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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 03:12:09 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/x1VCcjkvU315BOEdawB1iXkrevQ>
Subject: [Lsr] Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>, Liyizhou <liyizhou@huawei.com>, 'Peng Liu' <liupengyjy@chinamobile.com>, =?iso-2022-jp?B?TGlhbmcgR2VuZ3wbJEJmVk48GyhC?= <gengliang@chinamobile.com>
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Thread-Topic: 5G Edge -Computing Solution drafts can be used for   Dyncast (dynamic anycast) use cases
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/S5AmCfthYGaFlFFC6nRsACyckGg>
Subject: [Lsr] 5G Edge -Computing Solution drafts can be used for Dyncast (dynamic anycast) use cases
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--_000_SN6PR13MB23340B6747554039B178957D85EF0SN6PR13MB2334namp_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yi Zhou, Liang, Peng, and Peter,

We have 4 IETF drafts describing the different aspect of the solutions to 5=
G Edge computing, which can cover your use cases and requirement described =
in draft-geng-rtgwg-cfn-dyncast-ps-usecase:

Through working on the 3GPP Release 17=1B$B!G=1B(Bs 5G Edge Computing proje=
ct (3GPP TR23.748), we noticed that IP Layer can do more to optimize the 5G=
 Edge computing services.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer=
-metrics/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1yyVDIoM4pRjqoaLcFtGBohA3Our0GjTsZTI_OhhRqrwPug8u=
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ssNadIg0Miqo-Q9jwqwCGrZhRa3Zf94d0HVx-aI4KJrBQi3%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatat=
racker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer-metr=
ics%252F&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec83d=
4508d87bea9dc6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903951=
448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1=
haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D1oMRUMShQ8Q8fA9JDhv7pyDVLRPpKamyqLvNHMb5=
1qU%3D&reserved=3D0> describes the IP Layer metrics and methods to measure =
the Edge Computing Servers running status and environment for IP networks t=
o select the optimal Edge Computing server location in 5G Edge Computing (E=
C) environment. This document also describes the method of incorporating th=
ose measurements with IP routing cost to come up with a more optimal criter=
ia in selecting ANYCAST locations.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-6man-5g-edge-compute-sticky-s=
ervice/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2=
Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F10q2K1AolUwnJQxE-1zdp20SZ9dJ4nGbrfheOMCk6FhMP7cll-l=
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GFwvnl_jqU3tClFSPvy1DDEp12JvdoAa6ygDA_rvVmbfW%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatra=
cker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-6man-5g-edge-compute-sticky-service%=
252F&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec83d4508=
d87bea9dc6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903961443%=
7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw=
iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D2cZoGaNIOEVm6twNUFp9aBP%2BYDbWnhEQrPYVVL8Alr=
g%3D&reserved=3D0> describes a solution of using IPv6 extension header to h=
elp Ingress router to stick traffic from a UE to the original App Server wh=
en the UE moves from one 5G Site to another.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-5g-edge-compute-app-meta-=
data/ describes a new BGP Network Layer Reachability Information (BGP NLRI)=
 Path Attribute, AppMetaData, that can distribute the 5G Edge Computing App=
 running status and environment, so that other routers in the 5G Local Data=
 Network can make intelligent decision on optimized forwarding of flows fro=
m UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge Computing=
 services. The extension enables a feature, called soft anchoring, which ma=
kes one Edge Computing Server at one specific location to be more preferred=
 than others for the same application to receive packets from a specific so=
urce (UE).

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/=
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsecure=
-web.cisco.com%2F1pN4xFsbZmNhUqdhLGnTREMAj8uivXtc4wzAe5JqGqd4rZrJsKGRniQQp0=
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2NJ7c77M8n1w1vTCMA3Mmv9L5yO4SlFI32zj70F_87C-scozGGga61PK-wDmL2JV_2BVvpfnK0Y=
A0ez8WpbnSvQZQsks3bCUl7SQxG2IcuZI4PxNLhA2Y_22SSoaankWjg0sU58se1h4tDt7SrAao_=
ZcFqSTge-iZYmOyFN996wqXhPh5ZLzGa52Gh2j%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org%252Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%252F&data=3D04=
%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec83d4508d87bea9dc6%7C0=
fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903961443%7CUnknown%7CTW=
FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3=
D%7C1000&sdata=3DQb1rHSngDnQYOSDfVH5xyCRnZ9U2WoQ3knWGrUDNcm8%3D&reserved=3D=
0> describe OSPF extension for the Routers that collect the IP Layer Metric=
s to propagate to all other routers.

Please let us know if the proposed solutions can solve your use cases.

Thank you
Linda Dunbar



From: rtgwg <rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org>> On Beha=
lf Of Liyizhou
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:17 AM
To: rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>
Cc: Lifeng (Frank) <frank.lifeng@huawei.com<mailto:frank.lifeng@huawei.com>=
>; Peng Liu <liupengyjy@chinamobile.com<mailto:liupengyjy@chinamobile.com>>=
; gengliang@chinamobile.com<mailto:gengliang@chinamobile.com>
Subject: Dyncast (dynamic anycast)

Hi folks,

We submitted two drafts about dyncast (dynamic anycast).

draft-geng-rtgwg-cfn-dyncast-ps-usecase<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-geng-rt=
gwg-cfn-dyncast-ps-usecase%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com=
%7C868abea8ec7b458427ad08d87f5aa4e4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
7C0%7C637399374577973883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj=
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DpkJ6LwZfAAZCHBJpDuR=
o1dZLFJM1pa2H83S5BZM75UQ%3D&reserved=3D0>
draft-li-rtgwg-cfn-dyncast-architecture<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-li-rtgw=
g-cfn-dyncast-architecture%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com=
%7C868abea8ec7b458427ad08d87f5aa4e4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%=
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Edge computing puts the potential requirements on better load balancing amo=
ng the computing resources hosted on different edges. The number of such ed=
ges could be thousand or even more depending on where the computing resourc=
es are located.
The expected approach is to consider both network status and computing reso=
urces at the same time to determine the best place to forward a new computi=
ng demand to. Current solution usually uses DNS-like approach, select the s=
ervice instance first (the lowest load or roughly the geographically closes=
t instance) and then direct the demand to it regardless how good or bad the=
 network path reaching it.

Anycast based service addressing methodology could be used here to reach th=
e best edge in terms of both computation resource and network status at the=
 same time. Flow affinity and computing aware routing needs to be enhanced =
in such an anycast architecture. It is called dynamic anycast in the drafts=
.

If you have any comments or suggestions, please drop us an email. Appreciat=
ed.

Regards,
Yizhou

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fy-trim:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Yi Zhou, Liang, Pen=
g, and Peter,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">We have 4 IETF draf=
ts describing the different aspect of the solutions to 5G Edge computing, w=
hich can cover your use cases and requirement described in draft-geng-rtgwg=
-cfn-dyncast-ps-usecase:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Through working on =
the 3GPP Release 17=1B$B!G=1B(Bs 5G Edge Computing project (3GPP TR23.748),=
 we noticed that IP Layer can do more to optimize the 5G Edge computing ser=
vices.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#0563C1"><a=
 href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%=
2Fsecure-web.cisco.com%2F1yyVDIoM4pRjqoaLcFtGBohA3Our0GjTsZTI_OhhRqrwPug8uB=
8BZCGk2WVCYZmJMutbzptopfG2ACz4AxfZxeUgnDWbBu1hcHyGnNbsDXzkStp9bntK0rpjjQPBg=
g-1jY8eRWaAcB_V85O45nB_MzOBkHjs9r0q1sGjDHKPhx7WjEaZgiAzZ4IsIMfmKhXFfCy_LUF9=
yMT24QsWdp66L9H5a1h0hA_940C_gOSIQDClYCc_3NcAcy2w665SAxX4zkbf9KrUNoa2w1tIurs=
sNadIg0Miqo-Q9jwqwCGrZhRa3Zf94d0HVx-aI4KJrBQi3%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org%252Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer-metri=
cs%252F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec=
83d4508d87bea9dc6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903=
951448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D1oMRUMShQ8Q8fA9JDhv7pyDVLRPpKamyq=
LvNHMb51qU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunb=
ar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer-metrics/</a></span></u><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt">
 describes the IP Layer metrics and methods to measure the Edge Computing S=
ervers running status and environment for IP networks to select the optimal=
 Edge Computing server location in 5G Edge Computing (EC) environment. This=
 document also describes the method
 of incorporating those measurements with IP routing cost to come up with a=
 more optimal criteria in selecting ANYCAST locations.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><a href=3D"https://=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisc=
o.com%2F10q2K1AolUwnJQxE-1zdp20SZ9dJ4nGbrfheOMCk6FhMP7cll-lnH4Ele1vAAkXjvGY=
aXHnAl_WGczRan0zDSIF25BUg7bs9aWtE1gnvQvPt8_qGMdw5gmM3jpAWOXC6_N_neane1LGU-t=
FdSie6E94aD3LmVxBQnkkB_qnp3glPLwHgMYiU3hGmAJ_yuBK1a2SBOFdr3VmeUxXESfiXy-k0C=
flGKYdeAnYHNoIGMvbqPWVpWhjEVqqxUpLISwkvVznxIeTcYl6IGePA_y9uGFwvnl_jqU3tClFS=
Pvy1DDEp12JvdoAa6ygDA_rvVmbfW%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%25=
2Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-6man-5g-edge-compute-sticky-service%252F&amp;data=3D=
04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec83d4508d87bea9dc6%7=
C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903961443%7CUnknown%7C=
TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0=
%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D2cZoGaNIOEVm6twNUFp9aBP%2BYDbWnhEQrPYVVL8Alrg%3D&amp=
;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-6man-5g-edge-c=
ompute-sticky-service/</a>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:DengXian">describes a so=
lution of using
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">IPv6 extension header to help Ingre=
ss router to stick traffic from a UE to the original App Server when the UE=
 moves from one 5G Site to another.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-5g-edge-compute-app-meta-data/">h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-idr-5g-edge-compute-app-meta-d=
ata/</a> describes a new BGP Network Layer
 Reachability Information (BGP NLRI) Path Attribute, AppMetaData, that can =
distribute the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so tha=
t other routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision =
on optimized forwarding of flows
 from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge Compu=
ting services. The extension enables a feature, called soft anchoring, whic=
h makes one Edge Computing Server at one specific location to be more prefe=
rred than others for the same application
 to receive packets from a specific source (UE).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><a href=3D"https://=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsecure-web.cisc=
o.com%2F1pN4xFsbZmNhUqdhLGnTREMAj8uivXtc4wzAe5JqGqd4rZrJsKGRniQQp0KpmomwEWd=
nRGFimTXd3kCsWrCfJZK1_IK7-mzNZpLXCnmLbwhM011N3KS_V9ZTbJBsQCpIAz2Se2NJ7c77M8=
n1w1vTCMA3Mmv9L5yO4SlFI32zj70F_87C-scozGGga61PK-wDmL2JV_2BVvpfnK0YA0ez8Wpbn=
SvQZQsks3bCUl7SQxG2IcuZI4PxNLhA2Y_22SSoaankWjg0sU58se1h4tDt7SrAao_ZcFqSTge-=
iZYmOyFN996wqXhPh5ZLzGa52Gh2j%2Fhttps%253A%252F%252Fdatatracker.ietf.org%25=
2Fdoc%252Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%252F&amp;data=3D04%7C01=
%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Ce5a45f19804e4ec83d4508d87bea9dc6%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637395594903961443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ=
sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1=
000&amp;sdata=3DQb1rHSngDnQYOSDfVH5xyCRnZ9U2WoQ3knWGrUDNcm8%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-osp=
f-ext/</a>
 describe OSPF extension for the Routers that collect the IP Layer Metrics =
to propagate to all other routers.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Please let us know =
if the proposed solutions can solve your use cases.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Thank you<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Linda Dunbar<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> =
rtgwg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org">rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Liyizhou<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 2, 2020 1:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org">rtgwg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Lifeng (Frank) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:frank.lifeng@huawei.com">fr=
ank.lifeng@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Peng Liu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:liupengyjy@ch=
inamobile.com">liupengyjy@chinamobile.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:gengliang@chinamobile.com">gengliang@chinamobile.com</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Dyncast (dynamic anycast) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi folks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We submitted two drafts about dyncast (dynamic anyca=
st).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-geng-rtgwg-cf=
n-dyncast-ps-usecase%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7=
C868abea8ec7b458427ad08d87f5aa4e4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C=
0%7C637399374577973883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi=
V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DpkJ6LwZfAAZCHBJpD=
uRo1dZLFJM1pa2H83S5BZM75UQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-geng-rtgwg-cfn-dyncas=
t-ps-usecase</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-li-rtgwg-cfn-=
dyncast-architecture%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7=
C868abea8ec7b458427ad08d87f5aa4e4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C=
0%7C637399374577973883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi=
V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3D%2FcVca03mICRivpg=
TP6%2FvUIqZnXs47iU%2BJ%2B6XZQUFgf4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-li-rtgwg-cfn-=
dyncast-architecture</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Edge computing puts the potential requirements on be=
tter load balancing among the computing resources hosted on different edges=
. The number of such edges could be thousand or even more depending on wher=
e the computing resources are located.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The expected approach is to consider both network st=
atus and computing resources at the same time to determine the best place t=
o forward a new computing demand to. Current solution usually uses DNS-like=
 approach, select the service instance
 first (the lowest load or roughly the geographically closest instance) and=
 then direct the demand to it regardless how good or bad the network path r=
eaching it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anycast based service addressing methodology could b=
e used here to reach the best edge in terms of both computation resource an=
d network status at the same time. Flow affinity and computing aware routin=
g needs to be enhanced in such an
 anycast architecture. It is called dynamic anycast in the drafts. <o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you have any comments or suggestions, please drop=
 us an email. Appreciated.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yizhou<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_SN6PR13MB23340B6747554039B178957D85EF0SN6PR13MB2334namp_--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
CC: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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From nobody Wed Nov  4 14:43:52 2020
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the  OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 15:15:33 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "=?utf-8?Q?lsr=40ietf.org?=" <lsr@ietf.org>,  "=?utf-8?Q?lsr-chairs=40ietf.org?=" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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=46or OSP=46v3 use E-LSAs (R=46C8362)

Cheers,
Jeff
On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com=
>, wrote:
> Acee,
>
> Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the R=
unning Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.
>
> In a nutshell, the=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-l=
sr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/=C2=A0proposes the extension to LSA that can =
carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and=
 Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the=
 router:
>
> =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Load measurement sub-TLV
> =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Capacity Index=C2=A0=C2=A0Sub-TLV
> =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Preference Index=C2=A0=C2=A0Sub-TLV
>
> Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those measur=
ement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it=
 not so straightforward when reading in a rush.
>
> The Goal of the OSP=46 extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the rout=
er=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data N=
etwork.
>
> If using your suggested R=46C7684 OSP=46v2 Extended Prefix TLV, the ext=
ension does seem easier and cleaner:
>
> We can have:
> =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C Type=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C Length=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C Route Type=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C Prefix Length =7C A=46=C2=A0=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C =46lags=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0=7C
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C Address Prefix (variable)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C Load Measurement Sub-TLV=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C
> =7E=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0=7E
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C capacity Index Sub-TLV=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C
> =7E=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0=7E
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> =7C Site Preference Sub-TLV=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=7C
> =7E=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0=7E
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
> R=46C7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to R=46C8362 in th=
e same draft=3F Or define a new A=46 type for the same extension to R=46C=
7684=3F
>
> Your guidance is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Linda Dunbar
>
>
> =46rom:=C2=A0Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=40cisco.com>
> Sent:=C2=A0Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM
> To:=C2=A0Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com>; Yingzhen Qu <ying=
zhen.ietf=40gmail.com>; lsr=40ietf.org; lsr-chairs=40ietf.org
> Subject:=C2=A0Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSP=46 extension for 5=
G Edge Computing (was RE: =5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requ=
ests
>
> We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a loo=
k at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardizatio=
n requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified=
. It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 min=
ute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the many =
issues.
>
> One major issue is that you should be extending R=46C 7684 rather than =
R=46C 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application serve=
r address).
>
> I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IET=46 109.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> =46rom:=C2=A0Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com>
> Date:=C2=A0Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM
> To:=C2=A0Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf=40gmail.com>, =22lsr=40ietf.org=22 =
<lsr=40ietf.org>, =22lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=22 <lsr-chairs=40ietf.org>
> Subject:=C2=A0Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSP=46 extension for 5G Ed=
ge Computing (was RE: =5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests=

> Resent-=46rom:=C2=A0<alias-bounces=40ietf.org>
> Resent-To:=C2=A0Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf=40gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <a=
cee=40cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps=40chopps.org>
> Resent-Date:=C2=A0Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM
>
> LSR Chairs, YingZhen,
>
> Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-=
ext/
>
> This draft describes an OSP=46 extension that can distribute the 5G Edg=
e Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing for=
warding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance=
 for 5G Edge Computing services.
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Linda Dunbar
>
> =46rom:=C2=A0Lsr <lsr-bounces=40ietf.org>=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0Yingzh=
en Qu
> Sent:=C2=A0Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM
> To:=C2=A0lsr=40ietf.org;=C2=A0lsr-chairs=40ietf.org
> Subject:=C2=A0=5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
>
> Hi all,
>
> We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meetin=
g IET=46 109. Please send your requests to=C2=A0lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=C2=A0=
indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentati=
on and discussion).
>
> LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.
>
> Thanks,
> Yingzhen
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr=40ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--5fa3362f_327b23c6_15868
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<html xmlns=3D=22http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml=22>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>=46or OSP=46v3 use E-LSAs (R=46C8362)</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br />
<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar &lt;lin=
da.dunbar=40futurewei.com&gt;, wrote:</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Acee,</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for c=
arry the Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.</sp=
an></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>In a nutshell, the&=23160;</span><a style=3D=22font-family:Co=
urier New=22 href=3D=22https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-=
5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><span style=3D=
=22font-family:Courier New=22>&=23160;proposes the extension to LSA that =
can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status=
 and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to=
 the router:</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;=E2=80=A2&=23160;<span s=
tyle=3D=22font-family:Courier New=22>Load measurement sub-TLV&=23160;</sp=
an></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;=E2=80=A2&=23160;<span s=
tyle=3D=22font-family:Courier New=22>Capacity Index&=23160;&=23160;Sub-TL=
V&=23160;&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=
=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;</span></blo=
ckquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;=E2=80=A2&=23160;<span s=
tyle=3D=22font-family:Courier New=22>Preference Index&=23160;&=23160;Sub-=
TLV&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=
 &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what th=
ose measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may ha=
ve made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.</span></blockqu=
ote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>The Goal of the OSP=46 extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs i=
n the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Lo=
cal Data Network.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>If using your suggested R=46C7684 OSP=46v2 Extended Prefix TL=
V, the extension does seem easier and cleaner:</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>We can have:</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>&=23160;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8=
 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C Type&=23160;&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23=
160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=231=
60; &=23160;=7C Length&=23160;&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=7C</span=
></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C Route Type&=23160;&=23160; &=23160;=7C Pr=
efix Length =7C A=46&=23160;&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160;=7C =46lags&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=7C</span>=
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C Address Prefix (variable)&=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=
 &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160;=7C</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&=23160;&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C Load Measurement Sub-TLV&=23160;&=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=
=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23=
160; &=23160;=7C</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7E&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=2316=
0; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=
 &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=7E</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&=23160;&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C capacity Index Sub-TLV&=23160;&=23160; &=23=
160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=231=
60; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=2316=
0; &=23160; &=23160;=7C</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7E&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=2316=
0; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=
 &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=7E</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&=23160;&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7C Site Preference Sub-TLV&=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=
=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23=
160; &=23160;=7C</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>=7E&=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=2316=
0; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160=
; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=
 &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; &=23160; =
&=23160; &=23160; &=23160;=7E&=23160;&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&=23160;&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>R=46C7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the A=
pp Server addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to R=46C=
8362 in the same draft=3F Or define a new A=46 type for the same extensio=
n to R=46C7684=3F</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New;font-size: 10pt=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Your guidance is greatly appreciated.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Thank you very much.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>Linda Dunbar</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22font-family:Cou=
rier New=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>=46rom:</strong>&=23160;=
Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=40cisco.com&gt;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>Sent:</strong>&=23160;Tu=
esday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>To:</strong>&=23160;Lind=
a Dunbar &lt;linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;yingzhen.i=
etf=40gmail.com&gt;; lsr=40ietf.org; lsr-chairs=40ietf.org</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>Subject:</strong>&=23160=
;Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSP=46 extension for 5G Edge Computin=
g (was RE: =5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests</blockquot=
e>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>We have a pretty full schedule a=
nd we add you as optional. I took a look at the draft and it is all over =
the place right now with standardization requested for one solution but 3=
 separate solutions partially specified. It could benefit from some WG ma=
iling list discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=
=80=99t have time to discuss the many issues.</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>One major issue is that you shou=
ld be extending R=46C 7684 rather than R=46C 3630 and it seems you these =
app-server selection metrics should be associated with a prefix and NOT a=
 stub link (i.e., the application server address).</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in m=
ore depth before IET=46 109.</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Thanks,</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Acee</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>=46rom:</strong>&=23160;<span style=3D=22color:black;fo=
nt-size: 12pt=22>Linda Dunbar &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22=
 href=3D=22mailto:linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22=
>linda.dunbar=40futurewei.com</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: =
12pt=22>&gt;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>Date:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 1=
2pt=22>&=23160;Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>To:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12p=
t=22>&=23160;Yingzhen Qu &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=
=3D=22mailto:yingzhen.ietf=40gmail.com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>yingzhe=
n.ietf=40gmail.com</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt=
;, =22</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=3D=22mailto:lsr=40ietf=
.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr=40ietf.org</a><span style=3D=22color:=
black;font-size: 12pt=22>=22 &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 =
href=3D=22mailto:lsr=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr=40ietf.org=
</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt;, =22</span><a st=
yle=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=3D=22mailto:lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=22 tar=
get=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr-chairs=40ietf.org</a><span style=3D=22color:blac=
k;font-size: 12pt=22>=22 &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=
=3D=22mailto:lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr-chairs=40=
ietf.org</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt;</span></=
blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>Subject:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size=
: 12pt=22>&=23160;Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSP=46 extension for 5G =
Edge Computing (was RE: =5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Reques=
ts</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>Resent-=46rom:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-size: 12pt=22>&=23160;&lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=3D=
=22mailto:alias-bounces=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>alias-bounc=
es=40ietf.org</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt;</sp=
an></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>Resent-To:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;font-si=
ze: 12pt=22>&=23160;Yingzhen Qu &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22=
 href=3D=22mailto:yingzhen.ietf=40gmail.com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>yi=
ngzhen.ietf=40gmail.com</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22=
>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;</span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=3D=22=
mailto:acee=40cisco.com=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>acee=40cisco.com</a><s=
pan style=3D=22color:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt;, Christian Hopps &lt;<=
/span><a style=3D=22font-size: 12pt=22 href=3D=22mailto:chopps=40chopps.o=
rg=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>chopps=40chopps.org</a><span style=3D=22col=
or:black;font-size: 12pt=22>&gt;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong style=3D=22color:black;f=
ont-size: 12pt=22>Resent-Date:</strong><span style=3D=22color:black;font-=
size: 12pt=22>&=23160;Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM</span></blockq=
uote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>LSR Chairs, YingZhen,</blockquot=
e>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Can you give us 10 minute slot t=
o present this new draft:</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><a href=3D=22https://nam11.safel=
inks.protection.outlook.com/=3Furl=3Dhttps%3A%2=46%2=46datatracker.ietf.o=
rg%2=46doc%2=46draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2=46&amp;data=3D=
04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C83f990f38fe14407efe208d880300245=
%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637400290992237706%7CUnknow=
n%7CTW=46pbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ=
XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DCooHUjUYe%2BePz9rwBZe0orzPqku%2BoSL%2=46rM=
VVa%2=46l2uIc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a></bloc=
kquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>This draft describes an OSP=46 e=
xtension that can distribute the 5G Edge Computing App running status and=
 environment, so that other routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make=
 intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goa=
l is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge Computing services.</=
blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Thank you very much,</blockquote=
>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Linda Dunbar</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>=46rom:</strong>&=23160;=
Lsr &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:lsr-bounces=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblan=
k=22>lsr-bounces=40ietf.org</a>&gt;&=23160;<strong>On Behalf Of</strong>&=
=23160;Yingzhen Qu</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>Sent:</strong>&=23160;Mo=
nday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>To:</strong>&=23160;<a h=
ref=3D=22mailto:lsr=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr=40ietf.org<=
/a>;&=23160;<a href=3D=22mailto:lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fb=
lank=22>lsr-chairs=40ietf.org</a></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><strong>Subject:</strong>&=23160=
;=5BLsr=5D IET=46 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>&=23160;</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black=22>=
Hi all,&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black=22>=
&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>We're now accepting agenda requests fo=
r the LSR Working Grouping meeting IET=46 109. Please send your requests =
to&=23160;</span><a style=3D=22font-family:Times New Roman, serif=22 href=
=3D=22mailto:lsr-chairs=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>lsr-chairs=40=
ietf.org</a><span style=3D=22color:black;font-family:Times New Roman, ser=
if=22>&=23160;indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (cover=
ing presentation and discussion).&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, No=
v 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>&=23160;</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>Thanks,</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22><span style=3D=22color:black;fon=
t-family:Times New Roman, serif=22>Yingzhen</span></blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Lsr mailing list</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
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adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>Lsr=40ietf.org</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D=22border-left-color: rgb(26, 188, 156); margin: 0px;=
 padding-left: 10px; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; p=
adding-bottom: 5px; padding-top: 5px;=22>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/lsr</blockquote>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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--_000_752815590A104F81B358AAE2CBA0DE2Bciscocom_--


From nobody Wed Nov  4 17:15:47 2020
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Aijun Wang'" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: "'Peter Psenak \(ppsenak\)'" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi, Acee:

Thanks for this comments.
The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface =
have been stated in the updated 05 version =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05=
#section-3, as the followings:

   ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link
   attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
   the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
   passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
   appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of
   the interface.

   OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3
   for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
   passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
   Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
   stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.

What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, =
we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated =
the passive interface is appropriate.
If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this =
information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.


Best Regards

Aijun Wang
China Telecom


-----Original Message-----
From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) =
<ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt

Hi Aijun,
You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this =
draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a =
prefix attribute?=20
Thanks,
Acee

=EF=BB=BFOn 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:

    Hi Aijun,=20
    You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than your =
attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no =
other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. =
We seem to be in a circular discussion....=20
    Acee

    On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun =
Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:

        Hi, Acee:
        Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like =
to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
        As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can =
assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.

        Aijun Wang
        China Telecom

        > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
        >=20





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To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Yingzhen Qu'" <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>, <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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------=_NextPart_000_0164_01D6B35A.C626FA00
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Hi, Linda:

=20

Is it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Linda Dunbar
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:44 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests

=20

Acee,=20

=20

Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the =
Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.=20

=20

In a nutshell, the =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that =
are used to represent the Running Status and Environment information of =
the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router:

=20

=C3=98  Load measurement sub-TLV =20

=C3=98  Capacity Index  Sub-TLV                            =20

=C3=98  Preference Index  Sub-TLV                                        =
          =20

=20

Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those =
measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have =
made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.=20

=20

The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the =
router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local =
Data Network.=20

=20

If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the =
extension does seem easier and cleaner:=20

=20

We can have:=20

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Type                          | Length                        |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF            | Flags         |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Address Prefix (variable)                                     |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Load Measurement Sub-TLV                                      |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| capacity Index Sub-TLV                                        |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Site Preference Sub-TLV                                       |=20

~                                                               ~ =20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

=20

=20

RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the =
same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?=20

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.=20

=20

Thank you very much.=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look =
at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization =
requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. =
It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 =
minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the =
many issues.=20

=20

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC =
3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application =
server address).

=20

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.=20

=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM
To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
" <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> " <lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> >
Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> >
Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org =
<mailto:chopps@chopps.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

=20

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,=20

=20

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C83f990f38fe14407efe208d88030=
0245%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637400290992237706%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DCooHUjUYe%2BePz9rwBZe0orzPqku%2BoSL%2FrMVVa%=
2Fl2uIc%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge =
Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.=20

=20

Thank you very much,=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

Hi all,=20

=20

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting =
IETF 109. Please send your requests to  <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration =
(covering presentation and discussion).=20

=20

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
s it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda =
Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 =
extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: =
IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Acee, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much for =
suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and =
environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In a nutshell, the <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute=
-ospf-ext/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-com=
pute-ospf-ext/</a> proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the =
three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and =
Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the =
router:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.55gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Load measurement sub-TLV&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.55gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity Index =
&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.55gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Preference Index&nbsp; =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Several sections of the =
draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need =
them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so =
straightforward when reading in a rush. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>The Goal of the OSPF =
extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be =
advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>If using your suggested =
RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and =
cleaner: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>We can have: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 =
0 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &nbsp;| Length =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Route Type &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| Prefix Length | AF =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
Flags&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Address Prefix (variable) =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Load =
Measurement =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; | <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
capacity Index =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Site =
Preference =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;| <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC7684 only has the =
Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, =
should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define =
a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda =
Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. =
I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with =
standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions =
partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list =
discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t =
have time to discuss the many issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 =
rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics =
should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the =
application server address).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Sub=
ject: </b>Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Resent-To: </b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Christian Hopps =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Resent-=
Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>LSR Chairs, YingZhen, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C83f990f38fe14407e=
fe208d880300245%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637400290992=
237706%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=3DCooHUjUYe%2BePz9rwBZe0orzPqku=
%2BoSL%2FrMVVa%2Fl2uIc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:57.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>This draft describes =
an OSPF extension <a name=3D"_Hlk55221391">that can distribute the 5G =
Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers =
in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Yingzhen Qu<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:5.18gd'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>We're now accepting agenda requests for the =
LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests =
to&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:#954F72'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a>&nbsp;indicating =
draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and =
discussion).&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, =
12:00-14:00 ICT.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Aijun Wang'" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi Aijun,

please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS 
link without forming an adjacency.

thanks,
Peter

On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Acee:
> 
> Thanks for this comments.
> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface have been stated in the updated 05 version https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05#section-3, as the followings:
> 
>     ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link
>     attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>     the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>     passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>     appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of
>     the interface.
> 
>     OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3
>     for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>     passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>     Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
>     stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
> 
> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated the passive interface is appropriate.
> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
> 
> Hi Aijun,
> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a prefix attribute?
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>      Hi Aijun,
>      You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>      Acee
> 
>      On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
> 
>          Hi, Acee:
>          Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>          As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
> 
>          Aijun Wang
>          China Telecom
> 
>          > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>          >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi, Peter:

Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE =
solution. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in =
deployment, as I explained in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/.
And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are connected =
with another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or RFC 5392 =
is not appropriate.

Do you agree?


Best Regards

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

-----Original Message-----
From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt

Hi Aijun,

please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS =
link without forming an adjacency.

thanks,
Peter

On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Acee:
>=20
> Thanks for this comments.
> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface =
have been stated in the updated 05 version =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05=
#section-3, as the followings:
>=20
>     ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the =
link
>     attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>     the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>     passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>     appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute =
of
>     the interface.
>=20
>     OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the =
type 3
>     for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>     passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>     Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated =
with
>     stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>=20
> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, =
we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated =
the passive interface is appropriate.
> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this =
information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>=20
>=20
> Best Regards
>=20
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)=20
> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for=20
> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>=20
> Hi Aijun,
> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this =
draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a =
prefix attribute?
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
>      Hi Aijun,
>      You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than =
your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is =
no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a =
prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>      Acee
>=20
>      On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun =
Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>=20
>          Hi, Acee:
>          Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you =
like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>          As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can =
assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>=20
>          Aijun Wang
>          China Telecom
>=20
>          > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>          >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20
>=20



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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Aijun,

the point I was trying to make was that you should think of a similar 
mechanism for your use cases - e.g. define something that advertises the 
link without advertising the IS adjacency and not mess up with the 
prefix advertisement.

thanks,
Peter

On 05/11/2020 10:09, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
> 
> Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE solution. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in deployment, as I explained in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/.
> And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are connected with another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or RFC 5392 is not appropriate.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee@cisco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
> 
> Hi Aijun,
> 
> please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS link without forming an adjacency.
> 
> thanks,
> Peter
> 
> On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Acee:
>>
>> Thanks for this comments.
>> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface have been stated in the updated 05 version https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05#section-3, as the followings:
>>
>>      ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link
>>      attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>>      the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>>      passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>>      appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of
>>      the interface.
>>
>>      OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3
>>      for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>>      passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>>      Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
>>      stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>>
>> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated the passive interface is appropriate.
>> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
>> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>
>> Hi Aijun,
>> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a prefix attribute?
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>       Hi Aijun,
>>       You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>>       Acee
>>
>>       On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>>
>>           Hi, Acee:
>>           Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>>           As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>>
>>           Aijun Wang
>>           China Telecom
>>
>>           > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>           >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> 
> 


From nobody Thu Nov  5 03:04:59 2020
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From: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
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To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi, Peter:
Then how about defines one new top TLV to flood such information within the I=
GP? Fox example, Stub-Link TLV? If so, other characteristics associated with=
 the Link can also be advertised accordingly.=20

If acceptable, we can forward this draft along this direction.


Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Nov 5, 2020, at 17:15, Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFAijun,
>=20
> the point I was trying to make was that you should think of a similar mech=
anism for your use cases - e.g. define something that advertises the link wi=
thout advertising the IS adjacency and not mess up with the prefix advertise=
ment.
>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>> On 05/11/2020 10:09, Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>> Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE solution=
. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in deployment, as I=
 explained in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY=
_SHnJ7A/.
>> And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are connected w=
ith another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or RFC 5392 is not=
 appropriate.
>> Do you agree?
>> Best Regards
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee@ci=
sco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passiv=
e-interface-attribute-04.txt
>> Hi Aijun,
>> please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS lin=
k without forming an adjacency.
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>> On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>=20
>>> Thanks for this comments.
>>> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface hav=
e been stated in the updated 05 version https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wa=
ng-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05#section-3, as the followings:
>>>=20
>>>     ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link=

>>>     attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>>>     the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>>>     passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>>>     appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of=

>>>     the interface.
>>>=20
>>>     OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3=

>>>     for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>>>     passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>>>     Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
>>>     stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>>>=20
>>> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, w=
e think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated the pas=
sive interface is appropriate.
>>> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this informati=
on, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards
>>>=20
>>> Aijun Wang
>>> China Telecom
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
>>> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>>=20
>>> Hi Aijun,
>>> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this dr=
aft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a prefix a=
ttribute?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>=20
>>>> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>      Hi Aijun,
>>>      You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than you=
r attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no othe=
r reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. We seem=
 to be in a circular discussion....
>>>      Acee
>>>=20
>>>>      On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun W=
ang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>          Hi, Acee:
>>>          Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like=
 to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>>>          As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can a=
ssist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>>>=20
>>>          Aijun Wang
>>>          China Telecom
>>>=20
>>>          > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com=
> wrote:
>>>          >
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>=20
>>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com>, 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/tnJu3-gRCJYBhvkMum1-ezufzsQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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=20

Hi, Linda:

=20

For example,=20

What=E2=80=99s the update frequency of the App server status data?  Will =
it influence the SPF efficiency on each flooding router etc.?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 12:57 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Ai Jun,=20

=20

Can you elaborate more on your proposed =E2=80=9Canalysis for the =
flooding influences=E2=80=9D?=20

=20

Thank you very much.=20

=20

Linda

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:03 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Hi, Linda:

=20

Is it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:44 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; =
Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests

=20

Acee,=20

=20

Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the =
Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.=20

=20

In a nutshell, the =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C3afd55a40224461f77eb08d8812e=
dd22%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401385584020792%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DPz2aNEDCPc2A1tyT1BZg6Hnt%2BoQk802pB19SQY0l4A=
Y%3D&reserved=3D0>  proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the =
three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and =
Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the =
router:

=20

=C3=98  Load measurement sub-TLV =20

=C3=98  Capacity Index  Sub-TLV                            =20

=C3=98  Preference Index  Sub-TLV                                        =
          =20

=20

Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those =
measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have =
made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.=20

=20

The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the =
router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local =
Data Network.=20

=20

If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the =
extension does seem easier and cleaner:=20

=20

We can have:=20

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Type                          | Length                        |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF            | Flags         |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Address Prefix (variable)                                     |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Load Measurement Sub-TLV                                      |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| capacity Index Sub-TLV                                        |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Site Preference Sub-TLV                                       |=20

~                                                               ~ =20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

=20

=20

RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the =
same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?=20

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.=20

=20

Thank you very much.=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look =
at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization =
requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. =
It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 =
minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the =
many issues.=20

=20

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC =
3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application =
server address).

=20

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.=20

=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM
To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
" <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> " <lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> >
Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> >
Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org =
<mailto:chopps@chopps.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

=20

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,=20

=20

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C3afd55a40224461f77eb08d8812e=
dd22%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401385584030748%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D%2FhlxyiWkenFeMzyPKNyXi%2BVfz5IeGGs%2BcW54R4=
91da0%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge =
Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.=20

=20

Thank you very much,=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

Hi all,=20

=20

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting =
IETF 109. Please send your requests to  <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration =
(covering presentation and discussion).=20

=20

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen


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lang=3DEN-US =
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o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
or example, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
hat=E2=80=99s the update frequency of the App server status data?=C2=A0 =
Will it influence the SPF efficiency on each flooding router =
etc.?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar =
[mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 6, =
2020 12:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' &lt;yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; =
lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question =
on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ai Jun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you elaborate more on your proposed =E2=80=9Canalysis =
for the flooding influences=E2=80=9D? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
s it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, =
2020 6:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Acee, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much for =
suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and =
environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In a nutshell, the <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C3afd55a40224461f7=
7eb08d8812edd22%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401385584=
020792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DPz2aNEDCPc2A1tyT1BZg6Hnt%2BoQ=
k802pB19SQY0l4AY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a> proposes the extension to =
LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the =
Running Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing =
Servers attached to the router:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.46gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Load measurement sub-TLV&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.46gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity Index =
&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.46gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Preference Index&nbsp; =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Several sections of the =
draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need =
them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so =
straightforward when reading in a rush. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>The Goal of the OSPF =
extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be =
advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>If using your suggested =
RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and =
cleaner: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>We can have: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 =
0 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &nbsp;| Length =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Route Type &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| Prefix Length | AF =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
Flags&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-autospace:no=
ne'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Address Prefix (variable) =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Load =
Measurement =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; | <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
capacity Index =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Site =
Preference =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;| <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC7684 only has the =
Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, =
should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define =
a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda =
Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. =
I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with =
standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions =
partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list =
discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t =
have time to discuss the many issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 =
rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics =
should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the =
application server address).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Sub=
ject: </b>Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Resent-To: </b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Christian Hopps =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Resent-=
Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>LSR Chairs, YingZhen, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C3afd55a40224461f7=
7eb08d8812edd22%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401385584=
030748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D%2FhlxyiWkenFeMzyPKNyXi%2BVfz=
5IeGGs%2BcW54R491da0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:78.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>This draft describes =
an OSPF extension <a name=3D"_Hlk55221391">that can distribute the 5G =
Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers =
in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Yingzhen Qu<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:7.09gd'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>We're now accepting agenda requests for the =
LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests =
to&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:#954F72'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a>&nbsp;indicating =
draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and =
discussion).&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, =
12:00-14:00 ICT.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Yingzhen</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Peter Psenak'" <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "'Yingzhen Qu'" <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>, <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/Yb7vZIEL3RJ8XFQyKOIZtHJ_SQM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Hi, Linda, Acee, Jeff and Peter:

=20

>From this use case, together with another =
draft(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute/) that we are proposing and discussing, as in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/imojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKjbxM/

It is more convincible to define one new top TLV, for example, Stub-Link =
TLV, to contain your current proposed sub-TLV, and other futures =
information.

=20

The information contained within the Stub-Link TLV, will not participate =
the SPF calculation on each router. =20

It is more clear than to put this information associated with the Prefix =
TLV.

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Linda Dunbar
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 12:04 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; Jeff Tantsura =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; =
lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Jeff and Acee,=20

=20

I understand that RFC8362 has specifies Extended Prefix TLV for IPv6.

=20

Since there are two separate RFCs for the Extended Prefix TLV, one for =
IPv4 and another one for IPv6,  I was asking if the Sub-TLVs proposed =
for 5G Edge Computing needs to have two separate drafts: one for IPv4 =
and another one for IPv6?   Or just one draft to describe the extension =
to both RFCs?=20

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.=20

=20

Linda

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> ; Linda Dunbar =
<linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Exactly.=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, =
"lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> " <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> " <lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> >, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362)

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >, wrote:

Acee,

=20

Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the =
Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

=20

In a nutshell, the  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C5c9f2260a6984c7cdfbc08d88123=
af6d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401337583331433%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DbRU%2BTD46TwVTPym%2B3Xolyd5vtZhx62Hd9m1XOerH=
b1I%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that =
are used to represent the Running Status and Environment information of =
the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router:

=20

 =E2=80=A2 Load measurement sub-TLV=20

 =E2=80=A2 Capacity Index  Sub-TLV                           =20

 =E2=80=A2 Preference Index  Sub-TLV                                     =
             =20

=20

Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those =
measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have =
made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.

=20

The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the =
router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local =
Data Network.

=20

If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the =
extension does seem easier and cleaner:

=20

We can have:

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Type                          | Length                        |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF            | Flags         |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Address Prefix (variable)                                     |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| Load Measurement Sub-TLV                                      |

~                                                               ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| capacity Index Sub-TLV                                        |

~                                                               ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| Site Preference Sub-TLV                                       |

~                                                               ~ =20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

=20

=20

RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the =
same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

=20

Thank you very much.

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >

Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM

To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20

Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look =
at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization =
requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. =
It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 =
minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the =
many issues.

=20

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC =
3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application =
server address).

=20

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Linda Dunbar < <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> =
linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>

Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

To: Yingzhen Qu < <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> =
yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, " <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org>, " <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org" < <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> lsr-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

Resent-From: < <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> alias-bounces@ietf.org>

Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu < <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> =
yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem < <mailto:acee@cisco.com> =
acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps < <mailto:chopps@chopps.org> =
chopps@chopps.org>

Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

=20

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,

=20

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C5c9f2260a6984c7cdfbc08d88123=
af6d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401337583341426%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DNghZMuTjdjOpHn0I5eCocGSvqYCQgJAWjYTrtmsWGY4%=
3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge =
Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.

=20

Thank you very much,

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20

Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

Hi all,=20

=20

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting =
IETF 109. Please send your requests to  <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration =
(covering presentation and discussion).=20

=20

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>=20

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda, Acee, Jeff and Peter:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
rom this use case, together with another draft(<a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface=
-attribute/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute/</a>) that we are proposing and discussing, as in <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/imojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QK=
jbxM/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/imojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKj=
bxM/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
t is more convincible to define one new top TLV, for example, Stub-Link =
TLV, to contain your current proposed sub-TLV, and other futures =
information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he information contained within the Stub-Link TLV, will not participate =
the SPF calculation on each router. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
t is more clear than to put this information associated with the Prefix =
TLV.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda =
Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 6, 2020 12:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; Jeff Tantsura =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Question on using =
OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing =
(was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff and Acee, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I understand that </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC8362 has specifies Extended =
Prefix TLV for IPv6.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Since there are two =
separate RFCs for the Extended Prefix TLV, one for IPv4 and another one =
for IPv6, &nbsp;I was asking if the Sub-TLVs proposed for 5G Edge =
Computing needs to have two separate drafts: one for IPv4 and another =
one for IPv6? &nbsp;&nbsp;Or just one draft to describe the extension to =
both RFCs? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 6:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended =
Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 =
LSR Presentation Slot Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Exactly. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee =
Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended =
Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 =
LSR Presentation Slot Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs =
(RFC8362)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;, wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Acee,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much for =
suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and =
environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In a nutshell, =
the&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C5c9f2260a6984c7cd=
fbc08d88123af6d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401337583=
331433%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DbRU%2BTD46TwVTPym%2B3Xolyd5vt=
Zhx62Hd9m1XOerHb1I%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-o=
spf-ext/</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;proposes the extension to LSA =
that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running =
Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers =
attached to the router:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Load measurement =
sub-TLV&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity =
Index&nbsp;&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Preference =
Index&nbsp;&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Several sections of the =
draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need =
them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so =
straightforward when reading in a rush.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>The Goal of the OSPF =
extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be =
advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>If using your suggested =
RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and =
cleaner:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>We can =
have:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 =
0 1</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Length&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Route Type&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;| Prefix Length | AF&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Flags&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Address Prefix (variable)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Load =
Measurement Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
capacity Index Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Site =
Preference Sub-TLV&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC7684 only has the =
Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, =
should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define =
a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very =
much.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda =
Dunbar</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for =
5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. =
I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with =
standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions =
partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list =
discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t =
have time to discuss the many =
issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 =
rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics =
should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the =
application server =
address).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF =
109.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>F=
rom:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Linda Dunbar &lt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</span></a></span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>D=
ate:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Monday, November 2, 2020 at =
10:12 PM</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
o:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, =
&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, =
&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>S=
ubject:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Need 10 minute slot to =
discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR =
Presentation Slot Requests</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-From:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&lt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>alias-bounces@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-To:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Acee Lindem =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>acee@cisco.com</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Christian =
Hopps &lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>chopps@chopps.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-Date:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Monday, November 2, 2020 at =
10:12 PM</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>LSR Chairs, =
YingZhen,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C5c9f2260a6984c7cd=
fbc08d88123af6d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637401337583=
341426%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DNghZMuTjdjOpHn0I5eCocGSvqYCQg=
JAWjYTrtmsWGY4%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-ed=
ge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute =
the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other =
routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on =
optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency =
and performance for 5G Edge Computing =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very =
much,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&nbsp;<strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>On Behalf =
Of</span></strong>&nbsp;Yingzhen =
Qu<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;[Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>We're now accepting agenda requests for the =
LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests =
to&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;indicating draft name, speaker, and =
desired duration (covering presentation and =
discussion).&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, =
12:00-14:00 ICT.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Yingzhen</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bloc=
kquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></b=
ody></html>
------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D6B420.15EE24D0--


From nobody Fri Nov  6 06:45:00 2020
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com>, 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
Thread-Index: AQHWsxe8qmR/zff+uECQFm4yhpMuJKm5wtFggACNDgCAANzLQA==
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:44:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com>, 'Peter Psenak' <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>,  "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/5DSNiazXQESZ3WK11ioyww4lG3k>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, lsr@ietf.org
References: <eb5f2be3-f2fb-2a3e-7034-07690d061bdd@cisco.com> <204560AE-A58C-49C3-A882-2AE8FF145D0A@chinatelecom.cn>
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Aijun,

On 05/11/2020 12:04, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
> Then how about defines one new top TLV to flood such information within the IGP? Fox example, Stub-Link TLV? If so, other characteristics associated with the Link can also be advertised accordingly.

yes, unless you can use or extend the existing inter-AS link advertisement.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> If acceptable, we can forward this draft along this direction.
> 
> 
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> 
>> On Nov 5, 2020, at 17:15, Peter Psenak <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> Aijun,
>>
>> the point I was trying to make was that you should think of a similar mechanism for your use cases - e.g. define something that advertises the link without advertising the IS adjacency and not mess up with the prefix advertisement.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>> On 05/11/2020 10:09, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> Hi, Peter:
>>> Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE solution. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in deployment, as I explained in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/.
>>> And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are connected with another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or RFC 5392 is not appropriate.
>>> Do you agree?
>>> Best Regards
>>> Aijun Wang
>>> China Telecom
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee@cisco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>> Hi Aijun,
>>> please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS link without forming an adjacency.
>>> thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>> On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this comments.
>>>> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface have been stated in the updated 05 version https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05#section-3, as the followings:
>>>>
>>>>      ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link
>>>>      attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>>>>      the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>>>>      passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>>>>      appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of
>>>>      the interface.
>>>>
>>>>      OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3
>>>>      for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>>>>      passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>>>>      Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
>>>>      stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated the passive interface is appropriate.
>>>> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>> China Telecom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
>>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
>>>> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
>>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>>>
>>>> Hi Aijun,
>>>> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a prefix attribute?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>       Hi Aijun,
>>>>       You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>>>>       Acee
>>>>
>>>>>       On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>           Hi, Acee:
>>>>           Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>>>>           As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>>>>
>>>>           Aijun Wang
>>>>           China Telecom
>>>>
>>>>           > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>           >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
> 
> 
> 


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Subject: [Lsr] Draft LSR IETF 109 Agenda Available
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--0000000000005463c805b376d05a
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Hi all,

The draft agenda for LSR meeting is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/109/agenda/agenda-109-lsr-01.html

Please take a look and let us know if you have any questions or if we
have missed anything.

Presenters:

Please send your slides to lsr-chairs@ietf.org no later than the Friday
before our meeting.

Thanks,
Yingzhen

--0000000000005463c805b376d05a
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<div><br></div><d=
iv>The draft agenda for LSR meeting is available at:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https:=
//www.ietf.org/proceedings/109/agenda/agenda-109-lsr-01.html">https://www.i=
etf.org/proceedings/109/agenda/agenda-109-lsr-01.html</a>=C2=A0</div><div><=
br></div><div>Please take a look and let us know if=C2=A0you have any quest=
ions or if we have=C2=A0missed anything.</div><div><br></div><div>Presenter=
s:</div><div><br></div><div>Please send your slides to <a href=3D"mailto:ls=
r-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a> no later than the Friday</div>be=
fore our meeting.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Yi=
ngzhen</div></div></div>

--0000000000005463c805b376d05a--


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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "ISIS Extensions in Support of Inter-AS MPLS and GMPLS TE" - draft-chen-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-02
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "ISIS Extensions in Support of Inter-AS MPLS and GMPLS TE" - draft-chen-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-02
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Yingzhen Qu'" <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>, <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Hi, Linda:

=20

If the Load Measurement interval is 3600 seconds, I think it is =
acceptable. But can such long interval meet the requirement of the edge =
computing? And if the user specified one very short period, will it =
influence the performance of SPF calculation on each router?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 10:45 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Aijun,=20

=20

There are three Metrics to be collected for 5G Edge Computing servers, =
to be carried by the three corresponding  Sub-TLVs proposed by the =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/=20

=20

-   IP-Layer Metric for App Server Load Measurement:

Two types of Load Measurement Sub-TLVs are specified. One is to carry =
the aggregated cost Index based on weighted combination of the collected =
measurements; another one is to carry the raw measurements of =
packets/bytes to/from the App Server address. The raw measurement is =
useful when the egress routers cannot be configured with a consistent =
algorithm to compute the aggregated load index and the raw measurements =
are needed by a central analytic system.

=20

-   Capacity Index

Capacity Index is used to differentiate the running environment of the =
application server. Some data centers can have hundreds, or thousands, =
of servers behind an Application Server=E2=80=99s App Layer Load =
Balancer that is reachable from external world. Other data centers can =
have very small number of servers for the application server. =
=E2=80=9CCapacity Index=E2=80=9D, which is a numeric number, is used to =
represent the capacity of the application server in a specific location.

=20

-   Site preference index:=20

[IPv6-StickyService] describes a scenario that some sites are more =
preferred for handling an application than others for flows from a =
specific UE.=20

=20

The Update frequency for the 3 sub-TLVs can be different. The Site =
Preference Index and the Capacity Index should be in the same frequency =
as the Extended Prefix TLV because as the Application Server Prefix =
changes, their corresponding Site Preference and the Capacity Index =
would change as well. =20

The Update frequency for the Load Measurement should be high to reflect =
the running load of the App servers. Currently, default is 3600 seconds, =
but can also be a user specified period in seconds.=20

=20

=20

Any other suggestions or comments?=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >=20
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:21 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

=20

Hi, Linda:

=20

For example,=20

What=E2=80=99s the update frequency of the App server status data?  Will =
it influence the SPF efficiency on each flooding router etc.?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com]=20
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 12:57 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Ai Jun,=20

=20

Can you elaborate more on your proposed =E2=80=9Canalysis for the =
flooding influences=E2=80=9D?=20

=20

Thank you very much.=20

=20

Linda

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:03 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Hi, Linda:

=20

Is it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:44 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; =
Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests

=20

Acee,=20

=20

Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the =
Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.=20

=20

In a nutshell, the =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2f1c51ec07de4cfced5908d881f2=
2dc4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402224453498580%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Dd%2B5SQkJSd40ykZDuqxL0U1RNdKiFiXR%2FPljSgqrE=
0gw%3D&reserved=3D0>  proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the =
three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and =
Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the =
router:

=20

=C3=98  Load measurement sub-TLV =20

=C3=98  Capacity Index  Sub-TLV                            =20

=C3=98  Preference Index  Sub-TLV                                        =
          =20

=20

Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those =
measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have =
made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.=20

=20

The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the =
router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local =
Data Network.=20

=20

If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the =
extension does seem easier and cleaner:=20

=20

We can have:=20

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Type                          | Length                        |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF            | Flags         |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Address Prefix (variable)                                     |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Load Measurement Sub-TLV                                      |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| capacity Index Sub-TLV                                        |=20

~                                                               ~=20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

| Site Preference Sub-TLV                                       |=20

~                                                               ~ =20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  =20

=20

=20

RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the =
same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?=20

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.=20

=20

Thank you very much.=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look =
at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization =
requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. =
It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 =
minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the =
many issues.=20

=20

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC =
3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application =
server address).

=20

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.=20

=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM
To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
" <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> " <lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> >
Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> >
Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org =
<mailto:chopps@chopps.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

=20

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,=20

=20

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2f1c51ec07de4cfced5908d881f2=
2dc4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402224453508393%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DMSNE4hXo5LnoLkFH3Y7vTN9Ov5Wcq6LKlz0PrqkmQfA%=
3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge =
Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.=20

=20

Thank you very much,=20

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

Hi all,=20

=20

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting =
IETF 109. Please send your requests to  <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration =
(covering presentation and discussion).=20

=20

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
f the Load Measurement interval is 3600 seconds, I think it is =
acceptable. But can such long interval meet the requirement of the edge =
computing? And if the user specified one very short period, will it =
influence the performance of SPF calculation on each =
router?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar =
[mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 6, =
2020 10:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' &lt;yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; =
lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question =
on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Aijun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>There are three Metrics to be collected for 5G Edge =
Computing servers, to be carried by the three corresponding =
&nbsp;Sub-TLVs proposed by the </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute=
-ospf-ext/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-com=
pute-ospf-ext/</a></span><span lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.55pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:3.87gd;ms=
o-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;page-break-after:avoid;m=
so-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>IP-Layer Metric for =
App Server Load Measurement:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.6pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-ma=
rgin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:5.51gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Two types of Load =
Measurement Sub-TLVs are specified. One is to carry the aggregated cost =
Index based on weighted combination of the collected measurements; =
another one is to carry the raw measurements of packets/bytes to/from =
the App Server address. The raw measurement is useful when the egress =
routers cannot be configured with a consistent algorithm to compute the =
aggregated load index and the raw measurements are needed by a central =
analytic system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:21.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-ma=
rgin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.55pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:3.87gd;ms=
o-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;page-break-after:avoid;m=
so-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity =
Index<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.6pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-ma=
rgin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:5.51gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity Index is =
used to differentiate the running environment of the application server. =
Some data centers can have hundreds, or thousands, of servers behind an =
Application Server=E2=80=99s App Layer Load Balancer that is reachable =
from external world. Other data centers can have very small number of =
servers for the application server. =E2=80=9CCapacity Index=E2=80=9D, =
which is a numeric number, is used to represent the capacity of the =
application server in a specific location.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.6pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-ma=
rgin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:5.51gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.55pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:3.87gd;ms=
o-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;page-break-after:avoid;m=
so-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Site preference =
index: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:60.6pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;mso-para-ma=
rgin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:5.51gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;page-break-after:avoid'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>[IPv6-StickyService] describes a scenario that some sites =
are more preferred for handling an application than others for flows =
from a specific UE. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The Update frequency for the 3 sub-TLVs can be different. =
The Site Preference Index and the Capacity Index should be in the same =
frequency as the Extended Prefix TLV because as the Application Server =
Prefix changes, their corresponding Site Preference and the Capacity =
Index would change as well.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The Update frequency for the Load Measurement should be =
high to reflect the running load of the App servers. Currently, default =
is 3600 seconds, but can also be a user specified period in seconds. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Any other suggestions or comments? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
or example, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
hat</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E2=
=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s the update frequency of the App server status =
data?&nbsp; Will it influence the SPF efficiency on each flooding router =
etc.?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar [<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.=
com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 6, 2020 12:57 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ai Jun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you elaborate more on your proposed =E2=80=9Canalysis =
for the flooding influences=E2=80=9D? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
s it better to add some analysis for the flooding influences on the =
router performance when we add such dynamic information within the IGP =
protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, =
2020 6:44 AM<br><b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Acee, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much for =
suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and =
environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In a nutshell, the <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2f1c51ec07de4cfce=
d5908d881f22dc4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402224453=
498580%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3Dd%2B5SQkJSd40ykZDuqxL0U1RNdKi=
FiXR%2FPljSgqrE0gw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a> proposes the extension to =
LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the =
Running Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing =
Servers attached to the router:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.37gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Load measurement sub-TLV&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.37gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity Index =
&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.37gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=C3=98<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Preference Index&nbsp; =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Several sections of the =
draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need =
them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so =
straightforward when reading in a rush. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>The Goal of the OSPF =
extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be =
advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>If using your suggested =
RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and =
cleaner: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>We can have: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 =
0 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; &nbsp;| Length =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Route Type &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| Prefix Length | AF =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
Flags&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd;text-autospace:n=
one'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>| Address Prefix (variable) =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Load =
Measurement =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; | <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
capacity Index =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;| =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Site =
Preference =
Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;| <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~ &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC7684 only has the =
Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, =
should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define =
a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda =
Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. =
I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with =
standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions =
partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list =
discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t =
have time to discuss the many issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 =
rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics =
should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the =
application server address).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:63.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.73gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Sub=
ject: </b>Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<br><b>Resent-From: </b>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Resent-To: </b>Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Christian Hopps =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org">chopps@chopps.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Resent-=
Date: </b>Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>LSR Chairs, YingZhen, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C2f1c51ec07de4cfce=
d5908d881f22dc4%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402224453=
508393%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DMSNE4hXo5LnoLkFH3Y7vTN9Ov5Wcq=
6LKlz0PrqkmQfA%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-left:99.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>This draft describes =
an OSPF extension <a name=3D"_Hlk55221391">that can distribute the 5G =
Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers =
in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very much, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Yingzhen Qu<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:9=
9.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:9.0gd'><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>We're now accepting agenda requests for the =
LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests =
to&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:#954F72'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a>&nbsp;indicating =
draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and =
discussion).&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, =
12:00-14:00 ICT.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:99.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>Yingzhen</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Linda Dunbar'" <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Peter Psenak'" <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "'Yingzhen Qu'" <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>, <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/KxTLq4pCMRHhHHEcYX5Tsr-AKT4>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests
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Hi, Linda:

=20

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 1:27 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com>; 'Peter Psenak' <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; =
'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Aijun,=20

=20

I read through your draft, need to clarify a few things:

=20

1.       Is your =E2=80=9CPassive Link=E2=80=9D same as the =
=E2=80=9CStub Link=E2=80=9D?=20

[WAJ] Yes.

2.       Are you suggesting that the =E2=80=9CPassive Link=E2=80=9D to =
be advertised less often than the regular LSA?=20

[WAJ] No. It is same.

