From nobody Sat Aug 1 22:58:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C943A0787; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:58:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bd-hEWBLid8R; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd36.google.com (mail-io1-xd36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0600B3A0786; Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd36.google.com with SMTP id s189so28290101iod.2; Sat, 01 Aug 2020 22:58:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MJbM5CyPPuBzobZ/rHHZzwcPOfcJHDFtsnI2nOgNWyE=; b=Pq4EVw55ywvOKNzJRrzHAyB+D4H2cZ2/DM5BKw64lOdA1rxKBIhM7yfVKyOBgeaZYl Dho4wEC4A1iLvAi5YIcTbK8ODKFavPJ/9PeG3GWzWkMC0nZGsIackABy5jNeGf0yiSVC LfxnHNEdSjhlQniLnqimVNC0VMwA9vaBsanXG2tl+TIZ3WoO5H9mB62MCSoQHugV9b8P H1L/G9Nmnb2TKOcDsLwLTraaau+GXQfjIMIsMrX6JSKF+d+isQT+PAWWzFVxhiXO1bpg cUusMG9mrKTo8OQepZEKjV1qOIVlGQkzrOn+rTFJjuASbwCeLgIGJEE7ldQrhvdXz3w4 3zdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MJbM5CyPPuBzobZ/rHHZzwcPOfcJHDFtsnI2nOgNWyE=; b=i5pj81fnunrD+LlEG3JtLtvqSWS5YLUc/1KYb6av5py9B3REwniVoy9upQ9mCrGEc1 Q+9M0TSVxFifAMyfaHngHDN8D6DV1igjKg09a3KOkT4Hj6hH6GoBI+U+crSA9xM5TRj6 dzqZ6eEPRNDpvBvteYja/7qPxRTdm0g2tlod+nbP1qZ/XKZhUgvtKDy07uu15iPz0FD6 Q7+C+7YBFxSHdQlIte0KKzCypIxG17RYlvIrMpX+ztPown2A2AeRMbYkfmMNh8wNtEnm t3oPFav1YrSKIOLQYPgAyjP7XZpnXK8ehR9RvMrrWTf8KGcRk32T96Wm4UGD5frDtdyI 7rBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332EbOoJo7TLNGLMJaZsLEyTefMZ5hUq60iMQt/siFsBMgrCK/Y Rqp3HuL0JCjE7//MGu3Vv3yFVrVDEJ7aCOdOf4zCT00= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwjVSOimy/bIR7EsVHRpnQaO6oaVeBX+lG82Oz9oWvMt3s4l8uKA1BCUCZ3XiZzf0+WYnXkt8/3juPHm5pe8JM= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:d519:: with SMTP id e25mr11382273iom.36.1596347935140; Sat, 01 Aug 2020 22:58:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Yingzhen Qu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 22:58:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009caf8705abdeb703" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IETF 108 LSR Meeting Minutes X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2020 05:58:57 -0000 --0000000000009caf8705abdeb703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, Thanks to everyone who attended the IETF 108 LSR session and the good discussions. The meeting minutes including chat history have been uploaded: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-lsr-00 Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks, Yingzhen --0000000000009caf8705abdeb703 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Thanks to ever= yone who attended the IETF 108 LSR session and the good discussions.
<= div>
The meeting minutes including chat history have been upl= oaded:=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/minutes/minutes-108-lsr-0= 0=C2=A0

Please let=C2=A0me know if you have an= y questions or comments.

Thanks,
Yingzhe= n
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<29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 19:31:08 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8918c05abfc817a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:31:28 -0000 --000000000000a8918c05abfc817a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" *Les,* *> But currently the draft is defining a SID which is NOT associated with a prefix.* + > *But if the proposal is to use a SID associated with a prefix then I see no need to invent a new SID advertisement.* How about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property of an area) then assign SID to it ? - - - How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID. Thx, R. --000000000000a8918c05abfc817a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Les,

<= /div>&g= t; But currently the draft is defining a SID which is NOT associated with a= prefix.=C2=A0=C2=A0
+
>=C2=A0But if the p= roposal is to use a SID associated with a prefix then I see no need to inve= nt a new SID advertisement.

How about we= first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property of an= area) then assign SID to it ?=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0
=

How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic (read= ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID.=C2=A0
=
Thx,=
R.

--000000000000a8918c05abfc817a-- From nobody Mon Aug 3 10:35:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AAD63A0F9D for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:35:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sj_MAMjr7Hpe for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x529.google.com (mail-pg1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E988A3A0F8E for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x529.google.com with SMTP id o13so20350482pgf.0 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=RzY1Bd2/O/LV/K8I3f3NTTa7Yz0WdJ1cqWTjMxJeyl8=; b=T03caQYIgr+IB3r5suCI6CyfULkkw4AKB+ir+PUM/Jyi2QxLIV3kWIuOiC5g2gq9Sg L/JCZQSZcIj3PABs3PZhz2BFLOezQ/CM0/5F8U1wwU1OWsv2y9G/usgULyuB1Hiw82Vk +YBr08A9G47PbIAJG9Mk1vQwZBtpvMkSGsL+d0quhdqfGXmmEa6c/d50HamLAumZcz67 PBi5CynICbyar/iVbNaDD0h11VAoezQ+OA6gAYF8eUjz74zK97ZW6vqJ9gvpV6IgCBPL LZJK5sIyIWvtlCfoqwv2S3C0M1Vuf4K5nG2gVDwTcd39ndRMSIYdAlCwNoIqBOtF0k7f EupA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=RzY1Bd2/O/LV/K8I3f3NTTa7Yz0WdJ1cqWTjMxJeyl8=; b=YcN34LSrKzqLF9GQ6H+4INQSdBa1rC12pJIuRh3KPvhiJx2CHqM/0N9hD5YU5vsS1f tgKC6qfz9f3vKn6yD5LywrPIfT0g6DbctmIS4eNN/cJPnUv1dnQGg3VeMIvQmvH5Je63 gs2qqCvePyROz49uns1P+owAyr1pz+OzSaifDfPpy3vhxZV7lcTy2gIit9h4gKLuv97E FpE02eMKUf4TcOAry+TSvq6uP28W/ctCBVT/Clb4Lo8ralo4Ju7VfosvTSWvI06cafRV hrGB5tl6m4EHvpETPxI7JVOlsd4WqkGWkl4L82zOfrZ0D3I3WZal8Qv0rGvkFik9XG+a VisA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530+KGwsUiC0DpgEMV+SPzpJGboNs/ena56C3dWJixuFi7x3v5+Q vNK6cZlUEBoNMziaOJLV6P8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy0id3XDa9NXuvvOwRkCPkARtYbw7t7a9zmsT6++XMCkc817E+N8czhRk22p3FeKEfpbc6PIA== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:81c1:: with SMTP id c1mr12953459pfn.203.1596476098252; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.36] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a2sm6500705pfh.152.2020.08.03.10.34.52 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <49590F17-430E-48B7-8C96-CDD30D8A1FBD@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B6A0AD4B-F594-4625-803F-4B085D5B0C42" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:34:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: <8FE4F607-F062-44C5-ABA5-CC94B50353A4@cisco.com> Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <159572796513.12445.6949559311624487038@ietfa.amsl.com> <5527A777-4FBC-4EA6-8284-E7771DE2E733@tony.li> <23641_1596126124_5F22F3AC_23641_95_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F03814@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8689_1596187448_5F23E338_8689_312_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F05036@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8FE4F607-F062-44C5-ABA5-CC94B50353A4@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:35:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B6A0AD4B-F594-4625-803F-4B085D5B0C42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Acee, > [Acee] I know you guys have all thought about this a lot more than = myself. However, I=E2=80=99d envisioned this new Area SID as taking one = to the closest entry to the abstracted area. The next SID in the stack = would either take you to a destination inside the area or would use the = abstracted area as transit to another SID. I believe that is the core of the semantics that we are all agreed upon. = The question is how to get there. Tony --Apple-Mail=_B6A0AD4B-F594-4625-803F-4B085D5B0C42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Acee,

[Acee] I know you guys have all thought about = this a lot more than myself. However, I=E2=80=99d envisioned this new = Area SID as taking one to the closest entry to the abstracted area. The = next SID in the stack would either take you to a destination inside the = area or would use the abstracted area as transit to another SID.
I believe that is the core of the semantics that = we are all agreed upon.  The question is how to get = there.

Tony


= --Apple-Mail=_B6A0AD4B-F594-4625-803F-4B085D5B0C42-- From nobody Mon Aug 3 10:37:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6BB3A0FD1 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdATJigmps1q for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1032.google.com (mail-pj1-x1032.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E09543A0FCA for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1032.google.com with SMTP id kr4so325618pjb.2 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=MeIxkzVrZmGYDuGF2nJZ8ZhWOhf7RI3VXu364OUHBfo=; b=cVMeQYB3GakHuIYgNP+Fwv1b8YXimxok7Pi588TGUByapnOl5OtwAyyAmz+ynOCn3m fOg9I+xg7x4wUCbmmxb+kWXsOFM5INzFEVpcHL9O/8OMOwZjHWvkjQpWSCw2cDVljTFW LmhvQM81RN7BYHhgI7mVvAyeo2wDljyxau4P7w4JUJ0RW7mV2laqSh2vM1PebhGyPngK wO4LObGHE1T+BfAJ4T59+xi27OVK4atGg/as9dIub2UsgFnZfHtKWGiRz0U3v79gUclB R5kZRLeHjtcCmv/4sR94oTaYWa3ltgrlqEM4qX/ZkobRJutu4rEeBygcpvfgASPpFj8/ 25og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=MeIxkzVrZmGYDuGF2nJZ8ZhWOhf7RI3VXu364OUHBfo=; b=QTE+DfYAym42byfzNvtlViJtDPCcyFbgHv5i6tJXxQsf/rbJToCyibYtwc94v1UNLf pRb/90ZRlbdOLtD1rLdukM8IFdrRYqWM5rdq1SCvLdQVRiXEnR0LZdGStQ8wrdnCoiZC 5EEEgvY2lV8j1Rncu3Fq6IkcmDEMtpuhBqEjRex6O8aFJLsJHz0WbWexsQxS/NvkNz3Y dTUH3w6LMbD3Z7mNnIiSXT5YhweVoaxNnNyT1L8hh4xTYS5V2e163B1YDWMipm2WcgVc Uwk5w54iRg9fQmD83RdPXdB3gduGZONRxfprudn7miTmdIsT+dpKkLqqcZCIF3MkHTKr xTUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KeLdQCA0LP/tieoyzZ1oMSrTt18z2VypNRoEePpb9qlZ+dk1P TVYFW4HRbMeIrXolMcw86y0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxy1pwARmpWlXhbt6b+P1qXnhwIKsfnziPX0j1wGjaSuQ9B6oMgeiu6F/wc1ZG2hpOZBksQDw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9009:: with SMTP id a9mr14592427plp.252.1596476260392; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.36] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j5sm20968171pfg.80.2020.08.03.10.37.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <36F7BFA8-E3FD-4500-A83B-48651481DB0D@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_43D3F264-921E-4E84-87B5-1A87E224D035" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:37:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Robert Raszuk References: <159572796513.12445.6949559311624487038@ietfa.amsl.com> <5527A777-4FBC-4EA6-8284-E7771DE2E733@tony.li> <23641_1596126124_5F22F3AC_23641_95_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F03814@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8689_1596187448_5F23E338_8689_312_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F05036@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:37:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_43D3F264-921E-4E84-87B5-1A87E224D035 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Robert, > How about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a = property of an area) then assign SID to it ?=20 That=E2=80=99s effectively what Bruno is proposing. It adds some = additional configuration and management overhead. Do you think it=E2=80=99= s worthwhile? > How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic = (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID.=20 Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel endpoint, which is actually not one = of the goals for Area Proxy. Tony --Apple-Mail=_43D3F264-921E-4E84-87B5-1A87E224D035 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Robert,

How = about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property of = an area) then assign SID to it = ? 


That=E2=80=99s effectively = what Bruno is proposing.  It adds some additional configuration and = management overhead.  Do you think it=E2=80=99s = worthwhile?



How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to = direct traffic (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any = SID. 



Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel endpoint, = which is actually not one of the goals for Area Proxy.

Tony


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15.20.3239.021; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:39:36 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHWZpiOmIZx/bCri0uW0nBRUTSKfKkha3sAgACNOgCABBUqgIAAdOjQgAAMMACAAAXrYIAAFasAgAABwSA= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:39:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <159572796513.12445.6949559311624487038@ietfa.amsl.com> <5527A777-4FBC-4EA6-8284-E7771DE2E733@tony.li> <23641_1596126124_5F22F3AC_23641_95_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F03814@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8689_1596187448_5F23E338_8689_312_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F05036@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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<8689_1596187448_5F23E338_8689_312_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F05036@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <36F7BFA8-E3FD-4500-A83B-48651481DB0D@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <36F7BFA8-E3FD-4500-A83B-48651481DB0D@tony.li> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 19:41:24 +0200 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d143105abfca6cc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:41:38 -0000 --0000000000005d143105abfca6cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, If I am not mistaken that additional overhead would only need to happen on participating in this game ABRs. If so I think this is worthwhile. > Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel endpoint Endpoint ? Not midpoint ? Or better sort of ski lift transit point with embedded direction in the original dst ? Thx R. On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:37 PM wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > How about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property o= f > an area) then assign SID to it ? > > > > That=E2=80=99s effectively what Bruno is proposing. It adds some additio= nal > configuration and management overhead. Do you think it=E2=80=99s worthwh= ile? > > > > How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic (rea= d > ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID. > > > > > Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel endpoint, which is actually not one > of the goals for Area Proxy. > > Tony > > > --0000000000005d143105abfca6cc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tony,

If I am not mistaken that additional overhead would only need to h= appen on participating in this game ABRs. If so I think this is worthwhile.= =C2=A0

> Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel e= ndpoint

Endpoint ? Not midpoint ? Or better=C2=A0s= ort of ski lift transit point with embedded direction in the original dst ?= =C2=A0

Thx
R.



On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:37 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:
Hi Robert,

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
How about we first define an "Area Prefix&quo= t; (IP address being a property of an area) then assign SID to it ?=C2=A0


Tha= t=E2=80=99s effectively what Bruno is proposing.=C2=A0 It adds some additio= nal configuration and management overhead.=C2=A0 Do you think it=E2=80=99s = worthwhile?



How odd it may sound I would li= ke to still be able to direct traffic (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area w= ithout any SID.=C2=A0

<= br>

Well, that becomes an anycast tunnel endpoint,= which is actually not one of the goals for Area Proxy.

Tony


--0000000000005d143105abfca6cc-- From nobody Mon Aug 3 10:47:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0453A1032 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NjF2WdG-YCy0 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF4373A1031 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2020 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a26so13748899ejc.2 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:47:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UZwuwg4GshMwKkXkbk5HtAbQDWg1g31a6u82aeEIhQU=; b=c/ir74rVlXYZ4Us1kVsI7Gem+JTokQBjWhAy09mBrY2lUeuiJhHAfnDKwxpP1pjpWP Brx4ChESgr0i8mGKqDeLNmh41Ghm6a4myDY1vURTPiUYJ8DiFnAvqRO4xCY+gg+OU8YB QaGkACBAwcco1XD31j573QxQOXKKRI47Yoxtm2z2EXiavDeLiHi+ubeO0QcRLhxJWCl+ Vz23lIgxNVfq5bjO/LZsp7ljN3u1VdY4bndm/ySCgPPbKA+FxodsHtaibx1QOF5QaTm4 p66Id2o+Wh/wy0BpWdtkdMCnHbknXYoBks+R6Ha/iHZBlq2xBxeP9UZjzXSbTUbM2xqF 7H+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UZwuwg4GshMwKkXkbk5HtAbQDWg1g31a6u82aeEIhQU=; b=qxCcJjbVtxIUx/ddJIYXH2s8pJWD7o7c7v/vCv/k4c4hUumdhgAfn5Zx85I0BQsRy3 6auVNsO7WakdI7hbeeK127r8Y8ROIg2q2z344XT7gLd3w3pGGuwMT2fDGXu4zT7xrDXb /a5PDVPRxkLC9k3e+H7HTyKB14XdRr9Cecy0ss9vjYc+VsZe4pwy8HsmH+VeRGUQFiCU v19Vv7I8Ll+SlPaPrS91fndLfXIMq1hMc3PmAFMH5e4Y+D/RwLZsM1nYG6xCseuMX170 K5KVDi5o8NUrkb41q99vQcZwFyqnSqLhgVqKt19ZpoG1U9cCQU2Hkt7WVCXKbFNP68nd BoJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ES7vxCUphgITkPdaYRu9iWtVqTE1Aly9++RlFgSTE5Qk9Jeoq JtcsOiOjLnLpl38+uZgm6mAZ+LSzjNtyrvpJzHdIyw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwvlITJe0fVqTG7/K3cqtOlImIsgdpJR7mV0HleYaBaGBGVFPW/NyWkL2d84htXbYxpNIiPLjp5dbqNg4pHa1c= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:868d:: with SMTP id g13mr17447491ejx.242.1596476831363; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 10:47:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159572796513.12445.6949559311624487038@ietfa.amsl.com> <5527A777-4FBC-4EA6-8284-E7771DE2E733@tony.li> <23641_1596126124_5F22F3AC_23641_95_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F03814@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <8689_1596187448_5F23E338_8689_312_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F05036@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 19:47:01 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d3dbb05abfcba9b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:47:15 -0000 --0000000000006d3dbb05abfcba9b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, Well I am talking about IP routable identifier which I can place on the front of the packet and which can assure that the packet will arrive at given area. Then Area SID becomes analogy of Node SID :) Thx On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Robert =E2=80=93 > > > > Both OSPF and IS-IS have area identifiers which are advertised. > > Why would we need to invent another identifier for an area? > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2020 10:31 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* bruno.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt > > > > *Les,* > > > > *> But currently the draft is defining a SID which is NOT associated with > a prefix.* > > + > > > *But if the proposal is to use a SID associated with a prefix then I > see no need to invent a new SID advertisement.* > > > > How about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property o= f > an area) then assign SID to it ? > > > > - - - > > > > How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic (rea= d > ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID. > > > > Thx, > R. > > > --0000000000006d3dbb05abfcba9b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Les,

Well I am talking about IP rout= able identifier=C2=A0which I can place on the front of the packet and which= can assure that the packet will arrive at given area.=C2=A0

=
Then Area SID becomes analogy of Node SID :)

Thx

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
=

Robert =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

Both OSPF and IS-IS have area identifiers which are = advertised.

Why would we need to invent another identifier for a= n area?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:31 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: b= runo.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-= area-proxy-02.txt

=C2=A0

Les,

=C2=A0

> But currently the draft is defining a SID= which is NOT associated with a prefix.=C2=A0=C2=A0

+

>=C2=A0But if the proposal is to use a SID = associated with a prefix then I see no need to invent a new SID advertiseme= nt.

=C2=A0

How about we first define an "Area Prefix"= (IP address being a property of an area) then assign SID to it ?=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

=C2=A0

How odd it may sound I would like to still be able t= o direct traffic (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

=C2=A0

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<29827_1596442221_5F27C66D_29827_84_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0974E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <20913_1596469945_5F2832B9_20913_328_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0A516@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 20:14:11 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "tony.li@tony.li" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e18f005abfd1b8a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2020 18:14:25 -0000 --0000000000009e18f005abfd1b8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les, > You need to allow that not everything in the world is identified by an IP/IPv6 address. Thought we are talking about WAN networks here and not about the world :) > assign a common anycast address on all nodes. First not all nodes need to participate here. At most ABRs. Then if you already have a summary route from a given area - you do not need to invent anything else - area summary routes are effectively area prefixes. And in fact last time I checked routable too. > I can associate the SID with an identifier Do you ping SID or IP address ? Maybe time for examples. What would be your MPLS area SID format ? How about SRv6 SID format for the same ? Bottom line I think we must not lock ourselves into single transport technology - that's all I am after here. Thx, Robert. On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:56 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Robert =E2=80=93 > > > > You need to allow that not everything in the world is identified by an > IP/IPv6 address. > > > > If you want an IP address shared by all nodes in an area there is already > a mean of doing that: assign a common anycast address on all nodes. > > > > The value add (if there is any) of an Area SID is that I don=E2=80=99t ha= ve to > assign an anycast address to all nodes. I can associate the SID with an > identifier that is already shared and known by all nodes in the area. > > If you don=E2=80=99t see that as worthwhile, fine, let=E2=80=99s abandon = the Area SID idea. > > > > Les > > > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* bruno.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt > > > > Hi Les, > > > > Well I am talking about IP routable identifier which I can place on the > front of the packet and which can assure that the packet will arrive at > given area. > > > > Then Area SID becomes analogy of Node SID :) > > > > Thx > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > Robert =E2=80=93 > > > > Both OSPF and IS-IS have area identifiers which are advertised. > > Why would we need to invent another identifier for an area? > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2020 10:31 AM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Cc:* bruno.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02.txt > > > > *Les,* > > > > *> But currently the draft is defining a SID which is NOT associated with > a prefix.* > > + > > > *But if the proposal is to use a SID associated with a prefix then I > see no need to invent a new SID advertisement.* > > > > How about we first define an "Area Prefix" (IP address being a property o= f > an area) then assign SID to it ? > > > > - - - > > > > How odd it may sound I would like to still be able to direct traffic (rea= d > ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID. > > > > Thx, > R. > > > > --0000000000009e18f005abfd1b8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Les,

>=C2=A0 You need to = allow that not everything in the world is identified by an IP/IPv6 address.= =C2=A0=C2=A0

Thought we are=C2=A0talking about= WAN networks here and=C2=A0not about the world :)=C2=A0

>=C2=A0 assign a common anycast address on all nodes.

First not all nodes need to participa= te here. At most ABRs.=C2=A0

Then if you already h= ave a summary route from a given area - you do not need to invent anything = else - area summary routes are effectively area prefixes. And in fact last = time I checked routable too.=C2=A0

>=C2=A0 I can associate the SID with an identifier=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>

Do you=C2=A0ping SID or IP address= ?=C2=A0

Maybe time for examples.=C2=A0
=
What would be your MPLS area SID format ? How about SRv6 SID= format for the same ?=C2=A0

Bottom li= ne I think we must not lock ourselves into single transport technology - th= at's all I am after here.=C2=A0

Thx,
Robert= .


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:56 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
=

Robert =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

You need to allow that not everything in the world i= s identified by an IP/IPv6 address.

=C2=A0

If you want an IP address shared by all nodes in an = area there is already a mean of doing that: assign a common anycast address= on all nodes.

=C2=A0

The value add (if there is any) of an Area SID is th= at I don=E2=80=99t have to assign an anycast address to all nodes. I can as= sociate the SID with an identifier that is already shared and known by all = nodes in the area.

If you don=E2=80=99t see that as worthwhile, fine, l= et=E2=80=99s abandon the Area SID idea.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: b= runo.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-= area-proxy-02.txt

=C2=A0

Hi Les,

=C2=A0

Well I am talking about IP routable identifier=C2=A0= which I can place on the front of the packet and which can assure that the = packet will arrive at given area.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Then Area SID becomes analogy of Node SID :)<= u>

=C2=A0

Thx

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsber= g) <ginsberg@cis= co.com> wrote:

Robert =E2=80=93

=C2=A0

Both OSPF and IS-IS have area identifiers which are = advertised.

Why would we need to invent another identifier for a= n area?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:31 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: b= runo.decraene@orange.com; tony.li@tony.li; <= a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"> lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-lsr-isis-= area-proxy-02.txt

=C2=A0

Les,

=C2=A0

> But currently the draft is defining a SID= which is NOT associated with a prefix.=C2=A0=C2=A0

+

>=C2=A0But if the proposal is to use a SID = associated with a prefix then I see no need to invent a new SID advertiseme= nt.

=C2=A0

How about we first define an "Area Prefix"= (IP address being a property of an area) then assign SID to it ?=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

- - -=C2=A0

=C2=A0

How odd it may sound I would like to still be able t= o direct traffic (read ip tunnel) traffic to an area without any SID.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

Thx,
R.

=C2=A0

--0000000000009e18f005abfd1b8a-- From nobody Tue Aug 4 05:45:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6E73A0AEC for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 05:45:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xRZAQoWlsBn9 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 05:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 457183A0AEF for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 05:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BLZGt3zqdz8wYt for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:45:26 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1596545126; bh=SBZQ+hZv3Eda5X0bPgxH7mQPi4ZEkq1QTq3lnFoDXsM=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=rDlgkjePA5uWqAImp8ymBoi6Ze3quPsM00Ws1DRUd/nr5n+b9cN33XMNP+9ssVp8g JraS+l6RkBKzq6Hf7g0JZicBcHVCYh+nbL18FN0b+xNFdnRmzrNmgX0R48EHbEbgqy 5U7JPt4UjnvWbFBZMdPKFUrVMFI4uugVxWJyYJ3ImOnzeVFrmb61PEnsdYNRV+5/2k uu7jeEO5B6SJf3mxQjhtMrASVN2CB5BPYXb2hrrKkevcg0widLfaP1gQG414hJF+3x tzEhZ5h27zlgd56FbnVaN1y7EHAMfxgpPe6PZTX9neqZgxN1MHLcPQstjyUB3W+1rq iiE5YrFvd4/ig== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.60]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BLZGt3C76z1xnn for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:45:26 +0200 (CEST) From: To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Thread-Index: AdZqV1bpaX43pBLFSuS5ho/MIT6lUQ== Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 12:45:25 +0000 Message-ID: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:45:33 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I may be missing something but the SR Binding SID TLV extension is not cle= ar to me. 1) It does not seem compliant with RFC 8667 Draft says that the advertisement has: T-flag set, M & A flags cleared, SID= /Label sub-TLV present, Prefix-SID sub-TLV NOT present The following extensions to the Binding TLV are defined in order to support Area SID: A new flag is defined: T-flag: The SID directs traffic to an area. (Bit 5) When T-flag is set: M and A flag MUST be clear Range and Prefix are ignored Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when the M-Flag and T-flag are both clear. The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST NOT be present when either the M-Flag or T-flag are set." Regarding the SID/Label sub-TLV Section 2.4.5 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "It MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when either the M-Flag or T-flag is set in the Flags field of the parent TLV." https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#page-14 By definition, legacy L2 external node will support vanilla RFC 8667, whic= h says: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when t= he M-Flag is clear." https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-binding-tlv So it seems that the extension violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as regar= ding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV - Area proxy says "MUST NOT be present" (as T-flag is set) - RFC 8667 says "MUST be present" (as M-flag is cleared) In addition to the above, legacy node _will_ interpret the 'Range' and 'Pre= fix' fields. So there is probably a need to specify which values need to be= advertised for those legacy nodes. A priori range would be one as a single= SID is advertised. Prefix seems more problematic as you need to find an IP= prefix to advertise. And please let's avoid SID conflict and Prefix confli= ct... 2) It's not clear to me whether the segment/SID is global or local. As per my understanding of the draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy use case, the= area-proxy SID would be global (in the external L2): "Area SID which will = direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers." But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indicatin= g whether the SID is global or local. One could argue that if it carries a = label it's a local SID and if it carries and index it's a global SID. But t= his has not been specified. It has also no "algorithm" indicating how it needs to be routed global, so = at minimum would not work with different routing algo/flex algo. I'm not seeing in RFC 8402 or 8667 any text saying that such SID would be g= lobal hence globally routed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS SID was lo= cal, but arguably also can't find text stating this). At minimum, area-proxy would need to specify whether the SID is global and = local. And if global, with which hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I woul= d assume "0") Thanks, Regards, --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I may be missing something but the SR Binding SID TLV extension  is not clear to me.

 

1)   &nbs= p;  It does not seem compliant with RFC 8667

 

Draft says that the advertisement has: T-flag set, M & A flags clear= ed, SID/Label sub-TLV present, Prefix-SID sub-TLV NOT present

 

The following extensions to the Binding TLV are defined in or=
der to
   support =
Area SID:
 
    &nbs=
p; A new flag is defined:
 
    &nbs=
p;    T-flag: The SID directs traffic to an area.  (Bit 5)
 
    &nbs=
p;    When T-flag is set:
 
    &nbs=
p;       M and A flag MUST be clear
 
    &nbs=
p;       Range and Prefix are ignored<=
o:p>
 
    &nbs=
p; Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667 is altered to say:<=
/pre>

 


    &nbs=
p;    "T=
he Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label

    &nbs=
p;    Binding TLV when the M-Flag and T-flag are both=
 clear.  The=



    &nbs=
p;    Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST NOT be present when eit=
her the M-Flag


    &nbs=
p;    or T-flag are set."


 


    &nbs=
p; Regarding the SID/Label sub-TLV Section 2.4.5 of RFC 8=
667 is


    &nbs=
p; altered to say:


 


    &nbs=
p;    "It MUST be present in the SID/Label Bindi=
ng TLV when either


    &nbs=
p;    the M-Flag or T-flag is set in the Flags field =
of the parent


    &nbs=
p;    TLV."


 


https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#pag=
e-14


 


 


 


By definition, legacy L2 external
 node will support vanilla RFC=
 8667, which says:


“The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding T=
LV when the M-Flag is clear.”


https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-bindi=
ng-tlv


 


So it seems that the extension violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as re=
garding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV


- =
        
Area proxy says “MUST NOT be present” (as T-flag is =
set)


- =
        
RFC 8667 says “MUST be present” (as M-flag is cleare=
d)


 


 


In addition to the above, legacy node _will_ interpret the ‘=
;Range’ and ‘Prefix’ fields. So there is probably a need =
to specify which values need to be advertised for those legacy
 nodes. A priori range would be one as a single SID is advertised. Prefix s=
eems more problematic as you need to find an IP prefix to advertise. And pl=
ease let’s avoid SID conflict and Prefix conflict...


 


2)   &nbs=
p; 
It’s not clear to me whether the segment/SID is global or =
local.


As per my understanding of the draft-ietf-=
lsr-isis-area-p=
roxy use case, the area-proxy SID would be global
 (in the external L2): “Area=
 SID which will direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers.”


 


But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indica=
ting whether the SID is global or local. One could argue that if it carries=
 a label it’s a local SID and if it carries
 and index it’s a global SID. But this has not been specified.


It has also no “algorithm” indicating how it needs to be rou=
ted global, so at minimum would not work with different routing
algo/flex algo.=



I’m not seeing in RFC 8402 or 8667 any text saying that such SID w=
ould be global hence globally routed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS S=
ID was local, but arguably also can’t find text
 stating this).


 


At minimum, area-proxy would need to specify whether the SID is global a=
nd local. And if global, with which hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I w=
ould assume “0”)


 


 


Thanks,


Regards,


--Bruno


 


______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno - Please see inline. From: Lsr On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 5:45 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Hi, I may be missing something but the SR Binding SID TLV extension is not cle= ar to me. 1. It does not seem compliant with RFC 8667 Draft says that the advertisement has: T-flag set, M & A flags cleared, SID= /Label sub-TLV present, Prefix-SID sub-TLV NOT present The following extensions to the Binding TLV are defined in order to support Area SID: A new flag is defined: T-flag: The SID directs traffic to an area. (Bit 5) When T-flag is set: M and A flag MUST be clear Range and Prefix are ignored Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when the M-Flag and T-flag are both clear. The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST NOT be present when either the M-Flag or T-flag are set." Regarding the SID/Label sub-TLV Section 2.4.5 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "It MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when either the M-Flag or T-flag is set in the Flags field of the parent TLV." https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#page-14 By definition, legacy L2 external node will support vanilla RFC 8667, whic= h says: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when t= he M-Flag is clear." https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-binding-tlv So it seems that the extension violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as regar= ding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV * Area proxy says "MUST NOT be present" (as T-flag is set) * RFC 8667 says "MUST be present" (as M-flag is cleared) In addition to the above, legacy node _will_ interpret the 'Range' and 'Pre= fix' fields. So there is probably a need to specify which values need to be= advertised for those legacy nodes. A priori range would be one as a single= SID is advertised. Prefix seems more problematic as you need to find an IP= prefix to advertise. And please let's avoid SID conflict and Prefix confli= ct... [Les:] Format of the Binding TLV when the new T-bit is set is similar to th= e format when the M-bit is set in that Prefix-SID sub-TLV is NOT present. A legacy node parsing the Binding TLV would be looking for the Prefix-SID s= ub-TLV (M-bit NOT set) and would not find it. The contents of the Binding T= LV would therefore be unusable to a legacy node. The correct behaviour for a legacy node would be to (optionally) report an = "invalid TLV" and to ignore the TLV. 1. It's not clear to me whether the segment/SID is global or local. As per my understanding of the draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy use case, the= area-proxy SID would be global (in the external L2): "Area SID which will = direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers." But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indicatin= g whether the SID is global or local. One could argue that if it carries a = label it's a local SID and if it carries and index it's a global SID. But t= his has not been specified. It has also no "algorithm" indicating how it needs to be routed global, so = at minimum would not work with different routing algo/flex algo. I'm not seeing in RFC 8402 or 8667 any text saying that such SID would be g= lobal hence globally routed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS SID was lo= cal, but arguably also can't find text stating this). [Les:] There is a subtle difference between the Prefix-SID sub-TLV as defin= ed in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#section-2.1 and the SID/L= abel sub-TLV defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#SIDLABE= LSUBTLV The Prefix-SID sub-TLV has a flags field which includes V-bit/L-bit to indi= cate whether the variable length field which follows is a 3 byte label (bot= h bits set to 1) or a 4 byte index (both bits set to 0). The SID/Label sub-TLV has no flags field. The length of the sub-TLV indicat= es whether the advertised value has is a label (length =3D 3) or an index = (length =3D 4). I see no issue here. I would also point out that the new Area Proxy SID sub-TLV ( https://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#section-4.3.2 ) does includ= e V/L bits - similar to the Prefix-SID sub-TLV. At minimum, area-proxy would need to specify whether the SID is global and = local. And if global, with which hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I woul= d assume "0") [Les:]Just as the Mirror SID has no algorithm associated, neither does the = Area SID. If you feel that is an issue, please expand on how you intend to use an alg= orithm specific Area SID. Thus far you seem more inclined to use an anycast Prefix-SID, so I am not = clear on what you think is needed here and why. I would agree that if algorithm is required it is currently not available -= but it is not yet clear that algorithm is required. Les Thanks, Regards, --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BY5PR11MB43375CB413060250B336BE64C14A0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bruno –

 

Please see inline.

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 5:45 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02

 

Hi,

 

I may be missing something but = the SR Binding SID TLV extension  is not clear to me.

 

  1. It does not seem compliant with RFC 8667

 

Draft says that the advertiseme= nt has: T-flag set, M & A flags cleared, SID/Label sub-TLV present, Pre= fix-SID sub-TLV NOT present

 

The following extens=
ions to the Binding TLV are defined in order to
   support=
 Area SID:
 
   &n=
bsp;  A new flag is defined:
 
   &n=
bsp;     T-flag: The SID directs traffic to an area.&nb=
sp; (Bit 5)
 
   &n=
bsp;     When T-flag is set:
 
   &n=
bsp;        M and A flag MUST be clear
 
   &n=
bsp;        Range and Prefix are ignored=

 
   &n=
bsp;  Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667=
 is altered to say:
 
   &n=
bsp;     "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present i=
n the SID/Label
   &n=
bsp;     Binding TLV when the M-Flag and T-flag are bot=
h clear.  The
   &n=
bsp;     Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST NOT be present when ei=
ther the M-Flag
   &n=
bsp;     or T-flag are set."

 


   &n=
bsp;  Regarding the SID/Label sub-TLV Section 2.4.5 of RFC 8667 is


   &n=
bsp;  altered to say:


 


   &n=
bsp;     "It MUST be present in the SID/Label Bind=
ing TLV when either


   &n=
bsp;     the M-Flag or T-flag is set in the Flags field=
 of the parent


   &n=
bsp;     TLV."=



 


https://tools.ietf.org/h=
tml/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#page-14


 


 


 


By definition, legacy L2 extern=
al  node will support vanilla RFC 8667, which says:<=
/p>

“The Prefix-SID sub-TLV M=
UST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when the M-Flag is clear.”=
;


https://www.rfc-editor.=
org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-binding-tlv


 


So it seems that the extension =
violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as regarding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV


    

  • Area proxy says “MUST NOT be present”=
; (as T-flag is set)
  • RFC 8=
667 says “MUST be present” (as M-flag is cleared)


 


 


In addition to the above, legac=
y node _will_ interpret the ‘Range’ and ‘Prefix=
217; fields. So there is probably a need to specify which values need to be=
 advertised for those legacy nodes. A priori range would be
 one as a single SID is advertised. Prefix seems more problematic as you ne=
ed to find an IP prefix to advertise. And please let’s avoid SID conf=
lict and Prefix conflict...


[Les:] Format of the Bind=
ing TLV when the new T-bit is set is similar to the format when the M-bit i=
s set in that Prefix-SID sub-TLV is NOT present.<=
/p>

A legacy node parsing the=
 Binding TLV would be looking for the Prefix-SID sub-TLV (M-bit NOT set) an=
d would not find it. The contents of the Binding TLV would therefore be unu=
sable to a legacy node.


The correct behaviour for=
 a legacy node would be to (optionally) report an “invalid TLV”=
 and to ignore the TLV.


 <=
/i>


 


    

  1. It’s not clear to me whether the segment/S=
ID is global or local.


As per my understanding of the =
draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy use case, the area-proxy SID would be global=
 (in the external L2): “Area
 SID which will direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers.”


 


But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used =
by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indicating whether the SID is global or =
local. One could argue that if it carries a label it’s a local SID an=
d if it carries and index it’s a global SID.
 But this has not been specified.


It has also no “algorithm=
” indicating how it needs to be routed global, so at minimum would no=
t work with different routing algo/flex algo.


I’m not seeing in RFC 840=
2 or 8667 any text saying that such SID would be global hence globally rout=
ed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS SID was local, but arguably also ca=
n’t find text stating this).


 


[Les:] There is a subtle =
difference between the Prefix-SID sub-TLV as defined in
https:/=
/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#section-2.1 and the SID/Label sub-=
TLV defined in
http=
s://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#SIDLABELSUBTLV


 <=
/i>


The Prefix-SID sub-TLV ha=
s a flags field which includes V-bit/L-bit to indicate whether the variable=
 length field which follows is a 3 byte label (both bits set to 1) or a 4 b=
yte index (both bits set to 0).


 <=
/i>


The SID/Label sub-TLV has=
 no flags field. The length of the sub-TLV indicates whether the advertised=
 value has is a label (length =3D 3)  or an index (length =3D 4).=



 <=
/i>


I see no issue here.=



 <=
/i>


I would also point out th=
at the new Area Proxy SID sub-TLV (

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#section-4.3.2=
 ) does include V/L bits – similar to the Prefix-SID sub-TLV.


 <=
/i>


 


At minimum, area-proxy would ne=
ed to specify whether the SID is global and local. And if global, with whic=
h hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I would assume “0”)<=
/o:p>


 


[Les:]Just as the Mirror =
SID has no algorithm associated, neither does the Area SID.



If you feel that is an is=
sue, please expand on how you intend to use an algorithm specific Area SID.=



Thus far you seem more in=
clined to use an anycast  Prefix-SID, so I am not clear on what you th=
ink is needed here and why.


I would agree that if alg=
orithm is required it is currently not available – but it is not yet =
clear that algorithm is required.


 <=
/i>


   Les


 <=
/i>


Thanks,


Regards,


--Bruno


 


____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>


 


Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc


pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler


a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,


Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.


 


This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;


they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.


If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.


As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.

Thank you.
--_000_BY5PR11MB43375CB413060250B336BE64C14A0BY5PR11MB4337namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 4 08:17:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A5B3A07C8 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:17:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PYzdJ4PCw0HG for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7939F3A07C5 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.67]) by opfednr27.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BLdfM73gHz4xpZ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:17:31 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1596554252; bh=AqIJJPKSTIwG8bKt9ssbrx9S0wBiyVckTmEq6HbH5hM=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=Vfl3d49bMgo+BvG9UMeQ2quzZ4XFtCzTXfX8YsYptk9/fRBNOVNV/J+d5FI+LCtnl khyBY9WW+myVpIScV4Jz0b3W1yql0As35685VKRgXjWVhD169maP2xDj/cYZk9eI+G 8tqfJulWEMbMUwxnuAcj9UL49U4JBGIW+veALe1v4x2vuVTh3SG6ngokEMSgRiN6eB xaouA3W40liyFrpdktZI3nZCra5cWKAgIN0qbNDVA44oygj7t8GCLuONuPzweDcp5G nCYE/RC6nirHXCcG7cC0ZjxknctiSBZcDEDdvHHjVh5c7oiVvt4FV5jOEyMsWQ8UK6 IXgQCVX7RVFyw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.101]) by opfednr03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BLdfM68LCzDq8y; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 17:17:31 +0200 (CEST) From: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Thread-Index: AdZqV1bpaX43pBLFSuS5ho/MIT6lUQAE/tVQAADz6SA= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 15:17:30 +0000 Message-ID: <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59BOPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:17:38 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59BOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les, Please see inline. From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:50 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: RE: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Bruno - Please see inline. From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 5:45 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Hi, I may be missing something but the SR Binding SID TLV extension is not cle= ar to me. 1) It does not seem compliant with RFC 8667 Draft says that the advertisement has: T-flag set, M & A flags cleared, SID= /Label sub-TLV present, Prefix-SID sub-TLV NOT present The following extensions to the Binding TLV are defined in order to support Area SID: A new flag is defined: T-flag: The SID directs traffic to an area. (Bit 5) When T-flag is set: M and A flag MUST be clear Range and Prefix are ignored Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when the M-Flag and T-flag are both clear. The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST NOT be present when either the M-Flag or T-flag are set." Regarding the SID/Label sub-TLV Section 2.4.5 of RFC 8667 is altered to say: "It MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when either the M-Flag or T-flag is set in the Flags field of the parent TLV." https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#page-14 By definition, legacy L2 external node will support vanilla RFC 8667, whic= h says: "The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when t= he M-Flag is clear." https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-binding-tlv So it seems that the extension violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as regar= ding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV - Area proxy says "MUST NOT be present" (as T-flag is set) - RFC 8667 says "MUST be present" (as M-flag is cleared) In addition to the above, legacy node _will_ interpret the 'Range' and 'Pre= fix' fields. So there is probably a need to specify which values need to be= advertised for those legacy nodes. A priori range would be one as a single= SID is advertised. Prefix seems more problematic as you need to find an IP= prefix to advertise. And please let's avoid SID conflict and Prefix confli= ct... [Les:] Format of the Binding TLV when the new T-bit is set is similar to th= e format when the M-bit is set in that Prefix-SID sub-TLV is NOT present. A legacy node parsing the Binding TLV would be looking for the Prefix-SID s= ub-TLV (M-bit NOT set) and would not find it. The contents of the Binding T= LV would therefore be unusable to a legacy node. The correct behaviour for a legacy node would be to (optionally) report an = "invalid TLV" and to ignore the TLV. [Bruno] Clearly, there is a way to advertise the SID without violating a MUST in a = RFC. e.g. version -00 of this draft I don't see a reason to define a spec which deliberately violates another s= pec. In the best case, this would report errors forever to the network oper= ator. In the worst case, this could fall into a bug. 2) It's not clear to me whether the segment/SID is global or local. As per my understanding of the draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy use case, the= area-proxy SID would be global (in the external L2): "Area SID which will = direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers." But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indicatin= g whether the SID is global or local. One could argue that if it carries a = label it's a local SID and if it carries and index it's a global SID. But t= his has not been specified. It has also no "algorithm" indicating how it needs to be routed global, so = at minimum would not work with different routing algo/flex algo. I'm not seeing in RFC 8402 or 8667 any text saying that such SID would be g= lobal hence globally routed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS SID was lo= cal, but arguably also can't find text stating this). [Les:] There is a subtle difference between the Prefix-SID sub-TLV as defin= ed in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#section-2.1 and the SID/L= abel sub-TLV defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#SIDLABE= LSUBTLV The Prefix-SID sub-TLV has a flags field which includes V-bit/L-bit to indi= cate whether the variable length field which follows is a 3 byte label (bot= h bits set to 1) or a 4 byte index (both bits set to 0). The SID/Label sub-TLV has no flags field. The length of the sub-TLV indicat= es whether the advertised value has is a label (length =3D 3) or an index = (length =3D 4). [Bruno] Agreed so far. Do we agree that draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy uses the SID/Label sub-TLV?= We both agree that this sub-TLV has no mention of the global flag nor the = routing algo to be used. Coming back to my first question, is this segment expected to be global or = local within the (external) L2? I see no issue here. I would also point out that the new Area Proxy SID sub-TLV ( https://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#section-4.3.2 ) does includ= e V/L bits - similar to the Prefix-SID sub-TLV. [Bruno] yes but that one is only advertised within the area. I'm referring = to the L2 advertisement external to the area. At minimum, area-proxy would need to specify whether the SID is global and = local. And if global, with which hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I woul= d assume "0") [Les:]Just as the Mirror SID has no algorithm associated, neither does the = Area SID. If you feel that is an issue, please expand on how you intend to use an alg= orithm specific Area SID. [Bruno] My understanding is that the IGP Mirror SID is a local segment. For the area SID, I think it should be global, but I see no mention of this= in the draft. Let's begin with the first question: in the (external) L2, i= s the area SID a global or local segment? --Bruno Thus far you seem more inclined to use an anycast Prefix-SID, so I am not = clear on what you think is needed here and why. I would agree that if algorithm is required it is currently not available -= but it is not yet clear that algorithm is required. Les Thanks, Regards, --Bruno ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59BOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Les,

 

Please= see inline.

 

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco= .com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:50 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; lsr@ie= tf.org
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02

 

Bruno –

 

Please see inline.

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decr= aene@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 5:45 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02

 

Hi,

 

I may be missing something but the SR Binding SID TLV extension  is= not clear to me.

 

1)    &nbs= p; It does not = seem compliant with RFC 8667

 

Draft says that the advertisement has: T-flag set, M & A flags clear= ed, SID/Label sub-TLV present, Prefix-SID sub-TLV NOT present

 

The following extensions to the Binding TLV are defined in or=
der to
   support Area SID:
 
      A new flag is defined:
 
         T-flag: The =
SID directs traffic to an area.  (Bit 5)
 
         When T-flag =
is set:
 
          &=
nbsp; M and A flag MUST be clear
 
          &=
nbsp; Range and Prefix are ignored
 
      Section 2.4.4 of RFC 8667 is altered to say:
 
         "The Pr=
efix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label
         Binding TLV =
when the M-Flag and T-flag are both clear.  The
         Prefix-SID s=
ub-TLV MUST NOT be present when either the M-Flag
         or T-flag ar=
e set."
 
      Regarding the SID/Label sub-TL=
V Section 2.4.5 of RF=
C 8667 is=

      altered to say:
 
         "It MUS=
T be present in the SID/Label Binding TLV when either

         the M-Flag o=
r T-flag is set in the Flags field of the parent


         TLV.&=
quot;


 


https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#pag=
e-14


 


 


 


By definition, legacy L2 external  node will support vanilla RFC 86=
67, which says:


“The Prefix-SID sub-TLV MUST be present in the SID/Label Binding T=
LV when the M-Flag is clear.”


https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#name-sid-label-bindi=
ng-tlv


 


So it seems that the extension violates the above MUST in RFC8667, as re=
garding the Prefix-SID sub-TLV



-     =
;    
Area proxy s=
ays “MUST NOT be present” (as T-flag is set)<=
/p>


-     =
;    
RFC 8667 say=
s “MUST be present” (as M-flag is cleared)


 


 


In addition to the above, legacy node _will_ interpret the ‘=
;Range’ and ‘Prefix’ fields. So there is probably a need =
to specify which values need to be advertised for those legacy
 nodes. A priori range would be one as a single SID is advertised. Prefix s=
eems more problematic as you need to find an IP prefix to advertise. And pl=
ease let’s avoid SID conflict and Prefix conflict...


[Les:] Format of the Binding TLV when the new T-bit is set is simi=
lar to the format when the M-bit is set in that Prefix-SID sub-TLV is NOT p=
resent.


A legacy node parsing the Binding TLV would be looking for the Pre=
fix-SID sub-TLV (M-bit NOT set) and would not find it. The contents of the =
Binding TLV would therefore be unusable
 to a legacy node.


The correct behaviour for a legacy node would be to (optionally) r=
eport an “invalid TLV” and to ignore the TLV.=



[Bruno]


Clearly, there is a
 way to advertise the SID without violating a MUST in a RFC. e.g. version -=
00 of this draft


I don’t see a reason
 to define a spec which deliberately violates another spec. In the best cas=
e, this would report errors forever to the network operator. In the worst c=
ase, this could fall into a bug.


 


 



2)    &nbs=
p;
It’s n=
ot clear to me whether the segment/SID is global or local.


As per my understanding of the draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy use case, =
the area-proxy SID would be global (in the external L2): “Area
 SID which will direct traffic to any of the Inside Edge Routers.”


 


But the SID/Label Sub-TLV used by area-proxy has no flag (L-flag) indica=
ting whether the SID is global or local. One could argue that if it carries=
 a label it’s a local SID and if it carries
 and index it’s a global SID. But this has not been specified.


It has also no “algorithm” indicating how it needs to be rou=
ted global, so at minimum would not work with different routing algo/flex a=
lgo.


I’m not seeing in RFC 8402 or 8667 any text saying that such SID w=
ould be global hence globally routed in the L2 domain. (To me, this IS-IS S=
ID was local, but arguably also can’t find text
 stating this).


 


[Les:] There is a subtle difference between the Prefix-SID sub-TLV=
 as defined in
https:/=
/www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#section-2.1 and the SID/Label sub-=
TLV defined in
http=
s://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8667.html#SIDLABELSUBTLV


 


The Prefix-SID sub-TLV has a flags field which includes V-bit/L-bi=
t to indicate whether the variable length field which follows is a 3 byte l=
abel (both bits set to 1) or a 4 byte
 index (both bits set to 0).


 


The SID/Label sub-TLV has no flags field. The length of the sub-TL=
V indicates whether the advertised value has is a label (length =3D 3) &nbs=
p;or an index (length =3D 4).


 


[Bruno] Agreed so far.


Do we agree that draft-=
ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy
 uses the SID/Label sub-TLV? We both agree that this sub-TLV has no mention=
 of the global flag nor the routing
algo to be used.


Coming back to my first
 question, is this segment expected to be global or local within the (exter=
nal) L2?


I see no issue here.


 


I would also point out that the new Area Proxy SID sub-TLV (

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02#section-4.3.2=
 ) does include V/L bits – similar to the Prefix-SID sub-TLV.


[Bruno] yes but that
 one is only advertised within the area. I’m referring to the L2 adve=
rtisement external to the area.


 


 


At minimum, area-proxy would need to specify whether the SID is global a=
nd local. And if global, with which hard coded algorithm it is routed. (I w=
ould assume “0”)


 


[Les:]Just as the Mirror SID has no algorithm associated, neither =
does the Area SID.



If you feel that is an issue, please expand on how you intend to u=
se an algorithm specific Area SID.


[Bruno]


My understanding is
 that the IGP Mirror SID is a local segment.


For the area SID, I
 think it should be global, but I see no mention of this in the draft. Let&=
#8217;s begin with the first question: in the (external) L2, is the area SI=
D a global or local segment?


 


--Bruno


Thus far you seem more inclined to use an anycast  Prefix-SID=
, so I am not clear on what you think is needed here and why.


I would agree that if algorithm is required it is currently not av=
ailable – but it is not yet clear that algorithm is required.


 


   Les


 


Thanks,


Regards,


--Bruno


 


______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________


 


Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc


pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler


a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,


Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.


 


This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;


they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
o:p>


If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.


As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.


Thank you.


______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59BOPEXCAUBM43corp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 4 08:25:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD643A0A55 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nvvnQcspQOzu for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F1E63A0A7B for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id r11so12601015pfl.11 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=dkae0Pg8k1htWcxY/XNySpJjzqHeGqK5U3baOOXR/tw=; b=lmE4l/wyX3e26+pKL2GSFuNhBng+o6cQYV9l0p7kYvc4bB1Lqq9y20z6Dizr2jlzyp lk3Ie9bdXhW4r7hZrI+4p1U5MiOElCFgLrPe0xt4FIcRW/+LMYKW/+KLboZMmVTO396p VeinzaxUQR4J1dy0ZE5867j99Kc4A0Qvp0vXju5Fn06szLdREKXeI2ngTAS6CP+m3CFw IxCqfk5R3Zathi5bSooNz1fNHOS9Au/t2sXGFRwMZKosz+UHwlCMcVQpV++E1UlDJoSG rYHKNdHGPIMvDApDLwNUEuKRM/kWbNjui0xQ7fXg8zXbOwOSpgOhxmKYX2jXgl0F3ip5 f5SQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=dkae0Pg8k1htWcxY/XNySpJjzqHeGqK5U3baOOXR/tw=; b=uVawOPWh0je4C8+TrZygs1EvL+Pb56kdmwBpMXl6VOnw39fniwfWduAXEMWUAitKSO L5WIru44ALLPB117bcq+juVCcUS0SSXfLrViw/WnifX4j8firSKsGxy5hiH1dT+z+8Py uF4BdSAYA/6ig2m7UjNv940ka+WhwYJuRRdjcOYTtI/BLdssKOFIlGlZ+2k02YgSi1LM j2Bt6R9QeTzDHbhZJI6xloVr01GeJ/o6ss6pN8r0PwVvxd6W3DTayt5o5lRbCUmWosFQ zj5UJuuRyshv5Feex9rfytcKxrB3+1w853BHAYC1pX8YAARmT3Wg3I/Y7s6BFdbZcEHt hUyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ICCmjxs/8JLG8/EJYc2MDmF6KLFoG6iCpoyRPwa59LE/KsewM ASqt96RUM/m2evFrmbGBJ9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyqGMFZFYFjpELPOTU5uyCSSUgx2itkEjamnUCsR5XrM+ZsJIzddoCAIL3P5kmtKLM0UXmWfQ== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9f10:: with SMTP id g16mr10331873pfr.148.1596554747695; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.202] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x10sm21754133pgp.47.2020.08.04.08.25.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:25:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li Message-Id: <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_35F2A14A-7DBF-4F7A-B3E9-2181027138DC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:25:45 -0700 In-Reply-To: <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Cc: Les Ginsberg , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Bruno Decraene References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:25:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_35F2A14A-7DBF-4F7A-B3E9-2181027138DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Bruno, >=20 > [Bruno] Agreed so far. > Do we agree that draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy uses the SID/Label = sub-TLV? We both agree that this sub-TLV has no mention of the global = flag nor the routing algoto be used. So far, we do NOT have agreement on that. Your argument yesterday = (backed by Robert) is pretty compelling: go ahead and assign a prefix = and now the Area SID may be advertised as a Node SID in the Proxy LSP. = If we take that direction, this discussion is moot. Tony --Apple-Mail=_35F2A14A-7DBF-4F7A-B3E9-2181027138DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Bruno,



[Bruno] Agreed so far.
Do we agree that draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy uses the SID/Label sub-TLV? We = both agree that this sub-TLV has no mention of the global flag nor the = routing algoto be = used.


So far, we do NOT have = agreement on that.  Your argument yesterday (backed by Robert) is = pretty compelling: go ahead and assign a prefix and now the Area SID may = be advertised as a Node SID in the Proxy LSP. If we take that direction, = this discussion is moot.

Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_35F2A14A-7DBF-4F7A-B3E9-2181027138DC-- From nobody Tue Aug 4 20:25:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A55A3A078C for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 20:25:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o4x0skZey8Uc for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 20:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68B403A0746 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 2020 20:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 20FA446D16; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:25:03 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Robert Raszuk'" , "'Aijun Wang'" Cc: "'Peter Psenak'" , "'Huzhibo'" , "'lsr'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Xiaoyaqun'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:24:59 +0800 Message-ID: <059e01d66ad7$ffda2e50$ff8e8af0$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_059F_01D66B1B.0E00A2A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: zh-cn Thread-Index: AQKwsgRl8uq4ZZAYYiwm8gqgwsmPuwLfhjxOAXwBCl+nUWjEEA== X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUpXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZQ0sYHkhKQxhCGEsaVkpOQk1OQkxCS0hOT0xVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVKS0tZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6ODY6HDo6Iz8tLVY6NC8vECg# DSFPFClVSlVKTkJNTkJMQktPS0xIVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUpNQkhCNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a73bca6a0369865kuuu20fa446d16 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 03:25:15 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_059F_01D66B1B.0E00A2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Robert: =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 PM To: Aijun Wang Cc: Peter Psenak ; Huzhibo = ; Aijun Wang ; lsr = ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Xiaoyaqun = Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt =20 [WAJ] Such information is for underlay link state and should be flooded = via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP summary behavior and should be = solved by itself? =20 Well if we look at this problem from a distance while on surface it = seems like an IGP issue (not to mention some which use BGP as IGP :) IMO = it is only hurting when you have some service overlay on top utilizing = the IGP.=20 [WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no service = overlay running over IGP. Scenarios described in = = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03#section-3 are not = tightly coupled with the overlay service. =20 So typically today if I am running any service with BGP I do count on = BGP to remove routes which are no longer reachable. IGP just tells me = how to get to the next hop, which direction to go and not if the = endpoint (service CPE or PE connected to given CE) is up or down.=20 =20 So today smart BGP implementations in good network design can use RD = based withdraws to very fast (milliseconds) remove the affected service = routes. When I said should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this is = good enough to quickly remove service routes. If not maybe we should = send such affected next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes = with such next hop as failing PE.=20 =20 Bottom line if you think the problem is IGP then I think Acee's comments = apply.=20 [WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet? =20 Last - See today you are bringing the case to signal transition to DOWN = ... but for some people and applications it may be not enough. In fact = UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. But if you have two ABRs and one will due = to topology changes in its area suddenly will be forced to reach atomic = destination covered by summary over much higher metric path that for = applications running above may be much more severe case and not = acceptable one too.=20 [WAJ] Or else, the application traffic will be broken. =20 And BGP will not remove service routes nor modify best path in any way = as summary is masking the real metric to some next hops. So while in the = network you may have alternate better native transit paths with a lot of = free capacity if you only switch to a different bgp next hop (not = talking about any TE at all) you are stuck offering much worse service = to your customers.=20 [WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected prefix via the ABR, = then this ABR will not send the PUA information. =20 Those cases are starting to be solved by performance routing both at the = service itself or at BGP nh levels. Should IGP assist here ... I am not = sure. [WAJ] when node become down, it can only depend on other nodes within = the same IGP to send such unreachability information. IGP can certainly = help here J =20 =20 Many thx, R. ------=_NextPart_000_059F_01D66B1B.0E00A2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

H= i, Robert:

<= o:p> 

From:<= /b> = lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 = PM
To: Aijun Wang = <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: Peter Psenak = <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Huzhibo = <huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun Wang = <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem = (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Xiaoyaqun = <xiaoyaqun@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version = Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt

 

[WAJ] Such information is for underlay link state and = should be flooded via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP summary = behavior and should be solved by = itself?

 

Well if we look at this problem from a distance while on = surface it seems like an IGP issue (not to mention some which use BGP as = IGP :) IMO it is only hurting when you have some service overlay on top = utilizing the IGP. 

[= WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no service = overlay running over IGP. =C2=A0Scenarios described in draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03#= section-3 are not tightly coupled with the overlay = service.

<= o:p> 

So typically today if I am running any service with BGP I = do count on BGP to remove routes which are no longer reachable. IGP just = tells me how to get to the next hop, which direction to go and not if = the endpoint (service CPE or PE connected to given CE) is up or = down. 

 

So today smart BGP implementations in = good network design can use RD based withdraws to very fast = (milliseconds) remove the affected service routes. When I said = should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this is good enough = to quickly remove service routes. If not maybe we should send = such affected next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes with = such next hop as failing PE. 

 

Bottom line if you think the problem is IGP then I think = Acee's comments apply. 

[= WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet?<= o:p>

 

Last - See today you are bringing the case to signal = transition to DOWN ... but for some people and applications it may be = not enough. In fact UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. But if you have two = ABRs and one will due to topology changes in its area suddenly will be = forced to reach atomic destination covered by summary over much higher = metric path that for applications running above may be much more severe = case and not acceptable one too. 

[= WAJ] Or else, the application traffic will be = broken.<= o:p>

 

And BGP will not remove service routes nor modify best path = in any way as summary is masking the real metric to some next hops. So = while in the network you may have alternate better native transit paths = with a lot of free capacity if you only switch to a different bgp next = hop (not talking about any TE at all) you are stuck offering much worse = service to your customers. 

[= WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected prefix via the ABR, = then this ABR will not send the PUA information.<= o:p>

 

Those cases are starting to be solved by performance = routing both at the service itself or at BGP nh levels. Should IGP = assist here ... I am not sure.

[= WAJ] when node become down, it can only depend on other nodes within the = same IGP to send such unreachability information. IGP can certainly help = here J<= o:p>

 

 

Many thx,

R.

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boundary="Apple-Mail=_FDF734B2-42C5-477B-8DB0-AFD50C0FFEBF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:08:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:08:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FDF734B2-42C5-477B-8DB0-AFD50C0FFEBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, > a)Advertise the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D in the Area Proxy TLV = =E2=80=93 much as we do a router-id today in the Router-ID TLV. This would make the Area Prefix mandatory for Area Proxy, which is not = desired. We would prefer it to remain optional and thus part of the = Area SID sub-TLV. > b)The remaining info (reachability and SID) can then be provided using = existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93 no need for new = sub-TLV for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates any potential = issues if the SID advertised by =E2=80=9CArea SID sub-TLV=E2=80=9D were = to differ from the SID advertised in Prefix Reachability for the same = prefix. As we discussed privately, we view this as a non-issue. The Area Leader = is the one advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV and the Proxy LSP. If = there=E2=80=99s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a coding error. There is = a single source of truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s config) and we = cannot protect against every possible coding error. Reconciling the = prefix with a separate advertisement has a non-trivial chance of being = broken too, and IMHO, much larger. > There then remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea = Prefix=E2=80=9D is anycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or = is it unique to whomever gets elected Area Leader? Does it matter? We have no clear semantics for this prefix. A difference = that makes no difference is no difference. Tony --Apple-Mail=_FDF734B2-42C5-477B-8DB0-AFD50C0FFEBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Les,


a)Advertise = the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D in the Area Proxy TLV =E2=80=93 much = as we do a router-id today in the Router-ID = TLV.

This would make the = Area Prefix mandatory for Area Proxy, which is not desired.  We = would prefer it to remain optional and thus part of the Area SID = sub-TLV.


b)The remaining info (reachability and SID) can = then be provided using existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93= no need for new sub-TLV for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates = any potential issues if the SID advertised by =E2=80=9CArea SID = sub-TLV=E2=80=9D were to differ from the SID advertised in Prefix = Reachability for the same = prefix.


As we discussed = privately, we view this as a non-issue.  The Area Leader is the one = advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV and the Proxy LSP. If there=E2=80=99= s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a coding error. There is a single = source of truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s config) and we cannot protect = against every possible coding error.  Reconciling the prefix with a = separate advertisement has a non-trivial chance of being broken too, and = IMHO, much larger.


 There then remains the question as to whether the = =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D is anycast or unicast i.e., is it common = to all IERs or is it unique to whomever gets elected Area = Leader?


Does it matter? We have = no clear semantics for this prefix. A difference that makes no = difference is no difference.

Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_FDF734B2-42C5-477B-8DB0-AFD50C0FFEBF-- From nobody Wed Aug 5 13:17:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2D03A0F3A; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:17:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.12.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 13:17:39 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 20:17:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Area Proxy for IS-IS Authors : Tony Li Sarah Chen Vivek Ilangovan Gyan S. Mishra Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2020-08-05 Abstract: Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already built into them. However, when lower levels are used for transit, they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to scale issues. To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit, yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into level 2. Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby enabling greater scale. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 5 14:22:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935DC3A0F9F for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:22:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sIcWxeE3T685 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-xa30.google.com (mail-vk1-xa30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83C503A0FDB for ; Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-xa30.google.com with SMTP id r197so5657268vkf.13 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jT9gZ4h/8nozr4Oxwz5UlYlLz/IZBNavvicyZrR8uUI=; b=VNakH/jzPlRokS0mBtu0Jx+dIe8tTn1dbAHRVYmfzYr00qEL3HzG+7qEP9NntqfRvq qnJvxUwcqWr7N3nm59PTBuYTECQXwF4QqB49s5AuJuRVhd6iLM1V2qHBda6HnuaIIrwl vYv36xY3UludMw86jLmP6UX4qYdZdUSTSOYYQ3WzY1J3fdhVZfFinIkEhnmJ7hn1VhXP h3eV8++wfPL8V/E1xaV5+8xA0PB3mnrxGlmUypdh/ftGGfJaRHAeSOXWAlCHy6V1UyJh Gnvn1gLkZU0Xg9Ca8/j0hKXPUoDtqu86lS17A7CURWIyb2jYm/1ACaiVo+ok5dLEE0mr R/aQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jT9gZ4h/8nozr4Oxwz5UlYlLz/IZBNavvicyZrR8uUI=; b=KkUZyVkXydNBi9fZ8bsXDhjuZNwMZJ9K6o1QYqPxXgLS1h9bqIrI/X/lmfWVvF0kWx ZpPeJQgV8z14FnSShsFeCz5RaxUm0e9Zazl05f8JBkHBth2JXVZvuT140QfCSs1dXsXe 6sQpUdEn/Xl7G8nu1Zz7FZSmoIqjvnkQA5qZR315RxnX19yLc/6KzRr2/yDeKKxMi01o cKalB99UCV7B5fv3ict/WzRJlIKRInByYCH6dPeiW8YmbQel0FdMq4cltDo4jFjGHpu6 /tDHeEec101m8bdHScqL3tkbH53Z7LDeh5rqgyptCC+B7TL7haI+K5Eo3AGGaCUH1d1m SBZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533aOII5J7BYwketKMa4AkL0XZqvuosj0IpnT7T3OgCiILZT1Ptk SOpLCYPbcJ0GKsw+WRc5VYIB+qRtGCiomSHvlXA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzSZ1kRN+BDBqJgDZJJDP9O9qyMT8mx5KzbEzT9Ou1qVGx5HHN5OVG5xzSWDJQCDbXjtL3MU/BMwFzBorNTCtA= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:c745:: with SMTP id x66mr4244334vkf.82.1596662562503; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 17:22:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , Les Ginsberg , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dd3ea205ac27f80f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:22:46 -0000 --000000000000dd3ea205ac27f80f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruno >From an operators perspective your creative idea of using the existing SR machinery using the node SID to advertise the Area SID in the Proxy LSP is very attractive to be able to support the feature immediately without requiring a feature upgrade to support. This idea really helps the area proxy concept come to fruition without impacting operations. Thanks Gyan On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08 PM Tony Li wrote: > > Les, > > > *a)Advertise the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D in the Area Proxy TLV =E2= =80=93 much as we do a > router-id today in the Router-ID TLV.* > > > > This would make the Area Prefix mandatory for Area Proxy, which is not > desired. We would prefer it to remain optional and thus part of the Area > SID sub-TLV. > > > *b)The remaining info (reachability and SID) can then be provided using > existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93 no need for new sub= -TLV for > =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates any potential issues if the S= ID advertised by > =E2=80=9CArea SID sub-TLV=E2=80=9D were to differ from the SID advertised= in Prefix > Reachability for the same prefix.* > > > > As we discussed privately, we view this as a non-issue. The Area Leader > is the one advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV and the Proxy LSP. If > there=E2=80=99s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a coding error. There is = a single source of > truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s config) and we cannot protect against ev= ery > possible coding error. Reconciling the prefix with a separate > advertisement has a non-trivial chance of being broken too, and IMHO, muc= h > larger. > > > *There then remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix= =E2=80=9D is > anycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or is it unique to > whomever gets elected Area Leader?* > > > > Does it matter? We have no clear semantics for this prefix. A difference > that makes no difference is no difference. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000dd3ea205ac27f80f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruno=C2=A0

From an operators perspective your creative = =C2=A0idea of using the existing SR machinery using the node SID to adverti= se the Area SID in the Proxy LSP is very attractive to be able to support t= he feature immediately without requiring a feature upgrade to support. =C2= =A0

This idea really hel= ps the area proxy concept =C2=A0come to fruition without impacting operatio= ns.

Thanks=C2=A0

Gyan

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 4:08= PM Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.= com> wrote:

Les,

<= /div>

a)Advertise the =E2=80=9CArea Pre= fix=E2=80=9D in the Area Proxy TLV =E2=80=93 much as we do a router-id toda= y in the Router-ID TLV.


This would make the Area Pref= ix mandatory for Area Proxy, which is not desired.=C2=A0 We would prefer it= to remain optional and thus part of the Area SID sub-TLV.


b)The remaining info (reachability and SID) can then be = provided using existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93 no nee= d for new sub-TLV for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates any poten= tial issues if the SID advertised by =E2=80=9CArea SID sub-TLV=E2=80=9D wer= e to differ from the SID advertised in Prefix Reachability for the same pre= fix.

As we discussed privately, we view this as a non-issu= e.=C2=A0 The Area Leader is the one advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV a= nd the Proxy LSP. If there=E2=80=99s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a codi= ng error. There is a single source of truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s conf= ig) and we cannot protect against every possible coding error.=C2=A0 Reconc= iling the prefix with a separate advertisement has a non-trivial chance of = being broken too, and IMHO, much larger.


=C2=A0There then= remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D is an= ycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or is it unique to whomever= gets elected Area Leader?


Does it matter? We have no clear sema= ntics for this prefix. A difference that makes no difference is no differen= ce.

Tony

___________________= ____________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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boundary="Apple-Mail=_A7170E10-E0CA-4200-B00B-38324499E440" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:25:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2020 23:25:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A7170E10-E0CA-4200-B00B-38324499E440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, > This would make the Area Prefix mandatory for Area Proxy, which is not = desired. We would prefer it to remain optional and thus part of the = Area SID sub-TLV. > =20 > [Les2:] You can advertise the Area Prefix in an optional sub-TLV =E2=80=93= just as you did with the Area SID. That is what I expected you would = do. Good. I=E2=80=99ve just submitted -03, which does exactly that. Please = review. Note that tools.ietf.org appears to be = down at this instant. (!!!!??!?!?!) > b)The remaining info (reachability and SID) can then be provided using = existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93 no need for new = sub-TLV for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates any potential = issues if the SID advertised by =E2=80=9CArea SID sub-TLV=E2=80=9D were = to differ from the SID advertised in Prefix Reachability for the same = prefix. > =20 > =20 > As we discussed privately, we view this as a non-issue. The Area = Leader is the one advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV and the Proxy = LSP. If there=E2=80=99s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a coding error. = There is a single source of truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s config) and = we cannot protect against every possible coding error. Reconciling the = prefix with a separate advertisement has a non-trivial chance of being = broken too, and IMHO, much larger. > =20 > [Les2:] You can define the advertisements in a way which reduces the = possibility of ambiguity =E2=80=93 which seems like a good thing to me. > And rest assured that you will be asked by someone to define the = expected behavior when there is an inconsistency. =F0=9F=98=8A Same question: same answer. :-) > Since prefix SID and Prefix reachability are directly related in = forwarding, it makes far more sense to me to have those two together. > If you find correlating information in two different TLVs too = challenging, you could opt for a new bit in the prefix attributes = sub-TLV to identify a prefix as an =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D. Then = you would not need any additional info advertised in the Area Proxy TLV = at all. We prefer to keep it in the Area Proxy TLV so that its semantics are = crystal clear. > There then remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea = Prefix=E2=80=9D is anycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or = is it unique to whomever gets elected Area Leader? > =20 > Does it matter? We have no clear semantics for this prefix. A = difference that makes no difference is no difference. > =20 > [Les:] This question needs to be directed at those who prefer the Area = Prefix approach. It matters as it impacts configuration and = advertisement semantics. An anycast prefix is NOT a Node Prefix. > And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into the area. > =20 How so? Traffic will be directed to the SID value (modulo PHP).=20 Tony --Apple-Mail=_A7170E10-E0CA-4200-B00B-38324499E440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Les,



Since = prefix SID and Prefix reachability are directly related in forwarding, = it makes far more sense to me to have those two together.
If you find correlating information in two = different TLVs too challenging, you could opt for a new bit in the = prefix attributes sub-TLV to identify a prefix as an =E2=80=9CArea = Prefix=E2=80=9D. Then you would not need any additional info advertised = in the Area Proxy TLV at = all.


We prefer to keep it in the = Area Proxy TLV so that its semantics are crystal clear.

 There = then remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D = is anycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or is it unique to = whomever gets elected Area Leader?
  
Does it matter? We have no = clear semantics for this prefix. A difference that makes no difference = is no difference.
 
[Les:] This = question needs to be directed at those who prefer the Area Prefix = approach. It matters as it impacts configuration and advertisement = semantics. An anycast prefix is NOT a Node Prefix.
And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into = the area.
 



b)The = remaining info (reachability and SID) can then be provided using = existing Prefix Reachability advertisements =E2=80=93 no need for new = sub-TLV for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D. This eliminates any potential = issues if the SID advertised by =E2=80=9CArea SID sub-TLV=E2=80=9D were = to differ from the SID advertised in Prefix Reachability for the same = prefix.
 
 
As we discussed privately, we view this as a non-issue. =  The Area Leader is the one advertising both the Area SID sub-TLV = and the Proxy LSP. If there=E2=80=99s a coding error, there=E2=80=99s a = coding error. There is a single source of truth (the Area Leader=E2=80=99s= config) and we cannot protect against every possible coding error. =  Reconciling the prefix with a separate advertisement has a = non-trivial chance of being broken too, and IMHO, much larger.
 
[Les2:] You can define the = advertisements in a way which reduces the possibility of ambiguity =E2=80=93= which seems like a good thing to me.
And rest assured that you will be asked by = someone to define the expected behavior when there is an = inconsistency. =F0=9F=98=8A


Same question: same answer. = :-)

How so? =  Traffic will be directed to the SID value (modulo = PHP). 

