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draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 21:22:08 -0000 The LSR WG has placed draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Acee Lindem) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo/ From nobody Tue Dec 1 13:29:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA14B3A14CC for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, 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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y23sm649508pje.41.2020.12.01.13.29.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: Tony Li Message-Id: <6A5C09AF-4300-4328-8BF7-2627216B4DA8@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F5F4C649-BAD1-40BA-845E-6FCCC5127FE9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 13:29:36 -0800 In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> Cc: lsr To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 21:29:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F5F4C649-BAD1-40BA-845E-6FCCC5127FE9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I support adopting this draft. Traffic engineering without MPLS? Yes, = please. Tony > On Dec 1, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) = wrote: >=20 > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on = use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally = support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please = indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to = 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome. > Thanks, > Acee > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr = --Apple-Mail=_F5F4C649-BAD1-40BA-845E-6FCCC5127FE9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


I = support adopting this draft.  Traffic engineering without MPLS? =  Yes, please.

Tony


On Dec = 1, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of = discussion on use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was = generally support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption = call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this = list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. = Also, review comments are certainly welcome.
Thanks,
Acee
 
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= --Apple-Mail=_F5F4C649-BAD1-40BA-845E-6FCCC5127FE9-- From nobody Tue Dec 1 14:00:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7C43A1505 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:00:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uyQXuKiGhtdx for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:00:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB77F3A1501 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2c.google.com with SMTP id dm12so1655010qvb.3 for ; Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:00:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=URG5ljGoeZ7NOiPBT08DFTjmwZimz2C0M1NJlRTexrA=; b=tpIpRKA6qgQRPORtaPHXjYymlPFkFExxcQUx2DiylGOTHIvMSrLBqzIHK4agvkIbO3 1JYH2bpOoOCKdHSutvALKGADHoZ9ftooH0H8mXaafQutgi8mJnhhRLLgLFWVCutEUyP0 lBWcQfNMgkYqS3LlcBDTMAGR2o07hjmrNzMQsOxxRXibYTPc2QE5AxjXJ00quC+VV3+2 P4aywLObjaeateVwX9hH/eiHgVUyZD7wSeDgt4Ty93S8hAiCMqycAlmudISbBBxZTTkY cy86WDo1K2xlD/NUbFhg0vzxZg5p2dnK0ZF2V6ZDgvUNG6ko6wfpyVgXrmDpuq3MwX5t p1bQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=URG5ljGoeZ7NOiPBT08DFTjmwZimz2C0M1NJlRTexrA=; b=pdb1dYUL+ONRp22M0Qnox6W+OiMJ0baN3kpgskLvXpWqQxGDrvTewQHlclyXpVNr6o 5fMml3qnNEUYTNdGGBLvYp8jb7dYAPTizm24CK+hOrqVpksNwBnssx1mJ6+Ab+dQv1Uh nSDvF2Upespyn86ysak3gZWGlRMee/e9hN1+n63ny+4cflUpiQMNztHAUpjauj/mLD6u Y5VWC4lAq0CxAJgGfVLpKyoIshgCYN3R8Vo4sNEiiQfWzJ8Nwk27ffn9VKsqCVN4OyqZ CKgzq5AJHIzqIK7P19uUpmv1mE1Wu4op9dR2A+DfY5YrhZx6pp7JMNboCGGmkyefveT3 dUZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533uJ0W2JP1A0SqKu5d1UCIm+6GkKnhAf8jHfyWtjQY6VvNMaoA3 fOF4JfDa8s0p4sAKuQNqhuUlTzN42xoP X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2dzrv6P29wtkmveBGMLDVIAdpgfritoINpT7heYxD8WtRHZxAWWBGvhj+TNELvaeOuBYWpw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:18d0:: with SMTP id cy16mr5514920qvb.3.1606860023877; Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lp-sravi-w10.hq.corp.viasat.com ([8.37.110.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q32sm980134qtb.71.2020.12.01.14.00.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Yan Filyurin Message-Id: <9ED3FEA3-C08C-4AD8-9CEA-2C5D4E514098@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4D40F06B-2CFC-497F-A4C4-43B52AE1EF10" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:00:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: <6A5C09AF-4300-4328-8BF7-2627216B4DA8@tony.li> Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr To: Tony Li References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <6A5C09AF-4300-4328-8BF7-2627216B4DA8@tony.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 22:00:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4D40F06B-2CFC-497F-A4C4-43B52AE1EF10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would very much support and appreciate adoption as well for same = reasons. It would be amazing to have that option to segment large = backhaul networks without shims or encapsulations. More exploration of = what is described in section 8, in relationship to LFA would be of = interest. Yan Viasat > On Dec 1, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Tony Li wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > I support adopting this draft. Traffic engineering without MPLS? = Yes, please. >=20 > Tony >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 1, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) = > wrote: >>=20 >> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on = use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally = support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please = indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to = 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome. >> Thanks, >> Acee >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr = > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --Apple-Mail=_4D40F06B-2CFC-497F-A4C4-43B52AE1EF10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Would= very much support and appreciate adoption as well for same reasons. =  It would be amazing to have that option to segment large backhaul = networks without shims or encapsulations.  More exploration of what = is described in section 8, in relationship to LFA would be of = interest.

Yan

Viasat

On Dec 1, 2020, at 4:29 PM, = Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:



I support adopting = this draft.  Traffic engineering without MPLS?  Yes, = please.

Tony


On Dec 1, 2020, at 1:12 PM, = Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of = discussion on use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was = generally support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption = call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this = list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. = Also, review comments are certainly welcome.
Thanks,
Acee
 
_______________________________________________
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= --Apple-Mail=_4D40F06B-2CFC-497F-A4C4-43B52AE1EF10-- From nobody Tue Dec 1 14:22:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623183A0656 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:21:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3UcfNgHOrqQN for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B784C3A0822 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ClxR83lTxz6G99K; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:21:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1606861316; bh=9XlM89hIOu/18UWTgKo24RLvDZXibzH1kzMecOQSqxE=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=CG9wsC4M6oRZ5HW65lw18BALBYfpvCsF9s6q3+4oLpJTk4wh3HslmuKYhO8V/jY52 sN5XWzXskH8MhCgc2K5Q1kwX9NIL7yApIOntJPWDYwJq+dh0A8+otr825WOT/yz8ci iLM9t2IK2IsO4OuWfKt23imwjnwJFkWNHUPpeSJQ= X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.128.43] (unknown [50.225.209.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4ClxR74M85z6GSP7; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:21:54 -0800 (PST) To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <3ff40982-24fc-9eb3-92f9-0d1dc32bc7c4@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:21:53 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 22:22:06 -0000 I have read this draft, and followed the discussion on the list. This seems a useful and sensible piece of work. I support adoption. Yours, Joel On 12/1/2020 4:12 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use > cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support > for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please > indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to > 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are > certainly welcome. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Tue Dec 1 14:39:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D43A0937 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:39:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.086 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ff_hUA2C31An for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com (mail-pj1-x1034.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C60CA3A0940 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id m5so121530pjv.5 for ; Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version; bh=/ibvHUkD1PgDxofiVRy0U+arW5eK9cQbvcPEtiitRkE=; b=S37VvJNDntVefklQUxIkmMJtl2fE5nOpux2fycX8RwcWY0n407zA/xmR+/voW0rHdl 39mo4UMSyCWQrekmMnQcHOiveo31CyezC/okWS5Bavuzh2PDzhrq11GQvZUCeTtB+bHr jiRxzmQuVTRLhMDe8YqYRyb1FkhFoGEk5m2ofhIgC64UL7AySo+OeVN9/iMWkzf7gLhB Q7xLXQ1/EGLUQd5EYSgVa1zi1awC7oU9CT402G6CC2ZkeXPb49iBFKxpD/VRB+n0b27v Be0icbgvuIL/nyklRvmrF7uYuk/NwaG8xceTUkvRhb/vbNap/K11IO6QnFNRKJpTsill Cu5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references :subject:mime-version; bh=/ibvHUkD1PgDxofiVRy0U+arW5eK9cQbvcPEtiitRkE=; b=rTHwezWIRhidJ+3gUiXyBzp9p8MOlmk4zW8gynQPbD5wZ/fB9+NHMkXXXnB1x1cvF2 odMAoSijsc9ZBxHXOaBum0oss12fAIW3a7450923mubljS7BB8yNnyfUJ1aoHtOa4aBq /v7YFHY3TrURODLX7egrfkTZLT5s5Gh2I8BAULjxUsusbeZh0CTaP6G5gKRdbhOk+cJA sp06RYv7CNT1A68s3B+zaga/x6f/eqW/m0wguD67ANZy81oHCD/vdg0GixqeUzoDNpSv 0Kg/0t9cFWL/59f4vmyRFL17TcLtobwhnKcJrmOazNCXi5g2QqKzr1tj9JRXPrM5O20e SFNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533GL1xrLfbfUTMfJOiP3FhY1Evqp3rf+hVxc54mWMGrm5zPxAqW RpCR7q2HV5B1CYrFvpVb+3fZIT8vEdg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxCQ1ff9kRMHlq8MSqzX1nvEo9vfaBsMCXWax13m1PYeeofWQ1Og2Z6BQWD3xeBeljgOmaEZg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:b114:: with SMTP id z20mr4984524pjq.14.1606862368516; Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b5sm698205pfr.193.2020.12.01.14.39.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Dec 2020 14:39:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2020 14:39:08 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Message-ID: <6682145c-3751-434d-8cbc-98becf169870@Spark> In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 6682145c-3751-434d-8cbc-98becf169870@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5fc6c61c_3db012b3_14cdc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2020 22:39:34 -0000 --5fc6c61c_3db012b3_14cdc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes/support - very useful work! Cheers, Jeff On Dec 1, 2020, 1:13 PM -0800, Acee Lindem (acee) , wrote: > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. > Thanks, > Acee > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --5fc6c61c_3db012b3_14cdc Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Yes/support - very useful work=21

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 1, 2020, 1:13 PM -0800, Acee= Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

This IP =46= lex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and = deployment prior to IET=46 109 and there was generally support for WG ado= ption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your supp= ort or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on Dec= ember 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome.=

Thanks,

Acee

&=23160;<= /span>

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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yes/support

Cheers,
Jeff
On Nov 30, 2020, 10:15 AM -0800, Ac= ee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com=40dmarc.ietf.org>, wrote:

As stated= as the IET=46 109 LSR WG meeting, we feel the IS-IS reverse metric augme= ntation is ready for publication. This begins a two week last call for th= e subject draft. Please indicate your support or objection on this list p= rior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 15th, 2020. Also, review comm= ents are certainly welcome.

Thanks, Acee

&=23160;<= /span>

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Acee, I am aware of IPR. It has been filed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/43= 17/. Ron Juniper Business Use Only From: Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:21 PM To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Netwo= rks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Authors, Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Acee --_000_DM6PR05MB63481E01F42B1F234AEE2046AEF40DM6PR05MB6348namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Acee,

 

I am aware of IPR. = It has been filed at https://datatracker.ietf= .org/ipr/4317/.

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    Ron

 

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From:= Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:21 PM
To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm)= In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Authors= ,

&n= bsp;

Are you= aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01?&nbs= p;

 <= /span>

If so, = has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules <= span style=3D"color:black">

(see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 <= /span>

If you = are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

to this= email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any

relevan= t IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

list.* = The document will not advance to the next stage until a

respons= e has been received from each author and contributor.

 <= /span>

If you = are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or

contrib= utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

any IPR= that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

 <= /span>

Thanks,=

Acee

 <= /span>

 

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03:21:53 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCfsaiz8Ahj3Q0SL8k24JzHf+anjJBqQ Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 03:21:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.5.0.60 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-12-02T03:21:50Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; 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X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR05MB3576.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: da9732e4-c817-4bf5-0122-08d896716a3b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2020 03:21:52.9808 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: XptvqrswFrvdtLUuFmhhulZxOx4MxIdzP+svtQRjAe1T7+J8iwntFTc7vjNTlqKDlKT5C2mUrd30xQGw3D+zgA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB2919 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-12-01_12:2020-11-30, 2020-12-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012020019 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 03:21:58 -0000 --_000_CY4PR05MB35764C2041F91250E21862DCD5F30CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am not aware of any IPR, other than the one disclosed by Juniper. Rgds Shraddha Juniper Business Use Only From: Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:51 AM To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Netwo= rks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Authors, Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Acee --_000_CY4PR05MB35764C2041F91250E21862DCD5F30CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am not aware of a= ny IPR, other than the one disclosed by Juniper.

 

Rgds

Shraddha=

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From:= Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:51 AM
To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm)= In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Authors= ,

&n= bsp;

Are you= aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01?&nbs= p;

 <= /span>

If so, = has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules <= span style=3D"color:black">

(see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 <= /span>

If you = are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

to this= email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any

relevan= t IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

list.* = The document will not advance to the next stage until a

respons= e has been received from each author and contributor.

 <= /span>

If you = are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or

contrib= utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

any IPR= that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

 <= /span>

Thanks,=

Acee

 <= /span>

 

--_000_CY4PR05MB35764C2041F91250E21862DCD5F30CY4PR05MB3576namp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 2 00:52:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F0A3A09D7; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 00:52:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6XsTm4T6gE4N; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 00:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EDA13A09C1; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 00:52:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=998; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1606899163; x=1608108763; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hIppdt2lOG1/T3Qdwvp5EHwBJMfENiTpF2xGMTVghEw=; b=h/PSS8xhkRj6n5pBTJKGBPTfAlULlJxodtfjcWa2nIIhyLljTQH1orBU ITLdaqw8mbp8gdb+YxAz9dWmbGxKGilbeLEl9ulabD0esBzyLtSPcg1UK kzbfBoO/X4UQlyI15G6Zwn+BGvAH2jQ3DZpqZ+nZHwbXHlPHbOrxqs1/v I=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,386,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="31513166" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 02 Dec 2020 08:52:42 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B28qf8m011848; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 08:52:41 GMT To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 09:52:40 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 08:52:45 -0000 Hi Acee, I am not aware of any undisclosed IPRs related to this draft. thanks, Peter On 01/12/2020 22:21, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Authors, > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01? > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > > response has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > Thanks, > > Acee > From nobody Wed Dec 2 01:15:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D633A1239; 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Wed, 2 Dec 2020 09:14:59 +0000 From: William Britto A J To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCfsaiz8Ahj3Q0SL8k24JzHf+anjhuNj Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 09:14:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-12-02T09:14:55.5755045Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=0; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Privileged authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [116.197.184.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4642fe27-96c3-4454-d19c-08d896a2be15 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR05MB6476: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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boundary="_000_DM5PR0501MB380091F09B61C928CECFCB59CDF30DM5PR0501MB3800_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM5PR0501MB3800.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4642fe27-96c3-4454-d19c-08d896a2be15 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Dec 2020 09:14:58.9405 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gAwO8qAOsBB7Jd8j9QhJ4W0BHCFJWVqxIxvOqUfC2RcKbiUTONnAmzxh6sYCkiPzMYDXH326pj39ek+fw6U17w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR05MB6476 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-12-02_04:2020-11-30, 2020-12-02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012020054 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 09:15:06 -0000 --_000_DM5PR0501MB380091F09B61C928CECFCB59CDF30DM5PR0501MB3800_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Acee, I am not aware of any IPR, other than the one disclosed by Juniper. Regards, William From: Acee Lindem (acee) Date: Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 2:51 AM To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org Cc: lsr@ietf.org Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Netwo= rks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Authors, Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Acee Juniper Business Use Only --_000_DM5PR0501MB380091F09B61C928CECFCB59CDF30DM5PR0501MB3800_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Acee= ,

&n= bsp;

I am no= t aware of any IPR, other than the one disclosed by Juniper.

 <= /span>

Regards= ,

William=

 

 

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.co= m>
Date: Wednesday, 2 December 2020 at 2:51 AM
To: draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo@ietf.org <draft-bonica-lsr-ip-fl= exalgo@ietf.org>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: IPR Poll for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm)= In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Authors= ,

 <= /span>

Are you= aware of any IPR that applies to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01?&nbs= p;

 <= /span>

If so, = has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules <= o:p>

(see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

 <= /span>

If you = are listed as a document author or contributor please respond

to this= email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any<= /p>

relevan= t IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing

list.* = The document will not advance to the next stage until a

respons= e has been received from each author and contributor.

 <= /span>

If you = are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or=

contrib= utor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of

any IPR= that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

 <= /span>

Thanks,=

Acee

 <= /span>

 <= /o:p>


Juniper Business Use Only

--_000_DM5PR0501MB380091F09B61C928CECFCB59CDF30DM5PR0501MB3800_-- From nobody Wed Dec 2 01:50:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEF23A1273 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 01:50:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yrOezBjvuUdV for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 01:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A18E3A126D for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 01:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 93CAE61668; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 09:50:55 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Christian Hopps In-Reply-To: <96802546-1A33-47C7-BB2B-A6A9102FBFDC@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 04:50:53 -0500 Cc: Christian Hopps , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5BD660D5-BA8C-4FC0-9F70-98D2E40DF7EB@chopps.org> References: <96802546-1A33-47C7-BB2B-A6A9102FBFDC@cisco.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] IRP Poll for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" - draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 (Resent with Corrected Subject) X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 09:50:57 -0000 I am not aware of any IPR that applies to = draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01. This draft defines a YANG = model for the base work defined in RFC8500 which does have an IPR = disclosure. Thanks, Chris. > On Dec 1, 2020, at 4:20 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > Chris,=20 > =20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to = draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01? > =20 > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20= > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > =20 > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond > to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing > list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a > response has been received from each author and contributor. > =20 > If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF = rules. > =20 > Thanks, > Acee From nobody Wed Dec 2 09:30:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9948C3A1462; 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Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:30:07 +0000 From: Shraddha Hegde To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHWxtFOnDnJ15DSE0e6+Vz+PNT/vangFZeAgAATjKCAA+ZwsA== Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160671052823.23617.10172332926989361067@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.5.0.60 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-12-02T17:30:05Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=b1c50c4e-ff10-4bdb-b977-4e6e1514e7d6; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Les, Thanks for the review and comments. Pls see inline for replies. Juniper Business Use Only From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:44 AM To: Shraddha Hegde ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.t= xt [External Email. Be cautious of content] Draft authors - I note that as the draft has evolved over the years a number of mechanisms = have been removed (revised adjacency formation and auto tier detection) and= the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding optimizations. The draft now also references the recent work done in draft-ietf-lsr-dynami= c-flooding. A couple of things are not clear to me. 1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic= -flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusively - referring to how fl= ooding adapts to topology changes. It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are actually intending to use the= mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-f= looding-07#section-6.8 or whether you = simply want to use the Flooding sub-TLV defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-f= looding to (optionally??) advertise your algorithm and all other procedures= are specific to your algorithm. We want to use the " IS-IS Dynamic Flooding Sub-TLV" defined in = sec 5.1.2 of the lsr-dynamic-flooding draft just to flood the information that nodes support the algorithm specified in draft-white-lsr-distoptflood.= I agree it's not writen very well. I'll update that section in next versio= n. 2)The text at the end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distop= tflood-00#section-2.1 states: " LSPs transmitted to adjacent neighbors on the DNR list, however, MUST be transmitted using a circuit scope PDU as described in [RFC7356]." Although this text is not new to this revision, it raises a number of quest= ions/concerns - some of which relate to how this draft fits with draft-ietf= -lsr-dynamic-flooding. For "DNR neighbors", although a circuit scoped LSP was received, the actual= content is a traditional area scoped LSP. yes. This presumably needs to be used internally (e.g., when running the Decisio= n Process) in the same way as an area scoped LSP. yes. So there are now two internal databases (traditional area LSPs and Circuit = Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are a single database? Yes that is correct When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it include the LSPs it received a= s Circuit-Scoped LSPs? If not, how is resynchronization achieved when necessary? yes. CSNPs includes circuit scoped LSPs. Since you raised this point, I am thinking that we need a protocol extensio= n to indicate that "this circuit scoped LSP" should be treated In this special way. Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding why is the u= se of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful? I am not sure which base work you are suggesting to use. Could y= ou pls provide details? The flooding algorithm as written in the draft breaks if circuit scoped flo= oding is not done. Because, the distributed algorithm does not flood the LSP back in the direc= tion from where it was originated. In general, it would be helpful to more completely define the relationship = between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding. yes. I'll produce next version soon. Thanx. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr > On Behalf O= f Shraddha Hegde > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM > To: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptfl= ood- > 00.txt > > WG members, > > > We have posted new version of the draft-white-lsr-distoptflood. > This draft has been around for sometime by name openfabric and > draft-white-distoptflood. The current revision has the name changed > to reflect LSR WG. > This draft describes a flood reduction mechanism in ISIS which is based o= n > similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for mobile-ad-hoc Networks > ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]). > > Request working group to review and provide inputs. > > Rgds > Shraddha > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM > To: Shraddha Hegde >; R= uss White >; > Shawn Zandi > > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Shraddha Hegde and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Name: draft-white-lsr-distoptflood > Revision: 00 > Title: IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies > Document date: 2020-11-29 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 12 > URL: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-<= https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-lsr-= distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy8= 29PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO$> > lsr-distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO > $ > Status: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-= > lsr-distoptflood/__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSC0pwav > Y$ > Htmlized: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-<= https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-whit= e-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy82= 9PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl$> > white-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl > $ > Htmlized: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft- > white-lsr-distoptflood-00__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q > 2$ > > > Abstract: > In dense topologies, such as data center fabrics based on the Clos > and butterfly fabric topologies, flooding mechanisms designed for > sparse topologies, when used in these dense topologies, can > "overflood," or carry too many copies of topology and reachability to > fabric devices. This results in slower convergence times and higher > resource utilization. The modifications to the flooding mechanism in > the Intermediate System to Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state > protocol described in this document reduce resource utilization to a > minimum, while increaseing convergence performance in dense > topologies. > > Note that a Clos fabric is used as the primary example of a desne > flooding topology throughout this document. However, the flooding > optimizations described in this document apply to any dense topology. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_CY4PR05MB3576C0E406B5976561916274D5F30CY4PR05MB3576namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Les,

 

Thanks for the review and comments.

Pls see inline for replies.

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D= 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:44 AM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflo= od-00.txt

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Draft authors -

 

I note that as the draft has evolved over the yea= rs a number of mechanisms have been removed (revised adjacency formation an= d auto tier detection) and the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding op= timizations.

The draft now also references the recent work don= e in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.

 

A couple of things are not clear to me.

 

1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined= in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusi= vely - referring to how flooding adapts to topology changes.

It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are act= ually intending to use the mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#section-6.8<= /a> or whether you simply want to use the Flooding sub-TLV defined in draft= -ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding to (optionally??) advertise your algorithm and a= ll other procedures are specific to your algorithm.

<Shraddha> We= want to use the “ IS-IS Dynamic Flooding Sub-TLV” defined in s= ec 5.1.2 of the lsr-dynamic-flooding draft just to flood the information

that nodes support = the algorithm specified in draft-white-lsr-distoptflood. I agree it’s= not writen very well. I’ll update that section in next version.

 

 

2)The text at the end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00#section-2.1= states:

 

" LSPs transmitted to adjacent

   neighbors on the DNR list, however, = MUST be transmitted using a

   circuit scope PDU as described in [R= FC7356]."

 

Although this text is not new to this revision, i= t raises a number of questions/concerns – some of which relate to how= this draft fits with draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.

 

For “DNR neighbors”, although a circu= it scoped LSP was received, the actual content is a traditional area scoped= LSP.

<Shraddha> yes.

This presumably needs to be used internally (e.g.= , when running the Decision Process) in the same way as an area scoped LSP.

<Shraddha> yes.

So there are now two internal databases (traditio= nal area LSPs and Circuit Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are= a single database?

<Shraddha> Yes that is correct

When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it incl= ude the LSPs it received as Circuit-Scoped LSPs?

If not, how is resynchronization achieved when ne= cessary?

<Shraddha> yes. CSNPs includes circuit scop= ed LSPs.

Since you raised this point, I am thinking that w= e need a protocol extension to indicate that “this circuit scoped LSP= ” should be treated

In this special way.

 

Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dyn= amic-flooding why is the use of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful?

<Shraddha> I am not sure which base work yo= u are suggesting to use. Could you pls provide details?

The flooding algorithm as written in the draft br= eaks if circuit scoped flooding is not done.

Because, the distributed algorithm does not flood= the LSP back in the direction from where it was originated.

 

In general, it would be helpful to more completel= y define the relationship between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo= oding.

<Shraddha> yes. I’ll produce next ver= sion soon.

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde

> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM=

> To: lsr@ietf= .org

> Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification = for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-

> 00.txt

>

> WG members,

>

>

> We have posted new version of the draft-whit= e-lsr-distoptflood.

> This draft has been around for sometime by n= ame openfabric and

> draft-white-distoptflood. The current revisi= on has the name changed

> to reflect LSR WG.

> This draft describes a flood reduction mecha= nism in ISIS which is based on

> similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for m= obile-ad-hoc Networks

> ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]).<= /o:p>

>

> Request working group to review and provide = inputs.

>

> Rgds

> Shraddha

>

>

> Juniper Business Use Only

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: internet-drafts= @ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>

> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM=

> To: Shraddha Hegde <sh= raddha@juniper.net>; Russ White <russ@riw.us>;

> Shawn Zandi <szandi@lin= kedin.com>

> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-= white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt

>

> [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>

> A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distop= tflood-00.txt

> has been successfully submitted by Shraddha = Hegde and posted to the IETF

> repository.

>

> Name:      &nb= sp;    draft-white-lsr-distoptflood

> Revision:      = ; 00

> Title:      &n= bsp;   IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies

> Document date:  2020-11-29

> Group:      &n= bsp;   Individual Submission

> Pages:      &n= bsp;   12

> URL:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-

> lsr-distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO=

> $

> Status:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-<= /p>

> lsr-distoptflood/__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSC0pwav<= /a>

> Y$

> Htmlized:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-

> white-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl=

> $

> Htmlized:      = ; https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-

> white-lsr-distoptflood-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q<= /a>

> 2$

>

>

> Abstract:

>    In dense topologies, such = as data center fabrics based on the Clos

>    and butterfly fabric topol= ogies, flooding mechanisms designed for

>    sparse topologies, when us= ed in these dense topologies, can

>    "overflood," or = carry too many copies of topology and reachability to

>    fabric devices.  This= results in slower convergence times and higher

>    resource utilization. = ; The modifications to the flooding mechanism in

>    the Intermediate System to= Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state

>    protocol described in this= document reduce resource utilization to a

>    minimum, while increaseing= convergence performance in dense

>    topologies.

>

>    Note that a Clos fabric is= used as the primary example of a desne

>    flooding topology througho= ut this document.  However, the flooding

>    optimizations described in= this document apply to any dense topology.

>

>

>

>

> Please note that it may take a couple of min= utes from the time of submission

> until the htmlized version and diff are avai= lable at tools.ietf.org.

>

> The IETF Secretariat

>

> ____________________________________________= ___

> Lsr mailing list

> Lsr@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/lsr

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Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:16:50 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Shraddha Hegde , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHWxtFOnDnJ15DSE0e6+Vz+PNT/vangFZeAgAATjKCAA+ZwsIAADN2A Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 18:16:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160671052823.23617.10172332926989361067@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-12-02T17:30:05Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=b1c50c4e-ff10-4bdb-b977-4e6e1514e7d6; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2 authentication-results: dmarc.ietf.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shraddha - Thanx for the responses. Please see inline. From: Shraddha Hegde Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 9:30 AM To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; lsr@ietf.org Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.t= xt Hi Les, Thanks for the review and comments. Pls see inline for replies. Juniper Business Use Only From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:44 AM To: Shraddha Hegde >; lsr= @ietf.org Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.t= xt [External Email. Be cautious of content] Draft authors - I note that as the draft has evolved over the years a number of mechanisms = have been removed (revised adjacency formation and auto tier detection) and= the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding optimizations. The draft now also references the recent work done in draft-ietf-lsr-dynami= c-flooding. A couple of things are not clear to me. 1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic= -flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusively - referring to how fl= ooding adapts to topology changes. It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are actually intending to use the= mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-f= looding-07#section-6.8 or whether you = simply want to use the Flooding sub-TLV defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-f= looding to (optionally??) advertise your algorithm and all other procedures= are specific to your algorithm. We want to use the " IS-IS Dynamic Flooding Sub-TLV" defined in = sec 5.1.2 of the lsr-dynamic-flooding draft just to flood the information that nodes support the algorithm specified in draft-white-lsr-distoptflood.= I agree it's not writen very well. I'll update that section in next versio= n. 2)The text at the end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distop= tflood-00#section-2.1 states: " LSPs transmitted to adjacent neighbors on the DNR list, however, MUST be transmitted using a circuit scope PDU as described in [RFC7356]." Although this text is not new to this revision, it raises a number of quest= ions/concerns - some of which relate to how this draft fits with draft-ietf= -lsr-dynamic-flooding. For "DNR neighbors", although a circuit scoped LSP was received, the actual= content is a traditional area scoped LSP. yes. This presumably needs to be used internally (e.g., when running the Decisio= n Process) in the same way as an area scoped LSP. yes. So there are now two internal databases (traditional area LSPs and Circuit = Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are a single database? Yes that is correct When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it include the LSPs it received a= s Circuit-Scoped LSPs? If not, how is resynchronization achieved when necessary? yes. CSNPs includes circuit scoped LSPs. Since you raised this point, I am thinking that we need a protocol extensio= n to indicate that "this circuit scoped LSP" should be treated In this special way. Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding why is the u= se of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful? I am not sure which base work you are suggesting to use. Could y= ou pls provide details? The flooding algorithm as written in the draft breaks if circuit scoped flo= oding is not done. Because, the distributed algorithm does not flood the LSP back in the direc= tion from where it was originated. [Les:] If you use the mechanisms defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding= there would be no need to use Circuit Scoped Flooding to send normal area = scoped LSPs. Each node in the topology would know to which neighbors it should have floo= ding enabled - either because you operate in centralized mode and the Area = Leader distributes the flooding topology or because you operate in distribu= ted mode and all nodes employ the same algorithm. (The latter assumes the a= lgorithm supports deterministic choices for each node.) And when topology c= hanges occur the mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie= tf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#section-6.8= assure that flooding continues to be reliable during the transition period= (i.e., until a new flooding topology is calculated). The fact that you apparently do NOT want to use the extensions defined in t= he dynamic-flooding draft means that (as you agree above) you have to intro= duce additional protocol extensions which aren't really necessary. This mak= es the solution much less appealing to me - independent of the merits/demer= its of the algorithm itself. The use of Circuit Scoped LSPs to send traditional area scoped LSPs is not = at all what RFC 7356 intends. And it causes difficulties (as you have noted= above) in what the content of CSNPs should be and how the different LSPDBs= are used internally. I really do not like these aspects. The dynamic flooding draft wasn't in existence when Russ wrote the early ve= rsions of this draft. I am suggesting you might want to rethink your approa= ch to take advantage of what dynamic flooding draft has defined. Les In general, it would be helpful to more completely define the relationship = between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding. yes. I'll produce next version soon. Thanx. Les > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr > On Behalf O= f Shraddha Hegde > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM > To: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptfl= ood- > 00.txt > > WG members, > > > We have posted new version of the draft-white-lsr-distoptflood. > This draft has been around for sometime by name openfabric and > draft-white-distoptflood. The current revision has the name changed > to reflect LSR WG. > This draft describes a flood reduction mechanism in ISIS which is based o= n > similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for mobile-ad-hoc Networks > ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]). > > Request working group to review and provide inputs. > > Rgds > Shraddha > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM > To: Shraddha Hegde >; R= uss White >; > Shawn Zandi > > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Shraddha Hegde and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Name: draft-white-lsr-distoptflood > Revision: 00 > Title: IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies > Document date: 2020-11-29 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 12 > URL: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-<= https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-lsr-= distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy8= 29PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO$> > lsr-distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO > $ > Status: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-= > lsr-distoptflood/__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSC0pwav > Y$ > Htmlized: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-<= https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-whit= e-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy82= 9PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl$> > white-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl > $ > Htmlized: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft- > white-lsr-distoptflood-00__;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q > 2$ > > > Abstract: > In dense topologies, such as data center fabrics based on the Clos > and butterfly fabric topologies, flooding mechanisms designed for > sparse topologies, when used in these dense topologies, can > "overflood," or carry too many copies of topology and reachability to > fabric devices. This results in slower convergence times and higher > resource utilization. The modifications to the flooding mechanism in > the Intermediate System to Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state > protocol described in this document reduce resource utilization to a > minimum, while increaseing convergence performance in dense > topologies. > > Note that a Clos fabric is used as the primary example of a desne > flooding topology throughout this document. However, the flooding > optimizations described in this document apply to any dense topology. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_BY5PR11MB43372E27477FFE936AC0A8EEC1F30BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Shraddha –

 

Thanx for the responses.

 

Please see inline.

 

From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha=3D40juniper= .net@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2020 9:30 AM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflo= od-00.txt

 

Hi Les,

 

Thanks for the review and comments.

Pls see inline for replies.

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:44 AM
To: Shraddha Hegde <shrad= dha@juniper.net>; lsr@ietf.org
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-white-lsr-distoptflo= od-00.txt

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

Draft authors -

 

I note that as the draft has evolved over the yea= rs a number of mechanisms have been removed (revised adjacency formation an= d auto tier detection) and the draft now focuses exclusively on flooding op= timizations.

The draft now also references the recent work don= e in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.

 

A couple of things are not clear to me.

 

1)Is it your intent to use the mechanisms defined= in draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding? I am specifically - though not exclusi= vely - referring to how flooding adapts to topology changes.

It isn't clear from Section 3 whether you are act= ually intending to use the mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#section-6.8<= /a> or whether you simply want to use the Flooding sub-TLV defined in draft= -ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding to (optionally??) advertise your algorithm and a= ll other procedures are specific to your algorithm.

<Shraddha> We= want to use the “ IS-IS Dynamic Flooding Sub-TLV” defined in s= ec 5.1.2 of the lsr-dynamic-flooding draft just to flood the information

that nodes support = the algorithm specified in draft-white-lsr-distoptflood. I agree it’s= not writen very well. I’ll update that section in next version.

 

 

2)The text at the end of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-00#section-2.1= states:

 

" LSPs transmitted to adjacent

   neighbors on the DNR list, however, = MUST be transmitted using a

   circuit scope PDU as described in [R= FC7356]."

 

Although this text is not new to this revision, i= t raises a number of questions/concerns – some of which relate to how= this draft fits with draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding.

 

For “DNR neighbors”, although a circu= it scoped LSP was received, the actual content is a traditional area scoped= LSP.

<Shraddha> yes.

This presumably needs to be used internally (e.g.= , when running the Decision Process) in the same way as an area scoped LSP.

<Shraddha> yes.

So there are now two internal databases (traditio= nal area LSPs and Circuit Scoped LSPs) which have to be used as if they are= a single database?

<Shraddha> Yes that is correct

When a node sends a traditional CSNP does it incl= ude the LSPs it received as Circuit-Scoped LSPs?

If not, how is resynchronization achieved when ne= cessary?

<Shraddha> yes. CSNPs includes circuit scop= ed LSPs.

Since you raised this point, I am thinking that w= e need a protocol extension to indicate that “this circuit scoped LSP= ” should be treated

In this special way.

 

Given the base work defined in draft-ietf-lsr-dyn= amic-flooding why is the use of Circuit Scoped LSPs required/useful?

<Shraddha> I am not sure which base work yo= u are suggesting to use. Could you pls provide details?

The flooding algorithm as written in the draft br= eaks if circuit scoped flooding is not done.

Because, the distributed algorithm does not flood= the LSP back in the direction from where it was originated.

 

[Les:] If you use the mechanisms defined in= draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding there would be no need to use Circuit Scop= ed Flooding to send normal area scoped LSPs.

Each node in the topology would know to whi= ch neighbors it should have flooding enabled – either because you ope= rate in centralized mode and the Area Leader distributes the flooding topol= ogy or because you operate in distributed mode and all nodes employ the same algorithm. (The latter assumes the algo= rithm supports deterministic choices for each node.) And when topology chan= ges occur the mechanisms defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-07#section-6.8<= /a> assure that flooding continues to be reliable during the transition per= iod (i.e., until a new flooding topology is calculated).=

 

The fact that you apparently do NOT want to= use the extensions defined in the dynamic-flooding draft means that (as yo= u agree above) you have to introduce additional protocol extensions which a= ren’t really necessary. This makes the solution much less appealing to me – independent of the merits/d= emerits of the algorithm itself.

 

The use of Circuit Scoped LSPs to send trad= itional area scoped LSPs is not at all what RFC 7356 intends. And it causes= difficulties (as you have noted above) in what the content of CSNPs should= be and how the different LSPDBs are used internally.

I really do not like these aspects.

 

The dynamic flooding draft wasn’t in = existence when Russ wrote the early versions of this draft. I am suggesting= you might want to rethink your approach to take advantage of what dynamic = flooding draft has defined.

 

   Les

 

 

In general, it would be helpful to more completel= y define the relationship between this draft and draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flo= oding.

<Shraddha> yes. I’ll produce next ver= sion soon.

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Shraddha Hegde

> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:36 PM=

> To: lsr@ietf= .org

> Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification = for draft-white-lsr-distoptflood-

> 00.txt

>

> WG members,

>

>

> We have posted new version of the draft-whit= e-lsr-distoptflood.

> This draft has been around for sometime by n= ame openfabric and

> draft-white-distoptflood. The current revisi= on has the name changed

> to reflect LSR WG.

> This draft describes a flood reduction mecha= nism in ISIS which is based on

> similar mechanisms implemented in OSPF for m= obile-ad-hoc Networks

> ([RFC5449], [RFC5614], and [RFC7182]).<= /o:p>

>

> Request working group to review and provide = inputs.

>

> Rgds

> Shraddha

>

>

> Juniper Business Use Only

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: internet-drafts= @ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>

> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:59 AM=

> To: Shraddha Hegde <sh= raddha@juniper.net>; Russ White <russ@riw.us>;

> Shawn Zandi <szandi@lin= kedin.com>

> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-= white-lsr-distoptflood-00.txt

>

> [External Email. Be cautious of content]

>

>

> A new version of I-D, draft-white-lsr-distop= tflood-00.txt

> has been successfully submitted by Shraddha = Hegde and posted to the IETF

> repository.

>

> Name:      &nb= sp;    draft-white-lsr-distoptflood

> Revision:      = ; 00

> Title:      &n= bsp;   IS-IS Optimal Distributed Flooding for Dense Topologies

> Document date:  2020-11-29

> Group:      &n= bsp;   Individual Submission

> Pages:      &n= bsp;   12

> URL:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-white-

> lsr-distoptflood-00.txt__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSEm2FfjO=

> $

> Status:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-white-<= /p>

> lsr-distoptflood/__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSC0pwav<= /a>

> Y$

> Htmlized:

> https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-

> white-lsr-distoptflood__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSFYebZSl=

> $

> Htmlized:      = ; https://urldefense.co= m/v3/__https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-

> white-lsr-distoptflood-00__;!!NEt6yMaO-

> gk!T5HX4Enn7jt3zwKoZBiA85YlysK0tdcELjk7Fy829PRSockmshBtqxzkSANTt6Q<= /a>

> 2$

>

>

> Abstract:

>    In dense topologies, such = as data center fabrics based on the Clos

>    and butterfly fabric topol= ogies, flooding mechanisms designed for

>    sparse topologies, when us= ed in these dense topologies, can

>    "overflood," or = carry too many copies of topology and reachability to

>    fabric devices.  This= results in slower convergence times and higher

>    resource utilization. = ; The modifications to the flooding mechanism in

>    the Intermediate System to= Intermediate System (IS-IS) link state

>    protocol described in this= document reduce resource utilization to a

>    minimum, while increaseing= convergence performance in dense

>    topologies.

>

>    Note that a Clos fabric is= used as the primary example of a desne

>    flooding topology througho= ut this document.  However, the flooding

>    optimizations described in= this document apply to any dense topology.

>

>

>

>

> Please note that it may take a couple of min= utes from the time of submission

> until the htmlized version and diff are avai= lable at tools.ietf.org.

>

> The IETF Secretariat

>

> ____________________________________________= ___

> Lsr mailing list

> Lsr@ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/lsr

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--_000_D54D766BE3204EE1AB9639CE8DAF2F4Ejunipernet_-- From nobody Wed Dec 2 12:55:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59FB3A1533; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 12:55:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160694254973.21872.359403255225658281@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 12:55:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] IPR Disclosure Juniper Networks, Inc.'s Statement about IPR related to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 20:55:50 -0000 Dear William Britto, Shraddha Hegde, Parag Kaneriya, Rejesh Shetty, Ron Bonica, Peter Psenak: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" (draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2020-12-02 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4519/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Juniper Networks, Inc.'s Statement about IPR related to draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Wed Dec 2 15:31:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC8B3A1600 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 15:31:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l3qLW5fKlazp for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 302823A07EA for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 17:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id D69FC47A80; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 09:31:32 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'lsr'" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 09:31:32 +0800 Message-ID: <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01D6C957.16495250" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH8VnFOXLr2+nfgZyr1vMlff0Wn2KmZdiTQ Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZTh0dHRpKGBhMTUlLVkpNS01CTkJLQkhLT0JVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6OD46Khw6Cz8IEDoKDxESNUpI CUlPCUJVSlVKTUtNQk5CS0JITU1DVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUpJT0tKNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a762639d4d09865kuuud69fc47a80 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 01:31:49 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01D6C957.16495250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, authors: =20 Want to confirm one thing: Does the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic = fallback from =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm=E2=80=9D to the = =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost algorithm=E2=80=9D? =20 That is to say, can one prefix exists both in the =E2=80=9Cflex = algorithm=E2=80=9D table and =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost = algorithm=E2=80=9D table, the router prefer to forwarding the packet = based on the former table, and if not hit, then lookup the latter table? =20 >From the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the = contrary? In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a IPv4 Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability advertisement MUST be preferred when installing entries in the forwarding plane. =20 If so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the = network? From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism = is that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of = some traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of = most other normal traffic. =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Acee = Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM To: lsr Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 =20 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use = cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support = for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please = indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to = 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome. Thanks, Acee =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01D6C957.16495250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

H= i, authors:

<= o:p> 

W= ant to confirm one thing:

D= oes the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic fallback = from =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm=E2=80=9D to the =E2=80=9Ctraditional = least-cost algorithm=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0

T= hat is to say, can one prefix exists both in the =E2=80=9Cflex = algorithm=E2=80=9D table and =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost = algorithm=E2=80=9D table, the router prefer to forwarding the packet = based on the former table, and if not hit, then lookup the latter = table?

<= o:p> 

F= rom the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the = contrary?

In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in = both a IPv4

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 = Algorithm Prefix Reachability

=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability = advertisement MUST be preferred

=C2=A0=C2=A0 when installing entries in the forwarding = plane.

<= o:p> 

I= f so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the = network? From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism = is that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of = some traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of = most other normal traffic.

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom<= o:p>

<= o:p> 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem = (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
To: = lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for = "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

This IP Flex Algorithm draft = generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment prior to = IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a = two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to = WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December = 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome.