=20

Thank you,=20

=20

Linda

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >=20
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:35 PM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; 'Peter Psenak' =
<ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >; 'Yingzhen =
Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Hi, Linda, Acee, Jeff and Peter:

=20

>From this use case, together with another =
draft(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute%2F&da=
ta=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98fa08d881f=
42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049926010%7CU=
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi=
LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DUUGE%2F6VXzQTnAYEqHq8y91zfRlorFitl9wpF5lqiS=
qI%3D&reserved=3D0> ) that we are proposing and discussing, as in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/imojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKjbxM/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmail=
archive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Flsr%2FimojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKjbxM%2F&data=
=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98fa08d881f42=
cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049926010%7CUnk=
nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC=
JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DyYJ1hceIJEGByWaTha6PjowYkoa0Hbsn0Ekup2pRCpk%3=
D&reserved=3D0>=20

It is more convincible to define one new top TLV, for example, Stub-Link =
TLV, to contain your current proposed sub-TLV, and other futures =
information.

=20

The information contained within the Stub-Link TLV, will not participate =
the SPF calculation on each router. =20

It is more clear than to put this information associated with the Prefix =
TLV.

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
[mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 12:04 AM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; Jeff =
Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Jeff and Acee,=20

=20

I understand that RFC8362 has specifies Extended Prefix TLV for IPv6.

=20

Since there are two separate RFCs for the Extended Prefix TLV, one for =
IPv4 and another one for IPv6,  I was asking if the Sub-TLVs proposed =
for 5G Edge Computing needs to have two separate drafts: one for IPv4 =
and another one for IPv6?   Or just one draft to describe the extension =
to both RFCs?=20

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.=20

=20

Linda

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 6:42 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> ; Linda Dunbar =
<linda.dunbar@futurewei.com <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

Exactly.=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >, =
"lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> " <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> " <lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> >, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the =
OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation =
Slot Requests

=20

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362)

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >, wrote:

Acee,

=20

Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the =
Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

=20

In a nutshell, the  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98fa08d881f4=
2cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049936011%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3D3zom9hRpZxml8ZcHRYSlvT%2B%2B8slMqI4Wkz8i%2Bs=
q%2F78o%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that =
are used to represent the Running Status and Environment information of =
the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router:

=20

 =E2=80=A2 Load measurement sub-TLV=20

 =E2=80=A2 Capacity Index  Sub-TLV                           =20

 =E2=80=A2 Preference Index  Sub-TLV                                     =
             =20

=20

Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those =
measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have =
made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.

=20

The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the =
router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local =
Data Network.

=20

If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the =
extension does seem easier and cleaner:

=20

We can have:

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Type                          | Length                        |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF            | Flags         |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| Address Prefix (variable)                                     |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| Load Measurement Sub-TLV                                      |

~                                                               ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| capacity Index Sub-TLV                                        |

~                                                               ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

| Site Preference Sub-TLV                                       |

~                                                               ~ =20

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20

=20

=20

RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server =
addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the =
same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

=20

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

=20

Thank you very much.

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >

Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM

To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com =
<mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> >; Yingzhen Qu =
<yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> >; =
lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20

Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look =
at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization =
requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. =
It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 =
minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the =
many issues.

=20

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC =
3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be =
associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application =
server address).

=20

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Linda Dunbar < <mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> =
linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>

Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

To: Yingzhen Qu < <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> =
yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, " <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org" < =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org>, " <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org" < <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> lsr-chairs@ietf.org>

Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge =
Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

Resent-From: < <mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org> alias-bounces@ietf.org>

Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu < <mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com> =
yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem < <mailto:acee@cisco.com> =
acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps < <mailto:chopps@chopps.org> =
chopps@chopps.org>

Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

=20

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,

=20

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex=
t/ =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext%2F&dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98fa08d881f4=
2cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049946003%7CUn=
known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL=
CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Dz51rG6ODVK7sj2xlLkn2utpzw1e0NbXhY%2BO8hDm%2F=
8hQ%3D&reserved=3D0>=20

=20

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge =
Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in =
the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing =
forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and =
performance for 5G Edge Computing services.

=20

Thank you very much,

=20

Linda Dunbar

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org>=20

Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

=20

Hi all,=20

=20

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting =
IETF 109. Please send your requests to  <mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org> =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration =
(covering presentation and discussion).=20

=20

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>=20

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flsr&data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futur=
ewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98fa08d881f42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049956004%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj=
AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3Ds7uVU=
m1L5QDDsOZF6rZS6qg45fEHepOq8la9IJ4ejJo%3D&reserved=3D0>=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Linda Dunbar =
[mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November =
7, 2020 1:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; 'Peter Psenak' =
&lt;ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; 'Yingzhen Qu' =
&lt;yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org; =
lsr-chairs@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using =
OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing =
(was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Aijun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I read through your draft, need to clarify a few =
things:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.55gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span =
lang=3DEN-US><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt =
"Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Is your =
=E2=80=9CPassive Link=E2=80=9D same as the =E2=80=9CStub Link=E2=80=9D? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:42.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] Yes.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.05pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.55gd;text-indent:-18.=
0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span =
lang=3DEN-US><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt =
"Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>Are you<b><i><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span></i></b>suggesting that the =
=E2=80=9CPassive Link=E2=80=9D to be advertised less often than the =
regular LSA? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:42.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] No. It is same.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; 'Peter Psenak' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">ppsenak=3D40cisco.co=
m@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
'Yingzhen Qu' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Linda, Acee, Jeff and Peter:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
rom this use case, together with another draft(<a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe=
98fa08d881f42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63740223304=
9926010%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT=
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DUUGE%2F6VXzQTnAYEqHq8y91zfRl=
orFitl9wpF5lqiSqI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/</a>) that we are proposing =
and discussing, as in <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Flsr%2FimojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKjbxM%=
2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe98=
fa08d881f42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C6374022330499=
26010%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI=
6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DyYJ1hceIJEGByWaTha6PjowYkoa0Hb=
sn0Ekup2pRCpk%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/=
lsr/imojDOsS3W3B2H2SbmUT0QKjbxM/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
t is more convincible to define one new top TLV, for example, Stub-Link =
TLV, to contain your current proposed sub-TLV, and other futures =
information.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he information contained within the Stub-Link TLV, will not participate =
the SPF calculation on each router. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
t is more clear than to put this information associated with the Prefix =
TLV.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Linda Dunbar<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 6, =
2020 12:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Jeff Tantsura =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject=
:</b> Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF =
extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff and Acee, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I understand that </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC8362 has specifies Extended =
Prefix TLV for IPv6.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Since there are two =
separate RFCs for the Extended Prefix TLV, one for IPv4 and another one =
for IPv6, &nbsp;I was asking if the Sub-TLVs proposed for 5G Edge =
Computing needs to have two separate drafts: one for IPv4 and another =
one for IPv6? &nbsp;&nbsp;Or just one draft to describe the extension to =
both RFCs? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 6:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended =
Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 =
LSR Presentation Slot Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Exactly. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<br>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:3.82gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM<br><b>To: </b>Acee =
Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Linda =
Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended =
Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 =
LSR Presentation Slot Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div =
name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs =
(RFC8362)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;, wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Acee,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very much for =
suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and =
environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In a nutshell, =
the&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe9=
8fa08d881f42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049=
936011%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3D3zom9hRpZxml8ZcHRYSlvT%2B%2B8=
slMqI4Wkz8i%2Bsq%2F78o%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-o=
spf-ext/</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;proposes the extension to LSA =
that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running =
Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers =
attached to the router:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Load measurement =
sub-TLV&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Capacity =
Index&nbsp;&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;=E2=80=A2&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Preference =
Index&nbsp;&nbsp;Sub-TLV&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Several sections of the =
draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need =
them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so =
straightforward when reading in a rush.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>The Goal of the OSPF =
extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be =
advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>If using your suggested =
RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and =
cleaner:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>We can =
have:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 =
0 1</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Type&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Length&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Route Type&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;| Prefix Length | AF&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Flags&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+</=
span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
Address Prefix (variable)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Load =
Measurement Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| =
capacity Index Sub-TLV&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>| Site =
Preference Sub-TLV&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>~&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;~&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>RFC7684 only has the =
Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, =
should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define =
a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Your guidance is =
greatly appreciated.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Thank you very =
much.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Linda =
Dunbar</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Linda Dunbar &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</a>=
&gt;; Yingzhen Qu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com">yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></blockquote><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for =
5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. =
I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with =
standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions =
partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list =
discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t =
have time to discuss the many =
issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 =
rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics =
should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the =
application server =
address).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF =
109.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>F=
rom:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Linda Dunbar &lt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>linda.dunbar@futurewei.com</span></a></span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>D=
ate:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Monday, November 2, 2020 at =
10:12 PM</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>T=
o:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, =
&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, =
&quot;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot; =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>S=
ubject:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Need 10 minute slot to =
discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR =
Presentation Slot Requests</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-From:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;&lt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>alias-bounces@ietf.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-To:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Yingzhen Qu =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Acee Lindem =
&lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>acee@cisco.com</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;, Christian =
Hopps &lt;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:chopps@chopps.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>chopps@chopps.org</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&gt;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>R=
esent-Date:</span></strong><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;Monday, November 2, 2020 at =
10:12 PM</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>LSR Chairs, =
YingZhen,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext=
%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cf8b544146d184bfe9=
8fa08d881f42cb5%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637402233049=
946003%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3Dz51rG6ODVK7sj2xlLkn2utpzw1e0N=
bXhY%2BO8hDm%2F8hQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-ed=
ge-compute-ospf-ext/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute =
the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other =
routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on =
optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency =
and performance for 5G Edge Computing =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you very =
much,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&nbsp;<strong><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>On Behalf =
Of</span></strong>&nbsp;Yingzhen =
Qu<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>To:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-chairs@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C =
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></strong><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;[Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot =
Requests<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Hi all,&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>We're now accepting agenda requests for the =
LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests =
to&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:lsr-chairs@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif'>lsr-chairs@ietf.org</span></a></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;indicating draft name, speaker, and =
desired duration (covering presentation and =
discussion).&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, =
12:00-14:00 ICT.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.09gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman",serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1ABC9C 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
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From nobody Sun Nov  8 22:35:27 2020
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Peter Psenak'" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "'Aijun Wang'" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, <lsr@ietf.org>
References: <eb5f2be3-f2fb-2a3e-7034-07690d061bdd@cisco.com> <204560AE-A58C-49C3-A882-2AE8FF145D0A@chinatelecom.cn> <319f9938-f2b5-2f50-c4d0-7813c226847d@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/PPtY77JOvzekRpLE2KCCvjkZ2D8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi, Peter:

Currently, the inter-AS link TLV is advertised within the =
Inter-AS-TE-LSA for OSPF and Inter-AS Reachability TLV for ISIS.
But I think these two places are not suitable for the stub-link =
information.

It seems that separating the stub-link information from the inter-as =
link information is better, because not all of the stub-links are =
inter-as link.=20
If so, can we put the newly defined Stub-Link TLV within the Router LSA =
for OSPF and make it one new top TLV for ISIS?


Best Regards

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 1:56 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt

Aijun,

On 05/11/2020 12:04, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
> Then how about defines one new top TLV to flood such information =
within the IGP? Fox example, Stub-Link TLV? If so, other characteristics =
associated with the Link can also be advertised accordingly.

yes, unless you can use or extend the existing inter-AS link =
advertisement.

thanks,
Peter

>=20
> If acceptable, we can forward this draft along this direction.
>=20
>=20
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
>=20
>> On Nov 5, 2020, at 17:15, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>
>> Aijun,
>>
>> the point I was trying to make was that you should think of a similar =
mechanism for your use cases - e.g. define something that advertises the =
link without advertising the IS adjacency and not mess up with the =
prefix advertisement.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>> On 05/11/2020 10:09, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>> Hi, Peter:
>>> Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE =
solution. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in =
deployment, as I explained in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/.
>>> And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are =
connected with another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or =
RFC 5392 is not appropriate.
>>> Do you agree?
>>> Best Regards
>>> Aijun Wang
>>> China Telecom
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'=20
>>> <acee@cisco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for=20
>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>> Hi Aijun,
>>> please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise =
inter-AS link without forming an adjacency.
>>> thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>> On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this comments.
>>>> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive =
interface have been stated in the updated 05 version =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05=
#section-3, as the followings:
>>>>
>>>>      ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry =
the link
>>>>      attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried =
within
>>>>      the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  =
For
>>>>      passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>>>>      appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive =
attribute of
>>>>      the interface.
>>>>
>>>>      OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the =
type 3
>>>>      for connections to a stub network can be used to identified =
the
>>>>      passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>>>>      Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated =
with
>>>>      stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>>>>
>>>> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? =
Currently, we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that =
associated the passive interface is appropriate.
>>>> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this =
information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>> China Telecom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
>>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)=20
>>>> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for=20
>>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>>>
>>>> Hi Aijun,
>>>> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework =
this draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather =
than a prefix attribute?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>       Hi Aijun,
>>>>       You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other =
than your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, =
there is no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute =
with a prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>>>>       Acee
>>>>
>>>>>       On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of =
Aijun Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>           Hi, Acee:
>>>>           Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would =
you like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>>>>           As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces =
can assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>>>>
>>>>           Aijun Wang
>>>>           China Telecom
>>>>
>>>>           > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>           >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20



From nobody Mon Nov  9 01:44:02 2020
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi Aijun,

On 09/11/2020 07:35, Aijun Wang wrote:
> Hi, Peter:
> 
> Currently, the inter-AS link TLV is advertised within the Inter-AS-TE-LSA for OSPF and Inter-AS Reachability TLV for ISIS.
> But I think these two places are not suitable for the stub-link information.
> 
> It seems that separating the stub-link information from the inter-as link information is better, because not all of the stub-links are inter-as link.
> If so, can we put the newly defined Stub-Link TLV within the Router LSA for OSPF and make it one new top TLV for ISIS?

Router LSA does not have TLVs, you would have to add the data to 
Extended Prefix Link TLV (RFC7684), or define a net top-level TLV under 
the OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA.

For ISIS you don't have a choice really, you need to define a new 
top-level TLV.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 1:56 AM
> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
> 
> Aijun,
> 
> On 05/11/2020 12:04, Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>> Then how about defines one new top TLV to flood such information within the IGP? Fox example, Stub-Link TLV? If so, other characteristics associated with the Link can also be advertised accordingly.
> 
> yes, unless you can use or extend the existing inter-AS link advertisement.
> 
> thanks,
> Peter
> 
>>
>> If acceptable, we can forward this draft along this direction.
>>
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2020, at 17:15, Peter Psenak <ppsenak=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Aijun,
>>>
>>> the point I was trying to make was that you should think of a similar mechanism for your use cases - e.g. define something that advertises the link without advertising the IS adjacency and not mess up with the prefix advertisement.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>> On 05/11/2020 10:09, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>> Hi, Peter:
>>>> Yes, RFC 5392 is the OSPF corresponding part for the inter-AS TE solution. But using these existing solutions has some limitation in deployment, as I explained in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/.
>>>> And, in some situations, not all of the passive interfaces are connected with another AS, then flag these interfaces using RFC 5316 or RFC 5392 is not appropriate.
>>>> Do you agree?
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>> China Telecom
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: ppsenak@cisco.com [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:26 PM
>>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'
>>>> <acee@cisco.com>; 'Aijun Wang' <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
>>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>>> Hi Aijun,
>>>> please look at rfc5316, ISIS already have a way to advertise inter-AS link without forming an adjacency.
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>> On 05/11/2020 02:15, Aijun Wang wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this comments.
>>>>> The consideration for the position of flagging the passive interface have been stated in the updated 05 version https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-05#section-3, as the followings:
>>>>>
>>>>>       ISIS [RFC5029] defines the Link-Attributes Sub-TLV to carry the link
>>>>>       attribute information, but this Sub-TLV can only be carried within
>>>>>       the TLV 22, which is used to described the attached neighbor.  For
>>>>>       passive interface, there is no ISIS neighbor, then it is not
>>>>>       appropriate to use this Sub-TLV to indicate the passive attribute of
>>>>>       the interface.
>>>>>
>>>>>       OSPFv2[RFC2328] defines link type field within Router LSA, the type 3
>>>>>       for connections to a stub network can be used to identified the
>>>>>       passive interface.  But in OSPFv3 [RFC5340], type 3 within the
>>>>>       Router-LSA has been reserved.  The information that associated with
>>>>>       stub network has been put in the Intra-Area-Prefix-LSAs.
>>>>>
>>>>> What about your opinions regarding to the above statements? Currently, we think putting the flag within the prefix attribute that associated the passive interface is appropriate.
>>>>> If we can find other appropriate/acceptable place to hold this information, we can also update the draft later accordingly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Aijun Wang
>>>>> China Telecom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 4:11 AM
>>>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>>>>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
>>>>> <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
>>>>> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Aijun,
>>>>> You still didn't answer the question as to why you didn't rework this draft for passive interface to be an interface attribute rather than a prefix attribute?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/1/20, 6:13 AM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>        Hi Aijun,
>>>>>        You didn't answer my question and pruned my message. Other than your attempt to expose the topology of areas outside the area, there is no other reason to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix. We seem to be in a circular discussion....
>>>>>        Acee
>>>>>
>>>>>>        On 9/30/20, 10:43 PM, "wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>            Hi, Acee:
>>>>>            Except the corner cases of unnumbered interface, would you like to illustrate other scenarios that the process does not apply?
>>>>>            As mentioned in last mail, knowing the passive interfaces can assist the nodes or controller know the boundaries of the network.
>>>>>
>>>>>            Aijun Wang
>>>>>            China Telecom
>>>>>
>>>>>            > On Sep 30, 2020, at 19:47, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>>>            >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Aijun Wang'" <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Hi, Acee:
I have updated the draft according to the discussion with Peter on the list.=
 The updated draft will be uploaded once the IETF repository reopen.
We define new TLV to contain the stub-link related information within OSPFv2=
/v3 and ISIS respectively. The presentation will also align with it.

Together with the use case that described in Linda=E2=80=99s draft https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01, we think th=
is extension is necessary and should be considered within IGP.
Thanks in advance.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Nov 11, 2020, at 02:01, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFAijun,=20
>=20
> Speaking as WG member:
>=20
> At least for OSPF, passive interfaces are not standardized in RFC 2328 or R=
FC 5340. Hence, this purely a vendor concept.=20
> Additionally, it is a property, albeit a vendor property, of a link and no=
t a prefix. It would be both inappropriate and profligate (considering the s=
carcity) to allocate a prefix option for the purpose of identifying a passiv=
e link associated with the prefix. Given your narrow use case of identifying=
 the edge of an IGP domain, it would certainly be better to allocate a new T=
LV specifically for purpose and perhaps this doesn't belong in the IGPs at a=
ll and should be something you propose solely for BGP-LS consumption.=20
>=20
> Speaking as WG Co-chair:
>=20
> Given strong objections to this draft in its current form, I don't really s=
ee a good reason for present it at IETF 109. I believe it would just be a re=
hash of the discuss that has already taken place.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 11/9/20, 4:44 AM, "Peter Psenak" <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
>    Hi Aijun,
>=20
>>    On 09/11/2020 07:35, Aijun Wang wrote:
>> Hi, Peter:
>>=20
>> Currently, the inter-AS link TLV is advertised within the Inter-AS-TE-LSA=
 for OSPF and Inter-AS Reachability TLV for ISIS.
>> But I think these two places are not suitable for the stub-link informati=
on.
>>=20
>> It seems that separating the stub-link information from the inter-as link=
 information is better, because not all of the stub-links are inter-as link.=

>> If so, can we put the newly defined Stub-Link TLV within the Router LSA f=
or OSPF and make it one new top TLV for ISIS?
>=20
>    Router LSA does not have TLVs, you would have to add the data to=20
>    Extended Prefix Link TLV (RFC7684), or define a net top-level TLV under=
=20
>    the OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA.
>=20
>    For ISIS you don't have a choice really, you need to define a new=20
>    top-level TLV.
>=20
>    thanks,
>    Peter
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Best Regards
>>=20
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 1:56 AM
>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
>> Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisc=
o.com>; lsr@i

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Acee:<div>I have updated the draft acco=
rding to the discussion with Peter on the list. The updated draft will be up=
loaded once the IETF repository reopen.</div><div>We define new TLV to conta=
in the stub-link related information within OSPFv2/v3 and ISIS respectively.=
 The presentation will also align with it.</div><div><br></div><div>Together=
 with the use case that described in Linda=E2=80=99s draft&nbsp;<a href=3D"h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01">htt=
ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01</a>, w=
e think this extension is necessary and should be considered within IGP.</di=
v><div>Thanks in advance.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun Wang<div>China Telec=
om</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 11, 2020=
, at 02:01, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockq=
uote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<span>Aijun, <=
/span><br><span></span><br><span>Speaking as WG member:</span><br><span></sp=
an><br><span>At least for OSPF, passive interfaces are not standardized in R=
FC 2328 or RFC 5340. Hence, this purely a vendor concept. </span><br><span>A=
dditionally, it is a property, albeit a vendor property, of a link and not a=
 prefix. It would be both inappropriate and profligate (considering the scar=
city) to allocate a prefix option for the purpose of identifying a passive l=
ink associated with the prefix. Given your narrow use case of identifying th=
e edge of an IGP domain, it would certainly be better to allocate a new TLV s=
pecifically for purpose and perhaps this doesn't belong in the IGPs at all a=
nd should be something you propose solely for BGP-LS consumption. </span><br=
><span></span><br><span>Speaking as WG Co-chair:</span><br><span></span><br>=
<span>Given strong objections to this draft in its current form, I don't rea=
lly see a good reason for present it at IETF 109. I believe it would just be=
 a rehash of the discuss that has already taken place.</span><br><span></spa=
n><br><span>Thanks,</span><br><span>Acee</span><br><span></span><br><span>=EF=
=BB=BFOn 11/9/20, 4:44 AM, "Peter Psenak" &lt;ppsenak@cisco.com&gt; wrote:</=
span><br><span></span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Aijun,</span><br><span=
></span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 09/11/2020 07:35, Aijun Wang wrote:<=
/span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Hi, Peter:</span><br></blockquote>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><span>Currently, the inter-AS link TLV is advertised within the Inter-=
AS-TE-LSA for OSPF and Inter-AS Reachability TLV for ISIS.</span><br></block=
quote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>But I think these two places are not s=
uitable for the stub-link information.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote ty=
pe=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>It=
 seems that separating the stub-link information from the inter-as link info=
rmation is better, because not all of the stub-links are inter-as link.</spa=
n><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>If so, can we put the new=
ly defined Stub-Link TLV within the Router LSA for OSPF and make it one new t=
op TLV for ISIS?</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;Router LSA does not have TLVs, you would have to add the data to </spa=
n><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Extended Prefix Link TLV (RFC7684), or define=
 a net top-level TLV under </span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the OSPFv2 Ex=
tended Link Opaque LSA.</span><br><span></span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
For ISIS you don't have a choice really, you need to define a new </span><br=
><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;top-level TLV.</span><br><span></span><br><span> &=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;thanks,</span><br><span> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Peter</span><br>=
<span></span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e"><span>Best Regards</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span=
></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Aijun Wang</span><b=
r></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>China Telecom</span><br></blo=
ckquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></blockquote><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><span>From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]</span=
><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>Sent: Saturday, November 7=
, 2020 1:56 AM</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>To: Ai=
jun Wang &lt;wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn&gt;</span><br></blockquote><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><span>Cc: Aijun Wang &lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; Acee Li=
ndem (acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; lsr@i</span></blockquote></div></blockqu=
ote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-CC4C810F-5B46-4D38-A2D4-8663C772409C--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
CC: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04.txt
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 07:02:39 -0800
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/kCCS07pCkw00Lx6pRnfBHl3LHME>
Subject: [Lsr] IPR Disclosure Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd's Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions and draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext
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Dear Peter Psenak, Clarence Filsfils, Ahmed Bashandy, Bruno Decraene, Zhibo Hu:


An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "IS-IS
Extension to Support Segment Routing over IPv6 Dataplane"
(draft-ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat
on 2020-11-13 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property
Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4486/). The title of
the IPR disclosure is "Huawei Technologies Co.,Ltd's Statement about IPR
related to draft-ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions and
draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-srv6-ext"


Thank you

IETF Secretariat



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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Susan Hares" <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" <slitkows=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)" <slitkows=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, idr@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, lsr@ietf.org
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG reviews,=
 BGP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had been remove=
d from the draft. It will require much better discussion to have it included=
.

Regards,
Jeff

> On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements de=
fined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV define=
d in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4 depend upon the=
 TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in https://www.rfc-edit=
or.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3. These procedures are not currently applica=
ble to non-TRILL environments.
> =20
> So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support the=
 goals of this draft.
> =20
> As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how a B=
GP only network (for example) could provide the information of interest.
> =20
> =46rom my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is premature.
> This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment w=
e simply have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy it.
> =20
> So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by IDR.
> =20
> Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encour=
age the current authors to investigate and propose relevant mechanisms in al=
l the protocols of interest in some future version of the draft.
> At that point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption call.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM
> To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.co=
m>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;=
 idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi Authors,
> =20
> I believe this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in prov=
iding the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. However, a=
s pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to ju=
st that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The discussion relate=
d to Path MTU and applicability to SR networks are best left outside the sco=
pe of this standards track draft.
> =20
> Hi Sue,
> =20
> I would support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in ID=
R WG and instead doing this in LSR.
> =20
> Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with how=
 this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill specification po=
ints to this TLV https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4 =E2=80=93 i=
f you see, there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critical=
 is the ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is dete=
rmined. Please do not mix the following :
> =20
> The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link as
>    specified in [RFC6325], Section 4.2.4.4.
> =20
> Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for testing M=
TU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.
> =20
> My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in nor=
mal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. Copying=
 the LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.
> =20
> Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text related t=
o that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS advertisements in BGP o=
nly fabric need to be specified as a base. The https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/ was my attempt to specify those=
 procedures and it would be great if the IDR WG could review and provide fee=
dback to this document and consider for adoption so we can cover the BGP-onl=
y networks.
> =20
> I would also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the neces=
sary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could tackle bo=
th the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Ketan
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
> Sent: 13 November 2020 00:20
> To: 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitko=
ws)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (ac=
ee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:
> =20
> I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.  =20
> =20
> Does the name:   draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
> the authors and interested IDR participants.
> =20
> As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears
> to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft.
> =20
> I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point
> it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft.=20
> =20
> Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward:
> =20
> If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the
> LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working
> review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed.
> =20
> Please continue to comment on the draft and
> the planned progression.
> =20
> Cheers,  Sue
> =20
> From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM
> To: Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (=
acee)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> +1 to everything Acee said
> =20
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dma=
rc.ietf.org>, wrote:
>=20
> Speaking as an IDR WG member:
> =20
> The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU a=
nd not a path MTU.
> =20
> Speaking as LSR Chair:
> =20
> We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the LSA=
s for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this informatio=
n as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, we=E2=
=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com=
>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> To: "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Stephane:
> =20
> My second message to this thread asked a few questions about the technolog=
y.  =20
> =20
> This information can be more than IGP information.   If SR segments static=
ally defined (static or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints vi=
a BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just be BGP.
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going until we can be sure if:  1)=
 it something LSR wants to standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only c=
ase.   It is clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stack=
ed tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.
> =20
> The authors should be the ones to propose this in LSR.      =20
> =20
> Cheers,  Sue
> =20
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Litkowski (s=
litkows)
> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM
> To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi Sue,
> =20
> > The purpose behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rathe=
r than to reduce the review on drafts.
> =20
> That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension now=
 and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft for a v=
ery very small extension. Just adds process overhead for nothing=E2=80=A6
> =20
> =20
> Stephane
> =20
> =20
> From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> Sent: lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10
> To: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Stephane:
> =20
> I want to pick up on your email from two points:
> =20
> 1)  Why not do everything in LSR?=20
> <WG-chair hat>
> If the feature comes with interest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS d=
ata gathering), then the authors may select to do everything in LSR rather t=
han have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.
> =20
> This is optional and the mechanism may not fit every draft.   The drafts m=
ay also start out adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.    The purpose behind t=
his mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the rev=
iew on drafts.
> =20
> </wg-chair hat off>
> =20
> =20
> 2) TRILL implementations of IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -=20
> =20
> If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you m=
ight want to check with Donald Eastlake.   My vague and foggy recollection i=
s that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL implementations.
> =20
> =20
> Cheers, Susan Hares
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [mailto:slitkows@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM
> To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi,
> =20
> =E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D
> =20
> This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs (of c=
ourse there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some MTU subTLV c=
oming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), I don=E2=80=99t s=
ee anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, so I may have missed i=
t).
> Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before adoptin=
g ?
> =20
> =20
> Stephane
> =20
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
> Sent: lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04
> To: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to=
 11/16/2020)
> =20
> This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for
> draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).
> =20
> The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft
> by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.
> =20
> You can access the draft at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/
> =20
> Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft
> I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =20
> this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS
> and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.
> =20
> This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.  if you
> are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than
> this specific addition, please make that clear in your
> comment in this discussion. =20
> =20
> The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.=20
> The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.  =20
> This draft has been delayed by process of having a
> new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed
> on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.
> =20
> Cheers, Sue
> =20
> Background
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are
> directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.  While existing MPLS technology
> (LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU
> based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)
> on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on
> MTU size per link.  =20
> =20
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU
> information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type =20
> SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths.      =20
> However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable
> Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute
> this information.
> =20
> The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size
> to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this
> draft as one possible way to distribute the per link
> MTU. =20
> =20
> Questions for the authors might be:
> a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS
> =20
> b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU?  =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only s=
cenario, during MSD IESG reviews, BGP-LS only deployment was found not well c=
haracterized and had been removed from the draft. It will require much bette=
r discussion to have it included.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff<=
/div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 13, 2020, a=
t 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt; wrote:<br><br></=
blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of M=
TU advertisements defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents o=
f the sub-TLV defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4">https://=
www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4</a> depend upon the TRILL sp=
ecific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3">https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3</a>. These procedures are not curr=
ently applicable to non-TRILL environments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined w=
hich can support the goals of this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion i=
n the draft of how a BGP only network (for example) could provide the inform=
ation of interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">=46rom my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in A=
NY WG is premature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93=
 but at the moment we simply have an idea with no definition of how to imple=
ment/deploy it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by ID=
R.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93=
 and I would encourage the current authors to investigate and propose releva=
nt mechanisms in all the protocols of interest in
 some future version of the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">At that point we could then have a far more meaningfu=
l WG adoption call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr &lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;jefftant=
.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;slitkows=3D40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;acee=3D40cisc=
o.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I believe this work is useful and shou=
ld be taken up. It has value in providing the link MTU as part of the topolo=
gy information via BGP-LS. However, as pointed
 out by others on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to just that =E2=
=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The discussion related to Path M=
TU and applicability to SR networks are best left outside the scope of this s=
tandards track draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I would support the points made by Ace=
e for not taking up this draft in IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv=
2/v3, there are also issues with how this would work with ISIS. The referenc=
e to the ISIS Trill specification points to this
 TLV <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4">https://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4</a> =E2=80=93 if you see, there is more=
 here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the ISIS procedures (=
in non-Trill deployments) on how this
 value is determined. Please do not mix the following :<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The MTU sub-TLV is used to option=
ally announce the MTU of a link as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; specified in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4">[RFC6325], S=
ection&nbsp;4.2.4.4</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Are the authors trying to specify that=
 these Trill procedures for testing MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS d=
eployments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">My take is that while the ISIS TLV def=
ined for Trill may be re-used in normal ISIS deployments, its usage and proc=
edures need to be specified. Copying the LSR
 WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Coming to the point of BGP-only networ=
ks, the draft has zero text related to that scenario. Moreover, the procedur=
es for BGP-LS advertisements in BGP only fabric
 need to be specified as a base. The <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/</a=
> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the ID=
R WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider for ado=
ption so we can cover the BGP-only
 networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">I would also like to offer support/hel=
p to the authors in adding the necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in a=
n LSR draft where we could tackle both the IGPs
 and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bou=
nces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 November 2020 00:20<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.=
ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc=
.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-l=
s-path-mtu:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I do believe the authors agreed to rena=
ming the draft.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Does the name:&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-xxx-id=
r-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">the authors and interested IDR particip=
ants.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG L=
C, this draft appears
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to have general consensus from the WG a=
s a useful draft.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I plan to allow 2 more days of comment,=
 but at this point
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">it appears the WG wishes to adopt this d=
raft.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the b=
est way forward:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If LSR adopts a version of the draft, I=
DR will allow the
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">LSR WG to be the main source as long as=
 cross-working
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">review occurs so the BGP-only function c=
an be reviewed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please continue to comment on the draft=
 and
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">the planned progression.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,&nbsp; Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Jeff Tantsura [<a href=3D"mailto:je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); <a href=3D"mailto:idr=
@ietf.org">
idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">+1 to everything Acee said<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jeff<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageReplySection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 P=
M -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.i=
etf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Speaking as an IDR WG member:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link=
 MTU and not a path MTU.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Speaking as LSR Chair:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in t=
he LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this info=
rmation as it is used in the OSPF
 DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, we=E2=80=99d require a more acc=
urate draft name and title.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b> <span style=3D"color:black">=
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
 on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, I=
DR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">My second message to this thread asked a few q=
uestions about the technology.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This information can be more than IGP informat=
ion.&nbsp;&nbsp; If SR segments statically defined (static or direct interfa=
ces) tunnels and pass the endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Poli=
cy tunnel type, this can just be BGP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going u=
ntil we can be sure if:&nbsp; 1) it something LSR wants to standardize, and 2=
) whether there is a BGP only case.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is clear to me that stand=
ardizing MTU for a SR segments with stacked tunnel segments
 passed by BGP was useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The authors should be the ones to propose this=
 in LSR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cheers, &nbsp;Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif=
">From:</span></b>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">I=
dr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]=

<b>On Behalf Of</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>=

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang=3D"FR">Hi Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&gt; <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The purpose behind this mechanism is to r=
educe administrative work rather than to reduce the review on drafts.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension now a=
nd in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft for a ver=
y very small extension. Just adds process overhead for nothing=E2=80=A6<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Stephane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b>From:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisc=
o.com">slitkows@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I want to pick up on your email from two point=
s:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">1)&nbsp; Why not do everything in LSR?&nbsp;</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;WG-chair hat&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">If the feature comes with interest in doing al=
l 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors may select to d=
o everything in LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This is optional and the mechanism may not fit=
 every draft. &nbsp;&nbsp;The drafts may also start out adopted and vetted i=
n LSR and IDR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The purpose behind this mechanism is to red=
uce administrative work rather than to reduce the review
 on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;/wg-chair hat off&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">2) TRILL implementations of</span> IS-IS has s=
ome MTU subTLV -&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you mig=
ht want to check with Donald Eastlake.&nbsp;&nbsp; My vague and foggy recoll=
ection is that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL implementatio=
ns.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Cheers, Susan Hares<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif=
">From:</span></b>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">S=
tephane Litkowski (slitkows) [<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com">mailto:s=
litkows@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>=

<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs (of co=
urse there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some MTU subTLV c=
oming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), I don=E2=80=99t s=
ee anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF
 expert, so I may have missed it).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before adopting ?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Stephane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<b>From:</b> Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/20=
20 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
You can access the draft at:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/</a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place &nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.&nbsp; if you</s=
pan><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></sp=
an><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
<span lang=3D"EN-IN" dir=3D"LTR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than</span><spa=
n dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span=
 dir=3D"RTL"></span>
<span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">this specific addition, please make that clear in your</sp=
an><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></spa=
n><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
<span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;directi=
on:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span dir=3D"LTR">comment in this discussion.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span dir=3D=
"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"=
RTL"></span>
<span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><=
span dir=3D"LTR"></span>&nbsp;<span lang=3D"HE" dir=3D"RTL"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.&nbsp;<span lang=3D"AR-SA" d=
ir=3D"RTL"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience. &nbsp;&nbsp;<span la=
ng=3D"AR-SA" dir=3D"RTL"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
This draft has been delayed by process of having a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Cheers, Sue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Background<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.&nbsp; While existing MPLS technology<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)<o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
MTU size per link.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type &nbsp;=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
this information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
draft as one possible way to distribute the per link<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
MTU. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
Questions for the authors might be:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU? &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in">
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" <slitkows=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: "Wanghaibo (Rainsword)" <rainsword.wang@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 11:13:38 +0100
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To: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)" <slitkows=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Hi Huzhibo,

I would like to highlight another aspect of this draft independent in which
(if any) WG it will end up with.

Many network operators today to interconnect their routers purchase
circuits. However those circuits in vast majority use brilliant technology
of VPWS, L2VPN, EVPN ... you name it. So effectively the circuit is just an
illusion and what is really sold is an emulated circuit running as IP
encapsulated L2 packets on someone IP backbone.

And here comes the crux of the issue - depending on the time of the day,
state and events in the carrier's underlay real MTU changes. And today what
is worse routers have no good way to even detect it. Some attempts pop up
here and there (like stuff BFD to 1500 or so), but the point is that what
could be promised, sold and configured on the interface may not be what is
really under the hood.

Things get even more colorful when only some discrete packet sizes fail
while smaller and bigger go through just fine - Swiss-MTU if you will :)

Sure your proposal just uses static MTU like any other mentioned in your
draft consumer of that information but I am bringing it here for two
reasons:

A) Draft needs to consider this problem and discuss dynamics related to
real MTU changes

B) A discussion needs to be started if it would not be much more effective
to simply detect MTU at the data plane between the src and dst in an end to
end fashion rather then using it in control plane as a atomic piece of
assumed truth used to make any path calculation.

Kind regards,
R.

--000000000000a5a79105b40e661b
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi=C2=A0Huzhibo,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I wou=
ld like to highlight another aspect of this draft independent in which (if =
any) WG it will end up with.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Many network op=
erators today to interconnect=C2=A0their routers=C2=A0purchase circuits. Ho=
wever those circuits in vast majority=C2=A0use brilliant technology of VPWS=
, L2VPN, EVPN ... you name it. So effectively the circuit is just an illusi=
on=C2=A0and what is really sold is an emulated circuit running as IP encaps=
ulated=C2=A0L2 packets on someone IP backbone.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>And here comes the crux of the issue - depending on the time of the day,=
 state and events in the carrier&#39;s underlay real MTU changes. And today=
 what is worse routers have no good way to even detect it. Some attempts po=
p up here and there (like stuff BFD to 1500 or so), but the point is that w=
hat could be promised, sold and configured on the interface may not be what=
 is really under the hood.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Things get even m=
ore colorful when only some discrete=C2=A0packet sizes fail while smaller a=
nd=C2=A0bigger go through=C2=A0just fine - Swiss-MTU if you will :)</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Sure your proposal just uses static MTU like any other me=
ntioned in your draft consumer of that information=C2=A0but I am bringing i=
t here for two reasons:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A) Draft needs to co=
nsider this problem and discuss dynamics related to real MTU changes=C2=A0<=
/div><div><br></div><div>B) A discussion needs to be started if it would no=
t be much more effective to simply detect MTU at the data plane between the=
 src and dst in an end to end fashion rather then using it in control plane=
 as a atomic piece of assumed truth used to make any path calculation.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div>R.</div><div><br></div=
></div>

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)" <slitkows@cisco.com>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases 
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Subject: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 23:30:20 +0100
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/AVlg_KOM9AlEOh_pqSj32wBqx68>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi Acee,

> 3.1 *Inter-Area Node Failure Scenario =E2=80=93 *With respect to this use=
 case,
the node
> in question is actually unreachable. In this case, the ABRs will normally
install a
> reject route for the advertised summary and will send an ICMP unreachable
when
> the packets are received for the unreachable prefix.

And what will the network do with such ICMP unreachable ? Is there some
draft I missed where encapsulating PE will choose a path with different
tunnel endpoint upon reception of ICMP unreachable message ?

See the entire idea behind this draft is to trigger faster switchover to
other PEs in the case of a multihomed attached site.

Option 1 - withdraw a service route in BGP. Use aggregate withdraw to speed
this up (say withdraw just RDs)

Option 2 - signal next hop unreachability (aka negative route) of more
specific prefix then the aggregate itself.

While I think just option 1 is ok for the vast majority of services your
answer seems to be talking about ICMP unreachable which IMO would not help
much with the issue. The proposal is not about failing ... the proposal is
about faster connectivity restoration.

> If faster detection is required, BFD or other mechanisms are available.

Now running a full mesh of BFD multihop sessions from each PE to each other
PE may be ok in theory but rather no-op in practice. Just think 1000 PEs
with 100 ms BFD timers in a full mesh of BFD sessions. Then rethink the
same with  BFD packets maxed to 1500 or 4K bytes packets as per some
proposals floating around.

If we want to move that way I would rather suggest we define a local BFD
anchor explorers (one per area) which will probe all "interesting" next
hops in a given area. Upon failure it would signal to those remote PEs
which indicated interest in such tracking the event of failure.

Again using BFD for this in any form or shape needs to be weighed for
cost/benefit against option 1 and option 2 above.

Thx,
Robert.

PS . Now option 1 can easily be sub second if BFD is enabled on IBGP
sessions between RRs and PEs. However I think there was some concerns
expressed in the past by a vendor for this type of deployment of BFD
between loopbacks. Maybe it would be beneficial for this discussion to
better understand this concern. If valid I think the option 2 which IMO is
the objective of this draft does present a valid problem to be solved.
Today practically speaking networks flood in IGPs globally 1000s of /32
prefixes instead of summarizing them as this is the only way they can
signal liveness of the remote PEs.




On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:34 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Speaking as WG member=E2=80=A6
>
>
>
> With respect to the use cases in section 3:
>
>
>
>   3.1 *Inter-Area Node Failure Scenario =E2=80=93 *With respect to this u=
se case,
> the node in question is actually unreachable. In this case, the ABRs will
> normally install a reject route for the advertised summary and will send =
an
> ICMP unreachable when the packets are received for the unreachable prefix=
.
> This is the expected behavior and there really isn=E2=80=99t that much of=
 advantage
> to move the point of unreachable detection a couple hops closer. If faste=
r
> detection is required, BFD or other mechanisms are available.
>
>
>
>   3.3 *Intra-Area Node Failure Scenario *=E2=80=93 In the first place, mu=
ltiple
> areas with overlapping summaries is just a bad network design. If the
> prefix is unreachable, the case digresses to getting the ICMP unreachable
> from the ABR with the invalid overlapping summary.
>
>
>
> 3.2 *Inter-Area Links Failure Scenario =E2=80=93 *This is the case where =
the
> prefix is reachable but only through a subset of the area ABRs. This is
> really the only valid use case. IMO, it is better to solve this case with
> intra-area tunnels through the backbone as described in section 6.1. I
> think this is preferable to the complexity proposed in this draft and
> especially section 6. It is =E2=80=9Cinteresting=E2=80=9D when non-implem=
entors specify
> implementation details.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--0000000000003db40505b418b11c
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Acee,<div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:14.66=
67px">&gt; 3.1=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-size:14.6667px">Inter-Area Node=
 Failure Scenario =E2=80=93=C2=A0</b><span style=3D"font-size:14.6667px">Wi=
th respect to this use case, the node=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D=
"font-size:14.6667px">&gt; in question is actually unreachable. In this cas=
e, the ABRs will normally install a=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:14.6667px">&gt; reject route for the advertised summary and will s=
end an ICMP unreachable when=C2=A0</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:14.6667px">&gt; the packets are received for the unreachable prefix.</spa=
n>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>And what will the network do with such IC=
MP unreachable ? Is there some draft I missed where encapsulating PE will c=
hoose a path with different tunnel endpoint upon reception of ICMP unreacha=
ble message ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>See the entire idea behind thi=
s draft is to trigger faster switchover to other=C2=A0PEs in the case of a =
multihomed=C2=A0attached site.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Option 1 - wi=
thdraw a service route in BGP. Use aggregate withdraw to speed this up (say=
 withdraw just RDs)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Option 2 - signal next h=
op unreachability (aka negative route) of more specific prefix then the agg=
regate itself.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>While I think just option 1 i=
s ok for the vast majority=C2=A0of services your answer seems to be talking=
 about ICMP unreachable which IMO would not help much with the issue. The p=
roposal is not about=C2=A0failing ... the proposal is about faster connecti=
vity restoration.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4.6667px">&gt; If faster detection is required, BFD or other mechanisms are=
 available.</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>Now running a f=
ull mesh of BFD multihop sessions from each PE to each other PE may be ok i=
n theory but rather no-op in practice. Just think 1000 PEs with 100 ms BFD =
timers in a full mesh of BFD sessions. Then rethink the same with=C2=A0 BFD=
 packets maxed to 1500 or 4K bytes packets as per some proposals floating a=
round.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>If we want to move that way I would r=
ather suggest we define a local BFD anchor explorers (one per area) which w=
ill probe all &quot;interesting&quot; next hops in a given area. Upon failu=
re it would signal to those remote PEs which indicated interest in such tra=
cking the event of failure.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Again using BFD =
for this in any form or shape needs to be weighed for cost/benefit against =
option 1 and option 2 above.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>Robert.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>PS . Now option 1 can easily be sub second =
if BFD is enabled on IBGP sessions between RRs and PEs. However I think the=
re was some concerns expressed in the past by a vendor for this type of dep=
loyment of=C2=A0BFD between loopbacks. Maybe it would be beneficial for thi=
s discussion to better understand this concern. If valid I think the option=
 2 which IMO is the objective of this draft does present a valid problem to=
 be solved. Today practically speaking networks flood in IGPs globally 1000=
s of /32 prefixes instead of summarizing them as this is the only way they =
can signal liveness of the remote PEs.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br><=
/div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 10:34 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt=
;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.iet=
f.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-7633261541213272633WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Speaking as WG member=
=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">With respect to the u=
se cases in section 3:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0 3.1 <b>Inter-A=
rea Node Failure Scenario =E2=80=93
</b>With respect to this use case, the node in question is actually unreach=
able. In this case, the ABRs will normally install a reject route for the a=
dvertised summary and will send an ICMP unreachable when the packets are re=
ceived for the unreachable prefix.
 This is the expected behavior and there really isn=E2=80=99t that much of =
advantage to move the point of unreachable detection a couple hops closer. =
If faster detection is required, BFD or other mechanisms are available.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0 3.3 <b>Intra-A=
rea Node Failure Scenario
</b>=E2=80=93 In the first place, multiple areas with overlapping summaries=
 is just a bad network design. If the prefix is unreachable, the case digre=
sses to getting the ICMP unreachable from the ABR with the invalid overlapp=
ing summary.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">3.2 <b>Inter-Area Lin=
ks Failure Scenario =E2=80=93
</b>This is the case where the prefix is reachable but only through a subse=
t of the area ABRs. This is really the only valid use case. IMO, it is bett=
er to solve this case with intra-area tunnels through the backbone as descr=
ibed in section 6.1. I think this
 is preferable to the complexity proposed in this draft and especially sect=
ion 6. It is =E2=80=9Cinteresting=E2=80=9D when non-implementors specify im=
plementation details.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 11:48:51 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi Aijun,

As I think what you are proposing overall is useful let me in turn comment
on some of your statements ...

[WAJ] It is common, for example, ISIS level1-2 router will announce the
>> default route to the level 1 area. And, also in the OSPF totally stubby
>> area.
>>
>
Well let's just take OSPF and imagine:

 Area1 --- ABR1 --- Area0 ---ABR2 --- Area2

So you are saying that unreachable should be always flooded/leaked domain
wide. That's news - I was always thinking of this functionality only in the
case when a summary route covering such more specific is present. Default
should not count ... at least I am not sure if this is safe or makes sense
at this point.


[WAJ] The tunnel soultions described in section 6 is the last resort of the
>> path switch procedure. If we deploy the PUA mechanism, normally the routers
>> within another area will switch automatically to other ABR when it receives
>> the PUA from one ABR.  Only in the critical scenario that described in
>> beginning of section 6, the solution described in section 6.1 or 6.2 will
>> be used.
>>
>
I think this is where you are starting to confuse people. In my option this
solution should have nothing to do with selecting which ABR to use to cross
area boundary.

The cases when one ABR has full remote reachability and the other one
partial one in my view are symptoms of a very poorly designed network and
to stretch protocol thin to cover for those mistakes with a patch is not a
good thing.

I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote
service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being
advertised from remote area or pop.

Thx,
R.

--0000000000007b149705b4230230
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br></div><div>As I think what yo=
u are proposing overall is useful let me in turn comment on some of your st=
atements ...=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"line-height:1.7;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><blockquote id=3D"gmail-m_45=
88993803624715940isReplyContent" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">[WAJ] It is common, =
for example, ISIS level1-2 router will announce the default route to the le=
vel 1 area. And, also in the OSPF totally stubby area.=C2=A0</span></p></di=
v></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>Well let&#39;s just take OSPF and imagine:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=
=A0Area1 --- ABR1 --- Area0 ---ABR2 --- Area2=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><di=
v>So you are saying that unreachable should be always flooded/leaked domain=
 wide. That&#39;s news - I was always thinking of this functionality only i=
n the case when a summary route covering such more specific=C2=A0is present=
. Default should not count ... at least I am not sure if this is safe or ma=
kes sense at this point.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"line-height:1.7;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><blockquote id=3D"gmail-m_45=
88993803624715940isReplyContent" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.6667px">[WAJ] The tunne=
l soultions described in section 6 is the last resort of the path switch pr=
ocedure. If we deploy the PUA mechanism, normally the routers within anothe=
r area will switch automatically to other ABR when it receives the PUA from=
 one ABR.=C2=A0 Only in the critical scenario that described in beginning o=
f section 6, the solution described in section 6.1 or 6.2 will be used.</sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>I think this is where you are starting to confuse people. In=
 my option this solution should have nothing to do with selecting which ABR=
 to use to cross area boundary.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The cases wh=
en one ABR has full remote reachability and the other one partial one in my=
 view are symptoms of a very poorly designed=C2=A0network and to stretch pr=
otocol thin to cover for those mistakes with a patch is not a good thing.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I would actually trim most use cases leavin=
g just one - to signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the prese=
nce of summary route being advertised from remote area or pop.=C2=A0</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div>

--0000000000007b149705b4230230--


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi Gyan,

=20

Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to =
a lot of lists :-).

=20

> I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it =
seems in the

> industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, =
ODL or

> Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X

> provisioning.

=20

Yes, blurriness our speciality.

=20

You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little =
dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.

=20

> As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army =
knife server that

> does everything from PCE path computation to  Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N =


> provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller =
type

> functions as well.

=20

Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be =
converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I =
pontificated on this way back in 2014 at =
http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf

=20

> How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is =
the use of

> BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was =
designed

> for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for =
both

> RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation. =20

=20

In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could =
have snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and =
importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is =
exported thus giving the network some control over what is exported.

=20

FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/ =
proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that =
a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as =
well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and =
that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports =
BGP.

=20

> However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as =
usage as

> I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use =
BGP-LS to

> gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data =
structures

> to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology. =
 So here

> we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use =
case  for

> NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning.

>=20

> Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and =
being able

> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource =
information

> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like =
controller style

> provisioning.=20

=20

Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and =
path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic.

=20

> It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump =
truck"

> of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of =
topological graph

> of literally anything under the sun.

=20

Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport =
Shakespeare.=20

This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets =
added, further use gets made.

=20

BGP-LS was intended to export routing information =
=E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from the network.

=20

> I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of =
NMS Netconf/Yang

> Controller based functionality and  PCE path computation functionality =
and SDN

> controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server =
that can do all of

> the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks.  It =
does however

> transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original =
function

> which it was intended NLRI network reachability.

=20

Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS =
tool=E2=80=9D.

I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is =
an NMS protocol.

=20

> Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over =
leveraged.=20

> There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to =
the WG as

> an important discussion point.

=20

Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a =
push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is =
=E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow =
confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different =
code point to be distinguishable?

=20

I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for =
doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that =
it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they =
don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message =
using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over =
Netconf=E2=80=9D.

=20

Best,

Adrian

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Gyan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Sorry, I =
missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a lot of =
lists :-).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; I have noticed that after reviewing many =
drafts across many WGs it seems in the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; industry that the lines seem to be blurred =
between a PCE controller, ODL or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP &amp; Day =
X<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; provisioning.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, =
blurriness our speciality.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>You my find =
RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated. And, of =
course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; As this is a software sitting on a server you can =
have a swiss army knife server that<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; does everything from PCE path computation =
to&nbsp; Netconf/Yang ZTP &amp; Day N <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or =
Openflow controller type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
functions as well.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Yes, and =
this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be converted =
from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated on this =
way back in 2014 at =
http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; How this comes into play and realization of the =
lines being blurred is the use of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of =
the network which was designed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
for PCEP and PCE &amp; PCC active &amp; passive off line path =
computation for both<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; RSVP-TE or =
SR-TE path instantiation.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In some =
senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have =
snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and =
importantly adds to that some policy filters to determine what is =
exported thus giving the network some control over what is =
exported.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>FWIW, <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/</a> proposes =
using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that a PCE =
has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as well. =
The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it =
will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports =
BGP.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; However now BGP-LS can also be used for other =
functions now such as usage as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; I =
am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS =
to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; gather the elements internals =
within BIER using the same BGP-LS data structures<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; to populate with BIER specific information to =
graph the BIER topology.&nbsp; So here<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; we are not doing any path computations as we are =
using in this use case&nbsp; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
NMS type function to gather data for ZTP &amp; Day N =
provisioning.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS =
TS-Transport slice and being able<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN =
RT &amp; resource information<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering &amp; ZTP like =
controller style<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; =
provisioning.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Is there a =
fundamental difference between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path =
computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry =
traffic.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of =
&quot;data gathering&quot; &quot;dump truck&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; of anything with the kitchen sink included to =
build any type of topological graph<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; of literally anything under the =
sun.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to =
transport Shakespeare. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>This is a =
tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, =
further use gets made.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>BGP-LS was =
intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from =
the network.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt;&nbsp;I see that is a nice to leverage but it does =
in fact blur the lines of NMS Netconf/Yang<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Controller based functionality and&nbsp; PCE path =
computation functionality and SDN<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; controller based ZTP functionality into a single =
ubiquitous server that can do all of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the =
&quot;kitchen sink&quot; tasks.&nbsp; It does however<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a =
&quot;tool&quot; and not just the original function<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; which it was intended NLRI network =
reachability.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS =
is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is =
an NMS protocol.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; Am I off base and please let me know as its =
BGP-LS is being way over leveraged.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; There are pros &amp; cons to everything but I =
thought I would bring up to the WG as<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; an important discussion point.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Who are we =
to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a push for =
implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is =
=E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow =
confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it use a different =
code point to be distinguishable?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I think the =
argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for doing =
this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it =
doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do something they =
don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol message =
using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over =
Netconf=E2=80=9D.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></h=
tml>
------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D6BB47.7EE27210--


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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Robert:

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Nov 15, 2020, at 18:49, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Aijun,
>=20
> As I think what you are proposing overall is useful let me in turn comment=
 on some of your statements ...=20
>=20
>>> [WAJ] It is common, for example, ISIS level1-2 router will announce the d=
efault route to the level 1 area. And, also in the OSPF totally stubby area.=
=20
>>>=20
>=20
> Well let's just take OSPF and imagine:
>=20
>  Area1 --- ABR1 --- Area0 ---ABR2 --- Area2=20
>=20
> So you are saying that unreachable should be always flooded/leaked domain w=
ide. That's news - I was always thinking of this functionality only in the c=
ase when a summary route covering such more specific is present. Default sho=
uld not count ... at least I am not sure if this is safe or makes sense at t=
his point.=20
[WAJ] The situation is the same. If there is any special situation that is n=
ot safe, we can analyze it together.

>=20
>=20
>>> [WAJ] The tunnel soultions described in section 6 is the last resort of t=
he path switch procedure. If we deploy the PUA mechanism, normally the route=
rs within another area will switch automatically to other ABR when it receiv=
es the PUA from one ABR.  Only in the critical scenario that described in be=
ginning of section 6, the solution described in section 6.1 or 6.2 will be u=
sed.
>>>=20
>=20
> I think this is where you are starting to confuse people. In my option thi=
s solution should have nothing to do with selecting which ABR to use to cros=
s area boundary.=20
[WAJ] This situation may occur when both ABR can=E2=80=99t send PUA messages=
 to divert the traffic and it will apply when the PUA mechanism is not in ef=
fect. The last resort for the traffic forwarding.
>=20
> The cases when one ABR has full remote reachability and the other one part=
ial one in my view are symptoms of a very poorly designed network and to str=
etch protocol thin to cover for those mistakes with a patch is not a good th=
ing.=20
[WAJ] The situation is not exist from the design or from the beginning. It m=
ay appear after some links failure, although it is scarce scenario, we shoul=
d consider it for completeness.

>=20
> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote s=
ervice node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being adver=
tised from remote area or pop.=20
>=20
[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism can a=
lso apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.

> Thx,
> R.
> =20

--Apple-Mail-7B4941E8-2F56-4945-B8CC-302FB67D7E26
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Robert:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun W=
ang<div>China Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te">On Nov 15, 2020, at 18:49, Robert Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt; wrote=
:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br></div><div>As I think what y=
ou are proposing overall is useful let me in turn comment on some of your st=
atements ...&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"line-height:1.7;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><blockquote id=3D"gmail-m_458899=
3803624715940isReplyContent" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">[WAJ] It is common, for examp=
le, ISIS level1-2 router will announce the default route to the level 1 area=
. And, also in the OSPF totally stubby area.&nbsp;</span></p></div></div></b=
lockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well let=
's just take OSPF and imagine:</div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;Area1 --- ABR1=
 --- Area0 ---ABR2 --- Area2&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>So you are sayin=
g that unreachable should be always flooded/leaked domain wide. That's news -=
 I was always thinking of this functionality only in the case when a summary=
 route covering such more specific&nbsp;is present. Default should not count=
 ... at least I am not sure if this is safe or makes sense at this point.&nb=
sp;</div></div></div></div></blockquote>[WAJ] The situation is the same. If t=
here is any special situation that is not safe, we can analyze it together.<=
br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"line-height:1.7;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-siz=
e:14px;font-family:Arial"><blockquote id=3D"gmail-m_4588993803624715940isRep=
lyContent" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:14.6667px">[WAJ] The tunnel soultions described in se=
ction 6 is the last resort of the path switch procedure. If we deploy the PU=
A mechanism, normally the routers within another area will switch automatica=
lly to other ABR when it receives the PUA from one ABR.&nbsp; Only in the cr=
itical scenario that described in beginning of section 6, the solution descr=
ibed in section 6.1 or 6.2 will be used.</span></p></div></div></blockquote>=
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think this is wh=
ere you are starting to confuse people. In my option this solution should ha=
ve nothing to do with selecting which ABR to use to cross area boundary.&nbs=
p;</div></div></div></div></blockquote>[WAJ] This situation may occur when b=
oth ABR can=E2=80=99t send PUA messages to divert the traffic and it will ap=
ply when the PUA mechanism is not in effect. The last resort for the traffic=
 forwarding.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>The cases when one ABR has fu=
ll remote reachability and the other one partial one in my view are symptoms=
 of a very poorly designed&nbsp;network and to stretch protocol thin to cove=
r for those mistakes with a patch is not a good thing.&nbsp;</div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div>[WAJ] The situation is not exist from the design o=
r from the beginning. It may appear after some links failure, although it is=
 scarce scenario, we should consider it for completeness.</div><br><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div><br></div><div>I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one -=
 to signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summar=
y route being advertised from remote area or pop.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div>=
</div></div></div></blockquote>[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use ca=
se, but the PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make=
 it one general solution.<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div>&nbsp=
;</div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-7B4941E8-2F56-4945-B8CC-302FB67D7E26--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 17:44:05 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMEREV+TCwNiptdVj--HjD5nJV8zOiUJ5THcsomWCa1jJA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/i4jveqRiEqt1l7gi0IaKdyeJXpg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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--000000000000d5503e05b427f819
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Hi Aijun,

I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed down
to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.

