From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 01 03:26:24 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELblH-0006NY-J0; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 03:26:23 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELblB-0006MF-DM for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 03:26:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01847 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 03:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELbeQ-0004Et-52 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 03:19:19 -0400 Received: from spam.cs.tut.fi (unknown [10.11.18.2]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F90B8C for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:10:47 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by spam.cs.tut.fi (spam.cs.tut.fi [10.11.18.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29532-01 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:10:47 +0300 (EEST) Received: from korppi.cs.tut.fi (korppi.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6D8B84 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:10:47 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 10:10:46 +0300 (EEST) From: "Jukka K. Korpela" To: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20050930154823.06109cb0@localhost> Message-ID: References: <433AE893.4030304@icu-project.org> <433AEF9C.9070405@icu-project.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20050929161500.03a4db40@localhost> <6.0.0.20.2.20050930154823.06109cb0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.tut.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Martin Duerst wrote: > I wanted to bring [language negotation in HTTP] up because: > - We could decide that this was the right thing (or good enough at least), > and simply point to it (other specs can easily reference that part of > the HTTP spec if they want). > - We could decide that this was the right thing (or good enough at least), > and copy the text for one-stop-shopping by other standards. > - We could look at it, try to understand why it is the way it is, > and come away with the conclusion that we need something different. That's quite a challenge. Starting from the last option, it would probably take a lot of time it would require experimentation - not just technical but with "normal users" testing the feasibility of the ideas and principles, for different language skill and preferences profiles. The other two options sound tempting, and they would be technically easy. Yet, the complexity of the third option implies that we could not know whether we have taken the right path. I'm afraid the only realistic alternative would be the fourth one: - mention the language negotiation mechanism as one possible use of language preferences information, in a context where there is definitely need for more detailed expression of preferences than simply naming (by code) the most preferred language >> It deals with a specific mechanism, content negotiation, which lets an HTTP > server and a client negotiate on the choice of a language version. > > Well, yes, it's a specific thing, but it's not too difficult to see > how this could be used in other cases. To me, it is. Or let's say that I don't think it's a suitable approach in many other cases, and I have little idea of what might be suitable, except in a few cases. >> (This has, sadly enough, been used rather on multilingual sites.) > > Not sure I get this. It was designed for multilingual sites. > Did you want to say "it is used rather rarely on multilingual sites"? Yes. Well guessed. (It seems I all too often mistype so that I omit the most important word.) Language negotiation is used on some sites, often on sites that somehow relate to technologies of internationalization and localization, and that's fine and natural. But on most sites that are genuinely multilingual, language negotiation is not used. Even the site of the European Union does not use it, and this can hardly depend on lack of resources or on lack of political will to support multilingualism. > Or is there something else that you don't like in the way it is used? Quite a many features actually. For one thing, the language preferences settings in users browsers are so often wrong in the sense of not actually reflecting the user's understanding and preferences. I would say that they are wrong more often than correct, e.g. because the user has an English-language version of a browser, with some default settings that make "en" the only language, or worse still "en-US", quite independently of the user's native language and other languages. How _could_ the preferences be correct e.g. in a computer used in a public library? This is probably one explanation to why the mechanism is rarely used. Why take the trouble when you know that the results will so often be wrong? In the long run, such problems could be solved, if web browsers explicitly requested for the user's language preferences upon installation and the preferences themselves could be easily stored so that they can be transferred from one computer or browser to another, perhaps as part of a collection of preferences. (Most of us use different computers, if not different browsers, and it's really frustrating to set all the personal preferences, including language preferences, every time you start using a new computer. In reality, people mostly don't even try.) Apart from such issues, which are of general nature, the language negotiation mechanism itself as defined in HTTP is problematic for a wide range of uses. It is based on the assumption that a user's preferences are expressed as a set of language/q-value pairs. (It's really a set, not a list; the order is insignificant, the q-values define the weights.) In practice, most browsers assign the q-values themselves, on the basis of the order of languages. This indicates that browser vendors regard the q-value system as too difficult to users. And it isn't really that intuitive. Yet, the actual mechanism works on them. The q-values are defined as weights, but what do the numbers relate to. If I have q=0.95 for "de", would that mean that I understand 95 % of German text on the average? If not, what does it mean? -- Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 01 12:41:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELkQl-0007rN-Bo; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:41:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELkQj-0007rA-9E for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:41:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09602 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELkYn-0002IA-C9 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:50:07 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1ELkQV-0005Fu-9V; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:41:31 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051001124500.04ac1d70@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:57:22 +0200 To: "Jukka K. Korpela" , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists In-Reply-To: References: <433AE893.4030304@icu-project.org> <433AEF9C.9070405@icu-project.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20050929161500.03a4db40@localhost> <6.0.0.20.2.20050930154823.06109cb0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1e467ff145ef391eb7b594ef62b8301f Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org _Full_ agreement with Jukka. At 09:10 01/10/2005, Jukka K. Korpela wrote: >On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Martin Duerst wrote: > >>I wanted to bring [language negotation in HTTP] up because: >>- We could decide that this was the right thing (or good enough at least), >> and simply point to it (other specs can easily reference that part of >> the HTTP spec if they want). >>- We could decide that this was the right thing (or good enough at least), >> and copy the text for one-stop-shopping by other standards. >>- We could look at it, try to understand why it is the way it is, >> and come away with the conclusion that we need something different. > >That's quite a challenge. Starting from the last option, it would >probably take a lot of time it would require experimentation - not >just technical >but with "normal users" testing the feasibility of the ideas and >principles, for different language skill and preferences profiles. >The other two options sound tempting, and they would be technically easy. >Yet, the complexity of the third option implies that we could not know >whether we have taken the right path. I'm afraid the only realistic >alternative would be the fourth one: >- mention the language negotiation mechanism as one possible > use of language preferences information, in a context where > there is definitely need for more detailed expression of > preferences than simply naming (by code) the most preferred language Martin's last option is however a necessary prerequisite to fully understand what we talk about. I was mistaken in believing that this was part of this WG Charter, and we could this way maintain compatibility through the digital convergence and avoid errors. Experience, and comments on the EITF main list about WSIS, show the subject is too "challenging" for the IETF Charter. Too bad because I know no other area to carry it: it has to be created. This is not small task. In the meanwhile I support Jukka's fourth option. Jukka's solution is perfect as it permits to work in parallel on general negotiation mechanisms when needed - I would think for fine tuning like between Web Services or dialects, etc. (what does not prevent the working use of major languages to better see the issues). I suggested Addison a dedicated RFC so the IETF would have a consistent interapplication/protocol negotiation mechanism (giving the same result whatever the application/OPES). It also permits the qualification of the space of exchanges the users has selected. Which is a part of his right "not to receive what he does not want" - this is a major user comportment oriented right/demand (ex. spam) which definitely oppose the langtag concept. >>>It deals with a specific mechanism, content negotiation, which lets an HTTP >>server and a client negotiate on the choice of a language version. >> >>Well, yes, it's a specific thing, but it's not too difficult to see >>how this could be used in other cases. > >To me, it is. Or let's say that I don't think it's a suitable >approach in many other cases, and I have little idea of what might be suitable, >except in a few cases. Yes. This is why a lot of work has to be carried. You cannot trust negotiation mechanisms at this stage to accept the proper content you want. At this stage one can consider it an insecure/uncertain help. >>>(This has, sadly enough, been used rather on multilingual sites.) >> >>Not sure I get this. It was designed for multilingual sites. >>Did you want to say "it is used rather rarely on multilingual sites"? > >Yes. Well guessed. (It seems I all too often mistype so that I omit >the most important word.) > >Language negotiation is used on some sites, often on sites that >somehow relate to technologies of internationalization and >localization, and that's fine and natural. But on most sites that >are genuinely multilingual, language negotiation is not used. Even >the site of the European Union does not use it, and this can hardly >depend on lack of resources or on lack of political will to support >multilingualism. This is the overlooked fundamental problem. Harald's RFC line is limited to internationalisation/localisation. Multilingual and Vernacular are foreign concepts to IETF. Paul Hoffman's RFC 3536 on vocabulary shows it. Remarks of John Klensin on this list too (from past debates I feel to recall that John has a vision of vernacularisation he opposes? But it is true that the "mono-Internet" technology imposes all the related features to be supported as options what increases complexity and risks of conflicts). One reproaches me to extend to principles when discussing details. The problem - and this is the very reason of the European Union current attitude so debated on the main list - is that the current Internet architecture does not deliver enough for all these details to be supported. I accept that people usually do not phrase it as I do, not being network architects. But this is what they identify everywhere, in their own words. As I will be contested on this, let me document it. I created with Louis Pouzin and others people Eurolinc (European Languages Internet Conference). This is a ccTLD and WSIS accredited lingual organisation. Nearly one page of the Geneva action plan has been proposed by Louis as Eurolinc. I sponsored our first Chair, Jean-Louis Grange who contributed with him to the TCP/IP design (ask Vin Cerf). This is to say they are Internet orthodox network founders. JLG had some years ago to direct the site of the French European presidency. He did not lack experience, money, time and expertise around him. His presentation fully confirms what Jukka says. On July 1st, I hold a workshop at EGENI 2005 on multilingualism. The person in charge of the European policy and culture was one the guest speakers I invited. He said nothing different. In the few ISO TC37 French, European and international meetings I attended, the position was the same. etc. etc. >>Or is there something else that you don't like in the way it is used? > >Quite a many features actually. For one thing, the language >preferences settings in users browsers are so often wrong in the >sense of not actually reflecting the user's understanding and >preferences. I would say that they are wrong more often than >correct, e.g. because the user has an English-language version of a >browser, with some default settings that make "en" the only >language, or worse still "en-US", quite independently of the user's >native language and other languages. The word "wrong" may be too strong in most of the cases (except when the mental structure inherited from the language is hardly compatible with the one inherited from en-US)? Anyway this is why dual language standardisation using two sister languages of strong different perception (French and English) is important for pertinence and QA. To make this easier to understand, please consider the word "understand, en" and "comprendre, fr". This is the basic word for a user facing a machine and trying to use its screen. In the two languages they correspond to the same function for this user. But conceptually they nearly oppose. The English "understanding" will be bottom-up (what is under what stands) and the French "comprendre" will be of "everything together". If you consider the Italian "capire" what comes from the Chief (top down), the Spanish "entiende" for what are the links between, etc. In German, Japanese, etc. This underlay concepts which shape cultures and ways of interfacing with the reality. You better understand why the way a browser, Word, etc. SHOULD be designed to fully support the user/author brain might have to be very different. >How _could_ the preferences be correct e.g. in a computer used in a >public library? How _could_ the preferences be correct e.g. in a computer built to fit the world? >This is probably one explanation to why the mechanism is rarely used. >Why take the trouble when you know that the results will so often be wrong? Just a minute: this is questioning the legitimacy of this whole WG! However there are cases where another cultural/lingual vision may take over. This is in particular true in global needs such as legal aspects, technology issues, for the part the participants want global. For example international e-commerce, international commercial right, IETF, etc. In such cases, with people educated to that kind of cultural/language overlay, it can perfectly work. This is why I do not object the deliverable of this WG (only its pretension to exclusive) and I tried to get it as precise as possible. The Internet legacy can permit to use it as a default, during some while, among people who have been initially used to en-US. As long as the proposed solution also supports the multilingualisation and the vernacularisation they need. I hope the debate on the IETF main list on the WSIS and the attitude of all the countries but one (including Europe) will help en-US people (American mother tongue people and people from countries where there is an important domain loss to English [one of the most usually quoted ones being Norway]) to understand that. >In the long run, such problems could be solved, if web browsers >explicitly requested for the user's language preferences upon >installation and the preferences themselves could be easily stored >so that they can be transferred from one computer or browser to >another, perhaps as part >of a collection of preferences. (Most of us use different computers, >if not different browsers, and it's really frustrating to set all >the personal preferences, including language preferences, every time >you start using a new computer. In reality, people mostly don't even try.) This is a good description of a part of the work we engaged and we name the DRS (distributed registry system) and Unicode people work on a small but important part with CLDR (locales) - what could make us unnecessary competitors. This work can be achieved in different ways and the task is enormous. In staying at what I call the "mono-Internet" level one has not the vision and the tools to address it another way than by constraint. The RFC 3066 has leaks listed in our Charter. The response the WG is let lock the bolts, when I say let open the doors and let the inside and outside be the same. The way to do that is in having everything ISO 11179 compliant (the locale is a registry). The variation of country, community, corporation, family, personal "locales", not only for the computer, but for the network, the applications, the Telephone, the TV, the appliances, the cars, etc. etc. IS a complex thing. It is also the true spine of the pervasive network continuity. The first problem is to describe it and to standardise that description. When collectively debating this we may want to recall that most of the Members of this WG see these need as an added need: their common/basic personal need, experience and usage is satisfied by the built-in en-US oriented defaults. >Apart from such issues, which are of general nature, the language >negotiation mechanism itself as defined in HTTP is problematic >for a wide range of uses. It is based on the assumption that a >user's preferences are expressed as a set of language/q-value pairs. >(It's really a set, not a list; the order is insignificant, the >q-values define the weights.) In practice, most browsers assign the >q-values themselves, on the basis of the order of languages. This >indicates that browser vendors regard the q-value system as too >difficult to users. And it isn't really >that intuitive. Yet, the actual mechanism works on them. > >The q-values are defined as weights, but what do the numbers relate >to. If I have q=0.95 for "de", would that mean that I understand 95 % of >German text on the average? If not, what does it mean? An interesting test protocol we discussed at AILF (French Speaking Engineers Association) meeting attended by academics from Sweden, Tunisia, Algeria, Japan, China, Senegal, etc. was that every member of a multilingual mailing list would give his DIQ (Differential IQ), i.e. the loss of IQ when tested in the different languages of the people of the list (you can certainly guess questions in languages you do not know, the same as you may have to guess what others may want to say in the list language). They carried a test in Sweden, to analyse the mental speed (time to address a set of questions) in Swedish and in English. The panel was more than 1000 students if I am correct. And the results consistent. I have the name of a searcher to contact, somewhere in my archives if someone is interested. The speed loss was significant. This is the test which triggered the http://nicso.org/equilang.htm proposition. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 01 16:41:00 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELoAG-0002lU-35; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:41:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ELoAC-0002l6-KA for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:40:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18422 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.67]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ELoII-0007gV-Sd for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:49:21 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-5-51.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.5.51] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ELoA4-0000xI-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:40:48 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c5c6c8$d44b7140$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <433AE893.4030304@icu-project.org> <433AEF9C.9070405@icu-project.org><6.0.0.20.2.20050929161500.03a4db40@localhost><6.0.0.20.2.20050930154823.06109cb0@localhost> Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:43:49 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - (as a technical contributor) > From: "Jukka K. Korpela" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 12:10 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists ... > The other two options sound tempting, and they would be technically easy. > Yet, the complexity of the third option implies that we could not know > whether we have taken the right path. I'm afraid the only realistic > alternative would be the fourth one: > - mention the language negotiation mechanism as one possible > use of language preferences information, in a context where > there is definitely need for more detailed expression of > preferences than simply naming (by code) the most preferred language ... Total agreement. Our charter is quite narrow and specific regarding this deliverable. It says: | The second document will describe matching algorithms for use with | language tags. Language tags are used in a broad variety of contexts | and it is not expected that any single matching algorithm will fit all | needs. Developing a small set of common matching algorithms does seem | likely to contribute to interoperability, however, as it seems likely | that using protocols could reference these well-known algorithms in | their specifications. I believe the fact that it talks about "matching algorithms" rather than "negotiation mechanisms" is important, and has direct consequences for the document. Specifically, what we say about negotiation mechanisms will need to be non-normative, included merely as use cases justifying our decision to document specific algorithms. Now, if the working group wants to define algorithms that are not used by any existing negotiation or retrieval mechanism, that's ok, but keep in mind that if this document is to ever advance reach the Draft Standard level, any mechanisms that are not used by multiple interoperable implementations will need to be removed, under the provisions of RFC 2026 section 4.1.2 which says: | The requirement for at least two independent and interoperable | implementations applies to all of the options and features of the | specification. In cases in which one or more options or features | have not been demonstrated in at least two interoperable | implementations, the specification may advance to the Draft Standard | level only if those options or features are removed. So, before we get too creative, I think its good to consider which protocols require and can actually use the mechanisms proposed. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 09:38:14 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM42g-0007uQ-10; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:38:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM42e-0007tz-NZ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:38:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15416 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.123]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4As-00016n-5g for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:46:44 -0400 Received: from mailout2.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.120]) by mail3.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:37:55 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:37:55 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] matching comments: use of prefixes Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:37:56 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching comments: use of prefixes Thread-Index: AcXEw/WgcS/nk9xAQbeAbj16W7ohLQCkTNQQ From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 13:37:55.0982 (UTC) FILETIME=[7EE292E0:01C5C756] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Harald Tveit Alvestrand > There will always be some ranges that it doesn't make sense to search over. > And the standard is not going into the business of saying which those are. It might be useful to give an actual example. For someone that deals only with tags like en... fr... de... it's counter-intuitive to suggest that not all varieties that share those prefixes would be reasonably mutually intelligible. Peter Constable _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 09:45:21 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM49Z-0002AH-DM; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:45:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM49Y-0002A8-VS for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:45:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15716 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.125]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4Hp-0001IG-I9 for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:53:54 -0400 Received: from mailout2.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.120]) by mail1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:45:10 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:45:09 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:45:10 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes Thread-Index: AcXFB0RtvmrEBouGRTK0ttMmFv4m1gAAT4OwAAh51kAAiyZxUA== From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 13:45:10.0088 (UTC) FILETIME=[81A1E480:01C5C757] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Addison Phillips > Okay, here's what I have now: ... > mutually intelligible enough to be useful and this form of matching has > historically been to most prevalent. s/be "the most prevalent" > Cases do exist in which care has to be applied to the selection of the > language range. This is especially true when the language range encloses > multiple, widely divergent dialects. For example, the language range "sgn" In a case like "sgn", we're talking about entirely unrelated languages, not just widely divergent dialects. I suggest revising the wording to "encloses multiple, widely divergent linguistic varieties." Peter Constable _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 09:49:21 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4DR-0004JV-Il; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:49:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4DQ-0004JO-I8 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:49:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15868 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 09:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.125]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4Lh-0001Oe-6a for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:57:54 -0400 Received: from mailout1.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.117]) by mail1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:49:09 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:49:09 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 06:49:10 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes Thread-Index: AcXFOKO8MTT/4YnTSDegjYAg+333wAADXBHwAIR2TbA= From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 13:49:10.0112 (UTC) FILETIME=[10B2A600:01C5C758] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Addison Phillips > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:45 PM > So then... It appears you removed the example of sgn. I suggest that the example be kept. Peter Constable _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 10:02:45 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4QP-0000hk-2j; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:02:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4QN-0000hf-1U for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:02:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA16346 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.123]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4Yd-0001fr-Mr for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:11:17 -0400 Received: from mailout2.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.120]) by mail3.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:02:32 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:02:32 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Language Ranges Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:02:33 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Language Ranges Thread-Index: AcXFISuUS++VFGzqSiO3/RocTfpL/ACOFM8g From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 14:02:32.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[EEDDFEB0:01C5C759] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Davis > >I too have a large list of languages in my > browser preferences and cannot recall ever seeing a website return > something other than the first language or a default language if that > wasn't available... > That is because your first language is probably English. Try it with > or and see how often your second > item comes up! No, a better test would be one that leaves out English entirely, such as . If you use English as the second choice, it may not be clear if the server really looked at that or was merely delivering its default fallback. Peter Constable _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 10:18:04 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4fE-0007VP-KN; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:18:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4fD-0007VI-E0 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:18:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA17597 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.123]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4nV-0001zu-2m for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:26:37 -0400 Received: from mailout1.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.117]) by mail3.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:17:53 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:17:53 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:17:53 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Thread-Index: AcXGyI7ghsUOiZ8rQyGKAqAdSYrB5QAkweug From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 14:17:53.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[14262510:01C5C75C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1755926104==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1755926104== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PiBGcm9tOiBsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzpsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v cmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZg0KPiBSYW5keSBQcmVzdWhuDQoNCg0KPiBUb3RhbCBhZ3JlZW1lbnQu ICAgIE91ciBjaGFydGVyIGlzIHF1aXRlIG5hcnJvdyBhbmQgc3BlY2lmaWMgcmVnYXJkaW5nDQo+ IHRoaXMNCj4gZGVsaXZlcmFibGUuICBJdCBzYXlzOg0KPiANCj4gfCBUaGUgc2Vjb25kIGRvY3Vt ZW50IHdpbGwgZGVzY3JpYmUgbWF0Y2hpbmcgYWxnb3JpdGhtcyBmb3IgdXNlIHdpdGgNCj4gfCBs YW5ndWFnZSB0YWdzLiBMYW5ndWFnZSB0YWdzIGFyZSB1c2VkIGluIGEgYnJvYWQgdmFyaWV0eSBv ZiBjb250ZXh0cw0KPiB8IGFuZCBpdCBpcyBub3QgZXhwZWN0ZWQgdGhhdCBhbnkgc2luZ2xlIG1h dGNoaW5nIGFsZ29yaXRobSB3aWxsIGZpdCBhbGwNCj4gfCBuZWVkcy4gRGV2ZWxvcGluZyBhIHNt YWxsIHNldCBvZiBjb21tb24gbWF0Y2hpbmcgYWxnb3JpdGhtcyBkb2VzIHNlZW0NCj4gfCBsaWtl bHkgdG8gY29udHJpYnV0ZSB0byBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5LCBob3dldmVyLCBhcyBpdCBzZWVt cyBsaWtlbHkNCj4gfCB0aGF0IHVzaW5nIHByb3RvY29scyBjb3VsZCByZWZlcmVuY2UgdGhlc2Ug d2VsbC1rbm93biBhbGdvcml0aG1zIGluDQo+IHwgdGhlaXIgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMuDQo+IA0K PiBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCBpdCB0YWxrcyBhYm91dCAibWF0Y2hpbmcgYWxnb3Jp dGhtcyIgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4NCj4gIm5lZ290aWF0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMiIGlzIGltcG9ydGFu dCwgYW5kIGhhcyBkaXJlY3QgY29uc2VxdWVuY2VzDQo+IGZvciB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQuICBTcGVj aWZpY2FsbHksIHdoYXQgd2Ugc2F5IGFib3V0IG5lZ290aWF0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMNCj4gd2ls bCBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIG5vbi1ub3JtYXRpdmUsIGluY2x1ZGVkIG1lcmVseSBhcyB1c2UgY2FzZXMg anVzdGlmeWluZw0KPiBvdXIgZGVjaXNpb24gdG8gZG9jdW1lbnQgc3BlY2lmaWMgYWxnb3JpdGht cy4NCg0KSSBhZ3JlZS4gRm9yIHRoYXQgcmVhc29uLCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaWYgd2Ugd2FudCB0 byBpbmNsdWRlIHNvbWUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvZiBsYW5ndWFnZSByYW5nZSBsaXN0cywgdGhlbiAo aSkgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGJlY2F1c2Ugd2UgdGhpbmsgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgaXNz dWVzIGluIHJlbGF0aW9uIHRvIG1hdGNoaW5nIG9uIGxpc3RzIG9mIHJhbmdlcyB0aGF0IG5lZWQg cGFydGljdWxhciBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9uIG92ZXIgYW5kIGFib3ZlIG1hdGNoaW5nIGEgc2luZ2xl IHJhbmdlIGFsb25lLCBhbmQgKGlpKSB3ZSBzaG91bGQgbm90IGdpdmUgYW55IHNwZWNpZmljYXRp b24gb2Ygc3ludGF4IGZvciBsaXN0czogdGhhdCBpcyBlbnRpcmVseSB1cCB0byB0aGUgcGFydGlj dWxhciBuZWdvdGlhdGlvbiBwcm90b2NvbCB0byBkZXRlcm1pbmUuDQoNCg0KDQpQZXRlciBDb25z dGFibGUNCg== --===============1755926104== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1755926104==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 10:21:32 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4ia-0000DM-HX; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:21:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM4iY-0000Cl-QS for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:21:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA17925 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 10:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.125]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM4qp-00024p-LM for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:30:04 -0400 Received: from mailout2.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.120]) by mail1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:21:20 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:21:20 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] 2.6 Length Considerations in Matching Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:21:20 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] 2.6 Length Considerations in Matching Thread-Index: AcXEcqKulmTNByaOQPawIwJeKmwnAwC6cMcQ From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2005 14:21:20.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F236F70:01C5C75C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1027409747==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1027409747== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PiBNYXJrIERhdmlzIHNjcmlwc2l0Og0KPiA+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaW50ZXItbG9jYWxlLmNvbS9J RC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWx0cnUtbWF0Y2hpbmctMDQuaHRtbCNsZW5ndGgNCj4gPg0KPiA+IEEuIFBh cnRzIG9mIHRoaXMgc2VjdGlvbiBhcmUgaG9sZG92ZXJzIGZyb20gdGhlIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRhZyBk b2N1bWVudC4NCj4gPiBJbiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB0aGlzIHNlY3Rpb24gc2hvdWxkIG5vdCByZXBl YXQgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIG9mDQo+ID4gbGltaXRhdGlvbnMgb24gbGVuZ3RoIGluIHN0b3Jh Z2UuIFRodXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBzaG91bGQgYmUgcmVtb3ZlZDoNCg0KKzENCg0KDQpQZXRl ciBDb25zdGFibGUNCg== --===============1027409747== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1027409747==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 02 13:05:12 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM7Gy-0002G0-2g; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:05:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EM7Gw-0002EX-OG for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:05:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA23774 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.145]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EM7PF-0005nh-2A for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:13:46 -0400 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j92H4vUY016632 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:04:57 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j92H4vbb101090 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:04:57 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j92H4uAb018973 for ; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:04:57 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-122-195.mts.ibm.com [9.48.122.195]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j92H4sTq018947; Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:04:56 -0400 Message-ID: <43401334.7090708@icu-project.org> Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 10:04:52 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Constable Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org My concern with language range lists is that the lookup is *not* simply looking up each language until you get a match, either in the Accept-Language language range lists, the Apple language range lists, or the CLDR language range lists. So I would like *at least* an informative note to that effect, that people know that they should not simply apply the matching algorithms listed in the document to a list. I suggest something like the following language. 2.3 Language Range Lists A language range list is a ordered list of zero or more language ranges, perhaps with additional structure to give additional priorities among the elements of the list. These are used in Accept-Language [Accept-Lang], and in various implementations such as Apple's language lookup and CLDR's language fallback. The lookup and matching within language range lists require somewhat different lookup and matching mechanisms in order to produce reasonable results, so it should not be assumed that it is sufficient to serially apply the mechanisms specified in this document to such a list. [Accept-Lang] Accept Language, as described in Section 14.4 of the RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1) Peter Constable wrote: >>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Randy Presuhn >> >> > > > > >>Total agreement. Our charter is quite narrow and specific regarding >>this >>deliverable. It says: >> >>| The second document will describe matching algorithms for use with >>| language tags. Language tags are used in a broad variety of contexts >>| and it is not expected that any single matching algorithm will fit all >>| needs. Developing a small set of common matching algorithms does seem >>| likely to contribute to interoperability, however, as it seems likely >>| that using protocols could reference these well-known algorithms in >>| their specifications. >> >>I believe the fact that it talks about "matching algorithms" rather than >>"negotiation mechanisms" is important, and has direct consequences >>for the document. Specifically, what we say about negotiation mechanisms >>will need to be non-normative, included merely as use cases justifying >>our decision to document specific algorithms. >> >> > >I agree. For that reason, I think that if we want to include some discussion of language range lists, then (i) it should be because we think there are particular issues in relation to matching on lists of ranges that need particular consideration over and above matching a single range alone, and (ii) we should not give any specification of syntax for lists: that is entirely up to the particular negotiation protocol to determine. > > > >Peter Constable > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 01:36:01 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMIzZ-0002BI-GW; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:36:01 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2005 22:35:49 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Thread-Index: AcXHc3McCigZzmf+Tuu9YTp772jpFQAZU4lQ From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 05:35:49.0572 (UTC) FILETIME=[4FD07040:01C5C7DC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0495196904==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0495196904== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWFyazoNCg0KSSBoYXZlIG5vIHByb2JsZW0gd2l0aCB0aGUga2luZCBvZiB0aGluZyB5b3UndmUg c3VnZ2VzdGVkIGhlcmUuIEl0IHNhdGlzZmllcyBteSB0d28gY29uZGl0aW9uczogaXQncyBmb2N1 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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0495196904==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 11:53:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMScr-0003gd-5A; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:53:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMScq-0003gT-ED for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:53:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14279 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMSlH-0003qH-4p for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:01:55 -0400 Received: from IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.202]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:52:49 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:52:49 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:52:36 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists thread-index: AcXHc6uydkBblsE3Sxi3UDpoQ1IJFAAVXRIg From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Mark Davis" , "Peter Constable" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 15:52:49.0381 (UTC) FILETIME=[81570150:01C5C832] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1474006195==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: 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by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMT5l-0004U0-DQ for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:23:07 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e36.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93GCmb4028204 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:12:48 -0400 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (d03av04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.170]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j93GEnQm495424 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:14:49 -0600 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j93GE8OX020301 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:14:08 -0600 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-121-136.mts.ibm.com [9.48.121.136]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93GE640020002; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:14:07 -0600 Message-ID: <434158C7.8010906@icu-project.org> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:13:59 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Constable Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org There appear to be conflicting opinions among the group. Some didn't want any mention at all, and you are wanting more. I tried to satisfy this by supplying what I think is the minimum informative note: just enough to alert people to the fact that there is a potential issue that they should be aware of. It feels like if I supply more, the people who don't want anything will react. And we certainly don't want to do anything that would delay the process of getting this out, since some people feel like the language tags document is tied to this one (although I don't think there is any requirement there). Mark Peter Constable wrote: >Mark: > >I have no problem with the kind of thing you've suggested here. It satisfies my two conditions: it's focusing on issues that go beyond matching a single range and it doesn't specify any particular syntax. > >What I would like to see change from what you've suggested is to see further elaboration. Right now, all you've done is (i) define _language range list_, (ii) give a few examples of them, and (iii) state that matching on LRLs has different requirements than matching on a range. What are those other requirements? Even if there's nothing that could be stipulated normatively, it would help to be informative. What you gave below is minimally informative: it tells me there are issues I should be aware of, but then leaves me to go looking at some specs that uses LRLs to try to work out what those issues might be. Even if it's not a comprehensive discussion, a brief description of couple of particular issues would clue the reader in to what those issues are. > > >Peter Constable > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Mark Davis [mailto:mark.davis@icu-project.org] >>Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:05 AM >>To: Peter Constable >>Cc: ltru@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists >> >>My concern with language range lists is that the lookup is *not* simply >>looking up each language until you get a match, either in the >>Accept-Language language range lists, the Apple language range lists, or >>the CLDR language range lists. So I would like *at least* an informative >>note to that effect, that people know that they should not simply apply >>the matching algorithms listed in the document to a list. >> >>I suggest something like the following language. >> >> >>2.3 Language Range Lists >> >>A language range list is a ordered list of zero or more language ranges, >>perhaps with additional structure to give additional priorities among >>the elements of the list. These are used in Accept-Language >>[Accept-Lang], and in various implementations such as Apple's language >>lookup and CLDR's language fallback. The lookup and matching within >>language range lists require somewhat different lookup and matching >>mechanisms in order to produce reasonable results, so it should not be >>assumed that it is sufficient to serially apply the mechanisms specified >>in this document to such a list. >> >> >>[Accept-Lang] Accept Language, as described in Section 14.4 of the RFC >>2616 (HTTP 1.1) >> >> >>Peter Constable wrote: >> >> >> >>>>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Randy Presuhn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Total agreement. Our charter is quite narrow and specific regarding >>>>this >>>>deliverable. It says: >>>> >>>>| The second document will describe matching algorithms for use with >>>>| language tags. Language tags are used in a broad variety of contexts >>>>| and it is not expected that any single matching algorithm will fit all >>>>| needs. Developing a small set of common matching algorithms does seem >>>>| likely to contribute to interoperability, however, as it seems likely >>>>| that using protocols could reference these well-known algorithms in >>>>| their specifications. >>>> >>>>I believe the fact that it talks about "matching algorithms" rather than >>>>"negotiation mechanisms" is important, and has direct consequences >>>>for the document. Specifically, what we say about negotiation >>>> >>>> >>mechanisms >> >> >>>>will need to be non-normative, included merely as use cases justifying >>>>our decision to document specific algorithms. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I agree. For that reason, I think that if we want to include some >>> >>> >>discussion of language range lists, then (i) it should be because we think >>there are particular issues in relation to matching on lists of ranges >>that need particular consideration over and above matching a single range >>alone, and (ii) we should not give any specification of syntax for lists: >>that is entirely up to the particular negotiation protocol to determine. >> >> >>> >>>Peter Constable >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ltru mailing list >>>Ltru@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 12:22:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMT5V-00015u-4H; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:22:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMT5T-00015Y-91 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:22:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15861 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMTDx-0004i1-Tr for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:31:35 -0400 Received: from IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.202]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:22:36 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:22:36 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 09:22:23 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes thread-index: AcXFB0RtvmrEBouGRTK0ttMmFv4m1gAAT4OwAAh51kAAiyZxUAA34rvg From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Peter Constable" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 16:22:36.0612 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA9CD040:01C5C836] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Got it. The first one I corrected when placing in the text. The second = one, of course, is necessary, given the example! Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Peter Constable > Sent: dimanche 2 octobre 2005 06:45 > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: matching comments: use of prefixes >=20 > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of > > Addison Phillips >=20 >=20 > > Okay, here's what I have now: >=20 > ... > > mutually intelligible enough to be useful and this form of matching > has > > historically been to most prevalent. >=20 > s/be "the most prevalent" >=20 >=20 > > Cases do exist in which care has to be applied to the selection = of > the > > language range. This is especially true when the language range > encloses > > multiple, widely divergent dialects. For example, the language range > "sgn" >=20 > In a case like "sgn", we're talking about entirely unrelated = languages, > not just widely divergent dialects. I suggest revising the wording to > "encloses multiple, widely divergent linguistic varieties." >=20 >=20 > Peter Constable >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 12:47:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMTT6-0006JL-UP; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:47:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMTT5-0006Gd-Qs for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:47:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA17350 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMTba-0005U1-UC for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 12:55:59 -0400 Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93GjONR004091 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:45:24 -0400 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (d03av04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.170]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j93GkutP535748 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:46:56 -0600 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j93Gktem029561 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:46:55 -0600 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-121-136.mts.ibm.com [9.48.121.136]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j93GksYX029497; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:46:55 -0600 Message-ID: <4341607C.5030308@icu-project.org> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 09:46:52 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Addison Phillips Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0770535483960d190d4a0d020e7060bd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org What I am concerned about isn't really about negotiation. A language range list is still static: an example is where a user wants to indicate that the languages s/he wants are "br; fr", asking for Breton text if available, otherwise French. This is being communicated to a target process, but there is no negotiation going on. It is not as if the process will negotiate back with the user: "Hmm. Don't have Breton, and have only partial French; how about Greek?". This isn't to say that some processes might have language negotiation, but that is a very different kettle of fish. A language range list is really just an extension of a language range. A language range is like being able to specify a color with (bl.*), which will match "blue" and "black"; a language range list is like being able to add other possibilities, such as (bl.*|gree.*) which also picks up "green" (but not "grey"). Your text also limits the scope to matching, when lookup is equally applicable. Mark Addison Phillips wrote: >My concern with "language range lists" is that they have precious little to do with language tag matching. They are used by language negotiation mechanisms in concert with matching to produce an ordered set of results. But they are not part of the matching of tags: they are part of a negotiation mechanism. > >Negotiation mechanisms that order results are important, surely. I'd be happy to describe negotiation schemes in general and best practices for implementing same. But LRLs by themselves are kind of pointless, don't you think? > >Personally, I think we should do negotiation schemes separately, but if we want to mention them in this document (and we should decide which), then we should talk about them directly and not fool around with language range lists (are we going to enumerate all the different potential separator characters?!?) > >Might I propose the following instead of your text: > >-- >2.X Language Negotiation Using Ranges > >Any of the language tag matching mechanisms described above can be used to match a specific piece of content to a specific request. When a user requests content, though, it may be necessary to order the set of matching results and to consider more than one language range in order to identify the best match for the user's preferences. This process is called 'language negotiation'. > >In language negotiation, the user specifies a list of language ranges, possibly weighted or ordered according to the user's preferences. A negotiation mechanism can produce a single information item or a list of ordered results depending on the needs of the application and might consider additional information not contained in language tags in deciding which content to return and in what order. > >For example, [Accept-Lang] Accept Language, as described in Section 14.4 of the RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1), as well as in RFC 3282, describes a list of language ranges ordered by 'weights'. Here are some examples of how this list of language ranges could be used with the matching mechanisms described above when negotiating language content: > >* items go here..... >-- > >Addison P. Phillips >Globalization Architect, Quest Software >Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > >Internationalization is not a feature. >It is an architecture. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Mark Davis >>Sent: dimanche 2 octobre 2005 10:05 >>To: Peter Constable >>Cc: ltru@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists >> >>My concern with language range lists is that the lookup is *not* simply >>looking up each language until you get a match, either in the >>Accept-Language language range lists, the Apple language range lists, or >>the CLDR language range lists. So I would like *at least* an informative >>note to that effect, that people know that they should not simply apply >>the matching algorithms listed in the document to a list. >> >>I suggest something like the following language. >> >> >>2.3 Language Range Lists >> >>A language range list is a ordered list of zero or more language ranges, >>perhaps with additional structure to give additional priorities among >>the elements of the list. These are used in Accept-Language >>[Accept-Lang], and in various implementations such as Apple's language >>lookup and CLDR's language fallback. The lookup and matching within >>language range lists require somewhat different lookup and matching >>mechanisms in order to produce reasonable results, so it should not be >>assumed that it is sufficient to serially apply the mechanisms specified >>in this document to such a list. >> >> >>[Accept-Lang] Accept Language, as described in Section 14.4 of the RFC >>2616 (HTTP 1.1) >> >> >>Peter Constable wrote: >> >> >> >>>>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Randy Presuhn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Total agreement. Our charter is quite narrow and specific regarding >>>>this >>>>deliverable. It says: >>>> >>>>| The second document will describe matching algorithms for use with >>>>| language tags. Language tags are used in a broad variety of contexts >>>>| and it is not expected that any single matching algorithm will fit all >>>>| needs. Developing a small set of common matching algorithms does seem >>>>| likely to contribute to interoperability, however, as it seems likely >>>>| that using protocols could reference these well-known algorithms in >>>>| their specifications. >>>> >>>>I believe the fact that it talks about "matching algorithms" rather than >>>>"negotiation mechanisms" is important, and has direct consequences >>>>for the document. Specifically, what we say about negotiation >>>> >>>> >>mechanisms >> >> >>>>will need to be non-normative, included merely as use cases justifying >>>>our decision to document specific algorithms. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I agree. For that reason, I think that if we want to include some >>> >>> >>discussion of language range lists, then (i) it should be because we think >>there are particular issues in relation to matching on lists of ranges >>that need particular consideration over and above matching a single range >>alone, and (ii) we should not give any specification of syntax for lists: >>that is entirely up to the particular negotiation protocol to determine. >> >> >>> >>>Peter Constable >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Ltru mailing list >>>Ltru@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ltru mailing list >>Ltru@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 15:13:00 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMVkC-0005Fg-IV; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:13:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMVkA-0005EB-Q0 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:12:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25872 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.microsoft.com ([131.107.3.124]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMVsf-0001Db-C3 for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:21:47 -0400 Received: from mailout1.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.117]) by mail2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2499); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:12:46 -0700 Received: from RED-MSG-52.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.14]) by mailout1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:12:43 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:12:43 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Thread-Index: AcXINX63iNS0vzFwSNGblMUZmk0r+wAF4eZg From: "Peter Constable" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 19:12:43.0619 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E767B30:01C5C84E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0935081182==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0935081182== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 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From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 03 15:16:45 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMVnp-0005dx-4g; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:16:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMVnn-0005dk-DP for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:16:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26247 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMVwF-0001JT-AS for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:25:30 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:16:23 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:16:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:16:10 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] matching: Language Range Lists thread-index: AcXINX63iNS0vzFwSNGblMUZmk0r+wAF4eZgAAB4V0A= From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Peter Constable" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Oct 2005 19:16:23.0110 (UTC) FILETIME=[F14A2660:01C5C84E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b22590c27682ace61775ee7b453b40d3 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1348260790==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1348260790== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1348260790==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 04 21:35:57 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMyCK-0006hI-UI; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:35:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMyCJ-0006hA-Ox for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:35:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20275 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.67]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMyL5-0001yK-AJ for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:45:00 -0400 Received: from h-68-166-189-106.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.189.106] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EMyC6-0001rE-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:35:42 -0400 Message-ID: <034001c5c94d$8c16dae0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:38:54 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Subject: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - A note for the editors.... Randy > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:40 PM > Subject: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF > > > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4234 > > Title: Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF > Author(s): D. Crocker, Ed., P. Overell > Status: Standards Track > Date: October 2005 > Mailbox: dcrocker@bbiw.net, paul.overell@thus.net > Pages: 16 > Characters: 26351 > Obsoletes: 2234 > > I-D Tag: draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00.txt > > URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4234.txt ... _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 04 21:40:40 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMyGu-0008TR-M5; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:40:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMyGs-0008TJ-VD for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:40:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20417 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMyPc-00023c-Vb for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:49:42 -0400 Received: from IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.202]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:40:12 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:40:12 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:39:57 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF thread-index: AcXJTUCTj4pKWXoXQ+WrmvJiheki0QAACXcA From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Randy Presuhn" , "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 01:40:12.0318 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA2E2BE0:01C5C94D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I will fix the various drafts. Do I need to resubmit draft-registry? Or = can it wait for RFC Editor time? PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" in = draft tracker. Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: mardi 4 octobre 2005 18:39 > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax = Specifications: > ABNF >=20 > Hi - >=20 > A note for the editors.... >=20 > Randy >=20 > > From: > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:40 PM > > Subject: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF > > > > > > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > > > > RFC 4234 > > > > Title: Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF > > Author(s): D. Crocker, Ed., P. Overell > > Status: Standards Track > > Date: October 2005 > > Mailbox: dcrocker@bbiw.net, paul.overell@thus.net > > Pages: 16 > > Characters: 26351 > > Obsoletes: 2234 > > > > I-D Tag: draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00.txt > > > > URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4234.txt > ... >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 04 22:54:35 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMzQR-0008V2-NU; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:54:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMzQQ-0008Uv-Bt for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:54:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA23525 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.63]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMzZD-0003gF-6h for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:03:40 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-137-107.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.137.107] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EMzQN-0004ia-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c5c958$8ec66980$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 19:57:42 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:39 PM > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF > > I will fix the various drafts. > Do I need to resubmit draft-registry? No. > Or can it wait for RFC Editor time? If a new draft becomes necessary due to any IESG "DISCUSS" comments, the change could be folded in then. Otherwise, it can wait for AUTH48. The RFC editor will normally take care of this; by making the change in your working copy there'll be one less delta to puzzle over during AUTH48. > PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" in draft tracker. > Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? ... I'll look into this. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 04 23:09:06 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMzeU-0005xc-41; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:09:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMzeR-0005xX-SH for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:09:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA24184 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.63]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMznD-00041F-Nk for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:18:08 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-137-107.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.137.107] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EMzeN-0007jf-00; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:08:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c5c95a$94cb05a0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:12:12 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Subject: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:39 PM > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF ... > PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" > in draft tracker. Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? ... Both documents are on the agenda for the October 13th telechat, and the IESG ballot has been issued, so, though I'd expect the state to be "IESG Evaluation", based on the state chart and the descriptions of the states, I'm aware of no cause for alarm. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 04 23:51:02 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN0J4-0003gE-5F; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:51:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN0J2-0003g9-QL for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:51:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25974 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:50:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EN0Rq-0004vj-S5 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:00:07 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:50:46 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:50:46 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 20:50:31 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts thread-index: AcXJWmf3JakE7gOPQxGw95oPT/ee7gABXadw From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Randy Presuhn" , "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2005 03:50:46.0364 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7A2B9C0:01C5C95F] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org That's fine. I saw that after I sent the message and drilled down to see = the detail. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: mardi 4 octobre 2005 20:12 > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts >=20 > Hi - >=20 > > From: "Addison Phillips" > > To: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU Working = Group" > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:39 PM > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax > Specifications: ABNF > ... > > PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" > > in draft tracker. Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? > ... >=20 > Both documents are on the agenda for the October 13th telechat, > and the IESG ballot has been issued, so, though I'd expect the > state to be "IESG Evaluation", based on the state chart and the > descriptions of the states, I'm aware of no cause for alarm. >=20 > Randy >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 05 04:13:29 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN4NR-00045T-1c; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:11:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN4NP-00043o-Ac for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:11:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05110 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 04:11:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.251.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EN4WD-0002rS-30 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:20:54 -0400 Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id j958BAd24231; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:11:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from nodnsquery(133.2.210.1) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via csmap id 83eed2be_3577_11da_9589_00304811fd80_12657; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 17:10:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from EBOSHIIWA.it.aoyama.ac.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9589cTf018616; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:10:05 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20051005133821.05dc71c0@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:39:28 +0900 To: "Addison Phillips" , "Randy Presuhn" , "LTRU Working Group" From: Martin Duerst Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications:ABNF In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 10:39 05/10/05, Addison Phillips wrote: >I will fix the various drafts. Do I need to resubmit draft-registry? Or can >it wait for RFC Editor time? No need to resubmit just for this, just a heads up to fix it in case there is some other reason for resubmission. (The RFC Editor fixes these things by themselves.) Regards, Martin. >PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" in >draft tracker. Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? > >Addison > >Addison P. Phillips >Globalization Architect, Quest Software >Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > >Internationalization is not a feature. >It is an architecture. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Randy Presuhn >> Sent: mardi 4 octobre 2005 18:39 >> To: LTRU Working Group >> Subject: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: >> ABNF >> >> Hi - >> >> A note for the editors.... >> >> Randy >> >> > From: >> > To: >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:40 PM >> > Subject: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF >> > >> > >> > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. >> > >> > >> > RFC 4234 >> > >> > Title: Augmented BNF for Syntax Specifications: ABNF >> > Author(s): D. Crocker, Ed., P. Overell >> > Status: Standards Track >> > Date: October 2005 >> > Mailbox: dcrocker@bbiw.net, paul.overell@thus.net >> > Pages: 16 >> > Characters: 26351 >> > Obsoletes: 2234 >> > >> > I-D Tag: draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00.txt >> > >> > URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4234.txt >> ... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ltru mailing list >> Ltru@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 05 07:28:52 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN7S8-0007tW-Jd; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:28:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN7S5-0007t9-Jb for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:28:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA16583 for ; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EN7aw-0000KH-OP for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:37:59 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:28:43 -0400 id 005C8039.4343B8EB.00004401 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: RE: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:28:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <001001c5c95a$94cb05a0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: AcXJWmincYDuFk7jTNy+91rni3Ac7QARVygQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Presuhn [mailto:randy_presuhn@mindspring.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:12 PM > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: [Ltru] I-D tracker state of ltru drafts > > Hi - > > > From: "Addison Phillips" > > To: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU > Working Group" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:39 PM > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Fw: RFC 4234 on Augmented BNF for > Syntax Specifications: ABNF > ... > > PS> I note that draft-registry is still at "Waiting for AD Go-Ahead" > > in draft tracker. Shouldn't it be at "IESG Evaluation" already? > ... > > Both documents are on the agenda for the October 13th telechat, > and the IESG ballot has been issued, so, though I'd expect the > state to be "IESG Evaluation", based on the state chart and the > descriptions of the states, I'm aware of no cause for alarm. I seem to have forgotten to push a button to change the state after taking care of the other procedural tasks. The state is now correct. -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 07 17:29:30 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENzmU-0004PS-Lg; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:29:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENzmS-0004PB-CX for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:29:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25738 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2005 17:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENzvo-0005Mu-3K for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:39:09 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:29:11 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:29:10 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 14:28:58 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: matching and lists... Thread-Index: AcXLhiC6ssxM8oJVQfqUtohRcCemtg== From: "Addison Phillips" To: "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2005 21:29:10.0731 (UTC) FILETIME=[2803A1B0:01C5CB86] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Subject: [Ltru] matching and lists... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1477554840==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1477554840== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWxsOg0KDQpNYXJrIGFuZCBJIHNwZW50IHNvbWUgdGltZSBvZmYtbGlzdCB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0 IHRoZSByZWNlbnQgdGhyZWFkIGFib3V0IGxpc3RzIG9mIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRhZ3MuIEFzIGEgcmVz dWx0IG9mIHRoaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiwgSSB3YW50IHRvIHByb3Bvc2UgYSBzaGlmdCBpbiB0aGUg bWF0Y2hpbmcgZG9jdW1lbnQgdG8gYWNjb21tb2RhdGUgd2hhdCBNYXJrIHdhcyB0YWxraW5nIGFi b3V0Lg0KDQpUaGUgcHJvYmxlbSwgaW4gYSBudXRzaGVsbCwgd2FzIHRoYXQgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUg YSBsaXN0IG9mIGxhbmd1YWdlIHJhbmdlcywgdGhlIHdheSB5b3UgZG8gbG9va3VwLXN0eWxlIG1h dGNoaW5nIHZhcmllcyBmcm9tIHdoYXQgd2FzIGluIGRyYWZ0cyB6ZXJvIHRocm91Z2ggZm91cjog eW91IHdhbnQgdG8gc3RhcnQgZG9pbmcgZmFsbCBiYWNrIG9uIHRoZSBuZXh0IGxhbmd1YWdlIHJh bmdlIGluIHRoZSBzZXF1ZW5jZSBiZWZvcmUgcmV0dXJuaW5nIHRoZSBkZWZhdWx0IGNvbnRlbnQg KG9yIGhhdmluZyB0aGUgbWF0Y2ggZmFpbCkuDQoNCkl0IHN0cmlrZXMgbWUgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBp cyBubyByZWFzb24gbm90IHRvIGRlc2NyaWJlIHRoaXMgYmVoYXZpb3IgZGlyZWN0bHkgaW4gdGhl IGxvb2t1cCBzY2hlbWVzISBJZiBvbmUgZG9lcyBub3QgaGF2ZSBhIGxpc3QgKGkuZS4gdGhlIGxp c3QgaGFzIGV4YWN0bHkgb25lIGl0ZW0pLCB0aGVuIHRoZSBzY2hlbWUgd29ya3MgYXMgZGVzY3Jp YmVkIGluIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpUaGVyZWZvcmUsIEkgaGF2ZSBtb2RpZmllZCB0 aGUgZWRpdG9yJ3MgY29weSBvZiBkcmFmdC0wNSB0byBpbmNsdWRlIHNvbWUgc3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFi b3V0IHByaW9yaXRpemVkIGxpc3RzIG9mIGxhbmd1YWdlIHJhbmdlcywgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyB0aGUg c3VnZ2VzdGVkIG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgdG8gdGhlIHZhcmlvdXMgbWF0Y2hpbmcgc2NoZW1lcyB0 aGF0IHJlc3VsdCBmb3IgaW50cm9kdWNpbmcgdGhpcyBpZGVhLg0KDQpUaGVzZSBhcmUgcG9zdGVk IG9uIHRoZSBJbnRlci1Mb2NhbGUgc2l0ZToNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pbnRlci1sb2NhbGUuY29t L0lEL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbHRydS1tYXRjaGluZy0wNS54bWwNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaW50ZXItbG9j YWxlLmNvbS9JRC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLWx0cnUtbWF0Y2hpbmctMDUuaHRtbA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5p bnRlci1sb2NhbGUuY29tL0lEL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbHRydS1tYXRjaGluZy0wNS50eHQNCg0KQSBk aWZmIGFsc28gZXhpc3RzOg0KDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmludGVyLWxvY2FsZS5jb20vSUQvZHJhZnQt bWF0Y2hpbmctMDQtMDUtZGlmZi5odG1sDQoNCkNvbW1lbnRzPw0KDQpBZGRpc29uDQoNCkFkZGlz b24gUC4gUGhpbGxpcHMNCkdsb2JhbGl6YXRpb24gQXJjaGl0ZWN0LCBRdWVzdCBTb2Z0d2FyZQ0K aHR0cDovL3d3dy5xdWVzdC5jb20NCg0KQ2hhaXIsIFczQyBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBD b3JlIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXANCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cudzMub3JnL0ludGVybmF0aW9uYWwNCg0KSW50 ZXJuYXRpb25hbGl6YXRpb24gaXMgbm90IGEgZmVhdHVyZS4NCkl0IGlzIGFuIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVy ZS4gDQoNCg== --===============1477554840== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1477554840==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 10 19:05:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP6hh-0000Wl-JR; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:05:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP6hf-0000UQ-Nm; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:05:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01248; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EP6rf-0004TZ-6Q; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:15:27 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-4-58.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.4.58] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EP6hQ-0002am-00; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:04:52 -0400 Message-ID: <005401c5cdef$7d1da5e0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "Elwyn Davies" , References: Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:07:19 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: LTRU Working Group , Mary Barnes Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - I believe the discussion on the ltru WG mailing list of the IETF last call comments from Elwyn Davies and Scott Bradner made it clear that the WG didn't see any particular value to preserving those bits of history, particularly when their preservation increases risk or complexity. Making the initial regsitry RFC content-free satisfied Scott's concerns; and I think Addison's assessment of the non-value of generating registration forms for the initial registry is correct, though I'd like the rest of the WG to confirm whether they do or don't see value to creating these. As I see it, the desire to avoid pointless effort is what motivated the initial registry document in the first place. So, I concur that (1) the title for figure 2 be fixed in AUTH48 or in the next update, should a new i-d be needed for whatever reason; and (2) that we should *not* accept the other proposed Gen-art change, since no one involved in the registry work needs or wants these additional records to be generated. If you seriously object to this proposed resolution, please speak up. Randy, ltru co-chair > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "Elwyn Davies" ; > Cc: "Randy Presuhn" ; "Mary Barnes" ; "Scott Hollenbeck" ; > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:15 AM > Subject: RE: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > > Dear Elwyn, > > Thank you again for reviewing the LTRU documents. > The minor nit I will correct in my editor's copy. > > The original draft you reviewed did not include text to generate > registration forms for the initial registry. Doing so would be, > in my opinion, a colossal waste of time. In fact, I question the > wisdom of archiving any registration records separate from > the registry itself. Part of the point of having a registry is to have > a single authoritative source and stability guarantees in draft-registry > help ensure that the state of the registry at any point in time is highly > compatible with previous versions of the registry. > > It is the case that the initial state of the registry cannot be > recaptured in its entirety, but the initial set of records can be > identified (no records may ever be removed and deprecations > include a deprecation date). I'm not sure why the initial registry > state would be of particular interest, except as a curiosity. The > underlying ISO standards and RFC 1766/3066 have functioned > well enough with *no* stable reference to this information. > > Therefore I suggest that this comment be rejected by the WG. > I could see maintaining a copy of the registry in draft-initial, > if the IESG feels it is important to capture the initial state for posterity. > I just don't think generating several hundred artificial registration > forms is of any use to anyone. > > Best Regards, > > Addison > > Addison P. Phillips > Globalization Architect, Quest Software > Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > > Internationalization is not a feature. > It is an architecture. > -----Original Message----- > From: Elwyn Davies [mailto:elwynd@dial.pipex.com] > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:49 AM > To: gen-art@ietf.org > Cc: Randy Presuhn; Mary Barnes; Scott Hollenbeck; mark.davis@us.ibm.com; > Addison Phillips > Subject: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > > Background for those on the CC list, who may be unaware of GenART: > GenART is the Area Review Team for the General Area of the IETF. We > advise the General Area Director (i.e. the IETF/IESG chair) by providing > more in depth reviews than he could do himself of documents that come up > for final decision in IESG telechat. I was selected as the GenART > member to review this document. Below is my review, which was written > specifically with an eye to the GenART process, but since I believe that > it will be useful to have these comments more widely distributed, others > outside the GenART group are being copied. > > Document: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > Intended Status: BCP > Shepherding AD: Scott Hollenbeck > PROTO Shepherd: Randy Presuhn > Review Trigger: IESG Telechat, 13 November 2005 > > LC Date: 06 Sept 2005 > > Review: This document is generally in good shape and well written but is > almost > ready for publication, subject to one issue and an editorial nit: > > > S3.1, para 1, last sentence: Unfortunately there has been an interaction > between > two sets of last call comments which has lead to a problem. > > When I reviewed this document for last call the corresponding registry > initialisation document (draft-ietf-ltru-initial-04.txt) was going > to contain an archival list of all the subtags that were going to be > registered > initially. I therefore made the point that generating registration forms > for them was rather redundant. The authors and wg accepted this and s3.1 > was > changed accordingly. > > In the meantime, another last call reviewer suggested that maintaining the > list > in the initialisation document was dangerous as it might be > used instead of the registry itself. This comment was also accepted and so > draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05.txt has instructions to remove the actual list > before publication. > > This means that we have gone from the position where there would have been > two > records of the initial registrations to one where there will now be zero > records. This is almost certainly not desirable. > > So I guess we should go back to the original wording from v11 of this > draft > which requires the creation of registration forms for the extra (non-3066) > items registered when the new registry is created. > > Editorial nit: > The new title of Figure 2 should be 'Registry Record Format' and not > 'record-jar format' (which it isn't in any case). > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 10 21:54:36 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP9Lg-00031R-QY; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:54:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP9Lf-00031J-1s for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:54:35 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07760 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EP9J1-0004vu-IW for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:51:51 +0200 Received: from pd9fbad53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.251.173.83]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:51:51 +0200 Received: from nobody by pd9fbad53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:51:51 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 03:50:09 +0200 Organization: Lines: 37 Message-ID: <434B1A51.364D@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <005401c5cdef$7d1da5e0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9fbad53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > Making the initial regsitry RFC content-free satisfied > Scott's concerns s/Scott/John/ if I didn't miss something. > I'd like the rest of the WG to confirm whether they do or > don't see value to creating these. Dummy registrations for all subtags reflecting the source standards are useless. For all redundant & grandfathered subtags old 3066 registrations exist. 3066 registrations also exist for the four initial variants, e.g. for 1996: http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-AT-1996 http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-CH-1996 http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-DE-1996 Maybe it could make sense to create dummy registrations for the UN region codes, because that source is somewhat different from ISO standards, but OTOH they also try to document what they do: http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49chang.htm > we should *not* accept the other proposed Gen-art change, > since no one involved in the registry work needs or wants > these additional records to be generated. ACK >> Review Trigger: IESG Telechat, 13 November 2005 13 October, . So far two YES, no DISCUSS, no ABTAIN. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 10 23:21:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPAi2-0005Mb-PC; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:21:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPAi1-0005MH-8m for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:21:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA11289 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.72]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPAs1-0001se-Ln for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:32:06 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-4-58.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.4.58] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EPAhs-0003Vr-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:21:36 -0400 Message-ID: <003001c5ce13$567780e0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <005401c5cdef$7d1da5e0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> <434B1A51.364D@xyzzy.claranet.de> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:24:49 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Frank Ellermann" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:50 PM > Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > > Making the initial regsitry RFC content-free satisfied > > Scott's concerns > > s/Scott/John/ if I didn't miss something. ... Yes, my error. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 11 11:57:08 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPMV1-0004WV-Qf; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:57:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPMV1-0004WL-5J for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:57:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11112 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from keymaster.sharplabs.com ([216.65.151.107] helo=sharplabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPMf6-0007mX-6y for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 12:07:35 -0400 Received: from admsrvnt02.enet.sharplabs.com (admsrvnt02.enet.sharplabs.com [172.29.225.253]) by sharplabs.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9BFukFc028933 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by admsrvnt02.enet.sharplabs.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <4PK6XXMJ>; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:57:46 -0700 Message-ID: From: "McDonald, Ira" To: ltru@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 08:57:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +1 Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) Blue Roof Music / High North Inc PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 phone: +1-906-494-2434 email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > Frank Ellermann > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:50 PM > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > > Making the initial regsitry RFC content-free satisfied > > Scott's concerns > > s/Scott/John/ if I didn't miss something. > > > I'd like the rest of the WG to confirm whether they do or > > don't see value to creating these. > > Dummy registrations for all subtags reflecting the source > standards are useless. For all redundant & grandfathered > subtags old 3066 registrations exist. 3066 registrations > also exist for the four initial variants, e.g. for 1996: > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-AT-1996 > http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-CH-1996 > http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-DE-1996 > > Maybe it could make sense to create dummy registrations > for the UN region codes, because that source is somewhat > different from ISO standards, but OTOH they also try to > document what they do: > > http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49chang.htm > > > we should *not* accept the other proposed Gen-art change, > > since no one involved in the registry work needs or wants > > these additional records to be generated. > > ACK > > >> Review Trigger: IESG Telechat, 13 November 2005 > > 13 October, . > So far two YES, no DISCUSS, no ABTAIN. Bye, Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 11 13:51:25 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPOHd-0008GY-8d; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:51:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPOHc-0008GG-1z for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:51:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17980 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e36.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.154]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPORk-0002kE-GI for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 14:01:53 -0400 Received: from d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.106]) by e36.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9BHnaGW008648 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.168]) by d03relay04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9BHputu549566 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:51:56 -0600 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9BHp8qs025779 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:51:08 -0600 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-105-168.mts.ibm.com [9.48.105.168]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9BHp7DU025667; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:51:08 -0600 Message-ID: <434BFB89.1040909@icu-project.org> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:51:05 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "McDonald, Ira" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +1 McDonald, Ira wrote: >+1 > >Ira McDonald (Musician / Software Architect) >Blue Roof Music / High North Inc >PO Box 221 Grand Marais, MI 49839 >phone: +1-906-494-2434 >email: imcdonald@sharplabs.com > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of >>Frank Ellermann >>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:50 PM >>To: ltru@ietf.org >>Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt >> >> >>Randy Presuhn wrote: >> >> >> >>>Making the initial regsitry RFC content-free satisfied >>>Scott's concerns >>> >>> >>s/Scott/John/ if I didn't miss something. >> >> >> >>>I'd like the rest of the WG to confirm whether they do or >>>don't see value to creating these. >>> >>> >>Dummy registrations for all subtags reflecting the source >>standards are useless. For all redundant & grandfathered >>subtags old 3066 registrations exist. 3066 registrations >>also exist for the four initial variants, e.g. for 1996: >> >>http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-AT-1996 >>http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-CH-1996 >>http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tags/de-DE-1996 >> >>Maybe it could make sense to create dummy registrations >>for the UN region codes, because that source is somewhat >>different from ISO standards, but OTOH they also try to >>document what they do: >> >>http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49chang.htm >> >> >> >>>we should *not* accept the other proposed Gen-art change, >>>since no one involved in the registry work needs or wants >>>these additional records to be generated. >>> >>> >>ACK >> >> >> >>>>Review Trigger: IESG Telechat, 13 November 2005 >>>> >>>> >>13 October, . >>So far two YES, no DISCUSS, no ABTAIN. Bye, Frank >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ltru mailing list >>Ltru@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 01:33:56 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPZFU-0001YY-Nk; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:33:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPZFQ-0001WX-4M for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:33:54 -0400 Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27748 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051012053312.SIJC20109.mta9.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:33:12 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c5ceee$65c3db80$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20051011160931.GVVP5972.edge6.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:32:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Gen-art review: draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Frank Ellermann wrote: > Dummy registrations for all subtags reflecting the source > standards are useless. For all redundant & grandfathered > subtags old 3066 registrations exist. 3066 registrations > also exist for the four initial variants, e.g. for 1996: I thought we had resolved this long ago, but since it has come up again, I'll reaffirm my opinion that no artificial registration forms should be retrofitted onto the initial registry entries. -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 02:14:23 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPZsd-0003hp-IG; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:14:23 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPZsc-0003hk-Gq for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:14:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29186 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPa2q-0007Eh-FE for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:24:58 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO i18nguy.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 12 Oct 2005 02:14:15 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,205,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="99284194:sNHT83739182" Message-ID: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:14:13 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LTRU WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi, This will be of interest to you all. There is a conference devoted to language standards in Berlin in December. A number of different standards are covered. There will also be panel discussions and in fact I am moderating a panel as well. So I would like to extend a cordial invitation to you all to attend. In addition, (although I am not sure how the timing compares with the release of 3066bis, the registry etc.) if there is interest in having a face-to-face meeting of this working group's participants, I have already asked the organizers and they are happy to provide a room for the WG to meet and progress the standard. The agenda of the meeting, just to be clear, would not be mine or the organizers, but would be up to the WG to define and act on. I thought this would be a good way to encourage your participation in the conference, to advance the work of the group, to give you a chance to meet with some of the other standards committee's members, learn of their activities and to promote what you are developing to some of these groups. Regardless of whether you want to meet as a working group, you are each still welcome to attend the conference. The web site is here: http://www.internationalization-conference.org/languagestandards/index.html The agenda is online, as well as registration info, etc. http://www.internationalization-conference.org/languagestandards/agenda.html If you would like to have a WG meeting, then let me know and we will arrange the facilities. The conference is Dec. 12-13, which is a Monday and Tuesday. I have room to add a panelist representing rfc 3066bis, if one of you would like to speak to the current plans and state of the art. To include you, I would need to know right away though. Tex _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 08:22:37 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPfcz-0000ow-1G; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPfcx-0000or-6K for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17950 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPfnD-0000X2-Kn for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:33:14 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:18 -0400 id 005CC916.434CFFFA.00007FCD From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Tex Texin'" , "'LTRU WG'" Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:22:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXO9FChHDzAVX9ES36nAdtzG7rGNgALM6oQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Tex Texin [mailto:tex@i18nguy.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:14 AM > To: LTRU WG > Subject: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards [snip] > In addition, (although I am not sure how the timing compares with the > release of 3066bis, the registry etc.) if there is interest > in having a > face-to-face meeting of this working group's participants, I > have already > asked the organizers and they are happy to provide a room for > the WG to meet > and progress the standard. The agenda of the meeting, just to > be clear, > would not be mine or the organizers, but would be up to the > WG to define and > act on. Please remember that the IETF has rules that must be followed to hold interim working group meetings. See section 3 of RFC 2418 for details. There's nothing stopping anyone from getting togther informally, of course. -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 08:53:20 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPg6i-0001Na-MJ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:53:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPg6g-0001NS-Ls for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:53:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19164 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPgGz-0001FH-CG for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:03:58 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO i18nguy.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 12 Oct 2005 08:53:15 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,206,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="99485703:sNHT22957146" Message-ID: <434D0738.F132FC63@i18nguy.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:53:12 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Scott Hollenbeck Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 'LTRU WG' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Informal's fine, I'll buy the donuts. ;-) tex Scott Hollenbeck wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tex Texin [mailto:tex@i18nguy.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:14 AM > > To: LTRU WG > > Subject: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards > > [snip] > > > In addition, (although I am not sure how the timing compares with the > > release of 3066bis, the registry etc.) if there is interest > > in having a > > face-to-face meeting of this working group's participants, I > > have already > > asked the organizers and they are happy to provide a room for > > the WG to meet > > and progress the standard. The agenda of the meeting, just to > > be clear, > > would not be mine or the organizers, but would be up to the > > WG to define and > > act on. > > Please remember that the IETF has rules that must be followed to hold > interim working group meetings. See section 3 of RFC 2418 for details. > There's nothing stopping anyone from getting togther informally, of course. > > -Scott- -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com Making e-Business Work Around the World ------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 09:15:32 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPgSC-0008Fm-MY; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:15:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPgSA-0008Fa-UU for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:15:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20601 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPgcR-0001vs-F4 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:26:08 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EPgRl-00085a-E7; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:15:22 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:45:26 +0200 To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , "'LTRU WG'" From: r&d afrac Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1075888033==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1075888033== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_14918531==.ALT" --=====================_14918531==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id JAA20601 At 14:22 12/10/2005, Scott Hollenbeck wrote: >There's nothing stopping anyone from getting togther informally, of cour= se. Even in Versailles :-) ? Tex, I note that I hold a workshop in Paris on that theme, in July. I paid=20 for the travel and possibly the accomodation of the panelists I=20 invited. Do you think you could do the same? It would certainly help.=20 Or is it purely commercial? Anyway we have an Eurolinc BoD Meeting this AM: I will extend them=20 your invitation and pass it to the MINC BoD and send it on the NICSO=20 Broadcast. But please note that the date is between Tunis and Xmas,=20 so you may not get all the "governance" attendance you might want. Will you publish the minutes of the meeting? jfc PS. I found on the site some thinkings I think of interest to=20 understand people in our area "Good standards can drive industries and grow markets. This summit=20 will focus on the technology and business needs that benefit from standar= ds." Donald A. DePalma Common Sense Advisory, Inc. -> the problem of this WG: we did not ask ourselves what is a "good"=20 standard. We constrained an existing one to reduce its leaks. "Many constituencies in our industry are developing standards=20 independently of one another, sometimes even competing ones. It's=20 time to bring the standards efforts together so we can all benefit=20 from the value that good, universally accepted standards provide." Hans Fenstermacher President, ArchiText=AE -> full agreement. I whish him luck. "We need to promote the maintenance and development of standards with=20 the help of all constituencies, standards that all constituencies=20 will uphold because they were involved in their development." Kim Harris Partner, text & form -> the only solution. Not yet ours however. "Most companies assume that standards addressing language=20 technologies and quality are the 'right stuff'. Standards are usually=20 designed by experts to meet known industry needs. But these standards=20 do not fit all potential uses. We have long needed a dialogue on=20 language standards to help people make distinctions. This summit is=20 the first time that this is being offered." Tex Texin Chief architect and globalization consultant, Xencraft -> the WG-ltru could have been this first time. The network is the=20 core of the human life in our century. Networked is now more=20 important than spoken and writen in languages. The current Unicode=20 lead thinking shows some progress from hardware to software, but not=20 yet to brainware. There is a commercial objection to that IAB well=20 describe in RFC 3869. As long as we do not overcome it, languages=20 will not be link between people but a weapon. This "http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/10/06/64579.html" stays=20 the best evaluation I saw for a long. A response given by Mark Davis=20 yesterday on unicode@unicode.org, shows the difference in the words=20 used, and in the supported concepts, and therefore possibly targeted=20 objectives. When people are talking souls, cultures, relations, jobs,=20 development ... our role is to support and permit developers to serve the= m, "1. A localized product is one that is adapted to meet the language,=20 cultural and other requirements of a specific target market (a "locale").= " "2. An internationalized software product is one that can be=20 localized to any single locale without code changes." "3. A globalized software product is one that is internationalized,=20 and also supports multiple data locales at runtime. It may also=20 support a runtime choice among UI locales." is technically correct, but so "bleak" because limited. Weapons are bleak. It is always dangerous to play with weapons. Do you really want the IETF to politically side with this? I would be=20 proud to be banned if they did. =20 --=====================_14918531==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id JAA20601 At 14:22 12/10/2005, Scott Hollenbeck wrote:
There's nothing stopping a= nyone from getting togther informally, of course.