Thanks,

Acee

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_008F_01D6C957.16495250-- From nobody Wed Dec 2 19:40:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D753A09C6 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 19:39:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bsmoTXt9UZle for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 19:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCED13A09C4 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 19:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id u2so372606pls.10 for ; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 19:39:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CgIeSeHdaHHwgrguwBDcBZV+6RrTS3Jc3RHHqIDaOQk=; b=k4zdVAcH3ms8wt/v8zU4X3npMi2WlSbD2ueHVXf74qgLe5vNRqzcS3G1yh0GqsLmbG U9z4V3zImsX0/z3VaG2u4gSoknNOI6wuN+Py82UMxKypAVIwOZ4BVZTH3XtS1YdrtZQn S4s6zb/yyIXRaVnRmuMg/AEbarZ4HaMmPOA86D9kWkuFqB87Q2A4yCGREofAywxrIJTn epiUleioeCce0wFMuf/pIicT6TKfUSl9NmiS0VbgpxBGSu6niCFY1bpadfMkAqqbDc6o AUYOJ+/LXimhn2dQw/pw/rU2FjqrpkwwINo60x2lUsanK3+Fm5YDtSvFbI0HhMo3Cfab gMPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CgIeSeHdaHHwgrguwBDcBZV+6RrTS3Jc3RHHqIDaOQk=; b=jXRK/n4l9ORbX05ZVP8nNz4g7rZSCnx4GU8c1G1KHz4x3LypF6wAZ2l54I+wSVtvXB dobUPvBfWW2M+uEThjXJswPJfp44RhgdylpVnb7erXYnhCiiQmI00VgSEwmz4le9Nq5V QGM4R1N1W1/v68lvst4Zejjnkr/CCNcTrfCdHpkMjU8CUYC4PN24HAuCCnPkA/oJqB1n gdZhA2wQb/7sGQUinb5SRSVnFXszdsCYqXEovHy9nzLpFOZ2s2xiSsfIihpvcq1+abfz 75lB5Sd3jfVp4n+Z1FfAUUb80b2+sHq2veHyZX+c9aHyUQSYkKLjQ1+IcZxYyAcvjk0O PeDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532yAFjffeom8KyvfKyk1lVJpRlzrEZU7P/wkixRaXDsgo7CM9kH XQ6Y3SdLpoek8iOL+iIRHIhqZUjlj8Hv7VvWzfQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxW8VALShZrRagrK2HH1LBT6QWEWGK/CCdiKLtgd44BqCcOyBhshT+yYmwsoO1IKvVXaiGScqMXLgeJcNQxZ/4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:6809:: with SMTP id p9mr1113832pjj.112.1606966797043; Wed, 02 Dec 2020 19:39:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2020 22:39:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: Aijun Wang Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001a8c2305b5871d26" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 03:40:00 -0000 --0000000000001a8c2305b5871d26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support WG adoption. This is a much needed traffic engineering capability independent of MPLS. Thanks Gyan On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:32 PM Aijun Wang wrote= : > Hi, authors: > > > > Want to confirm one thing: > > Does the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic fallback > from =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm=E2=80=9D to the =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-c= ost algorithm=E2=80=9D? > > That is to say, can one prefix exists both in the =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm= =E2=80=9D table > and =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost algorithm=E2=80=9D table, the router = prefer to > forwarding the packet based on the former table, and if not hit, then > lookup the latter table? > > > > From the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the > contrary? > > In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a IPv4 > > Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability > > TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability advertisement MUST be preferred > > when installing entries in the forwarding plane. > > > > If so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the > network? From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism is > that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of some > traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of most oth= er > normal traffic. > > > > Best Regards > > > > Aijun Wang > > China Telecom > > > > *From:* lsr-bounces@ietf.org *On Behalf Of *Acee > Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM > *To:* lsr > *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > > > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use > cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support fo= r > WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate you= r > support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on > December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000001a8c2305b5871d26 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support WG adoption.=C2=A0 This is a muc= h needed traffic engineering capability independent of MPLS.

Thanks=C2=A0
<= br>
Gyan

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:32 PM Aijun Wa= ng <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.= cn> wrote:
<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi, authors:

=C2=A0

Want to confirm one thing:

Does the mechanism described in this dra= ft support the automatic fallback from =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm=E2=80=9D to = the =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost algorithm=E2=80=9D?=C2=A0

That is= to say, can one prefix exists both in the =E2=80=9Cflex algorithm=E2=80=9D= table and =E2=80=9Ctraditional least-cost algorithm=E2=80=9D table, the ro= uter prefer to forwarding the packet based on the former table, and if not = hit, then lookup the latter table?

=C2=A0

From the context of th= e document, the answer seems not, or even on the contrary?=

In cases where a pre= fix advertisement is received in both a IPv4=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Prefix Reachability TLV and = an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability a= dvertisement MUST be preferred

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Courier New= ";color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 when installing entries in the forwarding = plane.

=C2=A0=

If so, what the value to deploy such flexib= le algorithm within the network? From my POV, the reason that we want to de= ploy such mechanism is that we want to differentiate the path(result of fle= x algorithm) of some traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost alg= orithm) of most other normal traffic.

=C2=A0

Best Regards

=C2=A0

Aijun Wang

China Tel= ecom

=C2=A0

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces= @ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: We= dnesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr= ] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP= Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

<= /div>

=C2=A0

This IP Flex Alg= orithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deploymen= t prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This b= egins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objectio= n to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome.

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

= _______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--
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Thu, 3 Dec 2020 06:07:32 +0000 From: Parag Kaneriya To: Aijun Wang , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , 'lsr' Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRankl8EAgABLfUA= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 06:07:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.5.0.60 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2020-12-03T06:07:29Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; 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boundary="_000_BYAPR05MB41988F06D2C790D925064AA1DFF20BYAPR05MB4198namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR05MB4198.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6079aa6e-4a14-48a2-e0c5-08d89751b90a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Dec 2020 06:07:32.4288 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: MKV4Np3LzJArqYJLY1CA1r7f0Hz2w3Ol0w9JTqnWJ7UVInumcP1VwV1XSfCKG1sXxcExM5rqF9u03G6G6geK+Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR05MB7189 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-12-03_01:2020-11-30, 2020-12-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=1 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2009150000 definitions=main-2012030038 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 06:07:40 -0000 --_000_BYAPR05MB41988F06D2C790D925064AA1DFF20BYAPR05MB4198namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Aijun, Every router by default support algo 0. When router support IP-FLEX algo a= long with default algo, we need to be deterministic when there is conflict = of prefix advertise in both algo. This conflict might be due to mis config.= So when such condition arise, prefix belong to default algo should give pr= iority to be install in forwarding table. Regards Parag Juniper Business Use Only From: Lsr On Behalf Of Aijun Wang Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 7:02 AM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' ; 'lsr' Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi, authors: Want to confirm one thing: Does the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic fallback f= rom "flex algorithm" to the "traditional least-cost algorithm"? That is to say, can one prefix exists both in the "flex algorithm" table an= d "traditional least-cost algorithm" table, the router prefer to forwarding= the packet based on the former table, and if not hit, then lookup the latt= er table? >From the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the cont= rary? In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a IPv4 Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability advertisement MUST be preferred when installing entries in the forwarding plane. If so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the network?= From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism is that we w= ant to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of some traffic fro= m that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of most other normal tra= ffic. Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM To: lsr > Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorith= m) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cas= es and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG = adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your sup= port or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on Dece= mber 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. Thanks, Acee --_000_BYAPR05MB41988F06D2C790D925064AA1DFF20BYAPR05MB4198namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --_000_BYAPR05MB41988F06D2C790D925064AA1DFF20BYAPR05MB4198namp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 2 23:07:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E007F3A0809 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 23:07:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ppP2QsEk27i for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 23:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 955693A07F9 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 2020 23:06:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 68A58476F4; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 15:06:54 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Parag Kaneriya'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'lsr'" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 15:06:53 +0800 Message-ID: <00db01d6c942$e1908e20$a4b1aa60$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D6C985.EFB75090" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH8VnFOXLr2+nfgZyr1vMlff0Wn2AHhfCFyAiJNeDapebJLQA== Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZQk5JGh4YQkhDHUNPVkpNS01CTEJJSk9NTklVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6OVE6TDo4Hj8PIjk9LipMAxMp TjdPC0pVSlVKTUtNQkxCSUpOSk5CVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUlKT09KNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a76276cdcd09865kuuu68a58476f4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 07:07:04 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D6C985.EFB75090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Parag: From: Parag Kaneriya Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 2:08 PM To: Aijun Wang ; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' ; 'lsr' Subject: RE: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Hello Aijun, Every router by default support algo 0. When router support IP-FLEX algo along with default algo, we need to be deterministic when there is conflict of prefix advertise in both algo. This conflict might be due to mis config. So when such condition arise, prefix belong to default algo should give priority to be install in forwarding table. [WAJ] Why not prefer to the prefixes belong to the IP-FLEX? And, let's consider its relation with BGP Prefixes. When the sub-topology within the IP-FLEX is broken, because you don't support (BGP nexthop) automatic fallback to the default algo, traffic to these prefixes that advertised by the BGP will also be broken? Is there any mechanism to support the automatic fallback from IP-FLEX to default algo? Regards Parag Juniper Business Use Only From: Lsr > On Behalf Of Aijun Wang Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 7:02 AM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' >; 'lsr' > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi, authors: Want to confirm one thing: Does the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic fallback from "flex algorithm" to the "traditional least-cost algorithm"? That is to say, can one prefix exists both in the "flex algorithm" table and "traditional least-cost algorithm" table, the router prefer to forwarding the packet based on the former table, and if not hit, then lookup the latter table? >From the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the contrary? In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a IPv4 Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability advertisement MUST be preferred when installing entries in the forwarding plane. If so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the network? >From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism is that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of some traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of most other normal traffic. Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM To: lsr > Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. Thanks, Acee ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01D6C985.EFB75090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello = Parag:

 =

From: Parag Kaneriya = <pkaneria@juniper.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 = 2:08 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; = 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; 'lsr' = <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for = "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Hello = Aijun,

 

Every router by default support = algo 0.  When router support IP-FLEX algo along with default algo, = we need to be deterministic when there is conflict of prefix advertise = in both algo. This conflict might be due to mis config. So when such = condition arise, prefix belong to default algo should give priority to = be install in forwarding table.

[WAJ] Why = not prefer to the prefixes belong to the = IP-FLEX?

And, = let’s consider its relation with BGP Prefixes. When the = sub-topology within the IP-FLEX is broken, because you don’t = support (BGP nexthop) automatic fallback to the default algo, =  traffic to these prefixes  that advertised by the BGP will = also be broken?

Is there = any mechanism to support the automatic fallback from IP-FLEX to default = algo?   

 

Regards

Parag

 

Juniper Business Use = Only

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 7:02 = AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org>; 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: = [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

[External Email. = Be cautious of content]

 

Hi, = authors:

 =

Want to = confirm one thing:

Does the = mechanism described in this draft support the automatic fallback from = “flex algorithm” to the = “traditional least-cost = algorithm”?  =

That is to = say, can one prefix exists both in the “flex algorithm” table and = “traditional least-cost = algorithm” table, the router prefer to = forwarding the packet based on the former table, and if not hit, then = lookup the latter table?

 =

From the = context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the = contrary?

In = cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a = IPv4

   Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 = Algorithm Prefix Reachability

   TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability = advertisement MUST be preferred

   when installing entries in the forwarding = plane.

 =

If so, = what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the network? = >From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism is that we = want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of some traffic = from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of most other = normal traffic.

 =

Best = Regards

 =

Aijun = Wang

China = Telecom

 =

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, = 2020 5:13 AM
To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

This IP Flex Algorithm draft = generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment prior to = IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a = two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to = WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December = 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome.

Thanks,

Acee

 

 

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ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sh4PyULZFt6r for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 01:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F4E73A0816 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 01:06:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2175; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1606986392; x=1608195992; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dTDx7uqE0ebMNFajfoT7IkpJLLSFlRd45iqqzByXnrw=; b=Vf6es4at0Oz9bpVk7RWg2jYy9V8j2fsjtYwGlprwXH73E//LvVYbz5tP 2WworEcXFcC6tLz+evwB/hr3TR7jVjlNCLrqBDz5eaw7ZTXK093z66pDH NOiVFlkWYSOSho56mh2ysgPaku4PUMgfAnA8BHNeIDhRNL4ckfAOMPuoT c=; 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<008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 10:06:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <008e01d6c914$08259d20$1870d760$@tsinghua.org.cn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 09:06:35 -0000 Hi Aijun, On 03/12/2020 02:31, Aijun Wang wrote: > Hi, authors: > > Want to confirm one thing: > > Does the mechanism described in this draft support the automatic > fallback from “flex algorithm” to the “traditional least-cost algorithm”? no. > > That is to say, can one prefix exists both in the “flex algorithm” table > and “traditional least-cost algorithm” table, the router prefer to > forwarding the packet based on the former table, and if not hit, then > lookup the latter table? no. > > From the context of the document, the answer seems not, or even on the > contrary? > > In cases where a prefix advertisement is received in both a IPv4 > >    Prefix Reachability TLV and an IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability > >    TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability advertisement MUST be preferred > >    when installing entries in the forwarding plane. above text is to handle an error case and only associate the prefix with the single algo - e.g. algo 0. thanks, Peter > > If so, what the value to deploy such flexible algorithm within the > network? From my POV, the reason that we want to deploy such mechanism > is that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of > some traffic from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of > most other normal traffic. > > Best Regards > > Aijun Wang > > China Telecom > > *From:*lsr-bounces@ietf.org *On Behalf Of *Acee > Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM > *To:* lsr > *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use > cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support > for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please > indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to > 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are > certainly welcome. > > Thanks, > > Acee > From nobody Thu Dec 3 01:31:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91CF73A0D82 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 01:31:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=i9EUibT+; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=j8yrP6CL Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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b=Vxk1DoQyMOlcyB/rwSiEUhO/peS3BPIxLZ7TplU1c00Bld8aEuhXDXFg eSs2wo6VblLWDG9nISt8M5dXeY3PQ0Byip3fGd+0ueVfhLdS+FXd/wey/ 8kwpRVJ6ISFNGp2U7XzBz+0c6iTLIIanqnJHdoUCDtC1PdKmsMM4EUoZ0 s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,389,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="29174159" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 03 Dec 2020 10:17:47 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.36] ([10.147.24.36]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B3AHkNP032170; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 10:17:46 GMT To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , Alexander Okonnikov , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 11:17:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.36, [10.147.24.36] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 10:17:52 -0000 Hi Ketan, On 03/12/2020 10:31, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hello All, > > The text in RFC5185 for picking the neighbor’s IP Address or IfIndex for > the link-data is indeed very odd and flies against how things are done > for normal p2p links per RFC2328. > > The implementations that I am aware of do not really following this > “decision” of RFC5185 and instead stick to RFC2328 architecture by > picking the local IP address or IfIndex even for MADJ links. This way, a > remote router cannot really distinguish between a normal P2P link or a > MADJ – they look the same in the LSDB. > > While the neighbor IP address can be learnt via the source address used > for the hello messages, there is really no simple way to learn the > neighbor’s IfIndex for unnumbered links [1]. rfc8510? > > So IMHO the RFC5185 is in error and we should fix this if we have > consensus in the WG via a BIS as suggested by Acee. I'm not convinced about the error. Nor about the need of the bis. my 2c, Peter > > Gunter, I am not getting into your other questions because of what I’ve > mentioned above 😊 > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > [1] Note that over time we have introduced such mechanisms (RFC8510), > but they have all been optional and not “base/required” behavior. > > *From:*Lsr *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* 30 November 2020 23:18 > *To:* Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) > ; Alexander Okonnikov > ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > ; Acee Lindem (acee) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > You are welcome to propose an alternate solution which could possibly be > accepted as a BIS document. However, this is not something that can be > simply changed in an Errata to reduce the complexity. > > Thanks, > Acee > > *From: *Lsr > on > behalf of Gunter Van de Velde > > *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:21 PM > *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" >, Alexander Okonnikov > >, > "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org " > > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select > remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the ‘Link Data’ is > making things much more complicated. > > I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the > ‘better’ choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it seems as a worse > choice. > > A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV > (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? > > Answer: > > For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the > IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=easy) > > For numbered: > > 1.we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link > > 2.If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must be used > to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the neighbor > > 3.If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then the > maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex… This may > give a match or no match > > 4.If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the > RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data > > 5.= over-complex. (If we used  for RFC5185 ‘Link Data = local ip > address’ then (2) would given answer directly) > > In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise > local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address. > > I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after > receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if > multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create the > correct key? > > Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 > Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF > complexity without benefits. > > Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use local-ip-address > instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link Data and avoid the > additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links? > > Brgds, > > G/ > > *From:*Lsr > *On > Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01 > *To:* Alexander Okonnikov >; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) > > > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > Hi Alex, > > Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB > as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn’t include the area. > For example: > > --  OSPF Interface Table > >   ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE > >        SYNTAX       SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry > >        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible > >        STATUS       current > >        DESCRIPTION > >           "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces > >           from the viewpoint of OSPF. > >           It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information." > >        REFERENCE > >           "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3  Router interface > >           parameters" > >        ::= { ospf 7 } > >   ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE > >        SYNTAX       OspfIfEntry > >        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible > >        STATUS       current > >        DESCRIPTION > >           "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface > >           from the viewpoint of OSPF. > >           Information in this table is persistent and when this object > >           is written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile > >           storage." > > INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf } > >        ::= { ospfIfTable 1 } > > Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a > separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My > Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > *From: *Lsr > on > behalf of Alexander Okonnikov > > *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM > *To: *"Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org " > > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > Hi Peter, > > 30 нояб. 2020 г., в 12:56, Peter Psenak > написал(а): > > Hi Alex, > > On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > Hi Peter, > Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered > point-to-point each link has its own unique IP address, so there > is no ambiguity. > Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow > reasons: > 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that > multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be > encoded in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has > its own IP address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered); > 2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as > unnumbered, but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the > neighbor (rather than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, > in order to make the link look like unnumbered; > 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is > no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as > unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's > interface is numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's > interface is unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that > specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention > of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. > > Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of > multi-area links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed > from Neighbor's IP address to own IP address, as it is specified > in RFC 2328. From perspective of other routers this link can be > treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of > neighbor's corresponding interface. > > > you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not > mandating to send IP address really. > > The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as > numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And > if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not > need RFC 5185 (section 1.2). > > One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop > calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is > configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as > IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface address. > Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV > (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we > want to calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and > thus router needs to match IGP link to TE link. > > > I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a > multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route > preference rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is > not advertised for TE purposes. > > Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need > ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what > about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section 3? > > thanks, > Peter > > Thank you. > > Thank you. > > 27 нояб. 2020 г., в 14:50, Peter Psenak > написал(а): > > Alexander, > > On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > Hi WG, > RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded > into Link Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP > address to be encoded into Link Data. What is the reason > to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links > and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could > someone comment on this? > > > Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate > ambiguity in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. > It's not perfect, but that's how it was specified. So it's > not a bug. > > thanks, > Peter > > Thanks in advance. > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Thu Dec 3 02:27:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356453A0E3B for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 02:27:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=MgLWqcI/; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com 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b=bgQzVgR0p5Z1CzUANQqQfSnQsR77rbjoOa0YtsGZM40Yh77mevxNXtET Pf0LsEHHPiGcn1Py2s8WM3vjcPo0+99/4qmBreASDiss+OMfHC9uTuetz i4TttkzcGSmUGMe0R+UXo82JE7xmhr0iCxIt/Il/EW/T5MVOOO9BSr15B s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,389,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="29174741" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 03 Dec 2020 10:30:43 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.36] ([10.147.24.36]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B3AUg5X003446; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 10:30:42 GMT To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , Alexander Okonnikov , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <15192991-62c8-25bb-d5e6-dd9823c6c793@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 11:30:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.36, [10.147.24.36] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 10:30:47 -0000 Hi Ketan, On 03/12/2020 11:26, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Please check inline below. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak > Sent: 03 December 2020 15:48 > To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; Alexander Okonnikov ; Acee Lindem (acee) > Cc: lsr@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > Hi Ketan, > > On 03/12/2020 10:31, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> The text in RFC5185 for picking the neighbor’s IP Address or IfIndex >> for the link-data is indeed very odd and flies against how things are >> done for normal p2p links per RFC2328. >> >> The implementations that I am aware of do not really following this >> “decision” of RFC5185 and instead stick to RFC2328 architecture by >> picking the local IP address or IfIndex even for MADJ links. This way, >> a remote router cannot really distinguish between a normal P2P link or >> a MADJ – they look the same in the LSDB. >> >> While the neighbor IP address can be learnt via the source address >> used for the hello messages, there is really no simple way to learn >> the neighbor’s IfIndex for unnumbered links [1]. > > rfc8510? > [KT] Yes > >> >> So IMHO the RFC5185 is in error and we should fix this if we have >> consensus in the WG via a BIS as suggested by Acee. > > > I'm not convinced about the error. Nor about the need of the bis. > [KT] The question is why is RFC5185 not aligned with base OSPF RFC2328 on this aspect? What was the need for MADJ to have a reverse link-data information as compared to normal P2P links? it has been defined that way and I believe it works. Unless there is something that is broken, why would we need to change? thanks, Peter > > Thanks, > Ketan > > my 2c, > Peter > > >> >> Gunter, I am not getting into your other questions because of what >> I’ve mentioned above 😊 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ketan >> >> [1] Note that over time we have introduced such mechanisms (RFC8510), >> but they have all been optional and not “base/required” behavior. >> >> *From:*Lsr *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) >> *Sent:* 30 November 2020 23:18 >> *To:* Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) >> ; Alexander Okonnikov >> ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> ; Acee Lindem (acee) >> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links >> >> You are welcome to propose an alternate solution which could possibly >> be accepted as a BIS document. However, this is not something that can >> be simply changed in an Errata to reduce the complexity. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> *From: *Lsr > on >> behalf of Gunter Van de Velde > > >> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:21 PM >> *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" > >, Alexander Okonnikov >> > >, >> "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > > >> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org " > > >> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links >> >> The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select >> remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the ‘Link Data’ is >> making things much more complicated. >> >> I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the >> ‘better’ choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it seems as a >> worse choice. >> >> A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV >> (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? >> >> Answer: >> >> For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the >> IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=easy) >> >> For numbered: >> >> 1.we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link >> >> 2.If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must be >> used to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the >> neighbor >> >> 3.If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then the >> maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex… This >> may give a match or no match >> >> 4.If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use >> the >> RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data >> >> 5.= over-complex. (If we used  for RFC5185 ‘Link Data = local ip >> address’ then (2) would given answer directly) >> >> In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise >> local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address. >> >> I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after >> receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if >> multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create >> the correct key? >> >> Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for >> RFC5185 Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is >> adding OSPF complexity without benefits. >> >> Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use >> local-ip-address instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link >> Data and avoid the additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links? >> >> Brgds, >> >> G/ >> >> *From:*Lsr > *On >> Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) >> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01 >> *To:* Alexander Okonnikov > >; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) >> > >> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF >> MIB as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn’t include the area. >> For example: >> >> --  OSPF Interface Table >> >>   ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE >> >>        SYNTAX       SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry >> >>        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible >> >>        STATUS       current >> >>        DESCRIPTION >> >>           "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces >> >>           from the viewpoint of OSPF. >> >>           It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information." >> >>        REFERENCE >> >>           "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3  Router interface >> >>           parameters" >> >>        ::= { ospf 7 } >> >>   ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE >> >>        SYNTAX       OspfIfEntry >> >>        MAX-ACCESS   not-accessible >> >>        STATUS       current >> >>        DESCRIPTION >> >>           "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface >> >>           from the viewpoint of OSPF. >> >>           Information in this table is persistent and when this >> object >> >>           is written the entity SHOULD save the change to >> non-volatile >> >>           storage." >> >> INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf } >> >>        ::= { ospfIfTable 1 } >> >> Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use >> a separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary >> addresses. My Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> >> *From: *Lsr > on >> behalf of Alexander Okonnikov > > >> *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM >> *To: *"Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > > >> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org " > > >> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links >> >> Hi Peter, >> >> 30 нояб. 2020 г., в 12:56, Peter Psenak > > написал(а): >> >> Hi Alex, >> >> On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: >> >> Hi Peter, >> Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered >> point-to-point each link has its own unique IP address, so there >> is no ambiguity. >> Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow >> reasons: >> 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that >> multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be >> encoded in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has >> its own IP address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered); >> 2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as >> unnumbered, but if interface is numbered, then IP address of the >> neighbor (rather than local one) to be encoded into Link Data, >> in order to make the link look like unnumbered; >> 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is >> no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as >> unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's >> interface is numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's >> interface is unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that >> specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention >> of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. > >> Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of >> multi-area links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed >> from Neighbor's IP address to own IP address, as it is specified >> in RFC 2328. From perspective of other routers this link can be >> treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of >> neighbor's corresponding interface. >> >> >> you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not >> mandating to send IP address really. >> >> The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link >> as numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. >> And if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we >> would not need RFC 5185 (section 1.2). >> >> One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop >> calculation (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is >> configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as >> IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface address. >> Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV >> (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we >> want to calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and >> thus router needs to match IGP link to TE link. >> >> >> I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a >> multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route >> preference rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is >> not advertised for TE purposes. >> >> Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need >> ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And >> what about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section 3? >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> Thank you. >> >> Thank you. >> >> 27 нояб. 2020 г., в 14:50, Peter Psenak > > написал(а): >> >> Alexander, >> >> On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: >> >> Hi WG, >> RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded >> into Link Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP >> address to be encoded into Link Data. What is the reason >> to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area links >> and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could >> someone comment on this? >> >> >> Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate >> ambiguity in case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. >> It's not perfect, but that's how it was specified. So it's >> not a bug. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> Thanks in advance. >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > > > From nobody Thu Dec 3 11:31:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4103A08B1 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 11:31:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MufGHrbRmtJk for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 11:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17D8E3A08AE for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 11:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id e5so1659098pjt.0 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 11:31:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cgO4vDJwpsq+n44bJhxaSRKzd4hujus+fRd51P0lpjk=; b=NajnIbIMkOvMplBilNTblngkxafhY4PrcE9XB2ZnytnHcQVq6w5DDU5krlda3t/gD0 I8jxv6EjU4o1WWw1oznerrb+dx8lLoMpfWz+6/QYZXvp1xlJcjPBOauzf/70hfLlOWJr 2vQ8sn/k0SO73edsJqIqczoB+Ir41GuNOWA1o4Fbd0HO/1/HXeylkn8lbX+WCXCiPrvA 0JLBXH97LnEJip9FO0AyOz2SoQbftw83KRAHcOvuHbMvfN/uOHyV9PfNWg/nL/qejS4j BgI2Ce2mkUZIATC3oVc4YAERNjYSnOQyMtxiBoBcmaHeDla5k2/8RNIimU5xiY5gFO63 eQfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cgO4vDJwpsq+n44bJhxaSRKzd4hujus+fRd51P0lpjk=; b=dD5d1KRByyQ3SxM3knfA9BVLggoSIO/2qyaehtvuE1D1VwCxO7uHca7oDNaHElnB7M vdp/d1WsJPGhSNkM98B/7GF3ucDFiow38hONWHtr9QzgYzgZOEL2r155AT1U58i8WyeE z73yDpJzdsuvfmq3KI3jf8+A/DWWo7fo0gcZwu8tGCV+KiEyJRiknWDnVoWWCJtI73Gh /VrFuBrcFoAlQOKuWYZJpjQe9Ggga2FcSYqmO8WDEfYmN63Lzl98t5MdCYhP7COAV6FW jDNGXGNBTG0iJwb1/aR7Rs6Z/SG3jIOk7/kda03hdgmnn7VWfHbKkov/cvpDeNuIhWjm osaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533RaJTco+mavzDHtuoSURJrbLGQ1eEbW2GkrGPPPk7L/e6dACNe iUgH5pf9xtjoDBPJvqtU5gmO0hrDs3dxckuq3hc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy8aiX3Uyl0Ln/WgomTS/JpsF4+3LJQHjFrcpUn28j1LisGYYQlf1FVlRWBuk09mnCrwd8o/lRWPXxgONKcTMU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6905:b029:d9:9114:280d with SMTP id j5-20020a1709026905b02900d99114280dmr489700plk.74.1607023868232; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 11:31:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 14:30:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Alexander Okonnikov , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cfc76805b594660b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:31:12 -0000 --000000000000cfc76805b594660b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All I agree most vendor implementation of MADJ follow RFC 2328 I think for the same reason as the confusion mentioned on this thread with link data being the neighbor router which would make very confusing to troubleshoot. Since RFC 5185 is treating the MADJ as P2P it should really follow the P2P method of RFC 2328. For interoperability I think having this issue with RFC 5185 and some vendors may follow this approach and some may prefer to use more sensible RFC 2328 approach. Agreed this must be corrected. RFC 2328 12.4.1.1. Describing point-to-point interfaces For point-to-point interfaces, one or more link descriptions are added to the router-LSA as follows: o If the neighboring router is fully adjacent, add a Type 1 link (point-to-point). The Link ID should be set to the Router ID of the neighboring router. For numbered point-to-point networks, the Link Data should specify the IP interface address. For unnumbered point-to-point networks, the Link Data field should specify the interface's MIB-II [Ref8 ] ifIndex value. The cost should be set to the output cost of the point-to-point interface. o In addition, as long as the state of the interface is "Point-to-Point" (and regardless of the neighboring router state), a Type 3 link (stub network) should be added. There are two forms that this stub link can take: Option 1 Assuming that the neighboring router's IP address is known, set the Link ID of the Type 3 link to the neighbor's IP address, the Link Data to the mask 0xffffffff (indicating a host route), and the cost to the interface's configured output cost.[15] Option 2 If a subnet has been assigned to the point-to- point link, set the Link ID of the Type 3 link to the subnet's IP address, the Link Data to the subnet's mask, and the cost to the interface's configured output cost.[16] On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 4:31 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) wrote: > Hello All, > > > > The text in RFC5185 for picking the neighbor=E2=80=99s IP Address or IfIn= dex for > the link-data is indeed very odd and flies against how things are done fo= r > normal p2p links per RFC2328. > > > > The implementations that I am aware of do not really following this > =E2=80=9Cdecision=E2=80=9D of RFC5185 and instead stick to RFC2328 archit= ecture by picking > the local IP address or IfIndex even for MADJ links. This way, a remote > router cannot really distinguish between a normal P2P link or a MADJ =E2= =80=93 they > look the same in the LSDB. > > > > While the neighbor IP address can be learnt via the source address used > for the hello messages, there is really no simple way to learn the > neighbor=E2=80=99s IfIndex for unnumbered links [1]. > > > > So IMHO the RFC5185 is in error and we should fix this if we have > consensus in the WG via a BIS as suggested by Acee. > > > > Gunter, I am not getting into your other questions because of what I=E2= =80=99ve > mentioned above =F0=9F=98=8A > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > [1] Note that over time we have introduced such mechanisms (RFC8510), but > they have all been optional and not =E2=80=9Cbase/required=E2=80=9D behav= ior. > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* 30 November 2020 23:18 > *To:* Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) < > gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>; Alexander Okonnikov < > alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) ; > Acee Lindem (acee) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > > > You are welcome to propose an alternate solution which could possibly be > accepted as a BIS document. However, this is not something that can be > simply changed in an Errata to reduce the complexity. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Gunter Van de Velde < > gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com> > *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:21 PM > *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" , Alexander > Okonnikov , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" < > ppsenak@cisco.com> > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > > > The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select > remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link Data= =E2=80=99 is making > things much more complicated. > > I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the > =E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it s= eems as a worse > choice. > > > > A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC > 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? > > > > Answer: > > For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the > IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy) > > For numbered: > > 1. we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link > > 2. If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must be > used to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the neighbo= r > > 3. If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then > the maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80= =A6 This > may give a match or no match > > 4. If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use > the RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data > > 5. =3D over-complex. (If we used for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D= local ip > address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer directly) > > > > In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise > local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address. > > I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after receivin= g > a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if multi-area or > not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create the correct key? > > > > Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 > Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF > complexity without benefits. > > > > Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use local-ip-address > instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link Data and avoid the > additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links? > > > > Brgds, > > G/ > > > > > > *From:* Lsr *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01 > *To:* Alexander Okonnikov ; Peter Psenak > (ppsenak) > *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB a= s > specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include the are= a. For > example: > > > > -- OSPF Interface Table > > > > ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE > > SYNTAX SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry > > MAX-ACCESS not-accessible > > STATUS current > > DESCRIPTION > > "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces > > from the viewpoint of OSPF. > > It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information." > > REFERENCE > > "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3 Router interface > > parameters" > > ::=3D { ospf 7 } > > > > ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE > > SYNTAX OspfIfEntry > > MAX-ACCESS not-accessible > > STATUS current > > DESCRIPTION > > "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface > > from the viewpoint of OSPF. > > > > Information in this table is persistent and when this object > > is written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile > > storage." > > INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf } > > ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 } > > > > Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a > separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My > Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Alexander Okonnikov < > alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> > *Date: *Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM > *To: *"Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links > > > > Hi Peter, > > > > 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > Hi Alex, > > On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > Hi Peter, > Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point each > link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity. > Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons: > 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that > multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in Link > Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address > (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered); > 2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but > if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than > local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look > like unnumbered; > 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more > mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, anothe= r > approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link is also > numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. T= he > rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention = of > 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. > > Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links > Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address > to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. From perspective of > other routers this link can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, dependi= ng > on configuration of neighbor's corresponding interface. > > > you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not mandatin= g > to send IP address really. > > > > The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as > numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And i= f > we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not nee= d > RFC 5185 (section 1.2). > > > > One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation > (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered > interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own = IP > interface address. > Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) t= o > corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate RSVP-= TE > LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to match IGP lin= k > to TE link. > > > I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a > multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference > rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised f= or > TE purposes. > > > > Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need > ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what > about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section 3? > > > > thanks, > Peter > > > > Thank you. > > > > Thank you. > > 27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > Alexander, > > On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > Hi WG, > RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data > field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data. > What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area link= s > and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on thi= s? > > > Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in > case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but that's > how it was specified. So it's not a bug. > > thanks, > Peter > > Thanks in advance. > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000cfc76805b594660b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All

I agree most vendor implementation of MADJ follow RFC 2328 I t= hink for the same reason as the confusion mentioned on this thread with lin= k data being the neighbor router which would make very confusing to trouble= shoot.=C2=A0 Since RFC 5185 is treating the MADJ as P2P it should really fo= llow the P2P method of RFC 2328.

For interoperability I think having this issue with RFC 5185 and = some vendors may follow this approach and some may prefer to use more sensi= ble RFC 2328 approach.

A= greed this must be corrected.


RFC 2328

Hello Aijun,

 

Every router by def= ault support algo 0.  When router support IP-FLEX algo along with defa= ult algo, we need to be deterministic when there is conflict of prefix adve= rtise in both algo. This conflict might be due to mis config. So when such condition arise, prefix belong to default = algo should give priority to be install in forwarding table.

 

Regards<= /span>

Parag

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 7:02 AM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; = 'lsr' <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithm= s (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[External Email. Be cautious of content= ]

 

Hi, authors:

 

Want to confirm one thing:<= /o:p>

Does the mechanism described in = this draft support the automatic fallback from “flex algorithm̶= 1; to the “traditional least-cost algorithm”<= /span>? 

That is to say, can one prefix e= xists both in the “flex algorithm̶= 1; table and “traditional least-cost algorithm”<= /span> table, the router prefer to forwarding the packet based on the forme= r table, and if not hit, then lookup the latter table?

 

From the context of the document= , the answer seems not, or even on the contrary?

In cases where a prefix advertisement is r= eceived in both a IPv4

   Prefix Reachability TLV and an IP= v4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability

   TLV, the IPv4 Prefix Reachability= advertisement MUST be preferred

   when installing entries in the fo= rwarding plane.

 

If so, what the value to deploy = such flexible algorithm within the network? From my POV, the reason that we= want to deploy such mechanism is that we want to differentiate the path(result of flex algorithm) of some traffi= c from that(result of traditional least-cost algorithm) of most other norma= l traffic.

 

Bes= t Regards

 

Aij= un Wang

Chi= na Telecom

 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (F= lex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01<= /o:p>

 

This IP Fl= ex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and dep= loyment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call= . Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list pri= or to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments= are certainly welcome.

Thanks,

Acee<= /o:p>

 = ;

 = ;


           =
 12.4.1.1.  Describing point-to-point interfaces

                For point-to-point interfaces, one or more link
                descriptions are added to the router-LSA as follows:

                o   If the neighboring router is fully adjacent, add a
                    Type 1 link (point-to-point). The Link ID should be
                    set to the Router ID of the neighboring router. For
                    numbered point-to-point networks, the Link Data
                    should specify the IP interface address. For
                    unnumbered point-to-point networks, the Link Data
                    field should specify the interface's MIB-II [Ref8]
                    ifIndex value. The cost should be set to the output
                    cost of the point-to-point interface.

                o   In addition, as long as the state of the interface
                    is "Point-to-Point" (and regardless of the
                    neighboring router state), a Type 3 link (stub
                    network) should be added. There are two forms that
                    this stub link can take:

                    Option 1
                        Assuming that the neighboring router's IP
                        address is known, set the Link ID of the Type 3
                        link to the neighbor's IP address, the Link Dat=
a
                        to the mask 0xffffffff (indicating a host
                        route), and the cost to the interface's
                        configured output cost.[15]

                    Option 2
                        If a subnet has been assigned to the point-to-
                        point link, set the Link ID of the Type 3 link
                        to the subnet's IP address, the Link Data to th=
e
                        subnet's mask, and the cost to the interface=
9;s
                        configured output cost.[16]


On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 4:31 AM Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &l= t;ketant=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.= ietf.org> wrote:

Hello All,

=C2=A0

The text in RFC5185 for picking the neighbor= =E2=80=99s IP Address or IfIndex for the link-data is indeed very odd and f= lies against how things are done for normal p2p links per RFC2328.

=C2=A0

The implementations that I am aware of do not = really following this =E2=80=9Cdecision=E2=80=9D of RFC5185 and instead sti= ck to RFC2328 architecture by picking the local IP address or IfIndex even = for MADJ links. This way, a remote router cannot really distinguish between a normal P2P l= ink or a MADJ =E2=80=93 they look the same in the LSDB.

=C2=A0

While the neighbor IP address can be learnt vi= a the source address used for the hello messages, there is really no simple= way to learn the neighbor=E2=80=99s IfIndex for unnumbered links [1].

=C2=A0

So IMHO the RFC5185 is in error and we should = fix this if we have consensus in the WG via a BIS as suggested by Acee.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Gunter, I am not getting into your other quest= ions because of what I=E2=80=99ve mentioned above = =F0=9F=98=8A

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Ketan

=C2=A0

[1] Note that over time we have introduced suc= h mechanisms (RFC8510), but they have all been optional and not =E2=80=9Cba= se/required=E2=80=9D behavior.

<= div class=3D"m_-1593315448683743951WordSection1">

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: 30 November 2020 23:18
To: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.= com>; Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; Peter P= senak (ppsenak) <= ppsenak@cisco.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=C2=A0

You are welcome to propose an a= lternate solution which could possibly be accepted as a BIS document. Howev= er, this is not something that can be simply changed in an Errata to reduce= the complexity.

Thanks,
Acee

=C2=A0

<= /u>=C2=A0

The = oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select remote-ip-add= ress instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link Data=E2=80=99 is mak= ing things much more complicated.

I am= surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the =E2=80=98= better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it seems as a w= orse choice.

=C2= =A0

A qu= estion that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630)= to corresponding Link in Router LSA?

=C2= =A0

Answ= er:

For = unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the IfIndex wh= en there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy)

For = numbered:

1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 we must first look if the = there is a stub type 3 link

2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 If stub type 3 exists, the= n the RFC3630 local ip address must be used to identify the correspond link= within the router TLV to the neighbor

3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 If the stub type 3 link di= d not exist in Router TLV link, then the maybe the link is unnumbered, and = we try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a match or no match<= /u>

4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 If there is no match, then= maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the RFC3630 remote IP address to ma= tch upon the Link Data

5.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D over-complex. (If we u= sed =C2=A0for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D local ip address=E2=80=99 then= (2) would given answer directly)

=C2= =A0

In a= ddition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise local-ip-ad= dress in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address.

I al= so believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after receiving a TE= Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if multi-area or not mu= lti-area? If we can not, then how can we create the correct key?

=C2= =A0

Look= ing at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 Link Da= ta seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF complexity = without benefits.

=C2= =A0

Shou= ld this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use local-ip-address instead= of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link Data and avoid the additional= unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links?

=C2= =A0

Brgd= s,

G/

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

F= rom: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; Peter Pse= nak (ppsenak) <pp= senak@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links

=C2= =A0

Hi A= lex,

=C2= =A0

Mult= i-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB as spec= ified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include the area. For= example:

=C2= =A0

--= =C2=A0 OSPF Interface Table

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0 ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SYNTAX=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAX-ACCESS=C2=A0=C2=A0 not-accessible<= /u>

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 STATUS=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 current

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DESCRIPTION

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "The OSPF Interfac= e Table describes the interfaces

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 from the viewpoint of O= SPF.

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It augments the ipAddrT= able with OSPF specific information."

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 REFERENCE

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "OSPF Version 2, A= ppendix C.3=C2=A0 Router interface

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 parameters"=

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ::=3D { ospf 7 }

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0 ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SYNTAX=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 OspfIfEntry

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 MAX-ACCESS=C2=A0=C2=A0 not-accessible<= /u>

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 STATUS=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 current

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DESCRIPTION

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "The OSPF interfac= e entry describes one interface

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 from the viewpoint of O= SPF.

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Information in this tab= le is persistent and when this object

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is written the entity S= HOULD save the change to non-volatile

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 storage."

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf }

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 }

=C2= =A0

Note= that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a separat= e subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My Redback/E= ricsson implementation allowed for this. =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2= =A0

Than= ks,

Acee=

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

Hi P= eter,

=C2=A0

30 = =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>= ; =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):<= /p>

=C2= =A0

Hi Alex,

On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:=

Hi Peter,
Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point each l= ink has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity.
Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons:
1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that multi-area= links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in Link Data field,= irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address (numbered) or borr= ow it (unnumbered);
2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if= interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than local = one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look like unnu= mbered;
3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more ment= ions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, another appr= oach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link is also num= bered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding ty= pe 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed fr= om section 3 in RFC 5185. >
Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links L= ink Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP addres= s to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. From perspective of ot= her routers this link can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's co= rresponding interface.


you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not mandating = to send IP address really.=

=C2= =A0

The = same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as nu= mbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And if we= would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not need RFC 5185 (section 1.2).=

=C2=A0

One question - how ne= ighboring router will perform next-hop calculation (in case it needs to do = so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be = its own IP interface address.
Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) to = corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate RSVP-TE= LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to match IGP link= to TE link.


I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a mult= i-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference rules = that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised for TE pu= rposes.

=C2= =A0

Why = not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need ability = to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what about calcu= lating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section 3?

=C2= =A0

thanks,
Peter

=C2= =A0

Than= k you.

=C2=A0

Thank you.

27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak &= lt;ppsenak@cisco.com> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0= =B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alexander,

On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:=

Hi WG,
RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data f= ield. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link Data= . What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for multi-area = links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could someone comment on this?<= /u>


Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in case= of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but that'= ;s how it was specified. So it's not a bug.

thanks,
Peter

Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/lsr

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Hi,

I support adoption of this draft.= =C2=A0

However I really do not think=C2=A0that wha= t Flexible Algorithm offers can be compared or even called as Traffic Engin= eering (MPLS or SR).=C2=A0

Sure Flex Algo can acco= mplish in a very elegant way with little cost multi topology routing but th= is is not full TE. It can also direct traffic based on static or dynamic ne= twork preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... ),=C2=A0 but again it is = not taking into account load of the entire network and IMHO has no way of a= ccomplish TE level traffic distribution.=C2=A0

Jus= t to make sure the=C2=A0message here is proper.=C2=A0

<= div>Thx,
R.

This IP Flex Algorith= m draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment pri= or to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins= a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12= :00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are cer= tainly welcome.