Tony

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ABdhPJy3X0wv8Oplxx7pcL/hh6USV3WoFvBo8hZsBcdhkUOXikcAOnzBmVyCee2pBIC7jTaeGEi1l8T0JrpUSzJ/2+A= X-Received: by 2002:ac5:c889:: with SMTP id n9mr5871563vkl.3.1596703438686; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 01:43:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <059e01d66ad7$ffda2e50$ff8e8af0$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: <059e01d66ad7$ffda2e50$ff8e8af0$@tsinghua.org.cn> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 04:43:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aijun Wang Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Aijun Wang , Huzhibo , Peter Psenak , Robert Raszuk , Xiaoyaqun , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000464caa05ac317daa" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 08:44:04 -0000 --000000000000464caa05ac317daa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Aijun and authors I am catching up with this thread after reading through this draft. I understand the concept that we are trying to send a PUA advertisement which sounds similar to Rift Negative Disaggregation prefix now with a null setting when a longer match component prefix that is part of a summary range is down to detect prefix down conditions with longer match component prefixes that are part of a summary. Basically how summarization works with both OSPF and ISIS is that at minimum a single longer match within the defined IA summary range must exist for the IA summary to be sent. So the summary is sent conditionally similar to a BGP conditional advertisement or even a ospf default originate which requires a default in the RIB to exist before the advertisement is sent. A good example of non conditional analogy with BGP if you have a null0 static for a summary for an exact match BGP advertisement the prefix is always advertised no matter what even if no component prefixes exist. This can result in black hole routing. BGP has conditional feature to conditionally advertisement based on existence of a route advertisement of downstream neighbor in the BGP RIB. So with ospf and Isis the summary is in fact conditional similar to a BGP conditional advertisement and in the example given in the draft in section 3.1 when node T2 is down and pt2 becomes unreachable and let=E2=80=99s say that prefix is 1.1.1.1/32 and the= summary is 1.1.1.0/30 and no other component prefix exists within the summary range the prefix will not get adversed. So there will not be any black hole. The summary represents all prefixes within the range that would be suppressed with the summary when advertised into the backbone area. However only at a minimum one prefix must exist in the range for the summary to be generated. That is done by design as the summary represents all prefixes within the range. So let=E2=80=99s say there are a 100 prefix= es and let=E2=80=99s say a few devices are down and so now only 5 prefixes exist w= ithin the range. By design it is OK for router to generate the summary for the 5 prefixes it is representing and that will not cause any routing loop or black hole. I am trying to understand wage gap exists and what we are trying to solve related to summarization in the context of IPv6. Both IPv4 and IPV6 summarization operates the similarly as far as the requirement of at minimum a single component route within the summary range must exist as a condition to be present in the RIB before the summary can be advertised. Kind Regards Gyan On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:25 PM Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, Robert: > > > > *From:* lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of = *Robert > Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 PM > *To:* Aijun Wang > *Cc:* Peter Psenak ; Huzhibo < > huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun Wang ; lsr < > lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Xiaoyaqun < > xiaoyaqun@huawei.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for > draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt > > > > [WAJ] Such information is for underlay link state and should be flooded > via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP summary behavior and should be > solved by itself? > > > > Well if we look at this problem from a distance while on surface it seems > like an IGP issue (not to mention some which use BGP as IGP :) IMO it is > only hurting when you have some service overlay on top utilizing the IGP. > > *[WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no service > overlay running over IGP. Scenarios described in > draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03#section-3 > > are not tightly coupled with the overlay service.* > > > > So typically today if I am running any service with BGP I do count on BGP > to remove routes which are no longer reachable. IGP just tells me how to > get to the next hop, which direction to go and not if the endpoint (servi= ce > CPE or PE connected to given CE) is up or down. > > > > So today smart BGP implementations in good network design can use RD base= d > withdraws to very fast (milliseconds) remove the affected service routes. > When I said should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this is good enou= gh > to quickly remove service routes. If not maybe we should send such affect= ed > next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes with such next hop a= s > failing PE. > > > > Bottom line if you think the problem is IGP then I think Acee's comments > apply. > > *[WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet?* > > > > Last - See today you are bringing the case to signal transition to DOWN > ... but for some people and applications it may be not enough. In fact > UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. But if you have two ABRs and one will due t= o > topology changes in its area suddenly will be forced to reach atomic > destination covered by summary over much higher metric path that for > applications running above may be much more severe case and not acceptabl= e > one too. > > *[WAJ] Or else, the application traffic will be broken.* > > > > And BGP will not remove service routes nor modify best path in any way as > summary is masking the real metric to some next hops. So while in the > network you may have alternate better native transit paths with a lot of > free capacity if you only switch to a different bgp next hop (not talking > about any TE at all) you are stuck offering much worse service to your > customers. > > *[WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected prefix via the ABR, > then this ABR will not send the PUA information.* > > > > Those cases are starting to be solved by performance routing both at the > service itself or at BGP nh levels. Should IGP assist here ... I am not > sure. > > *[WAJ] when node become down, it can only depend on other nodes within th= e > same IGP to send such unreachability information. IGP can certainly help > here **J* > > > > > > Many thx, > > R. > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000464caa05ac317daa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Aijun and authors
I am catching up with this thread after reading t= hrough this draft.

I und= erstand the concept that we are trying to send a PUA advertisement which so= unds similar to Rift Negative Disaggregation prefix now with a =C2=A0null s= etting when a longer match component prefix that is part of a summary range= is down to detect prefix down conditions with longer match component prefi= xes that are part of a summary. =C2=A0

Basically how summarization works with both OSPF and ISIS is= that at minimum a single longer match within the defined IA summary range = must exist for the IA summary to be sent.=C2=A0 So the summary is sent cond= itionally similar to a BGP conditional advertisement or even a ospf default= originate which requires a default in the RIB to exist before the advertis= ement is sent.=C2=A0 A good example of non conditional analogy with BGP if = you have a null0 static for a summary for an exact match BGP advertisement = the prefix is always advertised no matter what even if no component prefixe= s exist.=C2=A0 This can result in black hole routing. BGP has conditional f= eature to conditionally advertisement based on existence of a route adverti= sement of downstream neighbor in the BGP RIB.=C2=A0 So with ospf and Isis t= he summary is in fact conditional similar to a BGP conditional advertisemen= t and in the example given in the draft in section 3.1 when node T2 is down= and pt2 becomes unreachable and let=E2=80=99s say that prefix is 1.1.1.1/32 and the summary is 1.1.1.0/30 and no other component prefix exists within the = summary range the prefix will not get adversed.=C2=A0 So there will not be = any black hole. =C2=A0

T= he summary represents all prefixes within the range that would be suppresse= d with the summary when advertised into the backbone area.=C2=A0 However on= ly at a minimum one prefix must exist in the range for the summary to be ge= nerated.=C2=A0 That is done by design as the summary represents all prefixe= s within the range.=C2=A0 So let=E2=80=99s say there are a 100 prefixes and= let=E2=80=99s say a few devices are down and so now only 5 prefixes exist = within the range.=C2=A0 By design it is OK for router to generate the summa= ry for the 5 prefixes it is representing and that will not cause any routin= g loop or black hole.

I am trying to understand wage gap exists and wha= t we are trying to solve related to summarization in the context of IPv6.= =C2=A0 Both IPv4 and IPV6 summarization operates the similarly as far as th= e requirement of at minimum a single component route within the summary ran= ge must exist =C2=A0as a condition to be present in the RIB before the summ= ary can be advertised.

K= ind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:25 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> wrote:

Hi, Robert:

=C2=A0

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [= mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Xi= aoyaqun <xiaoyaqun@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Not= ification for draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt

<= span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0

[WAJ] Such information is for underlay link state and should = be flooded via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP summary behavior and shou= ld be solved by itself?

<= u>=C2=A0

Well if we look at this problem from a= distance while on surface it seems like an IGP issue (not to mention some = which use BGP as IGP :) IMO it is only hurting when you have some service o= verlay on top utilizing the IGP.=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt">[WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no servic= e overlay running over IGP.=C2=A0 Scenarios described in draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-ann= oucement-03#section-3 are not tightly coupled with the overl= ay service.

=C2=A0<= /u>

= So typically today if I am running any service with BG= P I do count on BGP to remove routes which are no longer reachable. IGP jus= t tells me how to get to the next hop, which direction to go and not if the= endpoint (service CPE or PE connected to given CE) is up or down.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

So today= smart BGP implementations in good=C2=A0network=C2=A0design can use RD base= d withdraws to very fast (milliseconds) remove=C2=A0the affected service ro= utes. When I said should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this=C2=A0is = good enough to=C2=A0quickly=C2=A0remove service routes. If not maybe we sho= uld send such affected next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes= with such next hop as failing PE.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Bottom line if you think the problem is = IGP then I think Acee's comments apply.=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt">[WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet?

=C2=A0

Last - See today you are bringing the case to signal transitio= n to DOWN ... but for some people and applications it may be not enough. In= fact UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. But if you have two ABRs and one will d= ue to topology changes in its area suddenly will be forced to reach atomic = destination covered by summary over much higher metric path that for applic= ations running above may be much more severe case and not acceptable one to= o.=C2=A0

[WAJ] Or else, the application tra= ffic will be broken.

=C2=A0

And BGP will= not remove service routes nor modify best path in any way as summary is ma= sking the real metric to some next hops. So while in the network you may ha= ve alternate better native transit paths with a lot of free capacity if you= only switch to a different bgp next hop (not talking about any TE at all) = you are stuck offering much worse service to your customers.=C2=A0

[WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected = prefix via the ABR, then this ABR will not send the PUA information.=

<= div>

= =C2=A0

Those cases are starting to be solved= by performance routing both at the service itself or at BGP nh levels. Sho= uld IGP assist here ... I am not sure.=

[WAJ] when node become down, it can o= nly depend on other nodes within the same IGP to send such unreachability i= nformation. IGP can certainly help here J

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Many thx,

R.

_______________________________________= ________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--
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Thu, 6 Aug 2020 16:31:24 +0000 From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo Thread-Index: AdZsDtL1t704xo86SsWDM7yXDKVCjQ== Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 16:31:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [2a02:a03f:4eee:3800:e16d:f73c:cd83:ffd4] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d0dda397-4764-4701-624f-08d83a26292f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM4PR07MB3236: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vv0NG/bFrquz0IoqtN/rH4lFSNWz8xpySQmSxMkxAW+Wz3U7QrY7pGsn6GshRSMO+9GbkYmfgoJIIks6MJSK8B3ZTkK4SfoLFb9iLVxRUhvQFfVhQwaJLnP8qvhoZEKYJ+92g44QHh+fOVU/zrfaqEt7vp8kdwA7/Vm+vvshQWUFFpO4Tr2TG9+UH5T7zrpPsKmb1ekCbwsOeaiDhiMmyj4IvAQQCdz3mZtz5MgE8dc1wEyntrqYqwz+Yf2GOJwnRQ+PZOMuqIEDfluSYx16dFqr3IscgmmSzAlJ7zukPHs/pJAbVqf9reTLcYEM/dAg0PMMbg0CJEUv4J4CufJ4PA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_AM0PR07MB6386B2403358CE285F24C423E0480AM0PR07MB6386eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM0PR07MB6386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d0dda397-4764-4701-624f-08d83a26292f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Aug 2020 16:31:24.6317 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: N37637mrveCBFt46XXoFLxG9h3MJ22RBGp/d1DJzIKwEaGW/9KYOwddQAEdOtoVolziCWc/goz0GZmoPkGk6Xkdl2Nt1jhuvnDpJy2jjn+k= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR07MB3236 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:31:37 -0000 --_000_AM0PR07MB6386B2403358CE285F24C423E0480AM0PR07MB6386eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Authors, All, My understanding is that for new LSR applications we should select either "= ASLA encoding" or select "legacy encoding" for all Link attributes. Not a mixture of both. There is a clear long term technology benefit of usi= ng all ASLA encoding. In draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08 "Section 11: Advertisement of Link Attribute= s for Flex-Algorithm" we find that use of ASLA is mandated " Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. " This is a 'normative' instruction that link attributes MUST use ASLA encodi= ng. Hence link attributes like (e)ag, te-metric and delay MUST be ASLA encoded. Is that correct understanding? If yes, it is odd that some attributes are new ASLA and some other are non-= future proof 'LEGACY' encodings * Example#1: section 5.1 "ISIS Flexible Algorithm Definition Sub-TLV" a= nd section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" point towards legac= y encodings RFC7810 and RFC5305 (idnit RFC7810 is obsoleted by RFC8570). * Example#2: section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" the n= ormative references are missing Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should update the link attribute encoding references t= o reflect ASLA encoding as specified in section 11. The text referencing legacy encodings should be removed G/ --_000_AM0PR07MB6386B2403358CE285F24C423E0480AM0PR07MB6386eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Authors, All,

 

My understanding is that for new LSR applications we= should select either “ASLA encoding” or select “legacy e= ncoding” for all Link attributes.

Not a mixture of both. There is a clear long term te= chnology benefit of using all ASLA encoding.

 

In draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08 “Section 11: Ad= vertisement of Link Attributes for Flex-Algorithm” we find that use o= f ASLA is mandated

 

“

  Link attribute advertisements that are to be = used during Flex-

   Algorithm calculation MUST use the Appl= ication Specific Link

   Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined= in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or

   [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse].

“

 

This is a ‘normative’ instruction that l= ink attributes MUST use ASLA encoding.

Hence link attributes like (e)ag, te-metric and dela= y MUST be ASLA encoded.

 

Is that correct understanding?

 

If yes, it is odd that some attributes are new ASLA = and some other are non-future proof ‘LEGACY’ encodings

  • Example#1: section 5.1 “ISIS Flexible Algorithm Definition Sub-= TLV” and section 5.2 “OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV= 221; point towards legacy encodings RFC7810 and RFC5305 (idnit RFC7810 is obsoleted by RFC8570).
  • Example#2: section= 5.2 “OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV” the normative ref= erences are missing

 

 

Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should update the link attribut= e encoding references to reflect ASLA encoding as specified in section 11.<= o:p>

The text referencing legacy encodings should be remo= ved

 

G/

 

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We have no clear semantics for this prefix. A = difference that makes no difference is no difference. > =20 > [Les:] This question needs to be directed at those who prefer the Area = Prefix approach. It matters as it impacts configuration and = advertisement semantics. An anycast prefix is NOT a Node Prefix. > And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into the area. > =20 > =20 > =20 > How so? Traffic will be directed to the SID value (modulo PHP).=20 > [Les3:] If the prefix is private to a single router then traffic has = to pass through that router. If it is anycast the traffic could arrive = at any one of the routers supporting the anycast address. >=20 I must be missing something. My understanding of SR is that you forward = based on the label. Please educate me. Tony --Apple-Mail=_4C51CAD7-A3F1-4890-9FB8-FB230FA8C034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


Les,

 There then remains the question as to = whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D is anycast or unicast i.e., is = it common to all IERs or is it unique to whomever gets elected Area = Leader?
  
Does it matter? We have no clear = semantics for this prefix. A difference that makes no difference is no = difference.
 
[Les:] This question needs to be = directed at those who prefer the Area Prefix approach. It matters as it = impacts configuration and advertisement semantics. An anycast prefix is = NOT a Node Prefix.
And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into the = area.
 
 
 
How so?  Traffic will be directed to the SID value = (modulo PHP). 
[Les3:] If the prefix is private = to a single router then traffic has to pass through that router. If it = is anycast the traffic could arrive at any one of the routers supporting = the anycast address.



I must be missing = something. My understanding of SR is that you forward based on the = label.  Please educate me.

Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_4C51CAD7-A3F1-4890-9FB8-FB230FA8C034-- From nobody Thu Aug 6 09:37:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73513A0CDD; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uvhcCYbDutZ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:37:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A59223A0CDB; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:37:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2009; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1596731867; x=1597941467; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qLSceDwubQd7s65DfMgqbeknpcWy4N20Ay21AUsqlEs=; b=B0DdkLz/gQdgXIHQiToxUK0h7HKrumJ2I3roTK0h1LRKHJR0bLNm3Sgi 6+29eRoJEGaXKawCGLsYBO/APGfSLZ1C0DHc7hP6RO0WXJAuTBjerwN+s udKrsdj2vWTQmAyi5KyjK0T3Kn63KvulvzOqq5a7uy3Mt0sRIBXFhH+Dw s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BOBAAhMSxf/xbLJq1gHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgUqDbQEyhGKJAYdwJZokgWkLAQEBDi8EAQGETAKCLSU4EwI?= =?us-ascii?q?DAQELAQEFAQEBAgEGBG2FaIVxAQEBAQIBIw8BBUEQCxgCAiYCAlcGAQwIAQG?= =?us-ascii?q?DIoJdILQRdoEyhVKDXIFAgQ4qiQmEH4FBP4ERJwyCXT6EI4MxgmAEthuCbIM?= =?us-ascii?q?LlncFBwMegnyOWY4skimBap1pgWojgVczGggbFYMlTxkNnGg/A2cCBgEHAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?DCY9/AQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,441,1589241600"; d="scan'208";a="28480150" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 06 Aug 2020 16:37:42 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 076Gbg5T031350; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 16:37:42 GMT To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 18:37:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:37:49 -0000 Hi Gunter, On 06/08/2020 18:31, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: > Hi Authors, All, > > My understanding is that for new LSR applications we should select > either “ASLA encoding” or select “legacy encoding” for all Link attributes. > > Not a mixture of both. There is a clear long term technology benefit of > using all ASLA encoding. > > In draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08 “Section 11: Advertisement of Link > Attributes for Flex-Algorithm” we find that use of ASLA is mandated > > “ > >   Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- > >    Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link > >    Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or > >    [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. > > “ > > This is a ‘normative’ instruction that link attributes MUST use ASLA > encoding. > > Hence link attributes like (e)ag, te-metric and delay MUST be ASLA encoded. > > Is that correct understanding? yes, for any link attributes used for flex-algo. > > If yes, it is odd that some attributes are new ASLA and some other are > non-future proof ‘LEGACY’ encodings > > * Example#1: section 5.1 “ISIS Flexible Algorithm Definition Sub-TLV” > and section 5.2 “OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV” point > towards legacy encodings RFC7810 and RFC5305 (idnit RFC7810 is > obsoleted by RFC8570). > * Example#2: section 5.2 “OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV” the > normative references are missing ASLA is link-attributes related (Application Specific Link Attributes). ASLA can only be used to encode link attributes. FAD is not a link attribute, so it can not use ASLA. thanks, Peter > > Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should update the link attribute encoding > references to reflect ASLA encoding as specified in section 11. > > The text referencing legacy encodings should be removed > > G/ > From nobody Thu Aug 6 10:11:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604283A0D24; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 10:11:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id byaXD8safL41; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM0PR07MB6386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a168ac4b-5114-42e3-3212-08d83a2bb6c7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Aug 2020 17:11:09.6382 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6FNhyO2BjLh5KVybQawgNokmzKXmq4drk2DvearzhumUEfE8ocDlESBROWxbP5Fp+DV9j5Ltcn5LZzUg2+qAD0IiaviZ0KdANyNuR4Di5RU= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR07MB3073 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 17:11:14 -0000 Thanks for the clarification and fast answer. Indeed FAD does not encode any attributes.=20 That was not the point I was trying to make. . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy encoding (RF= C7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not correct based u= pon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit reference be added for [= I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? . Similar for section 5.2 where a reference to RFC7471 and RFC3630 should b= e added together with explicit reference to [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reu= se]. Explicit reference to ASLA encodings in section 5.1 and 5.2 will avoid conf= usion and avoid legacy link attribute encodings (rfc7810/5305/7471/3630) fo= r flex-algo. Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and delay lin= k attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. G/ ________________________________________ From: Peter Psenak Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 6:37:42 PM To: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for = flex-algo=20 =A0 Hi Gunter, On 06/08/2020 18:31, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: > Hi Authors, All, >=20 > My understanding is that for new LSR applications we should select=20 > either "ASLA encoding" or select "legacy encoding" for all Link attribute= s. >=20 > Not a mixture of both. There is a clear long term technology benefit of=20 > using all ASLA encoding. >=20 > In draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08 "Section 11: Advertisement of Link=20 > Attributes for Flex-Algorithm" we find that use of ASLA is mandated >=20 > " >=20 >=A0 =A0 Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- >=20 >=A0 =A0=A0 Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link >=20 >=A0 =A0=A0 Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-ap= p] or >=20 >=A0 =A0=A0 [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. >=20 > " >=20 > This is a 'normative' instruction that link attributes MUST use ASLA=20 > encoding. >=20 > Hence link attributes like (e)ag, te-metric and delay MUST be ASLA encode= d. >=20 > Is that correct understanding? yes, for any link attributes used for flex-algo. >=20 > If yes, it is odd that some attributes are new ASLA and some other are=20 > non-future proof 'LEGACY' encodings >=20 >=A0=A0 * Example#1: section 5.1 "ISIS Flexible Algorithm Definition Sub-TL= V" >=A0=A0=A0=A0 and section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" poin= t >=A0=A0=A0=A0 towards legacy encodings RFC7810 and RFC5305 (idnit RFC7810 i= s >=A0=A0=A0=A0 obsoleted by RFC8570). >=A0=A0 * Example#2: section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" t= he >=A0=A0=A0=A0 normative references are missing ASLA is link-attributes related (Application Specific Link Attributes). ASLA can only be used to encode link attributes. FAD is not a link=20 attribute, so it can not use ASLA. thanks, Peter >=20 > Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should update the link attribute encoding=20 > references to reflect ASLA encoding as specified in section 11. >=20 > The text referencing legacy encodings should be removed >=20 > G/ >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 6 14:28:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8CD3A0F2F for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:28:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: 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X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmmX5lbeoXFr/YlpAiH3mSotmBFIFPpJc1rsF7+GWrVEjiMj9rfxJSEFSBYXrhYHJhxIqOpVCTWq8mWft0Cp8= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fbd1:: with SMTP id o17mr7867297vsr.19.1596749677966; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:34:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> <2F899EBA-A1F2-4CC5-926C-7215A861E5D7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 17:34:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , Les Ginsberg , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000059ba1c05ac3c4109" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 21:34:41 -0000 --00000000000059ba1c05ac3c4109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony See section 3.3.1 of RFC 8402 SR Architecture https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8402#section-3.3.1 It has a nice graphical explanation of SR-MPLS Anycast usage. The concept of Anycast SID is similar to Multicast group GDA conceptually and similar to IGP routing anycast construct of proximity routing but more like the former GDA based routing. Basically you can have a group of nodes in the SR domain that can be assigned an Anycast SID A and another group an Anycast SID B for the nodes and a common group outer label Anycast SID is assigned to forward to the Group of nodes represented by the Anycast SID. The inner label is basically a common label to forward to the group of nodes. You can think of Anycast as similar to SR-TR prefix sid steering ECMP pathing where all paths are active to get to the unicast destination. In this case its all paths active but now to a pseudo multicast like =E2=80=9Canycast sid=E2=80=9D group destination. The concept of Anycast SID exists with SRv6 as well. I think to your point I am not sure why it matters and can the Area prefix be either unicast or Anycast. As far at the area leader if that is a single node then the node sid could be utilized and if the area leader is a group or more then one node then a Anycast sid could be utilized. I think flexibility would be best so it can be either as you pointed out. Kind Regards Gyan On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM Tony Li wrote: > > > Les, > > * There then remains the question as to whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix= =E2=80=9D is > anycast or unicast i.e., is it common to all IERs or is it unique to > whomever gets elected Area Leader?* > > > Does it matter? We have no clear semantics for this prefix. A difference > that makes no difference is no difference. > > *[Les:] This question needs to be directed at those who prefer the Area > Prefix approach. It matters as it impacts configuration and advertisement > semantics. An anycast prefix is NOT a Node Prefix.* > *And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into the area.* > > > > > How so? Traffic will be directed to the SID value (modulo PHP). > *[Les3:] If the prefix is private to a single router then traffic has to > pass through that router. If it is anycast the traffic could arrive at an= y > one of the routers supporting the anycast address.* > > > > I must be missing something. My understanding of SR is that you forward > based on the label. Please educate me. > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --00000000000059ba1c05ac3c4109 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

--
Hi Tony=C2=A0
=
See section 3.3.1 of RFC 8402 SR Architecture= =C2=A0

It has a nice= graphical explanation of SR-MPLS Anycast usage.
The concept of Anycast SID is similar to Multicast= group GDA conceptually and similar to IGP routing anycast construct of pro= ximity routing but more like the former GDA based routing.=C2=A0

Basically you can have a group of = nodes in the SR domain that can be assigned an Anycast SID A and another gr= oup an Anycast SID B for the nodes and a common group outer label Anycast S= ID is assigned to forward to the Group of nodes represented by the Anycast = SID.=C2=A0 The inner label is basically a common label to forward to the gr= oup of nodes. =C2=A0

You= can think of Anycast as similar to SR-TR prefix sid steering ECMP pathing = where all paths are active to get to the unicast destination.

In this case its all paths active but= now to a pseudo multicast like =E2=80=9Canycast sid=E2=80=9D group destina= tion.

The concept of Any= cast SID exists with SRv6 as well.

I think to your point I am not sure why it matters and can the A= rea prefix be either unicast or Anycast.=C2=A0 As far at the area leader if= that is a single node then the node sid could be utilized and if the area = leader is a group or more then one node then a Anycast sid could be utilize= d.=C2=A0 I think flexibility would be best so it can be either as you point= ed out.

Kind Regards=C2= =A0


Gyan

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:


Les,

=C2=A0There then remains the question a= s to whether the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D is anycast or unicast i.e., = is it common to all IERs or is it unique to whomever gets elected Area Lead= er?
<= /blockquote>
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Does it matter? We have no clea= r semantics for this prefix. A difference that makes no difference is no di= fference.
=C2=A0
[Les:] This question needs to be directed at those who prefer the Are= a Prefix approach. It matters as it impacts configuration and advertisement= semantics. An anycast prefix is NOT a Node Prefix.
And it impacts how traffic is forwarded into the area.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
= =C2=A0
How so?=C2=A0 Traffic will be dir= ected to the SID value (modulo PHP).=C2=A0
[Les3:] If the prefix is private to a single router then t= raffic has to pass through that router. If it is anycast the traffic could = arrive at any one of the routers supporting the anycast address.

=

I must be missing something. My underst= anding of SR is that you forward based on the label.=C2=A0 Please educate m= e.

Tony

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--00000000000059ba1c05ac3c4109-- From nobody Thu Aug 6 14:42:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA4F3A064A for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kr7R8lqRnnbf for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com (mail-pj1-x1036.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 228493A0598 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id mw10so3656267pjb.2 for ; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:42:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=RyQ89fstPfMtiX4VigsCSgayIy0uOCRmI1MNFYNKO4E=; b=l/Ron//OBzJzZ95R0yvm01Esm+rRoQjBG4FgtRoDpEj/ifckTyLoaw9yVhx+r52iOy gxrD0x6S1Yn7EbZofjGapv8ML/yKy5ntcDyUhswgVi14z0DarHEuLzKZZBlGpAR0r8sK JlC1sa1ZUUGofRnp2plHhacBrlT3XVtdjmHSrhrwqroQoBeCd0swExWei15yIPfFb2kC fR4D2pAjeHDG4Qdvs3VzLWVpdfF8VCS+duwWwgPAZQ32/G8643Y+rSGypkCeMQON2pux wrUPOnIAoOO76F8F99Oo+ekPCY0GiLSp/nojViIElHQclq33y9Y7H4fcxrZ6dFUBkQS0 jcUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=RyQ89fstPfMtiX4VigsCSgayIy0uOCRmI1MNFYNKO4E=; b=sUhQbL8Jrt192Y6s6M6/UWk1JwnH6D+p/qtK8bMSNb5HUf/ElBa8uQEHUd47Jg3XBf nJryql+W1bk/+d0HfnE5thGOzdqXJIJFMJP2v2VEvr7Ve0Pwl3TONgXshNpWoLjee92c VjxgWviRqGJjE6WCJCqz9HmdkoKdIwMptQSfEtqjKyj0KiMeWZD/Sux96Hwxh4N4WORv Apn8TyQtrqXel4lbjv8IGviDuAtwHPNzWHcypQ9rj3yNOmMSQlVqJej48XrdUDH86mgV kzlLOfuyjt1/DcwISMVGJNc8Yyknr7iCv+Z5JSIloNBLjzPz401sCtyb76NwuHRuhCyZ HgCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530lHxNtgJQdmeOjouH75IGZE/3HO4x6Jzski8xGyum3OV8BouQX yB3V44IVkDaHtcEJaF7Icg0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxSmTWguscj1X7Qn/UlZ8F7bXsKOrWRPxaAurIhjoPjz3YvwbFhKOC335AYPiFGR/LXtDN1Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a981:: with SMTP id bh1mr9782444plb.157.1596750140467; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.202] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q13sm8812730pjj.36.2020.08.06.14.42.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 14:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li Message-Id: <165FB9F3-1CD8-40B1-B3B8-FE7EAF362156@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B43E3DD5-814A-48CF-B075-CDAB33925ECE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:42:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> <2F899EBA-A1F2-4CC5-926C-7215A861E5D7@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 21:42:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B43E3DD5-814A-48CF-B075-CDAB33925ECE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, > Not sure why this needs to be explained. Because we are not communicating well. We are each making unstated = assumptions that do not mesh. When we do not communicate, it=E2=80=99s time to double check the = basics. > Whether you are doing label forwarding or IP forwarding, the path of = the packet still depends upon reaching the destination. > If I have a unicast destination then the packet needs to reach the = unique advertiser of that destination. > If I have an anycast destination then the packet needs to reach only = one of the possibly many advertisers of that destination. You=E2=80=99re assuming that there=E2=80=99s actually traffic that is = destined to the specified prefix. I don=E2=80=99t share that = assumption. [Communication just improved!] At the end of the day, we=E2=80=99re talking about TE here and path = computation is not only about destinations. It=E2=80=99s also about the = path itself. The purpose of the Area SID is to provide a waypoint for = path computation, not to provide a destination. =20 > Are you proposing for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D that we tie the SID = to a prefix but alter the logic such that nodes which do not advertise = the prefix can be considered as the final destination? > I would not like to go down that path=E2=80=A6 =46rom my perspective, the entire purpose of the Area SID is to provide = the SID value so that some controller somewhere, in its infinite wisdom, = can stick a label somewhere in some lable stack and route packets via = the Proxy Area. The sole purpose of the prefix is to make SR syntax = happy. [See previous rant about encodings in IS-IS.] For my intent, we = could use 0.0.0.0/32 and 0::0/128. =20 Let me turn it around: what=E2=80=99s the simplest thing that we could = do that would satisfy you? Tony --Apple-Mail=_B43E3DD5-814A-48CF-B075-CDAB33925ECE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Les,

Not sure = why this needs to be explained.


Because we are not = communicating well. We are each making unstated assumptions that do not = mesh.

When we do not communicate, = it=E2=80=99s time to double check the basics.


Whether you are doing label forwarding = or IP forwarding, the path of the packet still depends upon reaching the = destination.
If I have = a unicast destination then the packet needs to reach the unique = advertiser of that destination.
If I have an anycast destination then = the packet needs to reach only one of the possibly many advertisers of = that destination.


You=E2=80=99re assuming = that there=E2=80=99s actually traffic that is destined to the specified = prefix.  I don=E2=80=99t share that assumption. =  [Communication just improved!]

At the end of the day, we=E2=80=99re talking about = TE here and path computation is not only about destinations. =  It=E2=80=99s also about the path itself. The purpose of the Area = SID is to provide a waypoint for path computation, not to provide a = destination.

 
Are you = proposing for =E2=80=9CArea SID=E2=80=9D that we tie the SID to a prefix = but alter the logic such that nodes which do not advertise the prefix = can be considered as the final destination?
I would = not like to go down that path=E2=80=A6


=46rom my perspective, the entire purpose of the = Area SID is to provide the SID value so that some controller somewhere, = in its infinite wisdom, can stick a label somewhere in some lable stack = and route packets via the Proxy Area.  The sole purpose of the = prefix is to make SR syntax happy.  [See previous rant about = encodings in IS-IS.] For my intent, we could use 0.0.0.0/32 and = 0::0/128.  

Let me turn it around: what=E2=80=99s the simplest thing that = we could do that would satisfy you?

Tony

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15.20.3239.024; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 05:58:07 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Tony Li CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Thread-Index: AdZqV1bpaX43pBLFSuS5ho/MIT6lUQAE/tVQAADz6SAAARjxgAAyekmAAAjF4kAAAOmGAAAFjJIwAAFXlIAAATwQwAAimPEAAAox82AAAKaWgAARBgXw Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 05:58:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> <2F899EBA-A1F2-4CC5-926C-7215A861E5D7@gmail.com> <165FB9F3-1CD8-40B1-B3B8-FE7EAF362156@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <165FB9F3-1CD8-40B1-B3B8-FE7EAF362156@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j198sm11386631pfd.205.2020.08.06.23.45.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 23:45:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tony Li Message-Id: <40E7470A-E21F-4D32-A69E-CB54A40C7200@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3FBE8B48-7767-49C8-875A-45D12559594C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 23:45:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> <2F899EBA-A1F2-4CC5-926C-7215A861E5D7@gmail.com> <165FB9F3-1CD8-40B1-B3B8-FE7EAF362156@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 06:45:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3FBE8B48-7767-49C8-875A-45D12559594C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Les, > 1)Invent a new type of SID which is associated with an area. > In this case some variation of encodings defined in V2 of the draft = are appropriate. But these aren=E2=80=99t backward compatible, which operators clearly = want. =20 > 2)Use a reachable address to get to the area. That address could be = the node address of the current Area Leader or an anycast address shared = by all IERs. Either of these is fine by me. Do others care? > IN which case existing prefix SID advertisement is appropriate coupled = with a means of identifying the address. There are two proposed = encodings for that. And here we haven=E2=80=99t come to agreement. Do others have a = preference? Tony --Apple-Mail=_3FBE8B48-7767-49C8-875A-45D12559594C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Les,

1)Invent a new type of SID = which is associated with an area.
In this case some variation of = encodings defined in V2 of the draft are = appropriate.


But these aren=E2=80=99t = backward compatible, which operators clearly want.

 
2)Use a = reachable address to get to the area. That address could be the node = address of the current Area Leader or an anycast address shared by all = IERs.


Either of these is fine by me.  Do others = care?


IN which = case existing prefix SID advertisement is appropriate coupled with a = means of identifying the address. There are two proposed encodings for = that.


And here we haven=E2=80=99= t come to agreement.  Do others have a preference?

Tony


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15.20.3239.024; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:11:25 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Tony Li CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Bruno Decraene , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-02 Thread-Index: AdZqV1bpaX43pBLFSuS5ho/MIT6lUQAE/tVQAADz6SAAARjxgAAyekmAAAjF4kAAAOmGAAAFjJIwAAFXlIAAATwQwAAimPEAAAox82AAAKaWgAARBgXwAAH1sgAAAMsnQA== Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 07:11:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <32323_1596545126_5F295866_32323_118_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0BB30@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4558_1596554251_5F297C0B_4558_298_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A48F0C59B@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <95A83DB0-A58C-4BD5-AF0B-8EF49D20EB3A@gmail.com> <89F6F8E5-E11D-4A6E-A783-8C9384FE3A1A@cisco.com> <824DFF9C-56E4-4E4F-A249-2E9413D85CC4@gmail.com> <2F899EBA-A1F2-4CC5-926C-7215A861E5D7@gmail.com> <165FB9F3-1CD8-40B1-B3B8-FE7EAF362156@gmail.com> <40E7470A-E21F-4D32-A69E-CB54A40C7200@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: 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from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0779FqFU002301; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:15:53 GMT To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:15:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 09:15:59 -0000 Hi Gunter, On 06/08/2020 19:11, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: > Thanks for the clarification and fast answer. > > Indeed FAD does not encode any attributes. > That was not the point I was trying to make. > > . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy encoding (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not correct based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit reference be added for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay and TE Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and RFC5305. The fact that we advertise them in ASLA does not change their origin. > . Similar for section 5.2 where a reference to RFC7471 and RFC3630 should be added together with explicit reference to [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. I'm not seeing RFC7471 and RFC3630 being reference anywhere in the draft. > > Explicit reference to ASLA encodings in section 5.1 and 5.2 will avoid confusion and avoid legacy link attribute encodings (rfc7810/5305/7471/3630) for flex-algo. I really do not see any relevance of FAD and ASLA. Linking these together will be wrong. > > Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and delay link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. Section 11 already says: Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today wold be dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and we want the ASLA to be mandatory for all of them. thanks, Peter > > G/ > > ________________________________________ > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 6:37:42 PM > To: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org > Cc: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo > > Hi Gunter, > > On 06/08/2020 18:31, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: >> Hi Authors, All, >> >> My understanding is that for new LSR applications we should select >> either "ASLA encoding" or select "legacy encoding" for all Link attributes. >> >> Not a mixture of both. There is a clear long term technology benefit of >> using all ASLA encoding. >> >> In draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08 "Section 11: Advertisement of Link >> Attributes for Flex-Algorithm" we find that use of ASLA is mandated >> >> " >> >>     Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- >> >>      Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link >> >>      Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or >> >>      [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. >> >> " >> >> This is a 'normative' instruction that link attributes MUST use ASLA >> encoding. >> >> Hence link attributes like (e)ag, te-metric and delay MUST be ASLA encoded. >> >> Is that correct understanding? > > yes, for any link attributes used for flex-algo. > >> >> If yes, it is odd that some attributes are new ASLA and some other are >> non-future proof 'LEGACY' encodings >> >>    * Example#1: section 5.1 "ISIS Flexible Algorithm Definition Sub-TLV" >>      and section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" point >>      towards legacy encodings RFC7810 and RFC5305 (idnit RFC7810 is >>      obsoleted by RFC8570). >>    * Example#2: section 5.2 "OSPF Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV" the >>      normative references are missing > > ASLA is link-attributes related (Application Specific Link Attributes). > > ASLA can only be used to encode link attributes. FAD is not a link > attribute, so it can not use ASLA. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Sections 5.1 and 5.2 should update the link attribute encoding >> references to reflect ASLA encoding as specified in section 11. >> >> The text referencing legacy encodings should be removed >> >> G/ >> > > From nobody Fri Aug 7 03:36:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7B43A0EF4; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 03:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id snMA5TNI4C2a; 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d="scan'208";a="28564709" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 07 Aug 2020 10:35:57 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 077AZvZf019912; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 10:35:57 GMT To: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 12:35:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] WG LC Request for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 10:36:04 -0000 Hi Acee, Chris, as discussed during the WG meeting last week, on behalf of all authors of draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo, I would like to ask for the WG LC. thanks, Peter From nobody Fri Aug 7 08:30:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C31E3A08DB; 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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id np4sm11446448pjb.4.2020.08.07.08.30.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Aug 2020 08:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 08:30:08 -0700 Cc: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> To: Peter Psenak X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 15:30:24 -0000 Peter, >> . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy = encoding (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not = correct based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit = reference be added for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? >=20 >=20 > well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay and = TE Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and RFC5305. The = fact that we advertise them in ASLA does not change their origin. Could we please get a clarification in section 5.1 then? The references = there to 7810 and 5305 without any qualification strongly suggest that = the encoding from those RFCs should be used. >> Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and = delay link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. >=20 > Section 11 already says: >=20 > Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- > Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link > Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or > [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. >=20 > I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today wold = be dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and we want = the ASLA to be mandatory for all of them. You could add a sentence that says: In particular, the Min Unidirectional Link Delay, TE Default = Metric, Administrative Group, Extended Administrative Group, Shared Risk = Link Group Value TLVs are all to be encoded iin the ASLA advertisements = for use with FlexAlgo. Please add any I missed. Regards, Tony From nobody Fri Aug 7 11:03:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6481C3A0C17; Fri, 7 Aug 2020 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159682338834.6431.17986405339447443240@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 11:03:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 18:03:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Model for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs Authors : Acee Lindem Sharmila Palani Yingzhen Qu Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2020-08-07 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model augmenting the IETF OSPF YANG model to provide support for OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA) Extensibility as defined in RFC 8362. OSPFv3 Extended LSAs provide extensible TLV-based LSAs for the base LSA types defined in RFC 5340. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Fri, 07 Aug 2020 16:33:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Sarah Chen Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 16:33:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: Peter Psenak Cc: Tony Li , "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006e9b8b05ac5207f3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2020 23:33:19 -0000 --0000000000006e9b8b05ac5207f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Peter, The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [ RFC7810 ]". When reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay carried in the subTLV be ignored? Thanks, Sarah On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:30 AM wrote: > > Peter, > > > >> . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy encoding > (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not correct > based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit reference be > added for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? > > > > > > well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay and TE > Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and RFC5305. The fact > that we advertise them in ASLA does not change their origin. > > > Could we please get a clarification in section 5.1 then? The references > there to 7810 and 5305 without any qualification strongly suggest that the > encoding from those RFCs should be used. > > > >> Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and delay > link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. > > > > Section 11 already says: > > > > Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- > > Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link > > Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or > > [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. > > > > I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today wold be > dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and we want the ASLA > to be mandatory for all of them. > > > You could add a sentence that says: > > In particular, the Min Unidirectional Link Delay, TE Default > Metric, Administrative Group, Extended Administrative Group, Shared Risk > Link Group Value TLVs are all to be encoded iin the ASLA advertisements for > use with FlexAlgo. > > Please add any I missed. > > Regards, > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000006e9b8b05ac5207f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,= Peter,

The flex-algo dra= ft mentions "Min = Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC7810]". When reading RFC7810, I= found two Sub-TLVs:

4.1. Unidirection= al Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV

Could you please clarify which=C2=A0one should= be used? If "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used,= will the max delay carried in the subTLV be ignored?

Thanks,
<= span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Sarah

On= Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:30 AM <tony.li= @tony.li> wrote:

Peter,


>> . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy enc= oding (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not correc= t based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit reference be ad= ded for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]?
>
>
> well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay and T= E Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and RFC5305. The fact= that we advertise them in ASLA does not change their origin.


Could we please get a clarification in section 5.1 then?=C2=A0 The referenc= es there to 7810 and 5305 without any qualification strongly suggest that t= he encoding from those RFCs should be used.


>> Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and = delay link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA..
>
> Section 11 already says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during F= lex-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Li= nk
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-= te-app] or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse].
>
> I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today w= old be dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and we want t= he ASLA to be mandatory for all of them.


You could add a sentence that says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In particular, the Min Unidirectional Link Dela= y, TE Default Metric, Administrative Group, Extended Administrative Group, = Shared Risk Link Group Value TLVs are all to be encoded iin the ASLA advert= isements for use with FlexAlgo.

Please add any I missed.

Regards,
Tony

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--0000000000006e9b8b05ac5207f3-- From nobody Mon Aug 10 01:28:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FB33A0DDC; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:28:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id reOAYYBfu7C7; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE4363A145F; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:28:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3022; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597048091; x=1598257691; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=A9MtFx5b3vCO+s2SDPptjTYtZItysZKrLKdWmMgpXZE=; b=BtUm8UUpAYjgXwh0btN9pWGgnm3DPywGcklSiAWmfk3wuTcwHLBKq2af P2DaOXs9ddIQ1cMZmMWHMC5bfoxPqHLca/IHI/5ko3M/WaQSMABlEUFP3 0RkIFj1fRhulWLfet8Wi0ZEob3WSe/SL4o9jH1l17mkqSvax4wM3mvBVD A=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AFAwDkBDFf/xbLJq1gHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?UqDGVQBIBIshDaJAYgYnBELAQEBDhgLDAQBAYRMAoI3JTgTAgMBAQEDAgMBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVwMhXEBAQEDAQEBIQ8BBS8HCxAJAhgCAiMDAgInHxEGD?= =?us-ascii?q?QYCAQGDIgGCXCAPllybBHaBMoVSg2WBOgaBDiqNKYFBP4ERJ4JpPoJcAQEDh?= =?us-ascii?q?HOCYASPPVOmFoJsgwuFWJEqBQcDHoJ9iVgFhQSONJxrlR+BaiOBVzMaCBsVO?= =?us-ascii?q?4JpUBkNjlaHAIFOhUQ/AzA3AgYBBwEBAwmRFQEB?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,457,1589241600"; d="scan'208";a="26186234" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 10 Aug 2020 08:27:44 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07A8RiRo005578; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:27:44 GMT To: Sarah Chen Cc: Tony Li , "lsr@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:27:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:28:13 -0000 Hi Sarah, On 08/08/2020 01:33, Sarah Chen wrote: > Hi, Peter, > > The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined > in [RFC7810 ]". When reading > RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: > > 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional Link > Delay Sub-TLV > > Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max > Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay carried > in the subTLV be ignored? flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV". The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage. thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Sarah > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:30 AM > wrote: > > > Peter, > > > >> . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy > encoding (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is > not correct based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an > explicit reference be added for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? > > > > > > well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay > and TE Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and > RFC5305. The fact that we advertise them in ASLA does not change > their origin. > > > Could we please get a clarification in section 5.1 then?  The > references there to 7810 and 5305 without any qualification strongly > suggest that the encoding from those RFCs should be used. > > > >> Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric > and delay link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. > > > > Section 11 already says: > > > >   Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- > >   Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link > >   Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in > [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or > >   [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. > > > > I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today > wold be dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and > we want the ASLA to be mandatory for all of them. > > > You could add a sentence that says: > >         In particular, the Min Unidirectional Link Delay, TE > Default Metric, Administrative Group, Extended Administrative Group, > Shared Risk Link Group Value TLVs are all to be encoded iin the ASLA > advertisements for use with FlexAlgo. > > Please add any I missed. > > Regards, > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Mon Aug 10 01:52:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 616E83A0E5A; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:52:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qegl6SUi1cL2; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3336B3A0E55; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 01:52:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1835; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597049538; x=1598259138; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=O4Q1ovz0Rgw+g7Bv60KieD1cl0WCPIVveDflKDAw60g=; b=aHKdUpzRcLXCPmpVZNHrzGLGB+WzIVITCBRHPyWnGvZcpy7hTuF1D5DU iiyHM9CpML+LJwAKl87Gftm1TR3+1h/q1BMItLSCfSiqn2nQPDBNldbRf wiHR7eaMMfeLcoOUWhZk8pVaamsAKjhLxkyC03OM3pfRiEDzhvQjxtioo 8=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D8AACnCTFf/xbLJq1fGwEBAQEBAQEBBQEBARIBAQEDA?= =?us-ascii?q?wEBAUCBSoNtASASLIQ2iQGIGZwRCwEBAQ4vBAEBhEwCgjclOBMCAwEBAQMCA?= =?us-ascii?q?wEBAQEFAQEBAgEGBG2FXAyFcgEFIxVBEAsYAgImAgJXBgEMBgIBAYMign2xL?= =?us-ascii?q?3aBMoVSg2aBQIEOKokKhB+BQT+BESeCaT6HVIJgBI89U4sLmwuCbIMLlwIFB?= =?us-ascii?q?wMegn2JWAWFBI40ki6fXIFqI4FXMxoIGxWDJFAZDY5WhwCHEj8DMDcCBggBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QMJkRUBAQ?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,457,1589241600"; d="scan'208";a="26187176" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 10 Aug 2020 08:52:14 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07A8qDBO032478; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:52:13 GMT To: tony.li@tony.li, Peter Psenak Cc: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <3eaf884a-9f29-8c60-d88e-50484f4c3262@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:52:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:52:21 -0000 Tony, ok, seems like Gunter and you share the same concerns. Will clarify the two points discussed. thanks, Peter On 07/08/2020 17:30, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > Peter, > > >>> . The existing description in section 5.1 indicate that legacy encoding (RFC7810 and RFC5305) is used for link attributes. That is not correct based upon section 11. To avoid ambiguity can an explicit reference be added for [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]? >> >> >> well, section 5.1. is correct. The Min Unidirectional Link Delay and TE Default metric respectively were defined in RFC7810 and RFC5305. The fact that we advertise them in ASLA does not change their origin. > > > Could we please get a clarification in section 5.1 then? The references there to 7810 and 5305 without any qualification strongly suggest that the encoding from those RFCs should be used. > > >>> Could in section 11 be explicit reference to (e)ag, te-metric and delay link attributes MUST be encoded using ASLA.. >> >> Section 11 already says: >> >> Link attribute advertisements that are to be used during Flex- >> Algorithm calculation MUST use the Application Specific Link >> Attribute (ASLA) advertisements defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] or >> [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse]. >> >> I'm not sure what else can we say. Listing the ones we use today wold be dangerous, because we may define additional ones later and we want the ASLA to be mandatory for all of them. > > > You could add a sentence that says: > > In particular, the Min Unidirectional Link Delay, TE Default Metric, Administrative Group, Extended Administrative Group, Shared Risk Link Group Value TLVs are all to be encoded iin the ASLA advertisements for use with FlexAlgo. > > Please add any I missed. > > Regards, > Tony > > > From nobody Mon Aug 10 04:01:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255C93A14EC; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 04:01:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c4fa4608-5078-4f54-ca2d-08d83d1ca7cb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Aug 2020 11:00:55.5717 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ypaoqn7V6xYvzKx0+He6MhI+VU5pMCWsoOORcmuPW1liTs4kKzbQoXKjyPq8ae4SKmH7lkccURRqUPgZS6B0dA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6946 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WGLC request for draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:01:00 -0000 From: Lsr on behalf of Yingzhen Qu =0A= Sent: 07 August 2020 22:55=0A= =0A= Hi Chairs,=0A= =0A= On behalf of the authors, I=92d like to request WG LC of =93YANG Model for = OSPFv3 Extended LSAs=94: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-os= pfv3-extended-lsa-yang/=0A= =0A= =0A= This is a tough read. I would like to compare the data structures with tho= se in the RFC defining the LSA but the YANG module is devoid of such refere= nces. Adding those references would encourage me to review more.=0A= =0A= And there are a number of admin issues.=0A= =0A= Requirements lacks RFC8174 in the body of the I-D=0A= =0A= I see no upper case words in the YANG module but you include the boilerplat= e.=0A= =0A= Tree diagrams no reference=0A= =0A= XXXX means different I-D in different places=0A= =0A= import lack references=0A= =0A= security lacks TLS1.3=0A= =0A= RFC8242 not in I-D References=0A= =0A= RFC8174 not in I-D References=0A= =0A= import OSPF must be Normative=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= This model severs as a foundation for future OSPFv3 extensions using extend= ed LSAs (RFC 8362) and will be augmented by those new features, such as OSP= Fv3 Extensions for Segment Routing.=0A= =0A= Please let us know if you need any other info.=0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= Yingzhen=0A= From nobody Mon Aug 10 07:21:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96BB3A15E4; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wYLGUdb6Zljx; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F3533A15E1; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id d22so5442311pfn.5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=9dkqlDLcjItmMXZQ2OllSBtUxpfiktGGIeYpuKQ5pVs=; b=m5KC/ftdgnGfN3RDnHZWyiUDpUeAAFinh2S4BMWFreWwcB5n/6S8crAKnzjfo9nXXY Ck0pQQGSNz23yHlK7q5x7i7xYqxfAhDtnhC/SWBsG8A+XlYZdYlp7lsQLTBF+sQB9/Op N6+6dgqXQv6ZaQeWPqfTuepCS34D+a59ny44dxQ4nH9rfjVZRUF3C4cv48pEiXnbsQmN OMuKxdWJQ6f+KTOM+elVcZWFAguXHpzqFXIsf7wTsYlUamwCIsz7Gl5UThuj7NJ7bjeI kKJ97X4NDu0/sVO6Box745tH4h9xYHchblB+xRzF/0ZL9ikrz1SBBkltSbZWz/zfAuu9 f8+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=9dkqlDLcjItmMXZQ2OllSBtUxpfiktGGIeYpuKQ5pVs=; b=f9EinTULz+EtUFMLDsL9BeSnLBjbmkDPbz92ml37S8v0VTWctakvU+qHXrTrTfQd+d bzGx3RfjZKevBRYURaSGhqXuyD1pfSPJwb1kI+zkVQIb8THCduigIGdmOJkX4vjptkj8 pJpfsh/BTGKSQCqmKLDgVY/csomipb6L2frXKFnU8Ex3HNF8rfXWXoShpuALzOkAh1au shs08kzqUEzCu04v5v9kkQbEz3CxQu6mU59uhaYPvNDsfpTvIpJ2mTYZgHVRkY1GNS7A 6SZjtx38H95PqR3C9v8hf9quOaz5Tvqjw0jGU7BA/HVq/WPC+ghDM97EFwWaWh82D4Zw Dm2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ibSiiJTB+RP3yrdAu0mIK4jJyDFUnmRRhyQomdW60V8COEii0 G/v6ozNSvszxVgee8Znf8PIAlNfj X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwgCWhWx0Ip1TC1ATy+cPfU6NwbyfT0BL3Y99YnvOncNdvDPWdkOvnpXapRpZVLEeieO97i4Q== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:980f:: with SMTP id e15mr1220763pfl.194.1597069299718; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.4.24] (c-67-169-103-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n17sm5780478pgg.6.2020.08.10.07.21.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_466B5979-37EF-48FA-ADDB-B1ACB712EE0B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:21:34 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> Cc: Sarah Chen , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" To: Peter Psenak References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:21:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_466B5979-37EF-48FA-ADDB-B1ACB712EE0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Peter, >> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as = defined in [RFC7810 >]". When reading RFC7810, I found = two Sub-TLVs: >> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional = Link Delay Sub-TLV >> Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay carried = in the subTLV be ignored? >=20 > flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link = Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay = Sub-TLV". >=20 > The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries = some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage. Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific = section? Thanks, Tony --Apple-Mail=_466B5979-37EF-48FA-ADDB-B1ACB712EE0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Peter,


The = flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in = [RFC7810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7810>]". When reading = RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs:
4.1. Unidirectional Link = Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV
Could you please clarify which one should be used? If = "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay = carried in the subTLV be ignored?

flex-algo as defined in the = draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", which is advertised in the = "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV".

The fact that the "Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries some other data (e.g. Max = delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage.


Could we please clarify = this by adding a reference to the specific section?

Thanks,
Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_466B5979-37EF-48FA-ADDB-B1ACB712EE0B-- From nobody Mon Aug 10 08:56:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C64B3A07C5; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o0pyyiR_xfNO; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE97A3A07C3; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:56:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1041; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597074980; x=1598284580; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MQCaIsH2sDCOwXWf6wL1VffMbr5B5iaYDnYndVEhMz0=; b=SgdDiKdz1L6q6ilDymmaD1KVkI+8mlrrBYMkEhMk630tfwaxu6VBnXR7 x2IQ5E+kOoVsMM68mdS3UmlR2qEWSzkv/87DiAv3yarG/uCHnSImktSN3 FVFs/5iVhZRbW8ie0gEvcZJy+LVuzh8fLhpNJsnqquJz1cKeOobiLn3En Y=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BIAABjbTFf/xbLJq1gGQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?RIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQFAgUqDGVQBIBIshDaJAYgYnBELAQEBDh8QBAEBhEwCg?= =?us-ascii?q?jclOBMCAwEBAQMCAwEBAQEFAQEBAgEGBG2FXAyFcQEBAQMBIw8BBS8SEAsYA?= =?us-ascii?q?gImAgJXBgEMBgIBAYMiAYJcIA+xa3aBMoVSgymBOgaBDioBiQmEH4FBP4ERJ?= =?us-ascii?q?4JpPoJcAQEDhHOCYAS2JoJsgwuFWJEqBQcDHoJ9iViFCY40ki6KPZUfgWojg?= =?us-ascii?q?VczGggbFYMkUBkNjlaHAIFOhUQ/AzA3AgYBBwEBAwmROQEB?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,458,1589241600"; d="scan'208";a="26196621" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 10 Aug 2020 15:56:15 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07AFuFRS031843; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:56:15 GMT To: tony.li@tony.li, Peter Psenak Cc: Sarah Chen , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:56:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:56:22 -0000 Hi Tony, On 10/08/2020 16:21, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > >>> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as >>> defined in [RFC7810 ]". When >>> reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: >>> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional >>> Link Delay Sub-TLV >>> Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max >>> Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay >>> carried in the subTLV be ignored? >> >> flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link >> Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >> Sub-TLV". >> >> The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries >> some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage. > > > Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific section? which specific section do you have in mind? thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Tony > From nobody Mon Aug 10 09:51:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9353A0A12 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=arista.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SvZX2KTz62v6 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x331.google.com (mail-wm1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D61503A0A2E for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x331.google.com with SMTP id p14so183885wmg.1 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arista.com; s=googlenew; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KORHHyZHIlIDQ6qGn0a1yLRxB549yD7MRnCQtHj0KJY=; b=QrsHFFNAuKe/yymnAae0vtMCZxcJZt2i6lEQO4lJurra+J6qj8Fmu45c4i3Rqe0vbB m03IaqNQrSVlcpoiPjIGunvQkuSSj0/ixCno8EcrrT6H3nw/TjHBrSnoDm5AXk63vXdy 8TfeJtHNE+zj9mNUZPyV2OWvdsABZdoQdskWLnCHqUuhDqTNrPjtYDbLYAKu8CteAfD7 5dRNJSKRcwDtyt1tQx60NtmJ9m/1GvfVQbbAfAdR6NHEa1SaNBP5/nWtpFfn6ruFRKHo 4KnmB3unwdb8TYIUOvVX3JwRFEGEABSzB2jwFDWZBKl7X04hJEADlFlhixNtt50SvBu1 xAlA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KORHHyZHIlIDQ6qGn0a1yLRxB549yD7MRnCQtHj0KJY=; b=sxN47nIClm/gfVWRSRuAZRz481ujxGzue56sbqQYo4qxn9ac/iPpnDX/jzZ1HBhBB+ LB6zn6JnJmIlyHcYIIV7xBNbW4dy2xRkFFf/kScmJYXBp/L3eyM9RP+EtG0f9WpUmqpL j5kAo7wMKYgcmYjvRuTKV98IHcicwgQiGRY+KlaO0bDQ0RfRiiwEqVKMqj455vF41KT5 Zgyt+zxOgJjP4SK61iNSr3FAc8nC3cVRIzLmnNAOviYBatII/5vyBlObZvYGak0Jd/xs Hy5ZXJiS1OCcEsJ9YhzDN9LxZK+RP+gfCZdDC0n15iYNp3AkDRl6ykyW6uyeWFcO83W9 cR5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328ZutPM4Xnb9YFTxLvqdMNeoUVA4m5CRG1eScidcnD8vkuAFUq Yiiad6P65tJFEgCxIrm+kg8/CiN46RXkBSGUaari2A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJygjygENsj/4f5ZQ/VvCFB+/hlMTAkZ1WMA/hSw6sG1y3Y46yUY63Uk2lLwWvj4V3RYVz3eaF5ldvxQIRN648c= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:49c6:: with SMTP id w189mr148280wma.97.1597078297078; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> In-Reply-To: From: Sarah Chen Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:51:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Peter Psenak Cc: Tony Li , Peter Psenak , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000093905e05ac88c42c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:51:41 -0000 --00000000000093905e05ac88c42c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank you, Peter, for the clarification. It would be nice to add a reference to the section number Section 4.2 . Thanks, Sarah On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 8:56 AM Peter Psenak wrote: > Hi Tony, > > On 10/08/2020 16:21, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > > >>> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as > >>> defined in [RFC7810 ]". When > >>> reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: > >>> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional > >>> Link Delay Sub-TLV > >>> Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max > >>> Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay > >>> carried in the subTLV be ignored? > >> > >> flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link > >> Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > >> Sub-TLV". > >> > >> The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries > >> some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage. > > > > > > Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific > section? > > which specific section do you have in mind? > > thanks, > Peter > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tony > > > > --00000000000093905e05ac88c42c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tha= nk you, Peter, for the clarification.

It would be nice to add a reference to the section number=C2= =A0Section 4.2= =C2=A0.
Thanks,
=
Sarah
On Mon, A= ug 10, 2020 at 8:56 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Tony,

On 10/08/2020 16:21, t= ony.li@tony.li wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
>
>>> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Del= ay as
>>> defined in [RFC7810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/= rfc7810>]". When
>>> reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs:
>>> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirecti= onal
>>> Link Delay Sub-TLV
>>> Could you please clarify which=C2=A0one should be used? If &qu= ot;Min/Max
>>> Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max = delay
>>> carried in the subTLV be ignored?
>>
>> flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Li= nk
>> Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirection= al Link Delay
>> Sub-TLV".
>>
>> The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV&= quot; carries
>> some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo us= age.
>
>
> Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific sec= tion?

which specific section do you have in mind?

thanks,
Peter


>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>

--00000000000093905e05ac88c42c-- From nobody Mon Aug 10 10:21:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84663A0B56; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gckds6xFn9Ha; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4196B3A0B75; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id f193so5845331pfa.12; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:21:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=riMmBI9Dl0lMSI3Vf64AMb1QXtJ5JuH8Xvl82qOKWcg=; b=eTzOOcknTDPxidHZloxzGIk5UYUNbb67atUfeHADnWFWe+daOZP8tHzR6slOSqx1a5 eIkaJWoMXaXOYvlZbEjsbDQvXvZlPEcmVyyW4CXFjE6Q6jTq+vihBNKO9HazBX0khHQh xdctaywtSoFSdZ8mKJ66Nb0ywG3+miiHDRy32JKzZXTJvQzHrKX3PaXHPgFj9N3Rg8GH hRAHaTkDPhpZWu5Dpx5i+A22bgKQiloesrQto9SZxOaqGD9XO3Bu2CgUt9HBZoKoWgFG nkS0PNNcATERTRZwVMkanakj9TGWCpYTBgc5K3lBedZxwyXa10vfYzaahmZv1wUjJNs3 HcpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=riMmBI9Dl0lMSI3Vf64AMb1QXtJ5JuH8Xvl82qOKWcg=; b=c9/TTWLycsUX7mhSmvmMGikD3MGtUmC/xLijcyczZP2PxqmJUU3sZ18hiYiZatF70M E4198/MF7Z4otMih3r5FSetU4g9OJyOFNB3h9mcn/fEpt5HM3ZGRZ7BDjGskh5qecC5A 00tvvrQSgxdGUzyF7o7zDqweni1Y8mCN0owdVIUMMxG4HW0cXenOpdMys6CgiNGo01/o /OdSoqP99sLaTwtyfAvXT+YgoaDcCcL0JcJT7faNlzbDpOLcqzLY01j9NaCs3+/K0ajE vBH20zf+aQGFNWb8QSZ1UgwlTXsL9WLh/0WKcMaWiFA+0n/Ap5QmZ6q5LSXXiOQGHKBm 3a4A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533dgS89sUFo+9fR+n5LHthnwtETtVqKVxf3PyW9bCjG6hIpMXtb Sue9kZtjsKcrFsVAx+4cr10= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxCbd9p1xjXGm0tGq0h9mLb3NRlXd65HFQsLldqaJVVHY8Y5vXhG1bjXqlaUrIolbA8J4rbKg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:c509:: with SMTP id f9mr22758897pgd.144.1597080059509; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.83.103] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z6sm23074845pfg.68.2020.08.10.10.20.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <16B855C6-6F88-4ECD-89FC-3961436EFC81@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F9D8F961-492D-42A8-89D3-417484577B0E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 09:00:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Peter Psenak , Sarah Chen , "lsr@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" To: Peter Psenak References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:21:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F9D8F961-492D-42A8-89D3-417484577B0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Peter, >>>> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as = defined in [RFC7810 ]". When = reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: >>>> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional = Link Delay Sub-TLV >>>> Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay carried = in the subTLV be ignored? >>>=20 >>> flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link = Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay = Sub-TLV". >>>=20 >>> The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" = carries some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo = usage. >> Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific = section? >=20 > which specific section do you have in mind? In the flex algo draft, in section 5.1, you current have the text: 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC7810 = ]. Could you please change that to: 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC7810 = ] Section 4.2. Thanks, Tony --Apple-Mail=_F9D8F961-492D-42A8-89D3-417484577B0E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Peter,

The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay = as defined in [RFC7810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7810>]". When reading = RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs:
4.1. Unidirectional Link = Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV
Could you please clarify which one should be used? If = "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay = carried in the subTLV be ignored?

flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional = Link Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link = Delay Sub-TLV".

The fact that the "Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" carries some other data (e.g. Max = delay) is orthogonal to the flex-algo usage.
Could we please clarify this by adding a = reference to the specific section?

which specific section do you have in mind?



In the flex algo draft, in section 5.1, you current have the = text:

	1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay =
as defined in [RFC7810].

Could you please change that to:

	1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay =
as defined in [RFC7810] Section 4.2.

Thanks,
Tony

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Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:52:00 +0000 From: tom petch To: Yingzhen Qu , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHWcJ78RmXEAI4DIkGUBHZ+5qK7OA== Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:51:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: futurewei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;futurewei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [81.131.229.35] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 53c0779d-a2a8-4ef5-547f-08d83eb61f28 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6325: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(346002)(396003)(33656002)(9686003)(478600001)(7696005)(83380400001)(66446008)(2906002)(8676002)(71200400001)(91956017)(66946007)(76116006)(6506007)(66476007)(66556008)(64756008)(26005)(5660300002)(86362001)(8936002)(316002)(66574015)(110136005)(55016002)(186003)(52536014)(966005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 53c0779d-a2a8-4ef5-547f-08d83eb61f28 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Aug 2020 11:51:59.9964 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZGYc5x7sazof2mUQCgUQQAeGsJLqh4K3/C0e5q1cCg8LAh0CNGilP4BXH6FZZbIZzqG6vKaCuXbV6x8yxSBxwA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6325 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 11:52:09 -0000 =0A= =0A= Looking at some more technical aspects of this=0A= =0A= /* Configuration */=0A= "This augments the OSPFv3 protocol configuration=0A= with segment routing.";=0A= really?=0A= =0A= leaf extended-lsa-support {=0A= leaf extended-lsa-support {=0A= why two? what does it mean if one is true and one false? (why not more=0A= than two?:-)=0A= =0A= I wonder too where this boolean is best placed; there seems to me to be=0A= no obvious ospfv3 place for it so=0A= "/rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols/rt:control-plane-protocol/ospf:o=0A= spf"=0A= is probably as good as any.=0A= =0A= when "/rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols"=0A= + "/rt:control-plane-protocol/rt:type =3D 'ospf:ospfv3'" {=0A= is rt:type always set to ospfv3 as opposed to ospf? is there something=0A= in ospf-yang that ensures this?=0A= =0A= * Link State Database (LSDB) Augmentations=0A= when "derived-from-or-self(/rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols"=0A= + "/rt:control-plane-protocol/rt:type,"=0A= + "'ospfv3')" {=0A= derived-from seems unnecessary for ospfv3, equality would do=0A= =0A= grouping ipv4-link-local-tlv {=0A= container ipv4-link-local-tlv {=0A= description "IPv6 Link-Local LSA TLV";=0A= IPv6 looks odd here=0A= =0A= grouping ospfv3-e-lsa-area {=0A= description "Area scope OSPFv3 Extended LSAs.";=0A= container e-router {=0A= when "derived-from(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-router-lsa')" {=0A= I see nothing derived from 'ospfv3-e-router-lsa' so I cannot see when=0A= this is true=0A= =0A= leaf type {=0A= type uint8;=0A= this is an enumeration in ospf-yang=0A= =0A= when "derived-from(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-network-lsa')"=0A= likewise I cannot see this being true=0A= =0A= when "derived-from(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-inter-area-prefix-lsa')"=0A= and again=0A= =0A= when "derived-from(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-inter-area-router-lsa')"=0A= and again=0A= =0A= when "derived-from-or-self(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-intra-area-prefix-lsa')"=0A= I think you know this by now but this one would work but is not needed,=0A= simple equality test would do.=0A= =0A= when "derived-from-or-self(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-as-external-lsa')"=0A= again equality is all that seems to be needed=0A= =0A= when "derived-from-or-self(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-nssa-lsa')"=0A= and again=0A= =0A= when "derived-from-or-self(../../ospf:header/ospf:type,=0A= 'ospfv3-e-link-lsa')=0A= and again=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= ----- Original Message -----=0A= From: =0A= To: =0A= Cc: =0A= Sent: Friday, August 07, 2020 7:03 PM=0A= Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt=0A= =0A= =0A= > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=0A= directories.=0A= > This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.=0A= >=0A= > Title : YANG Model for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs=0A= > Authors : Acee Lindem=0A= > Sharmila Palani=0A= > Yingzhen Qu=0A= > Filename :=0A= draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03.txt=0A= > Pages : 26=0A= > Date : 2020-08-07=0A= >=0A= > Abstract:=0A= > This document defines a YANG data model augmenting the IETF OSPF=0A= YANG=0A= > model to provide support for OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA)=0A= > Extensibility as defined in RFC 8362. OSPFv3 Extended LSAs provide=0A= > extensible TLV-based LSAs for the base LSA types defined in RFC=0A= 5340.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=0A= >=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang=0A= /=0A= >=0A= > There are also htmlized versions available at:=0A= > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-03=0A= >=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa=0A= -yang-03=0A= >=0A= > A diff from the previous version is available at:=0A= >=0A= https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yan= =0A= g-03=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=0A= submission=0A= > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A= >=0A= > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:=0A= > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > =0A= From nobody Wed Aug 12 07:39:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1193A12EA; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LW6DHsgXepNq; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 588C93A12FF; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:39:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1739; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597243165; x=1598452765; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y7eYeXX0pcJlcB02mM9LRAb27E03kRYJj19zZqyxibk=; b=ZE79XwLKK8d0/F3CKsro8mm/xgAZL01xWYr+EgxxjoEjPwzA+ajbW2TX beVEna2PFetezmlI5QMj0KZfe+I7AH05YQKa2FxIV5Gz3JYBjZp3ZdetV QmnRy9TAWyvXLcWL3QFWvO/dTQW9L4ELaWnYQ6BSJaygxQniAelF/lKYz Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CEAADi/TNf/xbLJq1fGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBARIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQFAgUoCgxdUASASLIQ2iQGHdyWcEQs?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEOHxAEAQGETAKCNyU5BQ0CAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVwMhXEBAQEDASM?= =?us-ascii?q?PAQUvEhALGAICJgICVwYBDAYCAQGDIgGCXCAPsit2gTKFUoM/gToGgQ4qAYk?= =?us-ascii?q?KhB+BQT+BEScMgl0+glwBAQOEc4JgBLYogmyDC4VYkSoFBwMegn6JWYUJjjW?= =?us-ascii?q?SL4o9lR+BayKBVzMaCBsVgyRQGQ2OVocAgU6FRD8DMDcCBgEHAQEDCZBxAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,304,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28635862" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 12 Aug 2020 14:39:21 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.35] ([10.147.24.35]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07CEdK1P020409; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:39:21 GMT To: tony.li@tony.li, Sarah Chen Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo@ietf.org" References: <2504c28e-4cc0-4505-0eff-943a033cbad0@cisco.com> <92f1fd3a-9a53-53a3-1da8-96c91824d742@cisco.com> <1f2c7457-e0bc-14fe-97b7-68b8ba733e09@cisco.com> <3C0FE8B9-1B0A-42CB-BB77-F5FBE9CE56B9@tony.li> <16B855C6-6F88-4ECD-89FC-3961436EFC81@tony.li> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:39:20 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16B855C6-6F88-4ECD-89FC-3961436EFC81@tony.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.35, [10.147.24.35] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-08] Clarification on ASLA usage for flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:39:31 -0000 Hi Tony, Sarah, On 10/08/2020 18:00, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > Hi Peter, > >>>>> The flex-algo draft mentions "Min Unidirectional Link Delay as >>>>> defined in [RFC7810 ]". When >>>>> reading RFC7810, I found two Sub-TLVs: >>>>> 4.1. Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV 4.2. Min/Max Unidirectional >>>>> Link Delay Sub-TLV >>>>> Could you please clarify which one should be used? If "Min/Max >>>>> Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" is used, will the max delay >>>>> carried in the subTLV be ignored? >>>> >>>> flex-algo as defined in the draft uses "Min Unidirectional Link >>>> Delay", which is advertised in the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link >>>> Delay Sub-TLV". >>>> >>>> The fact that the "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV" >>>> carries some other data (e.g. Max delay) is orthogonal to the >>>> flex-algo usage. >>> Could we please clarify this by adding a reference to the specific >>> section? >> >> which specific section do you have in mind? > > > > In the flex algo draft, in section 5.1, you current have the text: > > 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC7810 ]. > > > Could you please change that to: > > 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC7810 ] Section 4.2. I'm going to change the reference in section 5.1 to I-D.ietf-isis-te-app to address the other concern that Gunter and you expressed. I-D.draft-ietf-isis-te-app references RFC8570 for Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay Sub-TLV format, so we do not need to reference the RFC8570 here directly. thanks, Peter > > > Thanks, > Tony > From nobody Wed Aug 12 14:36:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9B53A0BE6; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:36:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159729345724.32598.10798369052469436120@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 21:37:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 04:37:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Model for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs Authors : Acee Lindem Sharmila Palani Yingzhen Qu Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2020-08-12 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model augmenting the IETF OSPF YANG model to provide support for OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA) Extensibility as defined in RFC 8362. OSPFv3 Extended LSAs provide extensible TLV-based LSAs for the base LSA types defined in RFC 5340. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:02:55 +0000 From: tom petch To: "lsr@ietf.org" CC: Yingzhen Qu Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04.txt Thread-Index: AQHWcSuRIOkUrehz7UmLs62i8LmET6k1yPk6 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:02:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <159729345724.32598.10798369052469436120@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <159729345724.32598.10798369052469436120@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [81.131.229.35] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6f58d7f0-7af7-438c-8bc7-08d83f700ca4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB3847: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: sbfwqP/OlXcWndmrM/y/wTsDPwhuHav+oZXsH8mBp2jfH1DmjE2Ras/fONKDGMWZYInGEfxBoOqLzWBOSn1FvSq9rB5Utvxtk+my/PbdyBoZwgdw92ucwGP1osMxxjG0IWdx3zmU8sFAStWOZb4xgtY1hEcbaQs7sOQj+RKkbesWkRNhx6/UUK6oiJBStjC+rXp7PSuDZoEvyb/S9g56p2k2BrvaKyGjcleRtupjNqzrbYJSMTp+k+bE3C33fbYnzKzxg3U8kE7u3AXNzkUJwkYsF9RTPD3yMng9NxHlLCHJh6+O/xMqaumH6UD6hpPSWO7Pf42OW7FZRBIg5MTQsVgwoRVmkWdsmQYfBmJ52KaZSXtH7Ug2tIcbXQfLfa1EQ0NA38RnWG3cXGZi7shkCA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6f58d7f0-7af7-438c-8bc7-08d83f700ca4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Aug 2020 10:02:55.1990 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i7fFE7I4IPZPu/cDRFh7HXOMZpVlhFqTHSafW8K/SSbIDWmi2IlXsNIGEtKgts8xXkfhik56nq5h1eakcuDOtw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB3847 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 10:03:01 -0000 From: Lsr on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org =0A= Sent: 13 August 2020 05:37=0A= =0A= I said before that it was tough to review because of a lack of references i= n the YANG module and that remains true.=0A= You have two Boolean to enable extended LSA on for ospf, one for area. Yes= , the answer is in RFC8362 but it tells me the YANG module is wrong - and i= t took me some time to find it. RFC8362 defines two parameters ExtendedLSA= Support and AreaExtendedLSASupport and the latter is not in the model; yes = you have a Boolean under area but I think its meaning requires a reading of= RFC8362 Appendix B and that is missing and the description is unclear and = the name is wrong. Also the RFC has a SHOULD in it which the model does no= t implement. You reference s.6.2 but I think that wrong, that it is Append= ices A and B that describe this.=0A= =0A= On type, you say there are three possible values. Precisely. Can you have = the type set to 'ospf' and support ospfv3? If so, your model fails. Or do= es ospf-yang only allow the type to be ospfv2 or ospfv3 and bar the use of = ospf per se?=0A= =0A= The reference statement after the description could do with a title as you = have for the revision description=0A= =0A= My point about link type is that you are augmenting ospf-yang which uses an= enum so in places users will be required to use an enum and in others a ui= nt8 which could be confusing=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.=0A= This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.=0A= =0A= Title : YANG Model for OSPFv3 Extended LSAs=0A= Authors : Acee Lindem=0A= Sharmila Palani=0A= Yingzhen Qu=0A= Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04.txt=0A= Pages : 27=0A= Date : 2020-08-12=0A= =0A= Abstract:=0A= This document defines a YANG data model augmenting the IETF OSPF YANG=0A= model to provide support for OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA)=0A= Extensibility as defined in RFC 8362. OSPFv3 Extended LSAs provide=0A= extensible TLV-based LSAs for the base LSA types defined in RFC 5340.=0A= =0A= =0A= The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang/= =0A= =0A= There are also htmlized versions available at:=0A= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang-04=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-ya= ng-04=0A= =0A= A diff from the previous version is available at:=0A= https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-extended-lsa-yang= -04=0A= =0A= =0A= Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n=0A= until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A= =0A= Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:=0A= ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= Lsr mailing list=0A= Lsr@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=0A= From nobody Fri Aug 14 00:46:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22E63A0DCF; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 00:46:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159739118688.7447.15844745895914841622@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 00:46:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions-01.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:46:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPFv3 Extensions for SRv6 Authors : Zhenbin Li Zhibo Hu Dean Cheng Ketan Talaulikar Peter Psenak Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions-01.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2020-08-14 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end paths by encoding paths as sequences of topological sub-paths, called "segments". Segment Routing architecture can be implemented over an MPLS data plane as well as an IPv6 data plane. This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required to support Segment Routing over an IPv6 data plane (SRv6). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospfv3-srv6-extensions-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Aug 14 02:57:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C373A0E83; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 02:57:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159739903535.11101.13454545775847364702@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 02:57:15 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-09.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 09:57:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IGP Flexible Algorithm Authors : Peter Psenak Shraddha Hegde Clarence Filsfils Ketan Talaulikar Arkadiy Gulko Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-09.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2020-08-14 Abstract: IGP protocols traditionally compute best paths over the network based on the IGP metric assigned to the links. Many network deployments use RSVP-TE based or Segment Routing based Traffic Engineering to steer traffic over a path that is computed using different metrics or constraints than the shortest IGP path. This document proposes a solution that allows IGPs themselves to compute constraint-based paths over the network. This document also specifies a way of using Segment Routing (SR) Prefix-SIDs and SRv6 locators to steer packets along the constraint-based paths. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Aug 14 10:35:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9A83A1218; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 10:35:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=ND0dVjoF; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=RuFtsJsW Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WyR7PCYcwAXT; 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boundary="_000_MW3PR11MB4570F20CFE2C0E46C8D4B2DEC1400MW3PR11MB4570namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MW3PR11MB4570.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0519285f-3710-4c50-1dc8-08d840785b6f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Aug 2020 17:34:54.4230 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ngNRlwDyEhvH2TnSAQj/H403ZQsna3lVtXsL5NIJsLdGS76qL+Dx5UvWIwsK16BbkwGLtxOWZdz7O4scvWHkQQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW3PR11MB4521 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 17:35:26 -0000 --_000_MW3PR11MB4570F20CFE2C0E46C8D4B2DEC1400MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_MW3PR11MB4570F20CFE2C0E46C8D4B2DEC1400MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

< also= copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

&nbs= p;

Hi Thomas= /All,

&nbs= p;

I have re= viewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.