Even in Versailles :-) ?

Tex,
I note that I hold a workshop in Paris on that theme, in July. I paid for the travel and possibly the accomodation of the panelists I invited. Do you think you could do the same? It would certainly help. Or is it purely commercial?
Anyway we have an Eurolinc BoD Meeting this AM: I will extend them your invitation and pass it to the MINC BoD and send it on the NICSO Broadcast. But please note that the date is between Tunis and Xmas, so you may not get all the "governance" attendance you might want.
Will you publish the minutes of the meeting?
jfc


PS. I found on the site some thinkings I think of interest to understand people in our area

"Good standards can drive industries and grow markets. This summit will focus on the technology and business needs that benefit from standards."
Donald A. DePalma
Common Sense Advisory, Inc.

-> the problem of this WG: we did not ask ourselves what is a "good" standard. We constrained an existing one to reduce its leaks.


"Many constituencies in our industry are developing standards independently of one another, sometimes even competing ones. It's time to bring the standards efforts together so we can all benefit from the value that good, universally accepted standards provide."
Hans Fenstermacher
President, ArchiText=AE

-> full agreement. I whish him luck.


"We need to promote the maintenance and development of standards with the help of all constituencies, standards that all constituencies will uphold because they were involved in their development."
Kim Harris
Partner, text & form

-> the only solution. Not yet ours however.

"Most companies assume that standards addressing language technologies and quality are the 'right stuff'. Standards are usually designed by experts to meet known industry needs. But these standards do not fit all potential uses. We have long needed a dialogue on language standards to help people make distinctions. This summit is the first time that this is being offered."
Tex Texin
Chief architect and globalization consultant, Xencraft

-> the WG-ltru could have been this first time. The network is the core of the human life in our century. Networked is now more important than spoken and writen in languages. The current Unicode lead thinking shows some progress from hardware to software, but not yet to brainware. There is a commercial objection to that IAB well describe in RFC 3869. As long as we do not overcome it, languages will not be link between people but a weapon. 


This " http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/10/06/64579.html" stays the best evaluation I saw for a long. A response given by Mark Davis yesterday on unicode@unicode.org, shows the difference in the words used, and in the supported concepts, and therefore possibly targeted objectives. When people are talking souls, cultures, relations, jobs, development ... our role is to support and permit developers to serve them,

<quote>
"1. A localized product is one that is adapted to meet the language, cultural and other requirements of a specific target market (a "locale")."
"2. An internationalized software product is one that can be localized to any single locale without code changes."
"3. A globalized software product is one that is internationalized, and also supports multiple data locales at runtime. It may also support a runtime choice among UI locales."
<unquote>

is technically correct, but so "bleak" because limited. Weapons are bleak.

It is always dangerous to play with weapons.