The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover
the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are
running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently
described in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising
summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.

Thx,
R.


> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote
> service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being
> advertised from remote area or pop.
>
>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism
can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.

--000000000000d5503e05b427f819
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br></=
div><div>I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narro=
wed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact=C2=A0their next hops.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The reason being that the moment you make t=
he solution generic, moreover the moment you want it to be used in RIB and =
data plane I am afraid you are running into similar=C2=A0(even if local) de=
aggregation mechanism like recently described in RIFT. That would kill all =
the scalability of advertising summary routes in the first place and I bet =
would face lots of opposition.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,</div><di=
v>R.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I would actually trim most use cas=
es leaving just one - to signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in =
the presence of summary route being advertised from remote area or pop.=C2=
=A0<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0[=
WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism can a=
lso apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.</div=
></div></div>

--000000000000d5503e05b427f819--


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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : ISIS Extensions in Support of Inter-Autonomous System (AS) MPLS and GMPLS Traffic Engineering
        Authors         : Mach(Guoyi) Chen
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Xiaodong Duan
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-00.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2020-11-15

Abstract:
   This document describes extensions to the Intermediate System to
   Intermediate System (IS-IS) protocol to support Multiprotocol Label
   Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering
   (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASs).  It defines IS-IS
   extensions for the flooding of TE information about inter-AS links,
   which can be used to perform inter-AS TE path computation.

   No support for flooding information from within one AS to another AS
   is proposed or defined in this document.

   This document obsoletes RFC 5316.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc5316bis-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment -  th=
e example is rather  unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditional and w=
ell contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t  affect overall scalabi=
lity.

Regards,
Jeff

> On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Aijun,
>=20
> I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed down=
 to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.=20
>=20
> The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover t=
he moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are r=
unning into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently de=
scribed in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising summary r=
outes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.=20
>=20
> Thx,
> R.
> =20
>>> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote=
 service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being adv=
ertised from remote area or pop.=20
>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism ca=
n also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond=
 to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - &nbsp;the example is rather &nbsp;unfortunate,=
 in RIFT disaggregation is conditional and well contained within its context=
, it doesn=E2=80=99t &nbsp;affect overall scalability.<br><br><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cit=
e">On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt; wrote:=
<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br>=
</div><div>I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narr=
owed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact&nbsp;their next hops.=
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The reason being that the moment you make th=
e solution generic, moreover the moment you want it to be used in RIB and da=
ta plane I am afraid you are running into similar&nbsp;(even if local) deagg=
regation mechanism like recently described in RIFT. That would kill all the s=
calability of advertising summary routes in the first place and I bet would f=
ace lots of opposition.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</di=
v><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I would actually trim most use cases leaving j=
ust one - to signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence o=
f summary route being advertised from remote area or pop.&nbsp;<br></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div>&nbsp;[WAJ] Yes, this ma=
y be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism can also apply to other=
 scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.</div></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr ma=
iling list</span><br><span>Lsr@ietf.org</span><br><span>https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:01:13 -0500
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Robert & Acee

I have been working with Aijun to help clean up the verbiage in the draft
which after IETF 109 will plan to do an update based on feedback.

I will be presenting this draft as well as the passive interface draft
tomorrow morning.

It has been challenging trying to graphically depict Aijun=E2=80=99s goals =
and
intentions but I have tried my best to do so in the presentation tomorrow
morning.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:44 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hi Aijun,
>
> I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed dow=
n
> to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.
>
> The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover
> the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you a=
re
> running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recentl=
y
> described in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising
> summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition=
.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote
>> service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being
>> advertised from remote area or pop.
>>
>>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism
> can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solutio=
n.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000ecc1a105b42ab942
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<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Robert &amp; Acee=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I have been working with Aijun to help cle=
an up the verbiage in the draft which after IETF 109 will plan to do an upd=
ate based on feedback.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">I will be presenting this draft as well as the passive interface draft t=
omorrow morning. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
It has been challenging trying to graphically depict Aijun=E2=80=99s goals =
and intentions but I have tried my best to do so in the presentation tomorr=
ow morning.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards=
=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=C2=A0</div><=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:44 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@r=
aszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism=
 is narrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact=C2=A0their n=
ext hops.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The reason being that the moment y=
ou make the solution generic, moreover the moment you want it to be used in=
 RIB and data plane I am afraid you are running into similar=C2=A0(even if =
local) deaggregation mechanism like recently described in RIFT. That would =
kill all the scalability of advertising summary routes in the first place a=
nd I bet would face lots of opposition.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,=
</div><div>R.</div></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I would actually trim most use cases leaving=
 just one - to signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presen=
ce of summary route being advertised from remote area or pop.=C2=A0<br></di=
v></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0[WAJ] Yes, t=
his may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism can also apply t=
o other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.</div></div></di=
v>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:03:36 +0100
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To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/wjZ1bwZRP7OcQzDeBZkCNd-KJUc>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Jeff,

I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something inherently
negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's data plane
lookup does not really support "if does not match" checks.

So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane as result you
need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your unreachable
advertisement mask.

Hence my recommendation to use IGP to flood unreachable only for the
purpose of control plane (namely BGP paths invalidation).

Cheers,
R.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8:29 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =
 the example is
> rather  unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditional and well
> contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t  affect overall scalabil=
ity.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Aijun,
>
> I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed dow=
n
> to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.
>
> The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover
> the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you a=
re
> running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recentl=
y
> described in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising
> summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition=
.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote
>> service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being
>> advertised from remote area or pop.
>>
>>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism
> can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solutio=
n.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Jeff,=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I was not bringing RIFT&#39=
;s negative routies example as something inherently negative. I was just po=
inting it out to illustrate that today&#39;s data plane lookup does not rea=
lly support &quot;if does not match&quot; checks.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div=
><div>So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane as=C2=A0re=
sult you need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your unreachable =
advertisement mask.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Hence my recommendation =
to use IGP to flood unreachable only for the purpose of control plane (name=
ly BGP paths invalidation).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><di=
v>R.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gm=
ail_attr">On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8:29 PM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">As RIF=
T chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =C2=A0th=
e example is rather =C2=A0unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditiona=
l and well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t =C2=A0affect ov=
erall scalability.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robe=
rt Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert=
@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br></div><div>I would in fact only propose that th=
e presented mechanism is narrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes -=
 in fact=C2=A0their next hops.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The reason be=
ing that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover the moment you =
want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are running into s=
imilar=C2=A0(even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently described=
 in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising summary routes=
 in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I wo=
uld actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote servic=
e node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being advertise=
d from remote area or pop.=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></=
div></blockquote><div>=C2=A0[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case=
, but the PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make =
it one general solution.</div></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr m=
ailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<=
/a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

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Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 12:19:58 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Thanks for clarification Robert, makes sense.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Nov 15, 2020, 12:03 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wro=
te:
> Jeff,
>
> I was not bringing RI=46T's negative routies example as something inher=
ently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's dat=
a plane lookup does not really support =22if does not match=22 checks.
>
> So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane as=C2=A0resu=
lt you need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your unreachable =
advertisement mask.
>
> Hence my recommendation to use IGP to flood unreachable only for the pu=
rpose of control plane (namely BGP paths invalidation).
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
> > On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8:29 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.=
com> wrote:
> > > As RI=46T chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 co=
mment - =C2=A0the example is rather =C2=A0unfortunate, in RI=46T disaggre=
gation is conditional and well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=
=99t =C2=A0affect overall scalability.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > > On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net> wr=
ote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Aijun,
> > > > >
> > > > > I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is na=
rrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact=C2=A0their next =
hops.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic,=
 moreover the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am af=
raid you are running into similar=C2=A0(even if local) deaggregation mech=
anism like recently described in RI=46T. That would kill all the scalabil=
ity of advertising summary routes in the first place and I bet would face=
 lots of opposition.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thx,
> > > > > R.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - t=
o signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summa=
ry route being advertised from remote area or pop.
> > > > > =C2=A0=5BWAJ=5D Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but =
the PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it o=
ne general solution.
> > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=

> > > > Lsr mailing list
> > > > Lsr=40ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>Thanks for clarification Robert, makes sense.&=2316=
0;</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br />
<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On Nov 15, 2020, 12:03 PM -0800, Ro=
bert Raszuk &lt;robert=40raszuk.net&gt;, wrote:<br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 style=3D=22border-left-color: grey; border-=
left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left:=
 10px;=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>Jeff,&=23160;
<div><br /></div>
<div>I was not bringing RI=46T's negative routies example as something in=
herently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's =
data plane lookup does not really support =22if does not match=22 checks.=
&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane as&=23160=
;result you need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your unreach=
able advertisement mask.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Hence my recommendation to use IGP to flood unreachable only for the=
 purpose of control plane (namely BGP paths invalidation).&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>R.</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22 class=3D=22gmail=5Fattr=22>On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8=
:29 PM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com=22=
>jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br /></div>
<blockquote class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>As RI=46T chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Ro=
bert=E2=80=99 comment - &=23160;the example is rather &=23160;unfortunate=
, in RI=46T disaggregation is conditional and well contained within its c=
ontext, it doesn=E2=80=99t &=23160;affect overall scalability.<br />
<br />
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>Regards,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22><br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22>On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk &l=
t;<a href=3D=22mailto:robert=40raszuk.net=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>robe=
rt=40raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br />
<br /></blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>=EF=BB=BF
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>
<div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22>
<div>Hi Aijun,</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowe=
d down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact&=23160;their next hop=
s.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, more=
over the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid =
you are running into similar&=23160;(even if local) deaggregation mechani=
sm like recently described in RI=46T. That would kill all the scalability=
 of advertising summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lo=
ts of opposition.&=23160;</div>
<div><br /></div>
<div>Thx,</div>
<div>R.</div>
<div>&=23160;<br /></div>
<blockquote class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22 style=3D=22margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>
<div dir=3D=22ltr=22>
<div class=3D=22gmail=5Fquote=22>
<div>I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal re=
mote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route be=
ing advertised from remote area or pop.&=23160;<br /></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>&=23160;=5BWAJ=5D Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the=
 PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one =
general solution.</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<=
/span><br />
<span>Lsr mailing list</span><br />
<span><a href=3D=22mailto:Lsr=40ietf.org=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22>Lsr=40=
ietf.org</a></span><br />
<span><a href=3D=22https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=22 target=3D=
=22=5Fblank=22>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a></span><br />=
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--5fb18d73_436c6125_ba5e--


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
t=3DUTF-8"><style>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }body { font-size: 15px; font-fami=
ly: =E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }body { fon=
t-size: 15px; font-family: =E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-h=
eight: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span>Hello WG and Author=
s,</div><div><span><div style=3D"margin: 10px;"><div style=3D"font-size: 1=
4.6667px; line-height: 22px;">&nbsp;I have read the draft.</div><div style=
=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14=
.6667px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;I=
t is a good idea to use IGP extension to notification the HBH ablility.</s=
pan></div><div style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px;"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0=
, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;Commments as follow:</span></div><div><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-col=
or: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;1. How to enable the IGP extensions for HBH=
=EF=BC=9F</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; line-heigh=
t: 22px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;2=
. Does the IGP use the HBH option as&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background=
-color: transparent; font-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px;">criterion t=
o</span><span style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px; color: rgb=
(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;genernate a new topo=
logy?&nbsp;</span></div><div><br></div><div>BR.</div><div>Huanan Chen</div=
><div style=3D"font-size: 14.6667px; line-height: 22px;"><br></div></div><=
/span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; marg=
in-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div style=3D"border:none;border-to=
p:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIG=
HT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#0000=
00; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>Fr=
om:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com">wangyali</a></div><d=
iv><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-10-29&nbsp;21:19</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp=
;[Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00</div></div></div><div=
><div>Hello WG,</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Considering the Hop-by-Ho=
p Options header has been used for IOAM [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options],=
 Alternate Marking method [I-D.ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark], etc., but as spec=
ified in RFC8200, the Hop-by-Hop Options header is only examined and proce=
ssed if it is explicitly configured. In this case, nodes may be configured=
 to ignore the Hop-by-Hop Options header, drop packets containing a Hop-by=
-Hop Options header, or assign packets containing a Hop-by-Hop Options hea=
der to a slow processing path. Thus, the performance measurement does not =
account for all links and nodes along a path. In addition, packets carryin=
g a Hop-by-Hop Options header may be dropped, which gravely deteriorates n=
etwork performance.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Therefore, we propose=
 a new draft about IGP extensions for signaling Hop-by-Hop Options header =
processing action at node and link granularity. Such advertisement is usef=
ul for entities (e.g., the centralized controller) to gather each router's=
 processing action for achieving the computation of TE paths that be able =
to support a specific service encoded in the Hop-by-Hop Options header.</d=
iv>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Please let us know your opinion. Questions =
and comments are very welcome.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Best regar=
ds,</div>=0A<div>Yali</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div=
>-----Original Message-----</div>=0A<div>From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [m=
ailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]</div>=0A<div>Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2=
020 8:42 PM</div>=0A<div>To: Tianran Zhou &lt;zhoutianran@huawei.com&gt;; =
Huzhibo &lt;huzhibo@huawei.com&gt;; wangyali &lt;wangyali11@huawei.com&gt;=
</div>=0A<div>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-pro=
cess-00.txt</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>A new ver=
sion of I-D, draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt has been successfully submi=
tted by Yali Wang and posted to the IETF repository.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</=
div>=0A<div>Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process</div>=0A<div>Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 00</div>=0A<div>Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP Extensions for Advertising Hop-by-Hop Options Heade=
r Processing Action</div>=0A<div>Document date:&nbsp; 2020-10-29</div>=0A<=
div>Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individua=
l Submission</div>=0A<div>Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; 10</div>=0A<div>URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-h=
bh-process-00.txt</div>=0A<div>Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process/<=
/div>=0A<div>Htmlized:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process</div>=0A<div>Htmlized:&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-=
lsr-hbh-process-00</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Ab=
stract:</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; This document extends Node and Link attr=
ibute TLVs to Interior</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; Gateway Protocols (IGP) t=
o advertise the Hop-by-Hop Options header</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; proces=
sing action and supported services (e.g.&nbsp; IOAM Trace Option and</div>=
=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; Alternate Marking) at node and link granularity.&nbsp=
; Such advertisements</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; allow entities (e.g., cent=
ralized controllers) to determine whether</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; the Ho=
p-by-Hop Options header and specific services can be supported</div>=0A<di=
v>&nbsp;&nbsp; in a given network.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;=
</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>=
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissi=
on until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.</d=
iv>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>The IETF Secretariat</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</d=
iv>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A</div></blockquote>=0A</body></html>
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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: "chenhuan6@chinatelecom.cn" <chenhuan6@chinatelecom.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 02:55:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Robert:

=20

Does the following responses satisfy your concerns If I understand your =
questions correctly?=20

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Robert Raszuk
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 4:04 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee =
Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

Jeff,=20

=20

I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something =
inherently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that =
today's data plane lookup does not really support "if does not match" =
checks.

[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D =
check, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D check.  When the router =
receives the PUA information, it will install one black hole route for a =
short time.=20

=20

=20

So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane as result you =
need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your unreachable =
advertisement mask.=20

[WAJ] When the number of unreachable prefixes is limited(this is the =
common situation),  Summary Route+PUA is the most efficient solution.

=20

Hence my recommendation to use IGP to flood unreachable only for the =
purpose of control plane (namely BGP paths invalidation).=20

[WAJ]  PUA and =E2=80=9CSmart Disaggregation=E2=80=9D in RIFT aim to the =
same problems, but there are some differences:

1.     In RIFT, the parallel node will advertise the detailed prefix =
when it detects that another node on the same level can=E2=80=99t reach =
the mentioned prefix. But for PUA, the decision/advertisement is made by =
the ABR node itself that knows the failure of links/nodes.=20

2.     The advertisement information is different. In RIFT, the detail =
prefix information is advertised(by another node that can reach the =
failure prefix); in PUA, the detail unreachable prefix information is =
advertised instead(by the node that can=E2=80=99t reach the failure =
prefix).=20

 After knowing this information, the receiver node can switch the path =
to send the traffic, or trigger the BGP control plane switchover as you =
said.

=20

Cheers,

R.

=20

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8:29 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote:

As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =
 the example is rather  unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is =
conditional and well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t  =
affect overall scalability.

Regards,

Jeff





On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net =
<mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Aijun,

=20

I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed =
down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.=20

=20

The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover =
the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you =
are running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like =
recently described in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of =
advertising summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lots =
of opposition.=20

=20

Thx,

R.

=20

I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote =
service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being =
advertised from remote area or pop.=20

 [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism =
can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general =
solution.

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>=20
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Robert:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>D=
oes the following responses satisfy your concerns If I understand your =
questions correctly? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Robert Raszuk<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 16, 2020 4:04 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;; =
Aijun Wang &lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] =
Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as =
something inherently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate =
that today's data plane lookup does not really support &quot;if does not =
match&quot; checks.<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D =
check, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D check.=C2=A0 When the router =
receives the PUA information, it will install one black hole route for a =
short time. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So if you intend to use unreachable prefixes in data plane =
as&nbsp;result you need to break summary into as atomic prefixes as your =
unreachable advertisement mask.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] When the number of unreachable prefixes is limited(this is the =
common situation), =C2=A0Summary Route+PUA is the most efficient =
solution.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hence my recommendation to use IGP to flood unreachable =
only for the purpose of control plane (namely BGP paths =
invalidation).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] =C2=A0PUA and </span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E2=
=80=9C<span lang=3DEN-US>Smart Disaggregation</span>=E2=80=9D <span =
lang=3DEN-US>in RIFT aim to the same problems, but there are some =
differences:<o:p></o:p></span></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
n RIFT, the parallel node will advertise the detailed prefix when it =
detects that another node on the same level can=E2=80=99t reach the =
mentioned prefix. But for PUA, the decision/advertisement is made by the =
ABR node itself that knows the failure of links/nodes. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:39.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span></i></b><![endif]><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he advertisement information is different. In RIFT, the detail prefix =
information is advertised(by another node that can reach the failure =
prefix); in PUA, the detail unreachable prefix information is advertised =
instead(by the node that can=E2=80=99t reach the failure prefix). =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:10.5pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=C2=
=A0After knowing this information, the receiver node can switch the path =
to send the traffic, or trigger the BGP control plane switchover as you =
said.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:10.5pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>R.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 8:29 PM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:21.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>As =
RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =
&nbsp;the example is rather &nbsp;unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is =
conditional and well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t =
&nbsp;affect overall scalability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:21.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>On =
Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>=EF=BB=BF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism =
is narrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact&nbsp;their =
next hops.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The reason being that the moment you make the solution =
generic, moreover the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data =
plane I am afraid you are running into similar&nbsp;(even if local) =
deaggregation mechanism like recently described in RIFT. That would kill =
all the scalability of advertising summary routes in the first place and =
I bet would face lots of =
opposition.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thx,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>R.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to =
signal remote service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of =
summary route being advertised from remote area or =
pop.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></di=
v></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but =
the PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it =
one general solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<br>Lsr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></body></ht=
ml>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/9YE_GEG5a1M07_dl6BAk-JQIEv4>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Les:=20

=20

As you know, part of the chair=E2=80=99s duty is to determine if the =
authors have missed mentioning something in their draft proposal.  My =
questions were about the BGP-only features since it seemed obvious to me =
after working with the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps as a shepherd.   BGP =
has had direct routes since BGP-v3. =20

=20

There is appears to be interest in working on the BGP-only network and =
this topic.   The authors plan to resubmit the draft with a different =
name and details on BGP-only. =20

=20

One way to accomplish the evaluation of the =E2=80=9CBGP only=E2=80=9D =
service is to extend this WG Adoption call 1 week to allow discussion of =
that the revision that contains that information.  =20

=20

Cheerily, Susan Hares=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 6:58 PM
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; 'Jeff Tantsura'; 'Stephane =
Litkowski (slitkows)'; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements =
defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV =
defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4 =
depend upon the TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in =
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3. These procedures =
are not currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.

=20

So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support =
the goals of this draft.

=20

As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how =
a BGP only network (for example) could provide the information of =
interest.

=20

>From my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is premature.

This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment =
we simply have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy it.

=20

So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by IDR.

=20

Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would =
encourage the current authors to investigate and propose relevant =
mechanisms in all the protocols of interest in some future version of =
the draft.

At that point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption call.

=20

   Les

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' =
<slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem =
(acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi Authors,

=20

I believe this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in =
providing the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. =
However, as pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should =
remain scoped to just that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU =
information. The discussion related to Path MTU and applicability to SR =
networks are best left outside the scope of this standards track draft.

=20

Hi Sue,

=20

I would support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in =
IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.=20

=20

Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with =
how this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill =
specification points to this TLV =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4 =E2=80=93 if you see, =
there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the =
ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is =
determined. Please do not mix the following :

=20

The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link as

   specified in [RFC6325], Section =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4>  4.2.4.4.

=20

Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for =
testing MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.

=20

My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in =
normal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. =
Copying the LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.

=20

Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text =
related to that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS =
advertisements in BGP only fabric need to be specified as a base. The =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/=
 was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the =
IDR WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider =
for adoption so we can cover the BGP-only networks.

=20

I would also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the =
necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could =
tackle both the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 13 November 2020 00:20
To: 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski =
(slitkows)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:=20

=20

I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.  =20

=20

Does the name:   draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for=20

the authors and interested IDR participants.=20

=20

As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears=20

to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft.=20

=20

I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point=20

it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft. =20

=20

Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward:=20

=20

If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the=20

LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working=20

review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed.=20

=20

Please continue to comment on the draft and=20

the planned progression.=20

=20

Cheers,  Sue=20

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM
To: Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

+1 to everything Acee said

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

Speaking as an IDR WG member:

=20

The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU =
and not a path MTU.

=20

Speaking as LSR Chair:

=20

We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the =
LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this =
information as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. =
Of course, we=E2=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM
To: "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" =
<slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Stephane:

=20

My second message to this thread asked a few questions about the =
technology.  =20

=20

This information can be more than IGP information.   If SR segments =
statically defined (static or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the =
endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this =
can just be BGP.

=20

I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going until we can be sure if:  =
1) it something LSR wants to standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP =
only case.   It is clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments =
with stacked tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.

=20

The authors should be the ones to propose this in LSR.      =20

=20

Cheers,  Sue

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Litkowski =
(slitkows)
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi Sue,

=20

> The purpose behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work =
rather than to reduce the review on drafts.

=20

That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension =
now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft =
for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead for =
nothing=E2=80=A6

=20

=20

Stephane

=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10
To: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Stephane:

=20

I want to pick up on your email from two points:

=20

1)  Why not do everything in LSR?=20

<WG-chair hat>

If the feature comes with interest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and =
BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors may select to do everything in =
LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.

=20

This is optional and the mechanism may not fit every draft.   The drafts =
may also start out adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.    The purpose =
behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to =
reduce the review on drafts.

=20

</wg-chair hat off>

=20

=20

2) TRILL implementations of IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -=20

=20

If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you =
might want to check with Donald Eastlake.   My vague and foggy =
recollection is that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL =
implementations.

=20

=20

Cheers, Susan Hares

=20

=20

=20

From: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [mailto:slitkows@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi,

=20

=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in

the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D

=20

This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs =
(of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some =
MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), =
I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, =
so I may have missed it).

Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before =
adopting ?

=20

=20

Stephane

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 =
to 11/16/2020)

=20

This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for

draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).

=20

The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft

by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.

=20

You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/

=20

Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft

I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =20

this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS

and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.

=20

This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.  if you=20

are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than=20

this specific addition, please make that clear in your=20

comment in this discussion.  =20

=20

The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.=20

The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.  =20

This draft has been delayed by process of having a

new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed

on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.

=20

Cheers, Sue

=20

Background

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are

directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.  While existing MPLS technology

(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU

based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)

on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on

MTU size per link.  =20

=20

draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU

information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type =20

SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths.      =20

However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable

Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute

this information.

=20

The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size

to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and

draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this

draft as one possible way to distribute the per link

MTU. =20

=20

Questions for the authors might be:

a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in

the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS

=20

b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU?  =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Les: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As you know, part of the chair=E2=80=99s duty is to determine if the =
authors have missed mentioning something in their draft proposal.=C2=A0 =
My questions were about the BGP-only features since it seemed obvious to =
me after working with the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps as a =
shepherd.=C2=A0 =C2=A0BGP has had direct routes since BGP-v3.=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There is appears to be interest in working on the BGP-only network =
and this topic.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The authors plan to resubmit the draft with =
a different name and details on BGP-only. =C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>One way to accomplish the evaluation of the =E2=80=9CBGP =
only=E2=80=9D service is to extend this WG Adoption call 1 week to allow =
discussion of that the revision that contains that information. =
=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheerily, Susan Hares <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Friday, November 13, 2020 6:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant); Susan Hares; 'Jeff Tantsura'; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'; =
idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)'<br><b>Cc:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The points =
which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements defined in =
RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV defined in =
<a =
href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4">https://=
www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4</a> depend upon the =
TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in <a =
href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3">https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3</a>. These procedures are not =
currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So, there =
are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support the goals =
of this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As Ketan =
has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how a BGP =
only network (for example) could provide the information of =
interest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From my =
perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is =
premature.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This might =
be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment we simply =
have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So I =
therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by =
IDR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Continuing =
the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encourage the =
current authors to investigate and propose relevant mechanisms in all =
the protocols of interest in some future version of the =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At that =
point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption =
call.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Les<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' =
&lt;slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I believe =
this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in providing =
the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. However, as =
pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to =
just that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The discussion =
related to Path MTU and applicability to SR networks are best left =
outside the scope of this standards track draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Sue,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would =
support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in IDR WG =
and instead doing this in LSR. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Besides =
the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with how this =
would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill specification =
points to this TLV <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4</a> =E2=80=93 if you see, there is more =
here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the ISIS =
procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is determined. =
Please do not mix the following :<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>The MTU =
sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link =
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; specified in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4">[RFC6325], =
Section&nbsp;4.2.4.4</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Are the =
authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for testing MTU =
need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>My take is =
that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in normal ISIS =
deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. Copying the =
LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Coming to =
the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text related to that =
scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS advertisements in BGP only =
fabric need to be specified as a base. The <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only=
-fabric/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-on=
ly-fabric/</a> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would =
be great if the IDR WG could review and provide feedback to this =
document and consider for adoption so we can cover the BGP-only =
networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would =
also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the necessary =
OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could tackle =
both the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures =
together.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ketan<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> 13 November 2020 =
00:20<br><b>To:</b> 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Does the name:&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the authors and interested IDR participants. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft.&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Please continue to comment on the draft and <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the planned progression. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers,&nbsp; Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Jeff Tantsura [<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a=
>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>+1 to everything =
Acee said<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers, =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jeff<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee =
Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;, wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Speaking as =
an IDR WG member:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The name of =
the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU and not a =
path MTU.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Speaking as =
LSR Chair:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We could =
this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the LSAs for =
OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this information =
as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, =
we=E2=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and =
title.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Acee<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b> <span =
style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> =
Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> &quot;'Stephane =
Litkowski (slitkows)'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>My second message to this thread =
asked a few questions about the technology.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This information can be more than IGP =
information.&nbsp;&nbsp; If SR segments statically defined (static or =
direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps =
draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just be =
BGP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption =
call going until we can be sure if:&nbsp; 1) it something LSR wants to =
standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only case.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is =
clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stacked tunnel =
segments passed by BGP was useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The authors should be the ones to =
propose this in LSR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Cheers, =
&nbsp;Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>Hi Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&gt; <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The purpose behind this =
mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the =
review on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF =
extension now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a =
new draft for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead =
for nothing=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>From:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent:</b> =
lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10<br><b>To:</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com">slitkows@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I want to pick up on your email from =
two points:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>1)&nbsp; Why not do everything in =
LSR?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;WG-chair =
hat&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If the feature comes with interest in =
doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors =
may select to do everything in LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to =
maintain.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is optional and the mechanism =
may not fit every draft. &nbsp;&nbsp;The drafts may also start out =
adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The purpose behind =
this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce =
the review on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;/wg-chair hat =
off&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>2) TRILL implementations of</span> =
IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in =
TRILL, you might want to check with Donald Eastlake.&nbsp;&nbsp; My =
vague and foggy recollection is that had some implementations or came =
from pre-TRILL implementations.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Cheers, Susan Hares<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Stephane =
Litkowski (slitkows) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com">mailto:slitkows@cisco.com</a>]<br><b>S=
ent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; =
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs =
in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in =
BGP-LS=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP =
LSDBs (of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has =
some MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been =
implemented), I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an =
OSPF expert, so I may have missed it).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before =
adopting ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>From:</b> Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi 2 novembre 2020 =
06:04<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 =
11/16/2020).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The authors should send in an IPR statement for this =
draft<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their =
decision.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>You can access the draft at:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/</a><o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR =
draft<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to =
BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>and the =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright =
dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.&nbsp; if =
you</span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span> <span lang=3DEN-IN =
dir=3DLTR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright =
dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than</span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span> <span dir=3DLTR><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>this specific addition, please make that clear in =
your</span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span> <span =
lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright =
dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>comment in this discussion.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span> <span lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span dir=3DLTR></span><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><span dir=3DLTR></span>&nbsp;<span lang=3DHE =
dir=3DRTL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.&nbsp;<span =
lang=3DAR-SA dir=3DRTL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<span lang=3DAR-SA dir=3DRTL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This draft has been delayed by process of having a<span lang=3DHE =
dir=3DRTL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Cheers, Sue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Background<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that =
are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.&nbsp; While existing MPLS =
technology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path =
MTU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing =
(SR)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information =
on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>MTU size per link.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH =
MTU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel =
type &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>However, it lacks the information to create a =
reasonable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does =
distribute<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>this information.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU =
size<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions =
this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft as one possible way to distribute the per =
link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>MTU. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Questions for the authors might be:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU? =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Idr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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Cc: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'Stephane Litkowski \(slitkows\)'" <slitkows=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <idr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/TnwVpVPqApgEpuADwDYQP6uqww8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Jeff:

=20

I agree your BGP-LS only deployment in the MSD document were not well =
defined.   =20

=20

Starting a new set of work to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is =
important.  If this document start the process to refine how BGP-only =
works, this will help defined this usage.   I stand by the agreement =
that the BGP-LS that exposes the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU proposal can be =
adopted in LSR.  However, this discussion has confirmed that the BGP-LS =
support for BGP-only needs some BGP focus.=20

=20

If there are other drafts on this topic, it would be good to suggest =
this drafts on the list.   Ketan suggested he had one.=20

=20

Cheers, Sue=20

=20

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:52 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski =
(slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee); lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG =
reviews, BGP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had =
been removed from the draft. It will require much better discussion to =
have it included.

Regards,

Jeff





On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> =
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements =
defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV =
defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4 =
depend upon the TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in =
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3. These procedures =
are not currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.

=20

So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support =
the goals of this draft.

=20

As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how =
a BGP only network (for example) could provide the information of =
interest.

=20

>From my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is premature.

This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment =
we simply have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy it.

=20

So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by IDR.

=20

Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would =
encourage the current authors to investigate and propose relevant =
mechanisms in all the protocols of interest in some future version of =
the draft.

At that point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption call.

=20

   Les

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' =
<slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem =
(acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi Authors,

=20

I believe this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in =
providing the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. =
However, as pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should =
remain scoped to just that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU =
information. The discussion related to Path MTU and applicability to SR =
networks are best left outside the scope of this standards track draft.

=20

Hi Sue,

=20

I would support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in =
IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.=20

=20

Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with =
how this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill =
specification points to this TLV =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4 =E2=80=93 if you see, =
there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the =
ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is =
determined. Please do not mix the following :

=20

The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link as

   specified in [RFC6325], Section =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4>  4.2.4.4.

=20

Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for =
testing MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.

=20

My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in =
normal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. =
Copying the LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.

=20

Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text =
related to that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS =
advertisements in BGP only fabric need to be specified as a base. The =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/=
 was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the =
IDR WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider =
for adoption so we can cover the BGP-only networks.

=20

I would also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the =
necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could =
tackle both the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: 13 November 2020 00:20
To: 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski =
(slitkows)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:=20

=20

I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.  =20

=20

Does the name:   draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for=20

the authors and interested IDR participants.=20

=20

As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears=20

to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft.=20

=20

I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point=20

it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft. =20

=20

Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward:=20

=20

If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the=20

LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working=20

review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed.=20

=20

Please continue to comment on the draft and=20

the planned progression.=20

=20

Cheers,  Sue=20

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM
To: Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

+1 to everything Acee said

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

Speaking as an IDR WG member:

=20

The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU =
and not a path MTU.

=20

Speaking as LSR Chair:

=20

We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the =
LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this =
information as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. =
Of course, we=E2=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares =
<shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM
To: "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" =
<slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Stephane:

=20

My second message to this thread asked a few questions about the =
technology.  =20

=20

This information can be more than IGP information.   If SR segments =
statically defined (static or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the =
endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this =
can just be BGP.

=20

I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going until we can be sure if:  =
1) it something LSR wants to standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP =
only case.   It is clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments =
with stacked tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.

=20

The authors should be the ones to propose this in LSR.      =20

=20

Cheers,  Sue

=20

From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Litkowski =
(slitkows)
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi Sue,

=20

> The purpose behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work =
rather than to reduce the review on drafts.

=20

That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension =
now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft =
for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead for =
nothing=E2=80=A6

=20

=20

Stephane

=20

=20

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Sent: lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10
To: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Stephane:

=20

I want to pick up on your email from two points:

=20

1)  Why not do everything in LSR?=20

<WG-chair hat>

If the feature comes with interest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and =
BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors may select to do everything in =
LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.

=20

This is optional and the mechanism may not fit every draft.   The drafts =
may also start out adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.    The purpose =
behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to =
reduce the review on drafts.

=20

</wg-chair hat off>

=20

=20

2) TRILL implementations of IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -=20

=20

If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you =
might want to check with Donald Eastlake.   My vague and foggy =
recollection is that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL =
implementations.

=20

=20

Cheers, Susan Hares

=20

=20

=20

From: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [mailto:slitkows@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM
To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu =
(11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)

=20

Hi,

=20

=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in

the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D

=20

This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs =
(of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some =
MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), =
I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, =
so I may have missed it).

Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before =
adopting ?

=20

=20

Stephane

=20

=20

From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
Sent: lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04
To: idr@ietf.org
Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 =
to 11/16/2020)

=20

This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for

draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).

=20

The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft

by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.

=20

You can access the draft at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/

=20

Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft

I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =20

this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS

and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.

=20

This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.  if you=20

are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than=20

this specific addition, please make that clear in your=20

comment in this discussion.  =20

=20

The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.=20

The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.  =20

This draft has been delayed by process of having a

new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed

on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.

=20

Cheers, Sue

=20

Background

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are

directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.  While existing MPLS technology

(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU

based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)

on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on

MTU size per link.  =20

=20

draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU

information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type =20

SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths.      =20

However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable

Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute

this information.

=20

The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size

to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and

draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this

draft as one possible way to distribute the per link

MTU. =20

=20

Questions for the authors might be:

a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in

the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS

=20

b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU?  =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

_______________________________________________
Idr mailing list
Idr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jeff:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree your BGP-LS only deployment in the MSD document were not well =
defined. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Starting a new set of work to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is =
important.=C2=A0 If this document start the process to refine how =
BGP-only works, this will help defined this usage.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I stand =
by the agreement that the BGP-LS that exposes the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU =
proposal can be adopted in LSR.=C2=A0 However, this discussion has =
confirmed that the BGP-LS support for BGP-only needs some BGP focus. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If there are other drafts on this topic, it would be good to suggest =
this drafts on the list.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ketan suggested he had one. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers, Sue <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, =
November 13, 2020 8:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg =
(ginsberg)<br><b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; =
Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee); =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only =
scenario, during MSD IESG reviews, BGP-LS only deployment was found not =
well characterized and had been removed from the draft. It will require =
much better discussion to have it included.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jeff<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg =
(ginsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=EF=BB=BF</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The points =
which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements defined in =
RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV defined in =
<a =
href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4">https://=
www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4</a> depend upon the =
TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in <a =
href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3">https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3</a>. These procedures are not =
currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So, there =
are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support the goals =
of this draft.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As Ketan =
has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how a BGP =
only network (for example) could provide the information of =
interest.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From my =
perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is =
premature.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This might =
be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment we simply =
have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy =
it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>So I =
therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by =
IDR.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Continuing =
the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encourage the =
current authors to investigate and propose relevant mechanisms in all =
the protocols of interest in some future version of the =
draft.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>At that =
point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption =
call.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Les</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;idr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' =
&lt;slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Authors,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I believe =
this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in providing =
the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. However, as =
pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to =
just that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The discussion =
related to Path MTU and applicability to SR networks are best left =
outside the scope of this standards track draft.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hi =
Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would =
support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in IDR WG =
and instead doing this in LSR. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Besides =
the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with how this =
would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill specification =
points to this TLV <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4</a> =E2=80=93 if you see, there is more =
here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the ISIS =
procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is determined. =
Please do not mix the following :</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>The MTU =
sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link =
as</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; specified in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4">[RFC6325], =
Section&nbsp;4.2.4.4</a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Are the =
authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for testing MTU =
need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>My take is =
that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in normal ISIS =
deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. Copying the =
LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong =
here.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Coming to =
the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text related to that =
scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS advertisements in BGP only =
fabric need to be specified as a base. The <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only=
-fabric/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-on=
ly-fabric/</a> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would =
be great if the IDR WG could review and provide feedback to this =
document and consider for adoption so we can cover the BGP-only =
networks.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I would =
also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the necessary =
OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could tackle =
both the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures =
together.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thanks,</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Ketan</span=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Idr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> 13 November 2020 =
00:20<br><b>To:</b> 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Does the name:&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the authors and interested IDR participants. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft.&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward: =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Please continue to comment on the draft and </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>the planned progression. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Cheers,&nbsp; Sue </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Jeff Tantsura [<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a=
>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for =
draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div =
name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>+1 to everything =
Acee said<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers, =
<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Jeff<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee =
Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;, wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Speaking as =
an IDR WG member:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The name of =
the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU and not a =
path MTU.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Speaking as =
LSR Chair:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We could =
this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the LSAs for =
OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this information =
as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, =
we=E2=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and =
title.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Acee<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b> <span =
style=3D'color:black'>Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> =
Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> &quot;'Stephane =
Litkowski (slitkows)'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>My second message to this thread =
asked a few questions about the technology.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This information can be more than IGP =
information.&nbsp;&nbsp; If SR segments statically defined (static or =
direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps =
draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just be =
BGP.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption =
call going until we can be sure if:&nbsp; 1) it something LSR wants to =
standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only case.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is =
clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stacked tunnel =
segments passed by BGP was useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The authors should be the ones to =
propose this in LSR.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Cheers, =
&nbsp;Sue</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Idr [<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>Hi Sue,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&gt; <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The purpose behind this =
mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the =
review on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF =
extension now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a =
new draft for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead =
for nothing=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>From:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent:</b> =
lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10<br><b>To:</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com">slitkows@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Stephane:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I want to pick up on your email from =
two points:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>1)&nbsp; Why not do everything in =
LSR?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;WG-chair =
hat&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>If the feature comes with interest in =
doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors =
may select to do everything in LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to =
maintain.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is optional and the mechanism =
may not fit every draft. &nbsp;&nbsp;The drafts may also start out =
adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The purpose behind =
this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce =
the review on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&lt;/wg-chair hat =
off&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>2) TRILL implementations of</span> =
IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in =
TRILL, you might want to check with Donald Eastlake.&nbsp;&nbsp; My =
vague and foggy recollection is that had some implementations or came =
from pre-TRILL implementations.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Cheers, Susan Hares<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Stephane =
Litkowski (slitkows) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com">mailto:slitkows@cisco.com</a>]<br><b>S=
ent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> Susan Hares; =
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: =
[Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs =
in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in =
BGP-LS=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP =
LSDBs (of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has =
some MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been =
implemented), I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an =
OSPF expert, so I may have missed it).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before =
adopting ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Stephane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><b>From:</b> Idr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of</b> Susan Hares<br><b>Sent:</b> lundi 2 novembre 2020 =
06:04<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Idr] =
WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to =
11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span lang=3DFR>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 =
11/16/2020).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The authors should send in an IPR statement for this =
draft<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their =
decision.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>You can access the draft at:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/</a><o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR =
draft<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to =
BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>and the =
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.&nbsp; if =
you</span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span> <span =
lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright =
dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than</span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span> <span lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>this specific addition, please make that clear in =
your</span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span> <span =
lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dright =
dir=3DRTL =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed'><span =
dir=3DLTR>comment in this discussion.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span dir=3DRTL></span><span =
dir=3DRTL></span> <span lang=3DHE><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span dir=3DLTR></span><span dir=3DLTR></span><span =
dir=3DLTR></span><span dir=3DLTR></span>&nbsp;<span lang=3DHE =
dir=3DRTL><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF =
108.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>This draft has been delayed by process of having a<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Cheers, Sue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Background<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that =
are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.&nbsp; While existing MPLS =
technology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path =
MTU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing =
(SR)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information =
on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>MTU size per link.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH =
MTU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel =
type &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>However, it lacks the information to create a =
reasonable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does =
distribute<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>this information.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU =
size<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions =
this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>draft as one possible way to distribute the per =
link<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>MTU. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>Questions for the authors might be:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU? =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Idr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org">Idr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/idr</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></di=
v></body></html>
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:25:24 +0100
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/J8X80XKr8ezn7bHkUvfjOcaRj1Q>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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--000000000000331d2605b4351fa6
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>
> I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something inherentl=
y
> negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's data plan=
e
> lookup does not really support "if does not match" checks.
>
> *[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D che=
ck, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not
> match=E2=80=9D check.  When the router receives the PUA information, it w=
ill
> install one black hole route for a short time.*
>

So your idea is that you install route for unreachable prefix to /dev/null
?

And how would that help connectivity restoration ?

Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to
locally bypass the failed destination.

Bottom line is that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO
described actions upon reception of PUA are questionable at best.

Cheers,
R.

--000000000000331d2605b4351fa6
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-6019644151734=
783950WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2=
1pt">I was not bringing RIFT&#39;s negative routies example as something in=
herently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today&#39;=
s data plane lookup does not really support &quot;if does not match&quot; c=
hecks.<br></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt">=
<b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=
=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still th=
e =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D check, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D check=
.=C2=A0 When the router receives the PUA information, it will install one b=
lack hole route for a short time.</span></i></b></p></div></div></div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So your idea is that you install route fo=
r unreachable prefix to /dev/null ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>And how =
would that help connectivity restoration ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>M=
oreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to loc=
ally bypass the failed destination.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Bottom l=
ine is that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO described acti=
ons upon reception of PUA are questionable at best.=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Cheers,<br>R.</div></div></div>

--000000000000331d2605b4351fa6--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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+1 with Robert.

So you expect the following RIB state after PUA has been advertised:
10.0.0.1 - drop
10/24 - forward=20

Unless there=E2=80=99s a recursively discarded next-hop (ala RTBH )  - how d=
o you envision it?

Regards,
Jeff

> On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:25, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
>> I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something inherentl=
y negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's data plane=
 lookup does not really support "if does not match" checks.
>>=20
>> [WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D chec=
k, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D check.  When the router receives the=
 PUA information, it will install one black hole route for a short time.
>>=20
>=20
> So your idea is that you install route for unreachable prefix to /dev/null=
 ?=20
>=20
> And how would that help connectivity restoration ?=20
>=20
> Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to l=
ocally bypass the failed destination.=20
>=20
> Bottom line is that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO descr=
ibed actions upon reception of PUA are questionable at best.=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> R.

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">+1 with Robert.<div><br></div><div>So you e=
xpect the following RIB state after PUA has been advertised:</div><div>10.0.=
0.1 - drop</div><div>10/24 - forward&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Unless t=
here=E2=80=99s a recursively discarded next-hop (ala RTBH ) &nbsp;- how do y=
ou envision it?<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:25, Robert Ra=
szuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN">=
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-6019644151734783950WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt">I was not bringing RIFT's negative ro=
uties example as something inherently negative. I was just pointing it out t=
o illustrate that today's data plane lookup does not really support "if does=
 not match" checks.<br></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:21pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] In data plane, the device do=
 still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D check, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D=
 check.&nbsp; When the router receives the PUA information, it will install o=
ne black hole route for a short time.</span></i></b></p></div></div></div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So your idea is that you install route f=
or unreachable prefix to /dev/null ?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>And how w=
ould that help connectivity restoration ?&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Mor=
eover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to locall=
y bypass the failed destination.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Bottom line i=
s that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO described actions up=
on reception of PUA are questionable at best.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div=
>Cheers,<br>R.</div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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Sue,

Ketan=E2=80=99s draft would be a great starting point.

Regards,
Jeff

> On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:04, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Sue,
> =20
> I was referring to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-l=
s-bgp-only-fabric/
> =20
> Seeing the interest in the WG to progress BGP-LS advertisements in BGP-onl=
y networks, I would request for the WG to consider adoption of the above dra=
ft. I believe the problem statement of the draft is clear and acknowledge th=
at it needs updates. So I will leave it to the chairs=E2=80=99 judgement if i=
t is in a good enough state for adoption =F0=9F=98=8A
> =20
> Thanks,
> Ketan
> =20
> From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>=20
> Sent: 16 November 2020 11:40
> To: 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <gi=
nsberg@cisco.com>
> Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; Stephane Litkowski (slit=
kows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com=
>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Jeff:
> =20
> I agree your BGP-LS only deployment in the MSD document were not well defi=
ned.   =20
> =20
> Starting a new set of work to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is important. =
 If this document start the process to refine how BGP-only works, this will h=
elp defined this usage.   I stand by the agreement that the BGP-LS that expo=
ses the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU proposal can be adopted in LSR.  However, this di=
scussion has confirmed that the BGP-LS support for BGP-only needs some BGP f=
ocus.
> =20
> If there are other drafts on this topic, it would be good to suggest this d=
rafts on the list.   Ketan suggested he had one.
> =20
> Cheers, Sue
> =20
> =20
> From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:52 PM
> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
> Cc: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows);=
 idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee); lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG review=
s, BGP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had been remo=
ved from the draft. It will require much better discussion to have it includ=
ed.
>=20
> Regards,
> Jeff
> =20
>=20
> On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements de=
fined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV define=
d in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4 depend upon the=
 TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in https://www.rfc-edit=
or.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3. These procedures are not currently applica=
ble to non-TRILL environments.
> =20
> So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support the=
 goals of this draft.
> =20
> As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how a B=
GP only network (for example) could provide the information of interest.
> =20
> =46rom my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is premature.
> This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment w=
e simply have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy it.
> =20
> So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by IDR.
> =20
> Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encour=
age the current authors to investigate and propose relevant mechanisms in al=
l the protocols of interest in some future version of the draft.
> At that point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption call.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM
> To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.co=
m>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;=
 idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi Authors,
> =20
> I believe this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in prov=
iding the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS. However, a=
s pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to ju=
st that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The discussion relate=
d to Path MTU and applicability to SR networks are best left outside the sco=
pe of this standards track draft.
> =20
> Hi Sue,
> =20
> I would support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in ID=
R WG and instead doing this in LSR.
> =20
> Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with how=
 this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill specification po=
ints to this TLV https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4 =E2=80=93 i=
f you see, there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critical=
 is the ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is dete=
rmined. Please do not mix the following :
> =20
> The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link as
>    specified in [RFC6325], Section 4.2.4.4.
> =20
> Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for testing M=
TU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.
> =20
> My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in nor=
mal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified. Copying=
 the LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.
> =20
> Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text related t=
o that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS advertisements in BGP o=
nly fabric need to be specified as a base. The https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/ was my attempt to specify those=
 procedures and it would be great if the IDR WG could review and provide fee=
dback to this document and consider for adoption so we can cover the BGP-onl=
y networks.
> =20
> I would also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the neces=
sary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could tackle bo=
th the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Ketan
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
> Sent: 13 November 2020 00:20
> To: 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitko=
ws)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (ac=
ee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:
> =20
> I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.  =20
> =20
> Does the name:   draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
> the authors and interested IDR participants.
> =20
> As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears
> to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft.
> =20
> I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point
> it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft.=20
> =20
> Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward:
> =20
> If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the
> LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working
> review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed.
> =20
> Please continue to comment on the draft and
> the planned progression.
> =20
> Cheers,  Sue
> =20
> From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM
> To: Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (=
acee)
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> +1 to everything Acee said
> =20
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dma=
rc.ietf.org>, wrote:
>=20
> Speaking as an IDR WG member:
> =20
> The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU a=
nd not a path MTU.
> =20
> Speaking as LSR Chair:
> =20
> We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the LSA=
s for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this informatio=
n as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, we=E2=
=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com=
>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> To: "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Stephane:
> =20
> My second message to this thread asked a few questions about the technolog=
y.  =20
> =20
> This information can be more than IGP information.   If SR segments static=
ally defined (static or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints vi=
a BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just be BGP.
> =20
> I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going until we can be sure if:  1)=
 it something LSR wants to standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only c=
ase.   It is clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stack=
ed tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.
> =20
> The authors should be the ones to propose this in LSR.      =20
> =20
> Cheers,  Sue
> =20
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Litkowski (s=
litkows)
> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM
> To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi Sue,
> =20
> > The purpose behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rathe=
r than to reduce the review on drafts.
> =20
> That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension now=
 and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft for a v=
ery very small extension. Just adds process overhead for nothing=E2=80=A6
> =20
> =20
> Stephane
> =20
> =20
> From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> Sent: lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10
> To: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Stephane:
> =20
> I want to pick up on your email from two points:
> =20
> 1)  Why not do everything in LSR?=20
> <WG-chair hat>
> If the feature comes with interest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS d=
ata gathering), then the authors may select to do everything in LSR rather t=
han have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.
> =20
> This is optional and the mechanism may not fit every draft.   The drafts m=
ay also start out adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.    The purpose behind t=
his mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the rev=
iew on drafts.
> =20
> </wg-chair hat off>
> =20
> =20
> 2) TRILL implementations of IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -=20
> =20
> If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you m=
ight want to check with Donald Eastlake.   My vague and foggy recollection i=
s that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL implementations.
> =20
> =20
> Cheers, Susan Hares
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [mailto:slitkows@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM
> To: Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/202=
0 to 11/16/2020)
> =20
> Hi,
> =20
> =E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D
> =20
> This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs (of c=
ourse there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some MTU subTLV c=
oming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), I don=E2=80=99t s=
ee anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, so I may have missed i=
t).
> Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before adoptin=
g ?
> =20
> =20
> Stephane
> =20
> =20
> From: Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Susan Hares
> Sent: lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04
> To: idr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to=
 11/16/2020)
> =20
> This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for
> draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).
> =20
> The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft
> by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.
> =20
> You can access the draft at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/
> =20
> Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft
> I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place =20
> this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS
> and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.
> =20
> This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.  if you
> are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than
> this specific addition, please make that clear in your
> comment in this discussion. =20
> =20
> The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.=20
> The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.  =20
> This draft has been delayed by process of having a
> new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed
> on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.
> =20
> Cheers, Sue
> =20
> Background
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are
> directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.  While existing MPLS technology
> (LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU
> based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)
> on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on
> MTU size per link.  =20
> =20
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU
> information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type =20
> SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths.      =20
> However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable
> Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute
> this information.
> =20
> The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size
> to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this
> draft as one possible way to distribute the per link
> MTU. =20
> =20
> Questions for the authors might be:
> a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS
> =20
> b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU?  =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Sue,<div><br></div><div>Ketan=E2=80=99s dra=
ft would be a great starting point.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jef=
f</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 16, 2020,=
 at 00:04, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;ketant@cisco.com&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Sue,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I was referring to
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only=
-fabric/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/</a=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Seeing the interest in the=
 WG to progress BGP-LS advertisements in BGP-only networks, I would request f=
or the WG to consider adoption of the above
 draft. I believe the problem statement of the draft is clear and acknowledg=
e that it needs updates. So I will leave it to the chairs=E2=80=99 judgement=
 if it is in a good enough state for adoption
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot=
;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">=F0=9F=98=8A</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-langu=
age:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Sus=
an Hares &lt;shares@ndzh.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 16 November 2020 11:40<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;; Les Ginsberg (gi=
nsberg) &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;ketant@cisco.com&gt;; Stephane Litk=
owski (slitkows) &lt;slitkows@cisco.com&gt;; idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee=
) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jeff:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I agree your BGP-LS only=
 deployment in the MSD document were not well defined. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Starting a new set of wo=
rk to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is important.&nbsp; If this document sta=
rt the process to refine how BGP-only works, this
 will help defined this usage.&nbsp; &nbsp;I stand by the agreement that the=
 BGP-LS that exposes the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU proposal can be adopted in LSR.&=
nbsp; However, this discussion has confirmed that the BGP-LS support for BGP=
-only needs some BGP focus.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If there are other draft=
s on this topic, it would be good to suggest this drafts on the list.&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Ketan suggested he had one.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers, Sue
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Jeff T=
antsura [<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gma=
il.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 8:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitk=
ows);
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem (acee); <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">
lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">T=
o add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG reviews, B=
GP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had been removed f=
rom the draft. It will require much better
 discussion to have it included.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">O=
n Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gins=
berg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif">=EF=BB=BF</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The points which Ketan has made regard=
ing the use of MTU advertisements defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed=
, the contents of the sub-TLV defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4">https://=
www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4</a> depend upon the TRILL sp=
ecific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3">https://www=
.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3</a>. These procedures are not curr=
ently applicable to non-TRILL environments.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So, there are no existing IGP advertis=
ements defined which can support the goals of this draft.</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">As Ketan has also indicated, there is n=
o discussion in the draft of how a BGP only network (for example) could prov=
ide the information of interest.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=46rom my perspective, WG adoption of t=
his draft in ANY WG is premature.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">This might be a useful functionality t=
o have =E2=80=93 but at the moment we simply have an idea with no definition=
 of how to implement/deploy it.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So I therefore oppose WG adoption of t=
his draft by IDR.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Continuing the discussion is certainly=
 useful =E2=80=93 and I would encourage the current authors to investigate a=
nd propose relevant mechanisms in all the protocols of
 interest in some future version of the draft.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">At that point we could then have a far=
 more meaningful WG adoption call.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.co=
m</a>&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.=
ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc=
.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Authors,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">I believe this work is useful and should be taken up.=
 It has value in providing the link MTU as part of the topology information v=
ia BGP-LS. However, as pointed out by others
 on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to just that =E2=80=93 i.e. p=
roviding link MTU information. The discussion related to Path MTU and applic=
ability to SR networks are best left outside the scope of this standards tra=
ck draft.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Sue,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">I would support the points made by Acee for not takin=
g up this draft in IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are=
 also issues with how this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS T=
rill specification points to this TLV
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4">https://tools.ie=
tf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4</a> =E2=80=93 if you see, there is more here=
 than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the ISIS procedures (in n=
on-Trill deployments) on how this value
 is determined. Please do not mix the following :</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:black">The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce t=
he MTU of a link as</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cou=
rier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; specified in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4">[RFC6325], S=
ection&nbsp;4.2.4.4</a>.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill pr=
ocedures for testing MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill m=
ay be re-used in normal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to b=
e specified. Copying the LSR WG so that I
 may be corrected if I am wrong here.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft h=
as zero text related to that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS a=
dvertisements in BGP only fabric need to be
 specified as a base. The <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/</a=
> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the ID=
R WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider for ado=
ption so we can cover the BGP-only
 networks.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">I would also like to offer support/help to the author=
s in adding the necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft whe=
re we could tackle both the IGPs and BGP-LS
 encoding and procedures together.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">Ketan</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Idr=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 November 2020 00:20<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.=
ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc=
.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jeff and Authors of draf=
t-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I do believe the authors=
 agreed to renaming the draft.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Does the name:&nbsp;&nbs=
p; draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">the authors and interest=
ed IDR participants.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As the end of 12 days of=
 the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">to have general consensu=
s from the WG as a useful draft.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I plan to allow 2 more d=
ays of comment, but at this point
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">it appears the WG wishes=
 to adopt this draft.&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Here=E2=80=99s my unders=
tanding of the best way forward:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If LSR adopts a version o=
f the draft, IDR will allow the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">LSR WG to be the main so=
urce as long as cross-working
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">review occurs so the BGP=
-only function can be reviewed.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please continue to comme=
nt on the draft and
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">the planned progression.=

</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,&nbsp; Sue
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Jeff T=
antsura [<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:jefftant.ietf@gma=
il.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); <a href=3D"mailto:idr=
@ietf.org">
idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">+1 to everything Acee said<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageReplySection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">O=
n Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=
=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, wr=
ote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as an IDR WG member:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the ex=
tension is for a Link MTU and not a path MTU.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as LSR Chair:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We could this in LSR as there is currently no M=
TU advertisement in the LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already m=
ake use of this information as it
 is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, we=E2=80=99=
d require a more accurate draft name and title.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <span style=3D"color:black">
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
 on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh=
.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, I=
DR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Stephane:</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">My second message to this threa=
d asked a few questions about the technology.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">This information can be more th=
an IGP information.&nbsp;&nbsp; If SR segments statically defined (static or=
 direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps dra=
ft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just
 be BGP.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adopt=
ion call going until we can be sure if:&nbsp; 1) it something LSR wants to s=
tandardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only case.&nbsp; &nbsp;It is clear=
 to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stacked
 tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">The authors should be the ones t=
o propose this in LSR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Cheers, &nbsp;Sue</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Taho=
ma&quot;,sans-serif">Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:idr=
-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>=

<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">Hi Sue,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The purpose behind t=
his mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the rev=
iew on drafts.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do=
 OSPF extension now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will require a=
 new draft for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead for n=
othing=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Susan Hares &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisc=
o.com">slitkows@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Stephane:</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I want to pick up on your email=
 from two points:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">1)&nbsp; Why not do everything i=
n LSR?&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;WG-chair hat&gt;</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">If the feature comes with inter=
est in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS data gathering), then the authors=
 may select to do everything in LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to mainta=
in.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">This is optional and the mechan=
ism may not fit every draft. &nbsp;&nbsp;The drafts may also start out adopt=
ed and vetted in LSR and IDR.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The purpose behind this mech=
anism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce
 the review on drafts.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;/wg-chair hat off&gt;</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">2) TRILL implementations of</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"> IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are interested in whether this has been implemen=
ted in TRILL, you might want to check with Donald Eastlake.&nbsp;&nbsp; My v=
ague and foggy recollection is that had some implementations or came from pr=
e-TRILL implementations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, Susan Hares<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Taho=
ma&quot;,sans-serif">Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [<a href=3D"mailto:slitko=
ws@cisco.com">mailto:slitkows@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>=