Thanks,=

Acee

=C2=A0<= /span>

=

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i13sm2786232pfo.139.2020.12.03.16.13.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:13:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Tony Li In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 16:13:38 -0800 Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> To: Robert Raszuk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 00:13:42 -0000 Hi Robert, > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).=20 >=20 > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost = multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct = traffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt = drops etc ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the = entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic = distribution.=20 >=20 > Just to make sure the message here is proper.=20 It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic = load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, = it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6= . However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo = can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very = broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more = sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. = Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for = your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not = sufficient for some. Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that = it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering. Regards, Tony From nobody Thu Dec 3 16:25:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA223A0E55 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 16:24:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id md2IRah5Kldp for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 16:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F88A3A0AA1 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 16:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id d20so5334659lfe.11 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:24:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BrYnSErheM+iqJFseYkYRQxgj1LdSaPlRGev/H7vmRQ=; b=dXZfVrA7oqaw7s4v08lDF4PzcDeZ9biMZ6YMezyMoPyj2h1/fA1gxoDJjEuAvJEeO3 dmwhaLIaVCzzDY77eb/4uo9musHqgwzR98DJOX8RFjFvzBcjSbnsT3VqYQQ6o8a2M9Yt yHTk+4Kn/v7PKEjb+8rOtlH6wtrnmJ/dKPjI/c3p/GX8oe+sJkOxKB5Ay1yuGdL6zt2b MaSVqojl4bD6845I5Y9SUe0cCdTYgUy7BXrO2k7joxCmJ8VkhxXR5A1cCYbx9NjjPTkd oZ3KYkBrABeJLlGfl15jKzO+RgHK8sQeyh6XG3fYXpM+NLy0+3bMp20QmUhFamcml98b FduQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BrYnSErheM+iqJFseYkYRQxgj1LdSaPlRGev/H7vmRQ=; b=IwzPEOAjWXG/RT+Aa5kMfKT5/vpStQ4+t6kQhUH3Sd8vkzhedFN32rQBCJBL1uxMzi LORlGWwSaFL4bQ06eykl750nE0+ZyIMvUjAhU/OwYWHei36ZXwTmpr0hzqJR9oBrm5GC SmDTobq+b4RrrExa15T4SkbIGrAi6yHn6SCYHdAtdCyIX3yMfei2/4nmclOVZ2pgrqmJ r1TKREmmkKdGFvx/NXDZc3wFRqstRVEGZuFYfoWnZfHKdiPJud4zGSd7XMc/rPzFWT9x efbZ/dH5C5TuSAcba+5LpuzaOmq1SLa76AkzLaCkp7vqbTQzw1AW7DYjpjraNLOvpaMc O6Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532HN3BRQEzsvNfRCE+N1VQwcdw7KU+RMyMw/H2UP+aWYlYwAUk/ ZTSh7qMmy/RpJLFtP6hQtSh4ZhfE9cAsM8TEXW9pug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvcxTcVaVthoBORfVyOxswget4Gz8F1vJiU9T+i2A3EQC6xjLfNyGQcZWBUIHxcdOMBDQBpK0QfUblmuzAD2w= X-Received: by 2002:a19:ca57:: with SMTP id h23mr2511535lfj.12.1607041495129; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:24:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 01:24:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: Tony Li Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000074f98905b5988148" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 00:24:59 -0000 --00000000000074f98905b5988148 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tony, The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE. If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a TE feature. However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. Best, R. On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > > > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can b= e > compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > > > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost > multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffi= c > based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops et= c > ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the entire networ= k > and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. > > > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. > > > It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Th= ere=E2=80=99s no > bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. No, it= =E2=80=99s not a > drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a good > controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. > > However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo = can=E2=80=99t be called > Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad topic. Everything that > we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF fall= s in the area of > Traffic Engineering. Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that > bucket. > > I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for you= r > application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficie= nt for some. > Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s not Traff= ic Engineering. > > Regards, > Tony > > > --00000000000074f98905b5988148 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tony,

The moment=C2=A0I hit "Se= nd" I knew that this response may be coming as it really depends what = is one's definition of TE.=C2=A0

If indeed IGP= TE is anything=C2=A0more then SPF - then sure we can call it a TE feature.= =C2=A0

However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0= really cool proposal, my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that&= #39;s all.=C2=A0

Best,
R.

<= /div>
O= n Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic b= ased on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc .= .. ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Ther= e=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not = supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo ca= n=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE is a very bro= ad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophistica= ted than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 Link co= loring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your = application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


--00000000000074f98905b5988148-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 17:18:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6EB63A11DE for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:18:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lfrQbSmT2mKj for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 997473A11DA for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id e5so2134112pjt.0 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:18:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=oqXVU2L5wVftLZ/iDWsC6qlkhcSCg+UTmxSZBmKVT8o=; b=aKWgaUn7U/ZM4q53S1rFgy4TYaTwlSdkppPvOwjFsmfJJf3pFTjNQPYkgyOaDBAw7g VWSvQFCgRzBMyHhQOHTSNZY/HmU6mkBMCaiW+D73BM2XDuZ6I+3sYUJRHONic3V6M2p1 wbetf8tl9fr7JNQEAEp0OquI22zjs38RWTGhRnHI3EwqDSB4H7GT1SWW4i3LytIRWXZs 9FEZ99YU45ry/z5Adjdd/vQ3FpV/c0hIPe68rKT0M3IK0KTA9d42mo3T3NqxTExFYALC BZ3d6gaxQgM6wSo2Yl3pYVgIcJhRh39/+jYU0b/d2eDigZRrI2ligQO1/gXYjtrG39A+ lXIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=oqXVU2L5wVftLZ/iDWsC6qlkhcSCg+UTmxSZBmKVT8o=; b=MXaUdFhMz9+6YN3CmFV9WaTUGSTjqhmsayEuV+amMdmunkGdhlrFaP8TQYeo5UmW0E vz7JEMzobtld5qOQGFs3EuiNJIb3J/2hjz5o83bvXpH8RBAM+n37flunfhD4OfclZqJ8 N6QjgsZ0hhX+Nm5V1EpuUnDkRMWvyoeP1wYc9oZucr3UwN2iHvWhEWPJoAZXvaOkOptp He3UgbkAHr0Vj43N2DF5YJ1GnKdCCZ9b1RvvBeq+0RDXURse7h6GCg2vJWVUFxgs4rg0 qdtrDiR9DGFONIvtDJgIlF4b/tnHcJwPz5MA3t+wyOzO8T3d9hNNmg0zvfVtEQ1c6HSh qWXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531XH5+Y8QjOxPx7lQgT2IwxxVe5HoVUOLsHhjXrfxFMcYvR61ID T6upMHkCBh2Ume33m/mxcpk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxTmVTqvomlPjm0DxJX81Eao2OJVcE+Ao5+ezqKJpBeIxzxfAAOi0YEltn168UD+mUGmcscIw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c215:b029:da:b079:b9a3 with SMTP id 21-20020a170902c215b02900dab079b9a3mr1617895pll.67.1607044703018; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l15sm2204121pgr.87.2020.12.03.17.18.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:18:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:18:15 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Tony Li , Robert Raszuk Cc: lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" Message-ID: <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> In-Reply-To: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5fc98e5c_66ef438d_14ed6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 01:18:28 -0000 --5fc98e5c_66ef438d_14ed6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking holisti= cally - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a better nam= e. Cheers, Jeff On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote= : > Hi Tony, > > The moment=C2=A0I hit =22Send=22 I knew that this response may be comin= g as it really depends what is one's definition of TE. > > If indeed IGP TE is anything=C2=A0more then SP=46 - then sure we can ca= ll it a TE feature. > > However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0really cool proposal, my poi= nt is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. > > Best, > R. > > > > On =46ri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wr= ote: > > > > > > Hi Robert, > > > > > > > > > > However I really do not think that what =46lexible Algorithm offe= rs can be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > > > > > > > Sure =46lex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little= cost multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct = traffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt = drops etc ... ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of th= e entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distr= ibution. > > > > > > > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. > > > > > > > > > It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that =46lexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitat= ions. There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynami= c load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No= , it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80= =A6. > > > > > > However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that =46= lexAlgo can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE i= s a very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s m= ore sophisticated than simple SP=46 falls in the area of Traffic Engineer= ing.=C2=A0 Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. > > > > > > I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features f= or your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not = sufficient for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying = that it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Tony > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Lsr mailing list > Lsr=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --5fc98e5c_66ef438d_14ed6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is consider= ed TE. Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could = have been a better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robe= rt Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment&=23160;I hit =22Send=22 I knew that this response may be = coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE.&=23160;
=

If indeed IGP TE is anything&=23160;more then SP=46 - then sure we c= an call it a TE feature.&=23160;

However, while a very&=23160;useful and&=23160;really cool proposal,= my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all.&=23160;

Best,
R.


On =46ri, Dec 4, 2020 at = 1:13 AM Tony Li <tony1a= thome=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what =46lexible Algorithm offers = can be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
= >
> Sure =46lex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little co= st multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct tra= ffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt dro= ps etc ... ),&=23160; but again it is not taking into account load of the= entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distri= bution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that =46lexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load= balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it d= oes not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.
However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that =46lexAlg= o can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.&=23160; After all TE is a = very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more = sophisticated than simple SP=46 falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.= &=23160; Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for you= r application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffic= ient for some.&=23160; Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that= it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Lsr mailing list
Lsr=40ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--5fc98e5c_66ef438d_14ed6-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 17:48:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FE33A0408 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:47:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XtiVdra2btbR for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102b.google.com (mail-pj1-x102b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 475883A11F8 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 17:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102b.google.com with SMTP id o7so2241114pjj.2 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:47:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UPIEXxDyoX24dsP9bHo1xt9MsLtVbN4ZXJMIYCdh7Aw=; b=lejD+gMYG2Nn1VsE42j83rqQO/SdERYREGM95RieE4yGX9WWK3Jexm2s6G6eE/0BUe V8jaHrROgYdqaBkMCOy42MVaebphVpgdkq8aCoWZSMwRGPw/psOYOZGGkYj2QX4o6Qc1 AGEk+YyvbcxbEMACKHoSjH59ZSVvwWNBrf4R4He4O219AEPbRzmQv2+WoSIpU4QseyQ0 XrvcvzOcs4XiKNNY07wAG9YT5ozmKXK+FTAD+YxKENIryUVoeCan3MuskxDZEt5kOZiE hiGWusVN/pTRegaUAu0VHtuU0DFirsX2r6mPGcJKJBSZQNYKBSs3zSgzVQBqLsW+somT Br+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UPIEXxDyoX24dsP9bHo1xt9MsLtVbN4ZXJMIYCdh7Aw=; b=niisPV5EcSPyl3cBK2V2QPZDWS8A8FlfPv26w1knwtrzQpUuAupEM/K+qunKQuh9gD PN+kVwcxDXn0rSX0floJFIbfbhiYivomw6Obfv2MrDYRXHRB6pY5/gDKgRWNWHL7grSu fzGE5BL7bAOqUa5iY6HVd7BbUTqB8ZMC/Z9qC4scKO1wlLM+xN1mDvfk1oPVDSrw9N6m f2EGnQFjYliXaJ73EQbjT02GK8frQaX117cPZxu/lmjL1LAT4m0kHRTx0jVwvtapzO0h bn47G4lXmecKB8lq/RdvUMb9i8R+JL9rn4CVSyjrmhmITpvOZr3Lo18aUdzpk+az4XWb h6mA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53221vy7YeMo4Cu59Ukq2pDV7F0q9zS/zWibC4xI10t1PCACn4Fw odAzFqx+D55lguczXS1fWH7yiB4P7TIv3v+1A4o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyb6ABgEhqpkyi1gWBBAuyq31O3MfokqU/+PWxQ00GEeYyDiinnnIrL7fsPTd2fJpDiwETstIKKQpAEmDfqako= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:178b:: with SMTP id q11mr1851309pja.132.1607046474487; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:47:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> In-Reply-To: <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 20:46:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Robert Raszuk , Tony Li , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003fdc8105b599aa99" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 01:47:59 -0000 --0000000000003fdc8105b599aa99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long time using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. I had designed in my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest bandwidth links and lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B such that you take the highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a formula for path instantiation. This is the essence of flex algo basically an engineered algorithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation. This concept works well for global table or single routing instance, however if you have multiple VPNs and you want to realize per VPN coloring capabilities it is much different then use of flex algo with a single IGP global table routing following a single algo or multiple sub set algo=E2=80= =99s. That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and link attributes came into play in an MPLS context. However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN mapping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scalable solution. Now requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop rewrite to map each VPN to a different color steered statically to a different loopback egress PE iBGP next hop then the default iBGP global table next hop. That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much needed= gap of per VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loose path prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done via centralized controller. The gap where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool on the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional steering granularity and path instantiation control used in conjunction with SR-TE. The gap IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routing being able to create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR does not exist. So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operators on the public core have MPLS or SR and would like an alternative. This could be used in both core and data center space as well IP based infrastructure. RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another somewhat mutually exclusive niche. Kind Regards Gyan On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking > holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a > better name. > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote: > > Hi Tony, > > The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it > really depends what is one's definition of TE. > > If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a T= E > feature. > > However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to mak= e > sure this is not oversold - that's all. > > Best, > R. > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: > >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> >> > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can >> be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). >> > >> > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost >> multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traff= ic >> based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops e= tc >> ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netwo= rk >> and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. >> > >> > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >> >> >> It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. T= here=E2=80=99s no >> bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. No, it= =E2=80=99s not a >> drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a good >> controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. >> >> However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo= can=E2=80=99t be called >> Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad topic. Everything tha= t >> we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF fal= ls in the area of >> Traffic Engineering. Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into tha= t >> bucket. >> >> I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for yo= ur >> application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffici= ent for some. >> Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s not Traf= fic Engineering. >> >> Regards, >> Tony >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --0000000000003fdc8105b599aa99 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


In fact the co= ncept of traffic engineering has been around for a long time using simple I= GP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. =C2=A0

I had designed in my past life a cost= ing algorithm where you use highest bandwidth links and lowest latency as t= he crow flies point A to point B such that you take the highest bandwidth l= owest latency path based on a formula for path instantiation.=C2=A0 This is= the essence of flex algo basically an engineered algorithm algo xyz for a = sub routing instance instantiation. =C2=A0

This concept works well for global table or single routi= ng instance, however if you have multiple VPNs and you want to realize per = VPN coloring capabilities it is much different then use of flex algo with a= single IGP global table routing following a single algo or multiple sub se= t algo=E2=80=99s.

That= =E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and link attr= ibutes came into play in an MPLS context.

=
However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to prov= ide per VRF VPN mapping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scal= able solution.=C2=A0 Now requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop = rewrite to map each VPN to a different color steered statically to a differ= ent loopback egress PE iBGP next hop then the default iBGP global table nex= t hop. =C2=A0

That=E2=80= =99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much needed gap of pe= r VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loose path pre= fix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done via centra= lized controller.

The ga= p where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool on the op= erator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional steering gra= nularity and path instantiation control used in conjunction with SR-TE.

The gap IP flex algo fills = is internet providers global table routing being able to create logical tra= ffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR does not exist. =C2=A0

So that is a huge much needed gap = as not all operators on the public core have MPLS or SR and would like an a= lternative.=C2=A0

This c= ould be used in both core and data center space as well IP based infrastruc= ture.

RSVP TE and SR hav= e their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another somewhat mutually excl= usive niche.

Kind Regard= s=C2=A0

Gyan
<= br>
On Thu,= Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE.= Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have bee= n a better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Ras= zuk <robert@raszu= k.net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment=C2=A0I hit "Send" I knew that this response may b= e coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE.=C2=A0

If indeed IGP TE is anything=C2=A0more then SPF - then sure we can cal= l it a TE feature.=C2=A0

However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0really cool proposal, my po= int is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all.=C2=A0

Best,
R.


On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony L= i <tony1athom= e@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic b= ased on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc .= .. ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Ther= e=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not = supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo ca= n=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE is a very bro= ad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophistica= ted than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 Link co= loring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your = application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--
--0000000000003fdc8105b599aa99-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 19:13:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB6C3A1276 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:13:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tDsZuxIEm9lC for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A2193A1274 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 5EB9E45118; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 11:13:11 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Jeff Tantsura'" , "'Tony Li'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" Cc: "'lsr'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> In-Reply-To: <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 11:13:10 +0800 Message-ID: <014401d6c9eb$65c64b00$3152e100$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0145_01D6CA2E.73EA4E50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH8VnFOXLr2+nfgZyr1vMlff0Wn2AIpsSyTAjDsTs0Bc0VtJgG5vPkmqV7q2BA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZSEhNGB8dGU4ZGB4YVkpNS0xLTkpOQkpNT0JVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6OU06Eyo*Nz8UTTgSSg1NDhVR Kw1PCkxVSlVKTUtMS05KTkJJS0NPVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUpNQkpINwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a762bbd3f7d9865kuuu5eb9e45118 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 03:13:19 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01D6CA2E.73EA4E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jeff: =20 Static TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real world. If the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, = is it just another static resource allocation and prefix assignment = method? =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Jeff = Tantsura Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:18 AM To: Tony Li ; Robert Raszuk Cc: lsr ; Acee Lindem (acee) = Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 =20 Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking = holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a = better name. =20 Cheers,=20 Jeff On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk >, wrote: Hi Tony,=20 =20 The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it = really depends what is one's definition of TE.=20 =20 If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a = TE feature.=20 =20 However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to = make sure this is not oversold - that's all.=20 =20 Best, R. =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li > wrote: Hi Robert, > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost = multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct = traffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt = drops etc ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the = entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic = distribution. > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic = load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, = it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., = etc=E2=80=A6. However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo = can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very = broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more = sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. = Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for = your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not = sufficient for some. Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that = it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering. Regards, Tony _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01D6CA2E.73EA4E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_0145_01D6CA2E.73EA4E50-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 19:44:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DCE3A12C3 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:44:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YTMjOI_DOHn9 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com (mail-pl1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF3B13A12C2 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id 4so2369043plk.5 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:44:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=IQHw1lzYBZukXAwnb8LQkAKa9a22dVLzk6VSzNIkIFg=; b=njoisWeG7JCo9o25EY+Mwg0MnyQpGdBKrJKyb8q2UB5p5zirvUaTj8tpr01eevTf1v F8UkSbVCflV2/gn6vJvrR4DVSdEyTBjyd0neObk95QdW80XO/i/ah5+8ApqsV54zXDkQ jFvar4F5X1cxH4p6j5Z8rhczSWSRhj5NYc4ZytfRyCdyhtSQHICgAkp1PJchZh+IJUvG 35l6k+bzscO6P4+g2w50j7T8qPyjqxJon6EORGUHhAMuN0Wu0jioc66bHIbgTiw6Y6F3 Wq377Y6uM7bo5eHCRhdMEXDlGNvnLMGmhG0nWxHvOcL1iV/ptE5tVqNANEMJQxHGw2SZ /0kA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=IQHw1lzYBZukXAwnb8LQkAKa9a22dVLzk6VSzNIkIFg=; b=ZT9wqCTkPR+rK41GJ5WxixfM5eR69oXl5+pQ/XmQY8BL24bl5jZKzvNR4BsFboZQ3u GNXwcK/Ae1ae11iRNJq1c82due7Qe994oQ7rvhccFhV4+gY3r77Ch3kiCNHSxftQPbvX yTmJAiAIhnC2h9rZcOYHu81h2CC1hRVe/Vb+UocIYJCLL4AkRPLkXoOqlNYS1ebpxIax eFgq85fSsufCGXfU1pSlL6yi6Pl9u+K2BzPgzqZENKTuMaWuxB5hqEUAOki28Ooq1hB4 UO2suxqktkAHnKPrX4JOLkeq/eHj6U//44VFGXUwAR81LlnEigt1EI0rZDTaf1PdULg6 UPrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zl9nHV56MHqXAzoYXIsTuLmPlamTpqrCFycuDlsFXPZvYgySl jgxuet+9jq2jSXPjnpOtihhFD8aAvRs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwbxeYaYC+dsInP6er29Fenwh9a1HaVOfmeALYFzz5zfaSglAJYTucnO1zdmhymFffek2eNOw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:117:: with SMTP id p23mr2216473pjz.111.1607053476297; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.12] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d19sm644529pjs.0.2020.12.03.19.44.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:44:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-CF908CB6-84A5-402B-B5F8-F66C55F6E83E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Tantsura Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:44:33 -0800 Message-Id: References: <014401d6c9eb$65c64b00$3152e100$@tsinghua.org.cn> Cc: Tony Li , Robert Raszuk , lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" In-Reply-To: <014401d6c9eb$65c64b00$3152e100$@tsinghua.org.cn> To: Aijun Wang X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18B92) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 03:44:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail-CF908CB6-84A5-402B-B5F8-F66C55F6E83E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Aijun, How=E2=80=99s my response triggered yours? Where do you see my talking about static vs dynamic TE? It you are looking for a philosophical angle - perhaps we could talk about c= entralized vs distributed TE and complexity of each one. Regards, Jeff > On Dec 3, 2020, at 19:13, Aijun Wang wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi, Jeff: > =20 > Static TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real world. > If the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, i= s it just another static resource allocation and prefix assignment method? > =20 > =20 > Best Regards > =20 > Aijun Wang > China Telecom > =20 > From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsu= ra > Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:18 AM > To: Tony Li ; Robert Raszuk > Cc: lsr ; Acee Lindem (acee) > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Alg= orithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > =20 > Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking holistic= ally - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a better name. > =20 > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote: >=20 > Hi Tony, > =20 > The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it real= ly depends what is one's definition of TE.=20 > =20 > If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a TE= feature.=20 > =20 > However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to make= sure this is not oversold - that's all.=20 > =20 > Best, > R. > =20 > =20 > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: >=20 > Hi Robert, >=20 >=20 > > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can be= compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > > > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost mul= ti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic base= d on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... )= , but again it is not taking into account load of the entire network and IM= HO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. > > > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >=20 >=20 > It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. The= re=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not s= upplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. >=20 > However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo c= an=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad to= pic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated th= an simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. Link coloring and S= RLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your= application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some. Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s n= ot Traffic Engineering. >=20 > Regards, > Tony >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --Apple-Mail-CF908CB6-84A5-402B-B5F8-F66C55F6E83E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Aijun,

How=E2=80=99s m= y response triggered yours?
Where do you see my talking about stat= ic vs dynamic TE?
It you are looking for a philosophical angle - p= erhaps we could talk about centralized vs distributed TE and complexity of e= ach one.

Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, at 19:13, Aijun Wang= <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

Hi, Jeff:

 

Static TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real world.

If the LFA mechanism c= an only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, is it just another static= resource allocation and prefix assignment method?

 

 

Best Regards

 <= /span>

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

 <= /o:p>

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:18 AM
To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net= >
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D4= 0cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call f= or "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-= lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Look= ing holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a be= tter name.

 

Cheers,

Jef= f

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:21.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.75g= d">On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, wrote:

Hi Ton= y,

 

The moment I hit "Send" I kn= ew that this response may be coming as it really depends what is one's defin= ition of TE. 

=  

If indeed IG= P TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a TE feature.=  

 <= /o:p>

However, while a very&nb= sp;useful and really cool proposal, my point is to make sure this is no= t oversold - that's all. 

 

= Best,
R.

&n= bsp;

 <= /span>

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM T= ony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> wrote:


Hi Robert,


> However I really d= o not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can be compared or even call= ed as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can a= ccomplish in a very elegant way with little cost multi topology routing but t= his is not full TE. It can also direct traffic based on static or dynamic ne= twork preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... ),  but again it is n= ot taking into account load of the entire network and IMHO has no way of acc= omplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the= message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAl= go (IP or SR) has limitations. There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. The= re=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in repla= cement for RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc.,= etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s f= air to say that FlexAlgo can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.  A= fter all TE is a very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2= =80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engi= neering.  Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.
I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for y= our application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffici= ent for some.  Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony

<= /span>

______________________= _________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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[73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c132sm695487pfc.119.2020.12.03.19.54.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Dec 2020 19:54:02 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-43529CAD-13C8-44F6-ACBD-6917E6DE9FD5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jeff Tantsura Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 19:54:01 -0800 Message-Id: <250DE4E0-68E7-480D-881F-BAAB86BB220C@gmail.com> References: Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Robert Raszuk , Tony Li , lsr In-Reply-To: To: Gyan Mishra X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18B92) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 03:54:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail-43529CAD-13C8-44F6-ACBD-6917E6DE9FD5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being able to provide a number of technolo= gies that help operators with different requirements and constraints to prov= ide their services in a most optimized way, hence my support for flex-algo, e= ither labeled or not as a technology on the dynamic spectrum of the solution= space. One can achieve similar results on a single topology with a centralized cont= roller, there are trade-offs in either, extremities on either side are count= erproductive .=20 Regards, Jeff > On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >=20 > In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long time= using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. =20 >=20 > I had designed in my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest b= andwidth links and lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B such t= hat you take the highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a formula fo= r path instantiation. This is the essence of flex algo basically an enginee= red algorithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation. =20 >=20 > This concept works well for global table or single routing instance, howev= er if you have multiple VPNs and you want to realize per VPN coloring capabi= lities it is much different then use of flex algo with a single IGP global t= able routing following a single algo or multiple sub set algo=E2=80=99s. >=20 > That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and link= attributes came into play in an MPLS context. >=20 > However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN m= apping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scalable solution. No= w requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop rewrite to map each VPN t= o a different color steered statically to a different loopback egress PE iBG= P next hop then the default iBGP global table next hop. =20 >=20 > That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much neede= d gap of per VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loos= e path prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done v= ia centralized controller. >=20 > The gap where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool on= the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional steeri= ng granularity and path instantiation control used in conjunction with SR-TE= . >=20 > The gap IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routing bein= g able to create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR does n= ot exist. =20 >=20 > So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operators on the public core h= ave MPLS or SR and would like an alternative.=20 >=20 > This could be used in both core and data center space as well IP based inf= rastructure. >=20 > RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another som= ewhat mutually exclusive niche. >=20 > Kind Regards=20 >=20 > Gyan >=20 >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura wr= ote: >> Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking holisti= cally - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a better name. >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Jeff >>> On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote:= >>> Hi Tony, >>>=20 >>> The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it re= ally depends what is one's definition of TE.=20 >>>=20 >>> If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a T= E feature.=20 >>>=20 >>> However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to ma= ke sure this is not oversold - that's all.=20 >>>=20 >>> Best, >>> R. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Robert, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can= be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). >>>> > >>>> > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic ba= sed on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ...= ), but again it is not taking into account load of the entire network and I= MHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. >>>> > >>>> > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. T= here=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load bal= ancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not= supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. >>>>=20 >>>> However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlg= o can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad= topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated= than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. Link coloring an= d SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. >>>>=20 >>>> I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for y= our application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffici= ent for some. Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99= s not Traffic Engineering. >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>> Tony >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Gyan Mishra > Network Solutions Architect=20 > M 301 502-1347 > 13101 Columbia Pike=20 > Silver Spring, MD >=20 --Apple-Mail-43529CAD-13C8-44F6-ACBD-6917E6DE9FD5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being abl= e to provide a number of technologies that help operators with different req= uirements and constraints to provide their services in a most optimized way,= hence my support for flex-algo, either labeled or not as a technology on th= e dynamic spectrum of the solution space.
One can achieve similar result= s on a single topology with a centralized controller, there are trade-offs i= n either, extremities on either side are counterproductive . 

Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@= gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF


In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long= time using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. &= nbsp;

I had designed in m= y past life a costing algorithm where you use highest bandwidth links and lo= west latency as the crow flies point A to point B such that you take the hig= hest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a formula for path instantiation= .  This is the essence of flex algo basically an engineered algorithm a= lgo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation.  

This concept works well for global table or s= ingle routing instance, however if you have multiple VPNs and you want to re= alize per VPN coloring capabilities it is much different then use of flex al= go with a single IGP global table routing following a single algo or multipl= e sub set algo=E2=80=99s.

That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and link a= ttributes came into play in an MPLS context.

However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to pro= vide per VRF VPN mapping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scal= able solution.  Now requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop r= ewrite to map each VPN to a different color steered statically to a differen= t loopback egress PE iBGP next hop then the default iBGP global table next h= op.  

That=E2=80=99s= where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much needed gap of per VRF= coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loose path prefix si= d or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done via centralized c= ontroller.

The gap where f= lex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool on the operator too= lbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional steering granularity an= d path instantiation control used in conjunction with SR-TE.

The gap IP flex algo fills is internet pr= oviders global table routing being able to create logical traffic steering c= onstructs where MPLS or SR does not exist.  
So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operat= ors on the public core have MPLS or SR and would like an alternative. <= /div>

This could be used in bot= h core and data center space as well IP based infrastructure.

RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now I= P flex algo fills yet another somewhat mutually exclusive niche.

Kind Regards 

Gyan

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jef= f Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmai= l.com> wrote:
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. L= ooking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a= better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Rasz= uk <robert@raszuk.= net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as= it really depends what is one's definition of TE. 

If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call= it a TE feature. 

However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my poi= nt is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. 

Best,
R.


On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li= <tony1athome@= gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can b= e compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost mu= lti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic bas= ed on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... )= ,  but again it is not taking into account load of the entire network a= nd IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. There= =E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balanci= ng. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not sup= plant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo can= =E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.  After all TE is a very broad= topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated= than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.  Link colori= ng and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your a= pplication, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient f= or some.  Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99= s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--


<= i>Network Solutions Architect 

M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike 
Silver Spring, MD

H= i, Jeff:

<= o:p> 

S= tatic TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real = world.

I= f the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, = is it just another static resource allocation and prefix assignment = method?

<= o:p> 

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom

<= o:p> 

From:<= /b> = lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of = Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:18 = AM
To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>; Robert Raszuk = <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee = Lindem (acee) = <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] = WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In = IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. = Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have = been a better name.

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, = wrote:

Hi Tony,

 

The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this = response may be coming as it really depends what is one's definition of = TE. 

 

If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure = we can call it a TE feature. 

 

However, while a very useful and really cool = proposal, my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that's = all. 

 

Best,
R.

 

 

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> = wrote:


Hi Robert,


> However I really do not = think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can be compared or even called = as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can = accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost multi topology routing = but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic based on static or = dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... ),  but = again it is not taking into account load of the entire network and IMHO = has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> = Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s = absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic = load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, = it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., = etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair = to say that FlexAlgo can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.  = After all TE is a very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done = that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of = Traffic Engineering.  Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall = into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the = right TE features for your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean = that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient for some.  Please don=E2=80=99t = mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s not Traffic = Engineering.

Regards,
Tony

_______________________________________________
Lsr = mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/lsr

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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:= 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }div.FoxDiv20201204120110349746 { }body { font-si= ze: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0= , 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }=0A=
Hello All,

I've read the draft a= nd support its adoption. I have some comments as follows.

1. I agree with Jeff that Flex Algo represents a sub- topology cons= isting of the participating nodes, which we can also call a virtual network= . In this specific virtual network that the corresponding flex algo calcula= tion is applied. 
=0A=

2. For section three, why do we need one loopback addre= ss for one Flex-Algorithm? Can't we associate multiple Flex-Algor= ithms with one loopback address, which means we want to reach the loopback = address through different paths?

3. The second par= agraph in section 3 does not describe Egress Node Procedures. This paragrap= h should be put in a seperate section.

4. I want t= o know the path for a specific IP Flex-Algorithm is calculate= d distributedly by each nodes paticipating this Flex-A= lgorithm or calculated centralized by an controller? I= wonder we can guarantee the loop= free  path with IP Flex-Algorithm especially whe= n the path is calculated distributedly?

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li<= /span>
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
Date:&n= bsp;2020-12-04 09:18
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "I= GP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica= -lsr-ip-flexalgo-01
=0A=
=0A=
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE.= Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have bee= n a better name.
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
Cheers,=0A=
Jeff
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Ras= zuk <robert@raszuk.net>, wrote:
=0A=
=0A=
Hi Tony,=0A=

=0A=
The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may b= e coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE. 
= =0A=

=0A=
If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can cal= l it a TE feature. 
=0A=

=0A=
However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my po= int is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. 
=0A=

=0A=
Best,
=0A= R.
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony L= i <tony1athome@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
=0A=

=0A= Hi Robert,
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
=0A= >
=0A= > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic b= ased on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc .= .. ),  but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
=0A= >
=0A= > Just to make sure the message here is proper.
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Ther= e=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not = supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.
=0A=
=0A= However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo ca= n=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.  After all TE is a very bro= ad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophistica= ted than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.  Link co= loring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.
=0A=
=0A= I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your = application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some.  Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.
=0A=
=0A= Regards,
=0A= Tony
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= _______________________________________________
=0A= Lsr mailing list
=0A= Lsr@ietf.org
=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= = ------=_001_NextPart458673320488_=------ From nobody Thu Dec 3 21:28:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7103A0AF6 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:28:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A4HsjQnuxmw8 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A37ED3A0ADA for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 21:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id e23so2821486pgk.12 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 21:28:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n2icTpbDo5g2vI980MJW9AlUKVW/4GprA878kCuS3Gk=; b=viCJ8uZlAIUW+nepLEKqfJ60uz/v119KX/rx2w8iPklIQz2jEkqeckGeP0nn+5goPE dLRYDeMxbaAoxYGebZpneoasOiWiRn2bVBTh3EucX79UeL+kBK7i0oTo9X2AgC/8gf/G WTO9JE6eblxXM+XBi4T2880TXkdEEIMtU+6uxAUanTBlUZEQvSBUoSc52UMJkTF/dJq5 e+8K2f6bMmRMdeem5ZPLgZY++60tRKsVS6n+IxxJQejoNlDWt3kt4QJFXX9Xj/7CVl8H HnBF4W3WEVL1zOzMHxm5SmLIp/DiO+M91CQJ99+666rpIBZs7RogaI+1hsqIIgTt/Lak XBTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n2icTpbDo5g2vI980MJW9AlUKVW/4GprA878kCuS3Gk=; b=KNBJA4VOYqT0dezaAbFY3G8emGcMWacH5m2pmqFzcn9JTX62u3lmYx2dRCGTn39g5w LJpo9njmFxIQHBaCafXAn6fV3XLqcgdRwu/Oo+nIMKuwA/ToCcFxwnxSTkqsm337uUqe 4FzAV4IvePpy23unyBnvFXONdcAWsh9ljwu6gLVwHZaRIwdpPaPUe8ZRR6RPYZsIU9Je AKS3nIIwciTcaMKJTH5OShkWq1ueMo6ZZM769Qi/DqUiVSgQ7BPX+D1zHUCQw3CO9vow XKGQquvAFWKCQgndhLfpn9H8YpBTkSQaMPwdKeE6BFgEAOxuFoLE5aAvILyiOo0TdDfk bViQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ZSegMJWATcv938ujFSg6EBMT8VVuHHmssJ5Bcq44MYpPh39j3 hEFbCVdE3n5waxgKqKvCCiEAA9sgfXbGZd1By0A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwhsd1+J27uxVScm8cms95UTiOIqdZiVY4eGmMGGNcAS1FY+fctGoaMnkBCjMvqSLezxtNUvtA4HsKWHBPGuAY= X-Received: by 2002:a62:5543:0:b029:19d:930f:9a17 with SMTP id j64-20020a6255430000b029019d930f9a17mr2312662pfb.20.1607059724948; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 21:28:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <250DE4E0-68E7-480D-881F-BAAB86BB220C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <250DE4E0-68E7-480D-881F-BAAB86BB220C@gmail.com> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 00:28:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Robert Raszuk , Tony Li , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000009d7cc05b59cc0ab" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 05:28:48 -0000 --00000000000009d7cc05b59cc0ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 for IP flex algo for operators toolbox Thanks On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:54 PM Jeff Tantsura wrote: > I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being able to provide a number of techn= ologies > that help operators with different requirements and constraints to provid= e > their services in a most optimized way, hence my support for flex-algo, > either labeled or not as a technology on the dynamic spectrum of the > solution space. > One can achieve similar results on a single topology with a centralized > controller, there are trade-offs in either, extremities on either side ar= e > counterproductive . > > Regards, > Jeff > > On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > > > In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long tim= e > using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. > > I had designed in my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest > bandwidth links and lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B > such that you take the highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a > formula for path instantiation. This is the essence of flex algo basical= ly > an engineered algorithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation= . > > This concept works well for global table or single routing instance, > however if you have multiple VPNs and you want to realize per VPN colorin= g > capabilities it is much different then use of flex algo with a single IGP > global table routing following a single algo or multiple sub set algo=E2= =80=99s. > > That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and lin= k > attributes came into play in an MPLS context. > > However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN > mapping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scalable solution. > Now requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop rewrite to map each > VPN to a different color steered statically to a different loopback egres= s > PE iBGP next hop then the default iBGP global table next hop. > > That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much need= ed gap of > per VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loose path > prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done via > centralized controller. > > The gap where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool o= n > the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional > steering granularity and path instantiation control used in conjunction > with SR-TE. > > The gap IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routing > being able to create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR > does not exist. > > So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operators on the public core > have MPLS or SR and would like an alternative. > > This could be used in both core and data center space as well IP based > infrastructure. > > RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another > somewhat mutually exclusive niche. > > Kind Regards > > Gyan > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking >> holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a >> better name. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote: >> >> Hi Tony, >> >> The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it >> really depends what is one's definition of TE. >> >> If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a >> TE feature. >> >> However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to >> make sure this is not oversold - that's all. >> >> Best, >> R. >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Robert, >>> >>> >>> > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can >>> be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). >>> > >>> > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost >>> multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traf= fic >>> based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops = etc >>> ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork >>> and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. >>> > >>> > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >>> >>> >>> It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s >>> no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. No= , it=E2=80=99s not a >>> drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a good >>> controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. >>> >>> However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlg= o can=E2=80=99t be called >>> Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad topic. Everything th= at >>> we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF fa= lls in the area of >>> Traffic Engineering. Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into th= at >>> bucket. >>> >>> I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for y= our >>> application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffic= ient for some. >>> Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s not Tra= ffic Engineering. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Tony >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> > -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike > *Silver > Spring, MD > > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --00000000000009d7cc05b59cc0ab Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1 for IP flex algo for operators toolbox= =C2=A0

Thanks

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:54 PM= Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf= @gmail.com> wrote:
I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being able to provide a number = of technologies that help operators with different requirements and constra= ints to provide their services in a most optimized way, hence my support fo= r flex-algo, either labeled or not as a technology on the dynamic spectrum = of the solution space.
One can achieve similar results on a single topo= logy with a centralized controller, there are trade-offs in either, extremi= ties on either side are counterproductive .=C2=A0

Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF


In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long= time using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP. = =C2=A0

I had designed in= my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest bandwidth links and= lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B such that you take the= highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a formula for path instanti= ation.=C2=A0 This is the essence of flex algo basically an engineered algor= ithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation. =C2=A0

This concept works well for global t= able or single routing instance, however if you have multiple VPNs and you = want to realize per VPN coloring capabilities it is much different then use= of flex algo with a single IGP global table routing following a single alg= o or multiple sub set algo=E2=80=99s.

That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandw= idth and link attributes came into play in an MPLS context.

However, now trying to expand traditi= onal RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN mapping and coloring is now a daunting = painful and non scalable solution.=C2=A0 Now requires with RSVP static rout= es and VRF next hop rewrite to map each VPN to a different color steered st= atically to a different loopback egress PE iBGP next hop then the default i= BGP global table next hop. =C2=A0

That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that m= uch needed gap of per VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP = world loose path prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation= now done via centralized controller.

The gap where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think= is a tool on the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided add= itional steering granularity and path instantiation control used in conjunc= tion with SR-TE.

The gap= IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routing being able t= o create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR does not exis= t. =C2=A0

So that is a h= uge much needed gap as not all operators on the public core have MPLS or SR= and would like an alternative.=C2=A0

This could be used in both core and data center space as well= IP based infrastructure.

RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another so= mewhat mutually exclusive niche.

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE.= Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have bee= n a better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Ras= zuk <robert@raszu= k.net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment=C2=A0I hit "Send" I knew that this response may b= e coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE.=C2=A0

If indeed IGP TE is anything=C2=A0more then SPF - then sure we can cal= l it a TE feature.=C2=A0

However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0really cool proposal, my po= int is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all.=C2=A0

Best,
R.


On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony L= i <tony1athom= e@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic b= ased on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc .= .. ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Ther= e=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not = supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo ca= n=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE is a very bro= ad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophistica= ted than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 Link co= loring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your = application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


<= /div>
--

<= a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);padding-bo= ttom:1em;display:inline-block" target=3D"_blank">

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

, Robert Raszuk , Tony Li , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b63a7705b59cf5fb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 05:43:48 -0000 --000000000000b63a7705b59cf5fb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron IP Flex Algo provides one half of the puzzle control plane framework, however just as Flex Algo built for SR is instantiated on SR data plane, I remember you had mentioned an IPV6 data plane =E2=80=9Cnon SR=E2=80=9D base= d framework possible a new RH would be used for the loose or strict path instantiation. We were going to discuss that question I had on the original thread on IP flex algo but we didn=E2=80=99t get to it. For IP flex algorithm as this is the main architecture document for the technology feature should it reference the data plane instantiation of the path. I guess it could be done with a separate draft but I think as this would serve the architecture framework I think maybe the perfect spot. Kind Regards Gyan On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:28 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > > +1 for IP flex algo for operators toolbox > > Thanks > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:54 PM Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being able to provide a number of tech= nologies >> that help operators with different requirements and constraints to provi= de >> their services in a most optimized way, hence my support for flex-algo, >> either labeled or not as a technology on the dynamic spectrum of the >> solution space. >> One can achieve similar results on a single topology with a centralized >> controller, there are trade-offs in either, extremities on either side a= re >> counterproductive . >> >> Regards, >> Jeff >> >> On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra wrote: >> >> =EF=BB=BF >> >> >> >> In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been around for a long >> time using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic using the IGP= . >> >> I had designed in my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest >> bandwidth links and lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B >> such that you take the highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a >> formula for path instantiation. This is the essence of flex algo basica= lly >> an engineered algorithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiatio= n. >> >> This concept works well for global table or single routing instance, >> however if you have multiple VPNs and you want to realize per VPN colori= ng >> capabilities it is much different then use of flex algo with a single IG= P >> global table routing following a single algo or multiple sub set algo=E2= =80=99s. >> >> That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path computation and bandwidth and li= nk >> attributes came into play in an MPLS context. >> >> However, now trying to expand traditional RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN >> mapping and coloring is now a daunting painful and non scalable solution= . >> Now requires with RSVP static routes and VRF next hop rewrite to map eac= h >> VPN to a different color steered statically to a different loopback egre= ss >> PE iBGP next hop then the default iBGP global table next hop. >> >> That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE now fills that much nee= ded gap >> of per VRF coloring to build the same as we had in the RSVP world loose >> path prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path instantiation now done >> via centralized controller. >> >> The gap where flex algo comes into play is unique but I think is a tool >> on the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex algo provided additional >> steering granularity and path instantiation control used in conjunction >> with SR-TE. >> >> The gap IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routing >> being able to create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or S= R >> does not exist. >> >> So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operators on the public cor= e >> have MPLS or SR and would like an alternative. >> >> This could be used in both core and data center space as well IP based >> infrastructure. >> >> RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills yet another >> somewhat mutually exclusive niche. >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Gyan >> >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura >> wrote: >> >>> Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking >>> holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a >>> better name. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeff >>> On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote= : >>> >>> Hi Tony, >>> >>> The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it >>> really depends what is one's definition of TE. >>> >>> If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a >>> TE feature. >>> >>> However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to >>> make sure this is not oversold - that's all. >>> >>> Best, >>> R. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Robert, >>>> >>>> >>>> > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers ca= n >>>> be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). >>>> > >>>> > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost >>>> multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct tra= ffic >>>> based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops= etc >>>> ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the entire net= work >>>> and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. >>>> > >>>> > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >>>> >>>> >>>> It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations.= There=E2=80=99s >>>> no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. N= o, it=E2=80=99s not a >>>> drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a goo= d >>>> controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6. >>>> >>>> However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAl= go can=E2=80=99t be >>>> called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very broad topic. Every= thing >>>> that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple = SPF falls in the area >>>> of Traffic Engineering. Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall int= o >>>> that bucket. >>>> >>>> I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for = your >>>> application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffi= cient for some. >>>> Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2=80=99s not Tr= affic Engineering. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >> -- >> >> >> >> *Gyan Mishra* >> >> *Network Solutions A**rchitect * >> >> >> >> *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike >> *Silver >> Spring, MD >> >> >> -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > > > *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *M 301 502-134713101 Columbia Pike *Silver Spring, MD --000000000000b63a7705b59cf5fb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Hi Ron

IP Flex Algo provides one half of the puzzle control plane = framework, however just as Flex Algo built for SR is instantiated on SR dat= a plane, I remember you had mentioned an IPV6 data plane =E2=80=9Cnon SR=E2= =80=9D based framework possible a new RH would be used for the loose or str= ict path instantiation. =C2=A0

We were going to discuss that question I had on the original thread = on IP flex algo =C2=A0but we didn=E2=80=99t get to it.