Do you really want the IETF to politically side with this? I would be proud to be banned if they did. --=====================_14918531==.ALT-- --===============1075888033== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1075888033==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 13:38:05 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPkYH-0006mS-C2; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:38:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPZl7-0001Ki-Lm for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:06:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28902 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPZvL-00073O-Ik for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:17:13 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO xencraft.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 12 Oct 2005 02:06:25 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,205,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="99281457:sNHT25168142" Message-ID: <434CA7DF.C3CDF69D@xencraft.com> Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:06:23 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Languages , LTRU WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:38:04 -0400 Cc: Subject: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi, This will be of interest to you all. There is a conference devoted to language standards in Berlin in December. A number of different standards are covered. There will also be panel discussions and in fact I am moderating a panel as well. So I would like to extend a cordial invitation to you all to attend. In addition, (although I am not sure how the timing compares with the release of 3066bis, the registry etc.) if there is interest in having a face-to-face meeting of this working group's participants, I have already asked the organizers and they are happy to provide a room for the WG to meet and progress the standard. The agenda of the meeting, just to be clear, would not be mine or the organizers, but would be up to the WG to define and act on. I thought this would be a good way to encourage your participation in the conference, to advance the work of the group, to give you a chance to meet with some of the other standards committee's members, learn of their activities and to promote what you are developing to some of these groups. Regardless of whether you want to meet as a working group, you are each still welcome to attend the conference. The web site is here: http://www.internationalization-conference.org/languagestandards/index.html The agenda is online, as well as registration info, etc. http://www.internationalization-conference.org/languagestandards/agenda.html If you would like to have a WG meeting, then let me know and we will arrange the facilities. The conference is Dec. 12-13, which is a Monday and Tuesday. I have room to add a panelist representing rfc 3066bis, if one of you would like to speak to the current plans and state of the art. To include you, I would need to know right away though. Tex _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 14:07:05 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPl0L-0007Eh-AG; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:07:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPl0K-0007Ec-5L for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:07:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08466 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPlAe-0002Mq-OB for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:17:46 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-7-34.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.7.34] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EPl0G-0000Dm-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:07:00 -0400 Message-ID: <009901c5cf58$34861000$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <434D0738.F132FC63@i18nguy.com> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:10:18 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Tex Texin" > To: "Scott Hollenbeck" > Cc: "'LTRU WG'" > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards > > Informal's fine, I'll buy the donuts. > ;-) > tex ... Thanks for the generous offer, as qualified by our AD. By December I would hope that this WG would be history, so such a gathering would clearly be informal. (Unless, after completing the matching work, the WG agrees to request additions to its charter and the IESG is willing to extend it.) If we are to finish according to current schedule, the matching draft will need to have WG last call in its current form, or an update submitted by Monday October 17th. Clocks are ticking. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 15:06:03 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPlvO-0007Nv-Sk; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:06:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPlvM-0007Md-Tq for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:06:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11478 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [65.246.141.36] (helo=mail.reutershealth.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPm5i-0003y1-Kx for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:16:43 -0400 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j9CJ5jEu014268; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:05:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:05:40 -0400 From: "John.Cowan" To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Message-ID: <20051012190538.GA1344@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <434D0738.F132FC63@i18nguy.com> <009901c5cf58$34861000$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <009901c5cf58$34861000$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > By December I would hope that this WG would be history, so > such a gathering would clearly be informal. (Unless, after completing > the matching work, the WG agrees to request additions to its charter > and the IESG is willing to extend it.) I would push quite strongly for dormancy rather than termination; when ISO 639-3 completes the FDIS stage, we will need to do the work on RFC 3066ter. Hopefully this will be a much simpler change, as all the ground work has been laid. I see that as preferable to rechartering LTRU with a very similar charter next year. -- It was dreary and wearisome. Cold clammy winter still held way in this forsaken country. The only green was the scum of livid weed on the dark greasy surfaces of the sullen waters. Dead grasses and rotting reeds loomed up in the mists like ragged shadows of long-forgotten summers. --"The Passage of the Marshes" http://www.ccil.org/~cowan _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 15:21:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmAf-0003f0-AU; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:21:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmAe-0003er-7C for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:21:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13213 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPmKy-0004es-3W for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:32:29 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:21:30 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:21:30 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:21:11 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Thread-Index: AcXPV/c0ZrIf5DL8Qu2mt6+t5XtXHAACaAyw From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Randy Presuhn" , "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2005 19:21:30.0519 (UTC) FILETIME=[263CCA70:01C5CF62] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org So... I haven't seen any comments on my proposed changes to make = draft-05 in response to Mark et als comments about lists of language = ranges. So I'm going to submit it tonight. I think I've done a deep enough review and am working on an = implementation set, personally. No one else is commenting. I vote: we're = done enough. Let's do a last call. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: 2005?10?12? 14:10 > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards >=20 > Hi - >=20 > > From: "Tex Texin" > > To: "Scott Hollenbeck" > > Cc: "'LTRU WG'" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:53 AM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards > > > > Informal's fine, I'll buy the donuts. > > ;-) > > tex > ... >=20 > Thanks for the generous offer, as qualified by our AD. >=20 > By December I would hope that this WG would be history, so > such a gathering would clearly be informal. (Unless, after completing > the matching work, the WG agrees to request additions to its charter > and the IESG is willing to extend it.) >=20 > If we are to finish according to current schedule, the matching > draft will need to have WG last call in its current form, or an > update submitted by Monday October 17th. Clocks are ticking. >=20 > Randy >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 15:29:24 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmI0-0005r9-8p; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:29:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmHw-0005qu-QR; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:29:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13511; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPmSB-0004qO-Gm; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:39:57 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:29:00 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:29:00 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF63.31E96690" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:28:41 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: submission: draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05 Thread-Index: AcXPYybbiWmyo2LqQFCtgqI7LnU8DQ== From: "Addison Phillips" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Oct 2005 19:29:00.0051 (UTC) FILETIME=[322DEE30:01C5CF63] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a4ba408990f83ef962b4876088b8c71a Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: [Ltru] submission: draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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ICAgICBbUGFnZSAyNl0KDAo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF63.31E96690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF63.31E96690-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 15:56:19 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmi3-0005Dy-Am; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:56:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPmi1-0005Da-OF for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:56:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16127 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPmsN-0006B0-18 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:07:01 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EPmht-0000UJ-Nu; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:56:10 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051012211815.060f2dc0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:20:51 +0200 To: "John.Cowan" , Randy Presuhn From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: <20051012190538.GA1344@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <434D0738.F132FC63@i18nguy.com> <009901c5cf58$34861000$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> <20051012190538.GA1344@NYCMJCOWA2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 21:05 12/10/2005, John.Cowan wrote: >I see that as preferable to rechartering LTRU with a very similar >charter next year. The best interest of the IETF, SSDOs and Internet users is certainly to have this WG closed. And a WG-globalisation created with a new preparation round and a Charter preventing political siding. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 16:34:11 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPnIh-0004rv-C4; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:34:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPnIe-0004r7-TW for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:34:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01875 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPnSx-0003d4-Jn for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:44:51 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9CKXr9B030561 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:33:53 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9CKXr6E108920 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:33:53 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9CKXrKx016009 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:33:53 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-106-13.mts.ibm.com [9.48.106.13]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9CKXpC9015912; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:33:53 -0400 Message-ID: <434D732F.8080507@icu-project.org> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:33:51 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Addison Phillips Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: LTRU Working Group X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +2 Addison Phillips wrote: >So... I haven't seen any comments on my proposed changes to make draft-05 in response to Mark et als comments about lists of language ranges. So I'm going to submit it tonight. > >I think I've done a deep enough review and am working on an implementation set, personally. No one else is commenting. I vote: we're done enough. Let's do a last call. > >Addison > >Addison P. Phillips >Globalization Architect, Quest Software >Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > >Internationalization is not a feature. >It is an architecture. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Randy Presuhn >>Sent: 2005?10?12? 14:10 >>To: LTRU Working Group >>Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards >> >>Hi - >> >> >> >>>From: "Tex Texin" >>>To: "Scott Hollenbeck" >>>Cc: "'LTRU WG'" >>>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:53 AM >>>Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards >>> >>>Informal's fine, I'll buy the donuts. >>>;-) >>>tex >>> >>> >>... >> >>Thanks for the generous offer, as qualified by our AD. >> >>By December I would hope that this WG would be history, so >>such a gathering would clearly be informal. (Unless, after completing >>the matching work, the WG agrees to request additions to its charter >>and the IESG is willing to extend it.) >> >>If we are to finish according to current schedule, the matching >>draft will need to have WG last call in its current form, or an >>update submitted by Monday October 17th. Clocks are ticking. >> >>Randy >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ltru mailing list >>Ltru@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 20:06:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPqbp-0000bE-RS; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:06:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPqbo-0000b6-5v for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:06:08 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA13083 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EPqab-0002LA-Vo for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:04:54 +0200 Received: from 212.82.251.209 ([212.82.251.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:04:53 +0200 Received: from nobody by 212.82.251.209 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:04:53 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:02:50 +0200 Organization: Lines: 18 Message-ID: <434DA42A.42F8@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20050922160912.KKYO5972.edge6.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> <006101c5c178$904c8f60$030aa8c0@DEWELL> <433674CC.78BC@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.82.251.209 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] News flash (was: record jar reference) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Update: > I'd still like a real registry URL in the stub chapter 3 > later in AUTH48 So far 2+3 : 0+0. Russ' comment: | In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be | useful for the document to include the URL of the IANA | registry. It seems to me that anyone interested in this | document will want to locate the IANA registry too. Sam added another comment that he prefers BCP, not PS, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_comment&id=40723 https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13008 (Sorry, for me the procedure is still exciting ;-) Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 12 20:36:32 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPr5D-00007q-V4; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:36:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPr5D-00007X-8g for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:36:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14039 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPrFc-0001My-Pb for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:47:17 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-7-34.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.7.34] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EPr53-0007Eb-00; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:36:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c5cf8e$98376500$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "Michelle Cotton" , "'Scott Hollenbeck'" References: <200510130009.j9D09NQ14931@santee.icann.org> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:39:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - I've cc-ed the ltru working group in case I answer any of Michelle's questions incorrectly. > From: "Michelle Cotton" > To: "'Scott Hollenbeck'" ; > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:09 PM > Subject: Late questions on LTRU documents > > Scott and Randy, > > Apologies for not getting these to you sooner. I went through the massive > amounts of comments but still have the following comments/questions for > these documents. > > Sorry if some of my comments sound repetitive or strange...I've been > reviewing too many documents today .... No problem. My responses are in-line below. Don't hesitate to ask for clarification if they don't help. > Thanks, > > Michelle > (on behalf of IANA) > > Draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13.txt > The following 2 registries will be marked as OBSOLETE (these will not be > added to or modified). > http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-tags > http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-tag-apps.htm Correct. > In section 5.1, one sentence says "Records MUST NOT be deleted from the > registry." Later in that same paragraph it says "Modified records MUST > overwrite the record they replace." Isn't that the same as deleting an old > one adding a new one? Does that really mean Records can not just be deleted > without a replacement? Just double-checking. Yes, it means that records must not simply be deleted without a replacement. > For the following: > "In the event that the File-Date record present in the registry has a > later date then the record being inserted or modified, the existing > record MUST be preserved." > I may just be tired...just making sure this means that if there is a later > date in the registry, and IANA receives an "INSERT" with an earlier date, > IANA is supposed to keep the more current date? No. As I understand it, the text says if the date on an update record is less recent than the File-Date, then the update/insertion cannot take place. The sentence before the one you quoted says "Included in any request to insert or modify records MUST be a new File-Date record." Taken together, these mean that requests need to be processed in the order of their File-Date records, and imply that language tag reviewers should take some care that these requests are sent to IANA in the right order. > The IANA will create/maintain 2 registires: > Language Subtag Registry > Extensions Registry > > I'm a bit confused about the Extensions Registry. Is there an initial > registry? Yes, but there's very little to go in it. As described on page 37: An initial version of the Language Extension Registry described in Section 3.7 is also needed. The Language Extension Registry SHALL be initialized with a single record containing a single field of type "File-Date" as a placeholder for future assignments. > Am I understanding correctly that for Extensions, these will only be > submitted by the IESG or the "maintaining authority". If there are no > initial extensions how do I know what the maintaining authorities are? As I see it, the IANA Considerations Section of an RFC defining an extension would supply the required information to go into the registry. The "maintaining authority" for each extension will be defined in its respective RFC. > For the Language Subtags, do I understand correctly that they IANA will > continue with the same procedure of waiting for approval from the language > tag expert? Yes. (Section 3.2, 3.5) > Is the expert going to remain the same? I do not know, but would hope so. Section 3.8 says: "Until the IESG officially appoints a Language Subtag Reviewer, the existing Language Tag Reviewer SHALL serve as the Language Subtag Reviewer." > Draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05.txt > I understand this document to contain the initial registrations for the NEW > Language Subtag Registry. It is in record-jar format. Is this something > that can just be cut and pasted into a text document (minus all the document > header/footers/extra spaces)? Yes. If you like, the document's editor can supply IANA with the data. > Does IANA need to do anything with the omitted code elements in section 4? No. They are there for historical interest only. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 01:46:52 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPvvY-0002Xb-LT; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:46:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPvvW-0002XW-Pn for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:46:51 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA25141 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 01:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EPvu3-0000kf-6i for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:19 +0200 Received: from 212.82.251.209 ([212.82.251.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:19 +0200 Received: from nobody by 212.82.251.209 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:19 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:40:30 +0200 Organization: Lines: 15 Message-ID: <434DF34E.1734@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20050922160912.KKYO5972.edge6.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> <006101c5c178$904c8f60$030aa8c0@DEWELL> <433674CC.78BC@xyzzy.claranet.de> <434DA42A.42F8@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.82.251.209 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: News flash X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=13008 > (Sorry, for me the procedure is still exciting ;-) Arrgghh. We caught a DISCUSS from Bill for an ABNF error, now that was unnecessary. In -09 it was still okay, somewhere in the "ABNF beautification" thread we dropped the ball, the last valid ABNF was OTOH it's simple to fix it, insert the missing space, and if that's Bill's only problem we would be already at 2+5 : 0+0. So it's only 2+4 : 1+0, and AFAIK all are free to change their votes until we have x+y = 9 without any DISCUSS. Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 02:02:26 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPwAc-0006yp-Qz; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:02:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPwAb-0006yk-8Z for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:02:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA25974 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPwL2-0008G9-IM for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:13:13 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-7-34.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.7.34] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EPwAQ-00073J-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:02:14 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c5cfbc$1e935320$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <20050922160912.KKYO5972.edge6.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org><006101c5c178$904c8f60$030aa8c0@DEWELL><433674CC.78BC@xyzzy.claranet.de> <434DA42A.42F8@xyzzy.claranet.de> <434DF34E.1734@xyzzy.claranet.de> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:05:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] ABNF typo (Was: News flash) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Frank Ellermann" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:40 PM > Subject: [Ltru] Re: News flash ... > Arrgghh. We caught a DISCUSS from Bill for an ABNF error, now > that was unnecessary. In -09 it was still okay, somewhere in > the "ABNF beautification" thread we dropped the ball, the last > valid ABNF was > > OTOH it's simple to fix it, insert the missing space, and if > that's Bill's only problem we would be already at 2+5 : 0+0. ... Bill Fenner's comment reads: | A minor typo in the ABNF: there needs to be a space in between the ) and [ of | | field-name = (ALPHA / DIGIT)[*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)] | | '(ALPHA/DIGIT)' and '[*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)]' are both , | which is a degenerate of , and concatenation is | | concatenation = repetition *(1*c-wsp repetition) | | note 1* = at least one whitespace I assume the WG would have no objections to fixing this typo. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 03:40:28 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxhU-0006Ha-IA; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:40:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxhT-0006HS-B8 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:40:27 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29898 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EPxfa-0001VB-L5 for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:38:30 +0200 Received: from 212.82.251.209 ([212.82.251.209]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:38:30 +0200 Received: from nobody by 212.82.251.209 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:38:30 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:36:34 +0200 Organization: Lines: 12 Message-ID: <434E0E82.225A@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20050922160912.KKYO5972.edge6.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org><006101c5c178$904c8f60$030aa8c0@DEWELL><433674CC.78BC@xyzzy.claranet.de> <434DA42A.42F8@xyzzy.claranet.de> <434DF34E.1734@xyzzy.claranet.de> <001c01c5cfbc$1e935320$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.82.251.209 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > I assume the WG would have no objections to fixing this typo. I'd guess so, but to get rid of the DISCUSS we probably need a -14, a promise to fix it in AUTH48 can't be good enough for an ABNF error. Stupid... I should have known this, it was the same issue with SPF, but there we somehow managed to fix the last ABNF typo virtually minutes before the final submission. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 03:41:39 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxid-0006fa-3c; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:41:39 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxib-0006fV-6H for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:41:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29980 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPxt2-0002FM-M0 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:52:26 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO i18nguy.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 13 Oct 2005 02:38:16 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,209,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="100632564:sNHT26787954" Message-ID: <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:38:13 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id DAA29980 Cc: 'LTRU WG' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sorry, there isn't a budget to fund travel or accommodation. I won't commit to publishing minutes as coming just before the holidays I= am going to be busy on several fronts. But I will keep it in mind and it is = my intention to do so. As for your last question about the IETF taking sides, I am not sure wher= e that is coming from. Neither I nor the conference requested anything of IETF. tex r&d afrac wrote: >=20 > At 14:22 12/10/2005, Scott Hollenbeck wrote: >=20 > > There's nothing stopping anyone from getting togther informally, of > > course. >=20 > Even in Versailles :-) ? >=20 > Tex, > I note that I hold a workshop in Paris on that theme, in July. I paid f= or > the travel and possibly the accomodation of the panelists I invited. Do > you think you could do the same? It would certainly help. Or is it pure= ly > commercial? > Anyway we have an Eurolinc BoD Meeting this AM: I will extend them your > invitation and pass it to the MINC BoD and send it on the NICSO Broadca= st. > But please note that the date is between Tunis and Xmas, so you may not > get all the "governance" attendance you might want. > Will you publish the minutes of the meeting? > jfc >=20 > PS. I found on the site some thinkings I think of interest to understan= d > people in our area >=20 > "Good standards can drive industries and grow markets. This summit will > focus on the technology and business needs that benefit from standards.= " > Donald A. DePalma > Common Sense Advisory, Inc. >=20 > -> the problem of this WG: we did not ask ourselves what is a "good" > standard. We constrained an existing one to reduce its leaks. >=20 > "Many constituencies in our industry are developing standards > independently of one another, sometimes even competing ones. It's time = to > bring the standards efforts together so we can all benefit from the val= ue > that good, universally accepted standards provide." > Hans Fenstermacher > President, ArchiText=AE >=20 > -> full agreement. I whish him luck. >=20 > "We need to promote the maintenance and development of standards with t= he > help of all constituencies, standards that all constituencies will upho= ld > because they were involved in their development." > Kim Harris > Partner, text & form >=20 > -> the only solution. Not yet ours however. >=20 > "Most companies assume that standards addressing language technologies = and > quality are the 'right stuff'. Standards are usually designed by expert= s > to meet known industry needs. But these standards do not fit all potent= ial > uses. We have long needed a dialogue on language standards to help peop= le > make distinctions. This summit is the first time that this is being > offered." > Tex Texin > Chief architect and globalization consultant, Xencraft >=20 > -> the WG-ltru could have been this first time. The network is the core= of > the human life in our century. Networked is now more important than spo= ken > and writen in languages. The current Unicode lead thinking shows some > progress from hardware to software, but not yet to brainware. There is = a > commercial objection to that IAB well describe in RFC 3869. As long as = we > do not overcome it, languages will not be link between people but a > weapon. >=20 > This " http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/10/06/64579.html" stays the > best evaluation I saw for a long. A response given by Mark Davis yester= day > on unicode@unicode.org, shows the difference in the words used, and in = the > supported concepts, and therefore possibly targeted objectives. When > people are talking souls, cultures, relations, jobs, development ... ou= r > role is to support and permit developers to serve them, >=20 > > "1. A localized product is one that is adapted to meet the language, > cultural and other requirements of a specific target market (a "locale"= )." > "2. An internationalized software product is one that can be localized = to > any single locale without code changes." > "3. A globalized software product is one that is internationalized, and > also supports multiple data locales at runtime. It may also support a > runtime choice among UI locales." > >=20 > is technically correct, but so "bleak" because limited. Weapons are ble= ak. >=20 > It is always dangerous to play with weapons. >=20 > Do you really want the IETF to politically side with this? I would be > proud to be banned if they did. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 03:44:04 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxky-0007wH-Jr; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:44:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPxkx-0007w5-Jk for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:44:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00111 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPxvR-0002KC-7u for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:54:53 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO i18nguy.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 13 Oct 2005 02:43:39 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,209,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="100643381:sNHT21457420" Message-ID: <434E0218.BF06CB4@i18nguy.com> Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:43:36 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <434D0738.F132FC63@i18nguy.com> <009901c5cf58$34861000$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: LTRU Working Group X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org In that event I'll put birthday candles in the donuts! > Hi - > > > > Informal's fine, I'll buy the donuts. > > ;-) > > tex > ... > > Thanks for the generous offer, as qualified by our AD. > > By December I would hope that this WG would be history, so > such a gathering would clearly be informal. (Unless, after completing > the matching work, the WG agrees to request additions to its charter > and the IESG is willing to extend it.) > > If we are to finish according to current schedule, the matching > draft will need to have WG last call in its current form, or an > update submitted by Monday October 17th. Clocks are ticking. > > Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 05:04:21 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPz0f-0004Wa-CP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:04:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPz0c-0004Vv-Mc for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:04:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04087 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anubis.medic.chalmers.se ([129.16.30.218]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPzB5-0004g6-QY for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:15:09 -0400 X-Medic-Info: ea.434e2307.0 K1xdw2q7cAAKXsqK Received: from webmail.chalmers.se (elbe1.ita.chalmers.se [129.16.222.100]) by mail.chalmers.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF2DE469; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:04:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 83.248.26.202 (SquirrelMail authenticated user kent); by webmail.chalmers.se with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:04:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <64054.83.248.26.202.1129194247.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se> In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cf8e$98376500$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> References: <200510130009.j9D09NQ14931@santee.icann.org> <000d01c5cf8e$98376500$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:04:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "Randy Presuhn" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: LTRU Working Group , Michelle Cotton X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org >> "In the event that the File-Date record present in the registry has= a >> later date then the record being inserted or modified, the existing While we're fixing typos: I suppose "later date then" should really be "later date than". Or even "later date than the File-Date field of". /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 06:56:40 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ0lM-0000IV-IO; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:56:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ0lI-0000II-NO for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:56:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA09412 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ0vm-0007dU-Jo for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:07:27 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:56:18 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:56:18 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 03:55:46 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Thread-Index: AcXPybfhl9gQSmiURA6wpaA00jx7ygAGtCKA From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Frank Ellermann" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2005 10:56:18.0309 (UTC) FILETIME=[BD2A5B50:01C5CFE4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy: Should I submit a draft-14? I have no objection to fixing a bug in the = registry format ABNF. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Frank Ellermann > Sent: 2005?10?13? 3:37 > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) >=20 > Randy Presuhn wrote: >=20 > > I assume the WG would have no objections to fixing this typo. >=20 > I'd guess so, but to get rid of the DISCUSS we probably need a > -14, a promise to fix it in AUTH48 can't be good enough for an > ABNF error. Stupid... I should have known this, it was the > same issue with SPF, but there we somehow managed to fix the > last ABNF typo virtually minutes before the final submission. >=20 > Bye, Frank >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 07:37:58 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1PK-0002aE-QV; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:37:58 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1PJ-0002ZB-G6 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:37:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11486 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ1Zo-0000Kf-54 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:48:49 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:37:43 -0400 id 005CC860.434E4707.0000135C From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Addison Phillips'" , ltru@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:37:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXPybfhl9gQSmiURA6wpaA00jx7ygAGtCKAAAFLQHA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:56 AM > To: Frank Ellermann; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) > > Randy: > > Should I submit a draft-14? I have no objection to fixing a > bug in the registry format ABNF. [jumping in] Hold on until after the telechat. All positions are not yet recorded, so we don't yet know what else might come up. The process is that we can either leave the document as-is and ask the RFC Editor to make minor fixes, or we can update the document before it goes to the RFC Editor. I usually suggest the latter approach since I prefer to control edits for as long as we can. So start -14. Just don't do anything with it until after I have a chance to close with Randy. I also need to discuss the BCP vs. PS question during the telechat. One AD (Sam Hartman) has already documented his opinion in his review comments. -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 07:43:56 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1V6-0004ry-Cw; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:43:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1V4-0004mK-LQ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:43:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11830 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ1fZ-0000Uk-4s for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:54:46 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:43:38 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:43:37 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:43:04 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Thread-Index: AcXPybfhl9gQSmiURA6wpaA00jx7ygAGtCKAAAFLQHAAAF/mUA== From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2005 11:43:37.0585 (UTC) FILETIME=[59817E10:01C5CFEB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Okay. That sounds good. I'm maintaining a draft-14 as editor's copy. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Hollenbeck [mailto:sah@428cobrajet.net] > Sent: 2005?10?13? 7:38 > To: Addison Phillips; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:56 AM > > To: Frank Ellermann; ltru@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) > > > > Randy: > > > > Should I submit a draft-14? I have no objection to fixing a > > bug in the registry format ABNF. >=20 > [jumping in] >=20 > Hold on until after the telechat. All positions are not yet recorded, = so > we > don't yet know what else might come up. >=20 > The process is that we can either leave the document as-is and ask the = RFC > Editor to make minor fixes, or we can update the document before it = goes > to > the RFC Editor. I usually suggest the latter approach since I prefer = to > control edits for as long as we can. >=20 > So start -14. Just don't do anything with it until after I have a = chance > to > close with Randy. >=20 > I also need to discuss the BCP vs. PS question during the telechat. = One > AD > (Sam Hartman) has already documented his opinion in his review = comments. >=20 > -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 07:45:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1WH-000552-Na; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ1WF-00054v-MG for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11873 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ1gl-0000W8-94 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:55:59 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:44:58 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:44:57 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 04:44:25 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents Thread-Index: AcXP1Tdo4KPszS6bScWhrTy0EzqQ4wAFi/+Q From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Kent Karlsson" , "Randy Presuhn" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2005 11:44:57.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[895B3F90:01C5CFEB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Michelle Cotton , LTRU Working Group X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Good catch. I corrected this in my editor's copy just now. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Kent Karlsson > Sent: 2005?10?13? 5:04 > To: Randy Presuhn > Cc: LTRU Working Group; Michelle Cotton > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents >=20 > >> "In the event that the File-Date record present in the registry = has > a > >> later date then the record being inserted or modified, the = existing >=20 > While we're fixing typos: >=20 > I suppose "later date then" should really be "later date than". >=20 > Or even "later date than the File-Date field of". >=20 > /kent k >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 08:36:33 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2K1-0001Xy-BQ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2K0-0001Wy-6k for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14879 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [65.246.141.36] (helo=mail.reutershealth.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ2UV-00024O-7s for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:47:24 -0400 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j9DCaDQd017468; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:36:13 -0400 From: "John.Cowan" To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Late questions on LTRU documents Message-ID: <20051013123613.GD5428@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <200510130009.j9D09NQ14931@santee.icann.org> <000d01c5cf8e$98376500$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cf8e$98376500$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: LTRU Working Group , Michelle Cotton X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > [R]equests need to be processed in the order of their > File-Date records, and imply that language tag reviewers should take some > care that these requests are sent to IANA in the right order. The simplest way to ensure this is for the LSR should set the File-Date to the date the record is transmitted to IANA. -- Is a chair finely made tragic or comic? Is the John Cowan portrait of Mona Lisa good if I desire to see jcowan@reutershealth.com it? Is the bust of Sir Philip Crampton lyrical, www.ccil.org/~cowan epical or dramatic? If a man hacking in fury www.reutershealth.com at a block of wood make there an image of a cow, is that image a work of art? If not, why not? --Stephen Dedalus _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 08:41:34 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2Os-0002t5-BB; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:41:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2Or-0002t0-Ai for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:41:33 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15136 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ2LG-0004hH-7a for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:37:50 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.208]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:37:50 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:37:50 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:34:29 +0200 Organization: Lines: 8 Message-ID: <434E5455.3089@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips wrote: > sounds good. I'm maintaining a draft-14 as editor's copy. One space added ? While you're at it you could also replace 2234bis by 4234 in -14. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 08:47:28 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2Ua-0004Q5-O3; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:47:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2Ua-0004Q0-0D for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:47:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15350 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ2f5-0002Kg-4C for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:58:20 -0400 Received: from IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.202]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:47:11 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:47:10 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:46:36 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) Thread-Index: AcXP83+OppI/hDV0SmyW+ZDSe8DItgAABB5A From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Frank Ellermann" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2005 12:47:10.0811 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A5D9AB0:01C5CFF4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org 2234bis was replaced by 4234 in my editor's copy previously. One space added? No, three spaces added per Bill Fenner's ABNF processor = canonical format (added spaces replaced by #): field-name =3D (ALPHA / DIGIT)#[#*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / = DIGIT)#] I also updated my xml2rfc (don't know what impact that will have) and = changed the figure title for the registry ABNF per Elwyn's note, as well = as doing the s/then/than from Kent Karlsson's note. That summarizes the changes in the proto-draft-14, I believe. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Frank Ellermann > Sent: 2005?10?13? 8:34 > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) >=20 > Addison Phillips wrote: >=20 > > sounds good. I'm maintaining a draft-14 as editor's copy. >=20 > One space added ? While you're at it you could also replace > 2234bis by 4234 in -14. > Bye, Frank >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 09:04:31 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2l5-0008Li-2s; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:04:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ2l3-0008LF-6R for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:04:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16088 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ2vY-0002kk-9x for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:15:21 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQ2ku-0005dc-D8; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:04:20 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:17:00 +0200 To: Tex Texin From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: 'LTRU WG' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 08:38 13/10/2005, Tex Texin wrote: >Neither I nor the conference requested anything of IETF. Dear Tex, I am talking to you, not to the conference. You support this WG-ltru "consensus". There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with "s"). - globalization: end to end English/ASCII core based internationalisation + localizations. - globalisation: end to end universalisation + open localisation + multilingualisation + vernacularised multiculturation "z" comes with constraints, options and layer violations to support multilingual/vernacular/security constraints over mostly what is mostly written language end to end support (computer oriented). [if you remove the constraints, it is acceptable as a default for an English system/e-commerce document international support/translation]. "s" comes with the need of a big but necessary work on reference/context registry distribution (DRS). It opens the door to extended services to the relation (IETF/IAB approaches with OPES) and mostly considers networked languages new issues (the conference seems to do that in part, good!) This conflict is technically the founding conflict (any other conflict and resolution needs a language to be discussed and a document to be settled) of the current more general conflict between the USA and the rest of the world (disregard the DNS issue, it is only a (poor) pretext). This conflict is between: - a closed commercial approach based upon constraint and a 10 year IETF culture by Harald Alvestrand. Some label its consequences as "shaping the world" or "war on culture". - and an open standardisation JTC1/SC32/W2 effort based, still needing a lot of works and developments, but already usable, ISO 11179. This WG decided against ISO 11179 conformance with Peter Constable's approach of ISO 639-3. While Debbie Garside documented the ISO 639-6 ISO 11179 conformance. It also disregarded AFRAC needs of full information interregistration (and MPA, MPEG, etc.). I fully understand the underlaying commercial interests. They shown they have fully understood the danger for them of my user QA, political objections and plea for open standards. I proposed a compromise, but commercial interests need exclusive, even if it is an illusory one, on a sheet of paper. Notwithstanding, the RFC 3066 bis is a sided political declaration. It supports a vision currently opposed by most of the world, and giving more importance to that opposition due to the importance it gives to ISO 3166. I am sure most in this WG do not intend it this way. But this is what they permit. I suspect that if you listen carefully at what some of the Berlin attendees will say (as did the Paris, and the Versailles attendees and NICSO readers) you will hear something along this line. At least you will be prepared. In any case this conference _is_ interesting. If you can produce notes on it, it would be _great_ for poorly Gov funded and non-profit organisations like us. Take care. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 09:37:15 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ3Gl-0008Q0-OF; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:37:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ3Gk-0008Ps-Oy for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:37:14 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17838 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ3EU-0001uD-CH for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:34:54 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.208]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:34:54 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:34:54 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:30:30 +0200 Organization: Lines: 33 Message-ID: <434E6176.65FC@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-208.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNF typo (Was: News flash) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips wrote: > three spaces added per Bill Fenner's ABNF processor canonical > format (added spaces replaced by #): > field-name = (ALPHA / DIGIT)#[#*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)#] Works (with SP for # of course). In theory... | field-name = (ALPHA / DIGIT)#[*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)] ...works also. Don't laugh, it's critical, with three spaces you'd get 74 columns, with one space you're still within 72. > I also updated my xml2rfc (don't know what impact that will > have) Better check the ToC for oddities. If the appendices show up before the author's address it's fine, that's a feature, the new experimental xml2rfc sorts sections as the RfC-editor wants it. > changed the figure title for the registry ABNF per Elwyn's > note Good, don't forget the date (today), the -14, and a forward of the I-D announce mail to Bill so that he can clear his DISCUSS a.s.a.p. We are at 2+6 : 1+0, Bill's vote shifted, and it's approved :-) Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 11:12:03 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ4kV-0002Ro-J4; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:12:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ4kT-0002Rb-HI for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:12:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23021 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anubis.medic.chalmers.se ([129.16.30.218]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ4ux-0006NO-C0 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:22:54 -0400 X-Medic-Info: 3e3b.434e7937.0 4JyTStuyM7Iv5w5W Received: from webmail.chalmers.se (elbe1.ita.chalmers.se [129.16.222.100]) by mail.chalmers.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6C1DE57 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:11:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 83.248.26.202 (SquirrelMail authenticated user kent); by webmail.chalmers.se with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:11:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <62152.83.248.26.202.1129216311.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:11:51 +0200 (CEST) From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "LTRU Working Group" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8041eca2a724d631b098c15e9048ce9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ltru] ABNFs in draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > language-range =3D language-tag / "*" > language-tag =3D 1*8[alphanum] *["-" 1*8alphanum] But we have Language-Tag (titlecase name) in -registry. Why this confusing language-tag (lowercase name) in -matching, with quite a different grammar? Why not reuse the Language-Tag of -registry? And that without quoting the grammar, just referring to -registry. > alphanum =3D ALPHA / DIGIT In -registry that is alphanum =3D (ALPHA / DIGIT) ; letters and numbers Now that spaces are so important, I'm not sure how important the parentheses are... But that is moot if we just refer to the Language-Tag ABNF of -registry. I would also prefer to have the alternative on a line by itself. The figure should have a number and a figure caption: "Basic language range/pattern". Yes, I would still prefer calling these "patterns" rather than "ranges", perhaps with an aliasing in the introduction. ++++++++++++++++++++thus++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Basic-Language-Tag-Pattern =3D Language-Tag / "*" Figure 1: Basic Language Pattern ABNF ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ and add a sentence explaining that the ABNF for Language-Tag can be found in Figure 1 of -registry. ----------- > extended-language-range =3D range ; a range > / privateuse ; private use tag > / grandfathered ; grandfathered registrations I don't like the reuse of non-terminal names. They are defined and used in -registry and they may easily be both informally and formally referred to from the same place. So please use non-terminal names that aren't used in -registry, unless the ABNF for them is exactly the same (in which case we can just refer to figure 1 of -registry for those). ++++++++++++++++++++thus++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Extended-Language-Tag-Pattern =3D langtag-pattern / privateuse ; private use tag / grandfathered ; grandfathered registrations ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Note that the grammar for grandfathered is just as in -registry, and we need only refer to figure 1 of -registry. > range =3D (language > ["-" script] > ["-" region] > *("-" variant) > *("-" extension) > ["-" privateuse]) +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ langtag-pattern =3D (language-pattern ["-" script-pattern] ["-" region-pattern] *("-" variant-pattern) *("-" extension-pattern) ["-" privateuse]) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > language =3D (2*3ALPHA [ extlang ]) ; shortest ISO 639 code > / 4ALPHA ; reserved for future use > / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag > / "*" ; ... or wildcard +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ language-pattern =3D (2*3ALPHA [ extlang-pattern ]) / 4ALPHA ; reserved for future use / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > extlang =3D *2("-" 3ALPHA) ("-" ( 3ALPHA / "*")) > ; reserved for future use > ; wildcard can only appear > ; at the end +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ extlang-pattern =3D *2("-" 3ALPHA) ("-" ( 3ALPHA / "*")) ; reserved for future use ; wildcard can only appear ; at the end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > script =3D 4ALPHA ; ISO 15924 code > / "*" ; or wildcard +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ script-pattern =3D 4ALPHA ; ISO 15924 code / "*" ; or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ But it would suffice to say: +++++++++++++++++++++alternative++++++++++++++++++++++ script-pattern =3D script / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ relying on 'script' in figure 1 of -registry. > region =3D 2ALPHA ; ISO 3166 code > / 3DIGIT ; UN M.49 code > / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ region-pattern =3D 2ALPHA ; ISO 3166 code / 3DIGIT ; UN M.49 code / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ But it would suffice to say: +++++++++++++++++++++alternative++++++++++++++++++++++ region-pattern =3D region / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ relying on 'region' in figure 1 of -registry. > variant =3D 5*8alphanum ; registered variants > / (DIGIT 3alphanum) ; > / "*" ; ... or wildcard +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ variant-pattern =3D 5*8alphanum ; registered variants / (DIGIT 3alphanum) ; / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ But it would suffice to say: +++++++++++++++++++++alternative++++++++++++++++++++++ variant-pattern =3D variant / "*" ; ... or wildcard ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ relying on 'variant' in figure 1 of -registry. > extension =3D singleton *("-" (2*8alphanum)) [ "-*" ] > ; extension subtags > ; wildcard can only appear > ; at the end +++++++++++++++++++++and++++++++++++++++++++++++++ extension-pattern =3D singleton *("-" (2*8alphanum)) [ "-*" ] ; extension subtags ; wildcard can only appear ; at the end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > singleton =3D %x41-57 / %x59-5A / %x61-77 / %x79-7A / DIGIT > ; "a"-"w" / "y"-"z" / "A"-"W" / "Y"-"Z" / "0"-"9" > ; Single letters: x/X is reserved for private use > > privateuse =3D ("x"/"X") 1*("-" (1*8alphanum)) > > grandfathered =3D 1*3ALPHA 1*2("-" (2*8alphanum)) > ; grandfathered registration > ; Note: i is the only singleton > ; that starts a grandfathered tag > > alphanum =3D (ALPHA / DIGIT) ; letters and numbers These four last ones are unchanged from -registry language tag ABNF, and we can just refer to figure 1 of -registry. The figure should have a number and a figure caption: Extended language range/pattern. ---------------------- Similarly, several other figures should be numbered and get captions. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 11:15:15 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ4nb-0003EX-Lf; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:15:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ4na-0003ES-ND for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:15:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23127 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anubis.medic.chalmers.se ([129.16.30.218]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ4xu-0006RR-Vm for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:25:56 -0400 X-Medic-Info: 5489.434e79f4.0 GhxgVZfXVBSYjPfq Received: from webmail.chalmers.se (elbe1.ita.chalmers.se [129.16.222.100]) by mail.chalmers.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA38E490 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:15:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 83.248.26.202 (SquirrelMail authenticated user kent); by webmail.chalmers.se with HTTP; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:15:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <62174.83.248.26.202.1129216500.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:15:00 +0200 (CEST) From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "LTRU Working Group" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a-7.EL3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ltru] normative references in draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Please trim the normative references section. I will not bother making a detailed list, since you've discarded and ingored my detailed lists regarding normative references before... /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 12:18:43 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ5hq-0004Gv-He; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:13:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ5ho-0004Gn-DL for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:13:20 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26426 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ5az-0002DJ-0L for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:06:17 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-222.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.222]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:06:16 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-222.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:06:16 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:56:59 +0200 Organization: Lines: 46 Message-ID: <434E83CB.2564@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <62152.83.248.26.202.1129216311.squirrel@webmail.chalmers.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-222.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: ABNFs in draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Kent Karlsson wrote: > alphanum = (ALPHA / DIGIT) ; letters and numbers > Now that spaces are so important, I'm not sure how important > the parentheses are... It's equivalent, the parentheses are unnecessary in this case. 4234 "strongly advises" to use parentheses for something like x = a b / c It's not obvious that this is the same as x = ( a b ) / c. But for y = d / e or for z = f g parentheses are unnecessary. > So please use non-terminal names that aren't used in > -registry, unless the ABNF for them is exactly the same > (in which case we can just refer to figure 1 of -registry > for those). I'd think that readers would appreciate it if used -registry stuff is copied verbatim. References are "cleaner" (impossible to introduce subtle differences), but a reader interested in 47 KB -matching might be unwilling to read 134 KB -registry in parallel only to understand the -matching ABNF... > But it would suffice to say: > +++++++++++++++++++++alternative++++++++++++++++++++++ > variant-pattern > = variant > / "*" ; ... or wildcard > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > relying on 'variant' in figure 1 of -registry. ...okay, if we adopt that idea (dito for some other terms), then a reader simply must get etc. from -registry. Maybe "range" is a better name resulting in... script-range = "*" / script region-range = "*" / region variant-range = "*" / variant ...we discussed this already, but I forgot what the result was. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 12:36:52 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ64a-0003HE-IJ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:36:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ64Y-0003H9-VC for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:36:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27657 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ6F4-0000FU-8I for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:47:45 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:36:34 -0400 id 005CC94A.434E8D12.00005945 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: ltru@ietf.org Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:36:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXQFD86s9usbVViTsKZR6kEestODQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org We just finished the IESG evaluation discussion. Michelle Cotton of IANA still has some questions that might require clarifying text changes. She says she'll get back to us before tomorrow. Nothing else came up. On the BCP vs. PS discussion, the IESG felt that BCP is appropriate. I'll need to add some text to the ballot write-up noting the need for the matching document to completely obsolete 3066; the net effect may be that these documents get held up in the RFC Editor queue until the matching draft catches up. Once we have things cleared up with Michelle it'll be OK to submit -14. I'll then be able to approve the documents. -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 13:03:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6U5-0003El-CN; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:03:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6U3-00039N-O2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:03:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28966 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail07.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.118.23]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ6eY-0000xJ-5l for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:14:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 62534 messnum 2894930 invoked from network[159.134.168.214/159-134-168-214.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net]); 13 Oct 2005 17:02:55 -0000 Received: from 159-134-168-214.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO egt.ie) (159.134.168.214) by mail07.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 62534) with SMTP; 13 Oct 2005 17:02:55 -0000 Message-ID: <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:03:24 +0100 From: Marion Gunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "'LTRU WG'" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id NAA28966 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Scr=EDobh r&d afrac: > > There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with "s") > ... Au contraire - only one way per language: "z" for FR, "s" for EN. >=20 > Take care. Et vous aussi, et assez bien - tec'hed a ra ar Saoz penn-da-benn, pa leveromp-ni: tor e benn!:-) mg > jfc --=20 Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) 27 P=E1irc an Fh=E9ithlinn, Baile an=20 Bh=F3thair, Co. =C1tha Cliath, =C9ire. * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 13:35:36 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6zQ-0004Fw-3K; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:35:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6zO-0004Fr-Vk for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:35:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00733 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail03.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.118.19]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ79s-0001qD-Gz for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:46:27 -0400 Received: (qmail 97292 messnum 280359 invoked from network[159.134.168.214/159-134-168-214.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net]); 13 Oct 2005 17:35:18 -0000 Received: from 159-134-168-214.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO egt.ie) (159.134.168.214) by mail03.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 97292) with SMTP; 13 Oct 2005 17:35:18 -0000 Message-ID: <434E9AF4.5DCF9A2@egt.ie> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:35:48 +0100 From: Marion Gunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU WG'" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id NAA00733 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Before anyone jumps on my lame attempt at humour: "contraire" is meant to be read as en effet (in effect, functionally) reversing the phrase " "z" for FR, "s" for EN" below.=20 If too long a workday for some, please treat one another kindly.:-) mg Scr=EDobh Marion Gunn: >=20 > Scr=EDobh r&d afrac: > > > > There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with "s"= ) > > ... >=20 > Au contraire - only one way per language: "z" for FR, "s" for EN. > ... --=20 Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) 27 P=E1irc an Fh=E9ithlinn, Baile an=20 Bh=F3thair, Co. =C1tha Cliath, =C9ire. * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 15:08:54 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ8Ri-0006q5-Se; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:54 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ8Rg-0006pQ-Uv for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05670 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [65.246.141.36] (helo=mail.reutershealth.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ8cF-0004IY-Dh for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:19:48 -0400 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j9DJ8b8s018702; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:08:36 -0400 From: "John.Cowan" To: Marion Gunn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Message-ID: <20051013190836.GA152@NYCMJCOWA2> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail.reutershealth.com id j9DJ8b8s018702 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Marion Gunn scripsit: > Scr=EDobh r&d afrac: > > > > There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with "s"= ) > > ... >=20 > Au contraire - only one way per language: "z" for FR, "s" for EN. Um, well, no. Not only is "z" correct for en-us, it is also correct for en-gb-oed. --=20 Dream projects long deferred John Cowan usually bite the wax tadpole. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --James Lileks http://www.reutershealth.com _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:17:12 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQARr-00036o-S6; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:17:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQARq-00036K-2Y for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:17:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA18358 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rly-ip07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.11]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQAcL-0001SE-LP for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:28:06 -0400 Received: from smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com (smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com [195.93.24.101]) by rly-ip07.mx.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9DLG7k4010632; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:16:08 -0400 Received: from DEBHOME (ACC823DD.ipt.aol.com [172.200.35.221]) by smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9DLG27L032578; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:16:02 -0400 Message-Id: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> From: "Debbie Garside" To: "'John.Cowan'" , "'Marion Gunn'" Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:16:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcXQKbPgFwglnYQqTuebPsznrfgRggAEGiJQ In-Reply-To: <20051013190836.GA152@NYCMJCOWA2> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.43 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan wrote: > Um, well, no. Not only is "z" correct for en-us, it is also correct = for > en-gb-oed. IMHO, the OED editor must have had American roots when that was added = ;-) Both are correct according to OED. Personally I think only "s" is = correct for en-gb. Just for interest... I think this article is most relevant http://www.britishcouncil.org/seminars-themes-education-0202.htm=20 Debbie Garside > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > John.Cowan > Sent: 13 October 2005 20:09 > To: Marion Gunn > Cc: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards >=20 > Marion Gunn scripsit: > > Scr=EDobh r&d afrac: > > > > > > There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with = "s") > > > ... > > > > Au contraire - only one way per language: "z" for FR, "s" for EN. >=20 > Um, well, no. Not only is "z" correct for en-us, it is also correct = for > en-gb-oed. >=20 > -- > Dream projects long deferred John Cowan > > usually bite the wax tadpole. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > --James Lileks http://www.reutershealth.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:39:15 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQAnD-00029g-Rs; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQAnC-00029b-WB for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19436 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQAxm-000217-Sn for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:50:12 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-34-71.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.34.71] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQAn6-0005Km-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:39:08 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c5d03f$027d2480$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:41:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org HI - > From: "Debbie Garside" > To: "'John.Cowan'" ; "'Marion Gunn'" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 2:16 PM > Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards ... > Just for interest... I think this article is most relevant > http://www.britishcouncil.org/seminars-themes-education-0202.htm ... This article makes no mention of language tagging, or, more pertinent to our current task at hand, algorithms for language tag matching. PLEASE, let's return to the work at hand: we need to finish off the matching draft. Frank and Kent have made substantative comments. I suggest we resolve those comments and make sure we're ready for WG last call on that document. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:54:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQB1d-0005ff-A7; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQB1b-0005eu-QJ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20025 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQBCC-0002L7-Ol for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:05:05 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQB1Z-0007He-14; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:54:05 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051013191740.043ec8d0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:19:35 +0200 To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 18:36 13/10/2005, Scott Hollenbeck wrote: >We just finished the IESG evaluation discussion. Michelle Cotton of IANA >still has some questions that might require clarifying text changes. She >says she'll get back to us before tomorrow. Nothing else came up. > >On the BCP vs. PS discussion, the IESG felt that BCP is appropriate. I'll >need to add some text to the ballot write-up noting the need for the >matching document to completely obsolete 3066; the net effect may be that >these documents get held up in the RFC Editor queue until the matching draft >catches up. > >Once we have things cleared up with Michelle it'll be OK to submit -14. >I'll then be able to approve the documents. Dear Scott, Thank you to let me know the starting date for appeal and Justice actions. Specially in BCP case? Dear all, This most probably closes my WG-ltru duty and starts the IESG and IAB appeals and international and political periods. For reasons I will not review I consider your RFC 3066 bis as an IETF declaration of war on cultures, in full awareness after the IDNA failure. I needed it to be clear to all (exposing who is behind and why), clean (not leaking and definitely opposing or supporting our fully documented users positions and SSDOs documented needs) and in best time (May or now). Not to add confusion on warmonging. I would certainly have preferred this to be a courteous, professional and fast common work, as I proposed it. I accept the aggressivity I met was a patch for missing answers in front of the changes ahead I represented. I learned how to trigger the WG and obtained all what I wanted. I am sorry for Addison, full of respect for Mark and friendly to Peter (read ISO 11179-3 Part 6). Harald plaid his part so well. I thank those who understood/agreed it was our common interest I took the flak in their behalf to avoid possible compromises, helping by private mails/meetings. The world needed an IETF clear cut position, to support or to by-pass. We obtained it. There was little hope the IETF would change political sides. I was the only one who wanted to give it a chance. I lost. Today. I am stubborn. Tunis will say if it is time saving or delaying. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 17:54:11 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQB1f-0005iE-ES; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQB1c-0005f9-Oe for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20029 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQBCC-0002Ko-Op for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:05:06 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQB1W-0007He-20; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:54:02 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051013191620.043cda70@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:53:56 +0200 To: Marion Gunn From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id RAA20029 Cc: 'LTRU WG' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 19:03 13/10/2005, Marion Gunn wrote: >Scr=EDobh r&d afrac: > > There are two ways of considering globalization (with "z" or with "s"= ) > > ... > >Au contraire - only one way per language: "z" for FR, "s" for EN. Non, "z" pour en-US, "s" pour le reste du monde. > > Take care. > >Et vous aussi, et assez bien - tec'hed a ra ar Saoz penn-da-benn, pa >leveromp-ni: tor e benn!:-) Thank you for your help. God bless. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 18:32:21 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBcb-000184-Al; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:32:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBcY-00017t-5w for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:32:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22330 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQBn8-0003T1-DI for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:43:15 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQBcU-00062i-4t; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051013235616.055aace0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:32:01 +0200 To: "Debbie Garside" , "'John.Cowan'" , "'Marion Gunn'" From: r&d afrac Subject: RE: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> References: <20051013190836.GA152@NYCMJCOWA2> <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id SAA22330 Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 23:16 13/10/2005, Debbie Garside wrote: >John Cowan wrote: > > > Um, well, no. Not only is "z" correct for en-us, it is also correct = for > > en-gb-oed. > >IMHO, the OED editor must have had American roots when that was added ;-= ) > >Both are correct according to OED. Personally I think only "s" is corre= ct >for en-gb. > >Just for interest... I think this article is most relevant >http://www.britishcouncil.org/seminars-themes-education-0202.htm This article is quite relevant, but it makes the same mistake as the=20 IETF. So, I think the OED editor has American roots and the BC was=20 not familiar with Eurospeak yet, or still British enough. The today=20 IESG pro globalization position will probably help clarifying this=20 now, in permitting to technically differentiate with globalisation. Global has two meanings. - in English, French, etc. it means all the parts of a whole, united,=20 the globe diversity. Because we ran the Globe and found it diverse. - in American it means universal, unified, "catholic" (in the old Greek s= ense). For example a guy like Jos=E9 Bov=E9 is for globalisation against globali= zation. Now, when you consider language filtering, as it is the case in here,=20 you have a problem. Let just consider the simplest case: a menu with=20 your languages + default. You can either (as documented by Addison)=20 default to American (because you globalize, i.e. internationalise=20 American + localise) or you can default to a more complex (and [non=20 American] real life system) where the default is relative to the=20 interlocutor and the language (then you globalise). Let take an example. We start a chat. You send me your possible=20 langtags. Because I know who you are (layer 6 violation) I will pick=20 English, because I know you care. Now, if I start a chat with Randy=20 (layer 6 violation) I will back to Spanish, because he was hurting=20 enough with my Franglish and I know he lived in South of France, so=20 he may have some practice. So, English (and other Koines - American is the computer koine and an=20 architectural Internet mistake [communications protocols are usually=20 digital to be multilingual]) is like the Esope's tongue. The problem=20 is the filtering policy and this policy depends on the limitations of=20 the protocol it is to work with. The RFC 3066 bis protocol is far too=20 rigid: so whatever the filtering you will use, it will lack the=20 flexibility you might want. Mind you, the problem will be reduced,=20 but will stay with ISO 639-6. The real issue is to accept that networked languages are something=20 apart or/and complementary from their spoken, written, signed,=20 silent, multimedia modes. And that each time a different filtering=20 policy/strategy can be used. And then to design the tools to support=20 them (protocols, identifiers, filters, etc. etc. in a way matching=20 their modal needs) jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 18:50:24 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBu4-000876-Cj; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQBtj-0007uo-Jn; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24889; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQC4J-0004EK-V1; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:01:00 -0400 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQBth-0007ho-Q0; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:50:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Language Tag Registry Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : Matching Tags for the Identification of Languages Author(s) : A. Phillips, M. Davis Filename : draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2005-10-13 This document describes different mechanisms for comparing, matching, and evaluating language tags. Possible algorithms for language negotiation and content selection are described. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-13171815.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-13171815.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --NextPart-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 18:58:33 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQC1x-0002gX-8V; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:58:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQC1v-0002gJ-VA for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:58:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA27014 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eastrmmtao06.cox.net ([68.230.240.33]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQCCU-000519-EI for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:09:29 -0400 Received: from A31P ([68.100.55.187]) by eastrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051013225750.FOGY21663.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@A31P> for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:57:50 -0400 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:58:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXQQKXqzAmYX0vNQGCtJscRRDXDwwACIcAw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051013191740.043ec8d0@mail.afrac.org> Message-Id: <20051013225750.FOGY21663.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@A31P> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I just closed with Michelle of IANA. She has nothing more to add. Randy and editors: please produce an update to address the IESG evaluation comments. -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 13 20:26:35 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQDP8-0006Nw-UH; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:26:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQDP7-0006Nf-Dg for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:26:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06057 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQDZi-0000Ya-Ba for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:37:31 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-34-71.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.34.71] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQDP3-00027Z-00; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:26:29 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c5d056$650ddf60$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , References: <20051013225750.FOGY21663.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@A31P> Subject: Re: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:29:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Scott Hollenbeck" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results > > I just closed with Michelle of IANA. She has nothing more to add. Great! > Randy and editors: please produce an update to address the IESG evaluation > comments. Ok; I'd like the editors to send a list of the *exact* diffs to the WG mailing list (e.g. output of a diff tool) so we can verify with you (and the WG) that everything is as it should be before sending in the update, mindful of the October 24, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off at 09:00 ET (13:00 GMT). Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 07:58:14 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQOCU-00041L-7W; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:58:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQOCQ-0003xG-C6 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:58:12 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA04793 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQOAj-00077u-Ml for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:56:26 +0200 Received: from c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.134.89.30]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:56:25 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:56:25 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:54:27 +0200 Organization: Lines: 13 Message-ID: <434F9C73.888@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> <20051013190836.GA152@NYCMJCOWA2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Conference on Language Standards X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John.Cowan wrote: > it is also correct for en-gb-oed. That's why I like this tag. Maybe the "z" issue is also a reason for the abbreviation I18N. Some case of "while we don't agree how to spell it we can still talk about it". And (the word) I18N is a part of (the problem) I18N. No wonder that it now also attracts folks with a math. background. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 08:17:02 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQOSf-0001FX-8r; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:14:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQOSd-0001E4-DG for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:14:55 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06126 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQOQQ-0003VZ-Kk for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:12:38 +0200 Received: from c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.134.89.30]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:12:38 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:12:38 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:09:46 +0200 Organization: Lines: 12 Message-ID: <434FA00A.615D@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013191620.043cda70@mail.afrac.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Conference on Language Standards X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org r&d afrac wrote: > "z" pour en-US, "s" pour le reste du monde. Not really, de-1996 has its own set of z-rules (the former "potentiell" is now "potenziell"). This isn't about the "rest of the world", but only about some remains of the Roman Empire. Take care, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 10:03:40 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQQ9r-0003Pp-VO; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:03:39 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQQ9q-0003Oa-PY for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:03:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11988 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQQKZ-0004NI-7R for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:14:44 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQQ9k-0003UY-LJ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:03:33 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051014144514.04dc1040@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:02:13 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Conference on Language Standards In-Reply-To: <434FA00A.615D@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013191620.043cda70@mail.afrac.org> <434FA00A.615D@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 14:09 14/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >r&d afrac wrote: > > > "z" pour en-US, "s" pour le reste du monde. > >Not really, de-1996 has its own set of z-rules >(the former "potentiell" is now "potenziell"). > >This isn't about the "rest of the world", but >only about some remains of the Roman Empire. Then the Roman Empire does well !!! May be you thought "old Europe"? As long as I know Germany backs the European position presented by a British delegate. It teams India, China, Russia, Brazil, Arabic world, etc. Times flows, "globalization" is just the current avatar of "kulturkampf".... The same causes lead to the same effects ... But here we discuss filtering. FYI an interestingly considered Government note I just have heard of after IESG 10/13 position: "to filter out" every content including cultural, racial, religious non crypted information not formaly accepted by the receiver, interruption of the access to search engines permitting to obtain lists of content including destinees or authors by cultural, racial, religious general tags or distinctive patterns, supporting an easy identification of the subtags and documented filtering algorithms. They look for a short name for the "spaming" of a person with her own private data in the content/protocols she receives. I was asked if the WG-ltru forged a name to qualify this use of RFC 3066 bis. I said that I was not aware of one? It was suggested "to mark" as a tribute to Mark Davis. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 12:04:51 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQS39-0007Mj-Fz; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:04:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQS36-0007M7-U7 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:04:49 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26371 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQRzY-0006YL-OR for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:01:10 +0200 Received: from c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.134.89.30]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:01:08 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:01:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:54:08 +0200 Organization: Lines: 16 Message-ID: <434FD4A0.235E@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20051013225750.FOGY21663.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@A31P> <002201c5d056$650ddf60$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-134-89-30.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: IESG Telechat Results X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > I'd like the editors to send a list of the *exact* diffs to > the WG mailing list (e.g. output of a diff tool) That used to be difficult, but the new experimental xml2rfc at now offers unpaginated text output, I've just tested it with draft -13. New -14 not yet available in [ There's an interesting draft-phillips-record-jar-00 with valid ABNF, but it's not exactly the same as in -registry ] The IESG evaluation is now at 2+8 : 1+0, bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 12:22:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSKY-0001fI-LA; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:22:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSKX-0001f8-Q6 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:22:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27881 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQSVF-0002hs-Dz for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:33:56 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:22:28 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:22:28 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Thread-Index: AcXQFD86s9usbVViTsKZR6kEestODQAUZxgg From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 16:22:28.0425 (UTC) FILETIME=[7846D390:01C5D0DB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org That's great news. I look forward to receiving Michelle's comments. = Other various changes discussed on list are incorporated into my copy = for submission when you're ready. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Scott Hollenbeck > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 9:36 AM > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results >=20 > We just finished the IESG evaluation discussion. Michelle Cotton of = IANA > still has some questions that might require clarifying text changes. = She > says she'll get back to us before tomorrow. Nothing else came up. >=20 > On the BCP vs. PS discussion, the IESG felt that BCP is appropriate. = I'll > need to add some text to the ballot write-up noting the need for the > matching document to completely obsolete 3066; the net effect may be = that > these documents get held up in the RFC Editor queue until the matching > draft > catches up. >=20 > Once we have things cleared up with Michelle it'll be OK to submit = -14. > I'll then be able to approve the documents. >=20 > -Scott- >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 12:26:01 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSNc-0002CB-UY; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:26:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSNb-0002C3-2N for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:25:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28013 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQSYJ-0002nE-PH for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:06 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:25:47 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:25:46 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results Thread-Index: AcXQVfwvGxmoNuCARBypsWePZVL0DAAhemKw From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Randy Presuhn" , "Scott Hollenbeck" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 16:25:46.0722 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE788C20:01C5D0DB] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Will do. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:30 PM > To: Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results >=20 > Hi - >=20 > > From: "Scott Hollenbeck" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:58 PM > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results > > > > I just closed with Michelle of IANA. She has nothing more to add. >=20 > Great! >=20 > > Randy and editors: please produce an update to address the IESG > evaluation > > comments. >=20 > Ok; I'd like the editors to send a list of the *exact* diffs to the = WG > mailing > list (e.g. output of a diff tool) so we can verify with you (and the = WG) > that > everything is as it should be before sending in the update, mindful of = the > October 24, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off at 09:00 = ET > (13:00 GMT). >=20 > Randy, ltru co-chair >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 12:39:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSb0-0007ni-1G; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:39:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQSay-0007nd-LT for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:39:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28784 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQSli-0003Ad-BH for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:50:55 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:39:38 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:39:37 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: IESG Telechat Results Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: IESG Telechat Results Thread-Index: AcXQ2QVdYiMwbcTXT8CchdIjmOpS+gAA9y1g From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Frank Ellermann" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 16:39:37.0827 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDD91B30:01C5D0DD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I'm traveling and haven't updated the web site yet. When ABNF parser, = idnits, and diff have all run, I'll update the web site and ping the = list, per Randy's instructions... and we'll take it from there. The record-jar draft people are welcome to comment on. I did go to the = trouble of getting Eric Raymond's permission to quote AOUP, etc. This is = not the list to comment on the r-j draft, of course. The list for those = comments is record-jar@yahoogroups.com Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Frank Ellermann > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 8:54 AM > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] Re: IESG Telechat Results >=20 > Randy Presuhn wrote: >=20 > > I'd like the editors to send a list of the *exact* diffs to > > the WG mailing list (e.g. output of a diff tool) >=20 > That used to be difficult, but the new experimental xml2rfc > at now offers > unpaginated text output, I've just tested it with draft -13. >=20 > New -14 not yet available in >=20 > [ There's an interesting draft-phillips-record-jar-00 with > valid ABNF, but it's not exactly the same as in -registry ] >=20 > The IESG evaluation is now at 2+8 : 1+0, bye, Frank >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 13:33:39 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQTR5-0003eh-9s; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:33:39 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQT2G-0002l8-NI for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:08:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00839 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQTCz-00046J-Lt for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:19:07 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQT2D-0004f1-9S for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:07:57 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051014183426.04dbc440@pop.online.fr> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:45:46 +0200 To: ltru@ietf.org From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:33:38 -0400 Subject: [Ltru] filtering - security considerations X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/unarticleid_2888.html This and the Governmental note mentionned in another mail, should lead to a very carefully crafted warning in the security considerations. The standard IETF protection formula does not seem enough in this case, where the mere documentation of how to perpetrate a crime (cultural, racial exclusion) is considered as a crime. I would realy advise the IETF to consult an international lawyer. I say that because the RFC 3066 bis document is subject to this kind of consideration. Until today I did not waste time with lawyers on practical details. Now the IESG has collectively accepted it without any DISCUSS and stabilised the text the matter becomes more interesting for them. My opposition is to the text, not to the IESG, not to the WG, not to the authors. So, I do suggest we do call on ISOC lawyers. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 14:08:04 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQTyO-00079Q-Eb; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:08:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQTyN-00079L-3h for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:08:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03369 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lonsmimeo.rit.reuters.com ([192.165.213.23] helo=lonsmime01.rit.reuters.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQU97-0005TO-GB for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:19:10 -0400 Received: from uknsprd1 (unverified) by lonsmime01.rit.reuters.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.19) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:11:00 +0000 Received: from LONSMSXB02.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.7]) by eupig2.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com (PMDF V6.2-X17 #30843) with ESMTP id <0IOD00GTG3ODYH@eupig2.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com> for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:07:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from LONSMSXM06.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.22]) by LONSMSXB02.emea.ime.reuters.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC (6.0.3790.0); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:07:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:07:25 +0100 From: Misha Wolf To: ltru@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: Route 66 Thread-Index: AcXQ6Bx9WrapIUUTR2iOKV6kB3SrrQ== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 18:07:26.0131 (UTC) FILETIME=[22008030:01C5D0EA] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ltru] Route 66 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? =20 Misha ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com To find out more about Reuters Products and Services visit http://www.reute= rs.com/productinfo=20 Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 15:27:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQVCv-0005m1-H2; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:27:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQVCu-0005kj-5H for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:27:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06255 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQVNd-00079e-ER for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:38:16 -0400 Received: from h-68-166-188-241.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.188.241] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQVCe-0000Fu-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:26:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c5d0f5$b45ebe00$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: Subject: Re: [Ltru] Route 66 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:29:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Misha Wolf" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:07 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Route 66 > > Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? ... No. Assignment of RFC number is left to the whims of the RFC editor. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 15:51:29 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQVaT-0005lw-GO; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:51:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQVZk-0005cr-3G for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:50:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07176 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQVkT-0007or-Hh for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:01:52 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:50:26 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:50:26 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Route 66 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:50:23 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Route 66 Thread-Index: AcXQ6Bx9WrapIUUTR2iOKV6kB3SrrQAED7zQ From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Misha Wolf" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 19:50:26.0487 (UTC) FILETIME=[85C7FC70:01C5D0F8] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org We should and it should be for draft-registry. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Misha Wolf > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:07 AM > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: [Ltru] Route 66 >=20 > Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? >=20 > Misha >=20 >=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com >=20 > To find out more about Reuters Products and Services visit > http://www.reuters.com/productinfo >=20 > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be > the views of Reuters Ltd. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 16:55:51 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQWal-0005y1-DI; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:55:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQWak-0005xr-2O for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:55:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24158 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQWlU-0005xA-Vr for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 17:06:59 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:55:32 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:55:31 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:55:30 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Draft-14 ready... Thread-Index: AcXQVfwvGxmoNuCARBypsWePZVL0DAAhemKwAAkJdvA= From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Addison Phillips" , "Randy Presuhn" , "Scott Hollenbeck" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 20:55:31.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D779700:01C5D101] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [Ltru] Draft-14 ready... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org All: Draft-14 is posted in all three formats on the inter-locale site: http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.xml http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.html http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt IDnits ran clean. ABNF checker ran clean. A diff is posted here: http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-registry-13-14-diff.html The list of changes (edits performed by me) incorporated into draft 14 = is: 1. Updated XML2RFC tool to version 1.30. This caused every header number = to pick up a trailing dot (i.e. "2.1.1." instead of "2.1.1"). It also = caused the artwork titles to be left aligned instead of centered and the = authors addressed to be moved to the bottom just before the IPR = statement. 2. Changed, per Kent's comment, "then" to "than" in Section 5.1. 3. Changed, per Elwyn's comment, the title of Figure 2 (Section 3.1) = from "record-jar ABNF" to "registry format ABNF" 4. Changed the reference from RFC 2234bis to RFC 4234. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Addison Phillips > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 9:26 AM > To: Randy Presuhn; Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results >=20 > Will do. >=20 > Addison >=20 > Addison P. Phillips > Globalization Architect, Quest Software > Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group >=20 > Internationalization is not a feature. > It is an architecture. >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > > Randy Presuhn > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:30 PM > > To: Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results > > > > Hi - > > > > > From: "Scott Hollenbeck" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 3:58 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Ltru] IESG Telechat Results > > > > > > I just closed with Michelle of IANA. She has nothing more to add. > > > > Great! > > > > > Randy and editors: please produce an update to address the IESG > > evaluation > > > comments. > > > > Ok; I'd like the editors to send a list of the *exact* diffs to the = WG > > mailing > > list (e.g. output of a diff tool) so we can verify with you (and the = WG) > > that > > everything is as it should be before sending in the update, mindful = of > the > > October 24, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off at = 09:00 ET > > (13:00 GMT). > > > > Randy, ltru co-chair > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 18:00:16 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQXb6-0007k8-Il; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:00:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQXb4-0007jv-M4 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29361 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQXZM-0000Ho-Sr for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:58:29 +0200 Received: from pd9fbadb6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.251.173.182]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:58:28 +0200 Received: from nobody by pd9fbadb6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:58:28 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:51:47 +0200 Organization: Lines: 66 Message-ID: <43502873.134D@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9fbadb6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Draft-14 ready... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips wrote: > Draft-14 is posted in all three formats on the inter-locale > site Thanks, unpaginated strict='yes' plain text diff added below. Bye, Frank 8,9c8,9 < Expires: March 26, 2006 IBM < September 22, 2005 --- > Expires: April 17, 2006 IBM > October 14, 2005 13c13 < draft-ietf-ltru-registry-13 --- > draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 38c38 < This Internet-Draft will expire on March 26, 2006. --- > This Internet-Draft will expire on April 17, 2006. 157c157 < ABNF [RFC2234bis] %x2D). A language tag consists of a "primary --- > ABNF [RFC4234] %x2D). A language tag consists of a "primary 172c172 < The syntax of the language tag in ABNF [RFC2234bis] is: --- > The syntax of the language tag in ABNF [RFC4234] is: 224c224 < Note that although [RFC2234bis] refers to octets, the language tags --- > Note that although [RFC4234] refers to octets, the language tags 825c825 < is described by the following ABNF (per [RFC2234bis]): --- > is described by the following ABNF (per [RFC4234]): 829c829 < field-name = (ALPHA / DIGIT)[*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)] --- > field-name = (ALPHA / DIGIT) [*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") (ALPHA / DIGIT)] 834c834 < Figure 2: record-jar ABNF --- > Figure 2: registry format ABNF 843c843 < Characters from outside the US-ASCII[ISO646] repertoire, as well as --- > Characters from outside the US-ASCII [ISO646] repertoire, as well as 2153c2153 < later date then the record being inserted or modified, the existing --- > later date than the record being inserted or modified, the existing 2401,2405d2400 < [RFC2234bis] < Crocker, D. and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax < Specifications: ABNF", draft-crocker-abnf-rfc2234bis-00 < (work in progress), March 2005. < 2415a2411,2413 > > [RFC4234] Crocker, D. and P. Overell, "Augmented BNF for Syntax > Specifications: ABNF", RFC 4234, October 2005. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 18:22:55 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQXx1-0007g8-Dp; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:55 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQXwz-0007fd-QU for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA00208 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eastrmmtao04.cox.net ([68.230.240.35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQY7l-0000KJ-JE for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:34:03 -0400 Received: from A31P ([68.100.55.187]) by eastrmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051014222205.OCNI23022.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@A31P>; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:05 -0400 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Addison Phillips'" , "'Randy Presuhn'" , Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcXQVfwvGxmoNuCARBypsWePZVL0DAAhemKwAAkJdvAAA1x+QA== Message-Id: <20051014222205.OCNI23022.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@A31P> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Ltru] Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:56 PM > To: Addison Phillips; Randy Presuhn; Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Draft-14 ready... > > All: > > Draft-14 is posted in all three formats on the inter-locale site: > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.xml > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.html > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt > > IDnits ran clean. > ABNF checker ran clean. > > A diff is posted here: > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-registry-13-14-diff.html > > The list of changes (edits performed by me) incorporated into > draft 14 is: > > 1. Updated XML2RFC tool to version 1.30. This caused every > header number to pick up a trailing dot (i.e. "2.1.1." > instead of "2.1.1"). It also caused the artwork titles to be > left aligned instead of centered and the authors addressed to > be moved to the bottom just before the IPR statement. > > 2. Changed, per Kent's comment, "then" to "than" in Section 5.1. > > 3. Changed, per Elwyn's comment, the title of Figure 2 > (Section 3.1) from "record-jar ABNF" to "registry format ABNF" > > 4. Changed the reference from RFC 2234bis to RFC 4234. All reasonable. Related topic, other document: what do you all think about Russ Housley's comment?: "Russ Housley: Comment: [2005-10-12] In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for the document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to me that anyone interested in this document will want to locate the IANA registry too." -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 18:41:08 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYEd-0004VW-Tl; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYEb-0004VO-W2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA01125 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQYPN-0000jH-Li for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:52:15 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:40:45 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:40:45 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:40:44 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Thread-Index: AcXQVfwvGxmoNuCARBypsWePZVL0DAAhemKwAAkJdvAAA1x+QAAAsgng From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Scott Hollenbeck" , "Randy Presuhn" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2005 22:40:45.