From root@core3.amsl.com Tue Jun 1 13:15:11 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltans@ietf.org Delivered-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 5278F3A6AE2; Tue, 1 Jun 2010 13:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100601201509.5278F3A6AE2@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 13:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ltans@ietf.org Subject: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt X-BeenThere: ltans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: LTANS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 20:15:11 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary Services Working Group of the IETF. Title : Extensible Markup Language Evidence Record Syntax Author(s) : A. Blazic, S. Saljic, T. Gondrom Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt Pages : 49 Date : 2010-6-1 In many scenarios, users must be able to demonstrate the (time) existence, integrity and validity of data including signed data for long or undetermined period of time. This document specifies XML syntax and processing rules for creating evidence for long-term non- repudiation of existence of data. ERS-XML incorporates alternative syntax and processing rules to ASN.1 ERS syntax by using XML language. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2010-6-1131101.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From CWallace@cygnacom.com Mon Jun 7 11:20:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839AB3A6784 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRwNmV15A2rN for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail95.messagelabs.com (mail95.messagelabs.com [216.82.242.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E287B3A67AC for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:20:00 -0700 (PDT) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: CWallace@cygnacom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-95.messagelabs.com!1275934800!94190932!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [65.242.48.19] Received: (qmail 17476 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2010 18:20:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygexch1.cygnacom.com) (65.242.48.19) by server-13.tower-95.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2010 18:20:01 -0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:19:59 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt Thread-Index: AcrwgMoPi21njgYxSCKTcxUpktxlsQAn05yQApJlGsACwQygsA== References: <20100510201504.27A9228C1F7@core3.amsl.com> From: "Carl Wallace" To: Subject: Re: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt X-BeenThere: ltans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: LTANS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 18:20:03 -0000 Working group last call for this draft has ended. The authors received some off list editorial comments so I anticipate one more version before forwarding to the AD. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltans-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Carl Wallace > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 1:52 PM > To: ltans@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt >=20 > Just a reminder, the last call for XMLERS ends next Friday - June 4th. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ltans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltans-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > > Of Carl Wallace > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:46 AM > > To: ltans@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt > > > > Greetings, > > > > After a lengthy hibernation period for the working group, last call > for > > this draft will start today and end June 4th. Please take some time > to > > review this draft and send any comments to the list (Sean Turner has > > already sent a few). > > > > Carl > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ltans-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltans-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf > > > Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > > > Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 4:15 PM > > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > Cc: ltans@ietf.org > > > Subject: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > > directories. > > > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary > > Services > > > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > > > Title : Extensible Markup Language Evidence Record > > Syntax > > > Author(s) : A. Blazic, S. Saljic, T. Gondrom > > > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt > > > Pages : 50 > > > Date : 2010-5-8 > > > > > > In many scenarios, users must be able to demonstrate the (time) > > > existence, integrity and validity of data including signed data > > for > > > long or undetermined period of time. This document specifies XML > > > syntax and processing rules for creating evidence for long-term > > non- > > > repudiation of existence of data. ERS-XML incorporates > alternative > > > syntax and processing rules to ASN.1 ERS syntax by using XML > > > language. > > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-05.txt > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > > Internet-Draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security > System. > > > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > ltans mailing list > > ltans@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltans > _______________________________________________ > ltans mailing list > ltans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltans From tgondrom@gmx.net Sat Jun 12 10:32:03 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16A63A697F for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_12=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qCVvzZyss7Im for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B86C33A6925 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Jun 2010 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from static-16-148-145-212.ipcom.comunitel.net (EHLO [10.4.243.123]) [212.145.148.16] by mail.gmx.net (mp070) with SMTP; 12 Jun 2010 19:32:02 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1793214 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+jbLJTGVuj8Mh7Kk5xMiNvVySYbjL0Tq5pgN9Yoo vy1vSEE1otvgzP Message-ID: <4C13C490.8080103@gmx.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:32:00 +0200 From: Tobias Gondrom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 SUSE/3.0.4-1.1.1 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ltans@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000006090807040704000100" X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: [ltans] Fwd: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt X-BeenThere: ltans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: LTANS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:32:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000006090807040704000100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems the following email did not get delivered by our mailing-list. So posted again. BR, Tobias -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:06:38 +0100 From: Tobias Gondrom To: ltans@ietf.org Dear Aljosa, thanks a lot for the great update version 06! I sent a few more purely editorial comments to you directly and have identified the following questions we should resolve on the mailing-list as other might have them as well: 1. Some more general questions about consistency of used terminology: - There is some inconsistency in the spelling (start with capital or small letter) of Evidence record? Shall we use "Evidence Record" or "evidence record" - same applies for Archive Time-Stamp/Archive Time Stamp/Archive Timestamp - same for in-sentence use of "type" and "Type" I have no preference, just think we should use consistent terms throughout the draft. In case you like, in RFC4998 when referring to a data structure we started with the capital letter and otherwise we used timestamp / evidence reocrd using the small letters. Maybe not the best solution either. As I said I have no personal preference for this. Questions: 2. section 3.1.1. paragraph 2: old: concatenated and a new hash value is generated from that string (there is exception when the first list is having one hash value, then this value is added to the next list). new: concatenated and a new hash value is generated from that string. There is an exception when the first list has only one hash value, in which case this value is the root hash value). comment: at least that's how I would understand it, otherwise it seems to trigger an endless recursive circle. The current wording seemed incorrect, but maybe I misunderstood s.th here? 3. section 3.2. item #2 Question: where is "canonicalization method C" defined or referenced??? 4. section 3.3. item#4: "If an archive object is having more data objects and the hash tree is omitted, also exit with result." Question: I am not sure why we have to exit in this case with (you probably mean negative) result??? Do we? And if yes, why? 5. section 4.2.1 Question about "the complete content of the last ATS MUST be time-stamped" Why is that? I thought only the old time-stamp has to be protected/renewed with a new timestamp? So we would not need to do this to the whole ATS structure.(btw. see also RFC4998, section 5 does it only on the timestamp) Or do I misunderstand s.th.? Thanks a lot, Tobias Ps.: unfortunately the IETF mailing-lists were down last week, so I hope this email will now eventually be delivered. On 01/06/10 21:15, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary Services Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Extensible Markup Language Evidence Record Syntax > Author(s) : A. Blazic, S. Saljic, T. Gondrom > Filename : draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt > Pages : 49 > Date : 2010-6-1 > > In many scenarios, users must be able to demonstrate the (time) > existence, integrity and validity of data including signed data for > long or undetermined period of time. This document specifies XML > syntax and processing rules for creating evidence for long-term non- > repudiation of existence of data. ERS-XML incorporates alternative > syntax and processing rules to ASN.1 ERS syntax by using XML > language. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > > _______________________________________________ > ltans mailing list > ltans@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltans > --------------000006090807040704000100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It seems the following email did not get delivered by our mailing-list.
So posted again.
BR, Tobias


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ltans] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:06:38 +0100
From: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
To: ltans@ietf.org


Dear Aljosa,

thanks a lot for the great update version 06!
I sent a few more purely editorial comments to you directly and have identified the following questions we should resolve on the mailing-list as other might have them as well:

1. Some more general questions about consistency of used terminology:
- There is some inconsistency in the spelling (start with capital or small letter) of Evidence record?
Shall we use "Evidence Record" or "evidence record"
- same applies for Archive Time-Stamp/Archive Time Stamp/Archive Timestamp
- same for in-sentence use of "type" and "Type"

I have no preference, just think we should use consistent terms throughout the draft.
In case you like, in RFC4998 when referring to a data structure we started with the capital letter and otherwise we used timestamp / evidence reocrd using the small letters. Maybe not the best solution either.
As I said I have no personal preference for this.

Questions:
2. section 3.1.1. paragraph 2:
old: concatenated and a new hash value is generated from that string (there is exception when the first list is having one hash value, then this value is added to the next list).
new: concatenated and a new hash value is generated from that string. There is an exception when the first list has only one hash value, in which case this value is the root hash value).
comment: at least that's how I would understand it, otherwise it seems to trigger an endless recursive circle.
The current wording seemed incorrect, but maybe I misunderstood s.th here?

3. section 3.2. item #2
Question: where is "canonicalization method C" defined or referenced???

4. section 3.3. item#4:
"If an archive object is having more data objects and the hash tree is omitted, also exit with result."
Question: I am not sure why we have to exit in this case with (you probably mean negative) result???
Do we? And if yes, why?

5. section 4.2.1
Question about "the complete content of the last ATS MUST be time-stamped"
Why is that? I thought only the old time-stamp has to be protected/renewed with a new timestamp?
So we would not need to do this to the whole ATS structure.(btw. see also RFC4998, section 5 does it only on the timestamp) Or do I misunderstand s.th.?

Thanks a lot, Tobias


Ps.: unfortunately the IETF mailing-lists were down last week, so I hope this email will now eventually be delivered.



On 01/06/10 21:15, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: 
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Long-Term Archive and Notary Services Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Extensible Markup Language Evidence Record Syntax
	Author(s)	: A. Blazic, S. Saljic, T. Gondrom
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt
	Pages		: 49
	Date		: 2010-6-1
	
In many scenarios, users must be able to demonstrate the (time) 
   existence, integrity and validity of data including signed data for 
   long or undetermined period of time. This document specifies XML 
   syntax and processing rules for creating evidence for long-term non-
   repudiation of existence of data. ERS-XML incorporates alternative 
   syntax and processing rules to ASN.1 ERS syntax by using XML 
   language.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltans-xmlers-06.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.
  

_______________________________________________
ltans mailing list
ltans@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltans

--------------000006090807040704000100-- From tgondrom@gmx.net Sat Jun 12 10:33:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltans@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53EF33A6986 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:33:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.699, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ra88jt-lW2I5 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 122D33A6925 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 12 Jun 2010 17:33:25 -0000 Received: from static-16-148-145-212.ipcom.comunitel.net (EHLO [10.4.243.123]) [212.145.148.16] by mail.gmx.net (mp059) with SMTP; 12 Jun 2010 19:33:25 +0200 X-Authenticated: #1793214 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19nTW0IyIlnmX8EZ6+yTdklJS+ljUzLsWSJgx7afd TT3SDiclsQVn83 Message-ID: <4C13C4E4.2070503@gmx.net> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:33:24 +0200 From: Tobias Gondrom User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 SUSE/3.0.4-1.1.1 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ltans@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: Re: [ltans] WG meeting in Maastricht - agenda topics? X-BeenThere: ltans@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: LTANS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 17:33:28 -0000 It seems the following email did not get delivered by our mailing-list. So posted again. BR, Tobias On 07/06/10 20:37, Tobias Gondrom wrote: > Hello dear wg members, > > there will be a last WG meeting of LTANS in Maastricht and as our work > is nearly done, we can hopefully shut the WG down afterwards. > > So far the plan is for 1 hour and 2-3 presentations. > One about XMLERS (Aljosa?) > one about putting all LTANS drafts together. > And one open final open discussion round (basically a "speak-up now or > remain forever silent" ;-) ) > If you have any further suggestions for agenda topics, please write to > me at tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org. > > Kind regards and looking forward to see you all in Maastricht, > > Tobias > LTANS co-chair > > > Tobias Gondrom > Sloan Fellowship 2009 > London Business School > email: tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org > mobile: +447521003005 >