For IP flex algorithm as this is the main ar= chitecture document for the technology feature should it reference the data= plane instantiation of the path.

I guess it could be done with a separate draft but I think as thi= s would serve the architecture framework I think maybe the perfect spot.

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 = at 12:28 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabu= sagsm@gmail.com> wrote:

+1 for IP flex algo for operators toolbox=C2= =A0

Thanks

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:54 PM Je= ff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
I=E2=80=99m very much in favor of being able to pro= vide a number of technologies that help operators with different requiremen= ts and constraints to provide their services in a most optimized way, hence= my support for flex-algo, either labeled or not as a technology on the dyn= amic spectrum of the solution space.
One can achieve similar results on= a single topology with a centralized controller, there are trade-offs in e= ither, extremities on either side are counterproductive .=C2=A0
<= br>
Regards,
Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, at 17:47, Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

=EF=BB=BF


In fact the concept of traffic engineering has been aro= und for a long time using simple IGP metric manipulation to steer traffic u= sing the IGP. =C2=A0

I h= ad designed in my past life a costing algorithm where you use highest bandw= idth links and lowest latency as the crow flies point A to point B such tha= t you take the highest bandwidth lowest latency path based on a formula for= path instantiation.=C2=A0 This is the essence of flex algo basically an en= gineered algorithm algo xyz for a sub routing instance instantiation. =C2= =A0

This concept works w= ell for global table or single routing instance, however if you have multip= le VPNs and you want to realize per VPN coloring capabilities it is much di= fferent then use of flex algo with a single IGP global table routing follow= ing a single algo or multiple sub set algo=E2=80=99s.

That=E2=80=99s where RSVP TE PCALC path compu= tation and bandwidth and link attributes came into play in an MPLS context.=

However, now trying to = expand traditional RSVP TE to provide per VRF VPN mapping and coloring is n= ow a daunting painful and non scalable solution.=C2=A0 Now requires with RS= VP static routes and VRF next hop rewrite to map each VPN to a different co= lor steered statically to a different loopback egress PE iBGP next hop then= the default iBGP global table next hop. =C2=A0

=
That=E2=80=99s where the advent of SR with SR-TE no= w fills that much needed gap of per VRF coloring to build the same as we ha= d in the RSVP world loose path prefix sid or strict path adjacency sid path= instantiation now done via centralized controller.
=
The gap where flex algo comes into play is uniq= ue but I think is a tool on the operator toolbox which prior to IP flex alg= o provided additional steering granularity and path instantiation control u= sed in conjunction with SR-TE.

The gap IP flex algo fills is internet providers global table routin= g being able to create logical traffic steering constructs where MPLS or SR= does not exist. =C2=A0

= So that is a huge much needed gap as not all operators on the public core h= ave MPLS or SR and would like an alternative.=C2=A0
=
This could be used in both core and data center= space as well IP based infrastructure.

RSVP TE and SR have their niche and now IP flex algo fills = yet another somewhat mutually exclusive niche.

<= /div>
Kind Regards=C2=A0

=
Gyan

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 8:18 PM Jeff Tantsura <= ;jefftant.ietf= @gmail.com> wrote:
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE.= Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have bee= n a better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Ras= zuk <robert@raszu= k.net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment=C2=A0I hit "Send" I knew that this response may b= e coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE.=C2=A0

If indeed IGP TE is anything=C2=A0more then SPF - then sure we can cal= l it a TE feature.=C2=A0

However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0really cool proposal, my po= int is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all.=C2=A0

Best,
R.


On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony L= i <tony1athom= e@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost m= ulti topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic b= ased on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc .= .. ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of the entire netw= ork and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. Ther= e=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balan= cing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it does not = supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.

However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo ca= n=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE is a very bro= ad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophistica= ted than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 Link co= loring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for your = application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not sufficient= for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that it=E2= =80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 Columbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


--
<= div dir=3D"ltr">


Gyan Mish= ra

Network So= lutions Archi= tect=C2=A0

M 301 502-1347
13101 C= olumbia Pike=C2=A0
Silver Spring, MD


=
--
--000000000000b63a7705b59cf5fb-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 22:56:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53ECF3A13C5 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 22:56:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kZR16s4DCI9E for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 22:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E80673A13C6 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 22:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 9FE2547E63; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 14:56:43 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Jeff Tantsura'" Cc: "'Tony Li'" , "'Robert Raszuk'" , "'lsr'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" References: <014401d6c9eb$65c64b00$3152e100$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 14:56:42 +0800 Message-ID: <016901d6ca0a$a0217800$e0646800$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016A_01D6CA4D.AE463EA0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIwqfaw0ZNJA4qz9e8ZEZ8X4RGIUQK6ahjTqRzq49A= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZS08dSRoeHhkdSENDVkpNS0xLTU5LS0hCT0xVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6PxA6Szo5PD8IPjgMTjQ9DCwa PxJPFEJVSlVKTUtMS01OS0tPT0pKVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUlMS09ONwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a762c89e73d9865kuuu9fe2547e63 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 06:56:56 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01D6CA4D.AE463EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jeff: =20 Maybe I should add one more sentence to follow your statement, then the = responses looks more consecutive: =20 Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE.----But = operator are expecting new TE solution that can meet the dynamic = environment, not the static resource allocation. -------Static TE = can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real world. If the LFA mechanism = can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, is it just another = static resource allocation and prefix assignment method? =20 Are the above statement true or acceptable? =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 =20 =20 From: Jeff Tantsura =20 Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 11:45 AM To: Aijun Wang Cc: Tony Li ; Robert Raszuk ; = lsr ; Acee Lindem (acee) = Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 =20 Hi Aijun, =20 How=E2=80=99s my response triggered yours? Where do you see my talking about static vs dynamic TE? It you are looking for a philosophical angle - perhaps we could talk = about centralized vs distributed TE and complexity of each one. =20 Regards, Jeff On Dec 3, 2020, at 19:13, Aijun Wang > wrote: =EF=BB=BF Hi, Jeff: =20 Static TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement of real world. If the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, = is it just another static resource allocation and prefix assignment = method? =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = > On Behalf Of Jeff = Tantsura Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 9:18 AM To: Tony Li >; = Robert Raszuk > Cc: lsr >; Acee Lindem (acee) = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 =20 Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking = holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a = better name. =20 Cheers,=20 Jeff On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk >, wrote: Hi Tony,=20 =20 The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as it = really depends what is one's definition of TE.=20 =20 If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call it a = TE feature.=20 =20 However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is to = make sure this is not oversold - that's all.=20 =20 Best, R. =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li > wrote: Hi Robert, > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can = be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost = multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct = traffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt = drops etc ... ), but again it is not taking into account load of the = entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic = distribution. > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic = load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, = it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., = etc=E2=80=A6. However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo = can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering. After all TE is a very = broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more = sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. = Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for = your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not = sufficient for some. Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that = it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering. Regards, Tony _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01D6CA4D.AE463EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_016A_01D6CA4D.AE463EA0-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 23:01:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C903A13D5 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:01:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLhvrib6aLge for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D3CB3A13D0 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:01:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 5028847FA2; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:01:17 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Alexander Okonnikov'" , "'Van De Velde, Gunter \(Nokia - BE/Antwerp\)'" Cc: , "'Peter Psenak \(ppsenak\)'" References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> <10D19997-F6CA-45A2-A5C3-C14C8FD41069@cisco.com> <00d801d6c795$4b7d3680$e277a380$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:01:17 +0800 Message-ID: <017301d6ca0b$434848b0$c9d8da10$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0174_01D6CA4E.516F5940" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJPZKx16EHlYEQ6dUFarTaMgdWqZQGxe/opAbfkCk8B44MDiwJMTvyjAc962aoBv+e1QgIO0I5NAVK5zVkBd5fVuwH+btMwqGVK8yA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZSUhPQhkeSk9ISUtCVkpNS0xLTU5JTExMSElVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Nyo6GQw5Cz8IPjgtGTQwDA4s Lk4aFBdVSlVKTUtMS01OSUxDSU9OVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUxKQkpNNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a762c8e14709865kuuu5028847fa2 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 07:01:30 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0174_01D6CA4E.516F5940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ketan: =20 Using the local ip address or IfIndex can solve the correlation with the = Link TLV in RFC3630, but it still does not resolve the ambiguity problem = that required by RFC4750(OSPF MIB) as Acee mentioned. Do we still follow this way? =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) =20 Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 5:35 PM To: Aijun Wang ; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' = ; 'Alexander Okonnikov' = ; 'Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - = BE/Antwerp)' Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) Subject: RE: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Hi Aijun, =20 Please check my previous response on this thread. =20 The matter is quite simple and easily addressed. =20 IMHO we do not need to invent a new protocol contraption or repurpose = your stub-link proposal for this situation. =20 Thanks, Ketan =20 From: Lsr > On = Behalf Of Aijun Wang Sent: 01 December 2020 09:22 To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' >; 'Alexander Okonnikov' = >; = 'Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)' = > Cc: lsr@ietf.org ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Hi,=20 =20 How about using the stub-link that we proposed and discussed at = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHGFfhg/ = to solve the scenario that described in RFC5185? The possible solution is the following: 1) The ABR form only the normal adjacency within the backbone area. 2) For other area(for example, area 1) that they belong, each of = them advertise the stub-link TLV, which include the network prefix that = other area(area 1) belongs to, and also the metric to such prefix. 3) The OSPF treat the prefixes within this stub-link TLV as the = intra-area prefix in other area(area 1) and will prefer to using them = over the inter-area prefix in the non-multi-area solution. 4) More areas can be configured on such ABRs, eliminate the = necessary to configure interface address within each area, also = eliminate the ambiguity for using the remote peer address to = differentiate the different adjacency. 5) It is also easy to correlate such link information with the TE = information that advertised in RFC3630. Are the above proposal acceptable? =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = > On Behalf Of Acee = Lindem (acee) Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:58 AM To: Alexander Okonnikov >; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - = BE/Antwerp) > Cc: lsr@ietf.org ; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Speaking on WG member: =20 Hi Alex,=20 I knew this was coming. In 2008, 99.9% of the requirements were handled = by supporting an interface in a primary area and one other area. Using = the remote IP address for the other area does handle this case. As I = stated previously, if you support OSPF adjacencies on secondary IP = addresses, the MIB and other complexities are all taken care of and that = would be the solution that I would recommend. However, if you guys want = to spend time trying to improve RFC5185, you are perfectly welcome to = submit a draft.=20 =20 Thanks, Acee =20 From: Alexander Okonnikov > Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:47 PM To: Gunter Van de Velde > Cc: Acee Lindem >, "Peter Psenak = (ppsenak)" >, = "lsr@ietf.org " > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Hi Acee, =20 RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for each = multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate = several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property = of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF = interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity = in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address = (one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again = obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address = (or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help here. =20 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, Van De Velde, = Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): =20 The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to select = remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the =E2=80=98Link = Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more complicated. I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is seen as the = =E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting local-ip-address. To me it = seems as a worse choice. =20 A question that was asked: How router will be able to match Link TLV = (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? =20 Answer: For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV using the = IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link (=3Deasy) For numbered: 1. we must first look if the there is a stub type 3 link 2. If stub type 3 exists, then the RFC3630 local ip address must = be used to identify the correspond link within the router TLV to the = neighbor 3. If the stub type 3 link did not exist in Router TLV link, then = the maybe the link is unnumbered, and we try to match upon = IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a match or no match 4. If there is no match, then maybe the link is MADJ and we must = use the RFC3630 remote IP address to match upon the Link Data 5. =3D over-complex. (If we used for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data = =3D local ip address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer directly) =20 In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and advertise = local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a remote-ip-address. I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB after = receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV if = multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create the = correct key? =20 Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address for RFC5185 = Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is adding OSPF = complexity without benefits. =20 Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use local-ip-address = instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link Data and avoid the = additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for numbered links? =20 Brgds, G/ =20 =20 From: Lsr > On = Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 18:01 To: Alexander Okonnikov >; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = > Cc: lsr@ietf.org =20 Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Hi Alex,=20 =20 Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support the OSPF MIB = as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing doesn=E2=80=99t include the = area. For example: =20 -- OSPF Interface Table =20 ospfIfTable OBJECT-TYPE SYNTAX SEQUENCE OF OspfIfEntry MAX-ACCESS not-accessible STATUS current DESCRIPTION "The OSPF Interface Table describes the interfaces from the viewpoint of OSPF. It augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific information." REFERENCE "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3 Router interface parameters" ::=3D { ospf 7 } =20 ospfIfEntry OBJECT-TYPE SYNTAX OspfIfEntry MAX-ACCESS not-accessible STATUS current DESCRIPTION "The OSPF interface entry describes one interface from the viewpoint of OSPF. =20 Information in this table is persistent and when this object is written the entity SHOULD save the change to non-volatile storage." INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf } ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 } =20 Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you could use a = separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary addresses. My = Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. =20 =20 Thanks, Acee =20 =20 From: Lsr > on = behalf of Alexander Okonnikov > Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 5:27 AM To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" > Cc: "lsr@ietf.org " > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links =20 Hi Peter, =20 30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, Peter Psenak = > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): =20 Hi Alex, On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: Hi Peter, Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered point-to-point = each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no ambiguity. Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to follow reasons: 1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was proposed that = multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be encoded in = Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own IP address = (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered); 2) From -06 to -08 multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but = if interface is numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than = local one) to be encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look = like unnumbered; 3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself there is no more = mentions that multi-area link to be treated as unnumbered. Rather, = another approach is used - if router's interface is numbered, then link = is also numbered; if router's interface is unnumbered, then link is = unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting corresponding type 3 link = is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also removed from section 3 in = RFC 5185. > Hence, in version -09 with removing unnumbered nature of multi-area = links Link Data for numbered links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP = address to own IP address, as it is specified in RFC 2328. From = perspective of other routers this link can be treated as numbered or = unnumbered, depending on configuration of neighbor's corresponding = interface. you are free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not = mandating to send IP address really. =20 The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to advertise the link as = numbered. This is straightforward when the link is numbered indeed. And = if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered interfaces, we would not = need RFC 5185 (section 1.2). =20 One question - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation = (in case it needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered = interface, it will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own = IP interface address. Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV (RFC 3630) = to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to calculate = RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router needs to = match IGP link to TE link. I don't believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a = multi-area adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference = rules that may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised = for TE purposes. =20 Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same time we need = ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of areas. And what = about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is meant in section = 3? =20 thanks, Peter =20 Thank you. =20 Thank you. 27 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak = > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): Alexander, On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: Hi WG, RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link Data = field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link = Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for = multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could = someone comment on this? Advertising a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in = case of parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but = that's how it was specified. So it's not a bug. thanks, Peter Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0174_01D6CA4E.516F5940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

H= i, Ketan:

<= o:p> 

U= sing the local ip address or IfIndex can solve the correlation with the = Link TLV in RFC3630, but it still does not resolve the ambiguity problem = that required by RFC4750(OSPF MIB) as Acee = mentioned.

D= o we still follow this way?

<= o:p> 

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom<= o:p>

<= o:p> 

From: Ketan Talaulikar = (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 3, = 2020 5:35 PM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; = 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; = 'Alexander Okonnikov' <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com>; 'Van De = Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)' = <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Peter = Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] = Link Data value for Multi-area links

 

Hi = Aijun,

 

Please check my = previous response on this thread.

 

The matter is quite = simple and easily addressed.

 

IMHO we do not need to = invent a new protocol contraption or repurpose your stub-link proposal = for this situation.

 

Thanks,

Ketan

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: 01 December 2020 = 09:22
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org>; 'Alexander Okonnikov' <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c= om>; 'Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)' <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c= om>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Subject= : Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area = links

 

H= i,

<= o:p> 

H= ow about using the stub-link that we proposed and discussed at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/LppwUNb_ngr8m4awaprvSHGF= fhg/ to solve the scenario that described in = RFC5185?

T= he possible solution is the following:

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1)     T= he ABR form only the normal adjacency within the backbone = area.

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2)     F= or other area(for example, area 1) that they belong, each of them = advertise the stub-link TLV, which include the network prefix that other = area(area 1) belongs to, and also the metric to such = prefix.

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3)     T= he OSPF treat the prefixes within this stub-link TLV as the intra-area = prefix in other area(area 1) and will prefer to using them over the = inter-area prefix in the non-multi-area = solution.

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4)     M= ore areas can be configured on such ABRs, eliminate the necessary to = configure interface address within each area, also eliminate the = ambiguity for using the remote peer address to differentiate the = different adjacency.

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5)     I= t is also easy to correlate such link information with the TE = information that advertised in RFC3630.

A= re the above proposal acceptable?

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom

<= o:p> 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, = 2020 1:58 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c= om>; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c= om>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) = <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Subject= : Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area = links

 

Speaking on WG member:

 

Hi Alex,

I knew this was coming. In 2008, 99.9% of the requirements = were handled by supporting an interface in a primary area and one other = area. Using the remote IP address for the other area does handle this = case. As I stated previously, if you support OSPF adjacencies on = secondary IP addresses, the MIB and other complexities are all taken = care of and that would be the solution that I would recommend. However, = if you guys want to spend time trying to improve RFC5185, you are = perfectly welcome to submit a draft.

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

From: = Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c= om>
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:47 = PM
To: Gunter Van de Velde <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c= om>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "Peter = Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: = [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area = links

 

Hi Acee,

 

RFC 5185 says that interface data structure is created for = each multi-area adjacency. I guess that we are not allowed to allocate = several ifIndex values for the same IP interface, because it is property = of router's interface, not OSPF interface. Hence, we have several OSPF = interfaces with the same ifIndex in unnumbered case and, thus, ambiguity = in Interface table. The same for numbered - we have IP interface address = (one), which is the same for multiple OSPF interfaces, and we again = obtain ambiguity. Per my understanding advertising neighbor's IP address = (or ifIndex) in Link Data doesn't help = here.

 

30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 20:20, = Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.c= om> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

=

 

The oddnes is that the architecture decision in RFC5185 to = select remote-ip-address instead of local-ip-address for the = =E2=80=98Link Data=E2=80=99 is making things much more = complicated.

I am surprised to see that using the remote-ip-address is = seen as the =E2=80=98better=E2=80=99 choice as selecting = local-ip-address. To me it seems as a worse = choice.

 

A question that was asked: How router will be able to match = Link TLV (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router = LSA?

 

Answer:

For unnumbered links we can match Link TLV with Router TLV = using the IfIndex when there is no stub type 3 link = (=3Deasy)

For numbered:

1.       = we must first look if = the there is a stub type 3 link

2.       = If stub type 3 exists, = then the RFC3630 local ip address must be used to identify the = correspond link within the router TLV to the = neighbor

3.       = If the stub type 3 = link did not exist in Router TLV link, then the maybe the link is = unnumbered, and we try to match upon IfIndex=E2=80=A6 This may give a = match or no match

4.       = If there is no match, = then maybe the link is MADJ and we must use the RFC3630 remote IP = address to match upon the Link Data

5.       = =3D over-complex. (If = we used  for RFC5185 =E2=80=98Link Data =3D local ip = address=E2=80=99 then (2) would given answer = directly)

 

In addition, for a router it is much simpler to learn and = advertise local-ip-address in Router LSAs then using a = remote-ip-address.

I also believe that if we want to search something in TEDB = after receiving a TE Link TLV. How can we identify from the TE Link TLV = if multi-area or not multi-area? If we can not, then how can we create = the correct key?

 

Looking at the above, the choice of using remote-ip-address = for RFC5185 Link Data seems not the best design that we can do, and is = adding OSPF complexity without = benefits.

 

Should this not be corrected in RFC5185 and simply use = local-ip-address instead of the remote-ip-address for Multi-area Link = Data and avoid the additional unnecessary complexity the current RFC for = numbered links?

 

Brgds,

G/

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem = (acee)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 = 18:01
To: Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c= om>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc:=  lsr@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value for = Multi-area links

 

Hi Alex, 

 

Multi-Area interface disambiguation is required to support = the OSPF MIB as specified in RFC 4750. The table indexing = doesn=E2=80=99t include the area. For = example:

 

--  OSPF Interface = Table

 

  ospfIfTable = OBJECT-TYPE

       = SYNTAX       SEQUENCE OF = OspfIfEntry

       MAX-ACCESS   = not-accessible

       = STATUS       = current

       = DESCRIPTION

          = "The OSPF Interface Table describes the = interfaces

          from = the viewpoint of OSPF.

          It = augments the ipAddrTable with OSPF specific = information."

       = REFERENCE

          = "OSPF Version 2, Appendix C.3  Router = interface

          = parameters"

       ::=3D { ospf 7 = }

 

  ospfIfEntry = OBJECT-TYPE

       = SYNTAX       = OspfIfEntry

       MAX-ACCESS   = not-accessible

       = STATUS       = current

       = DESCRIPTION

          = "The OSPF interface entry describes one = interface

          from = the viewpoint of OSPF.

 

          = Information in this table is persistent and when this = object

          is = written the entity SHOULD save the change to = non-volatile

          = storage."

       INDEX { ospfIfIpAddress, ospfAddressLessIf = }

       ::=3D { ospfIfTable 1 = }

 

Note that if you really want to support this optimally, you = could use a separate subnet pre-area and have adjacencies on secondary = addresses. My Redback/Ericsson implementation allowed for this. =   

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on = behalf of Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.c= om>
Date: Monday, November 30, 2020 = at 5:27 AM
To: "Peter Psenak = (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Link Data value = for Multi-area links

 

Hi Peter,

 

30 =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 12:56, = Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

=

 

Hi = Alex,

On 27/11/2020 13:49, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:

Hi = Peter,
Which kind of ambiguity is meant? In case of numbered = point-to-point each link has its own unique IP address, so there is no = ambiguity.
Per my understanding this problem has appeared due to = follow reasons:
1) In old versions of the draft (up to -05) it was = proposed that multi-area links are treated as unnumbered. ifIndex to be = encoded in Link Data field, irrespectively whether interface has its own = IP address (numbered) or borrow it (unnumbered);
2) From -06 to -08 = multi-area links are still treated as unnumbered, but if interface is = numbered, then IP address of the neighbor (rather than local one) to be = encoded into Link Data, in order to make the link look like = unnumbered;
3) In version -09 of the draft and in RFC 5185 itself = there is no more mentions that multi-area link to be treated as = unnumbered. Rather, another approach is used - if router's interface is = numbered, then link is also numbered; if router's interface is = unnumbered, then link is unnumbered. The rule that specifies omitting = corresponding type 3 link is added. Mention of 'unnumbered' link is also = removed from section 3 in RFC 5185. >
Hence, in version -09 with = removing unnumbered nature of multi-area links Link Data for numbered = links had to be changed from Neighbor's IP address to own IP address, as = it is specified in RFC 2328. From perspective of other routers this link = can be treated as numbered or unnumbered, depending on configuration of = neighbor's corresponding interface.


you are = free to advertise the link as unnumbered. RFC5185 is not mandating to = send IP address really.

 

The same valid for numbered ones. I.e. I'm free to = advertise the link as numbered. This is straightforward when the link is = numbered indeed. And if we would prefer to have deal with unnumbered = interfaces, we would not need RFC 5185 (section = 1.2).

 

One question = - how neighboring router will perform next-hop calculation (in case it = needs to do so)? If neighbor is configured with numbered interface, it = will treat Link Data as IP next hop, which will be its own IP interface = address.
Another question - how router will be able to match Link TLV = (RFC 3630) to corresponding Link in Router LSA? For example, we want to = calculate RSVP-TE LSP based on IGP metric (RFC 3785) and thus router = needs to match IGP link to TE link.


I don't = believe you are going to do any traffic engineering over a multi-area = adjacency. MADJ is there to address the OSPF route preference rules that = may lead to sub-optimal routing. MADJ link is not advertised for TE = purposes.

 

Why not? We need multi-area configuration and at the same = time we need ability to build intra-area RSVP-TE LSPs within each of = areas. And what about calculating IP next hop? Which compatibility is = meant in section 3?

 

thanks,
Pe= ter

 

Thank you.

 

Thank = you.

27 = =D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=8F=D0=B1. 2020 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 14:50, Peter Psenak = <ppsenak@cisco.com> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alexander,
=
On 26/11/2020 17:58, Alexander Okonnikov wrote:

Hi = WG,
RFC 5185 says that Neighbor's IP address to be encoded into Link = Data field. Per RFC 2328 router's own IP address to be encoded into Link = Data. What is the reason to advertise neighbor's IP address for = multi-area links and not local IP address? It seems like bug. Could = someone comment on this?


Advertisi= ng a neighbor address/ifindex helps to eliminate ambiguity in case of = parallel point-to-point adjacencies. It's not perfect, but that's how it = was specified. So it's not a bug.

thanks,
Peter

Thanks in = advance.
_______________________________________________
Lsr = mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/lsr

 

H= i, Jeff:

<= o:p> 

M= aybe I should add one more sentence to follow your statement, then the = responses looks more consecutive:

<= o:p> 

Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered = TE.----But operator are expecting new TE solution = that can meet the dynamic environment, not the static resource = allocation. -------Static TE can=E2=80=99t meet the requirement = of real world. If the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each = IP-FLEX algorithm, is it just another static resource allocation and = prefix assignment method?

 

Are the above statement true or = acceptable?

 

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom

<= o:p> 

 

<= o:p> 

From:<= /b> Jeff = Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, = December 4, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Aijun Wang = <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Cc: Tony Li = <tony1athome@gmail.com>; Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; = lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee Lindem (acee) = <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] = WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In = IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Hi Aijun,

 

How=E2=80=99s my response triggered = yours?

Where do you see my talking about static vs dynamic = TE?

It you are looking for a philosophical angle - perhaps we = could talk about centralized vs distributed TE and complexity of each = one.

 

Regards,

Jeff

=EF=BB=BF

H= i, Jeff:

&= nbsp;

S= tatic TE can=E2= =80=99t meet the requirement of real = world.

I= f the LFA mechanism can only be achieved within each IP-FLEX algorithm, = is it just another static resource allocation and prefix assignment = method?

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

B= est Regards

&= nbsp;

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom

&= nbsp;

From:<= /b> lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 = 9:18 AM
To: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>; = Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc:= lsr <lsr@ietf.org>; Acee = Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for = "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. = Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have = been a better name.

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, = wrote:


Hi Tony,

 

The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this = response may be coming as it really depends what is one's definition of = TE. 

 

If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure = we can call it a TE feature. 

 

However, while a very useful and really cool = proposal, my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that's = all. 

 

Best,
R.

 

 

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com> = wrote:


Hi Robert,


> However I really do not = think that what Flexible Algorithm offers can be compared or even called = as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
>
> Sure Flex Algo can = accomplish in a very elegant way with little cost multi topology routing = but this is not full TE. It can also direct traffic based on static or = dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... ),  but = again it is not taking into account load of the entire network and IMHO = has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution.
>
> = Just to make sure the message here is = proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely = true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. = There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load balancing. No, = it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for = RSVP. No, it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., = etc=E2=80=A6.

However I = don=E2=80=99t feel that = it=E2=80=99s fair to say that FlexAlgo = can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic = Engineering.  After all TE is a very broad topic. Everything that = we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more sophisticated than simple SPF falls in the area of = Traffic Engineering.  Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall = into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant = you that it may not have the right TE features for your application, but = that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that = it=E2=80=99s not sufficient for some.  = Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying = that it=E2=80=99s not Traffic = Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


_______________________________________________
Lsr = mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/lsr

------=_NextPart_000_0174_01D6CA4E.516F5940-- From nobody Thu Dec 3 23:36:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4069C3A13FA for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:36:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id buYRcbRa4l33 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:36:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C83383A13F8 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 2020 23:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id y10so5487704ljc.7 for ; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 23:36:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=s3Qpu8hDQSatRHrfz8CbfaE/urRX6yLp0ZqfEPWd4m8=; b=UirwdlIqKfzazJrpLudKOI8OJujiA9g3DOMELBEh6YFnRnZYza7Ly3DfLJU+YucS0X x/LMyEPGA5PudsymurA8JhQSyhvplIYa1EiBeulZfzJVwYq78v3ymsXi/DrBZGMF4/h+ eTlLJXoFDWwxNqS3OljCfubDbvT42jJWSzwNJdasni2/Bxx3/P3JiPhUJBZsnCqlKLXg 0BfvbthQYOAKh0/TNZKAAtks85yJ7mrB37vgDWpUXBrExyN9hoRQYvbWvTaJLZOIDUdw ucRBPlfMlNA7VM7lJSFjhs3m8PvpHSq3zp42N6wIF/kh2jWD+2+7b4hLYSK5vXS3ijvc Jm3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=s3Qpu8hDQSatRHrfz8CbfaE/urRX6yLp0ZqfEPWd4m8=; b=CJ8/dIGFFP3UXNQdcl+V26pjYNNlrQG7CuV3hovOAOrCJ0rh97v7bTstT3udASsgZg gx0eM+nFIaozISyaexLEWVgH25GfJnX+0wYcFhOJ4Wz1HjmaOvhoiPNcPTHD6BVX9kNS rxz0VVsUy/5gJB/dGDAjPTalKTd7xwq5EJFwu6zuhcMA0VM3p0bK7YcZ6qPBPXXkBRfh h08mf7VaSz1sI01ksqFHGMNddU4TRo/8xk/8MBjTSS1K83AR92gQg26V9eNwUZ8yz6P1 4eH3mjHLvgmCeIJ/Iy2xenrnS2YNNGvmYl82TktMHF9ogBJyzjorl18LoJfAAgWKAQUG yzuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532jpHw2JntFLpHbjvOEXnIBMs2S5IPORTnvxy4KjF0qgs+Pu6ve 0qrUjw3M4138/EgOcGLfhVu4B8bEdu/fayPnBFAN6+4bztQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzIofB/wSlOZNg2Om0b494wT6eE+jR12so3SJArIK1A2PtmK0452HH79UV7ugfKyCP2PRATubwn2+m+IJU0j+E= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:1606:: with SMTP id w6mr3009202ljd.57.1607067408538; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 23:36:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <014401d6c9eb$65c64b00$3152e100$@tsinghua.org.cn> <016901d6ca0a$a0217800$e0646800$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: <016901d6ca0a$a0217800$e0646800$@tsinghua.org.cn> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 08:36:38 +0100 Message-ID: To: lsr , Tony Li Cc: Jeff Tantsura , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Aijun Wang , Gyan Mishra Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004342e05b59e8a83" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Flexible Algorithm - TE or not TE X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 07:36:52 -0000 --00000000000004342e05b59e8a83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Adjusting subject to reflect topic. Wow .. I did not think this will start such a debate :) To me this is actually very simple. Flex Algo is still IMO an SPF with additional two new factors: * You have ability to exclude links or nodes from your computation * You run traditional SPF based on any metric (static or dynamic) you can imagine Did I miss something? Yes the above will allow you to steer traffic other then based on the IGP metric, but as you all recall when we started to deploy MPLS-TE Cariden was claiming that they can accomplish TE without MPLS too by properly adjusting IGP metrics while observing traffic demands. Cheers, Robert --00000000000004342e05b59e8a83 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Adjusting subject = to reflect topic.=C2=A0

Wow .. I did not think thi= s will start such a debate :)

To me this is actual= ly very simple. Flex Algo is still IMO an SPF with additional two new facto= rs:

* You have ability to exclude links or nodes f= rom your computation=C2=A0
* You run traditional SPF based on any= metric (static or dynamic) you can imagine

Did I = miss something?

Yes the above will allow you to st= eer traffic other then based on the IGP metric, but as you all recall when = we started to deploy MPLS-TE Cariden was claiming that they can accomplish= =C2=A0TE without MPLS too by properly adjusting IGP metrics while observing= traffic demands.=C2=A0

Cheers,
Robert=C2=A0

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aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 04 Dec 2020 09:18:15 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B49IEJ4010932; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 09:18:14 GMT To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , Jeff Tantsura , Tony Li , Robert Raszuk Cc: lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 10:18:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 09:18:22 -0000 Zhenqiang, On 04/12/2020 05:26, li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com wrote: > Hello All, > > I've read the draft and support its adoption. I have some comments as > follows. > > 1. I agree with Jeff that Flex Algo represents a sub- topology > consisting of the participating nodes, which we can also call a virtual > network. In this specific virtual network that the corresponding flex > algo calculation is applied. > > 2. For section three, why do we need one loopback address for > one Flex-Algorithm? that's how you represent an algo specific path. Can't we associate multiple Flex-Algorithms with one > loopback address, which means we want to reach the loopback address > through different paths? no. You need some data-plane separation. In SR it's a SID, here, given it's IP based, you need a separate IP prefix. > > 3. The second paragraph in section 3 does not describe Egress Node > Procedures. This paragraph should be put in a seperate section. > > 4. I want to know the path for a specific IP Flex-Algorithm is > calculated distributedly by each nodes paticipating this Flex-Algorithm > or calculated centralized by an controller? it's a distributed calculation. I wonder we can guarantee > the loop free  path with IP Flex-Algorithm especially when the path is > calculated distributedly? we MUST guarantee the consistency and it's done via FAD. Please look at the original FA draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo/ thanks, Peter > > Best Regards, > Zhenqiang Li > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > > *From:* Jeff Tantsura > *Date:* 2020-12-04 09:18 > *To:* Tony Li ; Robert Raszuk > > *CC:* lsr ; Acee Lindem \(acee\) > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking > holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been > a better name. > > Cheers, > Jeff > On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote: >> Hi Tony, >> >> The moment I hit "Send" I knew that this response may be coming as >> it really depends what is one's definition of TE. >> >> If indeed IGP TE is anything more then SPF - then sure we can call >> it a TE feature. >> >> However, while a very useful and really cool proposal, my point is >> to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. >> >> Best, >> R. >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li > > wrote: >> >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> >> > However I really do not think that what Flexible Algorithm >> offers can be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering >> (MPLS or SR). >> > >> > Sure Flex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with >> little cost multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It >> can also direct traffic based on static or dynamic network >> preferences (link colors, rtt drops etc ... ),  but again it >> is not taking into account load of the entire network and IMHO >> has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distribution. >> > >> > Just to make sure the message here is proper. >> >> >> It’s absolutely true that FlexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. >> There’s no bandwidth reservation. There’s no dynamic load >> balancing. No, it’s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it >> does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc…. >> >> However I don’t feel that it’s fair to say that FlexAlgo can’t >> be called Traffic Engineering.  After all TE is a very broad >> topic. Everything that we’ve done that’s more sophisticated >> than simple SPF falls in the area of Traffic Engineering. >> Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. >> >> I’ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for >> your application, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not >> sufficient for some.  Please don’t mislead people by saying >> that it’s not Traffic Engineering. >> >> Regards, >> Tony >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Fri Dec 4 04:23:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F973A0C1D for ; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 04:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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15.20.3632.021; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 12:35:08 +0000 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "Aijun Wang" , "'Alexander Okonnikov'" , "'Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)'" CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Link Data value for Multi-area links Thread-Index: AQHWxBVvmcttObV0lkektoHkq/Bmaqnb3tuAgAAQagCABIaugIAACIGAgAAaOoCAAFl0gIAAB1SA//+vM4CAAPnBgIADhIaAgAFnaoCAABYkgP//808A Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 12:35:08 +0000 Message-ID: <2E51F6FE-2E9C-4CB4-BA06-7642CD5C71E4@cisco.com> References: <61201EB5-3F36-401A-9D39-FB0C577C7966@gmail.com> <3d3d863b-3e1f-ea87-0c45-09e119aa7c8f@cisco.com> <3FE4F6F8-6819-425E-852F-6B5B968ECAF5@gmail.com> <57b88873-b0e9-c2d3-2732-7f2629eebf27@cisco.com> <5D89BE28-934A-4EE3-915A-456AAD7AC59C@gmail.com> <10D19997-F6CA-45A2-A5C3-C14C8FD41069@cisco.com> <00d801d6c795$4b7d3680$e277a380$@tsinghua.org.cn> <017301d6ca0b$434848b0$c9d8da10$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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[67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k17sm2633859pji.50.2020.12.04.07.49.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Dec 2020 07:49:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: Tony Li Message-Id: <7F49B1B0-959C-45C0-AB07-AD68712C67DD@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_16475182-F5EC-4202-886A-28A78C14B26D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 07:49:05 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , Jeff Tantsura , Robert Raszuk , lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Peter Psenak References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:49:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_16475182-F5EC-4202-886A-28A78C14B26D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Can't we associate multiple Flex-Algorithms with one >> loopback address, which means we want to reach the loopback address = through different paths? Pragmatically, this is not a big deal. Most implementations allow many = loopback interfaces, so this just costs a single /32 or /128. Tony --Apple-Mail=_16475182-F5EC-4202-886A-28A78C14B26D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Can't we associate multiple Flex-Algorithms with = one
loopback address, which means we want to reach the loopback = address through different = paths?


Pragmatically, this is = not a big deal. Most implementations allow many loopback interfaces, so = this just costs a single /32 or /128.

Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_16475182-F5EC-4202-886A-28A78C14B26D-- From nobody Sun Dec 6 18:49:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8483A0E7F; Sun, 6 Dec 2020 18:49:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Richardson via Datatracker To: Cc: draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160730939072.4448.14205081033305726081@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Michael Richardson Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2020 18:49:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 02:49:51 -0000 Reviewer: Michael Richardson Review result: Ready This document is a short YANG module relating to RFC8500, and expertise in that RFC are required to be sure if all the right control bits are required. It has reasonable security consideration, although the words, "The lowest NETCONF layer is the secure transport layer" seems a bit awkward. I would instead write, "All [NETCONF] transactions run over a secure transport layer, which is SSH"... From nobody Mon Dec 7 02:22:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E743A12BC for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 02:22:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKsKKkQkfP9O for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 02:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD7543A12BA for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 02:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id g185so13135258wmf.3 for ; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 02:22:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=1jDDcsHtesUL95B5NYBmL2p3ZcSACzQEzQQro+IG7JE=; b=VFZ2kiGllFuhKu04anHzzc3eetKJtbxIdgYkqN2dHC7J+pvfDQueYMVCAsVoRTlt+Q XVaRIEVgAYpOTkjIFmPy6zL5TTcGZXyHgRHgTNRMHQWAPhiYyeAHCfd3SoQ+fJycO+09 JBHwFH/lCJhc9DsAr+8dZ4395muWU6sdlfynbTFW0PODDOpiWv5kxJL80euRnZKBR0uv 7YWcfVeB8UaC9JY1tY4Mb43r0Q71eJIhDtUbFOHTmUha6vvNM5/9F+Nf4CQ0Sh6ichzc E3uzjiWmp+o6FTQjhDYKKCxTY0KQ7dhtCKXEvlpS63oas3aIZVanJDBRY2JhIXIoKor4 bnKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=1jDDcsHtesUL95B5NYBmL2p3ZcSACzQEzQQro+IG7JE=; b=bALv36PS2WfCGbl59azx9EvEZ+21P74DBOcwBjrMg53L8envbLdJz9o+fBpILqINfD XRbvcY57YXLrdNgQ3F2+PbDrE2GjrK2Grj9Mn3I7VVgJjwA7oi3zaC73rVnvcSRsSbUU 7RmnQl30Ur/OqbWlwhDawLiOyzFBfXnYJBo+fJCM3E0Y1fyrJjduB2zyLZTDdUPGx4Qu ab21SwipvBW7kEANoOSDA9jcwk9nytSIQb3uegcxvYNFkjcLmRtz7HkEilwqHeNE6J7a 1tdHGD0cbug+6oc9JkiThPkfI16RBdGQrOoU5zpP1lqsepx4vJhUTTThYGNdaGcs+UAA hDLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532RWZZIvbZWmBLMK2GpP5pB6AWQYyZJ+4fpmUKA1OaI25K54IFZ mJNYMSZ6Kz3DTp8jVZ/+Fg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzYx5I+RWFArbSg+FiHKCCt2ljz58ZRE4QKjsh4ESkPbThIOUWjGxYqm18EWu/7Bq07SD46vw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1bcd:: with SMTP id b196mr17511602wmb.70.1607336570283; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 02:22:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from SLITKOWS3YYU6 ([173.38.220.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k7sm782525wrn.63.2020.12.07.02.22.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Dec 2020 02:22:49 -0800 (PST) From: To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'lsr'" References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:22:48 +0100 Message-ID: <001201d6cc82$e9c5fdd0$bd51f970$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01D6CC8B.4B8ADB00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH8VnFOXLr2+nfgZyr1vMlff0Wn2KmgWNIw Content-Language: fr Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 10:22:54 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01D6CC8B.4B8ADB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 I support the WG adoption. This is a useful work. =20 Stephane =20 =20 From: Lsr On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: mardi 1 d=C3=A9cembre 2020 22:13 To: lsr Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms = (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 =20 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use = cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support = for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please = indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to = 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome. Thanks, Acee =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01D6CC8B.4B8ADB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

I support the WG = adoption. This is a useful work.

 

Stephane=

 

 

From: Lsr = <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem = (acee)
Sent: mardi 1 d=C3=A9cembre 2020 22:13
To: = lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for = "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - = draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

This IP Flex Algorithm draft = generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases and deployment prior to = IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adoption. This begins a = two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to = WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December = 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly = welcome.