<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/=
1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feede=
d by IGP LSDBs (of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS h=
as some MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemente=
d), I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF
 (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, so I may have missed it).<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LS=
R WG before adopting ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Idr &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org">idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/20=
20 to 11/16/2020)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11=
/16/2020).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The authors should send in an IPR statement for this dr=
aft<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their d=
ecision.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">You can access the draft at:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-i=
dr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-p=
ath-mtu/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help=
 you place &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">this draft into the larger context of the SR additions t=
o BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LT=
R"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.&=
nbsp; if you</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather t=
han</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">this specific addition, please make that cl=
ear in your</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:left;direc=
tion:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">comment in this discussion.&nbsp;&nbsp;</sp=
an><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><s=
pan dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span=
 dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"HE" d=
ir=3D"RTL"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"AR-SA" dir=3D"RTL"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.=
 &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This draft has been delayed by process of having a<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, Sue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Background<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.&nbsp; While existing=
 MPLS technology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path M=
TU<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routin=
g (SR)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">MTU size per link.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for t=
he tunnel type &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths. &nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">However, it lacks the information to create a reasonabl=
e<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribu=
te<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">this information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft as one possible way to distribute the per link<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">MTU. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Questions for the authors might be:<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">the IGPs? &nbsp;If so, is this needed in BGP-LS<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU? &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">________________________________=
_______________<br>
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:00:09 -0500
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To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>,  "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)" <slitkows@cisco.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, idr@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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 I support WG adoption and agree Ketan=E2=80=99s doc is good start.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:38 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sue,
>
> Ketan=E2=80=99s draft would be a great starting point.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:04, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> Hi Sue,
>
>
>
> I was referring to
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/
>
>
>
> Seeing the interest in the WG to progress BGP-LS advertisements in
> BGP-only networks, I would request for the WG to consider adoption of the
> above draft. I believe the problem statement of the draft is clear and
> acknowledge that it needs updates. So I will leave it to the chairs=E2=80=
=99
> judgement if it is in a good enough state for adoption =F0=9F=98=8A
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> *Sent:* 16 November 2020 11:40
> *To:* 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) =
<
> ginsberg@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; Stephane Litkowski
> (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <
> acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Jeff:
>
>
>
> I agree your BGP-LS only deployment in the MSD document were not well
> defined.
>
>
>
> Starting a new set of work to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is important.
> If this document start the process to refine how BGP-only works, this wil=
l
> help defined this usage.   I stand by the agreement that the BGP-LS that
> exposes the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU proposal can be adopted in LSR.  However,
> this discussion has confirmed that the BGP-LS support for BGP-only needs
> some BGP focus.
>
>
>
> If there are other drafts on this topic, it would be good to suggest this
> drafts on the list.   Ketan suggested he had one.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Sue
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 8:52 PM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
> *Cc:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski
> (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee); lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG revie=
ws,
> BGP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had been
> removed from the draft. It will require much better discussion to have it
> included.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> The points which Ketan has made regarding the use of MTU advertisements
> defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Indeed, the contents of the sub-TLV
> defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4 depend
> upon the TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3. These procedures
> are not currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.
>
>
>
> So, there are no existing IGP advertisements defined which can support th=
e
> goals of this draft.
>
>
>
> As Ketan has also indicated, there is no discussion in the draft of how a
> BGP only network (for example) could provide the information of interest.
>
>
>
> From my perspective, WG adoption of this draft in ANY WG is premature.
>
> This might be a useful functionality to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment =
we simply
> have an idea with no definition of how to implement/deploy it.
>
>
>
> So I therefore oppose WG adoption of this draft by IDR.
>
>
>
> Continuing the discussion is certainly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encou=
rage the
> current authors to investigate and propose relevant mechanisms in all the
> protocols of interest in some future version of the draft.
>
> At that point we could then have a far more meaningful WG adoption call.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Ketan Talaulikar
> (ketant)
> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM
> *To:* Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <
> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)' <
> slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee Lindem (acee)=
' <
> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Hi Authors,
>
>
>
> I believe this work is useful and should be taken up. It has value in
> providing the link MTU as part of the topology information via BGP-LS.
> However, as pointed out by others on this thread, the draft should remain
> scoped to just that =E2=80=93 i.e. providing link MTU information. The di=
scussion
> related to Path MTU and applicability to SR networks are best left outsid=
e
> the scope of this standards track draft.
>
>
>
> Hi Sue,
>
>
>
> I would support the points made by Acee for not taking up this draft in
> IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.
>
>
>
> Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there are also issues with ho=
w
> this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISIS Trill specification
> points to this TLV https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4 =E2=80=
=93 if
> you see, there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critica=
l
> is the ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value is
> determined. Please do not mix the following :
>
>
>
> The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce the MTU of a link as
>
>    specified in [RFC6325], Section 4.2.4.4
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4>.
>
>
>
> Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill procedures for testing
> MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.
>
>
>
> My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Trill may be re-used in
> normal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need to be specified.
> Copying the LSR WG so that I may be corrected if I am wrong here.
>
>
>
> Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft has zero text related
> to that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-LS advertisements in B=
GP
> only fabric need to be specified as a base. The
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/
> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the I=
DR
> WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider for
> adoption so we can cover the BGP-only networks.
>
>
>
> I would also like to offer support/help to the authors in adding the
> necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft where we could
> tackle both the IGPs and BGP-LS encoding and procedures together.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Susan Hares
> *Sent:* 13 November 2020 00:20
> *To:* 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Stephane Litkowski
> (slitkows)' <slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; idr@ietf.org; 'Acee
> Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Jeff and Authors of draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:
>
>
>
> I do believe the authors agreed to renaming the draft.
>
>
>
> Does the name:   draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
>
> the authors and interested IDR participants.
>
>
>
> As the end of 12 days of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears
>
> to have general consensus from the WG as a useful draft.
>
>
>
> I plan to allow 2 more days of comment, but at this point
>
> it appears the WG wishes to adopt this draft.
>
>
>
> Here=E2=80=99s my understanding of the best way forward:
>
>
>
> If LSR adopts a version of the draft, IDR will allow the
>
> LSR WG to be the main source as long as cross-working
>
> review occurs so the BGP-only function can be reviewed.
>
>
>
> Please continue to comment on the draft and
>
> the planned progression.
>
>
>
> Cheers,  Sue
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM
> *To:* Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); idr@ietf.org; Acee
> Lindem (acee)
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> +1 to everything Acee said
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <
> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:
>
> Speaking as an IDR WG member:
>
>
>
> The name of the draft is wrong =E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU =
and not a
> path MTU.
>
>
>
> Speaking as LSR Chair:
>
>
>
> We could this in LSR as there is currently no MTU advertisement in the
> LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Implementations already make use of this
> information as it is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of
> course, we=E2=80=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Susan Hares <
> shares@ndzh.com>
> *Date:* Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM
> *To:* "'Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)'" <
> slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IDR List <idr@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Stephane:
>
>
>
> My second message to this thread asked a few questions about the
> technology.
>
>
>
> This information can be more than IGP information.   If SR segments
> statically defined (static or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the
> endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this ca=
n
> just be BGP.
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adoption call going until we can be sure if:  1=
) it
> something LSR wants to standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only
> case.   It is clear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with
> stacked tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.
>
>
>
> The authors should be the ones to propose this in LSR.
>
>
>
> Cheers,  Sue
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org <idr-bounces@ietf.org>] *On
> Behalf Of* Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)
> *Sent:* Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM
> *To:* Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Hi Sue,
>
>
>
> > The purpose behind this mechanism is to reduce administrative work
> rather than to reduce the review on drafts.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t do OSPF extension no=
w and in the same
> draft, we leave a gap that will require a new draft for a very very small
> extension. Just adds process overhead for nothing=E2=80=A6
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
> *Sent:* lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10
> *To:* Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) <slitkows@cisco.com>; idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Stephane:
>
>
>
> I want to pick up on your email from two points:
>
>
>
> 1)  Why not do everything in LSR?
>
> <WG-chair hat>
>
> If the feature comes with interest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS
> data gathering), then the authors may select to do everything in LSR rath=
er
> than have 2 or 3 drafts to maintain.
>
>
>
> This is optional and the mechanism may not fit every draft.   The drafts
> may also start out adopted and vetted in LSR and IDR.    The purpose behi=
nd
> this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the
> review on drafts.
>
>
>
> </wg-chair hat off>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2) TRILL implementations of IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -
>
>
>
> If you are interested in whether this has been implemented in TRILL, you
> might want to check with Donald Eastlake.   My vague and foggy recollecti=
on
> is that had some implementations or came from pre-TRILL implementations.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers, Susan Hares
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [mailto:slitkows@cisco.com
> <slitkows@cisco.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM
> *To:* Susan Hares; idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu
> (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
>
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feeded by IGP LSDBs (of
> course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-IS has some MTU
> subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implemented), I don=
=E2=80=99t
> see anything for OSPF (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, so I may have miss=
ed it).
>
> Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with LSR WG before adopti=
ng ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of* Susan Hares
> *Sent:* lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04
> *To:* idr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020
> to 11/16/2020)
>
>
>
> This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for
>
> draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 11/16/2020).
>
>
>
> The authors should send in an IPR statement for this draft
>
> by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their decision.
>
>
>
> You can access the draft at:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/
>
>
>
> Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft
>
> I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to help you place
>
> this draft into the larger context of the SR additions to BGP-LS
>
> and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.txt.
>
>
>
> This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.  if you
>
> are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather than
>
> this specific addition, please make that clear in your
>
> comment in this discussion.
>
>
>
> The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.
>
> The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience.
>
> This draft has been delayed by process of having a
>
> new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed
>
> on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Sue
>
>
>
> Background
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are
>
> directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.  While existing MPLS technology
>
> (LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path MTU
>
> based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routing (SR)
>
> on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on
>
> MTU size per link.
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MTU
>
> information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for the tunnel type
>
> SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths.
>
> However, it lacks the information to create a reasonable
>
> Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distribute
>
> this information.
>
>
>
> The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size
>
> to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and
>
> draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this
>
> draft as one possible way to distribute the per link
>
> MTU.
>
>
>
> Questions for the authors might be:
>
> a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in
>
> the IGPs?  If so, is this needed in BGP-LS
>
>
>
> b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000008cea0305b439cc96
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0I support WG adoption and agree Ketan=E2=80=99s doc=
 is good start.</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:38 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Sue,<div><br></=
div><div>Ketan=E2=80=99s draft would be a great starting point.<br><br><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:04, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>=EF=BB=BF

</div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite"><div dir=3D"ltr">




<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Sue,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I was referring to
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-onl=
y-fabric/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/</=
a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Seeing the interest in the WG to progress BGP-LS ad=
vertisements in BGP-only networks, I would request for the WG to consider a=
doption of the above
 draft. I believe the problem statement of the draft is clear and acknowled=
ge that it needs updates. So I will leave it to the chairs=E2=80=99 judgeme=
nt if it is in a good enough state for adoption
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quo=
t;,sans-serif">=F0=9F=98=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Ketan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares=
@ndzh.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 16 November 2020 11:40<br>
<b>To:</b> &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Les Ginsberg (gin=
sberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg=
@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">slitkows@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.or=
g</a>; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_=
blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jeff:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I agree your BGP-LS on=
ly deployment in the MSD document were not well defined. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Starting a new set of =
work to define BGP-LS use in BGP-only is important.=C2=A0 If this document =
start the process to refine how BGP-only works, this
 will help defined this usage.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I stand by the agreement that th=
e BGP-LS that exposes the OSPF/ISIS Link MTU proposal can be adopted in LSR=
.=C2=A0 However, this discussion has confirmed that the BGP-LS support for =
BGP-only needs some BGP focus.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">If there are other dra=
fts on this topic, it would be good to suggest this drafts on the list.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Ketan suggested he had one.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Cheers, Sue
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Je=
ff Tantsura [<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">m=
ailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 8:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slit=
kows);
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Li=
ndem (acee); <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
To add to Les=E2=80=99s point of BGP only scenario, during MSD IESG reviews=
, BGP-LS only deployment was found not well characterized and had been remo=
ved from the draft. It will require much better
 discussion to have it included.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
On Nov 13, 2020, at 15:57, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gi=
nsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Taho=
ma&quot;,sans-serif">=EF=BB=BF</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The points which Ketan has made rega=
rding the use of MTU advertisements defined in RFC 7176 are very valid. Ind=
eed, the contents of the sub-TLV defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7176.html#section-2.4</a> dep=
end upon the TRILL specific MTU-probe/MTU-ack procedures defined in
<a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6325#section-4.4.3</a>. These pro=
cedures are not currently applicable to non-TRILL environments.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So, there are no existing IGP advert=
isements defined which can support the goals of this draft.</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">As Ketan has also indicated, there i=
s no discussion in the draft of how a BGP only network (for example) could =
provide the information of interest.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From my perspective, WG adoption of =
this draft in ANY WG is premature.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">This might be a useful functionality=
 to have =E2=80=93 but at the moment we simply have an idea with no definit=
ion of how to implement/deploy it.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">So I therefore oppose WG adoption of=
 this draft by IDR.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Continuing the discussion is certain=
ly useful =E2=80=93 and I would encourage the current authors to investigat=
e and propose relevant mechanisms in all the protocols of
 interest in some future version of the draft.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">At that point we could then have a f=
ar more meaningful WG adoption call.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 13, 2020 1:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;; &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
; &#39;Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.=
ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; &#39;Ac=
ee Lindem (acee)&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Authors,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I believe this work is useful and should be taken u=
p. It has value in providing the link MTU as part of the topology informati=
on via BGP-LS. However, as pointed out by others
 on this thread, the draft should remain scoped to just that =E2=80=93 i.e.=
 providing link MTU information. The discussion related to Path MTU and app=
licability to SR networks are best left outside the scope of this standards=
 track draft.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Sue,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I would support the points made by Acee for not tak=
ing up this draft in IDR WG and instead doing this in LSR.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Besides the missing coverage for OSPFv2/v3, there a=
re also issues with how this would work with ISIS. The reference to the ISI=
S Trill specification points to this TLV
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7176#section-2.4</a> =E2=80=93 if you see=
, there is more here than just the MTU value. What is more critical is the =
ISIS procedures (in non-Trill deployments) on how this value
 is determined. Please do not mix the following :</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The MTU sub-TLV is used to optionally announce=
 the MTU of a link as</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 specified in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.2.4.4" target=3D"_=
blank">[RFC6325], Section=C2=A04.2.4.4</a>.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Are the authors trying to specify that these Trill =
procedures for testing MTU need to be adopted for regular ISIS deployments.=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">My take is that while the ISIS TLV defined for Tril=
l may be re-used in normal ISIS deployments, its usage and procedures need =
to be specified. Copying the LSR WG so that I
 may be corrected if I am wrong here.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Coming to the point of BGP-only networks, the draft=
 has zero text related to that scenario. Moreover, the procedures for BGP-L=
S advertisements in BGP only fabric need to be
 specified as a base. The <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft=
-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ketant-idr-bgp-ls-bgp-only-fabric/</=
a> was my attempt to specify those procedures and it would be great if the =
IDR WG could review and provide feedback to this document and consider for =
adoption so we can cover the BGP-only
 networks.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">I would also like to offer support/help to the auth=
ors in adding the necessary OSPFv2/v3 support for the same in an LSR draft =
where we could tackle both the IGPs and BGP-LS
 encoding and procedures together.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Ketan</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 November 2020 00:20<br>
<b>To:</b> &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; &#39;Stephane Lit=
kowski (slitkows)&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>; &#39;Ac=
ee Lindem (acee)&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jeff and Authors of dr=
aft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I do believe the autho=
rs agreed to renaming the draft.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Does the name:=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 draft-xxx-idr-bgp-ls-link-mtu work for
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">the authors and intere=
sted IDR participants.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As the end of 12 days =
of the 14 day WG LC, this draft appears
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">to have general consen=
sus from the WG as a useful draft.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I plan to allow 2 more=
 days of comment, but at this point
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">it appears the WG wish=
es to adopt this draft.=C2=A0
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Here=E2=80=99s my unde=
rstanding of the best way forward:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">If LSR adopts a versio=
n of the draft, IDR will allow the
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">LSR WG to be the main =
source as long as cross-working
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">review occurs so the B=
GP-only function can be reviewed.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please continue to com=
ment on the draft and
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">the planned progressio=
n.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Cheers,=C2=A0 Sue
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Je=
ff Tantsura [<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">m=
ailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; Stephane Litkowski (slitkows); <a href=3D"mailto:id=
r@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
idr@ietf.org</a>; Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">+1 to everything Acee said<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageReplySection">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
On Nov 10, 2020, 1:01 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ac=
ee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc=
.ietf.org</a>&gt;, wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as an IDR WG member:<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The name of the draft is wrong =
=E2=80=93 the extension is for a Link MTU and not a path MTU.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as LSR Chair:<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We could this in LSR as there i=
s currently no MTU advertisement in the LSAs for OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. Impleme=
ntations already make use of this information as it
 is used in the OSPF DBD packets and for LSA packing. Of course, we=E2=80=
=99d require a more accurate draft name and title.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"> <span style=3D"color:black">
Idr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@n=
dzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 at 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> &quot;&#39;Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:slitkows=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">slitkow=
s=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;, IDR List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Stephane:</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">My second message to this thre=
ad asked a few questions about the technology.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">This information can be more t=
han IGP information.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If SR segments statically defined (static =
or direct interfaces) tunnels and pass the endpoints via BGP tunnel-encaps =
draft with SR Policy tunnel type, this can just
 be BGP.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">I=E2=80=99ll keep this WG adop=
tion call going until we can be sure if:=C2=A0 1) it something LSR wants to=
 standardize, and 2) whether there is a BGP only case.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It is cl=
ear to me that standardizing MTU for a SR segments with stacked
 tunnel segments passed by BGP was useful.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">The authors should be the ones=
 to propose this in LSR.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Cheers, =C2=A0Sue</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,sans-serif">Idr [<a href=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2020 4:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i=
dr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">Hi Sue,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; <span style=3D"color:#1f497d">The purpose behind =
this mechanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce the r=
eview on drafts.</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">That=E2=80=99s exactly my point. If we don=E2=80=99t d=
o OSPF extension now and in the same draft, we leave a gap that will requir=
e a new draft for a very very small extension. Just adds process overhead f=
or nothing=E2=80=A6<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Susan Hares &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shares@ndzh.com" target=3D"_blank">shares@ndzh.com</a>=
&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 9 novembre 2020 10:10<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slitkows@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">slitkows@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Stephane:</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">I want to pick up on your emai=
l from two points:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">1)=C2=A0 Why not do everything=
 in LSR?=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">&lt;WG-chair hat&gt;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">If the feature comes with inte=
rest in doing all 3 (ISIS, OSPF, and BGP-LS data gathering), then the autho=
rs may select to do everything in LSR rather than have 2 or 3 drafts to mai=
ntain.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">This is optional and the mecha=
nism may not fit every draft. =C2=A0=C2=A0The drafts may also start out ado=
pted and vetted in LSR and IDR.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0The purpose behind this m=
echanism is to reduce administrative work rather than to reduce
 the review on drafts.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">&lt;/wg-chair hat off&gt;</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">2) TRILL implementations of</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"> IS-IS has some MTU subTLV -=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">If you are interested in whether this has been impleme=
nted in TRILL, you might want to check with Donald Eastlake.=C2=A0=C2=A0 My=
 vague and foggy recollection is that had some implementations or came from=
 pre-TRILL implementations.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, Susan Hares<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&=
quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tah=
oma&quot;,sans-serif">Stephane Litkowski (slitkows) [<a href=3D"mailto:slit=
kows@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:slitkows@cisco.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Hares; <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i=
dr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11=
/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=E2=80=9Ca) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">the IGPs?=C2=A0 If so, is this needed in BGP-LS=E2=80=
=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This is a valid point, most of the time BGP-LS is feed=
ed by IGP LSDBs (of course there are other ways too). While I see that IS-I=
S has some MTU subTLV coming from TRILL RFC7176 (possibly never been implem=
ented), I don=E2=80=99t see anything for OSPF
 (I=E2=80=99m not an OSPF expert, so I may have missed it).<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Shouldn=E2=80=99t this be checked and validated with L=
SR WG before adopting ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Stephane<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> Idr &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr-bounces@ietf.org</=
a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of</b> Susan Hares<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 2 novembre 2020 06:04<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">idr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Idr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2=
020 to 11/16/2020)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"FR">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This begins a 2 week WG adoption call for<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu-04.txt (11/1 =E2=80=93 1=
1/16/2020).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The authors should send in an IPR statement for this d=
raft<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">by 11/5 so the WG can include the IPR status in their =
decision.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">You can access the draft at:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhu-=
idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Since this draft is reference by an existing IDR draft=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I=E2=80=99ve included a bit of background below to hel=
p you place =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">this draft into the larger context of the SR additions=
 to BGP-LS<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">and the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-19.tx=
t.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"L=
TR"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">This draft does continue BGP-LS additions.=
=C2=A0 if you</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">are opposed to any BGP-LS additions rather=
 than</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">this specific addition, please make that c=
lear in your</span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"right" dir=3D"RTL" style=3D"margin-right:36=
.0pt;text-align:left;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:embed">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" dir=3D"LTR">comment in this discussion.=C2=A0=C2=A0</s=
pan><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<span dir=3D"RTL"></span><span dir=3D"RTL"></span>
</span><span lang=3D"HE"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><spa=
n dir=3D"LTR"></span><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"HE=
" dir=3D"RTL"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The authors requested a WG adoption at IETF 108.=C2=A0=
</span><span lang=3D"AR-SA" dir=3D"RTL"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The IDR co-chairs thank the authors for their patience=
. =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This draft has been delayed by process of having a<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">new document shepherd (Sue Hares) come up to speed<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">on draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encapsulation.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, Sue<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Background<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Segment Routing technology creates SR tunnels that are=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">directly overlaid on MPLS or SRv6.=C2=A0 While existin=
g MPLS technology<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">(LDP and RSV-TE) provides mechanisms to negotiate path=
 MTU<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">based on individual link MTU limits, the Segment Routi=
ng (SR)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">on BGP-LS Link Attribute does not pass information on<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">MTU size per link.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt sends PATH MT=
U<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">information in the tunnel-encapsulation attribute for =
the tunnel type =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">SR-Policy that handles segment routing (SR) paths. =C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">However, it lacks the information to create a reasonab=
le<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Path size since the BGP-LS Link Attribute does distrib=
ute<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">this information.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The draft proposes adding a new sub-TLV for MTU size<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">to the BGP-LS Link Attribute TLV, and<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-ietf-idr-sr-policy-path-mtu-02.txt mentions this=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">draft as one possible way to distribute the per link<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">MTU. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Questions for the authors might be:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">a) Are there ways to pass IGP link MTUs in<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">the IGPs?=C2=A0 If so, is this needed in BGP-LS<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">b) What other mechanisms pass link MTU? =C2=A0=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
________________<br>
Idr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>


</div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><blockquote type=3D"c=
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Thread-Topic: [Idr] [Lsr] WG Adoption for draft-zhu-idr-bgp-ls-path-mtu (11/1/2020 to 11/16/2020)
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 04:59:17 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Hi Authors,

    The draft describes extensions to IGP for a node to distribute
capabilities of its links. The capability information about
all the links in a network may be used by another entity such as
a controller.

I have following comments:
1). In section 3, the capabilities of a link or a node is represented
by "Processing Action" (refer to Fig. 1 in the draft). Why do you include
"Max EH Len" in the "Processing Action"? It is not a capability.
2). The text describing the format of "Processing Action"
below seems not consistent with the format in Fig. 1.
"... processing action formed of
a tuple of a 1-octet Extension Header Options identifier and 8-bit
Processing Action Flag."
The above text occurs twice in the draft.
3). It seems that using word "signal" or "signaling" in the draft
is not good. It is better to use another word and rephrase the related text=
.

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.c=
om>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:19 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00

Hello WG,

Considering the Hop-by-Hop Options header has been used for IOAM [I-D.ietf-=
ippm-ioam-ipv6-options], Alternate Marking method [I-D.ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m=
ark], etc., but as specified in RFC8200, the Hop-by-Hop Options header is o=
nly examined and processed if it is explicitly configured. In this case, no=
des may be configured to ignore the Hop-by-Hop Options header, drop packets=
 containing a Hop-by-Hop Options header, or assign packets containing a Hop=
-by-Hop Options header to a slow processing path. Thus, the performance mea=
surement does not account for all links and nodes along a path. In addition=
, packets carrying a Hop-by-Hop Options header may be dropped, which gravel=
y deteriorates network performance.

Therefore, we propose a new draft about IGP extensions for signaling Hop-by=
-Hop Options header processing action at node and link granularity. Such ad=
vertisement is useful for entities (e.g., the centralized controller) to ga=
ther each router's processing action for achieving the computation of TE pa=
ths that be able to support a specific service encoded in the Hop-by-Hop Op=
tions header.

Please let us know your opinion. Questions and comments are very welcome.

Best regards,
Yali


-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:42 PM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>; wa=
ngyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt has been successful=
ly submitted by Yali Wang and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:           draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process
Revision:       00
Title:          IGP Extensions for Advertising Hop-by-Hop Options Header Pr=
ocessing Action
Document date:  2020-10-29
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          10
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Abstract:
   This document extends Node and Link attribute TLVs to Interior
   Gateway Protocols (IGP) to advertise the Hop-by-Hop Options header
   processing action and supported services (e.g.  IOAM Trace Option and
   Alternate Marking) at node and link granularity.  Such advertisements
   allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether
   the Hop-by-Hop Options header and specific services can be supported
   in a given network.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
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</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi Authors,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; The draft describes extensions to IGP for a node to distribut=
e
<div>capabilities of its links. The capability information about</div>
<div>all the links in a network may be used by another entity such as&nbsp;=
</div>
<div>a controller.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have following comments:</div>
<div>1). In section 3, the capabilities of a link or a node is represented =
</div>
<div>by &quot;Processing Action&quot; (refer to Fig. 1 in the draft). Why d=
o you include </div>
<div>&quot;Max EH Len&quot; in the &quot;Processing Action&quot;? It is not=
 a capability.</div>
<div>2). The text describing the format of &quot;Processing Action&quot;</d=
iv>
<div>below seems not consistent with the format in Fig. 1.</div>
<div>&quot;... processing action formed of</div>
<div>a tuple of a 1-octet Extension Header Options identifier and 8-bit</di=
v>
<div>Processing Action Flag.&quot;</div>
<div>The above text occurs twice in the draft. </div>
<div>3). It seems that using word &quot;signal&quot; or &quot;signaling&quo=
t; in the draft </div>
is not good. It is better to use another word and rephrase the related text=
.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Best Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Huaimo</div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@i=
etf.org&gt; on behalf of wangyali &lt;wangyali11@huawei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"=
>
<div class=3D"PlainText">Hello WG,<br>
<br>
Considering the Hop-by-Hop Options header has been used for IOAM [I-D.ietf-=
ippm-ioam-ipv6-options], Alternate Marking method [I-D.ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m=
ark], etc., but as specified in RFC8200, the Hop-by-Hop Options header is o=
nly examined and processed if it
 is explicitly configured. In this case, nodes may be configured to ignore =
the Hop-by-Hop Options header, drop packets containing a Hop-by-Hop Options=
 header, or assign packets containing a Hop-by-Hop Options header to a slow=
 processing path. Thus, the performance
 measurement does not account for all links and nodes along a path. In addi=
tion, packets carrying a Hop-by-Hop Options header may be dropped, which gr=
avely deteriorates network performance.<br>
<br>
Therefore, we propose a new draft about IGP extensions for signaling Hop-by=
-Hop Options header processing action at node and link granularity. Such ad=
vertisement is useful for entities (e.g., the centralized controller) to ga=
ther each router's processing action
 for achieving the computation of TE paths that be able to support a specif=
ic service encoded in the Hop-by-Hop Options header.
<br>
<br>
Please let us know your opinion. Questions and comments are very welcome.<b=
r>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Yali<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"=
>mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>]
<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:42 PM<br>
To: Tianran Zhou &lt;zhoutianran@huawei.com&gt;; Huzhibo &lt;huzhibo@huawei=
.com&gt;; wangyali &lt;wangyali11@huawei.com&gt;<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt has been successful=
ly submitted by Yali Wang and posted to the IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-wan=
g-lsr-hbh-process<br>
Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 00<br>
Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP Extensions=
 for Advertising Hop-by-Hop Options Header Processing Action<br>
Document date:&nbsp; 2020-10-29<br>
Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual Sub=
mission<br>
Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10<br>
URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a h=
ref=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F=
www.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt&amp;amp;dat=
a=3D04%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8=
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KB2I%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0">
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f.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt&amp;amp;data=3D04%=
7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fe=
e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFp=
bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%=
7C2000&amp;amp;sdata=3DtvJH5rnR%2BAj%2FxTTaxxbKJ6z%2F1OKAog3QdCCJnJkKB2I%3D=
&amp;amp;reserved=3D0</a><br>
Status:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.iet=
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.chen%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
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40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
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a=3DZmi3lDpE2aNulJxCiyU%2B9XQzv63EPeMo%2BAWVkatiDRE%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0=
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C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee=
8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb=
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ei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fed=
c%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi=
LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;amp;sdata=3Dm9Z1u=
y3W4tT73SQod1DpcT%2BU4malMI25xQtNHTSwkdY%3D&amp;amp;reserved=3D0">
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etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00&amp;amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chua=
imo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee8ff2a3b24=
0189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8ey=
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ved=3D0</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; This document extends Node and Link attribute TLVs to Interior=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Gateway Protocols (IGP) to advertise the Hop-by-Hop Options he=
ader<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; processing action and supported services (e.g.&nbsp; IOAM Trac=
e Option and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Alternate Marking) at node and link granularity.&nbsp; Such ad=
vertisements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine wh=
ether<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; the Hop-by-Hop Options header and specific services can be sup=
ported<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; in a given network.<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
Lsr@ietf.org<br>
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9c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI=
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;am=
p;sdata=3DFae4vhjYo1fN5aIkVTTYMlANFCNyH%2FvxkyznvdjL%2B6U%3D&amp;amp;reserv=
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en%40futurewei.com%7C1b6010e28c9345df423708d87c0d5f8f%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637395744183598793%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi=
MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;amp;s=
data=3DFae4vhjYo1fN5aIkVTTYMlANFCNyH%2FvxkyznvdjL%2B6U%3D&amp;amp;reserved=
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</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_MN2PR13MB40871F3CD1BC0BE44FD47398F2E20MN2PR13MB4087namp_--


From nobody Mon Nov 16 22:07:58 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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Hi, Acee:

As discussed on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated the =
draft to reflect the comments from the LSR community.
Please see whether you have still other concerns or not and if there is =
no further comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption call =
then?
Thanks you and Peter for your intense discussions for this draft.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:44 AM
> To: Zhibo Hu <huzhibo@huawei.com>; Aijun Wang
> <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>; Gyan S. Mishra <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>;
> Gyan Mishra <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>=20
> Name:		draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute
> Revision:	06
> Title:		Passive Interface Attribute
> Document date:	2020-11-15
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		10
> URL:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06.t
> xt
> Status:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te/
> Htmlized:
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-at=
tribut
> e
> Htmlized:
> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06=

> Diff:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06
>=20
> Abstract:
>    This document describes the mechanism that can be used to
>    differentiate the passive interfaces from the normal interfaces
>    within ISIS or OSPF domain.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
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> The IETF Secretariat
>=20



From nobody Mon Nov 16 22:21:06 2020
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Hi, Jeff and Robert:

=20

Please see the response inlines.

=20

From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>=20
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 6:36 PM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee =
Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

+1 with Robert.

=20

So you expect the following RIB state after PUA has been advertised:

10.0.0.1 - drop

10/24 - forward=20

[WAJ] Yes, this is the expected result.

=20

Unless there=E2=80=99s a recursively discarded next-hop (ala RTBH )  - =
how do you envision it?

[WAJ] This is the action that the node receives the PUA should do. =
Existing router may not support it, so we define the PUA capabilities =
announcement in section-6.3 of this draft =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-=
annoucement-04#section-6.3> =20

Regards,

Jeff





On Nov 16, 2020, at 00:25, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net =
<mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something =
inherently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that =
today's data plane lookup does not really support "if does not match" =
checks.

[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D =
check, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not match=E2=80=9D check.  When the router =
receives the PUA information, it will install one black hole route for a =
short time.

=20

So your idea is that you install route for unreachable prefix to =
/dev/null ?=20

[WAJ] Yes.

=20

And how would that help connectivity restoration ?=20

[WAJ] This action will trigger the path protection procedures, which =
will divert the traffic to other backup path.

=20

Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to =
locally bypass the failed destination.=20

[WAJ] No, It will trigger the local protection instead, not prevent.

=20

Bottom line is that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO =
described actions upon reception of PUA are questionable at best.=20

=20

Cheers,
R.


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Jeff and Robert:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>P=
lease see the response inlines.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
November 16, 2020 6:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk =
&lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; lsr &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;; Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use =
Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>+1 with Robert.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So you expect the following RIB state after PUA has been =
advertised:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>10.0.0.1 - drop<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>10/24 - forward&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] Yes, this is the expected result.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:21.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Unless there=E2=80=99s a recursively discarded next-hop =
(ala RTBH ) &nbsp;- how do you envision it?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] This is the action that the node receives the PUA should do. =
Existing router may not support it, so we define the PUA capabilities =
announcement in <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unrea=
chable-annoucement-04#section-6.3">section-6.3 of this draft</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:21.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>On =
Nov 16, 2020, at 00:25, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>=EF=BB=BF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4=
2.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:3.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>I was not bringing RIFT's negative =
routies example as something inherently negative. I was just pointing it =
out to illustrate that today's data plane lookup does not really support =
&quot;if does not match&quot; checks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:4=
2.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:3.5gd'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the </span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E2=
=80=9C<span lang=3DEN-US>match</span>=E2=80=9D<span lang=3DEN-US> check, =
not </span>=E2=80=9C<span lang=3DEN-US>does not =
match</span>=E2=80=9D<span lang=3DEN-US> check.&nbsp; When the router =
receives the PUA information, it will install one black hole route for a =
short time.</span></span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So your idea is that you install route for unreachable =
prefix to /dev/null ?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] Yes.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>And how would that help connectivity restoration =
?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] This action will trigger the path protection procedures, which will =
divert the traffic to other backup path.</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local =
protection to locally bypass the failed =
destination.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[=
WAJ] No, It will trigger the local protection instead, not =
prevent.</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Bottom line is that I agree with one problem statement. =
However IMHO described actions upon reception of PUA are questionable at =
best.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers,<br>R.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><=
/blockquote></div></div></body></html>
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Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
References: <CAOj+MMH7zRaXNJTRC0ua7ohasUpo0MmeqgzcU9BdpcD7wD+Yrg@mail.gmail.com> <D477846E-1086-46A8-B2D6-E552623E2643@gmail.com> <016b01d6bca9$cf908c20$6eb1a460$@tsinghua.org.cn>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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>> And how would that help connectivity restoration ?=20
>> [WAJ] This action will trigger the path protection procedures, which =
will divert the traffic to other backup path.


This seems to be making some major assumptions about how path protection =
features operate. Those assumptions need to be
very explicitly called out.

The path protection features that I=E2=80=99m familiar with are =
triggered by topological changes along the existing operable path. A PUA
does not provide that.  Rather, it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary =
signal saying =E2=80=99this broke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about =
the failure, it=E2=80=99s difficult to=20
understand exactly what path protection should make of this.  If a =
prefix is unreachable, the obvious implication is that the associated =
link has
failed.  Path protection in a remote area is highly unlikely to have the =
topological details necessary to find an alternate path to that prefix.

Tony


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><div class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt 21pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" =
class=3D""><span lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">And how would that help =
connectivity restoration ?&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;" class=3D""><b class=3D""><i class=3D""><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF=
; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=3D"">[WAJ] This action will trigger =
the path protection procedures, which will divert the traffic to other =
backup path.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: =E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" =
class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>This seems to be making some major assumptions =
about how path protection features operate. Those assumptions need to =
be</div><div>very explicitly called out.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>The path protection features that I=E2=80=99m =
familiar with are triggered by topological changes along the existing =
operable path. A PUA</div><div>does not provide that. &nbsp;Rather, =
it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary signal saying =E2=80=99this =
broke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about the failure, it=E2=80=99s =
difficult to&nbsp;</div><div>understand exactly what path protection =
should make of this. &nbsp;If a prefix is unreachable, the obvious =
implication is that the associated link has</div><div>failed. &nbsp;Path =
protection in a remote area is highly unlikely to have the topological =
details necessary to find an alternate path to that =
prefix.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Tony</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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In-Reply-To: <4CCB3F3C-8537-4072-8763-D4B3C557EBD9@tony.li>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 02:51:35 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV07Qa-pYON_ajAUsykidnNV8dqTDWWLaJSTiVqLA=ED0w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/IuR6KjlSUHfdnSSOHR_Ax_4kkaA>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Tony

I agree.  We have to be careful not to confuse path protection mentioned to
RSVP FRR protection based on TEDs or LFA style local protection.  We will
redo the verbiage carefully to not call use pre-existing terminology term
that will add confusion.

Thanks for the feedback!!

Thanks

Gyan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 1:31 AM <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

>
> And how would that help connectivity restoration ?
> *[WAJ] This action will trigger the path protection procedures, which wil=
l
> divert the traffic to other backup path.*
>
>
>
> This seems to be making some major assumptions about how path protection
> features operate. Those assumptions need to be
> very explicitly called out.
>
> The path protection features that I=E2=80=99m familiar with are triggered=
 by
> topological changes along the existing operable path. A PUA
> does not provide that.  Rather, it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary sig=
nal
> saying =E2=80=99this broke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about the fai=
lure, it=E2=80=99s
> difficult to
> understand exactly what path protection should make of this.  If a prefix
> is unreachable, the obvious implication is that the associated link has
> failed.  Path protection in a remote area is highly unlikely to have the
> topological details necessary to find an alternate path to that prefix.
>
> Tony
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Tony<div><br></div><div>I agree.=C2=A0 We have to be caref=
ul not to confuse path protection mentioned to RSVP FRR protection based on=
 TEDs or LFA style local protection.=C2=A0 We will redo the verbiage carefu=
lly to not call use pre-existing terminology term that will add confusion.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the feedback!!</div><div><br></div><div=
>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Gyan</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 1:31 AM =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflo=
w-wrap: break-word;"><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-vari=
ant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text=
-decoration:none"><div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5p=
t" type=3D"cite"><div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt =
21pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"><span lang=3D"EN-US">An=
d how would that help connectivity restoration ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span>=
</div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 21pt;font-size:12pt;font-family=
:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;f=
ont-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] This action will =
trigger the path protection procedures, which will divert the traffic to ot=
her backup path.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote=
><br></div><div><br></div><div>This seems to be making some major assumptio=
ns about how path protection features operate. Those assumptions need to be=
</div><div>very explicitly called out.</div><div><br></div><div>The path pr=
otection features that I=E2=80=99m familiar with are triggered by topologic=
al changes along the existing operable path. A PUA</div><div>does not provi=
de that.=C2=A0 Rather, it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary signal saying =
=E2=80=99this broke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about the failure, it=
=E2=80=99s difficult to=C2=A0</div><div>understand exactly what path protec=
tion should make of this.=C2=A0 If a prefix is unreachable, the obvious imp=
lication is that the associated link has</div><div>failed.=C2=A0 Path prote=
ction in a remote area is highly unlikely to have the topological details n=
ecessary to find an alternate path to that prefix.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Tony</div><div><br></div></div>___________________________________________=
____<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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In-Reply-To: <ACA61115-35A0-46A5-A88D-38ED85BF80B3@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 02:54:28 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV2MSAdEbk5ms=X3YHzes1aC0vjxySji+bswHQ0VgBtM5w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/lJwMAlpKfDcN_GKFMFTvv41Hmvg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Thanks Acee for the feedback.

We will add more detail to the use cases.

Gyan

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 3:45 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> When the PUA use cases were presented today in the LSR meeting, I made th=
e
> comment that the RIB interactions for each use case would be different an=
d
> needed to be specified.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Date: *Monday, November 16, 2020 at 3:25 AM
> *To: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> *Cc: *Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Acee
> Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
> I was not bringing RIFT's negative routies example as something inherentl=
y
> negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today's data plan=
e
> lookup does not really support "if does not match" checks.
>
> *[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the =E2=80=9Cmatch=E2=80=9D che=
ck, not =E2=80=9Cdoes not
> match=E2=80=9D check.  When the router receives the PUA information, it w=
ill
> install one black hole route for a short time.*
>
>
>
> So your idea is that you install route for unreachable prefix to /dev/nul=
l
> ?
>
>
>
> And how would that help connectivity restoration ?
>
>
>
> Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to
> locally bypass the failed destination.
>
>
>
> Bottom line is that I agree with one problem statement. However IMHO
> described actions upon reception of PUA are questionable at best.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> R.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000009edc9405b448e58d
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Acee for the feedback.<div><br></div><div>We will a=
dd more detail to the use cases.</div><div><br></div><div>Gyan</div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon,=
 Nov 16, 2020 at 3:45 AM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40=
cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-2919677260217372185WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When the PUA use cases were presented today in the L=
SR meeting, I made the comment that the RIB interactions for each use case =
would be different and needed to be specified. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&g=
t;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 16, 2020 at 3:25 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" targ=
et=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
sr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt">
<span>I was not bringing RIFT&#39;s negative routies example as something i=
nherently negative. I was just pointing it out to illustrate that today&#39=
;s data plane lookup does not really support &quot;if does not match&quot; =
checks.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:DengXian;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">[WAJ] In data plane, the device do still the
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E2=80=9C</span>match<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E2=80=9D</s=
pan> check, not <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">
=E2=80=9C</span>does not match<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E2=80=9D</span> check.=
=C2=A0 When the router receives the PUA information, it will install one bl=
ack hole route for a short time.</span></i></b><span><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">So your idea is that you=
 install route for unreachable prefix to /dev/null ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">And how would that help =
connectivity restoration ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Moreover it seems that i=
t will just also prevent any local protection to locally bypass the failed =
destination.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Bottom line is that I ag=
ree with one problem statement. However IMHO described actions upon recepti=
on of PUA are questionable at best.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Cheers,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 09:05:59 +0100
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> Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to
> locally bypass the failed destination.
>
> *[WAJ] No, It will trigger the local protection instead, not prevent.*
>
>
You missed my point.

I am talking about *local* protection in a sense of adjacent node(s) to the
PE/ASBR which failed. *Local* to the failure.

You are talking about *local* protection on ingress to the network. Let's
focus on this:

Q1 - You are installing a /dev/null route in a router. That means that any
packet sent to this destination will be dropped. How is this of any
protection ?

Q2 - What you may be actually trying to say is that by installing such PUA
into RIB you will via RIB let know those clients (ex: BGP) which track this
route that it is gone and that their possibly best path is no longer valid.
Sure that is one way to share such information between IGP and BGP. But
this needs to be described in the document that this is your intention.
Otherwise when you say you are installing a drop route in RIB & FIB I am
not sure how helpful that is (well other then transiently relaxing the
network to drop some traffic few router hops away).

Thx,
R.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail-m_-1758432917784334606WordSection1"><div><blockquote style=3D"ma=
rgin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Moreover it seems that it w=
ill just also prevent any local protection to locally bypass the failed des=
tination.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:21pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] No, It will trigger the=
 local protection instead, not prevent.</span></i></b></p></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You =
missed my point.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I am talking about *local* =
protection in a sense of adjacent node(s) to the PE/ASBR which failed. *Loc=
al* to the failure.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You are talking about *l=
ocal* protection on ingress to the network. Let&#39;s focus on this:</div><=
div><br></div><div>Q1 - You are installing a /dev/null route in a router. T=
hat means that any packet sent to this destination will be dropped. How is =
this=C2=A0of any protection ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Q2 - What you =
may be actually trying to say is that by installing such PUA into RIB you w=
ill via RIB let know those clients (ex: BGP) which track this route that it=
 is gone and that their possibly best path is no longer valid. Sure that is=
 one way to share such information=C2=A0between IGP and BGP. But this needs=
 to be described in the=C2=A0document that this is your intention. Otherwis=
e when you say you are installing a drop route in RIB &amp; FIB I am not su=
re how helpful that is (well other then transiently relaxing the network to=
 drop some traffic few router hops away).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
x,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div>

--000000000000a61a4805b448f7d5--


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 03:20:47 -0500
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:06 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

>
> Moreover it seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to
>> locally bypass the failed destination.
>>
>> *[WAJ] No, It will trigger the local protection instead, not prevent.*
>>
>>
> You missed my point.
>
> I am talking about *local* protection in a sense of adjacent node(s) to
> the PE/ASBR which failed. *Local* to the failure.
>
> You are talking about *local* protection on ingress to the network. Let's
> focus on this:
>
> Q1 - You are installing a /dev/null route in a router. That means that any
> packet sent to this destination will be dropped. How is this of any
> protection ?
>
> Q2 - What you may be actually trying to say is that by installing such PUA
> into RIB you will via RIB let know those clients (ex: BGP) which track this
> route that it is gone and that their possibly best path is no longer valid.
> Sure that is one way to share such information between IGP and BGP. But
> this needs to be described in the document that this is your intention.
> Otherwise when you say you are installing a drop route in RIB & FIB I am
> not sure how helpful that is (well other then transiently relaxing the
> network to drop some traffic few router hops away).
>

   Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the data
plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.

   However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by
sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.

    With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and
LFA & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks
the convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence
with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
plane will converge with PUA.

    The  one use case I had mentioned to you in the past a while back is
related to BGP PIC core convergence which I mentioned during the
presentation as you brought up BGP next hop convergence as a use case on
the ML.  So in cases where you run BGP PIC edge and have the pre programmed
backup path best-external add-paths advertised backup paths you are set,
however with BGP PIC core prefix independent convergence with the H-FIB
next hop rib convergence - with next-hop-self rewrite to the loopback, the
loopback never goes down so that does impact iBGP path PIC core
convergence.  So a workaround is to not do next hop self and so when link
goes down its detected and that fixes the issue.  Downside is you now have
a massive LFIB FEC binding database if you have tons of customer edges.  So
I think PUA could help for this but I was trying to connect the dots and I
think there is something missing but maybe we can figure out how PUA can be
leveraged to fix the PIC Core convergence.  I am assuming that is what you
meant on the ML with next hop tracking convergence would be the obvious use
case for PUA.  So the tricky part here is you you can send a PUA when your
PE-CE link goes down and now your H-FIB IGP forwarding plane would now
converge immediately on the alternate PUA path, however you still have
next-hop-self rewrite happening to the loopback which is still Up.  So even
though PUA fixed the Core IGP detection of the PE-CE link failure, it did
not fix the next hop self rewrite to the loopback which is always Up.  I
guess there would be still an improvement with data plane convergence for
the PE-CE with the PUA being sent to converge the BGP next hop when "next
hop self" is not used.  It would be nice if there was some way to make PUA
fix the next-hop-self rewrite to loopback to improve PIC core convergence.
You would need a flag to tie the loopback to the PE-CE connected interfaces
state to be tracked.  I believe you wrote a draft way back that fixes that
issue but was never adopted I believe.  I would have to dig up on ML to
find it.

>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


-- 

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:06 AM Rober=
t Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><div><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Moreover it=
 seems that it will just also prevent any local protection to locally bypas=
s the failed destination.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] No, It =
will trigger the local protection instead, not prevent.</span></i></b></p><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>You missed my point.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I am talkin=
g about *local* protection in a sense of adjacent node(s) to the PE/ASBR wh=
ich failed. *Local* to the failure.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You are =
talking about *local* protection on ingress to the network. Let&#39;s focus=
 on this:</div><div><br></div><div>Q1 - You are installing a /dev/null rout=
e in a router. That means that any packet sent to this destination will be =
dropped. How is this=C2=A0of any protection ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Q2 - What you may be actually trying to say is that by installing such PU=
A into RIB you will via RIB let know those clients (ex: BGP) which track th=
is route that it is gone and that their possibly best path is no longer val=
id. Sure that is one way to share such information=C2=A0between IGP and BGP=
. But this needs to be described in the=C2=A0document that this is your int=
ention. Otherwise when you say you are installing a drop route in RIB &amp;=
 FIB I am not sure how helpful that is (well other then transiently relaxin=
g the network to drop some traffic few router hops away).=C2=A0</div></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe the o=
riginal intention was related to having the data plane converge quickly whe=
n summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active ABR t=
o the Backup ABR.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Howe=
ver PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single are=
a when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending P=
UA for the backup path so the active path.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on I=
SIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protec=
tion - with those tweaks the convergence is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So =
for Intra area convergence with all the optimizations mentioned I am not su=
re how much faster the data plane will converge with PUA.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The=C2=A0 one use case I had mentioned to you in the =
past a while back is related to BGP PIC core convergence which I mentioned =
during the presentation as you brought up BGP next hop convergence as a use=
 case on the ML.=C2=A0 So in cases where you run BGP PIC edge and have the =
pre programmed backup path best-external add-paths advertised backup paths =
you are set, however with BGP PIC core prefix independent convergence with =
the H-FIB next hop rib convergence - with next-hop-self rewrite to the loop=
back, the loopback never goes down so that does impact iBGP path PIC core c=
onvergence.=C2=A0 So a workaround is to not do next hop self and so when li=
nk goes down its detected and that fixes the issue.=C2=A0 Downside is you n=
ow have a massive LFIB FEC binding database if you have tons of customer ed=
ges.=C2=A0 So I think PUA could help for this but I was trying to connect t=
he dots and I think there is something missing but maybe we can figure out =
how PUA can be leveraged to fix the PIC Core convergence.=C2=A0 I am assumi=
ng that is what you meant on the ML with next hop tracking convergence woul=
d be the obvious use case for PUA.=C2=A0 So the tricky part here is you you=
 can send a PUA when your PE-CE link goes down and now your H-FIB IGP forwa=
rding plane would now converge immediately on the alternate PUA path, howev=
er you still have next-hop-self rewrite happening to the loopback which is =
still Up.=C2=A0 So even though PUA fixed the Core IGP detection of the PE-C=
E link failure, it did not fix the next hop self rewrite to the loopback wh=
ich is always Up.=C2=A0 I guess there would be still an improvement with da=
ta plane convergence for the PE-CE with the PUA being sent to converge the =
BGP next hop when &quot;next hop self&quot; is not used.=C2=A0 It would be =
nice if there was some way to make PUA fix the next-hop-self rewrite to loo=
pback to improve PIC core convergence.=C2=A0 You would need a flag to tie t=
he loopback to the PE-CE connected interfaces state to be tracked.=C2=A0 I =
believe you wrote a draft way back that fixes that issue but was never adop=
ted I believe.=C2=A0 I would have to dig up on ML to find it.<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000b927f005b4494336--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 09:36:24 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMGnRkYrTcC45QEy+F5HNCoFn75r=1gn-+OT89Q53D_pYA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/kZDuFeZSXt_uPknlCHfh0KzkZEo>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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   Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the data
> plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>

I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that both
ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practical use
of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your
ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever
to work around such a design.

Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.

   However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by
> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>

If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are we
missing in the first place ?



> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &
> RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the
> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
> plane will converge with PUA.
>

Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
generally work well intra-area without PUAs.

Thx,
R.

--00000000000072151a05b44964eb
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robe=
rt, I believe the original intention was related to having the data plane c=
onverge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges fr=
om the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is f=
ast such that both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there i=
s no practical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which A=
BR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is=
 a worst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div=
><div>Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviou=
r.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However P=
UA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area whe=
n a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA fo=
r the backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>If there is no area segmentation then there is no su=
mmaries. So what are we missing in the first place ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></=
div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>With the IGP tuned with BF=
D fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LF=
A for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into =
sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence with all the optimizations =
mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane will converge with P=
UA.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Even without any of t=
he above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-a=
rea without PUAs.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br><=
/div><div><br></div></div></div>

--00000000000072151a05b44964eb--


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 04:01:46 -0500
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

>
>
>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the data
>> plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>
>
> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practical
> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If
> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch
> ever to work around such a design.
>

   Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track
the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is
still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use case
is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so
one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the
component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summary
as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So
this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the
other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your
traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now
traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.

>
> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>

     Gyan> will do

>
>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by
>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>
>
> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
> we missing in the first place ?
>

    Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area
where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.

>
>
>
>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA
>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the
>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>
>
> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>

    Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if
I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit
of PUA.

>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=
</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe the original intention was relate=
d to having the data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and =
flip so traffic converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0</div=
></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do not buy this use case. F=
looding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same info.=
 As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any routin=
g or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with =
min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a desig=
n.=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use c=
ase is the ability to track the component prefixes and in case where compon=
ent is down and traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 Th=
e other more important use case is when links are down within the area and =
the area is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however o=
ther ABR is missing half the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR wil=
l by default advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the=
 summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is severely impacting =
as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two =
ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA the problem is f=
ixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has t=
he component prefixes.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><br></div><div>Ple=
ase present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; will do=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><d=
iv><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA can be used i=
n the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a link or node=
 fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for the backup pat=
h so the active path.=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what=
 are we missing in the first place ?=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Sorry I =
am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a link or =
node goes down to improve data plane convergence.</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></=
div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>With the IG=
P tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA fo=
r MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergenc=
e is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence with all the=
 optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane will =
converge with PUA.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Even w=
ithout any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will generally wo=
rk well intra-area without PUAs.=C2=A0</div><div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; A=
greed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fi=
gure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.</di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Hi Huaimo,

Thanks a lot for your review and comments. Please find my responses in line=
 [Yali].

Best regards,
Yali

From: Huaimo Chen [mailto:huaimo.chen@futurewei.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:59 PM
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00

Hi Authors,

    The draft describes extensions to IGP for a node to distribute
capabilities of its links. The capability information about
all the links in a network may be used by another entity such as
a controller.

I have following comments:
1). In section 3, the capabilities of a link or a node is represented
by "Processing Action" (refer to Fig. 1 in the draft). Why do you include
"Max EH Len" in the "Processing Action"? It is not a capability.
[Yali] Since the length of IPv6 Extensions Header exceeds the maximum limit=
 the node is capable to process, the packets carried extensions header shou=
ld be discarded. Hence, "Max EH Len" defined in this draft is used to indic=
ate the maximum length of extension header supported by the Node or Link. S=
o I think it is also a capability.
What's your thoughts?

2). The text describing the format of "Processing Action"
below seems not consistent with the format in Fig. 1.
"... processing action formed of
a tuple of a 1-octet Extension Header Options identifier and 8-bit
Processing Action Flag."
The above text occurs twice in the draft.
[Yali] I'll fix this in the next version. It should be "...processing actio=
n formed of a tuple of a 8-bit Processing Action Flag, a 16-bit Services Fl=
ag, and a one-octet Maximum Extensions Header Length."

3). It seems that using word "signal" or "signaling" in the draft
is not good. It is better to use another word and rephrase the related text=
.
[Yali] I will replace word "signal" by "advertise" and also revise the rela=
ted text. Is it correct?

Best Regards,
Huaimo
________________________________
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of =
wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com<mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:19 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> <lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
Subject: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00

Hello WG,

Considering the Hop-by-Hop Options header has been used for IOAM [I-D.ietf-=
ippm-ioam-ipv6-options], Alternate Marking method [I-D.ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m=
ark], etc., but as specified in RFC8200, the Hop-by-Hop Options header is o=
nly examined and processed if it is explicitly configured. In this case, no=
des may be configured to ignore the Hop-by-Hop Options header, drop packets=
 containing a Hop-by-Hop Options header, or assign packets containing a Hop=
-by-Hop Options header to a slow processing path. Thus, the performance mea=
surement does not account for all links and nodes along a path. In addition=
, packets carrying a Hop-by-Hop Options header may be dropped, which gravel=
y deteriorates network performance.

Therefore, we propose a new draft about IGP extensions for signaling Hop-by=
-Hop Options header processing action at node and link granularity. Such ad=
vertisement is useful for entities (e.g., the centralized controller) to ga=
ther each router's processing action for achieving the computation of TE pa=
ths that be able to support a specific service encoded in the Hop-by-Hop Op=
tions header.

Please let us know your opinion. Questions and comments are very welcome.

Best regards,
Yali


-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> [mailto:int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:42 PM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>>; H=
uzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com<mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com>>; wangyali <wangyali1=
1@huawei.com<mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com>>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt has been successful=
ly submitted by Yali Wang and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:           draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process
Revision:       00
Title:          IGP Extensions for Advertising Hop-by-Hop Options Header Pr=
ocessing Action
Document date:  2020-10-29
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          10
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Abstract:
   This document extends Node and Link attribute TLVs to Interior
   Gateway Protocols (IGP) to advertise the Hop-by-Hop Options header
   processing action and supported services (e.g.  IOAM Trace Option and
   Alternate Marking) at node and link granularity.  Such advertisements
   allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether
   the Hop-by-Hop Options header and specific services can be supported
   in a given network.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Huaimo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks a lot for your review and comm=
ents. Please find my responses in line [Yali].<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yali<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Huaimo Chen [mailto:huaimo.che=
n@futurewei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> wangyali &lt;wangyali11@huawei.com&gt;; lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Hi Authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">&nbsp; &nbsp; The draft describes extensions to IGP for =
a node to distribute
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">capabilities of its links. The capability information ab=
out<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">all the links in a network may be used by another entity=
 such as&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">a controller.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">I have following comments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">1). In section 3, the capabilities of a link or a node i=
s represented
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">by &quot;Processing Action&quot; (refer to Fig. 1 in the=
 draft). Why do you include
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">&quot;Max EH Len&quot; in the &quot;Processing Action&qu=
ot;? It is not a capability.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Yali] Since the length of IPv6 Exten=
sions Header exceeds the maximum limit the node is capable to process, the =
packets carried extensions header should be discarded.
 Hence, &#8220;Max EH Len&#8221; defined in this draft is used to indicate =
the maximum length of extension header supported by the Node or Link. So I =
think it is also a capability.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What&#8217;s your thoughts?<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">2). The text describing the format of &quot;Processing A=
ction&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">below seems not consistent with the format in Fig. 1.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">&quot;... processing action formed of<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">a tuple of a 1-octet Extension Header Options identifier=
 and 8-bit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Processing Action Flag.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">The above text occurs twice in the draft.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Yali] I&#8217;ll fix this in the nex=
t version. It should be &#8220;&#8230;processing action formed of a tuple o=
f a 8-bit Processing Action Flag, a 16-bit Services Flag, and a
 one-octet Maximum Extensions Header Length.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">3). It seems that using word &quot;signal&quot; or &quot=
;signaling&quot; in the draft
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">is not good. It is better to use another word and rephra=
se the related text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">[Yali] I will replace word &#8220;sig=
nal&#8221; by &#8220;advertise&#8221; and also revise the related text. Is =
it correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-=
serif;color:black">Huaimo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"98%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"> Lsr &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
 on behalf of wangyali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com">wangyal=
i11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] New Version for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hello WG,<br>
<br>
Considering the Hop-by-Hop Options header has been used for IOAM [I-D.ietf-=
ippm-ioam-ipv6-options], Alternate Marking method [I-D.ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-m=
ark], etc., but as specified in RFC8200, the Hop-by-Hop Options header is o=
nly examined and processed if it
 is explicitly configured. In this case, nodes may be configured to ignore =
the Hop-by-Hop Options header, drop packets containing a Hop-by-Hop Options=
 header, or assign packets containing a Hop-by-Hop Options header to a slow=
 processing path. Thus, the performance
 measurement does not account for all links and nodes along a path. In addi=
tion, packets carrying a Hop-by-Hop Options header may be dropped, which gr=
avely deteriorates network performance.<br>
<br>
Therefore, we propose a new draft about IGP extensions for signaling Hop-by=
-Hop Options header processing action at node and link granularity. Such ad=
vertisement is useful for entities (e.g., the centralized controller) to ga=
ther each router's processing action
 for achieving the computation of TE paths that be able to support a specif=
ic service encoded in the Hop-by-Hop Options header.
<br>
<br>
Please let us know your opinion. Questions and comments are very welcome.<b=
r>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Yali<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/a> [<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">mailto:internet-drafts@iet=
f.org</a>]
<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:42 PM<br>
To: Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com">zhoutianran@=
huawei.com</a>&gt;; Huzhibo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com">huzhi=
bo@huawei.com</a>&gt;; wangyali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com=
">wangyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00.txt has been successful=
ly submitted by Yali Wang and posted to the IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-wan=
g-lsr-hbh-process<br>
Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 00<br>
Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IGP Extensions=
 for Advertising Hop-by-Hop Options Header Processing Action<br>
Document date:&nbsp; 2020-10-29<br>
Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual Sub=
mission<br>
Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10<br>
URL:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a h=
ref=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F=
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<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; This document extends Node and Link attribute TLVs to Interior=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Gateway Protocols (IGP) to advertise the Hop-by-Hop Options he=
ader<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; processing action and supported services (e.g.&nbsp; IOAM Trac=
e Option and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Alternate Marking) at node and link granularity.&nbsp; Such ad=
vertisements<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine wh=
ether<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; the Hop-by-Hop Options header and specific services can be sup=
ported<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; in a given network.<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Discussion on draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Subject: [Lsr] Discussion on draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 09:28:44 -0500
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/WUK0NCTcqYO8cGRDYjSsEMaW148>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:01 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traf=
fic
>>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>>
>>
>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practi=
cal
>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. I=
f
>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pa=
tch
>> ever to work around such a design.
>>
>
>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to trac=
k
> the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is
> still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use cas=
e
> is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so
> one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the
> component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summa=
ry
> as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So
> this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the
> other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your
> traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and no=
w
> traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.
>
>>
>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>>
>
>      Gyan> will do
>
>>
>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickl=
y by
>>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>>
>>
>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
>> we missing in the first place ?
>>
>
>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area
> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LF=
A
>>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks t=
he
>>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence wit=
h
>>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>>
>>
>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>
>
>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
> benefit of PUA.
>

      Gyan>. We could use Aijun=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level T=
LV to
link the next hop rewrite loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to
passive. So if any PE-CE link goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop
converges PIC core PE-CE link which is now associated with the Loopback.
This would be a major benefit of PUA for PIC core convergence when
next-hop-self is used which applies to MPLS and SR and IP based core.


https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute=
/

So the two main critical  use cases where this solution solves a problem is
partitioned area scenario and nest hop convergence when next-hop-self is
used scenario.