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[50CF4510:01C5D110] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I'd support including it. The comment makes sense to me. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Hollenbeck [mailto:sah@428cobrajet.net] > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:23 PM > To: Addison Phillips; 'Randy Presuhn'; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] > > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:56 PM > > To: Addison Phillips; Randy Presuhn; Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org > > Subject: Draft-14 ready... > > > > All: > > > > Draft-14 is posted in all three formats on the inter-locale site: > > > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.xml > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.html > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt > > > > IDnits ran clean. > > ABNF checker ran clean. > > > > A diff is posted here: > > > > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-registry-13-14-diff.html > > > > The list of changes (edits performed by me) incorporated into > > draft 14 is: > > > > 1. Updated XML2RFC tool to version 1.30. This caused every > > header number to pick up a trailing dot (i.e. "2.1.1." > > instead of "2.1.1"). It also caused the artwork titles to be > > left aligned instead of centered and the authors addressed to > > be moved to the bottom just before the IPR statement. > > > > 2. Changed, per Kent's comment, "then" to "than" in Section 5.1. > > > > 3. Changed, per Elwyn's comment, the title of Figure 2 > > (Section 3.1) from "record-jar ABNF" to "registry format ABNF" > > > > 4. Changed the reference from RFC 2234bis to RFC 4234. >=20 > All reasonable. >=20 > Related topic, other document: what do you all think about Russ = Housley's > comment?: >=20 > "Russ Housley: > Comment: > [2005-10-12] > In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for = the > document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to me = that > anyone interested in this document will want to locate the IANA > registry too." >=20 > -Scott- _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 18:50:37 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYNp-0008Rl-3X; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYNn-0008Kv-Fh for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA01811 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e5.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.145]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQYYZ-00010s-Hc for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:01:45 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e5.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9EMoGwi009719 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:16 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9EMoGDn109620 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:16 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9EMoFOh017846 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:16 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-104-139.mts.ibm.com [9.48.104.139]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9EMoDTe017817; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:50:15 -0400 Message-ID: <43503624.3020501@icu-project.org> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:50:12 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Addison Phillips Subject: Re: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +1 Addison Phillips wrote: >I'd support including it. The comment makes sense to me. > >Addison > >Addison P. Phillips >Globalization Architect, Quest Software >Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > >Internationalization is not a feature. >It is an architecture. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Scott Hollenbeck [mailto:sah@428cobrajet.net] >>Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:23 PM >>To: Addison Phillips; 'Randy Presuhn'; ltru@ietf.org >>Subject: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] >>>Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:56 PM >>>To: Addison Phillips; Randy Presuhn; Scott Hollenbeck; ltru@ietf.org >>>Subject: Draft-14 ready... >>> >>>All: >>> >>>Draft-14 is posted in all three formats on the inter-locale site: >>> >>>http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.xml >>>http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.html >>>http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt >>> >>>IDnits ran clean. >>>ABNF checker ran clean. >>> >>>A diff is posted here: >>> >>>http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-registry-13-14-diff.html >>> >>>The list of changes (edits performed by me) incorporated into >>>draft 14 is: >>> >>>1. Updated XML2RFC tool to version 1.30. This caused every >>>header number to pick up a trailing dot (i.e. "2.1.1." >>>instead of "2.1.1"). It also caused the artwork titles to be >>>left aligned instead of centered and the authors addressed to >>>be moved to the bottom just before the IPR statement. >>> >>>2. Changed, per Kent's comment, "then" to "than" in Section 5.1. >>> >>>3. Changed, per Elwyn's comment, the title of Figure 2 >>>(Section 3.1) from "record-jar ABNF" to "registry format ABNF" >>> >>>4. Changed the reference from RFC 2234bis to RFC 4234. >>> >>> >>All reasonable. >> >>Related topic, other document: what do you all think about Russ Housley's >>comment?: >> >>"Russ Housley: >>Comment: >>[2005-10-12] >> In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for the >> document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to me that >> anyone interested in this document will want to locate the IANA >> registry too." >> >>-Scott- >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 18:55:17 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYSL-0002kM-5k; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:55:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQYSJ-0002kA-BR for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:55:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02120 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQYd6-00019d-Ba for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:06:25 -0400 Received: from magus.qualcomm.com (magus.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j9EMsqJl006426; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:54:52 -0700 Received: from [69.181.216.204] (vpn-10-50-0-76.qualcomm.com [10.50.0.76]) by magus.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j9EMsnqB006752; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:54:48 -0700 To: "Addison Phillips" , "Scott Hollenbeck" , "Randy Presuhn" , From: Ted Hardie Subject: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 3:40 PM -0700 10/14/05, Addison Phillips wrote: >I'd support including it. The comment makes sense to me. > >Scott, quoting Russ: > > Comment: >> [2005-10-12] >> In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for the >> document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to me that >> anyone interested in this document will want to locate the IANA > > registry too." > > Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. If you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or redirects to an appropriate URI. I would suggest a pointer to the IANA site instead, since that is likely more stable. My two cents, regards, Ted Hardie _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 21:19:28 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQahs-0003UW-5Y; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:19:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQahr-0003UI-3O for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:19:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09302 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQasf-0004ka-1K for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:30:38 -0400 Received: from h-68-166-188-241.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.188.241] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQahk-00026b-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:19:20 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c5d126$f2afd820$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Subject: Re: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:22:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Ted Hardie" > To: "Addison Phillips" ; "Scott Hollenbeck" ; "Randy Presuhn" ; > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:54 PM > Subject: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) > > At 3:40 PM -0700 10/14/05, Addison Phillips wrote: > >I'd support including it. The comment makes sense to me. > > > >Scott, quoting Russ: > > > Comment: > >> [2005-10-12] > >> In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for the > >> document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to me that > >> anyone interested in this document will want to locate the IANA > > > registry too." > > > > > Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. If > you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or redirects to > an appropriate URI. I would suggest a pointer to the IANA site instead, > since that is likely more stable. ... As a contributor... I prefer this alternative, particularly since the document is only informational. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 14 22:58:06 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQcFK-0002bh-PR; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:58:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQcFJ-0002aa-VC for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:58:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA12541 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQcQ9-0006aB-An for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:09:18 -0400 Received: from c-69-181-135-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (HELO i18nguy.com) ([69.181.135.221]) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 14 Oct 2005 22:57:51 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,216,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="132311908:sNHT20681856" Message-ID: <43507022.A0FB764D@i18nguy.com> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:57:38 -0700 From: Tex Texin Organization: http://www.XenCraft.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> <001501c5d03f$027d2480$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I am surprised, I thought you weren't accepting further substantive comments... I was going to submit some, but held back. Where is this exactly and do you prefer them now or during last call? tex Randy Presuhn wrote: > PLEASE, let's return to the work at hand: we need to finish off the > matching draft. Frank and Kent have made substantative comments. > I suggest we resolve those comments and make sure we're ready > for WG last call on that document. > > Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 00:26:35 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdcx-00009f-KB; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:26:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdcv-00009V-QT for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:26:33 -0400 Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18190 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051015042600.IMRJ27774.mta11.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:26:00 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c5d140$85a01460$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20051014220102.RDGT29651.edge4.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:25:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Route 66 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Misha Wolf wrote: > Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? I understand that the RFC Editor is solely responsible for issuing RFC numbers, and can pick any number imaginable. I don't suppose it would hurt to ask, though, keeping the 1766 -> 3066 legacy in mind. I note that the new successor to RFC 2234, often mentioned in this group, is 4234. Definitely the appropriate document for this would be draft-registry (not -initial or -matching). -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 00:41:24 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdrI-0004lA-Ft; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:41:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdrH-0004l5-GT for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:41:23 -0400 Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18592 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051015044051.XZXU20109.mta9.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:40:51 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c5d142$9774fb40$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:40:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: >>>> In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for >>>> the document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to >>>> me that anyone interested in this document will want to locate the >>>> IANA registry too." >> >> Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. >> If you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or >> redirects to an appropriate URI. I would suggest a pointer to the >> IANA site instead, since that is likely more stable. > ... > > As a contributor... > I prefer this alternative, particularly since the document is only > informational. Somebody please provide the appropriate text, probably for the first paragraph of Section 3, and I will be glad to paste it in and submit it as soon as possible. I note that RFC 3066 specifies only the following for the location of its registry: "The IANA registration forms for registered language codes can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'languages'." The exact URI is not given, probably for the reasons of maintainability that Ted mentioned.. The only other changes to draft-initial that I am aware of are: 1. The usual changes to dates -- document-submitted, document-expires, and the File-Date and every single Added date within the initial registry contents. (Please don't tell me you want those diffs published to the list!) 2. The addition of one primary language subtag, as follows: Type: language Subtag: rup Description: Aromanian Description: Arumanian Description: Macedo-Romanian Added: 2005-10-14 [or whatever] Does anyone believe there are more changes that I missed? -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 00:44:21 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdu8-0005J3-JR; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:44:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQdu5-0005Iv-VP for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:44:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18671 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQe4u-0000yA-4u for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:55:30 -0400 Received: from h-68-166-188-241.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.188.241] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQdtw-0001k4-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:44:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c5d143$8efebb80$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> <001501c5d03f$027d2480$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> <43507022.A0FB764D@i18nguy.com> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:47:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Tex Texin" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards > > I am surprised, I thought you weren't accepting further substantive > comments... > > I was going to submit some, but held back. > Where is this exactly and do you prefer them now or during last call? ... The only remaining work item for the ltru working group is the matching draft. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-matching-05.txt Comments are most welcome, sooner rather than later. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 01:05:54 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQeF0-0004TM-9U; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:05:54 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQeEy-0004T6-Sl for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:05:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19395 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQePp-0001L8-MY for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:17:05 -0400 Received: from h-68-166-188-241.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.188.241] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQeEw-0006RV-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:05:50 -0400 Message-ID: <002801c5d146$96ca8da0$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <003501c5d142$9774fb40$030aa8c0@DEWELL> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:09:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Doug Ewell" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 9:40 PM > Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > >>>> In section 3 of draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05, it might be useful for > >>>> the document to include the URL of the IANA registry. It seems to > >>>> me that anyone interested in this document will want to locate the > >>>> IANA registry too." > >> > >> Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. > >> If you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or > >> redirects to an appropriate URI. I would suggest a pointer to the > >> IANA site instead, since that is likely more stable. > > ... > > > > As a contributor... > > I prefer this alternative, particularly since the document is only > > informational. > > Somebody please provide the appropriate text, probably for the first > paragraph of Section 3, and I will be glad to paste it in and submit it > as soon as possible. > > I note that RFC 3066 specifies only the following for the location of > its registry: "The IANA registration forms for registered language > codes can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under > 'languages'." The exact URI is not given, probably for the reasons of > maintainability that Ted mentioned.. ... How about this: The IANA language subtag registry can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'Language Tags'. Note that the 3066 text isn't even right, which serves to underscore Ted's point. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 01:31:26 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQedi-0003nq-8j; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:31:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQedh-0003nf-B5 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:31:25 -0400 Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA20143 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051015053053.ZARX20109.mta9.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:30:53 -0400 Message-ID: <007e01c5d149$91f1fc20$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20051015050953.GMPR23191.edge2.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:30:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > How about this: > The IANA language subtag registry can be found at > http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'Language Tags'. Very well, then: Section 3 will begin: "The remainder of this section specified the initial set of records for the registry. This material was deleted on publication of this memo, to avoid any potential confusion with the registry itself. The IANA language subtag registry can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'Language Tags'. "[RFC EDITOR NOTE: the remainder of this section is to be deleted upon publication.] "The initial Language Subtag Registry follows..." The only other changes, as mentioned before, would be the new primary language subtag and the mechanical date changes. Does anyone object before I submit this as draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06? -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 03:06:40 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQg7r-0005sH-V2; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:06:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQg7q-0005s6-0a for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:06:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25360 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQgIh-00046c-95 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:17:52 -0400 Received: from spam.cs.tut.fi (unknown [10.11.18.2]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD2AA01 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:06:17 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by spam.cs.tut.fi (spam.cs.tut.fi [10.11.18.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17292-14 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:06:17 +0300 (EEST) Received: from korppi.cs.tut.fi (korppi.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8149BE for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:06:17 +0300 (EEST) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:06:16 +0300 (EEST) From: "Jukka K. Korpela" To: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cs.tut.fi X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Ted Hardie wrote: > Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. Unfortunately, yes. That works against the purposes (the very raison d'etre) of IANA and the registries. > If you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or redirects to > an appropriate URI. If only we could force them! But despite some problems in the past, I think we need to expect IANA to maintain such stability. The other option is to find another registration authority. As Tim Berners-Lee puts it, "Cool URIs don't change", http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI > I would suggest a pointer to the IANA site instead, > since that is likely more stable. A URL _is_ a pointer - a specific, exact pointer. Referring generically to a site (with a domain name, if we can expect that to be stable) is not user-friendly at all. Saying things like "go to http://www.iana.org/, then click on 'bar', then on 'foo', and select 'zap' from the dropdown menu" would look foolish and would not be stable at all but bind us to a particular site design, as opposite to a specific URL, which _can_ be kept working if a site is reorganized. A stable URL is also essential for the ability to link to a document in hypertext. -- Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 04:05:22 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQh2f-0003Xm-PX; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:05:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQh2e-0003Xe-7w for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:05:20 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27126 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQh1b-0005cn-QN for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:04:15 +0200 Received: from pd9fba948.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.251.169.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:04:15 +0200 Received: from nobody by pd9fba948.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:04:15 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:00:22 +0200 Organization: Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4350B716.5076@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20051014220102.RDGT29651.edge4.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> <002f01c5d140$85a01460$030aa8c0@DEWELL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9fba948.dip0.t-ipconnect.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Route 66 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > I don't suppose it would hurt to ask, though, keeping the > 1766 -> 3066 legacy in mind. Not very essential, it stays BCP 47, and it will be replaced next year by 3066ter. The URL issue in -initial is worse, if IANA doesn't keep the old URL for the new registry numerous links will go to the old 3066-registry or break. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 07:56:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQked-0003oc-O7; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:56:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQkec-0003oX-1P for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:56:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA05936 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 07:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail13.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.118.29]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQkpV-0001z3-SG for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:08:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 42872 messnum 4215214 invoked from network[159.134.169.197/159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net]); 15 Oct 2005 11:56:23 -0000 Received: from 159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO egt.ie) (159.134.169.197) by mail13.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 42872) with SMTP; 15 Oct 2005 11:56:23 -0000 Message-ID: <4350EE83.C9884E13@egt.ie> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:56:51 +0100 From: Marion Gunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <434CA9B5.1B15B7D5@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051012143021.05755070@mail.afrac.org> <434E00D5.90643422@i18nguy.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20051013123653.04367180@mail.afrac.org> <434E935C.7584A5EB@egt.ie> <20051013190836.GA152@NYCMJCOWA2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id HAA05936 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Which just goes to prove what a very good thing it was that I sent out my second msg (lest more than just the usual - um - Johns failed to grasp the humour/spirit of my first). mg Scr=EDobh "John.Cowan": >=20 > Um, well, no. Not only is "z" correct for en-us, it is also correct fo= r > en-gb-oed. --=20 Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) 27 P=E1irc an Fh=E9ithlinn, Baile an=20 Bh=F3thair, Co. =C1tha Cliath, =C9ire. * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 08:02:25 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQkk5-0005Ql-Mx; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:02:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQkk4-0005Qd-5E for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:02:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06288 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:02:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail07.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.118.23]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQkux-00028L-Nc for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:13:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 31648 messnum 2890975 invoked from network[159.134.169.197/159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net]); 15 Oct 2005 12:02:11 -0000 Received: from 159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO egt.ie) (159.134.169.197) by mail07.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 31648) with SMTP; 15 Oct 2005 12:02:11 -0000 Message-ID: <4350EFE0.6B83CC0@egt.ie> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:02:40 +0100 From: Marion Gunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Debbie Garside Subject: Re: [Ltru] Conference on Language Standards References: <200510132116.j9DLG27L032578@smtp-los04.proxy.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA06288 Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Dear Debbie, I little expected my little in-joke to reveal such a difference between the two of us.:-) ISO's very own official EN and FR titles set the spelling rule for worldwide standards as Z in EN, S in FR. This we must accept and abide by. mg --=20 Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) 27 P=E1irc an Fh=E9ithlinn, Baile an=20 Bh=F3thair, Co. =C1tha Cliath, =C9ire. * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 08:16:56 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQky8-00021W-K4; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:16:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQky6-00020Q-Fk for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:16:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07220 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail05.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net ([159.134.118.21]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQl90-0002WO-IO for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:28:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 91714 messnum 3321006 invoked from network[159.134.169.197/159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net]); 15 Oct 2005 12:16:43 -0000 Received: from 159-134-169-197.as1.prp.dublin.eircom.net (HELO egt.ie) (159.134.169.197) by mail05.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 91714) with SMTP; 15 Oct 2005 12:16:43 -0000 Message-ID: <4350F347.5A01F200@egt.ie> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:17:11 +0100 From: Marion Gunn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] RE: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA07220 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Ted's is the only sensible approach. mg Scr=EDobh Ted Hardie: > Historically, IANA has moved registries around their site as needed. I= f > you include a URI, you force them to maintain that URI or redirects to > an appropriate URI. I would suggest a pointer to the IANA site instead= , > since that is likely more stable. >=20 > My two cents, > regards, > Ted Hardie --=20 Marion Gunn * EGTeo (Estab.1991) 27 P=E1irc an Fh=E9ithlinn, Baile an=20 Bh=F3thair, Co. =C1tha Cliath, =C9ire. * mgunn@egt.ie * eamonn@egt.ie * _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 08:52:02 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQlW6-0004Tf-Iq; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:52:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQlW5-0004Ta-F2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:52:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08395 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 08:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQlh0-0003D1-1R for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:03:19 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQlVq-0005Ty-IS; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 05:51:46 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051015124601.0355e4d0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:25:59 +0200 To: "LTRU Working Group" From: r&d afrac In-Reply-To: <002f01c5d140$85a01460$030aa8c0@DEWELL> References: <20051014220102.RDGT29651.edge4.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org> <002f01c5d140$85a01460$030aa8c0@DEWELL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [Ltru] "666 Marked meta-spam" (was Route 66) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 06:25 15/10/2005, Doug Ewell wrote: >Misha Wolf wrote: > > > Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? > >I understand that the RFC Editor is solely responsible for issuing RFC >numbers, and can pick any number imaginable. I don't suppose it would >hurt to ask, though, keeping the 1766 -> 3066 legacy in mind. Dear all, I cannot object "Route 66" is not a perfect name concept for the American Globalization document which, at perfect time, sides the IESG with the USG's positions to the eyes of the world. Genuine arrogance or total inconsciousness, such a thread does not help pretending the IETF is multicultural/multinational. Why not to add St John the Evangelist among the authors and to wait for the RFC 4666 number? It would be perfect mnemonic for the world to think of contents, protocols, Google searches leaking cultural/racial readers' characteristics as "4666 Marked". jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 14:25:02 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQqiM-0007JJ-L7; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQqiL-0007It-5m for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:25:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21965 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.67]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQqtG-0001kW-G6 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:36:19 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-136-95.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.136.95] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EQqiB-0005wO-00; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:24:51 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c5d1b6$38048300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20051014220102.RDGT29651.edge4.adelphia.net@megatron.ietf.org><002f01c5d140$85a01460$030aa8c0@DEWELL> <6.2.3.4.2.20051015124601.0355e4d0@mail.afrac.org> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:28:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Ltru] Public RFC 3934 warning to jfc X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Jefsey - I am very disappointed that, after recent attempts at constructive postings, you find it necessary to revert to such invective. You are hereby warned, in accordance with RFC 3934, that your posting privileges to the ltru working group mailing list may be revoked, for a period of up to 30 days, if your disruptive behaviour persists. Randy, ltru co-chair ----- Original Message ----- > From: "r&d afrac" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 4:25 AM > Subject: [Ltru] "666 Marked meta-spam" (was Route 66) > > At 06:25 15/10/2005, Doug Ewell wrote: > >Misha Wolf wrote: > > > > > Will we ask for a number ending in 66? If so, for which of the RFCs? > > > >I understand that the RFC Editor is solely responsible for issuing RFC > >numbers, and can pick any number imaginable. I don't suppose it would > >hurt to ask, though, keeping the 1766 -> 3066 legacy in mind. > > Dear all, > I cannot object "Route 66" is not a perfect name concept for the > American Globalization document which, at perfect time, sides the > IESG with the USG's positions to the eyes of the world. > > Genuine arrogance or total inconsciousness, such a thread does not > help pretending the IETF is multicultural/multinational. Why not to > add St John the Evangelist among the authors and to wait for the RFC > 4666 number? It would be perfect mnemonic for the world to think of > contents, protocols, Google searches leaking cultural/racial readers' > characteristics as "4666 Marked". > jfc > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 17:52:31 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQtx9-0005pZ-NN; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:52:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQtx5-0005pO-Fm for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:52:30 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29040 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQtva-0007Ui-Sp for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:50:54 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.108]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:50:54 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:50:54 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:40:31 +0200 Organization: Lines: 48 Message-ID: <4351774E.3D77@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Jukka K. Korpela wrote: > If only we could force them Let's say "convince", and an absolute URL to the real registry could do the trick. Ira posted some examples like RfC 3806: > we need to expect IANA to maintain such stability. The other > option is to find another registration authority. The latter option would require a lot of work: Update several RfCs so that registries could be hosted elsewhere. Or appoint somebody to maintain PURLs for the IETF if you trust that PURL lives longer than the direct URL. From that POV organizations like W3C or PURL are still "new" (OTOH OCLC was founded 1967, that's good enough for the IETF). > As Tim Berners-Lee puts it, "Cool URIs don't change" ACK. But IMHO it's not the main issue here. I'd gues that less than 1000 persons worldwide have ever heard of "3066bis". The relevant reality is defined by "Googlebot finds it" plus "Google shows it among the first 10 hits". An absolute URL in an RfC is a guarantee to spread the news, even in the worst case (= IANA picks a new URL for the new registry). Without that guarantee we can still hope that IANA picks the old URL for the new registry, because then links on existing pages continue to work for what we want. E.g. I have a link Okay, I'd update it when necessary, but numerous other folks won't, unless they check links and get a 404. Standards and regitries are among other things wishful thinking, if nobody knows them or everybody ignores them they are dead. "Search Engine Optimization" is very important. That's why I proposed to add to the section: It will sky rocket Addison's page rank, this page will have an URL to the new registry, Googlebot will find it, and that's how "shaping reality" works today (AFAIK + IMHO). Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 19:04:41 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQv4z-00032t-Ed; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:04:41 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQv4y-00032o-20 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:04:40 -0400 Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01646 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051015230406.WPKQ23334.mta13.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:04:06 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c5d1dc$aaacf880$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:03:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I had forgotten that draft-initial-05, which was released on September 24, already included the new language subtag "rup", which was approved as an ISO 639-2 code element on September 20. That means the only differences between draft-initial-05 and -06 are the new text at the beginning of Section 3, and a few hundred editorial date changes. I've posted an editor's copy of draft-06, and will submit it to the RFC Editor on Sunday if there are no valid objections. http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.html http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.xml -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 22:30 Subject: Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > > How about this: > > The IANA language subtag registry can be found at > > http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'Language Tags'. > > Very well, then: Section 3 will begin: > > "The remainder of this section specified the initial set of records for > the registry. This material was deleted on publication of this memo, to > avoid any potential confusion with the registry itself. The IANA > language subtag registry can be found at > http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under 'Language Tags'. > > "[RFC EDITOR NOTE: the remainder of this section is to be deleted upon > publication.] > > "The initial Language Subtag Registry follows..." > > The only other changes, as mentioned before, would be the new primary > language subtag and the mechanical date changes. Does anyone object > before I submit this as draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06? > > -- > Doug Ewell > Fullerton, California > http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 19:39:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvd0-0007IH-S8; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:39:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvcz-0007I6-F4 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:39:50 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA02694 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQvbc-0004XL-F7 for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:38:24 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.108]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:38:24 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:38:24 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:33:28 +0200 Organization: Lines: 36 Message-ID: <435191C8.4E99@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <003501c5d1dc$aaacf880$030aa8c0@DEWELL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > That means the only differences between draft-initial-05 and > -06 are the new text at the beginning of Section 3, and a few > hundred editorial date changes. Just for fun I tested the "unpaginated xml2rfc diff" approach again, and (minus those few hundred of new "Added" dates) got the result shown below. Bye, Frank 6,7c6,7 < Internet-Draft September 24, 2005 < Expires: March 28, 2006 --- > Internet-Draft October 16, 2005 > Expires: April 19, 2006 11c11 < draft-ietf-ltru-initial-05 --- > draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06 36c36 < This Internet-Draft will expire on March 28, 2006. --- > This Internet-Draft will expire on April 19, 2006. 213c213,215 < memo, to avoid any potential confusion with the registry itself. --- > memo, to avoid any potential confusion with the registry itself. The > IANA language subtag registry can be found at > under "Language Tags." 226c228 < File-Date: 2005-09-24 --- > File-Date: 2005-10-16 _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 19:48:23 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvlG-0001Ue-PI; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:48:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvlE-0001UW-Cu for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:48:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA02997 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQvwE-0007yQ-DV for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:59:43 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQvkz-0005W3-0a; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:48:05 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051016011735.053ba900@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:48:01 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 In-Reply-To: <4351774E.3D77@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <4351774E.3D77@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 23:40 15/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >Jukka K. Korpela wrote: > > we need to expect IANA to maintain such stability. The other > > option is to find another registration authority. > >The latter option would require a lot of work: Update several >RfCs so that registries could be hosted elsewhere. Or appoint >somebody to maintain PURLs for the IETF if you trust that PURL >lives longer than the direct URL. I thought the idea was to eventualy merge width CLDR? So the whole thing would be supported on the same machines by the same people? Every time I asked about the dissemination system and its size, usage, etc. I was responded "like Unicode"? >ACK. But IMHO it's not the main issue here. I'd gues that >less than 1000 persons worldwide have ever heard of "3066bis". Please do not say that after an IESG 3066bis LC. Since I would say that at least 500 knows it through my team .... and most of these people are concerned by the impact not much by the technical hosting details. Now, you would also imply that may be less than 100 ever read it? So that IETF would go by minority consensus? >The relevant reality is defined by "Googlebot finds it" plus >"Google shows it among the first 10 hits". An absolute URL >in an RfC is a guarantee to spread the news, even in the worst >case (= IANA picks a new URL for the new registry). > >Without that guarantee we can still hope that IANA picks the >old URL for the new registry, because then links on existing >pages continue to work for what we want. E.g. I have a link > This seems an odd discussion because "lang-tags" is a directory of 92 files. Not a registry of hundredth and then thousands of entries? >Okay, I'd update it when necessary, but numerous other folks >won't, unless they check links and get a 404. Standards and >regitries are among other things wishful thinking, if nobody >knows them or everybody ignores them they are dead. > >"Search Engine Optimization" is very important. That's why I >proposed to add to the >section: It will sky rocket Addison's page rank, this page >will have an URL to the new registry, Googlebot will find it, >and that's how "shaping reality" works today (AFAIK + IMHO). I am not sure of the interest of the inter-locale.com site in this? A better IANA site design would be more suitable. You seem to consider the langtags will not really be used and known? Surprising. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 19:58:31 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvv5-0004jo-68; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:58:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQvv3-0004jj-0w for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:58:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA03356 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQw64-0008B7-CG for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:09:52 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EQvv1-00081Q-Kp; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:58:27 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051016015644.0536ecd0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:56:44 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 23:40 15/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >Jukka K. Korpela wrote: > > we need to expect IANA to maintain such stability. The other > > option is to find another registration authority. > >The latter option would require a lot of work: Update several >RfCs so that registries could be hosted elsewhere. Or appoint >somebody to maintain PURLs for the IETF if you trust that PURL >lives longer than the direct URL. I thought the idea was to eventualy merge width CLDR? So the whole thing would be supported on the same machines by the same people? Every time I asked about the dissemination system and its size, usage, etc. I was responded "like Unicode"? >ACK. But IMHO it's not the main issue here. I'd gues that >less than 1000 persons worldwide have ever heard of "3066bis". Please do not say that after an IESG 3066bis LC. Since I would say that at least 500 knows it through my team .... and most of these people are concerned by the impact not much by the technical hosting details. Now, you would also imply that may be less than 100 ever read it? So that IETF would go by minority consensus? >The relevant reality is defined by "Googlebot finds it" plus >"Google shows it among the first 10 hits". An absolute URL >in an RfC is a guarantee to spread the news, even in the worst >case (= IANA picks a new URL for the new registry). > >Without that guarantee we can still hope that IANA picks the >old URL for the new registry, because then links on existing >pages continue to work for what we want. E.g. I have a link > This seems an odd discussion because "lang-tags" is a directory of 92 files. Not a registry of hundredth and then thousands of entries? >Okay, I'd update it when necessary, but numerous other folks >won't, unless they check links and get a 404. Standards and >regitries are among other things wishful thinking, if nobody >knows them or everybody ignores them they are dead. > >"Search Engine Optimization" is very important. That's why I >proposed to add to the >section: It will sky rocket Addison's page rank, this page >will have an URL to the new registry, Googlebot will find it, >and that's how "shaping reality" works today (AFAIK + IMHO). I am not sure of the interest of the inter-locale.com site in this? A better IANA site design would be more suitable. You seem to consider the langtags will not really be used and known? Surprising. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Oct 15 21:20:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQxC9-0003i5-4d; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:20:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQxC8-0003gg-2T for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:20:12 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05456 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EQxB0-0007md-0n for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:19:02 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.108]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:19:02 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:19:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:13:19 +0200 Organization: Lines: 68 Message-ID: <4351A92E.35FD@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <4351774E.3D77@xyzzy.claranet.de> <6.2.3.4.2.20051016011735.053ba900@mail.afrac.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-108.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org r&d afrac wrote: > I thought the idea was to eventualy merge width CLDR? Why do you think that ? I'm just curious. It's less than a week that I pulled another public en-UK stunt instead of en-GB in a Usenet newsgroup... > Every time I asked about the dissemination system and its > size, usage, etc. I was responded "like Unicode"? http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt 768 KB Yes, that's about twice (?) the size I'd expect for a 3066ter registry, For 3066bis it's less than 80 KB. If you still don't believe it let's wait until it's created, you can then verify that it's really hosted by IANA and less than 80 KB. >> I'd gues that less than 1000 persons worldwide have ever >> heard of "3066bis". > Please do not say that after an IESG 3066bis LC. => John reviewed the drafts. Bruce explained why he didn't. Probably some others also looked at it, but didn't bother to comment. > I would say that at least 500 knows it through my team Those folks also didn't bother to comment it (assuming that they exist, I don't share that opinion) > Now, you would also imply that may be less than 100 ever > read it? Yes. > So that IETF would go by minority consensus? No. But those are TAObis / PECSI / general topics. I'm still trying to find out how it's supposed to work - especially if there are conflicts, or if somebody only claims that there's a problem. >> E.g. I have a link > This seems an odd discussion because "lang-tags" is a > directory of 92 files. Not a registry of hundredth and then > thousands of entries? It was only an _example_ for a public link to the relevant part (my personal POV) of the old registry = "stuff I won't find in the source standards". I could as well link to a single file or to the HTML view of this directory. For a fun effect try: http://purl.net/xyzzy/-AWFID/inlinktext:%2522language%2520tags%2522 > You seem to consider the langtags will not really be used > and known? What I consider is that it may take years until the last user of language tags will note that RfC 3066 has been replaced. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 16 00:42:25 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ER0Lp-0000O7-AQ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:42:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ER0Ln-0000O2-Ir for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:42:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA10647 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ER0Wq-00047t-BO for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:53:48 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1ER0Lg-00022V-JI; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:42:16 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051016042452.0424d840@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 06:42:12 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 In-Reply-To: <4351A92E.35FD@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <4351774E.3D77@xyzzy.claranet.de> <6.2.3.4.2.20051016011735.053ba900@mail.afrac.org> <4351A92E.35FD@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ded6070f7eed56e10c4f4d0d5043d9c7 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Dear Frank, Interesting points, we would have discussed and hopefully addressed had we studied in common our Charter and made a clean sheet work. At 03:13 16/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >r&d afrac wrote: > > I thought the idea was to eventualy merge width CLDR? > >Why do you think that ? I'm just curious. It's less than >a week that I pulled another public en-UK stunt instead of >en-GB in a Usenet newsgroup... I just read the charter, looked at who are the authors, read the list of the Unicode officers and members, joined Unicode, discussed with people from their organisations, been contacted by some. Been inquired by industry people who are no members. By concerned Govs. Discussions inside ISO and other SSDOs. Exposure after the second LC helped. The point is not what people plan. But what the problems are and what are the possible solutions and budgets. > > Every time I asked about the dissemination system and its > > size, usage, etc. I was responded "like Unicode"? > >http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/NamesList.txt 768 KB I am afraid you missed the point. Please access the CLDR project. - http://www.unicode.org/cldr/ - Directed by Mark Davis - quoted in our charter - none of the simple questions asked on this list about their IPRs was responded - the determination to exclusive - any IETF only project would have rejoiced at "0-". >Yes, that's about twice (?) the size I'd expect for a 3066ter >registry, For 3066bis it's less than 80 KB. If you still >don't believe it let's wait until it's created, you can then >verify that it's really hosted by IANA and less than 80 KB. RFC 3066bis is of low interest irt. size. The size and use for "IANA" management is what they call RFC 3066 ter, quater, etc. A realistic forecast is between Unicode or the like and the DRS (an ISO 11179 conformant Distributed Registry System). > >> I'd gues that less than 1000 persons worldwide have ever > >> heard of "3066bis". > > > Please do not say that after an IESG 3066bis LC. > >=> John reviewed the drafts. Bruce explained why he didn't. >Probably some others also looked at it, but didn't bother >to comment. Thank you for this testimony. I agree. I suppose that a few tried but find it quite obscure (no definition, etc.) and abandonned. > > I would say that at least 500 knows it through my team > >Those folks also didn't bother to comment it (assuming that >they exist, I don't share that opinion) I am not sure what "assuming that they exist, I don't share that opinion" may mean? Which opinion. I am not interested in commenting on RFC 306 bis, just in being able to use it. To remind our need was my job. You are the experts. We are the users. I am interested in sharing only if I see you do not deliver what I need. I will recall two chanels I quoted (but I run/share in some others): - AFRAC which works on the way to make every common information avalaible to users - so is interested in the technical quality of the deliverables; AFRAC is a small French R&D team with connections to various lists such as ISOC, Eurolinc, etc. - NICSO which is a users / govs / small ccTLDs / community oriented think-tank. It broadcast specialised notes. Obviously they are not read by all the destinees. I think a global awareness of 500 (people knowing there is a major problem, where and I will keep them posted) is conservative. But this people are not interested in a "possible". Now the document is approved, it enters into their field as a political move or as a legal violation. Politics are now interested. Lawyers will be interested when it starts being enacted. > > Now, you would also imply that may be less than 100 ever > > read it? > >Yes. Thank you for this evaluation. > > So that IETF would go by minority consensus? > >No. But those are TAObis / PECSI / general topics. I'm still >trying to find out how it's supposed to work - especially if >there are conflicts, or if somebody only claims that there's >a problem. This is a good question. I was enrolled in the principle of a WG in giving conditions which were not respected. A charter came which was not respected. There is no way to really block the work of a WG even if you think it detrimental to the IETF. This is IMHO the main problem. The only way left is I think the one I was able to follow: - to make sure the document is the least harming one in the case it would be enforced. But you saw what it means. - to try to work out an external consensus on a least confusing maket solution - to prepare and engage the legal, market, political mechanic to block the error to try to enforce a practical consensus. The problem is, if there is only one person, there may be an error, but at least there will not be confusion over a debate. The problem - as I experimented it - is when because there is only one (or a very limited kernel of) person who think paying attention to the IETF is worth the effort. If the problem is not that important for external people, we have a standardisation confusion. If there is a conflict and if it is vital to the external people or if they are no interested in other IETF issues, their only solution they have is to kill the IETF. I hope that now the IESG has approved the document that danger is over. But it has been more than real. I never hidden it. And this is very easy now. This is why PECSI is important. > >> E.g. I have a link > > > This seems an odd discussion because "lang-tags" is a > > directory of 92 files. Not a registry of hundredth and then > > thousands of entries? > >It was only an _example_ for a public link to the relevant part >(my personal POV) of the old registry = "stuff I won't find in >the source standards". I could as well link to a single file > or to the HTML >view of >this directory. > >For a fun effect try: >http://purl.net/xyzzy/-AWFID/inlinktext:%2522language%2520tags%2522 This is good. But this is a searcher page (good idea). What we need is an operational registry supporting real applications/usages. > > You seem to consider the langtags will not really be used > > and known? > >What I consider is that it may take years until the last user >of language tags will note that RfC 3066 has been replaced. I am not as pessimitic as you are. The work achieved is of interest for the "globalization" (end to end ASCII English internationalization + localisation). I understand that CLDR is progressing well. Let assume it is in line with their Q2.2006. Globalization will then have most of its tools since they keep the libraries. I suppose the WSIS, meetings like Berlin, the UNICODE meeting will give it some momentum. Then the meta-spam issue will make it known. So a solution will have to be proposed by mid-next year. That solution is the "0-/1-" userspaces and ISO 11179 conformance. ISO 639-3/6 will have been published. This gives a good schedule and permits to work. The point now is for us to publish the langroot, to work on the DRS servers logic and better document and support "globalisation". For the WG-ltru it is to finish the work over filtering. But it has to do it seriously in caring about the legal implications. The hope is the Internet Governance obliges the IETF solution to be the default of the common one the soonest to reduce costs, confusion and balkanisation as in IDNA. The WG-ltru also has to do it in avoiding mad threads like the "route 66" one. The approval of the IESG protects now the IETF against DoS (I hope) but will put more focus on this mailing list by more people. Take care. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 16 11:26:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERAPS-000406-Fs; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:26:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERAPP-0003zu-4L; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:26:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06510; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERAaG-0005Ql-Hv; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:38:03 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:26:14 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:26:14 -0700 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5D265.F1C4982B" Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Thread-Index: AcXSZe5qdGMnArKxQR+jM0wubx7fnQ== From: "Addison Phillips" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2005 15:26:14.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1E6ECE0:01C5D265] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e7a0b2d0414862fb7226b16c9f71e1bd Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: 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biBpcyBjdXJyZW50bHkgcHJvdmlkZWQgYnkgdGhlCiAgIEludGVybmV0IFNvY2lldHkuCgoKCgpQ aGlsbGlwcyAmIERhdmlzICAgICAgICAgRXhwaXJlcyBBcHJpbCAxNywgMjAwNiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICBbUGFnZSA2Ml0KDAo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5D265.F1C4982B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5D265.F1C4982B-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 17 03:26:32 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERPOC-0001xd-4D; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:26:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERPOA-0001xV-2g for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:26:30 -0400 Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21983 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051017072552.BNSE23334.mta13.adelphia.net@DEWELL>; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:25:52 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c5d2eb$dbf8f280$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:24:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01C5D2B1.2EE178E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: [Ltru] Submission: LTRU initial-registry draft-06 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C5D2B1.2EE178E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Editor, Attached please find the seventh draft of the LTRU initial-registry document, "draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06", in text format. This draft was generated from XML source using xml2rfc, and has been scanned with idnits. The XML source is available at http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.xml, or via e-mail on request. Best regards, -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C5D2B1.2EE178E0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= LTRU D. Ewell, Ed.=0A= Internet-Draft October 16, 2005=0A= Expires: April 19, 2006=0A= =0A= =0A= Initial Language Subtag Registry=0A= draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06=0A= =0A= Status of this Memo=0A= =0A= By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any=0A= applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware=0A= have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes=0A= aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.=0A= =0A= Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering=0A= Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that=0A= other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-=0A= Drafts.=0A= =0A= Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months=0A= and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any=0A= time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference=0A= material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."=0A= =0A= The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at=0A= http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.=0A= =0A= The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at=0A= http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.=0A= =0A= This Internet-Draft will expire on April 19, 2006.=0A= =0A= Copyright Notice=0A= =0A= Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005).=0A= =0A= Abstract=0A= =0A= This memo defines the initial contents of the IANA Language Subtag=0A= Registry for use in forming tags for the identification of languages.=0A= Since the contents of this memo only serve as a starting point for=0A= the registry, it is inappropriate to use this memo in lieu of the=0A= registry.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 1]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Table of Contents=0A= =0A= 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3=0A= 2. Initialization of the Registry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4=0A= 3. Initial Registry Contents . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7=0A= 4. Omitted Code Elements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113=0A= 5. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 114=0A= 6. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115=0A= 7. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116=0A= 7.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116=0A= 7.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116=0A= Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117=0A= Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . 118=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 2]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 1. Introduction=0A= =0A= [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] provides for a Language Subtag Registry and=0A= describes its format. This memo defines the initial contents of the=0A= IANA Language Subtag Registry, using the criteria described in=0A= Section 2.=0A= =0A= The Language Subtag Registry is formatted in a modified record-jar=0A= text format, as described in [record-jar]. The specific format of=0A= the registry, and the definition and intended purpose of each of the=0A= fields, are described in [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry].=0A= =0A= The registry is expected to change over time, as new subtags are=0A= registered and existing subtags are modified or deprecated. The=0A= process of updating the registry is described in Section 3 of=0A= [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry]. This memo does not define the permanent=0A= contents of the registry and should not be represented as doing so.=0A= =0A= Many of the subtags defined in this registry are based on code=0A= elements defined in [ISO639-1], [ISO639-2], [ISO15924], [ISO3166-1],=0A= and [UN_M.49]. This registry is not a mirror of the code lists=0A= defined by these standards, and should not be used as one.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 3]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 2. Initialization of the Registry=0A= =0A= Section 3.7 of [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] requires that the LTRU=0A= working group create an initial version of the Language Subtag=0A= Registry and populate it with the initial set of subtags. This=0A= involves converting the entries from the existing IANA language tag=0A= registry defined by [RFC3066] to the new format, as well as defining=0A= valid subtags from various source standards. This section describes=0A= the process that was used to create the initial registry entries.=0A= =0A= The initial set of records was based on the following standards:=0A= [ISO639-1], [ISO639-2], [ISO15924], and [ISO3166-1]. The following=0A= criteria were used to select and format the records of the subtags=0A= included in the initial Language Subtag Registry (hereafter "ILSR"):=0A= =0A= 1. For each source standard, the date of the standard referenced=0A= in [RFC1766] was selected as the starting date. Code elements=0A= that were valid on that date in the selected standard were added=0A= to the ILSR. Code elements that were previously assigned, but=0A= which were vacated or withdrawn before that date, were not added=0A= to the ILSR.=0A= =0A= 2. For each successive change to the standard, any additional=0A= assignments up to the date of the adoption of [I-D.ietf-ltru-=0A= registry] were added to the ILSR. Values that have been withdrawn=0A= are marked as deprecated, but not removed. Changes in meaning or=0A= assignment of a subtag were permitted during this process (for=0A= example, the [ISO3166-1] code element 'CS' was originally assigned=0A= to Czechoslovakia and is now assigned to Serbia and Montenegro).=0A= =0A= Code elements from [UN_M.49] were also included in the ILSR using the=0A= criteria above, with the following additional rules:=0A= =0A= 3. UN numeric code elements assigned to "macro-geographical=0A= (continental)" regions as of the date of adoption of [I-D.ietf-=0A= ltru-registry] were added to the ILSR and thereby made valid for=0A= use in language tags.=0A= =0A= 4. The UN numeric code elements for "economic groupings" or=0A= "other groupings," and the alphanumeric code elements in Appendix=0A= X of the UN document, were not added to the ILSR.=0A= =0A= 5. The UN numeric code elements for countries or areas not=0A= associated with an assigned [ISO3166-1] alpha-2 code element were=0A= not added to the ILSR. These values are listed in Section 4 and=0A= may be requested for registration by individuals using the process=0A= defined in [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] and according to the rules=0A= described therein. Listing of these code elements in this section=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 4]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= is not a guarantee of future registration.=0A= =0A= 6. Code elements that were withdrawn, vacated, or deprecated from=0A= [UN_M.49] as of the date of adoption of [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry]=0A= were not added to the ILSR.=0A= =0A= Using the initial set of subtags described above, the tags in the=0A= [RFC3066] registry were evaluated as follows:=0A= =0A= 7. Tags in the [RFC3066] registry that were not deprecated,=0A= consisted entirely of subtags already in this document, and have=0A= the correct form and format for tags defined by [I-D.ietf-ltru-=0A= registry] were converted to records of type "redundant" in the=0A= ILSR. For example, "zh-Hant" is now defined by [I-D.ietf-ltru-=0A= registry] because 'zh' is an [ISO639-1] code element and 'Hant' is=0A= an [ISO15924] code element, and both are defined as subtags in the=0A= ILSR.=0A= =0A= 8. Tags in the [RFC3066] registry that contained one or more=0A= subtags that either did not match the valid registration pattern=0A= or were not otherwise defined by [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] were=0A= converted to corresponding records of type "grandfathered" in the=0A= ILSR. These records cannot become type "redundant" except by=0A= revision of [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry], but may have a "Deprecated"=0A= and "Preferred-Value" field added to them if a subsequent subtag=0A= assignment or combination of assignments renders the tag obsolete.=0A= =0A= 9. Tags in the [RFC3066] registry that had a notation that they=0A= were deprecated were converted to records of type "grandfathered"=0A= in the ILSR. The record for the grandfathered entry contains a=0A= "Deprecated" field with the most appropriate date that can be=0A= determined for when the [RFC3066] record was deprecated. The=0A= "Comments" field may optionally contain a reason for the=0A= deprecation. The "Preferred-Value" field contains a tag that=0A= replaces the value. For example, the [RFC3066] tag "art-lojban"=0A= is deprecated and thus appears as a grandfathered tag in the ILSR.=0A= Its "Deprecated" field contains the deprecation date (in this case=0A= "2003-09-02") and the "Preferred-Value" field the value "jbo".=0A= =0A= 10. The remaining tags in the [RFC3066] registry are not=0A= deprecated and have a format consistent with language tags as=0A= defined by [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] but contain subtags which are=0A= not defined in the ILSR. These subtags are eligible for=0A= registration as variants. The ILSR contains appropriate variant=0A= records for the following list of subtags, and the registered=0A= [RFC3066] tags containing these subtags were entered into the ILSR=0A= as type "redundant":=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 5]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 1901 (use with Prefix: de)=0A= =0A= 1996 (use with Prefix: de)=0A= =0A= nedis (use with Prefix: sl)=0A= =0A= rozaj (use with Prefix: sl)=0A= =0A= 11. All remaining [RFC3066] registered tags were converted to=0A= records of type "grandfathered" in the ILSR. Interested parties=0A= may use the registration process in [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry] to=0A= attempt to register the variant subtags not already present in the=0A= Language Subtag Registry. If all of the subtags in the original=0A= tag become fully defined by the resulting registrations, then the=0A= original tag is superseded. Such tags will have their record=0A= changed from type "grandfathered" to type "redundant" in the=0A= registry. Note that previous approval of a tag under [RFC3066] is=0A= not a guarantee of approval of a variant subtag under [I-D.ietf-=0A= ltru-registry]. The existing [RFC3066] tag maintains its=0A= validity, but the original reason for its registration might have=0A= become obsolete.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 6]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 3. Initial Registry Contents=0A= =0A= The remainder of this section specified the initial set of records=0A= for the registry. This material was deleted on publication of this=0A= memo, to avoid any potential confusion with the registry itself. The=0A= IANA language subtag registry can be found at=0A= under "Language Tags."=0A= =0A= [RFC EDITOR NOTE: the remainder of this section is to be deleted upon=0A= publication.]=0A= =0A= The initial Language Subtag Registry follows. The registry begins=0A= with the line that starts with the string "File-Date" and continues=0A= to the end of this section. Headers, footers, line breaks, and other=0A= vertical whitespace introduced by the RFC process are not=0A= significant. Leading horizontal whitespace relative to the "File-=0A= Date" line indicates a continued line in the record-jar format, and=0A= must not be deleted.=0A= =0A= File-Date: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: aa=0A= Description: Afar=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ab=0A= Description: Abkhazian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ae=0A= Description: Avestan=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: af=0A= Description: Afrikaans=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ak=0A= Description: Akan=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 7]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: am=0A= Description: Amharic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Ethi=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: an=0A= Description: Aragonese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ar=0A= Description: Arabic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Arab=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: as=0A= Description: Assamese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Beng=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: av=0A= Description: Avaric=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ay=0A= Description: Aymara=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: az=0A= Description: Azerbaijani=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ba=0A= Description: Bashkir=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: be=0A= Description: Belarusian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 8]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bg=0A= Description: Bulgarian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bh=0A= Description: Bihari=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bi=0A= Description: Bislama=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bm=0A= Description: Bambara=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bn=0A= Description: Bengali=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Beng=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bo=0A= Description: Tibetan=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: br=0A= Description: Breton=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: bs=0A= Description: Bosnian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ca=0A= Description: Catalan=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 9]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Valencian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ce=0A= Description: Chechen=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ch=0A= Description: Chamorro=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: co=0A= Description: Corsican=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: cr=0A= Description: Cree=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: cs=0A= Description: Czech=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: cu=0A= Description: Church Slavic=0A= Description: Old Slavonic=0A= Description: Church Slavonic=0A= Description: Old Bulgarian=0A= Description: Old Church Slavonic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: cv=0A= Description: Chuvash=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: cy=0A= Description: Welsh=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 10]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: da=0A= Description: Danish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: de=0A= Description: German=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: dv=0A= Description: Divehi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Thaa=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: dz=0A= Description: Dzongkha=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Tibt=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ee=0A= Description: Ewe=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: el=0A= Description: Greek, Modern (1453-)=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Grek=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: en=0A= Description: English=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: eo=0A= Description: Esperanto=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 11]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: es=0A= Description: Spanish=0A= Description: Castilian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: et=0A= Description: Estonian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: eu=0A= Description: Basque=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fa=0A= Description: Persian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Arab=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ff=0A= Description: Fulah=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fi=0A= Description: Finnish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fj=0A= Description: Fijian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fo=0A= Description: Faroese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 12]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fr=0A= Description: French=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: fy=0A= Description: Frisian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ga=0A= Description: Irish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: gd=0A= Description: Gaelic=0A= Description: Scottish Gaelic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: gl=0A= Description: Galician=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: gn=0A= Description: Guarani=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: gu=0A= Description: Gujarati=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Gujr=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: gv=0A= Description: Manx=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 13]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ha=0A= Description: Hausa=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: he=0A= Description: Hebrew=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Hebr=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: hi=0A= Description: Hindi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Deva=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ho=0A= Description: Hiri Motu=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: hr=0A= Description: Croatian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ht=0A= Description: Haitian=0A= Description: Haitian Creole=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: hu=0A= Description: Hungarian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: hy=0A= Description: Armenian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Armn=0A= %%=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 14]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: hz=0A= Description: Herero=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ia=0A= Description: Interlingua (International Auxiliary Language=0A= Association)=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: id=0A= Description: Indonesian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ie=0A= Description: Interlingue=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ig=0A= Description: Igbo=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ii=0A= Description: Sichuan Yi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ik=0A= Description: Inupiaq=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: in=0A= Description: Indonesian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Preferred-Value: id=0A= Deprecated: 1989-01-01=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: io=0A= Description: Ido=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 15]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: is=0A= Description: Icelandic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: it=0A= Description: Italian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: iu=0A= Description: Inuktitut=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: iw=0A= Description: Hebrew=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Preferred-Value: he=0A= Deprecated: 1989-01-01=0A= Suppress-Script: Hebr=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ja=0A= Description: Japanese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ji=0A= Description: Yiddish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Preferred-Value: yi=0A= Deprecated: 1989-01-01=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: jv=0A= Description: Javanese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: jw=0A= Description: Javanese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 16]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Preferred-Value: jv=0A= Deprecated: 2001-08-13=0A= Comments: published by error in Table 1 of ISO 639:1988=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ka=0A= Description: Georgian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Geor=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kg=0A= Description: Kongo=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ki=0A= Description: Kikuyu=0A= Description: Gikuyu=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kj=0A= Description: Kuanyama=0A= Description: Kwanyama=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kk=0A= Description: Kazakh=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kl=0A= Description: Kalaallisut=0A= Description: Greenlandic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: km=0A= Description: Khmer=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Khmr=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kn=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 17]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Kannada=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Knda=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ko=0A= Description: Korean=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kr=0A= Description: Kanuri=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ks=0A= Description: Kashmiri=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ku=0A= Description: Kurdish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kv=0A= Description: Komi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: kw=0A= Description: Cornish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ky=0A= Description: Kirghiz=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: la=0A= Description: Latin=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lb=0A= Description: Luxembourgish=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 18]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Letzeburgesch=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lg=0A= Description: Ganda=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: li=0A= Description: Limburgan=0A= Description: Limburger=0A= Description: Limburgish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ln=0A= Description: Lingala=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lo=0A= Description: Lao=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Laoo=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lt=0A= Description: Lithuanian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lu=0A= Description: Luba-Katanga=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: lv=0A= Description: Latvian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mg=0A= Description: Malagasy=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 19]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mh=0A= Description: Marshallese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mi=0A= Description: Maori=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mk=0A= Description: Macedonian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ml=0A= Description: Malayalam=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Mlym=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mn=0A= Description: Mongolian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mo=0A= Description: Moldavian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mr=0A= Description: Marathi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Deva=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ms=0A= Description: Malay=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 20]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: mt=0A= Description: Maltese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: my=0A= Description: Burmese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Mymr=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: na=0A= Description: Nauru=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nb=0A= Description: Norwegian Bokmål=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nd=0A= Description: Ndebele, North=0A= Description: North Ndebele=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ne=0A= Description: Nepali=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Deva=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ng=0A= Description: Ndonga=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nl=0A= Description: Dutch=0A= Description: Flemish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 21]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nn=0A= Description: Norwegian Nynorsk=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: no=0A= Description: Norwegian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nr=0A= Description: Ndebele, South=0A= Description: South Ndebele=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: nv=0A= Description: Navajo=0A= Description: Navaho=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ny=0A= Description: Chichewa=0A= Description: Chewa=0A= Description: Nyanja=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: oc=0A= Description: Occitan (post 1500)=0A= Description: Provençal=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: oj=0A= Description: Ojibwa=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: om=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 22]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Oromo=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: or=0A= Description: Oriya=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Orya=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: os=0A= Description: Ossetian=0A= Description: Ossetic=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: pa=0A= Description: Panjabi=0A= Description: Punjabi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Guru=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: pi=0A= Description: Pali=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: pl=0A= Description: Polish=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ps=0A= Description: Pushto=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Arab=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: pt=0A= Description: Portuguese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: qu=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 23]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Quechua=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: rm=0A= Description: Raeto-Romance=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: rn=0A= Description: Rundi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ro=0A= Description: Romanian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: ru=0A= Description: Russian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Cyrl=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: rw=0A= Description: Kinyarwanda=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sa=0A= Description: Sanskrit=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sc=0A= Description: Sardinian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sd=0A= Description: Sindhi=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 24]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: se=0A= Description: Northern Sami=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sg=0A= Description: Sango=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sh=0A= Description: Serbo-Croatian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Deprecated: 2000-02-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: si=0A= Description: Sinhala=0A= Description: Sinhalese=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Sinh=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sk=0A= Description: Slovak=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sl=0A= Description: Slovenian=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sm=0A= Description: Samoan=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sn=0A= Description: Shona=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 25]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Subtag: so=0A= Description: Somali=0A= Added: 2005-10-16=0A= Suppress-Script: Latn=0A= %%=0A= Type: language=0A= Subtag: sq=0A= 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grandfathered=0A= Tag: en-GB-oed=0A= Description: English, Oxford English Dictionary spelling=0A= Added: 2003-07-09=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: en-scouse=0A= Description: Scouse=0A= Added: 2000-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 102]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Tag: i-ami=0A= Description: 'Amis=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-bnn=0A= Description: Bunun=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-default=0A= Description: Default Language=0A= Added: 1998-03-10=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-enochian=0A= Description: Enochian=0A= Added: 2002-07-03=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-hak=0A= Description: Hakka=0A= Added: 1999-01-31=0A= Preferred-Value: zh-hakka=0A= Deprecated: 2000-01-10=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-klingon=0A= Description: Klingon=0A= Added: 1999-05-26=0A= Preferred-Value: tlh=0A= Deprecated: 2004-02-24=0A= Comments: replaced by ISO code tlh=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-lux=0A= Description: Luxembourgish=0A= Added: 1997-09-19=0A= Preferred-Value: lb=0A= Deprecated: 1998-09-09=0A= Comments: replaced by ISO code lb=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-mingo=0A= Description: Mingo=0A= Added: 1997-09-19=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 103]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Tag: i-navajo=0A= Description: Navajo=0A= Added: 1997-09-19=0A= Preferred-Value: nv=0A= Deprecated: 2000-02-18=0A= Comments: replaced by ISO code nv=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-pwn=0A= Description: Paiwan=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-tao=0A= Description: Tao=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-tay=0A= Description: Tayal=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: i-tsu=0A= Description: Tsou=0A= Added: 1999-05-25=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: no-bok=0A= Description: Norwegian Bokmal=0A= Added: 1995-08-23=0A= Preferred-Value: nb=0A= Deprecated: 2000-02-18=0A= Comments: replaced by ISO code nb=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: no-nyn=0A= Description: Norwegian Nynorsk=0A= Added: 1995-08-23=0A= Preferred-Value: nn=0A= Deprecated: 2000-02-18=0A= Comments: replaced by ISO code nn=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: sgn-BE-fr=0A= Description: Belgian-French Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 104]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: sgn-BE-nl=0A= Description: Belgian-Flemish Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: sgn-CH-de=0A= Description: Swiss German Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-cmn=0A= Description: Mandarin Chinese=0A= Added: 2005-07-15=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-cmn-Hans=0A= Description: Mandarin Chinese (Simplified)=0A= Added: 2005-07-15=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-cmn-Hant=0A= Description: Mandarin Chinese (Traditional)=0A= Added: 2005-07-15=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-gan=0A= Description: Kan or Gan=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-guoyu=0A= Description: Mandarin or Standard Chinese=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= Preferred-Value: zh-cmn=0A= Deprecated: 2005-07-15=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-hakka=0A= Description: Hakka=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-min=0A= Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 105]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Tag: zh-min-nan=0A= Description: Minnan, Hokkien, Amoy, Taiwanese, Southern Min, Southern=0A= Fujian, Hoklo, Southern Fukien, Ho-lo=0A= Added: 2001-03-26=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-wuu=0A= Description: Shanghaiese or Wu=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-xiang=0A= Description: Xiang or Hunanese=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: grandfathered=0A= Tag: zh-yue=0A= Description: Cantonese=0A= Added: 1999-12-18=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: az-Arab=0A= Description: Azerbaijani in Arabic script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: az-Cyrl=0A= Description: Azerbaijani in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: az-Latn=0A= Description: Azerbaijani in Latin script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: be-Latn=0A= Description: Belarusian in Latin script=0A= Added: 2005-01-06=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: bs-Cyrl=0A= Description: Bosnian in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: bs-Latn=0A= Description: Bosnian in Latin script=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 106]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-1901=0A= Description: German, traditional orthography=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-1996=0A= Description: German, orthography of 1996=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-AT-1901=0A= Description: German, Austrian variant, traditional orthography=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-AT-1996=0A= Description: German, Austrian variant, orthography of 1996=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-CH-1901=0A= Description: German, Swiss variant, traditional orthography=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-CH-1996=0A= Description: German, Swiss variant, orthography of 1996=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-DE-1901=0A= Description: German, German variant, traditional orthography=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: de-DE-1996=0A= Description: German, German variant, orthography of 1996=0A= Added: 2001-07-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: es-419=0A= Description: Latin American Spanish=0A= Added: 2005-07-15=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 107]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Tag: iu-Cans=0A= Description: Inuktitut in Canadian Aboriginal Syllabic script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: iu-Latn=0A= Description: Inuktitut in Latin script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: mn-Cyrl=0A= Description: Mongolian in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: mn-Mong=0A= Description: Mongolian in Mongolian script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-BR=0A= Description: Brazilian Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-CO=0A= Description: Colombian Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-DE=0A= Description: German Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-DK=0A= Description: Danish Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-ES=0A= Description: Spanish Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-FR=0A= Description: French Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 108]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-GB=0A= Description: British Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-03-02=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-GR=0A= Description: Greek Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-IE=0A= Description: Irish Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-03-02=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-IT=0A= Description: Italian Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-JP=0A= Description: Japanese Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-MX=0A= Description: Mexican Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-NI=0A= Description: Nicaraguan Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-03-02=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-NL=0A= Description: Dutch Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-NO=0A= Description: Norwegian Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-PT=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 109]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Description: Portuguese Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-SE=0A= Description: Swedish Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-US=0A= Description: American Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-03-02=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sgn-ZA=0A= Description: South African Sign Language=0A= Added: 2001-11-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sl-nedis=0A= Description: Natisone dialect, Nadiza dialect=0A= Added: 2004-06-01=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sl-rozaj=0A= Description: Resian, Resianic, Rezijan=0A= Added: 2003-10-09=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sr-Cyrl=0A= Description: Serbian in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: sr-Latn=0A= Description: Serbian in Latin script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: tg-Arab=0A= Description: Tajik in Arabic script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: tg-Cyrl=0A= Description: Tajik in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2005-02-17=0A= %%=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 110]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: uz-Cyrl=0A= Description: Uzbek in Cyrillic script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: uz-Latn=0A= Description: Uzbek in Latin script=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: yi-latn=0A= Description: Yiddish, in Latin script=0A= Added: 2003-01-07=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans=0A= Description: simplified Chinese=0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans-CN=0A= Description: PRC Mainland Chinese in simplified script=0A= Added: 2005-04-13=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans-HK=0A= Description: Hong Kong Chinese in simplified script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans-MO=0A= Description: Macao Chinese in simplified script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans-SG=0A= Description: Singapore Chinese in simplified script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hans-TW=0A= Description: Taiwan Chinese in simplified script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant=0A= Description: traditional Chinese=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 111]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Added: 2003-05-30=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant-CN=0A= Description: PRC Mainland Chinese in traditional script=0A= Added: 2005-04-13=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant-HK=0A= Description: Hong Kong Chinese in traditional script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant-MO=0A= Description: Macao Chinese in traditional script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant-SG=0A= Description: Singapore Chinese in traditional script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= %%=0A= Type: redundant=0A= Tag: zh-Hant-TW=0A= Description: Taiwan Chinese in traditional script=0A= Added: 2005-04-11=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 112]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 4. Omitted Code Elements=0A= =0A= The following code elements from [UN_M.49] were not associated with=0A= [ISO3166-1] alpha-2 code elements. Consequently, they were not=0A= assigned as subtags in the initial Language Subtag Registry, but are=0A= valid candidates for registration as region subtags, using the=0A= process in [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry]:=0A= =0A= 830 Channel Islands=0A= =0A= 831 Guernsey=0A= =0A= 832 Jersey=0A= =0A= 833 Isle of Man=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 113]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 5. Security Considerations=0A= =0A= This document specifies the initial contents to be used by IANA in=0A= populating the Language Subtag Registry. For security considerations=0A= relevant to that registry and the use of language tags, see=0A= [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry].=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 114]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 6. IANA Considerations=0A= =0A= This document provides the initial content for the Language Subtag=0A= Registry to be maintained by IANA. For details on the procedures for=0A= the format and ongoing maintenance of this registry, see [I-D.ietf-=0A= ltru-registry].=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 115]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= 7. References=0A= =0A= 7.1. Normative References=0A= =0A= [I-D.ietf-ltru-registry]=0A= Phillips, A., Ed. and M. Davis, Ed., "Tags for Identifying=0A= Languages", September 2005.=0A= =0A= 7.2. Informative References=0A= =0A= [ISO15924]=0A= International Organization for Standardization, "ISO=0A= 15924:2004. Information and documentation -- Codes for=0A= the representation of names of scripts", January 2004.=0A= =0A= [ISO3166-1]=0A= International Organization for Standardization, "ISO 3166:=0A= 1988. Codes for the representation of names of countries,=0A= 3rd edition", August 1988.=0A= =0A= [ISO639-1]=0A= International Organization for Standardization, "ISO 639-=0A= 1:2002. Codes for the representation of names of=0A= languages -- Part 1: Alpha-2 code", 2002.=0A= =0A= [ISO639-2]=0A= International Organization for Standardization, "ISO 639-=0A= 2:1998. Codes for the representation of names of=0A= languages -- Part 2: Alpha-3 code, first edition", 1998.=0A= =0A= [RFC1766] Alvestrand, H., "Tags for the Identification of=0A= Languages", RFC 1766, March 1995.=0A= =0A= [RFC3066] Alvestrand, H., "Tags for the Identification of=0A= Languages", BCP 47, RFC 3066, January 2001.=0A= =0A= [UN_M.49] Statistics Division, United Nations, "Standard Country or=0A= Area Codes for Statistical Use", UN Standard Country or=0A= Area Codes for Statistical Use, Revision 4 (United Nations=0A= publication, Sales No. 98.XVII.9, June 1999.=0A= =0A= [record-jar]=0A= Raymond, E., "The Art of Unix Programming", 2003.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 116]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Author's Address=0A= =0A= Doug Ewell (editor)=0A= =0A= Email: dewell@adelphia.net=0A= URI: http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 117]=0A= =0C=0A= Internet-Draft Initial Language Subtag Registry October 2005=0A= =0A= =0A= Intellectual Property Statement=0A= =0A= The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any=0A= Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to=0A= pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in=0A= this document or the extent to which any license under such rights=0A= might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has=0A= made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information=0A= on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be=0A= found in BCP 78 and BCP 79.=0A= =0A= Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any=0A= assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an=0A= attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of=0A= such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this=0A= specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at=0A= http://www.ietf.org/ipr.=0A= =0A= The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any=0A= copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary=0A= rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement=0A= this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at=0A= ietf-ipr@ietf.org.=0A= =0A= =0A= Disclaimer of Validity=0A= =0A= This document and the information contained herein are provided on an=0A= "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS=0A= OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET=0A= ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,=0A= INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE=0A= INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED=0A= WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.=0A= =0A= =0A= Copyright Statement=0A= =0A= Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2005). This document is subject=0A= to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and=0A= except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.=0A= =0A= =0A= Acknowledgment=0A= =0A= Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the=0A= Internet Society.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Ewell Expires April 19, 2006 [Page 118]=0A= =0C=0A= =0A= ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C5D2B1.2EE178E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C5D2B1.2EE178E0-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 17 10:19:24 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERVpk-0003O1-4x; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:19:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERVph-0003MU-Vk for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:19:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15081 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([158.38.152.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERW12-0007XR-FD for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:31:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AA1258080; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:18:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22914-02; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:18:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from halvestr-w2k02.emea.cisco.com (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11352258082; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:18:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:11:14 +0200 From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand To: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003501c5d142$9774fb40$030aa8c0@DEWELL> References: <003501c5d142$9774fb40$030aa8c0@DEWELL> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.3 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1167762829==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1167762829== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========1741B05B867DCFD89510==========" --==========1741B05B867DCFD89510========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --On 14. oktober 2005 21:40 -0700 Doug Ewell wrote: > I note that RFC 3066 specifies only the following for the location of > its registry: "The IANA registration forms for registered language > codes can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under > 'languages'." The exact URI is not given, probably for the reasons of > maintainability that Ted mentioned.. It's a long time ago now, but I think that IANA was unable to commit to a=20 specific URI at the time..... I was also feeling slightly burned by the=20 fact that the URI from RFC 1766 had stopped working; RFC 1766 had: All registered forms are available online in the directory ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/languages/ if someone wants to dream about permanent identifiers for the beasts, we=20 have some tradition for registering URN schemes that can be resolved to=20 IANA resources...... but let's not do that now..... Harald --==========1741B05B867DCFD89510========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQFDU7ECOMj+2+WY0F4RAuM6AKC9ZLWjNS2ePA3BWpOz726PD5z6HACfd7jI aVCS5b/753mYBpuVYugAJYM= =6ZNf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========1741B05B867DCFD89510==========-- --===============1167762829== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1167762829==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 17 11:20:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERWnA-0001lI-Tb; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:20:48 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERWn7-0001lA-SA for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:20:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19020 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERWyO-00017x-LC for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:32:26 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.200]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:20:23 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:20:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:20:21 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 ready...) Thread-Index: AcXTJeEsUGl8AjwDQi+Hq8bsQK8GmQAB5/gg From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Harald Tveit Alvestrand" , "Doug Ewell" , "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2005 15:20:23.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[4B1411D0:01C5D32E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org The only thing one can really say in response to this is: http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI But what's done is done. And draft-06 is done. Addison Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Harald Tveit Alvestrand > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:11 PM > To: Doug Ewell; LTRU Working Group > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: Update ltru-initial-05 (was RE: Draft-14 = ready...) >=20 >=20 >=20 > --On 14. oktober 2005 21:40 -0700 Doug Ewell = wrote: >=20 > > I note that RFC 3066 specifies only the following for the location = of > > its registry: "The IANA registration forms for registered language > > codes can be found at http://www.iana.org/numbers.html under > > 'languages'." The exact URI is not given, probably for the reasons = of > > maintainability that Ted mentioned.. >=20 > It's a long time ago now, but I think that IANA was unable to commit = to a > specific URI at the time..... I was also feeling slightly burned by = the > fact that the URI from RFC 1766 had stopped working; RFC 1766 had: >=20 > All registered forms are available online in the directory > ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/languages/ >=20 > if someone wants to dream about permanent identifiers for the beasts, = we > have some tradition for registering URN schemes that can be resolved = to > IANA resources...... but let's not do that now..... >=20 > Harald _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 17 12:37:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERXz7-00048P-H5; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:37:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERXz5-00048E-VJ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:37:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA23007 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out.google.com ([216.239.45.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERYAR-0003HM-97 for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:48:56 -0400 Received: from chris.corp.google.com (chris.corp.google.com [172.24.0.146]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id j9HGb6bZ022317 for ; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:37:06 -0700 Received: from [172.24.89.156] (evdp.corp.google.com [172.24.89.156]) by chris.corp.google.com with ESMTP id j9HGav7x020066; Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:36:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4353D329.1080404@google.com> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:36:57 -0700 From: Erik van der Poel User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ltru@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hello everybody, This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example starts with Hant and then has Latn in the following lines: Tag to truncate: zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 4. zh-Latn-CN 5. zh-Latn Regards, Erik van der Poel _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 00:22:57 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERj05-0001LW-AO; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:22:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERj03-0001LO-JU for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:22:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01315 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.251.194]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERjBT-0007cx-IO for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:34:45 -0400 Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw1.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id j9I4M6u00044; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:22:06 +0900 (JST) Received: from nodnsquery(133.2.210.1) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via csmap id c1033516_3f8e_11da_87f3_00304811fd80_7132; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:22:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from EBOSHIIWA.it.aoyama.ac.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9I4L265001091; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:21:29 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20051018131727.04888890@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:20:50 +0900 To: Erik van der Poel , ltru@ietf.org From: Martin Duerst Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry In-Reply-To: <4353D329.1080404@google.com> References: <4353D329.1080404@google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hello Eric, Great catch! I think that this is a small oversight. I seem to remember proposing to change "Hant" to "Latn" to make sure it fits better with x-wadegile (Wade-Giles is a well-known romanization for Chinese). Apparently, when this was implemented, the first one was forgotten. Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being published). Regards, Martin. At 01:36 05/10/18, Erik van der Poel wrote: >Hello everybody, > >This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example starts with Hant and then has Latn in the following lines: > > Tag to truncate: zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile > 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 > 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 > 4. zh-Latn-CN > 5. zh-Latn > >Regards, > >Erik van der Poel > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 00:28:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERj5B-0002c6-Fi; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:28:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERj59-0002bu-Q0 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:28:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01472 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvbhxw03.quest.com ([12.106.87.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERjGZ-0007k2-GP for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:40:00 -0400 Received: from irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.203]) by irvbhxw03.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:53 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by irvmbxw02.