&nbs= p;

What or h= ow much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled= /programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is mo= re important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same = prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FI= B in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inform= ation is not available therein.

&nbs= p;

On some n= odes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what w= ould we use/show?

&nbs= p;

I would r= ecommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peer= ing SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

&nbs= p;

This also= takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed to a large= extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases no= t possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements a= nd we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in differentia= tion between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?<= /p>

&nbs= p;

Could we = evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level of catego= rization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perha= ps consider a middle ground?

&nbs= p;

Thanks,

Ketan

&nbs= p;

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Hannes,

 =

Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

 =

Best Wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 

 =

From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Thomas,

 

I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

 

Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

 

thanks,

 

/hannes

=  

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

 

Dear lsr,

 

I presented the following draft=

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

 

and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

 

This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

 

I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

 

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

___________________________________= ____________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

--_000_MW3PR11MB4570F20CFE2C0E46C8D4B2DEC1400MW3PR11MB4570namp_-- From nobody Fri Aug 14 11:53:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFAE53A11D6; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7jEFyU9LwLku; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com (mail-pj1-x1033.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A2AE3A11E3; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id c10so5957616pjn.1; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=fFppN0z6+89H7YOWf9YPBmozkPeP71ILw0uP6nJb4Pg=; b=uaTBsmDBSKkFj2kCdp99r2vxajucK6zTlTBRtGacJtWYGRsVP6rIcXFal2ozCokEAN mxdW0uCB+fO1gaCPM6Esj5RrCTUo+uQDP3ne4Tn5CgnpS0qwYjiF7CpT7dpjRFOnbFJf vRcgOMCy9ZaQTSbrnad1f05gVh5OcmBVLL0m/T+9E5w9m1pd0x1cjwUtlI9N73thfnKn QCjuVVMbqycyE01Vig0BxP6zob5aBwusnql8uPbXgQouvHGV+Pgr2vBl3odfUw9jaiHE A3jwsaZNSmfjBUuKNnJLh9swaswHvJrwFEmt4bz4v+Sg7vXEql0dkL0iIFQxW+obo3MQ TvXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=fFppN0z6+89H7YOWf9YPBmozkPeP71ILw0uP6nJb4Pg=; b=XtthGA/wnfTmBrkcZqShiWl38djmZ+1e5nZvwlH+z3QLfIwKovxOsgahkPfC62JvOX b2alMgGHR7N+yV2R45A9Yuobnn7S+4AkWwJTwFIOz3e2eF7/qL+jr60IbjLA98hSSnoj uz30FBfJkuWuR0/SXNSoSPtG7Rtp3E6JCZ2t/zVGAUm4krKNIxSqnYjfPno2c3GfHGOC b1pEkM+FcY7y8l5lc677nCwy1sfK3UoI+xgOlS7g06jWRW/eJj2o1NApfnVyxcu29W1y Vr9e7UtDhRIB/0pLyNJ/eQ/RnuhPHbP3qY/OWq6/l9c+pUtL2yPPqUfd+FtquD66Fa8q X7GA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+pIM9pWrnhXsulEU3+xM1UqtZZtes5Fo96/zMlsEhYESm0SQI 1CD1R/i+B2Pk6QqDXrX2Pb0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyxO9r4M8SSuYQwfHWHPu1O09/jTxGNHq6KLoZU0rjEuUHk/vBJKfrLEEcYNeQqIrTJPu2rwA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b402:: with SMTP id x2mr2861371plr.309.1597431228544; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b23sm9796355pfo.12.2020.08.14.11.53.47 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 11:53:36 -0700 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "=?utf-8?Q?Thomas.Graf=40swisscom.com?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?hannes=40gredler.at?=" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?lsr=40ietf.org?=" , SPRING WG Message-ID: <1d8fb113-41c8-46cc-bfa3-54c04d406142@Spark> In-Reply-To: References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 1d8fb113-41c8-46cc-bfa3-54c04d406142@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5f36ddba_3804823e_1640" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 18:53:54 -0000 --5f36ddba_3804823e_1640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline In general, I agree with what Ketan said, what=E2=80=99s important - it i= s the value that is being used in forwarding, even if multiple control pl= ane entries exist, think about IGP migrations, or LDP to SR, where more t= han 1 protocol could be distributing the labels/SIDs. I=E2=80=99m not sur= e the =46IB is the right place to collect this data though, since most of= meta-data has already been lost (flattened =46IB structures often contai= n bare minimum) and really heavily depends on the implementation. Cheers, Jeff On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) , wrote: > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspecti= ve. > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID = was signalled/programmed on a node via OSP=46v2/OSP=46v3/ISIS =E2=80=93 w= hat matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any = deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same pre= fix from different IGPs. IP=46IX may be picking this information from a =46= IB in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inf= ormation is not available therein. > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 what would we use/show=3F > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID= , SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being propos= ed to a large extent. =46or that table proposal, it is very difficult and= in some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anyc= ast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sur= e more get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between s= ay an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID=3F > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this le= vel of categorization/information in IP=46IX against their value in flow = analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground=3F > > Thanks, > Ketan > > =46rom: Lsr On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf=40swissco= m.com > Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 > To: hannes=40gredler.at > Cc: lsr=40ietf.org > Subject: Re: =5BLsr=5D draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > Hi Hannes, > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take i= t for the next update... > > Best Wishes > Thomas > > > =46rom: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DC=46 > Cc: lsr=40ietf.org > Subject: Re: =5BLsr=5D draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > Thomas, > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite po= pular in DC deployments. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > thanks, > > /hannes > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf=40swisscom.com wrote: > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP =46low In= formation Export (IP=46IX) > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > at the spring working group at IET=46 108 yesterday > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow= -information-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IAN= A IP=46IX registry for IS-IS, OPS=46v2 and OPS=46 v3 and segment routing = SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg = but also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are rel= ated to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > Best Wishes > > Thomas Graf > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr=40ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > spring mailing list > spring=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --5f36ddba_3804823e_1640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
In general, I agree with what Ketan said, what=E2=80= =99s important - it is the value that is being used in forwarding, even i= f multiple control plane entries exist, think about IGP migrations, or LD= P to SR, where more than 1 protocol could be distributing the labels/SIDs= . I=E2=80=99m not sure the =46IB is the right place to collect this data = though, since most of meta-data has already been lost (flattened =46IB st= ructures often contain bare minimum) and really heavily depends on the im= plementation.&=23160;

Cheers,
Jeff
On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ke= tan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>, wr= ote:

< also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

&=23160;

Hi Thomas/All,

&=23160;

I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspectiv= e.

&=23160;

What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID w= as signalled/programmed on a node via OSP=46v2/OSP=46v3/ISIS =E2=80=93 wh= at matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any d= eployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same pref= ix from different IGPs. IP=46IX may be picking this information from a =46= IB in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inf= ormation is not available therein.

&=23160;

On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 what would we use/show=3F

&=23160;

I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID,= SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type.

&=23160;

This also takes away the need for the second table that is being propose= d to a large extent. =46or that table proposal, it is very difficult and = in some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anyca= st SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure= more get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between sa= y an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID=3F

&=23160;

Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this lev= el of categorization/information in IP=46IX against their value in flow a= nalysis to perhaps consider a middle ground=3F

&=23160;

Thanks,

Ketan

&=23160;

=46rom: L= sr <lsr-bounces=40ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf=40swiss= com.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes=40gredler.at
Cc: lsr=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BLsr=5D draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type=

&=23160;

Hi Hannes,

&=23160;

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes complet= ely sense. Will take it for the next update...

&=23160;

Best Wishes

Thomas

&=23160;

&=23160;

=46rom: H= annes Gredler <hannes=40gre= dler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DC=46 <Thomas.Graf=40swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr=40ietf.org
= Subject: Re: =5BLsr=5D draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type=

&=23160;

Thomas,

&=23160;

I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

&=23160;

Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite pop= ular in DC deployments.

&=23160;

thanks,

&=23160;

/hannes

&=23160;

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf=40swisscom.com wrote:

&=23160;

Dear lsr,<= /span>

&=23160;

I presented the following draft

&=23160;

Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP =46lo= w Information Export (IP=46IX)

&=23160;

at the spring working group at IET=46 108 yesterday

&=23160;

and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.

&=23160;

This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the= IANA IP=46IX registry for IS-IS, OPS=46v2 and OPS=46 v3 and segment rout= ing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.=

&=23160;

I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and ops= awg but also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are= related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

&=23160;

I am looking forward to your feedback and input.

&=23160;

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<= br /> Lsr mailing list
 Lsr=40= ietf.org
 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

&=23160;

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
spring mailing list
spring=40ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
--5f36ddba_3804823e_1640-- From nobody Fri Aug 14 20:20:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007413A0C30; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:20:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kg8gVP3OOMJj; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C3363A0C2D; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id k18so2112114uao.11; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:20:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FEp+R/JI1Bq3FuE2kCwbeGZrBFbemir6i9jKFH/ZyT4=; b=JyOAa71kSkgRu0nakqcBwO4WaGHt83SVedUbk35mDVzqUpoPGSQmlIDP0IGA0PN2zG UlcKja2riabuTZHQCfDchm2705PrsU21ZYqD8EamKIjXTAwxyrMyd3uivP4QWCbRezPM YC9M4vunUPqYrM6POuV8br+AKBTYo2OoGlHiIZTbxWPMgovYDyeoYtSCTnFhcQsMdg2g CF/drN9W9TIoMVEsmRW3WgqmECvgnxWptTEBxQ8J98MVSYiaS1M5ri5a+F7BI+a+h4vO 5bgzDlpXAdXVEyQaJmJ2MIpYbAfrI4Aal4c8so7lnGXLnAS6E7R+hckRk9z/fg+tWR6M 2HBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FEp+R/JI1Bq3FuE2kCwbeGZrBFbemir6i9jKFH/ZyT4=; b=o6/IL/58kDTsKapl0IjfXu0cwmanuAjojDRVjSOgNw1FdLTT4S0RXRxppu8RB0anYu Vn3z/L5Ud/V9VnEvtSlJ7JZeYTuz5ebAVlpyYZhHtzyNU98SodG5ZZJ1EbnHHegAkfJ1 KhZooxWpkCksAKb+mwuALOzpREBoecB2D2yczCHVGbSbk4ZSobrM7/FLMcpQMgTk/qEw 7BN6aM4YKVrQSrPmwSnvChbNRv/HNwB4IH43BUyItsNv5PYgwBKdzXiPzqC77bXFK/mz hLkAfDbdDGxMOTI217svbl7hwO1YoCWPYS3lgU/1ildvATLOOPq9L5lNH0eBfrzCCEbs J2pA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Sf+AIdWPdFKVQVBQYzUoxkG1qDE0zHKlDAgHuEXRRwOd4hZsL f/GnGY1vYAMQW76y9jcNUXE8YHlU9MYkBEW7lkA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzTjJazNjt4g9XJ+a9lZFon7hc8k4xLN3wccVvyIWSiJ+TrdSJI1xcoYQZqS5PS0OZx+YJmOhlgCSSbALF1P74= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:2704:: with SMTP id s4mr2858833uao.141.1597461607972; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:20:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <1d8fb113-41c8-46cc-bfa3-54c04d406142@Spark> In-Reply-To: <1d8fb113-41c8-46cc-bfa3-54c04d406142@Spark> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:19:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , SPRING WG , "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "hannes@gredler.at" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000af83ad05ace2035e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [spring] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 03:20:12 -0000 --000000000000af83ad05ace2035e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Kethan and Jeff. This draft is extending IPFIX defined in RFC 7011 7012 to support SR segments over IP export. Since SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data plane, why would the existing IPFIX RFCs also not support SR-MPLS without having to dig into IGP control plane extensions as from an IPFIX perspective the MPLS data plane is still the same and using the same 4 byte MPLS shim used by LDP. Gyan On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 2:54 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In general, I agree with what Ketan said, what=E2=80=99s important - it i= s the > value that is being used in forwarding, even if multiple control plane > entries exist, think about IGP migrations, or LDP to SR, where more than = 1 > protocol could be distributing the labels/SIDs.. I=E2=80=99m not sure the= FIB is > the right place to collect this data though, since most of meta-data has > already been lost (flattened FIB structures often contain bare minimum) a= nd > really heavily depends on the implementation. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote: > > > > > > > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > > > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > > > > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective= . > > > > > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would b= e > running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different > IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some > implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information is > not available therein. > > > > > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, > SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > > > > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed > to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in > some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast > SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure mo= re > get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an > Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this leve= l > of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analys= is > to perhaps consider a middle ground? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of* Thomas.Graf@swisscom.co= m > > > *Sent:* 31 July 2020 20:52 > > > *To:* hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hannes, > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it > for the next update... > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Hannes Gredler > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popu= lar in DC > deployments. > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow > Information Export (IPFIX) > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-inf= ormation-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA > IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID type= s > to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but > also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related > to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > Thomas Graf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > spring mailing list > > > spring@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000af83ad05ace2035e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree with Kethan and Jeff. =C2=A0
=

This draft is extending IPFIX= defined in RFC 7011 7012 to support SR segments over IP export.

Since SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data= plane, why would the existing IPFIX RFCs also not support SR-MPLS without = having to dig into IGP control plane extensions as from an IPFIX perspectiv= e the MPLS data plane is still the same and using the same 4 byte MPLS shim= used by LDP. =C2=A0

Gya= n=C2=A0

On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 2:54 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:












In general, I agree with = what Ketan said, what=E2=80=99s important - it is the value that is being u= sed in forwarding, even if multiple control plane entries exist, think abou= t IGP migrations, or LDP to SR, where more than 1 protocol could be distrib= uting the labels/SIDs.. I=E2=80=99m not sure the FIB is the right place to = collect this data though, since most of meta-data has already been lost (fl= attened FIB structures often contain bare minimum) and really heavily depen= ds on the implementation.=C2=A0







Cheers,

Jeff





= On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=3D40cisco.com@dm= arc.ietf.org>, wrote:






= < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >



=

=C2=A0



Hi Thomas/All,



=C2= =A0



I have reviewed the draf= t and would like to share a different perspective.



=C2=A0



What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployment= s would be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from dif= ferent IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some imple= mentation where the protocol does not matter and this information is not av= ailable therein.



=C2=A0



On some nodes, the same Prefix S= ID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?



=C2=A0



I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency = SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS La= bel Type.



=C2=A0

<= br>

This also takes away the need for the s= econd table that is being proposed to a large extent. For that table propos= al, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different betwee= n Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane el= ements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in dif= ferentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

=

=C2=A0



Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexit= y of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value = in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?



=C2=A0



<= span>Thanks,



Ketan

=C2=A0






From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com


Sent: 31 July= 2020 20:52


To: hannes@gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type






=C2=A0



Hi Hannes,


<= br>

=C2=A0



Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take i= t for the next update...



=C2=A0



Best Wishes



<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thomas=





=C2=A0





=C2=A0







From: Hannes Gredler <= hannes@gredler.at>


Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM


<= b>To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>


Cc= : lsr@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type







=C2=A0



Thomas,





=C2=A0







I have one comment/suggestion to Paragr= aph 4 (IANA Considerations).







<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0



<= br>


Please add = also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popular in DC dep= loyments.








=C2=A0

=





thanks,







=C2=A0






<= br>

/hannes









=C2=A0







On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wro= te:





=C2=A0







Dear lsr,


=




= =C2=A0






I presented the following dr= aft






=C2=A0







Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP= Flow Information Export (IPFIX)


=




https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04






=C2=A0







at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday









=C2=A0


<= br>




and= today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.







=C2=A0






This draft adds add= itional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-I= S, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insight= s into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

=









<= br>

I have been asked to not o= nly gather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls worki= ng groups since these code points are related to link state routing protoco= ls and mpls data plane.







=C2=A0







I am looking forward to your feedback a= nd input.





=

=C2=A0







Best Wishes

<= br>




Thomas Graf





_______________________________________________
=

Lsr mailing list
 Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/lsr






<= br>


=C2=A0<= /p>





____________________________________= ___________


spring mailing list


spring@ietf.org


https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring




=




_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list

Lsr@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/lsr

--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 50= 2-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


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boundary="_000_ZR0P278MB0122EAF02F60CF871971534489410ZR0P278MB0122CHEP_" Content-Language: en-US --_000_ZR0P278MB0122EAF02F60CF871971534489410ZR0P278MB0122CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_ZR0P278MB0122EAF02F60CF871971534489410ZR0P278MB0122CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ketan,

 

Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

 =

  • What or how= much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/p= rogrammed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Har= dly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the sa= me prefix from different IGPs.

 

As Jeff already pointed out. Mul= tiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks when migrations ar= e ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom wh= en we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key = point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enab= le the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considera= tion.

 

  • IPFIX may b= e picking this information from a FIB in some implementation where the prot= ocol does not matter and this information is not available therein.

 

I am not sure if you have seen t= he presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.

https://www.i= etf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-ty= pe-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

 

Slide 2 shows Cisco as example v= endor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is an open= ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.=

 

I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementa= tion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been= made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends = the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so w= hen OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX im= plementation can point to the right code point.

 

  • On some nod= es, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what wou= ld we use/show?

 =

In this case the = IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

 =

  • = For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possibl= e to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types= are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added.
    • =

 =

I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

 =

In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

 =

I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

 

Best wishes

Thomas

 

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@ci= sco.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hanne= s@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

< also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

 

Hi Thomas/All,

 

I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspec= tive.

 

What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what ma= tters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and= learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this in= formation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not mat= ter and this information is not available therein.

 

On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= – what would we use/show?

 

I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding S= ID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

 

This also takes away the need for the second table that is being prop= osed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and i= n some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control p= lane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value= in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

 

Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this = level of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow an= alysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Hannes,

 

Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

 =

Best Wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 

 

From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Thomas,

 

I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA C= onsiderations).

 

Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it= ’s quite popular in DC deployments.

 

thanks,

 

/hannes

 

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

 

Dear lsr,

 

I presented the following draft=

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

 

and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

 

This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

 

I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

 

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org<= /a>
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

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--_000_ZR0P278MB0122B92247AF355C4662219089410ZR0P278MB0122CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff, Thanks a lot for the review and feedback. Please refer to my feedback to Ketan where elaborated more about why for la= bel protocol migrations IE 46 is useful. * I'm not sure the FIB is the right place to collect this data though, = since most of meta-data has already been lost (flattened FIB structures oft= en contain bare minimum) and really heavily depends on the implementation. I quote from the previous feedback to Ketan: I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. I hope this makes sense. Looking forward to your feedback. Best Wishes Thomas From: Jeff Tantsura Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 8:54 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; hannes@gredler.at;= Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG Subject: Re: [spring] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type In general, I agree with what Ketan said, what's important - it is the valu= e that is being used in forwarding, even if multiple control plane entries = exist, think about IGP migrations, or LDP to SR, where more than 1 protocol= could be distributing the labels/SIDs. I'm not sure the FIB is the right p= lace to collect this data though, since most of meta-data has already been = lost (flattened FIB structures often contain bare minimum) and really heavi= ly depends on the implementation. Cheers, Jeff On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >, wrote: < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update... Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring --_000_ZR0P278MB0122B92247AF355C4662219089410ZR0P278MB0122CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks a lot for = the review and feedback.

 =

Please refer to m= y feedback to Ketan where elaborated more about why for label protocol migr= ations IE 46 is useful.

 =

  • I’m not sure the FIB is the right place to= collect this data though, since most of meta-data has already been lost (f= lattened FIB structures often contain bare minimum) and really heavily depends on the implementation. <= /li>

 =

I quote from the = previous feedback to Ketan:

 =

I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

https://www.i= etf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-ty= pe-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

 

Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified.

 =

I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right co= de point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type ide= ntifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-= type just extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/= ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX implementation can p= oint to the right code point.

 =

I hope this makes= sense. Looking forward to your feedback.

 =

Best Wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 

From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 8:54 PM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hanne= s@gredler.at; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

In general, I agree with what Ketan said, what’= ;s important - it is the value that is being used in forwarding, even if mu= ltiple control plane entries exist, think about IGP migrations, or LDP to S= R, where more than 1 protocol could be distributing the labels/SIDs. I’m not sure the FIB is the right place to collect = this data though, since most of meta-data has already been lost (flattened = FIB structures often contain bare minimum) and really heavily depends on th= e implementation. 

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Aug 14, 2020, 10:36 AM -0700, Ketan Talaulikar (k= etant) <ketant=3D= 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

< also copying Sprin= g WG for their review/inputs >

 

Hi Thomas/All,

 

I have reviewed the dra= ft and would like to share a different perspective.

 

What or how much value = be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on= a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deplo= yments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix fro= m different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some = implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available therein.=

 

On some nodes, the same= Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/sh= ow?

 

I would recommend using= SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so= on … for the MPLS Label Type.

 

This also takes away th= e need for the second table that is being proposed to a large extent. For t= hat table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and An= ycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sur= e more get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between say= an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

 

Could we evaluate the i= mplementation overhead and complexity of this level of categorization/infor= mation in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

 

Thanks,

Ketan=

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type<= /o:p>

 

Hi Hannes,

 

Thanks a lot for the feedback. = Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update...

 

Best Wishes

Thomas

 

 

From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type<= /o:p>

 

Thomas,

 

I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations)= .

 

Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite= popular in DC deployments.

 

thanks,

 

/hannes

 

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wr= ote:

 

Dear lsr,

 

I presented the following draft

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Inf= ormation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

at the spring working group at IETF 108 yeste= rday

 

and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption= .

 

This draft adds additional segment routing co= de points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights = into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

I have been asked to not only gather feedback= from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to link state routing p= rotocols and mpls data plane.

 

I am looking forward to your feedback and inp= ut.

 

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org<= /a>
https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

_______________________________________________
spring mailing list
spring@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/spring

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7b4ba8b7-9e23-49d7-b07e-08d840d94f62 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Aug 2020 05:08:55.3797 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: EtwGqiaTxrc8JdKNZaqZK6ibzpkuNGNEgi+kuKkV2jOvaG/Amz+0e5VmyoqQ+/RtsDrl7xECa1gqxIvMozYBrw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR11MB3086 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 05:09:04 -0000 --_000_SA0PR11MB45763F383D707E5B6873963DC1410SA0PR11MB4576namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_SA0PR11MB45763F383D707E5B6873963DC1410SA0PR11MB4576namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Thomas= ,

&nbs= p;

I should = have been more clear in my email.

&nbs= p;

The propo= sal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identif= ier registry:

  • SR Prefix SID
  • SR Adjacency SID=
  • SR = Binding SID
  • SR BGP Peering SID
  • … and so on

&nbs= p;

This help= s identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiati= ng them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

&nbs= p;

And my qu= estions were:

  1. What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?
  2. Wha= t value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN A= djacency SID?

&nbs= p;

I am aski= ng for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the p= roposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) t= hat they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

&nbs= p;

Thanks,

Ketan

&nbs= p;

From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredl= er.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Ketan,

 =

Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

 =

  • What or how much value be = there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a = node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments w= ould be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differ= ent IGPs.

&nbs= p;

As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swissc= om when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The= key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we= enable the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the consi= deration.

&nbs= p;

  • IPFIX may be picking this = information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not m= atter and this information is not available therein.

&nbs= p;

I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

https://www.ietf.org/proce= edings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-informatio= n-in-ipfix-00.pdf

&nbs= p;

Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.

 =

I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an I= PFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the de= cision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point.

&nbs= p;

  • On some nodes, the same Pr= efix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?=

 

In this case the IE 46 shows the= label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

 

  • For that table = proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different = between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added.

 =

I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

 =

In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

 =

I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

 =

Best wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 =

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

< also= copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

&nbs= p;

Hi Thomas= /All,

&nbs= p;

I have re= viewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.

&nbs= p;

What or h= ow much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled= /programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is mo= re important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same = prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FI= B in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inform= ation is not available therein.

&nbs= p;

On some n= odes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what w= ould we use/show?

&nbs= p;

I would r= ecommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peer= ing SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

&nbs= p;

This also= takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed to a large= extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases no= t possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements a= nd we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in differentia= tion between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?<= /p>

&nbs= p;

Could we = evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level of catego= rization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perha= ps consider a middle ground?

&nbs= p;

Thanks,

Ketan

&nbs= p;

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Hannes,

 =

Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

 =

Best Wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 

 =

From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Thomas,

 

I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

 

Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

 

thanks,

 

/hannes

=  

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

 

Dear lsr,

 

I presented the following draft=

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

 

and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

 

This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

 

I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

 

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

___________________________________= ____________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

--_000_SA0PR11MB45763F383D707E5B6873963DC1410SA0PR11MB4576namp_-- From nobody Fri Aug 14 23:01:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67213A044F; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EMcRfxT-hdk2; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FA863A07F9; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id q13so5737744vsn.9; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:01:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jyc84fiTdO8/jRNPz5IVO6+yNwzxqZAuhRrGDM1VBPo=; b=JCPiz5sDABNh8xRNcxwAseW8ADybnGqqqQLUsrpTndwun/MVl31T7SyktYSQliGvSJ FM6p24etXjoEIi5U6Tx3Uy7fmUNbLzDr7YG4hTDFoiz5E7QxuTdlslpXZmTM7UsPO5Zp Amr8s08/OR1lbXKPnNCP8VZvjhL9q0p4fsH44o/CSQ1NWqvFViDJCCwX5cReDZQFBWYU eBAaP2kUyEV2Ekk6hL8GGJyAjt0YaqgsoKKu2NbVDu6LRvuMp+X4FGnOsQlWvygUGvsB L+cnC8e+qWK4HMbBt83STT0r1DvdPsFCHeVuFJJoZIzBvJTQvesMahdUJBvUoAVupYJB pASw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jyc84fiTdO8/jRNPz5IVO6+yNwzxqZAuhRrGDM1VBPo=; b=Ow8kRz69k5wMdF1x/oOa94415oNEye4E7t4shKhGmgjPFKoq6EccuVqivG1MOhI/Pk vToEQWvxgE86KoEiIUmJwPrc0XF/k6M8yQeos9kFaExBPgr5o4yjPjTzD7KnT5BwdUny JK2R9GbISi1Z24y2ebhv4u8tkg5DSVWn1qZYJg4mGbEzcHsZKe3Y8ylY+yGT+t0g3y+U gn7KopIBd5YyMaGZVOeaZ2Q/Wa3xLNrBdU24yERArg9lQ7bhuVRteokZgqZHwEo7y2I8 9cEEWdbbKcl7Db5lNTuZ/WE8I0EVO1PWZPw/liCbBo8pYQ0FR6ArfNgDbmtoFRJblEvk dh1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532eMnR9PNtIgpARG6xDOJybtOIItZw+l9aahneTRjkYnaS9Cl1Z dix4WSqdXcRaAr6m6piXiQo7KCdjvl661GTeUzc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzNLXw0PIbGmguBCf0pqb1hYO6D1EbnanHOpp6zUpwUUmvpQ49dfcymbmyC/htsw/JdH70GN6OiDcVRZDUJBec= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f941:: with SMTP id u1mr3553088vsq.128.1597471267052; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 23:01:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <2022615026.3001869.1597464620979@ss002889> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 02:00:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "hannes@gredler.at" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000695ff105ace443c3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:01:12 -0000 --000000000000695ff105ace443c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ketan >From an operations perspective at the end of the day the job of IPFIX is to support the various data plane encapsulation types so that the flow graph and fields flow data records can be constructed. So here as long as you are able to capture the flow records, and record the flows over the SR-MPLS data plane then to that end whatever is required to meet that objective to construct capture and record all flows. So that being said I think as long as the data plane encapsulation is captured and supported for SR-MPLS label SID SRGB is supported then I think the objective of the draft is solved. I don=E2=80=99t think adding control= plane complexity into the flow records is necessary to accomplish the objective. I see the point of being able to differentiate topmost label underlay of MPLS label or TE from SR-MPLS. That is as far as you need to go are my thoughts. Kind Regards Gyan On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 1:09 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > > > I should have been more clear in my email. > > > > > > The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label > type identifier registry: > > > > > > - SR Prefix SID > - SR Adjacency SID > - SR Binding SID > - SR BGP Peering SID > - =E2=80=A6 and so on > > > > > > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > And my questions were: > > > > > > 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was > being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > > 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID > or a LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > > I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads > with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefi= t > (if any) that they provide for the flow analysis > > and monitoring. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > > > *Sent:* 15 August 2020 09:40 > > > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > Thank you very much for the review and feedback. > > > > > > > > > - What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix > SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80= =93 what matters > > and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any > deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same > prefix from different IGPs. > > > > > > > > As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used i= n > networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating > > from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at > Swisscom when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor > implementations. The key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Lab= el > Type identifiers we enable the possibility to verify > > the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the > consideration. > > > > > > > > > - IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some > implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information= is > not available > > therein. > > > > > > > I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and > SPRING. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-m= pls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label > Type identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has > > been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. > > > > > > I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to > implement IE 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE regi= stry. > > The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the > right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Labe= l > Type identifier > > make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > just extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol > code points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is > supported, the IPFIX implementation can point > > to the right code point. > > > > > > > > > - On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and > IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show? > > > > > > > In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program > the FIB. > > > > > > > > > > - > > For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not > possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of > these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more > > get added. > > > > > > > I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the > architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilitie= s > > are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what > make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. > This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is > possible what makes sense. I would be interested > > to get your and also Jeff's feedback. > > > > > > In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefi= t > of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This > > should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which > label protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SI= D > type to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed. > > > > > > > I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > > > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > > > > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective= . > > > > > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly > > any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same > prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a > FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this > information is not available therein. > > > > > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, > SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > > > > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed > to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in > some cases not possible to different between Prefix > > and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements > and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in > differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this leve= l > of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analys= is > to perhaps consider a middle ground? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr > > *On Behalf Of *Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > *Sent:* 31 July 2020 20:52 > > > *To:* hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hannes, > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it > for the next update... > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Hannes Gredler > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popu= lar in DC > deployments. > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow > Information Export (IPFIX) > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-inf= ormation-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA > IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID type= s > to gain > > further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but > also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related > to link > > state routing protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > Thomas Graf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Lsr mailing list > > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000695ff105ace443c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ketan=C2=A0

From an operations perspective at the end of the day t= he job of IPFIX is to support the various data plane encapsulation types so= that the flow graph and fields flow data records can be constructed. =C2= =A0

So here as long as y= ou are able to capture the flow records, and record the flows over the SR-M= PLS data plane then to that end whatever is required to meet that objective= to construct capture and record all flows. =C2=A0
<= br>
So that being said I think as long as the data p= lane encapsulation is captured and supported for SR-MPLS label SID SRGB is = supported then I think the objective of the draft is solved.=C2=A0 I don=E2= =80=99t think adding control plane complexity into the flow records is nece= ssary to accomplish the objective.

I see the point of being able to differentiate topmost label und= erlay of MPLS label or TE from SR-MPLS. =C2=A0

<= /div>
That is as far as you need to go are my thoughts.

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan=C2=A0
=C2=A0

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 1:09 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &= lt;ketant=3D40cisco.com@dmarc= .ietf.org> wrote:


=













Hi Thomas= ,



=C2= =A0



I should have bee= n more clear in my email.



=C2=A0



<= span>The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Labe= l type identifier registry:





  • SR = Prefix SID
  • SR = Adjacency SID
  • = SR Binding SID
  • SR BGP Peering SID
  • = =E2=80=A6 and so on


=C2=A0



This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as w= ell as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

=C2=A0


And my questions were:<= /p>



  1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis i= f the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

    =
  2. What value is provided = for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?=


=C2=A0<= u>



I am asking for WG to= weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the proposed deta= ils of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) that they pro= vide for the flow analysis

and monitoring.

=

=C2=A0


Thanks,



Ketan



=C2=A0






<= br>

From: = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>




= Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40


To: Ketan Talaulikar (keta= nt) <ketant@cisco.= com>; hannes@= gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org


Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf= -ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type







=C2=A0



Hi Ketan,



= =C2=A0



Thank you very much for the review and feedback.



=C2=A0





  • What or how m= uch value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/pro= grammed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matters

    and= is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would= be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different = IGPs.



= =C2=A0



As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP label= ling protocols are used =C2=A0in networks when migrations are ongoing. Usua= lly in a life cycle. Migrating

from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TL= V. This is/was also the case at Swisscom when we first discovered this shor= tcoming in vendor implementations. The key point here, with these additiona= l IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enable the possibility to verify
=
the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the c= onsideration.



= =C2=A0





  • IPFIX may be picking thi= s information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not= matter and this information is not available

    therein.


=C2=A0=



https:= //www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-l= abel-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf



<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0



Slide 2 shows Cisco as ex= ample vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is = an open ddts where vendor feasibility has

been clarified. Ping me o= ff the list when you like to have more details.


=C2= =A0



I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable= to implement IE 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE re= gistry.

The IE registry en= ables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With = RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier

= make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point

to the right code point.



=C2=A0





  • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be lear= nt via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?


=C2= =A0



In = this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the = FIB.



=C2=A0






  • For that table proposal, it is very d= ifficult and in some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Nod= e and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we ca= n be sure more

    get added.


    • = =C2=A0



    I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to under= stand the architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring cap= abilities

    are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is p= ossible, what make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in= the draft. This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups= what is possible what makes sense. I would be interested

    to get yo= ur and also Jeff's feedback.



    =C2=A0



    In = above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of = visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This

    shoul= d be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label pro= tocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to f= urther understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

    =



    =C2=A0



    I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward= for reply.



    =C2=A0



    Best wishes=



    =C2=A0






    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>


    <= br>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM


    To: G= raf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>;

    hannes@gredler.at


    Cc:= lsr@ietf.org; SP= RING WG <spring@iet= f.org>


    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-s= r-label-type







    =C2=A0


    < also copying Spring WG for their re= view/inputs >



    =C2=A0



    Hi T= homas/All,



    = =C2=A0



    I have rev= iewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.<= /u>



    =C2=A0



    What or how much value be there= on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node = via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matters and is more important is that= it is a Prefix SID. Hardly

    any deployments would be running multip= le protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be= picking this information from a FIB in some implementation where the proto= col does not matter and this information is not available therein.



    =C2=A0



    On some nodes, the same Prefi= x SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?<= u>



    =C2=A0<= u>



    I would recommend usi= ng SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and = so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type.



    =C2=A0



    This also takes away the need for the second table tha= t is being proposed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very = difficult and in some cases not possible to different between Prefix
    and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements = and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in differenti= ation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?



    =C2=A0

    =

    Could we evaluate the implementation o= verhead and complexity of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX= against their value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?<= u>



    =C2=A0<= u>



    Thanks,=



    Ketan<= /p>

    =C2=A0


    =




    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>

    O= n Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com


    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52<= br>

    To: hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org


    Subject: Re: [Lsr] = draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type



    =



    =C2=A0


    Hi Hannes,



    =C2=A0



    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes = completely sense. Will take it for the next update...<= /p>

    =C2=A0



    Best Wishes



    Thomas

    <= br>


    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =




    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>



    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM


    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org

    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type







    =C2=A0



    Thomas,




    =

    =C2=A0=







    I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).=







    =C2=A0



    <= br>


    Please add = also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popular in DC dep= loyments.









    =C2=A0






    thanks,<= /p>





    =C2=A0







    /hannes

    <= br>






    =C2=A0<= /p>


    <= br>


    On 28.07.2020, = at 10:11,
    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com     wrote:





    =C2=A0







    Dear lsr,





    =C2=A0







    I pre= sented the following draft=







    =C2=A0



    =




    Expo= rt of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Ex= port (IPFIX)









    <= span lang=3D"DE-CH" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet M= S",sans-serif">=C2=A0=







    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday









    =C2=A0







    and t= oday at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.







    =C2=A0







    This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in th= e IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID= types to gain

    further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.<= /span>





    <= div>

    =C2=A0







    =

    I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link

    state routing prot= ocols and mpls data plane.    =







    =C2=A0



    =




    I am= looking forward to your feedback and input.=







    =C2=A0<= /span>







    Best Wishes<= /p>





    Thomas Graf


    =


    _________________= ______________________________


    Lsr mailing list


    Lsr@ietf.org


    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr








    =C2=A0











_= ______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list
<= br>Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--

=

Gyan Mishra<= /p>

Network Solution= s Architect= =C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Colum= bia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


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boundary="_000_ZRAP278MB012599E0B7C0A68BDE83623B89410ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_" Content-Language: en-US --_000_ZRAP278MB012599E0B7C0A68BDE83623B89410ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels. With IP= FIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to ana= lyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN= Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is the= topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix S= ID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjac= ency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, Forward= ingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead to the d= rop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing ne= tworks more efficiently and quickly. ? am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_ZRAP278MB012599E0B7C0A68BDE83623B89410ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ketan,

 

  • This helps = identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating= them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

 =

To be precise, th= e existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not= the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

 

  • What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via= OSPF or ISIS?

 

It is important t= o distinguish between intend and result.

 

If you migrate fr= om one label distribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to= understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or = not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic an= d not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

 

  • What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency= SID?

 =

Quote from RFC840= 2. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". = Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels= . With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabli= ng to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacenc= y SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the ad= jacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that ma= kes much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chos= en to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that deci= sion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in = segment routing networks more efficiently and quickly.

 =

&Osla= sh;  am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities

 =

For the WG and me= , I would be important if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementa= tion complexities. I would like to have a better understanding where your f= ear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

 =

Best wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 =

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hanne= s@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Thomas,

 

I should have been more clear in my email.

 

The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Lab= el type identifier registry:

  • SR Prefix S= ID
  • SR Adjacency SID
  • SR Binding SID<= /li>
  • SR BGP = Peering SID
  • … and so on

 

This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

 

And my questions were:

  1. What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via= OSPF or ISIS?
  2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency= SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

 

I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overh= eads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the ben= efit (if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Ketan,

 

Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

 =

  • What or how= much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/p= rogrammed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Har= dly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the sa= me prefix from different IGPs.

 

As Jeff already pointed out. Mul= tiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks when migrations ar= e ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom wh= en we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key = point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enab= le the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considera= tion.

 

  • IPFIX may b= e picking this information from a FIB in some implementation where the prot= ocol does not matter and this information is not available therein.

 

I am not sure if you have seen t= he presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.

https://www.ietf.org/p= roceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-inform= ation-in-ipfix-00.pdf

 

Slide 2 shows Cisco as example v= endor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is an open= ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.=

 

I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementa= tion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been= made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends = the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so w= hen OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX im= plementation can point to the right code point.

 

  • On some nod= es, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what wou= ld we use/show?

 =

In this case the = IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

 =

  • = For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possibl= e to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types= are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added.
    • =

 =

I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

 =

In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

 =

I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

 

Best wishes

Thomas

 

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

< also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

 

Hi Thomas/All,

 

I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspec= tive.

 

What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what ma= tters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and= learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this in= formation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not mat= ter and this information is not available therein.

 

On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= – what would we use/show?

 

I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding S= ID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

 

This also takes away the need for the second table that is being prop= osed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and i= n some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control p= lane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value= in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

 

Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this = level of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow an= alysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
To: hannes@gredler.at
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Hi Hannes,

 

Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

 =

Best Wishes<= /o:p>

Thomas=

 

 

From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

Thomas,

 

I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA C= onsiderations).

 

Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it= ’s quite popular in DC deployments.

 

thanks,

 

/hannes

 

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

 

Dear lsr,

 

I presented the following draft=

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

 

and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

 

This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

 

I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

 

Best Wishes

Thomas Graf

_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org<= /a>
https= ://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

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AOAM530m6n6UWbeX+5IwbkCO0KvoBx0+CioRynjaDfyT4uek8+D97AvA 6ccGUO4zSNqlQOUcG9rDiuRkZHw3PzrX3/u5r7i6f3/6EsJxMg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwkUoap0Scv5KgOIiLa3bNGwBP2Ad0rKPrCpqwVUO2Zgb4aAPTlh+DXCtrecOSIE6p/5CEU/M6VAmWu2Mue2x8= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:5fcf:: with SMTP id t198mr4579695vkb.32.1597519570013; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 12:26:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <2022615026.3001869.1597464620979@ss002889> <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> In-Reply-To: <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 15:25:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Cc: hannes@gredler.at, ketant@cisco.com, lsr@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007e1a4505acef82bb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 19:26:14 -0000 --0000000000007e1a4505acef82bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas Responses in-line On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, - This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. - What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context. Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. With your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable departure I think from what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX. > > > > > > > > - What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID > or a LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > > Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing > paradigm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding > > decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional > labels.. With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFI= X. > Enabling to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " > Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not > > very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the > adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes mu= ch > more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to > forward the packet instead of a prefix. > > If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that > decision lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issu= es > in segment routing networks more efficiently and quickly. > > > > > > =C3=98 > > am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities > > > > > > For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed > what you mean with > > implementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding > where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could > differentiate between > > MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was > coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used. > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > > > I should have been more clear in my email. > > > > > > The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label > type identifier registry: > > > > > > - SR Prefix SID > - SR Adjacency SID > - SR Binding SID > - SR BGP Peering SID > - =E2=80=A6 and so on > > > > > > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > And my questions were: > > > > > > 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was > being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > > 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID > or a LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > > I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads > with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefi= t > (if any) that they provide for the > > flow analysis and monitoring. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > > > *Sent:* 15 August 2020 09:40 > > > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; > > spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > Thank you very much for the review and feedback. > > > > > > > > > - What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix > SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS > > =E2=80=93 what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SI= D. > Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learnin= g the > same prefix from different IGPs. > > > > > > > > As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used i= n > networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating > from > > LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom > when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The > key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers w= e > enable the possibility to verify the > > label protocol migration without taking the label value into the > consideration. > > > > > > > > > - IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some > implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information > > is not available therein. > > > > > > > I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and > SPRING. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-m= pls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label > Type identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been > clarified. > > Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. > > > > > > I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to > implement IE 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE regi= stry. > > The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the > right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Labe= l > Type identifier make sense > > and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends > the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so > when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX > implementation can point to the right > > code point. > > > > > > > > > - On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and > IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show? > > > > > > > In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program > the FIB. > > > > > > > > > > - > > For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not > possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of > these types are control plane elements and we can > > be sure more get added. > > > > > > > I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the > architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilitie= s > > are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what > make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. > This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is > possible what makes sense. I would be interested > > to get your and also Jeff's feedback. > > > > > > In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefi= t > of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This > > should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which > label protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SI= D > type to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed. > > > > > > > I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > > > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > > > > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective= . > > > > > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important is that it is a > > Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols an= d > learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this > information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not > matter and this information is not > > available therein. > > > > > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, > SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > > > > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed > to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in > some cases not possible to different > > between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control > plane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much > value in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency S= ID? > > > > > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this leve= l > of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analys= is > to perhaps consider a middle ground? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr > > *On Behalf Of *Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > *Sent:* 31 July 2020 20:52 > > > *To:* hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hannes, > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it > for the next update... > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Hannes Gredler > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popu= lar in DC > deployments. > > > > > > > https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow > Information Export (IPFIX) > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-inf= ormation-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA > IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID type= s > to gain > > further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but > also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related > to link > > state routing protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > Thomas Graf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OPSAWG mailing list > > OPSAWG@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000007e1a4505acef82bb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Thomas=C2=A0

Responses in-line=C2=A0

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com> wrote:














<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-se= rif;color:#44546a">Hi Ketan,



=C2=A0





  • <= span lang=3D"EN-IN">This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment t= ypes as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.<= /span>


=C2=A0



To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type = identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE= being proposed.


=C2=A0



  • What value is provided for IPFIX analy= sis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?



=C2=A0



It is important to distinguish between intend and = result.



=C2=A0



If you migrate from one label distribution= protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if the da= ta plane is still forwarding

packets with the label distribution pr= otocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 enables that by looking at th= e result of the forwarded traffic and not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3= ,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3,

describes the cont= ext.


Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow ana= lysis and to that end all that was required is support of the data plane en= capsulation.=C2=A0 With your proposed SR support idea you are really transf= orming the IPFIX to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level sole= ly, but now also to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding.=C2=A0 T= hat is a considerable departure I think from what IPFIX was intended.=C2=A0= =C2=A0

I am not sure we = want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX.

=C2=A0=




  • What value is provided= for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?


=C2=A0



Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Rou= ting (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". Means that not the r= outing protocol does all the forwarding

decisions, the node can cha= nge the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. With IPFIX SrSidType we a= re able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the result of= this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SI= D" is not

very useful because the difference of the two is the= topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Pre= fix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a partic= ular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix.

= If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that deci= sion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in = segment routing networks more efficiently and quickly.=



=C2=A0



=C3=98=C2=A0

am asking for WG to weigh the implementati= on complexities



=C2=A0



For the WG and me, I would be important if you can desc= ribe more detailed what you mean with

im= plementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding wher= e your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate b= etween

MPLS Label Type ide= ntifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSi= dType which SID type was used.

=


=C2=A0<= /p>

Best w= ishes



Thomas



=C2=A0

<= br>


=C2=A0


Hi Thomas,



=C2=A0<= /u>



I should = have been more clear in my email.



=C2=A0



=

The proposal/suggestion is to a= dd the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:





    =
  • SR Prefix SID<= /u>
  • SR Adjace= ncy SID
  • SR Binding SID
  • SR BGP Peering SID
  • =E2=80=A6 and so on


<= u>=C2=A0



This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well = as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.


=C2=A0



And my questions w= ere:





  1. Wh= at value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being sign= alled via OSPF or ISIS?

  2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis = if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?
    3. =


=C2=A0



I am askin= g for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the pr= oposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) th= at they provide for the

flow analysis and monitoring.=



=C2= =A0



Th= anks,



Ketan



=C2=A0





=

From:

Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>



Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40


To: Ketan Tal= aulikar (ketant) <= ketant@cisco.com>;

hannes@gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org;

spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org


Subjec= t: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type<= /p>





=C2=A0



Hi Ketan,



=C2=A0



Thank you very much for the = review and feedback.



=C2=A0



=


  • What or how much value be there on determining w= hether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3= /ISIS

    =E2=80=93 what matters and is more important is that it is a = Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and = learning the same prefix from different IGPs.

    <= /li>


=C2=A0<= u>



As Jeff= already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used =C2=A0in ne= tworks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from=

LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swi= sscom when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. = The key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers= we enable the possibility to verify the

label protocol migration w= ithout taking the label value into the consideration.<= /p>

=C2=A0=





  • IPFIX may be picking this inf= ormation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matt= er and this information

    is not available therein.


=C2= =A0



I a= m not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRI= NG.



https= ://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-= label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf



=

=C2=A0

=

Slide 2 shows Cisco as e= xample vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is= an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified.

Ping me = off the list when you like to have more details.


=C2=A0



I do= understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE= 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry.

<= /span>The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementat= ion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been = made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense

and can be implemen= ted. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends the IE 46 registry w= ith the Segment Routing label protocol code points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/IS= IS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX implementation can poi= nt to the right

code point.



=C2=A0




  • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learn= t via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?


=C2=A0



In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol wh= ich was used to program the FIB.



=C2=A0







  • For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in = some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SI= D. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can

    be sur= e more get added.


    • = =C2=A0



    I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to under= stand the architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring cap= abilities

    are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is p= ossible, what make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in= the draft. This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups= what is possible what makes sense. I would be interested

    to get yo= ur and also Jeff's feedback.



    =C2=A0



    In = above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of = visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This

    shoul= d be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label pro= tocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to f= urther understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

    =



    =C2=A0



    I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward= for reply.



    =C2=A0



    <= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-se= rif;color:#44546a">Best wishes



    Thomas



    =C2=A0






    From: Ketan T= alaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>




    Sent: Friday, August 1= 4, 2020 7:35 PM


    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom= .com>;

    hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>


    Subject= : RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type


    <= br>




    =C2=A0<= /p>

    < also copying Sp= ring WG for their review/inputs >



    =C2=A0


    Hi Thomas/All,<= /span>



    =C2=A0=



    I hav= e reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.



    <= /u>=C2=A0



    What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID = was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what ma= tters and is more important is that it is a

    Prefix SID. Hardly any = deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefi= x from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in = some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information= is not

    available therein.



    =C2=A0



    =

    On some nodes, the same Prefix = SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?=



    <= u>=C2=A0



    I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding = SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type.=



    =C2=A0



    This also takes away the need for the second table that is being propose= d to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in s= ome cases not possible to different

    between Prefix and Node and Any= cast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure= more get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between say = an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?



    =C2=A0


    Could we evaluate the impl= ementation overhead and complexity of this level of categorization/informat= ion in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a mid= dle ground?



    =C2=A0



    = Thanks,



    Ketan



    =C2=A0






    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>

    On B= ehalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com


    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    =

    To: h= annes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org


    Subject: Re: [Lsr] dra= ft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type






    =C2= =A0



    Hi = Hannes,



    =C2=A0



    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes co= mpletely sense. Will take it for the next update...

    = =C2=A0



    Best Wishes



    Thomas




    =C2=A0=





    =C2=A0







    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal">From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>




    Sent: Wednesday= , July 29, 2020 9:31 AM


    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <= Thomas.Graf@s= wisscom.com>


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org


    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draf= t-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type




    =


    =C2=A0



    Thomas,





    =C2=A0







    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Co= nsiderations).







    =C2=A0







    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it= =E2=80=99s quite popular in DC deployments.



    =





=C2=A0







thanks,<= u>







= =C2=A0







/hannes








=C2=A0=



=



On 28.07.2020, at 10:11,

Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com wrote:





=C2=A0







Dear lsr,






=C2=A0<= /p>





I presented the following draft







=C2=A0







Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Inform= ation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)






<= div>

=C2=A0






at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday

=







=C2=A0







and today at OPSAWG where I call for= adoption.







=C2=A0


<= br>




T= his draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX= registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to ga= in

further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.







=C2=A0





<= br>

I have been asked to not= only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls wor= king groups since these code points are related to link

state routi= ng protocols and mpls data plane.






=C2=A0=







I am looking forward to your feedback and input.







=C2=A0






Best Wishes







Thomas Graf



<= br>

___________________________________________= ____


Lsr mailing list


Lsr@ietf.org

=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<= /u>









=C2=A0






=




_______________________________________________
OPSAWG mailing list

OPSAWG@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg



--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


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boundary="_000_ZRAP278MB01257142287FC55DC8990AFC895E0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_" Content-Language: en-US --_000_ZRAP278MB01257142287FC55DC8990AFC895E0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gyan, Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that = end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. With= your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be = used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to ana= lyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable depart= ure I think from what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to add tha= t layer of complexity into IPFIX. Thomas> I have seen your feedback to Tarek and was puzzled about your remar= k about data plane encapsulation and IPFIX. I think you have a limited pict= ure for what IPFIX has been intended and being used. I do not want to lectu= re, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflow and IPFIX. = At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic for BGP contro= l-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix attribute. Thes= e helped to account traffic in shared enviroments. Later also for datacente= rs. These was and is always in conjunction with the encapsulated header met= rics of forwarded traffic and device dimensions such as ingress interface, = egress interface, vrf id and vrf name. In order to have a proper picture ab= out the forwarding plane, and to enable data correlation, key fields from o= ther perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-plane, device) are necessary t= o enable data correlation with other protocols such as BMP and YANG. Thomas> Going back to the initial conversation. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5102#section-7.2 For ensuring extensibility of this information, IANA has created a new registry for MPLS label types and filled it with the initial list from the description Information Element #46, mplsTopLabelType. Thomas> When IPFIX was specified, it has been defined in mind that other MP= LS label protocols will be developed in the future. Which is the case with = RFC 8665, 8666, 8667 and 8669. All adding TLV's to carry segment routing SI= D's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors implemented I= E46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label protocol was IS-IS = SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptable. When new protocols= are developed, we at IETF must ensure that they can be properly monitored.= With IPFIX we have the proper protocol to do that. Even without modificati= ons as section 4 in draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting mentioned: https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#section-4 Thomas> You have been referring to complexity. One of the key objectives of= SR-MPLS was that it does not much change in the MPLS data plane. You need = to explain on this WG how SR differs from other MPLS label protocols in ter= ms of RIB/FIB. And then from there why an implementation would be difficult= . That's the discussion I am looking forward to. Best wishes Thomas From: Gyan Mishra Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; spr= ing@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas Responses in-line On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM > wrote: Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or n= ot. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and= not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context. Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that = end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. With= your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be = used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to ana= lyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable depart= ure I think from what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.= . With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabli= ng to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID= or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the adj= acency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much mo= re sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forwa= rd the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decis= ion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in s= egment routing networks more efficiently and quickly. > am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding wh= ere your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate= between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was c= oming from and SrSidType which SID type was used. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any= deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same pref= ix from different IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom whe= n we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key p= oint here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enabl= e the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considerat= ion. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right= code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type = identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends t= he IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so wh= en OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX imp= lementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possibl= e to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types= are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make= sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This w= ith the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible = what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which labe= l protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type= to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and = learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this inf= ormation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matt= er and this information is not available therein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value = in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update... Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg -- [http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email] Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike Silver Spring, MD --_000_ZRAP278MB01257142287FC55DC8990AFC895E0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --_000_ZRAP278MB01257142287FC55DC8990AFC895E0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_-- ------=_Part_1311953_1608935745.1597562009047 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s; smime-type=signed-data Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCAMIIG 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<1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <2022615026.3001869.1597464620979@ss002889> <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> <1180087721.1311955.1597562009048@ss007564> In-Reply-To: <1180087721.1311955.1597562009048@ss007564> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 16:39:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Cc: hannes@gredler.at, ketant@cisco.com, lsr@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ae49e05ad04a7de" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:39:50 -0000 --0000000000005ae49e05ad04a7de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am well aware of the origins and history behind IPFIX and Neflow and use with BGP monitoring. I was not aware of IE 46 and how that was being leveraged to support SR IGP extensions sid types. After reviewing your IPFIX slides related to IE 46 registry for mplsTopLabelType and this drafts solution to extend the IE 46 registry with SR and now requiring new IGP codepoints to be allocated. You had given an example in the LDP interworking example or others that with this new IGP codepoint in case of multiple control planes present such as both LDP and SR that with IPFIX and with the new IGP codepoint allocations for each IGP type that you can see the forwarding resulting FIB entry. I can see that as a benefit for monitoring telemetry In-line below addresses complexity of extending IE46 for SR support. On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 3:13 AM wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Gyan, > > > > > > Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to tha= t > end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. Wi= th > your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX > > to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now als= o > to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerabl= e > departure I think from what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to > add that layer of complexity into > > IPFIX. > > > > > > Thomas> I have seen your feedback to Tarek and was puzzled about your > remark about data plane encapsulation and IPFIX. I think you have a limit= ed > picture for what IPFIX has been intended and being used. I do not want > > to lecture, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflow > and IPFIX. At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic f= or > BGP control-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix > attribute. These helped to account traffic > > in shared enviroments. Later also for datacenters. These was and is alway= s > in conjunction with the encapsulated header metrics of forwarded traffic > and device dimensions such as ingress interface, egress interface, vrf id > and vrf name. In order to have a proper > > picture about the forwarding plane, and to enable data correlation, key > fields from other perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-plane, device) > are necessary to enable data correlation with other protocols such as BMP > and YANG. > > > > > > > Thomas> Going back to the initial conversation. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102 > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5102#section-7.2 > > > > > > For ensuring extensibility of this information, IANA has created a > > > new registry for MPLS label types and filled it with the initial list > > > from the description Information Element #46, mplsTopLabelType. > > > > > > Thomas> When IPFIX was specified, it has been defined in mind that other > MPLS label protocols will be developed in the future. Which is the case > with RFC 8665, 8666, 8667 and 8669. All adding TLV's to carry segment > routing > > SID's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors > implemented IE46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label > protocol was IS-IS SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptabl= e. > When new protocols are developed, we at IETF must > > ensure that they can be properly monitored. With IPFIX we have the proper > protocol to do that. Even without modifications as section 4 in > draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting mentioned: > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#sec= tion-4 > > > > > > Thomas> You have been referring to complexity. One of the key objectives > of SR-MPLS was that it does not much change in the MPLS data plane. You > need to explain on this WG how SR differs from other MPLS label protocols > > in terms of RIB/FIB. And then from there *why* an implementation would be > difficult. That=E2=80=99s the discussion I am looking forward to. > > > Gyan> SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data plane so from that perspective is the > same but how it differs is with SR steering and MSD SID depth with SR-TE > especially when strict ERO is defined with adjacency SID the label stack = is > expanded. > With MPLS we are label swapping however with SR you are label stacking. So let=E2=80=99s say you have an SR-TE path instantiated and usi= ng the strict ERO path with adjacency SIDs defined, would just the active label being used in the forwarding plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus the entire stack of labels. > In theory it appears that the IPFIX machinery is in place with IE 46 to > support SR as what you have proposed in the draft. > As far as vendor compatibility as long as they support IE 46 they should support SR-MPLS. I don=E2=80=99t see any issues now as far as complexities to support as the= we are using existing machinery IPFIX IE 46 to extend for SR support. I think getting feedback from LSR is critical on their thoughts on complexity and caveats with getting the codepoints assigned. What about IPFIX SRv6 support? Comment on Section 2 A typical use case scenario is to monitor MPLS control plane migrations from LDP to IS-IS or OSPF. By looking at the MPLS label value itself, it is not always clear as to which label protocol it belongs, since they could potentially share the same label allocation range. This is the case for IGP-Adjacency SID's and LDP as an example. SR SRGB label range is different then LDP label range. > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > *From:* Gyan Mishra > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > *Cc:* hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; > spring@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Responses in-line > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates fro= m > LDP, RSVP-TE. > > Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was > being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is important to distinguish between intend and result. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network > operator > > want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding > > > > > > packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or > not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic > and not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3 > > , > > > > > > describes the context. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to tha= t > end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. Wi= th > your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be > used for not > > just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to analyze and > troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable departure I > think from what IPFIX was intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or > a LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing > paradigm". > > Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding > > > > > > decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional > labels.. With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFI= X. > Enabling to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " > Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not > > > > > > very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the > adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes mu= ch > more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to > forward the packet instead of a prefix. > > > > > > If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that > decision lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issu= es > in segment routing networks more efficiently and quickly. > > > > > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > > > > > am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities > > > > > > > > > > > > For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed > what you mean > > with > > > > > > implementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding > where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could > differentiate between > > > > > > MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was > coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM > > > > > > > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > > > > > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; > > spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > I should have been more clear in my email. > > > > > > > > > > > > The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label > type identifier registry: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > SR Prefix SID > - > > SR Adjacency SID > - > > SR Binding SID > - > > SR BGP Peering SID > - > > =E2=80=A6 and so on > > > > > > > > > > > > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > And my questions were: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was > being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > 2. > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or > a LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads > with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefi= t > (if any) > > that they provide for the > > > > > > flow analysis and monitoring. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* > > > > > > > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* 15 August 2020 09:40 > > > > > > > > > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; > > > > > > hannes@gredler.at > > > > > > > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; > > > > > > > > spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much for the review and feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID > was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS > > > > > > =E2=80=93 what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SI= D. > Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learnin= g the > same prefix from different IGPs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used i= n > networks when migrations > > are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from > > > > > > LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom > when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The > key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers w= e > enable the possibility to verify the > > > > > > label protocol migration without taking the label value into the > consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some > implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information > > > > > > is not available therein. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and > SPRING. > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-m= pls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label > Type identifier. There > > is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. > > > > > > Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. > > > > > > > > > > > > I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to > implement IE 46. > > But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. > > > > > > The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the > right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Labe= l > Type identifier make sense > > > > > > and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends > the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so > when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX > implementation can point to the right > > > > > > code point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP > =E2=80=93 what would we use/show? > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program > the FIB. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not > possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of > these types are control plane elements and we can > > > > > > be sure more get added. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the > architecture > > and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities > > > > > > are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what > make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. > This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is > possible what makes sense. I would be interested > > > > > > to get your and also Jeff's feedback. > > > > > > > > > > > > In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefi= t > of visibility > > in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This > > > > > > should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which > label protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SI= D > type to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed. > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM > > > > > > > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > > > > > hannes@gredler.at > > > > > > > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective= . > > > > > > > > > > > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important > > is that it is a > > > > > > Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols an= d > learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this > information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not > matter and this information is not > > > > > > available therein. > > > > > > > > > > > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > > > > > > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, > SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > > > > > > > > > > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed > to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in > some cases not > > possible to different > > > > > > between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control > plane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much > value in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency S= ID? > > > > > > > > > > > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this leve= l > of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analys= is > to perhaps > > consider a middle ground? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr > > > > > > *On Behalf Of *Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* 31 July 2020 20:52 > > > > > > > > > *To:* hannes@gredler.at > > > > > > > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hannes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it > for the > > next update... > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Hannes Gredler > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > > > > > > > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > > > > > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popu= lar in DC > deployments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, > > > > > > > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow > Information Export (IPFIX) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-inf= ormation-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA > IPFIX registry for IS-IS, > > OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain > > > > > > further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but > also from lsr and mpls > > working groups since these code points are related to link > > > > > > state routing protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thomas Graf > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Lsr mailing list > > > > > > > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > OPSAWG mailing list > > > > > > OPSAWG@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > > *Network Solutions Architect * > > > > > > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike > *Silver > Spring, MD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000005ae49e05ad04a7de Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Thomas=C2=A0

Hi Gyan,

 

Gyan> IPFIX has been traditi= onally been used for flow analysis and to that end all that was required is= support of the data plane encapsulation.  With your proposed SR suppo= rt idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also= to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding.  That is a conside= rable departure I think from what IPFIX was intended.  I am not s= ure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX.

 

Thomas> I have seen your fee= dback to Tarek and was puzzled about your remark about data plane encapsula= tion and IPFIX. I think you have a limited picture for what IPFIX has been = intended and being used. I do not want to lecture, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflow an= d IPFIX. At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic for B= GP control-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix attrib= ute. These helped to account traffic in shared enviroments. Later also for datacenters. These was and is always= in conjunction with the encapsulated header metrics of forwarded traffic a= nd device dimensions such as ingress interface, egress interface, vrf id an= d vrf name. In order to have a proper picture about the forwarding plane, and to enable data correlation, key fi= elds from other perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-plane, device) are = necessary to enable data correlation with other protocols such as BMP and Y= ANG.

 

Thomas> Going back to the in= itial conversation. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5102#section-7.= 2

 

   For ensuring extensibility of = this information, IANA has created a

   new registry for MPLS label ty= pes and filled it with the initial list

   from the description Informati= on Element #46, mplsTopLabelType.

 

Thomas> When IPFIX was speci= fied, it has been defined in mind that other MPLS label protocols will be d= eveloped in the future. Which is the case with RFC 8665, 8666, 8667 and 866= 9. All adding TLV's to carry segment routing SID's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors implemente= d IE46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label protocol was IS-= IS SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptable. When new protoc= ols are developed, we at IETF must ensure that they can be properly monitored. With IPFIX we have the proper = protocol to do that. Even without modifications as section 4 in draft-ali-s= pring-sr-traffic-accounting mentioned: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#secti= on-4

 

Thomas> You have been referr= ing to complexity. One of the key objectives of SR-MPLS was that it does no= t much change in the MPLS data plane. You need to explain on this WG how SR= differs from other MPLS label protocols in terms of RIB/FIB. And then from there why an implementation woul= d be difficult. That’s the discussion I am looking forward to.

 

Best wishes

Thomas

 =

From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM
To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.o= rg; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

 

Hi Thomas 

 

Responses in-line 

 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com&= gt; wrote:












 

 

Hi Ketan,

 

 

 

 

  • This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment = types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

 

 

 

To be precise, the existing MPL= S Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

 

 

 

 

  • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Pr= efix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

 

 

 

It is important to distinguish = between intend and result.

 

 

 

If you migrate from one label d= istribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding

packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or n= ot. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and= not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3,

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3,

describes the context.

 

Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for = flow analysis and to that end all that was required is support of the data = plane encapsulation.  With your proposed SR support idea you are reall= y transforming the IPFIX to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to analyze and tro= ubleshoot data plane forwarding.  That is a considerable departure I t= hink from what IPFIX was intended.  

 

I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexit= y into IPFIX.

 

 

 

 

  • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a = Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

 

 

 

Quote from RFC8402. "Segme= nt Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding

decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.= . With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabli= ng to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacenc= y SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not

very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the adj= acency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that mak= es much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chose= n to forward the packet instead of a prefix.

If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decis= ion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in s= egment routing networks more efficiently and quickly.

 

 

 

Ø 

am asking for WG to weigh the implementation co= mplexities

 

 

 

For the WG and me, I would be importa= nt if you can describe more detailed what you mean with

implementation complexities. I would like to ha= ve a better understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciat= e if you could differentiate between

MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

 

 

 

Best wishes

 

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

From: Keta= n Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>




Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM


To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; o= psawg@ietf.org


Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type<= /o:p>

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Thomas,

 

 

 

I should have been more clear in my email.

 

 

 

The proposal/suggestion is to add the followi= ng to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:

 

 

  • SR Prefix SID
  • SR Adjacency SID
  • SR Binding SID
  • SR BGP Peering SID
  • … and so on

 

 

 

This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS= segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

 

 

 

And my questions were:

 

 

  1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Pr= efix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?
  2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a = Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

 

 

 

I am asking for WG to weigh the implementatio= n complexities and overheads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments = in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) that they provide for the

flow analysis and monitoring.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ketan

 

 

 

 

 

From:

Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>




Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40


To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>;

hannes@gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org;

spring@ietf.org; o= psawg@ietf.org


Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type<= /o:p>

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ketan,

 

 

 

Thank you very much for the rev= iew and feedback.

 

 

 

 

  • What or how much value be there on determining whether= a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS<= br>
    – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hard= ly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the sam= e prefix from different IGPs.

 

 

 

As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labe= lling protocols are used  in networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from

LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom whe= n we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key p= oint here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enabl= e the possibility to verify the

label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considerat= ion.

 

 

 

 

  • IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in so= me implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information
    is not available therein.

 

 

 

I am not sure if you have seen the presentatio= n in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.

 

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-= 108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

 

 

 

Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which im= plemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified.

Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.<= /p>

 

 

 

I do understand your point that= not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry.

The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementa= tion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been= made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense

and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends t= he IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so wh= en OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX imp= lementation can point to the right

code point.

 

 

 

 

  • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via b= oth BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?

 

 

 

In this case the IE 46 shows the labe= l protocol which was used to program the FIB.

 

 

 

 



  • For that table proposal, it= is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different between Pref= ix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements= and we can

    be sure more get added.

 

 

 

I fully agree. As a network ope= rator its still hard to understand the architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities

are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make= sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This w= ith the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible = what makes sense. I would be interested

to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

 

 

 

In above mentioned slides I described= how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This

should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which labe= l protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type= to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

 

 

 

I hope this makes all sense. Lo= oking forward for reply.

 

 

 

Best wishes

 

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>




Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM


To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>;

hannes@gredler.at


Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spri= ng@ietf.org>


Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

 

 

 

 

 

< also copying Spring WG for their review/= inputs >

 

 

 

Hi Thomas/All,

 

 

 

I have reviewed the draft and would like to s= hare a different perspective.

 

 

 

What or how much value be there on determinin= g whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSP= Fv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a

Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and = learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this inf= ormation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matt= er and this information is not

available therein.

 

 

 

On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be lea= rnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?<= /p>

 

 

 

I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adj= acency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MP= LS Label Type.

 

 

 

This also takes away the need for the second = table that is being proposed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it= is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different

between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value = in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

 

 

 

Could we evaluate the implementation overhead= and complexity of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX agains= t their value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Ketan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Hannes,

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the feedback. = Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update...

 

 

 

Best Wishes

 

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thomas,

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations)= .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite= popular in DC deployments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/hannes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 28.07.2020, at 10:11,

Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear lsr,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I presented the following draft

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Inf= ormation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

at the spring working group at IETF 108 yeste= rday

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption= .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This draft adds additional segment routing co= de points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain

further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been asked to not only gather feedback= from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to link

state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am looking forward to your feedback and inp= ut.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best Wishes

 

 

 

Thomas Graf

 

 

_______________________________________________


Lsr mailing list


Ls= r@ietf.org


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





_______________________________________________

OPSAWG mailing list

OPSAWG@ietf.org
https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg

 

--

Gyan = Mishra

Network = Solutions Architect 

M 301 50= 2-1347
13101 Columbia Pike 
Silver Spring, MD<= /p>

 


Sorry for any misunderstanding.=C2=A0 I am well aware = of the origins and history behind IPFIX and Neflow and use with BGP monitor= ing. =C2=A0

I was not aw= are of IE 46 and how that was being leveraged to support SR IGP extensions = sid types.

After =C2=A0r= eviewing your IPFIX slides related to IE 46 registry for mplsTopLabelType a= nd this drafts solution to extend the IE 46 registry with SR and now requir= ing new IGP codepoints to be allocated. =C2=A0

<= /div>
You had given an example in the LDP interworking exa= mple or others that with this new IGP codepoint in case of multiple control= planes present such as both LDP and SR that with IPFIX and with the new IG= P codepoint allocations for each IGP type that you can see the forwarding r= esulting FIB entry.=C2=A0 I can see that as a benefit for monitoring teleme= try=C2=A0

In-line = =C2=A0below addresses complexity of extending IE46 for SR support.
On Sun, A= ug 16, 2020 at 3:13 AM <Thom= as.Graf@swisscom.com> wrote:



<= br>











Hi Gyan,



=C2=A0



Gyan&= gt; IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that en= d all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation.=C2=A0 W= ith your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX
=
to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now = also to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding.=C2=A0 That is a con= siderable departure I think from what IPFIX was intended.=C2=A0=C2=A0I am n= ot sure we want to add that layer of complexity into

IPFIX.<= u>



=C2=A0



Thomas> I have seen your feedback to Tarek and was puzzled about your = remark about data plane encapsulation and IPFIX. I think you have a limited= picture for what IPFIX has been intended and being used. I do not want
=
to lecture, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflo= w and IPFIX. At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic f= or BGP control-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix at= tribute. These helped to account traffic

in shared enviroments. Lat= er also for datacenters. These was and is always in conjunction with the en= capsulated header metrics of forwarded traffic and device dimensions such a= s ingress interface, egress interface, vrf id and vrf name. In order to hav= e a proper

picture about the forwarding plane, and to enable data c= orrelation, key fields from other perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-p= lane, device) are necessary to enable data correlation with other protocols= such as BMP and YANG.



=C2=A0



Thomas> Going back to the initia= l conversation. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102



https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc= 5102#section-7.2



=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 For ensuring extensibility of this information= , IANA has created a



=C2=A0=C2=A0 new registry for MPLS label types and= filled it with the initial list

<= br>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 from the description Info= rmation Element #46, mplsTopLabelType.



=C2=A0



Thomas>= When IPFIX was specified, it has been defined in mind that other MPLS labe= l protocols will be developed in the future. Which is the case with RFC 866= 5, 8666, 8667 and 8669. All adding TLV's to carry segment routing
SID's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors impl= emented IE46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label protocol w= as IS-IS SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptable. When new = protocols are developed, we at IETF must

ensure that they can be pr= operly monitored. With IPFIX we have the proper protocol to do that. Even w= ithout modifications as section 4 in draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting= mentioned:



https://tools= .ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#section-4



= =C2=A0



Thomas> You have been referring to complexity. One of the key objec= tives of SR-MPLS was that it does not much change in the MPLS data plane. Y= ou need to explain on this WG how SR differs from other MPLS label protocol= s

in terms of RIB/FIB. And then from there why an implementa= tion would be difficult. That=E2=80=99s the discussion I am looking forward= to.



Gyan> SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data plane so from that =C2= =A0perspective is the same but how it differs is with SR steering and MSD S= ID depth with SR-TE especially when strict ERO is defined with adjacency SI= D the label stack is expanded. =C2=A0


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 With MPLS we are = label swapping however with SR you are label stacking.=C2=A0 So let=E2=80= =99s say you have an SR-TE path instantiated and using the strict ERO path = with adjacency SIDs defined, =C2=A0would just the active label being used i= n the forwarding plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus the= entire stack of labels.

In theory it appears that the IPFIX machinery is in place with IE 46 to= support SR as what you have proposed in the draft. =C2=A0

=

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 As far as vendor compatibility as long as they =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 support IE 46 they should support SR-MPLS.

I don=E2=80=99t see any issues now as far as = complexities to support as the we are using existing machinery IPFIX IE 46 = to extend for SR support. =C2=A0

I think getting feedback from LSR is critical on their thoughts o= n complexity and caveats with getting the codepoints assigned.

What about IPFIX =C2=A0SRv6 support?=

Comment on Section 2

   A=
 typical use case scenario is to monitor MPLS control plane
   migration=
s from LDP to IS-IS or OSPF.  By looking at the MPLS label
   value itse=
lf, it is not always clear as to which label protocol it
   belongs, sin=
ce they could potentially share the same label allocation
   range.  Thi=
s is the case for IGP-Adjacency SID's and LDP as an
   example.
SR SRGB label range is different then LDP label rang=
e.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=

Best wishes=



Thomas



= =C2=A0=



From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>



<= br>Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM


To: Gra= f Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>


Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org


Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type



=C2=A0

<= br>




=C2=A0









Hi Thomas=C2=A0







=C2=A0






Responses in-line=C2=A0





=C2=A0










On Sat= , Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com> wrote:

<= br>







<= br>






=





























=C2=A0









=C2=A0


Hi Ketan,



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0





<= /u>=C2=A0







  • This helps identification of specific SR-MP= LS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.


=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0


To be = precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, R= SVP-TE.

Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.



= =C2=A0



= =C2=A0



=C2=A0





= =C2=A0







  • What value is pro= vided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF = or ISIS?


=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



It is importan= t to distinguish between intend and result.


=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= u>



=C2=A0



If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to anoth= er, a network operator

want's to understand if the data plane i= s still forwarding





packets with the label distributi= on protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 enables that by looking = at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at the intend. RFC 8661 sect= ion 3,





https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3,





d= escribes the context.



=C2=A0









<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for f= low analysis and to that end all that was required is support of the data p= lane encapsulation.=C2=A0 With your proposed SR support idea you are really= transforming the IPFIX to be used for not

just flow monitoring at = that level solely, but now also to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forw= arding.=C2=A0 That is a considerable departure I think from what IPFIX was = intended.=C2=A0=C2=A0







<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0






I am not sure we want to add that layer of com= plexity into IPFIX.


















=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0





=C2=A0







    What value is provided f= or IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?<= u>


=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0


<= br>

Quote fro= m RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm= ".

Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding=





decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pu= shing additional labels.. With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this di= mension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the result of this decision. The exam= ple with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not




very useful because the difference of the two is the topology= among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID&q= uot;, that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adja= cency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix.



<= br>
If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of tha= t decision lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issu= es in segment routing networks more efficiently and quickly.<= u>



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C3=98=C2=A0




am asking for WG to weigh the impleme= ntation complexities



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



= =C2=A0



For the WG and me, I would be imp= ortant if you can describe more detailed what you mean

with

=



implementation complexities. I = would like to have a better understanding where your fear is coming from. I= would appreciate if you could differentiate between




MPLS Label Type identifier,= IE46, from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType wh= ich SID type was used.