I will update the presentation deck and share.


>> Thx,
>> R.
>>
>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000919dd705b44e5084
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:01 AM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204)"><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Rasz=
uk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding=
-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-w=
idth:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having th=
e data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffi=
c converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0</div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do not buy this use case. Flooding within=
 the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned =
before there is no practical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decis=
ion on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy=
 this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0</div>=
</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ab=
ility to track the component prefixes and in case where component is down a=
nd traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more =
important use case is when links are down within the area and the area is p=
artitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is m=
issing half the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default =
advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary is s=
till advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is severely impacting as now you ha=
ve an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you =
drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the =
PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component =
prefixes.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;bord=
er-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><br></div><div>Please present us a picture in=
dicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&g=
t; will do=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1=
ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA can be used =
in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a link or nod=
e fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for the backup pa=
th so the active path.=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So wha=
t are we missing in the first place ?=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Sorry I=
 am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a link or=
 node goes down to improve data plane convergence.</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><b=
r></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding=
-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div>With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or=
 OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection -=
 with those tweaks the convergence is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So for In=
tra area convergence with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how=
 much faster the data plane will converge with PUA.</div></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>Even without any of the above listed chain of ac=
ronymous things will generally work well intra-area without PUAs.=C2=A0</di=
v><div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP ne=
xt hop self use case if I could figure out how PUA could help there that wo=
uld be a major benefit of PUA.</div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt;. We could use=
 Aijun=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level TLV to link the next hop r=
ewrite loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to passive. So if any PE-C=
E link goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop converges PIC core PE-CE li=
nk which is now associated with the Loopback.=C2=A0 This would be a major b=
enefit of PUA for PIC core convergence when next-hop-self is used which app=
lies to MPLS and SR and IP based core.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div><a href=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/">https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/</a></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So the two main critical =C2=A0=
use cases where this solution solves a problem is partitioned area scenario=
 and nest hop convergence when next-hop-self is used scenario.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will update the presentation deck =
and share.</div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"auto"></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left=
:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div=
></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"padding-bottom=
:1em;display:inline-block;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
 height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D=
"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans=
-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b style=3D"font-family:&quot;Verizon =
NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif">Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;li=
ne-height:13px;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"=
font-size:1em;font-family:georgia,serif;color:black"><i style=3D"font-famil=
y:georgia,serif">Network Solutions A</i></font><font face=3D"georgia, serif=
" style=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i style=3D"font-fam=
ily:georgia,serif">rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;m=
argin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif" st=
yle=3D"font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 =
Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000919dd705b44e5084--


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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:42:54 +0100
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi Gyan,

      Gyan>. We could use Aijun=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level T=
LV to
> link the next hop rewrite loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to
> passive. So if any PE-CE link goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop
> converges PIC core PE-CE link which is now associated with the Loopback.
> This would be a major benefit of PUA for PIC core convergence when
> next-hop-self is used which applies to MPLS and SR and IP based core.
>

I have read the above three sentences five times and came with two basic
observations:

* You are mixing PIC Core with PIC Edge - Please do not. Those are
completely separate features and it is a feature not a bug to keep them
that way.

* You are mixing external PE-CE interfaces with IGP passive interfaces -
Please do not. There should be no IGP flooding of any sort associated with
state of PE-CE interface. No need.

Thx a lot,
R.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Gyan,</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt;. We could use Aij=
un=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level TLV to link the next hop rewri=
te loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to passive. So if any PE-CE li=
nk goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop converges PIC core PE-CE link w=
hich is now associated with the Loopback.=C2=A0 This would be a major benef=
it of PUA for PIC core convergence when next-hop-self is used which applies=
 to MPLS and SR and IP based core.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>I have read the above three sentences five times and came with tw=
o basic observations:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>* You are mixing PIC C=
ore with PIC Edge - Please=C2=A0do not. Those are completely separate featu=
res and it is a feature not a bug to keep them that way.=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r></div><div>* You are mixing external PE-CE interfaces with IGP passive in=
terfaces - Please do not. There should be no IGP flooding of any sort assoc=
iated=C2=A0with state of PE-CE interface. No need.=C2=A0</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Thx a lot,<br>R.</div><div><br></div></div></div>

--0000000000002ce95205b44e839b--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Discussion on draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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> Q1: are you using this information to determine the routing to the =
network?=20
> On one hand, such advertisement does not effect on the normal SPF =
computation and may be useful for traffic engineering. For example, for =
IOAM service, if the HbH Processing Action of Node/Link is assigned to a =
slow processing plane, the Node or Link should be excluded for path =
computation. If the HbH Processing Action of Node/Link is ignore all =
extension Options header, the Node/Link can be used as the normal IPv6 =
transit node/link. If the HbH Processing Action of Node/Link is skip to =
Next extension Options header (e.g. Routing Header), the Node/Link can =
be considered as Endpoints in SRv6 routing. On the other hand, such =
advertisement is useful for entities to determine specific services =
encoded in HbH options header can be deployed in a given path.
>=20
> Q2: can you use the link color to compute paths?
> In the above, I answered, taking advantage of this advertisement, the =
exact action taken by Node or Link to process HbH options header can be =
determined (defined in Action Flag field), which can be useful for =
traffic engineering. Hence, such advertisement is not only used to =
determine whether the HbH options header supported by Node/Link or not. =
But the link color cannot exactly indicate the exact action.

This suggests that you=E2=80=99re missing one bit of information.  Thus, =
could you use two link colors to differentiate between the two?

Tony


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
CC: "'lsr'" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 14:09:32 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV0xyWbV_BCn5YmRpVha+hc7SWYSaGTPGwvueW=HxhEj+w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/ELtVlbX5Fc_F8dFgOI0A6iWCQCQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Agreed.

Robert

Can you explain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned a
number of times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?

I will respond to your other email separately.  I was trying to guess  as
to the BGP next hop use case you were referring to but apparently was way
off.

Thank you

Gyan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Speaking as WG member:
>
>
>
> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence use
> case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here althoug=
h
> I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this proble=
m.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Cc: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun
> Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the dat=
a
> plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>
>
>
> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practic=
al
> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If
> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pat=
ch
> ever to work around such a design.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to trac=
k
> the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is
> still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use cas=
e
> is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so
> one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the
> component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summa=
ry
> as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So
> this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the
> other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your
> traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and no=
w
> traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.
>
>
>
> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>
>
>
>      Gyan> will do
>
>
>
>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly =
by
> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>
>
>
> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
> we missing in the first place ?
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area
> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>
>
>
>
>
> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA =
&
> RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the
> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
> plane will converge with PUA.
>
>
>
> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
> benefit of PUA.
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
> *Silver Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div dir=3D"auto">Agreed.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Robert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Can you e=
xplain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned a number of=
 times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will respond to your other email separately=
.=C2=A0 I was trying to guess =C2=A0as to the BGP next hop use case you wer=
e referring to but apparently was way off.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div class=3D"m_3650236548432901138WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE fa=
ilure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some i=
nterest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place =
to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D=
"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto=
:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3=
:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I be=
lieve the original intention was related to having the data plane converge =
quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the A=
ctive ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I do not buy this use cas=
e. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same i=
nfo. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any ro=
uting or fwd decision on which ABR to
 use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a wo=
rst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agr=
eed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the com=
ponent prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still fo=
rwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important
 use case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitione=
d and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing ha=
lf the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise=
 the summary as long as their is one
 component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is se=
verely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the sum=
mary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA=
 the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent
 and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Please present us a pictu=
re indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&=
gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA =
can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a=
 link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for t=
he backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If there is no area segme=
ntation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first pla=
ce ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; So=
rry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a li=
nk or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">With the IGP tuned with B=
FD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-L=
FA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into=
 sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence
 with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the dat=
a plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Even without any of the a=
bove listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area =
without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Ag=
reed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fig=
ure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thx,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-de=
coration:none"><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;p=
adding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.84=
37in;height:.1875in" id=3D"m_3650236548432901138_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image =
removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" l=
ink=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"=
m_3650236548432901138WordSection1"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%=
0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M 301 =
502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0=
<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000cac45905b4523ce4--


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:31:33 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV1Tr64ujpk176CP9m91WxgnQeyBRd3rzcVhGbkGp7T98A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>       Gyan>. We could use Aijun=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level=
 TLV to
>> link the next hop rewrite loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to
>> passive. So if any PE-CE link goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop
>> converges PIC core PE-CE link which is now associated with the Loopback.
>> This would be a major benefit of PUA for PIC core convergence when
>> next-hop-self is used which applies to MPLS and SR and IP based core.
>>
>
> I have read the above three sentences five times and came with two basic
> observations:
>
> * You are mixing PIC Core with PIC Edge - Please do not. Those are
> completely separate features and it is a feature not a bug to keep them
> that way.
>

   Gyan> Sorry for the confusion. I agree we are not taking BGP PIC core
which is H-FIB core feature for core failures resulting in IGP next hop
update.  Also we are not talking about BGP PIC edge pre programmed backup
paths.  What I was trying to address is use of PUA to resolve a issue with
BGP convergence related to using BCP use of next hop self rewrite so PE-CE
link next hops do not have to be flooded into the IGP.  Down side of
next-hop-self is for convergence in the core from edge failure, the edge
failure is not detected and you have to wait for route to be withdrawn. So
I was thinking maybe PUA data plane convergence mechanism would be a way to
help with convergence.  Not sure how or if possible but was thinking that
as a possible use case for PUA.

>
> * You are mixing external PE-CE interfaces with IGP passive interfaces -
> Please do not. There should be no IGP flooding of any sort associated wit=
h
> state of PE-CE interface. No need.
>

    Understood.  Bad idea.

>
> Thx a lot,
> R.
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--00000000000012ac4705b4536245
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<div><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"></div></div></div><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM R=
obert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">rob=
ert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:sol=
id;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>Hi Gyan,</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;b=
order-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"=
><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gya=
n&gt;. We could use Aijun=E2=80=99s passive interface new top level TLV to =
link the next hop rewrite loopback to the PE-CE links all being set to pass=
ive. So if any PE-CE link goes down a PUA is sent and the next hop converge=
s PIC core PE-CE link which is now associated with the Loopback.=C2=A0 This=
 would be a major benefit of PUA for PIC core convergence when next-hop-sel=
f is used which applies to MPLS and SR and IP based core.</div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have read the above three sentences five=
 times and came with two basic observations:=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div=
>* You are mixing PIC Core with PIC Edge - Please=C2=A0do not. Those are co=
mpletely separate features and it is a feature not a bug to keep them that =
way.=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div>=
<div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Sorry for the confusion. I agr=
ee we are not taking BGP PIC core which is H-FIB core feature for core fail=
ures resulting in IGP next hop update.=C2=A0 Also we are not talking about =
BGP PIC edge pre programmed backup paths.=C2=A0 What I was trying to addres=
s is use of PUA to resolve a issue with BGP convergence related to using BC=
P use of next hop self rewrite so PE-CE link next hops do not have to be fl=
ooded into the IGP.=C2=A0 Down side of next-hop-self is for convergence in =
the core from edge failure, the edge failure is not detected and you have t=
o wait for route to be withdrawn. So I was thinking maybe PUA data plane co=
nvergence mechanism would be a way to help with convergence.=C2=A0 Not sure=
 how or if possible but was thinking that as a possible use case for PUA.</=
div></div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><br></div><di=
v>* You are mixing external PE-CE interfaces with IGP passive interfaces - =
Please do not. There should be no IGP flooding of any sort associated=C2=A0=
with state of PE-CE interface. No need.=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Understood.=C2=
=A0 Bad idea.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;=
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div><br></div><div>Thx a lot,<br>R.</div><div=
><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>
</div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"g=
mail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color=
:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank">=
<img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" widt=
h=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p styl=
e=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,=
sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"=
color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, ser=
if" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font><=
/p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><f=
ont face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br>=
</font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000012ac4705b4536245--


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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:40:19 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV2sgbycr2-uNTuYfVEMUvbE78z9FeCNM8+pky5q+ApQfA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/oOleA4NlPF0F1SijjCa_1JxULKQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Robert

I am recalling now the BGP use case you mentioned.

If the next hop is being summarized between areas which it would be, the
next hop failure component prefix is now hidden in the summary and now you
have to wait for BGP timer to pop and route withdrawal.

So for this failure scenario one option is multihop BFD but that does get
way complicated.

So here the obvious and best use case for PUA would be for the data plane
detection of the next hop component down at which time PUA is sent flooded
and the routers in the other area now set next hop to null for that next
hop and are forced to converge on alternate next hop.

Let me update the presentation to add this use case.

Thanks

Gyan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed.
>
> Robert
>
> Can you explain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned =
a
> number of times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?
>
> I will respond to your other email separately.  I was trying to guess  as
> to the BGP next hop use case you were referring to but apparently was way
> off.
>
> Thank you
>
> Gyan
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
>> Speaking as WG member:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence us=
e
>> case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here althou=
gh
>> I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this probl=
em.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>> *Cc: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun
>> Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traff=
ic
>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practi=
cal
>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. I=
f
>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pa=
tch
>> ever to work around such a design.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to
>> track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and
>> traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more
>> important use case is when links are down within the area and the area i=
s
>> partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR =
is
>> missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default
>> advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary i=
s
>> still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as now you hav=
e
>> an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you
>> drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PU=
A
>> is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component
>> prefixes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>>
>>
>>
>>      Gyan> will do
>>
>>
>>
>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly=
 by
>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
>> we missing in the first place ?
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra are=
a
>> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA
>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks th=
e
>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
>> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
>> benefit of PUA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thx,
>> R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>> *Silver Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000755c1705b4538185
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">I am recalling now the BGP use case you mentioned.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If the next hop is being s=
ummarized between areas which it would be, the next hop failure component p=
refix is now hidden in the summary and now you have to wait for BGP timer t=
o pop and route withdrawal.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">So for this failure scenario one option is multihop BFD but that =
does get way complicated.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">So here the obvious and best use case for PUA would be for the data plane=
 detection of the next hop component down at which time PUA is sent flooded=
 and the routers in the other area now set next hop to null for that next h=
op and are forced to converge on alternate next hop.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Let me update the presentation to add th=
is use case.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 202=
0 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayab=
usagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"auto">Agreed.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">R=
obert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Can you expl=
ain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned a number of ti=
mes that you think this PUA feature would pertain?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will respond to your other email separately.=
=C2=A0 I was trying to guess =C2=A0as to the BGP next hop use case you were=
 referring to but apparently was way off.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE fa=
ilure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some i=
nterest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place =
to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
 on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D=
"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto=
:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3=
:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I be=
lieve the original intention was related to having the data plane converge =
quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the A=
ctive ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I do not buy this use cas=
e. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same i=
nfo. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any ro=
uting or fwd decision on which ABR to
 use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a wo=
rst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agr=
eed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the com=
ponent prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still fo=
rwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important
 use case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitione=
d and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing ha=
lf the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise=
 the summary as long as their is one
 component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is se=
verely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the sum=
mary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA=
 the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent
 and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Please present us a pictu=
re indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&=
gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA =
can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a=
 link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for t=
he backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If there is no area segme=
ntation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first pla=
ce ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; So=
rry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a li=
nk or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">With the IGP tuned with B=
FD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-L=
FA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into=
 sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence
 with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the dat=
a plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Even without any of the a=
bove listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area =
without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Ag=
reed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fig=
ure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.<u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thx,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http=
://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#222222;text-de=
coration:none"><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;p=
adding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"width:.84=
37in;height:.1875in" id=3D"m_5544610697067686890m_3650236548432901138_x0000=
_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></=
span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><a href=3D"https:/=
/www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?en=
try=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gya=
n Mishra</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Networ=
k Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:#222222"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">M 301 =
502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Colum=
bia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_si=
gnature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color=
:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,8=
5,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81"=
 height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"fon=
t-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-ser=
if;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rg=
b(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" styl=
e=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p st=
yle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=
=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font><=
/i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 23:31:35 +0100
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Yes that is the case where I see some potential use case.

Especially considering also https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5283 - which by
many network operators is very desired, but not configured due to "slow BGP
convergence" - pls let's not go there :)

But again if someone knows how to configure BGP properly I think IGP
speedup would be marginal or even null hence a grain of hesitation if we
should use IGP flooding for it. Maybe in some scenarios ... which PUA
authors need to spell out to move fwd I suppose.

Cheers,
R.








On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:40 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Robert
>
> I am recalling now the BGP use case you mentioned.
>
> If the next hop is being summarized between areas which it would be, the
> next hop failure component prefix is now hidden in the summary and now yo=
u
> have to wait for BGP timer to pop and route withdrawal.
>
> So for this failure scenario one option is multihop BFD but that does get
> way complicated.
>
> So here the obvious and best use case for PUA would be for the data plane
> detection of the next hop component down at which time PUA is sent floode=
d
> and the routers in the other area now set next hop to null for that next
> hop and are forced to converge on alternate next hop.
>
> Let me update the presentation to add this use case.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gyan
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Can you explain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned
>> a number of times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?
>>
>> I will respond to your other email separately.  I was trying to guess  a=
s
>> to the BGP next hop use case you were referring to but apparently was wa=
y
>> off.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking as WG member:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence
>>> use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here
>>> although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve =
this problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Date: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>> *Cc: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,
>>> Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
>>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote=
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traf=
fic
>>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no pract=
ical
>>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. =
If
>>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst p=
atch
>>> ever to work around such a design.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to
>>> track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and
>>> traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more
>>> important use case is when links are down within the area and the area =
is
>>> partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR=
 is
>>> missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default
>>> advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary =
is
>>> still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as now you ha=
ve
>>> an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you
>>> drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the P=
UA
>>> is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component
>>> prefixes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      Gyan> will do
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickl=
y by
>>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what ar=
e
>>> we missing in the first place ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra
>>> area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergenc=
e.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LF=
A
>>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks t=
he
>>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence wit=
h
>>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use cas=
e
>>> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
>>> benefit of PUA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thx,
>>> R.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
>

--00000000000053694005b4550fd7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>Yes that is the case where I see some poten=
tial use case.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Especially considering also=C2=A0<a=
 href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5283">https://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc5283</a> - which by many network operators is very desired, but not confi=
gured due to &quot;slow BGP convergence&quot; - pls let&#39;s not go there =
:)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>But again=C2=A0if someone knows how to co=
nfigure=C2=A0BGP properly I think IGP speedup would be marginal or even nul=
l hence a grain of hesitation if we should use IGP flooding for it. Maybe i=
n some scenarios ... which PUA authors need to spell out to move fwd I supp=
ose.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>R.</div><div><br></di=
v><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></di=
v><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:40 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I=
 am recalling now the BGP use case you mentioned.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto">If the next hop is being summarized between areas=
 which it would be, the next hop failure component prefix is now hidden in =
the summary and now you have to wait for BGP timer to pop and route withdra=
wal.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So for this f=
ailure scenario one option is multihop BFD but that does get way complicate=
d.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So here the obvious a=
nd best use case for PUA would be for the data plane detection of the next =
hop component down at which time PUA is sent flooded and the routers in the=
 other area now set next hop to null for that next hop and are forced to co=
nverge on alternate next hop.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">Let me update the presentation to add this use case.</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishr=
a &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusags=
m@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Agreed.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Can you explain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentioned =
a number of times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will respond to your other email=
 separately.=C2=A0 I was trying to guess =C2=A0as to the BGP next hop use c=
ase you were referring to but apparently was way off.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE fa=
ilure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some i=
nterest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place =
to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; o=
n behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D=
"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto=
:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at =
3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I b=
elieve the original intention was related to having the data plane converge=
 quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the =
Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I do not buy this use ca=
se. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same =
info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any r=
outing or fwd decision on which ABR to
 use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a wo=
rst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Ag=
reed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the co=
mponent prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still f=
orwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important
 use case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitione=
d and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing ha=
lf the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise=
 the summary as long as their is one
 component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is se=
verely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the sum=
mary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA=
 the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent
 and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Please present us a pict=
ure indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan=
&gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA=
 can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when =
a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for =
the backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If there is no area segm=
entation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first pl=
ace ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; S=
orry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a l=
ink or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">With the IGP tuned with =
BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-=
LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well int=
o sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence
 with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the dat=
a plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Even without any of the =
above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area=
 without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; A=
greed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fi=
gure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thx,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"gmail-m_230690901507884=
7992m_5544610697067686890m_3650236548432901138_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image re=
moved by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+=
%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Colum=
bia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18p=
x; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black=
"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-hei=
ght:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"=
><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, =
serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px=
;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1=
347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><=
div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18p=
x; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-fami=
ly:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black=
"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-hei=
ght:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"=
><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, =
serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px=
;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1=
347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><=
div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 17:44:44 -0500
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>,  Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Thanks Robert!

I will work on spelling out the scenario in updated LSR presentation.

Thanks

Gyan
On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:31 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

>
> Yes that is the case where I see some potential use case.
>
> Especially considering also https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5283 - which
> by many network operators is very desired, but not configured due to "slo=
w
> BGP convergence" - pls let's not go there :)
>
> But again if someone knows how to configure BGP properly I think IGP
> speedup would be marginal or even null hence a grain of hesitation if we
> should use IGP flooding for it. Maybe in some scenarios ... which PUA
> authors need to spell out to move fwd I suppose.
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:40 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> I am recalling now the BGP use case you mentioned.
>>
>> If the next hop is being summarized between areas which it would be, the
>> next hop failure component prefix is now hidden in the summary and now y=
ou
>> have to wait for BGP timer to pop and route withdrawal.
>>
>> So for this failure scenario one option is multihop BFD but that does ge=
t
>> way complicated.
>>
>> So here the obvious and best use case for PUA would be for the data plan=
e
>> detection of the next hop component down at which time PUA is sent flood=
ed
>> and the routers in the other area now set next hop to null for that next
>> hop and are forced to converge on alternate next hop.
>>
>> Let me update the presentation to add this use case.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> Can you explain the BGP scenario you had in mind that you have mentione=
d
>>> a number of times that you think this PUA feature would pertain?
>>>
>>> I will respond to your other email separately.  I was trying to guess
>>>  as to the BGP next hop use case you were referring to but apparently w=
as
>>> way off.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Gyan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Speaking as WG member:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence
>>>> use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here
>>>> although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve=
 this problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Acee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>>>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>>> *Date: *Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>>>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>>> *Cc: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,
>>>> Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
>>>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>>>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so tra=
ffic
>>>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>>>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no prac=
tical
>>>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use.=
 If
>>>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst =
patch
>>>> ever to work around such a design.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to
>>>> track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and
>>>> traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more
>>>> important use case is when links are down within the area and the area=
 is
>>>> partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other AB=
R is
>>>> missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default
>>>> advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary=
 is
>>>> still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as now you h=
ave
>>>> an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and yo=
u
>>>> drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the =
PUA
>>>> is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component
>>>> prefixes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour=
.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Gyan> will do
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within =
a
>>>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quick=
ly by
>>>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what
>>>> are we missing in the first place ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra
>>>> area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergen=
ce.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and
>>>> LFA & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those twe=
aks
>>>> the convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergenc=
e
>>>> with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the=
 data
>>>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>>>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use
>>>> case if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a ma=
jor
>>>> benefit of PUA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thx,
>>>> R.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>>
>>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>> *Silver Spring, MD
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+=
Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+S=
ilver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
>>> Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+S=
ilver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike%C2%A0+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Silver
>> Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike%C2%A0+Silver+Spr=
ing,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000006306b505b4553ed9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks Robert!</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">I will work on spelling out the scenario in updated=
 LSR presentation.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan<br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"=
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:31 PM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert=
@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>Yes that is the case where I see=
 some potential use case.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Especially considering a=
lso=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5283" target=3D"_blank">=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5283</a> - which by many network operators i=
s very desired, but not configured due to &quot;slow BGP convergence&quot; =
- pls let&#39;s not go there :)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>But again=C2=
=A0if someone knows how to configure=C2=A0BGP properly I think IGP speedup =
would be marginal or even null hence a grain of hesitation if we should use=
 IGP flooding for it. Maybe in some scenarios ... which PUA authors need to=
 spell out to move fwd I suppose.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</d=
iv><div>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div=
><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:40 =
PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I am recalling now the BGP us=
e case you mentioned.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If=
 the next hop is being summarized between areas which it would be, the next=
 hop failure component prefix is now hidden in the summary and now you have=
 to wait for BGP timer to pop and route withdrawal.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">So for this failure scenario one option i=
s multihop BFD but that does get way complicated.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto">So here the obvious and best use case for PUA wou=
ld be for the data plane detection of the next hop component down at which =
time PUA is sent flooded and the routers in the other area now set next hop=
 to null for that next hop and are forced to converge on alternate next hop=
.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Let me update th=
e presentation to add this use case.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Thanks</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan=
</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 2:09 PM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:haya=
busagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Agreed.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Can you explain the BGP sc=
enario you had in mind that you have mentioned a number of times that you t=
hink this PUA feature would pertain?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">I will respond to your other email separately.=C2=A0 I was try=
ing to guess =C2=A0as to the BGP next hop use case you were referring to bu=
t apparently was way off.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">Thank you=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</=
div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:43 AM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE fa=
ilure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some i=
nterest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place =
to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; o=
n behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D=
"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto=
:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at =
3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I b=
elieve the original intention was related to having the data plane converge=
 quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the =
Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I do not buy this use ca=
se. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same =
info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any r=
outing or fwd decision on which ABR to
 use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a wo=
rst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Ag=
reed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the co=
mponent prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still f=
orwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important
 use case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitione=
d and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing ha=
lf the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise=
 the summary as long as their is one
 component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is se=
verely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the sum=
mary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA=
 the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent
 and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Please present us a pict=
ure indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan=
&gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA=
 can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when =
a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for =
the backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If there is no area segm=
entation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first pl=
ace ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; S=
orry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a l=
ink or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">With the IGP tuned with =
BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-=
LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well int=
o sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence
 with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the dat=
a plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Even without any of the =
above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area=
 without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; A=
greed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fi=
gure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thx,<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width:0.8437in;height:0.1875in" id=3D"m_2878449000980153396gmail-=
m_2306909015078847992m_5544610697067686890m_3650236548432901138_x0000_i1025=
" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><a href=3D"=
https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring=
,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">
</a><p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Si=
lver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Colum=
bia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pi=
ke+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">=C2=A0</a>=
<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/ma=
ps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;so=
urce=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D=
%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">
</a></div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0=
+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike=
</a>=C2=A0<br></font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/1310=
1+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+%0D%0A+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3D=
g">Silver Spring, MD</a></p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://=
www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:=
inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Ver=
izonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px=
;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&=
quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b=
>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:=
13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>=
Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;lin=
e-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<=
br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike%C2%A0+=
Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0</=
a><br></font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columb=
ia+Pike%C2%A0+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver Spring=
, MD</a></p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--0000000000006306b505b4553ed9--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VYk9v4epURIgs7FpGBIGpwOYKTI>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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Hi, Acee:

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Speaking as WG member and longtime steward  of the IGPs:

=20

Hi Aijun,=20

=20

My opinion is that we should not overload the base IGP topology =
advertisements with everyone's favorite obscure use case. Hence, I think =
it would be a big mistake to add this stub link TLV to the base LSAs.=20

[WAJ] Putting the information in other regular TLVs, or putting them in =
LSA of one independent IGP instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will =
be more expensive. Do you agree this statement?

=20

Rather, exactly what problem are you trying to solve? Previously, you =
were trying to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix =
and making some inference related to an inter-AS boundary (this was not =
entirely clear). What problem are you trying to solve? Precisely, what =
do you want the controller to learn (i.e., address or interface index) =
and what is it going to do with it.

[WAJ] Passive Interfaces are already deployed within the network in many =
places, as stated in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06#section-1> . What we want to know, is the position of =
passive interface. Previously, we want piggyback such information within =
its associated prefix, but after discussion on the mail list, define one =
new TLV to contain it and other future information may be more =
acceptable and extensible.

Knowing these information, the controller can learn the inter-as links =
via some methods that we have discussed in another thread, can know the =
boundary of network, can learn the link characteristic that associated =
with server etc. We have also mentioned it in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06#section-1>  and think it is not appropriate to expand it =
intensely in one LSR draft.

=20

Please don't try and solve the CFN problem as the requirements are not =
clear (anycast, unicast, impact on routing, scope, etc).=20

[WAJ] In your 109 meeting presentation =
slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-00 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-lsr-5-ospf=
-transport-instance-00> , you mentioned also the similar information =
that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think this is the =
direction and we can prepare for it in advance. Putting such non-routing =
information in one independent TLV can certainly keep the stability of =
IGP protocol.=20

=20

=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=EF=BB=BFOn 11/17/20, 1:08 AM, " =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang> =
wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" < =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:

=20

    Hi, Acee:

=20

    As discussed on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated =
the draft to reflect the comments from the LSR community.

    Please see whether you have still other concerns or not and if there =
is no further comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption =
call then?

    Thanks you and Peter for your intense discussions for this draft.

=20

    Thanks in advance.

=20

    Best Regards

=20

    Aijun Wang

    China Telecom

=20

    > -----Original Message-----

    > From:  <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org =
< <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org>

    > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:44 AM

    > To: Zhibo Hu < <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com> huzhibo@huawei.com>; =
Aijun Wang

    > < <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>; Gyan =
S. Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>;

    > Gyan Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>

    > Subject: New Version Notification for

    > draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    >=20

    >=20

    > A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    > has been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the =
IETF

    > repository.

    >=20

    > Name:           draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute

    > Revision:       06

    > Title:              Passive Interface Attribute

    > Document date:   2020-11-15

    > Group:          Individual Submission

    > Pages:           10

    > URL:

    >  =
<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te-06.t> =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06.t

    > xt

    > Status:

    >  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attrib=
ute/> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te/

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribut> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-at=
tribut

    > e

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-0=
6> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06=


    > Diff:

    >  =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-att=
ribute-06> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06

    >=20

    > Abstract:

    >    This document describes the mechanism that can be used to

    >    differentiate the passive interfaces from the normal interfaces

    >    within ISIS or OSPF domain.

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission

    > until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

    >=20

    > The IETF Secretariat

    >=20

=20

=20

=20

_______________________________________________

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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72" =
style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
&lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)<br>Sent: =
Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 AM<br>To: Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn&gt;<br>Cc: 'lsr' =
&lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt</span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Speaking as WG member and =
longtime steward=C2=A0 of the IGPs:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi Aijun, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>My opinion is that we should not overload the base IGP =
topology advertisements with everyone's favorite obscure use case. =
Hence, I think it would be a big mistake to add this stub link TLV to =
the base LSAs. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ] Putting the information in =
other regular TLVs, or putting them in LSA of one independent IGP =
instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will be more expensive. Do you =
agree this statement?</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Rather, exactly what problem are =
you trying to solve? Previously, you were trying to associate the =
passive interface attribute with a prefix and making some inference =
related to an inter-AS boundary (this was not entirely clear). What =
problem are you trying to solve? Precisely, what do you want the =
controller to learn (i.e., address or interface index) and what is it =
going to do with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ]</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'> <b><i>Passive Interfaces are already deployed =
within the network in many places, as stated in the </i></b><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06#section-1">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-=
06#section-1</a>. <b><i>What we want to know, is the position of passive =
interface. Previously, we want piggyback such information within its =
associated prefix, but after discussion on the mail list, define one new =
TLV to contain it and other future information may be more acceptable =
and extensible.<o:p></o:p></i></b></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Knowing these information, the controller can =
learn the inter-as links via some methods that we have discussed in =
another thread, can know the boundary of network, can learn the link =
characteristic that associated with server etc. We have also mentioned =
it in the</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'> <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06#section-1">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-=
06#section-1</a><b><i> and think it is not appropriate to expand it =
intensely in one LSR draft.</i></b><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Please don't try and solve the =
CFN problem as the requirements are not clear (anycast, unicast, impact =
on routing, scope, etc). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ] In your 109 meeting presentation <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-lsr=
-5-ospf-transport-instance-00">slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-0=
0</a>, you mentioned also the similar information that should be =
transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think this is the direction and we =
can prepare for it in advance. Putting such non-routing information in =
one independent TLV can certainly keep the stability of IGP protocol. =
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>=EF=BB=BF</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On 11/17/20, 1:08 AM, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang"=
><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn =
on behalf of Aijun Wang</span></a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As discussed =
on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated the draft to =
reflect the comments from the LSR community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Please see =
whether you have still other concerns or not and if there is no further =
comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption call =
then?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks you and Peter for your intense =
discussions for this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks in =
advance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 =
7:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; To: Zhibo Hu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>huzhibo@huawei.com</span>=
</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt;; Gyan S. Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; Gyan Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; Subject: New Version Notification =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; A =
new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; has =
been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the =
IETF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; repository.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; =
Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 06<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Passive Interface Attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; Document =
date:=C2=A0=C2=A0 2020-11-15<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual =
Submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
10<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; URL:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-=
attribute-06.t"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/arch=
ive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.t</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; xt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Status:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface=
-attribute/"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
&gt; Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribut"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; e<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; =
Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
&gt; Diff:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interf=
ace-attribute-06"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/rfcd=
iff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; =
Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document =
describes the mechanism that can be used to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 differentiate the passive interfaces from the =
normal interfaces<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 within ISIS or =
OSPF domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; Please note that it may take a =
couple of minutes from the time of submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; until =
the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0&gt; The =
IETF Secretariat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
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From: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
To: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Discussion on draft-wang-lsr-hbh-process-00
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 19:33:59 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (there=E2=
=80=99s IX with RS use case) B=46D verification based on next-hop extract=
ion, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in pr=
evious life).

Very simple logic:

Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, w=
alk B=46D session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S=
)B=46D session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the n=
ext-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reaso=
nable to prevent false positives.

State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service) only
High degree of automation
No IGP pollution

Cheers,
Jeff
On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=40cisco.com>, wr=
ote:
> Speaking as WG member:
>
> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence u=
se case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here alth=
ough I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this p=
roblem.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> =46rom: Lsr <lsr-bounces=40ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <hayabusa=
gsm=40gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
> To: Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>
> Cc: lsr <lsr=40ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf=40gmail.com>, Ai=
jun Wang <wangaijun=40tsinghua.org.cn>, =22Acee Lindem (acee)=22 <acee=3D=
40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: =5BLsr=5D Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net> wro=
te:
> > quote=5Ftype
> >
> >
> > > quote=5Ftype
> > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe the original intention was related t=
o having the data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and f=
lip so traffic converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
> >
> > I do not buy this use case. =46looding within the area is fast such t=
hat both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no pra=
ctical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to =
use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a w=
orst patch ever to work around such a design.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan> Agreed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is th=
e ability to track the component prefixes and in case where component is =
down and traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The oth=
er more important use case is when links are down within the area and the=
 area is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however ot=
her ABR is missing half the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR wi=
ll by default advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP =
the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is severely impac=
ting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via t=
he two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA the pro=
blem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR=
 that has the component prefixes.
> > quote=5Ftype
> >
> > Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviou=
r.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan> will do
> > quote=5Ftype
> >
> > > quote=5Ftype
> > > =C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA can be used in the absence of area segment=
ation within a single area when a link or node fails to converge the data=
 plane quickly by sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
> >
> > If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what =
are we missing in the first place =3F
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be use=
d intra area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane conv=
ergence.
> > quote=5Ftype
> >
> >
> > > quote=5Ftype
> > > With the IGP tuned with B=46D fast detection on ISIS or OSP=46 link=
s and L=46A & RL=46A for MPLS or TI-L=46A for SR local protection - with =
those tweaks the convergence is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra =
area convergence with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how m=
uch faster the data plane will converge with PUA.
> >
> > Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will =
generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop se=
lf use case if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be =
a major benefit of PUA.
> > quote=5Ftype
> >
> > Thx,
> > R.
> >
> >
> --
> <>
> Gyan Mishra
> Network Solutions Architect
> M 301 502-1347
> 13101 Columbia Pike
> Silver Spring, MD
>

--5fb49630_24e99dd7_ba5e
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<html xmlns=3D=22http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml=22>
<head>
<title></title>
</head>
<body>
<div name=3D=22messageBodySection=22>
<div dir=3D=22auto=22>We have been discussing for quite some time and in =
different wg's (there=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) B=46D verification b=
ased on next-hop extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well=
 working prototype in previous life).&=23160;<br />
<br />
Very simple logic:<br />
<br />
Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, w=
alk B=46D session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S=
)B=46D session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the n=
ext-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reaso=
nable to prevent false positives.<br />
<br />
State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service) only<br />
High degree of automation<br />
No IGP pollution&=23160;</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageSignatureSection=22><br />
<div class=3D=22match=46ont=22>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D=22messageReplySection=22>On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Ace=
e Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=40cisco.com&gt;, wrote:<br />
<blockquote type=3D=22cite=22 style=3D=22border-left-color: grey; border-=
left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left:=
 10px;=22>
<div class=3D=22WordSection1=22>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>Speaking as WG member:</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>&=23160;</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP=
 PE failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there i=
s some interest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the ri=
ght place to solve this problem.</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>&=23160;</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>Thanks,</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>Acee</p>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22>&=23160;</p>
<div style=3D=22border:none;border-top:solid =23B5C4D=46 1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0in 0in 0in=22>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22><b><span style=3D=
=22font-size:12.0pt;color:black=22>=46rom:</span></b> <span style=3D=22fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;color:black=22>Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces=40ietf.org&gt; on behal=
f of Gyan Mishra &lt;hayabusagsm=40gmail.com&gt;<br />
<b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br />
<b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk &lt;robert=40raszuk.net&gt;<br />
<b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;lsr=40ietf.org&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;jefftant.ietf=40=
gmail.com&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;wangaijun=40tsinghua.org.cn&gt;, =22Acee Li=
ndem (acee)=22 &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: =5BLsr=5D Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases</=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>On Tue, Nov 17,=
 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D=22mailto:robert=40raszuk.ne=
t=22>robert=40raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0;Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the data=
 plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic co=
nverges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>I do not buy th=
is use case. =46looding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will =
get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA f=
or making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs a=
re not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to =
work around such a design.&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0;Gyan&gt; Agreed.&=23160; The point of PUA in ABR use case is the abilit=
y to track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and=
 traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.&=23160; The other mor=
e important use case is when links are down within the area and the area =
is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other AB=
R is missing half the component prefixes.&=23160; So since the ABR will b=
y default advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the =
summary is still advertised.&=23160; So this use case is severely impacti=
ng as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the=
 two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.&=23160; So now with PUA the pro=
blem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR=
 that has the component prefixes.</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>Please present =
us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0; &=23160;Gyan&gt; will do&=23160;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0;However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a si=
ngle area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by=
 sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>If there is no =
area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in t=
he first place =3F&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0; Gyan&gt; Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra ar=
ea where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.</=
p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>With the IGP tu=
ned with B=46D fast detection on ISIS or OSP=46 links and L=46A &amp; RL=46=
A for MPLS or TI-L=46A for SR local protection - with those tweaks the co=
nvergence is well into sub second.&=23160; So for Intra area convergence =
with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the da=
ta plane will converge with PUA.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>Even without an=
y of the above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well=
 intra-area without PUAs.&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160; &=2316=
0; Gyan&gt; Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use cas=
e if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major be=
nefit of PUA.</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D=22border:none;border-left:solid =23CCCCCC 1.0pt;padd=
ing:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=22>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>Thx,<br />
R.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>--</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22><span style=3D=22color:=23222222=22><a =
href=3D=22http://www.verizon.com/=22 target=3D=22=5Fblank=22><span style=3D=
=22color:=23222222;text-decoration:none=22><span style=3D=22color:=231155=
CC;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in=22>&lt;&gt;</span></span></a=
></span></p>
<p style=3D=22mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;m=
argin-left:.5in;mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt=22><b><span style=3D=22font-fa=
mily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=22>Gyan Mishra</span></b><s=
pan style=3D=22font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black=22></=
span></p>
<p style=3D=22mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;m=
argin-left:.5in;mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt=22><i><span style=3D=22font-fa=
mily:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black=22>Network Solutions Architect=
&=23160;</span></i><span style=3D=22color:=23222222=22></span></p>
<p style=3D=22mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;m=
argin-left:.5in;mso-line-height-alt:9.75pt=22><i><span style=3D=22font-fa=
mily:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black=22>M 301 502-1347<br />
13101 Columbia Pike&=23160;<br /></span></i> <span style=3D=22color:black=
=22>Silver Spring, MD</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D=22MsoNormal=22 style=3D=22margin-left:.5in=22>&=23160;</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--5fb49630_24e99dd7_ba5e--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "'lsr'" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
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Hi, Acee:

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:39 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:27 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: RE: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Hi, Acee:

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
<lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> =
>
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Speaking as WG member and longtime steward  of the IGPs:

=20

Hi Aijun,=20

=20

My opinion is that we should not overload the base IGP topology =
advertisements with everyone's favorite obscure use case. Hence, I think =
it would be a big mistake to add this stub link TLV to the base LSAs.=20

[WAJ] Putting the information in other regular TLVs, or putting them in =
LSA of one independent IGP instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will =
be more expensive. Do you agree this statement?

=20

No =E2=80=93 bloating the primary LSAs with non-routing information will =
be more expensive due to the dynamics of LSA origination and route =
computation.=20

[WAJ] what=E2=80=99s your recommendation then? The router can skip such =
information when they do SPF calculation, just need only add the =
information to the attached leaf router when the computation is =
completed. The LSA update is periodic and event driven. Advertising such =
information in a controlled manner does not deteriorate the flooding =
status.=20

=20

Rather, exactly what problem are you trying to solve? Previously, you =
were trying to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix =
and making some inference related to an inter-AS boundary (this was not =
entirely clear). What problem are you trying to solve? Precisely, what =
do you want the controller to learn (i.e., address or interface index) =
and what is it going to do with it.

[WAJ] Passive Interfaces are already deployed within the network in many =
places, as stated in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06#section-1> . What we want to know, is the position of =
passive interface. Previously, we want piggyback such information within =
its associated prefix, but after discussion on the mail list, define one =
new TLV to contain it and other future information may be more =
acceptable and extensible.

=20

And how do identify and even define the position of the passive =
interface?=20

[WAJ] Passive interface be certainly attached the router that advertises =
the associated stub-link TLV. =20

=20

As I stated previously, passive interfaces are not standardized.=20

[WAJ] if you mentioned just the term, we can change it later. Or if so, =
what=E2=80=99s other term do you recommend then?

=20

Knowing these information, the controller can learn the inter-as links =
via some methods that we have discussed in another thread, can know the =
boundary of network, can learn the link characteristic that associated =
with server etc. We have also mentioned it in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06#section-1>  and think it is not appropriate to expand it =
intensely in one LSR draft.

=20

I disagree. Precisely define your use case.=20

[WAJ] which part of the introduction section is not clear enough? There =
are about 3 possible use cases of such information, aren=E2=80=99t they =
enough?

And, we have described one use case in detail in previous version of =
this draft draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04#section-3 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-0=
4#section-3> . If necessary, we can add it back again in the next =
version. This is just one use case, you can also refer to =
draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01=
>  for the detail of another use case. =20

=20

=20

=20

Please don't try and solve the CFN problem as the requirements are not =
clear (anycast, unicast, impact on routing, scope, etc).=20

[WAJ] In your 109 meeting presentation =
slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-00 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-lsr-5-ospf=
-transport-instance-00> , you mentioned also the similar information =
that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think this is the =
direction and we can prepare for it in advance. Putting such non-routing =
information in one independent TLV can certainly keep the stability of =
IGP protocol.=20

=20

This was just an example of something that could be offloaded to a =
separate instance in the slides. It is not a specification.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

On 11/17/20, 1:08 AM, " =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang> =
wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" < =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:

=20

    Hi, Acee:

=20

    As discussed on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated =
the draft to reflect the comments from the LSR community.

    Please see whether you have still other concerns or not and if there =
is no further comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption =
call then?

    Thanks you and Peter for your intense discussions for this draft.

=20

    Thanks in advance.

=20

    Best Regards

=20

    Aijun Wang

    China Telecom

=20

    > -----Original Message-----

    > From:  <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org =
< <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org>

    > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:44 AM

    > To: Zhibo Hu < <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com> huzhibo@huawei.com>; =
Aijun Wang

    > < <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>; Gyan =
S. Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>;

    > Gyan Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>

    > Subject: New Version Notification for

    > draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    >=20

    >=20

    > A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    > has been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the =
IETF

    > repository.

    >=20

    > Name:           draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute

    > Revision:       06

    > Title:              Passive Interface Attribute

    > Document date:   2020-11-15

    > Group:          Individual Submission

    > Pages:           10

    > URL:

    >  =
<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te-06.t> =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06.t

    > xt

    > Status:

    >  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attrib=
ute/> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te/

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribut> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-at=
tribut

    > e

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-0=
6> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06=


    > Diff:

    >  =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-att=
ribute-06> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06

    >=20

    > Abstract:

    >    This document describes the mechanism that can be used to

    >    differentiate the passive interfaces from the normal interfaces

    >    within ISIS or OSPF domain.

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission

    > until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

    >=20

    > The IETF Secretariat

    >=20

=20

=20

=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd;text-align:left'><=
b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, =
2020 12:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> 'lsr' =
&lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] New Version =
Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:27 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
[Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On =
Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)<br>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 =
AM<br>To: Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn">wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</a>&gt;<b=
r>Cc: 'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Lsr] =
New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Speaking as WG member and longtime steward&nbsp; of the =
IGPs:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Aijun, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>My opinion is that we should not overload the base IGP =
topology advertisements with everyone's favorite obscure use case. =
Hence, I think it would be a big mistake to add this stub link TLV to =
the base LSAs. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ] Putting the information in =
other regular TLVs, or putting them in LSA of one independent IGP =
instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will be more expensive. Do you =
agree this statement?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>No =E2=80=93 bloating the =
primary LSAs with non-routing information will be more expensive due to =
the dynamics of LSA origination and route computation. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] =
what=E2=80=99s your recommendation then? The router can skip such =
information when they do SPF calculation, just need only add the =
information to the attached leaf router when the computation is =
completed. The LSA update is periodic and event driven. Advertising such =
information in a controlled manner does not deteriorate the flooding =
status. </span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Rather, exactly what problem are you trying to solve? =
Previously, you were trying to associate the passive interface attribute =
with a prefix and making some inference related to an inter-AS boundary =
(this was not entirely clear). What problem are you trying to solve? =
Precisely, what do you want the controller to learn (i.e., address or =
interface index) and what is it going to do with =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ]</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'> <b><i>Passive Interfaces are already =
deployed within the network in many places, as stated in the </i></b><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06#section-1">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-=
06#section-1</a>. <b><i>What we want to know, is the position of passive =
interface. Previously, we want piggyback such information within its =
associated prefix, but after discussion on the mail list, define one new =
TLV to contain it and other future information may be more acceptable =
and extensible.</i></b></span><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>And how do identify and even =
define the position of the passive interface? <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] Passive =
interface be certainly attached the router that advertises the =
associated stub-link TLV.=C2=A0 </span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>As I stated previously, passive =
interfaces are not standardized. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] if you =
mentioned just the term, we can change it later. Or if so, =
what=E2=80=99s other term do you recommend then?</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>Knowing these information, the =
controller can learn the inter-as links via some methods that we have =
discussed in another thread, can know the boundary of network, can learn =
the link characteristic that associated with server etc. We have also =
mentioned it in the</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'> <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06#section-1">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-=
06#section-1</a><b><i> and think it is not appropriate to expand it =
intensely in one LSR draft.</i></b></span><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I disagree. Precisely define =
your use case. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] which part =
of the introduction section is not clear enough? There are about 3 =
possible use cases of such information, aren=E2=80=99t they =
enough?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>And, we have =
described one use case in detail in previous version of this draft <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-04#section-3">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04#section=
-3</a>. If necessary, we can add it back again in the next version. This =
is just one use case, you can also refer to <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf=
-ext-01">draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01</a> for the detail =
of another use case.=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Please don't try and solve the CFN problem as the =
requirements are not clear (anycast, unicast, impact on routing, scope, =
etc). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>[WAJ] In your 109 meeting =
presentation <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/materials/slides-109-lsr=
-5-ospf-transport-instance-00">slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-0=
0</a>, you mentioned also the similar information that should be =
transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think this is the direction and we =
can prepare for it in advance. Putting such non-routing information in =
one independent TLV can certainly keep the stability of IGP protocol. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>This was just an example of =
something that could be offloaded to a separate instance in the slides. =
It is not a specification. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On 11/17/20, 1:08 AM, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang"=
><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn =
on behalf of Aijun Wang</span></a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As discussed on the list and during the =
109 meeting, we have updated the draft to reflect the comments from the =
LSR community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please see whether you have still other =
concerns or not and if there is no further comments on this direction, =
can we begin the WG adoption call then?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks you and Peter for your intense =
discussions for this draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks in =
advance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; -----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 =
7:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; To: Zhibo Hu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>huzhibo@huawei.com</span>=
</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt;; Gyan S. Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Gyan Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Subject: New Version Notification =
for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; has been successfully submitted by =
Aijun Wang and posted to the IETF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; repository.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 06<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Passive Interface Attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Document date:&nbsp;&nbsp; =
2020-11-15<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual =
Submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
10<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; URL:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-=
attribute-06.t"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/arch=
ive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.t</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; xt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Status:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface=
-attribute/"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribut"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; e<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Diff:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interf=
ace-attribute-06"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/rfcd=
iff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document =
describes the mechanism that can be used to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; differentiate the =
passive interfaces from the normal interfaces<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; within ISIS or =
OSPF domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Please note that it may take a =
couple of minutes from the time of submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; until the htmlized version and diff =
are available at tools.ietf.org.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; The IETF =
Secretariat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Lsr mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0182_01D6BDBC.4F28E5F0--



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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 08:38:11 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMHLhqjuV5TSLwSor8n3Trup6XGntfBKYOSP_qikC1TQYA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>
Cc: "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/Q3wei9z6RR2cxlQtWw6X2KPBV5o>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi Zhibo,

> However, if there is a summary or default route in the area, FIB Miss
cannot be triggered.

If PUA is a /dev/null route this is not a FIB miss. It's a FIB hit.

Thx,
R.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 3:36 AM Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Tony:
>
>
>
> In fact, this protection use case protects the SRv6 mid-point.
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protectio=
n/.
> When the SRv6 mid-point fails, the PLR node can perform the next SID
> operation, which is triggered by FIB miss. However, if there is a summary
> or default route in the area, FIB Miss cannot be triggered.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Zhibo
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *tony.li@tony.li
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:31 PM
> *To:* Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> *Cc:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Robert
> Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
>
>
> And how would that help connectivity restoration ?
>
> *[WAJ] This action will trigger the path protection procedures, which wil=
l
> divert the traffic to other backup path.*
>
>
>
>
>
> This seems to be making some major assumptions about how path protection
> features operate. Those assumptions need to be
>
> very explicitly called out.
>
>
>
> The path protection features that I=E2=80=99m familiar with are triggered=
 by
> topological changes along the existing operable path. A PUA
>
> does not provide that.  Rather, it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary sig=
nal
> saying =E2=80=99this broke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about the fai=
lure, it=E2=80=99s
> difficult to
>
> understand exactly what path protection should make of this.  If a prefix
> is unreachable, the obvious implication is that the associated link has
>
> failed.  Path protection in a remote area is highly unlikely to have the
> topological details necessary to find an alternate path to that prefix.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Hi Zhibo,</div><div><br></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"text-indent:12px">&gt; However, if there is a summary or defaul=
t route in the area, FIB Miss cannot be triggered.</span>=C2=A0=C2=A0<br></=
div><div><br></div>If PUA is a /dev/null route this is not a FIB miss. It&#=
39;s a FIB hit.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div></div><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 20=
20 at 3:36 AM Huzhibo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com">huzhibo@hua=
wei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_2512104424462157061WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Tony:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:9pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In fa=
ct, this protection use case protects the SRv6 mid-point.
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-=
protection/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-rtgwg-srv6-midpoint-protection/=
</a>. When the SRv6 mid-point fails, the PLR node can perform the next SID =
operation, which is triggered by FIB miss. However, if there is a summary o=
r default route in the area, FIB
 Miss cannot be triggered.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:9pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:9pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank=
s<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:9pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:9pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhibo=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font=
-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Lsr [mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">to=
ny.li@tony.li</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" targ=
et=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;; Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Robert Raszuk &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt=
;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:21pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">And how would that help connect=
ivity restoration ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:21pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[WAJ] This action wil=
l trigger the path protection procedures, which will divert the traffic to =
other backup path.</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This seems to be making some ma=
jor assumptions about how path protection features operate. Those assumptio=
ns need to be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">very explicitly called out.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The path protection features th=
at I=E2=80=99m familiar with are triggered by topological changes along the=
 existing operable path. A PUA<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">does not provide that.=C2=A0 Ra=
ther, it=E2=80=99s something of a temporary signal saying =E2=80=99this bro=
ke=E2=80=99. Without more specifics about the failure, it=E2=80=99s difficu=
lt to=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">understand exactly what path pr=
otection should make of this.=C2=A0 If a prefix is unreachable, the obvious=
 implication is that the associated link has<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">failed.=C2=A0 Path protection i=
n a remote area is highly unlikely to have the topological details necessar=
y to find an alternate path to that prefix.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Tony<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 08:48:38 +0100
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Cc: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Jeff,

Please notice that WAN is not an IX.

While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants
each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the same
over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP
participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distributed
globally is often 100-200 ms.

Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That
means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE)
you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense timer
needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will
defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.

Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interface
meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting for
BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effects
to the applications itself.

So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup the
BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that
direction.

With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as experimental
for some time. As each network is different what is optimal solution for
one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other.

Many thx,
Robert


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (there=
=E2=80=99s
> IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extraction, Rober=
t
> - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in previous life)=
.
>
> Very simple logic:
>
> Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop,
> walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish
> (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the
> next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers
> reasonable to prevent false positives.
>
> State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service)
> only
> High degree of automation
> No IGP pollution
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>,
> wrote:
>
> Speaking as WG member:
>
>
>
> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence use
> case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here althoug=
h
> I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this proble=
m.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Cc:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun
> Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the dat=
a
> plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>
>
>
> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practic=
al
> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If
> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pat=
ch
> ever to work around such a design.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to trac=
k
> the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is
> still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use cas=
e
> is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so
> one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the
> component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summa=
ry
> as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So
> this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the
> other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your
> traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and no=
w
> traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.
>
>
>
> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>
>
>
>      Gyan> will do
>
>
>
>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly =
by
> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>
>
>
> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
> we missing in the first place ?
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area
> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>
>
>
>
>
> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA =
&
> RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the
> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
> plane will converge with PUA.
>
>
>
> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
> benefit of PUA.
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> <> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike * Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Jeff,<div><br></div><div>Please notice that WAN is not an =
IX.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>While you can have full mesh of BFD sess=
ions among all IXP participants each bombarding each over over TB fabric ev=
ery 100 ms or so to map the same over global WAN is a different game. If no=
thing else RTT between IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while =
RTT between PEs distributed globally is often 100-200 ms.=C2=A0</div><div><=
br></div><div>Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the wo=
rld. That means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on e=
ach PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sens=
e timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower =
will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=C2=A0</div><div><br=
></div><div>Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at an=
y interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then=
 waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in casc=
ading effects to the applications itself.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>So=
 this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup=C2=A0th=
e BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that dire=
ction.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>With that I am supportive of this wor=
k even if we label it as experimental for some time. As each network is dif=
ferent what is optimal solution for one design and deployment may not be op=
timal for the other.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Many thx,</div><div>Rob=
ert</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">



<div>
<div name=3D"messageBodySection">
<div dir=3D"auto">We have been discussing for quite some time and in differ=
ent wg&#39;s (there=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based o=
n next-hop extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working=
 prototype in previous life).=C2=A0<br>
<br>
Very simple logic:<br>
<br>
Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, wal=
k BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD s=
ession (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, a=
ssociate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to pre=
vent false positives.<br>
<br>
State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a se=
rvice) only<br>
High degree of automation<br>
No IGP pollution=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageSignatureSection"><br>
<div>Cheers,
<div>Jeff</div>
</div>
</div>
<div name=3D"messageReplySection">On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lind=
em (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;p=
adding-left:10px">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as WG member:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE fa=
ilure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some i=
nterest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place =
to solve this problem.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:</span></b> <span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:=
black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ls=
r-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:h=
ayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D=
"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto=
:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases</span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at =
3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I b=
elieve the original intention was related to having the data plane converge=
 quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the =
Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I do not buy this use ca=
se. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same =
info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any r=
outing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected =
with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a =
design.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Ag=
reed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the co=
mponent prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still f=
orwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important use case is=
 when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so one=
 ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the compo=
nent prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise the summary=
 as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=
=A0 So this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to =
the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traf=
fic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now=
 traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Please present us a pict=
ure indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan=
&gt; will do=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA=
 can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when =
a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for =
the backup path so the active path.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If there is no area segm=
entation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first pl=
ace ?=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; S=
orry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a l=
ink or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">With the IGP tuned with =
BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-=
LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well int=
o sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence with all the optimization=
s mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane will converge with=
 PUA.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Even without any of the =
above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area=
 without PUAs.=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; A=
greed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could fi=
gure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thx,<br>
R.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">--</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in">&lt;&gt;</span></span></a></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><b><span =
style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b><s=
pan style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><i><span =
style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Architect=
=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in"><i><span =
style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br></span></i> <span style=3D"color:black">Silver=
 Spring, MD</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--00000000000081165b05b45cd7f3--


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "'Gyan Mishra'" <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'lsr'" <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/3xM3wWseSW8VEMZ_-sBBDxMM2xU>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Robert:

=20

The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions =
based on the PUA can be different in different situation.=20

We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios =
after its WG adoption?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee@cisco.com>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang =
<wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

Jeff,

=20

Please notice that WAN is not an IX.=20

=20

While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants =
each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the =
same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between =
IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs =
distributed globally is often 100-200 ms.=20

=20

Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That =
means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE) =
you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense =
timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower =
will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=20

=20

Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any =
interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences =
then waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result =
in cascading effects to the applications itself.=20

=20

So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup =
the BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that =
direction.=20

=20

With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as =
experimental for some time. As each network is different what is optimal =
solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other. =


=20

Many thx,

Robert

=20

=20

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote:

We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's =
(there=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop =
extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working =
prototype in previous life).=20

Very simple logic:

Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, =
walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish =
(S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the =
next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers =
reasonable to prevent false positives.