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:53 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:27:51 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Thread-Index: AcXTm7w4PMndbHLWSfSf7hXiXZwsdgAAEZug From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Martin Duerst" , "Erik van der Poel" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2005 04:27:53.0275 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E5920B0:01C5D39C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org It is a good catch. I've corrected my editor's copy and made this the = first (and hopefully last) item in my list for AUTH48. Addison (from ??????) Addison P. Phillips Globalization Architect, Quest Software Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Martin Duerst > Sent: 2005?10?18? 8:21 > To: Erik van der Poel; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry >=20 > Hello Eric, >=20 > Great catch! >=20 > I think that this is a small oversight. I seem to remember > proposing to change "Hant" to "Latn" to make sure it > fits better with x-wadegile (Wade-Giles is a well-known > romanization for Chinese). Apparently, when this was > implemented, the first one was forgotten. >=20 > Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, > and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then > have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's > AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being > published). >=20 > Regards, Martin. >=20 > At 01:36 05/10/18, Erik van der Poel wrote: > >Hello everybody, > > > >This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example starts with = Hant > and then has Latn in the following lines: > > > > Tag to truncate: = zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > > 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile > > 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 > > 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 > > 4. zh-Latn-CN > > 5. zh-Latn > > > >Regards, > > > >Erik van der Poel > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ltru mailing list > >Ltru@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 01:22:23 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERjvb-0002me-2C; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:22:23 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERjvX-0002mA-EH for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:22:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA04371 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERk70-0000jA-MH for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:34:10 -0400 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9I5Lu3Y021180 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:21:56 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (d01av01.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.215]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9I5LuEJ088486 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:21:56 -0400 Received: from d01av01.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9I5Lupq008723 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:21:56 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-120-230.mts.ibm.com [9.48.120.230]) by d01av01.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9I5LqI7008586; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:21:55 -0400 Message-ID: <4354866E.1010304@icu-project.org> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:21:50 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Addison Phillips Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org So no disagreement from the authors! Mark Addison Phillips wrote: >It is a good catch. I've corrected my editor's copy and made this the first (and hopefully last) item in my list for AUTH48. > >Addison (from ??????) > >Addison P. Phillips >Globalization Architect, Quest Software >Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > >Internationalization is not a feature. >It is an architecture. > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Martin Duerst >>Sent: 2005?10?18? 8:21 >>To: Erik van der Poel; ltru@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry >> >>Hello Eric, >> >>Great catch! >> >>I think that this is a small oversight. I seem to remember >>proposing to change "Hant" to "Latn" to make sure it >>fits better with x-wadegile (Wade-Giles is a well-known >>romanization for Chinese). Apparently, when this was >>implemented, the first one was forgotten. >> >>Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, >>and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then >>have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's >>AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being >>published). >> >>Regards, Martin. >> >>At 01:36 05/10/18, Erik van der Poel wrote: >> >Hello everybody, >> > >> >This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example starts with Hant >>and then has Latn in the following lines: >> > >> > Tag to truncate: zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 >> > 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile >> > 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 >> > 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 >> > 4. zh-Latn-CN >> > 5. zh-Latn >> > >> >Regards, >> > >> >Erik van der Poel >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Ltru mailing list >> >Ltru@ietf.org >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Ltru mailing list >>Ltru@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 07:30:43 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERpg2-0002nH-Rt; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:42 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERpfz-0002mr-D9 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA22806 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERprU-0001rF-VD for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:42:34 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:33 -0400 id 005D0193.4354DCD9.000066E1 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Addison Phillips'" , "'Martin Duerst'" , "'Erik van der Poel'" , ltru@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:30:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcXTm7w4PMndbHLWSfSf7hXiXZwsdgAAEZugAA7JBDA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I can also put a note to the RFC Editor in the ballot write up to tell the RFC Editor to make the change directly. I'll do that if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. -Scott- > -----Original Message----- > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:28 AM > To: Martin Duerst; Erik van der Poel; ltru@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry > > It is a good catch. I've corrected my editor's copy and made > this the first (and hopefully last) item in my list for AUTH48. > > Addison (from ??????) > > Addison P. Phillips > Globalization Architect, Quest Software > Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group > > Internationalization is not a feature. > It is an architecture. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of > > Martin Duerst > > Sent: 2005?10?18? 8:21 > > To: Erik van der Poel; ltru@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry > > > > Hello Eric, > > > > Great catch! > > > > I think that this is a small oversight. I seem to remember > > proposing to change "Hant" to "Latn" to make sure it > > fits better with x-wadegile (Wade-Giles is a well-known > > romanization for Chinese). Apparently, when this was > > implemented, the first one was forgotten. > > > > Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, > > and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then > > have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's > > AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being > > published). > > > > Regards, Martin. > > > > At 01:36 05/10/18, Erik van der Poel wrote: > > >Hello everybody, > > > > > >This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example > starts with Hant > > and then has Latn in the following lines: > > > > > > Tag to truncate: > zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > > > 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile > > > 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 > > > 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 > > > 4. zh-Latn-CN > > > 5. zh-Latn > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Erik van der Poel > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Ltru mailing list > > >Ltru@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 10:52:43 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERspW-0006jt-VP; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:52:42 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERspU-0006jd-I2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:52:40 -0400 Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05508 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051018145208.PYCA16334.mta10.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:52:08 -0400 Message-ID: <00d401c5d3f2$fab46580$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:48:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Martin Duerst wrote: > Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, > and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then > have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's > AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being > published). I have no objection. -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 11:06:15 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERt2d-00032M-1V; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:06:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERt2a-00031g-Sf for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:06:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08176 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from suomi.kotus.fi ([193.166.18.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERtE7-0000VV-4F for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:18:09 -0400 Received: from kotus.fi (pc163.kotus.fi [193.166.18.163]) by suomi.kotus.fi (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j9IF603h007019; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:06:00 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <43550F5D.80900@kotus.fi> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:06:05 +0300 From: Erkki Kolehmainen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: fi, en-us, sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry References: <00d401c5d3f2$fab46580$030aa8c0@DEWELL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: LTRU Working Group X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Neither do I. Erkki I. Kolehmainen Doug Ewell wrote: > Martin Duerst wrote: > > >>Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, >>and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then >>have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's >>AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being >>published). >> > > I have no objection. > > -- > Doug Ewell > Fullerton, California > http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 12:46:55 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERuby-0002Mv-5I; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:46:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERubw-0002Mq-LT for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:46:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13809 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERunU-00037y-KH for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:58:45 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1ERubq-0003je-Tz for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:46:43 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051018184615.0486e3e0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:46:36 +0200 To: "LTRU Working Group" From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On 06:20 18/10/2005, Martin Duerst said: >I think that this is a small oversight. I seem to remember >proposing to change "Hant" to "Latn" to make sure it >fits better with x-wadegile (Wade-Giles is a well-known >romanization for Chinese). Apparently, when this was >implemented, the first one was forgotten. > >Procedurally, I'd like to see confirmation from the authors, >and make sure that nobody from the WG objects, and then >have the authors make this change in the RFC Editor's >AUTH48 period (i.e. shortly before the RFC is being >published). Just a minute! Please precisely dociment what is wrong in the current text? I am perfectly entitled to consider "x-wadegile" as indicating the language stratagems used by Senator Wade to make his Manifesto (with another Davis) accepted by the Congress. A mix of 19th century Washingtonian and local Ohio images, parabols and syllogisms. I know this looks absurd, but should I understand that "x-" privatuse content may be the reason why a script subtag is predetermined? I have nothing against it, but this is a subnamespace leak and a change in concept. Now it is brought-up, the response will be important, as it may be a strong argument for my "platform". Thank you Eric. jfc At 01:36 05/10/18, Erik van der Poel wrote: > >Hello everybody, > > > >This is just a minor issue, but the truncation example starts with > Hant and then has Latn in the following lines: > > > > Tag to truncate: zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > > 1. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile > > 2. zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1 > > 3. zh-Latn-CN-variant1 > > 4. zh-Latn-CN > > 5. zh-Latn > > > >Regards, > > > >Erik van der Poel > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ltru mailing list > >Ltru@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 13:01:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERuqT-00066b-2w; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:01:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERuqO-00063e-F2 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:01:47 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14822 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ERuoB-0003pv-36 for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:59:27 +0200 Received: from c-180-161-15.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.161.15]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:59:27 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-161-15.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:59:27 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:57:00 +0200 Organization: Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-161-15.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Scott Hollenbeck wrote: > if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. | RFC editor note: | Please replace zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 | by zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 on | page 43 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 in chapter 4.3.2 for | consistency with the immediately following zh-Latn truncation | example on the same page. This typo was found after the IESG | evaluation and confirmed by the authors. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 15:51:03 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERxUF-00076N-0r; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:51:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ERxTK-0006sH-Gd; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:50:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24415; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ERxes-0000BA-2U; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:02:03 -0400 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ERxTG-0001an-9l; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:50:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Language Tag Registry Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : Tags for Identifying Languages Author(s) : A. Phillips, M. Davis Filename : draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt Pages : 62 Date : 2005-10-18 This document describes the structure, content, construction, and semantics of language tags for use in cases where it is desirable to indicate the language used in an information object. It also describes how to register values for use in language tags and the creation of user defined extensions for private interchange. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-18124447.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-18124447.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --NextPart-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 22:28:59 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES3hL-0007Ex-CH; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:28:59 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES3hJ-0007Eq-Q6 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:28:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14087 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ES3sx-0003LD-9S for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:41:00 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1ES3hC-0004cw-FJ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:28:50 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051019041410.04fd9eb0@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:28:44 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry In-Reply-To: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id WAA14087 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 18:57 18/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >Scott Hollenbeck wrote: > > if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. > >| RFC editor note: >| Please replace zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 >| by zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 on >| page 43 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 in chapter 4.3.2 for >| consistency with the immediately following zh-Latn truncation >| example on the same page. This typo was found after the IESG >| evaluation and confirmed by the authors. Since there is no response to my comment: 1. consensus is requested: I oppose. 2. This example may not be the best. But it is the only one in the=20 document showing the orthoginality between the registered subtags and=20 the privateuse area, and the possibility to have a private scheme=20 with a default. In this example: private1 makes x-wadegile is related=20 to Hant, while the defult (without private1) is related to Latn. This example is correct. Even if it may not be ideal and considered=20 as "politcially incorrect", in reference to Harald's mail of apology=20 on the privateuse area. No problem in changing it, however: if an example is added which=20 documents the privateuse orthogonalit=E9/default permitted by the Documen= t.. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 22:36:15 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES3oN-0002Ec-E7; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:36:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES3oM-0002DN-Cq for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:36:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14414 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ES401-0003Vp-2R for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:48:17 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-2-93.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.2.93] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ES3oL-00062y-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:36:13 -0400 Message-ID: <02a201c5d456$60cab320$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:39:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Frank Ellermann" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:57 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry > > Scott Hollenbeck wrote: > > > if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. > > | RFC editor note: > | Please replace zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > | by zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 on > | page 43 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 in chapter 4.3.2 for > | consistency with the immediately following zh-Latn truncation > | example on the same page. This typo was found after the IESG > | evaluation and confirmed by the authors. > > Bye, Frank This looks good to me, both as a technical contributor and as co-chair. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 22:59:32 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES4Au-0003N4-DF; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES4At-0003Mz-O7 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA15343 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.61]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ES4MY-0003zm-Hl for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:11:34 -0400 Received: from h-68-165-2-93.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.165.2.93] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ES4As-0003vV-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <02b101c5d459$a1304440$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> <6.2.3.4.2.20051019041410.04fd9eb0@mail.afrac.org> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:03:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id WAA15343 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "r&d afrac" > To: "Frank Ellermann" ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry > > At 18:57 18/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: > >Scott Hollenbeck wrote: > > > if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. > > > >| RFC editor note: > >| Please replace zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > >| by zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 on > >| page 43 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 in chapter 4.3.2 for > >| consistency with the immediately following zh-Latn truncation > >| example on the same page. This typo was found after the IESG > >| evaluation and confirmed by the authors. > > Since there is no response to my comment: > > 1. consensus is requested: I oppose. As co-chair: We do not need WG consensus to correct an obvious (once spotted!) typo in an example. If you object to the decision to correct this typo, please feel free to appeal to the AD, etc. > 2. This example may not be the best. But it is the only one in the > document showing the orthoginality between the registered subtags and > the privateuse area, and the possibility to have a private scheme > with a default. In this example: private1 makes x-wadegile is related > to Hant, while the defult (without private1) is related to Latn. As technical contributor: That is not the purpose of the example. Anyone familiar with romanization schemes for Chinese will find your interpretation highly implausible. > This example is correct. Even if it may not be ideal and considered > as "politcially incorrect", in reference to Harald's mail of apology > on the privateuse area. > > No problem in changing it, however: if an example is added which > documents the privateuse orthogonalit=E9/default permitted by the Docum= ent.. > jfc As co-chair: at this stage of the process, adding new material would be inappropriate. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 18 23:58:13 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES55g-00033k-JC; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:58:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES55e-0002yt-MI for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:58:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA17809 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.143]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ES5HI-0005M2-Vz for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:10:14 -0400 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9J3vsi1030617 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:54 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9J3vsCc122412 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:54 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9J3vrEv013491 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:54 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-107-212.mts.ibm.com [9.48.107.212]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9J3vqQw013470; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:57:53 -0400 Message-ID: <4355C43E.80305@icu-project.org> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:57:50 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry References: <4355295C.1229@xyzzy.claranet.de> <02a201c5d456$60cab320$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <02a201c5d456$60cab320$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I agree. Randy Presuhn wrote: >Hi - > > > >>From: "Frank Ellermann" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:57 AM >>Subject: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry >> >>Scott Hollenbeck wrote: >> >> >> >>>if someone can provide an "OLD" vs. "NEW" summary. >>> >>> >>| RFC editor note: >>| Please replace zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 >>| by zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 on >>| page 43 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry-14 in chapter 4.3.2 for >>| consistency with the immediately following zh-Latn truncation >>| example on the same page. This typo was found after the IESG >>| evaluation and confirmed by the authors. >> >> Bye, Frank >> >> > >This looks good to me, both as a technical contributor and as co-chair. > >Randy > > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 00:31:28 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES5bs-0000fe-6o; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:31:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES5bq-0000fT-84 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:31:26 -0400 Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19095 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DEWELL ([68.66.2.217]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20051019043054.SLPS16334.mta10.adelphia.net@DEWELL> for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:30:54 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c5d465$cd9979a0$030aa8c0@DEWELL> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:30:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: >> 2. This example may not be the best. But it is the only one in the >> document showing the orthoginality between the registered subtags and >> the privateuse area, and the possibility to have a private scheme >> with a default. In this example: private1 makes x-wadegile is related >> to Hant, while the defult (without private1) is related to Latn. > > As technical contributor: > > That is not the purpose of the example. Anyone familiar with > romanization schemes for Chinese will find your interpretation highly > implausible. It's not even that. The error in question has nothing to do with using "x-wadegile" together with "zh-Hans". It has to do with the fact that the lines which follow use "zh-Latn" instead, which breaks the illustration of how truncation works. -- Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 00:39:48 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES5jw-0004sr-IA; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:39:48 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ES5ju-0004qv-HB for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:39:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA19584 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from irvmbxw02.quest.com ([12.106.87.68] helo=irvbhxw02.quest.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ES5vU-0006Hl-Sg for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:51:48 -0400 Received: from IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.2.202]) by irvbhxw02.quest.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:39:23 -0700 Received: from alvmbxw01.prod.quest.corp ([10.1.50.13]) by IRVPFXW01.prod.quest.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:39:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:39:21 -0700 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Re: draft-14 of draft-ietf-ltru-registry Thread-Index: AcXUZl9tH0ZRdApjRMSO/YGSytk2FgAALIvQ From: "Addison Phillips" To: "Doug Ewell" , "LTRU Working Group" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 04:39:23.0643 (UTC) FILETIME=[1440ACB0:01C5D467] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0688076766==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0688076766== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KzENCg0KQWRkaXNvbiBQLiBQaGlsbGlwcw0KR2xvYmFsaXphdGlvbiBBcmNoaXRlY3QsIFF1ZXN0 IFNvZnR3YXJlDQpDaGFpciwgVzNDIEludGVybmF0aW9uYWxpemF0aW9uIENvcmUgV29ya2luZyBH cm91cA0KDQpJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBpcyBub3QgYSBmZWF0dXJlLg0KSXQgaXMgYW4g YXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlLiANCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBs dHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzpsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJl aGFsZiBPZg0KPiBEb3VnIEV3ZWxsDQo+IFNlbnQ6IDIwMDXlubQxMOaciDE55pelIDg6MzANCj4g VG86IExUUlUgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cA0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbTHRydV0gUmU6IGRyYWZ0LTE0IG9m IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbHRydS1yZWdpc3RyeQ0KPiANCj4gUmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiA8cmFuZHkgdW5k ZXJzY29yZSBwcmVzdWhuIGF0IG1pbmRzcHJpbmcgZG90IGNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiA+PiAy LiBUaGlzIGV4YW1wbGUgbWF5IG5vdCBiZSB0aGUgYmVzdC4gQnV0IGl0IGlzIHRoZSBvbmx5IG9u ZSBpbiB0aGUNCj4gPj4gZG9jdW1lbnQgc2hvd2luZyB0aGUgb3J0aG9naW5hbGl0eSBiZXR3ZWVu IHRoZSByZWdpc3RlcmVkIHN1YnRhZ3MgYW5kDQo+ID4+IHRoZSBwcml2YXRldXNlIGFyZWEsIGFu ZCB0aGUgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIHByaXZhdGUgc2NoZW1lDQo+ID4+IHdpdGggYSBk ZWZhdWx0LiBJbiB0aGlzIGV4YW1wbGU6IHByaXZhdGUxIG1ha2VzIHgtd2FkZWdpbGUgaXMgcmVs YXRlZA0KPiA+PiB0byBIYW50LCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgZGVmdWx0ICh3aXRob3V0IHByaXZhdGUxKSBp cyByZWxhdGVkIHRvIExhdG4uDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBBcyB0ZWNobmljYWwgY29udHJpYnV0b3I6DQo+ ID4NCj4gPiBUaGF0IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiB0aGUgZXhhbXBsZS4gQW55b25lIGZh bWlsaWFyIHdpdGgNCj4gPiByb21hbml6YXRpb24gc2NoZW1lcyBmb3IgQ2hpbmVzZSB3aWxsIGZp bmQgeW91ciBpbnRlcnByZXRhdGlvbiBoaWdobHkNCj4gPiBpbXBsYXVzaWJsZS4NCj4gDQo+IEl0 J3Mgbm90IGV2ZW4gdGhhdC4gIFRoZSBlcnJvciBpbiBxdWVzdGlvbiBoYXMgbm90aGluZyB0byBk byB3aXRoIHVzaW5nDQo+ICJ4LXdhZGVnaWxlIiB0b2dldGhlciB3aXRoICJ6aC1IYW5zIi4gIEl0 IGhhcyB0byBkbyB3aXRoIHRoZSBmYWN0IHRoYXQNCj4gdGhlIGxpbmVzIHdoaWNoIGZvbGxvdyB1 c2UgInpoLUxhdG4iIGluc3RlYWQsIHdoaWNoIGJyZWFrcyB0aGUNCj4gaWxsdXN0cmF0aW9uIG9m IGhvdyB0cnVuY2F0aW9uIHdvcmtzLg0KPiANCj4gLS0NCj4gRG91ZyBFd2VsbA0KPiBGdWxsZXJ0 b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWENCj4gaHR0cDovL3VzZXJzLmFkZWxwaGlhLm5ldC9+ZGV3ZWxsLw0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KPiBMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3MS5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUNCg== --===============0688076766== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0688076766==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 14:02:51 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESIH5-0003fT-3R; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:02:51 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESIH3-0003fO-7T for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:02:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02557 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lonsmimeo.rit.reuters.com ([192.165.213.23] helo=lonsmime04.rit.reuters.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESISo-0003A6-Qh for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:15:00 -0400 Received: from eupig1 (unverified [196.7.183.8]) by lonsmime04.rit.reuters.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.19) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:02:33 +0000 Message-ID: Received: from lonsmsxb01.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.6]) by eupig1.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #30693) with ESMTP id <0IOM00C35CS99F@eupig1.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com> for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:02:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LONSMSXM06.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.22]) by lonsmsxb01.emea.ime.reuters.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC (6.0.3790.0); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:02:34 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:02:59 +0100 From: Misha Wolf To: ltru@ietf.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: Desperately seeking a persistent URI for RFC 1766, 3066, xx66, yy66, zz66 ... Thread-Index: AcXU11dPZNvrkF8JQtuOPdWApNOD3w== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 18:02:34.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[486FA2A0:01C5D4D7] X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ltru] Desperately seeking a persistent URI for RFC 1766, 3066, xx66, yy66, zz66 ... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I'm the editor of the News Metadata Framework Technical=20 Specification, being developed by the International Press=20 Telecommunications Council (IPTC). For our work, we need a=20 persistent URI for RFC 1766, 3066, xx66, yy66, zz66 ... I had the idea of using a BCP 47 URI. When I googled for=20 BCP 47, I found lots of hits, but: - Many of them link to pages which simply list the BCPs=20 but do not provide anything I could use as a persistent=20 URI of the BCP. - Looking at those that do provide a URI[1], I'm unclear=20 which are likely to persist. I would very much appreciate help with this quest! [1] eg http://rfc.net/bcp0047.html Thanks, Misha ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com To find out more about Reuters Products and Services visit http://www.reute= rs.com/productinfo=20 Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 14:37:27 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESIoZ-00036m-NK; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESIoY-00033G-Ax for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05710 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [65.246.141.36] (helo=mail.reutershealth.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESJ0K-0004eY-9y for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:49:37 -0400 Received: from skunk.reutershealth.com (mail [65.246.141.36]) by mail.reutershealth.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id j9JIbB3T015248; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by skunk.reutershealth.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:37:08 -0400 From: "John.Cowan" To: Misha Wolf Subject: Re: [Ltru] Desperately seeking a persistent URI for RFC 1766, 3066, xx66, yy66, zz66 ... Message-ID: <20051019183708.GC12148@NYCMJCOWA2> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: ltru@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Misha Wolf scripsit: > I had the idea of using a BCP 47 URI. The formal URI for BCP 47 is "urn:ietf:bcp:47", in accordance with RFC 2648. The URL for BCP 47 in the RFC Editor's master repository of RFCs is "ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/bcp/bcp47.txt". The historically most stable URL is "ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/bcp/bcp47.txt". -- Why are well-meaning Westerners so concerned that John Cowan the opening of a Colonel Sanders in Beijing means jcowan@reutershealth.com the end of Chinese culture? [...] We have had http://www.reutershealth.com Chinese restaurants in America for over a century, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan and it hasn't made us Chinese. On the contrary, we obliged the Chinese to invent chop suey. --Marshall Sahlins _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 16:25:03 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESKUW-00052T-SG; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:24:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESKUV-00052F-RJ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:24:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21363 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.70]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESKgH-0002rU-IC for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:37:03 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-136-185.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.136.185] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ESKUD-0000zK-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:24:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c5d4eb$a0a07300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:28:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Additional delay for registry document X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - I just got word that the decision to correct the typo |OLD: |zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 | |NEW: |zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 was appealed to the AD. The AD denied the appeal. This was in turn appealed to the IESG. The registry document will be held up until the IESG is able to review the decision to correct the typo. In the meantime, I suggest that the WG devote its energy to completing the work on matching. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 18:50:37 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESMlZ-0007UU-K5; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:50:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESMl3-00078c-DF; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:50:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10564; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESMwp-0002b5-Fh; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:02:16 -0400 Received: from mlee by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ESMkz-0003Bx-Gs; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:50:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Language Tag Registry Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : Initial Language Subtag Registry Author(s) : D. Ewell Filename : draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt Pages : 118 Date : 2005-10-19 This memo defines the initial contents of the IANA Language Subtag Registry for use in forming tags for the identification of languages. Since the contents of this memo only serve as a starting point for the registry, it is inappropriate to use this memo in lieu of the registry. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-19161146.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ltru-initial-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-10-19161146.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --NextPart-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 20:04:54 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESNvS-0002ki-0o; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:04:54 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESNvR-0002kd-3o for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:04:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA26920 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESO7E-0000RE-S5 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:17:07 -0400 Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K04aip010720 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:04:36 -0400 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (d03av03.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.169]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9K04ZLk527882 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:04:36 -0600 Received: from d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9K04ZFx029014 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:04:35 -0600 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-111-28.mts.ibm.com [9.48.111.28]) by d03av03.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9K04YvI028977; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:04:35 -0600 Message-ID: <4356DF10.1090904@icu-project.org> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:04:32 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn Subject: Re: [Ltru] Additional delay for registry document References: <000901c5d4eb$a0a07300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <000901c5d4eb$a0a07300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: LTRU Working Group X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > In the meantime, I suggest that the WG devote its energy to completing the work on matching. People keep saying that. As far as I'm concerned, we are done. What is the hold-up? Who is waiting on what? Mark Randy Presuhn wrote: >Hi - > >I just got word that the decision to correct the typo > >|OLD: >|zh-Hant-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 >| >|NEW: >|zh-Latn-CN-variant1-a-extend1-x-wadegile-private1 > >was appealed to the AD. The AD denied the appeal. >This was in turn appealed to the IESG. The registry >document will be held up until the IESG is able to >review the decision to correct the typo. > >In the meantime, I suggest that the WG devote its energy >to completing the work on matching. > >Randy, ltru co-chair > > > >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 19 20:31:31 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESOLD-0007oB-IA; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:31:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESOLB-0007nv-OZ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:31:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA28664 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESOX1-0001It-Kl for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:43:43 -0400 Received: from h-64-105-136-134.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([64.105.136.134] helo=oemcomputer) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ESOL6-0000CB-00 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:31:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c5d50e$197e6760$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <000901c5d4eb$a0a07300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> <4356DF10.1090904@icu-project.org> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Additional delay for registry document Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:34:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Additional delay for registry document > > > In the meantime, I suggest that the WG devote its energy > to completing the work on matching. > > People keep saying that. As far as I'm concerned, we are done. > What is the hold-up? Who is waiting on what? ... Martin is tracking the issues for this document. When he's satisfied that the document is sufficiently stable, he'll be the one to issue the WG last call. Randy, ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 20 15:37:12 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESgDw-0005Ak-26; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:37:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESgDk-0004zi-QL for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:37:11 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA09184 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ESgAd-0004mY-1B for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:33:47 +0200 Received: from 212.82.251.238 ([212.82.251.238]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:33:47 +0200 Received: from nobody by 212.82.251.238 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:33:47 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:31:05 +0200 Organization: Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4357F079.7984@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <000901c5d4eb$a0a07300$7f1afea9@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.82.251.238 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: Additional delay for registry document X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > The registry document will be held up until the IESG > is able to review the decision to correct the typo. Now 2+9 : 0+0, Bill cleared his ABNF [Discuss] today. Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 21 14:01:17 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ET1Ce-0004BX-Vs; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ET1Cc-0004A3-SA for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:15 -0400 Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com (e4.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.144]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21952 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LI0ggZ014247 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:00:42 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (d01av03.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.217]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j9LI0fwQ119660 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:00:42 -0400 Received: from d01av03.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9LI0fVK004638 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:00:41 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (sig-9-48-107-173.mts.ibm.com [9.48.107.173]) by d01av03.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j9LI0exp004482; Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:00:41 -0400 Message-ID: <43592CC6.5040808@icu-project.org> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:00:38 -0700 From: Mark Davis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LTRU Working Group , ietf-languages@iana.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [Ltru] [Fwd: Next Unicode Conference] X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org BTW, language tags and related topics will definitely be of interest at the next Unicode conference, so I thought I would forward the following. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Next Unicode Conference The Unicode Consortium is revamping the Unicode conferences, starting with the upcoming one in March. We have a new conference provider (OMG), and plan to provide for much more useful and informative presentations, and better venues for technical networking. For those of you involved in areas that would be of interest to others, whether it is the latest in data mining or web services, or successful techniques in migrating applications, or snazzy new features of your products, I'd encourage you to send in an abstract for this conference. There is also more flexibility now as far as presentations. Papers are not required, and we encourage interactive demonstrations. Proposals for interactive panel discussions and BOF (Birds-of-a-Feather) meetings on particular topics, like a francophone session, are also welcome. The due date for abstracts is Oct 31, so please send in your ideas by then. (http://www.unicodeconference.org/) Mark _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 25 23:56:14 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUcOb-0001Jj-RA; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:56:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUcAx-0001ol-Fs for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:42:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18803 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUcO0-0000Yz-SJ for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:55:39 -0400 Received: from ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net ([82.241.91.24] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EUcAt-0008V1-Qd for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:42:04 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051026053839.03d4a7d0@mail.jefsey.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 05:41:54 +0200 To: "LTRU Working Group" From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" In-Reply-To: <200510252344.j9PNi7L28837@boreas.isi.edu> References: <200510252344.j9PNi7L28837@boreas.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:56:13 -0400 Subject: [Ltru] Re: RFC 4151 on The 'tag' URI Scheme X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org The "0-" userspace URI-tag RFC 4151 is now published. jfc At 01:44 26/10/2005, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote: >A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4151 > > Title: The 'tag' URI Scheme > Author(s): T. Kindberg, S. Hawke > Status: Informational > Date: October 2005 > Mailbox: timothy@hpl.hp.com, sandro@w3.org > Pages: 11 > Characters: 22555 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-kindberg-tag-uri-07.txt > > URL: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc4151.txt > > >This document describes the "tag" Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) >scheme. Tag URIs (also known as "tags") are designed to be unique >across space and time while being tractable to humans. They are >distinct from most other URIs in that they have no authoritative >resolution mechanism. A tag may be used purely as an entity >identifier. Furthermore, using tags has some advantages over the >common practice of using "http" URIs as identifiers for >non-HTTP-accessible resources. > >This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does >not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this >memo is unlimited. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 26 16:28:28 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUrgj-0002YI-7o; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:15:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUrgh-0002XA-4r for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:15:55 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27353 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EUrbx-0004Pk-5j for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:11:01 +0200 Received: from c-180-160-229.hh.dial.de.ignite.net ([62.180.160.229]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:11:01 +0200 Received: from nobody by c-180-160-229.hh.dial.de.ignite.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:11:01 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:07:36 +0200 Organization: Lines: 6 Message-ID: <435FE208.741C@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <200510252344.j9PNi7L28837@boreas.isi.edu> <6.2.3.4.2.20051026053839.03d4a7d0@mail.jefsey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-180-160-229.hh.dial.de.ignite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: RFC 4151 on The 'tag' URI Scheme X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote: > The "0-" userspace URI-tag RFC 4151 is now published. My first tag. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 26 18:45:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUu1j-0006GX-1b; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:45:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUu1h-0006Ft-PJ for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:45:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02064 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from montage.altserver.com ([63.247.74.122]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUuEw-00088I-Cg for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:59:27 -0400 Received: from i01m-62-35-167-26.d4.club-internet.fr ([62.35.167.26] helo=jfc.afrac.org) by montage.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1EUu1a-0003zm-R6; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:45:39 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20051026232705.03652b70@mail.afrac.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:30:58 +0200 To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@ietf.org From: r&d afrac Subject: Re: [Ltru] Re: RFC 4151 on The 'tag' URI Scheme In-Reply-To: <435FE208.741C@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <200510252344.j9PNi7L28837@boreas.isi.edu> <6.2.3.4.2.20051026053839.03d4a7d0@mail.jefsey.com> <435FE208.741C@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - afrac.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 22:07 26/10/2005, Frank Ellermann wrote: >JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote: > > > The "0-" userspace URI-tag RFC 4151 is now published. > My first tag. This will be usefull in appeal to illustrate the attitude of this WG. jfc _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 31 05:29:33 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWWuz-0003HN-4Q; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:29:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWWuv-0003Gr-Oa for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:29:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27650 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:29:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from lonsmimeo.rit.reuters.com ([192.165.213.23] helo=lonsmime03.rit.reuters.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EWX94-0000Gr-Mb for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 05:44:08 -0500 Received: from uknsprd1 (unverified [129.1.30.40]) by lonsmime03.rit.reuters.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.19) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:29:05 +0000 Received: from lonsmsxb01.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.6]) by eupig2.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com (PMDF V6.2-X17 #30843) with ESMTP id <0IP700GSPZRXJX@eupig2.dtc.lon.ime.reuters.com>; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:28:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LONSMSXM06.emea.ime.reuters.com ([10.14.113.22]) by lonsmsxb01.emea.ime.reuters.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC (6.0.3790.0); Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:28:45 +0000 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:29:14 +0000 From: Misha Wolf To: spec-prod@w3.org, public-ietf-w3c@w3.org, ltru@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: On citation of RFCs / BCPs Thread-Index: AcXd+PKMMhLgoMAXThC52v5h3wpV8AACiVeA Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2005 10:28:45.0209 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF46D090:01C5DE05] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: iptc-metadata@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Ltru] RE: On citation of RFCs / BCPs X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org That (ie via BCP 47) is how I plan to refer to the Language Tags RFC=20 in IPTC Specifications. Note one slight gremlin: the title of the BCP will, presumably, vary=20 with the title of the referenced RFC. For example, the latest ID=20 has the title "Tags for Identifying Languages"[1], while BCP 47=20 currently has the title "Tags for the Identification of Languages",=20 which is the title of RFC 3066. ## A question to the LTRU WG: Is the change of title intentional? ## [1] http://ietfreport.isoc.org/idref/draft-phillips-langtags/ Misha Wolf News Standards Manager, Reuters, www.reuters.com Vice-Chair, News Architecture Working Party, IPTC, www.iptc.org/dev -----Original Message----- From: spec-prod-request@w3.org [mailto:spec-prod-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Felix Sasaki Sent: 31 October 2005 08:56 To: spec-prod@w3.org; public-ietf-w3c@w3.org Subject: On citation of RFCs / BCPs Hi all, As part of my review of EMMA, see http://www.w3.org/International/2005/10/emma-review.html I made a comment on references to BCPs (best common practice) rather than RFCs (Request for comments), see comment 2: RFC 1766 is obsoleted by 3066 (Tags for the Identification of Languages). What is essential here is the reference to a BCP (best common practice), which is for language identification BCP 47. Currenlty bcp 47 is represented by RFC 3066, so could you change the reference to "IETF BCP 47, currently represented by RFC 3066"? The background here is that there are currenlty two rfc numbers for "Tags for the Identification of Languages" (1766, 3066). The draft of rfc 3066bis which has now been approved by the IESG will have a third number. In the i18n core wg, we thought that to avoid the need to update specs which just want to refer to "Tags for the Identification of Languages", we should recommend them to cite BCP 47, which will 'always' have language identification as its topic. Although this originated in the rfc 3066(bis) discussion, I think it is a general question of how to refer to RFCs / BCPs. This disussion started on =20 the w3t-arch list, but Dan Connolly suggested to discuss this also on =20 these lists here. Any comments / opinions? Best, Felix ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com To find out more about Reuters Products and Services visit http://www.reute= rs.com/productinfo=20 Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Reuters Ltd. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 31 06:14:09 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWXc8-0004CV-Uu; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:14:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EWXc7-0004Bw-G7 for ltru@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:14:07 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA29562 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:13:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EWXas-0007xf-GO for ltru@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:12:50 +0100 Received: from pd9fbacb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([217.251.172.180]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:12:50 +0100 Received: from nobody by pd9fbacb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:12:50 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ltru@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:01:28 +0100 Organization: Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4365F988.503E@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9fbacb4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Ltru] Re: On citation of RFCs / BCPs X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Misha Wolf wrote: > Is the change of title intentional? There were discussions about "identification" vs. "helping to identify", but that was about the abstract / intro, not the title. The "new" title reflects this, but I can't say that it was "intentional" (from my personal POV). The new title was already used for the old pre-LTRU 3066bis drafts. >| The draft of rfc 3066bis which has now been approved by >| the IESG will have a third number. Will, yes, approved, not yet, formally: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_comment&id=41198 Bye, Frank _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru