail.com>
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:29:39 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV1XfWXbCidA5jMB9dOOoDtCuGRt33ttaFLRGDywZkyfSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com>, tony.li@tony.li
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/rl6QvBSdPUblCrDocV58v8ipeJM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Acee

Do you know if the dynamic flooding algorithm discussed during interim ietf
by Sarah and Toni is the same as the one implemented by Cisco on Nexus
platform or is Cisco=E2=80=99s Dynamic flooding a proprietary implementatio=
n?

Cisco=E2=80=99s flooding algorithm does seem almost identical to dynamic fl=
ooding.

Cisco Dynamic flooding - Nexus 9k

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html


Dynamic Flooding - Arista - Sarah & Toni

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html

Flood reduction- H Chen - WG adoption pending

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08


I know we are trying to adopt an flooding algorithm
and from my reading up on all proposed algorithms, the dynamic flooding
seems to be geared towards Data Center  partial mesh high x ECMP leaf spine
architecture, where redundant flooding is problematic using either
centralized area leader or distributed flooding using same dynamic
algorithm,  versus the call for adoption flood reduction algorithm seems to
geared towards full mesh but from what I can tell would not be the
preferred for clos multi tier DC leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths=
.

Why would we not want to adopt the best algorithm that is best for both
full mesh and non full mesh leaf spine topology algorithm that works for
all physical topologies and adopt that draft.

Unless a one size fits all won=E2=80=99t work I would like to understand wh=
y one
best solution draft we come up with for an FT algorithm for all possible
physical topologies cannot be picked for WG adoption.

Why would we want to adopt multiple flooding algorithms?

Gyan

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:02 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Gyan,
>>
>> I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and
>> problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results i=
n
>> duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine le=
af
>> it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to =
leaf
>> links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the
>> redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is m=
uch
>> worse then circular nodal mesh.
>>
>>
>> One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes a floodin=
g
>> topology at the node level.  If the adjacency between A and B is on the
>> flooding topology, then any single link between them may be used for
>> flooding.  If you have 128 way parallel links, this is an immediate 128x
>> improvement in flooding overhead.  What=E2=80=99s more, A and B do not n=
eed to
>> agree on which link they are using and can use different links, resultin=
g
>> in an asymmetric situation, without any loss of correctness or performan=
ce.
>>
>
>    Gyan>. Agreed.  The dynamic flooding really helps with X way ECMP
> prevalent in high density data center clos multi tier leaf spine parial
> mesh topologies that scale massive bandwidth breadth wise horizontally fo=
r
> E-W flows.
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tony
>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000007f182f05a66c66be
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Acee</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Do you know if the dynamic flooding algorithm discussed during=
 interim ietf by Sarah and Toni is the same as the one implemented by Cisco=
 on Nexus platform or is Cisco=E2=80=99s Dynamic flooding a proprietary imp=
lementation?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Cisco=E2=80=
=99s flooding algorithm does seem almost identical to dynamic flooding.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Cisco Dynamic flooding - Ne=
xus 9k</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"h=
ttps://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series=
-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/produc=
ts/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.ht=
ml</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Dynamic=
 Flooding - Arista - Sarah &amp; Toni</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding-algorithm-00.html">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding-algorithm-00.html</a></div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Flood red=
uction- H Chen - WG adoption pending=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I know we are trying to adopt=
 an flooding algorithm=C2=A0</div><div><div dir=3D"auto">and from my readin=
g up on all proposed algorithms, the dynamic flooding seems to be geared to=
wards Data Center =C2=A0partial mesh high x ECMP leaf spine architecture, w=
here redundant flooding is problematic using either centralized area leader=
 or distributed flooding using same dynamic algorithm, =C2=A0versus the cal=
l for adoption flood reduction algorithm seems to geared towards full mesh =
but from what I can tell would not be the preferred for clos multi tier DC =
leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">Why would we not want to adopt the best algorithm that =
is best for both full mesh and non full mesh leaf spine topology algorithm =
that works for all physical topologies and adopt that draft. =C2=A0</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Unless a one size fits all won=
=E2=80=99t work I would like to understand why one best solution draft we c=
ome up with for an FT algorithm for all possible physical topologies cannot=
 be picked for WG adoption.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">Why would we want to adopt multiple flooding algorithms?</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:43 PM G=
yan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><br></div><div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2=
020 at 9:02 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">ton=
y.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid=
;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style=3D"word-wr=
ap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>Hi Gyan,</d=
iv><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"auto" sty=
le=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-c=
aps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-i=
ndent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-deco=
ration:none">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive a=
nd problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results i=
n duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.=C2=A0 With spin=
e leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine=
 to leaf links.=C2=A0 With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine ex=
pand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially an=
d is much worse then circular nodal mesh. =C2=A0</div></div></blockquote><b=
r></div><div>One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes=
 a flooding topology at the node level.=C2=A0 If the adjacency between A an=
d B is on the flooding topology, then any single link between them may be u=
sed for flooding.=C2=A0 If you have 128 way parallel links, this is an imme=
diate 128x improvement in flooding overhead.=C2=A0 What=E2=80=99s more, A a=
nd B do not need to agree on which link they are using and can use differen=
t links, resulting in an asymmetric situation, without any loss of correctn=
ess or performance.=C2=A0</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt;. Agreed.=C2=A0 The dynamic flood=
ing really helps with X way ECMP prevalent in high density data center clos=
 multi tier leaf spine parial mesh topologies that scale massive bandwidth =
breadth wise horizontally for E-W flows.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div></div><div><br>=
</div><div>Regards,</div><div>Tony</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)=
"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"padding-bottom:1em;display:i=
nline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.=
vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" =
style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;=
margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-hei=
ght:13px;color:black"><b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Ar=
ial,sans-serif">Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;f=
ont-family:georgia,serif;color:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif=
">Network Solutions A</i></font><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font=
-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,ser=
if">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-=
height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=
=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/xiKQUOLgAqhxplwD8-G6iW1im0M>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,


> Do you know if the dynamic flooding algorithm discussed during interim =
ietf by Sarah and Toni is the same as the one implemented by Cisco on =
Nexus platform or is Cisco=E2=80=99s Dynamic flooding a proprietary =
implementation?


It appears not to be.  Our algorithm is not limited to leaf-spine =
topologies and has been tested against numerous other dense and sparse =
topologies.


> Why would we not want to adopt the best algorithm that is best for =
both full mesh and non full mesh leaf spine topology algorithm that =
works for all physical topologies and adopt that draft. =20


Proving that an algorithm is =E2=80=98optimal=E2=80=99 is going to be =
very difficult, both from a theoretical and market standpoint. As is =
frequently the case with IETF, we are proposing many ideas and trying to =
sort through them.


> Unless a one size fits all won=E2=80=99t work I would like to =
understand why one best solution draft we come up with for an FT =
algorithm for all possible physical topologies cannot be picked for WG =
adoption.
>=20
> Why would we want to adopt multiple flooding algorithms?


Adoption does not imply that it will be standardized.  It merely means =
that it=E2=80=99s part of the working group=E2=80=99s effort.  It is up =
to the WG and the market to decide which algorithms we should pursue.  =
Some may be enhanced, some may be revised, and some may be discarded. We =
can also adopt all of them and let the market sort it out.  That=E2=80=99s=
 probably not the optimal approach from a technological perspective, but =
making real decisions in the modern IETF is very hard.

Tony



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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/PUKB-zHLV2OnUifE3Pq0zIceISc>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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--_000_MN2PR13MB31170A83209564D545228B6EF2B30MN2PR13MB3117namp_
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline belo=
w.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 8:41 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Hi Huaimo

Thank you for the slide deck.  That really helps understand the algorithm.

I will let you know if I have any questions.

The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by limiting the conver=
gence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all nodes and links ar=
e part of the flood scope.  From the examples in the slide deck I did not s=
ee mentioned what is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when yo=
u have a meshed network in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flood=
ing on redundant links duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you=
 iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq().  I believe with the dynamic floo=
ding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes.
[HC]: The slide 5 example illustrates step 4 of the algorithm in section 4.=
1. When the algorithm reaches this step, all the nodes are  on the FT, but =
some of them may have degree of 1 (i.e., one link on the FT connected to th=
e node). This step makes sure that every node on the FT has degree of at le=
ast 2.  It seems that the dynamic flooding expects the FT having its every =
node with degree of at least 2 for redundancy. In the Dynamic Flooding on D=
ense Graphs, link states will be flooded over the links on the FT. For exam=
ple, for a node with degree of N (e.g., 3), when the node receives a link s=
tate from one link on the FT, it will flood the link state to the other N-1=
 (e.g., 3-1=3D2) links on the FT.

I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and problemati=
c with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate r=
edundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine leaf it=92s like=
 an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.  With sp=
ine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows=
 and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular=
 nodal mesh.
[HC]: In the slides, a full mess topology is used to illustrate the algorit=
hm in some details. The algorithm can be used to compute FT for any other t=
opology such as clos spine leaf. For topology with M (e.g., 100) parallel l=
inks between any pair of nodes X and Y, the algorithm will just add one lin=
k to the FT between X and Y, the other M - 1 (e.g., 100-1 =3D 99) links wil=
l not be added to the FT. Thus the link states will flood over only this on=
e link between X and Y on the FT and will not flood over the other M - 1 (e=
.g., 100 - 1 =3D 99) links, which are not on the FT.

Thank you

Gyan


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<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
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Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp;</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 22, 2020 8:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@=
ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you for the slide deck.&nbsp; That really helps und=
erstand the algorithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I will let you&nbsp;know if I have any questions.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by l=
imiting the convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all =
nodes and links are part of the flood scope.&nbsp; From the examples in the=
 slide deck I did not see mentioned what
 is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when you have a meshed n=
etwork in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flooding on redundant =
links duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you iteratively grow=
 the FT nodes scope Cq().&nbsp; I believe
 with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes. =
&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The slide 5&nbsp;example illustrates step 4 of the =
algorithm in section 4.1. When the algorithm reaches this step, all the nod=
es are&nbsp; on the FT, but some of them may have degree of 1 (i.e., one li=
nk on the FT connected to the node). This step
 makes sure that every node on the FT has degree of at least 2.&nbsp; It se=
ems that&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe=
 UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMa=
cSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-col=
or: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">the
 dynamic flooding expects the FT having its every node with degree of at le=
ast 2 for redundancy. In&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&qu=
ot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple=
-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif=
; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">the
 Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs, link states will be flooded over the lin=
ks on the FT. For example, for a node with degree of N (e.g., 3), when the =
node receives a link state from one link on the FT, it will flood the link =
state to the other N-1 (e.g., 3-1=3D2)
 links on the FT.&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intens=
ive and problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that resu=
lts in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.&nbsp; With=
 spine leaf it=92s like an X horizontal width
 axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.&nbsp; With spine leaf as you g=
row sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant fl=
ooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. &nbs=
p;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: In the slides, a full mess topology is used to illu=
strate the algorithm in some details. The algorithm can be used to compute =
FT for any other topology such as clos spine leaf. For topology with M (e.g=
., 100) parallel links between any
 pair of nodes X and Y, the algorithm will just add one link to the FT betw=
een X and Y, the other M - 1 (e.g., 100-1 =3D 99) links will not be added t=
o the FT. Thus the link states will flood over only this one link between X=
 and Y on the FT and will not flood
 over the other M - 1 (e.g., 100 - 1 =3D 99) links, which are not on the FT=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your comments and suggestions. My answers/explanations =
are inline below.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 9:11 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Hi Huaimo

Thinking about physical topology a little further as with the FT algorithm =
it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical however the overall cov=
erage is based on those basic parameters of degree number of links and node=
s as well as width and depth of the topology.
[HC]: We may add/think more about physical topology and reduce/simplify the=
 description about parameters in the draft.

Thinking about it further the clos leaf spine DC style topology is much wor=
se in terms of flooding due to physical topology that leafs don=92t physica=
l connection and are interconnected via the spine creating massive ECMP and=
 overload of the spine super spine.  So the physical DC leaf spine topology=
 really exacerbates the flooding due to the non full mesh nature of the top=
ology.
[HC]: You are right. The clos leaf spine topology is much worse. The algori=
thm in the draft can be used to compute FT for the clos leaf spine topology=
 and reduce the number of links used for flooding significantly.

With a service provider core which is typically a mesh style multi tier mul=
tiple concentric circles mix of full and partial mesh and hub spoke type ph=
ysical topologies.

So with flooding with full mesh every node connects with every node so you =
don=92t have an overload of flooding being funneled through a super spine a=
s you do with a leaf spine DC architecture.  So in a full mesh which is the=
 best case scenario for flooding perspective from my point of view which ea=
ch node as root connects to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow the=
 flooding scope and it=92s pretty controlled and you can limit the redundan=
t flooding.  When the physical topology changes to a much more partially me=
shed the ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the flooding and longer con=
vergence time.

So I think in the slide deck and draft look at scenario where their is trem=
endous ECMP from partial meshing and how the flood reduction algorithm impr=
oves the flooding and convergence.
[HC]: They should have more scenarios including clos spine leafs. The reaso=
n for not having them in the draft is that "drawing" topology of clos spine=
 leaf to illustrate the algorithm in details is very hard.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:h=
ayabusagsm@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Huaimo

Thank you for the slide deck.  That really helps understand the algorithm.

I will let you know if I have any questions.

The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by limiting the conver=
gence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all nodes and links ar=
e part of the flood scope.  From the examples in the slide deck I did not s=
ee mentioned what is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when yo=
u have a meshed network in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flood=
ing on redundant links duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you=
 iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq().  I believe with the dynamic floo=
ding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes.

I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and problemati=
c with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate r=
edundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine leaf it=92s like=
 an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.  With sp=
ine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows=
 and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular=
 nodal mesh.

Thank you

Gyan

On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

    Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline belo=
w.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a minim=
um.
[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorithm is in Appendix.
I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow without=
 a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.

Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier) and=
 CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=92s.

>From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached.

That would help.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306983861&sdata=3DIFYiJFuxf4U=
AMRmjxDf%2BTICOWslqJxCWjWwYYJM%2F6uQ%3D&reserved=3D0>

4.1

Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue


For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.

My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any no=
de in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to right or=
 vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with direct=
ly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the FT is bu=
ild for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching ph=
ysical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.
[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is an iterative loop aft=
er every node is added to FT. This loop connects each node whose D =3D 1 (i=
.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a link =
on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on FT to have its D > 1=
. Page 5 of the attached slides shows some details for this loop.

4.2


1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
          D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };

This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected nodes
[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html<h=
ttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf=
.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306988838&sdata=3DDlhahSNtm%2=
Ft406GcNtbGGq7uhFKfAqHO72Cm0vQdIo8%3D&reserved=3D0>

My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.

So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards le=
af spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.

For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two s=
pines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT topo=
logy 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.

Kind regards

Gyan

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
Cc: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>, "lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call





Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in the =
discussion for this.



If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful.



No =96 it was more an =93evolution=94 than an =93epiphany=94.



That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives th=
en I am all set.



I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed feat=
ure.



I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any ov=
erlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that sca=
les out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much much nee=
ded feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of usi=
ng BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.



Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/=
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm%2F&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C=
0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306993818&sdata=3Df93gT=
dRXOpDko4jB0G%2B1Ixebs%2FrDHfmJ7WCWExPD5EI%3D&reserved=3D0>



You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://nam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%=
2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurew=
ei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&sdata=3Dy7jC5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyA=
C4kFJDpfY%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,

Acee









Kind regards



Gyan



On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com>> wrote:

Speaking as WG Co-chair:



Hi Gyan,



I guess you=92ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good idea to re=
view the LSR mailing list archives.



From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>, "lsr@ietf.org<mail=
to:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call







On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thanks much for your questions.



 Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction. =
 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  or c=
ompeting features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood red=
uction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature=
 be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&sdata=3Dy7jC5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pS=
lh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&reserved=3D0>



    [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide two =
modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode).=
 The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding topo=
logy computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former proposes a =
flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed mode.



   Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other as=
 to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a homogeneou=
s complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.



It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding but=
 not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a framework f=
or any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate flooding topolog=
y. This algorithm is just the first to be formally proposed in a draft. Not=
e that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virtual interim which=
 replaced IETF 107.



In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the s=
olution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall specific=
ation flow nicely.



No =96 we=92re not going to do this.



Thanks,

Acee



I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution, however=
 there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that from IGP Li=
nk state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples but reall=
y it=92s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft=
 for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm concep=
t and mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as t=
he LSDB link state data structures are completely different.



Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and distrib=
uted



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307003777&sdata=3Db5DAj1yMUCRnkNtCjslcw8%2B=
hFQvZDFS%2FQZ1j9eRX5ts%3D&reserved=3D0>



This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and distribu=
ted algorithm see below



6.4<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db8440=
8d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307008751=
&sdata=3DjKC3VcXH%2Bo64b4sgsoce8QmETmJm4vLNdCucfrLyCAg%3D&reserved=3D0>.  A=
rea Leader Responsibilities



   If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise

   algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic

   Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding

   topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding

   topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network

   with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader

   operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding

   topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old

   flooding topologies.



   If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a

   non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.



   When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-

   TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is

   disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader

   intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.



   Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks

   destabilizing the network.



6.5<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23secti=
on-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db8440=
8d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307013733=
&sdata=3D1XXbBG%2Fo%2Ft6zGyxqPQdbMZQLET3%2FaxrKj516zl1Ayn8%3D&reserved=3D0>=
.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation



   If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader

   Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the

   value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the

   flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.



   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the

   Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as

   defined by the protocol.



   Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the

   Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by

   the Area Leader.



   If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from

   the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsibi=
lity of the

network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common unde=
rstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.



Former =3D WG LC

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307018706&sdata=3Dzf%2FK80oG8=
tz90g15eVrkGeyGc5fhBym5PJezCFfSi9A%3D&reserved=3D0>



Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the algor=
ithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft



Separate question-



In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of section=
 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved for flood=
ing unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I believe 0-12=
7.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely sepa=
rate since a different function then flex algo values.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307023687&sdata=3DMkDKud9pIJUwwoN%2F7w71fnO=
Xfwu38sk4qwkGmDspUKI%3D&reserved=3D0>





Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM

To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call







On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC].



Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com=
>>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org>>; lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:=
lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



Huaimo



This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.

[HC]: Thank you very much.



Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic flooding =
in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.



Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.

[HC]: It seems different.



There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.



https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7=
feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307028662&sd=
ata=3DNM0O3bq44tQ5GxZWm08rVjOh34mJjI1QsQ8DKFMgrAI%3D&reserved=3D0>



We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.

[HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense Grap=
hs", which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm..



    Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reductio=
n.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators toolbox  o=
r competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood =
reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feat=
ure be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing to me.





https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307033643&sdata=3Dtk5GwzA0o%2Bheui0Hl3nIpNw=
mNXM0QW%2FEXRbDQav8y54%3D&reserved=3D0>



Kind regards



Gyan





On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com<mai=
lto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>> wrote:

Hi Gyan,



    Thank you very much for your questions and support.



    This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the Dynamic=
 Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for the data c=
enter clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can be used by =
the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the flooding topology.



Best Regards,

Huaimo

________________________________

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
To: Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com>>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call





I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.



Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in dat=
a center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the flood =
is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding algorithm=
 mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader =
and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode the area leade=
r determines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topolog=
y based on the algorithm.



This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the amoun=
t of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis topologies.  =
So this optimization of flooding would improving overall link state routing=
 protocol convergence.



Gyan



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com<mailto:yfa=
n@casa-systems.com>> wrote:

Support it as a co-author.