State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service) only
High degree of automation
No IGP pollution=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, wrote:



Speaking as WG member:

=20

I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence =
use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here =
although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve =
this problem.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > on =
behalf of Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com =
<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com> >
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> >
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, Jeff Tantsura =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >, Aijun Wang =
<wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >, "Acee =
Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

=20

=20

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net =
<mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > wrote:

=20

=20

   Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the =
data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so =
traffic converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=20

=20

I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that =
both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no =
practical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR =
to use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is =
a worst patch ever to work around such a design.=20

=20

   Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to =
track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and =
traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more =
important use case is when links are down within the area and the area =
is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other =
ABR is missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by =
default advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the =
summary is still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as =
now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two =
ABRs and you drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is =
fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that =
has the component prefixes.

=20

Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=20

=20

     Gyan> will do=20

=20

   However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a =
single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly =
by sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.=20

=20

If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are =
we missing in the first place ?=20

=20

    Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra =
area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane =
convergence.

=20

=20

With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA =
& RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks =
the convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence =
with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the =
data plane will converge with PUA.

=20

Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will =
generally work well intra-area without PUAs.=20

=20

    Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case =
if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major =
benefit of PUA.

=20

Thx,
R.

=20

=20

--

 <http://www.verizon.com/> <>

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=20

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=20
Silver Spring, MD

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Robert:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions =
based on the PUA can be different in different situation. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
e can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios =
after its WG adoption?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Robert =
Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November =
18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra =
&lt;hayabusagsm@gmail.com&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;; lsr &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;; Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) =
&lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] =
Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Please notice that WAN is not an =
IX.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP =
participants each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so =
to map the same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT =
between IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between =
PEs distributed globally is often 100-200 =
ms.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the =
world. That means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present =
on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to =
make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. =
Anything slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be =
faster.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued =
at any interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in =
consequences then waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns =
often result in cascading effects to the applications =
itself.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which =
address to setup&nbsp;the BFD session. It is much more about operational =
aspects of going that =
direction.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it =
as experimental for some time. As each network is different what is =
optimal solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for =
the other.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Many thx,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Robert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div =
name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have been discussing for quite some time and in =
different wg's (there=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification =
based on next-hop extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a =
well working prototype in previous life).&nbsp;<br><br>Very simple =
logic:<br><br>Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), =
extract next-hop, walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing =
session) - establish (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a =
solved problem) to the next-hop, associate fate of all routes received =
from it, keep timers reasonable to prevent false positives.<br><br>State =
is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service) only<br>High degree of automation<br>No IGP =
pollution&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-=
bottom:3.75pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Speaking as WG =
member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>I think it would be good to hone in on =
the BGP PE failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems =
there is some interest here although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP =
is the right place to solve this problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:2=
1.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:1.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <span =
style=3D'color:black'>Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> Tuesday, =
November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, =
Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" =
target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem =
(acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use =
Cases</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;Robert, I believe the =
original intention was related to having the data plane converge quickly =
when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active =
ABR to the Backup =
ABR.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>I do not buy this use case. Flooding =
within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same info. As =
mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any routing =
or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with =
min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a =
design.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; Agreed.&nbsp; The =
point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the component =
prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still =
forwarded to the ABR and dropped.&nbsp; The other more important use =
case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned =
and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing =
half the component prefixes.&nbsp; So since the ABR will by default =
advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary =
is still advertised.&nbsp; So this use case is severely impacting as now =
you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs =
and you drop half your traffic.&nbsp; So now with PUA the problem is =
fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that =
has the component prefixes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Please present us a picture indicating =
before and after ABRs =
behaviour.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; will =
do&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;However PUA can be used in =
the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a link or =
node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for the =
backup path so the active =
path.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>If there is no area segmentation then =
there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first place =
?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; Sorry I am =
stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a link or =
node goes down to improve data plane =
convergence.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>With the IGP tuned with BFD fast =
detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA =
for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into =
sub second.&nbsp; So for Intra area convergence with all the =
optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane =
will converge with =
PUA.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Even without any of the above listed =
chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area without =
PUAs.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; Agreed which is =
why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could figure out how =
PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of =
PUA.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thx,<br>R.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
7.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:5=
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "'Gyan Mishra'" <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "'lsr'" <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 16:42:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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From nobody Wed Nov 18 09:49:26 2020
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Area Proxy for IS-IS
        Authors         : Tony Li
                          Sarah Chen
                          Vivek Ilangovan
                          Gyan S. Mishra
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-05.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2020-11-18

Abstract:
   Link state routing protocols have hierarchical abstraction already
   built into them.  However, when lower levels are used for transit,
   they must expose their internal topologies to each other, leading to
   scale issues.

   To avoid this, this document discusses extensions to the IS-IS
   routing protocol that would allow level 1 areas to provide transit,
   yet only inject an abstraction of the level 1 topology into level 2.
   Each level 1 area is represented as a single level 2 node, thereby
   enabling greater scale.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-isis-area-proxy-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 20:20:48 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Hannes Gredler" <hannes@gredler.at>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 21:44:36 +0000
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Yingzhen Qu'" <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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Hi, Yingzhen:

=20

Please see whether the replies below inline can solve your concerns or =
not.

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Yingzhen =
Qu
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:57 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' =
<acee@cisco.com>
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Hi Aijun,

=20

[WAJ] In your 109 meeting presentation =
slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-00 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fslides-109-lsr-5-ospf-tran=
sport-instance-00&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b4=
19b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637=
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R9rtiAHmI3de%2BfL83QkaU%3D&reserved=3D0> , you mentioned also the =
similar information that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I =
think this is the direction and we can prepare for it in advance. =
Putting such non-routing information in one independent TLV can =
certainly keep the stability of IGP protocol.=20

=20

Just to respond this comment here. The purpose of OSPF transport =
instance is to carry non-routing information for applications without =
impacting routing calculation and convergence. When you say =
=E2=80=9Cthis is the direction=E2=80=9D, do you mean using OSPF =
transport instance to carry application data or to use base OSPF =
instance?=20

[WAJ] use base OSPF instance is better. I think the reason to advertise =
the server info via IGP protocol is to let the router select the right =
path to server.=20

=20

Also how putting such non-routing information in one independent TLV can =
keep the stability of IGP protocol?

[WAJ] The router can easily recognize such info when it do SPF =
calculation, skip some steps(for example, topology calculation) then.

And, considering the interface that connects the server to the router is =
always passive, would you like to put these info into Stub-Link TLV that =
defined in the passive interface draft?

=20

Depending on the application, this kind of information may need to be =
updated very often, for example CPU usage, and this will certainly have =
some impacts. Especially when there more applications and each of them =
needs to be updated at different intervals and frequencies.

[WAJ] They should all meet the minimum threshold, as also mentioned in =
Acee=E2=80=99s presentation file.

=20

Thanks,

Yingzhen

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > on =
behalf of Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:06 PM
To: "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
Resent-From: <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com <mailto:yingzhen.qu@huawei.com> >
Resent-Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:06 PM

=20

Hi, Acee:

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:39 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:27 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: RE: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Hi, Acee:

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
<lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> =
>
Cc: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

=20

Speaking as WG member and longtime steward  of the IGPs:

=20

Hi Aijun,=20

=20

My opinion is that we should not overload the base IGP topology =
advertisements with everyone's favorite obscure use case. Hence, I think =
it would be a big mistake to add this stub link TLV to the base LSAs.=20

[WAJ] Putting the information in other regular TLVs, or putting them in =
LSA of one independent IGP instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will =
be more expensive. Do you agree this statement?

=20

No =E2=80=93 bloating the primary LSAs with non-routing information will =
be more expensive due to the dynamics of LSA origination and route =
computation.=20

[WAJ] what=E2=80=99s your recommendation then? The router can skip such =
information when they do SPF calculation, just need only add the =
information to the attached leaf router when the computation is =
completed. The LSA update is periodic and event driven. Advertising such =
information in a controlled manner does not deteriorate the flooding =
status.=20

=20

Rather, exactly what problem are you trying to solve? Previously, you =
were trying to associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix =
and making some inference related to an inter-AS boundary (this was not =
entirely clear). What problem are you trying to solve? Precisely, what =
do you want the controller to learn (i.e., address or interface index) =
and what is it going to do with it.

[WAJ] Passive Interfaces are already deployed within the network in many =
places, as stated in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06%23section-1&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b41=
9b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C6374=
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JSqPMchOtbLk%2BlaVpctc%3D&reserved=3D0> . What we want to know, is the =
position of passive interface. Previously, we want piggyback such =
information within its associated prefix, but after discussion on the =
mail list, define one new TLV to contain it and other future information =
may be more acceptable and extensible.

=20

And how do identify and even define the position of the passive =
interface?=20

[WAJ] Passive interface be certainly attached the router that advertises =
the associated stub-link TLV. =20

=20

As I stated previously, passive interfaces are not standardized.=20

[WAJ] if you mentioned just the term, we can change it later. Or if so, =
what=E2=80=99s other term do you recommend then?

=20

Knowing these information, the controller can learn the inter-as links =
via some methods that we have discussed in another thread, can know the =
boundary of network, can learn the link characteristic that associated =
with server etc. We have also mentioned it in the =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06%23section-1&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b41=
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JSqPMchOtbLk%2BlaVpctc%3D&reserved=3D0>  and think it is not appropriate =
to expand it intensely in one LSR draft.

=20

I disagree. Precisely define your use case.=20

[WAJ] which part of the introduction section is not clear enough? There =
are about 3 possible use cases of such information, aren=E2=80=99t they =
enough?

And, we have described one use case in detail in previous version of =
this draft draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04#section-3 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool=
s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04%23secti=
on-3&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b0=
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wrJfWg8M%3D&reserved=3D0> . If necessary, we can add it back again in =
the next version. This is just one use case, you can also refer to =
draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool=
s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01&data=3D0=
4%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7=
C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637412800103022360%7CUnknown%=
7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI=
6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3DeKg%2FQ3txyEnu91eOjVUsRnLLQOyYlomuDI1s9%2FeMHEE%3D=
&reserved=3D0>  for the detail of another use case. =20

=20

=20

=20

Please don't try and solve the CFN problem as the requirements are not =
clear (anycast, unicast, impact on routing, scope, etc).=20

[WAJ] In your 109 meeting presentation =
slides-109-lsr-5-ospf-transport-instance-00 =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fslides-109-lsr-5-ospf-tran=
sport-instance-00&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b4=
19b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637=
412800103032356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM=
zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=3DQfOxriK5LaSR%2Fj5z1H8pF9=
R9rtiAHmI3de%2BfL83QkaU%3D&reserved=3D0> , you mentioned also the =
similar information that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I =
think this is the direction and we can prepare for it in advance. =
Putting such non-routing information in one independent TLV can =
certainly keep the stability of IGP protocol.=20

=20

This was just an example of something that could be offloaded to a =
separate instance in the slides. It is not a specification.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

On 11/17/20, 1:08 AM, " =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang> =
wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn on behalf of Aijun Wang" < =
<mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wrote:

=20

    Hi, Acee:

=20

    As discussed on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated =
the draft to reflect the comments from the LSR community.

    Please see whether you have still other concerns or not and if there =
is no further comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption =
call then?

    Thanks you and Peter for your intense discussions for this draft.

=20

    Thanks in advance.

=20

    Best Regards

=20

    Aijun Wang

    China Telecom

=20

    > -----Original Message-----

    > From:  <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org =
< <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> internet-drafts@ietf.org>

    > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:44 AM

    > To: Zhibo Hu < <mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com> huzhibo@huawei.com>; =
Aijun Wang

    > < <mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn> wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn>; Gyan =
S. Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>;

    > Gyan Mishra < <mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com> =
gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>

    > Subject: New Version Notification for

    > draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    >=20

    >=20

    > A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt

    > has been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the =
IETF

    > repository.

    >=20

    > Name:           draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute

    > Revision:       06

    > Title:              Passive Interface Attribute

    > Document date:   2020-11-15

    > Group:          Individual Submission

    > Pages:           10

    > URL:

    >  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.t=
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Li%2F4c6O4sLB7EI%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e-06.t

    > xt

    > Status:

    >  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute%2F&da=
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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te/

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdata=
tracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
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tribut

    > e

    > Htmlized:

    >  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftool=
s.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06&data=3D=
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https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06=


    > Diff:

    >  =
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06=
&data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88=
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voQ8%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attr=
ibute-06

    >=20

    > Abstract:

    >    This document describes the mechanism that can be used to

    >    differentiate the passive interfaces from the normal interfaces

    >    within ISIS or OSPF domain.

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    >=20

    > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission

    > until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

    >=20

    > The IETF Secretariat

    >=20

=20

=20

=20

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

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wei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
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ThFJeRUtIQ464b8WWrRZA2p0lzBUD6BT9S7EA%3D&reserved=3D0> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, =
Yingzhen:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Please see =
whether the replies below inline can solve your concerns or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>China Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd;text-align:left'><=
b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Yingzhen Qu<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:57 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> 'lsr' =
&lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] New Version =
Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd;text-align:left'><=
span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>[WAJ] In your 109 =
meeting presentation <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fslides-109-lsr-5-os=
pf-transport-instance-00&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com=
%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C1%7C637412800103032356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC=
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DQfOxriK5L=
aSR%2Fj5z1H8pF9R9rtiAHmI3de%2BfL83QkaU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">slides-109-ls=
r-5-ospf-transport-instance-00</a>, you mentioned also the similar =
information that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think =
this is the direction and we can prepare for it in advance. Putting such =
non-routing information in one independent TLV can certainly keep the =
stability of IGP protocol. </span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Just to =
respond this comment here. The purpose of OSPF transport instance is to =
carry non-routing information for applications without impacting routing =
calculation and convergence. When you say =E2=80=9Cthis is the =
direction=E2=80=9D, do you mean using OSPF transport instance to carry =
application data or to use base OSPF instance? <span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] use base OSPF instance is better. I think =
the reason to advertise the server info via IGP protocol is to let the =
router select the right path to server. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Also how =
putting such non-routing information in one independent TLV can keep the =
stability of IGP protocol?<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] The router can easily recognize such info =
when it do SPF calculation, skip some steps(for example, topology =
calculation) then.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>And, considering the interface that connects the =
server to the router is always passive, would you like to put these info =
into Stub-Link TLV that defined in the passive interface =
draft?<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Depending =
on the application, this kind of information may need to be updated very =
often, for example CPU usage, and this will certainly have some impacts. =
Especially when there more applications and each of them needs to be =
updated at different intervals and frequencies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt'><b><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] They should all meet the minimum =
threshold, as also mentioned in Acee=E2=80=99s presentation =
file.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Yingzhen<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Lsr =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
on behalf of Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:06 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>&quot;'Acee Lindem (acee)'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<br><b>Resent-From: =
</b>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:yingzhen.qu@huawei.com">yingzhen.qu@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Resent-Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 11:06 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, Acee:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:2.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd;text-align:left'><=
b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc:</b> 'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:27 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: =
</b>'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
[Lsr] New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; On =
Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)<br>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:47 =
AM<br>To: Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn">wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</a>&gt;<b=
r>Cc: 'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>Subject: Re: [Lsr] =
New Version Notification for =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Speaking as WG =
member and longtime steward&nbsp; of the IGPs:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Hi Aijun, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>My opinion is =
that we should not overload the base IGP topology advertisements with =
everyone's favorite obscure use case. Hence, I think it would be a big =
mistake to add this stub link TLV to the base LSAs. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>[WAJ] Putting the =
information in other regular TLVs, or putting them in LSA of one =
independent IGP instance(as you proposed in 109 meeting) will be more =
expensive. Do you agree this statement?</span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
</i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>No =E2=80=93 =
bloating the primary LSAs with non-routing information will be more =
expensive due to the dynamics of LSA origination and route computation. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] what</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s your =
recommendation then? The router can skip such information when they do =
SPF calculation, just need only add the information to the attached leaf =
router when the computation is completed. The LSA update is periodic and =
event driven. Advertising such information in a controlled manner does =
not deteriorate the flooding status. </span></span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Rather, exactly =
what problem are you trying to solve? Previously, you were trying to =
associate the passive interface attribute with a prefix and making some =
inference related to an inter-AS boundary (this was not entirely clear). =
What problem are you trying to solve? Precisely, what do you want the =
controller to learn (i.e., address or interface index) and what is it =
going to do with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>[WAJ]</span></i></=
b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> <b><i>Passive =
Interfaces are already deployed within the network in many places, as =
stated in the </i></b><a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06%23section-1&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%=
7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C1%7C637412800103012366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ=
QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3D%2FGMZ9tt7=
BYH1IEsO3zbkxvWJSqPMchOtbLk%2BlaVpctc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-wang-lsr=
-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1</a>. <b><i>What we want to =
know, is the position of passive interface. Previously, we want =
piggyback such information within its associated prefix, but after =
discussion on the mail list, define one new TLV to contain it and other =
future information may be more acceptable and =
extensible.</i></b></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
</i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>And how do =
identify and even define the position of the passive interface? =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] Passive interface be =
certainly attached the router that advertises the associated stub-link =
TLV.&nbsp; </span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>As I stated =
previously, passive interfaces are not standardized. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] if you mentioned just the =
term, we can change it later. Or if so, what</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s other term do you =
recommend then?</span></span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
</i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>Knowing these =
information, the controller can learn the inter-as links via some =
methods that we have discussed in another thread, can know the boundary =
of network, can learn the link characteristic that associated with =
server etc. We have also mentioned it in the</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'> <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06%23section-1&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%=
7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1=
%7C1%7C637412800103012366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ=
QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3D%2FGMZ9tt7=
BYH1IEsO3zbkxvWJSqPMchOtbLk%2BlaVpctc%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-wang-lsr=
-passive-interface-attribute-06#section-1</a><b><i> and think it is not =
appropriate to expand it intensely in one LSR draft.</i></b></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
</i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I disagree. =
Precisely define your use case. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>[WAJ] which part of the =
introduction section is not clear enough? There are about 3 possible use =
cases of such information, aren</span><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>t they =
enough?</span></span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>And, we have described one use case =
in detail in previous version of this draft <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-04%=
23section-3&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419=
b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C63741=
2800103022360%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI=
iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DHs5TOmOm%2BxV8hrQA6HFz=
hUB9KE185Jl9GfNwrJfWg8M%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-wang-lsr-passive-inter=
face-attribute-04#section-3</a>. If necessary, we can add it back again =
in the next version. This is just one use case, you can also refer to <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext-01&a=
mp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d=
88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637412800103022360=
%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h=
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DeKg%2FQ3txyEnu91eOjVUsRnLLQOyYlomuD=
I1s9%2FeMHEE%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-e=
xt-01</a> for the detail of another use case.&nbsp; </span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span></i></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Please don't try =
and solve the CFN problem as the requirements are not clear (anycast, =
unicast, impact on routing, scope, etc). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>[WAJ] In your 109 =
meeting presentation <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F109%2Fmaterials%2Fslides-109-lsr-5-os=
pf-transport-instance-00&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com=
%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C=
1%7C1%7C637412800103032356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC=
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&amp;sdata=3DQfOxriK5L=
aSR%2Fj5z1H8pF9R9rtiAHmI3de%2BfL83QkaU%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">slides-109-ls=
r-5-ospf-transport-instance-00</a>, you mentioned also the similar =
information that should be transferred via the OSPF protocol. I think =
this is the direction and we can prepare for it in advance. Putting such =
non-routing information in one independent TLV can certainly keep the =
stability of IGP protocol. </span></i></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>This was =
just an example of something that could be offloaded to a separate =
instance in the slides. It is not a specification. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;</span>=
<span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:42.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.0gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Acee</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><b><i><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></i><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><span=
 lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>On 11/17/20, =
1:08 AM, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn%20on%20behalf%20of%20Aijun%20Wang"=
><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn =
on behalf of Aijun Wang</span></a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, =
Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As =
discussed on the list and during the 109 meeting, we have updated the =
draft to reflect the comments from the LSR =
community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Please see =
whether you have still other concerns or not and if there is no further =
comments on this direction, can we begin the WG adoption call =
then?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks you =
and Peter for your intense discussions for this =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks in =
advance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Best =
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; China =
Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; From: =
<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent: =
Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; To: =
Zhibo Hu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:huzhibo@huawei.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>huzhibo@huawei.com</span>=
</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn</=
span></a>&gt;; Gyan S. Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Gyan =
Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Subject: New Version Notification for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
A new version of I-D, =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; has =
been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the =
IETF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
repository.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 06<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Passive Interface Attribute<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Document date:&nbsp;&nbsp; 2020-11-15<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual =
Submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
10<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
URL:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Farchive%2Fid%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribu=
te-06.t&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340=
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VnPD%2Bb%2BsCqNLi%2F4c6O4sLB7EI%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/arch=
ive/id/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.t</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
xt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Status:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut=
e%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbd=
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style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute/</span></a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribut&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340=
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style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribut</span></a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
e<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06&=
amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340fbde8b08=
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ESfFtjWKKn1M8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
Diff:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attri=
bute-06&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Cyingzhen.qu%40futurewei.com%7C0aefa9b419b340=
fbde8b08d88b908316%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637412800=
103052350%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ=
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YbEJltR%2FQIoWPvoQ8%3D&amp;reserved=3D0"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/rfcd=
iff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</span></a><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes the mechanism that can be =
used to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; differentiate the passive interfaces from the =
normal interfaces<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; within ISIS or OSPF =
domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; until =
the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; =
The IETF Secretariat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
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 class=3DMsoPlainText =
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style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:7.43gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>______________________________=
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>, "'Robert Raszuk'" <robert@raszuk.net>, "'Jeff Tantsura'" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/nRYMJWsd9en2XEdoGE4lyL4-P8I>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Acee:

=20

OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria.=20

And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we are =
also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors to =
refine the solutions for more scenarios.

=20

Thanks in advance.

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

=20

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>=20
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Robert Raszuk' =
<robert@raszuk.net>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>; 'Acee =
Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

Speaking as WG Co-Chair:

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> >, Jeff =
Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >
Cc: 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com> =
>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, 'lsr' =
<lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" =
<acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

Hi, Robert:

=20

The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions =
based on the PUA can be different in different situation.=20

We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios =
after its WG adoption?

=20

There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use =
case(s) and viable actions.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> >=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >
Cc: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com <mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com> >; =
Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >; lsr =
<lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >; Aijun Wang =
<wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >; Acee =
Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

Jeff,

=20

Please notice that WAN is not an IX.=20

=20

While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants =
each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the =
same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between =
IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs =
distributed globally is often 100-200 ms.=20

=20

Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That =
means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE) =
you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense =
timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower =
will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=20

=20

Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any =
interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences =
then waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result =
in cascading effects to the applications itself.=20

=20

So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup =
the BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that =
direction.=20

=20

With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as =
experimental for some time. As each network is different what is optimal =
solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other. =


=20

Many thx,

Robert

=20

=20

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com =
<mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote:

We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's =
(there=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop =
extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working =
prototype in previous life).=20

Very simple logic:

Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, =
walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish =
(S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the =
next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers =
reasonable to prevent false positives.

State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service) only
High degree of automation
No IGP pollution=20

=20

Cheers,=20

Jeff

On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com =
<mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, wrote:



Speaking as WG member:

=20

I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence =
use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here =
although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve =
this problem.

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > on =
behalf of Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com =
<mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com> >
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net <mailto:robert@raszuk.net> >
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >, Jeff Tantsura =
<jefftant.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> >, Aijun Wang =
<wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >, "Acee =
Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org =
<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases

=20

=20

=20

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net =
<mailto:robert@raszuk.net> > wrote:

=20

=20

   Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the =
data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so =
traffic converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=20

=20

I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that =
both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no =
practical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR =
to use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is =
a worst patch ever to work around such a design.=20

=20

   Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to =
track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and =
traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more =
important use case is when links are down within the area and the area =
is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other =
ABR is missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by =
default advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the =
summary is still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as =
now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two =
ABRs and you drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is =
fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that =
has the component prefixes.

=20

Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=20

=20

     Gyan> will do=20

=20

   However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a =
single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly =
by sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.=20

=20

If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are =
we missing in the first place ?=20

=20

    Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra =
area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane =
convergence.

=20

=20

With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA =
& RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks =
the convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence =
with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the =
data plane will converge with PUA.

=20

Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will =
generally work well intra-area without PUAs.=20

=20

    Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case =
if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major =
benefit of PUA.

=20

Thx,
R.

=20

=20

--

 <http://www.verizon.com/> <>

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=20

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=20
Silver Spring, MD

=20


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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>O=
K, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
nd, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we are =
also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors to =
refine the solutions for more scenarios.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
hanks in advance.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, =
2020 12:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang =
&lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; 'Robert Raszuk' =
&lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt;; 'Jeff Tantsura' =
&lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Gyan Mishra' =
&lt;hayabusagsm@gmail.com&gt;; 'lsr' &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;; 'Acee Lindem =
(acee)' &lt;acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use =
Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Speaking as =
WG Co-Chair:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM<br><b>To: =
</b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Cc: </b>'Gyan Mishra' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, 'lsr' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;'Acee Lindem =
(acee)'&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable =
Announcement Use Cases<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Robert:</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions =
based on the PUA can be different in different situation. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
e can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios =
after its WG adoption?</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>There will =
be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use case(s) and =
viable actions. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thanks,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Acee<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; =
Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar=
c.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable =
Announcement Use Cases</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Please notice that WAN is not an =
IX.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP =
participants each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so =
to map the same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT =
between IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between =
PEs distributed globally is often 100-200 =
ms.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the =
world. That means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present =
on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to =
make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. =
Anything slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be =
faster.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued =
at any interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in =
consequences then waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns =
often result in cascading effects to the applications =
itself.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which =
address to setup&nbsp;the BFD session. It is much more about operational =
aspects of going that =
direction.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it =
as experimental for some time. As each network is different what is =
optimal solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for =
the other.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Many thx,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Robert<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div name=3DmessageBodySection><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have been discussing for quite some time and in =
different wg's (there</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s IX with RS use =
case) BFD verification based on next-hop extraction, Robert - you should =
know. (also built a well working prototype in previous =
life).&nbsp;<br><br>Very simple logic:<br><br>Upon route import (BGP =
update received and imported), extract next-hop, walk BFD session table, =
if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD session =
(Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, =
associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to =
prevent false positives.<br><br>State is limited to =
PE</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s importing each others routes =
(sharing a service) only<br>High degree of automation<br>No IGP =
pollution&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageSignatureSection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Cheers, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div =
name=3DmessageReplySection><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:78.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>On =
Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-=
bottom:3.75pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Speaking as WG =
member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>I think it would be good to hone in on =
the BGP PE failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems =
there is some interest here although I</span>=E2=80=99<span =
lang=3DEN-US>m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this =
problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7=
8.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin-=
left:6.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> <span =
style=3D'color:black'>Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> Tuesday, =
November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, =
Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" =
target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem =
(acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use =
Cases</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" =
target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;Robert, I believe the =
original intention was related to having the data plane converge quickly =
when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active =
ABR to the Backup =
ABR.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>I do not buy this use case. Flooding =
within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same info. As =
mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any routing =
or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with =
min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a =
design.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; Agreed.&nbsp; The =
point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the component =
prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still =
forwarded to the ABR and dropped.&nbsp; The other more important use =
case is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned =
and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing =
half the component prefixes.&nbsp; So since the ABR will by default =
advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary =
is still advertised.&nbsp; So this use case is severely impacting as now =
you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs =
and you drop half your traffic.&nbsp; So now with PUA the problem is =
fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that =
has the component prefixes.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Please present us a picture indicating =
before and after ABRs =
behaviour.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; will =
do&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp;However PUA can be used in =
the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a link or =
node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for the =
backup path so the active =
path.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>If there is no area segmentation then =
there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first place =
?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; Sorry I am =
stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a link or =
node goes down to improve data plane =
convergence.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>With the IGP tuned with BFD fast =
detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA =
for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into =
sub second.&nbsp; So for Intra area convergence with all the =
optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane =
will converge with =
PUA.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>Even without any of the above listed =
chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-area without =
PUAs.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; Agreed which is =
why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could figure out how =
PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of =
PUA.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thx,<br>R.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><p =
style=3D'margin-left:114.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#222222'><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" =
target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'color:#1155CC;border:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none'>&lt;&gt;</span></a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:114.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:9.5gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gyan =
Mishra</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:114.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:9.5gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'>Network Solutions =
Architect&nbsp;</span></i><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;marg=
in-left:114.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;mso-para-m=
argin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:9.5gd;mso=
-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:black'>M 301 =
502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br></span></i><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Silver Spring, MD</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1=
14.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-para-margin=
-left:9.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_00D5_01D6BE60.002A5340--



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From: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06.txt
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 08:46:09 +0000
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References: <160539745568.19790.10758399794139845841@ietfa.amsl.com> <016a01d6bca7$f8753700$e95fa500$@chinatelecom.cn> <F9DA273B-3386-4C26-ADDB-527394C22156@cisco.com> <00fa01d6bd52$3daacce0$b90066a0$@tsinghua.org.cn> <2DF4A6D0-E410-4652-977C-258A0D2950D5@cisco.com> <018101d6bd79$41038310$c30a8930$@tsinghua.org.cn> <F390C1C7-BD48-4169-AF0F-1C7A2D3DD40B@futurewei.com> <00ca01d6be1b$8c34bff0$a49e3fd0$@tsinghua.org.cn>
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In-Reply-To: <00d401d6be1c$f2027f60$d6077e20$@tsinghua.org.cn>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 21:27:57 -0500
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/CfRmQ0ZJJHCGcCYGb3aLIdXY8aw>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Aijun

I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simple=
.  We
need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data plane
convergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.

I have two simple solutions to start that I will update the presentation
with to start and present to the WG and we can go from there.

1.  BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data
plane

2.  Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane convergence
to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes.

I will send out tomorrow.

Thanks

Gyan

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
wrote:

> Hi, Acee:
>
>
>
> OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria.
>
> And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we are
> also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors to
> refine the solutions for more scenarios.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM
> *To:* Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Robert Raszuk' <
> robert@raszuk.net>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>; 'Acee
> Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
> Speaking as WG Co-Chair:
>
>
>
> *From: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM
> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Jeff Tantsura <
> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>=
,
> 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <
> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject: *RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
> Hi, Robert:
>
>
>
> The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions
> based on the PUA can be different in different situation.
>
> We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios afte=
r
> its WG adoption?
>
>
>
> There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use
> case(s) and viable actions.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards
>
>
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
> *To:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <
> acee@cisco.com>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.c=
n>;
> Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
>
>
> Please notice that WAN is not an IX.
>
>
>
> While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants
> each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the sa=
me
> over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP
> participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distribut=
ed
> globally is often 100-200 ms.
>
>
>
> Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That
> means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE)
> you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense time=
r
> needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will
> defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.
>
>
>
> Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interfac=
e
> meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting f=
or
> BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effec=
ts
> to the applications itself.
>
>
>
> So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup the
> BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that
> direction.
>
>
>
> With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as experimenta=
l
> for some time. As each network is different what is optimal solution for
> one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other.
>
>
>
> Many thx,
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (there=
=E2=80=99s
> IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extraction, Rober=
t
> - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in previous life)=
.
>
> Very simple logic:
>
> Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop,
> walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish
> (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the
> next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers
> reasonable to prevent false positives.
>
> State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a =
service)
> only
> High degree of automation
> No IGP pollution
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>,
> wrote:
>
> Speaking as WG member:
>
>
>
> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence use
> case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here althoug=
h I
> =E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this problem=
.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
> *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
> *Cc:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun
> Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the dat=
a
> plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic
> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>
>
>
> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practic=
al
> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If
> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pat=
ch
> ever to work around such a design.
>
>
>
>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to trac=
k
> the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is
> still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use cas=
e
> is when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so
> one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the
> component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summa=
ry
> as long as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So
> this use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the
> other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your
> traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and no=
w
> traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.
>
>
>
> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>
>
>
>      Gyan> will do
>
>
>
>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly =
by
> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>
>
>
> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
> we missing in the first place ?
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area
> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>
>
>
>
>
> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA =
&
> RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the
> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
> plane will converge with PUA.
>
>
>
> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>
>
>
>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
> benefit of PUA.
>
>
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> <> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD=
?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
> Spring, MD
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD=
?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>
>
>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000006030cc05b48098f0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Aijun=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s =
keep it really simple.=C2=A0 We need a solid use case to move the ball forw=
ard were the PUA data plane convergence capabilities can fills a gap that e=
xists today.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I hav=
e two simple solutions to start that I will update the presentation with to=
 start and present to the WG and we can go from there.</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.=C2=A0 BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH compo=
nent prefix to converge the data plane</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">2.=C2=A0 Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for dat=
a plane convergence to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes. =C2=
=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will send out tomo=
rrow.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020=
 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wan=
gaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_80184=
23124333540378WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Hi, Ac=
ee:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">OK, we w=
ill try to improve this document to meet this criteria. <u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">And, as this topic has been =
discussed intensely on the mail list, we are also eager to invite more inte=
rested experts to join us as co-authors to refine the solutions for more sc=
enarios.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Than=
ks in advance.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=
=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_8018423124333540378WordSection1"=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideogra=
ph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=
=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Best Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#=
1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text=
-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Aijun Wang<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;t=
ext-justify:inter-ideograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt=
;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">China Telecom<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:i=
nter-ideograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div =
style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0=
cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">=
From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:a=
cee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Th=
ursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.=
cn</a>&gt;; &#39;Robert Raszuk&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net=
" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;; &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> &#39;Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; &#=
39;lsr&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;; &#39;Acee Lindem (acee)&#39; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt=
;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:21.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Speaking as WG Co-C=
hair:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:2=
1.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border:=
none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"co=
lor:black">From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Aiju=
n Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">w=
angaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 18, 20=
20 at 3:05 AM<br><b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@rasz=
uk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&#39;Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hay=
abusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Acee L=
indem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.co=
m</a>&gt;, &#39;lsr&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;&#39;Acee Lindem (acee)&#39;&quot; &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D4=
0cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unrea=
chable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Hi, Robert:</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;co=
lor:#1f497d">The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, t=
he actions based on the PUA can be different in different situation. </span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">We can discuss and describe the a=
ctions based on different scenarios after its WG adoption?</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:21.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">There will be no adoption call until th=
ere is a coherent draft with use case(s) and viable actions. <u></u><u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:21.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Acee<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f49=
7d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:57.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color=
:#1f497d">Best Regards</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt;text-align:justify;text-=
justify:inter-ideograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0=
pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">Aijun=
 Wang</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ide=
ograph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=
=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1f497d">China Telecom</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57.0pt"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;c=
olor:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:<=
/span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszu=
k.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesd=
ay, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; l=
sr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;; Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_=
blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco=
.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable=
 Announcement Use Cases</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff,<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please notice that WAN is not an IX.=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Wh=
ile you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants each =
bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the same over=
 global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP participan=
ts in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distributed globally =
is often 100-200 ms.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0=
pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all =
over the world. That means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN p=
resent on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this t=
o make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anyth=
ing slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Then=
 we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interface melt=
downs may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting for BGP=
 service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effects to=
 the applications itself.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So this is not at all about autodiscovery wit=
h which address to setup=C2=A0the BFD session. It is much more about operat=
ional aspects of going that direction.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With that I am supportive of t=
his work even if we label it as experimental for some time. As each network=
 is different what is optimal solution for one design and deployment may no=
t be optimal for the other.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Many thx,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
Robert<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></di=
v></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 A=
M Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt"><div><div name=3D"messageBodySection"><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have been discuss=
ing for quite some time and in different wg&#39;s (there</span>=E2=80=99<sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US">s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop=
 extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working prototype=
 in previous life).=C2=A0<br><br>Very simple logic:<br><br>Upon route impor=
t (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, walk BFD session ta=
ble, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD session (Discrimi=
nators distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, associate fate of=
 all routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to prevent false posit=
ives.<br><br>State is limited to PE</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">s i=
mporting each others routes (sharing a service) only<br>High degree of auto=
mation<br>No IGP pollution=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div n=
ame=3D"messageSignatureSection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <u=
></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.=
0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><d=
iv name=3D"messageReplySection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-righ=
t:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Nov =
17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, wrote:<br><br><u></u><u></=
u></span></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;marg=
in-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think it would be good to hone in=
 on the BGP PE failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seem=
s there is some interest here although I</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US=
">m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this problem.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78=
.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div style=3D"bor=
der:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <span style=3D"color=
:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><=
b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Rasz=
uk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk=
.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefft=
ant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aiju=
n Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">w=
angaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=
=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable =
Announcement Use Cases</span><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Rob=
ert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">rober=
t@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=
=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;m=
argin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p></div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.=
0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-rig=
ht:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe th=
e original intention was related to having the data plane converge quickly =
when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active AB=
R to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not buy this use c=
ase. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same=
 info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any =
routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected=
 with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a=
 design.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=C2=
=A0 The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the component =
prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is still forwarded=
 to the ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important use case is when li=
nks are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so one ABR has=
 all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the component pre=
fixes.=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise the summary as long=
 as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So thi=
s use case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other =
area for the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0=
 So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic i=
s only sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt=
;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:=
0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour=
.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; will do=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left=
:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top=
:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cc=
cccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;mar=
gin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA c=
an be used in the absence of area segmentation within a single area when a =
link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for th=
e backup path so the active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div=
></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0p=
t"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If there =
is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are we missing =
in the first place ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; =
Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a =
link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0=
pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-righ=
t:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:non=
e;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8=
pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Wit=
h the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp;=
 RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the co=
nvergence is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intra area convergence with=
 all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data pla=
ne will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Even without any of the=
 above listed chain of acronymous things will generally work well intra-are=
a without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Agree=
d which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case if I could figure=
 out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefit of PUA.<u></u><=
u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #=
cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">Thx,<br>R.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:11=
4.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114.=
0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><p style=3D"margin-left:114.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><span style=3D"color:#1155cc;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm=
;text-decoration:none">&lt;&gt;</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></=
u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-l=
eft:114.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin=
-bottom:0cm;margin-left:114.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georgia&quot;,serif;color:black">Network Sol=
utions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:114.0pt;marg=
in-bottom:.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Georg=
ia&quot;,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br><a href=3D"https://www.google=
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=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></bloc=
kquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-s=
martmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
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quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p>=
<p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"=
georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A<=
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</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:=
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--0000000000006030cc05b48098f0--


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 11:06:00 +0800
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/3ncuMMfYoH7L1oejZKA2b8Hal0Y>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes(Responses for comments on "passive interface attribute" draft)
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HI, Acee:

=20

Thanks for the minutes, and also thanks for Yingzhen.=20

=20

Below are the responses for the comments regarding to =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06> , please see whether they address your concern or not.

For simplicity, I just summary the key points of the comments.

=E3=80=90Chris=E3=80=91: Why not using the existed TLV to solve the =
Inter-as use case?

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: For inter-AS use case, using =
the existed TLV has the constraints that described in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/

=20

=E3=80=90Chris=E3=80=91: Why not using prefix attributes to advertise =
application server=E2=80=99s information?

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: It is possible to advertise =
these information together with prefix. But when we want to describe the =
resources(for example, link bandwidth, link utilization ratio etc.) to =
the prefix, it is more reasonable to associated them to link attributes.

=20

On summary, considering the above two use case has the common =
characteristic, that is, the associated link is stub-link, we think that =
defines the stub-link TLV to contain the these information  is more =
extensible.

=20

=E3=80=90Acee=E3=80=91: Why not just advertise the link is the inter-AS =
boundary or other , and doesn=E2=80=99t need to infer this conclusion?=20

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: If necessary, we can add one =
flag field to indicate clearly the sub-type of the stub-link. But =
currently, they are all passive-interface, has no other distinguished =
differences.

The usage of such information, or the inferences method, may be =
different in different scenario. I think the standardization work should =
defines the fundamental common parts.

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 6:17 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes

=20

I have uploaded the minutes for the meeting on Monday morning. Thanks =
much to Yingzhen Qu for taking them. Please send me any additions or =
corrections to me.

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/

=20

Presenters and draft authors, please note that if more discussion is =
need on your draft then it is up to you to initiate such discussion.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
I, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
hanks for the minutes, and also thanks for Yingzhen. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
elow are the responses for the comments regarding to <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</a>, =
please see whether they address your concern or =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
or simplicity, I just summary the key points of the =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Chris</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not using the existed TLV to solve the Inter-as use =
case?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: For inter-AS use case, using the existed TLV has the =
constraints that described in <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SH=
nJ7A/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHn=
J7A/</a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Chris</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not using prefix attributes to advertise application server=E2=80=99s =
information?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: It is possible to advertise these information together =
with prefix. But when we want to describe the resources(for example, =
link bandwidth, link utilization ratio etc.) to the prefix, it is more =
reasonable to associated them to link =
attributes.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>O=
n summary, considering the above two use case has the common =
characteristic, that is, the associated link is stub-link, we think that =
defines the stub-link TLV to contain the these information =C2=A0is more =
extensible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Acee</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not just advertise the link is the inter-AS boundary or other , and =
doesn=E2=80=99t need to infer this conclusion? =
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: If necessary, we can add one flag field to indicate =
clearly the sub-type of the stub-link. But currently, they are all =
passive-interface, has no other distinguished =
differences.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he usage of such information, or the inferences method, may be different =
in different scenario. I think the standardization work should defines =
the fundamental common parts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
&lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, 2020 6:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting =
Minutes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I have uploaded the minutes for =
the meeting on Monday morning. Thanks much to Yingzhen Qu for taking =
them. Please send me any additions or corrections to =
me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Presenters and draft authors, =
please note that if more discussion is need on your draft then it is up =
to you to initiate such discussion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Lsr] Responses for comments on "passive interface attribute" draft
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 09:03:06 +0100
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To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/07NcrZqCDX4Lj9BrlAVabgWSY2Q>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Gyan,

I like and support your use case #1

For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine indeed an area which get's
partitioned such that ABR will loose connectivity to bunch of nodes. Does
this mean that now such ABR will be blasting globally perhaps 1000s of PUAs
? How would the ABR be able to send PUA summary provided some disconnected
POPs within area could be nicely summarized ? Isn't it better to design
your area such that ABRs are interconnected with redundancy ?

Thx,
R.



On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Aijun
>
> I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simp=
le.  We
> need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data plane
> convergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.
>
> I have two simple solutions to start that I will update the presentation
> with to start and present to the WG and we can go from there.
>
> 1.  BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data
> plane
>
> 2.  Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane convergenc=
e
> to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes.
>
> I will send out tomorrow.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gyan
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Acee:
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria.
>>
>> And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we are
>> also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors to
>> refine the solutions for more scenarios.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>>
>> China Telecom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM
>> *To:* Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Robert Raszuk' <
>> robert@raszuk.net>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>; 'Acee
>> Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>
>>
>>
>> Speaking as WG Co-Chair:
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM
>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Jeff Tantsura <
>> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com=
>,
>> 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <
>> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi, Robert:
>>
>>
>>
>> The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions
>> based on the PUA can be different in different situation.
>>
>> We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios
>> after its WG adoption?
>>
>>
>>
>> There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use
>> case(s) and viable actions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>>
>> China Telecom
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
>> *To:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <
>> acee@cisco.com>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang <
>> wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) <
>> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please notice that WAN is not an IX.
>>
>>
>>
>> While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants
>> each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the s=
ame
>> over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP
>> participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distribu=
ted
>> globally is often 100-200 ms.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That
>> means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE)
>> you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense tim=
er
>> needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will
>> defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any
>> interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences the=
n
>> waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in
>> cascading effects to the applications itself.
>>
>>
>>
>> So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup th=
e
>> BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that
>> direction.
>>
>>
>>
>> With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as
>> experimental for some time. As each network is different what is optimal
>> solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thx,
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (there=
=E2=80=99s
>> IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extraction, Robe=
rt
>> - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in previous life=
).
>>
>> Very simple logic:
>>
>> Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop,
>> walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish
>> (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the
>> next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers
>> reasonable to prevent false positives.
>>
>> State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a
>> service) only
>> High degree of automation
>> No IGP pollution
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>,
>> wrote:
>>
>> Speaking as WG member:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence us=
e
>> case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here althou=
gh I
>> =E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this proble=
m.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>> *Date:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>> *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>> *Cc:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun
>> Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traff=
ic
>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practi=
cal
>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. I=
f
>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst pa=
tch
>> ever to work around such a design.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to
>> track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and
>> traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more
>> important use case is when links are down within the area and the area i=
s
>> partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR =
is
>> missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default
>> advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary i=
s
>> still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as now you hav=
e
>> an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you
>> drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the PU=
A
>> is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component
>> prefixes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>>
>>
>>
>>      Gyan> will do
>>
>>
>>
>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly=
 by
>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are
>> we missing in the first place ?
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra are=
a
>> where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA
>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks th=
e
>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with
>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case
>> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
>> benefit of PUA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thx,
>> R.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> <> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+M=
D?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
>> Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+M=
D?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD
>
>

--000000000000e67ece05b4854664
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Gyan,<div><br></div><div>I like and support your use case =
#1=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine in=
deed an area which get&#39;s partitioned such that ABR will loose connectiv=
ity to bunch of nodes. Does this mean that now such ABR will be blasting gl=
obally perhaps 1000s of PUAs ? How would the ABR be able to send PUA summar=
y provided some disconnected POPs within area could be nicely summarized ? =
Isn&#39;t it better to design your area such that ABRs are interconnected w=
ith redundancy ?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></=
div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Aijun=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simpl=
e.=C2=A0 We need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA dat=
a plane convergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I have two simple solutio=
ns to start that I will update the presentation with to start and present t=
o the WG and we can go from there.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">1.=C2=A0 BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to conve=
rge the data plane</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.=C2=
=A0 Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane convergence =
to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will send out tomorrow.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun W=
ang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wang=
aijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Acee:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=
=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=
=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">OK, we will try to improve this document to=
 meet this criteria. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the m=
ail list, we are also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as=
 co-authors to refine the solutions for more scenarios.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks in advance.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=
=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best R=
egards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:j=
ustify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=
=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Aijun =
Wang<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:jus=
tify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=
=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">China Telecom<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125=
)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;bord=
er-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);paddi=
ng:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From=
:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibr=
i,sans-serif"> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 1=
9, 2020 12:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@t=
singhua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; &#39;R=
obert Raszuk&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank=
">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;; &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
br><b>Cc:</b> &#39;Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; &#39;lsr&#39; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; &#39;=
Acee Lindem (acee)&#39; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</=
b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
Calibri,sans-serif">Speaking as WG Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;borde=
r-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=
From: </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Aijun Wang &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@ts=
inghua.org.cn</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 =
AM<br><b>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" tar=
get=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc: </b>&#39;Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, =
&#39;lsr&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;, &quot;&#39;Acee Lindem (acee)&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@=
dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Anno=
uncement Use Cases<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=
=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Robert:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=
=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized,=
 the actions based on the PUA can be different in different situation. </sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We can discuss and describ=
e the actions based on different scenarios after its WG adoption?</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-seri=
f"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif">There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft w=
ith use case(s) and viable actions. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Acee<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,=
73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best=
 Regards</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">Aijun Wang</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">China Telecom</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@ra=
szuk.net</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><=
b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gma=
il.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</=
a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>=
Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff,=
<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:7=
8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please noti=
ce that WAN is not an IX.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:7=
8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions amon=
g all IXP participants each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 m=
s or so to map the same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing els=
e RTT between IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT betwe=
en PEs distributed globally is often 100-200 ms.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just imagine 1000 PEs in 1=
0 areas distributed all over the world. That means that in worst case scena=
rio (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD =
sessions. Now for this to make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x=
 or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw =
will be faster.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></=
span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued a=
t any interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences =
then waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in =
cascading effects to the applications itself.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So this is not at all about a=
utodiscovery with which address to setup=C2=A0the BFD session. It is much m=
ore about operational aspects of going that direction.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With that I am suppo=
rtive of this work even if we label it as experimental for some time. As ea=
ch network is different what is optimal solution for one design and deploym=
ent may not be optimal for the other.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Many thx,<u></u><u></u></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">Robert<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM=
 Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><=
blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bo=
rder-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm=
 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div name=3D"messageBodySection"><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have been discussing =
for quite some time and in different wg&#39;s (there</span>=E2=80=99<span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop ext=
raction, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in =
previous life).=C2=A0<br><br>Very simple logic:<br><br>Upon route import (B=
GP update received and imported), extract next-hop, walk BFD session table,=
 if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD session (Discriminato=
rs distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, associate fate of all=
 routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to prevent false positives=
.<br><br>State is limited to PE</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">s impor=
ting each others routes (sharing a service) only<br>High degree of automati=
on<br>No IGP pollution=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div name=
=3D"messageSignatureSection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78=
pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div name=3D=
"messageReplySection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;marg=
in-bottom:12pt;margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43=
 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, wrote:<br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin:3.75pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think it would be good to hone in on the =
BGP PE failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there =
is some interest here although I</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">m not =
convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border-right:none;b=
order-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);pa=
dding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"> <span style=3D"color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishr=
a &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusags=
m@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<b=
r><b>To:</b> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=
=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.=
cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem =
(acee)&quot; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr=
] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:=
36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockqu=
ote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-le=
ft:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.=
8pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;bo=
rder-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm=
 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe =
the original intention was related to having the data plane converge quickl=
y when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active =
ABR to the Backup ABR.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not buy this use cas=
e. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same i=
nfo. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making any ro=
uting or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected w=
ith min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a d=
esign.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"marg=
in-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=C2=A0 The=
 point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the component prefixe=
s and in case where component is down and traffic is still forwarded to the=
 ABR and dropped.=C2=A0 The other more important use case is when links are=
 down within the area and the area is partitioned and so one ABR has all co=
mponent prefixes however other ABR is missing half the component prefixes.=
=C2=A0 So since the ABR will by default advertise the summary as long as th=
eir is one component UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use =
case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area f=
or the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So no=
w with PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only=
 sent to the ABR that has the component prefixes.<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:n=
one;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5=
pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please=
 present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;bord=
er-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6=
pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></d=
iv><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:non=
e;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt=
 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:=
114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA can be used in the abs=
ence of area segmentation within a single area when a link or node fails to=
 converge the data plane quickly by sending PUA for the backup path so the =
active path.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If there is no area segmentation th=
en there is no summaries. So what are we missing in the first place ?=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Sorry I am stating that PUA fe=
ature can also be used intra area where if a link or node goes down to impr=
ove data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=
=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bott=
om:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;marg=
in:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detectio=
n on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local =
protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well into sub second.=C2=
=A0 So for Intra area convergence with all the optimizations mentioned I am=
 not sure how much faster the data plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things =
will generally work well intra-area without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop s=
elf use case if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a=
 major benefit of PUA.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"b=
order-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thx,<br>R.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style=3D"margin-left:114pt">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.ve=
rizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1p=
t solid windowtext;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none">&lt;&gt;</span></a></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:=
0cm;margin-left:114pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-=
left:114pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm=
;margin-left:114pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br><a href=3D"https:=
//www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3D=
gmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=C2=A0<br></=
span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.=
google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&=
amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></d=
iv></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div=
></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(1=
7,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img s=
rc=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"8=
1" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><br></p><p style=
=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,s=
ans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, seri=
f" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></=
p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br><=
/font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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References: <CAOj+MMH7zRaXNJTRC0ua7ohasUpo0MmeqgzcU9BdpcD7wD+Yrg@mail.gmail.com> <D477846E-1086-46A8-B2D6-E552623E2643@gmail.com> <016b01d6bca9$cf908c20$6eb1a460$@tsinghua.org.cn> <CAOj+MMEKbBU1mymU2RzWzwi6Se8ZwQ9OsCBn4NUiX3YAceLdoQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABNhwV1yS1KdPe0hYGOUhDBpqbNqZCaO=xNEr_LaRg35b=f55g@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMGnRkYrTcC45QEy+F5HNCoFn75r=1gn-+OT89Q53D_pYA@mail.gmail.com> <CABNhwV1pK5JX5sDcPyRKuR67eAkAq-q3wRmYqbsfCwOj0wWjSw@mail.gmail.com> <32DFCE3A-D41C-48CA-928A-37011D158AEF@cisco.com> <c646fecb-2d45-4ece-adc1-eb0635a58c3c@Spark> <CAOj+MMGrZz3pJfmP1gh+4YO6XfKr_NWe+QOy8mfjyqUxqub5kw@mail.gmail.com> <019901d6bd81$9565b5b0$c0312110$@tsinghua.org.cn> <2C21FE6C-4AC0-4949-ADE0-357DD7E18A87@cisco.com> <00d401d6be1c$f2027f60$d6077e20$@tsinghua.org.cn> <CABNhwV0vU_mvnh-c_RURGbXBSMtqBTS+sLGepnGx1u=vbBNm-w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMHqRUk9otv8btoZ9RkYE08Z2n3TFrArUQsoGih5jHz_UA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOj+MMHqRUk9otv8btoZ9RkYE08Z2n3TFrArUQsoGih5jHz_UA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 03:42:54 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV3BO3By4Y=ArpgM0coGtDbNvvysdw5f8q_xab1M0LsgLw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/r9gYMImTBeNM3bTPM9FEFEeqfVs>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Robert

Let me send it over graphical depiction as a picture is worth a thousand
words should be easy to see the concept.

Trying to keep as simple as possible.

Thanks

Gyan

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:03 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Gyan,
>
> I like and support your use case #1
>
> For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine indeed an area which get's
> partitioned such that ABR will loose connectivity to bunch of nodes. Does
> this mean that now such ABR will be blasting globally perhaps 1000s of PU=
As
> ? How would the ABR be able to send PUA summary provided some disconnecte=
d
> POPs within area could be nicely summarized ? Isn't it better to design
> your area such that ABRs are interconnected with redundancy ?
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
>>
>> Aijun
>>
>> I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really sim=
ple.  We
>> need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data plane
>> convergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.
>>
>> I have two simple solutions to start that I will update the presentation
>> with to start and present to the WG and we can go from there.
>>
>> 1.  BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data
>> plane
>>
>> 2.  Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane
>> convergence to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes.
>>
>> I will send out tomorrow.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gyan
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria.
>>>
>>> And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we ar=
e
>>> also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors t=
o
>>> refine the solutions for more scenarios.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>
>>> China Telecom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM
>>> *To:* Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Robert Raszuk' <
>>> robert@raszuk.net>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>;
>>> 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Speaking as WG Co-Chair:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>>> *Date: *Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM
>>> *To: *Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Jeff Tantsura <
>>> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc: *'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.co=
m>,
>>> 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <
>>> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: *RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi, Robert:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the action=
s
>>> based on the PUA can be different in different situation.
>>>
>>> We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios
>>> after its WG adoption?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use
>>> case(s) and viable actions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>
>>> China Telecom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
>>> *To:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <
>>> acee@cisco.com>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang <
>>> wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Lindem (acee) <
>>> acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please notice that WAN is not an IX.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants
>>> each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the =
same
>>> over global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP
>>> participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distrib=
uted
>>> globally is often 100-200 ms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That
>>> means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE=
)
>>> you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense ti=
mer
>>> needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will
>>> defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any
>>> interface meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences th=
en
>>> waiting for BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in
>>> cascading effects to the applications itself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to
>>> setup the BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of goi=
ng
>>> that direction.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as
>>> experimental for some time. As each network is different what is optima=
l
>>> solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for the other=
.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thx,
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (ther=
e
>>> =E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extr=
action,
>>> Robert - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in previ=
ous
>>> life).
>>>
>>> Very simple logic:
>>>
>>> Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop,
>>> walk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish
>>> (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the
>>> next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers
>>> reasonable to prevent false positives.
>>>
>>> State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing =
a
>>> service) only
>>> High degree of automation
>>> No IGP pollution
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>,
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Speaking as WG member:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence
>>> use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here
>>> although I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve =
this
>>> problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
>>> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
>>> *Date:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>>> *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>> *Cc:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,
>>> Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D
>>> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote=
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the
>>> data plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traf=
fic
>>> converges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that
>>> both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no pract=
ical
>>> use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. =
If
>>> your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst p=
atch
>>> ever to work around such a design.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to
>>> track the component prefixes and in case where component is down and
>>> traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more
>>> important use case is when links are down within the area and the area =
is
>>> partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR=
 is
>>> missing half the component prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default
>>> advertise the summary as long as their is one component UP the summary =
is
>>> still advertised.  So this use case is severely impacting as now you ha=
ve
>>> an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via the two ABRs and you
>>> drop half your traffic.  So now with PUA the problem is fixed and the P=
UA
>>> is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that has the component
>>> prefixes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      Gyan> will do
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a
>>> single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickl=
y by
>>> sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what ar=
e
>>> we missing in the first place ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra
>>> area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergenc=
e.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LF=
A
>>> & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks t=
he
>>> convergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence wit=
h
>>> all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data
>>> plane will converge with PUA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will
>>> generally work well intra-area without PUAs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use cas=
e
>>> if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major
>>> benefit of PUA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thx,
>>> R.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> <> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>>
>>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>>
>>> *Network Solutions Architect *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+=
MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+Silver+S=
pring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>*Silver
>>> Spring, MD
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+=
MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>>
>> *Gyan Mishra*
>>
>> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>>
>>
>>
>> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg> *Silver
>> Spring, MD
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+Silver+Sp=
ring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&source=3Dg>
>>
>> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div dir=3D"auto">Robert=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Let me send it over graphical depiction as a picture is worth a thou=
sand words should be easy to see the concept.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Trying to keep as simple as possible.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:03 AM Robert =
Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Gyan,<div><b=
r></div><div>I like and support your use case #1=C2=A0</div><div><br></div>=
<div>For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine indeed an area which get&#39;s =
partitioned such that ABR will loose connectivity to bunch of nodes. Does t=
his mean that now such ABR will be blasting globally perhaps 1000s of PUAs =
? How would the ABR be able to send PUA summary provided some disconnected =
POPs within area could be nicely summarized ? Isn&#39;t it better to design=
 your area such that ABRs are interconnected with redundancy ?=C2=A0</div><=
div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, No=
v 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Aijun=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I am thinki=
ng per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simple.=C2=A0 We =
need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data plane conv=
ergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.=C2=A0</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I have two simple solutions to start =
that I will update the presentation with to start and present to the WG and=
 we can go from there.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1=
.=C2=A0 BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data=
 plane</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.=C2=A0 Area par=
titioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane convergence to ABR that =
has reachability to component prefixes. =C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">I will send out tomorrow.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghu=
a.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">Hi, Acee:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;col=
or:rgb(31,73,125)">OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this cr=
iteria. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we =
are also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors t=
o refine the solutions for more scenarios.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks in advance.<u></u><u></=
u></span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best Regards<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;co=
lor:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Aijun Wang<u></u><u></=
u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">China Telecom<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Acee=
 Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee=
@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM<br=
><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" tar=
get=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; &#39;Robert Raszuk&#39; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net=
</a>&gt;; &#39;Jeff Tantsura&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> &#39;=
Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; &#39;lsr&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; &#39;Acee Lindem (acee)&=
#39; &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix=
 Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"=
>Speaking as WG Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-=
family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"bor=
der-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb=
(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:57pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">From: </span></b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:w=
angaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM<br><b>To: </b>Ro=
bert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robe=
rt@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&#=
39;Gyan Mishra&#39; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ac=
ee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &#39;lsr&#39; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;&#39;Acee Lindem (acee)&#39;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.c=
om@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<=
u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;colo=
r:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Robert:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73=
,125)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The trig=
ger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions based on t=
he PUA can be different in different situation. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=
=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We can discuss and describe the actions based on =
different scenarios after its WG adoption?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">There will b=
e no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use case(s) and via=
ble actions. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt=
;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-f=
amily:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:=
57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best Regards</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
0.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Aijun Wang</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">China =
Telecom</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:78pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; <br><b>S=
ent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ie=
tf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabu=
sagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lind=
em (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;; lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ls=
r@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org=
.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee=
) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Pr=
efix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff,<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please notice that WAN is not an IX.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants ea=
ch bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the same o=
ver global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP partici=
pants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distributed global=
ly is often 100-200 ms.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:7=
8pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all=
 over the world. That means that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN =
present on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this =
to make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anyt=
hing slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Then we=
 go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interface meltdow=
ns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting for BGP se=
rvice route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effects to th=
e applications itself.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u=
></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which=
 address to setup=C2=A0the BFD session. It is much more about operational a=
spects of going that direction.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With that I am supportive of this work even=
 if we label it as experimental for some time. As each network is different=
 what is optimal solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal =
for the other.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Many thx,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Robert<u></u><u></u=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"bord=
er-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(=
204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div na=
me=3D"messageBodySection"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:=
78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have been discussing for quite some time and =
in different wg&#39;s (there</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">s IX with =
RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extraction, Robert - you sh=
ould know. (also built a well working prototype in previous life).=C2=A0<br=
><br>Very simple logic:<br><br>Upon route import (BGP update received and i=
mported), extract next-hop, walk BFD session table, if no match (no existin=
g session) - establish (S)BFD session (Discriminators distribution is a sol=
ved problem) to the next-hop, associate fate of all routes received from it=
, keep timers reasonable to prevent false positives.<br><br>State is limite=
d to PE</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">s importing each others routes =
(sharing a service) only<br>High degree of automation<br>No IGP pollution=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div name=3D"messageSignatureSec=
tion"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div name=3D"messageReplySection"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-l=
eft:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt;, wrote:<br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style=3D"mar=
gin:3.75pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergen=
ce use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here al=
though I</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">m not convinced the IGP is the=
 right place to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;borde=
r-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <span style=3D"colo=
r:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>=
<b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Ras=
zuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszu=
k.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefft=
ant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aiju=
n Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">w=
angaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee=
=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable =
Announcement Use Cases</span><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:=
114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u=
></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.n=
et</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border=
-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<=
u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><=
blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bo=
rder-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm=
 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114p=
t"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert, I believe the original intenti=
on was related to having the data plane converge quickly when summarization=
 is used and flip so traffic converges from the Active ABR to the Backup AB=
R.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not buy this use case. Flooding within t=
he area is fast such that both ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned be=
fore there is no practical use of PUA for making any routing or fwd decisio=
n on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not connected with min redundancy t=
his draft is a worst patch ever to work around such a design.=C2=A0<u></u><=
u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=C2=A0 The point of PUA in ABR u=
se case is the ability to track the component prefixes and in case where co=
mponent is down and traffic is still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.=C2=
=A0 The other more important use case is when links are down within the are=
a and the area is partitioned and so one ABR has all component prefixes how=
ever other ABR is missing half the component prefixes.=C2=A0 So since the A=
BR will by default advertise the summary as long as their is one component =
UP the summary is still advertised.=C2=A0 So this use case is severely impa=
cting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summary via th=
e two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.=C2=A0 So now with PUA the proble=
m is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the ABR that=
 has the component prefixes.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><di=
v><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please present us a pictu=
re indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></=
p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; will do=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><b=
lockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;bor=
der-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm =
5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote sty=
le=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><d=
iv><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0However PUA can be used in the absence of area segm=
entation within a single area when a link or node fails to converge the dat=
a plane quickly by sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><=
u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114=
pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If there is no area segmentation then there is no =
summaries. So what are we missing in the first place ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan&gt; Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also=
 be used intra area where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane=
 convergence.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top=
:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=
<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><bloc=
kquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border=
-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt=
 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US">With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or O=
SPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - w=
ith those tweaks the convergence is well into sub second.=C2=A0 So for Intr=
a area convergence with all the optimizations mentioned I am not sure how m=
uch faster the data plane will converge with PUA.<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Even=
 without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will generally =
work well intra-area without PUAs.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt=
"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Gyan&gt; Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case=
 if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benef=
it of PUA.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:no=
ne;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-lef=
t:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thx,<br>R.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div=
></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt solid wi=
ndowtext;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none">&lt;&gt;</span></a></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin=
-left:114pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-f=
amily:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-left:114pt=
;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Georg=
ia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-le=
ft:114pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br><a href=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;=
source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a><a href=3D"https://www=
.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2%A0+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=
=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">=C2=A0</a><br></span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Colum=
bia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_blank">=
Silver Spring, MD</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></=
div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http=
://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;displ=
ay:inline-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/=
VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:1=
8px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-famil=
y:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"=
><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-heig=
ht:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em">=
<i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, s=
erif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;=
line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-13=
47<br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Columbia+Pike+%C2=
%A0+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">13101 Columbia Pike</a>=
=C2=A0<br></font></i><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+Co=
lumbia+Pike+%C2%A0+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg">Silver S=
pring, MD</a></p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz=
-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></=
a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NH=
G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
ns A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=
=C2=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;=
color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Colum=
bia Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--0000000000004d64d305b485d565--


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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 01:44:45 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+wi2hNY4tAxoAbQNb13z+CNcP8+GPX2eKV_poFLrrr5TudmsQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/E_OgX075iU8IxK5OuGylxBlj3Tk>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by RIFT
work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in research
cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the according source,
something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare to observe
which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not try to
compare the two beyond that. Disaggregation works well on directed graphs
(lattices) or arguably if your addressing scheme is aligned with regular
topology (hypercube e.g.). it works in generic graphs in super special
cases only & it will be @ best a crutch that may under all the correct
circumstances have some utility but probably ends up hurting operationally
more than helping. The indication that "magic timer" is needed in the draft
should be first warning, all kind of seat-of-pants heuristics to dis- and
re-aggregate 2nd.  Just quickly flying through the draft I see lots of
logic problems already that will lead to vexing effects, e.g. indication of
missing neighbor will work in specific type of topologies, in others
varying by one link only may lead to stable blackholes.

my 2c

-- tony

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:29 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =
 the example is
> rather  unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditional and well
> contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t  affect overall scalabil=
ity.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
> On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Aijun,
>
> I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed dow=
n
> to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.
>
> The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover
> the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you a=
re
> running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recentl=
y
> described in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising
> summary routes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition=
.
>
> Thx,
> R.
>
>
>> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote
>> service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being
>> advertised from remote area or pop.
>>
>>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism
> can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solutio=
n.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregatio=
n is inspired by RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea =
at least in research cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the=
 according source, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time =
I dare to observe which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please=
 do not try to compare the two beyond that. Disaggregation works well on di=
rected graphs (lattices) or arguably if your addressing scheme is aligned w=
ith regular topology (hypercube e.g.). it works in generic graphs in super =
special cases only &amp; it will be @ best a crutch that may under all the =
correct circumstances have some utility but probably ends up hurting operat=
ionally more than helping. The indication that &quot;magic timer&quot; is n=
eeded in the draft should be first warning, all kind of seat-of-pants heuri=
stics to dis- and re-aggregate 2nd.=C2=A0 Just quickly flying through the d=
raft I see lots of logic problems already that will lead to vexing effects,=
 e.g. indication of missing neighbor will work in specific type of topologi=
es, in others varying by one link only may lead to stable blackholes. <br><=
/div><div><br></div><div>my 2c</div><div><br></div><div>-- tony <br></div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:29 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftan=
t.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">As RIFT chair - =
I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =C2=A0the example =
is rather =C2=A0unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditional and well=
 contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t =C2=A0affect overall scal=
ability.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.ne=
t</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Aij=
un,</div><div><br></div><div>I would in fact only propose that the presente=
d mechanism is narrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact=
=C2=A0their next hops.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The reason being that=
 the moment you make the solution generic, moreover the moment you want it =
to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are running into similar=
=C2=A0(even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently described in RI=
FT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising summary routes in th=
e first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.=C2=A0</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I would ac=
tually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote service node=
 (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being advertised from=
 remote area or pop.=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></=
blockquote><div>=C2=A0[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but =
the PUA mechanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one=
 general solution.</div></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr m=
ailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman=
/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr<=
/a></span><br></div></blockquote></div>____________________________________=
___________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Tony:

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by RIFT=
 work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in research c=
ycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the according source, some=
thing has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare to observe which i=
n itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not try to compare the=
 two beyond that.
[WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s pro=
blem it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to p=
oint out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.

> Disaggregation works well on directed graphs (lattices) or arguably if you=
r addressing scheme is aligned with regular topology (hypercube e.g.). it wo=
rks in generic graphs in super special cases only & it will be @ best a crut=
ch that may under all the correct circumstances have some utility but probab=
ly ends up hurting operationally more than helping.
[WAJ] PUA will try to avoid the solution that can only fit some special topo=
logy or address schema.

> The indication that "magic timer" is needed in the draft should be first w=
arning, all kind of seat-of-pants heuristics to dis- and re-aggregate 2nd.=20=


[WAJ] =E2=80=9Ctimer=E2=80=9D is not uncommon in IGP protocol. Using it with=
in PUA mechanism is just to assure the service switch successfully upon it r=
eceives the PUA.

> Just quickly flying through the draft I see lots of logic problems already=
 that will lead to vexing effects, e.g. indication of missing neighbor will w=
ork in specific type of topologies, in others varying by one link only may l=
ead to stable blackholes.=20
[WAJ] Would you like to state the above conclusion more clearly?

>=20
> my 2c
>=20
> -- tony=20
>=20
>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:29 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>> As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 comment - =
 the example is rather  unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is conditional a=
nd well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t  affect overall sca=
lability.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Jeff
>>=20
>>>> On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:44, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> Hi Aijun,
>>>=20
>>> I would in fact only propose that the presented mechanism is narrowed do=
wn to invalidate BGP (service) routes - in fact their next hops.=20
>>>=20
>>> The reason being that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover=
 the moment you want it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are=
 running into similar (even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently d=
escribed in RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising summary=
 routes in the first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.=20
>>>=20
>>> Thx,
>>> R.
>>> =20
>>>>> I would actually trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remo=
te service node (ex: PE) going down in the presence of summary route being a=
dvertised from remote area or pop.=20
>>>  [WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA mechanism c=
an also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general solution.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Tony:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun Wan=
g<div>China Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite=
">On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda &lt;tonysietf@gmail.com&gt; wro=
te:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggre=
gation is inspired by RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an i=
dea at least in research cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to t=
he according source, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time=
 I dare to observe which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please=
 do not try to compare the two beyond that. </div></div></div></blockquote><=
div>[WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s=
 problem it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience=
 to point out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Disaggregation works well on di=
rected graphs (lattices) or arguably if your addressing scheme is aligned wi=
th regular topology (hypercube e.g.). it works in generic graphs in super sp=
ecial cases only &amp; it will be @ best a crutch that may under all the cor=
rect circumstances have some utility but probably ends up hurting operationa=
lly more than helping. </div></div></div></blockquote>[WAJ] PUA will try to a=
void the solution that can only fit some special topology or address schema.=
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Th=
e indication that "magic timer" is needed in the draft should be first warni=
ng, all kind of seat-of-pants heuristics to dis- and re-aggregate 2nd.&nbsp;=
 </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>[WAJ] =E2=80=9Ctimer=E2=80=9D=
 is not uncommon in IGP protocol. Using it within PUA mechanism is just to a=
ssure the service switch successfully upon it receives the PUA.</div><div><b=
r><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Just quic=
kly flying through the draft I see lots of logic problems already that will l=
ead to vexing effects, e.g. indication of missing neighbor will work in spec=
ific type of topologies, in others varying by one link only may lead to stab=
le blackholes. <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div>[WAJ] Would you like t=
o state the above conclusion more clearly?</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>my 2c</div><div><br>=
</div><div>-- tony <br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:29 AM Jeff Tantsura &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"auto">As RIFT chair - I=E2=80=99d like to respond to Robert=E2=80=99 commen=
t - &nbsp;the example is rather &nbsp;unfortunate, in RIFT disaggregation is=
 conditional and well contained within its context, it doesn=E2=80=99t &nbsp=
;affect overall scalability.<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Regards,<div>Jeff</div>=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 15, 2020, at 08:=
44, Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank"=
>robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div>Hi Aijun,</div><div><br></div><div>I would in fact only propose tha=
t the presented mechanism is narrowed down to invalidate BGP (service) route=
s - in fact&nbsp;their next hops.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The reason b=
eing that the moment you make the solution generic, moreover the moment you w=
ant it to be used in RIB and data plane I am afraid you are running into sim=
ilar&nbsp;(even if local) deaggregation mechanism like recently described in=
 RIFT. That would kill all the scalability of advertising summary routes in t=
he first place and I bet would face lots of opposition.&nbsp;</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>I would actual=
ly trim most use cases leaving just one - to signal remote service node (ex:=
 PE) going down in the presence of summary route being advertised from remot=
e area or pop.&nbsp;<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockqu=
ote><div>&nbsp;[WAJ] Yes, this may be the most useful use case, but the PUA m=
echanism can also apply to other scenarios. We want to make it one general s=
olution.</div></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr ma=
iling list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><=
/span><br></div></blockquote></div>_________________________________________=
______<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lsr ma=
iling list</span><br><span>Lsr@ietf.org</span><br><span>https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hi, Robert:

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Nov 20, 2020, at 16:10, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Gyan,
>=20
> I like and support your use case #1=20
>=20
> For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine indeed an area which get's partitio=
ned such that ABR will loose connectivity to bunch of nodes. Does this mean t=
hat now such ABR will be blasting globally perhaps 1000s of PUAs ? How would=
 the ABR be able to send PUA summary provided some disconnected POPs within a=
rea could be nicely summarized ?
[WAJ] If ABR can do PUA summary, it is certainly better.  Or else, send the =E2=
=80=9CPUA+Summary=E2=80=9D for failure prefixes or send the =E2=80=9Cdetaile=
d reachable information-summary=E2=80=9C for connected prefixes, depend whic=
h one is less. Do you have other proposals?

> Isn't it better to design your area such that ABRs are interconnected with=
 redundancy ?=20

[WAJ] Such requirement is certainly reasonable, but it still can=E2=80=99t a=
void the extreme situation.=20

>=20
> Thx,
> R.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>=20
>> Aijun=20
>>=20
>> I am thinking per the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simp=
le.  We need a solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data pla=
ne convergence capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.=20
>>=20
>> I have two simple solutions to start that I will update the presentation w=
ith to start and present to the WG and we can go from there.
>>=20
>> 1.  BGP NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data p=
lane
>>=20
>> 2.  Area partitioned scenario where PUA is used for data plane convergenc=
e to ABR that has reachability to component prefixes. =20
>>=20
>> I will send out tomorrow.
>>=20
>> Thanks=20
>>=20
>> Gyan
>>=20
>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> w=
rote:
>>> Hi, Acee:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> OK, we will try to improve this document to meet this criteria.
>>>=20
>>> And, as this topic has been discussed intensely on the mail list, we are=
 also eager to invite more interested experts to join us as co-authors to re=
fine the solutions for more scenarios.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>=20
>>> China Telecom
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>=20
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 AM
>>> To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Robert Raszuk' <robert@rasz=
uk.net>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>; 'Acee L=
indem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Speaking as WG Co-Chair:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>>> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM
>>> To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmai=
l.com>
>>> Cc: 'Gyan Mishra' <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>,=
 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf=
.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Hi, Robert:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standardized, the actions=
 based on the PUA can be different in different situation.
>>>=20
>>> We can discuss and describe the actions based on different scenarios aft=
er its WG adoption?
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with use c=
ase(s) and viable actions.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>>=20
>>> Acee
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Best Regards
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Aijun Wang
>>>=20
>>> China Telecom
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=20
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM
>>> To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.=
com>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; Acee Linde=
m (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Jeff,
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Please notice that WAN is not an IX.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> While you can have full mesh of BFD sessions among all IXP participants e=
ach bombarding each over over TB fabric every 100 ms or so to map the same o=
ver global WAN is a different game. If nothing else RTT between IXP particip=
ants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT between PEs distributed globally=
 is often 100-200 ms.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 areas distributed all over the world. That m=
eans that in worst case scenario (say same mgmt VPN present on each PE) you w=
ill establish 1000*999 BFD sessions. Now for this to make sense timer needs t=
o be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x multiplier. Anything slower will defeat the p=
urpose as BGP withdraw will be faster.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interfa=
ce meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting f=
or BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effec=
ts to the applications itself.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> So this is not at all about autodiscovery with which address to setup th=
e BFD session. It is much more about operational aspects of going that direc=
tion.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> With that I am supportive of this work even if we label it as experiment=
al for some time. As each network is different what is optimal solution for o=
ne design and deployment may not be optimal for the other.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Many thx,
>>>=20
>>> Robert
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>>>=20
>>> We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (there=
=E2=80=99s IX with RS use case) BFD verification based on next-hop extractio=
n, Robert - you should know. (also built a well working prototype in previou=
s life).=20
>>>=20
>>> Very simple logic:
>>>=20
>>> Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, w=
alk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD s=
ession (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, as=
sociate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to preve=
nt false positives.
>>>=20
>>> State is limited to PE=E2=80=99s importing each others routes (sharing a=
 service) only
>>> High degree of automation
>>> No IGP pollution=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Cheers,
>>>=20
>>> Jeff
>>>=20
>>> On Nov 17, 2020, 6:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>, wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Speaking as WG member:
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP PE failure convergence us=
e case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is some interest here although=
 I=E2=80=99m not convinced the IGP is the right place to solve this problem.=

>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>>=20
>>> Acee
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@g=
mail.com>
>>> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM
>>> To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>> Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Aijun W=
ang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:=

>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>    Robert, I believe the original intention was related to having the da=
ta plane converge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic con=
verges from the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> I do not buy this use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that b=
oth ABRs will get the same info. As mentioned before there is no practical u=
se of PUA for making any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If you=
r ABRs are not connected with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch eve=
r to work around such a design.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>    Gyan> Agreed.  The point of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to tra=
ck the component prefixes and in case where component is down and traffic is=
 still forwarded to the ABR and dropped.  The other more important use case i=
s when links are down within the area and the area is partitioned and so one=
 ABR has all component prefixes however other ABR is missing half the compon=
ent prefixes.  So since the ABR will by default advertise the summary as lon=
g as their is one component UP the summary is still advertised.  So this use=
 case is severely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area f=
or the summary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.  So now with=
 PUA the problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent t=
o the ABR that has the component prefixes.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Please present us a picture indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.=20=

>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>      Gyan> will do=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>    However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a s=
ingle area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by s=
ending PUA for the backup path so the active path.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are=
 we missing in the first place ?=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>     Gyan> Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra are=
a where if a link or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> With the IGP tuned with BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA=
 & RLFA for MPLS or TI-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the c=
onvergence is well into sub second.  So for Intra area convergence with all t=
he optimizations mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane will=
 converge with PUA.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymous things will gen=
erally work well intra-area without PUAs.=20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>>     Gyan> Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next hop self use case=
 if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would be a major benefi=
t of PUA.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Thx,
>>> R.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>>=20
>>> <>
>>>=20
>>> Gyan Mishra
>>> Network Solutions Architect=20
>>> M 301 502-1347
>>> 13101 Columbia Pike=20
>>> Silver Spring, MD
>>> =20
>>>=20
>> --=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Gyan Mishra
>> Network Solutions Architect=20
>> M 301 502-1347
>> 13101 Columbia Pike=20
>> Silver Spring, MD
>>=20

--Apple-Mail-E3A5BCB6-4E66-4CF9-9A86-86782BA137CB
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi, Robert:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun W=
ang<div>China Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te">On Nov 20, 2020, at 16:10, Robert Raszuk &lt;robert@raszuk.net&gt; wrote=
:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=
=BF<div dir=3D"ltr">Gyan,<div><br></div><div>I like and support your use cas=
e #1&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>For use case #2 I have doubts. Imagine i=
ndeed an area which get's partitioned such that ABR will loose connectivity t=
o bunch of nodes. Does this mean that now such ABR will be blasting globally=
 perhaps 1000s of PUAs ? How would the ABR be able to send PUA summary provi=
ded some disconnected POPs within area could be nicely summarized ? </div></=
div></div></blockquote><div>[WAJ] If ABR can do PUA summary, it is certainly=
 better. &nbsp;Or else, send the =E2=80=9CPUA+Summary=E2=80=9D for failure p=
refixes or send the =E2=80=9Cdetailed reachable information-summary=E2=80=9C=
 for connected prefixes, depend which one is less. Do you have other proposa=
ls?</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v>Isn't it better to design your area such that ABRs are interconnected with=
 redundancy ?&nbsp;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[WAJ] S=
uch requirement is certainly reasonable, but it still can=E2=80=99t avoid th=
e extreme situation.&nbsp;</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Thx,<br>R.</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 3:28 AM Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:h=
ayabusagsm@gmail.com">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s=
olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Aij=
un&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I am thinking pe=
r the feedback received let=E2=80=99s keep it really simple.&nbsp; We need a=
 solid use case to move the ball forward were the PUA data plane convergence=
 capabilities can fills a gap that exists today.&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I have two simple solutions to start that I wi=
ll update the presentation with to start and present to the WG and we can go=
 from there.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.&nbsp; BGP=
 NH tracking via PUA of NH component prefix to converge the data plane</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.&nbsp; Area partitioned scen=
ario where PUA is used for data plane convergence to ABR that has reachabili=
ty to component prefixes. &nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I will send out tomorrow.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Thanks&nbsp;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan<=
/div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:37 PM Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaiju=
n@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-=
CN"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Acee:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">OK, we will t=
ry to improve this document to meet this criteria. <u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-f=
amily:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">And, as this topic has been d=
iscussed intensely on the mail list, we are also eager to invite more intere=
sted experts to join us as co-authors to refine the solutions for more scena=
rios.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"=
><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)=
">Thanks in advance.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">Best Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
Aijun Wang<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-alig=
n:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=
=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">China Telecom<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></=
u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></=
u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom=
:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm=
 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"=
> Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:42 A=
M<br><b>To:</b> Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" t=
arget=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; 'Robert Raszuk' &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;=
; 'Jeff Tantsura' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> 'Gyan Mishra' &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;; 'lsr' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>=
Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><u></=
u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif">Speaking as WG Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span><=
/p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;borde=
r-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">From:=
 </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Aijun Wang &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.=
org.cn</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 3:05 AM<br><b=
>To: </b>Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_b=
lank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftan=
t.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc=
: </b>'Gyan Mishra' &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, 'lsr' &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, "'Acee Lindem (a=
cee)'" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Lsr]=
 Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi, Robert:</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-famil=
y:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF=
;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The trigger and propagation of PUA info can be standa=
rdized, the actions based on the PUA can be different in different situation=
. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We can discuss and desc=
ribe the actions based on different scenarios after its WG adoption?</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif">There will be no adoption call until there is a coherent draft with u=
se case(s) and viable actions. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>&nbsp;<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best Regards</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Aijun Wang</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:57pt;text-align:justify"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">China Telecom</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:57pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:rgb(31,73,125)">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:7=
8pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"> Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk=
.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday=
, November 18, 2020 3:49 PM<br><b>To:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc:</b> Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;; lsr &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Aijun W=
ang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wanga=
ijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee=3D=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use=
 Cases</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></=
span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">Jeff,<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">P=
lease notice that WAN is not an IX.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbs=
p;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While you can have full mesh of BFD session=
s among all IXP participants each bombarding each over over TB fabric every 1=
00 ms or so to map the same over global WAN is a different game. If nothing e=
lse RTT between IXP participants in healthy IX is around 1 ms while RTT betw=
een PEs distributed globally is often 100-200 ms.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just imagine 1000 PEs in 10 are=
as distributed all over the world. That means that in worst case scenario (s=
ay same mgmt VPN present on each PE) you will establish 1000*999 BFD session=
s. Now for this to make sense timer needs to be 100 ms or so with 3x or 5x m=
ultiplier. Anything slower will defeat the purpose as BGP withdraw will be f=
aster.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-=
US">Then we go into queuing issues. If BFD packets are queued at any interfa=
ce meltdowns may occur which can be far worse in consequences then waiting f=
or BGP service route removal. Such meltdowns often result in cascading effec=
ts to the applications itself.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So this is not at all about autodiscovery with w=
hich address to setup&nbsp;the BFD session. It is much more about operationa=
l aspects of going that direction.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp=
;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With that I am supportive of this work even i=
f we label it as experimental for some time. As each network is different wh=
at is optimal solution for one design and deployment may not be optimal for t=
he other.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">Many thx,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Robert<u></u><u></u></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 4:34 AM Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:je=
fftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;borde=
r-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div name=3D"messageBodySe=
ction"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">We have been discussing for quite some time and in different wg's (th=
ere</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">s IX with RS use case) BFD verificat=
ion based on next-hop extraction, Robert - you should know. (also built a we=
ll working prototype in previous life).&nbsp;<br><br>Very simple logic:<br><=
br>Upon route import (BGP update received and imported), extract next-hop, w=
alk BFD session table, if no match (no existing session) - establish (S)BFD s=
ession (Discriminators distribution is a solved problem) to the next-hop, as=
sociate fate of all routes received from it, keep timers reasonable to preve=
nt false positives.<br><br>State is limited to PE</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D=
"EN-US">s importing each others routes (sharing a service) only<br>High degr=
ee of automation<br>No IGP pollution&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></d=
iv><div name=3D"messageSignatureSection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, <=
u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78p=
t"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><div n=
ame=3D"messageReplySection"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0cm=
;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Nov 17, 2020, 6=
:43 AM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, wrote:<br><br><u></u><u></u></span></p>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin:3.75pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Speaking as WG member:<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think it would be good to hone in on the BGP P=
E failure convergence use case as suggested by Robert. It seems there is som=
e interest here although I</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3D"EN-US">m not convinc=
ed the IGP is the right place to solve this problem.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbs=
p;<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Acee<u></u><u></u></span></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:78pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nb=
sp;<u></u><u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:no=
ne;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0c=
m"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"> <span style=3D=
"color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Date:</b> Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 4:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> Robert Ra=
szuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszu=
k.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;, Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.=
ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Aijun Wan=
g &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaij=
un@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt;, "Acee Lindem (acee)" &lt;acee=3D<a href=3D"mailt=
o:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</=
a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Case=
s</span><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p><div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 3:36 AM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@=
raszuk.net" target=3D"_blank">robert@raszuk.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;bord=
er-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6p=
t;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin=
-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbs=
p;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;b=
order-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Rob=
ert, I believe the original intention was related to having the data plane c=
onverge quickly when summarization is used and flip so traffic converges fro=
m the Active ABR to the Backup ABR.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not buy thi=
s use case. Flooding within the area is fast such that both ABRs will get th=
e same info. As mentioned before there is no practical use of PUA for making=
 any routing or fwd decision on which ABR to use. If your ABRs are not conne=
cted with min redundancy this draft is a worst patch ever to work around suc=
h a design.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&n=
bsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"marg=
in-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; Agreed.&nbsp; The p=
oint of PUA in ABR use case is the ability to track the component prefixes a=
nd in case where component is down and traffic is still forwarded to the ABR=
 and dropped.&nbsp; The other more important use case is when links are down=
 within the area and the area is partitioned and so one ABR has all componen=
t prefixes however other ABR is missing half the component prefixes.&nbsp; S=
o since the ABR will by default advertise the summary as long as their is on=
e component UP the summary is still advertised.&nbsp; So this use case is se=
verely impacting as now you have an ECMP path to the other area for the summ=
ary via the two ABRs and you drop half your traffic.&nbsp; So now with PUA t=
he problem is fixed and the PUA is sent and now traffic is only sent to the A=
BR that has the component prefixes.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquot=
e style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:=
1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"=
><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please present us a pictur=
e indicating before and after ABRs behaviour.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p>=
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp;Gyan&gt; will do&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquo=
te style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left=
:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt=
"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"borde=
r-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbs=
p; &nbsp;However PUA can be used in the absence of area segmentation within a=
 single area when a link or node fails to converge the data plane quickly by=
 sending PUA for the backup path so the active path.&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>If there is no area segmentation then there is no summaries. So what are we=
 missing in the first place ?&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></di=
v></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt;=
 Sorry I am stating that PUA feature can also be used intra area where if a l=
ink or node goes down to improve data plane convergence.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bot=
tom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;marg=
in:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp=
;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-=
right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">With the IGP tuned wit=
h BFD fast detection on ISIS or OSPF links and LFA &amp; RLFA for MPLS or TI=
-LFA for SR local protection - with those tweaks the convergence is well int=
o sub second.&nbsp; So for Intra area convergence with all the optimizations=
 mentioned I am not sure how much faster the data plane will converge with P=
UA.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US">Even without any of the above listed chain of acronymo=
us things will generally work well intra-area without PUAs.&nbsp;<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" sty=
le=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp; Gyan&gt; Agreed which is why I mentioned the BGP next h=
op self use case if I could figure out how PUA could help there that would b=
e a major benefit of PUA.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D=
"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
>&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"m=
argin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thx,<br>R.<u></u><u></u></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></di=
v></div></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margi=
n-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div=
><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt solid windowte=
xt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none">&lt;&gt;</span></a></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-left:11=
4pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Ari=
al,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-left:114pt;margin-bot=
tom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;col=
or:black">Network Solutions Architect&nbsp;</span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p><p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-left:114pt;margi=
n-bottom:0.0001pt"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Georgia,seri=
f;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/sear=
ch/13101+Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" targe=
t=3D"_blank">13101 Columbia Pike</a>&nbsp;<br></span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://www.google.com/maps/search/13101+=
Columbia+Pike+Silver+Spring,+MD?entry=3Dgmail&amp;source=3Dg" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Silver Spring, MD</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:114pt"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">&nbsp;<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:in=
line-block" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/Verizo=
nWireless/vz-logo-email" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; w=
idth: 81px;" data-unique-identifier=3D""></a><br></p><p style=3D"font-size:1=
em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-h=
eight:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34=
);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:=
black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></font><font color=3D"#000000=
" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect&nbsp;</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-s=
ize:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, s=
erif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike&nbsp;<br></font></i>Silver Sprin=
g, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, Hannes Gredler <hannes@gredler.at>
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Thread-Topic: Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Hannes Gredler" <hannes@gredler.at>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Early Allocation for IS-IS TTZ
Thread-Index: AQHWveA5RqtZ9hD6d0uDNVCWXiDI3KnOAQSAgABrCzCAAvQcYP//ruoA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:59:52 +0000
Message-ID: <478EF118-D624-4E5C-8F0B-D7E35A9F2832@cisco.com>
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 12:08:38 -0800
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To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
wrote:

> Hi, Tony:
>
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
>
> On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by RIF=
T
> work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in research
> cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the according source,
> something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare to observe
> which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not try to
> compare the two beyond that.
>
> [WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s =
problem
> it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to
> point out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.
>
>
aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow implying a map of
RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but if this is a
completely different mechanism than I just watch from the sidelines

thanks

-- tony

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun=
 Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.o=
rg.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, Tony:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun Wang<div>Chi=
na Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov=
 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquo=
te></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div>Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired =
by RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in re=
search cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the according sou=
rce, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare to obse=
rve which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not try to=
 compare the two beyond that. </div></div></div></blockquote><div>[WAJ] PUA=
 has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s problem it =
encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to point o=
ut the pitfall that PUA can bypass.</div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow implying a =
map of RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but if this is=
 a completely different mechanism than I just watch from the sidelines</div=
><div><br></div><div>thanks <br></div><div><br></div><div>-- tony <br></div=
></div></div>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:45:12 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOj+MME7NjfzBpoQmr5pxvtmKMr400_hR8M4_Diyp=6uALbdXQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/88CRpbJq5d0_BJqf2WNvtdf_7-8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Hey Tony,

>  people somehow implying a map of RIFT negative disaggregation in
relation to this work

I think those people just made a subtle point that considering IGP alone if
you want to influence your data plane forwarding by advertising PUA in
today's hardware you really need to install more specific blocks of the
summary routes which PUA punched the hole in as sent by say one of the
ABR's. Analogy made to RIFT was just limited to this data plane fragment
only.

And that comment was not to compare PUA to RIFT negative routing in any
way. It was just to a) realize what could be required if such a use case
continues and more importantly b) highlight that if we just use PUA in the
control plane to for example invalidate BGP next hops or other overlay
service routes the disaggregation piece does not apply.

Cheers,
R.





On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:09 PM Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote=
:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Tony:
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by
>> RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in
>> research cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the accordin=
g
>> source, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare t=
o
>> observe which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not
>> try to compare the two beyond that.
>>
>> [WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s=
 problem
>> it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to
>> point out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.
>>
>>
> aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow implying a map of
> RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but if this is a
> completely different mechanism than I just watch from the sidelines
>
> thanks
>
> -- tony
>

--00000000000061f57c05b48fec53
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Tony,<div><br></div><div>&gt;=C2=A0 people somehow imp=
lying a map of RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think those people just made a subtle=
 point that considering IGP alone if you want to influence your data plane =
forwarding by advertising=C2=A0PUA in today&#39;s hardware you really need =
to install more specific blocks of the summary routes which PUA punched the=
 hole in as sent by say one of the ABR&#39;s. Analogy made to RIFT was just=
 limited to this data plane fragment only.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A=
nd that comment was not to compare PUA to RIFT negative routing in any way.=
 It was just to a) realize what could be required if such a use case contin=
ues and more importantly b) highlight that if we just use PUA in the contro=
l plane to for example invalidate BGP next hops or other overlay service ro=
utes the disaggregation piece does not apply.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Cheers,</div><div>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:09 PM Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Hi, Tony:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun Wang<div>China Tele=
com</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Nov 20, 20=
20, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></di=
v><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
>Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by RIFT=
 work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in research =
cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the according source, so=
mething has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare to observe whi=
ch in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do not try to compar=
e the two beyond that. </div></div></div></blockquote><div>[WAJ] PUA has no=
 relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s problem it encount=
ered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to point out the =
pitfall that PUA can bypass.</div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><di=
v>aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow implying a map of =
RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but if this is a comp=
letely different mechanism than I just watch from the sidelines</div><div><=
br></div><div>thanks <br></div><div><br></div><div>-- tony <br></div></div>=
</div>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000061f57c05b48fec53--


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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 13:02:08 -0800
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To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>,  Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Prefix Unreachable Announcement Use Cases
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Yeah, so to give e'one his due, negative disaggregation is Pascal's
brilliant brain-child, I bow to this. And I bow to his patience grinding me
down to convince me the complexity of it is by far outweighted by elegance
it brings to ugly failure repair. Then it took a lot of brow-beating until
e'one on RIFT understood that no, we will not get negative entry silicon
and hence need to remap negative to proper resolution as positive. Not the
simplest things but once you implemented it it turns out simpler than it
looks @ first

my 2c, I'll be watching here from a distance probably until it gelled a bit
more

-- tony

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:45 PM Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:

> Hey Tony,
>
> >  people somehow implying a map of RIFT negative disaggregation in
> relation to this work
>
> I think those people just made a subtle point that considering IGP alone
> if you want to influence your data plane forwarding by advertising PUA in
> today's hardware you really need to install more specific blocks of the
> summary routes which PUA punched the hole in as sent by say one of the
> ABR's. Analogy made to RIFT was just limited to this data plane fragment
> only.
>
> And that comment was not to compare PUA to RIFT negative routing in any
> way. It was just to a) realize what could be required if such a use case
> continues and more importantly b) highlight that if we just use PUA in th=
e
> control plane to for example invalidate BGP next hops or other overlay
> service routes the disaggregation piece does not apply.
>
> Cheers,
> R.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:09 PM Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Tony:
>>>
>>> Aijun Wang
>>> China Telecom
>>>
>>> On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>> Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is inspired by
>>> RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at least in
>>> research cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the accordi=
ng
>>> source, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I dare =
to
>>> observe which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do no=
t
>>> try to compare the two beyond that.
>>>
>>> [WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99=
s problem
>>> it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience to
>>> point out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.
>>>
>>>
>> aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow implying a map of
>> RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but if this is a
>> completely different mechanism than I just watch from the sidelines
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> -- tony
>>
>

--00000000000085e26705b4902a45
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yeah, so to give e&#39;one his due, negative disaggre=
gation is Pascal&#39;s brilliant brain-child, I bow to this. And I bow to h=
is patience grinding me down to convince me the complexity of it is by far =
outweighted by elegance it brings to ugly failure repair. Then it took a lo=
t of brow-beating until e&#39;one on RIFT understood that no, we will not g=
et negative entry silicon and hence need to remap negative to proper resolu=
tion as positive. Not the simplest things but once you implemented it it tu=
rns out simpler than it looks @ first</div><div><br></div><div>my 2c, I&#39=
;ll be watching here from a distance probably until it gelled a bit more<br=
></div><div><br></div><div>-- tony <br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:45 =
PM Robert Raszuk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robert@raszuk.net">robert@raszuk.net=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Tony,<div><br></div><div>&gt;=C2=A0 people somehow imp=
lying a map of RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work=C2=A0=
=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think those people just made a subtle=
 point that considering IGP alone if you want to influence your data plane =
forwarding by advertising=C2=A0PUA in today&#39;s hardware you really need =
to install more specific blocks of the summary routes which PUA punched the=
 hole in as sent by say one of the ABR&#39;s. Analogy made to RIFT was just=
 limited to this data plane fragment only.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A=
nd that comment was not to compare PUA to RIFT negative routing in any way.=
 It was just to a) realize what could be required if such a use case contin=
ues and more importantly b) highlight that if we just use PUA in the contro=
l plane to for example invalidate BGP next hops or other overlay service ro=
utes the disaggregation piece does not apply.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Cheers,</div><div>R.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 9:09 PM Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 6:27 AM Aijun Wang &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn" target=3D"_blank">wangaijun@=
tsinghua.org.cn</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, Tony:<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Aijun Wa=
ng<div>China Telecom</div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te">On Nov 20, 2020, at 17:45, Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysi=
etf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes, acknowledging the idea of negative disaggregation is=
 inspired by RIFT work is fine (and normally, when inspired by an idea at l=
east in research cycles it is considered basic courtesy to refer to the acc=
ording source, something has been lost more and more in IETF over time I da=
re to observe which in itself reflects on the community IMO) but please do =
not try to compare the two beyond that. </div></div></div></blockquote><div=
>[WAJ] PUA has no relation with RIFT. I have not yet study what=E2=80=99s p=
roblem it encountered, but welcome the experts have such design experience =
to point out the pitfall that PUA can bypass.</div><br></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>aha, ok, I just chimed in because I saw people somehow i=
mplying a map of RIFT negative disaggregation in relation to this work but =
if this is a completely different mechanism than I just watch from the side=
lines</div><div><br></div><div>thanks <br></div><div><br></div><div>-- tony=
 <br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:10:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi Adrian,

In line

Kind Regards

Gyan
On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Gyan,
>
>
>
> Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to =
a
> lot of lists :-).
>
>
>
> > I have noticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seem=
s
> in the
>
> > industry that the lines seem to be blurred between a PCE controller, OD=
L
> or
>
> > Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP & Day X
>
> > provisioning.
>
>
>
> Yes, blurriness our speciality.
>
>  Gyan> :)
>
> You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little
> dated. And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.
>
>  Gyan> Thanks
>
> As this is a software sitting on a server you can have a swiss army knife
> server that
>
> > does everything from PCE path computation to  Netconf/Yang ZTP & Day N
>
> > provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controller
> type
>
> > functions as well.
>
>
>
> Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it be
> converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificated
> on this way back in 2014 at http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf
>
>  Gyan> My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes
> responsibility.
>
> How this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is
> the use of
>
> > BGP-LS in building the IGP topological graph of the network which was
> designed
>
> > for PCEP and PCE & PCC active & passive off line path computation for
> both
>
> > RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation.
>
>
>
> In some senses, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could ha=
ve
> snooped on the IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and important=
ly
> adds to that some policy filters to determine what is exported thus givin=
g
> the network some control over what is exported.
>
>  Gyan> Agreed
>
> FWIW, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pce-pcep-ls/
> proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument in favor is that =
a
> PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include the LS export as wel=
l.
> The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicability and that it
> will typically be exported from an ASBR which already supports BGP.
>
>  Gyan> Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS
> overloading burden on BGP.  Great idea.  I like it.  Another very valuabl=
e
> tool in the operators toolbox.
>
> > However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions now such as
> usage as
>
> > I am a Shepherd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use
> BGP-LS to
>
> > gather the elements internals within BIER using the same BGP-LS data
> structures
>
> > to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER topology.
> So here
>
> > we are not doing any path computations as we are using in this use case
> for
>
> > NMS type function to gather data for ZTP & Day N provisioning.
>
> >
>
> > Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and bein=
g
> able
>
> > to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource
> information
>
> > and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like
> controller style
>
> > provisioning.
>
>
>
> Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and
> path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all d=
etermining
> how to configure the network to best carry traffic.
>
>
>
   Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane
TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation
of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet
push function not routing or TE related.

> > It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of "data gathering" "dump
> truck"
>
> > of anything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of
> topological graph
>
> > of literally anything under the sun.
>
>
>
> Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to transport
> Shakespeare.
>
> This is a tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets
> added, further use gets made.
>
>  Gyan> Understood
>
> BGP-LS was intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=
=80=9D from the
> network.
>
>  Gyan> Understood
>
> > I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of
> NMS Netconf/Yang
>
> > Controller based functionality and  PCE path computation functionality
> and SDN
>
> > controller based ZTP functionality into a single ubiquitous server that
> can do all of
>
> > the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the "kitchen sink" tasks.  It
> does however
>
> > transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a "tool" and not just the original
> function
>
> > which it was intended NLRI network reachability.
>
>
>
> Not sure that BGP-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS t=
ool=E2=80=9D.
>
> I might argue that BGP distributing policies from installation on PEs is
> an NMS protocol.
>
>  Gyan> Agreed.  One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is
> routing, however there many code points that are not necessarily routing
> related , and BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or
> parameters as a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however wi=
th
> that flexibility not all containers have to be used by the operator.  So
> the operator can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are
> required for the implementation per design requirements and only enable
> those that are necessary.  So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS=
.
> So in that case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extendi=
ng
> Netconf/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of dat=
a
> structures.   And that=E2=80=99s Ok.
>
> Am I off base and please let me know as its BGP-LS is being way over
> leveraged.
>
> > There are pros & cons to everything but I thought I would bring up to
> the WG as
>
> > an important discussion point.
>
>
>
> Who are we to argue with real implementations? Assuming that there is a
> push for implementation and deployment, then the thing to look for is
> =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion=
, risk
> destabilising the network? Should it use a different code point to be
> distinguishable?
>
> Gyan> Completely agree.  I agree negative impact if any exist.  See my
> comments above.  As BGP has the ability to compartmentalize SAFI,
> codepoints and parameters into containers to be used discretely for
> specific use cases tailored to the operators need. So it may feel that we
> are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and as that may not have been the
> intention way back but as BGP is customizable BGP can truly be a ubiquito=
us
> tool in the operators toolbox.
>
> I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already another protocol for =
doing
> this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be careful that it doesn=
=E2=80=99t get us
> stuck, or force everyone to do something they don=E2=80=99t want to do. A=
fter all,
> we could carry any protocol message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=
=99t do
> =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over Netconf=E2=80=9D.
>

   Gyan> Agreed

Many thanks for your feedback!

>
>
> Best,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

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<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Hi Adrian,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">In line=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Kind Regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Gyan<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 7:04 AM Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1">=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Hi Gyan,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
>Sorry, I missed this (got caught on a filter cos it was a bit spammed to a=
 lot of lists :-).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; I have no=
ticed that after reviewing many drafts across many WGs it seems in the<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; industry that the lines seem to be=
 blurred between a PCE controller, ODL or<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">&gt; Openflow SDN Controller and a Netconf/Yang NMS Controller ZTP &=
amp; Day X<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; provisioning.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">Yes, blurriness our speciality.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; :)<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
You my find RFC 7491 useful in this respect, although it is a little dated.=
 And, of course, RFC 8283 is a good starting point.<u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Thanks=C2=A0</p></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;paddin=
g-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"=
blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_27750=
02839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><=
u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; As this is a software sitt=
ing on a server you can have a swiss army knife server that<u></u><u></u></=
p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; does everything from PCE path computation to=
=C2=A0 Netconf/Yang ZTP &amp; Day N <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">&gt; provisioning as well as any SDN Controller ODL or Openflow controlle=
r type<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; functions as well.<u></=
u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">Yes, and this is one of the risks of PCE as a shiny thing: that it =
be converted from a useful toolkit into some form of god-box. I pontificate=
d on this way back in 2014 at <a href=3D"http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnw=
ards.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://www.olddog.co.uk/PCEPandOnwards.pdf</a><=
u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; =
My sentiments exactly - With that power at your fingertips comes responsibi=
lity. =C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div =
lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word=
"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; How=
 this comes into play and realization of the lines being blurred is the use=
 of<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; BGP-LS in building the IGP=
 topological graph of the network which was designed<u></u><u></u></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; for PCEP and PCE &amp; PCC active &amp; passive off =
line path computation for both<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;=
 RSVP-TE or SR-TE path instantiation.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In some sense=
s, BGP-LS didn=E2=80=99t add anything because a PCE could have snooped on t=
he IGP. But BGP-LS provides an export mechanism and importantly adds to tha=
t some policy filters to determine what is exported thus giving the network=
 some control over what is exported.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">FWIW, <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodylee-pc=
e-pcep-ls/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dhodyl=
ee-pce-pcep-ls/</a> proposes using PCEP for the same function. The argument=
 in favor is that a PCE has to implement PCEP anyway, so why not include th=
e LS export as well. The argument against is that BGP-LS has wider applicab=
ility and that it will typically be exported from an ASBR which already sup=
ports BGP.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=
=A0Gyan&gt; Makes sense and in some ways cuts out the middle man BGP-LS ove=
rloading burden on BGP.=C2=A0 Great idea.=C2=A0 I like it.=C2=A0 Another ve=
ry valuable tool in the operators toolbox.<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">&gt; However now BGP-LS can also be used for other functions no=
w such as usage as<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; I am a Shep=
herd reviewing a draft for BGP-LS usage for BIER to use BGP-LS to<u></u><u>=
</u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; gather the elements internals within BI=
ER using the same BGP-LS data structures<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">&gt; to populate with BIER specific information to graph the BIER top=
ology.=C2=A0 So here<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; we are no=
t doing any path computations as we are using in this use case=C2=A0 for<u>=
</u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; NMS type function to gather data=
 for ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">&gt;<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&g=
t; Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being=
 able<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; to provision TS and capt=
uring the TS Enhanced VPN RT &amp; resource information<u></u><u></u></p><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gatheri=
ng &amp; ZTP like controller style<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
&gt; provisioning.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is there a fundamental diff=
erence between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path computation for traffi=
c engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all determining how to configure t=
he network to best carry traffic.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - cont=
rol plane TEDs and forwarding plane routing action path computation and ins=
tantiation of path action as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configurati=
on snippet push function not routing or TE related.</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1"><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&g=
t; It does seem as though BGP-LS as its a means of &quot;data gathering&quo=
t; &quot;dump truck&quot;<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; of a=
nything with the kitchen sink included to build any type of topological gra=
ph<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; of literally anything under=
 the sun.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">Remembering Yakov Rekhter saying you could use BGP to=
 transport Shakespeare. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is a =
tension with any protocol BGP-LS, PCEP, etc., etc. Stuff gets added, furthe=
r use gets made.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></=
u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Understood=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">BGP-LS w=
as intended to export routing information =E2=80=9Cnorthbound=E2=80=9D from=
 the network.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=
=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Understood=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt;=C2=A0=
I see that is a nice to leverage but it does in fact blur the lines of NMS =
Netconf/Yang<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; Controller based =
functionality and=C2=A0 PCE path computation functionality and SDN<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; controller based ZTP functionality int=
o a single ubiquitous server that can do all of<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; the above and use BGP-LS to accomplish the &quot;kitche=
n sink&quot; tasks.=C2=A0 It does however<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal">&gt; transform BGP to be an NMS tool but a &quot;tool&quot; and not =
just the original function<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; whi=
ch it was intended NLRI network reachability.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Not sure that BGP=
-LS is BGP. But I agree that BGP-LS is =E2=80=9Can NMS tool=E2=80=9D.<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I might argue that BGP distributing poli=
cies from installation on PEs is an NMS protocol.<u></u><u></u></p></div><d=
iv><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>=C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed.=
=C2=A0 One way to look at it is that as BGP primary function is routing, ho=
wever there many code points that are not necessarily routing related , and=
 BGP provides the ability to have each code point or SAFI or parameters as =
a discrete container - to be enabled as desired, however with that flexibil=
ity not all containers have to be used by the operator.=C2=A0 So the operat=
or can custom tailor what SAFI, codepoint or parameters are required for th=
e implementation per design requirements and only enable those that are nec=
essary.=C2=A0 So that would of course be the case for BGP-LS.=C2=A0 So in t=
hat case BGP can be utilized for routing or as an NMS tool extending Netcon=
f/Yang via BGP-LS or any other function that requires import of data struct=
ures. =C2=A0 And that=E2=80=99s Ok.=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border=
-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pu=
rple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745Wor=
dSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; Am I off base and please let me know a=
s its BGP-LS is being way over leveraged.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; There are pros &amp; cons to everything but I thought I=
 would bring up to the WG as<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; a=
n important discussion point.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Who are we to argue with real imp=
lementations? Assuming that there is a push for implementation and deployme=
nt, then the thing to look for is =E2=80=9Charm=E2=80=9D. Does this use of =
BGP-LS cause harm, sow confusion, risk destabilising the network? Should it=
 use a different code point to be distinguishable?<u></u><u></u></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u>Gyan&gt; Completely agree.=C2=A0 I agre=
e negative impact if any exist.=C2=A0 See my comments above.=C2=A0 As BGP h=
as the ability to compartmentalize SAFI, codepoints and parameters into con=
tainers to be used discretely for specific use cases tailored to the operat=
ors need. So it may feel that we are throwing the kitchen sink at BGP and a=
s that may not have been the intention way back but as BGP is customizable =
BGP can truly be a ubiquitous tool in the operators toolbox.<u></u></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal">I think the argument that =E2=80=9Cthere is already anot=
her protocol for doing this=E2=80=9D is worth examining. But we have to be =
careful that it doesn=E2=80=99t get us stuck, or force everyone to do somet=
hing they don=E2=80=99t want to do. After all, we could carry any protocol =
message using Netconf/YANG, but we don=E2=80=99t do =E2=80=9CRSVP-TE over N=
etconf=E2=80=9D.</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan&gt; Agreed</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Many thanks for your feedback!</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:r=
gb(204,204,204)"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_2775002839800588745WordSection1">=
<div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" dir=3D"auto"><u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<u></u=
><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Adrian<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=
=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blan=
k"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-email" w=
idth=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height:18px;width:81px"></a><br></p><p s=
tyle=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS&quot;,Ari=
al,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p><p style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D"georgia,=
 serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A</i></fon=
t><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=A0</i></fo=
nt></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;color:black"><=
i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0=
<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div>

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Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Bier] PCE Controller & SDN Controller & Netconf/Yang NMS Controller - lines blurred and can the names be used ubiquitously meaning the same
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Hi again Gyan,

=20

I think we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for =
the mailing lists we=E2=80=99re spamming.

> Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and =
being able
> to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT & resource =
information
> and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data gathering & ZTP like =
controller style
> provisioning.=20

Is there a fundamental difference between ZTP & Day N provisioning and =
path computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry traffic.=20

Gyan> In my mind the fundamental difference would be TE - control plane =
TEDs and
forwarding plane routing action path computation and instantiation of =
path action
as compare to a NMS type Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push =
function not
routing or TE related.

=20

[Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just tools. You could =
have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform computations, but you =
can use any combinations of protocols to extract information from the =
network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) and any combination =
of protocols to program the network devices to install TE paths, reserve =
resources, and configure traffic forwarding rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, =
Netconf, =E2=80=A6).

=20

Cheers,

Adrian


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi again =
Gyan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think =
we=E2=80=99re narrowing down and getting somewhat esoteric for the =
mailing lists we=E2=80=99re =
spamming.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&gt; =
Similarly other use cases such as with TEAS TS-Transport slice and being =
able<br>&gt; to provision TS and capturing the TS Enhanced VPN RT &amp; =
resource information<br>&gt; and leveraging BGP-LS to do the same data =
gathering &amp; ZTP like controller style<br>&gt; =
provisioning.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is there a =
fundamental difference between ZTP &amp; Day N provisioning and path =
computation for traffic engineering provisioning? It=E2=80=99s all =
determining how to configure the network to best carry =
traffic.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal>Gyan&gt; In my mind the fundamental difference would =
be TE - control plane TEDs and<br>forwarding plane routing action path =
computation and instantiation of path action<br>as compare to a NMS type =
Netconf/Yang configuration snippet push function not<br>routing or TE =
related.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>[Adrian] I think it depends. The protocols are just =
tools. You could have a centralised TE system with a PCE to preform =
computations, but you can use any combinations of protocols to extract =
information from the network (IGPs, BGP-LS, PCEP-LS, Netconf, =E2=80=A6) =
and any combination of protocols to program the network devices to =
install TE paths, reserve resources, and configure traffic forwarding =
rules (PCEP, RSVP-TE, Netconf, =E2=80=A6).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></h=
tml>
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHGFfhg>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Responses for comments on "passive interface attribute" draft
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Hi, Acee:

=20

Stub-link is actually the special part of the IGP topology information. =
It must be taken into consideration when we done inter-as work, for =
example, inter-as topology retrieval, or inter-as TE etc.

Current solutions for such scenarios require tedious configuration on =
each boundary interface.=20

With the help of central controller and the information that provided by =
the stub-link, it is easy to reconstruct the inter-as topology, steering =
the traffic to the right boundary interface. The routers within the IGP =
domain can also select the right nexthop to arrive the server that =
attached to the stub-link.

We have ignored the usage of the stub-link for long time, is it the time =
to shine it then?

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 3:36 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] Responses for comments on "passive interface attribute" =
draft

=20

Speaking as WG member and updating subject:

=20

Hi Aijun,=20

=20

We=E2=80=99re not going to add stub links back into Router-LSAs under =
any circumstance since that was an advantage of OSPFv3 over OSPFv2 =
(refer to section 2.8 of RFC 5340). Additionally, we=E2=80=99re going to =
be careful as to what information we put into the topological LSAs.=20

=20

With respect to your specific use case, you haven=E2=80=99t disclosed it =
other than you=E2=80=99re making some loose inference based on an =
interface being a passive interface  (which isn=E2=80=99t a standardized =
IGP concept). Rather, you should precisely design your use case and then =
we can talk about a solution.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn =
<mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> >
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 10:06 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, "lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> " <lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: RE: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes(Responses for comments =
on "passive interface attribute" draft)

=20

HI, Acee:

=20

Thanks for the minutes, and also thanks for Yingzhen.=20

=20

Below are the responses for the comments regarding to =
draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-a=
ttribute-06> , please see whether they address your concern or not.

For simplicity, I just summary the key points of the comments.

=E3=80=90Chris=E3=80=91: Why not using the existed TLV to solve the =
Inter-as use case?

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: For inter-AS use case, using =
the existed TLV has the constraints that described in =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHnJ7A/

=20

=E3=80=90Chris=E3=80=91: Why not using prefix attributes to advertise =
application server=E2=80=99s information?

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: It is possible to advertise =
these information together with prefix. But when we want to describe the =
resources(for example, link bandwidth, link utilization ratio etc.) to =
the prefix, it is more reasonable to associated them to link attributes.

=20

On summary, considering the above two use case has the common =
characteristic, that is, the associated link is stub-link, we think that =
defines the stub-link TLV to contain the these information  is more =
extensible.

=20

=E3=80=90Acee=E3=80=91: Why not just advertise the link is the inter-AS =
boundary or other , and doesn=E2=80=99t need to infer this conclusion?=20

=E3=80=90Reply-from Aijun Wang=E3=80=91: If necessary, we can add one =
flag field to indicate clearly the sub-type of the stub-link. But =
currently, they are all passive-interface, has no other distinguished =
differences.

The usage of such information, or the inferences method, may be =
different in different scenario. I think the standardization work should =
defines the fundamental common parts.

=20

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>  =
<lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 6:17 AM
To: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>=20
Subject: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes

=20

I have uploaded the minutes for the meeting on Monday morning. Thanks =
much to Yingzhen Qu for taking them. Please send me any additions or =
corrections to me.