Thanks,

Acee

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01D6CC8B.4B8ADB00-- From nobody Mon Dec 7 09:37:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5263A161F for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:37:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tVMY5EJlvKwv for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com (mail-pg1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 289303A1609 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id e2so1158872pgi.5 for ; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 09:37:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=mWF/l4sJs28cEPinKUQn6yfhtc1GQmeN3+x5x/RQA0s=; b=c+bN/aoc6NOrUYhyDqxHqxrUKWC15mmRmhwAOn/1/g2wpUd5Jjj+ViWyI9sbRcQPnU pTtD+ADODkL+Tme3VIQMH13/hEif1RIhj3FMdFbTHBznP7KJ39ZCZiZumUR6AF4wFYvf sM/hcqEZBhpJETYPHKLBYfEoO33NFyzb+d5oO1Aumi9VoCFIApcEL7/XJ5c4o2zL+osk WhWiwnxCgvc8FHYG0QlRusUuSiexfYLFvWlwEROUbE/xlWdYven4ReRDLvO9MQo+1Y4O 2LUKlh+LPte16UG4XVuQb3rLxI5qs+wme4xK9PbeFaTYfGiQnb2T4EZwV0SapnIMR6Pw /ivw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=mWF/l4sJs28cEPinKUQn6yfhtc1GQmeN3+x5x/RQA0s=; b=ZLVXA2LOoPVVjw8pfa9ArPhPNHLoVZrdK5JtKQoTtZu4Ce/+nNa9BkxjvoG2SsO6xg XPvHFPiY6Adm3i+WtqBkPdKdgGupXGmIY6bn+64e2Z09njHJbVtPht7ZTBB0KnXWIs9E jRdA75G72/toFoQ5qrM0P2puvODGfvl9pMt0uwT7FZkKBJk1jWdgTR4OH0dJk6qq7Z8O fp5SnDfu36QOSf+FBl1lCzwF9fodtGJ62n8tYPb3m5X2b6DhjzKuYTLWdmQCfVlCz8zH 7MFKqPfpVKTyeyrpoovE7FQ4iPsnZ9O5jTzK1h6mFL85vLwoIIfgbCxKxmc6g6WdD8ja qPMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531v9Pxs7pmrJ6qwZDuHDcD1wQEVycX5QiIO+cXrS7LpFY2YNTCv /Q+83JmMu8xNh5lk+200ErY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGGiNxw26Vuhu81+vAy6XDxjY4B2TDSnOqrNL57TLb8S8zi9FsL6fnro0sWUd9M2a4P+MyUA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:2d1:0:b029:19d:d060:2444 with SMTP id 200-20020a6202d10000b029019dd0602444mr11379497pfc.10.1607362661671; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 09:37:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (c-73-63-232-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.63.232.212]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a17sm3924836pgw.80.2020.12.07.09.37.39 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Dec 2020 09:37:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 09:37:33 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "=?utf-8?Q?li=5Fzhenqiang=40hotmail.com?=" Cc: lsr , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Tony Li , Robert Raszuk Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <5ec998de-115b-4a0a-818d-5df893082d49@Spark> X-Readdle-Message-ID: d6bb8e70-d9ed-4284-b135-6038ee0a511e@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5fce6862_374a3fe6_14ed6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 17:37:44 -0000 --5fce6862_374a3fe6_14ed6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Zhenqiang, please see inline Cheers, Jeff 4. I want to know the path for a specific IP=C2=A0=46lex-Algorithm is cal= culated distributedly by each nodes paticipating this=C2=A0=46lex-Algorit= hm or=C2=A0calculated centralized by an controller=3F I wonder we can=C2=A0= guarantee=C2=A0the loop free =C2=A0path with IP=C2=A0=46lex-Algorithm esp= ecially when the path is calculated distributedly=3F The valid topology must consist of a set of connected routers sharing a c= ommon Calc-Type, then loop-free calculation is done accordingly Best Regards, Zhenqiang Li li=5Fzhenqiang=40hotmail.com =46rom:=C2=A0Jeff Tantsura Date:=C2=A02020-12-04=C2=A009:18 To:=C2=A0Tony Li; Robert Raszuk CC:=C2=A0lsr; Acee Lindem =5C(acee=5C) Subject:=C2=A0Re: =5BLsr=5D WG Adoption Call for =22IGP =46lexible Algori= thms (=46lex-Algorithm) In IP Networks=22 - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-= 01 Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is considered TE. Looking holisti= cally - topology virtualization (or similar) could have been a better nam= e. Cheers, Jeff On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robert Raszuk , wrote= : Hi Tony, The moment=C2=A0I hit =22Send=22 I knew that this response may be coming = as it really depends what is one's definition of TE. If indeed IGP TE is anything=C2=A0more then SP=46 - then sure we can call= it a TE feature. However, while a very=C2=A0useful and=C2=A0really cool proposal, my point= is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all. Best, R. > On =46ri, Dec 4, 2020 at 1:13 AM Tony Li wrot= e: > > > > Hi Robert, > > > > > > > However I really do not think that what =46lexible Algorithm offers= can be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR). > > > > > > Sure =46lex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little c= ost multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct tr= affic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt dr= ops etc ... ),=C2=A0 but again it is not taking into account load of the = entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distrib= ution. > > > > > > Just to make sure the message here is proper. > > > > > > It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that =46lexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitatio= ns. There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic = load balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, = it does not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6= . > > > > However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that =46le= xAlgo can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.=C2=A0 After all TE is = a very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s mor= e sophisticated than simple SP=46 falls in the area of Traffic Engineerin= g.=C2=A0 Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket. > > > > I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for= your application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not su= fficient for some.=C2=A0 Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying th= at it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering. > > > > Regards, > > Tony > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F Lsr mailing list Lsr=40ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --5fce6862_374a3fe6_14ed6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Zhenqiang,

please see inline&=23160;

Cheers,
Jeff


4. I want to know the path for a specific IP&=23160;=46= lex-Algorithm is calculated distributedly by each nodes paticipating this= &=23160;=46lex-Algorithm or&=23160;calculated centralized by an controller=3F I wonder we can&=23160;<= /span>guarantee&=23160;the loop free= &=23160;path with IP&=23160;=46lex-Algorithm espec= ially when the path is calculated distributedly=3F&=23160;

The valid topology must consist of a set of connect= ed routers sharing a common Calc-Type, then loop-free calculation is done= accordingly&=23160;


Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
li=5Fzhenqiang=40hotmail.com
&=23160;
=46rom:&=23160;Jeff Tantsura
Date:&=23160;2020-12-04&=23160;09:18
To:&=23160;Ton= y Li; Robert Raszuk
Subject:&=23160;Re: =5BLsr=5D WG Adoption Call for =22IGP =46= lexible Algorithms (=46lex-Algorithm) In IP Networks=22 - draft-bonica-ls= r-ip-flexalgo-01
Anything else than IGP metric based SPT is consider= ed TE. Looking holistically - topology virtualization (or similar) could = have been a better name.

Cheers,
Jeff
On Dec 3, 2020, 4:25 PM -0800, Robe= rt Raszuk <robert=40raszuk.net>, wrote:
Hi Tony,

The moment&=23160;I hit =22Send=22 I knew that this response may be = coming as it really depends what is one's definition of TE.&=23160;
=

If indeed IGP TE is anything&=23160;more then SP=46 - then sure we c= an call it a TE feature.&=23160;

However, while a very&=23160;useful and&=23160;really cool proposal,= my point is to make sure this is not oversold - that's all.&=23160;

Best,
R.


On =46ri, Dec 4, 2020 at = 1:13 AM Tony Li <tony1a= thome=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Robert,


> However I really do not think that what =46lexible Algorithm offers = can be compared or even called as Traffic Engineering (MPLS or SR).
= >
> Sure =46lex Algo can accomplish in a very elegant way with little co= st multi topology routing but this is not full TE. It can also direct tra= ffic based on static or dynamic network preferences (link colors, rtt dro= ps etc ... ),&=23160; but again it is not taking into account load of the= entire network and IMHO has no way of accomplish TE level traffic distri= bution.
>
> Just to make sure the message here is proper.


It=E2=80=99s absolutely true that =46lexAlgo (IP or SR) has limitations. = There=E2=80=99s no bandwidth reservation. There=E2=80=99s no dynamic load= balancing. No, it=E2=80=99s not a drop in replacement for RSVP. No, it d= oes not supplant SR-TE and a good controller. Etc., etc., etc=E2=80=A6.
However I don=E2=80=99t feel that it=E2=80=99s fair to say that =46lexAlg= o can=E2=80=99t be called Traffic Engineering.&=23160; After all TE is a = very broad topic. Everything that we=E2=80=99ve done that=E2=80=99s more = sophisticated than simple SP=46 falls in the area of Traffic Engineering.= &=23160; Link coloring and SRLG alone clearly fall into that bucket.

I=E2=80=99ll grant you that it may not have the right TE features for you= r application, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean that it=E2=80=99s not suffic= ient for some.&=23160; Please don=E2=80=99t mislead people by saying that= it=E2=80=99s not Traffic Engineering.

Regards,
Tony


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Lsr mailing list
Lsr=40ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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GMT To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:45:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: bgl-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 10:45:13 -0000 Jimmy, On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi authors, > > Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail list > and the IETF meeting. > > The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm > participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 > Flex-Algo participation. the draft clearly says: "The IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP Algorithm Sub-TLV is topology independent." > If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo > 128, and some of these nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to > ensure that the path computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes > which only participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128? there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 Flex-Algo 128". There is only algo 128. You are mixing data plane support with algo participation. If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports specific data plane, you would need to define a specific algo for it. thanks, Peter > > Best regards, > > Jie > > *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM > *To:* lsr > *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use > cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support > for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please > indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to > 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are > certainly welcome. > > Thanks, > > Acee > From nobody Wed Dec 9 02:46:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A09C3A1D81 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 02:46:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=zVt5bvze; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=fb7p5T4+ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vO7tOi5-4n5w for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IP Algorithm SUBTLV indicate the participation for particular flex algo by = node. Participation doesn't depend on whether it support ipv4 prefix or ip= v6 prefix. Node which doesn't support particular family will not install t= hat family route. Regards Parag Juniper Business Use Only From: Lsr On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy) Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 3:40 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi authors, Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail list and = the IETF meeting. The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm particip= ation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 Flex-Algo part= icipation. If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of the= se nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path com= puted for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only participate in I= Pv4 Flex-Algo 128? Best regards, Jie From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM To: lsr > Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorith= m) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cas= es and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG = adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your sup= port or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on Dece= mber 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. Thanks, Acee --_000_BYAPR05MB4198A5407DDBF476D68EBBFCDFCC0BYAPR05MB4198namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IP Algorithm SUBTLV= indicate the participation for particular flex algo by node.  Partici= pation doesn’t depend on whether it support ipv4 prefix or ipv6 prefi= x.  Node which doesn’t support particular family will not install that family route.

 

Regards<= /span>

Parag

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From:= Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 3:40 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; ls= r <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithm= s (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[External Email. Be cautious of content= ]

 

Hi authors,

 

Here is one comment following the previous discussion= on the mail list and the IETF meeting.

 

The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP F= lex-Algorithm participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 = or IPv6 Flex-Algo participation. If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these nodes part= icipate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path computed for IPv= 6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo= 128?

 

Best regards,

Jie

 

From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (F= lex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01<= /o:p>

&nbs= p;

This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on= use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support= for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG ado= ption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020.= Also, review comments are certainly welcome.

Thanks,

Acee

 

 

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Thread-Topic: WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanuoUDw Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: <88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.201.204] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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AOAM530kgts03WLcSg6TsZDeWfucJ905r3v9LkxEH3Y6GejY5gOPvQPZ iZek7kwshtifkrLu5tBIqhfUtsypz/ihoD3cYzoWDSsD5D38VQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9bZXosQrl9SGERIdOBTRx8Me1bxxZtpomyOruRWNL9fxryMuvKAmZGF29Pwc++X81lDrgM0caBdi8TlLqAL4= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4452:: with SMTP id r79mr2105903qka.153.1607511457280; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 02:57:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tulasi Rami Reddy N Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 16:27:26 +0530 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000062372705b605ed77" Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 10:57:39 -0000 --00000000000062372705b605ed77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi , OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when 1. Common IP subnet 2.matching network mask. >From the Thanks, TUlasi. --00000000000062372705b605ed77 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi ,

OSPFv2 adjacency will b= e formed on a numbered LAN only when
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP subnet
= 2.matching network mask.
From the

<= div>Thanks,
TUlasi.
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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 76759034-4cb5-47e5-65d3-08d89c31f73e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Dec 2020 11:02:48.7570 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: xCnIUNXIjkpOkUfMNKftbXDDhdCGFbIfgpPtl3/8Uj/DzQL0M75ZVG47Suhrxpwu7cd5QkBWIoF7+OUGFbb7Xg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB5814 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" - draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:02:53 -0000 From: Lsr on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee) =0A= Sent: 30 November 2020 18:14=0A= =0A= =0A= Two thoughts=0A= isis-rmetric is a bit long as a prefix - I note that the examples use rm wh= ich is a bit short. Perhaps isis-rm=0A= =0A= te-metric contains the value if the sub-tlv is present. What if it is not = present? Is there any way to tell if it is present or not?=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= As stated as the IETF 109 LSR WG meeting, we feel the IS-IS reverse metric = augmentation is ready for publication. This begins a two week last call for= the subject draft. Please indicate your support or objection on this list = prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 15th, 2020. Also, review comments are cer= tainly welcome.=0A= Thanks,=0A= Acee=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed Dec 9 03:11:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEDD3A11FD for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:11:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8KMYlPMnOMTA for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 133B53A11FC for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com with SMTP id j13so352976qvi.8 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 03:11:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=iMscvhGmQXjdk4XaV8gVRrIAfAxfK9zSPcBngP1I7J0=; b=PMMlpC4nUENz4RBODdf5uolARYOw5c0Xxo62IKSPVSRuJ+6yXrdDR4ecft9TNVMuzK nvrJgg11UQAZ1AJNhemjaExZKNrKm2IgHR87of+we3mt3NL3QBH/ypY5NITFH0ye35zd itc5y+x9tIrT+DdtjHIDDJ+qznWx74/Bvsfj5oWlVfWLL8UP8DiSBn8c8dYPcf2WTIf+ 41XmZY9yDW2c1YsQLlDNCN/8xl0DMDix5/RrzIKUQ72Fa16NWFDQjHf8v/mD8WdPbwqQ YYNSEnEXMuXxu5yxVfUN5pyEsqHV03PK5jHwAumCfPYEOc+k9L5NNmzyt+KlFxxRmn10 kiXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=iMscvhGmQXjdk4XaV8gVRrIAfAxfK9zSPcBngP1I7J0=; b=nZFW6AN7W+3khT30/kS9/Ccf5NP4mi+fS1WyQQXYJsjdxRrPIC9sDXBQHmnzzjbWy+ skpbgyvq0Vdh6yFVnRMP1amSCaL6jYK37pGDWGCNA2X2AIJF5pPq4kg2OM4biepEHmaH 439cz+bb0bq3PP2GBcx95RZh7RvbCVS05k/IlNxc45n5QQIORB7KB/vyXXA6ABj/sxyK ME1/l2sgpzCAsxVwF+e5QQTXghd8j4ABA7WtyiaQDIjFBxK/2blubxqW+z4jtD8X8I8d zr25+yE0dbNxed6M3WL9XeZn3xUQATCH3vyl/HsJRkPyAe7rVYWDEKA24gyiAq0o8L1E wNRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Wu4QLIf0Poy1lyX3fp17uk3Sr7GzWbWRbHNDAVHERtM6GMZL3 ZjZBhHE2rfGwhNXlfSNu+9zKhIS9XhQSNgXmmMwOiksn0diAfA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsDmrv5qRMgipDGG0KVdvwqtkGmtwdyL5RkFxJhKO454JU+0YJ67mP/ulAMCbqPbBhbY2wcvDIms+k7VetmPU= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4952:: with SMTP id o18mr2184931qvy.27.1607512286862; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 03:11:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tulasi Rami Reddy N Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 16:41:15 +0530 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4a05805b6061e09" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:11:30 -0000 --000000000000d4a05805b6061e09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" [ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated] Hi , OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both conditions are met: 1. Common IP subnet 2. Matching network mask. >From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined. ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE SYNTAX INTEGER { *netMaskMismatch (7),* } I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). Let's take below example: RTA (11.1.1.2/24) -------- (10.1.1.1/24) RTB Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is the error type to be set? Should this be considered as generic input processing error and only generate *ospfIfRxBadPacket * notification or *netMaskMismatch *notification? Should we need a new type here? " The generic input processing of OSPF packets will have checked the validity of the IP header and the OSPF packet header." Thanks, Tulasi. On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N wrote: > Hi , > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when > 1. Common IP subnet > 2.matching network mask. > From the > > Thanks, > TUlasi. > --000000000000d4a05805b6061e09 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --00000000000063536305b6085ac2-- From nobody Wed Dec 9 07:22:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68D373A0DFB for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 07:22:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.676 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.676 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DnHv2n6Il5Xw for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55CC23A168D for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id y19so4259552lfa.13 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 09:56:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v+ESjWxXC8xWTiITkCZ2+Ghd+W7lW2Z21Nv5MR3cl+I=; b=QLHdRvGLpqKWn6lAAOF3yRSCnwwEzIkQB70nLSv+ZArFKysui3nsmnuOh9/059foo1 SPvGxqFRP0eEMbFYbkkPB1bpIwyHo9ld3skZdSWIsCnPy0GgR6ggfSwAPLQLG/f6rejY 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ABdhPJxVVI+9O8Su8aXRSuN5aR8RgWgMyKYf2gC6sUmaPgQkUF+mYTn0XJNlW/oXOMgx80ClgyZwXcUoWUPnpVDdpvg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:318f:: with SMTP id i15mr1470693lfe.385.1607536600330; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 09:56:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44447C51-58FA-4756-92A0-BD0DBC26E44D@cisco.com> <0F281788-1B38-48FF-B8C0-0348DA388571@cisco.com> <2958A5A6-5213-4B5E-B893-F9B874240F3B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2958A5A6-5213-4B5E-B893-F9B874240F3B@cisco.com> From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 23:26:28 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , Tulasi Rami Reddy N Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000006b4a205b60bc864" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 17:56:45 -0000 --00000000000006b4a205b60bc864 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Acee. I thought about the ospfIfConfigError trap with the noError code. Would have been nice if noError was defined as 255 with 13 to 254 defined for future definitions, but that ship already sailed far and out :) Regards, Muthu On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:52 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Muthu, > > In that case, I would just send ospfIfRxBadPacket =E2=80=93 it contains t= he local > and remote IP addresses in the trap data. Or, you could use ospfIfConfigE= rror > and you could set the error to noError since there isn=E2=80=99t one expl= icitly > defined for this situation. > > Good Luck, > > Acee > > > > > > > > *From: *Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM > *To: *Acee Lindem > *Cc: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" , " > lsr@ietf.org" , Tulasi Rami Reddy N > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > Hi Acee, > > > > We aren't generating any trap today for the subnet mismatch case. We > wanted to get some feedback on what would be an appropriate trap to > generate from a usability standpoint, if we want to generate one.. > > > > Regards, > > Muthu > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:09 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > Hi Muthu, > > There isn=E2=80=99t a specific case for this specific error so I wouldn= =E2=80=99t reuse > the any of the specific ones with the trap. Like I said, some > implementations don=E2=80=99t generate any OSPF MIB trap for this case. W= hat are > you doing today? > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal = < > muthu.arul@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:18 AM > *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" , Tulasi Rami Reddy N < > tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > Hi Acee, > > > > This is a configuration error, right? Wouldn't ospfIfConfigError trap be > more appropriate? There is no good error code for this case > in ospfConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could have reserved some > error codes for future definitions? > > > > Regards, > > Muthu > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Acee Lindem (acee) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Tulasi, > > You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMaskMismatch trap as thi= s is for > mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You could generate the > ospfIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Tulasi Rami Reddy N < > tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM > *To: *"lsr@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > [ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated] > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both > conditions are met: > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2. Matching network mask. > > From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined. > > > > ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE > SYNTAX INTEGER { > > *netMaskMismatch (7),* > } > > > > I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). > > > > Let's take below example: > > > > RTA (11.1.1.2/24) -------- (10.1.1.1/24) RTB > > > > Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is > the error type to be set? > > Should this be considered as generic input processing error and > only generate > > *ospfIfRxBadPacket *notification or *netMaskMismatch *notification? > > Should we need a new type here? > > > > " > > The generic input processing of OSPF packets will > > have checked the validity of the IP header and the OSPF packet > > header." > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tulasi. > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N > wrote: > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2.matching network mask. > > From the > > > > Thanks, > > TUlasi. > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > --00000000000006b4a205b60bc864 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Acee. I though= t about the=C2=A0ospfIfConfigError trap with the noError code. Would have b= een nice if noError was defined as 255 with 13 to 254 defined for future de= finitions, but that ship already sailed far and out :)

Regards,
Muthu

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:52 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Muthu,

In that case, I would just send ospfIfRxBadPacket = =E2=80=93 it contains the local and remote IP addresses in the trap data. O= r, you could use ospfIfConfigError and you could= set the error to noError since there isn=E2=80=99t one explicitly defined = for this situation.

Good Luck,

Acee

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Peru= mal <muthu.aru= l@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ;, "lsr@ietf.org= " <lsr@ietf.org>, Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

Hi Acee,

=C2=A0

We aren't generating any trap today= for the subnet mismatch case. We wanted to get some feedback on what would= be an appropriate trap to generate from a usability=C2=A0standpoint, if we want to generate one..

=C2=A0

Regards,

Muthu

=C2=A0

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7= :09 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Muthu,

There isn=E2=80=99t a specific case for this specific error so I wouldn=E2= =80=99t reuse the any of the specific ones with the trap. Like I said, some= implementations don=E2=80=99t generate any OSPF MIB trap for this case. Wh= at are you doing today?

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul= Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:18 AM
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ;
Cc: "lsr@ietf= .org" <lsr@ie= tf.org>, Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

Hi Acee,=

=C2=A0

This is a confi= guration error, right? Wouldn't=C2=A0ospfIfConfigError trap be more= appropriate? There is no good error code for this case in=C2=A0ospfConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could hav= e reserved some error codes for future definitions?

=C2=A0

Reg= ards,

Mut= hu

=C2=A0

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or= g> wrote:

Hi Tulasi,

You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMaskMismatch trap as this = is for mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You could generate the osp= fIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case.

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tulasi Ram= i Reddy N <tu= lasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM
To: "lsr@ietf= .org" <lsr@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

[ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated]

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both condition= s are met:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP s= ubnet=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. Matching ne= twork mask.

>From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 INTEGER { =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 netMaskMismatch (7),
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0

I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). <= /p>

=C2=A0

Let's take below example:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 RTA=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (11.1.1.2/24) =C2=A0 --------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (10.1.1.1/24) RTB

=C2=A0

Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is th= e error type to be set?

Should this be considered as generic input processing error and only=C2=A0g= enerate

ospfIfRxBadPacket notification or netMaskMismatch=C2=A0 notif= ication?

Should we need a new type here?

=C2=A0

"

The generic input processing of OSPF packets will

have checked the validity of the IP header a= nd the OSPF packet

header.&= quot;=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Tulasi.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:=

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when <= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP s= ubnet

2.matching network mask.

>From the

=C2=A0

Thanks,

TUlasi.

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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Hello Peter,

follow-up questions= with [Zhenqiang].

=0A=
FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently.<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transp= arent;"> 
For IPv4 it will take all routers participa= ting in MT0 and run the FA
calculation on top of MT0.&n= bsp;
For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT= 2 and run the FA
calculation on top of MT2.

<= /div>
[Zhenqiang] Could you please elaborate this explicitly in the dra= ft? For example, in section 7, replace the setence "IP Flex-A= lgorithm application only considers participating nodes IP= Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes within the s= ame MTID during the Flex-Algorithm calculation<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transp= arent;">".

[Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are calculated within specific = MT, I think one = new top-level TLV for ISIS is enough to advertise prefix reachability = associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the one defined in section 6.1. M= TID can be used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6.

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
Date: 2020-12-09 21:05
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call f= or "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - dr= aft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01
Hi Jimmy,
=0A=
 
=0A=
On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
=0A=
> Hi Peter,
=0A=
>
=0A=
>> -----Original Message-----
=0A=
>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
=0A=
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45 PM
=0A=
>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem = (acee)
=0A=
>> <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr <lsr@ietf.o= rg>
=0A=
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Al= gorithms
=0A=
>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-f= lexalgo-01
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>> Jimmy,
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
=0A=
>>> Hi authors,
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> Here is one comment following the previous discussion on = the mail list
=0A=
>>> and the IETF meeting.
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-= Algorithm
=0A=
>>> participation information, there is no separate TLV for I= Pv4 or IPv6
=0A=
>>> Flex-Algo participation.
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>> the draft clearly says:
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>>      "The IP Flex-Algorithm par= ticipation advertised in ISIS IP Algorithm
=0A=
>>      Sub-TLV is topology independent= ."
=0A=
>
=0A=
> This does not answer my question.
=0A=
>
=0A=
> Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo Path calculation:
= =0A=
>
=0A=
> " IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating= nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation.  When computing paths fo= r a given Flex-Algorithm, all nodes that do not advertise participation for= IP Flex-Algorithm, as described in Section 5, MUST be pruned from the topo= logy."
=0A=
>
=0A=
>>From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell whether a node particip= ates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This would cause the problem = described below: >
=0A=
> When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participation to compute a path f= or an IPv6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it will not prune the nod= es which participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the topology. Thus= IPv6 packets following that path may get dropped on nodes which participat= es in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only.
=0A=
 
=0A=
FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently.
=0A=
 
=0A=
For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA =
=0A=
calculation on top of MT0.
=0A=
 
=0A=
For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA =
=0A=
calculation on top of MT2.
=0A=
 
=0A=
 
=0A=
>
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some= of these
=0A=
>>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure th= at the path
=0A=
>>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which = only
=0A=
>>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128?
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>> there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or &= quot;IPv6 Flex-Algo 128".
=0A=
>> There is only algo 128.
=0A=
>
=0A=
> Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or data plane agnostic, a= nd as we discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used with both IPv4 and IPv6 (= maybe also for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as shorthand of "F= lex-Algo 128 used with IPv4 or IPv6"
=0A=
>
=0A=
>> You are mixing data plane support with algo participation.=0A=
>
=0A=
> I understand Flex-Algo definition is application agnostic, and Fl= ex-Algo participation is application specific, it is just not clear to me w= hether IPv4 and IPv6 can be treated as one application.
=0A=
 
=0A=
yes they can.
=0A=
 
=0A=
>
=0A=
>> If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports speci= fic data plane,
=0A=
>> you would need to define a specific algo for it.
=0A=
>
=0A=
> This IMO contradicts with the base concept: Flex-Algo definition = is application (or data plane) agnostic.
=0A=
 
=0A=
not really, see above.
=0A=
 
=0A=
thanks,
=0A=
Peter
=0A=
 
=0A=
>
=0A=
> Best regards,
=0A=
> Jie
=0A=
>
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>> thanks,
=0A=
>> Peter
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>>
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> Best regards,
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> Jie
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *A= cee Lindem
=0A=
>>> (acee)
=0A=
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
=0A=
>>> *To:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
=0A=
>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible = Algorithms
=0A=
>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-= ip-flexalgo-01
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of dis= cussion on
=0A=
>>> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was = generally
=0A=
>>> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adopti= on call.
=0A=
>>> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption = on this list
=0A=
>>> prior to
=0A=
>>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comme= nts are
=0A=
>>> certainly welcome.
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> Thanks,
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>>> Acee
=0A=
>>>
=0A=
>
=0A=
>
=0A=
>
=0A=
 
=0A=
_______________________________________________
=0A=
Lsr mailing list
=0A=
Lsr@ietf.org
=0A=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
=0A=
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Thu, 10 Dec 2020 06:17:35 +0000 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , Peter Psenak , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqggAAPfYCAACN6gIAAA8+AgAD6zdyAACBy0A== Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 06:17:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com>, <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com>, <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com>, , <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: hotmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;hotmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2602:306:36ca:6640:c98e:8f45:15f1:c01a] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e7c3c1c6-9907-4a08-5605-08d89cd34945 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR11MB4056: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; 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boundary="_000_BY5PR11MB43379FFF67C0E5B14864C0A9C1CB0BY5PR11MB4337namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR11MB4337.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e7c3c1c6-9907-4a08-5605-08d89cd34945 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Dec 2020 06:17:35.3598 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: lHH7mFxN3nIjbnNVoM9gKnRFfPkVDQW4Ar90LZGiJaHcvRbxteZhR6cRZaO1dghqmbxph1AoHObN1Ptdt+zRAw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR11MB4056 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 06:17:46 -0000 --_000_BY5PR11MB43379FFF67C0E5B14864C0A9C1CB0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Zhenqiang - In regards to: [Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are calculated within specific MT, = I think one new top-level TLV for ISIS is enough to advertise prefix reacha= bility associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the one defined in section= 6.1. MTID can be used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6. You have misunderstood RFC 5120. It is true that the reserved MTIDs defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rf= c/rfc5120.html Section 7.5 are restricted to support only a single AFI/SAF= I, but non-reserved MTIDs are NOT subject to this restriction. It is quite = possible to use one of the unreserved MTIDs and support forwarding of both = IPv4 and IPv6 address families on the topology associated with that MTID. T= herefore, it is necessary to define AF specific TLVs. And that is why RFC 5= 120 did so and why this draft also must do so. Draft authors - https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01#section-6.2 sta= tes: "The ISIS IPv6 Algorithm Prefix Reachability TLV is identical to the ISIS IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability TLV, except that it has a unique type." But this is not completely accurate. The existing Prefix Reachability TLVs for IPV4 (135, 235) and IPv6 (236, 23= 7) have different flags formats. See https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5305.html#section-4 and https://www.r= fc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5308.html Section 2 respectively. And of course the legal ranges for prefix length are different. I would expect these differences to be preserved in the new TLVs defined in= this draft. It would therefore be better (and more accurate) if you replac= ed the above statement with a diagram for the new IPv6 TLV comparable to th= e one in Section 6.1. Thanx. Les From: Lsr On Behalf Of li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 8:04 PM To: Peter Psenak ; Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) = ; lsr Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Hello Peter, follow-up questions with [Zhenqiang]. FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA calculation on top of MT0. For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA calculation on top of MT2. [Zhenqiang] Could you please elaborate this explicitly in the draft? For ex= ample, in section 7, replace the setence "IP Flex-Algorithm application onl= y considers participating nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation" with= "IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes within t= he same MTID during the Flex-Algorithm calculation". [Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are calculated within specific MT, = I think one new top-level TLV for ISIS is enough to advertise prefix reacha= bility associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the one defined in section= 6.1. MTID can be used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6. Best Regards, Zhenqiang Li ________________________________ li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com From: Peter Psenak Date: 2020-12-09 21:05 To: Dongjie (Jimmy); Acee Lindem (acee); lsr Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Hi Jimmy, On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Peter, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) >; A= cee Lindem (acee) >> >; lsr > >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Jimmy, >> >> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> Hi authors, >>> >>> Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail list >>> and the IETF meeting. >>> >>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm >>> participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 >>> Flex-Algo participation. >> >> the draft clearly says: >> >> "The IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP Algorith= m >> Sub-TLV is topology independent." > > This does not answer my question. > > Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo Path calculation: > > " IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes during= the Flex-Algorithm calculation. When computing paths for a given Flex-Alg= orithm, all nodes that do not advertise participation for IP Flex-Algorithm= , as described in Section 5, MUST be pruned from the topology." > >>From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell whether a node participates in Fle= x-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This would cause the problem described b= elow: > > When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participation to compute a path for an IP= v6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it will not prune the nodes which= participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the topology. Thus IPv6 pa= ckets following that path may get dropped on nodes which participates in Fl= ex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only. FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA calculation on top of MT0. For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA calculation on top of MT2. > >> >>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these >>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path >>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only >>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128? >> >> there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 Flex-Algo 128". >> There is only algo 128. > > Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or data plane agnostic, and as we= discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used with both IPv4 and IPv6 (maybe al= so for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as shorthand of "Flex-Algo 128 = used with IPv4 or IPv6" > >> You are mixing data plane support with algo participation. > > I understand Flex-Algo definition is application agnostic, and Flex-Algo = participation is application specific, it is just not clear to me whether I= Pv4 and IPv6 can be treated as one application. yes they can. > >> If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports specific data pl= ane, >> you would need to define a specific algo for it. > > This IMO contradicts with the base concept: Flex-Algo definition is appli= cation (or data plane) agnostic. not really, see above. thanks, Peter > > Best regards, > Jie > >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Jie >>> >>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >>> (acee) >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM >>> *To:* lsr > >>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>> >>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on >>> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally >>> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. >>> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list >>> prior to >>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are >>> certainly welcome. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Acee >>> > > > _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_BY5PR11MB43379FFF67C0E5B14864C0A9C1CB0BY5PR11MB4337namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Zhenqiang –

 

In regards to:

 

<snip>

[Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are calculat= ed within specific MT, I think one new top-level TLV for ISIS is enough to = advertise prefix reachability associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the= one defined in section 6.1. MTID can be used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6.

<end snip>

 

You have misunderstood RFC 5120.

It is true that the reserved MTIDs defined in https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5120.html Section 7.5  are restr= icted to support only a single AFI/SAFI, but non-reserved MTIDs are NOT sub= ject to this restriction. It is quite possible to use one of the unreserved= MTIDs and support forwarding of both IPv4 and IPv6 address families on the topology associated with that MTID. = Therefore, it is necessary to define AF specific TLVs. And that is why RFC = 5120 did so and why this draft also must do so.

 

Draft authors –

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-ls= r-ip-flexalgo-01#section-6.2 states:

 

“The ISIS IPv6 Algorithm Prefix Reachability T= LV is identical to the

   ISIS IPv4 Algorithm Prefix Reachability= TLV, except that it has a

   unique type.”

 

But this is not completely accurate.

The existing Prefix Reachability TLVs for IPV4 (135,= 235) and IPv6 (236, 237) have different flags formats.

See https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5305.html#section-4 and https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5308.html  Section 2 respectivel= y.

And of course the legal ranges for prefix length are= different.

 

I would expect these differences to be preserved in = the new TLVs defined in this draft. It would therefore be better (and more = accurate) if you replaced the above statement with a diagram for the new IP= v6 TLV comparable to the one in Section 6.1.

 

Thanx.

 

   Les

 

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 8:04 PM
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Dongj= ie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cis= co.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithm= s (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

Hello Peter,

 

follow-up questions with [Zhenqiang].

 

FA calculation is done for every MT topology in= dependently. 

For IPv4 it will take all routers participating= in MT0 and run the FA

calculation on top of MT0. 

For IPv6 it will take all routers participating= in MT2 and run the FA

calculation on top of MT2.

 

[Zhenqiang] Could you please elaborate this exp= licitly in the draft? For example, in section 7, replace the setence "= IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation" with "IP Flex-= Algorithm application only considers participating nodes within the same MT= ID during the Flex-Algorithm calculation".

 

[Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are cal= culated within specific MT, I think one new top-level TLV for ISI= S is enough to advertise prefix reachability associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the one defined in section 6.1. MTID can be= used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6.

 

Best Regards,

Zhenqiang Li

 

From: Peter Psenak

Date: 2020-12-09 21:05

Subject:<= /span> Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexibl= e Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-fle= xalgo-01

Hi Jimmy,

 

On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>

>> -----Original Message-----<= /span>

>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45= PM

>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)

>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call fo= r "IGP Flexible Algorithms

>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" = - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

>> 

>> Jimmy,

>> 

>> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) w= rote:

>>> Hi authors,

>>> 

>>> Here is one comment following the = previous discussion on the mail list

>>> and the IETF meeting.

>>> 

>>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to= advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm

>>> participation information, there i= s no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6

>>> Flex-Algo participation.

>> 

>> the draft clearly says:

>> 

>>      "Th= e IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP Algorithm

>>      Sub-TLV = is topology independent."

>

> This does not answer my question.

>

> Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo = Path calculation:

>

> " IP Flex-Algorithm application only = considers participating nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation.  = When computing paths for a given Flex-Algorithm, all nodes that do not advertise participation for IP Flex-Algorithm, as described in= Section 5, MUST be pruned from the topology."

>

>>From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell = whether a node participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This w= ould cause the problem described below: >

> When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participat= ion to compute a path for an IPv6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it= will not prune the nodes which participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the topology. Thus IPv6 packets following that path= may get dropped on nodes which participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only= .

 

FA calculation is done for every MT topology in= dependently.

 

For IPv4 it will take all routers participating= in MT0 and run the FA

calculation on top of MT0.

 

For IPv6 it will take all routers participating= in MT2 and run the FA

calculation on top of MT2.

 

 

>

>> 

>>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 = Flex-Algo 128, and some of these

>>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Alg= o 128, how to ensure that the path

>>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will n= ot use the nodes which only

>>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128?=

>> 

>> there is no such thing as "IPv4 F= lex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 Flex-Algo 128".

>> There is only algo 128.

>

> Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or= data plane agnostic, and as we discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used wi= th both IPv4 and IPv6 (maybe also for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as shorthand of "Flex-Algo 128 used with IPv4 or= IPv6"

>

>> You are mixing data plane support with= algo participation.

>

> I understand Flex-Algo definition is appli= cation agnostic, and Flex-Algo participation is application specific, it is= just not clear to me whether IPv4 and IPv6 can be treated as one application.

 

yes they can.

 

>

>> If you want an algo to only include no= des that supports specific data plane,

>> you would need to define a specific al= go for it.

>

> This IMO contradicts with the base concept= : Flex-Algo definition is application (or data plane) agnostic.<= /span>

 

not really, see above.

 

thanks,

Peter

 

>

> Best regards,

> Jie

>

>> 

>> thanks,

>> Peter

>> 

>> 

>>> 

>>> Best regards,

>>> 

>>> Jie

>>> 

>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lind= em

>>> (acee)

>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 202= 0 5:13 AM

>>> *To:* lsr <lsr@ietf.org>

>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call = for "IGP Flexible Algorithms

>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks&qu= ot; - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

>>> 

>>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft gener= ated quite a bit of discussion on

>>> use cases and deployment prior to = IETF 109 and there was generally

>>> support for WG adoption. This begi= ns a two week WG adoption call.

>>> Please indicate your support or ob= jection to WG adoption on this list

>>> prior to

>>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2= 020. Also, review comments are

>>> certainly welcome.

>>> 

>>> Thanks,

>>> 

>>> Acee

>>> 

>

>

>

 

_______________________________________________=

Lsr mailing list

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lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCA= Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 08:06:22 +0000 Message-ID: <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org 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00:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 610D93A0B37 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 00:57:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7039; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1607590664; x=1608800264; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zNvGbhzRtkiNCsK90qOS0w6MnSWO4leSRK32bMcQlo8=; b=eMgkA6C0qQ/ZhsoPZQXe3R7nk7HiZyNmEWUaruHqiYXH65vXpPT0uKUd chuqD5rUJk0pHmJ1ZpoO919e4hqRA1TXCqwEynVKvSTKPiY/hz6iitk82 z0KSxfy03+AOwvnN9/y817Cbvm4wVFbFquWhjInItelt2ywmuOQhYRfZU U=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BjAQCt4dFflxbLJq1iHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?U+DH1cBIBIuhD+JBId5LQOCcIcokhsLAQEBDxgLDAQBAYRKAoIAJjgTAgMBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEDAgMBAQEBBQEBAQIBBgQUAQEBAQEBAQGGNgyFcgEBAQQBARsGDwEFNhcEC?= 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<29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <2f30d00a-b994-91eb-e447-e81642cb0a66@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:57:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 08:57:47 -0000 Zhenqiang, On 10/12/2020 05:03, li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com wrote: > Hello Peter, > > follow-up questions with [Zhenqiang]. > > FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. > For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA > calculation on top of MT0. > For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA > calculation on top of MT2. > > [Zhenqiang] Could you please elaborate this explicitly in the draft? For > example, in section 7, replace the setence "IP Flex-Algorithm > application only considers participating nodes during the Flex-Algorithm > calculation" with "IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers > participating nodes within the same MTID during the Flex-Algorithm > calculation". FA does not changing the way SPFs and route calculations are done for each MT. We are only adding FA constraints to existing MT calculations. thanks, Peter > > [Zhenqiang]Since paths for IP flex-algo are calculated within specific > MT, I think one new top-level TLV for ISIS is enough to advertise prefix > reachability associated with a Flex-Algorithm, that is the one defined > in section 6.1. MTID can be used to indicate it is for IPv4 or IPv6. > > Best Regards, > Zhenqiang Li > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > > *From:* Peter Psenak > *Date:* 2020-12-09 21:05 > *To:* Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem > (acee) ; lsr > > *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > Hi Jimmy, > On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45 PM > >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) > >> ; lsr > >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > >> > >> Jimmy, > >> > >> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > >>> Hi authors, > >>> > >>> Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the > mail list > >>> and the IETF meeting. > >>> > >>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm > >>> participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or > IPv6 > >>> Flex-Algo participation. > >> > >> the draft clearly says: > >> > >>      "The IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP > Algorithm > >>      Sub-TLV is topology independent." > > > > This does not answer my question. > > > > Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo Path calculation: > > > > " IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating > nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation.  When computing paths > for a given Flex-Algorithm, all nodes that do not advertise > participation for IP Flex-Algorithm, as described in Section 5, MUST > be pruned from the topology." > > > >>From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell whether a node > participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This would > cause the problem described below: > > > When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participation to compute a path > for an IPv6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it will not prune > the nodes which participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the > topology. Thus IPv6 packets following that path may get dropped on > nodes which participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only. > FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. > For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA > calculation on top of MT0. > For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA > calculation on top of MT2. > > > >> > >>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these > >>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the > path > >>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only > >>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128? > >> > >> there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 > Flex-Algo 128". > >> There is only algo 128. > > > > Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or data plane agnostic, > and as we discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used with both IPv4 > and IPv6 (maybe also for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as > shorthand of "Flex-Algo 128 used with IPv4 or IPv6" > > > >> You are mixing data plane support with algo participation. > > > > I understand Flex-Algo definition is application agnostic, and > Flex-Algo participation is application specific, it is just not > clear to me whether IPv4 and IPv6 can be treated as one application. > yes they can. > > > >> If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports specific > data plane, > >> you would need to define a specific algo for it. > > > > This IMO contradicts with the base concept: Flex-Algo definition > is application (or data plane) agnostic. > not really, see above. > thanks, > Peter > > > > Best regards, > > Jie > > > >> > >> thanks, > >> Peter > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Jie > >>> > >>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem > >>> (acee) > >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM > >>> *To:* lsr > >>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > >>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > >>> > >>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on > >>> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally > >>> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. > >>> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on > this list > >>> prior to > >>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are > >>> certainly welcome. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Acee > >>> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > From nobody Thu Dec 10 01:04:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3639D3A0C5F for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:04:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSiwQLdMSrg7 for ; 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d="scan'208";a="31732266" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 10 Dec 2020 09:04:32 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0BA94Vl0032060; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:04:32 GMT To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 10:04:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:04:56 -0000 Hi Jimmy, On 10/12/2020 09:06, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Peter, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 9:06 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >> ; lsr >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Hi Jimmy, >> >> On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45 PM >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>> ; lsr >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>>> >>>> Jimmy, >>>> >>>> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>>>> Hi authors, >>>>> >>>>> Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail >>>>> list and the IETF meeting. >>>>> >>>>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm >>>>> participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 >>>>> Flex-Algo participation. >>>> >>>> the draft clearly says: >>>> >>>> "The IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP Algorithm >>>> Sub-TLV is topology independent." >>> >>> This does not answer my question. >>> >>> Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo Path calculation: >>> >>> " IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes during >> the Flex-Algorithm calculation. When computing paths for a given >> Flex-Algorithm, all nodes that do not advertise participation for IP >> Flex-Algorithm, as described in Section 5, MUST be pruned from the >> topology." >>> >>> >From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell whether a node participates in >>>> Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This would cause the problem >>>> described below: > >>> When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participation to compute a path for an >> IPv6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it will not prune the nodes which >> participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the topology. Thus IPv6 >> packets following that path may get dropped on nodes which participates in >> Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only. >> >> FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. >> >> For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA >> calculation on top of MT0. >> >> For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA >> calculation on top of MT2. >> > > Using different MTs for different data plane and run FA path computation within each MT may solve the problem in many cases. > > While the different rules related to FA definition, FA participation, and FA reachability advertisement still make me a little confused, and there may be some cases not covered by the above approach. > > - Flex-Algo definition is application independent and topology independent. > > - IP Flex-Algo participation is application specific and topology independent. > > - IPv4 and IPv6 are considered as one application, while may use different topologies. > > - IP Flex-Algo reachability advertisement is per AF, and may with different topologies. > > With the above rules, let's consider the case below: > > - A node participates in both MT 0 (for IPv4) and MT 2 (for IPv6). > > - This node advertises its IP Flex-Algo participation of FA 128. > > - This node advertises IPv4 Flex-Algo reachability with MT=0/FA=128. > > - This node does NOT advertise IPv6 Flex-Algo reachability for FA 128. It may advertise normal IPv6 reachability in MT 2. > > Thus this node is not reachable in MT 2 with FA 128. above is wrong. The node participates in MT2 and FA 128, as such it is reachable in MT2 in FA 128. >While it will be considered by other nodes for path computation in MT 2 with FA 128. > > The question is: will this node compute paths for other IPv6 prefixes advertised with MT=2/FA=128? absolutely. It is participating in MT2 and FA 128. The fact that "does NOT advertise IPv6 Flex-Algo reachability" is completely irrelevant. It is NOT mandatory for a node to advertise the reachability for prefix in every MT/FA algo it participates. Similarly it is not required for a node that participates in in MT0 to advetise any IPv4 prefix and IPv4 traffic will flow over it. > > If not, this node may drop packets whose destination is IPv6 prefixes with FA 128. > > And do you think it is needed to provide approach to only consider this node for IPv4 path computation with FA 128, and prune it from IPv6 path computation with FA 128? For example, make the IP Flex-Algo participation per AF or per topology? absolutely not. thanks, Peter > > Best regards, > Jie > >>>> >>>>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these >>>>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path >>>>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only >>>>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128? >>>> >>>> there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 Flex-Algo 128". >>>> There is only algo 128. >>> >>> Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or data plane agnostic, and as we >> discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used with both IPv4 and IPv6 (maybe >> also for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as shorthand of "Flex-Algo >> 128 used with IPv4 or IPv6" >>> >>>> You are mixing data plane support with algo participation. >>> >>> I understand Flex-Algo definition is application agnostic, and Flex-Algo >> participation is application specific, it is just not clear to me whether IPv4 >> and IPv6 can be treated as one application. >> >> yes they can. >> >>> >>>> If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports specific data >> plane, >>>> you would need to define a specific algo for it. >>> >>> This IMO contradicts with the base concept: Flex-Algo definition is >> application (or data plane) agnostic. >> >> not really, see above. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Jie >>> >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Jie >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >>>>> (acee) >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM >>>>> *To:* lsr >>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>>>> >>>>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on >>>>> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally >>>>> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. >>>>> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list >>>>> prior to >>>>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are >>>>> certainly welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Acee >>>>> >>> >>> >>> > > > From nobody Thu Dec 10 04:02:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C823A0D1C for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 04:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mantoGYGLvJ8 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 04:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client 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(Jimmy)" To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:02:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:02:40 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZXIsIA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IFBldGVy IFBzZW5hayBbbWFpbHRvOnBwc2VuYWtAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgRGVj ZW1iZXIgMTAsIDIwMjAgNTowNSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogRG9uZ2ppZSAoSmltbXkpIDxqaWUuZG9uZ0Bo dWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpDQo+IDxhY2VlPTQwY2lzY28uY29tQGRtYXJj LmlldGYub3JnPjsgbHNyIDxsc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHNyXSBXRyBB ZG9wdGlvbiBDYWxsIGZvciAiSUdQIEZsZXhpYmxlIEFsZ29yaXRobXMgKEZsZXgtQWxnb3JpdGht KQ0KPiBJbiBJUCBOZXR3b3JrcyIgLSBkcmFmdC1ib25pY2EtbHNyLWlwLWZsZXhhbGdvLTAxDQo+ IA0KPiBIaSBKaW1teSwNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDEwLzEyLzIwMjAgMDk6MDYsIERvbmdqaWUgKEppbW15 KSB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBIaSBQZXRlciwNCj4gPg0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KPiA+PiBGcm9tOiBQZXRlciBQc2VuYWsgW21haWx0bzpwcHNlbmFrQGNpc2NvLmNvbV0N 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(8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0BADLbkf002601; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 13:21:38 GMT To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 14:21:37 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.147.24.45, [10.147.24.45] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 13:21:48 -0000 Hi Jimmy, On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > In Flex-Algo draft, it says: > > "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements MAY be topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the application itself." > > The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that one node always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for all the topologies it joins. > > I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the reason of this design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology specific) would be useful in some cases. > this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a string reason to do it per topology. > BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a single application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this list: > > [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little vague, are SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? > > [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the same participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled independently of FA participation. > > Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in addition to the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support information of nodes also needs to be considered, so that nodes participate in this Flex-Algo but do not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? no. thanks, Peter > If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If not, please clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same Flex-Algo for SR-MPLS only? 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Thu, 10 Dec 2020 16:36:17 +0000 From: tom petch To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Working Group Last Call for "YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric" - draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 Thread-Index: AQHWx0SsSD3k6047WEWShVA+1btoSqnupbp/gADd5ICAARH5Ag== Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 16:36:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8B083C62-AC6A-40F7-8105-CDFB216B7F33@cisco.com> , <9274E9A0-73E2-4991-AA8E-BB2D510D4261@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9274E9A0-73E2-4991-AA8E-BB2D510D4261@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4f77b6b5-80e3-451b-3730-08d89d29b7e9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB5107: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:17:49 +0000 From: tom petch To: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson CC: "last-call@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric.all@ietf.org" , "lsr@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 Thread-Index: AQHWzEO8PLTovhETt0Smprg2hQ0vaqnwkqCi Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <160730939072.4448.14205081033305726081@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160730939072.4448.14205081033305726081@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [86.146.121.140] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7d2b2c2b-39e4-4e7a-9285-08d89d2f8501 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR07MB3975: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7d2b2c2b-39e4-4e7a-9285-08d89d2f8501 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Dec 2020 17:17:49.2485 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 34ujMytJsfGAHFOk/yqgab6MUqQUvVRVTM+d2atWUqOnipXLN/smW77tuLlrZSrHGIt94UAOBJ+McnMlH3PscA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR07MB3975 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2020 17:17:57 -0000 From: Lsr on behalf of Michael Richardson via Datatr= acker =0A= Sent: 07 December 2020 02:49=0A= =0A= Reviewer: Michael Richardson=0A= Review result: Ready=0A= =0A= This document is a short YANG module relating to RFC8500, and expertise in = that=0A= RFC are required to be sure if all the right control bits are required. It = has=0A= reasonable security consideration, although the words, "The lowest NETCONF= =0A= layer is the secure transport layer" seems a bit awkward. I would instead= =0A= write, "All [NETCONF] transactions run over a secure transport layer, which= is=0A= SSH"...=0A= =0A= =0A= I think that that would be a mistake. The text in question is specified by= YANG Guidelines RFC8407 and appears in (almost) all I-D with a YANG Modul= e. The text is the consensus of the NETMOD WG. The Secure Transport layer= is a defined part of the Netconf architecture and can be implemented by at= least four protocols.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= Lsr mailing list=0A= Lsr@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=0A= From nobody Thu Dec 10 09:42:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA50C3A0FD5; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 09:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com 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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w//+7mIAANZ9iQA== Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 08:17:27 +0000 Message-ID: <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 08:17:36 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZXIsIA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IFBldGVy IFBzZW5hayBbbWFpbHRvOnBwc2VuYWtAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgRGVj ZW1iZXIgMTAsIDIwMjAgOToyMiBQTQ0KPiBUbzogRG9uZ2ppZSAoSmltbXkpIDxqaWUuZG9uZ0Bo dWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gKGFjZWUpDQo+IDxhY2VlPTQwY2lzY28uY29tQGRtYXJj LmlldGYub3JnPjsgbHNyIDxsc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHNyXSBXRyBB ZG9wdGlvbiBDYWxsIGZvciAiSUdQIEZsZXhpYmxlIEFsZ29yaXRobXMgKEZsZXgtQWxnb3JpdGht KQ0KPiBJbiBJUCBOZXR3b3JrcyIgLSBkcmFmdC1ib25pY2EtbHNyLWlwLWZsZXhhbGdvLTAxDQo+ IA0KPiBIaSBKaW1teSwNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDEwLzEyLzIwMjAgMTM6MDIsIERvbmdqaWUgKEppbW15 KSB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBJbiBGbGV4LUFsZ28gZHJhZnQsIGl0IHNheXM6DQo+ID4NCj4gPiAiQXBw 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X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,410,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="31824624" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 11 Dec 2020 09:13:11 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0BB9DAvr008168; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:13:10 GMT To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:13:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:13:18 -0000 Hi Jimmy, On 11/12/2020 09:17, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Peter, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 9:22 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >> ; lsr >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) >> In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Hi Jimmy, >> >> On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> In Flex-Algo draft, it says: >>> >>> "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements MAY be >> topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the >> application itself." >>> >>> The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that one node >> always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for all the >> topologies it joins. >>> >>> I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the reason of this >> design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology specific) would >> be useful in some cases. >>> >> >> this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a string >> reason to do it per topology. >> >> >>> BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a single >> application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this list: >>> >>> [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little vague, are >> SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? >>> >>> [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the same >> participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled independently >> of FA participation. >>> >>> Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in addition to >> the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support information of nodes >> also needs to be considered, so that nodes participate in this Flex-Algo but do >> not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? >> >> no. > > Let me elaborate with an example: > > 20 20 > A------B-------C > 10 | 10 | / > | | / 10 > D------E --* > 10 > > (The metrics on the links are delay metric) > > - Flex-Algo 128 is defined to use delay metric for computation. This FAD is application independent, thus can be used by all applications. > > - All of the nodes (A, B, C, D, E) participate in FA 128. > > - Node A, B, C, D support both SR-MPLS and SRv6. > > - Node E support SR-MPLS only, it may support IPv6. > > Then node A computes the path to node C with FA 128. According to the computation rules of FA 128, the path would be A-D-E-C. This path can be used to send SR-MPLS packet to node C. > > But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, because node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128. > > Do you think this is a problem? > > IMO this problem is due to the FA calculation is based on the combination of the constraints in FA definition, and the nodes' FA participation (which is app specific), while since SR-MPLS and SRv6 are treated as one single application, the difference in supporting SR-MPLS or SRv6 is not considered in FA calculation. This is why I asked whether the SRv6 support information also need be considered in FA calculation. > > To solve this problem, there are several options: > > Option 1: Define two different Flex-Algos for delay metric computation, one for SR-MPLS, the other one for SRv6. But this makes the FAD application dependent. Option 1 is the right one, given the way things are defined. And honestly I do not see a need to change it. > Option 2: Include the SR-MPLS or SRv6 information in Flex-Algo participation, i.e. make SR-MPLS and SRv6 separate applications. Theoretically you can make SR MPLS and SRv6 a different applications using FA. Given the SR nature of both we intentionally kept them as a single app from FA perspective. > Option 3: Also consider the SRv6 (or SR-MPLS) capability information in FA calculation. no. This is not being done for algo 0 either and it has nothing to do with FA. thanks, Peter > > Or do you have other options in mind? > > Best regards, > Jie > >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If not, please >> clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same Flex-Algo for >> SR-MPLS only? Thanks. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Jie > > > From nobody Fri Dec 11 01:16:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA0F3A03FB for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:16:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2aawZSkpcUGB for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x132.google.com (mail-lf1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D524F3A03FA for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x132.google.com with SMTP id h19so12338222lfc.12 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:16:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EjRMx5i8HEeK4mqoZhTsyhuQxoqSeCxbz4rnWRzR38M=; b=ZAwo7OJ0dXgHrFr9g0MJOApNa+TFQ1wvcbADaXGgo7fN1Jeg1RCQWEBJlBhlqJR+yR jeNGzh/Cp9uSB0O44kfy/lQwU44ewgiFAhs7wyatR0ULV5P+OmK7vz6+9GhUs+8JmnVi QAxfz7XM81BMlVNd4abemgSV0MCzMniu3jZHmqsw+AD5Z+cPborMDWjHMMPvrt5r1uJQ yyp4uxHX9R+I9KN1S3KpEkwWTGY7RiBeS0ou7mIsnSdLF5Ulge8n/SEm/dwYo6er5OOV BxYKt16PhVz9YigNzPCA7dsvVSEq9yLALJEw6rshEnnsV2EDK52PMQC3/5HNnMw/TCf8 5xBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EjRMx5i8HEeK4mqoZhTsyhuQxoqSeCxbz4rnWRzR38M=; b=uVx2ie6OsHZP7q5Vzak1vu5Bu4+5PQuUOmIe40tCPbDGxA443Fm82km39JWPAm2EpZ rzkjqezmTV1S0Bli2ziCoOOjNDjagJ2zTImPQ7x5TgQoi9lMn5NUp1KWpcBV34SM8ZGp vKr3hAVnj6yZHKs0r81p4loQUP41nupiPk5x1EhEYUXqhNrwrHUcGpZMZhw8vRszGk9y 9579TgXhnW7paCBxJtQJLpfEThxWOwHzvHP4TLjdJ5N+eNaTkjK6h30DjfAgNGqGU2Cu eGztrSYhroBJ4u+9QWNZ/W7VvDgDg/Gw6t5V1Wva059GQ52zbv/BCpjw2K77GXRqRI2o I61Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53178XJWfbq2zokiiQ0SrJ0b2TqwH1VwWtx6s/MoBYu4cAGFLdv0 lAIf9rpZLTtuSw3miPlLpTCn5IyumKtDAbqRawhjAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/Z4NdHatGiDlSZk4TkFml0ZlyikoIRofVn9FDwDfBZ1mbwY2mH/ZKTo0/8Y7WQ313QgBj20lDDYiOsBw5sK0= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4147:: with SMTP id c7mr4119851lfi.396.1607678168768; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:16:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> From: Robert Raszuk Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:15:57 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" Cc: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000029bb9b05b62cbe58" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:16:13 -0000 --00000000000029bb9b05b62cbe58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Jie, > But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the > destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, > because node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA > 128. * How can E be on the SRv6 SID list if it did not advertise SRv6 participation in the first place ? * What do you mean by "SRv6 SID in FA 128" ? Aren't SIDs global and not per FA ? Btw this is good discussion but how is this related to IP Flex Algo topic/draft ? Last - I do share your concern on how topology computation can be data plane independent. Yes it works for IP Flex Algo when IPv4 and IPv6 are topologically congruent, but when you add running SR on subset of nodes to the mix it is no longer the case. Thx, R. --00000000000029bb9b05b62cbe58 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jie,
=C2= =A0
But if node A se= nds SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the destination ad= dress, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, because node E doe= s not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128.

* How can E be on the SRv6 SID list if it did not adve= rtise SRv6 participation in the first place ?=C2=A0

* What do you mean by "SRv6 SID in FA 128" ? Aren't SIDs gl= obal and not per FA ?=C2=A0

Btw this is good discu= ssion but how is this related to IP Flex Algo topic/draft ?=C2=A0

Last - I do share your concern on how topology computation = can be data plane independent. Yes it works for IP Flex Algo when IPv4 and = IPv6 are topologically congruent, but when you add running SR on subset of = nodes to the mix it is no longer the case.

Thx,R.


--00000000000029bb9b05b62cbe58-- From nobody Fri Dec 11 01:40:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9550B3A0844 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:40:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5sKzYV4sDQyX for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AECB3A0820 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml737-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Csm093QVzz67MNq for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 17:37:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.99) by fraeml737-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:39:53 +0100 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.211) by dggeme753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 17:39:51 +0800 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) by dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 17:39:51 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: Peter Psenak , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w//+7mIAANZ9iQP//n+8A//91SPA= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:39:51 +0000 Message-ID: <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.201.204] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:40:04 -0000 Hi Peter: Following this approach, IP and SR Flex-Algo can also be distinguished by u= sing different FA IDs, thus there is no need to treat them as separate appl= ications, and the existing SR FAD TLV can be reused? My suggestion is to have a clear and consistent rule in FA participation, e= ither defining application-specific FA partifcipation for each data plane (= IPv4, IPv6, SR-MPLS, SRv6, etc.), or do not define any applications and sim= ply use different FA IDs to distinguish them. =20 Thanks ZHibo -----Original Message----- From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:13 PM To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Hi Jimmy, On 11/12/2020 09:17, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Peter, >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 9:22 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee)=20 >> ; lsr >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms=20 >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Hi Jimmy, >> >> On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> In Flex-Algo draft, it says: >>> >>> "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements=20 >>> MAY be >> topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the=20 >> application itself." >>> >>> The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that one=20 >>> node >> always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for all=20 >> the topologies it joins. >>> >>> I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the=20 >>> reason of this >> design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology=20 >> specific) would be useful in some cases. >>> >> >> this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a=20 >> string reason to do it per topology. >> >> >>> BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a=20 >>> single >> application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this= list: >>> >>> [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little vague,=20 >>> are >> SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? >>> >>> [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the same >> participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled=20 >> independently of FA participation. >>> >>> Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in=20 >>> addition to >> the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support information=20 >> of nodes also needs to be considered, so that nodes participate in=20 >> this Flex-Algo but do not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? >> >> no. >=20 > Let me elaborate with an example: >=20 > 20 20 > A------B-------C > 10 | 10 | / > | | / 10 > D------E --* > 10 >=20 > (The metrics on the links are delay metric) >=20 > - Flex-Algo 128 is defined to use delay metric for computation. This FAD = is application independent, thus can be used by all applications. >=20 > - All of the nodes (A, B, C, D, E) participate in FA 128. >=20 > - Node A, B, C, D support both SR-MPLS and SRv6. >=20 > - Node E support SR-MPLS only, it may support IPv6. >=20 > Then node A computes the path to node C with FA 128. According to the com= putation rules of FA 128, the path would be A-D-E-C. This path can be used = to send SR-MPLS packet to node C. >=20 > But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the = destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, beca= use node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128. >=20 > Do you think this is a problem? >=20 > IMO this problem is due to the FA calculation is based on the combination= of the constraints in FA definition, and the nodes' FA participation (whic= h is app specific), while since SR-MPLS and SRv6 are treated as one single = application, the difference in supporting SR-MPLS or SRv6 is not considered= in FA calculation. This is why I asked whether the SRv6 support informatio= n also need be considered in FA calculation. >=20 > To solve this problem, there are several options: >=20 > Option 1: Define two different Flex-Algos for delay metric computation, o= ne for SR-MPLS, the other one for SRv6. But this makes the FAD application = dependent. Option 1 is the right one, given the way things are defined. And honestly I= do not see a need to change it. > Option 2: Include the SR-MPLS or SRv6 information in Flex-Algo participat= ion, i.e. make SR-MPLS and SRv6 separate applications. Theoretically you can make SR MPLS and SRv6 a different applications=20 using FA. Given the SR nature of both we intentionally kept them as a=20 single app from FA perspective. > Option 3: Also consider the SRv6 (or SR-MPLS) capability information in F= A calculation. no. This is not being done for algo 0 either and it has nothing to do=20 with FA. thanks, Peter >=20 > Or do you have other options in mind? >=20 > Best regards, > Jie >=20 >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If not, p= lease >> clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same Flex-Algo f= or >> SR-MPLS only? Thanks. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Jie >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr From nobody Fri Dec 11 01:58:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40283A089A for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:58:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qou5sNYjntaC for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CCF83A0888 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 01:58:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6700; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1607680714; x=1608890314; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LjAvDC024rXF0XH/Tq8OcLCxuJyzDNv3wAtqBrG+3pU=; b=K5NBIS7QkQnoeogikA+hPOdZsRpU6MThXVHIOZUOBRpIYSV4SzqJuVzs 2CzbeN0CUNMDtznvCCGtjwGUNpvmcY5mAdMrhsbOUDeaVbbLNRzmH3QHL g57q2F0o9SX9qIDEoAlnTitgRvAuxSAD4sRBVFeazJLdQxwGN+keqzCAO o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,411,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="31825752" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 11 Dec 2020 09:58:32 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0BB9wVmR008298; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:58:32 GMT To: Huzhibo , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:58:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:58:37 -0000 Zhibo, On 11/12/2020 10:39, Huzhibo wrote: > Hi Peter: > > Following this approach, IP and SR Flex-Algo can also be distinguished by using different FA IDs, thus there is no need to treat them as separate applications, and the existing SR FAD TLV can be reused? > My suggestion is to have a clear and consistent rule in FA participation, either defining application-specific FA partifcipation for each data plane (IPv4, IPv6, SR-MPLS, SRv6, etc.), or do not define any applications and simply use different FA IDs to distinguish them. you are mixing data plane consistency with FA participation. Data plane consistency is NOT done in IGPs for regular algo 0 calculation either. If you add non MPLS capable router in a middle of your MPLS network your data path is broken and IGPs are not going to help you to find an alternate path avoiding non MPLS capable router. I see no reason to do anything extra in FA case to avoid it. We have defined SR and IP as different applications for FA for good reason. Participation for IP and SR is signaled independently. I see no reason to do the same for every possible data plane - FA is not a data plane consistency check tool - same way as regular IGPs are not the one for algo 0. thanks, Peter > > Thanks > ZHibo > -----Original Message----- > From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:13 PM > To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > Hi Jimmy, > > On 11/12/2020 09:17, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >> Hi Peter, >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 9:22 PM >>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >>> ; lsr >>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>> >>> Hi Jimmy, >>> >>> On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>>> In Flex-Algo draft, it says: >>>> >>>> "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements >>>> MAY be >>> topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the >>> application itself." >>>> >>>> The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that one >>>> node >>> always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for all >>> the topologies it joins. >>>> >>>> I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the >>>> reason of this >>> design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology >>> specific) would be useful in some cases. >>>> >>> >>> this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a >>> string reason to do it per topology. >>> >>> >>>> BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a >>>> single >>> application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this list: >>>> >>>> [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little vague, >>>> are >>> SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? >>>> >>>> [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the same >>> participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled >>> independently of FA participation. >>>> >>>> Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in >>>> addition to >>> the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support information >>> of nodes also needs to be considered, so that nodes participate in >>> this Flex-Algo but do not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? >>> >>> no. >> >> Let me elaborate with an example: >> >> 20 20 >> A------B-------C >> 10 | 10 | / >> | | / 10 >> D------E --* >> 10 >> >> (The metrics on the links are delay metric) >> >> - Flex-Algo 128 is defined to use delay metric for computation. This FAD is application independent, thus can be used by all applications. >> >> - All of the nodes (A, B, C, D, E) participate in FA 128. >> >> - Node A, B, C, D support both SR-MPLS and SRv6. >> >> - Node E support SR-MPLS only, it may support IPv6. >> >> Then node A computes the path to node C with FA 128. According to the computation rules of FA 128, the path would be A-D-E-C. This path can be used to send SR-MPLS packet to node C. >> >> But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, because node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128. >> >> Do you think this is a problem? >> >> IMO this problem is due to the FA calculation is based on the combination of the constraints in FA definition, and the nodes' FA participation (which is app specific), while since SR-MPLS and SRv6 are treated as one single application, the difference in supporting SR-MPLS or SRv6 is not considered in FA calculation. This is why I asked whether the SRv6 support information also need be considered in FA calculation. >> >> To solve this problem, there are several options: >> >> Option 1: Define two different Flex-Algos for delay metric computation, one for SR-MPLS, the other one for SRv6. But this makes the FAD application dependent. > > Option 1 is the right one, given the way things are defined. And honestly I do not see a need to change it. > > >> Option 2: Include the SR-MPLS or SRv6 information in Flex-Algo participation, i.e. make SR-MPLS and SRv6 separate applications. > > Theoretically you can make SR MPLS and SRv6 a different applications > using FA. Given the SR nature of both we intentionally kept them as a > single app from FA perspective. > >> Option 3: Also consider the SRv6 (or SR-MPLS) capability information in FA calculation. > > no. This is not being done for algo 0 either and it has nothing to do > with FA. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> >> Or do you have other options in mind? >> >> Best regards, >> Jie >> >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If not, please >>> clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same Flex-Algo for >>> SR-MPLS only? Thanks. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Jie >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > From nobody Fri Dec 11 02:05:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C02D03A08D5 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 02:05:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e9SrT-xFYcT8 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 02:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com 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dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 18:05:18 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Robert Raszuk CC: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w//+7mIAANZ9iQP//oLaA//9zgXA= Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:05:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3c7750884b634d2e85062b258b8dc868@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.143] Content-Type: 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(10.1.198.211) by dggeme703-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 18:06:52 +0800 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) by dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 18:06:52 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: Peter Psenak , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w//+7mIAANZ9iQP//n+8A//91SPCAAJdkgP//d9fQ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:06:52 +0000 Message-ID: <1cfa751cd9cf4ef291eb1fc2a40e437d@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.201.204] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:07:06 -0000 SGkgcGV0ZXI6DQoNCiAgICBBcyB5b3Ugc2FpZCwgSUdQIGRvZXMgbm90IGRpc3Rpbmd1aXNoIGJl 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(acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> <1cfa751cd9cf4ef291eb1fc2a40e437d@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:11:16 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1cfa751cd9cf4ef291eb1fc2a40e437d@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:11:21 -0000 Zhibo, On 11/12/2020 11:06, Huzhibo wrote: > Hi peter: > > As you said, IGP does not distinguish between IP and SR when calculating Algo 0. Why does Flexalgo distinguish between IP and SR Flexalgo? I think you're trying to explain these differences in a ambivalent way. because FA has the concept of application and participation. That is however not equal to dataplane type. thanks, Peter > > > Thanks > Zhibo > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:59 PM > To: Huzhibo ; Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > Zhibo, > > On 11/12/2020 10:39, Huzhibo wrote: >> Hi Peter: >> >> Following this approach, IP and SR Flex-Algo can also be distinguished >> by using different FA IDs, thus there is no need to treat them as >> separate applications, and the existing SR FAD TLV can be reused? > My >> suggestion is to have a clear and consistent rule in FA > participation, either defining application-specific FA partifcipation for each data plane (IPv4, IPv6, SR-MPLS, SRv6, etc.), or do not define any applications and simply use different FA IDs to distinguish them. > > you are mixing data plane consistency with FA participation. Data plane consistency is NOT done in IGPs for regular algo 0 calculation either. > If you add non MPLS capable router in a middle of your MPLS network your data path is broken and IGPs are not going to help you to find an alternate path avoiding non MPLS capable router. I see no reason to do anything extra in FA case to avoid it. > > We have defined SR and IP as different applications for FA for good reason. Participation for IP and SR is signaled independently. I see no reason to do the same for every possible data plane - FA is not a data plane consistency check tool - same way as regular IGPs are not the one for algo 0. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> >> Thanks >> ZHibo >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:13 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >> ; lsr >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Hi Jimmy, >> >> On 11/12/2020 09:17, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 9:22 PM >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>> ; lsr >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>>> >>>> Hi Jimmy, >>>> >>>> On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>>>> In Flex-Algo draft, it says: >>>>> >>>>> "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements >>>>> MAY be >>>> topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the >>>> application itself." >>>>> >>>>> The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that one >>>>> node >>>> always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for >>>> all the topologies it joins. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the >>>>> reason of this >>>> design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology >>>> specific) would be useful in some cases. >>>>> >>>> >>>> this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a >>>> string reason to do it per topology. >>>> >>>> >>>>> BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a >>>>> single >>>> application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this list: >>>>> >>>>> [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little >>>>> vague, are >>>> SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? >>>>> >>>>> [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the same >>>> participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled >>>> independently of FA participation. >>>>> >>>>> Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in >>>>> addition to >>>> the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support >>>> information of nodes also needs to be considered, so that nodes >>>> participate in this Flex-Algo but do not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? >>>> >>>> no. >>> >>> Let me elaborate with an example: >>> >>> 20 20 >>> A------B-------C >>> 10 | 10 | / >>> | | / 10 >>> D------E --* >>> 10 >>> >>> (The metrics on the links are delay metric) >>> >>> - Flex-Algo 128 is defined to use delay metric for computation. This FAD is application independent, thus can be used by all applications. >>> >>> - All of the nodes (A, B, C, D, E) participate in FA 128. >>> >>> - Node A, B, C, D support both SR-MPLS and SRv6. >>> >>> - Node E support SR-MPLS only, it may support IPv6. >>> >>> Then node A computes the path to node C with FA 128. According to the computation rules of FA 128, the path would be A-D-E-C. This path can be used to send SR-MPLS packet to node C. >>> >>> But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, because node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128. >>> >>> Do you think this is a problem? >>> >>> IMO this problem is due to the FA calculation is based on the combination of the constraints in FA definition, and the nodes' FA participation (which is app specific), while since SR-MPLS and SRv6 are treated as one single application, the difference in supporting SR-MPLS or SRv6 is not considered in FA calculation. This is why I asked whether the SRv6 support information also need be considered in FA calculation. >>> >>> To solve this problem, there are several options: >>> >>> Option 1: Define two different Flex-Algos for delay metric computation, one for SR-MPLS, the other one for SRv6. But this makes the FAD application dependent. >> >> Option 1 is the right one, given the way things are defined. And honestly I do not see a need to change it. >> >> >>> Option 2: Include the SR-MPLS or SRv6 information in Flex-Algo participation, i.e. make SR-MPLS and SRv6 separate applications. >> >> Theoretically you can make SR MPLS and SRv6 a different applications >> using FA. Given the SR nature of both we intentionally kept them as a >> single app from FA perspective. >> >>> Option 3: Also consider the SRv6 (or SR-MPLS) capability information in FA calculation. >> >> no. This is not being done for algo 0 either and it has nothing to do >> with FA. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> Or do you have other options in mind? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Jie >>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>> If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If >>>>> not, please >>>> clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same >>>> Flex-Algo for SR-MPLS only? Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Jie >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Lsr mailing list >> Lsr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >> >> > > > From nobody Fri Dec 11 02:19:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EA13A08FA for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 02:19:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h1qkAV-6CZUm for ; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 02:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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([10.9.128.71]) by dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 18:19:36 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: Peter Psenak , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMP//h7yAgACWrCCAALhHgIAAjD2w//+7mIAANZ9iQP//n+8A//91SPCAAJdkgP//d9fQgACLuQD//3fHUA== Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:19:36 +0000 Message-ID: <9ab4744aa4e140b8832e75550878d302@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> 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GMT To: Huzhibo , "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> <64d017200b9f449fb5866729c71af221@huawei.com> <0d0797da3c8648d0bb3fcf7dcb9b8034@huawei.com> <45fe9e1f-1e7d-afc7-daf2-d9b386b01fb3@cisco.com> <38ccd154ad694230a9b36d7cf5c05ad4@huawei.com> <1cfa751cd9cf4ef291eb1fc2a40e437d@huawei.com> <9ab4744aa4e140b8832e75550878d302@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 11:26:19 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9ab4744aa4e140b8832e75550878d302@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2020 10:26:24 -0000 Zhibo, > Hi peter: > > If you think that IP and SR are two applications, which application-specific link attributes should IP flexalgo use? there are two sets: a) applications that are using the flex-algo - e.g. SR, IP. These apps are advertising participation in FA. b) application link attributes - application is "flex-algo" itself. These two are independent. Flex-algo ASLA are used for all apps in (a). thanks, Peter > > Thanks > Zhibo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 6:11 PM > To: Huzhibo ; Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > Zhibo, > > On 11/12/2020 11:06, Huzhibo wrote: >> Hi peter: >> >> As you said, IGP does not distinguish between IP and SR when calculating Algo 0. Why does Flexalgo distinguish between IP and SR Flexalgo? I think you're trying to explain these differences in a ambivalent way. > > because FA has the concept of application and participation. That is however not equal to dataplane type. > > thanks, > Peter > > >> >> >> Thanks >> Zhibo >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:59 PM >> To: Huzhibo ; Dongjie (Jimmy) >> ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr >> >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Zhibo, >> >> On 11/12/2020 10:39, Huzhibo wrote: >>> Hi Peter: >>> >>> Following this approach, IP and SR Flex-Algo can also be >>> distinguished by using different FA IDs, thus there is no need to >>> treat them as separate applications, and the existing SR FAD TLV can >>> be reused? > My suggestion is to have a clear and consistent rule in >>> FA >> participation, either defining application-specific FA partifcipation for each data plane (IPv4, IPv6, SR-MPLS, SRv6, etc.), or do not define any applications and simply use different FA IDs to distinguish them. >> >> you are mixing data plane consistency with FA participation. Data plane consistency is NOT done in IGPs for regular algo 0 calculation either. >> If you add non MPLS capable router in a middle of your MPLS network your data path is broken and IGPs are not going to help you to find an alternate path avoiding non MPLS capable router. I see no reason to do anything extra in FA case to avoid it. >> >> We have defined SR and IP as different applications for FA for good reason. Participation for IP and SR is signaled independently. I see no reason to do the same for every possible data plane - FA is not a data plane consistency check tool - same way as regular IGPs are not the one for algo 0. >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> Thanks >>> ZHibo >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak >>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:13 PM >>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >>> ; lsr >>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>> >>> Hi Jimmy, >>> >>> On 11/12/2020 09:17, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2020 9:22 PM >>>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >>>>> ; lsr >>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>>>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jimmy, >>>>> >>>>> On 10/12/2020 13:02, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>>>>> In Flex-Algo draft, it says: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Application-specific Flex-Algorithm participation advertisements >>>>>> MAY be >>>>> topology specific or MAY be topology independent, depending on the >>>>> application itself." >>>>>> >>>>>> The preassumption of current IP Flex-Algo participation is that >>>>>> one node >>>>> always participate in a Flex-Algo for both IPv4 and IPv6, and for >>>>> all the topologies it joins. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not saying this does not work, just want to understand the >>>>>> reason of this >>>>> design, and whether some flexibility (e.g. AF specific or topology >>>>> specific) would be useful in some cases. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> this was the choice of authors, because there does not seem to be a >>>>> string reason to do it per topology. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> BTW, a similar case is about SR-MPLS and SRv6 being treated as a >>>>>> single >>>>> application. Below is the discussion quoted from a previous mail on this list: >>>>>> >>>>>> [Jie] OK. While the meaning of "app" here maybe a little >>>>>> vague, are >>>>> SR-MPLS and SRv6 considered the same or different apps? >>>>>> >>>>>> [Peter] These are considered as single app, and share the >>>>>> same >>>>> participation signaling. Please note that SRv6 support is signaled >>>>> independently of FA participation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this imply that for Flex-Algo path computation with SRv6, in >>>>>> addition to >>>>> the Flex-Algo participation information, the SRv6 support >>>>> information of nodes also needs to be considered, so that nodes >>>>> participate in this Flex-Algo but do not support SRv6 will be pruned from the topology? >>>>> >>>>> no. >>>> >>>> Let me elaborate with an example: >>>> >>>> 20 20 >>>> A------B-------C >>>> 10 | 10 | / >>>> | | / 10 >>>> D------E --* >>>> 10 >>>> >>>> (The metrics on the links are delay metric) >>>> >>>> - Flex-Algo 128 is defined to use delay metric for computation. This FAD is application independent, thus can be used by all applications. >>>> >>>> - All of the nodes (A, B, C, D, E) participate in FA 128. >>>> >>>> - Node A, B, C, D support both SR-MPLS and SRv6. >>>> >>>> - Node E support SR-MPLS only, it may support IPv6. >>>> >>>> Then node A computes the path to node C with FA 128. According to the computation rules of FA 128, the path would be A-D-E-C. This path can be used to send SR-MPLS packet to node C. >>>> >>>> But if node A sends SRv6 packets with node C's SRv6 SID in FA 128 as the destination address, when the packet arrives at E, it will be dropped, because node E does not have the forwarding entry for C's SRv6 SID in FA 128. >>>> >>>> Do you think this is a problem? >>>> >>>> IMO this problem is due to the FA calculation is based on the combination of the constraints in FA definition, and the nodes' FA participation (which is app specific), while since SR-MPLS and SRv6 are treated as one single application, the difference in supporting SR-MPLS or SRv6 is not considered in FA calculation. This is why I asked whether the SRv6 support information also need be considered in FA calculation. >>>> >>>> To solve this problem, there are several options: >>>> >>>> Option 1: Define two different Flex-Algos for delay metric computation, one for SR-MPLS, the other one for SRv6. But this makes the FAD application dependent. >>> >>> Option 1 is the right one, given the way things are defined. And honestly I do not see a need to change it. >>> >>> >>>> Option 2: Include the SR-MPLS or SRv6 information in Flex-Algo participation, i.e. make SR-MPLS and SRv6 separate applications. >>> >>> Theoretically you can make SR MPLS and SRv6 a different applications >>> using FA. Given the SR nature of both we intentionally kept them as a >>> single app from FA perspective. >>> >>>> Option 3: Also consider the SRv6 (or SR-MPLS) capability information in FA calculation. >>> >>> no. This is not being done for algo 0 either and it has nothing to do >>> with FA. >>> >>> thanks, >>> Peter >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Or do you have other options in mind? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Jie >>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If so, IMO this needs to be specified in the Flex-Algo draft. If >>>>>> not, please >>>>> clarify how to prune the nodes which participate in the same >>>>> Flex-Algo for SR-MPLS only? Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Jie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Lsr mailing list >>> Lsr@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From nobody Fri Dec 11 09:46:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC103A0D3D; Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:46:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=IKN0noi4; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgTHNyIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIExzckBpZXRmLm9yZw0KICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHNyDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Dec 14 11:25:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C1B3A17D3; Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:25:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160797393247.28705.3964758636666102483@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 11:25:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-08.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 19:25:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs Authors : Tony Li Peter Psenak Les Ginsberg Huaimo Chen Tony Przygienda Dave Cooper Luay Jalil Srinath Dontula Gyan S. Mishra Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-08.txt Pages : 47 Date : 2020-12-14 Abstract: Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead associated with flooding. This can be addressed by decreasing the flooding topology so that it is less dense. This document discusses the problem in some depth and an architectural solution. Specific protocol changes for IS-IS, OSPFv2, and OSPFv3 are described in this document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 15 19:44:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E873A0E60; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 19:44:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u1vKW78b0nys; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 19:44:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 939513A0E59; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 19:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 9FF1047F40; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:44:31 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Jeff Tantsura'" , "'Yingzhen Qu'" , , , "'Linda Dunbar'" References: <9af88324-b117-4272-b21d-29002f9183fd@Spark> <75281559-0A10-4F81-B358-AAE2CBA0DE2B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <75281559-0A10-4F81-B358-AAE2CBA0DE2B@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 11:44:31 +0800 Message-ID: <000901d6d35d$c35e3a40$4a1aaec0$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01D6D3A0.D1843960" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQD2J7U/Llv21jdkogB4O2EIjUtqHQNgqO6mAg0tJwerjve6cA== Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZTxpNS0hPSE5JSkxNVkpNS0NLQktJTElLS09VEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6Kww6Djo4DT8KIikKMjQ4OU9O Nx8KCjpVSlVKTUtDS0JLSUxJT0JDVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQU1MSUxONwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a7669a6407a9865kuuu9ff1047f40 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 03:44:42 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D6D3A0.D1843960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Acee and Linda: =20 The mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links = that connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the = app server. For example, the =E2=80=9CCapacity Index=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CPreference = Index=E2=80=9D are all related to the site, not the prefix.=20 And, for =E2=80=9CLoad Measurement=E2=80=9D, it is not enough to detect = only the load to the server, but omits the load status of the link that = connected the servers. We should also considering the future possible extension, such as the = bandwidth reservation on these links to the App server etc. =20 In conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable = than to the prefix. Such links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the = network. =20 =20 Best Regards =20 Aijun Wang China Telecom =20 From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Acee = Lindem (acee) Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM To: Jeff Tantsura ; Yingzhen Qu = ; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda = Dunbar Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the = OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests =20 Exactly.=20 Thanks, Acee =20 From: Jeff Tantsura > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM To: Acee Lindem >, Yingzhen Qu = >, = "lsr@ietf.org " >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org = " >, Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the = OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests =20 For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362) =20 Cheers,=20 Jeff On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar >, wrote: Acee, =20 Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the = Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. =20 In a nutshell, the = = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex= t/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that = are used to represent the Running Status and Environment information of = the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router: =20 =E2=80=A2 Load measurement sub-TLV=20 =E2=80=A2 Capacity Index Sub-TLV =20 =E2=80=A2 Preference Index Sub-TLV = =20 =20 Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those = measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have = made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush. =20 The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the = router=E2=80=99s LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local = Data Network. =20 If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the = extension does seem easier and cleaner: =20 We can have: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type | Length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Route Type | Prefix Length | AF | Flags | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Address Prefix (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20 | Load Measurement Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20 | capacity Index Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20 | Site Preference Sub-TLV | ~ ~ =20 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20 =20 =20 RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server = addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the = same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? =20 Your guidance is greatly appreciated. =20 Thank you very much. =20 Linda Dunbar =20 =20 From: Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM To: Linda Dunbar >; Yingzhen Qu = >; = lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org = =20 Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge = Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests =20 We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look = at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization = requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. = It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 = minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t have time to discuss the = many issues. =20 One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC = 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be = associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application = server address). =20 I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. =20 Thanks, Acee =20 From: Linda Dunbar < = linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM To: Yingzhen Qu < = yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, " lsr@ietf.org" < = lsr@ietf.org>, " = lsr-chairs@ietf.org" < lsr-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge = Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Resent-From: < alias-bounces@ietf.org> Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu < = yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem < = acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps < = chopps@chopps.org> Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM =20 LSR Chairs, YingZhen, =20 Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ex= t/ = =20 =20 This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge = Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in = the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing = forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and = performance for 5G Edge Computing services. =20 Thank you very much, =20 Linda Dunbar =20 From: Lsr > On = Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM To: lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org = =20 Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests =20 Hi all,=20 =20 We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting = IETF 109. Please send your requests to = lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration = (covering presentation and discussion).=20 =20 LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT. =20 Thanks, Yingzhen _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D6D3A0.D1843960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

H= i, Acee and Linda:

<= o:p> 

T= he mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links = that connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the = app server.

F= or example, the =E2=80=9CCapacity Index=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9CPreference = Index=E2=80=9D are all related to the site, not the prefix. =

A= nd, for =E2=80=9CLoad Measurement=E2=80=9D, it is not enough to detect = only the load to the server, but omits the load status of the link that = connected the servers.

W= e should also considering the future possible extension, such as the = bandwidth reservation on these links to the App server = etc.

<= o:p> 

I= n conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable = than to the prefix.

S= uch links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the = network.

<= o:p> 

<= o:p> 

B= est Regards

<= o:p> 

A= ijun Wang

C= hina Telecom<= o:p>

<= o:p> 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem = (acee)
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM
To: = Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; = Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Subject: Re: = [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension = for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

Exactly.

Thanks,
Acee

 

From: = Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee = Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, = Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, = "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Linda = Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended = Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 = LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs = (RFC8362)

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >, wrote:

Acee,

 

Thank you very much for = suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and = environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

 

In a nutshell, = the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-o= spf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA = that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running = Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers = attached to the router:

 

 =E2=80=A2 Load measurement = sub-TLV 

 =E2=80=A2 Capacity = Index  Sub-TLV             =                

 =E2=80=A2 Preference = Index  Sub-TLV              =                     =                 =  

 

Several sections of the = draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need = them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so = straightforward when reading in a rush.

 

The Goal of the OSPF = extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router=E2=80=99s LSA to be = advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.

 

If using your suggested = RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and = cleaner:

 

We can = have:

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 = 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Type                   =        | Length         =                |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF     =        | Flags        =  |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Address Prefix (variable)            =                     =      |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| Load = Measurement Sub-TLV             =                     =      |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| = capacity Index Sub-TLV             =                     =        |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| Site = Preference Sub-TLV              =                     =      |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~  

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

 

 

RFC7684 only has the = Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, = should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define = a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

 

Your guidance is = greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you very = much.

 

Linda = Dunbar

 

 

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>

Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 = PM

To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; = lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for = 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. = I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with = standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions = partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list = discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn=E2=80=99t = have time to discuss the many = issues.