Thanks,

Yanhe



From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of =
Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flood=
ing-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =93Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Please issue your support or obje=
ction to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL for yo=
ur convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/<https://n=
am11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf=
.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307038619&sdata=3DRg7ZsHHsYJnJS7SpYUCLRsrDZ=
86Gi0iyKD2vMcjbboM%3D&reserved=3D0>



Thanks,
Acee

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
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Gyan Mishra

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Gyan Mishra

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD


--_000_MN2PR13MB3117FEC5B0C03845F5B49A96F2B30MN2PR13MB3117namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
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</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your comments and suggestions. My answers/exp=
lanations are inline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 22, 2020 9:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@=
ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thinking about physical topology a little further as with=
 the FT algorithm it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical howev=
er the overall coverage is based on those basic parameters of degree number=
 of links and nodes as well as width
 and depth of the topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: We may add/think more about <span style=3D"font-fam=
ily: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;=
Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica =
Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inli=
ne !important">
physical&nbsp;</span>topology and reduce/simplify the description about <sp=
an style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West Eur=
opean)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Robo=
to, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255,=
 255); display: inline !important">
parameters in the draft</span>.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thinking about it further the clos leaf spine DC style to=
pology is much worse in terms of flooding due to physical topology that lea=
fs don=92t physical connection and are interconnected via the spine creatin=
g massive ECMP and overload of the spine
 super spine.&nbsp; So the physical DC leaf spine topology really exacerbat=
es the flooding due to the non full mesh nature of the topology. &nbsp;</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: You are right. The&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family:=
 &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue=
&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !=
important">clos
 leaf spine&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Se=
goe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, Blin=
kMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; background-=
color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">topology&nbsp;is muc=
h worse.
 The algorithm in the draft can be used to compute FT for the clos leaf spi=
ne topology and reduce the number of links used for flooding significantly.=
&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">With a service provider core which is typically a mesh st=
yle multi tier multiple concentric circles mix of full and partial mesh and=
 hub spoke type physical topologies. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So with flooding with full mesh every node connects with =
every node so you don=92t have an overload of flooding being funneled throu=
gh a super spine as you do with a leaf spine DC architecture.&nbsp; So in a=
 full mesh which is the best case scenario
 for flooding perspective from my point of view which each node as root con=
nects to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow the flooding scope and=
 it=92s pretty controlled and you can limit the redundant flooding.&nbsp; W=
hen the physical topology changes to a
 much more partially meshed the ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the =
flooding and longer convergence time.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So I think in the slide deck and draft look at scenario w=
here their is tremendous ECMP from partial meshing and how the flood reduct=
ion algorithm improves the flooding and convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: They should have more&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-fami=
ly: &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;S=
egoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica N=
eue&quot;, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inlin=
e !important">scenarios
 including clos spine leafs. The reason for not having them in the draft is=
 that &quot;drawing&quot; topology of clos spine leaf to illustrate the alg=
orithm in details is very hard.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gya=
n Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left=
:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you for the slide deck.&nbsp; That really helps und=
erstand the algorithm. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I will let you&nbsp;know if I have any questions.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by l=
imiting the convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all =
nodes and links are part of the flood scope.&nbsp; From the examples in the=
 slide deck I did not see mentioned what
 is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when you have a meshed n=
etwork in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flooding on redundant =
links duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you iteratively grow=
 the FT nodes scope Cq().&nbsp; I believe
 with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes. =
&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intens=
ive and problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that resu=
lts in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.&nbsp; With=
 spine leaf it=92s like an X horizontal width
 axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.&nbsp; With spine leaf as you g=
row sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant fl=
ooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. &nbs=
p;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Hu=
aimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank=
">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037divRplyFwdMsg" dir=
=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:13 PM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" styl=
e=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick =
diagram at a minimum. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorit=
hm is in Appendix.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math &nbsp;minor and both drafts are=
 hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology ex=
amples. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf s=
pine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=92s.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That would help.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84=
408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372579313069838=
61&amp;sdata=3DIFYiJFuxf4UAMRmjxDf%2BTICOWslqJxCWjWwYYJM%2F6uQ%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction-08" shash=3D"LUOT/zByipUg&#43;4kGu37IY0i0vXrbcRKBv79Iliy=
Rqzwna94IUjeDOZEVpWaqtC1miHrUJGI&#43;iO/xrMAMjiw42wv2DE6XQ46gpuUGZ1eKoueKOf=
RcV/HLQEmEpOXgV4qsgl48Co3/AFEYBaxIwu61Bh/EfK3rRIjT8FyS1KEUia8=3D" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduct=
ion-08</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.1&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; font-family:&quot;PT Mo=
no&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0px 0px 1em; margin-to=
p:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:break-all; word-wrap=
:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radiu=
s:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; backg=
round-color:white">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to ma=
ximum=0A=
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R=0A=
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and=0A=
       increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and =
starts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and wor=
k left to right or vice versa.&nbsp; For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with =
each node B with directly attached node R
 via link L.&nbsp; Increment node B from Cq until the FT is build for all n=
odes.&nbsp; Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching physical t=
opology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is&nbs=
p;<span style=3D"display:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
)">an iterative loop after every node is added to FT. This loop connects ea=
ch node whose D =3D 1 (i.e., there is only
 one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a link on FT (i.e., add t=
he link to FT) to make every node on FT to have its D &gt; 1. Page 5 of the=
 attached slides shows some details for this loop.</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"display:inline!important; background-color=
:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.2&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box; overflow:auto; font-family:&quot;PT Mo=
no&quot;,Monaco,monospace; font-size:10.5pt; padding:0px 0px 1em; margin-to=
p:0px; margin-bottom:0px; line-height:1.12; word-break:break-all; word-wrap=
:break-word; border:0px; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radiu=
s:4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; backg=
round-color:white">1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A i=
n Cq that is=0A=
       not on FT and one PH's D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH's D &lt; PH's ConMa=
xD.=0A=
=0A=
       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT=0A=
=0A=
       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH'=
s=0A=
          D &lt; PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs=0A=
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH's D &lt; PH's ConMaxD), PH's D&#43;&#43;=
, and add A=0A=
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.=0A=
=0A=
       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the=0A=
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, &#43;&#43;Ma=
xD,=0A=
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directl=
y connected nodes&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.h=
tml&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db844=
08d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725793130698883=
8&amp;sdata=3DDlhahSNtm%2Ft406GcNtbGGq7uhFKfAqHO72Cm0vQdIo8%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-floodin=
g-algorithm-00.html" shash=3D"hHjY7S/IaMKFXRY0zhxRC50b/N3yXyBSBkWlKUM3W9Mg5=
XglTZsWZ7JqSYGq5fITkNLTG&#43;jwukBa&#43;MPlrz2hB1fS&#43;Q/bh7&#43;vUJVH7pLp=
1ybVDn8VB6wdTHGfH7MO0FLxpXKrxXT&#43;U5IPfSJLJoKEI22u&#43;03Tsn9/wvILt7kT3ic=
=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flood=
ing-algorithm-00.html</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is=
 geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf =
connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively bui=
ld out the FT topology 3 node arch &nbsp;spine leaf spine or leaf spine lea=
f.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width:1px; borde=
r-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p>Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:blac=
k">From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mai=
l archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any particular dates in =
the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p>No =96 it was more an =93evolution=94 than an =93epiphany=94. <u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the questions I have so if =
all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft moving forward as flood =
reduction is a much needed feature. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both drafts will really help=
 large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS =
highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally with a large spine foot=
print - this is a much much needed
 feature.&nbsp; This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of u=
sing BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p>Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db8=
4408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306993=
818&amp;sdata=3Df93gTdRXOpDko4jB0G%2B1Ixebs%2FrDHfmJ7WCWExPD5EI%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dy=
namic-flooding-algorithm/" shash=3D"fIxURJzynK0sZyc&#43;SDvbTVY/tE8WHhCL5e5=
PkJIM6ukwkhGRyEVCkNv4o3l1f1BiyWTdRqx3UO6HDoOutxdoZ9/P41HYfvTRqYKwhtFuhKTEju=
Tv3jP0GasFKCzCenfuZwMNiBSVEF0jn9taj/JxPuzE&#43;wlWlHTaKtM9U4OIxWc=3D" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p>You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in <a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%=
7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fe=
e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&amp;sdata=3Dy7jC=
5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" shas=
h=3D"YhMLQ8OzipiI4CqlityS9TypS1qy1oOLaRzu2nLJzPvxsaadWiZOIaY5FBElrQu/aqUbiS=
AVWPp/DkEAEdmpZxO7oNiJSO1hRV98MXr7eYD0h2tmocG1s076YnydCstJpXP6EkhYuAV7om1a9=
rHWtDRCKOKSbcNDcILlUD7ij6A=3D" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p>Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I guess you=92ve joined this discussion late=
. It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black"=
>From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Hi=
 Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduc=
tion.&nbsp; Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators to=
olbox &nbsp;or competing features for optimized flood
 reduction. Would having two flood reduction features standardized versus o=
ne default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.&nbsp; Ju=
st as it was confusing to me.&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black"><a=
 href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&amp;sdata=
=3Dy7jC5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" origi=
nalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/=
" shash=3D"YhMLQ8OzipiI4CqlityS9TypS1qy1oOLaRzu2nLJzPvxsaadWiZOIaY5FBElrQu/=
aqUbiSAVWPp/DkEAEdmpZxO7oNiJSO1hRV98MXr7eYD0h2tmocG1s076YnydCstJpXP6EkhYuAV=
7om1a9rHWtDRCKOKSbcNDcILlUD7ij6A=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp; &nbsp; [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can prov=
ide two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distribute=
d mode). The latter describes the two modes, but
 does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm for the distr=
ibuted mode. The former proposes a&nbsp;<span style=3D"background-color:whi=
te">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed m=
ode.&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for=
 both documents to reference each other as to how they play together or &nb=
sp;in some respects if any provide a homogeneous complete holistic solution=
 for flooding problem being solved. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is a good idea to have this new draft ref=
erence the dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic floodi=
ng draft provides a framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provi=
des a separate flooding topology.
 This algorithm is just the first to be formally proposed in a draft. Note =
that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virtual interim which r=
eplaced IETF 107. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to=
 combine both drafts so the solution is complete and holistic.&nbsp; This w=
ill also make the overall specification flow nicely. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">No =96 we=92re not going to do this. <u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a=
 common IGP solution, however there are many inherent differences between I=
SIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat li=
ke apples to apples but really it=92s
 apples and oranges.&nbsp; Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft fo=
r both and have references linking together as the same algorithm concept a=
nd mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as the =
LSDB link state data structures are completely
 different.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Central=
ized leader based and distributed&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307003777&amp;sdata=3Db5DAj1yMUCRnkNtCjslcw8%2BhFQvZDFS%2FQZ1j9eR=
X5ts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" shash=3D"GvzSARFViasNbkcqkhNPjSMx9WNocoaOU=
qj10U9hcCwMcdymF6lNhoi1CVXcMXQEHqmCFVOgOQc4Iv77tqwk8yHRMzeGV0TJpK/3vMdu7hAp=
Kr22p5MbJllxbbWlBo5NeupMtPktaMj4n2RBhm03PJSQXemXeiysalQtgbOL&#43;I8=3D" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This later draft per section excerpt provides =
both centralized and distributed algorithm see below&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"=
font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:monospa=
ce; color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/=
?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-05%23section-6.4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei=
.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C0%7C637257931307008751&amp;sdata=3DjKC3VcXH%2Bo64b4sgsoce8QmETmJm4vLN=
dCucfrLyCAg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.4" shash=3D"vZYJBH&=
#43;QOqNfk7f5CrG4a5FViovpJ&#43;H6QCdQcCMSoef2oGYmA4yMtP&#43;lMhexnULq4qjTrZ=
ZlpwIozFixeiEXPYhMPrjyfircrwxJ04vfGMsbsxAnnok4hDauIhP8FzAi0gJQACCi7LFg3R3hp=
xUuBP4hJbg2p/eyvWtjLv/2KHI=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace; color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span=
></a>.&nbsp; Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font=
-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader operates in ce=
ntralized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Su=
b-TLV.&nbsp; In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Flooding to be enabled it also MU=
ST compute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology for the area.&nbsp; The =
Area Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology at any time, however, it=
 should not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; with undue or overly frequent top=
ology changes.&nbsp; If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; operates in centralized mode and =
needs to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; topology, it floods the new flood=
ing topology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; flooding topologies.</span><u sty=
le=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader operates in di=
stributed mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; non-zero algorithm in its Area Le=
ader Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font=
-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; When the Area Leader advertises a=
lgorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; TLV and does not advertise a floo=
ding topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; disabled for the area.&nbsp; Note=
 this applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospa=
ce"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; intends to operate in centralized=
 mode or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Note that once Dynamic Flooding i=
s enabled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; destabilizing the network.</span>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"=
font-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:monospa=
ce; color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/=
?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding-05%23section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei=
.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C0%7C637257931307013733&amp;sdata=3D1XXbBG%2Fo%2Ft6zGyxqPQdbMZQLET3%2F=
axrKj516zl1Ayn8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05#section-6.5" shash=3D"uL9=
94ehCbwf0hW&#43;KhDDkk7tt0b4a2ucEOcUocfUu8ClHextY6xvOx2a9LD0yrNEdEJ8SdQnc6E=
f6HFZRFbYLGivTmLP2hEvZY9u2Lqkzm04Cin55mWvJ3de52&#43;RXXFvqvZTiSdoDBHm8hqEpI=
DVp0ZIk6Y5ElaGOH&#43;shkuimQBM=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:m=
onospace"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace; color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</=
span></a>.&nbsp; Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the Area Leader advertises a n=
on-zero algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area th=
at support Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; value of algorithm advertised by =
the Area Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; flooding topology based on the Ar=
ea Leader's advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Nodes that do not support the val=
ue of algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Area Leader MUST continue to use =
standard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; defined by the protocol.</span><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Nodes that do not support the val=
ue of algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace">=
</u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; Area Leader MUST be considered as=
 Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; the Area Leader.</span><u style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace=
"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; If the value of the algorithm adv=
ertised by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; font-family:monospace;=
 background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot=
;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; the range 128-254 (private distri=
buted algorithms), it is the responsibility of the&nbsp;</span><u style=3D"=
font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; box-sizing:border-box;=
 word-wrap:break-word; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radius:=
4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; overflo=
w:auto; font-family:monospace; background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">network operator=
 to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of wha=
t the given algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monos=
pace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in; word-break:break-all; box-sizing:border-box;=
 word-wrap:break-word; border-top-left-radius:4px; border-top-right-radius:=
4px; border-bottom-right-radius:4px; border-bottom-left-radius:4px; overflo=
w:auto; font-family:monospace; background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;; color:black">&nbsp;</span><u =
style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
</pre>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Former =3D WG LC&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.c=
om%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0%7C637257931307018706&amp;sdata=3Dzf%2FK80oG8tz90g15eVrkGeyGc5fhBym5PJ=
ezCFfSi9A%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08" shash=3D"JOa9Sr5gn9riBbWcuNTbt=
dZbPfRJc47VTWYt3/jWBGH0VJvi&#43;XiIKKPgSXsTbFnqHo6Of&#43;Wsmy/cxgnU&#43;7DQ=
9U4/ov3cHsjvxWJ4J51cYF254S7wBE8qlK3G83yhEr7XBAMf/fcWsSOuEkcFXeILE&#43;qtg09=
AHUvMH/hHQGnv/Lg=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm=
l/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for th=
is draft as well as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dyn=
amic flooding draft&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing =
that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA =
codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex a=
lgo codepoints I believe 0-127.&nbsp; I
 would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely separate =
since a different function then flex algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307023687&amp;sdata=3DMkDKud9pIJUwwoN%2F7w71fnOXfwu38sk4qwkGmDspU=
KI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm=
l/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07" shash=3D"WPX&#43;b&#43;fgYsUnTvHzWqPae3OgoET=
fz3THBB42iMPuXxUu4nXdmj4UyhhmM8rxWlHGzl2hIiycsNlBQbNofdffrLZgh41YQ6fshTzDwz=
Y9KMtzA/ULH1j5XVdaqtyci5oOe2WHpRJ45Zy8AjjLFKRAU/0j4&#43;V6gMTD8XtMLKKzSQI=
=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr=
-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Be=
st Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Hu=
aimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-310450374829392=
1115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-310450374829392=
1115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
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<div>
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<div>
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<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Hi=
 Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp; &nbsp; Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below wit=
h [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Be=
st Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">Hu=
aimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-310450374829392=
1115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490divR=
plyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Huaimo&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This is a much needed feature that operators h=
ave been needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data =
centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced =
feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologi=
es.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Please look at the feature description and it =
does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please confirm.&nbsp;=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: It seems different.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">There maybe other vendors due to industry dema=
nd have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor cons=
ensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fc=
ollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.=
html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84=
408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372579313070286=
62&amp;sdata=3DNM0O3bq44tQ5GxZWm08rVjOh34mJjI1QsQ8DKFMgrAI%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/swit=
ches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html" shash=3D"NALql=
Za9T1QvRWuTBkz8/ZOzs4MQvL3ms6dfgnHE65qf8wlkKd6doNIEw6Teox5EWvbVOg1Kn8kMFHmV=
tA46MPUev8/QpYGIaNBG2/cTUD/Jfhpi3jNDKgNVNamEl0KAUKNXbM&#43;FaT484//jJzK/PNB=
xAIqaztWeYopWbt8buqs=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/pr=
oducts/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-74301=
5.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">We are testing this feature and planning to de=
ploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standar=
ds track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white; c=
olor:black">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; How does this draft com=
pare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.&nbsp; Would they be two eventu=
al standard options in the operators toolbox &nbsp;or competing features fo=
r optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction
 features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be co=
nfusing for operators.&nbsp; Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp; &nbsp; <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307033643&amp;sdata=3Dtk5GwzA0o%2Bheui0Hl3nIpNwmNXM0QW%2FEXRbDQav=
8y54%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/" shash=3D"QwiUY6&#43;zBmRFcrC3ziFSlOyJH&#43=
;mwPAAxOExGODs4p6joI7UDCMqSZRvQ2FqIoXQ1S7ajP&#43;TjoM2FczNQOTYmRRBjxUk1pG8g=
JoFJtqC9CBb80TFtCbXP5TO5h05lvXm1RqHLIY1dWaIAWtam/BJCBe&#43;hDCbSIBhNJQUeWr3=
tzFM=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-=
dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Kind regards&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif; color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you very much for your ques=
tions and support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; color:black">&n=
bsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; This F</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; background-color:white; color:rgb(=
50,49,48)">looding Topology Computation algorithm
 can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the floodin=
g topologies for the&nbsp;data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to =
compute the flooding topology. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">&nbsp;</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif; color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt; font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif; color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in; text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-310450374829392=
1115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-2546997010845183490x_m_=
5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I support WG adoption and have a few questions=
 related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic f=
looding algorithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.&nbsp;=
 In the dynamic flooding algorithm mentioned
 in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distri=
buted to all nodes.&nbsp; In distributed mode each mode the area leader det=
ermines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topology bas=
ed on the algorithm. &nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood red=
uction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely mesh=
ed ospf or Isis topologies.&nbsp; So this optimization of flooding would im=
proving overall link state routing protocol
 convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-system=
s.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt; padding:3=
pt 0in 0in; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =93Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm=94 draft. Plea=
se issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<=
sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307038619&amp;sdata=3DRg7ZsHHsYJnJS7SpYUCLRsrDZ86Gi0iyKD2vMcjbboM=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" shash=3D"JBFxej2SU1AQHG/W/&#43;QGSQxrlulPqiVAi=
HAqv96ce/mXwTMKPpBBDl82Kj0qsxg5JdGI0qKpX&#43;iBCn3xkcKHA4DxMNrtSNCL4EBt8DNK=
NdQOBVMoB29Jh3XbJqknNwnBX4xTBmknMGD4MrVvKyGI7HFaxFdi&#43;gloT7uu2Rxa2Uw=3D"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-r=
eduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">______________________________________________=
_<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
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n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307043598&amp;sdata=3DJDfLRjkZ4PI%2BwVcV0Mm=
0LXqq4Pzl3wz7BWWpv0zTtq0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" shash=3D"raxgezIL4IkeiCTPNRCYbyce1bQbGvTvJqiiE=
Y3FEmoitRTK76ClyrwI6sdNvow1xQvUJqEgTTE2gpHIH38&#43;o9b3OkC&#43;4t8XQjt/SszI=
n30Qv9Aj/&#43;BigJxcphq7E6gS1bgXMolNcdcVcgAHi5oHWL2Qj9fEyLUST4rh&#43;1PCEmk=
=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
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ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
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</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C0%7C637257931307083424&amp;sdata=3DKSSlepfFHvtyqtOAbwIAdqkXy9RF%2FdOf=
o7%2FDz5RHp7k%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43=
;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"ooGq52l5hiXtp2M&#43;jSCltyc8GEg8=
iSAIbPWLL60GyyJLW/5x/JTloKwi0ojyQHP2sJTc8daPke4gwpoe/cbobILfO&#43;nvQWg9Y2S=
qKZeeqCL0ePjFo2E1h3Hnkm2dN23EE7skNkpMsLH/xQUZemcn5rbM3ZBpGzmWyCy3HbIsGJs=3D=
" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307088401&amp;sdata=3D8N6QAF6sCbXNbIhQQDT%2B7LbdWxWK5PX5kcfqeSA8PW0%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101=
&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgma=
il&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"nl6V8pTqbbSWLGKVh9TV5t0YZ2yDBMW3L6b8sR7vIcJguOv=
PKwrSFGHmQAfbbFr3sV0u3hRbKd0UX6rMwmGYMBBj6Od2PbVLPc4xU90io7jyzhX99tUyo91tei=
FDVzXVKERDylElQB40faALoH9g/94ycN1wpDZOGI5jZvek9K8=3D" target=3D"_blank">Sil=
ver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307093381&amp=
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 originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Columbia=
&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;=
source=3Dg" shash=3D"H6rWZ73O7CVakzkpAZgz77AYyZVZmRF0zWWcKDEmSXfN2Rw2QD0Cca=
qFO98l1ZAieuAzVq4TgKF/l1Xgd3MWSjZbxocdfkDLWdQ3yZEwEeGVO1m87deizK3uDRAxSaVPz=
ThN&#43;zGXHa/NM5Bi8ph3LrYzC8P2yI9J0MG2Si60ZAM=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></=
div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307098359&amp;sdata=3DRFI30Fh8pkVGzCIo0t%2FuhBIYcu6cFYMQnfAKH9TCXXM%3D&amp;=
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9MKT/ncxsk6LrmxmBNlEiaI0u9b5sBkgKF/&#43;DvbpiCCJ2tsmHBUjc8sMKPhD5KZZvBpFpm4=
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in; border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-width:1=
pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color:rg=
b(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions Arc=
hitect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307103340&amp;sdata=3DJJvVXt2V%2B=
4qdM6D8hsCCltvguXzAGUPqzJAF2cSurVo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"CtfCqtBReIQ=
x3riKVZ4TpgB9SsmmBDa/ITaG83bimkhexFNvr4277VUp8/AUP8V8gvLyx8x9SR0Rl1Vs9XL6VV=
o/A2n5JsYsud4uKfPIk&#43;4oEB7Ba63mtnlhLaxzkhZfEmybgb8Imz2IWSCsQlf&#43;GTslv=
B8N&#43;qTB4pcLLoZlfsE=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,s=
erif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307108314&amp;sdata=3DzZ9exHtpFs%2B7d%2BTLGDwewg8ogHEksDYKQ%2FlHoXfS5=
R4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/1=
3101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"QKywyJxhgyuJGuDWBIahyPVyE6S3LcYak&#43;Ex7=
GXBPuMSx0PqGwLjx0KEtn5QX9RqYQNZdHickgxxUO0PGzP&#43;BOefocU68t/vxDsawN3pZhnl=
bJ69Oc6SnWVYumpYdatmxTSa6szSEVUsfxIpK7eSoVVzIHJweWvOVMITAdtfbsA=3D" target=
=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
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b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307113289&amp;sdata=3D%2FvTes4sdQ=
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https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#=
43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"fFciWxl=
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;2nDPpc/4z9XgG4qG588MU4/rE=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307118270&amp=
;sdata=3DCClF2UDqnAIwJ%2FfohMZudsssA%2FOMvzcgQfNPGQaPFqk%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Columb=
ia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&am=
p;source=3Dg" shash=3D"WD/MXXqGvRduK3lvzio0Y8PIww5GryXY&#43;IKtGC3WhU2AH7RV=
g0BQiq3HSlplPzy5uva5r/Jdkn&#43;FGj2CvN9ThZWY8Qz2T7/&#43;7PejtBeE4ZOgM1zVk5E=
EDo&#43;gtu3MK5cfJSkI8ne&#43;t1YnUF5qjkG5FnkOccWoyILasCX0oaSzMn8=3D" target=
=3D"_blank"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307123246&amp;sdata=3DhspNepcNSicG01BlQPInlTrzCEDP7PrhsN5l0U9Qps4%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"iMcVHUOQc0RNjg=
4LsIFnI77rbN2h6TfuiVA9Eec&#43;FJ05hTSAgYQdoiUjCejJfOULPshqruUiZ6kpzWCCdd53V=
X0piE4GTi3Af3orKp1KGHAvHIECzdlp2Fx3Ai&#43;djfvPunP6wHkXM8DMzrn/hwS&#43;mYZ3=
IuG0X&#43;t5L3mcdk1NriM=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt sol=
id windowtext; padding:0in; text-decoration:none; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>=
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</span>=
</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions Arc=
hitect&nbsp;</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:1in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307128228&amp;sdata=3DZb1%2FHn2R9=
VxjacjDLBnZIb97XOKZvEMRn7QJS2LUN0s%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"jHm2QwczA&#=
43;sVo/l6YSLQ966fDkSx5sm4UPdiKnU4KT2Tg5PaydZbnKZXJG39DNxwrNaVOLFGJmanHT/k/J=
GVewXfu5hfM9YO7JAgQrGBv1maBaAjMz4IXIyc3brD9ioCh755DBVAAVpVj27Bs1X8O/lYkj093=
E/4ofppnuJO0wE=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif">13=
101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307133207&amp;sdata=3D6ggk25pVaku9AIy6JyzPcXFYp9HxBqyxJUCsS2O7cOk%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#=
43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail=
&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"Tm98x&#43;5lwyaxWJ3DKGCP1pgynpKZzDcyA4Dl99F49SCp7=
U2RcE80caKeIOpoL0l3vDBf3h4IBEqV7sFID2vu3BOuHEImXYi0QxYBQKoMdwYDdKYD2Oh6r8cK=
udROsyBl27TuVFkDRlgmKgnA67WVgYU2cfQTeGQX&#43;LH5NZRVXXU=3D" target=3D"_blan=
k">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307133207&amp;sdata=3D6ggk25pVaku=
9AIy6JyzPcXFYp9HxBqyxJUCsS2O7cOk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https:=
//www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Sil=
ver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"Tm98x&#43;5lw=
yaxWJ3DKGCP1pgynpKZzDcyA4Dl99F49SCp7U2RcE80caKeIOpoL0l3vDBf3h4IBEqV7sFID2vu=
3BOuHEImXYi0QxYBQKoMdwYDdKYD2Oh6r8cKudROsyBl27TuVFkDRlgmKgnA67WVgYU2cfQTeGQ=
X&#43;LH5NZRVXXU=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307138181&amp=
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0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Columb=
ia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&am=
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53fXL8sgfdH5kEQdsemIAgtrMQnAWji0rqolC6QMNzUSIoCg=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a>=
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234=
b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257=
931307143161&amp;sdata=3DX%2FWFBYrgiaP3mP0VBmEbu9FmwKXpEBlXX%2F7N6IlbQMM%3D=
&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"h53cTOS=
ntC5ibXkMLm4f&#43;VSsBEwKEQZfRutuLAyZOhlFvZU3RLGOsLAnRvEjNnKpCBcLyRK9AwcOVv=
GsitjSrK1zwu2dz&#43;9E/FulO6V&#43;UDXl/2Y8UnF99BxFWy/7AOpGBcN564Ztrd4GpehIQ=
IrEUk&#43;hXxvu7jCq4x0kiyuGj9M=3D" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-de=
coration:none; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowt=
ext; padding:0in; color:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" heig=
ht=3D"18" id=3D"x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037x_m_-3104503748=
293921115_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." style=3D"width:0.84=
37in; height:0.1875in"></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b=
><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black">Gyan Mishra</spa=
n></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:black"><u style=3D=
"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif=
"></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">Network Solutions A=
rchitect&nbsp;</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-left:0.5in; margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i=
><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif; color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307148138&amp;sdata=3D9KuBH1b%2Fr=
qYPVPz1x0oh6WOhHTgJwGYW4oTqijSBVns%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"cN56aiXGijg=
rHlUajjAfgV2&#43;8ldzw&#43;2fja/2FvFvoIy/ftnqhhinIDD3zO1NCvvH/Yd8UFlbFRzpw5=
D0hGf4iKxcAlsR5BSdPiHpRWwZJWn35IBoFWqVhEDNospDUO5mdl&#43;M70GuXCdVp01/ss3&#=
43;VXhHxu3DUq40JTpd59&#43;wtt0=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:G=
eorgia,serif">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307153117&amp;sdata=3DA%2F3aTskhdp8bYtLKDT9VQLCNNifuZm%2F3F2YRciVyH5E=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/131=
01&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dg=
mail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"p4PJR&#43;ayuYKKQm0IOihGvVMGeRxU1iHPf6kTWYPus=
auExeY&#43;JeT9zUYubHJrWFKIdfQVNEL3Uzk2FUr6vAG5zWB/igvD/tD&#43;/Ip1lghvvDqP=
/gDGenjPftOEfl0bucxWb9o7Kg3Cnm0uRP3PkgDE/Gba4o8U2BJ6479zz28rCiA=3D" target=
=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307158095&amp;sdata=3DiW%2F09yn2P=
MwEzUAIXaBwVId9QrSNXbS1z7s8Vl9Ts78%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http=
s://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;S=
ilver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"ICQqe0pJk&#=
43;mOLC/BtO5txFMwnnYdimksU4qoj3NE4j0UbNVuSSeV&#43;gB&#43;x1wwTUIkBe&#43;9OC=
Q8qmdnZREb8utaAC5UKpEQguyLtiwR2324hDbh4nmfgngCaw8sp5gP6n2GxJ5eo1mgpgCsYuc8n=
5KldiNE&#43;9xsqOYKP3Zps1dPJds=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307163074&amp=
;sdata=3Do6fgwcMsNL9oCFlB%2BUx%2FmtsvLiz%2BcUS5njwbbChsjlg%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A&#43;Col=
umbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Silver%0D%0A&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail=
&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"JeN7ZFY3YlvVw9hX621BJNOAj54sY7IFdDIkdRck1EZv4MSh3=
Jrh7il04/Yssk7v0gi3bj86juGv7isWAz4f3MRcMu2fe9tP&#43;F/OobrDBilIUKMJmMuSgRNx=
fEUVqA1ZtapFwNdjn8xUjdz0lCwNyhyizTETQ0E6U1yPF3FjPrE=3D" target=3D"_blank"><=
/a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307168050&amp;sdata=3DmixHFVEqF4=
qQ4i%2B6JbES5OP1g%2FSb%2FrxDgIv9Rww4jf4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"oDRrK/66yDJiBNoGQLbwFkgaPXb1j&#43;b6ngxy=
Ma8YJSrwdC&#43;ivgLQPitFr4J&#43;WEsurptaDvgb9&#43;MHLJkfQsVsg6C9OLDqhdcg81U=
9U5T8c866t0J2iPloV1dfZz2OfJKG0qXOv4jhMAq8JCnFoupLPlH0RQPgptf7pCJLu1fcr44=3D=
" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"padding-bottom:1em; display:inline-block; colo=
r:rgb(17,85,204)"><img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; wid=
th:81px" src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email">=
</a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em; font-family:georgia,serif; colo=
r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect&nbsp;</i></font=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307173031&amp;sdata=3DzguxTuADiqi=
iAZ22lAVWQD8f6JNBQwU9hgD1QktRULs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https:=
//www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Sil=
ver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"i8YUghYHFtJVI=
aRiDelXexY871oe7KZTvVoBm&#43;wHCHTl9hrHqlRfApFEqs1wufb0MNlgMa8BGaPCIDB20dHF=
FpuXqyjoY4gaTYyFRIBLmMPyqCeWNcOc6eAwi1VjonVUKqwMSyXhRrzIAkEzFM6wUiws2gxo89/=
bMVslxM/7zlw=3D" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">1310=
1
 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br>
</font></i><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2=
B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307173031&amp;sdata=
=3DzguxTuADiqiiAZ22lAVWQD8f6JNBQwU9hgD1QktRULs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" origina=
lsrc=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;=
%0D%0A&#43;Silver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D=
"i8YUghYHFtJVIaRiDelXexY871oe7KZTvVoBm&#43;wHCHTl9hrHqlRfApFEqs1wufb0MNlgMa=
8BGaPCIDB20dHFFpuXqyjoY4gaTYyFRIBLmMPyqCeWNcOc6eAwi1VjonVUKqwMSyXhRrzIAkEzF=
M6wUiws2gxo89/bMVslxM/7zlw=3D" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307178009&amp;sdata=3D37qV2uXfgIR=
o455Ws84yQpkIjpQxU6VM6O8mSCRJjVc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https:=
//www.google.com/maps/search/13101&#43;Columbia&#43;Pike&#43;%0D%0A&#43;Sil=
ver&#43;Spring,&#43;MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" shash=3D"SNwDfa/KnDIGJ=
KhOFqlsYwKmi5PS/85RyUaSZOWX25SOdzc2i27oWbXUlCIa7E59IEMz83bjJIgZ2YeThmUYbiBO=
PMT7FBbY30N4YoXAYAJdi7vCCQfV2hCRNv3VykA2GBykY0Be6QaAikBEmU2xLYK35HmpsEM4awq=
X/WKNhMU=3D" target=3D"_blank"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">
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<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307182993&amp;sdata=3DnHxpOihZ9R=
JbYVyIpCHoF22OEPNqU2vfUUlGkIY5wIA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http:=
//www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"BNBnYFWdweJ87pHOjxpZyg6jq98Z&#43;sTI6WHeUuc9qk=
DE1RAQqvAcViI4WhZOf81AA9P7osV1rdUZLvRZ9lv2RCwFJV5VP0/pBNz8CJNEmhtAQtLoTlrLi=
CK3yueMuG5lYsTGbR4spbo2VGL0cTPAq2rBL6/5wDLS78r5cGpQFfQ=3D" target=3D"_blank=
" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204); padding-bottom:1em; display:inline-block">=
<img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; width:81px" src=3D"ht=
tp://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307187963&amp;sdata=3Di9TTvZIGnP=
2LjLgUmMY013K5JYHVlHSoDmhMSfI8cbc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http:=
//www.verizon.com/" shash=3D"zdJQQud6YwDAwkQ&#43;Fvj5wHhRU/P/mZH0rv&#43;FXU=
j7meOo10sEtP1l4/Iq7J4HY4rKvbxeDRfZMLRAyYYWO2sv/qQqUxszc&#43;Jp6JQldJ/7tyzzX=
bTfzoJdgz3m24vAL&#43;NO1pWhAS7Ru6sM5z6FORhJOIa0GN8jKGlcrRU1N6RFCsM=3D" targ=
et=3D"_blank" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204); padding-bottom:1em; display:in=
line-block"><img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; width:81p=
x" src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><b=
r>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
</div>
<div><br>
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/Mpn38oho7iygiUoV4YpTMcVZ3RY>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Gyan,