=





=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0


=

Best wis= hes



=C2=A0



Thomas



=C2=A0


=C2=A0=



=C2=A0




=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= u>



=C2=A0



Hi T= homas,



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



I should have been more clear in my ema= il.



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



The proposal/suggestion is to add the follow= ing to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:<= /p>

=C2= =A0





=C2=A0



<= ul type=3D"disc">



  • SR Prefix SID


  • <= span lang=3D"EN-IN">SR Adjacency SID


  • SR Binding SID=


  • SR BGP Peering SI= D


  • =E2=80=A6 and so on


    • =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0



    This helps identi= fication of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them = from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =

    =C2=A0

    And my questions were:=



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0=







    1. What value is = provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OS= PF or ISIS?


    2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjace= ncy SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?


    =C2=A0


    =

    =C2=A0=



    =C2= =A0



    I am aski= ng for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the p= roposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any)
    that they provide for the





    flow analysis and m= onitoring.



    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Thanks,


    <= br>

    =C2=A0=



    Ketan=



    <= /u>=C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    From:






    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com     <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>



    <= br>









    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:4= 0








    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &= lt;ketant@cisco.com>;





    hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:= lsr@ietf.org;





    =

    spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org








    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

    <= br>

    =C2=A0=





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    =

    Hi Ketan,=



    <= /u>=C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Thank you very much for the review and= feedback.



    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0


    =

    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0






    • =
      What or how much value be there on determining whe= ther a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/I= SIS





      =E2=80=93 what matters and is more important is = that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple p= rotocols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs.      =


    <= u>=C2=A0



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling pr= otocols are used =C2=A0in networks when migrations

    are ongoing. Usu= ally in a life cycle. Migrating from





    LDP to OSPFv2/O= SPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom when we first disc= overed this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key point here, with= these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enable the possibili= ty to verify the





    label protocol migration without ta= king the label value into the consideration.


    =C2=A0<= /p>

    =C2=A0=



    <= /u>=C2=A0





    =C2=A0






    • IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some impleme= ntation where the protocol does not matter and this information


      =


      is not available therein.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0<= u>



    =C2=A0



    = I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING.



    =C2=A0



    https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-= export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf<= u>



    =C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    =C2=A0



    Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented I= E 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There

    is an open ddts where vendo= r feasibility has been clarified.





    Ping me off the li= st when you like to have more details.



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capab= le to implement IE 46.

    But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the I= PFIX IE registry.





    Th= e IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right c= ode point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type id= entifier make sense





    and can be implemented. draft-tg= raf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends the IE 46 registry with the Segme= nt Routing label protocol code points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is = used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX implementation can point to the rig= ht





    code point.



    =C2=A0


    =

    =C2=A0=



    =C2= =A0





    =C2=A0



    <= ul type=3D"disc">



  • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP = =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?


    • =C2=A0


    =C2=A0=



    =C2=A0



    In this case the= IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0












      For that table pro= posal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different bet= ween Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane= elements and we can





      be sure more get added.      <= u>


    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    <= br>

    I fully a= gree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture
    and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities




    are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is po= ssible, what make sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in = the draft. This with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups = what is possible what makes sense. I would be interested




    to get your and also Jeff's feedback.


    =

    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    In above = mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibi= lity

    in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This


    =


    should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look a= t which label protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also wh= ich SID type to further understand the intend why this label is being pushe= d.



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    I hope = this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply.


    =C2=A0<= /u>



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Best wishes



    =C2=A0



    Thomas



    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">=C2=A0

    =

    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    From: Ke= tan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>










    =



    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM







    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>;





    hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:= lsr@ietf.org; SP= RING WG <spring@iet= f.org>








    Subject: RE: [Lsr] = draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0=





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0<= /u>



    <= u>=C2=A0



    = < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0=



    =C2=A0



    Hi Thomas/All,



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =

    =C2=A0

    I have reviewed the dr= aft and would like to share a different perspective.

    =C2=A0=



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID= was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what m= atters and is more important

    is that it is a




    Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and= learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this in= formation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not mat= ter and this information is not





    available therein.



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learn= t via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0=



    =C2=A0



    I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Bind= ing SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type.



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    This also takes away the need for the second table= that is being proposed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is v= ery difficult and in some cases not

    possible to different




    between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types = are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there real= ly much value in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjac= ency SID?



    =C2=A0



    <= span lang=3D"EN-IN">=C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Could we evaluate the implementation o= verhead and complexity of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX= against their value in flow analysis to perhaps

    consider a middle = ground?



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Thanks,


    =C2=A0

    Ketan



    =C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>>





    On Behalf Of     Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com

    <= br>





    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52



    <= br>



    To: hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:= lsr@ietf.org
    =







    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix= -mpls-sr-label-type



    =C2=A0





    =

    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Hi Hannes,



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will = take it for the

    next update...



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0<= /span>



    =C2=A0



    Best Wishes



    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">=C2=A0

    =

    Thom= as



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    <= br>


    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    From: Hannes Gr= edler <hannes@gre= dler.at>














    = Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM







    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>







    Cc: lsr@ietf.org








    Subject:= Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

    =C2=A0<= u>





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    Thomas,



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0


    =


    =C2=A0



    I have one comment/suggest= ion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).



    =C2=A0




    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">=C2=A0

    =

    Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-= SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popular in DC deployments.


    =C2=A0<= /p>



    =C2=A0









    =




    =C2=A0




    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0




    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    thank= s,



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0

    <= br>

    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0=





    =C2=A0



    /hannes<= /u>



    <= u>=C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0


    <= br>


    = =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11,







    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.c= om     wrote:



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0

    <= br>


    = =C2=A0



    Dear lsr,=



    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0


    <= br>

    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    <= br>


    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    I presented the following draft


    =

    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2= =A0





    =C2=A0



    Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow= Information Export (IPFIX)



    =C2=A0



    =

    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0




    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday=



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0


    =C2=A0=



    =C2= =A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    This draft adds additional segment routin= g code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS,

    OPSFv2 and = OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain





    furthe= r insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.


    <= br>

    =C2=A0=





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2= =A0





    =C2=A0



    I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and op= sawg but also from lsr and mpls

    working groups since these code poi= nts are related to link





    state routing protocols and = mpls data plane.



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0




    <= /u>=C2=A0



    =C2= =A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0




    =C2=A0<= /u>



    I am looking forwa= rd to your feedback and input.



    =C2=A0





    =C2= =A0





    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0

    <= br>


    = =C2=A0



    Best= Wishes



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0=



    Thomas Graf



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0



    __= _____________________________________________







    Lsr mailing list








    Lsr@ietf.org



    =




    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0




    =C2=A0<= /p>



    =C2=A0



    =C2=A0



    = =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0








    <= br>







    ________________________________________= _______





    OPSAWG mailing list





    <= a href=3D"mailto:OPSAWG@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OPSAWG@ietf.org
    =




    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg=









    =C2=A0





    --








    =


    --
    <= div dir=3D"ltr">


    Gy= an Mishra

    Net= work Solutions A= rchitect=C2=A0

    M 301 502-1347
    = 13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
    Silver Spring, MD

    --0000000000005ae49e05ad04a7de-- From nobody Sun Aug 16 20:05:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80403A130D; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UV7mW5UzIsmf; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 415BD3A1307; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 20:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml733-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 588DC155C2A4CE8A16F7; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:04:51 +0100 (IST) Received: from nkgeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.153) by lhreml733-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 04:04:50 +0100 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by nkgeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:04:48 +0800 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 11:04:48 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "ketant@cisco.com" , "hannes@gredler.at" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thread-Index: AdZktQw6HSkqPcEmSIuqXgxatw/WKwAgiNeAAHUFS4ACxLlpAAAWMMWAAAIMOYAAAdX7gABuUZPw Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 03:04:47 +0000 Message-ID: <36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59e@huawei.com> References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <2022615026.3001869.1597464620979@ss002889> <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> In-Reply-To: <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.128] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59ehuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 03:04:57 -0000 --_000_36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59ehuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, I think questions from both Ketan and Gyan on the IE usage are very importa= nt. The value should be described clearly in the draft. So that people now = how to implement and use them. Here your replay to Ketan on the mplsTopLabelType is clear to me. You want = to account the traffic with different IGP distribution, to see if your netw= ork runs correct. The SrSidType seems more complex. "Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the pa= cket instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand= that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables to narrow d= own forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficiently and quic= kly." Could you please make this use case more clear joint with IE89? And this case want to justify the value of Adjacency SID. Is there any othe= r use cases for accounting other sid types? Thanks, Tianran From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swis= scom.com Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:01 PM To: ketant@cisco.com; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, ? This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as d= ifferentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. ? What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being= signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. ? What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a= LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. With I= PFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to an= alyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LA= N Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is th= e topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix = SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adja= cency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, Forwar= dingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead to the = drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing n= etworks more efficiently and quickly. ? am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: - SR Prefix SID - SR Adjacency SID - SR Binding SID - SR BGP Peering SID - ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1) What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was = being signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2) What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID= or a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. ? What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID w= as signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and= is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would= be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different = IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. ? IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. ? On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - = what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. ? For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not poss= ible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these ty= pes are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update... Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59ehuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Thomas,<= /span>

     

    I think questions from= both Ketan and Gyan on the IE usage are very important. The value should b= e described clearly in the draft. So that people now how to implement and u= se them.

    Here your replay to Ke= tan on the mplsTopLabelType is clear to me. You want to account the traffic= with different IGP distribution, to see if your network runs correct.=

    The SrSidType seems mo= re complex.  

    “Since it descri= bes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of = a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of = that decision lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficien= tly and quickly.”

    Could you please make = this use case more clear joint with IE89?

    And this case want to = justify the value of Adjacency SID. Is there any other use cases for accoun= ting other sid types?

     

    Thanks,

    Tianran

     

    From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org]= On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:01 PM
    To: ketant@cisco.com; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Ø  This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types a= s well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

    To be precise, the existing MPLS= Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidT= ype IPFIX IE being proposed.

     

    Ø  What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SI= D was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

     

    It is important to distinguish b= etween intend and result.

     

    If you migrate from one label di= stribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if = the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 ena= bles that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at the = intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

     

    Ø  What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacen= cy SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    Quote from RFC8402. "Segmen= t Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". Means that not = the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. With IPF= IX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to anal= yze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a= LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the adjacency. If = you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much mor= e sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forwar= d the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead = to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment ro= uting networks more efficiently and quickly.

     

    Ø  am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities

     

    For the WG and me, I would be im= portant if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementa= tion complexities. I would like to have a better understanding where your f= ear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= .

     

    Best wishes

    Thomas

     

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    I should have been more clear in my email.

     

    The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Lab= el type identifier registry:

    -          SR Prefix SID

    -          SR Adjacency SID

    -          SR Binding SID

    -          SR BGP Peering SID

    -          … and so on

     

    This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

    And my questions were:

    1)      What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SI= D was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

    2)      What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacen= cy SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overh= eads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the ben= efit (if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very much for the revi= ew and feedback.

     

    Ø  What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR P= refix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS –= what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple proto= cols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs.

     

    As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swissc= om when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The= key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we= enable the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the consi= deration.

     

    Ø  IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some impl= ementation where the protocol does not matter and this information is not a= vailable therein.

     

    I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

    https://www.ietf.org/p= roceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-inform= ation-in-ipfix-00.pdf

     

    Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.

     =

    I do understand your point that = not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that’s not th= e point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an I= PFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the de= cision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point.

     

    Ø  On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP= and IGP – what would we use/show?

     =

    In this case the = IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     =

    Ø  For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cas= es not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many = of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. 

    I fully agree. As a network oper= ator its still hard to understand the architecture and constraints within a= router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sense. By pu= rpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with the aim t= o start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what makes se= nse. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     

    In above mentioned slides I desc= ribed how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in the FIB by show= ing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol was use= d to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to further unders= tand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     

    I hope this makes all sense. Loo= king forward for reply.

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

     

    Hi Thomas/All,

     

    I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspec= tive.

     

    What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what ma= tters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and= learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this in= formation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not mat= ter and this information is not available therein.

     

    On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= – what would we use/show?

     

    I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding S= ID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

     

    This also takes away the need for the second table that is being prop= osed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and i= n some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control p= lane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value= in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this = level of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow an= alysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    To: hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Hannes,

     =

    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Y= es, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update...<= /span>

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas

     

     =

    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Thomas,

     

    I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

     

    Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

     

    thanks,

     

    /hannes

    =  

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

     

    Dear lsr,

     

    I presented the following draft

     <= /span>

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Info= rmation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yester= day

     <= /span>

    and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.=

     <= /span>

    This draft adds additional segment routing cod= e points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and s= egment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.<= /span>

     <= /span>

    I have been asked to not only gather feedback = from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working groups since thes= e code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     <= /span>

    I am looking forward to your feedback and inpu= t.

     <= /span>

    Best Wishes

    Thomas Graf

    ___________________________________= ____________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

     

    --_000_36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59ehuaweicom_-- From nobody Sun Aug 16 23:20:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA22B3A09C6; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:20:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wahGnXJjNkzc; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8E333A09C1; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2d.google.com with SMTP id n25so7695286vsq.6; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:20:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wVroKOjaNN0akokRAPe4GNTHD7g7zpngC1h0LmA2hQU=; b=ZWaMhZaBpxmsxZS5o3rsXjwIR8l2PFlzMOezKXc4iJTshqHwGgyPsRBS+jyPoFs+Kh 0/8EEbmQ8kbKo8ZW2RY7awB1EqTP9qQaKHSMotVe+pyaudVZZwcQHNt10rxPa6p/uqoW nvWUheEPBYdFO6LtxBOWr6prDu6kF4aieGRC2w+o6+jPQoSEh4uIhq5P+L/PnxMzSHBx avqOAHnbOXDOdu0zZJHA2fAi2xuaGytJKUTEAU6YYAPtS0gkMQlXHcA++gcFSrUMPF3b dGDemd/uccyqD7n0XLatqXtCa+A2quiyVHZv0lFuVd7iHsDXGAw9RBdlu3PrxIyvQ51i 6GfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wVroKOjaNN0akokRAPe4GNTHD7g7zpngC1h0LmA2hQU=; b=FO4E8OcLQtAohAYbXmtXqzlERdk2ISWLmZrZHVR0GOEZKo7Su6TU8QP/3fJXF4LQHB DiDuFV3E60cBo2+TDVGV/OVffAeXCKwRzl5ZZdPKpSrwzYoNZO9Ey45VrStefZb/tY3S 2Uk6TsdW5toQoNz92t3swzuX9FYaZ+KJ28cO3VwHpENYmQsb3D9rlKlmp2TrC2AjbWws +sqgkf92E+LRbSM0dSP+aIg59PWFxRjEy5EOyF5G77MhqauPKi4lR1bjrfsMbLhsHIZA F4TRRTQS4AyobUGO4wM3HLpWZmxVDCpc3ARCGq4NVG4t8UaP0hWAGWqVjo0uUpQtLWUb yVEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eLCtIU9xmK+MEgPorHLHMilQ/1VpMd+XAEBErTOdxchBU6kuJ m3p99qFsnqaWvBnM0G+VksFvfZtAKO8fGY6+Xmo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw+guCN417JWEu+zQ62wkTGkkuZXry/PJQIXu6Q5PdUYwglPAfiW4DDDlqIZH331GdGYSpie5WQCbbjQcChIHE= X-Received: by 2002:a67:30d5:: with SMTP id w204mr7204592vsw.219.1597645208452; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:20:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1307140725.3423419.1595923900561@ss002890> <44EA00AA-E9D9-4173-9F34-219752DACA5D@gredler.at> <1419364510.2875.1596208917648@ss002890> <2022615026.3001869.1597464620979@ss002889> <696872714.3003081.1597471334092@ss002889> <36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59e@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <36c5b46bbdf541119fd2a70a9c6aa59e@huawei.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 02:19:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: Tianran Zhou Cc: "Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com" , "hannes@gredler.at" , "ketant@cisco.com" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002081ef05ad0cc38b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [OPSAWG] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 06:20:14 -0000 --0000000000002081ef05ad0cc38b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas Just a thought to build on what Tianran mentioned. It almost seems as if IPFIX taking on the role of BGP-LU / PCE centralized controller function to to create a SR graph of the topology. We already have all the SR topology data in the PCE for path instantiation and steering. Do we also really need the data replicated into IPFIX. The PCE may also be able to do fault isolation and troubleshooting as it has the topology of the entire SR domain. Something to consider. Also gathering flat bits and pieces of information is not the same as what is being fed by BGP-LS into the PCE. So am wondering what value this will provide with the flat construction of the network graph. Gyan On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 11:05 PM Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > > > I think questions from both Ketan and Gyan on the IE usage are very > important. The value should be described clearly in the draft. So that > people now how to implement and use them. > > > Here your replay to Ketan on the mplsTopLabelType is clear to me. You wan= t > to account the traffic with different IGP distribution, to see if your > network runs correct. > > > The SrSidType seems more complex. > > > =E2=80=9CSince it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forw= ard the > packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we > understand that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables > > to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more > efficiently and quickly.=E2=80=9D > > > Could you please make this use case more clear joint with IE89? > > > And this case want to justify the value of Adjacency SID. Is there any > other use cases for accounting other sid types? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tianran > > > > > > > > > > *From:* OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] > > *On Behalf Of*Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2020 2:01 PM > > > *To:* ketant@cisco.com; hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates fro= m > LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being > signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > > > > > > > It is important to distinguish between intend and result. > > > > > > If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network > operator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packe= ts > with > > the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 > enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at > the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, > > describes the context. > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a > LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing > paradigm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding > decisions, > > the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. With > IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to > analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or = a > LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful > > because the difference of the two is the topology among the adjacency. If > you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much more sense. > Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the > packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, > > ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead > to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment > routing networks more efficiently and quickly. > > > > > > =C3=98 > > am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities > > > > > > For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed > what you mean with > > implementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding > where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could > differentiate between > > MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was > coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used.. > > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > *Sent:* Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; > > spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Thomas, > > > > > > I should have been more clear in my email. > > > > > > The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label > type identifier registry: > > > > > - > > SR Prefix SID > > > > > - > > SR Adjacency SID > > > > > - > > SR Binding SID > > > > > - > > SR BGP Peering SID > > > > > - > > =E2=80=A6 and so on > > > > > > This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as > differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. > > > > > > And my questions were: > > > > > 1) > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being > signalled via OSPF or ISIS? > > > > > > 2) > > What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a > LAN Adjacency SID? > > > > > > I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads > with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefi= t > (if any) that they provide for the > > flow analysis and monitoring. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > > > *Sent:* 15 August 2020 09:40 > > > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; > > spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > Thank you very much for the review and feedback. > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important is that > > it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple > protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs. > > > > > > > As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used i= n > networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating > > from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at > Swisscom when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor > implementations. The key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Lab= el > Type identifiers we enable the possibility to verify > > the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the > consideration. > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation > where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available > therein. > > > > > > I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and > SPRING. > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-m= pls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label > Type identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has > > been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. > > > > > > I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to > implement IE 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE regi= stry. > > The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the > right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Labe= l > Type identifier > > make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > just extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol > code points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is > supported, the IPFIX implementation can point > > to the right code point. > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program > the FIB. > > > > > > > > > =C3=98 > > For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not > possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of > these types are control plane elements > > and we can be sure more get added. > > > > > > I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the > architecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilitie= s > are discussed > > at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sense. By > purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with the a= im > to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what makes > sense. I would be interested to get > > your and also Jeff's feedback. > > > > > > In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefi= t > of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should b= e > a simple > > example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol was > used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to further > understand the intend why this label is being pushed. > > > > > > > I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. > > > > > > Best wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; > > hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > > > *Subject:* RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > > > > > > > Hi Thomas/All, > > > > > > I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective= . > > > > > > What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID wa= s > signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matt= ers and is > more important is that it is a > > Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols an= d > learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this > information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not > matter and this information is not > > available therein. > > > > > > On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2= =80=93 > what would we use/show? > > > > > > I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, > SR BGP Peering SID and so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type. > > > > > > This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed > to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in > some cases not possible to different > > between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control > plane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much > value in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency S= ID? > > > > > > Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this leve= l > of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analys= is > to perhaps consider a middle ground? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr > > *On Behalf Of *Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > > > *Sent:* 31 July 2020 20:52 > > > *To:* hannes@gredler.at > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Hi Hannes, > > > > > > Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it > for the next update... > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Hannes Gredler > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM > > > *To:* Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type > > > > > > > > > > Thomas, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popu= lar in DC > deployments. > > > > > > > https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, > > Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear lsr, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presented the following draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow > Information Export (IPFIX) > > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-inf= ormation-export-ipfix-00.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA > IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID type= s > to gain further insights > > into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but > also from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related > to link state routing > > protocols and mpls data plane. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking forward to your feedback and input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > Thomas Graf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Lsr mailing list > > > Lsr@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OPSAWG mailing list > > OPSAWG@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000002081ef05ad0cc38b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Thomas=C2=A0
     --0000000000001e776405ad29f728-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 10:33:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91AE73A08DE; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:33:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id akayyDM1_GbF; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1078E3A0890; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7744; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597771987; x=1598981587; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qbo+GGyFQPSlE2lN4rKQZFTuaosH4d4nsvRB1XPqy2M=; b=UPrpwrTKZ5686dTn3Vx0SSo4aC8crSsCLieP+9gveALlrFAL50hXNevf WsPtQR30GmsqN6LOqkdA4tHly4eUdKidQESmgNXQKQ7Q68CG9fqOQdsbw V+//mXhGwP8MfPZZ+nwtZYdB0yplG5On6NWMDkJ2yf6GtJ5ShzCIjNfRG 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,328,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28852289" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 18 Aug 2020 17:33:05 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07IHX4Th023118; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:33:04 GMT To: Robert Raszuk , Tony Li Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , Christian Hopps , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:33:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:33:17 -0000 Hi Robert, On 18/08/2020 19:10, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Tony, > > I am not sure what the deal is :) > > But fact is that we never defined a type which this draft is referring to > > "Min Unidirectional Link Delay" just does not exist in any IANA registry > so even any search for that will fail. > > Perhaps authors assumed that: > > Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay means both "Min Unidirectional Link > Delay" & "Max Unidirectional Link Delay" but this is just asking > for ambiguity. yes, Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay advertise both Min and Max and we use Min out of that. I'll make the clarification in the draft, so we can close this discussion. thanks, Peter > > Cheers, > R. > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:02 PM > wrote: > > > Robert, > > Thank you, exactly. > > We just need a clarification of the document.  I don’t understand > why this is such a big deal. > > Tony > > >> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > > wrote: >> >> Les, >> >> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >> >> See RFC 8570 says: >> >> Type Description >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> 33 Unidirectional Link Delay >> >> 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >> >> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this >> draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link >> Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :) >> >> If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of >> Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >> >> That's all. >> >> Cheers, >> R. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> > > wrote: >> >> Tony –____ >> >> __ __ >> >> As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am >> not sure why you are confused – nor why you got misdirected to >> code point 33.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:____ >> >> __ __ >> >> 34           Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay____ >> >> __ __ >> >> This sub-TLV contains two values:____ >> >> __ __ >> >> “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured >> link delay____ >> >>       value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >> encoded as____ >> >>       an integer value.____ >> >> __ __ >> >>    Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured >> link delay____ >> >>       value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >> encoded as____ >> >>       an integer value.”____ >> >> __ __ >> >> It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min >> Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, >> but I think Peter has been very clear.____ >> >> Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33??____ >> >> __ __ >> >>    Les____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> *From:* Lsr > > *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > > >> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org >> ; Christian Hopps > >; Acee Lindem (acee) >> >; >> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> Hi Peter,____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:____ >> >> >> Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in >> [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >> >> We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this >> cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average).____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> The problem is that that does not exactly match >> “Unidirectional Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link >> Delay”, leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you >> leave things open to people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so >> of course, you always want to take the min.  So type 33 seems >> like a better match.____ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> >> >> section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >> >> Type   Description                          Encoding >>                                            Reference >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> 34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> And it also says:____ >> >> __ __ >> >> 33      Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >> ____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> This does not help.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I >> have no issue adding the text you proposed below.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as >> writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.  We are >> not there yet.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I >> asked if you were fine with just referencing >> ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did >> not indicate otherwise.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> My bad, I should have pressed the issue.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> >> >> ____ >> >> Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and >> hopefully not something that would cause you to object the >> WG LC of the flex-algo draft.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> __ __ >> >> I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but >> important clarification.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, so at least >> one more spin is required.____ >> >> __ __ >> >> Sorry,____ >> >> Tony____ >> >> __ __ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Tue Aug 18 10:35:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537E13A0885 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WEF2RJLrNNie for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C96213A088A for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:35:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=973; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597772155; x=1598981755; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2xmDpeA1HTIiRKYA3MA8cWRHn4JDsk1qT9ZiYI9yshA=; b=j6K/UxjZBRGp61gwIjYEgiqK8pG9eNfTgUODQMi7XnohO2XPS3vnP4CP +vXEfijRsygbnw2i4ISn96SIB2p1eWkOcqN4RwvUFoS87NJ8T1GhjV9r7 3xeOgqPsrFlr+/MST1i7xJy9F+vLdhOee3KwRQcp478CrUyeKOQHU+Q9C c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C1AADqEDxf/xbLJq1fHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgTkEAQELAYNtASAShGOJAYgknBQLAQEBDi8EAQGETAKCICU?= =?us-ascii?q?3Bg4CAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthWiFcQEBAQMBIw8BBVELGAICHwcCAlcGAQw?= =?us-ascii?q?IAQGDIoJdILBqdoEyhVKDZIFAgQ4qAY05gUE/gREngjsuPoEEhlCCYAS2L4J?= =?us-ascii?q?sgwyXCQUHAx6RZo49kjufaIFpJIFXMxoIGxWDJU8ZDY43H44SPwNnAgYBCQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwmQbAEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,328,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28792796" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 18 Aug 2020 17:35:50 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07IHZo0C023468; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:35:50 GMT To: Veerendranatha Reddy V , "lsr@ietf.org" References: From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:35:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:35:56 -0000 Veerendranath, On 18/08/2020 16:40, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: > Hi Authors, All, > > OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to > distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. > > Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for > external/NSSA prefixes ? I don't see how you can use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV for NSSA, the usage of OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV has only been defined in the context of RFC 8665. thanks, Peter > > For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Prefix Range TLV  by using > LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for External > Prefixes) > > But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes (Type-7) , > which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type field in this TLV > to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as IA flag will not be > set anyway). > > Thanks & Regards, > > Veerendranath > From nobody Tue Aug 18 10:53:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF413A08B9; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 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17:53:51 +0000 From: Alvaro Retana To: "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdYiIPpGbhD/faEiHQTL3sqKKEA== Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:53:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [2606:a000:1126:4bb4:5828:f6ce:96f2:97e2] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 643e2585-34a4-43f1-5fe9-08d8439faab3 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR13MB2971: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 93e5018c-6a51-43d8-d44e-08d843ab04e5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 19:15:06.8367 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Y2wMqFn7ht3M3KOhiGtyf9nFcr8KR/+GWHcSeZFtb1oCsv/qOgeW8kWOeu/PBC3hIF5+URf0LIho94a7sba56g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB4087 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:15:12 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB3117F877FEAF120D9B1D38CAF25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any IPR for this document other than those disclosed. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:24 AM To: draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen= -isis-ttz.txt Authors, The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified = here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Acee --_000_MN2PR13MB3117F877FEAF120D9B1D38CAF25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I am not aware of any IPR for this document other than those disclosed.

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo
    From: Acee Lindem (acee) &l= t;acee@cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:24 AM
    To: draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org <draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org>= ;
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone&q= uot; - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt
     

    Authors,

     

    The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for d= raft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

     

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/

     

     

    Are you aware of any other IPR that applie= s to draft-chen-isis-ttz?

     

    If so, has this IPR been disclosed in comp= liance with IETF IPR rules 

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for mo= re details).

     

    If you are listed as a document author or = contributor please respond

    to this email regardless of whether or not= you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The response needs to be se= nt to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document will not advance to th= e next stage until a

    response has been received from each autho= r and contributor.

     

    If you are on the LSR WG email list but ar= e not listed as an author or

    contributor, then please explicitly respon= d only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in= conformance with IETF rules.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee

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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oJzzI_IPJL6v for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5A7C3A0A74 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id i6so16149820edy.5 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FO0O6GX5OppsuvgUy/teNn6doOWHBtz7Kh+rZhtXh4o=; b=b6uls/tV9zegmpXQIeSb4BW63xGqwkgpFaVHe6AEH02MQ8X2o2eHJQlytTHyTB0wt5 9LGTHu76ddhDIg1RS8/+JpvCaEVSPGzGODCqDyjmDso8UX+8Lhp/599qjbybdIspDCas 9u1O0HIZWJSDloKPRaTZWykUPjBkwneIDyEd3OfgvHepcL0j8QjlByrCMFDjMLd0/bT5 /SjkPUz+P4MVPvR1t7eS16KDAps8KxSgJEb7Ynidp5XAKV/LjGFG0dMhFw3pnAiiraXZ KPBshjbwJj4JkmFu2dxlmJUIhmTjirGbni7Hyh0Ov/nkkZW8GHaxgG8HKa10Xr/ZafMe wLDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FO0O6GX5OppsuvgUy/teNn6doOWHBtz7Kh+rZhtXh4o=; b=RAoM8XeJVydWqy6GpFnGkq/7rShsb5aVpp4PGOrI5vLuAgoZ8mAXKJe5W6atr01Q92 7MQd4G1EUVERJAS2wfooCyQHrH7swSQxZCBuGcnzxxnVtw+lmr79BbXFCNNvKx2ed44h IkjWMEuCvURMsnTvhep8Wy9Guqem82yA8ccQ78qomaroOsOGg5vq0rJ72ZHeQJFB+AJI 8OSbjppKSWyunHFHpOsfIjEotQRBAU8YT6UiIvcXYnWY1IxQT0QvbP7ur1CJ2eLaJ6s8 Wc5THm/mDFaVw0jIaY1nDofBdMI9uk8JX9QIkWX8Q0y5ARKlWOdpcG2e1K+AfuLGIbjl Ll8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZArLBYoVzd3+FwVlluHQ297iDDtJwMruhVYY+2R/ovIKOSUrV olwGy/dhxAhmvUd0TdKChWAOZbyDbw5rmJkz+FckRQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQ/18kGAK77LRCQrbvSq6nFEAzrxZCeaZdhH9KMllLCydDG2a3V4hmjVe0HAvupJOAjuLmkqEhithSoy+TRhg= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c70b:: with SMTP id i11mr20923297edq.272.1597778439078; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:20:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:20:29 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "tony.li@tony.li" , Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004aa55d05ad2bc8d8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:20:43 -0000 --0000000000004aa55d05ad2bc8d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les, > and conclude that this is really =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80= =9D is a leap that I cannot follow. I would never suggest to do that. My suggestion was to rename "Min Unidirectional Link Delay" to "minimum value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay" and move on. Cheers, R. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:18 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Tony/Robert =E2=80=93 > > > > Whatever clarification Peter may choose to make would be fine =E2=80=93 b= ut I do > question your casual ignoring of adjectives. =F0=9F=98=8A > > > > There are three values being advertised: > > > > 33 - Unidirectional Link Delay > > 34 =E2=80=93 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > Meaning two values are advertised in this codepoint: > > Min Unidirectional Link Delay > > Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > Now, the flex algo draft states: Min Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > If you want to argue that =E2=80=9CMin Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= !=3D =E2=80=9CMin/Max > Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 I think you are pedantically= correct. > > > > But how that leads you to simply truncate =E2=80=9CMin=E2=80=9D and concl= ude that this is > really =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D is a leap that I canno= t follow. > > > > Perhaps you don=E2=80=99t really like the fact that RFC 8570 encoding com= bined > Min/Max in a single codepoint =E2=80=93 but that ship sailed years ago. > > > > Given that RFC 8570 is very clear in showing that the encoding includes: > > > > > > 0 1 2 3 > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | Type | Length | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |A| RESERVED | Min Delay | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > | RESERVED | Max Delay | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > > > my ability to see your POV is somewhat limited. > > > > Perhaps you could own that a more careful reading is possible? > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:03 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk > *Cc:* Christian Hopps ; > draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem > (acee) ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > > > > > > Robert, > > > > Thank you, exactly. > > > > We just need a clarification of the document. I don=E2=80=99t understand= why this > is such a big deal. > > > > Tony > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > > > Les, > > > > I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. > > > > See RFC 8570 says: > > > > Type Description > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft > literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pic= k > minimum value from ULD type 33 :) > > > > If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max > Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. > > > > That's all. > > > > Cheers, > R. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Tony =E2=80=93 > > > > As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why > you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point 33. > > > > RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: > > > > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > This sub-TLV contains two values: > > > > =E2=80=9CMin Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link = delay > > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > > an integer value. > > > > Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link delay > > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > > an integer value.=E2=80=9D > > > > It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min > Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. > > > > I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think > Peter has been very clear. > > Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? > > > > Les > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM > *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = ; > Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.or= g > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > > > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > > > section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: > > > Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. > > We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixe= d > with other delay values (max, average). > > > > > > The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional L= ink > Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, le= ading to the ambiguity. > Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it= =E2=80=99s > a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min. So type 33 see= ms > like a better match. > > > > > > section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: > > Type Description Encoding > Reference > --------------------------------------------------------- > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 > > > > > > And it also says: > > > > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 > > > > > > This does not help. > > > > > > So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue > adding the text you proposed below. > > > > > > What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of > specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. > > > > > > BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were > fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, a= s > you did not indicate otherwise. > > > > > > My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > > > > > > Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not > something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft= . > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important > clarification. > > > > You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least one= more > spin is required. > > > > Sorry, > > Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > --0000000000004aa55d05ad2bc8d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Les,

    > and conclude that this is rea= lly =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D is a leap that I cannot fol= low.=C2=A0=C2=A0

    I would never suggest to do t= hat.=C2=A0

    My suggestion was to rename "Min U= nidirectional Link Delay" to "minimum value of=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay" and move on= .=C2=A0

    Cheers,
    R.


    =

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:18 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
    <= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

    Tony/Robert =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    Whatever clarification Peter may choose to make woul= d be fine =E2=80=93 but I do question your casual ignoring of adjectives. =F0=9F=98= =8A

    =C2=A0

    There are three values being advertised:

    =C2=A0

    33 - Unidirectional Link Delay

    34 =E2=80=93 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0Meaning two values are advertised in this codepoint:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min= Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Max= Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    Now, the flex algo draft states: Min Unidirectional = Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    If you want to argue that =E2=80=9CMin Unidirectiona= l Link Delay=E2=80=9D !=3D =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80= =9D =E2=80=93 I think you are pedantically correct.

    =C2=A0

    But how that leads you to simply truncate =E2=80=9CM= in=E2=80=9D and conclude that this is really =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link D= elay=E2=80=9D is a leap that I cannot follow.

    =C2=A0

    Perhaps you don=E2=80=99t really like the fact that = RFC 8570 encoding combined Min/Max in a single codepoint =E2=80=93 but that= ship sailed years ago.

    =C2=A0

    Given that RFC 8570 is very clear in showing that th= e encoding includes:

    =C2=A0

    = <snip>

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0 0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 3

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 = 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Length=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |A| RESERVED=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Min Delay=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 RESERVED=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=

    = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+

    = <end snip>

    =C2=A0

    my ability to see your POV is somewhat limited.

    =C2=A0

    Perhaps you could own that a more careful reading is= possible?

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:03 AM
    To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
    Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.or= g; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Linde= m (acee) <acee@cisco= .com>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<= u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Robert,

    =C2=A0

    Thank you, exactly.

    =C2=A0

    We just need a clarification of the document.=C2=A0 = I don=E2=80=99t understand why this is such a big deal.

    =C2=A0

    Tony

    =C2=A0



    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>= wrote:

    =C2=A0

    Les,

    =C2=A0

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing= out.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    See RFC 8570 says:=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---------------------------------------=
-------------
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Unidir=
ectional Link Delay
    =C2=A0
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Ma=
x Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    That means that is someone implementing it reads tex= t in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Del= ay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say mi= nimum=C2=A0value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.=C2= =A0

    =C2=A0

    That's all.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Cheers,
    R.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsbe= rg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-a= pp, I am not sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirecte= d to code point 33.

    =C2=A0

    RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:

    =C2=A0

    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0

    =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries = the minimum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecond= s) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.<= /u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carr= ies the maximum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecond= s) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.=E2= =80=9D

    =C2=A0

    It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referrin= g to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

    =C2=A0

    I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifi= cations, but I think Peter has been very clear.

    Please explain how you managed to end up at code poi= nt 33??

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of to= ny.li@tony.li
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<= u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Hi Peter,

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:=


    Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot= be mixed with other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2= =80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional= Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you = leave things open to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you al= ways want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a better match.

    =C2=A0



    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    And it also says:

    =C2=A0

    33=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    This does not help.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient,= but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibi= lity, as writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.=C2=A0 We are n= ot there yet.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, = I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I t= hought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue an= d hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the f= lex-algo draft.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially re= solved, but important clarification.

    =C2=A0

    You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is boun= cing, so at least one more spin is required.

    =C2=A0

    Sorry,

    Tony

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

    =C2=A0

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boundary="_000_MN2PR13MB3117807C7FE0811A86A061D7F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 08992731-ba79-469b-2d2c-08d843aca30d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 19:26:42.0511 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: q/kuZlWb4H1A9Umt12Dw9UsU+DyfW7hPywqK9L9HZOKCQNaCxmX+o9Rqw23/0i+TS6DNGwOs/DymFYQt4RKJ9w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB3039 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:26:47 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB3117807C7FE0811A86A061D7F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support. Best Regards, Huaimo as a co-author ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_MN2PR13MB3117807C7FE0811A86A061D7F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support.

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo as a co-author
    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ie= tf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeti= ng and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chair= s feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area= -proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at a= rbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone= abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption cal= l for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection= to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

    --_000_MN2PR13MB3117807C7FE0811A86A061D7F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 12:32:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15073A0A74; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1XfSAhMLmk24; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67B9A3A0A2E; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id d4so9675216pjx.5; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=QPGRl8m+aMTidIyS1/N7iuBXF9NoVCYPjX3Jhnn59do=; b=A7r5FDTJO+TkfXB+oUFFcV2xXHUmBnBUKYBMUwxlQTt3ryZN981e1te9Wzh3ksGsT8 rOFV14y6VzjoNXg7/JhjsYYkN8huvhpp1jYkPUkjyQ33uN+Ir1RVXgqGbNGTwNEazMcV sSWaCkX2RnUfaj8yVhkbnDcJaZhGEHxXPugQDcLFYw9L5ypaCbJt7yIAHlAmRLtVXNNc vViqOIJBFrs7eoVK8+6phtEiRjfJHgoYGiit8AkEgxzcExPshbWpkMv/CFmRBAr4gxx9 qY1jbulywVhqbVHzW95om6OlafbEhBu+jeqse7dWXThkSolciFXcIStOP+X0e6S7ADN9 4+zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=QPGRl8m+aMTidIyS1/N7iuBXF9NoVCYPjX3Jhnn59do=; b=NzQYv3pjpeYDUbSqkMN0MNONoUcJ4bb3Xjq8AK0/yDvHZU9wA7TiPHILg0BqO4pmW7 GU7trDwke0Lm/Fx5nYZ6bhEplCczmJDbpX5mr6ZPpuO5vceDSdop6gMFeKwAn+XIIBi/ kaNNSrUmiS6BKjBB93Vj3MHK/CFqqslxJa0Msf/m7/bxIsyO2k4arWEz4A7iyRhQyrTB oPAnK8BGoFBVTbraFw+Wth3oD6RBpByfuWnR/ioCqSB+ki/2UNZTSNYz6XzUx6SjdtZb rEmJFjAeLVavM+bFzlzHC0k0AYbx5zKG7eLYFtF74iQmWthsB0CukdFd6stJE2CZ/ygD gOyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532IfilITxqyZ8HP0Ab+ZA1e5dRYR4eKlISKCdQ5ZFGzlqyVa3Ps mBlI82sDdxC60+Lf5yjBd30= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyt6qMWQwl+QCpvk7hXQKovTOdqn3MUFGjLI+tWKSIbIUbBN/GTuJHHBq/Y7qRdcUszS7dAyA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:bf93:: with SMTP id d19mr1204772pjs.82.1597779162705; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.83.122] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 13sm25936986pfp.3.2020.08.18.12.32.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_01C17280-6244-45A8-98DA-64471E961693" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 12:32:39 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Robert Raszuk , Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Peter Psenak To: Les Ginsberg References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:32:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_01C17280-6244-45A8-98DA-64471E961693 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, There is no TLV called the Min Unidirectional Link Delay. =20 If the document had said =E2=80=9CThe min delay of the Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D then there would be no confusion. Instead, it is the sloppy writing of ignoring the full name of the TLV = that has created ambiguity. Now, Peter has agreed to make a clarification, so: Why are we still fighting? Tony > On Aug 18, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = wrote: >=20 > Tony/Robert =E2=80=93 > =20 > Whatever clarification Peter may choose to make would be fine =E2=80=93 = but I do question your casual ignoring of adjectives. =F0=9F=98=8A > =20 > There are three values being advertised: > =20 > 33 - Unidirectional Link Delay > 34 =E2=80=93 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=20 > Meaning two values are advertised in this codepoint: > Min Unidirectional Link Delay > Max Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > Now, the flex algo draft states: Min Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > If you want to argue that =E2=80=9CMin Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= !=3D =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 I = think you are pedantically correct. > =20 > But how that leads you to simply truncate =E2=80=9CMin=E2=80=9D and = conclude that this is really =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D = is a leap that I cannot follow. > =20 > Perhaps you don=E2=80=99t really like the fact that RFC 8570 encoding = combined Min/Max in a single codepoint =E2=80=93 but that ship sailed = years ago. > =20 > Given that RFC 8570 is very clear in showing that the encoding = includes: > =20 > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Type | Length | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |A| RESERVED | Min Delay | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | RESERVED | Max Delay | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > =20 > my ability to see your POV is somewhat limited. > =20 > Perhaps you could own that a more careful reading is possible? > =20 > Les > =20 > =20 > From: Lsr On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:03 AM > To: Robert Raszuk > Cc: Christian Hopps ; = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = ; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; = Acee Lindem (acee) ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > =20 > =20 > Robert, > =20 > Thank you, exactly. > =20 > We just need a clarification of the document. I don=E2=80=99t = understand why this is such a big deal. > =20 > Tony > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: > =20 > Les, > =20 > I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.=20 > =20 > See RFC 8570 says:=20 > =20 > Type Description > ---------------------------------------------------- > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft = literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may = pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)=20 > =20 > If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.=20 > =20 > That's all.=20 > =20 > Cheers, > R. > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > wrote: > Tony =E2=80=93 > =20 > As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure = why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point = 33. > =20 > RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: > =20 > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > =20 > This sub-TLV contains two values: > =20 > =E2=80=9CMin Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured = link delay > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > an integer value. > =20 > Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link = delay > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > an integer value.=E2=80=9D > =20 > It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min = Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. > =20 > I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I = think Peter has been very clear. > Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? > =20 > Les > =20 > =20 > =20 > From: Lsr > On = Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM > To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org = ; Christian Hopps >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > =20 > =20 > Hi Peter, > =20 > =20 >=20 > section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >=20 > Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >=20 > We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be = mixed with other delay values (max, average). > =20 > =20 > The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional = Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= , leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open = to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you = always want to take the min. So type 33 seems like a better match. > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >=20 > Type Description Encoding > Reference > --------------------------------------------------------- > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >=20 > =20 > =20 > And it also says: > =20 > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 = > =20 > =20 > This does not help. > =20 > =20 >=20 > So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no = issue adding the text you proposed below. > =20 > =20 > What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers = of specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. > =20 > =20 >=20 > BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you = were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you = were, as you did not indicate otherwise. > =20 > =20 > My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > =20 > =20 >=20 > Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not = something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo = draft. > =20 > =20 > I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but = important clarification. > =20 > You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least = one more spin is required. > =20 > Sorry, > Tony > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr = --Apple-Mail=_01C17280-6244-45A8-98DA-64471E961693 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Les,

    There is no TLV called the Min = Unidirectional Link Delay.   

    If the document had said =E2=80=9CThe = min delay of the Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D then there = would be no confusion.

    Instead, it is the sloppy writing of ignoring the full name = of the TLV that has created ambiguity.

    Now, Peter has agreed to make a = clarification, so:

    = Why are we still fighting?

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 12:18 PM, = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:

    Tony/Robert= =E2=80=93
     
    Whatever clarification Peter may choose to make would be fine = =E2=80=93 but I do question your casual ignoring of adjectives. =F0=9F=98=8A
     
    There are = three values being advertised:
     
    33 - Unidirectional Link Delay
    34 =E2=80=93= Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay 
             Meaning = two values are advertised in this codepoint:
             Min = Unidirectional Link Delay
             Max = Unidirectional Link Delay
     
    Now, the flex algo draft states: Min Unidirectional Link = Delay
     
    If you = want to argue that =E2=80=9CMin Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D !=3D = =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 I think = you are pedantically correct.
     
    But how that leads you to simply = truncate =E2=80=9CMin=E2=80=9D and conclude that this is really = =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D is a leap that I cannot = follow.
     
    Perhaps you don=E2=80=99t really like the fact that RFC 8570 = encoding combined Min/Max in a single codepoint =E2=80=93 but that ship = sailed years ago.
     
    Given that RFC 8570 is very clear in showing that the = encoding includes:
     
    <snip>
       = 0            &= nbsp;      = 1            &= nbsp;      = 2            &= nbsp;      3
         0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
        = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        |   = Type        |     = Length    |
        = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        |A| RESERVED    = |            &= nbsp;      Min = Delay           &nb= sp;       |
        = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        |   RESERVED    = |            &= nbsp;      Max = Delay           &nb= sp;       |
        = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    <end = snip>
     
    my ability to see your POV is somewhat limited.
     
    Perhaps = you could own that a more careful reading is possible?
     
       Les
     
     
    From: Lsr= <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of tony.li@tony.li
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 = 10:03 AM
    To: Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net>
    Cc: Christian Hopps = <chopps@chopps.org>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org; Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; = lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) = <acee@cisco.com>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
     
     
    Robert,
     
    Thank you, exactly.
     
    We just need a clarification of the document.  I don=E2=80= =99t understand why this is such a big deal.
     
    Tony
     


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
     
    Les,
     
    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing = out. 
     
    See RFC 8570 says: 
     
          =
Type    Description
          =
----------------------------------------------------
           33   =
  Unidirectional Link Delay
     
           =
34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay
     
    That means that is someone implementing = it reads text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of = Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 = :) 
     
    If you want to be precise this draft may say = minimum value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be = done. 
     
    That's all. 
     
    Cheers,
    R.
     
     
     
    On Tue, = Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= wrote:
    Tony =E2=80=93
     
    As an = author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why you = are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point 33.
     
    RFC 8570 = (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:
     
    34 =           Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay
     
    This sub-TLV contains two values:
     
    =E2=80=9CMi= n Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link = delay
          value (in microseconds) over a = configurable interval, encoded as
          an = integer value.
     
       Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the = maximum measured link delay
          value = (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as
          an integer value.=E2=80=9D
     
    It seems = clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min Unidirectional Link = Delay in codepoint 34.
     
    I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, = but I think Peter has been very clear.
    Please explain how you managed to end = up at code point 33??
     
       Les
     
     
     
    From: Lsr= <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of tony.li@tony.li
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 = 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian = Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo
     
     
    Hi = Peter,
     

     

    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:

    Min Unidirectional Link = Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this = cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average).
     
     
    The problem is that that does not = exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/= Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. = Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, = it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the = min.  So type 33 seems like a better match.

     



    section = 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type =   Description =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Encoding
              &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp;       Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link = Delay    RFC8570

     
     
    And it also says:
     
    33      Unidirectional Link =
Delay            =
RFC8570
     
     
    This does not help.
     

     

    So, IMHO = what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding = the text you proposed below.
     
     
    What you have now is ambiguous. We have = a responsibility, as writers of specifications, to be precise and = clear.  We are not there yet.
     

     

    BTW, before I posted 09 version of = flex-algo draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing = ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate = otherwise.
     
     
    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.
     

     

    Anyway, I consider this as a pure = editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to = object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft.
     
     
    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is = trivially resolved, but important clarification.
     
    You also have an author=E2=80=99s email = that is bouncing, so at least one more spin is required.
     
    Sorry,
    Tony
     
    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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Received: by mail-ej1-x629.google.com with SMTP id kq25so23719893ejb.3 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 13:57:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oX3od/Y3qcDPSxkCQlFLHxIIwyNE3qG+c4jvb2mazgs=; b=Iv0bLVsyy0uUZQTc0+JY7bvH2uyJztq85TdfKlMKeSjApzvF+KUzS/4E+TkfcvUkUX Z7ICD4tLprS75Ss6MqSGVcJg3TXFJu6GMoZGpXIlaYXFFuGCZ3eoFUNqt8GhUH0zgG9t ANKNwwXZdj8/3J4CCXtka5F4JULB6I4GCYfnkqH9u5Xjt/auNj5mzSCuJdw95KpsRRvJ UTmvRvvN3J/IgsgOqZymU1IudG/hJPAuEIvuFnYqT0z8l+3Kn+6iyg9WXzxKC1BWwIlO 0FIgpwxDm/dGcgDUjiS5CrPARg2aPMQVL6LvUYC8dBu2xWDwTz0XYBVKqLPNWu/G1Rwp Xgpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oX3od/Y3qcDPSxkCQlFLHxIIwyNE3qG+c4jvb2mazgs=; b=AL519CCHeyXhVij0ZsBf1gHU22oT1GrP/O3hji2SIMM2lOcnkbx4L5o1KxnVt2cQrN 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X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 20:57:07 -0000 --0000000000001c96c505ad2d21f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I support WG adoption of draft-chen-isis-ttz as experimental. Chris On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000001c96c505ad2d21f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I support WG adoption of=20 draft-chen-isis-ttz as experimental.

    Chris

    On T= ue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
    <= /div>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

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    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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15.20.3283.028; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:06:39 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRA Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:06:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dmarc.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc.ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [99.108.166.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f5f23d18-4744-424f-0346-08d843ba99ea x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2695: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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DM5PR05MB3388.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9f5c6942-cf5e-4d06-2e94-08d843bb18e7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 21:10:12.7964 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cb69zxz67+dT+kuHTHOY+7rqUBMSVMceALOYux3ECfC2NPqi1tWyk+TrGrOi0AB0X8bWp4lhHNW0HBBGXSyb4g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB6570 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-08-18_14:2020-08-18, 2020-08-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008180149 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:10:19 -0000 --_000_DM5PR05MB338848F1CE7C8CE467ADF1DCC75C0DM5PR05MB3388namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As am I. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: Lsr On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:07 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt [External Email. Be cautious of content] I see no need for "abstraction at arbitrary boundaries". Areas work just fi= ne. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in "smooth transition to/fro= m zone abstraction". If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_DM5PR05MB338848F1CE7C8CE467ADF1DCC75C0DM5PR05MB3388namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    As am I.=

     

    Yours Irrespectivel= y,

     

    John

     

     

    Juniper Business Use Only

    From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:07 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; ls= r@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    <= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

     

    I see no need for &= #8220;abstraction at arbitrary boundaries”. Areas work just fine.

     

    IS-IS already has s= mooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas.<= /p>

     

    Given both of the p= oints above, I see no value in “smooth transition to/from zone abstra= ction”.

     

    If these are the pr= incipal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compared to area proxy (an= d I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this solution should be= pursued as well.

     

    I am therefore oppo= sed to WG adoption of TTZ.

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discus= sions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen= -isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differences with d= raft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences i= nclude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth = transition to/from zone abstraction.

     

    We are now starting= an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate yo= ur support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,<= /span>

    Acee and Chris

     

    --_000_DM5PR05MB338848F1CE7C8CE467ADF1DCC75C0DM5PR05MB3388namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 14:25:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8008F3A0D01 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X9yRmdzmHTfN for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x636.google.com (mail-ej1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE23F3A0CFC for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x636.google.com with SMTP id o23so23834422ejr.1 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BuOVict9kbsxOHnPQCWzsvyLbe5aU8blE3P1+jvSw0o=; b=RHcHlOrXybprCXpq2KqohkYMNlwzxrZg/tWnvHnvSRebXlC2+cGkg04dyrCFVwEEHb lMrrkwEsl32nNIEDye1VXfzIEJcN9+Ytv56k+RZfvPtt5uDK2nK8ND74WpsZ5PCU9NAU jEREjVyzYJMBunMZk+M2p8oQtuLwCFdKtCEDPMDjka7EE7I91HWIWTV7iR3QL325SsZX nJ3QkZwyUllXv8SKILaL4tRsOv3Nlb+TM8D6bzzO0U7ZNAYxTTKRBk4Ht7vlU4EWZJvM pdQFeHhtXnVPJn/tCNBTyxzSnpqYvkr6h+22heSrlrjLiwGTL3Z0bH8H5yKVdWAFxL/+ DF1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BuOVict9kbsxOHnPQCWzsvyLbe5aU8blE3P1+jvSw0o=; b=rMMqYEFNh0y3W21sDvQ2x/3b8PbYeI1egWcjTr9rl0Q0HrxswJEcvEgWSLWummrSxL RyYWePBFR+bzFf5GsLZOf3tHAZ6TmsCQ9WcplFt2llXY/RDYTGIT8/N7x6FX7v65TgpO o/kJW95wgV6aYGjpjbyIo7KQY13J2cqa5c4kekG306tgDICIIDl2rT5Jwmg9psToDh+r 7AprdKcPaNClqWsaYPDt9IaTJ4fX3MKlGsUGi9rg/2eSbuKgzOwX0B7TeATTXEC05OQ4 NMmnU22TphxSFSqor6XlX06OaNXXv+Jc0ep9E61MBS1Df+cMhuwceeM2QmOZaJMIMZtf VKrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5333nRNfOk5NjihI/O2Q4sDghWZzr1hvJFA4KUK8/Zyel76Bunc2 dqQmsU00ZaMJitp/C+19Y3p6ZYuwStxfZfypU+3gxA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmwbRvIaSV2lUVZ1K5XV41Dv/KW3An8AGRVvk45nFIRaxSlbXA7lS7fxXygVrNCVAUWk6fpiZyYIjwlnFlu+k= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2490:: with SMTP id e16mr21831327ejb.386.1597785923365; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:25:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 23:25:13 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000063c97105ad2d86d3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:25:27 -0000 --00000000000063c97105ad2d86d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear WG, The draft in question does not describe even a single practical use case. While it describes the mechanics on how to construct the new model of the abstraction it fails to prove we need it. Not everything which can be invented should be standardized or implemented therefore until the document extensively describes the real use cases with justification why use of areas may not be sufficient for such use cases I don't think LSR WG should adopt it. Regards, Robert. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:17 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --00000000000063c97105ad2d86d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Dear WG,

    The draft in question does not= describe even a single practical use case.=C2=A0

    = While it describes the mechanics on how to construct the new model of the a= bstraction it fails to prove we need it.=C2=A0

    Not= everything which can be invented should be standardized or implemented the= refore until the document extensively describes the real use cases with jus= tification why use of areas may not be sufficient for such use cases I don&= #39;t think LSR WG should adopt it.=C2=A0

    Regards,=
    Robert.

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:17 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <ace= e=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or= g> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:33:00 +0000 From: Huaimo Chen To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRAgAACWkw= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:33:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dmarc.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc.ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [73.114.233.24] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1b1a35e2-6790-4d76-08c5-08d843be4851 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR13MB2848: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: o/kdim2/xT4NKjmlg82pAnWul+QJB8FozHkFG3Dcl0/+Ns1h/QCg6GQ5Hsapic87kbBaJsBhirxg4uIQpa8bGiIFvqJwsGi6YUvmbR8m3UlHYmHDqVOJBhvz4IcaQdU3GdYATIa2cDddPO2dUKJUim4o8fTYN5cvUlgNIOPxr2VKE8zAzxGdS0VVtDReI4HmUYKlmD54D0roYd83rUSjWv/imWsuqpPw5OtP9LnlWuS5PZSAmA6AXbvQBP5Prsqrbgq5U1Fq5VBUQI00DgBvr0Vrv72cCjWQx1gcp9jOorw4yQqVZXDXqFuvIQU8APeY1HEdQ9NE7X+zv7qm3wl5QQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_MN2PR13MB3117C2EB2A0275AAC50671D1F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1b1a35e2-6790-4d76-08c5-08d843be4851 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 21:33:00.7233 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: KalIAT4DX4/I07ma09aSd1rDKZmOul/gIIbCqnq8Cq87bX/8+02RyKosRXzA4EEvul9JMAOFAe2JVCAXfBFmMg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB2848 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:33:04 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB3117C2EB2A0275AAC50671D1F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, > I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work j= ust fine. > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s. [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS= will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is= being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to= /from zone abstraction=94. [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the ser= vice interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a s= ingle node and vice versa. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work jus= t fine. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction=94. If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_MN2PR13MB3117C2EB2A0275AAC50671D1F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Les,

    > I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas = work just fine.
    > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas= .
       
    [HC]: The smooth = transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS will not re= duce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single node because the adj= acency ups and downs. 

    > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth= transition to/from zone abstraction=94.

    [HC]:  The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the service int= erruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single node and vice versa.

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo
    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com= @dmarc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; ls= r@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

    I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitr= ary boundaries=94. Areas work just fine.

     

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capabi= lity for merging/splitting areas.

     

    Given both of the points above, I see no v= alue in =93smooth transition to/from zone abstraction=94.

     

    If these are the principal distinguishing = characteristics of TTZ as compared to area proxy (and I would agree they ar= e), then I see no reason why this solution should be pursued as well.

     

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of T= TZ.

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeti= ng and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chair= s feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area= -proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at a= rbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone= abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption cal= l for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection= to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:59:29 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Huaimo Chen , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRAgAACWkyAAAswwA== Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:59:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: futurewei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;futurewei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [99.108.166.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: de3e8bb5-506e-4e71-d3de-08d843c1fb40 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2856: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: JVfU+8u8WQ2uamvkbcR6N9Lc3OhKULXtmcMcv6Ny8+gUHrbG0+wkdTwJPCBUiil2BJSIFg5q7tEXhVfISuhUL3HxLaNrAgkSeuzQq4ZYoAZdb+gbxqrRz8cuS6kGVnzkNvwrMFVGJk0p66LTlKYicA8tR3hpYLa/8D4GioUvlW64fXs77TRb/h1vHtmHUcgQBEsjVQSi7i9C+Mm118BekL09FrqcS+ZeBtF2+flLSBivWyOyF6Tgef/bibHHs7JnjVsQ2TkJU1XmXYALmOtntsPzTlLbFB+6q7AmoXLIOAyXBCRgHEwODWJ3kIGKJs8amVituv1fTS3TpI3X16zAJA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BY5PR11MB4337CC18142C5355FB00BB80C15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: de3e8bb5-506e-4e71-d3de-08d843c1fb40 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 21:59:29.4784 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: XaJ2bvR/AtxeRjtXDvjGL0s0lbKzDUgrBGcSHImo23ukG1Ztvez/N2Yxs0Ggp3t3sHvpOVug9dUQ7I6guYiz2w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2856 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 21:59:34 -0000 --_000_BY5PR11MB4337CC18142C5355FB00BB80C15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Huaimo - It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. The technique has been known for many years. It requires careful planning - but it is quite feasible and has been done. You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis. Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Acee L= indem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > I see no need for "abstraction at arbitrary boundaries". Areas work just = fine. > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s.. [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS= will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is= being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. > Given both of the points above, I see no value in "smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction". [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the ser= vice interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a s= ingle node and vice versa. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr > on behalf of = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I see no need for "abstraction at arbitrary boundaries". Areas work just fi= ne. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in "smooth transition to/fro= m zone abstraction". If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_BY5PR11MB4337CC18142C5355FB00BB80C15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Huaimo –

     

    It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacenc= y flaps.

    The technique has been known for many years.

    It requires careful planning – but it is quite= feasible and has been done.

     

    You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis.=

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Huaimo Chen
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or= g>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ie= tf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les,=

    &n= bsp;

    > = I see no need for “abstraction at arbitrary boundaries”. Areas = work just fine.

    > = IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas.= .

      =  

    [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s in IS-IS will not reduce the service interruption while an existing = area or zone is being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. 

    &n= bsp;

    > = Given both of the points above, I see no value in “smooth transition = to/from zone abstraction”.

    &n= bsp;

    [HC]:  The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction&= quot; will reduce the service interruption while an existing area= or zone is being abstracted as a single node and vice versa.

    &n= bsp;

    Best Re= gards,

    Huaimo<= o:p>

    From: Lsr <lsr= -bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dm= arc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    I see no need for “abstraction at arbitrary b= oundaries”. Areas work just fine.

     <= /span>

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for = merging/splitting areas.=

     <= /span>

    Given both of the points above, I see no value in &= #8220;smooth transition to/from zone abstraction”.

     <= /span>

    If these are the principal distinguishing character= istics of TTZ as compared to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then = I see no reason why this solution should be pursued as well.

     <= /span>

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ.

     <= /span>

       Les

     <= /span>

     <= /span>

     <= /span>

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     <= /span>

     <= /span>

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on= the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs fe= el that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03= and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     <= /span>

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary = boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstract= ion.

     <= /span>

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for dra= ft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adopt= ion prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     <= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

     <= /span>

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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:18:24 +0000 From: Huaimo Chen To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRAgAACWkyAAAswwIAAAtBB Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:18:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [73.114.233.24] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3d91b844-0f64-41e3-fba9-08d843c4a000 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR13MB3550: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: pDF6NdjHRhornUjf8orzAMXIF/bob30jn5Jc10wfWqu7Wtz0Mz/0TSTHU9tpLi8KqZZx08r+ojpyEbJDGuCKp4GiJPNxboXGsGedgYbqB8Zs7DZ7+aCq2mzBTR9KP2uBY6Cz4mGReO5foDQZ6yQ/6VMdazvG2GxUaQOutd6LTUum+qDBcOTzUANORZpCbhNvKXNNvV3ODQErqf0BITR+B83h1PFtsIzJxVApHbTk0PYSsd3ZT0y8W87jSNlwybdbiIa1T4XYpx/DeOsE48wPocu5ybTcL09Q3JAiYlJWM+iPhyD1zwOfrJRcMJQpWVz+T+bxMlrO7zeFdWspgg3Kiw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_MN2PR13MB3117E8AE76A4A22ECD649B68F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3d91b844-0f64-41e3-fba9-08d843c4a000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 22:18:24.8935 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 3V9RFwTx99P2BdeoZWX4GdJ4IqDSgtZMRIdD1rWdxwBJ56RwEqvwBwbL7Dsq08YAR7Ja7raWM8ibKjzFNTu84A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB3550 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:18:35 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB3117E8AE76A4A22ECD649B68F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, > It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single no= de or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/= splitting without adjacency flaps has been done before this abstraction and= will not reduce the service interruption during the abstraction. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM To: Huaimo Chen ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Huaimo =96 It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. The technique has been known for many years. It requires careful planning =96 but it is quite feasible and has been done= . You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis. Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Acee L= indem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work j= ust fine. > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s.. [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS= will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is= being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to= /from zone abstraction=94. [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the ser= vice interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a s= ingle node and vice versa. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr > on behalf of = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work jus= t fine. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction=94. If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_MN2PR13MB3117E8AE76A4A22ECD649B68F25C0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Les,

        > It is possible to merge/split areas with= out adjacency flaps.
        [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single node or vice vers= a, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/splitting witho= ut adjacency flaps has been done before this abstraction and will not reduc= e the service interruption during the abstraction. 

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo
    From: Les Ginsberg (ginsber= g) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM
    To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; Les Ginsberg (gin= sberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) &l= t;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org><= br> Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

    Huaimo =96

     

    It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps.

    The technique has been known for many years.

    It requires careful planning =96 but it is quite feasible and has been done= .

     

    You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis.

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Huaimo Ch= en
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or= g>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ie= tf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les,

     

    > I see no need for =93a= bstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work just fine.

    > IS-IS already has smoo= th transition capability for merging/splitting areas..

       

    [HC]: The s= mooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS will = not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being= abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. 

     

    > Given both of the poin= ts above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/from zone abstraction= =94.

     

    [HC]: = The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduc= e the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being abs= tracted as a single node and vice versa.

     

    Best Regards,

    Huaimo

    From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work jus= t fine.

     

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas.=

     

    Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction=94.

     

    If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well.

     

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ.

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ie= tf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough= differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to= consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:52:08 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Huaimo Chen , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRAgAACWkyAAAswwIAAAtBBgAAGkAA= Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:52:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: futurewei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;futurewei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [99.108.166.100] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6ad1b43c-1dc3-4836-7b70-08d843c95627 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB3638: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: PtSM6YC2/+dTd/PAQ9vhiqgIKqRCQeeWSBL29tdrJE1OQDyxHBZtSvVmkULMVij4SaLqStoGwZAvHjgghxJtL5BNortTlvwcDnEFFP1z5bUT9AqvfQzaOwwqyQXhhujnhDIUSGn+UsXr52cC65oA9fRkAR83mc32EtFOt4JyQR8VBc2RXE15ILcS9B7B4+1j1Rvq4oFAVM5+0iWtVVcUCL5gM5AM231qCYJtVShL5mELwsLC2pZz2EMrAz6terfHKl+DDcd+/Y/BmNrnn2n97Rx9ZhoTinCKIzU2sxi2LoarSoZFFrmZR5x5GdOAEgB0u++3GOAS6o1b+QfrIpypEA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BY5PR11MB4337FDF6AD2773B7DB70D67EC15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6ad1b43c-1dc3-4836-7b70-08d843c95627 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 22:52:08.4771 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: A/nrXYOvBsCWFyyTLtQ9BpP2m2LMGOdy6fmVG7onnP320UslWUyurh058V2oumNZa9+6reUy7a46fKveDW4BMQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3638 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 22:52:15 -0000 --_000_BY5PR11MB4337FDF6AD2773B7DB70D67EC15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Huaimo - The question I and others have asked is "what can we do with zones that can= not be done with areas?". >From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was first presented, your an= swer has been "with zones you can hitlessly alter the topological boundarie= s". My response has consistently been "we can already do that with areas". If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use case = that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly. Continuing to focus on something that can already be done with areas isn't = helping you. Les From: Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single no= de or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/= splitting without adjacency flaps has been done before this abstraction and= will not reduce the service interruption during the abstraction. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM To: Huaimo Chen >; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org= > Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Huaimo - It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. The technique has been known for many years. It requires careful planning - but it is quite feasible and has been done. You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org= Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > I see no need for "abstraction at arbitrary boundaries". Areas work just = fine. > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s.. [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS= will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is= being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. > Given both of the points above, I see no value in "smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction". [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the ser= vice interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a s= ingle node and vice versa. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr > on behalf of = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I see no need for "abstraction at arbitrary boundaries". Areas work just fi= ne. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in "smooth transition to/fro= m zone abstraction". If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_BY5PR11MB4337FDF6AD2773B7DB70D67EC15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Huaimo –

     

    The question I and others have asked is “what = can we do with zones that cannot be done with areas?”.

     

    From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was fi= rst presented,  your answer has been “with zones you can hitless= ly alter the topological boundaries”.

    My response has consistently been “we can alre= ady do that with areas”.


    If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use case = that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly.

    Continuing to focus on something that can already be= done with areas isn’t helping you.

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.c= om>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Les Ginsberg= (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (ace= e) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les,=

    &n= bsp;

      =   > It i= s possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps.

        [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracte= d as a single node or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/splitting without adjacency fla= ps has been done before this abstraction and will not reduce the service in= terruption during the abstraction. 

    &n= bsp;

    Best Re= gards,

    Huaimo<= o:p>

    From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM
    To: Huaimo Chen <hua= imo.chen@futurewei.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Huaimo –

     

    It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacen= cy flaps.

    The technique has been known for many years.

    It requires careful planning – but it is quit= e feasible and has been done.

     

    You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis= .

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Li= ndem (acee) <acee= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les= ,

     =

    >= I see no need for “abstraction at arbitrary boundaries”. Areas= work just fine.

    >= IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas= ..

     =  

    [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting are= as in IS-IS will not reduce the service interruption while an existing= area or zone is being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. 

     =

    >= Given both of the points above, I see no value in “smooth transition= to/from zone abstraction”.

     =

    [HC]:  The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction= " will reduce the service interruption while an existing are= a or zone is being abstracted as a single node and vice versa.<= /o:p>

     =

    Best R= egards,

    Huaimo=

    From: Lsr <ls= r-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dm= arc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    I see no need for “abstraction at arbitrary = boundaries”. Areas work just fine.

     

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for= merging/splitting areas.

     

    Given both of the points above, I see no value in = “smooth transition to/from zone abstraction”.

     

    If these are the principal distinguishing characte= ristics of TTZ as compared to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then= I see no reason why this solution should be pursued as well.

     

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ.=

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and o= n the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs f= eel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-0= 3 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary= boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstrac= tion.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for dr= aft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adop= tion prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

    --_000_BY5PR11MB4337FDF6AD2773B7DB70D67EC15C0BY5PR11MB4337namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 17:49:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C203A1073; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6ttD0rxaVLc; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua1-x936.google.com (mail-ua1-x936.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::936]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFBFE3A1071; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua1-x936.google.com with SMTP id k18so5274625uao.11; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7VclS6AjsFuROF0kGzb1sTBli2tldLs/B1YqSb2ucD0=; b=W1iYa698L6UmfjFwRvJS8s9TC6wZlc+mguH2SNay9zyTb5fSPtYYdDPuXpJaML4GtG 87fmfddzLM5SZSZmPi0ygHySAtbQAYajQsvAyo5FlNkVNFdMLLdKdPH7xE3JS/w+8n/Z 7jTtfaNtqBP9Ui2RZ7u8nViq92+dhmQ2EuzccYaRkn2w/lISTmxQLAf8FzUrhTBtQEju pB8kcHUr0wV4/zmQ50+w1tpXzcMh3T4X6C7la5hGBkqN089sO3C7szpjzJNVLq4Q+lte 96eatcvAKqH61+/6heZczOdR9OvAtNwYZBPrdV3F2vDUsaW1fGK3/hoGidTPrKRRldwW hsbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7VclS6AjsFuROF0kGzb1sTBli2tldLs/B1YqSb2ucD0=; b=uS/STlkvVA8T6HkaHz4I6qCXB38OjdasXdqBJ0Bat07qJNnYLlkBJljo1ZFWQLMiqX IZ2OBK2m5HmeDBuQPHwymN3rf4g4BEB9TjsZy5sPhYPoDtN7WvZmgkcijWwELA6bwrvg ydmmLv4a8450lVbmgjbbQtpEtpS4+Mieu8iROqpaaPiVX/y/9eCqQd/EWSU1q5pzKuev JxmNewlyqD1UBFSi3HsJkiRvb1MldqKe4+1vewP4U3b/Wfdb6r87g7gKFcKEPCqLGrZW j1z9Fd9PdDoInm0QwdpuqPqxlWvonGFu8wy6K4ulTtKk+rwvDscJIO8LQCt5to0bH3nA chpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531g0C/iilXPTN/anxgQWVa5syEl8bIPfCtsgSftXNPE/Q2DQfUR 7HsA66y0mFVQszFWEjQXOzS2kD+BSZm6k4OiFqQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqduhhdRiQ04MtGsYGj35a1yvufZyjVJkRfcHx+LgImKnHvHLMfsQh1P0ThFi5FeR15ocuFNj17VseFhZfxPU= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:226b:: with SMTP id 98mr12357090uad.94.1597798188691; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:49:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kiran Makhijani Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075b3e205ad3061bb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:49:52 -0000 --00000000000075b3e205ad3061bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any IPRs associated with the draft. Liu Kiran Makhijani =E4=BA=8E2020=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8818= =E6=97=A5=E5=91=A8=E4=BA=8C =E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=881:51=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC= =9A > Hi, > > I am not aware of any undeclared IPR for this draft. > > -Kiran > > > > *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:24 AM > *To:* draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - > draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt > > > > Authors, > > > > The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specifie= d > here: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ > > > > > > > Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > > response has been received from each author and contributor. > > > > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > --00000000000075b3e205ad3061bb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I am not aware of any IPRs associated=C2=A0with the draft.= =C2=A0

    Liu=C2=A0

    Kiran Makhijani <kiranm@futurewei.com> =E4=BA=8E2020=E5= =B9=B48=E6=9C=8818=E6=97=A5=E5=91=A8=E4=BA=8C =E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=881:51=E5=86= =99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

    Hi,

    I am not aware of any= undeclared IPR for this draft.

    -Kiran<= /span>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    =C2=A0

    Authors,

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    The IETF IPRs declara= tions submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/=

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Are you aware of any = other IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz?

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If so, has this IPR b= een disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<= /p>

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879,= 3669 and 5378 for more details).

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are listed as = a document author or contributor please respond

    to this email regardl= ess of whether or not you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The re= sponse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document w= ill not advance to the next stage until a

    response has been rec= eived from each author and contributor.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are on the LSR= WG email list but are not listed as an author or

    contributor, then ple= ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not = yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee

    --00000000000075b3e205ad3061bb-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 17:53:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25603A1075 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:53:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XeD8oSwytNsu for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D61D13A1073 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id t13so19234559ile.9 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:52:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YJZLDyLs93HPQn3DP2DIZlchBOSX9S/eaZ99+VuN3cM=; b=QuJcZm8w+7T04fFEQkATh7pVF6O1yPbxNlVqEtbJUkI2UXitT+C4wsrcLZxfWnQ45/ vjXqwNHczwbxOIlA4V9xS0iYG70vEMV5Lu5qr/sKaug9PmHpm7AmmoirRT4PRQ9zeC2v 6V3Im/BfYG3Ls6GmTJ4oLd5PIPkF3mTs0lexXVCcCrNO8PcNe1o1m1479iTSeoJnqOKL EfIstqYqCVuCY/FBa9fuaqSIU/uOoHt1fcft7YYsC3As2+d5oPiX0PorURx07GFDVMD5 AlcIX5WdairB9IzzzO/Osm0MJr75x7QJn+qwJtVrwhVTdSvPcaFh9zWGGWjKGkWDDoEV +tdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YJZLDyLs93HPQn3DP2DIZlchBOSX9S/eaZ99+VuN3cM=; b=Rs8poyf57TOPV1QgBl/eDZT6C3yvj5paQJFxLjj4S2416DGrZMcAGfM+hIdQWfK6+k Q/WfJCGL2V2AewVP1v90AT0K0+0pZyGbcBptlt1qwVhwoeCiU+jQ3FgKqcK1DqORQBkZ +dbS6kYaf5XYsHt/60bIIAw65sembuhFviwphg1ndwaNxeD4vqCDn/BmjNs0+4z8UXrr dn/yTazvxlZ/V3CI1wQaAWUpmtpGiufswAVO0EQlJ3k/fgzYVZkPFeUTkBwtMM3iw2HC J6jz1w2INiXuc+UsxfxcXVDNZxBycDl5iwVd9DMhX4SGlnR3DCGZHew1h0QDI0XGXQ9D UZKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53132y4C4YG26uPUD3P2tiaFMwO/4XQyQ6ZnFWiBaV87U01UHLjw JD27cWHNO/qNoZDEoGRv//wLWVoJ6nDuGJCihKE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVTWXNVUZLMar4eVOwHiFMGaNgmfdpZR+SwugQiNm7vioa1KpBmRAY9II4TbfEKFdrSBC2P07BOBPKkGv7p54= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c042:: with SMTP id o2mr19152941ilf.150.1597798375974; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:52:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Liu Vic Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:52:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: Huaimo Chen , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f6d7e05ad306c3b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:53:01 -0000 --0000000000009f6d7e05ad306c3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support as co-author. Thanks, Liu Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) =E4=BA=8E20= 20=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8818=E6=97=A5=E5=91=A8=E4=BA=8C =E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=883:52=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A > Huaimo =E2=80=93 > > > > The question I and others have asked is =E2=80=9Cwhat can we do with zone= s that > cannot be done with areas?=E2=80=9D. > > > > From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was first presented, your > answer has been =E2=80=9Cwith zones you can hitlessly alter the topologic= al > boundaries=E2=80=9D. > > My response has consistently been =E2=80=9Cwe can already do that with ar= eas=E2=80=9D. > > > If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use cas= e > that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly. > > Continuing to focus on something that can already be done with areas isn= =E2=80=99t > helping you. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Huaimo Chen > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Les Ginsberg > (ginsberg) ; Acee Lindem (acee) > ; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" > - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > Hi Les, > > > > > It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. > > [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single > node or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas > merging/splitting without adjacency flaps has been done before this > abstraction and will not reduce the service interruption during the > abstraction. > > > > Best Regards, > > Huaimo > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM > *To:* Huaimo Chen ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < > ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf..org >; > Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org < > lsr@ietf.org> > *Subject:* RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" > - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > Huaimo =E2=80=93 > > > > It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. > > The technique has been known for many years. > > It requires careful planning =E2=80=93 but it is quite feasible and has b= een done. > > > > You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis.. > > > > Les > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of *Huaimo Chen > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM > *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Acee Lindem (acee) < > acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent > Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > Hi Les, > > > > > I see no need for =E2=80=9Cabstraction at arbitrary boundaries=E2=80=9D= . Areas work just > fine. > > > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting > areas... > > > > [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in > IS-IS will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or > zone is being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and > downs. > > > > > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =E2=80=9Csmooth trans= ition > to/from zone abstraction=E2=80=9D. > > > > [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the > service interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted a= s > a single node and vice versa. > > > > Best Regards, > > Huaimo > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) < > ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.or= g < > lsr@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent > Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > I see no need for =E2=80=9Cabstraction at arbitrary boundaries=E2=80=9D. = Areas work just > fine. > > > > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s. > > > > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =E2=80=9Csmooth transit= ion > to/from zone abstraction=E2=80=9D. > > > > If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as > compared to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason > why this solution should be pursued as well. > > > > I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. > > > > Les > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM > *To:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent > Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community t= o > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000009f6d7e05ad306c3b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support as co-author.