=20

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/

=20

Presenters and draft authors, please note that if more discussion is =
need on your draft then it is up to you to initiate such discussion.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, Acee:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>S=
tub-link is actually the special part of the IGP topology information. =
It must be taken into consideration when we done inter-as work, for =
example, inter-as topology retrieval, or inter-as TE =
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
urrent solutions for such scenarios require tedious configuration on =
each boundary interface. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
ith the help of central controller and the information that provided by =
the stub-link, it is easy to reconstruct the inter-as topology, steering =
the traffic to the right boundary interface. The routers within the IGP =
domain can also select the right nexthop to arrive the server that =
attached to the stub-link.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>W=
e have ignored the usage of the stub-link for long time, is it the time =
to shine it then?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
&lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, 2020 3:36 PM<br><b>To:</b> =
Aijun Wang &lt;wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&gt;; =
lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Responses for comments on =
&quot;passive interface attribute&quot; =
draft<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Speaking as WG member and =
updating subject:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hi Aijun, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>We=E2=80=99re not going to add =
stub links back into Router-LSAs under any circumstance since that was =
an advantage of OSPFv3 over OSPFv2 (refer to section 2.8 of RFC 5340). =
Additionally, we=E2=80=99re going to be careful as to what information =
we put into the topological LSAs. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>With respect to your specific =
use case, you haven=E2=80=99t disclosed it other than you=E2=80=99re =
making some loose inference based on an interface being a passive =
interface &nbsp;(which isn=E2=80=99t a standardized IGP concept). =
Rather, you should precisely design your use case and then we can talk =
about a solution. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:black'>Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 10:06 PM<br><b>To: =
</b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: =
[Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes(Responses for comments on =
&quot;passive interface attribute&quot; =
draft)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
I, Acee:</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
hanks for the minutes, and also thanks for Yingzhen. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
elow are the responses for the comments regarding to <a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-passive-inte=
rface-attribute-06">draft-wang-lsr-passive-interface-attribute-06</a>, =
please see whether they address your concern or not.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
or simplicity, I just summary the key points of the =
comments.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Chris</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not using the existed TLV to solve the Inter-as use =
case?</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: For inter-AS use case, using the existed TLV has the =
constraints that described in <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SH=
nJ7A/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/VLufuaGDiRgaflcu58FY_SHn=
J7A/</a></span></span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Chris</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not using prefix attributes to advertise application =
server</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>s =
information?</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: It is possible to advertise these information together =
with prefix. But when we want to describe the resources(for example, =
link bandwidth, link utilization ratio etc.) to the prefix, it is more =
reasonable to associated them to link attributes.</span></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>O=
n summary, considering the above two use case has the common =
characteristic, that is, the associated link is stub-link, we think that =
defines the stub-link TLV to contain the these information &nbsp;is more =
extensible.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Acee</span>=E3=80=91<span lang=3DEN-US>: Why =
not just advertise the link is the inter-AS boundary or other , and =
doesn</span>=E2=80=99<span lang=3DEN-US>t need to infer this conclusion? =
</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>=E3=
=80=90<span lang=3DEN-US>Reply-from Aijun Wang</span>=E3=80=91<span =
lang=3DEN-US>: If necessary, we can add one flag field to indicate =
clearly the sub-type of the stub-link. But currently, they are all =
passive-interface, has no other distinguished =
differences.</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he usage of such information, or the inferences method, may be different =
in different scenario. I think the standardization work should defines =
the fundamental common parts.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd;text-align:justif=
y;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:4.75gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>&=
nbsp;</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 20, =
2020 6:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] =
IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I have uploaded the minutes for =
the meeting on Monday morning. Thanks much to Yingzhen Qu for taking =
them. Please send me any additions or corrections to me.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-109-lsr/</a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Presenters and draft authors, =
please note that if more discussion is need on your draft then it is up =
to you to initiate such discussion. </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks,</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:78.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:6.5gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Acee</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_027B_01D6C181.B5A28FC0--


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:58:50 +0000
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To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IETF I09 LSR Meeting Minutes
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The WGLC has completed. The documented was updated to address the =
objections made during the WGLC. The write-up will begin and publication =
will be requested.

Thanks,
Chris.

> On Oct 15, 2020, at 2:15 AM, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Signed PGP part
> This begins a 2 week WG Last Call, ending after Oct 29th, 2020, for:
>=20
>  =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator/
>=20
> The following IPR has been filed =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3448/
>=20
> Authors,
>=20
>  Please indicate to the list, your knowledge of any other IPR related =
to this work.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>=20
>=20


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Hi WG,

RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data =
field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?

Thanks in advance.=


From nobody Thu Nov 26 10:00:52 2020
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:00:36 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Alex,

I believe the text in section 2.7 talks about Router LSA advertisements
which contains both local information as well as information describing
each formed adjacency with each neighbour. The RFC just talks about the new
added part.

Thx,
R.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 5:58 PM Alexander Okonnikov <
alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi WG,
>
> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data
> field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data.
> What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links
> and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on this?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--000000000000ccf1a105b50652a4
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Alex,<div><br></div><div>I believe the text in section 2.7=
 talks about Router LSA advertisements which contains both local informatio=
n as well as information describing each formed adjacency with each neighbo=
ur. The RFC just talks about the new added part.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Thx,</div><div>R.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 5:58 PM Alexander=
 Okonnikov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com">alexander.o=
konnikov@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">Hi WG,<br>
<br>
RFC 5185 says that Neighbor&#39;s IP address to be encoded into Link Data f=
ield. Per RFC 2328 router&#39;s own IP address to be encoded into Link Data=
. What is the reason to advertise neighbor&#39;s IP address for multi-area =
links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on=
 this?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000ccf1a105b50652a4--


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Alexander,

On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
> Hi WG,
> 
> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on this?

Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in 
case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but 
that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Hi Peter,

Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point =
each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.

Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:

1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that =
multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in =
Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address =
(numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);

2) =46rom -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, =
but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather =
than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link =
look like unnumbered;

3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more =
mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, =
another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link =
is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is =
unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link =
is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in =
RFC 5185.

Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area =
links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP =
address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. =46rom =
perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or =
unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding =
interface.

One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation =
(in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered =
interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own =
IP interface address.

Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) =
to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate =
RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to =
match IGP link to TE link.

Thank you.

> 27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):
>=20
> Alexander,
>=20
> On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>> Hi WG,
>> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data =
field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?
>=20
> Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in =
case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but =
that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.
>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>> Thanks in advance.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 06:13:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt
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--_000_BY5PR11MB43378F8D1E12A7EFA591C014C1F50BY5PR11MB4337namp_
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Draft authors -



I note that as the draft has evolved over the years a number of mechanisms =
have been removed (revised adjacency formation and auto tier detection) and=
 the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding optimizations.

The draft now also references the recent work done in draft-ietf-lsr-dynami=
c-flooding.



A couple of things are not clear to me.



1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic=
-flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusively - referring to how fl=
ooding adapts to topology changes.

It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are actually intending to use the=
 mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-f=
looding-07#section-6.8 or whether you simply want to use the Flooding sub-T=
LV defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding to (optionally??) advertise y=
our algorithm and all other procedures are specific to your algorithm.



2)The text at the end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distop=
tflood-00#section-2.1 states:



" LSPs transmitted to adjacent

   neighbors on the DNR list, however, MUST be transmitted using a

   circuit scope PDU as described in [RFC7356]."



Although this text is not new to this revision, it raises a number of quest=
ions/concerns - some of which relate to how this draft fits with draft-ietf=
-lsr-dynamic-flooding.



For "DNR neighbors", although a circuit scoped LSP was received, the actual=
 content is a traditional area scoped LSP. This presumably needs to be used=
 internally (e.g., when running the Decision Process) in the same way as an=
 area scoped LSP. So there are now two internal databases (traditional area=
 LSPs and Circuit Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are a singl=
e database?

When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it include the LSPs it received a=
s Circuit-Scoped LSPs?

If not, how is resynchronization achieved when necessary?

Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding why is the u=
se of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful?



In general, it would be helpful to more completely define the relationship =
between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.



Thanx.



   Les





> -----Original Message-----

> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde

> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM

> To: lsr@ietf.org

> Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptfl=
ood-

> 00.txt

>

> WG members,

>

>

> We have posted new version of the draft-white-lsr-distoptflood.

> This draft has been around for sometime by name openfabric and

> draft-white-distoptflood. The current revision has the name changed

> to reflect LSR WG.

> This draft describes a flood reduction mechanism in ISIS which is based o=
n

> similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for mobile-ad-hoc Networks

> ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]).

>

> Request working group to review and provide inputs.

>

> Rgds

> Shraddha

>

>

> Juniper Business Use Only

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <internet=
-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>

> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM

> To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net<mailto:shraddha@juniper.net>>; R=
uss White <russ@riw.us<mailto:russ@riw.us>>;

> Shawn Zandi <szandi@linkedin.com<mailto:szandi@linkedin.com>>

> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt

>

> [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>

> A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt

> has been successfully submitted by Shraddha Hegde and posted to the IETF

> repository.

>

> Name:           draft-white-lsr-distoptflood

> Revision:       00

> Title:          IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies

> Document date:  2020-11-29

> Group:          Individual Submission

> Pages:          12

> URL:

> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-<=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-lsr-=
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> Status:

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> Htmlized:

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> white-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO-<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/d=
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>

>

> Abstract:

>    In dense topologies, such as data center fabrics based on the Clos

>    and butterfly fabric topologies, flooding mechanisms designed for

>    sparse topologies, when used in these dense topologies, can

>    "overflood," or carry too many copies of topology and reachability to

>    fabric devices.  This results in slower convergence times and higher

>    resource utilization.  The modifications to the flooding mechanism in

>    the Intermediate System to Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state

>    protocol described in this document reduce resource utilization to a

>    minimum, while increaseing convergence performance in dense

>    topologies.

>

>    Note that a Clos fabric is used as the primary example of a desne

>    flooding topology throughout this document.  However, the flooding

>    optimizations described in this document apply to any dense topology.

>

>

>

>

> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion

> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

>

> The IETF Secretariat

>

> _______________________________________________

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Draft authors -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I note that as the draft has evolved over the yea=
rs a number of mechanisms have been removed (revised adjacency formation an=
d auto tier detection) and the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding op=
timizations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The draft now also references the recent work don=
e in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">A couple of things are not clear to me.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined=
 in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusi=
vely - referring to how flooding adapts to topology changes.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are act=
ually intending to use the mechanisms defined in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#s=
ection-6.8">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#section-6.8<=
/a> or whether you simply want to use the Flooding sub-TLV defined in draft=
-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding to (optionally??) advertise your algorithm and a=
ll other procedures are specific
 to your algorithm.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">2)The text at the end of <a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00#section-2.1">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00#section-2.1</a>=
 states:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&quot; LSPs transmitted to adjacent<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; neighbors on the DNR list, however, =
MUST be transmitted using a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; circuit scope PDU as described in [R=
FC7356].&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Although this text is not new to this revision, i=
t raises a number of questions/concerns &#8211; some of which relate to how=
 this draft fits with draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">For &#8220;DNR neighbors&#8221;, although a circu=
it scoped LSP was received, the actual content is a traditional area scoped=
 LSP. This presumably needs to be used internally (e.g., when running the D=
ecision Process) in the same way as an area scoped
 LSP. So there are now two internal databases (traditional area LSPs and Ci=
rcuit Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are a single database?<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it incl=
ude the LSPs it received as Circuit-Scoped LSPs?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">If not, how is resynchronization achieved when ne=
cessary?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dyn=
amic-flooding why is the use of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful?<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">In general, it would be helpful to more completel=
y define the relationship between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo=
oding.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanx.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; On Be=
half Of Shraddha Hegde</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: lsr@ietf.org</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification =
for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; 00.txt</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; WG members,</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; We have posted new version of the draft-whit=
e-lsr-distoptflood.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; This draft has been around for sometime by n=
ame openfabric and</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; draft-white-distoptflood. The current revisi=
on has the name changed</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; to reflect LSR WG.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; This draft describes a flood reduction mecha=
nism in ISIS which is based on</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for m=
obile-ad-hoc Networks</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]).</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Request working group to review and provide =
inputs.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Rgds</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Shraddha</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Juniper Business Use Only</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf=
.org"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">internet-drafts=
@ietf.org</span></a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">internet-drafts@ietf.org</s=
pan></a>&gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Shraddha Hegde &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shr=
addha@juniper.net"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">sh=
raddha@juniper.net</span></a>&gt;; Russ White &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:russ@ri=
w.us"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">russ@riw.us</sp=
an></a>&gt;;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Shawn Zandi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:szandi@lin=
kedin.com"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">szandi@lin=
kedin.com</span></a>&gt;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: New Version Notification for draft-=
white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; [External Email. Be cautious of content]</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distop=
tflood-00.txt</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; has been successfully submitted by Shraddha =
Hegde and posted to the IETF</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; repository.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-white-lsr-distoptflood</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; 00</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies</p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Document date:&nbsp; 2020-11-29</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Individual Submission</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; URL:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https=
:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-=
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 gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q</span><=
/a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/too=
ls.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!T5HX4Enn7j=
t3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q2$"><span style=3D"col=
or:windowtext;text-decoration:none">&gt;
 2$</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Abstract:</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In dense topologies, such =
as data center fabrics based on the Clos</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and butterfly fabric topol=
ogies, flooding mechanisms designed for</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sparse topologies, when us=
ed in these dense topologies, can</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;overflood,&quot; or =
carry too many copies of topology and reachability to</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;fabric devices.&nbsp; This=
 results in slower convergence times and higher</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;resource utilization.&nbsp=
; The modifications to the flooding mechanism in</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the Intermediate System to=
 Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;protocol described in this=
 document reduce resource utilization to a</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;minimum, while increaseing=
 convergence performance in dense</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;topologies.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Note that a Clos fabric is=
 used as the primary example of a desne</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;flooding topology througho=
ut this document.&nbsp; However, the flooding</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;optimizations described in=
 this document apply to any dense topology.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Please note that it may take a couple of min=
utes from the time of submission</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; until the htmlized version and diff are avai=
lable at tools.ietf.org.</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; The IETF Secretariat</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; </p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
___</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Lsr mailing list</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Lsr@ietf.org</span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/lsr"><span style=3D"color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span></a></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com>
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:56:23 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Hi Alex,

On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.
> 
> Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:
> 
> 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);
> 
> 2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look like unnumbered;
> 
> 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. >
> Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. From perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding interface.

you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not 
mandating to send IP address really.

> 
> One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface address.
> 
> Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to match IGP link to TE link.

I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a 
multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference 
rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised 
for TE purposes.

thanks,
Peter

> 
> Thank you.
> 
>> 27 нояб. 2020 г., в 14:50, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> написал(а):
>>
>> Alexander,
>>
>> On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>>> Hi WG,
>>> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on this?
>>
>> Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
> 
> 
> 


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From: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>
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Cc: lsr@ietf.org
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Hi Peter,

> 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):
>=20
> Hi Alex,
>=20
> On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>> Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point =
each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.
>> Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:
>> 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that =
multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in =
Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address =
(numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);
>> 2) =46rom -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as =
unnumbered, but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the =
neighbor (rather than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order =
to make the link look like unnumbered;
>> 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no =
more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, =
another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link =
is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is =
unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link =
is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in =
RFC 5185. >
>> Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area =
links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP =
address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. =46rom =
perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or =
unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding =
interface.
>=20
> you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not =
mandating to send IP address really.

The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as =
numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And =
if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not =
need RFC 5185 (section 1.2).

>> One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop =
calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with =
numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will =
be its own IP interface address.
>> Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC =
3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to =
calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router =
needs to match IGP link to TE link.
>=20
> I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a =
multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference =
rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised =
for TE purposes.

Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need =
ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what =
about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section =
3?

> thanks,
> Peter

Thank you.

>> Thank you.
>>> 27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter =
Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0=
):
>>>=20
>>> Alexander,
>>>=20
>>> On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>>>> Hi WG,
>>>> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?
>>>=20
>>> Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity =
in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but =
that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.
>>>=20
>>> thanks,
>>> Peter
>>>=20
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Peter,<br class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2=
 12:56, Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=
=BB(=D0=B0):</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Hi Alex,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Hi Peter,<br class=3D"">Which kind of =
ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point each link has its =
own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.<br class=3D"">Per my =
understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:<br =
class=3D"">1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed =
that multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded =
in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP =
address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);<br class=3D"">2) =46rom =
-06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if =
interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than =
local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look =
like unnumbered;<br class=3D"">3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC =
5185 itself there is no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated =
as unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's interface =
is numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's interface is =
unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting =
corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also =
removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. &gt;<br class=3D"">Hence, in version =
-09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links Link Data for =
numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address to own IP =
address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. =46rom perspective of other =
routers this link can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on =
configuration of neighbor's corresponding interface.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is =
not mandating to send IP address really.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div>The same valid =
for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as numbered. This =
is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And if we would =
prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not need RFC =
5185 (section 1.2).</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family:=
 iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">One question - how neighboring router =
will perform next-hop calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If =
neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data =
as IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface address.<br =
class=3D"">Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV =
(RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to =
calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router =
needs to match IGP link to TE link.<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering =
over a multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route =
preference rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not =
advertised for TE purposes.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the =
same time we need ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each =
of areas. And what about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is =
meant in section 3?</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">thanks,</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Peter</span><br class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Thank you.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
style=3D"font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Thank =
you.<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=
=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Alexander,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 26/11/2020 17:58, =
Alexander Okonnikov wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">Hi WG,<br class=3D"">RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address =
to be encoded into Link Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address =
to be encoded into Link Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's =
IP address for multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like =
bug. Could someone comment on this?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D"">Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate =
ambiguity in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not =
perfect, but that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">thanks,<br class=3D"">Peter<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Thanks in advance.<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Lsr mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</blockquote></blockqu=
ote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
Thread-Index: AQHWxBVvmcttObV0lkektoHkq/Bmaqnb3tuAgAAQagCABIaugIAACIGAgAAaOoA=
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:00:44 +0000
Message-ID: <F386F007-BA51-44B6-9795-18DE3E564D75@cisco.com>
References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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From: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>
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To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Hi Acee,

RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for each =
multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate =
several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property =
of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF =
interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity =
in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address =
(one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again =
obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address =
(or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help here.

> 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, Van De Velde, =
Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):
>=20
> The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select =
remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link =
Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more complicated.
> I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the =
=E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it =
seems as a worse choice.
> =20
> A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV =
(RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA?
> =20
> Answer:
> For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the =
IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy)
> For numbered:
> we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link
> If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must be used =
to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the neighbor
> If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then the =
maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80=A6 =
This may give a match or no match
> If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the =
RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data
> =3D over-complex. (If we used  for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D =
local ip address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer directly)
> =20
> In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise =
local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address.
> I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after =
receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if =
multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create the =
correct key?
> =20
> Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for =
RFC5185 Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is =
adding OSPF complexity without benefits.
> =20
> Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use =
local-ip-address instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link =
Data and avoid the additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for =
numbered links?
> =20
> Brgds,
> G/
> =20
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01
> To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; Peter Psenak =
(ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
> =20
> Hi Alex,=20
> =20
> Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF =
MIB as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include =
the area. For example:
> =20
> --  OSPF Interface Table
> =20
>   ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE
>        SYNTAX       SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry
>        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible
>        STATUS       current
>        DESCRIPTION
>           "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces
>           from the viewpoint of OSPF.
>           It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information."
>        REFERENCE
>           "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3  Router interface
>           parameters"
>        ::=3D { ospf 7 }
> =20
>   ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE
>        SYNTAX       OspfIfEntry
>        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible
>        STATUS       current
>        DESCRIPTION
>           "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface
>           from the viewpoint of OSPF.
> =20
>           Information in this table is persistent and when this object
>           is written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile
>           storage."
>        INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf }
>        ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 }
> =20
> Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use =
a separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. =
My Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this.  =20
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> =20
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> on =
behalf of Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com =
<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>>
> Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM
> To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com =
<mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>>
> Cc: "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>" <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
> =20
> Hi Peter,
> =20
>=20
> 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):
> =20
> Hi Alex,
>=20
> On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>=20
> Hi Peter,
> Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point =
each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.
> Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:
> 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that =
multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in =
Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address =
(numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);
> 2) =46rom -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, =
but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather =
than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link =
look like unnumbered;
> 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more =
mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, =
another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link =
is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is =
unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link =
is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in =
RFC 5185. >
> Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area =
links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP =
address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. =46rom =
perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or =
unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding =
interface.
>=20
> you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not =
mandating to send IP address really.
> =20
> The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link =
as numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. =
And if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would =
not need RFC 5185 (section 1.2).
> =20
>=20
> One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop =
calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with =
numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will =
be its own IP interface address.
> Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC =
3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to =
calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router =
needs to match IGP link to TE link.
>=20
> I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a =
multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference =
rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised =
for TE purposes.
> =20
> Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need =
ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what =
about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section =
3?
> =20
> thanks,
> Peter
> =20
> Thank you.
> =20
>=20
> Thank you.
>=20
> 27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):
>=20
> Alexander,
>=20
> On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:
>=20
> Hi WG,
> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data =
field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?
>=20
> Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in =
case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but =
that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.
>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>=20
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr>

--Apple-Mail=_DD054582-A014-4CC6-AF11-30CB73D93E04
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
Acee,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for =
each multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate =
several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property =
of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF =
interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity =
in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address =
(one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again =
obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address =
(or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help here.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">30 =
=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, Van De Velde, =
Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com" =
class=3D"">gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com</a>&gt; =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The =
oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select =
remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link =
Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more complicated.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I am =
surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the =
=E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it =
seems as a worse choice.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">A question that was asked: How router will be able to match =
Link TLV (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Answer:<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">For =
unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the IfIndex =
when there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">For =
numbered:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><ol start=3D"1" type=3D"1" =
style=3D"margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=3D""><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">we must first look if the there =
is a stub type 3 link<o:p class=3D""></o:p></li><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If stub type 3 exists, then the =
RFC3630 local ip address must be used to identify the correspond link =
within the router TLV to the neighbor<o:p class=3D""></o:p></li><li =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If the stub type 3 link did not =
exist in Router TLV link, then the maybe the link is unnumbered, and we =
try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a match or no match<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">If =
there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the =
RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">=3D =
over-complex. (If we used &nbsp;for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D local =
ip address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer directly)<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></li></ol><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">In =
addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise =
local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address.<span =
style=3D"color: red;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">I also believe that if we want to =
search something in TEDB after receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we =
identify from the TE Link TLV if multi-area or not multi-area? If we can =
not, then how can we create the correct key?<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Looking =
at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 Link =
Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF =
complexity without benefits.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 =
and simply use local-ip-address instead of the remote-ip-address for =
Multi-area Link Data and avoid the additional unnecessary complexity the =
current RFC for numbered links?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Brgds,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">G/<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: =
3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">From:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Lsr=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, November 30, 2020 =
18:01<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alexander Okonnikov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" =
class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Lsr] Link Data value =
for Multi-area links<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi Alex,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Multi-Area =
interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB as =
specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include the =
area. For example:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">--&nbsp; OSPF Interface Table<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp; ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;&nbsp; =
not-accessible<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "The =
OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from =
the viewpoint of OSPF.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It =
augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information."<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REFERENCE<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "OSPF =
Version 2, Appendix C.3&nbsp; Router interface<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
parameters"<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { ospf 7 }<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp; =
ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OspfIfEntry<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;&nbsp; =
not-accessible<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; current<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "The =
OSPF interface entry describes one interface<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from =
the viewpoint of OSPF.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Information in this table is persistent and when this object<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
storage."<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color: red;" =
class=3D"">INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf }<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 =
}<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Note that =
if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a separate =
subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My =
Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Thanks,<o:p=
 class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Acee<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Alexander Okonnikov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Monday, November 30, =
2020 at 5:27 AM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"Peter Psenak =
(ppsenak)" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>"<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a>" &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D""><b =
class=3D"">Subject:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Re: [Lsr] Link Data =
value for Multi-area links<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Hi Peter,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 =
12:56, Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=
=BB(=D0=B0):<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">Hi Alex,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov =
wrote:</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">Hi Peter,<br class=3D"">Which =
kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point each link =
has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.<br class=3D"">Per=
 my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:<br =
class=3D"">1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed =
that multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded =
in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP =
address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);<br class=3D"">2) =46rom =
-06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if =
interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than =
local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look =
like unnumbered;<br class=3D"">3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC =
5185 itself there is no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated =
as unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's interface =
is numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's interface is =
unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting =
corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also =
removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. &gt;<br class=3D"">Hence, in version =
-09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links Link Data for =
numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address to own IP =
address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. =46rom perspective of other =
routers this link can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on =
configuration of neighbor's corresponding interface.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">you are free to =
advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not mandating to send IP =
address really.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise =
the link as numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered =
indeed. And if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, =
we would not need RFC 5185 (section 1.2).<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; font-variant-caps: normal; =
text-align: start; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt =
0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">One question - how neighboring =
router will perform next-hop calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If =
neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data =
as IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface address.<br =
class=3D"">Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV =
(RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to =
calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router =
needs to match IGP link to TE link.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">I don't believe =
you are going to do any traffic engineering over a multi-area adjacency. =
MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference rules that may lead =
to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised for TE =
purposes.</span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same =
time we need ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of =
areas. And what about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is =
meant in section 3?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" =
class=3D"">thanks,<br class=3D"">Peter</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Thank you.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" =
class=3D"">Thank you.<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=
=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=
=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Alexander,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">Hi WG,<br class=3D"">RFC 5185 =
says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data field. Per =
RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data. What is =
the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links and =
not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on =
this?<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate =
ambiguity in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not =
perfect, but that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">thanks,<br class=3D"">Peter<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: iAWriterMonoV-Regular, serif;" class=3D"">Thanks in =
advance.<br class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Lsr mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a></span></div></blo=
ckquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></b=
lockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
Thread-Index: AQHWxBVvmcttObV0lkektoHkq/Bmaqnb3tuAgAAQagCABIaugIAACIGAgAAaOoCAAFl0gP//s7KA
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:47:47 +0000
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
CC: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:57:57 +0000
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References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> <F386F007-BA51-44B6-9795-18DE3E564D75@cisco.com> <AM0PR07MB6386BE057F092AD0837FE299E0F50@AM0PR07MB6386.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <D9F406B7-793A-458D-AEA7-74E6746017F8@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" -  draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01
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Subject: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" - draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01
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To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
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Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" -  draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01
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Subject: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" - draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:21:47 -0500
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Subject: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Dear LSR WG experts,


Does anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6
flow label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing.

IPv6 flow label support for ECMP

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437

IPv4 has traditionally always utilized recommended BCP of flow based load
balancing due to issues related to out of order and reordering of packets.
Although per packet load balancing is supported by most vendors it is not
recommended due to forwarding plane impact.

This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant
advantages for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compare
to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing which=
 is the case as
well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.

IPv6 flow label has significant  benefits for operators deploying  SRv6
which utilizes the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D bui=
lt in ECMP
entropy as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4.

This gives SRv6 another significant edge over MPLS predecessor.

Excerpt from RFC 6437:

      Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
      depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
      any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
      bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
      the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
      and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
      Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
      the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
      occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.

   Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended
   below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe
   to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs
   to work even if the flow label value is zero.

   As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the
   use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.  In particular, a
   Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is
   acceptable.



Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label:



! MPLS Entropy label

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790



As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces
the control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data
structure by not having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by
adding an additional entropy label to the label stack.



However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or
session based load balancing algorithm which results in

uneven load balancing.



Kind Regards


Gyan



--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--0000000000000af2e305b558c3a6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Dear LSR WG experts,</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Does=
 anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6 flow =
label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing. =C2=A0<br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"border-color:rgb=
(0,0,0)">IPv6 flow label support for ECMP</div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"b=
order-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"border-color:r=
gb(0,0,0)"><div style=3D"border-color:rgb(0,0,0)"><a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/rfc6437">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437</a></div></div><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">IPv4 has traditionally a=
lways utilized recommended BCP of flow based load balancing due to issues r=
elated to out of order and reordering of packets.=C2=A0 Although per packet=
 load balancing is supported by most vendors it is not recommended due to f=
orwarding plane impact.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant advantage=
s for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compare to tradi=
tional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing which is the =
case as well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted bel=
ow.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">IPv6 flow label has =
significant =C2=A0benefits for operators deploying =C2=A0SRv6 which utilize=
s the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D built in ECMP en=
tropy as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4. =C2=A0</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This gives SRv6 another si=
gnificant edge over MPLS predecessor.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">Excerpt from RFC 6437:</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto">    =
  Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
      depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
      any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
      bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
      the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
      and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
      Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
      the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
      occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.

   Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended
   below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe
   to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs
   to work even if the flow label value is zero.

   As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the
   use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.  In particular, a
   Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is
   acceptable.</pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-to=
p:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace"><br></pre>=
<pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:=
0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpag=
e" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pag=
e;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto">Below comparison of IPv6 flow label b=
enefits over MPLS entropy label:</pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-=
size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:mon=
ospace"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:=
0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace"><br></pre><p=
re class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0p=
x;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto">! MPLS Entropy labe=
l </pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace"><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily:monospace"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790">https://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/rfc6790</a></div><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-famil=
y:monospace"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace"><br></p=
re><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bott=
om:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto">As a compariso=
n to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces the control plane l=
abel binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure by not having a per E=
CMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additional entropy label to =
the label stack.</pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-=
top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px=
;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto">However M=
PLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or session based load =
balancing algorithm which results in </pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"=
font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-famil=
y:monospace" dir=3D"auto">uneven load balancing.  </pre><pre class=3D"newpa=
ge" style=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:pa=
ge;font-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" sty=
le=3D"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font=
-family:monospace" dir=3D"auto"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"f=
ont-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family=
:monospace" dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards </pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D=
"font-size:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-fami=
ly:monospace" dir=3D"auto"><br></pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-s=
ize:1em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:mono=
space" dir=3D"auto">Gyan</pre><pre class=3D"newpage" style=3D"font-size:1em=
;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;font-family:monospace" =
dir=3D"auto"><br></pre></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><=
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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In-Reply-To: <6D7A677C-86BC-4A96-8C7B-70B0563631BE@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:51:29 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV3wDtsHp2FjmR8UZGVprAJ_zsk=cRD+DhKAYAzGm-6Nqw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/E_MKu-ahDm8gn4Jc9Y-rSmVf6UE>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Thanks Acee.

Gyan

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
> This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is the charter for the LS=
R
> WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/
>
> No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM
> *To: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP /
> LAG / MLAG hash
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear LSR WG experts,
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6
> flow label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label support for ECMP
>
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437
>
>
>
> IPv4 has traditionally always utilized recommended BCP of flow based load
> balancing due to issues related to out of order and reordering of packets=
.
> Although per packet load balancing is supported by most vendors it is not
> recommended due to forwarding plane impact.
>
>
>
> This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant
> advantages for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compa=
re
> to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing whi=
ch is the case as
> well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label has significant  benefits for operators deploying  SRv6
> which utilizes the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D b=
uilt in ECMP
> entropy as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4.
>
>
>
> This gives SRv6 another significant edge over MPLS predecessor.
>
>
>
> Excerpt from RFC 6437:
>
>
>
>       Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
>
>       depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
>
>       any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
>
>       bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
>
>       the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
>
>       and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
>
>       Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
>
>       the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
>
>       occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.
>
>
>
>    Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended
>
>    below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe
>
>    to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs
>
>    to work even if the flow label value is zero.
>
>
>
>    As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the
>
>    use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.  In particular, a
>
>    Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is
>
>    acceptable.
>
>
>
>
>
> Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label:
>
>
>
>
>
> ! MPLS Entropy label
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces the=
 control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure by no=
t having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additional e=
ntropy label to the label stack.
>
>
>
>
>
> However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or session =
based load balancing algorithm which results in
>
> uneven load balancing.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike  *Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000044d9005b55944ca
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Acee.<div><br></div><div>Gyan</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 30, =
2020 at 3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">ac=
ee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3795903967786582340WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is t=
he charter for the LSR WG: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/a=
bout/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/</a><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6 <u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; o=
n behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP =
/ LAG / MLAG hash<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Dear LSR WG experts,<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Does anyone know if vend=
ors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6 flow label 5-tuple dscp m=
arking for ECMP hashing. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv6 flow label support =
for ECMP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc6437" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc64=
37</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv4 has traditionally a=
lways utilized recommended BCP of flow based load balancing due to issues r=
elated to out of order and reordering of packets.=C2=A0 Although per packet=
 load balancing is supported by most vendors
 it is not recommended due to forwarding plane impact.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This IPv6 flow label fea=
ture of 5-tuple hash provides significant advantages for operators much nee=
ded ECMP load balancing entropy as compare to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or =
session=E2=80=9D based load balancing which is the case
 as well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv6 flow label has sign=
ificant =C2=A0benefits for operators deploying =C2=A0SRv6 which utilizes th=
e IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D built in ECMP entrop=
y as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4. =C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This gives SRv6 another =
significant edge over MPLS predecessor.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Excerpt from RFC 6437:<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Forwarding nodes such as routers and =
load distributors MUST NOT<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly dist=
ributed.=C2=A0 In<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, t=
he Flow Label<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other s=
ources within<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value fo=
r each flow<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and a suitable distribution of hash values across flo=
ws.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Typically, the other fields used will be some or all =
components of<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the usual 5-tuple.=C2=A0 In this way, load distributi=
on will still<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distri=
buted.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended<u></u>=
<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe<u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs<u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 to work even if the flow label value is zero.<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the<u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.=C2=A0 In particular, =
a<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is<u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 acceptable.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label=
:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">! MPLS Entropy label <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduce=
s the control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure =
by not having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additio=
nal entropy label to the label stack.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or ses=
sion based load balancing algorithm which results in <u></u><u></u></span><=
/pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">uneven load balancing.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Kind Regards <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Gyan<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"gmail-m_379590396778658=
2340_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black">Silver Spring, MD<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000044d9005b55944ca--


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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Flooding Topology Minimum Degree Algorithm
        Authors         : Huaimo Chen
                          Mehmet Toy
                          Yi Yang
                          Aijun Wang
                          Xufeng Liu
                          Yanhe Fan
                          Lei Liu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree-01.txt
	Pages           : 12
	Date            : 2020-11-30

Abstract:
   This document proposes an algorithm for a node to compute a flooding
   topology, which is a subgraph of the complete topology per underline
   physical network.  When every node in an area automatically
   calculates a flooding topology by using a same algorithm and floods
   the link states using the flooding topology, the amount of flooding
   traffic in the network is greatly reduced.  This would reduce
   convergence time with a more stable and optimized routing
   environment.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-topo-min-degree-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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In-Reply-To: <6D7A677C-86BC-4A96-8C7B-70B0563631BE@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:16:41 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV1h2B5VZNBcZmMT0ysFTCfqnU+nVCS-x01tDR_UUmyDwg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/6VFSdC8N34sU-7wKxQ8K2PxvNRc>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Hi Acee

6MAN deals with the IPv6 protocol specifications and not routing protocols
in the ECMP load balancing framework.

6MAN would not have any idea if ISIS or OSPF AFI IPv6 5-tuple ECMP load
balancing is supported and industry direction to support this critical
feature from a IGP perspective.

This question posed is in the context of LSR IGP load balancing framework,
OSPF & ISIS  AFI IPv6 use of RFC 6437 for 5-tuple hash ECMP load balancing
for even 50/50 load balancing hash as opposed to router default flow or
session based load balancing.

Any feedback related in this context is  much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
> This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is the charter for the LS=
R
> WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/
>
> No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM
> *To: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP /
> LAG / MLAG hash
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear LSR WG experts,
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6
> flow label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label support for ECMP
>
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437
>
>
>
> IPv4 has traditionally always utilized recommended BCP of flow based load
> balancing due to issues related to out of order and reordering of packets=
.
> Although per packet load balancing is supported by most vendors it is not
> recommended due to forwarding plane impact.
>
>
>
> This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant
> advantages for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compa=
re
> to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing whi=
ch is the case as
> well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label has significant  benefits for operators deploying  SRv6
> which utilizes the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D b=
uilt in ECMP
> entropy as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4.
>
>
>
> This gives SRv6 another significant edge over MPLS predecessor.
>
>
>
> Excerpt from RFC 6437:
>
>
>
>       Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
>
>       depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
>
>       any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
>
>       bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
>
>       the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
>
>       and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
>
>       Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
>
>       the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
>
>       occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.
>
>
>
>    Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended
>
>    below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe
>
>    to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs
>
>    to work even if the flow label value is zero.
>
>
>
>    As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the
>
>    use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.  In particular, a
>
>    Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is
>
>    acceptable.
>
>
>
>
>
> Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label:
>
>
>
>
>
> ! MPLS Entropy label
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces the=
 control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure by no=
t having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additional e=
ntropy label to the label stack.
>
>
>
>
>
> However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or session =
based load balancing algorithm which results in
>
> uneven load balancing.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike  *Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--00000000000025f11405b5599e73
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Acee<div><br></div><div>6MAN deals with the IPv6 protoc=
ol specifications and not routing protocols in the ECMP load balancing fram=
ework.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>6MAN would not have any idea if=
 ISIS or OSPF AFI IPv6 5-tuple ECMP load balancing is supported and industr=
y direction to support this critical feature from a IGP perspective.=C2=A0<=
/div><div><br></div><div>This question posed is in the context of LSR IGP l=
oad balancing framework, OSPF &amp; ISIS=C2=A0 AFI IPv6 use of RFC 6437 for=
 5-tuple hash ECMP load balancing for even 50/50 load balancing hash as opp=
osed to router default flow or session based load balancing.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Any feedback related in this context is=C2=A0 much appreciated.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Kind Regards</div><div><br></div><div>Gyan<=
/div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3795903967786582340WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is t=
he charter for the LSR WG: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/a=
bout/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/</a><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6 <u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; o=
n behalf of Gyan Mishra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP =
/ LAG / MLAG hash<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Dear LSR WG experts,<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Does anyone know if vend=
ors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6 flow label 5-tuple dscp m=
arking for ECMP hashing. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv6 flow label support =
for ECMP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<div style=3D"border:1pt none black;padding:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><a href=3D"https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/rfc6437" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc64=
37</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv4 has traditionally a=
lways utilized recommended BCP of flow based load balancing due to issues r=
elated to out of order and reordering of packets.=C2=A0 Although per packet=
 load balancing is supported by most vendors
 it is not recommended due to forwarding plane impact.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This IPv6 flow label fea=
ture of 5-tuple hash provides significant advantages for operators much nee=
ded ECMP load balancing entropy as compare to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or =
session=E2=80=9D based load balancing which is the case
 as well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">IPv6 flow label has sign=
ificant =C2=A0benefits for operators deploying =C2=A0SRv6 which utilizes th=
e IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D built in ECMP entrop=
y as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4. =C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This gives SRv6 another =
significant edge over MPLS predecessor.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Excerpt from RFC 6437:<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Forwarding nodes such as routers and =
load distributors MUST NOT<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly dist=
ributed.=C2=A0 In<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, t=
he Flow Label<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other s=
ources within<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value fo=
r each flow<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and a suitable distribution of hash values across flo=
ws.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Typically, the other fields used will be some or all =
components of<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the usual 5-tuple.=C2=A0 In this way, load distributi=
on will still<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distri=
buted.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended<u></u>=
<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe<u=
></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs<u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 to work even if the flow label value is zero.<u></u><u></u></span></pre=
>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the<u>=
</u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.=C2=A0 In particular, =
a<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is<u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 acceptable.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label=
:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">! MPLS Entropy label <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790</a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduce=
s the control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure =
by not having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additio=
nal entropy label to the label stack.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or ses=
sion based load balancing algorithm which results in <u></u><u></u></span><=
/pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">uneven load balancing.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Kind Regards <u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt">Gyan<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"gmail-m_379590396778658=
2340_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black">Silver Spring, MD<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000025f11405b5599e73--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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References: <CABNhwV3FGcEarfQH-SVuCCdgkNJnODwRrLSK3XhefQkt1Pws0A@mail.gmail.com> <6D7A677C-86BC-4A96-8C7B-70B0563631BE@cisco.com> <CABNhwV1h2B5VZNBcZmMT0ysFTCfqnU+nVCS-x01tDR_UUmyDwg@mail.gmail.com> <B48A8996-0E10-4818-81BC-47E1F2141244@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <B48A8996-0E10-4818-81BC-47E1F2141244@cisco.com>
From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:32:30 -0500
Message-ID: <CABNhwV1meUxzqWxrL7RzL-zjZ+eq+pkPPoFJger9juiiiDJzzg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/ddDyrAbsbwWQAJdNH0sWk1gaIzo>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP / LAG / MLAG hash
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Understood.  I think the gap as you stated as far as ECMP hash algorithm
for IPv6 is vendor specific implementation which is independent of LSR.
This is a vendor implementation question and not a LSR question.

Cheers,

Gyan

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 4:28 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> There is nothing in OSPF or IS-IS protocols related to the ECMP
> load-balancing with respect to the flow label. RFC 6437 is an IPv6 WG
> (predecessor of 6MAN) document. Are you just trying to torment me =F0=9F=
=98=89
>
>
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From: *Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 4:23 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Cc: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP
> / LAG / MLAG hash
>
>
>
> Hi Acee
>
>
>
> 6MAN deals with the IPv6 protocol specifications and not routing protocol=
s
> in the ECMP load balancing framework.
>
>
>
> 6MAN would not have any idea if ISIS or OSPF AFI IPv6 5-tuple ECMP load
> balancing is supported and industry direction to support this critical
> feature from a IGP perspective.
>
>
>
> This question posed is in the context of LSR IGP load balancing framework=
,
> OSPF & ISIS  AFI IPv6 use of RFC 6437 for 5-tuple hash ECMP load balancin=
g
> for even 50/50 load balancing hash as opposed to router default flow or
> session based load balancing.
>
>
>
> Any feedback related in this context is  much appreciated.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:
>
> Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:
>
>
>
> Hi Gyan,
>
> This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is the charter for the LS=
R
> WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/
>
> No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Gyan Mishra <
> hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM
> *To: *lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP /
> LAG / MLAG hash
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear LSR WG experts,
>
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6
> flow label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label support for ECMP
>
>
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437
>
>
>
> IPv4 has traditionally always utilized recommended BCP of flow based load
> balancing due to issues related to out of order and reordering of packets=
.
> Although per packet load balancing is supported by most vendors it is not
> recommended due to forwarding plane impact.
>
>
>
> This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant
> advantages for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compa=
re
> to traditional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing whi=
ch is the case as
> well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load balancing contrasted below.
>
>
>
> IPv6 flow label has significant  benefits for operators deploying  SRv6
> which utilizes the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D b=
uilt in ECMP
> entropy as part of the protocol as compare to its predecessor IPv4.
>
>
>
> This gives SRv6 another significant edge over MPLS predecessor.
>
>
>
> Excerpt from RFC 6437:
>
>
>
>       Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
>
>       depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
>
>       any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
>
>       bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
>
>       the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
>
>       and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
>
>       Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
>
>       the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
>
>       occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.
>
>
>
>    Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended
>
>    below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe
>
>    to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs
>
>    to work even if the flow label value is zero.
>
>
>
>    As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the
>
>    use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.  In particular, a
>
>    Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is
>
>    acceptable.
>
>
>
>
>
> Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label:
>
>
>
>
>
> ! MPLS Entropy label
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces the=
 control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure by no=
t having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additional e=
ntropy label to the label stack.
>
>
>
>
>
> However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or session =
based load balancing algorithm which results in
>
> uneven load balancing.
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
>
>
> Gyan
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Error! Filename not specified.* <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike  *Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> [image: Image removed by sender.] <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions Architect *
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347 13101 Columbia Pike  *Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>


--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *



*M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD

--000000000000d3471405b55b83f1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Understood.=C2=A0 I think the gap as you stated as far as =
ECMP hash algorithm for IPv6 is vendor=C2=A0specific implementation which i=
s independent of LSR.=C2=A0 This is a vendor implementation question and no=
t a LSR question.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Gyan<=
/div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 4:28 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-2455453074639104691WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is nothing in OSPF or IS-IS protocols related =
to the ECMP load-balancing with respect to the flow label. RFC 6437 is an I=
Pv6 WG (predecessor of 6MAN) document. Are you just trying to torment me
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;">=F0=9F=98=89</spa=
n> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Gyan Mishra &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusagsm@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 4:23 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple E=
CMP / LAG / MLAG hash<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Acee<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">6MAN deals with the IPv6=
 protocol specifications and not routing protocols in the ECMP load balanci=
ng framework.=C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">6MAN would not have any =
idea if ISIS or OSPF AFI IPv6 5-tuple ECMP load balancing is supported and =
industry direction to support this critical feature from a IGP perspective.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This question posed is i=
n the context of LSR IGP load balancing framework, OSPF &amp; ISIS=C2=A0 AF=
I IPv6 use of RFC 6437 for 5-tuple hash ECMP load balancing for even 50/50 =
load balancing hash as opposed to router default
 flow or session based load balancing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Any feedback related in =
this context is=C2=A0 much appreciated.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Kind Regards<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Gyan<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at =
3:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Speaking as LSR Co-Chair:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Hi Gyan, <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
This is more a discussion for the 6MAN WG. Here is the charter for the LSR =
WG: <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/" target=3D"_blank=
">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/lsr/about/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
No need to cross-post to the LSR list=E2=80=A6 <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
Acee<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style=
=3D"font-size:12pt;color:black">Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Gyan Mishr=
a &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">hayabusags=
m@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] IPv6 Flow Label QOS marking support for 5-tuple ECMP =
/ LAG / MLAG hash</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Dear LSR WG experts,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Does anyone know if vendors have started or plan to start supporting IPv6 f=
low label 5-tuple dscp marking for ECMP hashing. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
IPv6 flow label support for ECMP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437" target=3D"_blank">https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc6437</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
IPv4 has traditionally always utilized recommended BCP of flow based load b=
alancing due to issues related to out of order and reordering of packets.=
=C2=A0 Although per packet load balancing is supported by most vendors it i=
s not recommended due to forwarding plane
 impact.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This IPv6 flow label feature of 5-tuple hash provides significant advantage=
s for operators much needed ECMP load balancing entropy as compare to tradi=
tional =E2=80=9Cflow or session=E2=80=9D based load balancing which is the =
case as well with MPLS entropy label RFC 6790 load
 balancing contrasted below.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
IPv6 flow label has significant =C2=A0benefits for operators deploying =C2=
=A0SRv6 which utilizes the IPv6 data plane to now have =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=
=80=9D built in ECMP entropy as part of the protocol as compare to its pred=
ecessor IPv4. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
This gives SRv6 another significant edge over MPLS predecessor.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
Excerpt from RFC 6437:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Forwarding nodes such as routers and lo=
ad distributors MUST NOT</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distrib=
uted.=C2=A0 In</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the =
Flow Label</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sour=
ces within</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for e=
ach flow</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.=
</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Typically, the other fields used will be some or all com=
ponents of</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 the usual 5-tuple.=C2=A0 In this way, load distribution =
will still</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distribut=
ed.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Although uniformly distributed flow label values are recommended</span><u><=
/u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
below, and will always be helpful for load distribution, it is unsafe</span=
><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
to assume their presence in the general case, and the use case needs</span>=
<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
to work even if the flow label value is zero.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
As a general practice, packet flows should not be reordered, and the</span>=
<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
use of the Flow Label field does not affect this.=C2=A0 In particular, a</s=
pan><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Flow label value of zero does not imply that reordering is</span><u></u><u>=
</u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
acceptable.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">Below comparison of IPv6 flow label benefits over MPLS entropy label:<=
/span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">! MPLS Entropy label </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790</a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span>=
<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">As a comparison to MPLS entropy label, the mpls entropy label reduces =
the control plane label binding and LFIB forwarding plane data structure by=
 not having a per ECMP path label allocation per FEC by adding an additiona=
l entropy label to the label stack.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">However MPLS entropy label is still uses the traditional flow or sessi=
on based load balancing algorithm which results in </span><u></u><u></u></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">uneven load balancing.=C2=A0 </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">Kind Regards </span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">Gyan</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:1in;break-before:page"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D=
"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,=
204);border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><b>Error=
! Filename not specified.</b></span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:1in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:1in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:1in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black">Silver Spring, MD</span><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><br clear=3D"all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=
=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt=
 solid windowtext;padding:0in"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"81" height=3D"18"=
 style=3D"width: 0.8437in; height: 0.1875in;" id=3D"gmail-m_-24554530746391=
04691_x0000_i1025" alt=3D"Image removed by sender."></span></span></a><u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Gyan Mishra</sp=
an></b><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">Network Solutions =
Architect=C2=A0</span></i><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0.5in">
<i><span style=3D"font-family:Georgia,serif;color:black">M 301 502-1347<br>
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0<br>
</span></i><span style=3D"color:black">Silver Spring, MD<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=
=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bottom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D=
"_blank"><img src=3D"http://ss7.vzw.com/is/image/VerizonWireless/vz-logo-em=
ail" width=3D"81" height=3D"18" style=3D"height: 18px; width: 81px;"></a><b=
r></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;font-family:&quot;Verizon NHG DS=
&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b></p=
><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font face=3D=
"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutions A=
</i></font><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"georgia, serif"><i>rchitect=C2=
=A0</i></font></p><p style=3D"font-size:1em;margin:0px;line-height:13px;col=
or:black"><i><font face=3D"georgia, serif">M 301 502-1347<br>13101 Columbia=
 Pike=C2=A0<br></font></i>Silver Spring, MD</p></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--000000000000d3471405b55b83f1--


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'Alexander Okonnikov'" <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>, "'Van De Velde, Gunter \(Nokia - BE/Antwerp\)'" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/XN2VPxkzXH-NXVB6FhinnZYbhjM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links
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Hi,=20

=20

How about using the stub-link that we proposed and discussed at =
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHGFfhg/ =
to solve the scenario that described in RFC5185?

The possible solution is the following:

1)     The ABR form only the normal adjacency within the backbone area.

2)     For other area(for example, area 1) that they belong, each of =
them advertise the stub-link TLV, which include the network prefix that =
other area(area 1) belongs to, and also the metric to such prefix.

3)     The OSPF treat the prefixes within this stub-link TLV as the =
intra-area prefix in other area(area 1) and will prefer to using them =
over the inter-area prefix in the non-multi-area solution.

4)     More areas can be configured on such ABRs, eliminate the =
necessary to configure interface address within each area, also =
eliminate the ambiguity for using the remote peer address to =
differentiate the different adjacency.

5)     It is also easy to correlate such link information with the TE =
information that advertised in RFC3630.

Are the above proposal acceptable?

=20

Best Regards

=20

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

=20

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee =
Lindem (acee)
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:58 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; Van De Velde, =
Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=20

Speaking on WG member:

=20

Hi Alex,=20

I knew this was coming. In 2008, 99.9% of the requirements were handled =
by supporting an interface in a primary area and one other area. Using =
the remote IP address for the other area does handle this case. As I =
stated previously, if you support OSPF adjacencies on secondary IP =
addresses, the MIB and other complexities are all taken care of and that =
would be the solution that I would recommend. However, if you guys want =
to spend time trying to improve RFC5185, you are perfectly welcome to =
submit a draft.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

From: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com =
<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> >
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:47 PM
To: Gunter Van de Velde <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com =
<mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> >
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com> >, "Peter Psenak =
(ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> >, =
"lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> " <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=20

Hi Acee,

=20

RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for each =
multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate =
several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property =
of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF =
interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity =
in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address =
(one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again =
obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address =
(or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help here.

=20

30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, Van De Velde, =
Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com =
<mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> > =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

=20

The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select =
remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link =
Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more complicated.

I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the =
=E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it =
seems as a worse choice.

=20

A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV =
(RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA?

=20

Answer:

For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the =
IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy)

For numbered:

1.       we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link

2.       If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must =
be used to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the =
neighbor

3.       If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then =
the maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon =
IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a match or no match

4.       If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must =
use the RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data

5.       =3D over-complex. (If we used  for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =
=3D local ip address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer directly)

=20

In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise =
local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address.

I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after =
receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if =
multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create the =
correct key?

=20

Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 =
Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF =
complexity without benefits.

=20

Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use local-ip-address =
instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link Data and avoid the =
additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links?

=20

Brgds,

G/

=20

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > On =
Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com =
<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> >; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) =
<ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> >
Cc: lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org>=20
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=20

Hi Alex,=20

=20

Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB =
as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include the =
area. For example:

=20

--  OSPF Interface Table

=20

  ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE

       SYNTAX       SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry

       MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible

       STATUS       current

       DESCRIPTION

          "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces

          from the viewpoint of OSPF.

          It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information."

       REFERENCE

          "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3  Router interface

          parameters"

       ::=3D { ospf 7 }

=20

  ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE

       SYNTAX       OspfIfEntry

       MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible

       STATUS       current

       DESCRIPTION

          "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface

          from the viewpoint of OSPF.

=20

          Information in this table is persistent and when this object

          is written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile

          storage."

       INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf }

       ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 }

=20

Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a =
separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My =
Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this.  =20

=20

Thanks,

Acee

=20

=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> > on =
behalf of Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com =
<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> >
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com =
<mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> >
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> " <lsr@ietf.org =
<mailto:lsr@ietf.org> >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=20

Hi Peter,

=20

30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> > =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

=20

Hi Alex,

On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:

Hi Peter,
Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point =
each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.
Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:
1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that =
multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in =
Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address =
(numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);
2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but =
if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than =
local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look =
like unnumbered;
3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more =
mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, =
another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link =
is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is =
unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link =
is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in =
RFC 5185. >
Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area =
links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP =
address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. From =
perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or =
unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding =
interface.


you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not =
mandating to send IP address really.

=20

The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as =
numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And =
if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not =
need RFC 5185 (section 1.2).

=20

One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation =
(in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered =
interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own =
IP interface address.
Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) =
to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate =
RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to =
match IGP link to TE link.


I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a =
multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference =
rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised =
for TE purposes.

=20

Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need =
ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what =
about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section =
3?

=20

thanks,
Peter

=20

Thank you.

=20

Thank you.

27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak =
<ppsenak@cisco.com <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> > =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alexander,

On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:

Hi WG,
RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data =
field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?


Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in =
case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but =
that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug.

thanks,
Peter



Thanks in advance.
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>=20
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

=20


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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
i, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>H=
ow about using the stub-link that we proposed and discussed at <a =
href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHG=
Ffhg/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHGF=
fhg/</a> to solve the scenario that described in =
RFC5185?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he possible solution is the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he ABR form only the normal adjacency within the backbone =
area.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>F=
or other area(for example, area 1) that they belong, each of them =
advertise the stub-link TLV, which include the network prefix that other =
area(area 1) belongs to, and also the metric to such =
prefix.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>T=
he OSPF treat the prefixes within this stub-link TLV as the intra-area =
prefix in other area(area 1) and will prefer to using them over the =
inter-area prefix in the non-multi-area =
solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>M=
ore areas can be configured on such ABRs, eliminate the necessary to =
configure interface address within each area, also eliminate the =
ambiguity for using the remote peer address to differentiate the =
different adjacency.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>I=
t is also easy to correlate such link information with the TE =
information that advertised in RFC3630.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
re the above proposal acceptable?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>B=
est Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>A=
ijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'>C=
hina Telecom</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=E7=AD=89=E7=BA=BF;color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> lsr-bounces@ietf.org =
&lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:58 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
Alexander Okonnikov &lt;alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com&gt;; Van De Velde, =
Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) =
&lt;gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> lsr@ietf.org; Peter =
Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;ppsenak@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] =
Link Data value for Multi-area links<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Speaking on WG member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Alex, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I knew this was coming. In 2008, 99.9% of the requirements =
were handled by supporting an interface in a primary area and one other =
area. Using the remote IP address for the other area does handle this =
case. As I stated previously, if you support OSPF adjacencies on =
secondary IP addresses, the MIB and other complexities are all taken =
care of and that would be the solution that I would recommend. However, =
if you guys want to spend time trying to improve RFC5185, you are =
perfectly welcome to submit a draft. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.91gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Alexander Okonnikov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com">alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:47 =
PM<br><b>To: </b>Gunter Van de Velde &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com">gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c=
om</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Acee Lindem &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Peter =
Psenak (ppsenak)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
[Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area =
links<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Acee,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for =
each multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate =
several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property =
of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF =
interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity =
in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address =
(one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again =
obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address =
(or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help =
here.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:57.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para=
-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, =
Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com">gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c=
om</a>&gt; =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to =
select remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =
=E2=80=98Link Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more =
complicated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is =
seen as the =E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting =
local-ip-address. To me it seems as a worse =
choice.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>A question that was asked: How router will be able to match =
Link TLV (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router =
LSA?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Answer:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV =
using the IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link =
(=3Deasy)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>For numbered:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin=
-left:93.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin=
-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:6.82gd;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>we must first look if =
the there is a stub type 3 link<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin=
-left:93.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin=
-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:6.82gd;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>If stub type 3 exists, =
then the RFC3630 local ip address must be used to identify the =
correspond link within the router TLV to the =
neighbor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin=
-left:93.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin=
-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:6.82gd;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>If the stub type 3 =
link did not exist in Router TLV link, then the maybe the link is =
unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a =
match or no match<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin=
-left:93.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin=
-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:6.82gd;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>If there is no match, =
then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the RFC3630 remote IP =
address to match upon the Link Data<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin=
-left:93.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin=
-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:0cm;mso-para-margin-left:6.82gd;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US>=3D over-complex. (If =
we used &nbsp;for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D local ip =
address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer =
directly)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and =
advertise local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a =
remote-ip-address.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB =
after receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV =
if multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create =
the correct key?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address =
for RFC5185 Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is =
adding OSPF complexity without =
benefits.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use =
local-ip-address instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link =
Data and avoid the additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for =
numbered links?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Brgds,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>G/<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span class=3Dapple-converted-space><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US>Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Acee Lindem =
(acee)<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Monday, November 30, 2020 =
18:01<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Alexander Okonnikov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com">alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b>=
<span class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span>Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for =
Multi-area links<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Alex,<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support =
the OSPF MIB as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing =
doesn=E2=80=99t include the area. For =
example:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>--&nbsp; OSPF Interface =
Table<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; ospfIfTable =
OBJECT-TYPE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SEQUENCE OF =
OspfIfEntry<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;&nbsp; =
not-accessible<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
current<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
DESCRIPTION<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;The OSPF Interface Table describes the =
interfaces<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from =
the viewpoint of OSPF.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It =
augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific =
information.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
REFERENCE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3&nbsp; Router =
interface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
parameters&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { ospf 7 =
}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp; ospfIfEntry =
OBJECT-TYPE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
SYNTAX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
OspfIfEntry<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MAX-ACCESS&nbsp;&nbsp; =
not-accessible<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
STATUS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
current<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
DESCRIPTION<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;The OSPF interface entry describes one =
interface<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; from =
the viewpoint of OSPF.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Information in this table is persistent and when this =
object<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is =
written the entity SHOULD save the change to =
non-volatile<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
storage.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D'color:red'>INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf =
}</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 =
}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you =
could use a separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary =
addresses. My Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. =
&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><div style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>From:<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on =
behalf of Alexander Okonnikov &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com">alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Monday, November 30, 2020 =
at 5:27 AM<br><b>To:<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>&quot;Peter Psenak =
(ppsenak)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:<spa=
n class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>&quot;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:<span =
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></b>Re: [Lsr] Link Data value =
for Multi-area links</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, =
Peter Psenak &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div></div><div style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>Hi =
Alex,<br><br>On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>Hi =
Peter,<br>Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered =
point-to-point each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no =
ambiguity.<br>Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to =
follow reasons:<br>1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was =
proposed that multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be =
encoded in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own =
IP address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);<br>2) From -06 to -08 =
multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if interface is =
numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than local one) to be =
encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look like =
unnumbered;<br>3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself =
there is no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as =
unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's interface is =
numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's interface is =
unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting =
corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also =
removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. &gt;<br>Hence, in version -09 with =
removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links Link Data for numbered =
links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address to own IP address, as =
it is specified in RFC 2328. From perspective of other routers this link =
can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of =
neighbor's corresponding interface.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'><br>you are =
free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not mandating to =
send IP address really.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to =
advertise the link as numbered. This is straightforward when the link is =
numbered indeed. And if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered =
interfaces, we would not need RFC 5185 (section =
1.2).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps: =
normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>One question =
- how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation (in case it =
needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it =
will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface =
address.<br>Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV =
(RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to =
calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router =
needs to match IGP link to TE link.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'><br>I don't =
believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a multi-area =
adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference rules that =
may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised for TE =
purposes.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same =
time we need ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of =
areas. And what about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is =
meant in section 3?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>thanks,<br>Pe=
ter</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps: =
normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>Thank =
you.</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>27 =
=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
=D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<br><br>Alexander,<br>=
<br>On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>Hi =
WG,<br>RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link =
Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for =
multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could =
someone comment on this?</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;mar=
gin-left:92.95pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-par=
a-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:8.45gd'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'><br>Advertisi=
ng a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in case of =
parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but that's how it =
was specified. So it's not a =
bug.<br><br>thanks,<br>Peter<br><br></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:iAWriterMonoV-Regular'>Thanks in =
advance.<br>_______________________________________________<br>Lsr =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/lsr</a></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:57.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:5.18gd'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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