Gyan> I know we are trying to adopt an flooding algorithm
and from my reading up on all proposed algorithms, the dynamic flooding see=
ms to be geared towards Data Center  partial mesh high x ECMP leaf spine ar=
chitecture, where redundant flooding is problematic using either centralize=
d area leader or distributed flooding using same dynamic algorithm,  versus=
 the call for adoption flood reduction algorithm seems to geared towards fu=
ll mesh but from what I can tell would not be the preferred for clos multi =
tier DC leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths.

[HC]: The algorithm in the call for adoption is also for (or say, gear towa=
rds) clos multi tier DC leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths. In the =
Appendix of the draft, a full mess example topology of 5 nodes is used to i=
llustrate the steps of the algorithm in some details. Using this topology i=
s for easily "drawing" it and illustrating the steps of the algorithm. "Dra=
wing" a clos multi tier DC leaf spine topology high x ECMP paths to illustr=
ate the algorithm in details is very hard in the draft.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 6:29 PM
To: Sarah Chen <sarahchen@arista.com>; tony.li@tony.li <tony.li@tony.li>
Cc: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei=
.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call

Hi Acee

Do you know if the dynamic flooding algorithm discussed during interim ietf=
 by Sarah and Toni is the same as the one implemented by Cisco on Nexus pla=
tform or is Cisco=92s Dynamic flooding a proprietary implementation?

Cisco=92s flooding algorithm does seem almost identical to dynamic flooding=
.

Cisco Dynamic flooding - Nexus 9k

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-serie=
s-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fco=
llateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.h=
tml&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f08d8=
0031f917%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637259561920543212&sd=
ata=3DqVG4uwYPelL1syGzMViZSvOodKoWy2dlL1AyZ%2BljmB0%3D&reserved=3D0>


Dynamic Flooding - Arista - Sarah & Toni

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html<h=
ttps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf=
.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f08d80031f917%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637259561920553208&sdata=3Dv400uLAa%2F=
u3RwJlHfYhplTzR4sXVwMpCZA%2B%2BSM6adgI%3D&reserved=3D0>

Flood reduction- H Chen - WG adoption pending

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08<ht=
tps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatrack=
er.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f08d80031f917%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637259561920553208&sdata=3DZA%2F1DXQYG=
sbJHynkM5V8bj6Y5VnuwM%2FHftO02nlmzLk%3D&reserved=3D0>


I know we are trying to adopt an flooding algorithm
and from my reading up on all proposed algorithms, the dynamic flooding see=
ms to be geared towards Data Center  partial mesh high x ECMP leaf spine ar=
chitecture, where redundant flooding is problematic using either centralize=
d area leader or distributed flooding using same dynamic algorithm,  versus=
 the call for adoption flood reduction algorithm seems to geared towards fu=
ll mesh but from what I can tell would not be the preferred for clos multi =
tier DC leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths.

Why would we not want to adopt the best algorithm that is best for both ful=
l mesh and non full mesh leaf spine topology algorithm that works for all p=
hysical topologies and adopt that draft.

Unless a one size fits all won=92t work I would like to understand why one =
best solution draft we come up with for an FT algorithm for all possible ph=
ysical topologies cannot be picked for WG adoption.

Why would we want to adopt multiple flooding algorithms?

Gyan

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com<mailto:h=
ayabusagsm@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:02 PM <tony.li@tony.li<mailto:tony.li@tony.li>> w=
rote:

Hi Gyan,

I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and problemati=
c with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate r=
edundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine leaf it=92s like=
 an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.  With sp=
ine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows=
 and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular=
 nodal mesh.

One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes a flooding t=
opology at the node level.  If the adjacency between A and B is on the floo=
ding topology, then any single link between them may be used for flooding. =
 If you have 128 way parallel links, this is an immediate 128x improvement =
in flooding overhead.  What=92s more, A and B do not need to agree on which=
 link they are using and can use different links, resulting in an asymmetri=
c situation, without any loss of correctness or performance.

   Gyan>. Agreed.  The dynamic flooding really helps with X way ECMP preval=
ent in high density data center clos multi tier leaf spine parial mesh topo=
logies that scale massive bandwidth breadth wise horizontally for E-W flows=
.

Regards,
Tony

--

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD


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Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span>Gyan&gt; I know we are trying to adopt an flooding algorithm <br>
</span><span>and from my reading up on all proposed algorithms, the dynamic=
 flooding seems to be geared towards Data Center &nbsp;partial mesh high x =
ECMP leaf spine architecture, where redundant flooding is problematic using=
 either centralized area leader or distributed
 flooding using same dynamic algorithm, &nbsp;versus the call for adoption =
flood reduction algorithm seems to geared towards full mesh but from what I=
 can tell would not be the preferred for clos multi tier DC leaf spine topo=
logy with high x ECMP paths.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
[HC]: The algorithm in&nbsp;the call for adoption is also for (or say, gear=
 towards) clos multi tier DC leaf spine topology with high x ECMP paths. In=
 the Appendix of the draft, a full mess example topology of 5 nodes is used=
 to illustrate the steps of the algorithm
 in some details. Using this topology is for easily &quot;drawing&quot; it =
and illustrating the steps of the algorithm. &quot;Drawing&quot; a&nbsp;<sp=
an style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-=
color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important">clos
 multi tier DC leaf spine topology&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri=
, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); displ=
ay: inline !important">high x ECMP paths to illustrate the algorithm in det=
ails is very hard in the draft.&nbsp;</span></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 24, 2020 6:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Sarah Chen &lt;sarahchen@arista.com&gt;; tony.li@tony.li &lt;ton=
y.li@tony.li&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; Huaimo Chen &lt;huaim=
o.chen@futurewei.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Acee</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Do you know if the dynamic flooding algorithm discussed d=
uring interim ietf by Sarah and Toni is the same as the one implemented by =
Cisco on Nexus platform or is Cisco=92s Dynamic flooding a proprietary impl=
ementation?</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Cisco=92s flooding algorithm does seem almost identical t=
o dynamic flooding.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Cisco Dynamic flooding - Nexus 9k</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fn=
exus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f08d80031f917%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637259561920543212&amp;sdata=3DqVG4uwYPe=
lL1syGzMViZSvOodKoWy2dlL1AyZ%2BljmB0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"ht=
tps://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-=
switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html" shash=3D"iKSq4TuFntHTviV1NAu2I4bsNYmz=
Nc0rwvW7y0HPTRGilPAJ2ZKXFHKLdylvT93RJOLRVV2pkUEHyUqg8Fntq7kkoRnmkZrBzILlhO2=
PvzJEDqBdrqOzHrg81U/h1mfxDPAp06HXi2MUqYeHocypK4ZEfGkoXRKSO5bpAHCNE0U=3D">ht=
tps://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-series-=
switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Dynamic Flooding - Arista - Sarah &amp; Toni</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.h=
tml&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f=
08d80031f917%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725956192055320=
8&amp;sdata=3Dv400uLAa%2Fu3RwJlHfYhplTzR4sXVwMpCZA%2B%2BSM6adgI%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding-algorithm-00.html" shash=3D"W/4pu0DAf3bXksEK9/U2aPcz&#43;X774bUUxHWPh=
wgXMUMDCGdpVJ98gY6B9ZNZi7EqYViMdwbDCvwbcMRxZllDNTZ&#43;IljIAv7h5PyMU0KtSmVx=
mz8E1Nt98Mrk&#43;IX8YK9F78V2grqdnr206D3tukmulzZ3Y7d265CETJMbmbK&#43;JIQ=3D"=
>https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html<=
/a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Flood reduction- H Chen - WG adoption pending&nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8=
f08d80031f917%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372595619205532=
08&amp;sdata=3DZA%2F1DXQYGsbJHynkM5V8bj6Y5VnuwM%2FHftO02nlmzLk%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction-08" shash=3D"JOZYnx4VJlDyiPKzjQm3fWpOc&#43;ICmO90ZGE46KP=
KuEfYipo0PgpeUXQgy29RHVU1haWqO0ml06gcn6Qmknj&#43;sJmrNY13&#43;uWpymnQq3W9lN=
6COaLIAYRG6jvHHIOMQDtxS94yzcWpX84yGwlSCOdyuADzrCo7YTOuPuUaUvAqIZI=3D">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a></di=
v>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I know we are trying to adopt an flooding algorithm&nbsp;=
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">and from my reading up on all proposed algorithms, the dy=
namic flooding seems to be geared towards Data Center &nbsp;partial mesh hi=
gh x ECMP leaf spine architecture, where redundant flooding is problematic =
using either centralized area leader or
 distributed flooding using same dynamic algorithm, &nbsp;versus the call f=
or adoption flood reduction algorithm seems to geared towards full mesh but=
 from what I can tell would not be the preferred for clos multi tier DC lea=
f spine topology with high x ECMP paths.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Why would we not want to adopt the best algorithm that is=
 best for both full mesh and non full mesh leaf spine topology algorithm th=
at works for all physical topologies and adopt that draft. &nbsp;</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Unless a one size fits all won=92t work I would like to u=
nderstand why one best solution draft we come up with for an FT algorithm f=
or all possible physical topologies cannot be picked for WG adoption.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Why would we want to adopt multiple flooding algorithms?<=
/div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:43 PM Gya=
n Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:02 PM &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Gyan,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:14px; font-styl=
e:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norm=
al; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:nor=
mal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and problemati=
c with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in duplicate r=
edundant flooding that slows down convergence.&nbsp; With spine leaf it=92s=
 like an X horizontal width axis and then
 depth is spine to leaf links.&nbsp; With spine leaf as you grow sideways a=
nd the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows e=
xponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. &nbsp;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>One very nice thing about dynamic flooding is that it computes a flood=
ing topology at the node level.&nbsp; If the adjacency between A and B is o=
n the flooding topology, then any single link between them may be used for =
flooding.&nbsp; If you have 128 way parallel
 links, this is an immediate 128x improvement in flooding overhead.&nbsp; W=
hat=92s more, A and B do not need to agree on which link they are using and=
 can use different links, resulting in an asymmetric situation, without any=
 loss of correctness or performance.&nbsp;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt;. Agreed.&nbsp; The dynamic flooding=
 really helps with X way ECMP prevalent in high density data center clos mu=
lti tier leaf spine parial mesh topologies that scale massive bandwidth bre=
adth wise horizontally for E-W flows.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid; padding-left:1ex; border-left-c=
olor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">
<div></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Tony</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
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<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
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:81px" src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></=
a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em; font-family:georgia,serif; colo=
r:black"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></fo=
nt><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect&nbsp;</i></font=
></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif; color:rgb(0=
,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_signature">
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<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C427cee154ea74148fc8f08d80031f917%7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637259561920573196&amp;sdata=3DoxuHfFd0YT=
OLZPTeLYMIEAuHzJhzNsjkPyjO8DqgFkA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" originalsrc=3D"http:=
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" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204); padding-bottom:1em; display:inline-block">=
<img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px; width:81px" src=3D"ht=
tp://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quo=
t;,Arial,sans-serif; line-height:13px; color:black">
<b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34); margin:0px; line-height:13px"><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black; font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&=
nbsp;</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em; margin:0px; line-height:13px; color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br>
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Alvaro,

please see inline (##PP)

On 22/05/2020 16:59, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> 
> 
> Peter:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> 
>> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
>> thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
>> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear in
>> the document.
> 
> I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)
> 
> 
> I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
> discussion.
> 
> 
> ...
>>> My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
>>>
>>> (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
>>> different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
>>> attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
>>> the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
>>> the propagation is optional...
>>
>> depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
>> That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.
> 
> Right.
> 
> For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
> the other bits in rfc7794.  No changes are needed.
> 
> If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
> address Ben's comment:
> 
> OLD>
>     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>     MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> 
> NEW>
>     The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a prefix
>     between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
> 
> [Similar for OSPF.]

##PP
done.


> 
> 
> 
> I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
> 
> For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
> Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
> assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
> area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
> originate a new LSA.

##PP
correct. It is always a new LSA that ABR needs to generate. Here it's 
actually two LSAs.

> 
> Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
>     When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>     connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA
>     [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting.  If the received information
>     is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA is not needed.

Here's my suggestion for OSPFv2 ABR related text:

"The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPF Area Border Router 
(ABR) distributes information between connected areas. To do so, ABR 
MUST originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including 
the received ELC setting."

Here's my suggested text for OSPFv2 ASBR case:

"When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a 
prefix from another instance of OSPF or from some other protocol, it 
SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. To do so, 
ASBR SHOULD originate Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including the 
ELC setting of the redistributed prefix. The flooding scope of the 
Extended Prefix Opaque LSA MUST match the flooding scope of the LSA that 
ASBR originates as a result of the redistribution. The exact mechanism 
used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on the ASBR is outside
of the scope of this document."


> 
> 
> For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
> anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
> into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).
> 
> Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
>     When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>     connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
>     MUST be the same as the received value.

Here's my suggestion for OSPFv3 ABR and ASBR:

"The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPFv3 Area Border Router 
(ABR) distributes information between connected areas. The setting of 
the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA [RFC5340] or in the 
Inter-Area-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ABR, MUST be the same as 
the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source area."

"When an OSPFv3 Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a 
prefix from another instance of OSPFv3 or from some other protocol, it 
SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. The 
setting of the ELC Flag in the AS-External-LSA [RFC5340] or in the 
External-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ASBR, MUST be the same as 
the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source domain.	 
The exact mechanism used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on 
the ASBR is outside of the scope of this document."

thanks,
Peter


> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
>>> support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
>>> scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
>>> the L1L2 support this specification?
>>
>> drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
>> Considerations section.
> 
> I think that text is ok.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> 


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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Ben,

please see inline (##PP2)

On 21/05/2020 21:38, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:05:39PM +0200, Peter Psenak wrote:
>> Benjamin,
>>
>> thanks for review, please see inline (##PP):
>>
>> On 20/05/2020 00:44, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote:
>>> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
>>> draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: Discuss
>>>
>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>>
>>>
>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> DISCUSS:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> As for other reviewers, many of my comments duplicate those for the OSPF
>>> document; I expect that the analogous responses apply and am fine if
>>> they only appear for one document's review.
>>>
>>> Here, the question I have about normative language applies to the text
>>> in Section 3:
>>>
>>>      When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>>>      MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
>>>
>>> The scenario in question is analogous to the OSPF cross-area case: is
>>> the router propagating the prefix between ISIS levels required to
>>> implement this document; is preservation of the flag value a new
>>> requirement from this document vs. a preexisting property; and is this
>>> document trying to make normative requirements of devices that don't
>>> implement this document?
>>
>> ##PP
>> this is a new requirement and only applies to the routers that support
>> this document. We are not making normative requirements of devices that
>> don't implement this document, we cannot.
>>
>> Maybe we can add that it only applies to the routers that supports this
>> extension:
>>
>> "When a router supporting this extension propagates a prefix between
>> ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix."
>>
>> Would it work?
> 
> That would work, yes.

##PP2
I have suggested some text to clarify ABR and ASBR behavior in my 
response to Alvaro. Please have a look if that is fine with you. I'm not 
going to add the "When a router supporting this extension", as this was 
not necessary according to Alvaro.

> I think what bothers me about the current text is that it feels like a
> global statement that holds universally everywhere (and as such would be
> "scope overreach").  Even to say something like "ELC signaling MUST be
> preserved when a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels" (which is
> superficially similar) does not bother me very much, since it presumes a
> knowledge of what ELC signaling is (and thus, implementation of this
> document) in a way that "unknown prefix attribute flag 3" does not.  That
> is, we clearly (given your above explanation) don't expect the "unknown
> prefix attribute flag 3" to get propagaged, and only when we know that it's
> the ELC signalling does the requirement kick in, if that makes sense.
> 
> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
> thanks!  I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear in
> the document.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Likewise, the ASBR case for cross-protocol redistribution seems to
>>> rather inherently require understanding the semantics of the flags being
>>> translated.
>>
>> similarly to the above I can chnage to:
>>
>> "When a router supporting this extension redistribute a prefix ..."
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> COMMENT:
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Section 1
>>>
>>> Should we add a sentence at the end of the last paragraph about how
>>> "this document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using IS-IS"?
>>
>> not sure I understand, how is described in the body of the document.
> 
> I think I maybe put a little more detail on the motivation for this
> question in the OSPF document's comments.  Basically, it's about parity
> between Abstract and Introduction -- the Introduction says clearly "this
> draft defines a mechanism to signal the ELC using IS-IS", but there is not
> an analogous statement about the ERLD signaling mechanism.  As such, it's
> an editorial matter of style and you should feel free to ignore the comment
> or do what you see fit.

##PP2
I added the below sentence:

"This document defines a mechanism to signal the ERLD using IS-IS"

Similar has been done to OSPF draft.

> 
>>>
>>>      In cases where LSPs are used (e.g., SR-MPLS [RFC8660], it would be
>>>
>>> side note(?): I don't know that SR-MPLS is so popular so as to be
>>> privileged as the only example given for LSP usage.  If we instead
>>> talked about using IGPs to signal labels, this selection would seem less
>>> surprising to me.
>>
>> this document describes the ELC/ERLD capability signaling for SR MPLS.
>> For non SR MPLS cases, thee are existing mechanisms to learn ELC/ERLD.
>>
>> I can replace the text with:
>>
>> "In cases where SR is used with the MPLS Data Plane"
>>
>> Would it work?
> 
> Sure, thanks.

##PP2
  done.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Section 3
>>>
>>>      unless all of its interfaces are capable of processing ELs.  If a
>>>      router supports ELs on all of its interfaces, it SHOULD set the ELC
>>>      for every local host prefix it advertises in IS-IS.
>>>
>>> Do we want to say anything about (not) advertising the ELC for other
>>> prefixes?
>>
>> Do we have to? I can add "MUST NOT set ELC with for any other prefix",
>> but I find it unneeded.
> 
> This is the "comment" section of the document, so no, you don't have to :)
> I mostly ask because we give guidance on what to do for local host prefixes
> but say nothing about the other case.  That could be taken to imply that we
> don't know what guidance to give, even though someone skilled in the area
> who thinks through what the mechanism is doing will come to the conclusion
> that it makes no sense/is actively harmful to advertise the ELC for other
> prefixes.

##PP2
I would tend to leave it as it is.

> 
>>>
>>> Section 4
>>>
>>> I agree with Roman's comment about code 2 vs TBD2.
>>
>> that has been fixed already.
>>
>>>
>>>      ERLD in the range between 0 to 255.  The scope of the advertisement
>>>      depends on the application.  If a router has multiple interfaces with
>>>
>>> Just to check: w.r.t. "scope", both this document and the OSPF one only
>>> define usage of this MSD type at the scope of a single node, right?  (I
>>> don't see a particular reason to preclude using it at a different
>>> scope.)
>>
>> the scope here means where the information will be flooded - area only
>> or network wide. No such thing as a node scope.
> 
> Oops, sorry for misremembering that part, and thanks for the clarification.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Section 6
>>>
>>>         - Bit 3 in the Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV
>>>         registry has been assigned to the ELC Flag.  IANA is asked to
>>>
>>> Is there an "IS-IS" in the name of this registry?
>>
>> no the registry name is "Bit Values for Prefix Attribute Flags Sub-TLV".
> 
> Okay, thanks for confirming.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Section 7
>>>
>>> Should we say anything about considerations for redistributing ELC/ERLD
>>> information at the ASBR with respect to exposing "internal information"
>>> to external parties?
>>
>> why would this be "internal information" and why redistribution would be
>> "external party"? Redistribution between IGPs is predominantly done
>> between IGPs under same administrative domain.
> 
> I don't have any scenario in mind; I just wanted to check if there were any
> significant considerations to mention.  It sounds like there aren't such
> considerations, and thus nothing to mention.
>>
>>>
>>>      This document specifies the ability to advertise additional node
>>>      capabilities using IS-IS and BGP-LS.  As such, the security
>>>      considerations as described in [RFC7981], [RFC7752], [RFC7794],
>>>      [RFC8491], [RFC8662], [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext] and
>>>
>>> RFC 8662's security considerations have a pretty hard dependency on RFC
>>> 6790's security considerations; it might be worth mentioning 6790
>>> directly in this list as well.
>>
>> would not that be implicit when mentioning RFC 8662?
> 
> Yes; this is mostly a question of style.
> 
>>
>>>
>>>      [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-msd] are applicable to this
>>>      document.
>>>
>>> Could we also have a brief note that the normal IS-IS authentication
>>> mechanisms serve to protect the ELC/ERLD information?
>>
>> do we need to repeat this every time we add a bit in the TLV?
> 
> It's my preference, though not a strict need.
> 
>>>
>>>      Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or
>>>      redistribution may lead to black-holing of the traffic on the egress
>>>      node.
>>>
>>> This is what happens when the E flag should not be set but is
>>> erroneously set.  Should we also say what happens if we should set the E
>>> flag but erroneously clear it (e.g., that poor or no load-balancing may
>>> occur)?
>>
>> yes, there is a text there already:
>>
>> "Incorrectly setting of the ERLD value may lead to poor or no
>> load-balancing of the traffic."
> 
> I thought that was about the ERLD value, not the ELC indicator, but trust
> you to know best.


##PP2
sorry, you are right.

Regarding the "E flag being erroneously clear" - I would think that 
"Incorrectly setting the E flag " covers both cases of E bit being set 
when it should not be set and E bit not being set when it should be set.

What about this:

"Incorrectly setting the E flag during origination, propagation or 
redistribution may lead to poor or no load-balancing of the traffic or 
black-holing of the traffic on the egress node."

thanks,
Peter


> 
>>>
>>> Section 8
>>>
>>> I do see the note in the shepherd writeup about the sixth author (thank
>>> you!); if we're already breaking through the 5-author limit, did we
>>> consider making those who "should be considered as co-authors" listed as
>>> co-authors?
>>
>> I'm not fun of this 5 authors rule to be honest.
>>
>>>
>>> Section 10.1
>>>
>>> Should we reference RFC 7981 from Section 4 as well?  Right now we seem
>>> to only use it for the security considerations, which is not necessarily
>>> enough to qualify it as a normative reference.
>>
>> we reference RFC8491, which references RFC 7981. I don't see a need to
>> reference RFC 7981 directly.
> 
> Okay.
> 
> Thanks for the clarifications and updates!
> 
> -Ben
> 
> 


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/STumTqWxFsjaUM4NYjw-lDgDu9g>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Acee,

have you looked at the texts that I suggested in my response to Alvaro 
earlier today?


Please see inline:

On 26/05/2020 13:49, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Alvaro,
> 
> See inline.
> 
> On 5/22/20, 10:59 AM, "Alvaro Retana" <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>      On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> 
> 
>      Peter:
> 
>      Hi!
> 
> 
>      > With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
>      > thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
>      > additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear in
>      > the document.
> 
>      I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)
> 
> 
>      I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
>      discussion.
> 
> 
>      ...
>      > > My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
>      > >
>      > > (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
>      > > different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
>      > > attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
>      > > the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
>      > > the propagation is optional...
>      >
>      > depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
>      > That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.
> 
>      Right.
> 
>      For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
>      the other bits in rfc7794.  No changes are needed.
> 
>      If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
>      address Ben's comment:
> 
>      OLD>
>         When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>         MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> 
>      NEW>
>         The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a prefix
>         between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
> 
>      [Similar for OSPF.]
> 
> 
> 
>      I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
> 
>      For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
>      Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
>      assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
>      area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
>      originate a new LSA.
> 
> I agree with the changes but have suggested alternate text.
> 
>      Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
>         When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>         connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA
>         [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting.  If the received information
>         is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA is not needed.

when would ABR do inter area propagation of what is advertised in AS 
scope LSA? I can not think of such a case.

thanks,
Peter


> 
> I'd suggest:
> 
>        When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) advertises prefix information between
>        areas and ELC information is was advertised for the prefix in the source area, the
>        ABR SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] propagating
>        the prefix's source area setting. If the ELC setting, is also advertised in an OSPFv2
>        Extended Prefix Opaque LSA with AS-wide scope, the additional LSA origination
>        Is not needed.
> 
> 
>      For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
>      anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
>      into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).
> 
>      Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
>         When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>         connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
>         MUST be the same as the received value.
> 
> I'd suggest:
>        
>        When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) advertises information between
>        areas, the setting of the ELC flag in the Inter-area-prefix-LSA MUST be the
>        propagated unchanged.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
> 
> 
>      > > (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
>      > > support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
>      > > scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
>      > > the L1L2 support this specification?
>      >
>      > drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
>      > Considerations section.
> 
>      I think that text is ok.
> 
> 
>      Thanks!
> 
>      Alvaro.
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Tue May 26 06:20:18 2020
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From: "Toy, Mehmet" <mehmet.toy@verizon.com>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 09:19:39 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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I support the adoption.
Thanks
Mehmet



*From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
*Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
*To:* lsr@ietf.org
*Subject:*



This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFl=
ooding
Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support or
objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
for your convenience.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__nam11.safelinks.pro=
tection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fdatatracker.ietf.org-252Fd=
oc-252Fdraft-2Dcc-2Dlsr-2Dflooding-2Dreduction-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257C=
huaimo.chen-2540futurewei.com-257C5734ce330848415ad72108d7fb62ec30-257C0fee=
8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc-257C1-257C1-257C637254274611048903-26sdata-3Dv=
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k2Wk&s=3DeBiAwF8s4UxcgRM0UReX-4bagWclVzZTOkFSf99TTNI&e=3D>



Thanks,
Acee
...

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I support=C2=A0the adoption.</div><div>Thanks</div><d=
iv>Mehmet</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border=
-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt">=C2=A0Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;=C2=A0<b>On Behalf Of=C2=A0</b>Acee Li=
ndem (acee)<br><b>Sent:</b>=C2=A0Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br><b>To:</b>=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br=
><b>Subject:</b>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size=
:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">This b=
egins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support o=
r objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Her=
e is a URL for your convenience.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11pt"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2=
/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-25=
3A-252F-252Fdatatracker.ietf.org-252Fdoc-252Fdraft-2Dcc-2Dlsr-2Dflooding-2D=
reduction-252F-26data-3D02-257C01-257Chuaimo.chen-2540futurewei.com-257C573=
4ce330848415ad72108d7fb62ec30-257C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc-257C1-25=
7C1-257C637254274611048903-26sdata-3DvVP2Y8LZ-252FPzpOXRR8AnJr1U-252F6wu6GF=
ePJP3rMi0WQ-252BA-253D-26reserved-3D0&amp;d=3DDwMF-g&amp;c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhq=
g7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&amp;r=3Datt-naOfmiIoSEGVu45xSCiCAgkAP_tirWC3f=
akunpE&amp;m=3DJplNbZYwBUU8Q3IbRg64tr_3CVSe5hyW-WEmZg8k2Wk&amp;s=3DeBiAwF8s=
4UxcgRM0UReX-4bagWclVzZTOkFSf99TTNI&amp;e=3D" target=3D"_blank">https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-fami=
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWLi8YMiDtiOiXz0umkwYeF81nrKiyUmOAgACgLQCAAURHAIAF0RUAgABMVwD//9fHAA==
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 13:58:28 +0000
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References: <158992828112.6026.1646593855480055081@ietfa.amsl.com> <1242ad52-bb48-8526-b65b-d413e0cd9e25@cisco.com> <20200521193856.GJ58497@kduck.mit.edu> <CAMMESsxo56ZK+DKBMkKvFcXf+1GFPF+wDtRCW=+md8WCoKODxw@mail.gmail.com> <1852869A-2678-4AA7-AEB9-F7A3014A7191@cisco.com> <ed4caa6d-a47c-d550-8a5e-aee4937b5a3a@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:25:37 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Acee,

updated the text based on your comments.

thanks,
Peter


On 26/05/2020 16:07, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> This is in response to the previous Email on your suggested text.
> 
> On 5/26/20, 4:26 AM, "Peter Psenak" <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>      Hi Alvaro,
> 
>      please see inline (##PP)
> 
>      On 22/05/2020 16:59, Alvaro Retana wrote:
>      > On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Peter:
>      >
>      > Hi!
>      >
>      >
>      >> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes sense;
>      >> thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
>      >> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is clear in
>      >> the document.
>      >
>      > I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)
>      >
>      >
>      > I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
>      > discussion.
>      >
>      >
>      > ...
>      >>> My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
>      >>>
>      >>> (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
>      >>> different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
>      >>> attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
>      >>> the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
>      >>> the propagation is optional...
>      >>
>      >> depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
>      >> That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.
>      >
>      > Right.
>      >
>      > For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
>      > the other bits in rfc7794.  No changes are needed.
>      >
>      > If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
>      > address Ben's comment:
>      >
>      > OLD>
>      >     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
>      >     MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
>      >
>      > NEW>
>      >     The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a prefix
>      >     between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
>      >
>      > [Similar for OSPF.]
> 
>      ##PP
>      done.
> 
> 
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
>      >
>      > For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
>      > Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
>      > assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
>      > area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
>      > originate a new LSA.
> 
>      ##PP
>      correct. It is always a new LSA that ABR needs to generate. Here it's
>      actually two LSAs.
> 
>      >
>      > Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
>      >     When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>      >     connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA
>      >     [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting.  If the received information
>      >     is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA is not needed.
> 
>      Here's my suggestion for OSPFv2 ABR related text:
> 
>      "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPF Area Border Router
>      (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. To do so, ABR
>      MUST originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including
>      the received ELC setting."
> 
> Ok - I change "connected areas" to "areas" and "ABR MUST" to "an ABR MUST".
> 
>      Here's my suggested text for OSPFv2 ASBR case:
> 
>      "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
>      prefix from another instance of OSPF or from some other protocol, it
>      SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. To do so,
>      ASBR SHOULD originate Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including the
>      ELC setting of the redistributed prefix. The flooding scope of the
>      Extended Prefix Opaque LSA MUST match the flooding scope of the LSA that
>      ASBR originates as a result of the redistribution. The exact mechanism
>      used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on the ASBR is outside
>      of the scope of this document."
> 
> Sure - replace "ASBR SHOULD" with "an ASBR SHOULD", "that ASBR" with "that an ASBR", and "the ASBR is" with "an ASBR is" to be consistent.
> Also, "originate Extended" with "originate an Extended".
> 
> 
> 
>      >
>      >
>      > For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
>      > anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
>      > into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).
>      >
>      > Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
>      >     When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
>      >     connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
>      >     MUST be the same as the received value.
> 
>      Here's my suggestion for OSPFv3 ABR and ASBR:
> 
>      "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPFv3 Area Border Router
>      (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. The setting of
>      the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
>      Inter-Area-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ABR, MUST be the same as
>      the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source area."
> 
> Same change - replace "connected areas" with "areas" and "by ABR" with "by an ABR".
> 
>      "When an OSPFv3 Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
>      prefix from another instance of OSPFv3 or from some other protocol, it
>      SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. The
>      setting of the ELC Flag in the AS-External-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
>      External-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ASBR, MUST be the same as
>      the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source domain.	
>      The exact mechanism used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on
>      the ASBR is outside of the scope of this document.
> 
> Add "NSSA-LSA" as a case. Replace "by ASBR" with "by an ASBR" and "value the ELC" with "value of the ELC".
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
>      thanks,
>      Peter
> 
> 
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >>> (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
>      >>> support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
>      >>> scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
>      >>> the L1L2 support this specification?
>      >>
>      >> drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
>      >> Considerations section.
>      >
>      > I think that text is ok.
>      >
>      >
>      > Thanks!
>      >
>      > Alvaro.
>      >
>      >
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
CC: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <88a5c560-cb61-78c2-3733-931ffe529b6b@cisco.com>
References: <158992828112.6026.1646593855480055081@ietfa.amsl.com> <1242ad52-bb48-8526-b65b-d413e0cd9e25@cisco.com> <20200521193856.GJ58497@kduck.mit.edu> <CAMMESsxo56ZK+DKBMkKvFcXf+1GFPF+wDtRCW=+md8WCoKODxw@mail.gmail.com> <63cbb2b2-e7ec-3077-ab4d-258ce95e6ef7@cisco.com> <FCE03BA7-39DB-44A4-9E3A-93E8DC0CAB31@cisco.com> <88a5c560-cb61-78c2-3733-931ffe529b6b@cisco.com>
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Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 08:03:17 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMMESsza2k6LRBHhUzx7E7Co6onMz4VDRTvZ1ncvPX0UUYn3DQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>,  "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/DxJCYUY20eVIkQef_Z3L6JqPHYU>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Just for the record, I=E2=80=99m ok with the latest text.

Thanks!

Alvaro.

On May 26, 2020 at 10:25:38 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com) wrote:

Hi Acee,

updated the text based on your comments.

thanks,
Peter


On 26/05/2020 16:07, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> This is in response to the previous Email on your suggested text.
>
> On 5/26/20, 4:26 AM, "Peter Psenak" <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Alvaro,
>
> please see inline (##PP)
>
> On 22/05/2020 16:59, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> > On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> >
> >
> > Peter:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> >
> >> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes
sense;
> >> thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
> >> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is
clear in
> >> the document.
> >
> > I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)
> >
> >
> > I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
> > discussion.
> >
> >
> > ...
> >>> My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
> >>>
> >>> (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
> >>> different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
> >>> attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
> >>> the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
> >>> the propagation is optional...
> >>
> >> depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
> >> That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.
> >
> > Right.
> >
> > For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
> > the other bits in rfc7794. No changes are needed.
> >
> > If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
> > address Ben's comment:
> >
> > OLD>
> > When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
> > MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> >
> > NEW>
> > The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a prefix
> > between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
> >
> > [Similar for OSPF.]
>
> ##PP
> done.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
> >
> > For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
> > Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
> > assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
> > area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
> > originate a new LSA.
>
> ##PP
> correct. It is always a new LSA that ABR needs to generate. Here it's
> actually two LSAs.
>
> >
> > Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
> > When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> > connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque
LSA
> > [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting. If the received
information
> > is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA is not
needed.
>
> Here's my suggestion for OSPFv2 ABR related text:
>
> "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPF Area Border Router
> (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. To do so, ABR
> MUST originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including
> the received ELC setting."
>
> Ok - I change "connected areas" to "areas" and "ABR MUST" to "an ABR
MUST".
>
> Here's my suggested text for OSPFv2 ASBR case:
>
> "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
> prefix from another instance of OSPF or from some other protocol, it
> SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. To do so,
> ASBR SHOULD originate Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including the
> ELC setting of the redistributed prefix. The flooding scope of the
> Extended Prefix Opaque LSA MUST match the flooding scope of the LSA that
> ASBR originates as a result of the redistribution. The exact mechanism
> used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on the ASBR is outside
> of the scope of this document."
>
> Sure - replace "ASBR SHOULD" with "an ASBR SHOULD", "that ASBR" with
"that an ASBR", and "the ASBR is" with "an ASBR is" to be consistent.
> Also, "originate Extended" with "originate an Extended".
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
> > anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
> > into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).
> >
> > Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
> > When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> > connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the
Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
> > MUST be the same as the received value.
>
> Here's my suggestion for OSPFv3 ABR and ASBR:
>
> "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPFv3 Area Border Router
> (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. The setting of
> the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
> Inter-Area-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ABR, MUST be the same as
> the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source area."
>
> Same change - replace "connected areas" with "areas" and "by ABR" with
"by an ABR".
>
> "When an OSPFv3 Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
> prefix from another instance of OSPFv3 or from some other protocol, it
> SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. The
> setting of the ELC Flag in the AS-External-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
> External-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ASBR, MUST be the same as
> the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source domain.
> The exact mechanism used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on
> the ASBR is outside of the scope of this document.
>
> Add "NSSA-LSA" as a case. Replace "by ASBR" with "by an ASBR" and "value
the ELC" with "value of the ELC".
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>> (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
> >>> support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
> >>> scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
> >>> the L1L2 support this specification?
> >>
> >> drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
> >> Considerations section.
> >
> > I think that text is ok.
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Alvaro.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"font-family:Helve=
tica,Arial;font-size:13px">Just for the record, I=E2=80=99m ok with the lat=
est text.</div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><b=
r></div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Thanks!</=
div><div style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px"><br></div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px">Alvaro.</div> <br><p=
 class=3D"airmail_on">On May 26, 2020 at 10:25:38 AM, Peter Psenak (<a href=
=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>Hi Acee,
<br>
<br>updated the text based on your comments.
<br>
<br>thanks,
<br>Peter
<br>
<br>
<br>On 26/05/2020 16:07, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
<br>&gt; Hi Peter,
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; This is in response to the previous Email on your suggested text.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; On 5/26/20, 4:26 AM, &quot;Peter Psenak&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      Hi Alvaro,
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      please see inline (##PP)
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      On 22/05/2020 16:59, Alvaro Retana wrote:
<br>&gt;      &gt; On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Peter:
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Hi!
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; With respect to Alvaro&#39;s clarification, your ans=
wer for (1) makes sense;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out =
what (if any)
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; additional text we might want to be sure that the an=
swer to (2) is clear in
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; the document.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; I think that #1 is where some clarification could be use=
ful. :-)
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; I&#39;m including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below t=
o consolidate the
<br>&gt;      &gt; discussion.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; ...
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; My interpretation of Ben&#39;s question is two-f=
old:
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the in=
formation to a
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribu=
te flag -- are prefix
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; attributes always propagated (unchanged) to othe=
r levels? If so, then
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading=
 of rfc7794 is that
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; the propagation is optional...
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagat=
ed some are not.
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; That&#39;s why we are saying this one MUST be preser=
ved.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Right.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the sp=
ecification of
<br>&gt;      &gt; the other bits in rfc7794.  No changes are needed.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; If anything, you may want to change the order of this se=
ntence to
<br>&gt;      &gt; address Ben&#39;s comment:
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; OLD&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;     When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS level=
s ([RFC5302], it
<br>&gt;      &gt;     MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; NEW&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;     The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router pr=
opagates a prefix
<br>&gt;      &gt;     between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; [Similar for OSPF.]
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      ##PP
<br>&gt;      done.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the &quot;scope of the OSP=
Fv2 Extended Prefix
<br>&gt;      &gt; Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefix=
es&quot;, which I
<br>&gt;      &gt; assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will=
 be
<br>&gt;      &gt; area-local...so the ABR wouldn&#39;t simply propagate it=
; it would have to
<br>&gt;      &gt; originate a new LSA.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      ##PP
<br>&gt;      correct. It is always a new LSA that ABR needs to generate. H=
ere it&#39;s
<br>&gt;      actually two LSAs.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Suggestion (Add to 3.1)&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;     When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes =
information between
<br>&gt;      &gt;     connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extend=
ed Prefix Opaque LSA
<br>&gt;      &gt;     [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting.  If th=
e received information
<br>&gt;      &gt;     is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then th=
e new LSA is not needed.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      Here&#39;s my suggestion for OSPFv2 ABR related text:
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &quot;The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPF Area B=
order Router
<br>&gt;      (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. To do =
so, ABR
<br>&gt;      MUST originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684]=
 including
<br>&gt;      the received ELC setting.&quot;
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; Ok - I change &quot;connected areas&quot; to &quot;areas&quot; and=
 &quot;ABR MUST&quot; to &quot;an ABR MUST&quot;.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      Here&#39;s my suggested text for OSPFv2 ASBR case:
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &quot;When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) r=
edistributes a
<br>&gt;      prefix from another instance of OSPF or from some other proto=
col, it
<br>&gt;      SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists=
. To do so,
<br>&gt;      ASBR SHOULD originate Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] in=
cluding the
<br>&gt;      ELC setting of the redistributed prefix. The flooding scope o=
f the
<br>&gt;      Extended Prefix Opaque LSA MUST match the flooding scope of t=
he LSA that
<br>&gt;      ASBR originates as a result of the redistribution. The exact =
mechanism
<br>&gt;      used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on the ASBR i=
s outside
<br>&gt;      of the scope of this document.&quot;
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; Sure - replace &quot;ASBR SHOULD&quot; with &quot;an ASBR SHOULD&q=
uot;, &quot;that ASBR&quot; with &quot;that an ASBR&quot;, and &quot;the AS=
BR is&quot; with &quot;an ASBR is&quot; to be consistent.
<br>&gt; Also, &quot;originate Extended&quot; with &quot;originate an Exten=
ded&quot;.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I co=
uldn&#39;t find
<br>&gt;      &gt; anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values shou=
ld be copied
<br>&gt;      &gt; into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not=
).
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Suggestion (Add to 3.2)&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;     When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes =
information between
<br>&gt;      &gt;     connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the =
Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
<br>&gt;      &gt;     MUST be the same as the received value.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      Here&#39;s my suggestion for OSPFv3 ABR and ASBR:
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &quot;The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPFv3 Area=
 Border Router
<br>&gt;      (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. The se=
tting of
<br>&gt;      the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
<br>&gt;      Inter-Area-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ABR, MUST be th=
e same as
<br>&gt;      the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the sour=
ce area.&quot;
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; Same change - replace &quot;connected areas&quot; with &quot;areas=
&quot; and &quot;by ABR&quot; with &quot;by an ABR&quot;.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &quot;When an OSPFv3 Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR)=
 redistributes a
<br>&gt;      prefix from another instance of OSPFv3 or from some other pro=
tocol, it
<br>&gt;      SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists=
. The
<br>&gt;      setting of the ELC Flag in the AS-External-LSA [RFC5340] or i=
n the
<br>&gt;      External-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ASBR, MUST be the=
 same as
<br>&gt;      the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the sour=
ce domain.	=09
<br>&gt;      The exact mechanism used to exchange ELC between protocol ins=
tances on
<br>&gt;      the ASBR is outside of the scope of this document.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; Add &quot;NSSA-LSA&quot; as a case. Replace &quot;by ASBR&quot; wi=
th &quot;by an ASBR&quot; and &quot;value the ELC&quot; with &quot;value of=
 the ELC&quot;.
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; Thanks,
<br>&gt; Acee
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      thanks,
<br>&gt;      Peter
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the=
 L1L2 router doesn&#39;t
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; support this specification, then what are the dr=
awbacks/failure
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it =
a requirement that
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;&gt; the L1L2 support this specification?
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the S=
ecurity
<br>&gt;      &gt;&gt; Considerations section.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; I think that text is ok.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Thanks!
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt; Alvaro.
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt;      &gt;
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>&gt; =20
<br>
<br></div></div></span></blockquote> <div class=3D"gmail_signature"></div><=
/body></html>

--0000000000003f154805a68e657d--


From nobody Wed May 27 08:17:11 2020
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From: Scott Bradner via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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Reviewer: Scott Bradner
Review result: Not Ready

This is an OPS-DIR review of OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute Reuse
(draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse)

This ID describes application-specific attribute advertisements for use in OSPF.

I found this ID hard to read and recommend that it be reviewed for readability.

I have a basic question about this proposal – the ID describes specific
advertisements to be used when particular applications want to make use of
specific link attributes and says that other applications should not make of
the information in the advertisement without saying why such use would be a
problem.  I can imagine some reasons but it seems to me that it would be good
if this document just explained the problem it is trying to solve.

Some specific issues in the document

Page 6 – the text says “Standard Application Identifier Bit Mask: Optional set
of bits, where each bit represents a single standard application.  Bits are
defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].”  - it seems to me that this should be in an
IANA registry for extensibility but it does not seem to be in the referenced ID
but I could not actually tell

Page 6 – text says “The bits are repeated here for informational purpose” 
maybe point to a IANA registry or say “current assignments”

Page 6 – text says “If the link attribute advertisement is limited to be used
by a specific set of applications”  - maybe say “intended” rather than
“limited” since I do not see a way to actually limit a future application from
eavesdropping on the advertisement

Page 7 – the text says “If the SABM or UDABM length is other than 0, 4, or 8,
the ASLA sub-TLV MUST be ignored by the receiver.”  - it would seem to be
useful operations-wise to say that an indication of an error should be recorded
somewhere

Page 7 – a “User Defined Application Identifier” is introduced but never
described – what uses it and what is it used for

Section 11 – I found this discussion of the relationship between the existence
of a particular advertisement and the possible existence of an application to
use that advertisement to be quite confusing – if the existence of a particular
advertisement does not indicate that any application is listening why not just
say that?

Section 12.1 – it would help to say what problem is trying to be solved – why
is the use of RSVP-TE LSA advertisements a problem?

Section 12.3.3 – I could not tell if this section is saying that the
application specific attribute advertisements could not be used if there is
even a single legacy router present of if the presence of such a router means
that the application specific attribute advertisements can be used but the old
advertisements must also be used Section 14 – it might help to say how new
Sub-TLV types can be added to the registry




From nobody Wed May 27 10:35:00 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs
        Authors         : Tony Li
                          Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Huaimo Chen
                          Tony Przygienda
                          Dave Cooper
                          Luay Jalil
                          Srinath Dontula
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
	Pages           : 47
	Date            : 2020-05-27

Abstract:
   Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can
   result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead
   associated with flooding.  This can be addressed by decreasing the
   flooding topology so that it is less dense.

   This document discusses the problem in some depth and an
   architectural solution.  Specific protocol changes for IS-IS, OSPFv2,
   and OSPFv3 are described in this document.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Tony/Gyan -

Please find my replies inline.

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:48 AM
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; Acee Lindem (ace=
e) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-f=
looding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call


Hi Gyan,



This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densely =
meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very h=
igh bandwidth E-W traffic.

Thank you.


Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the s=
ame as this draft.  Please confirm.


It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and unpublished algorithm.

[Les:] Yes, this is a different algorithm than either https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/ or  https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/

We are contemplating submitting a draft for this algorithm to the WG.



This will give us three different implementations, using three different al=
gorithms, none of which will inter-operate.  Whee!!! :-(


[Les:] As I understand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode - whic=
h is why it is Informational track and does not have interoperability conce=
rns.
Sarah/Tony - do you have plans to extend this to support distributed mode a=
nd then standardize it?

At present there are no standard algorithm candidates which have achieved W=
G status - though that likely will change very soon.
And the point of allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be defined wa=
s in the expectation that more than one might be proven useful.



There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature de=
ployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.


Our implementation shipped last year.

[Les:] As did Cisco's.


We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure tha=
t this is the same as the draft on the standards track.


It does not appear to be, but someone from Cisco should confirm.

[Les:] Confirmed.

   Les

Tony


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony/Gyan &#8211;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please find my replies inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>
tony.li@tony.li<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;hayabusagsm@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org; Huaimo Chen &lt;huaimo.chen@futurewei.com&gt;; Ace=
e Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a much needed feature that operators have be=
en needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data center=
s to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">Please look at the feature description and it doe=
s seem to be exactly the same as this draft.&nbsp; Please confirm.&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and =
unpublished algorithm. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] Yes, this =
is a different algorithm than either
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
-algorithm/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/=
</a> or &nbsp;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-floo=
ding-reduction/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-red=
uction/</a><o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>We are contemplat=
ing submitting a draft for this algorithm to the WG.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This will give us three different implementations, u=
sing three different algorithms, none of which will inter-operate. &nbsp;Wh=
ee!!! :-(<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] As I under=
stand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode &#8211; which is why it=
 is Informational track and does not have interoperability concerns.<o:p></=
o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>Sarah/Tony - do y=
ou have plans to extend this to support distributed mode and then standardi=
ze it?<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>At present there =
are no standard algorithm candidates which have achieved WG status &#8211; =
though that likely will change very soon.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>And the point of =
allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be defined was in the expectat=
ion that more than one might be proven useful.</i></b><b><i><o:p></o:p></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand =
have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consens=
us with the IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Our implementation shipped last year.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] As did Cis=
co&#8217;s.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">We are testing this feature and planning to deplo=
y but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards =
track.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It does not appear to be, but someone from Cisco sho=
uld confirm.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] Confirmed.=
<o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:10.5pt"><b><i>&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<=
o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/avcx1GMXB1-NDevd2CZmjZMUuV8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
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FYI -

This versions corrects the codepoint registration policy for the new "IGP A=
lgorithm Type For  Computing Flooding Topology".

    Les

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:35 AM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs
>         Authors         : Tony Li
>                           Peter Psenak
>                           Les Ginsberg
>                           Huaimo Chen
>                           Tony Przygienda
>                           Dave Cooper
>                           Luay Jalil
>                           Srinath Dontula
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06.txt
> 	Pages           : 47
> 	Date            : 2020-05-27
>=20
> Abstract:
>    Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can
>    result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead
>    associated with flooding.  This can be addressed by decreasing the
>    flooding topology so that it is less dense.
>=20
>    This document discusses the problem in some depth and an
>    architectural solution.  Specific protocol changes for IS-IS, OSPFv2,
>    and OSPFv3 are described in this document.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-06
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Les,


> We are contemplating submitting a draft for this algorithm to the WG.


We would welcome that. =20

Does your algorithm have any relationship to =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm-00? =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm-00?>


> [Les:] As I understand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode =
=E2=80=93 which is why it is Informational track and does not have =
interoperability concerns.
> Sarah/Tony - do you have plans to extend this to support distributed =
mode and then standardize it?


Not at this time.  As we said during our presentation, we found =
debugging this already =E2=80=98challenging=E2=80=99 and morphing it to =
be distributed and deterministic in distributed mode doesn=E2=80=99t =
pass our sense of a beneficial cost/benefit ratio.

We have no objections if others want to take this on.  Centralized mode =
Just Works.


> And the point of allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be =
defined was in the expectation that more than one might be proven =
useful.


Interoperability might also prove useful. :-)

Tony



--Apple-Mail=_C09BCF24-7921-40D5-A691-1647AF3FD2A0
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Les,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in =
0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 5.25pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D"">We are =
contemplating submitting a draft for this algorithm to the =
WG.</i></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>We would welcome that. =
&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Does your algorithm have any =
relationship to&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm-00?=
" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allan-lsr-flooding-algorithm-=
00?</a></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div=
 class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"border-style: none none none =
solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in =
0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 5.25pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D"">[Les:] As I =
understand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode =E2=80=93 which =
is why it is Informational track and does not have interoperability =
concerns.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></i></b></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 5.25pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D"">Sarah/Tony - do you have plans to =
extend this to support distributed mode and then standardize =
it?</i></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Not at this time. =
&nbsp;As we said during our presentation, we found debugging this =
already =E2=80=98challenging=E2=80=99 and morphing it to be distributed =
and deterministic in distributed mode doesn=E2=80=99t pass our sense of =
a beneficial cost/benefit ratio.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>We =
have no objections if others want to take this on. &nbsp;Centralized =
mode Just Works.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; =
border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in =
4pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt 5.25pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></i></b></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
5.25pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"" style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><i class=3D"">And the point of =
allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be defined was in the =
expectation that more than one might be proven =
useful.</i></b></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div><br class=3D""></div>Interoperability might also =
prove useful. :-)</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Tony</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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To: Scott Bradner <sob@sobco.com>, "ops-dir@ietf.org" <ops-dir@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using IS-IS
        Authors         : Xiaohu Xu
                          Sriganesh Kini
                          Peter Psenak
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Matthew Bocci
	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2020-05-28

Abstract:
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to load-
   balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL).  An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.  In addition, it
   would be useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability for
   reading the maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-
   balancing, referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD).  This
   document defines a mechanism to signal these two capabilities using
   IS-IS and BGP-LS.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth Using OSPF
        Authors         : Xiaohu Xu
                          Sriganesh Kini
                          Peter Psenak
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Matthew Bocci
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-14.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2020-05-28

Abstract:
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to load-
   balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL).  An ingress Label
   Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a
   given Label Switched Path (LSP) unless an egress LSR has indicated
   via signaling that it has the capability to process ELs, referred to
   as the Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that LSP.  In addition, it
   would be useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability for
   reading the maximum label stack depth and performing EL-based load-
   balancing, referred to as Entropy Readable Label Depth (ERLD).  This
   document defines a mechanism to signal these two capabilities using
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and BGP-LS.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-14
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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To: Scott Bradner <sob@sobco.com>, ops-dir@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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Hi Scott,

please see inline (##PP):

On 27/05/2020 17:17, Scott Bradner via Datatracker wrote:
> Reviewer: Scott Bradner
> Review result: Not Ready
> 
> This is an OPS-DIR review of OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute Reuse
> (draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse)
> 
> This ID describes application-specific attribute advertisements for use in OSPF.
> 
> I found this ID hard to read and recommend that it be reviewed for readability.
> 
> I have a basic question about this proposal – the ID describes specific
> advertisements to be used when particular applications want to make use of
> specific link attributes and says that other applications should not make of
> the information in the advertisement without saying why such use would be a
> problem.  I can imagine some reasons but it seems to me that it would be good
> if this document just explained the problem it is trying to solve.

##PP

There are two problems mentioned in the Introduction section:

1) Ambiguity in terms of which of the advertisements are to be used by 
RSVP-TE and which ones should not be. When RSVP was the only application 
using these attributes, advertisement of these attributes meant that 
RSVP was enabled on the link. Such link was considered as a part of the 
RSVP-TE topology. With other applications using and advertising these 
link attributes, this logic can not be used anymore, which created the 
mentioned ambiguity.

2) Lack of support for application specific values for the link attribute.

I thought this was clear, but if it is not, please suggest what else 
needs to be said.

> 
> Some specific issues in the document
> 
> Page 6 – the text says “Standard Application Identifier Bit Mask: Optional set
> of bits, where each bit represents a single standard application.  Bits are
> defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].”  - it seems to me that this should be in an
> IANA registry for extensibility but it does not seem to be in the referenced ID
> but I could not actually tell

##PP
that's a fair point. I have changed to:

"Bits are defined in the Link Attribute Application Identifier Registry, 
which has been defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]."


> 
> Page 6 – text says “The bits are repeated here for informational purpose”
> maybe point to a IANA registry or say “current assignments”

##PP
sure, changed to "current assignments”

> 
> Page 6 – text says “If the link attribute advertisement is limited to be used
> by a specific set of applications”  - maybe say “intended” rather than
> “limited” since I do not see a way to actually limit a future application from
> eavesdropping on the advertisement

##PP
changed to "intended to be only used by"

> 
> Page 7 – the text says “If the SABM or UDABM length is other than 0, 4, or 8,
> the ASLA sub-TLV MUST be ignored by the receiver.”  - it would seem to be
> useful operations-wise to say that an indication of an error should be recorded
> somewhere

##PP
fair enough, changed to:

"MUST be ignored by the receiver and an error SHOULD be logged (subject 
to rate limiting)."

> 
> Page 7 – a “User Defined Application Identifier” is introduced but never
> described – what uses it and what is it used for
##PP
we provide a way for the user to advertise link attributes for the 
purpose of something that is not defined as standardized application. 
What such application might be is not subject to the specification.

> 
> Section 11 – I found this discussion of the relationship between the existence
> of a particular advertisement and the possible existence of an application to
> use that advertisement to be quite confusing – if the existence of a particular
> advertisement does not indicate that any application is listening why not just
> say that?

##PP
there are applications where the application enablement on the link is 
relevant - e.g. RSVP-TE - one need to make sure that RSVP is enabled on 
the link before sending a RSVP signaling message over it.

There are applications, where the enablement of the application on the 
link is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the fact that some link 
attributes are advertised for the purpose of such application - e.g. LFA.

We have provided full flexibility to support both.


> 
> Section 12.1 – it would help to say what problem is trying to be solved – why
> is the use of RSVP-TE LSA advertisements a problem?

##PP
please see my response above in the context of the Introduction section.

> 
> Section 12.3.3 – I could not tell if this section is saying that the
> application specific attribute advertisements could not be used if there is
> even a single legacy router present of if the presence of such a router means
> that the application specific attribute advertisements can be used but the old
> advertisements must also be used 

##PP
a) as long as there is a single legacy router present, all routers MUST 
continue to advertise link attributes using legacy advertisements to 
allow the legacy router to function properly.

b) new advertisements can be used in parallel and they can be used by 
the routers that do understand them.

The text in 12.3.3 says:

    "Send application specific advertisements while continuing to
     advertise using legacy (all advertisements are then duplicated)."


> Section 14 – it might help to say how new Sub-TLV types can be added to the registry

##PP
we are not defining a nynew registry, we only use existing ones. These 
registries have their own registration procedures.

thanks,
Peter





> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
Review result: Not Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-??
Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
Review Date: 2020-05-28
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-29
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: this document introduces a new link attribute advertisement in OSPFv2
and OSPFv3 to address general link properties needed for new applications, such
as Segment Routing.

Major issues:
The document has good description on the TLV structure of the Application
specific Advertisements, but fails to describe what are the NEW Link attributes
needed by Segment Routing. Page 7 (section 5) has a really good description on
all the link properties added to OSFP (RFC4203, RFC 7308, RFC7471, RFC3630) to
achieve TE. I can see Segment Routing would need each node to advertise its own
SID and the SIDs of adjacent nodes. Can't they be encoded (or extended) in
OSPF's NODE ID?

Minor issues:

Nits/editorial comments:

Best regards,

Linda Dunbar



From nobody Thu May 28 20:15:00 2020
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:14:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CABNhwV2ioze9q9YDzijHB78q2Xp_bzOxxiZhoenuy6b5WO=6Tw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/nQzOf76kI8uSQDWBzKQtAOZ-OH8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Les & Tony

Please see my replies inline

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 1:49 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Tony/Gyan =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> Please find my replies inline.
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:48 AM
> *To:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; Acee Lindem
> (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>
>
>
>
>
> It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and unpublished algorithm=
.
>
>
>
>
> *[Les:] Yes, this is a different algorithm than either
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorith=
m/
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm/>
> or  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/>*
>
* <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/>*
>
> *We are contemplating submitting a draft for this algorithm to the WG.*
>
> * Gyan> I think that would  be good for your customers so it=E2=80=99s no=
t
> proprietary.*
>
>
>
>
>
> This will give us three different implementations, using three different
> algorithms, none of which will inter-operate.  Whee!!! :-(
>
>
>
>
>
> *[Les:] As I understand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode =E2=
=80=93
> which is why it is Informational track and does not have interoperability
> concerns.*
>
> *Sarah/Tony - do you have plans to extend this to support distributed mod=
e
> and then standardize it?*
>
>
>
> *At present there are no standard algorithm candidates which have achieve=
d
> WG status =E2=80=93 though that likely will change very soon.*
>
> *And the point of allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be defined
> was in the expectation that more than one might be proven useful.*
>
> * Gyan> So along those same lines in theory we could have hypothetically =
3
> algorithms and all three on standards track which would give operators li=
ke
> Verizon and 3 options to pick from based on the physical topology use cas=
e.*
>
*Caveat would be - would vendors really want to develop other vendors
> options at a cost especially if there are more then two or rather keep
> their own option proprietary.  I think *
>
There maybe other features that you could get away with interoperability
> not being a concern but I think the flooding algorithm I would think woul=
d
> have to be the same for 2 vendors to be interoperable.
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
>
>
>
> Our implementation shipped last year.
>
>
>
> *[Les:] As did Cisco=E2=80=99s.*
>
>
>
>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>
>
>
>
>
> It does not appear to be, but someone from Cisco should confirm.
>
>
>
> *[Les:] Confirmed.*
>
>
>
> *   Les*
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Les &amp; Tony=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Please see my replies inline=C2=A0</div><div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed=
, May 27, 2020 at 1:49 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gin=
sberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_4546903833412767083WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony/Gyan =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please find my replies inline.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>
<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a><br=
>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a=
 href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@d=
marc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a much needed feature that operators have be=
en needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data center=
s to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">Please look at the feature description and it doe=
s seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would appear to be a different, proprietary, and =
unpublished algorithm. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] Yes, this =
is a different algorithm than either
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding=
-algorithm/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/=
</a> or =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-floo=
ding-reduction/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a></i></b></p></div></div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" v=
link=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_4546903833412767083WordSection1"><div style=
=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><a href=3D=
"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/" target=
=3D"_blank"></a></i></b><b><i>=C2=A0</i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>We are contemplat=
ing submitting a draft for this algorithm to the WG.<u></u><u></u></i></b><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan=
&gt; I think that would =C2=A0be good for your customers so it=E2=80=99s no=
t proprietary.<u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This will give us three different implementations, u=
sing three different algorithms, none of which will inter-operate.=C2=A0 Wh=
ee!!! :-(<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] As I under=
stand it, draft-chen only supports centralized mode =E2=80=93 which is why =
it is Informational track and does not have interoperability concerns.<u></=
u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>Sarah/Tony - do y=
ou have plans to extend this to support distributed mode and then standardi=
ze it?<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>At present there =
are no standard algorithm candidates which have achieved WG status =E2=80=
=93 though that likely will change very soon.<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>And the point of =
allowing multiple standardized algorithms to be defined was in the expectat=
ion that more than one might be proven useful.</i></b><b><i><u></u><u></u><=
/i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; So along those same line=
s in theory we could have hypothetically 3 algorithms and all three on stan=
dards track which would give operators like Verizon and 3 options to pick f=
rom based on the physical topology use case.</i></b></p></div></div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_4546903833412767083WordSecti=
on1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in=
 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>Caveat would be - would =
vendors really want to develop other vendors options at a cost especially i=
f there are more then two or rather keep their own option proprietary.=C2=
=A0 I think=C2=A0</i></b></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purp=
le"><div class=3D"m_4546903833412767083WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:n=
one;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There maybe other features that you could get away w=
ith interoperability not being a concern but I think the flooding algorithm=
 I would think would have to be the same for 2 vendors to be interoperable.=
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">There maybe other vendors due to industry demand =
have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor consens=
us with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Our implementation shipped last year.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] As did Cis=
co=E2=80=99s.<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica&quot;,sans-serif">We are testing this feature and planning to deplo=
y but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standards =
track.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It does not appear to be, but someone from Cisco sho=
uld confirm.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i>[Les:] Confirmed.=
<u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:10.5pt"><b><i>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<=
u></u><u></u></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tony<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:24:07 -0400
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To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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Hi Huaimo

Thank you for answering my questions.

Replies in-line

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 10:25 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your comments and suggestions. My answers/explanation=
s
> are inline below.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 22, 2020 9:11 PM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
> Hi Huaimo
>
> Thinking about physical topology a little further as with the FT algorith=
m
> it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical however the overall
> coverage is based on those basic parameters of degree number of links and
> nodes as well as width and depth of the topology.
> [HC]: We may add/think more about physical topology and reduce/simplify
> the description about parameters in the draft.
>

    Gyan>. Thank you I think that would be really helpful adding other
physical topologies other then full mesh and if you can do clos 3 tier and
leaf/spine would be great. Simplify parameter descriptions would be very
helpful.

>
> Thinking about it further the clos leaf spine DC style topology is much
> worse in terms of flooding due to physical topology that leafs don=E2=80=
=99t
> physical connection and are interconnected via the spine creating massive
> ECMP and overload of the spine super spine.  So the physical DC leaf spin=
e
> topology really exacerbates the flooding due to the non full mesh nature =
of
> the topology.
> [HC]: You are right. The clos leaf spine topology is much worse. The
> algorithm in the draft can be used to compute FT for the clos leaf spine
> topology and reduce the number of links used for flooding significantly.
>

    Gyan> Adding the other physical would help visualize how the algorithm
works with all topologies.  In reading the draft I did not get that the
algorithm would work for clos or leaf/spine so maybe need to add verbiage
to clarify.

>
> With a service provider core which is typically a mesh style multi tier
> multiple concentric circles mix of full and partial mesh and hub spoke ty=
pe
> physical topologies.
>
> So with flooding with full mesh every node connects with every node so yo=
u
> don=E2=80=99t have an overload of flooding being funneled through a super=
 spine as
> you do with a leaf spine DC architecture.  So in a full mesh which is the
> best case scenario for flooding perspective from my point of view which
> each node as root connects to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow
> the flooding scope and it=E2=80=99s pretty controlled and you can limit t=
he
> redundant flooding.  When the physical topology changes to a much more
> partially meshed the ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the flooding
> and longer convergence time.
>
> So I think in the slide deck and draft look at scenario where their is
> tremendous ECMP from partial meshing and how the flood reduction algorith=
m
> improves the flooding and convergence.
> [HC]: They should have more scenarios including clos spine leafs. The
> reason for not having them in the draft is that "drawing" topology of clo=
s
> spine leaf to illustrate the algorithm in details is very hard.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Huaimo
>
> Thank you for the slide deck.  That really helps understand the algorithm=
.
>
>
> I will let you know if I have any questions.
>
> The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by limiting the
> convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all nodes and
> links are part of the flood scope.  From the examples in the slide deck I
> did not see mentioned what is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm
> where when you have a meshed network in the slide 5 examples, how do you
> limit the flooding on redundant links duplicate flooding with the many
> meshed paths as you iteratively grow the FT nodes scope Cq().  I believe
> with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes.
>
> I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intensive and
> problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that results in
> duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.  With spine lea=
f
> it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width axis and then depth is spine to l=
eaf
> links.  With spine leaf as you grow sideways and the spine expand the
> redundant ECMP grows and redundant flooding grows exponentially and is mu=
ch
> worse then circular nodal mesh.
>
> Thank you
>
> Gyan
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are inline
> below.
>
> Best Regards,
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:13 PM
> *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org=
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
> I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick diagram at a
> minimum.
> [HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorithm is in Appendi=
x.
> I majored in EE with math  minor and both drafts are hard to follow
> without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology examples.
>
> Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf spine ( 2 tier)
> and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.
>
> From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual topology shared?
> [HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached.
>
> That would help.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306983861&sdata=3DIFYiJF=
uxf4UAMRmjxDf%2BTICOWslqJxCWjWwYYJM%2F6uQ%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> 4.1
>
> Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue
>
> For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
>        node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L's remote node R
>        has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
>        increase B's D and R's D by one.  Return FT.
>
> My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and starts with any
> node in the candidate list so could start from edge and work left to righ=
t
> or vice versa.  For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with each node B with
> directly attached node R via link L.  Increment node B from Cq until the =
FT
> is build for all nodes.  Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT
> matching physical topology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node=
 by
> node.
> [HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is an iterative loop
> after every node is added to FT. This loop connects each node whose D =3D=
 1
> (i.e., there is only one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a
> link on FT (i.e., add the link to FT) to make every node on FT to have it=
s
> D > 1. Page 5 of the attached slides shows some details for this loop.
>
> 4.2
>
> 1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
>        not on FT and one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD.
>
>        If A is root R0, then add the element into FT
>
>        otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH's D in PHs < MaxD and PH's
>           D < PH's ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
>           whose D < MaxD and PH's D < PH's ConMaxD), PH's D++, and add A
>           with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.
>
>        Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
>           conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
>           Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };
>
> This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directly connected node=
s
> [HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.
>
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.html&data=3D02=
%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0f=
ee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306988838&sdata=3DDlhahSN=
tm%2Ft406GcNtbGGq7uhFKfAqHO72Cm0vQdIo8%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.
>
> So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is geared towards
> leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.
>
> For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf connected to two
> spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively build out the FT
> topology 3 node arch  spine leaf spine or leaf spine leaf.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mail archives as I am late in th=
e
> discussion for this.
>
>
>
> If you have link to any particular dates in the archives would be helpful=
.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=9C=
epiphany=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> That sums up all the questions I have so if all answered in the archives
> then I am all set.
>
>
>
> I support the draft moving forward as flood reduction is a much needed
> feature.
>
>
>
> I think overall both drafts will really help large data centers with any
> overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS highly meshed topology that
> scales out horizontally with a large spine footprint - this is a much muc=
h
> needed feature.  This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround o=
f
> using BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.
>
>
>
> Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorith=
m/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm%2F&data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306993818&sdata=3Df9=
3gTdRXOpDko4jB0G%2B1Ixebs%2FrDHfmJ7WCWExPD5EI%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&sdata=3Dy7jC5eotw%2Be=
bdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussion late. It might be a good id=
ea to
> review the LSR mailing list archives.
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM
> *To: *Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions.
>
>
>
>  Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&sdata=3Dy7jC5eotw%2Be=
bdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>     [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provide tw=
o
> modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed mode=
).
> The latter describes the two modes, but does not include any flooding
> topology computation algorithm for the distributed mode. The former
> proposes a flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the
> distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> It maybe a good idea for both documents to reference each other
> as to how they play together or  in some respects if any provide a
> homogeneous complete holistic solution for flooding problem being solved.
>
>
>
> It is a good idea to have this new draft reference the dynamic-flooding
> but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic flooding draft provides a
> framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provides a separate
> flooding topology. This algorithm is just the first to be formally propos=
ed
> in a draft. Note that another algorithm was presented during the LSR
> virtual interim which replaced IETF 107.
>
>
>
> In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to combine both drafts so the
> solution is complete and holistic.  This will also make the overall
> specification flow nicely.
>
>
>
> No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a common IGP solution,
> however there are many inherent differences between ISIS and OSPF that fr=
om
> IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat like apples to apples b=
ut
> really it=E2=80=99s apples and oranges.  Maybe it might we wise to have s=
eparate
> draft for both and have references linking together as the same algorithm
> concept and mathematically however the actual code implementation would
> vary as the LSDB link state data structures are completely different.
>
>
>
> Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Centralized leader based and
> distributed
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307003777&sdata=3Db5DAj1yMUCRnk=
NtCjslcw8%2BhFQvZDFS%2FQZ1j9eRX5ts%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> This later draft per section excerpt provides both centralized and
> distributed algorithm see below
>
>
>
> *6.4 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23s=
ection-6.4&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db=
84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725793130700=
8751&sdata=3DjKC3VcXH%2Bo64b4sgsoce8QmETmJm4vLNdCucfrLyCAg%3D&reserved=3D0>=
.  Area Leader Responsibilities*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in centralized mode, it MUST advertise
>
>    algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.  In order for Dynamic
>
>    Flooding to be enabled it also MUST compute and advertise a flooding
>
>    topology for the area.  The Area Leader may update the flooding
>
>    topology at any time, however, it should not destabilize the network
>
>    with undue or overly frequent topology changes.  If the Area Leader
>
>    operates in centralized mode and needs to advertise a new flooding
>
>    topology, it floods the new flooding topology on both the new and old
>
>    flooding topologies.
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader operates in distributed mode, it MUST advertise a
>
>    non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader Sub-TLV.
>
>
>
>    When the Area Leader advertises algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-
>
>    TLV and does not advertise a flooding topology, Dynamic Flooding is
>
>    disabled for the area.  Note this applies whether the Area Leader
>
>    intends to operate in centralized mode or in distributed mode.
>
>
>
>    Note that once Dynamic Flooding is enabled, disabling it risks
>
>    destabilizing the network.
>
>
>
> *6.5 <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-05%23s=
ection-6.5&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db=
84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725793130701=
3733&sdata=3D1XXbBG%2Fo%2Ft6zGyxqPQdbMZQLET3%2FaxrKj516zl1Ayn8%3D&reserved=
=3D0>.  Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation*
>
>
>
>    If the Area Leader advertises a non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader
>
>    Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that support Dynamic Flooding and the
>
>    value of algorithm advertised by the Area Leader MUST compute the
>
>    flooding topology based on the Area Leader's advertised algorithm.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST continue to use standard flooding mechanism as
>
>    defined by the protocol.
>
>
>
>    Nodes that do not support the value of algorithm advertised by the
>
>    Area Leader MUST be considered as Dynamic Flooding incapable nodes by
>
>    the Area Leader.
>
>
>
>    If the value of the algorithm advertised by the Area Leader is from
>
>    the range 128-254 (private distributed algorithms), it is the responsi=
bility of the
>
> network operator to guarantee that all nodes in the area have a common un=
derstanding of what the given algorithm value represents.
>
>
>
> Former =3D WG LC
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&data=3D0=
2%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307018706&sdata=3Dzf%2FK=
80oG8tz90g15eVrkGeyGc5fhBym5PJezCFfSi9A%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Provides algorithm for distributed mode for this draft as well as the
> algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dynamic flooding draft
>
>
>
> Separate question-
>
>
>
> In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing that at the bottom of
> section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA codepoints reserved
> for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex algo codepoints I
> believe 0-127.  I would think the flooding algorithm range of values is
> completely separate since a different function then flex algo values.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307023687&sdata=3DMkDKud9pIJUww=
oN%2F7w71fnOXfwu38sk4qwkGmDspUKI%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM
>
>
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with [HC]=
.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> *Cc:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.or=
g <
> lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> Huaimo
>
>
>
> This is a much needed feature that operators have been needing for densel=
y
> meshed topologies that commonly exist in data centers to accommodate very
> high bandwidth E-W traffic.
>
> [HC]: Thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Below is link from Cisco which has introduced feature for dynamic floodin=
g
> in clos high density ECMP data center topologies.
>
>
>
> Please look at the feature description and it does seem to be exactly the
> same as this draft.  Please confirm.
>
> [HC]: It seems different.
>
>
>
> There maybe other vendors due to industry demand have to get the feature
> deployed before it reaches standards vendor consensus with the IETF.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fcollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-ser=
ies-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40f=
uturewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5=
591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307028662&sdata=3DNM0O3bq44tQ5GxZWm08rVjOh34mJjI=
1QsQ8DKFMgrAI%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> We are testing this feature and planning to deploy but wanted to ensure
> that this is the same as the draft on the standards track.
>
> [HC]: The feature appears implemented draft "Dynamic Flooding on Dense
> Graphs", which does not include any flooding topology computation
> algorithm..
>
>
>
>     Gyan> How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood
> reduction.  Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators
> toolbox  or competing features for optimized flood reduction. Would havin=
g
> two flood reduction features standardized versus one default IGP flood
> reduction feature be confusing for operators.  Just as it was confusing t=
o
> me.
>
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307033643&sdata=3Dtk5GwzA0o%2Bh=
eui0Hl3nIpNwmNXM0QW%2FEXRbDQav8y54%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
>     Thank you very much for your questions and support.
>
>
>
>     This Flooding Topology Computation algorithm can be used in the
> Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the flooding topologies for
> the data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths. It can
> be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to compute the floodin=
g
> topology.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Huaimo
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
>
>
> I support WG adoption and have a few questions related to the draft.
>
>
>
> Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic flooding algorithm used in
> data center clos dense meshed topologies with many ECMP paths where the
> flood is decoupled from the physical topology.  In the dynamic flooding
> algorithm mentioned in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the
> area leader and distributed to all nodes.  In distributed mode each mode
> the area leader determines the algorithm and then each node computes the
> flooding topology based on the algorithm.
>
>
>
> This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood reduction would reduce the
> amount of redundant flooding in highly densely meshed ospf or Isis
> topologies.  So this optimization of flooding would improving overall lin=
k
> state routing protocol convergence.
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan <yfan@casa-systems.com> wrote:
>
> Support it as a co-author.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yanhe
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm -
> draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
>
>
>
> This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adoption call for the =E2=80=9C=
Flooding
> Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D draft. Please issue your support =
or
> objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UTC on June 5th, 2020. Here is a URL
> for your convenience.
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction%2F&data=3D02%7C01%=
7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307038619&sdata=3DRg7ZsHHsYJnJS=
7SpYUCLRsrDZ86Gi0iyKD2vMcjbboM%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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i.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc=
%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307043598&sdata=3DJDfLRjkZ4PI%2BwVcV0Mm0LXqq4Pzl3wz7BWW=
pv0zTtq0%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.*
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
erizon.com%2F&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a45=
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7048576&sdata=3DgHSFT4GR6ZWS2MoTOPOVT%2BtTnF3wtTfRi5r1u6nzmcI%3D&reserved=
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>
> *Gyan
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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wKABspmTndYt2yddKU2cGmYRpylfBQrM44LVZ0%3D&reserved=3D0>Mishra*
>
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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> Solutions Architect *
>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
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>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silv=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347
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> --
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> *Error! Filename not specified.*
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
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> --
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> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
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>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.v=
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> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347
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>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000621fac05a6c0fc17
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you for answering my questions.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Replies in-line</div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, May 24, 2020=
 at 10:25 PM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com">h=
uaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your comments and suggestions. My answers/exp=
lanations are inline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Cal=
ibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> G=
yan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">h=
ayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 22, 2020 9:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thinking about physical topology a little further as with=
 the FT algorithm it makes sense to decouple the FT from the physical howev=
er the overall coverage is based on those basic parameters of degree number=
 of links and nodes as well as width
 and depth of the topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: We may add/think more about <span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Seg=
oe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important">
physical=C2=A0</span>topology and reduce/simplify the description about <sp=
an style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West Europ=
ean)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&qu=
ot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);displa=
y:inline!important">
parameters in the draft</span>.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt;. Thank you I =
think that would be really helpful adding other physical topologies other t=
hen full mesh and if you can do clos 3 tier and leaf/spine would be great. =
Simplify parameter descriptions would be very helpful.</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div dir=3D"auto"></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thinking about it further the clos leaf spine DC style to=
pology is much worse in terms of flooding due to physical topology that lea=
fs don=E2=80=99t physical connection and are interconnected via the spine c=
reating massive ECMP and overload of the spine
 super spine.=C2=A0 So the physical DC leaf spine topology really exacerbat=
es the flooding due to the non full mesh nature of the topology. =C2=A0</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: You are right. The=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:=
&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe U=
I&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,=
sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important">clos
 leaf spine=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Sego=
e UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacS=
ystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255);display:inline!important">topology=C2=A0is much worse.
 The algorithm in the draft can be used to compute FT for the clos leaf spi=
ne topology and reduce the number of links used for flooding significantly.=
=C2=A0</span></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Adding the other physica=
l would help visualize how the algorithm works with all topologies.=C2=A0 I=
n reading the draft I did not get that the algorithm would work for clos or=
 leaf/spine so maybe need to add verbiage to clarify.</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"=
font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&=
quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica=
 Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!imp=
ortant"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web =
(West European)&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont=
,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,=
255);display:inline!important"></span></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">With a service provider core which is typically a mesh st=
yle multi tier multiple concentric circles mix of full and partial mesh and=
 hub spoke type physical topologies. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So with flooding with full mesh every node connects with =
every node so you don=E2=80=99t have an overload of flooding being funneled=
 through a super spine as you do with a leaf spine DC architecture.=C2=A0 S=
o in a full mesh which is the best case scenario
 for flooding perspective from my point of view which each node as root con=
nects to all nodes and then you can iteratively grow the flooding scope and=
 it=E2=80=99s pretty controlled and you can limit the redundant flooding.=
=C2=A0 When the physical topology changes to a
 much more partially meshed the ECMP paths grow astronomically as does the =
flooding and longer convergence time.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So I think in the slide deck and draft look at scenario w=
here their is tremendous ECMP from partial meshing and how the flood reduct=
ion algorithm improves the flooding and convergence.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: They should have more=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,&quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;,&quot;Sego=
e UI&quot;,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,Roboto,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quo=
t;,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important">s=
cenarios
 including clos spine leafs. The reason for not having them in the draft is=
 that &quot;drawing&quot; topology of clos spine leaf to illustrate the alg=
orithm in details is very hard.=C2=A0</span></div></div></div></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div><div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:41 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Huaimo</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you for the slide deck.=C2=A0 That really helps und=
erstand the algorithm. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I will let you=C2=A0know if I have any questions.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The goal of the algorithm is to speed up convergence by l=
imiting the convergence scope and expanding out 1 link at a time until all =
nodes and links are part of the flood scope.=C2=A0 From the examples in the=
 slide deck I did not see mentioned what
 is done with the dynamic flooding algorithm where when you have a meshed n=
etwork in the slide 5 examples, how do you limit the flooding on redundant =
links duplicate flooding with the many meshed paths as you iteratively grow=
 the FT nodes scope Cq().=C2=A0 I believe
 with the dynamic flooding it does a degree of 2 so 2 links between nodes. =
=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think with clos spine leaf the mesh is much more intens=
ive and problematic with ECMP then a circular topology nodal mesh that resu=
lts in duplicate redundant flooding that slows down convergence.=C2=A0 With=
 spine leaf it=E2=80=99s like an X horizontal width
 axis and then depth is spine to leaf links.=C2=A0 With spine leaf as you g=
row sideways and the spine expand the redundant ECMP grows and redundant fl=
ooding grows exponentially and is much worse then circular nodal mesh. =C2=
=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:05 AM Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurew=
ei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hi Gyan,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers/explanations are i=
nline below.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ha=
yabusagsm@gmail.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_bl=
ank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 202=
0 10:13 PM<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" =
target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding=
 Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Workin=
g Group Adoption Call</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I think for both drafts it would be good to have a stick =
diagram at a minimum. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: A diagram for illustrating the steps of the algorit=
hm is in Appendix.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I majored in EE with math =C2=A0minor and both drafts are=
 hard to follow without a diagram with labels showing the exact topology ex=
amples. =C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Four main topologies - full mesh, partial mesh and leaf s=
pine ( 2 tier) and CLOS ( 3 tier) - real world scenario=E2=80=99s.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">From the interim meeting was their a slide deck visual to=
pology shared?=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: The set of slides presented in IETF 105 is attached=
.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That would help.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-flooding-reductio=
n-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84=
408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372579313069838=
61&amp;sdata=3DIFYiJFuxf4UAMRmjxDf%2BTICOWslqJxCWjWwYYJM%2F6uQ%3D&amp;reser=
ved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cc-l=
sr-flooding-reduction-08</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.1=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Step 1 - Build Cq candidate queue=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">For each node B on FT whose D is one (from minimum to maximum
       node ID), find a link L attached to B such that L&#39;s remote node =
R
       has minimum D and ID, add link L between B and R into FT and
       increase B&#39;s D and R&#39;s D by one.  Return FT.</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation is the algorithm an iterative loop and =
starts with any node in the candidate list so could start from edge and wor=
k left to right or vice versa.=C2=A0 For loop to build FT from Cq =3D with =
each node B with directly attached node R
 via link L.=C2=A0 Increment node B from Cq until the FT is build for all n=
odes.=C2=A0 Instead of starting with a wide diameter FT matching physical t=
opology we start micro topology with D=3D1 and go node by node.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: This (For each node B on FT .... Return FT.) is=C2=
=A0<span style=3D"display:inline!important;background-color:rgb(255,255,255=
)">an iterative loop after every node is added to FT. This loop connects ea=
ch node whose D =3D 1 (i.e., there is only
 one link attached to it on FT) to a node through a link on FT (i.e., add t=
he link to FT) to make every node on FT to have its D &gt; 1. Page 5 of the=
 attached slides shows some details for this loop.</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"display:inline!important;background-color:=
rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">4.2=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-family:&quot;PT Mono=
&quot;,Monaco,monospace;font-size:10.5pt;padding:0px 0px 1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;line-height:1.12;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wo=
rd;border:0px;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;border=
-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;background-color:whi=
te">1.  Finding and removing the first element with node A in Cq that is
       not on FT and one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH=
&#39;s ConMaxD.

       If A is root R0, then add the element into FT

       otherwise  (i.e., A !=3D R0 with one PH&#39;s D in PHs &lt; MaxD and=
 PH&#39;s
          D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD.  Assume that PH is the first one in PHs
          whose D &lt; MaxD and PH&#39;s D &lt; PH&#39;s ConMaxD), PH&#39;s=
 D++, and add A
          with D =3D 1 and PHs =3D {PH} into FT.

       Note:  if there is no element with a node in Cq satisfying the
          conditions, then algorithm may be restarted from R0, ++MaxD,
          Cq =3D {(R0,D=3D0,PHs =3D { })}, FT =3D { };</pre>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This is similar to 4.1 with micro topology with 2 directl=
y connected nodes=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">[HC]: It is similar to 1. in section 4.1.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorithm-00.h=
tml&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db844=
08d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63725793130698883=
8&amp;sdata=3DDlhahSNtm%2Ft406GcNtbGGq7uhFKfAqHO72Cm0vQdIo8%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-chen-lsr-dynamic-floo=
ding-algorithm-00.html</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">My interpretation of the algorithm from the verbiage.</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">So this draft starts in the middle of the topology and is=
 geared towards leaf spine 2 or 3 tier clos topology.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">For this one we build the bi graph so that could be leaf =
connected to two spines or spine connected to two leafs and iteratively bui=
ld out the FT topology 3 node arch =C2=A0spine leaf spine or leaf spine lea=
f.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Kind regards=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:01 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p>Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black=
">From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Yes and I have started reviewing the LSR mai=
l archives as I am late in the discussion for this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If you have link to any particular dates in =
the archives would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>No =E2=80=93 it was more an =E2=80=9Cevolution=E2=80=9D than an =E2=80=
=9Cepiphany=E2=80=9D. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">That sums up all the questions I have so if =
all answered in the archives then I am all set.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I support the draft moving forward as flood =
reduction is a much needed feature. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I think overall both drafts will really help=
 large data centers with any overlay underlay vxlan spine leaf meshed CLOS =
highly meshed topology that scales out horizontally with a large spine foot=
print - this is a much much needed
 feature.=C2=A0 This also helps eliminate complexity of the workaround of u=
sing BGP in the underlay which to me adds tremendous complexity.<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Here is the other recently presented dynamic flooding draft.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-chen-lsr-dynamic-flooding-algorit=
hm%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db8=
4408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306993=
818&amp;sdata=3Df93gTdRXOpDko4jB0G%2B1Ixebs%2FrDHfmJ7WCWExPD5EI%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-lsr=
-dynamic-flooding-algorithm/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>You can see they both make use of the dynamic flooding infra in <a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdat=
atracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%=
7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fe=
e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&amp;sdata=3Dy7jC=
5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_b=
lank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:07 PM Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Speaking as WG Co-chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I guess you=E2=80=99ve joined this discussio=
n late. It might be a good idea to review the LSR mailing list archives.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=
From: </span>
</b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 21, 2020 at 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span><u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:01 AM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; How does this draft compare to the WG LC draft for flood reduct=
ion.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventual standard options in the operators too=
lbox =C2=A0or competing features for optimized flood
 reduction. Would having two flood reduction features standardized versus o=
ne default IGP flood reduction feature be confusing for operators.=C2=A0 Ju=
st as it was confusing to me.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black"><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931306998798&amp;sdata=
=3Dy7jC5eotw%2BebdD4dDfvO7pSlh8JUYurUyAC4kFJDpfY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-floodi=
ng/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: This draft plus the draft for flooding reduction can provi=
de two modes of flooding reductions (i.e., centralized mode and distributed=
 mode). The latter describes the two modes, but
 does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm for the distr=
ibuted mode. The former proposes a=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:whi=
te">flooding topology computation algorithm to be used in the distributed m=
ode.=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; It maybe a good idea for=
 both documents to reference each other as to how they play together or =C2=
=A0in some respects if any provide a homogeneous complete holistic solution=
 for flooding problem being solved. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is a good idea to have this new draft ref=
erence the dynamic-flooding but not vice-versa. The existing dynamic floodi=
ng draft provides a framework for any dynamic flooding algorithm that provi=
des a separate flooding topology.
 This algorithm is just the first to be formally proposed in a draft. Note =
that another algorithm was presented during the LSR virtual interim which r=
eplaced IETF 107. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In my opinion it may not be a bad idea even to=
 combine both drafts so the solution is complete and holistic.=C2=A0 This w=
ill also make the overall specification flow nicely. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">No =E2=80=93 we=E2=80=99re not going to do t=
his. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I know that efforts were made by LSR to have a=
 common IGP solution, however there are many inherent differences between I=
SIS and OSPF that from IGP Link state protocol perspective you can treat li=
ke apples to apples but really it=E2=80=99s
 apples and oranges.=C2=A0 Maybe it might we wise to have separate draft fo=
r both and have references linking together as the same algorithm concept a=
nd mathematically however the actual code implementation would vary as the =
LSDB link state data structures are completely
 different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Later =3D Dynamic flooding =3D 2 modes Central=
ized leader based and distributed=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307003777&amp;sdata=3Db5DAj1yMUCRnkNtCjslcw8%2BhFQvZDFS%2FQZ1j9eR=
X5ts%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This later draft per section excerpt provides =
both centralized and distributed algorithm see below=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.4&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257931307008751&amp;sdata=3DjKC3VcXH%2Bo64b4sgsoce8QmETmJm4vLNdCuc=
frLyCAg%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"_bla=
nk"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(61,34,179)">6.4</span></=
a>.=C2=A0 Area Leader Responsibilities</span></b></span><u style=3D"font-fa=
mily:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in central=
ized mode, it MUST advertise</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 algorithm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-TLV=
.=C2=A0 In order for Dynamic</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Flooding to be enabled it also MUST co=
mpute and advertise a flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology for the area.=C2=A0 The Area =
Leader may update the flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology at any time, however, it shou=
ld not destabilize the network</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 with undue or overly frequent topology=
 changes.=C2=A0 If the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"=
></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 operates in centralized mode and needs=
 to advertise a new flooding</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 topology, it floods the new flooding t=
opology on both the new and old</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topologies.</span><u style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader operates in distrib=
uted mode, it MUST advertise a</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 non-zero algorithm in its Area Leader =
Sub-TLV.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-fami=
ly:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the Area Leader advertises algori=
thm 0 in its Area Leader Sub-</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV and does not advertise a flooding =
topology, Dynamic Flooding is</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled for the area.=C2=A0 Note this=
 applies whether the Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 intends to operate in centralized mode=
 or in distributed mode.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that once Dynamic Flooding is ena=
bled, disabling it risks</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 destabilizing the network.</span><u st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace"><b style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:monospace;c=
olor:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding-05%23section-6.5&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com=
%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637257931307013733&amp;sdata=3D1XXbBG%2Fo%2Ft6zGyxqPQdbMZQLET3%2FaxrK=
j516zl1Ayn8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:monospace" target=3D"=
_blank"><span style=3D"font-family:monospace;color:rgb(39,22,115)">6.5</spa=
n></a>.=C2=A0 Distributed Flooding Topology Calculation</span></b></span><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the Area Leader advertises a non-ze=
ro algorithm in its Area Leader</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV, all nodes in the area that su=
pport Dynamic Flooding and the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of algorithm advertised by the A=
rea Leader MUST compute the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 flooding topology based on the Area Le=
ader&#39;s advertised algorithm.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"><=
/u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST continue to use stand=
ard flooding mechanism as</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 defined by the protocol.</span><u styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pr=
e>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nodes that do not support the value of=
 algorithm advertised by the</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><=
u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Area Leader MUST be considered as Dyna=
mic Flooding incapable nodes by</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></=
u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the Area Leader.</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u=
><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 If the value of the algorithm advertis=
ed by the Area Leader is from</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u>=
<u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;font-family:monospace;ba=
ckground-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;PT =
Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the range 128-254 (private distributed=
 algorithms), it is the responsibility of the=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"font-=
family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">network operator to guarante=
e that all nodes in the area have a common understanding of what the given =
algorithm value represents.</span><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u><u=
 style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;word-break:break-all;box-sizing:border-box;wo=
rd-wrap:break-word;border-top-left-radius:4px;border-top-right-radius:4px;b=
order-bottom-right-radius:4px;border-bottom-left-radius:4px;overflow:auto;f=
ont-family:monospace;background-color:white"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;PT Mono&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"></u><u style=3D"font-family:monospace"></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Former =3D WG LC=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.c=
om%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C0%7C637257931307018706&amp;sdata=3Dzf%2FK80oG8tz90g15eVrkGeyGc5fhBym5PJ=
ezCFfSi9A%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/html/draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Provides algorithm for distributed mode for th=
is draft as well as the algorithm to be used for distributed mode later dyn=
amic flooding draft=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Separate question-<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">In light of the flooding algorithm and seeing =
that at the bottom of section 6.5 mentions flooding algorithm are the IANA =
codepoints reserved for flooding unique and non overlapping with the flex a=
lgo codepoints I believe 0-127.=C2=A0 I
 would think the flooding algorithm range of values is completely separate =
since a different function then flex algo values.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-=
ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307023687&amp;sdata=3DMkDKud9pIJUwwoN%2F7w71fnOXfwu38sk4qwkGmDspU=
KI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-07</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyF=
wdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36 AM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373divRplyF=
wdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:black"><br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:59 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hi =
Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks much for your questions. My answers are inline below with=
 [HC].</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Bes=
t Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Hua=
imo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-254=
6997010845183490divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Huaimo Chen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">huaimo.chen@futurewei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Huaimo=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This is a much needed feature that operators h=
ave been needing for densely meshed topologies that commonly exist in data =
centers to accommodate very high bandwidth E-W traffic.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: Thank you very much.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Below is link from Cisco which has introduced =
feature for dynamic flooding in clos high density ECMP data center topologi=
es.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Please look at the feature description and it =
does seem to be exactly the same as this draft.=C2=A0 Please confirm.=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: It seems different.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">There maybe other vendors due to industry dema=
nd have to get the feature deployed before it reaches standards vendor cons=
ensus with the IETF.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.cisco.com%2Fc%2Fen%2Fus%2Fproducts%2Fc=
ollateral%2Fswitches%2Fnexus-9000-series-switches%2Fwhite-paper-c11-743015.=
html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84=
408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6372579313070286=
62&amp;sdata=3DNM0O3bq44tQ5GxZWm08rVjOh34mJjI1QsQ8DKFMgrAI%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/s=
witches/nexus-9000-series-switches/white-paper-c11-743015.html</a><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">We are testing this feature and planning to de=
ploy but wanted to ensure that this is the same as the draft on the standar=
ds track.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">[HC]: <span style=3D"background-color:white;co=
lor:black">
The feature appears implemented draft &quot;Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graph=
s&quot;, which does not include any flooding topology computation algorithm=
..=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; How does this draft com=
pare to the WG LC draft for flood reduction.=C2=A0 Would they be two eventu=
al standard options in the operators toolbox =C2=A0or competing features fo=
r optimized flood reduction. Would having two flood reduction
 features standardized versus one default IGP flood reduction feature be co=
nfusing for operators.=C2=A0 Just as it was confusing to me.<u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ls=
r-dynamic-flooding%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307033643&amp;sdata=3Dtk5GwzA0o%2Bheui0Hl3nIpNwmNXM0QW%2FEXRbDQav=
8y54%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Kind regards=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:52 PM Huaimo Chen &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">huaimo.ch=
en@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Hi Gyan,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you very much for your questi=
ons and support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This F</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-color:white;color:rgb(50,49=
,48)">looding Topology Computation algorithm
 can be used in the Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs to compute the floodin=
g topologies for the=C2=A0data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths. It can be used by the area leader in the centralized mode to =
compute the flooding topology. =C2=A0=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt">=C2=A0</span><u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Aria=
l,sans-serif;color:black">Huaimo</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
<div align=3D"center" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"0" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"m_384935593858752679x_m_2269448371519129820m_7924928174422015037=
x_m_-3104503748293921115m_2130119924291467262m_-9202218654295123373x_m_-254=
6997010845183490x_m_5443062824626953867divRplyFwdMsg">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b=
><span style=3D"color:black"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yanhe Fan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D=
"_blank">yfan@casa-systems.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-c=
c-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call</span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">I support WG adoption and have a few questions=
 related to the draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Does this flooding algorithm use the dynamic f=
looding algorithm used in data center clos dense meshed topologies with man=
y ECMP paths where the flood is decoupled from the physical topology.=C2=A0=
 In the dynamic flooding algorithm mentioned
 in centralized mode the flooding is computed by the area leader and distri=
buted to all nodes.=C2=A0 In distributed mode each mode the area leader det=
ermines the algorithm and then each node computes the flooding topology bas=
ed on the algorithm. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This dynamic algorithm for optimized flood red=
uction would reduce the amount of redundant flooding in highly densely mesh=
ed ospf or Isis topologies.=C2=A0 So this optimization of flooding would im=
proving overall link state routing protocol
 convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Gyan=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:37 PM Yanhe Fan &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:yfan@casa-systems.com" target=3D"_blank">yfan@casa-system=
s.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Support it as a co-author.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Yanhe<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt=
 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 15, 2020 3:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-ls=
r-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">This begins a 3 week (due to holidays) WG adop=
tion call for the =E2=80=9CFlooding Topology Computation Algorithm=E2=80=9D=
 draft. Please issue your support or objection to this list by 11:59 PM, UT=
C on June 5<sup>th</sup>, 2020. Here is a URL for
 your convenience. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-cc-lsr-=
flooding-reduction%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c=
12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7=
C637257931307038619&amp;sdata=3DRg7ZsHHsYJnJS7SpYUCLRsrDZ86Gi0iyKD2vMcjbboM=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">______________________________________________=
_<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.che=
n%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307043598&amp;sdata=3DJDfLRjkZ4PI%2BwVcV0Mm=
0LXqq4Pzl3wz7BWWpv0zTtq0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
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t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
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<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307048576&amp;sdata=3DgHSFT4GR6ZWS2MoTOPOVT%2BtTnF3wtTfRi5r1u6nzmcI%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan<a href=3D"https:=
//nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co=
m%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver=
%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01=
%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff=
2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307053548&amp;sdata=3D5RCW%2Fw=
KABspmTndYt2yddKU2cGmYRpylfBQrM44LVZ0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Arial,sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">
</a>Mishra</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><a hre=
f=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww=
w.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;dat=
a=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb6504=
4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307058534&amp;sdata=
=3D6kQPY2lr7kCb1D8TK8FyEcLUhEw%2BXbGo5wq25P1%2BCN8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" tar=
get=3D"_blank"></a><i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black"=
>Network
 Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307063514&amp=
;sdata=3DKYMkolhI78NOupCfu2t4loUYoqPOz4DhWyVE5B6YefI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" t=
arget=3D"_blank"></a>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%25=
0A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C0=
1%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307068486&amp;sdata=3DefWfnCn=
ZLIuib%2FkjHpXFoRTG%2FtueVoh5yTltBhLr4y4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font=
-family:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307073469&amp;sdata=3DDU1ttb6xRduWgtpsBD6WNSWjma%2BtmtQdS%2FfOkth%2Fw=
Yc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307078448&amp;sdata=3D0Oy2TQby8nTywn4XD8Zlsf8pbX34m0xOcwFcPdDl6u0%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307083424&amp=
;sdata=3DDDxMBzfPAQ4XWIlzTfnZSp%2Fn5Q2Q1eAqZffx%2BHM4aig%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"htt=
ps://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google=
.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpri=
ng%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40=
futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d=
5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307083424&amp;sdata=3DKSSlepfFHvtyqtOAbwIAdqkXy=
9RF%2FdOfo7%2FDz5RHp7k%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,se=
rif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307088401&amp;sdata=3D8N6QAF6sCbXNbIhQQDT%2B7LbdWxWK5PX5kcfqeSA8PW0%3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307093381&amp=
;sdata=3DgM%2FzFPLLYGGKVIywDfe1VLMFtva0uGeYVwqjk4as53g%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"=
 target=3D"_blank"></a></div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/=
13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;=
source=3Dg">
</a><div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307098359&amp;sdata=3DRFI30Fh8pkVGzCIo0t%2FuhBIYcu6cFYMQnfAKH9TCXXM%3D&amp;=
reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;=
padding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;border-left-co=
lor:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(20=
4,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307103340&amp;sdata=3DJJvVXt2V%2B=
4qdM6D8hsCCltvguXzAGUPqzJAF2cSurVo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307108314&amp;sdata=3DzZ9exHtpFs%2B7d%2BTLGDwewg8ogHEksDYKQ%2FlHoXfS5=
R4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307113289&amp;sdata=3D%2FvTes4sdQ=
nRrA93lMZPAu%2BJeOuSZS%2BHN2NDIol5vkYU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blan=
k"></a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307118270&amp=
;sdata=3DCClF2UDqnAIwJ%2FfohMZudsssA%2FOMvzcgQfNPGQaPFqk%3D&amp;reserved=3D=
0" target=3D"_blank"></a></div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/searc=
h/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&am=
p;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ver=
izon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a=
452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931=
307123246&amp;sdata=3DhspNepcNSicG01BlQPInlTrzCEDP7PrhsN5l0U9Qps4%3D&amp;re=
served=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;pa=
dding:0in;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><b>Error!
 Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Archit=
ect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:1in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307128228&amp;sdata=3DZb1%2FHn2R9=
VxjacjDLBnZIb97XOKZvEMRn7QJS2LUN0s%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">13101
 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.p=
rotection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2=
F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dg=
mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
257931307133207&amp;sdata=3D6ggk25pVaku9AIy6JyzPcXFYp9HxBqyxJUCsS2O7cOk%3D&=
amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
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9AIy6JyzPcXFYp9HxBqyxJUCsS2O7cOk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"></a=
></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
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mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
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h/13101%0D%0A+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver%0D%0A+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&am=
p;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234=
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&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decoration:none;co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style=3D"border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;c=
olor:rgb(17,85,204)"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" id=3D"m_3=
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8293921115_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender." style=3D"width:0.8=
437in;height:0.1875in"></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><=
span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span><=
/b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u style=3D"fon=
t-family:Arial,sans-serif"></u><u style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></=
u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Arch=
itect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-left:0.5in;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><=
span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
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mail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec=
234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637=
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%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank">Silver
 Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307158095&amp;sdata=3DiW%2F09yn2P=
MwEzUAIXaBwVId9QrSNXbS1z7s8Vl9Ts78%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><=
/a></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%250D%250A%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%2=
50D%250A%2BSilver%250D%250A%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&a=
mp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7f=
eb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307163074&amp=
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&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.verizon.com%2F&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7=
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qQ4i%2B6JbES5OP1g%2FSb%2FrxDgIv9Rww4jf4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"paddi=
ng-bottom:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">=
<img width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px" src=3D"htt=
p://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email"></a><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;=
,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black">
<b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan M=
ishra</b></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:blac=
k"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0=
,0)"><i style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font=
 face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2F13101%2BColumbia%2BPike%2B%250D%250A%2=
BSilver%2BSpring%2C%2BMD%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7C=
huaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C4c12ec234b2a452db84408d7feb65044%7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637257931307173031&amp;sdata=3DzguxTuADiqi=
iAZ22lAVWQD8f6JNBQwU9hgD1QktRULs%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" style=3D"font-family:=
georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank"></a></font></i></p></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><=
/blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34=
,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);=
padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http=
://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=
=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:=
1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line=
-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34=
,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"co=
lor:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#0=
00000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"geo=
rgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silv=
er Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div>

--000000000000621fac05a6c0fc17--


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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Hi Linda,

On 28/05/2020 19:02, Linda Dunbar via Datatracker wrote:
> Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
> Review result: Not Ready
> 
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
> like any other last call comments.
> 
> For more information, please see the FAQ at
> 
> <https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-??
> Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
> Review Date: 2020-05-28
> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-29
> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
> 
> Summary: this document introduces a new link attribute advertisement in OSPFv2
> and OSPFv3 to address general link properties needed for new applications, such
> as Segment Routing.
> 
> Major issues:
> The document has good description on the TLV structure of the Application
> specific Advertisements, but fails to describe what are the NEW Link attributes
> needed by Segment Routing. Page 7 (section 5) has a really good description on
> all the link properties added to OSFP (RFC4203, RFC 7308, RFC7471, RFC3630) to
> achieve TE. I can see Segment Routing would need each node to advertise its own
> SID and the SIDs of adjacent nodes. Can't they be encoded (or extended) in
> OSPF's NODE ID?

we are not defining any new attributes.

We are allowing an existing link attributes to be used by other 
applications, including, but not limited to SRTE.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> Minor issues:
> 
> Nits/editorial comments:
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Linda Dunbar
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Subject: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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Reviewer: Jouni Korhonen
Review result: Ready with Nits

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

<https://trac.ietf.org/trac/gen/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-??
Reviewer: Jouni Korhonen
Review Date: 2020-05-29
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-29
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary:

Not really my area of expertise, however, I did not spot any issues during the
review. The document is ready for publication.

Major issues:

None.

Minor issues:

None.

Nits/editorial comments:

* There are spacing issues mostly with parenthesis in the text that the RFC
editor likely takes care of. * On line 165 SR is used without expanding it. The
expansion is obvious but the RFC has both "Segment Routing" and "Shared Risk"
used with SRxx.. * At least Section 5 has "is NOT" and "does NOT" emphasis
used. I would use just "is not" and "does not", since those with "NOT" are not
in listed in normal "Requirements Language".



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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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From: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>
Cc: "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse.all@ietf.org>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:59:33 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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Linda,

On 29/05/2020 16:52, Linda Dunbar wrote:
> Peter,
> You said:
> /we are not defining any new attributes./
> /We are allowing an existing link attributes to be used by other 
> applications, including, but not limited to SRTE./
> What prevent a node (or an application on the node) receiving the LSA 
> from using the attributes carried by the LSA?  

the problem with existing advertisement is that RSVP-TE will use it, 
even if it was not intended to be used by RSVP-TE.

We are providing a way to explicitly advertised apps that are allowed to 
use the advertised attributes.

> If no new attributes are 
> to be added, then why need a new ASLA sub-TLV?

to be able to use the existing attributes for new apps, other than RSVP-TE.


thanks,
Peter

> Linda
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 5:51 AM
> To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; gen-art@ietf.org
> Cc: last-call@ietf.org; lsr@ietf.org; 
> draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse.all@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Genart last call review of 
> draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
> Hi Linda,
> On 28/05/2020 19:02, Linda Dunbar via Datatracker wrote:
>> Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
>> Review result: Not Ready
>> 
>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area 
>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by 
>> the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just like 
>> any other last call comments.
>> 
>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>> 
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrac.ietf.org%2Ftrac%2Fgen%2Fwiki%2FGenArtfaq&amp;data=02%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C008faccf0edd4290149908d803be29ea%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637263462571035839&amp;sdata=gkOw4rUUjCqIpp%2B3opurl5M44kb3cQzOYlIC%2FOLAoD0%3D&amp;reserved=0>.
>> 
>> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-??
>> Reviewer: Linda Dunbar
>> Review Date: 2020-05-28
>> IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-29
>> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
>> 
>> Summary: this document introduces a new link attribute advertisement 
>> in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 to address general link properties needed for new 
>> applications, such as Segment Routing.
>> 
>> Major issues:
>> The document has good description on the TLV structure of the 
>> Application specific Advertisements, but fails to describe what are 
>> the NEW Link attributes needed by Segment Routing. Page 7 (section 5) 
>> has a really good description on all the link properties added to OSFP 
>> (RFC4203, RFC 7308, RFC7471, RFC3630) to achieve TE. I can see Segment 
>> Routing would need each node to advertise its own SID and the SIDs of 
>> adjacent nodes. Can't they be encoded (or extended) in OSPF's NODE ID?
> we are not defining any new attributes.
> We are allowing an existing link attributes to be used by other 
> applications, including, but not limited to SRTE.
> thanks,
> Peter
>> 
>> Minor issues:
>> 
>> Nits/editorial comments:
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Linda Dunbar
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


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From nobody Fri May 29 09:18:19 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli
Review result: Has Nits

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli
Review Date: 2020-05-29
IETF LC End Date: date-if-known
Intended Status: Standard Track

Summary:

The readibility of the draft has been significantly improved since my last
review (v07), mostly the abstract and the introduction, which now cleary state
what is the scope of the draft. I also appreciated the introduction of section
3 where a description of the existing solution is described.

Minor issues:
- Section 4.1 - Advantages with respect to RSVP-TE are described while the text
speaks about advantages with respect to RSVP-TE and GMPLS, probably it could be
changed into: advantages with respect to RSVP-TE when used in packet networks
and in GMPLS, something like this. - Section 5 - Why for the UDABM it doens't
say the value MUST be 0,4,8 but rather says "the legal values are" ? Is 8
octets future-proof enough? or conversely, if only 3 values are defined why do
we need 8 octects as option? - Section 8 - I really find it hard to understand
this small section.

Typos:
-  Unidirectional Link Dela [RFC7471]




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Reviewer: Bruno Decraene
Review result: Has Issues

 Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The
Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as
they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special
request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs.
For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see
​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would
be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call
comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by
updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
Reviewer: Bruno Decraene
Review Date: 2020-05-29
IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-29
Intended Status: Standards Track

Summary:
    I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be
    resolved before publication.

Comments:
  Draft is clear.

Minor Issues:

§4.1
*2 (for SABM & UDABM fields)
OLD: The length SHOULD be the minimum required to send all bits which are set.
I'd propose
NEW: The length SHOULD be the minimum required to send all the meaningful bits
which are set.

Motivation; the 'bits which are sent' are the bits in the SABM field. (they do
include non-meaningful and padding bits)

----

OLD: Undefined bits MUST be transmitted as 0
NEW: Undefined transmitted bits MUST be cleared (0)

Motivation: currently the number of undefined bits is 8*8-3. They SHOULD not be
transmitted (beyond the first ones fitting in the first N required octet). The
sentence "Undefined bits MUST be transmitted as 0" could be read as all defined
bits MUST be transmitted (as 0).
---
User Defined Application Identifier Bits have no name. I'd propose to call them
UDABM[0], UDABM[1]... This may avoid that different implementation use
different names and, more problematic, that some implementations starting with
1 (the first, the second) while while some other implementations starts as 0,
creating interop issues (SABM[1] on node A is SABM[0] on node B)
---
§4.2

"In cases where conflicting values for the same application/attribute/link are
advertised all the conflicting values MUST be ignored." I'd propose to add "for
this application" (IOW, those values are still applicable for all other
applications)
---
§6.2
I'd argue that the first part of section 3.2 is a specification of the behavior
and hence should be moved to section 4.1, rather than placed in the section
"deployment consideration" which eventually will not be read by someone
implementing the specification. Especially since the text in section 4.1
implies a different behavior: "Bits that are NOT transmitted MUST be treated as
if they are set to 0 on receipt."
---
§5
"In the case of SRTE, advertisement of application specific link attributes
does NOT indicate enablement of SRTE." What does "enablement of SRTE" means? Do
you have a pointer to a document/text?

I'm not sure I would keep that paragraph on SR-TE enablement.
---
§6.1
"Under the conditions defined above, implementations which support the
   extensions defined in this document have the choice of using legacy
   advertisements or application specific advertisements in support of
   SRTE and/or LFA.  This will require implementations to provide
   controls specifying which type of advertisements are to be sent/
   processed on receive for these applications."

I think that "have the choice" is not prescriptive enough given the deployment
issues described in section 6.3 I'd rather say that implementations MUST
support the use of both advertisements (legacy and application specific
advertisement) and MUST provide controls specifying which type of
advertisements are to be processed on receive for these applications.



From nobody Fri May 29 14:29:58 2020
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Christian Hopps, a Chair of the lsr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Link State Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Christian Hopps


Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  100 Minutes
Number of Attendees: 100
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: ipsecme idr rtgwg lsvr
 Technology Overlap: rift spring
 Key Participant Conflict: bfd bess





People who must be present:
  Acee Lindem
  Christian Hopps
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------



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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>
CC: "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-te-app.all@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-isis-te-app-13
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From: "Dailongfei (Larry, IP Research)" <larry.dai@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flooding Topology Computation Algorithm - draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-08 Working Group Adoption Call
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--_000_TY2PR03MB4077B30286EA1AEFC86C16AEE18C0TY2PR03MB4077apcp_--


From nobody Sat May 30 11:38:39 2020
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From: "Scott O. Bradner" <sob@sobco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Last-Call] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse-12
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thanks for the reply - see in line


> On May 28, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Scott,
>=20
> please see inline (##PP):
>=20
> On 27/05/2020 17:17, Scott Bradner via Datatracker wrote:
>> Reviewer: Scott Bradner
>> Review result: Not Ready
>> This is an OPS-DIR review of OSPF Link Traffic Engineering Attribute =
Reuse
>> (draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse)
>> This ID describes application-specific attribute advertisements for =
use in OSPF.
>> I found this ID hard to read and recommend that it be reviewed for =
readability.
>> I have a basic question about this proposal =E2=80=93 the ID =
describes specific
>> advertisements to be used when particular applications want to make =
use of
>> specific link attributes and says that other applications should not =
make of
>> the information in the advertisement without saying why such use =
would be a
>> problem.  I can imagine some reasons but it seems to me that it would =
be good
>> if this document just explained the problem it is trying to solve.
>=20
> ##PP
>=20
> There are two problems mentioned in the Introduction section:
>=20
> 1) Ambiguity in terms of which of the advertisements are to be used by =
RSVP-TE and which ones should not be. When RSVP was the only application =
using these attributes, advertisement of these attributes meant that =
RSVP was enabled on the link. Such link was considered as a part of the =
RSVP-TE topology. With other applications using and advertising these =
link attributes, this logic can not be used anymore, which created the =
mentioned ambiguity.
>=20
> 2) Lack of support for application specific values for the link =
attribute.
>=20
> I thought this was clear, but if it is not, please suggest what else =
needs to be said.

yes - I saw that but I missed seeing why these are a  problem - what =
harm can come form specifically the first one?
I fully expect there are real problems but I think it would be useful to =
say what they are

<snip>

>=20
>> Page 7 =E2=80=93 a =E2=80=9CUser Defined Application Identifier=E2=80=9D=
 is introduced but never
>> described =E2=80=93 what uses it and what is it used for
> ##PP
> we provide a way for the user to advertise link attributes for the =
purpose of something that is not defined as standardized application. =
What such application might be is not subject to the specification.

can that just be said?

>=20
>> Section 11 =E2=80=93 I found this discussion of the relationship =
between the existence
>> of a particular advertisement and the possible existence of an =
application to
>> use that advertisement to be quite confusing =E2=80=93 if the =
existence of a particular
>> advertisement does not indicate that any application is listening why =
not just
>> say that?
>=20
> ##PP
> there are applications where the application enablement on the link is =
relevant - e.g. RSVP-TE - one need to make sure that RSVP is enabled on =
the link before sending a RSVP signaling message over it.
>=20
> There are applications, where the enablement of the application on the =
link is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the fact that some link =
attributes are advertised for the purpose of such application - e.g. =
LFA.
>=20
> We have provided full flexibility to support both.

I think it would help to say that in the ID

<snip>

>=20
>> Section 12.3.3 =E2=80=93 I could not tell if this section is saying =
that the
>> application specific attribute advertisements could not be used if =
there is
>> even a single legacy router present of if the presence of such a =
router means
>> that the application specific attribute advertisements can be used =
but the old
>> advertisements must also be used=20
>=20
> ##PP
> a) as long as there is a single legacy router present, all routers =
MUST continue to advertise link attributes using legacy advertisements =
to allow the legacy router to function properly.
>=20
> b) new advertisements can be used in parallel and they can be used by =
the routers that do understand them.
>=20
> The text in 12.3.3 says:
>=20
>   "Send application specific advertisements while continuing to
>    advertise using legacy (all advertisements are then duplicated)."

I found it confusing - can you say what you said here?

>=20
>=20
>> Section 14 =E2=80=93 it might help to say how new Sub-TLV types can =
be added to the registry
>=20
> ##PP
> we are not defining a nynew registry, we only use existing ones. These =
registries have their own registration procedures.

I did not see a clear statement that said that was what you are doing or =
a clear pointer to where someone should go if they wanted to add a new =
value

Scott

>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> last-call mailing list
> last-call@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call


From nobody Sat May 30 14:03:46 2020
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Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 14:03:31 -0700
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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I think it will work for me as well -- thanks!

-Ben

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 08:03:17AM -0700, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> Just for the record, I’m ok with the latest text.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Alvaro.
> 
> On May 26, 2020 at 10:25:38 AM, Peter Psenak (ppsenak@cisco.com) wrote:
> 
> Hi Acee,
> 
> updated the text based on your comments.
> 
> thanks,
> Peter
> 
> 
> On 26/05/2020 16:07, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > This is in response to the previous Email on your suggested text.
> >
> > On 5/26/20, 4:26 AM, "Peter Psenak" <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Alvaro,
> >
> > please see inline (##PP)
> >
> > On 22/05/2020 16:59, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> > > On May 21, 2020 at 3:39:03 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter:
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > >
> > >> With respect to Alvaro's clarification, your answer for (1) makes
> sense;
> > >> thanks! I think Alvaro has offered to help work out what (if any)
> > >> additional text we might want to be sure that the answer to (2) is
> clear in
> > >> the document.
> > >
> > > I think that #1 is where some clarification could be useful. :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm including both ISIS and OSPF suggestions below to consolidate the
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > > ...
> > >>> My interpretation of Ben's question is two-fold:
> > >>>
> > >>> (1) Would ISIS routers normally propagate the information to a
> > >>> different level? The ELC is a new prefix attribute flag -- are prefix
> > >>> attributes always propagated (unchanged) to other levels? If so, then
> > >>> the requirement (MUST) is not needed. My reading of rfc7794 is that
> > >>> the propagation is optional...
> > >>
> > >> depends on the attribute or a bit. Some are propagated some are not.
> > >> That's why we are saying this one MUST be preserved.
> > >
> > > Right.
> > >
> > > For ISIS I think the current text is in line with the specification of
> > > the other bits in rfc7794. No changes are needed.
> > >
> > > If anything, you may want to change the order of this sentence to
> > > address Ben's comment:
> > >
> > > OLD>
> > > When a router propagates a prefix between ISIS levels ([RFC5302], it
> > > MUST preserve the ELC signaling for this prefix.
> > >
> > > NEW>
> > > The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when a router propagates a prefix
> > > between ISIS levels ([RFC5302]).
> > >
> > > [Similar for OSPF.]
> >
> > ##PP
> > done.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that for OSPF it is not that simple...
> > >
> > > For OSPFv2: rfc7684 says that the "scope of the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix
> > > Opaque LSA depends on the scope of the advertised prefixes", which I
> > > assume means that for intra-area prefixes the scope will be
> > > area-local...so the ABR wouldn't simply propagate it; it would have to
> > > originate a new LSA.
> >
> > ##PP
> > correct. It is always a new LSA that ABR needs to generate. Here it's
> > actually two LSAs.
> >
> > >
> > > Suggestion (Add to 3.1)>
> > > When an OSPFv2 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> > > connected areas it SHOULD originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque
> LSA
> > > [RFC7684] including the received ELC setting. If the received
> information
> > > is included in an LSA with an AS-wide scope, then the new LSA is not
> needed.
> >
> > Here's my suggestion for OSPFv2 ABR related text:
> >
> > "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPF Area Border Router
> > (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. To do so, ABR
> > MUST originate an OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including
> > the received ELC setting."
> >
> > Ok - I change "connected areas" to "areas" and "ABR MUST" to "an ABR
> MUST".
> >
> > Here's my suggested text for OSPFv2 ASBR case:
> >
> > "When an OSPF Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
> > prefix from another instance of OSPF or from some other protocol, it
> > SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. To do so,
> > ASBR SHOULD originate Extended Prefix Opaque LSA [RFC7684] including the
> > ELC setting of the redistributed prefix. The flooding scope of the
> > Extended Prefix Opaque LSA MUST match the flooding scope of the LSA that
> > ASBR originates as a result of the redistribution. The exact mechanism
> > used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on the ASBR is outside
> > of the scope of this document."
> >
> > Sure - replace "ASBR SHOULD" with "an ASBR SHOULD", "that ASBR" with
> "that an ASBR", and "the ASBR is" with "an ASBR is" to be consistent.
> > Also, "originate Extended" with "originate an Extended".
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > For OSPFv3: The PrefixOptions are *in* the LSA, but I couldn't find
> > > anything in rfc5340 saying that the received values should be copied
> > > into the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA (nor that they should not).
> > >
> > > Suggestion (Add to 3.2)>
> > > When an OSPFv3 Area Border Router (ABR) distributes information between
> > > connected areas, the setting of the ELC Flag in the
> Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA
> > > MUST be the same as the received value.
> >
> > Here's my suggestion for OSPFv3 ABR and ASBR:
> >
> > "The ELC signaling MUST be preserved when an OSPFv3 Area Border Router
> > (ABR) distributes information between connected areas. The setting of
> > the ELC Flag in the Inter-Area-Prefix-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
> > Inter-Area-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ABR, MUST be the same as
> > the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source area."
> >
> > Same change - replace "connected areas" with "areas" and "by ABR" with
> "by an ABR".
> >
> > "When an OSPFv3 Autonomous System Boundary Router (ASBR) redistributes a
> > prefix from another instance of OSPFv3 or from some other protocol, it
> > SHOULD preserve the ELC signaling for the prefix if it exists. The
> > setting of the ELC Flag in the AS-External-LSA [RFC5340] or in the
> > External-Prefix TLV [RFC8362], generated by ASBR, MUST be the same as
> > the value the ELC Flag associated with the prefix in the source domain.
> > The exact mechanism used to exchange ELC between protocol instances on
> > the ASBR is outside of the scope of this document.
> >
> > Add "NSSA-LSA" as a case. Replace "by ASBR" with "by an ASBR" and "value
> the ELC" with "value of the ELC".
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Acee
> >
> > thanks,
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>> (2) If the propagation is not automatic, and the L1L2 router doesn't
> > >>> support this specification, then what are the drawbacks/failure
> > >>> scenarios? IOW, for multi-level operation is it a requirement that
> > >>> the L1L2 support this specification?
> > >>
> > >> drawback are identical to what is mentioned in the Security
> > >> Considerations section.
> > >
> > > I think that text is ok.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Alvaro.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >


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COMMENT:
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Thank you for educating me, and addressing the minor residual remains of my discuss point
that were left after that, as well as my comments.




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COMMENT:
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Thank you for educating me, and addressing the minor residual remains of my discuss point
that were left after that, as well as my comments.