    Thanks,
    Liu

    Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> =E4=BA=8E2020=E5=B9= =B48=E6=9C=8818=E6=97=A5=E5=91=A8=E4=BA=8C =E4=B8=8B=E5=8D=883:52=E5=86=99= =E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

    Huaimo =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    The question I and others have asked is =E2=80=9Cwha= t can we do with zones that cannot be done with areas?=E2=80=9D.<= /u>

    =C2=A0

    From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was fi= rst presented,=C2=A0 your answer has been =E2=80=9Cwith zones you can hitle= ssly alter the topological boundaries=E2=80=9D.

    My response has consistently been =E2=80=9Cwe can al= ready do that with areas=E2=80=9D.


    If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use case = that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly.<= u>

    Continuing to focus on something that can already be= done with areas isn=E2=80=99t helping you.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> <= br> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ;ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org>; lsr@iet= f.org
    Subject: Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

    =C2=A0

    Hi Les,

    = =C2=A0

    =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 >=C2=A0It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps.

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstrac= ted as a single node or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/splitting without adjacency fla= ps has been done before this abstraction and will not reduce the service in= terruption during the abstraction.=C2=A0

    = =C2=A0

    Best Rega= rds,

    Huaimo=

    From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM
    To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &= lt;ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf..org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <<= a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

    =C2=A0

    Huaimo =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps.

    The technique has been known for many years.

    It requires careful planning =E2=80=93 but it is quite feasible and has = been done.

    =C2=A0

    You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis..

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o= rg>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

    =C2=A0

    Hi Les,<= /p>

    =C2=A0

    > I see no need = for =E2=80=9Cabstraction at arbitrary boundaries=E2=80=9D. Areas work just = fine.

    > IS-IS already = has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas...

    =C2=A0 =C2=A0

    [HC]: The sm= ooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS will=C2=A0n= ot reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being = abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    > Given both of = the points above, I see no value in =E2=80=9Csmooth transition to/from zone= abstraction=E2=80=9D.

    =C2=A0

    [HC]:=C2=A0 = The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will=C2=A0reduce= the service interruption=C2=A0while an existing area or zone is being abst= racted as a single node and vice versa.

    =C2=A0

    Best Regards,

    Huaimo

    From: Lsr <lsr-b= ounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

    =C2=A0

    I see no need for =E2=80=9Cabstraction at arbitrary boundaries=E2=80=9D.= Areas work just fine.

    =C2=A0

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting are= as.

    =C2=A0

    Given both of the points above, I see no value in =E2=80=9Csmooth transi= tion to/from zone abstraction=E2=80=9D.

    =C2=A0

    If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as comp= ared to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why t= his solution should be pursued as well.

    =C2=A0

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list reg= arding=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are eno= ugh differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community= to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS = extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.t= xt. Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday,= September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cb79b00d-00d1-44a1-1f94-08d843ebaa0e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Aug 2020 02:57:52.0124 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HUt16N8Qos3RHNChC6um2Prsi9b7TQ+MYqhXLHIc5nssyKgk6YD3GH2x7cWNUcPCgayqkRyGWgZswxrMkZz2qA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3111 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 02:57:57 -0000 --_000_BYAPR13MB2279EE15337B9BEE0D579156875D0BYAPR13MB2279namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support it. Yes, indeed, this draft is sufficiently different from draft-ietf-lsr-isis-= area-proxy-03 and should be advanced independently. Best regards, Richard ________________________________ From: Lsr > on behalf of = Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM To: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_BYAPR13MB2279EE15337B9BEE0D579156875D0BYAPR13MB2279namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I support it.

     

    Yes, indeed, this draft is sufficiently different fr= om draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and should be advanced independently.<= o:p>

     

    Best regards,

     

    Richard

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr= -bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM
    To:     lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     <= /span>

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on= the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs fe= el that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03= and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     <= /span>

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary = boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstract= ion.

     <= /span>

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for dra= ft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adopt= ion prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     <= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

     <= /span>

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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t4U-o5zL9jbK for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com (mail-ej1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 640B83A1092 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id m22so25040119eje.10 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:25:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HOlSeTQEPtZH2np6NAm8kEYKoUfCcA3EjyQiDkfgF8g=; 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text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Richard, I understand that these days you say "5G" and you are done for any use case. :) So I read this paper: https://www.etsi.org/images/files/ETSIWhitePapers/etsi_wp28_mec_in_5G_FINAL= .pdf There is nothing there which would indicate a need for zone or even area separation to effectively deploy MEC. To me MEC data path can be constructed with a form of encapsulation in an arbitrary fashion. In fact I could say the more underlay walls you implement the harder it becomes to construct arbitrary MEC mesh. At least for LSR WG if I were to justify any work here like TTZ I would explain why Multi access edge computing requires IGP/underlay type of separation and moreover why such separation can not be constructed with areas or levels. Thx, R. On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:18 AM Richard Li wrote= : > This is a use case: > > > > The user plane of 5G is distributed, and MEC is deployed as part of the > user plane to provide some functions at Access Aggregation Ring or Region= al > Aggregation Ring or at the border between Regional Aggregation Ring and t= he > National Core. Using TTZ, MEC or part of it can be virtualized and > topologically simplified. Note that the outside really doesn=E2=80=99t ca= re about > the internals of MEC. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of * Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:25 PM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent > Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > > > Dear WG, > > > > The draft in question does not describe even a single practical use case. > > > > While it describes the mechanics on how to construct the new model of the > abstraction it fails to prove we need it. > > > > Not everything which can be invented should be standardized or implemente= d > therefore until the document extensively describes the real use cases wit= h > justification why use of areas may not be sufficient for such use cases I > don't think LSR WG should adopt it. > > > > Regards, > Robert. > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 4:17 PM Acee Lindem (acee) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community t= o > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > --000000000000f3746e05ad35e8be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Richard,

    I understand that these day= s you say "5G" and you are done for any use case. :)=C2=A0
    <= div>
    So I read this paper:=C2=A0https://www.= etsi.org/images/files/ETSIWhitePapers/etsi_wp28_mec_in_5G_FINAL.pdf

    There is nothing=C2=A0there which would indicate a ne= ed for zone or even area separation to effectively deploy MEC. To me MEC da= ta path can be constructed with a form of encapsulation in an arbitrary fas= hion. In fact I could say the more underlay walls you implement the harder = it becomes to construct arbitrary MEC mesh.=C2=A0

    = At least for LSR WG if I were to justify any work here like TTZ I would exp= lain why Multi access edge computing requires IGP/underlay type of separati= on and moreover why such separation can not be constructed with areas or le= vels.=C2=A0

    Thx,
    R.

    On Wed, Aug 19, 2020= at 5:18 AM Richard Li <rich= ard.li@futurewei.com> wrote:

    This is a use case:

    =C2=A0

    The user plane of 5G is distributed, and MEC is depl= oyed as part of the user plane to provide some functions at Access Aggregat= ion Ring or Regional Aggregation Ring or at the border between Regional Agg= regation Ring and the National Core. Using TTZ, MEC or part of it can be virtualized and topologically simplifi= ed. Note that the outside really doesn=E2=80=99t care about the internals o= f MEC.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    =C2=A0

    Richard

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:25 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

    =C2=A0

    Dear WG,

    =C2=A0

    The draft in question does not describe even a singl= e practical use case.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    While it describes the mechanics on how to construct= the new model of the abstraction it fails to prove we need it.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Not everything which can be invented should be stand= ardized or implemented therefore until the document extensively describes t= he real use cases with justification why use of areas may not be sufficient= for such use cases I don't think LSR WG should adopt it.=C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Regards,
    Robert.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on = the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0fee= l that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experim= ental track.

    =C2=A0

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary b= oundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstracti= on.

    =C2=A0

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draf= t-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adopti= on prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

    --000000000000f3746e05ad35e8be-- From nobody Wed Aug 19 00:53:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDF43A10B3 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:53:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mt5NcTUgFkqL for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CF203A0400 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:53:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1993; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597823587; x=1599033187; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FLZ6zqpPGT54Ndo9aVXzdqUMaPXuIGkHmXO1ZTzOni8=; b=efisxAeZTaqRqaPBxWGpaD7G/gkI95xA0KW+0jSZG5lvVqeb/0c2ExRo Hur5P4T/zRENiqFiG12HXz3JJgn3O/gXn/Oe8iMWcHjgJjf1h1zSIDs81 YeBMqP5fANzASJya8HObbO+X5W+viFOHSAXsb/C7zwM9HWF0O8BXKr5NM c=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AaAABC2Txf/xbLJq1fGgEBAQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBARIBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAgIBAQEBQIE5AgEBAQELAYNtASASLIQ3iQGHfiWcFwsBAQEOLwQBAYRMA?= =?us-ascii?q?oIgJTcGDgIDAQEBAwIDAQEBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVohXEBAQEDASMPAQVGBwQLE?= =?us-ascii?q?QQBAQECAh8HAgJPCAYBDAYCAQGDIoJdILBndoEyhVKDZ4FAgQ4qAY05gUE/g?= =?us-ascii?q?REnDIIvLj6BBIFYBIR0gmAEti+CbIMMlwkFBwMekWaOPZI7n2iBaSSBVzMaC?= =?us-ascii?q?BsVgyRQGQ2OKwwLFI4SPwMwAjUCBgEJAQEDCZBeAQE?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,330,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="26435328" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 19 Aug 2020 07:53:03 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07J7r3Kn000397; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:53:03 GMT To: Veerendranatha Reddy V , "lsr@ietf.org" References: From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <35fa1a89-0512-051b-a4d5-655fcaa8d7f3@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:53:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 07:53:09 -0000 Hi Veerendranatha, On 19/08/2020 06:23, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: > Hi Peter, > While redistributing prefix Sid for the prefixes from other protocols (Ex: from ISIS or other OSPF instances), we can consider as range TLV for the prefixes which are advertised in the range TLV in that protocol. I don't follow. Are you talking about redistribution of SRMS advertisement between protocols? Such thing has not been defined. thanks, Peter > If it is NSSA, then we need to advertise these redistributed prefixes as area scope, so Range TLV also need to be part of area scope Opaque LSA. > > Thanks & Regards, > Veerendranath > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:06 PM > To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 > > Veerendranath, > > On 18/08/2020 16:40, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >> Hi Authors, All, >> >> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to >> distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. >> >> Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for >> external/NSSA prefixes ? > > I don't see how you can use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV for NSSA, the usage of OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV has only been defined in the context of RFC 8665. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> >> For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Prefix Range TLV  by using >> LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for External >> Prefixes) >> >> But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes (Type-7) >> , which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type field in this >> TLV to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as IA flag will not >> be set anyway). >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Veerendranath >> > > > From nobody Wed Aug 19 01:09:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEEA3A110A for ; 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19 Aug 2020 08:09:03 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07J8928u003664; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:09:03 GMT To: Veerendranatha Reddy V , "lsr@ietf.org" References: <35fa1a89-0512-051b-a4d5-655fcaa8d7f3@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <22dc4c32-1d81-4665-1568-bfa165e9462f@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 10:09:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 08:09:09 -0000 Veerendranath, On 19/08/2020 10:03, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: > Hi Peter, > It is not related to SRMS. > If there exist ISIS/OSPF or two instances of OSPF in same device, and all are supporting ST, then I can redistribute SR Prefix information to OSPF from other OSPF instance or from ISIS. yes, you can. > In this case, I may use range TLV to reduce the number of Prefix TLVs, by using Range TLV, if prefixes and SID are able to convert to Range TLV. you would have to generate one somewhere (on ABR?), but it would not be of NSSA type. Peter > > Thanks & Regards, > Veerendranath > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:23 PM > To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 > > Hi Veerendranatha, > > On 19/08/2020 06:23, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> While redistributing prefix Sid for the prefixes from other protocols (Ex: from ISIS or other OSPF instances), we can consider as range TLV for the prefixes which are advertised in the range TLV in that protocol. > > I don't follow. Are you talking about redistribution of SRMS advertisement between protocols? Such thing has not been defined. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> If it is NSSA, then we need to advertise these redistributed prefixes as area scope, so Range TLV also need to be part of area scope Opaque LSA. >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> Veerendranath >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak >> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:06 PM >> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >> lsr@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for >> External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >> >> Veerendranath, >> >> On 18/08/2020 16:40, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>> Hi Authors, All, >>> >>> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to >>> distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. >>> >>> Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for >>> external/NSSA prefixes ? >> >> I don't see how you can use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV for NSSA, the usage of OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV has only been defined in the context of RFC 8665. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Prefix Range TLV  by using >>> LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for External >>> Prefixes) >>> >>> But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes (Type-7) >>> , which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type field in this >>> TLV to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as IA flag will >>> not be set anyway). >>> >>> Thanks & Regards, >>> >>> Veerendranath >>> >> >> >> > > > From nobody Wed Aug 19 02:33:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139233A16CF for ; 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19 Aug 2020 09:33:34 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07J9XX2i029189; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:33:33 GMT To: Veerendranatha Reddy V , "lsr@ietf.org" References: <35fa1a89-0512-051b-a4d5-655fcaa8d7f3@cisco.com> <22dc4c32-1d81-4665-1568-bfa165e9462f@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:33:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:33:41 -0000 Veerendranatha, On 19/08/2020 11:19, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: > Hi Peter, > Thanks for the reply. > For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV (defined in RFC 7684) has route type and it supports NSSA External Prefixes to carry SID information. > In the same way, if Range TLV has Route-Type , we can extend to support for NSSA ASBR to send Range TLVs for redistributed prefixes. no. NSSA route type is used for redistribution of prefixes to NSSA areas. There is no such thing as redistribution of SRMS entries. So using NSSA type with SRMS advertisement is not valid. Peter > > Thanks & Regards, > Veerendranath > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:39 PM > To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 > > Veerendranath, > > On 19/08/2020 10:03, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> It is not related to SRMS. >> If there exist ISIS/OSPF or two instances of OSPF in same device, and all are supporting ST, then I can redistribute SR Prefix information to OSPF from other OSPF instance or from ISIS. > > yes, you can. > >> In this case, I may use range TLV to reduce the number of Prefix TLVs, by using Range TLV, if prefixes and SID are able to convert to Range TLV. > > you would have to generate one somewhere (on ABR?), but it would not be of NSSA type. > > Peter > > >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> Veerendranath >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak >> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:23 PM >> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >> lsr@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for >> External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >> >> Hi Veerendranatha, >> >> On 19/08/2020 06:23, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> While redistributing prefix Sid for the prefixes from other protocols (Ex: from ISIS or other OSPF instances), we can consider as range TLV for the prefixes which are advertised in the range TLV in that protocol. >> >> I don't follow. Are you talking about redistribution of SRMS advertisement between protocols? Such thing has not been defined. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> If it is NSSA, then we need to advertise these redistributed prefixes as area scope, so Range TLV also need to be part of area scope Opaque LSA. >>> >>> Thanks & Regards, >>> Veerendranath >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Peter Psenak >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:06 PM >>> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >>> lsr@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for >>> External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >>> >>> Veerendranath, >>> >>> On 18/08/2020 16:40, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>>> Hi Authors, All, >>>> >>>> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to >>>> distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. >>>> >>>> Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for >>>> external/NSSA prefixes ? >>> >>> I don't see how you can use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV for NSSA, the usage of OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV has only been defined in the context of RFC 8665. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> >>>> For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Prefix Range TLV  by >>>> using LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for >>>> External >>>> Prefixes) >>>> >>>> But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes >>>> (Type-7) , which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type >>>> field in this TLV to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as >>>> IA flag will not be set anyway). >>>> >>>> Thanks & Regards, >>>> >>>> Veerendranath >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From nobody Wed Aug 19 03:11:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490623A1741 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 03:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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469bba8b-e8ae-4258-df2a-08d84424f948 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Aug 2020 09:48:06.3779 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: E+6ZtGWMPGpcz29bjF8cCy5ECXcYcfzzfkUHyThcBg9SMVHzKuUWE4k0PoEtu8kcZFQGCXfUUO+wF0mbKZkyqx1Bnn6gOvFjm+cJufpUs6grPWI2ZvnKuCjYJ5BbVbV9 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4555 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 03:52:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:48:15 -0000 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(ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Peter Psenak References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> From: Organization: Orange Labs Message-ID: <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:42:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F8CC2A1436FA031313D4E702" Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.247] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:42:29 -0000 --------------F8CC2A1436FA031313D4E702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all I think the clarification is mandatory and not only in section 5.1 and not = only for the delay. Indeed, section 5.1 makes reference to [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] while section= 17.1.2 makes reference to RFC8570 with the same error. And what about refe= rence to RFC7471 for OSPF ? And, I also notice the same problem with the TE= metric (ref to draft te app in section 5.1 and reference to RFC 5305 in se= ction 17.1.2). So, we need a clear reference to the same document/section/TLVs in both sec= tion 5.1 and section 17.1.2 for both delay and TE metric. But, the question behind, it is which documents ? Future RFC about TE app ?= RFC 8570 ? RFC 7471 ? As an operator, as of today, I have not the possibility to advertise min/ma= x delay in our network as requested in the draft just because it is not ava= ilable in all commercial routers. So, referring to a future RFC which take = months/years before it becomes available/deploy/operational, leave flex alg= o with delay not ready before a while. So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay value= that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. = It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is announc= ed in its network by the different routers. Regards Olivier Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: > > Robert, > > Thank you, exactly. > > We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t under= stand why this is such a big deal. > > Tony > > >> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >> >> Les, >> >> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.=C2=A0 >> >> See RFC 8570 says:=C2=A0 >> >> Type Description >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> 33 Unidirectional Link Delay >> >> 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >> >> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft lite= rally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick mini= mum value from ULD type 33 :)=C2=A0 >> >> If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value of = Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.=C2=A0 >> >> That's all.=C2=A0 >> >> Cheers, >> R. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: >> >> Tony =E2=80=93 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sur= e why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point = 33. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Un= idirectional Link Delay >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> This sub-TLV contains two values: >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries the minimum meas= ured link delay >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microseconds) over a config= urable interval, encoded as >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries the maximum = measured link delay >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microseconds) over a config= urable interval, encoded as >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.=E2=80=9D >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min Unidire= ctional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I t= hink Peter has been very clear. >> >> Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> *From:* Lsr > *On= Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > >> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org ; Christian Hopps >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; draft-i= etf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> Hi Peter, >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >> >> >> Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-ap= p]. >> >> We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this canno= t be mixed with other delay values (max, average). >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectio= nal Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80= =9D, leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open= to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you always = want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a better match. >> >> >> >> >> >> section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >> >> Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Del= ay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> And it also says: >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC8570 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> This does not help. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have = no issue adding the text you proposed below. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers= of specifications, to be precise and clear.=C2=A0 We are not there yet. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if y= ou were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you w= ere, as you did not indicate otherwise. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully = not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo dra= ft. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but impo= rtant clarification. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at leas= t one more spin is required. >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> Sorry, >> >> Tony >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --=20 Orange logo =C2=A0 Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ =C2=A0 fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --------------F8CC2A1436FA031313D4E702 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------B4CB8D7CE598C59A56DF3EE4" --------------B4CB8D7CE598C59A56DF3EE4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi all

    I think the clarification is mandatory and not only in section 5.1 and not only for the delay.

    Indeed, section 5.1 makes reference to = [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] while section 17.1.2 makes reference to RFC8570 with the same error. And what about reference to RFC7471 for OSPF ? And, I also notice the same problem with the TE metric (ref to draft te app in section 5.1 and reference to RFC 5305 in section 17.1.2).

    So, we need a clear reference to the same document/section/TLVs in both section 5.1 and section 17.1.2 for both delay and TE metric.

    But, the question behind, it is which documents ? Future RFC about TE app ? RFC 8570 ? RFC 7471 ?

    As an operator, as of today, I have not the possibility to advertise min/max delay in our network as requested in the draft just because it is not available in all commercial routers. So, referring to a future RFC which take months/years before it becomes available/deploy/operational, leave flex algo with delay not ready before a while.

    So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is announced in its network by the different routers.

    Regards

    Olivier

    Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t understand why this is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.=C2=A0

    See RFC 8570 says:=C2=A0

          Type    =
Description
      ----------------------------------------------------
       33     Unidirectional Link Delay

       34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)=C2=A0

    If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft m= ay say minimum=C2=A0value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Del= ay (34) and be done.=C2=A0

    That's all.=C2=A0

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:

    Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected = to code point 33.

    =C2=A0

    RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:

    =C2=A0

    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0

    =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This= 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= an integer value.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 = This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= an integer value.=E2=80=9D

    =C2=A0

    It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

    =C2=A0

    I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think Peter has been very clear.

    Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33??

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.o= rg> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <    ppsenak@cisco.com<= /a>>
    Cc:     lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org<= /a>>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com= >; draft-ietf-lsr-fle= x-algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Hi Peter,

    =C2=A0



    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:


    Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading= to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a better match.





    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Ma= x Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    And it also says:

    =C2=A0

    33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    This does not help.<= /p>

    =C2=A0



    So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.=C2=A0 We are not there yet.

    =C2=A0



    BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.

    =C2=A0



    Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think= that this is trivially resolved, but important clarification.

    =C2=A0

    You also have an author=E2= =80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least one more spin is required.

    =C2=A0

    Sorry,

    Tony

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/lsr


    ______________________________=
_________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf=
.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
    --

    =C2=A0

    Olivier Dugeon
     Orange Expert, Future Networks
    Open Source Referent
    Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ

    =C2=A0

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
     olivier.dugeon@orange.c= om 
    ____________________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________

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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
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modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
    --------------B4CB8D7CE598C59A56DF3EE4 Content-Type: image/png; name="small_logo.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="small_logo.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoCAYAAACM/rhtAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAA CXBIWXMAAA3XAAAN1wFCKJt4AAAAe0lEQVRYw+3YoQ2AMBBG4b+EAVBYfFeBhHkYgxEYgTmK RmFIQJKwQVngQgiiqXhPnvrEnTkXB0VlXKHMAwgQIECAAAECBAgQIECAAAEC/F9pTqtG8n1a yTpL9/4RWHupG9MCr80EsoMA87zic5GmNq3kCObY8QIGCPC9B8bwEkbe325MAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC --------------B4CB8D7CE598C59A56DF3EE4-- --------------F8CC2A1436FA031313D4E702-- From nobody Wed Aug 19 05:00:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D0B3A0846; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhVZJREgkuwV; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA8C33A046E; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:00:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9635; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597838446; x=1599048046; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5xNzDrU3S+FgJpjNFQp2nkpV9SLZK3wfOUPkVxBNmBQ=; b=QdadXSunpL4zu9U7KL/WdrDZpoZip76RUzLQBBC2FmY6PH+JM3uVRW4h pFsNPORqZuuWgheKQQKO52PIK7BwV4KPA6x1wTjXEyrXrrOv7ml7Wrbeq cmk6QudtVSt5T3LgHnnEZmmHEINnmV5ACiC/7gfnVDRPgxjJRmwqvxGjL I=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,331,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28878952" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 19 Aug 2020 12:00:44 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.35] ([10.147.24.35]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07JC0hIF019739; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:00:43 GMT To: olivier.dugeon@orange.com, tony.li@tony.li, Robert Raszuk Cc: Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:00:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.35, [10.147.24.35] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:00:50 -0000 Olivier, On 19/08/2020 13:42, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: > Hi all > > I think the clarification is mandatory and not only in section 5.1 and > not only for the delay. > > Indeed, section 5.1 makes reference to [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app] while > section 17.1.2 makes reference to RFC8570 with the same error. And what ok, I will make the same clarification there. > about reference to RFC7471 for OSPF ? will add that. > And, I also notice the same > problem with the TE metric (ref to draft te app in section 5.1 and > reference to RFC 5305 in section 17.1.2). will fix that. > > So, we need a clear reference to the same document/section/TLVs in both > section 5.1 and section 17.1.2 for both delay and TE metric. > > But, the question behind, it is which documents ? Future RFC about TE > app ? RFC 8570 ? RFC 7471 ? I don't understand. Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay is clearly defined in RFC 8570 RFC 7471. For flex-algo it is advertised using ASLA advertisement. I don't see a problem. > > As an operator, as of today, I have not the possibility to advertise > min/max delay in our network as requested in the draft just because it > is not available in all commercial routers. So, referring to a future > RFC which take months/years before it becomes > available/deploy/operational, leave flex algo with delay not ready > before a while. sorry, but we are defining a new extension. This require new encodings for flex-algo, so anyone implementing flex-algo needs to implement this new encodings. > > So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay > value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App > draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it > is announced in its network by the different routers. I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong. We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to address the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the flex-algo application. regards, Peter > > Regards > > Olivier > > Le 18/08/2020 à 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a écrit : >> >> Robert, >> >> Thank you, exactly. >> >> We just need a clarification of the document.  I don’t understand why >> this is such a big deal. >> >> Tony >> >> >>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk >> > wrote: >>> >>> Les, >>> >>> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >>> >>> See RFC 8570 says: >>> >>> Type Description >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> 33 Unidirectional Link Delay >>> >>> 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>> >>> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft >>> literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may >>> pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :) >>> >>> If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max >>> Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >>> >>> That's all. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Tony – >>> >>> As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not >>> sure why you are confused – nor why you got misdirected to code >>> point 33. >>> >>> RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >>> >>> 34           Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>> >>> This sub-TLV contains two values: >>> >>> “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link >>> delay >>> >>>       value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>> encoded as >>> >>>       an integer value. >>> >>>    Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured >>> link delay >>> >>>       value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>> encoded as >>> >>>       an integer value.” >>> >>> It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min >>> Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >>> >>> I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but >>> I think Peter has been very clear. >>> >>> Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >>> >>>    Les >>> >>> *From:* Lsr > >>> *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >>> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> > >>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org >>> ; Christian Hopps >> >; Acee Lindem (acee) >> >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >>> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> >>> >>> section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >>> >>> >>> Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in >>> [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >>> >>> We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this >>> cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average). >>> >>> The problem is that that does not exactly match “Unidirectional >>> Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay”, leading to >>> the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open to >>> people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so of course, you always >>> want to take the min.  So type 33 seems like a better match. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >>> >>> Type   Description                          Encoding >>>                                            Reference >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> 34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570 >>> >>> And it also says: >>> >>> 33      Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >>> >>> >>> This does not help. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I >>> have no issue adding the text you proposed below. >>> >>> What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as >>> writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.  We are not >>> there yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked >>> if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in >>> 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise. >>> >>> My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and >>> hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG >>> LC of the flex-algo draft. >>> >>> I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important >>> clarification. >>> >>> You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, so at least one >>> more spin is required. >>> >>> Sorry, >>> >>> Tony >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > -- > Orange logo > > Olivier Dugeon > Orange Expert, Future Networks > Open Source Referent > Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ > > fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 > mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 > olivier.dugeon@orange.com > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Wed Aug 19 05:02:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CC63A08AB for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:02:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iLbnjyvVkJUM for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12CD83A0891 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:02:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5140; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597838535; x=1599048135; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZnVk6CiONQHkzpVBMifEkdT5TYNl9l9CQwx3nrljcOA=; b=hpqhCcFxFCPoStmcu3mrkCwiokfzHW3jvy/W+CBPqDKLEupUlpqd4oAd AaLRpLcHGYPxC7YYJuUow6eXyQ8j/wbmN0FJnt3+2EtKt42oCDNzD9mSa jgSQycZOoVu4qD5KME3i7M/JTEVHQb1hBDsiQdWoYxFzva1tlq3luZcBh s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CSAABiEz1f/xbLJq1fGgEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEDAQEBARIBAQEBAgIBAQEBQIFKg24BIBIshDeJAYd/JZwXCwEBAQ4vBAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BhEwCgjIlOBMCAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthWiFcQEBAQMBIw8BBU0ECxEEAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAgIfBwICTwgGAQwGAgEBgyKCXSCwWXaBMoVSg2KBQIEOKo06gUE/gREnDII?= =?us-ascii?q?vLj6BBIFYBIR0gmAEtjOCbIMMlwoFBwMekWmOPpI/n2yBaiOBVzMaCBsVgyR?= =?us-ascii?q?QGQ2OKwwLFI4SPwMwAjUCBgEJAQEDCZBiAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,331,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28817073" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 19 Aug 2020 12:02:13 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.35] ([10.147.24.35]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07JC2Cna031466; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:02:12 GMT To: Veerendranatha Reddy V , "lsr@ietf.org" References: <35fa1a89-0512-051b-a4d5-655fcaa8d7f3@cisco.com> <22dc4c32-1d81-4665-1568-bfa165e9462f@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <85917de1-0bd3-7801-02a5-298f0972bee9@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:02:12 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.35, [10.147.24.35] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:02:18 -0000 Hi Veerendranatha, On 19/08/2020 11:48, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: > Hi Peter, > Thanks for the reply. > As per the discussion, my understanding is Range TLV defined mainly be used for SRMS entries (to get entries from LDP , for LDP Interoperability). > The use case mentioned is different from SRMS (redistribution across IGP protocols) , Range TLV is not applicable to use in that use case? no. At this point, Range TLV is defined only for SRMS mapping advertisement. thanks, Peter > > Thanks & Regards, > Veerendranath > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 3:04 PM > To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 > > Veerendranatha, > > On 19/08/2020 11:19, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> Thanks for the reply. >> For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV (defined in RFC 7684) has route type and it supports NSSA External Prefixes to carry SID information. >> In the same way, if Range TLV has Route-Type , we can extend to support for NSSA ASBR to send Range TLVs for redistributed prefixes. > > no. NSSA route type is used for redistribution of prefixes to NSSA areas. There is no such thing as redistribution of SRMS entries. So using NSSA type with SRMS advertisement is not valid. > > Peter > > > > >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> Veerendranath >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak >> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:39 PM >> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >> lsr@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for >> External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >> >> Veerendranath, >> >> On 19/08/2020 10:03, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> It is not related to SRMS. >>> If there exist ISIS/OSPF or two instances of OSPF in same device, and all are supporting ST, then I can redistribute SR Prefix information to OSPF from other OSPF instance or from ISIS. >> >> yes, you can. >> >>> In this case, I may use range TLV to reduce the number of Prefix TLVs, by using Range TLV, if prefixes and SID are able to convert to Range TLV. >> >> you would have to generate one somewhere (on ABR?), but it would not be of NSSA type. >> >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> Thanks & Regards, >>> Veerendranath >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Peter Psenak >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:23 PM >>> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >>> lsr@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for >>> External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >>> >>> Hi Veerendranatha, >>> >>> On 19/08/2020 06:23, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> While redistributing prefix Sid for the prefixes from other protocols (Ex: from ISIS or other OSPF instances), we can consider as range TLV for the prefixes which are advertised in the range TLV in that protocol. >>> >>> I don't follow. Are you talking about redistribution of SRMS advertisement between protocols? Such thing has not been defined. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> If it is NSSA, then we need to advertise these redistributed prefixes as area scope, so Range TLV also need to be part of area scope Opaque LSA. >>>> >>>> Thanks & Regards, >>>> Veerendranath >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Peter Psenak >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:06 PM >>>> To: Veerendranatha Reddy V ; >>>> lsr@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage >>>> for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 >>>> >>>> Veerendranath, >>>> >>>> On 18/08/2020 16:40, Veerendranatha Reddy V wrote: >>>>> Hi Authors, All, >>>>> >>>>> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to >>>>> distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. >>>>> >>>>> Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for >>>>> external/NSSA prefixes ? >>>> >>>> I don't see how you can use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV for NSSA, the usage of OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV has only been defined in the context of RFC 8665. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Prefix Range TLV  by >>>>> using LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for >>>>> External >>>>> Prefixes) >>>>> >>>>> But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes >>>>> (Type-7) , which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type >>>>> field in this TLV to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as >>>>> IA flag will not be set anyway). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks & Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Veerendranath >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From nobody Wed Aug 19 05:41:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39BE3A08ED; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:41:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.14.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <159784088076.27683.17471754853907093391@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 05:41:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-10.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 12:41:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IGP Flexible Algorithm Authors : Peter Psenak Shraddha Hegde Clarence Filsfils Ketan Talaulikar Arkadiy Gulko Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-10.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2020-08-19 Abstract: IGP protocols traditionally compute best paths over the network based on the IGP metric assigned to the links. Many network deployments use RSVP-TE based or Segment Routing based Traffic Engineering to steer traffic over a path that is computed using different metrics or constraints than the shortest IGP path. This document proposes a solution that allows IGPs themselves to compute constraint-based paths over the network. This document also specifies a way of using Segment Routing (SR) Prefix-SIDs and SRv6 locators to steer packets along the constraint-based paths. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 19 09:08:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D243A0CCC for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=xs4all.nl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3RbgT5JLuwjQ for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 678FC3A0CF3 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 09:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:199]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id 8QdUk779xywL58QdUkXl9Q; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:08:25 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xs4all.nl; s=s1; t=1597853305; bh=AhcIqqswiv65Uvs9JHqDcxq91p6T17eORKXcA6AcyeM=; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:From: Subject; b=HFBVbz70rj6qeFoYCXP5p4F+C905ck5aEIW7LDxSAJPZJgkE7r7Lhuc5iPWYiAtfT P3JEuckOvROX7KJzUz1DoJlM0BDhPN8Y/UVUtyUFz1pP2PZicsvlnakePWEG1xtws+ zqvVXA/znCZObElvd0srogiA5KY9NgkTNTZSKvywEtHQkoYO4/ygTFwrWP1/FgxClF 76FPh1p2tomP/rlwmRxyJZ7cXL68nJWgpWskvoAEsqQTwOxbex3qqZObemGlf9CnBw mMDNVw/ZQQ+/ZYUSYvNFq4yl79TP5HpImyY3LQKP6auI5Y7GYWkCw44su0BuhvAkLN Ql/HpEvZu3OkQ== Received: from knint.xs4all.nl ([83.162.203.154]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:08:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 18:08:24 +0200 From: Henk Smit To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: lsr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: X-Sender: henk.ietf@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKU081oeT4JP+O2VBJEDbH5oOKIL+F5YXvSvnrbhEEF0CDgTeI9DXkwiO7u1unvU5JjDsxIm87tkpuSv9dIgyRco8WqKNBbqbNIlGGjN8xMfIjljj+V9 KMK16CMTvCvHYsolRUskn7ltc4hXRFfyiu78IB4fc8wdpq1BqiwoLO36JCL3eudawlpVhNinrS5cpoijEGpeQgtPJXPofPoWMzazUf++nQX47eRdP6I99RtI Qg7OiqCO+3gj69DVVAbqOw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:08:35 -0000 I object the introduction of a new major concept, called "zone". It adds nothing to solve problems we can not already solve. It just adds unnecessary complexity and technical debt. (12) In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. henk. Acee Lindem (acee) schreef op 2020-08-18 16:16: > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are > enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the > community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental > track. > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and > IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection > to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Wed Aug 19 16:05:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2CF3A0F22 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2020 16:05:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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06:13:42 +0000 From: Veerendranatha Reddy V To: Peter Psenak , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 Thread-Index: AdZ1bLVZomK+AP1qRgqOeyJr1fTjrwAGU2iAABZzokAAB3x7AAAAKBcwAABm9gAAAkJCkAAAsWGAAAAOucAABSJQAAAmFUqw Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 06:13:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <35fa1a89-0512-051b-a4d5-655fcaa8d7f3@cisco.com> <22dc4c32-1d81-4665-1568-bfa165e9462f@cisco.com> <85917de1-0bd3-7801-02a5-298f0972bee9@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <85917de1-0bd3-7801-02a5-298f0972bee9@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dmarc.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc.ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [103.210.133.47] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 97d9f5e5-7eee-4429-b284-08d844d03058 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4091: 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"draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> From: Organization: Orange Labs Message-ID: <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:58:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------108B1E522687E16869B5E3F8" Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.247] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:58:54 -0000 --------------108B1E522687E16869B5E3F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Peter, Thank for the new version. Le 19/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:00, Peter Psenak a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: > Olivier,=20 [ ... ] >> So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay va= lue that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draf= t. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is anno= unced in its network by the different routers. > > I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid= what you ask for is absolutely wrong. > > We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising t= he link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both l= egacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to addr= ess the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is ab= solutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just exten= d the problem to the flex-algo application. Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and sec= tion 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the defi= nition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also made= reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to en= code these value. Here, it is confusing. Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also= define the way to encode TE metric and Min delay. What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and Min = delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) while l= eaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. = RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr= -reuse. In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RFC747= 1 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. I would suggest the same wo= rding for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operator free about how it collect t= he values from the neighbour routers: legacy or new method. Regards Olivier PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy metric= s and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex alg= o based on legacy metrics. > > regards, > Peter > >> >> Regards >> >> Olivier >> >> Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >>> >>> Robert, >>> >>> Thank you, exactly. >>> >>> We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t und= erstand why this is such a big deal. >>> >>> Tony >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >>>> >>>> Les, >>>> >>>> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >>>> >>>> See RFC 8570 says: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Description >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---------------------------------= ------------------- >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Unidirectional Link Delay >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>> >>>> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft li= terally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick mi= nimum value from ULD type 33 :) >>>> >>>> If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value o= f Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >>>> >>>> That's all. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> R. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony =E2=80=93 >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-= app, I am not >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got= misdirected to code >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point 33. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This sub-TLV contains two values: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries= the minimum measured link >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 delay >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecon= ds) over a configurable interval, >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field car= ries the maximum measured >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 link delay >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecon= ds) over a configurable interval, >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.=E2= =80=9D >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referri= ng to Min >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specif= ications, but >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think Peter has been very clear. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please explain how you managed to end up at code po= int 33?? >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Lsr > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 > >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@i= etf.org >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; Christian Hopps >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >; Acee Lindem (acee) >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.= all@ietf.org >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ls= r-flex-algo >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Peter, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 5.1 of the draft-ie= tf-lsr-flex-algo says: >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min Unidirectional Link Del= ay as defined in >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We explicitly say "Min Unid= irectional Link Delay", so this >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cannot be mixed with other = delay values (max, average). >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2= =80=9CUnidirectional >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectio= nal Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave thi= ngs open to >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of= course, you always >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a= better match. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 7.3. of ietf-isis-t= e-app says: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Descriptio= n =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0Encoding >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Reference >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---------------------------= ------------------------------ >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570 >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And it also says: >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Lin= k Delay RFC8570 >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This does not help. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, IMHO what we have now i= s correct and sufficient, but I >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have no issue adding the te= xt you proposed below. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsib= ility, as >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.= =C2=A0 We are not >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 there yet. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BTW, before I posted 09 ver= sion of flex-algo draft, I asked >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if you were fine with just = referencing ietf-isis-te-app in >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5.1. I thought you were, as= you did not indicate otherwise. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anyway, I consider this as = a pure editorial issue and >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 hopefully not something tha= t would cause you to object the WG >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LC of the flex-algo draft. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially r= esolved, but important >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 clarification. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bou= ncing, so at least one >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 more spin is required. >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sorry, >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony >>>> >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr mailing list >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr@ietf.org >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> --=C2=A0 >> Orange logo >> >> Olivier Dugeon >> Orange Expert, Future Networks >> Open Source Referent >> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >> >> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >> >> ________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confi= dentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez r= ecu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages= electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme = ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged = information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and d= elete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have be= en modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >> > > --=20 Orange logo =C2=A0 Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ =C2=A0 fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --------------108B1E522687E16869B5E3F8 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------02CA44AF84BFC915A261FCDF" --------------02CA44AF84BFC915A261FCDF Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Peter,

    Thank for the new version.

    Le 19/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:00, Peter Psenak= a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
    Olivier,
    [ ... ]
    So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is announced in its network by the different routers.

    I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong.

    We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to address the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the flex-algo application.

    Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the definition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also made reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode these value. Here, it is confusing. Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric and Min delay.

    What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and Min delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) while leaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse.

    In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RFC7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operator free about how it collect the values from the neighbour routers: legacy or new method.

    Regards

    Olivier

    PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy metrics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex algo based on legacy metrics.


    regards,
    Peter


    Regards

    Olivier

    Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2=80= =99t understand why this is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> wrote:

    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.

    See RFC 8570 says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Des= cription
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --------------------------= --------------------------
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)

    If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0= value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.

    That's all.

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-i= sis-te-app, I am not
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why = you got misdirected to code
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point 33.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) defi= ne:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field = carries the minimum measured link
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in mic= roseconds) over a configurable interval,
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer va= lue.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit fi= eld carries the maximum measured
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in mic= roseconds) over a configurable interval,
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer va= lue.=E2=80=9D

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is = referring to Min
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think Peter has been very clear.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please explain how you managed to end up at = code point 33??

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.= com
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>; lsr-ads@ietf.org
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:lsr-ads@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>; Acee Lin= dem (acee) <acee@cisco.com
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <mailto:draft-ietf-lsr-flex= -algo.all@ietf.org>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Peter,



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 5.1 of the d= raft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:


    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min Unidirectional L= ink Delay as defined in
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-te-ap= p].

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We explicitly say "M= in Unidirectional Link Delay", so this
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cannot be mixed with= other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The problem is that that does not exactly ma= tch =E2=80=9CUnidirectional
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unid= irectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you le= ave things open to
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic= , so of course, you always
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems= like a better match.





    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 7.3. of ietf= -isis-te-app says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Des= cription =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---------------------------------------------------------
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And it also says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectio= nal Link Delay RFC8570
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8570= >

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This does not help.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, IMHO what we hav= e now is correct and sufficient, but I
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have no issue adding= the text you proposed below.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 writers of specifications, to be precise and= clear.=C2=A0 We are not
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 there yet.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BTW, before I posted= 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if you were fine wit= h just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5.1. I thought you w= ere, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 My bad, I should have pressed the issue.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anyway, I consider t= his as a pure editorial issue and
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 hopefully not someth= ing that would cause you to object the WG
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LC of the flex-algo = draft.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is triv= ially resolved, but important
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 clarification.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that= is bouncing, so at least one
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 more spin is required.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sorry,

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ____________________________________________= ___
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr mailing list
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/lsr


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    =C2=A0

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
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    --------------02CA44AF84BFC915A261FCDF Content-Type: image/png; name="small_logo.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="small_logo.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoCAYAAACM/rhtAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAA CXBIWXMAAA3XAAAN1wFCKJt4AAAAe0lEQVRYw+3YoQ2AMBBG4b+EAVBYfFeBhHkYgxEYgTmK RmFIQJKwQVngQgiiqXhPnvrEnTkXB0VlXKHMAwgQIECAAAECBAgQIECAAAEC/F9pTqtG8n1a yTpL9/4RWHupG9MCr80EsoMA87zic5GmNq3kCObY8QIGCPC9B8bwEkbe325MAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC --------------02CA44AF84BFC915A261FCDF-- --------------108B1E522687E16869B5E3F8-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 05:12:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856F13A040F; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 05:12:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P3FoByXAk_6X; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 05:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3F313A0870; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 05:12:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12520; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597925568; x=1599135168; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1mjYYKSWWfX2WXVay1iQz4hUb2J7Jw0lOFm3wMue2YU=; b=cHAwtwJlX2wWKGgFSV92nwqqv0CaRDG1x6kbC5nOSAvwbYgKroUjJnsQ Y4bCybCI4x77VB0rOSGs5Zz+/+ywmt4mp80WOWp+EmFje1PsqTD/wPYLC qYqyaRetngUVFntg5H1+UdI3ooYhILmVxW8d2Fxil3IKfYcxVRYIgeQor s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,332,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="28910272" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 20 Aug 2020 12:12:46 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07KCCjG3000876; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:12:45 GMT To: olivier.dugeon@orange.com, tony.li@tony.li, Robert Raszuk Cc: Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <1fb53fad-b5ae-4d2f-3fde-180b62bc9645@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:12:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 12:12:51 -0000 Hi Olivier, On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thank for the new version. > > Le 19/08/2020 à 14:00, Peter Psenak a écrit : >> Olivier, > [ ... ] >>> So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay >>> value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or >>> TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency >>> of what it is announced in its network by the different routers. >> >> I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm >> afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong. >> >> We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for >> advertising the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be >> advertised in both legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy >> application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to address the backward compatibility. >> Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use the >> legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the >> flex-algo application. > > Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and > section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for > the definition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, > they also made reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively > ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode these value. that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are mandating the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link attributes. > Here, it is confusing. I don't see how much more clear we can make it. > Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric > and Min delay. you have to distinguish between two things: a) where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 b) how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app, ospf-te-link-attr-reuse > > What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and > Min delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) > while leaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: > legacy a.k.a. RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & > draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse. no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these metrics and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is done for a reason and I have already explained that. > > In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & > RFC7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are going to advertise it for the link. > I would suggest > the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operator free about > how it collect the values from the neighbour routers: legacy or new method. please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements for flex-algo - it will not be allowed. thanks, Peter > > Regards > > Olivier > > PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy > metrics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of > flex algo based on legacy metrics. > >> >> regards, >> Peter >> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Olivier >>> >>> Le 18/08/2020 à 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a écrit : >>>> >>>> Robert, >>>> >>>> Thank you, exactly. >>>> >>>> We just need a clarification of the document.  I don’t understand >>>> why this is such a big deal. >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Les, >>>>> >>>>> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >>>>> >>>>> See RFC 8570 says: >>>>> >>>>>        Type    Description >>>>>        ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>>         33     Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>> >>>>>         34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>> >>>>> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft >>>>> literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it >>>>> may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :) >>>>> >>>>> If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of >>>>> Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >>>>> >>>>> That's all. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> R. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>     Tony – >>>>> >>>>>     As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not >>>>>     sure why you are confused – nor why you got misdirected to code >>>>>     point 33. >>>>> >>>>>     RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >>>>> >>>>>     34           Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>> >>>>>     This sub-TLV contains two values: >>>>> >>>>>     “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link >>>>>     delay >>>>> >>>>>           value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>     encoded as >>>>> >>>>>           an integer value. >>>>> >>>>>        Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured >>>>>     link delay >>>>> >>>>>           value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>     encoded as >>>>> >>>>>           an integer value.” >>>>> >>>>>     It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min >>>>>     Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >>>>> >>>>>     I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but >>>>>     I think Peter has been very clear. >>>>> >>>>>     Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >>>>> >>>>>        Les >>>>> >>>>>     *From:* Lsr > >>>>>     *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >>>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >>>>>     *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >>>> > >>>>>     *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org >>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>> >; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>> >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >>>>> >>>>>     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >>>>> >>>>>     Hi Peter, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in >>>>>         [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >>>>> >>>>>         We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this >>>>>         cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average). >>>>> >>>>>     The problem is that that does not exactly match “Unidirectional >>>>>     Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay”, leading to >>>>>     the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open to >>>>>     people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so of course, you always >>>>>     want to take the min.  So type 33 seems like a better match. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >>>>> >>>>>         Type   Description                          Encoding >>>>>                                                    Reference >>>>>         --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>         34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570 >>>>> >>>>>     And it also says: >>>>> >>>>>     33      Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>     This does not help. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I >>>>>         have no issue adding the text you proposed below. >>>>> >>>>>     What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as >>>>>     writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.  We are not >>>>>     there yet. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked >>>>>         if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in >>>>>         5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise. >>>>> >>>>>     My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>         Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and >>>>>         hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG >>>>>         LC of the flex-algo draft. >>>>> >>>>>     I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important >>>>>     clarification. >>>>> >>>>>     You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, so at least one >>>>>     more spin is required. >>>>> >>>>>     Sorry, >>>>> >>>>>     Tony >>>>> >>>>>     _______________________________________________ >>>>>     Lsr mailing list >>>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Lsr mailing list >>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> -- >>> Orange logo >>> >>> Olivier Dugeon >>> Orange Expert, Future Networks >>> Open Source Referent >>> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >>> >>> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >>> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >>> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous >>> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les >>> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, >>> deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>> >>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >>> privileged information that may be protected by law; >>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender >>> and delete this message and its attachments. >>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have >>> been modified, changed or falsified. >>> Thank you. >>> >> >> > -- > Orange logo > > Olivier Dugeon > Orange Expert, Future Networks > Open Source Referent > Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ > > fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 > mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 > olivier.dugeon@orange.com > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Thu Aug 20 07:25:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99FF3A099E; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:25:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.725 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.725 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0YuW3tUD8h1m; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1CAC3A099A; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BXRlJ2HPMzBtVV; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:25:48 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1597933548; bh=PEuBjHQkOXdkIq3T7v4ZRf4rjk1/hu8bw+ECsY4X8FM=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ldoxCuOMPeJUtm7GVS41MQUbEfzMAByi3IGJXzj7CkQSPOc4l8pwmHtq9m1F5BiKX was7Y3mynb301GLhyP9DmZfe7eviGPvDTl9kHB85rmDGTd+Jh/J46wynUwkpWqExU+ JrRI243V7NTTKXA6joPdduh/kRkMZ7R8eruhY2rg9/ZnPu0fgvh3Uc2W7KqNj32WXp +OHPRJfdf0anpfcA496gvIzI/AXbcwrz7SVcizszNs79MlKHPXyLvEzktY0/qHncu3 1UGcQL4h0hD6zgPn/i1l/HJez4G3fvxO4goam/epILCg5AtGgjNSfmlSfwYJfMuwcO iEHLjMbpF9+LQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.70]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4BXRlH73zKzCqkh; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:25:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.193.71.111] (10.114.13.247) by exchange-eme6.itn.ftgroup (10.114.13.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:25:47 +0200 To: Peter Psenak , , Robert Raszuk CC: Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> <1fb53fad-b5ae-4d2f-3fde-180b62bc9645@cisco.com> From: Organization: Orange Labs Message-ID: <9988_1597933548_5F3E87EC_9988_13_3_15236ac6-520b-919b-ecec-c6c58b48b73d@orange.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:25:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1fb53fad-b5ae-4d2f-3fde-180b62bc9645@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BFD0241ED9A75CD0C5DFA892" Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [10.114.13.247] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:25:53 -0000 --------------BFD0241ED9A75CD0C5DFA892 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter, Le 20/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:12, Peter Psenak a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: > Hi Olivier, > > On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> >> Thank for the new version. >> >> Le 19/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:00, Peter Psenak a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >>> Olivier,=20 >> [ ... ] >>>> So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay = value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App dr= aft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is an= nounced in its network by the different routers. >>> >>> I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afra= id what you ask for is absolutely wrong. >>> >>> We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising= the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both= legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to ad= dress the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is = absolutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just ext= end the problem to the flex-algo application. >> >> Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and = section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the d= efinition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also m= ade reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to= encode these value.=20 > > that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are mandat= ing the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link attributes. > >> Here, it is confusing.=20 > > I don't see how much more clear we can make it. > >> Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric an= d Min delay. > > you have to distinguish between two things: > > a)=C2=A0 where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 74= 71 > b)=C2=A0 how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app, > ospf-te-link-attr-reuse > >> >> What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and M= in delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) whil= e leaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.= a. RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-a= ttr-reuse. > > no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these met= rics and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is done for = a reason and I have already explained that. > OK. Reading section 11 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me suggest= to make a reference to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead of refere= nce to drafts. >> >> In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RFC= 7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me.=20 > > because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are going = to advertise it for the link. > > OK. > >> I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operat= or free about how it collect the values from the neighbour routers: legacy = or new method. > > please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements for = flex-algo - it will not be allowed. This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different Flex = Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? if yes, h= ow can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics advertise in ALSA B= ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo. Regards, Olivier PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the path fo= r a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the Flex-Algorith= m definition (Section 5) MUST be used." > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Regards >> >> Olivier >> >> PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy met= rics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex = algo based on legacy metrics. >> >>> >>> regards, >>> Peter >>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Olivier >>>> >>>> Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >>>>> >>>>> Robert, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, exactly. >>>>> >>>>> We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t u= nderstand why this is such a big deal. >>>>> >>>>> Tony >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Les, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >>>>>> >>>>>> See RFC 8570 says: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Descript= ion >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -------------------------------= --------------------- >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>> >>>>>> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft = literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick = minimum value from ULD type 33 :) >>>>>> >>>>>> If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value= of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >>>>>> >>>>>> That's all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> R. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony =E2=80=93 >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-t= e-app, I am not >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you g= ot misdirected to code >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point 33. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This sub-TLV contains two values: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carri= es the minimum measured link >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 delay >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsec= onds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field c= arries the maximum measured >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 link delay >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsec= onds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.= =E2=80=9D >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is refer= ring to Min >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree it is important to be unambiguous in spec= ifications, but >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think Peter has been very clear. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please explain how you managed to end up at code = point 33?? >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Lsr > >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >>>>> > >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads= @ietf.org >>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>> >; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>>> >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-= lsr-flex-algo >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Peter, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 5.1 of the draft-= ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min Unidirectional Link D= elay as defined in >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We explicitly say "Min Un= idirectional Link Delay", so this >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cannot be mixed with othe= r delay values (max, average). >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The problem is that that does not exactly match = =E2=80=9CUnidirectional >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirect= ional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave t= hings open to >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so = of course, you always >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like= a better match. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 7.3. of ietf-isis= -te-app says: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Descript= ion =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Encoding >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Reference >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -------------------------= -------------------------------- >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570 >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And it also says: >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional L= ink Delay RFC8570 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This does not help. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, IMHO what we have now= is correct and sufficient, but I >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have no issue adding the = text you proposed below. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What you have now is ambiguous. We have a respons= ibility, as >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 writers of specifications, to be precise and clea= r.=C2=A0 We are not >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 there yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BTW, before I posted 09 v= ersion of flex-algo draft, I asked >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if you were fine with jus= t referencing ietf-isis-te-app in >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5.1. I thought you were, = as you did not indicate otherwise. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anyway, I consider this a= s a pure editorial issue and >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 hopefully not something t= hat would cause you to object the WG >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LC of the flex-algo draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially= resolved, but important >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 clarification. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is b= ouncing, so at least one >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 more spin is required. >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sorry, >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony >>>>>> >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 _______________________________________________ >>>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr mailing list >>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Lsr mailing list >>>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>>> --=C2=A0 >>>> Orange logo >>>> >>>> Olivier Dugeon >>>> Orange Expert, Future Networks >>>> Open Source Referent >>>> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >>>> >>>> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >>>> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >>>> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez= recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag= es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform= e ou falsifie. Merci. >>>> >>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege= d information that may be protected by law; >>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and= delete this message and its attachments. >>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>> >>> >> --=C2=A0 >> Orange logo >> >> Olivier Dugeon >> Orange Expert, Future Networks >> Open Source Referent >> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >> >> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >> >> ________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confi= dentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez r= ecu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages= electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme = ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged = information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and d= elete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have be= en modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >> > > --=20 Orange logo =C2=A0 Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ =C2=A0 fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --------------BFD0241ED9A75CD0C5DFA892 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------BB4E1343283D68B729244839" --------------BB4E1343283D68B729244839 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Peter,

    Le 20/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:12, Peter Psenak= a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
    Hi Olivier,

    On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote:
    Hi Peter,

    Thank for the new version.

    Le 19/08/2020 =C3=A0 14:00, Peter Psenak a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
    Olivier,
    [ ... ]
    So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is announced in its network by the different routers.

    I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong.

    We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to address the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the flex-algo application.

    Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the definition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also made reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode these value.

    that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are mandating the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link attributes.

    Here, it is confusing.

    I don't see how much more clear we can make it.

    Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric and Min delay.

    you have to distinguish between two things:

    a)=C2=A0 where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471
    b)=C2=A0 how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app,
    ospf-te-link-attr-reuse


    What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and Min delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) while leaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse.

    no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these metrics and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is done for a reason and I have already explained that.

    OK. Reading section 11 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me suggest to make a reference to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead of reference to drafts.

    In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RFC7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me.

    because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are going to advertise it for the link.


    OK.

    I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operator free about how it collect the values from the neighbour routers: legacy or new method.

    please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements for flex-algo - it will not be allowed.

    This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different Flex Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? if yes, how can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics advertise in ALSA B ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo.

    Regards,

    Olivier

    PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the path for a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the Flex-Algorithm definition (Section 5) MUST be used."


    thanks,
    Peter


    Regards

    Olivier

    PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy metrics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex algo based on legacy metrics.


    regards,
    Peter


    Regards

    Olivier

    Le 18/08/2020 =C3=A0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a clarification of the document. =C2=A0I don=E2= =80=99t understand why this is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>> wrote:

    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.

    See RFC 8570 says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Description
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ----------------------------------------------------
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)

    If you=C2=A0want to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.

    That's all.

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<= /a> <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor = why you got misdirected to code
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 point 33.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) = define:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit fi= eld carries the minimum measured link
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in= microseconds) over a configurable interval,
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an intege= r value.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bi= t field carries the maximum measured
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in= microseconds) over a configurable interval,
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an intege= r value.=E2=80=9D

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It seems clear to me that the flex-draft= is referring to Min
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 3= 4.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree it is important to be unambiguou= s in specifications, but
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think Peter has been very clear.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please explain how you managed to end up= at code point 33??

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@ci= sco.com
    <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>; lsr-ads@ietf.org
    <mailto:lsr-ads@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org
    <mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com
    <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    <mailto:draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.= org>
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi Peter,



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 5.1 of t= he draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:


    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min Unidirection= al Link Delay as defined in
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-isis-t= e-app].

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We explicitly sa= y "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cannot be mixed = with other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The problem is that that does not exactl= y match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the ambiguity. Without a clear match, yo= u leave things open to
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a met= riic, so of course, you always
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 s= eems like a better match.





    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 section 7.3. of = ietf-isis-te-app says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Type =C2=A0=C2= =A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ---------------------------------------------------------
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 34 =C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And it also says:

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidire= ctional Link Delay RFC8570
    <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8570>

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This does not help.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 So, IMHO what we= have now is correct and sufficient, but I
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 have no issue ad= ding the text you proposed below.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 writers of specifications, to be precise= and clear.=C2=A0 We are not
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 there yet.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 BTW, before I po= sted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 if you were fine= with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 5.1. I thought y= ou were, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 My bad, I should have pressed the issue.



    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anyway, I consid= er this as a pure editorial issue and
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 hopefully not so= mething that would cause you to object the WG
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LC of the flex-a= lgo draft.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is = trivially resolved, but important
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 clarification.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You also have an author=E2=80=99s email = that is bouncing, so at least one
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 more spin is required.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sorry,

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Tony

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ________________________________________= _______
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
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    ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

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    =C2=A0

    Olivier Dugeon
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    =C2=A0

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
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    --------------BB4E1343283D68B729244839 Content-Type: image/png; name="small_logo.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: Content-Disposition: inline; filename="small_logo.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoCAYAAACM/rhtAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAA CXBIWXMAAA3XAAAN1wFCKJt4AAAAe0lEQVRYw+3YoQ2AMBBG4b+EAVBYfFeBhHkYgxEYgTmK RmFIQJKwQVngQgiiqXhPnvrEnTkXB0VlXKHMAwgQIECAAAECBAgQIECAAAEC/F9pTqtG8n1a yTpL9/4RWHupG9MCr80EsoMA87zic5GmNq3kCObY8QIGCPC9B8bwEkbe325MAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC --------------BB4E1343283D68B729244839-- --------------BFD0241ED9A75CD0C5DFA892-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 08:18:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC723A0BFA; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cSmXw1ONBq9C; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2EA53A0BF2; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 08:17:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15964; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597936680; x=1599146280; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jqP+ZBEWvo59Q7sEKYejO5h84FD4fb3U6sWRUUAX7aU=; b=S84ezj8vXPMPPfhSu+AcbNvnyKBvedYhf3d/LPeONnuYxVsTaecNSyLi yPND5UkH1IMshmT7kigOui9Vi5q4v6ZB+aKrlUsb/Z1sdcuk0OgT550og Gsfaut6EGu4VCkgHFBAINa1ePX7LNXGy/wcSpMnus2hhEm9HGLkWqgt1+ Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,333,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="26477890" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 20 Aug 2020 15:17:58 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07KFHuVc027314; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:17:56 GMT To: olivier.dugeon@orange.com, tony.li@tony.li, Robert Raszuk Cc: Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> <1fb53fad-b5ae-4d2f-3fde-180b62bc9645@cisco.com> <9988_1597933548_5F3E87EC_9988_13_3_15236ac6-520b-919b-ecec-c6c58b48b73d@orange.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <6f5a9900-860a-7328-725f-124e19e92b4e@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:17:56 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9988_1597933548_5F3E87EC_9988_13_3_15236ac6-520b-919b-ecec-c6c58b48b73d@orange.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:18:07 -0000 Olivier, On 20/08/2020 16:25, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: > Peter, > > Le 20/08/2020 à 14:12, Peter Psenak a écrit : >> Hi Olivier, >> >> On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> Thank for the new version. >>> >>> Le 19/08/2020 à 14:00, Peter Psenak a écrit : >>>> Olivier, >>> [ ... ] >>>>> So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a >>>>> delay value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 >>>>> and/or TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the >>>>> coherency of what it is announced in its network by the different >>>>> routers. >>>> >>>> I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm >>>> afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong. >>>> >>>> We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for >>>> advertising the link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be >>>> advertised in both legacy and ASLA advertisement for legacy >>>> application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to address the backward compatibility. >>>> Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use >>>> the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to >>>> the flex-algo application. >>> >>> Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) >>> and section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 >>> for the definition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. >>> But, they also made reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively >>> ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode these value. >> >> that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are >> mandating the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link >> attributes. >> >>> Here, it is confusing. >> >> I don't see how much more clear we can make it. >> >>> Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric >>> and Min delay. >> >> you have to distinguish between two things: >> >> a)  where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 >> b)  how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app, >> ospf-te-link-attr-reuse >> >>> >>> What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric >>> and Min delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the >>> delay) while leaving open the door to how the router acquire these >>> values: legacy a.k.a. RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a >>> draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse. >> >> no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these >> metrics and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is >> done for a reason and I have already explained that. >> > OK. Reading section 11 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me > suggest to make a reference to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead > of reference to drafts. what is the problem with using the reference to isis-te-app, ospf-te-link-attr-reuse in 5.1 and 5.2? >>> >>> In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & >>> RFC7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. >> >> because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are >> going to advertise it for the link. >> >> > OK. >> >>> I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving >>> operator free about how it collect the values from the neighbour >>> routers: legacy or new method. >> >> please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements >> for flex-algo - it will not be allowed. > > This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different > Flex Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? sure > if yes, how can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics > advertise in ALSA B ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo. there is only single ASLA flex-algo delay metric advertisement per link, similar to only single RSVP-TE delay metric per link. Advertisement is done per application type, flex-algo being one of them, not per each instance of the application (e.g. flex-algo number). > > Regards, > > Olivier > > PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the path > for a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the > Flex-Algorithm definition (Section 5) MUST be used." I don't see it. I see one talking about metric, the other one about the calculation type. thanks, Peter > >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Olivier >>> >>> PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy >>> metrics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation >>> of flex algo based on legacy metrics. >>> >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Peter >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Olivier >>>>> >>>>> Le 18/08/2020 à 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, exactly. >>>>>> >>>>>> We just need a clarification of the document.  I don’t understand >>>>>> why this is such a big deal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tony >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Les, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See RFC 8570 says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>        Type    Description >>>>>>>        ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>         33     Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this >>>>>>> draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link >>>>>>> Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of >>>>>>> Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> R. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>>> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     Tony – >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not >>>>>>>     sure why you are confused – nor why you got misdirected to code >>>>>>>     point 33. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     34           Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     This sub-TLV contains two values: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link >>>>>>>     delay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>           value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>>>     encoded as >>>>>>> >>>>>>>           an integer value. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>        Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured >>>>>>>     link delay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>           value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, >>>>>>>     encoded as >>>>>>> >>>>>>>           an integer value.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min >>>>>>>     Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but >>>>>>>     I think Peter has been very clear. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>        Les >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     *From:* Lsr > >>>>>>>     *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li >>>>>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >>>>>>>     *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >>>>>> > >>>>>>>     *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org >>>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>>> >; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>>>> >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     Hi Peter, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in >>>>>>>         [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this >>>>>>>         cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average). >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     The problem is that that does not exactly match “Unidirectional >>>>>>>     Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay”, leading to >>>>>>>     the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open to >>>>>>>     people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so of course, you always >>>>>>>     want to take the min.  So type 33 seems like a better match. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         Type   Description                          Encoding >>>>>>>                                                    Reference >>>>>>>         --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>         34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     And it also says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     33      Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     This does not help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I >>>>>>>         have no issue adding the text you proposed below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as >>>>>>>     writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.  We are not >>>>>>>     there yet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked >>>>>>>         if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in >>>>>>>         5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>         Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and >>>>>>>         hopefully not something that would cause you to object >>>>>>> the WG >>>>>>>         LC of the flex-algo draft. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but >>>>>>> important >>>>>>>     clarification. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, so at least >>>>>>> one >>>>>>>     more spin is required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     Sorry, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     Tony >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>     Lsr mailing list >>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Lsr mailing list >>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>>>> -- >>>>> Orange logo >>>>> >>>>> Olivier Dugeon >>>>> Orange Expert, Future Networks >>>>> Open Source Referent >>>>> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >>>>> >>>>> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >>>>> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >>>>> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >>>>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>>>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous >>>>> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>>>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les >>>>> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, >>>>> deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>>>> >>>>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >>>>> privileged information that may be protected by law; >>>>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>>>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender >>>>> and delete this message and its attachments. >>>>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that >>>>> have been modified, changed or falsified. >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Orange logo >>> >>> Olivier Dugeon >>> Orange Expert, Future Networks >>> Open Source Referent >>> Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ >>> >>> fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 >>> mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 >>> olivier.dugeon@orange.com >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations >>> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >>> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous >>> avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >>> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les >>> messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, >>> deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >>> >>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >>> privileged information that may be protected by law; >>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender >>> and delete this message and its attachments. >>> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have >>> been modified, changed or falsified. >>> Thank you. >>> >> >> > -- > Orange logo > > Olivier Dugeon > Orange Expert, Future Networks > Open Source Referent > Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ > > fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 > mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 > olivier.dugeon@orange.com > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > From nobody Thu Aug 20 09:26:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1793A0658; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nX52thpCgDik; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1042.google.com (mail-pj1-x1042.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1042]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A1CD3A079F; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1042.google.com with SMTP id q1so858532pjd.1; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=DuvbNsP0gldv9El/dGt+u1yA5gwB+WmBo5aAWK80/D4=; b=M/LdaXZ+Gmek+cXUOy7weWtyESW2eBlxfjW9OXyb76Q3xPYch7+iP+T1BJXkaHXogn ILyyyLubtF/a3To8ZWWKW3d+8Ml5tNBMq6am/Fru6DYS+Zt/zlJUHw5B75k6DlSccsnp s2kdYn7uQBivxHttKlaS7ErkhElSI4laVu7P1nzsfRZfYhDvlXd8kOn1XFEnDORSUI+e NyJwUgQYYlqTRfjLRy0YThDKaNrpy5DVwIC/xu674YmPvUT0Wr/OPyUqwbp/oeEvbzhx S+ln8izvauE9XkrJ82Mf4Zg9kbqWXt8uGZmR5DyhDf20QA6rT65p/J0pfZC3aywZsQ27 EbWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=DuvbNsP0gldv9El/dGt+u1yA5gwB+WmBo5aAWK80/D4=; b=JUf/zZ6u1RqJP4e8Rw7F2+MLZt/ZviiPj9qsweKyHXYeCVGc9xSduWYIBQJxRZ5eO3 8NhvlQ06XF7ljuSDDJgkRL0+rNNvMDm/JrlILgWvfkNsFgcs2p2tNIbdZ0JfGygB+ZlI 1CejFoemtI80+H7Orls+WXE4zvub6nudy+Wn8X1O5yCjhOaEk5XR/fZBaVNxfmPmm+Mn wMooy/kQCKB2UnFP7kj1bODO7i02f8kP78OLPkvv+VEk3E3IS7sY0ZsdRJK9j25ieJXK AFpzICDIVntHcDrMOXKQLaECbcoFqe5yv5zjG+ZA2wxZLDBobnirHtPSdtqeUcecEl/s wBug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532i8IpzbSafueo63yxGzVgrvE7BL+kJtmLil7ooU0zNQkwfFssb mILiDABpJSV9xA0hviSQaeVLIDXpl5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDu22MMd+KTXySYfDH4YgGBecSQpqkMppuq6mbYzx79gaNXExq//DqNidUQ+8wOc3rrwnUBQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4c03:: with SMTP id na3mr3173756pjb.29.1597940808740; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.47] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d13sm2683367pjz.3.2020.08.20.09.26.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:26:45 -0700 Cc: Christian Hopps , lsr@ietf.org, lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00B90D0A-3B6F-495F-8C47-43C5841DEB22@tony.li> References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> To: Tony Li X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 16:26:51 -0000 I have reviewed the change in -10 and it seems fine to me. Objection = withdrawn. I support publication. Tony > On Aug 17, 2020, at 4:47 PM, tony.li@tony.li wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, = for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >>=20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I=E2=80=99d like to raise an objection. >=20 > Recently, I requested (and I thought that Peter agreed to) a = clarification of the Min Unidirectional Link Delay. >=20 > As of version -08, the draft references RFC 7810 for the Metric-type = in Section 5.1. =20 >=20 > That RFC defines both a =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D = (section 4.1) and =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D = (section 4.2). >=20 > I requested that the reference be extended to specify the section. >=20 > Instead, as of -09, the reference has been changed to refer to = ietf-isis-te-app. This is somewhat helpful becuase it makes it clear = that this should be found > in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV, but it still does = not resolve the ambiguity of which sub-sub-TLV should be used. >=20 > I would again request that this be clarified. Proposed text: >=20 > 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC 7810], = section 4.2, encoded in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV = [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >=20 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Regards, > Tony >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 20 11:51:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6553A12D3 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 11:51:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org 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ZToxMS4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_DM6PR13MB27620C96184E49111F77D3279A5A0DM6PR13MB2762namp_-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 18:12:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0C03A14FC for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:12:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XnDSUZg6JhtC for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E503A14F9 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 6014842E87; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:12:47 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:12:45 +0800 Message-ID: <006d01d67758$2d6fd720$884f8560$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01D6779B.3B942890" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHOe/OIzQye5A6bBRmOnrKde6ejXqlRtQ1w Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUpXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZS0lDTxlITUsdHkIeVkpOQkxCTElITUxNS05VEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVKS0tZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6OQg6SBw4HD8oCjMCATw5Ky8D TjxPCUJVSlVKTkJMQkxJSE1DS01OVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUpKSEtPNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a740e93486f9865kuuu6014842e87 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 01:12:56 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01D6779B.3B942890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all: =20 Support its adoption. >From the current contents of these two drafts, as Acee said, there are = enough differences between them. The area-proxy draft defining mainly = the extension of the TLVs that should be carried by the Proxy LSP, the = TTZ draft emphasizes mainly the smooth transition procedures and the = related protocol extension. =20 =20 Using the protocol to solve the transition problem can certainly ease = the deployment/operation overhead. =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 =20 =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:17 PM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent = Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt =20 =20 Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list = regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough = differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community = to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. =20 These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS = extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. =20 We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for = draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to = adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. =20 Thanks, Acee and Chris=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01D6779B.3B942890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    H= i, all:

    <= o:p> 

    S= upport its adoption.

    F= rom the current contents of these two drafts, as Acee said, there are = enough differences between them. The area-proxy draft defining mainly = the extension of the TLVs that should be carried by the Proxy LSP, the = TTZ draft emphasizes mainly the smooth transition procedures and the = related protocol extension.=C2=A0

    <= o:p> 

    U= sing the protocol to solve the transition problem can certainly ease the = deployment/operation overhead.

    <= o:p> 

    <= o:p> 

    B= est Regards

    <= o:p> 

    A= ijun Wang

    C= hina Telecom

    <= o:p> 

    <= o:p> 

    <= o:p> 

    From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem = (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:17 PM
    To: = lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for = "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - = draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discussions in the = last meeting and on the mailing list = regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there = are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the = community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental = track.

     

    These differences include = abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth = transition to/from zone abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG = adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your = support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September = 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris =

     

    ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01D6779B.3B942890-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 21:32:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8FE3A10C7; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ieee.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pSRgf12qBgK3; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x330.google.com (mail-ot1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 423213A10C3; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x330.google.com with SMTP id 93so664863otx.2; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hyiCJyDn+ykPeJUzwlcbB9U/NX7pDSwvgPjlOnUwMxE=; b=Y8BQ4ore3/MRFzzBFiyKYhezJjsDle9YcOxoQ8ocTwkZ1SLJEYE2jsSz3xj9gDA+VM QdRCsLivLP3l9hra9dNnHYRSmgDVqDX+uwCBGsE/g/bKtuNT7QjEZ918CVv4Jncwh8Qf EoZ7rJPCuDsKKg3bbSfaKR7XaKgWBu6q8ONno= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hyiCJyDn+ykPeJUzwlcbB9U/NX7pDSwvgPjlOnUwMxE=; b=JWuTWtpZ5I4VyF/v/ttaCTqAtfrb/CEdUUsVtPoWhgi+TJ1oKxkVeST1VhMLUS6ZWW PtCSAvBFgCfI9BgNWei2M5JWEB1P6IO1NQF3NrV2w4GCZRUO3LEzaJP0y7La+cv04jdc ODWacAYjspN5ra6f9RTsjCBHb9T9ROCcKINWr9T4A6OUAlRPuQHGvzIURdRHd4uKURDQ pOBskdugt7m9Sw2rFMapxOLjUOePZ69mKqsL7+RTY9RldzeD+Tqb/bq372Ov6eCUhaan HSxwoGuciQsG875uoqiqVpY1ogoeN6SupUPI0LcvHlnbG2FYtYMtTvgFl1foO5Zg36MF +UJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZW+DXUxKRioThjIrFeJJBA0P6Qbn9Ggqga1cH4hybOw2MdJ6v aRi+R2BbEAs+QAtcE8X+cyJvLwRPAqWfM/MxQnY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKUOAt+8OCCO6lzQoTx6abv6mlpUImLkbRWE3R9F9yrfM7Ni8RekpmL/4xf4fPd15yPYBX+5Ej4NxZSwzdkdI= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:67d3:: with SMTP id c19mr774052otn.162.1597984320474; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:32:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> From: LEI LIU Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:31:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c74ff305ad5bb772" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 04:32:03 -0000 --000000000000c74ff305ad5bb772 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR associated with this draft. Thanks, Best regards, Lei On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > > > > The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specifie= d > here: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ > > > > > > Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > > response has been received from each author and contributor. > > > > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > --000000000000c74ff305ad5bb772 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I=E2=80=99m not aware of any=C2=A0IPR= =C2=A0associated with this draft.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    <= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,=C2=A0


    Lei=C2=A0



    On Tu= e, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Authors,

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    The IETF IPRs declara= tions submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/ipr/4029/

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Are you aware of any = other IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz?