 

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 = rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics = should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the = application server = address).

 

I=E2=80=99ll try to read it in more depth before IETF = 109.

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

F= rom: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>

D= ate: Monday, November 2, 2020 at = 10:12 PM

T= o: Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, = "lsr@ietf.org" = <lsr@ietf.org>, = "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" = <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>

S= ubject: Need 10 minute slot to = discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR = Presentation Slot Requests

R= esent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>

R= esent-To: Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem = <acee@cisco.com>, Christian = Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>

R= esent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at = 10:12 PM

 

LSR Chairs, = YingZhen,

 

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new = draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-ed= ge-compute-ospf-ext/

 

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute = the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other = routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on = optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency = and performance for 5G Edge Computing = services.

 

Thank you very = much,

 

Linda Dunbar

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Yingzhen = Qu

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 = PM

To: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

Hi all, 

 

We're now accepting agenda requests for the = LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests = to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and = desired duration (covering presentation and = discussion). 

 

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, = 12:00-14:00 ICT.

 

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing = list

Lsr@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/lsr

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D6D3A0.D1843960-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 04:12:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FEA3A0A42; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 04:12:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ladislav Lhotka via Datatracker To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160812077773.23729.6946762665789150965@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Ladislav Lhotka Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 04:12:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 12:12:58 -0000 Reviewer: Ladislav Lhotka Review result: Ready with Issues **** General comments - YANG module "ietf-isis-reverse-metric" is in a good shape except for one issue described below. - I appreciate the three examples of instance data in appendices (two in XML representation, one in JSON). **** Specific comments - In three places, the module uses "when" expressions with plain string equality test applied to identityref values, such as: when "../rt:type = 'isis:isis'" This is known to be fragile, which can demonstrated on the JSON example in appendix A.3: It has "type": "ietf-isis:isis" which makes the "when" expression false because of the different prefix, and the corresponding augment doesn't happen. The above "when" expression should use the XPath function "derived-from-or-self" that is defined in RFC 7950: when "derived-from-or-self(../rt:type, 'isis:isis')" - The "tlv16-reverse-metric" grouping is used only once in the module. Unless it is expected to be used elsewhere, I would recommend to remove this grouping and use its contents directly. - The phrase "YANG XML data" is somewhat misleading, although it is probably often used in informal discussions. I would suggest "XML instance data" instead. **** Nits - Abstract & Introduction: s/routeing/routing/ - Appending A.3: s/YANG XML data/JSON instance data/ From nobody Wed Dec 16 05:13:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747043A0AEE; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 05:13:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=cNWBJN3p; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=RTSYN0N5 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dlIrSBz7e0St; 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Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:08:43 +0000 From: Linda Dunbar To: Aijun Wang , "'Acee Lindem (acee)'" , 'Jeff Tantsura' , 'Yingzhen Qu' , "lsr@ietf.org" , "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Thread-Index: AQHWswB43kUsMgmtNkiE9WFHO6oxbKm4sxEAgECic4CAAX4pEA== Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:08:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9af88324-b117-4272-b21d-29002f9183fd@Spark> <75281559-0A10-4F81-B358-AAE2CBA0DE2B@cisco.com> <000901d6d35d$c35e3a40$4a1aaec0$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: <000901d6d35d$c35e3a40$4a1aaec0$@tsinghua.org.cn> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: tsinghua.org.cn; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;tsinghua.org.cn; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [72.180.73.64] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: beacaf1f-d8d5-4dca-b9ca-08d8a2390fcb x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR13MB2508: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR13MB23300D17F3853DEBEBA86C9785C40DM6PR13MB2330namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR13MB2330.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: beacaf1f-d8d5-4dca-b9ca-08d8a2390fcb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Dec 2020 03:08:43.3760 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pRfaPywfFzhQaHCW4fPgMKywO78rJDONu46wSie0oH3VBkEyOyGU6VH4WYALn568Q9oU72For+npF/biusKk8w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR13MB2508 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:08:50 -0000 --_000_DM6PR13MB23300D17F3853DEBEBA86C9785C40DM6PR13MB2330namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aijun, Thank you for the analysis and suggestions. The draft specified 3 Sub-TLVs to carry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App S= erver Running Status: Load Measurement; Capacity Index; and Preference Inde= x. More may be added in the future, especially when there are more informat= ion about UEs and their flows that can be passed from 5G Network Exposure F= unctions. Let's consider two different scenarios: Scenario 1: All the Egress routers to which the App Servers are attached can be configu= red with a consistent algorithm to compute an aggregated cost that take int= o consideration of Load Measurement, Capacity value and Preference value. T= hen this aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metric field [the interface = cost] of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for IPv6 [ RFC5340], or encoded in the "Me= tric" field of the Stub Link LSA [Link type =3D3] [RFC2328] for IPv4. In this scenario, there is no protocol extension needed, but requires all e= gress routers to agree upon a consistent algorithm to compute the cost to t= he App server (Prefix) Scenario 2: Either it is not possible for all the egress routers to have a consistent a= lgorithm to compute the aggregated cost, or the ingress routers need all th= e detailed IP Layer metrics for the App Servers for other purposes. Then, t= he IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server running status need to be encoded i= n LSAs to other nodes. Under this scenario, it makes sense to use the OSPFv= 2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv3 Extended LSA with Intra-Ar= ea-Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the draft, so that= nodes that don't care about those metrics can ignore them very easily. For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA or OSPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving= nodes, who care about the information, have to adjust path compute engine = anyway to derive the lowest cost path that takes the IP Layer Metrics into = consideration. Do you agree with this approach? We will revise the draft to reflect those two different scenarios. Linda From: Aijun Wang Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' ; 'Jeff Tantsur= a' ; 'Yingzhen Qu' ; lsr@= ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Hi, Acee and Linda: The mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links that = connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the app server= . For example, the "Capacity Index", "Preference Index" are all related to th= e site, not the prefix. And, for "Load Measurement", it is not enough to detect only the load to th= e server, but omits the load status of the link that connected the servers. We should also considering the future possible extension, such as the bandw= idth reservation on these links to the App server etc. In conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable th= an to the prefix. Such links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the net= work. Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM To: Jeff Tantsura >= ; Yingzhen Qu >; ls= r@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Exactly. Thanks, Acee From: Jeff Tantsura > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM To: Acee Lindem >, Yingzhen Qu >, "lsr@ietf.org" >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" >= , Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362) Cheers, Jeff On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar >, wrote: Acee, Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Runni= ng Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. In a nutshell, the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edg= e-compute-ospf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the th= ree SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and Environment i= nformation of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router: * Load measurement sub-TLV * Capacity Index Sub-TLV * Preference Index Sub-TLV Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those measuremen= t are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not s= o straightforward when reading in a rush. The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router's L= SA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension d= oes seem easier and cleaner: We can have: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type | Length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Route Type | Prefix Length | AF | Flags | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Address Prefix (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Load Measurement Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | capacity Index Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Site Preference Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addres= ses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same dra= ft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? Your guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar From: Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM To: Linda Dunbar >; Yingzhen Qu = >; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Comp= uting (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look at= the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization requ= ested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. It cou= ld benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 minute presen= tation where we wouldn't have time to discuss the many issues. One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC 36= 30 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be associated= with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application server address). I'll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. Thanks, Acee From: Linda Dunbar > Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM To: Yingzhen Qu >, = "lsr@ietf.org" >, "l= sr-chairs@ietf.org" > Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computin= g (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Resent-From: > Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu >, Acee Lindem >, Christian Hopps= > Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM LSR Chairs, YingZhen, Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/= This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge Comp= uting App running status and environment, so that other routers in the 5G L= ocal Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of= flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge= Computing services. Thank you very much, Linda Dunbar From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Yingzhen Qu Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM To: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Hi all, We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting IE= TF 109. Please send your requests to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering pr= esentation and discussion). LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT. Thanks, Yingzhen _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_DM6PR13MB23300D17F3853DEBEBA86C9785C40DM6PR13MB2330namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Aijun, <= /span>

 

Thank you for the a= nalysis and suggestions.

 

The draft specified= 3 Sub-TLVs to carry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server Running Statu= s: Load Measurement; Capacity Index; and Preference Index. More may be adde= d in the future, especially when there are more information about UEs and their flows that can be passed from 5G = Network Exposure Functions.

 

Let’s conside= r two different scenarios:

Scenario 1:

All the Egre= ss routers to which the App Servers are attached can be configured with a c= onsistent algorithm to compute an aggregated cost that take into considerat= ion of Load Measurement, Capacity value and Preference value. Then this aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metr= ic field [the interface cost] of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for  IPv6 [ RFC= 5340], or  encoded in the “Metric” field of the Stub Link = LSA [Link type =3D3] [RFC2328] for IPv4.

In this scen= ario, there is no protocol extension needed, but requires all egress router= s to agree upon a consistent algorithm to compute the cost to the App serve= r (Prefix)

 <= /o:p>

Scenario 2:

Either it is= not possible for all the egress routers to have a consistent algorithm to = compute the aggregated cost, or the ingress routers need all the detailed I= P Layer metrics for the App Servers for other purposes. Then, the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server running= status need to be encoded in LSAs to other nodes. Under this scenario, it = makes sense to use the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv= 3 Extended LSA with Intra-Area-Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the draft, so that nodes th= at don’t care about those metrics can ignore them very easily.

 <= /o:p>

For OSPFv2 E= xtended Prefix Opaque LSA or OSPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving nodes, who = care about the information, have to adjust path compute engine anyway to de= rive the lowest cost path that takes the IP Layer Metrics into consideration.

 

Do you agree with t= his approach?

 

We will revise the = draft to reflect those two different scenarios.

 

 

Linda

 

 

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.c= n>
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; = 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen= .ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar <li= nda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Hi, Acee and Linda:

 

The mentioned information in this draft are more related to= the links that connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix o= f the app server.

For example, the “Capacity Index̶= 1;, “Preference Index” are all r= elated to the site, not the prefix.

And, for “Load Measurement= 221;, it is not enough to detect only the load to the server, but om= its the load status of the link that connected the servers.

We should also considering the future possible extension, s= uch as the bandwidth reservation on these links to the App server etc.=

 

In conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is mo= re reasonable than to the prefix.

Such links are another typical use case of passive/stub lin= k within the network.

 

 

Best Regards=

 

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jef= ftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Exactly.

Thanks,
Acee

 

From: Jeff Tantsura <<= a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com= >, Yingzhen Qu <yingzh= en.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.o= rg" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org"= <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Li= nda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@f= uturewei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362)

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, wrote:

Acee,<= /o:p>

 =

Thank you very muc= h for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and envi= ronment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

 =

In a nutshell, the=  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-d= unbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to rep= resent the Running Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Comput= ing Servers attached to the router:

 =

 • Load measurement sub-TLV 

 • Capacity Index  Sub-TLV           =                  <= /o:p>

 • Preference Index  Sub-TLV          &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                  <= o:p>

 =

Several sections o= f the draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need= them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.

 =

The Goal of the OS= PF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router’s LSA to be adv= ertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.

 =

If using your sugg= ested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier an= d cleaner:

 =

We can have:

&= nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Type                   &= nbsp;      | Length           =              |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF      = ;      | Flags         |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Address Prefix (variable)              =                      = ;  |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= Load Measurement Sub-TLV             &n= bsp;                     =    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~<= /span>

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= capacity Index Sub-TLV             &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~<= /span>

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= Site Preference Sub-TLV              &n= bsp;                     =    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~&= nbsp; 

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

RFC7684 only has t= he Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, s= hould we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

&= nbsp;

Your guidance is g= reatly appreciated.

 =

Thank you very muc= h.

 =

Linda Dunbar

 =

 

Fro= m: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>

Sen= t: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM

To:=  Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Sub= ject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extensio= n for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a lo= ok at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization= requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list = discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn’t have t= ime to discuss the many issues.

 

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than R= FC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be assoc= iated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application server address).

 

I’ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.= dunbar@futurewei.com>

Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.iet= f@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ie= tf.org>

Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentat= ion Slot Requests

Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ie= tf.org>

Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu <yingz= hen.ietf@gmail.com&= gt;, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <= chopps@chopps.org&g= t;

Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

 

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,

 

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/

 

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge= Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in the= 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improv= e latency and performance for 5G Edge Computing services.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Linda Dunbar

 

Fro= m: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu

Sen= t: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To:=  lsr= @ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Sub= ject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

Hi all, 

 

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meetin= g IETF 109. Please send your requests to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and discu= ssion). 

 

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

 

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

Lsr@ietf.org

ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

--_000_DM6PR13MB23300D17F3853DEBEBA86C9785C40DM6PR13MB2330namp_-- From nobody Wed Dec 16 22:38:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDE93A14F0; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 22:38:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1nNS2CuviyLI; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 22:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (mail-m127101.qiye.163.com [115.236.127.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79D1B3A14DA; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 22:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from DESKTOP2IOH5QC (unknown [219.142.69.75]) by mail-m127101.qiye.163.com (Hmail) with ESMTPA id 6B5CB4814D; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 14:38:07 +0800 (CST) From: "Aijun Wang" To: "'Linda Dunbar'" , "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" , "'Jeff Tantsura'" , "'Yingzhen Qu'" , , References: <9af88324-b117-4272-b21d-29002f9183fd@Spark> <75281559-0A10-4F81-B358-AAE2CBA0DE2B@cisco.com> <000901d6d35d$c35e3a40$4a1aaec0$@tsinghua.org.cn> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 14:38:05 +0800 Message-ID: <006e01d6d43f$2d6ffb30$884ff190$@tsinghua.org.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006F_01D6D482.3B9AB540" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQD2J7U/Llv21jdkogB4O2EIjUtqHQNgqO6mAg0tJwcCW41bzgF187+Sq3IyfPA= Content-Language: zh-cn X-HM-Spam-Status: e1kfGhgUHx5ZQUtXWQgYFAkeWUFZS1VLWVdZKFlBSkxLS0o3V1ktWUFJV1 kPCRoVCBIfWUFZSB0dQ0pKTB8ZGkNNVkpNS0NKQ0xLQ0xDTklVEwETFhoSFyQUDg9ZV1kWGg8SFR 0UWUFZT0tIVUpKS09ISFVLWQY+ X-HM-Sender-Digest: e1kMHhlZQR0aFwgeV1kSHx4VD1lBWUc6MDo6Pxw*Az8IFC9JFTBNFSMc SCFPCTpVSlVKTUtDSkNMS0NDT09LVTMWGhIXVQwaFRwaEhEOFTsPCBIVHBMOGlUUCRxVGBVFWVdZ EgtZQVlJSkJVSk9JVU1CVUxOWVdZCAFZQUNOT0pLNwY+ X-HM-Tid: 0a766f6b8b2c9865kuuu6b5cb4814d Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 06:38:22 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01D6D482.3B9AB540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Linda: Scenario 1 is straightforward and is the local decision of the router. Do we need the draft then? For scenario 2, I am considering where is the right place to place such information. The consideration in my previous mail is not addressed. It seems RFC8362 does not illustrate which "OSPFv3 Extended-LSA Sub-TLVs" (https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv3-parameters/ospfv3-parameters.xhtml# extended-lsa-sub-tlvs) should be put into which "OSPFv3 Extended-LSA TLVs"? Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:09 AM To: Aijun Wang ; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' ; 'Jeff Tantsura' ; 'Yingzhen Qu' ; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Aijun, Thank you for the analysis and suggestions. The draft specified 3 Sub-TLVs to carry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server Running Status: Load Measurement; Capacity Index; and Preference Index. More may be added in the future, especially when there are more information about UEs and their flows that can be passed from 5G Network Exposure Functions. Let's consider two different scenarios: Scenario 1: All the Egress routers to which the App Servers are attached can be configured with a consistent algorithm to compute an aggregated cost that take into consideration of Load Measurement, Capacity value and Preference value. Then this aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metric field [the interface cost] of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for IPv6 [ RFC5340], or encoded in the "Metric" field of the Stub Link LSA [Link type =3] [RFC2328] for IPv4. In this scenario, there is no protocol extension needed, but requires all egress routers to agree upon a consistent algorithm to compute the cost to the App server (Prefix) Scenario 2: Either it is not possible for all the egress routers to have a consistent algorithm to compute the aggregated cost, or the ingress routers need all the detailed IP Layer metrics for the App Servers for other purposes. Then, the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server running status need to be encoded in LSAs to other nodes. Under this scenario, it makes sense to use the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv3 Extended LSA with Intra-Area-Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the draft, so that nodes that don't care about those metrics can ignore them very easily. For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA or OSPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving nodes, who care about the information, have to adjust path compute engine anyway to derive the lowest cost path that takes the IP Layer Metrics into consideration. Do you agree with this approach? We will revise the draft to reflect those two different scenarios. Linda From: Aijun Wang > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' >; 'Jeff Tantsura' >; 'Yingzhen Qu' >; lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org ; Linda Dunbar > Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Hi, Acee and Linda: The mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links that connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the app server. For example, the "Capacity Index", "Preference Index" are all related to the site, not the prefix. And, for "Load Measurement", it is not enough to detect only the load to the server, but omits the load status of the link that connected the servers. We should also considering the future possible extension, such as the bandwidth reservation on these links to the App server etc. In conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable than to the prefix. Such links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the network. Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM To: Jeff Tantsura >; Yingzhen Qu >; lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org ; Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Exactly. Thanks, Acee From: Jeff Tantsura > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM To: Acee Lindem >, Yingzhen Qu >, "lsr@ietf.org " >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org " >, Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362) Cheers, Jeff On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar >, wrote: Acee, Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. In a nutshell, the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router: . Load measurement sub-TLV . Capacity Index Sub-TLV . Preference Index Sub-TLV Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush. The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router's LSA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and cleaner: We can have: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type | Length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Route Type | Prefix Length | AF | Flags | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Address Prefix (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Load Measurement Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | capacity Index Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Site Preference Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? Your guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar From: Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM To: Linda Dunbar >; Yingzhen Qu >; lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn't have time to discuss the many issues. One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application server address). I'll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. Thanks, Acee From: Linda Dunbar < linda.dunbar@futurewei.com> Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM To: Yingzhen Qu < yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, " lsr@ietf.org" < lsr@ietf.org>, " lsr-chairs@ietf.org" < lsr-chairs@ietf.org> Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Resent-From: < alias-bounces@ietf.org> Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu < yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem < acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps < chopps@chopps.org> Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM LSR Chairs, YingZhen, Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/ This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge Computing services. Thank you very much, Linda Dunbar From: Lsr > On Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM To: lsr@ietf.org ; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Hi all, We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and discussion). LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT. Thanks, Yingzhen _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01D6D482.3B9AB540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, = Linda:

 =

Scenario 1 = is straightforward and is the local decision of the router. Do we need = the draft then?

For = scenario 2, I am considering where is the right place to place such = information. The consideration in my previous mail is not = addressed.

It seems = RFC8362 does not illustrate which “OSPFv3 Extended-LSA = Sub-TLVs” (https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv3-= parameters/ospfv3-parameters.xhtml#extended-lsa-sub-tlvs) should be = put into which “OSPFv3 Extended-LSA TLVs”? =

 =

 =

Best = Regards

 =

Aijun = Wang

China = Telecom=

 =

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org = <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Linda = Dunbar
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:09 = AM
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee = Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; 'Jeff = Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; = lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using = OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing = (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

Aijun,

 

Thank you for the analysis and = suggestions.

 

The draft specified 3 Sub-TLVs = to carry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server Running Status: Load = Measurement; Capacity Index; and Preference Index. More may be added in = the future, especially when there are more information about UEs and = their flows that can be passed from 5G Network Exposure Functions. =

 

Let’s consider two = different scenarios:

Scenario 1:

All the Egress routers to which = the App Servers are attached can be configured with a consistent = algorithm to compute an aggregated cost that take into consideration of = Load Measurement, Capacity value and Preference value. Then this = aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metric field [the interface cost] = of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for  IPv6 [ RFC5340], or  encoded in = the “Metric” field of the Stub Link LSA [Link type =3D3] = [RFC2328] for IPv4.

In this scenario, there is no = protocol extension needed, but requires all egress routers to agree upon = a consistent algorithm to compute the cost to the App server = (Prefix)

 

Scenario 2: =

Either it is not possible for = all the egress routers to have a consistent algorithm to compute the = aggregated cost, or the ingress routers need all the detailed IP Layer = metrics for the App Servers for other purposes. Then, the IP Layer = Metrics to Gauge App Server running status need to be encoded in LSAs to = other nodes. Under this scenario, it makes sense to use the OSPFv2 = Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv3 Extended LSA with = Intra-Area-Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the = draft, so that nodes that don’t care about those metrics can = ignore them very easily.

 

For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix = Opaque LSA or OSPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving nodes, who care about = the information, have to adjust path compute engine anyway to derive the = lowest cost path that takes the IP Layer Metrics into consideration. =

 

Do you agree with this approach? =

 

We will revise the draft to = reflect those two different scenarios.

 

 

Linda

 

 

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn&g= t;
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM
To: = 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; = 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; = lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda = Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended = Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 = LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

Hi, Acee = and Linda:

 =

The = mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links that = connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the app = server.

For = example, the “Capacity Index”, = “Preference Index” are all related to the site, not the prefix. =

And, for = “Load Measurement”, it is = not enough to detect only the load to the server, but omits the load = status of the link that connected the = servers.

We should = also considering the future possible extension, such as the bandwidth = reservation on these links to the App server = etc.

 =

In = conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable = than to the prefix.

Such links = are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the = network.

 =

 =

Best = Regards

 =

Aijun = Wang

China = Telecom

 =

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Thursday, November 5, = 2020 8:42 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; = Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; = lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda = Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended = Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 = LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

Exactly.

Thanks,
Acee

 

From: = Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee = Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, = Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, = "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Linda = Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended = Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 = LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs = (RFC8362)

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >, wrote:

Acee,

 

Thank you very much for = suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and = environment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

 

In a nutshell, = the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-o= spf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA = that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running = Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers = attached to the router:

 

 • Load measurement = sub-TLV 

 • Capacity = Index  Sub-TLV             =                

 • Preference = Index  Sub-TLV              =                     =                 =  

 

Several sections of the = draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need = them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so = straightforward when reading in a rush.

 

The Goal of the OSPF = extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router’s LSA to be = advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.

 

If using your suggested = RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier and = cleaner:

 

We can = have:

 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 = 0 1

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Type                   =        | Length         =                |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF     =        | Flags        =  |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

| = Address Prefix (variable)            =                     =      |

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| Load = Measurement Sub-TLV             =                     =      |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| = capacity Index Sub-TLV             =                     =        |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

| Site = Preference Sub-TLV              =                     =      |

~                  =                     =                     =      ~  

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+&n= bsp; 

 

 

RFC7684 only has the = Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, = should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define = a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

 

Your guidance is = greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you very = much.

 

Linda = Dunbar

 

 

From: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>

Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 = PM

To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com= >; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; = lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for = 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. = I took a look at the draft and it is all over the place right now with = standardization requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions = partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list = discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn’t = have time to discuss the many = issues.

 

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 = rather than RFC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics = should be associated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the = application server = address).

 

I’ll try to read it in more depth before IETF = 109.

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

F= rom: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>

D= ate: Monday, November 2, 2020 at = 10:12 PM

T= o: Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, = "lsr@ietf.org" = <lsr@ietf.org>, = "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" = <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>

S= ubject: Need 10 minute slot to = discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR = Presentation Slot Requests

R= esent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org>

R= esent-To: Yingzhen Qu = <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>, Acee Lindem = <acee@cisco.com>, Christian = Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>

R= esent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at = 10:12 PM

 

LSR Chairs, = YingZhen,

 

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new = draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-ed= ge-compute-ospf-ext/

 

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute = the 5G Edge Computing App running status and environment, so that other = routers in the 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on = optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency = and performance for 5G Edge Computing = services.

 

Thank you very = much,

 

Linda Dunbar

 

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Yingzhen = Qu

Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 = PM

To: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot = Requests

 

Hi all, 

 

We're now accepting agenda requests for the = LSR Working Grouping meeting IETF 109. Please send your requests = to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and = desired duration (covering presentation and = discussion). 

 

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, = 12:00-14:00 ICT.

 

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing = list

Lsr@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.343, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-12-18_10:2020-12-18, 2020-12-18 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 16:23:51 -0000 --_000_1BC30D88F77E44C2949C75622B60825Fcienacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVsbG8sDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIHNlbGVjdGVkIGFzIHRoZSBSb3V0aW5nIERpcmVjdG9yYXRl IHJldmlld2VyIGZvciB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LiBUaGUgUm91dGluZyBEaXJlY3RvcmF0ZSBzZWVrcyB0 byByZXZpZXcgYWxsIHJvdXRpbmcgb3Igcm91dGluZy1yZWxhdGVkIGRyYWZ0cyBhcyB0aGV5IHBh c3MgdGhyb3VnaCBJRVRGIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBhbmQgSUVTRyByZXZpZXcsIGFuZCBzb21ldGltZXMg b24gc3BlY2lhbCByZXF1ZXN0LiBUaGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiB0aGUgcmV2aWV3IGlzIHRvIHByb3Zp 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 5828B3A0B36; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:56:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christian Hopps via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Christian Hopps , chopps@chopps.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160831417134.12230.17609608163711796712@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:56:11 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-07 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 17:56:12 -0000 Christian Hopps has requested publication of draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator-07 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the LSR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-prefix-originator/ From nobody Fri Dec 18 10:37:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F36D3A0BA4; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:37:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y83oqwPZyPWo; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CD83A0B92; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 60A3C6092B; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 18:37:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <1FEE65FE-A0CE-405D-A584-DEB9AA43205B@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84BB079F-F251-4B7D-A05C-E7BB39FC0DD8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 13:37:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: <160812077773.23729.6946762665789150965@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Christian Hopps , yang-doctors@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org, draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric.all@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <160812077773.23729.6946762665789150965@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] [Last-Call] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 18:37:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84BB079F-F251-4B7D-A05C-E7BB39FC0DD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Dec 16, 2020, at 7:12 AM, Ladislav Lhotka via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Ladislav Lhotka > Review result: Ready with Issues >=20 > **** General comments >=20 > - YANG module "ietf-isis-reverse-metric" is in a good shape except for > one issue described below. > - I appreciate the three examples of instance data in appendices (two > in XML representation, one in JSON). >=20 > **** Specific comments >=20 > - In three places, the module uses "when" expressions with plain > string equality test applied to identityref values, such as: >=20 > when "../rt:type =3D 'isis:isis'" >=20 > This is known to be fragile, which can demonstrated on the JSON > example in appendix A.3: It has >=20 > "type": "ietf-isis:isis" >=20 > which makes the "when" expression false because of the different > prefix, and the corresponding augment doesn't happen. >=20 > The above "when" expression should use the XPath function > "derived-from-or-self" that is defined in RFC 7950: >=20 > when "derived-from-or-self(../rt:type, 'isis:isis')" Will change. >=20 > - The "tlv16-reverse-metric" grouping is used only once in the > module. Unless it is expected to be used elsewhere, I would > recommend to remove this grouping and use its contents directly. As this was describing TLV data I figured it might be useful to other = modules that work with TLVs. >=20 > - The phrase "YANG XML data" is somewhat misleading, although it is > probably often used in informal discussions. I would suggest "XML > instance data" instead. Updated. >=20 > **** Nits >=20 > - Abstract & Introduction: s/routeing/routing/ I'm actually taking that from the standard which names the protocol. :) >=20 > - Appending A.3: s/YANG XML data/JSON instance data/ Fixed. Thanks, Chris. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > last-call mailing list > last-call@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call >=20 --Apple-Mail=_84BB079F-F251-4B7D-A05C-E7BB39FC0DD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAl/c9swACgkQLh2DDte4 MCWtWQ/+LE9EJB/cnCocNqzJtfGBC3MVjsVDQWVvxPldAIxtVOQyzuovSKdvAHFS xqytXpwPBxut0P3XCGjgmqDE6td2Jih2WgYBS4kzsLT3NHF8MquKYZcxsr9NnyoP FJIEHtky2A/HXwGq6DSsKf+83lxnNXQktsrUfqXkz1KpV828DtsjY0ZLlOXqrQeP siv+E3KOGxGiRO1WdJr4c2VttfY6XBI1YHjHA5Z8HD6jED3McHsACrmFQCuB/XXh yZYhEsYaOMRZ/sTvybELpIGLllDRaRyyfEi13atjPh7LtwomVq0Hmu41mTKo2qPf 4W4Sv2ScYx194gvAxhk0MQtBkZsUXM1VoJT9PlcGjDvpxrsImufct+n8yl8KLh0M +mWhCLwbDSt+NcJpxQq1FTUQPq1c1hs9Us406lTcSk57PLfuACkYAqHLWoqNxIRL Nl9s1xVpf4jiDCmEiGMGDZyLnTI2w1hEGZAqPGn8b4Y4m+Js66TIho0WUXBnp6Ys fT+McfTsC+eSCx4si9sLtceTcrVSZbkCA8YVQZRL1qp0JawjaDIjeP5Zlafnf/oF e7wdVGPkKIxH72SQjkvf9jThlOxG0xO3L6K0aIhGIOEti8d96QaJDAjJgUfOQj40 iKDtqCKxJ3LrrYcJ5QEj9DsfiCgq3yrixmAhurH7pWy5i6h2yiQ= =tToj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_84BB079F-F251-4B7D-A05C-E7BB39FC0DD8-- From nobody Fri Dec 18 10:43:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03B7A3A0C59; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:43:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160831703194.6318.8353821746773453145@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 10:43:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 18:43:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Module for IS-IS Reverse Metric Author : Christian Hopps Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-02.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2020-12-18 Abstract: This document defines a YANG module for managing the reverse metric extension to the the intermediate system to intermediate system routeing protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-02.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-yang-isis-reverse-metric-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 18 14:20:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9C83A0A3E; Fri, 18 Dec 2020 14:20:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tM9Tfjmc0Vyj; 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boundary="_000_DM6PR13MB2330ABE87702391BDCC1664885C30DM6PR13MB2330namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR13MB2330.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f958d7cd-fc83-4745-9589-08d8a3a326c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2020 22:20:39.7428 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gOM1OIoVsLJtclG8bX8hkBOmOOAwdQLuhSfMp6fi6uh8Iy30ZYYp6XStVEZoQgatxTiVWkgFesPDtD8+skwqWg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR13MB4461 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 22:20:46 -0000 --_000_DM6PR13MB2330ABE87702391BDCC1664885C30DM6PR13MB2330namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anjun, Replies to your concerns and questions are inserted below: From: Aijun Wang Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:38 AM To: Linda Dunbar ; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' ; 'Jeff Tantsura' ; = 'Yingzhen Qu' ; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Hi, Linda: Scenario 1 is straightforward and is the local decision of the router. Do w= e need the draft then? [Linda] Yes, Scenario 1 is straight forward. There is a short description j= ust to make people aware this option. For scenario 2, I am considering where is the right place to place such inf= ormation. The consideration in my previous mail is not addressed. [Linda] Yes, it is possible that multiple App Servers share the same Capaci= ty Index. But the site preference might be different and the Load Measurem= ent might be different. Even if you use Stub link to advertise those attrib= utes, you might need one LSA per prefix. It seems RFC8362 does not illustrate which "OSPFv3 Extended-LSA Sub-TLVs" (= https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv3-parameters/ospfv3-parameters.xhtml#= extended-lsa-sub-tlvs) should be put int= o which "OSPFv3 Extended-LSA TLVs"? [Linda] The proposed Sub-TLV types need to be added by IANA to OSPFv4 Exten= ded-LSA Sub-TLVs and OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA TLVs Registry. Linda Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:09 AM To: Aijun Wang = >; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' >; 'Jeff Tantsura' >; 'Yingzhen Qu' >; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@iet= f.org Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Aijun, Thank you for the analysis and suggestions. The draft specified 3 Sub-TLVs to carry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App S= erver Running Status: Load Measurement; Capacity Index; and Preference Inde= x. More may be added in the future, especially when there are more informat= ion about UEs and their flows that can be passed from 5G Network Exposure F= unctions. Let's consider two different scenarios: Scenario 1: All the Egress routers to which the App Servers are attached can be configu= red with a consistent algorithm to compute an aggregated cost that take int= o consideration of Load Measurement, Capacity value and Preference value. T= hen this aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metric field [the interface = cost] of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for IPv6 [ RFC5340], or encoded in the "Me= tric" field of the Stub Link LSA [Link type =3D3] [RFC2328] for IPv4. In this scenario, there is no protocol extension needed, but requires all e= gress routers to agree upon a consistent algorithm to compute the cost to t= he App server (Prefix) Scenario 2: Either it is not possible for all the egress routers to have a consistent a= lgorithm to compute the aggregated cost, or the ingress routers need all th= e detailed IP Layer metrics for the App Servers for other purposes. Then, t= he IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server running status need to be encoded i= n LSAs to other nodes. Under this scenario, it makes sense to use the OSPFv= 2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv3 Extended LSA with Intra-Ar= ea-Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the draft, so that= nodes that don't care about those metrics can ignore them very easily. For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA or OSPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving= nodes, who care about the information, have to adjust path compute engine = anyway to derive the lowest cost path that takes the IP Layer Metrics into = consideration. Do you agree with this approach? We will revise the draft to reflect those two different scenarios. Linda From: Aijun Wang > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' >; 'Jeff Tantsura' >; 'Yingzhen Qu' >; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ie= tf.org; Linda Dunbar > Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Hi, Acee and Linda: The mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links that = connect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the app server= . For example, the "Capacity Index", "Preference Index" are all related to th= e site, not the prefix. And, for "Load Measurement", it is not enough to detect only the load to th= e server, but omits the load status of the link that connected the servers. We should also considering the future possible extension, such as the bandw= idth reservation on these links to the App server etc. In conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable th= an to the prefix. Such links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the net= work. Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org > On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM To: Jeff Tantsura >= ; Yingzhen Qu >; ls= r@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests Exactly. Thanks, Acee From: Jeff Tantsura > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM To: Acee Lindem >, Yingzhen Qu >, "lsr@ietf.org" >, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" >= , Linda Dunbar > Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as the OSPF= extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Re= quests For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362) Cheers, Jeff On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar >, wrote: Acee, Thank you very much for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Runni= ng Status and environment of 5G Edge Computing servers. In a nutshell, the https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edg= e-compute-ospf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry th= e three SubTLVs that are used to represent the Running Status and Environme= nt information of the 5G Edge Computing Servers attached to the router: * Load measurement sub-TLV * Capacity Index Sub-TLV * Preference Index Sub-TLV Several sections of the draft are devoted to describe what those measuremen= t are and why need them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not s= o straightforward when reading in a rush. The Goal of the OSPF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router's L= SA to be advertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network. If using your suggested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension d= oes seem easier and cleaner: We can have: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type | Length | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Route Type | Prefix Length | AF | Flags | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Address Prefix (variable) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Load Measurement Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | capacity Index Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Site Preference Sub-TLV | ~ ~ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ RFC7684 only has the Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addres= ses are in IPv6, should we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same dra= ft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684? Your guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. Linda Dunbar From: Acee Lindem (acee) > Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM To: Linda Dunbar >; Yingzhen Qu = >; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Comp= uting (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a look at= the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization requ= ested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. It cou= ld benefit from some WG mailing list discussion prior to a 10 minute presen= tation where we wouldn't have time to discuss the many issues. One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than RFC 36= 30 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be associated= with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application server address). I'll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109. Thanks, Acee From: Linda Dunbar > Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM To: Yingzhen Qu >, = "lsr@ietf.org" >, "l= sr-chairs@ietf.org" > Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computin= g (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Resent-From: > Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu >, Acee Lindem >, Christian Hopps= > Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM LSR Chairs, YingZhen, Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/= This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge Comp= uting App running status and environment, so that other routers in the 5G L= ocal Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of= flows from UEs. The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G Edge= Computing services. Thank you very much, Linda Dunbar From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Yingzhen Qu Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM To: lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests Hi all, We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meeting IE= TF 109. Please send your requests to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering pr= esentation and discussion). LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT. Thanks, Yingzhen _______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr --_000_DM6PR13MB2330ABE87702391BDCC1664885C30DM6PR13MB2330namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Anjun,

 

Replies to your concerns and questions are inserted = below:

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.c= n>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 12:38 AM
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; 'Acee Lindem (a= cee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jeffta= nt.ietf@gmail.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@i= etf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Hi, Linda:

 

Scenario 1 is straightforward and is the local decision of = the router. Do we need the draft then?

[Linda] Yes, Scenario 1 is straight forward. There i= s a short description just to make people aware this option.

 

For scenario 2, I am considering where is the right place t= o place such information. The consideration in my previous mail is not addr= essed.

[Linda] Yes, it is possible that multiple App Server= s share the same Capacity Index. But the  site preference might be dif= ferent and the Load Measurement might be different. Even if you use Stub li= nk to advertise those attributes, you might need one LSA per prefix.

 

It seems RFC8362 does not illustrate which “OSPFv3 Extended-LSA Sub-TLVs” (https://www.iana.org/assignments/ospfv3-parameters/ospfv3-parameter= s.xhtml#extended-lsa-sub-tlvs) should be put into which “OSPFv3 Extende= d-LSA TLVs”?

 

[Linda] The proposed Sub-TLV types need to be added by IANA to OSPFv4 Ext= ended-LSA Sub-TLVs and OSPFv2 Extended Link Opaque LSA TLVs Registry.

 

Linda

 

Best Regards=

 

Aijun Wang

China Telecom

 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:09 AM
To: Aijun Wang <wang= aijun@tsinghua.org.cn>; 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ; 'Jeff Tantsura' <jefftant.i= etf@gmail.com>; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ietf= @gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Aijun,

 

Thank you for the analysis and sugges= tions.

 

The draft specified 3 Sub-TLVs to car= ry the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server Running Status: Load Measuremen= t; Capacity Index; and Preference Index. More may be added in the future, especially when there are more informatio= n about UEs and their flows that can be passed from 5G Network Exposure Fun= ctions.

 

Let’s consider two different sc= enarios:

Scenario 1:

All the Egress routers to which the App Se= rvers are attached can be configured with a consistent algorithm to compute= an aggregated cost that take into consideration of Load Measurement, Capac= ity value and Preference value. Then this aggregated cost can be encoded in the Metric field [the interface cos= t] of Intra-Area-Prefix-LSA for  IPv6 [ RFC5340], or  encoded in = the “Metric” field of the Stub Link LSA [Link type =3D3] [RFC23= 28] for IPv4.

In this scenario, there is no protocol ext= ension needed, but requires all egress routers to agree upon a consistent a= lgorithm to compute the cost to the App server (Prefix)

 

Scenario 2:

Either it is not possible for all the egre= ss routers to have a consistent algorithm to compute the aggregated cost, o= r the ingress routers need all the detailed IP Layer metrics for the App Se= rvers for other purposes. Then, the IP Layer Metrics to Gauge App Server running status need to be encoded in = LSAs to other nodes. Under this scenario, it makes sense to use the OSPFv2 = Extended Prefix Opaque LSA for IPv4 and OSPFv3 Extended LSA with Intra-Area= -Prefix TLV to carry the detailed sub-TLVs proposed in the draft, so that nodes that don’t care about = those metrics can ignore them very easily.

 

For OSPFv2 Extended Prefix Opaque LSA or O= SPFv3 Extended LSA, the receiving nodes, who care about the information, ha= ve to adjust path compute engine anyway to derive the lowest cost path that= takes the IP Layer Metrics into consideration.

 

Do you agree with this approach?

 

We will revise the draft to reflect t= hose two different scenarios.

 

 

Linda

 

 

 

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 9:45 PM
To: 'Acee Lindem (acee)' <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; 'Jeff Tantsura' &l= t;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>= ;; 'Yingzhen Qu' <yingzhen.ie= tf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Subject: RE: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Hi= , Acee and Linda:

 

Th= e mentioned information in this draft are more related to the links that co= nnect the server to the edge router, than to the prefix of the app server.

Fo= r example, the “Capacity Index̶= 1;, “Preference Index” are all r= elated to the site, not the prefix.

An= d, for “Load Measurement= 221;, it is not enough to detect only the load to the server, but om= its the load status of the link that connected the servers.

We= should also considering the future possible extension, such as the bandwid= th reservation on these links to the App server etc.

 

In= conclusion, associate these attributes to the link is more reasonable than= to the prefix.

Su= ch links are another typical use case of passive/stub link within the netwo= rk.

 

 

Best Re= gards

&n= bsp;

Aijun W= ang

China T= elecom

 

From: lsr-bounces@ietf.org <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 8:42 AM
To: Jeff Tantsura <jef= ftant.ietf@gmail.com>; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

Exactly.

Thanks,
Acee

 

From: Jeff Tantsura <<= a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com= >, Yingzhen Qu <yingzh= en.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.o= rg" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org"= <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, Li= nda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@f= uturewei.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Question on using OSFPv2 extended Prefix TLV as t= he OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: IETF 109 LSR Presentation = Slot Requests

 

For OSPFv3 use E-LSAs (RFC8362)

 

Cheers,

Jeff

On Nov 4, 2020, 2:44 PM -0800, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>, wrote:

Acee,<= /o:p>

 =

Thank you very muc= h for suggesting using the Prefix TLV for carry the Running Status and envi= ronment of 5G Edge Computing servers.

 =

In a nutshell, the=  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/ proposes the extension to LSA that can carry the three SubTLVs that are used to rep= resent the Running Status and Environment information of the 5G Edge Comput= ing Servers attached to the router:

 =

 • Load measurement sub-TLV 

 • Capacity Index  Sub-TLV           =                  <= /o:p>

 • Preference Index  Sub-TLV          &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                  <= o:p>

 =

Several sections o= f the draft are devoted to describe what those measurement are and why need= them for 5G Edge Computing, which may have made it not so straightforward when reading in a rush.

 =

The Goal of the OS= PF extension is to carry those Sub-TLVs in the router’s LSA to be adv= ertised to other routers in the 5G Local Data Network.

 =

If using your sugg= ested RFC7684 OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV, the extension does seem easier an= d cleaner:

 =

We can have:

&= nbsp;0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1=

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Type                   &= nbsp;      | Length           =              |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Route Type    | Prefix Length | AF      = ;      | Flags         |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

|= Address Prefix (variable)              =                      = ;  |

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= Load Measurement Sub-TLV             &n= bsp;                     =    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~<= /span>

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= capacity Index Sub-TLV             &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~<= /span>

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

|= Site Preference Sub-TLV              &n= bsp;                     =    |

~=                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                    ~&= nbsp; 

+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  = ;

&= nbsp;

&= nbsp;

RFC7684 only has t= he Extended Prefix TLV for IPv4. If the App Server addresses are in IPv6, s= hould we specify the extension to RFC8362 in the same draft? Or define a new AF type for the same extension to RFC7684?

&= nbsp;

Your guidance is g= reatly appreciated.

 =

Thank you very muc= h.

 =

Linda Dunbar

 =

 

Fro= m: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>

Sen= t: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 1:38 PM

To:=  Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>; Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.ietf@gmail.com>; lsr@ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Sub= ject: Re: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extensio= n for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

We have a pretty full schedule and we add you as optional. I took a lo= ok at the draft and it is all over the place right now with standardization= requested for one solution but 3 separate solutions partially specified. It could benefit from some WG mailing list = discussion prior to a 10 minute presentation where we wouldn’t have t= ime to discuss the many issues.

 

One major issue is that you should be extending RFC 7684 rather than R= FC 3630 and it seems you these app-server selection metrics should be assoc= iated with a prefix and NOT a stub link (i.e., the application server address).

 

I’ll try to read it in more depth before IETF 109.