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If so, has this IPR b= een disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<= /p>

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879,= 3669 and 5378 for more details).

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are listed as = a document author or contributor please respond

    to this email regardl= ess of whether or not you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The re= sponse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document w= ill not advance to the next stage until a

    response has been rec= eived from each author and contributor.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are on the LSR= WG email list but are not listed as an author or

    contributor, then ple= ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not = yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee





    --000000000000c74ff305ad5bb772-- From nobody Thu Aug 20 21:36:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDFD3A1824 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ieee.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lW0_Qh3TnJHG for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61BDB3A1819 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id c4so627909otf.12 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MPcLqTBmC2vANewIpjvgt+f9h+swjchsSYllokoQ9o0=; b=VLoz9Plvh3R16cyw62sUi/+zAKmMnl+WP+JBugcG0R9rexOD8BNI86BzVKnlZoUz3Q dO2byUTnTbUSTq2w//tPbGJk7JROkhNpOr6u8VY1pUg05fT9+UGELyV5j+m1NoYxpUEP u70l1HfIvVd6Nwuccwrav/Y8yRk8djg8TSY0k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MPcLqTBmC2vANewIpjvgt+f9h+swjchsSYllokoQ9o0=; b=QSilaeRAQxCdDYfLkhA1mNdh6T2TqujZEvNrpp7mArvG0B+mG255cckzfhd+OUweO0 eiJFduvXAqFjlTNVzUpVtziQuKI51tlKsyICO4Ay7W3wlxHmCzKa4SdI8qRBtmHCNrxe S2mJWvkCOCEJCbnfmeDymntfUG7NImCXP/85fPPhJkiBwgkSxc8S0Es7IBkt8NgPXVP4 zNJlfPNu8cao7eWhmbZ2boT2zeHYAReLHXYFgDO2k2EEvBrVOCCAYAWJh+DH6ePcCu+f hcuPZgHLxBQve76IvC1LlBLJwhgTz8SHgT4ZyyQJ7np3HchaspcCfVS+vDe38r0KTd2u A4yw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532kghYCOaFFGivxrxLlbP9UwMilIfYRDv+F0P8+5NR9rmfVKDWn DNRyOYjQNDQhiYzB9IG+Aa3PGnhLN8NI2HxngghgEaxz0v/PGQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxU9/2ELAlV16vEd1S84o4pBEGEm4gHgDDneXTPS5prGMh8O0BX4bGSrYBRgrYnOigPmdTv1HwUl9H1mrx4YzY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1b79:: with SMTP id d25mr707520ote.107.1597984582598; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: LEI LIU Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 21:36:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000067032505ad5bc71e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 04:36:25 -0000 --00000000000067032505ad5bc71e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support as a co-author. Thanks, Best regards, Lei On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --00000000000067032505ad5bc71e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support as a co-author.

    Thanks,
    Best regards,=C2=A0
    Lei

    On Tue, Aug 18, = 2020 at 7:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr




    --00000000000067032505ad5bc71e-- From nobody Fri Aug 21 22:14:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC743A0C0A for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:14:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HstnTV4NsZxr for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12f.google.com (mail-il1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A8283A0C08 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id k4so3116910ilr.12 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:14:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yx6RfHL0z8m0wE1cdpV61joimxuIVdhcRSh00vBZuqc=; b=qqCXbBRvF3NaGdr3NFUn4V6VTpaqM+wejGas4+B93kQehtjlE9rx4srQq1diIPTod5 3gxNoT9OKCmycfgnCOyVo6hx4qEoNt6Lfa9wOCaMmKa5W5TbpiaxN2nNZMKCLrIzb1G+ VeFOh7UmikFBOySTm7Na85r3XBroPOlcatX0cTq1N3nB5kaFwUKrXxJd+kZWEofE5koS rwHdrcWQaf9R57snGFUXcQPAr1f7qfT750oHVvoll7lvlQZsqMyhM4PlNMAE0B3yH0/t C3yC+quUE96BVGhg3mSSYR8NX0tgvqFdQzA5JnC6iZM/1vUZMhvz8MHdq4B7mcBzmcDg 66iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=yx6RfHL0z8m0wE1cdpV61joimxuIVdhcRSh00vBZuqc=; b=eals46YghIbZhKBOETGVWYsDJunKfjvP2btRDvdIesEHKNHueTNbmr0lPaSXpwdfFs 4NUMVMO6BS+UkcLOp2GdQy9lSKw8gIqj7/msXOrQEq/uUtPag9sB6OaaVH3HYxLCF1bZ h97HVtJlMtXew2Kv+lX1LUOcdbZAV4JVrOvOCkTJec1sJyCGi3SgYBb+Hm8W36U1NSZE mKEvR/lBf0cus7Hz/oPhRTpU1KUMR6SNY2ybQL9QzEzXqk5IA/9vtJtnNJxyabf6h3pF f1nBelLy4FunpAKxtd7Y68LbQfVG6kCbL/cZ29gCpo6+W54JxtbqnFEMs+jj4c4GBwEg +bjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531O4mCBZZoF/J/AAb+Jl9XnjQRmHXI5gutAA72HPhJtg7W6oxzf vkZIc1ZEYes5wTQO1wcn0baMiDs2d6ABrQF4BQm3WDOA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxHXqDABRozMUSs+sh3vPDIcqwrZRMtOX6lCn1VAreHq0TzCKu1bKKSnVxk9Vt2Zk4kI+T6P5Xfxw1PRnJ0Pk8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1352:: with SMTP id k18mr5031492ilr.276.1598073282995; Fri, 21 Aug 2020 22:14:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Donald Eastlake Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:14:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ba98605ad706e7d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 05:14:46 -0000 --0000000000005ba98605ad706e7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I support working group adoption of this draft as experimental. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000005ba98605ad706e7d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I support working group adoption of this draft as experime= ntal.

    Thanks,
    Donald
    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=C2=A0Donald E. Eastlake 3rd =C2=A0 +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
    =C2=A02386 P= anoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
    =C2=A0d3e3e3@gmail.com

    <= br>
    On Tue,= Aug 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
    --0000000000005ba98605ad706e7d-- From nobody Sat Aug 22 08:16:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5966A3A0903; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 08:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2CsuiWL8ktzB; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE36C3A090C; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id j9so3782067ilc.11; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 08:16:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eaBpUABumjbAXFoAxAzO8oNXXZsiZtW2q6EfFzAF364=; b=iuMqiVQdpxYz0iey6mMLTWCBso8ucyJhqaViiOCHC4si6wfkpEWL7pneVDpxcbkww4 6FtRlpHcRZgzlnPB830Ljok5DUWjLI0QrsVHgNbw5hikPyiPis/nemVI9AU2GKqG/uRZ mqxcxgG+dE9mGdJOVuO3IULLzHosH/ITtI+VeSEnX3uTyd0cqluRqIgWUvx57tUILRas 9cL2W/6Vhyx/6475PvfTraUPpQAY5V9o7vOZp8HxlHrLMHHjBLBDkMWMO/Dzrk91eNIU Quu1GBZSYiqJRcMv1PKt/rvM/RTCElSxLZ6lZF217VsT90OSZNHDCZzq0dFdGrKxHXER kqyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eaBpUABumjbAXFoAxAzO8oNXXZsiZtW2q6EfFzAF364=; b=PPAdXYKxx1Xu0VPqfFJjW2LY64O+pln1USGqiOdbZKTz9VWCWcVDHVPBZjV8G4gVia Vsj0LOJ41686z62VeqF6eUnBwDgQwU4L2uiP4CVVfZHr5kPlLDLzrI3t/qdhBcCubg5B 9eVzjj1Lc9UviV3yRmJVfphsuic2SGse/MUhCN9HMIjo+A8OdQCqwZy3Jst1llG2Xu7l NV9XAG6IyF2duImFG7lNbtzU8qH8CxpJYxiJhnCSnotNbThy+SzgkYvWPIB8xHgQPhx6 f2YoWqIW8G0Bt4ZHW9SBkTKKE8Pzc7jE36rz5NrAZ5CmftB5TijjhUQ4pLH2Tyme6mvF qC1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531N8kOBOjunS+Kx0AhI//J2oaOb7a+mKumGGlm/W7yPKuAh7tYm tgc1bJeEztpKyZZDez+Siurdgc+ZxcQSnx4NRrE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyc0D1Bn3nfb6rkEapyyhteB5a4sxY5uTAhYYyd5CazRjSBgk0j8jZk1arDY4e8Va9dC8h2m251AnZo+wFVBkI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:13ac:: with SMTP id h12mr6395653ilo.153.1598109380875; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 08:16:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Anil Kumar Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 20:46:08 +0530 Message-ID: To: LEI LIU Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr@ietf.org, "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f5992105ad78d5a8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 15:16:24 -0000 --000000000000f5992105ad78d5a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I am not aware of any undeclared IPR for this document. With Regards Anil S N On Fri, 21 Aug, 2020, 10:02 LEI LIU, wrote: > I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR associated with this draft. > > > > Thanks, > > Best regards, > > > Lei > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote= : > >> Authors, >> >> >> >> The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are >> specified here: >> >> >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? >> >> >> >> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules >> >> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). >> >> >> >> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond >> >> to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any >> >> relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing >> >> list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a >> >> response has been received from each author and contributor. >> >> >> >> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or >> >> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of >> >> any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000f5992105ad78d5a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi All,

    I am not aware of any undeclared IPR for this = document.


    With Regards
    Anil S N

    On Fri, 21 Aug, 2020, 10= :02 LEI LIU, <liulei@ieee.org>= wrote:

    I=E2=80=99m = not aware of any=C2=A0IPR=C2=A0associated with this draft.<= /u>

    = =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Best regards,=C2=A0


    Lei=C2=A0



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) = <= acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Authors,

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    The IETF IPRs declara= tions submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    https://= datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Are you aware of any = other IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz?

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If so, has this IPR b= een disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<= /p>

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879,= 3669 and 5378 for more details).

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are listed as = a document author or contributor please respond

    to this email regardl= ess of whether or not you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The re= sponse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document w= ill not advance to the next stage until a

    response has been rec= eived from each author and contributor.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are on the LSR= WG email list but are not listed as an author or

    contributor, then ple= ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not = yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee



    <= br>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ie= tf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Thanks, Mehmet --0000000000006aa70d05ad7998bd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Support the <= /span>adaption of the IS-IS TTZ draft. = 
    Thanks,
Mehmet
    --0000000000006aa70d05ad7998bd-- From nobody Sat Aug 22 11:10:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBD53A0A06 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9fMDCWcmVp9 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CE223A0A01 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id v6so4804036iow.11 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:10:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7I7SRJE/xL+DPdMLI1kZtRWVOOJIKDMc9F841aUSSnU=; b=DUBJhUmUZpaL6ahmVwqCkyKefDca9+wgrk9du5VV3xt7UUt1FsXdaur6YiAVAGQGb8 lDJYK6ljm4/v4Dd+oR+W9uczsjgg6uClhGfqemilOKceq/sMxlpE925lu9x6zAPtLMx+ qJu5ToSA+acPj81CLTnOe1U3BstS6pvdvNPCVVbtm8b9k1ktu6SE4m8eEL7ofLGnwPWC CP1mO9w0GX3Oivi/tQFpdWa3uOKiBjhicmiXySHan6T068WivhtIYR4Ke6VWASKxXrXo Smsfkcs2UZk1wQD7wcW//DV1f68hxDtTbJp1/pjWElC2Ut1zpq3cXEn0uG6JwUm62K0/ +oYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7I7SRJE/xL+DPdMLI1kZtRWVOOJIKDMc9F841aUSSnU=; b=Eizn6rCYna4JMXgOx7pnuHZ9uKgyzApuAk2DzRwTgHw25Y2xue3p0717My3QHbEKOX Oqa35b7XVBAcJVLEJaxLJwnDy3t1qpH2aCv+AczZB99NZlh/nwZStZGEijr0+QlTwbzG CjbGKa/ixD73LWHH763JDK01x36Yzlma6hR14EWD+4FD/JfIWKugIXNHqEtvh0CkV76n NNXfPmXxWbFVRmqvEDp++tTZ1664z9fX42PJrN4xN0VEIg56uptZ0YEyuUc0LW7vQWyz 1ugS54yeg6+tBZ8+/tA1Jmov4VgLMfW0GsqPNeBZNdiDGGBo7ffCTPfGuoV+bSszxiqH k0zw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rk4U0FDFRY4Vhwi8isLhXlPcbQGkqlU/c1WHU1/QUJWyECrW6 AsZ834VLlSsLwjdDO/kyD5q0rvDUln8IP4S8fps= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzncf71/mmIFnHJY/W8VGJMVUpzSAiSaNxBu13v2SRcpwWY1vmNa5YydXvmLxFcxFnKpnI84L/6Knuu8vUXWSg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:220f:: with SMTP id n15mr6692240ion.103.1598119811775; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Anil Kumar Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 23:40:00 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b0838605ad7b4305" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:10:14 -0000 --000000000000b0838605ad7b4305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi All, As Co-Author, I support working group adoption of this draft as experimental. With Regards Anil S N On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:47 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000b0838605ad7b4305 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi All,

    As Co-Author, I support w= orking group=C2=A0adoption=C2=A0of this=C2= =A0draft=C2=A0as experimental.

    With = Regards
    Anil S N

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:47 PM Acee Lindem (acee= ) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:18:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyB0KqH7u0UM87SoY3gkzSewZOkoA5We91LnC+mcn597TU2YfOWFngNGcxHTYqmjaQM3bLgh1RYPILBdxjETVo= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1349:: with SMTP id f9mr9056768qtj.24.1598145512697; Sat, 22 Aug 2020 18:18:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Toy, Mehmet" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2020 21:18:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org, acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000958bf305ad813f8e" X-mailroute: internal X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=out_spam_notspam policy=out_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=1 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008230008 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 01:18:38 -0000 --000000000000958bf305ad813f8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support adoption of "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt . Thanks Mehmet ------------------------------ *From:* Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM *To:* lsr@ietf.org *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --000000000000958bf305ad813f8e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support=C2=A0adoption of=C2=A0 "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt .=
    Thanks
    Mehmet


    From:=C2=A0Lsr <l= sr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dma= rc.ietf.org>
    Sent:=C2=A0Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 AM<= br>To:=C2=A0lsr@ie= tf.org=C2=A0<lsr@i= etf.org>
    Subject:=C2=A0[Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for &quo= t;IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt    =
    =C2=A0

    = =C2=A0

    Based on the discussions in the = last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz-11,= the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr= -isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independe= ntly on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences include abstraction a= t arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from z= one abstraction.

    =C2=A0

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-= chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to adoption= prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, Ketan, all, While I tend to agree with Ketan that, in principle, specific control plane= protocol name might not be the most useful bit of info, I would argue that= it still makes more sense to keep IE46 in this format instead of replacing= it with srsidtype. I.e. treat IE46 as in 'control plane protocol that is t= he source/owner of a particular label in LIB/LFIB'. Maybe we should conside= r adding a generic type 'Segment Routing' w/o extra details if this might b= ecome an implementation challenge? I'm in favor of keeping SrSidType as a separate entity -> this seems to be = significantly more complex to implement and arguably IPFIX may not be the b= est way to collect this info. -- Sergey From: spring On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketan= t) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:23 AM To: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [spring] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, Thanks for your response. Let us also wait for inputs from others in the WG= s. One small bit. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? Thomas> "admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over anot= her from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an = examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option. KT2> The proposal to extend IE46 will cover the "sr-prefer" scenario and in= dicate whether the forwarding is happening with SR or LDP label. IMHO OSPF = SR vs ISIS SR is perhaps not as useful? Also, from an operational perspective (looking holistically), we have LSP p= ing/trace tools specified for MPLS (including SR segments/labels) to verify= /validate consistency between forwarding and control plane to determine whi= ch protocol/label is being used and lot's more details. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 18 August 2020 18:28 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the feedback. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? Thomas> I am open to this approach to change IE46 to include segment types = for RFC8402. I understand your concern to add additional fields. I would ap= preciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? Thomas> "admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over anot= her from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an = examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... Thomas> Correct [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? Thomas> See feedback above. [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thomas> Absolutely. I fully agree on your feedback. We need to have the min= imum possible in order to have a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Si= nce IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentation= , we need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields. Best Wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, Please check inline below. From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. [KT] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the tra= ffic forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the netw= ork.. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling= to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two= is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with P= refix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particula= r adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, = ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead t= o the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment rou= ting networks more efficiently and quickly. [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? * am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thanks, Ketan Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update... Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_BYAPR08MB54935D8454329096A4567E2D85560BYAPR08MB5493namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Thomas, Ketan, all,

     

    While I tend to agree with Ketan that, in principle,= specific control plane protocol name might not be the most useful bit of i= nfo, I would argue that it still makes more sense to keep IE46 in this form= at instead of replacing it with srsidtype. I.e. treat IE46 as in ‘control plane protocol that is the source/own= er of a particular label in LIB/LFIB’. Maybe we should consider addin= g a generic type 'Segment Routing' w/o extra details if this might become a= n implementation challenge?

     

    I'm in favor of keeping SrSidType as a separate enti= ty -> this seems to be significantly more complex to implement and argua= bly IPFIX may not be the best way to collect this info.

     

    --=

    Sergey

    From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:23 AM
    To: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [spring] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    Thanks for your response. Let u= s also wait for inputs from others in the WGs.

     

    One small bit.

     

    [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and IS= IS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preference selection (done bas= ed on “admin distance” between protocol selection in RIB)?<= /b>

    Thomas> "admin distance&= quot; is one reason why one path is considered over another from two differ= ent protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option.

    KT2> The proposal to extend = IE46 will cover the “sr-prefer” scenario and indicate whether t= he forwarding is happening with SR or LDP label. IMHO OSPF SR vs ISIS SR is= perhaps not as useful?

     

    Also, from an operational persp= ective (looking holistically), we have LSP ping/trace tools specified for M= PLS (including SR segments/labels) to verify/validate consistency between f= orwarding and control plane to determine which protocol/label is being used and lot’s more details.

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 18 August 2020 18:28
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very much for the feed= back.

     

    [KT] Why not extend the e= xisting IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency= SID, SR Binding SID … (basically the segment types from RFC8402)? It= ’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers?=

    Thomas> I am o= pen to this approach to change IE46 to include segment types for RFC8402. I= understand your concern to add additional fields. I would appreciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go.=

     =

    [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and IS= IS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preference selection (done bas= ed on “admin distance” between protocol selection in RIB)?<= /b>

    Thomas> "admin distance&= quot; is one reason why one path is considered over another from two differ= ent protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option.

     

    [KT] From the document, I believe we are still= talking only about the top of the stack label …=

    Thomas> Correct

     

    [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce a= nother ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 as suggested above?

    Thomas> See feedback above.

     

     

    [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the PO= V of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my feedback and perspectiv= e:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements = and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/infor= mation to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks this info (traditionally from the &#= 8220;FIB”). This added information should have a strong enough justif= ication of benefit – e.g. How does difference between Adj SID and LAN= Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” of flow information collected= and perhaps not everything needs to be determined and reported by routers.=

     

    Thomas> Absolutely. I fully a= gree on your feedback. We need to have the minimum possible in order to hav= e a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Since IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentation, w= e need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields.<= /o:p>

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    Please check inline below.=

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    • This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS se= gment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

    To be precise, the existing MPLS= Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidT= ype IPFIX IE being proposed.

    [KT] Why not extend the e= xisting IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency= SID, SR Binding SID … (basically the segment types from RFC8402)? It= ’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers?=

     

    • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the= SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

     

    It is important to distinguish b= etween intend and result.

    [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and IS= IS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preference selection (done bas= ed on “admin distance” between protocol selection in RIB)?<= /b>

     

    If you migrate from one label di= stribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if = the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 ena= bles that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at the = intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

    [KT] Sure, so adding the = SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the traffic forwarding is happen= ing using LDP or SR labels at any link in the network..

     =

    • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it = was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    Quote from RFC8402. "Segmen= t Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". Means that not = the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.. <= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-se= rif">

    [KT] From the document, I believe we are still= talking only about the top of the stack label …=

     

    With IPFIX SrSidType we are able= to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the result of this d= ecision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the t= wo is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID= with Prefix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that= a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we underst= and that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables to narro= w down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficiently and q= uickly.

    [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce a= nother ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 as suggested above?

     

    • am asking for WG to weigh t= he implementation complexities

     

    For the WG and me, I would be im= portant if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to ha= ve a better understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciat= e if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= .

    [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the PO= V of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my feedback and perspectiv= e:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements = and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/infor= mation to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks this info (traditionally from the &#= 8220;FIB”). This added information should have a strong enough justif= ication of benefit – e.g. How does difference between Adj SID and LAN= Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” of flow information collected= and perhaps not everything needs to be determined and reported by routers.=

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    Best wishes

    Thomas

     

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    I should have been more clear i= n my email.

     

    The proposal/suggestion is to a= dd the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:

    • SR Prefix SID
    • SR Adjacency SID
    • SR Binding SID
    • SR BG= P Peering SID
    • … and = so on

     

    This helps identification of sp= ecific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP= -TE, etc.

     

    And my questions were:

    1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the= SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?
    2. What value is provided fo= r IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    I am asking for WG to weigh the= implementation complexities and overheads with the proposed details of SR-= MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) that they provide for t= he flow analysis and monitoring.

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very much for the revi= ew and feedback.

     

    • What or how much value be there on determining w= hether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3= /ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multip= le protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs.

     

    As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swissc= om when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The= key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we= enable the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the consi= deration.

     

    • IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB= in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this informa= tion is not available therein.

     

    I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

    https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides= -108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

     

    Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.

     =

    I do understand your point that = not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that’s not th= e point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an I= PFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the de= cision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point.

     

    • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt= via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?

     =

    In this case the = IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     =

    • For that table proposal, it= is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different between Pref= ix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements= and we can be sure more get added.<= /span>

     

    I fully agree. As a network oper= ator its still hard to understand the architecture and constraints within a= router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sense. By pu= rpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with the aim t= o start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what makes se= nse. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     

    In above mentioned slides I desc= ribed how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in the FIB by show= ing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol was use= d to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to further unders= tand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     

    I hope this makes all sense. Loo= king forward for reply.

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    < also copying Spring WG for= their review/inputs >

     

    Hi Thomas/All,

     

    I have reviewed the draft and w= ould like to share a different perspective.

     

    What or how much value be there= on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node = via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that i= t is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from diff= erent IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implem= entation where the protocol does not matter and this information is not ava= ilable therein.

     

    On some nodes, the same Prefix = SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?=

     

    I would recommend using SR Pref= ix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on R= 30; for the MPLS Label Type.

     

    This also takes away the need f= or the second table that is being proposed to a large extent. For that tabl= e proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to differen= t between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure mor= e get added. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an A= djacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    Could we evaluate the implement= ation overhead and complexity of this level of categorization/information i= n IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle g= round?

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    To: hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Hannes,

     =

    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Y= es, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update...<= /span>

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas

     

     =

    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Thomas,

     

    I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

     

    Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

     

    thanks,

     

    /hannes

    =  

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

     

    Dear lsr,

     

    I presented the following draft

     <= /span>

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Info= rmation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yester= day

     <= /span>

    and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption.=

     <= /span>

    This draft adds additional segment routing cod= e points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and s= egment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.<= /span>

     <= /span>

    I have been asked to not only gather feedback = from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working groups since thes= e code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     <= /span>

    I am looking forward to your feedback and inpu= t.

     <= /span>

    Best Wishes

    Thomas Graf

    ___________________________________= ____________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=

     

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ESMTP id D1E023A0BA1 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 02:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.013 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.013 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OwQFN5avrkOQ for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 02:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBD353A0B9E for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 02:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 4D97C43C0A; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:11:39 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Gyan Mishra'" Cc: "'Peter Psenak'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , "'Huzhibo'" , "'Aijun Wang'" , "'lsr'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Xiaoyaqun'" References: <059e01d66ad7$ffda2e50$ff8e8af0$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:11:37 +0800 Message-ID: <013301d679f6$92da3ce0$b88eb6a0$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0134_01D67A39.A0FF9FC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: zh-cn Thread-Index: AQKwsgRl8uq4ZZAYYiwm8gqgwsmPuwLfhjxOAXwBCl8B/jVB7AHXWAwnp1D5U6A= X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUpXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZH0hPHkgdQh1LT00aVkpOQkNJTUtJQkJNTUNVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVKS0tZBg++ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Kyo6DTo6Mj8tFjAILAw8EQ06 LyMwCgtVSlVKTkJDSU1LSEtLSEtKVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUhDSUhNNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a741fbcc7389865kuuu4d97c43c0a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 09:11:49 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0134_01D67A39.A0FF9FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Gyan: =20 Sorry for replying you so late. You are right about the summary address behavior, but the summary = address is configured by manually, and if one of the specific prefix = within this summary range is down, the black hole(route to this specific = prefix) will be formed. PUA mechanism just want to amend this. Glad to know Rift has also noticed such issues. In OSPF/ISIS, such = problem needs also be solved. =20 If you are interested this topic, welcome to join us to the solution. =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Gyan Mishra Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:44 PM To: Aijun Wang Cc: Peter Psenak ; Robert Raszuk = ; Huzhibo ; Aijun Wang = ; lsr ; Acee Lindem (acee) = ; Xiaoyaqun Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt =20 Hi Aijun and authors =20 I am catching up with this thread after reading through this draft. =20 I understand the concept that we are trying to send a PUA advertisement = which sounds similar to Rift Negative Disaggregation prefix now with a = null setting when a longer match component prefix that is part of a = summary range is down to detect prefix down conditions with longer match = component prefixes that are part of a summary. =20 =20 Basically how summarization works with both OSPF and ISIS is that at = minimum a single longer match within the defined IA summary range must = exist for the IA summary to be sent. So the summary is sent = conditionally similar to a BGP conditional advertisement or even a ospf = default originate which requires a default in the RIB to exist before = the advertisement is sent. A good example of non conditional analogy = with BGP if you have a null0 static for a summary for an exact match BGP = advertisement the prefix is always advertised no matter what even if no = component prefixes exist. This can result in black hole routing. BGP = has conditional feature to conditionally advertisement based on = existence of a route advertisement of downstream neighbor in the BGP = RIB. So with ospf and Isis the summary is in fact conditional similar = to a BGP conditional advertisement and in the example given in the draft = in section 3.1 when node T2 is down and pt2 becomes unreachable and = let=E2=80=99s say that prefix is 1.1.1.1/32 and the = summary is 1.1.1.0/30 and no other component prefix = exists within the summary range the prefix will not get adversed. So = there will not be any black hole. =20 =20 The summary represents all prefixes within the range that would be = suppressed with the summary when advertised into the backbone area. = However only at a minimum one prefix must exist in the range for the = summary to be generated. That is done by design as the summary = represents all prefixes within the range. So let=E2=80=99s say there = are a 100 prefixes and let=E2=80=99s say a few devices are down and so = now only 5 prefixes exist within the range. By design it is OK for = router to generate the summary for the 5 prefixes it is representing and = that will not cause any routing loop or black hole. =20 =20 I am trying to understand wage gap exists and what we are trying to = solve related to summarization in the context of IPv6. Both IPv4 and = IPV6 summarization operates the similarly as far as the requirement of = at minimum a single component route within the summary range must exist = as a condition to be present in the RIB before the summary can be = advertised. =20 Kind Regards=20 =20 Gyan =20 On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:25 PM Aijun Wang > wrote: Hi, Robert: =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org ] On Behalf = Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 PM To: Aijun Wang = > Cc: Peter Psenak >; Huzhibo >; Aijun Wang >; lsr >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; Xiaoyaqun > Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt =20 [WAJ] Such information is for underlay link state and should be flooded = via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP summary behavior and should be = solved by itself? =20 Well if we look at this problem from a distance while on surface it = seems like an IGP issue (not to mention some which use BGP as IGP :) IMO = it is only hurting when you have some service overlay on top utilizing = the IGP.=20 [WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no service = overlay running over IGP. Scenarios described in = = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03#section-3 are not = tightly coupled with the overlay service. =20 So typically today if I am running any service with BGP I do count on = BGP to remove routes which are no longer reachable. IGP just tells me = how to get to the next hop, which direction to go and not if the = endpoint (service CPE or PE connected to given CE) is up or down.=20 =20 So today smart BGP implementations in good network design can use RD = based withdraws to very fast (milliseconds) remove the affected service = routes. When I said should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this is = good enough to quickly remove service routes. If not maybe we should = send such affected next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes = with such next hop as failing PE.=20 =20 Bottom line if you think the problem is IGP then I think Acee's comments = apply.=20 [WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet? =20 Last - See today you are bringing the case to signal transition to DOWN = ... but for some people and applications it may be not enough. In fact = UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. But if you have two ABRs and one will due = to topology changes in its area suddenly will be forced to reach atomic = destination covered by summary over much higher metric path that for = applications running above may be much more severe case and not = acceptable one too.=20 [WAJ] Or else, the application traffic will be broken. =20 And BGP will not remove service routes nor modify best path in any way = as summary is masking the real metric to some next hops. So while in the = network you may have alternate better native transit paths with a lot of = free capacity if you only switch to a different bgp next hop (not = talking about any TE at all) you are stuck offering much worse service = to your customers.=20 [WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected prefix via the ABR, = then this ABR will not send the PUA information. =20 Those cases are starting to be solved by performance routing both at the = service itself or at BGP nh levels. Should IGP assist here ... I am not = sure. [WAJ] when node become down, it can only depend on other nodes within = the same IGP to send such unreachability information. IGP can certainly = help here J =20 =20 Many thx, R. _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --=20 =20 Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect=20 M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike=20 Silver Spring, MD =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0134_01D67A39.A0FF9FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    H= i, Gyan:

    <= o:p> 

    S= orry for replying you so late.

    Y= ou are right about the summary address behavior, but the summary address = is configured by manually, and if one of the specific prefix within this = summary range is down, the black hole(route to this specific prefix) = will be formed.=C2=A0 PUA mechanism just want to amend = this.

    G= lad to know Rift has also noticed such issues. =C2=A0In OSPF/ISIS, such = problem needs also be solved.

    <= o:p> 

    I= f you are interested this topic, welcome to join us to the = solution.

    <= o:p> 

    <= o:p> 

    B= est Regards

    <= o:p> 

    A= ijun Wang

    C= hina Telecom

    <= o:p> 

    From:<= /b> = lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Gyan Mishra
    Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:44 = PM
    To: Aijun Wang = <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
    Cc: Peter Psenak = <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net>; Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun = Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee = Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Xiaoyaqun = <xiaoyaqun@huawei.com>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version = Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt

     

    Hi Aijun and = authors

     

    I am catching up with this thread after reading through = this draft.

     

    I understand the concept that we are trying to send a PUA = advertisement which sounds similar to Rift Negative Disaggregation = prefix now with a  null setting when a longer match component = prefix that is part of a summary range is down to detect prefix down = conditions with longer match component prefixes that are part of a = summary.  

     

    Basically how summarization works with both OSPF and ISIS = is that at minimum a single longer match within the defined IA summary = range must exist for the IA summary to be sent.  So the summary is = sent conditionally similar to a BGP conditional advertisement or even a = ospf default originate which requires a default in the RIB to exist = before the advertisement is sent.  A good example of non = conditional analogy with BGP if you have a null0 static for a summary = for an exact match BGP advertisement the prefix is always advertised no = matter what even if no component prefixes exist.  This can result = in black hole routing. BGP has conditional feature to conditionally = advertisement based on existence of a route advertisement of downstream = neighbor in the BGP RIB.  So with ospf and Isis the summary is in = fact conditional similar to a BGP conditional advertisement and in the = example given in the draft in section 3.1 when node T2 is down and pt2 = becomes unreachable and let=E2=80=99s say that prefix is 1.1.1.1/32 and the summary is 1.1.1.0/30 and no other component prefix = exists within the summary range the prefix will not get adversed.  = So there will not be any black hole. =  

     

    The summary represents all prefixes within the range that = would be suppressed with the summary when advertised into the backbone = area.  However only at a minimum one prefix must exist in the range = for the summary to be generated.  That is done by design as the = summary represents all prefixes within the range.  So let=E2=80=99s = say there are a 100 prefixes and let=E2=80=99s say a few devices are = down and so now only 5 prefixes exist within the range.  By design = it is OK for router to generate the summary for the 5 prefixes it is = representing and that will not cause any routing loop or black = hole.

     

     

    I am trying to understand wage gap exists and what we are = trying to solve related to summarization in the context of IPv6.  = Both IPv4 and IPV6 summarization operates the similarly as far as the = requirement of at minimum a single component route within the summary = range must exist  as a condition to be present in the RIB before = the summary can be advertised.

     

    Kind Regards 

     

    Gyan

     

    On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:25 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&g= t; wrote:

    H= i, Robert:

    &= nbsp;

    From:<= /b> lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert = Raszuk
    Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:21 PM
    To: Aijun = Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
    Cc: Peter = Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; = Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Xiaoyaqun <xiaoyaqun@huawei.com>
    Subject: Re: = [Lsr] New Version Notification for = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03.txt

     

    [WAJ] Such information is for underlay = link state and should be flooded via IGP? The ambiguity arises from IGP = summary behavior and should be solved by = itself?

     

    Well if we look at this problem from a = distance while on surface it seems like an IGP issue (not to mention = some which use BGP as IGP :) IMO it is only hurting when you have some = service overlay on top utilizing the = IGP. 

    [= WAJ] There are situations that the PUA mechanism apply when no service = overlay running over IGP.  Scenarios described in draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-03#= section-3 are not tightly coupled with the overlay = service.

    &= nbsp;

    So typically today if I am running any = service with BGP I do count on BGP to remove routes which are no longer = reachable. IGP just tells me how to get to the next hop, which direction = to go and not if the endpoint (service CPE or PE connected to given CE) = is up or down. 

     

    So today smart BGP implementations in = good network design can use RD based withdraws to very fast = (milliseconds) remove the affected service routes. When I said = should we do it in BGP I meant to ask WG if this is good enough = to quickly remove service routes. If not maybe we should send = such affected next hop in BGP to even faster invalidate all routes with = such next hop as failing PE. 

     

    Bottom line if you think the problem is = IGP then I think Acee's comments apply. 

    [= WAJ] Which comment is not addressed yet?

     

    Last - See today you are bringing the = case to signal transition to DOWN ... but for some people and = applications it may be not enough. In fact UP/DOWN they can get via BGP. = But if you have two ABRs and one will due to topology changes in its = area suddenly will be forced to reach atomic destination covered by = summary over much higher metric path that for applications running above = may be much more severe case and not acceptable one = too. 

    [= WAJ] Or else, the application traffic will be = broken.

     

    And BGP will not remove service routes = nor modify best path in any way as summary is masking the real metric to = some next hops. So while in the network you may have alternate better = native transit paths with a lot of free capacity if you only switch to a = different bgp next hop (not talking about any TE at all) you are stuck = offering much worse service to your = customers. 

    [= WAJ] if there are other links to reach the affected prefix via the ABR, = then this ABR will not send the PUA information.

     

    Those cases are starting to be solved by = performance routing both at the service itself or at BGP nh levels. = Should IGP assist here ... I am not sure.

    [= WAJ] when node become down, it can only depend on other nodes within the = same IGP to send such unreachability information. IGP can certainly help = here J

     

     

    Many = thx,

    R.

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr = mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

    -- =

    =

    Gyan = Mishra

    Network = Solutions Architect 

    M 301 = 502-1347
    13101 Columbia Pike 
    Silver Spring, = MD

     

    ------=_NextPart_000_0134_01D67A39.A0FF9FC0-- From nobody Mon Aug 24 10:02:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878963A1184 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1bn5P1JGtq2i for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52f.google.com (mail-pg1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95DB13A1181 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id d19so4837034pgl.10 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:references:to:date; bh=PcyUigZtZCJGJeY3Hl87GYLoJ6g6kOBq3PfEleZ4zPU=; b=giYKVlNFM0rC/H0+TlGvUGkQl6tEUYp6lOWGVAu+to7yVHEfcqzcaEJDMZq/bnituc FrqqbGjFaSC0r5e7p90vOXBWncKT7REQ47P7l7+TiqVd6S7ESRSdSrinV/8RpNnI2T0i pBbJ5bM9h0Q4R4gnOcIakWcqEy5k25R/Joy6JBhnmiBwKI80z7eIUcEE/c3jrPA4GK9X 4mH7ezu8lx5V6i9Lpz1Pwz9L6Vq1sKxzeuIDi+bLF4GUCsOfcVmpfvw8QaJRFr4uLMCx EtvEL5GxfUF2RNxgxR3Q2/bEbqm0AEB09D6eWWkLPHsjD5KkHBaIMV6Tc9PDdIN/DEF9 2UOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:mime-version:subject:message-id :references:to:date; bh=PcyUigZtZCJGJeY3Hl87GYLoJ6g6kOBq3PfEleZ4zPU=; b=r8XDSXM+JwS9avV51t2p/yhAqH6aRuhHMBk50Qrbg+rvDH05nsY3Z8fhDcbC4OcCKY U0ABohLUW+5kPyHFYzuq8qxlaniBGHceWC2Yq47Yr6737ZnuMImHIlGlfaTFRurJnKTz 3ppms2nEP/aMP9rXfaZIBnJhmTI5WoLaMbK+QkFWXsGWeh4uZ+Xm2yuTCVQBQ7yPBfqz xuYkqEDfVrP6DxZ4hT7sRkFAetmGZwHmFlMOxxGmXAhmOSlOB47VEiPkyQVenTq7seJI //wfnXjE+TUU1hR/4/K/+ixMJcLwJ98c+cz+cnxZWlh7WnXQX1K3oXzlUB9rCyxo2pZq RBag== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532CtpX4Iv8PVFQVxRuWs2NxX5uTpRQP0WmtT7EeONg1L1PTHLvM BMSJU3y39tmRAs9Ljyc2OtzKcwRyKJA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyPYY2vb/L6ssQ7CRm4tlunHNsQ5MnXDprRNHOU+yqZhcWxXKS7ud5rK+7uE/f+Sl96IxYPBQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:18cd:: with SMTP id 196mr408987pfy.54.1598288531623; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.82.114] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g7sm122212pjj.2.2020.08.24.10.02.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CFC79EB5-2938-4994-946A-77BF4936C218" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Message-Id: <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> To: lsr@ietf.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:02:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 17:02:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CFC79EB5-2938-4994-946A-77BF4936C218 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi folks, This updated draft has been published for a few weeks now. We would = like to solicit your opinion on this. In particular, we have changed = the encoding of the Area SID. Do you find this encoding adequate and = appropriate? Thanks, Tony > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt > Date: August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM PDT > To: > Cc: lsr@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Area Proxy for IS-IS > Authors : Tony Li > Sarah Chen > Vivek Ilangovan > Gyan S. Mishra > Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt > Pages : 19 > Date : 2020-08-05 >=20 > Abstract: > Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already > built into them. However, when lower levels are used for transit, > they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to > scale issues. >=20 > To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS > routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit, > yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into level 2. > Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby > enabling greater scale. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --Apple-Mail=_CFC79EB5-2938-4994-946A-77BF4936C218 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

    Hi folks,

    This updated draft has been published = for a few weeks now.  We would like to solicit your opinion on = this.  In particular, we have changed the encoding of the Area SID. =  Do you find this encoding adequate and appropriate?

    Thanks,
    Tony


    Begin = forwarded message:

    From: = internet-drafts@ietf.org
    Subject: = I-D Action: = draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt
    Date: = August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM = PDT
    To: = <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Reply-To: = internet-drafts@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org


    A New Internet-Draft is = available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
    This= draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

    =        Title =           : Area Proxy = for IS-IS
    =        Authors =         : Tony Li
    =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Sarah Chen
    =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Vivek Ilangovan
    =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Gyan S. Mishra
    Filename =        : = draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt
    Pages =           : 19
    = Date =            : = 2020-08-05

    Abstract:
    =   Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction = already
      built into them.  However, when = lower levels are used for transit,
      they must = expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to
    =   scale issues.

      To = avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS
    =   routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide = transit,
      yet only inject an abstraction of = the level 1 topology into level 2.
      Each level = 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby
    =   enabling greater scale.


    The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy= /

    There are also htmlized versions = available at:
    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-= proxy-03

    A diff from the previous version = is available at:
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-pr= oxy-03


    Please note that it = may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
    until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

    Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
    ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


    _______________________________________________
    I-D-Announce mailing list
    I-D-Announce@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
    Internet-Draft directories: = http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
    or = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

    = --Apple-Mail=_CFC79EB5-2938-4994-946A-77BF4936C218-- From nobody Mon Aug 24 19:30:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0321F3A109C; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.948, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HTudUzvaMpYr; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 569F03A1099; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2a.google.com with SMTP id x7so4872212qvi.5; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=HFQR69ere0gveDT5igr2fTiyXBAAR+XLypoiPXmOtug=; b=QsMFQzi0lQa73Y2ekTuGvRE2q8m0yn8PRLrGh63PKQ2+yeF4J3/top5sEAT94B3PtX Isb6lyJuy0GDkHX0P51V5sqoxj3zAma2WcbrQBm4tsfOs305ngtOuRhGZBwJPmpZErE2 ev8Df7cP6/R9/0qDApeCmhv2r5FrMjUsReMTwfar4VKhAoPiuAdncaZxZnJEvU0ad9YY mB6eXHCl1IR0eunck/UuS7b+Txg6x6Dnhzie6/YWRl0zRx+Q9KEuZr6rQegQn6za0GT3 vJY5HRgG8DL/DfRWtXPE/eb3fuIPYvZmeRPjRsCltlUqjkMvjWOvNUkpQeppkH06Q76/ TJ+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=HFQR69ere0gveDT5igr2fTiyXBAAR+XLypoiPXmOtug=; b=UgQ+11QI+0uXVTPqsfi2+cZChkANltI+QsRZTvFvO54GvSQvHmNbD32g/fjHOS5hkk mCWQ1MLM7swG0lcgJYx1lR74gCfRvDTTBsG1/BG/maQt11cQaS+MV2LGtmVeiJsoE6dS GooTlY9ck7UL6Qk0sNhnivEd8/BICkEXQtMlJlcVbQ/f3FrKVCCXeslE5Cbk1CgyRCie mn8wdc46TfF7mG4lOR59iQQ7UAHphQL/yUPa/Ek9gUZpQItMIlBpuLqNKja+gnmsvWHO /NYD1E+/HtIsVh9e9rMDNN5G7ZTVExq97CVw3oq5QcYAfIT0dGBA71Xh1gU3kTFNxutj QnNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530f5vIYwkX68u1JN4Gwze2OrsVWj1PTFcqfVEPeRPu6OH78cd6g PRCZqR82qkw4bayQnBk03ToVbcpj0vw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuCx9gf32vmHEEWSIKZRgjiAlAG1DsOIgTFAuiv3RKIKHhKAIaGYNsNwN08fyROsq26lNtsw== X-Received: by 2002:ad4:560f:: with SMTP id ca15mr7836103qvb.144.1598322645106; Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Ls-MacBook-Pro.local ([174.99.107.252]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g55sm13462533qta.94.2020.08.24.19.30.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Aug 2020 19:30:44 -0700 (PDT) To: LEI LIU , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> From: Yi Yang Message-ID: <14503224-6b55-9523-b172-c3c0454134d1@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2020 22:30:42 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------925401C2801BCBEFF4F6C76C" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 02:30:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------925401C2801BCBEFF4F6C76C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am not aware of any undeclared IPRs for this draft. Yi On 8/21/20 12:31 AM, LEI LIU wrote: > > I’m not aware of any IPR associated with this draft. > > Thanks, > > Best regards, > > > Lei > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: > > Authors, > > The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are > specified here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ > > Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > > response has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF > rules. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > > --------------925401C2801BCBEFF4F6C76C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    I am not aware of any undeclared IPRs for this draft.

    Yi

    On 8/21/20 12:31 AM, LEI LIU wrote:

    I’m not aware of any IPR associated with this draft.

     

    Thanks,

    Best regards, 


    Lei 



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Authors,

     

    The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

     

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/

     

     

    Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz?

     

    If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules 

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

     

    If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

    to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a

    response has been received from each author and contributor.

     

    If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or

    contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee





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scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008250114 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:28:03 -0000 --_004_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_" --_000_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was created by combining draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo= -00. When draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was published as a WG document, it included a requirement for using te-app encodings that did not exist in either draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo= -00. Juniper's currently released implementation of flex-algo uses legacy encodi= ngs, as opposed to te-app encodings. I would like the following text added to draft-lsr-flex-algo in order to record the history of these changes and to = make operators aware of possible inter-op problems that may arise due to the non-backward compatible nature of mandating ASLA encodings. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 11. Advertisement of Link Attributes for Flex-Algorithm " Earlier versions of this draft did not mandate the use of ASLA TLVs for e= ncoding the link attributes. There may be implementations that depend on legacy encodin= gs as defined in RFC 5305, RFC 7810 , RC 3630 and RFC 7471. Implementations that look at onl= y ASLA encodings for flex-algo based on this version of the document will not interoperate w= ith versions that use legacy advertisements. " =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Rgds Shraddha Juniper Business Use Only From: olivier.dugeon@orange.com Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:56 PM To: Peter Psenak ; tony.li@tony.li; Robert Raszuk Cc: Christian Hopps ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.= org; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; lsr@i= etf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo [External Email. Be cautious of content] Peter, Le 20/08/2020 =E0 14:12, Peter Psenak a =E9crit : Hi Olivier, On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com wrote: Hi Peter, Thank for the new version. Le 19/08/2020 =E0 14:00, Peter Psenak a =E9crit : Olivier, [ ... ] So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a reference to a delay value= that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. = It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what it is announc= ed in its network by the different routers. I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid w= hat you ask for is absolutely wrong. We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising the= link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both leg= acy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to addres= s the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is abso= lutely no need to use the legacy advertisement. Doing so would just extend = the problem to the flex-algo application. Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and sec= tion 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the defi= nition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also made= reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to en= code these value. that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are mandatin= g the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link attributes. Here, it is confusing. I don't see how much more clear we can make it. Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE metric and M= in delay. you have to distinguish between two things: a) where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 b) how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app, ospf-te-link-attr-reuse What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and Min = delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) while l= eaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. = RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr= -reuse. no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these metri= cs and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is done for a = reason and I have already explained that. OK. Reading section 11 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me suggest= to make a reference to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead of refere= nce to drafts. In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RFC747= 1 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are going to= advertise it for the link. OK. I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 leaving operator = free about how it collect the values from the neighbour routers: legacy or = new method. please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements for fl= ex-algo - it will not be allowed. This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different Flex = Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? if yes, h= ow can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics advertise in ALSA B= ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo. Regards, Olivier PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the path fo= r a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the Flex-Algorith= m definition (Section 5) MUST be used." thanks, Peter Regards Olivier PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy metric= s and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex alg= o based on legacy metrics. regards, Peter Regards Olivier Le 18/08/2020 =E0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li a =E9crit = : Robert, Thank you, exactly. We just need a clarification of the document. I don't understand why this = is such a big deal. Tony On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > wrote: Les, I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. See RFC 8570 says: Type Description ---------------------------------------------------- 33 Unidirectional Link Delay 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literal= ly (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum= value from ULD type 33 :) If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max Unidi= rectional Link Delay (34) and be done. That's all. Cheers, R. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: Tony - As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why you are confused - nor why you got misdirected to code point 33. RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay This sub-TLV contains two values: "Min Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link delay value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as an integer value. Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link delay value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as an integer value." It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think Peter has been very clear. Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? Les *From:* Lsr > *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org ; Christian Hopps >; Acee Lindem (acee) <= acee@cisco.com >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.a= ll@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo Hi Peter, section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average). The problem is that that does not exactly match "Unidirectional Link Delay" or "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay", leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it's a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min. So type 33 seems like a better match. section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: Type Description Encoding Reference --------------------------------------------------------- 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 And it also says: 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 This does not help. So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below. What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise. My bad, I should have pressed the issue. Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft. I'm sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important clarification. You also have an author's email that is bouncing, so at least one more spin is required. Sorry, Tony _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr -- Orange logo Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -- Orange logo Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -- [Orange logo] Olivier Dugeon Orange Expert, Future Networks Open Source Referent Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 olivier.dugeon@orange.com ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi All,<= /span>

     

    draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was created by combining

    draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and draft-pp= senak-ospf-sr-flex-algo-00. 

    When draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was published as a WG do= cument, it included

    a requirement for using te-app encodings that did no= t exist in either

    draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and draft-pp= senak-ospf-sr-flex-algo-00. 

     

    Juniper's currently released implementation of flex-= algo uses legacy encodings,

    as opposed to te-app encodings.  I would like t= he following text added to

    draft-lsr-flex-algo in order to record the history o= f these changes and to make

    operators aware of possible inter-op problems that m= ay arise due to the

    non-backward compatible nature of mandating ASLA enc= odings.

     

    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

    11.  Advertisement of Link Attributes for Flex-= Algorithm

     

    " Earlier versions of this draft did not mandat= e the use of ASLA TLVs for encoding the

    link attributes. There may be implementations that d= epend on legacy encodings as defined in

    RFC 5305, RFC 7810 , RC 3630 and RFC 7471. Implement= ations that look at only ASLA encodings

    for flex-algo based on this version of the document = will not interoperate with versions

    that use legacy advertisements. "

    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

     

     

    Rgds

    Shraddha=

     

     

    Juniper Business Use Only

    From:= olivier.dugeon@orange.com <olivier.dug= eon@orange.com>
    Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:56 PM
    To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>; tony.li@tony.li; Robert = Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
    Cc: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-a= lgo.all@ietf.org; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@c= isco.com>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

     

    <= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif">[Ex= ternal Email. Be cautious of content]

     

    Peter,<= /o:p>

    Le 20/08/2020 =E0 14:12, Peter Psenak a =E9crit = ;:

    Hi Olivier,

    On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.d= ugeon@orange.com wrote:

    Hi Peter,

    Thank for the new version.

    Le 19/08/2020 =E0 14:00, Peter Psenak a =E9crit :

    Olivier,

    [ ... ]

    So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a ref= erence to a delay value that could be advertise by means of RFC7471, RFC857= 0 and/or TE-App draft. It is then up to the operator to ensure the coherenc= y of what it is announced in its network by the different routers.


    I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, but I'm afraid w= hat you ask for is absolutely wrong.

    We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for advertising the= link attributes. We allow the link attributes to be advertised in both leg= acy and ASLA advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to addres= s the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new application, there is absolutely no need to use the legacy advert= isement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the flex-algo applicatio= n.


    Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for IS-IS) and sec= tion 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 for the defi= nition of Min delay and TE metric which is fine for me. But, they also made= reference to draft isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode these value.


    that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are mandatin= g the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link attributes.

    Here, it is confusing.


    I don't see how much more clear we can make it.

    Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to= encode TE metric and Min delay.


    you have to distinguish between two things:

    a)  where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471=
    b)  how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app,
    ospf-te-link-attr-reuse


    What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE metric and Min = delay definition as well as the encoding (especially for the delay) while l= eaving open the door to how the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. = RFC 8570 & 7471 or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse.


    no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for these metri= cs and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. It is done for a = reason and I have already explained that.

    OK. Reading section 1= 1 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me suggest to make a reference = to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead of reference to drafts.


    In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC 8570 & RF= C7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me.


    because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are going to= advertise it for the link.

    OK.

     

    I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. an= d 5.2 leaving operator free about how it collect the values from the neighb= our routers: legacy or new method.


    please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements for fl= ex-algo - it will not be allowed.

    This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different Fl= ex Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? if yes= , how can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics advertise in ALS= A B ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo.

    Regards,

    Olivier

    PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the= path for a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the Flex-= Algorithm definition (Section 5) MUST be used."


    thanks,
    Peter


    Regards

    Olivier

    PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the legacy metric= s and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar implementation of flex alg= o based on legacy metrics.


    regards,
    Peter


    Regards

    Olivier

    Le 18/08/2020 =E0 19:02, tony.li@tony.li= a =E9crit :


    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a clarification of the document.  I don’t understan= d why this is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net>&g= t; wrote:

    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.

    See RFC 8570 says:

           Type    Description        --------------------------------------= --------------
            33     Unidi= rectional Link Delay

            34     Min/M= ax Unidirectional Link Delay

    That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literal= ly (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum= value from ULD type 33 :)

    If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min= /Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.

    That's all.

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org>> wrote:

        Tony –

        As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, = I am not
        sure why you are confused – nor why you got misdir= ected to code
        point 33.

        RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:

        34          = ; Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

        This sub-TLV contains two values:

        “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the mi= nimum measured link
        delay

              value (in microseconds) o= ver a configurable interval,
        encoded as

              an integer value.

           Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries = the maximum measured
        link delay

              value (in microseconds) o= ver a configurable interval,
        encoded as

              an integer value.” =

        It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to= Min
        Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

        I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specificati= ons, but
        I think Peter has been very clear.

        Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 3= 3??

           Les

        *From:* Lsr <= lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>>
        *On Behalf Of *tony.= li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>
        *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
        *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com
    <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>&g= t;
        *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org <= a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"> <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>; lsr-ad= s@ietf.org
    <mailto:lsr-ads@ietf.org>; Ch= ristian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org
    <mailto:chopps@chopps.org>&g= t;; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com=
    <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    <mailto:draft-i= etf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org>
        *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-fle= x-algo

        Hi Peter,



            section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-ls= r-flex-algo says:


            Min Unidirectional Link Delay as= defined in
            [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

            We explicitly say "Min Unid= irectional Link Delay", so this
            cannot be mixed with other delay= values (max, average).

        The problem is that that does not exactly match “U= nidirectional
        Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link = Delay”, leading to
        the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things o= pen to
        people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so of course= , you always
        want to take the min.  So type 33 seems like a bett= er match.





            section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app= says:

            Type   Description &nb= sp;            =             Enc= oding
                 &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;Reference
            --------------------------------= -------------------------
            34      = ;Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570

        And it also says:

        33      Unidirectional Link Del= ay RFC8570
    <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8570>

        This does not help.



            So, IMHO what we have now is cor= rect and sufficient, but I
            have no issue adding the text yo= u proposed below.

        What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility= , as
        writers of specifications, to be precise and clear. = ; We are not
        there yet.



            BTW, before I posted 09 version = of flex-algo draft, I asked
            if you were fine with just refer= encing ietf-isis-te-app in
            5.1. I thought you were, as you = did not indicate otherwise.

        My bad, I should have pressed the issue.



            Anyway, I consider this as a pur= e editorial issue and
            hopefully not something that wou= ld cause you to object the WG
            LC of the flex-algo draft.

        I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved= , but important
        clarification.

        You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, = so at least one
        more spin is required.

        Sorry,

        Tony

        _______________________________________________
        Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr



    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

    -- 
    Orange logo <http://www.orange.com>

    Olivier Dugeon
    Orange Expert, Future Networks
    Open Source Referent
    Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
    olivier.dugeon@orange.com = <mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com>

    ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

    Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
    pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
    a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
    Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

    This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
    they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
    If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
    As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
    Thank you.

     

    -- 
    Orange logo <http://www.orange.com>

    Olivier Dugeon
    Orange Expert, Future Networks
    Open Source Referent
    Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
    olivier.dugeon@orange.com = <mailto:olivier.dugeon@orange.com>

    ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________

    Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
    pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
    a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
    Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

    This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law;
    they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
    If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments.
    As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified.
    Thank you.

     

    --
    3D"Orange

    &nb= sp;

    Olivier Dugeon
    Orange Expert, Future Networks
    Open Source Referent
    Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ

     

    fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80
    mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85
    olivier.dugeon@orange.com 

    ______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________
     
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been modified, changed or falsified.
    Thank you.
    --_000_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_-- --_004_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: image/png; name="image001.png" Content-Description: image001.png Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.png"; size=219; creation-date="Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:27:36 GMT"; modification-date="Tue, 25 Aug 2020 15:27:36 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoCAYAAACM/rhtAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAACXBI WXMAAA3XAAAN1wFCKJt4AAAAe0lEQVRYw+3YoQ2AMBBG4b+EAVBYfFeBhHkYgxEYgTmKRmFIQJKw QVngQgiiqXhPnvrEnTkXB0VlXKHMAwgQIECAAAECBAgQIECAAAEC/F9pTqtG8n1ayTpL9/4RWHup G9MCr80EsoMA87zic5GmNq3kCObY8QIGCPC9B8bwEkbe325MAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC --_004_CY4PR05MB35765A65104AA46FD755CE73D5570CY4PR05MB3576namp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 25 16:01:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194353A0819 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:01:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O289bUZyqZgw for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D7023A081D for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id l23so46173edv.11 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:01:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=YP69ZmVtcvlHZ8+xyTuRnLjXxZOePRk9/s67XWDhj9s=; b=Z96SEclDL5UqSc2W43cmE3/xknhUkLDMbQP7NNq6JxBSMAZnnzrwt8h7dgHUhD8PYu AiPekak9biULdfAr3OqbaS3+lYNAKXrzDLJw0tsHPCU4eE8aMRwEyfsg9ILkbv7mLX6l DGkHZHfl/zAumRPBArooR41y4HntpX03NoFalqC9XTO94TtOuuGevfFQNOfHh1rZ6K7p peo6ofZGGS10ysj4tag9t/ZmIg+Xogs3MhHm7s5XUcfqLGFfxbrkJ5xCq09NHx+oPjAa yR4CS4XpdQed+HT2tw9KXGQvWvzqVJXIh97BywxUF7fWKsK/xMpWSP88dwHvjh/3TJIt lKaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=YP69ZmVtcvlHZ8+xyTuRnLjXxZOePRk9/s67XWDhj9s=; b=h2S4P95YJIiFRmJS6htH0nxb1x0wc3CVtbX1Crcr1Z4v1B/jclqZ9+IVLXmIqHNfa5 GbegFtJctZ5YDI8MeXuTMezqLhXbNZfdTqBQutsmCpM8twAcxVKxtZUOECr3IgkyejcP 5M2Rn68epynoLHDbTA+aPae7PaKK02r1TZhLJkuJ5qm37FyCZZuBv9zYmo86Ua2wktz8 AwkujLwTnL0gA9HrgxwnM9yjAHXAGIKPqFCySzu/epUTWUFo+mCJeBVCVC2V5k3Kl5qy zqmSlQxvUz3Xv0YWCgCGWxJdsiVne+uP8WNMk/g0FuJakPeiKTNVg+D9vWRH1KzoBq7J 2LfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530oGhV4JSyi88W6Qp0cc1ZJPjGfRmEKadaLmg/dKH4hh3CA8I43 qKUPuDkiVZe7rJ160lBilj0Wl1ZDjsIH4Pgf4YlGAud1nPRaaA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwK1owN5bOlt0z7aOj6bjuuGsbxqyj8NNecSV8uXEoGTE2O/vvANrVXSCToJA3krlKOTIWe+81qZhcF6TEegtM= X-Received: by 2002:a50:bf01:: with SMTP id f1mr12756834edk.369.1598396482326; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:01:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 01:01:11 +0200 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008a24ec05adbbaeba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 23:01:26 -0000 --0000000000008a24ec05adbbaeba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tony & WG, The changes which went into sections 4.3.2 & 4.4.13 do address my suggestions made earlier to the list. So I do support the current version. With the option of having a configurable area prefix this delivers quite a powerful extension. Also the current text says: "Other uses of the Area SID are outside the scope of this document. " Maybe we could state instead: Other uses of the Area SID and area prefix are outside the scope of this document. Many thx, R. On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:02 PM wrote: > > Hi folks, > > This updated draft has been published for a few weeks now. We would like > to solicit your opinion on this. In particular, we have changed the > encoding of the Area SID. Do you find this encoding adequate and > appropriate? > > Thanks, > Tony > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org > *Subject: **I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt* > *Date: *August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM PDT > *To: * > *Cc: *lsr@ietf.org > *Reply-To: *internet-drafts@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. > > Title : Area Proxy for IS-IS > Authors : Tony Li > Sarah Chen > Vivek Ilangovan > Gyan S. Mishra > Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt > Pages : 19 > Date : 2020-08-05 > > Abstract: > Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already > built into them. However, when lower levels are used for transit, > they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to > scale issues. > > To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS > routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit, > yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into level 2. > Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby > enabling greater scale. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --0000000000008a24ec05adbbaeba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Tony & WG,

    The = changes which went into sections 4.3.2 & 4.4.13 do address my suggestio= ns made earlier to the list. So I do support the current version.=C2=A0

    With the option of having a configurable area prefix = this delivers quite a powerful extension.=C2=A0

    Al= so the current text says:=C2=A0

    "Other uses of the Area SID are outside the scope of this document.=C2=A0"=C2=A0

    Maybe we could state instead:

    Other uses of the Area SID and area prefix are outside the scope of th= is document.=C2=A0=C2=A0

    Many thx,
    R.


    On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:02 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

    Hi folks,

    This updated draft ha= s been published for a few weeks now.=C2=A0 We would like to solicit your o= pinion on this.=C2=A0 In particular, we have changed the encoding of the Ar= ea SID.=C2=A0 Do you find this encoding adequate and appropriate?

    Thanks,
    Tony


    Begin forwarded message:

    Subject: = I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt
    Date: August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM PDT
    <= div style=3D"margin:0px">To: <= /span><i-d-announce@ietf.org>
    Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
    =


    A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
    This draft is a work item of the Link State= Routing WG of the IETF.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Title =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Area Pr= oxy for IS-IS
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Authors =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Tony Li
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Sarah Chen
    =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Viv= ek Ilangovan
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Gyan S. Mishra
    <= /span>Filename =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: draft-ietf-lsr-i= sis-area-proxy-03.txt
    Pages= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 19
    Date =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 2020-08-05

    Abstract:
    =C2= =A0=C2=A0Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already=
    =C2=A0=C2=A0built into them.=C2=A0 However, when lower levels are used= for transit,
    =C2=A0=C2=A0they must expose their internal topologies to= each other, leading to
    =C2=A0=C2=A0scale issues.

    =C2=A0=C2=A0T= o avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS
    =C2=A0=C2= =A0routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit,
    = =C2=A0=C2=A0yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into lev= el 2.
    =C2=A0=C2=A0Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 = node, thereby
    =C2=A0=C2=A0enabling greater scale.


    The IETF d= atatracker status page for this draft is:
    https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/

    There are= also htmlized versions available at:
    https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03=

    A diff from the previous version is available at:
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-isis-area= -proxy-03


    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes f= rom the time of submission
    until the htmlized version and diff are avail= able at tools.ietf.org<= /a>.

    Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
    ftp://ftp.iet= f.org/internet-drafts/


    _____________________________________= __________
    I-D-Announce mailing list
    I-D-Announce@ietf.org
    https://www.i= etf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
    Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf= .org/shadow.html
    or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

    ______________________________= _________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
    --0000000000008a24ec05adbbaeba-- From nobody Tue Aug 25 16:45:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019FF3A0895 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:45:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LO6Ens8hKQso for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A40153A0866 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id v2so269162ilq.4 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:45:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5NkrpNw+kscgLwhK/rpqqSTZdtHxvwARfPwSlweYb6A=; b=Yp+nllrYgJD8qV9RmHjwLhbH3m2vb1TAfteP2RGQT6t9MTUeI4b1uQcRIEarM+OuEe AcPbifuLNDZYRVcJ3/hwf5ux7jze23rtu8H1udWwvNx0AwCMJ4baZsngWadZAJRyW10t snLJXvwjKQK3j2M8M4I/ifBgRi79H0APdUd8SJzOz6mLiQzX1rduZf8KlyEHYGlGqCWR sG1mA5842MBHKMkYk5GSFOxPr5emZsZom7TywGRW4zKuil/hvfNHT3/kGOyD0u1i+h6w /CuFpjEkt7PmC6x9Cw2vOfMPhABPEHv7TRmzHcvYKqDEZkpM3+VjaXxfK5MHhe0tb+lA TDgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5NkrpNw+kscgLwhK/rpqqSTZdtHxvwARfPwSlweYb6A=; b=d/qx4b+A7k1XiXO0ZXTYrRG2w77hVdZoi93szzRHz4C7nHgshEuOG0mT8qb8wY01kD B1JOVNSZDtwAHmTZuII8V/FAMsHZL8RkXEpXdMmji+er4MWAAT4BjFqif+5k7xSXsTiz 4T2pyvW5Aw0066k2HQrQ7KyaUAN6X+fvdpIl6850ztgXFEmcs4PBWsiuJkmQUYKCDvLR vZ+C5ANEAWnv7jMTwfeJA8bru0EZndnkK7PtcV64tzvhqt3JPw7JyiFuKH1tNB1/SART IbHOvFX1g2M39c/N5IDDH4vGJgwPWsklv3CrliCA6ALKYnOCl3C7hU/7KdqIpCuXS6PN 6Ccw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+yxDUOrghdZSpn5bzrX8fB48AYwwEcjZ3Y7S1mdw6gAC8T6zN /+IIdKl50Wqu+qRFHulQgbMLWdQwF3PK9JN+8UL4W3lnjQM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuAxDsqN9vBRim0ifJ7DW0vhX7nzpurBBdL3q8hraOT2HnHTgu6yZCXBFM1Gx9aSAo3/v55q4RAWSNcCm/F1M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1246:: with SMTP id j6mr11060124ilq.269.1598399129702; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:45:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Xufeng Liu Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 19:45:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000055d66d05adbc4cf5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 23:45:32 -0000 --00000000000055d66d05adbc4cf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support WG adoption. Thanks, - Xufeng On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --00000000000055d66d05adbc4cf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support WG adoption.
    Thanks,
    - Xufeng

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <= ;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.iet= f.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
    --00000000000055d66d05adbc4cf5-- From nobody Tue Aug 25 16:55:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BA73A08CC for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l-VqDBIyivQk for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe36.google.com (mail-vs1-xe36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C25AB3A0B95 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe36.google.com with SMTP id p186so18976vsa.10 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Uw12v20vFgYV5aE3LULO1qJm0wPlYPoC2JJbbhT8xOo=; b=K488lHwcC8HOFXboSVao1/YAJOXMb4O2cqX3G2DnPKjNeB06js9D//iRq4Dcav7mt2 Z59bDdW7KjIkquuFlpRQJzV7emVZ/jvA5r5HVJcsQacP03pwMAt+ROMuu76+1rEuevvj 0Jx0/IUeq7m9wuIulRCRt22cGK3EZo2K8cVZIcCfFzv4B7MRgzc8Zizq/URVsCE9D6Yj 5De5pYZZcU4/PirmSYs6zMDulqpY0LfX6YfmpoJeT06+YJ0qpWI8pLTTJnk9WPKCNFnd 9m9YFULitHBDGj7VImm1xR/cm4QLjCQ1KghzvTfPscUrTn9h4PSPyG6CYT6Di3i16fPu a8Og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Uw12v20vFgYV5aE3LULO1qJm0wPlYPoC2JJbbhT8xOo=; b=PhEz0kPD+Z+fUjXHWPztrwAgayTQUd/I51X1jDgpdO+IacR1725/miZ/USAdIuSXvK VvI3/tDom4jjoYfoAypMVFzAPqtWH/GyUip5km364ghJHebhi8HheW6IHkIcYmnZu+gh D446nuDrWDhJI05v1Xkcqktnx54Sj821z3HPB8A2THC/BLY3hP1dZilvEzWZoPmhagp+ o5sIbCIKYtg5f61e1adam2p/qThzPMFy42I/C7PyE7lUB9kS8r1WFI3Y0K5EvjX0MZVC Y/lEABuzd7wi4UolauOA+paTOCjT0HDb0WkWPOcGUTzcV71gQJXFEBwgFvHAfTuGwBtQ osAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KaDOwhlO+Vp/ny0LDDwVo5PdWe+Mp3VdKBItanBEjfqA/JU8W Um+jrCEsMxHtdwpB6ZO5ypc5enGKxQPnXN7BMVWqHorc X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwhpOniwn+dnPfEnWajS3VO+mw55JopOOT2FVdBZ+1DVi/0tSxyf8hBZ5VFOL7ootOuU/avkn/mgR8TrpPVrUE= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f287:: with SMTP id m7mr7127559vsk.66.1598399719195; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Uma Chunduri Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 16:55:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000078c9b505adbc6f7e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 23:55:30 -0000 --00000000000078c9b505adbc6f7e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support. -- Uma C. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --00000000000078c9b505adbc6f7e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Support.

    --
    Uma C.

    On Tu= e, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:17 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Based on the discussi= ons in the last meeting and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-i= sis-ttz-11, the chairs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with dra= ft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    These differences inc= lude abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth tr= ansition to/from zone abstraction.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    We are now starting a= n LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your= support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8CA13A0B7D for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2020 18:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7D35ACAE010D80B7760E for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 02:32:37 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggema719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.83) by lhreml730-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 02:32:36 +0100 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.211) by dggema719-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.83) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:32:34 +0800 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) by dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 09:32:34 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6lJposQ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 01:32:33 +0000 Message-ID: <38c146173e3042e1ac0b23d608f2d370@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.202.126] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_38c146173e3042e1ac0b23d608f2d370huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 01:32:42 -0000 --_000_38c146173e3042e1ac0b23d608f2d370huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony - You have chosen to assign a prefix as the "Area Destination". This is fine = with me. But having done that, forwarding should be based on the existing m= echanisms for advertising a prefix and the associated prefix SID. By doing that you avoid a number of problems: * Duplicate SID advertisements for the same prefix and the possibility = of inconsistency * Differing forwarding behavior for routers (IERs) who understand the A= rea Proxy TLV and those routers which don't (everyone else) You can still include a sub-TLV in the Area Proxy TLV to identify the Area = Prefix, but there is no need to also advertise the SID there. This makes th= e "Area Prefix" advertisement functionally equivalent to the "Router-ID" ad= vertisement. It's a convenient way to identify the prefix associated with t= he area, but it does not eliminate the need to also advertise prefix reacha= bility information for that prefix in order to enable forwarding. I have also suggested that an additional bit could be assigned in the Prefi= x-Attributes sub-TLV (RFC 7794) to mark a prefix as an Area Prefix if you w= ish. But advertising a prefix-SID in two different places is a bad idea. .... In an unrelated matter, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-are= a-proxy-03#section-2 states: "An Inside Edge Router may be elected the DIS for a Boundary LAN. In this case using the Area Proxy System Id as the basis for the LAN pseudonode identifier could create a collision, so the Insider Edge Router SHOULD compose the pseudonode identifier using its native system identifier." I understand the potential collision that could arise if the Area Proxy Sys= tem-Id were to be used in the pseudonode-id. However, what you propose is i= ncompatible with a strict interpretation of ISO 10589 Section 8.4.5: "If this system, as a result of the Designated Intermediate System election= process, considers itself to be designated Intermediate System, the LAN ID= field shall be set to the concatenation of this system's own system ID and= the locally assigned one octet Local Circuit ID." This raises the possibility that some of the non-DIS neighbors might not ho= nor the pseudo-node ID since it does not match the system-id associated wit= h their adjacency to the pseudo-node. At a minimum this possibility should be mentioned in the text. One way to mitigate this is to have the IERs advertise a LAN Priority of 0 = in their IIHs so as to avoid this case. Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 10:02 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt Hi folks, This updated draft has been published for a few weeks now. We would like t= o solicit your opinion on this. In particular, we have changed the encodin= g of the Area SID. Do you find this encoding adequate and appropriate? Thanks, Tony Begin forwarded message: From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt Date: August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM PDT To: > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org, lsr@ie= tf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Area Proxy for IS-IS Authors : Tony Li Sarah Chen Vivek Ilangovan Gyan S. Mishra Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2020-08-05 Abstract: Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already built into them. However, when lower levels are used for transit, they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to scale issues. To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit, yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into level 2. Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby enabling greater scale. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --_000_BY5PR11MB4337679B3A5C99836E982202C1540BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Tony –

     

    You have chosen to assign a prefix as the “Are= a Destination”. This is fine with me. But having done that, forwardin= g should be based on the existing mechanisms for advertising a prefix and t= he associated prefix SID.

    By doing that you avoid a number of problems:

     

    • Duplicate SID advertisements for the same prefix and the possibility = of inconsistency
    • Differing forwarding behavior for rou= ters (IERs) who understand the Area Proxy TLV and those routers which don&#= 8217;t (everyone else)

     

     

    You can still include a sub-TLV in the Area Proxy TL= V to identify the Area Prefix, but there is no need to also advertise the S= ID there. This makes the “Area Prefix” advertisement functional= ly equivalent to the “Router-ID” advertisement. It’s a convenient way to identify the prefix associated with the are= a, but it does not eliminate the need to also advertise prefix reachability= information for that prefix in order to enable forwarding.

     

    I have also suggested that an additional bit could b= e assigned in the Prefix-Attributes sub-TLV (RFC 7794) to mark a prefix as = an Area Prefix if you wish.

     

    But advertising a prefix-SID in two different places= is a bad idea.

     

    ….

     

    In an unrelated matter, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03#section-2= states:

     

    “An Inside Edge = Router may be elected the DIS for a Boundary

       LAN. = ; In this case using the Area Proxy System Id as the basis for

       the LAN p= seudonode identifier could create a collision, so the

       Insider E= dge Router SHOULD compose the pseudonode identifier using

       its nativ= e system identifier.”

     

    I understand the potential collision that could aris= e if the Area Proxy System-Id were to be used in the pseudonode-id. However= , what you propose is incompatible with a strict interpretation of ISO 1058= 9 Section 8.4.5:

     

    “If this system,= as a result of the Designated Intermediate System election process, consid= ers itself to be designated Intermediate System, the LAN ID field shall be = set to the concatenation of this system’s own system ID and the locally assigned one octet Local Circuit ID.”<= o:p>

     

    This raises the possibility that some of the non-DIS= neighbors might not honor the pseudo-node ID since it does not match the s= ystem-id associated with their adjacency to the pseudo-node.

    At a minimum this possibility should be mentioned in= the text.

     

    One way to mitigate this is to have the IERs adverti= se a LAN Priority of 0 in their IIHs so as to avoid this case.

     

       Les

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li
    Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 10:02 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.tx= t

     

     

    Hi folks,

     

    This updated draft has been published for a few week= s now.  We would like to solicit your opinion on this.  In partic= ular, we have changed the encoding of the Area SID.  Do you find this = encoding adequate and appropriate?

     

    Thanks,

    Tony

     



    Begin forwarded message:

     

    Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt=

    Date: August 5, 2020 at 1:17:39 PM PDT

     


    A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
    This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

           Title     &nb= sp;     : Area Proxy for IS-IS
           Authors     &= nbsp;   : Tony Li
                &nb= sp;            = Sarah Chen
                &nb= sp;            = Vivek Ilangovan
                &nb= sp;            = Gyan S. Mishra
           &n= bsp;     Filename      =   : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt
           &n= bsp;     Pages      &nb= sp;    : 19
           &n= bsp;     Date      &nbs= p;     : 2020-08-05

    Abstract:
      Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction alre= ady
      built into them.  However, when lower levels are used for = transit,
      they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leadi= ng to
      scale issues.

      To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS<= br>   routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide tran= sit,
      yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into lev= el 2.
      Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, ther= eby
      enabling greater scale.