 

Thanks,

Acee

 

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.= dunbar@futurewei.com>

Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

To: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.iet= f@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ie= tf.org>

Subject: Need 10 minute slot to discuss OSPF extension for 5G Edge Computing (was RE: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentat= ion Slot Requests

Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ie= tf.org>

Resent-To: Yingzhen Qu <yingz= hen.ietf@gmail.com&= gt;, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, Christian Hopps <= chopps@chopps.org&g= t;

Resent-Date: Monday, November 2, 2020 at 10:12 PM

 

LSR Chairs, YingZhen,

 

Can you give us 10 minute slot to present this new draft:

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-dunbar-lsr-5g-edge-compute-ospf-ext/

 

This draft describes an OSPF extension that can distribute the 5G Edge= Computing App running status and environment, so that other routers in the= 5G Local Data Network can make intelligent decision on optimizing forwarding of flows from UEs. The goal is to improv= e latency and performance for 5G Edge Computing services.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Linda Dunbar

 

Fro= m: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Yingzhen Qu

Sen= t: Monday, October 19, 2020 3:52 PM

To:=  lsr= @ietf.org; lsr-chairs@ietf.org

Sub= ject: [Lsr] IETF 109 LSR Presentation Slot Requests

 

Hi all, 

 

We're now accepting agenda requests for the LSR Working Grouping meetin= g IETF 109. Please send your requests to lsr-chairs@ietf.org indicating draft name, speaker, and desired duration (covering presentation and discu= ssion). 

 

LSR session is scheduled on Monday, Nov 16, 12:00-14:00 ICT.

 

Thanks,

Yingzhen

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

Lsr@ietf.org

= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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Circuit scoped flooding is required to prevent unnecessary floods from being carried beyond where they are needed in the network. One thought ... the way I originally worded the draft was not to have two separate databases, but rather just to insert LSPs received as circuit local in the normal database and then clear the SRM for those LSPs, so the local flooding process believes they have already been flooded, but they will be included in the CSNP, etc., as normal. I'm not certain why we need two databases here. > [Les:] If you use the mechanisms defined in > draft-ietf-lsr-dynamic-flooding there would be no need to use Circuit > Scoped Flooding to send normal area scoped LSPs. > Each node in the topology would know to which neighbors it should have > flooding enabled - either because you operate in centralized mode and > the Area Leader distributes the flooding topology or because you operate > in distributed mode and all nodes employ the same algorithm. (The latter Using an area leader, even to centrally calculate a flooding topology, breaks the distributed nature of the solutions, and creates a much more complex solution. If you operate in distributed mode, with a common algorithm, I think you still need to specify what that algorithm is ... this draft describes such an algorithm ... I think ... ?? > The fact that you apparently do NOT want to use the extensions defined > in the dynamic-flooding draft means that (as you agree above) you have > to introduce additional protocol extensions which aren't really > necessary. This makes the solution much less appealing to me - > independent of the merits/demerits of the algorithm itself. Not really... we are modifying already existing protocol extensions, rather than creating new ones. The process described in this draft has already been tested, and is widely used, in OSPF, btw (and doesn't use two databases there). > The use of Circuit Scoped LSPs to send traditional area scoped LSPs is > not at all what RFC 7356 intends. And it causes difficulties (as you > have noted above) in what the content of CSNPs should be and how the > different LSPDBs are used internally. > The dynamic flooding draft wasn't in existence when Russ wrote the > early versions of this draft. I am suggesting you might want to rethink > your approach to take advantage of what dynamic flooding draft has > defined. The dynamic flooding draft assumes an area leader, which is what this draft is attempting to avoid. /r From nobody Sun Dec 20 03:24:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3927C3A0F06; Sun, 20 Dec 2020 03:24:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=a8TzfT+X; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=SEuEHNrQ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f9LJbOgBXHag; 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Wed, 23 Dec 2020 11:08:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160875050258.19549.489298294635989819@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 11:08:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 19:08:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks Authors : William Britto Shraddha Hegde Parag Kaneriya Rejesh Shetty Ron Bonica Peter Psenak Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2020-12-23 Abstract: An IGP Flexible Algorithm (Flex-Algorithm) allows IGP to compute constraint-based paths. As currently defined, IGP Flex-Algorithm is used with Segment Routing (SR) data planes - SR MPLS and SRv6. Therefore, Flex-Algorithm cannot be deployed in the absence of SR. This document extends IGP Flex-Algorithm, so that it can be used for regular IPv4 and IPv6 prefixes. This allows Flex-Algorithm to be deployed in any IP network, even in the absence of SR. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ip-flexalgo/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 29 22:43:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6483A101A for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 22:43:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8m5HMCj3d2JM for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 22:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.228]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2B23A101B for ; Tue, 29 Dec 2020 22:43:05 -0800 (PST) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.218:50612.46181216 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-219.142.69.75?logid-8c7a2a07a7a244118d7a9d55c9a2a8c4 (unknown [172.18.0.218]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id 86B142800E8 for ; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 14:42:59 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: 66040164@chinatelecom.cn Received: from ([172.18.0.218]) by App0025 with ESMTP id 8c7a2a07a7a244118d7a9d55c9a2a8c4 for lsr@ietf.org; Wed Dec 30 14:43:00 2020 X-Transaction-ID: 8c7a2a07a7a244118d7a9d55c9a2a8c4 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.218 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Sender: wangaj3@chinatelecom.cn From: "Aijun Wang" To: References: <160930949336.20767.10899532024235305739@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160930949336.20767.10899532024235305739@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 14:42:58 +0800 Message-ID: <003d01d6de77$040aa7d0$0c1ff770$@chinatelecom.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJNE7U/zxCg2CoKgC4NohP0UEjBCakiwdcg Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-05.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 06:43:12 -0000 Hi, All: Happy new year to you all in advance! We have update the draft about PUA mechanism in recent quiet period. The = change to the previous version are the followings: 1. Focus on the control plane convergence based on the PUA information, = that is, BGP fail-over based on the PUA. 2 Add its application in MPLS and SRv6 LPM(Longest Prefix Match) based = BGP next-hop failure environment. 3.Remove the parts that about tunnel between ABRs/Fast Rerouting and PUA = capabilities announcement etc. 4.Other large amount of editorial changes. The above changes are the reflections about the previous comments from = the LSR experts. Please see whether there is other concern for the = updates. If there is no more comments/concern on it, we would like to ask the = chairs to start the WG adoption call then? Thanks again for the experts that comments in previous discussion, I = will add all of your name on the next version. More comments are welcome! Best Regards Aijun Wang China Telecom > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:25 PM > To: Aijun Wang ; Gyan Mishra > ; Yaqun Xiao ; Zhibo > Hu > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-05.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, = draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement-05.txt > has been successfully submitted by Aijun Wang and posted to the IETF > repository. >=20 > Name: draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement > Revision: 05 > Title: Prefix Unreachable Announcement > Document date: 2020-12-30 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: > = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annouce= me > nt-05.txt > Status: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annouc= eme > nt/ > Htmlized: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-a= nnou > cement > Htmlized: > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement= -05 > Diff: > = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-ann= oucem > ent-05 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes a mechanism to solve an existing issue with > Longest Prefix Match (LPM), that exists where an operator domain is > divided into multiple areas or levels where summarization is > utilized. This draft addresses a fail-over issue related to a = multi > areas or levels domain, where a link or node down event occurs > resulting in an LPM component prefix being omitted from the FIB > resulting in black hole sink of routing and connectivity loss. = This > draft introduces a new control plane convergence signaling = mechanism > using a negative prefix called Prefix Unreachable Announcement = (PUA), > utilized to detect a link or node down event and signal the RIB = that > the event has occurred to force immediate control plane = convergence. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 From nobody Wed Dec 30 21:12:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217743A0CC1; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:12:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160939156107.5282.12232577536698545664@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:12:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 05:12:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF Reverse Metric Authors : Ketan Talaulikar Peter Psenak Hugh Johnston Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric-02.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2020-12-30 Abstract: This document specifies the extensions to OSPF that enables a router to signal to its neighbor the metric that the neighbor should use towards itself using link-local advertisement between them. The signalling of this reverse metric, to be used on link(s) towards itself, allows a router to influence the amount of traffic flowing towards itself and in certain use-cases enables routers to maintain symmetric metric on both sides of a link between them. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-reverse-metric-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Dec 30 21:24:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietf.org Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F1B93A0CE3; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:24:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lsr@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lsr@ietf.org Message-ID: <160939225208.15063.9387046229017004079@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 21:24:12 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode-02.txt X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 05:24:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF. Title : OSPF Strict-Mode for BFD Authors : Ketan Talaulikar Peter Psenak Albert Fu Rajesh M Filename : draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2020-12-30 Abstract: This document specifies the extensions to OSPF that enable an OSPF router to signal the requirement for a Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) session prior to adjacency formation. Link-Local Signaling (LLS) is used to advertise this requirement of "strict- mode" of BFD session establishment for OSPF adjacency. If both OSPF neighbors advertise the "strict-mode" of BFD, adjacency formation will be blocked until a BFD session has been successfully established. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lsr-ospf-bfd-strict-mode-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
[ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated]
Hi ,

OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both = conditions are met:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP subnet=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. Matching network mask. =
From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TY= PE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 INTEGE= R {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 netMaskMismatch (7),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 }

I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched).
=
Let's take below example:

=C2= =A0 RTA=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (11.1.1.2/24) = =C2=A0 --------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (10.= 1.1.1/24) RTB

Here, src IP is not matchin= g to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is the error type to be set?
Should this be considered as generic input processing error and only= =C2=A0generate
ospfIfRxBadPacket notification or=20 netMaskMismatch=C2=A0 notification?
Should we need a = new type here?

"

The generi= c input processing of OSPF packets will

have checked the validity of the IP header and the OSPF packet

header.&= quot;=C2=A0




--000000000000d4a05805b6061e09-- From nobody Wed Dec 9 03:15:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232BF3A1330 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:15:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t3irskl_VL3j for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 670B73A132E for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 03:15:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1700; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1607512549; x=1608722149; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Z9Es69J2wiMcQfCXGU1UkGR4EbNfRuF9OUoC4K5V/U8=; b=Y0OZ9zVb2/M9m/4jm4WwNrDoN5fXYHMHrtc+a7XbLw3DQhB2ACiToxN2 dIDxUU9ai6jP3yrc+fFtfuQdvU/99kTczKvMBCo6FTeGdYyU85/VedDha vBYaS0JqPYOGtWMb0ARj6WP1nfMwGaLu5GyUhP5uGZFMOgomo7V/vAwmw Q=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B8AQDXsNBflxbLJq1iHQEBAQEJARIBBQUBQIFPgx9XA?= =?us-ascii?q?SASLoQ+iQSHdy0DnDMLAQEBDxsUBAEBhEoCggAmOBMCAwEBAQMCAwEBAQEFA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAgEGBBQBAQEBAQEBAYY2DIVyAQEBAQIBHQYVUQsRAgIBAQECAh8EAwICR?= =?us-ascii?q?gkIBgEMBgIBAYMiAYJmIKwYdoEyhVeDU4FCgQ4qjV6BQT+BESeCcT6HVYJfB?= =?us-ascii?q?IMnMnCBAQMUGQEOYJtCnBiCfoMjmBEFBwMfgySKJIUsj0GGE41onFSEd4FtI?= =?us-ascii?q?YFZMxoIGxU7gmkJRxkNjjsdhhATh3BAAzA3AgYKAQEDCYpqAQE?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,405,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="31705028" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Dec 2020 11:15:45 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B9BFiPC004600; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 11:15:45 GMT To: Huzhibo , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <7b966115-5c34-64e0-8d04-44ac0eb3324e@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:15:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:15:51 -0000 Zhibo, On 09/12/2020 11:50, Huzhibo wrote: > Hi authors, > > Here are some comments about IP flexalgo as follows: > > 1.In Flex-Algo draft, there is description about using fast-rerouting > with Flex-Algo for SR-MPLS and SRv6 data plane. It is recommended that > similar text be added for IP Flex-Algo. there is a similar text in section 8, but more work is required indeed. One important note - TI-LFA requires some form of traffic steering. This can be achieved by enabling both IP and SR flex-algo and use SR FA only to protect IP FA, similar to protection of "unlabeled" traffic with SR MPLS. Or some alternative mechanism for enforcing the traffic on the LFA path is required. > > 2.Is Application-Specific Link Attribute (ASLA) MUST be used for IP > Flex-Algo path computation? yes, the flex-algo application uses Flex-algo specific link attributes as defined in base flex-algo draft. thanks, Peter > > Best regards, > > Zhibo > > *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee) > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM > *To:* lsr > *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms > (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use > cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support > for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please > indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to > 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are > certainly welcome. > > Thanks, > > Acee > From nobody Wed Dec 9 04:06:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF833A1277 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 04:06:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R0kJG0K93YX1 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 04:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 716D23A12A7 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 04:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4CrbLQ0FVtz67N1T for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:03:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggema720-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.84) by fraeml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:06:03 +0100 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.211) by dggema720-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:05:49 +0800 Received: from dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) by dggema769-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.9.128.71]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:05:49 +0800 From: Huzhibo To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanuoUDw//+BmwCAAJOwUA== Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:05:49 +0000 Message-ID: <6855c46eed1846a2b6db6ff8c4cbd5ea@huawei.com> References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504@huawei.com> <7b966115-5c34-64e0-8d04-44ac0eb3324e@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7b966115-5c34-64e0-8d04-44ac0eb3324e@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.201.204] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 12:06:15 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZXI6DQoNCiAgICBJZiBUaS1MRkEgY2FuIHByb3RlY3QgSVAgZmxleGFsZ28sIHRoZSBu YXRpdmUgSVAgYW5kIFNSIG11c3Qgc2hhcmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgYWxnb3JpdGhtIElELg0KDQp0aGFu a3MsDQpaaGlibw0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogUGV0ZXIgUHNl bmFrIFttYWlsdG86cHBzZW5ha0BjaXNjby5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJl ciA5LCAyMDIwIDc6MTYgUE0NClRvOiBIdXpoaWJvIDxodXpoaWJvQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+OyBBY2Vl IExpbmRlbSAoYWNlZSkgPGFjZWU9NDBjaXNjby5jb21AZG1hcmMuaWV0Zi5vcmc+OyBsc3IgPGxz ckBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHNyXSBXRyBBZG9wdGlvbiBDYWxsIGZvciAiSUdQ IEZsZXhpYmxlIEFsZ29yaXRobXMgKEZsZXgtQWxnb3JpdGhtKSBJbiBJUCBOZXR3b3JrcyIgLSBk cmFmdC1ib25pY2EtbHNyLWlwLWZsZXhhbGdvLTAxDQoNClpoaWJvLA0KDQpPbiAwOS8xMi8yMDIw IDExOjUwLCBIdXpoaWJvIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBIaSBhdXRob3JzLA0KPiANCj4gSGVyZSBhcmUgc29t ZSBjb21tZW50cyBhYm91dCBJUCBmbGV4YWxnbyBhcyBmb2xsb3dzOg0KPiANCj4gMS5JbiBGbGV4 LUFsZ28gZHJhZnQsIHRoZXJlIGlzIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIGFib3V0IHVzaW5nIGZhc3QtcmVyb3V0 aW5nIA0KPiB3aXRoIEZsZXgtQWxnbyBmb3IgU1ItTVBMUyBhbmQgU1J2NiBkYXRhIHBsYW5lLiBJ dCBpcyByZWNvbW1lbmRlZCB0aGF0IA0KPiBzaW1pbGFyIHRleHQgYmUgYWRkZWQgZm9yIElQIEZs ZXgtQWxnby4NCg0KdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBzaW1pbGFyIHRleHQgaW4gc2VjdGlvbiA4LCBidXQgbW9y ZSB3b3JrIGlzIHJlcXVpcmVkIGluZGVlZC4NCg0KT25lIGltcG9ydGFudCBub3RlIC0gVEktTEZB IHJlcXVpcmVzIHNvbWUgZm9ybSBvZiB0cmFmZmljIHN0ZWVyaW5nLiBUaGlzIGNhbiBiZSBhY2hp ZXZlZCBieSBlbmFibGluZyBib3RoIElQIGFuZCBTUiBmbGV4LWFsZ28gYW5kIHVzZSBTUiBGQSBv bmx5IHRvIHByb3RlY3QgSVAgRkEsIHNpbWlsYXIgdG8gcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBvZiAidW5sYWJlbGVk IiB0cmFmZmljIHdpdGggU1IgTVBMUy4gT3Igc29tZSBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZSBtZWNoYW5pc20gZm9y IGVuZm9yY2luZyB0aGUgdHJhZmZpYyBvbiB0aGUgTEZBIHBhdGggaXMgcmVxdWlyZWQuDQoNCj4g DQo+IDIuSXMgQXBwbGljYXRpb24tU3BlY2lmaWMgTGluayBBdHRyaWJ1dGUgKEFTTEEpIE1VU1Qg YmUgdXNlZCBmb3IgSVAgDQo+IEZsZXgtQWxnbyBwYXRoIGNvbXB1dGF0aW9uPw0KDQp5ZXMsIHRo ZSBmbGV4LWFsZ28gYXBwbGljYXRpb24gdXNlcyBGbGV4LWFsZ28gc3BlY2lmaWMgbGluayBhdHRy aWJ1dGVzIGFzIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gYmFzZSBmbGV4LWFsZ28gZHJhZnQuDQoNCnRoYW5rcywNClBl dGVyDQo+IA0KPiBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+IA0KPiBaaGlibw0KPiANCj4gKkZyb206KkxzciBb bWFpbHRvOmxzci1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSAqT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mICpBY2VlIExpbmRlbSAN Cj4gKGFjZWUpDQo+ICpTZW50OiogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciAyLCAyMDIwIDU6MTMgQU0N Cj4gKlRvOiogbHNyIDxsc3JAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+ICpTdWJqZWN0OiogW0xzcl0gV0cgQWRvcHRp b24gQ2FsbCBmb3IgIklHUCBGbGV4aWJsZSBBbGdvcml0aG1zDQo+IChGbGV4LUFsZ29yaXRobSkg SW4gSVAgTmV0d29ya3MiIC0gZHJhZnQtYm9uaWNhLWxzci1pcC1mbGV4YWxnby0wMQ0KPiANCj4g VGhpcyBJUCBGbGV4IEFsZ29yaXRobSBkcmFmdCBnZW5lcmF0ZWQgcXVpdGUgYSBiaXQgb2YgZGlz Y3Vzc2lvbiBvbiANCj4gdXNlIGNhc2VzIGFuZCBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHByaW9yIHRvIElFVEYgMTA5 IGFuZCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgZ2VuZXJhbGx5IA0KPiBzdXBwb3J0IGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbi4gVGhp cyBiZWdpbnMgYSB0d28gd2VlayBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsLiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIGluZGljYXRl IHlvdXIgc3VwcG9ydCBvciBvYmplY3Rpb24gdG8gV0cgYWRvcHRpb24gb24gdGhpcyBsaXN0IA0K PiBwcmlvciB0bw0KPiAxMjowMCBBTSBVVEMgb24gRGVjZW1iZXIgMTZedGggLCAyMDIwLiBBbHNv LCByZXZpZXcgY29tbWVudHMgYXJlIA0KPiBjZXJ0YWlubHkgd2VsY29tZS4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5r cywNCj4gDQo+IEFjZWUNCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 9 04:44:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E881B3A1007 for ; 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09 Dec 2020 12:43:53 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B9Chqxt024816; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:43:53 GMT To: Huzhibo , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <88ecf32fdb4142fbab23f4700335a504@huawei.com> <7b966115-5c34-64e0-8d04-44ac0eb3324e@cisco.com> <6855c46eed1846a2b6db6ff8c4cbd5ea@huawei.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <6464cc14-2813-3db3-8ec4-94946aa2b995@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:43:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6855c46eed1846a2b6db6ff8c4cbd5ea@huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 12:43:59 -0000 Hi Zhibo, On 09/12/2020 13:05, Huzhibo wrote: > Hi Peter: > > If Ti-LFA can protect IP flexalgo, the native IP and SR must share the same algorithm ID. that is correct. thanks, Peter > > thanks, > Zhibo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 7:16 PM > To: Huzhibo ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 > > Zhibo, > > On 09/12/2020 11:50, Huzhibo wrote: >> Hi authors, >> >> Here are some comments about IP flexalgo as follows: >> >> 1.In Flex-Algo draft, there is description about using fast-rerouting >> with Flex-Algo for SR-MPLS and SRv6 data plane. It is recommended that >> similar text be added for IP Flex-Algo. > > there is a similar text in section 8, but more work is required indeed. > > One important note - TI-LFA requires some form of traffic steering. This can be achieved by enabling both IP and SR flex-algo and use SR FA only to protect IP FA, similar to protection of "unlabeled" traffic with SR MPLS. Or some alternative mechanism for enforcing the traffic on the LFA path is required. > >> >> 2.Is Application-Specific Link Attribute (ASLA) MUST be used for IP >> Flex-Algo path computation? > > yes, the flex-algo application uses Flex-algo specific link attributes as defined in base flex-algo draft. > > thanks, > Peter >> >> Best regards, >> >> Zhibo >> >> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >> (acee) >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM >> *To:* lsr >> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on >> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally >> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. >> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list >> prior to >> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are >> certainly welcome. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Acee >> > > > From nobody Wed Dec 9 04:45:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8603A10B7 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 04:45:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.376 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.376 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=gcPc2cad; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=U/eTMQEd 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Received: from dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) by fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:52:05 +0100 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by dggeme751-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:52:04 +0800 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:52:03 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Peter Psenak , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqg//+JYYCAAJ+NMA== Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:52:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.188.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 12:52:10 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZXIsDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogUGV0ZXIg UHNlbmFrIFttYWlsdG86cHBzZW5ha0BjaXNjby5jb21dDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgRGVj 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lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3BA3A1652 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:02:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fpc3qR_OF_oF for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F26EE3A17BC for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4CrcYK71hFz67MPC for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 20:58:29 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggeme753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.99) by fraeml738-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:01:49 +0100 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.100) by dggeme753-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 21:01:47 +0800 Received: from dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) by dggeme754-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.77]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 21:01:47 +0800 From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" To: Parag Kaneriya , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr Thread-Topic: WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 Thread-Index: AQHWyCa69SgvuXvqQUSruOMjcUOnRanukOqggAAPEOCAACQQ0A== Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:01:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.188.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_db4f00e26d7844debdaac2ac2c1004d1huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 13:02:24 -0000 --_000_db4f00e26d7844debdaac2ac2c1004d1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Parag, Thanks for your reply. While perhaps I should make my comment clearer: I agree a node which does not support a particular address family (e.g. IPv= 6) will not install route for that family. While according to the rules in = section 7, this node will be included in the topology for path computation = of one Flex-Algo by another node, just because it advertises the participat= ion to the same Flex-Algo for another address family (e.g. IPv4). In my und= erstanding this would cause packet drop. Did I miss something? Best regards, Jie From: Parag Kaneriya [mailto:pkaneria@juniper.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:46 PM To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) ; lsr Subject: RE: WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm)= In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 IP Algorithm SUBTLV indicate the participation for particular flex algo by = node. Participation doesn't depend on whether it support ipv4 prefix or ip= v6 prefix. Node which doesn't support particular family will not install t= hat family route. Regards Parag Juniper Business Use Only From: Lsr > On Behalf Of = Dongjie (Jimmy) Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 3:40 PM To: Acee Lindem (acee) >; lsr > Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algo= rithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi authors, Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail list and = the IETF meeting. The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm particip= ation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 Flex-Algo part= icipation. If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of the= se nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path com= puted for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only participate in I= Pv4 Flex-Algo 128? Best regards, Jie From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee) Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM To: lsr > Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorith= m) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cas= es and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG = adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your sup= port or objection to WG adoption on this list prior to 12:00 AM UTC on Dece= mber 16th, 2020. Also, review comments are certainly welcome. Thanks, Acee --_000_db4f00e26d7844debdaac2ac2c1004d1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Parag,

 

Thanks for your reply. While perhaps I should make my comment cle= arer:

 

I agree a node which does not support a particular address family= (e.g. IPv6) will not install route for that family. While according to the= rules in section 7, this node will be included in the topology for path computation of one Flex-Algo by another = node, just because it advertises the participation to the same Flex-Algo fo= r another address family (e.g. IPv4). In my understanding this would cause = packet drop. Did I miss something?

 

Best regards,

Jie

 

F= rom: Parag Kaner= iya [mailto:pkaneria@juniper.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:46 PM
To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) = <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Fle= x-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

IP A= lgorithm SUBTLV indicate the participation for particular flex algo by node= .  Participation doesn’t depend on whether it support ipv4 prefi= x or ipv6 prefix.  Node which doesn’t support particular family will not install that family route.

 

Rega= rds

Para= g

 

 

Juniper Business= Use Only

F= rom: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Dongjie (Jimmy)
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 3:40 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithm= s (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01

 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black"= >[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi authors,

 

Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail= list and the IETF meeting.

 

The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorith= m participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 Flex= -Algo participation. If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Al= go 128, how to ensure that the path computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not us= e the nodes which only participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128?

 

Best regards,

Jie

 

F= rom: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM
To: lsr <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (F= lex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01<= /o:p>

 

This= IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on use cases a= nd deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally support for WG adop= tion. This begins a two week WG adoption call. Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this lis= t prior to 12:00 AM UTC on December 16th, 2020. Also, review com= ments are certainly welcome.

Than= ks,

Acee=

 

 

--_000_db4f00e26d7844debdaac2ac2c1004d1huaweicom_-- From nobody Wed Dec 9 05:05:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4693A1646 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:05:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gj1CF8-AMAV4 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E62CE3A1642 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:05:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4236; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1607519147; x=1608728747; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fY7h7OTrEJC1FLUEZpEHaCqBQtDj8sGoD9fumSRZaf8=; b=V3XlDJuKIXlXnt2PrjGSt5qOD88u1LG9XwJod1O+eHJJaIc/l6nJq3Jh KyJ1n8KTZV2l9ivmyU1jds9GBDSjnHoENfJE48hwE+pS8ZN3tVLRSDdZ8 cHr8iYcCM4uMrMwT6NVUzaxidF5G+H6sPinTJ7XWKgHjUqOySJ2hiFLRH 0=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BvAAACy9BflxbLJq1iGwEBAQEBAQEBBQEBARIBAQEDA?= =?us-ascii?q?wEBAUCBT4N2ASASLoQ+iQSHdy0DnDMLAQEBDy8EAQGESgKCACY4EwIDAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?wIDAQEBAQUBAQECAQYEFAEBAQEBAQEBhkKFcgEBAQECAR0GFU0ECxEEAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?gIfBAMCAkYJCAYBDAYCAQGDIoJnIKwRdoEyhVeDVoFCgQ4qjV6BQT+BESeCc?= =?us-ascii?q?T6CXQSBOwEBgzeCXwSBVRCBQg2BHQ4xKxk1nCKKZZEzgn6DI5gTBQcDH4Mki?= =?us-ascii?q?iWFLI9ChhONaaFLgW0hgVkzGggbFTuCaVAZDY47HY4TQAMwAjUCBgoBAQMJi?= =?us-ascii?q?lwBAQ?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,405,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="31768100" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Dec 2020 13:05:42 +0000 Received: from [10.60.140.52] (ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com [10.60.140.52]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 0B9D5gL2023331; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:05:42 GMT To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , lsr References: <777B2AC4-CACF-4AB0-BFC7-B0CFFA881EEB@cisco.com> <169b063524dc4420b37016d2428fc85c@huawei.com> <29d3d16a-237d-e657-e84c-c74a1e5a841f@cisco.com> From: Peter Psenak Message-ID: <8024148b-df7d-d79f-26b6-c64b9113cd9e@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:05:41 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.60.140.52, ams-ppsenak-nitro3.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 13:05:49 -0000 Hi Jimmy, On 09/12/2020 13:52, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: > Hi Peter, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:45 PM >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) ; Acee Lindem (acee) >> ; lsr >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >> >> Jimmy, >> >> On 09/12/2020 11:10, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote: >>> Hi authors, >>> >>> Here is one comment following the previous discussion on the mail list >>> and the IETF meeting. >>> >>> The IP Algorithm TLV is defined to advertise the IP Flex-Algorithm >>> participation information, there is no separate TLV for IPv4 or IPv6 >>> Flex-Algo participation. >> >> the draft clearly says: >> >> "The IP Flex-Algorithm participation advertised in ISIS IP Algorithm >> Sub-TLV is topology independent." > > This does not answer my question. > > Section 7 gives the rules of IP Flex-Algo Path calculation: > > " IP Flex-Algorithm application only considers participating nodes during the Flex-Algorithm calculation. When computing paths for a given Flex-Algorithm, all nodes that do not advertise participation for IP Flex-Algorithm, as described in Section 5, MUST be pruned from the topology." > >>From IP Algorithm TLV, one cannot tell whether a node participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4, IPv6 or both. This would cause the problem described below: > > When one node uses IP Flex-Algo participation to compute a path for an IPv6 address advertised with Flex-Algo 128, it will not prune the nodes which participate in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only from the topology. Thus IPv6 packets following that path may get dropped on nodes which participates in Flex-Algo 128 for IPv4 only. FA calculation is done for every MT topology independently. For IPv4 it will take all routers participating in MT0 and run the FA calculation on top of MT0. For IPv6 it will take all routers participating in MT2 and run the FA calculation on top of MT2. > >> >>> If some nodes participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128, and some of these >>> nodes participate in IPv6 Flex-Algo 128, how to ensure that the path >>> computed for IPv6 Flex-Algo will not use the nodes which only >>> participate in IPv4 Flex-Algo 128? >> >> there is no such thing as "IPv4 Flex-Algo 128" or "IPv6 Flex-Algo 128". >> There is only algo 128. > > Agree that Flex-Algo 128 is application or data plane agnostic, and as we discussed the same Flex-Algo can be used with both IPv4 and IPv6 (maybe also for SR-MPLS, SRv6). These terms are used as shorthand of "Flex-Algo 128 used with IPv4 or IPv6" > >> You are mixing data plane support with algo participation. > > I understand Flex-Algo definition is application agnostic, and Flex-Algo participation is application specific, it is just not clear to me whether IPv4 and IPv6 can be treated as one application. yes they can. > >> If you want an algo to only include nodes that supports specific data plane, >> you would need to define a specific algo for it. > > This IMO contradicts with the base concept: Flex-Algo definition is application (or data plane) agnostic. not really, see above. thanks, Peter > > Best regards, > Jie > >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Jie >>> >>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem >>> (acee) >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:13 AM >>> *To:* lsr >>> *Subject:* [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for "IGP Flexible Algorithms >>> (Flex-Algorithm) In IP Networks" - draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-01 >>> >>> This IP Flex Algorithm draft generated quite a bit of discussion on >>> use cases and deployment prior to IETF 109 and there was generally >>> support for WG adoption. This begins a two week WG adoption call. >>> Please indicate your support or objection to WG adoption on this list >>> prior to >>> 12:00 AM UTC on December 16^th , 2020. Also, review comments are >>> certainly welcome. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Acee >>> > > > From nobody Wed Dec 9 05:17:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lsr@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E98C33A1652 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.854 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.854 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-fhEHkcja0P for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B253A164E for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id r24so3030656lfm.8 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 05:17:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7ticSnwdFXpEPWRauNLbh8MDZsrUdfbKHU23Ah2YVOs=; b=W5+HEtc6K7aSPa4gu5ncGrJ6PoPUDYO58evvfWBMK96au29y/Qhw7yeddqxJ4cF5EJ PIquhPogP7udqWEQNVMrM1UJcVk5lQTKQecKEuzQzR4nm081petoz3rtBAz/IWM0fMhj XBdr8QTCHeh3ALlKZ86FM2vkq19FiCHlCNahIISSySUd9L9VGqeFVMsE8srg6g5WXBc3 szaMFKj5NNMiLcHm9wwdqfpVksd8jLTLtt3wWvFszUBXxCejw2a4ByDPEtze76PxTmtk d7TbVwSB2P/18OlXTzwpbu3XLXrRO/OLAmnN60EVULB9AKX68GXYYsv5h9nhnOAHbpbK tv5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7ticSnwdFXpEPWRauNLbh8MDZsrUdfbKHU23Ah2YVOs=; b=M7xWtyttwrbw2m6l85xo714+xKKgFlEUjjyHflwwPowJRipm6KN1fWs16ohPcHI00r WagMtOeGKBjpOk5fn/61tkz2TRDsw4tMbWSozNDjMUmFeyfTAEOuqMkcp5N8NYcSUY9e kOT+6risFFL+JZ8WKPFY1RTlq9dcdgGB5Hfr+AoLVkN1zv14XuHDTxVIhe8SYypSz3xB uHJDGj9q5HMLBope0cWLR7S75t/agXLoGhOAY119nVJq0gcv02XG/9zvois81ZsXWBF+ m5zQ1UgzVDvxq3l2xLGMM9w6AqHd3NwgDfAjl83WV8qVq/GOjlZjm8tnDo70qwV9pz14 XvCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Es6bhiZcnLo6qvF+PctAJLRFgMpqZ637Rb9CGEwx8PX9rORHu aae0c0vg/qEJKTaOLWB31vyDI4GHLUCjswZOpO4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxgJ47DddGvUQpoa1RCHSa7/audS0sErDxqdMNVHKkrfYuD26Q4f0n6yZ/oH/T/WO9a16cx6V691mI68b3gh8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5f5d:: with SMTP id a29mr938575lfj.212.1607519865072; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 05:17:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44447C51-58FA-4756-92A0-BD0DBC26E44D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <44447C51-58FA-4756-92A0-BD0DBC26E44D@cisco.com> From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 18:47:33 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: Tulasi Rami Reddy N , "lsr@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000086f09405b607e207" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 13:17:49 -0000 --00000000000086f09405b607e207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Acee, This is a configuration error, right? Wouldn't ospfIfConfigError trap be more appropriate? There is no good error code for this case in ospfConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could have reserved some error codes for future definitions? Regards, Muthu On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Tulasi, > > You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMaskMismatch trap as thi= s is for > mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You could generate the > ospfIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Tulasi Rami Reddy N < > tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM > *To: *"lsr@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > [ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated] > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both > conditions are met: > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2. Matching network mask. > > From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined. > > > > ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE > SYNTAX INTEGER { > > *netMaskMismatch (7),* > } > > > > I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). > > > > Let's take below example: > > > > RTA (11.1.1.2/24) -------- (10.1.1.1/24) RTB > > > > Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is > the error type to be set? > > Should this be considered as generic input processing error and > only generate > > *ospfIfRxBadPacket *notification or *netMaskMismatch *notification? > > Should we need a new type here? > > > > " > > The generic input processing of OSPF packets will > > have checked the validity of the IP header and the OSPF packet > > header." > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tulasi. > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N > wrote: > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2.matching network mask. > > From the > > > > Thanks, > > TUlasi. > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > --00000000000086f09405b607e207 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Acee,

This is a configuration error, righ= t? Wouldn't=C2=A0ospfIfConfigError trap be more approp= riate? There is no good error code for this case in=C2=A0ospfConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could have reserved some error codes= for future definitions?

Regards,
Muthu

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Acee Lindem (acee= ) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmar= c.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Tulasi,

You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMas= kMismatch trap as this is for mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You= could generate the ospfIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case.

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> o= n behalf of Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM
To: "lsr@ietf= .org" <lsr@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

[ Sorry, My previous mai= l was truncated]

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be= formed on a numbered LAN only below both conditions are met:=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP subnet=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. Matching network mask.

From the OSPFv2 MIB, the= re is only one error defined.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 ospf= ConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 INTEGER { =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 netMaskMismatch (7),
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0

I believe this is for th= e case 2 (when mask is mismatched).

=C2=A0

Let's take below exa= mple:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 RTA=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 (11.1.1.2/24) = =C2=A0 --------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (10.1.1.1/24) RTB

=C2=A0

Here, src IP is not matc= hing to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is the error type to be set?<= u>

Should this be considere= d as generic input processing error and only=C2=A0generate

ospfIfRxBadPacket notification or netMaskMismatch=C2=A0 notification?

Should we need a new typ= e here?

=C2=A0

"

The generic input processing of OSP= F packets will

have= checked the validity of the IP header a= nd the OSPF packet

header."=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Tulasi.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4= :27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be= formed on a numbered LAN only when

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP subnet

2.matching network mask.=

From the <= /p>

=C2=A0

Thanks,

TUlasi.

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, NUMERIC_HTTP_ADDR=1.242, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3UeMAMnHBea for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B8593A15E9 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 05:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id y22so2391410ljn.9 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 05:51:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=o/zlpLZtG94xkrQUiI5cRKW1hGFOpZR6yNR5g4jtT18=; b=RSsMPdVImRhrbhLB+Ztw0c5oHOIa+xqhp1jRgbc6gdhdDc7S3zDGi0Z2p7FP0MYGTn JLvGlc8Vz/O8vOzggjTm0U+zTmO5QSmj5Vj/mnJSIp2GIZOas/aFvLb/SZLnKAkfCMZw Qp8yALhVzKoU7527tw+Y2Y67j+IACM0CfSJ8tW0p74xPzeRcwaRkwpTabY9tciP8WRHG D4nptoVyDZgeCxUbGYv+epiMDAU2Vg2kvi4wO5pltR155gcyqN94nSnTIgEwEc9QRvS1 gVO7M23IHNpBr4WVpVsKY2K37LWdmGJ0JOShjxGupoNPato3RudTcjc3GFcQtwicV56u Tl1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=o/zlpLZtG94xkrQUiI5cRKW1hGFOpZR6yNR5g4jtT18=; b=jyzs4lvj8OhdlxNhnuJzmw45DGdj4vSLgb4Hu61o7nmQQt3RyZLTUCeXsisb8Ahdhy d1le3EeXhahf2cWEEWt412nwmkAytbYkoCS7ev6tcUsgoIF4RjKhcJiUHoKn64XBiqM4 GQGODIxDfz7QzxOcHb1OxTtYptRs8NF64lS3WG6d4kx+LLDPF7Es6XQ4ejeYsKjBiXco cNuI1z6dNTaH1Av4qBl4KO6JajPutpXDOhI+J0iyG/w0tX4NCLjHOa/arxolWC8OxATY AJnHUGr0z6NxKS1qD9mTeU50fSjCMLwXNjvF7ngnr08dTK7EVqZHTkuVdGFTUqSowXJg r0vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532pakQpC6yEnxKNhBLLv1DEk2Kxdnk5Nv2RFmkuCPxMWa2+Yx6y 4oR6ns/XAZYDPp2FCFHXLeKG9Y0l0DPjqJtV4dQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwU1EFhdrLbA+bcBhx8QXZhnJM38bLlqLv3RELPnSRr28tN0az9HdNosXs+/c/KBvzUOUNNEMHi3j9gsBMarKc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:10d:: with SMTP id a13mr1207225ljb.25.1607521876004; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 05:51:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <44447C51-58FA-4756-92A0-BD0DBC26E44D@cisco.com> <0F281788-1B38-48FF-B8C0-0348DA388571@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0F281788-1B38-48FF-B8C0-0348DA388571@cisco.com> From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 19:21:04 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "lsr@ietf.org" , Tulasi Rami Reddy N Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000063536305b6085ac2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base X-BeenThere: lsr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Link State Routing Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 13:51:20 -0000 --00000000000063536305b6085ac2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Acee, We aren't generating any trap today for the subnet mismatch case. We wanted to get some feedback on what would be an appropriate trap to generate from a usability standpoint, if we want to generate one.. Regards, Muthu On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:09 PM Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Muthu, > > There isn=E2=80=99t a specific case for this specific error so I wouldn= =E2=80=99t reuse > the any of the specific ones with the trap. Like I said, some > implementations don=E2=80=99t generate any OSPF MIB trap for this case. W= hat are > you doing today? > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal = < > muthu.arul@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:18 AM > *To: *"Acee Lindem (acee)" > *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" , Tulasi Rami Reddy N < > tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > Hi Acee, > > > > This is a configuration error, right? Wouldn't ospfIfConfigError trap be > more appropriate? There is no good error code for this case > in ospfConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could have reserved some > error codes for future definitions? > > > > Regards, > > Muthu > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Acee Lindem (acee) 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Tulasi, > > You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMaskMismatch trap as thi= s is for > mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You could generate the > ospfIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case. > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > *From: *Lsr on behalf of Tulasi Rami Reddy N < > tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM > *To: *"lsr@ietf.org" > *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Base > > > > [ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated] > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both > conditions are met: > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2. Matching network mask. > > From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined. > > > > ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE > SYNTAX INTEGER { > > *netMaskMismatch (7),* > } > > > > I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). > > > > Let's take below example: > > > > RTA (11.1.1.2/24) -------- (10.1.1.1/24) RTB > > > > Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is > the error type to be set? > > Should this be considered as generic input processing error and > only generate > > *ospfIfRxBadPacket *notification or *netMaskMismatch *notification? > > Should we need a new type here? > > > > " > > The generic input processing of OSPF packets will > > have checked the validity of the IP header and the OSPF packet > > header." > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Tulasi. > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N > wrote: > > Hi , > > > > OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when > > 1. Common IP subnet > > 2.matching network mask. > > From the > > > > Thanks, > > TUlasi. > > _______________________________________________ > Lsr mailing list > Lsr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr > > --00000000000063536305b6085ac2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Acee,

We aren't generating any trap t= oday for the subnet mismatch case. We wanted to get some feedback on what w= ould be an appropriate trap to generate from a usability=C2=A0standpoint, i= f we want to generate one..

Regards,
Muthu

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:= 09 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.c= om> wrote:

Hi Muthu,

There isn=E2=80=99t a specific case for this specifi= c error so I wouldn=E2=80=99t reuse the any of the specific ones with the t= rap. Like I said, some implementations don=E2=80=99t generate any OSPF MIB = trap for this case. What are you doing today?

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> o= n behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 8:18 AM
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>= ;
Cc: "lsr@ietf= .org" <lsr@ie= tf.org>, Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

Hi Acee,

=C2=A0

This is a configuration error, right? W= ouldn't=C2=A0ospfIfConfigError trap be more appropriate? There is no good error code for this case in=C2=A0osp= fConfigErrorType, though. Perhaps, RFC4750 could have reserved some error codes for= future definitions?

=C2=A0

Regards,

Muthu

=C2=A0

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6= :16 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:<= u>

Hi Tulasi,

You definitely shouldn=E2=80=99t generate the netMaskMismatch trap as this = is for mask mismatch detection on hello packets. You could generate the osp= fIfRxBadPacket but many do not for this case.

Thanks,

Acee

=C2=A0

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Tulasi Ram= i Reddy N <tu= lasi.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 6:11 AM
To: "lsr@ietf= .org" <lsr@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] RFC4750: OSPF Version 2 Management Information Ba= se

=C2=A0

[ Sorry, My previous mail was truncated]

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only below both condition= s are met:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP s= ubnet=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2. Matching ne= twork mask.

>From the OSPFv2 MIB, there is only one error defined.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 ospfConfigErrorType OBJECT-TYPE
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 INTEGER { =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 netMaskMismatch (7),
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0

I believe this is for the case 2 (when mask is mismatched). <= /p>

=C2=A0

Let's take below example:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 RTA=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (11.1.1.2/24) =C2=A0 --------=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (10.1.1.1/24) RTB

=C2=A0

Here, src IP is not matching to the Rx interface IP subnet, then what is th= e error type to be set?

Should this be considered as generic input processing error and only=C2=A0g= enerate

ospfIfRxBadPacket notification or netMaskMismatch=C2=A0 notif= ication?

Should we need a new type here?

=C2=A0

"

The generic input processing of OSPF packets will

have checked the validity of the IP header a= nd the OSPF packet

header.&= quot;=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Tulasi.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:27 PM Tulasi Rami Reddy N <tulasi.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:=

Hi ,

=C2=A0

OSPFv2 adjacency will be formed on a numbered LAN only when <= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1. Common IP s= ubnet

2.matching network mask.

>From the

=C2=A0

Thanks,

TUlasi.

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