    The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/

    There are also htmlized versions available at:
    h= ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-pro= xy-03

    A diff from the previous version is available at:
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-0= 3


    Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
    until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

    Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
    ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet= -drafts/


    _______________________________________________
    I-D-Announce mailing list
    I-D-Announce@ietf.org
    https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
    Internet-Draft directories: htt= p://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
    or ftp://ftp.ietf.org= /ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

     

    --_000_BY5PR11MB4337679B3A5C99836E982202C1540BY5PR11MB4337namp_-- From nobody Wed Aug 26 15:52:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454FC3A09F7 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:52:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.994 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.994 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, SPOOFED_URL=0.001, SPOOFED_URL_HOST=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=verizon.com header.b=PPpZ49xV; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=verizon-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b=UFu11fWf Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YZs_11im6Fvt for ; 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Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMPsjDy+RttCb+zDyMY9xBPYsBFWgI8Ux6XVCuLEBa43d8MK44URT+SlmJ2PJH7sV/FJR8ww2WNZcqcx1AwnM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:564:: with SMTP id p4mr277352qkp.406.1598482322179; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 15:52:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Toy, Mehmet" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:51:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe5bd705adcfaa0a" X-mailroute: internal X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=out_spam_notspam policy=out_spam score=0 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=1 mlxlogscore=641 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008260175 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 22:52:07 -0000 --000000000000fe5bd705adcfaa0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz. Thanks Mehmet --------------------------------------------------- *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:24 AM *To:* draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org *Subject:* LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt Authors, The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Acee --000000000000fe5bd705adcfaa0a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    =C2=A0 I am not=C2=A0 aware of any oth= er IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz.
    Thanks
    =
    Mehmet


    ----------------------------------= -----------------
    From:=C2=A0Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
    Sent:= =C2=A0Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:24 AM
    To:=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz@i= etf.org=C2=A0<draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org>
    Cc:=C2=A0lsr@ietf.org=C2=A0<lsr@ietf.org>
    Subj= ect:=C2=A0LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone&quo= t; - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt
    =C2=A0

    Authors,

    =C2=A0

    The IETF IPRs declarations s= ubmitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

    =C2=A0

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/= ipr/4029/

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Are you awar= e of any other IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz?

    =C2=A0

    If so, has= this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0

    =

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more deta= ils).

    =C2=A0

    If you are listed as a document author or contributor please resp= ond

    to this email regardless of whether= or not you are aware of any

    relevant I= PR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document will not advance to the next stage = until a

    response has been received from= each author and contributor.

    =C2=A0

    If you are on the LSR WG email list but a= re not listed as an author or

    contribut= or, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance= with IETF rules.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Acee

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Are you sure you have the right document? The word =E2=80=9CDestination=E2= =80=9D does not appear anywhere within = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 = > This is fine with me. But having done that, forwarding should be based = on the existing mechanisms for advertising a prefix and the associated = prefix SID. Which is exactly what we=E2=80=99re doing: we=E2=80=99re advertising a = prefix SID in the Proxy LSP. If you=E2=80=99re referring to the Area SID advertisement, then there is = no existing mechanism for advertising that today, that=E2=80=99s why = we=E2=80=99re having to create an additional subTLV. There is no other mechanism whereby system A can advertise a prefix SID = to a number of other systems and have them install receive/POP = forwarding entries. > By doing that you avoid a number of problems: > =20 > Duplicate SID advertisements for the same prefix and the possibility = of inconsistency > Differing forwarding behavior for routers (IERs) who understand the = Area Proxy TLV and those routers which don=E2=80=99t (everyone else) > =20 > You can still include a sub-TLV in the Area Proxy TLV to identify the = Area Prefix, but there is no need to also advertise the SID there. This = makes the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D advertisement functionally = equivalent to the =E2=80=9CRouter-ID=E2=80=9D advertisement. It=E2=80=99s = a convenient way to identify the prefix associated with the area, but it = does not eliminate the need to also advertise prefix reachability = information for that prefix in order to enable forwarding. You seem to be asking that the Area Leader also advertise a Prefix SID = in its own LSP, as well as a prefix in the Area Proxy TLV. This is not = just duplication of advertisement, it=E2=80=99s duplication plus a = prefix. By your own criteria, this suggestion is worse than what = we=E2=80=99ve proposed. All Inside Nodes need to understand the Area Proxy TLV and respond = accordingly. Only the Inside Edge Nodes need to install forwarding = state for the Area SID. Advertising a separate Prefix SID to the Inside = Nodes forces them to create additional forwarding state that may not be = desired by the network administrator.=20 > I have also suggested that an additional bit could be assigned in the = Prefix-Attributes sub-TLV (RFC 7794) to mark a prefix as an Area Prefix = if you wish. Thank you, but no thanks. As you=E2=80=99ve seen, a large driver for = doing it this way is backward compatibility. Adding a bit would not be = helpful in that regard. =20 > But advertising a prefix-SID in two different places is a bad idea. Advertising it in 2.5 places is worse. > In an unrelated matter, = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03#section-2 = = states: > =20 > =E2=80=9CAn Inside Edge Router may be elected the DIS for a Boundary > LAN. In this case using the Area Proxy System Id as the basis for > the LAN pseudonode identifier could create a collision, so the > Insider Edge Router SHOULD compose the pseudonode identifier using > its native system identifier.=E2=80=9D > =20 > I understand the potential collision that could arise if the Area = Proxy System-Id were to be used in the pseudonode-id. However, what you = propose is incompatible with a strict interpretation of ISO 10589 = Section 8.4.5: > =20 > =E2=80=9CIf this system, as a result of the Designated Intermediate = System election process, considers itself to be designated Intermediate = System, the LAN ID field shall be set to the concatenation of this = system=E2=80=99s own system ID and the locally assigned one octet Local = Circuit ID.=E2=80=9D > =20 > This raises the possibility that some of the non-DIS neighbors might = not honor the pseudo-node ID since it does not match the system-id = associated with their adjacency to the pseudo-node. > At a minimum this possibility should be mentioned in the text. This is fair and I will add a mention. I should also point out that we = have tested this against other implementations and not found a problem. =20 > One way to mitigate this is to have the IERs advertise a LAN Priority = of 0 in their IIHs so as to avoid this case. True, or avoiding edge LANs entirely. As you=E2=80=99ve previously = remarked elsewhere, true multi-access LANs are on the decline. Tony --Apple-Mail=_6BBE0304-D4B4-490D-AEED-E8AAEE393074 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Hi Les,


    You have chosen to assign = a prefix as the =E2=80=9CArea Destination=E2=80=9D. =


    Are you sure you have the right document? =  The word =E2=80=9CDestination=E2=80=9D does not appear anywhere = within https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03


    This is fine with me. But = having done that, forwarding should be based on the existing mechanisms = for advertising a prefix and the associated prefix = SID.


    Which is exactly what we=E2=80=99re doing: we=E2=80=99= re advertising a prefix SID in the Proxy LSP.


    If you=E2=80=99re = referring to the Area SID advertisement, then there is no existing = mechanism for advertising that today, that=E2=80=99s why we=E2=80=99re = having to create an additional subTLV.
    There is no other = mechanism whereby system A can advertise a prefix SID to a number of = other systems and have them install receive/POP forwarding = entries.


    By doing = that you avoid a number of problems:
     
    • Duplicate = SID advertisements for the same prefix and the possibility of = inconsistency
    • Differing forwarding behavior for routers (IERs) = who understand the Area Proxy TLV and those routers which don=E2=80=99t = (everyone else)
     
    You can = still include a sub-TLV in the Area Proxy TLV to identify the Area = Prefix, but there is no need to also advertise the SID there. This makes = the =E2=80=9CArea Prefix=E2=80=9D advertisement functionally equivalent = to the =E2=80=9CRouter-ID=E2=80=9D advertisement. It=E2=80=99s a = convenient way to identify the prefix associated with the area, but it = does not eliminate the need to also advertise prefix reachability = information for that prefix in order to enable = forwarding.


    You seem to be asking that the Area Leader also = advertise a Prefix SID in its own LSP, as well as a prefix in the Area = Proxy TLV.  This is not just duplication of advertisement, it=E2=80=99= s duplication plus a prefix.  By your own criteria, this suggestion = is worse than what we=E2=80=99ve proposed.

    All Inside Nodes need to understand the Area Proxy = TLV and respond accordingly.  Only the Inside Edge Nodes need to = install forwarding state for the Area SID.  Advertising a separate = Prefix SID to the Inside Nodes forces them to create additional = forwarding state that may not be desired by the network = administrator. 


    I have = also suggested that an additional bit could be assigned in the = Prefix-Attributes sub-TLV (RFC 7794) to mark a prefix as an Area Prefix = if you wish.


    Thank you, but no thanks. As you=E2=80=99ve seen, a = large driver for doing it this way is backward compatibility. Adding a = bit would not be helpful in that regard.



    In an unrelated = matter, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03#secti= on-2 states:
     
    =E2=80=9CAn Inside Edge Router may be elected the DIS for a = Boundary
       LAN.  In this case using the = Area Proxy System Id as the basis for
       the LAN = pseudonode identifier could create a collision, so the
       Insider Edge Router SHOULD compose the = pseudonode identifier using
       its native = system identifier.=E2=80=9D
     
    I understand the potential collision = that could arise if the Area Proxy System-Id were to be used in the = pseudonode-id. However, what you propose is incompatible with a strict = interpretation of ISO 10589 Section 8.4.5:
     
    =E2=80=9CIf this system, = as a result of the Designated Intermediate System election process, = considers itself to be designated Intermediate System, the LAN ID field = shall be set to the concatenation of this system=E2=80=99s own system ID = and the locally assigned one octet Local Circuit ID.=E2=80=9D
     
    This = raises the possibility that some of the non-DIS neighbors might not = honor the pseudo-node ID since it does not match the system-id = associated with their adjacency to the pseudo-node.
    At a = minimum this possibility should be mentioned in the = text.


    This is fair and I will add a mention.  I = should also point out that we have tested this against other = implementations and not found a problem.

     
    One way = to mitigate this is to have the IERs advertise a LAN Priority of 0 in = their IIHs so as to avoid this case.


    True, or avoiding edge = LANs entirely.  As you=E2=80=99ve previously remarked elsewhere, = true multi-access LANs are on the decline.

    Tony



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15.20.3305.031; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 00:16:49 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHWe/0FCwnzlVRuSU+4CLy77/UAXKlLC2Jg Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 00:16:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: tony.li; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;tony.li; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [12.156.66.3] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4643ba4d-7fd1-4e82-7ab0-08d84a1e7ddf x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB3573: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D12EEBDC-B90B-4FCB-9A1F-984BD114890F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:40:16 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 00:40:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D12EEBDC-B90B-4FCB-9A1F-984BD114890F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, > As per the draft: > =20 > Area Proxy TLV is advertised by IERs in their L2 LSP.=20 > Area Proxy TLV is NOT advertised in the Proxy LSP. > So how do the OERs become aware of the=20 > =20 > =E2=80=9Cprefix and SID that represents the entirety of the Inside = Area to the Outside Area=E2=80=9D > =20 > ??? > =20 > I assume that they learn this because the Proxy LSP (at least) = contains a Prefix Reachability TLV with the same prefix/SID that was = advertised in the Area Proxy TLV. > Is this correct? If not, please correct me. That=E2=80=99s correct. If this isn=E2=80=99t crystal clear from the = draft, please work with me to get it clarified to your satisfaction. > Also explain why it is necessary for something other than a prefix = reachability advertisement to cause an entry to be created in forwarding = for a prefix =E2=80=93 and ONLY when received in an L2 LSP? > This is unprecedented. It is unprecedented because there we are proposing something = unprecedented. I repeat: "There is no other mechanism whereby system A = can advertise a prefix SID to a number of other systems and have them = install receive/POP forwarding entries.=E2=80=9D It is NOT creating forwarding TO a prefix. It=E2=80=99s reception. > If I am right, you then have multiple TLVs which advertise duplicate = advertisements =E2=80=93 even if not in the same LSP - which exposes you = to the problems I mentioned. > My goal is to have one =E2=80=93 and only one =E2=80=93 advertisement = which creates forwarding state. Well, I=E2=80=99m sorry, but your goal is unachievable. The Proxy LSP = is only relevant outside of the area. The Inner Node LSPs aren=E2=80=99t = circulated outside of the area. > My second goal is not to invent a new SID type/advertisement when the = object associated with it (a prefix) already has a defined SID type. Which is why we=E2=80=99re using the Prefix SID. =20 > What I object to =E2=80=93 and am concerned about =E2=80=93 is that = you seem to invent your version of SR for Area Proxy even when you use = the same object (a prefix) that SR already supports. Again, SR does not support the semantics that we require.=20 > As you know, I was prepared to support a new type of SID when you = actually were defining a new object type. The fact that you decided NOT = to invent a new object type is fine with me =E2=80=93 but please do not = claim that you need a new SID type when you don=E2=80=99t. I=E2=80=99m sorry that you still don=E2=80=99t understand. We do need = something different. Tony --Apple-Mail=_D12EEBDC-B90B-4FCB-9A1F-984BD114890F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Les,

    As per the draft:
     
    Area = Proxy TLV is advertised by IERs in their L2 LSP. 
    Area = Proxy TLV is NOT advertised in the Proxy LSP.
    So how do = the OERs become aware of the 
     
    =E2=80=9Cpr= efix and  SID that represents the entirety of the Inside Area to = the Outside  Area=E2=80=9D
     
    ???
     
    I assume = that they learn this because the Proxy LSP (at least) contains a Prefix = Reachability TLV with the same prefix/SID that was advertised in the = Area Proxy TLV.
    Is this correct? If not, please correct me. =


    That=E2=80=99s correct.  If this isn=E2=80=99t = crystal clear from the draft, please work with me to get it clarified to = your satisfaction.


    Also = explain why it is necessary for something other than a prefix = reachability advertisement to cause an entry to be created in forwarding = for a prefix =E2=80=93 and ONLY when received in an L2 LSP?
    This is = unprecedented.



    It is unprecedented because there we are proposing = something unprecedented.  I repeat: "There is no other = mechanism whereby system A can advertise a prefix SID to a number of = other systems and have them install receive/POP forwarding = entries.=E2=80=9D

    It = is NOT creating forwarding TO a prefix.  It=E2=80=99s = reception.


    If I am = right, you then have  multiple TLVs which advertise duplicate = advertisements =E2=80=93 even if not in the same LSP - which exposes you = to the problems I mentioned.
    My goal is to have one =E2=80=93 and = only one =E2=80=93 advertisement which creates forwarding = state.


    Well, I=E2=80=99m sorry, but your goal is = unachievable.  The Proxy LSP is only relevant outside of the area. =  The Inner Node LSPs aren=E2=80=99t circulated outside of the = area.


    My second = goal is not to invent a new SID type/advertisement when the object = associated with it (a prefix) already has a defined SID = type.


    Which is why we=E2=80=99re using the Prefix = SID.

     
    What I object to =E2=80=93 and am = concerned about =E2=80=93 is that you seem to invent your version of SR = for Area Proxy even when you use the same object (a prefix) that SR = already supports.


    Again, SR does not = support the semantics that we require. 


    As you = know, I was prepared to support a new type of SID when you actually were = defining a new object type. The fact that you decided NOT to invent a = new object type is fine with me =E2=80=93 but please do not claim that = you need a new SID type when you don=E2=80=99t.


    I=E2=80=99m sorry that you still don=E2=80=99t = understand.  We do need something different.

    Tony


    = --Apple-Mail=_D12EEBDC-B90B-4FCB-9A1F-984BD114890F-- From nobody Wed Aug 26 18:49:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6914C3A0C27 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:49:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.747 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.747 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UXaP21lUI7QP for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:49:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF74D3A0AB2 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id n129so4580981qkd.6 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:49:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FKwxNQOJ2hGUNQDJziUYMmrjUxu03m/brqFqMFw3b4Q=; b=fGl9etL5Wm2rNQMDkwuYge8jRaeDYdPpn2p0SGMslbbSxyRnV3KPLB4Z9YGF4hXWwm v6iXGMHgpxSYs3p1RQTcIm9oXPMbTQpe4NytbdI01GwevAoPz/OJey43VaGbjauv6yyy bIrn7ZKmqsPTvP1Mtg4lQqG4MYIzsNPHJtsCrPxviOx9JpMswNaXuzQsSUChXdk81KNb 26jN3cBzuIvJjsQr3JV+EzN2MY4JtGcMLgKD6/6XphBY67zXBHGaWHosfFJh7MbdjgeL zcNkABHXdM6qdipS3sJVYR1T+sJ5XhvSNIcaWclLJ7W/QZyPZ5Yx551erxqfWAFHBI0Z 6nuQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=FKwxNQOJ2hGUNQDJziUYMmrjUxu03m/brqFqMFw3b4Q=; b=lsAkqKFarkKKRy5rmDy+sGQWkzZIrmsfDrQppH3ptzauyylyzuhsSJ0fhKrj2Fvc32 TGCn/H6VgOco3J2Sb3Az9YHRYJy5VdHo4+53U8i7foT3MYY/WAuYXZ+Ij+FU9bMg/rEO 5q1Wftt8sugKofkl1P0/x2KidphEUYIYrRM1evBwpjBKJkbktwsBEL1R3w8js+imMK5v 1u11raTm9I+IVAaLYQKK5lxfAenKvjN8hXGl0zIF4bnLI9x19EBY3llTrFT3Mf4jF+2l NDP7NFRa8kxVDnv0KWFyUDb2dJE7PSr9wM4hV4k/mDzPuRFwxb2dww2q3pDG7Tmh+RJG 9mzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531aQ+E85VwXXsoztagpcuFPASDwXxynQE6W279+/Mx7pqZnUk6Q 9shXrjYD+lRofVrrq0l+NlcIzVqqJqLfXNkiULmkDLuT+twv+A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwHBOcsDAhYv8jOwx0/SSOKY7eeK/nPC1yvpVD4V5P8QlBFZonQvUFwjWrEUTSw0pHJQ3YqUbYtbeiuuuImsoU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1525:: with SMTP id n5mr16590729qkk.126.1598492947637; Wed, 26 Aug 2020 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ning So Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:48:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000051eafc05add224a3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Remind Reply: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 01:49:10 -0000 --00000000000051eafc05add224a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Co-Author, I support working group adoption of this draft as experimental. Ning So ------------------------------ > *From:* Lsr on behalf of Anil Kumar < > anil.ietf@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2020 2:10 PM > *To:* Acee Lindem (acee) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent > Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt > > Hi All, > > As Co-Author, I support working group adoption of this draft as > experimental. > > With Regards > Anil S N > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:47 PM Acee Lindem (acee) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough > differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community t= o > consider advancing it independently on the experimental track. > > > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS > extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection to > adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > --=20 Ning So 972-955-0914 --00000000000051eafc05add224a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Please point me to = anycast semantics that will ONLY be selected by = IERs. 

    Tony


    =C2=A0As Co-Author, I support working gro= up=C2=A0adoption=C2=A0of this=C2=A0draft=C2=A0as experimental.=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>

    Ning So

    Fro= m: Lsr <ls= r-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Anil Kumar <anil.ietf@gmail.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2020 2:10 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org&g= t;
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
    =C2=A0
    Hi All,

    As Co-Author, I support working group=C2=A0adoption=C2=A0of th= is=C2=A0draft=C2=A0as experimental.

    With Regards
    Anil S N

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:47 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <ace= e=3D40cisco= .com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    =C2=A0

    Based on the discussions in the last meet= ing and on the mailing list regarding=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chai= rs=C2=A0feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-are= a-proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

    =C2=A0

    These differences include abstraction at = arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zon= e abstraction.

    =C2=A0

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption ca= ll for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objectio= n to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

    =C2=A0

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


    --
    Ning So
    972-955-= 0914
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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j1sm452615pgp.93.2020.08.26.20.55.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <3EB8F4C6-9CC0-452E-9E64-D836225F156A@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FA35249F-8F81-4B8A-B5C6-CE9E83ED699A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2020 20:55:44 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> <9C4E178A-42CA-476F-A49B-828C9AED3673@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 03:55:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FA35249F-8F81-4B8A-B5C6-CE9E83ED699A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Les, > [Les:] Any one of the IERs can be elected Area Leader, therefore all = of them have to be configured with the Area Prefix and associated SID. The Area Leader may not be an IER. In fact, in an important use case = for us, the area is a leaf-spine topology. The Area Leader is one of = the spines. The leaves are the edge routers. For resource reasons, we = do NOT want the Area Leader to be a leaf. We do NOT require that the Area Leader candidates have identical = configurations. In fact, if there is a configuration change, it may be = beneficial to configure one candidate differently and then raise its = priority. It=E2=80=99s a simple way of effecting an area-wide = configuration change. =20 > Perhaps you are allowing that each IER could choose a different Area = Prefix/SID. Not sure why you would want to do that =E2=80=93 but even if = you did, the behavior of the winning prefix/SID is analogous to an = anycast address. > The difference here is that the advertisement of the Prefix = Reachability associated with the area prefix is within the Proxy LSP =E2=80= =93 which appears to OERs as if it was originated by all of the IERs = i.e., the set of IERs appears as a single node to the OERs. Still, all = IERs are aware of the winning prefix reachability advertisement and will = do what is required in forwarding based on that content. They will not be aware of it unless we tell them via the Area Proxy TLV. = For obvious reasons, the Inside Nodes do NOT do anything with the Proxy = LSP other than flood it. > Which is why we=E2=80=99re using the Prefix SID. > =20 > [Les:] You are using the prefix-SID, but the advertisement is not = associated with a prefix reachability advertisement, yet you want nodes = to install forwarding entries based on this advertisement. This is what = seems inappropriate. We want outside nodes to install forwarding entries on the Prefix SID. = This is entirely backward compatible. How is that inappropriate? > The only current case where a prefix-SID is advertised and is NOT = associated with prefix reachability is in the Binding TLVs. This has two = use cases: > Advertising SIDs for prefixes associated with nodes which are NOT SR = capable > As an alternative to per prefix advertisement if the operator prefers = to use a centralized SID assignment service > =20 > In both of these cases if a SID were to be advertised in prefix = reachability TLV for the same prefix the SID in the prefix reachability = advertisement would be preferred. > You don=E2=80=99t discuss this at all in the draft i.e., what happens = if the SID in the prefix reachability advertisement for the Area Prefix = differs from that advertised in the Area Proxy TLV. What I am pushing = for is eliminating the need to do so by relying on the existing prefix = SID advertisements and not introducing a new one in the Area Proxy TLV. The existing ones do not have the required semantics. > [Les:] The semantics you require are functionally equivalent to = anycast behavior =E2=80=93 which is supported already. Please point me to anycast semantics that will ONLY be selected by IERs.=20= Tony --Apple-Mail=_FA35249F-8F81-4B8A-B5C6-CE9E83ED699A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Hi Les,

    [Les:] Any one of the IERs can be = elected Area Leader, therefore all of them have to be configured with = the Area Prefix and associated = SID.


    The Area Leader may not = be an IER.  In fact, in an important use case for us, the area is a = leaf-spine topology.  The Area Leader is one of the spines. =  The leaves are the edge routers.  For resource reasons, we do = NOT want the Area Leader to be a leaf.


    We do NOT require that = the Area Leader candidates have identical configurations.  In fact, = if there is a configuration change, it may be beneficial to configure = one candidate differently and then raise its priority.  It=E2=80=99s = a simple way of effecting an area-wide configuration change. =  

    Perhaps you = are allowing that each IER could choose a different Area Prefix/SID. Not = sure why you would want to do that =E2=80=93 but even if you did, the = behavior of the winning prefix/SID is analogous to an anycast = address.
    The difference here is that the = advertisement of the Prefix Reachability associated with the area prefix = is within the Proxy LSP =E2=80=93 which appears to OERs as if it was = originated by all of the IERs i.e., the set of IERs appears as a single = node to the OERs. Still, all IERs are aware of the winning prefix = reachability advertisement and will do what is required in forwarding = based on that = content.


    They will not be aware = of it unless we tell them via the Area Proxy TLV.  For obvious = reasons, the Inside Nodes do NOT do anything with the Proxy LSP other = than flood it.


    Which is why we=E2=80=99re using the = Prefix SID.
     
    [Les:] You = are using the prefix-SID, but the advertisement is not associated with a = prefix reachability  advertisement, yet you want nodes to install = forwarding entries based on this advertisement. This is what seems = inappropriate.


    We want outside = nodes to install forwarding entries on the Prefix SID.  This is = entirely backward compatible.  How is that = inappropriate?


    The only current case where a prefix-SID is = advertised and is NOT associated with prefix reachability is in the = Binding TLVs. This has two use cases:
    • Advertising SIDs for = prefixes associated with nodes which are NOT SR capable
    • As an alternative to = per prefix advertisement if the operator prefers to use a centralized = SID assignment service
     
    In both of these cases if a SID = were to be advertised in prefix reachability TLV for the same prefix the = SID in the prefix reachability advertisement would be preferred.
    You don=E2=80=99t discuss this at all in the = draft i.e., what happens if the SID in the prefix reachability = advertisement for the Area Prefix differs from that advertised in the = Area Proxy TLV. What I am pushing for is eliminating the need to do so = by relying on the existing prefix SID advertisements and not introducing = a new one in the Area Proxy = TLV.


    The existing ones do not = have the required semantics.

    [Les:] The semantics you require are functionally = equivalent to anycast behavior =E2=80=93 which is supported = already.

    = --Apple-Mail=_FA35249F-8F81-4B8A-B5C6-CE9E83ED699A-- From nobody Thu Aug 27 03:04:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6C83A090C; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 03:04:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.049 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.049 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.948, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_NOVOWEL=0.5, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9ZUSSNRlx7K; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 03:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6F353A0906; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 03:03:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=25429; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1598522637; x=1599732237; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NOPoxJNDSB9bIFqbz7UkewffGsUSmCkt86vIiJbFfmQ=; b=MyA/O7YUdftuzUfwu+gNnlw6cUxcoYJazwbkNHzCfKtv4QqXMpnBX+F6 BeIHrN8g9FK/fY8jyW88Memv5oJHQnleJCANdUeoGvC+xQIyMq2izxxo3 GLgTViSc7qqYzcntEoU/1i5HULaLPsQdqzySiV1ulmcCnafiv7tiep3BH s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,359,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="29107743" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 27 Aug 2020 10:03:55 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.22] ([10.147.24.22]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07RA3sxd011540; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:03:54 GMT To: Shraddha Hegde , "olivier.dugeon@orange.com" , "tony.li@tony.li" , Robert Raszuk Cc: Christian Hopps , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> <30234_1597837344_5F3D1020_30234_107_1_595a0b47-eb26-8935-fe4f-429ccc725592@orange.com> <4d0b84a7-08b3-e2c6-f918-8009be2d6523@cisco.com> <2595_1597924729_5F3E6579_2595_13_1_7c66f628-46fc-c749-aa45-cb22f6e9e996@orange.com> <1fb53fad-b5ae-4d2f-3fde-180b62bc9645@cisco.com> <9988_1597933548_5F3E87EC_9988_13_3_15236ac6-520b-919b-ecec-c6c58b48b73d@orange.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 12:03:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.22, [10.147.24.22] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 10:04:02 -0000 Hi Shraddha, draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-00 was published May 15, 2018 (over two years ago). It clearly stated: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-00#section-9 "To advertise a link affinity in a form of the AG or EAG that is used during Flex-Algorithm calculation, an Application Specific Link Attributes sub-TLV as described in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app], or sub-TLV of Extended Link TLV as described in [I-D.ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse] MUST be used. The advertisement MUST indicate that it is usable by the Flex-Algorithm application." This is consistent with normative statements in both https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-19 and https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-te-link-attr-reuse/ which REQUIRE the use of application specific advertisements by all applications other than the legacy applications (RSVP-TE, Segment Routing Policy, Loop Free Alternate). draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo had a lifetime of 10 months(V00 published in July 2017) and draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo only 3 months (V00 published in Feb 2018). Juniper may have its own reasons why over the course of the past two years it has chosen not to modify its early implementation to be compatible with what is defined in the WG adopted draft. We do not question this choice. But it seems the most appropriate way to communicate this is for Juniper to document in its vendor specific documents that its implementation is based on a pre-WG draft and is incompatible with the IETF defined standard. IETF documents are not the correct place for such proprietary information. It is obvious that the implementation that is not following the final specification will not interoperate with other implementations that do so. There is no need to mention that in the RFC. thanks, Peter and Les On 25/08/2020 17:27, Shraddha Hegde wrote: > Hi All, > > draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was created by combining > > draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and > draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo-00. > > When draft-lsr-flex-algo-00 was published as a WG document, it included > > a requirement for using te-app encodings that did not exist in either > > draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo-02 and > draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo-00. > > Juniper's currently released implementation of flex-algo uses legacy > encodings, > > as opposed to te-app encodings.  I would like the following text added to > > draft-lsr-flex-algo in order to record the history of these changes and > to make > > operators aware of possible inter-op problems that may arise due to the > > non-backward compatible nature of mandating ASLA encodings. > > ===== > > 11.  Advertisement of Link Attributes for Flex-Algorithm > > " Earlier versions of this draft did not mandate the use of ASLA TLVs > for encoding the > > link attributes. There may be implementations that depend on legacy > encodings as defined in > > RFC 5305, RFC 7810 , RC 3630 and RFC 7471. Implementations that look at > only ASLA encodings > > for flex-algo based on this version of the document will not > interoperate with versions > > that use legacy advertisements. " > > ======== > > Rgds > > Shraddha > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:*olivier.dugeon@orange.com > *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:56 PM > *To:* Peter Psenak ; tony.li@tony.li; Robert Raszuk > > *Cc:* Christian Hopps ; > draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > ; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; > Acee Lindem (acee) > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > Peter, > > Le 20/08/2020 à 14:12, Peter Psenak a écrit : > > Hi Olivier, > > On 20/08/2020 13:58, olivier.dugeon@orange.com > wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > Thank for the new version. > > Le 19/08/2020 à 14:00, Peter Psenak a écrit : > > Olivier, > > [ ... ] > > So, to speed up the deployment, I would prefer a > reference to a delay value that could be advertise by > means of RFC7471, RFC8570 and/or TE-App draft. It is > then up to the operator to ensure the coherency of what > it is announced in its network by the different routers. > > > I know you don't like the app specific link advertisement, > but I'm afraid what you ask for is absolutely wrong. > > We defined the ASLA encoding to address a real problems for > advertising the link attributes. We allow the link > attributes to be advertised in both legacy and ASLA > advertisement for legacy application (RSVP-TE, SRTE) to > address the backward compatibility. Flex-algo is a new > application, there is absolutely no need to use the legacy > advertisement. Doing so would just extend the problem to the > flex-algo application. > > > Regarding the new version you provided, new section 5.1 (for > IS-IS) and section 5.2 (for OSPF) mention respectively RFC 8570 > and RFC 7471 for the definition of Min delay and TE metric which > is fine for me. But, they also made reference to draft > isis-te-app, respectively ospf-te-link-attr-reuse to encode > these value. > > > that's what people were asking for. And it is right because we are > mandating the usage of ALSA encoding for any flex-algo related link > attributes. > > Here, it is confusing. > > > I don't see how much more clear we can make it. > > Indeed, RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 also define the way to encode TE > metric and Min delay. > > > you have to distinguish between two things: > > a)  where Min delay and TE metric were defined - RFC 8570 and RFC 7471 > b)  how we encode it for flex-algo - isis-te-app, > ospf-te-link-attr-reuse > > > What I'm suggesting, is a clear reference to the RFC for TE > metric and Min delay definition as well as the encoding > (especially for the delay) while leaving open the door to how > the router acquire these values: legacy a.k.a. RFC 8570 & 7471 > or new draft a.k.a draft-isis-te-app & draft-ospf-link-attr-reuse. > > > no. This will not be done. We only allow ASLA advertisement for > these metrics and other link attributes that are used for flex-algo. > It is done for a reason and I have already explained that. > > OK. Reading section 11 which clarify how metrics are convey, let me > suggest to make a reference to section 11 in section 5.1 and 5.2 instead > of reference to drafts. > > > In fact, in section 17.1.2, you mention only reference to RFC > 8570 & RFC7471 for the IANA definition which is fine for me. > > > because in registry, we are defining a metric type, not how we are > going to advertise it for the link. > > OK. > > I would suggest the same wording for section 5.1. and 5.2 > leaving operator free about how it collect the values from the > neighbour routers: legacy or new method. > > > please stop trying to make use of legacy RSVP-TE link advertisements > for flex-algo - it will not be allowed. > > This raise to me a simple question: Is it possible to use 2 different > Flex Algo with delay metric, one for App A and another one for App B ? > if yes, how can we link metrics advertise in ALSA A from metrics > advertise in ALSA B ? The draft mention only one bit for Flex-Algo. > > Regards, > > Olivier > > PS. I note a duplicate paragraph in section 12: "When computing the path > for a given Flex-Algorithm, the metric-type that is part of the > Flex-Algorithm definition (Section 5) MUST be used." > > > thanks, > Peter > > > Regards > > Olivier > > PS. We have a pre-alpha implementation of flex algo using the > legacy metrics and I know that recent IOS-XR provided similar > implementation of flex algo based on legacy metrics. > > > regards, > Peter > > > Regards > > Olivier > > Le 18/08/2020 à 19:02, tony.li@tony.li > a écrit : > > > Robert, > > Thank you, exactly. > > We just need a clarification of the document.  I > don’t understand why this is such a big deal. > > Tony > > > On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk > > > > wrote: > > Les, > > I think this is not very obvious as Tony is > pointing out. > > See RFC 8570 says: > >        Type    Description > > ---------------------------------------------------- > >         33     Unidirectional Link Delay > >         34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > That means that is someone implementing it reads > text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum > value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick > minimum value from ULD type 33 :) > > If you want to be precise this draft may say > minimum value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link > Delay (34) and be done. > > That's all. > > Cheers, > R. > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg > (ginsberg) > > > wrote: > >     Tony – > >     As an author of both RFC 8570 and > I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not >     sure why you are confused – nor why you got > misdirected to code >     point 33. > >     RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) > define: > >     34           Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > >     This sub-TLV contains two values: > >     “Min Delay:  This 24-bit field carries the > minimum measured link >     delay > >           value (in microseconds) over a > configurable interval, >     encoded as > >           an integer value. > >        Max Delay:  This 24-bit field carries > the maximum measured >     link delay > >           value (in microseconds) over a > configurable interval, >     encoded as > >           an integer value.” > >     It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is > referring to Min >     Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. > >     I agree it is important to be unambiguous > in specifications, but >     I think Peter has been very clear. > >     Please explain how you managed to end up at > code point 33?? > >        Les > >     *From:* Lsr > > > >     *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li > > >     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >     *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > > > > >     *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > ; > lsr-ads@ietf.org > > ; Christian Hopps > > > >; Acee Lindem (acee) > > > >; > draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org > > > >     *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for > draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > >     Hi Peter, > > > >         section 5.1 of the > draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: > > >         Min Unidirectional Link Delay as > defined in >         [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. > >         We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional > Link Delay", so this >         cannot be mixed with other delay values > (max, average). > >     The problem is that that does not exactly > match “Unidirectional >     Link Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link > Delay”, leading to >     the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you > leave things open to >     people guessing. Now, it’s a metriic, so of > course, you always >     want to take the min.  So type 33 seems > like a better match. > > > > > >         section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: > >         Type   Description >                          Encoding > >                                            Reference > > --------------------------------------------------------- > >         34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link > Delay    RFC8570 > >     And it also says: > >     33      Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 > > > > >     This does not help. > > > >         So, IMHO what we have now is correct > and sufficient, but I >         have no issue adding the text you > proposed below. > >     What you have now is ambiguous. We have a > responsibility, as >     writers of specifications, to be precise > and clear.  We are not >     there yet. > > > >         BTW, before I posted 09 version of > flex-algo draft, I asked >         if you were fine with just referencing > ietf-isis-te-app in >         5.1. I thought you were, as you did not > indicate otherwise. > >     My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > > > >         Anyway, I consider this as a pure > editorial issue and >         hopefully not something that would > cause you to object the WG >         LC of the flex-algo draft. > >     I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially > resolved, but important >     clarification. > >     You also have an author’s email that is > bouncing, so at least one >     more spin is required. > >     Sorry, > >     Tony > > > _______________________________________________ >     Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > > -- > Orange logo > > > > Olivier Dugeon > Orange Expert, Future Networks > Open Source Referent > Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ > > fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 > mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 > olivier.dugeon@orange.com > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des > informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne > doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans > autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, > veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces > jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete > altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain > confidential or privileged information that may be > protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without > authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify > the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for > messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > -- > Orange logo > > > > Olivier Dugeon > Orange Expert, Future Networks > Open Source Referent > Orange/IMT/OLN/WTC/IEE/iTeQ > > fixe : +33 2 96 07 28 80 > mobile : +33 6 82 90 37 85 > olivier.dugeon@orange.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des > informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si > vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les > messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > deforme ou falsifie. 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Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. 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Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:48:55 +0000 Received: from TY2PR03MB4077.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7ebd::52) by SG2APC01FT013.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7ebd::186) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3326.19 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:48:55 +0000 Received: from TY2PR03MB4077.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a4eb:12ea:2a7b:bcd8]) by TY2PR03MB4077.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a4eb:12ea:2a7b:bcd8%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3348.005; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:48:55 +0000 From: reta Yang To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6lL5FjS Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:76E3AE6AE9C750A4D10B41DEAF8410948BD3FDB869259BE0DFC65F876E82C037; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support the adoption. This protocol can ease the deployment overhead. Thanks, Reta ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 PM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_TY2PR03MB40777BD629A3E3F747FD883CE1550TY2PR03MB4077apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I support the adoption.
    This protocol can ease the deployment overhead.

    Thanks,
    Reta

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ie= tf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 PM
    To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeti= ng and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chair= s feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area= -proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at a= rbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone= abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption cal= l for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection= to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

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Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:58:58 +0000 Received: from HK0PR01MB2115.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::553e:d5de:fb7d:f37b]) by HK0PR01MB2115.apcprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([fe80::553e:d5de:fb7d:f37b%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3305.032; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:58:58 +0000 From: ruoxin huang To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6lL5FjSgAADLqw= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:58:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:58932BD2121CC8F21943EBAEDC5EF42B1BBF95AD2363A24046A535473AD9493B; UpperCasedChecksum:E09BF9824522C8F9BF90B083064A0E1245B52382AB8011BA05DC5DF4FB7C9901; SizeAsReceived:7128; Count:43 x-tmn: [+4rGsCS2BEsKwvw5TR/GZAs/KWVogmlkei177A5FT5+ckAtAC4TPTfid57zP3t/E] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 43 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 56ebfc9e-fc63-47ad-666a-08d84a8094d1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SG2APC01HT082: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support working group adoption of this draft. Best, Ruoxin Sent from Outlook ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of reta Yang Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 7:48 PM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I support the adoption. This protocol can ease the deployment overhead. Thanks, Reta ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 PM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_HK0PR01MB2115C029B33A5968BB68FFFCB9550HK0PR01MB2115apcp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I support working group adoption of this draft.

    Best,
    Ruoxin

    Sent from Outlook

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of reta Yang <reta.yang@outlook.com>
    Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 7:48 PM
    To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     
    I support the adoption.
    This protocol can ease the deployment overhead.

    Thanks,
    Reta

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces= @ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 10:16 PM
    To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeti= ng and on the mailing list regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chair= s feel that there are enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area= -proxy-03 and in the community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at a= rbitrary boundaries and IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone= abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption cal= l for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection= to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

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cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Aug 2020 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <186D218D-79A6-4CFF-89EB-315199E7E9E0@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0E4C4C82-BC9E-464E-A2D9-1FECC52E02BE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 08:19:23 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> <9C4E178A-42CA-476F-A49B-828C9AED3673@tony.li> <3EB8F4C6-9CC0-452E-9E64-D836225F156A@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 15:19:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0E4C4C82-BC9E-464E-A2D9-1FECC52E02BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, =20 > [Les:] Thanx for clarifying this. A careful reading of the draft = supports what you say, but as this point could be easily overlooked it = might be worth emphasizing this in the draft. Noted and enhanced. > We do NOT require that the Area Leader candidates have identical = configurations. In fact, if there is a configuration change, it may be = beneficial to configure one candidate differently and then raise its = priority. It=E2=80=99s a simple way of effecting an area-wide = configuration change. =20 > =20 > [Les:] Section 4.2 states: > =20 > =E2=80=9CFor consistency, all Area Leader candidates SHOULD be = configured with > the same Proxy System Id, Proxy Hostname, and any other information > that may be inserted into the Proxy LSP.=E2=80=9D > =20 > I would agree that the flexibility to easily propagate a config change = to be reflected in the Proxy LSP content requires relaxation of this = rule. This is exactly why it says SHOULD and not MUST. > We want outside nodes to install forwarding entries on the Prefix SID. = This is entirely backward compatible. How is that inappropriate? > =20 > [Les:] Installation of forwarding entries today is based on Prefix = Reachability advertisements. You are proposing to extend that by = requiring a forwarding entry to be installed based on the context of the = Area Proxy TLV. > I would prefer that you not introduce this. I am well aware of that. Perhaps it would help if I tell you that I am 100% impervious to = Persuasion by Repetition. I understand what you want. I disagree with = you on the tradeoffs. > In addition, since there will also be a Prefix Reachability = Advertisement for the Area Prefix in the Proxy LSP, the IERs will have = two sources of information for the SID associated with the Area prefix = (Area SID sub-TLV from Area leader L2 LSP and Prefix Reachability = advertisement in the Proxy LSP). Which introduces the possibility of = inconsistency. No, since the IERs are supposed to ignore the Proxy LSP for any purpose = other than flooding. I=E2=80=99m adding an explicit statement to this = effect. The only source of truth is the Area Proxy TLV generated by the = Area Leader. > The existing ones do not have the required semantics. > =20 > [Les:] That=E2=80=99s wasn=E2=80=99t the point. That is the entire point. You insist that we advertise the Area SID as = a Prefix SID in addition to the a prefix in the Area Proxy TLV. The = additional Prefix SID does NOT have the semantics that we want and = causes deleterious side-effects. > The point was that when a SID is advertised in prefix reachability it = is used in preference to advertisements in other TLVs. Except when it is part of the Proxy LSP, in which case we want the = Inside Routers to ignore it. We do NOT want Inside Routers creating = forwarding state or SPF state for every prefix and SID in the Proxy LSP. > [Les:] The semantics you require are functionally equivalent to = anycast behavior =E2=80=93 which is supported already. > =20 > =20 > Please point me to anycast semantics that will ONLY be selected by = IERs.=20 > [Les:] You have specified that only IERs and Outside Routers process = Proxy LSP content. So why do you ask this question? You=E2=80=99re asking me to use another mechanism. I don=E2=80=99t see = how it applies. I=E2=80=99m open to you educating me. IERs do NOT process Proxy LSP content other than to flood it. Tony --Apple-Mail=_0E4C4C82-BC9E-464E-A2D9-1FECC52E02BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Les,

     
    [Les:] Thanx for clarifying this. = A careful reading of the draft supports what you say, but as this point = could be easily overlooked it might be worth emphasizing this in the = draft.


    Noted and = enhanced.

    We do NOT require that the Area Leader candidates have = identical configurations.  In fact, if there is a configuration = change, it may be beneficial to configure one candidate differently and = then raise its priority.  It=E2=80=99s a simple way of effecting an = area-wide configuration change.  
     
    [Les:] Section 4.2 states:
     
    =E2=80=9CFor = consistency, all Area Leader candidates SHOULD be configured with
       the same Proxy System Id, Proxy = Hostname, and any other information
       that may be inserted into the = Proxy LSP.=E2=80=9D
     
    I would agree that the = flexibility to easily propagate a config change to be reflected in the = Proxy LSP content requires relaxation of this = rule.


    This is exactly why it = says SHOULD and not MUST.


    We want outside nodes to install forwarding entries on the = Prefix SID.  This is entirely backward compatible.  How is = that inappropriate?
     
    [Les:] = Installation of forwarding entries today is based on Prefix Reachability = advertisements. You are proposing to extend that by requiring a = forwarding entry to be installed based on the context of the Area Proxy = TLV.
    I would prefer that you not = introduce = this.


    I am well aware of = that.

    Perhaps it would help if I = tell you that I am 100% impervious to Persuasion by Repetition.  I = understand what you want. I disagree with you on the = tradeoffs.


    In addition, since there will also be a Prefix = Reachability Advertisement for the Area Prefix in the Proxy LSP, the = IERs will have two sources of information for the SID associated with = the Area prefix (Area SID sub-TLV from Area leader L2 LSP and Prefix = Reachability advertisement in the Proxy LSP). Which introduces the = possibility of = inconsistency.


    No, since the IERs = are supposed to ignore the Proxy LSP for any purpose other than = flooding. I=E2=80=99m adding an explicit statement to this effect. The = only source of truth is the Area Proxy TLV generated by the Area = Leader.


    The existing ones do not = have the required semantics.
     
    [Les:] = That=E2=80=99s wasn=E2=80=99t the = point.



    That is the entire point.  You insist that we = advertise the Area SID as a Prefix SID in addition to the a prefix in = the Area Proxy TLV.  The additional Prefix SID does NOT have the = semantics that we want and causes deleterious = side-effects.


    The point = was that when a SID is advertised in prefix reachability it is used in = preference to advertisements in other = TLVs.


    Except when it is part of the = Proxy LSP, in which case we want the Inside Routers to ignore it. =  We do NOT want Inside Routers creating forwarding state or SPF = state for every prefix and SID in the Proxy LSP.


    [Les:] The semantics you require = are functionally equivalent to anycast behavior =E2=80=93 which is = supported already.
     
     
    Please point me to anycast semantics = that will ONLY be selected by IERs. 
    [Les:] You = have specified that only IERs and Outside Routers process Proxy LSP = content.  So why do you ask this question?


    You=E2=80=99re asking me = to use another mechanism.  I don=E2=80=99t see how it applies. =  I=E2=80=99m open to you educating me.

    IERs do NOT process Proxy LSP content other than = to flood it.

    Tony


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t8mr11721760pjv.224.1598544212455; Thu, 27 Aug 2020 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.80.223] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q5sm3645632pfu.16.2020.08.27.09.03.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Aug 2020 09:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <9C730754-BE24-4FDE-83D6-792673618E30@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_420C236C-9E9A-4F48-AB78-1754479CAE3E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 09:03:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" To: Les Ginsberg References: <159665865921.15026.2581762617571023706@ietfa.amsl.com> <476BCC1F-0C33-4DEA-84DF-365FB5CBA377@tony.li> <9C4E178A-42CA-476F-A49B-828C9AED3673@tony.li> <3EB8F4C6-9CC0-452E-9E64-D836225F156A@tony.li> <186D218D-79A6-4CFF-89EB-315199E7E9E0@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2020 16:03:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_420C236C-9E9A-4F48-AB78-1754479CAE3E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Les, =20 > The statement =E2=80=9Cthe =E2=80=A6 Prefix SID does NOT have the = semantics that we want and causes deleterious side-effects=E2=80=9D is = FALSE. Ahem. I disagree. No need to be rude about it. > There is an alternative here: > =20 > Given that there isn=E2=80=99t any defined use case for the Area = Prefix/SID, you could choose to defer its definition until such time as = a use case arises. > I agree that the concept is appealing and is potentially useful =E2=80=93= which is why I thought it worthwhile to invest time in defining it. But = a conservative approach might be to wait until we actually need it = before defining it. It is always possible that when the use case arises = we will find that there are some other issues which have been overlooked = which might alter how this would be advertised. You=E2=80=99ve heard two of our customers here on the list tell you that = they want this. Therefore, we=E2=80=99re going to ship it. Tony --Apple-Mail=_420C236C-9E9A-4F48-AB78-1754479CAE3E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Les,

     
    The statement =E2=80=9Cthe =E2=80=A6 = Prefix SID does NOT have the semantics that we want and causes = deleterious side-effects=E2=80=9D is = FALSE.


    Ahem.  I disagree.  No need to be rude about = it.


    There is an alternative = here:
     
    Given = that there isn=E2=80=99t any defined use case for the Area Prefix/SID, = you could choose to defer its definition until such time as a use case = arises.
    I= agree that the concept is appealing and is potentially useful =E2=80=93 = which is why I thought it worthwhile to invest time in defining it. But = a conservative approach might be to wait until we actually need it = before defining it. It is always possible that when the use case arises = we will find that there are some other issues which have been overlooked = which might alter how this would be advertised.


    You=E2=80=99ve heard two of our customers here on = the list tell you that they want this.  Therefore, we=E2=80=99re = going to ship it.

    Tony


    = --Apple-Mail=_420C236C-9E9A-4F48-AB78-1754479CAE3E-- From nobody Mon Aug 31 07:52:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146AA3A0C2E for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:52:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TDUSgDJgYTZ9 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BEA63A0C33 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 07:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6E2BD732C9E3F426D7FA for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:52:38 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:52:38 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:52:37 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM532-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.158]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Mon, 31 Aug 2020 22:52:30 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWf6ZarWqgwMttlUew2Oxi/nJ6Bw== Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:52:31 +0000 Message-ID: 305ED358-B481-4E8A-9AF4-75F0E803B537 References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_305ED358B4814E8A9AF475F0E803B537_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:52:45 -0000 --_000_305ED358B4814E8A9AF475F0E803B537_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7B1E1E46DFCC8C811412 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 03:13:08 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggema773-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.217) by lhreml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 03:13:07 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggema773-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 10:13:05 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 10:13:05 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6lTHb9A Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 02:13:05 +0000 Message-ID: <676f04f3f1a94e209c17e50d9d055dcb@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.242.209] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_676f04f3f1a94e209c17e50d9d055dcbhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 02:13:12 -0000 --_000_676f04f3f1a94e209c17e50d9d055dcbhuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 627234e9-e15c-49f3-ace2-08d84e2d77dd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Sep 2020 04:14:06.3317 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /YHd3klnPvKzPgAhxFODcTI+boVMbmMoFSdKbVMuI/PjtDgwL31pcSynrU2YyVWB4uJ7f+rNRgNR1kJV6mlz+A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB3502 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 04:14:14 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB31175880AA12356A43F07CE4F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Henk, It seems that IS-IS TTZ should not be complex. The prototype implementa= tion of OSPF TTZ seems simple and easy to operate. The complexity of IS-IS= TTZ is similar to that of OSPF TTZ. In addition, we will try our best to r= educe its complexity further. IS-IS TTZ is one of a few proposals/drafts which explore/experiment new= ways for scalability. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr on behalf of Henk Smit Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 12:08 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I object the introduction of a new major concept, called "zone". It adds nothing to solve problems we can not already solve. It just adds unnecessary complexity and technical debt. (12) In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. henk. Acee Lindem (acee) schreef op 2020-08-18 16:16: > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are > enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the > community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental > track. > > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and > IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. > > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection > to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020. > > Thanks, > > Acee and Chris > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futur= ewei.com%7C1eebe40e2ab34d2ed03c08d8445a297c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591f= edc%7C1%7C0%7C637334501365871305&sdata=3D7Al1Hk%2FnR%2B19cbAigxEopXaX4x= 4bAneLMphQCjZw6c0%3D&reserved=3D0 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurew= ei.com%7C1eebe40e2ab34d2ed03c08d8445a297c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed= c%7C1%7C0%7C637334501365881301&sdata=3DDMbOGdYQyEK9Abyc6TpFaP5P4iU5D7Se= MDl69SUMVzY%3D&reserved=3D0 --_000_MN2PR13MB31175880AA12356A43F07CE4F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Henk,

        It seems that IS-IS TTZ should not be complex. The prototype = implementation of OSPF TTZ  seems simple and easy to operate. The comp= lexity of IS-IS TTZ is similar to that of OSPF TTZ. In addition, we will tr= y our best to reduce its complexity further. 
        IS-IS TTZ is one of a few proposals/drafts which explore/expe= riment new ways for scalability. 

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo
    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@i= etf.org> on behalf of Henk Smit <henk.ietf@xs4all.nl>
    Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 12:08 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     
    I object the introduction of a new major concept, = called "zone".
    It adds nothing to solve problems we can not already solve.
    It just adds unnecessary complexity and technical debt.

    (12) In protocol design, perfection has been reached not when there
          is nothing left to add, but when there is no= thing left to take
    away.

    henk.


    Acee Lindem (acee) schreef op 2020-08-18 16:16:
    > Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list > regarding draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are
    > enough differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the > community to consider advancing it independently on the experimental > track.
    >
    > These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and
    > IS-IS extensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction.
    >
    > We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for
    > draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt. Please indicate your support or objection<= br> > to adoption prior to Tuesday, September 2nd, 2020.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Acee and Chris
    > _______________________________________________
    > Lsr mailing list
    > Lsr@ietf.org
    > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40fut= urewei.com%7C1eebe40e2ab34d2ed03c08d8445a297c%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559= 1fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637334501365871305&amp;sdata=3D7Al1Hk%2FnR%2B19cbAigxEo= pXaX4x4bAneLMphQCjZw6c0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
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Tue, 1 Sep 2020 04:34:54 +0000 From: Huaimo Chen To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHWdWo2KYWgaPUbtk6IEMCEThi+P6k+WrRAgAACWkyAAAswwIAAAtBBgAAGkACAFNDdQg== Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2020 04:34:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: , , , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [73.114.233.24] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ec246b98-4d02-4aa8-4180-08d84e305f97 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR13MB2687: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Y0BeHoTnzA2DNhNq3KDPkIIoTlsG84ind3/txAeXdlFZHg8IpbhI65KsFENf7T3aYLelAj04qjp2o+x+0J8Wms/+tLjLRmOeugr/buZXvyzQEJrajscYAixeihcLrDK0rIWveYVh9aswdcVv0ZZQukLf3HECtFEh5ZXbLKpKsKNUrnFnYLjCWewX0vT0kzPIdJ6cXU1KBWvMdLYYAHq1V1z5YjGDokG8KHD/8+IlfAKx3uCLw/N+cuGsjyI2fqDR+OCscUS4AB/S2YrVzG8G1sUD06i+mrpRGh9hoVnnRbO1fd9++/YzMca0lCidu1dMF6CsZ9YxTks+T0UDNAnvJQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_MN2PR13MB3117C29A75A371B630C62B00F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR13MB3117.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ec246b98-4d02-4aa8-4180-08d84e305f97 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Sep 2020 04:34:54.0880 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 8nhNrfmd8/QXT6igvKAU6xwr8ialuMx4XiDOehWe4k+yn4TANhI8RXEHnKpgNixwcUcHBZw5bOUGZEb+4LvZAw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR13MB2687 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 04:35:00 -0000 --_000_MN2PR13MB3117C29A75A371B630C62B00F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, > The question I and others have asked is =93what can we do with zones that= cannot be done with areas?=94. [HC]: IS-IS TTZ or say Zone is one of a few drafts which experiment/exp= lore new ways for scalability. These new ways may be simpler and have some = other features. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 6:52 PM To: Huaimo Chen ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Huaimo =96 The question I and others have asked is =93what can we do with zones that c= annot be done with areas?=94. >From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was first presented, your an= swer has been =93with zones you can hitlessly alter the topological boundar= ies=94. My response has consistently been =93we can already do that with areas=94. If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use case = that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly. Continuing to focus on something that can already be done with areas isn=92= t helping you. Les From: Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single no= de or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/= splitting without adjacency flaps has been done before this abstraction and= will not reduce the service interruption during the abstraction. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM To: Huaimo Chen >; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org= > Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - d= raft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Huaimo =96 It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps. The technique has been known for many years. It requires careful planning =96 but it is quite feasible and has been done= . You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Huaimo Chen Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org= Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Hi Les, > I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work j= ust fine. > IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting area= s.. [HC]: The smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS= will not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is= being abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. > Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to= /from zone abstraction=94. [HC]: The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduce the ser= vice interruption while an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a s= ingle node and vice versa. Best Regards, Huaimo ________________________________ From: Lsr > on behalf of = Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zon= e" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work jus= t fine. IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas. Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction=94. If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well. I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ. Les From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" -= draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough differenc= es with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to consider = advancing it independently on the experimental track. These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction. We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020. Thanks, Acee and Chris --_000_MN2PR13MB3117C29A75A371B630C62B00F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Les,

    > The question I and others have asked is =93what can we do w= ith zones that cannot be done with areas?=94.
        [HC]: IS-IS TTZ or say Zone is one of a few dra= fts which experiment/explore new ways for scalability. These new ways may b= e simpler and have some other features.

    Best Regards,
    Huaimo
    From: Les Ginsberg (ginsber= g) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 6:52 PM
    To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; Les Ginsberg (gin= sberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) &l= t;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org><= br> Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt
     

    Huaimo =96

     

    The question I and others have asked is =93what can we do with zones that c= annot be done with areas?=94.

     

    >From the day several years ago when IS-IS TTZ was first presented,  yo= ur answer has been =93with zones you can hitlessly alter the topological bo= undaries=94.

    My response has consistently been =93we can already do that with areas=94.<= /p>


    If you want to justify zones, you then need to provide some other use case = that either cannot be done using areas or cannot be done hitlessly.

    Continuing to focus on something that can already be done with areas isn=92= t helping you.

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 3:18 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Les Ginsberg= (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (ace= e) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les,

     

        > It is possible to merge/s= plit areas without adjacency flaps.

      &n= bsp; [HC]: While an existing area or zone is being abstracted as a single node = or vice versa, there are the adjacency ups and downs. The areas merging/splitting without adjacency flaps has been done b= efore this abstraction and will not reduce the service interruption during = the abstraction. =

     

    Best Regards,

    Huaimo

    From:= Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg= @cisco.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:59 PM
    To: Huaimo Chen <hua= imo.chen@futurewei.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf= .org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpare= nt Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Huaimo =96

     

    It is possible to merge/split areas without adjacency flaps.

    The technique has been known for many years.

    It requires careful planning =96 but it is quite feasible and has been done= .

     

    You cannot justify the need for zones on this basis.

     

       Les

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ie= tf.org> On Behalf Of Huaimo Chen
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 2:33 PM
    To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Acee Li= ndem (acee) <acee= =3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    Hi Les,

     

    > I see no need for =93a= bstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work just fine.

    > IS-IS already has smoo= th transition capability for merging/splitting areas..

       

    [HC]: The s= mooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas in IS-IS will = not reduce the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being= abstracted as a single node because the adjacency ups and downs. 

     

    > Given both of the poin= ts above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/from zone abstraction= =94.

     

    [HC]: = The "smooth transition to/from zone abstraction" will reduc= e the service interruption while an existing area or zone is being abs= tracted as a single node and vice versa.

     

    Best Regards,

    Huaimo

    From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:06 PM
    To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Tra= nsparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

    I see no need for =93abstraction at arbitrary boundaries=94. Areas work jus= t fine.

     

    IS-IS already has smooth transition capability for merging/splitting areas.=

     

    Given both of the points above, I see no value in =93smooth transition to/f= rom zone abstraction=94.

     

    If these are the principal distinguishing characteristics of TTZ as compare= d to area proxy (and I would agree they are), then I see no reason why this= solution should be pursued as well.

     

    I am therefore opposed to WG adoption of TTZ.

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ie= tf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:17 AM
    To: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transpa= rent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt

     

     

    Based on the discussions in the last meeting and on the mailing list regard= ing draft-chen-isis-ttz-11, the chairs feel that there are enough= differences with draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-03 and in the community to= consider advancing it independently on the experimental track.

     

    These differences include abstraction at arbitrary boundaries and IS-IS ext= ensions for smooth transition to/from zone abstraction.

     

    We are now starting an LSR WG adoption call for draft-chen-isis-ttz-11.txt.= Please indicate your support or objection to adoption prior to Tuesday, Se= ptember 2nd, 2020.

     

    Thanks,

    Acee and Chris

     

    --_000_MN2PR13MB3117C29A75A371B630C62B00F22E0MN2PR13MB3117namp_--

    Just a thought to build on what Tianran mentioned.

    It almost seems as if IPFIX= taking on the role of BGP-LU / PCE =C2=A0centralized controller function t= o to create a SR graph of the topology.=C2=A0 We already have all the SR to= pology data in the PCE for path instantiation and steering. =C2=A0

    Do we also really need the data = replicated into IPFIX.
    =C2=A0=C2=A0
    The PCE may also be able to do fault isolation and troubleshooti= ng as it has the topology of the entire SR domain.
    <= br>
    Something to consider.=C2=A0 Also gathering flat= bits and pieces of information is =C2=A0not the same as what is being fed = by BGP-LS into the PCE.=C2=A0 So am wondering what value this will provide = with the flat construction of the network graph.
    Gyan=C2=A0

    On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 11:05 PM Ti= anran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei= .com> wrote:















    Hi Thomas,



    <= span style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0



    I think questions from both K= etan and Gyan on the IE usage are very important. The value should be descr= ibed clearly in the draft. So that people now how to implement and use them= .



    Here your replay to Ketan on the mplsTopLabelType is clear to m= e. You want to account the traffic with different IGP distribution, to see = if your network runs correct.



    The SrSidType seems more complex. = =C2=A0



    =E2=80=9CSince it describes that a particular adjacency = is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingSt= atus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead to the drop a= nd this enables

    to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing= networks more efficiently and quickly.=E2=80=9D


    Could you please= make this use case more clear joint with IE89?


    And this case wan= t to justify the value of Adjacency SID. Is there any other use cases for a= ccounting other sid types?



    =C2=A0


    Thanks,=



    Tia= nran



    =C2=A0







    From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of

    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com


    Sent: Saturday= , August 15, 2020 2:01 PM


    To: ketant@cisco.com; hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org

    Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type







    = =C2=A0



    Hi Ketan,



    =C2=A0


    =



    =C3=98=C2=A0

    This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS = segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.



    =C2=A0





    =C2=A0





    =C3=98=C2=A0

    What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was b= eing signalled via OSPF or ISIS?



    =C2=A0


    It is important to disting= uish between intend and result.



    =C2=A0



    If you migrate from one label distr= ibution protocol to another, a network operator want's to understand if= the data plane is still forwarding packets with

    the label distribu= tion protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46 enables that by lookin= g at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at the intend. RFC 8661 se= ction 3,

    https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3,<= br>
    describes the context.



    = =C2=A0





    =C3=98=C2=A0=

    What value is prov= ided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?



    <= u>=C2=A0



    Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source r= outing paradigm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the for= warding decisions,

    the node can change the forwarding by pushing ad= ditional labels.. With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension = in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the result of this decision. The example with= " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful
    because the difference of the two is the topology among the adjacency. I= f you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much m= ore sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forw= ard the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89,

    ForwardingStatus is d= rop, we understand that result of that decision lead to the drop and this e= nables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more ef= ficiently and quickly.



    =C2=A0



    =C3= =98=C2=A0

    am asking for WG to weigh the= implementation complexities



    =C2=A0



    For the WG a= nd me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed what you mean= with

    implementation complexities. I wou= ld like to have a better understanding where your fear is coming from. I wo= uld appreciate if you could differentiate between

    MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the la= bel was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used..

    <= u>



    = =C2=A0



    = Best wishes



    Thomas



    <= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-se= rif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0






    =C2=A0



    Hi Thomas,



    =C2=A0


    I should have been more clear= in my email.



    =C2=A0



    The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to t= he IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:


    <= br>



    -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    SR Prefix SID



    -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    SR Adjacency SID




    -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= br>
    SR Binding SID





    -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0

    SR BGP Pe= ering SID





    -=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    =E2=80=A6 and so on



    =C2=A0



    This helps identification of specific S= R-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc= .



    =C2=A0



    And my questions were:





    1)=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS?





    2)= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

    What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency= SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?



    =C2=A0



    I am asking for WG to weigh the imple= mentation complexities and overheads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS s= egments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) that they provide for the
    =
    flow analysis and monitoring.



    =C2=A0



    =

    Thanks,

    Ketan



    =C2=A0







    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>




    <= b>Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40


    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ke= tant) <ketant@cisc= o.com>;

    hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org;

    spring@ietf.org    ; opsawg@ietf.org


    Subject: RE: = [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type



    <= br>


    =C2= =A0



    Hi Ketan,



    =C2=A0


    Thank you very much for the rev= iew and feedback.



    =C2=A0





    =C3=98=C2=A0

    What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix S= ID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what= matters and is more important is that

    it is a Prefix SID. Hardly a= ny deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same pr= efix from different IGPs.



    =C2=A0



    =

    As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used =C2=A0in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating

    from L= DP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom when= we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key po= int here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enable= the possibility to verify

    the label protocol migration without tak= ing the label value into the consideration.


    =C2=A0



    =C3=98=C2=A0

    <= /span>IPFIX may be picking this information fro= m a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this = information is not available therein.



    =C2=A0


    <= br>

    I am not sure = if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.<= u>



    https://www.ietf= .org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-= information-in-ipfix-00.pdf



    =C2=A0



    Slide 2 shows Cisco = as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. Ther= e is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has

    been clarified. Ping= me off the list when you like to have more details.

    = =C2=A0



    = I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that=E2=80=99s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry.
    <= br>    The IE registry enables that a= n IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the= decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier

    make sense = and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends t= he IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so wh= en OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX imp= lementation can point

    to the right code point.    =



    =C2=A0




    =C3= =98=C2=A0

    On some nodes, the same Prefi= x SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?<= u>



    =C2=A0



    In this case the IE 46 shows the label= protocol which was used to program the FIB.



    = =C2=A0





    =C3=98=C2=A0

    For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some case= s not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many o= f these types are control plane elements

    and we can be sure more ge= t added.

    =

    =C2=A0

    =

    I fully agree. As a netw= ork operator its still hard to understand the architecture and constraints = within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed

    at IETF= , this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sense. By purpose, a= ll available SID types are listed in the draft. This with the aim to start = the discussion in the working groups what is possible what makes sense. I w= ould be interested to get

    your and also Jeff's feedback.=



    =C2=A0



    In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit= of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be= a simple

    example why it make sense not only to look at which label= protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type = to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

    =



    =C2=A0



    I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply.<= /span>



    =C2=A0



    Best wishes



    Thomas



    <= u>=C2=A0







    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>




    Sent: Friday= , August 14, 2020 7:35 PM


    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF &l= t;Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com>;

    hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>

    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type







    =C2=A0



    < also copying Spring WG for their review/inpu= ts >



    =C2=A0



    Hi Thomas/All,



    =C2=A0



    =

    I have reviewed the draft and w= ould like to share a different perspective.


    =C2=A0

    What or how much value= be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed o= n a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS =E2=80=93 what matters and is more importan= t is that it is a

    Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be runni= ng multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPF= IX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation where = the protocol does not matter and this information is not

    available = therein.



    =C2=A0



    On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via bot= h BGP and IGP =E2=80=93 what would we use/show?


    =C2=A0



    I would recommend = using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID a= nd so on =E2=80=A6 for the MPLS Label Type.


    =C2=A0

    This also takes away t= he need for the second table that is being proposed to a large extent. For = that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to= different

    between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these t= ypes are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there= really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN = Adjacency SID?



    =C2=A0



    Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and c= omplexity of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX against thei= r value in flow analysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?=



    =C2= =A0



    Th= anks,



    Ketan



    =C2=A0





    =

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org>

    O= n Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com


    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52<= br>

    To: hannes@gredler.at


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org


    Subject: Re: [Lsr] = draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type






    =C2=A0=



    Hi Hannes,



    =C2=A0



    Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, = makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update...



    =C2=A0



    Best Wis= hes



    Thomas





    =C2=A0



    =


    = =C2=A0







    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>




    = Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM


    To: Graf Thoma= s, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>


    Cc: lsr@ietf.org


    Subject:= Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type






    <= u>=C2=A0



    Thomas,





    =C2=A0



    <= br>


    I have one = comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).







    =C2=A0






    Please add also a code point = for BGP Prefix-SID - it=E2=80=99s quite popular in DC deployments.







    <= span lang=3D"DE-CH">https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669



    =




    <= /u>=C2=A0







    thanks,







    = =C2=A0







    /hannes



    <= br>




    =C2=A0






    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11,

    Thomas.Gr= af@swisscom.com     wrote:





    =C2=A0






    Dear lsr,







    =C2=A0







    I presented the following draft







    =C2=A0=







    Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow= Information Export (IPFIX)









    =C2=A0<= u>







    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday









    = =C2=A0






    and today at OPSAWG where I= call for adoption.






    =C2=A0<= span lang=3D"DE-CH">






    This draft adds additional segment routin= g code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 = and segment routing SID types to gain further insights

    into the MPL= S-SR forwarding-plane.

    =





    =C2=A0





    =

    I have been asked to not only gather f= eedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working groups si= nce these code points are related to link state routing

    protocols a= nd mpls data plane.






    =C2=A0<= span lang=3D"DE-CH">






    I am looking forward to your feedback and= input.



    <= br>


    =C2=A0







    Best Wishes=







    = Thomas Graf





    ________________________= _______________________


    Lsr mailing list


    Lsr@ietf.org


    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr









    =C2=A0











    ________= _______________________________________

    OPSAWG mailing list

    <= a href=3D"mailto:OPSAWG@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OPSAWG@ietf.org
    =
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
    =
    --


    Gyan Mish= ra

    Network So= lutions Archi= tect=C2=A0

    M 301 502-1347
    13101 C= olumbia Pike=C2=A0
    Silver Spring, MD


    =
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boundary="_000_MW3PR11MB457038435188E14B03EBD599C15F0MW3PR11MB4570namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MW3PR11MB4570.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5ae68e30-8d5d-48cf-7ef1-08d84279f4da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Aug 2020 06:51:23.6653 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /lqHmmuE7/RyqCQZDarDsoAYPJLWCkVFLx0DCPbkxmWK1yzUkcNJZHRI8ZGZ/iFxN6mNMar8dWJ0FUN6z1NvwQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2271 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 06:51:32 -0000 --_000_MW3PR11MB457038435188E14B03EBD599C15F0MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, Please check inline below. From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. [KT] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the tra= ffic forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the netw= ork. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling= to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two= is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with P= refix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particula= r adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, = ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead t= o the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment rou= ting networks more efficiently and quickly. [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? * am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thanks, Ketan Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_MW3PR11MB457038435188E14B03EBD599C15F0MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Thomas= ,

    &nbs= p;

    Please ch= eck inline below.

    &nbs= p;

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredl= er.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    • This helps identification = of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP,= RSVP-TE, etc.

     =

    To be precise, th= e existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not= the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

    [KT= ] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR Pr= efix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID … (basically the segment t= ypes from RFC8402)? It’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, collectors = and analysers?

    &nbs= p;

    • What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

    &nbs= p;

    It is important t= o distinguish between intend and result.

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

    &nbs= p;

    If you migrate fr= om one label distribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to= understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or = not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic an= d not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

    [KT= ] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the traffi= c forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the network= .

     

    • What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     =

    Quote from RFC840= 2. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". = Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels= .

    [KT] From the document, I= believe we are still talking only about the top of the stack label …=

     

    With IPFIX SrSidT= ype we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the r= esult of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference= of the two is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adja= cency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it descr= ibes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we und= erstand that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables to n= arrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficiently a= nd quickly.

    [KT] My point is why do w= e need to introduce another ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 = as suggested above?

     =

    • am asking for W= G to weigh the implementation complexities=

     =

    For the WG and me= , I would be important if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementation complexiti= es. I would like to have a better understanding where your fear is coming f= rom. I would appreciate if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

    [KT] To be clear, I am no= t talking from the POV of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my fe= edback and perspective:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more co= ntrol plane elements and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that add= itional context/information to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks= this info (traditionally from the “FIB”). This added informati= on should have a strong enough justification of benefit – e.g. How do= es difference between Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” = of flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determ= ined and reported by routers.

     

    Thanks,=

    Ketan

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas= ,

    &nbs= p;

    I should = have been more clear in my email.

    &nbs= p;

    The propo= sal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identif= ier registry:

    • SR Prefix SID
    • SR Adjacency SID=
    • SR = Binding SID
    • SR BGP Peering SID
    • … and so on

    &nbs= p;

    This help= s identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiati= ng them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

    &nbs= p;

    And my qu= estions were:

    1. What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?
    2. Wha= t value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN A= djacency SID?

    &nbs= p;

    I am aski= ng for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the p= roposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) t= hat they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks,

    Ketan

    &nbs= p;

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

     =

    • What or how much value be = there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a = node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments w= ould be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differ= ent IGPs.

    &nbs= p;

    As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swissc= om when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The= key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we= enable the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the consi= deration.

    &nbs= p;

    • IPFIX may be picking this = information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not m= atter and this information is not available therein.

    &nbs= p;

    I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

    https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10= 8/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfi= x-00.pdf

    &nbs= p;

    Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.

     =

    I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an I= PFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the de= cision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point.

    &nbs= p;

    • On some nodes, the same Pr= efix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?=

     

    In this case the IE 46 shows the= label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     

    • For that table = proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different = between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added.

     =

    I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     =

    In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     =

    I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    < also= copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

    &nbs= p;

    Hi Thomas= /All,

    &nbs= p;

    I have re= viewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.

    &nbs= p;

    What or h= ow much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled= /programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is mo= re important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same = prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FI= B in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inform= ation is not available therein.

    &nbs= p;

    On some n= odes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what w= ould we use/show?

    &nbs= p;

    I would r= ecommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peer= ing SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

    &nbs= p;

    This also= takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed to a large= extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases no= t possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements a= nd we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in differentia= tion between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?<= /p>

    &nbs= p;

    Could we = evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level of catego= rization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perha= ps consider a middle ground?

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks,

    Ketan

    &nbs= p;

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    To: hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Hannes,

     =

    Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     

     =

    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Thomas,

     

    I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

     

    Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

     

    thanks,

     

    /hannes

    =  

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

     

    Dear lsr,

     

    I presented the following draft=

     

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

    at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

     

    and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

     

    This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

     

    I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     

    I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas Graf

    ___________________________________= ____________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

     

    --_000_MW3PR11MB457038435188E14B03EBD599C15F0MW3PR11MB4570namp_-- From nobody Mon Aug 17 16:30:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F473A1484; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qmIHqgXgosZr; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288F63A1285; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.int.chopps.org (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DC34616A0; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Christian Hopps Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_81AB3BEC-2E7E-47E6-AC05-64C24B332E0B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:30:04 -0400 Cc: Christian Hopps , lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org To: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 23:30:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_81AB3BEC-2E7E-47E6-AC05-64C24B332E0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, for = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ All authors, please indicate by sending an email to the list, whether = you aware of any other IPR beyond what is already posted: [=46rom = https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-ietf-ls= r-flex-algo] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3910/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3248/ Thanks, Chris & Acee. --Apple-Mail=_81AB3BEC-2E7E-47E6-AC05-64C24B332E0B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.95.82.254] ([162.210.129.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l12sm18912928pjq.31.2020.08.17.16.47.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:47:46 -0700 Cc: lsr@ietf.org, lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> To: Christian Hopps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 23:47:51 -0000 > This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, = for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ Hi, I=E2=80=99d like to raise an objection. Recently, I requested (and I thought that Peter agreed to) a = clarification of the Min Unidirectional Link Delay. As of version -08, the draft references RFC 7810 for the Metric-type in = Section 5.1. =20 That RFC defines both a =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D = (section 4.1) and =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D = (section 4.2). I requested that the reference be extended to specify the section. Instead, as of -09, the reference has been changed to refer to = ietf-isis-te-app. This is somewhat helpful becuase it makes it clear = that this should be found in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV, but it still does = not resolve the ambiguity of which sub-sub-TLV should be used. I would again request that this be clarified. Proposed text: 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC 7810], = section 4.2, encoded in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV = [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. Thank you. 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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 04:24:42 +0000 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo Thread-Index: AQHWdO5sd3XxvFn300OVSJb3xoE7BKk9RPYw Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 04:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> In-Reply-To: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: chopps.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;chopps.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [72.163.220.24] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 07c20f1e-c12d-414c-89ef-08d8432ea12d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1405: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MW3PR11MB4570.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 07c20f1e-c12d-414c-89ef-08d8432ea12d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 04:24:42.2965 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Epmr2ZYMcA6msNZwO4RZk5a6B9MpJjoS8YSauCjJnkWYiU5CJHXNWvL6MkBuIRtYCrG4ELheBdfS87T+hb+z1Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1405 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 04:24:49 -0000 As a co-author, I am not aware of IPR beyond what has been already disclose= d on this document. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Christian Hopps =20 Sent: 18 August 2020 05:00 To: lsr@ietf.org Cc: Christian Hopps ; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (ace= e) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org Subject: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, for dr= aft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ All authors, please indicate by sending an email to the list, whether you a= ware of any other IPR beyond what is already posted: [From https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-= ietf-lsr-flex-algo] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3910/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3248/ Thanks, Chris & Acee. 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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 05:33:10 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" CC: "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo Thread-Index: AQHWdO5dvGlf+k99WUyGQOWY1SyMuKk9V+jQ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 05:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> In-Reply-To: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-08-18T05:33:07Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=6fb96394-9634-414a-a8de-85885ed85d31; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR05MB3576.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 62dae84f-93df-44a9-b5ca-08d843383186 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 05:33:10.0437 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FNp5T7A+J+KzFWzTe6xwcbE1e9Vzl+WZuO3M7OLIMRrVe9XKPxaaKn5dE/X+qFTWSAWn8WEP1r6VnChgs2iMqg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB3351 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-08-18_04:2020-08-17, 2020-08-18 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=940 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2006250000 definitions=main-2008180039 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 05:33:17 -0000 I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR. Rgds Shraddha Juniper Business Use Only -----Original Message----- From: Christian Hopps =20 Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 5:00 AM To: lsr@ietf.org Cc: Christian Hopps ; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (ace= e) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org Subject: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, for dr= aft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ All authors, please indicate by sending an email to the list, whether you a= ware of any other IPR beyond what is already posted: [From https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-= ietf-lsr-flex-algo] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3910/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3248/ Thanks, Chris & Acee. From nobody Tue Aug 18 02:01:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5459C3A07C0; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:01:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fVD-fMu2Pdso; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B55263A07B3; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:01:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2309; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597741288; x=1598950888; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2ayA+LZUn+fegY/+2di8WC6zdSID+rY8jfxPL1JDmDs=; b=XJ30abc+OzIQ+aMkpZl7RBYD/E7I0w2nIWArTHxk/blDndQTcPnsbvTl dD0dIGb/8I5VygECkj6LjR8XaDPbWP0CbvbSAY4GrzUooIb0eCnMcsKEa 1KxPv6966St5MXqnqEAKNvkTlc9JNcqbOLwpuYCpa8a2rnPXAnkGlG8GR U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,326,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="26406804" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 18 Aug 2020 09:01:25 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07I91PJh021770; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:01:25 GMT To: tony.li@tony.li, Christian Hopps Cc: lsr@ietf.org, lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:01:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:01:32 -0000 Hi Tony, section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixed with other delay values (max, average). section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: Type Description Encoding Reference --------------------------------------------------------- 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below. BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise. Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft. thanks, Peter On 18/08/2020 01:47, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > >> This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ > > > > Hi, > > I’d like to raise an objection. > > Recently, I requested (and I thought that Peter agreed to) a clarification of the Min Unidirectional Link Delay. > > As of version -08, the draft references RFC 7810 for the Metric-type in Section 5.1. > > That RFC defines both a “Unidirectional Link Delay” (section 4.1) and “Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay” (section 4.2). > > I requested that the reference be extended to specify the section. > > Instead, as of -09, the reference has been changed to refer to ietf-isis-te-app. This is somewhat helpful becuase it makes it clear that this should be found > in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV, but it still does not resolve the ambiguity of which sub-sub-TLV should be used. > > I would again request that this be clarified. Proposed text: > > 1: Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [RFC 7810], section 4.2, encoded in the Application Specific Link Attributes Sub-TLV [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. > > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Tony > > > From nobody Tue Aug 18 02:04:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C2073A07F2; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 02:04:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCglKpwGrm5Q; 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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:04:30 GMT To: Christian Hopps , lsr@ietf.org Cc: lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org References: From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <0fb13a06-9817-1ef0-f63b-1c65e5a5ad08@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:04:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:04:34 -0000 Hi Chris, I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR. thanks, Peter On 18/08/2020 01:30, Christian Hoppsprotocol= application/pgp-signature wrote: > This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after September 1st, 2020, for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ > > All authors, please indicate by sending an email to the list, whether you aware of any other IPR beyond what is already posted: > > [From https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo] > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3910/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3248/ > > Thanks, > Chris & Acee. > > From nobody Tue Aug 18 05:47:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1143A09A4; 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boundary="_000_ZRAP278MB0125BF3D5977184EBB6A929D895C0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_" Content-Language: en-US --_000_ZRAP278MB0125BF3D5977184EBB6A929D895C0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gyan, Thank you very much. Perfect we are in line. All ack on your comments. * With MPLS we are label swapping however with SR you are label stackin= g. So let's say you have an SR-TE path instantiated and using the strict E= RO path with adjacency SIDs defined, would just the active label being use= d in the forwarding plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus = the entire stack of labels. Correct. IE46 is only referencing the top label. We do not know these addit= ional dimensions for the other labels in the label stack. Same as all other= IE below, just as reference. 46 mplsTopLabelType 47 mplsTopLabelIPv4Address 70 mplsTopLabelStackSection 91 mplsTopLabelPrefixLength 140 mplsTopLabelIPv6Address 200 mplsTopLabelTTL 203 mplsTopLabelExp * What about IPFIX SRv6 support? Good point. draft-patki-srv6-ipfix-00 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pa= tki-srv6-ipfix-00) is covering the IPv6 data plane in IPFIX. SrSidType in d= raft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type relates to MPLS-SR and SRv6, IE46 only = to MPLS-SR. Best Wishes Thomas From: Gyan Mishra Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 10:40 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; spr= ing@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am well aware of the origins and history= behind IPFIX and Neflow and use with BGP monitoring. I was not aware of IE 46 and how that was being leveraged to support SR IGP= extensions sid types. After reviewing your IPFIX slides related to IE 46 registry for mplsTopLab= elType and this drafts solution to extend the IE 46 registry with SR and no= w requiring new IGP codepoints to be allocated. You had given an example in the LDP interworking example or others that wit= h this new IGP codepoint in case of multiple control planes present such as= both LDP and SR that with IPFIX and with the new IGP codepoint allocations= for each IGP type that you can see the forwarding resulting FIB entry. I = can see that as a benefit for monitoring telemetry In-line below addresses complexity of extending IE46 for SR support. On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 3:13 AM > wrote: Hi Gyan, Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that = end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. With= your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also = to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable = departure I think from what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to a= dd that layer of complexity into IPFIX. Thomas> I have seen your feedback to Tarek and was puzzled about your remar= k about data plane encapsulation and IPFIX. I think you have a limited pict= ure for what IPFIX has been intended and being used. I do not want to lecture, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflow and= IPFIX. At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic for BG= P control-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix attribu= te. These helped to account traffic in shared enviroments. Later also for datacenters. These was and is always = in conjunction with the encapsulated header metrics of forwarded traffic an= d device dimensions such as ingress interface, egress interface, vrf id and= vrf name. In order to have a proper picture about the forwarding plane, and to enable data correlation, key fie= lds from other perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-plane, device) are n= ecessary to enable data correlation with other protocols such as BMP and YA= NG. Thomas> Going back to the initial conversation. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5102#section-7.2 For ensuring extensibility of this information, IANA has created a new registry for MPLS label types and filled it with the initial list from the description Information Element #46, mplsTopLabelType. Thomas> When IPFIX was specified, it has been defined in mind that other MP= LS label protocols will be developed in the future. Which is the case with = RFC 8665, 8666, 8667 and 8669. All adding TLV's to carry segment routing SID's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors implemented= IE46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label protocol was IS-I= S SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptable. When new protoco= ls are developed, we at IETF must ensure that they can be properly monitored. With IPFIX we have the proper p= rotocol to do that. Even without modifications as section 4 in draft-ali-sp= ring-sr-traffic-accounting mentioned: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#secti= on-4 Thomas> You have been referring to complexity. One of the key objectives of= SR-MPLS was that it does not much change in the MPLS data plane. You need = to explain on this WG how SR differs from other MPLS label protocols in terms of RIB/FIB. And then from there why an implementation would be dif= ficult. That's the discussion I am looking forward to. Gyan> SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data plane so from that perspective is the s= ame but how it differs is with SR steering and MSD SID depth with SR-TE esp= ecially when strict ERO is defined with adjacency SID the label stack is ex= panded. With MPLS we are label swapping however with SR you are label stacking.= So let's say you have an SR-TE path instantiated and using the strict ERO= path with adjacency SIDs defined, would just the active label being used = in the forwarding plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus th= e entire stack of labels. In theory it appears that the IPFIX machinery is in place with IE 46 to sup= port SR as what you have proposed in the draft. As far as vendor compatibility as long as they support IE 46 th= ey should support SR-MPLS. I don't see any issues now as far as complexities to support as the we are = using existing machinery IPFIX IE 46 to extend for SR support. I think getting feedback from LSR is critical on their thoughts on complexi= ty and caveats with getting the codepoints assigned. What about IPFIX SRv6 support? Comment on Section 2 A typical use case scenario is to monitor MPLS control plane migrations from LDP to IS-IS or OSPF. By looking at the MPLS label value itself, it is not always clear as to which label protocol it belongs, since they could potentially share the same label allocation range. This is the case for IGP-Adjacency SID's and LDP as an example. SR SRGB label range is different then LDP label range. Best wishes Thomas From: Gyan Mishra > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas Responses in-line On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM > wrote: Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being si= gnalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or n= ot. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and= not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context. Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis and to that = end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsulation. With= your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be = used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to analyze and trou= bleshoot data plane forwarding. That is a considerable departure I think f= rom what IPFIX was intended. I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LA= N Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.= . With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabli= ng to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID= or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the adj= acency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much mo= re sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forwa= rd the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decis= ion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in s= egment routing networks more efficiently and quickly. > am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a better understanding wh= ere your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate= between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which label protocol the label was c= oming from and SrSidType which SID type was used. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being si= gnalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LA= N Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any= deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same pref= ix from different IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom whe= n we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key p= oint here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enabl= e the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considerat= ion. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation whe= re the protocol does not matter and this information is not available therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right= code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type = identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends t= he IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so wh= en OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX imp= lementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possibl= e to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types= are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make= sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This w= ith the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible = what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which labe= l protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type= to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and = learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this inf= ormation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matt= er and this information is not available therein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value = in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update... Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools..ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr _______________________________________________ OPSAWG mailing list OPSAWG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg -- [http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email] Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike Silver Spring, MD -- [http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email] Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike Silver Spring, MD --_000_ZRAP278MB0125BF3D5977184EBB6A929D895C0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Gyan,

     =

    Thank you very mu= ch. Perfect we are in line. All ack on your comments.

     =

    • With MPLS we are label swapping however with SR= you are label stacking.  So let’s say you have an SR-TE path in= stantiated and using the strict ERO path with adjacency SIDs defined,  would just the active label being used in the forwardi= ng plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus the entire stack = of labels.

     =

    Correct. IE46 is = only referencing the top label. We do not know these additional dimensions = for the other labels in the label stack. Same as all other IE below, just as reference.

     =

    46  &nb= sp;     mplsTopLabelType

    47  &nb= sp;     mplsTopLabelIPv4Address

    70  &nb= sp;     mplsTopLabelStackSection

    91  &nb= sp;     mplsTopLabelPrefixLength

    140  &n= bsp;    mplsTopLabelIPv6Address

    200  &n= bsp;    mplsTopLabelTTL

    203  &n= bsp;    mplsTopLabelExp

     =

    • What about IPFIX  SRv6 support?=

     =

    Good point. draft= -patki-srv6-ipfix-00 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-patki-srv6-ipfix-00= ) is covering the IPv6 data plane in IPFIX. SrSidType in draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type relates to MPLS-SR and SRv6, IE46 = only to MPLS-SR.

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     

    From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
    Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2020 10:40 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: hannes@gredler.at; ketant@cisco.com; lsr@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.o= rg; spring@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas 

     

    Sorry for any misunderstanding.  I am well awar= e of the origins and history behind IPFIX and Neflow and use with BGP monit= oring.  

     

    I was not aware of IE 46 and how that was being leve= raged to support SR IGP extensions sid types.

     

    After  reviewing your IPFIX slides related to I= E 46 registry for mplsTopLabelType and this drafts solution to extend the I= E 46 registry with SR and now requiring new IGP codepoints to be allocated.=  

     

    You had given an example in the LDP interworking exa= mple or others that with this new IGP codepoint in case of multiple control= planes present such as both LDP and SR that with IPFIX and with the new IG= P codepoint allocations for each IGP type that you can see the forwarding resulting FIB entry.  I can see = that as a benefit for monitoring telemetry 

     

    In-line  below addresses complexity of extendin= g IE46 for SR support.

     

    On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 3:13 AM <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com> wrote:












     

     

    Hi Gyan,

     

     

     

    Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been us= ed for flow analysis and to that end all that was required is support of th= e data plane encapsulation.  With your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX

    to be used for not just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also = to analyze and troubleshoot data plane forwarding.  That is a consider= able departure I think from what IPFIX was intended.  I am not su= re we want to add that layer of complexity into

    IPFIX.

     

     

     

    Thomas> I have seen your feedback to Tarek and w= as puzzled about your remark about data plane encapsulation and IPFIX. I th= ink you have a limited picture for what IPFIX has been intended and being used. I do not want

    to lecture, but it might be useful to go back to the origins of Netflow and= IPFIX. At the beginning, the main reason for was to account traffic for BG= P control-plane dimensions. Such as BGP peer AS, src and dst prefix attribu= te. These helped to account traffic

    in shared enviroments. Later also for datacenters. These was and is always = in conjunction with the encapsulated header metrics of forwarded traffic an= d device dimensions such as ingress interface, egress interface, vrf id and= vrf name. In order to have a proper

    picture about the forwarding plane, and to enable data correlation, key fie= lds from other perspectives (control-plane, forwarding-plane, device) are n= ecessary to enable data correlation with other protocols such as BMP and YA= NG.

     

     

     

    Thomas> Going back to the initial conversa= tion. Section 7.2 of RFC 5102

     

    https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5102#section-7.2=

     

     

     

       For ensuring extensibility of this informati= on, IANA has created a

     

       new registry for MPLS label types and filled= it with the initial list

     

       from the description Information Element #46= , mplsTopLabelType.

     

     

     

    Thomas> When IPFIX was specified, it has b= een defined in mind that other MPLS label protocols will be developed in th= e future. Which is the case with RFC 8665, 8666, 8667 and 8669. All adding TLV's to carry segment routing

    SID's. In the presentation I gave, I showed one of many vendors implemented= IE46 and showing the wrong value. Event though the label protocol was IS-I= S SR TLV, the value shown was LDP. This is not acceptable. When new protoco= ls are developed, we at IETF must

    ensure that they can be properly monitored. With IPFIX we have the proper p= rotocol to do that. Even without modifications as section 4 in draft-ali-sp= ring-sr-traffic-accounting mentioned:



    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-spring-sr-traffic-accounting-01#secti= on-4

     

     

     

    Thomas> You have been referring to complex= ity. One of the key objectives of SR-MPLS was that it does not much change = in the MPLS data plane. You need to explain on this WG how SR differs from other MPLS label protocols

    in terms of RIB/FIB. And then from there why an implementation would= be difficult. That’s the discussion I am looking forward to.    <= o:p>

     

    Gyan> SR-MPLS reuses the MPLS data plane s= o from that  perspective is the same but how it differs is with SR ste= ering and MSD SID depth with SR-TE especially when strict ERO is defined with adjacency SID the label stack is expanded.=  

     

        With MPLS we are label swapping howeve= r with SR you are label stacking.  So let’s say you have an SR-T= E path instantiated and using the strict ERO path with adjacency SIDs defin= ed,  would just the active label being used in the forwarding plane be the one that IPFIX would be monitoring versus the entire stack of= labels.

    In theory it appears that the IPFIX machinery= is in place with IE 46 to support SR as what you have proposed in the draf= t.  

     

        As far as vendor compatibility as long= as they         support IE 46 they should support SR-M= PLS.

     

    I don’t see any issues now as far as complexit= ies to support as the we are using existing machinery IPFIX IE 46 to extend= for SR support.  

     

    I think getting feedback from LSR is critical on the= ir thoughts on complexity and caveats with getting the codepoints assigned.=

     

    What about IPFIX  SRv6 support?

     

    Comment on Section 2

     

     &nbs=
p; A typical use case scenario is to monitor MPLS control plane
     &n=
bsp; migrations from LDP to IS-IS or OSPF.  By looking at the MPLS lab=
el
       value itself, it is not always clear as to which label p=
rotocol it
       belongs, since they could potentially share the =
same label allocation
       range.  This is the case for IGP=
-Adjacency SID's and LDP as an
       example.
    SR SRGB la=
bel range is different then LDP label range.

          

     

    Best wishes

     

    Thomas

     

     

     

    From: Gyan= Mishra <haya= busagsm@gmail.com>




    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 9:26 PM


    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>


    Cc: hannes@gr= edler.at; ketant@cisco.com;= lsr@ietf.org; opsa= wg@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org

    Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Thomas 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Responses in-line 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 2:02 AM <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com> wrote:

     

     

     

     

     

































     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Ketan,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment = types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    To be precise, the existing MPL= S Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE.

    Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Pr= efix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    It is important to distinguish = between intend and result.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    If you migrate from one label d= istribution protocol to another, a network operator

    want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding





    packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or n= ot. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and= not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3,





    https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3,





    describes the context.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Gyan> IPFIX has been traditionally been used for flow analysis = and to that end all that was required is support of the data plane encapsul= ation.  With your proposed SR support idea you are really transforming the IPFIX to be used for not

    just flow monitoring at that level solely, but now also to analyze and trou= bleshoot data plane forwarding.  That is a considerable departure I th= ink from what IPFIX was intended.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am not sure we want to add that layer of complexity into IPFIX.<= o:p>

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a = Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Quote from RFC8402. "Segme= nt Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm".

    Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding





    decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels.= . With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabli= ng to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacenc= y SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not





    very useful because the difference of the two is the topology among the adj= acency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with Prefix SID", that mak= es much more sense. Since it describes that a particular adjacency is chose= n to forward the packet instead of a prefix.





    If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decis= ion lead to the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in s= egment routing networks more efficiently and quickly.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Ø 





    am asking for WG to weigh the implementation co= mplexities

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    For the WG and me, I would be importa= nt if you can describe more detailed what you mean

    with





    implementation complexities. I would like to ha= ve a better understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciat= e if you could differentiate between





    MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Best wishes

     

     

     

    Thomas

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    From: Keta= n Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>














    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM








    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>;

    hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:     lsr@ietf.org;

    spring@ietf.org    ; o= psawg@ietf.org








    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type    <= /o:p>

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I should have been more clear in my email.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The proposal/suggestion is to add the followi= ng to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identifier registry:

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • SR Prefix SID


    • SR Adjacency SID


    • SR Binding SID


    • SR BGP Peering SID


    • … and so on

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS= segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    And my questions were:

     

     

     



     

     

     



    1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Pr= efix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?


    2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a = Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am asking for WG to weigh the implementatio= n complexities and overheads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments = in IPFIX against the benefit (if any)

    that they provide for the





    flow analysis and monitoring.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks,

     

     

     

    Ketan

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    From:







    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com     <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>














    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40








    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>;





    hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:     lsr@ietf.org;







    spring@ietf.org    ; o= psawg@ietf.org








    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type    <= /o:p>

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Ketan,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thank you very much for the rev= iew and feedback.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • What or how much value be there on determining whether= a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS<= br>




      – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hard= ly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the sam= e prefix from different IGPs.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labe= lling protocols are used  in networks when migrations

    are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from





    LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom whe= n we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key p= oint here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enabl= e the possibility to verify the





    label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considerat= ion.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in so= me implementation where the protocol does not matter and this information




      is not available therein.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am not sure if you have seen the presentatio= n in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.

     

     

     

    https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-= 108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which im= plemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There

    is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified.





    Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.    <= /p>

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I do understand your point that= not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46.

    But that’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry.





    The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementa= tion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been= made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense





    and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends t= he IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so wh= en OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX imp= lementation can point to the right





    code point.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     



    • On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via b= oth BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In this case the IE 46 shows the labe= l protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



     

     

     









    • For that table proposal, it= is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different between Pref= ix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements= and we can





      be sure more get added.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I fully agree. As a network ope= rator its still hard to understand the architecture

    and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities





    are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make= sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This w= ith the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible = what makes sense. I would be interested





    to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In above mentioned slides I described= how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility

    in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This





    should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which labe= l protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type= to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I hope this makes all sense. Lo= oking forward for reply.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Best wishes

     

     

     

    Thomas

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>














    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM








    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>;





    hannes@gredler.at








    Cc:     lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <spri= ng@ietf.org>








    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    < also copying Spring WG for their review/= inputs >

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Thomas/All,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I have reviewed the draft and would like to s= hare a different perspective.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    What or how much value be there on determinin= g whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSP= Fv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important

    is that it is a





    Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and = learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this inf= ormation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not matt= er and this information is not





    available therein.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be lea= rnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?<= /p>

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adj= acency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MP= LS Label Type.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This also takes away the need for the second = table that is being proposed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it= is very difficult and in some cases not

    possible to different





    between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value = in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Could we evaluate the implementation overhead= and complexity of this level of categorization/information in IPFIX agains= t their value in flow analysis to perhaps

    consider a middle ground?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks,

     

     

     

    Ketan

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Hi Hannes,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks a lot for the feedback. = Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the

    next update...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Best Wishes

     

     

     

    Thomas

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thomas,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations)= .

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite= popular in DC deployments.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    thanks,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    /hannes

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11,







    Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com     wrote:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Dear lsr,

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I presented the following draft

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Inf= ormation in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    at the spring working group at IETF 108 yeste= rday

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption= .

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This draft adds additional segment routing co= de points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS,

    OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain





    further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I have been asked to not only gather feedback= from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls

    working groups since these code points are related to link





    state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am looking forward to your feedback and inp= ut.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Best Wishes

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thomas Graf

     

     

     

     

     

     

    _______________________________________________








    Lsr mailing list








    Ls= r@ietf.org








    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     













    _______________________________________________





    OPSAWG mailing list





    OPSAWG@ietf.org




    https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    --

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Gyan Mishra

     

    Network Solutions Architect 

     

    M 301 502-1347


    13101 Columbia Pike 


    Silver Spring, MD

     



     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    --

    <= span style=3D"color:#1155CC;text-decoration:none">

    Gyan = Mishra

    Network = Solutions Architect 

    M 301 50= 2-1347
    13101 Columbia Pike 
    Silver Spring, MD<= /p>

     

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--_000_ZRAP278MB0125F39119B8ABBF7F2A2ACD895C0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the feedback. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? Thomas> I am open to this approach to change IE46 to include segment types = for RFC8402. I understand your concern to add additional fields. I would ap= preciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? Thomas> "admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over anot= her from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an = examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... Thomas> Correct [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? Thomas> See feedback above. [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thomas> Absolutely. I fully agree on your feedback. We need to have the min= imum possible in order to have a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Si= nce IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentation= , we need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields. Best Wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, Please check inline below. From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. [KT] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the tra= ffic forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the netw= ork. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling= to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two= is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with P= refix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particula= r adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, = ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead t= o the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment rou= ting networks more efficiently and quickly. [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? * am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thanks, Ketan Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_ZRAP278MB0125F39119B8ABBF7F2A2ACD895C0ZRAP278MB0125CHEP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Ketan,

     

    Thank you very mu= ch for the feedback.

     =

    [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 4= 6) to add SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID … (basicall= y the segment types from RFC8402)? It’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, coll= ectors and analysers?

    Thomas> I am o= pen to this approach to change IE46 to include segment types for RFC8402. I= understand your concern to add additional fields. I would appreciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go.=

     =

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

    Thomas> "= admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over another = from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option.

     =

    [KT] From the document, I= believe we are still talking only about the top of the stack label …=

    Thomas> Correc= t

     =

    [KT] My point is why do w= e need to introduce another ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 = as suggested above?

    Thomas> See fe= edback above.

     =

     =

    [KT] To be clear, I am no= t talking from the POV of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my fe= edback and perspective:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more co= ntrol plane elements and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that add= itional context/information to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks= this info (traditionally from the “FIB”). This added informati= on should have a strong enough justification of benefit – e.g. How do= es difference between Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” = of flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determ= ined and reported by routers.

     =

    Thomas> Absolu= tely. I fully agree on your feedback. We need to have the minimum possible = in order to have a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Since IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentat= ion, we need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields.=

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hanne= s@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    Please check inline below.

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     

    • This helps = identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating= them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     =

    To be precise, th= e existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not= the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

    [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 4= 6) to add SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID … (basicall= y the segment types from RFC8402)? It’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, coll= ectors and analysers?

     

    • What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via= OSPF or ISIS?

     

    It is important t= o distinguish between intend and result.

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

     

    If you migrate fr= om one label distribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to= understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or = not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic an= d not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

    [KT] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whe= ther the traffic forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link= in the network.

     

    • What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency= SID?

     =

    Quote from RFC840= 2. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". = Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels= .

    [KT] From the document, I= believe we are still talking only about the top of the stack label …=

     

    With IPFIX SrSidT= ype we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the r= esult of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference= of the two is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adja= cency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it descr= ibes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we und= erstand that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables to n= arrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficiently a= nd quickly.

    [KT] My point is why do w= e need to introduce another ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 = as suggested above?

     =

    • = am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities

     =

    For the WG and me= , I would be important if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementa= tion complexities. I would like to have a better understanding where your f= ear is coming from. I would appreciate if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

    [KT] To be clear, I am no= t talking from the POV of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my fe= edback and perspective:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more co= ntrol plane elements and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that add= itional context/information to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks= this info (traditionally from the “FIB”). This added informati= on should have a strong enough justification of benefit – e.g. How do= es difference between Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” = of flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determ= ined and reported by routers.

     

    Thanks,=

    Ketan

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas,

     

    I should have been more clear in my email.

     

    The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Lab= el type identifier registry:

    • SR Prefix S= ID
    • SR Adjacency SID
    • SR Binding SID<= /li>
    • SR BGP = Peering SID
    • … and so on

     

    This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

     

    And my questions were:

    1. What value = is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via= OSPF or ISIS?
    2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency= SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overh= eads with the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the ben= efit (if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     

    Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

     =

    • What or how= much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/p= rogrammed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Har= dly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the sa= me prefix from different IGPs.

     

    As Jeff already pointed out. Mul= tiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks when migrations ar= e ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom wh= en we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The key = point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we enab= le the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the considera= tion.

     

    • IPFIX may b= e picking this information from a FIB in some implementation where the prot= ocol does not matter and this information is not available therein.

     

    I am not sure if you have seen t= he presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.

    https://www.ie= tf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-typ= e-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf

     

    Slide 2 shows Cisco as example v= endor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. There is an open= ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.=

     

    I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an IPFIX implementa= tion can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the decision has been= made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just extends = the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code points so w= hen OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the IPFIX im= plementation can point to the right code point.

     

    • On some nod= es, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what wou= ld we use/show?

     =

    In this case the = IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     =

    • = For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possibl= e to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types= are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added.
      • =

     =

    I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     =

    In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     =

    I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

     

    Best wishes

    Thomas

     

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

     

    Hi Thomas/All,

     

    I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspec= tive.

     

    What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what ma= tters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and= learning the same prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this in= formation from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not mat= ter and this information is not available therein.

     

    On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= – what would we use/show?

     

    I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding S= ID, SR BGP Peering SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

     

    This also takes away the need for the second table that is being prop= osed to a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and i= n some cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control p= lane elements and we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value= in differentiation between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?

     

    Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this = level of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow an= alysis to perhaps consider a middle ground?

     

    Thanks,

    Ketan

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    To: hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Hannes,

     

    Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     

     

    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Thomas,

     

    I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA C= onsiderations).

     

    Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it= ’s quite popular in DC deployments.

     

    thanks,

     

    /hannes

     

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

     

    Dear lsr,

     

    I presented the following draft=

     

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

    at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

     

    and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

     

    This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

     

    I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     

    I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas Graf

    _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org<= /a>
    https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

     

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7e6ea54f-8fb8-4535-34b0-08d843823acc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 14:23:08.1806 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: lIPqtTOLkl1gNefoMfzTC7Vk+ldJmN/3M3KGxr0/GPClcNhCrzHEh3p798vdPP8y0DBXWFz0yE2GP7lvYJAbUA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR1101MB2173 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.11, xch-aln-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:23:18 -0000 --_000_MW3PR11MB45701AD46D77ED33C31BFC4BC15C0MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thomas, Thanks for your response. Let us also wait for inputs from others in the WG= s. One small bit. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? Thomas> "admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over anot= her from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an = examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option. KT2> The proposal to extend IE46 will cover the "sr-prefer" scenario and in= dicate whether the forwarding is happening with SR or LDP label. IMHO OSPF = SR vs ISIS SR is perhaps not as useful? Also, from an operational perspective (looking holistically), we have LSP p= ing/trace tools specified for MPLS (including SR segments/labels) to verify= /validate consistency between forwarding and control plane to determine whi= ch protocol/label is being used and lot's more details. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 18 August 2020 18:28 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the feedback. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? Thomas> I am open to this approach to change IE46 to include segment types = for RFC8402. I understand your concern to add additional fields. I would ap= preciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? Thomas> "admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over anot= her from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an = examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... Thomas> Correct [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? Thomas> See feedback above. [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thomas> Absolutely. I fully agree on your feedback. We need to have the min= imum possible in order to have a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Si= nce IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentation= , we need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields. Best Wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, Please check inline below. From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, * This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well a= s differentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. To be precise, the existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from = LDP, RSVP-TE. Not the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed. [KT] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR= Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID ... (basically the segment ty= pes from RFC8402)? It's a simpler change to an existing element/field that = makes it easier for routers, collectors and analysers? * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? It is important to distinguish between intend and result. [KT] By giving different types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troub= leshoot routing preference selection (done based on "admin distance" betwee= n protocol selection in RIB)? If you migrate from one label distribution protocol to another, a network o= perator want's to understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets = with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or not. IE46= enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic and not at = the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section= -3, describes the context. [KT] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the tra= ffic forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the netw= ork. * What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? Quote from RFC8402. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing para= digm". Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decision= s, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels. [KT] From the document, I believe we are still talking only about the top o= f the stack label ... With IPFIX SrSidType we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling= to analyze the result of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference of the two= is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adjacency SID with P= refix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it describes that a particula= r adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, = ForwardingStatus is drop, we understand that result of that decision lead t= o the drop and this enables to narrow down forwarding issues in segment rou= ting networks more efficiently and quickly. [KT] My point is why do we need to introduce another ElementID and why not = use the existing Type 46 as suggested above? * am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities For the WG and me, I would be important if you can describe more detailed w= hat you mean with implementation complexities. I would like to have a bette= r understanding where your fear is coming from. I would appreciate if you c= ould differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46, from which lab= el protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SID type was used= . [KT] To be clear, I am not talking from the POV of a specific implementatio= n. Let me summarize my feedback and perspective: * Carefully consider the addition of more control plane elements and nu= ances into IPFIX since they require all that additional context/information= to be made available at the "layer" (or component) from where IPFIX picks = this info (traditionally from the "FIB"). This added information should hav= e a strong enough justification of benefit - e.g. How does difference betwe= en Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter? How relevant it is to determine if the = SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS? * Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amount= and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need to= note that there may be many more/other sources for "off-box enrichment" of= flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determin= ed and reported by routers. Thanks, Ketan Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Thomas, I should have been more clear in my email. The proposal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label typ= e identifier registry: * SR Prefix SID * SR Adjacency SID * SR Binding SID * SR BGP Peering SID * ... and so on This helps identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as diff= erentiating them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc. And my questions were: 1. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was be= ing signalled via OSPF or ISIS? 2. What value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID o= r a LAN Adjacency SID? I am asking for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads w= ith the proposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (= if any) that they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring. Thanks, Ketan From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com > Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40 To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >; = hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Ketan, Thank you very much for the review and feedback. * What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SI= D was signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters = and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments wo= uld be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differe= nt IGPs. As Jeff already pointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used in = networks when migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating fr= om LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swisscom = when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The ke= y point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we en= able the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking = the label value into the consideration. * IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementati= on where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available= therein. I am not sure if you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and S= PRING. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpl= s-sr-label-type-information-in-ipfix-00.pdf Slide 2 shows Cisco as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label T= ype identifier. There is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been cla= rified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details. I do understand your point that not all the vendors are capable to implemen= t IE 46. But that's not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE regis= try enables that an IPFIX implementation can refer to the right code point.= With RFC 5102 the decision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier m= ake sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type just= extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code po= ints so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, the= IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point. * On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP= - what would we use/show? In this case the IE 46 shows the label protocol which was used to program t= he FIB. * For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not p= ossible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these= types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get added. I fully agree. As a network operator its still hard to understand the archi= tecture and constraints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are d= iscussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what make sens= e. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This with t= he aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible what = makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback. In above mentioned slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit = of visibility in the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be = a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which label protocol= was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID type to furthe= r understand the intend why this label is being pushed. I hope this makes all sense. Looking forward for reply. Best wishes Thomas From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF >; hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG > Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type < also copying Spring WG for their review/inputs > Hi Thomas/All, I have reviewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective. What or how much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was = signalled/programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS - what matters and is= more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be= running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from different IGP= s. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FIB in some implementation = where the protocol does not matter and this information is not available th= erein. On some nodes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP - wha= t would we use/show? I would recommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR= BGP Peering SID and so on ... for the MPLS Label Type. This also takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed t= o a large extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some= cases not possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. M= any of these types are control plane elements and we can be sure more get a= dded. Is there really much value in differentiation between say an Adjacenc= y SID and LAN Adjacency SID? Could we evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level = of categorization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis= to perhaps consider a middle ground? Thanks, Ketan From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52 To: hannes@gredler.at Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Hi Hannes, Thanks a lot for the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it fo= r the next update.. Best Wishes Thomas From: Hannes Gredler > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF > Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type Thomas, I have one comment/suggestion to Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations). Please add also a code point for BGP Prefix-SID - it's quite popular in DC = deployments. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 thanks, /hannes On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote: Dear lsr, I presented the following draft Export of MPLS Segment Routing Label Type Information in IP Flow Informatio= n Export (IPFIX) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type-04 at the spring working group at IETF 108 yesterday https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-spring-ip-flow-infor= mation-export-ipfix-00.pdf and today at OPSAWG where I call for adoption. This draft adds additional segment routing code points for in the IANA IPFI= X registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 and OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to g= ain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane. I have been asked to not only gather feedback from spring and opsawg but al= so from lsr and mpls working groups since these code points are related to = link state routing protocols and mpls data plane. I am looking forward to your feedback and input. Best Wishes Thomas Graf _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_MW3PR11MB45701AD46D77ED33C31BFC4BC15C0MW3PR11MB4570namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Thomas= ,

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks fo= r your response. Let us also wait for inputs from others in the WGs.

    &nbs= p;

    One small= bit.

    &nbs= p;

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

    Thomas> "= admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over another = from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option.

    KT2> T= he proposal to extend IE46 will cover the “sr-prefer” scenario = and indicate whether the forwarding is happening with SR or LDP label. IMHO= OSPF SR vs ISIS SR is perhaps not as useful?

    &nbs= p;

    Also, fro= m an operational perspective (looking holistically), we have LSP ping/trace= tools specified for MPLS (including SR segments/labels) to verify/validate= consistency between forwarding and control plane to determine which protocol/label is being used and lot̵= 7;s more details.

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks,

    Ketan

    &nbs= p;

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 18 August 2020 18:28
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredl= er.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very mu= ch for the feedback.

     =

    [KT= ] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR Pr= efix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID … (basically the segment t= ypes from RFC8402)? It’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, collectors = and analysers?

    Thomas> I am open to this app= roach to change IE46 to include segment types for RFC8402. I understand you= r concern to add additional fields. I would appreciate feedback from the wg if that is the path we like to go.<= /p>

     

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

    Thomas> "= admin distance" is one reason why one path is considered over another = from two different protocols. In case of LDP vs IS-IS, in IOS-XR as an examples, it is "sr-prefer" configuration option.

     =

    [KT] From the document, I= believe we are still talking only about the top of the stack label …=

    Thomas> Correc= t

     =

    [KT] My point is why do w= e need to introduce another ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 = as suggested above?

    Thomas> See fe= edback above.

     =

     =

    [KT] To be clear, I am no= t talking from the POV of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my fe= edback and perspective:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more co= ntrol plane elements and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that add= itional context/information to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks= this info (traditionally from the “FIB”). This added informati= on should have a strong enough justification of benefit – e.g. How do= es difference between Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” = of flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determ= ined and reported by routers.

     =

    Thomas> Absolu= tely. I fully agree on your feedback. We need to have the minimum possible = in order to have a clear view about the MPL-SR forwarding. Since IPFIX using UDP for transport, without the possibility of fragmentat= ion, we need to be careful as well not to add many more dimension's/fields.=

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 8:51 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas= ,

    &nbs= p;

    Please ch= eck inline below.

    &nbs= p;

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 11:31
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    • This helps identification = of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiating them from LDP,= RSVP-TE, etc.

     =

    To be precise, th= e existing MPLS Label Type identifier differentiates from LDP, RSVP-TE. Not= the new SrSidType IPFIX IE being proposed.

    [KT= ] Why not extend the existing IPFIX MPLS Label Type (value 46) to add SR Pr= efix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID … (basically the segment t= ypes from RFC8402)? It’s a simpler change to an existing element/field that makes it easier for routers, collectors = and analysers?

    &nbs= p;

    • What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?

    &nbs= p;

    It is important t= o distinguish between intend and result.

    [KT] By giving different = types for OSPF and ISIS, is the intention to troubleshoot routing preferenc= e selection (done based on “admin distance” between protocol se= lection in RIB)?

    &nbs= p;

    If you migrate fr= om one label distribution protocol to another, a network operator want's to= understand if the data plane is still forwarding packets with the label distribution protocol which needs to be removed or = not. IE46 enables that by looking at the result of the forwarded traffic an= d not at the intend. RFC 8661 section 3, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8661#section-3, describes the context.

    [KT= ] Sure, so adding the SR Segments to IE46, one can check whether the traffi= c forwarding is happening using LDP or SR labels at any link in the network= .

     

    • What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID?

     =

    Quote from RFC840= 2. "Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm". = Means that not the routing protocol does all the forwarding decisions, the node can change the forwarding by pushing additional labels= .

    [KT] From the document, I= believe we are still talking only about the top of the stack label …=

     

    With IPFIX SrSidT= ype we are able to cover this dimension in IPFIX. Enabling to analyze the r= esult of this decision. The example with " Adjacency SID or a LAN Adjacency SID" is not very useful because the difference= of the two is the topology among the adjacency. If you compare " Adja= cency SID with Prefix SID", that makes much more sense. Since it descr= ibes that a particular adjacency is chosen to forward the packet instead of a prefix. If IE 89, ForwardingStatus is drop, we und= erstand that result of that decision lead to the drop and this enables to n= arrow down forwarding issues in segment routing networks more efficiently a= nd quickly.

    [KT] My point is why do w= e need to introduce another ElementID and why not use the existing Type 46 = as suggested above?

     =

    • am asking for W= G to weigh the implementation complexities=

     =

    For the WG and me= , I would be important if you can describe more detailed what you mean with implementation complexiti= es. I would like to have a better understanding where your fear is coming f= rom. I would appreciate if you could differentiate between MPLS Label Type identifier, IE46,= from which label protocol the label was coming from and SrSidType which SI= D type was used.

    [KT] To be clear, I am no= t talking from the POV of a specific implementation. Let me summarize my fe= edback and perspective:

    • Carefully consider the addition of more co= ntrol plane elements and nuances into IPFIX since they require all that add= itional context/information to be made available at the “layer” (or component) from where IPFIX picks= this info (traditionally from the “FIB”). This added informati= on should have a strong enough justification of benefit – e.g. How do= es difference between Adj SID and LAN Adj SID matter?  How relevant it is to determine if the SR signaling protocol is OSPF or ISIS?
    • Try to add/extend existing elements/fields with just the right amoun= t and sufficient information that is necessary for flow analysis. We need t= o note that there may be many more/other sources for “off-box enrichment” = of flow information collected and perhaps not everything needs to be determ= ined and reported by routers.

     

    Thanks,=

    Ketan

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 7:09 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Thomas= ,

    &nbs= p;

    I should = have been more clear in my email.

    &nbs= p;

    The propo= sal/suggestion is to add the following to the IPFIX MPLS Label type identif= ier registry:

    • SR Prefix SID
    • SR Adjacency SID=
    • SR = Binding SID
    • SR BGP Peering SID
    • … and so on

    &nbs= p;

    This help= s identification of specific SR-MPLS segment types as well as differentiati= ng them from LDP, RSVP-TE, etc.

    &nbs= p;

    And my qu= estions were:

    1. What value is provided for= IPFIX analysis if the SR Prefix SID was being signalled via OSPF or ISIS?
    2. Wha= t value is provided for IPFIX analysis if it was a Adjacency SID or a LAN A= djacency SID?

    &nbs= p;

    I am aski= ng for WG to weigh the implementation complexities and overheads with the p= roposed details of SR-MPLS segments in IPFIX against the benefit (if any) t= hat they provide for the flow analysis and monitoring.

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks,

    Ketan

    &nbs= p;

    From: Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Sent: 15 August 2020 09:40
    To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org=
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Ketan,

     =

    Thank you very mu= ch for the review and feedback.

     =

    • What or how much value be = there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled/programmed on a = node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is more important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments w= ould be running multiple protocols and learning the same prefix from differ= ent IGPs.

    &nbs= p;

    As Jeff already p= ointed out. Multiple IGP labelling protocols are used  in networks whe= n migrations are ongoing. Usually in a life cycle. Migrating from LDP to OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV. This is/was also the case at Swissc= om when we first discovered this shortcoming in vendor implementations. The= key point here, with these additional IPFIX MPLS Label Type identifiers we= enable the possibility to verify the label protocol migration without taking the label value into the consi= deration.

    &nbs= p;

    • IPFIX may be picking this = information from a FIB in some implementation where the protocol does not m= atter and this information is not available therein.

    &nbs= p;

    I am not sure if = you have seen the presentation in IETF 108 at OPSAWG and SPRING.=

    https://www.ietf.org/procee= dings/108/slides/slides-108-opsawg-export-of-mpls-sr-label-type-information= -in-ipfix-00.pdf

    &nbs= p;

    Slide 2 shows Cis= co as example vendor which implemented IE 46, MPLS Label Type identifier. T= here is an open ddts where vendor feasibility has been clarified. Ping me off the list when you like to have more details.

     =

    I do understand y= our point that not all the vendors are capable to implement IE 46. But that= ’s not the point about the IPFIX IE registry. The IE registry enables that an I= PFIX implementation can refer to the right code point. With RFC 5102 the de= cision has been made that MPLS Label Type identifier make sense and can be implemented. draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type ju= st extends the IE 46 registry with the Segment Routing label protocol code = points so when OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS SR TLV is used, and IE 46 is supported, t= he IPFIX implementation can point to the right code point.

    &nbs= p;

    • On some nodes, the same Pr= efix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what would we use/show?=

     

    In this case the IE 46 shows the= label protocol which was used to program the FIB.

     

    • For that table = proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases not possible to different = between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control pl= ane elements and we can be sure more get added.

     =

    I fully agree. As= a network operator its still hard to understand the architecture and const= raints within a router. When monitoring capabilities are discussed at IETF, this is the usual topic. What is possible, what mak= e sense. By purpose, all available SID types are listed in the draft. This = with the aim to start the discussion in the working groups what is possible= what makes sense. I would be interested to get your and also Jeff's feedback.

     =

    In above mentione= d slides I described how TI-LFA application would benefit of visibility in = the FIB by showing where Adj-SID was used. This should be a simple example why it make sense not only to look at which lab= el protocol was used to forward a particular packet, but also which SID typ= e to further understand the intend why this label is being pushed.

     =

    I hope this makes= all sense. Looking forward for reply.

     =

    Best wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     =

    From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
    Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 7:35 PM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>; hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; SPRING WG <= spring@ietf.org>
    Subject: RE: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    < also= copying Spring WG for their review/inputs >

    &nbs= p;

    Hi Thomas= /All,

    &nbs= p;

    I have re= viewed the draft and would like to share a different perspective.

    &nbs= p;

    What or h= ow much value be there on determining whether a SR Prefix SID was signalled= /programmed on a node via OSPFv2/OSPFv3/ISIS – what matters and is mo= re important is that it is a Prefix SID. Hardly any deployments would be running multiple protocols and learning the same = prefix from different IGPs. IPFIX may be picking this information from a FI= B in some implementation where the protocol does not matter and this inform= ation is not available therein.

    &nbs= p;

    On some n= odes, the same Prefix SID may be learnt via both BGP and IGP – what w= ould we use/show?

    &nbs= p;

    I would r= ecommend using SR Prefix SID, SR Adjacency SID, SR Binding SID, SR BGP Peer= ing SID and so on … for the MPLS Label Type.

    &nbs= p;

    This also= takes away the need for the second table that is being proposed to a large= extent. For that table proposal, it is very difficult and in some cases no= t possible to different between Prefix and Node and Anycast SID. Many of these types are control plane elements a= nd we can be sure more get added. Is there really much value in differentia= tion between say an Adjacency SID and LAN Adjacency SID?<= /p>

    &nbs= p;

    Could we = evaluate the implementation overhead and complexity of this level of catego= rization/information in IPFIX against their value in flow analysis to perha= ps consider a middle ground?

    &nbs= p;

    Thanks,

    Ketan

    &nbs= p;

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@iet= f.org> On Behalf Of Thomas.Graf= @swisscom.com
    Sent: 31 July 2020 20:52
    To: hannes@gredler.at
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Hi Hannes,

     =

    Thanks a lot for = the feedback. Yes, makes completely sense. Will take it for the next update= ..

     =

    Best Wishes<= /o:p>

    Thomas=

     

     =

    From: Hannes Gredler <hannes@= gredler.at>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
    To: Graf Thomas, INI-NET-DCF <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] draft-tgraf-ipfix-mpls-sr-label-type

     

    Thomas,

     

    I have one comment/suggestion t= o Paragraph 4 (IANA Considerations).

     

    Please add also a code point fo= r BGP Prefix-SID - it’s quite popular in DC deployments.

     

    thanks,

     

    /hannes

    =  

    On 28.07.2020, at 10:11, Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com wrote:

     

    Dear lsr,

     

    I presented the following draft=

     

    Export of MPLS Segment Routing = Label Type Information in IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)

     

    at the spring working group at = IETF 108 yesterday

     

    and today at OPSAWG where I cal= l for adoption.

     

    This draft adds additional segm= ent routing code points for in the IANA IPFIX registry for IS-IS, OPSFv2 an= d OPSF v3 and segment routing SID types to gain further insights into the MPLS-SR forwarding-plane.

     

    I have been asked to not only g= ather feedback from spring and opsawg but also from lsr and mpls working gr= oups since these code points are related to link state routing protocols and mpls data plane.

     

    I am looking forward to your fe= edback and input.

     

    Best Wishes

    Thomas Graf

    ___________________________________= ____________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=

     

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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 22sm21814986pgd.59.2020.08.18.07.44.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_83F3AE65-B961-4582-9C7B-86B9024C4488" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:44:28 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Christian Hopps , lsr@ietf.org, lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org To: Peter Psenak References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:44:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_83F3AE65-B961-4582-9C7B-86B9024C4488 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Peter, > section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >=20 > Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >=20 > We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be = mixed with other delay values (max, average). The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional = Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= , leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open = to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you = always want to take the min. So type 33 seems like a better match. >=20 >=20 > section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >=20 > Type Description Encoding > Reference > --------------------------------------------------------- > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >=20 And it also says: 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 = This does not help. > So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no = issue adding the text you proposed below. What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of = specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. > BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you = were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you = were, as you did not indicate otherwise. My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not = something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo = draft. I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but = important clarification. You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least = one more spin is required. Sorry, Tony --Apple-Mail=_83F3AE65-B961-4582-9C7B-86B9024C4488 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Hi Peter,


    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:

    Min Unidirectional Link Delay = as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We = explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixed = with other delay values (max, average).


    The problem is that that does not exactly match = =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. Without a = clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s = a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min.  So type = 33 seems like a better match.



    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type   Description =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Encoding
    =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =       Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link = Delay    RFC8570



    And it also says:

    33      Unidirectional Link Delay            RFC8570


    This does not = help.


    So, IMHO what = we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding the = text you proposed below.


    What you have now is = ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of specifications, to be = precise and clear.  We are not there yet.


    BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo = draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app = in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise.


    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.


    Anyway, I consider this as a = pure editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to = object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft.


    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I = think that this is trivially resolved, but important = clarification.

    You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so = at least one more spin is required.

    Sorry,
    Tony

    = --Apple-Mail=_83F3AE65-B961-4582-9C7B-86B9024C4488-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 07:58:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0163A0BF9; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:58:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2YNti_9dGiDS; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54F5A3A0BED; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id 6so15341934qtt.0; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:58:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=68wPxFZGeCTiAzOpPu7BktmgQowyAHKB7Bi9ht1XSX4=; b=O3ed6HGKXJCBqHB3VIFijPIXJnfU8y+n9OD6abvukxHqOyZoHQmU0l/4w7NKvzeiPm x6npIkPJqECsEEKTvAkdWf245OQqFxL33jG/TOQ8NIIZqJgU+1cAwUq19JEBCCKzIUct 31ZfiKdtuVpvbvy935iCvOL0r0ZoIwN4PK0IIOASc9W7VBSf81z3XeTIRrUNLdZZH8nF tmbk1UlqveUy4wzwFdWni5FgyfJ+lJubac1FZrpT2ODBBcXOw/bN74nL9EpH10RBtSFH 61KZz9YbDNcARQswN/beRaHlKF5+xF7faveJItCXV4Z3WElBnaJ3S5gFxXWQ5eraDfYE m2eA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=68wPxFZGeCTiAzOpPu7BktmgQowyAHKB7Bi9ht1XSX4=; b=RjffMeqt5OgrAQrRmXK5EyezVikQbqFL4XJ9THdaVg/l/rrXEAUEZ13Ea6vwf9i2AK SCEcxhcGnjAVmM/ed3sXscdRs7VWTKZ+/2Riwxgk+yoTb18FM2CkxA2NoU9vrwfAAIO0 u/7itUKdFOWDcodU1OtEFoTXOkJiSfn4m7rHARBgwyLvtUITQKKeLZPvZMgOs1zosrXH eG2+EeyjZIsoB0DoQRevohkU//A28dEoEkkpnR7EvRH2tevpbahHAB0b6yTvr9RH+BMI aGa7+b5ag7qVyRSXIEuG6lRdZ0hwivA0ARM5Jg8s4vp9TEzHLWuAOQkeDXci2VYjuWwd NrwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532teAyo6y1Hrup8r7QdgN/6MeU2OlEH3MpMzOlmmA1szyW1HlFE oUuImK7kkW5YVfdGhZs3PXOrWwcOpDcec0xNSm4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyQXSH3KmvaIYJWlakcZT/dpiyGIqCApYYf1ZJp+fjXdngVU89v5jsxSyhgcXg29Pxyuu4W2aJDnMFXHbaAaOc= X-Received: by 2002:aed:36c7:: with SMTP id f65mr18787094qtb.39.1597762716212; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 07:58:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8E50EFAE-2019-44AD-B097-0556E3E41180@cisco.com> From: Ning So Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:58:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "draft-chen-isis-ttz@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000022a21305ad281f6e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Poll for "IS-IS Topology-Transparent Zone" - draft-chen-isis-ttz.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:58:39 -0000 --00000000000022a21305ad281f6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am not aware of any IPRs associated with the draft. Ning On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:24 AM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > > > > The IETF IPRs declarations submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified > here: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4029/ > > > > > > Are you aware of any other IPR that applies to draft-chen-isis-ttz? > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > > response has been received from each author and contributor. > > > > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > -- Ning So 972-955-0914 --00000000000022a21305ad281f6e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I am not aware of any IPRs associated=C2=A0with the draft.=

    Ning

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:24 AM Acee Lindem (= acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Authors,

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    The IETF IPRs declara= tions submitted for draft-chen-isis-ttz are specified here:

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/ipr/4029/

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Are you aware of any = other IPR that applies to=C2=A0draft-chen-isis-ttz?

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If so, has this IPR b= een disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=C2=A0<= /p>

    (see RFCs 3979, 4879,= 3669 and 5378 for more details).

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are listed as = a document author or contributor please respond

    to this email regardl= ess of whether or not you are aware of any

    relevant IPR. *The re= sponse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

    list.* The document w= ill not advance to the next stage until a

    response has been rec= eived from each author and contributor.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    If you are on the LSR= WG email list but are not listed as an author or

    contributor, then ple= ase explicitly respond only if you are aware of

    any IPR that has not = yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

    =C2=A0<= /span>

    Thanks,=

    Acee



    --
    Ning So
    972-955-= 0914
    --00000000000022a21305ad281f6e-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 08:29:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE79F3A0CFA; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 08:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hnUKJ84ajPRu; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 08:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7506A3A0CF9; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 08:29:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2243; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597764550; x=1598974150; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yIYreVCCJByhgYalmdWNB7ckJFqnS9AX3rI8MwurmbI=; b=Z9cxHuo+UK41l1xUhm2c3WU/Sbh7SHTvRzg6wYtLwNtKon2qd169ykiP UtNnWw6Ow2akmNRtGLEPiVIATQZucjPjV5OmWpx/HXWcVZxXHs4ExonbP Bexej9WNm043hCnHZYDBHtVUSItl/04zk86kw5SAru3FbSiBj1hH95uoj o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,327,1592870400"; d="scan'208";a="26415716" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 18 Aug 2020 15:29:09 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.51] (ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com [10.60.140.51]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 07IFT872020707; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:29:08 GMT To: tony.li@tony.li Cc: Christian Hopps , lsr@ietf.org, lsr-ads@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" , draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <140c26ac-6113-b1ff-92d8-92583665d550@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:29:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.51, ams-ppsenak-nitro2.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:29:37 -0000 Hi Tony, On 18/08/2020 16:44, tony.li@tony.li wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > >> section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >> >> Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >> >> We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be >> mixed with other delay values (max, average). > > > The problem is that that does not exactly match “Unidirectional Link > Delay” or “Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay”, leading to the ambiguity. > Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, > it’s a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min.  So type > 33 seems like a better match. I'm not sure what do you mean by 33. "Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay" is Type 34. thanks, Peter > >> >> >> section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >> >> Type   Description                          Encoding >>                                            Reference >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> 34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay    RFC8570 >> > > > And it also says: > > 33 Unidirectional Link DelayRFC8570 > > > > This does not help. > > >> So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no >> issue adding the text you proposed below. > > > What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of > specifications, to be precise and clear.  We are not there yet. > > >> BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you >> were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you >> were, as you did not indicate otherwise. > > > My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > > >> Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not >> something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft. > > > I’m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important > clarification. > > You also have an author’s email that is bouncing, so at least one more > spin is required. > > Sorry, > Tony > From nobody Tue Aug 18 09:04:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC90D3A0E4C; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:04:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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(2603:10b6:a03:1c1::14) by BYAPR11MB2966.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:84::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3283.24; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:04:22 +0000 Received: from BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::418a:3b0a:d7e1:a3cf]) by BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::418a:3b0a:d7e1:a3cf%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3283.028; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:04:22 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "tony.li@tony.li" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , Christian Hopps , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo Thread-Index: AQHWdO51MQpjMYVPmkGrSI2v6t8U86k898AAgACasICAAF/ZAIAAFHVw Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:04:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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Message-ID: To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "tony.li@tony.li" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , Christian Hopps , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000428f8905ad294bc5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 16:22:36 -0000 --000000000000428f8905ad294bc5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Les, I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. See RFC 8570 says: Type Description ---------------------------------------------------- 33 Unidirectional Link Delay 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :) If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. That's all. Cheers, R. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote: > Tony =E2=80=93 > > > > As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why > you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point 33. > > > > RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: > > > > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > > > This sub-TLV contains two values: > > > > =E2=80=9CMin Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link = delay > > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > > an integer value. > > > > Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link delay > > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as > > an integer value.=E2=80=9D > > > > It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min > Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. > > > > I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think > Peter has been very clear. > > Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? > > > > Les > > > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM > *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = ; > Acee Lindem (acee) ; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.or= g > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo > > > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > > > section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: > > > Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. > > We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be mixe= d > with other delay values (max, average). > > > > > > The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional L= ink > Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, le= ading to the ambiguity. > Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it= =E2=80=99s > a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min. So type 33 see= ms > like a better match. > > > > > > section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: > > Type Description Encoding > Reference > --------------------------------------------------------- > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 > > > > > > And it also says: > > > > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 > > > > > > This does not help. > > > > > > So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue > adding the text you proposed below. > > > > > > What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of > specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. > > > > > > BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were > fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, a= s > you did not indicate otherwise. > > > > > > My bad, I should have pressed the issue. > > > > > > Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not > something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft= . > > > > > > I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but important > clarification. > > > > You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least one= more > spin is required. > > > > Sorry, > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --000000000000428f8905ad294bc5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious a= s Tony is pointing out.=C2=A0

    See RFC 8570 says:= =C2=A0

          Type    Description
      ----------------------------------------------------
       33     Unidirectional Link Delay

       34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    <= div>That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft lit= erally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick min= imum value from ULD type 33 :)=C2=A0

    If you=C2=A0w= ant to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value of Min/Max Unidirec= tional Link Delay (34) and be done.=C2=A0

    That'= ;s all.=C2=A0

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &l= t;ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org> wrote:

    Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-a= pp, I am not sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirecte= d to code point 33.

    =C2=A0

    RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:

    =C2=A0

    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    =C2=A0

    This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0

    =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries = the minimum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecond= s) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.<= /u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carr= ies the maximum measured link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microsecond= s) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.=E2= =80=9D

    =C2=A0

    It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referrin= g to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

    =C2=A0

    I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifi= cations, but I think Peter has been very clear.

    Please explain how you managed to end up at code poi= nt 33??

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org<= /a>; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex= -algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<= u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Hi Peter,

    =C2=A0



    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:=


    Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot= be mixed with other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2= =80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional= Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you = leave things open to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of co= urse, you always want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a better matc= h.





    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    And it also says:

    =C2=A0

    33=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    This does not help.

    =C2=A0



    So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient,= but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibi= lity, as writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.=C2=A0 We are n= ot there yet.

    =C2=A0



    BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, = I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I t= hought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.

    =C2=A0



    Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue an= d hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the f= lex-algo draft.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially re= solved, but important clarification.

    =C2=A0

    You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is boun= cing, so at least one more spin is required.

    =C2=A0

    Sorry,

    Tony

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:40:02 +0000 From: Veerendranatha Reddy V To: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 Thread-Index: AdZ1bLVZomK+AP1qRgqOeyJr1fTjrw== Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 14:40:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [103.210.133.220] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ac74800d-68e3-4662-862a-08d84384971c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DBAPR07MB6888: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: WFSO/kBVzCtsv6lA110jfMJvU2teEdeqa7/PeutMX37fcACXMGCvgfdcLSJ8DB3ySmOp8y5u1b00jziJce1TqodOgbo8588bq6fzgRznH++UjTx00IgqD6sK8+rtptfTGzCR/HOBZZZ6hE/xwwkSV8Y7JgQfmRZzVSQGp/hioaNUYTAmFnEH25UKMxA9ilO0/0NSj/tVhbtlYf9eoXJgTpVdyoUmMsi+p2ozaTRcOwKyZVJGIZ9rCsGVyKFsUnmiLEadjCBxmCZZHTGMMwirDXcK3y7AGBwikXwdN74GbcrgFZPQQF0UcQC6/KPjeZ0IJS3UUX9th7X6nDa7WY5MIQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_DB7PR07MB3914AA1BF15E141673DF1E11BB5C0DB7PR07MB3914eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR07MB3914.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ac74800d-68e3-4662-862a-08d84384971c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2020 14:40:02.2628 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: YGx81vzfLyfytMQ5FGhBnQkllVMODuVPIGR+l4YpsxRZPufzBOWTZdaJB+zLY6BrKJedazefUzPA4SppxozL2n3EPASNWPPN8ktEXHyypq+upJRK6oBd1Xzo5HZaHEV+ X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBAPR07MB6888 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 09:25:18 -0700 Subject: [Lsr] Regarding OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV usage for External/NSSA prefixes defined in RFC 8665 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 15:21:48 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB3914AA1BF15E141673DF1E11BB5C0DB7PR07MB3914eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Authors, All, OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 has IA flag to distingui= sh between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes. Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range TLV for external/NSSA p= refixes ? For External Prefixes, we can able to use Prefix Range TLV by using LSA t= ype (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so the TLV is for External Prefixes) But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA prefixes (Type-7) , whi= ch are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type field in this TLV to dist= inguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as IA flag will not be set anyway). Thanks & Regards, Veerendranath --_000_DB7PR07MB3914AA1BF15E141673DF1E11BB5C0DB7PR07MB3914eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi Authors, All,

    OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV defined in RFC 8665 h= as IA flag to distinguish between Intra and Inter Area scope prefixes.=

    Whether any restrictions to not to use Prefix Range = TLV for external/NSSA prefixes ?

    For External Prefixes, we can able to use  Pref= ix Range TLV  by using LSA type (based on AS scope Opaque Type , so th= e TLV is for External Prefixes)

    But If we need to use the Prefix Range TLV for NSSA = prefixes (Type-7) , which are in area scope, there is no flag/route-type fi= eld in this TLV to distinguish between Intra or NSSA prefixes( as IA flag w= ill not be set anyway).

     

    Thanks & Regards,

    Veerendranath

     

     

     

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We just need a clarification of the document. I don=E2=80=99t = understand why this is such a big deal. Tony > On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > Les, >=20 > I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.=20 >=20 > See RFC 8570 says:=20 >=20 > Type Description > ---------------------------------------------------- > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay >=20 > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >=20 > That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft = literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may = pick minimum value from ULD type 33 :)=20 >=20 > If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done.=20 >=20 > That's all.=20 >=20 > Cheers, > R. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > wrote: > Tony =E2=80=93 >=20 > =20 >=20 > As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure = why you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point = 33. >=20 > =20 >=20 > RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >=20 > =20 >=20 > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >=20 > =20 >=20 > This sub-TLV contains two values: >=20 > =20 >=20 > =E2=80=9CMin Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured = link delay >=20 > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as >=20 > an integer value. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link = delay >=20 > value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as >=20 > an integer value.=E2=80=9D >=20 > =20 >=20 > It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min = Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I = think Peter has been very clear. >=20 > Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Les >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Lsr > On = Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM > To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > > Cc: lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-ads@ietf.org = ; Christian Hopps >; Acee Lindem (acee) >; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi Peter, >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >=20 >=20 > Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >=20 > We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be = mixed with other delay values (max, average). >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional = Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D= , leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, you leave things open = to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you = always want to take the min. So type 33 seems like a better match. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >=20 > Type Description Encoding > Reference > --------------------------------------------------------- > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > And it also says: >=20 > =20 >=20 > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 = > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > This does not help. >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no = issue adding the text you proposed below. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers = of specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you = were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you = were, as you did not indicate otherwise. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not = something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo = draft. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but = important clarification. >=20 > =20 >=20 > You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least = one more spin is required. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Sorry, >=20 > Tony >=20 > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr = --Apple-Mail=_0D7705CA-7918-4D6A-9937-9D37ED11DB29 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a = clarification of the document.  I don=E2=80=99t understand why this = is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug = 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> = wrote:

    Les,

    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing = out. 

    See = RFC 8570 says: 

          Type    =
Description
      ----------------------------------------------------
       33     Unidirectional Link Delay

       34     Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    That means that is = someone implementing it reads text in this draft literally (meaning = Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick minimum value = from ULD type 33 :) 

    If you want to be precise this draft may say = minimum value of Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be = done. 

    That's all. 

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les = Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    Tony =E2=80=93

     

    As an author of both RFC 8570 = and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why you are confused =E2=80=93 = nor why you got misdirected to code point 33.

     

    RFC 8570 (and its predecessor = RFC 7810) define:

     

    34 =           Min/Max = Unidirectional Link Delay

     

    This sub-TLV contains two values:

     

    =E2=80=9CMin Delay:  This = 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link delay

          = value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as

          an integer value.

     

       Max Delay:  This 24-bit field = carries the maximum measured link delay

          = value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as

          an integer = value.=E2=80=9D

     

    It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is = referring to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.

     

    I = agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think = Peter has been very clear.

    Please explain how you managed to end up at code = point 33??

     

       Les

     

     

     

    From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li
    Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = <chopps@chopps.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo

     

     

    Hi Peter,

     



    section 5.1 of the = draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says:


    Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be = mixed with other delay values (max, average).

     

     

    The problem is that that does not = exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/= Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. = Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, = it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min.  So type 33 seems like a better = match.





    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type   Description =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Encoding
    =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =       Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34      Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =    RFC8570

     

     

    And it also says:

     

    33      =
Unidirectional Link =
Delay            =
RFC8570

     

     

    This does not help.

     



    So, IMHO what we have now is = correct and sufficient, but I have no issue adding the text you proposed = below.

     

     

    What you have now is ambiguous. = We have a responsibility, as writers of specifications, to be precise = and clear.  We are not there yet.

     



    BTW, before I posted 09 version = of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing = ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, as you did not indicate = otherwise.

     

     

    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.

     



    Anyway, I consider this as a pure = editorial issue and hopefully not something that would cause you to = object the WG LC of the flex-algo draft.

     

     

    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that = this is trivially resolved, but important clarification.

     

    You also have an author=E2=80=99s = email that is bouncing, so at least one more spin is required.

     

    Sorry,

    Tony

     

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

    = --Apple-Mail=_0D7705CA-7918-4D6A-9937-9D37ED11DB29-- From nobody Tue Aug 18 10:10:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6B03A1025 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:10:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OkCTTR85UmYz for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 724C03A1020 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id cq28so15858709edb.10 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:10:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZvSLv+hrqVw6sBbawRdei+RUVl4PXidhqMo3s0GagW0=; b=KB9SUrVuzysFRo/VjEkT73wA/lGxhAKjaPAoPE1nPo7uoBdjepTn1b93WOU/hNdu/d m6QhpgxEYI8o8My7xJylLngx2br3hJYeFXb1+i0sh99Zio09s725NjPBefVNjbWGJWhR WKvATiUEaii1zFhaPsMwL/2Lf+NaZYqD001unAgT8IM4YS8jl77atAG2gVDKz1cfnA0w P8bLZ7Fj/VJbwf7AIFDvMZtKbEenrgdm+qLQHRcHpPPanz0f777Rugz1nRarrdLPKkKn ViG2zkONO5ilutwL0/m3+8EgEFOgIg4G2Tsm6pDH8w9/QiTXBL0whZtIzzr7UqPxdcGQ lbOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZvSLv+hrqVw6sBbawRdei+RUVl4PXidhqMo3s0GagW0=; b=FNWL12gbnoB1TdeNIB5tUAFw+zcy/Upc2DOJA/zUURrYrQeLwXCDq+vCZ8Zv8S/Ifg viaNS9xvmk1U4nSvTseW67ZKa0DWBspflaOcm+YB57czWqgJpfryHTghsGWpwnqOwCBA pYPtLQ81jHAHsqLUWc2MzXm9vwp5wVOaw1Teerk54YzZQoMheKkeqizAgUNSPOEgqjlw sK5FO8YAwMC44TtT2qGdINTGVfg/1SDGc5RbHNuAT8l523WLdmi0XgmhC0xxjRaRQZHl 4f5yjik9VX9b/zT+uFqzD8GF2I4Fi66tlP3FoYycZ8xtKdFQMLFQ5zsNHtGtBsez0/XM y2Uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532iMdxrU0IvM1maXlumyb7wirusi6FqGBvTKanTYcRAL/J0Q9Bd /+9kbzpjYu3eMFU5jZe0ENl9lViUwHPE0ehtIHe9vg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwkPT4ztLKiInMld2JNhwCp4Fk7k5viaXDO+oXnHOq03mIwrpgXX652iDNkyIE6gTcdXwh2lCx2cD3zhmyojYo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:a5b:: with SMTP id bt27mr21197923edb.120.1597770634779; Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:10:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9094873B-3A03-4F48-B438-55AB0CA75396@chopps.org> <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <7D686875-46CA-4E3C-8F1A-3A02DB162499@tony.li> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 19:10:24 +0200 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Peter Psenak , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-ads@ietf.org" , Christian Hopps , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e776405ad29f728" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 17:10:39 -0000 --0000000000001e776405ad29f728 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, I am not sure what the deal is :) But fact is that we never defined a type which this draft is referring to "Min Unidirectional Link Delay" just does not exist in any IANA registry so even any search for that will fail. Perhaps authors assumed that: Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay means both "Min Unidirectional Link Delay" & "Max Unidirectional Link Delay" but this is just asking for ambiguity. Cheers, R. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:02 PM wrote: > > Robert, > > Thank you, exactly. > > We just need a clarification of the document. I don=E2=80=99t understand= why this > is such a big deal. > > Tony > > > On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > > Les, > > I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out. > > See RFC 8570 says: > > Type Description > ---------------------------------------------------- > 33 Unidirectional Link Delay > > 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay > > > That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft > literally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pic= k > minimum value from ULD type 33 :) > > If you want to be precise this draft may say minimum value of Min/Max > Unidirectional Link Delay (34) and be done. > > That's all. > > Cheers, > R. > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Tony =E2=80=93 >> >> >> >> As an author of both RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure wh= y >> you are confused =E2=80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point 33. >> >> >> >> RFC 8570 (and its predecessor RFC 7810) define: >> >> >> >> 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay >> >> >> >> This sub-TLV contains two values: >> >> >> >> =E2=80=9CMin Delay: This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link= delay >> >> value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as >> >> an integer value. >> >> >> >> Max Delay: This 24-bit field carries the maximum measured link delay >> >> value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as >> >> an integer value.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> >> It seems clear to me that the flex-draft is referring to Min >> Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34. >> >> >> >> I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think >> Peter has been very clear. >> >> Please explain how you managed to end up at code point 33?? >> >> >> >> Les >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of * tony.li@tony.li >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM >> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; Christian Hopps ; >> Acee Lindem (acee) ; >> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo.all@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Peter, >> >> >> >> >> >> section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo says: >> >> >> Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app]. >> >> We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot be >> mixed with other delay values (max, average). >> >> >> >> >> >> The problem is that that does not exactly match =E2=80=9CUnidirectional = Link >> Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D, l= eading to the ambiguity. >> Without a clear match, you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it= =E2=80=99s >> a metriic, so of course, you always want to take the min. So type 33 se= ems >> like a better match. >> >> >> >> >> >> section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says: >> >> Type Description Encoding >> Reference >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >> >> >> >> >> >> And it also says: >> >> >> >> 33 Unidirectional Link Delay RFC8570 >> >> >> >> >> >> This does not help. >> >> >> >> >> >> So, IMHO what we have now is correct and sufficient, but I have no issue >> adding the text you proposed below. >> >> >> >> >> >> What you have now is ambiguous. We have a responsibility, as writers of >> specifications, to be precise and clear. We are not there yet. >> >> >> >> >> >> BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo draft, I asked if you were >> fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1. I thought you were, = as >> you did not indicate otherwise. >> >> >> >> >> >> My bad, I should have pressed the issue. >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial issue and hopefully not >> something that would cause you to object the WG LC of the flex-algo draf= t. >> >> >> >> >> >> I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivially resolved, but importan= t >> clarification. >> >> >> >> You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is bouncing, so at least on= e more >> spin is required. >> >> >> >> Sorry, >> >> Tony >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > > --0000000000001e776405ad29f728 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Tony,

    I am not sure what the dea= l is :)=C2=A0

    But fact is that we never defined a = type which this draft is referring to=C2=A0

    "= Min Unidirectional Link Delay" just does not exist in any IANA registr= y so even any search=C2=A0for that will fail.=C2=A0

    Perhaps authors assumed that:=C2=A0=C2=A0

    Mi= n/Max Unidirectional Link Delay means both "Min Unidirectional Link De= lay" & "Max Unidirectional Link Delay" but this is just = asking for=C2=A0ambiguity.=C2=A0

    Cheers,
    =
    R.

    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:02 PM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

    =
    Robert,

    Thank you, exactly.

    We just need a clarification of the document.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t unde= rstand why this is such a big deal.

    Tony


    On Aug 18, 2020, at 9:22 AM, R= obert Raszuk <rob= ert@raszuk.net> wrote:

    Les,

    <= /div>
    I think this is not very obvious as Tony is pointing out.=C2=A0

    See RFC 8570 says:=C2=A0

    <= pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-bef= ore:page"> Type Description ---------------------------------------------------- 33 Unidirectional Link Delay 34 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay

    <= div>That means that is someone implementing it reads text in this draft lit= erally (meaning Minimum value of Unidirectional Link Delay) it may pick min= imum value from ULD type 33 :)=C2=A0

    If you=C2=A0w= ant to be precise this draft may say minimum=C2=A0value of Min/Max Unidirec= tional Link Delay (34) and be done.=C2=A0

    That'= ;s all.=C2=A0

    Cheers,
    R.



    On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:04 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &l= t;ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

    Tony =E2=80=93

    =C2=A0

    As an author of both= RFC 8570 and I-D.ietf-isis-te-app, I am not sure why you are confused =E2= =80=93 nor why you got misdirected to code point 33.

    =C2=A0

    RFC 8570 (= and its predecessor RFC 7810) define:

    =C2=A0

    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay<= u>

    =C2=A0

    This sub-TLV contains two values:

    =C2=A0

    =E2=80=9CMin Delay:=C2= =A0 This 24-bit field carries the minimum measured link delay=

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value (in microse= conds) over a configurable interval, encoded as

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an integer value.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2=A0 Max Delay:=C2=A0 This 24-bit field carries the maximum measur= ed link delay

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 value (in microseconds) over a configurable interval, encoded as<= u>

    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 an i= nteger value.=E2=80=9D

    =C2= =A0

    It seems clear to me that the flex-dra= ft is referring to Min Unidirectional Link Delay in codepoint 34.=

    =C2=A0

    I agree it is important to be unambiguous in specifications, but I think= Peter has been very clear.

    Please = explain how you managed to end up at code point 33??

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0=C2= =A0 Les

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    = =C2=A0

    = From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tony.li@tony.li Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:44 AM
    To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
    Cc: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org<= /a>; Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; draft-ietf-lsr-flex= -algo.all@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo<= u>

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    Hi Peter,

    =C2=A0



    section 5.1 of the draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo say= s:


    Min Unidirectional Link Delay as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-te-app].

    We explicitly say "Min Unidirectional Link Delay", so this cannot= be mixed with other delay values (max, average).

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    The problem is that that does not exactly match= =E2=80=9CUnidirectional Link Delay=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CMin/Max Unidirecti= onal Link Delay=E2=80=9D, leading to the ambiguity. Without a clear match, = you leave things open to people guessing. Now, it=E2=80=99s a metriic, so o= f course, you always want to take the min.=C2=A0 So type 33 seems like a better matc= h.





    section 7.3. of ietf-isis-te-app says:

    Type =C2=A0=C2=A0Description =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Encoding
    =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Reference
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    34 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Min/Max Unidirectional Link Delay =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    And it also says:

    =C2=A0

    33=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unidirectional Link Delay=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 RFC8570

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    This does not help.

    =C2=A0



    So, IMHO what we have now is correct and suffic= ient, but I have no issue adding the text you proposed below.=

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    What you have now is ambiguous. We have a respo= nsibility, as writers of specifications, to be precise and clear.=C2=A0 We = are not there yet.

    =C2=A0



    BTW, before I posted 09 version of flex-algo dr= aft, I asked if you were fine with just referencing ietf-isis-te-app in 5.1= . I thought you were, as you did not indicate otherwise.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    My bad, I should have pressed the issue.

    =C2=A0



    Anyway, I consider this as a pure editorial iss= ue and hopefully not something that would cause you to object the WG LC of = the flex-algo draft.

    =C2=A0

    =C2=A0

    I=E2=80=99m sorry, I think that this is trivial= ly resolved, but important clarification.

    =C2=A0

    You also have an author=E2=80=99s email that is= bouncing, so at least one more spin is required.

    =C2=A0

    Sorry,

    Tony

    =C2=A0

    _______________________________________________
    Lsr mailing list
    Lsr@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr